← Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Nate Tibbetts on the Mercury’s Finals Run, Coaching in the WNBA vs. NBA, and Diana Turasi's Final Season
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- [00:09]
A
Hey, everybody. Welcome to Bird's Eye View. Coaching runs in my next guest's DNA. From growing up under a legendary high school coach to leading teams across the NBA and now the wnba, he has spent his life developing players and winning games. His attention to detail, wanting to build relationships, and his passion for the women's game and his belief in building championship teams has made him one of the most respected coaches in basketball. And I'm talking about none other than Phoenix Mercury's head coach, Nate Tibbets. But before we dive into the interview, you know what time it is. It's time for Sue's View. Support for this show comes from Chase. If you're a fan of women's sports, you're always looking for ways to get closer to the action. And your Chase card can get you exactly that. With a Chase Card, you can experience more. That means access to pre sales, preferred seating and more savings, unlock benefits that let you skip lines and turn a game you wouldn't miss for the world into a truly unforgettable experience. For more information about how to step into the world of more with Chase experiences, visit chase.com experiences benefits available only to eligible Chase card holders. Deposit and credit card products provided by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA Member, fdic Terms, conditions, restrictions and limitations apply. Amazon has everything for everyone on your list. Like your sister who refuses to accept that she does not have a face for bangs. Get her a lovely hat. Amazon has a huge selection of fashionable gifts, and with holiday deals, you can save big on hats, home decor, even the hottest toys. Grab some barrettes while you're at it for that. Oh, so awkward. Sweep your hair to the side until your bangs grow outstage. Real quick one this week. First off, circling back on the CBA negotiations. Talked about it a little bit last week. I think this week, my, my takeaway is like, man, these leaks are stressing me out. What's up with the leaks? I think I've had enough with the leaks. The main reason is something gets leaked and then two days later there's like more information that maybe like, even proves the leak wrong or proves it right. And, and it's just really hard to follow. And this is coming from somebody who's actually somewhat in the know, right? I of course, know a little bit about what's going on in the CBA negotiations. So I can only imagine what it's like for, you know, fans of the wnba, just people who are paying attention, maybe even some, some players in the league, maybe even some staff members in the league. So it's it's really putting us on a roller coaster here. So I don't know, man. How do we feel about the leaks? I think I'm kind of over them. Next up, I just want to talk about WNBA rebrands. This obviously ties in to our next guest. Phoenix Mercury just unveiled their newest rebrand. They've done some different changes to the logo. Go check it out. There's all kinds of details. They're using Merc now, which I actually really love. Still leaning into the X with the X factor. Like I said, go check it out. But it's kind of brought up this topic of do we like rebrands? You know, sometimes fans and longtime fans don't love it, which I totally get. So, like, where do we fall with, like, nostalgia versus, like, the needing to grow and change? And I. I'm a big believer in the needing to grow and change. I actually remember when the storm changed their colors. Gosh, who knows how many years ago. Let's call it like 10. And you know, we went from like a goldish yellow to like a, like a proper neon ish yellow. I won't bore you. But it changed. And a lot of people were upset. Like, a lot of fans. There were a lot of people who would come up to us and like, kind of be like, oh, we missed the old colors. But first of all, you fast forward 10 plus years, nobody even remembers. And so part of me just really likes rebranding. I think it's good to keep it fresh, good to keep it new. I'm sure there's like, a business to, like, selling more jerseys and that whole thing. But the real reason why I like a rebrand is cause, like, now you can do throwbacks night. Like, if you go to like an old storm logo now versus the new logo, like, now it's a throwback. And I think vintage is like a big part of what we're doing in our society. So I'm all for it anyways. No better way to bring in one of the leaders of this new Mercury generation and rebrand. So let's get to Nate Divots. All right, Nate, like I said, I've been doing my research on you. No, I actually already knew a lot about you. I actually. They did a great job covering you your story, the South Dakota of it all. Becky Hammond, kind of your history during your playoff run this year. But for those that don't know, you grew up in a basketball family, right? Like, your dad is a longtime coach, but not just a coach, actually, like a girls basketball coach. Which I feel like I want to tap into a little bit because that's. That's not necessarily the norm. Right. But first off, as an athlete yourself, right. Like, you had a long career, played college. What was it like growing up a coach's kid?
- [05:17]
B
It was awesome. I mean, I couldn't have dreamed of anything more, to be honest. I mean, I had to look up, getting ready for this. This. This talk, like, how small the town was that. That we grew up in. And I think it was, like, under 500. And literally, like, out our back door through the yard was the side door to the gym, and it was awesome. It was a tile floor, no air conditioning. You know, Like, I couldn't. You know, my brother and I kind of giggle now, having my daughters walk. Walk into the Mercury facility. Like, we thought we were living the dream, and they don't even know what they're walking into. But it was. It was special. It was special. Both my parents were educators, teachers, and. Yeah, my dad was a longtime high school girls and college coach. Yeah. I was the oldest of two, and he was kind of always my role model. He's someone that I. That always looked up to and kind of how this story has gone full circle with me now. Coaching women is pretty cool in our household, for sure.
- [06:26]
A
Yeah. How did he shape you and, like, what parts of your coaching now do you still see him in?
- [06:35]
B
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, we had a lot of the same characteristics. I look a lot like him. He passed years ago, by the way.
- [06:44]
A
If I could say one thing about my research, you guys are twins, for sure.
- [06:51]
B
It is wild. He grew up in De Smet, South Dakota, and that's like Laura Ingalls Wilder and all that stuff. Yeah, super. But I'll go back, and I haven't been there for five, 10 years, and I'll walk down the road, and I'll have an older lady stop me and be like, you are a Tibbetts. Are you related to Fred Tibbets? It's the wildest thing. Yeah. I was getting ready for the Phoenix interview, getting my PowerPoint ready, and my little girls came down one morning and looked at a picture, and they're like, daddy, is that you? And it was my dad. So I think he shaped me in a lot of ways. He was definitely more, like, fiery and had more passion. You either loved him or hated him. They won a lot. So there was a lot of people that probably didn't like him much. But I'm thankful for my mom because she was kind of the rock of the House, she was the one that was super consistent. But just his passion for the game. I mean, he wasn't lucky enough to play in high school. He had bad knees. And so when he took this teaching job in the mid-70s, they basically said, hey, we will hire you, but you need to start girls basketball. Helped start girls basketball in South Dakota. And so he kind of learned on the fly with different clinics and reading books, and he loved it. I mean, we didn't go on family vacations. We went to team camps and summer camps, and that's how we grew up. And it wasn't the boys over here and the girls were here at his camps. We were all together. That's why I think this job excited me so much, is because just the way that I was raised, it is.
- [08:34]
A
And we're going to get into all that. It is somewhat unique in that. And I don't want to be like stereotypical here, so work with me. But you're like a boy who grew up playing basketball, right? Like you played basketball as, you know, as a girl and then a woman who played basketball. A lot of times boys can like, you know, size you up, kind of side eye you at times. Obviously we know all the conversation that has surrounded women's basketball for so long, but here you are, you actually have like, in your household, right? You're getting like a look at someone who is coaching girls. And then I can only imagine all the games you got dragged to. And I say that cause like, it's not always great when you get dragged, but it is like a unique perspective in that you're in the world of basketball as a player, but then you have this experience from watching your dad. So how do you think these moments as a kid shaped how you view, like, women's basketball specifically?
- [09:32]
B
I mean, for me, the way he challenged his teams had open gyms, pick up the competitive spirit of their practices. It would have been if he would have coached boys, girls, it didn't matter, right? To him, it wouldn't have mattered if I was in the drills or not in the drills. Like everything, he was just trying to challenge them each and every day to be better and be at their best and outwork his. Their opponents. And they did that. And you know, he was, he was a coach that loved to be in the gym. He loved to have great players and challenge him to, to be at their best. So there was a lot of things that, that I had learned from him and he would have like, great coaches that you've been. Been around. I think he would have been successful coaching any sport. Right. Just because he was relatable, he got the kids to buy in and then they enjoyed it. And once you start winning that tradition and that excitement just followed.
- [10:34]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So for you, your coaching career started in college. You eventually get to the G League. From there you have like a pretty long NBA career as assistant associate head coach, I believe in Portland. So what made. And we're going to. I want to talk about all that because you were, you were at the bye bye game. Huh? You were at the Dame Lillard Bye bye game. Oh yeah. I have a question about that. I need to understand what.
- [11:03]
B
We had some great moments in Portland with, with Damian Lillard as, as a leader of a franchise and just the man that he is and big shots, big moments we could never get over past the Golden State warriors. But we had some, some really good years in Portland and Dame led a lot of that.
- [11:24]
A
Oh yeah, we're gonna get to the bye bye game. But after this like long career in men's basketball in the NBA specifically, you obviously end up with the Phoenix Mercury. So I'm just curious. I'm sure you get asked this all the time but like why the wnba? Why Phoenix Mercury? Like what made it appealing in like, what is this new chapter?
- [11:45]
B
Yeah, I mean I, I had a great journey in the NBA. It was awesome. I loved it. I could have been an assistant for the next 20 years. I just love being on a staff. As you keep moving up, you kind of the person that connects everyone. And I really enjoyed that. I had had numerous head coaching interviews in the NBA kind of along the way. It didn't happen. And so I had felt like that window had maybe closed for whatever reason. I mean there's just like, like anything you're seeing it in the W, like there's different cycles to the hiring process. And so I didn't know if that was going to come back around to me. I've told people this. I hadn't really thought about the W just because I was in this NBA circle. Right. You had just lived it for 10, 12 years and you're just busy and loving that. And I was getting to start, starting to get ready for a third year in Orlando. And randomly I had a missed call from Nick Uren, our general manager or the general manager for the Mercury. And as you know, the basketball worlds are not that big. Right. And so I knew Nick a little bit, not much. I still remember I was driving home from the facility and I got home to our house in Orlando and randomly about Two years before, I had been at a wedding with Nick and met his wife, and my wife hung out, and I was like, hey, Lindsay, do you remember Nick and Casey? I was like, I have a missed call from. I haven't talked to him for a couple years, but I think he was just named the Mercury GM like, three months ago in the W. And I was like, I wonder if. I wonder if he's calling to see if I'd have interest. And my mom happened to be visiting us in Florida, and she's like, oh, you got to do that. You know, it's like, right away, she's like, yeah. And so I wouldn't be here if Nick wasn't here. I mean, you. You're, you know, Nick just salt of the earth smart.
- [13:52]
A
Yeah.
- [13:54]
B
You know, I was lucky enough to. To get some different NBA interviews to be a head coach. And you're entering a relationship with your general manager. Right. Or that's what you want it to look like. And so I feel like I am so lucky to have Nick next to me. He's super smart. He's caring. He's great with the agents. He's driven. So if Nick wasn't here, I don't know if I would have taken that chance. Obviously, that was the first conversation. And then just seeing the plans that Matt Ishbia had and Josh Bartelstein had for our organization and the facility that they were going to build us, trying to raise the level of not just here, but, like, around the league, and I've just been blown away about the commitment from our ownership, and it was. It was not something that I was, like, looking to do, but I'm. I'm super thankful that they found me.
- [14:56]
A
It's.
- [14:56]
B
It's been an awesome two years.
- [14:58]
A
Yeah. What do you think sealed it? Like, what was. Was there, like, a moment where you're like. Or maybe a conversation?
- [15:05]
B
Well, I had. I had had. I've been. I had had an urge to. To be a head coach again. Right. Obviously, money and contract plays a part in everything. And.
- [15:19]
A
Yeah.
- [15:20]
B
You know, like, I mean, you know, so that. That. That definitely played a part, too. And, you know, in the NBA, there's shelf lives and how long are we going to be in this spot? And I've heard the stories of, you know, the W seasons and, like, where. When I joined, you know, like, it has just taken off from. From all the stories that I've heard.
- [15:43]
A
And came in at a good time. He came in at a good time. Yeah.
- [15:46]
B
Like, I. I feel, like, super blessed for that. You know what I mean? And it's, it's really cool to, to be a part of because like I go back to thinking of like my dad starting their league right, or in, in the mid-70s and like how hard he worked and like to be a part of this is, is pretty cool.
- [16:08]
A
Did anyone try to talk you out of it? I just feel like in coaching and this is more through like my friends experiences. Depending on what your ambition is, and you've kind of already said you weren't sure if NBA head coaching, like maybe that had passed you by, but depending on what your ambition is, you do have to be somewhat strategic, like what level, meaning like college, G league, wnba, NBA, overseas, whatever it is, and then like what position within that level.
- [16:35]
B
So.
- [16:35]
A
So depending on ambition. I know this can skew it, but did anyone try to talk you out of it? Like women's basketball, like, what are you doing, bro?
- [16:43]
B
Yeah, I mean it was kind of a weird time because we were like two or three days away from starting our training camp in Orlando. And so luckily, you know, I'm super close with Jamal Mosley, the head coach of the Magic. And like, obviously he's the first person I go to and. But it's not like I was asking a lot and to be honest, like, I didn't really care what other people thought of the W. This was just going to be my journey with my family and our path. I think some people kind of like open their eyes. Like this is kind of like out of the box obviously within the NBA and then what everyone else said about me coming here. But you know, well, now you can.
- [17:25]
A
Just be like, see what this is. So you do. That's, that's the nice part. You can kind of be like, told you something.
- [17:32]
B
The thing was, is like, luckily I'm not on social media, so I didn't see a lot of the, the comments and the. In the hate and but what was cool was like when I took the job, I called some players, dt, bg, Sophie, and like how welcoming they were obviously when I was hired. The press conference, the, the morning of like I could see how nervous Nick was and I was like, are you sure this is the. I think it was like, you know, what's this going to look like? Right? And obviously you. You and him have had, had had conversations and yeah, and I think just talking to the players, as you know, it's a, it's a players league and they were like so awesome and got to have some coffees early on with DT and you know, she's not going to sugarcoat shit. She's going to be a straight shooter. And, yeah, I mean, I'm lucky that I walked into the situation that it did that had, like, legends here and could show me or give me a feel of what I was stepping into.
- [18:39]
A
Yeah. I mean, I imagine that also brought different pressures, which I definitely want to ask you about, but how much of the WNBA did you know, like, specifically the players? And not just, like, names like the games of the players? Because. And I'm curious because when I. I worked for the Denver Nuggets for just, like, this one season, it was kind of more of like a internship thing. Yeah. And honestly, the first thing, it's like, listen, like, I can say this for both of us. We both know basketball. It doesn't matter. The league doesn't matter. Obviously, different games, different levels are different, but it's a lot of players that I didn't know and I had to, like, quickly learn about. And I don't think it's. There's, like, a shame in not knowing. So I'm really curious, like, what the process for you, even as you were, like, getting closer to the season, you're like, not only do I need to know my players, their games, I need to know the whole league, because now I have to, like, figure out how to play against them.
- [19:36]
B
Yeah. I mean, remember, I get the call from Nick, and he's like, give me 24 to 48 hours if you want to.
- [19:44]
A
If.
- [19:45]
B
If you. If you're interested in this. And I looked at Lindsey, my wife, and was like, hey, we need to watch some W games. Ton. Because, I mean, you know how it is. Like, when you're in the season, you're in the season, and if you go into the playoffs, like, you don't have time to watch a bunch of different stuff. Like, just like. I don't. I don't really. I mean, I watch college now because it's our off season, but I never watched college when I was in the NBA. And so I knew players, but I didn't know systems and coaches and style of play. I am thankful that I was hired when I was, because that whole off season, I really tried to dive into learning the league and learning the players. But it's. It's like, now I watch NBA Games, and for 15 years, I knew everyone from the G League to the NBA, and there are players. I'm like, who is that? Right? And so, yeah, I think it was like, it happens fast. Yeah, it happens quick. Right? And happens fast. One of the Stories, you know, we're four or five games into the season, we go to Seattle, and before shoot around, we're going through a scout, and I'm talking through a player's name. And I mean, I am butchering this name, like. And, you know, it's the first time that I've heard of her, seen her, like, besides film. And the players are just looking at me and just dying, laughing. And I was like, do I have something on my face? Like, what's going on? And they're like, no, this is how you pronounce this name. And so, like, that stuff, that first year, going through it, obviously, you know, DT and bg, those guys weren't going to let anything slide. Tosh Cobb. So, like, we, you know, we. I. They were going to shoot me straight, and I needed it. But you try to learn quick because you don't want to have those kind of situations when you're standing in front of a team.
- [21:32]
A
You know, it's like. It's like, I don't know, new teacher, substitute teacher, vibes, where, yeah, the minute. And I've been in. I've been in locker rooms like that where they mess up a name and you're like, come on, man. But I'd imagine all the players, you just named everybody. That first year also helped you in really, like, real ways. Like, how. How were they able to kind of just, you know, make the learning curve a little quicker?
- [21:54]
B
I'll remember that first group just because, you know, it was. We were envisioning it was going to be DTs last year, and, you know, how can we make it the most competitive group that we can have? And so just my coaching philosophy is, like, big on relationships and getting to know people. I think that's the one thing that I'm excited about, is where the W goes and us hopefully getting a new CBA established, like, we'll be able to have a team for 1, 2, 3, 4 years. And we just haven't been able to do that in these two years, which is just part of the deal. But, like, building relationships and having real conversations with your players, and that was a lot for me is just like learning the history where the league had been. Tell me about the different organizations. I mean, there was just a lot to learn, and having players like that on our team was really just having an extension of the staff, to be quite honest.
- [23:02]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so as you're looking back, like, in this moment, you've just gotten the job. What, like, what did you take from your NBA Career, like into the wnba and then also maybe like, what'd you have to unlearn a little bit? Because again, basketball is basketball, but it's different leagues.
- [23:22]
B
Great question. In the process of, you know, watching film and trying to learn the league, you know, you don't want to unthink what you already know or how you've played, right? I mean, I knew part of the reason that Nick hired me was because I had seen some of the same things that, that he saw and we wanted to play a certain way. Now, obviously, I think all great coaches at the professional level have to adapt, right? They got to be able to coach their talent. And I think that being in the D league, I'm kind of old school. D league, G league, like every. I think that's the toughest league in the world to coach like that helped prepare me for these moments. Just because it was so that it was changing all the time. People going overseas, getting called up, people being sent down. So going through that, I think kind of helped me with this, you know, with the roster sizes. I mean, you know, you have eight players. There was one night, the first year in Indiana, like we had five players in the fourth quarter, right? And luckily we were one of the only ESPN games Indiana didn't have that year. But we had five players going into the fourth and there was a couple early fouls and I went to the officials and like, hey, this could get ugly really, really quick if we have to roll out four, right? And so, you know, the roster sizes, but also like being respectful of the past and how the games and what teams have been successful in the W compared to how or what I've seen in my goals and Nick's goals and how we want to play. So I think there's a balance to it. I do love the W in the fact that I still think coaches are still coaching their teams to individual talent. I think the NBA has become, you know, they've kind of figured out a way to maximize possessions and everything kind of looks alike. Besides the teams that have been around, like the Nuggets, like the Nuggets are going to play through Jokic, which they should, right? Golden State's going to play the way they play, but I really like the way that the W has continued to. Obviously we are evolving, you know, points per possession and pace and all that stuff, but there's still a feel in a 40 minute game that's just different than a 48 minute game.
- [26:04]
A
Support for this show comes from Chase. There's no feeling more electric than seeing a game live when you're surrounded by other fans, the anticipation before kickoff is almost palpable. And then things really get rolling and you get to witness season defining moments in person and join in on the roar of the crowd. It's truly a feeling like no other. Especially if you're a fan of women's sports, you're always looking for ways to get closer to the action and your Chase Card can get you exactly that. With a Chase Card, you can experience more and make those unforgettable moments even better. With access to pre sales, preferred seating and savings. Score prime seats at top venues with your Chase Card and enjoy the best views at your favorite events. Simply tap the Chase Filter or enter your offer code on ticketing sites to enjoy access to the best locations in the house. For more information about how to step into the world of more with Chase experiences, visit chase.com experiences benefits available only to eligible Chase Card holders. Deposit and credit card products provided by JPMorgan Chase NA member FDIC terms, conditions, restrictions and limitations apply Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.
- [27:09]
B
Zoe. This thing weighs a ton. Drew Ski lift with your legs man. Santa.
- [27:13]
A
Santa, did you get my legs?
- [27:14]
B
He's talking to you Bridges. I'm not.
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A
Of course he did. Right Santa?
- [27:19]
B
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B
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A
Visit t mobile.com Support for this show comes from SC Johnson. We've all been there. Choosing not to wear your new white shoes because there's a 10% chance of rain bending awkwardly over the tiny coffee Table to enjoy a sip of your latte not ordering the red sauce. Those feelings of dread are what we call stainxiety. But now you can break free from your stainxiety with Shout's triple acting spray that has stain fighting ingredients to remove a huge variety of stains so you can live in the moment and clean up later. Just breathe and Shout with Shout triple acting spray. Learn more@shoutitout.com so I'm going to circle back on the Damian Lillard bye bye game. Can you compare like that moment to anything you've seen in the WNBA just in terms of like clutch play. You've seen Diana up close and personal. I don't mean to bring it up now. You saw Asia Wilson hit a game winner up close and personal. Obviously the bye bye is just forget it the way that's a whole other thing. But when you think about some of the plays and players you've seen in the NBA now you've been like I said, up close and personal with the wnba. Like is it the same vibes?
- [29:23]
B
Definitely same vibes. I'm just blown away at the competitive spirit of our league. Each and every night having 44 games. I mean you guys used to play 36. Like every night it's on. Right. And every team is trying to win. And I love that about our league. Dame actually had two of them. He closed out a Houston series with 0.9. Came off a double pin. Yeah, that's when he hopped on the scores table. Rip city. Yeah, it was. That was pretty cool. That was like the first time where I was like the roof is coming off this thing and then the bye bye thing. Yeah, I mean like we kind of closed out the Thunders run at that time. They had to break up the team. But like that shot into the series and there's obviously we've all seen game winners. You've hit big game winners. I did research on you just like you probably did me. But you know those, those are just special moments and like great players make great plays and so there's great players in the NBA just like there's great players in the W. And that's why you're in those moments because you got great players like yourself that like put yourself in those positions and like it's not too big for you. And so yeah, it's, it's really cool when you get those elite level players that are franchise changing and I've been really lucky to be around a lot of great ones.
- [30:50]
A
Yeah. God, I just realized you must be excited to have a Portland in the wnba, you're going to get to go back to Moda. I mean, I know it's like. Well, it's the summertime, so actually, you must be really excited.
- [31:02]
B
And in the summer. I'm excited.
- [31:04]
A
Yeah. It's going to be amazing. I was actually at the game. I had just finished, you know, my little stint with Denver. I was in Seattle about to start training camp. And so if I had to guess the year, we're going 2019. And it was like playoffs. It was the triple overtime game.
- [31:24]
B
Okay.
- [31:25]
A
It was like this crazy triple overtime game. Anyways, Motor Center. I'd never heard anything like it. It was. It was unbelievable. Yeah, that place was crazy. And you also coached. I don't know if you know this Jimmy Moran. I grew up with him.
- [31:39]
B
No way. I just called him this morning. I just called him this morning. Yeah, he's at Florida State now.
- [31:47]
A
I grew up with Jimmy. Oh, nice. I didn't even realize that. I've kind of like always, you know, obviously I've always followed his career. We're both from Long Island. He ended up going to St. Dom's which is like a boys powerhouse. I went to Christ the King, so we didn't go to high school together, but yeah, we're both from Long Island. Both from the same town, if you can imagine that.
- [32:07]
B
Jimmy Moran is. Jimmy Moran is. Yeah, he came on in the video room in Portland and elevated to assistant coach. And yeah, our families are. He. We have twins. They have twins. So, yeah, he's. He's got the Long island personality. Can talk smack with anyone.
- [32:28]
A
That's a compliment. I'll take that as a compliment.
- [32:32]
B
But, yeah, he's. That's. That's. That is awesome. I did not know that.
- [32:37]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Small world. Okay, so I do want to ask you just about, you know, entering the WNBA for the first time, you come in with big expectations because you are the highest paid coach on day one. And at this point, it's like the highest in league history. So there's a lot of chatter. So we're just going to call it what it is, particularly around. You know, I think the Mercury dubbed you girl dad. And so, like a lot of people, it's the same conversation that's happening now just around the coaching vacancies. So I'm just curious, like, did that, like, did that feel heavy? And how did you manage the pressure of that moment as you're simultaneously learning a brand new league?
- [33:18]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think I'm just more like respectful to it. We all bring different strengths. And the one thing I always want people to feel comfortable. I wasn't coming here to be the highest paid coach or be the girl dad. Like, I was just excited for an opportunity to coach in a great league. And, you know, it's like, you know, probably like you growing up playing, you know, you didn't see male, female, black, white. You just wanted to hoop. And like, that's kind of how I was raised and how I've kind of gone about my journey. Yeah. So I, I think for me it was just, like I said it, I wasn't on social media. I didn't see a lot of the stuff. Obviously my family did. And you know, it's, it's part of it. Right? Like, there's, there's always love in this world and hate in this world, and sometimes you can see what you want to see. But I, you know, like I said, I, I talk to the players and they were great. And not only our players. Like a week or two after getting the job, we went to New York and there was a USA minicamp. And, you know, walking in the gym, you know, I would say a lot of the execs and coaches might not have been as friendly as I was hoping, but as soon as practice ended, like, the players were awesome. I had two or three players like, hey, coach, like, we are so glad you're in our league. And these aren't players that, you know, I was going to coach and just, Just very welcoming, which, you know, like I said, like, this is. It's a players league. And so I couldn't do a lot to control the narrative. And I wasn't really that interested in it. So for me, it wasn't that heavy. I mean, I understood it, I respected it. I get, I get where it's coming from. But like, there's, to me, like, there's also a standard because of that stuff that, like, there's a level that I gotta stay up to. Right. And because I know if I make a dumb decision or do something wrong, like, it's coming right back. And so I respect it, I understand it, but it didn't, it didn't sit. It didn't keep me up at night, probably. Like it kept Nick up at night just because of, you know, I was hired here to help establish a franchise and a winning culture and stuff like that. And so, like, I just kind of put my eggs in that basket and have kind of just kept trying to keep it moving.
- [36:01]
A
Yeah, I think what happens in this conversation sometimes is like a. There's Like a macro and a micro that happened. And when one kind of narrative gets put on the other, when you're talking about a macro conversation, but looking at it micro and vice versa, it can just get muddy and in, you know, now all the vacancies have been filled presently. So there is this conversation around just like, who's getting the jobs, what they look like, why they're getting them, really. Why aren't former players, black women getting opportunities? It's funny, cause for me personally, and I will get to a question, I'm all for, like, actually different pathways. I think you have to have that. Like, you have to have that. That's how you grow. That's how you get different styles into the game, how it becomes better. There's also, like, you know, the increased money is going to draw different people. And I'm always just like, as long as I didn't talk shit about the WNBA before, come on in. But if you were talking shit about it before and now you're here for the money, that's like a funny little line I draw. But more than anything, I think when you're someone who comes into this league and you respect it, like you just said, you're going to take it, like, seriously. Because I've actually seen coaches come through and you could just tell they didn't, like, not forget understanding it. They didn't even care to learn it enough to understand it. And you could sense that, and I definitely could see it. But when you come in here and you take it seriously, and I think, you know, even though you were a hire, like, without prior WNBA experience, you've certainly proven yourself. And so. And then. And then it's like. And you've seen firsthand, like someone like a Christy Tolliver, right? Like, go for jobs this year and not get them. So like I said, I was going to get to a question. How do you kind of like, when you look at it all, like the macro of it all, like, how do you see it? What do you think, if anything, now that you're in, it can be done for, I guess, like the pipeline of coaching, particularly around former players.
- [37:59]
B
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I don't have all the answers. I mean, I've just got experience. And like I said, I've gone through different cycles in the NBA, right? Like former players, older guys, younger guys, young white assistants, young black assistants. Like, you know, I've had really good conversations with KT and like, she's going to get an opportunity, right? It's just you need to have someone Say yes. And so, you know, I don't. I don't know the proper pipeline or the steps to make. And as much as it hurts going through and being told no, like, you need those experiences to. And some people don't. Don't get them, right. Like, some people are told yeah the first time they interview. And, you know, there was a lot of nights and some off seasons in the NBA where I was. I was told no. And like, I mean, it's. And I wasn't lucky enough to be a former player, but, like, it helped me get to this spot. And I don't know if the coaches that haven't got jobs, if it's not to the W, does it help them get to the college level or whatever the path may be? I think that's the beauty of basketball in life, is everyone's got their own journey. Like, I don't decide who hires and fires coaches. When I came into this league, I was one of three male coaches. And now I don't know what the number is, but I think it's probably closer to half. Right. And. And I don't know if that's good or bad for our league, but like you've kind of pointed out, it's just another opportunity for. To see something different as far as the league goes. And I don't know if that's right, Sue. It's a tough question, you know, but it's real. It's real. And I understand former players frustration, but, you know, I don't know the answer for that, but I do. I am respectful to their frustration.
- [40:08]
A
Absolutely. Okay, we'll take you off the hot seat, put you on a different hot seat. Not only did you have kind of the pressures we're talking about, you had to coach Diana Taurasi in her final year, and I could just imagine what would ended up being her final year. She really, you know, she just really didn't want to tell us, did she? She didn't want to tell us. So it ended up being her final year. And we can always. I mean, listen, we love Dee. We can joke about her all day, but the reality is, I just imagine there was like a good kind of pressure, right? Like wanting this year to go well for her, wanting to put a team together that could win a championship. Like, wanting her to finish, I guess, for lack of a better in the best way possible. What was that like? And really, ultimately, like, what was the experience coaching one of the greats?
- [40:54]
B
Like, well, I'll start there. I was super blessed and lucky to get the Opportunity. I mean, when people ask like who. When I'm done, you know, who are some of the people that, the greats that you got to coach? I mean, she's going to be one of the first ones I mentioned. Right. And for me coming in, I mean, yeah, she's just a straight shooter and I appreciated that about her. I always say, like, I can't imagine seeing her in her prime, like how good she was even at that. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, yeah, I mean just through the retirement stuff and the videos and the highlights and you know, the docu series, all that, like, it's just like I can't imagine having her at 32. Right. And just how good and how driven and how much winning was important because all that was the same. And. But as, you know, like, you know, age, age always wins and I was just blown away but like by how serious she took it. You know, she was the first one in here. She knew what she had to do to get her body ready. And you know, as a young player you just take that stuff for granted. Right. And as you get older, you start to understand her off season preparation. Going into her last year was like watching a, you know, a 10 year vet. Right. Like in her mind she doesn't know age and you know, she doesn't want to give in to that. But like that's, that's real. And yeah, I was, I was super lucky and blessed to, to be able to do that, to go through that. Nick and I were super respectful to it. I think there was pressure collectively on our organization and our team and you know, like that, that stuff is heavy and it wasn't. She was putting more on us. Like we wanted it for her, just like she wanted it.
- [42:55]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's like for, it's actually for. Because I experienced it a little bit in my final year. It's like a, it's a, it's a compliment. It's a great pressure. It's like, oh, I really want to do this right for this person. You can feel it. It's palpable.
- [43:10]
B
Yeah. And so that was, I mean to be able to see like how she would come in and work and how great of high level shooter she was and seeing her results on the AR NOAA system, you know, like, like the, the eliteness of her shot and just the consistency and just thinking the 10,000 hours and all the stuff that she had poured into that game, you just, you wanted it for her and to finish the right way and unfortunately it just didn't it didn't work out that way.
- [43:47]
A
It rarely does. You know, it's such a storybook if you win in your final year. But there was so much good. It was like all the records she was breaking, like, all the celebrations. It really was a. It was a great ending for her. So I know she's lucky that you were a part of that. I know she feels lucky that you were a part of it and it helped usher in. It's kind of this unique thing where you have this player who's had such an impact. Yeah, globally, but also just on this city, on this franchise. And now you kind of have a new generation of leadership. Right. With Nick, with you. So what were you guys. How were you able to use that first year to set the culture, learn from a Diana and a BG and what has been, but then kind of bring your own vibe, your own DNA to that culture? So it wasn't like a proper reset, but I'm sure you wanted to, like, you know, put your own fingerprints on it. What was that like?
- [44:44]
B
Yeah, I mean, there's so many twists and turns in free agency and obviously players you want to. Want to get. And part of, you know, our preparation to have a great year with DT in our last year was going and making the trade, giving up the third pick to get Clea Copper. Right. So, like, Kyle was going to be part of our next team, however. However that looked. But, like, you know, not only to. To move on from one CornerStone player, but two in DT and BG and what they did for this city and the level that they had won at. You know, obviously we have a plan, but things. Things change. Right? And we felt like we got super lucky in some of the stuff that we were able to get done last off season. But as far as, like, establishing a culture and what players want, like, for me, it's like two things. Players always ask is like, number one, do you care? And can I trust you? Right. And like, the care piece is just, to me, like, the relationships and things of that nature and, like, getting to know them. Right. Like, as people. And then the trust is more like, what are you willing to do? What do you know? How hard are you working? Like, when you sit down and watch film, do you know what the hell you're talking about? And so trust and care are the two things because you can't trick a great player.
- [46:13]
A
That's why I'm laughing.
- [46:16]
B
They can spot that in two seconds. And so not that I have all the answers or my staff has all the answers, but, like, you gotta have people that have their stuff together, because if you want your group to trust you, they gotta know that either you have an answer or you're looking for an answer. And these are why you're looking for that answer. And so care and trust were, like, two big things. The kind of players that we wanted and, like, how we wanted to establish our culture. And then, yeah, I mean, the. The pieces kind of changed throughout free agency. It was wild. I mean, everyone was at unrivaled. I mean, all the great players are talking to each other. KT and I are going to Europe. Coming back. Knicks lost 10 pounds. I mean, just the stress of it was just. It was. It was nuts. And I, you know, obviously, this offseason might be even as wild or more wild. Right? And so way, yeah, we'll see what the basketball gods have in store for us.
- [47:23]
A
I mean, I can only imagine you're talking about, you know, waiting to get the call from Satu that she's chosen you. You guys having to pull a trigger. Pull the trigger on a trade, right. That sends Natasha Cloud, ultimately gets you Alyssa Thomas. I mean, all these. Yeah, I can imagine the sleepless nights. But you do end up with, like, I mean, more than a solid, like, a legit big three in SA2KA and AT. You also found, like you said, like, all these complimentary pieces. I've heard you talk about it in the media, how you give all the credit to Nick, because it wasn't really. It wasn't like a super traditional. These weren't, like, super traditional, I guess gets like, who's Monika Koa Makani? Like, I never heard of her, you know, and here she comes in. She ends up being such a solid player for you. I do want to ask you, though, about coaching Sammy Wickham, because that is somebody I have a ton of experience with. So first, actually, first talk about the Big Three, why they compliment each other, and then throw Sammy in that mix and what she brought to it all.
- [48:28]
B
Well, I'll start with Kaliyah, because she was here first. You know, we only had two returning players, Natasha Mack and Kaliyah Copper. And having that was so important, just like my relationship with Kalia and the things that we had been through the first year and talking through stuff with her at the Olympics, and just, you need to have that core, that understanding that we do have each other's back when times get tough. AT was a player that, you know, had been with the organization for 11, 12 years, and, like, for her, I think just the excitement of going Somewhere else. Just she probably can speak for it on herself. And just like the newness, right. Like you were one of the few players that stayed with an organization and things at times can get. Can get stale. Right. Like within. Within an organization.
- [49:33]
A
I feel like the rule is like five, six years, if you like to be somewhere beyond five, six years, something will have had to change because it does. It gets stale for coaches, it gets stale for players. If it's the same group, that's just. That's actually so normal. I don't think a lot of people outside of sports understand how that can happen.
- [49:52]
B
But sorry, you were 100% spot on on that one. And so, yeah, I think just the excitement of at with a new organization and just maybe trying to challenge her and put her in some different situations with the ball. Not just saying, you're a power forward.
- [50:12]
A
Yeah. Running that flat screen.
- [50:14]
B
Yeah. You know, so I think that excited her and us with that possibility. And then Sadu, just her overall talent, size, shooting ability. You know, the unfortunate thing is like we were injured early and I think it helped our role players or players that maybe weren't expecting or league wide maybe to know what we had there. So we didn't have the reps with that core group as much as maybe we wanted to. And then, you know, we had an awesome run in the playoffs. And you know, my thing was, is like we ran into a Vegas team that is one of the all time, maybe great dynasties now winning three out of four. But there were situations within games and quarters, they were like, yo, we've done this so many times. This is normal to us. And where it was new for us collectively as a group. Like we had been through it as individuals, but not when things get tough or go well or, you know, so I thought that our group did an amazing job for a reset. Right. Like you look at your teams and you know, a lot of teams that have won it have had number one picks maybe back to back years. That's kind of been how that has led to success in our league. And for us to put ourselves in position to do that after one year, you know, is a credit to our group, everyone involved. I mean, it was a special, special year. Obviously you don't like losing in the finals and you sure as hell don't like getting swept. And you know, that stings. And I hope that pushes us forward for the future and kind of brings us together. And then Sammy, like when people ask, you know, who the hardest workers are that I've ever been around, you know, she's for sure going to be in my top three no matter what. Male, female, whatever. Like, she was everything that we were hoping for. I would say she gave us more. And not even just between the lines, but just to see her commitment, her joy, her work ethic. Yeah, I mean, it's, she's, I mean, you, you, you've been around her to, to see the struggles early in her career and not make it. For her to be doing what she's doing is a credit to her. And it's like what she has in her heart and her drive, she's just a special person. She's. She's like you. She's going to be special whatever she decides to do. Just because she's, she's just got that, that aura to her, to that vibe, you know, like, she's just, she's gonna outwork it. And Sam, Sammy's great.
- [53:13]
A
Yeah, Sammy's the best. You actually said something I hadn't really thought of, which is, you know, what you guys did last year in like free agency, forming the team you had, obviously having the success you had, it is different. It is different from what we've seen. There's been maybe, maybe a couple teams in WNBA history who have done it. I'm talking like Indiana fever in 2012, I think is the only team that comes to mind who did it without a number one pick and probably without multiple number one picks. So you might even, you might have just been like one of the first team or the first team who had success like purely in free agency and then without, like back to back, like you said, number one picks. Because it's true, it's really had to be. Had to get done in the draft in order to have any chance, like you had to snag these players. And because we didn't have free agency, we weren't going anywhere. All these top picks were staying for, you know, years and years. Such a shame. I'm keeping my eye on that.
- [54:13]
B
There's a reason you're a number one pick. You're most likely a great player. Right. And so like laying that foundation and building over time is kind of been the way that a lot of teams have done it. You know, obviously the, the NBA, the big market teams have the advantage. But like, you know, OKC building through the draft and Denver building through the draft and the small market teams like that. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's not talked about a lot, but I am super proud of us for putting ourselves in that position to go win a title with such turnover that we had, it's pretty impressive.
- [54:53]
A
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B
Why doesn't he grow up?
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A
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- [55:58]
B
President Trump was busy last weekend. Kennedy center honors. It's like sometimes you could say, like, people either have it or you don't. Great sound in this building. Crash the staff holiday party at the White House. Many of you have been with me from the beginning, including the first term, and we love you all, and I just want to wish you a Merry Christmas, a happy New Year, happy Hanukkah. But all Trump wants for Christmas is for Indiana Republicans to pass a new congressional map. Truth Social. If they stupidly say no, vote them out of office. They are not worthy. And I will be there to help. Thank you, Indiana. Trump thinks he can gerrymander his way to victory in the 2026 midterm elections. But some Indiana Republicans aren't buying it. Trump and his MAGA movement have taken over the gop. But in Indiana and beyond, there are some signs of cracks in the coalition. That's coming up on Today. Explained from Vox.
- [56:57]
A
Yeah, yeah, no, it is. Um, all right, so you've brought up the epic playoff run. Um, I mean, you guys, it's funny because on the same note, you were picked to finish. I looked it up real fast. You were picked to finish. Depending on who you looked at, like, seventh, you finished. You were as high as, like, second, I think for. For. I mean, first for a little bit. Second for. For some of the. The season finished fourth, which put you on this crash course with the lynx. Who finished first, which everybody was talking, you know, about for obvious Reason and for good reason. I want to. To just like game two, the comeback, you're down 20, you go to overtime. That was clearly pivotal. It really changed, I think everything for the series. And I'm not saying that it's like it could have been a sweep. Like that's how it felt. They're up 20, game two. It's like it could have been. It goes from a sweep to like now you guys have totally kind of taken control. How the hell did you do that?
- [57:58]
B
Yeah, I mean we've been kind of a. We had bought into the idea that like we had been overlooked and all the things that, you know, coaches try to find or players and new group things like that. Yeah, I mean in a five game series, you go down 02. As you know, it's sitting on the wall. Right. It's really tough. And to go out the way that we were going would have been disappointing, but the way that we responded was impressive. The start of the third quarter, we played them kind of even the first like six minutes and then we just kind of turned up and you know, we started to believe and maybe saw a little self doubt on their side. And just like everything that needed to go right went right into regulation. I draw up a play, I think that they're going to foul. They don't foul. We kind of need to scramble and Sammy hits a great shot. So you got to be lucky and good at the same time. Right. And then you go into overtime and as you know, you never know how those situations are going to go. But our momentum had kind of taken over and the fatigue didn't and we just kept kind of rolling and getting that win changed everyone's eyes, at least on our team, in our organization. And like, we really do have a chance. Right. And so, you know, I think when we were building this team, our mindset was like, how do we have a team that can compete with the two previous teams in the, in the finals, New York and in Minnesota. Right. That's, that's the teams that we ran into. And then like, then you have Vegas. Right. Like those are the three teams that Nick kept bringing up last off season. And crazy how it ended up working out, like unfortunately. Well, we ran into all three, so.
- [60:06]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I don't even mean to skip over the New York series. It just really felt like that game too. Kind of like it did. It changed what could be for you guys and that series itself. Well, first of all, I just want to take you back to. You're like, oh, Yeah, I drop a play and, you know, sometimes you get lucky. What I was really impressed with, and I do think this speaks to like, whatever you're doing there, whether it's culture, coaching, like a specific moment or just the vibe of the team, the composure that you guys showed in that, like, what was like a 15 second scramble was really impressive. It really was. And like, I know it's the players doing, but I just wanted to say that. But yeah, the semis had like literally everything. It was like emotions, momentum, swings. We all know what happened in game three. Close finishes, ejections, suspensions, sadly, an injury. It was quite literally a soap opera. But what came from that? A lot of things came from that. One of the things that came from that was just this conversation about the refereeing. I feel like that, like, really put it, It's. It already been brewing that brought it to a peak. Um, if you can zoom out for a second, I think everybody in the WNBA talks about refereeing at some point. I've talked about on this podcast, like, over and over. What do you, like, what are just some things you would like to see from, like the refereeing in general in our league and like, where do you want to see it going?
- [61:35]
B
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that I was kind of questioned throughout the playoffs because I, I wanted to make it about the game and the players and not the officiating because I feel like that is like the easy. Not the easy, but that's kind of where our conversations go to a lot in our league. And I, I understand it, but I wish it was more about like, the players and the teams, like how good that that level is. And then I'm the guy that gets kicked out of, you know, an elimination game going at the officials. Right. And so, you know, it was, it was a weird journey for me too. Obviously not something that I anticipated or wanted to go down that route. But, you know, I don't think it's changed from when I first came in this league. You know, we just had a GM and coaches meeting with the league. And I'm the same way that a lot of these new coaches are when my, My whole thing is like freedom of movement. Right. I don't know why our league is so physical, but. But it is. And how do we go about cleaning that up? You know, is it early fouls? Is it five fouls versus six fouls? Is it, you know, there's, there's a lot of things that, that need to improve, I think, with where the league is going, you know, We've all talked about it. Like, to me, we. We got to get to a point where the officials are making a step just like everything else that we're not. That's not the number one thing. Right. Like, that's not the fallback or that's not what we talk about. Like, let's talk about how great a year, you know, Alyssa Thomas or whoever. Like, you know, But I understand it. It's a frustration that I can just see in the other coaches that have been in our league and the struggles with it. My hope is that there, there is change. You know, I don't know how that happens, but I do agree with everyone else.
- [63:53]
A
Yeah, no, I agree. It's like, because it's kind of like human nature and for some reason the group think of it all has been to blame. But with that there has been like a history or like historical aspect of this that it's been building and brewing. And you know, for a lot of reasons, this year is kind of when it, when it tipped, which sadly, you know, for those that are coaching playing now, you had to live it, but in a good way. I think the tipping point has arrived and now we can all talk about change. So that's the good thing. And I'm excited to see like what it is.
- [64:28]
B
Yeah. I mean, and it was a talking point last year in the finals too, right? Like with the last possession.
- [64:34]
A
It's been the talking point for forever.
- [64:35]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, you and I could have. Yeah.
- [64:39]
A
Before I let you go, I do want to talk about the final series. Like, first you get there, you know, you're going against a Vegas team which, you know, even though they had the first part of the season that they had, they're obviously still led by the mvp. They're playing extremely well. They're shooting extremely well. They've just survived a series against Indiana. So going into that series, I'm just curious like, what your mindset like and even from like a game planning standpoint, like, how are you approaching that?
- [65:07]
B
Yeah, I mean, they were as hot as any team in the league. Right. The last 20, 28 games, I think they went 25 and three. They were extremely confident. Like I said, I think that internally we were probably a little bit or we were disappointed in like maybe how we played and what the results were. But I also think, like, even for me, like there was a lot of learning experiences. Right. I mean, it's my first finals. It's the first time that the league had allowed a seven game series. So, like being down 20 in a seven game series versus a five game series is, is different. But we, you know, we haven't been through that like collectively as a group. The twists and turns as, you know, like the farther you go in the playoffs, the more storylines and things like that. So yeah, I mean, I think we ran into a group that was playing extremely well. They were connected. There was ultimate belief between the players and the coaches. And you got one of the best coaches, you know, around over there and you know, she's Becky. Becky does an unbelievable job. And that's got a group that had a chip on their shoulder from the year before and you know, they knew what it took and they got it done and we didn't. And like I said, sometimes you gotta be disappointed and feel that pain to understand what it's gonna take to get there. And I hope that's like our driving force.
- [66:47]
A
The listeners of this podcast are probably gonna throw open their mouth a little bit. Cause I say this all the time, they're gonna roll their eyes. But I'm like, I really don't know of many people, and there's outliers, many people, but definitely not many teams who have had any kind of success who didn't fail, like in some, not epic meaning they blew it, but just some devastating way that then becomes the motivator, you know, then becomes what they learn from. It's just kind of how it is. The same goes for the Aces. They had a lot of failures prior to going on this run. So sadly, it's like you don't want to live it, but sadly, like it is a part of this journey. So like, I've never been the coach that's had to walk in the locker room after a season like you've had where there's so much success. But in this one moment, you can't always see it. It's just all you feel is like the loss of it. So as a coach walking in that locker room, like, how do you approach that? And honestly, like, when you look back, what are you most proud of?
- [67:55]
B
Yeah, I'm most proud of is that like you kind of talked about the belief in composure as a group for such a new group that didn't, that didn't give in when it got tough. And so that depending on how this whole off season goes, like, to me that's the motivating factor, right? As you know, stuff is easy when you win, right? And like, you got to go through hard times and not just as an individual, as a group to be able to look at someone and say, hey, we got to be better in this. And how you respond to these situations is extremely important. I always try to be honest and real in those situations. You know, those are probably, to me, some of your toughest talks is just like, you know, being in front of that group because you're feeling it, just like they're feeling it. And, you know, you may want it for them more than you want it for yourself. And seeing that disappointment in your players that we weren't able to get it done. Yeah, those ones are tough because you're trying to sell that it was a great year, but it's hard to hear that at that moment. Right. You understand it. But we want to win a final. That's the goal. And so I don't even know if players really grasp or hold on to that besides just being honest and open and just telling them you're proud of them and in the way that they've competed all year and, you know, represented our organization, because that was real. Right. And so the disappointment of losing, for sure, stung at that moment.
- [69:44]
A
Yeah. And you have, like, I don't know, five minutes to figure out what you're gonna say, like, as you're walking.
- [69:52]
B
I had a little more time. That's the game. I got kicked out. I was sitting in the diet trying to decide what to say or have a beer. I didn't know what the right move.
- [70:02]
A
Was at that time, but the right move, if you're following Phoenix Mercury culture, which is Diana Taurasi's culture, the right move's the beer. The right move is the beer. Anytime she's been ejected, that's the picture I've gotten in the post game locker room. Oh, man, that's funny. I forgot about that.
- [70:20]
B
Yeah. Yeah, that's good to hear.
- [70:23]
A
Funny now. Funny now. I mean, we've talked about it a little bit, and this is my final question. There is no cba, so free agency is like, who the hell knows what it's going to be, when it's going to be? I'm sure you guys are like, game planning and got your boards going, but it is. It's going to be, you know, it's going to be a fire drill once. Once things do get done for you to put together a roster. So as a coach, like, we always hear about players heading into off seasons, what they're going to get better at, what they want to improve on. You know, kind of like you always hear about that from a player standpoint. I've never heard, like, a coach answer that question, like, you're heading into an off season, like, what do you want to get better at?
- [71:10]
B
Yeah, I think for me, it's just like, you're always kind of trying to find different ways to lead, right? Your leadership style. You know, the one thing for me is maybe, like, our staff is kind of playing with this. The AI stuff, right? Like, how. How can this kind of, you know, just. Again, just being curious, right? Yeah.
- [71:33]
A
Yeah, for sure.
- [71:34]
B
Yeah. And I think, like, analytically looking at different leagues, you know, can we better be a better offensive rebounding team and what are the proper angles and stuff like that? My other thing is, like, I don't want people just to do stuff to do it. I don't like wasting people's time. And, like, for me, it's. Until you have your team, it's. It's. It's kind of hard to, like, come up with a plan, right? And, yeah, so that. That, to me is, like, what you're saying. Like, it could be chaos, what. What we have coming our way. Not just for us, everyone across the league, like, is the core still there? Is it one year? Is it two years? All that. All that, like, and luckily, you know, Nick and our front office and our ownership do a great job of it. And, you know, I think that's the beauty maybe, of kind of where our league is headed compared to when you were playing at times, like, the head coaches were the head coaches and the GMs, and, like, they were super, you know, spread super thin. And, like, Nick does a great job in his role. And, like, I have a job to do, right. And so he tells me the things that I need to know and the things that I don't. He just kind of keeps it moving, which is. Which is awesome. But, yeah, I think you're always trying to improve, right? And so, like, style of play and all that, but it does depend on who you have on your team, right? And so watching teams in Europe, you know, trying to steal different sets along the way, college basketball, the NBA, you're always exploring ways to improve.
- [73:15]
A
I mean, I laughed a little bit, but I do love the AI of it all, which really is just a representation of an understanding of. It's really just small margins, especially in a league like the WNBA where it's small. Like, you're just trying to get, like, 1% advantage here, half a percent there, and that could be the difference between winning a finals and losing. Because the reality. And again, I know, like, getting swept does not feel good, but the reality is, like, game one, small Margin. Game three, super small margin. And even two and four had its moments. So, yeah, that totally makes sense. You're just trying to steal percentage points. Well, I wish you the best of luck in the off season. I see you're already rocking the Merc gear. We're liking the rebrand. Shout out to Vince.
- [74:06]
B
Me too. Me too.
- [74:07]
A
Shout out to Vince on that. Yeah. Nate, thank you so much for coming on.
- [74:12]
B
Yeah, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
- [74:17]
A
All right. Hope you guys enjoyed that conversation with Nate. Man, he's really got me thinking over here. Like, is the Phoenix Mercury one of the first teams to not just have success, but to, like, gel as quickly as they did through free agency? I did forget one team, the New York Liberty, who obviously just won a lot of their roster. You know, Stewie, Jonquil Jones and so on, came through free agency. But it really has not been the story for WNBA teams in order to have success, to do it that way. So it might just be the mark of a new era. And of course, I really enjoyed listening to him talk about the new era in Phoenix and kind of joining Nick Uren, the gm, building that relationship and really how important that relationship has become. And if I did a little history lesson here in the conclusion, that was one of the biggest parts of Focus in our CBA negotiations last time around in 2020. We wanted to have the ability to have free agency, yes, for the players to basically have ambition, right. To want to play for a contract, to get offers from different places. But we also knew that one of the byproducts was going to be GMs. The importance of that role and it becoming more important. And, you know, not going to lie, we were kind of like, they got to earn their money too. So it's interesting that it's actually all playing out and we got to hear it from Nate directly. I hope you guys enjoyed. See you next time. This episode is a co production of Together and Vox Media. Our producers are Tommy Alter, Jason Gallagher, Richie Bozek, Jess Clarendon and Melanie Carter. Support for this show comes from Chase. If you're a fan of women's sports, you're always looking for ways to get closer to the action. And your Chase card can get you exactly that. With a Chase card, you can experience more. That means access to presales, preferred seating and more savings unlock benefits that let you skip lines and turn a game you wouldn't miss for the world into a truly unforgettable experience. For more information about how to step into the world of more with chase experiences visit chase.com experiences benefits available only to eligible Chase Card holders. Deposit and credit card products provided by JP Morgan Chase Bank Naomi Member FDIC Terms, conditions, restrictions and limitations apply.
- [76:47]
B
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