Transcript

Allison Wilmore (0:07)

Welcome to Critical Darlings, a conversation about the awards season. Conversation one contender at a time. Please welcome to the stage your hosts, Richard Lawson and Alison Wilmore.

Richard Lawson (0:26)

Marie. Thank you as ever, for that wonderful introduction and for being a guest on the show last week. We don't have a guest this week, but we are, of course joined, as always, by producer Ben. Hello, Ben.

Griffin Newman (0:36)

Viva Brazil.

Richard Lawson (0:39)

Guten tak to you. We're mainly today gonna be talking about the Secret Agent, but also international films, their presence in America, in the box office and at the Oscars. I'll get into a little Berlin talk from. I was just at that film festival. But before we do that, we should acknowledge that this week the legendary Robert Duvall died at the ripe old age of 95. I was asked by Rolling Stone to contribute a little blurb for my favorite of his movie performances. And embarrassingly, I've seen him be great in many things, but I was like, I think he's wonderful in Deep Impact. And they were like, we don't want that. But obviously that's not one of it. But he's really good in it.

Allison Wilmore (1:22)

Yeah, no, he definitely is. And of course, because we do talk awards here, let us reduce that legendary career to a series of Oscar nominations.

Richard Lawson (1:31)

It was impressive.

Allison Wilmore (1:32)

And one win. Do you know what the win was for? I feel like it's not maybe the one you would expect.

Richard Lawson (1:37)

Is it for Great Santini? No.

David Sims (1:39)

Mm.

Richard Lawson (1:39)

Mm.

Allison Wilmore (1:40)

Tender Mercies.

Richard Lawson (1:41)

Tender mercies.

Allison Wilmore (1:42)

Yeah. 1984.

Richard Lawson (1:43)

Right, right.

Allison Wilmore (1:43)

But was nominated for best supporting for Godfather, Apocalypse now, and then best actor, Deep Impact.

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David

Critical Darlings: The Secret Agent And The Increasingly International Academy
Date: February 19, 2026
Hosted by: Allison Wilmore, Richard Lawson (with Griffin Newman, David Sims)
Main Focus: Deep-dive on the Oscar-nominated Brazilian film The Secret Agent and the evolving place of international cinema in American awards culture.

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the internationalization of the Oscars, using The Secret Agent—a dense, political Brazilian film now making major awards noise—as a touchstone for wider trends. The conversation also explores recent international cinema at festivals (especially Berlin and Cannes), the politics (and messiness) of the international feature Oscar, and how art house, popular, and awards-friendly films intersect globally. The hosts, with their signature blend of insight and irreverence, also touch on the late Robert Duvall, festival culture, movie politics, and standout performances in The Secret Agent.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Remembering Robert Duvall

(Timestamp: 00:26–03:31)

The hosts open by honoring the late Robert Duvall, recalling his legendary career, Oscar history, and memorable performances.
Quote:
“He was just such a natural in a way that I think was maybe taken for granted.” —Richard Lawson (03:09)
Some gentle ribbing of how even titanic careers get distilled down to awards trivia in the Oscar-centric world.
Duvall’s Oscar win: Tender Mercies (not The Great Santini or Deep Impact, despite Richard’s soft spot for the latter).

2. Berlin Film Festival Recap & International Festival Vibes

(Timestamp: 03:31–12:14)

Richard, fresh from Berlin Film Festival, shares logistical and cultural quirks:
- Berlin’s decentralized screenings feel “like the city is your campus.”
- Less theatrical than Cannes or Venice—more subdued audience reactions (“no 10-minute ovations”) and reserved screening culture.
Noted political tensions:
- Press conferences saw debates over avoiding politics, triggering controversy.
- Novelist Arundhati Roy withdrew in protest over a “movies aren’t political” stance.
- Rupert Grint’s viral moment:
  “They asked him about fascism and he was like, obviously, I’M against it.” —Allison Wilmore (09:45)
The uniquely charged context of Berlin’s recent past frames conversations about art, politics, and responsibility.

3. International Films on the Awards Trail: The Case of The Secret Agent

(Timestamp: 12:13–18:42)

The Secret Agent’s awards journey has surprised many: acclaimed at Cannes but not considered a crowd-pleaser, it gained momentum through the season.
The film’s challenging nature:
- “It is a film that has rewarded multiple viewings... It’s also, like, not an easy film.” —Allison Wilmore (12:59)
Winning the Spirit Award marked a “penetration into even basic voting bodies,” defying expectations for a “prickly and tricky and esoteric” film.
Rapid recap of the 2025–26 international Oscar contenders and their varied fates at the box office and on the festival circuit.

4. The Global Art House vs. Domestic Blockbuster Dynamic

(Timestamp: 18:42–27:52)

In Brazil, political/festival films like I’m Still Here and The Secret Agent perform well, but the local box office is otherwise dominated by Hollywood.
International art house is often “made for” festival and critical attention more than native audiences:
- “A lot of these films that end up on the festival circuit...their primary audience is the international festival circuit.”
  —Allison Wilmore (20:31)
Comparison with other countries:
- Many acclaimed international films are barely seen or banned in their home countries (e.g., Iran).
- American audiences see a curated sliver of foreign cinema—mainly “serious” or art house titles; comedic and blockbuster hits don’t often cross over.
Notable example: French “Les Bronzés” series and Iranian comedies/romcoms never get US releases.

5. The Byzantine Politics of the International Feature Oscar

(Timestamp: 30:23–36:41)

Nomination isn’t automatic for the best film—a country’s national committee chooses which film to submit (often amid deep politics and cultural debates).
- “It is Eurovision.” —Griffin Newman (34:42)
National pride, political grudges, and internal cinema politics abound:
- Example: France declining to submit Anatomy of a Fall, despite its later major Oscar nominations.
- China now often submits nationalistic blockbusters—signaling a shift from playing for international approval.
Countries sometimes “pass” films between themselves if circumstances warrant (e.g., French financing or directors in exile).

6. The Shifting Place of International Films in Best Picture & More

(Timestamp: 36:41–43:10)

Historical rundown:
- Non-English Best Picture nominees were rare until the 2010s and Best Picture expansion (only two in the 70s, none in the 80s; Parasite’s 2020 win a watershed moment).
The Academy’s expanding, international membership helps drive this change.
Ongoing debates:
- Broader global membership may mean less receptivity to specifically African-American stories.
- The myth that films with nonwhite leads don’t play overseas has been disproven but lingers in business strategy.
- “It has long been used especially with like big studio movies to justify not spending on marketing.” —Allison Wilmore (43:01)
Famous example:
- The poster for 12 Years a Slave abroad, where only Brad Pitt is visible.

7. Deep Dive: The Secret Agent

(Timestamp: 43:21–84:43; spoilers from 61:01–84:43)

7a. What Makes the Film Work (Non-Spoilers)

Period piece, yet deeply relevant:
- About life under Brazil’s military dictatorship, but resonates with both the Bolsonaro era and universal modern anxieties.
- “It also is this kind of, like, big, swaggering... at certain points, it’s an action movie... it’s colorful.” —Allison Wilmore (43:36)
Style echoes 1970s American thrillers (“muscular New Hollywood swagger”).
Lead actor Wagner Moura is praised for his grounding, magnetic presence:
- “He has a... quality that, like, when he’s on screen, I feel safe... he so anchors everything in this like very chaotic place.” —Griffin Newman (45:34)
The film’s texture: swinging “from warmth and vibrancy to the rot of government violence” in a single shot.
Universal but specific: Depicts the everyday endurance and community under oppression—reminding us life, love, and even parties (Carnaval!) go on.
Brazilian cultural love letter:
- The film “does not do the very heavy handed, like, here’s a note” for outsiders.
  —Allison Wilmore (81:59)

7b. Spoiler Discussion

(Timestamp: 61:01–84:43)

“He’s not a secret agent!” Title is a reference to a comic film showing at the local cinema; a red herring.
Plot centers on deeply personal stakes: Moura’s character, Armando, isn’t involved in spycraft or organized resistance—his struggle is to preserve the memory of his family, especially his mother, whose existence is nearly erased by social forces of race/class.
The finale:
- The adult son, played in a subtle double role by Moura, is largely indifferent—his father’s memory faded, highlighting the fragility of history and memory.
- “You remember my father better than I do.” —Allison Wilmore (68:07)
- Powerful meditation on the loss and distortion of personal and national history over time, as well as on institutional memory (through the parallel with researchers’ audio tapes).
The infamous “hairy leg” subplot—an urban legend in the film, both comic and chilling, is revealed as a symbol about distraction and distortion in the press.
Casting praised: “This movie is so beautifully populated,” with standouts like Maria Thaísia Maria (Dona Sebastiana)—a nonprofessional actor with an instant cult following.

7c. The Film’s Political & Emotional Impact

The hosts debate whether the film was built for international audiences (they think not; it’s deeply rooted in Brazilian culture, politics, and codes).
Visual and narrative references, period-specific aesthetics, and loaded historical allusions offer a dense fabric for local viewers.
Yet, the universality of its themes—corruption, resistance, memory, pride—resonate across borders.
- “The more I talk about this movie, the more I think it is just a stone cold masterpiece.” —Griffin Newman (83:39)
The “Viva Brazil!” moment at a US screening sparks reflection about national pride—how the film balances love and critique for a country.

8. Wagner Moura and the Best Actor Race

(Timestamp: 87:37–93:16)

Moura’s nomination is seen as a surprise, but his likelihood to “pull an upset” has risen as The Secret Agent gains momentum.
His American “profile” also helps—appeared in English-language roles (Netflix’s Narcos, Civil War).
The rarity of non-English leads winning, but that could be changing:
- “Here comes this, like, solid man... warmth. A warmth. Kind of nice masculinity.” —Richard Lawson (92:14)

9. Fun Anecdote: Il Postino and Psychological Experiments

(Timestamp: 93:17–96:51)

Allison recounts participating in a psych experiment which involved watching Il Postino while being randomly shocked—a pop culture legend in the podcast.
Griffin tracks down evidence that Il Postino has long been used in psychological studies as an emotionally neutral stimulus.

Notable Quotes

“He was just such a natural in a way that I think was maybe taken for granted.” —Richard Lawson, on Robert Duvall (03:09)
“They asked [Rupert Grint] about fascism and he was like, obviously, I'm against it.” —Allison Wilmore (09:45)
“You can just pay to be a [Spirit Awards] voter... So that it really seems to be like penetrating even voting bodies that I think of as frankly being a little more... basic is interesting.” —Richard Lawson (14:33)
“A lot of these films that end up on the festival circuit...their primary audience is the international festival circuit and not a domestic audience sometimes.” —Allison Wilmore (20:31)
“It is Eurovision.” —Griffin Newman (34:42)
“The more I talk about this movie, the more I think it is just a stone cold masterpiece.” —Griffin Newman (83:39)
“You remember my father better than I do. Like, even this horrible image of, like, him as a child...I know I've created, like, this kind of like, stand in memory because my grandfather told me this, but, like, I don't remember it.” —Allison Wilmore (68:07)
“Here comes this, like, solid man... warmth. A warmth. Kind of nice masculinity.” —Richard Lawson (92:14)

Timestamps for Important Segments

00:26–03:31 — Robert Duvall: Remembering the Actor
03:31–12:14 — Berlin Film Festival Recap & Context
12:13–18:42 — The Secret Agent’s Awards Journey and Reception
18:42–27:52 — Global Festival vs. Domestic Box Office; Art House vs. Pop
30:23–36:41 — How International Feature Oscar Noms Work
36:41–43:10 — International Films in Best Picture History & Academy Demographics
43:21–61:01 — The Secret Agent (deep dive, no spoilers)
61:01–84:43 — The Secret Agent SPOILERS: Plot, Themes, Casting, Climax
87:37–93:16 — Wagner Moura’s Awards Chances
93:17–96:51 — Il Postino Psychological Experiment Anecdote

Tone & Style

The hosts are smart, loose, and sharply funny, mixing rapid-fire film analysis with wry pop-culture asides. The episode is packed with cinephile detail but avoids pretension, inviting listeners to rethink both films and the awards ecosystem with humor and candor.

Conclusion

This episode offers a sweeping, nuanced look at the state of international cinema in the context of American awards, using The Secret Agent as a prism to discuss politics, history, storytelling, and the emotional core of movies. Listeners come away with a richer sense of both cinematic art and the machinery (and messiness) of global recognition.