Bitcoin Audible – Chat_156: Simplifying Sovereignty with Praveen

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In this episode, host Guy Swann sits down with developer Praveen Pereira, creator of the Cove Wallet, for an in-depth exploration of simplifying Bitcoin self-custody for broad adoption. The conversation dives into design tradeoffs, backup solutions, user experience, the Lightning network, the importance of diversity in Bitcoin clients, and the nuanced risks of wallet security and protocol development.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meet Praveen and the Genesis of Cove Wallet

[05:23–10:47]

• Praveen credits the COVID era as the catalyst that led him deeply into Bitcoin and motivated him to build tools that make self-custody accessible.
• His background as a developer focused on building things that he personally wanted to use, only taking on a Bitcoin project when he felt he could provide a unique, valuable contribution.
• Identified a gap: no simple mobile Bitcoin wallet integrated well with hardware wallets—his own preference being to keep UX/UI minimal and clean by deliberately not bundling multisig or Lightning from the outset.
• Quote:

  "I start with a 'no'... the reason I'm able to focus on the UI and UX of Cove and make it simple is because it doesn't do too much." — Praveen [09:22]

2. Design Philosophy: One-Thing-Well & Unbundling

[12:15–14:24]

• Both Guy and Praveen agree on the principle of building apps and wallets specialized for one use-case, avoiding feature-bloat and unnecessary complexity.
• Quote:

  "I want stuff to do one thing... and do it reliably in a simple UX." — Guy [12:50]

• Analogies to Netflix/cable's evolution, and Bitcoin's decision to be money-first rather than pursue multipurpose (like Ethereum).

3. Lightning, Custodial Risk, and Practical Usage

[10:47–14:41]

• Praveen uses Lightning, mostly in a custodial manner for convenience with small amounts—emphasizing practical tradeoffs for different situations.
• Highlights promising projects like Money Dev Kit (SDK for self-custodial Lightning) and discusses focusing on main-chain as a "boring," robust default for Cove.
• Quote:

  "To be honest [Lightning] hasn't been easy... For Cove, it doesn't need to be everything for everyone." — Praveen [10:51]

4. Backups: The User’s Greatest Risk

[17:31–34:34]

• An extensive segment on backup strategies for wallets—balancing usability with security, especially for "normies."
• Previous solutions (Phoenix, Kraken, Bull Bitcoin) have tradeoffs: e.g., reliance on iCloud, user-generated passkeys, or third-party servers.
• Cove’s Backup Architecture:
  • Implements encrypted local master key + passkey (Apple, 1Password) to make restoration seamless while end-to-end secure.
  • Emphasizes syncing encrypted wallet backups across multiple storages (iCloud Drive, Dropbox, Google Drive).
• Quote:

  "I just want to get the users up and running without worrying about it too much and actually having some backups. But...I really want to guide the user through this journey..." — Praveen [34:34]

5. Passkeys, Encryption, and Security Tradeoffs

[23:24–34:34; 37:31–42:23]

• In-depth explanation of passkeys as cryptographic primitives for backup security—a detour into how apps like Apple, 1Password, and Bitwarden manage these.
• Describes the use of a passkey’s PRF extension for deterministic encryption, allowing multi-device sync without exposing secrets.
• Reviews Apple’s trust model and caveats (denial of service, not fully open source, risk of Apple collusion).
• Quote:

  "[Passkeys are] public-private cryptography, which is what Bitcoin is." — Praveen [25:10]

6. Balancing Maximum Security and Accessibility

[34:35–38:40]

• Discussion of just-in-time upgrades—getting users onboarded quickly, with automatic backups, and nudging them gradually towards best practice self-custody or hardware wallets as their exposure grows.
• Guy’s Nuance Principle:

  "The degree of concern should explicitly be tied to the degree of risk... a perfect place for custodial Lightning."

• Praveen on maximalism:

  "Let's use our brains, let's have some nuance with all these things. Maximalism is good, but let's...think about it a little deeper." [37:11]

7. Specs, Open Standards, and Collaboration

[43:23–45:35]

• Praveen discusses collaborating with other wallet devs to standardize backup protocols (based on Bull Bitcoin’s approach and the Photon spec).
• Goal: a reviewed, cross-platform spec for passkey-based backups, allowing migration or restoration across wallets in the future.

8. Peer-to-Peer, Infrastructure, and Sovereignty

[59:10–100:18, incl. 88:28–92:22]

• Guy introduces Pear Drive—a peer-to-peer, social, sovereign file sharing/backup protocol emphasizing user ownership, simple onboarding, and resistance to centralized chokepoints.
• The benefit of peer-to-peer: eliminating hosting/infrastructure costs, resisting censorship, and empowering users to run "servers" at home.
• Discussion of open standards (Iroh, Parastack, Turso) for data sync, the challenge of cross-device syncing, and designing for longevity.
• Quote (Guy):

  "The benefit of peer to peer is... I can host a server without DNS, without AWS cost, without a front end ... My Linux machine at home, on my normal internet connection, can be a server..." [88:29]

9. The Coming Era of AI and SDKs

[101:36–104:40]

• Both anticipate a "vibe coding" era as AI accelerates app prototyping, with robust SDKs, documentation, and frameworks being crucial.
• Money Dev Kit as a leading example of an SDK built for AI and rapid development.
• For security-critical tools, code review remains essential—AI can type, it can't think.

10. Bitcoin Core, Alternative Clients, and Social Layer Risks

[111:56–117:25]

• Both critique "core maximalism" and discuss the value of alternative clients (like Knots) for ecosystem resilience, consensus diversity, and defense against single points of social or technical failure.
• The distinction between Bitcoin as open-source "software" vs. money, and the need for empathy and inclusiveness with non-technical users.
• Quote (Praveen):

  "Bitcoin is not open source software... It is so much more than that. It's not just a piece of software... It is money." [114:52]

11. Mempool Policy, Spam, and Protocol Upgrades

[117:25–140:17]

• A critical take on the mempool policy debate, inscriptions, spam, and the proportionality of soft-forks versus mempool-based filtering.
• Both favor practical, minimal changes over "return free risk", and lament lost opportunities to discourage spam via mempool policy.
• Discussion of BIP110, the risks of up_return expansion, and the balance between legal risk, consensus, and dev hubris.
• Quote (Guy):

  "I wanted money to be free and open and uncensorable for everyone. Not storing JPEGs on other people's computers." [127:43]
  Quote (Praveen):
  "That's my problem. But, but what gets me fired up and angry is... it's not that they're not arguing... they're like, it's the same as inscription... it's obviously not." [129:47]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On backups and user mistakes:

  "99.9% of your biggest enemy is yourself. Your biggest enemy is your backup." — Guy [48:52]

• On developer hubris:

  "People are so dismissive... they dismiss these people that are not technical but understand bitcoin as money... Bitcoin is not just open source software, it's money." — Praveen [114:06-114:52]

• On feature-bloat:

  "Everything doesn't have to do everything." — Guy [12:50]

• On mempool policy and risk:

  "Return free risk. That's a great way to put it." — Guy [130:08]

• On the evolving Bitcoin client ecosystem:

  "I think having core being 90%, 80%, whatever it is, is probably one of the biggest risks we have left in Bitcoin ..." — Praveen [114:48–117:25]

Key Timestamps

• Intro and show overview: [01:01–05:20]
• Praveen on his Bitcoin path: [06:29–10:47]
• Lightning/network wallet tradeoffs: [10:47–14:41]
• Design philosophy and unbundling: [13:40–15:57]
• Backups & passkey intro: [17:31–34:34]
• Apple, 1Password, and passkey technicals: [23:24–34:34; 37:31–42:23]
• Attacker & threat models, Apple caveats: [45:43–47:45]
• Peer-to-peer & user sovereignty: [59:10–101:36]
• AI, SDKs, and code generation: [101:36–104:40]
• Alternative clients, mempool, protocol risks: [111:56–140:17]
• Bitcoin’s money-ness vs. technical purity: [114:06–114:52]

Closing Thoughts

This episode captures a refreshing, honest look at the challenges and philosophies of building Bitcoin tools for mass adoption without sacrificing sovereignty. Praveen's insights into backup architecture, Guy's vision of user-owned infrastructure, and their mutual advocacy for pluralism in Bitcoin software and governance converge into a potent call for clarity, empathy, and proportionality—at every level from wallets to protocol.

Links, resources, and further reading are included in the show notes.

Cove Wallet is available now (iOS, soon Android).
Find Praveen on Twitter: @PraveenPereira
Cove Wallet: covewallet.com

“Let’s use our brains, let’s have some nuance with all these things.”
— Praveen Pereira [37:11]

Bitcoin Audible – “The best in Bitcoin made Audible”
Host: Guy Swann | Episode 156 | January 8, 2026
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