Empire of the Sun with Bilge Ebiri - Blank Check with Griffin & David

Transcript

Griffin Newman (0:01)

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the shadow is Blackjack.

David Sims (0:21)

Can't remember what my podcast looks like.

Griffin Newman (0:24)

It's a really sad line from the movie.

Bill Gawain (0:26)

Yeah, thank God we started out that way.

David Sims (0:29)

Look, I mean, I was like, oh, you know, it feels like any line of dialogue is going to be said. Maybe I should do the tagline instead. The tagline is, to survive in a world at war, he must find a greater strength than all the events that surround him. I'd say also a bummer.

Ben Hosley (0:43)

I mean, just try not to think so much. Surely there's a. There's a.

David Sims (0:47)

That's good. Maybe. Yeah. I feel like I've always struggled.

Griffin Newman (0:50)

Yeah. Do you want to bust out a mountain with Malkovich's.

David Sims (0:52)

I feel like we have not covered a lot of Malkovich. Our main Malkovich talk episode was Portrait of a Lady, which we're like, that's a weird application of Malovich. And does it unbalance the movie? In a way, I was less into the movie but more into his performance. Whereas I feel like you like the movie a little more and felt his performance was working a little against it.

Griffin Newman (1:13)

He is, he is. Look, casting John Malkovich is an aggressive thing.

David Sims (1:17)

Repeat your had your great line in that episode.

Griffin Newman (1:20)

Oh, I don't remember it. You have to tell me he's sun.

David Sims (1:21)

Dried tomatoes on a sandwich.

Griffin Newman (1:24)

What it is. I really agree with that. And it's like if you put five of those on a sandwich, you're eating a sun dried tomato sandwich. Doesn't matter what else is on that thing now.

David Sims (1:32)

I, I'm just. Let's forefront this. I think this is like a perfect application.

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David: Episode Summary – "Empire of the Sun with Bilge Ebiri"

Introduction

In the March 16, 2025 release of "Blank Check with Griffin & David," hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims, along with guest Bilge Ebiri, delve into Steven Spielberg's film Empire of the Sun. This episode is part of a miniseries exploring Spielberg's early career, examining how his initial successes granted him the creative freedom to pursue diverse and ambitious projects.

Discussion Highlights

John Malkovich's Casting and Performance

The conversation opens with a focus on John Malkovich's role in Empire of the Sun. David Sims recalls their previous episode discussing Malkovich in Portrait of a Lady, highlighting the actor's ability to bring depth to his characters. He remarks, "It's arguably one of his best performances, but it's almost inarguably one of the smartest ways a movie has employed him" ([01:32] David Sims). Griffin Newman adds that casting Malkovich as an "American Fagin" was an "aggressive thing," emphasizing the actor's unique presence on screen.
Spielberg's Directorial Choices and Critical Reception

The hosts analyze Spielberg's approach in Empire of the Sun, noting its experimental elements compared to his more commercially successful films like E.T. and the Indiana Jones series. David Sims reflects on the film's box office performance and critical reception, mentioning that despite Spielberg's established reputation, Empire of the Sun didn't achieve the same level of acclaim as his other works. "It fully received at the time. And I remember... at some point, being like, if you adjust to modern dollars, how many Spielberg movies don't make 100 million?" ([09:16] David Sims).
Themes of Innocence and Maturation

Central to their discussion is the film's exploration of innocence lost and the protagonist's journey from a sheltered child to a survivor amidst the chaos of war. Griffin Newman notes, "It's a movie about the loss of innocence. I mean, it's a movie about the death of childhood, but this is much more explicitly" ([27:38] Griffin Newman). David Sims adds that Spielberg seems to use the film as a metaphor for his own grappling with maturity and understanding his place in the world, stating, "I feel like we're committing to doing this. We put our schedule on the spreadsheet..." ([27:08] David Sims).
Spielberg's Evolution and Auteur Theory

The conversation extends to Spielberg's evolution as a director, particularly his shift from child-centric stories to more mature themes in films like Schindler's List. Ben Hosley introduces his "unified field theory" of Spielberg's career, suggesting that Spielberg's earlier films are viewed through a child's perspective, while his later works reflect a parent's viewpoint. "Spielberg first period... can be best be understood as being from the point of view of a child. And then there's this back half of his career... from the eyes of a parent" ([22:48] Ben Hosley).
Technical Aspects and Filmmaking Style

The hosts discuss Spielberg's technical prowess, particularly his use of signature shots like crane and tracking shots. Ben Hosley points out how Empire of the Sun showcases Spielberg attempting to convey darker, more mature stories using his established visual language. He remarks, "Spielberg has his vernacular. He has his language, he has his favorite shots...just tip it a little bit so that the story becomes a lot darker" ([28:17] Ben Hosley).

Notable Quotes

"Obvious a great way to use John Malkovich as an American Fagin." ([01:32] Griffin Newman)
"He fully received at the time... how many Spielberg movies don't make 100 million?" ([09:16] David Sims)
"It's a movie about the loss of innocence... this is much more explicitly." ([27:38] Griffin Newman)
"Spielberg first period... can be best be understood as being from the point of view of a child." ([22:48] Ben Hosley)
"Spielberg has his vernacular... so that the story becomes a lot darker." ([28:17] Ben Hosley)

Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Griffin Newman and David Sims, with Bilge Ebiri, offer a nuanced examination of Empire of the Sun as a pivotal moment in Spielberg's career. They highlight how the film serves as both a commercial endeavor and a personal exploration for Spielberg, reflecting his internal struggles with maturity and his desire to break free from the 'child-friendly' narratives that characterized his earlier successes.

Ben Hosley's theory posits that Spielberg's directorial journey is marked by a shift in perspective—from childlike wonder to parental reflection—allowing him to tackle more complex and somber themes. This evolution is evident in Empire of the Sun's darker tone and its departure from Spielberg's hallmark visual style, demonstrating his ability to adapt and mature as a filmmaker.

The episode underscores the delicate balance Spielberg maintains between commercial viability and artistic expression, illustrating how Empire of the Sun was both a critical misstep and a foundational experiment that paved the way for his later masterpieces like Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan.

Conclusion

"Blank Check with Griffin & David" successfully captures the essence of Empire of the Sun and its significance in Steven Spielberg's early career. Through insightful dialogue and reflective analysis, the hosts provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the film's impact, both commercially and artistically, positioning it as a cornerstone in Spielberg's evolution as one of Hollywood's most influential auteurs.