Transcript

Griffin (0:01)

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David.

David (0:09)

Don't know what to say or to expect.

Griffin (0:13)

All you need to know is that.

David (0:15)

The name of the shadow is Blackjack. I'm not going to talk yet. I'm not comfortable with podcasting, so I guess you could call me a reluctant narrator. But I just wanted to show up for blank check. I owe her a lot, so let's just thank you. Start.

Richard Lawson (0:36)

At first I was like, that's a horrible Albert Brooks. And then I. And then I was like, oh, it's actually a good Kafner.

David (0:41)

Thank you. Late, late period. Kafner.

Richard Lawson (0:44)

Yeah.

David (0:45)

There is no quotes page for this movie.

Griffin (0:47)

I mean, it hasn't come out yet in its defense, even sure it'll be new releases.

David (0:51)

People usually are adding things trailer from the trailer or you can find other websites that have it. And instead, what I just had to do was go back to the script for Ella McKay, which I will talk about. I read in April of 2023.

Richard Lawson (1:06)

Because you read for the counterpart.

David (1:07)

Exactly. And they were like, you don't seem reluctant enough as a narrator. So what I just said might not actually match word for word what is.

Griffin (1:15)

In the film, but it, it's along those lines.

David (1:17)

Something like that. I'll say this as well.

Griffin (1:19)

Hi, I'm the narrator.

David (1:21)

A listener of the show messaged me, sent me a private message, I guess, like a year and a half ago, that they had gone to a test screening of this film in 2024.

Richard Lawson (1:32)

Talioni message you.

David (1:33)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then like four months ago messaged me again. I got a flyer for another test screening. I want to go and see how much they changed. And there were reshoots, I believe, at the beginning of this year that were fairly extensive. And he was like, the single biggest change was on screen, Cavanaugh narration in.

Blank Check with Griffin & David

Episode: Ella McKay with Richard Lawson
Release Date: December 14, 2025
Guest: Richard Lawson

Episode Overview

This episode of Blank Check reunites hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims with critic and longtime friend of the show Richard Lawson to review "Ella McKay," the surprise comeback film from director James L. Brooks. Not just content to revisit the filmmaker’s signature messy ensemble films, the trio digs into the making, release, and thematic ambitions of a director whose longevity and “blank check” status from the industry is almost mythic. Expect deep industry gossip, an affectionate but critical look at Brooks’s late style, and some classic Blank Check tangents—all wrapped in the show’s patented blend of film-geekery and improvisational humor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James L. Brooks’s Unlikely Return ([06:00]–[10:55])

The hosts express genuine surprise that Brooks returned after a 15-year absence, given the disastrous reception of his previous film, "How Do You Know."
- David: "I would have put the odds about the same as the directors we've covered who are dead. Right. It is astonishing." ([07:20])
Brooks’s “blank check” here is discussed as a quid pro quo: Disney/Fox lets him make "Ella McKay" in exchange for spearheading a second "Simpsons" movie. Late Brooks productions are noted for extensive development and reshoots.
- David: "It's like a sort of hostage negotiation blank check. But he was holding valuable cards for them." ([09:14])

2. Casting, Age, and Actor Energy ([12:08]–[16:11], [68:09]–[82:24])

Casting Emma Mackey (often compared to Margot Robbie) as Ella brings up questions about industry trends of casting younger actors for roles spanning many ages. The hosts question whether she—and Jack Lowden as her husband—were ideal, noting the film’s tendency to cast multiple Brits in lead roles and challenges with accent work.
- David: "You need someone who is going to be so comfortable in being the lead of a movie and has carried a movie of this size on their shoulders before." ([101:05])
Emma Mackey’s limited number of credits and the challenge of playing a character through her late teens, twenties, and thirties is a recurring thread.
Recap of the flashbacks—hosts agree they’re mostly extraneous, killing momentum. The opening childhood scene with her dad’s scandal is effective, and much of the rest could be cut.
- Griffin: "The opening is all you need, which is really profound, like, and really got me." ([70:44])

3. The Film’s Place in Brooks’s Oeuvre ([16:44]–[20:30]; [82:26]–[83:39]; [127:12]–[128:20])

Debate on where "Ella McKay" falls in Brooks’s filmography. The consensus: it’s his “fourth best” film. Still, there’s a major drop-off in quality from "Broadcast News," "Terms of Endearment," and "As Good As It Gets."
- David: "Even people who hate this movie, I think, will need to concede it as his fourth best." ([17:05])
Nostalgia for this sort of mid-budget, star-driven, adult dramedy, now a rare genre for major studios.
Late Brooks movies—Spanglish, How Do You Know—are widely seen as messy but fascinating failures.

4. Plot Structure & Theme Soup ([40:06]–[46:56]; [99:53]–[106:35])

The hosts describe "Ella McKay" as a “chowder” of plotlines: politics, family, scandal, gender, marriage.
- David: "This movie also has like four or five major concerns." ([40:06])
- Richard: "It’s a little bit of that with Brooks, but it’s not as snooty...It’s like your grandpa being like, ‘Oh, what’s...’ you know, kind of using old colloquialism." ([45:20])
Griffin suggests the core is Brooks’s reflection on “boomer guilt,” in which the protagonist struggles under the legacy of previous generations and must “put things back together”—with her two father figures both representing failures of prior male authority.
- Griffin: "We’ve left you such a mess. You’re not prepared for anything, because we’ve modeled nothing well..." ([42:16])

5. Industry & Release Context ([30:41]–[32:09], [114:09]–[118:54])

The film’s odd release strategy—Fox/Disney dumped it into the late December corridor, initially scheduled for September, played no festivals, and didn’t seem to know how to market a Brooks-style dramedy in 2025.
- David: "You can just see Disney being like, we don’t even know how to fucking market this type of movie anymore." ([31:31])
Discussion of box office prospects, skepticism about its commercial performance, and the “Ella McKay Challenge” (a fleeting film Twitter meme echoing the pose from the poster.)

6. Execution, Editing, and Messiness ([13:27]–[16:44], [39:35]–[41:30])

Evidence that the final film differs significantly from the original script—multiple subplots, especially her dad’s storyline and flashbacks, were cut down, shifting the thematic structure in editing.
The duality of Brooks’s process: he famously never drops a plot thread after discovering it, leading to choppy, overstuffed movies in late career.
- David: "James O. Brooks is the guy where every time he makes a new discovery, he adds it on top of the original thing." ([99:18])

7. Performance and Character Highlights ([90:01]–[92:34], [119:00]–[122:13])

Jamie Lee Curtis’s brassy aunt, Albert Brooks’s tired mentor figure, Woody Harrelson’s absentee dad, and supporting players like Becky Ann Baker (as a pizzeria matriarch) and Kumail Nanjiani (security detail). Some cameos feel dropped in or oddly minimized. The supporting cast is acknowledged as stacked but sometimes underused.
Notably, the hosts shout out Joey Brooks (James L. Brooks’s son), playing an overtime-seeking cop—one of the film’s emotional non-sequiturs.

8. Industry/Self-Referential Humor & Running Gags

Regular references to the Simpsons (Julie Kavner’s own “aging,” Marge’s static age), running gags about Ben’s mysterious Simpsons fortune, pizza-centric parodies, and the peculiarities of Brooks’s dialogue style.
- Griffin (in Brooks/Kavner voice): "I'm nuts about her!" ([42:45])

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Julie Kavner aging naturally on film:
David ([02:48]): "Their voices have all really gotten bad and they're sounding really old…But seeing her on screen doesn't have that same effect…Seeing oldie, oldie Kavner, I'm like, yeah, no, she sounds, she sounds healthy. This is just her voice."
On Brooks’s returning energy:
David ([06:41]): "No one's going to let him do this again. Does he have the energy to even try to do this again?...And yet here we are 15 years after How Do You Know, James L. Brooks returns—a follow up new release to a miniseries I thought would never happen."
On the movie’s structure:
Richard ([40:29]): "This movie is flittering all around—scandal, dad returning, brother problems…five things all kind of got equal weight. And it was still messy, but…a little more cohesive."
On the Brooks method:
Richard ([99:15]): "That's the crucial part. You take it out."
David: "James O. Brooks is the guy where every time he makes a new discovery, he adds it on top of the original thing."
On nostalgia for mid-budget studio movies:
Richard ([19:14]): "Man, they used to just make movies about like a quirky family or like someone trying to like…we all live in a neighborhood and we yell at each other…It’s sort of a Moonstruck runoff."
On the film’s ending:
Ben (producer, via David; [106:00]): “It’s a warm bath ending. It’s a warm bath movie.”
On Brooks’s legacy:
Richard ([128:11]): "I don't think I'm ever going to come back for another James [L. Brooks]. I mean, maybe I'm wrong...It would be astonishing."

Timestamps for Notable Segments

Brooks’s return/development hell: [06:00]–[11:00]
Casting & script differences: [12:08]–[16:44]
Ella McKay poster/marketing conversation: [03:52]–[05:19], meme at [118:05]
Plot summary & character rundown: [82:26]–[88:18]
Industry insight / box office talk: [30:41]–[32:09], [114:09]–[118:54]
Critical Darlings podcast announcement: [22:38]–[25:16]
Discussion of Brooks’s process/structure: [39:35]–[41:30], [99:53]–[106:35]
Ranking the Brooks filmography: [127:12]–[128:20]

Overall Tone & Takeaway

The hosts approach "Ella McKay" with both affection and realistic critique. There's a through-line of nostalgia for this genre and for Brooks as a unique auteur, even as his creative quirks and diminishing formal control are laid bare. The movie itself is dissected as a case study in late-career "blank check" filmmaking—overstuffed, sincere, flawed, but brimming with genuine attempts to engage with complex personal and societal themes. For both longtime Brooks fans and cinephiles interested in how a legendary filmmaker tries (and sometimes fails) to rediscover his touch, this episode is an illuminating, warm, and at times bittersweet listen.

Further Notes

New podcast miniseries "Critical Darlings" announced by Richard and Allison Wilmore, launching Jan 1st, 2026—an Oscars/awards season recap and criticism show produced by Blank Check and Vulture. ([22:38]–[25:07])
Best recurring joke: the Ella McKay Challenge (posing like the poster), Ben’s supposed Simpsons fortune, and “Brooksian chowder.”
Closing Thoughts: The episode closes with appreciation for Brooks, the audience, and a candid sense that, even if "Ella McKay" is a minor work, there’s a magic to these rare grown-up Hollywood movies—a magic Blank Check is uniquely equipped to celebrate and gently roast.

wavePod

Ella McKay with Richard Lawson