Black People Love Paramore
Episode: Wicked
Date: February 20, 2025
Hosts: Sequoia Holmes & Ryann Graham
Overview
In this lively and comedic episode of Black People Love Paramore, hosts Sequoia Holmes and Ryann Graham do a deep, critical, and irreverent dive into the world of Wicked – both the Broadway musical and its much-anticipated film adaptation, particularly in light of the recent Oscar nomination and pop culture ripple effects. The conversation spans from cultural moments surrounding the musical, casting choices and “cash drama,” personal connections to the show, sharp observations about Black representation, and the ever-presence of Internet-fueled drama. Along the way, they roast and reflect on the characters, performances, and personal Wicked-related beefs—with their signature wit.
Main Discussion Points & Insights
1. Why Wicked? (00:53)
- Wicked's relevance resurfaces with Oscar buzz (Ariana Grande's nomination) and an adaptation starring Ariana and Cynthia Erivo.
- Sequoia and Ryann riff on their musical theater upbringings and share their varying levels of pre-existing affinity for Wicked.
2. Ariana Grande’s EGOT Potential & Broadway Chops (01:52; 11:43)
- In-depth debate about Ariana’s awards trajectory: “I think she’s definitely in her Broadway bag now…that Tony is probably closer. That Oscar, she—I don’t know.” (A, 02:15)
- Discussion of Ariana’s past TV roles (“Victorious”), doubts around her casting in Wicked, and how she won over director John Chu through multiple auditions (“…she kept being the most interesting person in the room.” – A, 12:09)
- Ryann and Sequoia agree Ariana embodies Glinda and successfully sheds her pop persona for the role.
3. The Origin and Layered History of Wicked (05:22–06:38)
- Ryann explains Wicked’s roots, tracing it from L. Frank Baum’s Wizard of Oz, through Gregory Maguire’s 1995 Wicked novel, to the 2003 Broadway hit. Fascinating tidbit: Wicked was a “post-movie prequel written decades after the original,” (B, 06:15) resulting in fresh, political and campy energy.
4. Wicked’s Political Currents and Timeliness (06:38–07:39)
- Ryann brings up political satire embedded in lyrics (e.g., George Bush jokes in “Popular”) and how the musical remains eerily timely: “Every time Wicked is coming around, something’s bad in the world…” (A, 07:11).
- Sequoia draws parallels to the “lipstick effect” (07:19) and contemporary anxieties.
5. Casting and Representation: On Ariana, Cynthia, and Diversity (09:00; 23:39; 54:09)
- Praise for Jonathan Chu as director, with a nuanced sidestep into Asian-American casting debates connected to “Crazy Rich Asians.”
- Both hosts laud Cynthia Erivo’s singular voice and acting prowess (“It just feels like it’s falling out of her mouth…Effortless” – B, 23:43).
- Discussion of the significance of having Cynthia and a Black Elphaba, noting the Black-coded undertones of the character and the rarity of Black actresses in the role: “There’s only been two Black Elphabas before Cynthia Erivo.” (B, 54:18)
6. Comparing Stage vs. Movie Wicked (16:00+)
- Ryann shares memories as a theater kid, first encountering Wicked in London; contrasts the depth of stage characterizations vs. the film.
- Sequoia describes experiencing the musical with “fresh eyes” through the film and the LA Pantages staging, noting different emotional takeaways from Glinda’s character between the versions.
7. Glinda and Elphaba: Character Dissection (15:58–22:48)
- Detailed debate about whether Glinda is “shallow, dumb, or calculated,” with Ryann defending her complexity: “She’s too calculated to be dumb.” (B, 18:20)
- Sequoia is more critical, finding Glinda “super one-dimensional” and emblematic of white privilege.
- Discussion segues into contemporary social/political parallels (i.e. privilege, allyship), with pointed takeaways: “Again, nothing changes unless the dominant people…change it.” (A, 57:12)
8. Musical and Performance Highlights (41:19–41:56)
- Both hosts praise standout musical numbers: Ryann for “The Wizard and I,” and Sequoia for “Defying Gravity.”
- On “Defying Gravity”: “Winning despite limitations…it’s like, I wasn’t supposed to be here, but here I am…and I did that.” (A, 42:18)
- The impact of performance on viewers, especially Black women, is noted: “I’ve seen lots of particularly Black women feeling like they catch the holy Spirit during that.” (B, 41:43)
9. Notable Cast Drama and Internet Speculation (36:15–48:37)
- Sequoia and Ryann fully recap the “Ethan Slater–Ariana Grande–divorce–baby–backstage” tabloid drama, with hilarious and incredulous reactions:
- “Let me tell you something. I would wipe the floor with…both of you.” (A, 43:22)
- Musings on “proximity attraction” and why “pretty girls date odd-looking men.”
- Internet drama around supposed relationships between Ariana, Cynthia Erivo, and Lena Waithe, with both hosts poking fun at wild fan theories: “Are you guys okay?” (A, 47:49)
10. The Connection Between Wicked and Blackness (54:09–56:55)
- Exploration of the play’s racial undertones, analogies of “otherness,” and why viewers (especially Black women) experience the story as both powerful and triggering.
Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments
-
On Ariana Grande’s transformation:
“She does an amazing job of stripping away Ariana Grande—like, I’m like, oh, such a good job.” (B, 12:47) -
On the power of manifestation:
“…that was like one of the tenets of manifesting…every day she’s having this little tiny reminder, physical reminder, Glinda, Glinda…” (A, 62:00) -
On Glinda’s privilege:
“That feels so personal…just very white privilege coded…I’m like, I know I could care but it’s safer for me not to.” (A, 56:49/57:00) -
On Nessa Rose:
“Nessa Rose, though, you’re not wrong. She was stank from like damn near scene one…she never stood up for her sister, not once…” (A, 27:51–28:29) -
On favorite song and feeling triumphant:
“Defying Gravity would be my favorite…Like, I feel the swell in my body for that one.” (A, 41:43, 41:48) -
On representation and being “seen”:
“Elphaba is so Black coded, like, everything about it is Black.” (B, 54:20) -
On Internet drama:
“To assume Ariana Grande is throwing shots at Lena Waithe feels so crazy…are you guys okay?” (A, 47:32, 47:49) -
On Wicked’s enduring relevance:
“Every time Wicked is coming around, something’s bad in the world…” (A, 07:11)
Key Timestamps
- 01:52–02:22: Oscar and Tony award buzz for Ariana Grande
- 05:22–06:27: The complicated origins of Wicked (book, movie, musical)
- 06:38–07:39: Political humor and Wicked’s ongoing relevance
- 11:43–12:13: Ariana Grande winning the director over
- 15:58–22:48: Glinda character analysis and her relationship to whiteness and privilege
- 23:39–24:39: Cynthia Erivo’s “effortless” vocals
- 41:19–42:34: Favorite songs and why they resonate emotionally
- 43:01–44:05: The Ethan Slater/Ariana Grande baby drama
- 46:09–47:49: Internet speculation about cast relationships
- 54:09–56:55: Race, otherness, and how Wicked speaks to the Black experience
- 62:00–63:28: Ariana Grande’s lifelong manifestation of the Glinda role
Flow & Tone
The episode flows as a blend of sharp dissection, personal anecdotes, uproarious laughter, and blunt critique, maintaining the distinctively candid, lovingly roasting, and insightful style of BPLP. The hosts tell stories, address Internet rumors, and get reflective about Blackness and the arts—all with a mischievous sense of fun.
Final Thoughts
The hosts close by remarking on the continuing resonance of Wicked around issues of representation and survival, with a special nod to Ariana’s journey (“power of manifestation!”) and a nudge for listeners to check out Ryann and Sequoia’s other projects. The episode is an engaging, hilarious, and heartfelt conversation that connects Broadway, Blackness, and messy pop culture with warmth and wit.
For anyone who hasn’t seen the stage play, movie, or even listened to Wicked, this episode covers everything from the plot’s origins and controversies to its deepest social themes—plus, you’ll be ready for all the Internet drama too!