← Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast
Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast
Dr. Scott Sherr: The Anti-Aging Hack Most People Miss
01:03:13
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- [00:00]
Dr. Scott Scher
Foreign.
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Amitai Eshel
Welcome to Biohacking Beauty, the podcast where we dive deep into the science of youthful skin and empower you with the latest strategies in biohacking and skincare. I'm your host, Amitai Eshel and as always, we are here to simplify your journey towards radiant youthful skin. This podcast is brought to you by.
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Anastasia Hochaeva
Yes, young Goose Yang Goose Skincare is.
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Amitai Eshel
A company I founded together with my lovely wife Anastasia Hochaeva, where we combine.
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Anastasia Hochaeva
Biohacking and skincare expertise to give you.
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Amitai Eshel
Powerful solutions for aging beautifully and skin optimization. Today we have a truly exciting guest coming to us for the second time, Dr. Scott Scher. He is a world renowned expert in hyperbaric oxygen therapy which has obviously incredible.
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Anastasia Hochaeva
Potential for skin rejuvenation and overall health.
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Amitai Eshel
Dr. Shi is also the co founder of Troscriptions, a company that's revolutionizing biohacking with their innovative products like methylene blue and immune boosting troches alongside products that are more calming and sleep inducing. In this episode we'll dive deep into how hyperbaric oxygen therapy can help with anti aging, how oxygenating your skin can.
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Anastasia Hochaeva
Promote a youthful glow, and how transcriptions.
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Amitai Eshel
Biohacking tools are changing the game not only for me as far as my day to day, but for skin health and also beyond.
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Anastasia Hochaeva
Whether you're looking to enhance your beauty.
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Amitai Eshel
Routine or optimize your overall well being, this episode is packed with insights you won't want to miss. So let's get started. Okay, the great and powerful Dr. Scott share is back on the Biohacking Beauty podcast.
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Dr. Scott Scher
It's been a minute, man. It's been a minute. I can't remember. It's been at least a couple years, right?
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Amitai Eshel
It's been, it's been a minute. But since we've spoken last, it's been about 120 minutes. So yeah, great to have you on, obviously.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah. So good joke. I had Amitay over here on the Smarter Harder podcast which is on our network. We recorded earlier today. So we're doing the double header. It's good.
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Amitai Eshel
Yes, exactly. And Scorpion, I'll give you a title. You are the most recommended podcast guest.
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Dr. Scott Scher
The most recommended? Really? Yes.
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Amitai Eshel
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean like you have been recommended at least like 10 times by other people where I'll be like, oh, blah, blah, the podcast. And we're talking about that. We talk a lot about, you know, things that are other than skin care but that would improve, you know, skin health at the end of the day, for example, you know, hyperbarics and everyone's like, oh, you know, who you should have on doctor. So, you know, it's good. It's. It's. It's good to give the listeners what they want, which is why you're on.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Well, it's appreciated. I. I have to say there's not many people that do what I do, especially when it comes to hyperbaric therapy. So. Yeah, there's very few other people that would guess be in the same, you know, know, hyperbaric therapy. Scout kind of goes together for a lot of people. That's okay. I've been doing it a long time.
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Amitai Eshel
Yeah. And I think it's coming full circle. I think your how is. How's the how's. Like Liam Neeson says in. In his movies, like, I'm a man with a very particular set of skills.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Right.
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Amitai Eshel
Like your very particular set of, like, I would say, entrepreneurial or interest topics kind of culminate to the kind of hype right now, which is around mitochondrial health and, and how the health of our mitochondria really is at the root of almost all aging processes. Right. Like, we went through an expansion and our contraction path of, Of. Of identifying the drivers of aging.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah. I mean, I think what I would like to. I guess what I say to kind of sum it up for people is like, I'm a conductor of all things health optimization. Right. So when it comes down to it, I. I'm a generalist that has lots of different interests. And then as a result of that, it's kind of taken me a lot of. A lot of down, like some really crazy and interesting rabbit holes with people, places and things along the way. I mean, meeting Dr. Ted Achicoso, a polymath genius, crazy guy in 2017 really did change, like, the trajectory for a lot of what I was doing when he came in and said, let's. Let's create this nonprofit based on the framework that I've developed in Manila in the Philippines over, you know, a decade or so of practice. It was kind of what I was looking, know, from like a, like a paradigm shift thing and also a framework shift for me because I got, you know, on the hyperbaric side, I got really tired of people not doing as well as I thought that they were going to do when they were in the chamber. I thought that you go into the chamber, everything was going to be like sunshine and rainbows, just like, you know, like your poop wouldn't stink or something. And so. But it does still stink, your poop.
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Amitai Eshel
And then one guy pooped inside the chamber, and we found Out.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah. It's still. It happens. Yeah. It's okay. We all have accidents. It's all right. You think it's going to be a fart and, you know, it happens. Right. I've heard people say, never touched a fart, but that, you know, that's interesting. Right. So. But. But, you know, for me, knowing when I first got into hyperbaric medicine, like a decade ago now, thinking that I could put everybody in the chamber, everybody would feel better, and realizing very quickly that, no, no, that wasn't the case at all. Like, the people needed to have, like, a lot more help a lot of times before they would go in and to see the benefits that we would hope that they would have seen initially. And this comes down to, like, my main thing is that it's not, you know, if getting in a chamber would be helpful. It's when. And the problem in the hyperbaric field in general is that, like, it's if you have, you know, if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you have skin, everything looks like a cream. I don't know. What. What's the. What's the skin analogy for you? I don't know. But. But I. So I got. I gravitated towards an integrative approach to hyperbaric medicine. And then I. In 2017, when we set up the nonprofit, the Health Optimization Medicine and practice nonprofit, things really shifted for me, you know, as far as my clinical practice, where now I had a foundation where I could work with people using this foundational framework that would allow them to do better in a hyperbaric chamber. But surprise, even if they didn't get into a hyperbaric chamber, they would still do better because they were optimized. And, you know, and a big piece of this, of course, was, you know, working on mitochondrial function. And that's. That's my. Actually a pretty big through line for me, as you kind of alluded to. Right. So hyperbaric therapy, what are we doing? We're, you know, optimizing energy production, amongst other things. But you have to be able to make energy. And where you make that is in the mitochondria. And then. Well, if you can't do that, well, you're gonna not go go. You're not gonna have the. The kinds of outcomes that you want. And so let's optimize mitochondrial function. And so how do we test that? You can use something called metabolomics, which is the study of how you can use various kinds of testing measures to look at what's happening in the environment, what's happening in your genes all together in real time using cellular energy metabolites and et cetera.
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Amitai Eshel
So anyway, metabolomics reminds me like guy sitting with you like in a discussion and you want, you want, he wants you to get to the bottom line. You're trying to philosophize like, well, you know, blah, blah, blah. And you know, mechanistically, if you think about it like that, you might think there's like, okay, but can you please get to the bottom line and tell me what's happening in real time? I think that's what metabolomics are. You know, they're, they're taking all of that, they're, they're at the bottom of the funnel, right? Like they're taking all of that conceptual, mechanistic type discussions around things that might help you, things that are going to make you feel better. Yes, no, whatever. And at the end of the day, this is, this is basically like a, like a, an eventual. That's a readout of how well your body functions, right?
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Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, that's a great way to say it. I think the, the end of the funnel, the begin in the sense that you have this gene environment interaction. The first real level that that's happening is in your metabolome. And so like you have your genes that can transcribe into proteins. It's like, so you have your genome, you have your transcriptome, you have your proteome and you have your metabolome, right? So it kind of comes from your genes down or out or whatever you want to say. And then your environment outside your body. That's where it's, it's obviously interacting with your genes, right? It's obviously interacting with what gets transcribed and not. But you can really see that in. And where we have the most roast brain robust data now is the metabolomic data. But you know, eventually we're going to have something called the narcisome, right. Which is like, you know, everything about every level of your biology, everything from your genes to your, to your proteins to your. Well, of course. Yeah, of course. And so you're going to be able to measure all of these things together and then create these sort of digital AI twin avatars of you that give you risks of things like diseases down the line, but also like, what are you supposed to do right now to help optimize your health? What we have in clinically now is metabolomics. To be able to do a lot of that though.
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Amitai Eshel
Yeah. You know, it's funny because. So if you ask chatgpt which I assume you ask chatgpt things pretty often if you ask them.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah.
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Amitai Eshel
What is the future of skincare? Which I'm sure you've asked. ChatGPT. ChatGPT will tell you the vape. First of all, it's gonna tell you peptide and hyaluronic acid because it is, it's, it's, it's drinking the Kool Aid of, you know, the Internet, but it's also going to tell you precision, like a personalized skin care. And that actually doesn't exist, personalized skin care. The reason it doesn't exist is because the FDA would not allow you to create a new formula out of scratch and to provide it to a patient without even doing incubation, without making sure it is viable. It doesn't, you know, grow bacteria and it doesn't, you know, whatever that is, you're going to have to have like 40 weeks of testing before you could, you could send it to that patient.
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Dr. Scott Scher
So it doesn't get regulated the same way as a supplement would. Right. Because anybody can make any supplement anytime and then just say here. Right, because there's no FDA regulation when it comes to supplementation at least. But you're saying with, with skin products.
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Amitai Eshel
It'S different than interesting. Yeah, I never thought about the fact that it, there's a stark difference between that and a supplement. But interesting thing, I think supplements are even easier to just do. Like for example, there is a, there is a supplement that just got like, you know, basically it was Joe Rogan and, and Kevin James talked about it supplement on Joe Rogan's podcast. It became like, became like extremely popular. It's called something gold and it was like an anti inflammatory, like a natural anti inflammatory. And then the FDA was like, wow, that's becoming popular. Let's see what's going on there. And it was basically like, like just like incense. They just, they just, yeah, you know, the label said like, you know, Sheilajit and you know, probably like, I don't know, thoughts and prayers. I don't know what it says there, but it was just like legit, like Tylenol, basically.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, I got it. Yeah. And that's a challenge in the supplement world for sure.
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Amitai Eshel
Yeah. Skincare, you would have a much harder time doing that. You would also, even if you did do that, you would have, it would be impossible as far as the FDA's budget to infer quantities, which in skincare are, I mean, are everything. I think ph and quantities probably, or concentrations are probably the two things that would make two identical Products like completely different.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Makes sense. Makes sense. So you can take somebody's like skin health and then create something specifically from that without having like lots of testing. It sounds like to be able to prove that it worked or something.
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Amitai Eshel
Yeah, but what you could do, and obviously you know that that's what we're doing, we're not out with it yet because actually it needs to be FDA registered is a metabolomics test specifically for the skin. And then we could say, hey, your avatar fits this profile of you would enjoy this, this product formulation. Fill in the blank. Right. So this is really precision or like personalized skincare. Is skincare that exists, that the regimen is personalized to you rather than. Yes. And I think ChatGPT doesn't know it yet.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Well, it sounds like it was on the right track with one of them. Right. With precision skincare. Right. But the idea is that it's bigger than just looking at somebody's skin and seeing what they need. It's like what's happening underneath the hood. And then you're using metabolomy, metabolomic testing as well as a way to be able to create that, which is, you know, what we do at the nonprofit. Right. So we're really doing the framework, the education is teaching people how to understand metabolomics and then how to use metabolomics to personalize diet, lifestyle behaviors and of course supplementation. Right. Because you know what I need and what you need may be very, very different and your genetics may tell you that you need, you know, you have a methylation problem or something. But it may be very different from an expression perspective for you than it is for me. And you don't know that unless you're looking at, you know, the real time metrics overall.
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Amitai Eshel
So you know, your genome is, is probability. Right. Like you. There is a company, a great company by the way, we appreciate that skincare company. It is called Biologique Recharge. I think it's a symbol for, for me as a, as a entrepreneur in the skincare space, it is the symbol of the, the epitome of 20 year old skincare company, like in a good way. And one of the things that they did, which is an incredible marketing trick is that they certify in air quotes an esthetician to read your, the genetic testing that they do for you. And basically she reads off a page of products are recommended there. But she's certified, of course it has to be certified. She has something, obviously something to hang on the wall, which is incredible. I mean, but the thing Is, is that what's incredible about it? First of all, they are not. So they want to kind of continue with the line, but also that they are saying, hey, you need this product because you have a higher probability of, you know, than normal or whatever that is. And unfortunately, it is the worst way to recommend skincare I've ever heard about because it doesn't account even to, like speaking. It doesn't even account to the fact that you're a boy or a girl. And as we just discussed on your podcast, like, you have different collagen density as you grow older, whether you're a boy or you'll just, you respond to a different stimulus differently. So, like, it doesn't account to, by the way, if the person does like HRT or not, for example, which would be very different anyway. It doesn't account to many, many things that the diet, the environment. It is, it is pure speculation. So I, I think, I wonder if metabol metabolomics would get its fair shake or how long it's going to take before it becomes the new DNA. Sexy. It's very hard to replace it with an unsexy word like metabolomics.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, it's difficult to say. Difficult word to say. People have a hard time and you know, it's one of those things where, like there was an article written in 2012 or 2013 that called metabolomics the stethoscope of the 21st century. So they were looking at it from a disease marker perspective. They weren't looking at from like a health perspective because that's, you know, that's what the system is doing. Right. It's looking at trying to look for diseases rather to keep people healthy. And that's perspective shift that we do at, you know, at home Hope. But this has been around a long time now. But as you know from your experience, I'm sure, and certainly I know this as clinical practitioner, it takes at least 20 years for something to go from the research where it's robust research to actual clinical practice. 20 years. And so is everybody like, oh, AI is going to make that better? I'm not convinced that it's going to do anything because it still takes that long for a new generation to, of doctors to start prescribing things. Because what doctors do is that they learn something in medical school and that is what they do for the majority of them. And so it means that, you know, they do extra reading and CME and all that kind of crap. Yeah, a little bit. But for the most part, like 95% of what they did in medical school, for most of them is what they're going to do throughout their, almost their entire career, unless it's like a, like a sea change event where something is like extremely just brought into, into the fray or taken out of the fray or whatever it might be. So, I mean, I have a lot of confidence that metabolomics is going to continue to get more popular. I think that it's more challenging for providers to learn. And that's what we were trying to do at the nonprofit is give people a framework to use metabolomics in clinical practice, learn it in real time, see how they can implement it. Because, you know, I learned a lot of the medical students, like medical docs like me, like, we learned about a lot of this stuff in medical school. We just didn't learn if there was anything you could do about the things that you were memorizing. Right. So I learned about the Krebs cycle. I learned about all the antioxidants, but I didn't know you can measure all those things. I just knew that there was B12 and a folate. I didn't know there was anything else. I didn't know there was anything like NAD or, you know, I mean, I guess I learned about nad. Of course I learned about nad, but I didn't learn about, you know, can you measure it or can you do anything about it, or is this something you should do something about it or whatever it might be. Right, so it's the clinical practice. I think medicine is changing a little bit too here because, like, things have gotten like, so super specialized. Like, just like you said, like, things like, you know, went real wide with, with, with longevity, mitochondrial health now kind of back in. Like, I think that in the other respect, it's, it's kind of like things kind of got really getting really narrow in clinical medicine. And I do think that there's like a, there's a push to go further wide now a little bit. And, you know, and AI might help with that a little bit as well. I have noticed that a little bit, like, I still work, you know, just like, dabble in conventional medicine. And like, I can see it a little bit there where the conventional system is a little bit different than it was pre chatgpt. Interestingly enough, like, there's something there. I mean, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon because again, it's like as slow as, you know, molasses. But, but the key is that can we create a new system that is parallel to that? Yes, that keeps people healthy and. Or at least focuses on the health of the system. And that's what. That's what home hope is all about. And, like, that's the system I think we can create, which is like, yes, you need a conventional medicine system. You need acute care. Like, it's fantastic. You go get another freaking Jiu jitsu injury, you can go to the hospital again, right? And, you know, you can say hi to the ER doctors. Hey, I'm back. Sorry, you know, I broke another rib.
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Amitai Eshel
Or you might, you know, might. Might not. Not recognize me because my eyebrow is next to my chin. But that is me from the last time where I.
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Dr. Scott Scher
You. I'm sure you're like, on the first name basis, right? So. But it's good to have, like, that system. Like, we need, like, I worked in a trauma center in Baltimore when I was in medical school. Like, shitty. It goes down, right? Like, you get shot by, like, with a gun, like, stab. Like, you should go to the hospital, right?
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Amitai Eshel
Like, you should go out of Baltimore also.
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Dr. Scott Scher
But that's another story. Like, it. It was a good place to train, let's. Let's just say. Yeah.
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Amitai Eshel
So let me ask you a question. Going back to, like we said, about, you know, you know, going wide, going back, more narrow. I wonder how your view on mitochondria has changed throughout the years. Obviously, medical school, et cetera. But, you know, you've been a mitochondrial optimizer so long. I wonder how that changed.
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Dr. Scott Scher
That's a really good question. I think that I was alluding to this earlier where, you know, in. In medical school, you learn that you have a mitochondria. You learn in, like, seventh grade, you also have mitochondria, right? Seventh grade, you learn. So it's like a kind of good evolution, right? So, like, in seventh or eighth grade, my kids. Yeah, in seventh grade. So my. My daughter, who's in eighth grade, learned about the mitochondria last year. So you learn, like, you have a cell, right? And you learn that, like, there's all these organelles in the cell. There's a nucleus, the cytoplasm. And they show you one picture of a mitochondria, right? They said there's a mitochondria in your cell. That's all you know. You're like, oh, it makes energy. That says the powerhouse of the cell. Oh, that's great. Right? And then that's all I learned until medical school, right? And then medical school, yeah. Learned that there was mitochondria in more than one mitochondria. Per cell. In a lot of cells. There's one type of cell, human cell, that does not have mitochondria. Do you know which one it is?
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Amitai Eshel
Yeah, sperm.
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Dr. Scott Scher
No, they have tons of mitochondria, man.
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Amitai Eshel
Oh, which one?
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Dr. Scott Scher
It is your red blood cells. Your red blood cells don't have.
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Amitai Eshel
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, yeah. So you're actually. Your sperm.
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Amitai Eshel
I was thinking about the. I was thinking. What was I. What does sperm not have? It doesn't have. In interviews. Yeah, go ahead.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, it doesn't have. It doesn't have other organelles. I forget which ones. But it has tons of mitochondria and it needs to, you know, swim for a while. But the. And the ovaries and the testicles of the sperm have the most mitochondria per cells. Yeah. And the. The. The one cell that does not have mitochondria is your red blood cell. Because your red blood cell lost the mitochondria so that it had more room to. To carry oxygen. So. So in medical school, I learned that we had more than one per cell and that I learned a little bit. I learned all the, like, the. The intermediates of. Of what was required to make energy. Excuse me. You learned about the electron transport chain. You learned about all this shit, but you don't really, like, understand it, Right? Just like in medical school, you just, like, learn shit to. To forget shit so you can learn more shit and forget shit as fast as possible. Like, that's the cycle. I mean, to give you an example is I. I remember studying for one of my tests. I think it was my anatomy test or something. And after my test, I went to go get money from the atm when you still did that. And I couldn't remember my passcode to get my money. And it was just gone. It was gone. I. And I. And I. To this day, I had to get my passport change. I. You know, I had no idea.
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Amitai Eshel
And so it's funny because most people go to medical school in order to get more money. So that was.
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Dr. Scott Scher
I was having a hard time remembering my past. Yeah. So this is when we go, like, give the atm, you have to put in your passcode and all that kind of. So that's what medical school is about. So I didn't really start learning about, you know, mitochondria itself until I went into the hyperbaric world, right into the hyperbaric medicine. And then I realized that something was going on. Initially, I'm like, okay, well, we're making more energy, so, like, getting more oxygen in the system, so we're making more energy. Right? But of course, like, it wasn't until years later when I realized, well, why aren't people doing well when they go into the chamber and like, oh, it's because their mitochondria aren't working and then I have to do something about it. And so it really wasn't until, like, you know, five or six years ago when I was like, oh, like, something's maybe a little bit longer than that, but now. But like, then I was like, oh, this is. Something else is going on here. I really need to be focused on these things. And then, you know, learning from Ted and understanding the framework of using metabolomics, that just like, blew my mind as far as, like, what mitochondria were doing, how they were operating. And. And I was also learning from, you know, from people like, in the oncologic space like that, you know, people like Dr. Naysha winners and others that do integrative oncology and like, the. The sort of metabolic approach to cancer and how the mitochondria were involved there. So that was all happening, you know, within the sort of the times of me, like in the mid-20 teens, I guess. And so, yeah, I mean, I. I've. I've come a long way, you know, I would say as far as, like, even if six or seven years ago, I probably couldn't do the whole electron transport chain for you. Um, and then. And now, like, when we're talking about things like methylene blue and with our, you know, with transcriptions and the. And our, you know, our product line and how we're sort of working on mitochondrial function in such a dramatic way, especially using methylene blue. It's like, it's just even come more as a prominent thing that I think of on a regular basis. It's like, well, what are we people? I mean, especially when you, when you think of the, like the statistics where, like, 94% of the US population has metabolic dysfunction, which is basically correlated to. To mitochondrial dysfunction. So like, only 6% of the United States population has optimized mitochondria. Right. That means like, 94% of people have some element of. Where the mitochondria aren't working very well.
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Amitai Eshel
So is it like. Is it like 6% of the general population? Because that would mean basically only kids or is that of. Of. Of adults?
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Dr. Scott Scher
I think it's us adults. I think it's us adults.
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Amitai Eshel
Okay.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Um, but that's a good question. Right? I thought about that too. So a lot of people have screwed up Mitochondria, Right. They have it because, number one is insulin resistance, which is happening more in children, as you know. So if you're insulin resistant, your mitochondria, I'm very happy. You know, number two, if. If you're taking medications that disrupt mitochondrial function, the most common one that people take actually is metformin. So metformin is a. It destroys complex one of the mitochondria. The idea there is it helps you make new mitochondria that are better. I think the jury's still out from a longevity perspective. If you don't have diabetes, yeah. Then there's toxins in the environment, there's cosmetics, there's skincare products. Not yours. There's. There's other things. There's infections. Infections that destroy mitochondria. So your. Your. Your COVID patients, your long Covid long haulers, chronic. You know, so many people with these chronic infections have screwed up mitochondria. And so in the end, as you said, it's like everything kind of comes back down to, like, if your mitochondria don't work, you don't feel good. Like, if, if. Because you have so many, like in, like. So we talked about fertility wise, like ovary, sperm. So fertility rates tanking right now. Where else do you have symptoms of mitochondrial dysfunction? Your brain has many, many mitochondria. So you have brain fog, concentration problems, you have, you know, fatigue, et cetera. You have liver issues because livers have. Has tons of mitochondria. So you have detox issues, cardiac issues as well. Cardiac. Your. Your.
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Amitai Eshel
Does it affect also like Dafldy and Nash or. Or specifically like.
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Dr. Scott Scher
Well, so, you know, NAFLD and Nash are a little bit different, right? So these are usually related to insulin resistance and causing inflammation in the actual. And. But this is all related to mitochondrial dysfunction too, right? Because what happens with mitochondrial dysfunction is that you get more inflammation in the system and that's gonna cause reaction, and you're gonna have, you know, NAFLD or Nash as a result of that, amongst other reasons. But, I mean, that's one of the main ways too, then.
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Amitai Eshel
Yeah. And probably, you know, cardiovascular issues as well, and all the good stuff.
- [25:00]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, man. I mean, it's. I mean, so your mitochondria are kind of a big deal, right? But the thing is, you have to. You have to address them. You have to. You have to try to help help them, but you also have to try to get to understanding, you know, the why, if you can. It's like, why aren't they working for patients. But, you know, there are some shortcuts, right? So one of the shortcuts I use a lot is methylene blue, as you know, because it's a shortcut in the sense that it's going to compensate for mitochondrial dysfunction. So you can use very low doses of it to start compensating for that very quickly, which can be dramatically helpful for patients and even when they're really, really sick, because, like, oftentimes when people are super sick, like, it's really difficult to do anything because anything you give them kind of like throws them, even just. It's hard for them to tolerate. So you get. But, like, small doses of methylene blue can go a long way to helping support mitochondrial function and then give you the capacity to start doing more with them, to help them heal and get better and work on that mitochondria over time. I mean, the thing is, like, it takes a long time for people to feel better, right? It doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't happen overnight. Health optimization medicine, the framework is robust, but it takes six to 12 months, maybe longer, depending on where people are starting with starting. Starting at. To start feeling better. So what can you do immediately? You need to start doing things that are gonna work on, you know, mitochondrial dysfunction immediately so that people start feeling better. So, yeah, that's where methylene boot comes in. That's where so many different things come in to help regulate, but, you know, balancing the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system, you know, et cetera.
- [26:21]
Amitai Eshel
I have a lot of questions around methylene blue, but I think I just want to cover first, like, the. You know, we've. We've spoken about hyperbaric oxygen therapy with you, with.
- [26:30]
Dr. Scott Scher
Right.
- [26:31]
Amitai Eshel
With Jason Sonners, with Dr. Deep Sea, the great and powerful Dr. Deep Sea.
- [26:37]
Dr. Scott Scher
Don't know who that is. Who's that?
- [26:38]
Amitai Eshel
Dr. Deep Sea. You know who that is?
- [26:40]
Dr. Scott Scher
No.
- [26:41]
Amitai Eshel
Oh, I forget his name, but he was on the podcast. He's like this amazing doctor out of. Out of St. Pete, Florida.
- [26:49]
Dr. Scott Scher
Okay.
- [26:50]
Amitai Eshel
And he. He basically is like a retired Navy seal. All he cares about is, like, curing, you know, you know, like, divers that. That. God, obviously, like, diving injuries and stuff like that, but he goes and, like, lives under the sea for, like, a month and sees what's.
- [27:04]
Dr. Scott Scher
Oh, I know this guy is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.
- [27:07]
Amitai Eshel
He's a very, very cool guy.
- [27:09]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah. The problem with. With all these hyperbaric guys, and I like them. They're referring. I mean, everybody's doing. Is that the context is really important, right. In the sense of. And I don't know how much Jason talks about this. Maybe he's talking about it more. But in the sense that hyperbaric therapy is not the right thing for everybody right now. And that's the key, and that's the framework that I like to try to, you know, navigate.
- [27:29]
Amitai Eshel
There you are navigating to my kind of questions, which is. Which is more like anti aging and hyperbaric oxygen therapy? So, like, my question is, how can or should hyperbaric oxygen therapy play a role in anti aging specifically, obviously, in terms of skin health? And I even. I'm not saying regeneration because it just drives it back to the. To the wound healing discussion. But like, in anti aging and overall skin youthfulness, should it even play a role?
- [28:01]
Dr. Scott Scher
I think. I think it absolutely should. Yeah. I mean, I think that we know that the technology itself can rebuild blood vessels in areas. Right. So if for anything else, if you can rebuild blood vessels in your brain, your heart, your liver, and your genital tissue, like, that's good, right? If you can get erections, again, great. If you can think more. Fantastic, right? Or get better erection, whatever it might be. Right. So I think that the context is important, right? In the sense of do I think it's like the first longevity tool that people should be thinking about? No, it's like maybe number five or ten on the list. Right.
- [28:32]
Amitai Eshel
But.
- [28:33]
Dr. Scott Scher
And. But to use it periodically to do some optimization strategy around it can be really robust. Right. So if my. My framework is always, you know, what are you doing before hyperbaric therapy, like getting yourself ready for it, what are you doing immediately right before you get into the chamber? Like supplements, like technologies to help optimize actually going in the chamber itself. Like sometimes you can do things inside the chamber, depending on the type of chamber. And what are you doing afterwards to. To help make sure that you're doing everything you can to, you know, to. To ma. To maximize the longevity benefits and also minimize any potential downsize. Right. I'm gonna be mostly beyond the oxidative load side of things, so. But, yeah, yeah, but I think it absolutely be part of a. Of a longevity plan. And I think that the studies that, as you know, that have been done in Israel, you know, showing things like senescent cell population downregulation or destruction, we don't know exactly what happens to them chamber. My gut sense here is that they just. We work on optimizing them and like, they can regenerate themselves in the chamber.
- [29:28]
Amitai Eshel
Yes, yes.
- [29:29]
Dr. Scott Scher
But nobody knows for sure. So I do think it can be part of a robust strategy. But if somebody came to me tomorrow, as they often do, and say, hey, Doc, I want to buy a chamber, I want it for longevity reasons, I would go, okay, what else are you doing for longevity? You know, like, what else are you doing? And then. And because, like, if you're not doing, you know, five or 10 other things, then it's a waste of money, it's a waste of time. And. And because, look, you know, the. This is going to be a very Israeli thing, but, you know, this is like, well, when I went to Israel in 2018, and I went to visit with the doctors there, Dr. Efrati and others.
- [30:00]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [30:01]
Dr. Scott Scher
Well, I'm like, okay, great. This is working. You show me all this stuff. This is great. I'm like, well, what happens later? Like, what happens? Like, does this last? Is it like. Well, we don't know. We don't know. You know, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. They come back, you know. And I was like, of course. Right? That's like. And so, like, are you doing anything for their diet, their lifestyle? Like, are you trying to get them to do anything? And so, like. And the answer was, we don't know. You know, We. The things we don't know, we don't know, you know? And I was like, well, how long are these. How long are these. These results gonna last? You know? And like, well, we don't know. Nobody studied it, right? So. And so. And it's not. There's not a lot of incentive to study that, as you can imagine, right? And so if you're doing the same things that got you to where you are, the idea is that you're probably gonna go back to where you were at some point after you got back to. Even. Even if you got better for a little while. So my thing always is how can you maximize the benefits? Right? And maximizing. Maximizing the benefits of doing hyperbaric therapy for longevity is to do all the groundwork, you know, ahead of time. And then, yes, when you go into the chamber, you will see that it's a very common thing, as you know, that people will say their skin looks better. Like it's.
- [31:01]
Amitai Eshel
There's.
- [31:01]
Dr. Scott Scher
There's more. Like, there's less wrinkles there. The skin looks more like. Looks more healthy overall. Right. There is some studies on collagen production in the skin with hyperbaric therapy. Right. So that. That. That. Those are what I would say is added benefits to being in the chamber. Right. I don't think about the skin as much as you do. Right. I think about. But I know you think about more systemic health as well, as a manifestation. Right. Or the skin is a manifestation or whatever. Right. But I have a lot of patients of mine that have hyperbaric chambers in their house. Right. And I will work with them on hyperbaric protocols. I will have them do longevity protocols, go in five days a week for, you know, 40 sessions. And then I'll have do maintenance, do three times a week at various pressures, and then go in once every one to three to five years for another longevity protocol. But I'm measuring things over time. I'm checking their labs, I'm making sure that we're not over oxidizing them. Right. And then maybe they need to be wearing their hyperbaric mask while they're in there because the skins are more sensitive. Right. So, yeah, I haven't been doing, but maybe I need to do more of that. But.
- [31:56]
Amitai Eshel
But I tell you another thing that we know, you know, to your point about, like, you know, what we decide to do beforehand, there's something really unique. So. So actually I. I'm going to skip a question that I wanted to ask you. If you view maybe I will, because I'm already half asking it. Do you view HBOT mainly as a stressor or that's just a byproduct? Like, would you define it as a stressor?
- [32:19]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yes, yeah, I would. I mean, in general, unless you have an acute issue, unless you have an acute trauma where you're really just looking to reoxygenate as fast as possible, the major way that hyperbaric therapy works is by causing oxidative stress.
- [32:33]
Amitai Eshel
Yes.
- [32:33]
Dr. Scott Scher
That's what increases stem cells. That's what changes your epigenetics. That's what decreases your inflammation, creates new blood vessels. That's all because of oxidative stress. So if. And there's pressure involved as well, there's the pressure itself that increases energy. And of course you need to make energy, and that's why people feel better oftentimes in the chamber. But in essence, the majority of what's happening long term in a chamber is related to oxidative load, hormetic stress. So you better be able to tolerate that. Right. Or you better be able to know what your capacity is to be able to balance that over time.
- [33:06]
Amitai Eshel
By the way, you know, it's very. It's not the same, but it's very similar with infrared saunas. I love how fill in the blank would say people got like a adverse reaction to the Infrared sauna, they can't detoxify. It's a nice story. No, you increased oxidative load and your. The body could, could not respond. But the reason I'm saying it is because one of the things that happens in the chamber, like you said, some positive things are happening in the chamber. One of them actually is activation of Sirtuins, especially Sirt1. And we know that in the skin atlas, the minute that you get to the hypoxic stage response that happens, that actually stops. So we definitely, only from that point of view, if we wanted to support that kind of DNA repair process, we actually want to kind of front load NAD or other permidine or other things that would be. Support that sirtuin and PARP activation, things like that, rather than wait for after.
- [34:04]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, trying to measure people and understanding where they are from a foundational oxidative load inflammatory state is very, very important. Um, and I think that gets missed a lot in the hyperbaric world because again, if you have a chamber to sell, you want to sell it. If you have a chamber to fill in a clinic, you want to fill it. And I get that. But if we could wait a little while and to work on that and then support the system while they're going through, I, I've seen just more massive benefits by far doing it in that capacity. But yeah, those are really good points.
- [34:31]
Amitai Eshel
Okay, great. So, yeah, that's kind of what I wanted to, to kind of COVID as far as chambers, because I think we've spoken a lot about it here and because it's such a touchy subject as far as like, regulation, stuff like that, I think it. You get a lot of vague answers. So I'm really happy we, we got an answer around. You know, you could, you could definitely go into a chamber. It has to be, it has to be with intent, if you would.
- [34:53]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:55]
Amitai Eshel
Any thoughts on cvac?
- [34:56]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah. So CVAC is like a hypoxic environment, right? So it's giving you this altitude, like chamber where you go up and down altitude very quickly. I think there's some benefits there. I mean, I do think that the pressure is the main thing that's happening there and the pressure itself causing, you know, sheer stress. It's, there's like mild hypoxic stress. I do think there, there is some evidence that it does increase mitochondrial biogenesis. So I think it's good. However, I do worry that it could be too stressful for people that are already under significant stress. Um, what I'd Prefer people do in that case is do hyperbaric therapy with air brakes because then the air brakes are kind of like a, like a relative hypoxic stress without going into altitude type of chamber or altitude conditions. But look, I have a lot of friends of mine that are in the, in the, in the sort of altitude hypobaric world and doing it for, for performance and seeing massive, massive benefit. And I think it's the, where you're seeing a lot of that is in the creation of more mitochondria per cell. And also you can you get new blood vessels that way too?
- [35:52]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah, you get like erythropoin, right? Like the expression.
- [35:55]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, you can. So I think, I think there's benefits there and I've been working on some protocols where you do both, but I really. It's a little bit hard in the system depending on the type of hyperoxic and the hypoxic exposure. So I have a friend of mine, his name's Brian McKenzie. Brian's like this like breath guru expert. People can look him up. He's got a nonprofit, it's called Adapt Shift and he does a lot of CO2 training and we talk a lot about hypoxic training and hyperbaric training and kind of putting all that together. But it's, that's more advanced for most people, I think for, for the most part, like got to stick to the basics. Unless you're looking at from like a performance perspective.
- [36:31]
Amitai Eshel
Got it.
- [36:32]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah.
- [36:35]
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- [38:00]
Amitai Eshel
Bye. So I do have questions. So. So you obviously founded a company that I'm addicted to that's called Triptions.
- [38:11]
Dr. Scott Scher
A company I was co founded, yeah.
- [38:13]
Amitai Eshel
What?
- [38:14]
Dr. Scott Scher
Co founded?
- [38:14]
Amitai Eshel
Co founded. Co founded, yeah. First of all, I have to say that my story is that I was subscribe to the first teaser newsletter. I don't know what it says about me as a human. There's a whole story about the first newsletters or the first teasers. But way before I met you guys and yeah, I was very, very interested in what you are doing as far as like, you know, the intersection between like biohacking and actually using trochees. Because I knew trochees from a good friend, Kent Crowley, who kind of pioneered the troches and CBD and sometimes thc. He just didn't tell people that that's part of it. And then comes along a company that has this incredible delivery system for a molecule that, that I only heard about. I actually was afraid like everyone else to take because it was alleged as a. As a tank. Fish tank cleaner.
- [39:04]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had some good initial headlines during the pandemic with some of our friends like the Biohacker Babes. And Ben Greenfield was actually featured in it too. It's like biohackers taking fish tank cleaner to reverse their age or something like that. So.
- [39:17]
Amitai Eshel
Yes, exactly.
- [39:18]
Dr. Scott Scher
It was a very like, you know, woke moment for like the. The horse dewormer kinds of things. Yes, but it was, it was good publicity at the time. But yeah, that the first newsletter must have been like, oh, maybe September of 2019 or something like that. Yeah, we had, we had a lot of. We had a lot of build up to our final launch of the first of Blue Canadine back. It was in February 2020. It took us a long time to launch that.
- [39:42]
Amitai Eshel
Still my favorite product, to be honest. Yeah, I love all of them. Yeah, I love to look out and I have it every. It's funny, I literally have it everywhere. Like I have it in the bedroom. I have it like in a closet downstairs. I have it next to the. When I. When I prepare for the podcast, I have it. I. Yeah, I think, to be honest, again, an amazing product. But before we get into like product product because.
- [40:06]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, yeah. Could you.
- [40:07]
Amitai Eshel
Could you just kind of linger a little bit on like what troches are and maybe how they deliver Benefits differently from traditional supplements because that's what they are pitted against, whether rightfully or not. Like that's what.
- [40:25]
Dr. Scott Scher
It's a good, it's a good like sort of comparison factor. Right. So troche's have been around for a long time. They got their major uses at compounding pharmacies and company pharmacies use it for hormones. They use it for ketamine for example. And what's nice about a trochee, and I actually have one here, I can show people because you know, I do these things and I have to show, show and tell. This is what it looks like over here. It's like, it's like there's a dissolvable lozenge that's scored. So it's got a line in between. It looks like a cross. And the, the nice thing about a trochee, a couple things. So the first is that it's a buccal absorption. So it goes between your upper cheek and gum up here. And as a result of that it bypasses digestion. And so when many things, you know, we, when we, when we ingest many things, supplements, food, et cetera, it goes through digestion, it goes through our liver and it gets a lot of things, especially our supplements get inactivated. So by bypassing that whole process, you're keeping the ingredients more active by directly absorbing into the mucosa here. Yeah. The other thing about it is that the buccal mucosa is highly vascular. And so you're also going to get a very, a much more rapid delivery over here as a result of getting the buccal absorption, which is great. And then the third thing is that these trochees as being scored, as I mentioned, they are titratable. So the tri. The problem with a lot of capsules of course is that a capsule's like one dose and you have, if you wanna make it less of a dose, it's gonna get messy, right? Yeah. Troche's are great because they're easy to titrate. So you can start out with a quarter, you can even cut up into an eighth if you really want to. If you have like a straight blade, which sometimes I'll do depending on the troche. Those usually the off the books trochees. But that's a different.
- [41:58]
Amitai Eshel
Exactly.
- [41:59]
Dr. Scott Scher
But it can be quarter, half full. You can titrate your dose. Can see kind of works best for you. And so those are the main reasons why we use troches. And like they're easy to be very precision about it. Like, you know, everybody's had that experience where they've had like the pot brownie, right? Where like, no, you, like the. Your friend got no symptoms at all. Felt great. Like, and no, no, no, no THC at all. Like, didn't have any issues. It didn't like, didn't get high. Then you got the brownie with all of the THC in it. You couldn't move. I'm not talking about experience here or anything. This happened.
- [42:29]
Amitai Eshel
And you're asking Jesus, how did you do? And Jesus said, I'm doing great, but Buddha is slipped.
- [42:35]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, this happened to me in high school. Oh, mom, if you're listening, I'm sorry, but I don't think I've mentioned this on a podcast. She listens to a lot of my podcasts.
- [42:44]
Amitai Eshel
Oh, that's adorable.
- [42:45]
Dr. Scott Scher
My parents were away and we made pop brownies before we went to go to watch Jimmy Page and the Black Crows. And I'm like, I'm a huge fan of Led Zeppelin. I was like. And it was like, I was so excited about the show and I literally said like the whole show, my head was in my lap and I was like, I can't move or enjoy this at all. Anyway, so when you have a troche, you can precision dose it. So these are all homogenized in a way that you have the exact, exact amount of ingredients in any portion of the troche. So it's precision dosed in that way too. So it's, it's really nice to have that. Especially when I'm working with people that are sicker and they have more inflammation and like, we gotta, we have to worry on, we have to worry about, you know, you know what their dose is gonna be and like, we wanna make sure they're getting the exact same thing every single time.
- [43:25]
Amitai Eshel
Interesting.
- [43:26]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah.
- [43:27]
Amitai Eshel
And to attest to that, you know, most of the time I take the just blue troches, I swallow them. Cause I just, you know, Anastasia doesn't like when my teeth are blue, quite frankly. That's the reason.
- [43:37]
Dr. Scott Scher
Well, the cool thing, yeah, the cool thing about methylene blue though is that it's an anomaly in the sense that it's almost a hundred percent bioavailable no matter how you take it. So if you take it as a trochee or you swallow it, you're going to get all of it, almost all of it in the system. It just. The difference is how fast it's going to get.
- [43:51]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah, that's, that's what I want to say. I can see how fast I pee blue basically. And it's the difference actually stark, like how fast it goes to my system, which. So that, that is. Yes, I agree with that for sure.
- [44:06]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah.
- [44:07]
Amitai Eshel
So, again, very, very interesting focusing on methylene blue. I'm, like, I'm itching to talk about that other troch. It's. I'm. I'm holding myself true to the, to the questions that I actually want you to answer for other people. But like, methylene blue obviously has been studied for its benefits in like, cellular energy. Let's ignore the fish cleaning, the fish tank cleaning thing, and obviously mitochondrial function, which we've already spoken about. So how, how do you see this specific, these specific effects influencing skin health and potentially like supporting, like, as you said before, about, like the five things that people should do, like supporting longevity routine.
- [44:49]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, I mean, so again, this, this kind of goes back to the sort of the basic question, right? If you're supporting mitochondrial function, whether it be in the skin or whether it be in skin cells or in, you know, cells around your blood vessels or wherever they are, you're going to see benefits overall. If you can make energy more effectively, you're going to have less inflammation in the system, you know, whether that be around the blood vessels or that be in the skin. So from a skin health perspective, you know, methylene blue has actually, actually, there's actually, there's actually interesting study that they did where they used methylene blue to see if it would protect skin cells from radiation. And it can do that, right? It can be as powerful to protect skins from radiation. Just like, I think that. I can't remember the. What they compared it to. I want to say it was like ubiquinol. Yeah, it could have been ubiquinol or it could have been like, like, like some other antioxidant, whatever. I don't remember which one it was, but it was the, basically the, the conclusion of the study is that this, you know, methylene blue taken orally, can protect your skin from radiation. Right. And so why is that? Right, because methylene blue is protecting your mitochondria. And so I think that there's significant benefit, especially because we're all getting radiation exposure. Um, and I, I get a little bit more than you do because I live closer to the sun here at 5,000ft. So, you know, I, I take, I have to take more methylene blue and use more skincare products, which I should be using more of, but that's a different story. But it's really dry here, man. It's really dry. But anyway, I. So from A skin health perspective, that's a great indication that, you know, using methylene blue is also not, it's not only protecting like the inside, but also, you know, your outside or the cells on the outside of your skin and protecting it as well. And we have people, you know, we use it a lot for travel, for people that are traveling because of the ionizing radiation of being on an airplane. And we've seen lots of benefits overall just from a mitochondrial health perspective, from a energy perspective. So like that's where I see, you know, although we haven't studied this and it hasn't really studied in humans, I do see that, that there could be a significant benefit from a skin health perspective using methylene lube because of its mitochondrial effects.
- [46:45]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah. Yes. Now I, I, I'm, I, I'm going to go into like things that I, I was wondering and, and, and let's see, let's see if I'm correct. Like one of my favorite troches that you guys have is a troim, like to the extent where I wanted to write to you guys. By the way, this is a real question. Can I buy all the older troimmune that you guys have that are higher dose? So buy all of them.
- [47:12]
Dr. Scott Scher
So we have trim in two different ways now. We have trim, 75 milligram strength and we have troplusmune, which is the 150s.
- [47:21]
Amitai Eshel
So but you can only buy it through practitioners.
- [47:23]
Dr. Scott Scher
Right? But I think, you know, a couple of those.
- [47:25]
Amitai Eshel
Oh yes. Yeah.
- [47:26]
Dr. Scott Scher
Like me for example. So if you'd like them, I can help you get them. Sure. So the, the troplus. The reason why we did that is because we found that the 150s were really doing a lot for like a lot of amazing work on condition based work, medical work. And the 75, the 75 milligram dose was the day to day operations dose or lower for most people. So that's why we decided to kind of go that route. But yeah, it's a fantastic product.
- [47:48]
Amitai Eshel
Fantastic product. So my first question about like trimmune. So first of all, 75 is the, you said it's the more day to day maintenance dose but it is also titratable. So is it, is it, is it 75 or do you see most people taking less or how would you recommend taking it? You know, I'm like 210 pounds.
- [48:10]
Dr. Scott Scher
Thank you for letting me know.
- [48:11]
Amitai Eshel
Should I lower my weight first or how to go.
- [48:14]
Dr. Scott Scher
So think about, so think about traumun. So tractive ingredient. It's a really cool Compound like, it's called cordycepin, which is from the. It's the most active component of the cordyceps mushroom. And so Cordyceps is known from thousands of years to be a healing, longevity, energy, libido, lung health, immune system health mushroom. We've taken the active component of it, the most active, which is like a hundred times more powerful for all of those things. Okay. But especially as an anti inflammatory and it works on certain pathways like the NF Kappa B pathway like mtor, you know, all this stuff. Right. And so the interesting thing about it is it works like adenosine in the body. It's an adenosine agonist. And so adenosine has a lot of different mechanisms. Some in the skin, maybe, I don't know, you could tell me, but I'm sure it does. But it, what it, what it does from my perspective is that. So adenosine is a neuro, is a neurotransmitter in the brain. So it helps you feel sleepy. So if you drink caffeine, caffeine prevents adenosine from binding, so it makes you feel more awake. So what some people have been doing with trick lower doses at like a quarter of the trimmune or even a half is actually drinking your coffee and then having your troimmune like L Theanine type. Well more of that. It, what it is gonna. So what happens is adenosine is in the brain, but also adenosine helps you make energy. Right. Adenosine phosphate. So instead of it being diverted to making you feel sleepy, as in as a neurotransmitter, because those receptors are blocked, it'll go to your cells and your mitochondria to help you make more energy.
- [49:37]
Amitai Eshel
Nice.
- [49:38]
Dr. Scott Scher
And so drink your caffeine, have a little bit of train and then go work out and potentially increase your workout capacity. But most people are taking TR at night because it does at about 40 milligrams or so increase deep sleep. That's why it's also in TRO Z, our troscription product, Tro Z as well. But it is also at night for. I mean that's one of them where they're most relaxed typically. Right. And that's when our immune system is going to be the most modulated to be able to fight stuff in general. That's why I say sleep is the best medicine. Right?
- [50:05]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah.
- [50:05]
Dr. Scott Scher
It's not just, it's not just like an old wives tale. It is because when you sleep you're able to heal. And so the cordycetin in the trimmune here can be really helpful and you can use a couple different ways. You can use it as a, as a sort of a targeted. Where you're like, you know you're under more stress, like you're traveling like the baby's keeping you up, like somebody's come in the house and like they're sick again. And, and you can use it like as a higher dose for that. Like so I usually in that case I would use 75mg minimum nightly until whatever it was was getting better. But if it's more like prophylactic like you're just kind of using it like you have like day to day stress and like you're doing like. Then I use like lower dose, like I use a quarter, like a half of the trochee, about 37.5. And that's, that's kind of like my, like my day to day operations during the summer. Like and especially when things, you know, when you're outside a lot, you're exercising, you're getting good sunlight, then, then just like a low dose is what I all I would use sort of prophylactically. But from like if I'm on an airplane, if, if somebody's sick in my house, like I'm giving it to them too by the way. I'm giving the person TRO immune in my house. Even my wife who doesn't listen to me will take trune because it helps her when she's got a viral infection because it's also directly antimicrobial. Cordycetin because it works like adenosine. Adenosine is a base pair in our DNA, in our rna. So it actually can block the replication of fast replicating things like bugs, like viruses and like even potentially cancer cells as well. So it's being studied for that as well. So I can get my wife to take it for the cold and flu kinds of things. I give it to my kids at low doses if they're like they're coming down with something like, dude, it's been like this last year of my life. I mean my kids are older. That's true. Like My youngest is 7 and my oldest is 13. So it's not like I'm getting snotted on as much as you will be if you haven't been snotted on yet for the first five years of their life. You're basically like their tissue. So I often used to tell my friends without kids, it's like I get sick more than you do because the amount of the Load that I get of organism is going to be so much higher than the load that you get, you know, going on subway or whatever, right? Yeah, yeah. Full dose in the winter. And then when I'm traveling, I'll use more. I'll use the 150s if I'm at a conference on the troplus immune for that. And I also use the troplus immune a lot for patients with more chronic autoimmune, inflammatory kinds of things, because I see those doses being very, very helpful. I mean, it's been studied at these doses for allergies, mast cell activation, and as a result of that, I've seen some benefit. Now, I'm not making any claims about this stuff, right? I mean, this is just claims in the sense of we know what happens with the physiology. And these are some studies that have been done in animals and in, you know, small human trials. But in the house, I use it with my kids, I use it with my wife. My wife doesn't do anything that I listen that I tell her, but she will take some tromun. So. So I think that there is a lot of benefit to using on a regular basis, but. But I think you can use it on a targeted level as well. And what I love about it is, like, I get these responses all the time. I'm gonna tell you where people will tell me I slept for the first time in a long time, taking Troimmune. And I'm like, well, it wasn't really designed for that. It was designed to help you, you know, get the inflammatory downregulation and the antimicrobial side of things. But it does increase deep sleep because it's adenosine agonist, right?
- [53:17]
Amitai Eshel
So, yeah, because sleep is just like sleep or sleepiness or, you know, deep sleep is just the offsetting of the balance between adenosine clearing and. And adenosine accumulation. Like, it's not like one or the other.
- [53:32]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, exactly. Right. And we're just kind of. We're helping with that balance to be shifted in the way that you've get. You're able to fall asleep faster and that you're able to get more sleep. So I've gotten a number of people that reached out to me over the last year. Like, this is the first time I've been able to sleep in name it. 5, 10, 20 years. Like. Like a long time. And it's because they're getting an increase in deep sleep. Now, if you do take traumune for a long time, you will notice that your REM Sleep goes down a little bit, but this is compensating for your deep sleep going up. So I see like a 20 or 30% increase in deep sleep, but I see about a 20 or 30% decrease in REM over time as well. So that's just something people be, have to wear, be aware of. Most people won't mind having a little bit less REM sleep. It's the deep sleep that, that most of us are not getting as much of as we get older.
- [54:17]
Amitai Eshel
Also, REM sleep is really the, the measurement of REM sleep is amateur at best.
- [54:22]
Dr. Scott Scher
Truly true. Yeah, very true. Yeah. But if you look at your like your day to day numbers, if you have an OURA ring or something like, you will see those numbers shift in that way. So just to be aware of that. But the interesting thing about it is like when you take trimmune before bed, you'll oftentimes get another deep sleep bump earlier in the morning where most people won't usually get a lot of deep sleep right before they get up in the morning. So that's good because you're getting more. But some people will feel like a tiny little bit groggy when they wake up because they're not used to getting that deep sleep at like 5 or 6 o'clock in the morning before they wake up. So just something to be aware of.
- [54:54]
Amitai Eshel
Reminds me of people experimenting with again growth hormone for improved sleep. So I do have a couple, like one more question maybe about the. Oh, one more anecdote which we don't have a lot of time so I'm not going to get into. But from the, from the, you know, we now are setting in nano NAD lab here in South Florida and one of the amazing doctors that we work with, Fenton Levon, he the hypothesizing is, has a lot of like substantial, you know, a lot of kind of experience to back that up. But he hypothesized a lot of the benefits that we perceive that we're getting from nadivs, et cetera is actually that increased adenosine. So.
- [55:35]
Dr. Scott Scher
Interesting. Okay. Yes, interesting. Yeah.
- [55:38]
Amitai Eshel
Including pain and addiction cessation.
- [55:41]
Dr. Scott Scher
Interesting. Yeah, that's, I'll have to look into that. I mean dentistine is such a ubiquitous molecule in the body. So it wouldn't be surprising to me if it had a lot of other roles like that potentially. But we'll have to see what, how cordycepin, you know, kind of transpires and how things go. But very excited about this is like the, the challenge with anything that kind of Helps with your immune system is that you don't know it worked unless you don't get sick and then you're like, well, yeah, but we say in.
- [56:08]
Amitai Eshel
Hebrew, prove that you don't have a sister, you know.
- [56:10]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I love that. Yeah. And, but so you, but some people, like as I mentioned, because of that deep sleep bump, you will have that benefit. And, and, and, and that's really good if you're sick. Obviously if you're sick and you get more sleep, you're gonna get better faster. Right. So that's an important point.
- [56:23]
Amitai Eshel
So cordyceps is also known for a better, better oxygenation. Is there a, is there a benefit there as well from the cordycepin or.
- [56:29]
Dr. Scott Scher
No. So what, what that means is that cordyceps and the cordycepin in it can be just utilized just like ATP. So it can be made into ATP. So you have more capacity to make ATP if you have cordyceps around. That's why you can increase your VO2 max. So it's not increasing oxygenation per se, but it's increasing the capacity for you to utilize oxygen more on a minute to minute basis. Right. Because.
- [56:52]
Amitai Eshel
Interesting.
- [56:53]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, you have the capacity there. Yeah.
- [56:54]
Amitai Eshel
So would you say for athletic performance, do we want to kind of have that alongside like either, you know, we say like blue cannotine or methylene blue because that is also, you know, something that improves the, you know, basically the Krebs cycle or ATP production.
- [57:09]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah. So we have people taking like, like low dose troimmune in the morning along with glucanitine. So you're blocking the. But you use the blue canadine first because you're blocking the adenosine receptors in the brain because you have caffeine in there. And then you go and you work out. It's a, it's a fantastic combination. Yeah.
- [57:22]
Amitai Eshel
Wow.
- [57:23]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah. And then of course you can use methylene blue to optimize mitochondrial function at the same time. So it's the trifecta, man. Yeah. For sure.
- [57:29]
Amitai Eshel
This, to be honest with you, and, and shout out to Tro zip. I think it's such a cool product, but it's. To me it's trozy. I say I headbutt the pillow. Like literally you can wait like 15 minutes. And I literally feel like I am forcefully basically falling asleep. Someone hit a button of some sort. It's pretty crazy.
- [57:52]
Dr. Scott Scher
That's funny. That's great and that's always good to hear. But that's not what everybody needs. But that's what a lot of people can use. Right?
- [57:57]
Amitai Eshel
Yes.
- [57:58]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah. Yes.
- [57:58]
Amitai Eshel
Oh, and I do take it together with Tro Imune.
- [58:00]
Dr. Scott Scher
So that might be the, that's my combination too is I, I use like a half if I'm, especially when I'm traveling. It's a half a tro z and a half a traumun or sometimes a full Tromian to help with travel.
- [58:11]
Amitai Eshel
Fantastic. Let me do, let me do a recap. My recap of like again, as, as a legit transcription like addict. Uh, let me do a re. Recap of how I view things. And you can you, you should correct me if I'm wrong or improve my kind of my approach. Okay, so I did not do the, the both trimmune and gluconatin before Jiu Jitsu. I, I actually did not apply the, the idea of a quarter trim for Jiu Jitsu yet. But I do take blue canadine. I take my meta and my just blue in the morning and I, I take it with coffee. So I was like, okay, let's not do blue canadine. We're going to do just blue right now. One of the things that I think are very important for skin health, but also for me as an entrepreneur is the sense of delicate calm. Obviously I'm translating here from Hebrew. In my head, it sounds significantly better and less silic in Hebrew. But the not, not a numbing calmness, but the, a calmness that you still are interested in what you are doing. You are just not getting, you know, different emotion peaks while going through a task. And that I think is incredible. As far as like the TRO calm, another thing that I really like about Trocom is, you know, recommending it to people alongside their, their journey for skin optimization. And the reason is, is because one of the things that, and actually we spoke it quite, quite thoroughly about it on podcast that we had in the morning that there is an issue with catecholamine, especially like cortisol and skin health, because cortisol increases the releasing of dead skin which accumulates. So if your cells don't turn over fast enough, but, but you shed dead skin, you're actually accumulating it. And in general it increases mmps which damage collagen. So that's, I, I, I recommend it to everyone, honestly that are interested in skin health.
- [60:08]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, thank you.
- [60:10]
Amitai Eshel
Again, same thing with, with methylene blue because again, we need better mitochondria if we want to improve our skin health. Adenosine is super important, but in general chromium, like your immune system, I think you Know there, there is a. A really, really, really good book which 100 is the New 30 by Jeffrey Gladden.
- [60:29]
Dr. Scott Scher
Okay.
- [60:30]
Amitai Eshel
And he has this, these three pillars which is like optimal performance, robust. It's like like resilience and longevity. And it's the Venn diagram. Right. So I think resilience, but. But you can have one and actually like damage the others, right?
- [60:46]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, yeah.
- [60:47]
Amitai Eshel
So for in the quest of resilience, a lot of the times what you are doing to build resilience doesn't manifest itself in like optimal performance or longevity. Like any comment about Wim Hof's skin would be appropriate here, right?
- [61:01]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's a good one.
- [61:03]
Amitai Eshel
So. So I think like a robust immune system that we didn't need to like jeopardize other parts of the Venn diagram for is like extremely important for skin health as a whole. And of course in the sleep is sleep as king or queen, whatever number one thing you want to do. So the stack of like Trozi and Tromun at night for me is like essential. Did I miss anything as far as like stacks or do you think that's pretty much.
- [61:29]
Dr. Scott Scher
I mean, I think you did a good job, man. That for sleep stack trust Troz. I'll have some people use Trocom instead of Tro Z if they have more difficult time going to bed. But they. Once they fall asleep they're fine because their mind is kind of racing. But yeah, then your methylene blue blue canitine trune stacks in the morning, you can play with those as well. Yeah, thanks. This has been fun, man. I appreciate it. This is. It's always good to see you.
- [61:49]
Amitai Eshel
Yeah, it's my absolute pleasure. Where can people find out more? Obviously, where can they buy it? But also how can they learn more about.
- [61:56]
Dr. Scott Scher
Yeah, so I mean we're, we're education forward. I mean I do all the, a lot of the education for the company. You know troscriptions. Com. We have tons of blogs on there from everything. From everything we've been discussing here today. And then you can go to Roscriptions on Instagram, you can go to rscott Sher D R S E O T S H E R R my name on Instagram. You can find me there. On the hyperbaric side you can just find me anywhere. But in my website there is integrative hbot.com people are interested on that side. But. But yeah, go to Triscriptions. Check it out, try some products. If you're a practitioner, sign up for an account and we can get you, you know, we can get your wholesale pricing. And I will be hooking up Amate over here with some Tropus Immune too. It sounds like Woohoo.
- [62:33]
Amitai Eshel
And. And Home Hope. How do they get there?
- [62:35]
Dr. Scott Scher
Oh yeah, our nonprofit. Go to homehope.org and you can check it out. We have a seven module certification course for all different types of practitioners. I've.
- [62:42]
Amitai Eshel
That's fine. I'll tell Jody you didn't mention it. That's fine. No problem. Fantastic. Scott, thank you very much. It has been an absolute pleasure.
- [62:49]
Dr. Scott Scher
My pleasure man. Take care.
- [62:50]
Amitai Eshel
Bye guys. Take care.