How Often is it OK to get a massage?

Summary

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Bill and Giuliana: The Podcast

Episode: "How Often is it OK to get a massage?"
Date: May 26, 2026
Guest Expert: Dr. Sterling Richards, PhD - Massage Therapist, Professor, and Human Performance Specialist

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Bill and Giuliana tackle one of the internet’s most-searched questions: How often is it too often to get a massage? With their signature blend of humor, honesty, and curiosity, the duo explores everything massage-related—from frequency and technique to etiquette and embarrassing moments. Their guest, Dr. Sterling Richards, brings both expert knowledge and candid stories, ensuring listeners get answers based on both science and real-world experience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Too Much” Massage Debate

• Bill’s Position: “I don’t think you can [overdo it]. I’m a very active person. I run, I lift weights, I ski, I wakesurf, wakeboard, you know, so I’m a little more active so my muscles get beat up.” (03:56)
• Giuliana’s Position: “But you would love a massage every other day...we just want to know, is it ever too much?” (04:15)
• Expert Insight:
  • “Can you get it too much? The answer is yes, you can, but...depends on what kind of massage and the person’s needs.” — Sterling Richards (07:40, 08:01)
  • High frequency is sometimes appropriate (post-surgery, injury) but not for everyone. The body needs recovery time, especially after deep work.

2. Soreness, Bruising & Intensity

• Why Are You Sore After Massage?
  • “It's almost like a workout...your body is dealing with the manual manipulation...that change becomes a little uncomfortable.” — Sterling (08:01)
  • Soreness should fade within a day. Longer-lasting soreness means a massage was too intense.
• Bruising:
  • “I have bruised people...especially for intense work on injuries...But if you’re bruising often, usually it’s too intense.” — Sterling (09:25, 09:47)

3. Massage Duration & Practitioner Endurance

• Session Length:
  • 60 minutes is standard; 90 minutes is “common and beneficial;” up to 2 hours for larger body types or deeper work (10:14).
• Massager's Physical Limits:
  • “I personally can’t do more than about four hours in a day.” — Sterling (11:09)
  • Importance of using elbow, knees, and body weight—not just hands—to avoid fatigue (12:33)

4. Techniques: Fun & Function

• Different Techniques Used:
  • Sterling sometimes uses his knee for extra pressure on larger clients. (13:33-13:45)
  • Giuliana tried using elbows and even her heel: “It was like a horse’s hoof pedicure.” (13:13-13:21)
• Fascial Release/Scraping:
  • “For some people with pain in their calves or Achilles, scraping...relieves tightness where general massage doesn’t work.” (24:14, 24:38, 25:31)

5. Massage “Etiquette”: Chatting, Embarrassing Moments, and Cleanliness

• Talking vs. Silence:
  • Bill: “I want to just chill...I don’t say a word.” (14:25, 14:45)
  • Giuliana: “I talk the whole time.” (14:46)
  • Sterling enjoys both—quiet time lets him focus, conversation makes time fly. (15:27-15:52)
• Embarrassing Moments:
  • Flatulence: “Either they acknowledge it immediately...or pretend like it didn’t happen. I, as the professional, always follow the lead.” — Sterling (19:44-19:57)
  • Involuntary Arousal: “It’s not a big deal...it happens more than you think. As a therapist, it’s totally natural and common.” — Sterling (20:36, 21:05)
  • Incontinence: “There are people that are more likely...especially women who’ve had a child or men with prostate surgery...Don’t panic, don’t freak out. It’s totally not uncommon.” — Sterling (32:34, 33:30)

6. Water, Wrinkles & Recovery—Massage Myths Busted

• Do you need to drink water after?
  • “Water helps re-regulate fluid balance after manual manipulation...not that toxins are released. It’s more of a hydration and lymphatic reset.” — Sterling (34:33-35:37)
• Does massage create wrinkles or sagging?
  • “No...skin changes are related to collagen and elastin. Physical contact actually stimulates their function, may tighten skin.” — Sterling (35:51-36:39)

7. Price Points & The Business of Massage

• What should you expect to pay?
  • “It's all based on the market...$60/hr to $300/90min and up, especially at hotels/spas.” — Sterling (36:59-38:11)
  • “At the spa, you’re paying the upcharge for saunas, steam, amenities—not always for a better massage.” — Giuliana (38:11)
• A ‘Bad’ Recipient:
  • Not communicating your needs or being honest about pressure makes for a bad experience. “You can be a bad recipient if you go in with expectations and aren’t clear.” — Sterling (38:34-39:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Frequency Debate:
  • “Can you get too many massages? ...the answer is yes.” — Sterling Richards (40:02)
  • “You just saved us so much money. Literally a salary.” — Giuliana (40:03)
• Massage Table Conversation:
  • “I talk the whole time.” — Giuliana (14:46)
  • “I improve my skill...with Bill because I’m focused on that rather than a conversation.” — Sterling (15:32-15:52)
• Funniest Moment—Feet Talk:
  • “He has the most beautiful man toes I have ever laid eyes on. Or sucked. Just kidding. I’ve never sucked his toes in my life.” — Giuliana (41:47)
  • “They are good looking feet. I mean, that’s my best feature.” — Bill (42:55)
• On Embarrassing Client Experiences:
  • “If this happens, don’t panic. Don’t freak out, it’s something that has happened before...it’s not a big deal.” — Sterling (33:40)

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Key Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------|------------| | Opening Massage Frequency Debate | 03:33-04:36| | Dr. Sterling’s Intro & Credentials | 06:58-07:10| | Types of Soreness After Massage | 07:37-08:08| | On Bruising & Intensity | 09:19-09:59| | Session Length Advice | 10:14-11:04| | Physical Limits for Therapists | 11:07-11:49| | Alternative Techniques | 12:33-13:45| | Chatty vs. Quiet Recipients | 14:25-15:52| | Handle Awkward Moments (Toots/Arousal/Incontinence) | 19:17-21:51, 32:14-34:07| | Scraping & Fascial Release | 24:14-26:29| | Dry Needling & Advanced Techniques | 26:31-27:40| | Water After Massage—Myth Busted | 34:07-35:37| | Massage and Wrinkle/Skin Myths | 35:37-36:39| | Price Points Discussion | 36:44-38:11| | What Makes a Good (or Bad) Recipient| 38:34-39:49| | Final Answer: Can You Overdo Massage?| 40:02-40:16| | Conversation and Humor About Feet | 41:32-42:58| | Heartfelt Closing Remarks | 43:02-43:32|

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Key Takeaways

• Can you get too many massages? Yes—especially deep tissue. Your body needs time to recover; frequency depends on purpose and individual condition.
• Massage soreness is normal but should fade quickly; persistent soreness means the session was too intense.
• Bruising can happen (especially with deep work or certain conditions), but frequent bruising signals too much intensity.
• Best length: 60-90 minutes is standard; longer sessions may be needed for larger bodies or more issues.
• Techniques vary: Good professionals use the whole body (not just hands), including knees/elbows for difficult areas.
• Etiquette: Talk or don’t talk—it’s about your comfort and therapist’s style. Be clear about preferences and issues.
• Embarrassing realities (bodily functions, arousal, incontinence) are common—professionals don’t judge.
• Business side: Price varies widely; high-end spa experiences are about amenities, not always expert technique.
• Hydrate after a massage to restore fluid balance; “detox” explanations are mostly myth.
• No, massage will not cause sagging skin; it may help tone skin by stimulating collagen and elastin.
• Communicate with your therapist to set expectations and maximize the benefits of your session.

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This episode blends real talk, science, and a dash of humor, making even “awkward” massage questions feel normal. Whether you’re a massage devotee or a first-timer, Bill, Giuliana, and Dr. Sterling offer honest advice you’ll actually use.

Transcript

[Sterling Richards]

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[Bill]

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[Juliana]

Okay.

[Bill]

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[Bill]

Welcome to Bill and Juliana the Podcast. Welcome back everyone to the Bill and Juliana podcast.

[Juliana]

So guys, today's episode is something that Bill and I were really wondering. The question is, how often is it too often to get a massage? Like how much is it too much to get a massage?

[Bill]

Can you get a massage too often?

[Juliana]

Can you overdo it?

[Bill]

Yes. I don't think you can.

[Juliana]

And I think you can. So Bill is obsessed with massages. And I like a massage. Don't get me wrong, I love a massage. But Bill, if he could be honest,

[Bill]

I'm a very active person. I run, I lift weights, I ski, I wake surf, wakeboard, you know, so I'm a little more active so my muscles get beat up.

[Juliana]

Uh huh. Uh huh. You used to run. You used to wake.

[Bill]

So you still run.

[Sterling Richards]

Okay.

[Bill]

No, I mean, but I oftentimes walk on an angle on the treadmill. God.

[Juliana]

Okay, that's not good. You're not like a professional weightlifter where you need to massage like every other day and. But you would love a massage every other day. No, it's fine. That's why we're doing this episode because we just want to know, is it ever like too much? Could you ever overdo it? Too many massages or how often should you be getting a massage? So today we have got our massage therapist here.

[Bill]

It's a massage.

[Juliana]

Sterling, what did I say?

[Bill]

You used some Italian accent. I don't know.

[Juliana]

Well, I am Italian. I was born there. No big deal. Today we have our massage therapist here with us. His name is Sterling Ricci. Just kidding. You said I speak Italian.

[Bill]

But he's probably the most qualified massage therapist you'll ever meet in the world. He has a PhD. He's a college professor. Exactly. Professional gymnast. Well, I call him trying out for the Olympics.

[Juliana]

He was trying out for the Olympics.

[Bill]

The guy is unbelievable.

[Juliana]

He is unbelievable.

[Bill]

He has hands that were just gifts from God.

[Juliana]

Gifts from God. And the other thing with him, too, is, like, he's. To Bill's point, he's incredibly knowledgeable. Like, I can ask him anything. And by the way, I am not an easy case on the massage table. I have a lot of problems.

[Bill]

Oh, more than just the massage table.

[Juliana]

And I have, like, history stuff like, that goes way back. Like, body history stuff. Like, for instance, scoliosis. So I had scoliosis as a child, and then I had a huge surgery when I was 21. And I have rods in my back. So that can be often challenging for masseuse. And sometimes I forget to tell the masseuse. And when I lay down on the bed and they see my back and I have a giant scar down my back, they get, like, all nervous or like, what is this? I'm like, oh, scoliosis. And so some of them, I'm like.

[Bill]

And you've used. You've gotten more mileage out of those rods out of your back for everything you get out of.

[Juliana]

Why?

[Bill]

Duke wanted to ride a roller. I can't ride the roller coaster, Duke. I've got rods in my back.

[Juliana]

That's true.

[Bill]

When we were dating, she used to snow ski and water ski. And then all of a sudden, after we got married, rods in my back. I can't go snow skiing.

[Juliana]

I can't.

[Bill]

Yeah. So anyway, it was.

[Juliana]

I also get cold really fast.

[Bill]

Because of the rods in your back?

[Juliana]

No, just because I don't want to ski. But anyway, I don't want to go snow skiing. But my point is. So I have those issues. I have scoliosis issues. I had a double mastectomy.

[Bill]

That's a big one.

[Juliana]

Right. So I have the silicone implants, and I always get nervous that I'm going to get, like, smush too hard on the table and something's gonna happen. And then I also travel a lot, and because of my scoliosis, like, my hips are off, like, half an inch, maybe less. And so what happens is when I travel or anything or sit funny or run too much or exercise, I get a lot of pain in one hip. So, like, I'm just like an. I don't know if It's a dream or a nightmare for a massage therapist. Sometimes they're excited.

[Bill]

I think people like challenges. Well, we're gonna find out.

[Juliana]

Yes, we are gonna find out. So Sterling Richards is joining us.

[Bill]

Dr. Sterling Richards. He is an incredible masseuse, but he also has a PhD in. Sterling, is it exercise physiology?

[Sterling Richards]

My PhD is in health and human performance. With my background in exercise physiology, basically

[Bill]

the same close, but he is truly. He comes to our house once a week and gives us massages. It's more than massage, though. It's more massage, physical therapy, stretching. It's just overall health and wellness, which I'm a big believer in. Yes, and we're excited to have you because a lot of people have burning questions like, how often should you get a massage? Can you get a massage too often? These are questions that people want to know. Thank you for joining us.

[Juliana]

Why are you sore after a massage? People want to know that, too.

[Sterling Richards]

There's a lot of questions that come in. And I think one of the biggest explanations that need to come is that when it comes to massage, there's a lot of different styles of massage. There's a lot of different reasons people get massage. Massage fits under the umbrella of manual fit therapy, to be honest. And so sometimes can you get it too much? The answer is yes, you can, but you can also get it.

[Juliana]

Don't tell Bill that.

[Sterling Richards]

But yes. At the same time, I've had people who I've seen three or four days in a row, depending on what their specific reason was. So it kind of depends on the client or the person that needs the massage and what kind of massage they need to get. So to answer Juliana's question about why am I sore? Or, you know, where does that problem come from? It can come from two reasons. A, your muscles needed the work, and it's almost like a workout kind of thing. You worked out at the gym, and you're a little stiff and a little achy. Your body is dealing with the manual manipulation from the massage therapist. Some of that can be because you had poor posture or you sat weird on a plane or problematic travel, and you're kind of realigning your musculature a little bit. And so that change becomes a little uncomfortable and the nerves become a little irritable. And so usually the goal is, if you're sore the next day, that it eases as the day goes on, you don't wanna be sore for three or four days. A lot of times, that's when the massages become too intense and you don't want that.

[Juliana]

And sometimes I remember back in the day in Los Angeles when I would go to these strip mall places and sometimes I would have bruises, and that is not a good thing.

[Bill]

Sore is one thing, iron deficiency.

[Juliana]

But is bruising a whole other thing? After massage, should you be bruised?

[Sterling Richards]

Well, to be completely honest, I have bruised people. But again, it kind of depends on why you're there for the massage. So if I've worked with somebody who's been dealing with a shoulder rotator cuff issue and I need to do a lot of intense work, I've bruised Bill before. A lot of intense work. Bruising is a possibility.

[Juliana]

Got it.

[Sterling Richards]

So sometimes that bruising is just a little bit of irritability in the, the capillaries of the skin. Got it. So not a problem. But if you're bruising often, usually it's too intense. Okay.

[Bill]

And length? I prefer the 90 minute massage because I think you do. 60 just isn't enough. But is there a, you know, is there a fine line? Like what is the ideal length for a massage for the recipient and for the masseuse?

[Sterling Richards]

Well, I've had massages that have lasted over two hours, depending on what needs to be done. Sometimes I have found that the longer massages are necessary on people who are a little bit bigger, muscularly, or even heavyset, overweight, because it takes more time to get through the tissue. Because if you just dive right in and try to go too deep too soon, the body doesn't have time to adjust. So you actually need more time. Tall people, believe it or not, actually take a little longer because there's just more real estate, there's just more body that you have to deal with. So for generalized Overall body massage, 60 minutes is doable. 90 minutes is common and beneficial. 2 hours is not uncommon.

[Bill]

Yeah, and how many can you do a day?

[Sterling Richards]

Me, physically? No, you.

[Bill]

As the, as the, as the massage giver.

[Juliana]

I'm like, bill wants to massage one in the morning.

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What point are you?

[Bill]

Just like, my body can't take it because it's a lot of work on you.

[Sterling Richards]

I do, I have friends that it's their full time job and they have eight hours of massage that they do in a 10 hour period. They have a little break here and there. I personally can't do more than about four hours in a day. I'm old and broken. My hands hurt, my back hurts.

[Juliana]

I was gonna say personally, not because you're busy doing other things personally for yourself. Physically, you do not want to do more.

[Sterling Richards]

Physically, I'm limited to about 4. Otherwise, I've done 5 before, but then the next day, my hands ache. Things like that.

[Juliana]

How do you, like, build that up? Like, I always think about that when you're working on me, Sterling. I'm like, how is he able to do this? Because I try so hard to give Bill weekly massages.

[Bill]

Oh, what?

[Sterling Richards]

Come on.

[Bill]

This is.

[Juliana]

I have tried in the past. When we first.

[Bill]

This is total fiction. Okay.

[Juliana]

When we were dating.

[Bill]

When we were dating 20 years ago,

[Juliana]

and I tried to give him a massage, and I really wanted to put my heart and soul into it. I got this, like, little bed ready. I got oils out. I put on a cute outfit, and. And then when I went in, I swear I really had good intentions. Sterling, after about. I'm not kidding, four to five minutes, my fingers hurt so bad. Like, it was really hard. How do you build up your fingers to be able to do that?

[Sterling Richards]

It is practice. It's like lifting weights or any type of physical activity. It's. The more you do, the more skilled you become. The other thing is learning how to manipulate your body to get more pressure with less effort. So using your fist, using your elbow, body weight, not trying to do it all with your hands. Yeah, because your hands are gonna burn out really quickly.

[Juliana]

Can I say something? Because I remember Bill was all upset. Well. And I tell me if this was, like, cheating. So I put my. I used my elbow. I watched a video and I used my elbow. And then I also used the heel of my foot, and I was like this.

[Bill]

It was like a horse's hoof pedicure. You got, like, bunions or corns.

[Juliana]

I did not have bun or corns.

[Bill]

No, it was a little sandpaper on my back.

[Juliana]

It was dry skin on my heel. Whatever. I got that fixed. But bottom line is. So, like, is that okay? Like, are you doing that to me? Is your heel ever in me or your elbows?

[Sterling Richards]

So, no. With you? No. With Bill, I don't tend to use my feet, but I do use my knee on Bill.

[Juliana]

What?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I didn't know that.

[Sterling Richards]

On his hip. Particularly on his hip.

[Bill]

Never knew that.

[Sterling Richards]

And in his lower back, because my. The weight of my upper body isn't enough to get through the musculature in his back for my elbow. But if I kneel on him, then I can. It also, if I'm stretching him and doing more like a sports massage style, I can put my knee in his hip and use both hands to move his leg or his body so it frees up my hands to use my leg.

[Juliana]

Did you ever know that, Bill?

[Bill]

I did not know that.

[Sterling Richards]

But when he's laying face down and he's asleep, it doesn't matter.

[Bill]

I'm out.

[Juliana]

Does he? What?

[Bill]

I know. I have a question. What? And we went and before we met you, we went and got a couple's massage once. She talked to the massage therapist the entire time?

[Juliana]

Yes.

[Bill]

And I was like, what? This lady doesn't want to talk to you? Right. Like, I want to just chill. And she's chatting it up with the masseuse.

[Juliana]

So what is your question? Because I have a.

[Bill]

Do you like when recipients are talkers or you want them just to enjoy the massage?

[Juliana]

Sterling, do not look at me right now. But by the way, I talk Sterling's ear off. Do you not talk his ear off?

[Bill]

I don't say a word.

[Juliana]

I talk the whole time.

[Bill]

Great to see you. I'm down. Face down. Talk to you in 90 minutes.

[Sterling Richards]

And then I tap him on the shoulder, and I'm like, okay, we're done.

[Juliana]

Stop. I talk the whole time.

[Bill]

Do I not? Music in there the entire time.

[Juliana]

What do I always talk about?

[Sterling Richards]

Giuliana and I have a conversation every time. And it could be something related to the dogs or to Duke or to me or my work. Cause, you know, as I teach, so it could be anything. But then Bill and I, it's like, if we have more than about five minutes of conversation. That's rare.

[Bill]

No, just some pleasantries.

[Juliana]

What do you prefer? Be honest and be honest with us. We're both sitting here. Do you prefer Bill's hour or my hour? Like, based on silent or conversation? Be honest. Sterling, we've known you a long time. Be careful.

[Bill]

Oh, man.

[Sterling Richards]

I. I like them both equally. Oh, is that the right answer?

[Bill]

That's a bunch of music.

[Sterling Richards]

For different reasons.

[Bill]

That's not true.

[Sterling Richards]

For different reasons.

[Juliana]

Tell me.

[Sterling Richards]

The reason that I like Juliana's the way it is is because the conversation is light and easy and the time actually goes faster. The time. The reason I like Bills so much is because it gives me time to focus on what I'm doing and learning techniques, paying attention to his body, kind of how it feels. What's.

[Bill]

I got a lot more going on.

[Sterling Richards]

I improve my skill or I kind of hone my skills a little bit more with Bill because I'm focused on that rather than a conversation.

[Bill]

Let him create a. You know.

[Juliana]

But be honest. We have really good conversations, and I don't feel like they're all lighted airy. We have some serious conversations.

[Sterling Richards]

We've had some very serious conversations.

[Juliana]

We do. We talk like God, how do you not have like serious conversations in a massage?

[Bill]

I'm not there to chat. Oh, I love talking. Like I have back pain, neck pain

[Sterling Richards]

and I probably have like equal balance of clients. I have some that I have full conversations for the full hour. I have some that it is literally as soon as they are lying down, they don't speak.

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[Sterling Richards]

Purchase and seller protections on eligible transactions.

[Juliana]

Only terms apply.

[Bill]

See paypal.com risk management for details.

[Juliana]

I have a question. Has Bill ever tooted during a massage?

[Bill]

Oh, God.

[Sterling Richards]

Not to my recollection. It's possible, but I know you have.

[Bill]

I'm usually, like, in and out of sleep.

[Juliana]

And I have a second question. Have I ever tooted during a massage? Like when I was sleeping?

[Sterling Richards]

Not to my recollection.

[Juliana]

Thank you. I thought you were going to sleep.

[Sterling Richards]

No.

[Bill]

How would you handle.

[Juliana]

So I would die.

[Sterling Richards]

What a very short memory. Kind of like a goldfish. So I don't know what happens when

[Juliana]

people do toot during the massage. Are they like. I mean, obviously they're so embarrassed.

[Sterling Richards]

One of two things. Either they acknowledge it immediately and feel embarrassed and want to talk about it, and then it goes away, or they pretend like it didn't happen.

[Bill]

I think I would acknowledge it right away.

[Sterling Richards]

And I, as the professional, always follow the lead, whatever that is.

[Juliana]

I think I did one. Sterling, I think you're being nice.

[Sterling Richards]

Well, I've known you for over a decade, so it's possible.

[Bill]

So a friend of mine, I won't mention his name, he went and got a massage. He was traveling for work, and the masseuse was really attractive.

[Juliana]

We don't want to go there. This is not.

[Bill]

No, this is a legitimate question. And he said he couldn't enjoy the massage because he had to focus on, like, ashtrays and like, you know, he was trying to not. Especially when the.

[Juliana]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill]

When the thighs were being robbed in that area. Like, how do you handle that if someone has, you know, if they start to pitch a tent.

[Sterling Richards]

So it's another conversation of you as the professional. Follow the lead.

[Bill]

This is a legitimate question.

[Sterling Richards]

Follow the lead of the client. To be honest, you know, it happens. It's when. And when you study it in massage therapy school, you talk about the physiological responses, the neurological stimulus. All have different nerve pathways, and it can create blood flow change, which leads to some form of arousal. And that's totally natural and totally common. It's one of those things that you either acknowledge it or you don't, depending on what the client is.

[Juliana]

Yes.

[Sterling Richards]

Kind of initiating, if that makes sense. There are some clients that will almost immediately apologize and say, I'm so sorry. That this is happening, and then that

[Bill]

phase is, oh, flip over on my stomach.

[Sterling Richards]

It's no problem. And then you do. You usually change direction. You just kind of get them to change position to eliminate the conversation. As a therapist, it happens more than you think. So it's not news to us. So for us, it's not a big deal. And so we don't care. It's. It doesn't affect our ability to do our job. It is definitely more of the comfort and the problem for the patient. Usually that's the issue.

[Bill]

We like to. On the Bill and Juliana podcast, which we love the name, we try to ask questions that people are afraid to ask or they're thinking, but they don't want to say out loud. So I'm gonna.

[Juliana]

I have wondered that.

[Bill]

This is unfiltered.

[Juliana]

It is unfiltered. I just think that, like, poor Sterling thought he was coming in here to talk about how often should I get him?

[Bill]

This is a legitimate question.

[Juliana]

Like, no, I know.

[Bill]

I got a massage once. You remember this? I was training for the New York marathon, and I had a really bad calf in Achilles, and this guy came in and he stripped my calf muscle down. And I had the most unusual reaction. It was the most painful thing I've ever done. But I started laughing uncontrollably. It was so weird. It was so painful. Like, he had this tool, and he was just stripping down the calf muscle. And is that common? Like, do people sometimes have different reactions when you're.

[Sterling Richards]

Yes, yes. There are times. It's when we look at massage. Depending on how the massage is being done, whether it's highly physical in a situation like this or whether it's more relaxation. The emotional center in your brain, in your central nervous system, is very intimately connected to how your body is receiving information. And so there are some people that all of a sudden, they will say to me, oh, my God, I'm just gonna start crying. And they start sobbing. And it's not like I'm being mean to them. It's not like I'm in. It's an emotional release, but it is an emotional response. The laughing component is one that some people experience with discomfort because it's probably unlike any pain you've ever felt, because the scraping is a unique sensation. Right? It's not like a deep pressure for a massage, or it's not like you injured your ankle because you rolled it. It's a different kind of sensation. So you don't know how to process it. So you're not gonna scream or cry. Or be angry. So you just start laughing cause you can't explain it. So it's not uncommon.

[Bill]

It was. It was crazy.

[Juliana]

That's crazy. And you just started like bursting out. You were there.

[Bill]

It was in la.

[Juliana]

Was I physically watching your massage? Yes, I was.

[Mazda Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Bill]

It was this Greek guy from. He was like this big.

[Juliana]

Oh, my God.

[Bill]

Muscle bound Greek guys. He was an Olympian in Greece. And the guy just beat the crap out of me.

[Juliana]

Yes, he did.

[Bill]

But he fixed. I was able to run the marathon. I had all this training and it was like three weeks before the marathon.

[Sterling Richards]

And I'm like, I'm not gonna be

[Bill]

able to run this thing.

[Juliana]

That's a type of massage, right? That's called like fascia or. No, no, that's not. That's Rolfing or. I don't know what that is.

[Sterling Richards]

So it could be a variation of several things, but it's a high intense, like fascial release.

[Juliana]

Fascial release, yeah.

[Sterling Richards]

Or in this case, they call it scraping. In Chinese medicine, they call it TWI na or, excuse me, gua sha. So it's different types of scraping techniques. And it does. It creates a huge response.

[Juliana]

Who needs that? What would dictate needing that?

[Sterling Richards]

So a lot of times that is specific for. So fascia is a very rigid connective tissue in your body and it's everywhere. Your whole body has it, it's covered in it. So sometimes what happens is it kind of restricts and gets tight. And general massage is really hard to manipulate that. But something scraping will create a more drastic response. So a lot of times people with like postural deviations, like a shoulder sits higher than the other, or you sleep weird and your neck kind of is kinked. Sometimes the scraping can actually be very helpful to force that tension release. Some people have it more commonly than others. People with, you know, really bad pain in their calves or their Achilles tendon, they'll do scraping on a regular basis to kind of keep that.

[Juliana]

So that's something to maybe look into if you have that. If you have like a bounce buildup of that.

[Sterling Richards]

I knew a woman who, she had one pair of shoes that was less than 3 inches of a heel. And they were a pair of running shoes that she never used. And she got it often because the high heel actually created that tightness in her Achilles. And the scraping was the only thing that relieved her foot pain.

[Juliana]

So if you have bad foot pain from high heels, you could benefit from that.

[Sterling Richards]

That could be a huge benefit. Yeah.

[Juliana]

You know, it's interesting. I remember I would get that type of massage, like, a few years after my double mastectomy.

[Sterling Richards]

That's very common with something like that.

[Juliana]

Right. Because you get the build up and it hardens scar tissue. Then I would have people working on it and it was, like, so painful.

[Sterling Richards]

Yep.

[Juliana]

It was actually really good.

[Sterling Richards]

I know, I know. I know people who also get it for, like, hip replacements to deal with the scarring, like a big scar like that. So a double mastectomy is extremely common. I know a woman who the only relief she got after a cesarean section birth because of the scarring on her abdomen. That actually helped. So it can be very helpful for scar tissue.

[Juliana]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Bill]

What about combining dry needling with massage?

[Sterling Richards]

Does dry needling work if the person knows what they're doing? Absolutely. So dry needling is an interesting conversation. And if you have somebody who's an acupuncturist and a dry needler that's not acupuncture trained, it's a whole battle that you don't want to get involved in. And I don't have that skill set. I know people that do. But if you know what you're doing, it's very beneficial because it's very pinpointed and very specific. But as a result, you have to be extremely precise. And if you're not as good at it, you're not as precise. So that's why when it comes to dry needling, you need people who have a lot of experience look for that.

[Juliana]

When dry needling, you have to look for, like, the best in your area.

[Bill]

I did it after my rotator cuffs are surgery. And, I mean, I was like, the best patient ever because I did, like, hyperbaric chamber. I did dry needling. I did, you know, whatever was out there, I tried it.

[Sterling Richards]

And when I've had dry needling versions, I used an acupuncturist who specifically is trained for what they call orthopedic needling. And it's the variation of dry needling in acupuncture.

[Juliana]

You like acupuncture?

[Sterling Richards]

I do, I do. I have a wonderful acupuncturist. That's awesome.

[Juliana]

Wow. Okay, so we gotta do more stuff like this. Yeah, we're getting massages all the time.

[Bill]

Well, not. I mean, Sterling's on hiatus, so we're. I'm a little pissed at you right now. I'm not gonna lie to you.

[Sterling Richards]

I. I understand. I understand. You're not alone, Bill.

[Juliana]

I'm so mad you injured yourself.

[Bill]

I'm mad you got injured.

[Juliana]

He's so mad.

[Sterling Richards]

I did it on purpose, Bill. I needed a break from her talking.

[Juliana]

I do talk Sterling's ear off. Like, I actually kind of sometimes feel bad when you leave Sterling. I'm like, I talk to Sterling too

[Bill]

much because I do feel high probability.

[Sterling Richards]

That's the yes, I can handle it. I'm all right.

[Juliana]

That's funny.

[Sterling Richards]

I've never left your house worried about that ever.

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[Juliana]

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[Malcolm Gladwell]

How's that?

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[Malcolm Gladwell]

This is Malcolm Gladwell from Revisionist History. We spend hours researching products online and deciding what to buy. But there's a split second decision that can make or break a sale. Do you have the trust to hit the Buy now button? The way we discover and compare things is evolving, happening faster, and influenced by new forms of intelligent advice. But the underlying trust question doesn't go away. If anything, it's more important than ever. That's where PayPal comes in. For more than 25 years, they've been a trusted way to Pay. And now PayPal can make the agentic era of commerce work for merchants, letting them maintain control of their brand, their Customer relationships. So even as the way we shop changes, the moment that matters most still feels familiar and deeply dependable. Built for payments, growth and agentic. PayPal open. Built for all business. Visit paypalopen.com to get started.

[Sterling Richards]

Purchase and seller protections on eligible transactions.

[Juliana]

Only terms apply.

[Bill]

See paypal.com risk-management for details.

[Juliana]

Do you have a client who talks more than me?

[Sterling Richards]

Not anymore.

[Vital Proteins Advertiser]

She.

[Sterling Richards]

She ran away and moved to Florida. But, yes, I had a woman that.

[Juliana]

I have a question.

[Sterling Richards]

I. 1.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

What?

[Juliana]

One person talks more than me that way?

[Bill]

Hold on.

[Juliana]

That is like, an inch.

[Sterling Richards]

I will say you're a close second, but no, she's. She, like, I rarely. I rarely gave any. I rarely spoke. She would just talk at me for an hour.

[Bill]

Welcome to my world.

[Juliana]

I don't know.

[Sterling Richards]

Ours is at least a conversation.

[Bill]

Look at this. Look at this. She's showing me all these videos of dogs. And this.

[Juliana]

We do talk a lot about. I, I, I draw. I pour all my, like, dog stories on. On Sterling. I do do that, but I feel like, am I wrong? Or sometimes, like, I will be, like, talking at, like, 100 miles an hour, and then I'm like, have I right?

[Sterling Richards]

There have been times that we're having a full conversation, and then I will respond to you, and then it's silence for about 10 minutes. I'm like, all right, well, guess conversation's over. The funniest thing is that that's not uncommon is that when you're giving massage, there are times when people literally just are asleep. And that's usually when the.

[Juliana]

Who knew? Who knew massages were so complex.

[Bill]

Well, I was actually researching this when I knew Sterling was gonna be a guest. And I. I was doing a little bit of digging last night, and sometimes when people get into the massage and they're just in this state, they actually develop some incontinence. Has that ever happened to you?

[Sterling Richards]

It has happened to me.

[Bill]

That's like, you're so relaxed. Wait, what happens that you wet? It's called incontinence. Yeah, I can Google it for you. English is your second language.

[Juliana]

It's my third language. Thank you.

[Bill]

So they actually will wet at the massage table because they're just in this state of total relaxation that their body just interesting. Frees itself.

[Sterling Richards]

And again, talking about another puppy, another embarrassing situation. But for the professional, it's one of those things that it has happened. Not every massage therapist has experienced this. I'm sure I have experienced it with clients of mine. Interestingly enough, there are people that are more likely to experience that women who have recently had a child, especially vaginal birth, it totally normal, totally not uncommon. If it might be something that the massage therapist needs to let them know. If this happens, don't panic.

[Bill]

It's gonna be a minor upcharge, but we're good.

[Juliana]

I like that though. I like your mind.

[Bill]

It's run stuff to dry cleaning, but

[Juliana]

a good therapist would tell them ahead of time and then it kind of takes the pressure off of them.

[Sterling Richards]

Don't panic. Don't freak out. It's something that has happened before. It's not necessarily anything to worry about. I've also worked with men who have had prostate surgery. Same situation has happened. So it just kind of depends. Usually it's for individuals who have had some form of medical scenario that has recently occurred, like a surgery or a childbirth or things like that. But no, it can happen.

[Juliana]

I have a question. So after I get a massage, should I drink water? Like, do I need to be drinking like a glass of water? Because sometimes we do it at night and I just want to go straight to bed and not have any water. But I heard you should drink water after massage because everything. Okay. I don't know all the science behind it, but it's something like everything's moving around and stuff. And so you just want to drink

[Bill]

water to like flush out the top.

[Juliana]

Flush out. Yes, because the toxins got released. Is that true?

[Sterling Richards]

So to some extent, we all need to drink more water because we just don't drink enough, regardless whether you're getting a massage or not. But the reason that the recommendation for water is not necessarily that the toxins are released. Yes, there are some changes in some of the chemical structures of your body, but it's more because as you do massage therapy and strip the muscles and work on the skin, for instance, the fluid balance in your body kind of shifts. It doesn't disappear, obviously, because it's still in your body, but it just shifts. So drinking water kind of helps re regulate that. It stimulates the kidneys. It kind of stimulates the uptake of your lymphatic drainage to kind of reestablish normal water balance in your body, which your kidneys, your liver, your spleen are your detoxifying tissues. So it does kind of stimulate all those things. So it kind of tangentially, I guess you could say that it helps with detoxing the body. But it's not that the toxins are released. It's that your water balance is actually shifting a little bit and you need to re establish that.

[Juliana]

I have Another question. Do you think that massage could like, because, you know, you're like pushing the skin and stretching it. So if I get too much massage, will I get too much wrinkles?

[Sterling Richards]

No.

[Juliana]

Do you know what I mean?

[Sterling Richards]

I do know what you mean.

[Juliana]

Like, am I gonna get saggy skin on my arms and legs because you were stretching me out?

[Sterling Richards]

Actually, no, really, the reason is, is because the reason that skin changes and gets wrinkles or changes, its tension is related to the collagen fibers in the skin and the elastin fibers in your skin. Collagen gives it structure, elastin gives it its tension. And those things are actually stimulated by physical contact. So it may actually help to tighten skin in certain areas. Not necessarily the face. That's a.

[Juliana]

Can you give me a face massage?

[Sterling Richards]

I can't do a face massage. I'm not promising anything. But no, it can actually stimulate their function. So it can actually create more tension in the skin.

[Juliana]

It can tighten your skin as opposed

[Sterling Richards]

to loosening your skin as opposed to loosening.

[Juliana]

That's interesting, right, Bill, I did some research too. See, I don't believe it. I just came up with that.

[Bill]

I want to talk a little bit about the business side of it. Because the price of a massage varies so much, right? Like it's all over the map. People just decide to charge what they want to charge. What is a reasonable price to pay for a 60 minute massage?

[Sterling Richards]

There is no good answer for that. And the reason is, is because it's all based upon the market, you know, I mean, here in the city of Chicago, it's gonna be different than in the suburbs of Chicago, which is gonna be very different than in the suburbs or the middle of nowhere in Tennessee. And so you'll have people at conferences or people that you meet that live in West Virginia or that live in New Mexico. And they're charging $60 for an hour, maybe $50 for an hour. And then you have some people in LA or Miami and they won't do anything for less than $150 to $200 an hour.

[Bill]

Yeah, if you're lucky.

[Sterling Richards]

If you're lucky. And that's if you come to them and they don't have to do anything. And. But like if you're going to people's houses, if you're doing on call, if you're doing longer massages, I mean, there are people that $300 for a 90 minute massage is not uncommon, you know, and then you go to spas or hotels or anything like that. And of course, the upcharge because you have the sauna or the steam or the whatever and the amenities. And you're paying 450, $500 for a 90 minute massage in Las Vegas at one of the big hotels.

[Juliana]

You do need to know that like, if you're going to a spa, it's going to be more expensive. Not necessarily because the massage is any better, but because you're. It's the upcharge of all this. Other things that are there.

[Bill]

Well, it's always hit or miss too. When you go to like a hotel, like sometimes you get a great therapist and then other times she's just rubbing oil up and like there's no pressure. It's not really. Doesn't really benefit a guy like me.

[Sterling Richards]

Right. And it depends on what the massage is. Right. And so one of the things as far as massage is concerned is that you can be bad at getting or receiving a massage.

[Juliana]

What do you mean?

[Bill]

Be a bad recipient?

[Sterling Richards]

You could be a bad recipient.

[Juliana]

We could be a bad recipient. Why?

[Sterling Richards]

Neither of you are bad recipients?

[Bill]

Good to know.

[Sterling Richards]

Panic.

[Bill]

How would that be?

[Sterling Richards]

But one of the things is you go in with expectations without communicating with the therapist. And so if they're like, oh, I want a relaxing massage, okay. The therapist has this thought of what a relaxing massage would be from them as a professional, but that may not be what you want or expect. And so communication is important. Another thing is having expectations regarding the treatment. So I've had people with deep tissue, they're like, oh, you can go deeper, you can go deeper. And yet as I push in, they're flinching and kind of pulling back. And they're like, I can handle it, I can work through it. And it's like at this point we're just playing tug of war and I'm just going to beat you up and neither of us are going to serve any purpose. So I think it's important to know as a recipient to talk to your therapist, what is it that you want? You know, if you're at a spa because you're there for a weekend and you're just enjoying the massage. Yeah, I have some issues in my neck, but I want this to be relaxing. They can make a treatment around you, but talk to your therapist.

[Bill]

Yeah.

[Juliana]

So because we've been talking so much about so many things I totally forgot, the initial response is, can you get too many massages? I literally forgot. Was the answer yes or no? So I can tell Bill, yes, the

[Sterling Richards]

answer is, oh, yes, thank God.

[Juliana]

You just saved us so much money. Literally a salary.

[Sterling Richards]

The Answer is yes. You know, like I said, I've had people that I've seen multiple times in a week. But. But for very specific reasons.

[Bill]

I would do twice a week if I could.

[Sterling Richards]

And that's not too much?

[Bill]

Actually, yeah. I would do twice a week.

[Sterling Richards]

The body needs time to recover again. Re establishing water balance. If it's a very deep tissue massage, it can be a little intense and the body needs time to kind of get back to normal. Couple days in between. Two or three days in between.

[Bill]

Thursday, Sunday. Thursday.

[Sterling Richards]

That is definitely within reason something that.

[Bill]

That you mentioned to me confidentially last time you were at our house. I think it's important to bring up Bill.

[Juliana]

Wait, hold on. Can I just stop? You can't. If he gave you something confidential.

[Bill]

It's okay. We're in the safe zone.

[Juliana]

We're not in the safe zone. We're not in the safe zone. Millions of people. Billions of people around the world.

[Bill]

There's 3 billion out of courtesy. I always shower before I get a massage. My wife doesn't necessarily agree with that. So she just rolls in.

[Juliana]

I shower after.

[Bill]

Right. You don't shower.

[Juliana]

Is that bad?

[Bill]

It's. It's not preferred by the Sterling.

[Sterling Richards]

Unless you come in out of the garden and are dirty and filthy. It's not a problem for me.

[Bill]

I'm not into that. You'd asked me to say something to her.

[Juliana]

Have I ever smelled during a massage?

[Sterling Richards]

You can tell her the truth. I've never had a problem with either. Regarding.

[Juliana]

Maybe my feet.

[Sterling Richards]

I have a problem with everyone's feet when it comes to summer. Because everybody's walking around in sandals and they're just gross. Even if they felt you don't spend

[Bill]

a lot of time on the fear feet.

[Sterling Richards]

Strong.

[Bill]

I'm giving like I can tell you're not a foot guy. Like you don't.

[Juliana]

He spends a lot of time on my feet.

[Bill]

Not mine.

[Juliana]

Oh well, because you're got feet.

[Sterling Richards]

He asks for other things.

[Bill]

Only fans page for my feet. They're so good. I'm gonna make a fortune.

[Juliana]

Bill could literally start an onlyfans for his feet. He has the most beautiful mantos I have ever laid eyes on. Or sucked. Just kidding. I've never sucked his toes in my life.

[Bill]

I've never willing to try.

[Juliana]

Ever sucked a toe. Can you show the world your toes?

[Bill]

Not right now.

[Juliana]

I think you should. Are they not ready? What's wrong? So my second toe's longer than my first.

[Bill]

I'm making a frickin fortune.

[Juliana]

And even though that's a sign of intelligence that your second toe's longer than your first. They do say it's a sign of intelligence. It's not attractive. I. I have a low score.

[Bill]

What do I have? You have 4.8.

[Juliana]

You have a higher foot score on wiki than I do. So. You have very beautiful man toes.

[Bill]

I'm going to make a car. I'm going to make a killing.

[Juliana]

What does a new car meet the

[Bill]

money they're going to pay to look at my feet?

[Juliana]

Do you know how much money you're going to make on onlyfans?

[Bill]

I know.

[Juliana]

You need to show the world.

[Bill]

I'm never flying Southwest airlines again. He's going private Flexjet.

[Juliana]

He doesn't fly it. Now can you show your toes on camera? Because we can start making money now.

[Bill]

I can't.

[Sterling Richards]

Come on, honey.

[Juliana]

You want to do it?

[Bill]

It's going to cost you a hundy.

[Juliana]

And by the way, this is a man who gets no pedicures.

[Bill]

Never in my life.

[Juliana]

And he has the most beautiful. Not a corn, not a callus, not a bunion, not no dry skin.

[Bill]

They are good looking feet. I mean, that's my best feature.

[Juliana]

Well, Sterling, it has been such a pleasure. We love you so much.

[Sterling Richards]

Thank you very much.

[Juliana]

Thank you for like always, just honestly, whenever you come over, it's like the highlight of our week.

[Bill]

Shoulders drop, we wake up, we feel

[Juliana]

better and we travel so much, you

[Bill]

know, and so you have a gift from God. Thank you.

[Sterling Richards]

You really do.

[Juliana]

We love you, Sterling.

[Bill]

You've got a talent that is incredible. So.

[Sterling Richards]

Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm glad that I can share it with you.

[Bill]

And if you don't get well soon, that back of yours, I swear to

[Sterling Richards]

God, Sterling, I'm working on it. I'm improving every day. So we're working on it.

[Bill]

Thank you. Thanks, Sterling.

[Juliana]

Love you, Sterling.

[Bill]

Thank you. Sterling Richards, everybody. Thank you very much.

[Sterling Richards]

Thank you. Foreign.

[Blue Square Alliance Advertiser]

Football, you've got guys from everywhere, different backgrounds, different beliefs, all of it. You don't agree on everything, but you got each other's backs. That's how it works. And right now, off the field, hates going up everywhere. Different communities, different ways. And Jewish communities are getting hit hard. That's not how a team operates. The blue square is just one way of showing you've got people's backs. Go to bluesquarealliance.org, grab one, share it. Be a good teammate.

[American Family Insurance Advertiser]

Life's better with drive my way from American family insurance because we know it's more than just a car. It's your escape. Pod, your adventure mobile, your memory maker. And we help protect the dreams that drive you. Personalize what you pay for auto insurance and you could save between 1010 and 35%. American Family Insurance Get a quote and find an [e-mail] Products, pricing and availability

[Insurance Disclaimer]

vary based on the way you purchase insurance and by state. Unsafe driving behaviors may increase your rate. American Family Mutual Insurance Co. SI and its operating companies, 6000American Parkway, Madison, Wisconsin.

[Plant Killers Podcast Advertiser]

On this episode of Plant Killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer. Bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer? The ingredients. But fear not, true crime enthusiasts, this story has a happy ending. Miracle Gro Organic raised bed in garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same, looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over thanks to Miracle Gro. Join us next time on Plant Killers.

[Mazda Advertiser]

Introducing the all new Mazda CX5 featuring more connection. Hey, Google, where's the nearest Pilates class safety that has your back?

[Bill]

Jack?

[Mazda Advertiser]

More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The allnew Mazda CX5. More to move every side of you. See it in five films at mazdausa.com fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.

[Sterling Richards]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.