Kayla Thornton on Going from Undrafted to the Valkyries’ First WNBA All-Star

Summary

Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird Episode Summary: "Kayla Thornton on Going from Undrafted to the Valkyries’ First WNBA All-Star" Release Date: July 25, 2025

In this compelling episode of Bird's Eye View, host Sue Bird delves into the inspiring journey of Kayla Thornton, highlighting her transformation from an undrafted player to becoming the first WNBA All-Star for the Golden State Valkyries. Featuring an in-depth interview with Nafeesa Collier, Thornton not only shares her personal triumphs but also offers valuable insights into perseverance, adaptation, and excellence in women's basketball.

---

Introduction and Episode Overview

The episode kicks off with Kayla Thornton excitedly recounting the success of the recent live show in Indiana, emphasizing the vibrant energy and memorable moments from the Skills Challenge, Three-Point Contest, and the All-Star Game.

Kayla Thornton [01:08]:

"We had a great turnout, great guests, great energy... Honestly, the whole weekend had that vibe from the live shows that we did, to Friday night Skills Challenge, the three-point contest and then to the actual All Star Game."

---

Exploring the 50, 40, 90 Club

Sue Bird introduces a special segment using Google Pixel's Gemini AI to dissect the elusive 50, 40, 90 club—a benchmark of shooting excellence in basketball. The discussion highlights the difficulty of achieving these statistics and what it signifies about a player's efficiency.

Sue Bird [02:12]:

"Getting in the 50, 40, 90 club is hard. In the WNBA, there's only been one player to ever do it."

Through a dynamic exchange with Gemini AI, the segment underscores why maintaining a 90% free-throw percentage is particularly challenging and identifies the types of players who typically attain such high efficiency.

Gemini AI [02:51]:

"While all three percentages are impressive, hitting 90% from the free throw line is generally considered the most challenging."

---

Live Show Highlights and Guest Introduction

Transitioning from the analytical discussion, Kayla Thornton provides a preview of her live show and introduces the guest of honor, Nafeesa Collier, whose remarkable ascent in the WNBA serves as a testament to resilience and dedication.

Kayla Thornton [05:36]:

"My next guest is making history this season. She is not just having a breakout year; she's doing it as the very first All-Star in franchise history for the Golden State Valkyries."

---

In-Depth Interview with Nafeesa Collier

Early Life and College Career

Nafeesa Collier shares her athletic background, revealing that she initially focused on track before transitioning to basketball in high school. Her natural athleticism and determination set the foundation for her future in the sport.

Nafeesa Collier [13:50]:

"To be honest with you, I didn't really start playing basketball until like I was maybe high school."

Challenges of Entering the WNBA

Collier recounts the hurdles she faced being undrafted, including her initial training camp experience with Washington and the subsequent waiving. Her emotional response to being cut underscores the harsh realities aspiring WNBA players often encounter.

Nafeesa Collier [18:41]:

"I had to, like, decide like, okay, is that it? Or am I going to keep going... I decided to go, you know, the route of I'm not going to let this stop me."

Overseas Experience and Growth

Determined to improve, Collier played overseas in South Korea and Israel. These experiences not only enhanced her skills but also fortified her mental toughness, preparing her for future opportunities in the WNBA.

Nafeesa Collier [25:00]:

"Playing overseas... really helped and just made me have this fire."

Success with Dallas and New York

After returning to the WNBA, Collier secured a spot with the Dallas team, where she honed her defensive prowess. Her subsequent trade to the New York Liberty marked a pivotal moment, leading to her first All-Star selection.

Nafeesa Collier [35:57]:

"We are a team that understands the goal that we wanted. Being selfless and understanding your role is a part of winning the championship."

Becoming the First All-Star for Golden State Valkyries

Collier's election as an All-Star is a crowning achievement in her career. She reflects on the significance of this milestone, attributing her success to unwavering faith, relentless hard work, and the support of her mentors and coaches.

Nafeesa Collier [68:20]:

"It's a blessing and, you know, it goes all to God... All my hard work is now coming to pass."

---

Insights on Defense and Player Development

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Collier’s defensive skills and her role as a 3-and-D player—an essential position in modern basketball that demands both defensive excellence and three-point shooting capability.

Kayla Thornton [34:43]:

"What are some of the three and D players that have been in our league successfully?"

Nafeesa Collier [35:38]:

"I think being a defensive mindset and executing on offense as well helped me stay on the floor where I can be a stretch and score while also playing defense."

Collier emphasizes the importance of understanding opponents, film study, and maintaining mental fortitude to excel defensively.

Nafeesa Collier [37:14]:

"Defense is understanding who you're playing. That's half of the job."

---

Building a Legacy with the Golden State Valkyries

As the first All-Star for the Valkyries, Collier discusses her role in shaping the new franchise. Her leadership, combined with a strong team ethos, positions the Valkyries as a formidable contender in the league.

Nafeesa Collier [62:39]:

"It's an honor. It's a testament to our players, our coaches, the hard work we put in."

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with heartfelt reflections on Collier’s journey, her pride in her accomplishments, and her vision for the future with the Golden State Valkyries. Her story serves as an inspiring example of overcoming adversity and achieving greatness through resilience and teamwork.

Nafeesa Collier [65:39]:

"This is a first of a lifetime for all of it... I could take a little bit of pride in that and just be thankful."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sue Bird [02:12]: "Getting in the 50, 40, 90 club is hard."
• Nafeesa Collier [18:41]: "I'm not going to let this stop me."
• Nafeesa Collier [25:00]: "Playing overseas... really helped and just made me have this fire."
• Nafeesa Collier [37:14]: "Defense is understanding who you're playing. That's half of the job."
• Nafeesa Collier [68:20]: "It's a blessing... All my hard work is now coming to pass."

---

Key Takeaways

• Resilience and Determination: Collier’s undrafted status did not deter her; instead, it fueled her determination to improve and succeed.
• Importance of Overseas Play: Her time playing internationally was instrumental in developing her skills and mental toughness.
• Role of Coaching and Mentorship: Support from coaches like Sydney Parsons and Kelly Wilson was crucial in her development as a 3-and-D player.
• Legacy Building: As the first All-Star for the Valkyries, Collier is not only achieving personal success but also laying the foundation for a new franchise.
• Team Ethos and Selflessness: Emphasizing teamwork and understanding one's role contributes significantly to team success and personal growth.

---

Conclusion

Sue Bird's interview with Kayla Thornton and Nafeesa Collier offers an inspiring narrative of overcoming obstacles and achieving excellence in the WNBA. Collier's story underscores the values of perseverance, adaptability, and teamwork, making this episode a must-listen for fans and aspiring athletes alike.

Transcript

[Sue Bird]

Support for this show comes from Google Pixel. When the extraordinary is possible, never settle for less for your next phone upgrade, meet the Google Pixel 9 Pro. It's got a stunning new design, the advanced AI power of Gemini, and their best camera yet. It's built to capture everyone in your group in beautiful resolution, including the person taking the photo. Now that's extraordinary. You can learn more about the new Google Pixel 9 with Gemini Live on the Google Store. Sequences shortened Gemini Live available for ages 18, compatible with certain features and with certain accounts. Results for illustrative purposes and may vary. Check responses for accuracy.

[Megan Rapinoe]

Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea when you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need Pure Leaf iced tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshing and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a Pure Leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a pure leaf.

[Kayla Thornton]

Hey everyone, welcome to Bird's Eye View. We had our very first live show in Indiana this past week which we're going to share with you. It was, it was great. It was a great turnout, great guests, great energy. Honestly, the whole weekend had that vibe from the live shows that we did, to Friday night Skills Challenge, the three point contest and then to the actual All Star Game. And speaking of the game itself, I want to send a congratulations to Nafeesa Collier on getting All Star mvp, but I also want to talk about her efficiency. This year. Phi is putting together one of the most well rounded and elite follow up seasons that we've seen in a really long time. She's leading the Minnesota Lynx who sit at the top of the standings, and she's doing it with a level of efficiency that had pretty much everybody whispering early in the season like, wait, is she about to go 504090 now? 50, 4090 is a incredibly elite club, so I wanted to explore that a little bit more, but I needed some help in doing that.

[Sue Bird]

This special edition of Sue's View is presented by Google Pixel. I'm going to use Gemini Live on Pixel to help me do a bit of a deep dive into something called the 504090 club, which is when a player shoots 50% from the field, 40% from three, and 90% from the free throw line. Getting in the 50, 40, 90 club is hard. In the WNBA, there's only been one player to ever do it. Okay, let's ask Gemini some questions. Hey, gemini. Of the 50, 40, 90 categories in basketball, which is 50% shooting, 40% from three, and 90% from the free throw line, which is actually the most difficult to attain.

[Gemini AI]

That's a great question. While all three percentages are impressive, hitting 90% from the free throw line is generally considered the most challenging. Free throws are unguarded shots, but the pressure of consistency at that higher percentage is immense. What do you think makes it so tough?

[Sue Bird]

Honestly, I think you nailed it.

[Kayla Thornton]

It's how much you have to focus. But now I'm curious, what type of player typically does this?

[Sue Bird]

Is it guards?

[Kayla Thornton]

Is it forwards? Is it centers?

[Gemini AI]

You'll often see guards and Forwards achieve the 50, 40, 90 club. Their game relies on a mix of driving, creating their own shots, and perimeter shooting. So efficiency in all those areas is key. Centers, on the other hand, typically focus on rebounding and scoring closer to the basket. So their shooting stats might look a little different. Do you have a favorite player who fits this description?

[Sue Bird]

I do.

[Kayla Thornton]

Have you ever heard of Sue Bird?

[Gemini AI]

Sue Bird is a legend. She's a fantastic example of a guard with incredible shooting skills. Did you know she's a four time WNBA champion and holds the record for most assists in league history?

[Kayla Thornton]

I actually did. I actually did.

[Sue Bird]

But I have a question. I have another question for you. So since this club is so hard.

[Kayla Thornton]

To get to, if it was only two of these categories, which two would.

[Sue Bird]

Have the biggest club?

[Gemini AI]

If we're talking about the biggest club with just two categories, it would definitely be players who get 50% shooting and 90% from the free throw line. Those are still incredibly impressive stats and you'd find more players achieving that combo than than the full 50, 40, 90.

[Sue Bird]

Okay, that makes sense. Let's switch to defense. If there was a 50, 40, 90.

[Kayla Thornton]

Club to show defensive prowess, how would we do that?

[Gemini AI]

That's a fun idea. For a defensive 50, 40, 90 club. We could look at steals, blocks, and maybe defensive rebounds. What specific stats would you like to use?

[Sue Bird]

No, I actually think that's a great idea. What numbers would we have to go with though?

[Gemini AI]

We could set the bar pretty high to make it exclusive. Like 2 steals, 1.5 blocks, and 8 defensive rebounds game per. That would highlight players who are truly elite on the defensive end.

[Sue Bird]

Okay, are any WNBA players currently hitting those numbers?

[Gemini AI]

That's a tough combination. Based on current stats, no WNBA players are hitting those exact numbers. But a few are coming close in certain categories.

[Sue Bird]

Oh, looks like they gotta get their defense up.

[Kayla Thornton]

All right. Thanks, Gemini. I appreciate it.

[Gemini AI]

You're welcome. It's been fun talking hoops with you.

[Sue Bird]

Thank you.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay, now that that's all cleared up, let's get to the interview with Kayla and to our live show. Enjoy. Hey, guys. Thank you for coming. So excited to be here. Before we get started, a big thank you to Google Pixel. They're helping today make today happen. They're the official fan phone of the wnba, as we know, so shout out to them.

[Sue Bird]

I'm just gonna get right into it.

[Kayla Thornton]

I'm so excited to be here. This is my first solo show. I kind of. I'm like, literally like, where's Megan? Oh, there she is. There she is. It's like I'm missing a limb. Anyways, so, yeah. So welcome to Bird's Eye View. Like I said, really excited to be here. We have a great guest for you. Great conversation. I always start the pod with something called Sue's View, so I'm going to do that today, but I'm going to do it a little different. You guys all had the opportunity to put some questions in here, so let's see what you got for me. Okay. Okay. I'll start easy. What is your favorite part of being subird? You know, interesting question. This is really my answer. I love that my name is like, one word. Like, I'm not Sue. Yeah, I'm sue to some. Some call me Birdie, but normally it's just like, hey, Sea Bird. What's up, Sue Bird? Even my friends. Hey, did anyone talk to Sea Bird today? It's perfect. So I really enjoy that about my name. Okay, best starting lineup. Ooh, Best starting lineup for all stars all time. You know, I just said this recently on a Touch More, I believe, and my rookie year, I was voted as a starter. We're, like, lacing them up, getting ready. All of a sudden, I'm in this huddle, like, about to walk on the court, you know, with the starters, and it's like, Lisa Leslie, Cheryl Swoopes, Tina Thompson, Tisha Penichero. And then I was like, and me, what? I'm 21. And I'm like, this is my life. And it's a pretty good starting five. I think we could take a lot of teams. Okay, let me see. What was your go to pregame hype song? Big rap fan, big hip hop fan. I did a lot of Jay Z. A lot of Jay Z. So really, the Black Album is probably the one that stands out the most. Best travel destination, getting a little off topic here. I do like Mexico. That's right. You know, from Seattle. Quick little bop down. So that's a good one. Oh, who's Maddie Hummel? Hi, Maddie. My favorite color is blue. Thanks for coming, Maddie. Okay. Ooh, this is actually a good one. Who was the toughest defender you faced and why? Okay, it's a good one because our guest today is an incredibly difficult person to play against. So that is one of the answers. But the answer, I think, is Alayna Beard, and I'll tell you why. So smart. She had really long arms, and it gave her. No, it's like, serious. And it gave her extra, obviously extra length, but it gave her the ability to keep distance, while also you always felt her. So she was always there, even though she could keep the distance. So even if you thought you got by her, there was still that space for her. Yeah. Alayna Beard for sure. Alaina Beard for sure. Okay, we'll do one more. And I saw this one, and I've been avoiding it, and I've been thinking over here. Should I do this to myself? I am usually the one doing the bench start cuts on a touch more, and I'm usually the one trying to burn people. And I think I'm about to get up in flames right here. Bench start cut. Oh, my God. UConn championship number one. Seattle championship number one or gold medal number one. What? Those are yours. I can see they got very excited the second I God, all the first ones. That's where we're going here.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Wow. Tough.

[Kayla Thornton]

I'm gonna get murdered for this. I'm gonna go Seattle championship number one. I'm gonna start. I'm going to bench gold medal number one, and I'm gonna cut the yu. What? No. I changed my mind. I changed my mind. I changed my mind. I changed my mind. I'm gonna start Seattle. I'm gonna bench UConn, and I'm gonna cut the gold medal. And I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I didn't really play. I do have the medal, but I didn't really play. That was amazing. Thank you, guys, for all your questions. So without further ado, I'm going to give my intro to our guest because I want to get her out here. My next guest is making history this season. She is not having. Sorry. She's not just having a breakout year. She's doing it as the very first all star in franchise history for the Golden State Valkyries. I mean, first ever. She get to have that forever. They're setting the Tone out in the bay. Kayla Thornton has started 22 games this season, logging the most minutes. She's averaging 14 points, seven rebounds, and over a steal a game. And she's dropped double digits in 18 games this year, including four games where she went for more than 20. I think one game was her career high. 29. I actually got.

[Sue Bird]

Not actually.

[Kayla Thornton]

I obviously got to play against Kayla in her Dallas days. And, man, one year I actually even tried to get her to Seattle. But that's a story for another time. What I remember about playing against her, literally lining up and seeing that she was about to guard me, it was like two feelings I had. The first feeling was like, ugh, you know, like, ugh, it's gonna be a long night. And then the second was I felt complimented.

[Sue Bird]

Cause Kayla's obviously not a point guard.

[Kayla Thornton]

So if they were putting her on me, they're putting your best defender on me. I was like, wow, this is like a compliment to have this happen. I've watched Kayla grind, elevate, just straight up compete over the years, whether it was Dallas, New York, or now Golden State. She's a WNBA champion, a lockdown defender, and honestly one of the toughest matchups in the league. Let's welcome Kayla to the stage. Kayla, welcome to the show.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. Oh, what?

[Kayla Thornton]

Like, are you good? How's the weekend been? Are we exhausted? What are we?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I mean, just bringing it in. I kind of lost my voice a little bit, but just enjoying it, embracing it and having a good time.

[Kayla Thornton]

How was the orange carpet?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Oh, it was nerve wracking, but I enjoyed it. You know, my outfit that I wanted didn't come out, so I had to have a backup. But it worked out perfect. It came out cute, right? And the hills were kind of good. Once I ended off, I put my slides back on, but smart. Other than that, it was great. It was great.

[Kayla Thornton]

I always say it's like, if you're not exhausted as an all Star by the time you get to the game, you're not doing it right. You're not doing it right. You gotta get out there. You gotta experience all of it. The parties, the fun. Obviously, you got some business to do, Practice. But if you're not exhausted, you're not doing it right.

[Nafeesa Collier]

So absolutely not.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. Good job. Okay, so before we get to, like, present day and being named to your first all star team, I am curious. You grew up in Texas. El Paso. Give it up. You went to utep, but, like, what were some of your early Basketball, like, influences.

[Nafeesa Collier]

To be honest with you, I didn't really start playing basketball until like I was like maybe high school. Yeah. Track was my number one. I did read.

[Kayla Thornton]

I did read track was your thing. Yeah, it was like the 100 meter.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Hurdles, the 400, long jump, triple jump. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay.

[Nafeesa Collier]

So I didn't really start getting serious until like maybe like freshman year of high school.

[Kayla Thornton]

So who was like, yo, you're tall, come over here. Because, you know, that's how it happened.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. I mean, you know, where I'm from, like, I'm from El Paso, so, you know. Yeah, yeah. So when they see, you know, a black, tall, you know, African woman. Yes. You know, they just automatically think, oh, she's athletic, she's going to be great. You know, so that's kind of how it played off.

[Kayla Thornton]

But so when you're in high school, you're getting going. What part of the game were you, from an actual playing standpoint? What came easy to you?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Everything. Because the competition.

[Kayla Thornton]

Hey, just being honest.

[Nafeesa Collier]

I mean, the competition wasn't that good back then, you know, so I kind of stood out. So, I mean, and I wasn't really skilled. I was just very athletic. So I was just. My endurance was great because I ran cross country. So, you know, just rebounding and just taking off and just layups.

[Kayla Thornton]

So then what? Okay, so because you got a little bit of a late start, I mean, starting your freshman year is compared to a lot of other players, really late. How did that impact getting recruited and like that process?

[Nafeesa Collier]

You know, I didn't have like the full like AU stuff experience and getting exposed. So it did a little bit. But you know, I'm big with my faith and you know, just knowing that God always has a plan, you know. So it was kind of like my senior year where I started kind of getting looked at and whatnot. And I didn't want to leave home. So I was really hoping that my UTEP would come out. And she did, finally at one game. And that's all I was looking for. Like that's all that mattered. And it happened. So I stayed home. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. So it worked out well.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

You mentioned going to utep, played four years. You're still the leading scorer in school history. A lot of other records too. You were two time all defensive, like on the all defensive team. So it's 2014, you're about to graduate. What are you thinking in regards to the wnba?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I mean, it was a dream. I always wanted to be in it, but obviously like I didn't know How I was going to, you know, get there. I didn't think I was going to get drafted, but I was in class and my agent had called and said, like, you know, I got a training camp offer to Washington. And I was like, yo, teacher, hold on. I got to step out real quick.

[Kayla Thornton]

I don't need you anymore.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, yeah, right, right.

[Kayla Thornton]

I'm on my way.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. And I, you know, got a call. Like, I was excited. I called my. And stuff like that and I was like, hey, I gotta go, but I'll be doing my classes online. So, you know, so. Yeah, that was like the first. And I was like, ecstatic about that.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay, so you weren't necessarily, like, expecting and. Or disappointed to not be drafted. You were more just excited to have any opportunity.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Right, Any opportunity.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay, so then you get to D.C. which was the first team that you tried out for. You're in training camp. What's like your first. I mean, everyone's first training camp is just like, whoa. It's so much. There's so much lingo and language and teaching and competitiveness and it's a whole new world. So, like, what are you feeling in that first training camp?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, it was nerve wracking. It was like. Like, I really couldn't even sleep. Like, I would go home because you never know, like, you know, when you're trying to make a team, like, you don't know if you can get cut or not the first day. So it was just mostly just like, just trying to do my best, but just be who I am as well, you know? But it was very tough. And I think back then when I was in the training camp, I was with, like, Ivory Latta and Carol Lawson and a few others, and they were kind of some tough bets. And I think back then that's when you guys had the, like, the whole hazing thing.

[Kayla Thornton]

And what were they doing? Yeah, I would like to go on record, I never hazed because as a rookie, I didn't want to be hazed. So when I got older, I was like, yeah, I got it. I don't. Who wants to do that?

[Nafeesa Collier]

What were they doing? That was kind of big. I mean, you know, for me, like, I come from, like, you know, we all have hands and we all can walk, you know, so, like, you know, you can get your own shoes. So, like, it was picking up Carol Lawson's shoes shout out to Carol Lawson and putting her, you know, her shoes back. And I was just like, what? They're like, yeah, you just have to do it. You're the rookie, just shut up. Just do it right. Going to go buy coffee and stuff like that. And I'm like, yo, like, am I here to play basketball or am I somebody's like, assistant? You know? So that was kind of tough. That was kind of tough for me.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, no, that is tough for sure. Was Mike Tebow there?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yes. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay, well, I'm assuming that response is because you did get to the final day of cuts, but you were eventually waived. Yes. I'm actually, I would love for you to tell everybody just, yes, I want to hear the experience of being brought into the, you know, probably the coach's office to be told that news. But then just the first couple days after that.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I mean, when I got called in, you know, my stomach was just, like, just. Just dropped. Like, I couldn't eat. My mouth was like, you know, and I was just like, okay, this can either go good thing or a bad thing. And so when I got in, he's like, you know, you had a great training camp. But. So as soon as I heard. But, like, my. My body just went numb, and I'm just like, yeah, okay, that's it. And he kind of just said, like, you know, I was undersized four, and I needed to kind of like, work on my guard skills at that time and stuff like that. So at that time, I wasn't trying to hear that. I was just like, okay, well, thank you. Well, I didn't say that. I just looked at him like, you know, and then I just remember myself just walking back into the. Like, to the gym, and I sat down. I was just, like, just tearing. I'm a very competitive person, you know, and I don't like the word no or being rejected or anything like that. And I called my mom, and she talked me through, and it was kind of rough after that. It took me. It took me about a week to kind of recover from that, but I had to, like, make a decision like, okay, is that it? Or am I going to keep going? Like, you know, and I decided to go, you know, the route of I'm not going to let this stop me.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay. Okay. So a lot of times what happens is, like, a player goes on waivers, and then teams have 10 days to, like, pick them up, and it's. And the contract that they were under goes with them. After those 10 days, it's like, you get to start over and negotiate what you want. So for those 10 days, are you, like, waiting? Is your agent telling you, like, hey, stay in shape? So you're still working Out.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. But nothing happened, right?

[Kayla Thornton]

No, I know. Nothing. Yeah, I know. I read the. I read the. I read the bio. But I'm curious. Just, like, I mean, honestly, if we fast forward another year, you go back to D.C. right?

[Nafeesa Collier]

You would think, right? But, yeah, I mean, like, I'm gonna.

[Kayla Thornton]

Show you my guard skills. You wanna see guard skills? Yeah.

[Nafeesa Collier]

I have a. I went to go play overseas in Israel, and I worked on myself, and I did it. And then when they called, I was like, you know what? That's my second opportunity. Right. You can continue now.

[Kayla Thornton]

So you go back to training camp, and you. And the good news is you make the team. So you don't get picked up on waivers that one year, but you go back, and we're going to get into Israel and overseas in a second. You go back, you make the team, but then you get waived after 10 games.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Oh, child. Yes.

[Kayla Thornton]

So, yeah. So now, like, now what is. What is. What is like, your internal. What's like your inner monologue?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Like, now it's just like, okay, I made it in. All right, good. You know, not getting comfortable, but I'm thinking, like, all right, this is my opportunity. And then, like, 10 games in, I'm doing good. You know, just being who I am and stuff like that. And I remember this day, I was with our Minty Harrington. I don't know if you know her. She's, like, one of my mentors. And we were going. Yes.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah.

[Nafeesa Collier]

And we were going shopping, and we were driving, and we haven't even made it to the mall yet. And I get a call from Mike Tebow.

[Kayla Thornton]

Oh, my God, Mike Thibault catching strays today.

[Nafeesa Collier]

And, like, my stomach just dropped because, like, what. Coach is calling you on your off day, right?

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah.

[Nafeesa Collier]

He's like, hey, can you come to the office? So I was like, I'm going to. You take me to the gym. She's like, yeah. She's like, girl, this is gonna be the last time I see you.

[Kayla Thornton]

And that is what it's like.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. Because I just knew, like, I just knew he could have just told me over the phone he wanted to come back in. So I was just like, oh, man, here we go. So she brought me in and stuff like that. And I went up to his office again, sat in the same chair that I got cut in before, you know, looked at him. Well, you know, we have the rights to somebody else. And, you know, you were the decision that we needed to make, you know, but it's nothing that you did. And I said, same look. Yeah, and then I think after that, that kind of, like, hit me, because I'm just like, dang, so what now? You know? But again, I prayed God opened another door, and then that led to me going overseas and then Dallas.

[Kayla Thornton]

Oh, no, we're gonna get to Dallas for sure. So very quickly. It's so true, because a lot of times, some of my memories is like, you'll be in the training room or in the locker room, and someone who works for the team comes in. They're like, hey, so? And so can you come to the coach's office? And all of us are like, oh, no, you know what's happening? But you're not gonna say anything in that moment. And then they come back, and then you're like, what happened? Even though you know, and you have to, like, share in that moment. I mean, it's like, obviously it connects you to different people in that way, but it's also just like, a really hard moment. So to get the call with your teammate, our Minty must have been like, damn.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. She knew.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah.

[Nafeesa Collier]

She was trying to play it out. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. So, yeah. So, actually, let's talk about overseas a little bit, because as we. As we have established, it's been a long weekend, guys. Apparently, even when you're not an All Star, you need. You're exhausted. You know, you try one time, you get cut, you try another time, but then you actually, like, skipped a year. So first of all, what happened in 2016 that you weren't. Were you even in a camp?

[Nafeesa Collier]

No, I think I just. I was just playing overseas. I think I had got a final, like, a big offer. I think at that time, South Korea was kind of big, and my agent got this deal, and I did that, and I was just like, you know what? I'm just going to take time and just really work. And I went overseas, went to South Korea, and that's kind of like a hard league to play in, and I excelled in that. And that's kind of when I came back, and I think the Final Four was in Dallas when I got picked up, and they had called me in for, like, a workout, right? And I was like, all right, cool. You know, and I did a workout with, at the time, coach Freddie Williams and coach Taj McWilliams, and I did my workout. I didn't know what to expect, so I just came in there and, like, at that time, like, you know, I'm still bouncy, but I was bouncy, so I was, like, hitting the backboard and stuff like that. And like, they knew right then, like, they had signed me on a contract right there. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

So what did, like, your overseas experiences in these in between times. Right. Israel, you've played. Honestly, I was reading your thing. You've played pretty much everywhere. At one point, three countries and I mean, four teams and three countries in the same year. Yeah. You were all over the place. So whether it's a specific country or just the overseas experience in general, what did you. What did that do for your game?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I mean, I think it just built my confidence. You know, I went over there, I worked on the things that they told me that I needed to work on, and just playing in a different atmosphere, just playing with different people, culture and stuff like that really helped and just made me just have this fire, you know, And I came back and I used that, and, you know, I'm here. Yeah, Here we are.

[Kayla Thornton]

Well, don't get to. Here we are too fast. We still have a lot more to cover. No, I always think overseas, it really is. You're forced to grow in so many ways. Yeah. As a person, as a player. But I think one of the hardest things that a basketball player can do is go from a four to a three. I really do. I'm off the top. There's like two or three, and now you're on that list that have, like, really successfully done it. Swing Cash is the first one that comes to mind. Very similar situation. Was a four in college and had to become a three. She was good at the four, don't get me wrong. And she could play it still, but, like, really wanted and had to become a three. And I saw her go through that process. What was that process like for you? Cause it's. It's. It's hard.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I mean, it's tough, like, you know, transitioning from, like, sending on ball screen and you expecting the ball instead of having to give the ball. So it took a lot. It took a lot of me, like, my dribbles, you know, I mean, my handles and stuff like that. Working on that and just being comfortable coming off screens. And I'm still working on it now. Like, you know, our gr. Our game is not finished. It's still a lot more growing, but it. It was. It was difficult because I had to kind of change my mindset of, like, okay, now I have to do for others now. Now I'm not the only one receiving. So that took some time. And then also, I mean, the defensive part, like, that was okay because I could guard one through five, but just understanding and being comfortable with pressure and stuff. So.

[Kayla Thornton]

So which is harder being a guard or a post?

[Nafeesa Collier]

I would say. I would say being a guard.

[Kayla Thornton]

Definitely a guard.

[Nafeesa Collier]

A guard. A guard. A guard definitely.

[Kayla Thornton]

Because you have to. You just said it. I'm actually half kidding, but you just said it. It's. You're playing your game, but you're also like have to be very aware of others. Not that post players aren't. Of course they are. I'm not trying to. Not that big of a delta, but yeah, there's a different mindset that comes with it.

[Sue Bird]

Support for this show comes from Google Pixel. It's 2025. You don't need to settle for just any old smartphone. You can have a smarter phone like the Google Pixel 9 Pro. Pixel 9 Pro comes with Gemini, your built in AI assistant that helps you supercharge your ideas. And now with Gemini Live, you can have an actual conversation with Gemini. So the next time you want to brainstorm party ideas, uncover interesting fun facts, or even get quizzed on basketball trivia, you can ask Gemini and it features Pixel's best camera yet. Built to capture everyone in beautiful resolution. It has a pro triple rear camera, super res zoom now available for video and their Add Me feature. What gets your entire group in the pics, including the person taking the photo, all that adds up so you'll never have to miss a shot and never have to settle for less than extraordinary meet Pixel 9 Pro with a stunning new design, the advanced AI power of Gemini and their best camera yet. Now we're talking. You can learn more about the new Google Pixel 9 with Gemini Live on the Google Store. Sequences shortened Gemini Live available for ages 18. Compatible with certain features and with certain accounts. Results for illustrative purposes and may vary. Check responses for accuracy. Support for Bird's Eye view comes from Etsy as these ladies dominate the game on the court. Stars Cameron Brink, Skylar Diggins, Neko Guamuke and Brianna Stewart are dominating off the court as well and teaming up with Etsy to show how their style travels. With an exclusive collection from Etsy, these athletes showcase their coveted personal style with the help of Etsy sellers. By blending self expression with craftsmanship, this collaboration is more than a drop. It's a celebration of the shared spirit of grit, originality and heart that drives both athletes and makers to create something truly special. The four piece icon collection includes a two piece clothing set by Skylar Diggins and Etsy seller Mary Lo of by Mary Lo Metal statement earrings by Neko Gumuke and Etsy seller Deja Sparks of Deja Sparks Jewelry a New York City inspired charm necklace by Briana Stewart and Etsy seller Hadley Staub of From Hadley and Press On Nails by Cameron Brink and Etsy seller Hayley Tripp of Bling It On Nails. Plus, each athlete has also curated a selection of more style finds on Etsy, offering a deeper look into their off court aesthetics and creative inspirations. Shop the full collection and curated edits [e-mail] theicon collection.

[Kayla Thornton]

Hey everyone, Sue Bird here and I'm Megan Rapinoe. Just here to let you know that.

[Sue Bird]

If you're a fan of Bird's eye.

[Kayla Thornton]

View, you might also want to check.

[Sue Bird]

Out the show we co host A Touch More. Each week on A Touch More, we.

[Kayla Thornton]

Give you a front row seat to.

[Sue Bird]

The world of women's sports.

[Kayla Thornton]

We break down the headlines, the latest news with help from our amazing guests and deep cut stories from our own lives as athletes. To give you a taste, a recent episode I absolutely loved. We just had Cheney Guma on. We talked all things w allstar. We talked all the things she's doing off the court, which she's been doing for such a long time. We're production company, she's a commentator. We talked about how she's a big old nerd and she still is, basically. Yeah.

[Sue Bird]

We also always talk about how dynamic, you know, female athletes are. And I think all you Bird's eye.

[Kayla Thornton]

View listeners tap into that one. It'll, it'll definitely give you a fix.

[Sue Bird]

And this month, episodes of A Touch More are brought to you by Icy Hot, the official pain relief sponsor. So thank you Icy Hot.

[Kayla Thornton]

And listen, wherever you get your podcasts, honestly, Cheney might need some Icy Hot. Talking about those knees, talking about that back. Knees be kneein' then backs be backin'. All right, so we've now arrived at the Dallas years. We're officially here. So you sign a contract, but it's still, you still have to make the team. Yeah. So what kind of a two parter, like what do you think you learned from your DC experiences, especially the year you made the team? You know, whether it's from coaches or players or just the experience itself that helped you. And then how were you able? Like what made this stick?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I think also too understanding that, you know, when I was first there, I was kind of a timid player, you know, so like I would work on things but that not fully like translated over to the game, you know, I was kind of like timid and, you know, nervous of like, okay, if I miss this shot, then like he's gonna take me out. If I miss this defense objective, I'm gonna, you know. So that kind of, like, was in the back of my mind. I wasn't really free, you know, So I would say going to Dallas, I was a little more freer. I was like, you know what? Hey, like, if you don't fail, then how can you learn from it? So I kind of had that type of mindset and just working hard, just being the first one in the gym, the last one to leave, and having that, like, work ethic mindset. And it's worked for me.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, absolutely. So you spent six seasons, you signed, like, at two different points, contract extensions. Like, this is your place, Alicia Clark. And I'm bringing her up for two reasons. But Alicia Clark always used to tell this story about. And I've mentioned on the podcast when I had Kate Martin on actually about never feeling like she could unpack her bags, like, into year, like, even into her second, third year. Like, I can't unpack, like, just in case I get that call, like, hey, come to the office. Did you? Like, does that resonate? Okay, you're nodding. That resonates, yeah. So what is that just, like, emotionally, like.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I mean, it's tough, you know, of course I unpacked my bags. But no, just to have that thought, like, you know, especially me going through it twice, you know, I just. That's kind of what made me who I am today. Like, I'm not comfortable because you just never know. And like, when you have that mindset, then, like, you can't go wrong. But once you get complacent and, oh, I made it, then it's like, okay, well, what else? You know? So I'm always have this, like, even now. Even now, you just. You just never know. But that's what keeps me going, you know? So I just had that because I'm just like, look, I could be playing, and the next thing I, you know, I'm gone. So that kind of, like, has driven me.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. What I love about your story is you've kind of had, like, a few different evolutions, you know, like, as a player, I would. I would actually consider you. I did a little bit of, like, a deep dive research on this, and I was trying to think back, and this is why I also brought up Alicia Clark. I was trying to think back, like, what three and D players have been in our league, like, successfully. 3 and D means you can shoot threes and play defense. It's like a very. It's a term that's Used in all basketball. And it's a really. It seems. It sounds so simple, but it's like, arguably one of the more important positions to fill to have a player that can space the floor on offense and guard other team's best players. And there really haven't been that many. Like, I had the. I think AC. I came up with AC Leonie Fibish, now I think is a 3 and D player. And then honestly, I was asking even like, Rebecca Lobo, Ryan Ruko, Holly Rowe, I was like, guys, can you think of any? And Rebecca was like, oh, Brooke Wykoff. Which is literally from Shout Out Brooke. But it's literally like 20 years. Yeah. You don't even know who she is, huh?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Sorry.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, Tough for me.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Kayla Thornton]

It's okay. She played at Florida State. Coaches at Florida State now, I believe. Or did still. Thank you. Shout Out Mima. See you played in for the Connecticut Suns, Chicago sky, and there just really hasn't been that many. And I would call you a 3 and D player. But then back to this evolution part. You're more than that now. But did you ever really. Did you kind of understand that the 3 and D was gonna be how you were able to have staying power in this league? Was that something you ever talked about or somebody talked to you about?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Not really. I think it's the first time you're hearing three and.

[Kayla Thornton]

Really?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I never. I never heard that. That's a curse. Yeah. I think.

[Kayla Thornton]

I'm like, they use it everywhere. Everybody knows it. Let me educate you guys.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Right? I was supposed to go along with you. Sorry, sorry.

[Kayla Thornton]

Well, you're a 3 and D player, and I think you. No, you are. And I feel like I, you know, obviously I never played with you, but played against you for all those years. It was like outside looking in, it was like, oh, like the year or the games and the years where you had better three point shooting years, it was like they had. They couldn't take you off the floor. You know, it's like. Has such an impact. So. Okay. Obviously it wasn't something you were thinking about, but looking back, looking back, do you feel ownership? Like, does that land for you?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, definitely. I think just the teams that I played on, of course, you know, I'm a defensive mindset, but I also had to execute on offense as well, you know, so being able to capitalize on that and make that my strong point, that kind of helped because it did keep me on the floor that where I can be a stretch and score at the same time. But also play defense.

[Kayla Thornton]

Right. You know, it's funny, in my notes, it was like, ask her the first time she heard the term three and D. Today's year. Today, years old. But you bring up defense, and you are currently top 10 in the league in defensive rating. Shout out.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Thank you.

[Kayla Thornton]

I think you mentioned. You already kind of talked about you were so athletic. You find basketball. But I am curious, basically, did you find defense or defense? Find you?

[Nafeesa Collier]

I think defense. I found defense.

[Kayla Thornton]

You found defense? Yeah. So that's really the question is, is this, like, something you're actually passionate about?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Absolutely.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

Where does that come from?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Just. Just. I think high school, just having, like, a dog mentality, you know, I think it comes from, like, my dad. My dad was a defender and when he played and stuff like that. And just that, like, I don't know, I just take pride in it. I don't know where it comes from, but it's just. I think that's one of my strong suits, and I've learned to understand that, especially in college, and I've always just took pride on that.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. Is it. You know, I know some players, they watch a lot of film of the competition they're about to face. Is that something you do, like a studying aspect? What's that like for you?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Well, I mean, you know, you can't tell it all. Right, Right. But that's one aspect of understanding who I'm guarding at the time and understanding what they like, their weaknesses and stuff like that and how to take them out. Because defense is understanding, you know, who you're playing. That's half of the job. Right. And then the other half is just going out there and just doing it. But once you can understand that player and their mindset and how they think ways you can take them out the game and stuff like that, you know, your job's already done. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

I mean, yeah. You guarded me. I'm aware. I know. I know the feeling.

[Nafeesa Collier]

It's a little tough.

[Kayla Thornton]

I know I said it earlier in the intro, but it really, really is true every time that we were ever matched up. I mean, for me, personally, because you're so. You have so much length and you're so much taller. It was just like a nightmare for me. I felt like. Like, engulfed.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

I felt, like, eaten up by, like, your presence. So, yeah, that was fun. So when you think back to those Dallas years, like I said, six seasons, like, what are some of the warm and fuzzies about that experience?

[Nafeesa Collier]

I mean, you know, first of all, it's just a Blessing that they allowed me to, you know, to get back in the league. And, you know, unfortunately, you know, I kind of went through maybe what, Fred, Brian, Vicky. Yeah, three coaches within my span there. So it was kind of like learning a new system, learning new teammates and stuff like that. So it was just kind of like just a roller coaster going up and down. And then I think the bubble. That was not the best experience. But it taught me a lot, though. It taught me a lot. It made me. Because it's almost like switching teams when you get a new coach learning a whole new system and stuff like that. And so it was a lot.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. So Fred to Brian to Vicki. To Vicki. Do you want to bench, start, cut them? Just kidding.

[Nafeesa Collier]

No, we can.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay.

[Nafeesa Collier]

We can. Two. Look, two will be hard, but we're cutting Brian out.

[Kayla Thornton]

Brian's out. You know, I play for Brian.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Sorry.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I'm actually.

[Kayla Thornton]

Well, finish.

[Nafeesa Collier]

We're cutting him. We're starting Fred Williams and we're benching, you know, Vicki. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

So you didn't like playing for Brian? Why? I mean, I'm not trying to get spicy. I'm actually not trying to get spicy, but this is what I would say. I played for Brian, I think, for six seasons. He was in Seattle. We won a championship. So I do have a lot of fond memories. But he's hard. Yeah. And he's gonna. You know what he's gonna do? He's gonna see something in you, especially as a defender, and he's gonna poke and he's gonna be so hard on you. Did you get. Was that the kind of attention Brian was giving you?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Is this life?

[Kayla Thornton]

No. You know what? Do you want to move on? Yeah, we'll move on. Okay, so in 2023, you know, you're getting ready. When do you get the call that there's been a three team trade and you are now a player for the New York Liberty?

[Nafeesa Collier]

That's crazy. I was in Australia playing for coach Cheryl. That was Sandy Brandella's assistant. And we had practice and we were about to end practice, and I go to my phone and like, you know, the time difference in Australia is different. So I'm just like. I look at my phone normally I don't have people texting me on my phone, and I'm just like, dang, like, what? Like, what is going on? And they're like, kayla, are you excited? And I'm just like, no, mate, I'm not. Like, what is there to be excited about? Like, you didn't hear, like, you're gonna be playing with Sandy. And I'm just like, huh?

[Kayla Thornton]

The. Playing with Sandy?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, playing with Sandy. I'm not.

[Kayla Thornton]

Not Stewie, Not Sabrina. Like, was it. Yeah, none of that.

[Nafeesa Collier]

None of that.

[Kayla Thornton]

Sandy.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Playing with Sandy. And I was very confused, and I'm just like, no. So I look at my phone. My agent's like, call me as soon as you see this message and stuff like that. So I'm just like, okay. So I call, and they're like, hey, you've been traded to New York. And I said, oh. I said, okay. It didn't, like, dwell in, like, it didn't, like, seek in yet until, like, I got out of practice, I was walking to my car, and I was just like, dang. Because, you know, I've been in Dallas for six years, and I've built Texas. Right.

[Kayla Thornton]

No, I get it. Yeah.

[Nafeesa Collier]

So I was like, oh, man. So, of course, you know, I called my mom and stuff. We talked, and I was kind of sad and stuff, and I was just like, dang, this is gonna be another, you know, another movement, another getting out my comfort zone. I'm going to New York. I didn't like New York.

[Kayla Thornton]

Like, I could tell.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. I didn't like New York. Like, it was too busy. Like, I'm, you know, I'm a country girl, so I like, you know, to be able to get in my car, drive to Walmart, you know, and park and stuff like that.

[Kayla Thornton]

And, you know, and they're like, here's this Metro card.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, exactly. Right, right. You know, you got to carry a little scooter to go to the grocery store and all that. Yeah. So I was just like, well, this is going to be a major move for me. Like, going from Texas to New York, like, it's crazy. But, I mean, I played overseas. I've learned to understand and embrace change and culture and stuff like that, so I knew I could. I could handle it.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. So how long, like, how long were you in mourning versus when you kind of maybe zoomed out a little bit and you're like, okay, like what you just said. But also, wow, look at the roster that I'm joining. I'm now in playoff contention, where, if we're being honest about the Dallas years, you guys, it just felt like you couldn't get over the hump. Like, you'd make the playoffs, you'd lose in the first round, but then, like, next year, you'd have all these expectations, someone would get hurt, so. And so was this. So it's like, it could never, like, Build the momentum there. But now you're on this roster where it's like probably championship or bust from the start for sure.

[Nafeesa Collier]

So I mean, it took me a while. I wasn't thinking of that at the time because I was just thinking of like, they move in, friends think about Walmart.

[Kayla Thornton]

You think about Walmart, right?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Walmart. Yes, yes. So it took me a while and then, you know, I couldn't mourn too much because I had, you know, I was playing over there, so I had to kind of like switch gears and stuff like that. But once I kind of realized and I saw who they, you know, who they got, J.J. and all that, I'm just like, okay, we could do something. And then, you know, JK called me. He kind of told me his plan and his vision for me, so I'm just like, okay, we can probably. This is probably going to be my time to finally, you know, win a championship and I think I'm ready. So that kind of like changed it and I'm just like, come. Just like in Dallas. Yes. It was hopeful, but not too.

[Kayla Thornton]

Right.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

It's funny, my memory of the trade and you could probably. Who was involved? Do you remember exactly?

[Nafeesa Collier]

It was Natasha Howard, right?

[Kayla Thornton]

Natasha Howard to Dallas.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Dallas.

[Kayla Thornton]

You go to New York.

[Nafeesa Collier]

But there is like there was another one.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Not too sure.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay. My. I just. Because there's like the three team of. It all gets JJ to New York as well.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Somebody went to New Connecticut. I don't.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, doesn't matter. Because I remember thinking like, you know, we're all hearing rumors that JJ wants to get to New York. And like, how's this going? What's going to happen? How's it going to happen? And then like Natasha Howard. Okay, that makes sense. And then when I saw your name, I was like, this is. Someone needs to be fired for this. Because it was like Natasha going to Dallas, J.J. going to New York and then whoever to connect you like that. That felt fair. That felt like it made. Made some sense for you to also go to New York. I was like, this is some bullshit. Like you guys are too. It's like the rich get richer kind of a feeling in that trade. So I guess shout out to Jonathan, I don't know, the GM of New York. Were you there too? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great job. Congratulations. I just remember like seeing it and I wasn't playing or anything, so it wasn't. I had no. There was no that feeling. But I was like, man, that's like a steal. They stole you. Yeah, that was a Theft. So you're in New York for two seasons. You guys make two finals appearances, I'm assuming. I feel like I know the answer to this question, but how did the loss in the 2023 finals, like, motivate all of you to then head into 2024?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, that was. That was a tough one. You know, I can still remember to this day, you know, I think we kind of the thought that, you know, they had some players out, and we didn't think that it was going to be easy. Like, you know, we didn't have that mindset. But, you know, you just get relaxed when you, oh, well, Chelsea Gray's not going to play, or they're not going to have this. And, you know, it killed us. And to lose how we did, like, it really hurt. And I think it took some of us maybe, like, two months to get over that. Yeah, probably until we got back to training.

[Kayla Thornton]

I'm pretty sure Stewie still thinks about, like, the last play.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Oh, for sure.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, for sure. I'm pretty sure she still thinks about it. But you, obviously, the next year, go on to win. So we have a WNBA champion in the house. When you look back on those two years, I mean, they just happened. When you look back on those two years, like, what impact did it have on you? And what do you think you took with you from New York to Golden State?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, just playing with the stars that I had, you know, and it was a great team. Like, I think one that was probably, like, the best moments I've had. The environment, the girls, you know, the city, the best time I had in my life, you know. Yeah, there was ups and downs, you know what I'm saying? But it was a team that understood the goal that we wanted. You have so many powerful players and how you're going to put them together, and I think we. We did a good job. Our main thing was being selfless, you know, and understanding the main goal and understanding your role in a part of winning the championship. And I think once we grasped that, like, we kind of just skyrocketed, you know? And I think the thing I took from that is understanding, understanding your role and being selfless and understanding that it's not about you, it's about the bigger people picture.

[Kayla Thornton]

All right, I'm going to circle back real fast. I want to go back to the 2024 Finals for a second, because I missed one of my notes, which is in the final series. Obviously, one of the best final series of all time. Went to five games, you know, in the first four games, you only averaged nine minutes.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

And then in game five, you played 20.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

How did you stay ready for that?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, you know, I think, I think last year was always. I had this mindset of like, just, just stay ready. You never know when your opportunity is going to come. You know, the season was up. There was times where I started, there was times where I didn't. And it was just up and down and I kind of didn't let that, you know, get to me. It was. Some people struggle with that mentally and stuff like that. But for me, I had like a very like supportive crew that, you know, kept me level head and stuff like that. And you know, the playoffs didn't see too much minutes and stuff like that. And that's okay, you know. Cause it wasn't about me, it's about the team. Right. So game five, I'm like, you know, like if I play eight minutes, nine minutes, oh, well. But you know, I just want to win. But then, you know, when I got my chance and went out there, I was like, hey, this is it. Like, this is it. So kind of like show. Okay, well, you should have been, you know, playing me more. And that was kind of just my mindset.

[Kayla Thornton]

Man, you're pretty mentally tough. Not everybody would be able to do that.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

Which no surprise. The next thing I want to say is in 2024, you did. You provided a lot of grit to that team. You hit a career high 45 threes. But we all know how the expansion draft works. Yeah, tough. Did you have any idea going in if you were going to be protected or not?

[Nafeesa Collier]

I wasn't even thinking about that. I just thought, you know, you're just.

[Kayla Thornton]

Like unfazed by it all.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, no, I mean, I was thinking like, you know, we just won. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I had a big impact. You know, I'm not going nowhere. Yeah, I'm safe, I'm safe, I'm safe. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

My bags are on packed. Yeah, I got a little cart.

[Nafeesa Collier]

The house is still there. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

So you're just not thinking so. All right. I imagine then, well, who calls you first of all like your agent or does the team call you direct?

[Nafeesa Collier]

I had a conversation with ohima because. Yeah, we had a connection. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay, so. Oh, yeah, that's right. From New York City. So in that moment, what are you feeling like? Hi, I'm Ohima and you are now a Golden State Valkyrie.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. You know, she called me when I was in Turkey, when I was in Mersin, and She had a conversation with me and when I seen her call me, because I was just, you know, I haven't heard from a human in years.

[Kayla Thornton]

You know, she must be calling to say congrats, right?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Right at this time of hour, right? When she called, I was just like, oh, okay, this might be it. And we had a talk. And after that talk, I felt great. And I was just like, you know what? This is time for me to get from under the shadows and blossom and have the opportunity. And she gave that to me and Grateful. Grateful.

[Kayla Thornton]

That's amazing. So, yeah, so you go out to Golden State, you guys report for camp. For lack of a better. What's your first impressions? Just like, it's a brand new franchise, but you got a really nice practice facility.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Beautiful.

[Kayla Thornton]

Purple and black everywhere. I've seen it. It's gorgeous. But they're saying this word, Valhalla. Are you like, what the fuck?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I was like, we were doing our media stuff, right? And they like, when I first got there, because I had some stuff to do and they were just like, so this is going to be Valhalla. But like, at first, like, I'm just like, what? And I'm thinking, like, Valhalla is like a video. Like, I play video games. So I'm just like, that's a video game. Like, they're like, no, it's Bajala. You know, And I was pronouncing it wrong. They're like, no, Bajala. And I was just like, okay, all right, you guys got it. But I didn't know what it was. I was like, that threw me off guard.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, I actually love it. It took me a second too. I was saying, like, Balahala for a while. It took me a second too. But I really, like, I feel like it's one of those things that in five years it's going to be part of, like, the normal vernacular, like around the team and stuff. But what were some of your impressions? Just of like, like you're meeting, you know, Natalie for the first time. You're meeting all your teammates. Like I said, brand new city, brand new fan base. Like, what's the feeling?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. No, when I first went to San Francisco, like, just the vibes, the people just welcomed me in. So great. I was there for the celebrity game, so that was nice to be there. And like, when they announced me and said, like, you know, this is our player for Golden State Valkyries, like, they went crazy. Like, I think they've been waiting years, years for a women's team to be there. So to finally see that come was great, but just warm. And you know, the coaches, coach, Nat, all their coaching staffs was just. The vibes was just great. You know, when you just go into a place and you just feel warm, you feel at home. That's kind of like what it felt. And great people. Great people.

[Kayla Thornton]

I'm always so curious about like how coaches go about their messaging because I think that's such an. Speaking of Brian Agler, there was actually one year. Where is this live? But there was actually one year where he kept talking to us about winning a championship. But like I was looking around and I was like, I don't think we got it. This is not the year. And it was a year where I don't even know if we made the playoffs or we like scratched and clawed and barely made it. And because that didn't connect, we couldn't like you couldn't react to it on the court, you couldn't play to that. So I'm just always curious. It's an expansion team, it's a brand new franchise. You have a locker room, which I think is to all of your benefit. You have a locker room of players that have probably have a similar story to yours where they've made teams, they've been cut, they've been around, they have to be mentally tough and they have to have that grit. So what is that messaging as you guys are approaching the season?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I mean, I think you've heard it before. One of our players, Tammy, she's always said we're a bunch of six women, you know, and I think that's what it really is. Like people that been cut, they've been, they've been down, you know, and to have this opportunity now to finally come together, like we don't care nothing else but to go out there and play hard for each other and have that joy. And I think that's kind of what people see out there and that's what we feel and it's a great feeling.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. I also jokingly call you guys Euroleague lite.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

No, partially because. No, partially because you have a lot of European players, but also the more so. And I explained this on the pod once is when you play in Euroleague or really overseas, I'm sure I can only imagine South Korea, where is it just like getting beat up every game? Yeah, it's so they play very aggressive. But a lot of Euroleague teams, the ones it's not like, you know, everyone hears of the Russian teams that we all played on and they were crazy talented and star studded but we would go to like, you know, Kosice, Slovakia and they might, they might have one, maybe two WNBA players, but not all star level. And it would be the hardest game because they just, they fight and they claw and they don't give up. So I always call you guys Euroleague light for that reason. Like even the last couple games heading into the All Star game, you guys, you know, you go down, you come back, it's a close game and then you know, you're down like 10 with two minutes and somehow you find a way to make it like a one possession game. You guys never. So it really is a testament, I think to all of your journeys. But then I would assume has a lot to do with Coach Nat, as you like to say. So what's it like playing for her?

[Nafeesa Collier]

It's amazing. She's a coach that I think for the first time has gave us all this space of just having confidence, the ultimate confidence and just going out there and just being ourselves to the max and just staying true to who we are. And I think she's made that known and I think all our coaches give us that and I think that plays a big part of when you go out there. You don't have to worry about, oh, she's going to do this. It's none of that. And I think that's kind of why we are where we are.

[Sue Bird]

Support for this show comes from Google Pixel. When it comes to upgrading your smartphone, you could settle for the same old same old or you could reach for the extraordinary and try a Google Pixel 9 Pro. Pixel 9 Pro comes with Gemini, your built in AI assistant that helps you supercharge your ideas. And now with Gemini Live, you can have an actual conversation with Gemini. So the next time you want travel itinerary suggestions need help phrasing a message or you just want to know when the next game is on? You can ask Gemini. It also features Pixel's best camera yet. You know those moments where you want to take a group photo but you can't decide who'll be the photographer? Well, with their add me feature, you no longer need to worry about that. It's a camera built to capture everyone in beautiful resolution, including the person who taking the photo. Meet Pixel 9 Pro with a stunning new design, the advanced AI power of Gemini and their best camera yet. Now we're talking. You can learn more about the new Google Pixel 9 with Gemini Live on the Google Store. Sequences shortened Gemini Live available for ages 18 +. Compatible with certain features and with certain accounts. Results for illustrative purposes and may vary. Check responses for accuracy.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Fox Creative.

[Kathy Engelbert]

This is advertiser content from I'm's Pet Food. Hey, humans. My name's Hiro. I'm a cat. I'm here to give you a crash course on how we went from fierce hunters to the floofy friends you can't live without. Although, let's be honest, we could probably live without you. Around 10,000 years ago, humans started farming, which accidentally created a rodent hunting bonanza that meant full time employment and activity for us. Humans were like, okay, these guys are chill. They can stay. So unlike dogs.

[Kayla Thornton]

Ew.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Sorry.

[Kathy Engelbert]

We basically domesticated ourselves. We chose you. Fast forward to today. Some of us may not get as much hunting in and okay, I admit, maybe we can get a little chonky, but you can help keep us healthy and active with IAM's Healthy Weight Cat food now available in stores and online.

[Hiro]

Let's be honest. Are you happy with your job? Like, really happy? The unfortunate fact is that a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Far too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never wanted in the first place. But still, we stick it out and we give reasons, like, what if the next move is even worse? I've already put years into this place, and maybe the most common one. Isn't everyone kind of miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry Me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you actually want to be. Your coach helps you get clear on your goals, create a plan, build your confidence, and keeps you accountable along the way. So don't leave your career to chance. Take action and own your future with a professional coach in your corner. Go to Strawberry Me Unstuck to claim a special offer. That's Strawberry Me Unstuck.

[Kayla Thornton]

You guys are leading the league in field goal defense, and you're fourth in defensive rating as a team. So what? Like, what is the focus? How are you guys getting that done?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Defensively, we're just being killers.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

That's it.

[Nafeesa Collier]

That's it. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

You don't want to give us any more, huh? Can't give away your secrets.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Fair. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

So you're this year averaging career highs in points and rebounds with 14 and 7. And you've given a lot of love to Sydney Parsons, player development coach. Yeah. So what has she been Doing to help you the most?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. I mean, she hasn't fixed too much, but she's fixed the main things that I needed. Just the eye that she has for my shot, the mechanics and stuff, the breathing and stuff like that that nobody's really took the time and really helped me with. And I think that's played a big part of breathing in basketball and just relaxing, you know, and it's kind of helped me with my attitude and frustration on the court and understanding, like, you know, I can't get like that because that kind of feeds off to my teammates and stuff like that. So she's played a big part of, you know, why I'm an All Star.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, absolutely. You know. You know what's been really cool as I've had more of these conversations with players. Sometimes it's like during the interview. Sometimes it's off camera before we start. A lot of players are starting to credit their player development coach.

[Nafeesa Collier]

I mean, you have to.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, well, no. Yeah. You gotta give them love. But I'm like, we didn't have them.

[Nafeesa Collier]

It was that burn of the day.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. We didn't have, like, you know, we had. I mean, God, there was a couple years. I'll take you back to. There was a couple years where we only had two assistant coaches. So we had a head coach, two assistants. Then they finally gave us the third one back. So you had a coaching staff of four and, like, I don't know, interns that would rebound for you.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

And so, you know, one coach can only do. Or four coaches, in this case, can only do so much.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Right.

[Kayla Thornton]

So to work individually and have somebody who's basically dedicated to sitting down with you, watching film, showing your mechanics, it obviously really helps a lot. A lot of players are having this. So I think it really is just a glimpse into where the WNBA is going.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Absolutely.

[Kayla Thornton]

I remember I opened up social media. Training camp was starting, and I think it was the Mystics. Not to bring up old stuff, but I think it was the Mystics and they took a staff picture and I was blown away. I was. There's, like 20 people in this picture.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

Our staff. Like I said, it was like four.

[Nafeesa Collier]

That's how New York was.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. Yeah. So it's getting. It's really just wonderful to hear all these stories. All right. You've already talked about the fan base a little bit, but so what's like. I mean, I went to a game. You guys shellacked the storm. Whoa. Yeah, it was a bad day out for. For the green and gold, but the game is a vibe.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yes.

[Kayla Thornton]

So what is it like playing in that arena right now, man?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Bajala is just bahala bahaling. Yeah, it's just. It's like electrified. Like I tell people, like, you really can't explain it till you go and you, and you and you explain. Like, it's, I think, top tier, you know, on top of New York. Besides shout out to Ellie, you know, nobody can. Nobody can write Ellie, Ellie. But no, it's just. It's amazing. I think our first game, you know, that we had against la, you know, we lost, but they were cheering like, we won, and I was just so confused. Like, y', all, we just lost. I understand. This is like a new franchise, so we have to, like, teach you guys, like, you know, don't cheer too much for the other team when they get called out. Like, they were like, Kelsey Plum, Woo. And we're just like, okay, that's supposed to be for us, you know, but we were just like, look, let's give them grace. You know, this is their first time. Like, we have new fans that don't know how this works, you know, so they kind of caught on. So, like, you know, when they boo, that's, you know, so it's been amazing. It's been amazing. It's been amazing.

[Kayla Thornton]

I mean, you're already having such an impact on the franchise and it's really no surprise. Again, given just kind of like all that you've been through, you're really, like the perfect player to start a franchise that's just starting. You're really able to, like, leave a lot of your fingerprints on it. So is that something you think about? Like, do you think about legacy in terms of you're going to be the first to do a lot of things there, right?

[Nafeesa Collier]

No, for sure. I don't really think about stuff. I don't like to think about stuff like that because then you get caught up into it.

[Kayla Thornton]

You know what I always say, though? They only ask you about legacy if you've already done it. So you're doing something right. You're doing something here. Yeah. Give it up. Give it up. That was bad. That was bad.

[Nafeesa Collier]

That was bad.

[Kayla Thornton]

That was a bad one.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. But no, it's an honor. I mean, it's a testament to our players, our coaches, you know, the hard work we put in. And that's all I can say, like, you know, yeah, it's the first of a lifetime for all of it, but it's great to sit back and see, like, dang, you know what I am Doing this and stuff like that. So I could take a little bit of pride in that and take that in and just be thankful for that.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, well, I mean, like I said, you're doing something right. That's why you're here in Indiana. Your very first All Star. What was that phone call like? Finally you're getting a good call.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, well, I didn't really get the phone call because I was in practice, and then I got to my phone, and then, like, normally I don't read my voicemails, but I had a voicemail from a random number, but it said, hello, this is Kathy Engelbert. So I was just like, what does Kathy want? Like, you know, like, what? So, like, you know, I opened the voicemail, and it's like, hey, this is Kathy Emberburg, and I just want to say that you are, you know, 20 all star. And I was like, whoa.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah. I said, whoa. I was like, whoa. Like, I was just like, whoa.

[Kayla Thornton]

Were you like, whoa?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, I was like, whoa.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so you put the phone down. Are you like. I mean, you're like, whoa.

[Nafeesa Collier]

But I was at the gym. I was just. Actually, you know, we finished practice, and, oh, you know, Lady O, she had talked to me about something. I went back to her, and I was just like, yo. And she's like, yeah, but we can't tell nobody. Da, da, da, da, da. But I had told my mom, and then I had. I did tell two people because I couldn't keep them from them.

[Kayla Thornton]

Of course.

[Nafeesa Collier]

You know, I had to be in Booty Chee. I mean, Kate Martin. Kate Martin. Yeah. Yeah. What are we calling her?

[Kayla Thornton]

What are we calling her? Is that her Booty Cheeks?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Booty Cheeks. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, sorry.

[Kayla Thornton]

Oh, man.

[Nafeesa Collier]

So I had to ask.

[Kayla Thornton]

Do I ask?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, Sorry.

[Kayla Thornton]

Dare I ask?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Look, Sorry. But, yeah, So I told them, too. But it was. It was. I was happy. I was.

[Kayla Thornton]

I was celebrating with them a little bit.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

[Kayla Thornton]

That's really fun. God. All right, so I really want to ask about the Booty Cheeks. I'm like, do I even do this? Are you open to what? Why?

[Nafeesa Collier]

I don't know why I call her Booty Cheeks. I think maybe she was dancing one day, and, like, she was really just shaking it. I was like, yeah, Booty Cheeks.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah.

[Nafeesa Collier]

And ever since then, she's like, Booty T. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

Oh, my God, I love that. Well, you have certainly arrived. Like I said, you're an All Star. It's so amazing when you think about the actual game Is there anybody that you haven't played with before that you're excited to play with on your roster?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, Aja Wilson. Yeah, yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

That'd be fun.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Actually, all of them, but.

[Kayla Thornton]

No, I know. Yeah. You can have faith.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Asia Wilson. Asia Wilson.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah. You probably had to guard her quite a bit. Yeah, yeah. Like, how hard is that?

[Nafeesa Collier]

She's a tough one. Yeah, there's a lot of tough ones, but she's tough.

[Kayla Thornton]

I know. Well, she's tough. She. Guys, yeah, she had, like a huge game against you guys the other day, and I watched. Listen, you beat the storm by 30. It's fine. We can talk about the wins and the losses. You know what I'm saying? No, but I actually only got to catch the last, like, two minutes. But then I was, like, curious because they were talking about her big game. I was like, let me go see. And it was like the very first play of the game. She kind of, like did a little jab step vibe and like hit like a pull up. And I was like, yeah. I was like, oh, yeah, her wrist was fine. Yeah, Turns out her wrist was fine.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, her wrist was fine.

[Kayla Thornton]

But I remember, like, oh, she's such a tough guard. Well, man, I mean, I'm just so happy for you. I really feel like I've been able to watch you grow, like, from afar, for sure. But it's been fun to watch players. I always love who doesn't the underdog story. And it's been really, really fun to watch you. I don't know if you know this, but including you, there have only been seven undrafted players to make the All Star team. Seven in the history of the league. And here are some of the names, some you'll know for sure, some I'm curious if you know Becky Hammond. She's one. Damiyah Walker. Okay. Erica D'. Souza. She's Brazil. From Brazil, Anna DeForge. Mwadi Mabika. Who, by the way, if Mwadi Mabika was playing today, she'd be killing people, I'm telling you. So. Good. And then Erica Wheeler was the Last one in 2019 who was the All Star Game MVP. So no pressure on that, but how proud does this make you? Especially now we've all talked about. Or now everybody knows your journey. Undrafted to the face of a franchise, a new franchise, and now an All Star. What is. Do you ever take. I know you're saying you don't really take these minutes, but I have to imagine that sentence right there. Gotta make you proud.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, It's a blessing and, you know, it goes all to God. But. Yeah, it's just. I don't know, sometimes I don't have words for it. I just sit back and I just, like, just think, like, all my hard work that I've put in and now it's kind of coming to pass. I never thought I was gonna be an All Star. Really. That was never a goal of mine. But for it to come, I'm like, hey, you know, but it's exciting and it's. It's crazy to be amongst All Stars, including yourself and stuff like that, and to experience this so words can't describe it.

[Kayla Thornton]

Was it hard guarding me at all?

[Nafeesa Collier]

You know what, like, ever. You know what it was. Because you're very smart. So I think you kind of.

[Kayla Thornton]

You know, I get this a lot.

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah, you. I was young, so I was just very. Not really smart at the time. So you kind of knew what. Yes. You knew what to do. So that was. It was kind of tough. Yeah, yeah. And outright, but still.

[Kayla Thornton]

Yeah, I know. I'm like, oh, God. Nope. Still engulfed over here. Just living in some jello. Well, Kayla, you are an inspiration for players who have to have, like, determination, but also this belief in themselves. Right. Like that nobody else is giving you. You have to have it because sometimes they don't see it yet. They don't see it yet. So I just want to thank you so much for coming on. This is such a pleasure. I love getting to know you more. Shout out to Kayla. Gotta give a quick shout again. Thank you to Google Pixel. Google Pixel is challenging fans to step into the future of the game using Google's technology to elevate every moment and keep them ahead of what's next. We're gonna take a selfie. Cause you know, if you don't take a selfie, it doesn't happen. You want to. Do you want to do together a double selfie?

[Nafeesa Collier]

Yeah.

[Kayla Thornton]

Okay. Okay. I like this. There's like a weird shadow.

[Nafeesa Collier]

I think we have to stand up.

[Kayla Thornton]

I'm going to go this amazing. Thank you guys for coming. Shout out to Kayla. Good luck in the game tomorrow. All right, that's it. This episode is a co production of Together in Vox Media. Our producers are Tommy Alter, Jason Gallagher.

[Sue Bird]

Richie Bozek, Harry Krinsky and Jess Clarendon. Melanie Carter.

[Kayla Thornton]

And a special thanks to Ramon Danpour.

[Sue Bird]

Support for this show comes from Google Pixel. You can make magic happen with Google Pixel. Use it to create amazing photos and videos, get more done and keep your info safe. Plus, it comes built in with Gemini, your handy AI assistant made to help supercharge your ideas, making your smartphone a smarter phone. Meet Pixel 9 Pro A stunning new design, the advanced AI power of Gemini, and their best camera yet. You can learn more about the new Google Pixel 9 with Gemini Live on the Google Store. Sequences shortened. Gemini Live available for ages 18, compatible with certain features and with certain accounts. Results for illustrative purposes and may vary. Check responses for accuracy.