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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Bill O'Reilly here. Welcome to another we'll do it live, extended interview. And I am very pleased to have a contemporary of mine with us. His name is Steve Croft. You know him 30 years at 60 Minutes. 30 years. The man survived at CBS. I survived about eight months at CBS. He's 30 years. Anyway, let's begin with older folks, Americans, and they watch CBS now, and it's not anywhere near what it was. What the deuce happened?
- [00:50]
B
Algorithms? That's my short answer. I mean, technology, the fact that everything has gotten more complicated, much more complicated. The fact that it started with cable TV and it started eroding the audience of the three major networks, and it just got down to a point where I think the people that own the networks decided to write it off, that it was not that important to them anymore, even though it still produces a huge amount of money, but that the future was someplace else. But, you know, the budgets dwindled and people had to do with what they got.
- [01:41]
A
But it's also about performance. So Mike Wallace, before he died, I became fairly good friends with him. He liked the factory. He liked my whatever you want to describe me as. He was ornery like me and kind of identified with it. But you had Hewitt and you had Safer and you had Wallace, and you had all of these pros yourself, really knew what they were doing.
- [02:09]
B
Yeah.
- [02:10]
A
And now, I'm sorry, Tony Dokopil, Is that his name? He looks like a nice guy, but he wasn't at Chernobyl like you. And so it's not. It's like a sports team that once had all these superstars and now they're in eighth place.
- [02:33]
B
Yeah. It's the one thing that all the people that you mentioned, Ed Bradley and Leslie, we all had either we had successful careers at CBS News before we got to 60 minutes, and we had all been either overseas or in Washington covering the White House or one of those places. And there was a level of experience that doesn't really still exist. I mean, those positions are occupied, but everything has changed. And I can remember when I told Jeff Fager that I was going to leave or that I was going to retire. And he says, well, you know, what are we going to do? And I says, well, you know, go out and find somebody who knows how to write and is a good reporter. And he said, they aren't out there.
- [03:33]
A
It's true. There's no minor leagues. Yeah.
- [03:38]
B
I mean, we stations used to be great.
- [03:40]
A
Both of us came up the hard way.
- [03:42]
B
Yeah.
- [03:45]
A
What fascinated me about, because I know the personnel at 60 minutes, the tough boys over there, Hewitt and those guys, I'd say there were savages, Many savages.
- [03:59]
B
Savages. I have to tell you a story that when I first looked like I might go to 60 minutes, this is when I actually went to West 57th and Dan Rather called me in because I had been working for Dan show for like a long time. And he said, I think you're going to end up at 60 minutes. And he said, let me tell you, there's some big cats over there. Take one swat with the Paul.
- [04:24]
A
But he was one of the biggest cats. It's my theory.
- [04:27]
B
And you're going to be limping for six months.
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A
And it's true.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I mean, there was no civility at 60 minutes.
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B
It was like, you're an idiot if there was civility. You better check your wallet.
- [04:40]
A
Right, right. It was hand to hand combat to get your stuff on air without it being edited. I think that rather turn CBS to the left. Not in a way that was immediately noticeable because Cronkite played it down the middle pretty much. Would you agree with that? Yeah. Okay. But rather tilted it to the left. I can back it up. But this is about you more than me. And then since that time, because CBS was the leader, all right, the news leader on television, they've all gone fairly left. Would I be wrong?
- [05:20]
B
I don't think you're probably wrong in terms of perception, in terms of reality. I don't know. Some of it has to do. I've always thought with geography and the fact that so many people in the media were from. And the people running the news organizations
- [05:41]
A
were mostly east coast people, Manhattan people, D.C. people.
- [05:45]
B
Yeah. Ivy League people. And that there was a built in. A built in bias as opposed to like a political bias. You know, people always used to talk to me about 60 Minutes and say, oh, it's so liberal. You know, I never really thought of it as being liberal in part because Don and Mike Wallace were both Republicans.
- [06:13]
A
Right. They didn't play that game.
- [06:16]
B
They didn't play that game. They rather did, but I think Dan did. Dan is also, you know, he's from Texas. He pulled himself up by his bootstraps and I think was more. I mean, he gave Nixon really a hard time. I thought the Dan's career, that was the question at the luncheon was he
- [06:43]
A
did not like Nixon and vice versa.
- [06:45]
B
He. Yeah, and I think some of that stuck. But I used to tell people, look, there's no operation in broadcasting that has done more stories that should have pleased the conservatives than 60 Minutes because we reported on fraud and the waste in Washington and all of that stuff when not everybody was doing that. And that's a conservative issue, not a liberal issue.
- [07:16]
A
When you watch 60 Minutes today, surely you know, it wasn't, it isn't what it used to be. You have to know that.
- [07:25]
B
Yeah. I don't know what is.
- [07:27]
A
Well, that's true to a certain extent. But let's take Scott Pelley, for example. Excellent reporter, I would say.
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B
Excellent.
- [07:38]
A
Hates Trump dripping. Blood dripping. Okay. As Trump once said. Okay. Blood dripping. Hates him. Leslie Stahl, appalled by him. Isn't it our obligation to pull that back?
- [07:58]
B
I think some of it, Bill, is perception.
- [08:00]
A
Oh, come on.
- [08:01]
B
I do. I do. I think some of it is perception. I think that Leslie can be tough on anybody. And I think that Scott, the same way. Here's my theory about conservatives, what I just mentioned, with all the stuff about fraud and, like scandals and crooks and all of that stuff, I think the conservatives tend to look at it like, well, there's a small occasion of the truth when in fact it is playing it more down the middle. But I don't think the conservatives necessarily like the middle. I think they want people to be on their side.
- [08:45]
A
Both sides do, though.
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B
Yeah. No, I buy that.
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A
Listen, that's why cable news succeeds, because they preach to the choir.
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B
Yeah.
- [08:52]
A
I mean, they just tell people what they want to hear. You know, that everybody knows that. And that's absolutely hurt the repertorial business. I'll talk a little bit about you. I did not know this and I should have known it. You're in Vietnam.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So you're over in Vietnam and you win a Bronze Star. You're awarded a Bronze Star.
- [09:12]
B
Two, but not for combat. One was from service.
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A
It doesn't matter what it was.
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B
Well, you don't get a Bronze Star unless you're involved in, you know, combat theater. One for service and one for meritorious achievement.
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A
Tell me about Vietnam.
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B
Took up five years of my life. I had, you know, I'm counting the two and a half years I was in the service and the two years before when I was worried about what I was going to do because that was in 1968. I got drafted and I got drafted and you went. And I went. It's an interesting story because I didn't think I really had any choice. My parents were. Would never have tolerated me going to Canada and they would never have tolerated me going to jail. So the only thing I had to. My only choice was enlisted or I
- [10:13]
A
Mean, you came from a traditional family, and was Vietnam worth it in any way?
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B
For me, just in general.
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A
I mean, you were a reporter there. You were writing for Stars and Stripes or whatever it may be. You were observing what was happening. Is there anything worthy about that?
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B
Only the learning experience.
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A
So the actual war itself, the way it was conducted, the draft and all of that was a negative for America.
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B
It was a negative for America. But I do think that it was instructive, because I think. I think that McNamara, defense secretary.
- [11:02]
A
Yeah.
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B
Certainly realized, and LBJ certainly realized, and that you can't just send American boys off to die without having the country behind you. And I think we're revisiting some of that stuff now in Iran.
- [11:22]
A
Right. But it's a little bit different because of the urgency on the nuke front. Whether you believe it or not, I happen to believe it. I have a fairly good pipeline into what's happening, but I know millions of Americans don't want to believe it. They hate Trump and they think Trump's evil and he's going to do evil things. Once you get to that point, then rationality disappears. And the reason I asked you about Vietnam was I went over after the war, but I never knew whether we were noble over there or not. We being the United States, were we noble trying to save these people from communism?
- [12:02]
B
I think we were noble only, and I use as proof, because I've been back, and they have much more respect for the Americans than they ever had for the French.
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A
Yeah. It's money, though, now.
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B
I think it was a little bit more. I think that the French were, you know, they were the colonial power, and that had been going on for really, a long time. But I think that. I think that particularly the Japanese or the Vietnamese military people, Jap and those guys had a tremendous amount of respect for.
- [12:37]
A
Well, we fought Americans, sure. Sure.
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B
We were worthy enemies.
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A
But it goes down into history as a deficit on America's sheep. There's no doubt about it. Tore society apart. And I think that we are divided now in this country as we were divided in Vietnam. I don't see a lot of difference then.
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B
No, I don't either.
- [13:03]
A
Is about 50. 50. Yeah. And, you know, we're in turbulent times here.
- [13:09]
B
Yeah, I would say that, you know, what you said about. I think that Trump's problems are deeper than Iran and the war. And I think that, you know, a lot of it has to do with the fact that he thinks he can do anything he wants.
- [13:32]
A
So if you were covering President Trump, you would be skeptical of him?
- [13:38]
B
Well, I would be. I'm trying to be skeptical of everybody.
- [13:42]
A
Would you be fair to him?
- [13:48]
B
You know, fairness is a strange word. I think my big problem with Trump, it feels to me. And this is. This is 60 Minutes in CBS. I kind of feel like we're in federal receivership and that.
- [14:06]
A
Well, he's a populist. He's a strong man.
- [14:08]
B
Yeah. And. Exactly. And the trustees of this receivership are Trump, Ellison and Barry Weiss. And they have said quite openly that they think that they need to adjust.
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A
Yeah. They need to be fairer to him. More fair.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I agree with that because as we talked about with Pelia, and I know what I'm doing, so do you. I can see when Leslie Stahl is interviewing Chompany and she says to him, well, there's no evidence of Russian collusion, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm going, whoa, that's not how you pose that question. Yeah, it's not. And you know better than anybody, because you interviewed Obama 17 times. Yeah, 17 times.
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B
Yeah, something like that.
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A
Why did he like you?
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B
I think he liked me for. I'm not so sure it was personal. I think he liked the fact that 60 Minutes could deliver almost 20 million people. No doubt about it. Every time he came.
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A
And he also shows you he could
- [15:17]
B
have had Mike, I think, because I did the first story on him. I mean, I was the one that covered him during the first campaign.
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A
I think he trust camp. Oh, he does.
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B
I think he did trust me. And I think he knew that I was not gonna. I was not gonna, like, cheap shot him. Cheap shot him.
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A
Okay. And you didn't cheap shot him.
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B
And I didn't.
- [15:37]
A
Now, in order not to cheap shot him, you gotta be a little light on him sometimes. I remember those interviews, and sometimes I could see. I said, oh, Croft wants to ask this, but he doesn't want to derail the whole thing. Am I wrong?
- [15:52]
B
I think they're probably wrong in the sense that we did some. There was never an interview that we did with him that we did not ask him about all of the.
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A
But you let him answer rather than
- [16:08]
B
challenge, because Obama was an interesting person. I'd never really seen a politician like him. In all the years that I interviewed him, he never once said, stop, I need to talk to my aides to find out the answer.
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A
No, he go, I interview him three times.
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B
He was in command.
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A
But with me, I challenged him. Yeah, okay. And.
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B
Well, I challenged him, too. You apparently haven't seen the last couple of interviews. I did with him.
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A
And they got tougher as you went along.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay. Because he got in more trouble as you went along.
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B
To be fair, the situation was really long honeymoon. Yeah.
- [16:54]
A
And then he was, keep your doctor if you want your doctor. And all of a sudden, all hell broke loose. But.
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B
But for the first four years of that presidency, the issue was the financial situation. You know, we had just pretty much
- [17:12]
A
over the cliff with Bush.
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B
Over the clip with Bush. And the worst of it. Some of the worst of it was when he was running, when he was President elect. And I think that some of those things, the, you know, all of the bailout of the banks and everything.
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A
Unlike Trump, Obama was a realist and he was a consensus seeker. Would I be correct there? Yeah.
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B
I don't think nearly as liberal as people point him out.
- [17:39]
A
No, I agree with that. I agree with that. But he was stubborn.
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B
Yes.
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A
Okay. Very stubborn. And when I would interview him, I say to Mr. President, two of them are live. Super bowl interview is live. And the presidential interview is the hardest interview you're ever going to do, I think. Do you agree? Yeah. Because you have to respect the office, even if you don't like the guy.
- [18:01]
B
That was actually my take on doing the job. I remember the Brokaw interviews and the Cronkite interviews of presidents. They were very respectful. Someplace along the line in the last five or six or 10 years, probably it began like it was sort of. Get the guest.
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A
Well, it began with Iraq. That's where it began.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay. When Iraq went south, then the hounds of hell and the media were unleashed.
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B
Right?
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A
Okay. Cheney's this. He's a Halliburton, blah, blah, blah. That's where it really began. Modern times. I'll tell you an interesting story about Obama. When I had to do the interview live, I had 17 minutes because the Fox Sports people didn't want any of this. They wanted to interview some guy that was thanking the Lord that he scored five touchdowns. That's all Fox wanted.
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B
Right.
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A
Okay. They didn't want any discourse that was going to veer away from. My teammates are the best, and I love them. Okay. That's what they wanted. They hated me anyway. So I go to Mr. President, look, we got 17 minutes. I got a lot of questions for you here. You can do 17 minutes on my socks.
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B
Okay?
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A
17 minutes. He could look at my socks and speak for 17 minutes about them.
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B
Yes.
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A
I said, when I raise my finger, my crooked finger from playing ice hockey like this, that means I want to get in. I have a question. All right. You have two decisions to make. You can keep going, and then I'm going to interrupt you. Okay. You know me, or you can rap it.
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B
Yeah, okay.
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A
And he was totally cooperative. Yeah, he rapped it. And then I got in the questions that I wanted. I think I amused him. You. He took seriously me. It was like this cat and a little ball that he was whacking around.
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B
He had. You know, I can't let this pass. I mean, you've been talking about Dan Rather in the liberal slant of Democratic, liberal slant of cbs. What about Fox? You think Fox is maybe a little conservative?
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A
It's interesting. When you ask about Fox, you're asking me who wasn't really a part of that machine. My numbers were so staggering. I made so much money for them, they didn't say word of me. Unlike you, I had a fight hand in hand with Hewitt and all these other pinheads. They didn't say one Blanken word to me. It was, hey, Bill, how you doing? Like some lunch? Okay? That was it. So I never, ever got involved with any of that. And then when I left that one constraint because, remember, I was at 8 prime time, all right? Disappeared. And it all fell into line because the profit margin was in speaking to one segment of the American people. And it remains to this day on all of the networks. Now, I mean, look at the View. Look at. Look at. ABC News runs the View, okay? And it makes its money by talking to liberal women. That's where it makes its money. So that's what they do. But with me, it was a totally unique experience because of the economic power that I brought in. Very fascinating. It's a good question you're asking. You're still on your game, Croft. You know, you're still on. Ask me.
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B
You know, I think that, you know, I think Ailes was a genius. No doubt Ailes figured out that you could be dominant with a rating of five.
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A
Well, he.
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B
And there was no. No conservative voices at all.
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A
He was out there. He was similar to Hewitt.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay. He knew what was good on television. He knew it was good. Now, these people have no blanket idea. Who's that? I don't know who the anger is for cb who is now Tiffany. Who. Why? They don't know. They don't know who's good, who's bad. Now, you did one of the most fascinating interviews I've ever seen. Had a killer. The Clintons after the infidelity stuff. Yeah, tell me about that.
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B
Okay. It was during sort of the height of that. Of the. Well, there was a. Something Big happened a network. NBC picked up a story that was in the National Enquirer or the Star or one of them about Jennifer Flowers. And it was the first time that a tabloid story had ever crossed over to the networks. And I think it freaked out the Democrats. And I was, you know, I was just taking kind of a week off because we didn't have a game, you know, we didn't have a show because of the Super Bowl. We had the super bowl that year. So I went out and had lunch or a drink with Anne Rheingold, who was an old friend from CBS who had been working for Ron Brown at the Democratic Party. And she says, well, why don't you interview Clinton? And I said, this Sunday? And I said, well, the first thing is we don't have a show. Second of all, he's, you know, my understanding is he's going to go and do Nightline, you know, this week. And so I didn't pay too much attention to it. And then the Nightline thing, for one reason or another, I believe it was because if it was dragging on too long, tell me. I think that somebody was going to be executed. And I think that night, and I think that Clinton was in Arkansas, was nervous about doing it, so it slid. So I get a call on Thursday or Friday from Anne Ringold, said, you sure you don't want to do this? And I said, we don't have a show. And she said, well, now I started thinking. I said, let me call, you know. I said, are we sure you can get him? And I had a conversation with some people on the campaign, one of whom was Stephanopoulos. And I called up Hewitt, he's in L. A. And I said, can we, you know, we can get Clinton, you know. And he says, well, what are you going to talk about? I said, well, there's only one thing to talk about with Clinton, and that's Jennifer Flowers. And he said, okay, let me see what I could do. They were running a 48 hours after the super bowl, and Hewitt called up and got them to carve out like 10 minutes for us out of the 48 hour piece. And so that was it. I called, I can remember the call with Stephanopoulos and
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A
who was working for Clinton at.
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B
Yeah, he was a press guy. And, you know, I didn't know George at the time at all. And he said, well, here's the deal, you know, we can do 10 minutes, you know, but it's going to have to be after the. It's going to be after the game, not in the regular 60 minutes time slot. So he said, what game?
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A
Always at the top of his game.
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B
Right? So I said, the Super Bowl. He says, wait a minute. This is going to air after the Super Bowl. We're in.
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A
So he wanted it.
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B
He wanted it.
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A
And it was Hillary, too.
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B
And they called back and said, what do you. We'd like to have Hillary on. And I. First of all, Hillary had never been on television, really, but everybody knew that she was incredibly smart and was considered to be a real asset for his campaign. And so we said, sure, you know, bring her along. One of the biggest mistakes Gary Hart made when he got into the monkey business was that he didn't bring his wife on the show. And I think she went a long way towards inoculating the damage.
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A
Now, is that a tough interview for you to do because of the tawdry nature of the accusations?
- [26:26]
B
No, it's pretty straightforward. You know, it wasn't.
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A
And he denied everything.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And what did she do?
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B
You know, she stood up for him and she.
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A
Stand by your man, Tammy?
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B
Why not? She was really great. I mean, how do you say great? I mean, great in what her task was, was to save his.
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A
So they just. They just smoothed it all over, right?
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B
They didn't really smooth it all over because they didn't really know where we were going to go with this. And they were under the impression that we were going to ask them some questions about his campaign.
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A
Are you kidding? They thought that. But you as a journalist knew he had to rep in Arkansas. Of course you knew that.
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B
Yes.
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A
Did you bring that up? Say, hey, your rep is a little.
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B
We didn't have to. I didn't have to go to the reputation and the gossip we had, you know, the Jennifer Flowers. Right. She was out there saying this.
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A
After you did the interview, what was their reaction to Clinton's.
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B
Well, Hillary did not like it. And Hillary went on the air and said that Steve Groft was so nice when he was asking the questions. And then apparently he came back and asked all these questions, these mean questions, attacking you, attacking me, and attacking 60 minutes. And Don really went after her, and she shot up pretty quickly because it wasn't true. But it was a weird interview. You know, it was a weird interview. And I think that, you know, I. I kept trying to think, what's the first question I'm gonna ask him?
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A
I have a bunch of wise guy answers, but I'm not. I'm not gonna do it.
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B
And I said. I said, so tell me, who is Jennifer Flowers and how do you know Her.
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A
That was smart.
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B
Yeah. Because he was completely.
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A
Yeah. And you weren't being flummoxed. You weren't being accusatory. Now it's all about accusation. Now it's like you're a pinhead. You did this. Well, you know, that kind of thing.
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B
Yeah.
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A
When you completed the interview, did you have a better assessment of the two of them or a worse assessment?
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B
I didn't quite know what to think. You know, this was a time occurred at a time when he had been on the COVID of Newsweek that the week before the interview, of this interview and they had declared him the front runner for the nomination. Yeah.
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A
Right.
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B
And so. But nobody really knew very much about him. And you know, I know Clinton now much better than I did. I didn't know him at all when I did that interview. He's an impressive person.
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A
Very smart.
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B
Very smart.
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A
Yep. I sat between him and.
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B
Very likable.
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A
Him and Henry Kissinger at Yankee Stadium one time was unbelievable. But he's not a truthful man. No, he's not.
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B
Well, he's not truthful about certain things.
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A
You know, most presidents are like that. I think Obama might be an exception to it. Even though Obama made some pretty big mistakes with his rhetoric. They're going to say whatever puts them in a favorable light.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know that.
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B
Yeah. And with the Jennifer Flowers thing, he had to. If he was going to be in this, he had to lie. And he.
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A
But it was the arrogance because after that he goes to Lewinsky, doesn't even learn his lesson.
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B
Well, it actually, I can't remember exactly the timeline. The timeline. Whether it was Lewinsky or the other woman from Arkansas.
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A
Okay.
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B
But be that that was the one that was where he got in trouble. Yes.
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A
Okay.
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B
He admitted that he had lied.
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A
If you apologize doing that and your whole career wobbles, maybe you don't do it again. Not him. See, I know you're not a psychiatrist, but I.
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B
No, but I would point out the fact that I remember Izzy Stone once said the first thing you need to know when you go to Washington is that all politicians lie.
- [30:47]
A
And I don't think that. With the exception of Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln's a pretty honest guy. Washington, he'd lie to Martha, but he didn't do a lot of public policy. Financial stress is hitting an all time high. Millions of Americans are stretched thin with no extra money, no room to breathe. And this isn't just lower income households. Middle class families are also running out of options. If debt has been weighing on you, you are not alone and waiting usually Makes things worse. Interest grows. Minimum payments trap you. Nothing changes. You don't need another loan or to consider bankruptcy. You need a strategy. That's why I like Done with Debt. They build a smart personalized plan around you and understand what it takes to work toward the biggest reductions possible. Whether you owe $10,000 or much more, their goal is simple. Lower what you owe so you keep more of your paycheck. Start with a free consultation@donewithdebt.com donewithdebt.com you also show up in Chernobyl.
- [32:07]
B
Yeah.
- [32:07]
A
Fascinating.
- [32:09]
B
That was a good piece.
- [32:11]
A
Yeah. And people have forgotten about that. And that brings us back to Iran and the nukes. Chernobyl wipes out this whole area. Still to this day contaminated. And you had to then broach the Russian bureaucracy. They didn't want you reporting over there, did they?
- [32:33]
B
Well, it was the Soviet Union then and Chernobyl was in Ukraine. So I was dealing with the Soviet apparatchiks. Okay.
- [32:45]
A
Why would they let you even do that?
- [32:47]
B
They let a couple of print reporters in and that's when I saw the opening and then we pushed for it. I think that they thought that it would be a sense that they were being open as they could about it because they made some really big screw ups at the beginning. And I think that they wanted to demonstrate that they were doing everything they could to try.
- [33:10]
A
So this was a PR campaign.
- [33:14]
B
I never considered it part of a PR campaign because I thought that there was too much stuff that they were never going to be able to like turn to their advantage and there wasn't.
- [33:26]
A
Getting back to CBS 30 years. Did you make any friends over there? I mean real friends?
- [33:33]
B
A few.
- [33:35]
A
But it's not easy to make friends in the television news industry.
- [33:39]
B
No, it's not. And I'm being honest and goes back to what I said earlier. If people seem really friendly, you need to check your wallet. And the worst one is your buddy Mike.
- [33:50]
A
What is it that drives this kind of deviousness now? I've been doing this 50 years. I think I know the answer. But I think the audience wants to hear from you. It's rough. This in Hollywood are the roughest.
- [34:05]
B
Yeah.
- [34:06]
A
Why?
- [34:11]
B
Because everybody is so paranoid. I think they're all. Because everybody knows the environment and they think that somebody is behind them, you know, going to put a shiv in their back.
- [34:22]
A
Why? Just for fun or be. For competitive reasons.
- [34:25]
B
For competitive reasons.
- [34:27]
A
They want the story or they want the status.
- [34:29]
B
Jealousy or whatever. You know, I think that that's. That's part of it. You know, there's a lot of. Look, you must know this. I can remember when I was tapped to go to 60 Minutes. I thought this was fantastic. And I expected to. A lot of people would just come up and say, that's really great. I'm really happy for you, whatever the thing.
- [34:48]
A
Right.
- [34:49]
B
And then you realize after a while that not everybody was happy that I got this job.
- [34:53]
A
Right. There were other people, more competition.
- [34:56]
B
There were other people that wanted it. And so then you've all of a sudden made a bunch of enemies, and that's. It's just, you know, it's a snake pit.
- [35:09]
A
It is.
- [35:10]
B
It's a snake pit.
- [35:10]
A
Is it any way to live? If you had to do it again, would you do it again?
- [35:21]
B
I think that I. No, I probably wouldn't do it again.
- [35:25]
A
Really?
- [35:25]
B
Yeah. I hated it. I mean, I was. Look, the best job I ever had at cbs when I was a correspondent at the London bureau and got to see the world. That was the job I always wanted. 60 Minutes was really appealing, and I thought. I wasn't really sure I was ever going to get there. I didn't really seriously think about it. And then when I did, there's so many things that. First of all, the job is just 24 hours a day. I mean, you may get a couple hours of bad beepers going off. They had beepers going off, getting on jets, going here and there, the whole thing. Then coming back and spending, you know, three or four days writing the script and then going to the screenings and then getting on, starting it all over again. And, you know, it was exhilarating in the sense that the reason I loved the job was because of the stories that I could do and the fact that they liked good stories. The level you can't go into that job and not do. I was kind of at a disadvantage when I was the first person on that show that had not been an anchorman. Wasn't really well known. I'd been, you know, a lot on the evening news and was obviously. And I had been at West 57th, but I didn't have. I had to keep doing it. You know, I had. Doing what I had been doing. I couldn't just go in there and allow.
- [36:56]
A
Were you addicted to it? Do you get addicted to it like a drug? You had to do it?
- [37:00]
B
Yeah, probably.
- [37:01]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [37:01]
B
And you're willing because you get excited about the fact that you're still alive
- [37:06]
A
and would you do a good story. And people, you know, that people. Millions of people see it.
- [37:11]
B
Yeah.
- [37:12]
A
But at the same Time. You're dodging the shivs. Every time you go into things, somebody wants to kill you. And the only reason I survived at ABC and I prospered there was because of Peter Jennings. Protected me. Yeah, he protected me. They would have cut my throat in 45 seconds. Local hotshot. Oh, look at the local hotshot. Because I worked at Channel 2 here in New York as a local hotshot. Okay. As Bernie Goldberg once said. And Goldberg wrote a book, Bias.
- [37:41]
B
Yeah.
- [37:42]
A
You read it?
- [37:44]
B
No, I know Bernie really well, so I didn't have to. Okay. No, I read parts of it.
- [37:48]
A
Did you subscribe to what he was saying? That the CBS apparatus had moved so far left that it wasn't really covering the news the way it should? Did you subscribe to that?
- [37:59]
B
I don't think I did. I think I. Bernie is a pretty complicated person. And, you know, people create sort of a brand. And I think that Bernie's brand had always been a little bit on the conservative side. And I think that he liked the fact that he could be outspoken about it to offset pressure, you know, saying that it was all liberal.
- [38:25]
A
Right.
- [38:26]
B
And I think that.
- [38:27]
A
And he's a contrarian, Bernie.
- [38:29]
B
He is. And he took it a little bit too far going after Eric Engberg on a story that Edinburgh had. Did. I can't remember what it was. And they got him fired. Bernie was also pretty arrogant.
- [38:41]
A
Well, we all are.
- [38:43]
B
I have to tell you a story. Bernie, I think, really wanted to be in 60 minutes and thought he would be. And I really like Bernie. I admire him. I think he's one of the most talented people I've ever met.
- [38:57]
A
You around?
- [38:58]
B
Great journalist, but he had. They did 48 hours on crack street, and there was some guy. There was some guy wielding a baseball bat who was like, you know, the hero of the. Of the show. And the story goes that Don Hewitt ran into Bernie in the lunch room and said, I want to ask you a question. How do you know that guy was who he says he was? And Bernie blew him off and said, of course he was. Well, it turns out that he wasn't. And I think it certainly damaged him with. With Hewitt.
- [39:37]
A
Right.
- [39:38]
B
And. But, you know, he had people that he. You talk about. I mean, Andrew Hayward and him are really good friends. And Andrew Hayward protected Bernie, but Bernie was. He was different, and he was so good.
- [39:55]
A
Let's face it, the US Economy is under stress, national debt rising, trade war shaking the markets. And meanwhile, China is dumping the dollar and stockpiling gold. That's why I protected my savings with Physical gold and silver through the only dealer I trust, American Hartford Gold. And you can do this. Get precious metals delivered to your door or place in a tax Advantage Gold IRA. They'll even help you roll over your existing IRA or 401k, tax and penalty free. With billions in precious metals delivered, thousands of five star reviews and an A plus from the Better Business Bureau. You can trust American Hartford Gold as I do. Please call 866-501-5201 or text BILL to 65532. Again, that's 866-501-5201 or text BILL to 65532. Quick question. How do you normally get your medication? Because there is a better way. When you need something, it's always a hassle. You call a doctor, next appointment in. Days away, you sit in a waiting room full of sick people. Then you stand in line at the pharmacy. Sometimes they don't even have what you need. That system is slow, frustrating, outdated. But there's one pharmacy doing it a smarter way. All Family pharmacy. You go online, choose what you need, fill out a quick medical form, and a licensed doctor reviews your request and provides a prescription if it's appropriate. Then they ship it right to your door. Stock up on essentials like antibiotics, Ivermetkin and 300 other prescription medications. Please go to allfamilypharmacy.combill use code BILL10 in order to get 10% off your order. One quick story. First day I was hired at CBS 57th Street. You're familiar with it?
- [42:02]
B
Yes.
- [42:03]
A
I'm in the elevator, I'm six four. Guy walks in, he's five, five, okay. He looks up to me, he goes, you'll never make it, kid. Andy Rooney.
- [42:19]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [42:21]
A
Doesn't know him, never spoke to him. His first words to me were, you'll never make it, kid.
- [42:28]
B
Did he give you a reason?
- [42:29]
A
No, no reason. And he just kind of chortled. And I was going to be a wise guy, but I figured he's on 60 Minutes. Maybe I've already alienated half the building. Maybe I don't want.
- [42:42]
B
Well, there's a lot. I tell you, Bernie and Andy had some things in common.
- [42:47]
A
Right? It was a jungle over there. And same thing with abc. Last question for you. And then we're going to take a little break. And for our premium and concierge members, when you look back, you've done, I think, I mean, you got to be in the top 10 TV journalists of all time. I don't rank them, no, but you don't have to reply my opinion.
- [43:15]
B
Thank you.
- [43:15]
A
And, you know, I'm always right. I'm always right. Does that mean anything to you?
- [43:23]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's satisfaction. You know, you only have one life to live, and you have only one. You know, I got into this business and I got to the, you know, pretty much to the top ranks. And I was very proud of all the work that I did there.
- [43:39]
A
But you say you wouldn't have done it again if you had to go around.
- [43:44]
B
Well, I'm saved by the fact that it doesn't really exist anymore, that job, yin and yang. But there were great things. I got to go all over the world. I got to see, meet all these people. That's what I loved about the London bureau. I could go. That was also a killer job. But that's what I wanted when I decided I wanted to be a reporter. And it came in Vietnam when I saw some guys straggle in from one of the networks. I think it was cbs, it might have been abc. And, you know, they had long hair and they were wearing, you know, camouflage fatigues, and they looked really cool. And they weren't in the Army. And this is when I was with the 25th Infantry Division. And one of my jobs was to escort some of these people, which I did a few times. And I said, that's what I want to do. I wanted to be a foreign correspondent from that point on.
- [44:44]
A
Well, you certainly accomplished it, and we really appreciate you spending some time with us today.
- [44:50]
B
Okay, I'm sorry I don't have time to tell you. My first day at cbs, my elevator story.