How Do You Keep A Long-Term Relationship Spicy?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bill and Giuliana: The Podcast

Episode: How Do You Keep A Long-Term Relationship Spicy?

Release Date: July 21, 2026
Host: Giuliana (solo; Bill is on vacation)
Guest: Vanessa Marin, Licensed Sex Therapist, co-host of Pillow Talks

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Overview

This lively episode, guest hosted by Giuliana while her husband Bill is on vacation, tackles the age-old conundrum: how do you keep passion and intimacy alive in a long-term relationship? Joined by acclaimed sex therapist Vanessa Marin, Giuliana opens up about the challenges of keeping her own 20-year marriage spicy and solicits expert insights, practical advice, and actionable tips for listeners at any stage of relationship. The episode covers everything from quality vs. quantity of sex, vulnerability, communication, the power of novelty, and even whether "playing hard to get" still works after decades together—all in an open, non-judgmental, and often humorous tone.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introducing Vanessa Marin and Her Approach

[02:37 – 04:40]

• Vanessa Marin is a sex therapist focused on helping couples in long-term relationships nurture their intimacy.
• She offers online guides and courses so couples can access support in the privacy and comfort of their homes.
• Most couples come worried about not having enough sex or desire mismatches.

“People are really focused on frequency. And usually they'll come to us with the question, how much sex should we be having? …But actually, what we have found…is to look at the quality of the sex that you're having, because it doesn't make any sense for us to talk about desire if you're not having sex that's worth desiring.”
— Vanessa Marin, [05:04]

2. The "Mushy Broccoli" Problem: Quality Over Quantity

[05:14 – 08:09]

• Many focus on an ideal "number" of sexual encounters rather than improving their quality.
• If “mushy broccoli sex” (boring, not worth craving) is all that's available, it's natural not to want more.
• Couples should define for themselves what "great sex" means—no universal standard.

“Do you ever find yourself craving a bowl of overly steamed, mushy, unseasoned broccoli? Of course not...A lot of us are having some mushy sex. Mushy broccoli sex.”
— Vanessa Marin, [06:32]

• Giuliana relates this to being too busy or tired, especially for parents, and confesses she and Bill often fall into this trap.

3. Redefining "Great Sex" and Letting Go of Perfection

[08:09 – 10:51]

• The idea that sex needs to be a big production (candles, music, elaborate plans) is unrealistic for most.
• Instead, focus on what's “good enough sex”—pleasurable, connecting, even if it’s not mind-blowing every time.
• Most people, even tired, feel glad they had sex afterward.

“On a day to day basis, I think it's so much more important for us to focus on what's good enough sex…It's not going to be the best sex we've ever had, but it's still good enough that we get to have that experience of feeling pleasure, of feeling connected with each other.”
— Vanessa Marin, [09:28]

4. Post-Sex Euphoria, Communication, and Desire Discrepancy

[10:51 – 14:26]

• After sex, people often say “why don’t we do that every day?” but life gets in the way.
• Open communication is critical—on what both partners want from sex, and what “great sex” means for each.
• Vanessa recommends using the podcast as a conversation starter with your own partner.

“If anything takes two to tango, it's this, right?”
— Giuliana, [12:25]

• Vanessa’s book Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Every Couple Should Have helps demystify how to communicate about sex, turning what often starts as a negative, fraught issue into a positive, foundational habit.

5. Sex as Connection, Not Obligation

[15:36 – 18:26]

• Long-term couples often forget sex is about wanting and choosing each other—not just an obligatory marital task.
• Both partners need to feel desired and connected, or resentment and distance can grow.

“We all want to feel wanted. And especially in a long term relationship, we want to feel like our partner is still choosing us, still desires us, still wants to be with us.”
— Vanessa Marin, [17:19]

• Giuliana shares that even in her long marriage, her husband wonders if she’s still attracted to him if intimacy wanes.

6. Little Things Matter: The 72-Hour Rule

[19:55 – 22:02]

• Relationships thrive on small, frequent reminders of attraction and appreciation; don’t let affection or flirtation fade.
• Vanessa recommends the 72-hour rule—not how often to have sex, but how often to acknowledge your sexual connection.

“Every 72 hours, you have to at least acknowledge your sex life...It could be literally something as simple as, ‘Hey, I just want to acknowledge this week has been so busy...But I just want you to know I'm still thinking about you.’”
— Vanessa Marin, [20:51]

7. Navigating Low Sex Drive & Redefining Desire

[26:16 – 29:58]

• Aging, stress, and hormonal changes naturally shift libido; Giuliana describes her 51-year-old self’s struggle with low desire.
• Vanessa reframes desire as “willingness”—you don’t have to wait to feel desire, just to be open to connection, much like going to dinner with a friend you love but aren’t super eager to see in the moment.

“Desire is really overrated. I think we put pressure on ourselves to feel the desire for sex in a way that we don't put pressure on ourselves to feel desire for anything else in our lives.”
— Vanessa Marin, [27:37]

8. The Art of Initiation (and When to Have Sex)

[30:36 – 32:09]

• “It’s been a while” is not a sexy initiation; initiation should feel inviting and fun.
• Reading your partner’s signals and starting “foreplay” earlier in the day is more effective; end-of-day sex is often least successful because everyone’s exhausted.

“Initiation needs to feel like an invitation.”
— Vanessa Marin, [30:54]

• Giuliana jokes about her husband Bill’s “energy shift” and how nonverbal cues can be clear signals.

9. Sex Is an Emotional Need for Men Too

[32:09 – 33:20]

• Many men experience sex as their main, sometimes only, opportunity to be emotionally vulnerable and connected.

“Men tell us, the only time in my entire life that I feel comfortable being vulnerable is during sex...If we are able to see sex for what it really is for men, I think it just opens us up so much.”
— Vanessa Marin, [32:46]

10. Flirting, Playfulness, and “Playing Hard to Get” in Marriage

[33:20 – 38:10]

• Giuliana wonders if “playing hard to get” can keep things spicy after 20 years.
• Vanessa reframes this as “flirting”—keeping an element of play, teasing, and anticipation alive, rather than shutting down connection to avoid unwanted sex.
• Touch, kissing, and flirtation outside of sex are key to differentiating partners from roommates.

“We have a flirting epidemic in relationships...Flirting with our partner was one of the best things. It was so fun to have that, you know, that banter, that energy, that will we or won't we kind of vibe.”
— Vanessa Marin, [35:06]

• Couples should feel free to arouse, tease, and build anticipation, even if every touch doesn’t lead to sex.

11. Overcoming Predictability: Spicing Things Up (and Vulnerability)

[42:38 – 46:53]

• Over time, couples often become more vanilla and predictable, partly to avoid vulnerability.
• Newness and “taking risks”—even just revisiting past favorite activities or changing routines—is backed by science for keeping passion alive.

“You cannot have great sex without being vulnerable. So I want everybody listening to this to really be honest with themselves and think to themselves, when was the last time I was truly vulnerable during sex?”
— Vanessa Marin, [45:27]

• “Spicing things up” doesn’t have to mean kink or toys—just bringing back fun, old moves or switching up the order of things can be powerful, especially for women, who according to research, often crave more novelty than men.

12. “Sleep Divorce” — Couples in Separate Bedrooms

[46:53 – 48:51]

• More couples are sleeping separately (“sleep divorce”), often for practical reasons.
• Vanessa is fine with it, provided there’s a small, daily, non-sexual ritual for intimacy (e.g., a cuddle or chat before bed), which maintains that emotional connection.

13. Practical Resources and Closing Thoughts

[49:00 – 51:05]

• Vanessa shares where to find her online resources and courses, including the Ultimate Foreplay Guide and Ultimate Sex Positions Guide (vmtherapy.com).
• She and her husband Xander post playful, lighthearted sex content on Instagram @vanessaandxander, making sex “fun, not heavy.”
• Giuliana commits to following and recommends listeners do the same to keep these topics fresh in mind.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “If anything takes two to tango, it’s this, right?” — Giuliana [12:25]
• “Desire is really overrated...think more about the experience afterward. That feeling of, 'I’m so glad I did it.'” — Vanessa Marin [27:37]
• “Every 72 hours, you have to at least acknowledge your sex life…That short little sentence really makes all the difference in the world.” — Vanessa Marin [20:51]
• “Flirting with our partner was one of the best things…Most couples in long term relationships, their version of flirting is: What do you want to watch tonight?” — Vanessa Marin [35:06]
• “You cannot have great sex without being vulnerable.” — Vanessa Marin [45:27]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---|---|---| | Vanessa introduction & services | [02:37 – 04:40] | | The problem with “mushy broccoli sex” | [05:14 – 08:09] | | What does “good enough sex” look like? | [08:09 – 10:51] | | Post-sex connection, communication, and “Sex Talks” | [10:51 – 14:26] | | Sex as connection, not duty | [15:36 – 18:26] | | The “72-hour rule” for sexual connection | [19:55 – 22:02] | | Low desire and “willingness” mindset | [26:16 – 29:58] | | Initiation and reading the room | [30:36 – 32:09] | | Men’s emotional needs and sex | [32:09 – 33:20] | | Flirting and playfulness in marriage | [33:20 – 38:10] | | Breaking out of sexual routine | [42:38 – 46:53] | | Sleep divorce & end-of-day rituals | [46:53 – 48:51] | | Resources and closing | [49:00 – 51:05] |

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Takeaways

• Quality over quantity: Focus less on frequency and more on making sexual connection enjoyable and meaningful for both.
• Communication is key: Start positive, regular conversations about sex—don’t wait for problems.
• It’s the small things: Frequent, simple reminders of desire and appreciation keep connection alive.
• Novelty matters: Trying new or even forgotten things can reignite passion—vulnerability is required!
• Flirting shouldn’t fade: Keep up playful touch and teases; it’s about more than just sex.
• Sex is emotional, not just physical: For both partners, feeling wanted is crucial to joy and connection.
• Practical resources can help: Downloadable guides, podcasts, and fun Instagram content can help keep intimacy a part of everyday life.

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Additional Resources

• Vanessa Marin’s Guides: vmtherapy.com
• Instagram: @vanessaandxander
• Book: “Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Every Couple Should Have” (2023)

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If you want to keep your long-term relationship spicy, this episode assures you: you’re not alone, it doesn’t have to be perfect, it should feel fun and connecting, and with just a little intention and vulnerability, everyone can find their own recipe for passion—no candlelight required!

Transcript

[Vanessa Marin]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

On Raiders of the Lost podcast, we explore cinema like no one else, including huge interviews with stars like Ryan Gosling on project Hail Mary.

[Chelsea Handler]

It was like the Jaws shark. Didn't always work, came with its own problems. That's what made it great.

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

The cast of Obsession on set.

[Vanessa Marin]

There was so much magic happening with each scene.

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

We were putting together deep dives into classics like 2001 A Space Odyssey or or Fight Club. Plus weekly episodes on all industry news. Listen to Raiders of the Lost podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more, follow raidersofthelostpodcast and ICTOC podcast network on TikTok.

[Lele Pons]

My first guest is Karen Tilton.

[Chelsea Handler]

Shakira, Luke and Yerim have surprises, many surprises.

[Lele Pons]

Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast where the group chat comes to life.

[Vanessa Marin]

What?

[Lele Pons]

You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst. It's lemonade. This is Sweet 305. Here, oversharing is encouraged. Listen to Suite 305 with Lele Pons on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Hey, Portlandia fans, Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here.

[Fred Armisen]

The dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form.

[Kerry Brownstein]

We're launching Podlandia AO Rewatch our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic charact, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made.

[Fred Armisen]

And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised. Not just words, but a song.

[Vanessa Marin]

Well, I thought you were all gonna write a song.

[Kerry Brownstein]

I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia Aao rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ari Chambers]

What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.

[Sam J]

Hey, what's up, y'? All? It's your girl, Sam J.

[Ari Chambers]

And we're the host of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from Together and I heart women's sports.

[Sam J]

We're breaking down the biggest headlines.

[Ari Chambers]

Naomi Osaka showing out shout outs to you, Naomi. The viral moments.

[Sam J]

I've been obsessed with Chrisean Rock's boxing journey.

[Vanessa Marin]

She looks good.

[Sam J]

Her combos are swift.

[Ari Chambers]

And the stories everyone's talking about across

[Sam J]

women's sports because everyone Watches women's sports. Listen to everyone. Watches women's Sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Chelsea Handler]

Welcome to Bill and Juliana the Podcast. Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. So Bill and I have been together for almost 20 years. That's 20 years of making love to the same person. And so today's mission is. Is kind of like between the sheets, if you will. What I want to tackle today is how do we keep our long term relationship spicy? And I think this applies to whether you are in a long term relationship or not. Because even if you're just, let's say you just got married or you're dating someone right now, like, how do you keep it spicy?

[Fred Armisen]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

So people often, you know, feel embarrassed talking about this topic. I am not one of those people. I wonder if Bill. Bill, who, by the way, is off today. Bill is. Well, I'm not gonna lie. He's not at work. He's on vacation. So Bill is on vacation. God love him. But. So I am kind of taking over the show today. But I wonder if Bill was here, would he be embarrassed? I feel like he wouldn't because he has been unhinged on this podcast since we started it. So it would be fun to hear what he has to say. But I'll. Well, I'll just improvise for the both of us. So joining us today is someone who knows a lot about this topic. She is like a total expert in this. She's a licensed sex therapist and a psychotherapist. Her name is Vanessa Marin. And Vanessa and her husband Xander host the number one rated sex podcast called Pillow Talks. So if anyone is gonna give me great advice today, it's going to be Vanessa. Vanessa, thank you so much for joining me.

[Vanessa Marin]

Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to get to chat today.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know. So, Vanessa, me too. So you are like, you've written books, you have this incredible podcast, and you used to see couples Right. In person, but now you guys, because you've gotten so busy and so in demand, but people can still see you.

[Sam J]

Right?

[Chelsea Handler]

Like, how does that work?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, we offer online guides and courses. We have things like our ultimate foreplay guides, ultimate sex positions, the art of initiation. And we built those out because I realized, well, first of all, my practice filled up right away and I wanted to be able to help more people. But I also realized this is a pretty tough ask to get people to come in person, talk about the most intimate details of their lives.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

And we realized being able to put things online where you can get access to those same tools and resources, but have the comfort and privacy of your own own home was actually a much better fit.

[Chelsea Handler]

So who are you finding, like, the need from the most? Is it. Is it a couple that's been together a long time that is looking to spice things up? And when a couple does come to you, where do you start with them?

[Vanessa Marin]

Xander and I have been together almost 19 years, so we're right behind you and Bill. And as the business has progressed, I've realized that I really love working with couples in long term relationships where you have seen it all. You've been so annoyed with each other at the. The socks right next to the hamper and the dish on top of the dishwasher instead of just right into it. I wanted to help people answer this question of how do we still want to have sex with each other even after all these years and all these annoyances and just the challenges of daily life? So that's really our specialty. And when people first come to us, yeah, mostly what they will come to us with is the thought, you know, I don't have a desire for sex anymore. Or our desire feels really mismatched. We're just not having it. People are really focused on frequency. And usually they'll come to us with the question, how much sex should we be having? We all want to know that magic number that, like, if we just hit that quota, everything will be okay, we'll be fine. But actually, what we have found to be so much more interesting of a starting place is to look at the quality of the sex that you're having, because it doesn't make any sense for us to talk about desire if you're not having sex that's worth desiring. So I call this the mushy broccoli problem. Like, do you ever find yourself craving a bowl of overly steamed, mushy, unseasoned broccoli? Of course not. And do you think anything is wrong with you for not wanting mushy broccoli? Obviously not. It makes perfect sense. Right? But we have to be honest with ourselves. A lot of us are having some mushy sex. Mushy broccoli sex. And then we're beating ourselves up for not wanting more of it. So we have to look at the quality first before we can look at the quantity.

[Chelsea Handler]

What do you mean by quality? Is that, are we talking, like, you have to plan a whole thing out and, like, there's candlelight and some soft rock playing, and then you have, like, toys and the lighting is perfect. Because can I be honest? I can't. That's like, I feel like I'm just so busy. Like, we're so busy. And I think. And you've probably heard this so much like. And now, granted, we have one child who's 13. One of my best friends has six kids. The other one just had her third. Like, I think I am tired from parenting. I can imagine most people are incredibly tired from parenting. So between that career, all of it. So what do you mean by quality? What are we talking about here?

[Vanessa Marin]

This is such an interesting question, because if you ask the average person, do you want to have a great sex life? Most people will say, yeah, absolutely. But then if you ask them, okay, what does that mean to you? What does great sex mean to you? Most people will just be deer in headlights. They don't even know how to answer that question. So I think that's a really important starting point for all of us. And I would encourage everyone listening to this podcast, when you're done listening, take a moment to think about it, like, what does great sex mean to me? And see if you can just come up with, like, three words or three descriptors, three specifics about what it means to you. So, for example, like, you were giving. You were giving up a couple of the examples of, like, putting on the soft rug and. And putting the candles on. And for some people, that might be, oh, yes, that is the exact environment that I want to have. And other people are going to think, oh, soft rock candles. This feels so cheesy. I don't want to do that. So we've got to start identifying, like, what feels right for us. But I'm also really glad that you are willing to be vulnerable and share some personal details about your own life, too, because I think you're illustrating something that a lot of us get wrong about sex. We think that it has to be this big production. We've got to do all the things, and it's going to take all the time. And let's be real, most of us are exhausted. I've actually never worked with a couple who said, we just have so much free time and so much energy. What do we do with all of this? We're all exhausted and tired and our days are really filled. And so when we think about sex as having to be this huge production, it's game over from the beginning. We're too tired. We don't have the space for it. So I do think it's. It's valuable for us to try to carve time out and like sometimes have those special moments where we do go all in. Like, vacation is a great example. You know, who doesn't love vacation sex? When you just, you have that space and the energy and you're sleeping in. But on a day to day basis, I think it's so much more important for us to focus on what's good enough sex. Like what's something that it maybe is not going to, you know, it's not going to take a ton of time, it's not going to take a ton of effort. It's not going to be the best sex we've ever had, but it's still good enough that we get to have that experience of feeling pleasure, of feeling connected with each other. And we get to have that experience that I think is actually one of the most important parts of sex is right after. If you notice, like even those days where you were so tired or it just, you weren't really in the mood right after sex, the vast majority of us think, I'm so glad we did that. I think we think of that moment and what's the minimum that we could do to get to that moment? We'll have much better sex lives.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's so funny you say that. You're absolutely right. It's like we'll go through stages where we just like are so busy, we're just tired and we like lights out, not fooling around.

[Ari Chambers]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

For a while. And then when we do it, and it's usually Bill like being like, honey, it's been a while. I'm like, oh, okay. Because I'm just like, I'm always tired, tired. And then right after, I always go, we have to do that more often. Exactly. And I'll actually say, which is beyond laughable if you ask Bill. Cause he would be laughing right now. I always go, wait, why don't we do that every day? And he's like, I can't. He's like, hello. I'm looking at it. I'm looking at the reason we don't do it every day. Because, you know, but you're right. Right after. What is it? It's like that hormones release oxytocin.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oxytocin, yeah.

[Fred Armisen]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Look at me. I know. My science girl oxytocin is released. I've actually known that. I remember reading an article years ago and that's that feeling of like, like just that you can't get anywhere else right after. And it's that oxytocin. And so you have that feeling and it's like, euphoria. You're just like, oh, my gosh, that was so amazing. Like, we need to do this every day. And then you go back to your life and you don't do it every day. Most people. So I feel like a huge part of this, because it takes two to tango, is communication. It's like, what does the. It's not just what do you want or what constitutes great sex to you, but, like, what constitutes great sex sex to your partner? Because you guys have to be on the same page. I mean, if anything takes two to tango, it's this, right?

[Vanessa Marin]

Absolutely. So first, I want everybody listening to think of a few specifics for themselves, because you probably haven't ever thought about that question. Then I want you to ask your partner. So I love blaming podcasts as a way to open up a conversation so you can tell your partner, hey, I was listening to my favorite podcast today. Juliana had this guest on the Sex Therapist, and she asked us this question that was so fascinating. I've never thought about it before. And yeah, here are my answers. I'm really curious to know what your answers would be. And you can give your partner a little bit of time. They may not be able to answer it right on the spot, but that can be a great way for the two of you to start comparing notes and starting to talk more openly about your sex life. Because here's the thing about communication. We all know we should be doing it right. And you see it, you know, when you're up secretly googling in incognito mode, like, why aren't we having sex anymore? How to start having more sex. Like, it's in every article. Like, you have to talk to your partner. We all know that. But nobody ever talks to us about what we're supposed to say and how we're supposed to say it and when we say it. And, you know, what do we do if our partner responds poorly to it? So Xander and I actually wrote a literal book about this because I got so frustrated seeing that same advice over and over again. And we actually struggled in our own relationship, which was so challenging for me. Like, I'm in this field. I love this topic so much. And yet when we were going through challenges in our own sex life, I didn't know how to talk about it. So the book is actually everything. It's basically the opposite of everything that I actually did. And we learned better tools and techniques through mucking through it on our own. But it's called Sex Talks, the five conversations that every couple should Have. And it leads you through specific conversations. What to say, when to say it, how to say it, rather than just that generic like, just talk about it.

[Chelsea Handler]

I love that. When did you write that? When did that come out?

[Vanessa Marin]

That came out in 2023 and it was an instant New York Times bestseller. So it clearly resonated with a lot of people. Yeah, but one of the, you know, one of the mistakes people make when it comes to talking about sex is we don't want to do it because it feels scary and vulnerable. And so most people, their very first conversation about sexual is when something is just gotten so bad that you don't have any choice not to talk about it anymore. That actually was the first conversation. The first real conversation Xander and I had in our relationship was me telling him, why do you never want to have sex with me anymore? Not a great conversation. It did not go well. So when we start with something negative, that only reinforces our feeling that we don't want to talk about it. It feels scary and vulnerable and overwhelming. So instead, the book is really centered around how do we start talking about sex in a positive way first. So we build this foundation. We get comfortable with the topic. It even can feel fun to talk about it. And then once you have that foundation in place, talking about the trickier stuff actually feels a lot easier.

[Chelsea Handler]

And I think it's about. For a lot of people, as we talk about this, it's like reframing your mind. Right? Like, it's not sex, especially in a relationship of a long time.

[Fred Armisen]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

Or, you know, any committed relationship. Okay. It is important for a lot of reasons. Right. It's not just like, oh, I'm married, I'm in a long term relationship, I have to have sex frequently because it's like part of it's like what people do. It's also a way obviously to connect. It's a connection.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Right?

[Chelsea Handler]

It's an intimate connection. And I will tell you, as someone who's been married 20 years, I think what's important to note too is that, like, both people in the relationship have to kind of be fulfilled.

[Fred Armisen]

Right?

[Chelsea Handler]

It can't just be about one person being fulfilled. Because I think what starts to happen is. And I'll tell you as someone who's been married two decades, that, you know, we both get so busy, Bill and I, and I think like, in my head, I'm like, well, of course he knows I love him and I'm attracted to him. So. But sometimes it's like just also that feeling of like, the other person Feeling desirable, you know, and, and wanted that you want. It's not about like, we have to have sex because we're married and that's what couples do, or we're dating and that's what couples. It's also like, oh, wait, she wants to have sex with me, not she needs to have sex with me. Let's talk about that. Because there's a big difference when it comes to that. And I think that is very important because that's where problems start to happen and things can start to unravel in a relationship when there's a distinct difference, because there's a distinct difference between the two.

[Vanessa Marin]

We all want to feel wanted. And especially in a long term relationship, we want to feel like our partner is still choosing us, still desires us, still wants to be with us. It's really easy to fall into the roommate stage, to fall into taking each other for granted. And we are all desperately missing that feeling of being wanted by our partner. I think a lot of us, and especially us women, we have the tendency to think of sex as just this physical act. It's just body parts going into body parts. It's just about the release. And, you know, we have a lot of stereotypes about men that they, they want it wherever, whenever. They'll take whatever they can get. And we fail to recognize all of the emotional components to sex, all of the ways that it helps us feel more connected to each other, closer to each other. It's the one thing that we do with this one person. It's what differentiates us from being just friends, from being household co managers or co parents.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

So there's, it's so much more than just this physical act. And if we were able to recognize that, I think it would make a huge impact on so many relationships.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, you guys, I think that's really important. If you're listening, obviously this is something you've been thinking about, or maybe now you're thinking about it, you're like, huh, I stumbled on this podcast and yeah, this is interesting because, you know, I'm kind of going through this sort of thing because what does start to happen is, you know, you've been together a long time, you get into a routine. And I think there is, at least with Bill and I, I think what starts to happen with us is I just start to like, assume, of course, like, he knows that I think he's gorgeous and of course I want to fool around, but, like, I'm just tired. But of course he knows he's still desirable. But he has said it, he's like, what, are you not, are you not attracted to me? And that's. You don't want to, you know, we don't want to keep that going. You know what I mean? So I, you have to, like. And it's not just like, oh my God, I am attracted to you. Let's have sex right now. It's not about that. It's just about communication and being like, oh, wait a second, hold on, let me tell you why, of course I'm attracted to you, but I've been so busy. I'm tired. I'm going through this. I'm at an, you know, for some reason, you know, maybe it's my age, I'm going, whatever it is, perimenopause, menopause, whatever it is, talking about it together is so important.

[Sam J]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

Because otherwise you do. You can start to push the other person away. And that's really. That's scary. That's. You must see that a lot.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. Relationships are really all about the small things. It's, it's those little reminders to each other, those things that we just assume or take for granted. Like, he must know. He's gotta know. Yeah, but our partner needs to hear those things and we need to hear those things too. Right?

[Fred Armisen]

So it's.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, it's just being willing to say those things out loud, often repeating them. Don't. You can't, you know, like, we can't say I love you once and then we just assume. Partner knows. Right? I'm just never going to say it to them again. We, we said it on our wedding day. We'll never say it again. Like, no, we, we love saying I love you often. And I think if we also talk about our sex life and our attraction to each other, our desire for each other in that same sort of way, it's really beneficial. So I recommend that couples follow the 72 hour rule. And this is not about how often you have to have sex, but this is about how often you have to talk about sex.

[Ari Chambers]

All right?

[Vanessa Marin]

So every 72 hours, you have to at least acknowledge your sex life. So if you guys aren't having, could be literally something as simple as, hey, I just want to acknowledge this week has been so busy. I know we both have been feeling a little bit run down and, you know, we had the kids rehearsal and the dance recital and all of that. There just hasn't been the space for it. But I just want you to know I'm still thinking about you. I wish we had had time to conn And I'm looking forward and I think maybe Thursday would be a great day for us or even just, I hope sometime soon we can get back in the saddle with each other. So that short little sentence really makes all the difference in the world because it helps your partner know what's actually going on for you. Their brain doesn't have to spin out thinking, is she still attracted to me anymore? Does she still want me? Is she still into me? Like, they get to know that you are still thinking about it, then it still makes the space for their life's busy. Sometimes you're not going to be able to. So that's okay, but you just have to acknowledge it.

[Ari Chambers]

What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.

[Sam J]

Hey, what's up, y'?

[Lele Pons]

All?

[Sam J]

It's your girl, Sam J.

[Ari Chambers]

And we're the host of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from Together and I heart women's sports because, let's

[Sam J]

be real, women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days.

[Ari Chambers]

So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii.

[Sam J]

My first thought is, like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we?

[Chelsea Handler]

What are we eating?

[Ari Chambers]

The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire

[Sam J]

timeline and the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports.

[Ari Chambers]

Naomi Osaka showing out. She beat Sabalenka.

[Sam J]

Shout out to you, Naomi, you get the palm.

[Ari Chambers]

Naomi, you get the palm for that.

[Sam J]

Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's Sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Fred Armisen]

Hey, Portlandia fans.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here, you

[Fred Armisen]

know us, or rather, you know them. Tony and Candace, Nina and Lance. Spike and yes, the chicken.

[Kerry Brownstein]

We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia. AO rewatch our brand new podcast.

[Fred Armisen]

Each week, we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning, breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process.

[Kerry Brownstein]

How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it and

[Fred Armisen]

we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life, guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised, not just words, but a song.

[Vanessa Marin]

Well, I thought he was going to write. I thought you were all going to write a song.

[Kerry Brownstein]

I remember you thinking.

[Fred Armisen]

Listen to Podlandia Ayo rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lele Pons]

My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin Samira E. Gracie.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm so excited. On a bouncy bed, you have surprises, many surprises.

[Lele Pons]

Welcome to Suite 305 where the group

[Chelsea Handler]

chat comes to life.

[Lele Pons]

What up?

[Chelsea Handler]

Hola, amiga. Hola, mijor amiga. Hola, nuj.

[Lele Pons]

Yes. You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst lemonade. This is sweet. 305. Listen to suite 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Cultura podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. Every week the news gets worse, the world gets crazier, and Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible for you're the problem.

[Sam J]

If you come over here to play games, I' ma check you, okay? If you do some in the news that don't sound good, I'm a play.

[Chelsea Handler]

You join Yamanika Saunders as she breaks down the week's most problematic stories on her new podcast. You're the problem with Yamanika.

[Sam J]

Do you know I just found out who Sydney Sweeney was.

[Chelsea Handler]

New episodes weekly every Wednesday as part of my new network, the Dark Chelsea Network.

[Sam J]

If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of men do better or do less so

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't have to do so much.

[Chelsea Handler]

So join Yamaneika each episode as she answers one question. Who's the problem?

[Sam J]

I'm Yamaneika and I'm out. Listen to youo're the Problem with yamaneika on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm 51 and so definitely I don't have a drive like I used to, you know, at certain stages, like currently. That's why Bill's not here. Just kidding. I'm talking. I'm just kidding. But. But, you know, you go through stages where, like, your. Your sex drive is very low. Okay. And I have to say, like, Bill and I It's important. It's embarrassing. Like, you know, it's been embarrassing for me. Like, I, you know, I don't, like, want to. I'm not, like, bringing it up with Bill, all that. I wasn't bringing it up. Like, hey, by the way, I've, like, no sex drive right now, but, like, hopefully soon. Have a good day. You know, it's not you, it's me. But at the same time, I remember we had this conversation, and Bill was like, well, are you just going to, like, accept that or, like, why don't we, like, work together on that? Like, what can we do? Like, do you want to talk to your. Like, I'm really close to my ob gyn. I'm like, he's, like, the best. He's like a friend. I just love him so much. So, like, I can go to him, get advice. And he. And I did, and I got really good advice. But I think if I hadn't just told Bill the truth, you know what I mean? I would have just let it go and keep going and going. Bill would have been confused. I'm just, like, accepting this as my new me and new life. So kind of. Can you elaborate on that a little bit and what advice you give to women who are going through that kind of period in their life?

[Vanessa Marin]

My hot take is that desire is really overrated. I think we put pressure on ourselves to feel the desire for sex in a way that we don't put pressure on ourselves to feel desire for anything else in our lives. And to be clear, I'm only talking about, like, safe, healthy relationships here.

[Chelsea Handler]

Sure.

[Vanessa Marin]

But, like, let's think about. Let's think about, like, who has not had the experience of, you make a date with your friend. You guys are going to go out to dinner together. And the day rolls around, you were sitting on the couch, you're watching new Netflix show, you're in your pajamas already and thinking, oh, I hope my friend cancels on me. I would love to just stay here on the couch. I don't want to get up and have to change. But you force yourself to do it. You get up, you go out, have a great time with your friend. And you're heading back to your house thinking, I'm so glad I did that. We don't beat ourselves up or put pressure on ourselves in the same way with stuff like that. Like, we recognize that we can be kind of ambivalent about a lot of other things in our life, but we're not focusing so much on the desire. We're thinking More about the experience afterwards. That feeling of, I'm so glad I did it. And I think it would really benefit us to think about sex in the same way. So I like to. Rather than thinking about, like, am I super horny right now? I'm so turned on and I have to have sex. Because also, the thing is, like, let's think about when Xander initiates with me. It would be really weird if every single time he initiated with me, I was. I would say, oh, my God, what a coincidence. I just happen to be super horny at the exact same moment that you're super horny. What a great coincidence. Let's go have sex. Like, different people, we feel interested in it at different times. So instead, I think of it in terms of willingness. Am I open to being intimate? Am I open to getting started and seeing if I wind up getting turned on and wanting more? And I think about that experience afterwards, am I going to enjoy the sex that we have? Am I going to enjoy that feeling of lying together afterwards and feeling so close? So when I think about it in that way, it really lowers the bar. It lowers any pressure that I feel, and it makes me so much more willing and open to connect with him.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's interesting. So, like, explain just, like, if some. If this happens to someone tonight, okay, they're in bed. They're not. They're not. They weren't really in the mood getting into bed. They thought they were Gonna Watch episode 13 of season 13 of Love Island UK, and they were, like, perfectly content. That was, like, their night. The husband was gonna fall. Bill's gonna fall asleep. I'm gonna watch the new episode, you know, my episode of Love island uk, which, by the way, can't recommend it enough. And I thought that was gonna be my night. And next thing I know, Bill's like, you know, you can tell, like, he's doing all his, like, Bill stuff. Like, I wanna hook up. So what? So what? Exactly. So what would I do there?

[Sam J]

What would I do there?

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so first we're gonna work with Bill. Because it's been a while isn't exactly the sexiest initiation. Initiation needs to feel like an invitation. I mean, I just used an example of going out with a. If you called your friend and you're like, it's been a while. We should probably go out to dinner.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Right?

[Vanessa Marin]

Like, your. Your friends are not going to respond super well to that.

[Ari Chambers]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

Like, we might as well feel exciting.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

We can talk about the initiation styles model that I developed in a minute. But we want a more exciting invitation.

[Chelsea Handler]

And he does. All jokes aside, he does. He'll be like. You know, what I mean is, like, the thing that, like, you know, you're laying there, and they suddenly start getting closer to you than, you know, and you get it. Like, you have, you know, the signs of your partner, right?

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, yeah. Xander doesn't have to say a word. Like, the energy. I can just tell. I'm like, I know. I know what you're trying to do right now.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay. So when Bill's energy shifts and I'm, you know. And, like, Lorenzo and Jasmine are, like, just deciding on Love Island UK that, like, they might get back together, and I'm so into that moment, and all of a sudden, I can feel his energy over here, and he wants to, you know, like, make love.

[Sam J]

What?

[Chelsea Handler]

What? Like, what. What do I do there?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. We also work a lot with men on learning how to read the room a little bit better because.

[Ari Chambers]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

Men often have really bad timing. We also work with them on learning how to start foreplay earlier in the day, too. I actually think that trying to have sex at the very end of the night is the worst time to have sex, but we can get back to that, too.

[Chelsea Handler]

All right, so we need to stop that. Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

What I would recommend to you or any other woman in that moment is no matter how awkwardly or unskillfully or even annoyingly your partner is initiating in that moment, imagine that what he's actually saying to you is, I want to feel close to you right now.

[Chelsea Handler]

Aw, that's beautifully.

[Vanessa Marin]

What is happening again. It's. You know, we have all these stereotypes that men are just horn dogs, but men are not allowed to be emotional creatures in the same way that we women are. They've been socialized from very young not to have emotions, not to express emotions. It's not.

[Lele Pons]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

And not to be vulnerable. And men tell us. The only time in my entire life that I feel comfortable being vulnerable is during sex. The time that I feel the most open, the most connected, the most present, and in the moment is when I'm being intimate with my partner. And so if we are able to see sex for what it really is for men, I think it just opens us up so much like the reaction that you just had. You're like, oh, you know, yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I love that. Now tell me about this theory, Vanessa. And I didn't tell Vanessa this ahead of time, because I just see your thoughts just stick with me here. So I've actually tried this on Bill. Ready? So before I Met Bill. I was very. I had like, kind of these rules with guys and relationship and dating and, like, rules, okay? Like, I wouldn't kiss on the first date. I just had these rules, okay? And so I always, you know, and I stuck to my guns on this, so. And I kind of played very hard to get, okay? And that was like my thing. And I would give my friends advice and they had to play hard to get. Whether it was a guy texting you and you kind of like putting it on ice for a while. Like, I just had all these, like, little things I would do.

[Sam J]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

And then Bill and I got together. And so then sometimes he'll say to me, like, gosh, you know, it's been a while, honey. And I'll go, I'm playing hard to get, Bill. It's like, just cause we're married doesn't mean I shouldn't play hard to get. What do you think about this? And maybe you've never thought of this, Vanessa, or maybe you have because you are an expert in this, but is there something there with like. This is so stupid. Even as I'm saying this, I'm going, what the hell am I thinking? This is the worst idea. But is it the worst idea? Hold on. Just. I'm asking an expert, even though you're married, should we sometimes play hard to get? Which, by the way, is my sneaky way of like, not having to have sex that night. Cause I'm tired. Oh, I'm playing hard to get. But okay. I don't know. Is there anything there, Vanessa? Just appease me for a second.

[Sam J]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

I'll give you a generous interpretation of it here. We have a flirting epidemic in relationships. So if you think back to our dating stages, flirting with our partner was one of the best things. It was so fun to have that, you know, that banter, that energy that will we or won't we kind of vibe.

[Sam J]

Yes.

[Vanessa Marin]

And most couples in long term relationships, their version of flirting is. What do you want to watch tonight? Right. Don't do it with each other.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's what I'm doing, Vanessa. That's what I'm doing. Okay, go ahead.

[Vanessa Marin]

So that's where you're going with this, is your way of like trying to flirt? Trying to keep a little bit of, like the energy alive between the two?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, the mystery. The mystery. Just because we've been married 20 years, if I keep putting out every night, there's no more mystery. And he fell in love with me for the allure, the mystery that I was hard to get. And so I'm trying to bring that into the relationship. I'm trying to, like, you know, I'm trying to, like, start a thing. Vanessa, let's do it together. Let's write a book on being hard to get. And by the way, when I told Bill this, he goes, that is horrible advice. He goes, please do not ever say that again. I was like, what are you talking about, Bill? I'm playing hard to get. He's like, this isn't gonna end well. But anyways, no, he was joking.

[Vanessa Marin]

I will tell you, like, in all seriousness, what I hear very often from women is, you know, I don't even want to, like, touch my partner or kiss him because I don't want to give him the wrong idea. I don't want him to get excited, and then he'll be disappointed. So most couples will go the entire day with hardly any touch, hardly any kiss. And that is really what leads you into feeling like roommates. Because touching and kissing, that's the thing that differentiates us from just sharing space with another person, right?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

And I think that that is the exact wrong approach to take. I think that we should be getting our partner a little bit fired up, getting them a little bit excited.

[Chelsea Handler]

So flirting. You're going back to the whole flirting thing?

[Vanessa Marin]

I have a sense of flirting, and, you know, I would rather have a relationship where I feel that spark, that energy between the two of us, and I don't always get that fulfilled versus having a relationship where there's no contact, no touch, no kissing, unless we both agree beforehand that we're going to go all the way and have sex. So I say, let's bring back, like, bring back the touching, bring back the kissing. It's okay to get each other, like, a little bit fired up, but then not go through with it. That was one of the most fun parts of the early stages. Right? Like, we're getting going, but we're not finishing the whole thing.

[Chelsea Handler]

So you're saying my theory of playing hard to get 20 years into marriage kind of like flipping that on, like, reframing it to flirting. Kind of like. Like flirting, being cute and sexy and, like, having something to look forward to at the end of the day, like maybe being flirty earlier in the day. And tonight. Watch what happens, honey. I have a little surprise for us. Like, that kind of thing, right? Like you used to do when you were dating.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay. I like that.

[Ari Chambers]

What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.

[Sam J]

Hey, what's up, y'?

[Ari Chambers]

All?

[Sam J]

It's your girl, Sam J.

[Ari Chambers]

And we're the host of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from together. And I heart women's sports because, let's

[Sam J]

be real, women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days.

[Ari Chambers]

So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii.

[Sam J]

My first thought is, like, what's up with the. The snacks? Like, what are we.

[Chelsea Handler]

What are we eating?

[Ari Chambers]

The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire

[Sam J]

timeline and the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports.

[Ari Chambers]

Naomi Osaka showing out. She beat Sabalenka.

[Sam J]

Shout out to you, Naomi, you get the palm.

[Ari Chambers]

Naomi, you get the palm for that.

[Sam J]

Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's Sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Fred Armisen]

Hey, Portlandia fans.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here, you

[Fred Armisen]

know us, or rather, you know them. Tony and Candace, Nina and Lance, Spike and yes, the chicken.

[Kerry Brownstein]

We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia. AO rewatch our brand new podcast.

[Fred Armisen]

Each week, we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning, breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process.

[Kerry Brownstein]

How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it.

[Fred Armisen]

And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised, not just words, but a song.

[Vanessa Marin]

Well, I thought he was going to write. I thought you were all going to write a song.

[Kerry Brownstein]

I remember you thinking that.

[Fred Armisen]

Listen to Podlandia. AO rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lele Pons]

My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin Samira e Gracie.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm so excited. On the bouncy bed, you have surprises, many surprises.

[Lele Pons]

Welcome to suite 305, where the group

[Chelsea Handler]

chat comes to life.

[Lele Pons]

What up?

[Chelsea Handler]

Hola, amiga.

[Ari Chambers]

Hola, mejor.

[Sam J]

Amiga.

[Lele Pons]

Hola. You're the only person I know that loves a yellow Starburst. It's lemonade. This is suite 305. Listen to suite 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Cultura podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jake Brennan]

I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Disgraceland podcast, I explore the wild lies of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in one of the world's most notorious prisons. Imagine that you're Paul McCartney. It's 1980, you're an ex beetle, and you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons right there alongside Yakuza gangsters. And for a ridiculous charge or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of. Who is the artist? Lady Gaga? Gaga is being accused of doing the unthinkable to after allegedly stealing her music in style to become famous. And what about that time Blondie's Debbie Harry escaped a serial killer? The man who had given her that ride she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to Disgraceland on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Chelsea Handler]

I have to ask you this. So, like, what about when. Because this can happen even when you've been married, you know, a long time. So, like, when you, like, we'll joke around. Bill will be like, oh, remember when. When we first got married or when we were dating, you were so much more adventurous. You would do this, you like this, you do that. And like, for instance, like, lights on. And now I'm like, like. You know, it's funny, some couples get more comfortable as they go on some kind of, like, revert back to, like, eh, I only want to do it at night with the lights out. Or, you know, what are your thoughts on. On that? Like, what if one. One person in the relationship likes lights on and one likes lights off? What do you do? Do you compromise with a little candlelight? Like, what do we do here? Like, you know. Cause you have to think about these things too, right? Because you're not gonna agree on every single thing together.

[Vanessa Marin]

You know, couples have the tendency to get so much more vanilla the longer they've been together.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

So what happens is, at the beginning of the relationship, we're figuring each other out. How do our bodies fit? What do we like doing together? And we're, like, finding our ideal routine, which is Great. But then over time, the ideal routine really starts to narrow down to the point where it gets super predictable.

[Fred Armisen]

Right.

[Vanessa Marin]

Most women can script out for you exactly what sex looks like. It's like it's a few seconds of kissing. There's a little boob groping, maybe the hands go down between the legs, and then we're on to intercourse. And it's a couple minutes, and then we roll. You know, it's like, who gets excited for that? That is the definition of mushy broccoli sex. Right. But I think it happens because we stop taking risks with each other. Weirdly, the longer you've been with somebody, the harder it starts feeling to be vulnerable in front of them. We don't want to be seen as doing something new or taking a risk. We get so comfortable with how we are and to the point where we are really starting to damage our connection because we don't want to be vulnerable. So, you know, everybody's heard the advice to spice it up. And it sounds like really cheesy advice, but it actually has science behind it that we need to do new things with our partners. We need to mix things up in order to keep us on our toes, to keep us feeling interested and excited. You cannot have great sex without being vulnerable. So I want everybody listening to this to really be honest with themselves and think to themselves. When was the last time I was truly vulnerable during sex? When was the last time I took a risk during sex? If you can't remember something.

[Chelsea Handler]

No.

[Vanessa Marin]

If you don't have an answer that comes to mind, I don't think I can. Yeah, that's a good sign that it's time to mix things up. And it does not mean. So, okay. A lot of people will hear me say, spice things up, and they think, oh, my God, now we've got to get the whips and chains out, and

[Chelsea Handler]

we've got to get to.

[Vanessa Marin]

That's where our brains go to. Right. But that does not have to be the only way to mix things up. Of course, if you want to do that, go ahead and do that. But mixing things up could be just bringing some stuff back that you used to do earlier in your relationship that you haven't done in a while. Doesn't need to be a brand new thing that you've never done before. It could be, you know, oh, man, we used to spend a lot more time on oral sex. And I can't even remember the last time we had oral sex. It could be, oh, there was that position that we did that one time that actually was really fun, but I don't know why we never repeated that. Okay, so it's okay if it's something that you've done before.

[Chelsea Handler]

Interesting.

[Vanessa Marin]

But we do need to be taking risks and being vulnerable with each.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's not just so much like, oh, bringing, like, toys or lotions and potions and things like that. And you're saying even just going back and being like, oh, it's like a position we haven't done in a while or something. Okay, I got that. I like that right there.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. Start with stuff that you've already done, because that feels easier. You know you've already done it. It's not brand new. And that'll give you the confidence to keep going and trying other things. But we actually have research show knowing that women are the ones who need more novelty in relationships than men are.

[Chelsea Handler]

Vanessa, before I let you go, what are your thoughts on couples who start to sleep in separate bedrooms for different reasons? Like, it could be anything, right? They have different sleep schedules. One watches tv, one doesn't. They're like, ah, he knows I love him. She knows I love her. Let's just sleep in our separate bedroom.

[Sam J]

What.

[Chelsea Handler]

What are your thoughts on that and in terms of how that applies to the conversation we're having today?

[Vanessa Marin]

This is the sleep divorce. Sleep divorces are really on the rise.

[Chelsea Handler]

Is that dangerous in your eyes, in terms of, like, the maintaining a healthy sex life?

[Vanessa Marin]

I think there's something really intimate about having a moment at the end of the day together. So I'm okay with couples sleeping separately because there are a lot of valid reasons for that, like, totally different schedules. Maybe someone's got horrific snoring. Maybe there are babies. You know, there are a lot of perfectly understandable reasons, but what I would say is, if you're going to sleep separately, make sure you have some sort of ritual at the end of the day. And again, I don't think it should be sex, because I think that sex is. That's the worst time to have sex is the very end of the day. But some sort of little ritual. It could be two minutes, doesn't need to be a big deal. Or maybe you both just crawl into bed together and you spend two minutes cuddling or two minutes talking about how your day was, but do something to wrap up the day together.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay? And you know what I just thought of? You know what? Bill and I sometimes sleep in separate rooms because of that schedule and that sort of thing. You could even make that part of this. Flirting and the spiciness so, like, I go, good night, Bill. Oh, no, I'm not in the mood. Yeah, no, good night.

[Sam J]

Good night.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, see you tomorrow. No, I still think you're attractive, but I'm just not in the mood tonight. And then 10 minutes later, I knock on the door and I go, did someone order chocolate? Or like, special delivery? And I come in and like, you kind of make it sexy. You know what I mean?

[Vanessa Marin]

That could be very fun. I think he would like that a lot.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, all right, I'll tell him. All right, Vanessa, thank you so much. If people want to get your online guides, where do they go for that?

[Vanessa Marin]

They can go to vmtherapy.com it's my initials, VM T-H-E-R-A P Y dot com. Our most popular one is the ultimate foreplay guide, which has over a hundred unique techniques. Weeks we have gotten the best feedback. People will tell us, like, I use that on my husband. And he was literally speechless for 10 minutes afterwards. Those are very fun. And it's just a fun place to start. It's not, you know, nothing's wrong. Nobody's having to have any serious conversations. It's just pure fun. And our ultimate sex positions are very, very fun as well. So I would definitely recommend checking those out. And we'd also love to connect with anyone from your community on Instagram. We're at Vanessa and Xander. Xander's with an X sex. And we make a lot of content there specifically to open up conversations between partners. So if you want to get talking with your partner, want this to feel like a more light hearted topic in your relationship, because it should. Sex shouldn't have to feel serious and heavy and scary. It should feel playful and light and fun. You can go check us out there too.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm literally. Wait, hold on. I'm not kidding. I'm doing it right now. And let me tell you why. I'm going to follow you right now on Instagram. Vanessa. And then a N D and then Xander.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yes, exactly. We make a lot of ridiculous content too.

[Lele Pons]

We.

[Vanessa Marin]

We act out the worst sex positions we've ever found on the Internet.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my God, really? Hold on, Vanessa. Okay, so here it is. Vanessa and Xander. Okay, so I'm going to follow, oh, 1.3 million followers. You go, okay, I'm following you because you know why? Because what if I forget like, to do all of this and then having following you on Instagram now you're just gonna pop up and it's gonna be fun videos and it's like you Know what I mean? And that's the name of the game, you guys, is to just like, you have to make this part of your everyday life or every other day life, you know, like that you're just. This has gotta be top of mind, especially for a lot of people who just, like, have forgotten about it. And by those people, I mean me. So I'm gonna be better about it. Vanessa, you're the best. Thank you so much for joining me. I'll fill Bill in on the conversation for sure, but thank you so much. This was awesome.

[Vanessa Marin]

Thanks for having me. All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher and the Mango Pineapple with Popping Boba to crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire six? All new drinks are here now at McDonald's.

[Chelsea Handler]

Refreshers contain caffeine.

[Lele Pons]

My first guest is Caris Hilton.

[Chelsea Handler]

Shakira, Luke and Yerim have surprises, many surprises.

[Lele Pons]

Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast where the group chat comes to life. What up? You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst. It's lemonade. This is Sweet305. Here, oversharing is encouraged. Listen to Suite 305 with Lele Pons on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

On Raiders of the Lost podcast, we explore cinema like no one else, including huge interviews with stars like Ryan Gosling on Project Hail Mar.

[Chelsea Handler]

It was like the Jaws shark. Didn't always work, came with its own problems. That's what made it great.

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

The cast of Obsession.

[Chelsea Handler]

On set, there was so much magic happening with each scene.

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

We were putting together deep dives into classics like 2001 A Space Odyssey or Fight Club, plus weekly episodes on all industry news. Listen to Raiders of the Lost podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more, follow aidersofthelostpodcast and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Hey, Portlandia fans, Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here.

[Fred Armisen]

The dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form.

[Kerry Brownstein]

We're launching Podlandia AO Rewatch our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made.

[Fred Armisen]

And we'll also be joined by the people who help bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised, not just words, but a song about.

[Vanessa Marin]

Well, I thought you were all going

[Raiders of the Lost Podcast Host]

to write a song.

[Kerry Brownstein]

I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia Aao rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Vanessa Marin]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.