Loading summary
Transcript224 lines
- [00:01]
Sponsor
Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea. When you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need Pure Leaf iced tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a Pure Leaf iced Tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a Pure Leaf.
- [00:33]
Scott Galloway
Hey, it's Scott Galloway. In today's marketing landscape, if you're not evolving, you're getting left behind. In some ways, it's easier than ever to reach your customers, but cutting through the noise has never been harder. So we're going to talk about it on a special Prof. G Office Hour series. We'll be answering questions from C Suite execs and business leaders about how to market efficiently and effectively in today's chaotic world. So tune into propg Office Hours Special series brought to you by Adobe Express. You can find it on the propg feed wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:06]
Sue Bird
Did you understand that I'm now starting and if I do well, this is going to be mine for the rest of the season?
- [01:13]
Natasha Howard
I did.
- [01:21]
Sue Bird
Hey everybody, welcome back to Bird's Eye View. Today's guest has done something that has never been seen in the history of the wnba and I don't know if we're going to see it again. Natasha Howard went to the Finals for four years in a row with three different teams and she wasn't done because you fast forward two more years and she got there five out of six seasons. There is something about Tasha in her game that just allows her to fit in with highly talented teams. It's what makes her special and it's why she's a three time WNBA champion. It doesn't hurt that she's also a two time All Star, two time All Defensive Player, the 2019 Defensive Player of the Year, and the 2018 Most Improved Player. But before we get to that, here's Sue's view. First up, I'm going to talk about the Flow offense. You have heard me reference this when talking to Jewel and Stewie. It's the offense we ran in Seattle, but I got to take it back a little bit and give you a little bit of an origin story. So Jenny Bussek, who became our head coach in 2015 and introduced this offense to us in that year, she had worked with the Dallas Mavericks and With Riccarl prior, nothing official, but she knew Rick for many years and she would go to their training camps. You know, it's back in the days of Dirk Nowitzki. And she would really study, she really studied their offense. And a lot of times in that 2015 and then even in the 2016 training camp, she would show us clips from the Dallas Mavericks because this is how they played. Now, the flow offense, if I had to loosely define it, it has to do with read and react, you've heard me say it has to do with a controlled chaos. A lot of traditional offenses, you know, there's transition where you're able to get out and run, and then there's play calling, right? You're calling sets, you're trying to get a certain. Look, there might be one option, maybe a second or a third, and that's about it. But the flow offense, it's very free in that we're trying to get option one, two or three, but we understand we might not get those and we might be going to option 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. And that's the beauty of it. It was a limitless option type offense. I digress. So Jenny comes to Seattle, teaches us this offense in 2015. We run it in 2016 and 17, and even though she left the Storm, we continued to run it. And that's where myself, Jewel, Stewie, Alicia Clark, add in Natasha Howard, we really started to perfect this offense. Now what's interesting is the other part of this flow offense that makes it different, makes it exceptional, makes it hard to scout, hard to play against, is that you're playing with pace. Now, when I say pace, I actually don't mean the statistical category that you might find in an advanced box sheet. Right. I'm literally talking about how fast you play, how fast you push the ball, how fast you cut, how fast you're able to read, react and make decisions. So it's like a physical speed, but it's also a mental speed that you're playing with. The thing about flow, though, is because you're playing with that pace, it really has to become a lifestyle. You have to live it, you have to practice it every day. You have to do drills that are going to encourage this, that are going to back it up. We used to have this one drill where you know a certain time would go on the clock, let's call it anywhere from 12 to 14 seconds. You had to go full court, everybody had to touch the ball. You also had to get certain actions right. Is it a pick and roll? Is it a back door? Is it a post up? Is it a flare screen? The coach would yell out certain actions and you had to get this all done within 12 to 14 seconds. So it was all about again, making quick decisions and playing fast. The other part of it is you have to be comfortable being uncomfortable because the truth is you are going to come down the floor and you know, you have a player like Brianna Stewart, of course you're trying to get her the ball in certain spots, but teams guard that, teams scout that. So you have to be willing to stay open minded to the fact that anything could happen. And that's where a lot of the confidence comes from, right? We play fast, we wear teams down. By the fourth quarter, you can hear them huffing and puffing. But when you actually, you know, find the weak link in the defense, when you're able to exploit certain things and you have that open mind, it just gives you more and more confidence. So what makes flow offense difficult to run? You really need high IQ players. What flow offense difficult to guard. It's unpredictable and it's exhausting. And like I said, by far my favorite offense to play in. Next up, I'm going to do a little preview of the Commissioner Cup Final that is coming up on Tuesday, July 1st. Just a quick refresh. The winning team gets to split a $500,000 pot amongst its players. The runner up or the losing team, they get 10,000 per player each. I also think there's like some crypto in there, but who knows what the hell that is. All right, so it's Indiana versus Minnesota in the final. And I think what's most interesting about this matchup is that they haven't played each other yet this season. So it's totally fresh. You don't, you don't really know what you're going to see. So I'm going to check out the stats and see if I can maybe pull some things. It's interesting because they're kind of sort of similar in some ways, right? Like offensive rating, Minnesota's third, Indiana's fourth. Defensive rating, there's a little bit of separation, Minnesota's first, Indiana's fifth. But there's a lot of other similarities. And so I'm just going to go based off some stuff where there's a lot of separation, right? So first and foremost, can Indiana, who is 11th in opponents free throw attempts, stop fouling Minnesota because you cannot, you cannot give Minnesota easy points, so you got to keep them off the free throw line. Also can Indiana, who's in the Bottom half of the league in turnovers limit then against a defense that is third enforcing turnovers. So those are just like two quick areas that you can keep your eye on, I think, for Indiana's offense. And of course, we don't know if Caitlin's going to be playing. So this is a huge, huge, huge asterisk. It changes everything. But they've added Arie McDonald and, you know, I got to watch Caitlin play in person against Seattle, and one thing I noticed was it'd be really beneficial to her if she had players around her who could create shots for her. Right. She has to create a lot of her own shots, but she's also creating for her teammates. And there are times where if she could just get some open looks off other people's play, it could be really beneficial to her. And that's where Arie McDonald might have some impact. I think the only issue here would be is you'd have to find ways to figure out, like, how to have them on the court defensively that doesn't give up too many mismatches. But the good news is when Arie was with the team previously, a lineup of her, Natasha Howard, Kelsey Mitchell, Lexi hall and Aaliyah Boston had a Net rating of 53.1. Very small sample size, but just saying. The other thing to note about Indiana is recently their small lineup of Kelsey Mitchell, Sophie Cunningham, Lexi Hull, Caitlin Clark and Aaliyah Boston is at a 41.7. These numbers are just like, really high. They can spread the floor. Aaliyah, Boston, go to work. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see those two lineups. I think for Minnesota on the other side, you know, if Caitlin plays, it's just going to be a matter of how do you want to attack this, right. Do you want to focus on her and put all the focus on her, forcing her teammates to get off? We saw that in Seattle. It didn't work out. Indiana still got the win. Or do you want to just try to limit Caitlin, make it hard, but not give too much up to her teammates? I think anytime you're playing Indiana, that's probably the question. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's what Minnesota, heading into the Commissioners cup, will be thinking about again. If Caitlin doesn't play, this all goes out the window. Next up, I'm going to check back in on Phoenix. Talked about Phoenix in some of my earlier episodes and how. What's so interesting is I think a lot of people view their offense and, you know, the system that Nate Tibbets has put in and kind of, you know, falling in love with that, which is very true. Their offense is doing really well, but it's still their defense that continues to be a driving force. They are top three in defensive rating. They're first in creating turnovers. They're top three in points off turnovers. They're second in opponents points in the paint. And they have a killer lineup of at Kathryn West Belt, Satu, Akon, Makani. And then you plug in either Sammy or Kah, and it's elite. And that is actually the perfect segue to those two players. Kah, Kalia, Copper, just getting back into the swing of things. So I imagine their defense will get even better and their offense will get even better. But in the meantime, Sammy has had incredible impact. That is Sammy Wickham, for those that don't know. She's only shooting 32.5% from three on like five and a half attempts this year. But the last four games she's shooting 48.1% on nine attempts. She's leading them in scoring at 17 points per game and is actually the best rebounding guard at 3.7 per game. Again, last seven games, she's shooting 42% in total on 6.3 attempts. So just want to give some quick love to Sammy. You know what it is. All right, last but not least, before we get to this interview, I just want to talk a little bit about the physicality of the league. There's so much conversation about it. Is it too physical? Is it not all these things? And I think there's been this, like, narrative that's gone around that we, and I'm going to include myself here, we as WNBA players talk about the physicality in our league with, like a badge of honor. Right? And I don't think that's the case at all. I personally don't feel that way. But when challenged about the physicality of the league and the historical physicality of the league, yes, we say, yes, this is a physical league. Like, yeah, it's a grown woman's league. Like, yeah, you got to be ready for it. And the only reason why I want to bring that up is because while it's true that we have defended the physicality, it's not true that it's because we want it to be that way or like it that way. I think for a really long time it's something we've talked about. But when the refs do ref the game and allow physicality, we're kind of just playing in it. And of course, what refs allow you're going to take and that's really what you're seeing in our game. I would argue that most players don't want it to be this physical. I was the first one with my hand up when I was playing. Do you think I wanted it to be physical then? You've never seen me play. No, I did not want it to be physical. And in fact, one of my, one of my wishes that never came true. I said this to multiple owners. I said this in competition meetings. I never understood why in a 40 minute basketball game we got six personal fouls. And a lot of times I was met with, well, we don't want our star players fouling out. And just to give a little bit of context, the six fouls is definitely like a, not a hangover. But we got it from the NBA game.
- [12:16]
Natasha Howard
Right.
- [12:16]
Sue Bird
But they play 48 minutes, so it makes sense. We play with five fouls overseas. We play with five fouls in college. We play with five fouls in national team play with USA basketball. So this isn't five fouls in 40 minutes. This isn't something new. And like I said, I was always met with, well, we don't want our star players fouling out. But by my math, by giving every player on a roster that one extra personal foul, you're allowing your best player to get fouled technically 11 more times a game than needed. That's just my take. Three final things before we get to the interview. First, Bird's Eye View is doing its first live show in Indiana July 18th. Second, we are taking next week off. Next Friday is the 4th, so we won't be releasing an episode. Our next episode will come out July 11th. And finally, if you're a fan of the show, fill out our audience survey@voxmedia.com survey to help make the show even better. My interview with Natasha Howard up next. Natash, what's up, man?
- [13:19]
Natasha Howard
Man, much. What's up with you?
- [13:20]
Sue Bird
I'm good. Did you watch game seven last night? What do you think? I mean, it's obviously sad they lost.
- [13:26]
Natasha Howard
But yeah, they started off what, 10 and 15 and you know, they had injuries but nobody expect them to be in the NBA finals.
- [13:34]
Sue Bird
Yeah. So when I watch them, what I always find most interesting is Jenny Busek is an assistant coach. She was with the Storm for like, ever. But she was the head coach for a while and you know, by the time you got there, she was no longer there. But her offense had kind of carried over and stayed and we ended up running like A lot of her sets. Um, I've now had Jewel and Stewie both on the show. We talked about running flow, playing in our flow. Um, so anytime I watch the Pacers, that jumps out. Also, um, did you like playing in that flow style offense, for those that don't know, it's just like, you literally just play. It's like controlled chaos.
- [14:14]
Natasha Howard
Absolutely. I did, um, just reading, react off your teammates and. And do what you do best and stuff. For me, I was good at cutting and, you know, offensive rebounds and so put them back in there and, you know, also saying good screens for you for you guys to get open shots.
- [14:28]
Sue Bird
Yeah, you did do that, but, yeah. So the Pacers in the finals, obviously, so sad with Tyrese getting hurt, but they had a great run. If anyone knows something about the Finals, it's you. I mean, as I was. I mean, obviously I know all about your career, played with you, but as I was looking back at some of the research, you're like. You're like Ms. Finals Expert. Do you know this about yourself? You went to four finals in a row with three different teams. Not only were you in the finals four years in a row, three different teams, you went five times out of six seasons. So take out your rookie year from your second year on. Five times in six seasons. Did. Did you even know that?
- [15:07]
Natasha Howard
No, I didn't know that. A lot of people were telling me that. I'm like, really?
- [15:10]
Sue Bird
I'm like, wow, you were like Miss Good Luck Charm there for a minute. Okay, so coming out of Florida State, how prepared for the WNBA did you feel?
- [15:18]
Natasha Howard
I felt very prepared because we had Brooke Wyckoff as my assistant coach, and, you know, she played in wnba. She played for Chicago, so she was telling me the ins and out about wnba, so we were doing a lot of things that was helping me get prepared for a training camp. And she was telling me, like, the lead is different. It's people faster, stronger, taller. So you, like, you need to start doing a lot of extra lifting and stuff. Because I only weigh 150 when I was.
- [15:47]
Sue Bird
So I know you were so. You were this big, so.
- [15:50]
Natasha Howard
But I'm like, all right. So I started doing, like, a lot of conditioning and a lot of lifting and also eating more, because me eating it didn't go nowhere, so I just kept stuffing my face to make sure I gained at least a couple more pounds before I got into the league, so. But I couldn't even gain no type of weight.
- [16:07]
Sue Bird
Okay, I just want to rewind for a second. You weighed 150.
- [16:10]
Natasha Howard
150.
- [16:11]
Sue Bird
Ask me how much I weighed coming out of college. 150. I dropped a couple lbs. It was all muscle. I had to shed some of that. But you weighed 150. That's literally. I fluctuated between 145 and 150 my whole career.
- [16:24]
Natasha Howard
Yeah, me, I just stayed at 150 until I got into the league. That's when I actually started gaining weight.
- [16:29]
Sue Bird
So, wait, so you get drafted 2014, number five overall. You go to Indiana, like, being 150, what was the impact of that? Did you feel it right away in training camp?
- [16:42]
Natasha Howard
I did. After practice, I did, but after that, I was still getting into the weight room. I'm like, no, I'm not about to be banged up and sore and stuff like that. And like. And even the. The coach would tell me I need to put on some more weight. And that was my main focus my rookie year. Just putting on weight and also just being prepared if I have to go into a game and play against Sevier fouls, you know, Brunson, them like that. So I have to make sure I had a little bit muscles on me. So.
- [17:09]
Sue Bird
But I feel like part of your. Your build also helps you. Right? Like, you're agile, you're quick. So, like, were you able to use that? Could you. Could you find ways to use that in the early goings?
- [17:20]
Natasha Howard
Absolutely, I did. I used my quickness, my versatile. The way how I play. And also, you know, guarding bigger post players than me, I use my quickness and just pretty much dancing and dancing around them and making sure they don't feel me. So that was like my. My specialty right there.
- [17:37]
Sue Bird
Yeah. No, I'm laughing because I have like, actual memories of you playing BG like that. Just literally, like on this, I feel like basketball talk. What do they teach you when you're a kid? It's like you gotta like guard the tree or like move around the tree, like, BG being the tree. And like, there was you. You were on this side, the left side, the right side of the tree. You're all over that tree. I have legit memories of that. You know, your first couple games, you actually came out, like, hit the ground running. You had like 20 something in your first game. Followed that up with like 16 or so. You finished the season averaging 7 and 3. You even started 15 games that year. So on paper, it seems like you adjusted quickly. We've talked a little bit about what training camp was like, but in that first year, do you feel you found your footing as you went?
- [18:21]
Natasha Howard
I. I did. It took me a. Took me, you know, a couple weeks to get my foot stabled in. In this lead. But overall, like, just having Tamika being there, being that vet for me, and having me under her wing and just guiding me through the season, like, I probably wouldn't be able to, you know, survive in this league without her and her guiding me.
- [18:43]
Sue Bird
Okay, what do you, like? What did you learn from her? What was she helping you with?
- [18:46]
Natasha Howard
She was always telling me, just be patient. Patience is the key. Because, you know, I started, you know, 15, played 15 games, and afterwards, you know, as a rookie, you know, getting close to playoff time, you know, that's when yo Minnow started shrinking. So she was just telling me to stay patient. Your time gonna come. And ever since then, like, that just stuck with me through my whole career. And look what happened. I'm starting now. I'm, you know, a whole bunch of stuff that's been happening to me.
- [19:08]
Sue Bird
We talked about some of the things that you were doing well in that rookie year. What do you think was the hardest part? Just on the basketball floor, I feel.
- [19:14]
Natasha Howard
Like defense, like, learning, like, the terms of Ms.
- [19:17]
Sue Bird
Defensive Player of the Year. It was defense.
- [19:19]
Natasha Howard
Yeah, it was. It was. It was defense.
- [19:21]
Sue Bird
Oh, like, learning, like, learning the terms.
- [19:23]
Natasha Howard
And stuff like that. Because it's different from college then.
- [19:26]
Sue Bird
Oh, yeah.
- [19:27]
Natasha Howard
So it was just. Everything was just so quick. So I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, my head was just spinning on the floor, so I'm just, like, just saying anything, and then my teammates just react. So I was just saying anything out there so I won't get in trouble and they won't hell at me.
- [19:40]
Sue Bird
Is that a hack? Just talk a lot and the coaches won't yell at you.
- [19:44]
Natasha Howard
Just talk a lot.
- [19:44]
Sue Bird
Honestly, it does work. I'm not even gonna lie. That's really interesting, though. That defense was something that there was, like, a little bit, I don't know, like an evolution. You had to grow into that because, like, you said college, I don't think they do as much as much like scouting and scheme. Obviously they scout, but the schemes get really intricate. When you get into the wnba. What do you think was one of it? Was it like pick and roll defense or was it having to guard those post players?
- [20:12]
Natasha Howard
I pretty much say everything, like, the pick and rolls, the ice, and like, the. The post. But, like, I feel like the post was a lot because you had great post players in the lead at the time when I was. When I came in. So it's like you had A handful. Like in the post you had a handful. I had a handful every night. Doesn't matter. Yeah, so.
- [20:32]
Sue Bird
So when you get to Indiana, not only are you teaming up with Tamika Catchings, but you're being coached by Lyn, who is now still in the front office for the Indiana Fever. And Stephanie White was an assistant who obviously is now the head coach. So what was like your first impressions of them as coaches?
- [20:49]
Natasha Howard
Lynn? I already knew that she was going to be tough like, because I heard her from.
- [20:53]
Sue Bird
Wait, do you know she was my coach my rookie year? Yeah, she drafted me. That was my coach my first year too.
- [20:59]
Natasha Howard
Oh, wow. In Seattle.
- [21:00]
Sue Bird
In Seattle.
- [21:00]
Natasha Howard
Wow. I didn't, I didn't see no, no pushing, no videos of her either.
- [21:03]
Sue Bird
I was 17.
- [21:05]
Natasha Howard
But yeah, like it was just what Lynn done. Like she was always, always on us. Like because she knew what we were capable of doing as players. So she was especially with me. Like she didn't give me no, no grace or nothing. She was just on me. Howard, what are you doing? I'm like, okay, okay, you gotta get.
- [21:21]
Sue Bird
The accent in that too.
- [21:22]
Natasha Howard
But like she was just on me because she knew that the player that I can become in the lead. So she was just on me non stop. I ain't getting no breaks, no nothing. So she would just owe me. I'm like, and like now I thank her because I'm a three time champ, you know, so on and so on.
- [21:39]
Sue Bird
So that's funny. What I remember from Lynn is very similar. Just like really had a standard of how she wanted individuals to play the team to play how hard. Our practices were hard. There was fights all the time in practice. Just because people were going at each other like a box outro, you know how those are going to go. And the other thing I remember about Lin was, you know, someone make a nice move but miss it and she's like, that's a million dollar move in a 10 cent finish.
- [22:04]
Natasha Howard
Yeah.
- [22:04]
Sue Bird
You know, she probably still says it. Okay, so you finish your second year in Indiana, that off season comes, you get traded for the first time in your career. You end up getting traded four times in your career, this is the first time, and you're traded to the Minnesota Links. Had you had, did you have any idea that that was coming?
- [22:24]
Natasha Howard
Yeah, I did.
- [22:25]
Sue Bird
You had an idea?
- [22:26]
Natasha Howard
Yeah.
- [22:26]
Sue Bird
Yeah. It was like your agent telling you.
- [22:27]
Natasha Howard
Yeah, my agent was telling me though. But I know who I get traded to. Minnesota.
- [22:30]
Sue Bird
Yeah. Were you, were you like, I'm always curious about this. Like, were you excited? Did you feel hurt? Were you happy? Were you happy that it was Minnesota? Like, what was the feeling the minute you get the call, like, it's done.
- [22:45]
Natasha Howard
You know, it was only my second year in elite. I'm like, traded. I was like, you know, I was kind of. I'm like, my Dana. I really wanted to play forever in Indiana, though. But, like, you know, it's business, but I feel like it was a better opportunity for me, and I feel like God was leading me to a different path in my career, so. And I took it, and I was just like, wow, I'm playing with some other great players, too. I'm like, yeah, I want Minnesota, though. Like, Meyer Moore. I played against my Warren County. She crossed me up. So I'm like, wow, I'm playing with her. I'm like, I'm playing with Lindsey Whelan. I'm playing with Sylvia Father. Playing with a lot of great players that I could actually get. Get more experience from and pick their brains and they can help me out with some more moves in my. Moves in my back for me and stuff. So I was like, wow, I'm playing with some great. Some great vets. For real. I'm like, wow. Yeah.
- [23:41]
Sue Bird
No, you're surrounded. You are surrounded by greatness. I mean, you mentioned Sylvia Faust. Then you've got Rebecca Brunson, J. Mac.
- [23:49]
Natasha Howard
Yeah.
- [23:49]
Sue Bird
Janelle McCarvel's on that team. So you're surrounded by greatness, by experience, by those that have won championships. So what do you think you learned, like, from a post player standpoint, from.
- [24:00]
Natasha Howard
Those guys with Brunson, she always tell me, like, get every rebound that you possibly can and just play defense, like, make people uncomfortable. Getting there.
- [24:10]
Sue Bird
Mm. You know what?
- [24:11]
Natasha Howard
Yeah, you know what? But, like. Like, that's the thing that actually stuck with me, like, because she just told me, like, the only way you're seeing this lead if you play defensive rebound.
- [24:20]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [24:21]
Natasha Howard
And I'm like. I'm like, all right, well, I'm about to rebound my butt off, and ain't nobody about to get nothing from me, so. But yeah, with her just her just being. Being there, being that. That vet for me, just because she was really good on defense. And, like, that's one thing I like about Bernstein, that she was just. And people stuff like, nah, you ain't about to get this from me. And, like, the way she was just, like, bullying them out there and making them uncomfortable, I'm like, wow, like, she used to do that to me, and practically, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna do them to Them out there on the court, too, as well.
- [24:49]
Sue Bird
So that's so dope. But then you also get to play with. You already said it, right. You're playing with Maya, you're playing with Mon, you're playing with Lindsey. My opinion, it's that backcourt. And then maybe the Vegas backcourt of Plum, Chelsea, Jackie Young. Like, these are two of the best, most successful backcourts of all time. So now you're playing with these gu. What was that?
- [25:09]
Natasha Howard
Like, it's kind of hard to explain. Cause, like, Lindsey, she was just. She was a savage out there. Like, she didn't take nothing from nobody, like, at all. And, like, you get in her way, she see red. And with Simone, like, she's so smooth. Her crossover so smooth. You think she about to make a move and she pulling up on your face. Like, in Maya, like, it's just. She could do everything. So it's, like, kind of hard to play. Play Minnesota. Like, you gotta play them straight up. Cause if you try to do anything, somebody's opener, you know, whatever. So it was just kind of hard to play against a team, to have every single weapon.
- [25:46]
Sue Bird
Yeah. Literally including yourself.
- [25:47]
Natasha Howard
Yeah.
- [25:48]
Sue Bird
You were a key contributor in that. What was it like playing for Cheryl Reeve? Because we just talked about Lynn demanding greatness. I mean, I actually have only played for Cheryl with USA Basketball, and she was always an assistant. She had to do head coach, like, take on some head coaching duties when dawn couldn't make it because of her college schedule. But I've more so just been an outsider looking in, and it just seems like one mistake, and she's gonna let you know. And there is, like, very much a demanding style of coaching there. So I'm curious what that was like.
- [26:23]
Natasha Howard
Absolutely. You make one mistake, and she's on you.
- [26:26]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [26:26]
Natasha Howard
And she gonna make sure that you're not gonna make that mistake again. And that's one thing that she was just like. Just not me. But, like, everybody on the team, she hold everybody accountable. If you make a mistake, she's gonna let you know. And, like, the player's gonna let you know as well, too. But what Cheryl, she don't play. She do not play. If you don't, you're not getting the job done. She's going to pull you out the game and let you sit there and let you think about what you've done wrong. And then. And then she gonna be like, are you ready to go back in? And you're like, yeah. So she gonna let you. She gonna let you sit down, you're.
- [26:59]
Sue Bird
Gonna get another chance.
- [27:00]
Natasha Howard
Think and think about it. But yeah, she gonna give you another chance though, no. Yeah.
- [27:03]
Sue Bird
Like I said, outside looking in. What I always respected about the Minnesota Lynx was the bar they all held each other to, but also the fact that Cheryl could do that to great players. Because let's be honest, not a lot of coaches have that about him where they can hold it. But it sounds like it became almost contagious with all of you. You all had standards that were holding each other to so it's nice to know that from the outside looking in, it was accurate.
- [27:30]
Sponsor
Support for this show comes from pure leaf iced tea. You know that point in the afternoon when you just hit a wall. You don't have time for self care rituals or getting some fresh air. So maybe you grab a beverage to bring you back but somehow it doesn't do the trick or it leaves you feeling even worse. What you need is a quality break. A tea break. And you can do that with pure leaf iced tea. Real brewed tea made in a variety of bold and refreshing flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. With a pure leaf iced tea in hand, you'll be left feeling refreshed and revitalized with a new motivation to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a pure leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a pure leaf.
- [28:19]
Scott Galloway
Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte, paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today.
- [28:45]
Trinet
Behind every picture there is a story to be explored and a path to be discovered. And Trinet has been there with purpose driven HR solutions to empower the journey no matter what path you're on. Where biomedical innovations advance the early diagnosis and prevention of disease to positively impact human life and deliver the next generation of healthcare. Where good is a state of mind and a recipe for success. To bring delight and joy to everyone and make life a little sweeter. Where access to world class radiological surgery is universally available to treat more patients more precisely. Pioneering a new frontier of medicine from physical health to mental well being. Where a powerful sense of mission and simple ingredients reimagine the food system from the ground up to Foster the well being of people, animals and our planet. Every journey begins with a purpose and the path to incredible starts here with Trinet by your side with HR Solutions to become a catalyst for your future success. Learn how Trinet can empower your purpose driven business@trinet.com Vox that's T-R-I-N-E-T.com Vox to get started. Trinet, your path, our purpose.
- [30:04]
Sue Bird
But like I said, you were a key contributor off the bench and you get to the finals again. So now it's second year in a row you're back in the finals. So what I'm curious about is what did you. How did the 2015 Finals experience help you approach what is now the 2016 Finals experience? Minnesota vs. LA. The start of like an epic rivalry.
- [30:31]
Natasha Howard
I always come back in my head, just be patient. I just kept coming back in my head, be patient. And then when my number, like I said, when my number was called, I knew I had to guard Candace Parker.
- [30:42]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [30:43]
Natasha Howard
And like with her and her skill level, I was like, Dan, I gotta guard Kenneth Parker. Like she got good ball handling skill. But my thing is like, okay, she have it though, but she can't take pressure. So when Brunson was always telling me in practice, like get into people, that's what I did with Ken. I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do what I need to do. I don't care if I don't score on the offensive end. I'm gonna play some good defense and not let Candace Parker score on me. And that's what I'd done in 2015. 2015, 2016.
- [31:15]
Sue Bird
Yeah, 2016. I can't give it straight either.
- [31:18]
Natasha Howard
So 2016, like I made sure that I made it uncomfortable for Candace like that in that, in that series and making sure that she threw it to somebody that we know that's not gonna score the ball. So. And that was my main thing when I went out there. Just making sure that I had done my part to help us win that, you know, help us win.
- [31:39]
Sue Bird
You didn't win that series.
- [31:40]
Natasha Howard
Well, we didn't win the series though. But like just help us win at least one of the games that possession.
- [31:43]
Sue Bird
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. So you bring it up. So sadly you lose again in a five game series. So two finals, no ring. But then 2017 comes around, you finally get that ring. So you play LA again, like I said, one of the more epic playoff rivalries in the WNBA and WNBA history and you finally get the ring. So how did it feel to get over the hump?
- [32:10]
Natasha Howard
It felt good to get over that hump because at the end of the day, like, we had a chip on our shoulder from 2016 finals, and, like, we carried out over into the off season as well, until. Until training camp, and, like, everybody was hungry. Everybody was determined to actually work extremely hard to get back to that point. And we got back to that point, and we shared la. No mercy.
- [32:30]
Sue Bird
Okay, so you've got your ring, but in that off season, and now for the second time in what is, like a short career at this point, right, you're only in your fourth year, you get traded again, this time to Seattle. So real quick, what do you remember about that trade experience?
- [32:46]
Natasha Howard
I was happy, okay? I was happy to be somewhere different and also playing with you because everybody, like, Sue Bird is a good point guard. She this and that, this and that. I'm like, well, I get to play.
- [32:59]
Sue Bird
With her, so I'll let you know.
- [33:00]
Natasha Howard
Actually, I'll let you guys know. But, yeah, I was happy, happy to actually come to Seattle, play with Stewie, play with you, play with Jewel. You know, it was just. It was a young, young team still, too, so. But I was just really happy to have a. A fresh start and hopefully do what I need to do and try to get a starting spot, too, as well. So that was like, my main thing, too, is just, oh, we're going to.
- [33:26]
Sue Bird
Get into that, because you didn't start the first couple of games.
- [33:29]
Natasha Howard
I didn't?
- [33:29]
Sue Bird
Yeah, you came into. I think you said it well, at that point, we were outside of myself, like, still a really young team, you know, built around Jewel and Stewie. We have a new coach and Dan Hughes coming in, so it is, like, very fresh for all of us. And you were coming into that with, I think, a lot of opportunity ahead of you. But it's funny because my. Okay, so you get traded. And so here's my perspective of you at the time. A couple things. One, obviously, playing against you in Indiana, in Minnesota, I just always. I was like, man, there's something about her. She's just always in the right place at the right time. It was like, you know, in Minnesota, let's say you averaged, you know, somewhere between 10, 15 minutes, you know, so it wasn't like you're playing a ton of minutes when, you know you're having to go against, you know, four or five Olympians, and then they come off the court and Natasha Howard comes in, and it's like, man, and now she's getting all the rebounds, like, you could never take a breath because you were always coming in the game and you were always getting. I'm telling you, every loose ball, every rebound just felt like you were always in the right place at the right time. But then in 2016, we take a break for the Olympics and, you know, 2016, Rio Olympics, I would argue this is one of, if not the, one of the best Olympic teams in our history. We are stacked, but not only that, majority of the team's in their prime, so you have, like, some of the best ever. Maya, Diana, I mean, go, nonetheless. And they're in their prime. We play against. I don't even know what they called you guys. The USA WNBA select team. It's like an exhibition game. Yep, select team. It's an exhibition game. So you guys are helping us out. You're getting us ready to go to Rio. We're in la. We're about to leave for the Olympics after this. And I'm like, who the fuck is this? You had 24 points, 8 from 13. But, like, a lot of threes. Do you know how I couldn't find the bot? Like, the actual box score? It had to have been, like, four threes.
- [35:31]
Natasha Howard
I don't know how many threes I made.
- [35:32]
Sue Bird
You had a lot of threes. I was like, so what I knew about you from playing against you in Minnesota was you're a glue player. You still are. You're a glue player. You take teams that are great, and you, like, glue them together with. With all the, like, ways that you fit in. But now I'm like, oh, my God. She has this whole other layer to her game that we just haven't seen. So as I was saying, this is. This is my take on you, right? I've seen you at the Minnesota Links. Now I'm seeing this whole other person who we played against in this exhibition game. Then you get traded to Seattle. And I'm like, okay, here's a player that is a magnet for the ball. And by the way, I'm curious, what is that by magnet? It's like, I'm not joking. You see, the ball seems to find you. It's like, yes, you go get it. And sometimes, I swear, the ball finds you. I remember we played Phoenix, Game 1 of the 2018 season, and at some point during the game, you'd come in the game, you got, like, a bunch of, like, rebounds, loose balls. There's a foul. So we're chilling, like, someone shooting free throws. I'm standing next to Dee, and she's like, like, man, is that. Is she like that all the time? And I'm like, yes. It's like there's a magnet in her hands. Is that a skill? Have you just always been that way?
- [36:48]
Natasha Howard
I won't say I was always been that way. Like, I just feel like which way the person is shooting the ball and how it's going to ricochet off the rim. So I used to be.
- [36:58]
Sue Bird
Oh, you're watching that.
- [36:59]
Natasha Howard
I. I watch that and see, because the person shooting the ball in the corner, mainly the ball is going to probably ricochet into the middle. And if the person shooting the ball to the left side is going to go probably, like, far to the. To the other side. So that's just how I.
- [37:13]
Sue Bird
So you're, like, reading these rebounds?
- [37:14]
Natasha Howard
Yeah, I just read them, man.
- [37:17]
Sue Bird
I swear it, like, falls in your lap. It's crazy. The other thing that really stuck out right away was because as I mentioned or as we talked about, we did play this, like, flow offense. We were really, like, transition first team. So right away, you at, like, the four or five. You had to play the five a lot.
- [37:34]
Natasha Howard
Yeah, damn.
- [37:35]
Sue Bird
You had to play the five a lot. I mean, shout out to you. You had to guard all the fives because Stewie's ass didn't want to do it.
- [37:41]
Natasha Howard
She didn't want to do it.
- [37:42]
Sue Bird
She didn't want to do it. So we had to save Stewie. But that means you had to guard the five. So thank you for that. But, yeah, with your speed and your quickness at your position. For me, as a point guard, it was like a match made in heaven. The way you could run the floor, keep up with me, the way you could drag, and then the way on your rolls, it was like you could pop, hit the three, you could roll, finish layups, and you had, like, a versatility and an agility about you that allowed you to be creative. Right? Like, when you did roll, if a defender came over, you had moves, you had a little back to the basket, shimmy shake. But, yeah, but you didn't start. Early in the season, you didn't start, and then. Do you remember what happened?
- [38:22]
Natasha Howard
I think Langhorne got.
- [38:23]
Sue Bird
Yeah, she broke her rib. Shout out, Crystal Langhorne, right? That poor baby broke her rib. She was. It was not good. She had to wear, like, a protective, like, hard shell thing. Yeah, the pad. But it opened up the opportunity for you, for you. Did you realize what. What was there? Like, did you understand that I'm now starting, and if I do well, this is going to be mine? For the rest of the season, I did. How did you approach that?
- [38:52]
Natasha Howard
I approached it as one player. Done. It's time for you to step up. And that's what I did. I took full advantage of it and I took it and I ran with it and never looked back.
- [39:07]
Sue Bird
No, you didn't. And in a lot of ways, our offense got unlocked because of what you brought to the table. And the starting five that we had, myself, you, Stewie, Jewel and A.C. we're now, I would say, one of the fastest pace offenses the WNBA has seen.
- [39:24]
Natasha Howard
Yeah.
- [39:25]
Sue Bird
And so all of a sudden we're like, oh. Because not a lot of people picked us to do well that year. I don't know, I'd have to go in the archives, but I think we got picked, like, to finish like sixth or seventh. We ended up finishing first, but, like, obviously we win. But not a lot of people saw it. And then it wasn't until you came in there where it was like, oh, this is what it can be. And then putting Lang on the bench, because it's no shade to Lang, that actually increased her output as well. So now we're clicking all over the place. And what I've always found fascinating about you was you weren't really the type of player that you had to run a lot of plays for. Like, you got yours. You just found ways to, like, fit in. And I'm just, you know, we've talked a little bit about your rebounding and what you're thinking about. We're going to get into defense a little bit later. When you're on offense, like, what are you thinking about? How are you approaching the game offensively?
- [40:19]
Natasha Howard
What I'm thinking about is it's playing free, but at the same time still reading react what my teammates are doing and trying to get them open as well with my screening and pretty much just saying good screens and because if I said a good screen, they're going to be open or I'm going to be open or.
- [40:40]
Sue Bird
Why do you think you always fit in so well with championship level teams? Indiana, Minnesota, Seattle had a little rough go with New York and Dallas, but now Indiana. I know you guys are trying to win a championship. What is it about you in your game?
- [40:58]
Natasha Howard
I don't really need plays running for me. That's the thing that makes it easy for the team that I play with and I do the dirty work. So that makes. Makes other teams successful. Yeah, I think. Yeah.
- [41:13]
Sue Bird
No, I agree. I think you have an elite skill getting in where you fit in and with other great Players, that's all they need to bring out the best in them. And then because you're elite at it, it brings out the best in you. It's really a unique skill. 2018 ended up being like a pivotal year for you. You average double figures for the first time. You're all defensive, first team, second in the league in blocks. Most improved player. Should have been an all star. I still demand, like a recount on that. Game three of the WNBA Finals, which is now, if we're all doing the math, your fourth finals in a row. So four Finals, three different teams. Crazy. But in game three, which ended up being like the closeout game of a five game series, you drop 29 and 14. And I actually, when Stewie was on the show. Yeah. In D.C. the night of the goggles, you dropped 29 and 14. And I actually talked to Stewie about this. I knew from like the first possession or whatever possession you hit your first three, I was like, oh, it's on. I was like, especially you and Stewie, you were both hitting. Yeah, I was like, oh, it's on. So, yeah, so you helped take the Storm to a championship. You're now a two time champion. We never get to run it back in 2019. Stewie and I get hurt. We're not playing. But you continue this, like, evolution, you continue to flourish. And now 2019 is another big year for you, and you're really the focal point of the Storm. This year you take it to another level. You've got career highs in points and rebounds that year. You're WNBA, all first team. You're the 2019 Defensive Player of the year. And it's such a wonderful part of your story because you showed signs of all this, but now you're like, solidifying it. Now everybody's seeing it. And I want to know how you.
- [43:08]
Natasha Howard
Were feeling in that year 2019 season. I was like, dang. Subaru down, Stewie down.
- [43:16]
Sue Bird
I'm like, it's go time.
- [43:18]
Natasha Howard
It's go time. It is, it is. But I also had, you know, AC on the court on the side with me. Jewel on the side with me, though. But I feel like I had bigger shoes to fill because of Stewie, because we've missing points from her and also missing points from you, though. But I'm like, dang, like, I guess it's time for me to show whatever I'm capable of doing now. And. And that's what I. And that's what I did. And I did everything that I. That I had to do for our team. To at least have a good season. I feel like we had a good season even though great season, you got the result, but we made the playoff. But I didn't like that one and done thing. I didn't, I didn't like that at all.
- [43:56]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I'm glad they got rid of it too.
- [43:57]
Natasha Howard
But yeah, I, I had, I feel like I had to. I had a lot to prove and show. Show everybody what I'm capable of doing.
- [44:06]
Sue Bird
So I want to stick with like the defensive side of it. So your defensive player of the year that year we talked about early in your career how you had to learn a lot. Right. About the schemes icing like you know all the lingo. So now a couple years later, your defensive player of the year for you. What makes you the defender you are?
- [44:25]
Natasha Howard
I just don't take it lightly on, on my opponents. I don't. I don't know. Defense just, just fuse me. It drives me like it makes me like I like, I don't know. Like I feel like I just see red when I'm on defense. Like I just see red. Like you is not about to get nothing over here. So. And like defense been my thing in college too. So like I'm like, let me just do what I do best and let me just take it to another level that year and. And that's what I. And that's what I did. I feel like I had to take another level to, to establish, to let people know, like, you can't bully me on defense. Like I'm not that type of player. So you got the wrong one.
- [45:04]
Sue Bird
Yeah. The other thing you do for teams like from a. So it's like more of an individual, like from a team standpoint, you allow teams to be really creative in the schemes because again, you're just at your position. You move so well. So I know a lot of time, our time together in Seattle, what we were doing, we were all the place trapping. We were able to switch a lot. But not only just the switching, because let's say it's me and stewing a pick and roll and we switch and now I'm on the big. You bumping me out immediately, like you're all over the place. So you really allow teams to do a lot of. From a scheme standpoint. And when you think about just like actually your overall career even beyond Seattle. Right. How do you think that's changed in the wnba? Has it gotten more intricate?
- [45:49]
Natasha Howard
I'll say. Yeah. Like, you know, it's. You got to pick your poison like now because there's a lot of, a lot of young players coming in. That's quicker. So me like now I gotta just like, I'm still quick though, but I still have to pick my poison when it comes to like certain players on who I'm guarding because they might have a little step on me since I'm getting older, but that still don't matter. But still like, I gotta make sure that, okay, this, this player right here is, it's quick. If you get up on them, they quick. So me, I just use my length disrupt of what they want to do and stuff like that. So me, I just, I just, I just, just read like, read the player and also like this player right here is quick or whatever. So this is what I need to do right here and, and I just read on how I feel and like with this and the personnel as well.
- [46:34]
Sue Bird
Right?
- [46:34]
Natasha Howard
Yeah. Yeah.
- [46:34]
Sue Bird
It sounds like you have to like not just play defense physically to play it mentally too.
- [46:39]
Natasha Howard
Yeah.
- [46:40]
Sue Bird
Yeah, that's hard.
- [46:41]
Trinet
This week on Net worth and chill, I'm joined by Bobby Burke, the interior design mogul and Queer Eye star who transformed his passion for home design into a multimillion dollar empire. From starting with nothing and sleeping on friends couches to building his own furniture line, opening multiple retail stores and landing his breakthrough TV role. Bobby shares how he turned personal struggles into entrepreneurial gold.
- [47:04]
Sue Bird
Stay within your budget. You know, if you have to pivot because prices have went up for tariffs, if you don't have the money to increase your budget, don't listen wherever you.
- [47:13]
Trinet
Get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com.
- [47:16]
Sue Bird
YourRich BFF so in Seattle, we win again in 2020. We finished the bubble season. That off season comes and for the third time in your career, you're traded Seattle Cord. You and I know you wanted to go to New York, but what was that off season and that trade experience like?
- [47:35]
Natasha Howard
I feel like, I feel like it was just time for me to spread my wings, have my own identity. So that's the reason why I chose to go to New York. Just to spread my wings and have my own identity.
- [47:48]
Sue Bird
Yeah. You also got paid. Got paid a lot.
- [47:51]
Natasha Howard
Yeah, that's.
- [47:52]
Sue Bird
I can't fault you for that. What was it about the New York liberty that you thought you would fit? Like you thought it'd be a good fit.
- [48:00]
Natasha Howard
The only person they had on the team was Sabrina, so they were still adding more pieces. But I just feel like my defense, I'm always gonna keep harping on my defense because New York wasn't really that good when it comes to defense and stuff. So I feel like I brought. I could bring that into the organization to help them out. And me also used running the floor and just do the things that I'm good at, so. But yeah, and also help Sabrina. She needed the help out there, so I went out there to help her out as well and to actually, like, help her help her game grow as well as a point guard.
- [48:36]
Sue Bird
Yeah. So what was it like playing with Sabrina? And then even now when you watch her, like, what growth have you seen in her?
- [48:44]
Natasha Howard
Just her just learning the game more because she set out her rookie year, she got injured her rookie year, so just her just learning the game. And you could. And I could tell by. By the things that she was doing after practice and stuff, just getting that extra work in and just reading the pocket and stuff like that, because no shade Sabrina, but she didn't really know how to read the pockets and stuff like that. But that when the season went on, that's when she started getting good at it. Because me and her pick and roll was really good. I don't know the percentage was, but yes, me and her pick and roll was, yes, through the roof.
- [49:18]
Sue Bird
So, yeah, the only bummer about your first year was that you sprained your mcl, like, early in the season, so that, you know, you go from all these championship teams, like I've said a thousand times, Finals back to back to back to back, but now you're going to a team that you're helping build. And I think that injury really, really set you back and set the franchise back. But did you have any. When we think about the New York Liberty now and the culture that they've built, right. The fan base that they've built, did you see any of that? Like, was that coming to life when you were there?
- [49:54]
Natasha Howard
It was.
- [49:55]
Sue Bird
It was.
- [49:55]
Natasha Howard
It like. Like, it was slow. It was. It was slowly coming. Like, we were struggling, like the first year when I got there, though. But, like, it was like. But you can tell, like, the fans was your dedicated. They came no matter if we were losing or, you know, winning. So like that right there, I got like. I was like. I seen it coming day by day, even though I was sitting on the sideline guy, like, I seen it coming.
- [50:15]
Sue Bird
Yeah, that's dope. Because something that drives me nuts real quick sidebar. In 2021, Covid was, like, still happening. So I don't know if you remember this, but, like, I would say for the first three, four months of the season and then in some cities, almost the whole season you could only have like 10 to 20% capacity in the buildings. It drives me nuts because to this day people will be like, look how amazing the New York Liberty are doing. And they'll show like a side by side of the crowd in 2021. Cause that's really when the size like bought the team. And kind of they're back in Brooklyn now after being in Westchester, all that. And then they're like, I look at it now and I'm like, is no one gonna say this was the COVID year? Is no one gonna point that out anyways? That's just really needed to say that. So, yeah. So you're only in New York a couple years and then again you get traded. But this one, I felt from the outside like this one came out of nowhere a little bit. It did, yeah. So you get traded to Dallas. Did you see it coming? And then how did that feel?
- [51:17]
Natasha Howard
No, I didn't see it coming.
- [51:18]
Sue Bird
Okay.
- [51:19]
Natasha Howard
At all. I didn't see it coming. I actually found out on social media.
- [51:24]
Sue Bird
Social media.
- [51:25]
Natasha Howard
And I was in Tallahassee at the time, so I seen it on social media.
- [51:30]
Sue Bird
What was that?
- [51:30]
Natasha Howard
Like what? I call my agent. So I'm like, well, what, what is going on right now? And my agent was mad. He was like, hold on. So I was like, here we go again. What other trade? But like now I know like the reason why I did get traded. So now I understand why I got traded.
- [51:49]
Sue Bird
Okay, what, what, what do you, like, what, why did you get traded?
- [51:52]
Natasha Howard
Because they needed more space for getting other players in. And my. And my salary is a lot. So.
- [51:59]
Sue Bird
Okay, yeah. So that you're like, okay, I get.
- [52:01]
Natasha Howard
It, I get it now. But before, no.
- [52:03]
Sue Bird
Okay, yeah. No. Finding on social. Finding on social media I think is just. It's really one of the downsides of just kind of like how the business of sports goes right now, that players have to have that happen. So I'm sorry that happened to you, but you're in Dallas now and I think sadly again, like, like we're now, you know, going to experience the next two years in your time in Dallas, just a lot of injuries. You know, last year, which was your second year in Dallas, you break your foot. You know, Satu's got issues with her shoulder. Maddie Secrets breaks her finger. So I feel like those Dallas Wings teams had so much potential and you guys never had a chance to like see it through.
- [52:45]
Natasha Howard
Like, I feel like people seen glimpse of it my first year there.
- [52:48]
Sue Bird
Yeah.
- [52:49]
Natasha Howard
And you know, second year injuries and stuff. And I feel like we didn't have the injuries. I feel like they probably would have seen what they seen last season when I was there in 2023, they would have seen more. And coming into 2024, I feel like we'd have probably been probably a contender for a championship that.
- [53:07]
Sue Bird
That we definitely wouldn't have been in the lottery.
- [53:09]
Natasha Howard
Yeah.
- [53:10]
Sue Bird
You know, like, you guys definitely would have made the playoffs. So, like I said, I feel like that's. That's. It's gotta be sad. And then when the season ends, anybody who's on social media, about five minutes later, literally 0.2 seconds later, you're on there talking about, thanks, Dallas, I'm out of here. No, it wasn't like that. It wasn't like that. It was a little like that.
- [53:32]
Natasha Howard
A lot of people, like, you posted it as soon as you. I'm like, no, I did not post it as soon as I.
- [53:35]
Sue Bird
Was it just a plane right after your exit interview or what?
- [53:39]
Natasha Howard
Way before that? I'm like, no, I thought about it.
- [53:41]
Sue Bird
You posted that before your exit interview? Oh, my God. What was your exit interview like? Did you even have one?
- [53:47]
Natasha Howard
I had one. Okay, have one.
- [53:48]
Sue Bird
It was just a lot of thank yous.
- [53:50]
Natasha Howard
It was a lot of thank you for, like, the things that you've done for the past two. Two seasons with us and stuff.
- [53:54]
Sue Bird
Like, okay, so it was cool. Yeah, that was cool. How. How did. How and why did you know so fast? Like, I want something different.
- [54:01]
Natasha Howard
I feel like I need something different. Like, Dallas was fun, and I like, you know, I love the player that I played with and stuff, but I just felt like I think I needed something new. And just on top of that, just back to just having fun again. And I felt like, I have fun, but I felt like it was forced.
- [54:22]
Sue Bird
I could imagine that in the course of four years, you're on two teams, you go to Dallas in a trade you weren't expecting. It doesn't feel like a lot of choice. And now you're a free agent. You've already been cored, so that's done, and now you have choice again. So I feel like I totally get the empowerment. The question is, was it just always Indiana or was anybody else in the mix?
- [54:45]
Natasha Howard
Was other teams in the mix?
- [54:47]
Sue Bird
Okay.
- [54:47]
Natasha Howard
It just wasn't Indiana.
- [54:49]
Sue Bird
So what made you choose Indiana?
- [54:51]
Natasha Howard
I feel like I had unfinished business in that 2015 season. So I'm like, man, it's a little circle moment. Yeah. Little circle moment. And it just feels. And I also feel good to be back to where I started. And it Was kind of hard for my family to come see me all the way in Dallas as well. So I was just happy to be back so they could actually come support me and I got to see my mom more. But it just, it just actually felt good to be. Just to be back to where I started.
- [55:19]
Sue Bird
In your free agency process, you know, one of the quotes I saw was that you wanted to feel valued as a person first. How did that group of women. But then really the franchise as a whole, like, how did they make you feel?
- [55:30]
Natasha Howard
That they made me feel like, like going through the whole free agency thing there was like, yes. Like, they sent me and my wife like this little. I don't know what it is, but, like, when you open it up as a video saying like, like that right there means, like, they sent the video saying, like, tash, thank you. Da, da, da. Just saying, like, we really need you. Like, that right there means a lot right there. Like, just thinking outside of the box, like, you would never ever think a team would actually do something like that. Thinking outside of the box. And that's one thing I actually like about them and just how they doing any and everything to make sure I come to Indiana. And like, they, they did not stop at all until I signed with them. And they. And they main focus was just making sure that I'm happy first. Just making sure that I will be comfortable and that my family will be comfortable, that that's gonna be coming with me. So. And that's one thing that, that I harped on a lot. Just making sure that I'm happy, I'm comfortable and that my family's going to be comfortable too.
- [56:31]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I know that is important. That's how you get to play your best.
- [56:34]
Natasha Howard
Yeah.
- [56:34]
Sue Bird
Feeling that. Were you excited to play with Caitlyn?
- [56:37]
Natasha Howard
I was.
- [56:37]
Sue Bird
Yeah. So talk about that. Your first impressions of her?
- [56:42]
Natasha Howard
My first impression of her when I first seen him, like, dang, like, this is what everybody's talking about right here. This girl right here. Yeah. But, like, just getting, like, getting to know Caitlyn more and stuff like that. Like, she was my love, a little sister. Like, and like, because she's only 22 years old, like, she reminds me of a little sister that, like, that I could put on my wing and just guide her and just, just be that vet for her and just let her know, like, you're not alone with this. We, I got your back, like, no matter what. Like, because we know you got a lot of stuff on your shoulders right now, like, like, let me take some of that off your shoulder for you. Like, you don't got to do everything on your own.
- [57:17]
Sue Bird
Okay. Has it been. So you competed against her, but now you're her teammate. So I'm curious, like, what did. What are you learning now that you're getting for lack of a better courtside seat to what she does shoulder and what she does experience, but also her as a basketball player, she experienced a.
- [57:33]
Natasha Howard
Lot because she like, like everybody know that she can shoot the heck out the ball and she could pass. But like, yes, like, just letting her know that you don't have to do everything like, like, like you have to do in Iowa. Like you have. You have great teammates and, and phenomenal players around you that. That could take that wood off your shoulder. You don't have to do everything like we, we expect you to knock down those. Those clutch shots. Like that's, that's what we expect you to do. But like, overall, like, you don't have to do everything like you don't like. Yeah, like, let us, let us give us some of your. Your pressure too. Like, so you don't have a too much and overwork yourself.
- [58:14]
Sue Bird
Yeah. Well, we're recording this ON Today is June 23rd, so as of today, we're about like, you know, give or take a third of the way through the season, which is crazy. Third of the way. You're currently averaging 11 and a half points, five and a half rebounds. You guys are six and seven. So you know, a lot of expectations coming into the season, but you've had also had a lot of injuries. People in and out of the roster is never easy, especially with a new team, you know, new roster, all that. How would you describe this season so far for. For you. For the Indiana Fever?
- [58:51]
Natasha Howard
We're still learning each other. You know, a lot of people never played with. Well coach been coached with Steph, so a lot of players. We never played with each other. This is our first time playing with each other. So like, we still learning what we like to do on the court, but overall I feel like we actually getting it all together. Like it's gonna like, you know, be 6 and 7, but still like, like you seen what we could capable of doing in some of these games that we won and some of the games that we lost too, so. But still a work in progress though. But we just scratching the surface still. We climb, still climbing.
- [59:30]
Sue Bird
How do you guys block out all the chatter that happens like outside of the locker room? How do you keep that out of the locker room?
- [59:39]
Natasha Howard
We just focus on what we need to Focus on inside the locker room. Like, we let our, like, our team handle what's going on outside the locker room. But us, our main focus, just focusing on what's going on inside the locker room that we can control and stuff, because we can't control what other people do outside of the locker room. So we just. Our main focus is making sure that we stay together in this locker room. Okay.
- [60:02]
Sue Bird
All right. So, you know, we've kind of talked through your whole career, and I think one of my favorite parts is it is unique in a sense. It is unique in a sense. Like, you have what I would call elite accolades. We've talked a lot about them throughout the course. Defensive player of the year, three time champ, all star. But you did take these, like, incremental steps, like each stop, like, each team you played on, you learn something new, you gain something. Some of it through adversity, some of it through injury, some of it through championships. And slowly but surely, you got better every year since you have had success and you're on a team now of just younger players. Do you think that the only way to learn some of the things that you've learned in your career is through experience, or do you think there are actual words that you can share with them to help speed up that process?
- [60:58]
Natasha Howard
I'll say through experience, and I'll say both experience and also use my. Using my. My voice to let them know, like, this is what I've been through. And you kind of going through the same thing, so I understand what you're going through. So. But like. Like, just put one foot in front of the other and just take your time. Don't rush. Like, if you rush, it ain't gonna get done how you want it to get done. So just be patient. Yeah, and be patient. Patient is the. It's the main thing. And when it comes to anything, life or sports, whatever, just patience.
- [61:31]
Sue Bird
You do know that, you know, being called a leader is just code for you getting old.
- [61:40]
Natasha Howard
I guess that's me. I said, then that's what they say.
- [61:42]
Sue Bird
Like, oh, she's a veteran leader, man. They just called me old.
- [61:47]
Natasha Howard
I hear that every day. Well, not on the team, though.
- [61:50]
Sue Bird
But, like, no, no, I don't mean the team. Sorry. No, I don't mean the team. I don't mean the team. It's the outside voice. And obviously I can say that because I was hella old when I finished. Okay, just a couple more before I let you go. I mean, I can't say it enough. You've had so much success in your career. I just. I really need to know, and I need you to explain the swim goggles in the 2018 celebration locker room.
- [62:12]
Natasha Howard
Swim goggles?
- [62:13]
Sue Bird
What was up with the swim goggles? You said you had us and then you showed up.
- [62:17]
Natasha Howard
I, like, I couldn't find, like, I couldn't find, like, the goggle that Stewie had on the Red Bull. I couldn't find under them. So I went to the closest Walmart or Target to I try to find some goggles. Everybody was like, well, we have these right here. I said, well, I take them.
- [62:29]
Sue Bird
That'll do.
- [62:30]
Natasha Howard
That would do.
- [62:31]
Sue Bird
So, yeah, they got the job done.
- [62:32]
Natasha Howard
Exactly. They got the job done. So nobody eye wasn't burning. Nobody wasn't complaining about I need water in my eye. So.
- [62:38]
Sue Bird
Oh, my God. Honestly, winning a WNBA championship and wearing, you know, five year old swim goggles to celebrate, I don't know which one I value more, which memory is more important to me. The swim goggles was so funny.
- [62:52]
Natasha Howard
It was funny.
- [62:53]
Sue Bird
It was so funny. But the best part was you texted us. Do you remember that?
- [62:56]
Natasha Howard
I did. I text you guys saying, I got goggles.
- [62:58]
Sue Bird
We're good, guys. We got the goggles. Okay, in a more serious note, you've played on a lot of teams. Like, why is Seattle your favorite? No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, seriously, last question. Does I like to ask all my guests this, like, what does success look like for you this year? And then second, what does success look like for the Indiana Fever of this year?
- [63:25]
Natasha Howard
For me, I feel like just getting better. I feel like that's just success for me is getting better and just. And just keep. Keep elevating my game. That's for me. But for Indiana, just finishing strong during the regular season. And then we can focus on what comes next after that.
- [63:44]
Sue Bird
Yeah, I love that. All right, Tash, you survived. Thank you. How was it?
- [63:47]
Natasha Howard
It was good.
- [63:48]
Sue Bird
Yeah. It was fun chatting with you, man. I had a good time. You've had a hell of a career. All right. I finally got to the bottom of it. We know what happened with the 2018 swim goggles. I'm really glad we figured that out. No, I'm just kidding. That was really fun talking to Tash. I really hadn't sat down with her probably since I played with her, so it was really interesting for me to hear the story of her career. The little tidbits she learned along the way, like, be patient. Shout out Tamika Catchings. She's obviously carried that with her throughout her entire career. And also how every player's success looks different. A lot of times you hear about players that, you know, have it early and then keep it, that find it. And I think for Tash, it was just every day, every season, every year, figuring things out, adding something, and then really just staying ready. She talked about staying ready a lot because you never know when that opportunity is gonna come calling. And for Tash, she took advantage of pretty much every opportunity thrown her way. Another thing that I really enjoyed talking to Tasha about was just how what she does, the way she fits in with all of these great teams, it's really a skill. And it actually reminds me of TJ McConnell's interview where he talks about playing hard being a skill. I mean, I know it sounds crazy to think that playing hard is a skill, but to play hard A is not easy. B, to play hard consistently all the time, every game, that's when the skill part of it kicks in. That's when you have to work at it. You can't just show up one day and say, oh, I'll play hard today. It's something you have had to have been doing for a really long time. And that's really every skill. And I think at times, yeah, it can get taken for granted. So it was great to hear from Natasha and hear her point of view, and I hope you enjoyed it. This episode is a co production of Together and Vox Media. Our producers are Tommy Alter, Jason Gallagher, Richie Bozek, Harry Krinsky and Jess Clarendon. Special thanks to Ramon Dampour.
- [65:47]
Sponsor
Support for this show comes from. Pure leaf iced tea. When you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need pure leaf iced tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab the A pure leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a pure leaf.