As Told By Ginger

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Black People Love Paramore
Episode: As Told By Ginger (November 13, 2025)
Host: Sequoia Holmes
Co-host: Jewel Wicker

This episode is a deep-dive and lively celebration of the animated show As Told By Ginger, reflecting on its cultural relevance, nuanced characters, and unique appeal—especially among Black audiences. The hosts reminisce about the show’s coming-of-age themes, its depiction of social hierarchies, body image, friendship drama, and how it subtly reflected familiar dynamics in their own (and many Black viewers') adolescence.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why As Told By Ginger?

• It's the 25th anniversary of the show's debut (Nickelodeon, 2000).
• Created by Klasky Csupo, notable for shows like Rugrats and The Wild Thornberrys.
• Known for:
  • Characters changing clothes and aging—a rarity in animated series.
  • Ongoing story arcs and mature topics (friend drama, puberty, identity, single parenthood).
  • Emotional storytelling and "realism" compared to contemporaries.

2. The “Black-Coding” Debate

• Some fans believe main character Ginger and her mom Lois are “Black-coded,” particularly due to Lois’s single-mom resilience and “sass.”
• Jewel: “Lois had a Midwestern... up north single mom” (03:10–03:16).
• The hosts conclude the family is more plausibly modeled as a Jewish, northern white family, but recognize how Black viewers connected with Lois’s energy and family structure.
• Cultural relatability: For Black audiences unfamiliar with Jewish culture, the show's family dynamics could read as Black-coded (04:05–04:16).

3. Characterization, Representation & Fun Facts

• Ginger: Kind, creative, voiced by Melissa Disney.
• Darren: Ginger's Black best friend (originally white in pilot), gets a "glow up" when his headgear is removed.
• Miranda: The only prominent Black female, voiced by Cree Summer, but depicted as the "mean girl."
• Lois: Ginger’s overworked, tender, “tired” single mom.
• Courtney: The blonde popular girl, rumored to nearly have a crush on Ginger (per show creator, execs vetoed it).
• Notable: As Told By Ginger was nominated for three Primetime Emmys.

Notable quote:

• On Macy (the quirky friend with gray hair):
  "I don’t know why they made that middle schooler also subsequently 76." – Sequoia (13:12–13:24)

• On Miranda’s role:
  "If there weren’t some more black characters in this show, I would call racism. And I'm gonna call it anyway…" – Sequoia (15:29–15:34)

4. Fashion, Identity, 'Cartoon Outfits'

• The hosts discuss how most cartoons have characters in one outfit, while Ginger switched it up.
• They playfully describe what their cartoon “signature look” would be, swapping funny stories about real-life “cartoon outfits,” including a legendary striped shirt that Sequoia’s friends all wore to karaoke as a surprise.
  (See 08:08–09:35 for this humorous exchange.)

5. Theme Song & Soundtrack

• The theme’s evolution (sung variously by Melissa Disney, Cree Summer, and Macy Gray).
• Jewel: “I think it’s one of the most iconic cartoon theme songs of that era” (19:30–19:36).
• Sequoia: “The rasp was so… perfect at, like, evoking the coming-of-age sentiments…” (20:07–20:18).

6. Relatable Storylines & Puberty

• The show realistically engages with body image, beauty standards, bullying, and adolescence.
• Particularly memorable: the focus on the first time shaving, period/sex education episodes, and feelings of awkwardness about changing in gym class.
• Both hosts reflect on their own puberty-related moments:
  • "I remember the first time I plucked my eyebrows … I thought I was eating down. Mind you, it was 2007 … I definitely had the sperm brow." – Sequoia (44:28–45:33)
  • Jewel tells a story of a sixth grade classmate prompting her to start shaving her armpits (45:33–46:55).

7. School Dynamics & Black Girlhood

• The show’s school setting felt familiar to both, echoing the interconnected, less segregated cliques of their own school experiences.
• Hosts recall the shifting social hierarchy (like Darren’s newfound popularity after losing his headgear).
• Sequoia shares: “There was this one boy I knew since kindergarten ... in high school, he looked different ... and then he didn't pay me any mind because I didn't before.” (42:07–42:59)
• They note how Black viewers might see themselves in Ginger’s or Lois' outsider status, or in the school’s culture.

8. Friendship Betrayals & Dodie's Messiness

• Dodie is described as "the worst friend" for sharing Ginger’s secrets (hairy legs) and prioritizing popularity over loyalty.
• Jewel: "There was an episode where Dodie did the morning announcement… it was like, girl, shut the hell up. Why are you trying to tell on people who got lice? ... you're not a fun person" (25:09–25:42).

9. Societal Norms, Friendship, & Desire

• The podcast highlights lookism/desirability politics through the show’s arcs (Darren's "glow up," Ginger’s self-consciousness).
• They recall early adolescent parties and the social awkwardness of preteen milestones like dancing or start of periods.
  • Jewel: “I remember going to my first twerk party in seventh grade…” (49:42–50:07)
  • Sequoia’s story of starting her period at age 10 (53:05–53:41).
• Both discuss how these storylines resonated with the realities of Black girlhood, especially for those whose bodies matured early.

10. Race & Representation Critique

• Miranda, as the only Black girl, is written as the malicious bully, while the main trio remain white/non-Black.
• Sequoia: “...the way that they had my girl be this weird, mean, malicious bully. The only black character…” (58:13–59:01)

11. Astrology Segment

• The hosts playfully attempt to guess star signs for each character based on personality:
  • Ginger: Libra or Pisces
  • Darren: Taurus
  • Dodie: “Sucky”—no sign! (31:03)
  • Macy: Cancer
  • Courtney: Leo
  • Miranda: Scorpio
  • Carl: Aquarius or Gemini (See 28:20–34:39 for this segment.)

12. Personal Reflections & Takeaways

• Who did the hosts identify with? Mostly Ginger, to a degree Macy, but never Dodie or Miranda.
• Sequoia: “I definitely thought I was a main character. Especially as an only child... I thought I was the center of every universe...” (61:13–61:26)
• Jewel resonated more with Ginger’s discomfort being the center of attention.

13. Character Rankings

• Lois (Ginger’s mom), Ginger, and Darren top both hosts’ lists.
• Dodie and Hoodsie universally land at the bottom.
• Quote: “Dodie is in hell. Hoodsie’s last. And Dodie is in hell.” – Sequoia (71:58)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Black-coded characters:
  “You know, some characters are black coded... I always thought Eliza from the Wild Thornberrys, I’m like, she’s black coded.” – Sequoia (02:13)

• On representation:
  “Once you realize it, you’re like, oh, okay, like the way she talks—very much like, like I said, northern single white mom. And then the Jewish part, I was like, okay, I got it.” – Jewel (04:16–04:29)

• On theme song legacy:
  “To me, I'm like, they got Macy Gray!” – Jewel (19:37)

• On puberty and Black girlhood:
  “I was a Black girl with ass and hips in middle school … I was thicker. I had titties … I would do everything in my power to never turn around so people could see the back of me.” – Sequoia (55:04–55:26)

• On Miranda’s problematic portrayal:
  “So nasty and so, so rude. She was so rude. So nasty and so, so rude … I didn't like she was Courtney’s little sidekick either.” – Sequoia (58:38–58:55)

• On Dodie’s friendship failures:
  “I would have cartwheeled down the hallway to tell my best friend, ‘let me tell you something!’” – Jewel (27:19–27:37)

---

Important Timestamps

• 02:20: Ginger and Lois “Black-coded” debate
• 04:05: Jewish Northeast family context
• 11:18–18:02: Main character breakdown and representation
• 19:30–20:18: Iconic theme song segment
• 24:24–27:19: Dodie’s betrayal and friendship drama
• 41:11–44:27: Desirability, puberty, and transformation stories
• 53:05–55:26: Period stories and body image in adolescence
• 58:13–59:01: Critique of Miranda’s characterization
• 28:20–34:39: Astrology guessing game
• 71:48–73:08: Character ranking

---

Episode Tone and Style

• Conversational, humorous, nostalgic, and candid—laden with personal stories and pop culture commentary.
• Plenty of playful teasing and cultural references, but always grounded in genuine, nuanced analysis of representation and adolescence.

---

For New Listeners

This episode offers a thoughtful and hilarious window into how As Told By Ginger resonated with Black women, unpacking both its flaws and its groundbreaking moments. Full of nostalgia, sharp critique, and straight-up funny anecdotes (from eyebrow mishaps to awkward parties), it’s a must-listen for any millennial who ever felt a little “scene”—or not seen—on TV.

---

Engage with the Hosts

• YouTube: Black People Love Paramore
• Instagram/Twitter: @bplppod
• Email: [e-mail]

(For feedback, praise, or, as the hosts joke, a little lighthearted “playing in their inbox”—but not hate mail!)

---

Next up on the pod:
New episodes every other Thursday, covering everything from Paramore to anime and beyond.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign welcome to Black People Love Paramore, a pop culture podcast. Not about the band Paramore, but about the content, common and uncommon interests of black people in order to help us feel a little bit more seen. I'm Sequoia.

[B]

I'm Jewel.

[A]

And today you already know we're going to be talking about Asshole by Ginger. I'm sure you saw the episode title, but before that you already know the vibes. Rate review 5 stars. 5 star Wartio Gotti. Not that Other lady, who has since become outward in her support for Donald Trump. Also, if you like, some merch. Unrelated to the Other lady, but related to Ariana Grande, who is friends with the other lady at some point, I don't know if she still is. It's down below.

[B]

This is going off the rails very quickly.

[A]

Yes, it did. It did go off the rails. Yes, it did. It just. You know what I mean? The connections were forming in my head and I was speaking them as I saw them. We're getting into his hole By Ginger today. And so By Ginger is an animated preteen drama television series produced by Kolaski Suppo. I don't even know how to say that. Who also produced Rugrats Errol Nickelodeon. It focused on junior high school, then later high school, I think it was called Lucky High, if I'm not mistaken, followed a girl named Ginger Foutley, who along with her friends tries to come become more than a social geek. Remember when the term geek was like such a thing and it was just like so offensive, like, o, you're a geek. Anyways, the series first aired on Nickelodeon October 25, 2000, making this year its 25th anniversary. Happy birthday. As Told by Ginger.

[B]

We love to see it. The studio that did Rugrats and As Told by Ginger also did my fave, the Wild Thornberries.

[A]

So I just. I do like the Wild Thornberries.

[B]

The Wild Thornberries. Heavy.

[A]

Yeah. You know, some characters are black coded. I always thought Eliza from the Wild Thornberries. I'm like, she's black coded.

[B]

That's so interesting because I was reading folks were like, ginger is black coated.

[A]

And I was gonna say ginger.

[B]

I don't see it.

[A]

It's. You know what? Okay, so we'll get into this in the episode as well. We might as well get into it now. People say Ginger is black coded because of her mom. Lois. Her mom is a single mom. I want to say she's like a nurse and she, you know, she, you. You could just tell she tired, she be working long shift, she come home, she Got to deal with Carl's annoying weird ass. She got a preteen girl.

[B]

Nobody is just a single woman.

[A]

But they did, they did. They said. And you know, she. She had a little. She had a little sass to her, little zest to her.

[B]

Lois.

[A]

Yeah, okay. Lois. Yes. Lois had a Midwestern.

[B]

She sounds like an up north single mom.

[A]

To be fair. That's exactly what she was.

[B]

And that's exactly what she was. And then people were like, but what about the hair? And I was like, yeah, they explained in one of the episodes that they got some Jewish roots. Like, I feel like this is just a very, like northern white family.

[A]

And that's very fair because, yeah, it takes place in Connecticut. And the friends that I have who are from Connecticut tell me that there is a solid Jewish population there. So it does track for me though, someone who grew up in Southern California. There really isn't a big. At least not in Long.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In Long beach, where I grew up. Let me be specific because since I've been moved to la, there's a much bigger Jewish population in Long Beach. There's really not that big of a Jewish population. I remember the kids that were Jewish in school, and I only remember them because they celebrated Hanukkah and not Christmas. And it was like.

[B]

But it wasn't like you weren't introduced to the culture.

[A]

But. No, not at all introduced to the culture. So, you know, I see how you get to black coded for a Ginger and her mom if never been introduced to Jewish culture. But they very much are very Jewish seeming.

[B]

They are literally like, once you, once you realize it, you're like, oh, okay, like the way she talks. Very much like, like I said, northern single white mom. And then the Jewish part, I was like, okay, I got it right. Understood.

[A]

Right. So this show ran for four years, ended production in 2004. Although some is some episodes initially aired on television through 2021.

[B]

Oh, it's not making sense to me. Yeah, they weren't airing in America for my understanding.

[A]

It must not have been. Yeah, because I'm really looking like, you.

[B]

Know, Nickelodeon had other, like, channels and platforms and things and I think it was stuff that was airing that makes sense there.

[A]

It was nominated for three Primetime Emmy Awards for outstanding Animated program for programs less than an hour. It was praised and noted for having an ongoing story arc and characters who developed, aged, changed their clothes throughout the show. A rare development in animated series at this time. So Ginger was one of the few cartoons where each episode the. The characters were wearing different clothing.

[B]

I Don't even know if I realized that until I read it. I did realize that once they got to high school, they changed clothes, but I don't know that I realized, like, the frequency of the clothing changes. Yeah.

[A]

I wonder if that costs more money, because it feels like it must be. You must have to pay somebody more to ideate clothes. Yeah. You know, because a character artist is always drawing the same character. You know, SpongeBob wearing the same thing. I feel like that's easier.

[B]

SpongeBob didn't have no clothes.

[A]

I mean, he didn't have no. You know, he always wearing. He got his little, you know. But suppose they. They tried to switch up that damn tux or, you know, that suit and tie situation every time. That'd be crazy. If you were a cartoon character, what would your cartoon outfit be? Your one outfit?

[B]

I don't know, because I'm trying to think, what will my cartoon character be getting into? You know what I'm trying to say? And what age would I be as the cartoon character? This is all.

[A]

So say you're right now. Say you're right now. What is your cartoon character wearing?

[B]

I would probably go for, like.

[A]

In.

[B]

My mind, I probably would have on, like, a pantsuit because, you know, I love a. Like, do you know I love a jumpsuit moment. I love a jumpsuit because that also gives girl boss 2000s in a way that I'm not really trying to give anymore. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like, I love it, but I do think that is. We're girl bursting a little too hard to say. So I don't know. But I think I would lean into. I would have a bob, for sure.

[A]

You have a bomb. Why your character don't look like you. I never.

[B]

I think about. You've never seen me in pants because you don't see me, because you don't. Hang on. You come here. I love a pants. Don't do that. I love a pantsuit. It's my favorite thing. Like, if I'm speaking or doing something, you're. I love a pantsuit. I.

[A]

Are you talking about one piece? Are you talking about multiple?

[B]

I'm not a jumpsuit. Let me not say a pantsuit.

[A]

I'm talking about a jumpsuit.

[B]

Yes. I love a jumpsuit. I'm not giving Hillary. I'm giving, like, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Anyway, I'm sorry. I'm being serious, but, like. But when I imagine myself in my mid-30s, I have a bob, and I'm like, in My mom. Like, I'm about to be a mom era. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what I give. Like, I get Kelly Rowland. That's what I. Okay. When I imagine my mid to late 30s, I've morphed. I've somehow found abs and have morphed into Kelly Rowland.

[A]

Okay. I, like, I'm not mad at that at all. So your cartoon character has a jumpsuit. She has a Bob. She is mid-30s. So you're like, you're giving an adult. An adult cartoon, like Daria type, even though they were kids.

[B]

She is very much Daria's tone. And she's dark.

[A]

Yes, Muted. Okay. Okay. That's fun. Not mad at that at all. If I had a cartoon character, I already know what she would be wearing because so many people have told me this is my cartoon outfit. It is this one shirt that I own. It's a. A striped, multicolored, vertical striped shirt.

[B]

The minute you said the one shirt that I own, you knew.

[A]

It hit you. It hit you. In fact, this year for my birthday back in June, my friend surprised me by all coming out wearing the shirt they had. Mind you, this shirt is a. A shirt from Zara. It is at least nine years old. I think I got it in 16 or 2017. My friends went on ebay, depop, etc found the shirt. Garrick smuggled the shirt out of my room, first of all, gave it to my friends. They looked at the tag, found ebay, all that. Got three different copies of the shirt, came into the karaoke where we're all singing. I'm in the middle of singing my song. They all file in wearing my damn shirt. It was crazy.

[B]

And that was the night we should have retired the shirt.

[A]

But did I retire it?

[B]

No, because you gonna bring it back. Because I need a sweater.

[A]

It's not a sweater.

[B]

It's not a sweater.

[A]

It's a short sleeve, perfectly cropped shirt, and it's vertical straps. And I love a vertical shape and it's really cute. And it's held up after 10 years.

[B]

And it's Zara, if you like it, I love it. So if you like it, I love it.

[A]

That would be my cartoon shirt. It would be that vertical stripe.

[B]

That is a very good cartoon version of you.

[A]

Exactly. And. And she would. She would probably have on a hat because I feel like I do hat often because the wigs, you know, I mean, I'm not gluing this down.

[B]

I've never known you to hat off.

[A]

Oh, yeah, baby. I had. If I If I'm in wigs, I'm having 90 of the time. So as right now the wig and the hat is on as we speak. So she probably have on a hat. A wig. Especially when I first got that shirt, I would always wig and hat and some mid wash denim jeans.

[B]

A snapback, a bucket hat. What kind of hat?

[A]

I did. I used to bucket hat. I now solely snap back because the kids be telling me that's super millennial to bucket hat.

[B]

So I don't care.

[A]

Okay, So I be. I will do a furry bucket hat moment. I will do a furry bucket hat, but just a standard bucket hat. I've tried to retire it, although I do love it.

[B]

I love it because I'm not going to retire y' all ain't gonna make me feel outdated.

[A]

They be trying to make me feel outdated. Anyways, that's what my cartoon. That's what my cartoon outfit would be. But I saw my Ginger has like very fun, strange little facts about it. So the creator claimed that they toyed with the idea of Courtney. Courtney is the blonde mean girl in it, confessing being in love with Ginger. But executives vetoed the idea because of course it's too true. That's what I've seen it multiple times now. It is on.

[B]

I thought that was a fan. I thought that was on IMDb thing.

[A]

I've seen it multiple times.

[B]

Anyway, good looking.

[A]

God speed, it's come up. So they were saying they was trying to make I like Courtney too. So let's actually talk about the characters. So we have Ginger. She's the main girl. She's voiced by Melissa Disney. She's redhead, curly hair, ginger, very cutesy, very mild mannered, sweet girl. We have her friend Darren Patterson. He's voiced by Kenny Blank. He's a black guy. He has headgear. Initially, I also, if I'm not mistaken, Darren was white in the pilot. Darren was white in the pilot.

[B]

I think they had multiple versions. So I don't know if they made him black in the like updated pilot. You know what I mean?

[A]

Okay. Yes, yes, yes, yes. They might have put out a pilot that was white and then subsequently released a pilot that he was black. And then they run with that black.

[B]

One and then they run with the thing. I don't know. Go on. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So he's the black gu guy with the headgear in the early seasons. He doesn't have headgear in the later seasons. We have Deidra Hortense or Doie Vost by Aspen Miller.

[B]

Not her name.

[A]

Deidra Deidra isn't that crazy?

[B]

Deep Doty Dodie being named Deidra is too much for me. That's crazy. Deidra.

[A]

I'm hearing Negro, but I'm not seeing one. So I am confused. I am confused. But yeah, Dodie is the blonde one. The blonde best friend. That's really annoying to me. Messy as hell and kind of like a hater.

[B]

She's not.

[A]

Is she blonde? She's blonde, right?

[B]

She's, like, brownish, like a light brown.

[A]

Dodie as told by Ginger. Yeah, yeah, okay. This is blonde to me, but I see how you get to light brown. Yeah, she's like a. A dirty blonde. Yeah. And then we have Macy Lightfoot, voiced by Jackie Harris. It's not. No, it's not Jackie Harris. It's not. It's not spelled like Jackie Harris, but it's voiced by somebody named Jackie Harris. Jula's like, if I say, I know, I know. It's not Jack A. Harris.

[B]

You play too much.

[A]

Anyways, Jackie. Hair. Anyways. Jack A. See, now I can't even say it. Macy is voiced by Jackie, and she's like the. The best friend that can't breathe through her nose. And I was always talking without being able to breathe through her nose. And she has, like, an old lady vibe to her. I don't know why they made that middle schooler. Also subsequently 76. I think her hair was great.

[B]

Maybe that's why I don't like it when y' all say that I was, like, born an old lady because that's what I think of. And I don't think that I give that, like, I can breathe. Do what I mean. Like, I don't think that that's fair. I think that Macy. Macy didn't give old lady vibes to me. Macy gives Jewel. Macy don't give old lady vibes to me. Macy gives nerd geek.

[A]

I'm about to send you this picture that I'm looking at at Mace of Macy and you can tell me.

[B]

She don't give old lady vibes to me. She just gives. Girl, you about to get jumped in the bathroom. Stop doing that. That's what she gives to me.

[A]

What? That she gives? Geek. She gives, like, the original. Yes. Like, that's a geek. Yes. You see the picture of Macy that just sent you? Look at this old lady church hat.

[B]

Because the other photo is her dressed up as the little seal girl in middle school.

[A]

Grow up anyways. And her hair is gray. I don't know why they make her hair gray.

[B]

That is interesting.

[A]

That is A. An odd choice. Anyways, and then we have Courtney Gripling, voiced by Liz Georges. That is the blonde, rich, mean girl. We have Miranda Kill Gallon. Yes. Miranda Kilgallen, voiced by Cree Summer, the icon herself. Cree Summer. We have Carl, which is Ginger's little. Oh, Miranda, by the way, is the black character. She's actually mean. Courtney's like, not. She's kind of rich. Yeah. Out of touch. Kind of, like annoying. Miranda is mean and malicious.

[B]

Actually, if it went some more black characters in this show, I would call racism.

[A]

I would. And I'm gonna call it anyways, so. Because I know other black women. I don't know another black woman on this show.

[B]

There's some black. There's some black women teachers on the show that are, like, really, like, nice and sweet. But I'm like, y' all better be glad it's somewhere melanin on this show. Because I was looking a little.

[A]

Because I was looking a little to.

[B]

The left and careful.

[A]

And to be fair, Miranda initially was white, and they say that in the pilot she was white again. They might have.

[B]

They might have been in on random characters. Is really me.

[A]

Because Cree Summer ended up voicing her. And so they were like, okay, Cree Summer is the voice of this. We. We want her.

[B]

And she's still gonna be mean as hell.

[A]

And she's still gonna. And you know what I mean? They already had her set up as a mean girl. I understand the optics are a little funny, but I do understand. And then we have the character Carl, which is Ginger's little brother. He's very weird. He's, like, into science and just, like, kind of gross, like, eat your boogers type younger brother. He seems disgusting. He's voiced by. Oh, it looks like a woman. Jenny Elias or Janine. No, it's Jenny Elias. I don't read well. And then we have Robert Joseph Hoodsy Bishop. That's Dodie's little brother. That's Carl's best friend, voiced by Tress McNelly McNeely. And then we have the icon herself, Lois, voiced by Lorraine Newman. I really like Lois.

[B]

I like Lois a lot. But I like Carl. I like Carl as a character. I think it's very. Like, we need boy stuff, you know? They very clearly threw in Carl and Hoodsie to give the boy something. It wasn't enough, because if I was a boy, Carlin Hoods, he would not be enough to convince me to stick around for the show.

[A]

Not for a soul by gender. I saw my Ginger was so deeply girl.

[B]

It was, yeah, like, girl. But I've read that they added Carl and Hoodsie to be like, we need something for the boys. Really needed to do a little more than that, babes. That wasn't enough. That wasn't enough.

[A]

To be fair, I almost turned off the TV every time Carla Hoodsie came out. I really might have been doing his job. They disgusted me. I thought they were actually gross. Like, they were always doing something weird.

[B]

I think they're. I think they are weird and gross, but in a little brother way. And I. I also think Carl is really smart. And I think, like, he's so weird and gross that you don't realize how smart he is.

[A]

No, he is really smart. Yeah, he.

[B]

I. I respect that. I like Carl. I like Carl.

[A]

Okay. I don't like. I never like boy.

[B]

I didn't say I was interested in what Carl was doing. I said I like Carl as a character.

[A]

Boy, do you know that song?

[B]

No.

[A]

I Don't Speak by Madison Beer.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Girl.

[B]

I was about to be embarrassed for not knowing it, but I'm okay.

[A]

You might have a way with words, but I'm a woman. I can understand you. I don't speak boy. No. Anyways, that's me. I don't.

[B]

What was that? Once there was only one Madison Beer song I liked, and they used to be on my little Sad Girl playlist. Selfish. Selfish was my song.

[A]

You like real songs? I'm trying to find a little pop vibe.

[B]

You know what I mean? Yeah, Selfish. My Sad Girl Cry playlist. But that's the only thing. I don't know nothing else about that lady.

[A]

I know all her. I know all her fun, except she.

[B]

Be pouting and people talk about her pout. That's all I know.

[A]

She's pretty. A pretty girl. Yes. I'm looking at this fact now. Miranda was originally written to be white, but changed to be black, both because Cree Summers casting and an attempt to be more ethnically diverse. Some other fun facts. There's three different versions of the theme song. The first version is sung by Ginger's voice actress Melissa Disney. The second version is sung by Miranda's Cree Summer. And the third, most recognizable is by Macy Gray. The as Told by Ginger theme song is so, so, so iconic.

[B]

I think it's one of the most iconic cartoon theme songs of, like, that era. For sure.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

I was a kid, and I mean, I was a kid watching as Told by Ginger. And to me, I'm like, they got Macy. Like, me too. Why do you give a damn? I'm like, they got Macy Gray like, I really thought it was, like, a thing, you know what I mean? The day I. Macy Gray to sing this damn theme song.

[A]

I did. It was a thing. Yeah. It was like Macy Gray was having a moment.

[B]

Incredible at that time. Yeah.

[A]

I really liked her. Love it.

[B]

And I think she, like, was a good voice for it. Like, the. Her soulfulness, her rasp, like, her tongue.

[A]

The rasp was so.

[B]

It's so perfect at, like, evoking the, like, coming of age kind of sentiments of this. Of the series, you know? Like, I think it's a really smart choice.

[A]

I agree. I think Cree Summer would have done a good job. I never heard the Cree Summer version, but I imagine that Cree Summer also did something similar to Macy Gray on the theme song. I can't imagine a version sung by the white lady that voiced Ginger. That would have sucked, I think, unfortunately. Love you, girl. Ginger's iconic. Glad that you didn't get that First.

[B]

World problems, like, right now. It gives. Growing up is hard, you know what I'm saying? I feel that if that lady had sang it, it would have gave, like, oh, my God, I broke a nail. Like, you know what I mean? It would have gave, like, very, like, surface level. It wouldn't have given that depth, that, like, grit that I needed. So I'm not interested.

[A]

I agree. But, yeah, perfect theme song. Another fun fact. Emily Kapnick, the creator, confirmed that the show is, in fact set in the mid to late 90s. She felt like that was the most difficult time for a lot of kids to grow up and especially girls. And I'm assuming it's because of, like.

[B]

Yeah, and that's why.

[A]

Body politics.

[B]

Yeah. You saying Macy look like an old lady? No, she looked like a little. My mama used to put me in that outfit as a small child. Like them little matching hats with the shirts.

[A]

Was her hair gray?

[B]

Now, that part. I don't have the answers for. Middle school.

[A]

Not to elementary school. School. My mama anything in middle school, she.

[B]

Danced to the Little Seal girl. She clearly was still letting her mama dress her. Clearly. She was childish. She wasn't old. She was childish.

[A]

She was childish.

[B]

She was childish. Why her hair was gray? I don't know.

[A]

Yeah. Make it make sense. Is it a nod to Macy Gray because her name is Macy?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And her hair was great and Macy Gray.

[B]

Anyway, some people. My mom was one of those people that prematurely grayed in, like, high school and she had, like, gray hair. She wasn't fully gray, though. But I mean, she had, like, significant, like, gray hair, but she was not Fully gray, so I don't know. Middle school is a little early, but okay.

[A]

Yeah, middle school. She. She has a full head of gray hair.

[B]

Anyway, guess what? I would have been in the. In the hair salon. My hair dyed.

[A]

Very, very much so.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Also, how. What race was Macy? I. She read Asian to me. No, she didn't. No, she didn't. I made that up. I think I heard Ryan say that, and I just adopted it.

[B]

His presence when he's not there, it's ubiquitous.

[A]

It's always with us.

[B]

I don't know what Macy. I don't think I ever just. I don't think I ever thought really hard about what. What race Macy was now. Doty white lady to her core, Annoying to her core. Dodie is, long and hard, the whitest girl I ever seen in my life.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

In all of the. And I mean that in a bad way.

[A]

I do. Derogatory.

[B]

Derogatory. She was inseparable. I don't think she was a good friend.

[A]

She was a bad friend. She was actively a bad friend. One of the episodes I watched over here for this show was there's an episode where Courtney and Ginger are getting close. They're becoming, like, besties because they have some type of shared duty. It's like they're both hall monitor or something. Something. You know, whatever. It's school, and they both have to be that at the same time. And so they're getting close. Courtney's best friend Miranda, the black girl, feels threatened by them getting close, so she goes over to Dodie, and she's like, the. Ginger and Courtney are getting close. Looks like you lost your best friend. Yeah, it feels like you lost your best friend status. What's up with that? And Daddy's like, no, I've been Ginger's best friend since since before kindergarten. And Miranda's like, well, it doesn't look like it. You know, looks like her. It looks like you're losing your best friend status. Like, waiting for Dodie to spill some type of usable blackmail material so that Miranda can get her best friend Courtney back. Can use it against Ginger to get her best friend back. Of course Dodie does it. Dodie's dumbass is like, no, because does Courtney know Ginger's deepest, darkest secret? I don't think so. And Miranda's like, well, what is it? And she's like, she must not know about her super hairy red legs.

[B]

Red hairy legs.

[A]

And her mom won't let her shave. And she's like. Miranda's like, I have what I need to go about my business. Then she blackmails Ginger.

[B]

Yeah, a big mouth.

[A]

A big mouth. Literally and figuratively.

[B]

You have a problem.

[A]

This.

[B]

There was an episode that explained Dodie to me. And it's going to sound hypocritical for me, the journalist, to say, but I used to have a big mouth as a journalist, and I learned. People grow up. People learn. There was a scene where she did the morning announcement, and she was like, I am the journalist of the school. It is important to me that I report the news. And it was like, the school people. There was, like, a lice outbreak at the school. So she was, like, trying to figure out who had lice so she could report it over the, like, morning announcement.

[A]

I do remember this.

[B]

Girl, shut the hell up. Why are you trying to tell on people who got like. Like, that is a medical condition. Baby, are you okay? And she was like, it's my duty to report the news. And it was just like, you're annoying. Like, you're not a fun person. You're really irritating. And it's like, stop it. Be embarrassed. I wasn't ever that damn deep. But I do remember, like, in becoming a reporter, I do think there was a switch in my brain that had to go like, oh, you don't have to care about breaking news more than you do about actual human beings. Don't get your ass cussed out. Trying to.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I very quickly was like, oh, girl, you know what I mean? Like, yes, we're not. I'm not reporting on the White House, okay? If the people don't. If the news don't break, the news I break. I have to move for it. Like, I'm not gonna get. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Seem to learn that Jody didn't learn.

[B]

That Dirty Dodie was still in middle school, to be fair. But Dodie hadn't learned that. But I feel like watching that episode made it click for me that, oh, she's just nosy and she's a busy body. And so when she was telling Ginger's business or doing like, that, I was like, oh, that's just. Do. Like, that's. She wouldn't be my friend. But that is just Dodie. And that's how do. Is. There was an episode where, like, Darren and Ginger got together, they were dating, they were having a rough patch. Darren starts being interested in an older black girl. Dodie watches him be interested in the older black girl. The black girl is asking Dodie about Darren. Like, girl, tell me about him. Like, I think he fine as hell. Like, Which Dodie's like, oh, Dodie isn't immediately like, back the up. That's my best friend's man. Dodie is like, well, she's one of the cheerleaders and I am trying to get on the pep team. And she frames it as like, I don't want to hurt Ginger's. I can't tell Ginger that and break her heart. But it's very clearly that she also doesn't want to, like, get out of the great graces of the pep team. Oh, my God, I can't mess with that. She eventually tells Darren that he needs to. To tell Ginger, but, like, going a whole 30 minute episode, 23 minute, however long these episodes are. And you ain't told your best friend that somebody is trying to get her, man. I can't get behind that type of friendship.

[A]

Oh, my God. I didn't know she was that bad.

[B]

I would have cartwheel down the hallway to tell my best friend, like, let me tell you something. You see that older senior? Why is she up here trying to talk to your freshman boyfriend? She's a loser. Why? Why? She like, I would literally be like, girl, heads up.

[A]

Like, yes, as. As any good friend.

[B]

And I would have told the girl, like, hey, he has a. Do this information what you want. If you want to keep pursuing it, I can't make you not. But, like, he has a girlfriend.

[A]

He has a girlfriend and she just happened to be my best.

[B]

My best friend.

[A]

And we will jump you.

[B]

And I'm not telling you about they rough patch. They're having a good night. They love each other very deeply.

[A]

Why were they in a rough patch? Do you remember?

[B]

I can't remember.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I. Oh, oh. Because he was into football. He was becoming. His brother was a football player. He was getting into football. She was like, football is dumb. I don't want to go to your football games. And she was trying to start a band.

[A]

So they were just.

[B]

They were teenagers. They were having.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It wasn't anything egregious.

[A]

It was just like, yeah, regular teenage stuff.

[B]

I want to go to band practice. I don't want to come to your football games.

[A]

Before we move into, like, fun plot points of the show, including Ginger and Darren dating. Can we guess the zodiac sign of each character?

[B]

I'll let you lead.

[A]

You don't wanna. You don't. You don't want to lead? Okay. I can't even think about Ginger. Ginger. If I had to think, what zodiac sign is Ginger?

[B]

She might be one of my people. I feel she could be one of my people.

[A]

She. I do feel she could be one of you. And I have a few. I have a few guesses. I kind of am getting Pisces because Pisces or Cancer. Even like, like one of the water signs. That is not Scorpio. Because she's just like soft. She's a soft, sweet, sensitive seeming girl. Very soft spoken in her actual voice. You know, like everything's just like a little bit soft. Cancers have a little bit more bite though. So I wouldn't even give her that one. I would go Pisces or Libra. Because she loves to write in that journal. And Libras are air signs. Air signs, Love. A communication, a writing, a speaking. Mom.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I'm like, I don't like journaling, writing, writing, speaking. You. You write.

[B]

Understood. Never mind.

[A]

Okay, so I will put Ginger. Libra or Pisces. Darren. I would put Darren. Darren feels rather loyal to me. He doesn't seem super full of himself. I would give him Taurus.

[B]

Okay, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. I can see that.

[A]

Dodie's dumb ass. What would I give Dodi? She's just messy. I'm trying to think. There's Gemini. Cancer. Definitely not a Leo. Virgo. Definitely not. Way too messy to be a Virgo. Libra. Put a pin in it. We'll come back to it. For those of you wondering what's after Libra. Scorpio def. Well, she might be a Scorpio. She could be a Scorpio. Okay, but she's a little bit. She don't have enough mystery to be a Scorpio. No. No magnetism. No mystery there. What's after that? Sag. Definitely not Sag. Definitely not Capricorn. Definitely not Aquarius. Yeah, we. And then we back to Pisces and then back to Aries. The only one I stopped at Capricorn. What I stopped at was Libra. The only thing I stopped there was Libra.

[B]

I don't know that he's not getting a giving Libra in any capacity.

[A]

I don't know what she gives though. To give sucky.

[B]

I don't actually just gives. Get the.

[A]

Hello.

[B]

You're getting on my nerves.

[A]

Right, yeah. Though to give sucky. Macy. Macy really just be trying to stay out the way, stay out of trouble. She just want to perform in her little seal suit or whatever the hell that was about. Breathe out of her mouth and call it a day. She asthmatic is her sign.

[B]

Ginger friend group was a little.

[A]

You know what I mean? Yeah, they were Macy Minwell.

[B]

She was a Loyal, good friend, but good Lord. And then Dodie was just. I mean, Jesus Christ.

[A]

Dodie was struggling. Let me see. The Aries Taurus Gemini. Cancer. It could be a cancer again, Leo. No. Yeah, it's giving cancer to me. I'm gonna go ahead and give and give Jody cancer. I mean, give. Give Macy cancer. Okay. And then Courtney. Oh, Courtney's a Leo. We can leave it there. Courtney is a Leo. She thinks she's the main character. As Miranda is a Scorpio. Miranda is a vindictive, manipulative, mean, fairness, evil Scorpio. Carl is an Aquarius because he's weird. As weird as absolute, but also really smart. Really smart, but very strange, very niche interest, kind of scary Aquarius. He's also wordy if I speak. Hello, if I speak. Hoodsy is a follower. Hoodsy is like a follower. He doesn't need to be the center of attention at all. I think he might also be. No, an Aquarius is not really going to be a follower either. But they are more communal than they.

[B]

Are because, see, my thing about. Yeah, because I was about to say queries don't give, like, cult leader to me in the way that Carl does give. I could like the cult.

[A]

He might be a Gemini. Carl also might be a Gemini because.

[B]

He also, like, I think. I think he has a lot of Aquarius like qualities to him. But the cult leader of it all doesn't give Aquarius.

[A]

It might be. It might be the difference that gives your people. That might be a Gemini. Yeah, Carl might be a Gemini. I could definitely see Carl being a Gemini. Yeah. He has his really specific knowledge about, like, just depth, deep knowledge about random. Where it's like, why do you. What, what, what is happening? He always doing something weird. Yeah, he might be a Gemini and Hoodsy might be an Aquarius. My only issue is Hoodsie would have more issue with Carl trying to boss.

[B]

Him around all the time if he was an Aquarius.

[A]

He's just weird, though. They're both weird hoods.

[B]

He do whatever that man say. It's not giving.

[A]

I hate that for him. It's not Capricorn. It's not Virgo. Yeah, I don't know what. I don't know what that. That one is. He's a strange one. Maybe. Maybe Pisces. I can see Pisces for him too.

[B]

I can see Pisces.

[A]

I can see Pisces for him too. Yeah, I think. Oh, and then Lois. Oh, my God. Lois also kind of gives me Leo, but she also kind of gives me Capricorn. I can get Capricorn. Capricorns are like hard workers, like workhorses. Like, a Capricorn is going to work. They're going to make their money. Lois be sitting in that foot bath with her corn. Her corn's out. She'd be tired after them shifts. Okay? And she don't want to deal with Carl. She. She'll deal with Ginger, you know, I mean, she trying to make it work, but she was a little bit too poor to be a Capricorn. Capricorns don't play poverty at all.

[B]

God forbid a lady have two kids. No help.

[A]

Capricorn doesn't play poverty at all. Wonderful is a podcast where we talk about things we like that's hard to sell in a promo like this. So we've enlisted the help of piano rock superstar Billy Joel to tell you about some of the topics we've covered. Take It Away, Real Billy Joel, Diddy Rock Spin on Lake Sign. Where's the And Shy of Circle Time, Sega Drinkhouse, Caesar Salad, Tower of Annoy, Keep Me Upping Time Capsules, Wayne's World, Cheese Pulls, Wallace Steven Stonkey Kong, Fun Size, Almond Joy. They didn't start the podcast. Except that's not true. They did in 22. They didn't start the podcast. No, they actually did. That was, in fact, a film. Listen to Wonderful every Week, Wednesday on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, Real Billy Joel. No problem, Griffin. What's more action packed than prestige television?

[B]

With more continuity than comic books and.

[A]

More reality than reality television? It's professional wrestling. And to better understand wrestling is the ultimate form of entertainment, you need the Tights and fights podcast.

[B]

This is the perfect wrestling show with a lot of love, a lack of toxic masculinity, and just the right amount of butts, cats and spandex. Listen to Tights and Fights every Saturday on Maximum Fun.

[A]

Why do you think black audiences seem to gravitate toward as told Wettinger?

[B]

I don't know. I mean, I think she was a like. Again, I'm always, like, highlighting the single moms in, like shows, but she was a single mom character. Lois was a single mom character in a way that I've personally related to as a, like, young kid. She loved her kids a lot. She worked really hard. She clearly was struggling a little bit.

[A]

But she never was like, two jobs, loves her kids.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? So she was a survivor, you know, another black woman. And you can't tell me otherwise. Reba, a black woman yeah, yeah. So I think I really liked that. But I also just found Ginger to be relatable. And I will say I found the structure of their school to be similar to mine. Like, Courtney and Ginger's relationship reminded me of what my school was like. I grew up at a school where, like, everybody kind of went to elementary, middle, and high school together. I joined the group during, like, the middle school time, but, like, I knew everybody since the time I was in sixth grade. You know what I mean? And so, like, there were popular people at my school, but we were all friends. We all, like, got. You know what I mean? Like, there was also, like, it wasn't as cliquish as TV made high school scene where it was like, popular kids don't talk to the other people and the basketball people don't talk to the dude. Like, it was very much a lot of synergy and movement throughout different, like, social groups and, like, cliques in my high school. And so I think Courtney and Ginger's friendship made a lot of sense to me because while she was obviously more popular than Ginger, she still hung out with Ginger, and it wasn't, like, weird. And I think that to me felt very, like, familiar to my school structure.

[A]

For sure. I get that. And similarly. Yeah, same. Did I ever have popular kids in my school? I'm gonna.

[B]

You don't feel like you have popular kids? I thought we had kids who were, like, well known and, like, yeah, I would say popular in the traditional sense, but, like, not unattainable or not, like. You know what I mean? Like, I don't give a damn that she play on that damn basketball team.

[A]

Okay. No, that's. That's fair. Especially definitely didn't have them.

[B]

And we also had folks who, like, were very moneyed, you know what I mean? Like, who had, like, hella money, definitely. Okay, are you gonna give me a ride home or not in your new Mustang?

[A]

Like, I actually don't care about, you know.

[B]

Yeah, it was folks who came from money. It was folks who were popular, maybe because they were, like, into sports or what have you, but it wasn't. Like, it wasn't so cliqueish that you didn't hang out with. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's super real. I think what. What feels like it differed between my middle school and Ginger's middle school was genuinely how childish they seemed a lot, you know, like, that I would have guessed that they were in elementary school. Ginger, Dodie, and maybe the fifth grade at most, you know, like, definitely giving fifth grade like, but yeah, by the time I was sixth, seventh, eighth grade, I was more developed in who I was as a person than they seem to be.

[B]

I wonder if it would have been a different show if we had focused more on Courtney Miranda.

[A]

But I do think, like, they seem.

[B]

Like middle schoolers because I do think, like, high schoolers. There are key. I think it was because they were nerds. There were kids in sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade who were a little more childish or weren't as, like, you know what I mean? They weren't as into certain things or what have you. Like, I do think that is a thing. And I think it probably would have been a completely different show if the show was about even daring because Darren is into, like, sports. Yeah, Like, I think it would have been a different show if it was about different characters, but because it was about those three, it was.

[A]

That's super fair. And. And on the topic of Darren, we could talk about desirability, politics, lookism, and the social hierarchy among students, which we kind of touched on a little bit. But Darren getting his headgear off was such a big thing. When he went from, like, being like, a nerd with headgear and braces that, like, nobody's really paying attention to, and then he gets a hair headgear off, and he's like an athlete who's now in the dating pool and older senior girls are paying attention to him, and, you know, that type of thing that felt very true to really middle. That did feel very true to middle in high school.

[B]

I can't think about a single person that was. I don't want to say undesirable, but that was like, I wasn't into you in middle school that all of a sudden you popped out in high school and I was looking at you differently.

[A]

Really?

[B]

No.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

I think the people that I thought were cute in high school were not. Not cute in middle school.

[A]

They.

[B]

I might not have liked talk to them as much, or maybe they got more developed because puberty, like, things like that. But they looked fundamentally the same.

[A]

It feels like there was, like, a huge puberty that smacked many boys, really, between middle school and high school. Yes. There was this one boy that I knew since kindergarten and we went to kindergarten together and middle school and high school together, but not elementary school, not the rest of elementary school, just kindergarten. And I remember seeing him again in middle school and being, like, ill, and I could tell that he had a crush on me, you know, like, he was always trying to just, like, hang out, whatever. I'm Like, I don't like, like, get away. I don't like you. When we got to high school, you.

[B]

Were like, he looked different.

[A]

That man grew a jawline. That man was tall as hell. He. I was like, whoa. And then he didn't pay me time of day because I didn't pay him the time before.

[B]

He was sorry, babes. Get to the back of the line.

[A]

He did.

[B]

He did. Yeah. I mean, I think probably the changes were more drastic for the girls at my school than they were for the guys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I also. This also just might be the pettiness in me. I'm not falling over you. I know what you looked like in sixth grade.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I never forgot. Yeah. Like, I was not like, I know when you used to be the class clown. I'm happy that you have had your come up.

[A]

The north remembers in the North. Okay.

[B]

The north members. So I think also maybe because I knew and I like, hung out with. These are like my friends. We grew up together. Like, I think it was hard for me to like, have a complete mind shift about certain people because it's like.

[A]

You know. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Deeper than that. That surface level now that you cute. Like, I know you.

[B]

Yeah. You look cute.

[A]

I know. Yeah. I can still see the ugly behind the face. Yes, I understand that. No, I do get that other people that I feel like not other people, but I guess other characters that struggle with desirability and stuff. Obviously Ginger, the main character. Right. I think I remember an episode where she wanted to shave her legs because they were making. Miranda has started making fun of her hairy legs and that was just such a big thing. Do you remember the first time you shaved your legs at all? Do you remember the first time you shaved your armpits? Do you remember the first time you plucked your eyebrows? You remember the first time you did anything like that? You don't.

[B]

You do.

[A]

I remember the first time that I plucked my eyebrows for sure. Yeah. And it was around yourself. My mom did it. My mom plugged my eyebrows for the first time and she made them. First of all, I have probably the thickest eyebrows in the world. Naturally, they are insane. Like, actual width wise, the width of them is nuts. And they're really coarse and really curly. I laminate my eyebrows.

[B]

You have taught me many things about. Because I thought you was exaggerated. But you do have.

[A]

Course they're coarse and they are wide. They take up a lot of my face when I don't do them. Anyway, so my mom plugged in for the first time and she made Them just, like, thin. And I remember thinking, oh, I'm eating. I am eating down. Mind you, the year 2007, so times were different. What was cute in an Eyebrow in 2007 is not cute in Eyebrow in 2025. I definitely had the sperm brown, where it was like bulbous and round at the tip, the front tip. And then it just got tiny, just so thin going from there. It looked horrible. Oh, no. Anyways, I remember I. I thought it was cute. I really thought.

[B]

I don't remember doing any of that. I don't remember shaving for the first time. I don't remember shaving my under. Actually, this is what I remember. So I remember being in the sixth grade. He was one of the quote unquote popular kids, but he was like one of my really good friends. And I remember being in class with him in the sixth grade and he was like, it's time for you to start shaving your armpits.

[A]

He played you.

[B]

And I was like, what? And he was like, yeah, like, we shave our arm. And I literally, like, I don't even know that it occurred to me to be embarrassed. He wasn't being like, you're musty smell. He was just like, you have hair under your armpits. And I was like, okay. And he was like, like, shave them. And I was like, oh, my God. It never occurred to me. I did. I did go shave them after that. I did. Wow. So now I do remember when I say my armpite. So I was in the sixth grade. It did not occur to me before then that I was supposed to do that.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I don't even know if he would remember that. Like, if I was to text him today and be like, oh, you know, he would be like, yes. Like, he's one of my friends. Like, it's so funny. But no, I remember it was a boy boy. And it wasn't a boy that I had a crush on. So I wasn't like, yeah, you didn't take. I wasn't like, no, I didn't give it in. Like, he said it. And I was just like, he was like, we're supposed to shave our armpit or you're supposed to shave your armpits. And I was like, for what?

[A]

Why? To do what with it, though?

[B]

In what way? I must have went and asked my mama or something and she was like, I guess, if you want to.

[A]

If you want, right? Yes. I remember shaving my mustache for the first time in middle school. Took a dead ass, took a razor to my upper lip. Shaved my mustache off. Lip hyper pigmented like a had five o' clock shadow permanently.

[B]

Of course you did.

[A]

Going forward.

[B]

Now that was me with my eyebrows. Because people used to say I had Ashanti eyebrows when I was in school. And you know that they mean it in a derogatory sideburns. I'm sorry. She said I had a shanty sideburns. And they did not mean it in a nice way. And so I used to want to shave my sideburns so bad. And my mom used to be like, there's nothing wrong with your sideburns. No, you cannot shave them. And I'd be like, people are.

[A]

I'm glad she said no. I said, I got some sideburns on me too.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I always had sideburns. So that's all I can remember. But I did not remember that until you asked me. I damn sure don't remember when I did my eyebrows for the first time or when I shaved my legs.

[A]

But yeah, it was a big deal at Lucky Junior High. I guess people was the shaving. I guess Courtney and Miranda was already shaving it or some they Were they fast.

[B]

Here you go. Trying to put labels on young girls. In what way? What do you mean?

[A]

Were they the fast tail heifers your mom warned you about?

[B]

Probably. But they didn't seem to be doing nothing that was actually fast.

[A]

They really weren't.

[B]

They would have been the ones that my mother would have come have been saying were the fast tail heifers.

[A]

They were definitely the girls. My mom was gonna say she's fast. Like be careful about hanging out with her.

[B]

Now do you remember? I remember going to my first party. Party. Like not my first like birthday party balloons kind of thing with my first like they're twerking at this party. Party. And I remember being. I was in the seventh grade.

[A]

People was twerking at parties in the seventh grade.

[B]

This the same boy? Actually I should text him because he really did form my dad.

[A]

He was doing a doozy on you, baby.

[B]

We went. He was. Had money and we went to his house in the basement. They was. And they played the same song. What was that? It was a T.I. song. Oh, get loose, let me see you get loose. They played that over and over. And they was twerking and I was like, why are they twerking?

[A]

Moving. Why are they moving their butts?

[B]

Why are they moving their butts like that? If I could have done it, maybe I wouldn't have felt, you know what I mean? Self conscious about it. But I didn't have that type of skill. So I was. I was shy. But I remember again, I remember going to my first twerk party in the seventh grade.

[A]

At seventh grade.

[B]

I can't think it was that early.

[A]

I. I wholeheartedly don't think I experienced a twerk party until junior year of high school.

[B]

Really? Yeah, I can tell you that for sure.

[A]

We had a dance called Sweethearts around Valentine's Day, and that's what, like. And it was. It was thrown by one of the sororities on campus. Did you guys have sororities in. In high school?

[B]

We had Kappa League. That was it, though.

[A]

Okay. We had a sorority called Scarabs, and it was girls, and they were. They were like, you know, I mean, like, they were girls, and they would throw sweethearts every year, and that's the first time going to Sweethearts. I remember being like, whoa, this is a party. Like, they're in here.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Drinking, smoking, throwing ass.

[B]

Now, to be fair, weren't drinking. Weren't smoking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Until high school.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But in the seventh grade, they was twerking to Get Loose by Ti and they had that song.

[A]

As the twerk.

[B]

We was in seventh grade. They probably heard it from their older siblings, Right. And just kept. It is a very good. It's. I want to see you dead. The song starts. I want to see you dance like the girls in the tip drill video. So it's a good twerk song. It's a good song.

[A]

Drill music video.

[B]

Jesus Christ. But, yeah, that was my friend. And I remember being like, wow.

[A]

Wow. Yeah.

[B]

That was more akin to, you know, who wouldn't? Ginger. Yeah. Then I was Ginger. I don't know how I got on the list.

[A]

I don't know how you got invited, child.

[B]

But again, because I was friends with people, and they'd be like, oh, Jewel, do you want to come? And I'd go, and I'd be like, why did you invite me to this?

[A]

Yeah, I don't belong.

[B]

I shouldn't have been there.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

I appreciate the vote of confidence. I should have been at home.

[A]

Very fair. I saw By Ginger also had a period episode.

[B]

I don't remember the period episode, but I remember they had an episode about sex.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

Because they were like, hey, this is a mandatory class that you have to take in order to move to the next grade. And Dodie was like, not Dodie. Macy was like, I can't take it. I'm not ready yet.

[A]

So the episode's about puberty.

[B]

Oh, was that the episode?

[A]

I'M pretty sure that's the same episode about puberty overall.

[B]

And I was like, girl, I mean, you would have thought they was gonna have her make out with somebody at the front of the class. They're gonna make you watch a video, like. And she was like, I can't do it. I can't do it. And I was like, wow.

[A]

I mean, I get it.

[B]

I was excited for stuff like that as a kid.

[A]

You were excited for the sex classes?

[B]

I was excited to talk about puberty.

[A]

Really?

[B]

You weren't?

[A]

Not particular. I mean, my mom. My mom had talked to me about it for.

[B]

Maybe it's because my mom had. And I was like, waiting for my period.

[A]

Your mom had or had not?

[B]

She had.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. And so you were, like, waiting for your period?

[B]

I was like, for my period. Sixth grade. I was 12, so, yeah, it was time for me to start shaving.

[A]

Yeah, I feel like that's rarely the normal age.

[B]

Yeah, I was 12 when I started my period. And I remember going to school and telling my friends, like, I think I started my period, and they were like, go to the bathroom and see.

[A]

I like.

[B]

And I was like, I did. I did.

[A]

That's like, you. Were you really excited about it?

[B]

I was the first person in my friend group to start her period. And I was like, I started. I was like, so ain't been happy about it, right? Been happy about it, right.

[A]

Truly.

[B]

But I was elated. I was.

[A]

Wow. I got my first period when I was 10. I was. I think it was the last moment. Fifth grade.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

I think it was the last day of fifth grade. And it almost incapacitated me. It was so incredibly painful immediately. What do you mean immediately?

[B]

Like, the first period you got was.

[A]

Yes. Like, the first. The first onset of my first blood coming out. Like, I. Something was so wrong with me. I was like, I'm about to pass out. Like, I don't know what's happening. And I didn't know. And I went to the bathroom because I thought I had to take a. Like, I was like, my stomach is killing me. I feel like I'm lightheaded, like, I'm about to pass out. Like, I don't know. And I went and wiped, and I was like, oh, like, this is my period. That's mine.

[B]

Were like that within, like a year. And then they never stopped being that painful. But, like, the first few ones were not, like, I was painful.

[A]

My first few ones were so really painful. And then it got progressively a little bit less painful as I got older.

[B]

I Used to miss school like mine used to.

[A]

Oh, you were like, you were one of those kids. Like your period was a problem.

[B]

Yeah, like I'm missing the standardized test because my period came on and I like, can't. I can't sit in the class.

[A]

That's horrible. Oh, my goodness. Okay. On Asshole by Ginger on the puberty episode, one of the storylines is Hoodsy is afraid to take showers in gym class because she doesn't want to get naked in front of the other boys. That is something. I do remember having to change for gym class. We didn't have to take showers and we didn't do that. We didn't take showers, but we did change in front of each other in the locker rooms. But it wasn't like a full change. It was like, like, okay, change it to your PE shorts and change it to your PE shirt. You know, so you're not like getting naked. You got on a bra. You have another wear, whatever. But I remember being so deeply self conscious about taking off my pants in front of other people because I went to middle school and it was predominantly white. I was a black girl with ass and hips in middle school. Again, I started my period at 10. So I went through puberty a little bit earlier than the rest of the girls. I was thicker. I had titties, like. And I remember feeling so deeply self conscious and just like, I was so big. I remember so big.

[B]

That's awful.

[A]

It was horrible. It was really, really bad. I would like.

[B]

That's so crazy.

[A]

I would like especially by my thighs and butt because I had cellulite. Because you know, as you get, you got ass, you got a little cellulite on the.

[B]

On the booty that comes with it. It does.

[A]

I would try to do everything in my power to, like, never turn around so that people could see the back of me. I was just so deeply uncomfortable.

[B]

No, I've always been self conscious. I've always been like the girl at sleepovers. I'm not changing everybody taking their damn clothes off. I will be going to the bathroom and changing. Like, I've always been like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not because. I mean, obviously I'm not voluptuous. So it wasn't because of that. I don't know what it was, but I've always been like that. But we, we didn't really change like that. I was never doing nothing PE where I needed to do too much changing out. And I damn sure went sweating. So they didn't even need to have a shower near me because what was I.

[A]

I don't know how.

[B]

They didn't ever threaten me to fail PE Because I was not doing.

[A]

I actually have no idea. The way they used to have us run a mile in the morning and then have to not. Not change, not. I mean, not shower and just go to class for the rest of the day.

[B]

I ain't never done no like that. No, I just walked around. I talked to my friends.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Bonded with my friends. Sometimes I would sit on the little weight benches.

[A]

P.E.

[B]

Yeah. Sometimes I would sit on the weight benches so that I could have conversations with my friends, but I wasn't doing anything with it.

[A]

What type of weight BS is this?

[B]

Oh, we. I did hit the volleyball a couple times.

[A]

No, I don't want to hear hit the. You hit the volleyball a couple times? This is crazy.

[B]

I didn't run to hit it, though. Like, I just kind of walked and bopped Jewel.

[A]

Don't piss me off. Don't piss me off.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't. They did. There was no need for me to shower because I wasn't doing nothing to build up no type of sweat.

[A]

Meanwhile, I'm full puberty mode, so I have a ascent. And.

[B]

And they didn't let y' all shower?

[A]

No, there was no showers. And there was no showers. No, we did not shower. We would just run a mile or. Or the 20. I don't know if y' all had the 20 minute. We would either have to run the mile or the 20. The 20 was just. You had to run for 20 minutes straight as many laps.

[B]

I'm not doing that.

[A]

And you try. You. I think you have to aim to get like six or seven laps. I don't remember. And within that 20 minute period of time, a mile was four laps. And you needed to get it under 12 minutes in order to do well. And like, that was a bad mile if you did. What do you mean, do well in order to pass the class.

[B]

I ain't never. I was a child that was left behind. This ain't never come up in my class. Needs to come and pay George Bush. Pay for your crimes, because I ain't never had to. I'm using myself. If a good mile. If I'm walking on the track, leave me alone. Don't say nothing to me.

[A]

If you walked, you was definitely not passing because you wasn't doing it in under 12 minutes. He was doing it in like.

[B]

I don't remember nobody having a watch.

[A]

In like 19 minutes if he was walking. Our coach used to stand at the same spot and he would hit that, hit that Watch. Stop.

[B]

I remember they used to make us stand on the wall and do the little squat thing. That's about all I remember.

[A]

I also learned how to juggle in P.E. that was, like, one of the things that we did. Sequoia now, because I learned how to juggle in P.E.

[B]

I don't know what I did in P.E. but I didn't do none of these.

[A]

That's insane. That's insane. Anyways, let's circle back to Miranda and the way that they had my girl be this weird, mean, malicious bully. The only black character on, as told by Ginger's only black woman. That wasn't one of the auxiliary random characters, you know? Okay. The only black girl on the show. They had her be really mean and really nasty. So nasty and so, so rude. She was so rude. So nasty and so so ruse. And it didn't even feel like her and Courtney would be friends. And I didn't like she was Courtney's little sidekick either.

[B]

Yeah, I like that. Like, you doing too much of what this girl say, and I don't like that at all.

[A]

Like, tighten up. And she never that pressed about you as that as you are about her blonde, rich, white ass.

[B]

My mama was never gonna go for that. You following a little girl around?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She asked you to do it and you did it?

[A]

Yeah, I am.

[B]

Stand up. My mama would have a problem with that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. No, I was. My mom would hear me talking to my friends outside, and she would call me in the house, and she'd be like, you can't talk to them like that.

[B]

I don't get this. Like, why were you talking to people crazy?

[A]

I was just bossy. I wasn't even talking to them crazy. I was just telling them what to do.

[B]

You was talking to them crazy? He was telling them what to do. You was Courtney.

[A]

And my mom. And my mom was like, you cannot stop. You. You sound so bossy. When I hear you, I'm like, cause I'm a boss. Because boss said, I'm the first. In a minute. I switched up the key to the drum. That's right. Yeah. So y' all could never identify with. I was never about to be. Huh?

[B]

I see. My principal used to come out during the pepper. I listed that song.

[A]

I know you're freaking lying.

[B]

I swear to God. She used to come out unserious people.

[A]

Because you perpetually in school, you have to be some somewhat silly somewhat. You know what I mean? Like, you signed up to permanently exist in a school with children.

[B]

I hate these damn kids, but I Kind of gotta like them because they are my kids. I gotta seriously like they trying my best, but also I believe the children are the future. Yeah. I'm coming out of Boston and you.

[A]

Get to be a little silly yourself. Right. You get to come out to Bossy at the pep rally and everybody hyping you up because they love that you're like the cool teachers coming out to Bossy. That's fun. That's cute. But yeah, that was me. I could never identify with Miranda's weird ass.

[B]

Who did you identify with the most?

[A]

When I saw by Ginger. I guess Ginger as all of us, you know, we all think we're the protagonist. We all see ourselves in the. In the nice girl. I'm Ginger. I wasn't. I was never rich.

[B]

I don't think you rich. I think you have Courtney's energy.

[A]

I definitely thought I was a main character. I will say especially. I mean, you were an only child as well, but like, especially I was a child, baby. I thought I was the center of every universe around me.

[B]

That's so interesting. I mean, I'm not denying that I have only child energy in a lot of ways and center of attention, because I'm sure I do. But I don't think I had it like that.

[A]

I did. I definitely did. I just assumed. Yeah. The world would bend to my will.

[B]

Like there's a. There is a part of Ginger. I think what I liked about Ginger is that Ginger didn't want to be the center of attention. Was actually kind of mortified at the thought of being the center of attention.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I identify with. With that more than I do being the center of attention.

[A]

No, that's super fair. I also didn't want to be the center of attention. To be clear, I was not. I didn't like a lot of attention. I was rather introverted kid. And also I fully expected the world to revolve around me. So if I said, hey, I'm hungry, I expected to get some food soon. You know what I mean? It wasn't. It never occurred to me that there was a different way to exist because that was what my reality was. There was never. There wasn't a time. You know what I mean? So, like, I didn't love attention. I didn't like kids that much. I liked adults. I didn't really.

[B]

I definitely didn't like that much, you.

[A]

Know, but that's just when you grow.

[B]

Up the only child, you grow up around adults.

[A]

Around adults, and you talk like an adult. And so other kids kind of think you're a little bit weirder. They're like, oh, okay, she's not so fun. And I was bossy on top of it, you know, it was just like a lot. It was a lot going on. So, yes, I did identify with Ginger. I could see you being Ginger for sure. I can see you being Macy. I'm joking. I'm joking.

[B]

I wasn't that damn bad.

[A]

It's giving Macy.

[B]

No, I definitely feel like Ginger. Even Dodie, to an extent. Like, I was never that damn bad or that damn annoying, but a little nosy. But Dodie. Yeah, they always took it too far with Dodie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Macy. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, it was giving Macy. Side note. What did you think of Ginger and Darren's coupling? I feel like an interracial relationship in 2000, between 2000, 2004 and a kid show. I liked it felt before it's time or. I'm surprised that it actually, like, made it onto air.

[B]

I am, too. I mean, I. They do end up being in game, but I said, now he left Ginger for a black girl.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

You know what I mean, Ricky? Dorky. But. Yeah, but I did. I liked them as a couple. I. I guess I liked them because they were best friends the whole series.

[A]

Yes, I did like that.

[B]

And they were neighbors and they clearly, like, had this, like, mutual, like, just genuine friendship.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's why I liked them as a couple. Like, I thought that was a really cute coupling. And there was a. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[A]

And she was like. He would, like, come in through her window, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. He would always come in through her window to talk to her. But there. So essentially there's a moment where he comes in through the window and he doesn't have the headgear on anymore.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And she's like, who the hell. And he's like, hey, Ginger. And then she goes to bed. I don't know. I think it's the same episode. She goes to sleep and she dreams about him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think she has a crush. And so she starts acting different. And he's like, why are you acting.

[A]

Like, why are you so weird?

[B]

Why are we not inviting Dodie and Macy to the movies with us? Like, what's going. You know what I mean? Like, he's trying to figure out what's going on, and she's trying to explore whether or not she has feelings for him or not. And I don't know. I just really like that.

[A]

And that's some. You couldn't see him when he. What? What? Mike Jones Say back then, they didn't hear it. I'm hot hoes all on me.

[B]

Yes. I did not want you when you had hair here at Garon. Sorry.

[A]

That's crazy. I'm the same, you know? I mean, it's me. At the end of the day, I'm the same.

[B]

You look different. You do look different. You know what I mean? Okay. I understand this intimate. I do think it's fair that I do look at you a little differently because you don't have metal circles.

[A]

That's crazy. Now you got a crush. Ain't that about it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Also, what causes a kid to get headgear? Did you ever see a kid with headgear when you were a child?

[B]

Not anywhere. That was not television.

[A]

Right. I never saw a kid without. I never even saw a kid with headgear on live action television. I remember seeing it in Finding Nemo, Obviously, Darren from this show, but I can't think of any live action series where they actually put a kid in headgear. What was headgear supposed to be about?

[B]

I thought Darren's was about braces, but I'm like, why was your teeth that bad that you needed to have a metal circle around your head? I don't understand what that has to do with your head and with your teeth.

[A]

One of my ex boyfriends was supposed to get headgear because he had an underbite, and so he was supposed to get his jaw broken to fix the underbite.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

And then.

[B]

Now it's making sense.

[A]

And then get headgear to make sure that that stayed in place.

[B]

Because you have to secure the jaws.

[A]

Right. He had to secure the jaw, but he ended up not getting it because he thought that it was egregious that they were trying to get.

[B]

I agree. I would rather just have an underbite.

[A]

That he did and does to this day still have that underbite.

[B]

I want braces.

[A]

Well, you know what?

[B]

Braces. Well, you know, I want veneers. I'm joking. I'm not joking, but I'm joking. I want perfect teeth. I'm not going to get veneers because obvious reasons.

[A]

Because we bullied you out of it.

[B]

Because y' all bullied me out of it and y' all told me that I was gonna embarrass myself and have chiclets for teeth.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This not about y'.

[A]

All. Okay.

[B]

The second thing is that I never had braces because I always looked so young that I never wanted to get braces because I knew it would make Me. Look. And then I'm like. I've been, like, terrified of Invisalign, because I don't know. I. I've heard they give you really bad headaches, and I already get headaches because you're. You're moving your teeth at a rapid pace. Like, of course, you can do it slower.

[A]

I'm fairly certain. Invisalign, you can do it slower. Just most people want to do the shortest.

[B]

Maybe you can. Maybe. Anyway, so I've, like, Even as I've gotten older, I'm like, should I get braces? And I'm like, no, girl. Like, I. I've thought about it, but I just. The whole wiring.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Teeth thing.

[A]

Wow. Almost everybody I know had braces.

[B]

I've never had braces.

[A]

Not Garrick, but I never. Well, you know what? I think it's very California thing. Except for Gary, but I think it's a very.

[B]

No, a lot of my friends in Atlanta had braces.

[A]

Really? Because now I'm trying to think of my other friends. Like, I don't think Ryan ever had braces. I know you didn't have braces.

[B]

I also sucked my thumb and then my finger as a kid. Oh.

[A]

And that will shift your teeth for sure.

[B]

And I sucked it for a embarrassingly long time. Did you.

[A]

How old were you when you subbed?

[B]

I don't remember, but I was way too damn old. I know that for sure. Yeah, I. I didn't, like, when I was a baby. Baby, like, infant. I did it, like, 24 7.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then as I got older, like, maybe kindergarten age. Ish. Like, I think I only did it to, like, go to sleep kind of thing.

[A]

Like a soothing thing. Yeah.

[B]

But I would suck my finger and pick my belly button. It was so weird.

[A]

Like this.

[B]

Like this. Well, so my mom put. She was trying to get me to stop sucking my thumb, so she tied them. She tied them up. And then I just. She, like, literally moved down my fingers, and then I, like, would switch fingers, and she stopped, and I settled on this one. Wow. And I would suck my. Like, they're. I've seen pictures of me, and you can see how I've got my finger in my mouth.

[A]

Wow. Kids are so interesting.

[B]

Like, what? Like, and I'm like. I'm also like, what were you being soothed from? You did not. What was going on in your life that you needed comfort.

[A]

Right. I mean, I guess it makes sense because every kid likes a pacifier. Right? That's sucking.

[B]

I never.

[A]

Like, the pacifier seems to be, like, a normal Thing that kid. And if you don't wing your kid off the pacifier, then I guess you just don't.

[B]

Or, you know, some people start sucking their thumbs in or sucking their, like tongues and stuff like that. They start in the womb. A lot of that is like womb.

[A]

Really? I did not know that. Oh my God. Humans are so weak.

[B]

I always wonder. I don't know for sure, but I always wonder if I was stuck in my thumb like. Like in the way. Yeah.

[A]

Humans are so weird, isn't it?

[B]

Like, what the hell?

[A]

Yeah, like, what the heck is that about? I didn't stop sleeping with my parents for. Until I was like. I want to say maybe like eight.

[B]

I also slept in my mama bed for a long time too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Right between my parents.

[B]

They didn't care.

[A]

So the reason why I stopped, because my dad told my mom, hey.

[B]

Knock it off.

[A]

So she does have. She. At some point she, you know, have to start sleeping in her own bed.

[B]

He let it go on far longer than you know. He was very nice. He was very kind.

[A]

A 12 hour a day worker. Like a manual labor carpenter.

[B]

He was very.

[A]

Can't even be comfortable on his own. It was a queen size bed. It wasn't big enough for. For three. Me and Garrick don't even sleep in a queen size bed right now because it's too small. Neither of us are big people.

[B]

Y' all got a king.

[A]

We have a king. Can I. Can I imagine having. I remember when we first started sleeping the same bed together and we. I had a queen at that point and I was like, this would never work. Having an eight year old.

[B]

No.

[A]

Between you. That's insane. And then when. And then when they made me start sleeping in my bed, I would always pull the. I had a bad dream. I would come in there crying. I had a bad dream.

[B]

I would climb into my door. Yes. Do you need anything?

[A]

You can't come in here, right?

[B]

Go back to bed.

[A]

No, no. Can we. Okay. Should we rank the characters? Yes, let's actually rank the characters. I can go first if you need. Go ahead. Okay. My favorite character from as twelve by Ginger. I actually don't really like any of these characters, but if I think I had to rank them, it's Lois. I actually really do like Lois. So Lois is my number one. I'm gonna say Macy is my number two just because she was loyal and like she didn't. She didn't play Dodie's game. She was my number two. Darren is my number three because, you know, black to black. I gotta put my man's in my top three. And I would have had a crush on him as a child if I was. You know what I mean? If I was gender, I too would have had a crush on. On Darren. So I understand. Okay. Ginger would be my number four. Courtney would probably be my number five. Carl would be my number six. Miranda would be my number seven. And then who do we have after that?

[B]

Hoodsie.

[A]

That's last. Yeah, Hoodie's last. And then Dodie is after that. Dodie is in hell. Hussy's last. And Dodie is in hell.

[B]

Hoodie and the Dody hood. See, and Dodie being siblings and both being they.

[A]

Mama did not raise them right. They're trash. They are trash. The Bishops were ass. So. Yeah. You keep the whole family. Throw the whole family away. I know the mom is trash. I know she.

[B]

The thing is, I agree.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I know she's a white woman. That is just trash.

[B]

Yeah. That's the sad part is I don't disagree with you. I think you're right.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Is that the list? Is that your list as well?

[B]

No, I know you put Ginger number one as my number one. Then I probably have Lois. Then I probably have Darren. Then I'd have Courtney. Then I probably have Miranda.

[A]

Okay, that's fair. Yeah, I put her a little low, but that's fine.

[B]

No, then I. I'm sorry. After Courtney, I would put Carl. Then I would put Miranda.

[A]

Oh, you did like Carl.

[B]

I like Carl. So I put Carl. Then I put Miranda. And then it be Macy.

[A]

Doty. Doty in hell. Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The last three would just be floating somewhere at the bottom.

[A]

They can go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Don't with them at all. I think that's it for the episode today. For those of you who want to check us out on YouTube, you can watch us at Black People Love Paramore. Just search it up. The link will be in the show notes. If you want to talk to me on social media at all, you can hit us up at BPLP pod. I see. I'll be commenting on YouTube. I like it. Keep. Keep commenting on the YouTubes. I really do appreciate it if you have comments or suggestion. Oh my God. Somebody sent me the nicest email. Just like talking about the show and how like it's like good and saying their thoughts on the last episode. It was just really, really nice.

[B]

What was that episode that y' all did?

[A]

What episode was it that they were talking to me about? It wasn't twitches. It was.

[B]

I was trying to see if it was twitches. Okay.

[A]

No, it was a different episode that they messaged about. I don't remember which episode it was, but it was really nice to receive that email.

[B]

We love good feedback. Do more of that.

[A]

I just love any type of talking to me. You know what I mean? Like, talk to me about it. You listen to it. Let me know. And. Oh, they told me, like, thoughts about changing the name of the podcast and just, like, stuff about stuff like that. And that was just really meaningful to me. So if you have any thoughts that you would like to share with me.

[B]

Not meaningful.

[A]

Email means a lot. It can if you have negative thoughts. I'm open to all feedback, personally. Me, personally, I'm open all feedback. But it was really nice. It means a lot to me. I responded to the email. I'll always respond to the emails. If you're just talking to me about, you know, you can email at black people love hair more Gmail dot com. Somebody played though in the email. I'm gonna leave it there. I'm not even gonna give y' all no ideas, but somebody playing in my email and stop it again.

[B]

Maybe it's because as a journalist, I'd be getting emails that's like, black die.

[A]

Stop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you really?

[B]

Absolutely. I get all kinds of. You're a dumb black. That's why you should have never. I can't even believe they would platform somebody as dumb as you.

[A]

You.

[B]

Yeah. And I'll cush you back out. So be careful.

[A]

No, that's insane.

[B]

Don't come in my inbox. And I also feel like to have Googled me, found my email address, typed up this email and hit send. I don't want that type of love. Don't get cussed out. I'm not a Gemini and I don't want to hear it.

[A]

It's crazy. I don't. I don't even be getting cussed out like that.

[B]

You don't?

[A]

Not really. And I'll be saying wild.

[B]

The funny thing is I don't even be saying nothing that. Wow. Like, the. It's not even when I'm, like, going hard. I don't ever really go that hard.

[A]

You don't?

[B]

It's not even when I'm going hard. It's usually like, I think I did one about, like, pay disparity amongst black women or something like that.

[A]

And it's like.

[B]

And I'm just like, hey, don't get cussed out.

[A]

Just know.

[B]

Get out of my inbox.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

Just. Just.

[B]

I'm not the one. And they also never remove their name. And I'm like, I'd hate to pull a Karen on you.

[A]

Oh, now that I will do. Somebody did leave me a message that wasn't mean, but I thought was completely unwarranted and just, like, ridiculous. I found their ad.

[B]

Hey, Joey.

[A]

I found their address and I had to ask. Garrick. I said now, Garrick. I found their first, last name and their address.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Am I in the wrong if I message them, hey, so and so at the insert address here. Thank you so much for your message. Keep it.

[B]

Yeah, I. I don't. Don't. Don't play them to me. And I'm not one of those people. Sometimes, like, reporters will screenshot like hate mail and they'll blur out the name. I'm not blurring out the name.

[A]

I'm not. Why would I do that? You sent it. What's your name? Right. You said it with your name. Right. So why would I blur it out? So you didn't blur it out.

[B]

You can't use your platform to. I can't use my platform for what?

[A]

I want to use my platform bench. Know that.

[B]

So anyway, no hate mail. Thank you so much anyways.

[A]

Yeah, no hate mail. Nobody really sends that anyways. But I do appreciate y' all anyways. That's it. Okay, bye, y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

See y' all next time.