No Spin News - Weekend Edition - March 29, 2025

Summary

Bill O’Reilly’s No Spin News and Analysis

Episode: No Spin News - Weekend Edition - March 29, 2025
Release Date: March 29, 2025
Host: Bill O’Reilly

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Introduction

Bill O'Reilly opens the episode by addressing outdated references and promoting the Discover credit card. After skipping commercial segments, the discussion shifts to the current political landscape, focusing on the Democratic Party's prospects and key issues affecting its standing.

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Democratic Party Revitalization: Michelle Obama vs. Governor Shapiro

Timestamp: [00:59] - [07:31]

Discussion Overview: Dr. Seth Wright introduces the topic by highlighting Michelle Obama's popularity within the Democratic Party. However, Governor Shapiro offers a contrasting viewpoint, suggesting that Michelle Obama is unlikely to run for office and proposes himself as a potential figure to revitalize the party.

Key Points:

• Michelle Obama's Potential Candidacy:

  • Dr. Seth Wright ([00:59]): "Michelle Obama is far and away the most popular Democrat in the country."
  • Michelle Obama’s Statement ([01:15]): Expresses no interest in running for office to prioritize her children's well-being.

• Governor Shapiro's Perspective:

  • Governor Shapiro ([02:25]): Disagrees with the notion that Michelle Obama will revitalize the party, instead pointing to his own leadership and broad support in Pennsylvania as potential national revitalizers.
  • Highlights challenges such as the need for significant fundraising to increase national recognition.

• Debate on Party Identity and Voter Disengagement:

  • Governor Shapiro ([03:39]): Claims Democrats face an identity and storytelling problem, leading to voter disengagement rather than mere disapproval.
  • Dr. Seth Wright ([04:31]): Argues that declining support stems from disapproval of current Democratic leaders like Biden and Harris, emphasizing the rise of independent voters.

• Performance vs. Perception:

  • Dr. Seth Wright ([05:18]): Believes performance issues, particularly under Biden's administration, are key to the Democratic Party's decline.
  • Governor Shapiro ([06:08]): Emphasizes the importance of internal party dynamics and the lack of deliberate challenges to the status quo as detrimental to party health.

Notable Quotes:

• Michelle Obama ([01:15]): "I am not interested in politics in that way... never going to happen."
• Governor Shapiro ([03:39]): "The trend we're seeing isn't disapproval, it's disengagement."

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Immigration Enforcement: ICE Operations and Border Security

Timestamp: [07:54] - [22:54]

Discussion Overview: The conversation transitions to immigration enforcement, featuring insights from Tom Homan, Chief of Deportations at ICE. Dr. Seth Wright examines the administration's border policies, ICE's operational challenges, and the impact of sanctuary cities.

Key Points:

• Deportation Statistics and Achievements:

  • Dr. Seth Wright ([07:54]): Reports that approximately 30,000 undocumented migrants have been deported since Trump's administration began.
  • Tom Homan ([10:16]): Attributes reduced illegal crossings to Trump's policies, expressing pride in his work and commitment to factual reporting.

• Challenges with Sanctuary Cities:

  • Tom Homan ([14:11]): Explains that sanctuary cities hinder effective enforcement by releasing non-criminal migrants back into communities, complicating ICE's efforts to apprehend targets.
  • Dr. Seth Wright ([14:23]): Raises concerns about the deportation of non-criminals lacking due process.

• Operation in Boston:

  • Tom Homan ([16:28]): Details a recent operation in Boston resulting in the arrest of 370 undocumented individuals, including significant public safety threats.
  • Dr. Seth Wright ([17:17]): Questions potential legal actions against Boston officials for sanctuary policies.

• Future Enforcement Plans:

  • Tom Homan ([21:43]): Announces upcoming operations in major sanctuary cities like LA and San Francisco, emphasizing a continued commitment to President Trump's mandate on border security.

Notable Quotes:

• Tom Homan ([15:05]): "We have a target. We got a sheet. Who's the alien's name..."
• Dr. Seth Wright ([20:06]): "Do you have any idea why Joe Biden opened that border for three and a half years?"

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Media Accountability: Wall Street Journal Reporting and Free Speech

Timestamp: [23:25] - [36:22]

Discussion Overview: The episode critiques the Wall Street Journal's reporting accuracy, particularly concerning statements attributed to former President Trump. Roy Gutterman, a communications professor, debates the role of journalism and media integrity with Dr. Seth Wright.

Key Points:

• Alleged Misreporting by Wall Street Journal:

  • Bill O’Reilly ([23:25]): Accuses the Wall Street Journal’s Melissa Korn of falsely reporting President Trump derogated WWI soldiers.
  • Dr. Seth Wright ([26:26]): Emphasizes the lack of evidence supporting the reported statements.

• Role of the Press and Fact-Checking:

  • Roy Gutterman ([26:26]): Defends the media's role in uncovering the truth, even amidst occasional inaccuracies.
  • Dr. Seth Wright ([27:30]): Criticizes Goldberg and questions media bias against Trump.

• Challenges in Modern Journalism:

  • Roy Gutterman ([32:22]): Highlights the decline of independent media and the consolidation of news outlets, raising concerns about information integrity.
  • Dr. Seth Wright ([33:21]): Points out the lack of editorial standards on the internet, exacerbating misinformation.

• Impact of Media Practices:

  • Roy Gutterman ([33:52]): Discusses the spread of misinformation and its threat to democracy.
  • Dr. Seth Wright ([34:06]): Expresses worry over the erosion of civics education and historical knowledge, which hampers critical analysis of current events.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill O’Reilly ([23:25]): "There is no evidence whatsoever... That was false."
• Roy Gutterman ([26:26]): "Even if there's false information or erroneous information, that's part of the role of the press."
• Dr. Seth Wright ([34:50]): "I am the last of a breed... No editors on the Internet."

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Conclusion

Bill O’Reilly wraps up the episode by emphasizing the key discussions on Democratic Party dynamics, immigration enforcement, and media accountability. He encourages listeners to watch full episodes and engage further through his platform.

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Key Takeaways

• Democratic Party Leadership: The party faces internal challenges in identifying leaders who can reconnect with voters, with differing opinions on whether figures like Michelle Obama or individuals like Governor Shapiro are viable candidates.

• Immigration Enforcement: ICE continues to enforce deportations rigorously, facing obstacles from sanctuary cities that impede effective operations and raise questions about due process for non-criminal migrants.

• Media Integrity: Concerns are raised about the accuracy and bias in mainstream media reporting, highlighting the need for stricter fact-checking and the preservation of independent journalism to safeguard democratic discourse.

Notable Quotes with Attribution

• Michelle Obama ([01:15]): "I am not interested in politics in that way... never going to happen."
• Governor Shapiro ([03:39]): "The trend we're seeing isn't disapproval, it's disengagement."
• Tom Homan ([15:05]): "We have a target. We got a sheet. Who's the alien's name..."
• Bill O’Reilly ([23:25]): "There is no evidence whatsoever... That was false."
• Dr. Seth Wright ([34:50]): "I am the last of a breed... No editors on the Internet."

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This summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from the "No Spin News Weekend Edition" episode, providing an informative overview for those who haven't listened to the full broadcast.

Transcript

[Bill O'Reilly]

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[Tom Homan]

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[Bill O'Reilly]

Welcome to the no Spin News Weekend Edition.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Finally, the big Democrat, the one who could resurge the party, is Michelle Obama, far and away the most popular Democrat in the country. And here's what she said last week. Go.

[Michelle Obama]

When people ask me would I ever run, the answer is no. You know, I mean, you, you then, if you ask me that, then you have absolutely no idea the, the sacrifice that your kids make when your parents are in that role. Not, not only am I not interested in politics in that way, but the thought of like putting my girls back into that, you know, that spotlight when they are just now establishing themselves, it's like, you know, okay, I think we've, we've done enough question asked and answered, never going to happen.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

I hold her, as it were. I think, I think it's never going to happen because if it were going to happen, it would have happened already. So that's very interesting. And that's the memo. Joining us now is a guy who's going to give me a different point of view, which is what we want here. His name is Dr. Seth Wright. He is the assistant teaching professor of political silent at Penn State University, Harrisburg. Am I making any mistakes here? Dr.

[Governor Shapiro]

Well, you mentioned that the one who might, the one who might revitalize the Democrat Party is Michelle Obama. I would disagree. I am watching the governor of the Commonwealth, Governor Shapiro, and he's been going public. He's governed over divided government in the past, has very broad support here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and he might be the one to step up to the plate and revitalize the Democrat Party on a national level.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

He would have to do. He has to start tomorrow. Tomorrow is when he'd have to start because nobody knows him. And it takes a very, very long time for a politician to get known in the United States because of the intrusion of the cell phones. It's not like it used to be. We live in a balkanized media world. It's very hard for people to lock in. And you're correct. I like Governor Shapiro in a sense that I think he's an honest man. But for the American people to come come to know him, extremely difficult ride. He's going to have to raise a billion dollars, and I don't know if he can do that.

[Governor Shapiro]

That's the real story here, right beyond the polling numbers. Simply put, Democrats writ large have a serious identity and storytelling problem. Folks who are being surveyed about the likability or favorability of the Democrats, they're not just mad about nothing. They may be mad because they feel Democrats aren't addressing what matters to them, whether that's immigration, prices that are too high, peace in Ukraine or Gaza, global conflict, or just the sense that the world is spinning dangerously off access. The idea that birds of a feather should vote together, the vote blue, no matter who messaging this no longer resonates. So this trend we're seeing isn't disapproval, it's disengagement.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Well, I disagree with you now. I think it's disapproval of Biden and Harris, Biden's administration and Harris campaign. I think most Americans. So my belief, and maybe I'm wrong about this, but I don't think so. Most Americans are not ideological. They're not. They just want to earn a living and have a happy life and be responsible and raise their families. And you're right, they don't want all this turbulence all over the place. But they're not wedded to a party. The fastest growing party is the independent registration, as you know, so. But they see performance and Biden was so horrible and Kamala was such a poor candidate that that's what drove or is driving the Democratic numbers down.

[Governor Shapiro]

One of the key functions of a political party is to develop new candidates. This is one area where the Democrat Party totally fumbled the bag. Back to some of the recent polling. 27% of respondents in recent polls hold a favorable view of Democrats. The challenge with any kind of poll analysis is finding the mo. Just the right words, democracy to understand voter sentiment. Democrats are Brussels sprouts popular right now? 27%. That's a low opinion figure usually reserved for, you know, people who wear socks with sandals. That's how unpopular they are right now. So.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

But that's based on Performance, not perception. You see what I mean? You. You're unpopular. If you're playing for Penn State and you fumble a football four times in the first half, you're unpopular. That's what happened to the Democratic Party. Their policies were so terrible. And as I pointed out earlier, you didn't hear Bernie Sanders or Cassio Torques go, yeah, we shouldn't have an open border. Everybody got behind Biden, and then when they found out that he was, you know, out in the ozone layer, they bailed on him. But I think performance is driving it down. Last word.

[Governor Shapiro]

What I don't know is whether anyone inside of the Democrat Party machine still has a wrench in hand or if the engine's just running on groupthink fumes. Because when a system is really humming along without resistance, without any kind of challenge, or someone, you know, yelling from under the hood that the timing's off or the belt slipping, it doesn't matter how polished the dashboard looks, they're going to miss what matters. You forget why the engine was built in the first place. Consensus is dangerous when there's a dearth of deliberation. So what I don't know is who in the Democrat Party is going to go 10 toes down, is paying attention, and is ready to stand on business.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Yeah, I don't know either. I think Shapiro, as you pointed out, is doing a good job in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, but he doesn't have the power now. He doesn't have the money. He doesn't have the profile. So I'm not sure whether he's going to be the guy. Hey, Doctor, thanks very much. We appreciate your point of view. Thanks for coming on.

[Bill O'Reilly]

You're listening to the no Spin News Weekend Edition.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Latest border stats. About 30,000 undocumented migrants have been deported since Donald Trump took over a little more than two months ago. Illegal crossings from Mexico into the USA, down 94%. A colossal victory for Donald Trump, no doubt about it. And the people who oppose him are trying to chip away at that. There's no doubt about that, either. Okay, so enter the ice. Chief Tom Homan. He is in charge of deportations. I spoke with him yesterday. So, Mr. Homan, I've noticed when you appear on the network news and some cables that the questioning is often hostile to you. It's not neutral questioning. It's like, hey, what are you doing? How many people did you throw out today? And I'm sure you noticed that, too. And I'm saying to myself, why? Do you have any idea why that so many. So many of the American press corps are antagonistic to you. I rely on physical precious metals like gold and silver to protect my savings. And the only company I trust is American Hartford Gold. A tax advantaged gold IRA cash can protect your savings from inflation, recessions and more. You can even roll over your 401k or IRA tax and penalty free. With thousands of five star ratings and an A from the Better Business Bureau, American Hartford Gold has delivered billions in precious metals. Trust American Hartford Gold. To help you, call or text American Hartford Gold. Tell them Bill O'Reilly sent you for up to $15,000 of free silver on qualifying orders. 8663-2655-7686-3326,5576. Or you can text BILL to 998-899 again, 866-326-5576 or text BILL to 998-899.

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[Tom Homan]

Well, I think it's because I served President Trump. I mean, you know, when I worked for, I was a third in command ICE under Barack Obama. We had over 409,000 removals. And they weren't hostile then. So I think working for President Trump makes immediate hostile anybody that serves President Trump. But look, I'm proud to work for President Trump. I think he's the greatest president in my lifetime and especially when it comes to border security and immigration enforcement and national security. So they don't bother me. Look, if I can live with their heads rent free, I'm okay with that because I'm gonna keep telling the truth whether they like it or not. My talking points never change. I don't care if I'm talking to a conservative or talking to liberal. They're gonna hear the same thing because what I give them is facts. They can like it or not like it, but they're gonna hear the truth.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Okay, but they don't like it. Now, when you were working for President Obama, who deported more undocumented people than any other president in history, all right, and most of those were at the border, that got kicked back fast, and they didn't have this asylum con that they rose up under President Biden when you were working for Barack Obama. In my research on him from my book Confronting the Presidents, he didn't want an open border. He didn't want chaotic immigration. Am I correct there?

[Tom Homan]

Well, his first term, like I said, we removed a lot of people in the first term and largely because we're accounting border patrol removals with ICE removals. And that's how come the number got so big. But he was pushing for that. He was pushing for more removals. But under the second term, the Obama term, we pretty much got shut down. I mean, once he got the name deporter in chief, operations really slowed down. And that's one of the reasons at the end of that administration that I decided to retire after four years doing that. I was tired of it. But in the beginning he was a. About securing a border. In the last four years, he was not.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

And you think it was political pressure, obviously from the left that caused that?

[Tom Homan]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Okay. Now, one of the beefs against Homeland Security is they are not. They are deporting non criminal migrants along with the criminals. And I believe that's true to some extent, because how could you possibly know? When you go sweep a whole bunch of people say you're a criminal migrant, married to a person who isn't a criminal, stuff like that. How valid is that criticism that ICE is now deporting people quickly without due process that aren't criminals?

[Tom Homan]

Well, they all get due process. I mean, the non criminals, where does most non criminals get arrested? Sanctuary cities. And I've said this for two months, Sanctuary city is going to get exactly what they don't want. More agents in their communities and more collateral arrest. Because if we can't arrest a bad guy in a county jail, one agent arrests one criminal alien. And they're going to release them like, like the major cities, this country, Sanctuary cities. You're going to release them back in the community. Okay, fine. We're still going to do our job, which means we're going to go to the community and we're going to find him. And when we find them, most likely they're with others. Others that are illegal in the United States, but not a criminal. Well, we're not going to tell ICE agents, forget the oath we took, ignore the immigration law, walk away from these people. No, they're going to come too. So when you look at the collaterals and non criminals, most of them arrested in sanctuary cities because they forced us in that position, we're going to arrest them.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

That's an important point. So when you do a sweep, if you find a non criminal migrant, that person gets taken into custody, correct?

[Tom Homan]

To be clear, when we do a target enforcement operation, we know exactly who we're looking for and we're most likely we're going to find them. And when we go to that location, look for that target, that criminal target, many times, most times he's with others. Especially if they're at a work site, they're coming too. So sanctuary cities are forcing us into that situation. So if you. I've said this many times, let us send the jail. That means less agents in the neighborhood, that means less collaterals. But they refused to assist ice. So we're going to keep doing what we're doing.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Just to be clear, when you do an enforcement sweep, it is based upon information provided about criminal aliens, is that correct? Local, state, federal information, right?

[Tom Homan]

That's exactly right.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Okay, stop.

[Tom Homan]

I wouldn't call it a sweet bill. I call it a target enforcement operation. We have a target. We got a sheet. Who's the alien's name, what's his immigration record, what's his criminal record, where most likely will we find him? And it has to be approved by supervisors. We go on the street looking for somebody. We have a whole fugitive operation sheet that details who this person is we're looking for.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

And where do you get that information? From the States, from the locals. Where does that come from?

[Tom Homan]

Through various databases that we use at ice. I can't tell you all of them because the law enforcement sensitive, but we do targeting based on criminal databases. We use all sorts of social media. We use a lot of things I don't want to discuss here. But we create those target bases so.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

You get this stuff. And if there's an undocumented alien who is not a criminal, they get swept up, they get deported sometimes and it depends on the process. Am I correct?

[Tom Homan]

Yes.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

All right, now, Michelle Wu in Boston is heading for collision with Tom Holman, who's speaking to me right now again this weekend. She basically said we're not, we're not going to cooperate on any level. We want undocumented people in the city of Boston. And she's backed up by the Governor of Massachusetts, Maura Healey. Do you have any plans to take action against Mayor Wu and Governor Healy?

[Tom Homan]

Actually the first show where I can make this announcement. So as I promised at cpac, I was going to go to Boston. I want to bring hell with me. And we did. I was in Boston last Tuesday. I started an operation with ICE. HSI ERO, FBI, ATF, DEA, US Marshals in the State Department. And in five day operation, we arrested 370 illegal aliens in Boston and the surrounding communities in Massachusetts. And 205 of those were significant public safety threats, including four murderers, child rapists, armed robbers, a couple Interpol red nose arrests. We arrested a lot of bad people in the last five days in Massachusetts, many of them in Boston. We just put the numbers again today. You're the first show I've actually been able to talk about this. The numbers just got put out today, bill.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Excellent. But Ms. Wu is defiant even in the face of those incredible stats. And they are incredible. If you know the city of Boston, it's not New York City, it's not nearly that large. So I'm wondering whether the next step for the Justice Department, it wouldn't be. It would be the Attorney General Bondi is going to go after people like Michelle Wu for violating some tenet of federal law. Do you believe that will happen?

[Tom Homan]

I hope it will happen. I know Pam Bonney's already put sanctuary cities on notice. I know she's already sued a couple. I sent that report to Pam Bondi this morning, who we arrested in Boston and the surrounding area and the public safety threats that we had to take off the street because if we got to go to the street and arrest people like this, the job of ICE is already dangerous. But to go arrest an aggravated felon, murder, public safety threat in the general public not only puts the officer at risk, it puts the community at risk. So I sent the numbers this morning to doj. So I think Pam Bonney will take action and do what she can do. But she's already started suing sanctuary cities. So, you know, God bless Pam Bonney. I think she's going to do the right thing and I think she's going to try to hold these sanctuary cities accountable in courts.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

All right, so it'll be civil litigation, not criminal litigation. Correct.

[Tom Homan]

I'll leave that up to Pam Bondi. We'll see what happens.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

But it would be amazing to see, you know, a big city mayor or a state governor like Pritzker in Illinois or even, you know, here, Hochul in New York. She plays the double game. The damage that the Biden administration did to the country. And I know this is a political question, but it has troubled me from the very beginning.

[Bill O'Reilly]

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[Josh Hammer]

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[Dr. Seth Wright]

Seems to me to be incalculable as far as the treasury is concerned. Crime is concerned, social upheaval is concerned. Do you have any idea why Joe Biden opened that border for three and a half years? Do you have any idea why that man did that?

[Tom Homan]

No. I can only guess. And I've said many times I worked for six presidents, down with Ronald Reagan. Even when Clinton Obama took steps, as we discussed, to try to take action to secure the border, no one did more than President Trump. He was unprecedented at his success. We had the most secure border in my lifetime. But Joe Biden's the first president in my lifetime who came into office and unsecured a border on purpose. That wasn't mismanagement, it wasn't incompetence. He knew exactly what he was doing, along with Alejandro Mayorkas.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

But there must be chat, though. There must be chat in Homeland Security and in in the Border Patrol precincts about the why of all this. What did he think he was accomplishing?

[Tom Homan]

I think they saw future political benefit and let millions of people into this country. Remember when he did, when he did everything to secure the border, what else did he do? He overturned the Trump census rule, which means millions of people released in sanctuary cities will be counted next census, which will lead to more seats in House for the Dems. I think they saw a future political benefit by releasing millions of people in sanctuary cities in this country. That is my belief.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Final question. California has 50% of the undocumented migrants. Newsom is now backpedaling, as you know, but LA and San Francisco are still sanctuary cities. Do you expect anything to change in California?

[Tom Homan]

I can tell you ICE is going to. We'll be going to LA and San Francisco very soon. In sanctuary cities, we can't arrest a bad guy in jail. We'll double the man force in those cities, but we're going to do our job, sanctuary. Not if you're a sanctuary. You want to step aside and watch us protect your communities, then have at it. Just don't get in the way. Don't cross that line of normally harboring, concealing, illegal ammo. Don't cross that line of impeding us, because there will be consequences. But we're coming, we're going to do this job. President Trump promised American people. We're going to do this. American people given a mandate, this is the number one issue. We're going to keep President Trump's promise. We're going to be going to every sanctuary city and arresting public safety threats, because that's what the American people want.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

All right. Unless the court, Supreme Court, says you can't do a certain thing, you're not going to defy the federal court order, correct?

[Tom Homan]

No, we're not going to do that. We're not. The Biden administration who ignored the courts on forgiveness of student loan. They told me he couldn't do it. He did it and he fought him every step of the way on that. Well, no, this a law and order administration. We're going to do the right thing. Absolutely.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Mr. Homan, you're welcome any time. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me today.

[Tom Homan]

Thank you, sir. I appreciate you.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

I want to thank Mr. Homan again for being kind enough to come in here. We know everybody is after him for an interview. Now, I'd like you to tell me what you thought of that interview. [e-mail] Name in town if you wish to apply billoriley.com Good, bad, too hard, Too soft. Did I leave anything out? You know, give me your review. I like those reviews.

[Bill O'Reilly]

This is the no Spin News Weekend edition.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Now here's a media scandal, kind of Wall Street Journal gets delivered to my door every day. The editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal are fair and backed with facts. The news pages tilt left, but not crazy. Right. Primarily a financial newspaper. There is a reporter, Melissa Korn, okay. She is a deputy bureau chief of the media team. Wow. Got a big title. She's trying to stick up for Jeffrey Goldberg. Trying to say this man is credibility. As I reported yesterday, he was the guy who reported that President Trump in his first term went to Europe and said that US soldiers killed in World War I were suckers. That never happened. And I investigated it. Okay, Never happened. But Melissa somehow writes, quote, In September 2020, Goldberg reported that Trump referred to soldiers killed in battle during World War I as losers and suckers, citing multiple anonymous sources, said they heard the remarks. Trump contested the reporting, though his chief of staff at the time confirmed he had used those words. Not true. Not true. The chief of staff was John Kelly. Now, Kelly excoriated Trump because Trump fired him and called Trump all kinds of names, but never said that we can find. And we did a big search that Trump said dead World War I soldiers were losers and suckers and a guy in the room who also hates Donald Trump. You know him. Former National Security Adviser John Bolton said this. Go. And according to what that article said, the president made disparaging remarks about our soldiers, the people buried at the On Marne cemetery, in connection with the decision for him not to go to the ceremony that was planned that afternoon. And that was simply false. I don't know who told the author that, but that was false. Okay, that was false. Bolton was there following Trump around the whole day. And then I talked to myself, the other people who were there. Nobody heard that, even anonymously. So we have misreporting terrible journalism on the part of the Wall Street Journal. I'm surprised. I'm disappointed. Let's get another view of this. Joining us now from Syracuse, New York, is Roy Gutterman. He teaches communications at Syracuse University, but more importantly, he's a director of the Tully center for Free Speech, which is very prestigious. Am I making any mistakes here, Mr. Gutterman?

[Roy Gutterman]

I wouldn't say you're making mistakes, but this discussion. And even if there's false information or erroneous information, that's part of the role of the press, and it's part of the role of an adversarial press to root out what the truth is and what people said, regardless of who the speaker is. And.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Well, what are you referring to now? Who are you referring to now, Melissa? Corn.

[Roy Gutterman]

Corn.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Okay. But Corn is using anonymous sources and saying that Jeffrey Goldberg's reportage for Atlantic was true and it wasn't. There is no evidence whatsoever, none from John Kelly or anybody else, that Trump said dead Americans during World War I were losers and suckers. Not.

[Roy Gutterman]

And, well, if it's proving to be an untrue statement, I think we're finding that out.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

We're finding it out because of me. No one else.

[Roy Gutterman]

Part of the media.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Well, that's right. And Korn puts this in the paper yesterday, trying to bolster Goldberg's profile, when Goldberg, in my opinion, is a far left weasel. But that's my opinion, and as an analyst, I'm entitled to it, as you know. But let's look at the big, bigger picture here. I told Clay and Buck on the radio today that if I had been Jeffrey Goldberg and I had been inadvertently admitted to this national security conference, I would have listened in as a reporter, I would have taken down the information. You think I'm wrong?

[Roy Gutterman]

No. I mean, what you do with that information is a different story. But reporters, regardless of whether reporters get things and get access to things that they shouldn't get all the time, we'll go back to the Pentagon Papers. The New York Times and the Washington Post shouldn't have had those documents, but they did. And look what it did for the discussion around the Vietnam War. Reporters get leaked information all the time, and sometimes they don't use everything, and sometimes it becomes a big story. Sometimes it even becomes a controversial story as we're seeing this.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

And to be fair to Goldberg, this story happened on March 15, and he didn't break it until after the Houthi attack by the United States. So that's in his column as a positive. But what he's done in the past, just simply outrageous. This man hates Donald Trump and uses anonymous sources to hurt him. And that's why I objected to Ms. Corn's reportage. But you're correct in the sense that if you're a reporter, you have to get the information, then you decide what to do with it. And I wouldn't put it out because obviously the US Military is involved. Now, this kind of a situation, do you see it as a scandal?

[Josh Hammer]

Like a bull in a China shop. Donald Trump came in to drain the swamp in Washington, D.C. but with his bold reform and rejuvenation agenda comes so many legal questions nationwide. Injunctions, are they constitutional? What's the deal with birthright citizenship? What about the administrative state? Can he actually clean the deep state and end the politicization of the federal bureaucracy? I'm Josh Hammer, host of America on Trial with Josh Hammer. Subscribe to America on Trial with Josh Hammer for your daily updates on all of these questions and more.

[Mike Slater]

Hey, I'm Mike Slater. I have a podcast called Politics by Faith. We have a very simple mission. We take the news of the day and we filter it through a biblical worldview. So here's the big story of the day. What does the Bible say about it and how can we apply it? It's amazing. There's nothing new under the sun. The Bible has something to say about everything that's going on today. So basically, we thump the Bible over on Politics by Faith. I think we ought to keep MAGA going. And I think the way to take it beyond just a political victory into a true rebuilding and awakening and revival in America is to make sure that this is all grounded in biblical principles. And that's what we do on the podcast Politics by Faith. And you can subscribe to Politics by Faith wherever you're listening to the show right now.

[Roy Gutterman]

It's still unfolding right in front of us. So we don't know who made a mistake, what the mistake was. All we know is a reporter got access to a classified meeting that he shouldn't have had access to.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Don't you think the FBI should be interviewing the reporter and find out what the deuce is going on?

[Roy Gutterman]

I'm never a fan of law enforcement coming after reporters, so.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

But how can you. How can you protect national security then? If there was a. If there was a glitch in the national security system that allowed this guy to get on a ban, don't you think the FBI should know about it?

[Roy Gutterman]

I think the FBI has the resources to find out exactly what happened without going to the reporter. I think the reporter's the last person who knows.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Why would you object to that? If I were a reporter, I'd answer all the questions honestly. I wouldn't be offended. I'd expect the FBI to show up.

[Roy Gutterman]

Well, I think once law enforcement starts tapping into reporters or subpoenaing reporters or opening investigations into reporters, I think that can jeopardize the news gathering process. And that goes across the board, whether you're Jeffrey Goldberg at the Atlantic or a reporter at the Wall Street Journal or somebody at Fox. I think invading the news gathering process through law enforcement techniques jeopardizes the process for everybody.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

I put national security above the process of accumulating facts and information, particularly.

[Roy Gutterman]

I agree with you on that.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Yeah. Particularly when terrorism is involved. I mean, that's what I do. Okay. All right.

[Roy Gutterman]

Are there other means? Sure.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

No, I don't know if there are other means. I mean, and I wouldn't put it as an investigation. I would just say, you know, we want. Is it. We want to find out what happened. So we're going to talk to this guy. He's not under any threat of indictment at all or whatever you want to do, but Cash Patel should be doing something, in my opinion. Are you happy with the state of the media in America right now?

[Roy Gutterman]

I mean, I'd like to see more media, to tell you the truth. I think it's extremely discouraging to see independent media, particularly local media across the country, get consolidated and go out of business or cut their news hole. I think we're in a Real crisis now with news deserts around the country. And I, I think readers, citizens, and the democracy itself can be imperiled without good, independent mainstream media. And again, this is local, it's national, it's everywhere.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

I don't see any independent media in the corporations that are running the shows now on television and radio. I don't see any independents at all, do you?

[Roy Gutterman]

No. Local media, particularly television's been bought up and consolidated.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

And they do what they're told.

[Roy Gutterman]

These people do what they told you. Do what the boss tells you?

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Yeah, because they want to make money. It's all about money, not about information flow. It concerns me greatly also, and this goes right to Syracuse University and the younger people who are interested in journalism and communications. There's no editors on the, on the Internet. People say whatever they want and people believe it. And I think that's a threat. But there's no way to control it under the First Amendment. Correct?

[Roy Gutterman]

The First Amendment gives us a lot of protection, even protection to be wrong, even protection to be hateful. And that's part of the First Amendment. That's part of the marketplace of ideas that.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

But when you have no editor, no structure, because I came up, this is 50 years for me in journalism. I got out of Boston University 50 years ago January, and I've been working steadily ever since. I'm the last of a breed. I am the last one standing. And I came up in a structure and there were standards and stuff like that. Now there's no standards on the Internet. So my question to you is, do the younger people that you see every day, do they have the background, historically, information, frame of reference to know what's true and what isn't true?

[Roy Gutterman]

Yes and no. I mean, today's college student is well informed with the information that they want to gather. They do ask questions. But, you know, every generation says the generation behind them doesn't know what they're talking about. So, you know, there's that sort of generational bias. But I think contemporary students nowadays are discriminating and do ask the questions. From a professional journalistic standpoint, they understand the infrastructure of a news operation. Unfortunately, the infrastructure to the news operation isn't the same that it was even when I was in. In the business. I got started as a newspaper reporter more than a few decades ago. And I remember every story I wrote passed through several editors, and every editor had their own question. And I'd field that question at 9 or 10 at night and. And hit.

[Dr. Seth Wright]

Yeah, I'm a little. I'm a little bit worried about the collapse of the public school system, doesn't teach civics and history anymore so that the J students, you know, when you say, hey, you know, Trump is appeasing Putin, everybody goes, yeah, that's right. Well, FDR did the same thing at Yalta. And I go, what?

[Roy Gutterman]

Where's Yalta?

[Dr. Seth Wright]

What? That is worrisome. Professor, we really appreciate your time today. Thank you very much for helping us out.

[Bill O'Reilly]

Thank you for listening to the no Spin News Weekend Edition. To watch the full episodes of the no spin news, visit billoriley.com and sign up to become a premium or concierge member. That's billoriley.com Sign up and start watching today.