Why is parenting so hard?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Why is Parenting So Hard?"

Podcast: Bill and Giuliana: The Podcast
Host: iHeartPodcasts
Episode Date: July 14, 2026
Guest: Mike McLeod (ADHD, Executive Functioning, and Child Development Expert)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Bill and Giuliana explore the question on countless parents’ minds: “Why is parenting so hard?” Joined by Mike McLeod, an expert in ADHD and executive functioning, they discuss the unique challenges of modern parenting, the youth mental health crisis, the misunderstood facets of ADHD, and practical tips for building independence in children without burning out as parents. They also candidly share their own family's struggles and lessons, offering both expert insight and relatable anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Modern Parenting Dilemma

Timestamp: 03:14 – 06:38

• Despite access to more information and resources than ever, parents are more exhausted and confused, grappling with the balance between helping and enabling.
• Bill observes, “We're more connected than ever. We're more informed than ever. Yet most of us are completely exhausted and confused.” (03:14)
• Mike McLeod has supported Bill and Giuliana’s family, notably working with their son Duke.
• The conversation is prompted by noticed uptick in ADHD and executive function diagnoses—Is it better detection, or are problems getting worse?

2. Rise in ADHD & Executive Function Concerns

Timestamp: 06:38 – 08:26

• Mike explains the apparent surge: historically, ADHD was underdiagnosed (especially in girls), but today's “attention economy” leads many to see symptoms everywhere, possibly “over-diagnosing” in some cases.
• "We're very extra informed now and maybe we're a little too informed... We're in this attention economy...it's hard to find someone that doesn't think they have ADHD these days." – Mike McLeod (07:03)

3. Prompt Dependency & Independence

Timestamp: 08:26 – 12:06

• Most parent inquiries revolve around, “How do I get my child to be more independent?”
• Many children now require constant prompting to do everyday tasks, leaving parents carrying the “executive functioning” load for the entire family.
• Mike identifies a cycle: parents step in to prevent things from falling apart, but over-helping perpetuates the problem.
• "Are you saying that's what you're seeing? I like how you said that, kids have to be prompted more than ever." – Bill (10:05)

4. Why Experiences Like Camp Matter

Timestamp: 09:51 – 12:06

• Real-world situations like sleepaway camp force kids (like Duke) to manage on their own—no parents to prompt, fostering self-reliance.
• “The over helping is making everything fall apart.” – Mike McLeod (11:28)

5. Mike McLeod’s Background and Approach

Timestamp: 12:06 – 15:21

• Mike shares his educational and professional journey: from teacher and speech-language pathologist to researching and developing his “Grow Now Internal Skills Model.”
• Frustrated by the lack of progress in traditional therapies, he turned to leading experts and evidence-based strategies to truly move the needle for kids with ADHD and executive functioning challenges.

6. ADHD and Executive Functioning Demystified

Timestamp: 15:21 – 19:51

• ADHD is not just about hyperactivity or attention; it's fundamentally a developmental disorder of executive functioning.
• “ADHD is not an attention disorder...It's a developmental disorder of executive functioning skills.” – Mike McLeod (15:22)
• Key pillars:
  • Self-awareness (develops early but often delayed in ADHD)
  • Self-regulation (core problems are about emotion regulation)
  • Self-motivation (especially for non-preferred or new tasks)
  • Self-evaluation (learning from experience and not repeating mistakes)

7. The Challenge of Emotional Dysregulation

Timestamp: 21:50 – 24:04

• Kids with executive function deficits often express “big feelings,” which can drain parents who feel they must constantly talk through and address every emotion.
• “We're just all... talking through these like emotions and... you think that you solved it two days ago and then it comes up again.” – Juliana (21:51)

8. What Actually Works: Redefining the Parent’s Role

Timestamp: 24:04 – 28:13

• Mike emphasizes kids aren’t “fragile,” and overprotectiveness (fueled by social media and influencer culture) is backfiring.
• Many behaviors at home differ from those at school—kids can “play” parents to get what they want, leveraging unconditional love at home.
• Parent coaching—not therapy for the child—has the strongest scientific backing for improving outcomes.

“The number one most evidence-based treatment for kids and teens...is parent training. There's nothing [that] has more research to back it up.” – Mike McLeod (28:13)

9. Debunking Myths: Diet, Supplements, and Quick Fixes

Timestamp: 29:58 – 32:38

• Diet matters but is not a cure for ADHD. Elimination diets and supplements lack strong evidence.
• “ADHD is brain based...you're most often born with it...Executive function is strengthened through varied experiences and interpersonal relationships.” – Mike McLeod (30:33 & 31:43)
• The rapid rise in diagnoses mirrors increased screen time, less opportunity for boredom/imaginative play, and fewer real-world challenges.

10. Parental Pressures, Burnout, and the “Perfect Parent” Illusion

Timestamp: 32:48 – 33:57

• Social media amplifies pressure on parents to be perfect and undermines self-confidence.
• Parenting is uniquely hard; expecting perfection only creates burnout.
• “Raising a human being is an imperfect science.” – Mike McLeod (33:37)

11. Tactical Parenting Tips: Use Fewer Words

Timestamp: 35:24 – 37:56

• Over-talking actually makes emotional dysregulation worse.
• “Use 90% less language. Language makes dysregulation worse. The more you talk, expect bigger behaviors.” – Mike McLeod (35:24)
• Sometimes, “Because I said so,” is enough—endless discussions aren't helpful.

12. Real Life, Real Struggles: Bill, Giuliana, and Duke

Timestamp: 37:56 – 42:00

• The hosts candidly describe their own parenting traps: feeling manipulated, falling into negotiation cycles, feeling guilty when setting boundaries.
• Mike affirms that their son’s behavior is not “manipulative” in a malicious way—he’s simply learned what works to get attention and achieve his goals.

13. Final Thoughts and Resources

Timestamp: 42:00 – 43:40

• Mike’s books: “The Executive Functioning Playbook” and the accompanying workbook are available on Amazon and other outlets.
• Follow him on Instagram (@GrowNowADHD) for practical videos and resources.
• Bill and Giuliana advocate for more honest conversations about parenting—increased candor reduces stigma and helps all parents feel less alone.

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Notable Quotes & Highlights

• “Are we doing too much? Are our kids just struggling more than our generation did? Does modern parenting just come with a whole new set of challenges?” – Bill (03:18)
• “Nothing gets done unless I step in.” – Mike McLeod, on the anxiety trap for parents (10:44)
• "The over helping is making everything fall apart." – Mike McLeod (11:28)
• “The lack of internal skills creates all those external symptoms we inappropriately focused on for far too long.” – Mike McLeod (16:58)
• “Parenting is probably number one on the list in terms of hardest things you've ever done.” – Mike McLeod (33:37)
• “When you make it your responsibility to ease your kids emotions, how are they ever going to learn to do that on their own?” – Mike McLeod (36:37)
• “Kids do what works.” – Mike McLeod (42:00)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:14: The exhaustion and confusion of modern parenting
• 06:38: Is ADHD really increasing, or just overdiagnosed?
• 08:26: Rise in prompt dependency and parents as executive functioning “systems”
• 10:44: The “ADHD paradox” and the dangers of overhelping
• 15:21: What ADHD and executive functioning really mean
• 21:50: The emotional cost of "big feelings" on parents
• 28:13: Parent coaching as the #1 evidence-based intervention
• 30:33: Myths around diet, supplements, and quick fixes
• 35:24: Use 90% less language—why over-explaining fails
• 42:00: Kids do what works—why boundaries and consistency matter

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Takeaways

• Parenting today is uniquely challenging, but kids aren’t more “broken”—they just face a different world.
• Building independence in children is about reducing prompts and letting natural consequences teach.
• Executive functioning skills—not grades or talents—are the greatest predictors of a child’s future success.
• Parent coaching and self-education, not endless negotiation or overprotectiveness, is the key to sustainable parenting.
• Reject the myth of the “perfect parent”—honesty, acceptance, and less talking (“Because I said so") go a long way.

For more:

• Find “The Executive Functioning Playbook” on Amazon.
• Follow @GrowNowADHD for practical strategies.
• Tune in to more episodes for candid, supportive parenting dialogue.

Transcript

[Ashley Akineti]

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[Mike McLeod]

He's dribbling the ball with everything on the line. He's driving down the pitch. He's facing price hikes and cuts past him. Carrier contracts, tries to block him. Oh, he leaves him in the dust. He's at the edge of the box. He cuts past the nonstop group chat, trash talk. He clears on goal. He shoots no unlimited data for $25 a month forever. Visit your local Boost Mobile store today to get unlimited data with a price that never changes. Boost Mobile After 30 charge, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost $25 Unlimited plan.

[Juliana]

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[Ashley Akineti]

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[Bill]

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[Ashley Akineti]

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[Juliana]

Welcome to Bill and Juliana the Podcast. Welcome to Bill and Juliana the Podcast. And today we are tackling a really important question. Why is parenting so hard?

[Bill]

So hard. So hard.

[Mike McLeod]

Yes.

[Bill]

You know, I have to say, this is a big episode. And here's the bottom line, guys. And. And you. A lot of the parents out there feel this way. We're more connected than ever. We're more informed than ever. Yet most of us are completely exhausted and confused. So are we doing too much? Are our kids just struggling more than like our generation did? Does modern parenting just come with a whole new set of challenges? So to help us make sense of all of it, we are joined now by someone that we is, you know, we feel is a very trusted expert for us.

[Juliana]

He's been very helpful for us, for our family.

[Bill]

I'll tell you how we met, actually. But we are joined by Mike McLeod. He's an expert in ADHD, executive functioning, and child development. He has spent more than 20 years helping kids.

[Juliana]

Speak of the devil. That's our son, Colleen.

[Bill]

Oh, my God. Do you see Mike? Okay, so he has spent more than 20 years helping kids and families thrive, and through his fabulous company called Grow nowadhd. And that's actually how I saw him on Instagram. I saw his Instagram.

[Juliana]

And he's an all around great guy as well, so I'm really thrilled to have him here.

[Bill]

Thanks for being here today.

[Mike McLeod]

Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. I wish I was there in person.

[Bill]

I know. We wish you were here, too. So Mike was supposed to be here with us in Chicago in our studio here, and unfortunately, his flight got canceled from Philly last night. There was a storm, right, Mike?

[Mike McLeod]

Yeah, there was. It seemed like it was a really bad storm, like a tornado watch. And they. I had the old delay, delay, delay, and then finally canceled it. I waited as long as I could, but it just didn't happen.

[Bill]

And you know, you know, Mike is doing a great job when the parents love him and even the kid loves him because. And let me tell you, Duke doesn't love you every day. I'm going to be honest with you. You know, sometimes you push him too hard, he says, and, you know, it gets him out of his comfort zone, but that's where he grows. But I will say, when he heard you were coming to Chicago and he was going to actually meet you in person, he was so excited. So Excited. And then today when we told him that the flight got canceled, he was very sad.

[Ashley Akineti]

Mike.

[Juliana]

I would, I mean, it was bumped. Bumped, yeah.

[Bill]

Sad. Let's just go with the very sad.

[Juliana]

All right, we'll go with that.

[Mike McLeod]

Yeah, definitely A little hot and cold there. You can tell, you know, if I'm going to keep pushing him, obviously he's going to, he's going to get annoyed every now and then and he needs, he needs to hear how it is because that young man can do anything he sets his mind to and he, he needs someone to remind him and sometimes that can be a little frustrating.

[Bill]

So I came across Mike's amazing work on Instagram where I come across a lot of things. That's really why we started this show, right, Bill? Because of Instagram and all the questions people have. And I saw Mike's videos started kind of. They got in my algorithm. Mike, you got in my algorithm because I would always click on this stuff about parenting, especially with kids, because I was so confused as my son, you know, is executive functioning. What does that mean? It sounds like all these things people are saying about ADH and executive functioning sounds a lot like my 13 year old son. And so I started watching a lot of Mike's videos and then I think I DMed you initially and then we chatted with you and you've been amazing. You know, so many kids, as I'm sure you will confirm, you know, are, it seems like are just, you know, are adhd, have need work with executive functioning. So let's just hop in. Well, let's start there.

[Juliana]

The numbers don't lie. And is it just that we're able to diagnose things better or has the world changed and are the numbers really growing or have they always been this bad? If you look at the rate of adhd, the rate of autism, all the things that are troubling our kids today, it's 10x from where it was 40 years ago.

[Bill]

Yeah. What's your take on that, Mike?

[Mike McLeod]

Yeah, so it's really a mix of both. Overall we definitely have under diagnosed in the past, especially with females. Young girls were sort of weren't that stereotypical hyperactive type, much more inattentive and more internalizing things. So we definitely underdiagnosed in females and girls and I think now with, you know, mom said it best as, as she usually does, we're very extra informed now and maybe we're a little too informed where, you know, I think now, especially with all the, the screens and this attention economy, we're in it's hard to find someone that doesn't think they have ADHD these days. Everyone's always like, oh, I think I have it. Because it's one of those, like, quirky little things. And all of our attention has taken a real shot. So I think it's a nice mix of over diagnosing and under diagnosing. I think it's a little bit of both.

[Bill]

So, Mike, from when you've started to today, I mean, I imagine the demand is tenfold, right? Like, I imagine.

[Mike McLeod]

Absolutely.

[Bill]

You must get so many people reaching out to you, saying, my son, I think my son has this, my daughter has this. What do I do?

[Mike McLeod]

Right.

[Bill]

And I'm so curious. What. What are the questions you get the most? Like, what are a lot of parents feeling right now when it comes to their kids? Especially, let's say, I mean, really any age, kids, preteen teen, young kids, everything

[Mike McLeod]

pretty much today with parenting revolves around, I need my kid to be more independent. Because that's pretty much what we're dealing with right here, is we're dealing with a youth mental health crisis, a parenting crisis. And a lot of this is due to the lack of executive functioning skills and these skills that are so crucial to being able to take charge of your own life, to execute, to notice and do, to not be so prompt, dependent on the adults in your life, the parents, to be the executive functioning system for you. So, so many of these kids just need prompt after prompt after prompt to get up in the morning and get to school on time, to set playdates and start hanging out with their friends, to. To get to bed on time, to do their homework, to do basic chores. Parents are just doing too much. And the mental load for, you know, most often is one of the parents or sometimes both of the parents. The absolute exhaustions. How many parents today, how many parents listening to this podcast right now are the executive functioning system for their entire family? And they don't. They never get a chance to take their parenting hat off and just be themselves and hang out with their friends and follow their interests. So what we're dealing with right now is just, how do I get my son to be able to do more and for me to do less? And that's all executive functioning.

[Bill]

Yeah. Because it really does feel like every parent is talking about this. You know, it's funny, we're sending Duke

[Juliana]

to camp for the first time, per your advice, Mike.

[Mike McLeod]

That's right.

[Juliana]

He's gonna love it. Helped kind of push that along. So thank you.

[Bill]

Yeah. And it's Kind of like he does not want to go. He did not want to go. He's coming around more. But he's.

[Juliana]

Well, he started to realize it's non negotiable.

[Bill]

Well, he started realizing things like, well, am I supposed to make my own bed? And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, and okay, and how will I eat? I'm like, you know, and what will I. How am I gonna function in this world? And it's interesting because for the reasons we're sending him to camp are the reasons we're seeing why he needs camp is because he literally cannot do anything without a prompt from us. And are you saying that that's what you're seeing? I like how you said that, like kids have to be prompted more than ever.

[Ashley Akineti]

And.

[Bill]

And is that why something like camp is good for kids? Right. And giving them those experiences?

[Mike McLeod]

And that's exactly it. Because how many parents today are operating under the constant mindset? Every second of every day they're thinking in their mind, nothing gets done unless I step in. Where the second you wake up, you know your kid's not going to do anything unless you're there, unless you're the audience. And we know how ADHD kids are with an audience. That's where. That's when all the behaviors happen as they're getting that attention. So the parents are just stuck in this anxiety trap where they know that everything's going to fall apart unless I step in, take charge and take control here, which then I refer to this as the ADHD paradox, where the child basically has these executive functioning challenges, is very prompt, dependent, and instead of sort of figuring things out on their own, having multiple adults in their lives hold them accountable like we all had when we were kids. Now kids are spending more time at home with their parents than ever before. So the kid's very prompt, dependent, and the parent start to think nothing gets done unless I step in. And they unintentionally become a helicopter parent. They end up over prompting, which then stimulates their negative attention stimulation. They get lots of dopamine from negative attention and conflict. And it just feeds into this vicious cycle. So, you know, that's really what's happening, is parents are stuck knowing that if I don't help, everything's going to fall apart. But the over helping is making everything fall apart.

[Juliana]

I want to just take a step back. You've been doing this 20 years now. How did you get into it? Explain to people, because you were kind of, I guess, a visionary. I mean, you saw the road that we were going down as a society. But just tell everyone kind of how you got into this and how you've become such an expert.

[Mike McLeod]

Oh, sure, yeah. So I always wanted to be a teacher, even when I was a young kid. I used to do tons of babysitting when I was a kid and working with different camps and different groups. So I always wanted to be a teacher. My mom was a very, very decorated teacher over in Long island, where I grew up. So she was a. She taught at the same high school where she went as a student and then was there for decades and decades and was the head of her department, and she would tutor kids after school. So in the house I grew up in, there were kids coming in and out constantly, and she was tutoring them for their SATs and their math Regents exams and all those different things. So I went into the School of Education for my undergrad and my. I eventually, you know, down the road, ended up working at this residential treatment facility in New York where kids lived full time on campus because they had such complex needs. And they also went to schools. They were pretty much never with their parents. They were always in this residential facility. And I was able to work. I was one to one with a student, and he started to receive speech and language therapy. And I realized, hey, I can work with students one on one on skills that actually improve their quality of life. It helps them, you know, interact with better. It makes them feel better about themselves. Instead of teaching them, like, math, facts and the periodic table and things they'll never use, I can actually teach them things that make them feel good about themselves and improve their quality of life. So I went back to get my second bachelor's degree in speech and language pathology. So I was a speech and language pathologist. I moved from New York to Philadelphia, and during my first year as a speech pathologist, I was working with this great organization that works with boys and girls with these different chromosomal disorders. And my supervisor was an apraxia specialist. And I found out that all the majority of these kids also had adhd. And I realized very quickly that there's really nothing out there that's actually moving the needle for these kids. They're being sent to all these talk therapies and counseling and cognitive behavioral therapy, dbt, social skills group. And nothing is helping them make friends outside of the group. Nothing's helping them go to college. Nothing. Nothing's helping them achieve their goals. And the parents are spending all these hours and all this, all their money on these therapies. And counseling and nothing's helping. So that's when I took a very huge deep dive with all those doctors and neuropsychs down in D.C. and Annapolis, Maryland. And I took a deep dive into the work of Dr. Russell Barkley, who's the worldwide leader on ADHD, who just recently retired. Dr. George McCloskey, Sarah Ward, Kristen Jacobson, just the great pioneers in this field. And I developed the grow now internal skills model. We did a year long research study on it down here and everything's expanded from there.

[Bill]

Yeah, amazing. So let's start at the beginning. Explain first and foremost what is adhd? Or maybe I should say people know what it means, but what are some of the symptoms of adhd? Like what are some of the ways it manifests itself? And then also executive functioning, of course.

[Mike McLeod]

And that is a fantastic question because both of those things are so incredibly misunderstood. Because first of all, ADHD is not an attention disorder. It's not about attention, it's not about hyperactivity, it's not about inattentiveness, ADHD. And Dr. Russell Barkley describes this better than anyone. ADHD is a developmental disorder of executive functioning skills. So there's a big, a lot of discussion now of let's change ADHD to efdd, executive functioning developmental disorder, because that's really what it's all about. So ADHD is all about executive functioning. You can have executive functioning challenges and not have adhd. Sure you can be depressed and, or have other primary diagnoses, but if you have adhd, you struggle with executive functions, period. And executive functions are the most crucial set of skills for all human beings to develop. The greatest predictor of success for all human beings, far greater than your grades, your homework, your good looks like you two, all those different things, it's all about executive functions. So you have to have your executive functioning skills to be able to live on your own, live independently, get a job, keep a job, make friends, keep friends, all of that.

[Bill]

So what are some executive functions?

[Mike McLeod]

Yep. So most people hear the term executive functions and they think time management, organization, messy backpacks, messy folders. And that is an incredibly, that is the smallest possible fraction of what executive functions are. So I break down executive functions into the four pillars of internal skills. The first executive skill is self awareness, which is the very first executive skill to develop. Do you guys know what age that starts, what age that develops?

[Bill]

Self awareness, self awareness.

[Mike McLeod]

Three little, even, even younger, little tiny babies, little babies start to realize, hey, wait a second, when I cry, what happens? I get what I want There you go. My mom, mom and dad come, they hold me, they sing to me. And you know, when I smile in mom's face, mom smiles back and they start to realize, hey, I have an effect over my world. I can actually do things that change the world around me. That's the beginning of self awareness, the first executive skill to develop, but over time becomes one of the most delayed. And that's the real heartbreak of adhd, right around those middle school years when the lack of self awareness impacts them socially. So because that, that can really, really impact them in a big way. And then the big one is self regulation. So the ability to regulate your emotions, your language, your body, your behavior in various environments towards various stimuli. So it's not hyperactivity, it's the inability to regulate your body, it's not inattentiveness, it's the inability to regulate your thoughts. But really at its core it is an emotional dysregulation issue. And Dr. Russell Barkley talks about this all the time. As you look at the dsm, the diagnostic standards manual of all the criteria to get diagnosed with adhd, it doesn't talk about emotions, but ADHD is all about emotion management and emotion dysregulation. That's the core of it. And then of course, self motivation towards non preferred tasks, non screen based tasks, new tasks like camp and things like that. Then self evaluation, the ability to learn from past experiences, apply it to the present and not repeat mistakes over and over. So the lack of internal skills creates all those external symptoms we inappropriately focused on for far too long. He's dribbling the ball with everything on the line. He's driving down the pitch. He's facing price hikes and cuts past him. Carrier contracts, tries to block him. Oh, he leaves him in the dust. He's at the edge of the box. He cuts past the non stop group chat, trash talk. He clears on goal. He shoots. No unlimited data for $25 a month. Forever. Visit your local Boost Mobile store today to get unlimited data with a price that never changes. Boost MO Mint Mobile After 30GB, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost $25 Unlimited plan. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea. For the commercial, give it a try and mint mobile.com switch upfront payment of

[Bill]

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[Ashley Akineti]

busy See Terms this is Ashley from the Ben and Ashley I Almost I Miss podcast. Did you know that over 70% of new parents are combo feeding? They're using both breast milk and formula to feed their baby. Whether you're exclusively formula feeding, combo feeding or just want to back up in the pantry, Bobby is the formula that I trust to deliver safe complete nutrition to my baby's bottle. Both of my children used Bobby. We loved it so much, had the best experience with this brand. They're incredible. The customer service, what they stand for. Bobby's organic European style formulas are crafted with clinically backed ingredients and designed for easy digestion just like breast milk. I did a lot of research before formula feeding and I loved what I saw from Bobby. Every single batch goes through 2000 plus safety and quality checks before leaving their owned US manufacturing facility. If you want to feed with confidence to head to hi bobby.com that is high H I B O B B I E to find your baby's new favorite formula.

[Mike McLeod]

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[Bill]

So one thing that in working with Mike I think Bill and I found very surprising right about the whole kind of about executive functioning. ADHD is when you have a kid who needs to strengthen his executive functioning, has some adhd, you find that they have these big feelings and big emotions. You hear about this with kids and they have these big feelings, big emotions, the high highs, low lows and and as a parent you can't help but come to the rescue of those big feelings and emotions. And Mike says na na na na na na na na. That's what you should not be doing. What parents do and what we think is our job is to like talk to them about these emotions and reason with them and spend hours and you hear that? That's one of. I think, Mike, one of the reasons a lot of these parents are so exhausted and I probably learned this from you, is because we're just all. It feels like all day, we're just talking through the, this, these like emotions and, and a lot of them are repetitive, right? Like they, they like, like you think that you solved it two days ago and then it comes up again. And so Bill and I thought, like, oh, my gosh, you know, are we failing as parents? Are we not good parents? Are we not listening enough? Are we not giving him the right solutions? All this stuff? And then we go to Mike and Mike goes, well, I'll let you talk, Mike, but you. Mike basically was like, hey, guys, no, no, no, you need to back off. He knows exactly what he's doing. So our son falls within these guidelines of adhd. He's, he's. He uses a lot of these, like, big emotions in this whole self awareness. When you're talking about self awareness. Our son is very self aware of

[Mike McLeod]

what he can and can't get, as are you two.

[Bill]

So, Mike, talk a little bit about kind of when you hear parents come to you and they go, my gosh, you know, I, I do everything I can. I talk to my kid. I do everything I can. What your first reaction when your parents

[Juliana]

and your strategy, because you have a. You gave us great advice and I'd love for you to share that with the people at home.

[Ashley Akineti]

Yeah.

[Mike McLeod]

First of all, one of my favorite things about working with Duke is talking to him first and then talking to the two of you. I feel like I'm in like a time portal of like talking to the younger version and the older version. It's like, it's the coolest thing ever, seeing the similarities and like, it's just, it's such a. You guys, such a. Such a close knit, beautiful family. It's the coolest thing ever. But, but just, just overall, that's, that's exactly what it is, is, you know, we are treating kids. And Jonathan Haidt talks about this, the author of the the Anxious Generation, a super popular book. We're treating kids as if they are fragile. And that's exactly what social media is doing here, is we have to realize a lot of these parenting gurus that are hitting your algorithm are parenting influencers. And what are the videos that are going and the reels that are going to get the most likes, shares and follows the ones that speak to your parenting hearts and your. And pull out your parenting heartstrings. You Know the best advice we get in life and that helps us in our career, our relationships, parenting. The best advice isn't advice that's easy to hear, like, do you want help or do you want a hug? Like, do you want the real truth or are you looking to have your kid in therapy for years and years and years and years? Like therapy is a trillion dollar industry in this country and counseling and all these different things. You know, we have to be brutally honest with parents about screen time and negative attention seeking and allowing our kids to experience life and experience consequences. You know, we talk about these huge emotions, but who's the one seeing, like, who's the one seeing these big emotions? Is it the people at school or is it the parents?

[Bill]

Right? So with us, Mike, as you know, it's interesting, Mike said that he's right. Like, so Mike, one thing he always points out about. We'll tell him something like some. An interaction, right? A conversation we had with Duke where he had big emotions and, and it was exhausting for all of us. And then Michael say, but how was he at school that day? How was he at school the next day? And we're like, perfect angel. And he goes, okay. And so what. What Mike is basically saying is like, you have to start differentiating his behavior at home with the two of you who are constantly giving him what he wants based on his behavior as opposed to the outside world. He acts very differently because he's like, it's not going to work out there. This isn't going to work out in the real world. But it works at home.

[Mike McLeod]

Yeah. And sometimes I refer to it as like proximity based adhd. And I've discussed this with both of you before, is every step Duke takes away from you guys, you can basically just add a point to his maturity and his behavior. That's exactly it. And everyone associates ADHD with school and studying and grades. But it's the home, it's the parents that always get the worst of the behaviors. It's not a school based problem. It's a home based issue. Because that black and white, very rigid ADHD brain of this is good, this is bad, this is fun, this is stupid. Has a very hard time comprehending this concept of unconditional love. The most, you know, the most gray area thing there possibly is. So the, the only unconditional relationships they have is mom and dad. So in their mind, it's, you know, here is this person that I could say basically unspeakable things to. I could say no to every single thing they asked me to do and they're still going to tuck me in at night and give me the WI fi password and do this and do that. They have a very hard time comprehending unconditional love in an unstructured environment. Then they go to school and it's structured, it's. They know what to expect, but it's also filled with conditional relationships and they respond really well to that. And, and if they can do it at school, they can do it at home.

[Juliana]

You once said it's oftentimes a parenting problem. And not that they're neglecting their kids, but that the parents aren't coached. Right. So how much of your job is coaching the parents? Because it's when parents react a certain way, they're putting fuel on the fire. Right. And they're perpetuating these behaviors and everything that's happening with their children. So, you know, is it more the parents or is it the kid like a chicken or egg?

[Mike McLeod]

The number one most evidence based treatment for kids and teens 19 years and below, the most science, the most research that shows the most progress for ADHD and executive dysfunction is parent training. There's nothing has more research to back it up. It is always parent behavior training. And that's where you see the majority of the progress. Because so many parents just get stuck of why won't my child just do the task? Why won't they just do what I ask them to do? Let's reframe that a little bit. Instead of saying why won't they do the task? What are they doing instead of the task? Are screens available to them? Every day I have a conversation, why won't my son do his chores? Why won't he go out with friends? Why won't he do his homework? What's he doing instead? Oh, he's on his phone. Well, there you go. He's got to do that. And then is conflict available to them? Are they able to get dopamine through conflict? What is the environment happening? What's, how can, how can we best, you know, train these individuals? That's why I titled my book the Executive Functioning Playbook, because parents needed a true playbook on how to best deal and best parent these kids. Because you can't really go off of your parenting instincts when there is this executive dysfunction.

[Juliana]

So if parents read that book, you feel that they'll be armed for warfare, so to speak.

[Mike McLeod]

Ready to go?

[Juliana]

Okay, good. So we're read that Julian are going on vacation while he's on a camp, we're going to read that thing Cover to cover.

[Bill]

Yes.

[Juliana]

And hopefully we're going to come back

[Bill]

because I did start reading it and then I agree. I think we have to read it together as a couple. And then also there's a workbook that goes with it as well. Right, Mike, that you can also get the workbook. I have the workbook. I got it on Amazon. And yeah, no, it's great because I agree parent training is so essential, which we discovered.

[Juliana]

But Mike, one of the things that we love to do on Bill and Julian of the podcast is debunk a lot of the myths that are on Instagram Reels and TikTok and all this. And I see so much about give your kid. What's that one thing? We tried it. The herb or whatever that you're giving.

[Bill]

Saffron.

[Juliana]

Saffron.

[Bill]

I'm doing it too. I'm taking a chocolate.

[Juliana]

How important is diet and all these supplements and detox this and heavy metals that and blah, blah. I mean like I don't. My head spins because everyone is an expert on the Internet.

[Mike McLeod]

You, you got that right, 100%. So diet's important for everybody. It's like you want to live your, to your optimal stage of development in life. Diet is very, very important. Processed foods are going to negatively impact, you know, everyone. But at the end of the day, ADHD is brain based. ADHD is something is genetic. You are most often born with it. There's a lot of talk about the elimination diet and all these different things. There's very, very little research, like real, true peer reviewed research to back up any of these supplements or elimination or anything like that. At the end of the day, executive function is strengthened through varied experiences and interpersonal relationships. There is nothing our ADHD kids and teens more than, than doing different things every single day, going outside and playing in nature, exercise and having real face to face experiences. It's not a coincidence that we're seeing all, we're seeing ADHD diagnoses skyrocketing. We're in the middle of this horrible youth mental health crisis. We just saw Metta and everyone on trial. We just saw all these different things.

[Ashley Akineti]

Yeah.

[Mike McLeod]

You know, in this, in this era of screens when, you know, the real issue with screens is they keep kids indoors. You know, back in the day you used to come home from school, get on your bike and you know, be home by dinner time and make it there without a GPS and just, you know, be home when the street lights come on and figure it out. No, no air tag in your shoe. No life360 none of those things. Just figure it out and come home and we would just, we were, we were bored a lot. And what do you do when you're bored? We use our imagination. What's a fancy term for your imagination? Executive functions. The ability to make mental movies and imagine things and work towards those images. So back in the day, kids played, they went outside, they had tons of social interactions every day. They did things they didn't want to do. It's, it's. Those are the things that are going to build grit and resilience and self regulation and self soothing. So like, people are always looking for that quick fix and you can't blame them. We live in an instant gratification society now.

[Juliana]

So our son eating a bowl of cinnamon toast crunch every night before he goes to bed is okay?

[Mike McLeod]

There's other options. I would prefer some mama to pandy, please.

[Juliana]

Yes.

[Mike McLeod]

Wow.

[Juliana]

I love your way to name dragon. I love that parents want to be their kid's best friend.

[Bill]

Right?

[Juliana]

Well, and I think that's a problem.

[Mike McLeod]

Perfectly fine.

[Juliana]

They want to be the cool parents. They want to be the, you know, like, I'm his butt, I'm cool. Right.

[Mike McLeod]

And that's what social media is doing. It's the immense pressure on parents from all these parenting gurus. It's not normal to pick up your phone 20 times a day and every time you open Instagram, it's another parenting person yelling at you about this concept of the perfect parent. You know, parenting is always, has always been that phenomenon of the more work you put in, it actually gets kind of, kind of harder. It's always that thing like, like, let's talk about this right now. Both of you, you know, very successful, you many, many goals reached, you've accomplished many goals and done many great things. Parenting is probably number one on the list in terms of hardest things you've ever done. Correct.

[Bill]

Not even a question beyond.

[Mike McLeod]

There you go. So of all the things you've done, all the, all the different jars you've reached out to, parenting is the number one thing that has been the most difficult thing. And that's what it is. So it's not about, you know, who you are, whatever it is. Raising a human being is an imperfect science. And the more we push this concept of the perfect parent on parents, we're creating parenting burnout.

[Bill]

Yeah, there's. It is parenting burnout.

[Mike McLeod]

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[Ashley Akineti]

This is Ashley Akineti from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast. Did you know that over 70% of new parents are combo feeding? They're using both breast milk and formula to feed their baby. Whether you're exclusively formula feeding, combo feeding or just want to back up in the pantry, Bobby is the formula that I trust to deliver safe complete nutrition to my baby's bottle. Both of my children used Bobby. We loved it so much. Had the best experience with this brand. They're incredible. If you want to feed with confidence too, head to hi bobby.com that is high h I b o b b I e dot com to find your baby's new favorite formula.

[Mike McLeod]

Some so called SUVs feel more like toys. You need a real vehicle that'll handle real life. A real SUV like the all new 2027 Kia Seltos with its best in class interior room. It'll make the others feel like toys. Check out the new 2027 Kia Seltos X line. It's real world ready Kia Movement that inspires limited inventory available comparison based on publicly available data regarding Cargo Room in 2026 entry All Wheel Drive CUVs well as as of May 2026 entry All Wheel Drive CUV class as defined by Kia Segmentation. I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment from kqed. Every week snap drops you inside someone's biggest decision. The kind of decision you can only make once. With everything on the line. What do you believe? What do you want and what would you risk to get Find out Snap Judgment New episodes every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. The number one tip Dr. Russell Barkley talks about this Everything is use 90% less language. Language makes dysregulation worse. The more you talk, expect bigger behaviors. Talking, talking, talking. We all watched a little too much Full House growing up with all those heart to hearts with Bob Saget on the end of the bed and all the talking and the talking that's not going to work with today's generation. The talking, the examples of this, the that, all of that. I had a video that was very powerful a couple couple of months ago about hey it's time we bring back because I said so like, our parents said it, we accepted it, we moved on. Some things don't need an explanation. You know, dad said, dad said it earlier. Everyone's trying to be their kid's best friend now. And that's because of all the parenting pressures. And you see videos of inside people's homes and all these different things. So. And parents are being taught that all of these emotions are their responsibility. If my kids says, I don't like you, or gets angry or gets upset or gets anxious, it's my responsibility to fix those emotions. And when you, when you make it your responsibility to ease your kids emotions, how are they ever going to learn to do that on their own? You know, the rule of all of parenting is let's give this kid the skills because eventually I'm not going to be there to help them. And we forget that sometimes that's the biggest thing. So, so we, so we need to realize, you know, not everything needs an explanation. Not everything needs all these words, words, words.

[Bill]

So less words. Yeah. Mike really, Mike really taught Bill and I that, that I think that especially Bill, because Bill is such an amazing dad. He's like, Duke is like. Loves him so much. He's just the greatest dad to Duke. And so what Duke does is when Duke wants something, he goes to Bill and. But it doesn't just like, hey, it's not like, hey, dad, I would like this new Pokemon card. It's very like, oh, I'm having the worst day of my life. What's wrong, Duke? Oh my God, Dad. I don't know. I'm just down. Oh my God. Oh my God. How can I save you? Let me rescue you. Oh my God. What could I do, Duke? Let's talk about if I just had a Pokemon card. I'd feel so much better. Okay, Duke, that's all it takes is a Pokemon card. I'll give you the Pokemon card. It's like this continuous, you know, but it comes from bliss. Like it's not just Duke asking us.

[Mike McLeod]

His self awareness. His self awareness is off the chart.

[Bill]

His off the charts meaning he has learned how to push. Push our buttons, how to create this huge dramatic thing to get. And we, and he tricks us so much of the time because at the end we go, oh, my God, we just got duped. He just played us.

[Juliana]

Yeah, we just got duped.

[Bill]

He did all of that and made it like this whole emotional thing that. And really at the end of the day, he was just trying to get from A to B. He was just trying to get us to agree to Something that we had not agreed to a month ago.

[Juliana]

He's able to play chess. We're playing checkers. He's playing chess.

[Bill]

Yes. And so it's kind of fascinating. So what Mike always tells us, you guys, and if your kids like this too, and this is resonating, he says, what we do. And I do this better than Bill because we know. We've talked about this, right. With Mike, and I've tried to get even better at this, but it's like, less words. Mike is so right. I am very much like a less words person in life. Oh, I know. I talk a lot on this.

[Juliana]

What did you say? Said. No one ever literally said nobody.

[Bill]

Ever so shy. I never speak. No, I'm very much like. I'm like my parents, you know, I'm very much like, no, Juliana, no. Like, just no. I'm like that with Duke. Like, Duke will come in. I'm like, no, Duke. Not getting it. Sorry. And he gets and gets all mad. With Bill, it's like. And I go, bill, why are you. Why are you using all these words? Stop talking to him for an hour about this. He's just playing you and trying to get what he wants. No, but I think he's really upset, right, Mike? Like, that's where parents. Their heart starts. Like, they're like, what if my kid is actually really upset and something's going on? Like, and then you feel like you're being cold to them? Well, yeah, right?

[Juliana]

We'll save this for the next episode.

[Bill]

Well, I'm just asking. I want to know.

[Mike McLeod]

This young man is an absolute genius. That's exactly what it is. He has the gift of gab, the gift of charm. He has the good, positive qualities of both of you in a 13 year old's body. It's exactly what it is. Like, he lights up a room, he knows exactly what it is. He knows exactly what he's doing. And everything is about attention and an audience. He knows to make it seem like he wants a material good or a thing or an event, but it's looking for the audience. It's looking for that attention. So whether it's sympathy seeking or negative attention seeking or whatever it may be, it's to just have an audience, to have those things there. Like that old saying of if a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound? If mom and dad aren't in the same room, is there a behavior? And that's exactly it. So, like, when you see this young man going to all these different places. And parents need to think about this, too. Like, so many parents will call the school and describe their kid at home, and the school's like, are we talking about the same kid here? Like, he's an angel here. What are you talking about? And then the. The parents describe at home, and it's like, really, really scary things. Because these kids know that if it stays a secret of the home and there's no coach, teacher, social worker, taekwondo master, whatever it may be to hold them accountable and talk to them about it, then they're just going to keep getting away with it because it works.

[Juliana]

It's a.

[Mike McLeod]

Kids do what works. And if getting negative, negative attention works, they're going to do it. It's the same thing as opening a cupboard and seeing a treat and eating it. They do what works, and it works.

[Juliana]

Mike, thank you so much for your time. This was great. We're going to have you in person. If people want to get your book, where can they go get your.

[Mike McLeod]

So the book is available everywhere. You can find it on Amazon, the Executive Functioning Playbook and the Executive Functioning Playbook in Action. Barnes and Nobles, Amazon, wherever books are sold.

[Juliana]

Great.

[Bill]

Yeah. Check it out. And then also follow him on Instagram. Grow nowadhd. That's how I found him on Instagram. And he's amazing. And you post videos all the time.

[Juliana]

He'll make your life better.

[Bill]

Yeah. And then, of course, you can reach out to him, DM him or go on his website and you can also.

[Juliana]

We want him busy, but not too busy.

[Bill]

Get a session. Book a session for yourself. I have recommended my friends to him. We do zooms with him.

[Juliana]

Don't forget about us, Mike. When you're.

[Bill]

We do zooms. We do zooms with him. And it's very, very effective. Sometimes we break down the zoom. It'll be like 45 minutes. Duke will do. And then 15 minutes. Us at the end. Or 30 minutes. 30 minutes.

[Juliana]

We're gonna switch it, though. We're do more parent coaching, I think.

[Bill]

Yeah, we need more parent coaching. We are. Ye.

[Mike McLeod]

You guys need to. More and more of these parenting episodes. Like, the two of you are like, you know, obviously, like, parenting is a stressful thing, but the two of you are just such incredible parents. The more that you two talk about your parenting experiences, I think. I think the two of you doing more parenting episodes is what's going to cure this parenting burnout crisis.

[Juliana]

It's a work in progress, but thank you, Mike.

[Bill]

We're honest about it. We're not acting like we know what we're doing. So, Mike, you're the best.

[Juliana]

Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it. We'll see you in Chicago this fall.

[Bill]

Yeah, we'll see you soon.

[Mike McLeod]

Can't wait. Thank you so much.

[Juliana]

Okay, bye. Thank you. Thank you, Mike.

[Bill]

Thanks, Mike.

[Mike McLeod]

Bye.

[Bill]

Thanks, everyone for watching.

[Mike McLeod]

He's dribbling the ball with everything on the line. He's driving down the pitch. He's facing price hikes and cuts past him. Carrier contracts, tries to block him. Oh, he leaves him in the dust. He's at the edge of the box. He cuts past the nonstop group chat, trash talk. He clears on goal. He shoots. Go unlimited data for $25 a month forever. Visit your local Boost Mobile store today to get unlimited data with a price that never changes. Boost mobile after 30gb, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost $25 unlimited plan.

[Bill]

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[Mike McLeod]

Shop [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Bobcat. They started the compact equipment industry through grit, determination and a whole lot of think we can't do that. Watch us. They set standards, broke records, empowered people to build bigger and higher, to dig deeper, to make the impossible possible. We've all been there with doubters telling us what we can't do. Who cares what they think? We don't need their permission or forgiveness. We just get things done. So go ahead and doubt me, judge me, challenge me. But when the time comes, watch me. Bobcat this is an iHeart podcast.

[Ashley Akineti]

Guaranteed Human.