← Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Bird's Eye View with Sue Bird
Satou Sabally on Leveling Up With the Phoenix Mercury & Her Journey From Germany to the WNBA
01:29:21
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- [00:00]
Sue Bird
2023 was really like you put your flag in the sand on. This is who I am, this is who I'm going to be. I mean, you win most improved, you're wnba, all first team, you're an All Star again, fifth in MVP voting. What do you think changed for you in that season?
- [00:18]
Satou Sabally
In that season? Okay.
- [00:32]
Sue Bird
Today'S guest has earned the nickname Unicorn for her rare combination of skill and versatility. She's been killing it this year in the WNBA, averaging 16.7 points, 6.2 rebounds and 2.5 assists per game. She is a three time All Star and a 2025 WNBA All Star starter. She continues to solidify her status as one of the league's elite talents. Always representing her German roots, she inspires athletes worldwide. I'm talking about the Phoenix Mercury's very own Satus Abali. But before we get to the interview, you know what time it is. It's time for Sue's View. Support for Bird's Eye View comes from Nike. What was your biggest win? Was it in front of a sold out stadium or the first time you beat your teammate in practice? Nike knows winning isn't always done in front of cheering crowds. Sometimes winning happens in your driveway, on a quiet street at the end of your longest run or on the blacktop for a pickup game. Nike is here for all the wins, big or small. They provide the gear you bring, the mindset. Visit nike.com for more information and be sure to follow Nike on Instagram, TikTok and other social platforms for more great basketball moments. Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea. When you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need Pure Leaf iced tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshing and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a pure Leaf iced tea.
- [02:06]
Satou Sabally
Time for a tea break.
- [02:08]
Sue Bird
Time for a pure leaf. All right, so as we're winding down the 2025 season and heading into the playoffs, I had to call in my guy, Tommy Alter, and I'm thrilled to have him joining us. He brings a unique perspective on the game, a deep love for basketball and just has an energy that I know you're going to enjoy. We're going to be diving into all things hoops. Let's get into it. Tommy Alter, your first appearance on the show. Tommy I'm sitting here wondering how to introduce you. You're a man of many talents. I think I'm gonna go with. When you came to watch me play a couple years ago, like my first or second to last season in the league at Barclays, we're playing the New York Liberty. They put you on the Jumbotron and it said, tommy Alter, podcaster.
- [03:00]
Tommy Alter
Podcaster. That was probably. It's probably all been downhill from there. Honestly, I think that was my. I think that was a peak. That was a peak moment in my life.
- [03:07]
Sue Bird
Yo. I was in the huddle. I look up and I started cracking up. I was like, this is perfect. So for those that don't know Tommy Alter, he is a podcaster. He does a lot more than that. He's also one of the hosts of Young man, the Three. Yeah, Tommy, I know we're here to talk hoops. Let's get into it.
- [03:24]
Tommy Alter
I feel like the place that might be good for us to start, you know, just looking at the standings, you know, because we're.
- [03:31]
Satou Sabally
We.
- [03:31]
Tommy Alter
We got a little bit of a barn burner, you know, finish for 7, 8, 9. I wanted to get your opinion first, really, on the. The Fever LA finish, because obviously, you know, it's, you know, it's looking like these are going to be the sort of the two teams going for the eight seed. The Fever have three games left, the Sparks have five games left. What's your thought on a macro level about where this sits? We're taping this Wednesday afternoon where this sits with everything.
- [03:59]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I mean, you're talking about Indiana and la, but you also have to throw the Storm in there. Honestly, the Golden State Valkyries, they beat the Liberty last night. They put themselves in pretty. At a pretty good spot. But the reason why you got to throw Seattle in there is because now they only have two games left, whereas Indiana has three and LA has four. So, like, the amount of games that each team has left is really gonna play a role in terms of, like, controlling your own destiny. And that's exactly what each locker room is saying right now. Like, all right, guys, let's just win these games. And that way we're controlling our own destiny. Like, let's not put it in another team's hands. But sadly, all three of those teams at different points, because they're losing games, they should theoretically win. Right? Like, Seattle lost a tough one at home to LA after being up 17. The fever loss to Phoenix I don't think is like a quote unquote bad loss. But yeah, all these teams Are. Are not putting them. Not taking care of their own destiny.
- [04:58]
Tommy Alter
Why do you think, you know, the schedule works itself out in different ways. But what, what is this, what is the like discrepancy? Because I saw this with the Sparks. They have Atlanta twice, they have Dallas, they have Phoenix, they have Vegas and Indy has Sky Friday, which I'm going to go to, and then Mystics Links. But it does feel like it just changes. Changes the dynamic mentally in the locker room? No, about just knowing that there's There are these other sort of. It's almost like in baseball where you have a, you know, postponement because of weather or something like that.
- [05:28]
Sue Bird
You mean like how some teams have more games than others?
- [05:31]
Tommy Alter
Yeah, it just, it just feels like for the end of the season, it feels like a thing that. And I'm curious. I. So I have a. I. I want to get your perspective on that. But then also just like mentally how you prepare for this. You being. Have been in this spot, you know, before in the past about trying to not watch the scoreboard too much.
- [05:49]
Sue Bird
Yeah. I'll actually start with the second part. It's impossible. Every, every time a team is playing and they know a team that's within their kind of like seating range is playing after them, you are literally the like running to the app to check the score. You're trying to put it on TV in the locker room. Like you're very aware. It's really hard to tune it out. And I think as long as it doesn't, you know, speaking of the mental part of it, as long as it doesn't mess with you to be aware of that, then you're good. If you're somebody that it's gonna mess with and you can't play your game, then you gotta tune it out. But for me personally, no, I wanted to know. I wanted to be aware of what was happening. And honestly, in terms of like, this is something we've talked about. Just when we're like chatting and kind of doing our thing. In terms of the schedule, I will say this is the one thing schedule wise that is a little bit of a bugaboo to me. I kind of roll with the punches on everything else. It's a jam packed schedule that sucks. I roll with it. You know, some days you would rather have, you know, two of the top teams on espn, but it didn't work out that week. I understand that. There's so many things at play with scheduling. We're the low priority in a lot of the arenas we have to go based on everything else, concerts, tours, you name it. So you don't always get what you want. I roll with that to not to come to the end of the season. And some teams, at one point I think Seattle had four games left and other teams had eight. That feels like a mind fuck like that. It's like how do I wrap my head around? I have technically more wins than a team, but I'm seated lower. That's where like a week or two weeks ago it was getting weird for me. But I guess you just have to, you know, you're just like in it and you play the games right in front of you.
- [07:28]
Tommy Alter
So my follow up to this, which I was, you know, I definitely wanted to ask you about when I was just thinking about it last night, watching some of the games is when you look at this, Atlanta. Look at the, when you, when you look at the, at the LA schedule, for example, they have Atlanta twice, like I mentioned, Dallas, Phoenix, Vegas, Phoenix, Vegas. By the time they play them, you know, they're, they're, they're, they sort of know where they're going to be playoff wise. You would think. How much do you sort of anticipate? Even the foot off the gas. Obviously Vegas is the hottest team in the league. Foot off the gas, resting. You know, we already know where we are having an impact on a race like this, 100%.
- [08:03]
Sue Bird
So if you're the team. So right now the team is Minnesota, if, la, Indiana, Seattle, Golden State. Honestly, every team, every team right now is still jockeying. Even Vegas, even Vegas is still jockeying. So every team but Minnesota. If you look at another team schedule and you see they're playing Minnesota, you're like, fuck. You're like, well if it's the last two games of the season, like you don't know how they're going to play. So some coaches, some teams play totally normal, others will shut their top players down completely. And so you're kind of pissed now. What's funny about that though is if you're one of the teams. So if I'm on Indiana and I see Minnesota on my schedule, I'm still nervous. Even though I know they might take their foot off the pedal. Even though I know they might rest people, I'm still like, oh God, it's still Minnesota. So it's kind of this funny thing that happens. It's like a double edged sword in a sense or like it's two sides to a coin maybe. And if you see someone playing Minnesota, you're like, fuck. If you're playing Minnesota, you're still getting ready for a game.
- [09:03]
Tommy Alter
It's funny, you say this and this is gonna be anecdotal and you're gonna get mad. You're gonna say, why are you even looking at Twitter to begin with? But I will say for some reason, I either follow or I see a lot of tweets from Lynx fans.
- [09:15]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [09:16]
Tommy Alter
And they freak out after every loss. Like every time they lose, they're like, oh my. Like, they, they lost last week. We're, um. Courtney missed the thing. It missed the layup at the end and it was like, guys, you're 32 and 8.
- [09:30]
Sue Bird
Like, look where you record setting season.
- [09:32]
Tommy Alter
Vegas have what, 12 in a row and they're six games back from you.
- [09:35]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [09:36]
Tommy Alter
Like you're 32 and eight and. And you're. And they. And Fee missed what you missed eight, nine games.
- [09:40]
Sue Bird
10 games.
- [09:40]
Tommy Alter
I think she ended up missing 10 games still. But it's like, I mean, I guess that's the sign that you've made it. It's like you're the Yankees. It's like every loss becomes a. Becomes dramatic.
- [09:49]
Sue Bird
Yeah. That's the world of, you know, that's.
- [09:51]
Tommy Alter
Fandom to that point. Because we talked about this the other day and Mel brought this up to us on the, on the text earlier this week. I wanted to get your perspective on the Liberty. They. They're 24 and 17, eight and a half back. They lost, like you mentioned, they lost last night to the Valkyries. Lost the last two games on this road trip. Obviously they're in a, you know, good spot for the playoffs. Is there any concern with anything you're seeing?
- [10:17]
Sue Bird
So the only concern is are they running out of time to get healthy and to get their chemistry back to get rhythm? So a big part of injuries mid season, it's like first of all, it's really hard as an individual to stay in game rhythm yourself individually when you're out during the season because then when you come back, you're trying to do it in real time. So you need games to do that. So are they running out of games to get some Stewie back? Going to get, you know, JJ back going. Sabrina Niara have been out. So to get them just going individually. Right. So are they running out of. Out of real estate there and then are they running out of real estate in terms of like the team cohesion? I actually think that they have played together. The core group has played together enough where it's not going to take that much time. I think when they finally get over the hump of having people out and they finally come back, it's going to give them, like a jolt. It's going to give them some energy. I guess the one thing I am looking at is like, the Emma Meesiman piece because she hasn't played with the core group a lot. So there is like a little bit of. Of again, like, chemistry, rhythm that has to be formed with her when they're at full strength. But honestly, more than anything, I'm like, okay, if the season ended today, they'd finish fifth. That sucks. But if I'm Phoenix, I'm not like, yeah, I get to play New York in the first round. Now I'm New York. I'm pissed I don't have home court. I'm pissed I don't have home court for sure. Especially the way they started the season. But none of this is like, they all forgot how to play basketball. They've had injuries. That is so much harder than I think people really understand when you have players in and out of lineups.
- [11:59]
Tommy Alter
Did you ever have a season like the. Like them where the team was just banged up the whole year?
- [12:06]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [12:06]
Tommy Alter
And it just. It felt like you guys were. It felt like you guys just, you know, snake bits, probably the right word. Or it's like the second you get somebody back, you know, it's whack, a mole, someone else goes down.
- [12:15]
Sue Bird
Yeah, no, I've definitely had those seasons. Luckily, this one's unique because of, like, the amount of in and out, like the amount of injuries and then who's been hurt. Like, it's their top two, three, four players that are. That are all in and out of the lineup. And that's just. That's just hard. The other part about that is everything is based around them. It's based around them as players. It's based around their skill set. And then everybody else kind of like fits in. So that's also what makes playing without your top players such a challenge. To be honest, though, most of my time in Seattle, sadly, the injury bug that we would get generally ended up being to Lauren, who was our main player, and then we would have to find a way to play without her. And it was always tough.
- [13:01]
Tommy Alter
One other topic I wanted to bring up, that curious if even your opinion in the last couple weeks has changed in this a little bit. We're talking award stuff. You look at what Phoenix has done with Alyssa in particular, she's 13, 10 and 10. This week they were three. Zero teams won five in a row. Do you see her having a legit MVP case At this point with both how she's played individually and then also how the team has played.
- [13:29]
Sue Bird
Yeah, this one's tough. This one's tough because I, I feel like this happens to Alyssa Thomas pretty much every year. She has MVP caliber seasons and then it's like another player or maybe in this case too have like just a little bit better. Right? Their team does, does a little bit better. Their numbers are a little bit better. Now, what's always interesting about AT and I feel for her in this is, you know, this is we live in a world where scoring is paramount and it's put, you know, so much emphasis is put on it, so much value is put on it. Rightfully so. It's the point of the game. But I think sometimes the other things she does gets lost and it doesn't get valued as much. It's why we don't see point guards in the WNBA winning mvp. And I'm not saying she's a point guard, but she's kind of like what Diana Taurasi used to call the point forward. Like she's a playmaker at her position. And I think that is just undervalued. But I will say it's hard to say. It's hard. The way Asia Wilson has been playing, the numbers and the win streak and where she has her team now, it's hard to deny that. And then the same for fee. And of course with Phi, there's the whole injury, missed 10 games that I think voters have to figure out how they're going to weigh. But that's what keeps happening to Alyssa Thomas. She has MVP years and numbers. In this case, I don't think a lot of people thought Phoenix was going to finish, you know, in the top four. They're actually in the top two most of the season. But yeah, I think other parts of her game don't get valued enough to then catapult her to the top.
- [15:02]
Tommy Alter
I was going to ask about Asia. I just feel like at a certain point, you know, they just don't seem to want to lose.
- [15:08]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [15:09]
Tommy Alter
And you're like it's a. If it for as an amazing as, you know, a career as she's had already, it. This feels like a. Just, just whipping off a perfect, you know, last six weeks of the season feels like something that could, you know, maybe actually catapult her into a thing where like this wasn't a conversation necessarily on June 1st and now it becomes like undeniable.
- [15:33]
Satou Sabally
Yeah.
- [15:33]
Sue Bird
I actually. Can I ask you a question? So I, I go back and forth with this in the WNBA season, the season is, I think, short enough where you have to take into account the full season. But I think what happens at times, and I don't mean this specific to this year, truly, it happens to be playing out this way. But I've seen it time and time again. A player starts out hot, and the conversation around them starts brewing. And then when a player kind of, like, is a late bloomer, it never reaches the hype that. That player who had a hot start. God, it just. It's really hard to break through. This might be one of the few times if Asia wins mvp where I've seen someone break through late. So I'm just curious, like, how do you look at that?
- [16:14]
Tommy Alter
Well, some of it, I think. And this is a little bit. Even with the Alyssa conversation, you know, if Fee doesn't get hurt, it's probably still not a conversation. Yeah, because what we were talking about before of when you're the. The best player with amazing numbers on a team that has such a level of sustained dominance with a history already, too. And it. And you know, she is a hub, the same way that, like, Alyssa is a hub where she does everything for them. I think that they could win 20 in a row, and it still just might be, like, all right, great. But, you know, the. The links are, you know, sort of head and shoulders above the rest of the league. I think the injury does change that dynamic a little bit, where if you do miss 10 games, it does become. I mean, in a weird way, it's like them playing well without her still doesn't down, doesn't. Doesn't discredit anything she's done this year at all. But you're also just, like, that's just a unit of a team, you know, and that's a team that basically has the ability to win no matter who's out there. And I think also just some of it on a pure eye test, like, Asia's just been putting up these crazy stat lines.
- [17:17]
Sue Bird
I know.
- [17:18]
Tommy Alter
Like, what happened last year?
- [17:19]
Sue Bird
Does it change for you if I tell you Asia's missed four games this year, so the Delta is really only.
- [17:24]
Tommy Alter
Six games at the beginning of the year. When were they. Yeah, because I don't think it's about. I don't think it's about the actual games missed. I think it's about the, like, the narrative of, like, when it happened.
- [17:35]
Satou Sabally
Okay.
- [17:35]
Tommy Alter
You know, and. And so I think that. I think that, like, if fee had missed 10 games, but they were spread out over the course of the season, and it was like, okay, two games here, one game here, whatever it may be. I think that that probably would. Would change it a little bit. But I could also see. I mean, I would counter myself by saying I'm always in favor of, like, best player and the best team. Get it?
- [17:56]
Sue Bird
Same.
- [17:57]
Tommy Alter
And that's what they are so, like. And it's not close. So, like, at that day, at the end of the day, like, maybe you just, you know, Asia can be 1A or 1B, you know, so I'm now.
- [18:08]
Sue Bird
I'm going to, like, counter our own counter to ourselves and counter it again, which is if you. If the season ends and Las Vegas only finishes, like, fourth, then I'm kind of like, okay, Fee, best player, best team. I know she missed games, but it's hard to discount how great the links are right now. But if Vegas finishes second, it's kind of like best player, second best team. And to your point, with the numbers she's been putting up, I just get how this is literally going to come down to the last game. Honestly, it circles back to our playoff conversation.
- [18:40]
Satou Sabally
It.
- [18:40]
Sue Bird
If Fee rests because Minnesota's, you know, so far ahead, does that change MVP conversations? If Vegas is still playing and Asia puts up, I mean, it's really interesting. This is going to come down to the wire. It's going to be fun to watch. And they square off, by the way they play. By the time this comes out, they will have gone to head to head.
- [18:57]
Tommy Alter
Just looking at this now, the last time the Aces lost was. I want to see if you can guess it. If you don't look at the schedule.
- [19:02]
Sue Bird
Well, I mean, I don't know. What's 10 games, two games a week? I have no idea. Like a month and a half.
- [19:06]
Tommy Alter
They. They lost on August 2nd to Minnesota. That was the one where they lost by 50.
- [19:12]
Sue Bird
Oh, yeah. No, actually, I did know.
- [19:13]
Tommy Alter
And it was. And it was four. They were 14 and 14. And people are just like, yeah, this team.
- [19:18]
Sue Bird
They're done.
- [19:18]
Tommy Alter
It's not it. Yeah, it's not it. Like, you know, this is. It didn't. Everything. This. Everything in this offseason didn't work. D. And then they just. And so there's a. There's a finishing strong component of. I mean, this is beyond finishing strong, but there's a component of, like, that combined with the fact that after that, the injury happened where you could see. But I do agree, it's.
- [19:37]
Sue Bird
The injury happened in that game. Fee's injury happened in that game. Honestly, though, sometimes your biggest loss is your biggest Win. It seems like Vegas needed that. I'm telling you, no athlete wants it, but sometimes it happens and you look back and you're like, man, we needed that.
- [19:56]
Tommy Alter
Just get the shock to the senses.
- [19:57]
Sue Bird
Yeah, sometimes you need it. A little embarrassment goes a long way for real.
- [20:03]
Tommy Alter
Last thing to hit before we break that I want to ask you about. So taping this Wednesday, you got a pretty big weekend planned.
- [20:12]
Sue Bird
Just a little bit.
- [20:13]
Tommy Alter
I feel like you're low key. You're, like, very. Oh, yeah, whatever. Da, da, da. But I feel like. Feel like there's like some exciting stuff that's going to be happening Friday, Saturday night. Maybe you can give a little preview of what you're expecting.
- [20:25]
Sue Bird
Little sneak peek. Yeah, I'm going into the Naismith hall of Fame this weekend. Pretty incredible, I'll be honest. Like, it. I've had this epic year I've had, and this is. I'm giving you a little sneak peek into my speech, but I've had a street named after me. Women's Basketball hall of Fame. I just had a statue unveiled. These are like these epic things and.
- [20:48]
Tommy Alter
The nature all separate. The street and the statue were separate.
- [20:54]
Sue Bird
So, yeah, don't get like, there's 100% a part of me that's like. It's hard to even understand what these all actually mean. But with the Naismith hall of Fame kind of being the last of what has been in this year of like, amazing, I guess, like tributes. I'm really excited that it's happening now because I'm actually getting to share. So those were all, like, individual. And this is individual. Obviously I'm going in the hall of Fame, but you get to share it with your class. And I don't know, Tommy, I'm looking at that class. First of all, I played with Maya, I played with Sylvia. I think it's rare that you go in with two other players that are in your generation that you played with, obviously played against, but really have a lot of shared experiences with. And then on the men's side, it's Carmelo, it's Dwight, and then the 2008 team. So guys that in our USA basketball experience, like, spent a ton of time with. So I think, like, both on the court will be coached by Billy Donovan. Mickey will own us. It. It's perfect. Danny can ref the game. Like, that's a pretty strong class.
- [21:54]
Tommy Alter
Just like on the court and it's like your people. That's what's cool. Because you have no control over that. And you don't. You get along with everyone. So you weren't going to go in with someone you, like, hated. Yeah, but these are, like, people you like, actually actively, like, love.
- [22:08]
Sue Bird
So that's the best part by far. I like. So excited. Friday night is like a gala awards thing that they do Saturdays, the enshrinement. Yeah, I'm really excited.
- [22:20]
Tommy Alter
Well, it's going to be great. And there will be a recap on a touch more on Bird's Eye View on. I mean, everyone's going to see it on Instagram at 10pm on Saturday, so they'll get your recap after the fact.
- [22:32]
Sue Bird
All right, Hope you guys enjoyed. Thank you. Tommy. Definitely bringing you back. And now it's time for our interview. Enjoy. Satu. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Your nickname is Unicorn. So I actually wanted to start there. Do we like this nickname? Are we happy about this? How do we feel about Unicorn?
- [22:52]
Satou Sabally
I love being called a unicorn, but I also feel like I have an alter ego on the court and it doesn't really. I think it's more like a more dominant unicorn. You know, like, when you think about a unicorn, it's more like a fairy tale and girls power, and I love that. Especially when you, you know, little girls come to me, I'm like, no, you're a unicorn, too. I always feel like everyone has a unicorn in them on the court. I'm definitely channeling some, like, more dominant energy, I would say. But everyone wants to get to unicorn status, so that's also a nice thing. Get that building.
- [23:32]
Sue Bird
All right, so you're a unicorn, but when you step on the court, you're an aggressive unicorn.
- [23:37]
Satou Sabally
Absolutely right.
- [23:37]
Sue Bird
You got a little, er.
- [23:38]
Satou Sabally
Yeah, exactly.
- [23:40]
Sue Bird
So I didn't know this, but part of your. Yeah, part of your. Somewhere here, part of your origin story is that you were spotted by a coach on a playground and that's kind of what got you into basketball. So I just was curious, like, how did that actually go down?
- [23:57]
Satou Sabally
Yeah, I was actually on a playground with my sister, and due to our height, we were just clearly visible. And my first coach, Gary, she saw us and went to my mom and was like, hey, are the kids in basketball? Like, they should really just come to my club and say sign up. Because, you know, we don't have, like, school teams or anything in Germany at that age. I was nine years old and I went to our German Basketball Federation, like, Kids Day Cam. It was like a girls and sports day, and I absolutely fell in love with it. I had no clue about basketball. Loved it. And then I signed up with her team because I'm like, well, she found me, like, I want to play for her. And it was an all boys team and that's how it all started.
- [24:43]
Sue Bird
Did it come naturally to you? Like, you said you loved it, but you didn't know a lot about it. Did, like, did the game itself come naturally?
- [24:50]
Satou Sabally
It did, but I think it was also more being outside of the apartment and like thinking about nothing else but just being in a present moment. I remember just like being so focused on like catching the ball, little things and dribbling the ball. I. I could tell, like, even when I think about it back, I had this exciting, nervous feeling that I still get sometimes when it's like a really big challenge in front of me. And I always welcome that feeling. Now I'm like, oh, that feels like back in the day. So that's more like it. I feel like I was always chasing that feeling and really liking that.
- [25:28]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [25:29]
Satou Sabally
Yeah.
- [25:30]
Sue Bird
That's funny. When I was little and I first started playing soccer, before my first game, I had like serious panic attack around picking the ball up with my hands. I was, I swore I was going to pick it up with my hands and I was like deathly afraid of doing this. You know, the end of the story is I go out first game, you know, I'm like six, I score a bunch of goals. And it's funny you bring that up though, because I think part of when you're younger and getting used to that feeling, it does help you when you're older, it's like, oh, this is like normal and you can still go and perform it like stays with you. So what else from, like, what else from your childhood, like growing up in Berlin, playing basketball at those, at those early ages, like, what else do you think you took with you? Like, that you even see now in yourself?
- [26:15]
Satou Sabally
That's a great question because it actually makes me smile when I look back to it. I would be super nervous before tournaments. I think I. Early on and I don't know why I always had that. I put a lot of pressure on myself just to like, you have to be good, you have to win. And like, if I would lose, I would not want to talk in the car on a ride home. Like, my mom said that I was way too serious. So I still have that with me. I'm just a very competitive person. And I think that also translated into my school life, into the academic side. I always kind of wanted to perform. Not to be perfect, but to really not let myself down and know you have to be Prepared to do so. And that preparedness and wanting to be really, like, prepared for the next practice or for the next game or even for the next test that you had in school. Every time when I prepared, I felt a lot more at ease. And when I didn't prepare or when I didn't go to practice or, I don't know, like, even canceling it for a kid's birthday, I would always have this feeling of, oh, I don't know, I shouldn't be doing this right now. Like, this intrinsic feeling of, okay, this is what I should be doing, and this is what I should not be doing. And that kind of still goes along with me and how I pursue my seasons or my day or the game.
- [27:41]
Sue Bird
Yeah, no, that makes total sense. How did. Growing up with. So you're third of seven. So you're the third oldest of seven kids. Obviously, we know Niara, another WNBA player for the Liberty. But what was it like growing up in a house with that. With that many. With that many siblings?
- [27:58]
Satou Sabally
It's a lot. Yeah. So it was always busy. I'm always. We were also always a house that would welcome other kids. So we were extra busy. But I absolutely loved it. Like, my. My siblings were my people. And you really learn how to function in a big community. Even growing up in Gambia, like, we always had people around, and that's how I really became a people person. Because you have to really manage different kind of characters and different kind of siblings, especially being one of the older ones. I think that you also develop this feeling for care and sympathy early on for your siblings. And I always loved it. But I mean, we grew up in a little apartment, so we were always on top of each other. Never had my own room. And now, even now as an adult, when I have my own room, I'm like, oh, wow. Like, I have my own room. And I still think about that sometimes. Cause we would literally be like four or five people in a room, you know?
- [28:59]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I never thought of that. Just how having, like, a big family actually in some way can segue into teamwork and, like, being on teams and being around people and having to, you know, give and take and all of that. So that's really interesting. I never thought about that. What about. You've already mentioned, like, part of your upbringing is Gambia, and then obviously you end up in Berlin. So how did growing up in, like, a multicultural household shape, I guess, like, the way you see the world, but then even the way you see the world of basketball and the game of basketball.
- [29:34]
Satou Sabally
I always say that I'm somewhat of a very global person because I just grew up all around the world. I've been exposed to different forms of diversity, like different cultures and also different kind of socioeconomic statuses. So it was just always, I feel like I was put in a lot of positions where I had to assimilate to other people around me and that it made me grow. But sometimes you also just had to sit back and look. And I think that the art of observing is something that I've learned, especially when you go to different countries, you've played in different countries, sometimes you just need to sit back and really see how they do things, because they might be very different from what you do. And I grew up in a family with, like, two main cultures that are very different, especially when it comes to, you know, community, but also to how, I don't know, women are being treated or how men are viewed as, you know, in the family dynamics. And I think that really translated also through sport, because I can play everywhere in the world, and it's your job. Right. So you need to be able to, I would say, really categorize people early and have to know, okay, how are they? Like, how are they more goal oriented or are they more, you know, life oriented? A little bit, if that makes sense. But it was always something that I think made me grow and made me get outside of my comfort zone, like, forcibly. So.
- [31:14]
Sue Bird
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. I think a lot of, again, team sports, it's like you're walking into a locker room, you have this group of people, and you do you kind of have to tap into each one. Yeah. You're like, okay, what is this one? Like, what is this one? Like, you're basically reading the room constantly.
- [31:31]
Satou Sabally
Yeah.
- [31:31]
Sue Bird
So it sounds like you grew up reading the room.
- [31:34]
Satou Sabally
Absolutely. Always had to read the room. And I think with the pros, too, that is something that I realized somewhat in the past months. Every time when you go into a locker room full of pros, like, everyone had their own journey. Right. Like, we have to overcome so much to even get to this point. And I don't even see them as, like, regular people anymore. I mean, this is like the 1%, you know, and especially in the WNBA, like, this is the hardest league to make. So everyone really overcame so much adversity. So I really see them as peers of being a champion at overcoming challenges along your way and really, like, never settling, pushing through injuries, but also pushing through life and still being able to keep the main thing. The main thing which is basketball. But I really Switched my viewpoint on how I see my other colleagues in the sports world especially.
- [32:29]
Sue Bird
All right, I'm going to take you back to Germany one more time. This, when I was reading about you, this stuck out the most. You actually, you know, you get older, you start playing. I don't know exactly how they refer to it like, but your school teams. But then you actually start playing on a pro team only at this point, you know, so it's like one or two years you're playing with this pro team, but you know not to take a salary or you're aware of the fact that your eligibility will get, you know, taken away if you take money. So I'm just like, if you could go back to that point, like, who is advising you on this? Why do you want to keep your college opportunities open to you? Because I know, I mean, you mentioned we all played overseas, so we all have come in contact with all different, I guess, like paths or routes to becoming a professional. And I don't know very many. I don't know, what were you, 15, 16? I don't know very many teenagers that are like, no, you can keep the money. I'm going to keep my options open. So if you could take me back to that, like, how did that. How did that come to be?
- [33:33]
Satou Sabally
I'm so competitive. It's so funny. I always wanted to be the best, right? And I kind of had this future vision. If I wanted to be the best, I have to be in America. And I need to compete against the best because I'm not about to measure myself against people that are not on the top, you know. And some of our German players, like Marie Guelisch, she played at Oregon State. She really inspired me to keep that option open because she went over, also had a good experience. But I also really wanted to keep my academic window open. I really thought it was super important for me to go to university first generation. So I think that that is just something that I am super proud of. And I wanted to keep that window open because when I would have stayed in Europe, it's very hard to combine sports and academics. And I think now, I mean, with nil and you know, the conferences being all mixed up and travel ways, I think that that part really changed. But for me back then, it was really an opportunity to combine both. And I was just so grateful for that. So I was okay, you know, not taking a paycheck. That also wasn't a lot. But I mean, I didn't come from a lot, so it was a lot.
- [34:50]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [34:51]
Satou Sabally
So I Was okay not taking that paycheck, but they would, you know, still pay for food like on. On trips and all that. So. And I would be able to get around. The German basketball federation also helped out because my family was not in a situation to, you know, really provide like that when I moved away. So it was just, it was an interesting dynamic of just really making it work for two years and knowing that, okay, in two years. This is the sacrifice you make right now of not going to Italy or not going to Spain and playing at a young age pro, but really still taking school serious and looking at the long term goals that I had.
- [35:31]
Sue Bird
This is like an impossible question to answer. Do you think you would have ended up where you are now had you just stayed in Germany? You probably wouldn't have stayed in Germany. You just said you would have gotten offers from all the euroleague teams. So do you think you would be sitting here right now had you taken that path?
- [35:50]
Satou Sabally
I think so, because I feel like it's my destiny to be here, honestly. Yes, absolutely. I would be here, but it would have been a different way. And I don't think I would have accomplished all the goals that I really put forward. I think sometimes it's really important to manifest what you really want. And if I tell you, like, I mean, I was kind of a nerd. I really love. I liked school. And even now, sometimes when I just play basketball, I'm like, oh, I'm a little bored. I miss it.
- [36:18]
Sue Bird
Let me go take some classes.
- [36:19]
Satou Sabally
Yeah, I would love to, but I just, I don't know, I probably wouldn't have gotten my degree and I don't think I would have been happy with that because that was, like I said, super important to me also because I had the opportunity. University in Germany is free. Not that I took the scholarship for granted, but I was like, yeah, I better have a scholarship. Like, school shouldn't be free. Why should I go into debt for studying? But yeah, I don't know. I was just super grateful that I was able to get that scholarship at Oregon, be surrounded by amazing people. And I think that's also what. I don't know that I would miss it, but I would miss out on. I would have missed out on all the personal relationships that I made at Oregon. Like, that was just truly a time that I would never want to erase from my memory. Down from freshman year to junior year. I only stayed three years because I knew it was time to go. But that was truly like some of the best time of my life.
- [37:23]
Sue Bird
I mean, well, now the elephants in the room here. We got to ask, why Oregon? I have to say, it's funny because, like, for an American. Yeah, for an American, someone going to Oregon's like, not strange. It's like, oh, that's what they chose. They got recruited. But for some reason, when a European player chooses something that's like, first of all, you couldn't, you can't get further. I guess Hawaii, I guess you could have gone further. You can't get further. Same thing. Actually, one of your teammates, Kit. Kitty. Kitty. Aloxa. I asked her, she's from Latvia. She chose South Florida. Sometimes it can just feel kind of random. So why Oregon?
- [38:00]
Satou Sabally
It was the family dynamic that sold me. I was all in. After I also took my visit, they recruited me early and I was really thinking that they were the people that didn't make me promises. You're going to play 40 minutes, you're going to do this, you're going to do this. They're like, no, we're going to make you better. This is what we can work on. So they really sat me down and spoke to me about how I can become the best version of myself. And I love that. I didn't want to go somewhere where, you know, they rolled out the red carpet and it was going to be super easy. I don't know. I just always knew that you have to be challenged in order to grow. And I put myself willingly in those situations. And I mean, I was just so far away from home. So that first year was really, really hard. But that's why it was so important that that family dynamic was there, because I don't have any family in America. So you really go, you know, as an 18, 19 year old woman or young girl, like, you really go alone to a different continent and you just live by yourself. You know, we didn't live in dorms, we were in apartments. But you cook, you clean, you do everything for yourself. And it's just very different when you don't have immediate family there. But yeah, I mean, I loved it. And as soon as I visited the campus too, I'm like, oh, this, you know, you would just under huge trees to school. Like it was just so beautiful too. Didn't know it was raining all year long, but it's still nice. You get used to it. And you definitely get shamed for having an umbrella or something. So I don't know.
- [39:35]
Sue Bird
It's so funny you say that. I tell people all the time, like, Seattle, it's, it's not exactly the same climate, but like Pacific Northwest. It's kind of similar Seattle. It's like the same city that will shun you if you jaywalk. Nobody in Seattle jaywalk. When I first got there, I was like, what the fuck is it? Nobody jaywalks. They'll shun you. It's like a citizen's arrest if you jaywalk. But then they will at the same time call you a wimp if you have an umbrella.
- [40:01]
Satou Sabally
Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, what do you mean, I'm gonna have my umbrella? But then at some point, I stopped having an umbrella, too, because I really saw. Okay, they just have their little raincoats.
- [40:10]
Sue Bird
They got the little hoodie.
- [40:12]
Satou Sabally
Yeah, Honestly, too. I also wasn't recruited by, like, the top level schools. And I always. I think my goal was always, oh, I want to go to UConn, because they're the best. But, like, I didn't get the attention from the major schools. And I think once I got to university and once I saw how the NCAA works, I realized, like, oh, yeah, no, the top schools definitely did not recruit me. But we made it work. We really.
- [40:42]
Sue Bird
We were like, oh, I see. I see who they're talking about on espn.
- [40:45]
Satou Sabally
Yeah. I'm like, oh, wow.
- [40:48]
Sue Bird
Wait, so how did you get. How were these schools able to see you? Like, one thing that's like a. I think an amazing fun fact about you is you're the first player to play in the Jordan Classic. So the first. Sorry. You're the first international player to play in the Jordan Classic. Now you see young international players coming through there all the time. So that's really amazing that you have this. You've created this pathway. So what was some of the. I'm assuming the Jordan Classic there had to have been, I don't know, like, U18, you know.
- [41:18]
Satou Sabally
Yeah.
- [41:19]
Sue Bird
National championship.
- [41:20]
Satou Sabally
That's how I really got colleges.
- [41:23]
Sue Bird
How are they seeing you?
- [41:24]
Satou Sabally
Yeah, I played on a national team, but my problem was always. So Germany was not really good in basketball. We didn't play in the A division, so I would play in a B division and we would always go up. But then I was too old to actually play in the A division, so my sister reaped the benefits of that one. They would always play the A division, but I. Yeah, I guess a ref told the assistant coaches at Oregon about me when he saw me in, like, under 16 or under 18. And that's how I got discovered. And I think that's how my name got, you know, just like. Just spoken about. But it was a coincidence. And I think just by time, people were more aware of me. But, yeah, I mean, the Jordan Marin Classic, that was just such a cool experience. I didn't know anyone. I was super nervous. I think I scored, like two points that game. Like, I really thought, oh, I suck. Like, they all think I suck. But I just. It was completely different. Right. And people knew what they were getting into. I had no idea what I'm getting into, but it was just really, now looking back, like I belonged there. And I think that is also something that I always tell people. If you're in a room, you belong there. And whether you're willingly belonging there or not, you have to make yourself aware that you are there right now. So I don't know. That was a really cool experience. And I think just opening the gateway for a lot of other international players. I was inspired by German players going overseas. So me being able to do so, maybe even with unrivaled having more international players at some point, that's just such an opportunity that I want other people also to have.
- [43:12]
Sue Bird
I cannot believe a referee is the reason you got put on the mat.
- [43:16]
Satou Sabally
I know, right? That's why I can't even beat referees.
- [43:21]
Sue Bird
Every now and then you gotta be like, thank you, thank you, thank you. So, yeah, so you adjust, like, super quick. When you get to Oregon. You're Pac 12, freshman of the year, did well. First of all, what was that adjustment like to the college game? I mean, we've already talked a little bit about being. Being on your own for the first time in a new country. Not a lot of family. I can only imagine the other cultural differences that were just popping up, if you want to share. Yeah, but on the court, like, how was that adjustment?
- [43:56]
Satou Sabally
Yeah, so in the end of it all, you have the same goal, like, get the ball in a hoop. But it was a lot more athletic and physical to me. I think in Europe, we're really skilled on the X's and O's, you know, running a motion, like passing the ball, finding your flow. I think I had that down. But really the athletic side and the seriousness about it too, like, I could tell, okay, now you really play for something, and it's just such a big level. Like, you get a lot, but you also have to give a lot. So that was different. Your schedule was super intense. But then on the game per se, I really. I mean, I traveled a lot the first game.
- [44:38]
Sue Bird
Yeah. Honestly, it happens the other way too, though. When we go over to Europe, we're traveling all over the place.
- [44:43]
Satou Sabally
Exactly. So it was just odd. I Remember that first game? And I think we played Texas A and M in Texas, and I traveled like, five times, and Kelly just took me off. He said, you need to just. It's okay. Just, like, sit down. Because I would get so frustrated because you would just want to play. But. Yeah. And then fans started talking. They're like, she can't even play. She doesn't know the rules. And I'm like, guys, stop it. No, I'm good.
- [45:10]
Sue Bird
Were you traveling? So this is something I've noticed, like, European. So when were you traveling? Were you traveling, like, off the dribble or when you were at, like, when you were finishing in the lane?
- [45:20]
Satou Sabally
Off the dribble, two step. And then I would do that, like, reverse hop when it looks like you do three steps, but you really, like, jump off. And they would call that in college all the time. And I would get really frustrated. That was just so awful because, you know, you can't stop it. Like, it's just in five. No, it's part of it. Yeah.
- [45:43]
Sue Bird
That's like, part of your game. Yeah. I always notice, like, Americans that go over to Europe, we always struggle. You've just caught it. You've got your pivot foot that the like, basically moving before you put it down. That's always the big one for the Americans. I notice Europeans in. In the US it's like it's all the extra steps around the rim or.
- [46:03]
Satou Sabally
Yeah. After that, I had this whole session on my pivot foot. Yeah, for sure I did.
- [46:10]
Sue Bird
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- [47:26]
Satou Sabally
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- [47:58]
Sue Bird
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Satou Sabally
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- [48:24]
Sue Bird
Well, you figured it out because like I said, you finished Pac 12 freshman of the year. You guys got to the elite eight that year, which was back to back elite eights for the team you join and you kind of like create a force with Sabrina Unescu. So what was playing with Saab like in those couple years?
- [48:43]
Satou Sabally
It was great. I think that she really is also a person that I always looked up to because she, she knew early on how the system works and what she wanted. And I think that she, she didn't take things lightly. And I love that, you know, like just coming in and really wanting to work and get better. I love being around people like that. And she was exactly like that. So it' that, oh, you're doing too much. No, there's someone else really like leading the way and really showing you how to do things. And I think also her having a Romanian background and kind of that international background, we connected in that way because she understood, she also understood what I'm going through, you know, being in a different country. But she, she's just great. Like we had such a good time in Oregon and we went so far too. And I wish we could have, you know, had our last year. But even if we didn't, those relationships will stay forever. And she's definitely a relationship that I was Even talking about earlier, you know, like, being able to go to a wedding and seeing her mature into this global superstar is just so amazing. Like, having your shoe and really knowing that, like, you're the face of Oregon even, you know, like, that is just such a cool honor, too, to be. To have a teammate like that who's really, like, making it and such a generational and, I don't know, inspiration for so many people. That is just really super great. But I think where we really connected is just, like, our ambitious mind and really our competitive mindset in games and in practice. And we would go hard in Oregon. Like, we would always go hard against each other. We would go hard all the time. Like, all of our teammates did, Even Ruthie, you know, Ruthie was also there, and that was just such a cool class that we had that they really all just stayed together.
- [50:46]
Sue Bird
Yeah. No, honestly. So I interviewed Sabrina, like, much earlier. She's actually the first interview on this podcast, and then now talking to you and just hearing about what makes you tick a little bit. You guys are similar, and the word I was gonna say is ambitious. And you kind of took it out of my mouth. Like, you're both. You kind of have your eye on a prize, and you're gonna do what you can. So I could imagine at a young age, teaming up with somebody you guys got up with unrivaled again. So that. That had to have been pretty cool. But you brought up Ruthie. What do you think? So that trio, you guys. You guys put Oregon on the map in a different way. You had success in the NCAA tournament. Sadly, you didn't get to. You know, you got to the Final Four. What was your sophomore year? Yeah, you didn't get to kind of, like, have that redemption, revenge situation the next year because of COVID We'll actually get to that in a second. But what do you think made you, Sabrina and Ruthie such a successful, but really a dynamic trio?
- [51:43]
Satou Sabally
We were all. Well, we all had the same goal. Right. But we were all very different, and we embraced our differences, too, and we were not selfish. Like, it was all about winning. Whoever had the hot hand had the hot hand, but we would really share the ball. We would play for each other. We wouldn't play for our own agenda. Like, although, you know, even as an athlete, you want to be the best or you should want to be the best, but that doesn't mean overpowering someone else on your own squad and knowing how strong that unity is and how strong that unity can be if you're all on the same page and, like, make sacrifices for one another and really know that you're here to play with this unit, and this is what you got. So you have to make it work. And even if you have to take a step back sometimes, that's okay because we have that main goal in perspective. So I think that is really what made us great. I mean, Ruthie just, like, continuing to feed her in the pain because you knew she might score 33 in a row, you know, like, she did not miss layups and then sab in her pick and roll. I was pretty dynamic. I was everywhere. It was just something that we filled the gaps for one another, and that's really what made us so strong.
- [53:03]
Sue Bird
Yeah, well, sadly, I got to experience it firsthand.
- [53:06]
Satou Sabally
Yeah.
- [53:06]
Sue Bird
When you guys beat.
- [53:07]
Satou Sabally
When we played together, that was, by the way, definitely. Like, that might have been my top moment of the career because. Because it was just so crazy. Like, I was fangirling Hard Sue. Like, you know, this was the first time I saw all of you guys. And, I mean, it's team usa, so it was great just even playing against you guys. And then we were just in the game, and we were like, hey, we can win this game. I don't know. In the third quarter. So we.
- [53:37]
Sue Bird
Yeah, it was the third quarter.
- [53:38]
Satou Sabally
It was definitely the third quarter. We were just in a huddle, and we're like, yeah, we can beat them. Like, this is not for fun anymore. We can beat them. And, yeah, it was awesome. Yeah.
- [53:48]
Sue Bird
I mean, listen, it wasn't awesome for us, but looking back in the moment, it wasn't awesome, but looking back, the crowd was amazing.
- [53:56]
Satou Sabally
Yes.
- [53:57]
Sue Bird
Like, unbelievable. The environment was so fun. You guys played so well. I don't even remember. I. I know you had 25, because I just looked it up. But, like, Sabrina played well. You guys. It seemed like. I want to say we were up at halftime, like, 10 or something like that. And then in that third quarter, to be on the other side of feeling like, wow, what do you do with this team? Like, that's who you guys were, right? Like, that trio. You had other players on the team, too, though, that just kind of filled in exactly where you needed them to fill in. So I got a taste of what you guys could have been in that NCAA run at the end of 2020 that sadly got taken from COVID Do you think back on that? I feel like you guys in South Carolina are the two teams that year. Everybody wanted you to meet up in the finals. Like, it was the two best teams. Does. I don't know. Do you think about it? Does it sting a little bit that you didn't get that chance?
- [54:51]
Satou Sabally
I think I've done my grieving for sure, but it's definitely something that will never go away fully. Like, you. You want to have that national championship. So every time when I go there this year, I actually went back to the Final Four, and it was the same arena that we had lost in in my sophomore year in the Final Four, and we lost against Baylor, so they won that year. And I just remember, like, that pit in my stomach again. I'm like, oh, first of all, I never really realized how big the NCAA tournament was. Like, I didn't even know what it was before I played my freshman year. Okay. So the second year, I knew what's going on, and I really wanted to play. In the third year, I'm like, okay, I have this down. This is good. I know I'm gonna get to the end point. And then the whole world had to stop to make us stop. That's what I say, and that's what I find peace with. And also, like, just putting things in perspective. I still had an amazing year, and I got drafted. And the destiny of so many others. So many others had a different life and different outcome from COVID than I did. So I just also want to put things into perspective and find gratitude within the things that I got in that moment. But of course, it stings. Like we would. I would love to have that national championship ring with a little duck on there, but it's okay. I'll wait and get that W Championship. Okay. Fair.
- [56:16]
Sue Bird
You mentioned this earlier, but you did leave a year of eligibility on the table. Was this just like you kind of said? You knew it was just time?
- [56:24]
Satou Sabally
Yeah, Well, I got what I came here for. I got my degree. I majored and minored, and I kind of just. I was on a speed. Speed thing in the school thing. So I'm like, I want to get my money. I've been just sacrificing my salary for a long time now. And I used to be in the meetings, too, for the PAC12 committee. I used to be in the meetings advocating for athletes to get paid and get the nil check. And I'm so happy that I was part of that. And I didn't get to reap the benefits, but so many others did, and it was definitely worth it. But for me, I would have been in the first year of that nil eligibility. But during COVID it was such an uncertain time. I knew I'm most Likely going to get drafted second or high. And I think for me it was just time to close that chapter, close it with gratitude and just move on to the pros because like I said, I always wanted to go to the top. So that was the top. And I was just really excited to get drafted, play against you guys daily. And that just excited me. And I felt like, okay, if I would have stayed at Oregon, I would have been comfortable. And again, that was just not something I wanted to do yet.
- [57:45]
Sue Bird
We already mentioned it. You get drafted second to Dallas, you don't get the traditional rookie experience because you're not moving to the city and getting to know it. Yeah, favorite spots. You get drafted into the bubble again because of COVID What a wild way to enter the league. So just real quick, when you think back on the bubble experience, like whatever.
- [58:16]
Satou Sabally
You'Re playing with no fans, you see your opponents next morning at breakfast. That was just awkward. But I remember also being able to, you know, see you and like see Candace. And when she was speaking to me too, I was just like, oh my God, she's right here, she's right here. She's just talking to me in the lunch line. But just the daily testing was exhausting. You were with people, you lived with people that you didn't really know and you lived with them for a long time in a small space. So after three months, we were ready to leave that campus, but you still had another month left to play. And obviously we didn't do as great in Dallas my first year. We were just trying to make it work. I think we were the youngest team in the league, but we had a lot of fun still. We had great experiences. And I wouldn't have changed it, honestly, like I still would have played in a bubble. And what was so prevalent to me during that time is really like the social justice movement. I know some people opted out not to play because they felt like there were bigger things going on in basketball. But I always feel like basketball has given me the vessel to be public and give me that platform to speak out on things. And I think doing that in the bubble was just so amazing. Along like minded women that also felt the same way. And I just felt super inspired and I also felt sheltered enough to do so in that bubble. I think that really unified us as a league. And I mean that was my first year and I was just exposed to the full truth of what it means to be a WNBA player and what the W stands for. And that was just so cool to see that you can play for an organization. And it's not just shut up and dribble. It's actually like, no, we really are amplifying your voices and we want you women to be heard. Yeah, I love that. And that is some of the. That is something that I take from that bubble year with me.
- [60:18]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I remember you were young, you were just a rookie, and yet you were all like, wanted to be in the mix, the social justice council very much involved. So I remember thinking that about you because I feel like that time, I mean, you said it so perfectly, like we were playing basketball, but we're also essentially using the basketball platform to have these other conversations. And I could just imagine a younger player that being a lot. Yeah, because it is a lot.
- [60:49]
Satou Sabally
It's a lot.
- [60:50]
Sue Bird
It can be a lot.
- [60:51]
Satou Sabally
It's a lot. I think it gave me more peace though, because I always felt like I was sitting at home and I felt like I couldn't do anything. I felt so powerless. And I think then I actually felt really powerful because you, you felt like you could use your time and you could use your resources to do something good.
- [61:08]
Sue Bird
Yeah, right. Absolutely. When it comes to the basketball part of it, what. You know, you already mentioned physicality. Kind of learning about physicality when you first get to college. What are you now learning about? Actually, the question I want to ask you is I would say you're the type of player, you're. We've already called you the unicorn, but you're unique in that you can play a physical game if you have to. You can also play a skill oriented game if you have to. You can do both at the same time. So I'm actually more curious because I imagine.
- [61:39]
Satou Sabally
I like that analysis.
- [61:42]
Sue Bird
WNBA is just more physical, so I'm assuming that was a little bit of an adjustment. But how do you kind of juggle and balance what I just said, the physicality versus your skill.
- [61:57]
Satou Sabally
So being okay with things taking a longer time when you have to work on multiple skills is something that I had to be patient with because I'm not the type of person that has one talent. And this is what I'll do and this is what I'll get perfection with. But over time, I realized, okay, my three point, I was shooting like 19% from three.
- [62:22]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I saw it. I looked it up.
- [62:23]
Satou Sabally
Oh, it was horrible. I cried. I cried. I cried so much my rookie season because I'm just like, what is going on? This is not me. But I spoke. I spoke to some, you know, really like some legends that I had access to and they just kept telling me, nah, like look at your highlight tapes. Like believe in yourself. Like you are a shooter, so just shoot it. But really knowing when you would get your shots and how you would get your shots and letting the game slow down a little bit, that is something that I just had to learn. Although it was more physical, I knew I'm not about to bang with Sylvia Fowles. So you know, maybe try to drag her out the pain and try to attack her might be a better thing than trying to post a post op that I would have been able to do in college. So just knowing first of all you're playing against grown women, it's going to be more physical. And also knowing you're coming for a job so people are not going to be light with you. Like the amount of times that I was on the floor from the rookie season to now, it's probably like such a difference. But yeah, you will be on that floor and it just, you always have to get back up. Like get back up, get back up, get back up. And you just have to get through that first year because that is the hardest. But then also knowing the scout, knowing people's tendencies and what they will do. So you really have to like study their first and second move. If you really like that, you will know their third move. But you as a player like me, you will guard multiple positions. So you need to know everyone on that scout. So also just having grace that it might take a little bit longer if you're more versatile players, knowing that with more versatility comes also more practice that requires to, you know, perfect that specific skill. So that is something that I just had to be okay with and be confident with too. Cause I still had a great year, but I felt like I was just doing horrible and I was still doing good as a rookie.
- [64:29]
Sue Bird
Yeah, honestly, when I was, you know, just looking up some little stats and things like that, preparing for this, the 19% surprised me. I don't remember. That's not how I would have remembered your, the bubble season at all. Like, I feel like you hit the ground running in a lot of ways. Obviously a rookie, but still hit the ground running. You mentioned having one of the youngest teams. So now we fast forward to the next couple years and you guys like when you think back on like your second year, your third year, first of all, you had some injuries in both years. But in 2021, like you're an all star. Like your team is young but you're making playoffs. You make playoffs in 2021 and then again in 2022, I believe. Yeah. What do you, what do you, like, what do you think is brewing in Dallas?
- [65:18]
Satou Sabally
Like, yeah, we had a great squad. Like, we had a great squad. It was so much fun to play too. And I think we. We would always play up right. Like, we would always want to beat the other people. Cause we might have not been that good in our standing, but we always made it, and that was just great. And even when we made it to the semifinals two years ago, it was. I mean, we got swept by Vegas, who then won the whole thing again. And it was just like, okay, we're not. We're not at that level yet. But I think that along the years, what was going on for us was like a lot of coaches changes. And I think I played with a different point guard every single year of my career there. And it was just like, that would get exhausting almost, because you almost felt like you always had to rebuild and you always had to bring people together. But our corps was really great and we would go to war for each other. I think we kind of grew up with each other and matured together and we always wanted to go to war together. And we're excited for these games and we had a lot of fun off the court too, so. So I think we had, like, a great balance of that, but I don't think we had that, like, elite discipline yet in the games. That would have been, you know, making us champions. We were not that yet at that point in time. But when I look back at it, I mean, obviously, like, I just learned so much because people were also coming for us. We were the big girls. Like, we were a tall team. We were definitely dominant in the pain. So it was also just like, it was fun games.
- [67:05]
Sue Bird
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- [67:29]
Tommy Alter
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- [67:41]
Satou Sabally
Part of legendary nights.
- [67:42]
Tommy Alter
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- [67:45]
Satou Sabally
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- [67:47]
Tommy Alter
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- [67:56]
Satou Sabally
It's been so long. How have you been?
- [67:58]
Sue Bird
Hello. I'm doing well, Dave.
- [68:01]
Satou Sabally
Why are you talking that way?
- [68:02]
Sue Bird
Please say one for a compliment or two for a question.
- [68:06]
Tommy Alter
Yeah, this is weird. I think I'm gonna go.
- [68:09]
Sue Bird
Talking with an automated phone tree can feel pretty ridiculous. That's why when you call Pacific Source Health Plans, you'll get a real person to answer all your important questions. Pacific Source Health Plans. This is a real person. How can I help you? Human service, not automated phone trees. Find a plan@pacificsourcemembersfirst.com yeah, I think when I think back on your time at Dallas and I wonder if you'll. You'll think of it this way in like 5, 10, 15. It was all there.
- [68:34]
Satou Sabally
It was all there.
- [68:35]
Sue Bird
You guys, you had the talent, you had the youth. You were all coming together. But really because of injuries, especially in 2024, injuries, just like you guys never really got to get going. But for you, you did have a breakthrough year. I think 2023 was really like, you put your, your flag in the sand on, this is who I am. This is who I'm going to be. I mean, you win most improved, your WNBA all first team, you're an all Star again, fifth in MVP voting. What do you think changed for you in that season?
- [69:12]
Satou Sabally
In that season? Okay, well, I think for me, I was just like, sick and tired of losing. Like, I, I couldn't, I couldn't look at a 9 and 30 record anymore and be happy about. Not happy about that. But I feel like I matured out of the. Oh, I'm just happy to be here. Like, I made it to the W. And I think your first years, you just kind of have to get your feet wet and under yourself and you have to learn. You have to learn the environment that you're in right now. And that year I just, I just really, like, took it game by game. I took care of my body. I slept a lot more. I really just really, I acted like a pro and that translated to my game. And I also, I don't know, it was just also a year I didn't play all year round. I had a little bit more energy. I think a lot of times the injuries also just came from playing all year round. Like, I was just at some point, like, you can't play 300, you know, 65 days a year. Like, it's just a lot going on. But that year I just really remember feeling mentally clear and also physically ready to tackle this season. And I think we had, like, 36 games that year.
- [70:34]
Sue Bird
It's funny because I already mentioned it. Playing against you at Oregon, then playing against you, you know, for my. What was my, like, last two, three years? You had it.
- [70:45]
Satou Sabally
Yeah.
- [70:46]
Sue Bird
It wasn't like 2023 was some huge surprise. It was just like, oh, she's here now. That's what it felt like. Okay, now she's here.
- [70:53]
Satou Sabally
We got it. We figured it out. Yeah.
- [70:56]
Sue Bird
Yeah. So I imagine when you look back on your Dallas years, like I said, there might be some, like, shoulda, coulda, wouldas, but you also got to find yourself. And we're going to get to kind of like your Phoenix days now and bring it present. But before we do, 2024, you hurt your shoulder, so you really. You play in the second part of the WNBA season, but not in the first part. But that's an Olympic year, and I don't think a lot of people realize, A, it's the first time Germany has qualified for the Olympics. B, a lot of it is on your back. Of course. You guys are, like, super talented, super young. Obviously, Leonie Phoebus, your sister, there's a lot of young talents. You guys are good. You deserve to be there. But you just mentioned when you were growing up, you had to play in the B league. So you've helped build this, and now because of your shoulder, you actually might miss this opportunity. So what was the stress levels in the months and weeks leading up to the Olympics knowing that you could actually miss this opportunity?
- [71:57]
Satou Sabally
Shout out to my doctor in la, you know, my surgeon, but also shout out to the people around me that made it work. I mean, the day I was told I needed surgery was like a complete shock to me because I'm like, what do you mean I need surgery? Like, the Olympics are in five months. I need to play, and it's February, and my whole world just crushed. Like, I flew back to Dallas. You know, like, people don't talk enough about kind of like, the trauma that you get from being told, nah, you need to get cut open. And so, you know, you might miss the biggest thing that you've worked for. Like, the Olympics were like a dream to me because Germany has never made it. So that was a dream. And then I flew back to Dallas. I was there for two days, flew back to LA and got the surgery. And the doctor, just right before I went to sleep, he was just like, don't worry, you'll play. I got you. And I was just like, all right, bet. And Then I woke up and I just knew before that I really had to put that mindset of like, you have five months and you need to take every single week serious. He also told me, you can't do too much because you might like you right on that cusp of like, if you do too much, you will have a week long setback. What was it? It was my label, my shooting arm. So it was my shooting arm. And I'm just like, I'm never going to be able to shoot again. Like my career is over. These things go through your head and, and you just have to stay strong. Like every single morning you have to put into perspective why are you going to PT and also learning, like really listening to your body, blending out, distractions. I was really on a five month grind just to be able to play. And like the first time I played live was against you guys in London against Team usa. And that was. Yeah, that was the first time I went live and it was like a week before the Olympics. So the Olympics were really hard. But I was just so happy that I made it and that was my goal. I'm gonna play in the Olympics. Then when we played against France, I was just crushed. I was tired. I just couldn't do it anymore. I don't know. But it motivates me for the next time. You can't get everything at once sometimes. And sometimes you just have to be okay with that gradual process and finding gratitude. So that was leaning on friends, leaning on people that support you. My friend moved with me to LA and like helped me for 10 weeks after the surgery. So just really being able to lean on your system around you makes you also realize that life is just really precious.
- [74:34]
Sue Bird
I totally hear you. Having to carry the load of the unknown, right? Not knowing if you're going to make it, then you get there and you are the main player, you know, one of, but I would argue the main player on the team. So you're having to carry that load too. But you did really well. You finished. Not finished, but you did really well. You were second team. I didn't even know they did this, but they have like first team, second team now at the Olympics. Your second team.
- [74:59]
Satou Sabally
Oh, nice. I didn't know.
- [75:00]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I looked that up. I didn't even know. I'm like, maybe I have to fact check myself. But I'm pretty sure you were second team in Paris. You already mentioned you got to the quarters, which I think that is amazing perspective to have, knowing that there are times where, and I've talked about this on this podcast. Like, sadly, you do have to kind of fail in order to get to the next level, in order to get to the next phase, to get to the next, in this case round.
- [75:26]
Satou Sabally
All my losses have come so far. Like all my big time losses. For example, in that elite eight in college, there was such fuel. Like, you never want to feel that way again. When we lost against Vegas and the semis in Dallas, I just remember really thinking, I am not good enough yet. So when all the people came for me on the Internet about my little comment, I'm like, it's not meant bad. Like, you're not, you're just not there yet. And that's okay. And if you, if you focus on that yet, that really spins it into a positive way of thinking. You still have so much growth to do and work to do, and it's an amazing opportunity. Like, I know that I'm going to leave everything out on the floor because I don't want to ever feel like that again or like prepare even better and like level up. I think being a pro is literally about leveling up in every single aspect. And you learn how to be a pro. So, yeah, I'm grateful for all my losses because I really feel like they've made me the person that I become now. And I know that, like, no one can take that away from you, that mindset that, that you built through, through those times because you know you win, you win more than you lose. So it's really, it's really, really putting that in perspective.
- [76:42]
Sue Bird
Yeah, absolutely. Don't kill me for this segue. But speaking of level up, leveling up, you asked for a trade.
- [76:50]
Satou Sabally
Yep.
- [76:52]
Sue Bird
Heading into the 2025 season, very quickly you asked for a trade. You get Cord, which of course Dallas is going to do that so they can get something on the other side of it. But I believe worked with you. What ultimately got you to Phoenix? Like, why Phoenix? What was it about the franchise that you chose it?
- [77:11]
Satou Sabally
So it was really, it was really being around greatness. I think at this point I, I felt like I left everything in Dallas and I poured so much into, into a club where I felt like there's no stability that will really give me the stability that I need or like the groundworks. I felt like I gave everything and I wasn't able to leave sooner. So that was the year to leave. And I just really, I don't know, I was just happy that Phoenix, being an organization that really provides for their players and has an ecosystem that allows you to really flourish and like focus on, you know, the best rehab people out here. Like, I realized once I was here, I'm like, oh, Adam, we didn't know there was not a lot of resources, like worrying about your own pregame meals, like, that's crazy. And I no shade at all. But I think we deserve to be in organizations that cater to their players. And this is what's happening here. And this is not just talk like they were. This is really a great organization that has been there for many years too. So they know how to do things, what not to do. And you know, they've had players like Diana Taurasi, BG come through that organization already that are legendary. So it's just different. And being able to follow legacy and really follow those big shoes, try to fill those big shoes is again another challenge. KA took me aside, we had brunch at unrivaled at pulled me aside and we just spoke about what could be and what our goals are. And we were on a page. We were on the same page. And I was just really thinking, this is where I want to be and this is where I want to spend my next years and really give it a try.
- [79:07]
Sue Bird
Yeah. One of the quotes you had was that you were looking for happiness and performance and it definitely sounds like you got it. In Phoenix in your first game, you have 27, which is like a Mercury record for a debut. So. And then you just mentioned having these conversations in the off season with KA and at who you ultimately team up with. What do you think got you personally so comfortable that quick? Because to come out, have a debut like that, that's. That's saying that you're like, you're comfortable in what you guys are doing.
- [79:38]
Satou Sabally
Honestly, I was just free. I think it was mentally I was just happy to for new star all year long. I really prepared for it. And like I said, like having a break through year, losing in the semis and then being set back by a surgery, still playing the Olympics, which was like a highlight, but I didn't feel like I accomplished that. WNBA checkbox so I really, I'm pursuing this whole season with like complete focus. We want to win this year. And sometimes when you are in a new group and you don't know everyone else, you kind of just have to like be even more sensitive to people around you and have your goals even more and like objectively put into perspective. And that's what we did. And I think that first game I was just like, like, let's get it. We're here. I'm Free, like we can play. And I think the first game is always the easiest, honestly, like, just. Just play. Just who Feel out, feel it out.
- [80:40]
Sue Bird
Yeah, that makes sense. So where you are now in your game this season, you're averaging like, close to 17 points where you are now. How do you describe your game? Right. We've already mentioned the unicorn. We've talked about kind of like your evolution with physicality. Obviously very skilled. You're called the unicorn because you can do so many things at your size, at your versatility. But where you're sitting now, how do you. How do you, like, describe your game?
- [81:07]
Satou Sabally
I would describe it as gritty. I want to be physical on defense, and I want to kind of have my defense lead into offense, but also getting to the rim. I know my spots better, and I mean, I'm playing in a new system, so I feel like I'm still getting used to it sometimes, but I know who's guarding me. I'm more familiar with players. I know what your tendencies are, so I think I'm playing a more educated game based on who's in front of me, too. And I know that, I don't know, against New York, I might be able to drive more into the lane than against Atlanta, like, things like that. I think just like, really figuring out how you. Who you play against is something that. That I'm strong at. So it's really, again, being that versatile player and really analyzing the game like I'm an overthinker. So I would think about it a lot of times before I actually do it. And then in the game, it just. Just comes. So, yeah, I'll shoot the three. I'll do everything soon.
- [82:15]
Sue Bird
I mean, yeah, when you got it like that, when you look at this roster, something that sticks out, right? Yes. The trio. You're now in this new trio, if you will, with ka, with at you guys getting, I still feel like you guys are still. Because of injuries, at different moments, you're still forming your chemistry as like a quote unquote, big three. But then you got to look at the rest of your roster, which has been really impressive. First of all, you guys are in the top three in, like, defensive rating. Right. So even though it's so easy to talk about offense, it's actually your defense. I would say that is really, like, got you guys humming especially early. You could talk about Natasha Mack there, but then you talk about bringing in Sammy Wickham.
- [82:57]
Satou Sabally
Yes.
- [82:57]
Sue Bird
Like just that player who always is going to keep pace going. But really what I want to get to you have some newbies, man. You've got like, Monique Akoa Makani, Lexi Held, Kathryn West Belt. I already mentioned Kit Loxa from earlier. Essentially coming out of nowhere. And I feel like they've really, the, you know, that group has really, like, held you guys down while you three had some injuries and were figuring some things out. Can you just talk about, like, were you surprised that they meshed so quick?
- [83:29]
Satou Sabally
Once I realized how good they put us all together, even based off personality, I wasn't surprised. I have literally, like, full trust within our GM and coaching staff and organization because you just see, like, things just make sense around you here. So it wasn't really a surprise. And I mean, even in training camp, like, we were going at it. Our training camp was not for the week. Like you. It was not for the week. It was really high level. And our rookies are not regular rookies. Like, they've just been added. They'll get a bucket. They are high level on defense. Mo has, you know, hasn't even played euroleague. And as a starting point guard on the WNBA team, that's like top four. So just. That just speaks so much to her. But then also having leaders like Sammy, I mean, I hated playing against her because she was like the fastest shooter, you know, like, you guys would have her all the time.
- [84:26]
Sue Bird
I know. And now you love it, right?
- [84:27]
Satou Sabally
I love it. I mean, it's ridiculous how fast.
- [84:29]
Sue Bird
Wait, she's still. Is she still, like, ruining practice with her offensive rebounds, I'd be like, why are you chasing these every time? Every time.
- [84:38]
Satou Sabally
But she's. I mean, she, like, even besides that, her leadership is just something that I really look up to. And her energy, she's in a gym. First things first. She even drove me here this morning. It's just always so helpful. But DB having someone that's top tier and leading all time in the WNBA history, that's just something where I'm also like, I have so much to learn. And this is also why I came here. Like, again, I want to be the best player out here. And I soak in knowledge. I'm someone I always like to learn. And her giving me little adjustments in my game have already helped me, like, things like that or at really being on me, like at will not take possessions off or take things lightly on you, but it's just really something that makes you better. And a lot of times people are intimidated to teach great players more, but we are really open to communicating. We're open to making each other better. And I think that's really, how we have been able to build our strong unit here. Yeah, yeah. And DB Is one.
- [85:49]
Sue Bird
I'm like, I totally forgot about db. I'm like, listen to all these people. No, you do. You guys have, like, a really good, like, a complimentary mix of vets of people who have done it, of these newcomers, which bring. I know they're not rookies by age, in a sense, but it is still their first year in the wnba. But it brings, like, a freshness that I think as you get older in the league is always a nice compliment to have again. Then there's the chemistry that I think is still building with you at and ka. All right, so, you know, we're almost at the end of the season. In order to make, like, a finals run, what do you think your team needs to do between now and then playing four quarters?
- [86:36]
Satou Sabally
I think that is something that we can be better at just really pursuing. Not perfection, because you can never be perfect, but really pursuing that relentless pursuit of playing 40 minutes and keeping your mind right for 40 minutes, not having those lapses. And I think we've had some tough losses this year where it was almost chemistry, like you not being able to blindly know the other person's move. We didn't have that yet. And, like, we had some, you know, tough loss against Vegas or Minnie. They've been through all these things already together. We haven't. So just also being aware of that and having quick conflict resolution. We can't dwell on things. We don't have the time for it. We don't have the background of, like, year long playing together. So really quick conflict resolution and taking a game for 40 minutes and really staying on that high level.
- [87:39]
Sue Bird
All right, Satyu, what does success look like for you guys this year?
- [87:43]
Satou Sabally
Winning it all. We want to win, but I think we've been so successful already in just really getting together and being here in a gym every single day. Like, we don't take days off, and we just. We practice so hard, we prepare. Amazing. Our coaching staff, everyone here wants to come in and be better, and we are better every single day. So that's also what success looks like. But obviously, like, we want to win. You want to raise that trophy in the end of the year, and then. Then I'll put things into if that was successful or not. At the end of the year. I can't even speak on failure.
- [88:23]
Sue Bird
No. But the truth is, like, a lot of people talk about raising the trophy, but the truth is the answer on how you got there is what you just said. You have to come in every day. You have to get better every day. You have to learn, yada, yada, all of it, every day in order to do that anyway. So your answer definitely works. Satu, thanks so much for coming on. It was really fun.
- [88:42]
Satou Sabally
Thanks for having me. I love your podcast and I think it's great. It's great to hear from you.
- [88:48]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I just thought of one more question. How was it when you went back to Dallas?
- [88:52]
Satou Sabally
Oh, my God, it was cool. It was awesome seeing the staff people, you know, like the people in the back when you walk in, the security guards and just giving them hugs because I spent five years there and they're still my people, you know, having people come to the game. And I was just so happy just to also be there. Had a tough game, but the last game of the season will be in Dallas, so we can better that a little bit. I haven't let that get. I wasn't satisfied with that one.
- [89:28]
Sue Bird
September 11th.
- [89:31]
Satou Sabally
All right, thanks, dude.
- [89:33]
Sue Bird
Okay. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
- [89:35]
Satou Sabally
Appreciate it.
- [89:37]
Sue Bird
All right, that's it for our interview at SA2. Man, I am just blown away by the maturity at every step of her journey. She has had such amazing perspective, seeing just like the full scope of what she needed for herself, her family, really everything along the way. What you're seeing now is just like I said, a really mature player, somebody who knows herself, somebody who has goals and is willing to have some failure, understands, I should say, that failure is a part of getting to the ultimate success. So that was really, really interesting. I wish her the best of luck against Dallas when she returns there again, but also the remaining games in this season. All right, hope you guys enjoyed it. This episode is a co production of Together and Vox Media. Our producers are Tommy Alter, J. Jason Gallagher, Richie Bozick, Harry Krinsky, Jess Clarendon and Melanie Carter. Thanks to Nike for their partnership. Sometimes winning is hard, sometimes it's painful. But Nike knows when you step on the court, it's what you came here to do. From the champions to the underdogs, from the top of their class prospects to the little brothers finally dunking on their older brother in the driveway, we all have the same win. Nike provides the best gear, products and stories to get you from the first quarter to the last. Even when you feel like you have nothing left to give. Visit nike.com for more information and be sure to follow Nike on Instagram, TikTok and other social platforms for more great basketball moments. Tonight's the first date that's been weeks in the making. Hair done, nails done, every square inch of your body exfoliated. Then you see it. A pesky pimple the size of a respectable mountain. The good news, Mighty Patch. Pimple patches can absorb gunk in just six hours. Patch the problem area and shrink the look of whiteheads faster than your makeup skills could anyway. Shop Mighty Patch at all major retailers.