Blank Check with Griffin & David

"Hail, Caesar!" with Shirley Li

Release Date: November 9, 2025
Guests: Shirley Li (The Atlantic)

Episode Overview

This episode, part of the Blank Check miniseries on the Coen Brothers, is devoted to “Hail, Caesar!” (2016). Hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims are joined by recurring guest and fan favorite Shirley Li to dissect, deconstruct, and celebrate the Coens’ homage to—and critique of—classical Hollywood. With their trademark blend of deep-dive cinephilia and warm, chaotic banter, they explore the film’s themes of art versus industry, faith and meaning in show business, the making and breaking of movie stars, and the Coen Brothers’ own late-career perspective.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Meaning of “Hail, Caesar!” as a Coen Brothers' Film (~08:00)

• The group contextualizes "Hail, Caesar!" as potentially the last "true" Coens collaboration before Ethan stepped away (“this does sort of feel like a retirement film in an odd way, even though it certainly didn’t seem like it at the time.” — Griffin, 08:53).
• Themes of burnout, questioning the worth of making art, and how the work of movies stacks up against “serious” work like, say, building bombs at Lockheed Martin.
• Shirley notes: “It all works itself out. It does, but does it without someone caring about it? That’s...the X-factor.” (~28:10)
• David links it to the recurring Coens motif: “So much of the magic that has worked in this movie is sort of serendipitous... sort of ‘Burn After Reading’-adjacent in a way.” (27:44)

2. Hollywood Machinery—Insiders, Fixers, and Faith (77:28, 79:02)

• Central discussion of Eddie Mannix (Josh Brolin), both the historical fixer and the fictionalized version. The contrast between Hollywood problem-solving and the “serious” work offered by Lockheed.
• The system’s moral ambiguity: “The only reason you do it is if there’s nothing else you can do.” — Griffin (143:11)
• The ‘show folk’ identity: Even Mannix, the most businesslike, is moved by creative problem-solving and movie-making magic, as seen in the editing-room scene with Frances McDormand.
• Contrast between cynical and romantic attitudes toward movies ("Weirdly, this movie is simultaneously more cynical and more romantic than Barton Fink..." — Griffin, 91:54).

3. Parody and Tribute: The Films Within a Film (23:18, 24:18)

• Lively breakdown of the various fictional movies inside “Hail, Caesar!”: Lazy Old Moon, No Dames, Jonah’s Daughter, and the title biblical epic.
• Griffin is particularly fixated on the grace and complexity of the “No Dames” tap number (“every time I watch that, it is like nirvana for me,” 22:58) and how the set’s moving pieces are as much movie magic as the choreography (103:00).
• The gang imagines which of the fake movies they’d most like to watch (21:49). “I do...want to know, like, how the relationships evolve in Lazy Old Moon,” muses Shirley.

4. Casting & Star Power: Tatum, Ehrenreich, and the System (48:44, 54:03)

• A deep dive into Channing Tatum’s career, work ethic (“He learned 10 years of tap in three months” — David quoting the choreographer, 62:00), and the odd tapering of his superstardom despite his seemingly boundless charisma and talent (“He was on a real...a fucking masterpiece. But he was on such a hot run.” — Griffin, 51:34).
• Alden Ehrenreich as Hobie Doyle—discovered by Spielberg, loaded with DiCaprio-like expectations, and delivering a performance the hosts call “one of the best movie performances of the decade” (~57:02). The group laments the public's harsh response to Ehrenreich after Solo.
• Parallel between real star-making and “Hail, Caesar!”’s meta-commentary on the studio system’s manufacturing of stars.

5. Meticulous Craft: Deakins, Technicolor, and Old Hollywood Style (60:53)

• Praise for Roger Deakins’s cinematography: “This is one of the only modern movies I can think of that actually somehow captures Technicolor feelings. Like, three-strip, you know...” — Griffin (61:06).
• Admiration for how the Coens (and Deakins) play with classic genres and recreate the magic—and chaos—of old Hollywood.

6. The Writers' Room: The Future, Communism & Satire (82:24, 139:03)

• Extended examination of the Marxist writers’ subplot: a simultaneously silly and pointed jab at the labor politics and radical undercurrent of Hollywood in the 1950s.
• “For how much they’re espousing serious political opinion, the actual means to an end for them is they would like it if they had nice houses too.” — Griffin (82:54)
• The submarine scene (139:03): The episode relishes the absurdity and theatricality of the Communist writers handing off a suitcase to a Russian sub, poking fun at both period Hollywood and political naiveté.

7. The Small Parts: Scene-Stealing Supporting Players (86:11, 87:16, 99:03)

• Celebration of the ensemble: Tilda Swinton as the twin gossip columnists (“Every time either of her characters says ‘Eddie’, I transcend to a higher plane of existence.” — Griffin, 87:28), Scarlett Johansson as a Brooklyn-accented bathing beauty, Frances McDormand as the editor, Wayne Knight as the sus extra, and Jonah Hill’s bail bondsman (who, Griffin notes, “is on screen for 90 seconds. They use every line of dialogue he has in the trailer...” 89:08).
• Discussion of “Would that it were so simple?” with Ralph Fiennes and Alden Ehrenreich (“one of the funniest scenes in the history” — Griffin, 130:49).

8. Hollywood Nostalgia, Real Locations, and LA Lore (134:03, 134:36)

• Shirley celebrates the film’s use of real LA locations, drawing connections to beloved spots like Good Luck Bar and Formosa Café.
• Odes to “the aesthetic pleasures of this movie, the tuning of every single performance...” — Griffin (138:28).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On The Nature of Hollywood (Faith & Industry)

• Griffin, 08:53: “This does sort of feel like a retirement film in an odd way... it certainly didn’t seem like it at the time.”
• Shirley, 28:10: “It all works itself out. It does, but does it without someone caring about it? That’s...the X-factor.”

On Channing Tatum’s No Dames Sequence

• Griffin, 22:58: “Every time I watch that, it is like nirvana for me...I am most interested in the idea of watching 90 minutes of lazy Old Moon.”
• Shirley, 51:01: “I want to give Channing Tatum a medal. I want to give him so many medals.”

On the Romantic vs Cynical Coens

• Griffin, 91:54: “Weirdly, this movie is simultaneously more cynical and more romantic than Barton Fink...”
• David, 92:08: “It is largely cynical, but then at the end of the day, it is about the system working.”

On Hobie Doyle and the Making of Movie Stars

• Griffin, 57:02: “Like, one of the best movie performances of the decade, in my opinion...people were so rude to him after Solo...I want to be like, watch Hail Caesar, you ingrates.”
• Shirley, 67:16: “There will always be headlines about [Channing] because he has one project or another...his personal life is part of his professional life.”

On the Religious Consultants Scene

• David, 98:19: “My favorite scene in Hail, Caesar! is the scene where he talks to the religious leaders about the divine presence... it's this perfect parody of moviemaking especially right at that time...We need to calibrate our message so it appeals to everyone without offending anyone.”

On the Making of Movies vs. Serious Work

• Shirley, 142:06: “For me, I was kind of like, yeah, this movie is about...whether to have passion for the job that you do? And is it—how much do you sacrifice in order to feel fulfilled...?”
• Griffin, 143:11: “So much of it is so unglamorous, so annoying, so soul crushing that the only reason you do it is if there’s just nothing else you can do...”

On Supporting Cast & Poster Gags

• Griffin, 89:08: “[Jonah Hill] is on screen for 90 seconds. They use every line of dialogue he has in the trailer. They put him all over the fucking trailer because he was hot stuff...I have often contested that this is the smallest role to receive a designated character poster...”

Noteworthy Segments & Timestamps

• Coen Brothers’ Late-Career Perspective & Burnout: 08:53–10:59
• The "Hail, Caesar!" Miniseries Context/Intro: 07:01–08:28
• No Dames Discussion/Channing Tatum: 22:58–24:39, 62:00 (his tap training)
• Making & Fate of Movie Stars (Tatum/Ehrenreich): 48:44–67:16
• Religious Consultants Scene: 98:19–101:15
• Fake Movies-in-Movie Game: 21:43–23:19
• Jonah Hill Poster Bit: 89:08–89:32
• “Would that it were so simple?” Scene: 130:49–131:53
• Discussion of Classic LA Bars & Locations: 134:03–134:36
• Deep Coen Ensemble Appreciation: 108:31–110:18

Listener Takeaways

• Appreciation for Craft: Even amidst their comic chaos, the Coens are meticulously attentive to both cinematic history and the nuts-and-bolts labor that makes movie magic possible.
• Understanding Mixed Feelings: “Hail, Caesar!” is both a loving tribute and a wary satire of the studio system—the duo finds beauty, frustration, and transcendence in the act of making art.
• Meta-Take on Stardom: The cast and their real-life trajectories (Tatum, Ehrenreich) refract the film’s themes about the constructed—and precarious—nature of showbiz success.
• Enduring Importance of Collaboration: From editors to extras, everyone plays a key role in the resulting “miracles” of moviemaking.
• Classic Blank Check Energy: Tangents abound but almost always loop back to a greater understanding of both the art and business of film.

Final Thought

As Shirley remarks toward the close (142:38):
“...what I love about it is that the Coens kind of push you to see it as more optimistic...they’re reassuring. They’re like Jonah Hill to me.”

This episode is highly recommended for anyone who loves movies, moviemaking, and the inside stories of Hollywood history—whether you’re a Coen Brothers completist or just looking for an entertaining, thoughtful deep-dive.