TRL VS. 106 & Park

Summary

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Black People Love Paramore

Episode: TRL VS. 106 & Park

Date: September 18, 2025
Hosts: Sequoia Holmes, Ryann Graham

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Brief Overview

In this nostalgic, lively episode, Sequoia and Ryann dive deep into the after-school TV rituals that shaped a generation: MTV’s TRL (Total Request Live) and BET’s 106 & Park. They reflect on the cultural impact of these music video countdown shows, swap funny personal stories, compare how race shaped music TV, and reminisce about iconic moments, performers, and hosts. The show explores generational shifts in music consumption and shines a light on how TRL and 106 & Park created unique, now-lost communal spaces for Black youth and pop culture fans alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. White Song of the Week (00:58–07:02)

• Sequoia introduces the return of the “White Song of the Week,” highlighting songs by non-Black artists beloved by Black people.
• Sequoia’s pick: “Midnight Sun” by Zara Larsson – “It has dopamine in that song.” (01:51)
• Ryann notices Zara Larsson’s career longevity—likens her to Rita Ora and comments on their constant bookings.
• Ryann’s pick: An early 2000s pop road-trip song from the movie "Twinless".
• Discussion of nostalgia for artists like The Click Five and 3OH!3.
• Ryann: “If Lizzo is a rapper… then so is Kesha, so is 3OH!3, so is Fergie.” (05:51)

2. Personal TV Lineups & Channel Flipping (07:10–10:43)

• Both reminisce about their channel numbers for MTV, BET, Nickelodeon, and Disney.
• Sequoia admits never really watching TRL, only 106 & Park: "I only 106." (07:14)
• Ryann recalls being able to flip back and forth between MTV and BET, but felt more connected to MTV shows.

3. The Communal Ritual of Music Video Countdown Shows (11:01–16:12)

• Both describe after-school routines of racing home (or gathering with friends) to watch 106 & Park or TRL.
• Ryann’s nostalgia for the shared experience: “Before Twitter… we would be sitting and watching.” (12:09)
• Sequoia as an only child didn’t have after-school friend gatherings, but her mother sometimes joined for music videos.

4. Content & Format of TRL vs. 106 & Park (16:17–24:14)

• TRL = MTV, geared toward pop/rock, mainstream/white audiences, hosted by Carson Daly and others.
• 106 & Park = BET, centered on hip-hop and R&B, legendary hosts like Free & AJ, Rocsi & Terrence, and later Bow Wow.
• Both shows functioned as pre-YouTube “meeting points” for artists and fans (14:14).
• Freestyle Fridays and Rap City: Sequoia and Ryann discuss battle rap segments and their personal disconnects.

5. The Shared Cultural Vocabulary and Community (22:56–24:14)

• Ryann on monoculture: “I think that was a part of the nostalgia… we had community in music in a way that [we don’t today].”
• Sequoia: “That’s why when you think about like summer 2003, you know exactly what it sounds like.”

6. Iconic Moments & Viral Performances

A. Mariah Carey’s TRL Breakdown (25:18–27:52)

• Sequoia explains the infamous ice-cream-serving incident, reflecting on rumors and mental health.
• Ryann: “In context, like when you're watching it live, it doesn't feel that crazy.”
• Mariah’s “manic episode” led to public discussion about exhaustion and the pressures on celebrities.

B. Eminem Takes TRL Hostage (28:03)

• Sequoia: “He refused to play any other music, only played his own.”

C. Destiny’s Child Performances

1. TRL: "Lose My Breath" Performance (31:38–33:19)
   • With HBCU marching band; “They look like they're having so much fun being in a girl group.” (32:18)
2. 106 & Park: "Soldier" & The “Poor Michelle” Fall (41:34–44:50)
   • Michelle’s famous stage fall led to years of memes (poorMichelle.com).
   • Ryann: “To think about how talented Michelle and Kelly had to be to be next to Beyoncé…”

D. Raven-Symoné Calls Out Her Fans (45:09)

• Raven tells the studio audience: “Y’all don’t buy my music.” (45:09)

E. Genuine’s “Pony” Stunt (46:15–46:59)

• Fake health scare, emerges on a gurney, launches straight into his hit song.
• Sequoia: “That was a good black ass time… Who says straight men couldn’t be camp?”

F. Rocsi & Terrence J On-Air Tension (49:04)

• Terrence makes a disrespectful comment about Rocsi’s body live on air; she storms off set.

7. Changing Landscape & End of an Era (68:01–69:32)

• Carson Daly on TRL’s decline: “The whole tectonic shift of mass media.”
• Ryann: “There’s no… monoculture and there’s no meeting place for a TRL type of thing.”

8. Broader Social & Racial Context (69:00–70:25)

• Sequoia: “Music was more segregated at the time… Black people listened to Black music, which is why BET was a thing.”
• Ryann: “Pop stars would [add] a rapper feature to be played on urban radio—then on Top 40 stations, they would just cut the rap.”
• Mariah Carey credited as a major figure in bridging pop and R&B.

9. Generational Shifts & Nostalgia (70:27–71:20)

• Sequoia laments younger relatives' lack of musical variety and cross-generational knowledge: “We’re really losing recipes for real. Not to sound like an old head, but…”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On shared music experiences:
  "Before Twitter… we would be sitting and watching." – Ryann (12:09)

• On Destiny’s Child’s performance stamina:
  “Original key, voices was up here… and dancing in heels. And also they're doing this on… a Tuesday afternoon.” – Ryann (33:19)

• On kids today not knowing variety in music:
  “We’re really losing recipes for real. Not to sound like an old head, but I’m like, damn. I’m actually feeling like we’re losing recipes.” – Sequoia (70:15)

• On 106 & Park's hosts' cultural impact:
  “The hosts of 106 and Park feel way more iconic to me.” – Ryann (19:02)

• On performance demands for artists then vs now:
  "People today are not… the pop stars today are just not. They don't pop the way they used to." – Ryann (36:12)

• On celebrity beef & viral moments:
  “Rihanna was willing to take it there every time. And still to this day, I fear if you push her…” – Sequoia (55:26)

• On the rise of viral music & the end of monoculture:
  “Crank That… that was probably the beginning of the end… He was the first kind of viral song… since then, everyone’s like, I can be famous on my own.” – Ryann (73:16)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:58–07:02 — White Song of the Week
• 07:10–10:43 — Childhood cable lineups and viewing habits
• 11:01–16:12 — After-school rituals and communal viewing
• 16:17–24:14 — TRL vs 106 & Park: format, vibe, hosts
• 25:18–27:52 — Mariah Carey’s infamous TRL appearance
• 31:38–33:19 — Destiny’s Child’s iconic TRL performance
• 41:34–44:50 — The “Poor Michelle” moment on 106 & Park
• 45:09 — Raven-Symoné’s audience callout
• 46:15–46:59 — Genuine’s “Pony” performance stunt
• 49:04 — Rocsi & Terrence J on-air tension
• 56:07–63:01 — Most-played videos and Hall of Fame tracks on 106 & Park; retired classics and pop culture rankings
• 68:01–69:32 — Carson Daly on the end of the TRL era
• 69:00–71:20 — Segregation in pre-streaming music scenes; generational differences

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Tone & Style

The hosts blend sharp cultural critique with hilarious, affectionate nostalgia. Their banter is peppered with in-jokes, pop references, iconic song snippets, and authentically Black Gen Y/late-millennial energy. The tone is fun, irreverent, and inclusive—while reinforcing the show’s mission: to investigate and validate the full spectrum of Black pop interests.

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Episode Takeaways

• TRL and 106 & Park created communal third spaces for music fandom that today’s fragmented, algorithm-driven era lacks.
• Both race and genre played key roles in who got visibility on each network, but rare crossovers (like Mariah Carey & Destiny’s Child) helped shift boundaries.
• There’s a generational longing for shared pop culture “moments”—the magic of millions seeing the same performance at once.
• The podcast itself is a celebration of Black cultural plurality, nostalgia, and scene-kid inclusivity.

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Transcript

[Sequoia]

Foreign. Welcome to Black People Love Paramore, a pop culture podcast, not about the band Paramore, but about the common and uncommon interests of black people in order to help us, the blacks, feel a little bit more seen. Amen. Today we have me, Sequoia and Ryan.

[Ryan]

Me, Ryan, Ryan.

[Sequoia]

Freaky Friday, we have me, Sequoia and Ryan. And per usual rate review, do all that comment.

[Ryan]

Talk to us.

[Sequoia]

Love talking to you guys. Truly in the comments is so fun. So comment to us. Do all those things. You know what we're here to talk about today? Oh, you know what? I actually wanted to introduce a new segment, and I feel like I should have prepped you for this.

[Ryan]

You didn't.

[Sequoia]

But please, I love us prep you for this. It's a new old segment, so.

[Ryan]

Okay.

[Sequoia]

A segment we used to do that we no longer do.

[Ryan]

I probably. Okay.

[Sequoia]

That you can easily jump into.

[Ryan]

Sure.

[Sequoia]

What is the white song of the week?

[Ryan]

Ooh.

[Sequoia]

The song week that black people would like that we're trying to put you on. You know what I mean? Like what black people? What do we like? What do we like?

[Ryan]

Okay, let me go through my.

[Sequoia]

It can be nostalgic.

[Ryan]

It can be.

[Sequoia]

It can be. It can be current. Mine is current. I can go first. You.

[Ryan]

You go first. I want to see something really quick.

[Sequoia]

Mine is Midnight sun by Zara Larson. I. Oh, it's. She.

[Ryan]

It's her new album.

[Sequoia]

Her new Never ending Midnight Sun.

[Ryan]

You can stop.

[Sequoia]

That's how she sounds. Oh, so good.

[Ryan]

I believe, I believe that. Yeah, I believe that.

[Sequoia]

It's, it's, it's, it's really.

[Ryan]

It's that good.

[Sequoia]

It has dopamine in that song.

[Ryan]

Really?

[Sequoia]

Yes.

[Ryan]

Oh, if only Namani also had.

[Sequoia]

Wow. I'm sorry. I didn't have to be shady. I'm sorry.

[Ryan]

There's no shade. She's fine. I feel no way about nobody.

[Sequoia]

But she wasn't in fifth harmony.

[Ryan]

Zara Larson was not. I, I. She is just like a Swedish or something.

[Sequoia]

She's like some European Swedish.

[Ryan]

I knew she was like some European girls.

[Sequoia]

She came out of nowhere, but, like, feels like she's been around for forever. She's like. I've heard the name Zara Larson for a long time, but I never knew who she was. Never really. I couldn't name a song.

[Ryan]

You know what it is? She actually must have the same agent as Rita Ora because.

[Sequoia]

And read it. Like, how do y' all stick around, like, constantly. How do you constantly. Working, getting around.

[Ryan]

And I don't know anybody who's like, you Know what? I'm about to put on that new Zara. Can't never hurt someone.

[Sequoia]

And they always got something new.

[Ryan]

Booked constantly.

[Sequoia]

Booked constantly and busy.

[Ryan]

Hey.

[Sequoia]

It's insane.

[Ryan]

Need that agent. I. I'm like, currently listening to It's Toro Imois. Wait.

[Sequoia]

Oh, that's my midnight song. Sundance.

[Ryan]

The way you say it sound like an early 2000s.

[Sequoia]

It's a very hyper. Is very Kelly Clarkson when she was working with. I'm not Kelly Clarkson. Kelly Rowland when she was working with.

[Ryan]

Oh.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. When she was in that era. It is exactly. Yes. So that. It is so, so, so I must.

[Ryan]

Listen now because I love that.

[Sequoia]

Have to hear it. I'm gonna play it after you all because it is.

[Ryan]

That sounds fun. If it's that type of music.

[Sequoia]

It is that. It's exactly that.

[Ryan]

That is very fun.

[Sequoia]

You know the feeling that it'll listen.

[Ryan]

It is rub.

[Sequoia]

Jump around like you're jumping. You're happy.

[Ryan]

I hope so badly that we're coming back around because obviously I pray the.

[Sequoia]

Recession will get us there.

[Ryan]

Oh, my God. Recession. Pop is back in the. I'm so, so ready for recession. Oh, my God. Gus is like very activated.

[Sequoia]

All right, you see somebody outside? I'm trying to think.

[Ryan]

What is the name of this song? It's a song I heard in the movie very recently. Oh, can't get enough of this girl. I think that's what it's called. Can't get enough of this girl. It's like an old early 2000s, like, pop song. I heard it in a movie. Twinless. It's about this. This guy who loses his twin. And so like that people who like, are. They're in a support group for people who lose their twins. It is a dark comedy. It's up in the best way. It's a really good movie. But one of the scenes, they're driving, listening to it and it feels like.

[Sequoia]

It'S just the girl.

[Ryan]

It's not that song, but it's like very.

[Sequoia]

That just the girl I'm looking for.

[Ryan]

It reminds me of that. Like. So they're jamming up to the cars or road tripping. Love it.

[Sequoia]

I loved the click 5.

[Ryan]

Is that who sang that song?

[Sequoia]

That was the click 5. I only know that song. I literally don't know a single other song. Hope I don't want anyone else. She's a mystery. Now we going to get demonetized on YouTube. Oh, wow. We got demonetized for the songs turning 18. Cuz I was.

[Ryan]

Cuz we sang too much.

[Sequoia]

I was. I Was doing too much.

[Ryan]

That's what I did. I did nothing.

[Sequoia]

They said, get out. You. You sounded too similar to way too similar. Obviously, I was rapping 303.

[Ryan]

I want to go into it. I won't, but wow.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. It was just like, oh, did you. 303?

[Ryan]

I 303 way hard. It's crazy, you know?

[Sequoia]

Did you?

[Ryan]

Yes. I thought it was so different in high school because I was like. I listened to like, three or three. They came to my college. They were one of our campus. Like, really? Yeah. It was like past bands, you know? I mean, like when your student union brings bands. They were one of the bands we brought, and they were great.

[Sequoia]

They were past the prime, but it's still fun. I'm not your boyfriend, baby. Whoa. You really did 303? No, that's the one. I got in trouble rapping.

[Ryan]

What was. Was it paved with gold?

[Sequoia]

303, I call it.

[Ryan]

What the. Yeah.

[Sequoia]

No, I thought that was rap.

[Ryan]

Yeah, it's rap.

[Sequoia]

I thought that was rap.

[Ryan]

The thing is, I've said this before. I feel like if Lizzo is a rapper, which some people consider, then so is kesha. So is 303.

[Sequoia]

So is Kesha. So is Fergie.

[Ryan]

Same type of rap.

[Sequoia]

Three. Oh, three. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Oh, yeah. I love 300i 303. Real hard.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. Oh, I threw out three. I had.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

Both albums. Hard copies. The first one with the. The blue. Yeah.

[Ryan]

And then the blue and the.

[Sequoia]

And the gold. And I had both. Yes.

[Ryan]

Oh, God. Anyways, sorry. I love it also. That's my wide of the week. Whatever. The white song of the week. Go through 303's two albums.

[Sequoia]

I'm telling you.

[Ryan]

Discography. Crazy.

[Sequoia]

It is good.

[Ryan]

Very good.

[Sequoia]

It is very good. You know, they have a lot more albums than that. They had one before that blue one. They had one before that blue one. And they had one since that gold one.

[Ryan]

I believe you're lying.

[Sequoia]

No, I know.

[Ryan]

Yes.

[Sequoia]

I found out they had one before that blue one when I was doing the songs that turned 18 this year.

[Ryan]

Oh, is it just three? Don't trust me.

[Sequoia]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan]

They also did the Helen Keller moment.

[Sequoia]

Trust me.

[Ryan]

No, they have music still.

[Sequoia]

They do.

[Ryan]

Wow.

[Sequoia]

And they still perform. I just saw a video out right now. 2025 type release in July. That's crazy.

[Ryan]

Insane.

[Sequoia]

That's crazy.

[Ryan]

Who knew what? I don't. I don't want to know what 303 sounds like.

[Sequoia]

I'm okay. I'm actually really okay.

[Ryan]

And also. But I'm Hey, I bet you guys are out there and you're. Good for you, Good for you, good for you.

[Sequoia]

Keep making your art. I love that for you.

[Ryan]

I love that.

[Sequoia]

But, yes, we're here to talk about TRL. Yeah. And 106 in park.

[Ryan]

God. So basically we're gonna relive our after school activities.

[Sequoia]

I only.106.

[Ryan]

That's kind of crazy.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. I did not TRL whatsoever.

[Ryan]

I can't tell if you mean, like, literally whatsoever. Like, you never once, like. Let me just. What was your channel? My MTV and V or. Sorry. My MTV and bet were 24 and 25. So you can just flip back and forth.

[Sequoia]

Interesting. I don't remember. I don't remember which. Which numbers they were.

[Ryan]

I remember.

[Sequoia]

I only remember which numbers. Disney channel. Nickelodeon were 37 for Nickelodeon, 43 for Disney Channel.

[Ryan]

Mine were 49 for Nickelodeon, 70 for Disney. Yeah. And then 58 for Cartoon Network.

[Sequoia]

Well, I never cared what was on Cartoon Network.

[Ryan]

It was too boy. I'm sure.

[Sequoia]

Way too boy. So I was like, yeah, I keep it cool.

[Ryan]

Don't you know, I didn't watch Eddie. That is disrespectful. That was for slow kids. Don't.

[Sequoia]

Wait, who said? Somebody said somebody looked like Ed and Eddie the other day. Oh, they said. Kendra from Unknown Caller. Did you watch that Netflix documentary?

[Ryan]

Oh, my God.

[Sequoia]

They said that the mom look like Ed. They said you look like Ed and Eddie. Oh, my.

[Ryan]

All of them. She looks like Ed. Ed and Edd.

[Sequoia]

Wow. Yeah.

[Ryan]

It's crazy because I. Before I watched it, I just saw.

[Sequoia]

This might have been Mel Mitch that said that on Tick Tock. She's so funny.

[Ryan]

That is funny. Oh, my God. Sorry. That documentary is crazy. And I'm sorry. We can talk about that off camera because I might also have thoughts. We are. We're way off topic.

[Sequoia]

But.

[Ryan]

No, no, no, no. Crazy to me that you never flipped over to TRL because TRL was so iconic. I don't remember which came first.

[Sequoia]

It was. I mean, I'm sure TR came first. TR has. Has 18 seasons and it premiered on September 14th, 1998. Yeah, 106. And park has 14 seasons and premiered.

[Ryan]

I think, straight up, 2000.

[Sequoia]

Okay.

[Ryan]

I think.

[Sequoia]

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not seeing the date here, but yeah, I guess.

[Ryan]

I mean, because it ended in like, 14. No.

[Sequoia]

Yes. Yes.

[Ryan]

So then probably, yeah.

[Sequoia]

14, 2014. BT cancel one of Susan Park. Yeah.

[Ryan]

But yeah, so then TRL comes first. And I think when I think about, like, like watching tv.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

I watched MTV shows In a way that I never watch BET shows.

[Sequoia]

Ye know, I did watch both.

[Ryan]

I can't think of. Oh, I did watch College Hill. But like, I watch College. That was great with reality.

[Sequoia]

She used to fight. They used to show the fights. They busted old girl on her forehead. I saw blood splatter.

[Ryan]

That was in Jamaica or something like that.

[Sequoia]

It was in the Virgin Islands, I believe.

[Ryan]

And I think that might have been. Was that the last one? I think that was when they were.

[Sequoia]

Like, we have to cut this off. I don't think so. I don't even think so. But I'm not. Not positive, but I don't even think so.

[Ryan]

But I think because I watched MTV shows, I TRL more just. It was like a natural. Like, oh, I'm watching next. I'm watching. Blah, blah, blah.

[Sequoia]

And then TR did watching Parental Control Room Raiders.

[Ryan]

All those things.

[Sequoia]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan]

Like, before Pop the Balloon, you had Room Raiders. All of those shows are based. There's no way that those shows are not just reincarnation of MTV shows.

[Sequoia]

I forgot all about those shows. But also I was on BET watching College Hill. Baldwin Hills was that early enough.

[Ryan]

Part of me feels like Baldwin Hills was late. That's what I'm saying. I think someone. And maybe they weren't. Maybe I was. Maybe I was late. But I'm just thinking of like, I. I'm. I am. I'm a little bit older than you. Not too much. We can. And so, yes, I was. I think I probably tapped into MTV and BET just like. Like a touch before you did.

[Sequoia]

Right.

[Ryan]

And so I fell hard into just mtv. I think it was peak MTV culture. Like, I was watching spring break and I think it just made TRL fun.

[Sequoia]

That's fair.

[Ryan]

Like watching. I think I used to really be like. Like, dang. I never went to New York in high school. And I wish I would have because I think I would have stood up. I think I would have been like, let's go to trl. I'm sad that that experience doesn't really exist anymore.

[Sequoia]

I know the kids are missing out on digital third spaces too. Whoa. Yeah. Like, we're missing out on third spaces as a whole. Because that was where I spent all of my time after school I would go. I would go home after school and immediately turn on 106 and park.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

And everybody did. So, like, you know, it wasn't like I was rare. It was like, then I could talk to people about it the next day at school.

[Ryan]

Did you also? I actually have distinct memories of going to My friends houses because like sometimes our parents wouldn't be home. So we would just like have like a 106 or TRL party. Like I remember going to my friend's house after school one day and we would watch 106 Park.

[Sequoia]

So fun. Like so as an only child, I did not have that experience.

[Ryan]

I mean I didn't do it.

[Sequoia]

Allowed to come in my house, you know, like, no, my mom did not. I mean people were allowed to come home, but not like I never had any friends over after school ever.

[Ryan]

That seems so wild.

[Sequoia]

I never went to any friend's house after school either. What it was like not part of my. My mom was like, I'll be there to pick you up at 3pm and you only. Thank you.

[Ryan]

Those other kids can walk.

[Sequoia]

No, she may not come. No, none of that was your mom.

[Ryan]

Your. Your mom wasn't a stay at home mom.

[Sequoia]

She was.

[Ryan]

Oh, okay. I don't think I realized that. Okay then that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. No, my parents.

[Sequoia]

That sounds really fun.

[Ryan]

It was fun.

[Sequoia]

That feels like my dream. Like I would love that type of shit as a kid.

[Ryan]

It was fun. It was like, like I remember like we would sit and watch and talk about what the ever was going on. Like it just felt very much like before Twitter or before like facetime. We will be sitting and watching. Like I distinctly remember watching. I remember watching the premiere of Fergie's London Bridge because it was her debut album. I was a huge Black Eyed Peace fan.

[Sequoia]

I loved it. What year was that?

[Ryan]

2006. It was.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

And I was like. It was crazy. I remember being at like we were visiting my uncle. He lived in Shreveport, Louisiana. We went to his house and I distinctly remember being like, we have to get back because Fergie's out.

[Sequoia]

And were you closeted at this time? Not well. Everybody had to know. Said, can we get back for who?

[Ryan]

My uncle was like, we gotta get back. This little. He wants to see.

[Sequoia]

My God.

[Ryan]

He didn't say that. He would have never said that. But could you imagine? Yeah, I sure did. And I remember making my cousins sit and watch. Wow. This trip. I'm thinking back to this trip and it's coming back to me. We watched it and then I remember downloading that song. And we went to a skating rink in Shreveport. Louis. Which was fun.

[Sequoia]

This is such a black. Like this is such a black. Including Fergie. This was such a black ass experience.

[Ryan]

It was great. And like it like, yeah. Roller skating in Louisiana. And I remember again, I thought I was so Different. I. I didn't like the music they were playing at the skating rink. It probably was great, but I really wanted to hear Fergie's album and I wanted to hear Gwen Stefani's Rich Girl Period. And so I demoed it.

[Sequoia]

And you had your headphones on.

[Ryan]

And the skating ring. Headphones on. Skating to.

[Sequoia]

Again.

[Ryan]

I was so gay.

[Sequoia]

Oh, my God. That's.

[Ryan]

It is. The memory is coming back to me right now thinking about it. But, like, great. It was a great time. Rich girl, great music video. And also, wow. Like, think about that. Like, TRL and 106 and park both presented music videos. This was like, pre YouTube.

[Sequoia]

Yeah, it was for YouTube. I think YouTube came out in 2006. I'm not mistaken.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Sequoia]

So it was like.

[Ryan]

It wasn't a music video. No.

[Sequoia]

Nobody cared. Yeah. About what?

[Ryan]

I'm just realizing, like, oh, this is. This was our YouTube.

[Sequoia]

This was our YouTube. Wow. And this is why people had to engage in payola so deeply, because no artist had any control over their music. Like, you couldn't upload it to YouTube and, like, you had to pay somebody to get you on TRL.

[Ryan]

Crazy.

[Sequoia]

Or. Or the radio or 106 and park.

[Ryan]

That's crazy. I've never thought about that until this moment. And I'm like, yeah, truly, like, we. That specific time for us, it was like us watching music videos, us watching the quote, unquote, YouTube of today. And I feel like it is such specific time that I. I remember, like, in preparing for this episode, I felt so nostalgic because it just. It's such a specific time that, like, our parents didn't have and no one else have. Like, you know, we are the only kind of, like, generation to have.

[Sequoia]

Wow.

[Ryan]

Something so specific.

[Sequoia]

Do you consider yourself a zillennial?

[Ryan]

I do. I think, because, like, I feel like, yeah, I'm. I guess I'm like the oldest of those millennials.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Where does it start?

[Sequoia]

Allegedly, the girlies tell me that it starts in 1995.

[Ryan]

That's where it's the lineal.

[Sequoia]

That's what they claim. I'm 94. I'm. I'm. I said I'm doing. I'm in there, you know. Okay.

[Ryan]

I will add, hey, you're a year away. So I'm like, you literally are. But I think that there's something about being in LA where we stay younger and then we also are in media. So, like, we kind of have to stay young.

[Sequoia]

100.

[Ryan]

And so, like, I think, right. If I talk to my friends from back Home in Missouri. Who, like, are not as tapped into like, like, pop culture. They are probably way more squarely millennial than I am.

[Sequoia]

1,000%. 1,000%. Okay, so there was TRL, there was 106 and park, both music video countdown style shows where all of us will gather after school. Sit together or by myself. If you were being an only child, your mom. No.

[Ryan]

Could you imagine ladies just sitting there?

[Sequoia]

Yeah, my mom did love music and music videos. So, like, if she was not cooking dinner, she wasn't busy. She would definitely, like, tap in and be like, oh, what's, what's, what's good? But I'll be standing up teaching myself the dances for like, like, music videos and all the stuff. It was such a good time.

[Ryan]

I'm trying to remember, obviously, 106 in park, being on BET and then like, being for hip hop in R B. Did they ever play, like, anything that was not. I'm trying to. Yeah, even. Yeah, Popish. Like, I mean, they probably.

[Sequoia]

The closest I think they got is like, Danity Kane damaged. I remember that being on one on six in park. My heart is. Damn it.

[Ryan]

Oh, no. Love the song. You don't have to remind me.

[Sequoia]

My heart is. Can you fix an H A I T? Cause it's D A N A G E D. Can you fix my H E A I T And tell me are you up on the challenge? Cause my heart is damaged.

[Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. Hey, I was in it, baby.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. Damaged, yeah. Damn. So anyways, I think that's as close as they got to, like, pop. And you know that was Diddy, right?

[Ryan]

Exactly.

[Sequoia]

So I'm sure he was heavily pulling some heavy strings behind the scenes to get whatever the hell he wanted on. You know, they probably also played like. They probably didn't have to play because Danny strings was big.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

I imagine they would have also played like, dream.

[Ryan]

I don't remember no dream.

[Sequoia]

He loves me.

[Ryan]

No, I know he loves me now.

[Sequoia]

Because that was also diddy.

[Ryan]

I agree with you that I understand the thought, but I think that because they are white and nobody was black. White.

[Sequoia]

White. Yeah.

[Ryan]

I think it would be harder to be on, like, certainly, because I'm like. Do you consider that song to be, like a crossover?

[Sequoia]

It's a little hip hoppy. I wouldn't say it's hip hop. Sure, it's a little hip hop.

[Ryan]

It's hip hoppy in the way they're like. Like, to me, Christina Aguilera will make more sense to play. I don't know that she ever appeared.

[Sequoia]

On I Can't imagine that.

[Ryan]

But to me, that makes more sense. Like that dirty era.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Because she was like, such a big star, for sure. Where it's like, this is good for us to have her on the show, you know?

[Sequoia]

I'm so sorry. You know what? I just thought about that one song by Ludacris that was about Run Away Love God, Jennings.

[Ryan]

Mary J. Blige.

[Sequoia]

It was Mary J. Blige, right?

[Ryan]

Is that who it is? Life. Jennings must be alive. Must be. Was 19 years old looking for a man Trying to feed her soul Ex.

[Sequoia]

Take his deep breath and think before you let it go what a time.

[Ryan]

God.

[Sequoia]

No songs were on.

[Ryan]

Absolutely. Because little Kiki Palmer was in the Runaway Love music video.

[Sequoia]

She sure was in the Runaway Love music video.

[Ryan]

She ran away because she got pregnant, I believe.

[Sequoia]

Yeah, she did.

[Ryan]

Kiki Palmer. She was. I remember it.

[Sequoia]

Yes. Whoa. That's insane.

[Ryan]

But, yeah, I do remember those distinctly. Being on a 106 and park, you know, it's weird. Like, I think I TRL'd more, but the hosts of 106 and park feel way more iconic to me, and I don't think that that is factually true. Carson Daly is the only one that I can't remember.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. Were there other one ones?

[Ryan]

Yeah, tons. Again, none of them, like. And I. No disrespect to them. I obviously, they're talented in their own right. I just feel like, to me, I don't know why 106 and Park Ho. Stuck out way more.

[Sequoia]

100. I think it's because they were always like. It was like, oh, it was Free and aj and then it was Roxy and Terence, and then it was Bow Wow.

[Ryan]

I only know him in name, but.

[Sequoia]

I know I don't swear Tigger hosted Rap City Cena.

[Ryan]

I never Rap City.

[Sequoia]

That's the one thing about City. Barely. I did Rap City because my older brother. Rap City. Right. I just said I was the only child. Older half brother.

[Ryan]

Hi, guys. Gus is, like, also wants to be on the mic.

[Sequoia]

He really wants to be. Sorry.

[Ryan]

No, he's fine.

[Sequoia]

Okay. He's fine. Great.

[Ryan]

But I like the thing about. I think Rhapsody felt like, you know how you didn't. Boy, that felt too bad.

[Sequoia]

City was really. Boy, I will say. And I felt that way as well. So my brother would turn it on. I'd be like, like. Like that Jay Z meme where I'm, like, trying to get into it. I'm like, yeah, yeah. That's aggressive. Like, the boys on here, like, really rapping at each other. It feels like, I don't know, I'm.

[Ryan]

Trying to remember the format of Rhapsody. Like I just remember the theme song, Rap City. That's all I remember. I and I. When I tell you that's all. I don't remember the format.

[Sequoia]

I remember there being a microphone.

[Ryan]

Sure.

[Sequoia]

That like hung. I think so.

[Ryan]

It's like Freestyle Friday sort of live.

[Sequoia]

I think Freestyle Friday was a segment on Rhapsody. If I'm not, oh, if I'm not mistaken. Hey, now, don't give me the line.

[Ryan]

Hey, hey. Confidently wrong. I love it.

[Sequoia]

Hello, Freestyle. Let me see.

[Ryan]

Because I remember Freestyle Friday and I remember there would be like champions and that was always fun. I do think that that on 106 and park was always fun.

[Sequoia]

Oh, that was on. That was, that was 106 in park. Yeah. Freestyle Friday was a recurring segment on BET's Hip Hop Show Rap City, though it is more more famously associated with 106 in park.

[Ryan]

So they must have picked it up.

[Sequoia]

And put it on because I certainly do remember it on Rhapsody and I barely remember it on one Park. I don't think I liked. Interesting. I don't think I liked the Friday freestyle.

[Ryan]

It's interesting to me because you're like a rap like, you're likes rap.

[Sequoia]

I don't think I've ever really liked battle rap like that. Oh, battle rap. I'm like, interesting. I think y' all are kind of scaring me. Scaring the hoes now. Scaring the ho.

[Ryan]

I know. I do feel that I will say they were kind of like. It was, it was mad aggressive. I liked watching it, but I do feel like it, it was a tonal shift in the show where I was.

[Sequoia]

Like, like, oh, the voice stuff is happening. I do remember there was a, a white boy that got really far on Freestyle Friday. I can't remember his name, but I remember there was a white boy that got really far on Freestyle Friday. Somebody's going to tell us.

[Ryan]

Sure. Right.

[Sequoia]

Somebody's screaming it right now.

[Ryan]

Yeah, I, I, I, I remember they would be like. Cuz they would come back week after week and they were like, was there. I don't know if there was like a belt. I just remember. Yes. I distinctly remember liking there was a belt. Yeah, like, and they would.

[Sequoia]

It was like a championship type of thing.

[Ryan]

Like, I distinctly remember that.

[Sequoia]

And that was fun.

[Ryan]

I, that I like something about these shows. I think it's kind of like what Lizzo was saying about how like, everything's so algorithm driven now. I think shows like this gave us a Like you were like a meeting point. Like we all would sit and like we were all watching the same thing. We're all listening to the same people. And like, it's like we don't really even. Because music videos obviously still happen today. The VMAs literally just happened for sure. But it is very possible to be a notable pop star. Somber winning VMA's last night. And I'm like, I'm sorry, is that correct?

[Sequoia]

I don't know a single song. The. Our 23 year old board op at SiriusXM is always talking about Somber.

[Ryan]

I'm like, like, I don't know.

[Sequoia]

I don't know who you're referencing.

[Ryan]

Are you sad? Is that what you're telling me now?

[Sequoia]

Yeah, because I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about.

[Ryan]

It's so real.

[Sequoia]

Sorry.

[Ryan]

There were a couple artists last night where I was like, oh no.

[Sequoia]

Yeah, I'm aging out.

[Ryan]

Or people presenting. I was like, what the is that?

[Sequoia]

Never heard of her. I don't know.

[Ryan]

But yeah, I. I think that, like, I think that was a part of the nostalgia in thinking about this episode was like, oh, it reminded me of a time where we felt like we had community.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

In music in a way that I don't. Obviously there's still fan bases that. But something about the fan bases now, they don't. They don't feel this. Does that make sense? It feels as opposed to being like we are a community of music lovers.

[Sequoia]

100. I think that's why when you think about like summer 2003, you know exactly what it sounds like.

[Ryan]

Crazy in love.

[Sequoia]

Crazy. That's the primary one. Right. I'm trying to think of like, just give me the light. Was that summer 2003? You know, like it's around. You know what that time sounds like? Music sounds like so much stuff. There's just so much right now.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

You know, like it was radio before and it was like, oh, yeah, I know all of these songs now. I look at the top 10 songs and I'm like, I know three maybe. And only a snippet from Tik, right.

[Ryan]

Like, yeah, I know this exists. And it's one of those things where like those songs stay longer and so they get like more and like, I'm not trying to knock the songs, but because the songs say, I think they stay the top 10 because there's so many more people listening to so many more things that like, like these things are just kind of like what everyone is listening to or like, yeah, yeah. It's because everyone's in their own little silo. So like the. Yes, you are the top song, but it's because everyone is listening to something else.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Not because everyone is listening to you.

[Sequoia]

Right.

[Ryan]

It's just. Yeah. I don't know. It's interesting and I think I miss these kind of like shows. I really, really do.

[Sequoia]

I agree. Do you know there was a Canadian version of trl?

[Ryan]

I didn't. Where did it. Where was it?

[Sequoia]

I'm trying to think of called. It was called the Much Countdown. Much Music was their version. They didn't have mtv. They had Much Music. And the Much Countdown.

[Ryan]

The channel was called Much.

[Sequoia]

Yeah, they did not have mtv. The Canadian equivalent was Much Music.

[Ryan]

Okay, but you. I'm trying. Is that an abbreviation or. It's literally Much Much.

[Sequoia]

As a music.

[Ryan]

Music channel.

[Sequoia]

A lot of music.

[Ryan]

No, I think it's Music channel Mu C H. Much. No, they're saying there's so much.

[Sequoia]

There's so much. Yeah, so that was their version.

[Ryan]

Wow. Okay, sure.

[Sequoia]

Oh, wait, is this. Oh, it started before, oh, 1996. That sounds like that was like one year before TRL.

[Ryan]

Somebody went up north and said, you.

[Sequoia]

Know what, you know what the Canadians do with the moose? You know what the moose people do? The they doing up there? They got a music countdown that I think we could, we could make some money off of.

[Ryan]

They got a little biracial man, and.

[Sequoia]

I think we should do that as well. Okay. There's a few iconic moments from TRL and 106 in the park, but let's start with TRL. Okay, so Mariah Carey serving ice cream. I had not seen that one until I was prepping for the show. It didn't seem like she was having a manic episode, but apparently she was having a manic episode.

[Ryan]

Right. So like this is around the time she was releasing Glitter. I don't remember if Glitter was already out or she was like in she. Either way, big promo mode for this movie. In context, like when you're watching it live, it doesn't feel that crazy. It is weird cuz she shows up in like this oversized T shirt and then she starts to strip on stage. And like Carson is like. And you think he's acting? He's like, oh, what are you doing? Showed up.

[Sequoia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ryan]

Like it feels like TV thing.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

But then like a couple of days later, like Mariah is checked into a hospital for I think what they call exhaustion, but like celebrity kind of going.

[Sequoia]

Nuts type of thing going through it.

[Ryan]

But yeah, so we Find out that Mariah Carey is like having an episode and like she just got a lot of pressure from this movie. The movie's not doing well. The. The album doesn't do well. And then 911 happens. So like it's just like she was just not having a good time.

[Sequoia]

Didn't Glitter drop on the same day? The movie dropped on the same day.

[Ryan]

Album dropped the same day. Album came out on Tuesdays, movies on Fridays. So this was Tuesday album. Cuz there's like the famous video of like the Twin Towers burning. And then someone pans down and it's Glitter.

[Sequoia]

Oh my God.

[Ryan]

It's funny. But yeah, glitter drops on 911. She has a breakdown. She's giving out ice cream. The ice cream looks nasty. They keep showing.

[Sequoia]

It looks like it has blood. It looks like it's bloody.

[Ryan]

I'm assuming it's just melted, but it's red. I'm pretty sure she literally like got a ice cream. Like she just bought a thingy and brought it in from like. I remember listening to like the story of Mariah Carey and they talk about this period in her life and she called trl. Like she was like, I'm coming. Like they. So the producers knew. I don't believe Carson actually knew. She was like, I'm coming to tr, blah, blah, blah. And then they just kind of like put her out there quickly, like let her go and let her run and then tell Carson.

[Sequoia]

Carson, you know, pissed off. I would be if I was Carson.

[Ryan]

Oh, to be like the host and be like. What do you mean be like, y'.

[Sequoia]

All just let her on the stage. Y' all didn't tell me nothing. Like didn't give me any helicopter. Like they said. Oh, Ryan. Carrie's backstage, by the way. Surprise. Guess. No, nothing to promote Glitter, her new album.

[Ryan]

Yeah, no, they were like, sorry. And then she just kind of walks on.

[Sequoia]

That's insane. I'm sad that Glitter didn't do well because it really is an iconic title. It kind of. Glitter is a really fun album name. It tells you the vibe that you're about to experience. Like Girlhood 2000s.

[Ryan]

It is very girlhood. Very true.

[Sequoia]

It is.

[Ryan]

Yeah. That's fair.

[Sequoia]

I wanna, I would want parts, but.

[Ryan]

I've never seen it and maybe it is good. Maybe it holds up. I've never heard or listening.

[Sequoia]

I get it mixed up with Honey.

[Ryan]

Okay. Yeah, I don't. I don't even think they have the same.

[Sequoia]

No, I get it mixed up with Sparkle.

[Ryan]

Also different. Sparkle is based on Whitney Houston Yes. And also based on a musical from like a Broadway musical.

[Sequoia]

Sure, but you see, that's the same. That's the same.

[Ryan]

I do, I do understand. Glitter, dust, sparkle.

[Sequoia]

Right? So there was the Mariah Carey serving ice cream moment. Eminem took over. TRL saw that.

[Ryan]

Sure, sure.

[Sequoia]

This as well. He refused to play any other music, Only played his own.

[Ryan]

What did he call it? And then he called it something. He called it. He changed the name of it.

[Sequoia]

Who knows?

[Ryan]

Or maybe it was MTV as an em.

[Sequoia]

Like mtv.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Sequoia]

He said, he said no more NC Sick. No, right, right, right, right, right. Like in sync and 98 diseases.

[Ryan]

Yeah, of course. Cuz he was a bad boy.

[Sequoia]

Right. And he hated all the little pop boys. He was a bad boy.

[Ryan]

Right, but also music. Not pop music capitalist, but okay.

[Sequoia]

Dirty pop. Why did he sound like that?

[Ryan]

I don't know. And why does he have a Vanguard award? Let's talk about that.

[Sequoia]

I would love to understand why. Justin, can you. I can't name me one Justin Timberlake music video that is not Cry river river and not Cry me a River.

[Ryan]

I can't think of one.

[Sequoia]

I literally, I literally cannot think of one.

[Ryan]

I think I. I have to believe Suit and Tie has a video.

[Sequoia]

Oh, I can picture it.

[Ryan]

It's not iconic, I'm saying. I can't even picture.

[Sequoia]

He's on a stage. It's in black and white. He has on a tux or whatever. He has a microphone. He's doing, you know, the little Justin Timberlake neoing. And he's kneeling. Okay. He's chucking and driving around the microphone.

[Ryan]

Sure.

[Sequoia]

Jay Z comes on with his sunglasses, you know.

[Ryan]

Sure.

[Sequoia]

You tell your mama we go father there as a couple. Yeah, you ain't doing it. You got a son. I'll show you how to do this, huh?

[Ryan]

I hate it a lot. Yeah, sure, sure.

[Sequoia]

Not iconic anyways, but you know, MTV will be mtv. Hey, sure will Vote or Die campaign. So. Yeah, you know what? Both, Both MTV and BET106 in park and TRL was heavy on the. Yeah, vote. Vote or die.

[Ryan]

This was Obama. Was this Obama?

[Sequoia]

Certainly not.

[Ryan]

Oh, it's Bush.

[Sequoia]

This had to be.

[Ryan]

This is cuz V. But it had to be like 04. So that's Bush and Drone Carry or who's the other one? Who do you run against? It is John. Al gore was the first time. I think Al Gore is 2000.

[Sequoia]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ryan]

I think John Car second. And I guess if you just go. And to be fair, hey, we were children quite literally and So I. I.

[Sequoia]

Don'T blame y' all listening were more. More children if that not born right.

[Ryan]

I don't blame Kiki Palmer for not knowing who the vice president was because.

[Sequoia]

I wouldn't recognize him. I know.

[Ryan]

I do know.

[Sequoia]

I know a name.

[Ryan]

You don't know what he looks like. No, I immediately. Okay, that's. That's off topic.

[Sequoia]

Hold on. Let me make sure. Let me just.

[Ryan]

You know what Dictati looks like. I feel like.

[Sequoia]

Let me tell you something. If you put this photo of this man in front of me and said, who is this? Your guess will be as good as mine. I would have raised a piece of an idea who I was looking at.

[Ryan]

I don't. I don't know why I know that. I just. Just distinctly know what who Dick Cheney is.

[Sequoia]

I would have not a clue. These get old. He 84.

[Ryan]

Also that. I think that was him when he was young. He looks like Mitch McConnell.

[Sequoia]

He looks like Mitch McConnell.

[Ryan]

Okay, sure. Never mind.

[Sequoia]

It doesn't matter anyways.

[Ryan]

But yeah. Voter die. They really weren't trying. Hey, get us out and voting.

[Sequoia]

Did he did.

[Ryan]

Wow. And look at him now. Well, he got acquitted.

[Sequoia]

This. You know what?

[Ryan]

I don't know. I have conflicted. Did. Did he got off. Did he not. Am I wrong?

[Sequoia]

He got acquitted on all of the Right. Yeah. All of the more charges.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

Destiny Child has two iconic performances. One on TRL, one on 1, one on 106 and park.

[Ryan]

And for different reasons.

[Sequoia]

For very different reasons. So they start off the TRL performance and they're in the hallway. There is a marching band like a black ass HBCU marching band about this.

[Ryan]

Planted the seed.

[Sequoia]

Okay.

[Ryan]

She said, yeah.

[Sequoia]

And they. They hitting them drums.

[Ryan]

And then pan. You see Kelly, Michelle, Beyonce stand.

[Sequoia]

Can you keep Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk. Kelly's in the middle, hips galore, swaying back and forth hair. They look like they're having so much fun being in a girl group look like it was so much fun at this time.

[Ryan]

You don't think now no Cat looks like they're having fun. That Gap. That Gap ad is fun. I should say.

[Sequoia]

You know what I think because. Because Cat's Eye was formed on reality tv, we can see how much work it takes to get there. And it doesn't look fun anymore. When Beyonce was being abused to try to be a better to try to run up as a child with heels on.

[Ryan]

We didn't see it.

[Sequoia]

I didn't know anything of the like. All I know was that there was a star in front of me.

[Ryan]

The work. Work.

[Sequoia]

And that I wanted to be a part of that.

[Ryan]

Real, real fair.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryan]

And also, I guess, you know what, they're probably having so much fun because unlike, I guess a lot of girl groups are kind of formed. They. They were friends. Childhood friends.

[Sequoia]

Exactly. So it's like, of course I'm doing.

[Ryan]

This with my best friend.

[Sequoia]

I can't believe they like stayed friends.

[Ryan]

Yeah, I love that.

[Sequoia]

What? No, I'm just shocked.

[Ryan]

I do love it.

[Sequoia]

I'm just like shocked.

[Ryan]

Since children literally like babies truly.

[Sequoia]

But I mean, they stay friends with everybody.

[Ryan]

Someone can always send your luggage.

[Sequoia]

Girls time ended.

[Ryan]

But yeah, I like they, they not only walk down the aisle, they get on stage. Stage sing it. And you pointed this out.

[Sequoia]

The original key voices in the high ass. Original key voices was up here we.

[Ryan]

Are and dancing in heels. And also they're doing this on like a. It's a Tuesday afternoon.

[Sequoia]

Tuesday after through literally 3:00pm like, hey, the sun is still out, right?

[Ryan]

Well, and they're like, we had to have full beat.

[Sequoia]

They have camera ready. Full beat. Lace front forming glued down, down. You guys want to try and do this promo with British accent sense?

[Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Sequoia]

Let's do it. Okay. Okay. Ify you go, boy.

[Ryan]

Bro. This is TV Chef Fantasy league.

[Sequoia]

Fantasy league. Okay, Sierra. We take cooking competition shows and treat them like fantasy sports, like a newscaster.

[Ryan]

Very posh.

[Sequoia]

Right now we're doing the great British.

[Ryan]

Bake off or the Great British baking.

[Sequoia]

Show if you're listening from the U.S. oh, that was really soothing. You chose like a prim and proper thank you out in Abbey. You okay? If you. I think you have the best accent. You want to take us home?

[Ryan]

Subscribe to TV Chef Fantasy League on Maximumphone.org and wherever you get your podcasts. Better than my Boston one.

[Sequoia]

Hi, everybody. It's Ellen Weatherford and Christian Weatherford. People say not to judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, but we can judge a snake by its ability to fly or a spider by its ability to dive or a dung beetle by its ability to navigate with the starlight of the Milky Way galaxy. On just the zoo of us, we rate our favorite animals out of 10 in the categories of physical effectiveness, behavioral ingenuity, and of course, aesthetics. Guest experts like biologists, ecologists, musicians, comedians and more join us to share their unique insights into the animal kingdom. Listen with the whole family on maximumfun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan]

So the other thing the show gave us is like, like performance is just like on the regular. This was like a weekly thing. Someone was performing all the time.

[Sequoia]

You had to be performance ready. You had to be performance or not.

[Ryan]

You had to be.

[Sequoia]

You had to be performance ready.

[Ryan]

And people today are not. And I think that's why the pop stars today are just not. They don't pop the way they used to. Because I'm like these girls not even just. I mean obviously destiny shot is a specific thing. But I think anybody at any moment had to be ready to go to TRL and perform live.

[Sequoia]

And similarly you have to be ready to sing live at any. Any point there I was just watching like compilation of interviewers like the Barbara Walters and all those people who would interview the. The celebrities and they'd be like, can you give me a little whatever. And they would always do it and they would eat the down. You know, Christina Aguilera used to live for those moments. I watched her. She said, yeah, I think I could do what a girl wants. Yeah. 100 what she was giving. And the girls today. Can't, could never, won't, could never. The only ones that I believe in that maybe could do it. Chapel could do it. She would not.

[Ryan]

She wouldn't. She could.

[Sequoia]

She could.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

She would not. Ariana definitely could also.

[Ryan]

Wouldn't.

[Sequoia]

I don't. And I feel like I think she'll be annoyed. I think she might. But I think she'd be irritated.

[Ryan]

Yeah, that's fair. Fair.

[Sequoia]

Whereas the girls loved it for the. For the sport they were in it.

[Ryan]

To be fair. I think Christina. Because that was also. And I do wonder how real the beef I do wonder how real the beef was. The Christina of it all. I wonder if it was like. She's like, I'm gonna show you. Because Brittany can't.

[Sequoia]

No.

[Ryan]

Straight to Brittany. But like Christina's like, I know what she can't do.

[Sequoia]

I think the beef was manufactured to a degree. But I do think it was Christina being like. And I'm more talented. So.

[Ryan]

And I'm gonna at any chance I can prove it.

[Sequoia]

I'm gonna show you. Yeah. Because as Brittany's spirits to sing down like this live right now. And she's going to say.

[Ryan]

Which would also be iconic. Really good.

[Sequoia]

Thank you.

[Ryan]

Thanks. But it's funny cuz like I've in watching this TR or on. On 106 in Park, Chris Brown, they had one of his baby interviews.

[Sequoia]

And I was like, oh baby. He sang too. And it was so cute. I know. And that used to be like. That used to be required. Like it wasn't like, like it was like, expected. You're a singer, right?

[Ryan]

So, so sing.

[Sequoia]

What's the problem?

[Ryan]

Which is crazy to think that, like, why would you be annoyed being asked to sing? Like, well, I mean, you do sing.

[Sequoia]

Hello. Why, why would, are you not a singer? I'm so confused. Did somebody ask me to hop on the microphone to talk?

[Ryan]

I'm like, well, this is my job. This is what I, I love a hot mic.

[Sequoia]

Give it. Thank you.

[Ryan]

I, Yeah, I wonder. Yeah. I, I, I, I have. I'm trying to figure out my thoughts around it. I think, I do think that there's a level of, like, people get into music now. Maybe not for the same reasons. I do think people still love music, obviously, but I do think that, like, there's something else about it now that is just so much more present and accessible and visible in a way that I think back then there was a lot of, like, groundwork. You could, in your bedroom right now, become a singer.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Back then you had to really want it.

[Sequoia]

Yes. It was almost like, like it was like a sport in and of itself. Like you had to train in the same way that an athlete does. Whereas right now you absolutely don't have to do any of that. You don't even have to have the talent.

[Ryan]

Right. And, and I will say that because I. There are people who are talented who have not done the things. But it's. You're right. You're saying it's not even a requirement.

[Sequoia]

No, it's not a requirement at all. It's like, oh, that's really nice to have. And I think that's why we're so impressed or why I'm so impressed by a Tate MC Craig who can. Okay. Who can dance, you know, because the girls don't. The girls really don't. You think Chapel can dance? No, Ariana can't dance. For real. She can.

[Ryan]

I mean, you know what?

[Sequoia]

Wicked shocked me, cuz I've never seen her move that much.

[Ryan]

Yes, I, yes, sorry. I do think that there's something musical. The. She would have theater kids. Of course.

[Sequoia]

Of course she, she does a little.

[Ryan]

Yeah. But yeah, you like Tate. Whereas Tate's dancing is distinctly.

[Sequoia]

She's a trainer. She literally has been trained to dance.

[Ryan]

She's a dancer.

[Sequoia]

She was a small, small child, you know, and the girls just don't have that level of performance value right now.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Sequoia]

But everybody did then, right? It was like a requirement. Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears, Destiny Child, everybody. It's like, you're gonna dance TLC even before then. Like, everybody was gonna dance except for Aaliyah. She didn't have to because she was cool.

[Ryan]

Did she not die dance?

[Sequoia]

She did, but it wasn't like. It wasn't like the other girls, really.

[Ryan]

Aaliyah, I have the disillusion.

[Sequoia]

Aaliyah is. Aaliyah is Rihanna.

[Ryan]

You know, she was gonna be.

[Sequoia]

Rihanna does dance, but, like, can dance, but isn't like, giving you a. You're not about to get a full.

[Ryan]

Rihanna is selling the dance.

[Sequoia]

She sell like, she's like, yeah, I can do this and I can wind my waist. I'm like, whatever. And I am very cool. And you're gonna be enchanted, you know?

[Ryan]

Similarly, Tyler feels like that to me too, where, like, she is very ent. Like, when you're watching her, you're like, I can't stop watching.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. No, Tyler.

[Ryan]

Oh, no. I'm like, seeing her life change my.

[Sequoia]

Is that Illuminati? Oh, something is too enticing.

[Ryan]

Yes. It's. Seeing her life really made me. Cuz before I was like, oh, whatever. And then I was like, oh, I can't. It feels good. It's like you're underspelling.

[Sequoia]

I'm like, really a siren.

[Ryan]

Like, wow.

[Sequoia]

Away from this girl.

[Ryan]

And I don't know why.

[Sequoia]

I want my. My mind back. You've taken it from me, and I want it back.

[Ryan]

Wow. But yeah. But yeah. Sorry. We were on Dusty's Child and so the flip side.

[Sequoia]

So the flip side of their 106in park performance. Cuz it was the same song, I think.

[Ryan]

No, it wasn't.

[Sequoia]

Soulja.

[Ryan]

I just didn't do this.

[Sequoia]

I get Lose my breath and Soldier mixed up. Cuz they came out around the same time.

[Ryan]

That is the most insane album.

[Sequoia]

Came out around the same time.

[Ryan]

What does that have to do with.

[Sequoia]

They came out around the same time.

[Ryan]

Okay. What is that? They don't sound. They are liter. Different vibes. They're wholly different vibes.

[Sequoia]

Anyways, no, so.

[Ryan]

So every time. Britney Spears is. Every time and Toxic are on the same album.

[Sequoia]

Same know Every time. Every time I see you.

[Ryan]

Yeah. Same album, same song. You would not get those confused.

[Sequoia]

Soulja and Lose my Breath are similar in tempo. They're not. Yes, they are.

[Ryan]

I need a soldier. Are you kidding? They're not.

[Sequoia]

Well, you got it. I'm the hottest around.

[Ryan]

They're not.

[Sequoia]

I got a soldier.

[Ryan]

I.

[Sequoia]

They wore the same.

[Ryan]

You're moving the goal and sure.

[Sequoia]

Me trying to find it right.

[Ryan]

They.

[Sequoia]

They did the same thing. They wore the same. I don't know.

[Ryan]

Sure got It.

[Sequoia]

So they did soldier on 106 in part work. And they start out standing, like, on the stage. It's the three of them. They're doing, you know, the cube. They take a couple steps forward and Michelle hits the. Hits the floor. Wow. And they continue on. Beyonce look back said, get the up. Well, like, didn't say, but very much get up.

[Ryan]

Like, it's so funny. Like, at the time me. I mean, like, this was pre beam, but, like, it would have been the equivalent of a meme.

[Sequoia]

Oh, yeah.

[Ryan]

It was viral before viral. Like, everyone talking about. About it at school. The poor. I think that is when the. This sucks. There's a. I don't know if it still exists. There was a website called poor Michelle.com where they always would. This was the start of it where they showed that clip. And then you would just be a string of, like, her being on a lower podium, her being like. It was like, all the things that. Like how. Like, oh, my God.

[Sequoia]

I don't know.

[Ryan]

I hope that someone has taken this down.

[Sequoia]

I really hope I'm about to look poor michelle.com. is it still up Verifying you're human. Oh, no.

[Ryan]

They got rid of it. But yeah. So basically, like, this meme before meme, it was just like a string of all the kind of like, oh, poor Michelle. And like, it sucks because I'm like, all these women are incredibly talented. In the 2025 of it all, no one in Destiny's Child was untalented.

[Sequoia]

No.

[Ryan]

And, like, the thing about it is, like. Like to think about how talented Michelle and Kelly had to be to be next to Beyonce, I'm like, it's just. You're next to Beyonce.

[Sequoia]

I know.

[Ryan]

Like, and I. I feel like I remember thinking, like, oh, Beyonce didn't care about her falling. I'm sure she did. She's just like, we have to do performance.

[Sequoia]

Get up, girl. I don't know what I would do.

[Ryan]

Be helping you slow the whole thing down. But it was kind of.

[Sequoia]

It was. It really was. But I feel bad because Michelle talked about it recently, I believe, and she was saying how people still talk about it as, like, one of the main things that they remember.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

And I feel bad about that. It's like.

[Ryan]

And I think when someone asked her about it, she was like, I have done. She literally, like, listed. She, like, I've done, like, all the other things I've done. And that is still the thing you want to talk about. Like, and I feel for her. Like, I'm like, girl, at this point, it was 20 years ago.

[Sequoia]

Yes.

[Ryan]

I felt Beyonce has fallen on stage. I'm sure Kelly has fallen. I'm like, girl, I'm not the only person who has fallen, certainly. And I'm like, yeah, I, I. She's a Broadway star.

[Sequoia]

Oh, yes.

[Ryan]

Michelle's on Broadway.

[Sequoia]

Yes. She's very good.

[Ryan]

I saw her in Death Becomes Her. She's very good.

[Sequoia]

Oh, she's London.

[Ryan]

No, no, no. This was in New York. She did do Roxy Heart in Chicago.

[Sequoia]

In London.

[Ryan]

It's also been met, but either. Yes, but it was funny at the time.

[Sequoia]

Not going to lie. Another good moment. Raven Simone telling the audience, y' all don't buy my music.

[Ryan]

Are they always in that studio putting up music when nobody buys.

[Sequoia]

Oh, my God. And the audience had, like, a weird response. They said. And then somebody was like, I buy. You know, somebody, like, applaud or something. She was like, you don't buy my music. Shut up. You lying. Okay.

[Ryan]

And now I won't.

[Sequoia]

And now I won't. Yeah. Now I had a weird experience with you. I don't know. Raven is a Sagittarius, I believe Eve.

[Ryan]

Oh, that tracks.

[Sequoia]

Let me check. Raven's birthday is. But I'm like, 80. That she's a Sagittarius.

[Ryan]

Wow. That makes a lot of sense, because I feel like Raven was one of those people, like, seeing her on Disney. Her in real life feels drastically different. Like, she's not. I don't. She's not unlikable in real life. She's just so much more prickly in real life, where her on the show.

[Sequoia]

Seems so, like, so warm.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

Likable. Yeah. No. 100%.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

She's a Sagittarius. Yeah.

[Ryan]

It makes sense. Yeah. She's very, like. Oh, for sure feels.

[Sequoia]

She said, I'm gonna say what I say when I. And I meant when I said, what.

[Ryan]

Is Zendaya a Leo?

[Sequoia]

If I had to guess, I would guess Capricorn.

[Ryan]

I was gonna say cancer.

[Sequoia]

She's a Virgo. I'm almost.

[Ryan]

Oh, she is a Virgo. Actually, I do. Yeah, she is. Of course she is.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. Who. What else happened? So there was a Raven moment.

[Ryan]

You showed me this. You reminded me of this.

[Sequoia]

Oh, my God. Genuine pony performance. This is the performance where it's free and AJ hosting at the time. Time. And AJ's like, oh, genuine was supposed to perform, but he had, like, a health scare backstage. Like, something's going on. Not sure what's going on. And then they rush Genuine out onto the stage on a gurney, and he's Uncovered on the gurney wearing his red. All red.

[Ryan]

Sure.

[Sequoia]

The leather. Right moment and they want to do the heart thing on them.

[Ryan]

Defibrillator.

[Sequoia]

The defibrillator on them.

[Ryan]

Not real though. The thing is they don't actually have one.

[Sequoia]

They just put that he, you know, know comes up and then he jumps up. You're right. Let's do it straight into it.

[Ryan]

Same.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. That was hilarious.

[Ryan]

Crazy.

[Sequoia]

That was a good black ass time camp. That was. It really was. It was. Who says straight men kidnapped should couldn't be camp. And I'm gonna say why?

[Ryan]

Hey rappers. Straight men, boys do have fun. You can have fun.

[Sequoia]

Get back to it.

[Ryan]

Get back to.

[Sequoia]

Get back to it. I really do miss red pill right now. Oh, is that why I. I fear maybe I think it's the male loneliness epidemic of it all.

[Ryan]

That they can't have fun.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

I don't.

[Sequoia]

They too worried about how to control women in order to get them.

[Ryan]

What does that to do with loneliness?

[Sequoia]

They're lonely cuz they can't get and cuz they friends don't. They don't want to talk to their friends cuz that's soft.

[Ryan]

Oh, okay.

[Sequoia]

They want to talk to and have sex with women.

[Ryan]

Oh.

[Sequoia]

And they can't do either. Oh and since. So then they have to read a bunch of content and listen to a bunch of podcasts about how to get women trick women into. Oh, you know, because. Yeah. How to get them. Yeah. How to manipulate them into falling for you.

[Ryan]

It's so crazy that we're now getting on a tangent. Whatever. Because I'm like, do they ever investigate does this man have a woman? I think that's always my thought. The man I'm listening to.

[Sequoia]

They always do. They always have like they always. Oh, they're always touting around. Around some.

[Ryan]

Oh well, you know. But sorry, it's. That's not Instagram saying do one more level of thinking. Like I just need you to think like one more layer of like all right, this girl's with. With this man. Is she?

[Sequoia]

I agree. I agree. Personally.

[Ryan]

One more layer of questions.

[Sequoia]

Right. And would she be with him if he stopped throwing a bunch of money at her?

[Ryan]

Right.

[Sequoia]

Because that's also part of the allure is like well, I'm gonna show you how to get rich and how to get.

[Ryan]

And also like he's getting rich off of you.

[Sequoia]

Off of you, dummy.

[Ryan]

Right now.

[Sequoia]

Right? Right now he's not rich and he has no. So now.

[Ryan]

So what are we doing?

[Sequoia]

So he's you.

[Ryan]

Yeah, he's You.

[Sequoia]

Without you.

[Ryan]

Yes. And the only way you can do this is it's like a pyramid scheme. It's an mlm. Because then you have to start doing this.

[Sequoia]

So then you have to start scamming the likes of you to get money in order to get insane. Yeah, okay.

[Ryan]

Sure.

[Sequoia]

There's that. Anyways, in the Terence and Roxy era, right?

[Ryan]

This is where I checked out.

[Sequoia]

Okay, so you weren't terr.

[Ryan]

Okay.

[Sequoia]

Okay.

[Ryan]

Terence. I distinctly remember him as a person. I think by this time, I was starting to fall out of it.

[Sequoia]

Okay. So there was this one really awkward moment. There was always speculation that Terence and Roxy were dating.

[Ryan]

Oh.

[Sequoia]

And he makes this really off Joke, mind you. 106. Mark was live, right. There's like, Yeah, I don't think I knew live. Yeah. Yeah. And so they're clearly throwing little jabs at each other, like, for this one specific episode. And really, like, okay, like, this is weird tension. And then he makes this one comment about her body. I don't remember the exact comment, but he says something about her body, and she storms off the set. She just walks off live.

[Ryan]

Oh, my God. No, I did not know that this happened. Drama.

[Sequoia]

It was. Did she come back even? I think, after the commercial break, like, she, like. She, like, heard it, like, scoffs and, like, like, what walks off. And then Terrence, like, he, like, holds it down by, you know, by himself for the next little amount of time before they, like, cut to the next whatever situation. It was crazy.

[Ryan]

That sounds mad.

[Sequoia]

And he, like, made an off comment once. She walked off, too. He said something like, oh, somebody's sensitive or something.

[Ryan]

You know what's crazy? Like, I. I'm having, like, a flash of something. Like, I feel like I remember they were, like, standing somewhere, and I do think I distinctly remember him, like, kind of turn. Turning towards her, saying something and then anyway and going back to it.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

I feel like I have seen this clip. It's coming back where I'm. Yikes. Embarrassing or, like, weird. How do you have a career for that? Like, he's gone on to the acting.

[Sequoia]

This was his job. And Also, this was 2000, you know, like, making comments about women's body was, like, acceptable at this time. Yeah. And, you know, they were like. It was good for ratings, more or less. It was like, oh, are they. Will they, Won't they? Like, what's going on with them? Yeah.

[Ryan]

Yikes.

[Sequoia]

Put her on.

[Ryan]

Poor Roxy.

[Sequoia]

I know. And then he went on to start hanging out with Michael Jordan and what, Dating an influencer named Golden Barbie.

[Ryan]

I am so sorry. I. The last thing I remember him is in Think Like a Man. He. He's. Is he not?

[Sequoia]

I actually don't know what Terrence does now. I have no clue. What? Terrence? What? Terrence Howard. Terrence J. Does.

[Ryan]

J. Howard. He's Terrence J. Howard. Is he not?

[Sequoia]

Is he.

[Ryan]

I'm asking.

[Sequoia]

No, I don't think.

[Ryan]

Did I add the Howard?

[Sequoia]

I think you. I think you.

[Ryan]

I'm just combining Terrence J. Howard.

[Sequoia]

I think you might have made that up.

[Ryan]

Just making that up. Him hanging out with Michael B. Jordan feels weird because isn't he older? He feels he's too old for Michael B. Jordan.

[Sequoia]

You know why? He's 43.

[Ryan]

And I feel like Michael Jordan 38.

[Sequoia]

6.

[Ryan]

He's 30.

[Sequoia]

He might be 40 even at this point.

[Ryan]

I don't believe that yet. Wow. I don't think I realized that.

[Sequoia]

Age. 38. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Oh, okay. They're closer than I thought.

[Sequoia]

They're five years apart.

[Ryan]

For some reason, I thought. When I think of. I think because Terence was famous earlier.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

He seems distinctly older than Michael B. Jordan does to me.

[Sequoia]

I get that. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

Anyways. Yeah. I don't know what happened to Terrence, but yeah. That day, Roxy was not. Not playing with him at all. Had it.

[Ryan]

Imagine being at your job and you like, now what? Now I can't yell back because then I'm a.

[Sequoia]

Right.

[Ryan]

Now I'm fired.

[Sequoia]

I wonder if Roxy's race was ever.

[Ryan]

She. Ambiguous. I remember her being ambiguously Latina.

[Sequoia]

Ambiguous to me. Roxy Puerto Rican. Yeah. Certainly ambiguous to me.

[Ryan]

Oh, it's giving. Is she related to Rosia Rosio? What is the actress? What is not Rosie O'Darce.

[Sequoia]

Oh, Rosario Darcy.

[Ryan]

No, not her.

[Sequoia]

Dawson.

[Ryan]

No, but I mean, she does. There's an actress who I think's name is Rosie. Rosie something. I think it's Rosie Donald. Shut the. You know, Rosie Diaz. And I wonder if that's her mother. I legitimately think that's Rosie Diaz's name.

[Sequoia]

Okay.

[Ryan]

But if that does not show up under Roxy, then that's not her mother.

[Sequoia]

I'm so sorry. Her. I just googled her race.

[Ryan]

It's.

[Sequoia]

And her ethnicity, and it is still very.

[Ryan]

Is it like that ad Beyonce did where for Pantene where she was like, I'm Creole and also three parts native and French. Remember that? There was a whole series of Pantene commercials where they.

[Sequoia]

I remember Beyonce. Pantene commercial. I. I don't remember that.

[Ryan]

They talked about their race and she said, like, seven things. I'm like, now, girl. Ms. B. Ms. Ma'.

[Sequoia]

Am. It says Roxy Diaz is of. Of Honduran birth with Chilean descent.

[Ryan]

Sure.

[Sequoia]

Okay. Okay. Openly discuss being of Mayan descent as confirmed by a DNA. So she was not black.

[Ryan]

Can you not be? Do you have to be black to be on 106 park, you think?

[Sequoia]

To be on BET to be black Entertainment Television. I would like a black female host. Yeah, yeah, I would. I would for sure.

[Ryan]

Personally, I feel you at least Afro Latina if we at least, you know.

[Sequoia]

At least visibly black to some where. I'm like, oh, yeah, get free was black.

[Ryan]

Is black.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

And like, like, notably, distinctly, like, she looks like a black woman.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. Get a. A la negra if you wanted to.

[Ryan]

Wow.

[Sequoia]

You know, cross over.

[Ryan]

Who very black. Like, yeah, Amar. Like, until I hear her name, I'm like, I just. It's a black lady, right?

[Sequoia]

Amar. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Wait. Oh, yes. I feel like that was the One thing about 106 in park is that their host stuck out in a way.

[Sequoia]

The TR host did not stick out.

[Ryan]

I agree, cuz, like, and then. Oh, then Bow Wow became the host. Did he host it with Sierra at.

[Sequoia]

One point in time or was.

[Ryan]

He probably was just hosting.

[Sequoia]

Probably was just. Exactly. She probably was just hosting it. They were there and you know, there was. They were dating. I don't know. They're dating at that time.

[Ryan]

Right?

[Sequoia]

Cuz I feel like they were dating well before he started his hosting career.

[Ryan]

What a track record of dating for this lady. I'm thinking about the fact that she dated Bow Wow is insane.

[Sequoia]

Bow wow future Russell. God really smashed her out. The trench is good.

[Ryan]

He said, you know what? You've suffered enough.

[Sequoia]

I'm so sorry. Come on, baby, let's get you. Let's get you a home.

[Ryan]

Maybe he does reward his strongest self.

[Sequoia]

He does. Cuz she had to be strong. They said that. Oh, my God. They were saying that, man, that. That man, that woman had a penis. She was. She was already towering over small little Bow Wow Wow.

[Ryan]

I mean, her and Rihanna used to beef about the like, good luck.

[Sequoia]

Good luck booking that stages of what you speak is so crazy.

[Ryan]

It's funny. I saw someone tweet the other day was like, see Rihanna? I wish that. I think they were referring to Nicki Minaj. But they were like, I wish Nicki Minaj could be more like Rihanna. She's always uplifting younger artists. And I'm like, y' all don't know.

[Sequoia]

Y' all are new here. Y' all are very much new here.

[Ryan]

Bully.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. Actually, Rihanna was willing to take it there every time. And still to this day, I fear if you push her.

[Ryan]

I agree.

[Sequoia]

In a live situation, you're gonna.

[Ryan]

You're gonna get it. Just a mother. And off the Internet.

[Sequoia]

Off the Internet, they told her her baby, give me your password. You won't be logging back in, cuz I'm out. For me.

[Ryan]

Y' all want to talk about people being mean girls? Rihanna is a mean Girl.

[Sequoia]

Girl. Okay, 106 and Park. Most played music videos.

[Ryan]

Wait, what were they? This is good information. I don't know.

[Sequoia]

Know. Put it on Me Ja Rule featuring Lil Mo. Put it on me, girl Put it.

[Ryan]

On me, girl Put it on me. That's insane. That it's number like crazy. Too high for me.

[Sequoia]

Let Me hold you by Bow and Omaran.

[Ryan]

Knowing that Jermaine Dupree made the show, you taught me that.

[Sequoia]

Hello.

[Ryan]

Made. Makes sense. That's Paola.

[Sequoia]

That's My Name by Bow wow.

[Ryan]

Oh, are they all just Bow Wow.

[Sequoia]

Songs at this point? Two. Two of them. Yep.

[Ryan]

What's. That's My Name Sing it. I don't remember exactly.

[Sequoia]

I'm sure I know it.

[Ryan]

If I heard it, I legitimately can't even think of how the song would go.

[Sequoia]

Me neither. Let's find out.

[Ryan]

Are Bow Wow and Amarian still friends?

[Sequoia]

You know, probably not. Tbh. You know, egos at this time were. Were astronomical.

[Ryan]

Oh, no, they just did a tour together. Did they not do lovers?

[Sequoia]

Oh, they did. It wasn't lovers and friends. It was something similar. Yeah, it was that other one. It was there.

[Ryan]

Millennial.

[Sequoia]

Millennial. The Millennium Tour. Oh, do you pay for YouTube?

[Ryan]

No. Someone has, like, yesterday. Someone's like, pay for the. I'm like, what the. Who's paying for YouTube Premium?

[Sequoia]

That's cr.

[Ryan]

You do.

[Sequoia]

No. Oh, Garrick does What? Oh, Bow Wow Wow. Yippee, yo, yippee. Yay. Hey, where my dogs at? Bark with me now.

[Ryan]

Out the gate. He was, like, sponsoring this little person. I'm like, that song's not a hit. That song's not bad.

[Sequoia]

That song's not a hit. Is insane.

[Ryan]

You think it's a hit?

[Sequoia]

Yeah, it was. It was an urban hit. An urban radio hit. Yeah, it was. Thank you.

[Ryan]

It went number one on the urban chart.

[Sequoia]

It really did.

[Ryan]

I believe that.

[Sequoia]

Foolish by Ashanti.

[Ryan]

I believe it. Sure love that song.

[Sequoia]

Be without you, Mary J. Blige. That feels random.

[Ryan]

I don't. I don't. That song was.

[Sequoia]

No, it was everywhere. It just feels like. It feels distinctly different from the rest of these, like, the rest of these have a summer vibe, aside from bow wows.

[Ryan]

That's my name.

[Sequoia]

Yes.

[Ryan]

But I think that song was Mary J. Bl. Cuz I forget what album that was. But that was like. And forgive me for I was a kid when Mary J. Was a baby.

[Sequoia]

I agree.

[Ryan]

But that was like Mary J. Bl, like, crossover. Like white people in that song. So I think that's why that's.

[Sequoia]

I can't be without you, baby, not do. I saw somebody list. Draw out a list of medium singers, singers who, like, can't really sing that well, but, like, can hold the tune. Mary J. Blige is on that list. And I said, absolutely.

[Ryan]

That is fair.

[Sequoia]

When people list her as one of the best singers of all time, I am so confused by it.

[Ryan]

It just makes me stop listening.

[Sequoia]

I'm so over it.

[Ryan]

You know what people, like, try to give you, like, here. Blah, blah, blah. They try to give you credible things and then they name. You're like, all right.

[Sequoia]

You're like, that's what I'm dealing with. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Like, okay, I don't believe anything you said.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. I don't. Yeah. If you tell me Mary J. Blige is one of the best singers of all time.

[Ryan]

Stop.

[Sequoia]

I'm like, what do you mean? You mean best musicians? Like, you really enjoy her music of all time? Like, okay. One of your favorite musicians of all time. Best singers of all time. Feels really silly.

[Ryan]

Like, we.

[Sequoia]

But okay.

[Ryan]

I would give you. Most unique. I would give you. I would. I'm not. I would give you. You could say. I would like. Sure. I cannot argue with that.

[Sequoia]

Right.

[Ryan]

Best.

[Sequoia]

Hello. Crazy Britney Spears. I would also describe her as a medium singer. Singer.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

Maybe even less.

[Ryan]

I. Yeah. I'm like. She kind of continued whisper singing.

[Sequoia]

Right.

[Ryan]

She's a daughter of Janet.

[Sequoia]

Right.

[Ryan]

Who also. Yeah. Kind of whisper.

[Sequoia]

Medium singer. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

[Ryan]

Singing a vibe. Rihanna singing. I don't call her medium.

[Sequoia]

A vibe. She's singing, say, medium for Riri lover Aaliyah. Medium. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Yes.

[Sequoia]

Anyways, how do we.

[Ryan]

Yeah. What are the rest of these songs?

[Sequoia]

That's it.

[Ryan]

Oh, Mary Bl.

[Sequoia]

Put it on me. Let me hold you. You. That's my name. Foolish and be without you.

[Ryan]

That's kind of crazy. That is a kind of all over the place list. Foolish doesn't feel the same as be without you. It's some. It's not as summery.

[Sequoia]

No.

[Ryan]

See, my days ago. That feels summary too. I love that song. God. Sorry. It's just it's so nostalgic to me.

[Sequoia]

Oh. Other highly played videos.

[Ryan]

Oh, there's more.

[Sequoia]

Huh? There's. So there's. So these are the retired hall of fame. Hall of Fame.

[Ryan]

Oh, so retirement. Like they played it too much and they like we have to put.

[Sequoia]

It's getting so silly. Three of these are Bow Wow songs.

[Ryan]

So. Okay. There we go. Right.

[Sequoia]

None of which I could tell you what they sound like paler. Take you home, bow out. Bow wow. Thank you. Bow wow. The.

[Ryan]

Is that so. Wait. Thank you Might have been during. Which we didn't talk about. Cuz the first time I checked that of 106 in park was 911.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

And I think they got sad and thank you. Feels like maybe it was one of those songs.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. Also when Aaliyah died, they also got really long time. I remember that TR tribute too. They brought in like a bunch of people like DMX and the Brat and. Yeah. And Timberland, of course. And just like a lot of people that they brought in more than a woman. By Leah.

[Ryan]

Sure.

[Sequoia]

Differences by genuine. I don't know the song Naked by Marcus Houston.

[Ryan]

Why does that sound vaguely familiar?

[Sequoia]

Naked? I'm not sure about naked.

[Ryan]

I don't think I know that.

[Sequoia]

My Baby by Lil Romeo.

[Ryan]

Sure. I'm surprised they even made this baby.

[Sequoia]

Give me one more chance.

[Ryan]

Come on.

[Sequoia]

Give me, give me. I don't know.

[Ryan]

Guess.

[Sequoia]

I guess. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Okay.

[Sequoia]

Love by Kisha Cole. Love.

[Ryan]

It's still a hit to this day. That one holds.

[Sequoia]

It's because people love to sing along with that one. I'm sure. I'm sure. People TV screaming.

[Ryan]

Good thing. The camera off.

[Sequoia]

That's generous. Yeah. Oh, I forgot. On Block by Kisha Cole on Twitter. Years ago. From like years, years, years ago.

[Ryan]

Funny.

[Sequoia]

And I don't. I don't even think I added her. I think I just said that she couldn't sing. I think I told you. And I looked up and somebody was talking. I said, I can't find her Twitter.

[Ryan]

So. Well, they were like, she hates you.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. Holiday Inn by Chingy.

[Ryan]

Oh, God. Great song.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. What you doing at the Holiday? He's a St. Louis native. That's Missouri. That's your next of the woods.

[Ryan]

And then Missouri. Famous Missouri.

[Sequoia]

One Call Away by Chingi, which I love. Only one call away. Look all over me and you were my baby.

[Ryan]

Who's singing with him?

[Sequoia]

Jason Weaver.

[Ryan]

Sure.

[Sequoia]

You know who that is?

[Ryan]

No. He is. He's Mufasa.

[Sequoia]

Smart guy. Older brother. Yes.

[Ryan]

You've told me this. You have a crush on him. I remember this yesterday.

[Sequoia]

Jason Weaver. Yes.

[Ryan]

Wow.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Where the is he today? Is he alive?

[Sequoia]

I don't know. I hope he's okay. I mean, I'm assuming he has to be.

[Ryan]

If he's not in the news for doing something crazy, he's probably fine.

[Sequoia]

He's fine because the Lion King, he got royal. They got a royalty deal off that.

[Ryan]

Oh.

[Sequoia]

Like his mom made sure that that contract was like, he is fine.

[Ryan]

He's definitely fine. Yeah. Maybe that's what he's like. I'm shutting the up sitting down now.

[Sequoia]

Something I feel like is missing from this list is Pulling Me Back by Chingy and Tyrese.

[Ryan]

So when you were saying the. Whatever that last song was, I was starting to sing.

[Sequoia]

Every time I try to leave, something keeps pulling me back, me back, telling.

[Ryan]

Me that was Tyrese.

[Sequoia]

Oh, yes.

[Ryan]

Wow. I forgot that was him. Is it. Whose song is it? Chingy and Tyrese is just singing.

[Sequoia]

It's. I think it's Tyrese.

[Ryan]

That big?

[Sequoia]

Yeah, Tyrese was big.

[Ryan]

I mean, sweet lady, the way you started. You.

[Sequoia]

You. I did. I did.

[Ryan]

Your cadence was.

[Sequoia]

Lady.

[Ryan]

The is.

[Sequoia]

Lady.

[Ryan]

That is not the melody.

[Sequoia]

It wasn't at all. It was sweet.

[Ryan]

That's also not it. It's sweet lady.

[Sequoia]

I'm starting off on the first lyric.

[Ryan]

Oh, okay.

[Sequoia]

Sweet lady.

[Ryan]

I don't know what this is.

[Sequoia]

I want you to be my lady. Lady. Okay, Sweet lady.

[Ryan]

That's where I'm at. I don't know what the that first thing was at all.

[Sequoia]

I'm screaming. Okay, now I'm looking at the TRL list, and I'm sure it's just a bunch of the most iconic videos from MTV's TRO, which is silly. Baby. One more time, I'm assuming.

[Ryan]

What? As if. What's McConnell? Slavery. He's not on there. Then they're wrong.

[Sequoia]

Okay.

[Ryan]

Slave for you is a great video.

[Sequoia]

I love that music video. Oh, I love that. I don't like that song. I've never liked the song.

[Ryan]

Oh, I do. It makes me feel bad.

[Sequoia]

I always like that music video.

[Ryan]

I'm conflicted.

[Sequoia]

I know. Never really felt that conflicted about it to be. Oh, but I do.

[Ryan]

But I understand.

[Sequoia]

I do understand.

[Ryan]

I was like, damn, I love it. Oh, okay. You're right. That video is very fine.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. No, no, no. The music video is great.

[Ryan]

I just like that one part. That eight count.

[Sequoia]

Yes.

[Ryan]

That when she breaks.

[Sequoia]

And I remember she was sick. I remember hearing that she was sick. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Cuz they. That was when MTV used to do the behind the Scenes. And they show that she.

[Sequoia]

And that's why everybody looks sweaty and stuff. They were like, sweat them up, up. Because she's sick. Yeah, she gave that quick. And she gave it.

[Ryan]

She did a one take.

[Sequoia]

Now watch me. So good.

[Ryan]

So good.

[Sequoia]

Hey, y'. All. Yeah.

[Ryan]

Yeah. Still played at weddings for sure. Great song.

[Sequoia]

Survivor.

[Ryan]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. Wow.

[Sequoia]

Dirty Christine Aguilar. Dilemma. Kelly Roland. This is one of these songs that I never could hear again in my life. It was so overplayed. It was so oversaturated.

[Ryan]

I'm like, I liked it at the time. I agree. I don't ever need to hear it again.

[Sequoia]

I always liked at the time and I don't ever need to.

[Ryan]

If I'm going to hear something like that, I'd rather hear my boo.

[Sequoia]

And I don't want to hear that one. I never want to hear that one again.

[Ryan]

You don't like Alicia Keys?

[Sequoia]

I don't. Less than medium singer. Okay. D plus, C minus. My God. Beyonce. Crazy in love.

[Ryan]

Sure. Of course.

[Sequoia]

I write sins, not tragedies. Now I do like that. TRL definitely had a mix of genres.

[Ryan]

Yes.

[Sequoia]

I didn't realize that.

[Ryan]

Oh, my God. I didn't get trl. Was everybody.

[Sequoia]

Another song that I could never hear again in my life. Yeah. By Usher.

[Ryan]

Oh, I agree. My God. Any basement party, it was the worst. You know what? For the best of times, we had a good music. For college parties, we also had a lot of. Like that.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Like something about the algorithm is that we were avoiding things like that. You won't get a happy today. You can't get a happy.

[Sequoia]

God. That's all. I actually feel disgust thinking about. Yeah. And thinking about happy. I can't.

[Ryan]

Same with that troll song from Justin Timberlake.

[Sequoia]

I got that sunshine in my pocket.

[Ryan]

Hate it.

[Sequoia]

I have never personally purposefully found that song. And why do I know it like, you know?

[Ryan]

Both of those songs are from children's movies.

[Sequoia]

Avoided it.

[Ryan]

Both of those are still literally from children's movies.

[Sequoia]

Made its way back to me. Anyways.

[Ryan]

Hellscape.

[Sequoia]

That's really it. The MTV and the trl. It was.

[Ryan]

It was a distinct time. Very far.

[Sequoia]

It was a distinct time. Oh, TR was the videos that aired the longest on the top 10. Okay, wait. There's a separate list for that.

[Ryan]

I'm sure. What are they?

[Sequoia]

It is. Baby. One more time.

[Ryan]

Of course.

[Sequoia]

Real Slim Shady.

[Ryan]

Of course.

[Sequoia]

I want it that way. Bye. Bye, bye. Oh, dirty.

[Ryan]

Oh, yeah. Not that. But yes.

[Sequoia]

Bod Tidba Show Me by Kid Ross.

[Ryan]

Let me See it.

[Sequoia]

Look at the way that that's filled. Bod Tiba.

[Ryan]

I don't. I don't know what that is.

[Sequoia]

I've never heard of her. Bod Tiba.

[Ryan]

I don't think I know the song. Is that a typo?

[Sequoia]

I don't know. Crazy in Love by Beyonce. Yeah. By Usher. What's my age again? Blink182 and hey, yeah by Outcast Biba. What is that? How does it go? Do we. Will we recognize it?

[Ryan]

Probably have to. If it's that big. I don't. I don't. I didn't want to hear anymore.

[Sequoia]

I didn't want to hear any more of that.

[Ryan]

Whatever the that was.

[Sequoia]

Is that the. Just keep going, rolling maybe.

[Ryan]

I think that that's something else, but that would be. That would make sense.

[Sequoia]

Just keep rolling, rolling.

[Ryan]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Sequoia]

Wait. Thoughts on the Downfall former okay, TRL Downfall. Former host Carson Daly described the media atmosphere after his departure from TRL in an interview with TV Guide. MySpace was sold, he says social networking took off. The technology went crazy. The whole tectonic shift of mass media. There was a lot of reasons why TRL became the kind of different show after I left. I don't necessarily think it had anything to do with me leaving as much as it had to do with the changing landscape. And we continue to see that.

[Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. It's like the tiktokation of it all. Like, our attention spans are shorter, we're more segmented. And like what we're saying earlier, we're not. There's no kind of monoculture and there's no meeting place for a TRL type of thing.

[Sequoia]

Right.

[Ryan]

Because we want what we want. Right. I don't care about your thing. I don't want to find new things. I want what I like.

[Sequoia]

The only other thing I feel like music was more segregated at the time. Although it wasn't more siloed, it was more segregated.

[Ryan]

I agree.

[Sequoia]

Like, black people listen to black music music, which is why BET was a thing. And white people listen to white music for the most part. Yeah. Like top 40 music.

[Ryan]

So much so that like they would make songs with like, where they would have a rapper featured to be played on urban radio. Pop stars would to be played on urban radio and then on top 40 stations, they would just cut the rap.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

Even things like, like, even like tlc, which obviously was a crossover band about that. They would like there would be certain stations that we would have that would be like, oh, they're playing a hip hop so song or a song I'm like, oh, I can't wait for the rap.

[Sequoia]

Rap. Right.

[Ryan]

And they would not play it cuz it's not urban radio.

[Sequoia]

Wow.

[Ryan]

Even think about like TLC's no Scrubs. The. The rap does not get played on certain radio stations. Like they would just go straight into.

[Sequoia]

So true.

[Ryan]

Yeah. I'm saying like that you know who.

[Sequoia]

Really bridged that gap is Mariah Carey.

[Ryan]

Yes.

[Sequoia]

She really bridged that gap. She worked with rappers and like put them on her music in a way that they couldn't cut. Their verse, you know, was like very intertwined.

[Ryan]

Like this is it. Yeah. But yeah, no, I.

[Sequoia]

He.

[Ryan]

Carson D is definitely right. And I think that like this was such a specific moment in time and it was. I'm. I'm grateful that we kind of like came up in that space. I think it was a fun time.

[Sequoia]

To be a kid. Very fun. I'm really grateful that I did not grow up in the tik tok era.

[Ryan]

Seems harder.

[Sequoia]

Seems harder. Definitely. It seems harder on the mental health. Seem harder on the well.

[Ryan]

And just less. I don't want to say less fun. I'm sure everybody has fun. I'm sure people are having fun. But for sure I think you're fun. Less room to play. Play and experiment.

[Sequoia]

Mistakes for sure. Yeah. Also less cultured. I will say like my niece wholeheartedly does not know music outside of the music that she listens to.

[Ryan]

Oh.

[Sequoia]

You know, whereas we. I know my parents, I know music from the 60s, I know music from the 70s, 80s, 90s. I was born and you know, I know music 30 years before me and 30 years after me. But I feel like my niece only knows, like she won't know.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Sequoia]

If I play Bob Marley, she's not going to know the song until it.

[Ryan]

Becomes a tik tok trend.

[Sequoia]

Until becomes the TikTok. And she's like, oh yeah, I know the song. But I'm like, that's crazy to me. I feel like we're really losing recipes. For real. Not to sound like old head, but I'm like, damn. I'm actually feeling like we're losing recipes. It's scary. Yeah.

[Ryan]

And less interest to try.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. 100. Like even when I play stuff in the car, if it's not me prefacing it like, oh, this is a pop girl that I think you will like.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sequoia]

She doesn't want to hear it. She's like wild. Yeah. Anyways, that's really it.

[Ryan]

I know.

[Sequoia]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

I mean it was a fun to walk down memory lane. Did not Know that that was Minnie Rippleton. A B did not know about her having cancer.

[Sequoia]

Oh, is that the song about her?

[Ryan]

Song is about her dying and she's saying I don't want to walk down memory lane. Yes, it's quite sad. Quite sad song.

[Sequoia]

Well.

[Ryan]

Well, yeah. TR's fun though. Yeah, Very, very fun time.

[Sequoia]

Of course. Everything was a good time per usual. You can find us on social media at BPL pod. You can email at black people love paramore gmail.com new name. Yes. Y' all told me not to which. Which really tripped me up. Yeah. So I'm like, well then you going have to tell your friends about the show.

[Ryan]

Make up.

[Sequoia]

Then you're going to have to tell your friends about the show. We're going to have to up the popularity. Like something has to give, baby girl. Cuz right now I'm thinking, I'm thinking it's going to be called like exclusive. I'm thinking not exclusive. I came up with this in the shower today because I have several iterations but sure. What I came up in the shower today was the pop girls or the pop culture girls.

[Ryan]

G R O L S. Yeah, but.

[Sequoia]

Then I was like, does that sound just like gay black men?

[Ryan]

So I was going to say girls.

[Sequoia]

Right? And I'm like, no, but it's black people. The girls and the gays. Really?

[Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sequoia]

You know, so then I don't know that sound.

[Ryan]

Yeah, no, that just makes me think gay. Gay. My son moves. You don't know. You don't know that meme, do you?

[Sequoia]

You what? Me?

[Ryan]

My son moved to the city and now he's gay.

[Sequoia]

No. Gay. Okay, never mind.

[Ryan]

Doesn't.

[Sequoia]

Am I not an ally? I don't know.

[Ryan]

That one's. That's pretty white gay. So I can see why you wouldn't know that. That's an early YouTube. White gay.

[Sequoia]

So I know that. I do know Fred and I know shoes.

[Ryan]

Shoes is fun. Did you know that he edits? You do know this. He edits for the Try guys.

[Sequoia]

No, I didn't know that.

[Ryan]

The name of that actor. I shouldn't know his name. But yeah, he's like. He works at the Try guys.

[Sequoia]

Yeah. What? Yeah. Wow, that's. That's incredible. I saw that he performed at 5.

[Ryan]

He did, yeah, Yeah.

[Sequoia]

I thought that was very cool. And the crowd was not hype enough.

[Ryan]

Again, losing recipes because I'm like you.

[Sequoia]

Exactly.

[Ryan]

You don't understand when the Internet was weird.

[Sequoia]

Understand how viral that was in 2007.

[Ryan]

Before viral was a thing. He's the reason we have viral shoes.

[Sequoia]

The m shoes suck.

[Ryan]

These shoes suck so good. Oh, God.

[Sequoia]

So anyways, that's really it.

[Ryan]

Yeah. Viral made me think of Carson did. This is. I'm tying it in T. Find it.

[Sequoia]

I'm finding it.

[Ryan]

I'm finding it. Crank. That first viral song who? And they did go on 106 in park. And I'm like, it is crazy to think that, like, that was probably the beginning of the end because, like, he was. I'll give soldier boy his credit there.

[Sequoia]

He's the reason.

[Ryan]

He's the reason I'm like, he was the first kind of viral song to, like. He was the one who kind of infiltrated this system.

[Sequoia]

And the reason is you. And the reason is you.

[Ryan]

Yeah, he infiltrated the system by having a song that was not mainstream but, like, had to be recognized on tv. And then since then, everyone's like, I can be famous on my own.

[Sequoia]

Wow.

[Ryan]

Soldier boy's fault.

[Sequoia]

Everything is that man's fault.

[Ryan]

I wouldn't give him that much credit.

[Sequoia]

That's a his fault anyways. Okay, that's it. Bye, guys.

[Ryan]

Bye.