Fast Times at Ridgemont High with Lola Kirke

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David: Episode Summary - "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" with Lola Kirke

Release Date: April 27, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Blank Check with Griffin & David, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims, along with guest Lola Kirke, delve into the classic teen film Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Produced by Ben Hosley, the discussion offers a comprehensive examination of the film's enduring legacy, character dynamics, and its place within the teen movie genre.

Overview of "Fast Times at Ridgemont High"

Fast Times at Ridgemont High, directed by Amy Heckerling and released in 1982, is celebrated for its authentic portrayal of teenage life and its influential role in shaping the teen movie landscape. The hosts explore how the film diverges from typical 80s sex comedies by infusing depth and realism into its characters and narratives.

Character Analysis

1. Sean Penn as Brad Hamilton

   • Performance Insight: Sean Penn delivers a compelling performance as Brad Hamilton, a confident and seemingly flawless teenager. David Sims remarks, “He was already sort of brimming with arrogance” (03:11), highlighting Penn's portrayal of Brad’s complex personality.
   • Character Arc: Brad's journey in the film is marked by his struggle to maintain his composed exterior while dealing with personal vulnerabilities, especially concerning his relationship dynamics.

2. Judge Reinhold as Mr. Vargas

   • Performance Insight: Judge Reinhold plays Mr. Vargas, a strict yet nuanced teacher. Griffin Newman praises his “incredible performance,” noting Reinhold's ability to balance authority with subtle humor (09:02).
   • Character Role: Mr. Vargas serves as a foil to the rebellious teenage characters, embodying the tension between youthful exuberance and adult expectations.

3. Phoebe Cates as Stacy Hamilton

   • Performance Insight: Phoebe Cates shines as Stacy, Brad’s sister, bringing a blend of sweetness and strength to her role. Lola Kirke shares her admiration, stating, “I love that she just wants romance” (11:38).
   • Character Role: Stacy’s character offers a contrasting perspective on teenage relationships and personal growth, emphasizing emotional depth over superficial experiences.

4. Jennifer Jason Lee as Damon

   • Performance Insight: Jennifer Jason Lee portrays Damon, a teenager grappling with significant personal challenges. David Sims notes, “She wanted to have sex but also wanted to figure out what it’s like to be a person” (89:17), illustrating Damon’s internal conflict.
   • Character Dynamics: Damon's storyline intertwines with themes of vulnerability and the quest for authentic connections, adding layers to the film’s narrative.

5. Forest Whitaker in a Supporting Role

   • Performance Insight: Forest Whitaker makes a memorable appearance, bringing authenticity and a unique presence to his role. Lola Kirke recalls, “His eyes are so specific” (30:00), highlighting his impactful performance despite limited screen time.

Themes and Insights

Fast Times at Ridgemont High transcends typical teen comedies by addressing deeper themes such as sexual agency, identity, and the complexities of teenage relationships. The hosts emphasize how Amy Heckerling’s direction crafts a film that is both a product of its time and ahead of its time, offering genuine reflections on adolescent experiences.

Cinematic Analysis

1. Direction and Storytelling:

   • Amy Heckerling employs a unique narrative structure, blending comedy with poignant moments, which allows the film to resonate on multiple levels. Griffin Newman observes, “The movie just constantly... holds back from the most obvious version of every scene” (62:58), indicating the film’s subtlety in character development.

2. Soundtrack and Cultural Impact:

   • The soundtrack, curated by Irving Azoff, plays a crucial role in setting the film’s tone, featuring a mix of contemporary and classic tracks that reflect the characters' diverse personalities. David Sims notes, “The soundtrack is a compromise, but I think it’s a great balance” (44:43), underscoring its significance in the film’s storytelling.

3. Visual and Thematic Symbolism:

   • The use of iconic props, such as vans and pool houses, symbolizes the characters' aspirations and the cultural milieu of the early 80s. Lola Kirke appreciates the film's authentic depiction, stating, “It’s a very unique film” (43:50).

Performance Highlights

• Sean Penn’s Versatile Acting: Penn’s portrayal of Brad Hamilton is lauded for its depth and relatability, making Brad a quintessential character that balances charm with underlying insecurities.
• Jennifer Jason Lee’s Emotional Range: Lee brings a heartfelt sincerity to her role as Damon, effectively conveying the struggles of teenage adolescence without falling into clichéd tropes.
• Judge Reinhold’s Nuanced Role: Reinhold’s Mr. Vargas is praised for being more than just a "mean teacher," offering a balanced depiction that respects both the authority figure and the students.

Conclusion

Fast Times at Ridgemont High remains a landmark film in the teen movie genre, thanks to its authentic storytelling, complex characters, and cultural relevance. In this episode, Griffin Newman, David Sims, and Lola Kirke provide insightful analysis and personal reflections that highlight the film’s enduring impact and its nuanced approach to depicting teenage life.

Notable Quotes

• Griffin Newman on Sean Penn’s performance: “...how part of the magic of his performance is... he just nails it first try out” (01:47).
• David Sims on the film’s authentic portrayal: “It's an incredible performance” (39:06).
• Lola Kirke on the film’s emotional honesty: “I just think Amy Heckerling gets this far more like most directors” (131:34).

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a thorough exploration of Fast Times at Ridgemont High, celebrating its contributions to cinema and its lasting appeal. Whether you’re a longtime fan or new to the film, Griffin, David, and Lola’s discussion provides valuable perspectives that enhance your appreciation of this classic teen movie.

Transcript

[Lola Kirk]

I'm trying to schedule an acupuncture appointment for myself while I. While I do this.

[Griffin Newman]

Hell yeah. Yeah, Just talk through it so Ben can get the levels.

[Lola Kirk]

Okay. East Village. Acupuncture and massage. Massage.

[David Sims]

See, I'm just a massage guy. I'm just kind of like. Massages are great. I don't need someone to do acupuncture because I'm already so happy with the massage.

[Lola Kirk]

This is a different thing. What the fuck is electro acupuncture, Dude?

[David Sims]

That's a thing.

[Lola Kirk]

What is it?

[David Sims]

I don't know. It's like them putting speaker wires into you. You know what I mean? Like, it's. It's an acupuncture with these things that are plugged into something.

[Lola Kirk]

Do you need me to keep talking?

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, no, I'm all set.

[David Sims]

Great. Let's just go.

[Lola Kirk]

Any stuff. Okay, wait. I'm almost done picking.

[David Sims]

Oh. Oh, you're booking your appointment.

[Lola Kirk]

Do you think I'll be able to make a 315 acupuncture?

[David Sims]

Where. Where is your acupuncture Ace Village?

[Griffin Newman]

Hmm. I think we can. Okay, well, let's go. Yeah, let's go.

[Lola Kirk]

2:45. That gives us time to talk for two hours.

[Griffin Newman]

It could be a short episode.

[David Sims]

I love it. I love it.

[Lola Kirk]

Okay, okay, okay.

[David Sims]

We'll get you out of here. It's fine. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, ready? Blank check with Griffin and David.

[David Sims]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't know what to say or to expect.

[David Sims]

All you need to know is that the name of the show is blankjack. Back.

[Griffin Newman]

What Jefferson was saying was, hey, you know, we left this podcast because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves pronto, we'll just be bogus too. I really that up.

[David Sims]

Did you? I mean, that seemed fine to me.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like I went very generic. I think part of the magic of his performance is.

[David Sims]

Right. It's actually less.

[Griffin Newman]

There is a specificity to the way he plays this that still makes this the funniest version of this archetype. I would argue.

[Lola Kirk]

I. I would agree.

[Griffin Newman]

And I.

[Lola Kirk]

You don't have to Arg. Argue. Great.

[Griffin Newman]

I did the off the rack version. I couldn't get there.

[David Sims]

You know who Mr. Hand is, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Ray Walston. What do you mean who it's based on?

[David Sims]

No, no, just like, you know who Ray Walston. Is, right?

[Griffin Newman]

My Favorite Martian.

[David Sims]

Yeah, there you go.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And a great, great, great musical theater actor. Like one of the legends of Popeye's dad. Is he Popeye's dad? Oh, in the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Pappy.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Robert's Popeye. Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

I did not know that. And I did read the trivia last night for this movie just because I wanted to like, one up you.

[David Sims]

You'll.

[Griffin Newman]

You'll fail.

[Lola Kirk]

I know.

[David Sims]

We have researchers. It's.

[Griffin Newman]

This is now a very tight operation. I don't know if you know this. You have now broken the record for the longest gap between appearances on this podcast.

[David Sims]

Well, Lola and I discussed this before.

[Griffin Newman]

Many things have changed since the last time you were on. I was getting Lola tv. This is the whole thing. This is sick.

[David Sims]

No, no, no. Okay. And we actually have an episode to get to.

[Lola Kirk]

I'm not sick. Don't say that yet.

[Griffin Newman]

Lola's not sick.

[Lola Kirk]

I'm not sick.

[David Sims]

Griffin's whole thing now is that for some reason. And Ben and I were just discussing this. He's the one who picks up coffee even though he's chronically late.

[Griffin Newman]

I have to push back on this lately, Yes, I do. Lately I've been having Ben pick up the coffee so I can get here early. And that has been working. I've been getting here early and benches up at the coffee. If you check the records, this is a fact.

[David Sims]

You were late the last couple of records.

[Lola Kirk]

But early for you is 15 minutes late.

[David Sims]

No time for him is 15 minutes.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no. This was the last one before this. I was late the last several before this, I was here early and Ben picked up the coffee. That is correct. I had placed the order. I was going to be on time. I asked Law, she wanted anything. She said no. And then she said, would you mind getting me a tea? I had to add on to, now.

[David Sims]

It'S our guest fault. We get a great celebrity in the room two minutes into recording.

[Griffin Newman]

You're throwing her under the bus yet. But I did a very kind thing.

[Lola Kirk]

It's true.

[David Sims]

Do you know what the poster tagline for this film was? The original.

[Griffin Newman]

The original poster tagline was the list of the 12 bands on the soundtrack at the bottom of the poster.

[David Sims]

I mean, that's probably true because they are down there. But no, it's at Ridgemont High, only the rules get busted. Which is one of those things that I'm like, that sounds clever, but I don't actually know what that means.

[Griffin Newman]

No. The other posters to this movie are also insane.

[David Sims]

Like, you can kind of tell. They don't really know how to tell you what this movie is apart from, like, it's a teen movie with a surf stoner.

[Griffin Newman]

And yes, like, we'll get into it. But the fact that Universal was afraid to release this because they were like, is this borderline pornography?

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

And then meanwhile, they were selling it like it was every other sex comedy of the 80s is fascinating that they were, like, terrified of it and also trying to sell it as the thing that was de rigueur. Like, there were 40 movies a week in which a guy put his dick somewhere weird and America cheered and it made $100 million. And then this one, they were like, this might be illegal.

[David Sims]

Talk about it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

What's this happen? What's this podcast we have? We have a lot to set up.

[Griffin Newman]

We have a lot to set up. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[David Sims]

I'm David.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors experienced a series of massive success early on in their career. Given. I said series too early. A series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion products they want. And sometimes those checks clear. And sometimes they bounce, baby. I have found that 10 years in, I'm having a harder time remembering the intro.

[David Sims]

We should just stop all of it. Let's just. No, no, no. We'll do the pockets, but forget the intro. Okay, well, just like it's Blank Check. Google it.

[Griffin Newman]

What if I go back to doing a serial parody for the intro?

[David Sims]

Oh, no, no, thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

This is Blank Check. One director told in my ninth part.

[David Sims]

What is this miniseries, Griffin? Because I'm realizing I don't think we.

[Griffin Newman]

Discussed the title Pod Times at Ridgemont Cast. I'm. I'm just. I'm shooting off the hip here.

[Lola Kirk]

I liked it.

[Griffin Newman]

Pod. Thank you. Lola laughed. Pod Times at Ridgemont Castle Cast.

[David Sims]

I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. It's fine. I'm going to say it. I think that's almost kind of Route 1 for us at this point.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, so look who's podcasting two.

[David Sims]

I think that's funny. I just want to say that's exactly what I was going to suggest.

[Lola Kirk]

That makes sense.

[David Sims]

Is funny because it makes a weird amount of sense. But then the two kind of undercuts it, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Because the other. The other option is Pod. Who's casting two.

[Lola Kirk]

No, no, no, no, no. Look who's podcasting two is genius. Because everyone has a podcast. I mean, you guys obviously had the first podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

It.

[David Sims]

It was Pont Cast is fine. There's nothing wrong with.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's what I'm trying to balance. Pod Times at Richmond H. Cast got an earnest laugh out of Lola. But then Podcasting two got a. Hm. That's genius. And I'm like, Which is more valuable? Do we want to be smart or funny? This is the eternal battle of this show, is it not?

[Lola Kirk]

Wait, are they not. Did Amy Heckerling direct Look who's Talking?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, I thought that that was the little one. Oh, no, that's a. That's. Honey, I shrunk the kids.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

Got it.

[Griffin Newman]

She did the look who's Talking one and two and then handed off three.

[Lola Kirk]

I think pod times at Ridgemont cast is okay.

[David Sims]

Oh, now she's back to pot. Oh, well, you know what? We'll discuss this later.

[Griffin Newman]

Those are the two options later. But. But this is the start of a miniseries on Amy Hackerling.

[Lola Kirk]

Well, I'm honored to be here.

[Griffin Newman]

And a career that starts with an out of the box masterpiece. We've discussed this before. The different times, types of career starters we cover on this show as people who are obsessive completists. This is like she just fucking nails it first try out.

[David Sims]

Absolutely true. I think she nails it very much. But yeah, an interesting sort of way to think about her career. Like, is it. Is it a problem to start with? Arguably your best movie? Not in my opinion, but, like, arguably your best movie, tough to top, you know, sets you up for a sophomore slump.

[Griffin Newman]

We'll talk about it. I give her a lot of credit for this movie. This is also one of those magical movies where it's just like, all the elements movie.

[David Sims]

Right. Where, like, all the cast is so perfect.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the thing that pushes it over the edge is, like, her judgment and skill and taste. But to your point, it being like, Nicolas Cage is in two shots of this movie. Like, this is just a film where you think about the people who are on the set every day and, like, the energy of just like some people who would dominate the culture for decades, who were all coming in with, like, I'm rearing to go. I'm ready to prove myself now.

[David Sims]

We are all too young for this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct?

[David Sims]

Right. We all probably. We all discovered this movie. It was already an established thing. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

We were born into a fast film in theaters.

[David Sims]

Right? Exactly.

[Lola Kirk]

But I watched this movie, like, once a week on a portable DVD player for the entirety of high school.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say we. I mean, when I. Let's. Let's say our guest today returned to the show for the first time in eight years. A long time. Is that right?

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Since what Women Want.

[Lola Kirk]

I love that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. A film. A film you sold me on. Lola Kirk. Musician, author, actress. We're experiencing the 2025 year of Lola. We were Talking about publishing your first book.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Releasing your third album.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then. And your triumphant return.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah, my triumphant return to the screen after no one would give me a job for a few years.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey, that's. That's my life.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I understand that. Beat being like, maybe I'm retired. Does it have anything to do with no one wanting to hire you? No.

[Lola Kirk]

I think it's unrelated. Absolutely not.

[Griffin Newman]

I made a choice. I made a really strong choice here.

[Lola Kirk]

A really strong choice not to work until someone gave me a job again.

[Griffin Newman]

Sinners. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Sinners.

[Griffin Newman]

New Ryan Coogler moved.

[David Sims]

That's it. What? March. Coming out of March.

[Lola Kirk]

I believe it's now April 18th.

[David Sims]

Oh, now April. It swapped with Mickey 17. So it's now April 20th.

[Griffin Newman]

Right around the time of this episode. Am I wrong?

[David Sims]

5. Absolutely. This episode is dropping on April 27th. So Cinders has been out for a week. It just opened.

[Griffin Newman]

Burning off the box office.

[David Sims]

I hope it's good.

[Griffin Newman]

I hope so, too. Lola. Kirk. What's up now, to your point. We grew up together, went to high school together. I. I threw you. Hey. It's been too long since you've been on. Here's a long list of things. Your immediate response was, well, Fast Times is basically my favorite movie of all time. And it felt very apropos, just because I feel like a lot of our high school was us watching this canon of movies obsessively over and over again. I feel like that is one of many things we bonded on. Was just like an obsession with 80s teen movies.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Lola's getting emotional.

[Lola Kirk]

I am getting emotional. But also because I feel like one of the things I was thinking as I watched it last night was like, what are teenagers watching now? Like, I saw this movie in the. Like, I. I used to read things when I was younger. Like, the lists. Like, you need to listen to these records.

[David Sims]

This is 20 best. Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

And this was on that.

[Griffin Newman]

The cornerstone of our podcast. And also, basically, you are speaking directly to the experience of every one of our listeners. I guess, like Millennials of magazine.

[Lola Kirk]

Okay. Nerdy. Oh, I thought it was just Millennials, but, like, nerds. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Less generationally and more that type of brain of. I need to know what the canon is.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah. I wanted to know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. In all these different corners.

[Lola Kirk]

And this movie was like, the one that it. It just was talked about over and over again, and I was like, I need to obviously see it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

And once I saw it, I fell so in love with it. And it was kind of sad because I haven't seen it since I used to watch it all the time. And the perspective that I had as like a 34 year old woman who had gone through all of those things and was now like, old enough to, you know, if I had been really young to have those people be my own children, versus the perspective that I had as a kid that was like, okay, she had sex at 15, so that means that that's when I should do it. And like all of these other things that I wish I, like, wanted to be like them.

[Griffin Newman]

I think we both had the exact same thing, was we, we viewed these movies as aspirational.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think part of it was we had this like very like bespoke, precious, privileged New York childhood that did not resemble these teen movies.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, my God, yes, absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the normal teen experience I'm not getting and I should be experiencing.

[Lola Kirk]

And yet I didn't notice this in the original when I first saw it. But when Jennifer Jason Lee loses her virginity to Ron Johnson, the way that Amy Heckerling shoots the ceiling and shoots her pov, which I didn't even notice then, I was just like, oh, my God, she's having sex. And that guy looks like Richard Gere. Even though the Richard Gere I knew was like, really old, I was like, no, he doesn't. Yeah, but yeah, I was like, oh, right. There is a sensitivity to these kids experiences that I never understood.

[Griffin Newman]

It is what is crazy about this movie and what makes it like such a kind of miracle film is I watched it in the same context as you. I was like, this is the movie that all the quotes come from, which is like a real flattening of what this movie is. And yet I probably watched it for the first time at 12 and was like, funny, good, liked. It wasn't like, I don't get what the fuck's going on here. And then every time I've seen it since then, it like deepens for me. It is a movie that kind of works from all perspectives. And we had our friend Tim Symons on the show recently and we told him we were getting ready to do this series next. And he was like, fast Times is one of those movies I haven't seen, but I feel like I've seen through cultural osmosis.

[Lola Kirk]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And was like, I know all the quotes and the memes.

[David Sims]

That was my experience with this movie. I had seen scenes probably, and I knew about Spicoli and all that. But then I watched the movie and was shocked by it.

[Griffin Newman]

The mastery of this film is that it is Both of those things that it's not one of those like. Well, people quote the four things. But actually the movie is much more this in tone in the way we always talk about like Saturday Night Fever. Right?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Where you're like. It gets reduced to three images and then most of the movie is like.

[David Sims]

A pretty, well, Saturday night or even more extreme. Right. Where you watch and you're like, oh, these people are. Not only is this movie lurid and violent and upsetting, but these people are sad. It's about how sad they are.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

It's not about cool people. They're. They're kind of cool. Like they're dancing.

[Griffin Newman]

But culture flattens it to like two dance scenes. Walking with the pizza and the BG soundtrack. Whereas this movie, you're not wrong if your perception is it's Spicoli. It's got big lines, it's got huge characters, but then it's simultaneously holding this other thing.

[David Sims]

I think you're wrong. If you think that I want to say you're wrong.

[Griffin Newman]

What I think this is my framework of. My argument for the value of this movie is that like, I think there is an insane simultaneous managing of tones that Heckerling is pulling off on this. That defies logic. That like this movie should not be able to cross cut between Spicoli and Jennifer Jason Leigh, let alone have them exist in the same shot.

[David Sims]

But that's. That's. Life is a Teen baby.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally. That's the magic.

[David Sims]

That's why it's so good. Fast Times at Richmond High, Pastimes at Ridgemont high. Amy Heckerling's 1982 film. Any of you ever read the book by Cameron Crowe?

[Lola Kirk]

No, I didn't even remember that it was a book until I IMDb tribute.

[David Sims]

It so out of print that it costs 500, $600 to buy like used copy of it.

[Lola Kirk]

Damn.

[David Sims]

And Griff has it.

[Griffin Newman]

I got a 90. You want to know why I don't? Cuz the cover's misprinted.

[David Sims]

You got a weird.

[Griffin Newman]

The title's like sliding off.

[David Sims]

I have an original copy of it that I stole, I will say from. I was at a family member's house in California. It's a long story and I won't tell it, but we were staying there and like all their kids were grown up at this point, in their 30s or what, you know, like and. But it was their house that they all grew up in. And I was staying in one of the kids bedrooms and I saw it on the shelf and I took it and I read It. And I was like, I took it home with me. So I guess I didn't.

[Lola Kirk]

Do they listen to this podcast? Your family?

[David Sims]

I would be stunned to realize, to learn the.

[Griffin Newman]

Does single member of your family listen to this podcast?

[David Sims]

That's actually a really good question.

[Griffin Newman]

Joey doesn't listen regularly. Right. My brother has listened.

[David Sims]

I think my brother occasionally listens. That might be that my mom's become.

[Griffin Newman]

A regular listener, which sucks.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

It used to be a sometimes thing, and now I'm like, she's hearing everything I say. Like me saying it sucks that she listens.

[Lola Kirk]

Well, I think she's probably hearing my mom has, like, sees my Instagram and it makes me want to die. So I can't imagine, you know, anything more in depth.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Fast Times. The original Highest Friends by Cameron Crowe, obviously. So it's his launch pad, too. It's a launch pad for a lot of people, but.

[Lola Kirk]

So Cameron Crowe was doing this before he was doing the stuff he did in Almost Famous.

[Griffin Newman]

It's after.

[David Sims]

It's after.

[Griffin Newman]

That's. The weird timeline is basically like, never.

[Lola Kirk]

Been kissed it and went back to high school.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the origin of this movie, right. Is that he doesn't have a high school experience because he goes on the road as a music journalist.

[David Sims]

He was. He was 22 when he enrolled in high. I told my wife this. I told Forky this. She'd never seen it.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it. It almost breaks. She was like, that's what this movie comes out of.

[David Sims]

I was like. And I was like, yeah, I guess if someone did now, that would not be greeted with high fives.

[Lola Kirk]

Or he just went back.

[David Sims]

He. He was. The school was aware of who he was, but I guess the kids weren't.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Right. He was 22 years old, and he sort of approached the school being like, can I quote, unquote, Enroll.

[Griffin Newman]

You look at the photo on the back cover.

[David Sims]

He had a baby face. He looks like he could blend in. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And he was also, I think, perhaps a little developmentally stunted from being on the road and not. Right. Experiencing these things.

[David Sims]

But, yeah, it's not. If I wrote a book now that I was like, yeah, I hung out with a bunch of high schooler people. Be like, the fuck is the matter with totally doing that?

[Griffin Newman]

But also, like, the framework of the book not being like, this is what I found going undercover, like, making himself the main character.

[David Sims]

No, that.

[Griffin Newman]

It is just vignettes. It's vignettes. It is just observation, which is obviously Cameron Crowe's kind of superpower. And then for the movie to also not go for the high concept hook of young faced reporter.

[David Sims]

Well, let's. Right for him to not be a character in the movie. Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

Just imagine Hollywood, even if he avoided that in the book, that Hollywood was like salivating and being like, oh, my God. The premise is Tom Cruise goes under.

[David Sims]

Were salivating. They made Never Been Kissed. They eventually did just make that movie. Amy, I. Heckerling, however, is here. We're here to talk about. Born 1954 in the Bronx in an apartment building where most of her, she says, neighbors were like Holocaust, Holocaust survivors. You know, her grandparents had relatives who've been in concentration camps. Lots of Jewish immigration to the Bronx, whatever at the time, you know, and that's. She probably lived on Grand Concourse. The way she's describing it, my father and mother, both accountants, spent a lot of her youth in Brooklyn with her grandma. Her mom was basically a teenager when she was born. She had a younger brother, so she was shuffled around. She liked Brooklyn a lot more. She lived near Coney Island. She loved movies. She loved gangster movies.

[Griffin Newman]

But the grandmother lived near Coney Island.

[David Sims]

She liked going to Brooklyn for this reason. She liked musicals. She liked James Cagney and Fred Astaire.

[Griffin Newman]

She's really into golden age Hollywood stuff.

[David Sims]

Yes. And then as a teenager, obviously, she's being exposed to like Mean Streets and Clockwork Orange and all these new homes. Hollywood movie. So she's really into all of that. Yeah, she has a. Wow, this is a long dossier.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, I. I'll say. There's. There's JJ Put a lot in here. This Cagney section we might circle back to. Yeah, we'll get back to that.

[David Sims]

Dangerously. Exactly. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you ever seen Johnny Dangerously? No. Her follow up to this is she basically makes a Mel Brooks movie that's a parody of gangster movies.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Michael Keaton, which I think rules. But it is like a wild swerve into like full cartoon mode, like gag a minute movie.

[David Sims]

When she's a teenager, she moves to Queens. She hit all the boroughs. When she's 14, she goes to high school at the High School of Art and Design in Manhattan. Starts hanging out at the Museum of Modern Art. And, you know, she's just whatever art is in her bones, she's into all that stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the other funny part of this movie is it is made by two people who basically didn't have this experience. Right. That like Heckerling.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Are not like California stories.

[Griffin Newman]

Heckerling's a city kid and Cameron Crowe doesn't really Go to high school until he's an adult there. I think it's. It's part of, like, them being very intuitive and observant, but also having a little bit of distance.

[Lola Kirk]

Well, I also feel like that's like, some testament to the idea that you have to be a little bit of a freak to be a real artist.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

Like, could you make a movie? I don't know if you have this kind of more regular experience. Not that there aren't amazing artists that come from totally regular lives, but, I mean, most of them are also. I mean, a lot of them are freaks.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yes. And at least, you know, the byproduct of some weird perspective.

[David Sims]

She goes to NYU film school, starts making weird student films that are, she says, sort of like 1930s musicals, but, you know, with hippie vibes.

[Griffin Newman]

She's doing postmodern riffs on the old.

[David Sims]

Hollywood movies she loves, and Blazing Saddles.

[Griffin Newman]

Was a big activator for her.

[David Sims]

Meets Martin Brest, who, I think we briefly mentioned this when we did his min.

[Griffin Newman]

There is a nice. Kind of dates him briefly hand holding between this series, the lynch series, and the Martin Bress series. Weirdly, yes, they're all connected, Right?

[David Sims]

Because David lynch was the original choice to direct this movie, or a choice to direct this movie, which is crazy to think about.

[Griffin Newman]

But also, Martin Brest and Amy Heckerling are like the cool kids who are on and off dating and become friends with Stuart Kornfeld, who is an AFI student who later becomes Mel Brooks producing partner and hires Brooks to do Elephant Man. But he also kind of helps both of their careers. And he is Judge Reinhold's boss in this. At the Pirate.

[David Sims]

What an asshole. Oh, at the Pirate.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the one who tells him to keep the uniform on, but he's this quiet figure who passed away a couple years ago who kind of like links a lot of American 80s film.

[David Sims]

So she follows Marty Brest to AFI, to LA. Yes, they both go to LA. They break up. She really hates LA. She hates that she can't get around at all. She's like a New York City kid. She hates how it all works. She doesn't know how to drive. Martin Breast tried to teach her and failed. Apparently. Eventually she figured it out, had to go.

[Griffin Newman]

JJ relayed this to me as a note of solidarity and consolation that Amy Heckerling failed her driver's test five times.

[Lola Kirk]

Do you have your license yet?

[Griffin Newman]

Of course not. What the fuck are you talking about?

[David Sims]

Lola, can you drive?

[Lola Kirk]

Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course she can.

[David Sims]

So can I. Ben. Yeah, three Drivers in the room.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben's keeping his sunglasses on this episode because he said it matches the vibe Heckerling gotta. He's also maybe still recovering from his I. Yeah.

[David Sims]

She hates la. So she finds AFI very elitist. She hates that it's a big mansion on the hill.

[Griffin Newman]

Another thing to pin is interesting when we get around to clueless. No 100%, which is clueless making a movie with compassion about the opposite of the person she is.

[David Sims]

That's true.

[Griffin Newman]

That came to be like, they seem. It must be nice to have that view on life.

[David Sims]

It has compassion, but also Clueless is a social satire. Yeah. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, it's. This is the magic of what she's good at.

[David Sims]

So her thesis film, she makes a movie called Getting It over with, about a girl who just wants to lose her virginity before she turns 20. She struggles to finish it because it's fucking hard, especially back then, to make your student movie. She gets in a car accident that messes with her.

[Griffin Newman]

One point for Griff for not driving.

[David Sims]

She really does seem to hate cars. And the president of Universal sees her short, wants to work with her. She's like, I'm fucking sitting in my apartment in Hollywood. I got no money and no car. I don't know what to do. I've got to go to physical therapy because I was in this accident. Tom Mount from Universal calls and says, like, get an agent because I want to work with you.

[Griffin Newman]

This is also just. Let's just say this is so unusual.

[David Sims]

For, like, a female filmmaker in, like, the 70s, like the early 80s. Whenever this is.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, there's this argument that gets repeated a lot quietly that, like, when the last 10 years, people are like, it's finally gotten good for female directors. And it's like, no, it's finally like getting back to kind of where it was in the 80s. It was better in the 80s than it was before that. And after that for 30 years, where, like, it wasn't great. It was still disproportionate, but there were a lot more like young film female filmmakers getting to make stuff within the studio system. In the 1980s.

[David Sims]

She's trying to make this movie called My Kind of Guy. Warner Brothers is interested. She calls it a female version of Carnal Knowledge. They like the idea, but then, like, whatever. There's an executive shift. The project dies. She shops it around, no one will approve it. There was only one woman making profitable movies in Hollywood, and that was Barbra Streisand, is her quote. Finally gets a home at mgm, but then an Actor strike kills the project. And she's like, you know, I don't know what to do.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the one thing to call out here is this is basically the second wave of film school students.

[David Sims]

Right, sure. Becoming more of a professionalized thing. You can go to film school.

[Griffin Newman]

There aren't that many of them, and if someone makes a good student, the studios are actually just keenly paying attention to what's coming out of these places because they're looking for new directors. Like, the model has shifted from someone works their way up from being like a PA or an exec, you know, works their way up the ranks within the studio and learns on the job to. There are now film schools where people are coming out of a pipeline with a showreel and they can at least get into development meetings or whatever.

[David Sims]

All right, moving on to Cameron Crowe. We all know Cameron Crowe's story of teen sensation. Becomes a Rolling Stone writer at, like, the age of fucking 15. Yeah, we covered all this stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he decides when he's turned 22, like, no one knows about the kids. No one's, like, written a book about the kids. Right. Everyone's trying to figure out what the kids like, but I'm going to go and hang out with the kids. And so he goes to the school that he attended for, like, some summer session once, Richard Ridgemont Senior High in Redondo beach, and walks in, tells the principal, I'm gonna attend classes as, like, an inconspicuous presence in this school for a year. The principal allows this to happen. I don't really get how that's possible. But then again, like, I don't know, like, I'm watching this movie with my wife, who's a teacher, and when they're, you know, dissecting a cadaver in front of kids, she's like, this would never happen. And I'm like, maybe it did, though. Like, I don't. Like, I feel like back in the day, teachers would just kind of be like, eh, I'm gonna do this.

[Lola Kirk]

I mean, where Griffin and I went to high school, they just hired a convict. The children. And then he. Me, too. To all the kids.

[David Sims]

I'm aware of that because my wife also went to the same school.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, wife.

[Griffin Newman]

We're gonna bleep it out. But he's gonna say it.

[David Sims]

I don't know if you know her.

[Lola Kirk]

That name sounds really familiar.

[David Sims]

You.

[Griffin Newman]

Definitely. Yeah, but we'll bleep it out the times we said it. But yes, yes. David's keenly aware of how overly permissive Our school was of everything.

[David Sims]

Yeah, they kind of went a little too far in the old. Permissive would be a good.

[Lola Kirk]

It would be a good. Could show. It might be a little bit more euphoria.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I think it's.

[David Sims]

I think now it's become very euphoria.

[Griffin Newman]

But like.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, well, I feel like kids. I feel like euphoria and I could be wrong, but euphoria. The kids like have sex and do drugs. I thought kids didn't do that anymore.

[David Sims]

Yeah, well, now the kids. Right. The kids are all incels who hate porn and. Yeah, right. They just play video games. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I think movies with sex scenes should be arrested. That you should put handcuffs around the film reel.

[David Sims]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

This is like a thing, you know.

[Lola Kirk]

Who knows there's film reels.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I took the joke into an abstract direction.

[Lola Kirk]

I liked it. I liked it.

[Griffin Newman]

So this whole argument of like, are sex scenes unethical because the characters aren't giving Fast times at Ridgemont Watch fast.

[David Sims]

Mine times Ridgemont High.

[Griffin Newman]

Insane.

[David Sims]

Yeah. The book is already like hot stuff. And so the scripture is pretty much written. Immediately Universal snaps up the option and they throw it right to David lynch right off of Elephant Man. Crow meets with him, but like, look.

[Griffin Newman]

When he takes the jump from Eraserhead to Elephant man, people were like, I guess maybe he's just a guy who can do anything. And there were a lot of examples of like someone starts out making weirdo abstract art films and then they just get conventional. Like George Lucas was kind of that narrative. So I think after Elephant man was good, people were like, I don't know, maybe he can make any kind of.

[David Sims]

Movie, but he actually meets. He meets with them and he says, this is a great story. It's really great. It's just not the kind of thing I do and good luck. And he apparently got into a white VW bug and drove away cool art. Linson, who is a producer, has seen Heckerling short and is like, this girl gets sex and let's face it, this is a movie about sex and she really gets it. And so that's why they take it to her and they pick her. The book blows Heckerling away. It had such reality to it. She says, you totally get into the kids lives and she goes to Crow and she's like, you know, like, has tons of ideas. Crow says that she was like a European director who wanted to make like this raw movie. And like, no, I guess no one else is probably coming to him with that take, right? Everyone else is probably Trying to sell him on a conventional teen movie. This movie is very unconventional.

[Griffin Newman]

It is.

[David Sims]

It does have main characters and it does have a plot, sort of, kind of.

[Griffin Newman]

It has narrative threads, clean arcs, and.

[David Sims]

It'S like half sketch, half narrative. And it has sympathetic characters, but it also has very unsympathetic characters. And it. Yeah, it just, you know, obviously it just depicts life realistically, but then also has the most famous, like, whack off fantasy sex scene in a teen movie ever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Which is like a parody of it, but then it loops all the way back around to just. Just being the whack off teen fantasy sexy.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what I'm saying, though. It's like this movie defies logic and how much it is all of these things simultaneously.

[Lola Kirk]

Which is the fantasy scene, like, where it's like getting out the pool.

[David Sims]

Right. But like, that is like a parody of dumb teen 80s movies.

[Lola Kirk]

Got it going.

[David Sims]

Like, okay, now we'll have a scene with tits. Because, like, that's required of these movies.

[Lola Kirk]

I did rewatch it on the airplane last night in the middle seat. And I gotta say there, I felt really got some neck cranes.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, the pilot came back to look over your shoulder.

[Lola Kirk]

But I thought people would be like, you know, maybe offended. And then I thought, I don't care. And that made me feel really happy. Finally. Yeah, it's boobs. And what are they watching? Everyone was watching the exact same thing last night, which was the Bills game.

[David Sims]

It is crazy to me to talk about pornography.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah, talk about pornography.

[Griffin Newman]

Come on. No, to think that, like, used to go on a plane and the pilot would be like, our movie today is Home Alone 2.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, everyone would find out in real time what the movie was gonna be. And you'd go like, oh, and then there's just everyone looking at communal screens. The same movie that has been edited down for planes. And now you go to plane, people are just watching fucking whatever they fucking.

[David Sims]

Throwing on a Serbian film.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, but that's the thing. You'll, like, sit there. So I'll be sitting next to a kid and they'll be watching fucking Terrifier 3 or whatever.

[Lola Kirk]

I mean, I watched Nowhere on the Airplane once, and that felt wrong, sure. But I only watched it on the airplane because I'd always wanted to see it. And the girl sitting next to me was watching it.

[David Sims]

You watched Rocky movie. Nowhere was that, like, available on the plane. You, like, had an iPad.

[Lola Kirk]

Girl next to me had her laptop and I just wanted to see it.

[David Sims]

It was like today on Delta, we Have a Greg Araki series if you want to check out that package.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah, and next time we'll be doing kids on the return flight. Yeah. Yeah.

[David Sims]

David.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah? I think it's time for an ad read, but I don't. I don't know what our sponsor. I don't know what the sponsor is of this ad block. Do you. I don't have any notes here. Wait a second. Ding dong. Oh, let me get the door. Let's.

[David Sims]

Oh, who's at the door?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, my God. It's friend of the podcast, past and future guest, Academy Award nominee, Amy Irving. Amy, do you have anything to say?

[Lola Kirk]

Hi, Griffin. And hello, dear blankie. This is indeed Amy Irving of Slow Christmas fame. And I'm here with some good news. My new album, Always Will Be, is out everywhere now. It is a record of my friend Willie Nelson's music, radically arranged by my incredible band Gulas. We have some very special guests on the recording, including Steve Earle, Amy Helm, Chris Pierce, Lizzie Ngo, Louis Cato, and Willie himself. I'd also like to invite any New York City based blankies to my album release show at City winery on Sunday, May 4th in the afternoon with special guests Steve Earle and Amy Helm. Until next time, Blanket. Thank it.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, Amy, thank you so much for telling us all of that.

[David Sims]

We love her. Come back to the show anytime. Amy.

[Griffin Newman]

Just say it to her face. She's still here. Oh, no. Now she's walked out the door. Creek slam.

[David Sims]

She goes with Crow. They pick through the book like, okay, what's all our favorite stuff in here? She's like, the mall is the narrative center of this book. So it will be the narrative center. It's like the.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's amp it up even more. That's the story.

[Lola Kirk]

I do understand the exoticism of a mall. As a New Yorker, me too now live in Tennessee and I love the mall.

[David Sims]

But aren't malls kind of dying a little bit as online? Right. They're not quite the social hubs that they used to be, I feel.

[Ben Hosley]

Not New Jersey as a New Jersey.

[David Sims]

Well, New Jersey, they're like, like historical art of buildings.

[Griffin Newman]

They're just landmarks.

[Ben Hosley]

Exactly. They're required. They're truly so in my DNA that like was where everyone would hang out on the weekends after school, I would just hang out at the mall.

[Griffin Newman]

But I, I have that same thing where once I was out of high school and I traveled anywhere and I still have this instinct. I'm like, where's the mall? I should go to the mall. You know, like, I wanna. I will understand the place I'm in right now, if I go to the mall.

[Lola Kirk]

Have you been to the Mall of America?

[Griffin Newman]

I haven't.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, my God, they've rolled.

[David Sims]

That's in Minnesota.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I've been to the American Dream Mall that's in Rutherford, New Jersey, which also has roller coasters and is a nightmare.

[Lola Kirk]

See that recently.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a new mall that opened during the pandemic.

[David Sims]

Go to the mall a lot in Nashville.

[Lola Kirk]

I do go to the mall because that's where, like, the nice stores are.

[David Sims]

Right, right.

[Lola Kirk]

Because I only buy nice things.

[Griffin Newman]

Well.

[David Sims]

Because the appeal of the mall is, like, I get it. So, like, maybe malls need to make a comeback, because it is like, I don't know what to do with myself. The mall will show me what I want. Do I just want to go eat some pizza and window shop?

[Griffin Newman]

Fine. Well, it's like the.

[David Sims]

Do I want to go, like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, like the ultimate third place? Because what if the third book is a million places?

[Ben Hosley]

Do you want to sample chicken teriyaki? Yum, yum, yum.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Lola Kirk]

But I also just feel like. And I'm sure it was like this in the 80s, too, but like, now it's so much more obvious how much, like, crap you can buy. Like, yes.

[David Sims]

Even, like, it's all laid out for you there.

[Lola Kirk]

And it just, like, I feel gross at the mall after a certain amount of time because it's just like, obviously this was made by someone that shouldn't be making clothing. And, you know, like, there's a. There's a kind of. Yeah. The purity of the mall capitalism has been replaced by my knowledge capitalism.

[Griffin Newman]

Another thing, too, which is just like, we're being sold all the time everywhere.

[David Sims]

Yeah. So that's less of an escape or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

The escape of just like, I'm going to a mall and considering buying stuff for the first time.

[David Sims]

I like the idea.

[Griffin Newman]

Versus, like, every social media feed is like, cramming stuff down your throat.

[David Sims]

London. And, you know, I would like. And I would do the same with my friends, which was like, I would go to the record store, your Virgin Megastore or HMV or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

We don't want to save that. To the soundboard. Go on, David.

[David Sims]

Right. And then we would go see a movie. It's just like, we just didn't get to all do it in one big building. We were doing the same.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like, for us, that was Union Square. Right. Where it was not a mall, but you had the Virgin Mega Store. You had theater. Like, there were like, you had the.

[Lola Kirk]

Places you choplift from Max Brenner Chocolate by the Bald. Oh, my God. What about Cozy? Cozy and Sando. Is that how you pronounce?

[David Sims]

Would you go to Ollie's? No, because I would go to Ollie's. Okay, you know what?

[Lola Kirk]

We were cool. Forbidden Planet. Forbidden Planet.

[David Sims]

Planet.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course.

[David Sims]

You're talking Union Square, not Lincoln Square. Sorry. So, okay, casting. Sean Penn had only been in one movie, Taps, but says he felt like this was his role. Like, he was already, like, sort of brimming with arrogance.

[Griffin Newman]

His father's, like, a top, top TV director. Did a bunch of Star Trek and stuff. Leo Pen.

[David Sims]

And.

[Griffin Newman]

And yes, he was, like, already at this age, had the reputation for, like, that Penn kid is serious.

[Lola Kirk]

And then I was reading on IMDb trivia. I'm gonna keep saying that until it sounds like a reputable news source about, like, how seriously he took this comedic role. And I was just thinking, like, whenever I've worked with actors who do that now. Well, a, they don't, but B, if they did, I'm thinking of one person who was just, like, so serious all the time. And I felt like they were a loser.

[Griffin Newman]

You want to strangle them. And also, usually you watch the Final Prick. They're a prick.

[Lola Kirk]

They're a prick. And he was probably a prick. But it's so good. It's perfect for that.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's also, like, he's being serious about playing a fun guy.

[Lola Kirk]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Where I'm like, he might have been less of a prick on this movie than on every other movie. There's a possibility maybe that him taking Spicoli seriously made him easier to work with.

[Ben Hosley]

Did you go method, you think?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, he did.

[Ben Hosley]

So he got stoned.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

Hell, I mean, his eyes, I was. How you could not. The eye, I was like, someone either is the best makeup artist of all time figured out how to do that.

[David Sims]

The eyes or just general, like, redness. Like, there's just something very, very.

[Griffin Newman]

He notoriously was like, I will treat this as if I am playing.

[David Sims]

You can't call me Sean. I'm only Jazz.

[Griffin Newman]

None of the actors, like, interacted with him. This seems like a nicer guy to interact with. With. But to your point, usually that's annoying because it's people doing that to play tortured people. Right.

[Lola Kirk]

Or Right. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

If you're taking something that could be this silly, that seriously, you're just kind of like, dude, you're sucking the fun out of it. You watch the final product and you're like, this is too overthought.

[Lola Kirk]

Well, you're not understanding the assignment. And this is something I feel as an actress all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

Like, I overburdened the script with my idea of what good acting is.

[Griffin Newman]

Very well said.

[Lola Kirk]

And I'm like, oh, my God. It was a scene where I was supposed to eat, like, pasta. And a normal person would do that with a knife and fork, but not I. I use spoons.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, this is the movie brain thing of both of us being like obsessive movie dorks is you, like, read the script and you go like, oh, this is that type of scene. Like, rather than trying to do the math on, like, what serves the character, you're like.

[Lola Kirk]

Or what serves the story right.

[Griffin Newman]

You're like, what are my favorite pasta scenes in movies? And how do I make this my version of that? Or whatever.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, he is so serving the. Yes, it is one of the best comedic performances of all time. There are also so many cases of things like this where it's like a serious actor who has an early, like, quote unquote silly performance and they're really embarrassed by it. And he's like, no, that's like amongst the best work I've ever done. I take it really seriously. He will do every retrospective interview.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, he just knows the values so much. It's just so funny to be like, oh, the pen kid. He's like, fucking Method. He's the new Brando. He does one movie, then he does this. It like, turns him into this surprise kind of like teen, like, movie star for a moment in like a very different vein. And he doesn't distance himself from it and yet then goes back to doing his other shit and becomes like, that guy times a billion. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, yeah, he did we're no Angels. He's made very few comedies.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And usually when he makes a comedy quote unquote, it's kind of like a crime comedy or whatever. Like, it's got like a edge to it.

[Griffin Newman]

But I also feel like the times.

[David Sims]

That Ty Grams is a comedy. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's very fun. No, he's been. He's done funny things, if you ask me, in the last 15 or 20 years. And almost all of them are self parody of making fun of how serious he is.

[David Sims]

But his my favorite Sean Penn performance all time is Milk, which is a drama, but is like such a. Like life, like, you know, filled with life. So humorous. Like, he's so great.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the same thing as Spicoli where you're like, there is like a beauty to the purity of this character and the optimism of that, where you're surprised that he's able to conjure that for a guy who's so, like, Gangsta Squad. But then, like, right. He'll show up on, like, Not Curb youb Enthusiasm.

[David Sims]

He's so funny in Licorice Pizza, playing a guy who takes himself too serious.

[Griffin Newman]

And even, like, he's, like, funny and Walter Mitty. Like, there'll be these things where it feels like he's riffing on. Sean Penn is humorless.

[Lola Kirk]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And he does it well.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But the bizarre thing is to see him nail this Mystic River.

[David Sims]

That's a comedy.

[Lola Kirk]

I thought it was hilarious.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

Okay, wait, I have to pee.

[David Sims]

Okay, go ahead. I'll keep. I'm going to keep doing context while you pee. Judge. Judge Reinhold is the only person they like who reads for the role.

[Griffin Newman]

You're on it.

[David Sims]

My favorite performance in the movie, kind of in a weird sort of a way. Wonderful and. Or also a performance that reveals more to me as you rewatch this movie. I've seen it, this movie, many, many, many times.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, we'll talk about the moment.

[David Sims]

Subtle. Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. But to Lola's point. Nicholas Cage read for that part originally. They liked him. They found out he was underage, would not be able to shoot adult hours.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

So they throw him the Brad's Bud part just as a letter. Like, hey, kid, we'll, like, give you a credit and help you get your SAG card.

[David Sims]

Can I tell you what Art Linson said about Judge Reinhold? As they are obviously wrestling with, like. Right. We do. We cast this underage actor and apparently they like Reinhold. And Art Linson says, look at this guy. He's as old as Ed Aster. Just think that's a great insult. And so they cast. Everyone in the senior class is basically played by a 25 year old, which is my wife remarked on immediately. She was like. It's like all the teen movies where, like. And I'm like, it's kind of starting, you know, like, Judge also. It's sort of unavoidable, but. Yes. And also, he just reads old.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say. I think you could pull him. He's about class at 17 and he still would have read old. I think he's just got a bit of an old man.

[David Sims]

He's got the gawkiness. He's so tall that he.

[Griffin Newman]

The deep voice. I love it. But I think to your point, in this movie, it feels. It feels deliberate and appropriately applied that it's kind of speaking to an ecstatic truth of when you are 15 or 16, how old an 18 year old feels. Right. Like the gulf between him and Jennifer Jason Leigh. And I know Jennifer Jason Leigh is also not a teenager in this movie, but she is.

[David Sims]

She's like 19.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

She's like 19 or 20. She's. Everyone's a few years older than they're playing.

[Griffin Newman]

Six years between them in real life feels reflective of how big the two years between those characters feels when you're a teenager for that very reason. Exactly.

[David Sims]

I don't know if you agree with that.

[Ben Hosley]

It's so authentically capturing what it's like to be. Be.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

That age and be that and that time in your life that I think you just settle in. And I'm not. I'm not so distracted.

[David Sims]

No.

[Ben Hosley]

By that fact.

[David Sims]

You know, I don't find it remotely distracting. But I'm also watching actors I know as older actors.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, there's that part.

[David Sims]

I'm like, look at Jennifer. Jason Lee's like little puppy fat cheeks and like, look at baby Sean Penn. Look at baby Judge.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

You know, like, I'm like, I know what these guys grow up to be.

[Griffin Newman]

It is wild to watch a movie like this where so many people in it continue to be relevant, where you're like, you have like many, many people where the careers are really long and important. And then you read the list of like so many of the other people who read for parts or were close to parts. And it's one of those things where you're like, there's an entire alternate cast of this movie that would have been good that aren't like Eric Stoltz and Back to the Future. Like, thank God we missed that. Eric Stoltz, of course.

[David Sims]

Also in this he is Matthew Broderick, Ralph Macchio, Scott Baio, Ali Sheedy are people who read and who came close or whatever. Jennifer Jason Leigh obviously turn big breakthrough. Phoebe Kates Art Linson found in a juice bar because she was just so gorgeous.

[Griffin Newman]

Jody Foster was. The studio wanted her for the Jennifer Jason Lee young actor makes perfect sense. Justin Baitman was offered the Phoebe Kates part and did Family Ties instead.

[David Sims]

Well, that worked out for everybody. Normal poster.

[Griffin Newman]

Tom Hanks turned down for Brad.

[David Sims]

Yeah, Tom Hanks makes total sense for Brad.

[Lola Kirk]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But I'm happy we got the judge.

[Griffin Newman]

Me too.

[David Sims]

Movies made for five and a half million dollars shot in 35 days. Sherman Oaks Galleria is the mall. They use Van Nuys High School, which I feel like is a high school that gets used all the time. Is the high school.

[Griffin Newman]

The main two producers on this are Art Linson, as we said, and then what's his name? Irving Azoff, who is a big music producer as well.

[David Sims]

Right. And he's putting the soundtrack together, which is incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

So there's basically this balance of, like, they got this heavyweight who's able to negotiate to get some of the songs they want, but he's like, I represent Stevie Nicks. You got to put a Stevie Nicks song in there.

[Lola Kirk]

What is that song?

[Griffin Newman]

Sleeping angel, which is an incredible song.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah. I have never heard it.

[Griffin Newman]

I know it from the fast time.

[David Sims]

The Eagles had just broken up, and he kept trying to get every, like, solo Eagles project that was starting up as well. Like, he'd be like, you gotta do this and this and this. And Heckerling is fighting for, like, I want edgy new music. I want Fear. I want the Go Gos. I want the Talking Heads. I want Oingo Boingo, the Dead Kennedys. Like, she's fighting for that. And they're just. The soundtrack is a compromise, but I.

[Griffin Newman]

Think it's a great balance. Like, it working and it. Yeah. There's a weird thing of, like, it having these leftover 70s songs that you're like, they would still be circulating. It's that thing people talk about with period films. Like, if you're making a movie in 1980, the art director should look at things from 1975, because it feels wrong if everyone has the newest clothes, the newest furniture, the newest cars. Right. And so there's that sense of, like, these songs would still be on the radio. And also, Amy Heckerling was clearly, like, finding things that were right on the edge of breaking through.

[David Sims]

It's perfect because when you're a teenager, you do listen to, like, old.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

You know, it's all in the same radio music as well as new shit.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a perfect soundtrack.

[David Sims]

They test screen it in Orange county and famously get terrible results, probably because Orange county is more conservative.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's. That was Art Lindsey.

[David Sims]

The studio gets spooked, and Art Linson.

[Griffin Newman]

Was like, this is not our audience. We made a movie that. That has sex and drugs in an honest way. And this is. These are not our people.

[David Sims]

They have to cut Robert Romanes's penis out of the movie because they got an X rating correct. When they cut it out, they go back to an R rating. Now, my Blu Ray lovingly includes his penis.

[Griffin Newman]

The Criterion Collection version is it a.

[Lola Kirk]

Flaccid penis just of him taking his pant?

[David Sims]

Just when they're undressing. It is, in my opinion, crucial to the scene because the idea of they're both equally vulnerable in that moment.

[Griffin Newman]

And the scene's timed a little differently.

[David Sims]

It's just slightly longer.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. It's a little more awkward. I mean, she gets, gets. Look, the abridged version of it has its own comedic power because it becomes so ridiculously fast. But, yes, it is, like, quietly restored on the Criterion version. I feel like there wasn't even a lot of noise made about it at the time, but it was the first time. You can now see her version of.

[David Sims]

That and someone within your. Oh, what is event. Sorry, did you want to say.

[Ben Hosley]

I was just going to say. I mean, not even a One Minute Man.

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. No, no, no. He dreams of a man. Of course we'll get to it. But it's just like. Yeah, yeah. The arc of that character is unbelievable.

[David Sims]

Someone internally at Universal writes a memo to Nid Tannen and Sid Scheinberg, who run the studio and say, if you release this film, like, the future of the studio is in doubt.

[Griffin Newman]

People were talking about it as if it was kids.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

As if, like, this is a movie with, like, you know, like, unsimulated sex and, like, intravenous drugs. Like, the level of outrage within then the studio is insane.

[David Sims]

So they kind of release it quietly, then are flabbergasted that kids are really excited by the movie and want to see it.

[Griffin Newman]

It does. Okay. Yeah.

[David Sims]

But they basically could never kind of catch up to the demand. And then it becomes the early VHS super smash.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a weird scramble.

[David Sims]

And famously, when you rent the vhs, the Phoebe Kate scene is completely degraded.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, my God.

[David Sims]

100%.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. Which then makes it mythical of like, I have a cousin who saw it in theaters.

[David Sims]

Right. Yeah, But. But it is an early example of a movie that owes so much of its life to video.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Because it was sort of the early days of video.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's also.

[David Sims]

And obviously it's a teen thing.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say it's a little early in the 80s teen movie trend, you know, I mean, it's not like the one that kickstarts everything, but it does feel.

[Lola Kirk]

Which one did kickstart everything?

[Griffin Newman]

Let's do a timeline on this boy. No, because the first Hughes is 84. Is that.

[David Sims]

Oh, no, no. Okay, okay. Well, you have to go back to, like, like, last picture shown, American Graffiti, which are these early 70s new Hollywood movies, but they're about teens.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Now they're vint. They're. They're set in the 50s. Nostalgic. But they're a little realer.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And so like, I feel like, I mean, and if you go even back even further to like the blackboard jungle or whatever, like there's, you know, there's like early.

[Griffin Newman]

Like those movies are real but also kind of wistful. Right. And have this sense of being a little more elevated because they are then 78.

[David Sims]

You have animals.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Which I feel like that is the, the to me, original R rated movie for teens.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Right. Like, where it's like, it's kind of contradictory. And it was like, why would you make like a grown up movie essentially that's about stupid idiot teenagers getting naked and swearing and like getting in fights or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. But it's also college sex.

[David Sims]

It's college. So it's a little more grown up. But still, it's like, it's not like that movie is for, you know, sweater wearing 40 year olds. Right. Like, I mean, no.

[Griffin Newman]

In fact, that movie flips off the sweater wearing 40 year olds.

[David Sims]

And so then I guess it's like rock and roll. High school is an early one. Right. And like, I'm trying to think of other, like, early. I mean, this is really one of the first ones.

[Griffin Newman]

To me, this is the thing. I think this Porky's is a turning.

[David Sims]

Point too as well.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And Porky's kind of is porn, right? Like, Porky's is like softcore porn.

[Griffin Newman]

I think those.

[David Sims]

I'm not saying that judgmentally. It's just like Porky's is a little bit more like, let's do some plots so we can get to like more sex jokes and nudity and stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

I put forward the notion that Porky's and Fast basically creates the two lanes that these movies go on for the next decade. Right. Where it's like Fast Times more directly leads to like Hughes and Martha Kulage. And then Porky's leads to just like Screwballs and Hot Dog. The movie. All the movies where like, dudes are things and jerking off.

[David Sims]

Have you seen Porky's?

[Lola Kirk]

No.

[David Sims]

Do you know what Porky's is?

[Lola Kirk]

Yes. I mean, I know the poster.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Of course there's a character named Booger.

[Griffin Newman]

No, you're thinking Revenge of the Nerds.

[David Sims]

That's Revenge of the Nerds, which is kind of sanitized Hollywood Porkies. Right. I would say. And Revenge of the Nerds has essentially like a rape subplot in it that it doesn't recognize as a rape.

[Lola Kirk]

Right.

[David Sims]

It's like, it's like, huh, this is funny.

[Griffin Newman]

It treats us sort of a, like, snobs versus slobs victory.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That, like, the nerds got one over on the uptight, cool girl side, which.

[David Sims]

Is an example of, like, how dysfunctional these movies are.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct.

[David Sims]

Which this one is not.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, this is what I'm saying is that there becomes this split into, like, the movies that are just, like, hormonally, like, tits and hijinks. Right?

[David Sims]

Like Losing it and Private School. And I'm trying to, you know, like all this sex comedies of the mid-80s.

[Griffin Newman]

And then there's the sort of like, inner life of the teen movie made compassionately, kind of like John Hughes movies, right? And Valley Girl and stuff like that, you know, even in a sillier version or whatever. And that this is the one that's, like, kind of both, but it's also neither in a much more intelligent way. But as you said, it's also neither either.

[David Sims]

Like, this movie is also one of the very few that's directed by a woman of any of the movies we're talking about. And it's just the way it depicts sex, to me, is all because a woman is directing it.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree. They, during. During the pandemic Museum of Moving Image, along with the, like, Queen Science center, did this whole summer series of drive in double features that we went to a couple of. We went to Robocop and Escape from New York.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I mean, you take a taxi.

[Lola Kirk]

Griffin. Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

I would make people drive me. My friend Ben.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But I kept on anytime I saw a good one on the schedule. And I was so scared of doing anything during the pandemic. I'd, like, text everyone I knew with a car and be like, hey, what, you want to do this on Tuesday?

[Ben Hosley]

Griffin wouldn't let me Hot box, though, which was so fun.

[Lola Kirk]

What a narc.

[David Sims]

Did he at least make out with you? Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, okay, I'm a gentleman.

[David Sims]

He put. He put out.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You bought the pot over the shirt.

[Griffin Newman]

Stuff over the shirt. Over the shirt. They did a Fast Times Dazed and Confused double feature that I went to with our old friends Ramona and Eloise Head.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

And Ramona just turns to me, like, an hour into fast times and is like, how did this get made?

[David Sims]

Yeah, well, it's a little bit.

[Griffin Newman]

Not to quote Paul Sheer, And I was like, it's directed by a woman. And she's like that. Oh, okay. But was just so confounded by, like, this is from 1982. And it's treating this stuff this way. Why does this Feel different than every other teen movie movie I've seen. And I was like, that is the key difference.

[Lola Kirk]

Something I feel like it really nails is how grown up kids are.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes.

[Lola Kirk]

Like, that's something.

[David Sims]

And yet aren't.

[Lola Kirk]

And yet aren't. But how grown up they, like, seem like they are. Like, I love how untimid Jennifer Jason Lee is. Or her character is about sex. And whether that's because she's compensating for a real timidity that she does have.

[David Sims]

It's a little bit that. But then she does actually. Right. Have a sexual boldness to her that she doesn't quite know how to express, I guess.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's the thing that hit me on this watch that I don't think I picked up on before. Does this movie not show a single parent?

[David Sims]

It doesn't show any parents.

[Griffin Newman]

But, like, that's to your point that it, like, it is just about treating them as autonomous individuals. They are not defined by their relationship with their parents, which I feel like is such a big part of all these other movies. Breakfast Club, that only has the parents at the beginning is so much of them talking about their parents.

[David Sims]

Well, but Breakfast Club is also them very loudly talking about their social class. Whereas in this movie, all of that is you there for you, if you want to think about it, especially how Damon is clearly so much poorer than most of the characters in this movie. But you don't really think about it until the end of the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

And the movie also doesn't really create, like, a social strata within the school of. Of, like the. The hierarchy of the clicks, because that's. It's just sort of like these are just happening. Right.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone's sort of coexisting. You have different types, because that's what everybody wants.

[David Sims]

Some is also about, to me, is it's like. It's like throwing back to a less cliquey time. It's college, obviously, but right. Where you're like, stoners, jocks, who cares? Let's all just, like, hang out, man, and sing songs and get stoned.

[Griffin Newman]

But this is. This is quite as utopian subculture culture taking over. Over.

[David Sims]

But everyone wants to go see fucking Van Halen.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Or whatever. Like whoever's playing at the, you know, Blue Oyster Cult, man. Where were you two weeks ago? He had all the Blue Oyster Cult tickets.

[Ben Hosley]

Then.

[David Sims]

Do you just, like, wait for them to do Don't Fear the Reaper and then you're like, all right, I'm out.

[Ben Hosley]

All right, thanks so much.

[David Sims]

Hopefully they start with that.

[Ben Hosley]

Yep. We need to shout out too, just because we didn't include it. Grease, I feel, feels like another.

[David Sims]

It's a good point.

[Ben Hosley]

Teen movie.

[David Sims]

Yes. And Greece before the musical is much raunchier. And then the. The movie version is a little. Sands it down a little bit to make it more.

[Lola Kirk]

But another movie that is nostalgic for an earlier time.

[David Sims]

Another. Right. 20 years ago.

[Griffin Newman]

That was the bridge though, I do think. Because also Animal House is a period piece.

[David Sims]

Yes, it is.

[Griffin Newman]

People forget that. But like all of these, they all.

[David Sims]

Feel like period pieces now. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But all of them were getting in through the system because it was like slightly older filmmakers making films about their childhoods with a distance that was more sellable to middle aged audience members. You know, rather than being like, we are just making movies for teenagers. Which I think was seen as like a limiting audience, like as a business model at that time. And then in the 80s, they're like, oh, fuck, teenagers have money, they go to malls. We gotta make more movies for them.

[David Sims]

So we've got. Jennifer Jason Leigh is a sort of major character. I'm trying to think of, like how you organize this film storyline.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like she's the ostensible lead.

[Lola Kirk]

She's the main part.

[David Sims]

She's probably the biggest lead character. And then you've got.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you have performances on your Oscar bracket for this movie? Because I was doing the math on this. David has a spreadsheet of who he would nominate in every category every year for decades.

[David Sims]

That is cool. You shouldn't be telling her that.

[Griffin Newman]

That's why I have to tell her.

[Lola Kirk]

David. I like this game though. Yeah, I'm not that cool.

[David Sims]

So Jennifer Jason Leigh is my winner for best Actress.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And then I have Sean Penn nominated, supporting and judge, and that's it. I don't have any. I mean, but that's plenty.

[Griffin Newman]

Who's she beating for actress in your adt?

[David Sims]

Oh, Sean Young for Blade Runner. Mary Warrenov for Eating Raul. Very underrated movie. Dee Wallace for ET And Jo Beth Williams for Poltergeist. I think it's kind of like a weird year for actress.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but I might be kind of.

[Lola Kirk]

Did Meryl Streep not make a movie that year?

[David Sims]

I think she did 82.

[Lola Kirk]

What was it? Sil.

[Griffin Newman]

Like French Lieutenant's Woman.

[David Sims]

That's a great movie. Or that's a good movie. Let me look up the Oscars for that year.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So the Oscars, you have zero overlap.

[David Sims]

Definitely. Because the Oscars for that year is the Gandhi. ET Oscars yeah, right. And so. Oh, right. Sophie's Choice. Meryl Streep wins for Sophie's Choice.

[Lola Kirk]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a movie that year she made the Meryl Streep.

[David Sims]

I've never seen Sophie's Choice.

[Griffin Newman]

Me neither.

[Lola Kirk]

Nor I.

[Griffin Newman]

We've all tried chosen the other.

[David Sims]

I haven't seen these movies. I've never seen missing the custard graphics movie, which is SpaceX. I've never seen Francis where Jessica Lange plays Francis Farmer. I bet it's good, but it's kind.

[Griffin Newman]

Of hard to see now. Is that right?

[David Sims]

I think a lot of these movies end up in weird. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

I've always wanted zones or whatever.

[David Sims]

I've never seen An Officer and a Gentleman in full. I've seen that like half on TV or whatever. Deborah Winger.

[Lola Kirk]

I'm cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool.

[Lola Kirk]

It's great. I mean, I love Deborah Winger. Huge fan.

[David Sims]

I do too. Big Deborah Winger fan. Probably five years prior. Would have been perfect for Fast Times. Original one. She kind of has. Well, did she make a movie with Amy Heckerling? No, she didn't.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

But I feel like, I don't know, there's a world where they would have crossed. Okay, so Jennifer Jason Lee is your main character. And then Phoebe Cates is sort of attached to her. Right. Like. And I guess Brian Backer, Rat is sort of a main character with Romanus. Kind of, you know, the, you know, victim of. Attached to him.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And then Judge Reinhold is sort of your third ish, like, most important main character.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I think the Rat Demone Sean Penn.

[David Sims]

Is kind of floating around.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that for the first half, Rat is leading that storyline. The second half, Damon is leading that storyline. There's sort of one thread that flips in terms of.

[David Sims]

This all feels like it flies in the face of how you would do this kind of event. Absolutely right.

[Griffin Newman]

To not force any sort of more conventional structure on the book, you know, or hooks or any of that kind of stuff. And to just have it be like. It's just sort of a fudgy timeline of a year.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Let's not even worry about homework or parents or. Right. Like, oh, I gotta get into college or I gotta, you know, none of that shit.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite thing about the decision to really center around the mall is like really tying each of them to their jobs and also forcing these characters to spend half of the movie in the dumbest uniforms possible.

[David Sims]

Really dorky clothes.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, it gets this. This sense of like this weird conflict between like you feel like a grown up because you have A responsibility, and you're making money on your own for the first time. But the payoff for that is you got to wear some dumb and flirt with the people you like while wearing that.

[David Sims]

It's such a big part of the book. And that's the Judge Reinhold character, Brad, who I love. It's such a great joke that he's like, I'm so good at this.

[Lola Kirk]

I'm a single, successful. I'd be successful guy.

[David Sims]

I'm on top of the world. I got to figure it out, essentially. And it's just like, he's. It's beautiful like the rest. Every other character in this movie, I think is more just kind of like, God, I cannot wait to be a fucking grownup like, and get out of this shit and, like, go do whatever exciting things I want to do. And Brad is the guy who's like, it ain't getting better than this, baby. I got a saber, baby. I got my Buick. I got my job. I got my girl.

[Griffin Newman]

I've been going steady for three years or whatever. You know what's funny? I'm realizing now Brad is kind of the original template for the Cameron Crow character. Okay, not as much, like, say anything, but Brad is like a mini high school version of a. Like, Jerry Maguire, where it's like this guy who kind of feels like, I have it all figured out. I'm a master in the universe.

[David Sims]

So fun pulling the rug out.

[Griffin Newman]

And then his life just, like, crumbles, and he's like, I'm getting it together. You know? Like, Brad just keeps being, like, going to get this back on track.

[Lola Kirk]

The thing that shocked me the most watching it last night was that it's Forest Whitaker.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's. He is. It's one of his first roles where you're just like, he's like, 20, 21 years old.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, he's in three scenes. But the way this movie's shot, you're like, he's around in the background a bunch.

[Lola Kirk]

But I always remembered, like, how that character had one eye smaller than the other.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right.

[Lola Kirk]

And then rewatching it, I was like, oh, yeah, that guy looks like Forest Whitaker with one eye smaller than the other. And then I looked it up, and I was like, that is.

[David Sims]

It's Forest Whitaker, baby.

[Griffin Newman]

We covered this on some other episode. Maybe it was the Panic Room episode. But this thing I find fascinating is, like, this is his first movie.

[David Sims]

Is that right? Yeah. He has one other credit the same year called Tag the Assassination Game.

[Griffin Newman]

And then he does Color of Money.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but that's four years later.

[Griffin Newman]

He has some other credits in between, or just one.

[David Sims]

He's in Vision Quest.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like us in Movie, then Color Money. He's got this, like, really, like, done some TV kind of showcase, extended role.

[David Sims]

Right. He's really good in the Color Money. And he's in Platoon that year.

[Griffin Newman]

And then after Platoon and Color of Money, Lola Forest Whitaker is like, I don't know my craft. And then, like, goes to drama school. He already, like, has five major credits and has, like, worked with incredible people. And it's like, I need to get serious about this. And then, hell, yeah. Goes to fucking conservatory and then comes back and is like, here I go. I'm ready.

[David Sims]

I mean, I don't. Interesting, because I. You sure that didn't happen after Vision Quest? Because he goes right from Color Money and Platoon to Stake out in Good Morning Vietnam to Bird.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, then. You know what? Maybe I'm right. Maybe it's in between.

[David Sims]

I feel like it must be before.

[Griffin Newman]

In between Vision Quests and Color.

[David Sims]

It makes sense, too, because he comes out of whatever that was a much more fully formed actor, so that I.

[Griffin Newman]

Knew there was a gap. But it has to be that because.

[David Sims]

In this, he's being cast for his physicality. He really, like, he looks the part. He's so funny. Just for, like, one minute, basically. Like, as the. I mean, I think the scene where Damon pretends to be his friend is really funny because he doesn't. He's not mean to Demone. He's just kind of like, okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, this movie just constantly, somehow holds back from the most obvious version of every scene, of every joke and, like, just grounding it enough in realistic behavior.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And not. Yeah. Not making too much of a meal out of the fact that, like, Phoebe Cates is making up a boyfriend, essentially.

[Griffin Newman]

Probably.

[David Sims]

Or whatever. Whatever. That. Completely delusional about a guy she had sex with one time or something that Damone is full of shit about, you know, his. His little business as a scalper that Brad is.

[Lola Kirk]

You know, he's. So he's not a scalper.

[David Sims]

No, he is, but it's just like, he's acting like he's some. Wheeler.

[Lola Kirk]

Doesn't have any money for the abortion.

[David Sims]

He doesn't have any fucking money. Like, he's clearly really, like, laying himself out way too much to get, like. People like to like him by getting them.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm asking the question, too. One of his, you know, big intro scenes is him explaining to Rat the, like, five moves that always get a.

[David Sims]

Woman right this kind of like, pickup artist.

[Griffin Newman]

This guy's got all the answers. My read, especially watching it.

[David Sims]

Is he a virgin when he has.

[Griffin Newman]

Is he losing his virginity? Yeah. Right. Yeah, of course.

[David Sims]

If not, then he's barely ever had sex.

[Griffin Newman]

I had always considered it. And watching it this time, I was like, here's 100%.

[David Sims]

This is the bigger question. Is Damone hot?

[Lola Kirk]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Would you demone this is when I was 14, I was.

[David Sims]

I might not him if I got to know him, because then I'd be kind of.

[Lola Kirk]

He was hot when I was a teenager, I thought he was hot now.

[Griffin Newman]

When I was 14, I was like, damon is so cool. And this movie pulls off this amazing narrative twist of revealing that he's a piece of. Right. But I was like, the first half the movie, I'm buying his coolness. And now I watch it and I'm like, see through it from the get go. This guy's trying too hard.

[David Sims]

I find him. I find the film is very compassionate to him, which I like.

[Lola Kirk]

I agree.

[David Sims]

It would be easy for him to be a villain because he does the most straightforwardly villainous thing in the movie, which is he doesn't pay for the abortion and doesn't show up more than.

[Griffin Newman]

Anything, like, beyond the pain, Cowardice.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

The cowardice is not showing up and saying, I'm sorry I couldn't get the money.

[David Sims]

And I like that the movie doesn't really punish him. Like, that rat and him sort of, like, shake on it. And they're, like, kind of still friends. Although it's always going to be weird.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And that he's just going to be Damone, like. And it's kind of like, you know, you're like, punishment enough that he's kind of, you know, a bit of a bottom feeder or whatever it is.

[Griffin Newman]

It is an incredible performance.

[David Sims]

It's a great performance. And then I really think it's crucial that at the end of that movie, near the end of, you see him coming out of his house, his apartment, and you're like, right, he doesn't have a big fucking house with a pool.

[Griffin Newman]

That lives in an apartment.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Like, it's like. Like, you just get more and more. You get to know him more as the movie goes on in a way that. Again, again, whatever, a regular teen movie would just not bother.

[Griffin Newman]

And it isn't overstated. But he.

[David Sims]

It's not overstated. No, no.

[Griffin Newman]

But there's the moment when he goes to Jennifer Jason Leigh's house and he goes, oh, man, must be nice to have a pool yeah.

[David Sims]

And she has a pool house to.

[Griffin Newman]

Have sex in a changing room or whatever they call it.

[David Sims]

She has a pool house. Yeah, you know, whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

But that happens like, 10 minutes before you see the one shot of him leaving and you've heard, you know, that she called him and his mom picked up and said, he's in the garage working with dad. Dad. Right, right. But, like, it's all that sort of stuff where you're like, so what's the structure of his life? What are his parents like? You don't see it. You don't know.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's just a little more lower middle class or whatever.

[Ben Hosley]

I love his fashion. He has such good.

[Lola Kirk]

Also his. His musical taste from his walls are, like, incredible. The tattoo you poster that's on the wall, like, you do get this sense of his aspiration and his desperation to leave this world that he's in, which is very different from the Jennifer Jason Lee character's life.

[Griffin Newman]

This guy wants to be Cameron Crowe, right?

[David Sims]

I guess so.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, as much as.

[David Sims]

Or at least he wants to go live in the city.

[Griffin Newman]

I think this guy lacks the focus to be like, I should be writing reviews or trying to interview musicians. But, like, what he dreams of is that kind of life of, like, I am friends with all the people I think are cool, and they respect that I am cool. His whole posture is like, can I present a worldliness, an awareness of culture, you know, a sort of understanding of business that shows these teenagers that I'm on a different level and I'm beyond this. And in reality, he just wants those people to be like, you belong here with us.

[Lola Kirk]

Well, he's like, you're an eagle. You know, I guess in today's terms, he would just have been like, a hipster.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

And Jennifer Jason Leigh, like, if you look at her bedroom, like, she's. She loves her life in a way. Like, she. When she takes Rat into her room, she wants to show him pictures, like, of her and her friends. It's so sweet. It breaks my heart, like, because she likes having pictures of her friends and she likes her family. And then when you see Spicoli's room, I mean, you really do understand. Yes, I did see that A lot of those pictures on his wall are of Dorothy Stratton, which is another interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, but that's.

[Lola Kirk]

We have two Lana Clarkson and Dorothy Stratton references in that movie. Yes, very interesting. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But she was star 80. I mean, this is like her era. Um, but. But even that, I'm like, the absence of the parents is so fascinating, because it doesn't feel like the stylistic choice that is calling attention to itself, and yet, like, they are less present in this world than they are in fucking peanuts. Right. Like, you don't even have a representation of their absence.

[Lola Kirk]

But you can. What's. What's nice to me, and I think, you know, is a. Is a good maybe note for filmmakers now is, like, you understand the inner lives of these kids without having any of them talk about how depressed they are.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally. And. And to. To the point, I feel like you were setting up when you see Spicoli's room, and especially that moment at the end when Mr. Hand is leaving and he clocks all the naked women on the wall and just kind of gives it a beat and then walks out.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

My mind starts to go like, oh, this quietly says a lot about Spicoli's parents. I don't need to see them. I don't need to hear them referred to.

[David Sims]

He's. They're chill about this.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. There's something here in the culture of Spicoli's home where it's like his entire room is.

[Lola Kirk]

Spicoli has no mom. Is the immediate thing that I think. I mean, you have the dad. It's. It's the little brother references dad. And then I don't think your mom would let you have that stuff on your walls.

[Griffin Newman]

There's all this coding where, like, this movie makes you kind of, like, spin out, considering the aspects of the characters that aren't stated directly through the little hints it gives you of these things. And, like, seeing Damon's room before you see him leaving the complex, you know, like, oh, his taste is good. Look at who he has on his walls. Versus, oh, he's the only person in this movie who doesn't live in a house.

[David Sims]

But Spicoli also has the most incredible fashion.

[Lola Kirk]

And I. Oh, those vans.

[David Sims]

The. The vans.

[Lola Kirk]

I didn't realize that that was, you know, originated by Spicoli.

[Griffin Newman]

He's right there.

[David Sims]

The kind of pink knitted sweater thing, everything. Turtleneck under the cult 45T shirt. And the last seen all of them, you're like, I know. The whole point of this guy is he just rolls out of bed right into a van that's filled with bonk. But I'm like, he's making choices. He's making great choices.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, this movie, I think, really.

[David Sims]

Extra cheese sausage, not a bad pizza order.

[Ben Hosley]

This movie really, I think, gave vans as a brand. Like, expose them to, like, the mainstream.

[Griffin Newman]

See him take them out of a box.

[Ben Hosley]

It Was like, skater, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Show the fresh one straight to camera and then fucking hit himself in the head with it. You're like, those shoes are cool.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm wearing my van slip ons today.

[David Sims]

I had a Vans. They would always just kind of fall apart on me kind of fast. They're, you know, they're not great. No offense to vans, who should sponsor our show. Like, love come on board band.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I do feel like they kind of fall apart on me quickly.

[Lola Kirk]

They're never going to come on board now that you said that.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, maybe you walk, but also like.

[David Sims]

No, but I'm playing hard to get. They're going to be like, we got to win a.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, Converse high tops. Another iconic piece of shoe or what I want. They fall apart similarly. They're. I think they're kind of made their ephemeral.

[Griffin Newman]

I was a fucking last duct tape.

[Lola Kirk]

Maybe that's the new tag line. Like, nothing lasts forever when you're enjoyable. There's something there just like puke.

[David Sims]

Green Converses, I loved them.

[Lola Kirk]

I had hot pink Converse.

[Griffin Newman]

Hell, I had all black. The sole, everything was black.

[Lola Kirk]

Those were cool.

[Griffin Newman]

And then I refused to retire them, so I would, like, tape them up to try to get another two months out of them.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And by the end of it, it was like, these are more duct tape than they are shoes. We're so.

[David Sims]

So it was like, when you're a teen, you're like, I don't get to get shoes that often. You know, like, it was such a big deal. Now I'm just kind of like, shoes are, you know, Maddox, you can just go get more.

[Griffin Newman]

I know, but it was just like.

[David Sims]

Back then, it really.

[Lola Kirk]

You did like, you can't order them online. You had to go to 8th street between 5th and 6th.

[Griffin Newman]

That was the shoe block.

[Lola Kirk]

That was the all. All shoes.

[David Sims]

I went to a uniform school.

[Griffin Newman]

There were zero shoe stores left on the block. Now. It's crazy.

[Lola Kirk]

What is it now?

[Griffin Newman]

It's like just juice bars and avocado toast. I'm going to AI.

[Lola Kirk]

Everything is chat GPT store.

[David Sims]

I had to wear black non sneakers. Right. Like, it's like I had a dress. I had a dress code. I was wearing a uniform, as many British students do.

[Lola Kirk]

So I wore soles.

[Griffin Newman]

So I wore Doc Martens.

[David Sims]

Wearing Doc Martens was the way to be, like, kind of cool while still, like, obeying the rules. It's like, these aren't sneakers.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And they are black. Right. So they're not like, they don't have.

[Lola Kirk]

Like a pattern that's why Dr. Martin invented Doc Martens.

[Griffin Newman]

I like you calling him Dr. Martin.

[David Sims]

Dr. Martin.

[Lola Kirk]

He's my physician.

[David Sims]

Well, he was hanging out with Dr. Pepper and who else? Who are the other doctors of Dr. Detroit?

[Lola Kirk]

Dr. Martin's. When I was a child, Dr. Martin and I. I used to have the floral dog Martin.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure.

[David Sims]

I believe they are. They are officially Dr. Martin.

[Lola Kirk]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, here's my strong memory of what we're talking about with like, oh, my God, I finally get to shoes. Is like trying to sell my mom. Like, oh, God, these shoes hurt. I think my feet are growing too much. You know that you try to jump ahead of, like, you're only getting new shoes when you've grown out of them. When you're still at an age where the size is like changing rapidly. Oh, my toes are breaking. I need new shoes right now.

[Lola Kirk]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's a really good performance.

[Lola Kirk]

How you got. That's how you got into the biz.

[Griffin Newman]

That's how I got into the biz.

[David Sims]

I mean, like, such a 50k was.

[Griffin Newman]

Discovered at a juice bar. I was discovered at a shoe store. And they're like, this kid's really selling toe pain.

[Lola Kirk]

When you have high standards and fancy.

[David Sims]

All the fancy things like a Dior.

[Lola Kirk]

Saddlebag or that diamond tennis bracelet, you go to ebay. There you'll find new loves that will never disappoint. Expertly authenticated. Whether it's that vintage pearl necklace or brand new ruby earrings, a Prada crossbody bag, or classic watches like that Rolex Oyster or that Cartier tank. On ebay, there are no limits to your high standards. Yeah, ebay, the place for new, pre loved, vintage and rare fashion. EBay. Things people love.

[Griffin Newman]

David?

[David Sims]

Yes?

[Griffin Newman]

Can you help me out here?

[David Sims]

Okay, what do you need help with?

[Griffin Newman]

My jaw's on the floor. Uh, oh, I just gotta lift it up. Thank you. I needed the help because my jaw has been dropping at some of these overpriced wireless plants.

[David Sims]

Yeah, look, I mean, some of these monthly bills and unexpected overages can really hurt. And getting a summer bod, because, you know, summer's around the corner. Griff is out getting your savings bod is in. That's a thought I've just had.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like David Spade peak SNL when I'm looking at the bills from these wireless planes because I want to say bye bye.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, Bye bye.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, sure. Maybe his third best character.

[David Sims]

There are premium wireless planes out there for just 15 bucks a month. All these plans come with high speed data and unlimited Talk and text, all of them are delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. And you can use your own phone. With any Mint Mobile plan, you can bring your own, your phone number, your existing contacts. Ditch overpriced wireless. Get three months of premium wireless service from Mint mobile for just 15 bucks a month.

[Griffin Newman]

Now I heard this pitch, I went, this is too good to be true.

[David Sims]

Yeah, your jaw fell down.

[Griffin Newman]

It fell on the floor. Well first it was falling on the floor in a negative subway because of some of these wireless plans and their prices covered that.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then I got this one, it was so good, my jaw fell on the floor with joy.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And I'm, I'm going, okay, but where's the wire? I go, how I'm going to be tethered to this thing? I couldn't believe it. I was running hoops through it like a magician going, I'm going to catch the wire. Must be invisible, right? But I'm walking around. I swear to God, I'm walking around with a cellular telephone. This thing is 100% wireless and the bills are jaw droppingly good.

[David Sims]

Fantastic.

[Griffin Newman]

It's, it is fantastic. I'm saying hello to Mint Mobile. Here's the thing. Sometimes when I've been on rival wireless cellular providers, I'm walking around saying, can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? When I'm using a Mint Mobile phone, I'm walking around saying, you can hear me? It's not a question. I know they can because I can hear them.

[David Sims]

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[Griffin Newman]

You know, I was going to say the only downside to Mint Mobile phones is that you can't play jump rope with them because there's no wire. Right. But here's the thing. You save so much money on Mint Mobile you can buy as many jump ropes as you want.

[David Sims]

Just I'm trying to figure out how to tackle this movie. Like I mean we start out with just.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, we smash your car and spray paint it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And that's how we'll get into the movie.

[David Sims]

Because it's a short movie, 90 minutes. It's nonetheless feels quite epic because I think of the year structure like you Just really feel time passing, even if the movie is generally kind of light.

[Griffin Newman]

And airy and it doesn't do the plot hole hitting of the seasons reminding you of what month it is. So many movies like this, really, partly.

[David Sims]

Because it's set in California where it's like. Like this.

[Griffin Newman]

But I feel like a lot of movies like this try to use, like, holidays to, like, pinpoint where you are in time. And this movie doesn't do any of that. You just sort of realize at the end, like, oh, the year's over.

[Ben Hosley]

It doesn't even make, like, the dance a thing. Like, often in these teen movies where it's like, it's all building up to the last dance.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not a thing. Basically, the day of.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

No one's talking about an anticipation until the scenes that are taking place that day. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

It's not what these movies become, which is, oh, I have to ascend the social structure of this school or figure, crack the code or whatever.

[Lola Kirk]

In fact, the cheerleaders are very made fun of. But I guess that was a trope.

[David Sims]

I think that's true at the time. I think, yeah, cheerleaders haven't gotten to be alphas yet. And that's such a funny scene where cheerleaders trying to say, God bless her. Like, we worked really hard on this. And everyone is just like, every this. I don't know if this is what kids were like in the early 80s. I wasn't a kid in the early 80s. When they're on the school bus and it's just fucking anarchy. Everyone just throwing shit at each other. Right. It does feel like more discipline came later. There must have just come some point where in, like, pedagogy, it was like, you know what? You should probably, like, make people sit still in their chair.

[Griffin Newman]

I also think you think of, like, the 60s and the 70s. Like, we don't have to be a.

[David Sims]

Military school over here when people stopped throwing shit at each other all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

I think in the 60s and 70s, you had this cultural shift to, like, the youth of America becoming very politically engaged and feeling the need to push back. And the sort of, like, unwieldiness and the chaos of their behavior was like, as means to an end, to make a point. And in the 80s, to some degree, that has, like, dissipated. And now it's just chaos.

[Ben Hosley]

And all the adults are so burnt.

[David Sims]

Out at that point.

[Lola Kirk]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the thing, like, you imagine these teachers were, like, 10 years ago dealing with students doing bra burning and being like, well, I can't push back on this or I'll look like a square. And now it's just kids being kids, and they're no longer trying to accomplish anything.

[David Sims]

But I think about Mr. Hand, played by Ray Walston.

[Griffin Newman]

Incredible performance.

[David Sims]

An incredible performance. So I'm going to say that Mr. Hand is the age that Ray Walston was.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Okay. How old do you think Ray Walston is? Great question, because it's going to surprise you how old he is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So my Favorite Martian's in the 60s or 50s.

[David Sims]

My favorite Martian, which was the TV show he's on.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Where he was in the mid-60s.

[Griffin Newman]

Arguably my favorite Martian.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

Had to do it. I debate. I don't know if you saw me just close my eyes and take the beat and go, am I going to go through it with this? But it was too far along. I'm going to GUESS he was 47 when they filmed this.

[David Sims]

He was 68 years old.

[Griffin Newman]

That's crazy. I was surprised in the opposite direction. I assumed you were setting me up.

[David Sims]

That's what you assumed I was doing. And I was shocked to learn that, in fact, he's really old at this point. So let's say he's actually 68 years old. That means he's probably been teaching since, like, World War II.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's been teaching for 40 years.

[David Sims]

Because I was really trying to put myself in this mindset of fucking. Spicoli walks into this guy's class. This guy just wants to drone on about the Spanish American War to. With these kids.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And Spicoli's ordering pizzas to the classroom. Right. It's like the most, like, impossible force, immovable object thing. Right. Like, it's just. He is never going to get through to this kid. But he's also not the kind of teacher who thinks he should be getting through to kids. Right. He's like, the kids should sell. While I.

[Griffin Newman]

Talking scenes. Yes.

[David Sims]

And I was just. I. Again, I had a lot of empathy for Mr. Hand, where I'm like, again, like, this guy, he probably served in World War II, and now he's just like, what the hell has happened?

[Griffin Newman]

But.

[David Sims]

But to America's youth.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that's my.

[David Sims]

This is what I've been confronted with. To my point, his way of reaching them is terrible. Like, he's such a bad teacher.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

No. To my point that it's like, Mr. Hand has had to deal with trouble before, but the trouble always had some kind of driving reason behind it. Whereas Spicoli is something he just cannot wrap his Head around where, like, Spicoli's lack of, like, shame or understanding when he is called out seems to be the thing that trips him up most. That when he's, like, trying to make an example as Spicoli. Spicoli just kind of lets it roll off him.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And yet it's like the thing in the final scenes where he's just like, I do kind of respect this kid. There's the combination of, like, he's not so beautiful. His brain is sideways. He doesn't think like anyone else. But he's not dumb. You know, he. He's like, you actually got close on that one, Jeff. Even when he's trying to explain the Revolutionary War through his prism, he's like, you' totally off. And I think by the end of it, he's like, there's something kind of beautiful about the way Spicoli functions. That he is so, like, unimpeded by the forces of anything else in the world.

[David Sims]

So I. Have any of you ever ordered a pizza to your class?

[Griffin Newman]

No. It's the coolest move in the world. I wish I had.

[Ben Hosley]

I wish.

[Lola Kirk]

Why didn't we do that?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. I feel like I did other dumb.

[David Sims]

I watched this with my wife. She's a high school teacher. And she's laughing at that scene because it's funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

She's like. Cuz we. And she says, like, we had to stop the kids doing this. And I was like, what do you mean? I was like, they were all ordering doordash. Because I was like, now they all do that.

[Lola Kirk]

That's too easy. That's too easy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And she was like, we had to make a rule. So it went from being the coolest thing in the world to kids being like, man, let me just. Doordash some chick fil A. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

An entire White Castle crave case into perhaps a class I had with your.

[Ben Hosley]

You've talked about this on the show before.

[Griffin Newman]

And the teacher just being like, absolutely correctly. This is not.

[Lola Kirk]

I remember 4:20, my favorite holiday for way too long.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course. Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

And I can't believe I did this, but I guess Spicoli was like a hero to me. I walked into 8am first period English class with a pint of fish food ice cream. And Ms. Kanter. Ms. Kanter looked at me and was just like, are you kidding me?

[David Sims]

That.

[Griffin Newman]

That was the response I got to the crave case was just like.

[David Sims]

That feels like a St. Anne's thing too, where it's like, you kids have so much rope and still you find like the boundary.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

As someone who was basically high throughout my junior and senior year.

[David Sims]

So that's when it kicked off for you, kind of junior year. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I. It's unbelievable to think back of how I would just be like bloodshot, red eyed, going to class and my teachers just didn't call me out on it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And I wonder if it's a thing where now weed is so pervasive, it's so readily available that I feel like now teachers are maybe like have to call kids out more so whereas it was.

[Lola Kirk]

I feel like they don't do it as much.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm like. It's like being legal probably makes it less appealing to high schoolers. Am I. Am I saying about that?

[Lola Kirk]

Bought my drugs.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Lola Kirk]

Like in a store.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right.

[David Sims]

Rather than getting like the worst drugs from the weirdest person. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Did you smoke on the oregano?

[David Sims]

No.

[Ben Hosley]

We would. There's a lot of weed smoking while in the car, unfortunately. While driving.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

Which is showing.

[Lola Kirk]

Adults do that all the time, this movie.

[Ben Hosley]

But yeah, it was mostly we would smoke in the car on the way to school and then show up late and roll in stink, stinking like blunt.

[David Sims]

I'd be so annoyed with you.

[Griffin Newman]

It is impossible.

[David Sims]

I would be like, school gets out in the middle of the afternoon, get stoned, then it's fine. Like, why do you have to get so. To dine in the morning?

[Lola Kirk]

I mean, I'm already winding down for the night by 3:00pm Absolutely.

[David Sims]

Well, now, sure. 16.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, it is impossible to watch this movie and not go down these roads and like trying to like, what was I doing and what were my things and like, what did I see in other kids and whatever. And yet this movie is not coded in any sense of sort of like wistful nostalgia. Remember one. Like, it is very unsentimental mental because it's not a.

[Lola Kirk]

But it's compassionate also.

[Griffin Newman]

Being compassionate's exact word.

[David Sims]

I was saying it's very compassionate for.

[Griffin Newman]

Everybody, this very like, fascinating balance. Especially when you think about all the things leading up to it being like, man, we're at the 50s, a better time. It's not great that we grew up in the 50s.

[David Sims]

It's not nostalgic and it is not about like, you know, kids versus adults. It's not Bye Bye Birdie of like, ah, fuck these teachers. The teachers are kind of. There's just Mr. Hand, who, yes, he's a hard ass, but he's just clashing with Spicoli, who is the other thing not being A very good student.

[Griffin Newman]

Mr. Hand is funny. Like when he's got.

[David Sims]

He's got wit.

[Griffin Newman]

When Mr. Hand snaps. Funny the way a teacher is, these students laugh.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not funny to the audience while watching a movie. He knows what he's doing. He's working his classroom. He's trying to get one up on Spicoli by making the better joke at his expense. Like, even that is much more balanced than just him being, like, mean, scary teacher.

[David Sims]

And then there's Vincent Chevelli as Mr. Vargas. He just switched to Senka. Please forgive him. Such a sweet performance. Beautiful of a teacher who, again, maybe is maybe traumatizing his kids by essentially showing them a cadaver. I don't know. Like, feels a little traumatizing for a teenager.

[Lola Kirk]

I think it feels important.

[David Sims]

Okay. I mean, I'm kind of with you on that.

[Griffin Newman]

Has the two weird, like, for lack of a better word, franchise extensions that don't work. They make. The second movie, the Wildlife, directed by Art Linson, starring Chris Penn, that is based on additional material from Cameron Crowe.

[Lola Kirk]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Is not a straight up sequel, but is like, let's try to do other Fast Times.

[Lola Kirk]

Is he. Spicoli's no character.

[Griffin Newman]

They were just sort of like, can we get a pen? Like, we just want to remind people of Fast Times as much as possible, but it's not a straight.

[David Sims]

Let's just glom on. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But then there was a network TV Fast Times TV show where the only two returning cast members were the teachers. Oh.

[David Sims]

Because. Why not?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I love that Mr. Vargas's wife is a babe.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

That's such a funny joke.

[David Sims]

Of course that guy would pull. Are you kidding me? Yeah. He's tall, he's interesting, he's got a good heart, but Ben.

[Griffin Newman]

Lana Clarkson. Did you realize who this is?

[Ben Hosley]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the woman that Robert Blake shot, correct?

[Lola Kirk]

No, no, that. That Phil Spector.

[Griffin Newman]

Excuse me. I'm sorry. I get them confused. I get those two crimes confused because they were so close together. They are.

[Lola Kirk]

They were very close together. Yeah.

[David Sims]

So rather than trying. Rather than trying to succeed at school or defeat the teachers or whatever the fuck. Okay, so Jennifer, Jason Lee. She wants to have sex. She doesn't even want to have sex. Like some American Pie. Like, we got to do it by this deadline.

[Lola Kirk]

She wants to be.

[David Sims]

She wants to be grown up.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah. And that, to me, I feel like, is very much an 80s thing. Like, I feel like now everyone wants to be a kid.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Forever. Like, everyone wants to be a kid.

[Lola Kirk]

Forever wanting to be A grown up. Like, when I look at so many movies from the 80s that aren't teen movies. Like, I was just watching basic instinct. That's 80s, right? That's not very early.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, oh, it's 91.

[David Sims]

91, whatever.

[Lola Kirk]

All movies from that time, every leading lady looks like a librarian. But the point is, beside me, Sharon Stone is obviously, you know, but even her, she's wearing like blazers and turtlenecks.

[Griffin Newman]

Demi Moore and Sharon Stone and all these, like, the major sex pot, sort of desirable leading ladies of the late 80s and early 90s were like adults. They were not children. They were not enchanted to wear.

[Lola Kirk]

To wear clothes that made you look like you're an adult. And I think it's much sexier because it actually, you have to imagine so much more.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

It was like, no, I'm. What I'm working with. Must be so amazing suggestion that I can wear this.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

And still drive you crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

I mean, obviously there were like, you know, a lot of other things in culture happening. That global glorified naked women's bodies and all that type of stuff. But I do think the style was. Look sophisticated.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

And I think that that's something that you really see in this movie. These kids want to be grown up. They are posturing as being grown up. And I. I don't know, I. I feel like the kids I know that are younger now, it's. It's really more about, like, embracing the commodity of youth.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

Like, they look down on. I mean, I look down on older people too.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Lola Kirk]

That was. And I still do because I know everything.

[Griffin Newman]

You finally figured it out.

[Lola Kirk]

But I always knew everything. Yeah, it just. I. I always learn that I. What I. Everything I knew wasn't true and just.

[Griffin Newman]

In time before anyone else realized. But.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah, I just think that it's interesting to see the way that these kids, like, want to be adults in a. In a different way.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, what does Jennifer Jason Lee, like, sort of respect the most or what is she most in awe of? It is the. The fact that Phoebe Cates is like, over it.

[Lola Kirk]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It isn't like, oh, my God, she's had so much sex and I haven't. And she's selling that sex is so exciting.

[David Sims]

Phoebe Cates is kind of like, oh, I had my wild period and now I've got my steady boyfriend who we never.

[Griffin Newman]

And so, like, that feeling of, like, the movie isn't centered around I gotta lose my virginity. It happens very quickly. Because what Jennifer Jason Leigh wants to do is go six steps.

[David Sims]

Yeah. She just Toddles right into a buzzsaw, which is. She gets picked up by a 20something and thinks that's normal because God bless her, like, you know, he's showing interest and like he's a grownup. He's like.

[Lola Kirk]

What she says at the end of the movie, I had never heard it because I just wanted to have sex when I was watching this movie though. But what she says when she said anyone can have sex, what I want is romance. And then Phoebe Kate says something to the effect of like we don't even have. We don't even have good pizza or something in this town. You want romance. Yeah, but I and Phoebe Cates has.

[Griffin Newman]

Been this whole time talking, talking about this like guy who she's like engaged to be engaged to. The implication that they have a more serious, mature relationship. But like, as you said, you get the sense of like this is probably someone she slept with four times. This is someone who would like call her when he was on break in between semesters, you know, Like, I don't.

[Ben Hosley]

Even think he's real.

[David Sims]

I think that she's fabricating it. I sometimes think that she's. He's made up that he's like a Canadian boy. Boyfriend.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But then the whole thing where she's crying at the end.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. I don't think she can.

[Lola Kirk]

She's too pretty to have completely made that up. I'm sorry, that's the other part.

[David Sims]

It's more someone that exactly is essentially just like has her on the side and she's taking it seriously because he's.

[Griffin Newman]

More basically like if the guy that Jennifer Jason Leigh has sex with in the fucking dugout. Right. If she had slept with him three more times over three years. That's what Phoebe Cates has.

[David Sims]

But then like, I just love the reversal of once he's discarded her.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Phoebe Kate's being like he's a stereo salesman. And it's like if you knew he was a loser this whole time, which he is clearly a loser.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Because he's picking up 15 year old pizza waitresses. Like, why didn't you point that out before? Because she's, you know. And I'm not saying Phoebe ca. Is a bad friend. She's just like, like an affirming friend, you know?

[Lola Kirk]

I mean, I. I had that friend.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ben Hosley]

That's what I was responding.

[Griffin Newman]

Can you say it in the. Bleep it out who it is?

[Lola Kirk]

It was kind of like a composite. I feel like it was so many people.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Okay, that's. I was just wondering if you were pinning it on one person. We don't need to say a really bad.

[Lola Kirk]

No, but just the girl that you thought had everything. And then you get older and you realize she just probably had a really unhappy home life. I will say nuts.

[Griffin Newman]

I will say this without naming the person, but there was, like, a friend of ours in high school who talked to me about losing their virginity very young in, like, this very kind of, like, ah, I got it all over with. It didn't. You know, I don't. I don't put a lot of value on that kind of thing. It was just whatever. Who. In that kind of Phoebe. Kate's way. I'll tell you afterwards. And then, like a year or two later, she slept with someone at her school and made a really big deal of it to me. And I was like, why are you making such a big deal of it? You'd already, like, had sex before. And then like, five years after, that was like, okay, no, of course I hadn't had sex before you believed that story I told you. You know, And I feel like there's some of that with the Phoebe Cates character and Jennifer. Jason Lee is, like, not being. She doesn't care about how she's perceived by other people. She is such a sincere person, but she's not naive. What she's really in pursuit of is, like, experience. Right. Not just sexual experience, but she's like, I want to figure out what it's like to be a person, what it's like to be an adult, to try all these things, to have feeling like.

[Lola Kirk]

Right.

[David Sims]

Except for Judge Reinhold.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Who feels like he's 45. Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

He does feel like he's 45.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Lola Kirk]

She's still a virgin, Judge. Yes. Yes. No, I think his character is a virgin girlfriend.

[Griffin Newman]

But there's that whole scene where he's saying to her, do you want to go to the point tonight? And she goes, for what? And he goes, you know. And she goes like, I don't. Brad, I'm not going to use sex as a tool.

[David Sims]

I've always taken. That. Is like, again with the 45ness that he's like a. They're like an old married couple.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, my God. No.

[David Sims]

They don't even have sex.

[Lola Kirk]

He's never had sex.

[David Sims]

No.

[Ben Hosley]

I think it's an important detail that he hasn't had sex.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

But his younger sister has.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think my other read on it is that moment of her saying, I don't want to use sex as a tool. Comes 30 seconds after he's Bragging to the other guy on Friday line about how good she is in bed and the immediate shutdown. I think I used to read it the way you're saying it. And this time I was like, oh no, it's complete posture. And he's just once again being like, maybe if we go to the point one more time, she puts out. Which he's just wrong about.

[David Sims]

Yeah, interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

And she's over him.

[David Sims]

I just. Right. To me, the joke of him is so much just like that he's old before his time and Right. Is just acting like. Anyway, yeah, I, I get it. I got it. I mean, I don't think him jerking off to Phoebe Cates really confirms it in either direction because he's still a horny teen as much as he's like basically filing his 1099. Right. You know, after he does that. Whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. His, his iconic response in that scene.

[David Sims]

One of the most incredible line readers.

[Griffin Newman]

When you dig into it, what's so funny about it is his response, more than embarrassment of being caught, is like.

[David Sims]

Kids these days have no manners. Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like we don't even knock anyone.

[David Sims]

Can't even go spy on the pool from the bathroom. And like.

[Griffin Newman]

But his response is as if she interrupted him building a house of cards.

[David Sims]

You know, doing his taxes. Right. And I. That scene again, 10, 15 years later, that scene is I, I'm sorry to keep bringing up American Pie, which our friend directed and is a funny movie. Like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But in, you know, it's like that scene is a crazy set piece where something wild happens. And instead it's Phoebe K. Going like, oh, doesn't even knock anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

And like that's it you think it would be. And it's also not only that. Immediately undercut by you're. You're going with the like the slow motion iconic Phoebe Cates shot, right? And the Cars song playing and everything. And then you know, cut, cross cutting between that and like Judge Reinhold just looking like a dork masturbating, which is a silly looking act. Right.

[David Sims]

Especially if you're just sort of like standing.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? But then the immediate like puncturing of the reality before she even comes in and knocks is you cut to regular motion. Phoebe Cates getting out of the pool and she's got water in her ear. Like this immediate re centering of like here's now replaying the actual version of her getting out of a pool and she's like G. And she plays it so well, it's so funny. But she's just sort of like, walking weirdly.

[David Sims]

She's so funny. I love when Rat and Damone show up later.

[Lola Kirk]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And they, like, jump in the pool and they're rough housing and she's just like. Immediately, it's like, I'm getting the out.

[Griffin Newman]

Of here for both of them. But. But I. It is interesting. I have. I have had conversations with people who I think incorrectly have said that, like, there is a ne. How am I going to frame this? I'm relaying someone else's sentiment that I disagree with. Okay. That, like, there is a necessity for the male gaze in the film ecosystem because films are sexual. And there is something about capturing female beauty that female directors can't do. And it has led to a sexual culture in film. This is a thing that I have had said to me by a person or two that I always was like, I don't really agree with your take. But also watching this movie. Right. And I understand the scene is presented as parody. That it is sort of like a riff on these types of scenes in other movies. I'm also like, this is Amy Heckerling shooting what has become the basic high watermark for like, male fantasy image and.

[David Sims]

Sure. Yeah. Like slow motion, mtv, you know, whatever. Car commercial. Like, yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

She did it better than any man could do it. And is also making it funny and commentary at the same time.

[Lola Kirk]

Totally.

[David Sims]

Absolutely. I mean, this is a genius movie that's beautifully directed.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

Wait, what was the take that.

[David Sims]

Dude, I. Yeah. I can't even begin to parse you. I know you're trying to sum up correct a bad, somewhat dumb argument.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

But that we're. Films have become sexless because women direct them, because men.

[Griffin Newman]

That male directors taking away too. I think the framing of it. It was. Male directors have now been scared out of being horny as filmmakers. So those films have become sexless. And the only people who are allowed to depict sexuality are women. And women don't know how to shoot female bodies in a way that is actually titillating.

[Ben Hosley]

You know, Mr. Bernard in his office has, like, a button that drops people into a pit. I think that take needs to be dropped.

[Griffin Newman]

Drop in the.

[David Sims]

Drop him in a pit.

[Griffin Newman]

Drop in a pit.

[David Sims]

He's the one plugging in onto the airwaves.

[Lola Kirk]

Women are much more sexually creative than men.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree. That's. I mean, this is. My point is like, this scene is such a good example of that. And I think there are many movies that have come out over the last 10 years in particular that are great, like, arguments in that favor. Yeah.

[David Sims]

We're again, we're arguing against this trauma and he's not in the room. So I think we should move on.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we're doing a lot of invoking people who stress to name on Mike in this.

[David Sims]

All right, so Jennifer. So Jennifer, Jason Lee's character of course is called Stacy. And she, she hooks up with Brad on the bench, the bleachers. What, what does it say? What, what's the graffiti that she focuses on?

[Ben Hosley]

Something about surfers.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah. Or shark. Like die, die shark.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I think it's the, it's like the name of the team. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, I just love that, that she's just like, uhhuh. I guess I'm looking at this while I have this kind of seminal life changing experience.

[Griffin Newman]

But to what you said also, like, Phoebe Cates is like, fucking go for it. When she's kind of like, I don't know, he is kind of cute. Right. Like, I need your affirmation before I call this guy back. Phoebe Cates is like, yes. And then immediately on the other end of it is like, that guy's a dork and a creep and a loser.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. It's this feeling of like she just wants to get this over with 100%.

[David Sims]

Right. Which is I'm sympathetic to obviously, but you know, she doesn't sympathetic too, obviously. Just the feeling of like, I just want to get that out of the way. The like, you know, the pressure of the first time core.

[Lola Kirk]

I never realized until now, you know, that they have sex on a like wooden bench dugout. Like disgusting.

[Griffin Newman]

For how much this movie was received within Universal and that by the MPAA at the time is like, this is pornographic. This film is like toxic, X rated, lewd. This film has two sex scenes and both of them are basically as unsexy as a scene could possibly possibly be. And take place in the worst environment. One is in a dugout.

[Lola Kirk]

The pool house is sexy.

[David Sims]

The pool house scene is sexy.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the build up to it is sexy. It's a lot of sexy space.

[Lola Kirk]

I did a lot of. Of sexy things in pool houses as a teenager.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. I'm saying the moment he gets on top of her, you become aware of like, oh, this couch is not big enough for their bodies. You know, like, the undressing is sexy, the kissing is sexy.

[David Sims]

No, this is why they got the X rating. It's too realistic. It's exactly. It's not that it's sexy, it's that it's realistic.

[Griffin Newman]

At the time, everyone was like, this is too pornographic. And you're like, no, what you're actually responding to is this makes you uncomfortable because it's honest.

[David Sims]

The Ebert review, did JJ put it in his dossier? Let's see.

[Lola Kirk]

Who's this JJ?

[Griffin Newman]

JJ's researcher. If you want to go ahead and fire him quickly, feel free.

[Lola Kirk]

No, no, no. I'm impressed by it.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of a gift we offer to our guests, the ability.

[David Sims]

So Roger gave this one star and it's a review I think about all the the time because it is clearly written with the perspective that you're talking about.

[Lola Kirk]

What did Siskel say?

[David Sims]

I don't know. I can find out.

[Griffin Newman]

Gave it one boner up, probably. I was fucking horny.

[David Sims]

The lead of the review is, how could they do this to Jennifer Jason Lee? How could they put such a fresh and cheerful person into this scuzz pit of a movie?

[Griffin Newman]

It's the same fucking Blue Velvet review.

[Lola Kirk]

Yes.

[David Sims]

It's like, and I think he did somewhat soften with age and understand that maybe he was being a fuddy duddy essentially with this stuff. But like, he's so scandalized because he feels for Jennifer. He's like, look, I can watch Animal House. That's a cartoon. I get it. That can be vulgar. I'm not opposed to vulgarity. But like sweet little Jennifer J.

[Griffin Newman]

Is giving such an emotionally honest performance.

[Lola Kirk]

Hollywood royalty in a way that's maybe part of it.

[David Sims]

Like, hey, you have a star on your hands here. So why is she in this like, you know, lurid movie?

[Griffin Newman]

And, and we'll say to Ebert's credit for someone of his stature and prominence.

[David Sims]

Whatever happened to upbeat sex? Whatever happened to love and lust and romance and scenes where good looking kids.

[Griffin Newman]

Had a little joy and excited Russ Meyers movies. I mean, that's right.

[David Sims]

He's just like, this is pure exploitation. And I'm like, bro, characters have bad sex with each other all the time because they don't know what they're doing.

[Lola Kirk]

Adults have bad sex with each other all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the revolution of this movie also is like showing things like that and not doing it in a tortured rebel without a causeway. Like being able to make it a fact of life.

[David Sims]

Not to be all. If a man directed this movie, sure. But if a man directed this movie, her getting an abortion would be this like tragedy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

It would be this like awful experience. The film really like, instead, it is a bummer day that she has.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But it is kind of something.

[Lola Kirk]

She's like, you know, well, and she's so strong too in that scene where she just Says, like, no, I. I told my boyfriend to pick me up downstairs. Like, she doesn't make too much.

[David Sims]

She's not sobbing.

[Lola Kirk]

No.

[David Sims]

On a couch. She's not confessing to her parent. You know, Like, I just think Amy Heckerling gets this far more like most directors.

[Griffin Newman]

I also think a male does director would make Damone worse or it would.

[David Sims]

Just all be much more.

[Griffin Newman]

They would make that a lot more toward intelligence too.

[David Sims]

He exactly came, you know, two seconds into having sex with this person.

[Griffin Newman]

They would make Damone worse to make him more clear cut piece of shit. To be like, well, he's a really bad example of a guy versus all of this guy's failings coming out of like a cowardice, a vulnerability, you know, an insecurity. Like, I like that we see. See him making the calls, trying to get the money.

[Lola Kirk]

I like that scene.

[Griffin Newman]

See him being tortured.

[David Sims]

He makes some effort and then fails and is right.

[Griffin Newman]

Too cowardly to reveal that he sucks. But you see it on his face when he's making the calls of him just being like, do I have the courage to go to her and say, I don't have the cash. Is it better to not show up?

[David Sims]

There is also, to me, total emotional truth of like, do we see a scene later where she confronts him in the school?

[Griffin Newman]

No, no.

[David Sims]

Like, obviously he has the graffiti. This like. But like, no, the confrontation is him and Rat almost fighting in the locker room or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, what's the big.

[David Sims]

And then being like, whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

The bigger confrontation is her making four attempts to talk to him and him brushing her off, where it's like, that's the first offense, right? Of just like, he's acting like I don't exist. There's that amazing. I think it all plays out in one shot of Damon walking down the hallway like he's king shit. And for the first time in the movie, you're like, oh, this guy's got real confidence. Confidence. Now he feels so good about himself because Jennifer Jason Lee wanted to have sex with him. We just watched him have the worst sex of all time. He's taking it as a win that he was desired. And he's eyeballing the other girls in the hallway, right? He's making faces at them. He's like, I can get anyone. And then she walks up to him and he immediately shuts down. And it's like, he's got this power of being like, I am someone a woman wants to sex with. That makes me feel grown up and cool. And his greatest vulnerability is the one person in the world who actually knows what having sex with him is like, which is terrifying to him.

[Lola Kirk]

Right. You know, I also think what's so interesting to the point of, like, if a man directed this. This movie, would we have this incredible part? I feel like that archetype in the movie is. And this happens in fast times as well, but, like, is the character that the woman should like the guy, good guy. And we see very clearly, like, why she doesn't as well. Like, she's. I made the first move. I made the second move. I made every move. Like, he's got that insecurity. I like that, though. We're not going like, no, don't be with Damone. Be with Rat. We're like, well, I. I see why you wouldn't want to be with Rat.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's even better than that because it's like so many versions of this movie. She spends the entire film taking Rat for granted, and then only after she's been treated worse by other people.

[David Sims]

She fucking tries. She tries. She sits his ass down on her bed and he's.

[Lola Kirk]

She gets into. Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

He builds up courage to make, like, one tenth of a move, and she's totally open, and she gives him multiple shots and then goes to her and is like, I think he doesn't like me. I don't get what the fuck is going on.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And then later, she's like, I think he's nice. Like, you know, when Damon is like, I'm friends with Radish, but I like you.

[Lola Kirk]

I mean, she's so hot.

[David Sims]

She is.

[Lola Kirk]

She's so hot that then she could go be in Single White Female and be so scary. Yes.

[David Sims]

And kind of hot, though.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah, and kind of hot, too. For sure. I would wear those out. I mean, fashion icon.

[David Sims]

She is an icon.

[Lola Kirk]

She is an icon.

[David Sims]

Always. I was trying to describe her to my wife, who, again, is, like, so pop culture illiterate that, like, give her a. I'll be like, it's Jennifer Jason Lee. She's like, I don't know who that is. Hard to kind of describe Jennifer Jason Lee.

[Griffin Newman]

She's been like different things without feeling like she has defined phases.

[David Sims]

But you're like a major, major actress, but never quite the Meryl Streep type. Right? Like, more like sort of an indie arty actress by. Everybody can do character stuff. Can do, like, comedy can do, you.

[Griffin Newman]

Know, There's a moment in the 90s where there was kind of a quiet, like, is she the best actress working today?

[David Sims]

Yes, there was. It's the sort of Single white female shortcutsucker. Mrs. Parker and the vicious.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, my God. Shortcuts.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, but that's like an incredible Runway.

[David Sims]

But none of those movies are hits.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Except for, like, never gets an Oscar nomination until hateful 8. It was kind of.

[Lola Kirk]

Wow. I did not know that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes. And like that it's especially Mrs. Parker, Georgia, which are two Oscar snubs in a row. Right. Where it's like she played Dorothy Parker. You didn't like that? You know, like she.

[Lola Kirk]

Like she did.

[David Sims]

Yeah. That movie rocks.

[Lola Kirk]

I haven't seen it. Maybe I'll watch that.

[Griffin Newman]

Today was supposed to be a bit of an Oscar vehicle for her.

[David Sims]

Which one? Sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

Kansas City was sort of framed as well.

[David Sims]

That movie didn't go over at all. And like, you've seen that movie?

[Lola Kirk]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Altman's Kansas City is really good.

[Lola Kirk]

What? No, I have not seen that prohibition.

[Griffin Newman]

Jazz movie with Jennifer Jason Leigh, Miranda Richardson and Harry Belafonte Rules.

[Lola Kirk]

I just watched Copycat with Harry Belafonte and. Sorry.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Lola Kirk]

Harry Connick Jr. I'm TI. Sorry, I'm.

[David Sims]

Why did you.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait.

[David Sims]

Why did you watch Copycat?

[Lola Kirk]

Cuz I love 90s neon.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, man.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Hell, yeah. That movie isn't even that good. But, like, the vibes are out of control.

[Lola Kirk]

Does Harry Belafonte sing? Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Lola Kirk]

And so does Harry Connick. And they're both named the Brock.

[Griffin Newman]

Harry.

[David Sims]

It is. It is so funny to imagine confusing them.

[Lola Kirk]

There's a Miriam Makeba and Harry Belafonte record, which I really love and I highly recommend people listen to.

[Griffin Newman]

I just realized I have a better pitch. Kansas City is Altman doing jazz. Thelma and Louise.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, amazing.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what it is.

[David Sims]

An Evening with Belafonte. Makeba. That's what the record's called.

[Lola Kirk]

It's really beautiful.

[David Sims]

Jennifer Jason Lee. Right. And then by the late 90s, early 2000s, when you've got like anniversary party and in the cut and stuff, it's like right now she's already graduated to character actress in a way. Just an interesting career.

[Griffin Newman]

And not only character actress, but it's like she's either in kind of like small indies or bigger parts, or she's like in stuff like Road to Predition, where you're like, she's in big movies, but kind of entirely thankless role.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Whereas, like, Phoebe Kates obviously is a star throughout the 80s. And then it's like, I'm marrying Kevin Klein. Peace. Never.

[Griffin Newman]

Great choice.

[Lola Kirk]

I love when that. When sex symbols do that, it's kind of like Brigitte Bardot being like, I'll be preserved, like done with you guys looking at me. And now I'm going to go like, you know, live breed dogs. I think she breeds dogs.

[Griffin Newman]

Can we also just like frame of reference? Because I feel like this is a thing my dad would talk about all the the time. And it's a little Gutenberg adjacent. But the run Judge Reinhold has of just like four or five years of being at the center of the culture where people were like, is Judge Reinhold just golden?

[David Sims]

Okay, so give it to me.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I might get this order wrong, but I'm just like, Judge Reinhold is in fast times. Beverly Hills Cop Gremlins.

[David Sims]

Yep, true. He's also in stripes.

[Griffin Newman]

He's also in stripes. Like 85. He's in stripes. Which is the year before five for judge is insane.

[David Sims]

It's pretty insane.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, yeah, I know he's not the guy in any of it.

[David Sims]

That's the thing.

[Griffin Newman]

But I'm saying the through line of like this guy keeps on showing up on the right sets.

[David Sims]

He's very much around. But I do feel like he's, you know, he's a reliable white guy. Like to be like, you know, not steal your movie.

[Lola Kirk]

And was he eclipsed by the other reliable white guy, Tom Hanks?

[David Sims]

Yeah, he just doesn't evolve, I guess.

[Lola Kirk]

Who's on reliable White Guys?

[Griffin Newman]

I know it's kind of still Tom Hanks.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah, it is still.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm like, I don't think that. Who's the young Tom Hanks?

[David Sims]

Brad, of course. He's always playing relatable characters.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that that's called John Gun Buffist. High school science teachers or whatever.

[David Sims]

I don't know. I don't know who are relatable. I mean, I think about Adam Scott and Severance, a show that I love that I'm thinking about right now because it's. There's a new season of it where he kind of exists in that world. Right. Because he's being picked for that role.

[Griffin Newman]

I have the answer. But he old.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

Who?

[Griffin Newman]

It's Paul Rudd.

[David Sims]

Still.

[Lola Kirk]

It is still Paul Rudd kind of.

[David Sims]

But he is actually.

[Lola Kirk]

But who's young Paul Rudd?

[David Sims]

That's her question. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

It's a fair question. You know what I'm saying? Like, obviously Paul Rudd launches with Clueless. We'll talk about that in a couple weeks. But then it kind of takes another like 15 years for him to become a full on movie star. So he basically at.

[Lola Kirk]

What is it? What is it?

[Griffin Newman]

What? What is his movie star? Store.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

My God, I'm so happy. Oh, my God.

[Lola Kirk]

There's a birthday party in here for me. Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, I just want to make clear that was an actual pizza order and not you hiring an actor to deliver a pizza because you've done that version of things, too.

[Lola Kirk]

That's cool, too. Wait, I have to pee again.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I'm going to pee at. After you.

[David Sims]

24 chefs.

[Ben Hosley]

24 culinary showdowns for 24 hours straight.

[David Sims]

Which chef will out cook, outpace, outlast the competition? No chef escapes the clock.

[Ben Hosley]

Season premiere 24 and 24.

[David Sims]

Last Chef Standing. Sunday, April 27th at 8.

[Griffin Newman]

See you first on Food Network Stream.

[David Sims]

Next day on Max.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah, she's gonna be somebody.

[Griffin Newman]

There's the one where he does the. The key change and he goes really high at one point.

[David Sims]

Jackson Brown.

[Lola Kirk]

But I can't get her out of my sight.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, thank you for one of the best tasting bits we've had in a long time on this show.

[Lola Kirk]

That was amazing.

[Griffin Newman]

We had to take a break so people didn't hear us chewing.

[Ben Hosley]

You're so welcome.

[Griffin Newman]

All right, so that's the part I was thinking.

[Lola Kirk]

So good.

[David Sims]

We've talked about jjl.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Talked about Phoebe. We've talked about Damone and Rat. Do we have any more? No, we've talked about them. This. It's not.

[Griffin Newman]

I want to. I think this is a movie where you just kind of have to go through moments. And I know because it's hard to. To kind of track even the character thrills.

[Lola Kirk]

We talked about Forest Whitaker. His little brother makes me laugh so hard.

[Griffin Newman]

It's really funny. Is he gonna shit?

[Lola Kirk]

Is he gonna kill us?

[Griffin Newman]

You know what's a really good, very skillful but, like, not overstated thing?

[Lola Kirk]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

The scene where after having sex with Damone, Jennifer Jason Leigh is asking Phoebe Cates about how long.

[David Sims]

Right. And Phoebe's like like 30 to 40 minutes, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, no, I think at first she.

[David Sims]

Says, Phoebe says 20 to 30. And JJL is like, yes.

[Lola Kirk]

I thought you said he took longer.

[David Sims]

30 to 40. And she's like, to 40.

[Griffin Newman]

And he goes, what about Damone?

[David Sims]

He goes like 10 to 20, right?

[Griffin Newman]

And she goes, not bad for a high school boy. What are they doing while having that conversation? Chopping up a big ass pepperoni.

[Lola Kirk]

It's amazing. Also, I was. I always.

[Griffin Newman]

They're just cutting dicks.

[Lola Kirk]

I wanted in high school. Like, I remember that carrot scene so well when she's teaching her how to give the blowjob and then all the boys clap.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And I Like that.

[David Sims]

The reaction is not embarrassing.

[Lola Kirk]

Yes. Me, too. Me, too. It's so. It's so cool. They're so cool.

[Griffin Newman]

To go back to the way that.

[Lola Kirk]

She then bites the carrot at the end is so fucking good. They're just so chill.

[Griffin Newman]

You were saying the bad tagline on the poster, that's just pen at the chair with a surfboard and a textbook and two ladies babes. Right. Average month high, only the rules get busted. The other posters I saw on the Imp Awards site, my favorite post, there's this one that's like a painting of a topless woman from behind on a beach pulling off her bikini bottoms. And, like, Spicoli going like, whoa.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah, that's the one I remember.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And Fast Times is written on her back and what I assume is supposed to be suntan lotion, but looks a little bit like ejaculate. And the tagline is, literally, you loved Porky's, now turn yourself loose on some Fast Times. And then there's this one that's like the very Animal House. Sort of Jack Davis. Davis Mad Magazine. Sort of. Cartoons, Fast cars. Yeah, that's the tagline.

[Lola Kirk]

Hilarious. No, Okay, I get it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just very funny. How weird all the approaches to selling this movie were.

[David Sims]

You know, it's hard to just sell this movie because it's basically just about high schoolers hanging out.

[Griffin Newman]

Outside of knowing Spicoli was money in the bank, that was the one thing they seem to be very clear on.

[David Sims]

They know that. And they know Spicoli is different. Right. You know, his look is kind of different. So that's cool. And it's more modern. Again, it's not a Vint movie. Like. Like Animal House.

[Griffin Newman]

When is Valley Girl?

[David Sims]

Valley Girl's like the year after Valley Girl. Getting Cage off of this.

[Griffin Newman]

Valley Girl. Valley Girl. You would, like, read a syllabus.

[Lola Kirk]

A syllabus? Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, that's another of the few that is directed by a woman.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I be nostalgic about something?

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just remembering that this was a thing in high school that for your birthday you would say, mom, Griffin's going to pick 10 movies and can you buy them for me? Do you remember that?

[Lola Kirk]

Like, vaguely. That's so sweet.

[David Sims]

Are there any other scenes we want to hit? Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I was thinking we. We pointed out that there's no grownups.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. But only teachers.

[Ben Hosley]

But no, there is another presence of grown ups, and that is the managers of the restaurant.

[David Sims]

Yeah, they're the little Stooges.

[Ben Hosley]

Tools.

[David Sims]

Yes. Because they take it even More seriously, they're like, you know, hey, you know, come on. Was this guy bought.

[Ben Hosley]

Works at Captain Jack, like the manager.

[Griffin Newman]

He makes him wear the uniform.

[David Sims]

Uniform. Him flirting with the girl is so funny with that fucking hat.

[Griffin Newman]

And that is. That is Nancy Wilson. That is Nancy Wilson, who then becomes Cameron Crow's wife. Nancy Wilson from heart. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Anthony Edwards. Pamela Springsteen. Martin Breast is the doctor.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, when they go to the morgue. That's Marty Brest.

[David Sims]

Oh, wow, look. A lot of pretty, handsome cameos. And of course, the great Taylor Negron delivering the piece.

[Lola Kirk]

I mean, who's that?

[David Sims]

He's just a guy who's got a great face.

[Lola Kirk]

Yes, I did recognize him.

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of like a comedian and then a million things in this sized role.

[David Sims]

He's a classic, that guy.

[Griffin Newman]

He's one of those guys where his voice is so funny, his vibe is so funny, and his look is so specific that you can be like, hey, will you show up for three lines? Just hand over a pizza and it will be funny. It is one of my favorite things of all time.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah, like, his vibe in that scene is amazing.

[Griffin Newman]

You can look him up and be like, oh, right, he's that guy in 20 other movies. He passed away way a couple of years ago. I think it is the funniest thing in the world. Do you know the Mulaney Stefan Taylor Negran story?

[David Sims]

But we're not doing that right now. No, Griffin, we're trying to wrap up this episode. No. No. That's a no. People Google it.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm giving a look.

[Lola Kirk]

I'm gonna Google it.

[Griffin Newman]

Lola's curious.

[David Sims]

Lola's gotta go, so you cannot complain later. Griffin, if we didn't talk about something.

[Griffin Newman]

I won't complain later. Here's what I'll say.

[David Sims]

I'm getting a pizza while you do this.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, you're getting a pizza. So I wasn't gonna tell the story, but now I. I have to. I was not going to. I was going to move on. Lola.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Remember the Stefan Bill Hader Saturday Night Live Weekend Update bit where he was the guy who would list like, this club has everything. No, this really isn't going to work.

[Lola Kirk]

I'm sorry. I. I missed a lot of snl.

[Griffin Newman]

But what am I going to do while you're chewing on pizza?

[David Sims]

Talk about the movie. What do you mean?

[Griffin Newman]

Boy, Ben's true chewing too.

[Lola Kirk]

Everyone's chewing around.

[Griffin Newman]

I know. Lola and I are the only two people trying to chew the fat and have a conversation.

[Lola Kirk]

Jesus Christ.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, okay.

[Ben Hosley]

Everyone dances so well at the school.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh my God, there's one. I think it's Forest Whitaker's character is dancing like amazing.

[Ben Hosley]

He is killing it. They're all so good in a way where I'm almost like. That is the one thing that's not authentic to high school. No, my. At least my school is not so.

[David Sims]

Too good I think in that kind of movie way of like they had.

[Lola Kirk]

To have some elements of cinema, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's the other thing with Forest Whitaker. He. When he has this sort of, I guess, post drama school, second wave, earnest start of his career, he's like bulked up a lot, right. And then he's like increasingly a bigger and bigger guy. And then I feel like after Last King of Scotland, he slims way down.

[David Sims]

This you get trimmer. It's true.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the one movie where he's just fucking like an absolute Eunice, right? Because he's such a tall guy. But now he's gotten so slim that you don't think about it in the same way where in this it's like, oh, he's a fucking quarterback.

[David Sims]

I do think, well, he's not a quarterback.

[Griffin Newman]

What position is he?

[David Sims]

It seems like he's a tackle. He's. Because he's like a defense.

[Griffin Newman]

Frankly, I wouldn't. You have to tell me.

[David Sims]

Football'S illegal there.

[Griffin Newman]

I just like that anytime David tries to mock me for going to that school.

[David Sims]

Are you kidding me?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm like, do you married into it?

[Lola Kirk]

I love married into it.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't like having gone there either.

[David Sims]

Oh, whatever. You went. You didn't get to pick.

[Griffin Newman]

I didn't get the pick.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

What do you mean? It was an amazing school. We were so lucky.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Oh God, mom wouldn't let me go cuz my dad said I was going to end up dancing on top of Taxi Cats.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay, I know we don't have a lot of time, but I'm just interested. What was everybody's job in high school? I'll share mine.

[Griffin Newman]

First.

[Ben Hosley]

I was a stock boy at a like a local market.

[David Sims]

So my, my major, like honestly how I made my money was as a babysitter. I was a really good babysitter.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, I could see that. You seem like you would have been a trustworthy kid and.

[David Sims]

Well, not just that. I was. I was always just given boys, right. Like the parents were. They were just like, I don't know, these boys, they're climbing up the walls. Like, I need to get out of that. Like I was, I was good because I knew how to chill out. Like nine year Old boys, which is. You played video games all day. Obviously. It's not like I was like enriching these kids lives, but I was also a receptionist at a doctor's office, which is crazy to think about for like two summers in a row, which is crazy to think about because, like, I was like, handling medical records or whatever. I mean, my job was just basically like making appointments and being like, okay, like, I had the perfect. He's ready for you.

[Ben Hosley]

For being a stoner, I would show up late all the time and just like, restock, melt, clack.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Putting cans on shelves.

[Ben Hosley]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

I feel like I didn't have a good job for being a stoner because I was. I worked with children as well.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. That's what I did.

[Lola Kirk]

I worked at a daycare center in Chinatown.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

With mostly only kids that spoke Chinese and me.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. It was based, like, daycare.

[Lola Kirk]

No, but stuff. Yeah, they. But I mean, there's different dialects, obviously, and some of the kids didn't even speak the same language.

[Griffin Newman]

I've tried to explain this to people. It is. It is tough getting high school jobs when you grow up in New York City because everyone wants jobs in New York City so badly.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know that things that are sort of like good entry level jobs for teenagers are. Starbucks are like, competitive here.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So you do have to kind of find like weird sideways under the table things.

[Lola Kirk]

But it was. I loved that job. It was my favorite job I've ever had.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

More than any acting job.

[Griffin Newman]

That is. That is the.

[David Sims]

What the.

[Griffin Newman]

I have always.

[Lola Kirk]

Kidding.

[Griffin Newman]

The only other thing I think I would be happy doing in my career.

[Lola Kirk]

Is working with kids is be like.

[Griffin Newman]

Being a preschool teacher. Yeah.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah. I worked at the preschool at St. Anne's too.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And then when I dropped out of college, I went and worked there.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh, you literally worked there.

[Griffin Newman]

I literally. Yeah. I mean, I was like floater sub stuff. And they were sort of like, if you want to really do this, you have to go back to school.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And I was like, that sounds like a bump.

[David Sims]

Guys, I'm walking in 15 minutes late to St. Anne's Preschool with a bunch of Blank street coffees.

[Griffin Newman]

I like this bit.

[David Sims]

Bit.

[Griffin Newman]

I got Lola tea.

[Lola Kirk]

He got me tea to help me get through.

[David Sims]

Yes, Lola, before you go, because we can. We can rap without you, but is there anything else you want to say about Fast Time of Ridgemont High?

[Lola Kirk]

I'm just so happy that I got to watch it again. It made me feel so, like, good inside.

[Griffin Newman]

It's really A, a really special movie.

[Lola Kirk]

I read this quote of hers on IMDb trivia where she said, I wanted to make something that if, like a movie that if you woke up inside it, you'd be happy.

[Griffin Newman]

I think she fucking nailed it, by.

[David Sims]

The way, because this movie's also a bummer, but it is nonetheless. The end is. I am really happy when you end.

[Griffin Newman]

The heckerling part of it is there is a very positive spirit to this movie, but if it were artificially happy, it would not create the same warmth if it felt like it was in ignorance of reality. Right. And I think when I think about why these like 80s high school movies are this ultimate comfort food for me, it is that, that they're able to like create the sense of fun and individuality in the music and the clothes and whatever. But the ones I like also have like, they're touching on sadness, you know, and like broken aspects of the human condition. And I think, you know, at John Hughes, the thing that people would say and especially the actors he worked with were like, it's crazy. He, like, there's like a teenager still inside of him. He knows how to write as if it's still so like present and immediate for him. Right. And this movie isn't that in an interesting way. It is like a 22 year old who never kissed, never been kissed his way into a high school and a woman who never had this kind of experience at a high school. And there's like a little bit of remove and it has this level of like adult, precise perspective on these experiences while respecting the characters. Yes, yes. Recognizing what's funny about them and what's silly about them, but also what's like sad about them and, and what's uncomfortable and all of that. I just, it's like a very unique film, Lola.

[David Sims]

Thank you for being with us, Lola.

[Griffin Newman]

Book is called Wild West Village.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The new album is called Trailblazer Sinners coming out.

[Lola Kirk]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

One week ago.

[Lola Kirk]

One week ago. I love you Lola.

[Griffin Newman]

Winter Spring. I love you, Lola.

[Lola Kirk]

Thank you for having me, guys. This was so fun.

[Griffin Newman]

We'll you in eight years. I'm joking.

[David Sims]

Six.

[Griffin Newman]

I, I, I think two. Let's.

[David Sims]

All right. That sounds fine. But you live in Nashville. I mean like Ala's not always here. It's hard. Bye. See you later.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. That was a door slam.

[David Sims]

Bam.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Lola's gone.

[Griffin Newman]

Lola's gone.

[David Sims]

Never to return.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. No, no, let's, let's make this the, the final part of the conversation. Okay. I mean we're talking about the summer job Or. Or the high school job thing. I do think it's what you were saying about like Brad's whole thing being. Taking this so seriously and priding himself on how much he's good at it.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And these guys who are just a couple years older than him and have such an attitude and such a sense of superiority. The final note of the movie is like Brad's great victory being that he gets promoted to manager really quickly. Right? Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, he stops a robbery.

[Griffin Newman]

This movie nails the like, Chiron. What happens to the characters? Shit.

[David Sims]

I mean, the Chiron. Those are so funny. We should also say Brad. Brad is the. The. The closest thing the movie to a hero. He steps up for his sister in this like non obnoxious way.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just a sweet with her. Him dropping her off at bowling. He's immediately sort of like bowling with friends. He drops her off. He gets stuck in like an intersection.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He notices catches in the rear view window.

[David Sims]

And he waits for her. It's not like he barges upstairs.

[Griffin Newman]

He waits for her.

[David Sims]

He just waits outside patiently. And he's just super chill of about it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So. Yeah. But then, of course, yeah. James Russo. We should shout out fellow Beverly Hills cop trying to stick up the 711 or whatever it is. Oh, yeah. Who's really funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's. He's Axel's partner at the beginning of the movie. But I just. I love the sort of efficiency of like how quickly he comes in, spray paints the camera and takes the gun out. Like this guy moves so fast that even though he's not wearing a mask or anything, it's like disorienting of. You don't have. Have time to respond. Which is what he's counting on. Right.

[David Sims]

I also think it's important that the most put together and least put together characters kind of unite at the end who don't have anything to do with each other. Spicoli and Brad. To solve this problem.

[Griffin Newman]

There's an incredible restraint of this movie not forcing the characters together in obvious overlap ways. And you'll have Jennifer Jason Leigh being in Spicoli's class, but it's not like it's building to any specific interaction actions with them. You know, like the plot lines don't really cross over that much.

[David Sims]

Not really. Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

Which makes it fun when at the end it's like, oh, right, these two guys haven't interacted.

[David Sims]

I also think we should shout out that rat takes Stacy to some sort of German. I can't believe we talk about this October Fest ass. You know, Mall store. Like the nastiest farts are going to be coming out of you on this date. You're eating like bratwurst or whatever.

[Ben Hosley]

There's sauerkraut.

[Griffin Newman]

Not only that, Jennifer Jason Lee is a tiny woman.

[David Sims]

She's tiny.

[Griffin Newman]

They drink like Rat is a tiny person.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

They're also sitting in the biggest chairs of all time.

[David Sims]

So funny. It's like the least good vibe of.

[Griffin Newman]

Them in like the most grown up, stodgy, bad smelling like angry servers place sitting in these chairs that look like they're swallowing them. And he realizes he doesn't have his wallet on him. And she does like a full kind of like Mel Brooks music physical sting. Like he's in a thriller suddenly. And he keeps just ordering more and more Cokes to delay to get Damone to drop off the wallet. Which of course is the fatal move that him. But what really him is no, I.

[David Sims]

I'm scared to make a move. That's.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the mistake. Yes.

[David Sims]

Yeah. He's just, he's just not ready, man. They just gotta kind of circle around.

[Griffin Newman]

But that sequence better. Funny.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Damone gets busted for scalping Ozzie Osborne tickets. Mr. Vargas switches back to coffee. Linda, of course, starts dating her professor in college. Rat and Stacy haven't gone all the way yet.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Spicoli saves Brook Shields and then spends money.

[David Sims]

All the while Van Halen to play his birthday party. Sounds like a good party.

[Griffin Newman]

But Brad gets promoted to being the manager of this gas station. And a thing I really like. If you watch that, it is very clear that they didn't get enough footage.

[David Sims]

Huh.

[Griffin Newman]

And so the, the footage that is running over or underneath the chiron for Brad where he's standing above the body with the gun and he, it looks like he keeps readjusting is the same clip played backwards and forwards like three times. If you notice he starts to do weird like movements. He's, he's, he's going Black Lodge.

[Ben Hosley]

I was just going to say we should shout out. The football scene is really funny.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't give a shit about football.

[David Sims]

I just think.

[Ben Hosley]

I just think it's like really funny physical comedy. And I, and I think she does a really good job with like just making it so over the top.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's what's crazy. Like it's in the dossier. But that she grew up loving Mad magazine. That like that's her sensibility, right?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of like comedic exaggeration. And we'll totally get that in Johnny Dangerously and talk about that and even Clueless is like a much more stylized, heightened movie. Movie. Right. And you know that it was another thing JJ put in the dossier. But that when she was growing up, she loved movies. She was like, what's my career path? I only know of one female director. And she would have to point to her parents and be like, I guess I want to do what Elaine May does. Because that was the only person she could sort of point at as an aspiration. And Elaine May's movies are like a lot more heightened. You know, I. I just think this movie being a. Able to do both and cut between them so quickly and so much of this movie will play out in montage, you know, and we'll have these sort of sequences beyond even our primary characters, just catching like five second glimpses of random kids or featured background actors or people who have like under five roles. And it's just sort of like, here's what everyone's doing in class, here's what everyone's doing at the mall. Here's what everyone's doing at the dance. And they feel like Mad magazine, like Sergio Argones, like weird marginal drawings. And then she can like have a scene that has real emotion in it and neither one is like, fighting against the other. And I. I struggle to think of other movies that are good at holding both tones at their most extreme ends and not, as you're saying, David, sort of doing a movie that is like funny and goofy for the first 45 minutes. And then she gets an abortion. It becomes really serious for 30 minutes.

[David Sims]

Her mistakes come back to haunt her.

[Griffin Newman]

And then suddenly there's a stretch with. With zero jokes. Like, I just kind of can't believe how beautifully she lets this film be everything. Which also feels reflective of like being a teenager.

[Ben Hosley]

It captures the energy of time and.

[Griffin Newman]

The wild emotional swings. Yeah, yeah. Now you saying does it kind of her that she's got a movie this good out of the gates, Tough.

[David Sims]

Tough to follow it up.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it does help her that the movie is a bit of a slow burn that grows. So it's not like it lands with such an impact that she's stuck under the shadow forever. No, I think weirdly, over time it becomes a bigger sort of shadow for her.

[David Sims]

I mean, like, she doesn't. I mean, Johnny Dangerously, her next film, is. Is not very successful.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

And then she makes European Vacation, which is successful, but is not exactly her movie or her success really.

[Griffin Newman]

But she's sort of.

[David Sims]

So it takes to. Look who's talking for her to really have like, sort of Like a major success, which obviously gets a huge success.

[Griffin Newman]

But look who's Talking is like a revenge movie. Like, look who's Talking is a Raiders of the Lost Ark. Like, I need to make something that's undeniable, that's a franchise, that's a blockbuster. You know, it was a very strategic move for her, but that's the first one that she's, like, fully creating and conceptualizing herself. Yeah, it's an interesting career that I'm very excited to talk about. This is. This is a director that we've been threatening to do for so long.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, she's been on our list from the beginning.

[Griffin Newman]

Decade of Dreams.

[David Sims]

So this film came out August 13, 1982. So it's like a pretty quiet, trashy time. Like, Late Summer back then is not a real blockbuster time, as you'll see from what's in the box office.

[Griffin Newman]

And as you said, it's like this movie is conceived of as, like, maybe this is our new Animal House or American Graffiti or whatever. Then they get scared. They suppress it, and then it sort of catches on. So then they try to catch up with the demand, but they never quite did.

[David Sims]

Okay, Nail it, I think. 22 mil. Yes, something like that. It's opening number seven on 500 screens.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

So number one at the box office is also new this week. It's the big hit of the week, and it is a horror sequel.

[Griffin Newman]

Hmm. Is it a Halloween?

[David Sims]

Nope.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it a Jason Voorhees?

[David Sims]

Yes, it is a Friday the 13th.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it two? No, it's three already.

[David Sims]

Friday the 13th, part three.

[Griffin Newman]

So it was 80, 81, 82. Three consecutive.

[David Sims]

They made them every year.

[Griffin Newman]

They were on a paranormal schedule.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, their movies were made quickly, and obviously the whole point was decided. But then how's three?

[Griffin Newman]

Three is the first hockey mask one, right?

[David Sims]

Yes, three is good. It is not my favorite, but it.

[Griffin Newman]

Is the one that kind of codifies the whole Jason thing in the way.

[David Sims]

I guess so. I mean, two is pretty. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But two is sack head and overalls.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Three is also the 3D one. So in whatever, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah, because that was hot back then. And then four, the Final Chapter. Sure is the one with Crispin Glover that I think is. Is really good and is kind of.

[Griffin Newman]

I hope that they ended it there and never made any other one.

[Lola Kirk]

Right.

[David Sims]

And then five is really bad. And.

[Griffin Newman]

What do you mean? The last one was the Final Chapter.

[David Sims]

And then six rocks. Six is my favorite.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm confused. That's too past The Final Chapter yet. But you're saying keep doing it. The math ain't math.

[David Sims]

The math ain't math. So that's number one at the box office. Teens are going to see that. Obviously. Number two at the box office. Since been in the box office for 10 weeks. It's made $200 million and it's going to be the most financially successful film ever made.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it a film we have covered recently on the show? It is called ET The Extra Terrestrial.

[David Sims]

That's right. Obviously the biggest hit of 1982. Number three.

[Griffin Newman]

Obviously up until that point, the biggest hit of all of movies.

[David Sims]

Number three is. Is a. Another giant hit of the year. I already mentioned it. A big romantic drama.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a big. It's An Officer and a Gentleman. David is an offer. Okay, Slow response time.

[David Sims]

Sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

That was a real kind of throwback.

[David Sims]

And I'm David, an Officer and a Gentleman with Everwinger and Richard Gear.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

Jesus.

[David Sims]

What?

[Ben Hosley]

Just noticing that there's just a knife on the desk.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, here's. Here's a little peek behind the curtain in terms of a weird record order. That was a. The knife that get used to open the box of Kit Fisto presents.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Which for the listener will have been three months ago, but in our reality was three days ago.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And that just Lola was. Was playing with the knife.

[David Sims]

Number four at the box office is we.

[Griffin Newman]

We run a proper business.

[David Sims]

Musical comedy with big stars.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a musical comedy with big stars in 1982.

[David Sims]

Yes, it is. I think actually a solid hit.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a solid hit.

[David Sims]

Um, it gets one Oscar nomination for supporting actor.

[Lola Kirk]

Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a Best Little Whorehouse in Texas.

[David Sims]

The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas. Starring Burt Reynolds and Dominic Dolly Parton.

[Griffin Newman]

But Academy Award nominated Charles during performance. I've never seen that film neither. I often invoke Charles Durning as one of my 10 favorite actors of all time.

[David Sims]

Great actor.

[Griffin Newman]

I have seen his number in that. Probably 20.

[David Sims]

He's the governor.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And he does. What's. Is his number called? Sideshow or Soft Shoe?

[David Sims]

His number is called the Sidestep.

[Griffin Newman]

The Sidestep step. Thank you.

[David Sims]

Number five at the box office is a film that was released in 1977.

[Griffin Newman]

Using weasel words as a politician to spin the narrative.

[David Sims]

They never do that.

[Griffin Newman]

But the thing is he starts literally doing a little sidestep, even though he's talking about it metaphorically. I'm sorry, Go on, David.

[David Sims]

It's a film that came out in 1977. It's been re. Released Clearly.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I think it is called Star Wars.

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

The film Star Wars. You've also got Fast Times version One High. Of course, you've got the World According to Garp.

[Griffin Newman]

Uhhuh.

[David Sims]

You've got a action comedy with Cheech and Chong called Things are Tough all over, which is, I guess not a.

[Griffin Newman]

Proper Cheech and Chong mov. I think that's a.

[David Sims]

It is. I think it's the fourth one.

[Griffin Newman]

Are you sure about that?

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I, I, my, I feel like I might be very wrong about this. I've never seen the film. My thought was always that that was more of a Cheech vehicle that Chong is in. That was them starting to figure out what the post duo career.

[David Sims]

I guess so. But is about. Cheech and Chong take a cross country chip.

[Griffin Newman]

So then maybe I'm wrong.

[David Sims]

I don't know. I think you're thinking of something else. I am maybe, but I'm not sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

But you know, they also. Because it's in between nice dreams and still smoking.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't know. Okay, you've got Night Shift.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Which is the Michael Keaton film, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. One of the greatest debut performances in film history.

[David Sims]

Damn Ron Howard film, obviously.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And you've got Rocky 3.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, I know we say this very often when we play this game. Pretty good eatin at the cineplexes.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I would agree. There's a good spread.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean there are a couple undisputed classics, but I'm also just like. They're big cultural movies, they're popular hits. There's a lot of big things coexisting.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

So you're saying they ate.

[Griffin Newman]

They ate.

[David Sims]

But you've got two part threes season here. There's this, there's a little bit of a. Things are getting a little samey maybe. I don't know. But yeah. Yeah. You got a musical, you got a big grown up drama.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean it's August for August. This is not bad for August.

[Griffin Newman]

This is incredible.

[David Sims]

So that's what's happened there. And that's it.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. That's what happened there. And that's it.

[David Sims]

I think that's. That's it.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I think that's what happened in there. And that's it. Excited to go on this hiker journey?

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. It's gonna be fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Have neither of you seen Johnny Dangerously?

[David Sims]

No, no. Why would I have seen that? Yeah, it's like not available.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

How am I gonna see it?

[Griffin Newman]

We'll find A way, I'll say this. I mean, we're recording this some months in advance. We're like, can we convince someone else to make Johnny Dangerously more viewable by the time this comes out?

[Ben Hosley]

We're working on it.

[Griffin Newman]

We're working on it. But in the meantime, might be a great time to sign up for ExpressVPN.

[David Sims]

Is it available on.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like I watched it on, like Disney plus Croatia or something a couple months ago when I was doing my Keaton watch through. And if you remember, In a past ExpressVPN ad read, When I hinted that I had to use it to watch an upcoming director's movies, that was. That was it. I'll say this. You know, I have my. And part of it's a personal challenge. I want to get physical copies of all the movies of whatever the miniseries is. This has been the most difficult one of any director we've ever covered.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Fast Times, Criterion. Johnny Dangerously. This is a straight up bootleg. It's a very good bootleg. It's a straight up bootleg. European Vacation weirdly, seems to be out of print as a solo. And I wanted the solo rather than it as a box set or a double feature.

[David Sims]

That one, I assume is available on, like, itunes or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the who's Talking disc is out of print. There's no Blu Ray for the two sequels. Clueless is okay. Loser. I had to import from Australia. It might be the single most expensive Blu Ray I've ever purchased. And then I believe I could never be your woman came from Denmark.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Those are the only countries, those two.

[David Sims]

I mean, all these things. All the movies he just said, except for Johnny Dangerously are streamable for, you know, itunes or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

But.

[David Sims]

So I will probably just be doing that. I guess I'm going to buy this Johnny Dangerously dvd. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll send you the link.

[David Sims]

Oh, to the bootleg. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you to Lola for being here.

[David Sims]

Yes. Thank you, Lola.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Thank you to all our future guests.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, well, hey, a big thank you to all of you and ask. Let's throw it back to the past guests. It's been a decade of dreams. We couldn't have done it without them. Tune next week for Johnny Dangerously.

[David Sims]

Next week is Johnny Dangerously. And then, yeah, European Vacation. Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

And on Patreon at this point, we are doing Superman. Is that correct?

[David Sims]

Oh, God.

[Griffin Newman]

We're looking up in the sky.

[David Sims]

So true. That we are doing.

[Griffin Newman]

So true.

[David Sims]

Star Trek finished, I think in. Yeah, we're about to start Superman.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

About to Start it.

[Griffin Newman]

We're about to start it. We're doing Superman in just a couple days.

[David Sims]

We'll be covering the film Richard Donner's Superman. Have you heard of this guy, man.

[Griffin Newman]

Of Steel, which we voted for a long time.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Movies we'll discuss.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And then it will lead straight into Superman Returns, a movie we love, made by entirely unproblematic people. And then leading straight into a new released episode on the James gunn Superman parenthetical 2025 fun series.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

Excited to do it. Everyone's happy.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm excited to go back to eating pizza.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you all for listening.

[Ben Hosley]

You know what, though? I want to do this.

[Griffin Newman]

Man's holding up a finger.

[Ben Hosley]

We're going to actually, at the end of the episode, include a clip.

[Griffin Newman]

What?

[Ben Hosley]

To a section of our Superman episode.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, bold new idea.

[Ben Hosley]

Just give a little sample, a little taste of what's available on the Patreon.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting. We haven't recorded that episode yet. What if it's. It sucks? What if it's just like, what's going on?

[David Sims]

Who's that? Why is the. Why did the. The movie. The picture. We don't know what editing is. The picture is different. It was a picture of one guy, and now it's a picture of another guy.

[Ben Hosley]

This flies.

[Griffin Newman]

What if we respond to Chris for re flying like it's the train coming into the.

[David Sims]

I think it should be more idiotic than that guy's coming towards me. They do like a closeup of his head, and we're like, his head got cut off. It's his only his head.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got so big.

[David Sims]

His head's getting so big. Where'd his head go? Where's her body? Oh, my God. Should I buy the Arrow Limited the cell disc?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, boy.

[David Sims]

I don't know, man.

[Griffin Newman]

Barnes Noble sale going on right now. I've been trying to get the Arrow companies bastard set, but it's sold out everywhere. And so I keep checking to see which stores have it in stock for pickup because they won't do ship to home, right? What? This is what we're talking about with Bilga of like, some movie you think is okay gets a lovingly restored.

[David Sims]

I think the Cell's pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but you like that someone put in the time.

[David Sims]

I. I liked the Cell more than critics. And now I probably like it less than whoever's in charge of culture. Yes, it's become canonical or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Remember we were trying to end this episode?

[David Sims]

We're done.

[Griffin Newman]

No, we're not done. I haven't done the thing to end the episode yet. We went on a couple side tions, and as always, I'm going to put the knife away.

[David Sims]

Williams score here is so good. This overture.

[Griffin Newman]

Fortress of Solitude.

[David Sims]

No, this is Krypton.

[Griffin Newman]

Griffin.

[David Sims]

Jesus Christ. You need to leave this podcast calling that the Fortress of Solitude, Dude, I'm sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

God, this is Krypton.

[David Sims]

I'm so mad. No, this is Krypton.

[Griffin Newman]

It's called Krypton. Huh? Marlon Brando always says Krypton.

[David Sims]

So, Ben, Superman is from a planet called Krypton. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Marlon Brando calls it Krypton.

[David Sims]

And they decide in their infinite wisdom that there should be a big prologue, you know, explaining the destruction of Krypton and where Superman came from. And they'll cast Big Star to play Superman's dad, Jor L. And they paid him $3.7 million and 11% of the box office. Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[David Sims]

So he made $19 million in 1978.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

For what is 10 minutes of screen time or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I think it still is maybe the most someone's been paid relative to time on screen.

[David Sims]

Right? Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

If you break down how much he was paid, like, per second, per minute.

[David Sims]

Famously. I love this scene so much.

[Griffin Newman]

So good.

[David Sims]

So Brando famously, of course, said that, why don't we have my character be a suitcase or a talking bagel? And they instead were like, how about we have a B, Marlon Brando?

[Griffin Newman]

How about if we're paying you $3.7 million, you need to show up on set.

[David Sims]

Cue cards are all over the set. Because he refused to memorize his dialogue.

[Griffin Newman]

His whole performance is him looking off to the middle distance in different directions or different. Different cue cards are.

[David Sims]

And nonetheless, he certainly's really good in this movie. It's kind of an iconic performance. This is a year before Apocalypse now, and it's sort of like it's the tail end of his post Godfather boom with, like, Last Tango in Paris and stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Where it's like, he's a really big actor again. And Apocalypse now is where fat Brando becomes, like, what Brando is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, Right.

[David Sims]

Like uncontrollable, controllable, bizarre, out of shape. This is the last time you can feel him kind of like this is kind of coming.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct. This is lazy, arrogant Brando still giving you results. And within four years, you're just like, I don't know what to do with this footage. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty. Salinas and our associate producers, AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithee, research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistance is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.