Soul Food

Summary

Black People Love Paramore – Episode Summary

Podcast: Black People Love Paramore
Episode: "Soul Food"
Air Date: November 24, 2025
Hosts: Sequoia Holmes, Ryann Graham (with contributions from Jewel Wicker, though not prominent in this episode)

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Overview

In this lively, humor-driven episode, hosts Sequoia and Ryann take a deep dive into the 1997 film Soul Food and the broader meaning, history, and culture of soul food in Black American life. True to the podcast’s theme, they analyze underexplored corners of Black pop culture—this time traversing film tropes, family dynamics, generational trauma, food opinions, and more.
Through playful banter and sharp cultural insight, they break down what makes Soul Food a “Black classic” (and whether it even is one), dissect its characters, and connect it to listeners’ personal experiences around the kitchen table. The episode moves between lighthearted jokes and earnest discussions about Black family traditions, expectations, and portrayals in media.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is Soul Food a “Black Classic”?

• Cultural Standing:
  • Sequoia and Ryann debate whether Soul Food holds up as a Black classic alongside films like Poetic Justice, Waiting to Exhale, and The Wood.
  • Sequoia: “This movie is not a mainstay in the cultural zeitgeist.” (05:42)
  • Ryann admits it was a staple in his household but agrees it’s not always on mainstream lists.
• Personal Experience:
  • The movie was often watched during holidays in the hosts’ families, reinforcing its standing as a personal (if not universal) classic.

2. Film Overview and Adaptations

• A quick breakdown of Soul Food’s premise: three sisters in a Chicago Black family navigating tradition and turmoil after their matriarch’s passing.
• Discussion of the film’s semi-autobiographical elements—director George Tillman Jr. based the narrative on his own family.
• The TV show adaptation that ran on Showtime from 2000–2004 gets a mention—leading to nostalgia and jokes about sneaking to watch adult scenes as kids.
  • “There was a lot of sex in it. It was on Showtime. I know.” (08:19)

3. Star-Studded Cast

• Impressions of cast members: Vanessa Williams, Vivica A. Fox, Nia Long, and others.
• Fun asides on Boris Kodjoe (“He is fine...He has a good face, a good bald head, which a lot of men don’t.” – Sequoia, 09:02).

4. Black Family Dynamics—Art Imitates Life

• The hosts explore Soul Food's family drama, drawing parallels to their own and listeners’ experiences.
  • Sequoia: “When my whole family comes together for the holidays, the likelihood that something sets it off and that we don’t speak again until the next holiday is seven out of ten.” (15:26)
• Contrasting family experiences: Ryann’s childhood holidays were quiet and elderly-centric, chosen for laughs.

5. Character Deep-Dive: Team Terry!

• Most of the episode’s analysis revolves around the sisters, especially Terry (Vanessa Williams).
• Terry:
  • A no-nonsense, successful lawyer who feels burdened by being the family’s provider.
  • The hosts make a strong case for “Justice for Terry.” Her struggles include covering family expenses and being scapegoated for asserting herself.
    • “I am a Terry apologist for the most part.” – Sequoia (17:04)
    • “They talking about, ‘She said, Big Mama...let old business lie.’ What do you mean? He’s still here!” (23:42)
• Maxine & Bird:
  • Maxine is portrayed as the domestically content middle sister, while Bird is the youngest trying to uphold tradition.
  • Annie “little pick-me” jokes appear, and the hosts note gendered expectations.

6. Relationships, Masculinity, & Generational Dynamics

• The film’s depiction of Black masculinity prompts a nuanced debate:
  • It humanizes Black men but sometimes at Black women’s expense.
  • “...The burden of strength always falls on the Black woman.” – Sequoia (39:22)
  • “Your performance of burden becomes my actual burden, period.” – Ryann (40:12)
• Discussion includes:
  • Lim’s job situation, Bird’s attempts to help him, and the fallout.
  • Expectation that women must be self-sacrificing for family stability.
  • Whether generational sacrifice is admirable or a trap.

7. Soul Food: The Food!

• Ryann stirs controversy by admitting he doesn’t like most classic dishes:
  • “I don’t really like fried chicken…Give me a nugget. It’s so much more efficient.” (65:41)
• Sequoia is shocked, but both list their “desert island” soul foods.
  • Mac & cheese, yams, fried chicken, and greens rise to the top; black-eyed peas are unanimously voted out.
• They also point out the irony of the family’s health issues and persistent traditional eating, laughing about the lack of dietary advice after Big Mama’s health crisis.

8. Memorable Quotes & Scene Parodies

• Sequoia and Ryann re-enact and joke about key film scenes, especially family blowups and Terry’s infamous crash-out moment.
• “Who is that hoochie coochie mama with her fat ass all over my man on the dance floor?” – Bird, as quoted by Ryann (75:53)
• “The family. I let the family into my house and you know what happened? The family fucked my husband.” – Terry (76:07)
• “Big Mama, your arm!” – Iconic line, referenced jokingly throughout (76:19)

9. The Soundtrack and Closing Thoughts

• Babyface and LaFace Records get their flowers for a “certified multi-platinum” soundtrack (72:23).
  • “Mama, you know I love you...” Sequoia and Ryann harmonize to Boyz II Men’s “A Song for Mama.” (73:02)
• Comparing the era’s star-studded Black casts to today, they lament the rarity of such ensembles in film now.
  • “We don’t have stars like that anymore.” – Sequoia (79:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Black family arguments:
  “When my whole family comes together for like, the holidays or something, the likelihood that something sets it off and that we don’t speak again until the next holiday is seven out of ten.”
  — Sequoia (15:26)

• On Terry’s plight:
  “I let the family into my house and you know what happened? The family fucked my husband.”
  — Terry, quoted by Ryann (76:07)

• On generational burdens:
  “Your performance of burden becomes my actual burden, period.”
  — Ryann (40:12)

• On breakdowns after betrayal:
  “POV: You’re Terry, and you walk up the stairs and…see your cousin pressed up against the wall and your man’s bare ass thrusting into her, what do you do?”
  — Sequoia (57:05)

• On the soundtrack:
  “Mama, you know I love you…”
  — Both hosts, in makeshift harmony (73:02)

• On soul food preferences:
  “I don’t really like fried chicken. Give me a nugget!”
  — Ryann (65:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:00 | Brief intro to Soul Food film, cast, and cultural context | | 07:23 | TV show adaptation and family-friendly/’questionably watched’ childhood stories | | 15:26 | Discussion of Black family gatherings and “falling apart” dynamics | | 17:04 | Character deep-dive—Justice for Terry | | 39:22 | Gender roles and generational sacrifice in Black families | | 53:10 | Climax: Ahmad lies to bring the family together; the “money in the TV” plot twist | | 65:12 | Soul food preferences and Ryann’s controversial anti-fried chicken stance | | 73:02 | Soundtrack/karaoke moment: “Mama, you know I love you…” (Boyz II Men) | | 75:09 | Quote game—Identifying famous lines from the movie |

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Tone & Style

The conversation is fast, warm, irreverent, and self-aware, blending pop culture critique with personal anecdote and playfully sharp humor. The hosts lovingly roast each other, the film, and Black cultural tropes, while also pausing for real talk on trauma, tradition, and the shifting meaning of “soul food” in Black life.

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Takeaways

• Soul Food remains a personal classic with high cultural resonance, especially around themes of family, tradition, and generational burden—even if it’s not as universally canonized as other Black films.
• The film’s depiction of family, gender roles, and food traditions still sparks passionate, nuanced debate decades later.
• Black popular culture is rich with shared memories around family gatherings, food, and complicated interpersonal history.
• The episode strikes a balance between laughter, nostalgia, critique, and celebration—not just of the film, but of Black family life itself.

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Further Listening

The hosts encourage listeners to join the conversation on social media, share soul food stories, family drama, or simply rate and comment if they liked the show, promising more listener engagement in the next episode.

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Episode available with video on Spotify and YouTube. Merch and more info in the show notes.

Transcript

[A]

You guys, if you have any funny stories, any little piece of advice that you want our takes on or you have any questions for me, Jewel or Ryan, you want to get to know us a little bit better, please email [e-mail] or you can DM us on Instagram. We are going to be responding to and answering the funniest questions, stories, pieces of advice on next episode. So we'll see you there. Bye, Foreign. Welcome to Black People Love Paramore, a pop culture podcast, not about the man Paramore, but about the common as well as the uncommon interests of black people. I'm Sequoia Holmes. And I'm Ryan Graham. And today we're going to be talking about soul food. When we talk about common and uncommon. This is. We're in the comments. I feel like, yeah, I feel like we're into. Into the commons. But before we get into that, some housekeeping per usual rate us and write us review. I went through y' all Spotify comments. I don't know why it took me this long to, like, look at the Spotify comments. Spotify comments are funny. You guys are like having a good time in the Spotify comments. Please continue that. Also the YouTube comments, we're looking at upping the quality of the video soon. So also there's. There should be video on Spotify for this episode. If you feel like looking at us on Spotify.

[B]

I know. Tell me, tell. If you think we're hot, comment, comment a fire emoji. And if you don't comment, a fire emoji. Either way, tell us we're pretty.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You know your emoji, that's different. And if you think we're ugly, you can comment.

[B]

We a.

[A]

An ax emoji.

[B]

Wow, I like that.

[A]

Is that an emoji act?

[B]

Is an emoji. Okay, sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what else? I mean, maybe this won't be in this, but we could also do like a Amazon like wish list. We could have if you want to do a crowdsourcing.

[A]

Oh, that's a really good idea. Wow.

[B]

We can discuss that and make a video about that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we'll chat. We'll. We'll run it.

[B]

Let's have a chat.

[A]

Actually, I just ran it past you, so yeah, let me know what you think. Five stars, please. If you're going to rate on Spotify or the Apple podcast, if you can give us five stars, that is very, very helpful to me and to us. So that would be great. And if you want some merch you can find it down in the description box. Yeah. Boom. Let's get into the episode.

[B]

Wow, you're very efficient at house. Thank you. You're such a good cleaner.

[A]

Thank you. My God, I'm really domestic. I've been cooking a lot.

[B]

Have you really?

[A]

Yes. In the. In the.

[B]

I see a Mendocino farm bag.

[A]

That was just today. That was just today. I've been cooking a lot. I've been making a lot of soup. I got an immersion blender. Well, I got a new one. My old one broke.

[B]

But saying lifechanging. An immersion blender really will be.

[A]

Immersion blender. I'm about to start making sauces. I remember you told me about making sauces. I'm about to start mayo.

[B]

You know who wasn't cooking healthy and making her own mayo? Big mama, Big A. I'm done.

[A]

Okay, let's get into it. Sorry.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Soul Food is a 1997American comedy drama film written and directed by George Tillman Jr. And his major studio debut. Damn, that's a hell of a debut.

[B]

I didn't realize that. Wow.

[A]

Me neither. Featuring an ensemble cast, the story centers on the trials of an extended Chicago black American family held together by long standing family traditions, which began to fade as serious problems arise. Tillman based the family on his. His family.

[B]

Oh, I don't think I realized it too. Oh, my God. That's kind of crazy for his family to.

[A]

Well, you know what, we'll get into it. But like, I feel like it makes.

[B]

It make more sense to me.

[A]

This is like very common.

[B]

It isn't. I hate that that was gonna be. One of my questions is that I'm like, this feels like black trope back. Family tropes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it does feel common, but I'm like, is it I there?

[A]

I'm not sure. You know, I'm not sure.

[B]

Some things that I relate to. Some.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But like, there's a lot of this that I'm like, how many people are.

[A]

Really interesting going, okay, okay, it. We'll get into it for sure. But it was based on his own family. And the movie is widely acclaimed for presenting more positive image of African Americans then it's typically seen in Hollywood films. Which says a lot about the way we are typically portrayed in Hollywood films. In 2015, it was announced that the 20th Century Fox is planning a sequel for the film called More Soul Food, also written by Tillman.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

I'm excited to see that. I.

[B]

Yes. And we are just in sequel.

[A]

Hell we are. And which I'm excited About.

[B]

I saw the trailer today.

[A]

I was. The shoes pissed me off.

[B]

I did two. The shoes and the walk. Because I was like, one walk's not eating. You look like you're wobbling. You look here about to fall over.

[A]

Agree. I mean, she is elderly, but like.

[B]

But then it's Miranda Priestly. Get the fucking. The character Meryl Streep in it. I don't understand. Yeah. That walk was mad wobbly. It looked like it was gonna fall.

[A]

And those shoes were Marshall's ass.

[B]

And he wasn't high enough. No, I don't even think it was a red bo.

[A]

It wasn't.

[B]

Oh, well, girl, let it go.

[A]

It was. It was literally Marshall's shoe. Which is fine. I'm not hating on my. I have several Marshall shoes. Let's start there. But Miranda Priestley, she wouldn't. She wouldn't. She was dragging Andy to hell for that blue cerulean.

[B]

Can you imagine? I if. Now, Andy, when she got on the elevator, she should have cussed around, said, what the.

[A]

Anyways, okay.

[B]

This is not. We're talking about sequel hell is what I'm saying. We're in sequel hell because Seeing lots of sequels now feel like money grabs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I will say this one. This one. I don't know that it would.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

I think this one, like.

[A]

I agree long enough.

[B]

Yes. And I feel like it's. This movie doesn't have, like, a. A cult following in that way where, like, Devil versus Prada or even Mean Girls. They're very like. They are meme. Mem.

[A]

100%.

[B]

The way that this movie is not.

[A]

This movie is not a mainstay in the cultural zeitgeist. And the general cultural zeitgeist. I would even say it's not a. When you talk about black classic films. And again, this could just be me. Don't drag. Don't eat me up.

[B]

Please do.

[A]

But when people talk about black classic films, this is not one that I hear people list all the time.

[B]

You know what's crazy? That was also gonna be. One of my questions for you, was like, do you consider this one of, like, the. And, like. So your answer is no.

[A]

I know. I do. I do. I do, personally. Just because it's one of the few that I remember having on vhs. Sure. And, like, we would watch it around the holidays. We all came together like, it was definitely a mainstay in my household. And therefore, I would put it on my list of classics. But when talking, you know, never. If I Google black classic films right now, I mean, I Could check. Theoretically. I don't imagine that it's popping up.

[B]

I. That's when I was like, like, like thinking back on this movie, I was like, oh, it doesn't feel like it will fall on those lists for me either.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

Like. Because I think of, like, you have the poetic justices. You even have like a waiting to exhale. You have, like, don't be a menace.

[A]

I said, if you want the funny things. You want.

[B]

You want the hood or what is it the wood?

[A]

The wood.

[B]

Like, yeah.

[A]

Gotta set it off.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Or set it. I'm talking about gotta set on here.

[B]

I wouldn't put baps there. I. I me.

[A]

I wouldn't put baps there either. But.

[B]

But I love.

[A]

But people do. I. I do hear. I do hear baps regularly. Correct. I've never.

[B]

I am so sorry. Can we bully Sequoia into watching Babs?

[A]

I will watch it.

[B]

It is one of my favorite.

[A]

Y' all really. To be bullying in the comments too. I'll be looking. Sequoia, you have to watch. Sequoia, you have to watch. Okay, I will.

[B]

B. So fun. I know Holly Berry probably looks back.

[A]

At that movie and it's so embarrassing. I know.

[B]

I live for that.

[A]

I like the. I totally get it. Anyways, the movie was later. The movie Soul Food was later adapted into a TV show. Soul Food, it's an American drama television series aired on Showtime from 2000 to 2004. It was developed by Felicia D. Henderson. The. The show picks up six months after the events of the film, starting with the birth of Bird and Lim's son Jeremiah, as the family tries to hold together after the death of Big Mama.

[B]

It's crazy. That show lasted for, like, four years.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

My mom watched it.

[A]

I watched it.

[B]

Oh, did you? I did. It was one of those shows. My mom would be like, get out of that room. Like, it was very much like that in Sex in the City. She's like, you can't be.

[A]

Wow. Nobody ever told me to leave the room for any television show.

[B]

I bet you read Zane books in school.

[A]

I did. Not in school, but I did read them.

[B]

Being funny.

[A]

No, I read them and I. I don't think my parents knew. What. I just, like. I don't think my parents knew what was going on in Zane Books, but I did.

[B]

That's crazy that you watched the show as a child.

[A]

I did. I did. I did. And there was a lot of sex in it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It was on Showtime. I know.

[B]

It was Madden.

[A]

Yeah, there'.

[B]

That's why my mom kicked me out of the room.

[A]

Wait, you know what? This. Because there was so much sex in it. This must have been something I was sneaking to watch.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because no, my parents weren't just gonna watch something with sex in it. No, not with me. Not with me. No. And it was pretty blatant sex. And I definitely remember that. And so I must have been watching it. And I was definitely like a really horny little kid. So that makes sense.

[B]

Okay, great. I love that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this is.

[A]

This was.

[B]

I just remember that show because Boris Kojo's fine.

[A]

It. Was he in it?

[B]

He was. He was in like later seasons. He was like recurring in season one and came back later. I don't. He's not a character in the movie, but he is a character.

[A]

Yeah. In the show.

[B]

And I say fine. I don't know. He is fine. He. I was gonna say is he just light skinned, but I think he's actually.

[A]

I think he's attractive. Yes. Boris Kojo is definitely an attractive man. Yeah. He has a good face, a good bald head, which a lot of people don't. A lot of men don't.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. He's like bald in the way that you don't notice it.

[A]

Oh, 100. 100. I can't imagine him with hair. I feel like he would look crazy.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Okay. It has a star studded cast. The movie we have Vanessa Williams as Terry, Vivica A. Fox as Maxine, Nia Long as Bird, Michael beach as Miles, Makai Pfeiffer Lim, Brandon Hammond, Ahmad the little boy. Jeffrey D. Sams as Kenny, Gina Rivera Rivera as Faith. And Irma P. Hall as Big Mama.

[B]

I. The name Gina Rivera sounds so familiar, doesn't it? I don't know why that sounds so familiar, but I don't like looking at Faith. I don't recognize now fate.

[A]

Looking at Faith I did recognize.

[B]

I don't. But I. Her name sounds mad familiar. Why? What else is she in? Why do I know her?

[A]

Shoot, let me see.

[B]

You know, because, like, obviously that name is something, but like, thinking of that character, I'm like, that doesn't ring any other bells for me.

[A]

What else was she. And she was in Showgirls in 95 Saints and Sinners. The closer. That's what I'm saying.

[B]

I don't know why her.

[A]

The Temptations in 1998. The Great Debaters in 2007.

[B]

That's not girl.

[A]

Oh, you didn't watch the Great Debaters.

[B]

I did watch the Great Debaters, but I didn't pull her Out. She wasn't Jessie or Juliet or whatever the girls. What was that girl's name? Is it Jesse? What is that girl's name?

[A]

Her name is Jussie.

[B]

No, Jesse's the brother, Jesse's the criminal.

[A]

Journey.

[B]

Journey. She's not Journey.

[A]

I'm dead serious. Like, her name is Jussie the damn.

[B]

It's not. You know what it is?

[A]

What?

[B]

I'm thinking of Chita Rivera, who is a like a famous Broadway. Like, like she's. Never mind. She's totally different.

[A]

Yeah. It doesn't anything to me.

[B]

Ignore me.

[A]

Anyways, I had so many thoughts while watching this film. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

When did you rewatch. When was the last time you.

[A]

I rewatched it today. I think before this I had watched it maybe like 5ish years ago and I wasn't fully locked in. We might have. Cuz I remember. Actually I think we did.

[B]

I think I hadn't seen in a long time and I remember watching it recently and I. Who did I. And I think it was.

[A]

I think, I think we might have watched it like five years ago and you know, we'd be talking through stuff, so we might, we really might not have.

[B]

It might have been me and you watching with your mom and she probably hated.

[A]

That's when she was cussing us out. That's when she was cussing us out because she was mad that we were talking through the media. She was like, and ain't nobody want to watch a movie with y'.

[C]

All.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Your mom anger kept said that 100%. I think talking through a movie, it adds.

[A]

Why would I watch it with people if I wasn't going to talk through it? I could watch it by myself. If I wasn't going to talk through it.

[B]

I would just go along.

[A]

It doesn't make any sense.

[B]

Thank.

[A]

What's the point anyways?

[B]

Yeah, sorry. But yeah, I, I. You said you just rewatched it. I still don't. I think like, I know I've watched it within the last couple years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I, yeah. Like revisited a lot of like the scenes and so it brought back memories.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I too have lots of thoughts where I'm like it. This is how a positive representation of black Heavy quotation.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm like, you know what I think people. You know what I think it is more so it has a really pleasant vibe. Like the, like the vibe of the movie. Like the way that it's scored the soundtrack. It's very pleasant. And I think people are kind of conflating that with positive Representation of black.

[B]

Family maybe that, like, nobody was, like, directly on drugs, you know, I mean, like. Like, no one on drugs.

[A]

I'm trying to think.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

Like, sold drugs.

[B]

And even that was, like, lightly suggested. I don't think he said it. I think. I think he said stuff.

[A]

He did say stuff. That's what I'm saying.

[B]

Actually says drugs.

[A]

What else would he be selling?

[B]

But what I'm saying. But that's what I'm saying.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There's no direct. There's, like, no direct. And even that feels like it's a part of his past. So it feels like maybe that is the other angle of it. They're like, a lot of black movies now. Or not. Black movies in film throughout history have been, like, directly involved with someone being, like, on drugs. And I guess technically nobody is even. No one's, like, a prostitute.

[A]

Well, someone's a stripper. Faith. Is she? Yeah, she's a. She was a stripper. She was a stripper. She was a stripper. And then she's like, I want to be a dancer. And she's like, no, not like that. Like, I want to be a real dancer now. Like, which.

[B]

Okay, let's not Shade stripper.

[A]

No, not at all.

[B]

No. I know you're not. I met her. I'm talking about face. I'm like, some of those girls be up there. You haven't been to a good strip club. I'm telling you, they'd be up there doing art.

[A]

In fact, I watch Hustlers recently, so good cardi B. Premiere stripper. I said, oh, she. She's in it. And she's.

[B]

Cameo. No.

[A]

Yeah. I would say maybe a little bit more than a cameo. She's in, like, a couple scenes. Okay. Yeah. And she. She, like, speaks a couple times.

[B]

Is Lizzo in the movie also?

[A]

A little bit. I would say, a little bit above a cameo.

[B]

Are they both strippers in the movie?

[A]

Kiki Palmer's a stripper in it. Lizzo.

[B]

Sorry. The whole point is that they're all strippers. Everybody's a shipper. Okay.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

Not about.

[A]

Anyway. Soul food. Food. Soul food. The. The. The writing, the acting, the directing is exactly what Tyler Perry thinks he's doing. That's exactly what he thinks he's doing.

[B]

Wow. Yes, 100.

[A]

Yes, 100.

[B]

Even down to, like, the light skin. Say, like. Like it.

[A]

Like, everything. All of it.

[B]

That's. I know. This was, like, on his vision board.

[A]

You know for a fact. She manifested. Enchanted over this movie.

[B]

Is Medea Big mama. Yes, but I mean. Yes, Wait, directly? Yeah, I'm saying, has he ever, like, referenced that? Like, does she ever, like, lose her limbs or anything? Big mama don't lose no damn. Or she does. She gets no Medea.

[A]

Oh, Medea. No, Medea can't. Medea's a gun toting.

[B]

You know, that's what I'm saying. Medea feels way too violent to be big mama.

[A]

Okay, so, you know, like, the term Madea is actually Madeira.

[B]

Mother deer.

[A]

Like, yeah. Which I think is like an offshoot of, like, mother deer. Yeah, my dear. Like, Like a. Like a pleasantry for grandmother.

[B]

So she literally is like the adult. Of course.

[A]

You know what I mean? It's exactly.

[B]

I've never.

[A]

So, yes, and. But no.

[B]

But, yes, but like, but also. But he's then making it, like, is he just, like, scary moving? So, like, is that.

[A]

Yes. Scary movie soul food.

[B]

That's what all of this is.

[A]

Whoa. That's exactly what it is. That's so real.

[B]

Honestly, does that make me like his work more?

[A]

No, not me personally. Not me personally. I'm gonna. I'm gonna say no to that. But that's just.

[B]

Wow. Okay.

[A]

Me.

[B]

I. Yeah, okay, sure.

[A]

Now, have you ever watched your family fall apart when, like, everybody comes together?

[B]

What a question for a podcast. Have you ever watched your family.

[A]

Have you ever watched your family fall apart? But, like, you know what I mean? Like, when. When the whole family comes together. At least my family. Let me speak for my own family job.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

When my whole family comes together for, like, the holidays or something, the likelihood that something sets it off and that we don't speak again until the next holiday is seven out of ten.

[B]

Seven.

[C]

Maybe.

[A]

Maybe six and a half, but yeah, that is. Okay. Super likely.

[B]

You know what? I. What happened? No, wait, hold on. I'm not gonna buy. What do you mean? Give me an example of a time that you went to a dinner. You're like.

[A]

Like somebody just takes it too far. And what way?

[B]

Like, Nana's cooking. You have mashed potatoes, ham hocks, greens, beans, potatoes, yams. All those people are eating. And it's like, I made it all that.

[A]

And then it gets into. I'm trying to think. It gets into something like, so you think a man is supposed to care about you deeply as a person and not just. You know what I mean? Like something ridiculous.

[B]

Yes. A man.

[A]

You think a man's supposed to really spend his time.

[B]

Who's saying this?

[A]

An uncle.

[B]

Okay. He's talking to you or talking to a woman?

[A]

Talking to me. A woman saying.

[B]

You think a Man should care about.

[A]

You think a man is supposed to deeply, like, be worried about you and care about you and also support the house and blah, blah, blah, blah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I don't know what to tell you about that, babe. You know, it's always something like that.

[B]

Okay. And then it's like, I don't want to be around it.

[A]

And then it's just like screaming and yelling and. And yada, yada. So when Terry and Maxine kept getting into it, because Terry was like, I'm a lawyer. And Maxine was like, also, can we talk about.

[B]

Terry did not have to keep throwing that in their damn faces. I'm like, all right, girl.

[A]

No, she really did it. And this is. I'm a Terry apologist for the most part.

[B]

I agree. No. Oh, we will get to Terry. I do think justice for Terry.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. Should we just get to the characters now?

[B]

Well, I. Yes, but to answer the question, family falling apart. No, I. So were you also involved? I. As a kid, my family's Thanksgivings were always at my grandparents, siblings.

[A]

So it was just all your grandparents, siblings.

[B]

Right. So it was like, my direct uncle was like, he lived in Texas. He was never home. So it was always. Me and my brother were the only two kids.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then there was just a bunch of, like, gener. Two generations removed. So it's just a bunch of old people.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so, no, there was never real drama. It was like, oh, my God, who's drooling? Like, wow. I'm like, people kind of barely coherent.

[A]

I'm done. Like, I wish we had more drama.

[B]

I would have loved a. A table being thrown. I would have loved, like, oh, yeah, that was gaming matches.

[A]

I would have loved it. Like, flipping over tables type.

[C]

Were you.

[B]

Little Ahmad? Like, were you running around, like, listening? Because he was also very involved in these.

[A]

He was really involved. Like, and he was so mature. Like, he under. He had a good understanding. Like, he was really mat.

[B]

He was lovely crazy. Also a sign of trauma.

[A]

It is definitely.

[B]

No little kid should be that mature.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

Agree.

[A]

A mod was way too mature for his age. But n. I wouldn't say I was a mod. Yeah, no, I was. I wasn't a mod.

[B]

You weren't wrapped up in. He was, like, involved in the. Like, they were confiding in him.

[A]

I know. The adults confiding in him. That is traumatizing.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, I don't need to know this. I shouldn't know this. I shouldn't know that. My. My dad cheated on my.

[A]

Well, he didn't really know. Yes, yes, yes. I'm thinking. I'm thinking about Terry getting cheated on.

[B]

How old was a mod. I don't remember how old he was.

[A]

I don't. It's not clear. I would estimate he's probably around 10.

[B]

I. At 10 should not have the context that my mom stole my dad from my aunt. I should not know.

[A]

Oh, I would have that context.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

He's not an only child, but, like, I feel like only children just know a lot about their families. Damn.

[B]

Yeah. I was like, I thought he wasn't only child. There was a little girl, but I didn't know. Was that his sister? Did they have two kids?

[A]

I believe the mom had another child. In the beginning, he's, like, going over everybody, and they don't appear anymore.

[B]

He does.

[A]

He's pregnant, and then he taught. He references a sibling, and that girl's gone. But, like, yeah, I'd never see that sibling again. And, you know.

[B]

And also, why was he. Sorry, I have so many questions. Yeah, because he was always at somebody's house.

[A]

He was.

[B]

And I'm like, I was not in my office.

[A]

This made me feel jealous, though, because it really feels like now. That was actually a good part of the movie. I'm like, wow, you really are being raised in a community where you could. Like, all your aunts are like, oh, you're here tonight. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Like, they're not like, why is this child in my house? Or, like. You know what I mean? Like, because imagine you come home from work and you weren't expecting your nephew, and you're like, why are you here? Like, what's up?

[B]

Oh, wait. I don't think I remember him being. Popping up. I thought he went to Terry's high read. Oh, I. And the way. I mean, granted, it's been a couple years since, like, I've, like, like, seen. Seen it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember him going to Terry's house, but I don't remember him popping up. It seemed more of, like, a. Oh, Ahmad's gonna be at my house tonight.

[A]

There was one scene because I just watched it today, so it's fresh. But there was one scene where she's, like, getting off of work, and they're in the kitchen, and she's like, are you here tonight? And he's like, yeah, okay. And she's like, okay.

[B]

Or that is when he's in the.

[A]

Shop with Bird, and she's like, but he.

[B]

To me, I understand. He works, like, not works There. But, like, you know, he worked at the.

[A]

Like, he. He's being babysat, but he's, you know.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which makes sense.

[A]

But I'm like, yeah, I wasn't raised like that.

[B]

Oh. I mean, to me, I do think going, like, popping up at a house and then being like, are you here tonight? That feels.

[A]

I kind of like it.

[B]

I, as an adult, would have questions. What do you mean you're here tonight? The fact that we don't know where that sister is and the fact that he keeps popping out. He knows too much. That makes me worry about Maxine and Kenny. What the is going on in that house? Why does Ahmad not have boundaries? He needs a routine. He got homework. Okay, let's go.

[A]

That's super fair.

[B]

That is funny, though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like Ahmad was just much more mature than I expected to be.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

No, we can go through each character.

[A]

I'm down. Okay.

[B]

Or we can just go straight into why Terry was right.

[A]

I have. Let's go. Let's. Let's go into each. Let's do the characters. Okay. So we'll talk about Terry first. So Terry is played by Vanessa Williams. She is a lawyer. She's married to.

[B]

His name is Miles. Miles.

[A]

She's married to Miles. He is also a lawyer, but he has aspirations of being a musician. He plays in a band with his.

[B]

Friends and calls friends being Baby Face, Casey and Jojo and Edmonds.

[A]

Yeah, and the Edmonds. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, okay. Casual.

[A]

He plays in a band.

[B]

It's a.

[A]

It's a lot of people in that band. You know what I mean? Especially for, like.

[B]

For what they're doing. Like, it's, like, jazzy, isn't it jazz? Yeah. Is it jazz? Is that what it is?

[A]

It's not jazz. It's not jazz. It's R B. But, like, when is.

[B]

Yeah, there's too many singers, you know?

[A]

I mean, it's not like a boy group. It's not boy. Some men. It's nothing like that. It is like. Like he's playing the keys. Keyboard.

[B]

Yes, he's on the keys.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But so it does feel like a band in the traditional sense of the word.

[A]

Bang. Quite literally. It feels like. Right. It doesn't feel like a recording group. It doesn't feel like in, like, oh, this is a group. Feels like a band.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I am in this band with these two singers. I am the person who makes the music. The actual music.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I mean, he has a studio in their house, which also blows my mind.

[A]

Faith In.

[B]

Okay, well, we don't. Okay, well, to be fair, Terry was not supportive.

[A]

She wasn't.

[B]

She didn't go to his shows.

[A]

She didn't.

[B]

And maybe he was unhappy. I'm not saying this is his fault. It's not.

[A]

No, he wasn't. He wasn't happy. And I do feel like there's nuances, right? I know there's the side of tick tock right now that's like cheating is the worst possible thing you could ever do to a human being. And you are the dev. The spawn of Satan yourself. And you deserve people. The death penalty people are. Is really deep projections going on. It's deep projections. It's insane. And I get it. I get that it's a moral issue and that you can't be friends with the cheater and all the stuff. Okay. You can't be friends with the cheater. I'm saying. Not me.

[B]

You. You. Okay, I'm taking.

[A]

Okay. But I do feel like Terry was making some grave mistakes that was going to come to a head one way or another.

[B]

And I do now, again, nuance, because even her taking it out, in some ways, it's like she was also dealing with a lot of trauma from her family and a lot of pressure from her family, which. Which bled into her marriage.

[A]

So there was certain things she needed to work on.

[B]

And I think some of her distrust to her family led to her dis. Trust. And also her. Literally, her high school boyfriend is still in the family. She has lots of trauma because he.

[A]

Cheated on her with her own sister. And no sister she couldn't get along with.

[B]

And no one's seemingly. I mean, obviously we don't know all the story because it's not in the movie. But I'm like, we're fine. We're just fine with him being here. We're fine with her doing that. Big Mama didn't seem to reprimand her for that at all. I agree.

[A]

Not enough. Enough. They talking about. She said Big Mama in the movie says something like, let old business lie or something like. Like, don't talk about that anymore. Like, whatever. What do you mean? What do you mean that still here, though? How am I supposed to let it lie when he's still here? It'd be different if she had did it when we were kids. He's gone.

[B]

He's here.

[A]

They have children. I have to see him every Sunday.

[B]

Yeah, every.

[A]

Because you for Sunday. Me being this house for Sunday, I pay for solely by my mother effing self. And ain't y' all mad that I keep saying, I'm a lawyer. I'm a lawyer. I am. Because I.

[B]

Who's paying?

[A]

Because who has to fund it?

[B]

Right?

[A]

And then.

[B]

So right now I'm feeling Terry's energy because now I understand why I'm not supporting my husband's dreams. You understand? I can't.

[A]

I'm the. I'm the breadwinner for. And to be fair, he had his own money. They shared a bank account. And he takes out $5,000 in the beginning of the movie in order. What?

[B]

Because they share one. But I'm pretty sure she was like, but remember, only this much is yours.

[A]

She gives such a specific number, too. She said, Only 31,106 of the dollars are yours and don't.

[B]

And not a penny more.

[A]

I said, see? And Terry, this is why you got cheated on. Look at how ugly that is. He said, if I want to take $5,000 out of my bank account, my money that I made, I will. She said, well, only 31,106 of it is yours. Okay.

[B]

And that's mine, so.

[A]

And which means five is still mine. Right. Okay. She was. She. She was tripping in her relationship. She was tripping.

[B]

True. I agree. I agree.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think she was doing anything wrong with her relationship, but she. Yeah, she wasn't doing it. Yeah, she was tripping her relationship. She was doing stuff wrong. Yes. But it makes sense in context of her being the sole person providing for an entire big ass family, too. On top of that, she said, y' all think I'm the atm.

[B]

Truly. Well, because, like, I think. Look, didn't she also. I know she at least did the beauty shop that Bird opened. She bought that.

[A]

Yes. She gave her a loan. Which for. Come on. Saying she gonna pay her back.

[B]

I like. I. You. I mean, I don't know. I remember my mom gave me loans before, girl.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, well, I guess at this point, as an adult, I'm sure I have given back in other ways.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But like, when she gave.

[A]

Yeah. You know, she knew she was right at the end of the day, like, so something.

[B]

I think as your sister, if I'm giving you money, even if it is a loan. Yeah, I know I'm not. I would not give it to you without I'm giving it to you understanding that this is probably not coming back to me.

[A]

Right. Right.

[B]

But either way.

[A]

Okay, so we're team Terry. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I think for the most part. Team Terry.

[A]

For the most part Team Terry. She's a little sink. She's a little. She' stuck up.

[B]

She stuck up in a way that I like. I. I'm not gonna add. I do prefer. I. I know people have a problem. I was not a Jack and Jill Black. I wasn't. I know people. I wasn't. I was not. But I understand that the concept of. Or I've met them and I'm like.

[A]

I know that this creature and I.

[B]

They're my favorite kind of snake. I don't. There's just something predictable about it.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

It's something that I'm like, okay, it's a Real Housewives. It's very real Southern, so Real Housewives coated. It makes me laugh. So I like that kind of snake left.

[A]

I like it not in person. I like it as entertainment, but not like on an interpersonal one to one level. I'm like, yeah, you going to have to get the hell away from me. Yeah, you going to have to get the hell on because you're getting on my nerves.

[B]

I feel that. I feel.

[A]

And that's not everybody that did Jack and Jill, obviously.

[B]

No, no. When I say Jack and Jill Black.

[A]

That is a type.

[B]

Yeah. Not everyone who did it.

[A]

That's Jack and Joe Black. T. Yeah. Not black people who did Jack and Jill.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know who you are. You do, you.

[A]

And if you don't know, it's probably, you know, joking.

[B]

No, the thing about it, I think Jack and Jill Black tms are proud to be.

[A]

That's. That is.

[B]

They know they are.

[A]

That is a fact. That is a fact.

[B]

But yes, she is very that. And she's stinking that way. And I think it's so interesting that they, the sisters all feel. They feel like very distinctly different. And.

[A]

Yes, they do. They do. Yeah.

[B]

We both have siblings. I don't feel like I'm that different from my brother. Me and my brother are different in certain ways where, like, I think I'm much more extroverted than he is. But I feel like in terms of like, priorities or like sensibilities, we're very similar. And so I'm just surprised that the sisters feel vastly different. Like, I feel like they grew up in different houses.

[A]

To me, no, that's super fair. And as someone who identifies an only child has an older brother who did, in fact grew up in a different house. Me and my brother are a little bit more similar than these girls are, I would say, but also don't have sisters. There might be some level of competitiveness also. My brother's 11 years older than me, you know, What? I mean, like, so maybe there might be some level of competitiveness there, I guess.

[B]

Yeah. I wasn't considering three sisters raised under. I mean. Well, I mean, I guess effectively a single mom because big mama, we learned to find out that dad was not alcoholic, he was a gambler, so probably wasn't around a lot. And I imagine that there's also just, like, when you're the oldest sister, you are taken care of. Whereas, like, me and my brother, two boys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We probably. We just.

[C]

Just.

[B]

It's different rules.

[A]

It's different. It's totally different. Yeah. Expectations are different. Yeah. Nobody expects y' all to be like, oh, best friends. Like, oh, up your brother's ass. You know? Like, I feel like sisters, they're just like, this expectation of a really, really deep bond that doesn't always form. That's fair.

[B]

That's fair. So I can see. I can see how they then end up differently because.

[A]

Right.

[B]

In some ways, you rebel.

[C]

But.

[B]

Yeah, whatever.

[A]

Yeah, very much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And then, of course, I mean, you took my man.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And so let's, like. Like, okay, yeah, we're different. And also, I don't. With you. Yeah, you took my man.

[B]

And I had to see this every. I'm not nice to him.

[A]

I'm not. I'm not gonna. One. First of all, you took. The. Second of all. I still have to support your ass, though, with my man.

[B]

You took my man, and now I'm paying for you and that to live. Actually, I get her anger.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Why does she talk to any of them?

[A]

I actually. She's really. Yeah, she's really nice. She didn't have to. She especially didn't have to support the them.

[B]

I hope the sequel is Terry living in the French Riviera.

[A]

Like, single.

[B]

No, like Tracy Evis Ross style.

[A]

She also doesn't have a happy ending in the end. Again, her.

[B]

Oh, they break up.

[A]

They break up. They don't get back together. She, her husband, her cousin. Her cousin, who last she heard, had gone to jail before she reappeared. The cousin before she reappeared. In the current, you know, movement movie, they reference a time where she went to jail and Big mama had to put the house up in order to get her out of jail. So, like. Okay, yeah, like, you're a horrible person. And then she doesn't even get her happy ending. She. They just break up.

[B]

And also, the cousin is still around, so.

[A]

Exactly. And the family gets a happy ending because she still gets to be around.

[B]

The goddamn family, but she's not with the. The Husband goes away. Right. If I remember correctly, I don't think Miles.

[A]

He still comes around every now and again.

[B]

Right. Because he's family best. But, like, he's not. They are not together.

[A]

No, they're not together.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, like, I. As. As Terry, you consistently are doing wrong to me.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then making me sit in the drama.

[A]

Isn't it crazy?

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's actually.

[B]

It's very gaslighting.

[A]

I agree. And then when I say, hey, yeah, so I don't even really with y'. All. So since. Since mom has passed away, let's sell this house. Because I don't. We don't need a joint asset. We don't need to, like, figure things out. I'm the one that's paying for it entirely. Let's go ahead and sell it. And y' all gonna cuss me out. No, we're not selling my mama's house. You're not selling mama's house because you don't have a saying this. Because I run her estate. Because I'm the only one who has anything right.

[B]

So what are we talking about?

[A]

So what are you talking about? We're not.

[B]

You're correct.

[A]

And then Maxine talking about, well, I went to a lawyer, and I had a lawyer draw up baby.

[B]

I would have punched her in her.

[A]

I will knuckle sandwich you up so bad.

[B]

Like, you know, I am a lawyer.

[A]

Come on. You went to a lawyer. You think the lawyer you hire gonna do better than me? For me. Against me, for me? All right. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Insane.

[A]

And then we have Maxine. I don't really know what Maxine does.

[B]

I feel like Maxine's like, oh, yeah, wait, I guess. What is her job? I think her job is mom. I don't.

[A]

She perhaps. I think she's stay at home mom. Yeah. Which, to be fair, is a very, very valid job to me.

[B]

I. In the real world. But I'm saying, how you a stay at home mom when Ahmad is over at my school? So not only am I paying for your life, but I'm also doing your job.

[A]

I don't give a pregnant you in that bab. She's pregnant. And it seems like, oh, she has.

[B]

A baby halfway through the movie.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And it seems like, you know what? At least for Maxine, it seems like her and her man are in a really good spot. They seem to be the only ones that are in a good relationship.

[B]

Sure. Yeah.

[A]

I love that for her. I like that there's one family Situation that seems like it is good representation.

[B]

It is. Yeah. Except for the backstory, but other than that. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Right. Which is like high school, I was gonna say.

[B]

You know what I mean? So like it is. There's a possibility that you didn't have to steal him and you still ended up, you know.

[A]

Exactly. Right. So happy for Maxine. She seems fine. Yeah. And is she the oldest? I thought Terry. Was Terry the oldest?

[B]

Actually, I don't know. Unclear. Terry is the, like, I guess emotionally oldest. But you're right, actually, I'm unclear on who is older.

[A]

I don't. Soul food, sisters, birth order.

[B]

No, I think Terry was older.

[A]

Could you imagine your man getting stolen by your little sister?

[B]

I think that is what happened. That kind of.

[A]

Terry's the oldest sister. Yes. Maxine's the middle sister and Bird is the third youngest.

[B]

To me, getting stealing by your younger sister makes more sense. Isn't that always how it happens?

[A]

It's worse to me for some reason. Yeah. If that feels degrading to me. Like my little sister. You left me for my little sister.

[B]

The younger model that to me makes that to me. I guess in my brain that makes sense. I guess not.

[A]

When we're reading. I'll beat you. I will beat you to. You would have been better off, like, left me for the. For the younger. Much younger.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, whatever. Like my young. Like two years ago, bludgeoning you actually.

[B]

Wearing my goddamn hand me down. Hello.

[A]

Hello. I made that.

[C]

Literally.

[B]

You see everything here?

[A]

That's us.

[B]

Who do the she thinks she is? I don't con very much.

[A]

Very much. But Max seems like she has a good life overall. Yeah, I think.

[B]

I think she's annoying in terms of how she deals with her sisters. I think she's a little. Pick me. Like, I think she's still like.

[A]

I think the way she cooks. You don't like women that cook.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

Oh, because you're jealous cuz you can't cook. Yeah.

[B]

I. I want nothing more than to be barefoot and pregnant.

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

I do get that from you.

[A]

That's. No, you do get picked.

[B]

I. A little bit. A touch. No, I don't. I feel like. I guess it's just like the native and maybe it's because a man wrote this movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think the way that they discuss manhood and like. Yeah, because like the fact that, I mean, I guess this isn't Maxine's fault, but like when Lim and Kenny. Kenny. When they're having a convo about like, you can't be a man and lay around the house. Like, they go, even if you're doing the dishes, fixing the carburetors, taking the trash, it doesn't matter.

[A]

Lazy. Okay? I said so we're all aligned.

[B]

No, I'm joking. I'm joking. Oh, well, sorry, cuz, but I think because one, you're telling her. Him to lie about not having a job, right?

[A]

You're telling him. So. So just for context. Yeah, I mean, y' all know it if you're watching the episode, but essentially, Lamb loses his job. Instead of telling Bird that he loses his job, he goes over to Kenny's house, right?

[B]

Yes. And he's explaining like, oh, I lost it. I don't know what to do. I think he's asking for help.

[A]

He's asking him to help finding a job. And Kenny's like, okay, we'll find something for you. You. But in the meantime, but in the meantime, don't tell Bird because, you know, don't let you. You can't let. Only. Only females can lay around the house.

[B]

They didn't say females, but, you know, 20, 25, 100.

[A]

100. If only females get to lay around the house. Men. Yeah, they gonna stay.

[B]

Feels crazy to me because I'm like, they.

[A]

Because they.

[B]

They literally do describe what being a staying home mom is, but they still see it as laying around the house. I'm like, so you understand that being a stay home mom is a job, but you. But you degrade it to house.

[A]

That's the problem is that you don't.

[B]

See it as a job.

[A]

The problem is no matter what I do, I'm still going, yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, probably because if you were at home, you wouldn't be doing.

[A]

Stay at home mom. Oh, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't. You wouldn't, you wouldn't. Yeah, you wouldn't. I guess that whole conversation really did get on my nerves.

[B]

It did. It was very annoying and also just very. It just felt very boy. And also because it didn't feel like it came like, I think in 2025, it will be written where at least the author of the, like, the writing is self aware. They're like, like, he's making fun of these people. I don't think that that was written.

[A]

No, it wasn't. Earnest. It definitely felt earnest. 1 and 2. I feel conflicted about that theme, the black manhood theme of the entire movie, because on one hand, I don't feel like there was enough media at this time that humanized black women. I mean, black men.

[B]

Sure, sorry.

[A]

There was not enough media at the time that's. That humanized black women.

[B]

I mean, to be fair. Both.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Both.

[A]

There was not enough media at the time that humanized black men. And I do feel like this kind of chipped away at that. Yeah. Like, you know the parts where they're talking about not being able to do anything without being seen as a lazy or the white man system being set up in a way that if you get out of jail, then you know.

[B]

And actually a valid.

[A]

Very valid, very true, true.

[B]

Yes, comma, but however, you know.

[A]

And then on the other hand, I'm like, okay, but what is the moral of the story? Is it that no matter what you do as a black man, you can't win? Because black women are impossible? Because we have Lamb talking about he can't. He can't be vulnerable with her because she's gonna think that he's a lazy. And then we have Miles be vulnerable and tell he wants to chase his dreams, that he wants to chase her dreams, and she's like, no. And then he ends up cheating.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

I'm like, so what are you saying?

[B]

I do. Yeah.

[A]

But about black women.

[B]

It's written by a man.

[A]

Not to make it about me, but, like, what are you saying about black women?

[B]

I mean, this also would be very Tyler Perry coated to be like.

[A]

You know what I mean? Exactly, exactly. That's kind of what it was giving. Yeah, it does.

[B]

Now that she's put it like that. It does suck that, like, in a lot of ways, all the women are villains except for, I guess, Big Mama, who kind of coddled them off at all.

[A]

She. She was a coddler husband. Along the masculinity lines, there's the portion where Maxine is talking to Bird about how Bird decides to go about getting lim a job.

[B]

Can we. We'll go there next. Because I have thought we are gonna disagree.

[A]

Okay. We'll go there next about how Bird decides to go about getting a little job, which is essentially asking her ex to get him a job, but like, in a. Having to use her sexuality in a way not have sex with them, but trying to, you know, you know. Right. Put a little something on him a little bit bit in order to get. And he doesn't. Lamb doesn't know that that's the reason why he got a job.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And when he finds out, he subsequently freaks the out, punches the man in the face Loses the job, goes freaks out at Bird.

[B]

Right. We'll get there.

[A]

And. And then. And then.

[B]

Unless he can.

[A]

Maxine, then Maxine is talking to Bird about all of that, and she's like, you got to let a man be a man. Because remember when Daddy, Their dad, who's now dead, was alive and he has gambling problem. He, like, gambled away all the money. Mama didn't say anything to him. She just handled her business. And so he could have his dignity or his pride. I can't remember which word was used. It's like, so he could have his dignity. She didn't say nothing. She just went and worked for the white people and did their laundry and scrubbed their floor. Whatever I said, is that the. Is that the solve?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, oh, yeah, you just. You just suck it up.

[A]

And.

[B]

But to be fair, obviously, in 2025, terrible, bad advice. Horrible. And through the lens of 2025. Bad. Bad.

[A]

It was really bad.

[B]

I do think, at the time. Yes. I legitimately, like, I know for just. My. My grandmother put up with a lot of. For my grandfather, certainly it wasn't financial stress.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it was like, he was out. He was on the streets.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like. And she knew.

[A]

And that is so common.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. And, like. But it was one of those things where, like, she stayed. And, like, I think there's a theme of, like, well, if you could have left. But, like, you don't. And you just kind of let him do his thing. And I'm like, I do think that was very common for that generation. So I. It makes sense. But I do think it's bad advice today.

[A]

You. And it's just always. It just speaks to the fact that it's always. And at this time in 1997, when this movie came out, it was way more normalized. But the burden of strength always falls on the black woman. Although media will tell you that the burden of strength is always placed on black men, or at least the loudness will tell you that. But.

[B]

But they're like, I gotta do. I gotta do so much.

[A]

You know what I mean? But in actuality, black women having to deal with the toxic masculinity imposed by men because they feel like they have all that pressure on them.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Is actually a testament of strength as well.

[B]

No, I'm with you. Yeah. It's like. It's like you.

[A]

You a burden.

[B]

Yeah. You are masquerading that you have this burden.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But then your masquerade of this becomes my burden.

[A]

And I'm quiet about it, right? I'm not even masking. I'm not with a flag. I just don't. I just do it.

[B]

Your performance of Burden becomes my actual burden, period.

[A]

That's actually exactly what it was.

[B]

Ready?

[C]

Go.

[B]

Knock, knock. Who's there? We got this with Mark and Hal. You knew this one. We can't put that out as an ad. We just did new episodes every week on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcast. Now it's hewn and rock. Hewn and rock. Yeah. Yeah. How do you hue something in rock with a chisel? There's only one hue in rock and it's Huey Lewis. And the news is we got this with Mark and Hal is available Every week on MaximumFun.org I walked right into that.

[C]

Need a gift for a Max Fun fan in your life? Or maybe you need some ideas to fill up a wish list of your own. Heck, maybe you just want to pick up something for yourself as a little treat. Well, the Max Fun Holiday Gift Guide is here for all of your gift giving and gift wanting [e-mail] giftguide of course, there's show merch like clothing, hats, bookmarks, stickers, even a candle. But there's also a bunch of other cool stuff made by your favorite hosts like comic books, graphic novels, music, art and jewelry. Go check out the gift guide and make sure you order soon so things get there in time for the holidays. MaximumFun.org giftguide.

[A]

So, you know, I felt, yeah, I felt torn about the way that masculinity was portrayed in the movie. Movie. I'm with you there in those ways. I'm like, I'm happy Black men are getting their moment and I definitely think they're speaking to important things from a black male perspective. And also I don't feel sticky as a Black woman in 2025 who's now, you know, in an adult relationship. Like, you know, I'm in a time where I'm like, oh, I can fully grasp this in a way that I have not ever been when I watched it before.

[B]

Yeah, it's definitely things like seeing the movie now. Like a lot of these relationships, a lot of people should be broken up.

[A]

Because big mama should have been left a daddy.

[B]

Like, yeah, like girl leave. You should like also like, cuz he had businesses and like, but then they became yours, I guess. Like you had to take these over.

[A]

Probably gambled them shits away, which is insane. She probably don't have the laundry mat and the, the whatever.

[B]

Yeah, like, yeah, if and then I guess then they pass that on to their daughters who are now again in these toxic relationships. And I guess maybe the reason she's. And I feel like there's also a level of like. But she's not toxic because she takes her place as a woman.

[A]

Whoa. The only one that's not in a toxic relationship.

[B]

She stays home. She takes care of the kids.

[A]

The one that stays home and takes care of the kids.

[B]

If you didn't want to go out and have business, well, whoa. That's what it is.

[A]

The one that's barefoot and pregnant all the time is. The one that is not in the toxic relationship is this. You know what a woman's place is? Pregnant.

[B]

Cooking fries.

[A]

Right, Cooking. And you know what? Again, I don't undervalue the importance of being a stay at home mom and being a homemaker. I feel like they're very valuable and underrated and difficult skills to acquire as someone who's raised by a stay at home mom.

[B]

I'm not doing it. That sounds. You know what I mean?

[A]

It sounds hellish to me. But I don't like the. The idea that this movie perpetuates it. That's the only way to be in a non toxic relationship. And that didn't even pay off for big mom mama. Oh, you know what? She worked, but she had to.

[C]

She did.

[A]

She wanted to keep a house over there. She wants to keep a roof over the. The heads. God. She had to go to work. Yeah. Ain't that about a. I do.

[B]

I don't know that there is a moral in this movie because when I.

[A]

Dug for one, it didn't look good. It wasn't looking good. The one that I found I didn't like.

[B]

Yeah. So I'm going to backtrack a little bit because I do want to get this in.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't think that bird was wrong. I'm sorry. I don't think she was wrong. If you need a job, and I know this man can get you a job. I also don't know what was. Sam. Was that the man's name? What was that man's name?

[A]

I don't remember.

[B]

Whatever. Light skinned man, light skin. He didn't seem that wrong to me. Unless he was actually a pimp, which.

[A]

No, I actually didn't. I couldn't understand their connection.

[B]

Oh no, he worked at the place where they worked. Yeah.

[A]

No, he wasn't a pimp.

[B]

I don't know. Oh, right. And well, I guess. Never mind. I need to do the math on 80k in because he did. But the way he threw 80k, I was kind of like, I mean, I know, but also, I don't know what 80k me in the 8. Sure. Different. Different time.

[A]

Definitely different time.

[B]

But I don't think it was weird of her. I do think, to me, taking the bracelet, I don't think it's that weird. I agree that going. Agreeing to go to dinner is a little weird. A little weird. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[A]

I think if I sit back and I think about it from Lim's perspective, he goes to jail trying to help his cousin. Assumedly, he's selling drugs.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Right. And. And I'm assuming he has to help his cousin because, like a lot of black people.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You got to help your family out. Whatever. Okay. He goes to jail for that. He does his time. He comes out, he gets a job. He has to lie on his application because he can't get a job being a felon. They find out he lies on his application, he gets fired. That puts him back as square zero. You fresh out, essentially, and you don't have a job. You have to figure out how to get a job. You can't put your job on your resume because they're going to say, well, why don't you have that job anymore? You have to explain to your fire for being a felon, blah, blah, blah, blah. You stay in. You stay in the hole. You're trying your hardest to find a job. It comes out that you don't have one. You've been trying to hide one. Hide it because you're shame. You feel shameful about it.

[B]

That's your first problem.

[A]

It is, it is definitely.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It comes out that you've been lying about it. And you tell your partner, I don't need your help because she. Because when it comes out that you got fired, she didn't. She didn't have a really nice. She didn't have a very nice response. Response, well, you can't keep it. You couldn't keep a job.

[B]

She wasn't kind.

[A]

She wasn't.

[B]

But also, you lied. I caught you sneaking around my mom's house.

[A]

But you see, her response wasn't, oh, you're lying. Your response. Her response was, you couldn't keep a job. You know what I mean? Which, which means maybe he was right, demoralizing, because he knew that that would be her response. And that was, in fact, her response. So. And so that being her response, his response is, I don't need your help.

[B]

Right. Because they you have told me that. That you've told me that I. Like, yeah. The way you're responding right now is telling me everything I need to know about receiving help from you. You're gonna hold it over my head exactly.

[A]

I don't need your help, okay? He keeps trying to get a job, trying to get a job. He gets one, he thinks, oh, my God, finally I get to relax at home, just have my, you know, my. My soon to be wife back, or my wife back in a normal way, only to find out that the man who you thought referred you for the job is not the man who referred you for a job. It's this random ass who comes in here flaunting how much more money than you he makes in your face, says your wife's name, you have no idea who this is.

[B]

And said she basically I. Basically all. But I.

[A]

And that definitely started. Oh, she used to have a brother screaming, oh, oh, okay. Antagonized the hell out of you, made you look stupid in front of your new job when you just was having.

[B]

A good day and I have to hurt you.

[A]

You know what I mean? And now. Yeah, I'm not gonna sit here unless you play in my face. Y. Yeah, so I smacked you and I lost that job to me smacking him, didn't.

[B]

I was like, I'm with you there.

[A]

No, yeah, I was definitely with him.

[B]

I was like, yeah, I feel like going to the beauty salon now. That's where I'm like, now where you.

[A]

Are at, where lim loses me, is snatching her up at work.

[B]

At work crazy.

[A]

My job, crazy. Cuz I'm the only one that got one in this motherfucker.

[B]

Somebody got to work.

[A]

Somebody got to bring something into this. Into this, right?

[B]

I'm leaving here with something right at.

[A]

The end of the day. So. So, yeah, you snatching me up, taking me into a bathroom, pushing me repeatedly, making me feel in fear.

[B]

Yeah. Now you're. This is.

[A]

Yeah, Limerick. You've lost me, buddy.

[B]

Is that his full name?

[A]

That's just what I decided. His name. Because what is lim?

[B]

I agree.

[A]

I don't know the L, E, M. Also I'm.

[B]

Because it's not even lim as in like A arm, like L, I, N, B. It's like limbs. L.M. limmy, Lenny Lemmy Limmy, Leonard Lemonard.

[A]

Limerick out. The Limerick.

[B]

Limerick is with the watch. Y, L, Y, M, I, R, C, Limbrick.

[A]

I mean, unless you spelled it L, E, M, R, I, C, K. You know what I mean? You can sell Limerick however you want to.

[B]

Yeah, no, he lost me there. Because it was just like oh now you're violent and this is scary also.

[A]

You know.

[B]

And did this. I don't know if the movie explains how the do we meet because if you were in jail and you just got out, why are we getting married? That also was on her.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. It was confusing.

[B]

I'm like how the do we meet and why are we just you fresh out and we're married. I don't know.

[A]

And how come the family doesn't know why you were in jail? Jail? Cuz we just got married. And now you have the dinner table for the first time asking why you're in jail. Yeah.

[B]

These are questions we should have asked before the proposal happened long time ago.

[A]

Who is that?

[B]

Who is fact. Who is.

[A]

And that's why you need to have brothers. Cuz there sisters like where are some damn brothers? And that's why Terry had to call up cousin blimp to come meet up L. Because they have no brothers.

[B]

Real. That's fair. That's fair.

[A]

And then Lynn wasn't playing that at the end of the day too. Lynn wasn't playing that.

[B]

That's why Lynn went back. Well and then Li goes back to jail.

[A]

Said I hate get off me.

[B]

I hate when a movie sets up a problem and then immediately solves it. Then goes back to jail. And then Terry's like got him out.

[A]

I got to get him out.

[B]

And I'm like. And then just. I'm like what?

[A]

I know what was.

[B]

I get. I guess I get it for a plot like it needed to move. But I'm like okay, this is just such a. What? She just makes a phone call. Call. That's. That's done pretty much. He's a felon with a gun.

[A]

He's a felon with a gun. Right. What do you mean right? But yeah, I understood. I do think that she was wrong question mark. Like I think she was in a gray area. I wouldn't be my. That I wouldn't find myself in. But I understand. I totally understand how she got there same.

[B]

I guess that's my thing is I'm like gray. Absolutely. I don't think I it crosses to wrong for me.

[A]

Or.

[B]

Or I'm like. I get it. I'm like. Because if I'm frustrated with you and I. And I. And then also I am not expecting him to do it is it went left because that guy then became an and did that thing to you. Had that not have happened this would have been. And that's where My brain is like, I'm doing this with the expectation that it is just going to go swimming.

[A]

But why do you have that bracelet on? Because he dangles the bracelet in front of her. He's like, I know you. Like, it's. It's a wedding gift. I know you. Nice. Like, nice things that he can't buy you this. So here you go. Put it on me.

[B]

I'm putting it on. That's correct.

[A]

Wearing the bracelet is crazy.

[B]

I hear you.

[A]

Yeah. I felt like that was insane.

[B]

Hear you. I do. I. Terry about this. Look at that guy. Terry. Terry came by the shop and said she was happy.

[A]

She was happy that I.

[B]

She, you know, she got a good silk press and we.

[A]

So we just did it.

[B]

That's. I don't know. Terry liked it. Yeah. What the do you mean?

[A]

That's fair. But, yeah, I wouldn't have made that. I would have made that choice. But I don't think, you know, she. She.

[B]

Yeah, she deserved to be assaulted. That's what, like, whoa. And also then I'm like, now we have to break up because this is, you know, this is telling.

[A]

And the way that they just get back together.

[B]

And again, the family. The family's way too calm with, like, things happening.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

We need to be very more like, whoa. This is a red flag.

[A]

There's a lot, mind you, and the. A plot point of the movie. One of the plot points is Lim didn't hit Terry. Like, it's like, oh, it was a big misunderstanding because. Because. Or Limb didn't hit Bird because Terry had to call cousin blimp because of a big misunderstanding. She thought that Lynn hit Bird.

[B]

If only. I didn't hit her, though. He locked me in a.

[A]

Because he didn't hit her with a ring shop.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

And literally pushed her against the wall repeatedly in that. Right in that little bathroom. Left her crying in there.

[B]

So was like, don't touch me. Don't talk to me.

[A]

I'm like, don't ever talk to me.

[B]

Oh, okay. Don't want me me. Don't talk to me.

[A]

Go ahead and free yourself.

[B]

That's exactly what she sounds like.

[A]

100%, actually.

[B]

But yeah. This movie also ends in a very silly way. The little boy lies to everybody. And, like, we're going to have. We have money. She has money hidden in the house. I guess it's not a lie. We don't know if it's a lie. Like, it's a rumor, but turns out to be true.

[A]

It turns out to be true also.

[B]

Because Uncle Bill, Pete locked away in this room, and then she dies. He's now downstairs, and then he's like, oh, what happened? Y' all didn't take Uncle Pete to the funeral.

[A]

Whoa. They didn't.

[B]

They didn't take him to the funeral.

[A]

That's so rude.

[B]

Or does he have dementia?

[A]

Yeah, he's like, not all there. They said, yeah, they said there's nothing behind the eyes is what they said.

[B]

Because he was asking questions. They go, no, Maxi's like, he's gone.

[A]

She's dead. They like, no, she. She's dead. And he's like, also, y' all put.

[B]

The house for sale up and his man is upstairs. Is anybody telling.

[A]

Terry said he was going to the home.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Terry said he was going to a.

[B]

Home, and she's not.

[A]

And they said, we're not sending Uncle Pete to the home. And she said, who's not? Who's not? She's like, who's not? Because you don't pay for nothing. She said. She said, the family. The family.

[B]

The family.

[A]

My husband. Hey, Terry. I feel you. And they said, we get it. Terry.

[B]

She's. I don't think she was wrong for running around with the night. Well, sorry. At the party was kind of crazy. She didn't have to go. The knife, it felt again, breaking point. I understand how we arrive, but I'm like, are you.

[A]

It felt unearned, like in the. In the movie. You know what I mean? Like, I think I understand how somebody would get to that breaking point. Of course, they didn't show. Exactly. Show us how she got there. It was a jump. Enough. It was a jump.

[B]

Bigly. For that character.

[A]

Yes. That character.

[B]

100% the way we've seen your character. Your break would be smaller. Exactly. It would be something more. More internal.

[A]

It would be more internal and it might be smart. It would be less physical. Yeah.

[B]

To me, it would be like a moment in like a. Like a.

[A]

Like you're taking the house.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like now you started.

[B]

The doors are locked.

[A]

Exactly. You changed them. Whatever.

[B]

Yeah, it's something.

[A]

Your name is actually the only one on the deed. He thought that y' all put it at, like, that type of stuff.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It wouldn't be a running around with a knife.

[A]

Right. But back to Ahmad, because he lies in the end, in order to bring the family all back together. Right. And that's why you need to stay in the kid's place, because there was too much stuff that he didn't know it had in there that wasn't supposed to be in there. You got. You got borderline abusers in there. You got the. That done cheated on. You know, you got the cousin there, too.

[B]

You don't know that. You don't know that. These people have been fighting and, like, trying to hurt each other. These don't want to see each other.

[A]

Right.

[B]

This cousin who just my husband, who is now.

[A]

Literally. And he doesn't know all that. And so he didn't just brought all these adults together. I'm gonna fix the family, because that's a Big mama will want. Stay in a child's place. You and Big Mom. Hello. Stay in a child's place.

[B]

Yeah, that was annoying.

[A]

Cut it the hell out.

[B]

And then you almost burned the goddamn house.

[A]

And then after Big mama told you not to put goddamn rags on. On there. But what I. What I can relate to about Ahmed is probably when I was about his age actually, is when Christmases and holidays at my family's house had fallen apart so much that they really stopped being a thing. So I understand the, like, I want to bring feeling of being like, oh, my God, like, are we really not about to do the thing that we always do? Like, is this going to be the first Christmas that we're really, like, not going to come together and this is, like, going to be weird like that. I get that. Being like, no, we need Sunday dinner back. Like, this is familial. Like, this has to resolve itself.

[B]

Families get through and.

[A]

And being a kid and not understanding that a lot of stuff won't resolve itself just by putting together in the same room. You know, like, there needs to be some amends, some restitution, and there's actual.

[B]

Work that needs to be done.

[A]

There's work that needs to be done, and nobody's done it, Especially not over the course of two weeks, Right. For the next Sunday dinner.

[B]

But you at 10, don't know that. You just.

[A]

You don't know that.

[B]

You. Magical realism. Like, just a dinner.

[A]

A dinner with, you know, a dinner. All they need. All they need just be in the.

[B]

Same room because you don't have the context that Big mama just swept under the rug. So that's why I didn't work a mod. A. A mod. Ah. I think that's why I didn't work big.

[A]

100%. 100%. She just swept things under the rug.

[B]

Also. Then Uncle Pete comes running down with his goddamn tv, and there's actually money.

[A]

In the back of the tv.

[B]

And now I'm. Now if I'm Terry, I'm actually pissed because I'm saying Big Mama made me pay taxes on this house, and you have money in the house. I'm pissed at everybody who.

[A]

Now I'm mad at Big Mama from beyond the grave. And that money's mine. We're not splitting that, are y'? All? Okay, we're not. We're not slitting that angry.

[B]

I'll be.

[A]

Whoa, Terry. Terry deserved. She deserved way more pov. You're Terry, when you walk up the stairs and you go over into Miles's studio and you see your cousin pressed up against the wall and your man's bare ass thrusting into her, what do you do?

[B]

Bursting the D door. Go. These the kind of high notes we hitting in here, huh? This the kind of music we making in this?

[A]

Huh?

[B]

Well, let me. Let me add some vocals. And then I.

[A]

Now I'm deal with a gun.

[B]

I'm not sending a mod away. I'm like, you know, Ahmad, look.

[A]

Yeah, look at.

[B]

Look at what your uncle's doing, right?

[A]

Ah. Talking about Ahmad. Turn around. No, you don't need to see this wedding.

[B]

You see?

[A]

No, he's going to see it.

[B]

No, he's going to see.

[A]

He's going to see it, actually.

[B]

You. Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

[A]

You know what? That's very fair, because I can't imagine doing what Terry does. She, like, sees it before Mod sees it. She, like, turns around really quickly. She's like, we have to go. And he's like, what? She's like, no, no, no. We have to go. So adult. I don't have that. I don't have that. And you guys are in a vulnerable position in the open.

[B]

You weren't even trying to hide it. Like, you're.

[A]

I feel like your penis is exposed.

[B]

Baby, cut it off.

[A]

Why not?

[B]

Why not?

[A]

I'm on your.

[B]

If you don't give a damn, I don't give a.

[A]

Hey, y'. All. In my house that I pay half the rent for this stand in my house? And this is.

[B]

Why is cousin Faith at my house?

[A]

Hello. Because, Terry, the only one with some goddamn money and space to have, like, immediately. She ain't okay, but. Okay, wait. I don't know if this is. This is probably not something you ever heard, but. Because I feel like this is probably a girl thing. Sure. My mom and black moms in general, I've heard them repeat, like, never let a woman stay in the house with your man.

[B]

Saying, I've never heard that, but sure.

[A]

And I've never believed. You know, I'm just like, okay. Like, I Don't have time for this. You know?

[B]

Like, it feels very.

[A]

You know, and it's like, no, it's not that I don't trust either of them. It's just that I don't want any confusion. I don't want. I mean, there to be any misunderstandings on one part. And.

[B]

And all I. I do hear the things that you're saying, but that's in that.

[A]

And that's exactly what this is.

[B]

Is.

[A]

That's fair. That's exactly what Faith was doing. You trying to help your cousin out after your cousin, then over your mom got on your nerves?

[B]

I feel like Faith feels so specific. I think any woman in general.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think I. I feel like it's a leap. Faith specifically. I'm like, well, yes, you have a history. You have a track record of doing questionable things. So I have a reason to be questionable of you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, but, yeah, that does vary. I've never heard that, but I can imagine.

[A]

Imagine.

[B]

I understand the sentiment. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But, yeah, I do think her crush out was valid. I don't think it was Terry's. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I think it was valid. I do think it was unearned.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By the character, specifically.

[A]

Whoa. Like, I do.

[B]

Yeah, I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She wouldn't do that.

[A]

Can we talk about the generational pressure to uphold tradition? So sorry.

[B]

That uphold tradition reminds me of my college song. We will beloy uphold tradition our school we host all the year we will be lo throughout our college years.

[A]

It's scary.

[B]

Fight for victory while we stand up and cheer. Let's hear it for the Bears. B.

[A]

Something about a white institution talking about uphold tradition just doesn't sit right with me.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Yeah. I don't like it.

[B]

We will. Oh, my God.

[A]

What year. What year did that school begin existing?

[B]

I think it was in the 19. No, maybe 18. It was 1904, I think.

[A]

Something like that. It's old.

[B]

I think it was. Was post Civil War.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, yeah, Post abolition. Abolishment of slavery. Is that the word? So I don't think they have slaves.

[A]

But they probably had.

[B]

They were segregated some.

[A]

Yeah, they probably had some deep. That's fair. The pressure. The generational pressure to uphold tradition because it feels like the tradition of Sunday meals. Also, we need to talk about Sunday meals. We'll circle back to it. Okay. We did.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

The generational pressure to uphold, like, Sunday meals or whatever seemed like it was important to Bird.

[B]

For what?

[A]

I don't know. But she had that scene where she had tried to cook the Sunday meal by herself after Terry and Maxine had fallen out. And the cornbread was burnt and charred and. And it was nothing. Looked good on the table.

[B]

Huh. I wonder if it was a little youngest sibling thing. You know, you're the baby and you're just like.

[A]

No, that makes sense. You kind of see the. The family with like rose colored glasses and the two oldest are like that. Yeah. Her. That's why I'm not coming to that. Okay. But yeah, I felt bad for her. But Big Mama kept that tradition going for a long time because they said it started in Mississippi, I think is where they originated from. And then, yeah, it was from the church elders all getting together after Sunday. You know, talking about.

[B]

About weird pastor who also, like, wanted to, like, touch on everybody weird. Which is a thing, I guess people do invite their pastors over. There was an old man who was in a couple of scenes.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He was talking about chick. He was talking about legs. He was like.

[B]

He was praying and like, for the.

[A]

Legs on this table and under. I mean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That trope was. Yeah. I don't. I don't love that trope. Not for a pastor. I mean, for anybody. But specifically.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. But Big Mama definitely kept that legacy going. It happened in Mississippi and then she brought it up to Chicago.

[B]

I feel like that.

[A]

And it feels like something that was important to her and therefore she hopes should be important to her kids. But it doesn't necessarily seem like it's that important to a lot of the kids at first. Obviously, they get back into it.

[B]

I was gonna say, I wonder if it's one of those things that, like, you. The older you get, the more. Maybe so this means something.

[A]

Maybe so. Because it seemed like Big Mama was willing to sacrifice herself for the betterment of the family every time.

[B]

Sure. I think.

[A]

And I'm not positive how admirable that is. I mean, it is admirable. I will say it is explicitly, obviously admirable. I don't know if that is something to aspire toward. I don't want to be the sacrificial lamb for.

[B]

I guess that because it's one of those things where it's like, in theory, everyone is sacrificing for the greater Good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Unfortunately, 100. Not what happens. But then again, it's double or sore. Worse. Like. But if not, no one does be. Be the change you want to see in the world.

[A]

That's so true.

[B]

So it's kind of that situation where I'm like. Because I Understand the sentiment of, like, I don't want to be the sacrificial lamb. But it's like, but if no one is, then no one.

[A]

Then no one is. But I'm saying, like, it seems like Maxine and Terry are okay with nobody being. But Bird isn't really that into the. You know, she's like, no, I want to keep this tradition. I don't care if you guys are mad at each other and whatever. And they're like, I don't give a.

[B]

About that.

[A]

No. Which.

[B]

I wonder if they were specifically just like, angry in the moment, though. You know what I mean? Yeah, they feel angry. Like, they feel angry and angry at each other. They had their own personal. They were going through that. I'm like, that explains that. But I. I don't know, because I don't think that they were like. I think they didn't want to give it. They didn't want to give it up at the time. Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But.

[A]

But they would get over it eventually.

[B]

I think eventually they would have to.

[A]

Their values, which is fair. Family is over.

[B]

Over. Truly think that that would be what it is.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Foe. That's what that stands for. Family of everything.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I didn't like the way you said.

[A]

Have you.

[B]

You've heard that Foe.

[A]

Not in, like, an earnest way.

[B]

I thought that rapper said that. Earnest.

[A]

They do, but not in, like, an earnest.

[B]

They're not being earnest.

[A]

In, like, a rap way. Not in, like.

[B]

I don't know. I. I think that they mean. I do think that they mean. Mean it. I don't think they mean, like, their family, like the traditional values of family, but I think they mean, like, my. Over everybody.

[A]

They do. They do.

[B]

Then what are you saying?

[A]

But fo is like, that feels. I can't explain it. Y' all know what I mean. Y' all know what I mean.

[B]

I don't. I. It feels like if you know what I mean. Comment foe.

[A]

You know what I mean? Comment foe.

[B]

Okay. Stupid.

[A]

Okay. Can we talk about the actual food, though?

[B]

Go for it. Because I. I have a controversial opinion. I don't like soul food. I.

[A]

So 1.

[B]

We talked about this a little bit earlier, and I mean the food, not the movie.

[A]

That is insane.

[B]

I. I thought this movie took place at Thanksgiving. It literally does not. Not a single holiday pops up.

[A]

Sure doesn't.

[B]

Sorry about that.

[A]

Not a holiday. Just Sunday dinners, which we also had in my. In my household for a time. We didn't always have it, but we had it like something you Know, in segments. Yeah.

[B]

I. I don't really like fried chicken. I don't. I don't. I don't. I start all these foods. I don't mind.

[A]

It doesn't like bone in fried.

[B]

I like chicken nuggets.

[A]

Chicken.

[B]

Yeah. I hate a chicken wing. Give me a nugget. Give me a nugget. It's so much more efficient. It's so, like, nice.

[A]

You want efficiency when eating. You're trying to have efficiency.

[B]

Yes. What are you saying?

[A]

I'm trying to focus on flavor.

[B]

I. I like flavor.

[A]

We are so. I don't. We are so different.

[B]

I like. Flavor is crazy. I enjoy. I just. When it comes to chicken.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I just want a chicken nugget or a chicken ch. Tender. I would prefer it. I would.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You can get the sauce better.

[A]

Ciao. Okay.

[B]

Okay, let's get. Let's get into the food.

[A]

Let's just play the game, please.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's Sunday dinner. You can only pick three for the table. In fact, for you, you can only pick one.

[B]

Sure. Because you don't even like none of this anyway.

[A]

Yeah. Fried catfish.

[B]

I immediately scoff. Like, okay, sure. No, chicken, don't.

[A]

Dumplings.

[B]

Is that a black thing?

[A]

Chicken and dumplings.

[B]

I don't think I know what that is. I understand. I understand the concept.

[A]

Chicken soup and dumplings. Like the biscuits that go in. It's like a chicken soup with biscuits that go in. Gary, do you know chicken and dumplings? Chicken.

[B]

Do you know what they are? Chicken and dumplings. I have.

[A]

Let me see the picture that comes up. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my God. I love chicken and dumplings. I'm like, I'm gonna make us that soon.

[B]

Because I have loved never, ever, ever. This is like chicken noodle soup. Never seen this in my life.

[A]

So it's fant. Fantastic. I'm gonna have my mom make some for Thanksgiving.

[B]

Biscuits.

[A]

Crazy. I mean, it's dumplings, but essentially you can use, like, a biscuit. Make a biscuit. Yeah. You can use, like, biscuits.

[B]

Okay. I've never had that. No.

[A]

Anyways, keep going. Cornbread.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Black eyed bees.

[B]

No, like, thank you. Same.

[A]

Greens, Mac and cheese.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yams.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Sweet potato pie.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Sweet tea.

[B]

Okay. Sweet tea is crazy.

[A]

You can only keep one of those. Which one you keeping?

[B]

Can you list them all again?

[A]

Fried chicken, chicken and dumplings, cornbread, black peas before.

[B]

Now it's fried chicken.

[A]

What is it? Why?

[B]

So what is it?

[A]

I decided it was fried chicken.

[B]

Chicken, chicken dumpling.

[A]

Fried chicken, chicken and dumplings. Cornbread, black eyed peas, greens, Mac and cheese, yam, sweet potato pie, sweet tea.

[B]

I guess I'm keeping Mac and cheese. I could pick three, but it's because.

[A]

I don't like a lot of things.

[B]

I. I love yam. I love a yam with a Mac and cheese, specifically.

[A]

Oh, my God. God. Okay. Oh, my God.

[B]

Actually, it's a little bit harder than I think because I also like sweet potato pie.

[A]

That. Which is yams. Damn near.

[B]

Okay, well, then, you know what? I'm gonna cut the yam. Just put it in a pie form. So you bust me with. In a pie, Mac and cheese, and then I think I'm gonna. I guess I'll keep fried chicken.

[A]

Okay. You know, I'm gonna remove black eyed peas from my.

[B]

Disgusting.

[A]

Because I would never eat that.

[B]

That's a. That's. Is red beans and rice a. A soul food thing?

[A]

Yes, I guess.

[B]

No, that's fair. It's never. It is. No, know. I don't. Don't. I was going to say ra. Not I was racist is what. But I was about to say was going to be racist, and I was a racist. I thought it was a Latino thing.

[A]

Rice and beans.

[B]

Just did not.

[A]

I mean, to be fair. Yeah. It is diasporic. It is a d. Work black thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Including black Latinos. You know, or, you know, Latinos. Anyways. Okay. If I had to pick. I'm picking fried chicken because.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[A]

Red beans and rice and greens.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's my.

[B]

That's crazy. I know. You don't do Mac and cheese. I'm surprised that I love.

[A]

I don't even like sweets. I don't like dessert. I don't like pie. I don't like. I hate yams. I can't even believe people with yams like that.

[B]

I don't mind yams. Yams are good.

[A]

Nasty.

[B]

I. But a sweet potato pie specifically. But to me, there is a difference between sweet potato and pumpkin.

[A]

Big difference.

[B]

I don't know that I think that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think that they are barely interchangeable in my brain.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Well, they. It's like a sweet.

[A]

One is white, one is black.

[B]

They're both orange.

[A]

That's really funny. Okay, rapid fire. Name everything Terry paid for in the movie. She paid for six things total.

[B]

Oh, I don't think. Do you know the answer? Do you know the answer?

[A]

I have the answer.

[B]

Oh, the wedding.

[A]

Okay. Period. Okay.

[B]

The taxes of the house, I guess. Like big mama's house taxes.

[A]

Is that okay?

[B]

Yeah, I assume. Are we counting? What's the same studio? Miles's studio.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

Oh, the. The beauty shop.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, you got four.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Two more things.

[B]

Is it to get someone out of jail? Does she bail us in it? No, she. She got up, she made a phone call. Wait. Bailed him out of jail. Is that okay?

[A]

I mean, that might be seven. That' Listen here.

[B]

I don't know. Oh, the surgery. Goddamn it. Big mama surgery.

[A]

Yes, that's fine. You got one more. What would be the last thing that she paid for.

[B]

The bab.

[A]

The.

[B]

The. To. To pay for the baby to be born? Something. What is it?

[A]

Funeral.

[B]

Of course she paid for that funeral. Everyone. This family, cuz the family. My husband and my wallet.

[A]

The family cuz the family. My wallet and my mother money up at the end of the day.

[B]

Wow. She also paid for the funeral.

[A]

She did.

[B]

That's annoying.

[A]

She did. I agree.

[B]

Well, I am going on a vacation. I'm not talking to any of you.

[A]

I agree. Let's get into the facts real quick. There's a couple facts that I just want to touch on. Please do. Halle Berry and Whitney Houston were both considered for the roles of Terry. Regina King, Kenya Moore and Jada Pinkett Smith were all considered for the roles of Bird.

[B]

Wow. I'm trying to think of timing wise that feels age wise feels weird.

[A]

Vivica. A Fox audition for the role of Terry but landed the role of Maxine instead.

[B]

Okay, sure. That makes sense.

[A]

All of that makes a lot of sense. I'm like, wow.

[B]

Holly Berry and Whitney Houston. I'm surprised Whitney didn't get it. I know only because surprisingly, she would.

[A]

Have been a fun.

[B]

She would have been a very fun terror. And her. I think her crash out would have made more sense. 100 Whitney going there makes way more sense than Vanessa Williams.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I think is a lot more calm.

[A]

Some other facts acts. The character Miles, played by Michael beach, plays keyboard in the R B group called Milestone. The vocalists of the group are portrayed by two siblings, Casey and Jojo. Casey and Jojo and baby. Say baby face.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we talked about that.

[A]

And Baby Faces brothers Kevin Edmonds and Melvin Edmonds, both of the band After Seven.

[B]

That was. It was seven people that now understand what you're mean.

[A]

The band was called After Seven. That the Edmond brothers were end. In real life.

[B]

In real life. Irl.

[A]

Irl.

[B]

Okay, okay, okay.

[A]

Oh, and then the soundtrack. We can't. We cannot.

[B]

Did Babyface produce it? I do wonder because he did Waiting to Exhale and I do know that to be true.

[A]

It says the Soul Food soundtrack was released that same year through LaFace Records and was a success. Success, peaking at number four on the Billboard 200.

[B]

And number one on the face Records is Baby Face.

[A]

Is Baby Face. Yeah, Lace.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Larry Reid and Baby Face.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

On the. And number one on the R and B and hip hop charts and was certified, certified double multi Platinum in 1990. What is double multi platinum?

[B]

Not diamond.

[A]

Four singles charted on the Billboard Hot 100.

[B]

Is Mama on this? Mama?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Mama, you know I love you.

[B]

Was that harmony? Was that there Almost.

[A]

In there somewhere? I was about it.

[B]

Mama, you're the cutest.

[A]

Wow. Yeah.

[B]

This song about this woman who terrorized her children that she didn't terrorize them.

[A]

But she didn't terrorize them.

[B]

She didn't. She didn't help.

[A]

Yeah. She was like. Yeah. I don't. Yeah.

[B]

She's kind of like a. A band aid.

[A]

She was an enabler. Unfortunately. The Katie Perk lyric Band over or my bullet.

[B]

Broken heart.

[A]

Band over a broken heart.

[B]

It's bad.

[A]

I like that song.

[B]

I. It's fine.

[A]

It's a good one.

[B]

It's fine.

[A]

Anyways, how fun. 4 single charter in top 100. I care about you, Whatever that is. What about About Us? By total.

[B]

What about us?

[A]

We're not Making Love no More by Drew Hill and a song for Mama by Boys to Men.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Was number one.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

Single. Yeah. Also September by Earth, Wind and Fire was included on this track listing. That's just right. Throwing on the right. It's just on there.

[B]

You know what? It's probably because these are black movies. Used to do the. The roll call at the end with the cast. Like. And I'm. Did this movie do that? And that's probably why that song is on there.

[A]

Did it.

[B]

I don't know. I get this sometimes. I get this movie. The ending of it confused with this.

[A]

Christmas and this Christmas. Did it. Did the. The Soul Train line at the end. Yeah. It feels like this Christmas was a direct rip of this. Yes. Like, they tried.

[B]

They really, really tried. It feels the same.

[A]

Doesn't give the same vibe.

[B]

Well, yeah. I feel like the other one. The. This Christmas feels silly in a way that this does not.

[A]

Yes. This does not feel exactly. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, calling this movie a comedy. Cuz also it's. It's a comedy drama. And I'm like. It is funny in context, but I don't think it is supposed to be funny. I laugh funny.

[A]

The little boy is funny.

[B]

Sometimes I think it's funny to kind of watch some of the things are Funny situation. Oh, oh, oh. I thought she was cuddling up, but he's cuddling up, but he's just.

[A]

He just wants to bite the dang expensive cord I just bought.

[B]

Of course he does.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's it.

[B]

I love this.

[A]

Yeah, that was. That was a good.

[B]

I know. Saw a little chat.

[A]

That was a fun one.

[B]

This movie. Yeah, it had a lot more than I thought I would play. Oh, damn. I for. They brought a lot out of me. Again, not a Thanksgiving movie.

[A]

It's definitely not. Oh, we have one more game if you want to. If you want to do it. Okay, answer. Who said these quotes?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't need your help. I can find my own job and stop looking at my dick.

[B]

The guy Feifer, or what is his name? Li. Li. Cuz that was when the queen came in and. Wow, pointed. That was anti. That was homophobic. Because like, how did that's. He pointed. He said it to the gay man who worked at the shop with him. And also I hated that the g.

[A]

He didn't say it to him. Who else was he talking?

[B]

I don't think so. I think he was talking to the gay man.

[A]

What?

[B]

They were all at the door?

[A]

No, by that point, she had locked them out and it was just the two of them in the bathroom. Okay. What are you doing home in the middle of the day? No, because I remember.

[B]

Oh, okay. I remember him open, but he dropped. That's what I mean. I think I tie it to that.

[A]

Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. But yeah, no, he says that to.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Well, great. Who is that hoochie coochie mama with her fat ass all over my man on the dance floor. This is my wedding day. I'm supposed to be happy.

[B]

That's Bird, cuz the. Where he. Both their exes showed up to their weddings. Weird, right? Weird.

[A]

Oh, the family. I let the family into my house and you know what happened? The family.

[B]

My husband, of course. Come on.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

I'm saying the real name.

[A]

And then there's the iconic Big Mama. Your arm.

[B]

Big Mama, your arm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let me put some butter on it.

[A]

That was crazy. Why did she say that? I'm actually confused. I was like, I don't know. Is that a thing? And you had a really good point before we started.

[B]

Yeah. They never ever talk about like, hey, we should eat different. The whole.

[A]

Mama just lost a leg and we're.

[B]

Like, let's eat more.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Let's. Let's go.

[A]

She died.

[B]

And then you're like, you Know what we should do to celebrate her or not celebrate to commemorate her death? Let's eat more things like.

[A]

No, I like chitterling as much as the next girl.

[B]

Of course you do. That's very niggardly of you.

[A]

I do. I haven't talked about chitlins in a long time. A long time on the show. And I said I wasn't gonna talk about it anymore because people kept coming into me, coming up to me in public talking me about chitlins and I.

[B]

Said well I can't be.

[A]

You don't know. I can't be the chit chitlins girl. Do you know where we are?

[B]

Yeah. That is kind of insane.

[A]

Like coming up to me, you being the, you scaring the hoes. It's getting weird. Why are you talking to me about chitlins at my white ass job?

[B]

I can't be the chitlins girl. Oh my gosh, is funny.

[A]

Anyways, you have anything else you want to talk about about the show? I mean about the movie.

[B]

No, I really do think we covered it.

[A]

I think we did too. I think we did good.

[B]

Yeah, I, I, I do. I will say I like the movie a lot more. It makes me want to rewatch it. I have not watched it in like maybe a couple years and I really do, I remember it well.

[A]

It is a objectively good. I will say it is a good movie. It made me feel good. I was intrigued the whole time I was watching it.

[B]

Good acting.

[A]

I love a star studded cast like that. And we don't have that as much in in black film anymore. Well, I feel like the title the Tyler Perfication of black film.

[B]

That's. Well, sorry.

[A]

Pissed me off.

[B]

I think it's more than just him. But yes, I think it's a Tyler Perry and the rhyme. The memification of film and I think that movies have gotten cheaper. Cheaper and then people don't have to be good anymore or you can get away with being bad. Because I think there are people who can be good that they just don't because it's faster to be bad.

[A]

That's fair.

[B]

Or cheaper to be bad.

[A]

I'm just thinking like star studded black movies, they're usually made by Tyler Perry.

[B]

I think we also don't have black stars the way we did in this.

[A]

That's very fair.

[B]

Like these particularly at this time were like star stars in a way that like right now name, I mean name them.

[A]

I could please do Cocoa Jones, Zendaya.

[B]

One of those is not like the other. Well which one? And I'm not talking about color.

[A]

Which one? Yeah, no, explain it.

[B]

I am saying Coco Drums is not nearly as famous as Zendaya in a.

[A]

Way that black famous. You know what I mean?

[B]

Sure, I would say, I guess this movie, but I'm like, Makai Feifer was in real. Like, I don't want to say real things. I'm. I'm digging a hole. Let's get the out.

[A]

I'm done.

[B]

You know what I mean, though?

[A]

Like, I, I understand some of these were household names in general in a.

[B]

Way that I, I don't think that we have black stars like that anymore. Stars. I think it's hard to be a star. You know what?

[A]

We don't have stars like that. That's really. We actually don't have stars like that anymore.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's just stars. I think it's hard to be a star.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I think that's it for the episode. You can watch this episode on YouTube and on Spotify. Comment along, join in, talk to, to us, do all the things you can. You can talk to us on Tik Tok, on Instagram, on threads. I'm getting off that, that X app. I can't really not. It's just the accounts exist, but I'm like, I feel like they're about to get deleted. So hit the threads, do all the stuff at BPL Pod and yeah, we'll see you next time. And you can email.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

If you feel like emailing with thoughts, ideas, hate mail, love or anything like in between. Black people love paramore gmail.com you guys, if you have any funny stories, any little piece of advice that you want our takes on or you have any questions for me, Jewel or Ryan, you want to get to know us a little bit better, please email us at Black people love paramore gmail.com or you can DM us on Instagram. We are going to be responding to and answering the funniest questions, stories, pieces of advice on next episode. We'll see you next week.

[B]

Yeah, two weeks. Two weeks.

[A]

Bye. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving.