← Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Nneka Ogwumike on WNBA CBA Negotiations, Her All-Star Season, and the Seattle Storm
01:22:54
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- [00:00]
A
Are you gonna give us that tie place? Is now the time? You still keeping a secret? She came on our show. Okay, we'll skip it. We'll skip it. She came on our show a couple months ago and was like, oh, there's a tie spot. But I'm not gonna say it out loud. I don't want anyone to know about it.
- [00:12]
B
I don't gatekeep a lot of stuff, but I.
- [00:13]
A
This is the one. It's all right. Today told me last week.
- [00:17]
B
What?
- [00:26]
A
Hey everybody. Welcome back to Bird's Eye View. This week we have a special episode. I was at Tech Futures this past week. I was able to interview Neka Ogwumake. So this week's show is a live show, but you know the drill. Before we get to that, it's a great interview. By the way, we've got a Sue's View. Support for Bird's Eye View comes from the all electric Toyota BZ. What would convince you to go electric? An EPA estimated driving range rating up to 314 miles. Versatile charging capability, compatible with most public chargers. Available premium JBL9 speaker audio. With the all electric Toyota BZ you can get all of the above and more available all wheel drive models with X mode and grip control give you enhanced traction. And the BZ's portable dual voltage charging cable gives you flexibility to power up the way you want. The all electric BZ OneDrive can change your mind. Learn more at toyota.com BZ Toyota let's go places. I'm really pleased that the Jane Goodall Collection with Brilliant Earth connects to my vision of how we can live in harmony with nature. Every choice we make ripples outward and you can choose what sort of impact you make. I know that the things I've worked for all my life will carry on. Discover the Jane Goodall Collection exclusively at Brilliant Earth. Tommy, what we got this week?
- [01:57]
C
So we're taping this Friday morning, 9:00am Eastern. Friday morning. Game four is tonight. I think we need to talk. The shot, I don't know if it has a nickname yet because it's only been 36 hours.
- [02:08]
A
The 2.2. The 2.2.
- [02:11]
B
We'll talk.
- [02:11]
C
We'll talk tonight as well. The first thing I wanted to start with though before we get to Asia on the aces front is the three point shooting. So they've had, they had and Dana did in game one, Jackie didn't game two, Jewel did in game three. They've had these kind of like extended individual runs that have really, you know, set them up well in all Three of these games. Jewel, I saw her press conference after game three and she said it was the. She like credited their pace. Is there, Is there a thing in, Is there something in common? Do you think that this is like making this happen besides just good shot making?
- [02:47]
A
I mean. Yes and no. I think some of it, particularly Jules in game three, that was just shot making and that was just Jewel's ability. I actually know this from playing with her. Jewel loves to play in Phoenix. I need someone to like, crunch these numbers. Jewel always plays well in Phoenix. The minute she hit her first shot, it's literally what I said to Megan. I was like, oh. I'm like, she likes this building. Of course, some of it is how their team plays. They're looking for threes. They have great three point shooters, but I think that's always what's. What's been special about Vegas is their individual play. They just have people that sometimes when they're in a zone like that, you can't stop them. It doesn't matter what defense you throw. It doesn't matter what scheme you try to. Try to put there. And I think that's what we've, what we've seen the whole series and then what we saw in Joel.
- [03:34]
C
So it's interesting because when I was kind of looking into this after the fact and I, we talk, we talked about their, the winning streak during the regular season a lot, but I don't know if we talked about this particular element of it. It was good. It was directly correlated to three point shooting. I mean, obviously Asia was great the whole year, but they were sort of below average at the beginning of the year. And then when they were on the streak, they were shooting it really well. It sounds kind of obvious, but I guess my question would be if you're like Phoenix and you're looking at like an adjustment, is it just forced them off the three point line and be like, beat us somewhere, like do anything, but beat us this way.
- [04:08]
A
I mean, yeah, that's. This is what's hard. So when they shoot the ball the way they're shooting it, it's just the threat. When you're a guard and you're. Or any perimeter player for that matter, and you're playing against. Because they go. Because Vegas goes small so much. So anytime you're guarding somebody who has the ability to shoot three and you're playing against Vegas. So this is what you're thinking. You're thinking, okay, I have a threat here that if I get too far off Jewel, too far off Jackie, too Far off Chelsea, if we're scrambling, whatever it is, you feel the threat inside your body. You're like, I gotta get out there, I gotta get out there. You're simultaneously like, okay, Asia Wilson has the ball, right? She's going, she has. Listen, from the start of this series, we all knew that this was gonna be tough for Phoenix. They don't have the same type of one on one matchup that Indiana had in Aaliyah Boston that Seattle had in Dom Mulango, but also Neko Gumake. They don't have a lot of S. So you knew this was going to be an issue. So the fact that they're hitting threes on top of Asia being such an issue, that threat, I'll go back to that threat. It's really hard. You're just in a constant state of picking your poison. But to your point, I mean, at some point do you just say to yourself, threes are worth more than twos and I'm just going to like try to run them off? I don't think running a team off that has an inside player that draws so much attention, you really can't let her go one on one. So then when you help, she's kicking. Running off is not that easy. At some point you're running out of people to run people like you're running out of defenders. You know they're just going to find the shooter. So it really is tough. I would try and this is what I love about Becky. So something that people I don't think talk about with Becky enough is the junk she'll throw out there. She'll throw out a zone, she'll throw out a box in one. And these are things you just don't see in the course of a WNBA season. So for a second, at the very least a Second, sometimes more 8 makes the other team go, oh, what's this? And I think Phoenix has to try to find a way to make Vegas go, ooh, what's this? You know, is it. I was really unimpressed by their ability to double and scramble. Like there has to be something. But Vegas has a lot of problems. They create a lot of issues out there.
- [06:20]
C
So was there anything in the third and fourth quarter in game three that you felt like they did effectively to do what you're describing and to put themselves back in that game?
- [06:32]
A
I don't know that it was their defense as much as it was. I thought a couple things stuck out. I thought they found mismatches offensively. So Dewana Bonner started attacking. Especially when Gustafson. Megan Gustafson came in the game, DB started going one on one a little bit. They started exploiting mismatches where they had them. Whether it was with at a couple times KA Kali Copper started to get aggressive that, I mean, I think everybody was wanting more from her in the first half. So even though Phoenix coming into this, I think, you know, not. I think I know I had even said, oh, if they can figure out their defense, it fuels their offense. They actually were finding ways offensively to get back into the game that didn't. Wasn't predicated on defense. The other thing they did I thought really well, particularly Dewana Bonner, was offensive rebound. They gave up way too many on the other side, by the way. Some of they had. Phoenix had in the first half especially, and then even in the third, sometimes in the fourth, just so many unforced errors, just giving up O boards, turning the ball over things that the turnover is definitely in their control. Their shot selection in the first half in their control. Some of the O boards, you know, Vegas did a good job, so sometimes you have to live with those. But I just thought there were some controllables that they finally figured out later in the game and then got some offensive, offensive output from people.
- [07:55]
C
You have such a small margin for error against a team like this.
- [07:58]
A
Yeah, this is not easy. Yeah. Everything I'm saying, it's like Vegas puts you. You know, I didn't mean to reference. As if Vegas has problems, they create problems. Vegas puts you in so many dilemmas because of their individual. Each individual poses a problem. There's no weakest link.
- [08:17]
C
Do you think that. I mean, I'm sort of. We're taping this before game four, you know, trying to think of different ways that Phoenix can get back in the series. They, they. They announced that Sadu is going to be out for game four with the concussion. And so I'm just wondering, as great as she is, you know, in as much of a matchup problem as she is in so many different ways, I'm wondering if. If there's a different style that is built around KA that actually could. Like if that. If, if that offensive run we got in in three and four is a thing which is replicable for them just to kind of run and gun a little bit more to get the aces on their heels. Cause it sounds. Basically what you're saying is it's like if you let them get comfortable, like they've been comfortable in these first three games, they're just going to pick you apart either With Asia, who's unguardable, one on one or one of these shooters are going to get hot.
- [09:09]
A
Yeah. I mean I'll start by saying so much credit to Vegas. I thought the way they came out in game three was you couldn't have asked for anything more from that team. They were aggressive, they took, you know, an early lead, they threw the first punch. And the reason why that was so important is because obviously there's actually interestingly enough, even though Phoenix lost the first two games, there's a lot of momentum going into game three. Cause it's your home court. That crowd was amazing. You could see it, you could feel it on tv. So them starting the way they started, but especially with the three point shooting set the tone for the whole game. All right, so to your question, does SATU being out. Yeah. So sometimes you never. Obviously you want to be at full strength, but sometimes when a player goes out it does waken other people up because when that player's on the court, you tend to rely on them or maybe you kind of like take a step back to let them do their thing. So is there opportunity here? Yeah, of course. Anytime somebody goes down, it's opportunity. Do you love it? No. You'd rather have satu, but maybe Kyle gets going. I think this might open up. This might open things up for like a variety of players. Maybe Monique Akomakani gets a little bit more, maybe Sammy gets a little bit more going. Right. Like maybe other players. But it's, it's an uphill battle. I mean honestly, now that I'm sitting here, I'm wondering if Phoenix has any kind of like press package. Right. Like anything where they can start pressing speed the game up. Vegas doesn't go super deep. So that's what I, you know, that's.
- [10:38]
C
What I wonder You. Yeah, you've talked about this all, all playoffs with these different matchups in terms of mucking it up and just get and get doing things. And I feel like the one thing, the one thing I saw in three and four or in, in the third and fourth quarter the other night was they were able to, they were. Phoenix was hitting a lot of tough shots, but they were also able to get them a little bit out of sorts just by running, you know. And it was like what got Phoenix to the finals was a different thing than what's going to happen allow them to beat this particular team. Cuz they're not necessarily going to out physical them in the same way.
- [11:08]
A
Right.
- [11:09]
C
And so maybe if it is just like. Cause the engine like Just go, you know, just go. Just run it over. Yeah, yeah.
- [11:16]
A
I mean, the way Vegas is just like straight up not guarding at. You could see in the first half. I mean, anyone who's played, and I mean, I'm a. I. I would say I'm like a good shooter, maybe even great. Some might say great. I think great.
- [11:29]
C
I think great.
- [11:30]
A
We can call go great.
- [11:32]
C
You're humble, but I think great is fair.
- [11:35]
A
I've played in games where clearly the team scouting report was. Cause, you know, I played with Lauren Jackson, I played with Brandon Stewart where it was like, man, we're just gonna. We're just gonna go under, pick and rolls and see what happens. Cause we don't wanna be in any situation where Sue's able to pull numbers or where we're leaving Stewie or Lauren Jackson open. So I've definitely seen some pick and roll coverage where it goes under, where they go under. And for a second, it's kind of like you're a little embarrassed. It's a little like jarring. And that's what I saw on at. In the, in the, in the first quarter, like just blatantly not being guarded. So she's got to figure out a way to. And she figured it out. As the game went on, she got more aggressive, especially in the second quarter. But maybe she needs to be the one defensively that's just all over the place, doubling, doing weird things, making them think, and then hopefully that can get her going in transition and get their running game going even more.
- [12:30]
C
So before we get to the interview, can you put Asia's shot into perspective in your opinion about first person, person who's had as incredible a career across the board in every possible way as she has, where this, you know what the meaning of this was besides just winning the team this game the other.
- [12:49]
A
Night, just like on the court, one drive can change your mind on how a game is won. This play of the game is presented by the all electric Toyota Beezy. To me, that shot was. God, how do I even articulate, like a stamp of some sort. It wasn't just a shot. It was a team that at one point wasn't even in the playoffs. I mean, we're talking pre All Star breaks. I'm not trying to get crazy here, but a team that was not doing well, a team that was, you know, in the eighth, ninth spot, slowly started climbing up on Asia Wilson's back. So the story of the whole season, the story of the Vegas Aces and their run, the story of Asia Wilson and what she did to go on that game. You know, that 16, 17 game winning streak, the story of them getting to the finals, that shot stamped it. Because, listen, it was a tie game, so if she misses, it's not like the game was over. But if Phoenix wins game three.
- [13:51]
B
You.
- [13:51]
A
Don'T know what's going to happen. And now I feel like everyone's comeback.
- [13:54]
C
Like that with a comeback like that. Yeah.
- [13:56]
A
And that's exactly what happened when Phoenix played Minnesota and they just. They stole the momentum of the series and they ended up winning. So you just don't know what happens to the emotion of the series for either team if Asia doesn't just go, no, this game's over. And that's what that moment was. And so that's why I think it's bigger than just a game three game winner. It. It's just.
- [14:18]
B
It had.
- [14:18]
A
It spoke so much more. I don't like to do Mount Rushmores with current players. It kind of feels like you should wait till they retire, but, man, she's making it hard.
- [14:28]
B
Well, that's.
- [14:29]
C
That's also just going to be a shot that will. No matter. She'll be on everyone's list when she's done playing. And this will be a shot that will be part of the. Part of the lexicon if you have a game winner like that in the.
- [14:39]
A
Finals, you know, by the way, can we just highlight for a second the level. The degree of difficulty? The degree of difficulty. I'm not even. Okay. Was there two people on her? Yes. Was it like this turnaround? Yes. Look at the way her legs are scissored. The way her legs are scissored speaks to being off balance, but actually speaks to her ability to. In midair as she's turning and shooting to, like, find her balance. It's just. It's not an easy shot. It's not an easy shot. She makes shots like that look super easy, and they're not.
- [15:12]
C
What also was interesting was everybody in the. In everyone in the world, certainly everyone in the arena, everyone in the world knew that. Knew the ball was going to her and knew something like this was coming, and she did it anyway, which is. It feels like it's ultimately this. The sort of, you know, the largest sign of greatness. It wasn't a. It wasn't a broken play. It wasn't. It wasn't even like the. The before they called a timeout. Yeah. It wasn't like they were just running down the court and she. She got herself into a mismatch and was able to exploit Somebody and win it at the end. This was like, we have three and a half seconds left. The ball is going to Asia. You know, the ball is going to Asia. She's either going to shoot it or she's going to pass it out. And she basically. They basically showed two at her, and I don't know if they could have defended it any differently. You know, they just. She just is better.
- [15:59]
A
Hindsight. Hindsight. I think hindsight's 20 20. The thing with Asia is Asia, while being really skilled and having, for her, like, size and strength, having a lot of finesse. Some of her shots she plays with force, but then there's always a little bit of finesse. Right. Sometimes the way she finishes at the rim, a little bit of finesse. Her turnaround jumpers have finesse on them, but there is, like I said, a force to how she plays. You can't let her catch it. Easier said than done. Easier said than done. You can't let her catch it where she can rip and go. You have to make her catch it further out, because then she lose. She has to get to a spot as opposed to catching it where she did. She's already in her spot. Now we're talking one dribble turnaround as opposed to, like, two, three dribbles. So that. That would have been my only critique. But listen, you don't think DB Was trying. You don't think they were all trying. Like, she's getting screen set for her. So I think there could have been ways where maybe you. I don't know. It's hindsight. It's so hindsight. Like, do you invert the screen, which means put a guard on Asia to start a post player somewhere else, and then when they go to screen, you switch. But you can't predict that necessarily. So it's tough to say, do you just double her and make anybody else shoot it? Did you see the picture where Asia's, like, shooting it at 2.2 and Megan Gustafson's, like, ready on the perimeter?
- [17:20]
B
Yeah, I was gonna say.
- [17:21]
C
I mean, so they. You mean, like, double on the inbound? Because they did throw. They did basically throw two at her on the catch. But you're definitely right about them letting her get. Make the catch on the inbound, getting to her spot right away, rather than. Rather than sort of like, figuring out a way to adjust her off of it.
- [17:39]
A
Yeah, listen, I haven't rewatched it in any real way. I only watched it in real time. And so I would have to go like. Like, really look but what I'm, what I'm saying is do you, knowing your roster, knowing what you are comfortable with as a team, do you ways to put your players in a position where they can switch onto Asia? So when somebody sets a screen and Asia's coming off it, if you switch, you can, you have a better chance of denying than if you're fighting through the screen and then. Yeah, I, I mean do you just double her before she dribbles? Do you just run something? Do you let Megan Gustafson shoot that three and you live with it as opposed to your, their best player shooting it? These are questions that again, hindsight's 20 20. This is not. I don't want this to sound critical because that just feels, that always feels fucked up to me when people are like, you should have done well. Yeah, I would have done it. She made it. Had she missed it, you'd be applauding me, you know. So it's not about critique, it's just about thinking, thinking it through and wondering, you know, what could have been done different for sure.
- [18:41]
C
And denying is. Denying is easier said than done with anybody. But especially with someone like Asia, like if she wants to touch the ball, she's going to touch the ball. Now maybe you could have said she touched the ball at a different spot. Sure. But it does also feel like semantics because like we're saying the same thing. Like that's still a tough ass shot. It wasn't like you walked into a six footer. You know, that's a, that's, that was just.
- [19:01]
A
Yeah, I think with five seconds what I maybe would have done, I can't. It's not even fair to say this. I don't know if I actually would have done it with five seconds left. Do you double her on a catch as opposed to letting her dribble? And then so at does double her at the exact right moment, right on the spin. When somebody's spinning, they're blind for a second. You gotta come get em when they can't see you. So she did it perfectly. And because she made it, we're over here talking about should she have done it sooner? It's just like she made a great shot. Sadly, you have to live with it. It really is a bummer for the Mercury. It's a bummer for the series. I think all of us as fans wanted. Just because it's the first year of a seven game series, I wanted seven games. And now we're looking at a sweep.
- [19:46]
C
Yep.
- [19:46]
A
Okay. So like Tommy said, tonight's game four we'll all be watching Sea of Vegas ticket home. Now it's time for my interview with neca. Hope you enjoy Support for Bird's Eye View comes from the all Electric Toyota bz. You know you've been thinking about going electric. You've searched the Internet, admired friends EVs, but you've been hesitant to take the plunge. The all electric Toyota BZ might just be the electric vehicle you've been waiting for. The Toyota BZ is a battery electric vehicle designed to do more. The BZ's advanced all electric powertrain features an EPA estimated driving range rating up to 314 miles. All wheel drive models have 338 horsepower and near immediate torque. You can feel and you can charge the way you want to. BZ is compatible with most public chargers, but the features don't stop there. Regenerative Braking Paddle shifters let you dial in the level of regenerative braking to suit your personal Preference. Wireless Apple CarPlay, Android Auto and SiriusXM seamlessly connect you to all your devices and an available Panoramic View moonroof lets you take in the scenery wherever you roam. Did I mention its striking design and sleek, powerful lines go from skeptic to electric in the all electric Toyota BZ. The all electric BZ1 drive can change your mind. Learn more at toyota.com BZ Toyota Let's Go Places. Support for this show comes from DraftKings. Months of work, countless plays, one final stage. The WNBA Finals are here. Bet on the championship showdown with DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the WNBA. DraftKings puts you right in the finals action with player props, live betting parlays, odd boosts and more. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use Code Bird. That's Code bird to turn five bucks into 200 in bonus bets. If your bet wins in partnership with DraftKings, the Crown is yours.
- [21:36]
B
Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler in New York. Call 877-8-HOPE and WYER. Text hopeny 467-369 In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-78-977 or ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void In Ontario, bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms on responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co Audio.
- [22:05]
A
I'm really pleased that the Jane Goodall Collection with Brilliant Earth connects to my vision of how we can live in harmony with the nature. Every choice we make ripples outward, and you can choose what sort of impact you make. I know that the things I've worked for all my life will carry on. Discover the Jane Goodall Collection, exclusively at Brilliant Earth. I'm Beth Gerstein, co founder and CEO of Brilliant Earth. Our partnership with Dr. Jane Goodall has always been deeply personal, reflecting our shared mission to protect people and the planet for future generations. For a limited time, in honor of Jane's life and legacy, 100% of net proceeds from the Jane Goodall Collection will support the Jane Goodall Legacy Foundation Fund's critical conservation work. Hey, Neka.
- [23:03]
B
Hi.
- [23:03]
A
Welcome to the show.
- [23:05]
B
Thank you for having me. Hello, everybody.
- [23:08]
A
Yeah, thank you for coming on. We have so much to get to. So much current news in the wnba. Obviously, CBA negotiations are ongoing, but today's show is a bit of like a. Like a tech collab. So we're also going to talk about women's sports and tech and where they collide and where you sit at all of that. I'm going to wait for this helicopter. It's a chopper.
- [23:34]
B
Pew, pew, pew. Chappa Sa.
- [23:38]
A
So let's get started with a quick question. I have a quick question for you.
- [23:43]
B
Let's do it.
- [23:43]
A
What is in Neca's phone? What's Neca got going on in her phone right now? What do you want? Let me hear. What is your, like, what's your top podcast?
- [23:52]
B
Okay, top podcast. Let's do it. Definitely the daily and up first.
- [24:00]
A
That's a good one.
- [24:01]
B
The maintenance phase. The read. The read. The read. The read for sure. And Keke Palmer's podcast.
- [24:09]
A
Oh, so you're like a podcaster.
- [24:11]
B
You listen.
- [24:12]
A
Where's Bird's eye view in that? Can I just.
- [24:14]
B
Oh, I mean, obviously Bird's eye view.
- [24:16]
A
That's number one. She forgot to tell you. All right, what's, like, your most used app?
- [24:21]
B
Okay. Yeah, so I wanted to pull my phone up because this is very interesting. So my most used app is Messages. Yeah, of course. Second most used is TikTok.
- [24:35]
A
Oh, telling us about yourself.
- [24:37]
B
I'm one of the millennials that's not gonna get left behind. And then my third Most used is alarm.com.
- [24:44]
A
Alarm.Com.
- [24:46]
B
Yeah.
- [24:47]
A
What does alarm.com do?
- [24:48]
B
So, like, alarm.com is my alarm system.
- [24:51]
A
Oh. So I have, like, after houses. Yeah.
- [24:53]
B
Okay. Yeah, so that's.
- [24:55]
A
I was like, isn't there an alarm in the clock feature? I was very confused there.
- [24:58]
B
Yeah. And then fourth is Google Maps Fair.
- [25:01]
A
That's how mine. I think My GPS is definitely up there.
- [25:05]
B
Yeah.
- [25:06]
A
Okay, so I feel like I know the answer to this. What social media app do you use the most?
- [25:10]
B
TikTok.
- [25:10]
A
TikTok?
- [25:11]
B
Yeah.
- [25:11]
A
So you're just like a straight up tiktoker now?
- [25:13]
B
I am a consumer, I am a scroll, I'm a doom scroller. I'm in the comments, I'm reposting, I'm sharing it to stories on other apps so that people can be directed towards TikTok.
- [25:28]
A
Okay, so you're on there. This is actually a perfect segue into where I want to start it with our conversation, which is social media. Right. Plays such a role in everything. It's playing a huge role in the narratives, the conversation surrounding the WNBA right now. The league is in like a pretty tenuous spot. It's never been more successful, but there's been some bumps along the road, potential landmines from time to time as it grows, as you scale that growth. So overall, how do you think the 24 hour discourse we're seeing, like, do you think it's great for the sport or do you think it hurts the sport?
- [26:06]
B
I think it's a part of the growth. You know, I think that with growth you can have growing pains. You know, I think that's very natural for that. But I also remember a time when it didn't exist, you know, and I feel like we can be proud of the amount of engagement that we're getting. This is something that I've said from the very beginning, us as women athletes, we've always been in a position where we're like, be grateful, be grateful, be grateful. So every interaction was meaningful. You know, you always interacted with your fans and now our fans are online, you know, and they have community. And so that engagement is growing exponentially. And thankfully to social media, there's more avenues in which they can reach us, they can get to know us, then we can reach them. But then it also comes with trolls, which I think is natural. But how we manage that I think is going to prove our sustainability and evolution as we see social media exist in sport.
- [27:07]
A
Okay, how do you personally manage it? So how do you manage it from a business standpoint? Like you're a business, are you managing that? And then how do you block it out when you need to? Right. You can't let it dominate your day.
- [27:20]
B
Well, as a business, you know, as someone who has obviously a public facing brand, I do have a social team that helps me. I okay everything, I help create everything. But they do an amazing job of executing the Creative vision that I have for how I want to have my social media and digital footprint. A lot of the. I mean, a lot, if not all of the content is sourced either by me or by them. And then I also try to be very intentional with timing and understanding what's happening in the world today, figuring out how I can engage in a way that is meaningful to me, but also can be impactful. Learning how to be myself while also being in the brand. And then, you know, when it gets to. Because I am a consumer of social media, you know, I am an individual who likes being on social media. I just report as abuse. If you mess with me.
- [28:15]
A
Oh, you use the report button.
- [28:16]
B
I use report as abuse. I'm not even gonna lie. Sorry.
- [28:20]
A
You're like, are you blocked?
- [28:21]
B
I'm not people, too, but are you a blog? If someone is, like, saying something crazy, I just report as abuse. And then you can dispute it with the social media company. That's cool.
- [28:28]
A
I love that. Yeah, I love that. I actually just downloaded an app called Opal recently, which, like, basically just shames you. When you try to go on your apps, you, like, set up times, let's say, like from 10:00am to 4:00pm it, like, you pick the apps you wanted to block and you can get into them, but you kind of. You gotta go into Opal, you gotta wait a couple seconds, and you gotta hit, like, three buttons. So it just makes it a little difficult. And honestly, I open it, and then Even in the 5, 6 seconds I have to wait, I'm like, eh, do I really wanna be doing this? So it does work.
- [29:00]
B
Okay.
- [29:01]
A
I recommend it for anyone who's in need. Who's in need.
- [29:04]
B
I've also heard people putting certain apps in grayscale.
- [29:07]
A
Yeah, I've heard that.
- [29:09]
B
I think that would definitely work for me, which is why I haven't done it.
- [29:11]
A
Yeah. Says a lot about us.
- [29:13]
B
Yeah.
- [29:13]
A
You want to stay on there? All right. Do you think the wnba, especially in this moment of CBA negotiations, is. And I'm talking everybody in the ecosystem of the wnba, do you think they're online? Too much? Is too much happening online?
- [29:30]
B
I mean, I feel like it feels like too much because we haven't been to this point. I think there may be perhaps, like, a way to balance it out. I do think what is happening, though, is that there are a lot of parasocial relationships happening where someone could walk up to you and be like, oh, my God, what you had for dinner was amazing. You know, and it's just kind of like. Like, you weren't there. I don't know who you are. I'm really trying not to be disrespectful, but I understand the amount of emotion and how, I guess, how committed people are to, like, wanting to get to know us and support us. And I found on social media, at least, that these types of relationships are steering away from the main thing, which is the game. You know, I mean, it's. You can always see it during free agency and, like, trade deadline, where it's like, no, they separated them, and I'm like, yo, like, she went from a 500 team to, like a top two team, you know? And so it's interesting. But I also do think that it's a way for us to kind of learn ourselves online, but then also hopefully maintain that engagement that still keeps the sport the main thing.
- [30:44]
A
Okay, all right, let's. Let's get into some of the CBA negotiation stuff that's happening for you personally. How are you balancing just as president, but also just a player in this league? The responsibility, I guess, to. To both want to have a league, of course, but also making sure you're getting what is rightfully yours. How do you approach that balance?
- [31:06]
B
Yeah, I mean, you've been in our position before on the executive committee. You know how it is. You know, you want to make sure that you come to the table prepared to negotiate. You also want to not lose yourself in what the collective also wants. You want to also be able to use your individual voice. And so I'm always very careful about how I express myself as neca, how I express myself as the president, how I express myself as a member of this union, and how I express myself as a player in this league. You know, there is some compartmentalizing that kind of comes with that responsibility. But I've learned along the way that keeping quiet is not always the way to go, but leading through empowering others is incredibly important. I've done a lot of listening. Listening is. Is very, very, very important. We did a lot of listening in our last CBA negotiation. And so hearing people out, but then also making sure that everyone is engaged. And then when you listen to others, you also get to learn some things that perhaps even in a leadership position, you wouldn't have considered. And it's just kind of like balancing all of that in flow as I go, but then, too, making sure that the main thing still stays the main thing, you know, like in season, yes, I'm available. Yes, we have meetings. Yes, I engage when we need to, but I'm Also here to play. You know, I'm here to play basketball. That's what I want to do. I want to play again and again and again, which includes a season in 2026. But it's not going to happen unless we come together and understand what the main thing is and ensure that we can get a good deal done. Because that is what we deserve. You know, not losing sight of what that is and how we can get there shouldn't mean that it won't happen.
- [32:53]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. So something that I think all of us who've been in the WNBA for the last however many years you want to put on it have had to balance this. And I'm curious how you think of it. The balance. And Meghan and I actually talked about this a little bit on a Touch More yesterday on this stage. The balance of pointing out discrepancies, pointing out the injustice within the league, while simultaneously building your league up. Right. I always think of this one particular moment. We were in the bubble. We had just negotiated to get there, which was very difficult. We enter our bubble season, and one of the laundry rooms was a proper shit show. It was disgusting. There might have been, like, a rat in there. Definitely some Florida bugs. If anyone's been to Florida, the bugs there, like, 8ft tall. It was gross. And there's this moment where it's like, okay, do we talk about this? Because they're not fixing it. So do we talk about this publicly? But does that make our league look bad? Do we now look like all the narratives are telling people to view us, right? Like, not worth it, they don't make enough money. And so there's a little bit of a dance that happens there. How do you approach that dance?
- [34:04]
B
I mean, yeah, it is a dance. It's an intricate tango, really. And I think that's a perfect example. I mean, at the end of the day, the day, you know, we're here because we love the sport. Everyone supports something that boils down to the sport and how we perform. Do we need it to perform? Then let's talk about it. You know, like, if it's going to make my life easier to be able to go out on the court and do what I need to do. Let's talk about it now, how we talk about it? Who talks about it when we talk about it? That's where we now engage, perhaps the collective movement. You know, we had a lot of experience of that in the bubble, where it's like, hey, we need to stop and talk about this. This is what's important right now. What are you feeling? How do you feel about this? What do you think we should do? Then once everybody kind of speaks about it, you can kind of figure out the direction that you need to go. But I think we've learned time and time again that keeping quiet is not the answer. But there also is a way to speak up where you can be heard.
- [35:04]
A
Yeah. And to finish that story, the laundry room, Alicia Clark went on first take, talked about it, showed pictures and what do you know, the laundry room got fixed like the next day.
- [35:14]
B
Like the next day.
- [35:16]
A
And that's when we talk about as players in the past being incentivized to speak on these things publicly. So real quick, for those that haven't seen this update, which I don't know how, if you follow the Dome, but you haven't, Nafeesa Collier gave a statement, a four minute statement, essentially calling out leadership, calling out Kathy Engelbert, the commissioner. Kathy Engelbert then had a press conference essentially denying some of what Nafisa said, said there was a meeting with Nafisa the next week. Couple days later, Nafisa then cancels this meeting. So this is where we are currently. Just to give you a quick update. How have you, what's your thoughts on the whole back and forth of it all?
- [35:55]
B
Well, I mean, I think what Nafeesa did was an exceptional display of that leadership, of speaking truth to power in a way that she can be heard. You know, we've had players do it in the past, we've had teams do it in the past. And today this is where we're at and this is not where we want to stay. And I think that that's exactly why she's a member of our executive committee. I agreed with what Nafisa said. You know, I think everybody, I think everybody has a way of communicating what they said. And I think she really spoke a lot of the sentiments that the players had been expressing, many of which, to be honest, were conversations that have been had not publicly with leadership. But she took it upon herself to use her platform in a way that was monumental and is going to contribute to the transformational change that we're going to see. I think that there was still a level of, there's still much to be wanted from Kathy's comments. And I understand that we're not just in the middle of negotiations. But, you know, the playoffs are happening, you're trying to run leagues. You know, we have the, maybe perhaps the largest free agency on the precipice. Once this deal gets Done.
- [37:09]
A
It's the largest. You all are free agents.
- [37:11]
B
We are all free agents. And so there's a lot on the line, and I think that's why Nafisa spoke up. You know, she definitely spoke to things that we talk about on the ec and it's amazing as well for someone like her and for someone like Stewie to be in a position to kind of peek into what it's like to run a league. And I think that that's the advantage that we have and having players like that who are creating more opportunities and creating the growth that we want to see, for us to be able to do the same thing for the league that we all love and the league that we all play in.
- [37:46]
A
Yeah. Something else Meghan and I talked about yesterday was this idea of trust, right? Trust in these negotiations. It needs to be built. It needs to be sustained for really any negotiation to be successful. This is also something that Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA, spoke about recently. What did you think of his comments?
- [38:08]
B
I disagree that it's personal. You know, we've been saying this from the beginning. I think maybe perhaps even since opt out. It's business. You know, that's certainly. That's certainly the mantra that's been imparted upon us from the league. You know, this is business. I think that you can take it personally if you. In perhaps, you know, naturally in a negotiation, you don't like what's being said, but you and I have been there. Yeah, it feels personal at times, but it's. It's business at the end of the day. And I think that our players have been doing an amazing job. Our union members have been doing an amazing job of displaying our knowledge about the business and understanding where we want to see it go, which is to. For it to grow and for us to be represented in that growth moving forward. So I understand that, you know, relationships have to be mended. Mended in negotiations. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think it's quite simple, really. So taking a lot of the emotions that perhaps you have out of it can be alleviated in the negotiations.
- [39:12]
A
Absolutely. So I used to always joke about our last cba. How many people are Jersey Shore fans. Like, we're aware of it. Okay, this is a hit or miss when I tell this story, but on Jersey Shore, they do this thing where they put on a shirt to get ready for the night, but it's not the shirt they're gonna go out in. It's the shirt before the shirt. Okay. And I always said that our last CBA was the shirt, but it was the CBA before the cba because we knew we needed to, like, scrap some things out of it, scratch and claw, create a new foundation. So when the growth hit, we would be ready. This cba, this next CBA would be ready to capitalize. And now that growth is finally hitting. So now that it's here and the CBA definitely needs to reflect that, can you explain to everyone, like, first off, just the financial ask, like, what's at stake financially?
- [40:06]
B
Yeah, I mean, you hit the nail on the head. The last CPA was the catalyst. I mean, the last CPA was the first agreement that we had seen that didn't resemble all the ones before it. And it kind of gave us a stepping stone to where we want to go moving forward. Now, I think you also hit the point of trust. You know, we were hopeful in the last cba. We trusted what we're experiencing right now. And it's important for us to realize that that trust has to yield, that that hope is now a reality. And we're talking so much about growth. We understand that we needed time to grow, which is what we came to terms with in the last cba. But now the growth is here, the business is growing. And the only part of the business that doesn't grow is that which. That represents the value of the players. And so what we're seeking simply is a salary structure that resembles the portion that the players get that grows with the business. That's all that we're really seeking right now. And we know that that deal can get done, and we look forward to seeing. Seeing it through, but we also know that negotiations have to happen along the way.
- [41:25]
A
They do have to happen. So. Yeah. So just for those that don't know, because there is a lot of just different articles being written, different things being said. Every CBA before potentially this one, the salaries and the salary caps have been set numbers. They haven't been any kind of rev share even. Sometimes I see a 9% number, and I think that's actually just based on the set numbers and what people think revenue is, and they're just pulling that number. So it's not like we were getting 9% or getting this. It was just set.
- [41:56]
B
Yeah.
- [41:56]
A
And I think what players are asking for now is to have skin in the game to grow with the business in a way that they've never been able to grow with it.
- [42:03]
B
Yes. And my apologies. I was not clear enough.
- [42:05]
A
But, you know, I wanted to make that point because I've seen It a lot. I've even had friends ask it, and it's like, no, trust me. It's been a set number that's gone up by a certain percentage every year that we did agree upon, but we weren't. Or say you guys weren't in the position you're in now. Okay, so you've been talking about a transformational cba. What's something that we haven't seen in a CBA before that you'd like to see that maybe hasn't gotten as much attention in the press?
- [42:34]
B
Oh, I mean, of course, you know, everyone wants to discuss salary. We're looking to see a standardization of facilities. You know, I think standardization is something that we're. We're really seeking. We've. We've moved past the narrative that having a practice facility is not a competitive advantage. To be honest, I think now with the majority of. I would say majority of teams having their own dedicated facilities, not having one now is probably a competitive disadvantage. So making sure that we can standardize that process, seeing some language that contributes towards a retirement plan and retirement players.
- [43:10]
A
Let's go.
- [43:11]
B
We looking out for you and me soon.
- [43:14]
A
Y' all.
- [43:15]
B
Don't get it twisted. But. But, you know, we also know, like, in the last cpa, where certain things have to happen for us to be able to have something a little bit more robust for players that have literally built this league. We want to start now incorporating language and a system that can reflect players being taken care of, who. Who obviously are the reasons why we're here today. And so I know that salary dominates a lot of the conversation, but those are some of the other big priorities that we're also looking to.
- [43:44]
A
Is there anything on, like, the Coring?
- [43:47]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, we didn't win it last time.
- [43:49]
A
I know.
- [43:49]
B
Still don't win it.
- [43:50]
A
Yeah. I was curious about this on the table. The other thing you learn about being in these negotiations is, like, you try. You're wanting to get, like, 10, 15, 20 things done. If you get two, it's a win.
- [43:59]
B
It really is.
- [44:00]
A
It's really interesting. And so a lot of times I feel like what I learned in our last CBA negotiation also was, you know, you actually did it right when. The minute you sign it, there's still more.
- [44:10]
B
Yes.
- [44:11]
A
You know, in a way, you know that you did the best you could, because once something's in place, that's when you get to see what you're gonna need in the next five, six, seven years.
- [44:19]
B
Exactly.
- [44:19]
A
Yeah. So something else that's interesting. About the job. Speaking of not getting every deal point you want, you know, you're not always going to get the win. You know, it's a negotiation. There's an art to the compromise. What have you learned in this role about that?
- [44:35]
B
Oh, I guess whether it's the art of negotiation, the art of compromising. You know, I think we used to say this, and I think it always still kind of applies. Everyone is not going to get everything that they want, but you can walk away content or, I guess, accomplished if everyone gets a little bit of what they ask for. You know, there's really virtually no situation where, you know, we can all say, I got exactly what I wanted, but if there is a part of you that is represented in the agreement, then we got somewhere now where you. Where you start running into issues, which I think towards our last CBA negotiations, we had to go back to the drawing board where some players didn't feel like they were being represented the way that they wanted to. And that's fine, but I think that's where I really learned. Okay, you know, we're trying to create something new, whether it was even, like, prioritization and trying to understand what that would look like, ensuring that you're not shutting out a certain group of people, both on our side and also, I mean, I'm sure they do it on the league side as well. So understanding that that takes a little bit of time. That takes a lot of listening to. And then it also is. It is more than okay to go back to the drawing board, because when you decide to overlook a conversation, even if it's something that doesn't get done, it was there. We addressed it. All right. We're now realizing that may not be as important as we wanted it to be to ensure that everyone can be represented in the change that we're looking to make.
- [46:12]
A
No, that's actually great advice. I'm sure we have people in the audience who either lead teams or a part of negotiations. So that's really great advice. I actually just did a show with your sister called Second Acts. Go check it out. And we shared a story from our last CBA where the whole idea of sometimes you gotta go back to the drawing board, we shared the story about. So I'm share it with you guys here about getting to a point in the negotiation where numbers were agreed upon, salary numbers, salary cap numbers, and me, you and Shanae kind of backdoor some things. And we were like, we think the max can be higher. And we literally crunched the numbers, came up with $220,000 and had to present that to the league as the new Max. But there was concern, there was concern that we were doing it too late, that it was bad faith. Right. But the reality was we knew that was best. And I think that would be what I would also share as advice is when you know something is best because you're the one who has the experience and the knowledge of what's actually happening. And it's never too late. It's never too late in a negotiation, you can't be scared. It's always good faith also when you're coming from a good place right today.
- [47:22]
C
Explain from Vox. Sean Ramisra. I'm also from vox. I'm soon to be the father of a daughter and my dad's pretty excited about that because he always wanted a daughter. He wanted me to be a girl. And that's all the time we have to talk about that. But the other day he sent me a video.
- [47:36]
A
Hello Darkness, my old friend.
- [47:38]
C
A YouTube short of a girl singing. It was titled 12 Year Old Sings for Hero Dad. And he said, hope my granddaughter learns this song one day. But nothing about this video seemed right. For starters, the girl looks like she's 6 and not 12. The description reads, the heartwarming song that the father taught his daughter before the accident. What accident? The mouth movements don't line up, the shots of the crowd, the lighting, everything is too perfect. And that's why it had to be AI Slop. I wrote back to my dad, this video is unfortunately artificial intelligence. And we haven't seen talked since. Just kidding. But my dad's not the only one getting duped by AI Slop. A lot of you are. And pretty soon the rest of us will join you because we are in our AI Slop era. Hear all about it on Today Explained.
- [48:29]
B
Empathy. Most of the time we think of it as a good thing. But what happens when all that feels, feeling gets overwhelming?
- [48:36]
A
I didn't realize I could run out of compassion or, you know, run out of that ability to put myself in another person's position and understand their feelings.
- [48:48]
B
And why do some people think being empathetic isn't just tiring, but morally wrong?
- [48:53]
A
All of a sudden there's sort of.
- [48:55]
B
Been this conversation happening about like, okay, empathy is toxic, empathy is even sinful. This week unexplain it to me. Who's behind a growing argument against empathy and the science behind why it's actually good for us and other people. But when we can turn empathy into action, that's when it starts to benefit us. Find episode Sundays wherever you get your podcasts.
- [49:23]
A
This week on Net Worth and Chill, we're joined by Susie Welch, the best selling author and leadership expert who spent decades helping people win at work and life. From climbing the corporate ladder at prestigious publications to co authoring Winning with Jack Welch, Susie has turned her insights into both career success and serious money. She opens up about navigating major life transitions, why loving your work is actually a wealth building strategy, and how her ViewBridge tool can transform your biggest career decisions. I also had voices in my head that were preventing me from betting on myself. I was like, why would I bet on myself? I mean, the moment I finally stepped out and stepped into my purpose, I.
- [49:59]
B
Literally, like, I was alone in my.
- [50:01]
A
Room at night and I thought, for the first time in my life, I'm going to do this terrifying thing. I'm going to battle myself. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF so you've now held this role of president for three terms, running unopposed each time. Everybody knew. Yes, everybody knew. They were like, she's the best. Just let her do it.
- [50:22]
B
You need people to want to run.
- [50:24]
A
You just want to have somebody to beat. What is that? You knew everybody was voting for you, y'.
- [50:29]
B
All.
- [50:30]
A
It's a great job.
- [50:31]
B
I'm recommend it.
- [50:34]
A
But talk about the legacy piece. Like, what legacy do you hope to leave in this role for future generations?
- [50:41]
B
I mean, honestly, in this role, I came in not knowing nearly as much as I thought I needed to, but I was empowered to believe that I could accept this role and do something with it. I wanted to go in kind of like ears open, eyes open, and not assuming that I knew the responsibility that was ahead of me based off of what the idea of what being a president was, you know, but then I really love the aspect of teamwork and engagement. And so, you know, with the help of our staff and, you know, and Terry and expanding our EC and creating stronger governance around it, it really helped me kind of lean into the role of doing a lot of listening, making sure that I can engage with players. I mean, to this day, I'll have in season out of season, players will text me, call me, you know, which also I realized, I'm not gonna lie, y'. All, like, even though I compete against people, they still gotta like me. So, like, as president, like, I'm not gonna lie, the job would be very hard if, like, people don't mess with you.
- [51:50]
A
Yeah.
- [51:50]
B
You know, and that took a lot of grappling for me, you know, because I felt like I was getting to a point where people were shocked when I would, like, you know, do something on the court. Like, but you, my president, not right now. What the hell? I'm trying to win. Like, what are you talking about?
- [52:07]
A
In a FISA last year.
- [52:10]
B
Fee and me are competitive. You know what I'm saying? But I'm not about to be diplomatic.
- [52:15]
A
Going for a rebound.
- [52:16]
B
What, are you kidding me? But I love Fee, you know, and so I love all the players. And I realized that having that role meant stepping outside of my box, maybe perhaps having conversations with people that I wouldn't normally, making myself available in a way that I wouldn't normally. And I think. I mean, if that is a legacy, I would love for that to be it. But mostly I want this to be a coveted role. I mean, for the longest when I entered. I mean, when I tell you people avoiding being on the E.C. like the plague, I'm hoping that it's something that people want to do now.
- [52:55]
A
Yeah. That's amazing. So, wait, so what are you finding, like, in terms of your on court skill? Right. I don't mean shooting and passing. I mean, like, who you are as a player, how you approach the game, what is translating into roles that. Whether it's as president, whether it's you as a businesswoman, you enter a boardroom, like, what skills have transferred for you.
- [53:19]
B
From being like, physically on the court to my other roles, who you are as a player. Yeah.
- [53:24]
A
How are you seeing that show up in the boardroom?
- [53:26]
B
Okay, okay, okay. I mean, a lot of people like to say, like, I don't have a lot of mustard on my hot dog when I play, you know? You guys know what that means?
- [53:36]
A
Who's saying that?
- [53:37]
B
Oh, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I don't. There's. She just goes out there and does her job. I'm not like, you know, like, I'm not doing all of that.
- [53:44]
A
I don't think I had a lot of mustard either. Only when I was talking to refs, you know, and all my mustard came.
- [53:48]
B
Out, you know, even my mustard is gone with them.
- [53:51]
A
Good for you.
- [53:51]
B
Yeah. I mean, who. I'm not going to lie. It definitely. It's more Zen. But I guess, like, I kind of find myself also just coming in as I am not feeling like I have to posture a certain way, being comfortable with what I know that I can do, what my strengths are, not letting the room be the box that I step out of, but not necessarily stepping out of who I am. When I'm in the room, I find myself doing that as a woman who's in business and such and then as president too. I mean, it's like a team still. You can approach it like a team. I don't know how to bring the ball up and call a play like that. I don't have court vision like that. So if we're on the EC and we're talking about prioritization, I'm going to talk to Satu, you know, because she's a player who's in Europe and who understands the implications of that. I'm going to talk to Gabby Williams because that's something that directly affects her. You know, I don't have any kids, and so I'm going to talk to Sky, I'm going to talk to Derica, I'm going to talk to Dewana. I'm not going to assume that I know what they need because they're living the experience right now. So being able to use that as a way, using the people around you as a way to, to support you, that's what a team does. And I find myself doing that a lot.
- [55:09]
A
Okay, so let's, let's take it to. On the court a little bit.
- [55:11]
B
Okay.
- [55:12]
A
You're from Houston originally played high school.
- [55:14]
B
Do people know that? Because someone said that they didn't know.
- [55:16]
A
That you're from Texas.
- [55:17]
B
That I'm from Houston.
- [55:18]
A
Oh, specifically Houston.
- [55:19]
B
Yeah.
- [55:20]
A
My bad. Is there like a big difference?
- [55:22]
B
Yes.
- [55:22]
A
Okay. I don't go down there.
- [55:26]
B
Exactly. You don't go down there.
- [55:27]
A
I go to Austin.
- [55:28]
B
Of course you do. Yeah, girl. It's okay.
- [55:33]
A
Amazing. All right, well, for everyone that doesn't know, Neca is from Houston originally, you went to Stanford university. You've played 13 seasons in the WNBA, both in LA and Seattle.
- [55:43]
B
14. Boo. 14.
- [55:45]
A
What going into. You just finished 14. Yeah, girl, I never know how that works.
- [55:49]
B
You're right. You know you're right. The timing of it is kind of crazy.
- [55:52]
A
It's like you've been in the league 13 years, but you've played 14 season. I never know.
- [55:56]
B
That's weird.
- [55:56]
A
When people ask me, I'm like, Ah, 20 something. I never know. So now that you're on the Seattle Storm, we both know what it means to represent Seattle. How would you describe. Oh, okay, let's go. How would you describe what makes Seattle basketball culture different from other places?
- [56:13]
B
Oh, man, Seattle basketball is like woven into the community. It's very much. It's a way of life. It's not just, oh, there's A game? Are you going? It is a way of life, you know, you feel it everywhere you go. You feel the support everywhere you go. When you meet the people who are at the games, anybody who supports. It's very, very cultural. And I really do love that about Seattle. Obviously, I played in LA for a really long time, and it's a very big city, and you could feel the love in la, but you could kind of like, sense, like, okay, this is the community that, you know, that the Sparks really mess with in Seattle. It feels like everybody, even if they don't go to games, they know about the storm. And I really do love that.
- [57:01]
A
Yeah, Seattle has that small city, big city, depending on how you look at it, vibe to it, where it's a big city in that it has the restaurants. Are you gonna give us that Thai place? Is now the time? You still keeping a secret? She came on our show. Okay, let's give it. We'll skip it. She came on our show a couple months ago and was like, oh, there's a Thai spot. But I'm not gonna say it out loud. I don't want anyone to know about it.
- [57:21]
B
I don't gatekeep a lot of stuff, but I.
- [57:23]
A
This is the one. It's all right. Janae told me last week.
- [57:26]
C
What?
- [57:27]
A
Sinead told me last week. She ordered from there.
- [57:30]
B
Oh, you know what? She sent me a picture from backstage.
- [57:33]
A
She ordered from there. Amazing.
- [57:35]
B
You can go there. Sorry, guys.
- [57:37]
A
So, yeah, Seattle has big city things to it. Restaurant, shopping, you know, you can go to shows or music, whatever. But it's such a small city and the sports community has a small town vibe to it. All the sports teams, everybody supports them. You really get to know each other. So it's really special. So it's no secret. I'm part of the ownership and I've got a bias. Give it up. But how has the new facility been? And how important is it for you as a player, for all players to have access to, like, this elite, dedicated facility?
- [58:06]
B
The only thing that the facility is missing, Sue. I'm sorry. Is my bedroom.
- [58:11]
A
We'll work on that.
- [58:12]
B
Thanks.
- [58:12]
A
Free. It is free agency.
- [58:13]
B
Thanks.
- [58:15]
C
Not tampering.
- [58:16]
B
But honestly, I. So in free agency, before I came to Seattle, you know, it was hard because I'm a loyalist, you know, and it was very. I think a lot of my decision was deciding to go somewhere else. You know, L.A. will always have my heart, but at that point, it was just like, I gotta do something else. And when I got to Seattle, I think that I had Been holding onto this idea that that's really been imprinted upon us as women athletes. It's like, oh, you shouldn't be so vain to say that you want to have a facility wherever you go. And I realized, like, no, this is what I deserve. This is what. I'm a professional athlete. I need professional facilities, you know. And so I had to break out of the chains of believing that it wasn't okay for that to be a part of why I come, because it for sure is extending my lifetime as a professional. My number one goal this last season was to play in every game and to be healthy for every game. I played in 47 games this past season, and that was my number one goal. And it is absolutely because of where I was training, where I was recovering, you know, being able to call that facility my home and being able to have access to it 24, 7. I was able to do anything that I needed to do.
- [59:46]
A
You know, wait, talk about the 44 game season, because there's been a lot of talk about it. It went from 40 to 44, but the actual footprint didn't change much. So you guys were playing a lot of games and not a lot of days. What was the impact there?
- [60:00]
B
I mean, I honestly couldn't imagine have. I couldn't imagine doing it with the 40 game season without the facility, to be honest. But something that I like to talk to people about is it's not just the fact that we played 44 games for the longest. I went back and I did a very rudimentary research. I went back and I want to say for like the span of about like maybe like eight to 10 years, we were playing 36 games, I think.
- [60:23]
A
Yeah.
- [60:24]
B
And then we went one year to 22.
- [60:27]
A
I think that was 2021.
- [60:28]
B
That was a bubble season.
- [60:30]
A
Oh, the bubble season.
- [60:31]
B
Yeah.
- [60:31]
A
Then 2021, we played a lower amount.
- [60:33]
B
Because of COVID Yeah, we played a lower amount because of COVID And then we went 38, 40, 44, you know, real quick. And so it's not, I beg people to understand. It's not that, oh my gosh, we're now playing 44 games. It sucks when you hear players talking about the cadence of games and the number of games. It's because in the span of four years, we went from playing 36 games to 44 games, and now there's a game tonight. And typically in the past, if they win tonight, they would have won. They still gotta win two more games, you know, Phoenix still gotta win five more games, you know, And I'M not gonna lie. It is a lot. Even with the charters, even with facility, because we just haven't had enough of a sample size to know long term what it means to play that many games. And I just really want. I just really want us to be healthy. And I know you guys all want us to be healthy too, so.
- [61:37]
A
Absolutely. Well, this year, as you said, you played in all the games. You had another all star level season, averaging 18.37 rebounds, 2.3 assists.
- [61:48]
B
Oh, my God.
- [61:49]
A
Okay, let's go. You're 35, which is still young. That's why I'm saying it. Thanks for having me. How do you, at this stage in your career, define getting better?
- [61:59]
B
Ooh, that's a great question. Thank you. So one thing that I find that I'm doing is just new ways to maintain the interest, you know, new ways to maintain.
- [62:16]
A
Keep it new, keep it fresh, keep.
- [62:17]
B
It new, keep it fresh. While also still having it contribute to what I need to do and whether it was like introducing. I started doing pilates fully in 2019, and one time, Susan had me do kickboxing, and I had, like, shin splints for two weeks. And I was like, no's out. I called her and I was like, sorry, this is a no. Because I like to call myself Susan Bort. Susan King Borcher. Yeah. She obviously is, like, the guru. And you guys saw her earlier today.
- [62:48]
A
Yeah, she was here. Yeah.
- [62:49]
B
So she's my strength coach. And I like to call myself, like, teacher's pet. Because she'll be like, try this and I'll, like, try it.
- [62:56]
A
I'm the same way. I call, oh, my God. You're teacher's pet. I'm guinea piggy.
- [62:59]
B
Yes.
- [62:59]
A
Okay. She'll be like, do you wanna try this? I'll be like, yeah, sure, whatever. And then it passes down to everybody else.
- [63:04]
B
Right. I love seeing your videos too. Oh, my God.
- [63:07]
A
I can't believe I have video. I always screenshot other. Okay. We do this remotely. I worked with Susan as well. And so we use an app. Cause Susan lives in Portland. Not everybody lives there, obviously. And so you go in the app and it's amazing. You have your workout, you click the link, and like, a tutorial pops up. And it's just another athlete that Susan works with doing the workout. So every now and then, I'll be like, I'll get a Cam Brink video. I'd be getting Kelsey Plum videos. The Diana Taurasi ones are probably my favorite.
- [63:33]
B
I got a DT one the other day.
- [63:35]
A
They're so Funny.
- [63:36]
B
Yeah, it's good. Yeah.
- [63:37]
A
I didn't know you get mine.
- [63:38]
B
Yeah, I get yours, too. It's mostly, like, on the court when you're doing the balance stuff. Yeah, you rock at that. So, anyway, I digress.
- [63:45]
A
And we're back to the show.
- [63:46]
B
Yeah. So, I mean, just finding ways to keep it fresh. You know, I always. You know, we always have kind of like, that year in review, and you kind of discuss what worked and what didn't, and, like, I'm always the one that's, like, everything worked. It was great. But then maintaining the love for the game, also keeping things fresh, and I find myself now, like, okay, I would like to incorporate activities, and I don't want to call them activities. I would like to incorporate training that I could also continue to do when I'm done. I don't want to just have this like. Like pickleball, you know, I've never played. I don't know how to play.
- [64:19]
A
You just played for the first time, so three days ago.
- [64:21]
B
Is it really what it is?
- [64:23]
A
It's all right. Okay, I get it. I get it. It's like, not a lot of movement. I mean, you move a little bit, and so it's not that taxing. So you can play like, six hours, and at the end, I was like, oh, the back of my neck sweat. I sweat a little bit.
- [64:35]
B
Oh, six hours.
- [64:36]
A
Oh, you could play forever.
- [64:37]
B
Really?
- [64:37]
A
It is not that hard.
- [64:38]
B
Okay, but is it enough?
- [64:41]
A
Define enough. Where are you in Life at this? 44, about to turn 45. It was enough. I called it a workout.
- [64:47]
B
I mean, but you're in shape.
- [64:49]
A
Yeah.
- [64:50]
B
So you called it a workout?
- [64:51]
A
Yeah.
- [64:51]
B
You logged it in and everything?
- [64:53]
A
Yeah, I took my whoop off the minute I retired.
- [64:56]
B
Oh, did you?
- [64:57]
A
It was the first thing I did.
- [64:58]
B
Oh, no, sorry. We lost.
- [64:59]
A
I came home, I took my whoop off.
- [65:00]
B
I'm crazy with it. I'm like the type of person that's.
- [65:02]
A
Like, let's compete, actually, wait. Let's get into the tech of it all. Okay, so tell me, what are you doing from a tech standpoint? How is that helping you get better?
- [65:10]
B
Okay, so, you know, I have, like. I have wearables that I use, but then also, like, you know, when it comes to. I feel like all those gadgets that we use, that's all tech, too, you know, and with the facility, we used a lot of different tech that allowed us to kind of measure our load and such. We recently just got put onto catapult. Obviously. I got my oura ring. Yeah.
- [65:36]
A
Tell us A little bit. What's your relationship with your OURA ring?
- [65:40]
B
How are we go together?
- [65:43]
A
Yeah.
- [65:44]
B
Yeah, we do.
- [65:45]
A
I'm surprised that's not number one app.
- [65:47]
B
Well, I mean, I should be checking on the ring a little bit more than I should, but it can be a little shameful sometimes.
- [65:53]
A
I know.
- [65:54]
B
Mine is mostly with my sleep, though. It's not with my activity. It's like, are you stressed? And I'm like, yes. That's my baseline. So I don't really know what you want me to do about that. But I do love, you know, because there are times when I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh, I feel great. And then you look at it, and you're like, no, you don't.
- [66:13]
A
How has it transformed how you, like, how you work out, how you're training?
- [66:19]
B
I mean, I think it's transformed a little bit more because, like, Susan's on it.
- [66:22]
A
Yeah.
- [66:22]
B
You know what I'm saying? So she can see everything.
- [66:24]
A
She was on my whoop, too.
- [66:25]
B
Yeah. I mean, like, I'm not trying to hide anything from her, but, you know, sometimes, like, you know, like, I went.
- [66:30]
A
To a wedding once, and she. After the wedding weekend, she texted me. It was like, Monday morning. She's like, are you dead? Because my numbers were wild like crazy. I know who wears a whoop, but it's like a percentage. I was at 2% all the nights. Yeah.
- [66:44]
B
Oh, wow.
- [66:45]
A
I. You know, okay. When I go, I go, yeah, no, no, no.
- [66:49]
B
As you should. Yeah. But I mean, like, for me, I guess, you know, it's more. It's. Honestly, it's mostly the sleep that I struggle with. I struggle with sleeping. I'm not a napper.
- [66:59]
A
Okay. You mentioned catapult. Do you want to tell everybody, like, what that is and how you're using it?
- [67:04]
B
Yeah. So catapult is like, one of. Amongst, like, many different wearables, which obviously, too, like. I mean, you were a part of the conversations around wearables when we were trying to figure out what we could do, and we weren't able in the last CBA negotiations to get it to fruition. Mostly because players love wearables. We love being able to get the data, but we have to be able to negotiate a situation where we can have the data. We can use the data. Our teams can use it so that they can understand load, especially in a 44 game season. Being able to understand, okay, this person needs to push. This person doesn't need a push. And that's something that catapult does really well, and it's accommodating for women. Cause you just slip it. You have a special sports bra and you slip it in your sports bra and it basically just measures your load and when you can push and when you can't. All great things. Until it was informed upon us that we wouldn't be able to own our own data and that the privacy of it all.
- [68:03]
A
The privacy of it all. Where do you land on that?
- [68:06]
B
I want to be able to say, the data's mine, you can have it. I don't want to have to request my data. And I feel like that makes sense. I think that there's a level of autonomy, and I think every player has their different ideas around them wanting to do that. But ultimately, if we can't come to a consensus about that, then it's not going to happen. But you're able to wear it at this point. You can't wear any wearables in the game, but you can wear it in practice and they can figure out how, you know, how everyone's load is a little bit different. We also have some amazing tech when it comes to, like, we have the NOAA system.
- [68:42]
A
Yeah. I was actually going to ask you about. Yeah, what. What tech are you using that impacts your actual play?
- [68:48]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, that impacts my actual play. Aside from. I mean, I think mostly like the tech that we experience in the facility. Because in the off season, I'm really just using my wearables. But the NOAA system is like in the gym, and it basically can recognize you when you walk into the gym, knows who's shooting, gives you the percentage. And so the coaches can go in there and basically log in and see, okay, she's shooting this much, she's shooting this percentage from this area. And then when you have your player development workouts in the facility, it's very helpful for you to understand what your sweet spots are.
- [69:27]
A
So when it comes to the wearables. Right. So the way you interact with tech, and I'll use the specific example of sleep. So let's say you wake up and your OURA ring tells you you should feel like crap, but you actually don't. Or it says you should feel great cause you slept well, but you actually don't. Same thing with some of the. Whether it's Noah or some of the other tech you're using in the facility, when it's telling you to think one way, but you might think another. How do you manage that?
- [69:57]
B
That's the grace I give myself, you know, a lot of times. And Most. Most times. Most times, especially as women, we push through what we shouldn't. But I found that when I'm. When I have my tech and it's helping me perform, the days when I feel like I should push through and it's like, hey, yo, you should take it easy. I have now been considering that a little bit more and communicating with Susan to be like, hey, you know, I know I'm feeling good, but, like, can I modify? Sometimes it doesn't mean you have to cancel everything. And I think that that's the anxiety that develops, especially as high performing athletes. It's like, I don't feel good. I can't do anything. No. And maybe this is also working with Susan that I've learned, okay, maybe we just do something else. You know, you can still do something that helps you, that contributes to whatever your goal is, but maybe we just do something else instead of just canceling everything altogether. Or worse yet, pushing through something that you shouldn't have to.
- [70:58]
A
Has tech ever revealed something about yourself that you didn't know? And this could be something personal around your habits, or it could be like, man, maybe I shouldn't shoot that baseline shot. I'm actually only 20% from there.
- [71:16]
B
So, yeah, I've seen my map chart. And I will say, though, that I'm the type of person that's like, okay, my percentage is low. From there, I'm gonna shoot even more. You know, like, I'm gonna prove, you know, I'm definitely an overcorrector.
- [71:32]
A
And so did you train differently in a moment like that?
- [71:37]
B
I did. I mean, there were times when I was like, okay, well, I need to get more shots here. You know, I need to use my left hand more on this side. I need to. And a lot of times too, like, it all comes together, you know, the reason why you're perhaps shooting a poor percentage from this, from this particular spot may have to do with footwork that you don't normally work on. You know, it may have to do with other things. So how I'm shooting from here may not necessarily be something that I have to have to fix on the court. It may have to be something that I have to fix in the weight room.
- [72:06]
A
Okay, where are we at with AI?
- [72:09]
B
I mean, I literally just use, like, search engine. I don't. I'm not. I'm not. Well, I'm not using, like. I'm not trying to generate images. Like, Chenay Cheney sends me all these different images. The funniest one she ever sent me. I have to show you Actually, okay. Funniest one she ever sent me. She sent me. Show me the WNBA with a bunch of money. And it was just like a whole bunch of.
- [72:29]
A
It was like Scrooge McDuck. Just, like, jumping in the. Do you know Scrooge McDuck?
- [72:33]
C
Yes.
- [72:34]
A
Okay. Thank God. I just told him.
- [72:36]
B
I said we were, like, on the court, and it was like, literally just like we were in, like, a pit of money. And I was like, sinead, what are you doing?
- [72:41]
A
Put it on your wall, man. Goals. I more so meant, like, it being used to evaluate player performance, predict injuries, maybe influence contract negotiations. Like, the information that you could maybe get from AI. Is this something that you've thought about at all?
- [73:00]
B
I thought about it. I haven't acted or pursued anything about it, but I don't. I understand that these are all probably possibilities and probabilities.
- [73:11]
A
Yeah, definitely Something that I was able to try was like, the Meta VR glasses. Did you, like, was amazing. Really put those puppies on. It was just like a. It wasn't a real game. I mean, it was a real game, but. What's the word I'm looking for? It was fake. It wasn't happening in real time. We all can move on now. So I put them on and it was like the LA Sparks versus the New York Liberty. You're literally sitting at center court, almost as if you were a scorekeeper. Like, that's the vantage point. You can move it around and you're watching the game. I was blown away by it.
- [73:46]
B
Was it like a real game?
- [73:47]
A
It was a real live game.
- [73:48]
B
Not a live one, but a real one.
- [73:49]
A
Yeah.
- [73:50]
B
Yeah.
- [73:50]
A
That's the word. I can't. It's a demo. Demo, guys. It was a demo. There you go. So it was a demo of a real game, and I was blown away. And my first thought was, wow, like, fans are gonna be able to experience the game in a way they never could before. You can. I mean, it was pretty trippy. I looked to my right, I saw Sandy. She was like, right there. I was like, cute outfit. I looked to my left, it was Lynne Roberts. It's really. You're really in the game. And so, yeah, I thought, like, oh, man, fans are really gonna. So then it got me thinking, like, what would you want a fan to know about the game that they don't know? Like, the insider shit. Like, what would you want them to know or understand?
- [74:33]
B
I mean, our fans are so in tune. I don't even know how deep I can get, because I'm still trying to explain to Family members that, like, I know I can't meet the morning of the game, you know? Yeah. I don't think people understand that you have shoot around and you have all these different things that you do. When we get to the game, we get to the game two hours beforehand. All of the stuff that we're doing before, but, like, our fans are in tune. They totally get it. But I think actually it was interesting. It was our last game playing in Indy, and it was. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, all right. Now the one I see you hold it down. But we were playing in Indy, and we had a moment. You have a little bit more time when it's not your intro. So we're just sitting there. And for me, I don't want anyone to think that I'm ignoring them when I'm on the court, y', all, I literally tune everything out so people be yelling my name, and I try my best to do my job, but then also engage when I can. But in that moment, in a very rare moment, I was drinking my water, getting ready, and I asked. I asked two fans that were sitting behind us. I think one had, like, a Seattle jersey on, and then it was like, it was a friend group, and the friend brought the other friend to the game. And I was asking them, like, okay, you know, when you guys sit here, are you guys sitting here to be close to us, or do you actually like being able to, like, watch the game from this perspective? And it was that guy's first time, and he was like, I don't know. My friend just brought me. But I thought it was interesting because I always wondered why people like sitting there, because I think that now this might be difficult. I think as a fan, if you're sitting that close, don't watch the game and only pay attention to what happens on the bench in the timeout. Pay attention to what people are talking about, who people are looking at. I feel like if they were to engage in our bench, you would learn so, so, so, so much.
- [76:30]
A
Yeah, that's exactly what I thought. So the one thing about the VR is you can't go in the huddle. Like, you can't move it. Like, the angle is the angle. But I think if there was one thing that I would want fans to know, it's how difficult it is to be in a timeout, in an intense moment in a game to have a coach come in. Because, you know, they had to do their little, like, pre huddle thing that they do to have a coach come in. They have 30 seconds to draw A play to explain it. You have to pay attention. You have to take it in. You then have to leave. You have to go on the court, and you have to execute it. And just from like A to B to C to Z at the end. How difficult that is. Because I think a lot of. A lot of people are very judgmental.
- [77:08]
B
Yes.
- [77:08]
A
When a play doesn't work, of course. Or if it's how they not get a shot. Now, don't get me wrong, I've been that person. Sometimes when they don't get a shot at all and I'm watching a game, I'm like, wow.
- [77:16]
B
Yeah.
- [77:17]
A
But I've also been in that huddle, so I know something must have gone wrong. But at the same time, I also know how difficult it is. It is so difficult, and I wish people could understand. Like, that moment is so stressful. It's happening in literally a split second, and we're all just out there trying to do our best.
- [77:33]
B
And bonus points for motivating us after drawing up the play. Like, if you rah rah on us, too. That's hard as hell.
- [77:39]
A
It's hard as hell.
- [77:40]
B
Now, my question is, though, with those VR glasses, would they charge the same price for courtside tickets?
- [77:44]
A
I am not aware. I only did the demo.
- [77:47]
B
All right.
- [77:47]
A
But I did get a free pair.
- [77:48]
B
That's a premium seat.
- [77:50]
A
Give me a free pair. Okay. I do have one game before we get to the game, though. Just real quick. You've worn many hats. MVP champion, union president, voting rights advocate. What message do you want to leave with everyone here at Tech Futures 2025 about the role technology should play in advancing women's sports and creating a more equitable future? Madam President.
- [78:13]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think that we are in the future that we've always hoped for, and especially for women in sport. We've dreamt of days and times where we are the main thing, you know, and we owe it to the amplification of who we naturally are through tech. You know, whether it's as simple as social media and hearting a comment or even me being able to come in and jump into the hyperbaric chamber at my facility in Seattle. You know, there's so many different ways that this is enhancing the game, and we all play a part in it. Whether we're using or creating or inventing any aspect of tech, we have to contribute to it. But I think what I want to impart upon everyone or what I want to leave with everyone today is that we have to also continue to see representation of that tech that is helping us grow. So the tech that we use is gonna work better if someone who looks and lives, my experience is contributing to it, whether it's also being used, whether it's also being created in that way, if it's also being branded in a way for us to be able to continue to help this beautiful thing that is women's sports grow. And I want to be a part of it, even if we are are just consumers, because like I said, I'm a millennial. That's not going to get left behind. And we don't want anyone to get left behind. So we're all contributors to this innovation that we're experiencing in women's sports.
- [79:44]
A
Well said. Okay. I usually don't play games on Bird's eye view. This is usually a touch more thing. And we usually do bench star cut.
- [79:52]
B
But today I'm going to thank God for that one. I'm so glad you're not doing that one.
- [79:56]
A
We did WNBA couples yesterday with Natasha Cloud. That was a doozy. Okay. I made this game up. So the name of the game is who said it.
- [80:06]
B
Perfect.
- [80:06]
A
I'm gonna read you a quote. Oh, God. It's from the WNBA ecosystem.
- [80:11]
B
Okay.
- [80:12]
A
And you gotta tell me who said it.
- [80:13]
B
All right?
- [80:13]
A
And we're gonna start off super easy.
- [80:15]
B
Okay.
- [80:16]
A
Who said, I'll see you in the lobby later.
- [80:19]
B
DT in the bubble.
- [80:20]
A
That's correct.
- [80:21]
B
Yeah.
- [80:22]
A
Okay, this next player said, I'm in a Birkin right now, so I gotta make sure I don't drop down to a target bag. I gotta stay in my Birkin.
- [80:29]
B
That's Courtney Williams.
- [80:30]
A
That is correct. Last year's playoff run. Okay. Describing her gay teammates defense, this player said, the way she can just get her hands on balls. And that's a woman with a wife.
- [80:44]
B
Oh, my God.
- [80:48]
A
No influence.
- [80:49]
B
Okay.
- [80:49]
A
No influence. That was wrong, by the way.
- [80:51]
B
Oh, it was wrong.
- [80:52]
A
Yeah.
- [80:52]
B
Okay, where did I hear this? Oh, my God.
- [81:00]
A
She's currently still playing.
- [81:03]
B
Oh, Asia.
- [81:05]
A
Yes, that is correct. Asia Wilson said this about Chelsea Gray.
- [81:09]
B
About Chelsea. I knew who it was about. I just couldn't remember. Okay. Anyway, go ahead.
- [81:12]
A
Okay. Next up, at halftime of the 2025 All Star Game, when asked about giving her team a pep talk, this player joked, oh, no, we're going to listen to Glorilla, maybe get a drink.
- [81:24]
B
Oh, that's Caitlin Clark.
- [81:25]
A
That is Caitlin Clark. Correct. I need like a ding, ding, ding. Okay, two more.
- [81:30]
B
Okay.
- [81:31]
A
Also, during the 2025 All Star Game halftime show, this was said to describe the lack of defense she was Seeing. Because like a. Sorry. Because like a girls trip to Cancun right now. There's no D. L. That was L, Duncan.
- [81:49]
B
Ding, ding, ding.
- [81:50]
A
Your sister Cheney followed that up with Elle. You're in timeout.
- [81:55]
B
She did.
- [81:55]
A
You're in time out. She did. Okay, last game. What?
- [81:59]
B
I like this game.
- [82:00]
A
Oh, really?
- [82:01]
B
Yeah.
- [82:01]
A
I have to keep it. Okay. All right. Last but not least.
- [82:05]
B
Okay.
- [82:06]
A
Quote. I told myself to just let the game come to me. If I try to force it, it's like forcing a fart. All you get is shit.
- [82:15]
B
Oh, my God. I know this quote.
- [82:24]
A
Someone's cackling over there. Never heard that one before.
- [82:28]
B
I heard this live. I can't. Who said. When was it said?
- [82:33]
A
This season.
- [82:34]
B
This season, Right?
- [82:35]
A
This was said, I think. Don't quote me.
- [82:38]
B
Was this kp?
- [82:39]
A
No. Oh, this was said right around the time that her team had lost by 50, 53 points. But it was after All Star break, so.
- [82:47]
B
Oh, was this Asia, too?
- [82:48]
A
This is Asia, too.
- [82:48]
B
Yeah. This is Asia, too. Ding, ding, ding. Yeah.
- [82:50]
A
She followed it with. So I just really learned to be patient with myself. So that's good advice. Oh, my God. See?
- [82:57]
B
No mustard on my hot dog. None of those quotes were mine.
- [83:00]
A
Honestly, it took. I knew a lot. I knew all these quotes. These ones came from straight from the dome. I tried to search some quotes. Not easy. They were giving me all bullshit. It wasn't easy to find funny ones. I should have found one of yours.
- [83:11]
B
There's no. I don't have a lot of, you know, minor crib. Mine are the crib.
- [83:15]
A
I could have quote you from some of the zooms when we were.
- [83:17]
B
Yeah, I was saying some crazy shit on the zooms. No, that wasn't crazy, but, like, a characteristic of me.
- [83:23]
A
One time I did listen. What you learn. Back to negotiations for a second. We have two minutes. What you learn is sometimes, you know, the loudest voice in the room feels like the majority of people, but it's not. And so that was happening a little bit during some of our negotiations. They were on zoom. Cause it was during the pandemic, and there was just this one time where Neca was like, you just snatched them up. Cause someone was basically saying, well, if we ask for X, what if they give it to us? And Neca went off mute and went, then you get what you want. I was actually. Then you got what you asked for. We were all like, damn. And you know on zoom when you're trying to keep a straight face. I was like.
- [84:04]
B
Cause, I mean, they. I mean.
- [84:05]
A
No, no, it Was. It was the best thing that happened in my life at that point.
- [84:08]
B
But also too, like. I mean, I just think about, like, all the meetings and the calls we were on and how, like, we were like, we had to get. We had to have some balls to get on. Actually, I say we had to have ovaries to get on that Zoom call. I say that instead. But when we had to talk to the board of governors like that, to me, that was the hardest call I've ever had to make, honestly.
- [84:30]
A
Why don't you tell everybody about that call?
- [84:31]
B
Yeah. So we were negotiating because, like, you know, the pandemic was in full effect, and we were trying to figure out what this bubble was gonna look like. So we were going back and forth with the players. I mean, there were low key mutinies, and they're like, people were doing some crazy things. And so I was like, okay, let me just try to reign everybody in. I'm talking with sue, like, we have each other on speed dial. We're talking to each other at, like 2am and it gets to a point where we're like, okay, what do you guys want? And they're like, we want to dedicate this season to say her name in Black Lives Matter, and we want 100% of our pay. And so that's the call that she's referencing. And so, you know, we get to a point where we're like, all right, well, we're gonna do what we can. We're gonna ask for it. We're gonna say that the season's not happening unless this happens. And so it gets to a point where someone's like, well, what if they give it to us? I'm like, well, damn, you get what you asked for? You asked. You said that's what you want. But I really do think people didn't think that we could get it.
- [85:25]
A
I know. And then we had to present that.
- [85:26]
B
We had to present that whole thing.
- [85:28]
A
To the board of governors.
- [85:29]
B
And then their response, we went through this whole, like, okay, sue, you say this. Okay, Nekki, you say this. After we went through our whole spiel, they were like, okay. And like, when I tell you, like, we're texting, so we're like, we're on the side.
- [85:41]
A
Well, again, when you're trying to keep a straight face on Zoom, but you're.
- [85:44]
B
Texting on the bottom like, oh, my God. Oh, my God.
- [85:46]
A
Texting on the bottom like, oh, my God. They just said, okay.
- [85:49]
C
Then we hang up and we call.
- [85:50]
B
Back, and we're like, hey.
- [85:54]
A
There was actually some tear shed, that border club.
- [85:56]
B
Yeah, yeah. It was.
- [85:57]
A
There was like a real bonding moment.
- [85:59]
B
It was.
- [85:59]
A
It was between us and the other.
- [86:02]
B
It was. It was a moment.
- [86:03]
A
It was a moment. And so is today.
- [86:05]
B
Thanks.
- [86:06]
A
Give it up for neca everybody. Thank you for your time, your wisdom as always.
- [86:10]
B
Thanks everyone.
- [86:11]
A
Thank you to Tech Futures. Yes, that's it for birthday. Thanks Tech Futures. Thank you guys. This episode is a co production of Together and Vox Media. Our producers are Tommy Alter, Jason Gallagher, Richie Bozick, Harry Krinsky, Jess Clarendon and Melanie Kate Carter. Support for Bird's Eye View comes from the all electric Toyota bz. The true test of a first rate intellect is the ability to change one's mind. That's a quote from me. I just made it up. But it sounds good, doesn't it? So maybe it's time to revisit your thoughts on battery electric vehicles with the all electric Toyota bz. I've already told you about a few of its amazing features. Its EPA estimated driving range rating up to 314 miles. Its versatile charging capabilities available premium JBL9 speaker audio system. Its sleek and chiseled design. So I won't repeat myself. All I'll say is go check it out for yourself. The all electric BZ1 drive can change your mind. Learn more@toyota.com BZ Toyota let's go places. I'm really pleased that the Jane Goodall Collection with Brilliant Earth connects to my vision of how we can live in harmony with nature. Every choice we make ripples outward and you can choose what sort of impact you make. I know that the things I've worked for all my life will carry on. Discover the Jane Goodall Collection exclusively at Brilliant Earth. I'm Beth Gerstein, co founder and CEO of Brilliant Earth. Our partnership with Dr. Jane Goodall has always been deeply personal, reflecting our shared mission to protect people and the planet for future generations for a limited time. In honor of Jane's life and legacy, 100% of net proceeds from the Jane Goodall Collection will support the Jane Goodall Legacy Foundation Fund's critical conservation work.