Caitlin Clark (11:04)

In person in Seattle?

Sue Bird (11:06)

Right.

Caitlin Clark (11:06)

Or was it a different time?

Sue Bird (11:08)

Oh, no, that was the first time. Do you remember the second time we met?

Caitlin Clark (11:11)

You don't even remember the second time we met?

Sue Bird (11:15)

Yeah, second time you came on my show.

Caitlin Clark (11:21)

You came on Sea's Places. Oh, yes. But we met before that.

Sue Bird (11:23)

Yeah, we had met before that. My bad.

Caitlin Clark (11:25)

So I guess I'm not memorable.

Sue Bird (11:27)

Yeah, my bad.

Caitlin Clark (11:28)

Whatever.

Sue Bird (11:28)

Yeah, good point.

Caitlin Clark (11:29)

And you came to the game, and that was a big win.

Sue Bird (11:31)

Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (11:31)

Guess it wasn't a memorable win for you, but whatever.

Sue Bird (11:33)

That wasn't a big win. You guys played, like, Bowling Green or somebody.

Caitlin Clark (11:36)

No.

Sue Bird (11:37)

Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (11:37)

No, the first time I'm saying it in Seattle, weren't You at the game?

Sue Bird (11:40)

We're gonna get to that in a second.

Caitlin Clark (11:41)

Okay. Sorry.

Sue Bird (11:42)

Stay with me on Sue's Places.

Caitlin Clark (11:43)

My bad.

Sue Bird (11:43)

Honestly, you wanna know my favorite part about going to Iowa? Like I said, you helped film Seuss Places. Thank you for that. After the game, so I was able to stick around, catch a game. So actually, that was poor Bowling Green. Yeah, poor Bowling Green. That was your senior year. Yeah. So that was the second time I'm seeing you in person. God, now I have my ears mixed up. Now we're on point. This is my favorite part of that story.

Caitlin Clark (12:10)

Oh, gosh.

Sue Bird (12:11)

We go out to dinner after the game.

Caitlin Clark (12:13)

Yes.

Sue Bird (12:13)

So I'm with Jason, I'm with Ezra, with Jason's friend Terry, and somehow gets communicated to us that we're going to a place called Pasta.

Caitlin Clark (12:20)

No Pasta.

Sue Bird (12:23)

I know. Oh, it's this Italian place. And it was like, you know what? Of course the Italian place in Iowa is called Pasta.

Caitlin Clark (12:31)

We're more creative than that.

Sue Bird (12:32)

We were literally clowning. You don't have to be that close if you don't want, by the way.

Caitlin Clark (12:35)

Thank God. Okay, so you can pick up my voice from Accu. Whatever you want.

Sue Bird (12:39)

You can chill. I feel like you're eating it. So that was like my favorite part of the story. My other favorite part is that part of the Seuss Places was that we were shooting threes. And I remember I went home. Not went home. I went back that night and I was like, megan, I was on fire. Thank God you were.

Caitlin Clark (12:56)

I remember that.

Sue Bird (12:57)

I was like.

Caitlin Clark (12:57)

And I was rebounding first day back.

Sue Bird (12:59)

That was like, first day back, like, good vibes. But the other thing I remember was watching you play. So that was even though I'd seen you play in Seattle during the NCAA tournament, I was like, courtside. So now I'm seeing you, like, up close.

Caitlin Clark (13:12)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (13:12)

And what I remember was just like, you didn't shoot the ball that well.

Caitlin Clark (13:15)

I didn't. I was about to say that I didn't shoot it well at all.

Sue Bird (13:17)

You didn't shoot that well. But, like, your size, like, your handles, your strength, like, these were all things that. That really stuck out. And I'm gonna go on a limb and soon that growing up with brothers, playing against boys had an impact on your career. But the one thing about going to dinner was I actually got to see and experience you with your family. So I'm just curious, like, just to start out, like, what impact has having, like that tight knit group had on your career so far?

Caitlin Clark (13:44)

Yeah. So I grew up with an older brother And a younger brother. And I had a big Italian family, so I had a lot of cousins. And all the boy cousins were my age, and all the girl cousins were, like, older. So I always was stuck with all the boy cousins. And at family holidays, like, we would always be playing games. We were always out in the front driveway shooting hoops. Even, like, Easter egg hunts on Easter, somehow I would always end up with the least amount of eggs. And I would be crying. I would be in tears, and I would go crying to my mom, and my mom would always be like, I'm not helping you. You gotta figure out a way to hold your own. And I was that annoying little cousin that always wanted to hang out with the older cousins and the boys. And honestly, I kind of just got bullied. But they're now my biggest fans. They come to all my games, and they're honestly my best friends. And people always joke like, you have a million cousins. And I'm like, I really do. But those are my best friends and my people, and they ride for me. They're just very loyal. And even my brothers, too, we grew up fighting and picking on each other. But they're two of my biggest fans, if not the biggest fans aside from my parents. And, you know, I'm just very thankful for that because not everybody has that, so. And both my brothers play basketball in high school. People always ask them if they can beat me one on one, and they always say yes, but they know deep down that that's not true. It's actually hilarious because both my brothers did not have much offensive skill, and they were, like defensive stoppers. Like, they were picking up full court. Like, they loved defense. They were aggressive.

Sue Bird (15:13)

Yes.

Caitlin Clark (15:14)

So we were, like, opposite. But, yeah, they like to think they can guard me, but they can't.

Sue Bird (15:20)

One of the things you talked about again on Sue's Places was. Cause I asked you about, like, your shooting and your form and all that stuff. And I know your dad was, like, a big part of that. Coached you young, helped you with your form, wouldn't let you shoot threes even though you wanted to. Didn't want you to mess things up. It sounds like your mom. I was gonna make some dumb joke about, does your mom get credit for your passing? But it sounds like your mom.

Caitlin Clark (15:41)

My mom's definitely the competitive side of my family.

Sue Bird (15:43)

Okay, Sounds like your mom.

Caitlin Clark (15:44)

My mom's dad was a high school football coach. And, like, a bunch of my mom's siblings played sports and all of that, but my mom is definitely, like, the feisty, like, super Competitive. Not that my dad wasn't. My dad played basketball and baseball in college. But everybody that meets my dad is like, your dad is so chill. He's just such a chill guy and relaxed, and he really is. But when he was playing, he had that same competitive spirit. And even his high school coach, who comes to a lot of my games, or did when I was in high school and college, and even now, he's like, man, I see so much of your dad and you. But my dad is just very chill now. My mom is definitely the really feisty one. And that sit next to my mom at games are like, man, she's so into it and so competitive. But like, sports have always been a big part of, you know, not only my life, but my parents life growing up. Like, that's all, you know, like, you know, sports and like, winning is what you wanted to do. And, you know, I definitely get probably the competitive, really competitive, fiery aspect from my mom's side.

Sue Bird (16:38)

All right, another thing you said. God, Sue's place is getting a lot of love here. But another thing you said was, like, the deep three, the logo three as we know it today, like, came when you got to college, got stronger. But you were like. But I always had a step back.

Caitlin Clark (16:51)

I did always have to step by step.

Sue Bird (16:52)

So where does that come from? Like, were you mimicking? Did it just come naturally?

Caitlin Clark (16:57)

I think it just, like, kind of came naturally. I don't know. It's kind of hard to put my finger on. Honestly. I grew up like a basketball junkie, so I think, like, even if you're not, like, intentionally, like, watching and like, paying attention to Cosmosis, yeah, you're just like, absorbing what you're consuming. And I think, like, I always watch Steph or even Jimmer, like, who I love. Like, I told Jimmer this, like, when we were doing Sue's places. Like, he was one of my favorite players growing up. And there was the famous song Teach Me how to Gymer. And I had this shirt that said Teach me how to Gymmer. If you haven't seen it, look it up on YouTube. It's a teach Me how to Dougie remix. It's a Teach me how to Gymer. It's hilarious.

Sue Bird (17:33)

Look at that thing signed.

Caitlin Clark (17:34)

I know. I don't think I have the shirt anymore.

Sue Bird (17:37)

Oh, my God.

Caitlin Clark (17:38)

Yeah. But I think it's just from how much I watched basketball. Even high school basketball, the college basketball, and then obviously professionally, I just loved being around the game and I think it just kind of came with some of that.

Sue Bird (17:48)

Yeah, so eventually you do incorporate, like, the range that goes with the step back that goes with your shooting. Was that something like, that came out of necessity or was it something that maybe somebody saw and, like, talked to you about or. It sounds like. I feel like the look on your face is, did it come naturally?

Caitlin Clark (18:09)

I think it just came naturally. Yeah. I also think in college or in high school, at the time, my high school court was a lot smaller than, like, the college court. We hadn't, like, some high schools in Iowa had started to get the college size courts, but we were still playing on the high school size court. So I started scooting back from the high school three point line, which now, like, if I go and shoot on a court and it's like I scoot up to like, the high school three point line, I'm like, it's like a free throw. Like, it's. I'm like, how did I ever, like, shoot from here and think it was far? Yeah, literally. Exactly. And honestly, I think it just kind of came naturally. I think also the way people began to guard me, like, it's just like a natural reaction, like, back up, because, like, then they wouldn't keep coming closer to me and then I was able to shoot from there. So I think it was probably half and half, just like naturally of getting stronger, being confident in myself and my shot over time, and then just how people were, you know, guarding me, especially when I got into college and like, after freshman year of college, especially.

Sue Bird (19:05)

Yeah. So you famously, if you will, choose Iowa.

Caitlin Clark (19:09)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (19:10)

Famous because you committed to Notre Dame. Committed, right. Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (19:13)

On the low.

Sue Bird (19:14)

On the low. Committed to low.

Caitlin Clark (19:15)

On the low.

Sue Bird (19:16)

But famous because you're an Iowa kid, it was really important to you to help take the program, like, back to Final Fours.

Caitlin Clark (19:22)

It hadn't been to one since, like, the early1992. Yeah. When Steve Stringer was there. Yeah.

Sue Bird (19:28)

So you choose Iowa. What is it about, like, Lisa Bluder, her staff that allowed you to, like, flourish?

Caitlin Clark (19:36)

Yeah, I think so. I first got there during COVID and that whole year is a little blurry to me just because it was just so different and so weird. But I think, like, just her belief in me from day one when I stepped on campus, like, she gave me the keys to, you know, the offense, really, the program, and, like, always had a constant belief in, you know, what I could do and what I could help us achieve. And I remember, like, some of my first summer practices, like, I played pretty well. And there was, like, you know, there's the classic like, golf outing, like, where you're. And at the time, we didn't have to go, but my dad was playing, and it was like, a fundraiser for our foreign trip. And Coach Bluder was, like. Had gone up to my dad and was like, caitlin's doing so well. And I was, like, so proud to hear that. Like, when my dad told me, like, obviously, I knew that, but I think it was just, like, her belief in me more than anything. And to be honest, like, when I first committed to Iowa, like, I said from day one that I wanted to take them to a Final Four. And, like, a lot of people were just, like, that would never happen. Like, a lot of people that were really close to me, a lot of people that I trusted in my life, like, they never believed that I could help them achieve to where we ended up getting, other than really Coach Bluder. So I'm really thankful for her. And, you know, obviously, it evolved over the course of four years. Like, it was certainly a process. And I had some really good teammates that were some really good players and really just bought in and were some of my best friends. But I also think, like, Coach Bluder, like, she really coached me. Like, it wasn't like, Caitlin just gets to do whatever she wants. Like, I was held accountable more than anyone on the team by far.

Sue Bird (21:07)

There was, like, film sessions, right?

Caitlin Clark (21:08)

She'd see them, she would lay into me. It was tough. But did she give you the green light?

Sue Bird (21:14)

Did you, like, take the green light?

Caitlin Clark (21:16)

I think I gave myself, and she never told me not to. I think there was definitely, like, a learning process, too. Like, there would be some games where, like, you know, there's just games where you don't have it and being able to, like, still help your team win. I think that was, like, a process of learning that over the course of my career, especially, like, trusting my teammates. Like, that wasn't always something that I wanted to do. Early in my career. In college, I felt like I always had to do it all myself. But I think, especially, like, my junior and senior year, like, that was the reason we were so good is because, like, my teammates always flourished in their role. But I also trusted them, and they trusted me.

Sue Bird (21:49)

Where does that trust come from? Do you think that's, like, you have to work on that and gain it, or you have to give it early and then live into it?

Caitlin Clark (21:58)

Well, I think we were fortunate enough. Like, we had the same starting five for four years. Like, that doesn't happen in college. And obviously, Covid was a part of that. My teammates were Able to take extra years. But also, they were my best friends. We always hung out with each other. I think having that relationship is so important. And you don't have to be best friends with your teammates to have the same amount of success. But we did. And I think that made up for maybe the talent that we lacked or the skill that we lacked in certain areas.

Sue Bird (22:25)

The chemistry.

Caitlin Clark (22:26)

Yeah, absolutely. So I think it was just the trust part of it that we had with my teammates.

Sue Bird (22:31)

Yeah, well, you get to college, you lead the nation in scoring your freshman year. So the green light, whether it was given, earned or whatever, there's a reason you had it.

Caitlin Clark (22:40)

You don't forget that. I forget that. You forget that I'm 26 my freshman year.

Sue Bird (22:44)

Yeah, it's crazy because then what's even crazier is your sophomore year, you lead in scoring and assists. So I think one of the special parts of your game is that balance. And clearly you figured that out early. So, like, what in that. If you can think back to that time, like, what are you learning about that balance and how to achieve both?

Caitlin Clark (23:04)

Yeah, I mean, I think it's like, always been a part of my game. And I think the pace at which I play, like, that's where a lot of my assists come, like, in transition. Like, I'm not like a. I don't know. Like, I feel like I. Like, I don't know. I think that's. We played fast, we played up tempo. That's where, like, I kind of got.

Sue Bird (23:22)

What were you gonna say, though? You don't know?

Caitlin Clark (23:25)

I don't know anyway. But yeah, I think it was kind of a balance. But also, like, when I played for my AAU team, OL Iowa Tech, like, we played that same manner of how I played at Iowa. Like, we played fast, we played up tempo. So for me, like, I wasn't changing my game when I got to college. Like, it was very similar. Like, all I would attack. Like, we're known to have like five shooters on the floor at all time. Like, we played with really good floor spacing. And at Iowa, it was the same way. Like, four people were on the floor that could shoot at the same time. And then obviously we usually played with a true post, but they rarely missed too. Like, Mon never missed. Like, Hannah Stolke was tremendous when I was there too. And even our backup post players, like, I always think about how coach Bluder ran practices and things. And I'm very fortunate, looking back and now going to watch other colleges practices and things like that. She really was so intentional. About making sure everyone was on the same page and knew what they were doing and knew their role in a way. When I talk to people about it, I joke. She brainwashed people. Not actually, but brainwashed into, okay, if you drive here, you're going here, and you're going here. And even now at the professional level, I'm like, how do people not know where to move? It blows my mind still, but I think it just makes me really appreciative of what Coach Bluder was able to do when we were at Iowa, she was so smart. She was able to construct a team and make sure everyone always knew what they were gonna do. Whether you were the smartest basketball player on the team or you weren't, you were always on the same page with your teammates.

Sue Bird (24:50)

Yeah, it's not brainwashing, but I hear what you're saying.

Caitlin Clark (24:52)

It's not brainwashing, but.

Sue Bird (24:53)

Because it becomes like, a way of life.

Caitlin Clark (24:54)

Yeah, absolutely.

Sue Bird (24:55)

You just, like. It's like what you do.

Caitlin Clark (24:56)

Exactly.

Sue Bird (24:57)

You're not really thinking. And so that's what kind of feels like. Kind of feels like that.

Caitlin Clark (25:00)

So what.

Sue Bird (25:01)

What do you think makes you a great passer?

Caitlin Clark (25:04)

Hmm.

Sue Bird (25:06)

I mean, I question a lot about you and I. So I have my thoughts.

Caitlin Clark (25:08)

I think my willingness to take risks, which probably get to that.

Sue Bird (25:13)

We're going to get to that.

Caitlin Clark (25:15)

I think also, like, I can see things happen before they. They do. Also, like, I feel like I'm a good defensive rebounder. Like, I try to. That's always, like, my goal, like, go get the rebound and go. Like, that's the best way to start our offense is like, I'd have the ball immediately. That makes it harder for the defense to pick me up. You know, we're going in transition. It's harder to match up. It means we gotta stop. I think also, like, I play with good teammates. Like, I play with really good cutters. Even in college, Like, Kate was a great cutter. Like, I had people on my team that were good cutters. Like, now Kelsey, Lexi, Sophie, like, you go down the list. Like, I play with really good cutters that make it easy. Like, Kelsey, like, you can, like, be, like, guarded up, like, denying her, but, like, she's just faster than you. So at the end of the day, like, she's still gonna get the ball. So I'd say those things.

Sue Bird (25:58)

Yeah. I think strength is a big part of strength. Yeah. You can, like, get it there.

Caitlin Clark (26:01)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (26:01)

Because there's. Sometimes I watch you play and I'll see the thing you're seeing and. But like, for myself, I'm like, oh, I don't know if I would have thrown it because I don't know if I would have gotten it.

Caitlin Clark (26:09)

Yeah, 100%. And I think, like, I haven't always, like, realized how strong I, like, actually am because, like, you look at me, I, like, probably don't look the strongest, but I am. And it's also, I think that goes kind of back to my shooting. Like, even when we do these. Like, this might be stupid, but when we do our half court shots at the, at the end of shoot around, like, I shoot my shot normally. Like some people are doing, like, and like, they're running. I'm like, no. Like, I'm just like. But I think that just comes from, like, my legs and like, how strong I am. Like, that's just like, kind of normal for me.

Sue Bird (26:37)

Do you think passing can be something that is, like, learned? Like, can you get better at it? Is it, you know, film and understanding or is it just a feeling?

Caitlin Clark (26:49)

I think it's like 50, 50. I think you're kind of like.

Sue Bird (26:55)

Like, you have to have it and then you can improve.

Caitlin Clark (26:56)

Everyone can be a good passer. I think it's your one, your willingness to pass and want to get your teammates open. But also there is just some things that you can't teach, like your ability as a point guard to be able to see the game happen before it does happen. You can't teach someone that. That's kind of just a skill you get. And I think that kind of just goes back to your IQ of the game. And I think a lot of that comes from, like, you're just watching basketball and like, being around the game and loving the game.

Sue Bird (27:24)

Are there other players in the WNBA that, like, when you watch them, you're like, oh, they have that same feel.

Caitlin Clark (27:29)

Just like from a passing standpoint, I think Sabrina. And like, even watching her throughout college. Cause like, when I was in, you know, high school, like, she was one of my favorite players because she, at the time, she was like the person in college. Like, that was just my time period. Like, her organ teams were amazing. I think. Sabrina. Gosh. I mean, Skyler.

Sue Bird (27:48)

Yeah. Chelsea Gray.

Caitlin Clark (27:51)

Chelsea Gray.

Sue Bird (27:54)

Yeah. Honestly. Alyssa Thomas.

Caitlin Clark (27:56)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (27:57)

Like, for a post player.

Caitlin Clark (27:58)

Absolutely. Yeah.

Sue Bird (27:59)

Aaliyah Boston.

Caitlin Clark (28:00)

Yeah. Aaliyah. She's becoming like a really good playmaker. Bester. Best post playmaker for sure in the league.

Sue Bird (28:07)

Okay, so back to college for a second. You're like going through your freshman, sophomore, you're getting into junior and senior. What are you noticing? Cause I'M sure you're noticing a shift in how people are guarding you. So, like, what is it?

Caitlin Clark (28:20)

Are you.

Sue Bird (28:21)

Like, the defenses are just so bad. In college, we just move on.

Caitlin Clark (28:26)

Honestly, like, I might go back at one point in my life and coach college basketball just because, like, looking back, like, obviously at the time, like, that was all I knew. And then, like, you get into the pros, and it's just like, okay, like, why didn't people guard me like this? But also, like, you have to take into account, like, most people that are in college aren't gonna go on to play professional basketball. They just don't have the iq. Doesn't mean they're not good players. Doesn't mean they don't love the game. But it's just not the same at the end of the day. But in college, I feel like all I saw was drop. All I saw was. I never. I mean, I rarely saw a show. I mean, here and there. And if I saw a show, we would run this one play. It was called C. I literally. It's engraved in my brain. It's insane.

Sue Bird (29:12)

Brainwashed.

Caitlin Clark (29:13)

It'd be like, all right, we know they're showing this game. Or running C. It was like I acted like I was coming off a ball screen. We got the post player to kind of show out. I would immediately dribble back to my right. Mon would go and pin down for our guard coming off the block, and then Mon would just steal, and we'd get a layup every time. And we just continued to run it, continue to run it for four years straight. And literally no one could catch on. So it's like, all you needed was one answer. Professionally, that doesn't work. Like, okay, nice. The play might work one time, but it's not gonna work the next time you play him. It's not gonna work the second time. You. Nobody really picked me up full court, and even if they did, like, I would just, like, slice up the floor and then get hit on the run, and then, like, I'd automatically be in an advantage there. So I don't know. I feel like it was just. At times, I wish I could go back to college. It was fun. It was a good time.

Sue Bird (30:01)

I know. I mean, you're. I mean, the way you play is. So you have to have a game plan for you. You cannot have a. I mean, even in pickup, you'd probably be a nightmare to play in pickup. I always think of that with Steph Curry, and I'm not even making the comparison in. In these other ways. Which you can. But it's like he must be a nightmare to play pickup.

Caitlin Clark (30:19)

That's why I was excited to play in the All Star game because I was like oh yes. Like I'm just gonna get some clean like free looks like dribble in.

Sue Bird (30:26)

I know because last All Star game was a little different.

Caitlin Clark (30:28)

Yeah. Which was fun. I like that. I wish we would have tried harder this year honestly. And then make it a little more fun.

Sue Bird (30:34)

All Stars are tricky with that. I've been a part of some where.

Caitlin Clark (30:38)

It'S hard because we don't really get a break and it's just like you.

Sue Bird (30:40)

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Sue Bird (33:36)

Okay, so we talk a lot about or people talk a lot about your big games and you actually brought up a little bit earlier just like there are games where you're not going to.

Caitlin Clark (33:44)

Shoot well for sure.

Sue Bird (33:45)

And so I'm curious, like, what are you thinking in the games when you don't have it? What are you thinking on A, how can I still impact winning and then B, what are you like kind of in the back of your head trying to do to get it going?

Caitlin Clark (33:59)

Yeah, I think it was, it's been different professionally than definitely in college. Like in college, like I always had to keep shooting. Like that was just reality. Like, keep shooting, keep shooting, keep shooting. And not that it's not professionally like, but I'm not taking 25 shots a game. Like I'm taking 25 shots a game in college. I think just like remaining confident in myself no matter what and reminding myself of how much time I've put in. Like, you know, not gonna stay shooting that way because that just wouldn't make sense. But law of averages also, like, I can always impact the game with my passing, with my gravity and like even when I've had some tough games this season, like where I haven't been able to shoot the ball maybe as well as I would have liked, like Steph will bring me in the next day and like we always watch film and like she'll show me the ways of like How I'm impacting the game. Like, you know, even if I'm not, like, making the pass or getting the assists, like I'm getting the hockey assists or my gravity of spacing the floor, like that led to my teammate cutting and getting open right there. That led to my post player being able to make the basket. Like, just little things like that. And, you know, obviously sometimes that's hard to understand when you're in the, you know, heat of a game. And also, like, it doesn't always feel that way too. Like, you are so competitive and you want to impact winning so much. But I think it's always good to, like, go back and really watch it and see it. So I think it's been a little bit different professionally and, like, just balancing that, but also, like, still always believing, like, I'm impacting the game no matter what.

Sue Bird (35:21)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, like I said, you've also had some big major games. I would say.

Caitlin Clark (35:25)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (35:26)

We actually talked about this on a touch more the other day where that Louisville game. So we're in your junior year. 2023 elite eight in Seattle. That's like a. Kind of like a turning point.

Caitlin Clark (35:40)

41, 10 and 12 or something like that.

Sue Bird (35:42)

You know, just like, you know, the first 40 point triple double ever.

Caitlin Clark (35:45)

No big deal.

Sue Bird (35:46)

What do you remember about that game? Like, I know you said that the question that we talked about in a touch more was more about, like, your life changing. Like, at what point did it feel different? But this is still like, a huge game.

Caitlin Clark (35:56)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (35:57)

So what do you remember about that game? I can give you like, a little bit of a. You started down.

Caitlin Clark (36:03)

Yeah, we started down. I remember. I think they got off to an 8, 0 lead. Coach Hooter calls a timeout. And we went into the timeout and no one was frazzled. We were fine. I think everybody was a little jittery. It was like, okay. Our goal has always been to get to the Final Four. We're so close. Everybody's a little tense. And I thought we settled in right away. We come out of that timeout, I think I made a layup right away. And then we go on a little bit of a run. I think I get a steal. Whatever happens.

Sue Bird (36:26)

You went on a run.

Caitlin Clark (36:27)

I did go on a run.

Sue Bird (36:28)

Some other people scored, too, but you basically started hitting.

Caitlin Clark (36:31)

And then, honestly, I think we kind of, like, built a little bit of a lead. And then we went into the fourth quarter up a maybe 10 or so. Like, we had a pretty decent lead in the fourth.

Sue Bird (36:41)

Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (36:42)

And then they kind of started pressing and came back a little bit, but we were kind of able to win comfortably. Like, it didn't come down to the wire, which I appreciated.

Sue Bird (36:49)

What I want to ask you about it, though, before you get into the rest of it is so you. Did you start down 8? I actually had Kate on like a couple months ago and I was laughing because I talked to you guys before and I was like, this is a hard game. But it actually. And at first I was laughing with Kate because I was like, well, my vice was terrible because you guys blew him out. But actually you were down 8 0.

Caitlin Clark (37:09)

So maybe.

Sue Bird (37:09)

Maybe you came through. Maybe you came through. No, but what I'm bringing up is you go. You have like a double double, basically almost at halftime, I think. And you're only. I'm sorry, you're 22 and eight at half. You're 22 and eight at half and you're only up five. But here's my question. A lot of people have 22 and eight in a game like that and they finish with like 24 and 9. You know, like, that is a classic. Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (37:35)

Even professionally, like, coming out of the locker room, it's like, I hate halftime sometimes.

Sue Bird (37:38)

So how did you keep it going? That's the question.

Caitlin Clark (37:43)

I think we were. Were we winning or losing at halftime?

Sue Bird (37:46)

You were, you were up five. We were up, yeah.

Caitlin Clark (37:47)

Honestly, like, I feel like I was so locked in, like, over that two year stretch of my career. And honestly, especially when we get into postseason play in college, like, nothing was stopping me at the end of the day. Like, I was, we were going to win. Like, that was just what was going to happen. And like, for me, like, I don't know, I feel like there was like this just like, constant belief, like, within our team and our locker room and our coaches. Like, we had worked so hard for that moment. And also the year prior, we, like, got upset to Creighton on our home court. And like, I feel like that was kind of the fire that we needed to like, be able to accomplish what we wanted to accomplish until that point. Like, we had been like, we just won all the time. Like, we won the Big Ten tournament, we won Big Ten regular season title. Like, nothing was really, like, we hadn't really, like, hit adversity. And I feel like we hit adversity my sophomore year in the NCAA Tournament. And I think that kind of really led us to the moment of, like, nothing was going to stop us. My junior year especially, but obviously going into my senior year too. So I think, like, I Don't know. Like, I tell people, like, going into those games in college, like, I feel like I was in a daze. And like, it's. It's kind of the same professionally. Like, professional level is just so different. Like, the schedule, everything, like, just very different. But in college, like, I wasn't nervous for any of those games. And I don't really get nervous professionally either. But in college, it was just what I did. I just showed up and had 30 and 10 every single night. I don't know, just another Monday. Also, I feel like I knew I had to keep performing at that level for us to win. I mean, I had 22 and 8 and we were only up 5, so it was like, I have to keep going.

Sue Bird (39:33)

Would you call it the Flow State? This is like the coveted thing for sure. Would you call it that? So that game felt like a flow state.

Caitlin Clark (39:40)

Yeah. And I would say even the next year, too. Well, obviously. And the next game when we played South Carolina.

Sue Bird (39:44)

Yeah, yeah. Actually, we'll come back to the Flow State in a second. So. Yeah, you guys go on. So basically your junior and senior year, you get to the finals both times, obviously both disappointing, but they did feel like these like, magical seasons, you know, I'm curious, like, which one was harder? Was it harder the first time when you don't know any better, or was it harder the second time? Or second time where it's like, oh, I don't have the ignorance is bliss.

Caitlin Clark (40:10)

Honestly, I'm gonna say the first time because, like, I feel like there was so much pressure on us to like accomplish getting to the final four because that's what we always said. And that was Monica's last year.

Sue Bird (40:28)

So you felt pressure to do that for her.

Caitlin Clark (40:29)

Yeah. And like the year prior, we choked. And I remember we played the round of 32 game my junior year versus Georgia, and it was like the same situation. Like, we were only up like 2 4, like the entire game. Everyone was tense. Everyone was tight. You're playing in front of a sold out crowd, in front of everybody, 15,000 people. You're supposed to win. But also, that's a top 25 team. Basically everybody's playing at that point. They're pretty scrappy too. Yeah, they're scrappy. They played the weird zone and it came down to the wire. And I think once we got over that point and we beat them and made it to the sweet 16, it's like, okay, everyone, like, has a sigh of relief. But still there was certainly that pressure. So I would definitely say my junior year and Then my. I think that was, like, kind of what made, like, going into senior year kind of hard. And I remember, like, the beginning of senior year, like, I did feel a lot of pressure. Like, it was my last year. Yeah, I remember I was, like, really tense and tight to start the year, but probably because I felt like, you know, junior year was so amazing and I did all these things. I was national player of the year. I averaged 27 and 10 or whatever it was. I was like, how can I possibly do anything more at this point? How is that possible? And then I did senior year, so it's like, I think I felt the pressure of that more than anything. And then, like, senior year, like, you know, we lose Monica, who was like, kind of my right hand man. I was kind of like, is there really any way we're as good as we were? And then our record was better my senior year. Like, we performed better, realistically more than we did my junior year. And then, you know, Hannah Stolke kind of stepped into Monica's role and was really, really good and has been really good since. And she's in her senior year now, so I would definitely say junior year, I felt more of that. This is kind of hard thing and pressure. And then junior year was kind of like, ah, last year we're having fun. Might as well, like, go win. Like, it doesn't matter. This is bad.

Sue Bird (42:21)

It doesn't fall for once.

Caitlin Clark (42:22)

And then Kate didn't really know she was coming back at the time my junior year. So I feel like that was kind of a thing that was always up in the air is like, you know, Kate, Monica, McKenna. Like, those are like three players. Like, there's no way we're getting back to the Final Four without them, so.

Sue Bird (42:36)

So the expectations kind of made it.

Caitlin Clark (42:38)

It was like, this is our last chance, we better figure it out. So. And we did. Thank God.

Sue Bird (42:42)

But does it still? Does it still? I asked Kate this too, like, and I know the answer, but does it still sting to have gotten to the finals twice?

Caitlin Clark (42:50)

Um, I mean, yeah, like, I would have loved to win one of them, but honestly, like, two of my most fun nights in college were after losing the national championship. Like, yeah, fair. We had just as much fun. I mean, yes, we were sad. We would have loved to win one of them. And I think I would have loved to win one of them. Not so much because, like, okay, yeah, like, I win one of them, we get a ring, whatever. People celebrate. But honestly, I think people celebrated us just as much as they. If we didn't win, obviously, but just so people wouldn't constantly talk about that. It just gave them another thing to talk about. Like, oh, they don't win. They didn't win. They didn't win. Okay. We were the University of Iowa. Nobody believed in us. Do you know how amazing it is to have done what we did? And I think we're all very proud of that. And we make jokes about it. We're the best second place team there's ever been.

Sue Bird (43:45)

Yeah. You keep talking about your teammates and it's like, just from outside looking in, I can see how special the relationship is. What do they mean even now?

Caitlin Clark (43:54)

Like, I mean, they're my best friends at the end of the day. Like, I talk to them all the time. And like, even the ones that maybe I don't talk to all the time, like, we still stay in touch. Like, you know, one of my teammates just had got married. A lot of them got to go as over all star, so I didn't get to go. But, like, that's just like the bond that we all share. And like, I think, like, that's the coolest part is, like, how much we all stay in touch and like, really cheer and support each other and constantly show up for each other. And honestly, I feel like you have to give Coach Bluder a lot of that credit because I always tell people, like, she's probably one of the best people team builders there is. Like, that's always kind of what she was known for. Like, yes, they had great teams and like, she's good at basketball, X's and O's.

Sue Bird (44:33)

But, like, goes beyond that.

Caitlin Clark (44:34)

Even the teams before us, like, they're very close knit. Like, it's just like a special bond that people always had. If you played for the University of Iowa, the one.

Sue Bird (44:41)

Yeah. I can even see it with, like, how like, Megan Gustafson.

Caitlin Clark (44:45)

Yeah. With her teammates. Yeah. Supported you guys 100. If she showed up, she would come to, like, she loved it. She was just happy for us. Like, those players were just happy for us. And I remember, like, when we got to the finals fours, it was like always such a scramble for tickets because, like, so many former players are like. And it's obviously the same for UConn and other places too, but, like, it was a huge deal. Like, they just loved it and loved being a part of it.

Sue Bird (45:07)

I would say this. I hear what you're saying on the fact that you didn't win gave people, like, something to latch onto. But I would say I know for a fact more people are proud I think of what you guys did, what you guys built, like, your group, you especially.

Caitlin Clark (45:21)

And I think it's, like, crazy, like, at the time, like, you're in the moment and like, my senior year, like, I just saw this the other day, like, I kind of forgot. I think our Sweet 16 game was 12 million viewers. Or maybe I have it wrong. Early date game was 12 million viewers, and then the final four was 14, and the national championship was, like, 18 million viewers. And at the time, like, I remember, like, oh, that's like, that's cool.

Sue Bird (45:42)

But, like, now you're like, whoa.

Caitlin Clark (45:44)

You don't realize, like, how insane that is. Like, that's NFL Christmas Day numbers. Like, that's insane. Like, how many people were, like, tuning in to watch women's college women's basketball, like, and loved it and supported it, and we're, like, so excited about, like, just the journey. So I think at the time I was, like, so in a daze of everything that was going on. Like, you didn't really take time to process that.

Sue Bird (46:04)

And now the further you get, the more it hits.

Caitlin Clark (46:08)

It's really interesting.

Sue Bird (46:09)

Yeah. Let's go back to the quote, unquote, flow state for a second. You've got scored 60 points in high school. You've had 40 point games in college. I imagine games like this will happen in your WNB career as well. So. Yeah. So when you think of those games, is it the flow state something you said on Sue's Places keeps coming up. Something you said was, like, when you're a shooter, like, all great shooters, when it leaves your hand, you know, this is actually something Steph Curry has talked about. And he's talked about, like, especially the ones where he shoots and turns.

Caitlin Clark (46:43)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (46:44)

He's like, for him, that is flow state. Cause he just knows. And it comes down to, like, the details for him, and he, like, trains these details. So I'm just curious, like, is flow state something you think you can train to get to more often, or is this just, like, you're in it and that's the only. Really, you can't, like, necessarily make it happen more or less.

Caitlin Clark (47:03)

Wow, that's a good question. So I think it is something you train.

Sue Bird (47:11)

Okay.

Caitlin Clark (47:12)

But at the end of the day, like, I feel like when you get into that kind of flow or those moments, like, it's just something that happens and then, like, you feed off of it and you build off of it. Like, when I've had those games, like, yes, it's because, like, I've imagined myself in these moments. I've worked for these moments. I've. Whatever it is. But then, like, when you're actually in it, like, you're building on it, like, you're continuing, like, the basket is this big. Like, you continue to shoot. You continue to, you know, find the open teammate, whatever it is. Like, the game just feels easy. Like, it just, like, is that the.

Sue Bird (47:46)

Moments where, like, you've hit, you know, I'm making this up. Maybe, like, you're third in a row and you kind of, like, laugh.

Caitlin Clark (47:50)

Yeah, yeah, you turn. You're kind of, like, 100% it's happening 100%. Like, and I think that's what makes it so fun. Like, and I think at times, like, also, like, you have moments where you impress yourself. I've had a lot of those moments, too. Whether it's been in college, just in practice, or in college, in games or even professionally in games where you're laugh, because not that you can't believe it's happening, but at the same time, you're like, that was stupid. Ridiculous. That was awesome. You're proud of yourself. It's just cool. So I think you get into those moments and you kind of just feed off of it, and you're in a different type of zone that nobody can take you out of, really.

Sue Bird (48:29)

So given that you can make tough shots, how do you determine what's a good shot and what's a bad shot? You know what I mean? Like, your level of difficulty is high.

Caitlin Clark (48:40)

Yeah. I mean, I think it's also, like, it's kind of probably been a journey for me coming from college to the professional level, too. And, like, now, over the course of, like, three years, I've played for three different coaches, too. So, like, every coach is gonna be a little bit different. And, like, it's also a learning process of each other. It's the same me and Coach Bluder had in college of, like, having a little grace with one another in the sense, obviously, the same professionally of what they want and, you know, what they need and what I need. But also, I think, like, time and score is, like, probably the biggest thing for me. Like, even when we just played New York, I had just made three, and it was the end of the first quarter and I came down and I, like, kind of danced with the ball for a little bit for no reason. And then, like, we could have got a two for one, but I wasn't paying attention. And so, like, Steph was, like. Came up to me at the end of the quarter and was like, hey, like, be aware of the clock. And, like, she's right. Like, those are the moments. Like, you can't get, like, so in the zone. And so, like, fixated on, like, I'm shooting this. I'm, like, doing this. Like, I should have just came down and shot it. Like, I'd already made three. Like, it's either gonna go in or it's not.

Sue Bird (49:42)

And then I'm like, I love two for ones. It's like, a free two for ones are like, had to do it.

Caitlin Clark (49:46)

It drives me nuts when people don't do two for ones. I know, but that.

Sue Bird (49:48)

But when you're getting the first of the two.

Caitlin Clark (49:50)

Yeah. So I think it's just times score. Yeah, it's a free shot.

Sue Bird (49:53)

Yeah, I had to do it.

Caitlin Clark (49:54)

It's a free shot. Even if it's a bad shot. It's like, I had to do it. Like, I had to. Exactly. So I think it's time. And score. I think it's like, also, like, how many have you made? Like, also, like, it's different for everybody. Like, it might be a good shot for me. It might not be. That might not be a good shot for one of my teammates.

Sue Bird (50:10)

Yeah, no, that's the balance.

Caitlin Clark (50:12)

Knowing that about yourself makes it hard for coaches, too. Like, how do you tell somebody, like, oh, she can shoot that, but you can't.

Sue Bird (50:20)

Like, but that's how they get paid the big bucks. That's why they get paid the big bucks. Okay, so you're. You kind of got me to basically, like, the start of your WNBA career. You technically leave a year of eligibility on the table.

Caitlin Clark (50:33)

Maybe I can go back with all this new college stuff.

Sue Bird (50:35)

Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (50:35)

Play soccer. Yeah, play soccer.

Sue Bird (50:38)

What do you remember? You know, Indiana gets the number one pick. What do you remember just about draft night? Like, is it a blur? Do you have, like, a. I remember.

Caitlin Clark (50:50)

When the draft lottery happened, actually.

Sue Bird (50:52)

Yeah. Okay. Cause that was, like. I actually looked it up before this.

Caitlin Clark (50:54)

It was like, between Indiana and. Who was the other team that was second best odds.

Sue Bird (51:01)

Oh, I don't remember. Second best. I know LA had the second pick.

Caitlin Clark (51:04)

Maybe it was la. I think LA had, like, the second best odds to get the first pick. Okay. So it was probably, like, between one of those two teams that were gonna get the first pick, and then maybe Chicago. Maybe. I don't remember. But I didn't want to go to la, but I wanted Indiana to get the first pick.

Sue Bird (51:18)

So them getting the first pick. I feel like you would have left college regardless. But this was, like, I probably would.

Caitlin Clark (51:23)

Have, but at the time, I was Definitely still up in the air. Like, early in my little bit. Senior year.

Sue Bird (51:28)

Okay.

Caitlin Clark (51:30)

And then I was like, eventually senior year kind of went on. I was like, this just needs to be the end. Like, what is there more for me to do here? Like, it's time for me to, like, start a new chapter of my life. Like, I've done plenty here, like, whatever. And I think Indiana was a good spot for me to start my professional career.

Sue Bird (51:49)

Why do you think that?

Caitlin Clark (51:51)

I'm a Midwest gal.

Sue Bird (51:53)

Okay.

Caitlin Clark (51:54)

I think the franchise was in a place of having the type of core players that could help make me successful, too. We have ab we had. Kellis was here, Lex was here, and I think that was really attractive. So I think it was that. And then, yeah, I remember, like, so I knew for a while, and I didn't really tell anyone. I told, like, Connor knew, but other than that, like, my parents kind of knew, but they never, like, really pushed. And, like, I kind of, like, told them, like, how I was feeling, what I was thinking. It was always like, I'm gonna continue to think about it. Like, that's kind of what I told everybody, even Coach Bluder. Like, we would kind of go back and forth, and obviously, like, that was hard because, like, Coach Bluder, like, she wanted me to come back. Like, that was her job, like, to get her best player back on her roster. Like, anybody would have done that. But at the same time, like, you know, when I made my final decision, obviously, she was very happy for me. But then, like, I decided and I obviously told, you know, my close circle of people. And then I remember I wanted to make sure I announced it before Senior Day because I didn't want to go through Senior Day. And there would just be, like, this looming question mark of, like, is this really Senior Day? Is it not? That wasn't fair to myself or to my teammates that were also trying to celebrate Senior Day. Like, I didn't want it to be about that. And I knew deep down, so, like, why wouldn't I just decide and, like, tell people? So I remember I had, like, my post all drafted up, and then I just, like, went to the range to hit golf balls, and I just, like, posted it, and then I kind of put my phone down and. And obviously it blew up and whatever, but I think a lot of people close to me and around me kind of knew that that's what was coming and that was gonna be what happened. Yeah. And then draft night, I guess that whole thing is kind of a blur because obviously we make it to the National Championship. I go back to Iowa for literally a day. Then I go to la, then I go to New York. And you have so many obligations and so many things to do, and then you get drafted. And then the next morning you're on Good Morning America, and then you fly to Indianapolis to meet everybody at your new organization. It's just a lot. It's a lot to take in. And it all kind of just happened so fast. But in a way, I'm kind of thankful for that. Cause at the same time, you can't really understand the moment and you're just kind of in it and you're just doing what you do, and then you're just thrown into the fire and you go play.

Sue Bird (54:16)

Yeah. So when you get out to Indiana to start training camp, training camp starts. Sometimes those training camps can be hard. Cause it's just like a lot of learning, a lot of newness.

Caitlin Clark (54:25)

It is. Yeah.

Sue Bird (54:26)

Who helped you the most? Just kind of, like, through the training camp, help, like, adjust to this new life.

Caitlin Clark (54:32)

I mean, I think there was, like, there was a lot of people, and I feel like, very fortunate to have been drafted to, you know, the fever. Like, everybody was so great. Like, you know, Lynn Dunn, she was the one that drafted me. Like, she, like, always was checking in on me, like, always texting me. And she still does. Like, even though she's not our gm, she still comes to all our practices and even this year texts me all the time, make sure I'm doing okay. And, like, how can she help me? Or, you know, she's thinking of me. And, you know, all my teammate were really good from the moment I got drafted. Like, Edub to Lexi to, you know, AB whoever. It was. Like, they've always been, like, you know, right there for me and some of my biggest fans and, you know, told me where to eat in the city or this and that or whatever it was. Exactly. So, I mean, really, all of them. And it's just such a great franchise that, you know, it's a place that just really loves basketball and wants to see people succeed. So.

Sue Bird (55:24)

Yeah. Okay. You brought this up a little bit. And I actually have it, like, in my notes, so I was very excited. Risk assessment. So you start. We're gonna get there.

Caitlin Clark (55:32)

So you start the season or making passes?

Sue Bird (55:34)

Making passes, yeah. Because your first game out, I don't.

Caitlin Clark (55:37)

Have very good risk assessment skills.

Sue Bird (55:40)

We'll get into that. No, like, your first game out, there's a lot of hype. There's a lot of conversation happening. We all remember it. That game Was a blurb. Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (55:48)

Thank God. I try to forget that.

Sue Bird (55:50)

Well, I'm gonna bring it up one time.

Caitlin Clark (55:51)

No, that's fine. I like talking about it now, but.

Sue Bird (55:54)

In a good way. So you do commit 10 turnovers in your WNBA debut, but what a beast later in the season.

Caitlin Clark (55:59)

Double double. Actually Y.

Sue Bird (56:01)

You did have 20 points. You'd have 20 points later in the season. You also set the single assist season record with 19 assists. So as somebody who has the ball in their hands pretty much the entire game, like, what is your thought around risk assessment? Honestly, it's hard. Yeah. But how did a 10 turnover game not impact your ability to still go out and play make? Because I feel like that is what it is. It's a constant assessment.

Caitlin Clark (56:28)

Well, I will say I apologize to the team after that game. I felt really bad.

Sue Bird (56:33)

It happens.

Caitlin Clark (56:33)

Yeah, but I mean like I've had those games before and I, I'm going to have another eight turnover game in my career. Like that's just how I played and like people always try to make a big deal about that. And I bet if you like look up my turnovers in college. I bet I led the NCAA all time and turnovers in my career. Like, I'm not saying like this is a good thing to brag about, but like, I don't know, I think it just comes with.

Sue Bird (56:57)

In order to have the good. Yeah, like there's trade offs.

Caitlin Clark (57:01)

Yes. I can improve and get a lot better and I understand that. And I feel like that's probably been one of the positives I've taken out of even this year. Obviously I haven't been available as much as I would have liked or, you know, it's been so hard stop and go and it's hard to get in a flow. But like, even when I just came back this last time, like, I feel like I played some of my best, like floor games in general of like just managing the game and like, like passing, setting my teammates up and maybe I haven't shot it as great as I would have liked. And it's just hard to get into a flow of how much I've been out and in the lineup and then I'm on a minutes restriction and things like that. But even like late game, like I feel like I've managed games much better than I maybe did my rookie year. And that's something that like isn't probably always talked about but like I can find confidence in that. But I think the risk assessment thing, like, maybe it's a toxic part of me, but I Always think it's going to go well, and then I throw it and it doesn't go well.

Sue Bird (57:51)

Honestly, a little delusion is nice.

Caitlin Clark (57:53)

Yeah, I definitely have some delusion.

Sue Bird (57:54)

In order to be great, you have to have it for sure.

Caitlin Clark (57:56)

I definitely have some delusion. And all the good players have delusion. That's just true. The truth. You have to think you're better than you actually are at the end of the day, 100%. You have to have that confidence about yourself. But I think that's even been something me and Steph have always talk about when we go and watch film. And even that New York game where I played really, really well, obviously scored a lot of points. I think I had nine assists or 10 assists that game. This was his last game this year. I started the fourth quarter off with, like, three turnovers in a row or two turnovers in a row, and Steph yanked me. And she was like. Like, this is like a learning moment. Like, you gotta be able to, like, yes. Like, maybe it could have been there. Like, maybe you could have thrown a little bit better of a pass. Maybe they could have caught it. But, like, do we need that in this moment? Like, no. And then she sent me back in, and there was a play where I kind of got a steal. And we're going in transition, and Kelsey Mitchell just takes off down the middle of the floor, and there's two people kind of by her, and I literally go to grab the ball, and then I just dribble out, and I literally just start smiling so big. And I look at Steph and I told her after that better be on film. Yeah. And you don't understand how hard it was for me to not throw that. And she's like, oh, I know. Trust me. Everybody was like, we saw you about to throw that. But I think it's just kind of a learning process. And it goes back to even my shot thing. It's just time and score and understanding. I think that's where I can soak, kind of improve. Like, do we really need that, like, sequence of a game? Like, have we just scored twice or have we just missed two shots in a row? Throw it then. Or, like, on the makes. But if we just miss, like, get us into something, like, help us score, things like that, I think can continue to improve in that area.

Sue Bird (59:30)

Yeah, that's, like, the assessment. It's also feeling the game as it's happening, for sure. And that comes with age and with growth. So your first two games are your rookie year. Like, they're not terrible. It's like 14 and a half points, four and a half assists. For a lot of people, this would be like, career numbers, but you're not shooting great, so you're like, below. Below 30. But then the next four games, your shooting percentages go up. You're like 40 and 32.5. Your numbers go up, obviously, like, literally 18, 7 and 7, basically. All right, so you're already growing is basically the point that I'm trying to get to. And I'm just, like, curious if there was something in here that you're, like, already figuring out. Like, what are you?

Caitlin Clark (60:12)

I think, like, just the shooting thing was like. I mean, like, you just, like, you go on stretches where you don't shoot as well, and then you should go on stretches where you shoot great. And I think that's kind of like, a little bit of what I experienced. And also just adjusting to a faster game and, like, getting picked up more and, like, finding different creative ways.

Sue Bird (60:27)

What was the biggest adjustment out of all of that?

Caitlin Clark (60:29)

I think just how much I was getting pressured. Like, it was just, like, constant full court. And also, I think as the season went on, like, that chilled out as much. Like, it's hard to, like, want to do that an entire season. Like, teams like, you don't want to pick up 94ft the entire season. Like, that's just hard. So I think that kind of relaxed a little bit. I think overall, like, our team just got better. Maybe not as much early in the season, but after Olympic break, like, we just, like, played together better. Like, we read each other better, things like that. And then, like, you know, once you start making shots and, like, your offense is just playing, like, you just get more confident. So I think it wasn't a. It wasn't like, I can't. It's like, I think that's why I was so frustrated maybe early in my rookie years. Like, well, why is it not going in like this? This is stupid. Like, I'm two shots away from being really, really good. And then obviously I found it. And, yeah, things kind of soared from there.

Sue Bird (61:24)

Yeah. The first 11 games was that really tough stretch, like, schedule wise, that a lot of people talked about. Do you. When you look back on, really, the whole year, what was, like, the breakout game for you? And I don't even think it has to do necessarily with, like, points specifically. Like, what game were you, like, boom for you?

Caitlin Clark (61:44)

This might be an interesting answer, but I remember we played the Mystics early on in the season at home. We actually lost, but in the Second half, I, like, just kind of was like, ah, like, screw it. Like, I'm just gonna, like, go hoop now.

Sue Bird (62:02)

Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (62:03)

Like, and I remember, like, I just, like, started being aggressive. Like, I just, like, was getting after on defense. Like, I was just shooting the ball without thinking, like, passing to my teammates. I think I had, like, finished with 27, and, like, we didn't win, but I felt like I kind of just, like, felt like myself out there. And then after that, I kind of just kept building and building and building. And then, you know, we went to Minnesota. Beat Minnesota before Olympic break. Won quite a few at home there. Like, people always say it was after Olympic break, but really it was right.

Sue Bird (62:32)

Before starting to build. Yeah. You broke the assist record, I think, before Olympic break.

Caitlin Clark (62:35)

Did I? Okay.

Sue Bird (62:36)

I think so.

Caitlin Clark (62:37)

And then fact check, maybe I did. I don't know. And then we went and played Dallas at Dallas, and I had 2419.

Sue Bird (62:43)

Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (62:43)

Yeah. Like, it was just like, before Olympic break.

Sue Bird (62:45)

Before Olympic break. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was talking about. Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (62:47)

That was before Olympic break. That came before Olympic break.

Sue Bird (62:50)

Yeah, it was building.

Caitlin Clark (62:50)

So, like, I was going into Olympic break, like, pretty confident in my abilities and what I could do, and then obviously having a whole month of practice, like, it. That makes things a lot easier when you come back. And nobody from our team had any, like, obligations other than Kristy Wallace was with Australia and then came back and I think we won our first seven. It was nice. We played, like, seven games in a row at home, and then we ran into the Lynx and they beat us at home. But. But it's easy when you can just keep stacking games and getting better and better. But I would say, like, certainly before Olympic break, I kind of.

Sue Bird (63:21)

Yeah, it sounds like you got to, like. I don't know how else to say it. Like, the fuck it place.

Caitlin Clark (63:25)

Yeah, fuck it. Yeah.

Sue Bird (63:26)

Which is a really wonderful place as.

Caitlin Clark (63:28)

A rookie, too, because, like, you're coming in, you have new teammates. Like, you're trying to, like, fit in and, like, please everybody.

Sue Bird (63:36)

We really thinking a lot.

Caitlin Clark (63:37)

Yeah. And, like, you're the point guard. Like, you have so many people to get involved, people that have been in this franchise for a really long time, trying to learn new coaches, like, new league everything. And I think eventually you're just like, all right, time to just go play and go hoop and just be yourself.

Sue Bird (63:51)

Yeah, that makes total sense. Support for this show comes from Google Pixel. When it comes to upgrading your smartphone, you could settle for the same old, same old, or you could reach for the extraordinary and try a Google Pixel 9 Pro. Pixel 9 Pro comes with Gemini, your built in AI assistant that helps you supercharge your ideas. And now with Gemini Live you can have an actual conversation with Gemini. So the next time you want travel itinerary Suggestions need help? Phrasing a message? Or you just want to know when the next game is on? You can ask Gemini. It also features Pixel's best camera yet. You know those moments where you want to take a group photo but you can't decide who'll be the photographer? Well, with their Add Me feature you no longer need to worry about that. It's a camera built to capture everyone in beautiful resolution, including the person taking the photo. Meet Pixel 9 Pro with a stunning new design, the advanced AI power of Gemini and their best camera yet. Now we're talking. You can learn more about the new Google Pixel 9 with Gemini Live on the Google Store. Sequences shortened Gemini Live available for ages 18, compatible with certain features and with certain accounts. Results for illustrative purposes and may vary. Check responses for accuracy. Support for Bird's Eye View comes from Etsy as these ladies dominate the game on the court. Stars Cameron Brink, Skylar Diggins, Neko Gumake and Briana Stewart are dominating off the court as well and teaming up with Etsy to show how their style travels. With an exclusive collection from Etsy, these athletes showcase their coveted personal style with the help of Etsy sellers. By blending self expression with craftsmanship, this collaboration is more than a drop, it's a celebration of the shared spirit of grit, originality and heart that drives both athletes and makers to create something truly special. The four piece icon collection includes a two piece clothing set by Skylar Diggins and Etsy seller Mary Lo of by Mary Lo Metal statement earrings by Neko Gumuke and Etsy seller Deja Sparks of Deja Sparks Jewelry, a New York City inspired charm necklace by Briana Stewart and Etsy seller Hadley Staub of From Hadley and Press On Nails by Cameron Brink and Etsy seller Hayley Tripp of Bling It On Nail Nails. Plus each athlete has also curated a selection of more style finds on Etsy, offering a deeper look into their off court aesthetics and creative inspirations. Shop the full collection and curated edits exclusively@etsy.com theiconcollection Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real and so is the relief from Ebgliss. After an initial dosing phase, about 4.

Caitlin Clark (66:15)

In 10 people taking Eglis achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin.

Sue Bird (66:19)

At 16 weeks, and most of those.

Caitlin Clark (66:21)

People maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing. EBGLIS Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with, with, or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Epglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief?

Sue Bird (66:59)

Ask your doctor about eglis and visit.

Caitlin Clark (67:01)

Epgliss.Lily.Com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

Sue Bird (67:07)

Yeah, I mean, looking back on your year, it's, you know, everybody's picking you up. Full court, trying to tire out. Tire you out for sure. Not let you get anything easy. They're physical with you, they're pushing you. Right. Everyone knows you like to go left. So now teams you already talked about in college, they didn't really do that as much. You're getting trapped. All the things. All the things. I think this is actually, to be honest, my personal favorite part of the WNBA is that, like, because the league is small and because everybody's so good, it's like very quickly, very quickly, your weaknesses make it to the Sky Report. Like, whatever it is teams are trying to do, they get to all the team Sky Reports, and then it becomes like the game within the game because you're like, oh, this team is trapping me. So they think this. And now I have to either hide my weakness. Right. Like, don't let them exploit that in order to, like, highlight your strengths. Or in the off season, usually you're like, I'm gonna have to get better at this.

Caitlin Clark (68:03)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (68:03)

And I think. I think when I look back on your rookie year, the most impressive part outside of the numbers, which, I mean, like, literally, I had it written down. It's like you said all the. I mean, what was that? T shirt, had all the records on the back. It's like, literally everything Points of the season, three pointers made, assists, blah, blah, blah, blah. All of it. What was most impressive was not I really off the top. Can't think of anybody in their rookie year who, in real time adjusted to that and, like, took what was being called a weakness and actually turned it into a strength. So, like, let's example would be, like, they're forcing you, right?

Caitlin Clark (68:38)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (68:39)

And I think you were figuring it out, and finally you're like, I'm just gonna take it.

Caitlin Clark (68:41)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (68:42)

And you started taking it. So I don't know. I'm just curious. Like, was that. How hard was it to do that?

Caitlin Clark (68:49)

I mean, it was definitely hard. I think even, like, the floater, like, I started making some after Olympic break, and it's not like I couldn't or I can't. It's like, that's not what I had done or had to do in college. Like, I got layups and I got threes. Like, two best shots in the game still are. And I think at the professional level, like, you just have to learn to, like, do so many different things and, like, expose them for what they're gonna give you. And, like, I remember, I think we played Phoenix right out of the break, I'm pretty sure. And the first shot I made was a three coming off a ball screen, going to my right. Like, I just shot it. Like, I didn't think I came off, and I just shot it and went in. And, like, I remember, like, I was like, that felt good. Like, I just worked on that for a month. Like, nice. Awesome. It works, like, even, like, just in, like, that amount of time, like, my confidence and, like, wanting to do it and just doing it. And, like, if it goes in, it doesn't go in. Whatever, I have to shoot it. That's just reality. And then even the trap, I feel like not that many people when I've been active this year have really trapped me and AB because we were so good out of it at the end of last year. You trap. Okay, I'll hit AB she just slips out four on three advantage. Immediately, we were just so good at it. A lot of people have just been either switching 1 through 4 or even the teams that can 1 through 5 now to just try to distract me with length or just like.

Sue Bird (70:29)

Or just not try to get or.

Caitlin Clark (70:29)

Like, a hedge or just being at the point kind of thing. So I think, like, teams have kind of almost been adjusting maybe into my second year. Cause, like, I got so good out of, like, maybe doing things that they thought I couldn't do. But, like, you have to, like, you have to find a way. Right?

Sue Bird (70:45)

But so now. So this is okay. This, to me, is one of the harder things also. You have something you're great at. You want to do it, right? Like, we all have something. Whether it's a move, a shot. We want it. We want it every time. We don't want to go away from it. It's our favorite. But you have to have these counters. And it sounds like for you, as teams started forcing you, right. And pushing you into the paint, more like not wanting to give you threes, obviously, but also not giving. You had to kind of, like, get this floater off. And it's just. To me, there's a give and a take with that. So at what point are you, like, okay, sacrificing what might be your favorite shot to take? This thing you're maybe not as good at, but you have to do it. So, like, how do you balance that mentally? Cause I'll just. I'll say for me, pull up jump shots. My favorite thing. And at some point, somebody was like, hey, you're gonna have to start to, like, incorporate a floater or a runner. But I wasn't good at it.

Caitlin Clark (71:42)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (71:42)

But I saw the moments where I'm like, I have to. To shoot this.

Caitlin Clark (71:45)

Yeah. I feel, like, frustrating, definitely times where I'm still, like, in there, and it's like, ah. Or like, I go back and watch on them. It's like, I've worked on that so much. Like, why don't I just shoot it? Like, do it. But it's not, like, natural. It's not natural to you yet. And I think the only way to, like, make it natural is, like, you just gotta do it in the game, like, whether you want to or not. Like, the best way to, like, for it to come and just be a thing is, like, you just gotta shoot it in a game. Like, you can do as many reps as you want outside of practice, but, like, once you, like, get into actual flow and competition, like, that's when it's really gonna become a thing, is if you're willing to actually do it. And I think I've gotten decent at the, like, okay, I drive, right? And I think this was a learning thing for me early in my WNBA career. I would drive, right, and I would have a step on the big, but I would go for the layup, and I would just get blocked and blocked and blocked. Like Asia and Ezzy or those really long, athletic five players. You go down the list of whoever they Are. Cause you think you have a step on them and you do, but they're just longer and more athletic. Like, they're just gonna get there. There's not those players in college. So like, you kinda like. I think I've gotten pretty good at that. Like, stopping, like just enough and like the right side floater off the glass on the right side. But like, just becoming more comfortable everywhere else. But also at the same time, I think you have to remember, like, you can still get to whatever you want. Like, if you're that good at it. Like, no, it's true. Steph always says to us, like, good offense beats good defense. Like, that's just the truth at the end of the day. Like, you know, you can like have like even like when we're playing defense, like, if somebody makes a good shot, like, all right, good defense, like you did what we asked you to do, like, they made the tough shot, like, all right, you'll get them next time. Like, that's what you're gonna. You're willing to give up or whatever, you know. So like, I feel like I can always get to what I'm good at. Like, I always believe that. Like, it's just like adding more things. One, so I'm comfortable and two, like, they're not like, oh, it's just step back left or oh, it's just driving right.

Sue Bird (73:46)

Well, the more you add actually allows.

Caitlin Clark (73:48)

You to get to make it easier. Yeah, 100% to get what you want. So.

Sue Bird (73:51)

Yeah. All right. You brought up AB and the pick and roll. You guys have clearly developed over time. It hasn't even been that much time, to be honest, but over the last, like two seasons, more chemistry. What do you think it's about, like, each of your games that, that it compliments each other so well in the.

Caitlin Clark (74:05)

Pick and roll, I mean, I think she has such a good feel for the game. People don't realize that and I think that's probably like early on, us playing together, it was just the process of learning one another. And I'm sure before I got to Indiana her first year, I'm sure they weren't seeing many traps or hard edges or anything like that. So it was just a process. But I think I saw something where she's shooting like the best mid range percentage on the year. Like, she's so good at that. Like when I'm coming off, like, just hit her in the pocket, immediate shot or you know, even like driving to the rim, like, catch one, dribble body. Like, she's so strong, like People don't realize how strong she really is. And then at the same time, like she's such a great facilitator for our team. Like especially a lot when I've been out this year. Like she's been initiating a lot of our offense. Like we feel very comfortable being able to do that. Like we trust her. She's a really high IQ player. She's a good passer. Like she knows what to get us into and understands her teammates really well.

Sue Bird (75:02)

So such a luxury to have a post player that can do that. It really changes a lot.

Caitlin Clark (75:07)

Yeah. And I think she also was kind of learning.

Sue Bird (75:09)

It takes a lot of pressure too.

Caitlin Clark (75:10)

A learning thing for her too. Like when she was at South Carolina, like she played on the block like she was a true post player. Like, so when she got into the league, it was kind of just a learning process. And I think probably especially this year, you've seen it really, really translate the most. Like she's had a tremendous year. She's been, you know, one of the best post players in the league, if not the best. Like she's been amazing. She's the best all around post player in the league. I don't think it's up for question. Like she passes the ball well. She rebounds so well. She shoots the mid range jumper when she finishes well around the rim and honestly her three point shot looks really well. She just doesn't attempt enough. She attempts less than one a game. So she's made a few this season. Like you just like she hasn't got to shoot enough. So, you know, I think she still like has so much room to improve and she works really hard. So just feel very lucky and fortunate that I got to come to a place where we have such a great young post player and we get to kind of do this together.

Sue Bird (75:59)

Yeah, yeah, that is, that is special. And you guys in year one made it to the playoffs 100%. Obviously it didn't, you know, you lost in the first round or whatever.

Caitlin Clark (76:07)

But I was just talking about this like 2 days ago I had some like I was watching some old highlights or they like popped up of and of the as. Game two in Connecticut. Game one, we didn't play well. Like they just outplayed us and they won. We shot bad at, had one of those games. All of them did. It was like they were all making three, whatever and we were up or maybe we were down one or maybe we're up, I don't remember with like the last. In the last minute and like we had like Four possessions, a chance to, like, take the lead, and we turned it over literally every single time. Like, we had so many chances. We continued to get stops, and I just, like, went up to Steph and AK and every Jan and all them, and I was like, hey, like, I don't know if you guys remember this, but, like. Like, we should have beat you. Like, in game two, you're surrounded by Connecticut, literally.

Sue Bird (76:56)

I mean, obviously with Steph, I knew that, but the more you start naming.

Caitlin Clark (76:59)

Names, I'm like, Free Jan, our player development video coordinator. They're all what they say. They're like, yeah, but you didn't. And I'm like, all right. Well, it was all fate because if I would have beat you and we were going back to Indiana, like, we weren't losing that, and maybe we. You wouldn't be coaching us right now. So I just joke with them. But honestly, like, we felt really confident going into that series, and I felt like there was kind of a feeling. I don't mean. I don't know if this is true or not, but I didn't feel like anybody in the league really wanted to play us. Like, we were playing so well. We had the best. The best or maybe the second best.

Sue Bird (77:33)

Record pace you were playing with 100%. It's just. That's really hard in the playoffs.

Caitlin Clark (77:37)

Sprint, Sprint, Sprint, Sprint. Let's go.

Sue Bird (77:38)

Yeah, everyone's tired. Usually the game slows down in playoffs, but you were gonna. You were gonna make it fast. So.

Caitlin Clark (77:44)

Yeah, I was like, we just have to get it back to Indiana. We just have to get it back to Indiana. Because, I mean, I think if it would have been the format of what we're doing this year, we're game fly. Game flyback, basically. I think that would have maybe played a little bit more to Connecticut's advantage. But I think last year, all we had to do was steal one of the first two, and then we have game three at our place. Yeah, but we couldn't manage to do it, but it's okay.

Sue Bird (78:13)

What do you think, like, going into the. Actually, so now you've. Now that you had experienced playoffs and, like, the intensity does rise a little bit. You know, it's like bigger. The magnifying glass is bigger. All of it. Did you think you had to. Do you feel like you've had to change any of, like, your mental prep, not just because of the playoffs, but in general, like, something you've talked about before working with a sports psych in college? How do you feel about, like, your mental prep as You've gone through your wnbaker.

Caitlin Clark (78:40)

I feel like it's been a lot of the same. Like, still always work with sports psych. And I think that was, like, a really big part of, like, like, my evolution in college, especially junior and senior year. Like, that was really important. And especially as, like, more and more eyeballs got on me. Like, I think it's just a good reset for yourself of, like, what you're trying to achieve. And not always, like, about, like, my on court performance too, but, you know, everything else too. Like, there's just so much to manage. And then obviously, like, I feel like that's been a huge part of this year. Like, it's just been so challenging, like, being active and playing four games and then not. And, like, not feeling the best and then, like, frustrated of, like, how hard I worked in the off season. And then, like, all I do is rehab and, like, continue to do this process and just, like, trying to trust that the best I can. And obviously there's really frustrating days and there's days where, like, it's a little bit easier and, like, you're very, very motivated and, like, you're right close to the finish line of getting back and being back. And then, like. Like, it's not like, I have a training camp to, like, build up to, like, playing my first game again. It's like, no, like, you're tossed into game 30. Like, go, try to play well. Like, it's hard. Like, it really is. And I think it has given me really good perspective on, like, what a lot of my teammates and people that I've, you know, teams I've been a part of. Like, certain people have had to go through. Like, I've never been through anything like this. Like, and I think that's probably why it's been so hard because, like, I've never really dealt with injury. And that's probably been a challenge in itself because, like, when I first, like, was feeling pain, like, I didn't understand it. Like, I didn't know I was like, am I just tight? Like, am I just getting old? Do I need to hit a stretch? Do I need to get, like, a little rubbed out? Do I need some icy hot? Like, what's going on here? So I think it's been a balance of, like, understanding my body. And I know, like, you know, whether it's this year, whether it's next year, and even throughout my career, I'm gonna be very thankful for this moment. Like, there's certain.

Sue Bird (80:36)

So you can already sense that for sure.

Caitlin Clark (80:38)

Like, I know this is gonna help me, like, understand my body better. And what are you learning about being.

Sue Bird (80:45)

Like, a professional athlete through this injury or through, like, these injuries?

Caitlin Clark (80:50)

I mean, like, I don't think people on the outside always realize, like, how much time it takes to, like, be able to play at the level we play at and, like, how much extra stuff you have to do and even, like, just to prepare for a game, especially when you're coming back from injury. Like, when I'm coming back from injury and like, when I've been back a few times this year, like, the time I have to get to the arena to, like, prepare myself and prepare my body. Cause obviously, I'm doing more than everybody else just because of, like, the things I've gone through to this point. And just making sure I'm ready and doing everything I can. Like, I'm there, like, four hours early. Like, it's just hard. It makes for long days. And I'm not saying I would change that for the world, but it's just. It's just a lot at times. And then you're doing that for however many games and got.

Sue Bird (81:39)

A friend of mine, when I was still playing, we got into this argument. He was like. He kind of just said, who works more? Like someone who has a 9 to 5. I think he said Alex Rodriguez, like a professional. He was, like, using a rod, and I was like, a rod. I was like, every professional athlete works more because of that. Like, it's never off. Then you're traveling. Of course, that brings a whole other thing. I did joke that napping was also.

Caitlin Clark (82:02)

A part of sleeping. It's part of the job.

Sue Bird (82:04)

I gotta be ready. Someone else is napping.

Caitlin Clark (82:06)

Sleep is the best recovery.

Sue Bird (82:07)

But it is true that, like, those extra hours when you're injured are really the hardest part. They are like, how are you staying right now? You know, you've been out a bunch of games. How are you staying patient?

Caitlin Clark (82:22)

Well, I'm not a very patient person in life.

Sue Bird (82:25)

I think that's a challenge for anybody in this. In this moment.

Caitlin Clark (82:28)

I think the very. I think the most challenging part of, like, all this. So obviously, I have the first injury, and I sit out four games, and then I come back and I play really well.

Sue Bird (82:40)

Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (82:40)

And I feel really good. And like, even just begin the year, like, I played great. Like, I started the year really good. Like, I felt really great. Like, my numbers were great. I was shooting the ball well. And then I get hurt, and it's like, okay, like, gotta get healthy. Whatever. You're like, I'm gonna do whatever I can, you know, to get back to what I was doing and whatever. Feel good, come back. I play really good. I play really good the second game, and then we go on a road trip. And, like, I wasn't feeling the best, but I was like, ah. Like, at the same time, like, as an athlete, you're like, I don't wanna be soft. Like, you're like, am I actually. Like, do I actually feel something? Do I not? Blah, blah, blah. So I think that's been, like, the hardest part has just been, like, the stop and go of everything. And also with the type of injuries that I've dealt with, there's no real. It's not like six weeks. All right, you're coming back for the Connecticut sun game on August. It's all about how you feel or whatever. It's like, how do you feel? And even when I have been back, I don't know how I'm gonna feel the next day after playing when you're dealing with these type of injuries. So. So I think just the patience of dealing with all of that and giving myself a lot of grace and just trying to be the best teammate I can. And obviously it's hard because I'm not at every second of practice. When I've been through the early parts of rehab, obviously when I work my way back into practices, I'm there and around more. But I miss being around my teammates as much as I am, and I miss practicing. I've told people this. I love practice. I love competing. I love talking crap to the practice boys. That's one of my favorite things. And I haven't been able to do that as much. So. So just, like, trusting the process with everything and being patient.

Sue Bird (84:19)

We've all seen you on the sideline, quote, unquote. Coaching, what do you think?

Caitlin Clark (84:23)

More so, coaching the refs, what do.

Sue Bird (84:26)

You think you've learned from having to watch? Because it is a unique perspective. And you probably. I mean, you haven't had injuries, so you haven't really had that type of perspective.

Caitlin Clark (84:36)

I think it, like. And I was talking to Steph about this, like, it's so much easier said than done. Like, it gives you, like, good perspective for, like, it's so easy to be like, oh, like, why wouldn't you pass it there? Or, like, why wouldn't. Like, why did you forget to set that screen? Or why didn't you cut? Or, how did you not see this and that? And obviously, like, when I'm in the game, I'm like, everything is happening so fast, and I'm trying to watch so many different things, and, like, it's so much easier to sit on the side and be like, well, I saw this and I saw this and I saw this. Like, no, like, when you're actually in, like, the heat of things, like, the coaches give us so much grace. And, like, as teammates, like, you have to give your teammates grace, too. Of, like, they're trying to manage so much and see so many different things that one time. And especially as a point guard, like, you're trying to manage everything and running. Calling the plays and running the correct stuff and getting everybody in the right position and whatever it is so you don't always realize, like, with how fast the game's going, like, wait, so do.

Sue Bird (85:28)

You think you've learned more about and maybe have more understanding for your coaches?

Caitlin Clark (85:32)

For sure.

Sue Bird (85:33)

And their frustration?

Caitlin Clark (85:34)

For sure.

Sue Bird (85:35)

No. That's what you're saying.

Caitlin Clark (85:36)

I mean, I think just for everyone.

Sue Bird (85:39)

Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (85:39)

Yeah. No, that makes sense from all different perspectives. I feel like I would be a really good ref, though, from the side. I wouldn't miss the call.

Sue Bird (85:46)

Backseat ref. Okay, so viewership and ticket sales are, like, up across the wnba. And then, like, and they're also. When you don't play, there's a dip. Like, a substantial dip. So how do you handle. How does that. Does it impact your patience? You know what I mean? Like, you're coming back from this injury, and you know this. Everybody knows this, that when you play that. That changes. I guess the better question is, how are you, like, managing it so it doesn't impact your patients. Yeah, I know you want to be out there.

Caitlin Clark (86:16)

Definitely been hard.

Sue Bird (86:17)

Yeah.

Caitlin Clark (86:19)

Well, like, I'm gonna go to every road game no matter what, like, whether I'm playing or not. Like, and I. It's hard because obviously, I do feel this, like, responsibility of, like, being out there and playing. And, like, not that I think there's, like, a fear of any of this ever going away. Like, that doesn't happen when, like, LeBron or Steph get hurt. Like, they're always gonna be there. Like, you'll know that. Yeah, exactly. So. But, like, you do wanna play. Like, you wanna give people something to cheer about or scream about or, you know, people spend so much time and money and resources to come and watch you play. And it's been cool to, like, see people continue to show up and, like, for my teammates, whether they're, like, fans of the Fever or just fans of myself, like, they're continuing to show up and support and, like, that's why I've been trying to take as much time as I can. Like, I sign autographs for way longer when I'm hurt than when I'm active, so that's never something I wish for. But, like, you know, I still want to make as much time as I can for people and, you know, give them something that they can remember. And, you know, I think that's also been really good for me, too, is, like, when I do go out before games and, like, sign autographs and, like, see all the young kids or fans or whoever's come to the games, like, it just, like, gives me a really good perspective on everything and maybe gives me a little bit of motivation and just being thankful for everything that I have and very thankful for my fans and just the fans of the wnba of how they can constantly continue to support and truly just want the best for me, too. At the end of the day, I think that's something that's really cool. I think early on with the first couple injuries, I was like, oh, I need to get back. But I think, like, my mom texted me, like, after this last injury, and, like, they know how hard it's been on me, but my mom was like, you know, you've taken so much time for everybody else. Like, you have to take time for yourself now. So just trying to do that the best I can, too.

Sue Bird (88:07)

Yeah. I mean, listen, there's a lot of noise. There's a lot of chatter when it comes to you. In the world of women's basketball, we know this. I think the beauty of what's happening now is that's all just noise and chatter. And at the core, there's definitely this understanding I think we all had of, like, what you bring is gonna bring more, and then those people are gonna fall in love with the whole game in its entirety. And that's what's really great about the numbers, right? That has actually, like, the proof is in that pudding right now, which is great. But with the world we live in also comes, like, social commentary, social media. And I was talking about this with Megan, and she really has, like, such a. She wanted me to ask this question. Basically. It's a great question. And it's like, you go on social media, you turn the tv, right? And the issue is all the negativity and how that can impact you. But Megan always brings up this point, and she's taught me this. The other issue is all the positives, 100%, and what that can, like, this, like, diluted sense of. And so really, what it comes down to is. I think as an athlete, you know this. You have to get your confidence, like, from you. Yeah, 100%. Now, can your coaches help you build it and your parents help support you and teammates and all that? Yes. But, like, in the moment in the game when things aren't going well and you have to find it, it has to be within you. And that's where I think social media and really just the social commentary can really impact. So, like, you have faced massive praise, you have faced harsh criticism. Like, how do you approach building your own confidence and not. And really just staying true to that?

Caitlin Clark (89:38)

Yeah, I think. Well, first of all, I feel like this was something that. When I was first working with this sports psychologist and my junior year, when everything really started blowing up, this was like one of the main things we talked about, like, how it's literally like a drug. Like, you read all this stuff about yourself and you're like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. I'm so great. And then you play bad, and it's like, oh, no. So I feel like I have really good perspective on everything now. And sure, there's still hard moments, but I don't really care what people say. At the end of the day, I'm in a position where there's gonna be criticism and there's gonna be people that love me. That's what happens when you're playing sport at the highest level. It goes to. That's how it goes for everybody, whether you're a football player, basketball player, baseball player, whatever it is.

Sue Bird (90:24)

Does your confidence, though, does it just come from.

Caitlin Clark (90:26)

It comes from yourself, 100%. And I think for myself, I know how much time I've spent in the gym. I know the hours that I've put in. I know what I've been able to do over the course of my career. So it has to come from yourself and obviously your teammates, too, and your coaches. But at the end of the day, you're the one stepping on the court and performing. So you have to be confident in your abilities and what you can do. And for me, that's what I always fall back on if I have a tough game or a tough day or a tough practice. It's like everybody has those days. Not everything's gonna be perfect. But you've put in the time to be in these moments, and you deserve to be in these moments. Just trust that 100%.

Sue Bird (91:05)

It really is incredible. I was literally on a plane the other day, and it was actually a while ago. Cause your game, you were playing, and it was In Boston. This is on espn. I was on the plane. I had it on. The guy diagonal from me also had it on.

Caitlin Clark (91:17)

So I was like, dope, let's go.

Sue Bird (91:19)

You didn't have the best shooting night, but you finally hit a three, like. And you could see on your face, there was like, this man threw his hands up. He was so hyped. And the best part was, like, game ends. He gets up to, like, go in the overhead. He looks back, he sees me. And there's like this moment where, like, clearly I just saw him react that.

Caitlin Clark (91:36)

Way to this moment.

Sue Bird (91:38)

And he was just. And I was like. I was. I was like, I'm watching too.

Caitlin Clark (91:40)

Yeah, I was like, I'm watching too. We're good.

Sue Bird (91:43)

But. But with everything, it's like your relationship with the fans is so special in that way you make people feel, and I think that's really what separates you. I want to have one little fun moment here. All right, Maya Moore is one of your favorite players, knack for playing. Huge, big moments. What are your top three moments of your career so far?

Caitlin Clark (92:02)

Oh, that's so hard.

Sue Bird (92:03)

Or maybe shots.

Caitlin Clark (92:08)

Professionally or in college. Whatever you want. I would say the South Carolina game's up there. In my career.

Sue Bird (92:16)

There's one.

Caitlin Clark (92:23)

The New York game this year was pretty fun.

Sue Bird (92:25)

That was a good one.

Caitlin Clark (92:25)

There's so many I could pick. Like, this is so hard.

Sue Bird (92:28)

That's what's great.

Caitlin Clark (92:28)

Just pick three, and then I'm gonna pick probably the Indiana shot. How could I leave that out? My junior year?

Sue Bird (92:39)

Yeah, yeah, because I.

Caitlin Clark (92:40)

That might have been one of, like, the first, like, true. Like, obviously that was my junior year. We go on to make the final Four, but that, like, really kick started everything.

Sue Bird (92:49)

Yeah, that went viral.

Caitlin Clark (92:50)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (92:51)

Okay, now bench. Start. Cut them. I'm just kidding. I'm not gonna make you.

Caitlin Clark (92:55)

I know I could. You wanna do it? Okay, cut. Probably the New York game because, like, if we lost that game, it doesn't really matter. I mean, it does. Don't get me wrong.

Sue Bird (93:08)

There's no mistakes, though. It's just a regular season.

Caitlin Clark (93:10)

Start the South Carolina game and bench the Indiana shot.

Sue Bird (93:14)

All right. I love it. All right, go get the bus. Get her out of here. Thank you for coming on. All right, everybody, that's it with Caitlin Clark. I hope you enjoyed it. I was so thankful for the time that she gave me because there's so much to add. Ask Caitlyn. So much to talk about. But I really thought it was interesting to hear, you know, how she found her long distance, three just the evolution of that. To be honest, the way she was talking about college reminded me of just how young she is. I mean, college was literally yesterday for her, so there's still so much growth to be had. I think my favorite part was actually listening to her talk about her breakout game, right? It wasn't some game where she dropped 40 and all that, it just happened to be a game where she finally felt like herself. So of course wishing her the best as she gets healthy. I know that's tough as well, listening to her talk about that injury and the patience needed. Ugh, it sounds really hard, but can't wait to see her back on the court and I hope you guys enjoyed it. All right, this episode is a co production of Together and Vox Media. Our producers are Tommy Alter, Jason Gallagher, Richie Bozick, Harry Krinsky, Jess Clarendon, and Melanie Carter. And a special thanks to Ramon d'.

Caitlin Clark (94:23)

Ampour.

Sue Bird (94:25)

Support for this show comes from Google Pixel. You can make magic happen with Google Pixel. Use it to create amazing photos and videos, get more done and keep your info safe. Plus, it comes built in with Gemini, your handy AI assistant made to help supercharge your ideas, making your smartphone a smarter phone. Meet Pixel 9 Pro. A stunning new design, the advanced AI power of Gemini and their best camera yet. You can learn more about the new Google Pixel 9 with Gemini Live on the go. Google store sequences shortened. Gemini Live available for ages 18 plus, compatible with certain features and with certain accounts. Results for illustrative purposes and may vary. Check responses for accuracy. Thanks to Nike for their partnership. Sometimes winning is hard, sometimes it's painful. But Nike knows when you step on the court, it's what you came here to do. From the champions to the underdogs, from the top of their class prospects to the little brothers finally dunking on their older brother in the driveway, we all have the same goal. Win. Nike provides the best gear, products and stories to get you from the first quarter to the last. Even when you feel like you have nothing left to give. Visit nike.com for more information and be sure to follow Nike on Instagram, TikTok and other social platforms for more great basketball moments.

Caitlin Clark (95:43)

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