Sue Bird (7:13)

Oh, yeah, that is true. We'll add that.

Jackie Young (7:16)

We'll add that. Matter of fact, my final play ever in the WNBA was a turnover because you stole it. Yeah, so that's, that's, that's on there too. Yeah, but, like, but my final points.

Sue Bird (7:29)

Yeah, I knew it was coming. I knew it was coming.

Jackie Young (7:32)

My final point.

Sue Bird (7:33)

It was on me.

Jackie Young (7:34)

Was. Was on you. So. So a little bit of a. Like a blow by. Would you call it a blow by.

Sue Bird (7:37)

It was for sure that. Yeah. Still.

Jackie Young (7:40)

Hey, I don't get many retiring and.

Sue Bird (7:42)

Blew right by me. I'm like, okay, this is crazy.

Jackie Young (7:44)

No, I actually feel pretty good about that because I don't know if you saw, but that, like, GM survey came out and you're number two. You got voted second for, like, perimeter defender.

Sue Bird (7:55)

Oh, I didn't see that.

Jackie Young (7:56)

So I feel pretty good about that.

Sue Bird (7:57)

I didn't see that part.

Jackie Young (7:57)

Yeah, dijonay Carrington's right above you. But you didn't see it at all?

Sue Bird (8:01)

I didn't see that, no.

Jackie Young (8:02)

Okay, so you were. You were second in defense, voted second by the GMs, and you were fifth best shooting guard in the league.

Sue Bird (8:10)

Okay.

Jackie Young (8:10)

Any reactions to that? You feel good about that?

Sue Bird (8:12)

I mean, yeah, I mean, I think that's. That's pretty good. Yeah. Obviously, you know, try to get to the top, do whatever I can on defense. You know, I think that's. That's the biggest thing. I have the toughest assignment usually every night if it's a guard. And so just being able to stay locked in on both ends, I think is the biggest thing. And being able to play both ends of the ball.

Jackie Young (8:33)

Right. I think what's interesting. So when I think of, like your whole career, I think what's interesting is like, we're seeing this version of you now. It's the version that the GMs are voting, you know, you know, top five, top two on defense. I think a version that players would even agree with that, like, you have respect across the league, but it wasn't necessarily the case. Like, your whole WNBA career, you were, like, building to this. So when do you think, like, that shift happened for you?

Sue Bird (9:02)

I would say probably when Becky got hired, everything changed. And I think the most obvious thing was shooting threes. She called me not long after she got the job and she was like, I'm gonna need you to shoot threes. Like, you need to take at least three a game. And so once she had hired her staff, obviously everybody knows Ty. That's my guy. And so, yeah, we just got in the gym and we made, like, a few minor tweaks to my shot, and it made the biggest difference. And so what were the tweaks? Um, honestly, just. I do this thing in pregame warmups. What? Anytime I get on the court, like, I just tap my hip with the ball before all my form shooting. And so keeping it on the right side of my body, keep my chin down. Those were kind of like the biggest things.

Jackie Young (9:48)

Were you, like, coming across in a way at first?

Sue Bird (9:50)

Yeah. Like, I would come across my face a little bit and so.

Jackie Young (9:54)

So it got you, like, lined up.

Sue Bird (9:55)

Yeah. So like now it's just like, kind of how, like, I calibrate every day. So it's just like tap my hips and I go through my form shooting, and it's just like, for me, it's just like mental, you know, Like, I do that part and then like now it's like I do this part and we go straight into threes.

Jackie Young (10:07)

So, yeah, I mean, now Tyler Marsh is who you're talking about, head coach of Chicago. Now he's gonna be looking on the other end when you play them. Like, damn, what did I do? What did I do? But it's crazy because. So you're from Indiana. You went to Princeton High school. I did. You're like, leading scorer, all time leading scorer in high school Indiana history. You even, you know, more than the men. You beat out Damon Bailey's record, which is incredible. So if your shot was what it was, then, like, how do you score that many points? Like, what kind of player were you back in high school?

Sue Bird (10:38)

Yeah, I would just attack the basket, honestly, like, just try to get to the rim. And so I was able to do that my whole life until I got to the pros, you know, and then it's like, okay, you need to be able to do more and to be able to shoot the ball. And so, like, in high school, I was just having fun, you know, playing with some of my best friends, and they were getting me the ball, I was getting in the ball, and we were just having fun out there.

Jackie Young (11:01)

Hooping.

Sue Bird (11:01)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (11:01)

Yeah. I mean, Indiana is a crazy state. I feel like you did, like I mentioned a little bit, you have had, like, this evolution, so I kind of want to go through it. Growing up in Indiana, crazy state of basketball. Was there pressure to stay in state, like, to state, to go to Notre Dame and Like, what was that recruitment process like?

Sue Bird (11:19)

No, actually, there was no pressure at all. I didn't feel it. At least I knew I wanted to go to Notre Dame for a long time. I mean, it was my dream to play for PAT Summit. I grew up a Candace Parker fan. So, like, once I knew I was about to ask. Yeah, yeah. Once I knew I couldn't play for pat, then I was like, I'm definitely going to Notre Dame. And so just having, like, Skyler going to Notre Dame, being from Indiana, we kind of have, like, you know, that same story. And so I knew I was going to go to Notre Dame for a while. My family, they were Notre Dame football fans, so I actually.

Jackie Young (11:55)

So did you even look anywhere else?

Sue Bird (11:57)

Not really. I mean, I went on visits. I had offers from everywhere. Yeah.

Jackie Young (12:03)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (12:04)

But no, I knew I was going to Notre Dame, and it's like, it's still in Indiana, but it's four and a half hours away from where I grew up. So it was kind of the perfect distance. My family, they would drive up to every game unless there was too much snow, but, like, drive there and back, same day. And so, like, it was. It was just the perfect.

Jackie Young (12:24)

Did you know Skylar before?

Sue Bird (12:26)

I didn't, but I went to camp. I want to say I went to camp at Notre Dame, like, my. In fifth grade, maybe.

Jackie Young (12:31)

Okay.

Sue Bird (12:32)

And that's. Was it fifth grade or eighth grade, whichever. But, like, I went to their elite camp, and that's kind of how it started for me. Like, they didn't know anything about me. I got tickets or I got, I guess, this pass to go to camp or whatever for Christmas. And so that's how it worked out. Yeah. Kayla McBride was my first coach there, so it's cool. I got to play with her in Vegas again at unrivaled.

Jackie Young (12:58)

So unrivaled. We'll get to that in a second, too. Okay. So you said in high school, you basically just like, drove. You and your friends just having fun. You get to college. How would you describe your game in those three years?

Sue Bird (13:11)

Honestly, it was kind of still the same thing. I could still get to the basket, but shoot the three a little bit. Not very much. I think we all know, like, whenever I played, whenever we played against UConn, they left me wide open. Worked out in our favor that time.

Jackie Young (13:26)

You mean the 32 points?

Sue Bird (13:28)

Yeah, yeah. But, like, it was. I mean, my whole career has been people just daring me to shoot. And so at some point, I was like, we have to fix this, you know?

Jackie Young (13:35)

Well, I mean, here's my question, though. So I looked up some stats in college. Do you know what you shot in college from three.

Sue Bird (13:41)

Ooh, I want to go like, 23%.

Jackie Young (13:45)

In three years, you shot 37% from three.

Sue Bird (13:48)

Maybe 23 was pro or something. Yeah.

Jackie Young (13:50)

You had some ups and downs, like freshman year, 38. The down was sophomore year, dropped to 28, but then junior year, 45. But now ask me how many attempts.

Sue Bird (14:00)

Yeah, low.

Jackie Young (14:01)

0.9 your freshman year, 1 your sophomore year, and then 0.8 your junior year. So to me, what this says, it's like, these are decent percentages, given how low, which is, you could argue even harder to have a good percentage. Not you. That's. There's no room for error if you're not shooting a lot. So what was it like? Why. Why didn't you just shoot it?

Sue Bird (14:24)

I would say in college, I didn't really need to shoot it. Like, I was still scoring, still able to do what I needed to do, until I was just like, okay, like, you find like, the Yukons or something like that that's going to expose it and dare you to shoot it. And so, I mean, honestly, it was a confidence thing. Like, I could be sitting at the three, and they could be at the free throw line, and I wouldn't shoot it. And it was the same way for my first three years in the league. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's. I was able to get away with it until I finally got exposed.

Jackie Young (14:54)

Right. But, okay, so you're mentioning this UConn game. So for those that don't know, you guys played UConn in the 2018 Final Four, the semis, and you explode for 32 points. And it was in that game when you go watch it, and I remember watching it, it was in that game where it's like they were. They were basically, like, threatening you to shoot, like, begging you to shoot, but you did. You shot it. You knocked him down again, 32 points. So do you look at that moment and we'll get to how all those games ended in a second. Do you look at that moment as any kind of breakout? Like, did that give you any kind of confidence or. It was just like, that's what I did that day.

Sue Bird (15:29)

I think it was kind of just like, that's what I did that day. I knew going into the game that they were going to dare me to shoot it. And so actually, I remember Arike, like, gassing me in a locker room before, like, just go shoot it. Like, have fun, killer. Like, just be you. And so I just kind of really, like, listened to her. And I remember I was talking to Skylar, too. Like, she would, like, FaceTime, Neil. And so, like, me being from Indiana, oh, my God, it's Skylar Diggins. You know, I'm locked in. And so I think I just had a lot of confidence going into that game.

Jackie Young (16:01)

Okay, you bring up Arike. What was it like playing with her? Like, was she just always a bucket? This is just what it is.

Sue Bird (16:09)

Yeah, I think she's been a bucket her whole life. You know, she can score the ball from anywhere. And so she was able to do that in college, obviously, we know with the big shots that she hit. But, you know, she's always had that scorers mentality and has been able to get to her spots on the court and to be able to score the ball.

Jackie Young (16:28)

Yeah, so that's like, you know, it's pretty early in your career you got there. She was a sophomore year, a freshman. You played those three years. Um, do you think that it's a little bit of foreshadowing, right? Like, having to play with another great player. Do you think that playing with her that early in your career helped you, like, learn how to do that?

Sue Bird (16:47)

Yeah, I. Honestly, I haven't really thought about that, but now that you mentioned it, like, yeah, like, it really did, because, I mean, we knew that she was the star there, and it's kind of her team, you know, and that's the same thing here now. And so I think it doesn't make you take a back seat, but at the same time, like, you know, you have stars around you, and I think it kind of makes you want to become great like them. Like, I think Asia is the prime example. Whenever I could have gotten traded, she was always there, you know, and so, like, I think just seeing her, her work ethic and just how much she believes in me and all of our teammates. And so I think just not wanting to let her down, you know, making it a lot harder on her, because I knew I was gonna be on the floor. So now it's just like, okay, like, I can shoot it. I can help space the floor for you, make your job easier.

Jackie Young (17:38)

Right, right. But back to Arike's game winners. Yeah, I mean, like, what do you remember about the. I mean, they go down as two of the best all time, like, NCAA tournament. The fact that they're back to back in the semis and then the finals against Mississippi State, I actually went and rewatched. So for the UConn game winner, you were kind of like, you Were trying to come in for like a rebound. You were kind of to the side, but like, what do you remember about that? That one?

Sue Bird (18:03)

Yeah, I think just watching Rique work out, you know, just, just.

Jackie Young (18:08)

I've seen this in practice all the.

Sue Bird (18:09)

Time, you know, just hoping that that shot went in. And I think she got the space and separation that she needed and she was able to get the shot off. And yeah, I was under the basket, you know, just waiting to see maybe there's a rebound. Maybe. Not bad. I could see, like I had a great angle. Like I knew what was going in.

Jackie Young (18:24)

You knew it was going in? Yeah. Oh, man, that was crazy. I was not happy about that one for sure.

Sue Bird (18:28)

And then we almost celebrated like a little too much. Cause then, you know, they still got.

Jackie Young (18:31)

Yeah, we actually, Katie Liu got like a decent look. Yeah, I know. I was like, where was the timeout? But it's neither here nor there. You fast forward to the championship game. She hits another one against Mississippi State. This time you're inbounding it. And I've heard Arike talk about kind of like, that's not how the play was supposed to go. So take me through from your vantage point.

Sue Bird (18:50)

Yeah, the play wasn't for her, actually. We were looking at Jess.

Jackie Young (18:55)

That's crazy.

Sue Bird (18:56)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (18:56)

But think about it. That's crazy.

Sue Bird (18:57)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (18:57)

And so no offense to Jess.

Sue Bird (18:59)

Yeah, not at all. Because, I mean, she was a great player for us, you know, and that's what we. We thought. That was the look that we.

Jackie Young (19:07)

Yeah, McCown found out. So she's not in the game.

Sue Bird (19:09)

Yeah, exactly. And so I took a look. I was like, oh, yeah, I don't like it. And I had already told Rique before this, like, I'm gonna take a look at Jess. If I don't like it, come get it.

Jackie Young (19:17)

You know that's something you talked about.

Sue Bird (19:18)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So once I took that look, then like Enrique came off and the rest is history.

Jackie Young (19:23)

The rest is history. You get your first ring. First ring of many.

Pure Leaf Announcer (19:31)

Support for this show comes from pure leaf iced tea. You know that point in the afternoon when you just hit a wall. You don't have time for self care rituals or getting some fresh air. So maybe you grab a beverage to bring you back, but somehow it doesn't do the trick or it leaves you feeling even worse. What you need is a quality break, a tea break. And you can do that with pure leaf iced tea. Real brewed tea made in a variety of bold and refreshing flavors. Just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine With a pure leaf iced tea in hand, you'll be left feeling refreshed and revitalized with a new motivation to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a pure leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a pure leaf.

ACLU Announcer (20:21)

Support for the show comes from the aclu. The Trump administration is pushing a dangerous and sweeping agenda to control our bodies, our families and our lives. President Trump has signed far reaching executive orders that target transgender people, their rights and their healthcare. But the ACLU and their partners are in court fighting back. Meanwhile, the ACLU is also at the Supreme Court fighting for the future of transgender people's freedom and bodily autonomy for all. US V. Scormetti centers on a Tennessee law restricting health care access for trans youth. Tennessee has asked the Supreme Court to expand the ruling that overturned Roe vs. Wade to allow it. The fights for abortion and trans healthcare are connected. Learn more@aclu.org autonomy.

Pure Leaf Announcer (21:02)

Support for this show comes from pure leaf iced tea. You know that point in the afternoon when you just hit a wall? You don't have time for self care rituals or getting some fresh air. So maybe you grab a beverage to bring you back, but somehow it doesn't do the trick or it leaves you feeling even worse. What you need is a quality break, a tea break. And you can do that with pure leaf iced tea. Real brewed tea made in a variety of bold and refreshing flavors with just the right AM of naturally occurring caffeine. With a pure leaf iced tea in hand, you'll be left feeling refreshed and revitalized with a new motivation to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a pure leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a pure leaf.

Jackie Young (21:51)

What was it? So you, you left Notre Dame early? I did, yeah. So after three years. That's why I keep referencing those three years. Was that, was that a tough decision and like what went into your decision?

Sue Bird (22:02)

Yeah, it definitely was a tough decision. But ultimately I went to Notre Dame because I was going to get the best of both worlds and I knew that they would prepare me for the next level. But at the same time, I wanted to help my family and that has always been the most important thing. You know, I wanted to play in the WNBA in order to help provide for my family. And so if I could do that a year earlier, then that's what I was going to do. And so.

Jackie Young (22:31)

Oh, that's interesting. So part of your decision was like the Financial part, like becoming a professional to make money 100%.

Sue Bird (22:38)

To do that 100%. And I know it wasn't much, but it was a lot more than what we had. And so, yeah, I mean, it was definitely a tough decision for me, but I had to just, you know, make the best decision for myself and my family.

Jackie Young (22:54)

Yeah, absolutely.

Sue Bird (22:55)

That's what I did.

Jackie Young (22:55)

No, I love that. I love that. Because I think a lot of people. We know, a lot of people talk about the WBA from a financial standpoint, as if it's not the type of thing where you can help your family out or you can start a career in that way. I actually noticed maybe, like, two drafts ago, so not this past year, the year before, where players were starting to say that a lot like, people like Camila Cardoza is practically crying, talking about how she's gonna change her family's life. So for me, it's like, it's wonderful to hear that this is actually happening. Obviously, getting drafted now is different from when you or I got drafted.

Sue Bird (23:25)

Yeah, for sure.

Jackie Young (23:26)

But neither here nor there, you know, Jewelry. She came out after three years. She came out early. Did that. Was that, like, any part of just knowing a player had done it before? Did you talk to her?

Sue Bird (23:37)

Yeah, I think it was. I wouldn't even say easier, but I did talk to her a little bit, and I was just asking her, like, why did she choose to leave? And, like, did she think I was ready? And she's like, you're ready, dawg. Like, just do it. Like, just be you, you know? And I think that was the biggest thing, just knowing that, you know, she was a pro and had been in the league for a few years, and she thought that I was ready. But at the same time, it all came down to my family. And that's just, like, I just wanted to get, like, you know, feedback, input from other pros. And, like, I had talked to DT too. She was probably, like, one of the last people I talked to before I made my decision. But, you know, I had to make my decision, like. Yeah, so that was also another.

Jackie Young (24:22)

For those that don't know, you get, like, what, 48?

Sue Bird (24:24)

Yeah. Well, we only got 24.

Jackie Young (24:26)

Oh. Cause you went to the floor finals. Yeah.

Sue Bird (24:27)

So we had 24 hours, and, yeah, you gotta make. Obviously, we lost. So then that made it even harder. My family's with me in Tampa. Like, and so it's just, like, a lot of emotions, but at the end of the day, I knew. Like, I had a gut feeling, and so I just had to, like, follow. Follow my heart.

Jackie Young (24:47)

So, spoiler alert. You go number one. Did the Aces having the first pick, did that influence anything? Was that a part of it? No.

Sue Bird (24:55)

Okay. No. Because I didn't know that I was gonna go, like, number one or number two until after I had declared.

Jackie Young (25:01)

Okay. Then you start hearing conversations about that.

Sue Bird (25:04)

Because, like, leading up to the draft, like, I was like. I mean, not even top five. Yeah. So that didn't really matter. It was just the fact that I wanted to help my family.

Jackie Young (25:15)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (25:15)

But then as time got a little bit closer, then you started to understand.

Jackie Young (25:21)

Yeah, I was gonna. So what was draft night like for you? Like, I'm sure you're hearing. Cause I remember, like, you start to hear different people say different things about where you might go. When did you first start hearing about the number one pick? And then what was that night like?

Sue Bird (25:32)

Oh, I don't know if it was like. Well, it was right after I had declared, and they were like, she'll either go number one or number two. They weren't sure if there was gonna be a trade, but I think I was always gonna be in Vegas.

Jackie Young (25:46)

Okay.

Sue Bird (25:47)

And so, yeah, draft night was. Was crazy. Like, I think, you know, like, kind of every year, like, as I'm watching the draft, I kind of, like, go back and, like, experience, like, my draft moment. But for me, it was life changing. I have my mom, my brother, and my sister there with me. And so, yeah, just going back, looking at that, like, I'm super happy with my decision, but a lot of emotions. And I just remember being, like, super nervous. Like, almost like, blacking out. Like, I don't really, like, remember the whole. Yeah. The whole moment, you know?

Jackie Young (26:21)

Wait, when you look back, are you, like, are you happy with your outfit? Are you like, dang, I still think.

Sue Bird (26:26)

My outfit was cute. Yeah. I had a little blue dress on. Like, I don't know if I would wear that right now, but I think it's. Right now we're okay. Like, it's still working. Okay. So good.

Jackie Young (26:35)

Yeah. Wait another like, five, ten years. Yeah. That's how mine was. Like, so simple. I got lucky.

Sue Bird (26:40)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (26:40)

I wore, like, a black suit. I ended up taking the jacket off, so I just have a tank top on and black pants.

Sue Bird (26:45)

Right.

Jackie Young (26:45)

So it's like, it's not too risky. You know what I mean? So mine aged okay.

Sue Bird (26:49)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (26:50)

But it can be tricky for some. There's some fits out there where I'm.

Sue Bird (26:53)

Like, oh, yeah, looking back, I'm gonna regret that.

Jackie Young (26:55)

I'm gonna regret that. I Actually, remember when you declared, I did like an interview and someone was like, you know, who do you think's gonna be the number one pick? And I actually thought it was gonna be you. Yeah. Because at the time, like a couple of things, at the time, you were already like, established as like this two way player, you know, like, you could play both sides. Great size, versatility in that way. But also like, I saw you as like what Vegas needed.

Sue Bird (27:20)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (27:21)

Like that team we had, Asia had just finished her rookie year. Obviously I played against them and they had like something going there. And you were kind of this, like a little bit of a missing piece. I mean, fast forward, I look like a genius, but in the moment, you could still. You could still even see it. So we. You get to Vegas, it's your rookie, you're like, what is. What's your biggest adjustment at that point? Like year one, what's your biggest adjustment? And was it playing for Bill Lambert.

Sue Bird (27:49)

But playing point guard? Like, I was.

Jackie Young (27:51)

I was playing the one, so I forgot about that.

Sue Bird (27:53)

Yeah, not a one at all.

Jackie Young (27:54)

Yeah. But, hey, I guess when needed.

Sue Bird (27:57)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think that was hard for me just because I had been like. I mean, at Notre Dame, I was playing the three, and then like, sometimes like atos and stuff, I would have the ball, you know, but like, I'm not a point guard at all. So I think having to like run a team and being shy, like, it just wasn't great for me. So I think that was probably the hardest adjustment. Like every day was like a test to, like, be able to lock in on the basketball court, but be able to come out of my shell. Because at the end of the day, like, I'm running the wand. I'm supposed to be telling people, like, what they're doing, you know?

Jackie Young (28:31)

Yeah. A lot of people don't know that. Your season both for you, was a success. You made all rookie team, but also your team. You guys were. You guys were good. And then what was it like midway through the season, Asia hurt her ankle, and that kind of put you in a place where wnba, it's like, everyone, the season is so short. It's like long, but so short. If you lose a player like that for however long, couple of weeks, it can really impact everything.

Sue Bird (28:57)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (28:58)

So speaking of Asia, like, what was. What was like, your initial kind of reactions to meeting her, being around her?

Sue Bird (29:07)

Yeah, I talked to her, I want to say, on draft night, and like, literally since day one, she took me under her wing and kind of just like showed me the way she had just gone through it. And so, I mean, I knew, like, early on that she was great, but I think the biggest thing is she's a better person than she is, you know, player. I mean, she's a great player, too, but, like, at the end of the day, like, with all the success that she has, she always checks on us, you know, and make sure that we're good. And so just the way that she just leads the team by example. And I mean, it's a lot with her. It's a lot. Just like I said earlier, whenever I could have gotten traded, and she kind of just stuck through it with me.

Jackie Young (29:57)

What do you mean, when you could have gotten traded?

Sue Bird (29:59)

Yeah, like, I heard, like, at one point it was like Washington was calling.

Jackie Young (30:03)

Really?

Sue Bird (30:03)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (30:04)

What year is this? Like, pre Becky?

Sue Bird (30:08)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (30:09)

Okay. Before Becky.

Sue Bird (30:10)

Before Becky. Yeah, like, when I was pre Becky. Yeah, when I was. When I was bad. Yeah. And so. Yeah, so it just took me a little bit longer to, you know, adjust to.

Jackie Young (30:18)

So you heard that mid season that conversations were happening?

Sue Bird (30:22)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (30:22)

Like, around getting traded.

Sue Bird (30:24)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (30:25)

What was that? How did that impact you?

Sue Bird (30:28)

I mean, I think it makes, you know, like, this is real, you know, like, lock in, like, you have to be better. And so that's. For me, like, every off season, I try to come back a better player, like, each year. And so, yeah, I mean, Asia's great, and she's helped me. This is. I'm going into my seventh year now, and she's been here the whole time just making sure I'm good, you know, pushing me, believing, making sure I have the same confidence in myself that she has in me.

Jackie Young (31:00)

What is it about? Because by the way, just outside looking in, like, whether it's on social media or just the way you guys interact with each other, you can tell that she's that kind of a leader. You can tell that. I don't know. There's like, something. You guys always have good vibes, good chemistry, both. Like, you take it seriously when you need to take it seriously, but then you have fun when it's time to have fun. And I feel like she kind of leads the way in that. But. But I'm curious if there's anything about, like, her routine and her process that you think goes unnoticed by people from the outside.

Sue Bird (31:31)

Yeah, I think the amount of time that she puts in, like, people don't know the work that she's putting in, the late nights, the early mornings, staying after practice to become great. And so that's the stuff that she doesn't let the outside world see. But I think, you know, just we know that she's the star of the team. This is her team, but she takes care of everyone. Yeah. No matter if you're a starter, if you aren't getting any minutes, like, she has her own relationship with each person and makes everyone feel special.

Jackie Young (32:06)

Okay, so real quick, you had mentioned, like, playing with Urique, right? Like you learning how to play with a star player. Now with Asia, you're also, you know, because of that experience, you're able to take that outside of three point shooting, which I know is a big part of the shift that we're about to get to. Outside of that, is there anything else that, you know, you feel like you had to do to compliment Asia?

Sue Bird (32:31)

I mean, it was. It was tough at first, you know, just being able to adjust to the speed of the game, the pace, the physicality, all of that. But then just being able to play with an actual superstar, but at the same time thinking, like, no back seats. Like, that's something that me and Tyler always say, like, no back seats. Like, we know Asia's a star, but you still have to do your part.

Jackie Young (32:59)

Right.

Sue Bird (32:59)

And it makes her job ten times easier.

Jackie Young (33:01)

Right. So, yeah, that's cool. Okay, so I already mentioned 2019. Great rookie year. You make the rookie team and you start every game. But then we get to 2020, which is the bubble season, and you don't start.

Sue Bird (33:15)

Right.

Jackie Young (33:15)

So that had to have been difficult. Like, so what was that like for you?

Sue Bird (33:19)

Yeah, it was difficult, but at the same time, I knew I was still going to get minutes, and so I just tried to.

Jackie Young (33:25)

You're. So your minutes were actually higher in 2020.

Sue Bird (33:28)

And so, like, Bill had talked to me and he was just like, we need a spark off the bench. And so I didn't get in my head too much and think like, oh, like I'm not starting, like, I'm not going to have an impact or anything like that because I was still playing more and I was able to come in and they wanted, like a. A spark on defense and on offense, too. And so it was different for me, but at the same time, I just tried to, you know, switch my mindset and still have a positive mindset going into it.

Jackie Young (33:56)

Right. So that season, you guys go to the finals, obviously you played us well. First of all, you know what I remember about that? The game one and game two were like, we would get these leads, you guys would come back. We'd get these leads, you guys come back. That. But then game three Was. It felt like everyone was like, let's just go home. Yeah, like, that's okay. Is that how it felt on your side? We were always so curious. No, because we wanted to go home.

Sue Bird (34:18)

Yeah, for sure.

Jackie Young (34:18)

Like, let's just get out of here.

Sue Bird (34:20)

Yeah. Everybody was tired of being in there.

Jackie Young (34:22)

Yeah. And then, remember, by the end, they kind of made. So in the. In our bubble season, some of us were in the hotel. Some people had, like, villas. But by the end, as it started getting like. Like, less and less teams, they moved everyone to the hotel. So then it was just us. Yeah, it was just your team. Our team, just, like, in the hotel.

Sue Bird (34:39)

And just, like, passing by.

Jackie Young (34:41)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (34:41)

Yeah. We just got smacked. But here, like, you know, so.

Jackie Young (34:46)

So losing in that finals, how do you think that, like, motivated you?

Sue Bird (34:50)

Yeah, I think it. It definitely motivated us. And then we also had, like, experience, like, okay, now we've been here before, and we know how to, you know, handle this, and it sucks, you know, making it that far to lose. And so it's like, okay, we want to be on the other side of this. But I think it taught us a lot, you know, And, I mean, you guys were obviously great that year, so it was already tough, you know, going into it, just with the circumstances, being in the bubble. But I think it kind of helped us for the championships that we did win. Yeah.

Jackie Young (35:25)

I mean, so this is. I like to remind people of this sometimes, like in the wnba. Yes. The best team generally wins. Right. Like, or if there's like, two, three best teams, quote, unquote, somebody rises to the top. But there's always a little bit of luck. And you guys lost Derek at Hamby that year, like, right before the Finals. And I look back on that series, I mean, it could have been totally different right now. The same can be said for other teams at different points, but there's always, like, a little bit of luck. And I bring that up because we fast forward to the next year. Chelsea Gray joins the team, and that kind of changes everything. Right. Like, now you've got the point. God. Entering the picture. Talk about. Talk about playing with Chelsea.

Sue Bird (36:11)

Yeah. I think Chelsea coming to the Aces kind of changed everything for us. Everyone knows what she can do on the court, but I think it's just the leadership that she brought. You know, she had won before, and she's a vet, and so I kind of really just like, latched onto her. Like, you know me, I'm always asking questions. I'm going to be right there. And so she just kind of changed it for us, really. I mean, whether she's on the board or just her voice, her leadership and just the way that she sees the game, like, I mean, even today I'm always in her bag trying to steal something, you know. So I think just having her there and then her combined with a, like. Yeah, it brought a different look for us for sure.

Jackie Young (36:59)

Yeah, you guys had high expectations that season. Yeah, 2021 had high expectations, but you lose kind of sort of unexpectedly. Like Phoenix was tough and 2021 was a really interesting year. I think in the WNBA, it really was anyone's year.

Sue Bird (37:16)

Right.

Jackie Young (37:17)

Like, I don't remember exact seeding, but like Phoenix and Chicago who got to the finals, they were not. They were like a five and a six. So it was a weird year in that way. But I'm sure losing in the semis to them five game series came down to the end was. Was tough. So having back to back losses, you know, you didn't have Plum either in the 2020 season, but now you kind of are at full strength, but you still, you still lose in the semis. I imagine the back to back, like playoff losses was. Was tough.

Sue Bird (37:48)

Yeah, for sure. But I think we kind of used that as a learning experience, you know, and kind of got us over the hump. Like, okay, now we've been here before, we have the pieces that we need and now we just have to put it together. And so I think having Chelsea being a vet and like her just talking us through kind of like our championship run and obviously not winning and then winning the following year. And so, I mean, just having great vets around us I think was the biggest thing. But then obviously, you know, Becky is great. Yeah, Becky. Becky's great. Yeah. I mean, I always say, like, Tyler and Becky changed my career for sure. And yeah, I mean, just by shooting threes and then obviously starting to expand off of that. But yeah, I think getting there in the bubble and then again against Phoenix, it's crazy. We actually just talked about that because Dana was like, yeah, we didn't want to see y' all in the finals. It's like we're this close. We were this close. Yeah.

Jackie Young (38:56)

Yeah. I wouldn't want to see you in the finals that year either.

Sue Bird (38:58)

Yeah.

Pure Leaf Announcer (39:00)

Support for this show comes from pure leaf iced tea. You know that point in the afternoon when you just hit a wall. You don't have time for self care rituals or getting some fresh air, so maybe you grab a beverage to bring you back, but somehow it doesn't do the trick or it leaves you feeling even worse. What you need is a quality break, a tea break. And you can do that with Pure Leaf iced tea, real brewed tea made in a variety of bold and refreshing flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. With a Pure Leaf iced Tea tea in hand, you'll be left feeling refreshed and revitalized with a new motivation to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a Pure Leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a Pure leaf.

ACLU Announcer (39:51)

Summer's here and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dress season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways in your everyday wardrobe. Discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly and Madewell. It's easy too, with free shipping and free returns in store order pickup and more. Shop today in stores online@nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from EBGLIS. After an initial dosing phase of 16 weeks, about 4 in 10 people taking EVGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin, and most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

E (40:38)

EVGLIS Lebricizumab LBKZ a 250mg per 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief?

ACLU Announcer (41:12)

Ask your doctor about EBGLIS and visit epgliss.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

Jackie Young (41:20)

Speaking of other like life changing, career changing moments, you also were an Olympian that year in Tokyo. I need to understand and hear the story about you sitting on a beach and getting a phone call. Can you take us through that?

Sue Bird (41:35)

Yeah. So I was in. I was in Florida. I don't remember exactly where, but I was with my sister and a couple of our best friends. And so, like, I would never go on vacation ever. Like, obviously, growing up, we didn't go on vacation, but, like, this morning, like, okay, like, let's go. So I'm like, guys, I only got, like, four days in me. Like, that's it.

Jackie Young (41:52)

Like.

Sue Bird (41:52)

And so then it was, like, late at night, the night before we're supposed to leave, and I see, like, this number. I think it was, like, a Philly number or something. Like, like, all right, maybe I should answer this. I answer it. And then as he started talking, he's like, hey, what are you doing?

Jackie Young (42:11)

Busy?

Sue Bird (42:11)

Yeah, like, where are you? And I was like, oh.

Jackie Young (42:13)

Like, do you have Covid?

Sue Bird (42:14)

Yeah, that was a question, too.

Jackie Young (42:16)

Oh, I bet.

Sue Bird (42:16)

Yeah. I was like, oh, you know, I just been in Florida. Like, he's like, oh, like. Like, that changed it. And then he was just like, you know, like, somebody. We think somebody tested positive for Covid. We need you in Vegas tomorrow morning. It worked out. Like, I was leaving that day anyway. I obviously would have left anyway. So I flew out to Vegas and started going through the testing protocol myself. Ended up being negative. And then I run into Chelsea, and a. Like, as I'm getting tested, they're like, what are you doing here? And I was like, oh, gosh. Like, I wasn't saying. Yeah, I was like, I wasn't saying anything because I didn't know if I had it or not. Like, you know, like, I'm just chilling, whatever. And so they see me. But, like, that was honestly, like, the craziest, like, 24 hours of my life because I fly back to Vegas, go through the testing, and it's like, okay, now you're. This person does have Covid. We need you to fly to Tokyo. So I. I flew to Tokyo. I want to say, like, I left Florida on Sunday, flew to Tokyo on Tuesday. And so, like.

Jackie Young (43:21)

And you're, like, playing on Thursday?

Sue Bird (43:22)

Yeah. Yeah. It was that fast. Until, like, they're teaching me to plays. Like, obviously, like, I'm thinking, like, I didn't make the team, so I hadn't been playing three on three. Like, you know, like, I'm just going to be watching. And so now it's like, I have to completely flip my mindset and be able to pick up on these plays, the defensive schemes, everything. But, I mean, honestly, worth it. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't change it, obviously.

Jackie Young (43:44)

From what I understand, like, for those that don't know, the 3x3 national team process is like this whole crazy point situation where you got to play in, like, sanction three on three events to get points, gain points. You were, I think, like the only one eligible to replace Katie Liu Samuelsson.

Sue Bird (44:02)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (44:02)

Like, who's the one who got Covid?

Sue Bird (44:03)

Right. Yeah, I had played in the camps, like leading up to it, getting all the points, just unfortunately didn't make the team. And then she tested positive and so I got the call.

Jackie Young (44:15)

That's crazy.

Sue Bird (44:15)

Yeah, it was crazy, for sure.

Jackie Young (44:18)

Yeah. So in your career, you've played overseas a bunch. You played in Turkey, Israel, Australia, which outside looking in, I just remember again, mostly on social media, like you were playing really well. Like something was building and that was like 2021 into 2022. And now we finally have arrived at what I call. I mean, I'm not joking when I say this. Your jump from just 2021 to 2022 is probably one of the biggest leaps I've ever seen in my career. Just seeing a player what felt like overnight change their game. But in reality, and you've said it, it really was just your three point shooting. You kind of had everything else up until that point. You know, from 2019, you're shooting like 32% again, not terrible percentages. 23, 25.

Sue Bird (45:08)

Yeah. See, I knew there was 2020.

Jackie Young (45:10)

Yeah. I'm not gonna lie to you. The scour report was go under. You know that. Yeah.

Sue Bird (45:15)

Why are we going over? There's no reason.

Jackie Young (45:16)

Even when we played you in the final, it was like, go under and honestly be in help. This is the one we can help off of.

Sue Bird (45:24)

Yeah, for sure.

Jackie Young (45:24)

But again, your attempts were so low, it's crazy. And then in 2022, you jump up to 43% on three and a half attempts. 2023, 45% on five attempts. And then last year you shot 34%, but on five and a half attempts. So, I mean, it's really incredible. And we already. We already talked about Tyler and the impact there. Tell me about Becky's impact on you in this way.

Sue Bird (45:52)

Yeah, I think it's just the confidence that she had in me. You know, she was very vocal about it. She was vocal about what she needed from me. And so for me, it was just like, okay, if she has this confidence in me, I have to have the same confidence in myself. And so I kind of just like flipped up my mindset and then I just got in the gym and I was just working my butt off, you know, every day so that I had confidence, so that I would have confidence in order to shoot in the games. Because we all know that I'll be staying at the three, and you could be at the free throw line wherever.

Jackie Young (46:28)

You want to be.

Sue Bird (46:28)

Yeah, it really is.

Jackie Young (46:29)

It really is.

Sue Bird (46:30)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (46:30)

That's a mental hurdle you had to get over.

Sue Bird (46:32)

Yeah, for sure. And I think it was just, you know, like, positive self talk. I had like a. A sports therapist and things like that, so kind of like talking me through it a little bit, and I think that's the biggest thing. But I think Becky's impact and just kind of like the swag that she brings, the confidence that she brings, and then me just having a whole lot of respect for her, you know, and for my teammates, and it's just like, okay, I want to be the best player that I can be so that we can win.

Jackie Young (47:02)

Well, you do. You go on to win. You win your first of two. Obviously, you guys went back to back starting in 2022, but you also win most improved player. What's your take on most improve? Because, you know, Plum. Plum won it either the year before, the year before that, and she was like, I don't want this shit. She's like, I don't want most improved. Do you have, like, a take on that? Are you proud of that?

Sue Bird (47:21)

I mean, I am proud of it, yeah. Like, it was a long journey for me. We know my first three years in league were very difficult. And so, yeah, I'm proud of being the most improved player that year. And I think it just shows how much work that you put in. And it's hard, whether it's a mindset or all the physical aspects, but, yeah, I think being rewarded for that is pretty cool and pretty special. And, yeah, it's cool to see and, like, look back at some of the most improved players and see, like, where they're at today.

Jackie Young (47:59)

Yo, you know what the craziest part is? I always thought, this is so weird. Leilani Mitchell won it twice. I'm like, is that.

Sue Bird (48:05)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (48:05)

Should you be like, once you win it, once you're out, that's it?

Sue Bird (48:08)

I don't know. But if you have, like a jump again, like, but what if you, like.

Jackie Young (48:12)

Go back down and then you go back up?

Sue Bird (48:13)

Yeah, I don't. I don't think it works that way. Only if you're like, okay, you got.

Jackie Young (48:17)

To just keep going up, keep going. Okay, fair.

Sue Bird (48:19)

Like significantly.

Jackie Young (48:20)

Yeah. So like I said, you guys went back to back Actually, real quick, which was harder, the first one in 2022 or the second one in 2023?

Sue Bird (48:28)

Oh, I mean, the second one is hard, I think harder because you have that target on your back.

Jackie Young (48:34)

Yeah.

Sue Bird (48:35)

And everybody wants to beat the champs, you know, and so just dealing with that, you know, everybody's playing their best game against you every night, so.

Jackie Young (48:42)

That's true.

Sue Bird (48:43)

Yeah, I think. I think we're in the second one.

Jackie Young (48:44)

Okay, well, 2023 did end up becoming, like, this year of super teams. So first of all, like, what's your thoughts? Do you have a thought on being called a super team that year?

Sue Bird (48:54)

Yeah, I mean, I don't necessarily think we were a super team. You know, like, these were some of the pieces that we drafted. And so we were together for years, you know, and finally got to that point where we were winning.

Jackie Young (49:08)

Yeah. Yeah, you. That's also when the Liberty rivalry starts to take off a little bit. You know, you guys got them in 2023, then they got you in 2024. It's always so fascinating because these are players that, you know, you're playing with, obviously your teammates in Vegas, but then you Fast forward to 2024, and you're playing with the Liberty players at the Olympics. Is it weird to have to do that?

Sue Bird (49:36)

For me? No, not at all.

Jackie Young (49:38)

For me, it wasn't weird either. Yeah. It's just, like, it is what it is.

Sue Bird (49:40)

Yeah. Like, you're playing on the Olympic team, the national team, you know, and so, like, it's not a hard switch for me. Like, I'm super blessed, and I, like, happy to be here. So it's easy for me to switch that. That mindset. And a lot of times, like, me and Sabrina, we would shoot together after practice. And so I think at the end of the day, we're all coming together and we all have the same goal, and that's winning gold.

Jackie Young (50:05)

Right? Right. Yeah. I don't think. I know people ask that question all the time, and I kind of wanted to ask it to see if you had a different take, but it's like, nah, we'll probably go to dinner after. Also, like, it's not that big of a deal, but 2024 was a tough year for you post Olympics. We had talked prior to starting this, so I'll just mention it quickly. You had some calf stuff going on prior to the Olympics, but then in the gold medal game, you ended up hurting your knee a little bit. So just what was it like? Being injured and having to play through it is always, always tough, honestly, Your team was banged up that whole year. Chelsea missed a bunch of games. By the way, do you know that your assists, like, skyrocketed?

Sue Bird (50:43)

I don't know what the number was, bro.

Jackie Young (50:45)

You were like, in 2024, your assist jumped from 3.8 to 5.3.

Sue Bird (50:52)

Really?

Jackie Young (50:52)

So the playmaking. Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure some of that was. Chelsea wasn't there. You had to do a lot of the playmaking, but just FYI, so you got that. Don't forget about that part. But you had to play, like, sub 100% for majority of that final run. How's your knee? Are you healthy now? And then if you could take us back to 2024 in that run, just how frustrating that was.

Sue Bird (51:15)

Yeah, I guess I'll start with yeah. Coming, I guess, off the Olympics gold medal game is whenever I knew, like, oh, yeah, like, something's not right here. And so actually after the game, like, I couldn't even, like, straighten my knee all the way. Like, it was just, like. It was just like, Yeah. I don't know what was going on. Like, even getting on up on the podium to get our gold medals, like, so, like, I'm in pain this whole time. And then. Yeah. So then we come back over here, like, to the United States, and I'm like, nah, something's not right. And then I was just like, okay, I know, like, my knee is messed up, but let's try to get through this. And so I tried to finish the rest of the season. Ended up being trash, obviously, but I'm.

Jackie Young (52:03)

Like, you weren't trash.

Sue Bird (52:04)

Oh, but definitely, but. And, you know, like, you're getting all this stuff from social media, whatever.

Jackie Young (52:09)

Stay off social media.

Sue Bird (52:10)

Yeah, yeah. I'm just like, Like, I know I'm hurt. The team knows I'm hurt. Like, we're just trying to figure this out. And so, yeah, I mean, it was frustrating, you know, going from playing so well to, like, having a significant drop off and us being the only people that know. And so that's the hardest part. Yeah. Yeah. And so trying to just, you know, like, make sure that you're good and not worry about, like, what everybody's saying on social media and just staying true to yourself and keeping, you know, your circle small and just being you. But, yeah, so that went on for a while, and then I played unrivaled. Still wasn't myself, really. Tried to come back too early. But now I think we're finally back to where we need to be. I feel good. We're in a good spot all right.

Jackie Young (53:02)

That'S good to hear. I got a couple more for you. We're now at the 2025 season. It has started. The season's gonna look a little different for you guys given the trade, but before we get to that, that you can make an argument that the backcourt of you, Plum, and Chelsea is one of the best in WNB history. I would say you could put, like, moan Maya, Lindsay Whelan in that. There's, like, a Diana Cappy, Penny argument. But where do you think you stack up in that argument?

Sue Bird (53:36)

We actually talked about this not too long ago, but I think, you know, we were one of the best backcourts then. I think everybody was, like, flirting with, you know, 50, 40, 90 that year. That would have been 20, 22. And so, like, we're. We're all playing great and just really flowing and playing with a lot of fun. And I. So I think, yeah, I mean, looking back at that, we were tough that year, but, yeah, I'm gonna put us up there. I mean, I guess, you know, we won, so. Yeah, we'll go with.

Jackie Young (54:07)

Yeah. Does it make you sad that the backcourt, in a sense, like, won't get to. You won't get to see, like, how many it could have won?

Sue Bird (54:14)

Yeah.

Jackie Young (54:15)

And by the way, that doesn't mean you're not moving on. Doesn't mean you're not okay with everything. I feel like I can think of teams I was on where I'm like, man, yeah, I wonder what would have happened if we had, like, four more years.

Sue Bird (54:24)

Yeah, yeah. No, we talk about this, like, how hard it is to win three in a row and kind of how hard it'll be to do it again. And so, like, there's just, like, a couple things that, like, we wish we would have done differently, you know, and so it's just. It's hard to win one. It's hard to win back to back, and obviously, we didn't get that third one. And so, yeah, I mean, like, looking back, it is. It is sad. Like, dang, like, you know, we're not gonna have this opportunity again, but then also being, I guess, okay with what we accomplished during those few years.

Jackie Young (55:02)

Yeah, you should be very, very okay with that. So the trade happens. So Kelsey Plum is no longer here, but Jewel Lloyd is. What is she bringing to the group?

Sue Bird (55:13)

Yeah, Jewel is great. You know, she's one, and she's a vet. I think, you know, her work ethic, just being able to be in the gym with her every day and see the work that she puts in, you know, how early she gets in to get her work done and then just being able to stay with her after practice and get shots up. But she's great. You know, she's not obviously the loudest in the room, but I think her presence speaks for herself. And like, you look over there, like, that's Jewel Lloyd. And she's my teammate, you know, so being on this side of it with her and not having to guard her.

Jackie Young (55:50)

Guard her.

Sue Bird (55:50)

Yeah, yeah. Like, it's cool. I think it's gonna be fun. And it has been fun, you know, just playing with her for these past couple weeks. But, I mean, Jewel's great. Yeah, I mean, I love Jewel, so.

Jackie Young (56:03)

Yeah, you got that Notre Dame thing.

Sue Bird (56:05)

Yeah, for sure. Kind of. Kind of the same story, really. So, like, being able to, like, be teammates, you know, in the pros is pretty special.

Jackie Young (56:14)

That's awesome. So what gets the Aces a ring this year?

Sue Bird (56:18)

I would say, you know, the sacrifices that we're making in order to get the job done. We know that we all are coming here to win a championship. And so I think everyone just having that winning mentality, Winning mentality and mindset and knowing that the goal is a championship, and so whatever that takes, whatever that looks like, whether it's on the defensive side, the offensive side. Yeah. I think everybody just knowing that we all have the same goal.

Jackie Young (56:51)

All right, there it is. Jackie, thanks so much for coming in. I really appreciate it.

Sue Bird (56:55)

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Good luck to you. Thank you.

Jackie Young (57:00)

All right. You heard it from Jackie. I mean, I said it on the pod. I don't know that I've seen like a turnaround like that. What she did in 2022, the ability to go from not being a three point threat to being like a very efficient three point threat was truly amazing. Something that we didn't get into, you know. Not only that, Jackie is, you know, as of last year, one of the best finishers at the rim among guards, shooting 73.8% and she's fourth in mid range, shooting at 44.3%. And that was last season. So she's got a complete game and it really is fun to watch her. I think my favorite part was just hearing her talk about how playing with other great players allowed her to find her own greatness. But more than anything, being around coaches that believed in her really helped turn things around. I can think of, honestly, tons of coaches. I'm lucky in that way. Brian Agler comes to mind. He joined the storm in 2008, and I was in a place where I was kind of plateauing. He gave me confidence and then everyone's heard me talk about Jenny Busek and the impact she's had on my career. So that really resonated. And I guess I'm just going to finish it off with Jackie's own words. No back seats. See you next week. This episode is a co production of Together and Vox Media. Our producers are Tommy Alter, Jason Gallagher, Richie Bozek, Harry Krinsky, Jess Clarendon and Jasmine Ellis.

Sue Bird (58:21)

Noses.

Pure Leaf Announcer (58:24)

Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea when you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need Pure Leaf iced tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a Pure Leaf Iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a Pure leaf.

ACLU Announcer (58:55)

Support for the show comes from the aclu. The Trump administration is pushing a dangerous and sweeping agenda to control our bodies, our families and our lives. President Trump has signed far reaching executive orders that target transgender people, their rights and their health care, but the ACLU and their partners are in court fighting back. Meanwhile, the ACLU's also at the Supreme Court fighting for the future of transgender people's freedom and bodily autonomy for all. US v. Scormetti centers on a Tennessee law restricting health care access for trans youth. Tennessee has asked the Supreme Court to expand the ruling that overturned Roe vs. Wade to allow it. The fights for abortion and trans healthcare are connected. Learn more@aclu.org autonomy.