Fan Mail

Summary

Black People Love Paramore – “Fan Mail”

Host: Sequoia Holmes
Co-hosts: Jewel Wicker, Ryann Graham
Date: December 22, 2025
Episode: Fan Mail

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Episode Overview

This special “Fan Mail” episode centers on listener questions, advice requests, and feedback, with Sequoia, Jewel, and Ryann reacting candidly and playfully to a range of topics reflecting Black pop culture interests and community experiences. The trio’s trademark humor, honest insights, and camaraderie shine as they dissect everything from awkward crushes and post-pandemic dating woes to workplace microaggressions and making friends as adults.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Being "Robotic" with White People at Work

[02:48–07:35]

• Fan Question: How to be less “nice” to white people, specifically aiming for "robotic interactions" in response to systemic issues.
• Ryann: Warns that being emotionally closed/robotic may backfire, particularly at workplaces; suggests being “fake nice” or, better yet, a neutral “NPC” (non-playable character) – nondescript but pleasant.
• Jewel: Empathizes, shares experiences of being told to “smile more” at work, recounts challenges and pushback when not performing emotional labor:

  “You are not gonna get a smile out of me ... I’m not suggesting nobody else do it. It has worked out for me because the minute I’m blunt is because ... I’ve been very nice for a long time.” [05:19]

• Sequoia: Outlines safe, surface-level engagement strategies – engaging without volunteering personal details – necessary for job security:

  “Something I’ve noticed about white people is ... when they want to interact with you ... and you are not giving that interaction, your job’s on the line. Unfortunately, yes.” [05:06]

2. Podcast Evolution, Live Shows & Audience Interaction

[10:17–13:50]

• Reflect on Jordan (former co-host) moving on, discuss plans for future live podcasts, especially in LA (“If you want it, let us know!” [11:39]).
• Jewel and Ryann reminisce about chaotic in-person energy (“It’s even more chaotic in person. Is different,” [12:25]) and recent trips.

3. Nostalgia and TV Reboots

[13:52–17:24]

• Listener request for a reboot episode sparks debate over 90s/00s shows coming back (Gossip Girl, Bel-Air, Rugrats, All Grown Up).
• Group agrees Bel-Air stands out as one of the better reboots (“Bel Air is probably one of the better reboots,” [14:34]).
• Sequoia roasts attempts to reboot Glee and Pretty Little Liars; general agreement that many attempts flop.

4. Dating in 2025 – Apps, Gender Roles & Transactional Relationships

[19:24–32:44]

• Fan Question: Is dating worth it in this climate?
• Ryann: "The apps are also just making money off us … If your goal is to end up in a relationship and find a partner, what else are you gonna do? You have to date." [19:44] Cites games in queer and straight dating, issues in “the pits” of dating apps.
• Jewel: “Not all men … sometimes you get a partner and now you just got an extra bill and an extra burden.” [23:06]
• Explores the new culture of expecting gifts or money before meeting (“…the requirement to me meeting you in person is a Chanel bag,” [24:59]) and the influence of “female rap” on relationship norms.
• Sequoia and Ryann stress there is no shame in transactional relationships, but honesty (“If you are... asking a man to fly you out somewhere, the implicit expectation is that he is going to get sex out of that. If you... show up, you not putting nothing out. That's how you end up sitting at the airport,” [26:38]).
• All agree: be clear about intentions and compatibility, avoid building fantasies about people you don’t truly know.

5. Making Friends as an Adult

[37:13–49:45]

• Fan Question: Advice on making friends in late 20s/early 30s for a non-drinking, non-creative person.
• Jewel: Advocates “friend stealing” by building community through existing friendships and shared circles (“I met one friend… and I took the whole group,” [39:24]); stresses repeat interaction and compatibility as the root of real friendship.
• Ryann: Recommends joining activities/classes that match your interests (even book crawls, [40:24]) and being open to compartmentalizing friendships (“Not about quantity, it’s about quality,” [49:12]).
• Sequoia: Encourages routine and becoming a “regular” in neighborhood spots, highlights importance of in-person interaction for forging bonds.

6. Insecure – Issa's Best Relationship

[49:45–55:40]

• Fan Question: Who was Issa’s best relationship, and who should she have ended up with?
• Sequoia: “I think Issa’s best relationship was Lawrence, and I think she should have ended up with Lawrence in the end. And I’m happy that she did.” [50:08]
• Jewel: Notes the show’s realism – “relationships aren’t always neat and tidy” [50:32]; supports the series' mature ending.
• Ryann: Wishes Issa had ended up alone; all agree the strongest relationship was with Molly (her best friend).
• Amusing moment recounting Sequoia mistaking the actress who played Condola for an actual friend at a party ([53:03]).

7. Deep Dive: Unrequited Crush & Ghosting

[59:40–74:35]

• Listener’s long, detailed question about pursuing a crush (living in another city), being ghosted, and processing rejection.
• Jewel: Empathetic advice to let go – “If a man likes you, you’ll know. If he don’t, you’ll be confused. If there’s any kind of confusion, he don’t like you enough. Get the hell on.” [63:38]
• All three deconstruct the listener’s attachment to a fantasy of a connection, encourage shifting focus inward, and warn against over-analyzing his actions or his new girlfriend.
• Ryann: “It seems when someone likes you, it is, I imagine—no, not even imagine—it is, pretty clear. If you have to do this much, you’re just doing it to yourself.” [62:53]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jewel, on emotional labor at work:
  “Because I’ve been in meetings where I have been very nice. I have overly been … accommodating. ... ‘Jewel, you’re not smiling, fix your face.’ Or ‘Jewel, why do you seem unhappy?’ Maybe it’s because y’all done played in my face the last four meetings.” [05:19]

• Ryann, on dating in 2025:
  “The apps are bad. They don’t show you people that you really want to be with … If you are someone who dates men … games, games, games.” [19:44]

• Sequoia, on workplace survival:
  “Something I've noticed about white people is when they want to interact with you ... and you are not giving that interaction, your job's on the line. Unfortunately, yes.” [05:06]

• Jewel, on recognizing reciprocal interest:
  “If a man likes you, you'll know. If he don't, you'll be confused. If there is any kind of confusion, he don't like you enough.” [63:38]

• Jewel, on friend-making:
  “Meet friends through your friends because you like your friends. ... I got so many friends that went to UGA. I ain't never stepped foot on that campus for school because I met one person ... and I took the whole group.” [39:24]

• Sequoia, on the “Chanel bag” first-date culture:
  “It feels so entitled ... You must not have that energy ... You're not giving up coochie, that's what it is.” [28:54]

• Sequoia, on the importance of activity for connection:
  “I have to take care of my body. I have to work out anyways. So I’m gonna go to the same class ... talk to these same people ... one day I’m gonna ask ‘Do you want to go to coffee?’ and our friendship is gonna be started from there.” [42:18]

• Jewel, on relationship priorities:
  “You want to be in the right relationship … not just any relationship.” [71:19]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:48-07:35] – Workplace boundaries & neutrality for Black people with white colleagues
• [10:17-13:50] – Podcast updates, live show brainstorming
• [13:52-17:24] – Nostalgic TV reboot discussion
• [19:24-32:44] – Modern dating, relationship economics, gift culture, and “the Chase”
• [37:13-49:45] – Making friends as an adult, practical advice
• [49:45-55:40] – Insecure recap & relationship analysis
• [59:40–74:35] – Listener crush/ghosting advice sesh; real talk on letting go

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End-of-Episode Wrap-Up & Listener Stats

[76:02–82:08]

• Sequoia reveals Spotify Wrapped stats for the podcast:

  1. Beyoncé
  2. Taylor Swift
  3. Kendrick Lamar
  4. Bad Bunny
  5. Drake

• Plans teased for a possible Taylor Swift-themed episode ("I said I'm gonna do a Taylor Swift episode in 2026," [77:18]), and encouragement for fans to share feedback for more fanmail segments or live shows.

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Tone & Style

• Signature blend of honesty, irreverent humor, vulnerability, and cultural specificity.
• Candid group-therapy energy, plenty of self-aware jokes, and loving shade (“You do give: Come sit and gossip with me." [09:52]).
• Frequent gentle ribbing about each other’s quirks, boundaries, and (lack of) party energy.

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Final Takeaway

This “Fan Mail” installment is a perfect sampler of Black People Love Paramore: supportive, hilarious, and full of solidarity and unvarnished perspectives—aimed at making Black “scene” kids (and anyone else) feel “seen.” The co-hosts offer advice that is practical, nuanced, and rooted in community: set boundaries, value yourself, find connection in shared spaces, and be real about what—and who—you actually like.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Black People Love Paramore pop culture podcast. Not about the band Paramore, but about the common and uncommon interests of black people. In order to help us feel a little bit more scene, I am your host, Sequoia.

[B]

I'm Ryan.

[C]

And I'm Jewel.

[A]

And today we're doing a fan mail episode. So we asked y' all to send us some stuff, whether you needed advice from us. You had questions for me, Ryan, or Jewel, you had general thoughts you wanted to share, anything of the sort. We were ready. Oh, I also got some emails. Oh, I did. Yeah. Let me look. Let me.

[B]

I would also like to add, like, I'm excited. I have enjoyed intentionally not looked at anything. So these will be raw responses.

[A]

Raw unfiltered responses.

[B]

Raw back bathroom. What do people say? What are. When they comment on people? Raw.

[C]

Raw bathroom.

[B]

I mean, until the room.

[A]

That's what people say.

[B]

Yeah, until the room stinks.

[C]

That's the raw bathroom got to do with anything.

[A]

Have you never.

[B]

That's. That's quite common for gays to have sex in bathrooms. That's like, not. Not.

[C]

But the. But the con. That's fine. But the common is just raw period bathroom.

[B]

Like, yeah, like, raw period bathroom. Now, like, immediately.

[C]

Oh, okay. The now gives a. Like, ooh, like, five minutes right now.

[B]

You know, have you ever made out with someone in a bathroom or in a. In a club or that's not your partner? Have you, like, you met this night?

[C]

Where was it? Where would I have been?

[B]

I don't know, Jewel. That's why I'm asking.

[C]

I don't. I didn't go out enough to be encountering people that I suddenly have made out with.

[B]

Even in college, you didn't.

[C]

You know, I have been this way. I have been this mom. I literally, one time, my mama was like, leave the house. And I was like, I just don't want to go. And she was like, go.

[A]

Get out. Get out.

[C]

Like, I just was never a party.

[B]

Young and fun.

[C]

Sometimes I do wish I would have pushed myself a little more. But honestly, I am who I am and ain't a reason for me to be somewhere that I ain't having fun.

[A]

Pretty much.

[C]

And I could be sleeping very much.

[B]

Fair enough. Yeah, fair enough.

[A]

I love sleep. I need to get. I need to get some. Okay, I have our first piece of fan mail. Are y' all ready?

[C]

No.

[A]

Here we go. From. Well, I don't know if people want me to say who it's from, so I won't. But you'll know. You'll know.

[C]

Who?

[B]

Yeah, we do know. We know this person.

[A]

No, we don't.

[B]

Oh, okay. Understood. Understood.

[A]

The message says 2025 has shown me that I need to stop being nice to white people. This does not mean I want to be rude or anger them. Instead, I just want to have the most robotic interactions I can with them. They revoke my rights, I revoke my kindness. So any advice for how I should go about this?

[B]

Okay, I do understand.

[A]

I do, I do. I really do.

[B]

I feel like it might backfire. That would be my thing. Is that like being robotic to all white people on a blanket level, I imagine is going to backfire and think about like jobs. I think what if you did the opposite where instead you were like fake nice. Like you let them think that they are like in your inner circle and then you just. You never. Does that make sense? No. Like, you know, that sound like a lot of energy too. No, you're not doing that.

[A]

Jewel sound like a lot of energy too. You could really just. Here's the thing, smile and nodded and that's fine. Yeah.

[C]

I also think like, I get it. I totally get it. And also I've been thinking about like how as a society the empathy across it's just going downward and downward and downward. We relate to each other less and less. We got less patience, less empathy for each other. And I do think it's making us worse. I don't think you have to be nice to everybody. I am not. When we go. When they go low, we go high person. We can take it to hell if we need to take it to hell. But I also think sometimes we don't always have to take it to hell. You know what I mean? And I think like sometimes I don't have to. Like, I think it's a case by case basis to me. I get it and I get the reaction of like this might not register as safe to me, so I'm gonna be short with everybody. I do think it backfires and I do think like, as a society we are getting worse and worse with like our abilities to connect that we ain't started. We ain't started. But I do think like, you know, it's getting worse.

[A]

Yeah. I think you can interact with white people without entrusting in them, you know, that's. So you certainly can keep it very service level. You can definitely do some. Yeah. Wow. How was your weekend? Yeah, my weekend was so good. Meanwhile, you, you don't say what you did this weekend. You don't say nothing like that. You say my weekend was really good. How was yours? What'd you do? They say you're like, whoa, that's so cool. That's so fun. And you leave it at that. They come away feeling interacted with. You didn't tell them none of your business. And that's that. Because something I've noticed about white people is when they want to interact with you, especially in a professional workplace setting, and you are not giving that interaction. Your job's on the line. Unfortunately, yes.

[B]

Your job.

[C]

I've had that happen to me. That's the thing, though. That's when my ability to perform and shut down. I will take it to hell at that point. Because I've been in meetings where I have been very nice. I've been very professional. I have overly been. I've been overly accommodating. And then it's like, jewel, you're not smiling. Fix your face. Or Jewel, why do you seem unhappy to be here? Maybe it's because y' all done played in my face the last four meetings.

[A]

Am I not allowed to be on.

[C]

I'm here. I'm doing what I said I was gonna do. You are not gonna get a smile out of me. And I personally, I'm not. I'm not suggesting nobody else do it. It has worked out for me because the minute I'm blunt is because you. I've now. You've given me several chances. Like, I've been very nice for a long time. And so when I finally give you the like, did I need some distance? People can't do double respect.

[B]

Jewel. Don't get these people fired.

[C]

I'm just saying. I'm not saying you have to be rude. I'm not saying you have to be rude. But you. I don't have to smile just because you just asked me to damn smile.

[A]

And I'm not going to. In fact, because you. I'm not gonna smile.

[C]

I'm not. And now I'm. Right now I actually.

[A]

Amazing.

[C]

Because you're pissing me off.

[A]

You think I'm a fucking. Again.

[C]

They already accept that when they know they done played in your face. Yeah, like, you know, you done played in my face. I'm showing up to the call. I've done everything you've asked me to do. I've been very professional and kind of.

[B]

Leave it.

[A]

That's that.

[B]

I guess my thing is, like, maybe it's not robotic. Because when I think robotic, I think emotionless. I think sequoia. You did a good job of, like, it's npc. That is the thing. Be An NPC like your, your, your sheen of just like I am nondescript, pleasant person. And like that way, like you say, it's nothing personal, it's nothing where they know anything new about you, but it's just like a general, like they can't, they can't come back at you with like a attitude. It's like, I didn't have an attitude. I was pleasant. Like neutrally pleasant. I think NPC is better than robot because robot can read as attitude, even if it's not. But I get it, especially in these times. I definitely have had to reevaluate some of my friendships with white people because of some of their alignments, political alignments, where I'm like, oh, no, there's just way too many people where I'm like, yeah, I thought you were be like, I don't know, a decent human. And then I'm like, oh, you. We don't align. And so I do understand, like walking into rooms with white people sometimes and thinking. I used to just be like, oh, I can generally trust these people. And now I'm kind of like, prove it. Maybe that's me being naive.

[C]

I think that. I think that's probably though my disposition with everybody. I'm always like, every. No, everybody is not my friend. And so like, I can be nice to people. And also I don't have to be overly friendly.

[A]

I don't know you.

[C]

I ain't got to volunteer my life information. I ain't got to do none of that because I don't know.

[B]

Jewel's idea of being friendly is also standing with her arms folded.

[A]

That is so true. It's so accurate.

[C]

The one thing I want to say is y' all can't get the stories right. What do I do, Jewel?

[B]

We will be together. And you're like, I'm having a good time. Arms folded, standing, face scowling.

[A]

Scowling like resting bitch face to the.

[C]

I'm taking it all in and I'm overstimulated. God forbid I show up and I'm trying to process. The funny thing is though, like, if you talk to some of my other friends, they're like, jul, you're so bubbly. You always, oh, hi. They're like, turn it off like. They're like, turn it off like. And then somebody called me extroverted the other day. I want y' all to figure out what it is. Cuz everybody's giving different. I can't. What's the truth?

[A]

I had the bubbly experience. Maybe we'll get there. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like bubbly. I would certainly funny, certainly witty, entertaining. I think we can have a, like, you know, friendly.

[C]

Do you think I'm friendly?

[A]

No.

[B]

I think in the sense, like, if you don't have anything nice to say, come say it to me. You are that friend where it's like, oh, come gossip with me. Come say something 100% that I love it. I. I appreciate it. This is me who suffers from resting friendly face where like everywhere I go, people genuinely are like, oh, I guess I'm just like super approachable when there are times where I want to be left alone. During the Grinch episode where I was like, I don't know that I am that friendly, but I think I read.

[A]

Insanely friendly.

[C]

You're the most. One of the most friendly people I know.

[A]

Silly that you would say that.

[C]

Now. The funny thing is I try to use that resting face as a reason for people not to talk to me. And yet I think you're just small.

[A]

You seem really unthreatening, but you have a face.

[C]

All the issues you got with your mama. Now I know you and your best friend in cahoots and what are y' all gonna do about it? Because y' all didn't fell out. And what do you think? And I'm like, did I ever give the impression.

[B]

You do give? Come sit and gossip with me. And I think that is maybe where that comes from. I really do feel like you give like, oh, I can.

[C]

That's not even gossiping. Gossip to me is like fun. You crying and telling me about your life, like, that's not gossip. That's therapy. Anywho, that's the advice.

[A]

Okay, but.

[B]

Okay, I say be npc, don't be robot. That's my. My two cents on that.

[A]

I say be what you want to be, but no, one of them might put your job at risk if you are in a workplace. That's all. Which is fine. Sometimes. Sometimes it's worth it.

[C]

Sometimes I don't want to be here.

[A]

Right. Next question or next next message. Should I say I absolutely love you three? Ryan, Sequoia, Jewel. Whatever happened to Jordan, your Connecticut co host? Regardless, I get so excited to listen to you all each week. You guys are so funny. Have you ever thought about taking the podcast live somewhere? Also bring back song of the week. Spotify just released their rap this month. Do an episode with that with Jewel. Music is so subjective now. It can be hard to keep up. I wish to pod nothing but success and love. Thank you so much. I'LL answer your first question. Jordan. It just didn't work out. And so Jordan hasn't been with the show in like four years. Yeah, maybe like, maybe like four years, maybe three and a half years. Is love Jordan down. He's doing big stuff in New York City. He has the Jordan show. Um, he's. Yeah, he's fun. Having a good time. What else? Have we thought about taking the podcast live somewhere? We were talking about it yesterday. Me and Ryan were talking about it yesterday.

[B]

I think it would be really fun to do like a live show.

[A]

We were.

[B]

No, it wasn't. The thing is, I know you know, but I'm saying we literally were like, oh, we would just tell Jewel to get on the plane. We said you would come out any day.

[A]

Yeah. We have our biggest audience in la, so we were like, oh, we could just do a live show here. So if you guys are interested, listen, if y' all are listening right now and y' all are like, oh, I would love to go see y' all live. Leave a comment on Spotify, leave a comment on YouTube, say something. Message me, let me know. Because if I don't know it's not happening, but if I know that y' all would like that, I'm happy to do it.

[B]

Then we can make.

[A]

Then we can make some shade, you know, don't have me book a location and sit there and talk to myself. That's what I. That's what I don't want to do.

[C]

On a five hour flight.

[A]

Right. To go pull up and talk to me and Ryan.

[C]

As much as I would like to see the two of you. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

I agree. No, I fear. Yeah, that's what I, I do think if you want it, let us know because that would be, I think, would be a lot of fun.

[C]

I think it'd be a lot of fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think also our energy together is as much fun as it is through.

[C]

In person is even more chaotic. In person is different. Is different. I feel like we went to New Orleans recently for my birthday in October and we like whenever the three of us are like in the same city, it's so much fun.

[A]

It is fun. Yeah, I do. Let us know.

[B]

We do gang up on. Not gang up. Jewel thinks we bully her, but I don't. I think it's just Gemini energy.

[A]

Jewel is a Libra. She think everybody bullying her.

[C]

You know what? Maybe girl, shut up. You know, maybe it's because. Maybe it's because it was my birthday, but Ryan was very nice to me. And I cover. Ryan held my hand a lot. We really reached a new level of our friendship. So I am believing that we will carry that forward into the next trip.

[B]

I did keep holding your hand. That was funny. That's. You know what? Wow, that's. That's sweet. That probably won't continue. I think the more I'm around you, the more I used to hold Sequoia's hand. And then I got scared one time.

[C]

So you said the ship, huh? The ship has sailed.

[A]

But to be fair, I don't have a nurturing energy that Jewel has, so you know that.

[B]

You know what? Maybe that's, like, back to the guy. It's not gossip. It's nurture. Yeah. There's, like, a sense of, like. That's why I'll tell you the things they are like, oh, mom, let me know. It's gonna be okay.

[C]

Yeah. Because I'm like, it's not gossip. Because gossip is, like, messy, and it's not always messy. Sometimes it's really just like, I. I don't know. I've always given auntie. I was five, giving auntie vibe. So now everybody want to come to me with day stuff.

[A]

So here we are.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Next.

[B]

But, yeah, come get some of that nurturing energy in person.

[A]

Right. Next question. Can you please do an episode on reboots of shows we loved as a kid?

[C]

Of course.

[A]

Oh, that'd be, like, the gossip. I didn't like that. But that exists.

[B]

I didn't.

[C]

Yeah. I'm like, I can't think of one. I got.

[A]

What else?

[B]

The Gossip Girl reboot was an issue because they Bel Air woke.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And derogatory.

[B]

I want them to be bad, and.

[A]

They did a bad job at making them. It was all. It was bad all the way around.

[B]

They weren't like. I'm like, those girls would be mean, and I prefer them to be me. Same with, like, in just like that. Like, they're like. That got rebooted. I guess we were like children when that show was on, so we shouldn't have been. I didn't watch it until I was an adult. But also, maybe we should, because I'm like, there's tons of reboots where I'm like, I have thoughts, and I.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

I think lots of them come back. And what's his face? Jewel.

[C]

I'm trying to think. I'm thinking. And just, like, that would be a good one to talk about because I did watch all of Sex and the City, and I have very strong feelings about. And just, like, that same. The only other one I can think of is what Billair, which I'm enjoying. Like, Bel Air is probably one of the better reboots.

[A]

Yeah, I like it.

[B]

I thought it's over. I started watching the first couple seasons, and then I didn't catch up.

[A]

I did, like, final season.

[C]

Now they're on their last season.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think I saw a spoiler that Will Smith shows up.

[A]

Yeah, I saw that he does. I saw that.

[B]

He's in it multiple times. He's in it more than one.

[A]

Seen it yet, but I don't know about multiple times.

[C]

But they have several of those, like, moments where I think, like, the old Jeffrey shows up at one point. Like, there's several moments where they kind of fall back.

[A]

Janet Hubert is in I. I saw something coming up on the OG Black name.

[C]

The little sister. She's a teacher in the show for a little. Teacher for a little bit. So they do a lot of those callbacks.

[B]

Yeah, I love that. Okay. That's probably one of the. We should do reboots. What are the reboots, I wonder? Because I'm like, what else has been brought back? They brought back Rugrats for a hot sec.

[A]

Did they?

[B]

As like a three. As like a 3D animated show.

[A]

Oh, my God. That sounds horrible. A 3D animation. Nobody wants that. Are you guys okay?

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I feel like we're too old.

[A]

Way too well now, all grown up. I feel like technically it's a reboot of Rugrats to some degree.

[B]

It was, and it's good.

[C]

And I like that.

[A]

I like that.

[C]

I like that one.

[A]

Good stuff.

[B]

I distinctly remember hating it. Like, I remember the episode liking and hating the show. Something about the show made it less fun.

[A]

I watched that. I was in.

[B]

Did you really?

[C]

Yeah, I did. The way that I know that we are the, like, the new adult in a disturbing way is I went to the Brandy and Monica concert, and Maya was the opening act. And I'm like, is she better perform Regrets. And if I hear it, I'm gonna have an attitude. She did. And I was like, take me. I'm like, this is such a random song to be singing at a mature concert.

[B]

I would never expect her to perform that.

[C]

I'm surprised that, like, she didn't do the whole song. She did, like, the instrumentation, and then she did, like, the bridge, and then we moved on, but that was enough.

[B]

That's all she did. She didn't really do the song, did she?

[A]

She did.

[B]

She is the course the bridge. And it's.

[C]

The first verse. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I'm confusing that with Solange on Yes. Proud Family.

[C]

Which. Guess what if I went to see.

[A]

Someone that's a reboot. High School Musical, the Musical. The series reboot was fun. It was fun until it was ridiculous. Season one was cool. Season two, it was like, okay, I'm out. I'm too old.

[C]

You know, I didn't watch that.

[B]

Okay, yeah. Now I'm like, we could just do the reboot episode right now.

[A]

It does.

[B]

That sounds like a good. Because I'm like, now we're like, oh, we're in it.

[A]

That's a good episode.

[B]

I'm down to do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I want them to reboot Glee. I do. I need it because it's so bad.

[A]

Glee curse. There's too many people that have died from Glee.

[C]

Yes. To let Glee go. You know, it was a moment in.

[A]

Time to reboot Glee.

[C]

I agree.

[B]

How many people?

[A]

Oh, a lot.

[B]

No, only two. And then one's in jail. Or did he also.

[A]

There's too many people that are. I thought he did Circumstances from.

[C]

I thought he went to jail and then died.

[B]

Only three that ended badly. I think there are a lot.

[A]

It's not a lot.

[B]

Oh, I'm like, it's not that bad.

[C]

For one shower, like, and not three. Like, oh, this was a guest that kind of like three of the main cast. Like, yeah, no, I'm okay.

[A]

The Pretty Little Liars reboot is a thing. There's like a. Oh, I haven't watched it.

[B]

It's good.

[A]

I haven't watched. I, like, turned it on, and so it was, like, happening and it was fine. But Pretty Little Liars went off the rails in the first place.

[C]

So I was about to say some of that stuff. We should not.

[A]

You know, there's not a Bring It On. No, but there's like, you know, Bring It On's been around for a long time, and they keep making.

[B]

Yeah, it just hasn't stopped. There's like, continue.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's a good idea. Well, we can do a reboot episode that sounds fun like that. Next question. Will you guys ever have fans on your show? If so, how do I apply? Have there been. I think there's been a fan on the show once. There was a fan on the show once. I think it was the. What episode was that? Manifestations episode. Question mark. First one.

[B]

Was it pre Us?

[A]

Yeah, for sure. This was years ago.

[C]

You would have to know, because I don't.

[A]

This was years ago. Yeah. It's not impossible if you Pitch something really, really good. Happy to have you. Or you gotta, you know, send me a pitch. A nice.

[C]

My artsy writing friends be hitting me in the DMS all the time. Tell Sequoia to bring me on about okay to bring me out.

[B]

I'm like, guys, you can send your.

[A]

Pitches to paramore Gmail.com. you can, or you can DM us. You know, all that stuff. Now, this is a question for you, Ryan.

[B]

Me specifically.

[A]

It has to be. I mean, well, Jewel, you could probably chime into, but I feel like I'm let Ryan happen. Do you think it's worth trying to date in this current climate?

[B]

Oh, wow. Okay. And, well, wait, why is this a question for me?

[C]

I got thoughts and opinions, but I don't know if they want to hear them. They don't say I'm being a hypocrite.

[B]

I think, okay, I guess my. My question is. Or yes, I think it is. You should always be trying to date because, like, if your goal is to end up in a relationship and find a partner, what else are you gonna do? You have to date. So, like, yes, the answer is yes. Now I will give you the truth. It is hell. It is the pits. I think the apps are bad. The apps are also just making money off of us. They don't show you people that you really want to be with. And particularly if you are someone who dates men. Whether you being a man who dates men or a woman who dates someone, like, anyone who dates. I'm telling you, games, games, games, games. Lots of Monopoly, Scrabble, Candyland.

[A]

I don't even like Monopoly.

[B]

You know what I mean? It's really not good out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I. I'm sorry, that's not a good answer. But rough. I also realized recently I too, am a part of the problem as man. I did. I noticed that. I also, like, recently came across a man who, like, oh, he likes me. And I'm like, starting to be open to this idea of this man liking me and being like, okay. Because the first time I was like, ew, what's wrong with you? So also work on your own shit. I will say.

[A]

Did you follow him?

[B]

I did. We follow him. So there was a man. There's a man who. He followed me a while ago because we met, like when I was working at a spin studio. He always, like, came up and flirted with me at the counter and I was like, I don't. I don't know. This is weird energy. He ran up to me at a bar.

[C]

God forbid somebody likes me again.

[B]

Hey, that's what I'm saying.

[A]

Us men have problems.

[B]

I'm willing to say it. We have issues. We don't know what we want. And then when someone wants us, it's like, what the fuck? And then it's like, let's go play this thing with someone else. I get it. I'm a part of the problem. I'm working on it. And that's why I did follow this man back. But I thought it was too late if. Jewel, I want your opinion. If someone followed you and you didn't follow them back and you didn't think about it for a while, and then you run into them and they are clearly interested in you, and then you're like, oh, let me like, chat up, chat you up, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you remember that you don't follow them. Would you follow them back?

[C]

Yes. Oh, I think it's like, it's not too late. Because the thing is, maybe how, you know, I wasn't wrapping something up back then and so I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want to slide until I really had some stuff wrapped up in situation. You don't know what I had going on. You don't know, Maybe the different times or. You know what I mean? Like, stuff happens when it's supposed to happen.

[B]

I just didn't follow.

[C]

I said he didn't know. I know you ain't have nothing. I said he didn't know.

[B]

I don't like that you said, you know, I ain't had nothing. Don't say it like that.

[C]

I happen to know you, so I know you didn't have nothing.

[B]

I need to clarify. It wasn't like I know you.

[C]

You ain't no Ryan. Despite what you think, I think you're very likable and I can understand why somebody might like you. I think you're fantastic.

[B]

Thank you. I like me too. That's fair.

[C]

Great.

[A]

Well, do you question mark why you people like you?

[C]

See how I didn't harp on it? I said, great, because I was gonna turn this into a therapy session. I was gonna let him have it.

[B]

We're working on it. More of the story, is it, yes, you should be dating. But I will say it's rough out here. It's the pits. But not only should you be dating, just because, like, if that's your goal in this economy, girl, dual income is ideal.

[C]

Undefeated.

[B]

If like, get a roommate. And like you, you built a roommate. Built in dog sitter. That's really why I want a partner. Somebody Watch this dog.

[C]

Yep, that's true. But also not all me. Hashtag not on me. Because sometimes you get a partner and now you just got an extra bill.

[A]

Oh, and an extra burden.

[C]

And an extra burden. You got it. Don't make, don't. Don't bring nobody in your space if they not gonna actually help. If they're not gonna actually.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

Make the burden list.

[B]

Also make sure they like you. I was listening to this like, like, I'm on the side of tick tock now. Where it was this guy talking about like, oh, I'm talking to this girl. Like, she's like, he's basically. He called her a baddie. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And he was like, he didn't like that she wanted him to spend so much money. And like, he went to a restaurant he couldn't afford. And then like, he was trying to get his mom to like send him cash app and money so he can pay for the dinner, yada, yada yada. And then he was like, man, I didn't like that she made me do all that, blah, blah, blah, blah. But sex was great. And so I keep talking to her. He literally went on like a three minute thing about how he didn't really like her, he was with her because she was attractive, and then was like trying to figure out how to pay for the things and then she ended up paying for it. He was like, oh, but sex is great. So I'm gonna keep talking to her. And I'm like, you don't dislike her.

[C]

That across the gen. We need to recalibrate because what is going on here? I saw a post on, I want to say Twitter the other day was where a guy was like, he was on a date and a girl like slid her phone across the table to him and it was like a Chanel bag. And she was like, think about that. And then she went to the bathroom and came back and was like, did you think about it? And he was like, what is there to think about?

[A]

I like the bag if you're considering getting it.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, like that. I don't know what this got to do. And she was like, I knew you was. And I'm just like, how did we get. And there have been several. I'm in Atlanta.

[A]

I do feel like that matters.

[C]

There have been several of my guy friends who have come to me and said that they have had that experience.

[B]

And I'm like, what do you mean? Like, as in like someone that they are not like, not even that we've.

[C]

Been together for A while we are on hinge still. We have not, we have not transferred over to texting. We have not met in person.

[A]

I haven't heard the sound of your voice yet.

[C]

And the requirement to me meeting you in person is a Chanel bag. I want to get my hair done.

[A]

I want to get my nails done for the day.

[C]

And some of it is not even. Some of it is not even like big stuff. Some of it is like, I expect you to send me money for lunch regularly or like every. But I also think I don't know I can if I want to. I don't know you. You shouldn't be expecting.

[A]

That's the thing. It feels so entitled. I'm like this person.

[C]

Expectations are you.

[B]

I don't know you. And again, also, it's weird to then leap to, you're broke. And then also a.

[A]

It's.

[B]

That's a crazy leap to. Because I, I me person who doesn't know you won't send you money. You think you're broke. And I'm like, you're broke. Yeah, you're broke. But also, this is me now. What do you think? In a world where I am not broke but you're angry at me. Why do you think, oh, never mind. I forget. Because men sometimes are stupid and that will on some men that will work. It's like, let me prove to you that I have money, not me.

[C]

I was gonna say one thing about me. You're broke. You're right. And mind you, my bank account could be stacked. I don't want to give you the money. So I do think it's great that you think I'm broke so you won't ask.

[B]

I am broke. For you. You are correct. You are correct. For you, I am.

[A]

I will also say it. I. I hate, I hate to say it. I hope I don't sound ridiculous. This is the fault of female rap. And I love city girls.

[C]

I wanted to. I love female.

[B]

I do too.

[A]

I love female. I love it. I love it. They're talking about sex work in their raps and you don't want to do the sex part. That's your. See now this is. And again, I'm not trying to victim blame. I'm not trying to do nothing crazy.

[B]

No.

[A]

When a man offers to fly you out, or when you ask a man to fly you out somewhere, the implicit expectation is that he is going to get sex out of that. If you are show up, you not putting nothing out. That's how you end up sitting at the airport trying to figure out how you're going to get back home because you don't have enough money to fly yourself back home. And you expect us to come up off this because who doesn't know you doesn't owe you. You don't owe him either. But look, that excel, that exchange is not mutual. That's not a mutual exchange. You get a flight out there, he get what. Okay.

[B]

And yeah, not that like that is like. But yeah, I, I see what you're saying. But like yes, that, that contract has been that way for a long time and the Internet has kind of like blurred that line too much. But that's usually what escorts used to do.

[A]

That's what a trick is, you guys, for sure. You obviously no problem.

[B]

That is what you. But if that's what you want to do, do that.

[A]

You gotta be tricking, right?

[B]

But be tricking.

[C]

A lot of the like female rap stars have matured. Like their careers have matured a bit that we've seen it go bad. Like, do you know what I mean? Like when the City girls first came out and we were like, yeah, why not let them rap about what the was rapping about? It's fun, light hearted, like all of these things, right? But now it's been enough time that we didn't see some of the relationships go left or we've seen some of the like consequences of those kind of. You know what I mean? Like we've seen it in the same stars not go great. And it's not a judgment thing. But I do think like we should be having more honest conversations about what this. You know what I mean? Like what transactional relationships for whatever reason you're doing it and we need to.

[A]

Have more honest conversations that they are in fact transactional. They are giving up coochie. They are, they are, they are. I promise.

[C]

They also say they are. They literally say even if they don't.

[A]

If you're watching an influencer on the Internet and she getting flown out and doing all this and you're like, whoa. And she hitting up and getting Chanel bags, whatever she them for that.

[B]

Okay, right.

[A]

If she. It's not a problem, no shame there. But you sitting here wrecking your brain trying to figure out why this man that you met on hinge three days ago won't buy you a Chanel bag. And you think you must not be that. You must not have that energy. You really must, you must not be your. You're not giving up coochie. That's what it is. It's not that you're not that it's nothing like that. It's that you're not giving up cushy.

[B]

It's the same that quote that's like, sometimes you don't get invited to the party because you don't.

[A]

Because you don't. And that's okay. And that's okay. 100. Sometimes the man will buy that Chanel bag because you're not a prostitute. And that's.

[B]

That's okay.

[A]

And if you work, that's also okay.

[B]

Okay. Either way, like, it's not to be.

[C]

Operating under a level of understanding about what. Like, damn, that's what's going. I feel like that's what's going wrong in dating is we all on different.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Everybody is on a different page.

[B]

This reminds me of, like, this guy who I assumed he was gay, but apparently he's not. He was on TikTok saying he wouldn't date someone unless everyone else thought they were. Like, if someone thought his partner.

[A]

I've been saying this conversation.

[B]

If people think his partner's unattractive, like society thinks that he will not date Ryan.

[A]

They're not rage. They're not rage baiting. I've seen so many men have this take that's. And so that's their friend. If their friend doesn't find their partner female specific. This is straight. This is straight specific. If their male friends does not find their female partners attractive, they will stop dealing with that woman because they don't want to deal with the woman that nobody wants.

[B]

Even if they. He admittedly was like, I think this person 100% conceding that.

[A]

That's. I don't know what to tell you.

[C]

If we had to pick if between the three of us, we had to determine who the other dates based on who we think is cute, none of us would be in relationship.

[A]

We would never.

[C]

We never align on who was cute. And half the time I show y' all somebody, and I'm like, what a cute man. And y' all are like, are you blind? And I'm like, well, I still think he's cute and I don't care.

[A]

And that goes that men, straight men really do see women as a status symbol and a pawn and not a partner.

[C]

That.

[A]

That is a human being with their own feelings and expectations and. And vibes. You know, like, they're like, oh, this is something that I can flaunt. Like, I would flaunt a car, a Porsche, so that other people know the type of nigga that I am type shit.

[B]

I. And that's to me. And so yes, that is why I think dating right now is hard. Because I think a lot of people, particularly men have that. And I'm like, I think they need to work on that because like that is weird to me. Where it's like you're dating this person for you don't even like this person, but you're doing it so other people think it's cool and that makes less sense to me. I see a world where you're like, I at least think this person is attractive. And like maybe I just want to fuck around. Which is also wrong in its own way. But at least that makes sense. Where it's like I just want to have sex with this person. Still bad, still wrong. But that to me makes more logical sense then I. I am solely dating this person because it looks good. That's just like the guy who was like, if her IG's weak, this there's so much.

[A]

Oh my God, did you see that one?

[B]

He said if her IG's bad, I won't date.

[A]

What does that mean? Like what bad? His.

[B]

His phrase was if her IG is weak, he doesn't want to talk.

[A]

Like not enough.

[B]

I'm like, you are a man.

[A]

The photos aren't good. Like what? Anyways, who really gives a actually what.

[B]

He'd never been like if her followers weren't up. And I'm like, to me, I'm like, what does that mean?

[A]

And then, and then it'd be the same. That will cry talking about women only want money out of them and women are so materialistic.

[C]

Again, we're not on the same page. One thing y' all need to connect with them over there. They looking for that too.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

Everybody link up with their like minded.

[B]

Individuals blown out are that way. Their IGs are great. People do find them attractive. However, you are gonna have to spend some money one so you need to go and do that.

[A]

You're gonna have to not be a bum ass on top of it. You also are gonna have to be attractive and you know, worth, you know.

[C]

Not if you got a little bread.

[B]

But sometimes people don't care where the brand comes.

[A]

You can't be Timothy talking about you want a bad on Instagram. Timothy.

[C]

Why?

[A]

How would. How would. Why would she be interested to you? To you, right? Who are you anyways?

[B]

And not that you can't have somebody because someone out there is going to love you. They will, they will. But the person you are going after, that's not going to be the person who loves you.

[A]

You Know, like.

[B]

And so, yeah, Timothy, you have to find.

[A]

You see how that's the equal name. Timothy and Tiffany. It's like, oh, those go together. That makes sense, right?

[C]

Did I ever tell y' all how bad my dating profile was? Because y' all know I don't like taking pictures.

[A]

Yeah, you said it was the headshots and it was professional.

[C]

It was outtakes from my head. Your man was like, just gotten some journalism head shots done. And I said, I'll just pull the outtakes. And I put them on my profile. This was within a month. So obviously they were. And Ryan was like, you looked very professional. And I'm like, I don't know if that's what I was going for for my. But it wasn't not what I was going for if I put the pictures up there. So I'm glad I found somebody who swiped.

[B]

Hey, I wonder if people use Hinge as like a job market thing.

[A]

Some people do.

[C]

I think it's weird.

[A]

I'm sure.

[B]

I agree. Think it would be weird.

[C]

Mind you, I was just being lazy. I didn't want nobody to come talk to me about work. I just didn't want to take another photo. Especially, like, if somebody came talk. That's.

[A]

I'm sure people use Hinge for sure market thing.

[B]

Oh, you think like, modeling wise. You mean like work work?

[A]

Both. No, I would imagine both. I would imagine it's a little bit of like, oh, let me. What. What. What studio do you work for? Oh, that's cool. Let me.

[C]

Yeah. Because I was on the league for a little bit because I watched Insecure too much and I got on the league because that was supposed to be, you know, Molly was on the league and it was very like biz. I'm like, this is LinkedIn. Like, I didn't understand. It wasn't my. It wasn't my league.

[A]

I definitely know that.

[C]

Yeah. I don't want to pick something I don't want to. I understand that people more than likely, like, partner up with people who have, like, same education, class, same background is them. I don't want to pick a partner based on who went to Harvard. I don't give a damn that you went to Harvard. That don't got nothing to do with me. I don't care that you work at Deloitte especially. You're boring.

[B]

I agree. When I think of. We've gotten off topic a little bit. But like, when I think of dating apps to me or Harvard and stuff like that, I've worked at places with people who went to those schools. And I'm like. And we ended up at the same space. Me with my Missouri baby. I went to a state school. We ended up at the same company.

[C]

I met a girl one time, she was like, did you not think you weren't going to get ahead because you went to a state school? I said, it never crossed my mind. And that's how I got here.

[B]

Right?

[C]

It never crossed my mind.

[B]

If you like too many podcasts, you'll love Soundtape with John Lick Roberts. It's got clips from all your favourite.

[A]

Podcasts, such as Diary of a Tiny CEO Leonard Sprague.

[B]

Tell me how you make your money.

[A]

I go to the beach and I steal people's towels.

[B]

Remember Armour?

[A]

Do you remember the trend of everyone whacking themselves on the head with hammers and mallets when they wanted to lose weight?

[B]

And Eltie Jom's lobby songs? I'm here today with Kiki D. Hello.

[A]

Kiki D. Hello, Elton.

[B]

There's dozens of episodes to catch up on and brand new episodes going out right now.

[A]

So if you want far, far, far.

[B]

Too many podcasts, then look for sound.

[A]

Heap on Maximum Fun.

[B]

Boop boop.

[C]

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show. Let's learn everything. So let's do a quick progress check. Have we learned about quantum physics?

[A]

Yes. Episode 59. We haven't learned about the history of.

[C]

Gossip yet, have we?

[A]

Yes, we have. Same episode, actually.

[C]

Have we talked to Tom Scott about.

[A]

His love of roller coasters?

[B]

Episode 64.

[A]

So how close?

[C]

Learning everything. Bad news. We still haven't learned everything yet. Oh, we're ruined. No, no, no. It's good news as well. There is still a lot to learn. I'm Dr. Ella Hubba.

[B]

I'm regular Tom Lum.

[A]

I'm Caroline Roper.

[C]

And on let's learn everything. We learn about science and a bit of everything else too. And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

[A]

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun. Okay, should we move on to the next question?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Any advice on making friends in your late 20s and early 30s? I don't drink party and I'm not really creative. That last part really made me laugh.

[B]

Sorry, how did you laugh?

[C]

I was like, why would you not.

[A]

Being creative have to do with you not being able to make friends? Oh, my God.

[C]

Did I sneak that question in? That gives Jewel a little bit. Did I? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Okay. This list of things that. You know what I think what I would Start with is, what are you. If you. If you don't drink, you don't. No, I mean, and I don't. That maybe sounded shady. I just mean it generally. Start with, I think the next time you were thinking of, like, oh, how can I make friends? Start with, I am. Blah, blah, blah. Cause sure, you don't drink, sure you don't party, and you're not creative, but maybe you are a bookworm and it's like, okay, let me start a book.

[A]

Club or join a book club. A music head, maybe, you know, maybe you're doing a book about. It's true. You know, whatever.

[C]

Here's the thing. As the person who doesn't drink, doesn't party, I think I'm creative.

[B]

But if you drink, don't let. Don't fool these people. I'm starting to get kicked out of a group.

[C]

I drink sometimes, but very.

[B]

Like, Jewel has been kicked out of a club. I was there. I witnessed it.

[A]

I did. I did see it.

[C]

You have waited for years to bring this up. You've been waiting for the right moment.

[B]

As if I wasn't the person who got.

[C]

As if you were not the one passing the drinks. It don't matter. It don't matter. It don't matter. The thing is, like, I. The way that I find my friends, because I remember I can only speak as somebody who, like, in my teens and early twenties, I genuinely used to feel sad because I felt like I didn't meet a lot of people like me who didn't. I really didn't drink in my 20s, who didn't drink, who didn't go out and party. And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm not gonna meet friends. Still friends. Meet friends through your friends because you like your friends. So meet other people through your friends because they've already been vetted. They probably are very similar. You know what I mean? Like, that is how I have built a very robust, like, friend group is through work and, like, networking kind of. You know what I mean? Like, I'll befriend people who are in my industry, but also through stealing my friends. Friends. I got so many friends that went to uga. I ain't never stepped foot on that campus for school because I met one person or, you know, I had one friend that went there and I took the whole group.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I also feel like I will add again, resting, friendly face. So I will. I will concede that it is easier in certain situations for me to make friends, but I think I'm also very involved in Random things, right? I think Sequoia, you know for sure, I'm consistently like, you'll text me, I'll be like, oh yeah, I'm taking a pottery class. Or I'll very randomly in an activity all the time.

[C]

And you meet people through that.

[B]

Truly there's so many people that just by doing random classes and activities. So again, back to like finding out what you are because you don't have. I mean also I, I always push back when people say they're not creative because that's not true. Everyone is creative in some way shape or form. You are creative in some way. Find that thing and then like even if it's just one class, even if it's like a one day thing and just go. I think the more you do it, the more like if you're in a class that takes place over like four or five weeks, you will just naturally talk to people more, even if it's one person. And then also if somebody is super friendly, like Jewel saying, go be friends with that person. Try to even just make friends with them and you'll kind of buy, you'll.

[C]

Kind of end up in their circle. I. My friend had a birthday party. She's in her mid-30s, she's married with a kid. She had a birthday party where she. This was like a week this last weekend. She rented a party bus so that we could go on a book crawl. And we went across to different bookstores in metro Atlanta. Shopping.

[B]

It was so cute.

[C]

She had 20, 30 people on this damn party bus. The man was like, this is not the usual party bus by. But we had drinks, we had snacks, they had some little edibles. Okay, like, and we met up at her house at like 10. And we spent the like late morning, early afternoon. We went to like four or five different bookstores. Isn't that so cute?

[B]

Also so unique.

[A]

That is so unique.

[C]

It's so fun. And I think it's becoming popular because literally the next day I saw like one of my favorite influencers posted that she was doing a similar thing with a book club. But like, that is fun. You. And so she had us wear name tags. And the name tags, like the color of the name tag corresponded to the type of book genre that you like the most. But that's a conversation starter. Cause I'm like, oh, I got teal too. Like, what books are you getting? Like, that's how you meet people. That is such a fun way of bringing your friends together and letting your friends meet each other through a very like shared hobby.

[A]

I'LL also say it's difficult to make friends in your late 20s and your early 30s because for the first time in your life, you don't have a built in thing that gives you repeat interactions with. With people. So, you know, you have school, you know if you go to college, you got college. And that kind of forces you to be in proximity with the same people over and over and over again, which is way easier to build a connection. I saw somewhere, I don't remember the exact number, but it's. It's something like 100 hours to convert somebody to a friend. And, and that one, I might be.

[C]

How long it took for you to.

[A]

Be my friend, but it's like, you.

[C]

Know what I mean?

[A]

Like, it's like it takes a certain number of in person hours to convert somebody to a friend and then more hours to convert them to a best friend. And so it's just, it really is about repeat attraction. So going off what Ryan said, even going to a workout class three times a week, you know, it's something that you have to do anyways. I love efficiency, love multitasking. I have to take care of my body. I have to work out anyways. So I'm gonna go to the same class. I'm not gonna go on class pass and switch classes every five seconds. I'm gonna go to the same one. I'm gonna talk to these same. We gonna become friends on Instagram one day I'm gonna ask, do you want to go to coffee after this? And we're gonna go to coffee and our friendship is gonna be started from there.

[C]

That's. My mom is 60. She goes to the same Pilates studio as me. She done had two coffee friends.

[A]

You know exactly in the last two.

[C]

I love that I met this lady. We about to go get some sandwiches and some coffee. Good for you, girl.

[A]

That's super cute. Or even signing up for a class at a community college. Like Ryan said, same thing. Like it's just repeat interactions. Just putting yourself. I go to book club because it's repeat interaction with the same group of people. Now I have a lot of friends that have come from book club, so. So it's just. Yeah. Something especially in person though. Now that we can be in person. I know there's a time when we couldn't be. If you can get out into the world, something that you're interested in, a themed party, even that happens regularly. It's going to be the same types of people that grow up if you that go. If you like Beyonce is a Beyonce party once a quarter. Go. Yeah.

[B]

And I feel like I'm trying to think of, like, free things because, like, I know some people are like, oh, and outside is expensive. I'm not going to say it's not. Check your libraries. Most major and small cities. I would. Most places have libraries, and you would be surprised by how many libraries have events. Yes. And so, like, because I get it, sometimes money is an issue. Check out your libraries or, like, your community centers, like, your. Like, anything like that. And even if this may be hot take. I also think, especially when making new friends in general, lower. Lower your. I'm not saying your expectations. Obviously, if you absolutely hate this person, don't do it. But I think there might be a level of, like, this person might be mildly irritating in one way. A. I think that, like, that's just natural. Being human. We all irritate each other in some ways. And, like, can I look past this? As long as they're not, like, being, like, a horrible human being. And it's just, like, compartmentalize.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This is my after my workout class friend. It's not.

[C]

That was my mistake. When I went. When I finally started making friends in my early 20s and mid 20s, everybody was. I had 55 best friends. All them people are not.

[A]

I just got over there.

[C]

They don't have to figure out who your friends are and what. And it's not using people, but, like, figure out who your friends are. And I like to do this with this friend. I don't have to tell her all of my deep, dark secrets. That's not what she's for. Like, that you compartmentalize. And I also think find friends who have similar communication or, like, interest as you don't befriend people who want to be at the club. You know you ain't going to the club, right? You're not going. How are y' all going to maintain a friendship?

[A]

You know what I mean?

[C]

Like, we're not. You can have some friends who have different interests in you, and y' all can respect each other's interests and stuff, but if your friend want to talk on the phone every day and, you know, girl, I'm not getting on the phone with you every day. We're not gonna maintain a friendship because we're not equally. We don't have the same values and the same ideas of what a friendship. Like, find friends who have similar temperaments.

[B]

Not in that way. I think you can still.

[C]

In that way, I want to push back.

[B]

I think you can still have a.

[C]

Level of friendship that's what I'm saying.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I just think that.

[C]

I'm not saying you can't be friends at all, but I'm saying, like, I have friends who love to go out and they go out with each other. They don't cry. They know I'm not going. Right. But I have friends who have similar. Like they want. But they also. Those friends that want to go out maybe wouldn't get on the book club.

[A]

Right, Right.

[C]

You know what I'm saying? And I'll go with my other friends to that because I have multiple friends and I can do different things with different. Right.

[B]

I also now want to ask back to this the questioner. What? Because I don't party. I assume you mean, like, you don't go to clubs, but I'm like, who doesn't party? Like, I mean, I'm genuinely asking, what does that mean? And actually ask yourself, what people.

[C]

What are you talking about?

[B]

Sorry, but I mean, what is that? I made me a mia partier doesn't understand. There are plenty of people who also.

[C]

Just don't like group settings. Like, I don't want to. I. There are certain people, right? Like, okay, actually, I think this about my boyfriend. He is a very like, one on one small group settings. He can be friendly. You put him in a group where it's 30 people. I must shut down. It's too many people. It's too much energy. I don't know how to interact with. It's not a party. Like, maybe we are at a kickback. Maybe we had a bonfire. But like, I. That's not my scene.

[B]

You had a what?

[C]

A bonfire.

[B]

Say it one more time.

[C]

I don't give a damn. Because I don't know what y' all trying.

[B]

Fire girl.

[C]

Leave me the hell alone.

[B]

You. You were. Say the word. Spell it.

[A]

I'm not absolutely. Anyways, child, but you get what I'm trying to say.

[C]

There are certain people, when people say they don't party, what they most like. There are some people who shine and are more social and can better, like, connect with people in more intimate settings, less likely to be in like, big groups.

[A]

No, that's so true. And also I. I have to say friendship often is inconvenient. So you. You might for sure have some kind of stretch yourself sometimes. If you. If you're trying to convert somebody into a friend and you know for a fact you like this person, you might have to go to the party, babe. You might have to go to the party.

[C]

It's her birthday.

[A]

Pull up.

[B]

You Gotta go.

[C]

You. What you gonna say? I bet you gonna be, because if.

[A]

People keep inviting you to and you keep saying no, eventually they're going to stop inviting you.

[C]

Keep saying no. You got to be okay with them.

[A]

Not, you know, I mean, they're like.

[C]

Okay, we're not being your friend, but also just not ask you anymore because they are your friend.

[A]

It gives the idea that you' in them because they keep doing the initiating and you keep saying no because it's something that makes you uncomfortable. Sometimes you just have to be uncomfortable and that's it.

[C]

And guess what? If you hate it that much, you got to be okay with that friendship ending.

[B]

If you're going to say no, offer something else. Yeah, that, like, that is the only way I would say you can say no consistently. Like, oh, I really don't want to go to that birthday party, but girl, I'll take you to coffee or dinner.

[A]

100. 100% yes. Offer another date and offer. Offer a different thing that is more aligned with something that you want to do. Also, I would say another separate, smaller tip that's very similar to what I've been saying the whole time. Becoming a regular somewhere in your neighborhood. This could be me having coastal bias or like big city bias, but like, becoming a regular at a place in your neighborhood. A lot of people are regulars at places in the same neighborhood. When I go to the same little coffee shop, you know, a couple times a week, I see the same people sitting there working on their laptops. If I decided to strike up a conversation that very well could turn into a friendship. I also know that they live in my neighborhood. Neighborhood. So that's a neighbor. You know, proximity, something like, with.

[B]

Like, if. If you have a dog or something. There's so many people I know now simply by getting my dog.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, I walk and I'm like, well, now, because there are people I have to avoid because I'm like, damn, she don't stop talking.

[A]

I gotta go, right?

[C]

I'm trying to walk my dog. I think what I would say about friendships is, like, it's not about quantity, it's about quality. So if you got a couple good friends, that is enough, you know? But I also think similar to, like, dating or any other sort of relationship that's not like, familial. Like, I wasn't born into this. Like, you get to choose who you want to hang out with, push yourself, get out of your comfort zone and do things, because that is what community and friendship is about. And also, if it gets to the Point where it just don't feel good. You can decide to make friends elsewhere in a friendship that feels a little more aligned.

[A]

It feels good, definitely. It's like you always have some agency in that it is other people's choice too to be friends with you, but it is also your choice. So, yeah, I don't want you to feel like you don't have the ability to do it because you do. Next question. Question for the pod. Who was Issa's best relationship on Insecure? And who do you think Issa should have ended up with at the end? I'll answer this first.

[C]

Everybody be single.

[A]

I think Issa's best relationship was. I think Issa's best relationship was Lawrence. And I think she should have ended up with Lawrence in the end. And I'm happy that she did. I wish he didn't have a kid. Annoying that he had a kid, but sometimes it'd be like that. So I'm knowing that he had a kid after they were already together. You know what I mean? Not that he has one in general, but annoying that they were together. He didn't have a kid. They broke up, he had a kid and then they got back together. Annoying. How dare you.

[C]

I think people, what people are annoyed by. By that insecure ending is like the reminder that relationships aren't always neat and tidy and like every. You know what I mean? That can be your person a thousand percent. And they still a human. They still do. They still had their own autonomy. They still make mistakes. You make mistakes. Like every relationship. If you. If I looked at all my friends relationships and I got the like play by play, it might be some stuff from my girl. I wouldn't have did that if I was you or girl. I would have left or something like. That's their relationship. Everybody got their own threshold and what they would put up with. Like, so it's not ideal, but it worked for them and good for them pretty much.

[A]

I.

[B]

Is it weird that I think I wish she would have ended up with herself?

[A]

Boo.

[C]

That was.

[A]

I wanted her to be alone.

[B]

Yes, correct. I was like, you be alone. How dare you. You don't deserve it.

[C]

I mean, I do think Lawrence was her best relationship, but I also thought.

[B]

Who did Issa date? I can't remember another person she dated.

[C]

The light skinned.

[B]

The light skinned.

[C]

Kendrick. Sampson. What was his name? Nathan.

[A]

Nathan. She dated Nathan. She dated Daniel. She dated Leon Thomas. She did date Daniel. I just remember them in her eye. That's daily.

[B]

I know, I know they.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Now he was my Career. I mean, I liked him and Nathan, I thought both of them.

[A]

You know what my favorite again is? When Nathan and Lawrence meet up and about to fight over Issa. I said yeah. I said, yeah. That's what the I'm talking about. You are that girl. That's what the I'm talking about.

[C]

Throw hands behind Lisa didn't need to think she was that girl cuz she was misbehaving. She needed to pipe it down.

[A]

Everybody deserves a misbehaving little era. You misbehave, you know what I mean? And then you end up with the who had a baby when you was broken up. So it's not ideal.

[C]

You misbehave, Everybody that misbehave, you know what I mean? Okay, Balances out. Although your baby sticks around longer than my misbehaving. But I understand. Do you know like a baby is.

[A]

That really did that that upset me?

[B]

That really did upset.

[A]

How dare you make a permanent decision when you knew it was possible that we could get back together. Are you dumb?

[C]

I was going to cir blocked eventually. Why would you.

[A]

Then I was your person and you went and did something permanent, you dumbass.

[B]

Yeah, it was an accident. No, I'm trying to remember.

[A]

They did not get pregnant on purpose. No, they did not get.

[C]

No, they definitely didn't get pregnant on purpose. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, crazy name, by the way. I don't know who thought about that.

[C]

It was just the worst. Like y' all wanted us to hate that girl on Twitter. Y' all wanted us to hate that. Did I tell you guys she was.

[B]

The one with the titties?

[A]

Yeah, Tasha had the titties that Lawrence was fucking. Yeah, the best. Guys, I saw the actress who played Condola at one of my friends parties and I just recognized her and she was at my friend's party and so I'm like, hey, so good to see you. You know, I thought it was somebody that I knew wholeheartedly thought it was somebody that I knew that I had met before, hugged her, was like, oh my God, so good to see you again. She's like hugging me back. She's like, yeah, yeah, thank you. So good to see you too. As soon as I walked away, I said, that was Condola, you dumb.

[B]

You don't know her.

[C]

Every day you embarrass.

[B]

That is one of the weirdest things about being in LA though, because that you will run into people and be like somewhere.

[A]

I told you guys that happened with Title the Creator too. I'm walking down Melrose. I'M looking at this black man. I'm like, is that. Do I go to high school him? Is that my cousin? I said, now, how do I. So I'm staring at him. He's staring back at me, too. He's like, please. He's looking at me like, please, no. And I'm like, he must recognize me, too. Like, okay. As soon as I walk past, I'm like, that was Tyler, the creator.

[B]

That's Tyler, the.

[C]

And I circle back every day.

[A]

No, she asked for photo and that said, nope.

[C]

No, no. He said.

[A]

I said, respect. Hey. Okay. He said, I'll talk to you for a bit, though. I said, okay, cool.

[C]

Yeah, I definitely. I don't know. I'm with you, though, Ryan. I think Lawrence was her best relationship. And also I was okay with us ending the series with the lessons we learned along the way. And I can just imagine that you meet somebody and put the lessons to use off screen. Like, I didn't need her to end up with somebody in the show because.

[B]

My PR answer was gonna be, molly was her best.

[A]

Now, that's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say, now she. If it had. If the last scene really was her and Molly, like, hanging out, having a sleepover, like, whatever, in that. And the implication being like, oh, this is my best relationship. I would love that. Her ending up alone. Like, if the last scene doesn't include somebody else, I'm like, okay, and I'll take that.

[B]

It's not like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

While I appreciate that, like, and it's not a new genre, because, I mean, that's what Sex in the City was about. But, like, I think about, like, all the TV shows, especially these days, that are, like, our girlfriends are our soul mates. And I love that. And I agree. And I love that sometimes people want a. Yeah, God forbid somebody want to end up with a man. You know what I mean? Like, everybody does not have to, God forbid.

[A]

But, yeah, I agree.

[C]

I agree. But, like, yeah, I do think it can become a little trite where it's like, yes, that is true. And we should prioritize our friendships more. And also, I want both. I want a man.

[B]

And I also sometimes just want somebody in my bed.

[A]

And that's why I'm happy that she got both, because black women deserve.

[C]

That's nice.

[A]

That's. You guys. I have one last question, and, boy, is it a doozy. All right, one last. People, Somebody's looking for advice. Okay. Okay, I'm going to read through it. It's probably going to take me about 5 minutes to read through it and then to read. Yeah, it's like, it's okay. Hello. For your episode. I had a crush on this guy who I have mutual friends with since I can remember. He always had a girlfriend, so was just a crush from afar. Finally he got out of a five plus year relationship sometime last year at the end of 2023. Once I got confirmation that he was single, I responded to one of his stories saying, we should hang out. I live in Atlanta. He lives in New York City, but he was in Atlanta for the weekend. He was leaving town the next day, so couldn't make plans. But I was like, we should text. I sent him my number and we started casually texting. I felt like I only had a short window to hang out with him before he got into another relationship. Considering the state of dating and how there's all of these women and like zero available men, I didn't want to wait for him to come back to Atlanta. He's from here. So I was like, I'm thinking about coming to New York City to visit friends. We should hang out. And he was like, yeah. I gave him some potential dates and he was like, cool. I never really got a solid got into a solid rhythm of texting. But when I went to ask about trip deets, he was pretty responsive. A couple weeks before I went, he was like, I only have a friend's birthday party planned and free for the rest of the weekend. I was like, cool. So we didn't set up anything definitive since it was just a couple weeks away. So a few days before I leave, I reach out to confirm that we're still hanging out. And he basically is booked for the weekend, but was like, we can get drinks on Friday. I told him what time I got in right as I was gonna text him, being like on the way on the plane, he text me to check in to see if everything was set. I get to my hotel and get ready and he's like, we can go here. And then he was like, I have a dinner at 6:30. Mind you, it was already like 5 and we still hadn't met up. I can't remember what I said, but it was something for him to respond, being like, well, the dinner isn't at 6:30. I just have to leave around that time. I think he could tell by however I responded that was a little annoyed, disappointed. I get to the restaurant and maybe five to seven minutes before him and I don't drink. But I didn't tell him ahead of time. So I got A mocktail because I actually don't drink. And he was like, no worries. We cheers once he got his drink. Like I said, up top. We have mutual friends. So we talked about how we know these people, what I did for work, some pop culture, etc. Maybe for about 10 to 15 more minutes. Before we parted ways. He was like, yeah, we'll definitely let you know if I have some more free time and we can hang out some more. And I'm thinking that's a good sign. But then when the check comes, I actually don't reach for my purse because I'm like, get your drinks. I'm sure he'll pay. This man did not pay. Lmao. Now I'm thinking because maybe I got an appetizer, but either way, it wasn't like I ordered four things or something. So I was taken aback by that but didn't say anything. Then when we were about to part ways, we hugged and he said again, I'll let you know when my schedule frees up. I didn't want to come off clingy or desperate, so I didn't text. That night. The restaurant was a short walk from my hotel, so it wasn't like I was gonna have to get in a car to the hotel, so no need to check in. I low key regretted texting a few hours later to see if he wanted to meet up after his dinner, but he had two drinks with me and then probably more drinks at dinner, so he probably would have been alcoholed out. I text him either Saturday or Sunday morning. I told him I was getting brunch with a friend and I was leaving that night. I had like, like a 7 or 8pm flight. He texted back, being like, well, text me after your brunch and we can try to coordinate something. Again, not trying to come off thirsty, I waited longer than usual. Text back, I'm usually a 0.5 second girl, but then once I text back, I didn't hear anything. I still had a few hours before I needed to head to the airport, but I had already checked out of my room, so I was hanging out in the lobby hoping he'd text so I wouldn't literally be waiting around. He finally texts back and he's like, I knocked out after brunch. And then he was like, I have to go see my friend and their new baby. So then I had dinner plans, so I was kind of bummed. I remember crying in the Uber on the way to the airport because I really thought the weekend was going to go better. We text A little bit. And I was at the airport and before I landed, I was being kind of passive aggressive and I was like, quote, I get it, you're a busy man. Also, I forgot to preface it by saying he works in Liverpool soccer team, so he was always over there for work. And when he's back in New York City, he jam packs his weekends. This was the end of April 2024. I can't remember when I decided to give up on texting, but then I saw he was in town in June. So I text being like, hey, would it be cool if we could get together while you're in town? Crickets. Then coincidentally, he came into town the weekend of my birthday in July. I think I might have liked a story or responded, I can't remember. And then ever since, I haven't seen any stories he posted, so I feel like he hit them for me. He never really was watching my story before and it's not like he stopped doing that. So when I was like, this is weird. He's a pretty sv. He's a pretty big SVU fan. So every now and again I'll send him a post or something, something related to that or something we might have talked about when we met for drinks. Nothing came out of it. I'm sure you're like, yeah, okay, what's your question? I guess I don't have one. I just need reassurance that it's his loss, not mine. I saw one of our mutual friends on Thanksgiving. I was like, oh, actually, the mutual friend was like, oh, actually I got drinks with him last spring. He went to uva. Is that the school you know? No, that's uga. Jewel. Never mind. He wants.

[C]

That's in Virginia.

[A]

Yeah, he went to uva and she was doing a residency there. And he mentioned that he sees her sometimes when he visits. And she was like, oh, interesting. He has a girlfriend. On the one hand, I was annoyed with my friend because I didn't ask her that, but on the other hand, I figured out, I figured as such, since he's an attractive man in his early 30s and was in his last relationship for five plus years, so he's a relationship guy, last paragraph. But now of course, I keep on thinking about that. And I told her, well, I think he hit a story for me, so I haven't seen it in a while. And she was like, oh, I don't think he posts much. Someone sent me a pic of them and she looks like all of his exes mixed curly hair. So of course right now I'M looking through his following, trying to see if I can find her. Wasn't able to, which is probably for the best. So, yeah, now I'm beating myself up for thinking I even had a chance. And I know people are saying, you dodged a bullet if someone ghosts you. They weren't considerate enough to straight out tell you they weren't feeling it, but I'm having a hard time with that.

[B]

Ryan. I was. So my first question was because you, like, say you were going to New York to visit friends, and I was like, did you actually have one? If you were ever. If someone doesn't live in your city, it's gonna be harder to date anyway. So, like, that is always gonna be just like, a thing. And I feel like to me, it would never be worth it unless there's, like, explicit. Like, we know we like each other. I wouldn't even go out of my way to do something with someone who does not live in my city. Like, it just doesn't unless it's, like, literally explicit. So, like, I think that would be the first thing also, if you are then going to travel to the city with maybe I'll see this person, have plans, like, and I. It was unclear to me if you actually had plans or if you were, like, saying that to him. And I think that would be my other thing is like, well, don't say, oh, yeah, I'm going to New York to visit my friends when I mean, I'm going to visit you. Those are not the same things.

[C]

You can. But you can't be upset, if that's what I'm saying.

[B]

Yeah. Or yes. Or if you were doing that, then it is unclear. And you can't be mad at him because you. What you told him is not what you meant.

[C]

This wasn't a priority of the.

[B]

Can't be mad at him for being. Because in his head, he was like, oh, you're coming to see friends, bet. Like, I'll see you when I see you. So that it wasn't. He was treating you casual because he didn't necessarily care. But it was just like, with the information I was given, this was what I thought. So I also don't know. I feel like you. We don't. Maybe I don't have enough information to be like, he dodged you dodged a bullet. He. Like, I don't. He doesn't seem like he did anything wrong. But I understand feelings. Certainly understand having, like, feelings and feeling upset about someone not liking you for sure. But I feel like it seems when someone likes you, it Is, I imagine, not even imagine. It is, like, pretty clear. And I think if you have to do this much. Yeah, it's kind of like you're just, like, doing it to yourself.

[C]

Like, I am. I had this therapist when I was in my mid-20s, and she said this thing. I swear to God, it's the only thing I remember. Like, it is like, the most, like, in my brain thing from therapy. She's like, if a man likes you, you'll know. If he don't, you'll be confused. If there is any kind of confusion, he don't like you enough. Get the hell on. I will say I want to start off with a little compassion. As a girl from Atlanta who has dated in Atlanta, she probably just wanted to get the hell out this damn city, because God forbid I gotta date another man in Atlanta. I get it, sister. Like, you know what I mean?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

God, how much more can I take?

[B]

You know what I mean?

[C]

I want to have a look. And I. And I. You. I. You mentioned he was in his 30s. I don't know if you're in your 30s, too. I guess I want to start off with empathy because dating in Atlanta is hard. Dating in general is hard. And I think as we get not old, but older, like, you know, we mature past the 20s, into the 30s and things like that. I think there's all these pressures. You see your friends getting into relationships. Some people get engaged and married, and it's easy to, like, start to pile on a bunch of pressure onto yourself. My advice to you, if I was your friend, was, I better not hear you texting that man again.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I don't want to hear no other idea. If he. If y' all talk, it need to be because he said something to you first.

[A]

100.

[C]

Because. And I. And I'm not saying this as a judgment. I have done this. This is why I'm saying we've all been. I mean, I'm coming up with. If I say I see a speck of dust, I'm using it as a reason to text that man. Leave him alone. You know what I mean? Like, I'm looking for reasons to try to text you. You're responding because you're nice, but it's not going anywhere. You're not keeping the conversation alive. You're not texting me out of that. Like, I. I had to learn to realize that that's just not my person.

[A]

Right.

[C]

It's not that I'm. It's not even. I'm being ghosted because we Haven't. We're not dating. So you didn't ghost me. You just didn't text me anymore. Like, it's. I'm not being ghosted. Nobody dodged a bullet. I didn't dodge a bullet. You didn't dodge a bullet. We weren't comparable. Maybe you weren't interested.

[B]

Yeah, there was no bullets.

[C]

Maybe you weren't interested in me. Go ahead, Ryan.

[B]

That's gonna say. I don't even know if it's like, a compatible. At least from the information presented. I can't even say that it's compatibility. It just seems like it was just not a thing.

[C]

The way that I'm saying it is like he. For whatever reason, he could have had somebody else. Well, we don't know. But he obviously, he didn't see incompatibility there, because he wasn't. I'm not saying that in a judgy way, but I'm saying it in like, he either had something else going on or he wasn't interested for whatever reason, but he has not expressed interest, is what I'm trying to say. Like, you had. Like. That was a lesson that I had to learn of. Like, come. And again, like, I think this is a slippery slope because I think we've talked about how people can act really weird when they're dating. I'm not saying act like the sun and the moon rises and falls with you and only you, but, like, if a man not coming with a certain level of energy and excitement and interest next. You know what I mean? Like, you. I think that's my only thought there is. It sounds like you really desire, like, companionship in a relationship. And again, if somebody in Atlanta. Prayers to you, sister, but don't text that man again.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No, don't send him another. Delete the number. So you.

[A]

You know what I mean? At the end of the day, for. For me personally, as someone who enjoys a little bit of a chase, I don't know what that is about me, but I wholeheartedly do. I don't know, say I have to block and mute people. You know what I mean? So that my brain will actively begin forgetting that you exist, you know, because if I'm reminded of your existence again, I'm kind of like. And this is. This is me being very toxic if I chase you. And eventually you, like, given this sounds so stupid. I don't want you anymore. I'm just. I'm disinterested.

[B]

I did not think.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, oh, yeah. I just want to see if you. If I I want to see if I was that girl. If I had the poll that I.

[B]

Thought.

[C]

Yeah, I will say, for me, as an anxious attachment person, I am like that. Not. It is also toxic, but it's a different intention behind it. Like, when I am reaching out to a guy and I like him and he's not giving me that energy back, it almost makes me go after him harder because I'm feeling rejected, and I'm trying to, like, rectify that situation. Once you start talking to me, the situation is rectified. I don't really care. You know what I mean? But it's like, I am. I am chasing because of that anxious attachment, because I'm feeling. And you mentioned, like, the types of girls he dated and, like, that he had a new girlfriend and stuff like that. Now you're, like, looking at, don't look at that girl. Leave her alone. But now you're looking at that to try to compare yourself, to try to figure out, what did I do wrong? You ain't doing nothing wrong. You lived in Atlanta. He lived in New York. Y' all didn't cross paths enough to really form a connection.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I think, if that helps you feel better, the fact that he does not live in your city, I'd be like this. That was. It was already a stretch. Like, I feel like even in a world where, like, it was sunshine and rainbows, that was gonna be such a thing. And again, like, based on the information provided, it doesn't sound like you two were that close. So you might also be putting a lot of what you want in a partner on this person. And he may literally not be those.

[C]

You might have hung out with him for real. For real. And been, like, 100. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Is really just a lack of information, I promise you.

[C]

So, like, you're like. Oh, my God. Like, so many times where I. I feel like, especially when I was, like, a teenager, early 20s, I would be done painted a whole portrait of a man, right? And he ain't gave me no details, and I done painted a whole portrait. And now I get to know you.

[A]

And I'm like, you're nothing like I hoped.

[B]

What is that Ariana Grande lyric? It's the one with the music video where she. It's like, I painted you. Well, no, no, no. Painted a picture. What the Is that song? Caught in the mind Hang it up in your sheets Running through your problem. I'm. I'm taking a long time to get.

[C]

To this, because y' all know I don't think you.

[B]

No, it Is. Thank you.

[A]

I don't think you next at all.

[B]

I saw your credentials without seeing potential, yada, yada, yada. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. More listen to that song. Go listen to that Hannah Grinder song. Because it's that basically it's like she creates.

[A]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

[B]

She created an image of a man who does not exist. And like, it sounds like that is what you were doing with this person. I do think maybe. And I mean, hey, easier said than done because I definitely have had heat for people who didn't deserve it. Maybe take some of the heat off of him as an individual because I don't think his actions towards you are personal. I don't. From the information provided, it seems like he was just going into this with. With different expectations of what they're.

[C]

Yeah. Also why he probably didn't pay for them drinks because he said, yeah, right. Meeting up. You get your app, I'll get mine.

[B]

I'll get mine, and we'll go the.

[C]

Other way, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think, like, I don't want to say you'll have an easier time once you, like, kind of learn to not paint folks that you don't. You know what I mean? But. Because I think dating is hard regardless. But I do think, and again, I'm only speaking from my experience, like, I was trying so hard for men who didn't deserve it because I wanted to be in a relationship so bad I wasn't going to be in a good relationship. That was the same similar example of like, no, you got a man in your house and you extra bill, or now y' all not compatible. Y' all don't like each other. Like, you don't want to be in a relationship. You want to be in the right relationship.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And so it's like, it is hard and it's easier said than done. And I know people don't like the advice, but you gotta sometimes like, like, take some of that pressure off and like, prioritize actually meeting people that you like and that you feel compatible with versus just meeting people because you meet somebody now you struggling to maintain a long distance relationship. Y' all ain't got nothing. Like, girl, you could have been at home drawing or painting.

[B]

I don't think you say anything you like about him other than him being attractive.

[A]

Well, that's so true.

[B]

So, like, yeah, I realized, like, really think about that. Like, what do you actually like? And maybe whatever, maybe there are actual qualities in him that you actually like that are not just physical and Use that information to be like, oh, what I like about him or the idea I have of him. These are the qualities I like. And then be like, let me find that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The thing you provide. It didn't sound like you named.

[C]

Yeah. Where it's like, he got a good job. He got. I remember I was talking on my mentor is in her, like, 50s. And I remember I was talking to her when I was dating this guy. And I'm like, he got a good job. I just like, we'd be a really cute couple. Our jobs are kind of similar. Like. And she was like, you don't like that man. You like that man on paper. You ain't saying one thing you like about that man. This is an image thing that you do not like. That's why when y' all get together, you don't be having a good time because the images come to life and you're not having fun.

[B]

I wonder if that's the problem with a lot of dating right now.

[C]

For sure.

[B]

The maybe I don't know if it's the Internet, but I'm sure it doesn't help. Has ruined like, we all date for image or want to be an Instagram.

[C]

Tik tok couple goals. And it's like, let's start with do we like you?

[A]

Hello. And we see we in the era of having a boyfriend is embarrassing anyway. So lean into the knot.

[C]

Okay. But also, like, think about the. The folks who have been in relationships and it's like hashtag couple goals. And everybody's like, I want that relationship. And then you find out years down the line the that was going on in their relationship always. You don't want to be couple goals. You want to be couple goals to yourself. You want to be happy in your like.

[A]

Yeah. In fact, the more you post a couple goals, the more I know that you something weird going.

[C]

I be thinking about the GQ couple quiz.

[A]

That's a. That's a curse.

[B]

Curse.

[A]

It's a curse.

[C]

Don't take your ass on there. I loved Tiana and Iman's couples. There's some people where I'm like, girl, I never believe it. I loved them so much. I love their couple's quiz. I'm like looking at this couple quiz. You can tell they best friends. They really alone. Low and damn. Behold it doesn't that man spreading it low and wide all across Atlanta, Chicago, New York, every state.

[A]

He and being jealous, miserable.

[C]

He jealous. It's a lot going on. We don't know that. I'm looking at the GQ couple quiz, y'. All dapping it up, talking about how best, like, stay out of people relationships, you know, I'm trying to say, like, you. You got to be in a relationship based on what feels right to you. Because at the end of the day, like, life is long and you're like, you at home a lot.

[A]

Not.

[C]

And if you're not happy at home, what's the point? So you got to be in a relationship that feels like home to you and feels right to you versus, like, being in a relationship because people think, what if you go, who gives it?

[A]

And. And similarly, what. What Jewel said, if a man likes to you, you'll know when you have found that correct one, you will know. It won't be confusing. It won't be a question mark. It'll be like, oh, no, there he is, period, Period.

[B]

No games, no questions. It's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

[C]

It won't be challenges. That don't mean it won't be any of those things. But like, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Part of me remembers. I think it was Jackie Harris who said that she was like, one advice she gave people to finding a man is get some business. And I think she more so.

[A]

No, that's really.

[B]

Because if you have shit going on, you don't.

[A]

You can't hyper focus on a man and his shortcomings and what he's doing and blah, blah, blah. It's like, baby, I got shit to do. I can't. I can't worry about you all day.

[B]

Yeah. So either we're talking or not. And then also those time periods where. Because I also have been in the trap where like, oh, I text back quick, often if I'm doing that, it's because I do have my phone in my hand. But when you are busy, I'm like, I'm in a class or I'm in a thing or I'm at work or I'm gonna like, I can't. I have something going on where I am not worried about. I don't have time to think. Why aren't you texting me back? Because I also am busy. And then you understand why, like, oh, this person just has a life.

[C]

And guess what?

[A]

If.

[C]

If I don't care how busy they are, I don't care what they got going on. If they really like, you want to.

[A]

See you, you gonna see. They will.

[C]

A man will move heaven and earth to see somebody, Baby. Let me tell you something. He could be busy. He could have been up at the crack of Dun in the morning and Ain't gonna be done with work till late at night. If a man wants to see you, he gonna imma drive by for five minutes on the way to my appointment and just say, Hey, 6:30 dinner. I brought you some fly. I brought you your favorite chips because I just saw them and they thought he like a man will. You know what I'm saying? Like a busy man. Don't give a damn if he really trying to see 1000%.

[A]

There's that. That's it for the questions. The only other thing that I have is an announcement that I found out from the back end of creator wrapped. So for those of you who don't know, Spotify does this thing where it tells if you are a creator on Spotify, a podcaster, it'll tell you the statistics of all of your listeners. So from that information, I learned that y'. All. I learned y' all top five favorite artists or most listened to artists of 2025.

[C]

Let's hear it.

[A]

Okay, let me. I can actually pull up. All I know is can I get.

[C]

I already know who that one is, but I want to know who the.

[A]

Whole one, y' all guess.

[B]

Number one, Drake.

[A]

Number one was Beyonce, which is like, oh, yeah.

[B]

Oh, Ari's got to be on the list.

[A]

Don't remember seeing her. Number two. Audience number two was Taylor Swift. I said, okay.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I said, okay, okay. Hey, so let me shut the up. Let me stop talking about Yalls fave.

[C]

Can I ask a question? Because y' all done spent years dragging me, and it turns out that I'm the core audience.

[B]

Whoa. Don't say y'.

[A]

All. Ryan was also a Swifty. Both of you. So I'm like, it's really just me. So I said, okay, maybe it's a kink.

[B]

Maybe everyone's like, they want you to drag their fave. That's why they like it also.

[A]

So I said, I'm gonna do a Taylor Swift. We're a Taylor Swift episode in 2026.

[C]

That makes me nervous.

[A]

We're gonna do a Taylor Swift episode. I fear that it'll be the three of us and I'll just face the other way the whole time. And I'll sometimes turn around and make a face, but. But you'll. Y' all would just see the back of my head the whole time. And you two can go at it.

[C]

Because I'm at the tail end of my.

[A]

I'm aware of you. I feel like you can get back into it if you go out my album. You think about it. I feel like you can get back.

[C]

I can definitely talk about.

[A]

And then when I posted on Instagram that I was gonna do a Taylor Swift episode, somebody I was like, I'm sorry for hating on Yalls fave. Whatever the hell. And somebody was like, no, you need to drag her though. She is my fave. She wasn't my top. Like, she needs to be dragged. And I said I did.

[B]

Two things can be true.

[C]

All of my faves. Beyonce, Brandi, everybody I love. I also am like. And here's right.

[B]

But one. Hey, my fave. I don't think you can.

[A]

Who can you drag? Ari, baby. I drag Ari regularly.

[C]

I need you.

[B]

What are we dragging her for?

[A]

Ariana Grande, regularly.

[B]

I. I don't think you can drag.

[C]

I'm thinking you to my Miley Cyrus or somebody because I know damn reasons.

[A]

For me it's not as easy. But you could drag. I could drag her.

[C]

Ariana Grande.

[A]

Yeah, I've dragged. I've dragged all of them.

[B]

I don't understand what we're dragging.

[A]

I don't think there's a white woman on the planet I can't drag. I'm not going to hold you.

[B]

You.

[C]

There's nothing.

[A]

So. Right. So. So that omits. Anyway, so.

[B]

Yeah. Who are the other three?

[A]

I want to.

[B]

Sorry, maybe I missed this post.

[A]

Find out. Actually, she didn't.

[C]

I don't think she told. I didn't.

[A]

I didn't. I didn't say. But I do have access to it real quick. So let me.

[B]

That's funny.

[A]

I also have a bunch of other stats maybe.

[B]

I mean, we can also offline about this. But that is fun. I. I love that. I wonder if it's just that Beyonce and Taylor Swift are also so big.

[C]

They're like, naturally they're gonna cross into whoever.

[A]

Drake was on there too, of course. Who? Drake was on there too, of course.

[B]

Of course. Right. It's probably just big artists. I mean, Bruno Mars, Lady Gaga.

[C]

Bruno ain't putting nothing out but Bruno be at the top of the top.

[A]

Some stuff be giving pale.

[B]

I swear to God, I'm like, how is Bruno?

[C]

I like Bruno, but I do too.

[A]

Our top episode of 2025 according to Spotify. So this wasn't true across platform platforms, but according to Spotify listeners was the Kendrick Lamar episode. I don't think either of y' all were on that.

[C]

Let's see if they said Liz Jeweler.

[A]

No, I'm screaming.

[B]

That's what they said.

[A]

Those two Love island reunion season seven got the most comments, of course.

[B]

Yeah. Fair.

[C]

I always Forget. I know people think I'm crazy when I say this. Not just on this podcast, but in general, I'm like, oh, I forget people actually read or listen to my stuff. If I remembered that, I wouldn't.

[A]

It's crazy. No, I. No, I definitely.

[C]

If I remembered that, I wouldn't show up.

[A]

Okay, here's the top artists. Here's the top artists. Number one was Beyonce. Number two was Taylor Swift. Number three was Kendrick Lamar. Taste. That's why the Kendrick Lamar episode was so high. Number four was Bad Bunny. Surprise me.

[C]

Okay, I know that's right.

[A]

Surprise me.

[B]

I love Bad Bunny, and I do love that.

[A]

Number five was Aubrey Crazy.

[C]

And then could we.

[A]

Could.

[C]

We almost had a perfect top five.

[A]

I know. It tells me what. What books that they listen to on Spotify as well. So the most listened to books is Matriarch Oprah's Book Club. Tina knows this book.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Oh, so we probably should do a Beyonce episode for shits and gigs, because that's the number one book.

[C]

And.

[B]

And you in danger, girl.

[A]

I'm not. Number two book is I'm Glad My Mom Died, Jeanette McCurdy. Number three book, Harriet Tubman Live in Concert by Bat Bob the Drag Queen. We should get Bob on here.

[C]

I would love.

[A]

We should get Bob.

[C]

Can we do a Traders episode? Look, a Trader episode. Can you imagine?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Wait, actually, that is no 100.

[A]

It is. It is. Number four book, the House of My Mother by Sherry Frankie. I don't know that book. And then number five, everything is Tuberculosis. Tuberculosis by John Green. So I guess. I guess tuberculosis thing. Top. Listen to podcasts. Aside from ours, the read. Number one, Smosh reads Reddit stories. Number two, higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay. Number three, friend zone. Number four, and my brother. My brother and me. I don't know that one. Number five.

[C]

Okay, I'll be honest and say I don't listen to a lot of talk podcasts. Y' all know I'm a narrative podcast girly, which is what makes this so ironic. I do know Van. I know higher learning, and I obviously know the read, but yeah, I don't listen to it.

[B]

The smosh one is the stories are fun. Like, it's very, very.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They're very interesting. No fun. Wow, look at that. Look a little a wrap, right? Look at. That's the wrap on the year.

[A]

This is the final episode of 2025. Thank you so much for writing in questions. We appreciate it a lot. If you liked this format, like, if you liked the fan mail format, let us know. Happy to incorporate it in more episodes or do it as a end of the year thing. Like let me know how you feel about it. For real comment, please. I would like that.

[B]

Also the live show, if you want that.

[A]

And if you want the live show, say that please. And if you want Taylor Swift, also say that. They already did say that.

[C]

And if you want to find a reason to back out, we already were very clear.

[A]

And if you want Beyonce, say that as well. That's it for today. Thank you for joining us on another episode of Black People Love Paramore. You can Watch us on YouTube across all social media platforms. You can find us at BPLP Pod. And if you want to write in more fan mail or anything of the sort, you can email at Black People Love Paramore gmail dot com. Okay, goodbye.

[C]

Bye.