Card Games

Summary

Podcast Summary: Black People Love Paramore – "Card Games" (April 2, 2026)

Episode Overview

Hosts Sequoia Holmes and Ryan Graham delve into the layered cultural meaning of card games within Black communities—especially Black American families. Through nostalgic stories, sharp humor, and cultural critique, the pair explore childhood memories, family rivalry, generational divides, and how card game culture is evolving (or disappearing) for younger Black generations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Card Games as Social Glue in Black Families

• Both hosts emphasize how card games like Spades, Bid Whist, and War are an essential backdrop to Black family gatherings (Thanksgiving, cookouts, holidays).
  • Ryan: “Any family gathering I’ve ever had, there are cards out. Christmas, Thanksgiving, cookouts...That and dominoes.” [12:36]
  • Sequoia: Notes that card games seem particularly Black American, whereas dominoes are popular in Caribbean families, highlighting differences across the Black diaspora. [13:16]

2. The Rules Dilemma: Playing by the Book vs. House Rules

• Sequoia expresses frustration about rule ambiguity, especially in games like Uno:
  • Sequoia: “I don’t like games where the rules change depending on who’s in the room...I want to play by the rules that Uno put in the booklet.” [04:08]
• Ryan argues that making up new rules is part of community fun, paralleling flexible rules to “life” itself—sometimes to Sequoia’s mock horror.

3. Childhood Nostalgia & Sibling Rivalry

• Both reminisce about learning card games as children and the ways card games fostered both fun and conflict.
  • Sequoia recounts how her older brother would “make up the rules” to suit himself, souring her feelings toward Uno. [10:10]
  • Stories about "52 Card Pickup" as a parental trick (“That’s abuse!”) and sibling games like Go Fish and War evoke both laughter and exasperation. [10:35, 11:01]

4. The Generational Card Game Divide

• The hosts discuss a real generational gap in card game knowledge, particularly with Spades and Bid Whist.
  • Ryan: “A lot of Black people our age, like younger millennials and Gen Z, where they’re like, I don’t actually…I don’t know how to play Spades.” [13:46]
  • Sequoia: Admits she’s never learned Spades and describes the “intense” atmosphere that made learning intimidating. [13:52, 16:11]
• This leads to a playful lament about “losing recipes” due to impatient elders not passing along the traditions. [17:10]

5. Explanation of Classic Black Card Games

• With good humor, Ryan breaks down how to play Spades and how bidding works, while Sequoia connects terms like "books" and "reneging" to finally understanding the game. [14:05—14:50, 28:01]
• Bid Whist’s main rule difference is also explained: “The trump suit or no trump option [is] chosen by the highest bidder.” [27:44]

6. Evolution of Card Games: Conversation Starters and Modern Games

• The hosts notice a shift in game culture among their peers, who now favor icebreakers or conversation-based card games (e.g., Cards Against Humanity, We’re Not Really Strangers, Jackbox) over traditional card games. [18:17—19:12]
• Sequoia: “Our card games have become something else. They’re almost a tool for a different game.” [18:30]

7. Competitiveness & Family Dynamics

• Both hosts reflect on their competitiveness. Sequoia claims not to be competitive but admits otherwise, while Ryan traces his competitive streak to growing up with athletic male cousins.
  • Sequoia: “Games where I think I actually can win—I’m competitive about it. Don’t let you underestimate me…” [22:27]
• “Cards Against Humanity” and “Jackbox” are acknowledged as spaces where humor and knowing your audience become competitive advantages. [39:00]

8. Game Explanations and Trivia

• Ryan explains games like Phase 10, Rummy, and the familial appeal of games that blend luck and skill. Apparently, Phase 10 is a family cruise staple. [26:13—27:12]
• Sequoia quizzes Ryan with multiple choice card game trivia (e.g., British name for Go Fish: “Happy Families”; German collecting game variant: translation “Sleepy Head”), leading to much laughter and banter. [32:38—36:12]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Uno & Rule Fights:

  • Sequoia: “If someone puts down a draw four, you must draw four. You don’t get to put down a draw four to avoid drawing four. You also don’t get to put down more than one card at a time.” [07:03]
  • Ryan: “That’s the beauty of Uno is that all of the versions that we did on our own...they end up being like, ‘Oh, we’ll give it to you.’” [07:37]

• Uno as “Unseasoned Boiled Chicken”:

  • Sequoia: “I want to play the white one. That’s the one that I want to play. I want to play the unseasoned boiled chicken version of Uno.” [07:44]

• On Generational Gatekeeping:

  • Ryan: “That’s why we’re losing recipes, and that’s what we’re supposed to make room [for]...” [17:07]
  • Sequoia: “Y’all are not patient with your Black...youngins...I’m just a young ho at the end of the day.” [17:18—17:24]

• On Cards as Family Culture:

  • Ryan: “Even now when we get together, it’s usually for an event...I don’t know that a lot of people are still getting together just to play cards.” [17:57]

• On Learning Cards Later in Life:

  • Sequoia: “Now people be like, you’re too old to not know how to play bidwiz, you’re too old to not know how to play spades.” [16:58]

• On Trivia & Game Names:

  • Sequoia: “Which of these is the British name for Go Fish? ...It is happy family.” [32:46, 33:11]

• On Family Hijinks:

  • Ryan (on “Extreme Spoons”): “We would be playing spoons at the table upstairs and we would put the spoons in the basement. So someone would be like ‘spoons!’ and start sprinting...Barreling down the steps to try to get the spoons.” [34:10]

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |:--------------|:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–03:34 | Opening banter, warm up, merch plug, Ariana Grande discussion (light, skippable) | | 03:40–11:17 | Personal card game backgrounds, Uno rules debate, childhood tales (52 Card Pickup, sibling rivalry) | | 11:17–17:32 | War, Go Fish, Speed, family traditions, and trauma; generational shifts | | 17:32–19:12 | Modern card games as conversation starters (Cards Against Humanity, Jackbox) | | 21:32–24:15 | Reflections on competitiveness, family sport stories | | 26:13–27:12 | Phase 10 explained and praised as a modern family mainstay | | 27:44–28:23 | Bid Whist vs. Spades: game rules explained | | 31:03–37:02 | Card game trivia segment—playful banter and learning moments | | 39:00–41:34 | Cards Against Humanity, Jackbox, Mariah Carey shade and Miss Piggy comparison |

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Tone & Style

• The episode blends warmth, honesty, and classic Black family humor ("drag me if you must") with quick-witted cultural critique.
• Sequoia and Ryan’s banter is sharp but affectionate—reminiscent of cousins at the family reunion table, side-eyeing each other while shuffling a deck.

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Takeaways for New Listeners

• This episode is a vibrant tribute to the role card games play in Black family life, and an exploration of how those traditions shift across generations and cultures.
• Listeners walk away with a renewed appreciation for the common ground and gentle conflict that card games foster, and a few laughs at the ways family, culture, and cards collide.
• There are also practical explanations that help decode famously gatekept games like Spades and Bid Whist—so don’t be afraid to join next time someone asks, “You know how to play?”

Transcript

[Sequoia Holmes]

Foreign. Welcome to Black People Love Paramore, a pop culture podcast not about the band Paramore, but a show about the common as well as the uncommon interest of black people in order to help us feel a little bit more seen. I am Sequoia Holmes. And I'm Ryan Graham. And per usual, if you have fingers and ability, I would love for you to take just one second of your time, just one little iota little piece of your time. Rate us, write us a review. 5 stars only because we are 5 star bwords. I don't curse anymore. I'm different. I'm reformed now. So because we are five star witches, question mark.

[Ryan Graham]

Crazy that you don't curse. But you, you speak of things that the devil like that is very dark sided. You don't think witches, which is.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's Anglo Saxon of you. That's really why that you think witchery is.

[Ryan Graham]

Please go on. Do tell.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I won't go into the history of Christianity right now.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, okay. I'm following. I have the range.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. But I do have the range. And I know that you know that I know that you know that. Anyways, silly.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay. Do you like merch? Do you know that I know? Yes and no.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I keep forgetting to tell y'.

[Ryan Graham]

All. Yeah, you talked about it.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I haven't talked about it lately. Yeah, we have mocha grande merch.

[Ryan Graham]

I didn't know that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, clearly none of you are mocha grande because y' all don't be buying it.

[Ryan Graham]

You know what? Thing is, I don't even know if she herself is mocha grande anymore. She's been, she's been like pretty in her own little bag in her little wicked era for quite a bit.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Speaking of, let's really quick, this is a whole aside side note, you see that she's allegedly teasing Ariana Grande her eighth album. What the girls are like the girls.

[Ryan Graham]

Where have you seen this?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Tick tock.

[Ryan Graham]

What is it? What is she doing?

[Sequoia Holmes]

So here's the clues.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay, thank you.

[Sequoia Holmes]

When she was teasing eternal sunshine, she would only drop pictures like on Instagram, photos of herself color at on a date that ended with a seven. Like March 17, March 7, blah blah. Because it was her seventh album allegedly. And she would only post at 7am or 7pm so that was like a thing. And Yesterday on or two days ago, on March 18, she posted and she posted at 8am Specifically. And what she posted was a photo dump from Max Martin's studio. But it wasn't clear that she was in front of microphone. But if you looked at the background, you could tell that it was Max Martin's studio and Ilya reposted it to his story, who she also works with.

[Ryan Graham]

Heated rivalry.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She.

[Ryan Graham]

She was. He was.

[Sequoia Holmes]

So Max Martin's prodigy.

[Ryan Graham]

Ilya is Ilya, producer of heated rivalry fame. He's a hockey player.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Your favorite TV show.

[Ryan Graham]

Be honest. We can go there.

[Sequoia Holmes]

We should have done a heated rivalry episode.

[Ryan Graham]

Yes, season two.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, season two. But yeah, Max Mar. Ilia reposted that to the story, who was a producer that Ariana Grande works with. Works with on Eternal Sunshine. And then there was one more. Oh, and then, like her. Max Martin liked the photo dump and her dad liked something.

[Ryan Graham]

Whatever.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay, then the girls are. Yeah, the girls are dragging it, but. So she keeps posting on dates that only end with the eight, and only at 8pm and 8am will have further proof that she is, in fact teasing.

[Ryan Graham]

Even her Swarovski Crystals ad came out on the 18th. She said, Even my brand deals, period. The brand doesn't stop.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm not mad at it, but that's neither here nor there.

[Ryan Graham]

That's not what we're doing.

[Sequoia Holmes]

If you're a mocha grande and that appealed to you, go ahead and buy some merch. Thank you very much. We're gonna talk about card games.

[Ryan Graham]

We are. Do you like games?

[Sequoia Holmes]

I love games. Do you like games?

[Ryan Graham]

I do.

[Sequoia Holmes]

A lot of people don't. You know, I found out that people don't like games.

[Ryan Graham]

That's real. Like, I had one of my friends, like, I remember whenever we would play, she was like, if we would have people over, she's like, I don't want to do board games, any of it. She hates all I know.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I find that so weird.

[Ryan Graham]

I agree.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm like, what do you mean? On, like games?

[Ryan Graham]

My go to thing to do when people are over, if there's nothing to do is just like, oh, let's play Uno. Like, I'm like, just break out Uno.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It's such a simple. My thing is, I don't like Uno. I do like games that game I don't like.

[Ryan Graham]

Why?

[Sequoia Holmes]

I don't like. I don't like games where the rules change depending on who's in the room or like, whatever. Like, we need to be playing like,

[Ryan Graham]

astrology, where the rules change based on the wind. Like, what the fuck? Like that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You try. You really tried it. You really tried it. You went too far.

[Ryan Graham]

I did. I'm just. What is the difference between liking Uno rules and liking astrology? So same thing. It changes based on the time and the person you're with. And the space you're in.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Let's see.

[Ryan Graham]

You're upset because it's hitting home. You are angry. Cursing. All of a sudden, we curse.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay, you. And that's where you can go. Look what you brought out of me. Look at what you caused me to become.

[Ryan Graham]

I'm just saying.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Anyways, I don't want to play a game with you guys. Where sometimes you want to stack 800 cards on top of a card. Where sometimes you want to tell me to draw 27 I don't like. And then sometimes you don't. I don't like that. I want to play by the rules that Uno put in the booklet.

[Ryan Graham]

The thing is, is that's the nature of any game.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It isn't. Yes, it is.

[Ryan Graham]

That's how games form. It's like you kind of take a thing and you. You. You morph it.

[Sequoia Holmes]

What's the point of a rule book in games if they morph?

[Ryan Graham]

That is life, baby. That's the. That's the system we live in. What do you mean? There's tons of rules that change based on.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. You know who. You know who you sound like?

[Ryan Graham]

Who? Red pill count is his red pill.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's what you sound like.

[Ryan Graham]

Is winning, baby.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And he and you do have a very similar birthday. Anyways, moving on. You know what?

[Ryan Graham]

That's fair. I do have a similar birthday to Donald Trump. But you know that's the exact same birthday.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Don't you dare. You taking it too far. You're doing too much.

[Ryan Graham]

Miss Piggy. Look it up.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And look up Miss Piggy's birthday.

[Ryan Graham]

I want you all to look at it.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Have you ever seen Miss Piggy and Dom shop in the same room? You haven't?

[Ryan Graham]

Honestly?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Do they not resemble.

[Ryan Graham]

This is the misinformation that I would love to spread.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Right.

[Ryan Graham]

Would make sense. They feel like Roger character. I know that we're talking about card games. That is where we're supposed to be going.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And we will get there.

[Ryan Graham]

They give. Did you ever watch American Dad?

[Sequoia Holmes]

No.

[Ryan Graham]

God, I forgot. American dad is very. Boy. Roger the Alien. You know who Roger the Alien is, right? They both feel like Roger the Alien characters. Both Donald Trump and Miss Piggy feel.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, it definitely feels like Roger the Alien.

[Ryan Graham]

Miss Piggy as well. They both feel.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It feels a little too. A little too. Do you.

[Ryan Graham]

You don't. You're not from. You didn't watch the show.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I can only picture him. Is he.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, is he very kind like most characters that. Because he puts on different Personas all the time, he's not always kind.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay, okay.

[Ryan Graham]

That's the thing. Sometimes.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Anyways, Okay, I don't like that game because you guys.

[Ryan Graham]

We do change the rules a lot.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You guys play. Change the rules, and I don't like games where rules.

[Ryan Graham]

When you do play, if you are

[Sequoia Holmes]

playing Uno, I'm playing by the book.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay, and what does that mean to you? Because I know you never read it, so what does that mean to you? I know you didn't. Don't play. You know you didn't. Okay, fine. You didn't read it. Correct.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'll be having to read it out loud to y' all all the time. We all want to play. I'll be like, okay, so before we start playing, let me tell you how we're playing, because I'm gonna play with y'. All. Please tell me you put down one draw for it. You may not. If you. If someone puts down a draw four, you must draw four. You don't get to put down a draw four to avoid drawing four. You also don't get to put down more than one card at a time.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah. What is that? Hold on. I've never. Don't do that to me. I've never played that game with you. There is. And also, I'm gonna tee for time out. There is a version of Uno that you do have the, like, actively, like, all. Ever drop all of your one color that is actual.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. But people do it in regular version of it now as well.

[Ryan Graham]

And you see, that's the beauty of Uno is that all of the versions that we did on our own, like,

[Sequoia Holmes]

the hood that you play, they end

[Ryan Graham]

up being like, oh, we'll give it to you. They say, we'll give it to you.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I want to play the. I want to play the white one. That's the one that I want to play. I want to play the unseasoned boiled chicken version of Uno. That's what I want to play.

[Ryan Graham]

You know what's crazy? Even the box for the one where you're like, I forget which one. It's like, ulo Uno. Something with multiple colors. The colors are different. It's like, teal. It's like uno flip. It's where the cards flip over, and they have, like, teal, orange, fuchsia, and, like, purple. So, like. And they look like a little bit more, like, a little more.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I like. I like fuchsia. I'll be in. I'll play something.

[Ryan Graham]

But that is the one where, like, on the. When you do the flip so, like, you start playing it As a regular game. As a regular, bland, boiled piece of chicken.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Ryan Graham]

And then all of a sudden, someone brings in a little bit of paprika and a little bit of. A little bit of garlic salt, some. Some peppers, you know, something like that. And it. Boom. Flip all the cards over. And then they're like, whoa, this is very fun. Flip all the car because it's Uno. Flip. So I will lay out in a card. That means we flip the car. You flip. Everyone flips their deck, flips the cards in their hands, and that's when it's the orange, the fuchsia, the. The teal, and the.

[Sequoia Holmes]

So you just see everybody's cards sort of.

[Ryan Graham]

But at this point, we're playing the other side of the card. So the other side have new rules. And that's where it's like, lay down all of your purple cards. So, like, so that. That's when you get rid of all of your things.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I just don't. Yeah. It feels like uno was. Always has some level of friction, like nobody knows which version we're playing. You start playing and people be like, oh, you can't do that. And then other people be like, yes, I can. And then it's just like a whole thing. And I'm like, I think I'm annoyed by this. I don't want to play with you.

[Ryan Graham]

That's why you just lay the rules out in the beginning, and that's what I do.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And then people be mad at my rules. Oh. I'm like, I play the way that it's written in the book. Like, what's confusing? You can't put down all yellow car. You can't put down every draw two to make me draw 16.

[Ryan Graham]

Like, that's not how it works. Yeah, right.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's not how to get.

[Ryan Graham]

That's in your house. I think that's the beauty is that

[Sequoia Holmes]

you and I don't want to play at your. Anybody else's house.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Wow. And I don't want to play at my house either. I'd rather play something else.

[Ryan Graham]

Fair enough.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I would rather play war. Personally, I. I like war.

[Ryan Graham]

Love war.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. And it's such, like, a simple, boring game, but, like, I really like it.

[Ryan Graham]

I think it's one of those things where, like, that and goldfish are probably the first card games people learn. And I think maybe we just stop playing them because it's like they. Something about them feels. They are very simple games, obviously, but, like, maybe it feels childish so people don't. But I can't, because I distinctly can't. Remember the last time I played war, but I have memories of playing with my brother. Like if we were ever like, like on road trip or do something like that, we would like be playing in the back seat. And it was just like, oh, this is a very fun, silly game. Or like goldfish. Like I don't know. Those are fun but like I can't. Did you, do you, did you ever play or when's the last time you played? Can you think of it?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Probably at my grandma's house when I was like 13.

[Ryan Graham]

Do you. Cuz you, you have a sibling, but he was much older so did you guys play?

[Sequoia Holmes]

We played Uno. That's why I don't like that game.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay, well you were traumatized, you know,

[Sequoia Holmes]

because again when my brother's 11 years older than me, when you are the younger sibling, you know, you be like, we're going to play my way.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh right.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And so, and so they just played my way. And then when I started playing with other people and they want to play their way, I'm like, that's not the rules. That's not the rules. And we're going to play the way that I want to play it. And people be like, no. And I'm like, fine, I'm not playing. Now flip.

[Ryan Graham]

So you just flip up now.

[Sequoia Holmes]

52 card pick.

[Ryan Graham]

No one plays. Did your.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Did your parents ever do that to you? No.

[Ryan Graham]

Like if they wanted to like traumatize me by throwing the cards because I. What?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Not, not for a reason. Because they're just like, oh, we're going to play a game. It's called 52 Card Pick Up. And then they stroll the cars and you as a dumb child is like, okay. And then you pick up all 52 cars and it's really just like a distraction.

[Ryan Graham]

That's abuse.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's abuse.

[Ryan Graham]

And we, and we're, we're, we're, we're growing. We're learning from that. That's okay.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's.

[Ryan Graham]

Your parents didn't have to do that to you.

[Sequoia Holmes]

They didn't.

[Ryan Graham]

They cuz my brother. But. Oh, what's. Yeah, that was torture.

[Sequoia Holmes]

He was like, go pick up some cards or something. Like leave me alone. War is great. I was a master at war. How?

[Ryan Graham]

Oh well, you know, maybe they could use you. I mean, what makes you say that? How.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It's like luck game. But I would, I would just like win it. It was like me and my little cousin, she's the closest thing I have to a sister. We used to be at my grandma's house and we would, like, play various card games. Her game was Go Fish. It was better.

[Ryan Graham]

Sure.

[Sequoia Holmes]

At that. Which is also such a luck game in my game was war, because I would always want at that. And that was just like our thing.

[Ryan Graham]

Did you ever play? Because another. I feel like the next step up from war was speed. And like.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh, yeah, we played speed.

[Ryan Graham]

I remember playing it. But like right now, trying to think of the rules. Because I remember there are two decks. Yeah. And there's like two in the middle.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Ryan Graham]

And like, I'm trying to remember the actual function of it. I know, isn't it the goal is to get rid of all of your cards as fast as possible? Like, that's the thing. Like, it's speed. But I'm trying to.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It says speed is a fast paced, two car, two player card game where the goal is to be the first to discard all 20 of your cards. Players simultaneously play cards from their hand that are one higher or lower in value than the two central piles. Oh, yeah, yeah. So there's two piles. Oh, yeah.

[Ryan Graham]

You try to get rid of yours and then you can't play until theirs. Cause sometimes you'll have like all high contrast.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Exactly, exactly. You can't play it.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah, yeah, I remember that. And like, that would also take up so much of my time.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yes. Reid was fun.

[Ryan Graham]

I wonder, like, do you think people, like. I know that, like, lots of families play, but this feels like a distinctly, like, black family gathering thing to me. Like any family gathering I've ever had, there are cards out.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Definitely.

[Ryan Graham]

Like always. Christmas, Thanksgiving, cookouts, Fourth of July. That and Domino's.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I think it's black American. Really? Domino's. Domino's might be more universal. I feel like cars might be black American. Y' all correct me if I'm wrong. And I only have the reference point of getting, you know, Garrick is Caribbean. And they did. And I've never seen a card come out. I do see dominoes come out, but I've never seen a card come out. And that made me wonder. And I've seen both sides of the family. Is Guyanese, it's Trini. And I've never seen cards come out ever. I've only seen Domino's. I'm like, okay, maybe domino's is cross cultural, but maybe cards is black American. I don't know. That's what it seems like.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah. Cause I'm like, anytime I'm around, like my grandparents and my aunts and all them, they love playing once. Spades is everywhere. And I think that There's a distinct generational gap because there's all those jokes from older black shows. And when I say older, I mean early 2000. Play spades. But I'm like, if you talk to. And honestly, I watch you all in the comments.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I know how to play spades.

[Ryan Graham]

Bright as fuck. I know a lot of black people our age, like younger millennials and Gen Z, where they're like, I don't actually.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I don't know how to play space. I'm just gonna be honest right now.

[Ryan Graham]

I know, I know.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Drag me if you must. I don't know nothing about, like, I literally.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, really?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh, you know the first rule of spades, I assume it has to do with the suit of spades.

[Ryan Graham]

Yes. Okay. Spades are gonna be like your trump cards. You like you at the beginning, you are with your teammate. There's two, right? Yes. And it's two teams.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I've seen it played. I just don't.

[Ryan Graham]

Right. And so, like, you. You guess how many cards you were going, how many books you're gonna have is what they're called. And then basically it's like placing a bet on. Based on my hand. I know I have. Because if I have a bunch of spades.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Ryan Graham]

Because they are going to be like trump cards, effectively, we each play a card and it's like, I'm going to beat you all in this round.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay.

[Ryan Graham]

And you have to, like, be strategic when you are playing, like, so you make up.

[Sequoia Holmes]

So you're. When you're making your bid. Are you saying like four books? Yeah, I have like four books or whatever. I know I'm going to get this many books, whatever. And if you don't meet that, you renege.

[Ryan Graham]

And that's what. That's where reneging comes from. I know.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Which, I mean, that's what it is.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah. So it's like, it's like basically like if you say you're going to do something and then you play, you don't have it. It's like, oh, you just so. And it's like, especially when people do it on. Well, maybe I know more about.

[Sequoia Holmes]

No, you do. You gotta eat it.

[Ryan Graham]

Like, when people are like, they all say they have books that they just

[Sequoia Holmes]

don't have to do that. Who would do that?

[Ryan Graham]

Overconfident, like, just cocky. Or they don't know how to play like you because you may have a bunch of like, high cards. So, like, if you have like a king or ace of hearts, in theory, this could be a book or even like a jack, like a Jack or a tin where I'm like, that's high enough. But, like, all it takes is me to have a bunch of spades where if, like, if I don't have any hearts, my two of spades trump's all of it. So it doesn't matter. So I get how you can, but it's just like, that's why it's all gambling. Like, you've heard people. I got two in a possible or three and a half. And then, like, we collectively, like, this is what we think.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You just taught me how to play space right now. I think I just did.

[Ryan Graham]

Your mom Never.

[Sequoia Holmes]

So my family is a bidwiz family.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And I've noticed that as a midwestern thing because you said your folks also played bidwis.

[Ryan Graham]

They do. They played bidwiz spades. And there's one other game, and I can't think of the name of it right now. Gin rummy. Gin rummy. Maybe it's just called rummy.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Something like that. Yeah, I've noticed people from Chicago, people from Detroit, people from the Midwest, people from Kansas City tend to play bidwist. So my family never played spades. I only ever saw bid whist, and I also don't know how to play that. Both of them felt like they were taken way too seriously. Spades and bidwis. I would literally watch my family, like, get angry, get into legitimate fights at the family Thanksgiving, at whatever. Now Thanksgiving ruined. You know what I mean? Now people got real attitudes because somebody reneged.

[Ryan Graham]

It was supposed to be a light. A lighthearted game, bringing the family together, and now it's just drama.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You know what I mean? Very much. Like, I'm like, oh, okay. So every time I would sit there and try to learn it well, and it's hot.

[Ryan Graham]

And the other thing is, is that people, for whatever reason, are not patient about it. They act as if, like, I'm literally 10 years old.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Please, hello.

[Ryan Graham]

Please stop yelling at me.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And now that I've missed that time frame, now that I am redacted age, it's like they have 32.

[Ryan Graham]

You're not even 32.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm 31. Thank you. Okay, so. So. And you are. So I'm 31.

[Ryan Graham]

And you're knocking. The door is cracked.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It's closing. It's not open all the way though.

[Ryan Graham]

Your door. Your hand is on the knob.

[Sequoia Holmes]

If my door is cracked, your door is open.

[Ryan Graham]

I'm past it.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Other way.

[Ryan Graham]

Correct. My 32 door is behind me.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yes, okay, that is true.

[Ryan Graham]

And I have no shame around about the 32 door being behind me anyways.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. Now people be like, you're too old to not know how to play bidwish. You're too old to not know how to play spades. And they're really. They really have ass. And I'm like, okay, so do you want the tradition to live on or not? And that you want me to learn

[Ryan Graham]

the game or not? That's why we're losing recipes, and that's what we're supposed to make room.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Y' all are not patient with your black. What is the opposite of elders?

[Ryan Graham]

Youngins. Younglings.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Siblings with your young hoes. I'm just a young ho at the end of the day.

[Ryan Graham]

The opposite of elders.

[Sequoia Holmes]

YH and YNs. Yes.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. That's exactly. You're just not patient enough. And therefore, I'm not passing on our recipes, and that's that. On that.

[Ryan Graham]

I do also wonder if there is a level of. And we're in California where, like, people having, like, actual, like, home. Homes is different. Where a lot of gatherings happened back home where, like, my grandmother had people over, and then, like, there was a certain point where my mom was having people over. We also had, like, backyard stuff like that. And I wonder if it. And again, we're in California, so, like, it's just different here.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Sure.

[Ryan Graham]

But even when I think of, like, my friends, I'm like, how many of us are having those types of gatherings?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Right.

[Ryan Graham]

Like, I feel like even now, when we, like, get together, it's usually for an event. It's like a concert or it's like a dinner, or it's like a. I don't know that a lot of people are still getting together to, like. We're just getting together to play cards. And I wonder if. You know what I mean?

[Sequoia Holmes]

And if we are getting together to play a game, the likelihood that we're playing something with standard cards is unlikely.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

We're gonna do, like, question cards, or we're gonna do cards against humanity. Or we're gonna do. What do you mean? You know, like, something like that. What's your car. They're.

[Ryan Graham]

Cars are card games. I didn't. But you're so right. I think that our card games have become something else.

[Sequoia Holmes]

They've become something else. They're almost a tool for a different game. Like, it doesn't actually have to be cards. It could be something else, I think,

[Ryan Graham]

especially, like, because even when you think about cards against humanity.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. Or.

[Ryan Graham]

What do you mean? It does feel like a lot of the card games we play now are more conversation starters. Exactly. It's like, it's like, oh, these are opening the door or and then there's like straight up conversation starter card games like we aren't strangers, which I do also love.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I love that. It's very fun. They're not competitive. That's are. They are kind of competitive. I even think I like Jackbox, which is like essentially the same. I love to play Jackbox, which pretty much like who's the wittiest, who's the funniest? And that's when I realized that I am competitive.

[ABFF Announcer]

For 30 years, the American Black Film Festival has been home for bold storytelling and emerging talent. This May, they're celebrating a huge milestone and want you there. Join them for ABFF's 30th anniversary, the homecoming happening May 27th through the 31st, 2026 in Miami Beach. Experience everything ABFF is known for. Hollywood premieres, creator conversations, masterclasses, and best of independent cinema networking and live entertainment all in five incredible days. Everyone has a story and yours belongs here. Get your pass [e-mail] miami and use code PARAMORE10 for 10% off your deco pass. We'll see you in Miami Beach May 27th through the 31st.

[John Hodgman]

This is John Hodgman and Jann Varney coming to you from the flight deck. Please be comfortable. We have now reached our cruising altitude.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh, that's correct.

[John Hodgman]

You are now free to listen to the latest season of E Pluribus motto. As always, this season we'll discuss the Official mottos of U.S. states and territories for your enjoyment. Look out the window. You'll see local iconography and creatures of all sorts. It'll be discussed. Discuss the season, including California quails, Puerto Rican frogs, North Dakota horses, spiders of New Hampshire, and all manner of official and unofficial state crue tints. I've now turned on the enjoyment sign, so please start enjoying new episodes of Eat Pluribus Motto every other week on Maximum Fun. And wherever you get your podcasts, sit back, relax and enjoy your listen.

[Maximum Fun Announcer]

Saginaw, Michigan, Galveston, Texas, Albany, New York, the twin cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul and Muncie, Indiana. We've just added these cities to the growing list of meetups on April 23 for MaxFudd meetup day. Didn't hear your city or don't know where your local meetup is? Head to maximumfun.org meetup and we've got all the details there. And if you still don't see your city listed, host your own. Find somewhere a park, library, cafe, Bar any public space a small group can hang. Then fill out the [e-mail] meetup and we'll add you to the page so other folks in your area can find. That's maximumfun.org meetup. Hope to see you on April 23rd.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Do you consider yourself competitive?

[Ryan Graham]

I actively do not. Whenever I'm in a competitive scenario that everyone. Yeah, your face right now. I do not think I am, but other people, whenever I'm playing anything, are like, yes, you are. But I don't think I am. You know, I have a word from who. Yeah, I have a horse. Reality.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, you're pretty competitive.

[Ryan Graham]

Why would you even ask this?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Put it to the whole youth on the.

[Ryan Graham]

Why would you. Why would you ask if you thought I was competitive? You. I was like, you bought it immediately.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Not you mad at me. Cause you competitive. What the heck?

[Ryan Graham]

That was a trick question. That was a gotcha.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I just want to see what you think about yourself. But that's so crazy because I also would describe myself as uncompetitive, and I stopped doing that once people started being like Sequoia. Be for real.

[Maximum Fun Announcer]

It's.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Ryan Graham]

I'm trying to think of. We certainly have to have played games together. I don't think I have a distinct memory of you being competitive in any of the games. Oh, there is one. So there's a game we played recently, but it was like, not like a card game. That was the first time I think I ever saw you be competitive in a way where I was like, like, ooh, you not happy about that. Like, you were. You even out loud said, I'm a sword.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm too. Yeah. I was like, anytime I'm trying at something and I do not succeed, I'm. Now I'm mad. You know, I mean, like, games where I think I actually can win. I'm competitive about it. If it's a game where I'm like, I don't really think I have a good chance at winning this. And like. Like darts.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah, whatever.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm not, like, I'm not. I don't. Yeah, I'm not going to be competitive about this. Like, this is not my element. I'm with you, but like, something else. Don't let you underestimate me. If I feel underestimated. I'm going to learn darts quick now. I'm going to be the best dart player you've ever seen in your life. Beer pong.

[Ryan Graham]

I was just about to say that's like me.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You know what I mean? Like, I'm good with that one.

[Ryan Graham]

So I. Yeah, I don't. I guess, like most. I think I grew up with, on my dad's side specifically, it was all boy cousins. And 1. Marley is the only girl you've met.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh, my gosh, she must be living the life.

[Ryan Graham]

Truly was the princess of the group. But like, all of them, literally. My brother was like a diver and, like, doe for college. My.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Huh?

[Ryan Graham]

Yes. He got like, a scholarship to dive for. What? Yes. He's a swimmer and diver. Like, so that's why I became a lifeguard, because he did that. So, like, he was like, athletic in that way. My Jacob played in the NBA for a little bit or like, I guess minor leagues, but either way, you know, he played my other cousin, like, literally was like Allstate for football. Like, so all of my cousins were very athletic is what I'm saying. And so I never became competitive in that. And I think maybe that's why I'm competitive in like, board games, stuff like that. Because I think I could always beat them in stuff like that or anything. Like, not, I mean, creative competition. Creative stuff isn't as competitive, but stuff like that I was always better at than all of them. And so I think that's why I probably am more competitive at board games or card games. But like, sports, I'm always like, hey, if you want, I will try to race you, but I'm never gonna care. I'm never gonna care that much about losing.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm just not that fast.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah. And I'm okay with that. Fast for what?

[Sequoia Holmes]

I did trial for track when I was in middle school. I did.

[Ryan Graham]

You did? You tried on the team? What, what, what was your event?

[Sequoia Holmes]

I don't know.

[Ryan Graham]

You what? You just generally tried off. You just went to track and said, here I am try out you.

[Sequoia Holmes]

They said, run. I said, okay. I started running. And they were like, they didn't even

[Ryan Graham]

give you, like, they didn't even let you try field. They didn't like, say, here's a shot put and try. They said, hey. They didn't care.

[Sequoia Holmes]

They said, this one out, baby, you can manage.

[Ryan Graham]

Were you a walking the mile kid?

[Sequoia Holmes]

No, I keep trying to a hot Cheeto girl. You do? You keep trying to make me a cookie monster, pajama wearing, hot cheeto girl that walks the mile.

[Ryan Graham]

Take me one other time that I've done. You did when you.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You. I don't know, but I know that you did. You might forget what they said, but

[Ryan Graham]

you remember how they made you feel. What I'm saying Is I think you're projecting maybe perhaps you were a hot Cheeto

[Sequoia Holmes]

walking the mile. I was not. And I did not walk the mile. I ran the mile and I would always get like mid nine minutes. Like, oh, okay, high nines. Like close to 10. Like 9:49.

[Ryan Graham]

I think that you probably are faster than that. Than you think. That feels like an average adult or like a fast. That's a fast adult.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm sorry, but as a kid, I

[Ryan Graham]

feel like my mile as a kid was young. Was faster than that. And I. Yeah, for sure.

[Sequoia Holmes]

But I'm saying yours standard for people to run like seven minute miles, right?

[Ryan Graham]

Mine was like, yeah, yeah. I was like. Mine was. I wasn't like the fastest in my school, but like mine was in the sevens. And that's what I'm saying. For you to be nine. I feel like you might be overestimating how fast you. You probably did it faster than you think. Maybe because I don't think I was that fast as a kid. I could be, but I was sitting.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Boys were always just like.

[Ryan Graham]

And I guess that's fair. Yeah. Boy. We're card games where we're at.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Phase 10 is one that I don't

[Ryan Graham]

know anything about and that's crazy to me. So that we. So phase 10 is like basically a card game where you are assigned a phase. It's like a blend between uno and like regular cards. So there will be skips, there will be wilds. But the goal is to each round you are in, everyone has their own phase. So like phase one will be like two, two, a run and a set of three. So you have to get three of the same number. And then like a run of like 4, 5, 6. Like you have to get that in your hands.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Three of the same number and a run of 4, 5, 6. Okay.

[Ryan Graham]

And so like that is just like one of the phases. So each 10 phases is a different area.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It's different things that you're aiming at.

[Ryan Graham]

Correct.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It's like, okay.

[Ryan Graham]

And that's what makes it fun because you're kind of like on your own adventure against each other. It's like, it's almost like playing a video game where like we are all playing our own little mini game trying to get to the next level. And then like if you. I can like phase out where I'm like, I phase out and I threw all my cards and you're still stuck on phase one. And I moved to phase two. So it's like you try to beat everybody else while doing your own.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh, that Sounds fun. Now that I like better.

[Ryan Graham]

You do?

[Sequoia Holmes]

It's like that better than Uno. That sounds better.

[Ryan Graham]

And also. Cause it's such a. There's so many times in phase 10. Like, that is like, a standard anytime my family is on. We literally went on a cruise for New Year's Eve, and my mom brought phase 10, and, like, so we would be at breakfast, like, playing phase 10.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Was it fun?

[Ryan Graham]

It was fun. Oh, my gosh.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. Like, I.

[Ryan Graham]

That is. We bonded over playing games like that. Like, it's so fun.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That is so fun.

[Ryan Graham]

But phase 10 is very good. You should. Next time we're together. I recently bought phase 10 because of this. Oh, definitely because of it. It's so fun. There's also something like skip bow, which is another similar. At this point, there's so many card games. Like, it is.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm trying to find the difference between bid, whist and rummy. No, and spades.

[Ryan Graham]

And I mean, because I remember rummy I know is distinctly different. And we played a lot of rummy growing up. Is there not a big difference, or are they the same game?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Well, now I'm just. Look, now. AI overview. Don't want to. Don't want to tell me now? I need a question where I would like for you to AI.

[Ryan Graham]

You know what it is? I think it's because AI is. Is, you know. You know, it's trained by white people and big whiz and space. AI is, like, very black. So. Sorry, I'm not. I'm not familiar with this ethnic thing you speak of.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. I forced it. It says the primary difference between bidwis and spades lies in how the trump suit is determined. In spades, the spade suit is always trump, whereas bidwist, the trump suit or no trump option chosen by the highest bidder. Oh, okay. So I determine what is the trump suit based on what's in my hand.

[Ryan Graham]

Yes.

[Sequoia Holmes]

More or less correct. Okay.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, you said trump too many times in a row. I thought he was gonna spontaneously. It was giving. It was very much giving. Beetlejuice. I was like, please stop. Right. Bidwiz. The difference is that, like, I'm looking at my cards. I have high hearts.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Hearts.

[Ryan Graham]

I'm gonna pick hearts.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. I'll always pick hearts.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Well, now I feel like I can play the game. I feel like I can sit down and, like, play either. Yeah.

[Ryan Graham]

I'm surprised you like, because I don't feel like I even explained it like that. I think that seems.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Because I've watched it, I feel like I. I probably Came in with some level of understanding what was happening, but, like, I knew all the verbiage, and when I see, like, bids or books or whatever, and I'm always like, I don't really know what's happening. But, like, now that you just explained what those verbs mean, I can figure out, oh, they were picking. She picked up a book. Oh, yeah. When he called that out, that's what he was doing. Okay. And that's why they were mad at each other, because he called out too many books, and he didn't have that many books.

[Ryan Graham]

Why would you say five? Why would you say five?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Why would you say that knowing that

[Ryan Graham]

you have three spades and. And a queen of hearts? Shut up. Now, now, Now I'm angry, dummy.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, so.

[Ryan Graham]

But, yeah, you're right.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It.

[Ryan Graham]

See, all it took was a gentle hand explanation.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's what I'm saying. You know, it never has to be

[Ryan Graham]

the way y' all be acting crazy.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Y' all be drag. Dragging it.

[Ryan Graham]

There's another game that my friends and I play when we were, like, on a bunch of train rides, like, to various cities, and we would spend time playing golf where, like, you have, like, six cards in front of you, and you take turns, like, passing cards around to have the lowest score. So I have six cards in front of me, and then we're passing cards in a circle. You would have six cards in front of you. So.

[Sequoia Holmes]

So. So.

[Ryan Graham]

And we would flip them over. And so you get to flip over two at the beginning and say of the six cards, I see a two, and then I see a jack. Jack is gonna be worth 10 points. Two is worth two. So I'm gonna pick up a card and be like, oh, this is a four. I'm definitely gonna swap the four I have for this jack and pass this jack on. And now I know I have a two and a four. And the next time I pick up a card and it's like a six, I can flip over a card that is turned down. And then if I flip it over and it's like, damn, that was an ace. Then I have to pass it to you. And I'm annoyed at myself because you have to.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And now you're gonna.

[Ryan Graham]

And the goal is, because it's golf, you wouldn't have the lowest score of everyone. It's a really fun game, and it's, like, one of those games that, like, takes a lot of time. So it's great for train rides, car rides, playing, like, if you're ever. I love a layover.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Got it.

[Ryan Graham]

I don't know if we talked about this on here, but, you know, I am the. My reason for loving layovers. Although on flights. Yes. Long flights. Long flights, layovers, all of it is because it's like the perfect excuse to be unreachable. And like, no one.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I cannot just be unreachable. Have you ever considered.

[Ryan Graham]

No. What does that mean?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Turn the phone off if you feel.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, you don't tell me that because, you know, I also. I will be like, you will do it. I love a good weekend.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I was gonna say I'm confused. I'm like, you turn the phone off anyway. That's true.

[Ryan Graham]

I'm unreachable. But then I don't feel bad because I'm at a plane. I am. Yes. I know how to turn the phone off. But then I'll feel bad. But when I'm on a plane, I'm like, hey, I think I mean specifically work wise, where I'm like. If I'm traveling, I like nothing of me and I love it. You can't slack.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It's because he got 800 jobs. Pulled it down. So, you know. But you shouldn't. Because I love a paycheck. At the end of the day, that's.

[Ryan Graham]

I love a paycheck. But either.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I have a quick game for us about car games. Okay. It could be multiple choice. It has to be multiple choice.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay, sure. Let's do it.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Which of these is a real card game? Cowboys Cantor.

[Ryan Graham]

Is that a Beyonce album?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yep. Norseman's Knock. Bulldogs Burrow. That.

[Ryan Graham]

Hey did that. That sounds like a fun time.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Dancers Dalliance.

[Ryan Graham]

Dancers Dalliance. Dancers Dalliance. Bull Yards. Butthole Bulldogs Back Ballard. Ballad of a Bulldog. Bulldogs Ballast.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Bulldogs Burrow.

[Ryan Graham]

Burrow. Bulldogs Burrow.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay, I'll give you a hint.

[Ryan Graham]

No, wait. Give me the titles again.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Nocturne Cowboys Canter. Norseman's Knock Bulldogs Burrow. Dancers.

[Ryan Graham]

Only one of them is not right.

[Sequoia Holmes]

One of them is.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, it's Dancers.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Dalliance is the real one.

[Ryan Graham]

Yes. I don't know why that came to me in a dream. That like, that was like a download.

[Maximum Fun Announcer]

Damn.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, they be down. You can't trust your must be your guys your guys don't mess with you at all all they. Yeah, they steering you.

[Ryan Graham]

I'll be loud and wrong all the time. Did you see how confident I was in that Dancer D. What is a dancer's dalliance? That. Is that. Is that an opera?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Somebody made that up.

[Ryan Graham]

Is that a ballet?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Somebody made that up.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, wow.

[Sequoia Holmes]

The one that is Real is Norseman's knot.

[Ryan Graham]

Of course.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It is not American. Well, it is a trick taking game.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, duh. That makes sense. Because of like Norse gods.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Loki.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Part of the Rams family of games. The American version is called round number two. Which of these is the British name for go fish?

[Ryan Graham]

Fun.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Coming home. Duck hunt. Happy families. London Bridge.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay, I don't think it's London Bridge because that is a song.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay.

[Ryan Graham]

And also I do think it is a card game, but I think it's a separate card game. Happy family feels silly. Okay? So I feel like it's not that. Give me the first two again.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Coming home and duck hunt.

[Ryan Graham]

Well, duck hunt is the only thing that makes sense. But that's also a game game.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay.

[Ryan Graham]

That's an actual game. So I'm not gonna guess that. But coming home feels wrong. It's London bridge.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. It is happy family. God.

[Ryan Graham]

See, the thing is that I don't. I listen to my guides in the wrong way because I immediately was like. I heard them say guides and I was like, yeah, right.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's so silly. You said family. Happy family.

[Ryan Graham]

That's.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I mean, I get it now because you're rejoining pairs. Is that so you're reunion.

[Ryan Graham]

In this very moment, I realized how goldfish functioned. It is literally go. Got any fours? And like, it's like I'm putting my fourth.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Right. All right, question three. Pig, donkey and spoons are all popular examples of a card collecting game.

[Ryan Graham]

I have to hold the moment for spoons.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Spoons is great. Snatch them spoons.

[Ryan Graham]

I. I guess I. I know that it is a cards game, but I forget that it is because it is more about an assault. Like it is more of. Let me tackle everybody. Did you guys ever play extreme spoons? That was what me and my cousins did. No where. And this is. We. We would get in trouble.

[Sequoia Holmes]

What is that about holes in the walls?

[Ryan Graham]

So like, so we would be playing spoons to the table upstairs and we would put the spoons in the basement. So like, like, so someone would be like spoons and start sprinting. And we would all bear. Like, there's like seven of us. And we would like men, boys and Marley.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh my gosh. You're probably getting beat up.

[Ryan Graham]

And we were like running like barreling down the steps to try to get the spoons.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh my God.

[Ryan Graham]

Exchange moves was so fun.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh, I know y' all was breaking y' all next on themselves. Yeah, I know somebody didn't fell and busted a hole in the wall.

[Ryan Graham]

You know when like I mean, like, when it's indented. Did they never. You know. I guess you didn't really grew up with, like, little boys like that. Yeah, that was.

[Sequoia Holmes]

No. Yeah, no.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah, we would, like, definitely, like, like, rough housing and, like, you, like, you break the drywall.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I don't have time for that. Oh, my God. Anyways, okay. Pigs, Donkey, and spoons are all popular examples of card collecting games. Yeah. In which players simultaneously give cards from their hand to a neighboring player until they collect all of a certain family.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay.

[Sequoia Holmes]

The German variant of this game is called.

[Ryan Graham]

I hope they're German words.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Ryan Graham]

I love it. Your face tells me that they're gonna be words. Can you. Yeah, no, I need you to keep going. Ein kunshin. Sure.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay.

[Ryan Graham]

What?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Noi house.

[Ryan Graham]

Gib. T. Gibti. Unt. Gibti.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Unto naming.

[Ryan Graham]

Gibty. Naming period. I think I'm saying it right.

[Sequoia Holmes]

No, you gotta eat.

[ABFF Announcer]

Okay.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah, Eat Asian Dibling.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That one's too hard, y'. All. I'm just gonna tell you it's.

[Maximum Fun Announcer]

That's.

[Ryan Graham]

No. Oh, yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

In the translation of sleepy head.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, that's fun. That's fun.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That one involves slapping.

[Ryan Graham]

I just love you reading German.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That was bad. Oh, my God.

[Ryan Graham]

You took these away from the.

[Sequoia Holmes]

The.

[Ryan Graham]

I don't see these answers or these games in the theme, which is fun, but I wish I could read them because now I want to know what they actually.

[Sequoia Holmes]

What's crazy is, can I see them? The producer put the pronunciation, so I'm reading the pronunciation.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, you. I thought you were actually.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That was me reading the pronunciation, so that without it. Oh, you know what? If I looked over, I probably would have done a better job if you

[Ryan Graham]

looked at what the actual words were.

[Sequoia Holmes]

If I looked over at the actual word, I probably would have been. Okay. Tbh.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah. Growing new house.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I know, because that's. That's here.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah, you should have just read. Yeah, okay.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You know I can't read. No, not too much. Not too much. Stop. Stop showing. I can read so well. Good for you. Question four.

[Ryan Graham]

Okay.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's the last one.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah, I didn't look at that yet.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Rummy is a type of card game about matching cards of the same rank sequence and or suit.

[John Hodgman]

Okay.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Which of these is not a rummy variant? Michigan Rummy. Wow. Dummy Rummy.

[Ryan Graham]

Wow.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Running rummy. Hand and foot.

[Ryan Graham]

That is a baby disease.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Hand, foot, and mouth.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, God. Right?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Hand, foot, and mouth is a baby disease. Yeah, I know, because one of my

[Ryan Graham]

co workers just had it as an adult.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Just got it.

[Ryan Graham]

Yuck.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And we were all terrified. We're like, I should. You know, I ain't got no job. But one of my former co workers from last year, when our job was talking to the microphone, she was. A child was coming in. We're talking about, oh, I have to miss work because I'm hand, foot, and mouth.

[Ryan Graham]

That's my mouth.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Be too close to the same stuff that your mouth be too close to.

[Ryan Graham]

I'm awesome.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And how did you get it?

[Ryan Graham]

You're 30 and has no children.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Has no children.

[Ryan Graham]

See it? Where did this come from?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Playing basketball. What does that mean? I don't know.

[Ryan Graham]

That's like a boy in my high school theater. Boy. Who I actively don't think is gay. But it was very funny at the time. He went to Boy Scout camp and came back with mono. And so I know we were all like, well, that is the kissing disease. But it was very funny at the time. Sorry. The options are Dummy Rummy. Michigan Rummy. Runny rummy.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Running Rummy.

[Ryan Graham]

Hand, foot, and mouth.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Hand and foot. Yeah.

[Ryan Graham]

Head, shoulder, knees and toes. I feel like Michigan Rummy's real. I think dummy. No, it's running Rummy. That feels silly. Running. One of them is wrong. Running Rummy. That's it. Yeah, that's good.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's good. I thought running Rummy was gonna be the real. I thought that was the only real one.

[John Hodgman]

Oh, really?

[Ryan Graham]

Michigan Rummy I've heard of. So that's what I knew that was true. Dummy Rummy, I thought was. But I'm like, I feel like as

[Sequoia Holmes]

a Midwestern, I would know Michigan Rummy. How fun.

[Ryan Graham]

I love a good card game.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, I do. Like, I like a good game in general. Do love a good card game. Love cards against humanities. I'll be. I'll be snatching up the book. Books and cars against humanity. I'll be, Whoo. Don't let me know my audience.

[Ryan Graham]

That I think that's the thing about Cards Against Humanity is that, like, it's same with, like, Jackbox. It is so dependent on the people you're with. Because there are rooms where I am, where I'm like, I'm hilarious.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And sometimes I do the money spread with the amount of cars that I have collected from Cars Against Humanities. I have several pictures of me money spreading with it.

[Ryan Graham]

Shut up. But have you ever been in a room where you're like, oh, these guys?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Absolutely. And I said, oh, you guys don't have a sense of humor.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah. They're wrong.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. But Because I'm always gonna make a dark Humor, joke. Like, that's the thing. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. As far as I can push, I'm probably gonna push it.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know that's the type.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And that's what's funny to me. Right? So I don't think we ever played cards against humanities.

[Ryan Graham]

I'm sure we literally. I'm sure we have at some point, but, like. Yeah, I can't think of a time.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm sure I was tearing you up. We definitely played Jack. We played.

[Ryan Graham]

Yeah, I do love jackbox. I also. I used to do that. Covet is when I really would. Would play with my friends from Missouri or, like, me and my family would get on and play Jack. I love.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I do love jackbox.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, my God, it's so fun. We should have jackbox night, actually.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You know, we really should do that soon.

[Ryan Graham]

Oh, I bet we probably could do a live. Do you guys want us to do a live jackbox?

[Sequoia Holmes]

You guys want us to do a live jackbox? That would actually be so fun. Maybe you guys play with us.

[Ryan Graham]

Get it? My. My computer's falling apart. Yeah, just the COVID Ghetto. This is Ghetto Child.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It is. Well, that's it. That was a good note to end the episode on. Thank you so much for staying with us. We really kind of improvised that one. And we ate it. Yeah, and we ate it. We did eat it up. Not everybody, you know, I mean, not

[Ryan Graham]

everybody could do it. And number one, not everyone has that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Ryan Graham]

So do you know what that's from?

[Sequoia Holmes]

What is that from?

[Ryan Graham]

That is Mariah Carey shading Nicki Minaj on American Idol when someone was singing, I believe it was a Mariah Carey song. She goes, yeah, you're singing the number one song. It's a tough thing to do. Not everyone has one.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I know Nicholas was seeing to her stomach. See, you know, she won her accolades. You know, she won her thing.

[Ryan Graham]

God, it was so Mariah Carey. This is. I'm sorry, not about card games at all, but Mariah Carey is like a master class at shade.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She really.

[Ryan Graham]

She's so good.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Like, she doesn't get flustered ever.

[Ryan Graham]

And also the thing she says, like, often they have a layer of thought that is, like, how do you think of that? Like, remember when she was on Breakfast Club and they were like, oh, do you have any Eminence? Blah, blah, blah. It was. No. They asked him, like, oh, what do you think about Eminem? Blah, blah, blah. And she goes, what? She goes, eminem.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She goes, this is Godiva talking about the chocolate that is. It was so funny.

[Ryan Graham]

So funny. God, I love Mariah Carey.

[Sequoia Holmes]

So speaking of Miss Piggy. Miss Piggy and Mariah Carey coded 100%.

[Ryan Graham]

Yes. The I.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Not visually. Just energy wise and not, not visual. Not. Yeah.

[Ryan Graham]

I'm going to say, and I don't mean that in a shady way.

[Sequoia Holmes]

No, I don't.

[Ryan Graham]

Like, I'm certain in the way that, like, BR or Ms. Piggy is modeled after Minia Diva. I'm certain Mariah Carey is on the move.

[Sequoia Holmes]

On the move. 1,000%.

[Ryan Graham]

I'm certain she's on the move.

[Sequoia Holmes]

100% correct. That's it. You know where you can find us at bp, LP pod across all social media platforms. And we will see you next time.

[Ryan Graham]

Bye.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Bye.