Lizzie McGuire

Summary

Black People Love Paramore

Episode: Lizzie McGuire

Hosts: Sequoia Holmes & Jewel Wicker
Aired: February 19, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Sequoia and Jewel dive deep into the cultural and nostalgic significance of the Disney Channel classic Lizzie McGuire, examining its legacy, distinctly 2000s aesthetics, characters, and, most importantly, what it meant for Black and POC viewers growing up. With their signature humor, they unpack why this seemingly “universal” show resonated, the overlooked role of side Black characters, and how Hilary Duff’s “comeback” makes them reflect on their own childhood and cultural milestones.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Lizzie McGuire, and Why Now?

• Lizzie McGuire turned 25 in 2026 (premiered January 12, 2001). Despite running only two seasons, it was formative for both hosts.

• Hilary Duff’s (Lizzie) resurgence is marked by a new world tour, stirring nostalgia and online discussions.

  "She’s officially going on a world tour. She started off like a mini tour… and at the last show, she announced: World tour!"
  — Sequoia (01:56)

2. The Show’s Format and Impact

• Lizzie McGuire is described as a coming-of-age comedy for 13-year-olds, featuring episodes tackling puberty, body image, and relatable adolescent issues.

• The show’s 34+ episode seasons made it feel more expansive, lingering through the hosts’ seminal years.

  "Lizzie McGuire is a television series on Disney Channel about a 13-year-old girl… going through the trials and tribulations of becoming teenagers together."
  — Sequoia (04:15)

• The hosts contend Lizzie McGuire appealed to all genders. Sequoia’s male housemates were “locked the fuck in” when they screened the show for research (05:21).

  “Garrick made a good point and said it is pretty much the Disney equivalent of Malcolm in the Middle, which is very boy.”
  — Sequoia (05:43)

3. Signature 2000s Aesthetic

• Fashion: From hair with “little braids” and “poofy balls,” wooden clogs, to cheetah print and 70s-inspired fits, the show’s look is celebrated and ripe for a comeback.

  “The little braids, the little poofy balls that you would have in the hair… it was really cute. I’m like, we actually need to bring that back.”
  — Sequoia (06:18)

• The hosts reminisce about the style being “deeply 2000s” and universally adored, especially Miranda’s fashion and attitude.

  “Maybe… I don’t know if it was because girl of color in the show. Yes, that was for me.”
  — Jewel (07:07)

4. The Miranda Controversy & Representation

• Miranda (Lalaine) was a crucial “girl of color” and iconic to many nonwhite girls. But her abrupt disappearance in later episodes and the movie sparked online rumor.

• Sequoia discusses the rumored feud involving Hilary Duff’s mom pushing Lalaine out due to competition over music careers.

  “She felt like Lalaine was really talented, kind of a scene-stealer… [so she] pushed to have Lalaine removed.”
  — Sequoia (09:50)

• Lalaine's Filipino heritage is contrasted with her character's written Mexican identity:

  "She looks Filipina to me." [22:22]
  "They made her Mexican." [22:38]

5. Problematic Representation of Black Characters

• The black characters, Claire (Kate’s sidekick) and Lainey (Matt’s friend), are critiqued.

  • Claire was deeply “sidekick-coded;” Lainey never spoke, possibly due to SAG-AFTRA pay rules.

  “The way that Lizzie McGuire handled the Black characters… pissed me off.”
  — Sequoia (23:46)

  “At some point… I stopped seeing Lainey, but I did start seeing a monkey… The monkey also couldn’t speak… something about that ain’t sit right.”
  — Sequoia (24:53)

6. Favorite Episodes and Memorable Moments

• The “Miranda eating disorder episode,” notable for its PLAY “Us Against the World” dance sequence. The streamer's modern rights issues led Sequoia to literally re-sync the song herself.

  “My dopamine receptors lit the fuck up at the end of the episode… I needed that in my soul.”
  — Sequoia (27:20, 30:13)

• The “Kate stuffs her bra” rumor/pilot episode and era-specific joke—“loser, loser, double loser, get the picture, whatever!”—evoke both nostalgia and the cringey nature of 2000s kids’ insults.

7. Spaces for Teens & the 2000s Hangout Fantasy

• The hosts reflect on how shows like Lizzie McGuire made hangout spaces (coffee shops, smoothie bars) look fun—lamenting that real life offered only skating rinks or nowhere to go.

  “There was always, like, a hangout spot… I came up with a business plan for why we needed to have one for my neighborhood.”
  — Jewel (30:22)

  “It’s the Digital Bean.”
  — Sequoia (33:56)

8. Missed Reboot and Where Are They Now? Theories

• The failed Lizzie McGuire reboot: two episodes were reportedly shot, but never released.

• The hosts speculate humorously on the today’s fates of the Lizzie McGuire cast:

  • Lizzie: Moved back home with kids after financial setbacks.
  • Matt: “Steve Jobs-coded,” successful but low-key coder.
  • Miranda: Split—possible celebrity hairstylist or high-powered attorney.
  • Gordo: A24-type indie film director.
  • Kate: Two options—Sequoia says “teen mom, bartender with a man who won’t commit;” Jewel imagines an “average, vanilla marketing job, unhappy but settled.”
  • Ethan: Male model, not much else going on mentally.

  “If you think Kate is a bartender, drop a martini glass in the comments. If you think she works in marketing… drop a laptop.”
  — Sequoia (44:04)

9. Yearbook Memories & Childhood Crushes

• Both hosts share yearbook and T-shirt signing stories, re-reading old notes.

• Jewel recounts her elaborate plan to marry her high school basketball crush (believing he’d go to the NBA and she’d cover it as a celeb news anchor).

  “I thought he was going to the league. … My crush planning was not the strongest."
  — Jewel (48:48, 49:36)

10. Hilary Duff Movie Rapid Rankings

• Jewel ranks Hilary Duff movies on the spot:

  1. Cinderella Story
  2. Cheaper By the Dozen
  3. Cadet Kelly
  4. Lizzie McGuire Movie
  5. Raise Your Voice

• Sequoia's top pick is Lizzie McGuire Movie, and both find the title "Raise Your Voice" unintentionally comical and misleading.

  "Something about the name 'Cheaper by the Dozen'… it sounds like chicken and eggs.”
  — Sequoia (55:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On show lifespan:
  “It only lasted two seasons. I definitely thought—so crazy to me… because to me, Lizzie McGuire went through the seminal years of my childhood.”
  — Jewel (03:19)

• On representation:
  “Maybe… I don’t know if it was because girl of color in the show. Yes, that was for me.”
  — Jewel (07:07)

• On rewatching as adults:
  “We all concluded that [Lizzie McGuire] held up much better than we thought it would as adults.”
  — Sequoia (05:43)

• On the treatment of Black side characters & SAG reasons:
  “Lainey does not speak in the show… if a character spoke five lines or more, you had to pay more… Why can everybody else get paid, but Lainey can’t get paid?”
  — Sequoia (24:10)

• On 2000s digital culture:
  “She did have a colored Mac! I remember watching Lizzie and being like, I want one of them… so bad.”
  — Jewel & Sequoia (33:32–33:44)

• On failing to clear music rights:
  “Come to find out Disney Plus did not get the licensing for Play’s ‘Us Against the World’—so I got some random ass music… pissed me off.”
  — Sequoia (27:30)

• On 'where are they now' for the cast:
  “He only wears black t-shirts. He codes. You can’t really tell if he’s clean or dirty half the time… but he has a lot of money. But you would never know looking at him, because he looks homely.”
  — Sequoia, on Matt (40:24)

• On reluctance to attend Hilary Duff or JLo concerts:
  “If I don’t have to be out super late, if it’s in my budget… and my social battery is not drained, I’ll be there.”
  — Jewel (53:37)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening/Themes of the Show – 00:19–05:19
• Lizzie’s Resurgence & Cultural Impact – 01:55–03:50
• What is Lizzie McGuire About? – 04:05–05:19
• Male Appeal & Show Holding Up – 05:19–06:10
• Fashion & Aesthetic Deep-Dive – 06:10–07:14
• Miranda’s Legacy and Real Life Background – 07:14–09:50, 22:20–22:32
• Miranda Drama Rumors – 09:50–10:13
• Characters - Black Representation – 23:14–25:49
• Favorite Episodes/Crucial Music Licensing Issues – 27:18–30:13
• 2000s Teen Hangouts vs. Real Life – 30:22–33:56
• Unreleased Reboot, Fan Theories on Where They Are Now – 34:19–45:59
• Yearbooks and Teenage Nostalgia – 45:59–49:58
• Rapid Ranking: Hilary Duff Movies – 50:00–56:51

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Final Thoughts

Sequoia and Jewel deliver a sharp, affectionate, and critical look at Lizzie McGuire—embracing its nostalgia while interrogating what representation in early-2000s Disney often left unspoken. Their banter and warmth make this a vibrant generational and cultural time capsule, perfect for listeners reflecting on what “feeling seen” looked like as a Black kid in the 2000s.

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Find the podcast:
@BPLPEPod on socials | Spotify | Apple Podcasts | [e-mail]

“If you have thoughts, have vibes, want to talk to us at all, you can find us…”
— Sequoia (56:51)

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Black People Love Paramore, a pop culture podcast. Not about the band Paramore, but about the common as well as the uncommon interests of. Of black people in order to help us feel a little bit more seen. And you can think of seeing as like seen if you're watching the video or seen.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

There's a difference. If you can see me, you know what I'm talking about. I am Sequoia Holmes.

[B]

I'm Jewel Wicker.

[A]

And before we get into the episode, per usual, first of all, go ahead and give us that rating, the five stars only because we are five star bitches worthy El Gotti, period. Also, I love when y' all talk to us on Spotify comments. I love when y' all comment on YouTube. We be having a good time in the comment section. Lately, y' all have been cracking me up. It's been very fun. Draw some comments if you have some thoughts. If you're listening and you're like, oh, let me respond to these bitches because they don't know what they talking about or. That was really funny. Because, you know, I. I do, I do get that a lot.

[B]

You get that you're funny a lot.

[A]

Why you said like that?

[B]

I was just asking because I hadn't seen. I had. It's been about a week or so since I looked at the comments, so I didn't know if they had just been saying it in flux recently. Okay, go ahead.

[A]

Yeah, I can't really point to one, but I do think that I. I do.

[B]

You know that it's undertone.

[A]

You know what I mean? When I read between the lines, the undertone that I receive is very much that I believe it. So you know what we're talking about today? We're talking about Lizzie McGuire. One Ms. Hilary Duff have been having a resurgence. She's been all over my timeline these days. She's officially going on a world tour. So she started off like a mini tour.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Started off with like a mini tour. And at the. I think the last show of the mini tour, she announced. World tour.

[B]

A world tour.

[A]

A world tour. So I'm assuming it's because they needed to see. How does this, how does this mini tour go?

[B]

And it's gone well.

[A]

And it went well enough for them to give her a world tour. So congratulations to Hillary.

[B]

I ain't no hater, so who am I to ask questions now?

[A]

Somebody did message me. One of my friends messaged me and was like, hey, are you planning to go to Hillary Duff's concert? And, and I thought about it and I said, you know what? I am the type of bitch that would go. But had I considered going, it had not even crossed my mind.

[B]

Depending on how much tickets cost, the way Ticketmaster is set up, the way you got to fight for your rights.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Your life.

[A]

And I'm not really going to fight for rights to Hillary Duff, especially because the girlies have told me they cuss me out when I put my ranking of Hillary Duff fans on the Internet.

[B]

And the thing is, for certain shows, I got 50 to $75 max. And I understand that we're not in that type of market or economy. I got 50 to $75 if that came, you know what I mean? And I mean with the fees, you.

[A]

Know what I mean? Me personally, but nevertheless, I love Hillary, I love Hilary.

[B]

Duh. Damn.

[A]

I actually really enjoy Lizzie McGuire. And prepping for this episode, I went back and listened to some Lizzie McGuire episodes. And for reference, we're doing Lizzie McGuire because this year the series turned 25 years later.

[B]

That's so crazy.

[A]

Isn't that so crazy? I'm like, oh my go God. It premiered January 12, 2001. So just last month it crossed over into 25. It only lasted two seasons. I definitely thought so crazy to me.

[B]

Because to me, Lizzie McGuire went through the seminal years of my childhood. So what do you mean?

[A]

And it did go through the seminal years of our childhood, to be fair. 2001, 2004. The, the, the last season ended in 2004, but the movie came out in 2003. So it was like, and to be.

[B]

Fair, the seasons were like 30 something episodes or something.

[A]

34.

[B]

So they really, we stretched, they were stret. Stretched it.

[A]

So yeah. So something that I like to do now on this podcast, when talking about film or television, I like to try to give y' all my own description of what the piece of media is about. So here's my description of what Lizzie McGuire is about off the top of my head. I ain't prepared nothing. I wrote nothing down off the top of my head. Lizzie McGuire is a television series on Disney Channel about a 13 year old girl. She's coming of age aged, she's in middle school, she has two best friends, Miranda and Gordo, and they're going through the trials and tribulations of becoming teenagers together. A lot of Lizzie McGuire episodes are like a sensitive topic based kind of. So sometimes, you know what I mean, like they have the mom I want a bra episode. They have the episode where Miranda is Fighting her body image issues. They have the episode where Gordo gets a credit card sent to him and like goes crazy with that credit card. They sometimes be touching on stuff that a 13 year old might experience. And another thing I would like to Note about Lisa McGuire, it seemed good for boys and girls. That's my. That's what I think. Lizzie McGuire.

[B]

Have you talked to a boy about this now?

[A]

Okay, I will bet. I say this is battle tested because last night, in preparation for this episode, I had my entire household, which is right now Garrick and Garrick's cousin, also male. Okay, sit with me and watch Lizzie McGuire. When I tell you they were locked the fuck in. And they were locked in. And they said Garrick didn't watch Liz McGuire as a kid, so he didn't really have a reference.

[B]

Oh, he didn't have a frame of reference.

[A]

His cousin did. Garrick made a good point and said it is pretty much the Disney equivalent of Malcolm in the Middle, which is very boy. And he was like, yeah, no, like this feels like Malcolm in the Middle. And we all concluded that it was much better. It held up much better than we thought it would be as adults.

[B]

It does. It's a good show. It is very 2000s. Like, it's deeply 2000s.

[A]

It really is so 2000s.

[B]

But it's a good show and it.

[A]

Does hold up the fashion. Oh, my God, I was livid. The hair, the hair.

[B]

The hair with the little braid.

[A]

The little braids, the little poofy balls that you would have in the hair.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

The color, the little. The little spiky. It was really cute. I'm like, we actually need to bring that back.

[B]

It's crazy because I'm like, they started out the gate with cute, like, hair and stuff like that because I watched like the pilot in the first few episodes of season one, like last week, and I was like, this is so cute.

[A]

So cute. It is so cute. They had these really cute clogs in one of the episodes I was watching. Yes. It was like close toed, thick soled, wooden. You remember the wooden, like heels.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they were so cute. Miranda had on cheetah print. Lizzie had on, like this orange swirl type combination. Very 70s coated when you think about it.

[B]

Yeah. Like, wow. I liked. I liked Miranda so much. Miranda. And maybe. I don't know if it was because girl of color in the show. Yes, that was for me.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

That was for me. But I loved Miranda down from the fashion to the hair color to the style, to Just her, like, attitude and how she was like. And I know you're not going to think you can run me.

[A]

You're not going to run me.

[B]

Loyal friend, though. Loyal friend.

[A]

Loyal friend down. Yeah, it very much reminds me of asshole by Ginger. Only Lizzie has better friends than Ginger had.

[B]

Because why? Y' all need to leave Dodie alone.

[A]

Dodie was ass. That's why.

[B]

And Macy. And Macy.

[A]

And Macy was. You know, Macy was fine. She was a little girl.

[B]

She was fine.

[A]

Right. But I really did love Miranda. Now, there was some. There was some tension between Hilary Duff's mom, allegedly, and the actor that played Miranda Lalaine.

[B]

Over what?

[A]

Rumor has it you know how lalaine was not in the movie.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

She also was not in, like, the last few episodes of season two either. As I went back and I was watching, like, important episodes, I googled a list of, like, important Lisa McGuire episodes, the last few episodes. Maybe, like, the second half even of season two. Lalaine is away on family vacation in Mexico. Is the way that they float that. And I'm like, interesting. So I remember hearing a couple months ago that this is all alleged. Hillary Duff's mom, deeply momager, apparently, like momager numero uno, was Hillary Duff's mom. She felt threatened by lalanne and her budding music career because Hillary Duff was also pursuing a music career at this time. She felt like Lane was really talented, kind of a scene stealer in Lizzie McGuire. And then on top of that, dropped the song I'm not your girl. I'm not your girl is a banger, I'll tell you that right now. It's the original. I'm not male centered. I don't give a about none of that.

[B]

But it's good.

[A]

It's like a pop.

[B]

It's like a pop rock type that sounds stressful.

[A]

It is good. It's the only song she ever dropped, if I'm not mistaken. I think she did little stuff for Disney, like renditions of original Disney music, but like, an original song. Lane had that Lizzie McGuire's mom, Hillary.

[B]

Now, was it popping? Was it like, y' all ain't really hearing this? It's good. But it didn't really get it.

[A]

No, that popped. No, that popped. Yeah. I'm not your girl popped. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Allegedly, Hillary D's mom did not like that level of competition, and she pushed to have Lane removed from Lizzie McGuire, and Lalanne was subsequently removed from Lizzie McGuire. So that's why her presence. Allegedly, again, I don't know, but allegedly, that's why her presence Was not there for the movie and for, like, the second half of season two.

[B]

Interesting. I don't know nothing about that. You know, I really was never in that type of drama.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

I just had to catch up on the mom group. And I mean, I did it specifically for today because I do not give a damn. So, you know, you didn't care about that. That was not one bit.

[A]

I was gripped.

[B]

I gotta be honest. When I saw it going down, like, and I saw everybody talking about it, I said, there's not one part of me that feels compelled to even click. Not even click the link. I don't even want to scroll to Instagram carousel to learn what's going on. I don't care.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I felt that I was tempted about Victoria Beckham in the dance.

[A]

You was more tempted by, I don't.

[B]

Want to see if there was a video of her cutting up at them people.

[A]

I did want to see that video.

[B]

And then once I realized there was no video, I stopped caring about that too.

[A]

Too, y'. All. For context, just quick aside. Victoria Beckham son, not Nicola.

[B]

Brooklyn.

[A]

Brooklyn Beckham? Yes. Brooklyn Beckham got married to a woman named Nicola. Nicola. And the Beckham family, not seeing eye to eye, not getting along. Subsequently, Brooklyn is not getting along with the rest of the Beckham family anymore either. Allegedly, at the two of their wedding, Victoria Beckham was, quote, unquote, according to Brooklyn, dancing really inappropriately.

[B]

And I want him to know what.

[A]

That meant, and it made him uncomfortable. All of us want to say, what's. Where's the video? Because what do you mean your mom was dancing with you inappropriately? Can you get more detail? Show us something like, what do you mean by that?

[B]

Show me more.

[A]

So anyways, neither here nor there. I was deeply invested in mom and the mom drama between Hilary Duff, Ashley Tisdale, and other famous celebrity moms.

[B]

Anyways, okay, so, yeah, no, I didn't know about. I assume we'll get to the mom, but I don't know. I didn't know nothing about Lane. I didn't know. Obviously. I didn't know. She was kind of not in the movie. I knew that part, but why? It's interesting. Yeah. I just liked her. I thought she was so.

[A]

She was great. The episode that I was watching is the episode where Lizzie and Miranda accidentally send a private instant message about Kate to the entire school. So they send. They send out a rumor that Kate stuffs her bra. I think this is the pilot she sends out. They send out a rumor by accident that Kate stuffs Her bra. Lizzie meant to send it to Miranda. Whole school gets a hold of it. Kate thinks that Miranda is the person that started the rumor. And Miranda's like, I don't give a. I could take the heat. Lizzie's like, I'm so scared of Kate. I'm so scared. Miranda's like, yeah, and what about it? Then Kate and Miranda start going back and forth at it. Miranda dyes Kate's hair green. It's just, like, a lot.

[B]

It's. But the thing that got me. And that's why I said, this is the 2000s. Not even the 99s in the 2000s. Just the 2000s. Thank you. G L Y. You ain't got no alibi. Ugly loser. Loser. Big loser.

[A]

Loser. Lizzy. Big loser.

[B]

I forgot what time. Okay. Did you know, I don't remember what episode this would have been in, but I did this to my. I lived with my older cousin. He was six years older than me. He thought I was so annoying. And I used to do it. Loser, loser. Double loser. Did you used to do that?

[A]

Get the picture? Whatever. Yes, I did. Yeah.

[B]

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very 2000, 2000s and Lizzie McGuire.

[A]

Big shout out to the 2000s. Big shout out to Kate, who is now a lawyer.

[B]

What kind of law she practices?

[A]

I don't know. But, yeah, she hung up. She hung up the acting. Yeah, it's time to practice law, Mama.

[B]

I would do the same thing.

[A]

Similarly, lalanne hung up the acting, too. Said, yeah, it's time to be a marketing director. Mama, I need a job. I need. I need cash. And I get it. As someone without one, I do understand also.

[B]

Just as somebody, this is me. This is me. Fame scares me. It don't seem fun. It don't sound like nothing. I want to be a part of or partake in. Dibble, dabble. Saw what was over there. I'm going back to living my private, normal life. Thank you.

[A]

Lalaine had a run in with. I know she did the law as well. So fame was getting to her a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think she said, it's time to exit.

[B]

Well, nobody know it. I don't want. If I'm having drama in the mom group, I don't want nobody. It don't. It don't need to be nobody business.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't want it to make the cut. You know what I'm trying to say?

[A]

Ashley Tisdale.

[B]

Same.

[A]

And put it.

[B]

Pitched it to the cut. What I was about to say, well, that's on Ashes there, because, you know, it didn't make the cut. You put it in the cut. So that's kind of different.

[A]

But photo shoot for it at all.

[B]

No, she didn't. Yes, she did.

[A]

Yes, she did. You.

[B]

You have to stop it.

[A]

Yeah, no, said Ashley and not you trying to throw stones and hide your hands. Act like throw. It's not that mom group. It's a different mom group. Girl, how many mom groups stop playing.

[B]

A photo shoot is nut.

[A]

See, look. Now you interested. Look, it does gets ridiculous.

[B]

That just gets.

[A]

It gets to a point. It gets to a point.

[B]

That's why also be wondering. Niggas don't have the type of significant other that I have. Because the minute I'm like, I'm typing, he would be like, close the laptop.

[A]

I promise. Close the laptop.

[B]

You sound ridiculous.

[A]

You.

[B]

You're wrong.

[A]

Hey, ridiculous.

[B]

I want you to think. Think about this.

[A]

Did Ashley Tisdale think that she was going to win something against Lizzie McGuire? Against Hilary Duff? In the eyes of the public, she wasn't. It was never going to give that Ms. Mamas. We stand with. We stand with Lizzy. We do. Me, I'll speak for myself. Hey, I stand with Lizzy. I'm not standing with Sharpay.

[B]

Out with the old, in with the new. I. I would have to stay by. Oh, now. Goodbye, skies of gray hello, clouds of blue. Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

You're dipping in the pool and taking a trip to the spa.

[B]

Endless days in my shades. The whole world according to moi.

[A]

Okay, but when you. But you're not coming clean. You're not letting the rain fall down.

[B]

And I don't want to compare because that's gonna get a little spooky.

[A]

Let it wash away yours.

[B]

I'm more of a yesterday kind of girl, personally.

[A]

Okay. So when it's over, let it go.

[B]

And when the light is often it isn't on. We'll win every time. At least you. If we. You know how they'd be on the street and they'd be this or that. Yeah, I'm picking that every time. Yeah, every time.

[A]

If the light is off, then it isn't on.

[B]

Because. What does that mean? But also, it means everything.

[A]

You know what it means, right? She said. Yeah. No, in fact. Matter of fact. So yesterday. It's like the antithesis of Kalani's folded. Yeah, Think about that. Think about that.

[B]

The video and everything.

[A]

I'm talking about everything and everything Hillary said. I'm not. I'm not doubling back on you. Yeah, sorry.

[B]

You know, I love folded as a concept. As a.

[A]

It is a good concept. It's a good song.

[B]

In actuality, I'm not folding a God damn. Don't come over here. Do not ring my. Do not.

[A]

It'll be on the front lawn. Unfolded.

[B]

Mailbox is the closest you should come to my home. I'm not folding it. I didn't wash it. No, this is not a moment for reconciliation, so you better be glad I didn't cut it up because I, I love to throw it away.

[A]

Call me Lisa Left Eye Lopez, baby. So I, I set this whole on fire, matter of fact.

[B]

Anyway, that's all she was trying to do. Lisa was just trying to burn the shoes.

[A]

She wasn't trying to burn the house.

[B]

She wasn't trying to burn that house down. She was trying to burn the shoes. And it just got out of hand.

[A]

And she said, well, this is fine. That's what she said.

[B]

I just got to get out the house. I can't do it. What can I do? You know, I'm trying to say, what can I do?

[A]

I just got to get out the house. Hi, I am Jordan Crucciola, and I host Feeling Seen. I'm here with Maximum Fun member of the month, Khalil Goodman.

[B]

Hi, Khalil.

[A]

Hi, Jordan. Thank you for having me. So great to see you. I gotta know what's made you feel seen. If you.

[B]

I figure you've thought about this if.

[A]

You'Ve listened to the show a bunch. I read X Men when I was 6. When you're a kid who makes art, which I am, and you're a queer kid, like, there's this feeling of, like something is different but you don't know what it is. Yeah, you can be different, but it can be a superpower. What would you say to others who might be considering supporting the show? What would be your sales pitch to them? If you love this thing, if you are getting all of this joy and comfort from this thing, make sure that this thing that you like will continue. Thank you so much, Khalil, for taking the time to talk to me today and for listening to the show. My God, it means a lot to just know people are really listening and.

[B]

Valuing what they're hearing.

[A]

Thank you so much. Become a Maximum Fun member [e-mail] join if you want to know what's going on in the world of movies, you should be listening to Maximum Film so we can tell you all about it. Okay, but what if you already know what's going on in the world of movies? What if you're kind of obsessed with movies? Like, maybe you have A problem. Well, then you should definitely be listening to Maximum Film because we too have that problem.

[B]

And it's important you know you're not alone.

[A]

We're talking indies. You'll want to seek out blockbusters and blockbusting wannabes, classics we can't get enough of. I'm comedian and writer Kevin Avery. I'm film critic Alonzo Daldi. I'm festival programmer and producer Drea Clark.

[B]

Together we're Maximum Film smart about movies in Hollywood.

[A]

So you don't have to be. But if you already are, that's also great. And hey, we see you new episodes Every week on MaximumFun.org. Let's go through the list of characters in general. So we got Lizzie McGuire. That's Hilary Duff. We got her best friend. They note that Miranda is Mexican a billion times, which I kind of like. I'm like, yeah, they're not. They're not whitewashing her. They're not making, you know, trying to make her. Whatever. They're like, she talks about Mexican. She talks about her parents being like president of the Latino Club or something at school, whatever.

[B]

Oh, she talks about it in the show.

[A]

She mentions it in passing. Yeah, like Miranda mentions it in passing off on the show, which I like. They have Gordo, whose full name is David Gordon, played by Adam Lamberg. Oh, crazy name. Adam Lambert. Is that somebody. Is there? You're thinking Lambert, Adam Lambert. That is who I'm thinking about. I'm thinking.

[B]

Which is very different.

[A]

Anyways, love Gordo's character. He was really smart.

[B]

I liked Gordo a lot. Gordo was fun.

[A]

He. He was like a non toxic male. That was a really good boy representation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We have Matt McGuire, Lizzie's little brother. He was also smart but deeply strange.

[B]

That was very asshole by Ginger coded to me as well.

[A]

There's a lot about Lizzie McGuire that is asshole by ginger coded. We have Joe McGuire, which is Lizzie's mom, played by Halle Todd. She was such a good mom. And Lizzie was just mean to her sometimes. Not all the time, but sometimes Lizzie would get. Would get a little bit mean. And then we have Sam McGuire, Lizzie's dad. I did like her little spunky hair too. It was really cute, her little updos and all that. It was very cute. And then Sam McGuire, Lizzie's dad, you know, a little. If he was very dad coded.

[B]

He was.

[A]

I'm gonna leave it there.

[B]

2000S dad coded. Now, was Leilani. Did she have Mexican heritage in real life?

[A]

Lane.

[B]

Did Lane have heritage?

[A]

Let me see.

[B]

Because I thought she Was Filipino.

[A]

I swear to God. She looks Filipina to me.

[B]

And I. I remember looking to check, to be like, oh, yes, she's. She's Filipino.

[A]

She's Filipino.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

She is Filipina. Wow. Yeah. No, and she looks.

[B]

But they make her.

[A]

But they made her Mexican. Yeah.

[B]

Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I only thought about that because when you said that, I was like, oh, I thought she was okay. All right.

[A]

Whoa. That's very interesting.

[B]

That's interesting, right?

[A]

Yeah. Her last name is Vergara Paras.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

Filipino American, born in California to Filipino parents. Spoken openly about navigating her identity while growing up in Hollywood. Feeling pressured to appear more white. Connecting to her Filipino heritage later in life. Born in Burbank. Gang. Gang. Gang. Okay. Yeah. No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No, you're right. And then Kate Sanders, played by Ashley. I'm not even gonna try to pronounce that last name. Ethan Kraft. Clayton Snyder. Ethan Craft was her.

[B]

The crush.

[A]

Crush. Yeah. And Kate was the mean girl. And then we get into the two black characters. Okay. Two black characters on Lizzie McGuire. Kate's best friend, Claire Miller.

[B]

I'm like, who? Okay.

[A]

Who is deeply a sidekick. Like, for sure. The way that Lizzie McGuire handled the black characters kind of is. Is pissed me off.

[B]

I didn't watch enough of the rewatch.

[A]

To know she was deeply a sidekick. Like, existed to serve. Kate didn't like that. And then the only other black character is Matt's best friend, Lainey. And Lainey does not speak. Lainey does not speak in the show. And people speculate that the reason that Lainey doesn't speak in the show is because at the time, SAG Screen Actors Guild, you had to pay for if a character spoke five lines or more. You had to pay more. Something like that. Yeah. If it was like, five lines or more than you had to pay them. A certain. No. Why can everybody else get paid? But. But Lainey can't get paid. What is that about?

[B]

Okay. I don't know nothing about it. Yeah.

[A]

I didn't really. I didn't really care for that.

[B]

And then I would say as a kid, it was a fun little quirk that Lainey didn't speak.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I didn't. I mean, I. I don't know the. The reasonings for why they made a character who does not speak. Yeah.

[A]

And then at some point. And this could just be me taking it too far. This could be me taking it too far.

[B]

Let's hear it.

[A]

There was some point in the series where I stopped seeing Laney, but I did start Seeing a monkey. So Sequoia, I. I did stop seeing Laney. Laney stopped appearing on that damn show. And a monkey started coming in through Matt's window and doing his homework. And for him, the monkey also couldn't speak. Obviously, it's a monkey. So I'm like, so y'. All. Something about that ain't sit right. That.

[B]

That didn't take the tin foil.

[A]

No, the 10. It lives on my head.

[B]

It's permanently. I think you got it.

[A]

I got it on under here right now. If I pop this up. I'm just saying I thought that that was strange. I didn't like the way that Lainey's character was handled. Didn't like the way that Kate's best friend, whose name I didn't even know, that that girl was in the show as much as she was. That's how deeply sidekick she was until I re. Watched the show and I said, oh, she's in many, many episodes.

[B]

I feel like maybe. I don't know how much after watching the Traitors and them saying that Stephen Coletti was in One Tree Hill. And I said, no, he wasn't.

[A]

Hello.

[B]

And then I went back and looked on Wikipedia, and that man was in, like, 57 episodes. And I said, where was I?

[A]

With Stephen. But doesn't that tell you how forgettable the character has to be?

[B]

I mean, you didn't do no type of nothing. I mean, you were in all them episodes, and I didn't remember. Like, what does that tell me about the. Like. You know what I'm trying to say?

[A]

It couldn't have been. Couldn't have been great. Couldn't have been great.

[B]

You didn't have nothing going on for you that was memorable to me in any way. And that is a little. Because I remember you from the Hills. I remember you from Luna deeply. That's what I know you from. That's why I thought they were lying.

[A]

When they put it. One Tree Hill on there. I said, why are they billing him as One Tree Hill, Laguna Beach?

[B]

Like, he was on Laguna and he was more. And then I looked, and it turns out he was not.

[A]

He was not. He was regular cast.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On the other show. Similarly. Yeah. That's. That's. That's Claire. She was. She was there. She was very present and very forgettable because all she did was be Kate's little dumbass minion. And that was very annoying to me. Yeah. Some of my favorite episodes, that Miranda eating disorder episode. I really like that episode because selfishly, at the end, they do a dance Sequence to plays us against the world. You got. You remember that song? That song is the pinnacle of girlhood to me. So bad.

[B]

Like I actually sold the whole episode.

[A]

For you sold the whole that my dopamine receptors lit the fuck up at the end of the episode and wasn't even the type of episode it needed to be doing that for.

[B]

That's what I'm like. I'm hearing the content of the episode and it's not matching with the jovial response that I'm receiving. Receiving from you.

[A]

Matter of fact, I. I tried to fast forward to the end as I was watching on Disney plus so I could. So I could get to the dance break. Come to find out Disney plus did not get the licensing for Plays us against the world for the streaming and so I got some random ass music. Just random pissed me off.

[B]

You know how quickly I don't like about digital media is I really be wrecking my brain feeling the Yin Yang twins have this song whistle while you twerk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I know for a fact in my childhood that the from the Snow Wives and the Seven Dorsets in there when I go on Apple Music or Spotify and I play whistle while you twerk. It's not in there. It's not in there. I believe that Disney said this is not what we intended.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

This song for.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it makes me feel. Because I remember being a kid in Atlanta.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Listening to that song on the radio and I obviously loved it because of that melody. Like I was obsessed with that song. And so when I go and I play it on Spotify, Apple, whatever, it's not in there.

[A]

What? That feels impossible to me.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. Like, and it made me for years I was like, did I imagine that that was in there?

[A]

Like Mandela effect.

[B]

You know what I'm trying to say? Like it seems like what you're saying about this like episode where I literally was like, no, I'm not crazy. That was absolutely in that song.

[A]

No, I. 1000% yes.

[B]

Thank you. And I'm like, yeah, that sounds like a Disney set.

[A]

Hey, we're not paying for that. Hey, yeah, you won't.

[B]

You won't make that.

[A]

What Fart, Right? Yeah. Disney said we didn't know that you guys were going to take it down, say all that. So take that away.

[B]

To be fair, I don't think the young twins. I think that was a. As for forgiveness and not permission, I cannot imagine they said that song to Disney.

[A]

Certainly didn't send that to Disney ahead of time.

[B]

Can we use the rights of this song.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah. Disney heard it for the first time when we did baby 1000%.

[A]

They said, wait a minute. Oh, my. I know that's not ours. Oh, my God.

[B]

Shout out. Wow. Anyway, so, okay, so, yeah.

[A]

So the end of the episode no longer features. At least not on Disney plus doesn't feature us against the world by play. So I had to mute it. Hit play on the play song. Hit play on the episode and do it that way. Garrick helped me with that. He was like, okay, yeah, go. Hit, go.

[B]

I had a sink because I already said, sequoia, get a grip.

[A]

He knows how I am about my childhood media. I needed that in my soul. Anyways, I really like that episode. This has some really good episodes. I like.

[B]

I think it does. I think it does. I think it holds up. I think the parents are very. I don't know. They just remind me. I would have been. I remember being a kid and watching Lizzie McGuire. I wanted to have. I don't know if you feel like this. When I watch Disney shows, there was always, like, a hangout spot where everybody went to do their homework and hang out. I literally came up with, now who did I give it to? I don't know. I came up with a business plan for why we needed to have one of those in my neighborhood.

[A]

Oh, Nacho. We're coming up with a third spaces.

[B]

Business plan because I said, mind you, don't go nowhere. Don't want to party, don't want to do nothing. But I said, the people need that.

[A]

Well, no, that's real.

[B]

We need to have a way to go Eat some pizza, have a little fruit punch.

[A]

And that's a raven. It's the chill grill on Moesha. What is it called on Moesha? It's the place that Endel owns. Huh? It's the dot on Degrassi. Yeah, they're just like.

[B]

And I looked around, and I said.

[A]

Where'S ours?

[B]

Where do we go?

[A]

Where's mine?

[B]

And they had just. They had just opened a little retail center over by me, and I saw. Made a business plan for. Y' all need to open at Concrete Marketplace. Open up a little spot for the. For the youth.

[A]

So Cascade didn't work.

[B]

The skating rink?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, to be fair, we did have Cascade, to be very clear. But I. No, I did. We did have cassette. I think I was envisioning, though, a space where you could also do your homework.

[A]

Do your homework.

[B]

You were not gonna. That was not Cat. You know what I mean?

[A]

We wanted a coffee Shop I wanted.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. That was the vibe for that. Cascade was all. Cascade had a team club. You know what I'm saying? Cascade had a.

[A]

So.

[B]

But we did. We did have Cascade.

[A]

Yes. Okay, that's fair. We didn't have. We had a place called Skate Depot that was always go at your own risk type situation.

[B]

It was fighting, shooting. My cousin called me up. It had to be about a year or two ago. She said, I met Cascade, and the vibe is getting a little spooky. Come pick me up. I picked her up. And later that night.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Yeah. I said, well, I appreciate that you're.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You're looking around, you're noticing when y' all ain't never here no other time, and it's getting a little spooky. She texted me. She said, the vibes are off here. I don't know. The people that's in here come pick me up.

[A]

Oh, yeah, pick her up.

[B]

And the next morning, I saw one of her, unfortunately, one of her classmates that got shot.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? The. The kids. Some of the kids can use that discernment. Some of the kids. Some of the kids, yeah.

[B]

So no, it. At our skating rink, too. It does get a little, like.

[A]

But I'm like, it's a little touch and go.

[B]

It could be a little bit of time.

[A]

Yeah. Where the hell could you go at the end of the day? I really want to know. But, yeah. I don't remember where they was hanging out at Liz McGuire. I think they were hanging out at Lizzie's house.

[B]

What it's called. Am I making that up? Maybe it wasn't Lizzy, but I feel like I distinctly remember it being Lizzie, that there was, like, a restaurant spot that they would go to.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I attribute Lizzy, and maybe I am making it up. Y' all will tell me if I'm wrong. I attribute Lizzie to that, and I also attribute Lizzie to the max with the colored Max. Did she not have a colored Max in some of the episodes?

[A]

What are you talking about? What is the colored Mac?

[B]

You remember the Mac? The desktops.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

She did, right?

[A]

She did.

[B]

Because I remember watching Lizzy and being like, I want one of them.

[A]

Oh, yeah. For really bad.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? One of them so bad.

[A]

And they would be tip typing away to each other on AIM or whatever digital instant messenger they would use. Let me see this. The Digital Bean is apparently where they would hang out in Lizzie McGuire.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

It was a coffee house, a smoothie bar. As well as in the school hallway. Oh, they would hang out in the school hallways. The school cafeteria.

[B]

Got to let AI go. And I can't be more clear.

[A]

AI overview really do be popping up still.

[B]

Click on it.

[A]

I didn't. I don't click on it. It pops up.

[B]

I just be reading it.

[A]

Right. I'm like, what is they talking about?

[B]

And that's why we headed to the pits of hell today.

[A]

I read. Well, thank you very much. Kind of. So there was a reboot for Lizzie McGuire that was supposed to come out in, what, like, 2020? I think they actually shot two episodes, like, a pilot episode in the next episode. And I don't know where that lives, but if you look on IMDb, it is built under, like, their credits.

[B]

Like, it didn't. Because I didn't think they. I thought. I didn't think they got past pre production.

[A]

Well, you know what? Maybe they didn't get past pre production, but it is built, like, as though it exists somewhere interesting, you know? Like, I'm like, where is it? Why y' all putting it on People's IMDb if it's only SIS, I would like to see it.

[B]

Put it on YouTube.

[A]

Put it on YouTube. Like, put it off for free if you have it. Why are you holding it? You're pissing me off. Apparently, Lizzie had to move back in with her parents, and that was part of the premise of the.

[B]

It would have been very timely for these. These times.

[A]

Hello.

[B]

Everybody got to move back home.

[A]

Very relatable.

[B]

The water bills, the. The mortgage. Everything is getting a little high.

[A]

Very relatable. Everything was getting a little high. Another portion of Liz McGar that I really liked her and Gordo's relationship toward the end of the series. Gordo was her boy best friend who had a crush on her. I don't really think he had a crush on her the whole time, but it feels like it developed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he started to be like, oh, wait a minute. I wanted him to have a crush on Miranda. Personally, I.

[B]

For a minute, when I was re. Watching, I couldn't remember, and I'm like, is it Gordo, Miranda? But that. I do think they would have been cute, though.

[A]

They would have been really.

[B]

It's something about their personalities that I think would have offset each other really.

[A]

100. I agree. But no. So he has a crush on Lizzie. I think it culminates. It culminates in the season finale where he's trying to tell her how he feels, and he ends up, like, not being able to tell her he Writes this really sweet note in her yearbook. Because the joke is, she's signing, you rock, don't ever change in everybody's yearbook. And he writes that in hers, but he's like, and I really mean it, or some like that. And she's like, oh, my God, that's so touching. And then they go and take their final photo as a class, and she kisses him on the cheek during the final photo. Super cute. Also during the Lizzie McGuire movie, you know, while she's out chasing Paolo or whatever, the gordo is pining over her, trying to be there for her while she out with this grown ass man.

[B]

Did you go on an international trip in high school?

[A]

Absolutely not. Did you?

[B]

I went to Paris. I went to Paris for two weeks.

[A]

What?

[B]

In high school.

[A]

Did I ever tell you this? No.

[B]

That was my. I had never been. I'd been on. I had been like, to the Caribbean and I had been on cruises, but that was my first time going to Europe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. The foreign exchange student at my high school went back home and she was like, if you're ever in town, holler. You know, whatever. And we were like, well, girl, so we can book a little trip if you want us to.

[A]

What?

[B]

And we went and we were there for two weeks.

[A]

Who's we?

[B]

Me and my best friend at the time. We went. My. And I remember because it was expensive and I had a single mom and we weren't destitute, but we definitely didn't have money to just send you over to Europe.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so I wrote letters to, like, a lot of my mom's friends and a lot of, like, the adults in my life saying, like, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

[A]

You are a special type of kid.

[B]

Yeah. Why?

[A]

Because you were writing let. You were like, really? About. Yeah, like you were trying to get.

[B]

The third time opportunity.

[A]

You was trying to go to Paris. Like, you was really. You was never gonna be the girl that didn't go to Paris. You was never gonna be that girl.

[B]

And I was always a little entrepreneurial. We always got a little entrepreneurial side hustle a little bit.

[A]

You were different.

[B]

Yeah. I wrote letters and they all sent varying amounts, but they all sent money. And I was able to put all the money together and go to Paris initiative. We went to Paris in London and we stayed for two weeks. And while we were in Paris, we stayed with her grandma, who didn't speak a lick of English and I don't speak a lick of French.

[A]

Right. Yeah. Wow.

[B]

I was home sick like a.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, you know, you're really young. So that.

[B]

I was young. I was maybe 9th grade.

[A]

Ish. I was so young.

[B]

Yeah. Nate. 9th, 10th grade at the moment, it was. It was definitely not the. Towards the end of high school.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I remember that was my first time going away from my mom, and I was gone for two weeks.

[A]

That is a long time.

[B]

And I remember being like, y' all are very nice. Take me back to my mom.

[A]

I want my mother. I'm.

[B]

I'm picky. I was way pickier of her eater then than I was now. So I. I was surviving off lemon tarts and croissants.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Because I ain't like nothing because fresh.

[A]

Food is touch and go.

[B]

Touch and go for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why are y' all putting these tomatoes in my plat? I love tomatoes now, but why y' all putting these in? So I ate croissants and I ate lemon bars the entire two.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

The entire two weeks. Anyway.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It just reminded me because I'm like. That was such a, like, seminal experience for me. And it was so funny to see them go on their class trip.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And go off to Italy, you know?

[A]

Wow. No, we. We didn't get no foreign exchange student. We ain't get. We. We ain't do nothing like that in high school.

[B]

I got to do it. And it was so nice.

[A]

My school must have been broke. Child. Oh, no. Okay, the characters, where are they now? Theories. So let's say that school has a class reunion. Middle school does not. But let's say for the. It does have a clash reunion. What do you think Lizzy is doing now? You think she's married? You think she has kids? What you think Lizzie McGuire is up to now?

[B]

Yeah, I assumed when you said she moved in back with her parents, she was moving in with her kids. Okay. Her man.

[A]

Okay. So Lizzie and the whole family returns home. They didn't fell on hard times, and.

[B]

Now they're back with the mom and dad.

[A]

And they got to be in a multi generational household, which I kind of.

[B]

Like as I like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I assume the brother is on some super smart brainiac and got a nice job and is living well.

[A]

He definitely learned how to code way earlier than it was like, cool or way.

[B]

He's doing well. And he's like, very unfortunate for you, but I'm doing great.

[A]

100. I'm doing really good. He also. He very much takes after Steve Jobs. He only wears black T shirts. He codes. You can't really tell if he's clean or dirty half the time because he just wears the same thing all the time. But he has a lot of money. But you would never know looking at him, because it looks home. He looks homely.

[B]

Yeah. He got a long time girlfriend, but marriage ain't really nothing that like, you know, I'm trying to say very much trucks. And that's a little too traditional for him.

[A]

Very much. Okay, so, boom, we got the two of them. Miranda. I think Miranda is a lawyer. I think Miranda's a lawyer. And she's like a damn good one. Like a trial attorney, high profile.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Dragging these in public type situations, you know, it's like, no, this one's televised and I am going to be the one that pops out. And you are going to be scared as soon as you see me because, you know the vibes, you know what I'm giving you.

[B]

Fair enough. I was gonna say she gives like celebrity hairstylist to me or something.

[A]

Like, I could see that too. Something creative.

[B]

Something very creative, very stylie. But like, at a high level. She's not struggling, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

She's not sure. She was never meant to struggle.

[B]

I could see her as a, like celebrity hair stylist or something like that, where she's mixy but she's not in the front.

[A]

Yes, I could definitely see that. That makes complete sense. Gordo in the series has dreams of being a filmmaker.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So he's like a director.

[B]

I think Gordo could do it.

[A]

I could definitely see that for him. Yeah, it makes sense. He. He made a. A24 variant. Yeah. Like very romance, kind of like. What's the name of that one? Oh, Past Lives.

[B]

He made.

[A]

He made something like Past Lives.

[B]

Yeah. Jordo is a 24. Yeah, yeah, I see, I see it, I see it.

[A]

Okay. Kate Sanders. Kate Sanders definitely peaks in high school. Although this is middle school. She certainly peaks in high school. She's like head of the cheerleading squad in high school and all that stuff. She thinks that life is very much going to be like that. Like the hierarchy of a high school. When she gets into the real world, quickly realizes, baby, you ain't nobody is on her ass. She definitely works as a bartender in their hometown. She never left the hometown. And when everybody comes back home for the holidays or whatever, she is embarrassed that she has to see them all as they trickle into her bar and they're like, hey, Kate, you know, what's, what's up with you? And she's like, you know, I, I'm. I'm here having a good time. She has a couple kids, a man that won't commit.

[B]

Damn late off case.

[A]

Damn. That's what she got. Damn. Matter of fact, she had. She got pregnant in high school, and so she's a really. She was a really young mom. No, this is exactly what happened to Kate.

[B]

Here's what happened, okay? Kate is absolutely. Mary Kate got married damn near before she. She went to college. You know how to. You know. Well, I don't know the same because I. Yeah. Go there to get your Mrs. Degree. That's what she did. She went to college. She got her Mrs. Degree. She got her man. She got married shortly after college.

[A]

Divorced. Divorced.

[B]

She is not divorced. She's just married here. And I think she works in, like, marketing now. I didn't say she was happy. I think she has one of those, like, marketing jobs where she was like, I thought this was so glamorous and so cushy. And now life is not. I think she's very much like, life has not turned out how I. I have all of the things. Okay. Why has this not gone the way that I thought it would go?

[A]

Okay, listen. If you think Kate is a bartender, drop a. A martini glass in the comments.

[B]

You made her the bartender. Single mama, Divorce. She's not divorced. She didn't have a man who would want to marry her. She peaked. Oh, teen mom. I'm sorry. I forgot. Not just single mom. Teen mom. Jesus Christ.

[A]

I mean, she's not single. The man is present. He just. Don't. He won't. He keep playing in her face.

[B]

Okay, he won't.

[A]

Yeah, no, he won't. He won't marry her. And she really wants that.

[B]

Better to be single. Better to be single.

[A]

And she really. Anyways, if you think Kate is a bartender and what I described, drop the martini glass. If you think Kate works in marketing and what Jewel described, drop a laptop.

[B]

She lives a very average life. She works in marketing, she got a husband. It's a very vanilla, average life.

[A]

All right, all right. And then Ethan Craft, I think he goes on to be a model, but just nothing. Nothing. Nothing between the ears, per usual. But he does, in fact, go on to have a nice modeling degree. He keeps up with himself. He left town. He definitely moved to, like, a bigger city. Not. Maybe not the biggest.

[B]

Where did they live?

[A]

Allegedly, Liz McGuire took place in a suburb, a fictionalized suburb of Los Angeles.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Interesting. They're a modeling degree. You can get your degree.

[A]

Did I say that?

[B]

You did.

[A]

Oh, that's not what I'M trying to figure it out. That's not what I meant. He just. He's a model. He's. He's, you know, good for him.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

In magazines and such.

[B]

I gotta be for that.

[A]

He was tall, too, so he could be Runway. You know, he did a lot of stuff. And then who. Who else is there? That's really it. I could do Clarence, Claire, and Laney, but they have no damn. They have no damn storyline for me to know what will be going on with them. So there's that. But, yeah, that's where I think the cast of Lizzie McGuire would be today or at their reunion, perhaps.

[B]

Okay. Did you sign yearbooks? Did you do, like. Do you remember? I. Sometimes I go back and read them. Do you know where you're like, have you looked at them?

[A]

I went back and read some of my yearbook that people put in my yearbook out loud to Garrick the other day, one of my best friends. Current best friend. You know him? I won't even say his name. I won't say his name. It's not Ryan Best. A best friend I went to high school with. Of course you do. I read what he wrote in my yearbook.

[B]

You made that up. I don't know.

[A]

I would get that man canceled if I. If I uttered. If I speak.

[B]

I said, better than Facebook, baby. Better than in Facebook. Just put it in writing so we.

[A]

Can tuck it away in the. The two of us, he and I, same best friend, be sending each other. We'll happen along on Facebook and see.

[B]

What we was writing on this day.

[A]

And we're like, like, hey, go delete that. Hey, I deleted my side. You go delete your side. Because what the were we talking about? What were we talking about?

[B]

Letting preteens and teenagers be on the Internet.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

Regrettable.

[A]

Absolutely batshit crazy. Yeah. Anyways, did you sign yearbooks? Did you find. Do you find anything entertaining?

[B]

We signed yearbooks. And then in middle school, I specifically remember, we would sign each other's T shirts. And so I still had. I mean, I don't watch it so much because, you know, I love a long tee. I still sleep in my T shirt.

[A]

So same.

[B]

You really can't see what they said on the T shirts because I've washed them out. But the. But the yearbooks. I do go back and look, and it's just fun to see, like, oh, this was my little crush. And, like, what they were saying or my child. I've known my childhood best friend since I was a toddler, and so it's like, she's like, hey, girl, hope to see you around or something.

[A]

I'm like, hilarious.

[B]

So formal. Like, you know what I mean? Like, so it's really funny to go back and. And some people being like, girl, I ain't gotta say see you later, because I already know you ride or die for life. And I couldn't tell you where the people at. That I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you. So it's funny to look at that. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I do enjoy going back and looking at my yearbook. It was also such a big deal. Like, some people would take your yearbook all day. I don't know if this happened to you, but, like, some people take your yearbook all day as they, like, tried to write this thing. I'm like, you had my shit all day for this.

[B]

I remember I had a crush on this guy. I asked my mom about this the other day. I had a crush on this guy. He was a basketball player. And I remember I thought he was going to lead. Yes, I did. I thought he was going to the league. And I thought I was going to be Juliana Rancic on E. News. And so I would cover when he got picked up by the league girlfriend. But also covering, you know what I'm saying, the NBA career. Why would I. That's not even. That's sports. That's not even entertainment. That's what I thought. I said that to my mama the other day. I said, didn't you think he was going to the league? And she said, I never thought that.

[A]

How tall was he, Jewel?

[B]

He was like 6 4.

[A]

That's short for the league.

[B]

But not to me. I don't know what his position was. So don't ask me that because I don't know. I don't know nothing. Nothing. I know he played on the basketball team. We're pretty good. I mean, we're pretty good by high school standards. Like, we always made the championship, you know, whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he was tall. In my mind. How am I supposed to know that the basketball players are taller than that? I thought he was going to leave.

[A]

Let's also keep in mind Jewel doesn't have a good gaydar at all either. And you also, you know, I love a gay man.

[B]

I love a gay man.

[A]

You know what I mean? So, like, the discernment on Jules crushes just wasn't the strongest.

[B]

I said something other day and I had to think. I don't think that's because I was like, straight girls are up, cuz I thought a guy was cute. And then after I Said it. I said, I don't think he's for me.

[A]

I don't think that he would find interest in.

[B]

I don't think he thinks that yet, you know, But I did. I thought he was going to. I thought he was. I had planned it out. He going to leave. I'mma be on E. News Power couple.

[A]

Well, anyways.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm going to have you rank these movies without knowing what's coming next. These are Hillary Duff movies. I'm going to have you rank them.

[B]

I have to rank them before you tell me the next movie?

[A]

Yep. One, two, three. There's five.

[B]

It's five Hillary Duff movies. Y. I don't remember them, so I can't.

[A]

Yes, there are five Hillary Duff movies. I'll say one. You put it in a ranking without knowing what. I don't know them. Yes, you do, Jewel. Okay, you ready? You ready?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay. Cadet Kelly.

[B]

Oh, I give that a three.

[A]

Okay, you putting that on three. You putting that at number three.

[B]

It's five.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

Can I move stuff?

[A]

Nope. Once you put it, it's there. Cinderella story.

[B]

1.

[A]

1. Okay. Okay. Cheaper by the dozen. 2. Okay, we got Cinderella story 1. Cheaper by the dozen. Two. Cadet Kelly. Three. So all you got is four and five left, babe, I don't care. Lizzie McGuire movie 4. And you feel good about that?

[B]

I don't even know what you're saying. You know what I'm trying to say? So now I'm like, oh, Cadet Kelly. Like, I hadn't thought about it. So I can't even imagine.

[A]

I know you're not gonna know this last one. Raise your voice. 5.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you remember that one?

[B]

No, I don't know what you're talking about.

[A]

That was a theatrical release. Like, that was like Lizzie's first. Like. Oh, this is kind of a darker role. Like in. In it, I think her younger sibling dies in a car accident and it's her family dealing with the grief or getting something like that. I know y' all gonna crack me.

[B]

You're gaslighting me. Like I was gonna remember that damn movie and regret my whole life. Decision is nuts.

[A]

Because I thought she was Gonna regret Lizzie McGuire movie at number four. That would be my number one.

[B]

That'd be your number one.

[A]

That'd be my number one.

[B]

No, not today.

[A]

At least not today.

[B]

Not today. Cause period. Yeah, I would do. I would do cheaper body Des. And I feel I. That was number two, right? I had One is Cinderella Story. Two was Cheaper by the dozen.

[A]

Three was Cadet Kelly.

[B]

That's pushing it. I would do. If I could do it over, I would do three as Lizzie McGuire, four as Cadet Kelly, and then five is whatever the hell else you say.

[A]

Okay. It's raise your voice. That is. That is razor. I believe the song Fly comes from Raise your voice. I really could be wrong about that.

[B]

I listened to that today. I said, this sounds vaguely familiar.

[A]

I think that's. I think that is fun. People think that's her best song. People love that song. Down didn't do much for me.

[B]

I pray they get the Worldwide tickets that they are.

[A]

Not the Worldwide. I might go. Honestly, I might go. If I can get.

[B]

So you would do this, but you wouldn't go see JLO in Vegas with me?

[A]

I said I would go for friendship.

[B]

Oh, okay. You did.

[A]

Yeah. I would go see that lady for y'. All. You wouldn't. But you wouldn't go see Hillary for me.

[B]

I would. I would. I would. I would go see. No, I'm not even joking. I would go see. I honestly, I could be convinced to do anything if my friends gonna be there, and it's a good time. You know what I mean? Like, now, it does depend on how much it costs. I'm not paying 400 to see Hillary Duff.

[A]

It also depends on how late you want me to be awake.

[B]

That's also why I pulled it back for JLo, because I'm like, I got a big flight.

[A]

I gotta. It would cost a lot for you to go see JLo.

[B]

A troll is starting to become a real expensive troll.

[A]

You know what I mean? And I don't have the funds for an expensive troll.

[B]

Thank you. But if it. Yeah, if I don't have to. If I don't have to be out super late, if it's in my budget and my friends are like. And I'm not tired, like, I haven't already done 55 other friend things and my social battery is not drained. I'll be there.

[A]

That's. That's. That's quite a few stipulations you got there.

[B]

But I heard it when I was saying it.

[A]

I said, well, okay, she might be there. Like, the percentage of. Julian, there's like 45%, which is not, you know, it's approaching half. It's approaching one, and two is near. It's not completely unlikely that she'll be there.

[B]

I done did a lot of social.

[A]

You know what I mean? That's a little bit of a. I don't think I have anything else. Yeah, I don't. I don't really I fear I don't have anything else.

[B]

And don't let me find out it's far either.

[A]

And that's another thing. That's another thing.

[B]

Tell me how far I need to travel before I agree, because you know.

[A]

What I mean, I might have to take it back. Well, we don't have anything else for today's episode either. Well, you.

[B]

Are you gonna rank them? I mean, it's not blind.

[A]

I mean, it's not blind for me, but if I did have to rank him, I would do Lizzie McGuire movie, Cadet Kelly, Cinderella story. Cheaper by the dozen. Raise your voice. And I'm only ranking cheaper by the dozen that low because I have not seen it.

[B]

You've never seen Cheaper by the Dozen? Interesting.

[A]

Never seen Cheaper. Something about raise your voice name Cheaper by the dozen. The title of it. I'm really sensitive about a title of a piece of media. I don't know what it is. It's like something that I have about me. I don't like the name of that movie.

[B]

What is it that you don't like?

[A]

I don't like the ch and cheaper. I don't like the cheaper. I don't like Cheaper by the Dozen. It sounds like chicken and eggs. And I know that. That's the whole point. I don't like that. I don't know how to put it. So it turned me off.

[B]

This is your own quirk.

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

I see colors as numbers, and I see the numbers is also. It is agenda.

[A]

Numbers do have genders. Yes.

[B]

So for you.

[A]

So I didn't like the name of that one. So I never saw that one. I did see raise your voice in theaters. I remember leaving the theater. Like, I don't know.

[B]

That title bothers me.

[A]

Okay. They tried to have Lizzie playing like a singer. Lizzy. They tried to have Hillary playing like, us singer.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. To me, when I hear raise your voice, I think of. I don't remember the name of that movie because it was a little past my Disney age. So you might know. I'm not trying to be funny. Coco Jones.

[A]

That's it. I know exactly what you're talking about.

[B]

Because I'm like, you might have still been in.

[A]

In. It was like a gospel movie with Tyler Williams and Coco Jones. It was like lift every. It wasn't lift every voice unless.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I think of. But Coco Jones has those types of pipes that would support a song called.

[A]

A movie called lift your voice.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I don't. I don't believe Let it shine, shine, Let it shine. That ain't got nothing to do with it.

[A]

It didn't.

[B]

Anyway. What all I know all I know at the end of the day is I don't think of Lizzy Hillary. I don't think so I don't like it. Or raise your voice either gives me I'm gonna sing the house down.

[A]

Yeah. Or it gives black national anthem. Yeah.

[B]

Like I'm like it gives black power protest. Neither of which were present aligned with what I'm thinking this movie is about. So I don't like the title.

[A]

If you're not giving lift every voice and sing, then I don't. Yeah, I didn't. And and, and it was a disappointment when I saw it in theaters. But that's just me. That's all that I have for this episode today. If you had thoughts, have vibes, want to talk to us at all? You can find us on socials@BPL, PE Pod. You can find us on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and literally anywhere else you can get podcasts. You can send us an email at blackpeople love paramore gmail.com I love when y' all email us. I'll be sending us the nicest emails. Very sweet. If ever we do a fan mail episode again where we just kind of read your mail and respond to it, you can send that at any time. You don't have to wait for me to tell you all that a fan mail episode is coming up. There will be another one, so you can send it whenever and we'll see you next time. Bye. La.