Kelsey Plum Opens Up About Leaving the Aces, Proving Herself, and Leading the Sparks

Summary

Podcast: Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Episode: Kelsey Plum Opens Up About Leaving the Aces, Proving Herself, and Leading the Sparks
Date: August 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this powerful and candid episode, Sue Bird welcomes WNBA superstar Kelsey Plum to discuss her highly publicized move from the Las Vegas Aces to the Los Angeles Sparks, the origins of her competitiveness and unshakeable confidence, her journey of constant self-proving, navigating the business and pressure of today’s WNBA, and how she’s embracing being the leader on a young, hungry Sparks squad. The conversation covers family influences, overcoming adversity, elite work ethic, mental health, teamwork, league narratives, and the evolving landscape for women’s basketball today. Expect compelling storytelling, vulnerable admissions, and plenty of insight into both Kelsey’s unique mentality and the state of the WNBA.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins of Plum’s Drive: Family, Upbringing, and Early Basketball Dreams

[15:32–19:04]

• Kelsey reflects on being shaped by a highly athletic family, with parents and siblings excelling in volleyball and football.
• From a young age, her father instilled a sense of self-sufficiency:
  “He would set food. Go get it. He wouldn’t hand it, he would just set it. Gotta take it.” (KP, 15:34)
• Despite being a stronger volleyball player and having no basketball in her family, Plum zeroed in on the WNBA after watching Diana Taurasi’s boldness at UConn:
  “I just told my mom, I’m going to the WNBA. That’s what I want to do. There’s no plan B.” (KP, 17:26)

2. College Years, UW Growth, and the Scorer’s Mentality

[20:09–26:55]

• Chose UW inspired by her sister’s journey raising Oregon volleyball to new heights, wanting to lead a program rather than joining a Blue Blood.
• Finished her college career as the NCAA’s all-time scoring leader, breaking the record with 57 points on Senior Night.
• Plum describes the performance:
  “I definitely think I always had just a level of competitiveness… that day, I woke up… I did not feel good… and then, as the game’s going, you’re like, okay, pretty good.” (KP, 21:50)
• Her ambition at UW included pitching herself for a Storm internship just to be around the league (25:22).
  “Looking back, it’s delusional. I never once was like, it’s impossible. Just delusional, irrational confidence.” (KP, 26:02)

3. Transition and Struggles as the WNBA #1 Pick

[27:38–31:43]

• Drafted by San Antonio, but quickly felt like she didn’t fit existing plans and the “keys” weren’t handed over as with some top picks:
  “When I got there, it was very clear, made clear, ‘hey, we don’t want you here, but you’re here. We don’t know what to do with you.’” (KP, 28:18)
• Massive expectations carried over from her scoring numbers at UW led to “absurd” public forecasts and nightly bullseyes as a rookie:
  “I remember a poll came out: how many points will she average? Everyone said 20… I remember seeing that and being like, I’m screwed.” (KP, 30:27)
• Despite a strong rookie campaign by typical standards, her role and fit were always reported as uncertain.

4. Overseas Trials and Building Resilience

[34:03–35:41]

• First overseas stop: Fenerbahce in Turkey, one of the toughest situations for a rookie—one she now sees as formative:
  “There’s nothing you could throw at me now that would shake me emotionally… I got a lot of the hardest hits early.” (KP, 35:14)
• By year two in Vegas, after a productive overseas stint, she began to understand her value and gain confidence.

5. Proving Herself in Vegas – Again and Again

[36:00–39:01]

• Moved with the team to Vegas: had to overcome a head coach (Bill Laimbeer) reluctant to build around her:
  “Bill was very upfront… ‘I’m trying to trade you… you’re not my type of player’… again, delusional, I said: by the end of the year, I’m gonna win that spot.” (KP, 36:56–38:08)
• Played a critical supporting role as A’ja Wilson became the franchise foundation.
• Refused to be discouraged:
  “Chipping away. Every day. Not going away.” (KP, 38:08)

6. Adapting, Mental Toughness, and Redefining Her Game

[42:44–50:01]

• Discusses learning adaptability and perseverance through USA Basketball tryouts (a Survivor-like process, constantly being cut):
  “I’m just gonna find a way… Adaptability is a skill. I had to become adaptable—with my game.” (KP, 44:42)
• Overseas training and a serious Achilles injury led her to focus on physical transformation and build a pro-level work ethic—especially after working with renowned trainer Susan Borchardt: “Work with Susan is to be fit as fuck.” (SB, 51:12) “Step on the court and know: ‘I’m faster, stronger, in better shape, and I’ve endured more hell than you have.’” (KP, 51:38)
• Her adaptability across roles and teams became a personal point of pride:
  “You could put me in any situation, with any coach, with any players… I’m not just gonna figure out how to make it work, I”m gonna thrive.” (KP, 54:29)

7. The Aces’ Dynasty Run: Coming Off the Bench, the Delusion of Confidence, and Championship Mentality

[59:45–70:49]

• 2021: Embraced a sixth-player role and was named Sixth Woman of the Year, improving her efficiency and confidence.
• Frustrations at times about being overlooked or underused, yet she “doubled down” and waited for opportunity.
• 2022: New coach Becky Hammon initially slotted her for a bench role, which Plum took as motivation:
  “I set the phone down and almost lost it. I told [Becky], ‘I’m the best guard you have, and I will win that spot, so keep an open fucking mind’… First day in camp… I dominated.” (KP, 64:43)
• Discussions about playing in one of the game’s best backcourts with Jackie Young and Chelsea Gray, and the challenges/ego bumps of going back-to-back for championships:
  “Candace told me—after you win, everyone’s ego goes up a bit, and they all come back wanting more stats, more points, but really, you’re probably gonna do exactly the same.” (KP, 69:14)

8. Overcoming Adversity—Personal and Professional—& the Choice to Move On

[73:30–78:21]

• The hardship of the 2024 season: personal struggles (including her public divorce) and feeling her role becoming marginalized while sacrificing for the team: “I showed up and played, and had the best attitude I could, because that was awful. Just straight up awful. To experience publicly like that.” (KP, 73:30)
• With four Olympians, sacrifices for the “super team” eventually led to feeling capped out, underappreciated, and needing a new environment: “I felt like my growth was kind of capped in Vegas… can I ever reach the capacity of the player I know I can be?” (KP, 75:05)

9. Navigating the Modern WNBA: Media, Narratives, Burnout, and Respect

[82:17–96:06]

• The media and attention around the league now are at an all-time high—sometimes making the mental side of being a WNBA star monumental.
• The pressure and “parlay culture” of gambling and social media:
  “You don’t hit the over… you’re getting burned. That’s crazy. It’s a new world we’re in.” (KP, 84:42)
• On her controversial All-Star “Team Clark” joking comment, which landed awkwardly in a new, aggressively scrutinized environment: “Honestly, hindsight 20 20—I should’ve known it was a way more serious moment… I was just making a joke.” (KP, 85:58)
• On feeling undervalued/overlooked in media conversations and amongst her peers:
  “If you just read the impact or the stats, I think people would be like, ‘Oh!’… I think I get hit for lack of efficiency—super fair—but not everyone gets held to the same standard.” (KP, 87:28)

10. Choosing LA and Embracing Leadership/Legacy with the Sparks

[97:02–104:34]

• Her move to LA was about scratching a leadership itch, requiring the ultimate “bet on myself”: “If you really believe you can impact winning at the highest level, only one way to find out.” (KP, 97:48)
• Relationship with coach Lynn Roberts was key (“You’re my person. Let’s do this.” KP, 97:49)
• The trade was not simple and required months of patience—and conviction
• New role as a leader is “harder” than expected—being responsible “at a different level.” But she’s proud of how she’s handled the bumpy start as the Sparks try to build playoff momentum (101:33).
• Leadership model is “lead by example, belief, and empowerment” for young players, wishing she’d had more vets to confide in as a rookie.

11. Sparks Future: Mentoring, Playoffs Push, and Adapting to the “Head of the Snake”

[104:41–113:02]

• Raves about young star Rickea Jackson’s talent:
  “Birdie, the other day in practice… she blocked a guy at the rim. I’ve never seen that before.” (KP, 104:41)
• Describes the difference between being a role player versus “head of the snake”—greater responsibility, higher stakes, and need for patience.
• The team is finally healthy and making a push for the playoffs; Plum credits on-court chemistry, playing faster, and scorer confidence.
• Aims for team success first:
  “The playoffs—winning and impacting winning. That would be awesome. That’s success for now.” (KP, 113:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On her mindset and confidence:
  “My dad has a delusional level of confidence in everything... delusional, irrational confidence. I mean, you could say I still do now.” – Kelsey Plum (17:26, 26:02)
• On repeatedly having to prove herself:
  “Every turn I’ve had to basically, like, win whoever over—teammates, coaches... as hard as it’s been, it’s definitely been worth it.” (KP, 66:23)
• On the impact of a championship:
  “The first thing you think of is, I want to do this again... why not, why can’t we do this again?” (KP, 68:39)
• On the challenge of leading a rebuilding team:
  “It’s harder. Leading is harder. Being responsible at a different level… what you say, what you do—what you don’t say, what you don’t do—drastically affects outcomes.” (KP, 100:55)
• On her move to LA:
  “You get one swing at it… If you really believe you can impact winning at the highest level—only one way to find out.” (KP, 97:48)
• On mentoring young teammates:
  “I try to lead by example… looking back, I wish I had more vets that I could lean on to encourage me and empower me. That’s how I try to lead now—just belief.” (KP, 103:14)
• On being overlooked and peer voting:
  “Do I think I’m underrated?… I think people value you now, but I think there are times when players and their impact is overlooked.” – Sue Bird (91:03)
• On her self-perception as a player:
  “It’s never really about shine... it’s more about feeling like I’m the glue here. Call it what it is.” (KP, 93:02)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:02] – Sue’s rundown of 2026 draft picks and playoff-seeding gamesmanship
• [07:34] – Kelsey Plum’s cameo in Happy Gilmore 2, improv on set
• [11:03] – Sue questions Kelsey’s drive, “Have you arrived?” (personal fulfillment)
• [15:32] – Family upbringing and roots of Plum’s confidence
• [21:50] – Dropping 57 in record-breaking NCAA performance
• [28:18] – Drafted by San Antonio, initial misfit & culture shock
• [35:14] – Overseas adversity and grit at Fenerbahce
• [36:56] – Bill Laimbeer’s bluntness: “not my type of player,” trade rumors
• [44:42] – Making the World Cup team: adaptability as a survival skill
• [51:12] – The impact of trainer Susan Borchardt – mental and physical edge
• [54:55] – Achilles injury: relief, growth, and the mental reset (2020)
• [64:43] – Proving herself to Becky Hammon to win the starting role
• [69:14] – Candace Parker’s wisdom about chasing repeat titles
• [73:30] – Dealing with personal life turmoil (public divorce) and feeling capped
• [84:42] – Navigating new media attention and “parlay”/gambling pressure
• [85:58] – The “Team Clark” All-Star incident
• [97:48] – Why she chose the Sparks: legacy, leadership, risk
• [101:33] – Challenges of new leadership role
• [104:41] – Rickea Jackson’s shot-blocking: “never seen that before”
• [113:02] – Personal and team goals for present season: playoffs and impact

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode spotlights Kelsey Plum’s blend of honesty, humor, and relentless self-belief, as well as her refusal to be boxed into any one role or narrative. From candid stories of feeling overlooked to moments of vulnerable self-doubt, Plum lays out the constant push-pull of proving herself in a high-pressure, ever-evolving league. The tone is raw, lively, and often hilarious, with both Sue and Kelsey quick to poke fun at themselves, recall league “war stories,” and dissect not just stats but what it actually means to “arrive.” Their camaraderie, respect, and inside perspective make this a must-listen (and must-read) for anyone interested in athlete mindset, women’s sports, and the realities behind building a basketball legacy.

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This summary omits all advertisements, sponsor reads, and outro credits to focus solely on content.

Transcript

[Birdie]

Support for this show comes from Google Pixel. When the extraordinary is possible, never settle for less for your next phone upgrade. Meet the Google Pixel 9 Pro. It's got a stunning new design, the advanced AI power of Gemini, and their best camera yet. It's built to capture everyone in your group in beautiful resolution, including the person taking the photo. Now that's extraordinary. You can learn more about the new Google Pixel 9 with Gemini Live on the Google Store. Sequences shortened. Gemini Live available for ages 18 +. Compatible with certain features and with certain accounts. Results for illustrative purposes and may vary. Check responses for accuracy. Support for Bird's Eye View comes from Nike what was your biggest win? Was it in front of a sold out stadium or the first time you beat your teammate in practice? Nike knows winning isn't always done in front of cheering crowds. Sometimes winning happens in your driveway, on a quiet street at the end of your longest run, or in the blacktop for a pickup game. Nike is here for all the wins, big or small. They provide the gear you bring, the mindset. Visit nike.com for more information and be sure to follow Nike on Instagram, TikTok and other social platforms for more great basketball moments.

[Kelsey Plum]

Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea when you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need Pure Leaf iced tea.

[Birdie]

It's real brewed tea made in a.

[Kelsey Plum]

Variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next.

[Birdie]

The next time you need to hit.

[Kelsey Plum]

The reset button, grab a Pure Leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a Pure leaf. You haven't had one practice with me. You haven't had one game with me. How can you say that? She's like nothing's in stone. I just want to like prepare you mentally and I said I just want to let you know I'm the best guard you have and I will win that spot.

[Birdie]

Hey everybody, welcome back to Bird's Eye View. Few players in this league bring passion, grit and just pure competitiveness every single night. Like today's guest this season, she's putting up 19.8 points, 6.1 assists and 3.2 rebounds per game, killing defenses with her clutch shooting and creating plays that's keeping her team in the playoff hunt. From breaking NCAA scoring records to winning back to back WNBA championships, she's proven she's built for the biggest moments off the court She's a voice never afraid to speak her truth. Today on the pod, I'm so excited to welcome Kelsey Plumb. But first, you know what time it is. It's time for Sue's view. Okay, as we get closer to the end of the season, you're starting to hear more playoff talk and more specifically the playoff standings. Teams are going to be jockeying for position. Seems like to the very end. But I thought it would be a good time to remind everyone of which teams have other teams. 2026 first round draft picks. Why is this important? Because the bottom five teams in the league, the ones that don't make the playoffs, are in next year's draft lottery. So what if you're a team that doesn't make the playoffs or but you also traded your pick away. And also what if you're a team that makes the playoffs but has a non playoff teams pick. There is a game within the game that's happening in the league right now and if it's good for your team, it can give you something else to cheer for. So here's the rundown. Okay, I'll start by saying Atlanta, Dallas, Indiana, Portland and Toronto who are coming in new all have their first round picks. So all you fans, you're safe. But if the season finished today and all the other teams swapped for the highest pick available, this is what it would look like. Minnesota has Chicago's first round pick, Seattle has Vegas's and LA's first round pick. D.C. has its own first round pick plus Seattle's first round pick and via a swap will likely have New York's pick. Chicago via a swap will will likely have Connecticut's first round pick and Connecticut via likely swaps will finish with Minnesota and Phoenix's first round picks. It's a little confusing. Confusing for me too. The swaps are all unpredictable because they depend on where everyone finishes. But like I said, if it finished today, that's probably what it would look like. The two things that jump out to me are that Minnesota, who is in first place now, will likely finish in first place will also have a chance at the 2026 number one pick. That's insane. Also, depending on who makes the playoffs between Vegas, Seattle, LA and DC, it'll really impact things for Seattle and then a little bit for D.C. for those that really like the weeds. The other thing to remember is that because we have two new teams coming in the league next year, it's likely that everyone's pick outside the lottery. So starting at pick five will likely move down two spots. So again, if it finished right now, Minnesota's pick will be the 16th, New York's would be the 15th, and so on. Okay, next up, we're going to talk a little Las Vegas Aces. They had high expectations coming into the season, but have gone through some growing pains as they integrated Jewel Lloyd, adjusted to mostly a new bench and even had some changes in their coaching staff. They're currently on a four game winning streak and it seems like they're figuring some things out. So I want to take a closer look. Prior to this streak, they were struggling a bit in a few offensive categories. They were 10th in three point percentage, 11th in offensive rebounding percentage and seventh in offensive rating. In the last four games, they're now fifth in three point percentage, first in offensive rebounding percentage and first in offensive rating. These are major jumps. The top three players have been Jackie Young, who's averaging 20.3, Jewel Lloyd, who's finding her footing, averaging 15.8 and of course Asia Wilson. She's averaging 25.5 and recently just had a historic 30 and 20 game, first time in WNBA history. Are they getting more comfortable? Are they starting to find their rhythm? Time will tell, but this is definitely a great start. Last but not least, there's been a lot of LA talk recently and not just because I've had Dearricka Hamby and now Kelsey Plumb on the pod. They are surging after All Star break and are 8 and 3 in their last 11 games, including two big wins over my Seattle Storm. Plumb recently gave her opinion on who she thought the difference maker's been and it's Julie Alamon and I actually could not agree more. To steal Plum's words, Julie has been a calming force who plays well the pick and roll and and who has made numerous clutch plays for the Sparks. I don't even need to get into the numbers to know this is true, but I'm going to throw some at you just in case you need them. Julie is first on the team in net rating amongst those who have played like 20 or more games. She's second in assist, fourth in the league in assist to turnover, and fourth in the league in points per chance.

[Kelsey Plum]

In pick and rolls.

[Birdie]

What's more important is since she returned from the European Championship, the sparks are 10 and 5. Okay, I lied. I do have one more thing. So this is last, definitely not least. This weekend the Seattle Storm is unveiling the statue of myself. I don't even have words for it right now, but I will next week. I'm gonna Break it all down. I'm gonna tell you everything on how it happened. If you're in Seattle, Megan and I will be doing a touch more live at the Moore Theater. Come hang with us. Tickets are at attouchmore.com Seattle come check it out. Okay, first of all, I haven't seen Happy Gilmore 2 yet, but I know there's a big cameo. Tell me everything, Birdie.

[Kelsey Plum]

It was so fun. Yeah. Random. Like, my agent just called me and was like, hey, Adam called and, like, asked if you could be in Happy Gilmore too. And I was like, you're like, Adam who? Yeah, Sandler. What? And, um, I. I got onto set, and I've never done a movie. Yeah. Very different than commercial. Yeah. Um, so you're kind of just waiting all day. Cause they just kind of tape the scenes or whatever. So I got there at, like, say, they had me there at 6am like, ready to go. And it was really cool. Cause I was getting hair and makeup done, and Adam comes into the trailer, and he was just like, yo. And I was like, Like, I'm looking around, like, who are we yawing for? You know? And he was just like, do you know who this is? Like, he was, like, hyping me up. He's like, this one helped win us the gold. And I was like, shut up. And he was just like, whatever you need, you know? And so I had lines.

[Birdie]

Yeah, I saw some clips. I didn't see the full scene, though.

[Kelsey Plum]

No, but, like, Birdie, the lines that they gave me. And then when I got there, he's like, we're not doing that. This is what we're doing. And he, like, gave me different. And then.

[Birdie]

Did that throw you off?

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, I was like, okay. And like, it's so funny because I'm sure this has happened to you. Like, you're in pressure situations all the time. Oh, my podcasting is really stressful. But, like. But, like, you know, it's like, okay, I have lines. Like, I'm prepared. I get there. Adam's like, nope, we're not doing this. That's what we're doing. Okay. And then when I did it, he's like, no, you have to be a bigger bitch. Like, I need you to be more of a brat. Mm. So I'm like, okay. So, like, I have to just. Like, I had to do take after take of just being, like, brattier and brattier to him. Like, so disrespectful. Like, more condescending.

[Birdie]

Did you like the coaching, though?

[Kelsey Plum]

Loved it.

[Birdie]

So is that, like, this is kind of you, like, being coached hard.

[Kelsey Plum]

I. Not the first time around the blood being coached hard. Yeah, but it was really cool because he writes, produces, is in front, behind to watch him work and then to be in the scenes with all the other comedians. Yeah.

[Birdie]

And the improv, that's when you get to see genius at work.

[Kelsey Plum]

Because what they were doing, I'm like, none of this is on this. You know, they're doing crazy stuff. Yeah. I ended up just being at home because I was like, oh, this is like my family. Just, like, live. It was awesome.

[Birdie]

You were obviously improving on some level because he was just throwing lines at you. Did you add anything?

[Kelsey Plum]

100%.

[Birdie]

You were, like, giving your own little flavor. Yeah, I love that. Is it something now? Did you get, like, a taste of it?

[Kelsey Plum]

I got a taste of it. I would definitely love if the opportunity presented itself. I'm in. All right. Plum for cameos. Plum for cameos.

[Birdie]

No, like I said, I was a huge Happy Gilmore fan. I haven't watched the second one yet, but it's on. It's in the camera.

[Kelsey Plum]

Let me know what you think.

[Birdie]

I will. I will. I saw the clip. I saw the clip you're in, but I need to see, like, the full scene, you know, the whole buildup of it.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, that's super dope.

[Birdie]

Congratulations. Okay, I'm going to start with a little bit of a banger. I have one question for you that I want to start with. I would describe your career as like, you, like you started out, like, wanting maybe even having to prove something like this is like, I got to prove a lot. Like when I'm entering the WNBA and you sit here now as a two time WMA champion, a four time WNBA all star, a two time Olympic gold.

[Kelsey Plum]

Medalist, three on three. And five. And five.

[Birdie]

Your number was retired this past year at uw. You have, like a laundry list of other individual accolades that I could do. Do you. You not like other people? Do you feel like you've arrived?

[Kelsey Plum]

Arrived is like, super interesting. I definitely feel very secure in who I am. Okay. Arrived, I think would be, like, at the end, in my opinion, to be honest, until I help turn the sparks around. No. Okay.

[Birdie]

So that feels like a little bit of a. Not a bucket list, but a little bit of a checklist. Almost like I've done this, I've done that. Oh, I haven't been this key contributor on a franchise that's trying to get somewhere that it historically has been.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. Like, I think that being in different roles throughout my career, I've done Really well. But this is the first time where it's like, oh, no, you're shouldering the most responsibility.

[Birdie]

Right.

[Kelsey Plum]

And we talked about it off, like, in the off season, it was just more of, like, making a decision. Okay. Like, if you're really as good as you think you are, and, like, you really think you have everything it takes, go do it. So, like, that's his answer. We have not arrived. That's a short answer. Okay.

[Birdie]

No, it's just crazy, like, considering you left college as the NCAA leading scorer, you were the number one pick. It does sound crazy that there was, like, doubters or that, like, you had to prove people wrong. But I feel like coming out, there was a lot of just conversation around the number one pick, which we're gonna get to. Cause I remember I have, like, vivid memories of that experience for you, but I just feel like. And by the way, you got hurt early in your. In your WNBA career, so there's just, like, chatter. There's, like, conversation. And by the way, this isn't necessarily even unique to you. I think every number one pick has, like, some form of a bullseye and a question mark. They just, like, kind of come hand in hand. But, yeah, it's crazy. And I think with that comes, like, a chip. Comes a chip, comes a mindset. So now that. I mean, you haven't arrived, but now that you have had success and you have had championships and accolades and all the things, do you think that chip and that mindset for you, whatever that is for you, however you would describe it, I don't mean to put words in your mouth. Do you think that's, like, still a part of you? Is it still fueling you, or has it changed because you've had some success?

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, I think it's funny because, like, number one picks, I agree with you that there's always something, right?

[Birdie]

Always.

[Kelsey Plum]

I do think mine was a little bit more nuanced because I didn't get handed any keys. Not saying that people get handed keys, and it's just like, no, I got handed keys. People get had keys, you get handed keys, and, like, there's growing pains, but then it's built structurally bring people in, compliment you. There's a little bit of a grace period of, like, okay, you know, and obviously, some people like our instant transition. Some people take a little bit longer. Whatever. Mine was very, like. And this is not an excuse to just reality what it was. I didn't get the keys. And then, of course, then next year, then Asia got the keys as she should have and it was kind of like, I don't know, really where my place is, coaches, GMs, it's just very different. Right. So I think that the chip that I have will always be there, because, like, yeah, maybe I got the keys. It was like eight years later, and I had to, like, almost die for it. You know what I mean? So it's like, I guess I would say it's not really the same traditional path. And I mean, even the way I play now, like, I think I'll always just be like that because that's how hard I've had to do to get to this point. Yeah.

[Birdie]

And so I think what I'm curious about is, like, where does that come from? Right. Like, if we go back to just like, your family for a second, like, family of origin. You grew up in a house of athletes, Right. Both your mom played volleyball, your dad played football, both your sister played volleyball, your brother played football. I can only imagine. Just, like, all the nonsense. I can, like, literally only imagine. Do you think they shaped any of this, like, competitiveness that we see in you?

[Kelsey Plum]

Of course.

[Birdie]

Okay, so in what ways?

[Kelsey Plum]

Of course. I mean, I think, you know, my dad was just like, even from the moment, like, in the high chair of, like, he would set food. Go get it. He wouldn't hand it, he would just set it. Like, gotta take it. You know, it's like, classic. And I know it sounds like, super cliche and over the top, but everything was like that. Just like, I remember my parents saying, hey, basketball tryouts are next week. Here's the number. Call the coach, tell them that you're coming. Like, my parents were very much like, if you want something, you're going to have to figure out how to. If you. If you're going to your tournament in Los Angeles, I lived in San Diego. Print out the MapQuest. Yeah. And, like, what time do you need to leave? Like, you need to make it happen, which is a great life skill. Now, as a kid, you're like, this is ridiculous. You know, but, yeah, for sure. And I'm. I'm really grateful because I think that, like, I've always grown up learning. And even too, like, watching my siblings, the way they do their lives in, like, business and things like that, like, they're the same way. It's just like, there's nothing free. There's nothing free in this life. And if you want it, like, there's a bunch of excuses. There's also a bunch of reasons why you can go get it.

[Birdie]

Yeah, no, I'm really interested in just like you. The thought of you, like, being shaped to what we know now. Right. So I feel like some of it is your family. I knew you watched Diana in college, and I know that you've always kind of, like, you know, looked up to her and, like, view her in, like, a really. You put her on a very high pedestal. I didn't know that. It was, like, a UConn Tennessee game, UCD. And you're, like. You're taken by her. What it said in the article was aura.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

So I feel like how. I'm curious how that plays a role just in, like, you choosing basketball. You got a whole family of volleyball players. So, like, when did that enter the picture, and how did it impact you?

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, I watched her play on the couch on ESPN against Tennessee, and she was talking to camera, and she's like. And I was like, yo, I've never seen a woman, like, act like that, play like that. Swag, like, making plays, all different types of plays. And I just literally told my mom, I'm like, I'm going to the wnba. That's what. That's what I'm doing. That is literally what I want to do. Um, and, yeah, everyone in my family, no one plays basketball, Right? No one plays basketball. Huge volleyball family. I was a way better volleyball player. Way better volleyball player. Interesting. I had, like, a lot of scholarship offers, like, young, but I just was not in it like that, you know? And so, yeah, I just think that I saw that, and I just held onto it, and I wasn't. I tell kids all the time. I'm like, I came off the bench in high school. I wasn't like this. You know, I just had like, this passion and this dream for, like. No, I. And I credit my dad a lot because my dad has a, like, a delusional level of confidence in everything. Like, plumber. He's always. He calls everyone plumber, plumber. In life, you get what you expect, you better expect to win. Plumber, plumber, literally everyone. And it's so funny. Birdie, like, by the different dialect tone, that's how you know Plumber, plumber, Who.

[Birdie]

I was talking to.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yes. It's crazy. I don't know. All my siblings, we just know that is crazy. But, yeah, just this delusional level of confidence. And I just was like, this is what I'm doing. There's no plan B. And so that's kind of where that DNA came from. Yeah.

[Birdie]

So when it comes to choosing a college, like, what's that process? And why did you end up going to uw.

[Kelsey Plum]

So my older sister played volleyball, went to Oregon. Phenomenal volleyball player. Very similar to me in, like, basketball sense. Like, a little bit undersized, good athlete. Not, like, knocking a bully out of the water on the eye test. Just has a great feel and just like, gunslinger. Okay. She went to Oregon and she took him to the national championship. And Oregon was very much like, middle low, PAC 10 at the time. And I watched her do it when I was in high school, and I was like, that is so cool. And so that kind of inspired me. And so when I was being recruited, I kind of just fell in love with Seattle, Washington, and that's why.

[Birdie]

So you wanted to be able to take a program and bring it somewhere.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, because it's like. And, like, no offense to the people that go to Blue Bloods, but, like, it's. It's.

[Birdie]

UConn wasn't really a Blue Blood one.

[Kelsey Plum]

No, no, no, no.

[Birdie]

They only won once.

[Kelsey Plum]

Fair. Super fair. But, like, I was like, you know what? I don't know. I just. I'd rather try to be. Try to go beat him.

[Birdie]

Yeah, no, I have tons of respect for that. Okay, so back to you, Dub. We all know the end of the story. I already mentioned you finished your career as the NCAA leading scorer. You lead U, Dub, to a Final Four. So you accomplished your goal, in a sense, to take a school. You wanted to win the whole thing.

[Kelsey Plum]

I mean, UConn was. No one was gonna win that game that year.

[Birdie]

But I want to go back to the. Leading the NCAA in scoring, because this is just my opinion, Right? Yes. You have to be an elite scorer to do that, obviously. But it's not just about putting the.

[Kelsey Plum]

Ball in the hoop.

[Birdie]

Right. Do you have to be able to do that at, like, a very high level in all the ways? Absolutely. But to me, it's like, even when somebody just leads the country and scoring in college, no matter what school, it just, to me, speaks to something else. Like, there's something else happening in, like, the mentality. Call it a scorer's mentality. Call it, you know, a killer mentality, whatever. I just think there's something else to it. To give everyone a quick refresher. You were. And Megan was at this game, I was devastated that I could not go. But you were 50. You needed 54 points to tie Jackie Styles, who was number one at the time. You needed 55 to break it. You go out there on senior night and drop 57. Like, this isn't just like, oh, I had a good scoring day. Like, I had a good shooting day. This is like, a mentality. Like, that's how I see it. So what I'm curious about is, like. Or what I want to know is, do you think you always had that? Do you think that was something you developed while in high school, in college? Like, did it come to you, or did you just always have it?

[Kelsey Plum]

I definitely think I always had the. Just a level of competitiveness. Regardless of what was happening that particular day, though, I remember it because I woke up and it was like, I know you feel like this.

[Birdie]

You know?

[Kelsey Plum]

Like, golly, I did not feel good. Like, my body. Like, everything hurts.

[Birdie]

Best game of your life.

[Kelsey Plum]

You know what I mean? And, like, as the game's going, you're like, okay, first quarter. Like, not first quarter, because it was halves at the time. I'm like, okay, 10 minutes in, feeling pretty good. We can do this, you know? And then the halftime. All right. And then they keep going under. That's literally. That was honestly what I was thinking. I'm like, golly, how many do I have to make for them to keep going under? I just realized something.

[Birdie]

This might. You might have to cut this.

[Kelsey Plum]

But I just realized something was.

[Birdie]

Lynn.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

Okay. So you played against Utah.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

So that means your current coach, Lynn Roberts, is the head coach at the time. Have you ever asked her like, yo.

[Kelsey Plum]

Bro, why'd you keep going under? She told me on the way to the game, one of her assistants came up to her and was like, hey, you realize plum needs 50 whatever to break it? She's like, yeah. And then she told me. She's like. And then that actually happened. 57.

[Birdie]

That was incredible. Like I said, I was devastated that I couldn't go.

[Kelsey Plum]

I remember Megan. I remember Megan in this dance. It's so funny.

[Birdie]

I know. I don't remember. I wasn't in town. I don't remember, like, where I was or what I was doing. But what I remember is either the night before, like, it was the night before probably, like, talking about something, reading something, whatever. And it was like, oh, Plum's close to breaking it. It's senior night. Megan was like, oh, I gotta go, just in case. And it was. It is kind of like, oh, is she gonna get 54? You know you're gonna get 55. You don't know that. But Megan, I don't know. She has an intuition about those things. Do you remember Adia Barnes bringing you to Storm games?

[Kelsey Plum]

Of course. I had the headset on. I was in the back with the sound. Oh, my gosh. It was awesome.

[Birdie]

What do you remember about it, though?

[Kelsey Plum]

I remember feeling like, oh, my gosh. Like, they are so next level. Because I was young. I was 18. I was a baby. I was a freshman. And I just remember watching and being like, okay, I really want to do this. But, like, whoa. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Like, what was the. Why did you come to the games? Like, did Adia invite you? Were you like, hey, Adiya, I'd like to go? Adia, at the time was doing the radio for us, so she was at every home game. She was still coaching UW as an assistant. But, like, what did you want to do it?

[Kelsey Plum]

I actually took a class in uw and you could, like, intern. And so I pitched it to her.

[Birdie]

Okay.

[Kelsey Plum]

I was like, let me be your intern. Double, double school credit. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Yo, you know what I have written in my notes? Tell me. I wrote, adia Barnes used to take you to the games. And then I wrote my memory, and then I wrote it out, and it was like, ambition. Like, that's what I was struck by you in that moment. So the fact that you pitched this as an intern, I mean, that has ambition written all over it. But what I remember was, like, you just had. Yeah, you just had, like, a ambition about you that you. That this is what you were gonna do. This is what I wanna do. This is what you're. Maybe it's sounds like it's something that's leaked over from, like, your dad a little bit, but it's like, this is what I wanna do. This is what I'm doing. And that's how it felt every time I saw you at those games. It was like, oh, this kid wants to be here. Like, this is a kid that in, you know, four years is gonna be here. Is that. Is that. Maybe that's. Maybe you kind of answered. Maybe that's just, like, something from your dad, but, like, what's happening? You're a freshman in college doing that.

[Kelsey Plum]

No, I look back at it now, Birdie, and it is kind of delusional. Like, I look back at it now, and my mom. I give my mom a ton of credit because I remember I told her, like, when I was 10, I think I was like, hey, I'm going to the league. And my mom is a very, like, rational, steady, like, devil's advocate. Like, you know, hey, have you thought about this? And she said she actually walked out of the room and cried because she was like, at the moment, at the time, she's like, I don't think this kid has any idea what she's saying and how hard that is. Right. And, like, it was like my child.

[Birdie]

Getting set up for hard.

[Kelsey Plum]

Exactly. And so. But she, to give her credit, never, like, waved was just like, hey, let me know what you need from me. And so I just really, like, my parents were critical and just like, never. Never waving on that. But, yeah, definitely. I look back now and, like, that's absurd. That, like, I never once was, like. It was, like, delusional, irrational confidence. I mean, you could say I still do that now, but a little bit more of like.

[Birdie]

No, you do. There's gonna be. As we go through this interview, there's like, multiple times where. And right next to ambition, what I have written is belief. There's multiple times where you just were likely the only one believing in yourself, but you did. So I think that's. I don't think it's delusion. I think it's who you are. Okay. When you look back on your UW experience, like, what do you think you got from it that you maybe didn't expect?

[Kelsey Plum]

I mean, I definitely didn't. I was, like, the underdog the whole time. And then it's like, overnight it flipped, like we talked about with the expectations. So I think, if anything, it gave me, like, a false sense of reality. And, like, I don't mean that by any, like, disrespect. I love my experience, and it was tremendous. But it was definitely like, the bubble got popped, you know? Cause it's like, you're a college kid. You're just going out here playing as hard as you can, having fun, scoring all these points, and then you. You come to the wnba and it's like, I don't even play this sport. I play a different sport. You know, like, that transition period. So probably say that that's an interesting take.

[Birdie]

So, yeah, you obviously get drafted number one, you go to San Antonio. But back to what I was saying earlier, like, there was just, like, I just. For some reason, my memory of it, it was just, like, a lot of conversation. Like, they have Mariah Jefferson, Kayla McBride was drafted there, like, even just a couple years before that. So they have, like, this young backcourt. And you are the number one pick. Like, you should be the number one pick. You are the number one pick. But then this team already has a guard, already has guards. So I just feel like there was, like, chatter about it. And I remember you came to.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

To come play pick. Okay, what do you remember about it? So you came to play pickup with us with the storm or at the storm facility.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, it was Awesome.

[Birdie]

I played, if we call it a facility. Wasn't quite a facility just yet back then, but whatever.

[Kelsey Plum]

Side note, my favorite is, like, the rope hanging in the corner. Oh, I know. That was my favorite. No, I remember I got drafted and it was me and Jenny. We walked outside and I was just more kind of at a loss for words because I got drafted. But there was very much of a, hey, we're not really sure what to do with you. And I was kind of like, well, you guys are the number one pick. Like, you could have traded it for something else, or you could have picked me and then traded it, or you could have done a lot of things. And so to have a lot of the indecision and I get there, we're put in a tough place. You have GMs and front office people that maybe want to go one way. You have coaches that want to go another way. And it was tough because when I got there, it was very clear, made clear, like, hey, we don't want you here, but you're here. So. Yeah, we don't know what to do with you.

[Birdie]

So. Okay, so you get there.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

And. Well, first and foremost, like, the expectations of a number one pick are very interesting. They're interesting. We already discussed. Everybody has a different situation. I remember after I got drafted, Jen Azy, who is like, my. See It Be it, one of my favorite players of all time. It's so amazing to even get to, like, interact with her now. But I remember, honestly, it was probably in, like, an actual newspaper. I remember reading a quote where she just got asked and it wasn't anything bad. The vibe of the quote was number one picks usually get judged by scoring. And she was almost like, feeling bad for me. Cause I'm not like a. I'm not like a. I'm not a scorer. I'm not leading any teams in scoring. She was like, yeah, I just feel like sue might get judged by scoring, and that's a tough spot to be in. So even then, I remember being like, oh, my God. What? When you get judged by scoring, it was, like, so confusing for me. But for you, being like an actual scorer, all the expectations, like, what do you think was harder to deal with? The expectations or the actual adjustment to the WNBA itself?

[Kelsey Plum]

The expectations? Yeah. I think it was because the numbers in college I had were so irrational, especially my senior year, that I remember a poll came out. It was like, how many points do you think she's going to average as a rookie? And everyone said, 20. Yeah, you're leading the League. Do you know how hard that is to do?

[Birdie]

Like, yeah, actually, I don't. I've never done it, but, yeah, it seems really hard.

[Kelsey Plum]

But, you know, like, is it, like.

[Birdie]

It's very hard. There's, like, maybe a couple people that do it a year now. It's getting more. But for a very long time, there were some years where nobody did it.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. 1918 a game. So I remember seeing that and being like, I'm screwed. I'm like, oh, my.

[Birdie]

Who can live up to this?

[Kelsey Plum]

Gosh, like, this is absurd. So I think that. And then obviously, too, like, you said the target. I mean, every night, you know, someone has you. Yeah. What's your experience with that? Well, it's so interesting because I, like, in the last couple years, there's been a big debate about, like, people coming at and everyone. And everyone's experience is, like, different. All I know is that people came to kill me. Yeah. Like, I think a little bit more than the normal number one pick. I think being, like, small a guard, like, it was very. And, like, media was, like, blowing up at the time Instagram started to become big.

[Birdie]

All through that T shirt.

[Kelsey Plum]

Through the T shirt. It's the greatest accomplishment of my career. Did you see today somebody turned it into the Atlanta dildo? I did see that. Someone showed me on the plane. I'm like.

[Birdie]

I was watching the game and I.

[Kelsey Plum]

Was like, I'm sorry, by the way.

[Birdie]

Is it neon green?

[Kelsey Plum]

Why does it have to be neon green? Oh, yeah, I saw it.

[Birdie]

Do you see Jordan Canada's reaction?

[Kelsey Plum]

No.

[Birdie]

Someone, like. I didn't catch it in real time, actually, but someone. I must have looked away. Somebody. One of her teammates was, like, telling her. And so you can see that her teammate's explaining it. And all you see is Jordyn go, like, her reaction is, like, perfect. It really summed it up. But yeah.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. So there's a video today of me throwing a neon.

[Birdie]

There's a video of you throwing.

[Kelsey Plum]

They put the AI. They changed, and it was just like.

[Birdie]

Soaring, you know, that's where the Internet wins.

[Kelsey Plum]

That's where we like the Internet, undefeated. Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's where we. Last week we didn't like it. This week we like.

[Birdie]

Yeah, it's a love hate.

[Kelsey Plum]

It's a love hate. But, you know, I think. I mean, I definitely think that everyone's situation is a little bit different. But, I mean, I got. I got. People were circling. I mean, even when we came to Seattle, it was Kelsey Plum night, my rookie year. Yeah. How is that fair?

[Birdie]

You know, you had your career high, like, at that point against. Against us.

[Kelsey Plum]

Honestly, I was just trying to make it through that game. Yeah, one of the.

[Birdie]

Well, I don't remember exactly which time because I'm sure you. I'm sure you came up to Seattle like twice that season, maybe.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

You had. You had your career high for, like, for your rookie year.

[Kelsey Plum]

Was it like 10 points? No, no. Oh, it was like 23. Wow. Yeah. And I read that little nugget today.

[Birdie]

So what's interesting about you talking about it is you still averaged eight and a half points. You still made all rookie team. Like, it wasn't like you were, you know, averaging one point and you were terrible. I get that eight and a half feels, but for a rookie, given I don't know the target on your back, given you started off with a. What is it? You rolled your ankle?

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, I rolled it bad. Yeah.

[Birdie]

So given all of that, it's like you had like, a pretty good rookie year by, like, rookie standards. I get that it's not what you want it to be necessarily, but I always find that interesting. And then you went overseas that year. How do you think playing overseas really, in general kind of helped with your game, like, but especially in that moment.

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, going to Fenner.

[Birdie]

Okay, before we get to Plum's answer real quick, Fenerbahce was her first stop overseas. Some people call it Fener, Plum does here. And it is one of the best clubs in Turkey. It's one of the. The best clubs in euroleague. But it's also a really tough place to play.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. As a rookie was like, you really like it spicy. We need to blame Lindsay for that one.

[Birdie]

It's a first. That's a. For a first stop. That's a spicy one.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

A lot of expectations. A lot of expectations.

[Kelsey Plum]

I mean, that. That was like, definitely. Those are like, I will say now I look back and there's nothing that you could throw at me now that would be shaking me emotionally just because I. I got a lot of the hardest hits early. Okay. So I think that helped me because as a player, you know, like, it's like, you can't go lower than this. You can't go lower than trying to cut me because I'm so bad. But, like, I have a guaranteed contract for two years, you know, so, like, what are you going to do? And then by the end of the season, like, I caught my role. Yeah. And. But yeah, it was. I mean, it was brutal.

[Birdie]

You figured it out.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. I think by the end of the Season, I think I actually ended up winning a Turkish League mvp, like, in the finals.

[Birdie]

So wait, so given your rookie year and how that went, given how you just explained overseas, Fenner, when you move into your second year, which you also moved to Vegas, and we're definitely going to get to that, you had a much better season, your second year, numbers are jumping. So what do you think you figured out from. From year one to year two?

[Kelsey Plum]

Just, like, the confidence, just feeling like, okay, you know, this was not a mistake. I do belong here. And then also too, I think you start to get used to your ex, what to expect game to game in wnba, right? What it's like, you've been to the cities before, You've been in the arenas before. There's a little bit more of like a familiarity.

[Birdie]

Do you think, or how much of a role do you think? Now you're in Vegas, so the team moves to Vegas. When I talked to Derica the other day, she was like, well, we actually, like, Plum's really good friends with Dejounte Murray. So we kind of knew about it before everybody else.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

So there was like a spill of the beans moment, which I really appreciated. So you already knew you were going. When the announcement came, I'm assuming you were excited to go from San Antonio to Vegas.

[Kelsey Plum]

Safe assumption. Yes.

[Birdie]

But getting back to it, you're now in a new city, and you've got Asia joining the team, and you've got Bill as a head coach. So what's the impact of that?

[Kelsey Plum]

Very similar to my experience in San Antonio. Bill was very upfront, which I appreciate about Bill. You know, I think the older you get, the more you appreciate when people are just, like, straight with you. Yeah. He's like, listen, trying to trade you.

[Birdie]

This is exactly what Derek said. I was like, this feels toxic.

[Kelsey Plum]

But if it worked. Well, he's like, basically, I'm trying to trade you, but my value had gone down, and so he wasn't gonna get what he wanted. Okay. And so you kind of had to.

[Birdie]

So he's like, I'm just sitting on you.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. And I basically, I'm gonna have to figure out how to play you enough to, like, get you to whatever. But, like, you're not my type of player. Bill has a very selective. Which is like, totally fine. You know, he likes super athletic guards, high, heavy, mid range. He likes guards to, like, elevate on their jump shot. I mean, listen, like, I mean, what.

[Birdie]

Did I tell you? Remember what I told you?

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. What with Bill. Yeah. No, wait. I know what I Told you. No. What did you tell me?

[Birdie]

I'm like, bill, don't hate me for this, but you do have a specific type of player, and I feel like it's like the point guard Deathland. It's like, where point guards go to die.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yes. Point guards go to die. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. I mean, basically, like. And then he loved Mariah. And so the whole year, it was very clear, like, all right, Mariah's my point guard trying to trade plumb. And again, it was just one of those things. I was like, you know what? Again, delusional. I said, by the end of the year, I'm gonna win the spot and he's gonna have to trade her.

[Birdie]

And how'd you do it?

[Kelsey Plum]

Honestly, Birdie's just chipping away. Just every day. Chipping away, like, not going away.

[Birdie]

Do you feel like you won him over?

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, I actually got. His daughter told me this year that he was really proud of me. Really? Yeah. And that meant a lot.

[Birdie]

That does mean a lot, because we're joking about, you know, guards and playing for Bill and whatnot. But I've always had respect for him because he knows what he likes, he knows what he wants, he knows how he wants to play. And even though you can tell, I've obviously never played with him, played for him, even in the, like, rough exterior, if you will, you know how he presents. He can be, like, intimidating, you know, on the inside, there's that, like, he's gonna tell a player that maybe not when you're playing.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, know me.

[Birdie]

But it's like, that exists. He has, like, an awareness to him that I feel like I've always noticed. But.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

Another part of that is Asia joining the team. Just real quick, when you look like you zoom out at her as a rookie to now just talk about her growth, especially, you basically had a front row seat to it for, what was it, four years or five years?

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. I mean, talk about expectations, right? That's someone that had big expectations, and I think she's completely superseded them and her growth every year. I think the thing I always appreciate and admire about Asia, even to this day, is she shows up every game. Like, there's a lot of. Not a lot, but there's our players where when you're talented, you can kind of, like, coast. She's a competitor. Like, when the game's on the line, she wants a ball. She's just like someone that big moments, like, she gets bigger. And I just really. I've always really, like, just respected and admired about that. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely see that.

[Birdie]

Support for this show comes from Google Pixel. It's 2025. You don't need to settle for just any old smartphone. You can have a smarter phone like the Google Pixel 9 Pro. Pixel 9 Pro comes with Gemini, your built in AI assistant that helps you supercharge your ideas. And now with Gemini Live, you can have an actual conversation with Gemini. So the next time you want to brainstorm party ideas, uncover interesting fun facts, or even get quizzed on basketball trivia, you can ask Gemini. And it features Pixel's best camera yet. Built to capture everyone in beautiful resolution. It has a pro triple rear camera, super res zoom now available for video, and their Add Me feature which gets your entire group in the pics, including the person taking the photo. All that adds up so you'll never have to miss a shot and never have to settle for less than extraordinary. Meet Pixel 9 Pro with a stunning new design, the advanced AI power of Gemini, and their best camera yet. Now we're talking. You can learn more about the new Google Pixel 9 with Gemini Live on the Google Store. Sequences shortened. Gemini Live. Available for ages 18. Compatible with certain features and with certain accounts. Results for illustrative purposes and may vary. Check responses for accuracy. Support for Bird's Eye View comes from Nike. No matter the team, no matter the ranking, every season starts with the same goal. Win it all. And Nike knows that reaching that goal starts long before the final whistle. It starts with the battles at practice, the losses that keep you up at night, and everything in between. Nike has the best gear to get you on the court, field or track, and pushing through your hardest moments. So whether you're the champ or you're looking to knock them off the pedestal, Nike is there to help you with winning no matter where you play. Visit nike.com for more information and be sure to follow Nike on Instagram, TikTok and other social platforms for more great basketball moments.

[Kelsey Plum]

You say you'll never join the Navy, that you'd never track storms brewing in the Atlantic and skydiving could never be part of your commute. You'd never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or fly so fast you break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Start your [e-mail], america's Navy. Navy forged by the sea.

[Birdie]

All right, so that fall, second year.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. Okay. Do you know, do you remember, like.

[Birdie]

Where you were and what you were doing? Because I do. It's not a trick question. You made the World cup team.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yes.

[Birdie]

You made the World cup team. All right. What did you learn in that experience about USA Basketball, but also just, like, about yourself, like, within it. Within USA Basketball.

[Kelsey Plum]

Wow.

[Birdie]

Because you were a baby.

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, my gosh.

[Birdie]

Yeah. You were a youngin.

[Kelsey Plum]

You know, it's very similar to the experience, though, of, like, chipping away, because. I don't know. That experience was unique because we started with, like, 25 people. Yeah. And we kind of took everyone on the road, which is, like, different than. And then it's kind of like after every game, they cut people. Yeah. I know. Sometimes it's brutal. And so it was just kind of like Survivor. Yeah. Still here. Yeah. So I was just like, hey, listen, like, I'm just. You're just not gonna be able to cut me. Like, I'm just gonna find a way. I don't know what it is, but I think, like, adaptability is a skill. And that's something that. Because of the way my career and, like, journey, just the things that have been thrown, I've had to become adaptable, like, my. With my game. So USA Basketball. I'm very different as a player, but, like, totally bought into it. And, yeah. I remember being in the locker room and they told me I made the team. And one of the reasons they said I made the team is they're like, you have a good attitude. And I was like, say less. That's awesome. I love paint. Yeah. And I just remember being in the locker room and like, yeah, you're. Because at the time, it was like, what? Ud. Sil. Elena. I'm trying to think, like, Asia's on the team. Asia's on.

[Birdie]

Dewey's on the team. Bg.

[Kelsey Plum]

Bg. It was like, powerhouses, right? You're just kind of looking around and I'm a baby. And I'm like, wow, it was cool. Yeah, I definitely remember that.

[Birdie]

Was making the Olympic team ever a goal before that and in making that team, like, change it for you, did it make you more hopeful? Did it?

[Kelsey Plum]

I wasn't really in the basketball. USA basketball system. Like, I played at under 18s a little bit late. So then it was that. And then that was my only experience, and it was the worlds. So after I made that team, then I realized I'm like, oh, the Olympics is like, that's a thing, you know? So, yeah, I definitely think it sparked my, like, desire to not just play in the W, but play for Team USA for sure.

[Birdie]

So the next year, you guys get Jackie. So now you're like, back to back to back number one picks. I asked Derica the Same question. Her answer made me laugh. Did you guys. At that point, are you starting to feel any pressure? Are you like, whoa, we've back to back to back. Number one picks, probably the first team ever likely.

[Kelsey Plum]

I didn't feel any pressure. Okay. No, I just.

[Birdie]

Fine thing. She's like, nah, nah.

[Kelsey Plum]

I mean, like, at this point, the pressure's on Asia and Jackie now. Yeah, yeah.

[Birdie]

But I mean, as a team. As a team, are you like, oh, man. Oh, no.

[Kelsey Plum]

Birdie. We were so young, okay. And like, Bill was like, trying to figure out where to put people, you know? Cause you're still, like, working with other roster, kind of bringing your own people in. Yeah. No, no, no pressure. We did make the playoffs, but I think we were, like, low seed. It was like, maybe six or seven. Yeah.

[Birdie]

I don't remember the seed, but I do remember who he played, and I do remember Derica shot.

[Kelsey Plum]

Derica is the luckiest human being I've ever met in my life. This was before this shot. Okay? So, like. Like, she's just someone that just, like, it just happens for her. And I, like, I remember in the game, she steals the ball, and if you look back at the clip, you can watch like 10 times and see all the different reactions. There's three people in the front court she could have passed to. There's also, like, 10 seconds on the clock. And she just launched it. Also stepped out of bounds, which they were. She made it. Everyone was like, literally after the game, we got into the locker room, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, what. What just happened? What are you doing?

[Birdie]

But also, great job.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. I think Bill was like, good job, Derica. Like, never gave her a compliment all year until then.

[Birdie]

You caused that turnover. You were chasing Sloot around.

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, my gosh.

[Birdie]

Like, you do. But. Yeah, but. But back to the, like, the 2019 season in general, you had like a. You had more of a year that was similar to your rookie year. Like, regular season, but the playoffs, you go on a tear. You average 15.2 points, 7.8 assists. It was five games. You played Chicago and like, the. You had the single eliminations. That was the Chicago game we're talking about. And then you ended up getting swept by D.C. so I was like, your guys as that core group, probably like your first taste of playoffs. First taste of. But you really perform. And it's funny. Cause my memory of this is, we do a USA Basketball. Who knows where the hell we are? We're somewhere remote. Like, we're somewhere. And what do we do on those Trips. We sit in the lobby, we order 18 coffees. Sometimes other things later at night, we're just drinking coffee till we die and yakking. And I remember, it's just so funny actually, like, thinking of you then having this conversation now, like, here you were like, belief. Just, like, maybe a little bit of delusion as we're talking about. Just like, all the things we're talking about were there that day. And you were like, I think it was just me, you, and D. And you were like, no, guys. You're basically telling us, like, not in these words, but this is the gist, right? Like, no, I'm a starter. No, like, did you see me play in the playoffs? Like, this is what this is, and this is what this is going to be. And we were just, like, listening, and we even, like, pulled up. Cause we were like, all right, let.

[Kelsey Plum]

Me look at this.

[Birdie]

Let me pull up your stats. And I remember being like, oh, shit, she's gonna ball out in the playoffs. But, like, even in that moment, like, this is how you were talking about yourself. It felt like. I don't know, it just felt like you were, like, ready for so much more. And I imagine that can be a tough position when you know your value, but, like, nobody else is either seeing it or acknowledging it yet did it. Like, how does that feel?

[Kelsey Plum]

It's tough. Cause at times, you get home and you're like, I'm crazy. You know, like, the delusion is delusion. Yeah. Like, I'm crazy. Like, this is crazy. And I think that you just have to make a decision, like, either I'm gonna double down on this, or, like, either I'm gonna do it or I'm not. And so I just was like, no, like, I know I can do this. I know I can do this. I know I'm this good. I know I can impact this. So, yeah, I do actually remember that, because you guys were like. And it's crazy. Like, think about it. These are, like, your idols. Like, people that you've, like, you know, like, looked up to, like, watch, admire. And they're like. We're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sipping that. I'm like, yeah, you know, plummy. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

[Birdie]

You know her game now, huh?

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, exactly.

[Birdie]

I think, if memory serves, this is right around the time or somewhere shortly after that, you hire Susan. Susan Borchardt. So how did Susan impact her career?

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, I mean, I think it starts that workout that I showed up with you. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Put those cuffs on.

[Kelsey Plum]

It was over. My God. No, it was over in the Warmup. I held it together facially, but I inside died. If anyone doesn't know Susan's warmups are. If you're not someone that actively does that type of thing, people think it's like, a lift. Yeah. They think it's the workout. And that's actually people's reaction at dog class now when we do it. Yeah. I love that. So cute. But it's like, I just remember I showed up to the gym with you. We did the primer, got on court.

[Birdie]

Got some bands going.

[Kelsey Plum]

Got some bands. And after we conditioned. Yeah.

[Birdie]

And then I think we did Cuffs.

[Kelsey Plum]

And then we did Cuffs. And then you went to lift up her body. And at that point, I couldn't even walk down to the hallway to do it. I went to the car, and that's when I had a moment, like, come to Jesus moment. Like, what am I doing? You know? And, like, you don't know what you don't know, right? Yeah. So that definitely sparked me. I mean, Susan definitely has changed my career. Yeah.

[Birdie]

To work with Susan is to be fit as fuck.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

Like, this is just, like, what it is. Can you just describe? Because I have a take on it, which is just at some point, it's just about who got tired and who didn't. And so I'm just curious, like, what confidence does that give you? Like, to me, Susan equals confidence because of that. And so, like, when did. Maybe the better question is, like, when did you start to feel the type of shape you were in and how that was impacting your play?

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, remember, I started working with Susan, and then I tore my Achilles. Yeah. So, like, I was actually a blessing, though. Cause I got to do the whole rehab process with her. And then I had, like, time because everyone was in the bubble. So a lot of people work with Susan maybe a couple months, and they start the season. I had, like, a full year run. Oh, yeah. So that's different. That really helped me. Yeah. I think you're 100% right. I think it's the mental aspect more than the physical. Obviously, the physical is a benefit of everything, but if you step onto the court and, you know, like, I'm faster, stronger, in better shape, and I've endured way more hell than you have. So, like, let's go to war. Yeah. That's kind of like. You know. And it's actually funny then when you go up against someone that is a Susan athlete, because then you're like. It's like, this is a different. You know what I mean?

[Birdie]

They're not gonna get tired that's so true.

[Kelsey Plum]

You never have to beat them differently.

[Birdie]

That's so true. Yo, low key. I think one of my favorite things is that I got to work with Susan, that the two of us, like, we were like, only each other's. She worked with Tanisha Wright when T was on the storm. We were both on the storm together. So T is kind of like the outbreak monkey. Like, T kind of like started this, but then I. I think, was, like, the first one to, like, officially hire her, you know, like, officially work with her 24, 7, 365. And so I'm so proud of, like, just how her business has grown, proud of her love seeing all the athletes that work with her. But there was a point where I.

[Kelsey Plum]

Was like, oh, I bet all these motherfuckers are not gonna be doing what I'm doing.

[Birdie]

I gave away the secret sauce, and now I gotta play against them.

[Kelsey Plum]

This is some bullshit.

[Birdie]

So I know exactly, exactly what you mean. So what is it? A lot of people talk about your work ethic. This is something we're talking about. A lot of people talk about your work ethic. Are you proud of that, or do you view that as, like, that's all you're talking about?

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, Honestly, Birdie, I'm kind of like. I don't want to say it's like, a backhanded compliment, but at this point, I feel like we got to, like, just change the conversation. I think in the beginning, it was, like, a little bit more of Rocky Balboa, kind of what we talked about. Yeah. But now, like, sure, yeah, I work hard. A lot of professional athletes do. Like, it's our job, you know? Like, I shouldn't get. A coach said this the other day. I thought it was interesting. Fish don't get an award for swimming. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

[Birdie]

It's just, like, you have to do it.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. It is what it is.

[Birdie]

Like, you have to do a meaning because it's part of it.

[Kelsey Plum]

It's a part of it. And, like, if you're going to do anything, you want to do it at a really high level. But, yeah, at this point, I'd like, definitely. That is. Okay. Like, let's move on.

[Birdie]

So what do you think the best part of your game is?

[Kelsey Plum]

Honestly? My adaptability. Okay. I think that you could put me in any situation, you could put me with any coach, you could put me with any players, and I'm not gonna even figure out how to make it work. I'm gonna thrive. And to be honest, like, I think that's what makes me, like, unique ability. I think that's what makes me different than other players.

[Birdie]

Okay. You already brought up your Achilles, so I'm gonna get into that a little bit.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

I mean, so many people are tearing their Achilles now.

[Kelsey Plum]

Ugh. I know.

[Birdie]

Yeah. It's awful. So did it feel like a death sentence the way that. I think a lot of people talk about it.

[Kelsey Plum]

Honestly, too, I would love to know why this is happening at the rate it is. Like, ACL's Achilles.

[Birdie]

Right.

[Kelsey Plum]

Whole nother conversation. No, because it was, like, the first time that, like, oh, I have no expectations. Yeah.

[Birdie]

I read somewhere that you said there was almost like a sigh of relief.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

And that really resonated because I've been in that position before, too.

[Kelsey Plum]

We're, like, with your knee, I don't.

[Birdie]

I'm, like, trying to remember what exact. You play long enough, it's hard to keep it together.

[Kelsey Plum]

God bless you.

[Birdie]

There's just. There's definitely. There's just definitely been points where like, oh, my God, this happened, and I now just. This is the only thing I have to focus on.

[Kelsey Plum]

Right.

[Birdie]

Everything else does go away, and there it can be a little bit of relief. So that really. That really hit. And I feel like you also talked about. You started. I feel like realizing some things about yourself, mental health wise, identity wise. Like, this is all happening in this 2020 season. So when you look back on that, I'm going to make an interesting little connection here. When you look back on that, are you watching the aces in the finals lose, and you're, like, mad you're not there, or are you, like, man, thank God this year happened.

[Kelsey Plum]

Second one. Second one. I mean, you guys were. Of course. I watched every game. I mean, you guys were better than us anyways. Yeah.

[Birdie]

I mean, I think. I think we were. Obviously. Of course I'm gonna say that, but I also know. And I said this to Derek. I also know, like, if Derek is healthy. And then I'd add on, if you're there, like, it's a different thing.

[Kelsey Plum]

Mm.

[Birdie]

So it's like, that. That exists, and you don't always. You never know when you're gonna get to the finals.

[Kelsey Plum]

So. True. Oh, my gosh.

[Birdie]

Okay. So you're going through the Achilles rehab. How long till you, like, feel like yourself again?

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, it was a kind of unique situation because. Because of. It was Covid. That was another thing of, like, obviously, there's a lot going on, but, like, if you're gonna get hurt, it's actually not a time to do it the bubble season, I didn't feel. I mean, like, my teammates would call me every day and be like, yeah. So I think that. And then also the Olympics got put a year back. And so I remember Carol calling me and saying, like, hey, we have our first camp post Covid this date. If you're gonna. And this is not a pressure thing. It's like, if you're gonna, like, go for five on five or three on three, like, we're gonna start to need to see you. Cause we haven't seen you. So honestly, it was great. Cause I had like a date on the calendar. I was like, okay, just gotta be ready. By this date.

[Birdie]

Do you feel like it was harder physically or mentally?

[Kelsey Plum]

Definitely physically. Physically, the mental part, I think it was just like, oh, I'm coming back from an Achilles. No one seen me play in a year. And I've gone to work with Susan for a year, so no one even sees what I look like. You know, I looked like a doughboy the last time they saw me. Now look at me. Yeah, exactly. Like, what's going on from here? And you know when you're hurt and you are just grateful to be back, don't even care, like, what happens, you're just like running up and down. Yeah, that was me.

[Birdie]

Gave you new life.

[Kelsey Plum]

New life. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Do you think three on three and like, trying to get to the Tokyo team? For those that don't know the qualifying process, like, you have to participate to get. To get points to even be eligible for it. So you're having to do that like you just mentioned. So you have to do that regardless of what happens. Do you think three on three helped you.

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, another springboard of your life.

[Birdie]

I know. Talk about that.

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, I think that I. Pretty early on is like, okay, it's a long shot for me to make fives. Threes though, like, this could be really fun and good for me as, like, because a three is just a different game. You're built for it, like, everything, physicality.

[Birdie]

You have to be versatile.

[Kelsey Plum]

You have to be on your sport.

[Birdie]

To be able to guard a lot of things in multiple ways.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. So when I started playing it, I definitely just try to dive in headfirst. And I really helped my 5 on 5 game, like a ton. Yeah. Just like, I think pre three on three, post three on three, I'm two different players. Yeah.

[Birdie]

I mean, and it showed because that summer, which is 20, 21 now, because the Olympics get pushed you, you're still coming off the bench, but you're averaging career Highs now, like again, really now you're up to like almost 15 points, like three and a half assists, two and a half rebounds. But more than anything, there was like a big jump in your field goal percentage.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

So you're like getting more efficient now. You're like starting to, you know, we won't talk about it. You win six players. You win six players or six man.

[Kelsey Plum]

Whatever the hell they call it.

[Birdie]

I know you have. I know you have gripes with that, so we won't go down that road. But what do you think this year? What are you now figuring out? Like, I think the field goal percentage really says a lot. It's like, what do you think you're figuring out?

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, it was funny because when I came in that year, Bill sat me down and was like, hey, listen, you are a starter. You're good enough to start. I think it's best served for you on the bench. Cause the way Bill would submit, he would put starters, go first like six, seven minutes and he would be like, kelsey, listen, we're going to Asia, we're going to Liz, we're going to Jackie. So like, you're not going to be able to get any touches. Like, you're not going to be a main focus. I sub you in with the second group. Go, Rock. And so obviously at first I'm like, you didn't even give me a chance, you know. But then after I saw the vision long term of like and Bill's teams that always won, he had a great bench and he was like, very adamant about it. And I saw the impact throughout the season of how important your bench is. That also gave me a ton of perspective moving forward. I'm like, okay. Coming off the bench is different. You have to bring energy instantly. You have to be able to like, on a dime, someone goes down, come in. Like, there's different levels of skill set that you have to learn and build. And that was like, really good for me. And that helped me a ton with Team USA later down the line. So. So I think that honestly that experience built a ton of confidence. While I see the Filco percentage go.

[Birdie]

Up a ton, which is more challenging coming off the bench and having to be essentially a microwave or being a starter, depends.

[Kelsey Plum]

What type of starter are you like the go to? Sure. Well, I just say that. Cause like, when you're on the top of the scouting report, you know you're going to have to.

[Birdie]

Okay.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. Okay. I would say that's. That's a lot harder. Okay. Is your prep different?

[Birdie]

You've Been in both roles.

[Kelsey Plum]

Is your prep different? Yeah, I think mentally. Mentally just being a lot more patient. I've had to learn especially throughout this season, I've even grown just being more patient, knowing that it's going to come, but might not be in the first, you know, might not be in the second. But when you come off the bench, you're usually playing also too against their second unit. So it's different.

[Birdie]

Yeah, it is a lot different. It is a lot different. You brought up Liz. Liz Cambay, she joins the team. So now I'm going to ask again. You've got three back to back number one picks. You've got Derickah Hamby, you've got Liz Cambridge is on the team. Chelsea Gray has joined the team. Are you feeling any pressure.

[Kelsey Plum]

At that point? It was like, okay, we're definitely talented enough to win. Okay. And that Phoenix series still makes me sick to this day. That's tough because people talk about the three peat that didn't happen and how like, oh, we lost in New York. In my opinion, the three should have happened because we had Chicago. Like that matchup was just not good for them. Yeah, Phoenix got in our way. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Apologies for that because they. Phoenix beat us to go to the semi.

[Kelsey Plum]

I was gonna say, I don't think.

[Birdie]

In a closed game.

[Kelsey Plum]

Didn't they? You guys were supposed to win, right? You guys were the higher seed.

[Birdie]

Yeah. Stewie got hurt.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yes.

[Birdie]

So we didn't have Stewie.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yes.

[Birdie]

So that was. But we still a close game. And then, you know, Phoenix went on the runs that Phoenix goes on in the playoffs. And it is true because you guys just met. You met the team that had the one player that had size that could like. Cause you guys were so big. First of all, your guard play was legit. But then you were like twin towers down there with Liz and with Asia and they had bg which was like her and Liz kind of cancel each.

[Kelsey Plum]

Other out a little bit. Yeah.

[Birdie]

And so that was like the one matchup. But I really believe that and I've said this on this pod multiple times.

[Kelsey Plum]

Like you.

[Birdie]

You really can't go on epic runs without some sort of like epic failure. You kind of need, especially as a team. I really, I'm like hard pressed to find the team that won the whole thing and didn't have something happen either the year before or the year before that where it was like motivating. And I would imagine you're heading into 2022 now. You basically have the same team. Liz is no longer there, but Becky Hammond joins. And now it's like, what is. How motivated are you guys going into this year?

[Kelsey Plum]

My gosh, I think we started that year 14 and 0, something like that. I mean, everyone was lit on fire.

[Birdie]

Yeah.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

Well, you, especially you. Literally, career highs again. This is now, like, the third or fourth time you've done that in your career. You're already trending this way. So there is, like, a conversation just about, like, you as a player trending this way. But I am curious, like, Becky's impact, whether it's on you on the team in that year.

[Kelsey Plum]

Not that I needed more motivation, but Becky called me maybe, like, a month before camp and was like, hey, I just want to let you know, you know, I'm taking over the team. Watching a ton of film, we were pretty much bringing everyone back, minus Liz. She was just like, I think you're gonna come off the bench again. And I literally, like, I was with Noah, actually. We were working out in la, and I like, set the phone down and, like, I almost, like, lost it. And I literally was like, how? You haven't had one practice with me. You haven't had one game with me. How can you say that? She's like, nothing's in stone. I just want to prepare you mentally. And I said, I just want to let you know I'm the best guard you have, and I will win that spot, so keep an open fucking mind. What'd she say? She was like, yeah, okay. And then the first day in camp, Bertie, I don't think I've ever played as hard as I did that day. There was steam coming out of my ears, and I just. I dominated. And before I walked off the court, I give her a lot of credit. She walked over. She goes, I get it. It's your spot. The spot's yours. Thank you. Thank you.

[Birdie]

Looking back, we've now hit, like, a couple points in your career where you're like, okay, you don't believe in me. Here we go. And I don't think it was necessarily that Becky didn't believe. It was more just, like, kind of what she saw, for sure, like, for the better of the team. So it's. I don't want to make it that dramatic, but, yeah. Is it frustrating to look back and be like, nobody? Like, why aren't these people seeing it?

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. I mean, to be fair, I had a great year off the bench, so, like, why would you change that? Right? And, like, Raquana is a great player and also fits really well with them. You know, when talking about the starting unit. Yeah, I think. I think if anything. Yeah. And like, we go back to the initial question that you had about getting handed the keys, being a top player. And like, people ask like, oh, how do you play so hard? And like, like, you guys, every turn I've had to basically, like, win whoever over. Teammates, coaches. And like, I'm grateful for it because there is a level of, like, you know, it's kind of like you, like, you fight to be in the room and like, all right, now I'm gonna be very present. Cause I worked really hard to get here. So I think as hard as it's been, it's definitely been worth it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Birdie]

No, it's definitely gotta be, like, fulfilling.

[Kelsey Plum]

In a different way. I sleep well at night. Yeah, that's good. That always helps.

[Birdie]

What did it mean to win in 2022? You guys finally, finally meaning you have this group. You, you know, you didn't do it the year before and now you're doing it. So, like, what did that mean to win the championship?

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, my gosh. This is so cool.

[Birdie]

Is that why you had the speaker and the bottle and the goggles and the.

[Kelsey Plum]

So classic WNBA gave us. I thought it was champagne. And like, you know, like, you play, you haven't eaten in five hours. Like, oh, I know. Say less.

[Birdie]

Straight to your brain.

[Kelsey Plum]

I'm drinking and I'm like, gluten free. So I'm like drinking this and I'm like, wow, I'm not feeling this. Why am I not feeling it? I'm like four or five in and I'm like, it's beer. I'm like farting. Like, this is like, I'm sorry.

[Birdie]

You didn't taste it.

[Kelsey Plum]

I just was like, just like guzzling. It's like an aura. Like. And then I was. Honestly, I took the boombox with me because everyone went to like, cut down nets or press conference. And like, I think I was in the bathroom. And so I just took the speaker with me because I was like, I don't know where anyone is. Come walking around. Mohegan smells covering your farts. Yeah, exactly. Just crop dusting. Everyone. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Gluten free and beer is not a good mix.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, that's a tough mix. But it was awesome. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Did that give you any kind of like, validation?

[Kelsey Plum]

I mean, it definitely the first thing you think of is like, I want to do this again. This is really cool. I want to do this again. And the group we had, like, everyone's coming back. Yeah. You know, why not? Why can't we do this again? Yeah.

[Birdie]

I mean, spoiler alert. You do it again. How hard is it to go back to back?

[Kelsey Plum]

Way harder. Yeah, way harder. I've never done it. Well, I'm just saying. You've tried to do it.

[Birdie]

No, no. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Kelsey Plum]

It's way harder than the last season. And why do you think that is?

[Birdie]

Could you, like, I have, like, a thought around it, and I'm just curious, like, if you had to explain that to people.

[Kelsey Plum]

Candace says something to me one time and I'm like, oh, wow, that makes so much sense. She's like, you win and everyone. Ego goes up a little bit. And then in the off season, everyone goes back. It's like, oh, I'm gonna. I'm gonna average more points. I'm gonna average more assists. I'm gonna be better. I'm gonna work on these things. And you come back and it's like, no, no, you're not. You're probably gonna do the exact same thing you did. And that's, like, really hard because you feel like I'm better. I should. I also think, too, you get everyone's best shot. Yeah, that's everyone's best shot. And that's just so different than, you know, and it is, too, being, like, you know, on the Aces and even being on la, just, like, seeing the difference of people's shots, if that makes sense. Yeah. I'm like, ah, I get. So that's why the three was like, oh, my gosh. Sorry.

[Birdie]

I think what I would add to that is when you're trying to do it after you've done it and you're trying to do it again, I think there's a tendency to forget how hard.

[Kelsey Plum]

It was the first time. Yeah.

[Birdie]

No, no, no. When you're doing it, when you're trying to go back to back, you think back, you're like, well, last year, last year when we played Dallas on the road, we.

[Kelsey Plum]

We beat him by 20.

[Birdie]

And this year, it's a close game.

[Kelsey Plum]

Like, what?

[Birdie]

You know, like, there's just this tendency to, like, think it went like, yeah, we won that. And the reality is that's never the reality.

[Kelsey Plum]

That's so true.

[Birdie]

So I think you, like, get psyched out a little bit, too. I would say that you, Jackie and Chelsea are, if not the best backcourt of all time. Like, definitely one of the. The other backcourt I put up and I talked about this with Jackie. The other one I put in there is, like, Simone, Lindsay, and Maya. You could also add, if you Want to call Penny Taylor a 3D Cappy. She played the 4, though. But D Cappy and Penny were also a problem. Does that like have significance to you that you were a part of one of the best backcourts of all time?

[Kelsey Plum]

That is pretty crazy when you say that. I never really thought about that. I mean, there were definitely times on the court feeling like all connected and in sync, especially with the three of us, of like, there's just a level of like we're like perfect matches for each other. Yeah.

[Birdie]

So what does. What did make that backpack court special?

[Kelsey Plum]

I think we all do different things really well. And then I think also there's a level of Jackie and Chels are super competitive. And so I think when you have three people that are ultra competitive that are like willing to sacrifice and adapt throughout games. Because the thing that I learned playing on a great team is every time you play someone, the scout is different. So maybe we play Dallas and they're going to try to take away Jackie and Asia. So Chelsea and I got to step up, right? Or like, maybe, you know, you play Minnesota and they're gonna come after me and Chelsea because they think, you know, we're gonna whatever. So I think just having people that always rise to the level of occasion makes you rise to the level of occasion. And that was like extremely unique in terms of like our chemistry.

[Birdie]

So 2024 ends up being like a harder year. You guys do have a lot of injuries, so that's always just gonna. Honestly, I think the under told story of almost every WNBA champion is there's a little bit of luck in the health department. Like every WNBA champion probably got lucky in that nobody had any like major significant injuries. No starters were out. Sometimes you miss time. But like generally speaking they're healthy because the ones that aren't healthy, it's just harder. And you guys did have a rough go. So that season ends. Tell me like what happened that gets you to the point where you want to be traded?

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, I think there's a couple components. I think that, you know, every year you come back and you're like playing on a great team, you're willing to sacrifice, do whatever it takes. But I think there's a point where you start to feel like underappreciated. That's like I'm not special in that. That's everyone. Right. And you sacrifice. And I think after the 2024 season, I felt like a couple things. Well, obviously there's personal and professional. Personal. All the my personal stuff off the court happened. Being Divorced and then, like, that hitting me at a left field. So I had to deal with that in the season, which, like, even to this day, I would say I look back now, and one of my most proudest things that I just, like, played. Like, I showed up and played, and I, like, had the best attitude I could, because that was awful. Just, like, straight up awful. To go through experience and then, like, you're dealing with it in lifetime, and you're dealing with it, like, publicly. Publicly, yeah. And I think. And I give the credit a ton to the Aces, and I'm super grateful because they were not only super supportive, they were like a lockbox. And there were a lot of things that people could have, like, leaked about the situation that they didn't. And I. Becky, Tyler, Natalie, like, they were just a safe space, and I just, like, my teammates just really respected that. And so anyways, you have that element, and then you also have the basketball element of feeling, like, okay, it's not about, like, shots or points or anything like that. It's just more feeling, okay, I'm gonna take less money. I want to be here, but, like, I have to take less again. And then, like, okay, yeah, I'll set cross screens and back screens for Asia all day. Like, no problem. But then you start to feel like, okay, am I becoming the fourth option? You know, and, like, we're not winning. So that it also feels like, you know, frustrating. Like, I think there's egos involved, and again, it's not just me. That's what happens when you play on a team with a ton of people that are budding stars. Right. You're trying to figure out how to make it work. And I kind of just felt like I needed a fresh start. I needed a fresh start personally. I needed a fresh start professionally. And I felt like my growth was kind of capped in Vegas. Like, the player. I could finish Vegas, my career in Vegas, and probably could be an All Star a couple more times, you know, try to go back with championships, but, like, can I ever reach the capacity on the player that I know I can be? And I go. You go back to. The confidence is like, I know I have a lot more in the tank, and I know I can lead. And, like, I just. That's not. The opportunity is not here. Yeah. Fair.

[Birdie]

I mean, you talk about. You guys weren't. It wasn't budding stars. You had four Olympians. Like, even in the course of this. In the course of this year, where, you know, it sounds like. Not sounds like it was a very tough Year for you. You also go to the Olympics.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

Oh, trust me, like all four of.

[Kelsey Plum]

You go to the Olympics, you know.

[Birdie]

So how does the Olympics and that experience. Because it was a really hard final game.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

And that's. There's a ton of pressure. So how does, like, where does the Olympics fit? Just like in all of that.

[Kelsey Plum]

That's not the month of Olympic break is obviously not a break. And like you said, the pressure to win in Paris against France and that situation was really tough. Then you go back right into the season. I mean, some people, we actually got like two or three days. Some people had to play like the next day. And it would have been different if it was one or two of us. It was four of us. And yeah, you're right. I think it just weighed. I think that plus, like you said, it's hard to go back to. Back to go three in a row. Oh, my gosh. Every game is a Super Bowl. Yeah. It's this crazy rollout. It's sold out. Everyone's like, so excited to be like, see the Aces. And the expectations are just like way over the top. If a game is close within, like. But it's a wnba, of course it's gonna be close. If the game is close, it's like, what's wrong with the Aces? You know? And yeah, it was just. It was od. Yeah.

[Birdie]

And then you meet the Liberty, who.

[Kelsey Plum]

Were better than us, like all year.

[Birdie]

But they're also, you know, they're like scorched earth in that moment. Because they've lost you the year before for sure.

[Kelsey Plum]

In a.

[Birdie]

In a. I mean, what was it? Game four? You guys have injuries, you find a way to win when like from a Liberty, like, standpoint perspective, it's like we tricked away this game at home to force a game five. So they're like motivated. Although I am curious, like, do you ever look back at that rivalry in those couple years and realize like the impact you had on the wnba, like business?

[Kelsey Plum]

Yes.

[Birdie]

Like, how do you feel about that?

[Kelsey Plum]

It was. I thought it was. And I don't want to take away from other finals, but it felt super. Outside of like just the W space, it felt like a sports. And the back to back, I think also brought a level of respect from just like people in general.

[Birdie]

Yeah, it was like high level basketball too.

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, that was some of the best basketball I've ever played.

[Birdie]

Yeah, it was just like super, super high level both of those years. Support for this show comes from Google Pixel. When it comes to upgrading your smartphone, you could settle for the same old same old. Or you could reach for the extraordinary and try a Google Pixel 9 Pro. Pixel 9 Pro comes with Gemini, your built in AI assistant that helps you supercharge your ideas. And now with Gemini Live you can have an actual conversation with Gemini. So the next time you want travel Itinerary Suggestions need help phrasing a message? Or you just want to know when the next game is on? You can ask Gemini. It also features Pixel's best camera yet. You know those moments where you want to take a group photo but you can't decide who'll be the photographer? Well, with their Add Me feature you no longer need to worry about that. It's a camera built to capture everyone in beautiful resolution, including the person taking the photo. Meet Pixel 9 Pro with a stunning new design, the the advanced AI power of Gemini and their best camera yet. Now we're talking. You can learn more about the new Google Pixel 9 with Gemini Live on the Google Store. Sequences shortened Gemini Live available for ages 18, compatible with certain features and with certain accounts. Results for illustrative purposes and may vary. Check responses for accuracy. Support for Bird's Eye View comes from Etsy as these ladies dominate the game on court, the stars Cameron Brink, Skylar Diggins, Neko Guamuke and Briana Stewart are dominating off the court as well and teaming up with Etsy to show how their style travels. With an exclusive collection from Etsy, these athletes showcase their coveted personal style with the help of Etsy sellers. By blending self expression with craftsmanship, this collaboration is more than a drop, it's a celebration of the shared spirit of grit, originality and heart that drives both athletes and makers to create something truly special. The four piece Icon collection includes a two piece clothing set by Skylar Diggins and Etsy seller Mary Lo of by Marilo Metal statement earrings by Neko Gumuke and Etsy seller Deja Sparks of Deja Sparks Jewelry, a New York City inspired charm necklace by Briana Stewart and Etsy seller Hadley Staub of From Hadley and Press On Nails by Cameron Brink and Etsy seller Hayley Tripp of Bling It On Nails. Plus, each athlete has also curated a selection of more style finds on Etsy, offering a deeper look into their off court aesthetics and creative inspirations. Shop the full collection and curated edits [e-mail] the Icon Collection this episode is.

[Kelsey Plum]

Brought to you by Lifelock. When you visit the doctor, you probably hand over your insurance, your ID and contact details. It's just one of the many places that has your personal info and if any of them accidentally expose it, you could be at risk for identity theft. LifeLock monitors millions of data points a second. If you become a victim, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply.

[Birdie]

Okay, so before we get to, like, the sparks and why you chose them, and, like, we're here now, I feel like so much is said about the WNBA right now. It's like the magnifying glass, the microscope, like, whatever you want to call it. It's crazy. Given your experiences, just, like, throughout your career, especially, like, your rookie year, talking about mental health and what you've been through, how do you navigate this new attention? I feel like there's basically. How do you balance the media narrative, maybe other players narratives, with your own foundation of what you know and what you know of yourself as a player? How are you, like, juggling that or balancing that?

[Kelsey Plum]

I mean, to be honest, like, I feel like I've always kind of been who I am in terms of the media. Like, I just. I speak from the heart and I, you know, last week was like, I'm getting burned out on Twitter and I don't even know why.

[Birdie]

I know. Do you want to just, like, clear the air on this?

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, no, no. I was just saying more in general. Like, that comment five years ago wouldn't have been a thing.

[Birdie]

There wasn't the coverage, obviously.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, of course.

[Birdie]

But I hear your point. Even if there was, it would have been covered. It's just the noise and the chatter wouldn't have come with it.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, and when we were talking about the narrative, though, just in general, to the casual fan of, like, new people coming in, there's a lot of misinformation and uneducated, which is like, honestly, I welcome everyone and, like, hopefully, like, they learn along the way and they pick up some things that they like. But it's definitely a balance act. I mean, I think I've been kind of surprised because I'm, like, even, like, listening or hearing things, and I don't pay that much attention to it. Like, I don't have it on my phone. It's not something that I actively look at. It is hard, though, to sometimes bite your tongue, like, what are we doing?

[Birdie]

What are we.

[Kelsey Plum]

You know, So I think. I think it's. It's a great time because it's only bringing more attention, but at the same time, it is hard as a player not to. I know you didn't ask us. Even the parlays, like, you took it to the parlays. Like, what is happening?

[Birdie]

What do you mean, though? Are people saying stuff?

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, my gosh. Birdie. It happens every game now.

[Birdie]

Really?

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, my gosh. You don't hit the over. Yeah. Getting burned. That's crazy. But it's just, like. It's a new world we're in. That's. I guess what I'm saying is, like, never thought that you'd be dealing with it, and now it's just a new reality.

[Birdie]

Do you want to talk about the Team Clark comment and all that?

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, I made a bad joke. Yeah, I made a really bad joke. Tough one.

[Birdie]

Let me, like. Let me, like, set it up.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, go ahead. So.

[Birdie]

So basically. Okay, so what I'm finding is, like. And you just touched on a little bit, like, players have personalities.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

Like, they're not. It's not always serious all the time. And. And sadly, like, a sarcastic comment or something that's trying to. You know, trying to tell a joke. Like, people can run with it. And there's, like, another aspect when it's like, you never even get a chance to explain it. It's like, what are you gonna do? And I know recently, for you at the All Star Game, after you took a couple, you know, crown apples to the head, which, by the way, crown apple shots. Underrated shot.

[Kelsey Plum]

For sure.

[Birdie]

I will take that to the graveset.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

Underrated shot.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

It was, like, a positive, fun All Star Game, and you were trying to just make a joke, and it just got twisted.

[Kelsey Plum]

And I should have, like, hindsight 20 20, because of the shirts, because of the fans. Like, I should have known. It was a way more serious moment than a typical All Star Game. Yeah. Because I went into that press conference very, like, happy, go, lucky we won, you know, and then had a great weekend. Like, my family's here. It was just a great time. And so the questions came in, and it was like, cba, this, this, this, this. And I almost, honestly, Birdie was like, hey, like, Team Clark, like, they didn't make it to the meeting either. You know, like, just, like, making a joke, trying to make the room lighter.

[Birdie]

Cause they were hungover. That was the joke.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yes. Yeah. Even though they called. Yeah, sorry. I was making a joke that they were hungover. Even though our team nickname was Hungover. Yes. Yes. So I was like, at least we made it. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, we're all on the same page. We all wore shirts. Like, we're all unified.

[Birdie]

And I think, if anything, I was.

[Kelsey Plum]

Just more discouraged because I felt like it Took away from the moment of what we were trying to do. So, yeah, I mean, it's definitely. You don't even get to respond. And if you do, you seem defensive. That's why I didn't even say anything. I was like, all right.

[Birdie]

No. So that's the thing. You'd seem defensive, and then it just gets worse.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. So you just have to let it go. Yeah. Thick skin.

[Birdie]

But when it comes. Okay, so the other part of, like, the magnifying glass is just like, you know, people talk about different players at different times. Like, how do you feel the narrative about you? Just, like, as a player, do you feel underrated? Do you feel like people see you and value you?

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, I think that, like, if you were to put up, like a. You ever. I forget what that game is where, like, you cover it and you just read somebody's, like, stats or impact or whatever. And then it's a game, not like a game. But, like.

[Birdie]

Yeah, you just, like, take the names off.

[Kelsey Plum]

Read the names. Take the names off. Yeah, read the year, read the whatever and then judge. I think that people would be like, oh. Which is okay, you know? And like, again, talk about thick skin. It's tough because you, you know, you do have narratives about certain players, guards. And like, I think a lot of times I get hit for lack of efficiency. It's like, super fair, I think. I think players. You have to hold players to a high standard. But I also, like, we don't hold players to play on both ends, and we don't hold players to. Certain players to. Some people can be inefficient, some people can be. It's okay for some, it's not okay for others. Where is that line? It's tough as a player, as a competitor. It's like, you should hold everyone to the same. But, I mean, I remember when we played against you guys in 22.

[Birdie]

I don't wanna talk about it.

[Kelsey Plum]

But, yeah, no, I wasn't trying to bring it up like that. I was very inefficient in the series. And it was a big. It was a big thing on ESPN about, like, how poorly I was shooting from three and all the things.

[Birdie]

Well, it's probably cause I guarded you.

[Kelsey Plum]

That's exactly why. Exactly why. Which, by the way, I have a confession. I didn't tell you. You fouled me. Of course. Every play. Thank you. All right. You know, they sat me down before the series. Oh, my God, I'm nervous. And they were like, listen, we know you love Birdie. We know you guys are Friends. If. If you want to win, that's the head of the snake. You need to be prepared to, like, not have a friendship post. Seriously. And I was like, okay, you came out the next game and had. Tennis is zero turnovers.

[Birdie]

Like, well, I guess we're best friends still.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. I was like, oh, I obviously did not make an impact. And then I just. I just had to make a decision. And I was like, yeah, we got.

[Birdie]

Into it that series a little bit.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, we did. Not trippy. I don't think you talked to me for like, a year.

[Birdie]

No, a year.

[Kelsey Plum]

It was a while.

[Birdie]

I really, like, see you for a year.

[Kelsey Plum]

It was a while. But anyways, I said I got chippy. I remember.

[Birdie]

I remember there was like a plan play. I don't remember exactly. Exactly like, how it happened.

[Kelsey Plum]

I shoved you in the back. I remember exactly what it was.

[Birdie]

Yeah, no, that. Yes, that definitely happened. And I missed the layout because of it. I couldn't believe they didn't call foul. But I remember, like, shortly after that, I was. I was like, out of the game. I was just on the bench like, you know, getting rest or whatever, and you were like, in the corner. And we were just like, who knows what we were saying? Yeah, but it was just like. And the refs being like. And I was like, no, I'm gonna plum for real, or something like that.

[Kelsey Plum]

You know what? It was earlier. I remember this very vividly. Earlier in the season, regular season, I was like, complaining, and you were guarding me, and you were like, stop complaining. And then, because I was talking to the rest.

[Birdie]

Turns around, complains.

[Kelsey Plum]

And in the. In the playoffs, that. That next. Whatever. Yeah, you were talking to the rest. Rightfully so. Because I was just literally dry humping you up the court. It worked. And that's when I looked, and I was like, stop complaining. Yeah. And I was like, this motherfucker.

[Birdie]

Stop pushing me in the back.

[Kelsey Plum]

I don't know. I'd like to know what you think about the narrative type of stuff.

[Birdie]

Which part?

[Kelsey Plum]

Just feeling like double standards. Also feeling like, I don't know, the way they talk about certain people or like, do you think I'm underrated? Do you think that? Do I think you're underrated? You think I'm overrated?

[Birdie]

I think you're. Yeah, I don't think you're overrated in that. I think you're. I think people. You're overlooked.

[Kelsey Plum]

Okay. What's the difference?

[Birdie]

So. Cause, like, I do think people value you now. I think you've proven yourself. I think there are Times where players and their impact is overlooked. So, like, whether it's, you know, the role you played with the Aces. Right. Obviously what you're doing in LA now, like, I think there can be a tendency to overlook something at times. So that's why, like, valued is not necessarily the right word. Like, under overvalued. But it's like, yeah, I definitely think you've been overlooked in your career.

[Kelsey Plum]

For sure.

[Birdie]

For sure. And I think the hard part, in terms of, like, media narratives or just, like, how people rate players, like, when they're talking about them, I do think, like, it's tricky, right? Like, winning, I think always brings more. I actually think it brings more. So as a. As a. Like, you know, I hesitate to call you a role player. I wouldn't call you a role player on the Aces. You know, I just wouldn't. I understand Asia is like, the focal point and you have all this talent, but it's like, I don't think any of you are, like, role players.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

But, like, you all had to play at times, like, different supporting roles. Let's call it that. But when you win even a supporting role, I do think you, like, get talked about different than if you're the best player on a team that's in 10th place.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

I think that's just, like, the reality of sports, and I think people rate those things differently.

[Kelsey Plum]

That's super fair.

[Birdie]

But at the same time, when you're in the supporting role, you're not necessarily gonna get the shine of the tippy top player. So that can be frustrating.

[Kelsey Plum]

And it's like, it was never really though, like, about shine or anything like that. It was just more feeling like I'm the glue here. Call it what it is. Yeah. And like, I felt. I felt at times just that was overlooked. I don't. I don't know else how to say that in a way that's, you know, like, me pushing pace, like. Or me, you know. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Like some more subtle things, like don't show up.

[Kelsey Plum]

All the things that don't show up. Just, like, pushing pace. Or like, giving Jackie breaks, guarding the other best player, like, trying to speed him up. Like, I, like, give myself credit. I said a hell of a screen. Like, I be sending. Like, I'd be trying to get her so open. Yeah. Like, you know, like little things like that. And I just feel like over time, you know, when you do things, it just becomes like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's whatever. And I think I just got to a point where I'm like, no, I Think there's more here and I want to explore it.

[Birdie]

Do you want to talk about being.

[Kelsey Plum]

Voted 16th amongst the guards? You know, it's funny, I was like playing devil's advocate when I saw that. Like that, like, hypothetical list, whatever. And to be fair, I take a lot of stock in winning. Like, I think like numbers are empty numbers when you don't get dubs, especially too if you're not efficient. It was tough because at like, you know, there's like what, two weeks before the voting starts. Like beginning of the season, the voting starts. What is it, like 10 days maybe? And then it closes and then there's like two more weeks and then there's all star. That was a rough 10 day stretch for me. It was rough, like. And I think we weren't winning. I mean, to be fair, we had seven healthy players, two rookies playing extended minutes. I think we had like one or two seven day contracts playing extended minutes. You know, it wasn't a recipe for success. But at the end of the day, yeah, I mean, I definitely was like, oh, that stings.

[Birdie]

So we're talking about all star voting. We're talking about how players participate in that now, for starters. So just to like, for the, for the listeners.

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, yeah, sorry about that.

[Birdie]

Is it because, like the respect of your peers is so important?

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, that matters a lot. I think. And I think that I know I do have respect for my peers. I know that, like we show up at USA Basketball like I'm not the 16th best player or the 16th best guard or whatever. Like, I know that, but I also.

[Birdie]

Know in this boating, I feel like another part of the story is like, I remember when I voted as a player, this is who I voted for.

[Kelsey Plum]

You're voting friends?

[Birdie]

Storm.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, I went storm.

[Birdie]

Storm, Storm, Storm.

[Kelsey Plum]

And what did you say? Your friends? Yes. Yeah, of course.

[Birdie]

Who do I have? Oh, I have two spots left. Who are my friends? Actually at that point, D was my only friend of my last year.

[Kelsey Plum]

So I was like, D. Well, that too. And the. I feel like they, they made it where you can only vote for 4. Have it always been like that?

[Birdie]

I don't remember, to be honest. I don't remember.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, four guards.

[Birdie]

Yeah, you can only vote for four guards.

[Kelsey Plum]

Four, Four guards. And then. And it's funny. Cause like, yeah, I mean. And yeah, like they put Jackie 12th, Caitlin 10th or something. I mean, it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Birdie]

No, it's like one of those things I do think, like, how many players actually voted.

[Kelsey Plum]

True.

[Birdie]

How many of you, you know, the Players vote for their friends, all of them. And then there's also, like, singular moments in a season that's not necessarily how you would actually draft or, like, answer the question. Who would you start a team with?

[Kelsey Plum]

You're talking about recency bias, too.

[Birdie]

Exactly.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

So there's, like, a lot that's happening in that, but I get. I'd be pissed, too, to be honest. Like, it would. You know what? I'd look at it.

[Kelsey Plum]

I'd be like, damn, it would like.

[Birdie]

To sting a little bit.

[Kelsey Plum]

It did sting. It did sting. Yeah, it would.

[Birdie]

I would definitely.

[Kelsey Plum]

It would definitely sting.

[Birdie]

You finally decide to ask for this trade. It's happening. It's happening. You choose la.

[Kelsey Plum]

Why? I think it goes back to what we talked about at the beginning of. Okay. Like, you could play for 20 years. I mean, there's no one that's done that besides you, Dee. Pretty much, right? Yeah.

[Birdie]

I think a couple, but, yeah, not a lot.

[Kelsey Plum]

There's a couple of us. You really get, like, one swing at it and you, too. I just. I just remember thinking in that off season, like, okay, if you, like, really are about it and you, like, really believe that you are as good as you think you are, and you really think you can impact winning the highest level.

[Birdie]

Only one way to find out.

[Kelsey Plum]

There's only one way to find out. And kind of also, too, like, you also have to have a coach that is, like, no, that's. That's exactly who I want. And I, like, that's. I give Lynn a ton of credit. Like, she's like, you're my person. Let's do this. And I was like, wow, okay, so I'm not crazy. At least maybe we're both crazy. And, like, it has nothing to do with being, like, the best player. And like, we talked about this too, right? Like, on a championship team, your threes and fours are really going to be, like, your killers. I think a lot of times your ones and twos cancel each other out in a lot of ways when you're going up against matchups, really. And so, like, I don't have an ego in that. Like, I know that, but I just thought also, too, the talent that they have. Like, at the time when I wasn't on the team, you know, Rekiya Cam, obviously Dee's here. I was like, there's pieces, there's pieces. And also, too, like, Bernie, just to keep it a buck, like, what are you gonna do? Just go join another powerhouse? Why wouldn't I not just stay like, that doesn't. That doesn't make any. That doesn't make any sense. Right? Mm.

[Birdie]

It sounds to me like you. You really just had, like, an itch that you had to scratch. You had to know. You had to know, like, what is that experience? What is it to be, like, the leader? What is it to be like the head of the snake? That kind of a vibe feels like you just, like, wanted to know.

[Kelsey Plum]

You needed to know. Yeah, I just. I would hate to have, like, grandkids sitting on the couch and just being like, I wonder if I would have. You know what I mean? Yeah, that sounded creepy, but. No, no, no, no. I totally get it.

[Birdie]

Yeah. You don't want to regret is basically what you're saying. So even though you requested the trade, like, what did you learn about the business of the WNBA in this experience?

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, my goodness. Well, it had to be a three part. Right. Cause it didn't happen to be. And then also too, like, there were multiple instances where, like, I knew that that's where I wanted, but it wasn't like, oh, you decide on Tuesday. It happens on a Thursday. It was like months. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Yeah, you Jewel.

[Kelsey Plum]

Jewel. And then they got pics. Yeah.

[Birdie]

But you guys were all just like in a holding.

[Kelsey Plum]

Holding pattern because you're. You have to have everyone sign off. And like a lot of times people like, yeah, I'm good. And then they kind of take it back and it was like this whole. Yeah, you had to be super patient, back and forth situation. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Means you wanted it and I think you did. And so I'm curious, like, now that you're kind of like in the role that you saw for yourself in la, like this, you wanting to experience this, Is it what you expected?

[Kelsey Plum]

It was harder.

[Birdie]

It's harder.

[Kelsey Plum]

Fair. It's harder.

[Birdie]

What's harder about it?

[Kelsey Plum]

Leading. It's harder being responsible at a different level. You know, when you're a role player, you know, if you shoot poorly, you don't play well or turn the ball over, get beat on D, it's really like, okay, maybe it affect the game, maybe it didn't. I mean, this is like a whole new level of stakes. And I wouldn't say pressure, more opportunity, but definitely like what you say, what you do, what you don't say, what you don't do drastically affects outcomes on and off the court.

[Birdie]

Do you feel like you're adjusting?

[Kelsey Plum]

Well, I'm pretty proud of the way I've handled it so far. I would say definitely was like, bumpy in the beginning. A lot of too, like, just trying to get like, the whole team together in terms of, like, health. Right. Because that's tough. And we were missing a lot of big pieces. And then you also forget when you've been on a team for so long, training camp isn't new. It's just a refresher.

[Birdie]

Yeah.

[Kelsey Plum]

You're like, oh, yeah, I remember that play. And then now it's like, new system and totally, you know, so it's like, whoa, that way.

[Birdie]

Oh, God, I forgot.

[Kelsey Plum]

This is what we have to do.

[Birdie]

We're, like, learning everything from, like, square one terminology, like, whatever it is.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yes. Yeah.

[Birdie]

And, like, just get to, like, pick up and start from where you left off last year.

[Kelsey Plum]

New teammates. And, like, I remember, too, training camp, something I always love playing for Becky. Like, we just always play. And then I'm like, drills.

[Birdie]

Well, you have a young team.

[Kelsey Plum]

No, but, like, again, something you don't even think about. Yeah.

[Birdie]

A lot of people are still, probably rightfully so, like, learning for sure.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

Actually, I had Arike on much earlier in the season. Like, they were just getting going, like.

[Kelsey Plum]

A couple weeks in, but even then.

[Birdie]

It was like, young team, brand new coach, totally different experience. Even though she didn't. She's still in Dallas. It's basically like she's on a new team. Brand new team. And just, like, the growing pains with that. And, like, I could see, you know, if you watch the interview, you can see it. It's just.

[Kelsey Plum]

It's hard.

[Birdie]

It's really hard. What do you feel like you're able.

[Kelsey Plum]

To teach these younger players, or are.

[Birdie]

They teaching you patience.

[Kelsey Plum]

For sure. I think that when you're on a vet team, you forget being a pro. People talk about being a pro. What does that even mean? You don't think about it until you're like, oh, hey, I know Practice is at 11. Probably gotta be here at 9. You know what I mean? Just, like, things like that or, like, I think if anything, like, I'm not someone that is a big, like, barker. Try more by example. And, like, I know I'm competitive and intense, but I'm, like, very encouraging. So I just think, if anything, looking back at my experience, wishing what I would have had. Wish I had more vets that I could have just lean on to, like, encourage me and empower me. That's how I try to lead now. Just, like, belief. I think people just need to know that you believe in them. And I really do. I mean, I got, like, bet my career on this. I believe. Yeah. I'm gonna say it that way in a sense, you know, in Terms of. And so, like, yeah, absolutely.

[Birdie]

With them.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah, specifically. And so, like, I really do believe in the young talent, the coaches, gm, like, everything that they're doing, I see the vision and it's really, like you said, it's a level of patience.

[Birdie]

What are you seeing so far in Rekia? I feel like she's one of the young players that's like, God, the ceiling is crazy.

[Kelsey Plum]

Birdie the other day in practice playing against guys, we're on D. This guy, like, backdoor cut. She was coming, weak side. Someone passed it to him. He goes up to dunk it, and she, like, if this is the rim, she blocked them at the rim. I've never seen that before. Like, with a. With a. With a female.

[Birdie]

Yeah.

[Kelsey Plum]

I was like, I got the outlet pass. I just threw the ball up in the air. Like, that was the most impressive thing.

[Birdie]

Practice.

[Kelsey Plum]

Practice is over course. Did end practice. Oh, really? Yeah. Unbelievable talent. And she plays hard. She's fearless. And I think, too, like, now that we have, like, more consistency, I think it's just going to continue to, like, benefit her in terms of, you know, she can just continue to grow and have the freedom to be who she is, which is just. I mean, just unbelievable. Yeah.

[Birdie]

What about playing with De Erica again?

[Kelsey Plum]

Dee's awesome. I love playing with Dee. I mean, Dee and I have known each other since, what, the inception of San Antonio. Yes, I know. And, like, what I love about Dee is, like, Dee plays hard all the time, you know, and, like, I don't even know how she does it with, like, two kids and all the energy. And I'm like, this is unbelievable. Like, holding legend after playing 38 minutes, having 20 and 10, you know, it's just. It's unbelievable. And she's just a great teammate. I love playing with Dee. The way she moves on and off the ball. No, I mean, it's been awesome.

[Birdie]

So I know we're already at the point in the season where. So you guys, as of right now, as we Talk, you're in 10th place, but you're just two games out of eighth.

[Kelsey Plum]

Dude. You're watching that? Yes.

[Birdie]

Get your eye on it.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

You're five one after the All Star break again as of today. You just got Cam back. You just said you're having more consistency after having some injuries at the star and different things. What do you think has been working as of late and what needs to keep happening or what needs to happen for you guys to actually make the playoffs?

[Kelsey Plum]

I mean, what needs to happen is us defend. That's What Derek said.

[Birdie]

There's actually been really fun to do this interview. Like, not literally back to back, but like in such a short time. You guys are saying all the same things.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. Well, that's good. Yeah. Yeah.

[Birdie]

You're on the same page.

[Kelsey Plum]

Could you imagine it was like completely opposite. You're like. Yeah, I would say definitely defend. I mean, our scoring is. I don't know about pre all star break, but post all star break's been phenomenal.

[Birdie]

Your scoring's been crazy.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah.

[Birdie]

Post officer break, the defense has actually been like, basically the same. It's just your scoring has gone up.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yes.

[Birdie]

Just from like a, you know, like net rating, whatever standpoint. I don't know what it feels like.

[Kelsey Plum]

No, it definitely feels like that. Way more efficient. I think we're turning the ball over less with the exception of the last game, I think too. Just also Ray helps a ton off the bench. Cam getting back. I think the difference has been us playing faster, getting more confident in the system. Less pick and roll. Less pick and roll?

[Birdie]

Are you not a fan right now?

[Kelsey Plum]

It's not that I don't like pick and roll, but like, I would prefer not to have pick and roll. Like you prefer less. Not like no pick and roll, but like, I just want space. Okay. Because I think, to be honest, like, I mean, you've worked with no before, but I think it's just more of like you're literally just bringing extra fender in your space now. I get it. A lot of times you need to create an advantage. But I think creating advantage, moving without the ball, stepping to the ball, finding the open space. For me, that's probably. I do that at a higher level. Not saying I can't play in pick a row. I can.

[Birdie]

How excited was Noah when you did the slow mo Euro step at the All Star game? That that's the first thing I thought of. I was like, Noah is somewhere, I don't know, throwing a party.

[Kelsey Plum]

He said all his boys were texting him, like, sending him the courts.

[Birdie]

The first thing I thought of.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yeah. Was that everyone on the court was like, that was a travel. And I was like, unfortunately, it's not. It's not. Oh, my God. I do it in practice sometimes. And the guys, like, don't jump anymore. They just stand there and then they block it. They get so pissed. This isn't real.

[Birdie]

Noah is your boyfriend, but he's also, you know, I'm gonna give Noah some props here. A world renowned, a well known, like, player development coach goes way beyond that because he, like, taps in to, like, the mental side, it goes way beyond. I feel like that doesn't do it justice. But for time's sake, um, he's somebody that has worked with so many NBA players. He worked with Diana Taurasi for a very long time. That's when I got to work with him.

[Kelsey Plum]

Really.

[Birdie]

Just, like, limited, but I loved it. And I know somebody you work with and now are dating, but he is, like. So I don't know, just, like, from a footwork standpoint. I love how he thinks about, like, how he's going to train or, like, coach a player. That's, like, my favorite part. Watching film with him, him showing you something that you did, didn't do it well, probably. And then you're going to go out and actually work on that. So when you did that in the All Star Game, I, like, knew it was Noah. I was like, I knew he was.

[Kelsey Plum]

Going to be happy. I mean, I'll take it a step further, though. Like, I started working with Noah 2022. It's like, first careers, career highs, like, big career highs. Yeah. I mean, that's another person that's transformed my career. Just like, space reads, footwork, like, cognition, on and off the ball. Like relocating. Relocating TB12s, like, finding people.

[Birdie]

Is it hard to separate when you go home?

[Kelsey Plum]

Oh, well, like this. The thing is, like, we're just, like, in a great relationship now. But he did coach me then. He's obviously was at Memphis and stuff like that. But I think. No, to be honest, I think it's cheat code. I get text in the locker room at halftime. It's freaking awesome. He's like, hey, like, you miss the space for your left side, like, open, you know, all of a sudden, like, it's freaking awesome.

[Birdie]

That's amazing.

[Kelsey Plum]

I'm so happy for you guys.

[Birdie]

Okay, you've now, like, in your WNBA career, essentially experienced, like, every role. Right. The expectations of a number one pick coming off the bench being a part of what we'll call like, a big four in Vegas. And now at this stage of your career, you're, like, the key piece, which is more challenging, like, which is just, like, harder.

[Kelsey Plum]

The young years are really hard. Were really hard also. Just, like, you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel a lot, you know? And there are definitely moments where you're like, gosh, is this what I really want to. You know, I'm not having fun, like, any of the things. Yeah.

[Birdie]

Like, I actually. I love where you're going with your answer, because I don't Even mean it from, like, just the playing standpoint.

[Kelsey Plum]

Right. You're more like.

[Birdie]

It's like the whole package.

[Kelsey Plum]

The whole thing. Right. Yeah. The young years were hard and then overseas. Yeah. And well, I actually, too. I will say I'm glad I got that experience. Like, different level of experience in Turkey and the pressure. Fenerbahce, all that stuff than going to play for Gala, like, being a traitor, you know, all the things I got, I got like. I almost feel blessed. I got like a dip of the old, and then now I get a dip of the new. Not pretty much. Not many people can say that. Yeah. Yeah. That's unique.

[Birdie]

All right, Plum, you're averaging this year. You're averaging 20.1 points, 5.9 assists.

[Kelsey Plum]

Is that right? I know. I need to get to. I'm just kidding.

[Birdie]

No, you're having. I know. It's been like every WNBA season. There's ups and downs, but where you guys sit now, you have a really good chance of making a push. So what does success look like? Like, when the season's over, you look back.

[Kelsey Plum]

What.

[Birdie]

When you think about yourself and then think about the team, like what you're like.

[Kelsey Plum]

That was a success for sure. The playoffs, like, winning and impacting winning. I remember, too, when we were in Vegas, you learn a lot in the playoffs. Right. So you can, like, build off of that.

[Birdie]

Yeah. Like, the experience of it does collectively something.

[Kelsey Plum]

Yes. It's huge. Especially going from last. Last year to go to the playoffs, like, that would be awesome. So that's success for now. Okay. I don't know. Yeah, for one year, for sure. I think. I think that's pretty big. No, it's huge. Yeah, I would say that. Thanks for coming on for me. That's awesome. Thank you. All right.

[Birdie]

I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation with Plum. I know I did. I think what stuck out the most was she just has a vibe about her, like, this is what she's doing. This is what she was always meant to be doing. There is no plan B. There is no safety net, and not everybody can do that. But for Plum, it's kind of like a superpower. It's the only way she knows how. And I'd argue it makes her who she is, and it's really why she's reached the level she's reached. I mean, she. The kid pitched an internship to attend WNBA games, to come to Storm games. That's crazy. You know, the one quote that stuck out was she said something like, every turn I've had to win people over, and you know what? I'm sure she's going to win more over with her story. Like I said, Hope you guys enjoyed this episode is a co production of Together and Vox Media. Our producers are Tommy Alter, Jason Gallagher, Richie Bozick, Harry Krinsky, Jess Claire and Melanie Carter and a special thanks to Ramon Dompour. Support for this show comes from Google Pixel. You can make magic happen with Google Pixel. Use it to create amazing photos and videos, get more done and keep your info safe. Plus it comes built in with Gemini, your handy AI assistant made to help supercharge your ideas, making your smartphone a smarter phone. Meet Pixel 9 Pro, a stunning new design, the advanced AI power of Gemini and their best camera yet. You can learn more about the new Google Pixel 9 with Gemini Live on the Google Store. Sequences shortened. Gemini Live available for ages 18, compatible with certain features and with certain accounts. Results for illustrative purposes and may vary. Check responses for accuracy. Thanks to Nike for their partnership. Sometimes winning is hard, sometimes it's painful. But Nike knows when you step on the court, it's what you came here to do. From the champions to the underdogs, from the top of their class prospects to the little brothers finally dunking on their older brother in the driveway, we all have the same win. Nike provides the best gear, products and stories to get you from the first quarter to the last, even when you feel like you have nothing left to give. Visit nike.com for more information and be sure to follow Nike on Instagram, TikTok and other social platforms for more great basketball moments.

[Kelsey Plum]

Support for this podcast and the following message comes from America's Navy the Navy offers new graduates hands on training and experience in careers like computer science, aviation and medicine, plus education and sign on bonuses. Parents help your grads start their career [e-mail].