← Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Sandy Brondello on Leaving the New York Liberty, Coaching Philosophies, and Her Basketball Career
01:13:08
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A
But it really was something that, like embedded that. And I don't know if you know this, you introduced me to avocados.
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B
Oh, seriously?
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A
Really seriously?
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B
Yeah.
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A
You lived next to me that one year and you were like, here, try this avocado toast. I was like, what is this magical green stuff on this toasted piece of bread? So, oh well. Work ethic and avocado. Hey everybody. Welcome back to Bird's Eye View. Today's guest is one of the sharpest basketball minds in the game, a player turned coach whose journey spans from Australia to the wnba. She's an Olympian herself, a former All Star, a WNBA champion coach, and according to Alexa Filippo of espn, she has recently agreed to terms to becoming the first head coach of the Toronto Tempo, one of the WNBA's newest franchises. Calm, detailed and always about winning the right way. I'm talking about none other than Sandy Rondello. But before we hop into that interview, you know what time it is. It is time for Sue's View. Support for Bird's Eye View comes from the all electric Toyota BZ. What would convince you to go electric? An EPA estimated driving range rating up to 314 miles. Versatile charging capability, compatible with most public chargers. Available Premium JBL9 speaker audio. With the all electric Toyota BZ you can get all of the above and more. Available all wheel drive models with X mode and grip control give you enhanced traction and the BZ's portable dual voltage charging cable gives you flexibility to power up the way you want. The all electric BZ OneDrive can change your mind. Learn more at toyota.com BZ Toyota let's go places.
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A
For Sue's View this week, I'm just going to take a couple of questions that you guys have been asking throughout the course of the season. So let me get right to it. Actually, this one is what excites you most about the Toronto Tempo joining the league and how can they be successful? I think what's most exciting about, you know, a team in Toronto joining is that it's a team in Canada. This is a country that has had so many great basketball players come out of it, a country that loves this sport. And so for them to have a WNBA franchise is really exciting. It actually does officially make the WNBA global, which is also exciting. But I think it's also, I know Monica Wright Rogers, the GM there, I know some of the executives there, and I know they're going to build this in the best way possible. Obviously, they're connected to the Raptors as well. So I just think all the arrows point to this being a really valuable franchise in our league. So I'm excited. And for them personally, they're coming in at a good time. All these vets are free agents. They're going to get probably some, you know, expansion draft picks, so they're in a good spot. All right, next up, have you ever felt insecure for your development as a basketball player? Huh? Great question. So actually my first thought is when I watch the game today, you can, you can start to see the emphasis that has been put on really for all players to work on their individual game to add things, to continue to add. And that just wasn't the case when I was growing up. Of course you worked on ball handling and shooting, but to constantly add new moves or add new ways to play the game, that wasn't always the focus. So sometimes I do wonder, like, oh, what would have my training had been like in my early days if I was really focused on those things and what kind of player could I have eventually been? So I don't know if insecure is the right way, but I do get curious sometimes of what it could have been like, you know, if I could have like added to my bag a little bit more. But luckily later in my career, I did have like a five, six year period where that was becoming the focus. And I did get to experience it a little bit. And I do have this one story where I don't even know what I was working on. I think like some ball handling into a floater. Things that I had never done before. I was doing it at UW University of Washington in their practice court and Kelsey Plumb happened to be there and she was like, hey, can I watch you work out? And it was a moment where, you know, if you've ever tried to do something new, you're probably going to be terrible at it. And I remember thinking, like, do I want this kid to watch me try to do this? And that is when I felt insecure. But I was like, you know what? This is a Part of it. Come on in. See how bad I am at this. And then maybe in five years, I'll.
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B
Be good at it.
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A
All right, Last but not least favorite nickname you've had, and least favorite nickname. Well, my nicknames are based around my last name, as we know. Whether it's Birdie. Honestly, Sue Bird, as one word, is kind of a nickname. So those are my favorites. I think my least favorite slash, maybe just the most ridiculous. When I was in college, I was playing in a game. I had my shot blocked really badly. Like, really badly. Like soul crushingly bad. And I was mad. I was mad about it. On our way back down on defense or my way back down on defense, the player who had blocked my shot was running a little bit ahead of me. And in a I went black kind of moment, I. I just cut across, like, the backside of her and clipped her leg on purpose. I'm owning it now. And I tripped her. It's true. I did it. And one of the assistants at UConn, Jamel Elliott, caught this on film, pulled me in her office, showed it to me, and she's like, did you do this on purpose? And I said, uh huh. And from that moment on, she called me Sue Beast. So it was no longer Sue Bird. It was Sue Beast. The funny thing is, is, like, literally later that year, a year later, I clipped somebody's leg, but totally by accident. And she obviously just doubled down on it. She didn't believe me, but I swear I'll own it when I do it. Anyways, I love your guys questions whenever you send them in, so always keep them coming. But that's it for Sue's view. And let's get to the interview. Hey, Sandy, welcome to the show. You've had a busy few weeks with a lot of changes, but I have to take you back because not everybody knows your full story. They might know your playing career or how you've helped build championship teams in Phoenix and New York, but your basketball journey started, like, well before that. It started on a sugar cane farm. Does that ring a bell?
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B
Yeah.
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A
Your dad literally built you a basketball court. So I need to hear more about that. What's up with this basketball court?
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B
Okay, we're going all the way back. Hey.
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A
Oh, you don't even know what I got prepared for you.
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B
I had to start somewhere. But look, my. I grew up outside of Mackay, Queensland, in a very small sugar cane community. Yeah. So, you know, had to help on the farm. I think that's why I was pretty strong as a young kid, you know, had lifting pipes and mud and, you name it, rocks and helping on the farm as much as we can. But look, my mum actually couldn't drive. She couldn't drive. So I lived about 40 minutes outside of the city to go into practice. So. And my dad was busy and the, you know, there's a sugar cane has to be cut, you know, to get the sugar has to. There's a, it's like a six, seven month window there. So he couldn't always take me to practice. So he decided to build something in the, on the water tank at the back. And it really, it wasn't a board. He actually put pieces of, you know, boards, connected them together, painted it white, put the, you know, the black square on and bought a hoop and that was it. Now I really couldn't do any layouts because I'd be taken out by the water tank. So I think that's how, you know, everyone talks about my pull up game and my one bounce pull up because it was on a grass court. So that's as many dribbles I could have.
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A
The variety of things that shaped you from that, I can only imagine. There's so many directions to go into. I'm curious what my excuse is for not shooting layups, but that's a whole other story.
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B
Is it your statue? Layup? Come on.
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A
Yeah, that's why I picked it. The irony of it all. Okay, so when you think back to that, you know, obviously growing up in Australia, what are some of your biggest influences or like mentors early on, I mean, clearly your parents gave you an opportunity, but outside of that.
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B
Yeah, yeah, obviously everyone says their parents and it's very true for me. And you know, they gave me everything that I could live out my dreams and forever grateful for that. But like at the age of 17, I went to the Australian Institute of Sport, which is now known as the center of Excellence, where the great Lauren Jackson, all of them, Penny Taylor, you name it, they all went there. And you know, I was pretty shy kid growing up, 50 kids, went to my whole school in elementary school, so, you know, it was just, you know, comfortable around them and. But went to the AIs and there was a coach there named Adrian Hurley. He was also the Australian men's coach at the time, but he coached the women's team, which was great for me. And you know, the first month I got there, he goes, you're gonna play for Australia. And I'm like, really? You know, so look, I think he just believed in me then. I probably believed in myself at that stage and it came true like 9 months year later, you know, I made my first Opals team, so. And then played for the opals for 17 years. So I think that just to having to believe in you, it goes a long way. Yeah.
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A
So real quick, like, I don't know if a lot of Americans, to be honest understand like what the institute is now called. Surprise. Surprise.
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B
Center of Excellence.
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A
The center of Excellence. Center of Excellence, yeah. So can you just give, like. Cause it is really unique. Like it does have some similarities to college, but the team that you have there plays in the pro league.
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B
Yeah, yeah, it did back in those days. And look, I think that's most of nearly all the Opals, you know, the ones that I coach now and the ones back in, you know, my day, we all went through the AIs, so it was, you know, all the. We're very sporty in Australia, you know, we want to be good. So at a young age you're targeted. And if they think that you can play for Australia or compete at the world level, you know, you get offered a scholarship to go and train, you know, semi professional but really professional, you're not getting paid at the same times I had already, I stayed one year longer because I didn't want to leave my mom in, in back in those days. So I'd finished my secondary schooling and I went to university. So you know, part time university, like full time practice and we just practice every single day. We had all the, every, everything that we needed there. The, you know, obviously the facilities, the coaching, the strength and conditioning, the biomechanics, the psychology, everything is in one spot. And you know, I think it's, I suppose I don't know your Olympic training. I don't know if that's similar up in Colorado or not. But all sports were there back in the day at the ies. Not as much now with the Centre of Excellence, but you know, you're around, you know, we had netballers, tennis, soccer, swimming. Everyone is in one spot. And you know, I loved it. I was there for two years. It really helped me become a better player because I come from a very small country town. I had really good coaches, but obviously, you know, I needed to continue to grow and learn the game and that's where I did it. The AIs, the Australian Institute of Sport.
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A
Honestly, it sounds fun. It sounds like the Olympic Village. A little bit like you're there, you're doing your thing. I guess you have to go to class from time to time, but yeah.
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B
It'S kind of fun. Yeah, we did that. And you're just around, you know, just working hard and you get to see all these other sports and yeah, it's a bit like college but just all athletes. So you know what that's like, that's, that can be fun.
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A
That's actually the only, the only similarity, and this is for the college athletes that are listening is the summertime. So when you're in college, you stay around in the summertime, it's usually all athletes. We're the only ones taking summer classes, we're working out. That's, that's the only, only similarity. So Sandy, for those that don't know, describe yourself as a player.
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B
Oh, okay, here we go. You can tell me if I'm, I describe myself as well as. Keep you honest. Look, I think more offense than def. I could shoot the ball but particularly my best play was a one bounce pull up and you know, as I developed my game and I extended that to the three point line, but I could shoot, I could score in a variety of ways. Very rarely layups. So, so you know, just, I was continually moving. I think that was my biggest asset. I think my conditioning was elite that, you know, I'm, you know, obviously like you, I'm not that tall, I'm 5 7. So I used to move around a lot and find gaps and I really spent a lot of time on my shots. So yeah, that was my biggest strength. But a high iq. I was smart on defence, you know, I don't think I was, you know, the best defensive player, but I was smart. I understand that. Yeah.
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A
No, when I think back to, and we only got to play together one year, it was your final year in the WNBA. I think you were like 36, if that sounds right.
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B
Yeah, I retired at. Yeah, 35, 36.
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A
Yeah, 35, 36. My memories of you are just how you explained it, albeit understanding, like obviously I learned this later in my career, but I even knew it in that moment that all that I was seeing as a 36 year old, I can only imagine what it was as a 21 year old, as a 25 year old, as a 30 year old. Right. So even though it was an older version of you, my main takeaways outside of your shooting, how smart you were on defense was, how fit you were, like your work ethic, how fit you were and really being totally honest, the way you took care of yourself, it was kind of like a joke. Again, as a 23 year old I was like, oh, Sandy's getting another massage. And then you know, of Course fast forward to when I'm 33 and I'm basically, it's like 10 years later, I'm getting all the massages. But it really was something that, like embedded that. And I don't know if you know this, you introduced me to avocados.
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B
Oh, seriously?
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A
Really seriously?
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B
Yeah.
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A
You lived next to me that one year and you were like, here, try this avocado toast. I was like, what is this magical green stuff on this toasted piece of bread? So work ethic and avocado on our farm.
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B
Yeah, grew em on our farm. And then it's like, okay. I never liked him in the beginning either, but my mum used to have it. I used to think it was gross, but then I'm like, oh, this is actually quite tasty. There you go. I didn't know that. That's a. Yeah, fun fact.
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A
We have a lot of fun facts coming your way.
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B
Oh, here we go.
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A
So Sandy, I don't know if you know this, but you're actually still like one of the top three point shooters in WNBA history. Like percentage wise, you shot 41% for your career.
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B
Didn't take enough, I suppose. Hey, should have shot more.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we could make that argument. So you're technically like top 10, but a lot of the people who are ahead of you are like, they've been in the league like one or two years. So I'm like, I don't really count.
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B
It, I don't think. How many threes did I take at those games? Here's a fact. Because when I was playing, remember the three point line, wasn't it? And when the three point line come in, it was a mental block for me, even though I could shoot that far out. We're like, oh, that's a long way out. I don't know if I shoot that. And then really.
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A
Wait, what year was this? Oh, back in the day.
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B
Yeah. I was in Germany. I know that because a great coach named Olaf Lang helped me, you know, work on overcoming that Lange champion. Oh, gosh, I do remember that. Flashbacks.
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A
That's how the Russians would celebrate Olaf, who was our head coach in Ekaterinburg, when we'd win the championship.
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B
Yeah, that was. Yeah, that was good times. Good times. Yeah, we've got, we've had a lot of crossover here. But once I got over that, it was like, oh, that's so easy. I'm just pulling up and transition. That was my favorite shot.
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A
Yeah, so you mentioned, listen, we've already talked about. You played in Australia, you mentioned playing in Germany. So at what point are you hearing about the wnba and at what point are you like, I want to put my name in the draft or I want to get to this league?
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B
Yeah, Look, I think 19 just have to go back. When did it start? 1990. When did the league start again?
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A
Yeah, 1997.
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B
Yeah, 1997. Obviously, I was close friends with Michelle Timms, and she was going to be one of the original franchise players. And Timsy and I were playing with each other in Germany, and I'm like, oh, I'm going to come and visit you. So Olaf and I took a trip over there and it just blew my mind. You know, I loved. I've always, you know, I've loved this game since the age of nine. Still love it, even though if I'm in different capacity now. But we went over to Phoenix and it just blew my mind, like, walking down. Down the street like, Tims, he's got this, you know, blonde hair and. And like she's just been followed by people. It was just crazy. And not. That's why I played the game. And I want, you know, in that regard.
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A
No, but the Mercury, the Phoenix Mercury, early.
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B
Yeah, yeah, they had a huge 13,000 people. You know, they were great. It was great. And, you know, for me, it's more like, hey, I want to play in this league. And then it happened. The year after 1998, I was drafted in the fourth round. I don't think they all, you know, I thought I was a little higher than that.
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A
I don't think they knew who you were.
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B
Yeah, they didn't know.
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A
Yeah, the international scouting wasn't what. It wasn't what it is today, let's be honest.
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B
But, yeah, I was drafted by the Detroit Shock in the fourth round and loved it. Nancy Lieberman was my head coach and, you know, I just loved it. Loved competing against the best.
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A
What were some of the harder adjustments and transitions on the court, like going from international play to now being a play against Americans, predominantly.
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B
Yeah, look, I. Because I. National team, you know, I was playing against the Dawn Staleys and Cheryl Swoopes and, you know, all that Nicky McRae. And you had that experience. So it's more like. Yeah, I'd like to, you know, get used to playing them day in, day out. Yeah. Just loved it. Wasn't a big thing. Cause I was strong enough. I talked about my life on the farm, but I was strong.
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A
No, no, you were strong as hell. You were strong as hell. Yeah, I was strong.
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B
I was strong. I was fast. I was, you Know stuff like that. So I just, you know, I just enjoyed it. I don't think it was really hard. I think the hardest part for me, when we. We had the World cup in 1998. Weird. But before the season, I believe, because we went into a training camp with Nancy Leverman, and no joke, she trained us for five hours straight. And I thought I was going to die. And I'm fit. Like, we do fitness testing in between. And I'm like. And I'm like. I said, I don't know if I can keep doing this. She goes, don't run so hard. You don't have to be number one. I'm like, that's not how I work. I have to be at the front. I'm a guard. Unless I was. If you go back to 2003, when, remember we did those 17s and I was coming back from an injury, I think you. You lapped me. But then when we played, I was fine.
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A
I have a story about that, by the way. That was Daniel Shapiro, who was our strength and conditioning coach. Now Daniel's with the Clippers. He. He told Ann Donovan to do that test.
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B
Really?
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A
Yeah. We had never done it before. We'd never did it after. It was like his big. And I was like, bro, everybody plays overseas. This is unnecessary.
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B
Died. I was dying. I was out injured with my. I was coming off an injury and hadn't done that, but I was dying. I was like, here we go. Come on. You're not old. Keep going.
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A
Daniel's fault.
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B
Good to know.
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A
So, yeah, we're taking it back to your. Keeping it in your Detroit days. I mean to say, in 1999, you played in the first WNBA All Star Game ever. And you've kind of already touched on. Just like, you're there at the start. You're obviously still in the WNBA now. There's been so much growth. But that All Star Game was big. Like, it's at Samasta's door. Garden. Whitney Houston sings the national anthem. And we're similar in that we've seen the league. We were in the league when it was big, when it was owned by NBA teams, when you stay at the best hotels, when everybody had a practice facility. And then obviously, you know, we went through the years where it's been all over the place. So now to see it kaboom in the way that it has. Can you even put into words just, like, the growth you've seen over the last couple years?
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B
Yeah, it has been amazing. It's like I said, I've been in what, 30. It's 30 years next year. And I missed three years and one was the first year and two Olympic years that I sat out and then I retired. But for me, it's, you know, I love this game and I love that the players are finally getting the recognition that they deserve. But, you know, back in the day, we had amazing players. We talked about that first WNBA All Star game, and you look at that picture and I think it's actually on the wall behind me. I can show you later. But, you know, Lisa Leslie, you know, Cynthia Cooper, Cheryl Swoopes, and you name it, these are just big time players. But, you know, for now it's, you know, it's. It just wasn't the time. We had great following those early years and you talked about things kind of change, ownership kind of changed and. But now we're back where we are now and it's exciting. It's exciting to be a part of. It's exciting to see obviously the media deal that we're getting and, you know, just people. The amount of people that come to the games and having, you know, obviously coached in New York these last four years. And it's been, you know, it's been an amazing ride and it's. And it's great to see because, you know, this is. The players deserve it.
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A
Yeah, no, it has been amazing to see. I'm gonna keep you in your playing days for just like a couple more minutes before we get to, you know, what has become a legendary coaching career. But here's another fun fact for you. As I was doing my little research. So played for Detroit in the expansion draft. You went to Miami, but you actually got picked by Indiana, the Indiana Fever, first.
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B
Yeah, I did.
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A
And do you know who you got traded for?
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B
Yes. Stephanie White.
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A
Stephanie White.
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B
You're doing your research.
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A
These are just like. Yeah, I mean, it's in your Wikipedia. It's not even that.
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B
Okay, there you go.
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A
But I was just like, what? That's so. It's just like, what an interesting kind of. I mean, you coached Becky when she was a player. It's just like all. All the ways in which we're all connected is so interesting. So, yeah, so you get traded to Miami. You get to spend just that, a couple seasons in Miami.
- [23:01]
B
Two years. So I was drafted in. They drafted me. Well, traded for me in 2000, but I was sitting out that year. But I'm like, yes, this is so awesome. So I had two years and then the team folded. Can you believe that?
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A
People don't know how Good. That trip was. That was a great trip. Going to Miami and Orlando. You would, like, get both. That was a great trip. That was a great trip. But, yeah, I thought that was a fun little fact. And then as I already mentioned, you end up finishing your WNBA career with Seattle, but you got to play with Lauren. You got to play with Tully, you know, fellow Aussies. Like, what was that experience like to be able to finish with them?
- [23:36]
B
Yeah, no, it was great. Look, I was coming off an injury, another stress fracture in my foot, and when Miami folded, then I was like, okay, I'm kind of a free agent now, and, you know, I got to go in Seattle and I got to play with you, starting back court with you. And, you know, Lauren was. She was MVP that year. I don't think we made the playoffs, so we weren't that good.
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A
She might be like one of the only MVPs who didn't make the playoffs.
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B
Exactly. But she was pretty good. She carried us. But look, and it's great, you know, obviously, when I was drafted with Detroit, I was drafted with one of my best friends, Rachel Spawn and Kayla Boyd. So that makes the transition easier when you've got, you know, but now it's a global game. I think we all, because of how we played and coached all around the world, we get to know so many people. So it's. It's so much easier. Now.
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A
What are some of your, if you have any, like, favorite LJ memories?
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B
Are we allowed to talk about that on here? Love, lj. Love lj. I mean, yeah, we go way back, don't we? We went to the Aussie pub nearly every day. I think if I can remember. I can remember you myself, that. Yeah.
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A
I remember that you came into practice, it was literally like. Like a third degree burn down the side of your chin. Like, what happened.
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B
Yeah, Lauren still talks about that, but look, I had some good times. Like, I love that. I love playing basketball, but it's the memories, you know, you remember the journey with the people, you know, and it was. It was just fun. I know we didn't make the playoffs, but, you know, being around Lauren, she's. She's always a good time. So our friendship's been, you know, it's obviously started when she was 16, you know, sitting on her mum's lap at the World cup, going, okay, you're a little too big for that. But, you know, just. Just mentoring her a little bit and just watching greatness was like, well, okay, she's pretty good. And then, you know, full circle comes back after having two kids and worked her butt off. Cause she was a little overweight to come back. And she surprised me. But I'm like, hey, you're Lauren Jackson. And she did it and she came back and, you know, helped us win a World cup bronze and you know, in an Olympic medal. So I woke up, I woke up.
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A
For that World cup bronze run.
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B
Did you really? That was amazing.
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A
Lauren had like the game of her life against Canada. It was like. I was literally. It was like, I have 3:00am I was like, megan, Megan, you gotta wake up.
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B
I was like, it's incredible.
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A
It's like, it's literally like out of the movie Caddyshack when the guy plays this like perfect golf game. It was insane watching her play that game.
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B
And it was like somebody. I can remember, she was at 28 points and she's going spaga, you know, so that's my nickname. And you know, I'm like, not Sandy. Hey, Sandy, do you. I'm your coach. No, I'm not only kidding, but she's going spaga. I'm tired. You got to take me out. I'm like, no, no, you got to get two more points.
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A
You'Ll be fine.
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B
But that was an amazing, amazing. And just, just shows how great she is. I mean, and tough.
- [26:41]
A
Yeah. Oh, no, incredibly tough. So many good memories with Lauren. But you know, your national team career, not so shabby. Did you know you're the third most capped Australian player that includes 302 Games, four Olympics. You've got two silvers to your name, one bronze, four World Cups, two bronze medals. With that, what does it mean to you? You've already talked about how very early the seed got planted for you to represent your country. When you look back, like, obviously you're still doing it as a coach, but as a player, what did that mean to you?
- [27:14]
B
Yeah, I mean, everyone talks about what's your greatest highlight. And for me, it was playing for Australia, you know, and putting the green and gold on, including the bodysuits, but did that. But like, you know, I tried one.
- [27:27]
A
Of those on once. Yeah, there's a picture somewhere.
- [27:31]
B
Not happening.
- [27:32]
A
Lauren probably has it.
- [27:33]
B
Lauren. Lauren loved it. But you know, she looked great in it too. But look, I think those just representing your country and you know, that's probably the highlight of my career and. But, you know, it stacks up there. I loved playing, you know, it was hard people, you know, I waited until I retired to had children because I wanted to be a mum. But I'm like, no, no, no, this is, you know I want to be, you know, achieve everything I can in the game. And it gave me so much. And I mean, it still does. So, you know, I'm. It's pretty cool that I'm still a part of this great game of ours. And at the age of what. How old am I? 57.
- [28:10]
A
You're 57.
- [28:12]
B
I know. Can you believe that?
- [28:13]
A
I would never have guessed that. I mean, I know the math too. I just said I know when I played with you, I know I was 23. I know you were 36. But wow, you look great. Still fit. I see you.
- [28:23]
B
Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to get back in the gym. Once I'm back in Phoenix during the season, I don't work out so much but you know, tired, but yeah, just a little bit busy.
- [28:33]
A
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- [32:15]
A
You really are, in reality, you're only like one of a few former players that have like truly made the transition, have had longevity on both sides. I think the Athens Olympics was like your last playing for the national team. You kind of transitioned into coaching at that point. What made you want to be a coach?
- [32:34]
B
I loved it. I just loved the game. And it was, you know, I suppose I my boyfriend, fiance, now husband, you know, was a head coach. So when you're around watching the preparation and what goes into it, and I was the kind of a player that took care of my body and studied, you know, my opponent and, you know, everything. And you know, it was my passion and it still is and I still love it. Even with the highs and the lows that come with it. I just love it because it's given me so much and allowed me to be the person that I am today. But yeah, I thought I knew I was nearing the end of my career. Cause I had too Many injuries. Like, I was getting tired of, like, okay, this is crazy, you know, stress. I talk about three stress fractures in my navicular. And it just got hard coming back, and as you get older, it makes it harder and harder too. I'm like, okay, these are all younger ones and I can't keep up with them. But it's like, okay, I want to coach. And I wanted to coach in the highest level. So what I did straight after the, you know, Athens, I was all office coaching in Valencia at that time, and I was just reaching out. And there was two job openings. One was in New York and the other one was at the San Antonio Silver Stars with Dan Hughes. And, you know, we just hit it off and he gave me a job. And forever grateful for that because that started this journey and here I still am.
- [33:48]
A
What did you bring with you from that player's mindset? Like, what about being a player did you take with you into coaching and how did that prepare you?
- [33:57]
B
Actually, yeah, look, you know, obviously being, you know, 18 years being around some amazing athletes, and not just my preparation, but their preparation, and then the playing in the Olympic Games and the World Cups and experiencing different cultures, you know, you take a little bit of everything, to be quite honest, but in the end, what you see is what you get. You know, you've known me for quite some time. I don't think I've changed too much. I am who I am and I say it's my authentic. I'm very genuine and my values haven't changed from when I was a kid. I treat people as I want to be treated, but I think I know the game of basketball and. But I'm continually to, you know, the game changes. So it's just evolving with it and being open minded and being surrounded by great people that, you know, can expire, inspire to be better and, you know, still have, you know, I love continuing to grow, like in the, in the leadership, you know, area. And I've got some great mentors as well. So it's been fun being a fun journey and it's not over yet. Still got things I want to achieve. Yeah.
- [34:57]
A
So how would you describe. You kind of talked about your values and I do agree. I think there's like one of those. I don't know if it's a famous quote, but it's definitely a quote I hear often where it's like, wherever you go, there you are, Right? Like, who you are is who you are and it's gonna show up no matter what. So how would you describe Your coaching style and philosophy. Like, what is it that you focus on?
- [35:19]
B
Yeah, look, I think the most important thing. Cause, like, my generation's different than the generation of today, isn't it? And. But I think.
- [35:27]
A
Same even for me.
- [35:28]
B
Yeah. I think I would have matched this generation, you know, better in terms of, you know, as a shy kid growing up and all that. But, you know, it became mentally tough. The coaches were like, more dictators. You're going to do it this way. I'm not like that. I'm. Now I'm, you know, the most important thing for me, taking over any kind of team is just building relationships and not just getting to know players and, you know, building that trust and the respect, because it goes both ways. And I told you, like, I'm not a dictator. I'm a. You know, I want to be a collaborator. I don't. You know, I think I'm pretty good at what I do, but I always want to be better. And I'm always listening, especially to players. I love their feedback, you know, because they're out in the court and, you know, you always continue to learn. So. And that relationship's the most important thing. From the beginning, Like, I don't come in and saying, I know everything about X's and I's. It's like, no, I'm going to build a relationship. And then culture isn't big for me, you know, if you like. I think that's, you know, just, you know, one of the values. And it's not my culture. People say, you know, I know that name's. It's thrown out there a lot, isn't it? It's more like, well, what kind of team do you want to be? So it's not my team. It's what the players decide. It's the value. So then. Then it's our job. So I can hold them accountable to what those values are, because that's. What kind of legacy do we want to leave? I think that's important because, team, you have to. You need alignment, you know, for everybody. So whatever the players agree on, I mean, it's alignment from everybody, including the coaching, the performance, the front office. And I think that's important. And then it's X's and O's. I think, you know, I think I've been in this game as a player and as a coach, and, you know, I've continued to learn. You know, my Phoenix team played differently than the New York team because of the players that we had and the evolution of the game and, you know, the Versatility, how players continue to get better and the modern game. You know, everyone talks about pace and space and. But you still have to be adaptable to put your players in the best spots to have success. And that's always a challenge and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But being adaptable, I think that's important as a coach. But the collaboration piece is important for me as well too, because if I don't know the answers to it, I'm going to try and find it and ask people that do. And I don't have to be the smartest person in the room, but I think I know how to lead and get the best out of players. So I think that's, you know, that's how I am. But I always want to continue to get better, you know, and that's what I love about this game because it continually changes.
- [37:57]
A
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think the times that I'm asked like, you know, generically, what traits do you like to see in a coach? The first word is adaptability. Like you have to be able to, or else it's just going to be like, you know, square hole, round peg kind of a vibe where if you're just trying to make players be like you, be like you. So you have to have some of that in you. So I couldn't agree more. Do you think, given that every coach has their own style, their own way, and there's, you know, obviously multiple ways to be successful, do you think the temperament that is required from a coach can be developed? Or do you think that's like an innate thing?
- [38:34]
B
That's a great question because that's probably one thing I didn't talk about, you know, my authentic self. I'm not, I'm very calm. I don't even under pressure. I may be feeling pressure, but you may not see it because I think I'm calm under pressure and I've learned that from my playing career, obviously playing in, you know, getting our butts kicked by USA and gold medal games. But, but, you know, but as it's just my personality, like I don't try and be something that I'm not. And you know, I think I am very calm. I'm more about what's the solution, how do we be better, what's the process and you collaboration part here and can it be taught? Oh, yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. This is who I am. I mean, I don't and I know I say this a lot and people play thing oh, here we go. You know, I don't get too high or too low because I can't let my emotions dictate my decision making.
- [39:30]
A
Do you think you learned that over time, though? Like, was there ever a point, probably more so as a player, maybe as a coach, where it did a little bit and you had to, like, learn that or you just always had it?
- [39:39]
B
Look, I think I've always had it, but sometimes you can go, you know, there's always two forks in the road, isn't there? You can go off court a little bit and you're like, okay. You know, I've coached some really great teams. You know, there's high expectations that I had to. A few years ago, I had to learn, like, to. Even though we didn't play great and we won, I had to find joy in the wins because otherwise it just becomes stress that you're trying to be this perfect team. And when does that happen? You know, you're trying to. You chase perfection, but you're going to, you know, just want to keep getting closer and closer. So I had to remind myself, do I have to enjoy the process as well? And, you know, even then when we didn't win and when we lose, it's more like I have a thing for myself that, like, I can be mad and, you know, not happy, but the next day I've let it go because I focus on what we can control right now. And that just helps me. It's just like, I don't yell at the refs a lot. You know, I try not to in that regard, but occasionally, you know, only because it takes me away from my focus of what I should be doing and seeing what's happening on the court and how I can be effective. And that's probably why I stay calm. Cause I can't do too many things at once while I'm yelling at the officials. That's all I'm worried about.
- [40:51]
A
Right, Right. No, honestly, I'm similar. I mean, like, yeah, you get mad at the refs from time to time, but that's why, like, I wasn't a shit talker. And the minute I was getting too much into the, like, too much focus on the refs, it was taking away from something. But. But over time, you have to learn that. Okay, so you bring up just like this idea of, like, pressure. It exists. And I'm curious, like, when your teams are feeling the pressure of a season or maybe they're hitting adversity at some point in the season, what's your approach? And this is Kind of like a two parter. What's your approach to keeping them focused and confident? But then I'm also curious how you do it for yourself.
- [41:29]
B
No, great. I mean, great question. And I think, look, in the past I've had coaches that when we lost, they would come in and not talk to you. You know, I'm like, okay, that's. I don't know if that's actually really effective leadership. Yeah, it's not about you, it's about us. So, you know, they're the things you learn. Okay, I'm not doing that when I'm a coach. And I don't because, you know, players are already beating themselves out because I was a player, you know, I looked at myself, man, I was bad. So it's more about, you have to keep players confident and on course, but still hold them accountable of how we can be better. So I try and focus on the, you know, the solution, not the problem. Like, okay, this is, you know what, this is what's happening. Well, how do we be better? What's the process for it? So I think that's, I've done that probably my whole career. And I don't blame, you know, I'll take the blame of everything. That's how it should be. I'm the coach, I'm the leader. But I want players to be confident in who they are, but I want them to be heard as well. So I'm always like, hey, so what are you seeing out there? What do you think? We need collaboration because, like, maybe their ideas are better than mine. And that's okay because, you know, we're in this together. And I think that's when, when you see connection and chemistry come together, greatness can really happen. And that's happened, you know, when we 2014, 2024. I mean, doesn't mean the seasons are easy, but when you win, all the adversity, it's helped shape you to be the best team that you can be.
- [42:57]
A
Absolutely. But what about you? Like when you go home, how do you either refocus, deal with the adversity? Does it come in the form of like, let me just distract myself, Let me throw on a movie.
- [43:10]
B
Yeah, probably that. Look, I'm not someone to go back and watch the game straight away. I know what happened. Like, I'm fatigued after a game now as a coach. So when I, you know, I don't want to be around too many people. So the Crown club, I wouldn't be going to the Crown Club. When we lose, I'm out. So Lucky we won a lot more. So I would hang out with, you know, Renee Stubbs and we'd debrief there occasionally, you know. Great. Just someone who's in the, you know, has been there, but, you know, no.
- [43:37]
A
Renee wants to know Renee. This is what I really appreciate talking to Renee. Cause, like, she's genuinely curious and genuinely just wants to understand. So it's actually fun.
- [43:47]
B
No, and it's good for me because, you know, she's in the tennis world and she has coached some amazing athletes as well, too. And that's good for me and like, people, you know, because there's a support. We're friends, you know, she's going to always be honest with me. But I suppose when it's a really bad loss, you know, I don't love it, you know, But I stay sometimes. I'm going to get on the team if it's needed, if I feel there's slippage. But I feel. I think one of the. I think one of the strengths is I. I can see things. I can read things without anything being said. I've been doing this for my whole life. You know, you can kind of work out, okay, I need to go talk to. I know a locker room and I can read a locker room. And, you know, that's why I spent a lot of time in the culture. Because, you know, it has to become your vulnerable space if you're going to, you know, to be the best team that you could be. But I suppose for me, what I would do is typically go back and watch a TV show. And that's how I just let it go. But then I'll go to sleep. Cause I'm. Usually I'll go to sleep easy. Now. As a player, I wouldn't go to sleep. I'd go to sleep like 4am but as a coach, I go to sleep, but then during the night I'll wake up and then it's just replaying over. Oh, I should have done that, you know, but the next day I just had to learn. And maybe that's something I have learned as I've gotten older in my career, is that, you know, you can't win them all. But in the morning, I have to be. I have to move on. Because the players don't need negativity. We need solutions and constructive feedback about, you know, what's the plan for us moving forward and how do we need to get better.
- [45:19]
A
Man, I can't. Being a coach feels so. I just feel like I'd get where I would run into an issue is lack of control. And it's not that. It's not about being a control freak or not. It's just when you're a player, you have so much. Not always, but you're the one doing it. So is that something that was like an adjustment for you? Like now you literally can't go out there and just hit a shot or run the right play or you know, set the screen or whatever. Is that difficult?
- [45:48]
B
Yeah, no, no, it's not really, to be quite honest. Like I, you know. Cause I've been out there in the play and I mean, you're one of the smartest players. It's like, okay, just, you know, these players that can control a game too out there. And for me, like, obviously, you know, you start, you have a system in place that you want, you know, you think that could have success. But with the system, I always say there's a lot of freedom, you know, the spacing, this decision making that comes from trusting the players and putting them in, you know, for that. Like not telling you you need to go A to B to C. Cause that's not how the game's played. It's very, you know, we're all trying to create the space and you know, the double gaps and put players in the right situation. So it's just trusting that, you know, and you hopefully that you've done enough that they make the right decisions, but they're human. Just like I don't make always the right decisions. Neither do they. And it's, you know, you just. I feel like I have a good feel for the game. Cause I've been around it and try to. Okay, let's see how they're defending certain ones or let's run this play. You know, sometimes players need that you possibly didn't, but some other players have needed it. And so I give them what they need at that time. But I wanted, you know, wanted them to. I didn't want them to feel pressure of running something as special. No, you guys are the smartest basketball players out here. Like, the system's in place to give you a little structure. But then you've just got to read and react to how the defence is, you know, is playing you and having the freedom out there to play to your instincts. Cause, you know, I think that's when, you know, greatness can really happen.
- [47:22]
A
Yeah. No. Well, first of all, I definitely needed it. It was always a gift. When you're in the course of a game and you know, you're running things the way you maybe planned or Prepared. But then when the coach just goes, hey, do this, it's kind of like, oh, thank you, you gave me a playoff. I really appreciate it. It was always such a gift when that happened. But yeah, I couldn't agree more. It always cracks me up because you have to run your plays every day. You have to go through them, you have to script them. You do, or else you brought the word slippage. I'm like, yeah, that always happens. People forget people in the heat of the moment. But at the same time, you very rarely, very rarely get exactly what that player's drawn up to get. And you have to have like the open mind at the end of it. So you obviously, I mean, you obviously already touched on, you know, the greatness you played with. You've coached it. Whether it was Lauren with the national team, Diana Taurasi in Phoenix, Penny Taylor on both, most recently. Stewie, like we're talking hall of Famer, all time greats. How did they influence your coaching style?
- [48:32]
B
Yeah, I mean, I mean so much because they're just great players. And you know, I always say like, Diana, you know, we coach, we're in Russia together. And I'm like, I don't get Phoenix without Diana. You know, so thanks, Diana. She's great. And, but you know, everyone talks about, oh, how was it like to coach Diana? I'm like, Diana, the bigger the game, the better. She just made everyone else better and she would love on you. And you know, I was caught side to watching greatness on so many occasions and then, but, you know, how do you control her strong personality? I said, sometimes you have to learn to push it and sometimes you gotta let it burn. Because I think that you gotta let players have some passion. I don't want them in, I don't want them to be in boxes. But there's a, you know, there's a right way and a wrong way to act. But Diana had this competitive edge like no one else. And you've seen it, you've been with it, and you know, don't poke the bear. We've seen that a few times. I'd say the same thing about you. Remember 2018, it was the most epic series. We poked Sue Bird and that didn't.
- [49:37]
A
Usually I'm not good. Usually I'm not good when it's. But that was a different, that was a different scenario. I don't know if I've ever shared this with you or not, but that 2018 series, I remember watching you guys play against Connecticut in the round before single elimination. And my Takeaway from that was, you know, Diana getting. You know, Jasmine Thomas is, like, getting all hype in Dee's face after, you know, drawing a charge or whatever it was. And Dee's interview after was like, yeah, people like to clap in your face. They like to post Instagram posts, like, basically, like, we're moving on. Right. And I remember it clicked for me, and I had a big meeting with our team, and I was like, I don't care. Yeah. I was like, I don't. Especially to Alicia Clarke. I was like, I don't care what happens in this series. If she. If you get the call. If you don't get the call, don't react at all. I was like, don't give her any ammo. Which, by the way, it's not easy. Cause she provokes, you know.
- [50:43]
B
Yeah.
- [50:44]
A
Even when she's not, like, verbally doing it. It's just like, her style provokes. But that was, like, a big factor for us where it was like, don't. Like, even if you have played the best defense of your life, ac, don't say a word about it. But, yeah, that was one of them.
- [50:59]
B
You know her. You know her very well, but that was.
- [51:01]
A
Yeah, you can't give her the ammo.
- [51:02]
B
Yeah. That was an epic series. You guys win two in your court. We win two on our court and comes down to the wire, and we've got some momentum until we hit you in the nose. And I think it was your own player, Stewie, but you pissed you off. And then you're making threes from halfway, and I'm like, what the. Okay, here we go.
- [51:21]
A
I love the legend. She was making threes from half court.
- [51:26]
B
You were like, oh, you. God, this is. This is kid. But, yeah, no, that was a great series. And. But, yeah, like, Diana, I mean, she's great. Like, you know, sue, for you, it's like your poise and just your iq, but also that competitive edge. Like, you're quiet like me, but you have this fire burning inside, whereas Dinah's is more out there, you know?
- [51:46]
A
Yeah.
- [51:46]
B
You know, so, you know, greatest shooter of all time. And Candice Parker, just the versatility. The position was from the beginning, you know, how she changed the game and the collaboration, you know, this is how. That's why I think I like the collaboration, because that's what it's a part. Because, like, hey, we all can bring great ideas, but once we get out there, what's the alignment? And then continue to help each other get better, it's not just the coach telling the Player to get better. The player can help the coach get better, and. And that's what I've enjoyed along the whole way. And, you know, if you get to coach Stewie, there's no better superstar than her. And, you know, I love her, and for her, it's just her work ethic, her professionalism, her consistency, and she's just a really damn good player. And, you know, and I think lately, like, we always talked, I always wanted her to be a leader early in her career, but I'm like, oh, this is new for her. She had super as a leader telling her what to do, but it's been really great just to watch that evolution of her leadership, but it's still through actions, which I love. You know, she just goes out there and does a job and to the best of her ability. But, you know, I've had the privilege of coach so many great players who I feel like they've, you know, they've pushed, molded me to be better because everyone is different. You're not all the same. So, you know, you gotta. You know, you get to know them on a personal level and what makes them tick and hopefully have a good enough relationship that it's, you know, you have that mutual respect and trust.
- [53:11]
A
Mm, absolutely.
- [53:12]
B
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Some cards are labeled no Ding decline, which means if you're not approved, they won't hurt your credit scores. Download the Experian app for free today. Applying for no Ding decline cards won't hurt your credit score. If you aren't initially approved, initial approval will result in a hard inquiry, which may impact your credit scores experience.
- [54:12]
A
This week on net worth and chill, we're joined by Marina Laroude, the powerhouse founder and CCO of LaRude, the luxury footwear brand that's redefining accessible luxury. From conceiving the idea during an RV road trip with her husband to winning the FNA 2024 Brand of the Year award. Marina's journey from Teen Vogue fashion director to building her own empire is nothing short of inspiring. Marina gets candid about money, mindset shift from executive to entrepreneur, how she's scaling internationally while maintaining her values, and what it really takes to compete with footwear giants. When you're bootstrapping your way to the top, get ready for an unfiltered conversation about wealth building, taking calculated risks, and turning your corporate expertise into entrepreneurial gold. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF all right, so we've talked about the players that you've coached. The great. Now I want to know the ones you've coached against and who is like. And you can keep it all time or you can keep it more recent, like, wherever, whatever comes to mind. Who's, like, the hardest to scout against?
- [55:16]
B
Oh, geez, that's. That's a good one.
- [55:18]
A
By the way, you never really had to play against BG in her prime, so great. Consider yourself lucky for that.
- [55:25]
B
Yeah, but, yeah, it was the hardest.
- [55:26]
A
To game plan against.
- [55:28]
B
Yeah, look. Oh, there's so many. I mean, so many good ones out there, you know, and in New York, what we had, especially when we won 2024, we had versatility where we could switch a lot, and the toughness, that certainly helped us. And we had Stewie being aroma and you know, just the IQ and the people at the rim. I think that was great. But like, Asia, I think Asia's really hard to defend. You know, she has to. She needs a crowd around her. We were just lucky that, you know, if they had some non shooters around it, hopefully they're having a bad night. She could, you know, she was just. She was just hard. I think Caitlin Clark is really hard to guard, you know, when she's healthy. Just her ability, she gave us a lot of handful this year. And, you know, she can shoot it from way out, but she can pass it. And I think she's been a tough one. But look, I think every game there's, you know, that's what I love about the game. Every, you know, every team, all the players are different. It's just game planning and coming up with the right game plan. And when it doesn't work, it's like, okay, how can we do this? And, you know, yes, it's analytically driven and trying to work it out. But sometimes, yeah, analytics may say, yeah, go under on her. She's not shooting so well. And like, okay, well, that's the best.
- [56:35]
A
Game of her life.
- [56:36]
B
Yeah, she's just made five, you know, shots. But what? No, let's change it. That's when I'm like, you know, I always say analytics, you know, it's in, it's great information, it gives you knowledge. But then sometimes you gotta see how the game's going.
- [56:47]
A
And yeah, analytics is great. If you're playing a, you know, a team in a 30 game series, yeah, it'll, it'll pan out. But when it's the one, you know, quarter and the one moment, yeah, that player you go under, they're hitting the three just cause.
- [57:00]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, non shooter, she can't shoot it. And they make three in a row, you're like, okay, okay, let's play a little closer now. Like, come on. Like, you know, that's when you think, yeah, you just got it. This is what I see. That's why I say I'm human driven and data informed. And I know the analytics world is big. I love the analytics, but sometimes you have to go by the eye test as well.
- [57:23]
A
So I just thought of something bringing up BG. You obviously coached BG and Diana, and your 2014 team is arguably, you know, goes down as one of the best. So there's like a ton of players I can name on that team, but as like a duo. Did you learn anything from coaching them as a duo that you maybe, or maybe like helped you with the Stewie Sabrina duo?
- [57:47]
B
I mean, I think anytime you're gonna learn, like, because you know, to win you need talent, don't you? And you need talent that meshes well together. And Diana and bg, and Diana's one of the smartest. But I think, and I always say this too, passing is a skill that's kind of slipped now. And you and Diana were at the front. You know, I think this is great. Like, Diana, like we could put here and she'd know where to pass it to bg.
- [58:12]
A
But she was like a BG whisperer.
- [58:14]
B
She was. I mean, she knew the right, you know, angles. But everyone else be like, they'd be bounce passing it to bg. I'm like, people, what are you doing? Come on. But look, it's just, just how their connections and how much the communication. I think that's the most important when you see combinations come well together is they're working it out as well. And then when I'm like, I get their thoughts, but then I'm bringing them together. Hey, what do you think about this? What do you think this would help? They're Defending you like that, you know, I think it's always a collaboration because they're out on the court. And I think sometimes that, that feedback from the players really helps. But, you know, it's just, for me, it's the communication and making sure they're both great players. Look, you got to, you know, you know, they're all important, so you have to make sure that they're. They feel it as well. Yeah. And I think that's so important because I trust. I want my players to know that I do trust them. And obviously the. Your best players, you probably have a little bit longer leash. As they should.
- [59:14]
A
As they should. Where do you rank that 2014 team? For those that don't know, it's like we're talking Diana Taurasi, Brittney Griner, Penny Taylor, Candice Dupri, Dewana Bonner. And you had great vets. You had Eva off the bench, Annette off the bench, Aaron Phillips. I know I'm forgetting somebody, but where do you rank that team?
- [59:33]
B
Oh, I mean, right up. That's probably one of the best of all time in that regard. And, you know, they came off. I don't think they made the playoffs the year before and they just had a lot of injuries and, you know, how lucky am I, I guess, to come in and.
- [59:46]
A
Yeah, you won in your first year.
- [59:48]
B
Yeah, that certainly helps. You know, coach of the year. Yeah, it's not bad. No, and it was good. It's more like, you know, I suppose sometimes you get the right team and that matches your personality, but they're driven by a player that, you know, Diana's just totally bought in. And when you have alignment with your best player, great things can happen. And we did that. Now, the year before, Diana was like the highest scorer. Now, the team didn't do well, but they had a lot of injuries. You know, she could score the ball. We know that. One of the greatest of all times. But the following year it was more like, we've got a really great starting five here. If we can all score in double figures, that's going to be our strength. And Dinah's, you know, her scoring dipped, but she was the highest assist giver in that year. So she wanted to win, you know what I mean? And that's the unique things that it wasn't about the stats and you're the same like that. It wasn't about the stats. It's about playing in the right way and winning championships. And Diana led that and we just had a real cohesive unit. Penny was injured, came back from injuries. Well, six and three to start. I know that's still pretty good. But I replaced her once she was healthy, I put Penny in the starting lineup. We went 16 in a row very quickly. It's amazing.
- [60:56]
A
You guys finished 29 and five. You started six and three. You finished the season 29 and five.
- [61:03]
B
Yeah. And I didn't know that. I sat Diana and Penny out at the end of the year, and I was really pissed because we lost the game in Atlanta. And I'm like, damn. You know, and not.
- [61:11]
A
Yeah, these are the. These are the things you remember.
- [61:14]
B
But I didn't. And that's terrible. That sounds like my ear.
- [61:18]
A
These are the things we all remember.
- [61:19]
B
This is.
- [61:20]
A
I could sit here and give you, like, some mundane detail about something that happened that has nothing to do with anything in a lot of ways, but just, like, sits there and stings. And I don't mean to bring up, like, another potential like Sting, but your time in Phoenix was bookmarked with the finals. 2014, you go to the finals, you win 2021, you go on this amazing run, you get to the finals. What are your memories of that run? And I imagine it still stings a little bit.
- [61:49]
B
Yeah. Now, obviously, you get to the finals, you want to win. You know, in 2018, you took that joy away from me. But it was in the semifinals, so it didn't quite get to the final. And then 21.
- [62:01]
A
No offense to DC. It was the finals.
- [62:03]
B
Yeah, it was. It was. I know, exactly. We kept saying that, but, like, in 2021, we had a lot of injuries. Diana was out. You know, we. You know, just trying to get everyone on the same page, and. And once we did, it kind of took life and dying.
- [62:16]
A
Nurse in the finals.
- [62:17]
B
Yeah, we lost Kia, Nurse. It's the same thing against you. We lost Sancho Little, remember, against the 2018. So, you know, Kia was such a big piece for us, and. But we came back and, you know, we had a. The game five against Vegas. Diana, that's some of the best basketball I have seen her play. That semifinals against Vegas, she was. Was unconscious. If anyone goes back and watch, that's pretty impressive. But, you know, we made it there. But then the thing is, we finished game five, and then two days, we had a date. We had to fly to Chicago. We had to play the next day. I'm like, of course we're not going to win that game. We're fatigued. And the emotional. Diana just had her first baby. Penny was having a baby straight after game five. I'm like, yeah, we're not winning that one. You know, I thought we had chances, but we didn't get there. And you know, Chicago, they had a terrible season and they got it together in the playoffs and they had a really good team and played well, but that was the end. And people say, like, you know, that's weird. You made the playoffs and then, you know, you're not renewed there. And I'm like, it was time. It was time. Yeah.
- [63:18]
A
What is your. Actually, I'm really curious, you know, you bring that up. I was gonna bring it up anyways. Like, what is your thought on that? Because I think what a lot of people don't understand. And by people, I'm talking about those that aren't in it. Right. Players understand, coaches understand. Franchises, GMs. Every. We kind of understand. There's like a window. There's like this organism. Right. It's like the group dynamic of a pro sports team. This is something that Jenny and I would talk about. Jenny Busak and I would talk about a lot. Just like, understanding that. And sometimes things do have to get shook up or changed. And, you know, it's funny. Cause you're one of. I don't know if you know this, you probably do, but you're one of only two WNBA coaches to win championships with different franchises. It's you and Brian Agler.
- [64:05]
B
Yeah.
- [64:06]
A
So clearly. And you've both kind of, like, had to part ways, you've had to move on, and clearly you're successful. So how do you just, like, think about that? And honestly, this is more of, like an educational moment for people that aren't in it and don't understand.
- [64:21]
B
Yeah. Look, I think in the 2021, once we lost in that at, you know, the. The fourth game. Disappointing. But I kind of knew. I just knew. I said, you know, this is the end. This is the end. And. And even though it can. Look, I think I was probably a little bit more sadder on that front than I was with New York. And we can get to that, too. Just because my children go to school in Phoenix. Then it's like, oh, my gosh, what am I going to do with my kids? And, you know, you know, that. That part was the hardest part, but it was the right thing. Like, and Diana and I have spoken about in the years past, you know, it's more like, no, Dee, it was time. You needed a new voice and I needed a new challenge. You know, I had done as much as I thought I could. And, you know, on both sides, I think you have to Shake it up a little bit, and it's rare. I was eight years in Phoenix. That's a long time. So, you know, I had a great, great GM to work with and Jim Pittman, and we had, you know, went to the playoffs every single year. You know, some were better than others and, you know, learn a lot along the. But it was just time. And the same goes to New York, you know, I know. Yeah, we just win a championship. Everyone's talking about that. And, you know, I knew. You know, I just think it was. It was time. It was time. I felt it. I. You know, I didn't think I could. You know, even if it went that way, I probably couldn't have done it, you know, in that regard, it was just time. You know, players need a new voice and, you know, just need new challenges and because, you know, you know, if the alignment gets a little bit off, you know, astray, it's. It's time to move. And, you know, usually it could be players no different than players moving or not, bringing them back. And now it's just the coaches moving. And I think that's a part of the business. It is a big business here, and teams have to do what they think is best. And, you know, obviously, mine have both been after going to the, you know, finals, but not the championship in 2021 was the championship, but it was. Like I said, I have just fond memories. I still live in Phoenix in the off season where Jada goes to school. So. But, yeah, it's a part of, you know, this is my career, so it's been a good one, but I still got lots to do. Yeah.
- [66:34]
A
So, I mean, I don't want to skip too far ahead, but at the same time, you know, when it comes to, you know, you and New York parting ways, at what point did you really know that? I don't mean, like, specifically. How about we'll break it down like, you're sitting in media with Stewie and Sabrina, and a reporter five seconds after the season's over asks you that question, like, what is this moment? Like, you know, I guess you kind of already said it. You weren't necessarily shocked, but just like, what's happening for you in right after the season ending?
- [67:06]
B
Yeah, look, obviously it's tough. You know, we want to. We want to go to the finals, and we're the champions from last year. And the hardest thing, and, you know, it is to repeat it really is hard now. Our team had changed a little bit because of expansion. We lost some really good players. We lost, you Know, Laney was start of the year. It was different. And then we had all these injuries, not just to our role players who are important, but to our, you know, our best players. And it was hard. It was a very disruptive season and trying to find it. But I, you know, I just felt. I just felt that it probably wasn't the right fit anymore, to be quite honest. And, you know, obviously, it was a leadership decision there, and I work best when I'm in a partnership. And so I felt like, you know, if that can't be what I think it should look like, and that doesn't mean I'm the right. How it should look like as, you know, A, B and C, because, you know, you have to have that. It was probably time. And then I always say four years. I had four great years. I got to win a championship that will be. Always be special for me. I think what we've done in New York and to be a part of that, it was fantastic. And, you know, if they want to move on, that's fine. And that's. People say, like, you know, you know, it's been exciting since then, you know, just navigating this difficult.
- [68:24]
A
You've been on your own, free agency.
- [68:26]
B
Been a free agent. I mean, that was interesting, too. But, you know, it's, you know, obviously it's been overwhelming, but it's been nice and it's. Yeah, I just have so much more to give, and I just love what we do. And one door closes, another one opens. But I have, you know, it was a privilege to coach in New York and to win that championship with some amazing players. And those relationships with those players will continue because we did something special. And I think I led the team in what I think was the right way.
- [68:58]
A
I do want to ask about just one of the comments that Jonathan, the gm, made during his press conference, just about how he considered a change even after 2024, had. Had you guys not won, did you feel like the expectations were unrealistic, or do you. Do you have an understanding around championship or bust mentality?
- [69:22]
B
Yeah, I mean, I suppose a bit of the Both, to be quite honest. And, you know, I think it's hard to win. Sue, you've been there. We've been players, so we kind of know the process and, you know, and the pressure's there. I understand the pressure. We want to win. We want it so badly, especially after we lost in 20, 20, 23. You know, the things the game. I know, you know, spoken about evolution and innovation. It's like, you know, you gotta try and put your players in the best position to be successful. And, you know, we.
- [69:50]
A
We.
- [69:51]
B
We were high up on net ratings and offensive ratings and stuff like that. But in the playoffs, it gets harder. It becomes a defensive game. And in 2024, we were the best defensive team in the finals, and our offense slipped. Now, this probably was not alignment on what that looks like and how we could get better. And, you know, sometimes you need players to do that as well, too. And, you know, so that was the disappointing part. We had just won, but you probably didn't have as much joy as you'd wanted to because it was more like, you know, well, you didn't do this. Yeah, I wasn't perfect. Yeah, I made some mistakes. Just like, you know, obviously, the players do. We look, you know, we didn't shoot the ball well, but we won a championship. It doesn't matter how, you know? Cause that's. Doesn't matter how we won a championship. We did it together, and it should be a special time.
- [70:32]
A
Well, I mean, you can't rewrite history. You guys did win in 2024, which I imagine was incredibly satisfying to get redemption from 2023, losing in the finals, but then also bringing the New York Liberty their first ever WMA championship. What. What are just some of your fonder memories of. Of that run?
- [70:51]
B
Oh, I mean, it was all great. Like, it's just the. The players. And you've won championships. Has. Have they always gone smoothly?
- [70:58]
A
No, never.
- [70:59]
B
No.
- [71:00]
A
But that's just the next year. Yeah, it's the next year when you're trying to repeat and you look back and you're like, why is this so hard? We did it last year.
- [71:09]
B
It's so easy to win. Yeah, we're gonna repeat, you know. Yeah, let's just. Yeah, we've got the best players. I'm like, every team has great players. Like, and it's sometimes it's not about. It's just. Look at Vegas this year. Epic. You know, they're a 500 team, and then they just find a way out. Their leadership, they take over. They go to another level. That can happen. You have to have that belief. You have to have that trust and that support. And, you know, that's big for me. And, you know, 2023. Yeah, it was disappointing. I mean, that hurt. It stings. It took me a long time to rewatch that game. And, you know, you just go back, and I don't go like, no, I think, oh, God, I should have done this. This is what we need to do. This is how we gotta be better. But the journey, the part of the journey, that's what makes it special because we won 32 and eight games in those two years. That's pretty good, isn't it? But, you know, it's more like, okay, you know, we can't win every game, so you have to have those experiences to learn to go through that adversity. And we all had adversity, but I think the players just came together and understood, you know, accepting their roles and doing something that was bigger than themselves. And we found a way. Now, obviously, game five, that was spoken about a fair bit. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. But we won. You know what I mean? And of course we won. That's all that should really matter. And, you know, it was epic, and it was just a fun experience to be a part of in that parade in New York. And obviously you're at the. Were you at the party after party? That was pretty. Pretty cool, too, after the game?
- [72:38]
A
Yeah, I was at that one. Ellie on the bar. I was at that one.
- [72:43]
B
Yeah, it was just, you know, it's just fun. It was just more, you know, just celebrating with, you know, people that were always there for me and. But, you know, had amazing players that connected and. But when you won one, you want to win again, and I want to keep winning. I want to win. My narrative hasn't changed. It's just now I have to go win with a different team.
- [73:02]
A
Yeah, well, your legacy in New York will forever be that of a championship coach bringing them their first title. You actually are the winningest coach in Liberty history for your career. You have a 60% win record coaching more than 400 WNBA games. Just giving you some stats. When you reflect or how do you reflect on your success, like, overall, and I think, like, what do you. I actually ask players this often when I bring them on. What are you most proud of in your coaching career?
- [73:38]
B
Someone still wants to employ me. That's a good thing, isn't it? Closes. Still thinks you're good enough and you can help your team. And look, I think just the ability to have longevity in this game and continue to, like, evolve and be better. Like, I don't want to. Like, the game has changed. I know that, like, I want to continue to get better. I want to lean into the players, but I still want to be my authentic self, and I think I'm proud of that because I haven't changed. Like, you just. You just said all those stats there in the big picture, that doesn't really matter. To me, maybe when I've retired, it's more about am I building those connections? Do I have the chemistry? Do I have the support, the respect, the trust? And that goes both ways. And are we building something special, you know, and embracing the hard and enjoying the journey? Because it is hard what we do. But I love it even when it is hard. But you know, being around people that you can enjoy that with, that's important as well because it's tough with what we do. And it does. I always say, people say, what's the hardest thing about being a head coach? I said it's lonely at the top. So you want to try and be surrounded by people that can support you on this journey.
- [74:56]
A
Sandy, there's literally. I had to skip so many questions, but I'm so thankful for your time. This was amazing. I love hearing about your journey, not just as a coach, but even going back to your playing days. It was fun. So thank you for coming.
- [75:10]
B
No, thanks for having me, Sue.
- [75:13]
A
All right, that's it for our interview. I hope you guys enjoyed it. I think my favorite part about talking with Sandy is she was a part of history in so many ways, but is still creating history and people like that in our game, they're just part of the fabric. And anytime you get to hear more from them, to hear how they were as a player, how they are as a coach, for me that's just. I feel like I'm a student again in a sense. Before I go, next week we are having a special episode. It's just gonna be a short one but I think you guys are gonna like it. So keep your eyes out for that next week. Also letting you know that we're taking a little break for the season after next week. But don't worry, you can still stay tapped in with us every week. See you guys. This episode is a co production of Together and Vox Media. Our producers are Tommy Alter, Jason Gallagher, Richie Bozick, Harry Krinsky, Jess Clarendon and Melanie Carter. Support for Bird's Eye View comes from the all electric Toyota Beezy. The true test of a first rate intellect is the ability to change one's mind. That's a quote from me. I just made it up. But it sounds good, doesn't it? So maybe it's time to revisit your thoughts on battery electric vehicles with the all electric Toyota bz. I've already told you about a few of its amazing features. Its EPA estimated driving range rating up to 314 miles. Its versatile charging capabilities available premium JBL9 speaker audio system. Its sleek and chiseled design so I won't repeat myself. All I'll say is go check it out for yourself. The all electric BZ1 drive can change your mind. Learn more@toyota.com BZ Toyota let's go places this.