← Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast
Biohacking Beauty: The Anti-Aging Skincare Podcast
Nathalie Niddam: Peptides, Bioregulators, and the Truth About Skin Longevity
01:06:01
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- [00:05]
A
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Biohacking Beauty podcast. My name is Anastasia Khojaeva.
- [00:10]
B
And I'm Amitai Eshel. We are the co founders of Yangus Skincare. And on this podcast, every week we dive deep into the science and art of keeping our body and skin youthful and optimal.
- [00:28]
A
Today we had such a brilliant guest. Her name is Natalie Needham. She's a longevity and peptide expert, highly regarded in the space and a close personal friend of ours.
- [00:39]
B
Yeah. And this was definitely extremely information packed. If you're interested in everything from how to improve your gut skin and overall health and longevity, this is a podcast you wouldn't want to miss.
- [00:55]
A
We go into the science of peptides. We break it down in a very simple language. It's very beginner friendly. But also for those already advanced in peptide strategies, I think you can still find a lot of good advice there.
- [01:09]
B
And I think you can find some actionable tips there that you can directly apply into your longevity and health optimization routine.
- [01:22]
A
But without further ado, let's welcome Natalie Nidang.
- [01:32]
B
Nat. Welcome back to the Biohacking podcast. But it's the first time that.
- [01:37]
A
Yes, finally, I'm also in the room.
- [01:40]
C
I know. This is so exciting. My two favorite people in one place.
- [01:44]
A
And I think it's your third time on the podcast and honestly, we would have you every episode if we could. It was very busy.
- [01:55]
C
Yeah, well, I think we all are.
- [01:57]
A
You're in a high demand.
- [01:59]
B
Yes. So let's just jump in since we have so much to cover.
- [02:05]
A
Yeah. So really today's conversation will be about a lot of longevity strategies and, and kind of your areas of expertise, which is peptides. And we've been talking about peptides since forever. You're just really like the go to and trusted experts for us and for so many others. But the field of peptides is just like really blowing up. Everybody's talking about, I don't know, my algorithm is just like, whenever I open Instagram, somebody's talking about peptides all the time.
- [02:35]
C
Yeah.
- [02:36]
A
So I know some, some of our listeners will be like, already familiar with it, but some will be just like hearing about peptides for the very first time. So should we start in the very beginning? Like, what is.
- [02:47]
B
Yeah, let's start with like, for people who are new to peptides. Yeah.
- [02:52]
A
Yeah. So if somebody's asking you, what is a peptide? What's your kind of go to answer?
- [02:57]
C
My go to answer. So, you know, basically a peptide is a small protein. Right. So your body works, is built of proteins. It works with proteins. It's all about the proteins, and which is why there's so many people out there who are like, just eat protein, you'll be fine. Which is, you know, maybe missing a few details, but we'll leave that alone for now. And so peptides specifically are much smaller proteins. And there's in, in my mind, there's a subset of peptides called bioregulator peptides. So we have two categories of peptides. The larger, the longer chain peptide would be something like people might have heard of BPC157. They might have heard of TB500, which is actually a big fragment of thymosin beta 4. They might have heard of GHKCU. Now, GHKCU, people like me think, ah, you know what, it's kind of like it straddles the fence between the signaling peptides and the bioregulator peptides. So there's this whole family, right? So some of these peptides are in their entirety naturally occurring in the human body. Some of them are fragments of peptides that are naturally occurring in the human body. But what's important to understand is particularly on the longer chain peptides, and there's a couple of exceptions to this. They primarily work as signaling molecules, which means that they will bind to receptors on the cell. And from the outside of the cell, they'll initiate cascades inside the cell that'll affect the changes that you're looking for.
- [04:29]
A
Got it.
- [04:30]
C
Now, having said that, there are some peptides BPC157 will also. And there's a few more, a few more actually, that will affect the expression of your genes, but they don't do it from inside the nucleus. That really belongs to the bioregulator peptides. And this is where I think GHKCU kind of straddles that fence because it's only three amino acids. And you know what? I don't actually know the answer to this question, but I suspect that it also is able to get into the nucleus of the cell and directly impact DNA expression. So the bioregulators are no more than four amino acids long. So they're anywhere from two to four amino acids. Amino acids, if you guys are totally new to this, are the building blocks of protein. So think of Legos, the little ones, and those are your amino acids. And then they get connected and arranged in different shapes and sizes. I know you guys are intimately. Are you at Lego stage yet or not?
- [05:25]
A
Oh, yes, yes.
- [05:26]
B
Oh, yeah. We're in Duplo stage, which is like.
- [05:28]
A
Yeah, the bigger the Lego for one year olds.
- [05:31]
C
And then you will develop the foot disease that all new parents develop, which is when there's Legos all over your house and you step on them on a regular basis, usually in the middle of the night when your child wakes up and somebody didn't put away the Lego. Anyway. Yes, Back to our bioregulators. So the bioregulators are different because instead of being a signaling peptide, they are epigenetic switches. And that's a big word. All that means is they turn your genes on and off, very specific genes. So I'll stop there and you guys decide where else you want to go from there. But that's your.
- [06:05]
B
I'll tell you what I would like people to hear. A lot of people that we speak with. There is the unspoken understanding with someone that's new to peptides that it is lumped into the supplement category. Even if it's injectable peptides, they almost look at it the same way that they would look at a vitamin C injection or B12 injection. And I think there is a good differentiation here between these kind of precision signals or what I call kind of computer codes for the human body and added raw materials. Which are what, which, which are what supplements are. Even if we think of, you know, collagen peptides, even though they're called peptides, what they really do, they, they add more amino acids which your body then can use to either make collagen or other things that it needs that are made out of amino acids. Whereas as you explained, peptides are not meant to replenish any reservoir other than the reservoir of maybe signaling that it needs.
- [07:14]
C
You know, a good analogy is if you're building a house, right? If you're building a house, you need a good contractor and your contractor needs good materials. So the materials are the building blocks. The contractor is going to do the work, but without the plans and the instructions, the contractor is not going to know what to do necessary. I mean, if he's a good contractor. But you might end up with a house you didn't really want. So.
- [07:38]
A
Right.
- [07:39]
C
So the contra. The peptides are the blueprints and the, and the drawings and the instructions, the cabinets and the windows and the nails and the flooring and all that stuff. Those are the building materials. And you bring up a great point, Amitai, and I think people forget that very often is that if you don't pay attention to the materials. So are you eating a good diet? Are you providing your body with all the amino acids it needs to build the proteins based on the instructions that you gave from the peptides, however you took them, you're not going to get the results right. And my favorite, the worst thing that can happen when you're on a construction site is a fire, right? Because if the construction site's on fire, you can have the best contractor, the best instructions, the best materials. Nothing's going to work. And the fire is inflammation. And I didn't know how I was going to squeeze inflammation into this conversation, but it just so happens it's popping up at the beginning.
- [08:37]
A
I mean, inflammation is such a big conversation. And, you know, everyone is facing it these days because there are so many triggers for it, you know, in our. In this artificial world we created around ourselves. And, you know, so I have a new analogy. Yeah.
- [08:55]
B
And the Lego pieces, I gotta say, a new analogy.
- [08:58]
C
My new analogy is, you know, when they build a house, they have to dig holes for the foundation. If you have a fire in the foundation, your house is screwed. Even if you don't see the fire about the fire in the foundation is the fire in your gut. And the inflammation, the gut inflammation that is now rampant, the leaky gut that is also rampant in our society because of eating the wrong foods, because of chronic stress, because of so many different things that are going on. If that inflammation, that fire, is not put out and dealt with, it really doesn't matter what else you build on top of it. None of it's going to be as good or as healthy or as solid. And it doesn't matter what the instructions are. Anyway. That's my inflammation analogy for the day.
- [09:55]
A
No, for sure. And so are you basically also kind of saying, oh, could one infer that the, you know, peptides is not for everyone? Like, you have to deal with inflammation kind of first before you even go into. Try any peptides? Like, basically, you know.
- [10:14]
C
Yeah, yes and no. I mean, look, I think peptides, there's peptides that can help managing inflammation, right? There's peptides that are very powerful for helping to seal leaky gut. Yeah, right. So you have, in the peptide space, you have solution, some solutions to this very issue.
- [10:34]
A
Got it.
- [10:35]
C
Right. And so what I think is, I think too often people aren't paying attention to the order of operations.
- [10:43]
A
Yeah, right.
- [10:44]
C
And if the other. Conversely, the other piece of the puzzle is if you're not paying attention to what is driving that inflammation and addressing that. So now we're stuck bailing out a leaky boat. Like, we might have a big bucket and we may be able to stay afloat, but, man, it's exhausting. Right. And you're using up resources.
- [11:05]
B
I'll even add something here which I think is extremely important. It's normally something that I don't get to discuss because no one cares about. Everyone wants to move away from the inflammation discussion, I feel like, onto cooler things. Having said that, I think inflammation is really cool because it is not. Inflammation is. Inflammation is not a problem. Here is your hot take.
- [11:30]
C
Yeah, it's like stress problem. Yeah.
- [11:34]
B
The problem is the unresolved inflammation. In other words, resolution of inflammation is one of the biggest drivers of or biggest contributors to health in the human body. Why am I saying that? So anything from, you know, building muscle, bone mass to building, you know, collagen to even. Even hair growth or even, you know, that we really don't want inflammation in the brain. So I'm going to not touch that subject. But not so much hormetic vascularization. Inflammation really is. I akin it to information. Inflammation is a call for resolution, and that breeds resilience. The problem especially, you know, we kind of touched epigenetics a little bit. The problem with imperfect or older epigenetics. Epigenetics that is imperfect, is that inflammation is resolved. Or if we have too much inflammation, inflammation is resolved at a slower rate than inflammation is produced. And then what we get is accumulation or chronic inflammation, which is obviously the issue, especially if we're talking about leaky gut. There is something incorrect there. But you could also talk about someone like myself who. Who had part of their meniscus removed in the knee. Right. And there is if just, you know, walking around, I am creating inflammation because my body mechanistically isn't, you know, according to. To specs.
- [13:09]
C
Exactly, Exactly.
- [13:11]
B
You're missing a part in 2020. 2022. In Denmark, there was like, a convention which they discussed the hallmarks of aging. They kind of got to 24 already. And then I think it was scrapped. It was too much for people. But one of them was mechanistic alterations, which is because of that breeding of inflammation.
- [13:31]
A
Yeah. So I have a question. The listeners that are maybe looking to start peptides therapy and listeners of our podcast are mostly interested in skin health. Right. So let's say I'm someone who wants to, like, just jump into learning about peptides for skin health. And now I hear, oh, I got to address my inflammation first. Do I have an inflammation? So how do you, like, how do you help people navigate that? Like, okay, you want to start peptides. You heard peptides are cool. And that's what, you know, you got to. You want to try what? And you said there is a order of operation. Right. Is there some kind of test you recommend people take before, like designing protocol for themselves or with you?
- [14:16]
C
Yeah, I think, you know, you need to understand the lay of the land. Right. So you need. Hopefully you're working with a functional medicine practitioner who's going to help you to understand where are your imbalances, where are the weakest.
- [14:29]
B
Wait, you can't do it with ChatGPT, man?
- [14:32]
C
Maybe. I don't know. But, you know, I mean, look, you start with the things that come out of your body. If you're not pooping perfect poops every day, there's probably something going on in your gut or you're eating foods that aren't agreeing with you. Right.
- [14:47]
A
Okay.
- [14:47]
C
And so it's, you know, and if the audience's end goal is skin beauty, which is what. What your audience really is after and what we're all after.
- [14:59]
B
Right.
- [14:59]
C
Like, I'm. I'm. I'm right up there with them. Yeah. We need to understand that this, your skin, is a reflection of what's happening on the inside of the body and the body. And we're gonna talk about this a lot more. But to our bodies, what our skin looks like is completely not even on the table. The body could care less. The body only cares that you're in this envelope, this living, breathing envelope, that it has its own microbiome on it, its own integrity, like it has an acid mantle that protects you from the outside in. All the body cares is that it's there. The body could give two flying fajitas.
- [15:44]
B
Apologies to who made me hungry, which cause inflammation. Just want to say that.
- [15:49]
C
What's that?
- [15:50]
B
I don't know. Fajita is just a steak. No, never mind. Go ahead.
- [15:53]
C
Anyway, the body doesn't care what it looks like. So when somebody comes to me and says, okay, I want to start taking peptides, I'm like, great. Why? What's the problem you're trying to solve? Do you even. Do you know? And conversely, you know, or not conversely, at the same time, somebody says to me, okay, my shoulder is really sore. What peptides can I use? Because we know peptides seem to be very helpful in helping with repair of tissues. Again, do you know why your shoulder hurts? Is it an acute injury, or is this something that's been going on for a long time? Because 99% of the time, we know that we acquire an injury, and as Amitay said, that inflammation, that pain, is a cry for help. Over here. Pay attention to me. But is it that your, your, the, the front of the shoulder is too tight, the back is too lax, you're sitting like this, something's out of, out of whack. Have you addressed the biomechanics of the shoulder? Will peptides help with pain and inflammation? In the short term, yes. But to actually fix the problem, you need to know the problem and address the problem. And that goes, yeah, that goes with every part of the body. So if somebody says to me, you know, what are the best peptides for health? I mean, I'm going to have some answers for them. But I'm also going to suggest to them that are, they have they paid attention to their nutrition and their hydration and their exposure to blue light and you know, and all the other things that we sit here. And do you understand what, what are the inputs that are challenging your skin both from the outside and the inside, so that you can also start to work on those while you're using peptides to enhance as much as possible.
- [17:38]
A
I love how you like show a full picture here.
- [17:42]
B
I also think, you know, and to add to what you're saying, just because I think people cannot hear that enough is obviously sleep and sleep is, is the best supplement. And also the lack of it causes problems. No other supplement can, can, can mitigate apparently, aside from 10 to 20 grams of creatine, but that's a different story.
- [18:06]
C
10 to 20 grams of creatine will.
- [18:07]
B
Fix everything, aside from your poops.
- [18:10]
A
So since you mentioned, you know, side effects the sleep, lack of sleep creates, actually one of the number one questions asked about leading up to this podcast from our followers on Instagram was, you know, to, to talk a little bit about potential side effects of, of peptides, if there are any. Because again, as I mentioned in the beginning, the subject is being discussed by everyone and we now see, you know, just so many people, you know, experimenting with peptides and yeah, I don't know, maybe they're, they are consulting with ChatGPT and then they make up their own cocktails and they're injecting themselves and you were on the other hand saying like, hey, you got, you know, if you're doing peptides, you gotta work with the professional. So would you say that. Yeah, like, kind of like winging it, just going off of what you see on Instagram could really be you could hurt yourself.
- [19:05]
C
Yeah, I mean, well, at the very least you could be spending a lot of money and not, and not getting anything done at the very least. Right. Best case scenario, you got moved beyond ChatGPT, you've moved into the more medical ones. You've really done your homework. You have some foundational knowledge of health and you might be able to guide yourself. For sure. Like, you know, there are people who can do that.
- [19:27]
B
Yeah.
- [19:27]
C
But for the most part, I think that can peptides have side effects? Of course. They absolutely can. You. They can elicit an immune response. Right. So people can be. And. And here's the best part. You could tolerate a peptide today and in a month's time, your immune system could be. Yeah, you know what? No. And people are so. People are so butthurt by that. They're like, but I don't understand. I've been using it for a month or six weeks. Why. Why all of a sudden I'm like, I don't know, dude. Like, I can't. I can't answer the why. All I can tell you is that your body now and. And it is amazing the lengths to which people will go to keep using a peptide even though they've developed all these crazy, itchy, hot welts all over their body.
- [20:12]
B
Yeah.
- [20:12]
C
And I'm like, you know, if. If you're having an immune response, all those benefits you think you're getting. Actually. No, not happening.
- [20:20]
B
Yeah, I had once. I had it once from Matsi, but. Okay, Nastya, but we were scaring people before. We're giving them the good stuff. Let's take a quick break from this episode to tell you about our new youth Firming body cream. If you're tired of body lotions that just sit on the surface, it's time to upgrade to something that actually works from the inside out on an epigenetic level. Yungoos Youth body Cream isn't just your typical moisturizer. We've powered it with nad Apex, Stelvio spermidine, longevity mushrooms, and ergothioneine and lemongrass extract with lipopeptides. This is a formula that literally reprograms how your skin ages. It restores cellular energy, boosts collagen production, and clears out cellular waste like senescent cells targeting those problem areas like your arms, legs, neck, and decollete, where aging shows up first. Think of it as a biological reset for your entire body scale skin. Because when your skin gets the science it deserves, the results speak for themselves. Ready for your full body upgrade? Visit younggoose.com today and discover what happens when longevity science meets skincare. You can grab the link in the show notes below about you said. You know, first you got to know what you're trying to get out of it. Right, let's talk, you know, longevity as a whole. What would be a. Your starter pack for peptides that are longevity targeting, improving. How would that look like for, for the beginner? If you would.
- [22:20]
C
It would be bioregulators. Yeah, right. It would 100% be. And it would be the natural oral bioregulators because those I have almost. I don't think I've ever seen someone have an allergic reaction to them. They are actually a nutritional supplement because they are extracts from tissues, glands and organs from young animals. Currently, all the oral bioregulators on the market are originate in pigs. So people should know that for a long time they came from cows and over the last number of years that became unsustainably expensive. And so now they're porcine derived. So some people may be running from screen screaming from the room, I apologize, but that's where they're coming from. So. And, and you know, I don't personally eat pig, not even for religious reasons. I think pigs are really smart and I've got my own little issue with pigs here. But they're porcine derived. Their actual extract. Now I will say that by the time you get the material in the little capsule, there's no pig protein left. There's nothing left because pig, pork, incidentally, a lot of people don't know this is one of the most allergenic meats around. So. But there's no pig protein left in that capsule. And so what the bioregulator is doing is it's upregulating your body's code for refreshing, regenerating and rejuvenating those tissues and organs and their function from the inside at a cellular level. That's pretty amazing, right? And they don't boost, they don't suppress, they don't impact particularly. I mean they help with some of them help with oxidative stress, like helping the body to manage oxidative stress. Some of them help with cellular respiration. These are all foundational functions at a cellular level that your body needs to be able to manage that. We know that as we age we get worse at managing. So, so if we can restore that kind of function into the body. And the way I often will describe the bioregulators is if you look at a tire like the tire of a car, and over time the tread on that tire gets thinner and thinner and thinner. Think of the bioregulator as restoring part of the tread on that tire so you don't lose your grip. And you know, and if you Said, okay, so if, you know there's 21 different bioregulators. So if I was going to give a universal stack that is anti aging, if it was completely universal, it would be the pineal gland bioregulate with the thymus gland bioregulator and the blood vessel bioregulator. I'm going to stop there. If you guys want me to go into why each one of these, I'm happy to do that, but pineal, anyway, you tell me.
- [25:10]
A
I do. I do tell you.
- [25:12]
C
All right, so pineal gland. Because the pineal gland is that tiny little pine nut shaped gland in your brain and is actually outside of the brain, I think. And it is responsible for managing circadian rhythm. It helps to reset your circadian rhythm. Amitide beautifully just brought up sleep as the key, the ultimate anti aging, longevity, whatever you want to call it, practice, it helps to restore melatonin production. So melatonin production, we know tanks as we age, melatonin thing, people think of melatonin. Oh yeah, it's that stuff I need to sleep. Well, what people don't realize is melatonin is one of the most powerful antioxidant hormones in the human body. Super important. And for immunity as well. The pineal gland, also through the, through apidalon, which is the pineal gland bioregulator, can activate telomerase, which is an enzyme that helps to restore the length of your telomeres on the ends of your DNA, which allows your cells to replicate more. And also it has an kind of like a global balancing effect on the entire endocrine system. So does this mean that if you take the pineal gland bioregulator, all of your hormones are gonna magically fall into place? No, but, but it is, it does have kind of that global effect. The other thing with the pineal gland bioregulator is it has a lot of benefits for immune function and it even has been shown in certain animal studies to have anti tumorgenic effects. So it's anti cancer.
- [26:49]
B
So interesting. So that's actually. You guys are ruining my entire plan for this flow of questions. Having said that, I had a question prepared. If you view epidalon more as a telomere lengthener or support, whatever you want to call that, or as a circadian rhythm optimizer.
- [27:13]
C
I don't think it's an either or. I think it's both. And I think they go hand in hand. Right. Because we know that every organ in the body has its own circadian rhythm. Circadian rhythm is not as simple as going to bed at the right time and getting up at the right time, it's eating at the right time. It's allowing your body to do what it needs to do. Go ahead.
- [27:34]
B
I tell you why I would, as an extreme human being, why I would want a distinction and that would affect my decision making. It's because a Pitalon can be injected as well, or in an IV or whatever that is, or orally. And this would be very different than taking it orally as far as like stacking it or basically like how long you're going to be using that where injectable or IV is going to be something you would do for maybe like on and off. If you were, if you correct me if I'm wrong, if you would want it as a, as a circadian rhythm optimizer, that's something you would want to take orally and more often you still want to cycle.
- [28:11]
C
You're still going to cycle on and off. Like, don't forget that what the bioregulator in theory does is it restores function.
- [28:18]
B
Yeah.
- [28:18]
C
Right. So if it's restoring function, you don't have to. It's kind of like, it's kind of like if your young child comes to you and says, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom. At first it's going to drive you. At first you might give them attention, eventually it might drive you crazy. But actually from a pure survival perspective, at some point you're gonna start to tune them out. Yeah. Right. So, you know, it's, it's a, it's a sim. Oversimplified analogy, of course, but with the bioregulators, the way that they're used or the way that they were used in research in, in Russia is, was in pulses. And some of those pulses might have been longer, but they weren't used like cry. It's not like your vitamin C that you're going to take every day because you can't make vitamin C. Yeah. You don't need to make epidylite.
- [29:06]
A
Yeah. And that's such a good point because I think again, you know, if you work with experienced professional or guide, then they would tell you, you know, okay, you, you use this and that peptide for that long and then you cycle off and on and then on your own, you, you just might not know it. And then what if you didn't develop immune response and you just, you know, I don't, I don't know that you.
- [29:30]
C
Develop an immune response. I'm not even sure that there's, that there's. I Don't. I haven't seen anything that says that there'd be a negative. I just don't think it's necessary. And I. And. And we don't know. Right. The only, the only peptide that kind of, that I've seen enough literature on that kind of defies that would be GHK copper. And the reason for that is because if you look at the levels of GHK copper in our plasma when we're young versus when we're older, it's light and day, like it tanks. Right? So we're at 200. I just don't remember. The reason I'm not throwing numbers around is I don't remember the units, but whatever. 200 units per liter in the blood when you're youthful and when you have this magical ability to repair and restore and you know, like my brother, when he was in his early 20s in Florida, actually, he had. He used to clean pavers and he was putting gasoline into the machine one day and it exploded in his face. And he ended up. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it's beautiful. So he ended up with second and third degree burns all over his face. And you would think that he would have been scarred for life. He hasn't got a single scar on his face, and that's because it happened when he was 20. Had it happened when he was 50, he'd be scarred for life. And which isn't to say that burns can't scar people for life, even when they're kids if they're bad enough. But your body has an ability to heal in your youth that doesn't even get touched that you can't touch in your older years. GHK copper, I would say probably there's a use case and an argument for using that one in some way, shape or form ongoingly, because what you're trying to do is restore your levels of ghk. So you talk to someone like Liz Parrish, who is all about gene therapy. So she's in about. She's all about, can we flip genes back on that, produce things that we want so that they. They're on all the time. Maybe someday she'll get to the GHK genes.
- [31:31]
B
Right?
- [31:32]
A
But, you know, we, we mentioned epitalon, we mentioned ghkcu, and there is. And we mentioned stacking and beginner stacking.
- [31:40]
B
I do want to. I do want to say something. My opinion about ghkcu.
- [31:44]
C
Yes, sure, tell us, because.
- [31:47]
B
So here's when we've had discussions about that before. GHKC is very complex. And yes, it does work on epigenetic expression for the most part, but there is docking there as well. There is receptor occupation there as well. And a few things that I think the reason that if you were to do it injectable wise, you would want to pulse it is because of that kind of a side quest of GHKCU where it does. I'll give you just an example. There is receptor, it's called receptor mediated effects. One of them is FGFR and the other one is TGF beta. And both of those, from what I know and from the research that I've read, those can get, there is attenuation of like what you said about the mama, mama, mama. So I think maybe like in five, 10 years, whoever is going to get into that research is going to say, no, no, no, the effects, the other effects are significantly more important and there is mitigation there. But I do think for now, if people are injecting it rather than using it topically, that it should be pulsed when you use it topically.
- [33:09]
C
Yeah, I mean, look, we're fighting, you know, it's interesting, I think, that when we look at the natural decline of different compounds in the human body as we age, for the most part, it's part of what's driving aging and decline. Right. Like, for example, hormones. Now, does that mean that we want to restore our hormones post reproductive years back to where we were when we were 20? Probably not. Because unless you can mitigate all of the DNA damage that you're also accumulating, you don't want your growth hormone as high in your 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s as it was when you were 30. As fun as it would be, you'd be running the risk of growing things you don't want to be growing. Right. So we do need. And so maybe with GHK to your point, Amitai, there's a case, there's an argument that says, yeah, you had tons of it when you were younger, but that was a different time in a different place. Maybe as we age, it's smarter to use it in whether it's a month on a month off or two months on, two months off, whatever that cycle is. We don't know. We don't have those trials, we don't have that research. So is there an argument that says, you know, the scenario has changed? Like the we now are dealing with a different entity. It's still a human body, but it's a human body that's lived a life and it has different elements involved here that are gonna respond differently than it would have in youth. So, and this is where I think with peptides we get into trouble because we try to oversimplify and we're all trying to kind of think, wow, like if it can do this, this, this, this and this. Holy shit, like there's no, nothing bad could possibly happen. Well, if there's one thing we should know is that we don't know what we don't know. We need to be a little bit cautious and at least use our heads and have a measure, have a measured approach.
- [35:08]
A
Yeah, it kind of sort of reminds me like it's of course very different, but still like 20 years ago everybody was doing fillers because it's just hyaluronic acid and it goes, that'll be amazing. What's the worst can happen? And now 20 years later we know that, oh, it's actually morphs in your body, doesn't really leave, it blocks the lymph nodes. And there are so many downsides to it. So it, you know, again, it's very different. But still, like to your point, everybody's doing peptides these days and there are some things we don't know. Just, you know, kind of proceed with caution.
- [35:43]
B
I agree, I agree. And actually I saw like a dermatologist like the other day on Instagram now talking about perception drift, which is like people doing like getting used to how they look like with fillers and then they want more. But since these guys, these people, she's, whatever. These people are still like in the paradigm that some, some fillers are good, they're making money off of fillers, et cetera. She doesn't mention the other effects that are, you know, negative. She's like, oh, we know that it stays longer in your tissue. Yeah. You're not mentioning the fact that it morphs into your tissue, that it lowers vascularization and lymphatic flow.
- [36:24]
C
It's gonna age you.
- [36:25]
B
And you are again, like, you're basically creating a sound bite to stay, you know, keep up with the Joneses, but you're not providing the real service facts that you are perceived to provide.
- [36:41]
C
Yeah, I think like if you look at the trends and if you look at the real leaders in facial rejuvenation, which is, I don't like to call it plastic surgery anymore. I call it, you know, when it's the anti aging stuff, it's the facial rejuvenation. Plastic surgery is when half your face been burnt off and it needs to be rebuilt. But in the facial rejuvenation space, I mean, unfortunately, these People tend to be wildly expensive, but these are the guys that are doing the fat transfer with the stem cells. They're using your own material. They're using nature's materials to restore some degree of. Of. Of plumpness and whatnot. They're addressing, like, I just watched. I know. You've had him on your podcast. I had him on my podcast. Cameron Chestnut, talking about the lower facelift the other day. And, you know, but. And I've always thought, oh, you know, maybe I should just do that. Like, I. You know, maybe just because it's the jowl thing, right. I want to get rid of those. And by the time he was done, I was like, fuck, there goes that. Right? Because the truth of the matter is that if you don't address the whole thing, then there's gonna be consequences. Right? So he's like, yeah, you pull that up and then this thing. There's a muscle here that goes there, and then all this stuff falls, keeps falling down, and then you've got the pouch. And I'm like, oh, so basically I've just moved my jowl up into my cheek. That's not gonna work.
- [38:00]
B
Yeah. Okay. I do have stuff that we. That I wanna cover.
- [38:06]
C
Okay, Well, I.
- [38:08]
A
Since we started talking about, like, that there are bioregulators and there are signaling peptides, and then we're still kind of like wrapping up the beginner, you know, feedback. So would you recommend beginning with regenerative peptides like VPC157 or with signaling peptides like epitalone? We kind of touched on both a little bit. But if I'm beginning.
- [38:30]
C
So if I. If you were a total beginner, I would. And you didn't know anything about anything, I would start with the bioregulators. Right. The BPC157 is really interesting because one of the things that we talked about earlier, that whole gut health. BPC157 is a rock star at helping to heal the gut. Right?
- [38:50]
B
It comes from the gut.
- [38:52]
C
Exactly. It comes from the gut. And so if you knew nothing about nothing, what's cool about BPC157 is it seems to help to lower inflammation. It helps to heal the gut, it helps to heal tissues, which is why so many people are like, oh, well, if it. If it can fix my tendons and my ligaments and my sore shoulder and my sore back, surely it's gonna be great for my skin, which we can talk about later. But BPC157 is so foundational in all of the benefits that it has. For the body, it could be a beginner peptide, but.
- [39:24]
B
But.
- [39:25]
C
Right, but there's a small percentage of people that don't react well to BPC157. You know, for, for reasons as of yet unfully not fully elucidated. There's a small percentage of the population that gets very anxious or angry or they can't sleep or they lose their. They become, they. They suffer from anhedonia where they just don't give a shit anymore, which maybe that's what's happening in the world these days, but maybe everyone's on BTC157.
- [39:53]
A
Listen, I was gonna be like, with skincare, how do you know the product works or doesn't? Like, before you fully put it all over your face, you patch test like behind your ear. And I was going to be like, how do you patch test a peptide to see.
- [40:05]
C
So, so with a BPC one. So with any peptide. And this is one of the. I'm actually going to be doing a talk at the end of the month in Europe and one of the theme, the topic they've given me is Peptides do's and don'ts. And one of the big don'ts about peptides is get your peptide from your best friend who used it for X, Y, Z and go at it with a full dose right out of the gate. Yeah, you start, you. You do like a little baby bit and you. And guess what? You don't then run around a million miles an hour for the rest of the day and then start again the next day. You make a note. How do I feel today? How do I. You. You pay attention. Because what I see happening in those and, and not to scare people off bpc and not to scare people off bpc. Cause it is. Even as an oral peptide, it is magical. But understand that you're now dealing with compounds that are so powerful that you're using 1/10 or 2/10 of a milligram, like the teensiest little amounts. And it's having global healing effects in your body. So if it can have global good effects in your body, if things go sideways for any reason, it's the same thing, right? So do a test, pay attention, start low and slow. Once you build up to the dose, which hopefully you have an understanding. And you're not that person who just gets excited and buys a vial of something and then puts it up in a Facebook group and says, I just bought this. What do I do with it now?
- [41:37]
B
No, this should actually be a Facebook group named I just bought this. What Do I do with this now? Yeah. And it could be about anything. It could be a vacuum, it could.
- [41:48]
C
Be whatever good group.
- [41:51]
B
So would you, would you say, you know, and we touched about TB500, which I would described as the TB500 of, of more rigid things, right? Like BPC157 is for softer connective tissue and TB500 is for a little bit denser connective. Connective tissue like ligaments or cartilage.
- [42:13]
C
They both do. And VPC can even help with bone healing. But because there's cartilage in bones, right? Like, I mean there's collagen in bone, there's all that stuff. But TB500, which by the way is a smaller fragment of thymosin beta 4. Thymosin beta 4 has the word thymus in it. This is a thymus peptide. It comes from your thymus gland originally. And so it actually has really powerful immune actions. And the thing that people often, you know, that's kind of gotten lost over time is thymus. And beta 4 has seven different arms. And each one of those arms is a different docking site. And so what's happened is now people have done, you're going to see, you're going to see both in the injectable world and in the oral world, you're going to see further fragments of TB4. And those, some of those fragments are really magical for the heart. Some of them prevent fibrosis. So it's really good for healing of scars, for example, or there's a possibility that it might be helpful for lungs with fibrosis. So as people drill into these things, we're starting to learn that. And thymosin beta 4, I would say is probably just as magical as BPC157, just in slightly different ways. Because guess what, BPC157 is also good for the heart and the kidneys and the liver and the pancreas. Why? Because BPC stands for Body Protective compound. And so it has global effects. Now if somebody from the FDA is listening to this, they're gonna be like, oh, she's selling injectable peptides. BPC157 is not legal. And it's actually the injectable PPC is not. Because the powers that be believe that it has not been well researched enough for people to just be using it willy nilly all over the place. The amazing thing about bpc, I think, is that not only is it available, bioavailable to the body by injection, but it actually can also be taken orally. And you know, I'VE always said it's never going to be as powerful orally for soft tissue issues as it would be by injection. But you know, my parents recently took a supplement, like an oral supplement that had bpc, kpv. And we can talk about a couple of these if you want. Bpc, kpv, Lorazotide, GHK and a whole bunch of other stuff, which was more of the building materials to your point. Amitai. And it's a gut healing supplement. And I gave it to them because they're in their 80s and they've never done a gut healing protocol. I'm like, you know, you could probably use this, Right. My mother's had a few little things and my dad's got a few. Well, three weeks later I get a call from my mother going, we need more of that stuff. Now if you know me, you know that my parents get a lot of stuff from me and they never really know exactly what it is. Sometimes they do, but a lot of times they don't. And she goes, we need more of that stuff. And I'm like, well which stuff? Can you send me a screenshot so I know what we're talking about and why? And she said, well, my shoulders stopped hurting and your father's back stopped hurting. Now this is not necessarily common. Right. But between bpc, I believe that this is a combination of reasons why the BPC157 and the KPV both have anti inflammatory effects.
- [45:36]
B
Yeah.
- [45:36]
C
So if we're able to lower their inflammation, we're winning. The other thing is that because it has bpc, lorazotide and JHK and kpv, it's going to help to heal their gut. Well, if your gut starts to seal up again, you no longer have lps, all this lipopolysaccharides that are driving inflammation in the body traveling into your system, your immune system can start to calm down a little bit and all of a sudden systemically you have less inflammation and that's going to help to make things hurt less. And maybe your body now has more resources to say, oh, we need to fix that.
- [46:15]
B
And by the way, I think that would be applied also obviously the skin, obviously to things that are, that are, you know, inflammation in the skin. There's this gut skin axis glow, etc and by the way, glow specifically. And I can. The reason is, is because injury and inflammation drives mitochondrial dysfunction.
- [46:37]
C
Yep.
- [46:37]
B
And mitochondrial dysfunction or the mitochondria in its proper function is what kind of imbues glow on the skin and vice versa. If it's malfunctioning, there's less glow. But I would say also in the case of acne, any type of acne, adult, whatever, a lot of it is an immune response to the presence of bacteria rather than the. The bacteria. There is a study out of Crown showing that people who have a tendency to react to p Acne bacteria will react to a thousand thousandth of a dose to those who do not have a tendency to react to p Acne bacteria. Interesting. So I think you get my point. Yeah.
- [47:25]
C
So it's a hyper. So it's Our immune system's hypersensitive. Like it's overreactive.
- [47:30]
B
Your. Your immune system is the main driver of the appearance of acne rather than the presence of p. Acne bacteria.
- [47:38]
A
I like that. I think.
- [47:43]
B
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- [49:29]
A
So because we are getting closer to the time you see, I told you.
- [49:33]
B
Natalie, we didn't get anywhere and we.
- [49:36]
A
Got to do serious. I think we should. I know. We plan to talk about senolytics and cellular cleanup, as well as autophagy and nad synergy. I'm not sure we have the time to go talk about both. Which one should we talk about?
- [49:49]
B
What I think we should do is we choose one more subject. We need to talk about growth Hormones. Because in my opinion, it's within the framework of repair and regeneration, which we've talked about BPC157 and TB500. And let's talk about Epitalon and NAD a little bit more since we've gone into that. That subject and we're going to save the rest. Okay, so let me preface something. A lot of, you know, a lot of what we do at Yungo, for example, and a lot of what you're going to do in the framework of taking peptides is going to be to optimize the response for other stimuli. For example, microneedling, which you thing mentioned off air and, or, you know, the, the presence or the exposure to UV and blue light or you know, or even taking, you know, retinol. All, all of those ST regulation, either positive or negative, our body now needs to respond to in the most optimal way. And that's how we either stave off the signs of aging or reverse the apparent signs of aging. Right. So that's why I think it's important to. Or to talk about, you know, regeneration and repair in the framework of consuming or using peptides. So we talked about BPC, BPC157 and TB500. As you mentioned, they both support collagen production to the extent. By the way, this is something. I'm just going to mention it. There are doctors who already offer BPC157 injections as part of a cosmetic procedure, which is a little bit of stupid. I'm going to keep it PG dumb AF idea, since this is something that you need to use continuously for six weeks until it builds in your system to be effective. So one time when you go to your, to your practitioner like once a month to get a facial, you're gonna do exactly zero or, I don't know, about zero, but close to zero.
- [51:55]
C
Well, the only thing, the other thing is that you know, when you're doing a facial, if you're doing micro needling, for example, and this goes back to something you brought up at the very beginning of the podcast, you need a bit of an inflammatory response.
- [52:07]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
- [52:08]
C
To get the benefits of the microneedling, that initial inflammation is necessary in order for the body to come in and do the repair that's going to hopefully upregulate your collagen and elastin and all the things. So it's, I mean, look, I'm open to the possibility that, that the very real possibility that they know something. I don't know because there's so many Things I don't know. But, but at face value, as you're saying, it's counterintuitive because BPC is not a one and done thing and it's anti inflammatory. So right there I think it might be cross purposes for what we're looking for.
- [52:48]
B
Let's talk a little bit about growth hormone secretagogues. Let's talk about the other aspect of repair and regeneration which is supporting growth hormone, which I think is another kind of holy grail for people who pass 35, 40, 50. As far as what's going on now in the market, I think it's important to talk about.
- [53:07]
A
So, so the, for the growth hormone secretagogues, do you know of evidence showing improvements in markers like skin thickness, insulin sensitivity, mitochondrial function?
- [53:19]
C
I'm gonna say that I'm not fully up on my literature on that one, but what I can tell you people definitely report, I mean, you know, here's the thing. Growth hormone repairs things. It helps your body to repair and restore. The thing with growth hormone secreted and growth hormone in general, it's a double edged sword. Yeah, right. Even when it comes to insulin sensitivity because if you use too much you actually will become insulin resistant. That's one of the hallmarks of growth hormone. And so, and you know, maybe this is, this is me being a bitter Betty. I can't use growth hormones secretagox because I'm allergic to them.
- [53:59]
B
Wow.
- [54:00]
C
And it's actually very, it's one of the most common immune responses that I see is to growth hormone secretagox. And, and I don't know why that is because it doesn't actually make that much sense. But, but very often people can't just don't tolerate their immune system mounts an immune response and within, you know, sometimes it's immediate, sometimes they get, their blood pressure goes up because it can cause a transient increase in blood pressure. But for some people that transient increase doesn't, doesn't transient doesn't exit stage left, it just stays. So you have to be mindful. The growth hormone secretagues are one of the peptides that I think you have to be the most cautious with because growth hormone as we know it can be, it is definitely, it tanks as we age. So it impacts our ability to heal and to restore and, and all the good things they're. The growth hormone secretags also seem to have a benefit for building muscle and, and lipolysis like the burning of fat. And I would say that just as there are people that, that tend to be allergic to it, there's Also people that are very high responders. So people who start using this stuff at very low dose and all of a sudden they're like, oh my God. After three weeks they're like, oh my God, I can see my six pack abs. And you know, some of us have never met our six pack abs, but you know, I have six pack abs and I'm killing it at the gym. And this, that and the other thing. And oh, and by the way, I'm glowing. Well, are you? Oh, and I'm sleeping like a baby. Because it can help with sleep. Well, is it the sleep or is it like, what is it that's doing this? I don't know that the thickening of the skin is particularly a thing, but maybe there's literature on that. So I'm not gonna weigh in too much. I know that people feel that their skin looks better when they're using the growth hormone. Secretagogues. You just, with growth hormone, I just feel like you really have to have your wits about you. You have to be the kind of people that are getting regular blood work done. And I don't mean like every month, like even every six months. Right. Like keeping an eye on the ball, making sure that your inflammation's under control, that you're overall healthy and in good shape because growth hormone will grow anything.
- [56:17]
A
Yeah. Like you mentioned. And you don't want to grow like cancerous cells or anything.
- [56:21]
C
And I mean, I spoke to someone the other day who was talking about excess growth hormone in the body. In the presence of a cancer, if your immune system is not, for whatever reason, isn't as vigilant as it needs to be, it can really accelerate that cancer. So again, not to put the fear of God into everybody here because there are lots of people using these compounds and doing really well with them. But just to say don't be. What I see with peptides is people are flippant. They're like, oh, this is natural. Oh, this comes from my body. Right. Like my body makes this. You're make no mistake, you're mucking around with your system right now. You are bringing things in at a higher level than they're naturally occurring. And, and I'm not saying that there's not benefits to it because very often there's very powerful benefits. And there are some really incredible functional medicine doctors out there that are doing incredible work healing people, moving the needle for people, doing all those things. But don't be casual about it.
- [57:23]
B
I love it. I love it. And I think it's so correct. So correct. And you know the old adage, I mean, first of all, I remind people that before biohacking, the word was self. Self quantification, right?
- [57:36]
C
Oh, right. Yeah. And I like that better.
- [57:40]
B
The reason I'm saying it is because there is an adage right now that you can't change what you can't measure. Maybe it should be you shouldn't attempt to change what you're not measuring 100%.
- [57:53]
C
100%. I couldn't agree with you more.
- [57:55]
A
Yeah, I think this is a great segue to some fire questions. Rapid fire questions.
- [57:59]
B
We're doing that. Fire questions.
- [58:01]
A
Rapid fire questions.
- [58:02]
B
Yeah, let's do that. Okay, so we're going to keep the other like, very subjects that we have for the next. I feel like we're going to do as many as we need to get through everything because we have a lot to get through, but yeah.
- [58:18]
A
Okay, so what's the biggest mistake people make when jumping into peptides for skin health?
- [58:24]
C
Not addressing the inside first.
- [58:26]
A
Love it.
- [58:28]
B
What? Trending Biohack is actually delivering results either to the skin or not. And not just. You would say, not just like a viral thing.
- [58:37]
C
Well, okay, so the one I was going to say isn't actually trending, so. Because nobody knows about it yet.
- [58:42]
B
Go for it.
- [58:42]
A
Go for it.
- [58:44]
C
Well, the thing I think that's going to be really, really interesting is going to be the work. The microneedling with your own secret home that a company that you guys know that I'm sure you. If you haven't had them on yet, you will.
- [58:57]
A
We have a date set. Yeah, they're coming to the studio.
- [58:59]
C
Like Drew Taylor from Acorn Biolabs, who kind of made this revolutionary discovery that in your hair follicles there are stem cells and fibroblasts and. Gross factors. Growth factors, not gross factors.
- [59:12]
B
They're pretty gross, though, if you look at it.
- [59:14]
C
It's kind of gross. No, it's not gross. It's your own stuff. That's why it's not gross. Right. And so there's this magic soup of regenerative material in the hair follicles and that it can now be used to generate your own secretome to reapply to the face and to the hair and possibly to other parts of the body. We don't know yet. They're still doing that work through microneedling and deliver a certain degree of regeneration. So I'm on month one month. We'll see in six months. You know what is possible, Matt?
- [59:50]
B
I'm just gonna say I'm gonna trademark the Phrase Magical soup of general soup me out. That's gonna be the next product that we're gonna.
- [60:00]
C
Nat's Magic Soup. As it turns out, I think bone broth is pretty amazing anyway, but it's not trending yet. But I think that this, this is going to be really incredible because it is literally your own product. So now if you're doing the work every single day of feeding the skin cells, of getting rid of the dead stuff, of doing all the things we need to do, because you're using your Young Goose products as you're supposed to every single day, you're keep. Like, to me, the way I think of Young Goose is not only is it keeping me looking good today, but it's buying me time. Right. If I ever did, which I don't know that I will, but if I ever did have facial reconstruction done, the better my skin is going to be, the better results I'm going to have.
- [60:47]
A
And I love that.
- [60:48]
B
Yes, I agree.
- [60:50]
A
Okay. What's your opinion on Botox?
- [60:53]
C
So I don't do Botox. I used to. I'm very cautious with it. I think that less is more. I think for people who use it. Everything I've learned, because I'm not an expert on Botox, everything I've learned about Botox is that if you use small amounts strategically in the right places, it can be useful. I'm still not fully comfortable with the whole thing personally, so I still think that it's a toxin. It's awfully close to my brain, and I need my brain. I plan on using my brain for a really long time.
- [61:25]
A
So I love that answer.
- [61:29]
B
Last one.
- [61:29]
A
Yes.
- [61:31]
B
What are your top three favorite hacks for skin health right now?
- [61:38]
C
I love for my top three favorite hacks. So one of them, people might notice that I'm glowing red at the moment, right? I'm going red because I have a little red and infrared light tablet on my desk. Now, am I using that red and infrared light tablet on my desk because I think that it's stimulating collagen production? No, but what do I. What am I hoping that it's doing? I'm hoping that it's mitigating the negative effects of the artificial blue light that's coming off my computer. So that is like my most recent most favorite skin hack. And it goes without saying that of course my Young Goose products are my most favorite skin hack. But aside from those, which is a given. So my red light on my desk, I. I mean, I. I'm going to be boring, right? But I have A lifetime of being fairly dehydrated, staying hydrated, and using essential minerals. So something like bean minerals with fulvic and humic acid, like whatever your essential minerals are, that I think is one of the most foundational things you can do for your. For your skin. And then the third one is going to be what we talked about today is, is making sure that the gut integrity is good, gut inflammation is down, like really kind of paying attention to what's happening on the inside because that's what's going to. That's ultimately what's going to make a big, big difference. It's going to even make a difference in how you age, like how fast you're aging. Right. And if I can get a fourth one for pro tip is. Is prioritize sleep.
- [63:11]
B
Amazing. I love it.
- [63:12]
A
I love it.
- [63:13]
B
First of all, I think B Minerals is the most shouted out brand.
- [63:19]
C
Is it?
- [63:19]
B
On the show.
- [63:20]
A
Oh, I love Carl and I love the founder and I love. Yes, I love the product and I love the people behind the product.
- [63:26]
B
Correct. Yes.
- [63:27]
A
Which is the best combination.
- [63:28]
B
And by the way, I like their. Their pill version. I take it at night. Legit.
- [63:34]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [63:35]
B
I would say that we. We might or might not work with Microbiome Labs on a product that will, you know, target upgrade the gut skin access.
- [63:46]
C
We should, I mean, like, there's specific. Takes a long time, right? Yeah, yeah.
- [63:50]
A
Little teaser.
- [63:52]
B
Yeah. But if you got until now in the pod, you deserve a little teaser.
- [63:57]
A
Anyway, Natalie, it's been such a pleasure. You are just wealth of knowledge, our.
- [64:03]
B
Favorite person in longevity, that's for sure.
- [64:07]
C
Well, you guys are my favorite, so I think the feeling is mutual. So thank you so much for having me.
- [64:13]
A
Thank you for making the time. And please make the time for part two, maybe even part three, but at.
- [64:17]
C
Least part two until we finish the whole thing.
- [64:22]
B
Okay, thank you, everyone.
- [64:24]
A
Bye.
- [64:45]
B
Okay, that was. That was really nice. That was. We definitely. We're gonna definitely do at least. At least part two. Yeah.
- [64:54]
A
I loved our conversation, but we had so much more planned and there is only so little time. And so, guys, I hope you enjoyed today's conversation. Just know that in part two, we're gonna go deeper into peptides, specifically for skin health and different kind of stocks and protocols now that you've been briefed on. Kind of like the beginner. Information is very vital before we go into deeper conversation.
- [65:20]
B
Amen. If you liked the podcast, we urge you to subscribe.
- [65:26]
A
Leave a comment Leave a review Those really help us reach listeners like you and bring you better guests each time.
- [65:34]
B
All right? So thank you very much, everyone, and we'll see you here next time.
- [65:38]
A
Thank you. Bye.
- [65:41]
C
It.