Black Romance

Summary

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Black People Love Paramore – "Black Romance"

Host: Sequoia Holmes with Jewel Wicker

Date: May 29, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode spotlights Black romance—especially its portrayal in media—from TV shows to novels, with a humorous yet heartfelt look at how Black love stories are rarely centered, how they’re depicted when they are, and why that visibility matters. The conversation is anchored by reactions to Netflix’s “Forever,” shoutouts to romance novels and favorite series, and honest reflections on what healthy (and messy) Black love looks like on screen. Sequoia and Jewel trade personal stories, critical takes, and lots of laughs about everything from teen drama fatigue to why “Insecure” was almost too real to watch.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking Down “Forever” (Netflix)

• Initial Thoughts

  • Sequoia binged “Forever” and admits it started slow:

    “It started off… I wasn’t in love with the writing up front, but I think that was just because they were having to do exposition.” (05:00)

  • Jewel is not bothered by the writing, but shares her pet peeves with teen drama:

    “I don’t think I like teenagers, because the ping pong back and forth… Block them or don’t, unblock them or don’t.” (05:48)

  • Both agree the show nails the seriousness and drama of teen love:

    “It feels like they’re going through a lot for a little first love… It feels serious when you in it.” (06:06)

• Casting & Parental Roles

  • Love seeing Wood Harris as a gentle, nurturing dad instead of a drug dealer:

    “To see him just be a successful, loving, supportive husband and dad. Yes, it really did.” (07:01)

  • Touches on the authentic LA representation through places and food (especially the fictional and real-life restaurant "Linden"):

    “When we got to that part… me and Garrick stood up, screamed, it felt so good. We're like, wow, this is LA.” (09:14)

• Generational Differences in Parenting

  • The moms in “Forever” surprise the hosts with their nuanced reactions:

    “You think the parents are about to respond one way... instead, they respond a very different way—clearly more informed… I’m impressed.” (18:07)

  • Jewel loves how the show avoids old-school trauma, showing Black parents supporting young love realistically:

    “I love not teaching especially young girls that doing the best you can or love is a valid excuse… you take that from parents… friends… romantic partners…” (22:03)

• Teen vs. Adult Perspective

  • The hosts reflect humorously on how they view teens differently now:

    “I love kids up until the age of, like, 10 or 11. At that point, I do have to send you back to your mama.” (10:03)

  • Observations about changing norms (today's teens versus their own upbringing):

    “I think we had more fear in our hearts… It seemed like they could give some shits about getting in trouble.” (11:02)

2. The Value of Non-Traumatic Black First Love Stories

• Sequoia appreciates the purity and joy of first love depicted in “Forever,” without heavy trauma:

  “You relate to it… there’s no trauma within the first love portion of it.” (13:03)

• Jewel, meanwhile, is still heartbroken by first love breakups:

  “The whole point of romance is you’re supposed to stay together!” (15:42)

• They debate the realism of breakups and long break-ups vs. clean splits; both share funny personal stories about lingering exes.

3. Complex Depictions of Black Families

• Both praise the show for layered mother and grandparent relationships—something often missing in popular media.
• Key moment: A grandfather calls out the notion that “doing your best” is enough parental effort, especially for fathers.

4. Romance Novels vs Visual Media

• Despite being romance fans, both resist most romance novels for feeling “too flowery” and unrealistic:

  “It feels like the characters in a romance novel are never real enough for me… the way they speak is too flowery.” (33:31, Sequoia)

• They debate whether a romance novel needs to be “messy” or simply believable, sharing favorite authors like Kylie Reid for their character work.

5. Other Black Romance on Screen

• Insecure

  • Jewel found the series emotionally intense—sometimes too real:

    “Watching that relationship dissolve… it was just. It's a well written show is what it is… the characters really did feel like homegirls and homeboys.” (40:06)

  • Sequoia celebrated the happy ending, especially Issa and Lawrence reuniting.
  • Both call out Molly’s problematic choices in love and friendship, and how relatable (and frustrating) she could be.

• Love Life Season 2 (HBO)

  • Both hosts adore the character-driven focus, realistic love story, and the “risk” of casting William Jackson Harper (aka “Chidi” from The Good Place):

    “He wasn’t that stereotypical love interest… and I really feel like that paid off because he was such a good main character.”

  • They discuss how infuriating it is when favorite shows with Black leads—especially when the romance gets “too urban, too ethnic”—are canceled:

    “Got a little too urban, a little too ethnic in here, and we would like to keep the festivities very… white. So we are going to cancel it, actually.” (04:51, Sequoia in mock “exec” voice)

• Moonlight

  • The tenderness of Black male love, acceptance, and the power of seeing unexpected types of parents on screen.

    “…a drug dealing black man being like, I know that you’re gay and it's okay… How can we help you?… I really, really love the tenderness…” (55:12, Jewel)

6. The Significance of Dark-Skinned Representation

• Both note how “Forever” and other recent shows are centering dark-skinned Black leads, challenging the default casting of light-skinned or biracial characters as love interests or matriarchs:

  “Two unambiguously black dark-skinned people came together and had two unambiguously black dark-skinned children. Loved it.” (52:08, Sequoia)

• They critique the limiting assumptions of “revolutionary” interracial love in media written by and for non-Black people—and call for more honest (and simply joyful!) Black love stories.

7. Black Love in “This Is Us”

• Shoutout to Beth and Randall as a rare example of healthy Black marriage on network TV:

  “It wasn’t like it was a ton of Beth and Randall’s… Black couples who had like a healthy marriage, who communicated... It was really nice.” (60:56, Jewel)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On teen drama:
  “I can’t stand this. But what I will say is my favorite thing so far… Wood Harris getting to be a dad. I loved it.” – Jewel, (06:47)

• On emotional parents:
  “You think the parents are about to respond one way… instead, they respond a very different way where they’ve been reading up on childhood trauma.” – Sequoia, (18:07)

• On Black family perceptions:
  “Best thing she did was leave that man and raise me alone.” – Jewel, (23:44)

• On representation:
  “The most revolutionary thing we can do for Black love stories is have two Black people love each other… We need to see Black people love each other.” – Sequoia, (53:32)

• On “Insecure’s” realism:
  “Watching that relationship dissolve… I can’t watch this. There is a train wreck ahead and I can’t watch.” – Jewel, (40:06)

• On Book vs. TV Romances:
  “I want the dream man to be believable. Don’t speak like that.” – Jewel (36:29)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:00–03:00] – Housekeeping; Intro to Black Romance, shoutouts to favorite novels and shows
• [05:00–14:00] – Deep dive into “Forever”; teen drama, writing, and acting
• [18:00–26:00] – Parenting styles, generational changes, family dynamics
• [33:00–38:00] – Romance novels: what works and what’s exasperating
• [38:00–45:00] – “Insecure” and the representation of realistic, sometimes uncomfortable relationships
• [46:54–54:00] – “Love Life” Season 2, casting, subverting expectations of what Black romance looks like on screen
• [54:36–56:20] – “Moonlight” as queer Black romance; tender parenting
• [60:25–61:41] – “This Is Us” and Beth/Randall as Black love on network TV
• [Throughout] – Candid asides, personal stories, critiques, and laugh-out-loud moments

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, witty, warm with signature tangents and banter.
• Candid, sometimes irreverent, always deeply honest.

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In Summary

Sequoia and Jewel’s conversation is a loving (and critical) celebration of Black romance both on screen and in life. They champion shows that take risks in casting, storytelling, and emotional honesty, and—crucially—feature Black people loving each other without needing trauma as the narrative engine. The hosts regularly call out the lack of these stories in media, joke about their own doomed first loves, and dream of more complex, joyful, dark-skinned love in books and on TV. Their bottom line: Black romance deserves to be seen.

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Where to find the hosts:

• Jewel: @jewelwickershow (all platforms)
• Sequoia: @SEQUOIABHOLMES; SiriusXM Channel 109, 3-4 PM, “The Daily Dirty”

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For more, see “Black People Love Paramore” on YouTube and across podcast platforms. To connect, email [e-mail] or @BPLPPOD on social media.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome to Black People Love Paramore, a podcast not about the band Paramore, but about the common and uncommon interest of black people. In order to help us feel a little bit more seen. We talk pop culture over here. Fun stuff and on the occasion, a little bit of serious stuff too. But not today. Today we are talking about black romance, which is a fun, fuzzy stuff. Black romance and media specifically. So this is inspired by the current TV show on Netflix. By the time this episode comes out, it's probably going to be a little bit old, but we still love it. It's called Forever. It is a coming of age story based on a Judy Bloom novel and it is so fun and so cute. We'll get into it in a little bit. In the meantime, y' all know I have to teach you about the housekeeping. Please rate and review the podcast. Spotify, Apple, all that. Five star. Five star, naturally, of course. Also buy some merch. Always forget to tell you we have merch. We do have more merch than simply the Ariana Grande shirt. We have the five star shirt. We have straight branded Black people love Paramore shirts. And we have a Mocha Grande shirt. There's a lot of options. If you want to go take a look at the store, it'll be down in the description box below. Grab a little piece. It's different pieces, not only shirts. It got like handkerchiefs. What are those things called? Bandanas. Oh, my God, bandanas. If you guys can see Jewel's face, I'm being embarrassed. It has other things, you know. Just go and see about it and let me know how you like it and order something. Thank you. Because I love my bills paid. And then I think that's all the housekeeping that I had. And Julis, Julie's here today. That's the co host that we have today. We have Jewel. In case you're not watching. That's Jewel. She's right there. You. I know you heard the voice already. It's very distinct. It's very recognizable. You. You guys know that Jewel tried to tell us. By us, I mean me and Ryan and Minty Jewel hit the group chat talking about, oh my God, you guys, there's an epidemic of people losing their accents in the south. And I think that that's happening. We said, oh, well, I don't want to underestimate, undermine the fact that that likely is happening. I don't think that it is happening to you just based on the way that you. You do sound. So I wanted to, you know, alleviate you of that fear that you had.

[A]

Yeah. Ryan literally said, I don't think it is. And then when I posted a screenshot on Instagram and called him a bully, he said, yes.

[B]

And what about it?

[A]

I was stunned. I'm trying to tell y' all about an epidemic going on in my community. And that's how y' all playing. It's all right. Go on.

[B]

Yeah, so I just thought that that was interesting. Thought that y' all might find a little funny tidbit, because we did. We had a good chuckle, a good guffaw out of that one, actually. So, yeah, you recognize the voice there, Naturally. That's Jewel. And we're gonna be talking about some fun stuff today. We have forever that I mentioned before. We have romance novel, so that's like Seven Days in June by Tia Williams before I let go. This could be Us Both by Kennedy Ryan. She just came out with her third installment in that series. It's the Skyland series. I don't remember what that third one is called. I definitely have Google in front of.

[A]

Me because the series is based on Atlanta. Like Skyland.

[B]

Yeah. And Skyland.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, it's can't get enough.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

Can't get enough. Can't get enough. I need that. Yes, I did used to like that song.

[A]

That song used to. I used to run that song into the ground. Yeah. That was my. That was my J. Cole fandom days.

[B]

I never even liked J. Cole like that. But that was like my first car. And so I remember driving my first car. I think I was probably, like 17, had that plan on my way to whatever little dumb thing I was doing. What a fun time. Tbh. So we're gonna be talking about that. Of course. We got the novels. We got Forever the new series on Netflix. We have Insecure, naturally, that had lots of black love in it. And we have Love Life Season 2, because listen, the cancellation of that one. That is my favorite show that probably has ever existed. Or I don't want to be dramatic.

[A]

But definitely up there an example of something that was not for the. That the said, it's my hand it over.

[B]

Don't put nobody else get over in.

[A]

The series if they don't. If they not melanated, we don't want to see them no more. And they said, don't worry, cancel.

[B]

Never mind, Never mind.

[A]

Don't worry. I got a little too hype. We're gonna cancel it.

[B]

You will have nothing. Got a little bit too urban, a little bit too ethnic in here. And we would like to keep the Festivities. Very.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

White. So we are going to cancel it, actually. Thank you. So we're gonna be talking about all those things because we deserve. And it's very fun and. Yeah, why not? Let's start with forever Jewel. Oh, my God. I binged the out of this Netflix series. I feel like it started off a little bit slow for me. I felt like, why slow? It started off. I wasn't in love with the writing up front, but I think that was just because they were having to do exposition, you know, they were having to set up stuff, and I was just like. But then once everything was set up, it starts smacking real hard.

[A]

Okay. I'm so. For context, I'm like, halfway through the third episode, so I've only seen the beginning episodes. I. The writing is not irking me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But it just made me realize, like, oh, I don't think I like teenagers because the. The ping pong back and forth, Block them or don't, don't. Unblock them or don't. I don't care what you do. But I want us to make a choice, and I don't want to hear about it again.

[B]

It was so serious. Like, it's getting so. You know what I mean? Like, I was talking to my friend Tristan about it, and he said, it feels like they're going through a lot for a little first love. I said, because it feels serious when you in it.

[A]

And I get that. But I said, oh, this way, I wouldn't go back to high school for nothing in my life. Because every. You blocked him yesterday. Why are you acting like it's the end of the world today? You've done. You've been through it before. You literally just went through it yesterday. Like, what do you mean? I. I just. The ping ponging, the inability to communicate, very teen things, all very valid for teenagers. And I'm also like, I can't stand this. But what I will say is my favorite thing so far. And again, I'm only three episodes in wood. Harry's getting to be a dad.

[B]

I loved it. So I.

[A]

My heart, it's like. It's healing something in me. First of all, that man done played a drug dealer for half my damn life. Okay.

[B]

Hello. That's. I said, oh, wow. Something that's not scary.

[A]

Across the series, he been shooting and being a drug dealer. So to see him just be a successful, loving, supportive husband and dad. Yes, it just. It really did. And again, I didn't expect him in that role, but so nice and so perfect.

[B]

Like, he fits into it. So incredibly well. And it's really refreshing to be able to see him play a character like this, be able to see his nurturing side and see what he probably is like as a dad, you know? Want to speak it up? Turn.

[A]

I don't know, but I'm like his brother been terrorizing my screen for so long, I didn't even. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

It didn't even occur to me. And you know what? Okay. And this is, this is not really a spoiler for you because you're not from la.

[A]

And I also don't care. You know that I don't care about spoilers.

[B]

You actually don't care about spoilers. I forget that you don't care about spoiler. So strange. I care deeply about a spoiler. Like, I'll be sick if somebody spoils some to me. But the restaurant that Wood Harris's character owns in the show, it's called Linden. It's this restaurant in LA that me and Garrick just discovered. We went into. It's black owned and we were. When I tell you we were blown away by the meals that we had at Linden. Someone comes over to the table. Exactly like how they portray it in the show. Someone comes over to the table and they're like, I think it's the owner. He's like, I named it Lyndon because Linden is a street that runs through New York City. It runs through Brooklyn and Queens or something like that. And he's like, it has all types of people on the street. It has Latino people, has Jewish people, it has Caribbean people, it has black American people. And so all the food at Linden has all of those elements in it. Yes. And when I tell you, as someone from la, I hate to fucking admit it, the food scene in LA is not the best of them. You know what I mean? When I go to the south, obviously, when I go to Atlanta, when I go to New Orleans and stuff, I'm like, whoa. Like, I thought food was good in la. Food is crazy in fucking Atlanta and New Orleans. The food at Linden, 10 for 10. Not a single note did I have.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

And so when we got to that part and we saw that the restaurant he owned at Linden, when I tell you, me and Garrick stood up, screamed, it felt so good. We're like, wow, this is. This is la. Like, this is la. And also it's shot where Garrett grew up.

[A]

That's what I was about to ask. Cuz it felt like I'm not from there, but I was like, this seems really la.

[B]

It was so. It was so la. The seat. There's a sequence where they're walking through Koreatown. I lived in Koreatown for like five years. I also lived briefly where Garrett grew up. It just was so la.

[A]

It was great. Yeah.

[B]

So special.

[A]

I like it. I. I like it so far. I think the parents are really such good characters. I love teen. I'm still coming around to the teenagers. Tbd. Tbd.

[B]

You know, I hate a teenager. I actively hate a teenager.

[A]

Terrifying, terrifying individuals. I. And you know, I love kids. I love kids up until the age of like 10 or 11. At that point, I do have to send you back to your mama.

[B]

I'm telling you, about 11, they start to get a little.

[A]

I definitely gonna send you back to your mama the way.

[B]

23 too.

[A]

Okay. Because, you know, I got, you know, I got teens and My sisters are 20. Okay.

[B]

They coming. They about to. They about to come out of it. They about to come up.

[A]

No, they're not. No, they're not.

[B]

And.

[A]

And then the. My cousin is 16. My little cousin is 16. The way that little girl be is.

[B]

This one you be picking up from the skating ring?

[A]

Yes, the one that I'd be picking up from the skating rink. Terrifying individual. These kids are crazy. Like, I'm like, oh, was I like this as a teenager?

[B]

Like, I'm like, there's no way we were like this as teenagers. I refuse to believe the teenagers I'll be looking at today that on my goddamn nerves. I refuse to believe I was ever one of those.

[A]

I think we were, but I think we had more fear in our hearts. Like, I think so too. Like, I was scared of my not. Cuz I thought my mama was going to like beat me or nothing. But I. That lady is, you know, I didn't.

[B]

Want to get in trouble. It seemed like they could give some shits about getting in.

[A]

I just didn't really want to run up against her like that. I. It didn't seem like the thing for me to do right. They don't seem to care.

[B]

They don't. They really.

[A]

They don't seem to care. And I don't really know what to do about that. And I was like watching it and I guess it's probably, you know, I never really finished Euphoria because Euphoria stressed me out.

[B]

What?

[A]

You knew that.

[B]

No, I didn't.

[A]

Yes, you did, Jewel.

[B]

You never finished you for it.

[A]

Finish it. I didn't finish the first season.

[B]

What are you talking about? You're upsetting me, Sequoia.

[A]

The teenagers doing drugs and all. Why are we on only fans or whatever the hell we was doing? I couldn't take.

[B]

Wasn't voyeuristic to you because I never lived that life. But I do want a little inside look to know what is going on.

[A]

Overdosing in high school is crazy. Like, what am I supposed to do with this? Like, this is. I am sure this is somebody's experience.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I went to a black high school. I don't even really think we drank like that. I mean, we drank, but I don't really think we drank like that. It wasn't a thing that, like, it was like. Like, you know, and. And smoked a little weed. Like, I.

[B]

What do you mean? Coke, Right. And going to rehabilitation and. And heroin and prescription drugs, Vicodins and stuff.

[A]

And maybe. You know what? And I. I want to say it's because I didn't go to a white school, but the way that these little kids. Okay. Be acting today, I do think some of the black kids probably be popping pills or doing whatever the hell they be doing.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

So maybe it's spooky. Ookie at the black schools too, these days.

[B]

It's giving that. But. But. But, yes. I didn't relate to Eu all similar.

[A]

I just couldn't watch it. But I didn't.

[B]

But I did relate to forever a lot. Really, how this. You haven't gotten to. I don't. I feel.

[A]

I don't care for you.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Spoilers alert, y'. All. If y' all have not finished it, just know I'm. I'mma spoil some stuff throughout this episode. It's just a first love story. That is. So you relate to it like there's. There's no trauma, like, within the first love portion of it.

[A]

Oh, okay. Because I'm like, it literally.

[B]

I know the. The conflict is based on trauma, but as it gets past that, because it will get past that, it's like, yes, okay.

[A]

Because that's it. Part of this for me is I'm just like, this is.

[B]

I know no one gets past that, but I definitely relate to, like, your first love just being, like, this pure, actually wonderful experience that isn't traumatizing and isn't. You know, the first love part isn't traumatizing. What she's going through is traumatizing, but the love part is not. And it's just, like, lovely. And we never get that. Black people never get.

[A]

That's fascinating because I think that's just how you are in general when you talk about, like, Previous relationships. You're like, it didn't end like it ended, but like, the times are had. And I'm like, yeah. Oh, no. I was heartbroken. So that was truly the worst experience. I don't want to, like, you know what I mean? Like, I think first loves are so beautiful and pure and. And you're feeling all of these feelings and emotions for the first time also. That means if you experience heartbreak, you're feeling that for the first time. It feels more dramatic. It feels more painful. Like it feels. You know what I mean? And so, like, yes. Yeah. It to me is a very, like, the dualities of it.

[B]

I'm just like, no, that's so real. That's so real. And I feel like they do a really good job of. Of displaying those dualities of it here too. It just isn't like, you know, there's no, like, she gets pregnant and.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, it's a life altering, you know, oh, she's a victim of some type of, like, there's no altering thing. It just ends as spoiler. It just ends as it. As first love does.

[A]

You know, it's gonna hurt me. I thought, what's the point of the show now if they don't stay together? Not.

[B]

You just told me you didn't care.

[A]

If I didn't think it was gonna break.

[B]

Oh, Lord.

[A]

I just didn't see it coming. Mind you, halfway through the season, I would have googled it because I wouldn't have been able to take the suspense, and then I would have spoiled it for myself. Like, I am this literally who I am. Like, I start to be like, I can't take this anymore. I don't. I'm not finna endure heartbreak on the half of this show, so I'm gonna spoil it for myself and see what happened. But that really just hurt me. What do you mean?

[B]

They don't work out, but they break out. They break up, like, in a very.

[A]

I don't give a damn.

[B]

I can't. I can't.

[A]

That's the whole point of romance, is you're supposed to stay together.

[B]

Did you want to end up with your damn high school sweetheart?

[A]

I did. That's why I was heartbroken that I didn't.

[B]

But now your 30s, are you.

[A]

In hindsight, I should have terrible decisions.

[B]

But I should have been with that.

[A]

The point is, when I was 16, did I would, like, did I want to sell off into the sunset? Absolutely.

[B]

Until you didn't. And that's how it be. That's how it be when you when you're 17, I think that. I think they. It takes place over, like, a couple years. I think they get to, like, senior. Like, they're going on 18 or whatever. It's just like, yeah, I did. And now I don't.

[A]

No, because you don't. I guess so. There's some people, like. I don't know how to put it. Like, you didn't. You didn't have a relationship. It didn't even have to be the first relationship, but you didn't have a relationship that just lingered way longer than it should have liked. Most relationships are not a clean break. Yeah, like, most relationships are like, we're done. I'm just kidding. We're not done. Like, we're just. You know what I mean? Like, what do you have done that much?

[B]

I haven't done the. Like, well, I'm just kidding. We're not done. I've just done, like, we're still best friends, and so we're still hanging out almost every day and still, like, also having sex and still, like, that's kind of what.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But we're not together.

[A]

Very terrible.

[B]

We're not together.

[A]

I was very terrible in my early 20s of being, like, either way together or we're not. Lose my number. Outside of that.

[B]

Oh, you were so. You.

[A]

I was bad at. No, I was bad at it. I was the, like, oh, we're still best friends. Or, oh, we still are, like, hanging out all the time. Or we're still.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, why am I talking to your mom? Why am I at your mama house?

[B]

Hello? Hello?

[A]

Don't call my mama again either. And I mean it.

[B]

Relatable.

[A]

So. Yeah, I don't know. That's my. Actually, my high school ex just stopped calling my mama a few years ago.

[B]

What?

[A]

It's very recent.

[B]

Oh, you know what? Let me not judge. Let me not judge.

[A]

I'm serious. And I had to tell her. You keep picking up the phone, and it's starting to piss me off.

[B]

Why are you picking up the phone for him?

[A]

Don't answer that man phone call.

[B]

Don't answer it again. I don't care, period. It's actually very much like that. I love the mom of this. I love his mom. I love Justin's mom in this. I don't remember what the lady's name is. See, I need to stop acting like I don't have Google. I do. And also, I can stop acting like I don't have to talk when I'm looking for something. You'll come to like her. I Did not like her. I did not.

[A]

I don't dislike her. But I'm just curious, like, what was it about her that you love? I'm just genuinely curious from your perspective.

[B]

I think what this show does really well, and Garrick mentioned it actually, it subverts all of the. Where you think the conflict is about to go, at least on all of the parent sides.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So you think the parents are about to respond one way because historically, this is how black moms have responded. And instead, they respond a very different way where they've been reading up on childhood trauma. You know, like, they are clearly more informed. Like, it's like a different generation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're like, okay, I understand, like, that you're going through this right now. And therefore, instead of flying off the handle, like I want to. I'm going to say this to you. I'm gonna explain. You know, it's just like a little bit different. I'm like, damn, I'm impressed.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

It was really nice.

[A]

Have you seen that tick tock trend these days where people are saying common black parent phrases to their kids to see how they respond and the kids have no idea what the hell they're talking about?

[B]

Sure have. Absolutely.

[A]

I said not the trauma being healed.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, damn. Are we really the generational curse breakers? For examples? It's like, somebody will be like, I brought you in this world so I can. And the child was supposed to fill in the blank. Right. And the child's like, take me to get ice cream. And the mom's like, okay.

[A]

Or I'll give you something to praise about. Like, the kids literally have no idea. I don't know what you're like.

[B]

They have no.

[A]

Yeah. They don't understand what those phrases are, mind you. When I think of them, I immediately know the end of the phrase.

[B]

Right. So her character, the. The Justin's mom in particular is really good about that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Keisha's mom, it's kind of more of a mix of what we traditionally have experienced and, you know, having a little bit more knowledge on that's fair. What affects your children.

[A]

I'm, again, I'm still really early. I didn't dislike. I do think she's tough in the first few episodes, but not in a way that I, like, hated her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a way that I was like, that's probably gonna be me.

[B]

No, I. I literally said the same thing. I said, oh, I'm. That's gonna be me.

[A]

That's gonna be Ryan. Me and. Me and Ryan be cussing each other out because he's gonna be telling me to lay low. You lay low.

[B]

Hell low, very much. I'm not laying low.

[A]

You need to back me up and don't piss me off. Like, hello. Yeah, I definitely. So I. I. There was a toughness in her, but I also saw her soften in some ways that I thought were, like, very nurturing and very fair. Again, I'm still early, but I didn't. I didn't dislike her. And I also like how she peeped, too, because I think, like, good moms do that. Good moms peep what's going on and be like. And I like that she was like, I don't know what's going on with you between you, this little girl, and I do want you to have somebody, but not if you're gonna be disrespected, so fix it.

[B]

Right, Right. I did like that.

[A]

I like that. You know what I mean? Because she never said anything. She didn't embarrass him. She didn't call it out in the moment. She didn't even ask, what's going on. She was like, I don't really give a damn what's going on. That's your business. But one thing I will say, don't let nobody play in your face. And I like that.

[B]

And I like how she. Like you said, like, how she peeped what was going on with her child, too. You know, she's in the midst of this conversation with this woman that she hasn't seen in a very long time. She's obviously excited to talk to her, obviously excited to see Keisha, and she still got one eye on her son, and she can pick up on his emotions and what's going on with him. And I really like that.

[A]

It was the same way. The granddad, in one of the scenes, like, he saw her walk off. That man said, and where are we going?

[B]

Right? I like.

[A]

They were very observant. And he was very like, the granddad was. And there was a moment that I thought was really powerful because she was like, oh, my dad loves me. And he was like, or he's doing. She was like, my dad's doing the best he can. And her, like, he was like, no, he's not. I love that he literally is not. Love is not enough fix.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

And I love that because I love not teaching, especially young girls. I love not teaching young girls that doing the best you can or love is a valid excuse, because I think not only do you take that from parents, but you grow up to take it from friends. You grow up to take it from romantic partners. You get into all sorts of. Even if they're not, like, traditionally abusive, like, unhealthy relationships, because you were taught at a young age that it was okay that a parent was doing the best they could, but it was. They weren't actually stepping up and they weren't actually doing the best they could. To be quite honest, I really like that moment.

[B]

That was so real to me as well. It's like, yeah, don't make excuses for grown man's poor behavior. He's giving you lip service somehow. He's doing the best he can. The best he can is to be present with you here. And he is not. So.

[A]

And I love that it was another man who said it, and I love that it was somebody from his side that said it. Like, I. I really liked that 100.

[B]

And I'm happy that she still had. I like that though they portrayed that she still had, like, a strong male influence. Like, it wasn't like a. Her story wasn't a sob story, you know, like, she didn't have. She don't have a soft story. And I feel like that's more likely what it is when you have single mothers. You know, it's like, not always this.

[A]

I didn't feel that sob story when I was raised by a single. Whenever people try to talk to me about that, I'm like, I'm sure that exists also, right? What are you talking about? That's not my life story. What are you talking about? Like, people are like, I'm sure it was so hard. You're like, being raised by a single mother, being raised. How did you do it? And I'm just like, girl, we had a blast.

[B]

I had a good time.

[A]

We had a really good time. Best thing she did was leave that man and raise me alone.

[B]

Also, there are so many women who are married and still single moms. So let's start there. So let's start there. Let's really start there. You over here trying to.

[A]

The whole time. So now what? He don't know what school the kids go to. He don't know what they're allergic to. He'll know what their doctor name is, okay? He don't know what time they get out of school. He can't help you pick him up because he'll never even know where the school located. Like, it's just like, you're a single mom.

[B]

Like, so, yeah, you pitying single moms. It's just really, literally single but you are. You might not be single, but you're a single mom.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So stop it. Yeah, stop it. My mom says the exact same thing. My mom, you know, raised by a single mom. Her mom was 15 when she had her first kid. 21. She had her last kid. And my mom's like, yeah, I didn't miss no dad.

[A]

I genuinely, like, it's so funny because I, like, I know, like, when I got older and I would try to talk to people, people like, you need to. You need to examine the hole that, like, not having your dad in your life and not being raised by your dad, like, created for you. And I was like, I literally don't be thinking about it till y' all bring it up.

[B]

I don't feel a hole until you allegedly, when you brought it up.

[A]

Now I'm up here trying to find the hole. It literally never occurred to me like, it. I'm not saying that there is not trauma, but this deep. I'm sure there are kids who feel a deep longing for a parent that was not there.

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

And also, there are kids that are.

[B]

Like, fine, more than okay, like, very much okay.

[A]

I feel very loved. I did not lack for love. I did not lack for support. I didn't lack for parental guidance. So I didn't realize that something was missing.

[B]

And that's what I liked about Keisha's story. She did not lack for parental. Parental guidance at all. And she didn't seem to lack for.

[A]

Love or, yeah, even, you know, well. But so I. What I will say in her situation is that I liked the way they portrayed her mother as somebody who was, like, working multiple jobs. She worked late, clearly, like, you know, she had a complicated schedule, but she was still very present. She still, like, she still had a bond with her kid. She still, like, when that man sent her flowers, she said, something's up here. Now, she didn't put two and two together immediately, but she immediately saw them flowers and said, he's apologizing for something or something.

[B]

You know what? That was part of what I was having a hard time getting through writing wise. I felt like that was a leap. You felt? I did. I felt like the. Her assuming that something was up or that he was apologizing for something specifically. I was like, now how does she get there? You know? Like, I was like, oh, this feels like exposition.

[A]

Okay, so only because I think. And this is just as somebody, especially somebody who is, like, raised by a single mother, like, I definitely know there are, like, there are times when, like, moms can Just read your tone or your shift in your, like, you know, posture or the way that you were, like, showing up in the room. And I think the only reason she went to that was because she was like, this man just sent you not just like some flowers from, like, cvs, but like, some very expensive, very lovely flowers. This is like a well coveted man. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you seem terrified that there are flowers in our home. That's strange. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like she was reading her body language and she was reading the fact that this seems really exciting and you look like you want to die. Something's wrong here.

[B]

I can see that.

[A]

So that's the only reason now? Yeah. Like, if she had kept pushing it, I'd have been like, that's a little weird. But the only reason I didn't immediately think that's strange was because I felt like she was just in tune with her kid and being like, why are. Like, why are you not more elated that this. Because she's a teenage girl. Like, if a man that you really, really like send you some flowers that are that gorgeous, like, yeah, you would have been okay. They would have been on Instagram stories within the second.

[B]

That is a fact. But I think the only, the only note that I have for this and I just thought about this right now. This is not something I was thinking about when I was watching the show. The only note that I have for that point is like, well, then how come you couldn't read her body language when she was going through the huge, huge, huge trauma of having her sex tape passed?

[A]

I don't think that's unfair. I don't think that's unfair. You know, I don't think that's unfair. I.

[B]

You know, so I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I was having a hard time. But once we got past, like, just the little those. Because obviously you have to set that up. Right?

[A]

You have to set it up. You have to do all this stuff, right? No, no, no, I get it. And I do think that both of those things are very fair.

[B]

Right. And like, first seasons of shows, and this is why it's really unfortunate that many black shows don't get more than two or so know, first seasons of shows are a lot of exposition and a lot of getting to know characters and a lot of setups. And, you know, it's not usually the best season.

[A]

The second season.

[B]

Oh, they really might.

[A]

Lord. Oh, I'm so pleased. Sea I'm So why did you. Let me tell you. God, why did you let. I'm so pleased. Cuz I. Okay, that's great. We're just building for season two for the.

[B]

We're just building. We're building for season.

[A]

Okay, that's great. Okay. Oh, I was so worried. I'm serious. But no, like, I. Yeah, I think that that's a very. That's the thing about pilots and like the first few episodes of a brand new show is like you gotta world build and character build and do all of these things that take time and people have to be patient enough to like. So that the payoff, actually.

[B]

Yeah, there is a payoff.

[A]

Yeah. So that. There is a payoff.

[B]

Yeah, very much. And other TV shows that I feel like did a really good job. Okay, well, before I get into that, Season two was just announced for forever and I'm very, very excited about it. And the way that they announced it was they like made a video of all the cast getting the notification that season two is picked up. Yes. So each of the cast reacts to, like seeing that season two is picked up, which tells me that this is not going to be an anthology. I did want forever to be an.

[A]

Anthology and I don't think it's a bad idea. But unfortunately they didn't stay together in season one. So I do have to drag it.

[B]

I guess. You and everybody else. I guess that's what they say together.

[A]

If I had got my little thing wrapped up in a bow, then we can move on to the next couple.

[B]

Wrapped up in a bow. And that's why they need to. That's why they need to leave it and move on to another couple. Because once you get to the end, you're going to be like, oh, that really is wrapped up in a bowl. Like, like it won't make sense for them to get.

[A]

I don't give a damn. The toxicity in me is if you're meant to be. I don't give a damn what makes sense. It's faded. Let fate take its course. I'm Emily Fleming.

[B]

I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Matt Lieb. We are real comedy writers, real friends, and real cheapskates. On every episode of our podcast, free with ads, we ask, why pay for expensive streaming services when you can get free movies from apps with weird names? Each week we review the freest movies the Internet has to offer.

[A]

Classics like Pride and Prejudice, cult classics.

[B]

Like Point Break and Holy sh. T. What did I just watch? Classics like Teen Witch tune in every.

[A]

Week as we take a deep Dive into the Internet's bargain bin Every Tuesday.

[B]

On MaximumFun.org or your favorite pod place. The flop House is a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it. Robert Shaw in Jaws, and they're trying to figure out how to get rid of the ghoulies, and he scratches his nails and goes, I'll get your ghoulie. He's just standing above the toilet with a harpoon. No. I was looking forward to you going through the other ways in which Wild Wild west is historically inaccurate. You know how much movies cost nowadays when you add in your popcorn and your bagel bites and your cheese fritters, you can't go wrong with a Henry Cavill mustache. Here at Henry Cavill Mustaches, the only supplier, the Flop House. New episodes every Saturday. Find [e-mail] now. How come you don't have the same energy for romance novels, Miss Hopeless Romantic? I also don't have this energy for romance novels. I'm not gonna hold you. I love a romance in visual media, but I don't love a romance.

[A]

I think that there is something about, like, a TV show or a movie and the way that you can build characters the. The soundtrack of it. Because I really enjoyed the soundtrack of this.

[B]

That's so true.

[A]

I really enjoyed the soundtrack of this. Of this series. Like, I think there's so much that you can build up in a show that in a book. I'm just reading. Flowerly, flowery language. And. And I do think we amp it up a little bit. Like, why are you talking to me in soliloquies? This is pissing me off. It just starts to get on my nerves when I'm reading. No, you're right.

[B]

I 100 agree. It feels like the characters in a romance novel are never real enough for me. Like, I'm like. I'm like, this is too flowery. That's generally what it ends up being. And obviously, I don't want people to have to go through trauma in order for it to not. But it's too. It's like the way they speak is too flowery. Like, it's soliloquy.

[A]

I'm over it's it. So it's so funny because Ryan and I have. My boyfriend and I have this argument often because he feels like a good book cannot be less than five to 600 pages, which I think is nuts.

[B]

I think my mouth just dropped.

[A]

It's nuts.

[B]

You said.

[A]

Okay, he said, and that's being generous. He really feels like seven. Get over it like, because he feels like that's how long it should take for you to build this world and for you to develop these characters and.

[B]

For you to set up only in sci fi, babe, if we're already built, if we're already in the real world, if we're in Atlanta, if we're in Skyland, I don't need. I don't need all of that.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

In fact, I'm not reading it. Thank you.

[A]

I don't want you to explain Queens to me that bad. You're about to piss me off. I don't think that that's necessary, but I do think sometimes, and I'm not saying this about all romance novels because I don't think it's true, but I think sometimes when I get annoyed is when I feel like we didn't. We could have built up the care. We could have done a little more character development. We could have this.

[B]

I feel that way.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, yes, we didn't need to get five to 600 pages, but we could.

[B]

Have did a lumo. Do you know who is a fantastic writer? Kylie Reid is. She doesn't write romance, but she is, when I tell you, a fantastic character builder and dialogue writer. I'm so incredibly impressed. She wrote such a Fun Age.

[A]

Oh, I. Oh, I loved that book.

[B]

I love. I still haven't gotten to such a fun age, but I. Her. Her other book, Come and Get It.

[A]

Okay. So I haven't read that.

[B]

I was floored by the way that she wrote characters and the way that she wrote dialogue. It was the most vivid and clear characters I've ever seen in my life. And I have yet to. I want her to write a romance interesting for that reason.

[A]

I. I read Such a Fun Age when it. When it first came out, so I didn't even know she had other books because I hadn't checked in on her. Let me, let me tap in.

[B]

I'm telling you, tap the in and let me know because if you're okay. So the thing about me is I'm not a plot driven girl that deeply. I really am a characters driven girl and a dialogue driven girl. So that' why I was at first having a hard time with Forever. Even though it did come around and get really, really good, the dialogue of it wasn't fantastic for me at first, but it did get good. Because again, at the beginning you're like having the characters say expository stuff, so they're having to say certain stuff, you know? Right. And I'm like, nobody would say that, you know, like, that's what I don't.

[A]

Like about romance novels. Because I'm like.

[B]

And that's what I don't like about romance novels.

[A]

That we are trying to build a dream man. But I do want the dream man to be believable. Don't speak like that.

[B]

Like, you can.

[A]

And if.

[B]

If they do, at least make them, like, put in some verbiage where I'm like, oh, yeah, do talk like that. So this one is just a really good. You know. Right.

[A]

But that's what I'm saying. Like, you can do that and you can show somebody who's, like, not toxic and loving and verbally expressive communicative without them just being. It's not even a corny thing for me. It's literally unrealistic. Like, why are you speaking? Like.

[B]

I agree. I agree. That's my problem with romance novels. And I really want Kylie Reid to go ahead and write a romance novel because I know for a fact she would eat that shit down.

[A]

Now, have you read. What was the name of that romance novel? I know it was by the author, Akwaeke and Mihei. I don't want to pronounce her there. What was that?

[B]

I've never. I've never read a romance novel by them. I read a different novel by them.

[A]

Okay. So their. Their books I really enjoy. They're always, like, left of center, kind of like, they're the. And I really enjoy that about their like works because their books always go in a place that I was not expecting. But they tried their hand at a romance novel, and it was so toxic and fun, but I kind of enjoyed it because. So I'm getting to the age where I don't want it to be super, like, sweet, syrupy. I want some mess. Like, I am reading this book to forget about life. I want mess to occur. I want us to be.

[B]

I want a page turner. Yeah.

[A]

I want silly goofiness. I want ridiculousness. Now, I want it to be believable, but I wanna. I want it to be a little ridiculous. Like, and that novel. That novel was. And that was their first time trying to hand out a romance book. But it was. It was fun.

[B]

Okay, I'll.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

I'm happy to try that out. Yeah. Because a lot of the romances that I have read, I guess, are just a little bit too predictable. Like, that's the whole thing. Like, I'm like, yes. And like, I. And this is coming from me when I tell you I love a happy ending. In fact, if Anything to break up.

[A]

They'd be making me that mess in the books. The books be making me that mad. I actually don't want y' all to be together now. What?

[B]

I love a happy real bad. Speaking of insecure, Issa and Lawrence getting back together at the end of Insecure, and that being how the entire series wrapped up, I manifested it. I always wanted them to get back together because I'm a happy ending girl.

[A]

I don't think I thought about it. Yeah, I really don't. I don't think I thought about, like, what's the perfect ending for Insecure? I think Insecure was one of the few shows where I just was like, wherever they take me, I will go. I will say Insecure stressed me out so much that I did stop watching in real time for a while because I felt like Insecure. Insecure was one of the few shows whenever I explain this to people, they think I'm being dramatic. But Insecure was one of the few shows where I, like, had visceral reactions. Watching watching it felt.

[B]

You're the only person I've heard say this, and I'm shocked because I thought one person was tripping. I heard one person said. I was like, you're tripping. But okay.

[A]

It felt hyper real to me. Like, it felt. They said too, in a way that I was like, I don't have the capacity for this. Like, if I'm serious, I'm serious. And I remember because I'm like, why are you triggered? You didn't cheat on your boyfriend in the studio. Like, why are you upset, Jewel? Like, but it was so, like, like, watching that relationship dissolve and watching this just the way that it was just. It's a well written show is what it is. It was a really well written show, and I felt really connected to the characters, and the characters really did feel like homegirls and homeboys.

[B]

They did.

[A]

And so when they did that was embarrassing or was gonna up or whatever. I felt like, I can't watch this. I. I cannot watch this. There is a train wreck ahead and I can't watch. I literally would be behind. I'm serious. I would watch. I would. I would not watch. I started back, like, once this show, like, once we got towards the end, but for a couple, like, I didn't watch in real time because it was.

[B]

That, like, to me, wow, you know? Yes. I've heard about maybe two or three people say that exact same sentiment now. And I will say, I think that's what I loved about it so much. I also did feel like it was hyper realistic. In fact, when the first episode, me and Issa were in, like, the exact same place in life pretty much the first season, I was exactly Issa right at that exact time in my life. Except I was a little bit younger. I think Issa was 30. I was probably about 22 or something and like, or 23ish. And I was exactly that. And I remember watching it like, yes.

[A]

I was young and it was too much. It was too much.

[B]

And then it felt like my exact life.

[A]

Remember I told you that guy that I, like, broke up with sent me this long thing where he was like, I. Like the way that I was going to propose to you was going to be like, the insecure. It was going to be the montage where they get back together. Do you remember the La La Land at Esque, like, montage they have where, like, Issa, like, imagines that they get back together and they, like, they're still in that kind of thing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But it wasn't real. They. They weren't actually back together. Like, he, like, invoked that, and he was like, this is what I was thinking. And I was like, how manipulative.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, now you don't ruin my show.

[A]

I don't want to think about this when I'm watching my show. Like, wow, Insecure was coming too close to home.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

And I feel like the. The was trying. Trying to pull tricks out the bag from the 20s are a spooky time is what you're missing, Sequoia. And Insecure, it is secure. Captured that so well. But if I'm in it, why would I want to see it?

[B]

That's. That's. I. I totally understand. I totally understand what you're saying. Like, I think I had a different response to it, but I did feel the same. I also had visceral reactions to insecure, but I always believed in Lawrence and I always believed in Issa, and I believed in them breaking up and I believed in them getting back together.

[A]

I did.

[B]

I sure did. I said, he just needs to go grow. And he did. And she just needs to go other people for a little bit. And she did.

[A]

You know, I love Nathan.

[B]

Hello. Nathan was great. And I love. Oh, my God. When they almost fought, when Lawrence and Nathan almost fought, when I tell you.

[A]

How could you watch this?

[B]

I only dream of such things, Sequoia.

[A]

I really be watching. Like. Like, I'm watching. Like, this is gonna give me heart palpitations. I can't watch this. Like, when Molly would do Dumb. Like, when Molly. Molly's dating life literally made me want to hide under the table. Like, what? The choices that you're making are dumb and you don't even.

[B]

Yeah, Molly was upsetting. Molly was.

[A]

Molly was pissing me off. And. And, yeah, true. Often ways that, like Molly. I saw parts of myself in Molly.

[B]

Really? I'm surprised by that.

[A]

You don't see parts of me and Molly.

[B]

No.

[A]

Interesting. I feel like I saw parts of myself even more. For sure. More so than Issa. I feel like I resonated with Molly way more than Issa.

[B]

I'm really surprised by that.

[A]

I felt like watching, like. Felt like parts of myself were like, a part of Molly. And so when she would do dumb, I would just be like. And this. Why are we gonna be single forever, me and you? Because you playing.

[B]

Oh, oh, oh, oh.

[A]

Because she would be in there playing. Yeah, like, just. Yeah, maybe what I saw in her was like, I did feel like I used to, like, pick the wrong guys. Like, pick the guys that I wanted, but that's no attention. Like, that man is not looking at you. He's not paying you any money. There's a man right there who is falling over himself to pay attention to you, and you can't even see it because you looking at somebody who don't know you exist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Drove me crazy. Drove me crazy. But also relatable.

[B]

Yeah, no, that. I mean, that is relatable. Absolutely relatable. What stressed me out about Molly more than. More than, like, her poor decisions and men or, like, choosing men that didn't want her. More than choosing men that didn't want her. Her friendship's really.

[A]

She was not a great. See, and that's why when I'm. That's why I hesitate to be like, oh, I saw parts of myself and Molly because I don't think I was, like, a shitty friend.

[B]

Right. Because. So. Exactly. So what you're saying the parts of Molly that stuck out to you were not the parts of Molly that stuck out to me. So while that was happening in the background, it wasn't like, the primary thing of Molly to me, you know? To me, the primary thing of Molly was like, oh, you're shitty. You know? But I'm like, oh, yeah.

[A]

In a way, that's driving me crazy.

[B]

And I'm like, no, I don't. I don't see that for you, Jewel.

[A]

But if you're talking about she did across the board. She did in her relationships, too. That's why she was acting, like, understood. But also it transferred over to her friendships in a way that was just like, this is weird.

[B]

Like ugly.

[A]

Yeah. It wasn't attractive. Like, it was. It was just like mean spirited sometimes. Or it was just inconsiderate maybe.

[B]

Yeah, she was super inconsiderate. I'm like, oh, I don't know how y' all maintain that friendship. Tbh. But yeah, insecure was another, you know, strong black love consistent all up. And throughout that show, even when it was black mess, it was black love still. And we loved it. Oh, my God. We need.

[A]

I should be watching in my 30s because maybe I feel different about it, you know?

[B]

That's a good idea. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, that's actually a really good idea. I really do think we might feel different about it in our 30s. Truly.

[A]

Yeah. I think I could have a better time watching it now. Everybody end up married and happy. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, it's not stressful.

[B]

Right? So. And that's also how your life, you know, that's also how your life is going too. So it's not like 20s.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not like a personalized like, oh, we're gonna be single forever thing, you know, anymore like that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And being single is not. I don't want to make it sound like it's being.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Disease.

[A]

It.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I would prefer to be by my damn self before being with somebody who ain't got no damn sense.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

I had a good time when I was single towards the end, like in my late 20s, like before my current boyfriend. After my last breakup, I had a blast. I had a. I had a great time. Which is when I feel like you start to be pickier about who you let in because it's like, oh, I'm actually having a good time. So, like, if you were going to be here. You cannot piss me off.

[B]

Exactly. Don't piss me off.

[A]

100% piss me off.

[B]

That's that level of self assuredness and stuff that I was. That Molly was like, she did not.

[A]

She simply didn't have it.

[B]

She. She just. She just didn't quite have it. Another TV show that portrayed black romance and black love and just the most lovely. Perfect. Again, I told you, I'm a dialogue girl. I'm a character's girl. Love Life, Season 2, Dialogue and Character. The. It is unmat a master class in how to build a character, how to write dialogue. So good.

[A]

I don't want to call him Chidi because his name ain't cheating, but that's where I know him from.

[B]

That's exactly what his name is to me.

[A]

Cheating. Having him, this, like, nerdy, kind of awkward character. Be the central love character and be, like, kind of goofy, kind of making dumb decisions, but also not in a way that he was, like, dislikable, like, unlikable. You know what I mean? He was very, like.

[B]

He was very likable.

[A]

Yeah. Even when he was doing dumb, it was like, now, you know, you ain't had no business doing that. But it was. He was still likable as a person. And I just felt so deeply connected to those characters. I mean, me too. Oh, my God. I loved that. And I. That was my. I found out about love life for season two, so I hadn't watched the same.

[B]

Same.

[A]

I went back and re watched it. We went back and watched it afterwards. But I watched season two first and.

[B]

I said Anakin and third, and then I went back and watched season one after I had watched season two multiple times.

[A]

I said, Anna Kendrick and her little love story is very cute.

[B]

Honestly, it was also really good, but. Yeah, but it ain't what really hooked me. It wasn't.

[A]

It ain't. This love life came out at the same. I'm pretty sure maybe I watched at that time. Love life, I'm pretty sure came out at this. Season two came out at the same time that couples therapy did.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I feel like maybe it was because I was in my late 20s. I was trying to, like, re examine, like, healthy relationships, like, all of this stuff, but, like, watching season two of love life, this, like, black couple who is, like, figuring it out. They're not perfect. They're making mistakes. They're, you know, not perfect, but they are right for each other. And they, you know, end up kind of achieving this happiness. And then watching couples therapy where there are these couples that are maddening, but you. You walk. And, like, I would start this season being like, I hate this couple or I hate this person in this coupling. And then I would soften by the end and be like, oh, they're human. And, like, there's nobody that's wrong or right in this scenario. They're just mature, different.

[B]

Yeah, you're really mature.

[A]

That's enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No.

[B]

Couple therapy comes back this month, and I come back bring May 23rd. Now I am excited.

[A]

Couples therapy and it was like, so it. Couples therapy came out right when Ryan and I started dating. It was like one of the first shows we watched together, and it's such a fun way to get to know, like, a new partner. Because you get this. What you think about what he said.

[B]

Oh, that's so interesting.

[A]

Give me your thoughts quickly.

[B]

Watch it with me. Because he know I'm trying to immater this.

[A]

Because I would hate to find out you on his side.

[B]

Right? He never. And of course they never are, but I'll be like, so should we talk about what was brought up in this episode? Right. No. Now you're trying to make it a homework exercise.

[A]

Doing it when we just met. So he was willing to do foolish things. You know what I'm saying? Like, this was earlier. Right. Now he would be like, turn it off.

[B]

But you had to trap him. Yeah. Early on.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So I. But I just like watching. I don't know. It just. It really. That plus love life season, season two, it just really was such a, like, good way of, like, ex. There's so many depictions of, like, toxicity on. I know. You know, And I was like. So it just really did something for my heart to be able to see, like, healthy relationships or people who have imperfect relationships but are, like, doing their best to work through it. And, you know, maybe that ain't. Girl, that ain't the relationship I want. But y' all love it. Good for you.

[B]

You know, Love Life Season 2 did so much for me. It really made me also find Chidi attractive, first of all, because I never saw it before.

[A]

I gotta be honest.

[B]

Me neither. And then I saw. I said, oh, I kind of see it.

[A]

I wouldn't know. Yeah. When I was watching the Good Place, I never. It never occurred to me, not one time, good for him and Kristen Bell, but it never occurred to me. But watching season two, I would say even immediately in the season, I wasn't super, but, like, by the middle or, like.

[B]

Me. And I said, oh, wait a minute. Yeah, let me find out.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He very much. He was such a. I think what I like there is. I feel like there are so many times where. Especially because we don't see a lot of, like, healthy black love stories. And so when we finally do, like, the casting is so predictable or they go with somebody who has, like, been this archetype of, like, whatever. But I felt like they took a chance with him. Somebody who wasn't, like, a super huge name. He wasn't. He was like Michael B. Jordan, where everybody's, like, ruling over him. And I'm not saying Chidi's not attractive, but, like, you know what I'm trying to say? Like, he wasn't that stereotypical love interest where everybody, like, loves Him. And I really feel like that paid off because he was such a good main character and it made him so.

[B]

So real and so relatable. And the same thing with season one of Love Life, honestly. Obviously wasn't black, but like, you know, everybody looks like a real person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? I really like there, there is no Scarlett Johansson. There's no, you know, there's no Michael B. Jordan. Like, everybody looks like, like a real person, which makes them all the more real, which makes the dialogue all the more believable when it's coming out of their mouth, which makes their stories all the more relatable.

[A]

Gut wrenching when you thought, because I mean, there's moments in season two where I'm like, these are really not gonna end up together. And that's really.

[B]

I thought, I wholeheartedly didn't think they were going up together.

[A]

Really about to piss me off.

[B]

I really didn't. And I was thoroughly upset.

[A]

You know, I can't take. This is something that I cannot handle. And so, yeah, when they took it off hbo, like, my best friend sent me.

[B]

I bought it.

[A]

Yeah, my best friend sent me an itunes gift card and said, purchase it, baby.

[B]

I have bought it. I absolutely bought it.

[A]

You out your mind if you think I'm not gonna have access to Love.

[B]

Life Season 2, stop playing with me. I would always have access to Love Life Season 2. I don't give a. What y' all take it off of, it's mine move. Yeah, I definitely bought that. Absolutely bought that. Yeah, yeah. That one's serious to me. And, and something else about all these shows that we've named Dark skinned Black leads. Dark Skinned Black Leads. And like you said, like they kind of subvert that. Oh, what you automatically think the leads are gonna look like for forever? Are there any light skinned people in it? I'm not seeing any. I actually didn't. I don't, I don't think that there's any light skinned people in the damn show. I really appreciated that both moms were dark skinned because usually, you know, they have like a dark skinned dad and light skinned or biracial mom and the daughter is also a little bit mixed looking and you know, whatever. That's generally how it goes. No, not how that went in forever, two unambiguously black dark skinned people came together and had two. An ambiguously black dark skinned children. Loved it. Insecure. Very similar thing. I mean, Lauren's not the darkest man I ever seen in my life, but you know, he's not. He's not mixed looking. He don't, you know, he looks monoracial black. Boom. Him. And he's. I think one of the most revolutionary things we can do for black love stories is have two black people love each other. And when you let non black people write black love stories, what they think is revolutionary is interracial love. And that's trauma and, or some type of trauma. They think, they think putting interracial. They think putting a white person and a black person together is so boundary breaking and revolutionary and blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, they're just reinforcing the same stereotypes that we see in our communities constantly. We need to see black people love each other. And that's what I love about all of the shows that we listed here. For sure.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

So good. Another one that obviously I feel like I would be remiss to not bring up Moonlight. Oh, I loved Moonlight. Moonlight is so good. Obviously, just by virtue of the story that they are telling. Moonlight is steeped in a lot more drama than the other ones that we named Moonlight.

[A]

Also, though, when I think of like Mahershala Ali and like the, like, they weren't, they weren't his parents. But like the parental figures in that, in that story were also so accepted and like, in ways that, you know, we are. We don't always think about like a drug dealing black man being like, I know that you're gay and it's okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, right.

[A]

How can we help you? You know what I mean? Like, I. I really, really love the tenderness that they baked into that, to that show, to that movie.

[B]

I love when they make black parents like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, yeah.

[A]

Incredible, incredible Janelle Monae. I just really like that. I like that couple.

[B]

And let me say something. I thought that she was good in that. I've heard people have thoughts about the way that Janelle Monae acts. I really thought she was good.

[A]

I do have thoughts. But she was good in Moonlight.

[B]

I thought she was good at moonlight. And I don't know if I've seen. Have I seen her something else.

[A]

I know you saw Knives Out. I know you did.

[B]

Oh, yes, I did. Yes, I did. Anyways, yeah. Also love her truly wholeheartedly. Hey, met Gala look eight down. Really, really showed. Showed up and showed the up actually. While everybody else was playing and playing it tame and playing it safe. Janelle gonna give it to you how she was supposed to always, period. And yeah, moonlight is fantastic. Just more black love stories that are tender and soft and dark skinned ideally.

[A]

I love it. I Love it. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's making me. I was, like, not hesitant to watch. I knew it was gonna be a good show, but sometimes I'm like, I. That's not the world I want to be in right now. Like, that's not the. Like, sometimes that's not the genre, like, I'm operating in. And so I was, like, taking my time to watch forever. But now that I've started, I mean, I'm acting like it came out a month ago, but, like, now that I've started it, I'm like, oh, this is so cute. It's so cute.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just love the characters. And to your point, like, I love the, like, black girl and the, like. Like. Like, I just. Yeah, it's. It's the blackness of it that I.

[B]

Really, truly love wholeheartedly. Me and Garrick were locked in on this show.

[A]

I, like.

[B]

Like, I was saying up well past my bedtime, we was like, another episode. He was like, yeah, turn it on. Go. We. We locked in. We love a black love story. Down. We did the same thing with Love Life Season 2. I remember actually coming into Garrick's apartment before we lived together, and he was watching it, and he's always watching something, usually something that I'm, like, not particularly interested in, just because he lives in sci Fi world and I don't. And so, you know, usually I'm like, okay, sure, this is on. I was. The moment I laid eyes on whatever was on that screen, I said, hold on. This looked like a little bit of me. As the Brits say, what is this?

[A]

You want to hear something crazy?

[B]

What?

[A]

I'm starting. I like sci fi.

[B]

That's fair. I mean, I like it, too. When I actually sit down and get into it, it just takes me a second to sit down again.

[A]

I would have never put it on, but I like it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It'S a lot of Apple TV stuff. Like, Apple TV has a lot of really good, like, sci fi stuff.

[B]

They're actually exceptional at it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I. We watch a lot of stuff from them, and then. This isn't sci fi. But he also has me watching, and I. I closed my eyes the other day, and he was like, you'll grow up and I won't. What's that damn zombie show? That was a video game. The Last of Us.

[B]

Oh, the Last of Us.

[A]

You haven't watched the Last of Us before? Yeah, I watch it.

[B]

It.

[A]

I watch it every week.

[B]

Oh, you did you watch season one?

[A]

I really like it.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

Yeah, I close my Eyes. Because I don't like them little creatures. And so this week, this after we watched the last episode, they had one of them creatures on the screen for a little too long. I closed my eye, I turned around.

[B]

Yep. And he was like, jewel, they're nasty.

[A]

I don't want to say it.

[B]

I was watching someone octopuses in it today and had to close my eyes because they looked.

[A]

I don't want to sing.

[B]

And they were just regular, real octopuses.

[A]

The thing about it is, like, I can watch something like the Last of Us because I'm here for the storyline, and I like the storyline. I like the characters. Y' all need to keep all of this. I mean, it's the same reason I watch Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon. I'm really not here for the fights at all, whatever. The drama in the castle. Yeah. So I watch it, but, you know, probably not in a way that they want me to.

[B]

Right. And you know what the best episode of the Last of Us is also, or my favorite episode from season one is the one with the black people.

[A]

It was so good.

[B]

It was really good.

[A]

I was wrecked.

[B]

I was wrecked.

[A]

I was that one and. No, that one and the two. The Guy Cup. Were they married? I don't know.

[B]

Oh, my God. That was great. That was.

[A]

Let me tell you something. I said, call up the award committees right today. And I mean now, because I was. I. That tugged at my heartstring in a way that I could not explain. Yeah, I really, really. Those two. The one with the. The black father, son, and then with the. The couple. Those two episodes in the Last of Us, I said, oh, I'm tapped in.

[B]

It was so good. Yeah. The Last of Us be doing stuff. Right. If you have not watched season two already, y' all get ready. Buckle up, because that takes you on a wild ride damn near from the beginning. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that's really it. I don't got nothing else on. Black love. Love Black love. Happy to be, you know.

[A]

Love blackly. What are you. What are you doing?

[B]

Love blackly. Right? I was gonna say love. Happy to be loved by a black man. Yeah. And happy to be consuming and have access to so much black love content. Not. It's not like it's a ton, but, you know, have access to some. Because that's more than we have more.

[A]

Like, because I remember when the last of us came. Not the last of us. I remember when this is Us came out. And like, Bethany, like, my therapist used to be, like, that's a good depiction of A black couple. The way that they probably, like my therapist used to be like, that's what you need to watch. You see how, like the way that they talk to each other and the way that they probably got such a good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like, like, yeah, it was like even back then, which wasn't that long ago. It wasn't like it was a ton of Beth and Randall's, you know, like, it wasn't a ton of black couples who.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Were who had like a healthy marriage, who communicated health, who fought sometimes, but also. Sometimes. But also worked through it and had healthy conflict and like. Yeah, right. It was really nice. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that was a good one too. That's a really good call out. I loved Beth and Randall and I love Sterling K. Brown. Down. And I love this day, him and his actual wife to this.

[A]

Down.

[B]

Down. She's so funny. They're so funny. They have such a good dynamic.

[A]

Because she'd be honest. She'd be like, I would still love you even if you were not with me. Although I would be upset about it, like. And I'm like, good for you, girl. Be honest.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Yeah, she's. I like her. She's funny. Anyway.

[B]

That'S it for today's show. Jewel, please let the folks know where they can find you.

[A]

My socials are at jewelwickershow across all platforms, period.

[B]

And for those of you who want to check us out on YouTube, you can go to YouTube.com black people lovepepperamore. The link will of course be in the show notes. And if you have comments, concerns, love, hate mail and anything in between, you can email me at black peopleupairmoregmail.com or across all social media platforms at BPLPPOD. You can find me on my personal socials at SEQUOIABHOMES and you can find me every day on SiriusXM on Unwell On Air. So you can use the SiriusXM app or if you're listening in your car, you can listen on channel 109 to my radio show called the Daily Dirty. It's live every day from 3 to 4pm that's it. Okay, bye.

[A]

La.