Cheating Red Flags

Summary

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Bill and Giuliana: The Podcast

Episode: Cheating Red Flags
Date: August 6, 2026
Host: Bill and Giuliana Rancic, iHeartPodcasts
Special Guests: Janet Mandel, Stephen Galanis, Kate M., Brad

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Episode Theme:

"Cheating Red Flags" dives deep into the signs, personal stories, and social dilemmas surrounding infidelity. Bill and Giuliana, with a lively panel of friends and experts, unpack the red flags that can signal cheating, debate whether people can change, and discuss how friends should handle knowledge of infidelity in others’ relationships. The episode features frank, sometimes hilarious, sometimes heart-wrenching discussions about trust, insecurity, and what healthy relationships require.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Stories of Cheating & Red Flags

Timestamps: 02:14 – 09:24

• Giuliana’s Story: Giuliana revisits how 22 years ago her ex-boyfriend cheated on her and now recognizes subtle red flags:

  "He would write in his emails, ‘PS, please don't ever cheat on me. Let's not ruin this.’ I thought he was just insecure, but now I realize he was probably projecting." (06:30)

• Stephen’s Red Flag Experience:

  "All of a sudden, my girlfriend couldn’t stay over because she had early Zumba lessons, which turned out to be her excuse to cheat." (09:53)

Key Insight: Cheaters often project their own intentions or guilt, sometimes asking their partner for assurances or planting suspicion to shift blame.

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2. Other Panelists Share “Caught Cheating” Tales

Timestamps: 10:34 – 16:47

• Janet’s Intuition and Detective Mode:

  "I found a tampon in his guest bathroom... then I noticed he skipped inviting me to one of his regular softball games. So I drove by and saw him with another girl. I was in full detective mode." (11:04)

• Janet’s Unique Relationship Story: Despite divorcing after 18 years, Janet and her ex-husband got back together but opted not to remarry, citing better communication and support post-divorce.

  "We’re now best friends; sex got better. The business relationship improved after the pressure of marriage was gone." (16:25)

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3. Cheating Red Flags: The Panel’s Take

Timestamps: 20:27 – 29:15

• Types of Cheating Red Flags:
  • Asking a partner for unusual promises or projecting fears (e.g., "don’t cheat on me!")
  • Picking unnecessary fights to justify bad behavior:
    > "The biggest sign is starting fights—they make themselves feel better about cheating." (20:36, Brad)
  • Sudden new tricks or behaviors in the bedroom:
    > "Things were changing, she brought new moves and I knew those tricks weren't coming from me." (21:28, Bill)
  • Secrecy with phones, deleted texts, hiding messages, or changing contact names:
    > "There’s really no reason to delete messages unless you’re hiding something." (27:36, Stephen)
• Is flirting cheating?
  • Some see it as personality, others say it’s a slippery slope if it persists.
    > "If you're consistently flirting, that's a little weird." (28:13, Kate)

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4. Emotional vs. Physical Cheating

Timestamps: 22:36 – 26:36

• Which is worse?
  • The group is divided:
    • Some say physical is always worse;

      "I think physical cheating is always worse." (25:59, Brad)

    • Others, like Stephen, argue emotional is more damaging:

      "A lot of times, emotional cheating is worse because your partner is giving their trust and feelings to someone else." (26:02, Stephen)

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5. Should Friends Tell Friends About Cheating?

Timestamps: 29:15 – 34:12; 41:39 – 43:44

• Guilt and Responsibility:
  • Giuliana shares a dilemma where a friend didn't want to share a cheating suspicion due to possible harm to the family.

    "Some people don’t want to know, especially if they have kids. You have to be careful how you bring it up." (33:02, Brad)

  • Panel generally agrees only to broach the subject if the friend is very close; otherwise, anonymity might be preferable.
  • The risk: If the couple stays together, the friend who spoke up may be shut out of the relationship. > "If they stay together, you're the one who ends up out of the relationship." (43:26, Stephen)

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6. Can Cheaters Change?

Timestamps: 34:50 – 36:32

• Nature vs. Habit:
  • Some believe cheating is a serial behavior:
    > "Most people I know who are cheaters are serial cheaters—whoever they’re with." (35:29, Brad)
  • Others see possibility for growth, especially with age and maturity:
    > "People evolve; they become better. There's growth with age. In your 20s you have less to lose than when you’re older." (34:58, Bill)

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7. Insecurity and Relationship Dynamics

Timestamps: 38:35 – 41:39

• Insecurity:
  • Panel discusses how insecurity often stems not just from an individual, but the partner’s unwillingness or inability to offer reassurance and affection.

    "It's also the partner's responsibility to make the other feel secure... If you're not getting that, maybe it's the wrong relationship." (38:37, Bill)

  • Family upbringing and past trauma can play a big role in insecurity.

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8. Male Perspective: The “Bro Code” vs. Responsibility

Timestamps: 40:03 – 41:39

• Do Men Call Each Other Out?
  • Most agree it’s complicated—guys often keep quiet, don’t interfere, but make a mental note about their buddy’s character.

    "They know they're being shitty. They don't need you to tell them... you just put a mental note and move forward accordingly." (40:50, Brad)

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9. Monogamy and Shaquille O’Neal’s “Three Types of Cheaters”

Timestamps: 45:35 – 47:17

• Stephen shares a breakdown from Shaquille O’Neal’s appearance on another podcast:
  • Serial Cheater: Always has someone new, regardless of situation
  • James Bond Cheater: Random, secret one-night stands
  • “Forced” Cheater: Lacks intimacy at home, uses that as rationalization

  "Shaq basically said some NBA players just aren't monogamous, and described these three cheater types—it's like a program for some, for others it's situational." (46:35, Stephen)

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10. Communication & Honesty: The Pillars of Trust

Timestamps: 47:17 – End

• The panel agrees: Relationships succeed only through honesty and communication.

  "Communication's really important—if there's something you're not getting, you have to tell the person. You can't fix the problem otherwise." (47:37, Stephen)

• Couples should establish trust and openness; deleting messages, secrecy, or avoidance are all red flags.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Giuliana (on realizing projection):

  "Now I look back, I go, oh my god, he was totally projecting... That was him knowing he was capable of it." (06:56)

• Janet's Detective Story:

  "I'm not feeling really settled with this tampon in the drawer. No expiration date... Then I drove by his softball game and saw him with another girl." (11:04)

• Bill (on emotional cheating):

  "A lot of times it’s that feeling your partner can’t give you what you want... I think that’s worse because it’s more ongoing." (26:02)

• Brad (on serial cheaters):

  "Most of the people I know who are cheaters are serial cheaters... It's like an addiction." (35:29)

• Stephen (on phone secrecy):

  "If someone’s changing a contact name, or deleting all their texts, that’s a big red flag." (27:21)

• Giuliana (on being told):

  "As my friends, please tell me. I don't mind if my world blows up overnight – I just want to know the truth." (35:50)

• Bill (referencing Maya Angelou):

  "I think it was Maya Angelou—when someone shows you who they are, believe them." (39:14)

• Stephen (sharing a life/work lesson):

  "If you lie about little things, you lie about big things. That follows into relationships, it's consistently true." (48:43)

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Summary Table: Cheating Red Flags (with Timestamps)

| Red Flag Type | Example / Explanation | Timestamp | |-----------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Projection | Partner’s requests for fidelity actually signal their own intentions | 06:30 | | Sudden Change in Routine | Excuses to avoid time together, e.g., sudden "Zumba lessons" | 09:53 | | New Tricks in Bed | Partner brings new moves, possibly from another relationship | 21:28 | | Deleted/Hidden Messages | Deleting entire text histories or changing contact names | 27:21 | | Starting Fights Unprovoked | Picking fights to justify cheating or to make the partner seem in the wrong | 20:36 | | Over-Friendliness/Flirting | Excessive, targeted flirting; exceptions made for personality differences | 28:13 | | Exclusion by Partner | Not being introduced to friends or family | 38:07 |

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Takeaways

• Honesty and Communication: The panel repeatedly stresses that being upfront about needs, insecurities, and mistakes is essential to a healthy relationship.
• Cheating Patterns: Cheating often involves red flags, but self-awareness and growth can sometimes break the cycle.
• Role of Friends: Friends face ethical dilemmas when privy to cheating—most agree only to intervene if the friend is very close.
• Flirting & Gray Areas: Flirting is complicated, not always cheating, but persistent secrecy or intimacy with others often signals deeper issues.
• No Single “Right Way”: Each couple and situation is unique, but open communication and integrity are universally crucial.

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Final Thought

"Life’s a lot easier when you take the high road and you communicate. Don’t cheat. And if you’re gonna cheat, tell the person first—because one lie leads to another."
— Bill Rancic (48:38, closing segment)

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This episode offers a lively, candid, and wisdom-packed discussion—for anyone navigating love, trust, or the tricky waters of relationships.

Transcript

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[E]

Welcome to Bill and Juliana the Podcast.

[C]

Hey guys. Welcome to the Bill and Juliana podcast. So it's been a little bit of a nutty couple of weeks. I relived my past from 22 years ago and I don't want to go into it a lot because like, we've already gone into it so much.

[E]

Well, I've had to relive your past.

[C]

Yes, but you've been good about it.

[F]

Thank you.

[C]

If you didn't tune in to our last two episodes. Basically I brought up the story of how 22 years ago my ex cheated on me. And it's a long story. You guys just have to go listen

[E]

to the other two podcasts.

[C]

Yes, what we thought is this week we would do an episode on cheating, Red flags. And the reason we're bringing this up is because we've kind of become relationship experts since last week.

[E]

Look at that.

[G]

Look at you.

[E]

We've gotten a lot of comments on social media and everyone is an expert in relationships. We're learning a lot. Not from my personal experiences, but from all the wonderful comments that people are leaving us.

[H]

No, we don't.

[C]

Like, just so you know, we don't have like a PhD in psychology or a BA or a BS maybe a BS you do, but we don't. Yes.

[E]

We're very lucky. We have an amazing panel.

[C]

Yes, we do.

[E]

Some of Chicago's finest.

[C]

The world's finest. Yeah.

[E]

And the world's finest, for that matter. And we have a second time guest, Kate M. So thank you, Kate M. For coming on the show. Yes.

[C]

Kate M. You guys might recall from the last podcast, is part of the witness production program. So we just say call her Kate M. And then we have someone else from the witness protection program here. Brad. Brad, who we just called Brad. No last name.

[G]

Perish for me. And I'm excited to be here.

[C]

Are you okay, Brad? No last name. No even initial in the last name.

[G]

Wow. Okay, I like it.

[C]

Then we have someone who. We are. Yes, we are totally open to talk about Stephen Galanis, who is of course the founder, president, head of Cameo. You created Cameo, right?

[F]

I did.

[C]

So Cameo, if you guys don't know, is amazing. It's like when people send video messages to their friends. And you know, Stephen, we've talked about that. I know. Remember we were gonna do.

[E]

I had a cameo request last week for some woman's 60th birthday.

[C]

Did you do it?

[E]

I forgot and it expired. So I have to. I gotta do more on Cameo.

[F]

Leaving money on the table.

[E]

I know. No, it was, it's. It's a shameful.

[C]

You know, Stephen, my dad would be

[E]

very upset with me. He's looking down like, what are you doing, Stephen?

[C]

I was actually thinking, I've never done one, but I want to do one. But can I donate it all to animal rescue?

[F]

Yes.

[C]

Okay.

[F]

And you get the write off.

[C]

Oh, there we go. Okay, I'm doing it.

[B]

My man.

[F]

We're talking taxes later.

[C]

Exactly. Part two of this is taxes, red flags. And then we also have Janet Mandel back with us on the podcast.

[H]

Hi, thank you for having me again.

[C]

So Janet, of course, is stylist, fashionista extraordinaire who started this incredible business called the Janet Mandel showroom or Janet Mandel. And she has these incredible showrooms around the country, and she does very, very high end luxury worldwide.

[E]

We call her Mrs. Worldwide Luxury Fashion.

[C]

Lisa. So kind. Yeah. If you want to borrow a Tom Ford dress and not buy a Tom Ford dress, you go to Janet Mandel. Hi, Janet.

[H]

Hi, Juliana. Hi, Bill. Hi, everybody.

[E]

Let's dig.

[F]

Right?

[E]

Let's dive right in.

[C]

Okay, so here's the deal. The reason we thought this would be a good episode, this is really organically how it happened. So had taped our podcast last week, and then we went back to the office, and I was sitting with Briana and Ava, and I was saying, gosh, you know, we're just talking about the whole thing. And I was like, you know, thinking back to 22 years ago, there were red flags because they asked me, like, were there any red flags? And I never really thought of that. So one thing I remembered is that you guys are going to die. In a lot of our email correspondence, we would have these, like, lovey, gushy emails. And then at the very end, my ex would write, PS please don't ever cheat on me. Let's not ruin this. Nothing was wrong with the relationship.

[G]

Strange thing to write.

[E]

Can I. Can I stop for a second? So this ex cheated on her once.

[C]

We're not saying who that ex is.

[E]

And then she took him back.

[G]

You know, it is.

[E]

And then during this rekindling of the relationship, she brings him to the Hot Maxim 100 party. That's like releasing a wolf into a hen of chickens, right?

[C]

Like, yes. When Bill said that I had this aha moment on the podcast last week, I was like, wow, Bill is, like, very smart. He's quite a relationship expert.

[E]

I think you're overselling me.

[C]

Okay. There were definitely red flags. There were definitely things I could have done differently. I was so confident in our relationship on my half, like, I would never cheat on him, that I was confident. Like, I didn't care that I was bringing him to a Hot 100 party. Or that. And then when I saw him sign off, PS don't cheat on me. I love you so much. Let's not ruin this. I honestly thought, aww, he thinks you're

[F]

too good for him.

[C]

That's it.

[G]

He thinks you're. And you're reading it as he thinks you're too good for him. And, like, please don't leave me, because I can't get to any better ever than you.

[C]

Yes. Or I honestly, Brad, I was honestly thinking, oh, that's so sweet. Like, he wants to make sure we never ruin this. And, like, we're both never gonna cheat on each other. But what I honestly saw was, oh, he's so happy in our relationship. He doesn't want us to ruin it. But really, now I look back, I go, oh, my God, he was totally projecting. That was him knowing he was capable of it, but I never even thought for a second because I was incapable of it. I never cheated on him. Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense, Steven?

[F]

I think he. It sounds like he was projecting there or maybe giving a little clue what was going to happen.

[C]

Oh, which is projecting. Foreshadowing.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And then, Janet, what do you think?

[H]

Number one, are men that, no offense to men here, but are they that detail oriented where they would think, yes, I'm going to do this because I know that she, you know, she won't cheat on me if I tell her not to cheat on me. You know what I mean? Yeah. Was. Are they that strategic? But again, I don't know. It depends on his mood, I guess.

[C]

At that point, I think he was projecting.

[E]

Kate, Thoughts?

[I]

I think he was probably projecting or just very insecure. And insecure people end up cheating. So.

[C]

Yeah, good point.

[E]

Point.

[F]

I also think it's funny going back to that time that it was like emails, right? And how different like the email, like, long distance relationship is versus the texting one.

[C]

That's so true.

[F]

She's definitely not putting that in a text message.

[C]

Yes, you're right. And we weren't really texting back then because back then, this is the early 2000s, remember, you had to like write like ABC.

[G]

Yeah.

[C]

You had to click a three times

[G]

to test C. Everything was short. Went back then.

[C]

Everything was short. And we had razors, the Motorola razor and the T mobile Sidekick.

[E]

I had a Sidekick.

[C]

It took a lot. I know you did. You had like a, A purple one.

[E]

I got it for free.

[C]

He took the.

[E]

Back in the day when people would send me things for free.

[C]

But yeah, so. And then it's so funny because when I went back to our emails, like, I had a Yahoo account, he had an AOL account. And so, like, that was, you know, we just emailed and spoke on the phone, but it was a lot of that. So what are some other cheating red flags? So first of all, let's start with this. Have. Have you guys ever been cheated on? Anyone ever been cheated on?

[A]

Bill?

[C]

Have you been cheated on?

[E]

Not to my rec. I mean, perhaps not that I caught anyone red handed, you know, with paparazzi walking hand in hand together after an event. So not that glaring.

[C]

What are you trying to. Wait, did you just bring it back to what happened to me?

[B]

You're right.

[A]

I forgot.

[C]

I was like, who would do that?

[E]

No, not to my recollection, but I'm sure someone on our illustrious panel here has been cheated on.

[C]

Steven.

[F]

In my early 20s, I had a girlfriend that I caught cheating that.

[E]

Did you catch her?

[F]

So she was. She was in college still. I was maybe a couple of years out trading, and she. A couple of nights a week. All of a sudden, she started having Zuma lessons. Like, to be, like, a Zumba. Whatever the dance. Whatever the dance.

[C]

What year was this?

[F]

This would have been, like, 2012, like, sometime in that era.

[C]

Zumba was hot back then.

[F]

It was a hot thing. And it was just. And she was having to go, like, 7am so she'd be like, hey, I can't stay over tonight because I've got this Zumba thing. And she was like, do you want to come? And I was like, no, I don't want to go.

[C]

Janet Meddell.

[H]

I have a good one.

[E]

I can only imagine.

[H]

I have a good one. So I was dating this guy. It was like we were getting serious towards the end, six, seven months later. So he's like, you know, I don't like to share my bathroom, so do you mind using the guest bathroom? I'm like, sure. So I'm in the bathroom getting ready. I opened a drawer, and there's, like, a tampon in one of the drawers. And I'm like, okay. Well, I'm thinking, okay, maybe that's from his previous girlfriend.

[C]

Sure.

[H]

Men don't usually, like, clean the guest bathrooms.

[E]

Right.

[H]

They don't pay attention. So months go by, and I'm like, you know, I don't feel. You know, we have our intuition, women. And I'm like, I'm not feeling really settled with this tampon in the drawer. No expiration date.

[F]

Did you leave it in the drawer?

[H]

I left it in the drawer.

[G]

Did you ask him about it?

[H]

No, of course not. Because I'm being strategic, Right?

[C]

Did you say no expiration date?

[H]

I was thinking, like, was there, like, a package, like, in a box?

[C]

You were, like, looking for this? Yeah. It could have something, like, 30 years ago.

[E]

Put a little black marker dot on it to see if.

[H]

And I'm like, was it open? Disgusting. But anyways, it was just, like, one tampon in there. I'm looking for, like, boxes and stuff.

[E]

Right. How many times can we say tampon?

[H]

Oh, guys get so, like, uneasy when people say tampon. Sorry, guys. So apologetic. I'm sorry. So, like, about two months go by, and he invites me to a softball game. And I'm like, okay. So I go to a softball game, he's playing. We had fun, blah, blah, blah. And I've noticed that he plays two times a week, right? And Thursday, he didn't invite me. And I'm like, hmm. And I didn't ask him. So this is like two weeks of me going to his game consistently. But one Thursday, he decides not to invite me. Not even ask him. So crazy me drives by the park, and there he is with another girl.

[E]

Uh.

[I]

Oh.

[H]

And she's at the game, but it wasn't me.

[C]

Did this. This the same tampon brand fall out of her bag or something?

[G]

How did you.

[H]

I was actually going to get out of my car and go up to her and be like, did you leave a tampon at the drawer of. But I didn't.

[A]

Okay.

[H]

I was so upset because I was like, he lied. He told me he wasn't dating anybody else, like, in my face, eye to eye. And so I was upset and I stopped calling him. I was like, we're done. And then, you know, wow.

[G]

Wait, you didn't get out of the car and storm the game?

[H]

I was going to. Trust me. I was. I was fired up. And I was so angry because I really like this guy. But I'm like, damn it.

[F]

How'd you know what the relationship dynamic was there?

[H]

Well, she was standing there. He would, you know, he would pitch or hit. He would come back to her, and, you know, he would, like, put his arms around her. It was like, totally.

[F]

She stayed there a long time.

[H]

I was being there. I was being that crazy girl. Like, oh, my God, is he gonna make the move? Is she gonna do something? Are they gonna kiss? Cause I need evidence. You were hiding in the bushes, literally in the car.

[F]

Like, did they kiss? Did you see him kiss?

[H]

No, they didn't kiss, but he had his arms around her enough. Yeah, enough to know. Yeah. And then I'm like, I need to know what car she's in, because next I'm gonna drive by his house and see if her car's parked in front. You know, my mind was going, like, a little crazy.

[F]

Detective mode.

[H]

Yeah, totally detective mode.

[C]

I love detective mode. I've been there, done that a hundred times.

[H]

It's fun at the same time, as well as, you know, sad.

[C]

And then Janet. Well, Janet. Janet is quite the relationship expert because, you know. Do you guys know her story?

[E]

No.

[C]

Janet, you gotta tell them the story.

[H]

So I. Do you remember that guy that was here earlier, the blonde. So he's my ex husband, but we're now boyfriend and girlfriend and live together. So we were married for like 18 years. Filed for divorce. Within three months we were divorced. And then about a month and a half later we got back together. And it's crazy, but you know, I never left my house. Like in the.

[G]

Did he ever leave the house?

[H]

No. In the divorce settlement it says I'm allowed to live there for a year and a half. So that was a divorce settlement. She gets to live there for a year and a half rent free, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. Mostly for my kids. I wanted to make sure that they were acclimated with the transition so we never left. And then the reason we got back together was cause I was jealous that he was dating some other girl. Like just in front of me, talking to her, text messaging her, you know, he's like, we're divorced. I'm like, uh huh. And here's me like never went on one date, never even had sex with anybody. Yeah, I know it's my fault, but I was like, I wasn't ready mentally. Right. Here he is gallivanting with, you know, other waitresses. Yeah, whatever they were. And I got jealous and so.

[F]

And would he bring him home to the house you guys were both living at?

[A]

Great question.

[H]

Yes.

[F]

No, no, no, no, no.

[E]

What's me. Well, that's a great question.

[H]

You're asking if he. No. Well, not to my knowledge. I don't think so. But we were only broken up for like what, almost five months, Right. So I mean, I don't think so.

[E]

Did cheating cause the divorce?

[H]

No, the cheating didn't cause the divorce. I think the dynamic of being in business together caused us to separate and menopause. I was fully on menopause with.

[E]

Oh, well, that's another episode.

[H]

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I mean to bring up some.

[C]

Definitely wasn't your tampon.

[H]

I mean there is correlation to that,

[F]

but just hit a pole.

[C]

I just hit the pole. Sorry, go ahead.

[G]

So then do you get remarried to him now?

[A]

Hell no.

[H]

I'm never getting remarried. I'm never getting remarried to him or anyone else.

[F]

Are you guys still business partners?

[H]

Yes, we're still business partners.

[F]

And did that through the divorce? Through everything.

[H]

I mean, I think things got better after we decided there was no strings attached. Like we have the best communication now, which we didn't have before. We are best friends. We were always best friends. Sex was always great. It got better. And we do a Lot of things together now. You know, before we were like, okay, I'm going to work. Bye.

[I]

Okay.

[H]

See you later. Well, you go.

[B]

Dinner.

[C]

Well, you do a lot of, like, they'll go. They live in the suburbs now. They move from the city to the suburbs. But you'll do a weekend in the city. They'll stay at, like, the Peninsula. And you, like, hang out all weekend and it's so cute. You just hang out in your robes.

[H]

Yeah, And I support him. Like, he's. He loves music, he's in a band, so I support him. And I think that's what was missing, is that he felt that I wasn't supportive of him. It was always about the business. And, you know, the business is always. It's my name on the business. So he's always felt like he was sort of left.

[C]

Oh, second fiddle to you was that

[E]

menopause, too, which enhanced the. You know, where you just.

[H]

You know what's interesting? I took.

[C]

What does that mean?

[E]

I'm just asking a simple question.

[C]

What are you asking?

[A]

Really?

[E]

Just asking a simple question.

[C]

Okay. Sorry, I didn't even.

[H]

No, I think. I think I learned a lot from that divorce and how to deal with my emotions when things get red hot now I'm just like, okay, take a deep breath. Boundaries. You're not comfortable. Just leave the room. And it works.

[A]

Most dog food brands don't really want you seeing how their food is made. Just food for dogs is the opposite. They actually invite you in. You can walk into any of their kitchens and see real human grade ingredients, like chicken, beef, carrots, and peas being prepared right in front of you. It's real food made in real kitchens. Nothing is hidden behind labels. And that kind of transparency says a lot. Nothing to hide, everything to love. Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order.

[D]

Wasn't that delicious? So good.

[C]

Your bill, ladies.

[H]

I got it.

[B]

I got it.

[A]

No, I got it. Seriously, I insist.

[C]

I assisted first.

[A]

Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly.

[B]

People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Okay.

[A]

Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[H]

Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot.

[A]

No.

[B]

The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.comActiveCash terms apply. I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment, the award winning storytelling podcast from kqed. And every week, Snap deals a new card, like jumping on Rihanna's private plane. Or the accidental bank robber, or even the man who was swallowed by a hippo what? Pick a card, any card. Snap judgment from kqed. New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts, you know

[D]

what quality feels like. You can see it in the way a fabric moves, recognize it in a flawless fit, and appreciate it in the details that make our styles unique. It's the standard Coldwater Creek has honored for over 40 years, derived from a rich Mountain west heritage and designed for today in styles that are distinctively Coldwater Creek. For a wardrobe you can count on season after season, visit coldwatercreek.com, shop new arrivals and save 15% on purchases. $75 or more with code iHeart.

[C]

But Janet, are you guys exclusive to each other?

[H]

Yes, we are exclusive to each other. Yes. We don't date other people.

[E]

No.

[C]

Isn't that wild?

[G]

That's great. Glad it worked out for you guys.

[H]

I know it's not normal, and we're just not normal people in general, so it works for us. But people laugh. They're like, wait, what? You're still back with your. Wait, what is. I don't understand.

[C]

You're dating your ex?

[H]

They're like, are you guys remarried? I'm like, no. They're like, what? How are your kids with that? I'm like, fine.

[C]

That's so interesting, isn't it? Let me ask you guys this. What are some signs? For instance, okay, so my ex boyfriend saying, hey, don't cheat. That was projecting.

[G]

I think the biggest sign is starting fights. Cause you're starting a fight with the girl because you're cheating on her. Oh, you're cheating on her. And you start a fight so that you can tell yourself, oh, she's a bitch. Like, look at her. Like, that's fine. She's just as bad.

[C]

That's a good one.

[G]

And go and do your own thing on the side.

[C]

You're right.

[G]

And just justify it in your own head by making her seem more difficult than she probably is.

[C]

That's a good one.

[E]

I think I may have. Not because I was cheating, but because I wanted to end a relationship. It's like an easy out. So that's actually a really good point.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Steven, can you think of any?

[E]

I've got one. So I dated a girl, and I noticed that romantically, like, things were changing, and, like, shoot, there was more. God, how do I say this word's clean. But, like, there were some new tricks in the hat. And I'm like, huh, this is unusual. So I'm 99.9% sure that those tricks were being learned outside of my arena.

[I]

Like, oh, There were some new moves.

[F]

She had a tutor.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Someone was giving her a little college education.

[C]

You know, she suddenly showed up with new moves.

[E]

Like, yeah. I was like, oh, this. This is very unusual. So, like, I thought, okay, hindsight. I look back, I'm like, oh, God. Yeah. No, now it makes sense.

[C]

Oh, my God. That is so scandalous.

[E]

Thank you. Thank you.

[C]

What's her name?

[E]

I can't.

[B]

I can't.

[H]

Oh, come on.

[C]

I said mine. My ex's name.

[E]

Well, that was. He was a public figure. I don't want to bring anyone into

[C]

the story, but we know she wasn't a public figure.

[E]

Not at all.

[C]

So I can definitely.

[F]

Cocktail waitress.

[H]

Yes, yes.

[C]

Cocktail waitress for Jeff or Bill. Can I be on it? Can I play devil's advocate, though? Or she was reading a book or watching videos or something like, oh, bring tricks to the bedroom to, like, keep your guy happy. Research.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. There were other factors that when I look back, I'm like, oh, duh. Like, now it's making sense.

[C]

Oh, interesting. Okay, what do you think is worse to you guys? Physical cheating or an emotional affair?

[E]

Define an emotional affair.

[C]

I've never had an emotional affair. I really haven't. I don't have, like, a.

[F]

Did anyone define anyone in the.

[C]

So not physical. Like, you never make out or anything, but, like, you guys are opening up to each other, and you're like, oh, my God, I talked to you. Like, I can't talk to my husband this way. Like, you're so amazing. You make me feel a certain way. Or just meeting someone on an airplane, you know, hey, I have, like, a few hours before my meeting. Let's hook up.

[E]

Well, that's cheating.

[G]

Yes. Yeah, that's actual cheating.

[C]

So which one would be worse? A physical cheating, like, wham, bam, done, or like, an ongoing emotional affair?

[F]

I've had two situations in my life where they were bachelorette parties. One was they were in Chicago. Another one was bachelorette party in Miami. Ended up kind of with my group of friends at a table, et cetera, where the bride. This happened. Where the bride actually, like, came out and was like, I don't really want to do this. And then, like, after, like, long minute talking, I had one that was like, I think you're my soulmate. Like, crazy. Crazy. Crazy.

[E]

What?

[G]

Yeah.

[E]

Whoa.

[C]

And what.

[F]

Was there any.

[E]

Any physical contact?

[F]

One of them, yes. The other one, no. Because I learned my lesson for the first.

[E]

Got it.

[C]

Wait, this happened twice?

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

The bride came to you.

[F]

Different.

[G]

Different brides.

[F]

Different Bride different.

[C]

That's, like, unbelievable.

[F]

First one was, wait, like, similar. 2012, 2013 area social. 25. They were, you know, big table there, big bachelorette party comes, have a really fun night. And that one, the bride, like, left. I think she left her shoes or something. So she had to, like, come back the next day to your house. To my house, and was like, so the maid of honor, all them are like, where the hell did she go? Right? And she had to, like, go, come back the next morning. And she, like, told me. She's like, you are the love of my life. I just met this person right when she saw the mansion you had. I had. I had a second similar type of situation in Miami, but I left. I learned my lesson for the first time and just didn't let that go anywhere.

[C]

Wow.

[F]

But. But those bachelorette parties, I'll tell you what, like, things get out of hand. Things get out of hand.

[I]

Will you allow your fiance one day to go on a bachelorette party?

[F]

Yeah. I think you have to be able to trust the person that you're with. Like, I'm not a. I'm like, a full trust person. I don't. I don't have any issues with that. But there are people, like, if they're really, really unhappy. And in both these cases, it was like they were supposed to get married to these people. I think one of them ended up calling off the wedding, which was good. But the other one, like, went through it and is, like, married with kids. But, like, it was. There was a lot of pressure because all of her friends were there, and, like, they were just, like, too far down the pipe, and she just decided to go through with it anyways. Wow.

[C]

Are they still together?

[F]

I mean, I, like, I haven't talked to. Yeah, I think it's the one from Chicago. I haven't talked, like, probably 10 years. 10, 15 years. This is a long time ago.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

But I remember seeing that she was married. She had kids. Like, this is a Facebook era.

[C]

All right. Oh, my God. Facebook era. I'm dead.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

That's wild.

[E]

Anyone else have an opinion on which is worse?

[G]

I think physical cheating is always worse.

[E]

It's a little worse.

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

I think emotional is worse, actually, for a variety of reasons, because a lot of times I think it's that, you know, it's that feeling that your partner can't give you what, you know, what you want and that trust and that. It's like they're the person they're going to instead of it. And I've seen this Happen like in work situations where, you know, someone's got their, like, work. What? Like their work wife or their work husband, and they're going to them, you know, over everything. And that eventually either materializes or not. But I think that's. I personally think that's worse because it's, like, more ongoing.

[E]

It's a slow burn.

[F]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Would you.

[E]

Cigar. In our cigar talk here, is.

[C]

Is hiding texts cheating or.

[G]

Depends on what's in the texts.

[C]

Well, I was going to say, if nothing physical has happened, but you don't want your significant other to see you texting with someone, so you're, like, hiding the text or deleting them. Is that cheating?

[E]

We knew a guy, and I won't mention names, but he left his phone on the counter. Someone that we both know. And this cell phone was the cleanest. Not one. He would delete the text. There was not one. Deleted every text. It was clean, empty. It's like zero inbox. So we're like, oh, like, this is. This doesn't seem normal to us.

[F]

That. And then if somebody, like, changes a name. Right.

[E]

Oh, interesting.

[F]

That's actually that first story. Like, that's how. That's how I ended up catching that person, because they started getting texts from, like, somebody that I knew. But, like, I checked the number. Was it. And they deleted, like, hundreds of text messages going back.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[F]

And I think, like, there's really no reason other than if you have a spam tax. Like, I've. I personally, I have as many texts as anybody, probably on this podcast. Yeah. And, like, I've never deleted a text before. Like, I just don't think there's any reason to go do that.

[E]

Yeah.

[F]

But you know, when you see people changing names or that, that's a big

[E]

red flag to me, at least I would agree. Yeah. That seems very suspicious.

[F]

Yes.

[E]

You're changing a name.

[C]

Yeah, that is. How about flirting? Is flirting cheating? Would you guys consider flirting cheating?

[H]

I think flirting is not cheating.

[E]

I think Kate has a different opinion on this. I saw you coming.

[C]

What do you think, Kate?

[I]

I think being friendly is one thing and having conversations is one thing, but if you're consistently flirting with someone, that's a little weird.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

That's weird.

[H]

But don't you think some people have that flirtatious personality?

[C]

Yes.

[H]

You know what I mean? They're harmless. They want to engage with people.

[G]

Or some people just like the attention. That's it. They go into a party and they're married. And I've been To a lot of parties with like certain people's wives just like to go over to the other girl's husbands and like flirt with them and they like the attention for whatever reason.

[H]

I think it's when you're touchy feely, right? Or like, or like you're talking to them for the whole night instead of anybody else. That's a red flag to me.

[G]

Yes.

[F]

I think that's just much more a personality trait. There's certain people that are like that all the time. Then there's other people where it's like if you have, if you're like super introverted and all of a sudden like you're spending the whole night in the corner with that other person that might be different than the person that's just kind of, you know, there all the time doing the same thing.

[C]

What about this, you guys? If your friend knew that your partner was cheating, would you want your friend to tell you? This kind of came up. One of my friends recently found out about possible infidelity with her sis that you know, her brother in law and her sister.

[E]

Who can we who?

[C]

I can't tell you.

[E]

Okay.

[C]

Damn, you don't know them. And so yeah, one of my friends recently had this situation and we talked about it and where she decided that she didn't want to tell the friend is because they have kids and she was a little nervous about just the long term effects of breaking up not only a relationship, but a family. So I thought that was kind of interesting.

[I]

Yeah, that is interesting. Especially if there's kids because like maybe she already does know about it.

[C]

That's true.

[I]

I think you should maybe allude to it a couple different ways and see if they their response.

[A]

Most dog food brands don't really want you seeing how their food is made. Just food for dogs is the opposite. They actually invite you in. You can walk into any of their kitchens and see real human grade ingredients like chicken, beef, carrots and peas being prepared right in front of you. It's real food made in real kitchens. Nothing is hidden behind labels. And that kind of transparency says a lot. Nothing to hide, everything to love. Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order.

[D]

Wasn't that delicious? So good.

[C]

Your bill, ladies.

[A]

I got it. Seriously, I insist.

[C]

I assisted first.

[A]

Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly.

[B]

People with the Wells Fargo active cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Okay.

[A]

Rock, paper scissors for it.

[H]

Rock, paper, scissors.

[D]

Shoot.

[B]

No, the Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.comActiveCash terms apply. I'm Gwen Washington from Snap Judgment, the storytelling podcast from kqed. Imagine an iconic piece of paradise overrun by one of the most horrific fires in recent memory. Everyone flees. Everyone except one person who decides to fight the flames. All systems down. The moment when nature, institutions, and technology fail at the exact same time. A new Snapchat miniseries from kqed. Wherever you get your podcasts, you know

[D]

what quality feels like. You can see it in the way a fabric moves, recognize it in a flawless fit, and appreciate it in the details that make our styles unique. It's the standard Coldwater Creek has honored for over 40 years, derived from a rich Mountain west heritage and designed for today in styles that are distinctively Coldwater Creek. For a wardrobe you can count on season after season, visit coldwatercreek.com, shop new arrivals and save 15% on purchases. $75 or more with code iHeart.

[E]

So let's role play. Hypothetically, Brad and Janet are married.

[G]

Okay.

[E]

How would you. How would you address Janet? Because this is a good. This is good. Yeah.

[C]

Like, if you're her.

[E]

Brad was cheating on Janet.

[I]

Janet. I saw Brad out the other night. He was very busy talking to some girls. Like, things like that where you could kind of lead her reaction if she, like, shut it right down, I would say, like, maybe this is something between them. They're working it out, and she doesn't want to talk to other people about it.

[C]

So kind of feel it out a little bit, allude to it, but don't say anything until you feel it out.

[I]

If, you know, if it was me, I'd be like, you know, what are you talking about? I need the information. And then you could get into it.

[C]

I agree, because I think some people don't want to know.

[G]

I mean, I think most people don't want to know, especially if they have young kids at home or they're. Most people don't want their lives to blow up overnight. So you have to be very careful when bringing that up. And I would probably say only if it's one of your closest friends where you feel that comfort level, would you potentially bring it up. Someone that you sort of know, when you see, you sort of stay away, I would think.

[C]

Would you ever maybe write an email? That's what I said to my friend. I said, maybe. Do you do, like, an anonymous letter or email? I mean, I don't know. Then you're not tied to it.

[F]

You know, I think that's Just like, a very unfair thing because there might be, like, a good explanation for it. But I agree with you that I think the pecking order is, like, how close of a friend they are.

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

And then also, like, which of the people in the relationship are you better friends with? I think makes a big difference on those. Because the truth is to, like, you never know what type of. What's going on in somebody else's bedroom. You don't know what the relationship dynamics are.

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

It's just a really hard thing to, like, jump into. But if it's. It's like you're the best man at that person's wedding, and, you know, you saw, you know, her with the tennis instructor or something. Like, there's a threshold for it, but I think it's got to be pretty high.

[E]

Those tennis instructors, by the way.

[I]

Wow.

[E]

There's a lot of infidelity with the. With the tennis teacher.

[C]

Wow.

[E]

I think about it.

[C]

How does one know. How do you know that?

[I]

Multiple.

[C]

Especially you don't play tennis.

[F]

Especially in the.

[E]

I know, but I know people.

[C]

Suburbs.

[G]

Yeah.

[E]

That's what I mean. Right. I know people.

[F]

Friends and neighbors, you know, that show.

[H]

They're very bored in the suburbs.

[F]

You know, it's like. And like, that's. That's the thing. And then I don't know if you guys ever see that guy. P.E. guy on. Oh, he's.

[E]

Yeah, we just watched him play.

[F]

But that's like, one of the big themes always is, like, yeah, wifey's, you know, doing two days with the tennis instructor. She's so happy. But, like, he's making that joke because that's, like, a thing.

[C]

Okay. What about the old saying, once a cheater, always a cheater? Do you think that's true, or.

[E]

I think people can redeem themselves.

[C]

Can people change?

[E]

Yeah, I think people evolve. They can redeem themselves. They become better. I think there's growth with age. You know, I think if you cheated in your 20s, you know, men are still kind of developing their brains in their early 20s, and, you know, you have more to lose as you get older.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

And you have a family, you have kids. You know, I think it's different.

[C]

What do you guys think?

[H]

Well, how about if you're in your 40s?

[E]

That's different.

[H]

Yeah. Different.

[E]

Right.

[H]

I think. I just think that it's situational. Like, it depends on the person.

[D]

Right.

[G]

Most of the people I know who are cheaters are serial cheaters.

[A]

Yeah.

[G]

And whoever they're with, me, too. Yeah.

[H]

Yeah. It doesn't matter. If she's a 5 or a 10. It's just. It's something about them. It's like an addiction almost. Right. It's a cheater addiction. Yeah.

[C]

And by the way, just going back to something you said, how you said, most people don't want to know if someone's cheating.

[G]

Yeah.

[C]

As my friends, please tell me I don't mind if my world blows up overnight. If I. As long as I know the truth,

[E]

that's not gonna happen.

[C]

I don't want my world to blow up overnight, Bill, but.

[H]

And I love you.

[C]

And I hope we stay together forever and ever and ever. The one thing, though, that would tear us apart.

[G]

CS go cheat on me. Yes.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

Don't ruin it. Don't ruin it, Billy.

[C]

I'm just as bad as my ex. Yeah, but you know what I mean.

[H]

I agree with you.

[C]

So I'm not even saying, like, Bill, I would never cheer. You never chat on me. It's like, it's so funny. So Bill and I. I never, ever, ever, like, look at his messages. I'm never insecure. He can do whatever he wants. He can go wherever he wants just because I'm really comfortable.

[E]

You have all my, like, I don't even know my passcodes to stuff. She had. She has this app where all my passcodes are in this app.

[C]

No, that's not why. No.

[F]

But I promise nobody I knew before that.

[C]

And he never has to because we never say to each other, okay, well, is everything gonna be okay? I hope you don't cheat on me. Like, I hope I don't have to be worried about anything. Do I? We never do that. Because I think we just. I think you know who you are and I know who I am. And I know, like, I wouldn't cheat on you and you know you wouldn't cheat on me, but if it ever did happen, can you guys please tell me, would you want to know?

[G]

Well, when we.

[E]

When we were about to get married, I was gonna go to dinner with this lifelong girlfriend of mine. And you're like, what?

[B]

What?

[E]

I'm like, no, we've been friends, like college. Like, we've been very close friends. Platonic. And she made me bring someone to the dinner and none of my friends were available. And I wound up calling like this 70 year old buddy of mine, like, we have cigars together. I'm like, hey, you want to come to dinner? And my friend was like, why is this older man having dinner with us tonight? So I think you had PTSD from your previous relationship.

[C]

I did I was about to say, I don't want to name name.

[E]

Okay, I'll bring him. But, like, this is gonna be really fricking weird because it was at the

[C]

beginning of the relationship, and I think I did have, you know, a little stress, PTSD from him cheating, and it was, like, such a shock. So you're right. But now, all these years later, do I ever question anything? Never.

[I]

He doesn't have to go out with a chaperone anymore.

[C]

No, Kate, on me. He does not have to go out. No more chaperones. If the guy is not introducing you to or girl on introducing you to her friends, that is definitely a red

[E]

flag in your current marriage or only marriage. Kate, how long did it take for your husband to introduce you to his friends and his family?

[C]

Great question.

[I]

I think it was our second date.

[E]

Second date. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[I]

And then I met you guys soon after.

[E]

Yes, you did.

[F]

Yeah.

[G]

Nobody wants to be in a relationship with an insecure person.

[C]

It's the worst.

[E]

I think it's also the partner who has to help with that insecurity and make that person feel secure. Right. So I think it cuts both ways. So perhaps if you're insecure in a relationship, it may not be your fault. It may be the person you're dating is not providing you with the affection and the love and the attention that you should have in that relationship.

[G]

But then it's probably not the right relationship.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[E]

No, I'm being honest. Like, I've been in relationships where I felt insecure, and it's like, oh, well, I wasn't. You know, I wasn't.

[G]

But it's the wrong relationship.

[E]

It was the wrong relationship. Yeah. I think it was Maya Angelou. When someone shows you who they are, you got to believe them. You know, that was her famous quote, and I think that's true.

[C]

Yeah. Someone shows you their true colors. It's a great quote.

[H]

I feel like sometimes insecurities within people stem from, like, upbringing. You know, maybe they're insecure because they never had the affection or the love from, you know, their family, their parents. Like, it could be multiple reasons. I feel that everybody has a level of insecurity. It just depends on how you portray that insecurity. Like, a lot of people are insecure in communications with, you know, their other half or their partner. Right. Because they. You don't want to fight, but that's part of insecurity as well. You're afraid to have a meaningful, true conversation that needs to happen, but you're insecure. And that leads to other things.

[E]

The men here. I'm going to ask you guys this question. You know, if you have a buddy who's married, you know, and out having affairs, you pull them aside and be like, what the are you doing? Or do you not bring it up? Like, hey, man, this isn't cool, because if you're going to cheat on your wife and your kids, you're going to cheat on me as a friend or as a business partner or. And I think you owe him that respect. Although then it violates the bro code, you know, like, where do you. How do you feel on that?

[G]

I'd like to say that of course you pull the person aside and you have that conversation. It's not always the easiest thing to do. They don't always want. They don't ever want the conversation. And they know what they're doing. There's no surprises.

[E]

They know they're being shitty. Yeah.

[G]

So they don't need you to tell them.

[H]

Right.

[G]

You just sort of put a mental note in your head so you know more about this person than you did before and you move forward accordingly.

[F]

I think it also, again, it's situated, it's situational. I think that it depends a how close you are with that person and what you know about the dynamic. Because sometimes, again, there's things that are happening that you have no idea about.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

They might have an arrangement, I think,

[I]

with like, the serial cheaters, too, that people may know them socially, but they're maybe not great friends with them. The serial cheater never has, like, the really great friends because they can't. They can't manage the relationships. So we might, like a group of people might know them socially, but no one's extremely tight with them.

[E]

Interesting.

[C]

If it was me and, like, it was my good friend and suddenly she started on this pattern and was like, having an affair or cheating. I mean, at some point, I think I'm her good friend. That's one of my duties, is to actually help her. If you want to be with this other person, just let your husband go or your boyfriend go. You got to be honest with them. It's not right.

[E]

Bill, don't you think I would hope so. You know, I mean, speaking on our relationship, I would want to know. I would want to be able to move on and, you know, yeah, I'd rather that than you cheat on me.

[F]

You know, the related thing on that is a lot of times when those relationships end, every friend is like, oh, I. You know, I knew. Or this person was so bad for you like. And then that's always where people are like, well, why didn't you tell me in the time? And. And, you know, the reason people don't do it a lot of times is because if they do work things out, you know, and it gets back to their partner, then it's like, oh, that's the person that, like, trying to, you know, bust our relationship. Like, people have that. That happens a lot.

[H]

It creates drama and confrontation. Yeah. And trust sometimes trust.

[G]

Or if you tell the spouse or if you tell them your husband or wife is cheating on you and they end up staying with them or going back to them, then they're embarrassed to be with you, and then it poisons weird.

[C]

The other. Yes. The flip side, which you just brought up, is a much tougher scenario. So I was saying it more like, if it was my best friend and she was doing the cheating, I'd be like, dude, you gotta make some life changes here. Just figure this out. Like, if it's my best friend's husband, that makes it a lot tougher. I mean, best friend, of course I'd have to tell her. But if it's a friend's husband, it's like, that's tougher because if they stay together, you're the one.

[G]

And then you're usually out.

[F]

You're out of the relationship.

[E]

You're not going with her for dinner no more.

[C]

That's why the anonymous email. Back to the anonymous letter. Anonymous email. But I think that. Yeah, I don't know. The whole thing is so crazy, isn't it?

[I]

Not Julianna rancicahoo.com.

[C]

yeah, I gotta get a new email.

[E]

How do you know when you're with someone that is not a cheater? You know, what are the signs of someone who is loyal? You know, that you can be yourself, but, you know, open book, having the code, your spouse's or girlfriend or boyfriend's cell phone number.

[C]

Like, I think an open book. I think when you find the person that you want to be with and that you're going to marry and that you're super confident in, that's when you're just, okay, open book.

[G]

I don't think the majority of people are cheaters. I think most people, if they're in a relationship with someone, they want to be in a relationship with that person, and they want to put all of their energy into that. So it's only when things go askew somewhere that things change. But most people that I. At least most people that I know, seem pretty happy and stable and comfortable in their Relationships.

[C]

Yeah.

[H]

But I think some of the cheaters are cheating because they're unhappy, obviously, but sexually they're not fulfilled. There's a lot of marriages where sex is a big issue. They don't have sex anymore. And we all know men need sex, right? Like, so they, they need to find

[C]

as opposed to women. We're like, we're fine.

[B]

We're okay.

[G]

I'm good.

[C]

Just put on like Love Island UK episode 3900 and I'm fine.

[H]

We've got our dogs and our kids.

[C]

I love the dogs.

[H]

But anyways, yes, I think a lot of not saying all men or, you know, all women, but they're just not sexually fulfilled. Instead of having this conversation with your other have, hey, I'm not sexually fulfilled. And it's.

[G]

Well.

[E]

But I think some men want the strange, you know, they want the new, the excitement, the.

[H]

That's what I don't get.

[E]

Like that.

[G]

But that's for them. That's when the flings come in and the random one night stand thing. And I don't think those guys. And we know those guys are looking to leave their wives or leave their families. It's a one off thing sometimes.

[F]

Did you guys see Shaq was on a podcast recently and he had this like, unbelievable. So the hostess was like, is it possible for one of these NBA superstars to actually be monogamous? And check basically was like, no. And he goes, but in my experience, there's three types of cheaters. I may butcher this, but I'll get some of it right. The first one was the. It was basically the serial cheater, right? This person, like every time they go to another city, they have the girls lined up, they're just going to do that. There is no if, ands or buts. It's just part of the program. And their wife either knows or doesn't, but it's just they're going to be. No matter who they're with, they're always going to be that cheater. The second one he calls the James Bond cheater. And he goes, this is, you know, you're in a hotel room and you're at the hotel bar on the road in Portland and you're just sitting there and some little thing comes up and it's like a one night stand. You never talk to them again. And it's like the James Bond cheater. And you're just onto the next one and you know you had that night, never spoken about again. Never. No additional context. And then the third one, he's like, there's also the ones that are the guys that are forced to cheat. And the host is like, what do you mean, forced to cheat? You know, you're on the road for seven days. You come back, your wife's bitching about, you know, 10 different things, like, they're not in the mood to, you know, to be intimate with you, to take care of, you know, and all of a sudden you're just like, well, what the am I doing? Like, I'm on the road. I'm trying to be good, and I come home to this. Right.

[E]

Rationalize.

[F]

And you. They rationalize it. And, you know, I think that's like. That's like. That was a really interesting list, I thought.

[C]

Yeah, that is interesting. If there's, like, intimacy missing in the relationship and one half of the relationship is not fulfilled, instead of keeping, like, pushing each other away, away, away, away, come together and figure out, how do we solve this problem before mistakes are made?

[A]

Right.

[C]

Is that basically, like.

[F]

I think communication's, like, really important there too, if there's something, you know, to your point that you're not getting, like, if you don't tell the person that you can't fix problems that you don't know exist.

[C]

Yeah.

[H]

Because in all honesty, I think a lot of problems that arise in a relationship is because they. One feels like they're not fulfilled. Right. And so then there's a pile of issues that palate because you have a lack of communication. And I mean, I get it. It's hard to have difficult conversations with your other half. It's hard. I mean, it's much easier to have conversations with your friends. Right. Because there's, like, no judgment and there's no emotions. But when it comes to your husband or your wife and you're talking about something serious like this, it's like, well, it's your fault. No, it's your fault. It's blame. You know, all you do is blame each other. And where is that going to go?

[E]

Nowhere.

[H]

Nowhere. So there needs to be.

[E]

The ego needs to be checked.

[C]

Correct.

[H]

Correct. And most people don't know how to do that. I mean, I have a hard time doing that. I'm not gonna lie.

[E]

Well, I think the bottom line is don't cheat, folks.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[E]

One takeaway here. Life's a lot easier when you take the high road and you communicate.

[F]

Like Steven said, we're just being honest, being the same person, like, all the time. It's just, you know, you asked earlier about the, like, red flags that you see, and I remember my very first Job like trading on the floor of the Chicago Board of Trade. First day of work, the managing partner of the firm goes, there's only two things we could fire you for. One is if you're ever late, opening bell's at 8:30. Never miss that. But two, if you lie about anything, it's like if you lie about little things, you lie about big things. And I've just seen that at work in relationships, that just is consistently true.

[C]

Yeah. If you just are honest about it, there's nothing that I think a couple can't overcome. Right. And the couple might just decide, hey, then we should split up. You know, and that's better than just like going down this horrible path of lies and deception and pain. It's like just what the hell does that lead to? You know what I mean?

[E]

One lie leads to another, one lie leads to another.

[C]

So just be honest.

[E]

Yeah, that's it.

[C]

Don't cheat. And if you're gonna cheat, tell the

[F]

person who's got the mental capacity to remember all those. Yeah.

[E]

The older you get too, the harder it is.

[G]

Person first.

[H]

People say in reality, hey, guys, or hey, by the way, I'm gonna cheat tomorrow. Just letting you know.

[C]

But imagine if they did.

[H]

It would solve a lot of problems. I would be like, thanks for telling me.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

See, Janet, I've told you I have a BS in relationship expertise psychology, because. Absolutely.

[E]

Thank you guys so much. We appreciate the time.

[C]

Thanks you guys. Thanks for listening, everyone, for listening. Bye, guys.

[G]

Bye.

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