Bird’s Eye View with Sue Bird

Episode: Nneka Ogwumike on WNBA CBA Negotiations, Her All-Star Season, and the Seattle Storm
Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Sue Bird
Guest: Nneka Ogwumike

Episode Overview

This special episode of Bird’s Eye View features an in-depth conversation between WNBA legend Sue Bird and current players’ union president Nneka Ogwumike. Recorded live at Tech Futures, their discussion ranges from the ongoing WNBA Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) negotiations to the explosion of technology in women’s athletics, the growth pains of a rising league, and Ogwumike’s reflections from her All-Star 14th season—her first in Seattle after a storied run in Los Angeles.

Bird and Ogwumike’s rapport—built on years of shared activism and competition—makes for candid insight into the realities of being a high-profile athlete, union leader, and role model in today's social media-driven era. The talk also dives into the role of tech on and off the court, what makes Seattle’s hoops culture unique, and Ogwumike’s vision for equity and longevity in the sport.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Social Media & Athlete Identity

[23:27–30:43]

• Nneka’s Media Diet:
  • Favorite podcasts: The Daily, Up First, The Maintenance Phase, The Read, Keke Palmer’s show.
  • Admits to being a "doom scroller" on TikTok: “I am a consumer, I am a scroll, I'm a doom scroller. I’m in the comments, I’m reposting, I’m sharing it to stories…” (25:13, Ogwumike)
• Effect on the WNBA:
  • Social media fuels both engagement and toxicity: “With growth you can have growing pains… But I also remember a time when it didn’t exist… Now our fans are online, and they have community. That engagement is growing exponentially… But then it also comes with trolls, which I think is natural.” (26:06, Ogwumike)
  • Managing public-facing brands and trolling: “As someone who has obviously a public facing brand, I do have a social team…But when it gets to—because I am a consumer of social media—I just report as abuse. If you mess with me.” (27:20, Ogwumike)

2. CBA Negotiations: Process, Pressures, & Progress

[30:43–46:12]

• Balancing Roles: The challenge of being both a high-level player and union president:
  • “I’m always very careful about how I express myself as Nneka, as the president, as a member of this union, and as a player in this league… Leading through empowering others is incredibly important. Listening is very, very important.” (31:06, Ogwumike)
• Speaking Out vs. Building Up the League:
  • Discusses the “dance” between advocating for better conditions and not hurting perceptions of the league: “Do we talk about this publicly? But does that make our league look bad?... Do we now look like all the narratives are telling people to view us, right? Not worth it, they don’t make enough money.” (34:04, Bird)
  • “It is a dance. It's an intricate tango, really…if it's going to make my life easier to be able to go out on the court and do what I need to do, let's talk about it. Now—how we talk about it, who talks about it, when we talk about it...that's where we now engage the collective movement.” (34:04, Ogwumike)
• Recent CBA Public Drama:
  • On Nafeesa Collier’s public challenge to leadership: “What Nafeesa did was an exceptional display of that leadership, of speaking truth to power in a way that she can be heard.” (35:55, Ogwumike)
  • Trust and CBA success: “Trust in these negotiations needs to be built. It needs to be sustained for really any negotiation to be successful.” (37:46, Bird)
  • Adam Silver’s (NBA Commissioner) claim that negotiations are “personal”: “I disagree that it’s personal…It’s business at the end of the day.” (38:07, Ogwumike)
• What Players Want in the Next CBA:
  • Biggest ask: player compensation that grows proportionally with league revenues—"not set numbers," but a fairer share.
  • “We’re seeking simply a salary structure that resembles the portion that the players get that grows with the business…that deal can get done.” (40:05, Ogwumike)
  • Beyond salary: calls for standardization of facilities, enhanced retirement planning, transparent data ownership with wearables, and reform to restrictive rules like “corings.”

3. Negotiation Dynamics & Leadership Lessons

[46:12–52:16]

• Art of Compromise:
  • “Everyone is not going to get everything that they want, but you can walk away content or, I guess, accomplished, if everyone gets a little bit of what they asked for.” (44:35, Ogwumike)
  • Sheds light on emotional moments and behind-the-scenes wins, e.g., negotiating higher max salary late in talks, “never too late in a negotiation.”
• Legacy as President:
  • Why she kept winning union elections: “I came in not knowing nearly as much as I thought I needed to, but I was empowered to believe I could accept this role and do something with it…I really love the aspect of teamwork and engagement.” (50:41, Ogwumike)
  • Wants to demystify and destigmatize leadership roles for future players: “I'm hoping that it's something people want to do now.” (52:54, Ogwumike)

4. On-Court Perspective: Seattle, Facilities & Playing Style

[55:08–59:44]

• Seattle’s Culture: On the city's basketball scene and what makes it unique compared to L.A.:
  • “Seattle basketball is like woven into the community. It’s a way of life. It’s not just, ‘Oh, there's a game, are you going?’ You feel it everywhere you go…the support everywhere you go.” (56:12, Ogwumike)
• Impact of Training Facilities:
  • “The only thing the [Storm] facility is missing, Sue—I'm sorry—is my bedroom...” (58:05, Ogwumike)
  • “When I got to Seattle…I realized…no, this is what I deserve. I'm a professional athlete. I need professional facilities…It is absolutely [extending] my lifetime as a professional.” (58:14, Ogwumike)
• Adapting to Longer Seasons:
  • Jump to 44 games a year—a colossal change in workload, and why facilities and charters aren’t a cure-all: “It is a lot, even with the charters, even with the facility, because we just haven't had enough of a sample size to know long term what it means to play that many games.” (61:32, Ogwumike)

5. Personal Evolution & Getting Better in Year Fourteen

[61:47–64:19]

• Staying Fresh:
  • “One thing that I find that I'm doing is just new ways to maintain the interest, you know, new ways to maintain…keep it new, keep it fresh.” (61:59, Ogwumike)
  • Tech and personalized routines (pilates, kickboxing, customized training plans) keep her invested.
  • Building habits now that she can maintain after her playing career ends: “I would like to incorporate training that I could also continue to do when I'm done.” (63:45, Ogwumike)

6. Technology, Wearables, and Player Data Ownership

[65:02–70:58]

• Wearables & Data:
  • Talks wearables (Catapult, Oura Ring, Whoop): “Catapult…measures your load and when you can push…accommodating for women…But you wouldn’t be able to own your own data…” (67:03, Ogwumike)
  • Player concern: “I want to be able to say, the data’s mine. You can have it. I don’t want to have to request my data.” (68:05, Ogwumike)
• Integrating Tech & Intuition:
  • “When I have my tech and it’s helping me perform…the days when I feel like I should push through and it’s like, hey, yo, you should take it easy, I have now been considering that a little bit more…” (69:56, Ogwumike)
  • “That’s the grace I give myself…maybe we just do something else instead of just canceling everything altogether. Or worse yet, pushing through something that you shouldn’t have to.” (70:58, Ogwumike)
• Tech Changing Play:
  • How shot tracking changes approach: “I’ve seen my map chart. And I will say though, that I’m the type that’s like, okay, my percentage is low from there, I’m gonna shoot even more.” (71:16, Ogwumike)

7. Future Tech: VR, AI, and Fan Experience

[72:05–77:49]

• On AI in Basketball:
  • Ogwumike isn’t using AI to analyze her own game, but sees the possibilities for contracts and scouting: “I understand that these are all probably possibilities and probabilities.” (73:00, Ogwumike)
• VR and Fandom:
  • Sue Bird describes trying VR basketball viewing: “You’re watching the game. I was blown away by it…fans are going to be able to experience the game in a way they never could before.” (73:10, Bird)
• What She’d Want Fans to Know:
  • The intensity and complexity of a real-time huddle: “I don't think people understand that you have shootaround and you have all these different things that you do. When we get to the game, we get to the game two hours beforehand…” (74:33, Ogwumike)
  • Bird adds: “I think if there was one thing that I’d want fans to know, it’s how difficult it is to be in a timeout, in an intense moment…how difficult that is.” (76:30, Bird)
• Tech & Representation:
  • “We owe it to the amplification of who we naturally are through tech…what I want to leave with everyone today is that we have to also continue to see representation of that tech that is helping us grow.” (78:12, Ogwumike)

8. Game Segment: ‘Who Said It?’

[79:51–82:59]

• Bird challenges Ogwumike to identify WNBA quotes—highlights the culture and humor inside the league.
  • Key lines:
    • “If I try to force it, it’s like forcing a fart. All you get is shit.” (Asia Wilson, 82:06)
    • “I gotta make sure I don’t drop down to a Target bag. I gotta stay in my Birkin.” (Courtney Williams, 80:28)
    • “I’ll see you in the lobby later.” (Diana Taurasi in the bubble, 80:15)
• Ogwumike: “No mustard on my hot dog. None of those quotes were mine…Mine are the crib.”

9. Memorable Moments from Negotiation Calls

[83:23–86:02]

• Bird and Ogwumike recount the tension and breakthroughs of the 2020 CBA and bubble season, including fighting for full pay and social justice activism.
  • “Someone was basically saying, well, if we ask for X, what if they give it to us? And Nneka went off mute and went, ‘Then you get what you want.’” (83:23, Bird)
  • “When we had to talk to the board of governors like that, to me, that was the hardest call I’ve ever had to make, honestly.” (84:07, Ogwumike)
  • On their victorious pitch: “Their response—after we went through our whole spiel—they were like, ‘Okay.’” (85:28, Ogwumike)

Notable Quotes

• On Social Media's Double-Edged Sword:
  “With growth you can have growing pains… But I also remember a time when it didn’t exist…Now our fans are online, and they have community. That engagement is growing exponentially. But then it also comes with trolls, which I think is natural.”
  — Nneka Ogwumike (26:06)

• On Player Compensation and New CBA:
  “We’re seeking simply a salary structure that resembles the portion that the players get that grows with the business.”
  — Nneka Ogwumike (40:05)

• On the Power of Speaking Up:
  “Keeping quiet is not always the way to go, but leading through empowering others is incredibly important. I've done a lot of listening.”
  — Nneka Ogwumike (31:06)

• On Facilities and Player Health:
  “I realized...no, this is what I deserve. I'm a professional athlete. I need professional facilities.”
  — Nneka Ogwumike (58:14)

• On Legacy as Union President:
  “I came in not knowing nearly as much as I thought I needed to, but I was empowered to believe that I could accept this role and do something with it.”
  — Nneka Ogwumike (50:41)

• On the Pressure and Power of Negotiations:
  “When you know something is best because you’re the one who has the experience and the knowledge of what’s actually happening…it’s never too late in a negotiation.”
  — Sue Bird (47:21)

• On Technology and Autonomy:
  “I want to be able to say, ‘the data’s mine, you can have it.’ I don’t want to have to request my data.”
  — Nneka Ogwumike (68:05)

• On Keeping the Sport the ‘Main Thing’:
  "These types of [parasocial] relationships are steering away from the main thing, which is the game... hopefully maintain that engagement that still keeps the sport the main thing.”
  — Nneka Ogwumike (29:29)

Important Timestamps

• [23:27] — Start of Nneka interview: social media habits and tech engagement
• [26:06]–[29:03] — On social media's impact and managing negativity
• [30:43] — CBA negotiation philosophies
• [35:55] — Nafeesa Collier, leadership, and speaking out
• [40:05] — Players' CBA priorities (revenue share, facilities, retirement)
• [44:35] — The art of compromise in union leadership
• [50:41] — On legacy and president’s responsibilities
• [56:12] — Seattle basketball culture
• [58:14] — Impact of elite facilities
• [61:47] — Staying fresh and healthy heading into Year 15
• [65:02]–[70:58] — Tech, data ownership, and integrating performance feedback
• [73:00] — On AI, VR, and the future of the fan experience
• [79:51]–[82:59] — ‘Who Said It?’ WNBA quote game
• [83:23]–[86:02] — Most memorable negotiation call, player empowerment

Final Thoughts

This episode is a master class in athlete agency, union leadership, and the ongoing quest for fairness and sustainability in women’s sports. Ogwumike’s candor on topics from negotiating with league execs to embracing cutting-edge performance tech gives fans unprecedented access to the pressures and potential of the WNBA’s next era. The blend of technical talk, humor, and first-person storytelling—punctuated by memorable league moments and a rapid-fire quote game—make this episode a must-listen for anyone invested in the future of professional women’s basketball.

For full context, find this episode and more on the Bird’s Eye View feed and YouTube. New episodes drop every Friday.