← Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Napheesa Collier on the Lynx Dominance, UConn Hoops, and Being an Elite Defender
01:32:29
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- [00:00]
Sue Bird
Support for Bird's Eye View comes from Nike. What was your biggest win? Was it in front of a sold out stadium or the first time you beat your teammate in practice? Nike knows winning isn't always done in front of cheering crowds. Sometimes winning happens in your driveway, on a quiet street, at the end of your longest run, or in the blacktop for a pickup game. Nike is here for all the wins, big or small. They provide the gear you bring, the mindset. Visit nike.com for more information and be sure to follow Nike on Instagram, TikTok and other social platforms for more great basketball moments.
- [00:33]
Nafisa Collier
Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea when you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need Pure Leaf iced tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a Pure Leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a Pure Leaf.
- [01:04]
Sue Bird
You just said you might not have played 2023 and 2023 ends up being the first time you make all WNBA first team.
- [01:11]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. Yeah.
- [01:13]
Sue Bird
So like what, how did. Hey everybody, welcome back to Bird's Eye View. Our guest today is a walking double double, a five time all star, a two time Olympic gold medalist and the heartbeat of the Minnesota Lynx. And when she's not getting buckets in the wnba, she's building the future of the game. As a co founder of Unrivaled, she does it all with style, toughness and that quiet confidence that everyone respects. I'm excited to welcome Nafisa Collier. But first, you know what time it is. It's time for Sue's View. So normally for Sue's View I give you my take on what's happening around the league, but today we're switching it up. We're bringing you the fans into the conversation. I'm going to be answering a couple questions directly, so let's just get started. I did have a really big, I mean I can't even put into words what kind of weekend I had. Last weekend my statue in front of Climate Pledge arena was unveiled in. It was an amazing time. My friends, my family, the Storm organization did such a great job. I said I just can't put into words what it means to know that my family members, their kids, their kids, kids, the fans kids and their kids, kids Kids. Kids will forever be able to visit this statue. It goes way beyond me. You can check out the entire unveiling if you want. I think it's on YouTube or something like that. But yeah, just an amazing, an amazing weekend and this zero surprise that some of the questions that you guys sent in had to do with the statue. So I'll get right to it. So Grace motes with a double S at the end. They asked, what was the statue process? Like, what kind of say did you have in? Was actually a really easy process. I got to choose the pose which, fun fact, I first tried a pull up jump shot. I'm like known for my pull up jump shot. My little feet tuck behind me usually when I do it. But we couldn't, we couldn't quite get that. It didn't look like I was in the air. Kind of just looked like I was on my tippy toes. Because obviously a statue does have to be connected to the ground. It's kind of how it works. So I had to bag that idea. And then very quickly I found what ended up being the pose that I use, which was me shooting a layup. In my speech, I talked about how my first WNBA points and my last WNBA points were all in a layup. So that layup does have meaning. And that one in particular is also what's used as the logo on the storm floor. So there was a lot of just, I don't know, good little stories in there that I really enjoyed. The best part by far was the hair and the ponytail. Makes it look like the statue's in motion, but it's just, I don't know, it gives it. It gives it true life. I also got to pick the sneakers. I also got to pick the uniform. So, yeah. And I went to the studio two different times throughout the course of the last year. First was to see a 12 inch clay version of the statue. And it was within that smaller version where I got to make little tweaks, like, oh, my knee was a little too far this way. Put it this way. Oh, my arm actually looks more like that. But they did a full measurement of my body, so it wasn't just based on a picture. They did full measurements everywhere to make it what it was. And then once we did those little tweaks, it was really crazy. It just, it really just started to look like me. I can't explain it. It was like one little movement here and there and all of a sudden it was me. And then when I went back, which ended up being the last time I saw the clay version of the statue before it got bronzed. I walked in and immediately I was blown away. I was like, that's my face. That's like how my body moves. It was amazing. And you know, I look kind of ripped, so that was a nice little byproduct. Okay. Michellecomo asked, how did you choose the sneaker for your statue? I just my all time favorite Seattle storm sneaker. The Huarache 2K4 is one of my all time favorite basketball sneakers. But the green and yellow colorway that I wore it had my nickname Birdie on the side. It was actually a no brainer. Okay, last question. Ennis2356 As a newer fan of the league, what WNBA big history moments should I check out? This is a big question. Man, this kind of got me thinking like maybe I need to do like a big history moment. Just every podcast like just give you guys one thing, almost like a deep cut to go check out. But the first couple things that come to mind, if you haven't already seen these Teresa Weatherspoon's half court game winner 1999 WNBA Finals Lisa Leslie's dunk in 2002, the first dunk ever. You've got the Houston Comets dynasty. Four championships in a row. You've got the Hamby Heaven. We've talked about that here with dear Gahamby and Kelsey Plumb. But if I to give you like a couple other just like deeper cuts, I'm going to go with Angel McCaughtry 38 points. That is a WNBA Finals record. She did that in 2011 versus the Minnesota links. She played for Atlanta. She was drafted there in 2009. Atlanta was an expansion team in 2008. So angel comes the next year. They go to three finals by 2011 an expansion team. So from 2008 to 2011 goes to the final three times now they got swept every time. But that's besides wine that side's point. Angel McCaughrey is one of the most. God, she just played the game different. She played at her pace and that 38 point game was, was pretty special. And then I'm going to leave you with a game to go watch. First and foremost we need the wnba. Somebody needs to get on these games. We to have more games on YouTube. We need to have more historical games on YouTube. We need to be able to go watch these things right now. You can't really go back that far so I'm going to leave you with this game. Seattle Storm in 2020 played the Minnesota Lynx in the semifinals of the playoffs. Go check out game one. Not only was this a close game with a game winner at the buzzer, but to me, this was when Fee really started to show, like, who she could be in this league. Like I said, it was a great game. I happen to be there as well. We happen to win. That's besides the point. But Fee and I talk about this game, and like I said, you could really start to see some things. And to be honest, no better way to get to our interview. Okay, first of all, welcome. You grew up in Missouri, which is kind of this low key hotbed for basketball players. It's like you. Wait, quick question. Do you claim Candace? Does Candace claim you guys?
- [08:04]
Nafisa Collier
Candace? No. Parker? No. No. I think she claims Chicago only.
- [08:08]
Sue Bird
Okay.
- [08:08]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah.
- [08:09]
Sue Bird
Because on the interwebs, sometimes they throw her name in there. But anyways.
- [08:13]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, I like, obviously you.
- [08:15]
Sue Bird
Yeah, obviously you. Then there's like Jackie Styles, more. More current. Sophie Cunningham, of course, Maya Moore. But what are some of your earliest memories? Just about basketball in general. Growing up in Missouri, I mean, my.
- [08:31]
Nafisa Collier
First ones were just rec league. You know, I didn't even really start getting into the game until I started in high school. Kind of watching a little bit more like I'd watch the Olympics, but getting more like Maya Moore was my introduction into that because as you mentioned, she's from Jeff City, and that's like a really small town in Missouri. There's just like, not a lot. Not a lot going on there. We actually OG Anunoby is from Jeff City, so now we have like three professional players from there. But she was kind of my only role model at the time. Like my introduction. She went to UConn, so I watched her there. Kind of my introduction into UConn too. Just becoming a fan that way. And then of course, going to Minnesota. So she is one of my earliest memories. I mean, I have a picture even. I think I was in middle school. She was like, playing pickup. It must have been a summer that she was off from school, just playing pickup at the ymca. And I had gone there and I saw that everyone was like, oh, my gosh, Maya Moore's here. Maya Moore is here. And I think that's the first time I met her. I was like, who is that? So I actually have a picture of her through that. She was just playing pickup at the Y. So it was really cool to kind of have her be like, one of my first memories of that.
- [09:34]
Sue Bird
Yeah. You know, it's funny, it's not the same, but somewhat similar. Tina Charles kind of followed me, like, through. I always. I'm like, you keep following me. Same high school, same college. For us, it was more like meeting up and playing together at the Olympics. But when you think about Maya. Yeah, when you think about Maya, how impactful was it to have a version of a. See it be it, right? To see somebody who came from where you're from. I mean, like you said, it's pretty crazy to come from the exact same hometown and then go on to do the things that she did.
- [10:07]
Nafisa Collier
It was so impactful. And honestly, I kind of got introduced to her after that through her aunt, so Maya's cousin. The aunt is the mom of a classmate of mine. And so I kind of knew them through that. And so she's the one that was like, you know, maya's the best player in the country. You need to, like, watch her. And so she's kind of the one that encouraged me to do that and got me kind of hooked, like, on watching Maya and becoming a fan of hers. So kind of having that personal connection makes it even more, like, I'm more invested, you know? So I'm, like, watching her clips, watching her games. Like, I want to. I want to be like Maya when I grow up. And it's the same. Like, with Tina, I just missed her everywhere. Just missed her. Like, she left. Just missed her out of college, never played with her. She left the year before I got to Minnesota. It was, like, my one chance finally.
- [10:51]
Sue Bird
Not even like, a USA Basketball camp or something?
- [10:54]
Nafisa Collier
No, not even USA Basketball.
- [10:56]
Sue Bird
Yeah, she was.
- [10:58]
Nafisa Collier
I think she graduated in 13, so she's, like, seven years older than me. And so we didn't. Really. The only chance I would have had was Minnesota, and she, you know, retired the year before. But it was really cool to have someone like that from your hometown. It felt so niche. I think that's why it, like, really stuck with me, because, like, what are the odds the best player in the world went to Jeff City? Like, came from Jeff City, came from such a small town, like me. So that was really cool.
- [11:22]
Sue Bird
Cheryl Reeve, obviously the coach of Minnesota Lynx, she said there was, like, a quote she had. I think it was at Maya's retirement, where it was like, the impact of Maya Moore is that Nafeesa Collier got to dream of one day being like Maya Moore. And I thought that was, like, so poignant because it's so true, and it's really cool that. Have you been able to connect with Maya, just, like, given all the different connections I have?
- [11:46]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. I mean, we had those Little touch points when I was growing up, just through her aunt. Like, her aunt did a really great job of kind of facilitating that. But especially since coming to. She visited a couple times at UConn, actually, but since coming to Minnesota, like, I've seen her a lot. She comes back for things, and now we both are at Jordan Brand, so that's, like, another place that I kind of see her. So it's kind of cool to be able to, you know, talk through those things and kind of pick her brain when I do see her, because I never got the opportunity to play. So, like, when I see her, I'm asking her all these questions, and so it's pretty cool.
- [12:15]
Sue Bird
So back in high school, you were the Gatorade Missouri player of the year your sophomore year and then your senior year. Let me see if I'm getting this right.
- [12:24]
Nafisa Collier
I think that's right. Yes. Yeah.
- [12:25]
Sue Bird
But your junior year, you lost to Sophie Cunningham.
- [12:28]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, I sure did. What happened? I don't know. Come on, people. What the heck? We were winning. We won three years in a row.
- [12:35]
Sue Bird
Did you play against her?
- [12:37]
Nafisa Collier
I played against Sophie since I was in eighth grade.
- [12:40]
Sue Bird
Wow. How would you describe her then versus now? Is it similar?
- [12:44]
Nafisa Collier
She's the exact same. Yeah.
- [12:46]
Sue Bird
Exact same. Okay. I love that. Oh, my God. That's hilarious. Another story that I read that I think is so interesting, because there's a ton of foreshadowing in this, is that at some point, you tried to join an AAU team, and they basically told you there wasn't any room. So tell everybody the story.
- [13:07]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. So again, that small town in Jeff City, my parents, neither of them are from Jeff City, so my dad's from Africa, so he, like, came there in 94. And my mom was from, like, a. Basically, like, a farm 20 minutes from Jeff City. So it was kind of a little bit cliqueish. So people, you know, they'd grown up together, their kids had gone through sports together growing up, and by the time I started playing basketball, all those teams have been formed. And so, you know, my parents were asking, like, for tryouts. I'm trying to get on a team. And they were saying, oh, it's all filled up. Like, no one has room. And so my parents were like, okay, if there's not a team here, we're going to make our own team. And so from, like, the surrounding cities, we got all the best players in those surrounding towns, and we created our own AAU team. We're called the Lady Warriors. And, yeah, like, we. We just were actually really good like, we ended up beating all these teams. You know, we got really good. All of a sudden, there was room on the team for me. But, yeah, like. And I had one of my. I really credit this coach, her name was Kay Foster, to, I think, like, why I feel like I'm really fundamentally sound basketball player. And I think it's credit to her. She just was so great at focusing on the fundamentals, teaching me, like, real basketball, you know, I think a lot of times for kids, too, it's like, you try. They try to dumb it down almost, because they're kids. You're trying to introduce them to things. She did a really great job of knowing that kids are smart and adaptable and moldable and teaching us things beyond the normal years that you would have, like, for kids that age. And I think it made me a better basketball player. So I credit her a lot to, like, my beginnings in basketball. So, yeah, that was kind of like the story of, you know, you can't. Can't join them, beat them. The opposite of.
- [14:49]
Sue Bird
Yeah, the opposite. I mean, the foreshadowing is obviously unrivaled. You're like, oh, they don't have this. I'm just going to go build my own. I'm curious how tall you were at that time.
- [14:59]
Nafisa Collier
I was always tall. I was always tall. Yeah. I didn't shoot up late. I just started tall.
- [15:05]
Sue Bird
You just came out tall. Got it. You're always a tall. I had a similar experience. I had a coach that, like, AAU days, and it was like these little lessons. There was one thing that would drive her nuts. If you were getting any kind of outlet pass, like something on the run. If you didn't catch it with two hands. Like, if you tried to take it with one hand and just dribble. Oh, practice was over.
- [15:28]
Nafisa Collier
We were all running.
- [15:29]
Sue Bird
But it's something that I've never forgotten. It's, like, stuck. Is there anything you can think back that Kate, like, instilled in you that you still have.
- [15:38]
Nafisa Collier
Honestly, you know what's so weird is pivots. We would work on pivots so much, like keeping your pivot foot down. And now I think I'm really good at, like, up and unders. Pivoting through things like that is something that is really fundamental to my game, and that's something we worked on literally every day. So maybe it's my pivot foot.
- [15:53]
Sue Bird
I believe it because it's true. Like, when those things get in there early, it's, like, locked.
- [15:58]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. Second nature.
- [15:59]
Sue Bird
I know. I'm like. I Wish someone would have taught me a Euro step. I wish someone would have taught me like 30 other things.
- [16:05]
Nafisa Collier
I wish someone would have taught me how to shoot threes.
- [16:07]
Sue Bird
So I wasn't learning it as well.
- [16:09]
Nafisa Collier
We're going to get into that.
- [16:09]
Sue Bird
We're going to get into that because you had a crazy jump from like freshman year of college to sophomore year in your three point shooting. Actually, speaking of UConn. So, you know, obviously I know you very well, I know your story very well, but it is interesting when I do these interviews and I get into the research and you kind of like find these little tidbits you would have never known on your Wikipedia page, which we all know there can be lies on there. It says, so it says. And I actually went and texted coach and CD to double check on this. And their memories are a little. They're like, we don't remember that. It says that you didn't wanna go there. It says you wanted to go to a school that could beat the uconns of the world. Is this true?
- [16:51]
Nafisa Collier
That is true. I did not want to go to UConn when I was, like, looking at schools. To be fair, at this point, I hadn't been recruited by UConn yet. So I'm like, I don't want to go there anyway. But they're just so Good. I mean, UConn, as you know, you started it. Like, they're the standard. And I've always kind of been where, like, I don't want to join now. You call them like super teams. But I didn't want to be, like, on the best team. I wanted to be able to beat the best team. Because that means you're the best. If you're able to beat the best, that means that you are the new best. But of course, coach did end up recruiting me. So I was like, okay, well, I have to take the visit. Even though I'm not going, I have to take the visit. And I went there and I was just like, he just convinced me so thoroughly. And it's nothing like. It's the opposite of what every other coach did. He didn't guarantee me a starting spot. He didn't, you know, say that I'm the best thing ever to, you know, grace the basketball world. In that I is what sold me. Because I've never been where I like smoke of my butt. I like the real. Because that means I can't trust what you're saying, because I know I'm not the best. I know that I need to work on things and if you're saying I'm perfect, I have a starting spot. How do you know that? So the fact that he wasn't doing that is what really convinced me. And at that time, I knew I wanted to be in the wba and I kind of treated it as a job almost. I'm like, this is going to put me in the best position to become a professional basketball player. Like, I'm not going there to party, obviously. You know, like, it's not like they had the. They had the. Honestly, like, the worst rooming situations. They had, like, the worst not.
- [18:22]
Sue Bird
I know. It's amazing they get any of us to go there now.
- [18:25]
Nafisa Collier
I mean, I don't know how they got the first round of you guys, because it's not like you have the history of. Okay, we're the most winningest college either. But you guys came anyway.
- [18:34]
Sue Bird
And we didn't even have, like, the closest McDonald's was 15 minutes away. The closest grocery store. I don't even know where it was.
- [18:41]
Nafisa Collier
Weirdly enough, me and Lou, we used to talk about that all the time. Like, how did he get those first players here? Because dang. I don't mean it was crazy, but.
- [18:51]
Sue Bird
Hello, recruiter. Hello, recruiter.
- [18:52]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, he is.
- [18:54]
Sue Bird
Yeah. He definitely didn't show us the cows on our trips. And then you get there and you're like, whoa, where did these cows come from?
- [19:00]
Nafisa Collier
Where's the cows? Where's the people? Where's the town? We're in the middle of nowhere.
- [19:04]
Sue Bird
In the middle of nowhere. We had one convenience store called Store 24. And that was like our go to for everything. It's like a poor man. 7 11.
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Nafisa Collier
But what else?
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Sue Bird
We had nothing else.
- [19:14]
Nafisa Collier
We were just talking about Diana's documentary and how her mom was like, this is a horror movie. My mom cried, and she dropped me off, too. She's like, where did I leave her? This is a horror movie. My mom did the exact same thing. That's so funny.
- [19:27]
Sue Bird
You know, there's another part to that story. Like, the story in the documentary is so accurate. I've heard that story a million times. I was actually one of the people that picked Dee up. So Dee and Lily, her mom, and get to Connecticut. They land. They go to Coach's house. Lily's gonna stay in a hotel. And then we drive, like, you know, 20, 30 minutes to his house from campus to pick Dee up to take her back. And her visit starts. And when we're there, Lily is like, it's just so dark here, you know? Cause Coach Aemma's like, oh, what do you think so far? It's so dark. And he. And his response, like, classic Coach Auriemma style, is, Lily, it's 9pm it's dark everywhere. Just, you know, it didn't matter. Darkness or not, it didn't matter.
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Nafisa Collier
I thought you were going to say, like, lily, we played inside sport. We got lights or that. Yeah, yeah.
- [20:17]
Sue Bird
Did you take your visit with Lou?
- [20:19]
Nafisa Collier
I did, yep.
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Sue Bird
Okay, so is that. Is that the first time you're meeting her or had you known her already?
- [20:27]
Nafisa Collier
I. I can't remember if that was the first time I met her or if it was after, because I played three on three USA Basketball with her, and I can't remember which one was first. I don't know. I can't remember.
- [20:40]
Sue Bird
But around that time is like, you're starting to. Did you guys click right away? Because when you zoom out, you and Lou have now just been friends for a very long time, obviously, but have gone through a lot together. You're both moms at similar times. So. Yeah. What's it been like to kind of experience all of this with Louis?
- [21:00]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, it's amazing. Did we click? At first, we were cool. Like, cordial, I would say. At usa, she was honestly really quiet and kind of, like, almost shy. And I'm not super outgoing with new people either, so I feel like we were both like that. And then you get to school and you're like, you know, we're the one of three freshmen. You're going through the same experience, and you open up to people. And we found out how, like, weird people are. Like, there's nothing to do, so you make your own fun, and we're just both really weird. And so Lou, I feel like, is just one of those friends. I feel like, like, you and D, it's just. They get you when you don't have to talk. Like, Lou and I, it feels like we're the same person. We have shared so many. We have so many shared experiences, and, like, I don't know, the way we see the world, the way we were brought up, we're just, like, really alike people. And then, you know, just forced through fire. Freshman year is just the hardest thing, you know, to go through UConn freshman year. And it bonds you. It's like, why the teams are so close, why classes are so close. And that's how we became best friends. And she's someone even now. Like, she's still one of my best friends. And you can go months without talking. We'll pick up, like, we never like, we never left, and especially now through motherhood, it's the same. Like, I can explain something to Lou and she'll understand it without me having to pour every single thing that I'm thinking. She just gets it. So she's just kind of one of those friends that are rare to find. So I feel really lucky to have her.
- [22:22]
Sue Bird
Yeah. What's. What's so weird about you two?
- [22:26]
Nafisa Collier
We just. I think. We just think stupid shit is so funny. Like, before TikTok, you had the. Not even vine, it was dub smash. And we would do, like, just all the dub smash stuff. I mean, the videos on my phone. We love dub smash too. It was so fun. It was so fun.
- [22:44]
Sue Bird
That was back when the Internet was.
- [22:45]
Nafisa Collier
Fun, you know, it was a silly place. Not like it is now.
- [22:49]
Sue Bird
Yeah, you bring up your freshman year. Everybody's freshman year, I'm sure across the board in college is just so terrible. All the preseason workouts for you specifically, you're on this, like, amazingly talented team. Brianna Stewart, Morgan Tuck, Mariah Jefferson are seniors. I mean, the list goes on. Gabby's on the team. You know, we already mentioned Katie Liu, Kia Nurse, Azrae Stevens, Crystal Danger. I mean, you guys, you've played through your time with a lot of great players, but especially your freshman year, you had to play essentially behind Stewie and Tuck. What do you think that that taught you?
- [23:24]
Nafisa Collier
I learned a lot my freshman year. I mean, it was, like I said, definitely one of my toughest. I mean, it is my toughest year ever playing basketball, I think, because it was like my world was expanding so quickly. Like, you had to adapt so quickly. First of all, of course, everywhere I played, I was always the best player. You come here, that's no longer how it is. And before, I feel like I played coach makes you become a better basketball player, IQ wise. And before, if we would do like a backdoor cut, that would be a play. And now it has to be a read. Like you. I kind of explain. I think you guys, it Forman, too. Like, learning Forman. It's like an outline of an offense.
- [24:03]
Sue Bird
Yeah, no, we did. For us, we were actually more like a triangle offense.
- [24:07]
Nafisa Collier
Oh, okay.
- [24:09]
Sue Bird
A little bit later. Yeah, I was like, for before all the stores, before there was a food court, before we ran Foreman, that's when I went to Ken, or four man.
- [24:18]
Nafisa Collier
It was three men. You got to walk before you can run. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of like an outline of an offense, and then you work within that. And so learning that was really hard. It was just like, really hard for me to kind of grasp that concept. So all of a sudden, for the first time in my life, I can't remember plays. That's never been my problem before. Just mentally, like, physically too. I'd never lifted away. That's the first time ever lifting weights, going there. So I'm mentally, physically exhausted. Coaches, you know, so hard on the freshman, obviously, trying to get you up to speed to everyone else there. And it was hard. I started. Lost my starting spot halfway through the game playing Memphis. I remember. So, yeah, it was just like it forced you to sink or swim. So that was what has honestly, like, I think, built my mental strength more than anything is that experience. And it allows me to kind of push through things now as a, like, professional.
- [25:10]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I feel like a lot of UConn players do have a similar story of, you know, for lack of a better getting broken down to then having to build yourself up, which I think does give players more confidence moving forward. Do you think that is what the secret sauce is like? How, in your words, how does this program just continue to elevate players games?
- [25:35]
Nafisa Collier
I think so, because, I mean, your physical abilities, there's always going to be someone bigger, faster, stronger than you. If you can build that mental fortitude, the basketball iq, you can play forever. Like, you can play like you, indeed, like into your 40s, and it allows you to still be a top player in there. Like, you find new ways to adapt. You're smarter than everyone else. And he always said that, especially after that senior class left. So, like Stewie Tuck and Mo, he would tell us every single day, well, all the talent's gone, so now you guys have to be smarter than everybody.
- [26:10]
Sue Bird
All down.
- [26:11]
Nafisa Collier
We had all those WBA players you listed. He's like, yeah, all the time's gone. You guys better be smarter than everyone else. So the next three years, he really worked on our mental IQ with mental toughness. But it's. Yeah, I do think that's what the secret sauce is. UConn players are just so smart in the way that they play.
- [26:28]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I totally agree. So I've actually not done this on this pod yet, but because I was fact checking a couple things, I was talking to coach Ariana the other day, and I'm basically gonna do like, you know, almost like a phone and a friend. I asked him, I was like, if you had a couple questions that you would ask Fee, like, what would they be? And this is what he gave me. Okay, first question from Coach Auriemma. Do you remember the block shot at the buzzer against Florida State in the home opener your sophomore year.
- [26:57]
Nafisa Collier
I got blocked. Or I blocked someone. Either way. I don't remember.
- [26:59]
Sue Bird
I don't know. I think you must have blocked it.
- [27:03]
Nafisa Collier
Okay, I don't remember that. I love it.
- [27:07]
Sue Bird
I love it. Next question. You'll remember this because I think it might have been a pivotal point for you. You were first team all American your sophomore year. Honestly, this is not so different from the Gatorade player of the years. You were first team all American your sophomore year and first team All American your senior year. But your junior year, you were only, I mean, only second team. As if that's trash. It's obviously not trash, but, you know, to go from first to second and then back up. He asked, what happened in your junior year and what did you change, if anything, heading into your senior year?
- [27:41]
Nafisa Collier
What happened in my junior year? I don't know. I feel like I hit like a slump almost. I came back just with a fire in my belly. I think my sophomore year, just coming off my freshman year, which I said was like, like just so up and down. I was like, I never want to feel this way ever again. I did a two a day every single day that summer. And that's why I had that, like, huge jump from my freshman year to my sophomore year. I was like, I'm going to come back, like, just I mentally so much stronger. And for me, like, the more practice I put in, the better I feel, you know. So the reps is what, like, builds my confidence. So I was just repping every single day. And I don't think I did the same thing. Going to my junior year, I kind of felt like, okay, I'm here now. Not that I had made it, but I'm like, I don't need to work as hard as I did before. And I just feel like that showed. And also, people are guarding me differently now. Going into my sophomore year, I'm almost like a freshman. No one knows what to expect because I didn't play my freshman year. And so now people have a year of film under their belts and I'm trying to do the exact same moves. It's not going to work the second time around. So I think that was it too. And just trying to navigate that. So similarly feeling that way, I was like, okay, I gotta step back up again for my senior year. And I feel like I've, you know, try to keep that mindset every off season now.
- [28:59]
Sue Bird
Yeah. Real quick. So people understand from your freshman to sophomore year, just in this one Category, Honestly, all the categories but this one category, in your three point percentage, you went from 15% to 43, which is like you didn't even know that. Yeah, no, like a crazy jump. So yeah, I feel like there's another foreshadowing thing happening here when you have a fire in your belly. Yikes for everybody else. But yeah, it is different when you move to the top of the scouring report. Becomes a whole different ball game. Okay, his final question. Do the back to back buzzer beaters in the final four still hurt?
- [29:37]
Nafisa Collier
Oh my gosh, yes. Honestly, I'm not even going to lie until the past. I would say two years, three years maybe. Every time we got to like an end of game situation, it was really close. I had like ptsd. I'm like, here, here we go again. Like someone's gonna hit a buzzer beater. Especially playing against Dallas and Enrique, I'm like, she's gonna make it. She has a 100% accuracy in the last 10 seconds of any quarter or game. But yeah, I do think about that a lot, especially the senior year or sophomore year one with Notre Dame because I was guarding Enrique at the end there. And I think about that a lot too actually, because that is one of the first times I talked to Kobe and he told me like I asked him, you know, what would you do differently? Because he was talking to me about that and he said, you know, the shot clock in your head and then you count it down like 10, nine, eight. And once she gets to a certain like five seconds, you can press up more because she doesn't have time to like be bite. Anyway, he broke this whole thing down and I think about that a lot still, even when I'm in the gain situations now.
- [30:43]
Sue Bird
Yeah. Have you ever been. Have you been on an island since then, like at the end of a game?
- [30:49]
Nafisa Collier
I don't think so. Honestly, I try not to put myself in those situations. Just kidding.
- [30:55]
Sue Bird
For what it's worth, I literally did an interview before hopping on with you. And they brought up. They kind of went through like my career and they brought up we lost my junior year. And it's still. I still like feel physically ill thinking about it. I think it's. Cause with college, there's the expectations that we have. You know, the final four is a huge stage. And it's also when you're out of it, you only get those four years, like in the wnba, you know, you're gonna play for a very long time. I can speak for a 20 year career. There's Always this feeling of, oh, you have multiple chances, and in college, it's like you only got those four. So when one steps away, it just. It lingers. You can't ever go back. Actually, Speaking of those UConn expectations, though, did you feel the weight of that, like, the championship expectations during your time? And how. Listen, you won a championship. You are a champion. But at UConn, a lot of times we're judged by how many we won, which is insane in and of itself. But I'm curious how that shaped your experience. How does it inform how you look back on your career?
- [32:05]
Nafisa Collier
It does. I do think about it. So my sophomore year, honestly, it was like a feeling of shock. You know, we lost on that buzzer beater to. Sorry. So I was talking about my junior year, actually, with that Enrique one. But my sophomore, we lost on the buzzer beater to. Was it like Mississippi State? Mississippi State, yeah. And that was like a moment of shock. The ball went in. I was like, that can't be right. You know, it was just. It was just like, unbelievable almost, because it felt like I had taken it. I did. I took my freshman year for granted. It was so easy. We won the national championship game by, like, what, 30 points? We won every game by 30 points, at least. So it kind of felt like we were going to win. It wasn't even. The possibility of losing hadn't even entered my mind yet. I feel like, at that point, because also, we had started the year just, you know, exceeding expectations because we lost all these amazing players, and, like, everyone thought we were going to go downhill, but we were still number one in the nation. So I'm like, you know, we're still going to win this thing easy. So that's how that first one was. My junior and senior year ones were way more expectation. You know, we're upper class, but now we're older, we have that pain of losing. You know, we're going to use this as fuel. You know, that was like a whole thing that coach went through, ending on a buzzer, beat his heartbreak, you know, so thinking about that, because his thing, like, my sophomore year, we. My freshman year, we had beaten Mississippi State by 50 points, you know, with Stewie's team. And they had put that in their locker room. And he kept telling us over and over again, you know, they put that in their locker room. So they have been using you guys as a target all year. And so when we lost to them, you know, my sophomore year, he kept telling us that after that. So the expectation was definitely a Lot heavier my junior and senior year. So losing those felt way more like a disappointment, like we should have won by now. So I, yeah, I definitely felt that a lot those last two years.
- [33:55]
Sue Bird
Yeah, an under told story is the feeling of being on the bad side of a buzzer beater and the actual feeling of wait, what? There's no time. Like it doesn't, it doesn't feel, it just always feels like there's going to be another second or a couple seconds and when it happens at the buzzer you're just left there. Like that's it.
- [34:17]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, it's the highest of highs and the lows of lows of sports.
- [34:20]
Sue Bird
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the worst feeling ever. So you finish your career, like I said, a national champion. You actually finish ranked third in scoring, fourth in rebounds, seventh in blocks. I want to talk about your defense a little bit. You are an elite defensive player in the conversation for player of the year every year now for the last like, who knows, like four or five years. And also an elite shot blocker. So in your words, like, what makes you so good?
- [34:49]
Nafisa Collier
I just try really hard. I don't know, I feel like defense is all effort, you know, and that's something that coach really like brought out of me too was my defensive side again just, I feel like high school, my team, every team I've been on honestly was just like so much better than the teams that we played against. So you don't learn those skills that you need to when you're playing people that are also really good. And so defense was something that coach really stayed on me for, for all four years. Like, and I think it's because he got it into my head that I'm such a bad defensive player like my first couple of years that once I became good, I still didn't really think I was that good. I'm still trying so hard to be a great like defensive player. And so yeah, I think it's just, it's like kind of reading people like knowing the scattering poor, doing your homework on, you know, what they like to do, kind of timing things. Because I'm undersized, I'm short for my position. So you really have to use anything you can to get a leg up. Like you have to know the scatter before you have to know what shoulder like to go over. There's a kind of time when they're going to be jumping to try to block it. So trying to use my brain more than my physical abilities on that side of the ball for sure.
- [36:02]
Sue Bird
Yeah. I mean, listen, keep the chip. Keep the PTSD that Coach Orema clearly gave you on being a bad defender. But when I was chatting with him, he said, I was like, was she always a good defender? You know, just trying to understand. He was like, yeah, always. I know. And then he. I was like, well, what made her a good defender? And he was like, so smart. Great anticipation.
- [36:23]
Nafisa Collier
Thanks, coach.
- [36:25]
Sue Bird
But if you need it. He also said, you suck and you're terrible, so keep it in mind.
- [36:29]
Nafisa Collier
Tommy told me that. I'll keep. Yeah, I'll keep that.
- [36:33]
Sue Bird
Okay. So moving to offense, I mean, I already mentioned the jump you took from freshman to sophomore year. What are some of the big differences in your game from those college days to now? And, like, what do you credit that to?
- [36:46]
Nafisa Collier
I think my ability to create a little bit more. Before it was really just like, I would sit in the paint, I'd do a fade away or I'd spot up and do a three. I think my ball handling has gotten better where I can, you know, do like step throughs, like spin moves, like doing more things in the paint. And I think it just comes with experience, honestly, like, yes, of course. I'm still working every off season. I really try to focus on, like one thing every off season to get better at, but it's so much experience. Like, you can't really teach a lot of the stuff that people get better at. As you play more years, you know, how people start to defend, you just see the game a little bit differently. One thing I do think is different is I watch a lot more than I used to. Now especially, you know, these games obviously impact my, you know, the seating for my team. And I know everybody. Like, you're watching games a lot more. I didn't used to watch that much. And watching you just learn so much, you see the game a lot differently than, you know, like, the court view when you're playing. And that helps me a lot.
- [37:47]
Sue Bird
Did you just start doing that naturally or was someone like, yo, you need to watch?
- [37:51]
Nafisa Collier
People have been telling me I need to watch for a long time. I just started listening. I guess I'm busy.
- [37:56]
Sue Bird
I'd rather go shopping.
- [37:57]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, I want to do something else. Yeah.
- [37:59]
Sue Bird
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- [38:39]
Nafisa Collier
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- [39:23]
Sue Bird
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- [39:27]
Nafisa Collier
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- [39:31]
Sue Bird
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Nafisa Collier
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- [40:05]
Sue Bird
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- [40:08]
Nafisa Collier
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- [40:21]
Sue Bird
So you talk about working on something every offseason. What was it this offseason?
- [40:25]
Nafisa Collier
Ball handling was a big one. Just getting stronger with the ball honestly. Not so that I could, you know, be one of those breakdown players that has to dribble a bunch to get by someone. But just so that I feel better in my moves. You know, like we talked about, the more people see, the more they know what you're going to do. So making sure I'm strong like going into the paint, making sure I can dribble into like a post up kind of thing. So just that I kind of feel more comfortable with the ball. And then also three point shooting. I wanted to be more consistent this year.
- [40:52]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I definitely see more, I guess we'll call it like perimeter abilities out of you probably over the last couple of years. But yeah you can see it. Okay, you're headed into the draft, right? Senior season is over. I have to know what was happening. Cause you go sixth, okay, looking back, this is, like, insane. It's hard to even imagine that you dropped that far. And sixth is totally respectable. It's not to say anything bad about the actual number, but given where you are now, it's like, how did nobody see this? So tell me or walk me through what draft, what the draft was like for you.
- [41:28]
Nafisa Collier
The draft was a little bit crazy before then. You know, our draft class talks about that a lot. We have such a strong draft class. There's still so many of us still playing in the league. And so that was one of the years that we didn't know who was going to go one. I didn't think I was going one, but we didn't know who was going to. I feel like the years before that, you always knew at least who the first pick was. But, you know, I think it was like Holly that asked me this question before, like, what has made you so different? And it's like, it's hard for me to objectively see why, because I felt like I always had this within me. Like, I didn't know that other people didn't see it kind of thing. So I don't know why people didn't see it. Because you always believe in yourself.
- [42:13]
Sue Bird
I know. I think everybody watching was, like, shocked.
- [42:17]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. That has the.
- [42:19]
Sue Bird
Yeah. And then also like, damn, she's in Minnesota now.
- [42:27]
Nafisa Collier
I don't know. I also am a huge believer. Everything happens for a reason. So maybe I was just meant to be in Minnesota. It worked out for the best, for sure.
- [42:34]
Sue Bird
You couldn't. It's like a storied franchise where you are teaming up with, you know, Sylvia Fowles in her last couple of years and getting to learn from her, obviously, Sheryl Reeves. So much success, everything surrounding the franchise. So, yeah, sometimes I forget who I was talking to, maybe Ryan Howard recently, and they were kind of like, I forget exactly how she worded it. But the essence was it really doesn't matter what number. It does, in a sense, because, yeah, it's where you go, even if that means you're picked 20th, if you end up in the right place. And you could definitely make the argument that you're in the right place. But I am. But. So now you get to Minnesota and what are some of, like, your earliest memories? Memories of. Of being there. Like, just impressions in general.
- [43:20]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. It was like, honestly, such a whirlwind. We had the final Four. Literally. I think it was three days later, we were at the draft, and then a couple days later, I was at Minnesota. So first of all, you're just, you know, like, wary, kind of scared, because all of a sudden, you're at the bottom of the totem pole again. You feel like top dog when you're a senior at UConn, you know? You know everything. And all of a sudden, I'm at. I'm a rookie. But my first memories was of Syl. She was so amazing. Anyone who knows Sil, she's called Mama Sil for a reason. Like, she gave me a huge hug. She's like, baby, anything that you need, I got you. Call me anytime. She gave me a huge hug. She just loves it. She means it. She's one of the most genuine people I've ever met. Like, so warm, so motherly. Love, Sil. And so, I mean, it was that, honestly. And then we got into playing, and I sucked. We were in training camp in preseason. We had two preseason games. I think I had five points between the two games. I had a three and a two, and each, like, what were you finding.
- [44:20]
Sue Bird
To be, like, so difficult?
- [44:22]
Nafisa Collier
First of all, I think I was just not playing confidently. Like, again, I felt like I was bombed the totem pole. I shouldn't be the one taking the shots. Like, I didn't do what got me there. That doesn't mean shooting. But I wasn't being aggressive in anything, trying to get rebounds, trying, you know, play defense. I was playing kind of skittish, like I was my freshman year. And that's exactly what I was thinking. I'm like, I am not doing that again, because, again, that was just, like, the worst mental space to be in. And so before our first game, you know, Karima was in the starting spot. She got hurt. I think she tore acl. And so I. That's how I got my starting spot. And I was like, okay, I'm leaving that behind. I have to at least play confidently. It doesn't matter if I make shots or anything. Everything I do, I'm gonna do it with confidence. And I ended up having 27 points that game, and I. I just, like, mentally, I never looked back.
- [45:09]
Sue Bird
Yeah. So 27 points in a rookie debut is the second highest. It puts you right behind Candace Parker. Um, you shot eight for ten, three. Four from three. Three blocks, like, all over the place. I actually remember watching it, um, which is so interesting, because I never would have known that you weren't already in the starting lineup. Like, it just seemed like oh, player from UConn High Pick. Of course she's going to start. So it's interesting to know that training camp, let's say, wasn't. Didn't go perfectly.
- [45:38]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah.
- [45:39]
Sue Bird
Is that. Were you also adjusting to playing for Cheryl?
- [45:43]
Nafisa Collier
Honestly not. She's so similar to coach. It was almost like a comfort. Like, okay, I know what this lady wants. Like, I know how to deal with her. Not really. I wasn't really adjusting to her. I was adjusting. Yeah.
- [45:57]
Sue Bird
It's like you went from one demanding. You went from, like, one demanding place to another.
- [46:01]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. It's almost like a safe space. I know exactly what these kind of coaches want. I know what they expect from you. Like, I know how to function here. It was more. Everything is so fast. Everyone plays way smarter. Like, we were talking about the experience. Everyone's so strong. They're super tall. I was undersized in college, but not like in the pros. I wasn't that undersized in college. Now here I am, like, many inches shorter than a lot of people, like, everyone else in my position, so kind of getting used to all that. Like, just reminding myself that I belong here, I guess.
- [46:36]
Sue Bird
Yeah. So would you say those were kind of like the biggest adjustments?
- [46:39]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, I think the physicality, for sure. And, like, with that, the height of people and then. How smart. What about your arms, though?
- [46:48]
Sue Bird
Like, you know.
- [46:49]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, my arms are long.
- [46:51]
Sue Bird
That gives you.
- [46:52]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah.
- [46:53]
Sue Bird
Like some extra. I feel like, honestly, more than anything, watching you play now, it. It does feel like you've learned how to use your length in your defense, obviously, your shot blocking, to maybe counteract the lack of, like, maybe a couple inches that you're giving up to people here and there.
- [47:10]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah.
- [47:10]
Sue Bird
Did that just happen naturally? Yeah.
- [47:12]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I think just learning the timing of stuff helped a lot, too. So kind of I was talking about, like, you learn when people are about to jump, things like that, and I have to do it a little bit earlier till I can get them at the top. You know, things like that.
- [47:24]
Sue Bird
I feel like that one WNBA commercial of you where it's like, advisory, you know, alert coming. I feel like it always just looks like your arm is like, Go Go Gadget.
- [47:34]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah.
- [47:35]
Sue Bird
It's coming out of your shoulder.
- [47:36]
Nafisa Collier
It's not to my body at all, for sure. Yeah.
- [47:39]
Sue Bird
It's huge help. Did you hit any of, like, the rookie wall that people talk about that first year?
- [47:45]
Nafisa Collier
I think probably like, midway through, but I don't remember really, Like, I don't remember feeling mentally down. I'm sure I Went into shooting slumps, but I was, like, trying to get that rookie of the year, and I was just watching every game that Arike is playing because she was like my number one, you know, opponent for that. Yeah, yeah. So I feel like that almost kept me focused, you know?
- [48:07]
Sue Bird
Yeah. Well, spoiler alert. You won it. What did that mean to you?
- [48:13]
Nafisa Collier
It meant a lot. Not like, of course the award. Yes. But again, it was like, it was so many things going on at one time with graduating, Final four, coming to Minnesota, new team, all these things, and I'm a very goal oriented person. So this is something that I kind of focus on to, like, almost calm the storm. It felt like I was in a storm, and that was really calming to me to have a singular goal like that. So I was more proud of myself that, like, I set a goal and I accomplishment accomplished it. So, of course, like, the accolade of winning work of the year is awesome, but I was more proud that I just, you know, the goal aspect of it I was more proud of.
- [48:49]
Sue Bird
What about All Star? Was All Star, like, on your radar? You make the All Star team, but as a injury replacement, which kind of.
- [48:58]
Nafisa Collier
Started my rookie year, now that you think about it. I didn't even.
- [49:02]
Sue Bird
Sometimes it's like that, you know, and it goes on both sides, so don't.
- [49:05]
Nafisa Collier
Feel the way about it.
- [49:07]
Sue Bird
But was All Star something that you were thinking about?
- [49:10]
Nafisa Collier
No, honestly, I can't even. I can't even tell you if I knew that All Star was a thing, honestly, before coming into the W. Because I told you I didn't really watch that. But it's funny because I replaced Asia. She got hurt or something that year, so I was on, and I think she was a starter. She must have been, because Bill was the coach, the old Vegas coach, and I had replaced his player, and he never let me forget it. He. Multiple times, he's like, you know, you're here on an injury reserve. I was like, yeah, I know. He's like, so you. That means you're bombed the totem pole. You're not going to get much playing time. Like, oh, that's fine. I totally understand. Like, I'm not really here to play. I'm kind of here to have a good time. He's like, no, you don't get it. You're here. He pointed to the ground, stomped on it, and moved his foot like this. He's like, you're not playing. I was like, okay, I got it. Classic Bill all the time, like, you want to put me in my place? I'm just happy to be here.
- [50:03]
Sue Bird
Classic Bill. I mean, listen, Cheryl's one of, like, you know, his disciples. Cheryl came from the Bill Laimbeer tree. Can't be doing that to you. That is classic Bill. I actually love that story. This came up when I was talking to Plum when she was on the pod. Just like how he's. He's just like that. But also, I don't know, there's something about him. I feel like the more time I spent with him in the bubble, like, seeing him in the hotel all the time, I was like, oh, I'm up to your game now. Like, hard exterior, soft interior, for sure. And also his little cameo. I don't know if you caught this in Dee's documentary. They're in the car and Penny's like, oh, Bill texted. They're talking about Bill Laimbeer. It's like you knew when to leave or something like that.
- [50:46]
Nafisa Collier
That was funny. Yeah, so funny.
- [50:50]
Sue Bird
So your rookie year, you guys, you obviously have a great individual year. You guys make the playoffs, but it's like single elimination still, so it wasn't much of an experience. But I am curious because we played you in 2020, which I'm gonna get to. That was such a difficult series. I definitely wanna talk about that. Did you learn anything from, like, the single elimination game? I think it was just the one. Like, did you learn anything and take with you on just what playoff basketball is?
- [51:18]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, we played you guys. We lost to Seattle in our game. It actually shaped me a little bit as a player because I, like, gave up that game. You guys were at your peak at that time. You guys are the best team in the league. And I don't remember the score or anything like that. I just remember we were down. There was no chance of us winning. And it felt like I had almost given up. And just the feeling of that, I was just so disappointed in myself. I was like, I never want to be that player ever again. And that has shaped who I am as a player. Like, I keep that in mind, honestly, every game. Especially, like, when we're down at the end, like, I think about that and it allows me to push through, to still work as hard as I can, even if I know that we're going to lose. So that. Actually, yeah, I do remember that about. About that season.
- [52:07]
Sue Bird
Yeah. Well, we met again the next year. I actually didn't play in the 2019 year. I was out that season. But in 2020. Yeah. So we meet you guys in the first round. It's funny because it was a five game series. We're in the bubble. It's at the end. It's a five game series. It's not like home court advantage really exists. I think we flipped courts or something, or home teams in the bubble got to have their music and that was really the only indicator that there was a home game. But, yeah, we swept you. But that did not. That's not how I feel when I think back on that series. You guys were so tough. I'm actually gonna ask kind of like an ending question first. Do you remember what I said to you after the series?
- [53:02]
Nafisa Collier
I don't think so. What'd you say?
- [53:03]
Sue Bird
Okay, we were like walking, you know, obviously we're all going to the same place. So it was like after we were in the back and I was just like, I don't remember exactly how I said this, but I know what I was trying to communicate, which was just like, I'm so glad I'm almost done because you guys are gonna be a problem. Like, I can already feel the problem that is going to be. Yeah, I was like, you guys are good. It was just. You had such a. You had a really nice balance. You had guards that could create off the dribble. They could pressure you defensively. And then it was actually you and Dantas because Sil. Sil was injured, so she didn't play. And in some weird way, you never obviously want to see a player get injured, but in a weird way, it helped unlock this whole other part of the Minnesota Lynx. You're now kind of more. Not more perimeter oriented, but you have these players that can both shoot threes. And it was just a really tough matchup for us. I'm curious, like, what you remember about the series?
- [54:04]
Nafisa Collier
I actually remember it a lot. Just the way it made me feel because same. It didn't feel like we got swept every game. I felt like we were gonna win. And I think. Was it the first? It was the first one. Did it go to overtime or like you guys went on a free throw or like on a buzzer meter? So close.
- [54:21]
Sue Bird
We won on a crazy putback. Yeah, I forget. I think Sammy Wickham got the last shot.
- [54:27]
Nafisa Collier
Oh, my gosh. No, that was like the third game, I thought.
- [54:29]
Sue Bird
I think that was the first game.
- [54:30]
Nafisa Collier
It was the first game.
- [54:31]
Sue Bird
I'm positive. I'm positive because there is an insane picture of me hugging AC. Because what happens is Sammy misses. It falls in AC's hands, and she just quickly puts it back. And then I go and hug her and I look like A psychopath. Because I'm just like, thank God. I don't think we would have survived overtime.
- [54:46]
Nafisa Collier
I. Yeah, I don't think over time. Yeah.
- [54:50]
Sue Bird
Yeah, that was game one. Game two was also, like, back and.
- [54:53]
Nafisa Collier
Forth, but it was like game three was also something crazy. Was it Something crazy happened in game three, too? I thought it was, like, really close.
- [55:02]
Sue Bird
Anyway, game one and game two were the close ones. Yeah.
- [55:04]
Nafisa Collier
Okay. Yeah. It just felt like. Felt like we had a chance because again, you guys are at the top. You are who everyone is chasing. And I was like, we got him. We were gonna get them. And then she had that put back trauma again. I'm like, damn, Every time I get in this situation, I lose. But, yeah, that was. That was super fun because when you. Especially when you're like a young team, and we were, you know, not good my first year, we were like, we were good in the bubble, but you're just trying to be competitive with people. And so we were just, like, really proud of making you guys sweat, really. You know, and that's kind of the difference of, like, the different levels of teams. Like, when you're building, when you're at the beginning, when you're at the top. We were just proud to make the top team. Like, felt like we could get one. We never. I don't know if we ever. Of course, you always think you can win, but realistically, you guys were the better team. But we're like, we can still won, but we didn't.
- [55:58]
Sue Bird
Yeah. No. I feel like for you especially, you went from. You know, you had a great rookie year. We just talked about it. Rookie of the year. A lot of promise. But there was something about that series where you almost, like, became an adult. You know, you went from, like, rookie to, like, adult. Like, this is a player. And that's really how I felt when the season. When the series ended up and I remember running into you afterwards, I just felt like, oh, you're here now. You have, like, officially, this is your team, along with Syl, but still it's becoming your team. And now I see where this is going. We all see where this is going. Yeah. Which the next two years, basically, like, 2021, you continue. You're an all star. You start going overseas, though. So I'm curious how overseas really, in general, like, shaped you.
- [56:50]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. So 2021, actually, fun fact, in 2020, I was in China for 10 days before COVID hit there first, and I had to, like, sneak out in the middle of the night on a flight that my agent booked Yeah, I was not supposed to leave. My team wanted me to stay but everyone was getting trapped in their cities. And at the time I'm like, this is not that big of a deal. My dad thankfully was there with me. He was supposed to only be there for 10 days. And then because he wanted to go to China and then go home, thankfully he watches the news. Because I wasn't watching the news. I didn't had no idea how serious it was. He's like, we need to leave. So I snuck out like a refugee in the middle of the night and my city got quarantined three days later. I would have been trapped there. So that was crazy. Yeah.
- [57:33]
Sue Bird
Thanks dad. That's not.
- [57:35]
Nafisa Collier
I know. That would have been so wild also because the part of them didn't have Internet so I was like trapped from the rest of the world.
- [57:42]
Sue Bird
Yeah, yeah. Were you starting to see like in the streets? It was, it was becoming a thing.
- [57:47]
Nafisa Collier
Like could you sense that in the streets? No. But when we got to the airport it was like have you seen the movie Contagion? Like pandemonium. There was people in hazmat suits. The airport was packed. It was scary. Like it felt like end of times kind of thing. It felt like Contagion the movie and then we get back to America and nothing is happening. It was the weirdest thing. And so when they started canceling stuff, I was like, it's going to get canceled because I saw where this started.
- [58:14]
Sue Bird
So you played in China for a little bit. You also were in France, you've played in Turkey. So just what has overseas, has that done anything helped you in your career?
- [58:24]
Nafisa Collier
I think it's really cool to see. You can tell how different countries play basketball. It's not the same as in America. The people in China have a certain way that they play that's different than the people in Europe and that's different than the Americans. So it's kind of cool to play against those different styles and you pick up things along the way. Like Europe, it's so physical and they love the friggin like behind the back Euro like cool moves kind of stuff. The French league was probably the most physical league I've played in. I guess I've only played two overseas, but it was so physical. Like they really play.
- [58:59]
Sue Bird
Yeah, it's up. I would say France and Turkey are two of the most physical leagues.
- [59:04]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, Turkey was cool. I loved Turkey. I mean I loved France too, but it was Covid so things were kind of shut down. But Istanbul was amazing. Love that city. The Food is awesome. I really like the culture. The team was amazing. They took great care of us. Like, that was. They are both really positive experiences.
- [59:21]
Sue Bird
Okay, good. Yeah. And that's why I started unrivaled.
- [59:27]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. It's such a great time.
- [59:30]
Sue Bird
I created my own league. I know it's not apples to apples in that way, so. Yeah. So, like, moving on through your career, we're now at the point where you get pregnant. What are you thinking in this moment? Like, just what are you thinking?
- [59:45]
Nafisa Collier
Oh, my gosh, it was crazy. I mean, Mila was a happy surprise. So it's not like we had. I had planned to, like, take this time off.
- [59:52]
Sue Bird
I was a happy surprise.
- [59:54]
Nafisa Collier
You're happy surprise. The best things come from happy surprises.
- [59:56]
Sue Bird
Exactly.
- [59:58]
Nafisa Collier
So, honestly, my first thought, like, after telling Alex was, I need to tell Cheryl for two reasons, actually. This is a funny story that I've never talked about in our exit interviews. First of all, I've always wanted to be, like, a young mother, but I kind of wanted to follow my mom's footsteps. So she had my brother and I when, you know, she was 21 and 22 and I got to that age, I'm like, hell, no. But I still always wanted to be a young mother. And, you know, Cheryl, the way she kind of runs a tight ship. And so, you know, you can't have any family members on the planes. And we would take, you know, whatever, regular planes. No one in your family could be on the same flight as you. Like, there's no one allowed in the practice facilities, things like that. So I said, you know, not right now or anytime soon, but I want to have kids. Like, at some point, am I going to be allowed to bring, you know, childcare? Blah, blah, blah. You know, we have these rules. She's like, oh, yeah, for sure. It's way different when you have a family. And I did know I was pregnant at that time, but I was. And so that's our exit interview. Like, literally a week later, I'm calling her. I'm like, hey, I'm pregnant. So I. She's like, is that why you're asking me these questions? I was like, no, I swear I didn't know. But I think. I don't even know. She believes me still to this day.
- [61:03]
Sue Bird
What's it like playing for Cheryl? I feel like a lot of people have a lot of, you know, they're curious. They want to know what Cheryl's actually.
- [61:11]
Nafisa Collier
Cheryl is an amazing coach. Like, she has a gift, honestly, of kind of like Coach Gino of knowing how to get the best out of players. And she's so incredibly smart in the way that she sees the game, the way that she adapts, the way that she puts people in places to be successful. So I really, really like playing Andrew Cheryl. I think she is, like, in my opinion, she's, you know, like, one of the best coaches that I've ever had. Like, I've been really blessed with great coaches and she's a great coach.
- [61:40]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I've actually. So I've never really played for Cheryl. She was the assistant on, like, my last Olympic cycle. And there were times, because dawn was a college coach, where Cheryl would, like, fill in, I guess, for the head coaching spot. So I got a taste of it. But playing against the Lynx, it's like I've always had such respect. And I think exactly what you said comes through when you play against it, her teams. Like, everybody's on the same page. Everybody is giving 100%. She gets people to buy in in a way where you're playing hard, you're executing. And then I did learn from shoot arounds, like when she was an assistant, I was like, oh, you guys really scout, man. You're like breaking plays down. You're like, we're taking away this pass.
- [62:24]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah.
- [62:25]
Sue Bird
And that was really. I was like, oh, now I see. And it really helped me to be honest.
- [62:30]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, that is exactly what is.
- [62:33]
Sue Bird
Cause we went to. Yeah. It got to a point where in Seattle, I think it was, when Jenny Bussek was actually still our coach and she. She already kind of picked up on this. We were like, we can't play call. We can't call plays. The minute you guys see a play call, that's it. You're going to blow it up. It's going to get so hard to make one pass. So we literally just stopped calling plays. Anytime we played you, we just didn't call them. We had like a whole game plan and everybody knew, but we just wouldn't say the plays out loud or it'd be a lot of like. Yeah, but, yeah, outside looking. And like I said, when you can get top talent to play their best and you can get them to play together, I always just have a ton of respect for that. Yeah. And she did. She was. She was kind to you when you got pregnant. So keep going.
- [63:19]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, she was great. She was great. Yeah.
- [63:21]
Sue Bird
Okay. But so now Mila's on the way. So you essentially miss the 2022 season, but you do rush, quote, unquote, rush back because you want to play with Sill For a couple more games. Again, you've already talked about that relationship with Sil. So what did it mean that you got to do that?
- [63:39]
Nafisa Collier
It meant so much. Sil is just like she's been such a mentor. She's just one of the best people ever. And I didn't want to have my last game be not knowing that it was going to be my last game with her. Like I wanted to come back and be able to play a little bit. In hindsight, probably not the best for my body. In fact, it was the worst thing I could do to my body. But it was amazing. Yeah, it did. Like off season was. Yeah. The hard. I didn't know. I didn't think I was going to play the next season. Wow.
- [64:07]
Sue Bird
I had no idea. And it's insane because you just said you might not have played 2023 and 2023 ends up being the first time you make all WNBA first team.
- [64:19]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah. Yeah.
- [64:20]
Sue Bird
So like what. How did that happen?
- [64:24]
Nafisa Collier
Honestly, I think it was a mental shift. It was still was gone and I knew that it was like my team now. And I've always kind of said when I am doing things for other people, it takes all the pressure off me. Like when I am trying to. When I put pressure on myself, that is when I perform my worst because I have such high expectations for myself. When I am doing something where I feel like, okay, everyone is relying on me. Like, you know, if we win or lose, essentially it's going to be on my shoulders. That I think makes me play better. It makes me play freer, harder because there's just a lot more responsibility. And I think that was kind of the shift in like the start of my mindset changing that way and it like making me into a better player. Really?
- [65:06]
Sue Bird
Yeah. I mean, I can't get over that year. You go from like what could have been a super, super. I don't know, difficult time and a low time to have to miss another season. Which by the way, missing back to back seasons just would have been hard in general to come back from.
- [65:21]
Nafisa Collier
It's like a career it's hard to come out from.
- [65:22]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [65:23]
Nafisa Collier
You have to cheat years. Yeah.
- [65:24]
Sue Bird
Really hard. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually why I have a ton of respect for Skyler because that's essentially what happened. Get to play for those two seasons. So you make the playoffs in this year, in 2023, but you guys lose in the first round. Now we're in the off season and I feel like the links, you know, now this is when it starts to take Shape because you add Courtney, you add Natisha. Alata Smith joins the team. Zander Lasini comes back. She had been with the team like years prior. She comes back. When are you getting the sense that this team is going to be special?
- [66:01]
Nafisa Collier
In training camp. Really? Yeah. Because these are players again. Cheryl does a great job of putting people in places to be successful. These are all good players where they were. And specifically I was like, lan, as a free agent, we need to get her on the team because she was so hard to play against in Chicago. I remember every time we play Chicago, I'm like, damn, I got to go against this girl again. She is so hard to play against.
- [66:23]
Sue Bird
And another one, you two are like, you two are low key, bigger than you. Then. Then like your height says, yeah, she's undersized too. Yeah, you're both like, quote unquote undersized, but you play much bigger. So, yeah, it's an interesting combination that you're both like that.
- [66:44]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, so we both shoot too. It really opens up the court for us. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, so, like, I was really happy we got Lyn. I was trying. She was in Istanbul at the time too, playing on a team. So I was like, really trying to recruit her hard when we were over there and then getting Courtney and t just, you know, good players, like, wherever they were. Courtney was in Chicago as well. But I think Cheryl does a great job of like, our system is so built for everywhere that she puts people. And it made like, it put some people on the map. Like, lan had said that she thought about retiring because, you know, she almost didn't get like a contract. She wasn't playing a lot, things like that. And she's turned into like this amazing player. And it's not like it wasn't there before. She just wasn't utilized the way that is most beneficial for her. We just clicked. I mean, and I really can't explain it in any other way. It's just sometimes you have this amazing chemistry with a certain group of people. And you said it best earlier. When you can get really good players to lock in on one thing, like, have all in faith on a coach and in a system and on a team, you can get amazing things out of people. And that's what we did. We just all bought in so hard. Everyone on the team is so selfless. It feels like college where you have that bond with people which is so rare to find in professional sports. And yeah, it was just like, I think in training camp, the energy was just amazing. It was the Best training camp I've ever been a part of. We were hanging out, like, every day. We were doing stuff together, which, again, felt more like the college experience. And we were just having a great time off the court, and it manifested on the court. So it was kind of cool to see that blossom like last year.
- [68:21]
Sue Bird
I definitely think what jumps out with this team, this 2024 team, and then this year's team is that chemistry. And I totally hear you. It's like sometimes it does just click. But has there been any moments where it, like, I don't know, got shaken.
- [68:36]
Nafisa Collier
Up a little bit?
- [68:37]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [68:38]
Nafisa Collier
Honestly, this year, coming into training camp this year was not as good as last year's training camp. And I think it's because we were just firing on all cylinders. The last time we were together, we lost the game, but, you know, we're playing our best basketball. Like, everyone's clicking so well. Last year was so easy in the way that everything came together so perfectly. And so we expected to kind of pick up where we left off. And that's not what happens after six months of not being together. So I think everyone was like, oh, what's happening? We're not the same as we were last year. We're not as connected as we were. We're not firing the same way. And Cheryl actually had to have a talk with us explaining just that, like, you can't expect to pick up where you left off after six months of an entire season to six months off. It's not going to be the same. You have to build up those connections again. And once she said that, it all kind of fell back into place again. Like, we gave ourselves grace. We allowed ourselves to build up that chemistry instead of just expecting it to be there. And I feel like we're even better this year. I think it's, like, made us glue back together and be even stronger because we did kind of go through that shaky time. And it didn't show in the games, but we weren't winning the way we. It didn't show in this, like, the win and loss column, but you could see it in the way that we were playing.
- [69:51]
Sue Bird
Yeah, definitely.
- [69:53]
Nafisa Collier
And so I think that kind of honestly, like, forged us and made us stronger. Like, I feel like we're even stronger this year than we were last year.
- [70:01]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I'm a huge believer. Everyone who listens to this pod is gonna get sick of me saying this. I'm a huge believer in this. It's like, you have to. You have to go through the adversity to then get to the tops. Support for Bird's Eye View comes from Etsy as these ladies dominate the game on the court. Stars Cameron Brink, Skylar Diggins, Neko Guamuke and Briana Stewart are dominating off the court as well and teaming up with Etsy to show how their style travels. With an exclusive collection from Etsy, these athletes showcase their coveted personal style with the help of Etsy sellers. By blending self expression with craftsmanship, this collaboration is more than a drop, it's a celebration of the shared spirit of grit, originality and heart that drives both athletes and makers to create something truly special. The four piece Icon collection includes a two piece clothing set by Skylar Diggins and Etsy seller Mary Lo of by Mary Lo Metal statement earrings by Neko Gumuke and Etsy seller Deja Sparks of Deja Sparks Jewelry, a New York City inspired charm necklace by Briana Stewart and Etsy seller Hadley Staub of From Hadley and Press on nails by Kamen Brink and Etsy seller Hayley Tripp of Bling It On Nails. Plus, each athlete has also curated a selection of more style finds on Etsy, offering a deeper look into their off court aesthetics and creative inspirations. Shop the full collection and curated edits exclusively@etsy.com theiconcollection Eczema isn't always obvious, but.
- [71:23]
Nafisa Collier
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- [71:27]
Sue Bird
After an initial dosing phase, about 4.
- [71:29]
Nafisa Collier
In 10 people taking Eglis achieved itch.
- [71:31]
Sue Bird
Relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks, and most of those.
- [71:35]
Nafisa Collier
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- [72:21]
Sue Bird
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person on the phone or using the award winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Okay, so your 2024 team has a ton of success. You guys, when you think back to the playoffs, just talk very quickly about what like Courtney Williams is bringing, what Kayla McBride is bringing. Obviously, you know, we already talked about Alana, we already talked a little bit about Natisha Heidelman. But those two in particular, what did they bring to your playoff run?
- [73:10]
Nafisa Collier
Just so much like diversity. You can score like we have scoring on all levels. Courtney's mid range game is absolutely insane. Mac is one of the best three point shooters ever in the wnba. So having them being able to hit those shots, like hitting crazy shots, just walking in so much, it was so much fun. Despite how it ended, that was such a fun series. Just two really great teams competing well. We were both playing really well and that's just fun to be a part of. Yes, I wish it ended differently, but even to have experienced that was amazing. And yeah, I mean those two are obviously just essential pieces to our team and it's so fun to see like when they get going and just like, I'm glad they're on my side.
- [73:56]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I would say I haven't like really sat down and thought about this, but off the top, I would say that's probably like top two, top three finals ever, honestly, maybe number one. Because to have basically all five games, I think just game two was a little more on the lopsided side. But every single game had so much excitement to it. Edge of your seat came down to the final play. Man, it was really epic. And I think for you specifically, I mean, you probably know this, but I'm gonna rattle it off. You set crazy records in this playoff run. You tied the single game total with 42 points. You were the first player ever to score 35 plus in consecutive games and then the first player ever to have 25 plus and 10 plus in three games in a row in the finals specifically. So that was the whole playoffs. In the finals specifically, you kept breaking records. In game one. You became the first WNBA player to have 28, six and three steals. The six is the blocks. Three steals in a playoff in one single game in game three, you set a new record for most points in a single post season with 249. You broke Dee's 15 year old record and you did it in less games. Obviously by the end of the finals, you became the first player in the league to lead a single playoff run in points, rebounds, steals and blocks. You also broke Tamika Ketching's 2009 record and you now hold the record for most steals and blocks in a post season with a total of 48. I mean what, what kind of zone were you in? Can you, can you duplicate this? Was it the flow state? Like what was going on?
- [75:45]
Nafisa Collier
I. Yeah, I mean I can't explain it other than I just felt like I was in the zone. And I think it was just based on every time we gotten to the postseason. You, you know how precious every game is. So I feel like I've just never been that. Just seniorly focused before because I knew anything can happen. Especially in the first rounds where it's the three game series. It's like if they still won, then it goes to like, then it's basically the final four all over again where it's just like you just need to win one game and I know how that ends and I don't want to be in that situation.
- [76:20]
Sue Bird
Right.
- [76:21]
Nafisa Collier
Which I was in the fifth game. Yeah. So I think just going in with that mindset where you know, like you got to do what you got to do to make sure that we win this game. There is no like lack of confidence. I feel like I just went in knowing that I, I don't know, I was just so focused. And then same thing in the, this next round when we played Connecticut, which they were always such a hard game for us. Every time we played them, they're so physical. I knew it was going to be. It was exhausting. That was such a hard series. So you go on with the same thing because I think we lost to Connecticut the year before, like in the playoffs. So you know how good they are. It's a fight every time we play them in the regular season. You cannot go into any game just like as coach cd like say lollygagging, like you have to be so focused and then you know you're just playing great competition. So it's the same story when you get to New York. They're an amazing team. Like you're at the finals. This is the farthest I've ever been I've never been to the finals. And so you just come in with that. Like, it felt like it was our year, too. Like, I thought we were gonna win. And so, yeah, just came in with that mindset.
- [77:32]
Sue Bird
If you told the story of The Lynx in 2024, it felt. And this happens sometimes, I mean, we're just kind of sort of saying how epic this finals was. It felt like you guys had a little destiny on your side. Like, no one was talking about you the same way they were talking about the Liberty. And here you are, you hit the scene, you hit the seat hard and fast. You're breaking records. It felt like, you know, not everything was going your way, of course, but it felt like every time that you could have been counted out, even within singular games, you were, like, finding ways to win. And it's just. You also met another team that was on its own, kind of like path of destiny. They lose in the finals the year before. That's motivated them all year. And so for them, it's, you know, they're bringing the first championship, you know, to New York. So it was like these destinies kind of collided, and everybody knows the end. We know the final play. But outside of that. So excluding that play, when you look back on the series, are there any other moments, plays where, like, you wish you could get them back or maybe you learned something from them similar to what you've kind of talked about your whole career, Whether it was game winners in college, the way you felt in 2019 and 2020, losing in the playoffs. Is there anything that you've taken with you? Not that final play. That one. We've talked about that one enough.
- [78:54]
Nafisa Collier
There's two. The first one was game two. You know, we. It was just so much like we had just had that so exhausting series with Connecticut, and we came to New York two days later, like. Or was the next day or something like that. Something crazy. So short. We were so exhausted. Honestly, the first game was like, just do your best, guys. Like, of course you're going to come out. It's the finals. It's not hard to find motivation, but we're exhausted. We get down and it's like, okay, we're going to lose this game. We got to get him the next one. All of a sudden, it's close. All of a sudden, Courtney hits a. Like a game time three, and with a. With a free throw. It was, like, insane. It was crazy. And we won the game. So we stole one. We just knew we had to steal one while we were in New York. And I was like, okay, we got the one we weren't supposed to get. Let's get the one we are supposed to get in the second one. And we just came out like, I think the exhaustion just hit us like, we were so flat. We did not come with the same just energy and everything that we had in game one. So we lost. That was our first opportunity. If we would have won that game, we would the series. I think also game three in at our place when Sabrina hit that freaking game. Winning shot, same story. If she wouldn't have hit that, like, we. I think we would have won at home. You know, that was just a crazy shot. I mean, obviously, she's a great player. She hadn't been shooting well that game. And then, you know, she got that open shot over Mack like crazy super deep, and she hit it like, those are just gut punchers, you know? So those two, like, situations, it's just like if something just would have went differently in those, you know, we could have won.
- [80:31]
Sue Bird
What's your favorite and least favorite part of what is now becoming this on court rivalry with Stewie, somebody you have a ton of history with?
- [80:42]
Nafisa Collier
Um, my least favorite part, I mean, Sue's a great player, so it's like, you can play the best events you want and she'll still make it. So that is, like, sometimes frustrating because I'm like, oh, that's good, D. I'm right there contesting. It's just like, wow, she'll make it. I think the most fun part is honestly the same thing. Like, same side of a different coin is she's so good. It's like, when you do get a stop, you feel so good. And honestly, I feel like our games are really similar in the way that we think and move. I would say so. For me, I feel like a great defender when I'm playing her because I feel like I know, like, what she's going to do. She's such a great player. Like, we move similarly. It's just she's a great player. Even if you contest, she'll make it. So that's like the best and worst part is I feel like I'm great because I'm right there and I'm contesting, but she'll still, you know, make up a shot.
- [81:31]
Sue Bird
So, yeah, it's like the old good offense beats good defense kind of a vibe. It's funny you bring that up because back to that Twenty20 series for a second, one of my vivid memories is, like, seeing and thinking like, oh, man, she's Got Stewie's timing. You do. It's like you have her timing a little bit, and maybe vice versa, but I definitely remember seeing it in that series. Now, you two started unrivaled. We have talked a ton about Unrivaled on A Touch More. So just one quick question. I'm curious. Are you able to actively be involved in the planning while you're in the WNBA season? Like, what's that juggle like?
- [82:11]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, I mean, yes, because, you know, Alex is basically just, like, right over there on the zooms every time I get home. And so I kind of get to, like, peek in and see what they're doing. It's really fun. I mean, to have so much say in something like, this is. It's awesome. Like, your voice really matters, your opinion, like, the ideas that you have. And so, like, planning for year two has been awesome. Just, you know, all of our hopes and dreams and, like, our what ifs. If you could have anything, what would it be like adding those things? How do we implement it? So that's been really cool. I just learned a lot through that. And to be able to, like, continue on, to know that we had success in year one, that we have even bigger plans for year two, it's just been awesome.
- [82:51]
Sue Bird
Yeah, it is really amazing that you guys are building. I mean, I've. I've expressed this to you before. You're going to look back, and it's just. It's going to be such a. A prideful, like, memory that you're able to literally build a league that got players a ton of exposure, a ton of money, place to play. So, as always, congrats to you on that. Okay. You're injured right now. You did a little of a bop on your ankle. First and foremost, I just want to say you being in the game in the third quarter is not that big of a deal. People were trying to, like, make it a thing. I was like, what do you think? Sadly, you stepped on your teammate's foot, which to me says the old. Like, that could have happened on a curb.
- [83:33]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah.
- [83:33]
Sue Bird
Like, this isn't, you know, but where. Like, how are you feeling in this injury?
- [83:37]
Nafisa Collier
Like, where.
- [83:38]
Sue Bird
Where are we at with it?
- [83:39]
Nafisa Collier
I feel good. Yeah. I mean, just doing rehab every day, trying to stay off my feet, you know, get the swelling down. It sucks. Like, especially, you know, it's the end of the season. The team is clicking so good. I have serious FOMO right now. Like, everyone's having so much fun, and I'm just like, guys, I'm still Here.
- [83:57]
Sue Bird
Is there any, like. Because I agree with you, it's just, it was unlucky. So it just sucked. Sometimes they just suck. Is there any silver lining to it? Like, God, again, 2020, I actually had a bone bruise in the bubble and I didn't play for what felt like forever. And my whole thing was it's a totally different situation than you're in. But I was like, just be ready for the playoffs. Just be ready for the playoffs. And then, you know, it took me like a little bit to get back into it, but I was like, you know, maybe that was the best thing that happened. I was fresh with the playoffs.
- [84:30]
Nafisa Collier
Is there any.
- [84:30]
Sue Bird
Are you finding yet any silver lining to this?
- [84:34]
Nafisa Collier
It sucks. I wish I wasn't in this position, but maybe it's good. My body needed this rest. I really, I believe everything happens for a reason. So maybe I just needed this rest for different parts of my body. And then hopefully I'll just come back really well rested for playoffs and we'll make our push.
- [84:50]
Sue Bird
It can work. There's some people that are like, when it comes to the MVP conversation, saying that your absence could potentially open the door for other people to kind of come in and snag it from you. Does that put any. Are you thinking about that? Does it put any pressure on you to I don't think you would ever come back if not ready, but to maybe get back sooner?
- [85:12]
Nafisa Collier
Not really. I mean, again, I think everything happens for a reason. I've done all that I can. I have no control over how other people play or the pushes that are made, what people are thinking. And that honestly brings me comfort because, like, I could stress over that and sometimes I feel myself thinking about it, but I'm like, I have no control over that and I'm definitely not going to rush myself back so that I can play just for that reason. Like, my goals are so much bigger than mvp. I want to win a championship with my team. And so to do that, like, I'm not going to risk that short term goal so that I. And not be ready for playoffs, you know.
- [85:45]
Sue Bird
You've added Dijonay Carrington via trade. What has she brought to the team?
- [85:51]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, she just brings so much like fire to the team. She is someone that, again, going back to like that Connecticut series. She is someone that you have to pay attention to on the scattering report. She works so hard. She's a great offensive rebounder beginning out, you know, in transition. She's just like, she's a bull. Like, she'll put her head down, go, places. She's just a fighter. So adding her to our team, where our identity is already, like, working hard in defense, adding her on our team is just a perfect fit. Like, she is such a great addition for us. Can't believe we got her, but I'm really happy about it.
- [86:25]
Sue Bird
Yeah, it was a little bit of a steal. And back to our point about Cheryl. Your point about Cheryl, you just knew this is a player that if she's in a spot where a coach kind of allows the best part of her game to come out and really supports her in that, that you'll see like an even, I don't know, like an even better version, maybe like a more efficient version on both sides of the ball if she's put in those. In those spots. So that was my first thought when I saw the trade. There's one player we didn't talk about, and she's, I'm pretty sure, the one player on your roster that has been there from day one with you, basically. Yeah. She was there half the year in 2019. We'll count.
- [87:00]
Nafisa Collier
And Jess. Jess came in with me too.
- [87:03]
Sue Bird
Yeah, she was. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. So both Bridget and Jess, like, just talk about what they. What they give to the franchise, what they've been like playing with them, what it's been like playing.
- [87:12]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, I love playing with both of them. I mean, first of all, with Jess, we just have great chemistry on the court. She's an amazing passer, like one of the best passing bigs that I've ever played with. And we had that connection even from our rookie year. She's the one that always get me on the back door passes. She's a great passer, and both of them are such smart players. They just integrate into the offense so well. Coming from UConn, I love playing with other smart players. They make the game so much easier. So I've always loved playing with them. And it's also great to see. I feel like such an, like an arc in BC's game. Like, I'm just really proud of her as a player. Just going from, you know, like being on the bench not a lot of minutes to sometimes you're playing a full game to not playing a game that's a really hard space to be in. And I saw, like, the effect it had on her, just the way that she was able to push past that, expand her game. She is, like, great at fades and getting into the paint now, creating her own shot a little bit more, not just being a shooter. So it's cool. That through playing with each other for so many years, I get to see her develop in that way. And then, you know, she's a bridesmaid in my wedding, so we've obviously become really close friends as well. So it's been cool.
- [88:15]
Sue Bird
Yeah. And she always does it with a smile on her face.
- [88:18]
Nafisa Collier
She does. She's always smiling.
- [88:20]
Sue Bird
Always smiling. I was like.
- [88:22]
Nafisa Collier
I asked her about that. I'm like, why are you smiling? She smiles when she shoots. She doesn't know she's doing it. Really playing against her.
- [88:29]
Sue Bird
You're like, what does that mean? I don't know how to take this same.
- [88:34]
Nafisa Collier
That's why I asked her. I was like, why are you smiling right now? She didn't know. Yeah.
- [88:38]
Sue Bird
You actually just talked about Bridget and her kind of evolution. What's one part of your game that you think you've mastered but you wish more people would notice?
- [88:48]
Nafisa Collier
I don't know. That's a hard question. I've never gotten that one before that I wish people would notice more. I feel like, my ability to, like, make the right decision. So, like, obviously I think I'm a great, like, offensive player, but I think I'm also not forcing shots. Like, I try to get other people open too, try to use the defense to my advantage if they're doubling. Just making the right reads. And now that you asked me the question, I think about that, but it's not like, I'm like, I wish people knew that I was making the right reads, but I think I do a good job of doing that.
- [89:17]
Sue Bird
Fee. Whether it's been UConn, Minnesota, USA Basketball, you've actually been on a lot of teams where you've had to, like, keep legacies going, right? Like, get let, like, get teams back on top. So I think I already know the answer to this one. I do. Like, this is the last question I ask all my guests. When the season's over, what is success going to look like for you and the team?
- [89:43]
Nafisa Collier
A championship that would be successful? Nothing short. Surprise, surprise, surprise, surprise.
- [89:51]
Sue Bird
Okay, before I let you go, I've got some big 2k news. Once again, NBA 2k 26 is making history. They keep doing this. For the first time ever, WNBA players are going to be part of 2K's fantasy card collecting mode. It's called my team. That means players can now mix and match all their favorite NBA and WNBA legends, which is pretty cool. And current stars to build the ultimate 3 on 3 or 5 on 5 roster. Something we've never seen before. So we're talking dream Pairs like Jalen Brunson and Angel Reese or Lisa Leslie and the Joker. Or maybe even throwing a lob from Paige Becker's to Cooper. Flag some Dallas connections. And just imagine you could have Steph Curry and Caitlin Clark lighting it up as your backcourt dropping four pointers. You're a big fan of those. I know. And torching defenses. The possibilities are endless. This is a monumental moment for the game and for women's basketball for the first time. Like I said, you'll be able to mix it up. So what is your all time NBA and WNBA starting five.
- [90:53]
Nafisa Collier
My all time NBA wnba. I would want to go. Let me get the guys out of the way. Probably MJ and Kobe. I'd want those two on my team. I would put you as my point guard. Oh, I gotta put me on the team.
- [91:10]
Sue Bird
Absolutely.
- [91:11]
Nafisa Collier
And I'm gonna put maybe Lisa. We need a big girl on our team.
- [91:16]
Sue Bird
Okay. That's solid. I like that. Okay. If you could team up, you gotta pick one NBA legend and one WNBA legend for your three on three squad. Who is it?
- [91:28]
Nafisa Collier
Maya. So we can finally play together. I probably should have played her on my 5 on 5 team. I love that. And an NBA player. I mean, I would have picked Kobe. I would pick Kobe and Maya, honestly.
- [91:43]
Sue Bird
They both would be so good in three on three.
- [91:45]
Nafisa Collier
They would be so good. Yeah.
- [91:46]
Sue Bird
So with games like NBA 2K now featuring WNBA players in its most core focused mode, do you think they're shaping how like younger generations learn about basketball legends at the broader story of the sport, including like the women who have helped build it?
- [92:02]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, I think it's bridging the gap. Right. So you have these younger kids playing the game and they get to choose these, you know, pillars that have built the game. People that aren't still watching that they can't still watch on tv. But then now they can play with and see them in that way. So it's like making it live on in that way almost. So I think it's really cool to kind of. For them to learn and to meet them on their level in the way that they do learn.
- [92:24]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Okay, Fee, we've got a little surprise for you. Did you know you're going to be the highest rated WNBA player in the NBA 2K26 at launch.
- [92:36]
Nafisa Collier
I did get a call from Ronnie today, actually.
- [92:38]
Sue Bird
I know, I love the Ronnie call.
- [92:40]
Nafisa Collier
Me too. It's so fun. Awesome. I'm so excited. Yeah.
- [92:43]
Sue Bird
So you're coming in at 98 overall, taking the top spot from last Year's cover athlete, Asia Wilson. How are we feeling about that?
- [92:50]
Nafisa Collier
I asked him why it wasn't a 99, but he said, we'll reevaluate after the season. I was like, okay, if we win or If I get MVP, I 99. He said, maybe. So we'll see.
- [93:00]
Sue Bird
Little does he know you operate well. You operate well with the iron belly. How much does a recognition like this reflect the work you've put in over the past few seasons?
- [93:12]
Nafisa Collier
I think it just shows that. Feels like the world is like seeing the work that I put in, which is really cool. That's definitely not the reason that I do it, but obviously always to be acknowledged for that is a really great feeling.
- [93:25]
Sue Bird
Yeah. And do you play 2K yourself? If so, are you excited to run it back with a 98 version of you?
- [93:33]
Nafisa Collier
I don't play right now, but I feel like this is a great opportunity to start, honestly.
- [93:39]
Sue Bird
Absolutely. At least get Milan there, you know?
- [93:41]
Nafisa Collier
Yeah, yeah. She'll probably make me do a dunk or something. That'd be cool.
- [93:46]
Sue Bird
Thank you so much for all the time. I always really appreciate it. That was Nafisa Collier, everybody. She's already had an incredible career and she's really just getting started. She's also just starting to watch film, which is crazy because I know from experience that can be a legit game changer. You know, I always love hearing about players early days, like how Fee credits some of her footwork. She has great footwork. She credits some of her footwork to her youth coach, Kate Foster, or how she was able to follow the blueprint that Maya Moore really put into place. But I really can't get over the foreshadowing of her building an AAU team as a kid to now being the co founder of a league with unrivaled. Like I said, I knew back in those 2020 playoffs that the Lynx were now Phi's team and that she was about to become a force in this league. But to learn that she also has the ambition to match, that is what really stands out. Phi is starting to create her own blueprint that others can follow. Oh, and by the way, she's doing all of this while being a mom to Mila. And that's it for this week. This episode is a co production of Together and Vox Media. Our producers are Tommy Alter, Jason Gallagher, Richie Bozick, Harry Krinsky, Jess Clarendon and Melanie Carter. Thanks to Nike for their partnership. Sometimes winning is hard, sometimes it's painful. But Nike knows when you step on the court, it's what you came here to do. From the champions to the underdogs, from the top of their class prospects to the little brothers finally dunking on their older brother in the driveway, we all have the same win. Nike provides the best gear, products and stories to get you from the first quarter to the last, even when you feel like you have nothing left to give. Visit nike.com for more information, and be sure to follow Nike on Instagram, TikTok and other social platforms for more great basics. Basketball MOMENTS.
- [95:38]
Nafisa Collier
Tonight's the first date that's.
- [95:40]
Sue Bird
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