Gilmore Girls

Summary

Podcast Summary: Black People Love Paramore – "Gilmore Girls"

Host: Sequoia Holmes
Guests/Co-hosts: Clarissa Brooks, Jewel Wicker
Date: October 2, 2025
Episode Theme:
A lively, humorous, and nostalgia-filled discussion of Gilmore Girls—its legacy, characters, racial dynamics, relationships, and cultural relevance, especially to Black audiences. The hosts reflect on the series’ rapid-fire wit, messy family dynamics, and its surprisingly cozy appeal as an autumn comfort show.

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Main Theme & Purpose of the Episode

The hosts dive into Gilmore Girls, exploring why this small-town Connecticut dramedy, centered on a single mother and daughter, resonates with Black viewers. The conversation weaves together personal anecdotes, analysis of family roles, character deep-dives, and playful debates about which Gilmore love interest ranks supreme.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Impressions and Lorelai/Rory Name Confusion

• [02:29] Sequoia jokes about Lorelai's "recreational argument," immediately connecting the show's tone to her own personality.
• [02:37] Jewel teases Sequoia’s confusion over Lorelai vs. Rory—"Which one?"—explaining that Rory is actually a nickname.
  • Notable Quote: Jewel: “Why would you say that? They're both Lorelai. And she was like, I thought she was Rory. Her name is Rory. I said, that's a nickname.” [03:02]
• The group marvels at quirky nickname traditions and the peculiarity of the name “Lorelai”.

2. Gilmore Girls as the Quintessential Fall Show

• [05:57] Jewel admits she didn’t remember the intense fall vibes or why it’s a “cozy” show until rewatching; she’s a self-professed “fall hater.”
  • Quote: “I will say watching Gilmore Girls did...thaw the ice in my chest a little bit...I watched it and I went, this is cozy.” [07:15]
• [07:51] Clarissa: “It's very Connecticut. Very... I don't know where it's Connecticut.”
• They discuss how Stars Hollow, though fictional and filmed on a backlot, feels rooted in New England small-town quirks.

3. Dialog, Pacing, & Timelessness

• [10:12] Sequoia gushes over the show’s fast, witty dialogue, comparing it to modern series like Succession:
  • “The pacing of the dialogue feels very, not of the times...the snappiness, the quickness, the wit.” [10:12]
• The group agrees this writing style set Gilmore Girls apart from its early-2000s peers.

4. Mother/Daughter Dynamics and “Parentification”

• [11:21] Clarissa shares that she bonded with her own (single) mother over Gilmore Girls:
  • “me and my mom just kind of projected ourselves onto this show of, like, single mom trying to find love, only child trying to go to college. And so a lot of our experiences felt reflected in that...” [12:29]
• [24:03] Sequoia asks if Rory is “parentified” due to Lorelai’s immaturity. Group agrees Rory’s straight-laced nature stems from this, and her later rebelliousness is a delayed reaction.
  • Quote: Jewel: “So many of her poor decisions later on... feel like a rebellion from the fact that you have been this... parentified kid your whole life.” [24:32]
• [23:43] Jewel notes the colder, more fraught relationship Lorelai has with her own mother, Emily, and how that shapes family dynamics.

5. Messy Families, Absentee Dads & Realness

• [19:53] Clarissa: “Worry’s dad...really needed to get...enough smoke on this TV. Not nearly enough smoke.”
• The group calls out how Lorelai’s “cool girl” persona sometimes enables absentee dad Chris.
• [21:32] Discussion of whether Lorelai is a “pick me” or just perpetually adolescent. Consensus: more self-centered than pick-me.

6. Relationships: The Messy, The Cozy, The Controversial

• [29:35] “Who’s ya’lls favorite?” is the question as they debate the merits of Rory’s boyfriends—Dean (sweet but basic QB), Jess (emotionally complex, intellectual match), and Logan (rich Yale guy).
  • Clarissa: “I love a spooky vibe. It’s always going to be Jess for me.” [30:17]
  • Sequoia notes Milo Ventimiglia (“Jess”) has aged especially well.
• [35:52] Affair drama: “Dean ends up having an affair with Rory, which feels very uncharacteristic of her and that kind of blows up her life.” [35:52]
• Lorelai/Luke and Lorelai/Chris dynamics revisited, including the pitfalls of dating Rory’s teacher.

7. Tropes, Stereotypes, and Representation

• [42:25] Strong reactions to Lane Kim’s “Asian best friend” trope.
  • Sequoia: “She only existed to do that, was really pissing me off. I must say.” [42:25]
  • Jewel and Clarissa point out Lane’s mom (Mrs. Kim) is a memorable character precisely because of her skepticism toward Stars Hollow’s white norms.

8. Politics, Culture & Why It Resonates with Black Viewers

• [46:09] Acknowledgment of the show’s blue-state snark (“And suddenly I agree with everything George Bush says.”)
  • “...It was very left blue Democrat...Lorelei is definitely much ... the Democrat of the family and brings in that, like, left politics sometimes...” [46:19]
• [65:09] Why the show is beloved by Black viewers:
  • Clarissa: “I think the wit. I think Black folks, the way that we...move with wit and the way that we speak to each other can be quick...The people in Stars Hollow feel very familial and quick with each other in a way that felt really familiar to me.” [65:09]
  • Also, seeing non-perfect white families and single moms depicted with joy, complexity, and full lives.

9. Fashion & Fall Aesthetic Legacy

• Discussion of Gilmore Girls’ underappreciated impact on current fall fashion trends.
  • “A lot of it is...either they might reference Gilmore Girls specifically, or sometimes it's like, basically the same...this is exactly what Lorelai would have been wearing.” [68:20]
• [69:11] Reveal: theme song is Carole King’s "Where You Lead."

10. Final Thoughts — The Reboot and Iconic Side Characters

• [69:29] Clarissa: “The reboot is not terrible.” (but gets weird, includes a musical, Rory ends up with Logan.)
• Love for supporting characters: Sookie, Ms. Patty, Babette, Luke, Lane, and Michel (the “only Black character”), all bring unique flavors.
  • “Sookie Lane. And I really liked the older Italian lady who runs the dance studio...Ms. Patty and Ms. Babette. Just two old hens gossiping about the town. Those are my people.” [58:26]
  • Jewel: “I'm gonna take Luke because he is grumpy...curmudgeon of the show." [58:55]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lorelei’s Parenting Style:
  “Lorelei gives me, as a mama, like, ‘I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just here to...I’m really like older bff.’” – Jewel [14:42]
• On White Privilege:
  Jewel: “There's a level of privilege we gotta acknowledge that, like, when you get a big bill that you can't pay, that you just go to your mama house and be like, I'll come to Friday dinners if you help me with it. You know what I mean?” [26:24]
• Single Mom Joy:
  “I experienced a mother more like Lorelei, who was like, I'm so happy to be here. I can't believe I get to be your mom. I’m having a great time...” – Jewel [67:05]
• On Pilot Episode Quality:
  “That was a great pilot. Pilots are never good. And that was a fantastic pilot.” – Sequoia [62:30]
• On Relationship Ranking:
  “If one's gotta go for Rory's love interests, and let's actually do the actors...” – Sequoia [54:21]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:19–05:14 — Introductions, explanation of show premise, discussion of Lorelai/Rory names
• 05:57–10:05 — Cozy fall vibes & why the show is a “fall show”
• 10:12–11:39 — Dialog, pacing, modern feel
• 12:29–15:00 — Mother-daughter comparisons, how the show mirrored real family lives
• 16:33–18:58 — Lorelai’s parenting, parental anxiety, and boundaries
• 19:53–23:39 — Absentee dads, Lorelai’s cool girl antics, family privilege
• 24:03–25:15 — Parentification of Rory and consequences
• 29:35–36:10 — Rory’s relationships, “who’s your favorite,” drama ranking, affair fallout
• 42:25–45:49 — Asian best friend trope, Lane’s family, stereotypes
• 46:09–48:01 — Political jokes, blue-state culture, Black network origins
• 65:09–67:46 — Why the show resonates with Black audiences, single motherhood joy
• 68:01–69:25 — Fashion, theme song, aesthetic influence
• 69:29–71:37 — The reboot discussion (spoilers)

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is energetic, candid, and peppered with pop-culture references, inside jokes, and self-deprecating anecdotes. The hosts blend sharp critique (especially about representation) with warmth, nostalgia, and genuine affection for the world Amy Sherman-Palladino built.

Gilmore Girls is celebrated for its wit, messy but loving families, shifting class dynamics, and for serving—perhaps unexpectedly—as a fall comfort watch for Black viewers who see reflections of their own quick-talking, love-filled homes amid the autumn leaves of Stars Hollow.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Clarissa Brooks]

Foreign.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Welcome to Black People Love Paramore, a pop culture podcast. Not about the band Paramore, actually, but about the common and uncommon interests of black people in order to help us feel a little bit more seen. And seen can be spelled one of two ways. Take your pick. I'm your host, Sequoia Holmes, and today we have Clarissa Brooks and of course, our fan fave, Jewel Wicker. And we're going to be talking about Gilmore Girls, but before we talk about Gilmore Girls, which I had never seen before, but I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed watching. In order to prepare for this episode, you know, we have to do the housekeeping. Rate us, you guys, please. I know that y' all have stopped doing that, but I need you to pick it back up. Pick it back up. Hit five stars if you're feeling it. Yeah, that's what I would prefer you do, because I think of myself as a five star. And if you are a five star, prove it. Hit five stars. Thank you very much. You know, we have merch. It'll be linked down below. All that good stuff. I think that's it. I think that's. That's really it for the. For the intro.

[Jewel Wicker]

Leave comments.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Leave comments to us. Because you'll be reading the comments. First of all, you'll be watching the episodes, which is crazy, too.

[Jewel Wicker]

I read. I read the comments first of all. I watch it back to see what y' all had me say, and I read the comments to see what people saying.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Right.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You'll be watching back. She'd be reading the comments. She be interacting with the comments.

[Jewel Wicker]

I'm trying to be better about actually commenting when I read the comment and not just reading the comment and going, huh? And scrolling. So I try to comment now.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She be responding back to y'. All. So, you know, we see. We see you. If you talking to us, we talk back to you. This is really a dialogue. The podcast is depending on what you.

[Jewel Wicker]

Say, I might not talk back, but mostly, yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Cuz don't get crazy.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, I'll primarily talk, but even if you get a little crazy, if you, you know, you say the right thing, I might. I might comment back for funsies. I love a discourse. I love an argument. I learned, like, I like recreational argument. I learned from TikTok. I didn't know that that was a thing that everybody didn't enjoy but apparently is a specific thing. Anyways, okay.

[Jewel Wicker]

Anyway, it don't matter.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Go on Gilmore Girls. You know who else loves recreational arguing is Lorelai Gilmore.

[Jewel Wicker]

Okay, which one?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Stop saying that, Jewel. You know who I'm referencing when I say Lorelai Gilmore. God damn it. Lorelai the OG the mom. She loves ar.

[Jewel Wicker]

She didn't realize that the daughter was also named Laura. L. So I have been trolling her for the past two days by saying, which one? Even though I feel I know she's talking about the mother.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Like, because please tell me why. I'm texting Jewel about how much I love Lorelei. And she's like, which one? I'm like, why would you ask me that? Like, what are you talking about?

[Jewel Wicker]

Why would you say that they're both Lorelai? And she was like, I thought she was Rory. Her name is Rory. I said, that's a nickname. She said, where did Rory come from?

[Sequoia Holmes]

I said, clarissa, do you know the answer to that question? Where did. Where did Rory come. Why did they call her Rory and not, like, Lorelai Jr. Or Lori or.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I don't know, not Lori. I don't think it gets explained either. But I do know it's a nickname, but I never see, like, her full name anywhere.

[Sequoia Holmes]

One of y' all is gonna know, and you're gonna be mad that we didn't know. Yeah, instead of being mad, just tell me. Okay, thank you. Just let me know.

[Jewel Wicker]

I just also feel like names back in the day, particularly. I mean, sometimes black names, too, but some. The nicknames never really went with the name right. You know what I'm trying to say? Yeah, like, Bob for Robert never made sense to me either. Or Lorelei, whatever. You know what I mean? Like, how am I to make sense of it? I don't know.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Lorelei. Not even like a real name. You know, like, it's a real name, but it's not even a comment.

[Jewel Wicker]

Where do we get Lorelai from?

[Sequoia Holmes]

And I love it.

[Jewel Wicker]

I.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Low key. Since I've been watching Gilmore Girls, I have been considering naming a child. I even like the spelling of it. L O R E L I. Cute.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah, you like that name?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Y' all don't like the name Lorelei?

[Jewel Wicker]

For what?

[Clarissa Brooks]

For a Victorian baby with jaundice.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And what makes you think I couldn't have a Victorian baby?

[Jewel Wicker]

Clarissa, why the baby gotta have jaundice?

[Clarissa Brooks]

I don't know. I just feel like small little children in that time had John did.

[Jewel Wicker]

I just. I. I don't dislike Lorelai. Like, I'm not sitting around being like, I've never hated a name more than I hate Lorelai, but it's certainly not a name that I'm like, oh, it didn't.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It didn't perk you at all when you heard Lorelai for the first time.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It's very delicate.

[Jewel Wicker]

It's like, as a matter of fact, the mama is so particular, like, the grandma is so, like, snooty that I'm trying to figure out how the hell she, snoots in particular, settled on Lorelei. Why not Emily? You know what I'm saying?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

Ruth, I don't understand how she got to Lorelei.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. No, that's fair. I am surprised that. That mom created, but I think she.

[Jewel Wicker]

Does, in one episode, say that it was a family name because she said that there was a Lore a lot before Lorelai. So. Yeah, I don't know.

[Sequoia Holmes]

So it makes more sense there.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah. Like it came from somebody else.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay, here's a little background on Gilmore Girls for those of you who may not know. It's an American comedy drama telev series created by Amy Sherman Paino, starring Lauren Graham and Alexis Bledell. The show debuted in October 5, 2000 on the WB. Remember the WB? What a time. And became a flagship series for the network. The show ran for seven seasons, with the last season being aired on the CW. It ended May 15, 2007. So I had a nice little run. I remember it, like, got. Yeah, I remember when I got picked back up on the cw and yeah, yeah, this is a very fall show.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Cozy.

[Jewel Wicker]

I never, I guess I, I. When I was watching season one this week, I was like, I remember this show. Like, every time I would watch an episode, I'm like, oh, I know how this ends. Like, I vividly remembered it from, like, childhood. But for whatever reason, before watching it again this week, I did not remember any of the fall element. And so I was like, why do people keep associating this with fall? Is really. And also, I'm a fall hater.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Can you explain that a little bit for us? Q, can you and Clarissa, your birthday's in October, right? Right.

[Jewel Wicker]

And so, yeah, so I'm not understanding, because I know your birthday is. I don't like it. It's a little too close to winter. I don't want to move in that direction. That's not the direction I want to go in.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Right.

[Jewel Wicker]

I don't like Halloween. It's not even. I don't like Halloween. I don't care about it. I don't care about Halloween. And now we look up and we. At the end of the year, and I'm cold, and it better not be no snow. I don't like. Yeah, I don't like that. I don't want to go in that. I Don't want to go in that direction. And it feels to me there's some sort of agenda going on. And I'm not sure who's behind it, but there's some sort of agenda where. Why are we talking about fall in June?

[Clarissa Brooks]

I think it's Starbucks.

[Jewel Wicker]

Why are we talking about falling Starbucks? I think Starbucks are the vlog. Why are vloggers looking for pumpkins?

[Clarissa Brooks]

Right.

[Jewel Wicker]

And leave in August in TJ Maxx in July? That is the type of propaganda I just can't get. I can't get behind. I will say watching Gilmore Girls did the thaw the ice in my chest a little bit. Like I watched it and I went, this is cozy.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Welcome. Welcome to fall.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Just a little bit. Not a lot.

[Jewel Wicker]

But then. But then I got like halfway through the season and it started to be a blizzard and snowing. And I said this. Exactly. What the hell?

[Clarissa Brooks]

I mean, it is snowing a lot on this show. Snowing all the time.

[Jewel Wicker]

At the beginning I said, this is really. Coz New England. It feels warm. It feels.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. It's very Connecticut. Very. I don't know where it's Connecticut.

[Jewel Wicker]

It is.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Wait, now. Now Stars Hollow is the neighborhood that Gilmore Girls, the. The town that they live in. Is that an actual place in Connecticut? Am I tripping? Do y' all know. I can't imagine that Stars Hollow was a natural question.

[Jewel Wicker]

I'm sorry.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Because it was filmed on a lot.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah. And you can tell in a lot of places that this was like a backdrop. Like it looks really fake.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Fictional Connecticut town from the television show Gilmore Girls. Now I'm confused why they chose the name Stars Hollow. It feels so fantasy. And there's no fantasy element for Gilmore Girls at all. So every time they said Stars Hollow, I was like, oh, they must be referring to the neighborhood and not the town. Like, there must be something that I'm missing. But no, they. They call it the town.

[Clarissa Brooks]

They do just mean the town. I think there are places in Connecticut that have that kind of name, though. I think.

[Jewel Wicker]

Oh, I think the person who wrote the show, Amy. Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I think she bases this on like, her experience going to some like. Like bed and breakfast.

[Jewel Wicker]

Because of the end.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

She drove to a bed and breakfast.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

In random Connecticut one day.

[Clarissa Brooks]

She's from this area. Something about the person who wrote the show. She's either from that area, had an. Like had an anniversary trip or something like that. But like, it is kind of loosely based on.

[Jewel Wicker]

That's not a state that crosses my mind. No offense to anybody from Connecticut. I don't want to be shady.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Right. I didn't know Boston was above New York until recently.

[Jewel Wicker]

You can't really ask me what's going on in that region.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Right.

[Jewel Wicker]

It's really not a good idea. I'm just gonna be honest with you about it.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Right, right. And I think that says something about public education, but.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, and it does. And I wasn't gonna say it.

[Clarissa Brooks]

When I moved to Philly, I was like, why is Jersey right now we right there?

[Jewel Wicker]

No. Yeah. I said, that's crazy.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Did you touch.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. I don't believe South Jersey is like, way more akin to a Philly than it is to a New York.

[Jewel Wicker]

To put it this way, I. When I went to Made in America in Philly, I ended up in Jersey on accident. Like, I ended up bridge hop, skipping the job, and I had no idea that I had crossed into a new, new place.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And that's okay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I'm not playing there.

[Sequoia Holmes]

But you didn't end up in Connecticut like Laura.

[Clarissa Brooks]

He wasn't there hours up too. Oh, my goodness.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I actually don't know much about Connecticut. I'm not gonna hold you. Anyways, what I do like about the show, first of all, the dialogue is incredible. The pacing of the dialogue feels very. Not of the times, you know, Like, I feel like the snappiness, the quickness, the wit.

[Jewel Wicker]

It's very.

[Sequoia Holmes]

There's. It's really witty and it moves really fast. And that feels kind of current to me.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Like, I don't remember shows of that time really being this quick paced, but I think of like a succession or something like that. And those have like the quick, snappy moments.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Clip like that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

The bear is really quick. Like those type of shows are really quick. And it makes the show so timeless because the first time, obviously this is my first time watching it. So when I turned it on, I expected it to be.

[Jewel Wicker]

More.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Lame, honestly. Yeah, I expected it to be a.

[Jewel Wicker]

Lot more late hold up more than I. Well, I just. The like, fast paced time, I guess it surprised me for this show, but I think Scandal came out a few years after this show would have ended. And they had that slapstick style after.

[Sequoia Holmes]

This would have ended.

[Jewel Wicker]

But season one came out in 2000, right, 2000. I guess that's fair. Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And they were fast.

[Jewel Wicker]

I don't know. I just feel like the characters are very well rounded and even when they get on my nerves, I'm like, oh, that is exactly what Lorelai would do. Oh, that is exactly what Rory would do. Oh, that's exactly what her Mom. You know what I mean? Like, even when I'm like, y' all are irritating as hell, they feel very fully formed.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, yeah. Fully able. What was I going to say? Okay, so my context with this show is that me and my mom watched this when it was coming out. So I was super locked into it. I'm an only child. My mom's a single.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I didn't know you were also. Oh, my God.

[Jewel Wicker]

Like, when you were watching it.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I was born in 95, so 2005. I was probably when it ended, I was 12.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

So I was probably watching when I was 10. And then they were doing reruns after it ended, and I was watching the W all the time. I was watching, like, half and half.

[Jewel Wicker]

Wow. I'm trying to figure out all the Kyle Pratt stuff.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Like, I was on.

[Jewel Wicker]

Oh, yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

The WB all the time. And UPN specifically.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

So they immediately started doing reruns after the show. Okay, okay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. So we started watching it, and, like, me and my mom just kind of projected ourselves onto this show of, like, single mom trying to find love, only child trying to go to college. And so a lot of our experiences felt reflected in that of, like, Rory wanted to go to Yale. I wanted to go to Harvard. Thank God I did not go to Harvard. But Rory wanted to go to Harvard, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted to do that. And just that, like, struggle of getting your only kid to school was our thing. I also was a latchkey kid, so I was watching SNL all the time. So that speed of talking was perfect. And I think it influenced how I talk, too. I think I talk really fast because of this show and sml.

[Jewel Wicker]

Interesting.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But, yeah, I was super locked in. All the characters, all the boyfriend stuff. I also didn't start dating, so I was a lot older. So locked in.

[Jewel Wicker]

I don't know. I watched it. I watched it in my granny house. And I'm trying to remember what age I would have been, because I remember watching it every single day. Like, I would when I do summer at my grandma's house. Every single day, I would watch an episode of Gilmore Girls. I used to also watch, like, seventh Heaven. And of course we watch Baby.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I used to think those were the same show. That's why I thought it was going to be lamer. I thought it was going to be way more like seventh Heaven.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It's very evangelical on seventh Heaven.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I thought it was gonna be like Dawson's Creek.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Dawson's Creek is awesome.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's what I thought. And I like Dawson's Creek. But I thought it was going to be more like that is like right.

[Clarissa Brooks]

On the edge of. They have some little raunchy jokes in there sometimes.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yes, that's fair. Yeah, I remember watching that. Of course we watch Maury because black grandma. I remember watching the show and I. I don't remember comparing because I grew up in a single mom household too. I don't remember like their relationship, although they were very close. And that reminded me of my mom. Lorelei was such a young, fun fly by the seams of my pants mama. And my mama was very much never gave that. So I certainly could not relate to the like, you know what I mean? Like, my mom was fun. I could talk to her about things like. And I even think my friends would probably consider her the cool mom.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

But she. You know what I mean? Like, I look at what Laura, like Lorelei was like, what she was wearing butterfly clips in her hair and like that. My mom said, baby, I'm an adult for real.

[Clarissa Brooks]

For real. Right.

[Jewel Wicker]

You know, like, Lore, like gives me as a mama, like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just here to. I'm really like older bff. I'm just kind of like, you know, doing my best. But yeah, it's really interesting to watch it back now that I'm actually older and like see how Lorelei is as a parent and how like their relationship is.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, yeah. To see how like weird it actually was sometimes.

[Jewel Wicker]

Sometimes, Yeah. I think that's the thing. I'm like, lorelei, what?

[Clarissa Brooks]

That's kind of weird. What would possess you to be an.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Adult A little, you know, because the opening scene of the pilot might not be the opening scene, but one of the early scenes of the pilot. They're at Loose Diner, I believe, and a man comes in trying to talk to Lorelei and also turns and sees Rory and is like, oh, she. She's kind of cute too, or whatever. And Lorelai's reaction wasn't quite weirded out enough for my personal taste. She's like, she's 16, bro, or something like that.

[Jewel Wicker]

It was just like a joke. It was like a thing that. It was like a bit that you could tell they. They do that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

They did often, regularly. Right.

[Jewel Wicker]

My mom would have been like, exactly.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Like if you don't move away from my 16 year old daughter, I certainly would have that. That was the reaction that I was expecting. So that being like one of the opening scenes, it didn't set the tone right to me. Like, I'm like, oh, I thought. Yeah, I thought the show was gonna be worse because of. Partially because of that. You know, like, that kind of. That was awesome.

[Jewel Wicker]

Compelling character, though, because she does give Teen mom so bad.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

You know.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, she does.

[Jewel Wicker]

She does give. Girl, I'm clueless, just like you. I'm trying to figure it out as I go, just like you. I really. You know what I mean? Like, there are times where she's like, I gotta be mom and I'm gonna be stern, and I'm gonna, like, lay down the law, quote, unquote. Or, like, I'm really gonna, like, try. Yeah. Okay. Well, girl, you can't do that. But for the most part, there are so many moments where she just seems so childlike.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

And I think that is so accurate for somebody who was forced to be a parent as a teenager. And it's like, I didn't really get to have my. The end of my teenage years or my twenties. And so I am currently also having it while parenting.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. And she only gets strict when it comes to Rory having a boyfriend and having unprotected sex. Like, that's the only time she really turns up. Other than that, she's super chill because she, like, trusts her kid. But as soon as a boy is around, she's like.

[Jewel Wicker]

That's what she starts to, like. Yeah. Really have. Even before they get to the sex part. Like, the anxiety she has about her dating or the anxiety she. Because she. It's like this fear of, like, oh, my God. Like, she's gonna turn. Even though they are complete opposites.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

It's like this fear of, like, oh, my God, I don't want her to become me kind of thing, which is really.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, because there's this episode where Lorelei. Not Lorelei. Rory, accidentally stays out all night because she falls asleep with her not yet boyfriend. Soon to become boyfriend. Right. Okay.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Like, where she just. Her new. Her new boyfriend. They. They false. They don't have sex. They're in, like, a public place, and they fall asleep, like, on a haystack or some shit. Very. Again, fall 2000. And rightfully, Lorelei freaks the out because she's like, oh, absolutely. You've been out all night. You think I'm stupid. Like, I know what happened. And Roy's like, no, you know, I did not do anything with that man. Now, that was confusing to me, because how would I know that?

[Jewel Wicker]

No, I thought that was a fear. I thought that was fair. Because I think, like, Lorelei knows her kid. This is a kid who goes to the School dance with a book in her bag. Like, she knows her kid. And I think she also knows when her kid is lying. And so I think if, like, Rory comes home and is like, I fell asleep. My bad. Like, I do think she knows she didn't do. I think she's scared and she has anxiety because she was a teen mom. But I think deep down, she always knew that nothing happened. And I do think the fact that her mama was there when it all went down, like, added a little more battery in her back than, like, oh, yeah. She would have even had on a regular. Her. Her thing was, like, for a few seconds, I didn't know where my kid was. So definitely for safety reasons. And also, I know what I was doing when I was younger.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Exactly.

[Jewel Wicker]

I wouldn't have been sleeping with a book in my hand.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Jewel Wicker]

So, like.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

But I think beyond that, she genuinely didn't know that Rory didn't do nothing.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. A lot of her anxieties are, like, everything except for Rory. It's like, what she would have done. Her mom stuff. Also her tension with her mom. I think as I've rewatched, it feels more like what me and my mom's actual relationship was, which was, like, constantly battling our perceptions of each other and that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You mean Rory's tension with Lorelei or Lorelei.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Lorelei and Emily.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Like, that kind of constant back and forth. As I. As I'm an adult now, I'm like, oh, that was actually us. We weren't. We weren't actually.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I feel that way too, about me and my mom.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But, yeah, just, like, constantly at odds. But re. Watching it. I'm like, Emily and her were so just embattled all the time, which is hard to re. Watch. And also worry's dad. He really needed to get. He really didn't get enough smoke on this. On this tv.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Not nearly enough smoke. Because when it was time for Rory to have her little cotillion or coming out party on. What the. Whatever the hell. That was weird, too. Talking about all the Daughters of the Revolution.

[Clarissa Brooks]

That was weird.

[Sequoia Holmes]

The ancestors of the Daughters of the Revolution get to have a cotillion and come out in front of everybody. I don't know what the hell that was about. Anyways. Very white mess. When Lorelei calls the dad and it's like, hey, so, you know, Rory's doing this thing, and the dad is supposed to walk her down the aisle. Whatever it is you never show up for, you always say, you're gonna be here, you're Never here. You owe her. You need to be here for this. And he's like, okay, I'll be there. And he's smiling on the other line as Lorelai is laying into him for never showing up for her daughter. What the is funny?

[Clarissa Brooks]

I didn't like that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You bum ass is funny.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I didn't like that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I didn't like that whatsoever.

[Clarissa Brooks]

And then later on when he gets remarried and has a kid, I think there's a episode where Rory goes to the baby shower and Lorelai comes and I don't. It was just something about like. I think Lorelai plays very like, I want to be one of the boys. I want to be like very much cool girl.

[Jewel Wicker]

And it gets him off the hook in a lot of ways. Right.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Because there's no reason she needed to be there. There's this kind of constant pressure for like Lorelai to be cool with Rory's dad in a way that I'm like, you really could have been like, it's really not my business. Like my kid is here. Let me know when to pick them up. I don't need to be here. But obviously Rory's like, I don't want to be here by myself. But yeah, that's always my disappointment when I rewatch. It is like Lorelei really is like the ultimate cool girl that I think I put in my brain. I was like, I want to be cool with everything. And then I'm like, no, actually I don't.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Or like cool is there. Is there distinguish. Like, is she different than a pick me or is she landing in pick me?

[Jewel Wicker]

She doesn't give full pick me to me. I mean there. It's early 2000s, so certainly moments. But like she. There are also times where she doesn't give pick me to me. Yeah. She just gives self centered and like just perpetual state of child teenager. You know what I mean? Like it just gives unaware and aloof in a way. It doesn't give like I'm doing this for the like attention of men necessarily.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. But I think, yeah, I think that's mostly because she like had a business to run. Like she has stuff to do.

[Jewel Wicker]

She had stuff that she literally did have things to do. She had a kid. And she also like as much as again, she wasn't like a absent parent. Like she was childish, but she was like, I give a about my kid. Like I'm Jennifer Mike. So like not only do I have a business or I have a kids race.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

And I'm like actually very involved in like the raising of this child and, like, her well being. I don't know. I think it's interesting that y', all, like, talk about Lorelei and her mom's relationship, because I think that's the one thing my mom and I did have in common with Lorelai and Rory is I feel like I could have been that kid that was like, you know, know, I didn't do anything. My mom would have been like, yeah, girl, I know. Like, she. That, like, trust in that. Like, like. Oh. I just really, truly feel like you get me. You get on my nerves sometimes. We have, like, conflict with our. So I just. I don't know. I think it's so interesting to see her and her mom in this constant. Like, I just don't like. Her mom at one point is like, I really don't get her. Like, I don't know her.

[Clarissa Brooks]

They really don't, like, get her.

[Jewel Wicker]

I do not understand this. And I'm like, that seems like such a rough. And we see it play out in the relationship time and time again. Like, it just makes for the, like, roughest dynamic.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. Yeah. It's uncomfortable to rewatch. I'm like, oh, y', all, really? Yeah. But they do feel like a mirror to each other, obviously. Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

And it's like, even when they're trying to understand each other, it's because they're, like, polar opposites. And it's. Rory and Lorelei are polar opposites, too, but there is, like, a mutual respect and understanding there that's different. Maybe it's generational, too, but, like, for whatever reason, these polar opposites just continue to clash even when they're doing their best to, like, make space for each other.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Now, shifting gears a little bit, and this is, like, an actual question, because I didn't get all the way through the series, obviously. Do we feel like Rory was a bit parentified because of how childish Lorelai is or was?

[Jewel Wicker]

I think. I think Laura. I think Rory was a little bit parentified.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. I think that towards the end of the season, she's a season where she ends up kind of not being on speaking terms with Lorelai anymore and living with Emily. And that's like, kind of her rebellion era, because she. She honestly, she starts lying, and that kind of ruins her relationship with Lorelai. And I. I think it's because she was parentified. I think she was like, I've actually been responsible with her that I was.

[Jewel Wicker]

About to say, like, so many of her poor decisions later on are, like, very clearly poor decisions, but also feel Like a rebellion from the fact that you have been this, like, type A organized, parentified kid your whole life, and you've been very, like, gotta do this to go to Harvard. Gotta do this to, like, kind of. You know what I mean? Like, not taking care of your mom, but, like, gotta make sure she remember to wash her underwear because she don't remember that she ain't got nothing. You know what I mean? Like, these kind of things so that when you become a little older, you start just doing silly shit.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. Drinking.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah. Yeah. I definitely think, like, that what we see from her in, like, later seasons come from the fact that she was such a. Like, straight and narrow and a little bit parentified as a kid.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting you realize how much money they have towards the end of the seasons, because I think there's this season where she's living in the guest house at Emily's and she just has, like, multiple Birkins. Rory.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I was like, is that a.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Do they get money? Because I remember they were kind of broke in the first season. Not. No.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Emily the grandma.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Emily the grandma, yes. Which always confused me because I'm like, why? Why are Lorelei and Rory so broke and Emily got all this money?

[Jewel Wicker]

I hate to be this person, but, like, when I think about it, it does give, like, privileged white person who is, like, determined to prove that they're doing their own. So it's like, no. Like, you know what I mean? And, like, not that it wasn't justified that she kind of wanted to get up from her mom. Damn near disowned a girl because she got pregnant. Like, they were, like, very disappointed, pleased with her. So I understand her moving to another town and wanting to start a life, wanting to provide for her kid and show that she was doing it all on her own. There is a level of privilege we got to acknowledge that, like, when you get a big bill that you can't pay, that you just go to your mama house and be like, I'll come to Friday dinners if you help me with it. You know what I mean? Like, that is a level of privilege that I feel like we kind of like, that's.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

She has a safety net. She's choosing not to use it because she knows that that comes with, like, her mom's judgment and shame. And that's kind of what she works herself out of. But it's always there, and Rory leans on it pretty heavily. Once she goes through that rebellious stage, she starts to be like, yeah, I got money. I wanna. I don't want to work this hard.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I want a Birkin period. All I got to do is walk in this cotillion or whatever.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Right.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She's like.

[Clarissa Brooks]

And I like my grandma, which is crazy.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She sure did. Yeah, she always. Which kind of goes back to what we were saying about Emily and Lorelei being mirrors of each other, and then Lorelei and Rory being mirrors of each other. It kind of makes sense that Rory and Emily would like each other. I'm sure Emily learned from her mistakes with Lorelai.

[Jewel Wicker]

I was about to say it's also the grandparent thing.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Didn't want to, you know, don't want to ostracize her only granddaughter for making less than perfect decisions.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah. Because I feel like. I think about. I was thinking about that when I was watching earlier today, actually, because I'm like, there's so many times where, like, my grandma, specifically her kids will be. Can tell you all the ways, right. She had eight kids. Like, whatever little issues they had with her as a mama, even the oldest grandkids will be like, let me tell you about that lady. Me, I'm like, granny's baby. I loved her. That was a nice lady. She didn't do nothing but make me pancakes and grits and. And I ain't got no issues with Francis. And everybody's like, this is a. We don't know her.

[Clarissa Brooks]

She limits to society. Yeah, that's exactly what I.

[Jewel Wicker]

But I also think I got to have that relationship with her because she knew I didn't see her that way. So because I'm looking at you with loving eyes, it's easier for, like, you don't feel judged. You don't feel like your past is, like, caught up to you, so you get to be, like, doting and loving. And I feel like that's, like, the privilege of grandparenthood is you get to kind of, like, try to do it over and kind of, like, wipe the slate king. And I think about that with Rory and her grandparents, too.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. That's exactly how mine was with my grandma Macy. My mom would be like, she was a menace of society. I'm like, I love her.

[Jewel Wicker]

Lovely lady. I. No notes. She was great. And everybody's like, literally, my nobody but me calls. All of the grandkids call her Ma, as in mama, you mean? They all call her Mommy. And I'm the only one that calls her grandma. I'm like, hey, Granny Grandma. And they're like, that lady Mommy was Mommy. She was mean.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

Like, and it was, like, an endearing nickname. Like, by the time they called her that towards the end of her life, it was like, hey, mommy. Like, what's going on?

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

Like it became a running joke and I'm like, granny. Yeah, that's very similar. It's like. Yeah, you get to kind of. It's an image revamp.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Get a second chance a little bit.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay, y', all, now let's get into the relationships of the season. There's a. Of the. Of the entire show. There was a lot of relationships over the course of this, what, like six season, five season show, seven season show. We have Rory and Dean, Lorelei and Luke, Lorelei and Chris. Yeah, there's a lot of different stuff. Who's Yalls favorite? Who. And also, who is Logan? I feel like Logan. I haven't gotten to a Logan episode yet.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Logan is Rory's boyfriend at Yale.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. So when she goes off to college. Oh, so she doesn't go to Harvard. She ends up going to Yale. Was she heartbroken about not getting into Harvard?

[Clarissa Brooks]

She got it fully paid for by that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. Hey.

[Jewel Wicker]

Oh, is that what happens? Okay. Because see, I again, have not watched it. I. It's definitely the later season since I was a kid. So she applied, she wanted to go to Harvard, but she ended up at Yale.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. Because her grandfather isn't alone. And so she was like, nepotism. I don't wanna. And he was like, I'm gonna pay for it.

[Jewel Wicker]

And she was like, okay, interesting.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'll go to. Yeah, yeah, why not? I mean, as we.

[Clarissa Brooks]

All right.

[Sequoia Holmes]

What was your favorite relationship?

[Jewel Wicker]

Imma let Clarissa Lee. Because again, I, I remember the like.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Contours, but yeah, you know, I love a spooky vibe. It's always going to be Jess for me. Yes. Yeah. I love a mentally ill character.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Jess is Milo. He was the dad from this is us. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

And this is him like as a, as a young, super young actor.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Baby, baby, baby. And he has improved so much as an actor. Oh my God. That's the. That's the one thing I noticed about the show overall. Quick note before we get into the rest relationships. The acting when it came to conflict, not strong. The acting when it came to like regular day to day conversation. Very strong. The way them characters are built on regular stuff. As soon as they had to scream at each other or something, I was like, please.

[Jewel Wicker]

It did. It did. Give, please. Action.

[Sequoia Holmes]

100 and get out.

[Jewel Wicker]

Okay. I remember.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I never liked you anyways. Mom, you're not gonna talk to me like that in my own house. Mom, I'm Like, I can't. Yeah, I'm actually terrified.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

I'm looking at these pictures, and I do remember him in this show, but, like, I. Was he supposed to be a bad boy or what is the.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yes, he was. He was, like, troubled. He was the diner worker. Luke's. He was Luke's.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Luke's nephew.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Nephew. Like, it was some type of. Yeah, Luke's nephew. He comes to live with him and he doesn't want to. He seems super resentful, very chip on the shoulder.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, he's, like, getting into fights. He can't stay in school. He can't keep a job. And when I think about it, it honestly couldn't have lasted because obviously Luke and Lorelai get together, so that would have been just right. Touching. Great touching. Incestuous.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, that would have been weird.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But I like the dynamic of it. Felt like that was the only person that was intelligence wise, matching Lori. You know, Dean is cool. You know, he's sweet boy, beautiful gowns. Quarterback of the neighborhood back there.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. He doesn't have much going on, and he kind of always floats around like. They definitely were, like, spinning the block on each other for a long time, her and Dean, but it never really felt too real. Jess and Rory felt like it was the first time she had to be in real conflict with somebody and face. Like, you have a lot of money. That's weird.

[Jewel Wicker]

And I don't care how your first, like, boyfriend is, though. Do they not stick around longer than they should and really not have no depth? But you just kind of, like, spin the block on them because they've been there the whole. You know what I mean? Like, that is kind of.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Oh, I said, I'm going to school. Bye.

[Jewel Wicker]

Bye, Clarissa. You ain't talk to them again after that?

[Clarissa Brooks]

No, I got him on Instagram.

[Sequoia Holmes]

He liked my story.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But once I got into Spelman, I said, this has been a blessed time.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And have a good one.

[Jewel Wicker]

Had y' all just started dating before you went to school?

[Sequoia Holmes]

No, we were there for two years. Oh, I'm done. I'm done.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I gotta hit the streets.

[Jewel Wicker]

What do you mean you gotta hit the streets? And after two years? What do you mean? Okay, so y' all dated for two years. You go off the Spellman, and you said, so what you about to get into?

[Clarissa Brooks]

I said, Once August 2nd hits and I get on 85, the specific date.

[Jewel Wicker]

Is about to piss me off.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm gonna go.

[Jewel Wicker]

Okay, so. Okay, so even summers, if you went home for the summers, you weren't like, I'm in town like you. It wasn't a Thanksgiving. That's strength, sister.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Good for you.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, a real Libra. I found a new crush immediately, as soon as I got there. Had to be narrow, but. But I do think with Dean, they, like, just floated around each other. I think Rory was always trying to, like, understand or make just like her or not like her, but, like, show attachment, show like that. He really loved and cared about her. And it always came out in very chaotic ways. Like, he was definitely having intense, super, like the classic avoidant.

[Sequoia Holmes]

The classic.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Anytime they had a loving moment, he would be like, I gotta go knock over a fire hydrant.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yes.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I gotta go do something that will get me kicked out of Luke's house.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Right.

[Clarissa Brooks]

So. Yeah. But that was my favorite. And then Logan was college boyfriend.

[Sequoia Holmes]

He.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Oh, yeah, yeah. He was a college boyfriend there. He just also was super privileged and it felt like a bit more equally yoked. But I don't. I think the only person that pushed Rory was Jess, especially around class. Like, that was the only person that was like, not impressed. Don't care.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. And is it Dean or. How long was Rory with Jess or Dean? I can't remember. Was she with both of them for, like a solid amount?

[Clarissa Brooks]

She was. She was going back and forth, back and forth.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She was going back and forth. Okay. I was looking on the Internet and I think it was. Dean becomes controlling, more controlling over time. And, like, people kind of fall out of love with his character in general. How'd y' all feel about Dean? Where do you stand on Dean today when you look back at it, you know, as a 30 year old?

[Clarissa Brooks]

I love the actor. Like, when I see the actor now, he's cool, but the character.

[Sequoia Holmes]

What is that face? You don't like the actor?

[Jewel Wicker]

The actor cool again, Been very long. The only thing I remember about Dean is the whole affair thing and like, how it became an issue, like, between Lorelei and Rory. Like, I. I remember that being a big blow up and a big, like, plot point.

[Sequoia Holmes]

So for those of you who don't know, Dean gets married.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And Rory ends up. Or Dean ends up having an affair with Rory, which feels very uncharacteristic of her. And that kind of blows up her life. Question mark.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. Because her mom starts only child. Her mom don't like that. Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

Parentified straight and narrow books to the dance. You know what I mean? Sometimes it happens.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You do. It happens. I really do like how real the show was. Like the single mom trying to find love on her own, making Bad decisions along the way.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Rory, you know, being book smart and. And damn near perfect until she's very much not, you know, because she has been so printified. And this is life, you know, sometimes it is messy like that.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. Sometimes you gotta have a harlot era, you know, just break up a home.

[Jewel Wicker]

And I also think it. It.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It's like break up a home. Shrug.

[Jewel Wicker]

I'm not justifying an affair, but I also think, like, because of who Rory was as a character, like there was so much expectation on Rory being better than this or Rory does it. You know what I mean? And it's like, yeah, sometimes people are saying just people are silly. People abound. You know what I mean? Like.

[Sue (advertisement voice)]

Hey, it's sue, the subway train. Hey, guess what, Sue? I just inherited a game show and I have to continue it because there are people out there who like to curl up into a ball and listen to it. Yeah, it's a podcast where listeners submit game show ideas for others to play on air. Well, it is in fact, the dumber the better, right? Right. It's called Dr. Game Show. Some curled up balls consider it a tradition, while others call it a train WR. No, not you, Sue. It's Dr. Gameshow. If you're the sort that likes to listen to people competing for refrigerator magnets, then curl up into a ball and listen to Dr. Games show every other Wednesday. MaximumFun.org.

[Sequoia Holmes]

If you want to know what's going on in the world of movies, you should be listening to Maximum Films so we can tell you all about it. Okay, but what if you already know what's going on in the world of movies? What if you're kind of obsessed with movies? Movies, like maybe you have a problem. Well, then you should definitely be listening to Maximum Film, because we too have that problem. And it's important you know you're not alone. We're talking indies. You'll want to seek out blockbusters and blockbusting wannabes, classics we can't get enough of. I'm comedian and writer Kevin Avery. I'm film critic Alonzo Duraldi. I'm festival programmer and producer Drea Clark. Together we're Maximum Film Smart about movies in Hollywood, so you don't have to be. But if you already are, that's also great. And hey, we see you new episodes Every week on MaximumFun.org I knew it. Oh, I got them. Knew it, y'. All.

[Jewel Wicker]

Guess I'm not.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I don't want to know if it's a Libra. I don't you can't say it.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And I knew. October 8, baby. October 8. Rory Gilmore's astrological sign is Libra. She was born on October 8th. Moon sign, Pisces.

[Jewel Wicker]

That's why I felt pregnant. Like I said, at the end of the day, we all made a mistake. At the end of day, we all make mistakes. And that's why I said that before I even knew she was one of us. I said, at the end of day, we all make mistakes. I said that. Didn't I say that? So we got. We. You know what I mean? Things happen. Sometimes things happen, and you ain't even know what's gonna happen. And now you just gotta deal with it.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Right?

[Sequoia Holmes]

So the infidelist. The. The infidelity. Libra.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. Well, I was gonna say Libras are known for cheating.

[Sequoia Holmes]

So that was about to say. And that is a. That is a known leaver trick. That is one that y'.

[Clarissa Brooks]

All.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yes. That is one that y' all seen it before.

[Jewel Wicker]

I didn't know that was the thing that my people was known for.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You still got something. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I'm not gonna put my business out there like that, but I love.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I love Ryan real bad, so I'm just.

[Jewel Wicker]

Wait.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Oh, but I think the parentifying thing does that thing where, like, she doesn't actually have people. Yeah. People expect her to have the skills to be an adult, but she's actually not.

[Jewel Wicker]

She doesn't because she's.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She's not an adult.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. And that showed with it with the stuff with Bean. She also had another love interest named Tristan.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I was about to say. Tristan was a boy at the new school. Right.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Chad Michael.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Chad Michael Murray.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. She really had a good little.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She was on a run.

[Clarissa Brooks]

We're getting the best little. Little white boys for you, period. Because all four of them are literally, like, famous lit.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yes.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Fine.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Even to this day. Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah, even. Who was it? Amanda Tanner from Scandal. I said, why is Amanda Tanner beefing with her at this school? Exactly. She was the girl. She was the. What was her name? Paige or. What was her name?

[Sequoia Holmes]

The one that wants to keep her off the paper.

[Jewel Wicker]

Paris. Her name was Paris. Yeah, Paris. I mean, there are a lot of people who show up.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Melissa McCarthy is Suki.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Melissa.

[Clarissa Brooks]

That's how I met. I said, y' all don't know Melissa McCarthy. I know myself.

[Jewel Wicker]

I know.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I know Melissa McCarthy.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I know my Suki. So.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Wow. I had no idea that so many people got their start from Gilmore Girls as I was watching and I saw Melissa McCarthy as I saw Chad Michael Murray as I saw Milo, who I really didn't recognize. Garrick had to tell me that was him. I was like, you didn't. I had. I didn't believe even when Garrick was dead. Ass. Like, pausing. He's like.

[Jewel Wicker]

He literally looks like you guys. A. Like, literally. You just aged his face. His face is the same everything.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I have some level of facial recognition blindness that if you are not in the exact context that I'm used to you seeing. Seeing you in. Even if I see you every day in person. Person, I don't know who the hell you are. If you're in a different context, I don't know you.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Adam.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I was confused. Who.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Adam Brody.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Adam Brody pops up. When was he.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Adam Brody is Lane's boyfriend.

[Jewel Wicker]

Who else? There was something.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Lane is Asian best friend.

[Sequoia Holmes]

We. And we can't. We can't get away from this without talking about the Asian best friend and the stereotype, the trope that was very, very present at all times. Her being just in the books, very smart, reciting facts at every turn and only existing to do that was really pissing me off. I must say. It was really pissing me off.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It was just stressing me out. I just felt like Lane was like. I was just like, this is so much to keep up with. Like, the lies, the. Like, putting the books in the floorboards. You said I can't keep up with. Right. I was like, I. This is. This is my truest Libra freight. I'm not going to keep the lies up.

[Jewel Wicker]

Up.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I'm gonna slip up. That mama would have got me for a certain. I would have been like, oh, really?

[Jewel Wicker]

Okay, Clarissa. So you feel like you're just kind of like, I just gotta tell you what happened because I'm not keeping up with.

[Clarissa Brooks]

No, not even that. I feel like she would. I feel. I feel like Lane's mom would be like, yeah, so Lane's doing this, this, and this. And I'd be like, yeah, she's doing that. And she'd be like, well, that's not what Lane told me.

[Jewel Wicker]

And I'd be like, well, girl, I gotta go.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Well, I'm going home.

[Clarissa Brooks]

And then she would buy her.

[Jewel Wicker]

What do we do with that? I gotta go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But her mom was really intense to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Asian stereotypes are definitely strong in that. Yeah, yeah. But they were like, even that family. And it was really fleshed out. Like, the ceremonies felt, like, really accurate. Obviously, I'm not Asian. I don't know. But, like, everyone on the show felt really full.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Even in their stereotypeness. And then, of course, Lane, it was.

[Jewel Wicker]

Definitely, like, stereo typical.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

But I really also really enjoy the mother because I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I can't speak for, like, Korean culture, but in black culture, like, I know kids who grow up with parents who won't let them go nowhere, don't let them do nothing. Definitely are very much. You know what I mean? Like, you can't kiss no boy. You're gonna get pregnant. Like, you know those parents. And so I. I don't know. I really, like, even. Even through the stereotypes, I really liked her mom. Mom's character.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. And she's the only character that just is like, I don't trust these white people. Like, what make little digs being like, I know. I know how y' all act. I know how you let your kid act.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah. I see how your child be running the muck. And let me tell you what you not finna do to bring that over here to my household.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I saw an episode, she was handing out pamphlets of some sort. I don't know what the. Exactly the pamphlet was, but she tried to give one of Rory, and Rory's like, okay, thank you. And she gave her another one. She was like, give it to your mom, too. I said, period, lady.

[Jewel Wicker]

I'll never mess with her. I never missed her.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She's ruthless. I'm actually surprised she let Rory. She let her daughter hang out with Rory at all.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It was understandable for that reason because.

[Jewel Wicker]

She said, yeah, a teen mother under constant supervision.

[Clarissa Brooks]

They have been friends for all of their life. She was like, I have known you since you were in kindergarten. I guess I will allow you into my house because my child seems to be a fan of you.

[Jewel Wicker]

But I make it clear at every turn that I do not support your mama behavior. And by my daughter, I just mean getting pregnant as a teenager and not getting.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And if I even spot a second of it in you, Rory, you will be out of here before you can count to three.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Right. Mind you, Lorelei, a business owner, a.

[Jewel Wicker]

Loved community, literally loving mother, very attuned to what's going on with her child. Her child has a place to talk about the things that she's doing and has going on. Don't care. Team Mom.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She said, I don't like that.

[Jewel Wicker]

I. I see what you're talking about.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm seeing stuff about political undertones in Gilmore Girls. Hold on. They was really. Oh, okay. Hold on. They got little jokes. Lorelai gets $75,000 from Richard, and she says, and suddenly I agree with everything George Bush says.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, period.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I know that's right. Lorelei references, quote, unquote, the enemy. And Rory says, oh, Republicans, period. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. It was very, like, left blue Democrat. They were definitely giving, like, left blue Connecticut Democrats. Very like Bernie Sanders. They never like. I think they talk about communism at one point on the show because there's actually a few fan pages where they will just, like, take edits from the show and then just, like, put, like, different types of quotes on it. But yeah, Lorelei is definitely much. She is the Democrat of the family and brings in that, like, left politics sometimes and makes all the, like, comments about Republicans and how conservative they are, which is helpful. And I think for me, as a kid, I was like, okay, maybe these are the kinds of white people that do exist in the world.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Right, Right. No, no, no. I. I really appreciate stuff like this because this is what it was early 2000.

[Clarissa Brooks]

This was like after 9 11.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It didn't.

[Jewel Wicker]

I was about to say, like this. That's the thing is, like, watching the show back, the 2000s references are so.

[Sequoia Holmes]

They're really strong.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

The Bush joke.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Good.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yes.

[Clarissa Brooks]

And people weren't making jokes about him because of 9 11. Everybody felt like you had to be this patriot and, like, always be loving the administration.

[Sequoia Holmes]

So I don't give a.

[Jewel Wicker]

If I want.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And I will indeed.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Right. And the kids are getting left behind, so.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And they. And they did. And she said, you know, who won't.

[Jewel Wicker]

Rory, to this day.

[Clarissa Brooks]

And we're seeing it in real time.

[Sequoia Holmes]

We see the. The fruits of George Bush's labor. Rory ends the season as Barack Obama's campaign reporter as well.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm really surprised that a show that was on the CW and the WB was like, yeah, right. Blue at this time.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yes. And it was on, like, a black network.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It was.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It was on what was considered still a black network, the CW or like.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Are you talking about the wb?

[Clarissa Brooks]

Didn't the WB and UPN form the cw? Yeah, so that's what I'm thinking. Like, the. The audience for both of those things was black. It got wider over time because they got rid of all the black shows. But, like, most of the base of folks that were watching it were black folks coming from one on one half and half. What's that? Not that it was an ed show, I'm forgetting. But yeah, the audience was pretty left already. So it may says there Wasn't much else.

[Jewel Wicker]

Did you want to be a journalist when you were a kid? Like, were you identifying with her in the early days of her wanting to be a journalist?

[Clarissa Brooks]

I did. I think that was it, too. I definitely did want to be a journalist. I originally wanted to be a fashion designer, and then I realized I couldn't draw, so that went out the window. But watching the show, I was like, okay, journalism is an option. Because I was, like, super nerdy, reading books with the flashlight under my blanket. So I was like, she is. I.

[Jewel Wicker]

That's because I was like that. And it never occurred to me. I was telling Ryan this the other day. It never occurred to me to be a journalist. Like, when people. I sometimes feel like I have, like, oh, I'm not supposed to be here, because I'll, like, hear from, like, colleagues who are like.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Like.

[Jewel Wicker]

I was reading GQ when I was 6, and I dreamed about the day that I would get my bet. My first. And I'm like, why would I have been reading gq? Like, I literally, like, it's so. It. Like, obviously now I'm like, oh, very. I love this, like, great. Great by lines and stuff. I don't think I thought about journalism till college.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, I think it was. I was more like Seventeen magazine. I was reading 17 magazines.

[Sequoia Holmes]

17 down, collecting those.

[Clarissa Brooks]

And I was like, like, literally in my head, I was like, I want to be 17 years old so bad. And then I got there, and I.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Was like, seventeen magazine. And the idea of being 17.

[Jewel Wicker]

I didn't read none of that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You didn't read Seventeen either.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I was obsessed.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I wasn't reading Teen Vogue. Teen Vogue. This was before it, like, shifted into being interesting when I was a kid. So it's still, like. It wasn't interesting at the time. It was, like, kind of a thick book. And it just, like, was.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, when they had the small frame, it was.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It was small, too. Yeah, it was a thick, small book.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yep. I'm forgetting what that editor.

[Jewel Wicker]

I don't even know where I would have seen Team Vogue.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It was always at the grocery store. I was always going to the grocery store and asking my mom to buy the magazines.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I was like, the dentist.

[Clarissa Brooks]

17. Team Bug.

[Jewel Wicker]

Word up. Right on.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Right on.

[Jewel Wicker]

I don't know. And mind you don't. None of them got no. What was the words in them books? I was looking at the pictures.

[Sequoia Holmes]

What about.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I wanted to be like, oh, J. 14 was good, too. I just wanted to be in the know. I was very like, I need to go to New York. I need to, like, be a fashion editor. And I love layout, so I was like, I want to, like, learn how to do layout. So I did. Yes, I did a yearbook in high school.

[Jewel Wicker]

See, I wish I were no child.

[Sequoia Holmes]

No, I wrote for the paper in high school.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Same.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And I would have loved for. To know about Lorelei or about Rory. I didn't know nothing about Gilmore Girls, but I certainly would have identified deeply with this. And I did yearbook in middle school also for the layout stuff.

[Jewel Wicker]

And, like, fascinating.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I was editor in chief of the yearbook in middle school. Lol. Because, you know, I like to do that type of thing.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Look at his.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And I wrote all the opinion pieces in high school.

[Jewel Wicker]

We all find our way regardless.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Still yapping we do.

[Jewel Wicker]

It don't matter.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Because you know how to read now.

[Jewel Wicker]

Because I know how to read and write, regardless.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Wait, so were you taking all the posters out?

[Jewel Wicker]

Yes, I had it framed. I had a picture of little Romeo framed on my nightstand.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Little wow me out.

[Jewel Wicker]

And I'm not gonna be jumped about it. And I just want to be very clear there.

[Sequoia Holmes]

No, no, no. I'm not judging you at all. Because I had. I found. My mom moved out of her house recently, and I was going through all my old stuff, and I found an old frame picture of T.I.

[Jewel Wicker]

Baby. Because you couldn't tell me nothing about Clifford.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I saw an old frame picture.

[Jewel Wicker]

I was a little too old to have a framed photo of Clifford, but he was in my heart for sure.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. No, definitely deep.

[Jewel Wicker]

Because at that. By the time TI Was really TI I was in middle school at that point. I wasn't framed in, like, posters, but me, too.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I was in school when he was really t. Well, you know what? Because he probably was TI In Atlanta before he was TI In California. So I was in middle school. We wouldn't have been in middle school at the same time. Because you're a couple. A couple years older.

[Jewel Wicker]

Oh, just as you.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Because you were older than my oldest brother.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Because you are older than all this brother.

[Jewel Wicker]

You play too much.

[Clarissa Brooks]

What was I gonna say? I didn't know TI had all this gun charges in Cleveland until I read about it recently.

[Jewel Wicker]

You didn't know he had what?

[Clarissa Brooks]

You know, when he went to Cleveland and they found out those asside rifles, assault rifles on him.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You didn't know that? You didn't know anyway.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I did. I didn't.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm confused.

[Jewel Wicker]

I love that they missed you. I love that that missed you. Because that was just like TI Going. Them finding that and TI Going to jail. Was like, a big part of it. I was sad Clifford is going to jail.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I was. I was very deeply affected.

[Jewel Wicker]

And then, mind you, the trap music museum is literally, like, laid out like his closet with the assault rifles in it like this. Did you not know that?

[Clarissa Brooks]

No, I didn't know that, because I.

[Jewel Wicker]

Trap music museum.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I have not.

[Jewel Wicker]

And that's okay. You know what I'm saying?

[Clarissa Brooks]

Because conceptually, I don't like it.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. I don't think. Yeah, it's a concept. Yeah, it is.

[Jewel Wicker]

It is.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Assault rifles laid out. Don't sound.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Or not even that. It's really just like the. Like, be it. Be a drug dealer with us. Pretend it is.

[Jewel Wicker]

Because it's like you can step into the jail cell where Gucci mane. Like, you can see how small the jail cell is. Anyway.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Anyway, girls, right?

[Clarissa Brooks]

I was gonna say I was a little Bow Wow Stan as a true.

[Jewel Wicker]

Bow Wow because I felt he was taking shine away from Lil Romeo.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I agree. I preferred Romeo.

[Jewel Wicker]

Now, in hindsight, I was incorrect. Bow wow was talented.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Bow wow, yeah. Like, Mike is really important. But there's this lore that, like, if you like Lil Bow Wow, then you are a lesbian. And here I am.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Is that the lore? Wow.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Here I am.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I've been straight my whole life. I hate to hear that. I swore I was gay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But y' all were on the right path. Like, y', all, like, you know, it was always there for me.

[Jewel Wicker]

My mama didn't think that made fun of me and my crush on little Romeo, so.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But here we are. They're both pretty.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Wow. You know, they were. You guys, can I ask you about the characters? If one's gotta go for Rory's love interests and let's actually do the actors. Let's not even do. Let's not do them as characters. Let's do the actual actors. Chad Michael Murray, Tristan, Milo. Jess. Jared. No. Was Milo Jess? Yes, Milo was Jess. Jared Padallacki. Sequoia. I don't remember who he played.

[Clarissa Brooks]

He's in Supernatural, okay. Oh, he plays. He's dean.

[Sequoia Holmes]

He's dean. And then Matt Zakirtry.

[Clarissa Brooks]

You ain't even got to.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And he played just off of.

[Jewel Wicker]

Because he's the least fine to me.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Logan is the least fine to you? Absolutely. Okay. I mean, it's off of whatever you want, really. But, yeah, Logan gone.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, Logan's gone. For me, I don't like anything too Americana looking.

[Sequoia Holmes]

That's fair.

[Clarissa Brooks]

You know, if I'm gonna. If I'm going to Loving versus Virginia, it. You gotta look a little Ethnic. So gotta be Jess. Gotta be Jess.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Also, Chad Michael Murray was on Dawson's Creek. Or am I mixing him up with somebody?

[Jewel Wicker]

One Tree Hill. Stream it today.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Wow. One Tree Hill was really powerful. Both of those were filmed in North Carolina.

[Jewel Wicker]

One Tree Hill was definitely filmed in One.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I think Dawson's Creek was also filmed in North Carolina and Wilmington. Watch both of those. So he's fine today. He's got so many other things.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm confused because you say you don't like Americana, but you keep him. Chad Michael Murray. I don't know.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Well, I had no choice. That was a propaganda that was put on me as a child.

[Jewel Wicker]

As a child.

[Clarissa Brooks]

They were playing One Tree Hill, Dawson's.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Creek, back to back to back to back.

[Clarissa Brooks]

And they let you know. Filmed in North Carolina. I mean, I could tell you.

[Jewel Wicker]

They really did. It was like a really big. Yeah, yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Because North Carolina film. Anyway. That's not the point. But, Jessica, Chad's gone. Dean's gone. Because he's got Supernatural. They've got.

[Jewel Wicker]

You only supposed to get rid of one.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I'm getting rid of you.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Getting rid of all of them.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I'm getting rid of Logan. I don't know what he does. Also, he's got a very. Like, his mouth turns down. I don't like that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay, so Logan the hell up out of here. That's. That's kind of crazy. Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I think I'm getting rid of. I think I'm getting rid of Dean, unfortunately.

[Jewel Wicker]

That's unfortunate.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I think Dean might have to see his way out for me, personally. Now, I didn't really get to Logan season, so I can only look at these pictures I'm looking at of him to determine finest in. In movement. He could be a lot less fine. I don't know. But I can confirm Dean just didn't smack for me. And I would never get rid of Milo because the fine is one of the.

[Jewel Wicker]

Milo is Milo. And again, looks the exact same.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Gets better with age.

[Jewel Wicker]

I will say. Like I told Sequitas earlier, Dean as like watching it, I'm like, this is exactly who teenage Jewel would have had a crush on. But as they got older, the hair grew out. I'm no longer. I'm no longer. I'm not.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, yeah. And Dean also looked so baby like for so long.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah. But I think that, like, child, the heartthrob, kind of really, like, dreamy kind of thing. Like, I. But I think he grew. He grew out of it because he.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Grew up on the show.

[Jewel Wicker]

You know what I mean, at that point.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Point. Yeah. Yeah. But Jess has always been spooky.

[Jewel Wicker]

The same.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, I like it. I do like it. Who's Yalls favorite characters? Overall, if you had to pick one character that you've taken with you from Gilgamore Girls.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It'S really all the supporting characters, like Suki Suki. And her love story with her sous chef was really important. Used to see, like, a loving nerd couple. Was so nice. Sookie Lane. And I really liked the older Italian lady who runs the dance studio. Forgetting her name.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

Ms. Start with a P. I can't remember.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Ms. Patty.

[Jewel Wicker]

Ms. Patty.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Ms. Patty was nosy in people's business. Always with that other man. Oh, he's not listed on here. Jackson is annoying. I don't think Jackson is interesting. Oh, Ms. Babette.

[Jewel Wicker]

Okay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Ms. Patty and Ms. Babette. Just two old hens gossiping about the town.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Old hands.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Those are my people.

[Jewel Wicker]

I'm gonna take Luke because he is grumpy. Don't, like, fall.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

Really is just the curmudgeon of the show.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

And I, I, I respect it. Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

He really is really grumpy sometimes.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It's annoying. I be like, I don't care.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Same.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I said, it's Christmas.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Like, it's Christmas. It's Christmas.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Even when they're, like, falling in love, he's like. I guess I'm like, all right, come on.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. Y' all done did the deed.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Come on.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Tighten up, Luke.

[Clarissa Brooks]

That attitude.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. Is that okay? All right.

[Jewel Wicker]

That's who I picked. You asked me who I picked. That's what I picked, and that's why I picked him.

[Clarissa Brooks]

We don't talk about Luke at all yet, but Luke.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get into Luke and his attitude and his diner.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. I could see him being fine. My mom thought Luke was really fine.

[Jewel Wicker]

I understand it. Not for me. A little too ruggish, you know, in white. Like, white riggish. And I'm. I'm okay. Do you know what I mean?

[Sequoia Holmes]

No, I see it. Okay. I didn't see it. And then I just looked him up again. Again. Jawline is strong as hell.

[Jewel Wicker]

I understand it. It's again, like, the way that his character dressed and the way that they had him styled.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, the hat.

[Jewel Wicker]

But he's an attractive man.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, he looks good.

[Jewel Wicker]

Like, the scruffy look just isn't. I'm okay.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I. I didn't notice. I didn't realize. Luke's game. My bad.

[Jewel Wicker]

But I like Luke. I like his little diner.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

I Like, yeah, he's always. He's there, you know.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. He's always, like, really just happy to be in Lorelei. Rory's life, even if it's as a friend.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Which was so critical.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It's cute. And wait, who was the teacher that Lorelai.

[Jewel Wicker]

Waiting for a while?

[Clarissa Brooks]

She did.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Who was that? What's his name?

[Jewel Wicker]

Mr.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I don't remember his name.

[Jewel Wicker]

With an M. Mr. Something. Mr. Okay, it started with M. I don't know.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Oh, Max.

[Jewel Wicker]

Max. Max Medina.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Mr. Medina.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Mr. Medina.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But he was a teacher at Rory's.

[Sequoia Holmes]

School, and that was messing up Rory's.

[Jewel Wicker]

Exactly. I say, because Lorelai, why would you date him?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jewel Wicker]

A little silly. Why would you date that man?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

She'd be like, what is something deeply inappropriate that I could do to my kid's life? Date their teacher.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Date the teacher. That'll do it.

[Jewel Wicker]

Her mom. Because her mom was like, what the hell were you thinking? Why would you date her teacher? You knew this wasn't your soulmate. And, like, Lorelai is, like, crying, like, it's the worst thing that ever happened to her. And I'm like, in that moment, I fully believe that Lorelai is like, well, maybe he is my soulmate. Soulmate. Because it's, like, so childish. Like, so, like, I don't understand anything beyond, like, my current feeling in this moment kind of thing. And I'm like, she know that one, her soulmate. But in this moment, she's sad about it, and that's what matters.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, she is like, a. I feel strongly in this moment. Another character I forgot to mention is Michelle, who is the front desk attendant at the hotel.

[Jewel Wicker]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

The French, I think, like, the only black person on the show.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yes.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But just similar to, like, somebody. Like, on Will and Grace, they have Jack. Did y' all watch Will and Grace?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Barely a little bit.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But, like, I mean, I've heard of it.

[Jewel Wicker]

I don't know what.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Will and Grace is very funny.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Hilarious.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Definitely a good one.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But the character on there named Jack, who's kind of like secondary comedic timing, is perfect. No, Jack is not black.

[Jewel Wicker]

Okay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

He's just, like, white.

[Jewel Wicker]

And, like, very similar in the comedic timing.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, similar in, like, tone and timing. Effeminate in a certain kind of way that, like, throws other people off, which I really enjoy.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. Okay. Yeah, everybody's comedic timing on Gilmore Girls was really good. It felt like the cast had a really good rapport. Felt like they had known each other for a long time. Even from the very first episode, I was. That was A great pilot. Pilots are never good. And that was a fantastic pilot. The world building. I immediately fell into fall. And I will be. Don't roll your eyes, Jewel.

[Jewel Wicker]

Look over to the left.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Don't look over there. Again. It's that pan.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It's the way they pan into every, like, the first scene of the show. Like, down the street, you're automatically like, okay, this is a fully built thing.

[Jewel Wicker]

Like, you get. Yeah. Like, Stars Hollow feels as silly as the name is. Like, Stars Hollow feels like a real place.

[Sequoia Holmes]

It feels like Halloween town.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It is. Yeah, basically.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And I love Halloween.

[Jewel Wicker]

I do too. That's the one thing I will let pass. I love Halloween.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You love Halloween Town? Who are you? I don't know. Oh, my God.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Should we watch it?

[Jewel Wicker]

I would not be opposed.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Okay. But Hocus Pocus is right there, and.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I will watch that too. I don't. I don't Hocus Pocus as hard as a Halloween Town. I will say.

[Jewel Wicker]

I will say I will be picking Halloween Town if I really.

[Sequoia Holmes]

If I have to between the two and. And in fact, I'mma pick Halloween Town. One, two, three, or four.

[Jewel Wicker]

I love Marnie.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I don't think Halloween Town is actually, like, scary in any real way. I'm like, Hocus Pocus has some moments where it's, like, actually scary is.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Hocus Pocus does have a couple moments, like.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah, it does. It does. Singing I feel like Halloween Town.

[Sequoia Holmes]

No, no, no. Halloween Town's not scary ever at any point, which I love it. I don't like scary whatsoever.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But I like. I like home school because it is a little bit. And then I watch Practical Magic.

[Jewel Wicker]

I don't want to be scared.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I've never seen Practical Magic. But someone just said that we need to do a watch party. They were like, you would love this movie. You need to see it.

[Jewel Wicker]

This is a. Was it Disney movie?

[Sequoia Holmes]

I don't know.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Is it Bullock in it?

[Sequoia Holmes]

It.

[Clarissa Brooks]

It's like, yeah, Sandra Bullock's in it. What's that redhead lady name? Not Reese, Will.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Lindsay Lohan.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I can't think of it. But Sandra Bullock is in it, so, you know, it's good. She's falling in love with a man. There's a curse on the whole family.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Okay. No, I'm in on that. But, yeah, this. This very much put me in the. In the. The town of Stars Hollow. Put me in the feeling of Halloween Town. Last thoughts? Unless you'll have some other thoughts, of course. Why do y' all think this is such an iconic fall moment for black People specifically, we, you know, black fall don't look like Stars Hollow. It's not a bunch of white people running around, you know, talking fast to each other.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I think the wit. I think black folks, the way that we, like, move with male with wit and the way that we speak to each other can be quick, especially, like, when it's familiar. It can be really quick and fast and snippy. And the people in Stars Hollow feel very familial and quick with each other in a way that felt really familiar to me. I was like, this sounds like my cookout, just with less screaming. So I think that at least what brought me into it, I know that, like, single mom and her kid trying to make it story really resonated with my family. And yeah, just like, I think an imperfect white family, we weren't getting very often during that time.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yes.

[Clarissa Brooks]

And so to get that was like, new and refreshing to be like, this isn't cookie cutter. Things aren't perfect. And there's, like, real issues. Like, there is an absentee father. There's a genuine beef with the mom and the grandmother. That's, like, what our families feel like. Especially like an absentee white dad.

[Jewel Wicker]

You said more.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I said, that sound like my daddy.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Was, like, happily absentee. It was actually kind of crazy how happily absentee. That.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, he was really like, I guess I'll come through. But if you want to kiss a little bit.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Hey, hey, whatever you want to do.

[Jewel Wicker]

What I will say, let me know. 2. That was, like, really nice because I feel like I've always. And I still hear people when they talk about single moms, they make it seem like such a burden and such a chore. And, like, single moms are having the worst times of their lives. And, like, so unfortunate. And I experienced a mother more like Lorelei, who was like, I'm so happy to be here. I can't believe I get to be your mom. I'm having a great time. And, like, some of it, I'm like, I'm sure you had hard times. I'm sure you did. Like, you were a single mom. You didn't have help. I imagine that some of that was difficult, but, like, the genuine joy of I get. We get to, like, like, hang out and, you know what I mean? Spend time. And I'm really having a good time. And I like, I love that I get to be a mom. And your mom, like, that dynamic was really, like, you don't see that about single moms in, like, pop culture a lot. And that's how I experienced my single mom, and so it was always jarring when I heard other people talking about, like, in other ways. So it's nice to see it on, like, television.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. Yeah. That's how my mom was, too. And also that, like, her life was full of other things.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Things.

[Jewel Wicker]

Yeah. I have other things. Yeah.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Friends, a business to run, men to fall in love with. Like, it was good to see. Right. A single mother who had a full life. And. Yeah, we just. I think that's why folks, black folks, gravitated to it.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Right. Truly. Last thought I have is about the theme song.

[Clarissa Brooks]

The fashion theme song also on Gilmore Girls is really good.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Is it?

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I haven't really paid too much. Maybe season one, the fashion wasn't great yet.

[Jewel Wicker]

I do, like. No, I actually really like the fashion in season one.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Oh, yeah. As it develops, a lot of the fandoms will be like, this bag was this. But, like, the fan pages have gotten more into, like, the styling of the show. And it was pretty. Pretty.

[Jewel Wicker]

I like it. I do. I really like it. And it's interesting because a lot of the, like, fall vlogs that I've been watching recently.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yes.

[Jewel Wicker]

When they do their, like, this is my fashion mood board or whatever, Pinterest board or whatever, a lot of it is, like, that's either they might reference Gilmore Girls specifically, or sometimes it's like, basically the same. Like, you look and you're like, this is exactly what Lorelai would have been wearing. Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

They don't even know that they're referencing Gilmore Girls. That's how deeply entrenched it's been in our culture since it came out in 2000.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Fashion wise, the theme song is really good. It's, like, kind of effortless. I can't remember if. Is it for the. Did they make it for the show or was it just a song that.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I'm not sure.

[Jewel Wicker]

I don't know. I do know that I enjoyed the soundtrack in a way. Like, it reminded me of just, like, that easy, breezy, like, pop music that I used to enjoy in, like, the early 2000s, until some of those songs would come up throughout the, like, first season when I was re watching. And it was just really, like, nostalgic to me.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You know what? It looks like it was already a song by Carole King. I will follow. Oh, Carol King.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah, they ate with that. That's not a cheap song. Carol King.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Yeah, I was gonna say. And they kept it on to that one.

[Clarissa Brooks]

The last thing I was going to say is the reboot is not terrible.

[Jewel Wicker]

A Reboot?

[Clarissa Brooks]

Yeah. Favorite reboot that's on Netflix. It's okay.

[Jewel Wicker]

Is it currently, like, it's. They're currently filming and, like, releasing?

[Clarissa Brooks]

No, it's done. The reboot's already done. It's on Netflix. I think it's, like, two seasons, and, like, I think there's, like, a. There's, like, a last episode that's kind of a movie, but it does get a little weird. Are y' all gonna watch it? Can I spoil it? Do y' all care?

[Jewel Wicker]

I do not care. It existed until 5. I mean, maybe I knew about it.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Also, don't give a rat's ass about a spoiler.

[Jewel Wicker]

I like spoilers. I know it's gonna happen before I watch it.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I like it too, but I'm in.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Enemy territory amongst you both.

[Clarissa Brooks]

You don't want me spoiling.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I. Let me disclaimer. If you don't want to hear this, tune out now. We pretty much at the end of the episode, but go ahead.

[Clarissa Brooks]

The weird thing that happens is that the last episode of the reboot is a musical.

[Jewel Wicker]

Nothing?

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh, no, I'm in.

[Clarissa Brooks]

But it's her and Logan. It's Warrior. She ends up with Logan.

[Jewel Wicker]

I don't remember him from my. Like, I haven't gotten to there in the re. Watch. I don't remember him in the early. Like, my memory don't remember him. Yeah, but he don't look interesting to me, so I don't want to see him sing.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Exactly. That's.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Why do they sing? Is Rory singing? Alexis Bledell singing? Yeah, Logan.

[Jewel Wicker]

Can she sing it?

[Clarissa Brooks]

I, I. I'm just wondering. I think they made a. But they're just like. It's like him and his friends, and they're doing this, like, musical about how they fall in love, and I think they get engaged. It's just kind of coring. I was just kind of like, I don't really know if I needed this, but it was just weird. And it's also not. Not what I. Who I wanted her to end up with. Yeah, but they try to make. I think in the reboot, they try to complicate Rory's life life, to give her some more depth. And it just kind of gives just more. She's like a privileged New York Times editor. By the end of it, I'm like, you're my enemy. Also.

[Jewel Wicker]

I already got to deal with it in my real professional life. Do not want to see it on television. Sorry.

[Clarissa Brooks]

At that point, I was like, it actually is too close to home because. What do you mean you're a New York Times editor ignoring my pitch.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Oh, no.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Get off my screen with this musical.

[Sequoia Holmes]

But yeah, anyways, let me go ahead and get back to my initial watch of Gilmore Girls. I'm binging it as we speak. I'll be watching this for the rest of the fall. In the meantime, Clarissa, thank you so much for joining. Can you please tell the folks where they can find you?

[Clarissa Brooks]

You can find me on Instagram @ClarisSainBrooks and on X at the same.

[Sequoia Holmes]

And Jewel or Clarissa, you know, any projects you want to bring up, if any. Anything you want to plug for the kids. Kids. Okay.

[Clarissa Brooks]

I got nothing else. We trying to get through. We was trying to get through.

[Sequoia Holmes]

All right, all right, that's it for our show today. If you want to check on us on YouTube, you can obviously watch this full episode. You can see what we look like. You can comment that Jewel does in fact sound like.

[Jewel Wicker]

Don't piss me off. You're close.

[Clarissa Brooks]

What you sound like.

[Jewel Wicker]

I know who she Jam.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Jamila.

[Jewel Wicker]

Jamila Bell.

[Sequoia Holmes]

The Jamila Bell on Tick Tock.

[Jewel Wicker]

I don't sound like that lady.

[Sequoia Holmes]

She. You. You can comment again.

[Jewel Wicker]

I follow her. I like Jamila. I don't sound like her.

[Sequoia Holmes]

You can comment again. That Jewel does in fact sound like Jamila on Tick Tock. Maybe I shouldn't get in the same room. Have you ever seen.

[Jewel Wicker]

Listen to her eyes closed and she heard us sound alike.

[Sequoia Holmes]

I was washing my face listening to one of the cuts that was gonna go up on Social and it was Jewel talking. And I said, did I accidentally get on you on.

[Jewel Wicker]

On Tik Tok and see, what I'm saying is that this is. This is. This is offensive to me. This is just another black lady in Atlanta and you're trying to say that I sound like her.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Y kind of look like two. Hey, hey, hey.

[Clarissa Brooks]

Maybe let's just.

[Sequoia Holmes]

Now we really into it. Anyways, that's it. You can email us per usual at black people love heremoregmail.com. you can find us across all social media platforms at BPL pod and come back in two weeks per usual every other week. That's when we release. Okay, talk to y' all later. Bye, Sam.