Honey Don't with Mattie Lubchansky

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David – "Honey Don't" with Mattie Lubchansky (Dec 7, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims are joined by guest Mattie Lubchansky to discuss Honey Don’t, the latest (and final, for now) entry in the Blank Check miniseries on the works of Joel and Ethan Coen—covering both their collaborative and solo projects. The episode lays bare the hosts' and guest's disappointment and frustration with the film, exploring its shortcomings, thematic intent, and place in the larger Coen filmography canon. This in-depth discussion touches on the movie's tonal problems, character work, and its status as a product of Ethan Coen's split creative path with wife/co-writer Tricia Cooke.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Placing "Honey Don't" in the Coen Brothers Canon

• Solo Projects as Series Epilogue: The film is considered a bonus episode for the Coens’ filmography (03:35), with the hosts noting it’s more obligatory than exciting to cover compared to earlier masterpieces:

  "This is our last episode in the Coens' series. It's sort of like an epilogue." (David, 01:35).

• Creative Split: Reflections on Ethan and Joel’s separate career moves, with some joking/longing for a return to their classic partnership.

2. General Reception and Guest Selection

• Critical & Box Office Shrugs: The film's muted reception is emphasized:

  "The last one did poorly and this one did significantly worse... He thought he was suggesting the most ludicrous comedic premise imaginable—if they made a third one!" (Griffin, 06:00).

• Why Invite Mattie? The guest was chosen not as a defender, but as someone able to thoughtfully articulate and wrestle with the film’s issues, instead of just raining negativity (19:44).

3. Tone, Endings, and "The Coen Brothers Magic"

• Why Does It Fail?
  Honey Don’t emulates many Coen tropes but lacks their signature "tone management" and thematic weight:

  "Joel and Ethan together are the kings of an ending that should be unsatisfying... But with this, it’s just making me mad and I cannot find any rhyme or reason or meaning in what they're subverting." (Griffin, 22:02)

• The Ending Problem: The last 20 minutes "undermine everything" the movie has built, with a twist that seems abrupt, unearned, and tonally off (17:41).
• Ineffective Homages: Over-reliance on references to The Long Goodbye and Big Lebowski without new purpose or substance (21:06, 26:48).

4. Comparisons to "Drive-Away Dolls" and the Coen Oeuvre

• Unfavorable to Drive-Away Dolls: Despite initial disappointment in that film, both hosts and guest pointed out that Honey Don’t made them retroactively more appreciative of Drive-Away Dolls’ coherence and intent (16:44, 17:51, 17:10).
• Failure of “Blank Check” Energy: The hosts theorize that the "ramshackle, just go with it" energy that can be charming in some Coen (and solo) projects here feels listless, try-hard, and sometimes mean-spirited (70:37).

5. Script, Dialogue, and the Absence of Spark

• Lack of Distinctive Dialogue:

  "The other thing they also do... is paying homage to stuff in a way that is not tired. That is interesting. That has something to say. And this one is just doing big time, 'Remember that?'" (Matty, 31:25)

• Weak Joke Writing:

  "My body's a temple. You should see it with a Shake Weight. That’s a joke in a Coen Brothers movie?" (Matty, 30:37)

• Perceived Laziness: In both plot and gags, the trio point out missed opportunities or a sort of going-through-the-motions attitude.

6. Themes: Power, Gender, and Sexuality

• Intended Themes: The hosts voice a charitable read that Honey Don’t wants to explore how men hold power over women (46:38) via the protagonist’s navigation of systems of religion, family, and the law—all filtered through the lens of a queer female PI.
• Poor Execution:
  • The film’s villain twist is muddled and regressive, reducing the cathartic or hopeful potential of its gender/sexuality material to “sex-maniac slasher” cliché (49:19).
  • Uncomfortable tonal juxtapositions (intentionally “fun” scenes next to ghastly violence) lack the usual Coen depth or payoff.

7. Performances & Casting

• Margaret Qualley as Honey:
  Collectively, they find her performance both charismatic and a bit empty; “a charisma void,” remarked Matty (37:25), with Griffin musing that the actress has matured but is given little to play.
• Aubrey Plaza:

  "I make a noise about whether I like this actor. Sometimes it hits, sometimes it doesn't." (David, 50:03)
  Plaza works for most of the movie but struggles with the twist; her climactic villain reveal is “unplayable.”

• Chris Evans:
  His over-groomed televangelist (64:01) felt forced, out-of-date, and "too self-manicured" (68:00).
• Charlie Day: A bright spot, his comic-relief cop is “least annoying version” of his schtick (88:56), with the running theme of men missing the point in women's stories.

8. Meta & Making-of Tales

• Script Feels Dated: The hosts suspect the Honey Don’t script sat on a shelf for decades, with only superficial updates (“Covid reference dropped in…”) (65:07, 67:01).
• Direction & Production: Stories from Q&As highlight differences between the two brothers' solo styles—where once the Coens were known for tight, flawless, zero-waste productions, Ethan’s solo effort is loose, inconsistent, and even had to reshoot its opening credits (103:10).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Ending (20:05):

  "I found this movie so deeply frustrating... 75% of it, I'm watching it and going like... approximation of a Coen Brothers movie. Then the last 20 minutes... feel like a shrug and a panic, and it kind of reveals the movie had no idea what it was actually doing up until that point."
  —Griffin (20:05)

• On Tone Management (32:32):

  "There was this quote Ethan has said, over the years, I finally settled on one, which is tone management. That’s kind of their ultimate magic."
  —Griffin (32:32)

• On Missed Potential (40:42):

  "But how much of that is like you go into it knowing that there’s no there there for the character?"
  —Griffin (44:48)

• On Sex and Representation (97:26):

  "I want to show these things on screen in a way that is not the male gaze and that normalizes it. … But I do think the balance is kind of off here."
  —Griffin

• On The Coens’ Future (112:16):

  "Film culture has been lacking from their collaborations... and in that time he has also produced an evening of theater. … Now that we're on the second lark movie, it's not like you don't want to work."
  —Griffin

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Important Segments & Timestamps

00:01–04:40 – Comedic cold open/bizarre riffing on the movie's sexual themes (vaginas vs boobs), miniseries context
16:44–21:06 – Assessing "Drive-Away Dolls" vs "Honey Don’t," initial reactions
20:05–22:50 – Deep frustration with the ending, comparison to Coens’ classic ambiguous conclusions
30:01–32:32 – What’s missing: dialogue, jokes, “attention to detail,” and tonal mastery
46:38–50:03 – Good faith interpretation of movie’s intended themes re: power/gender, why it doesn’t land
64:01–70:46 – Chris Evans character/casting, general discussion of missed jokes and empty satire
88:56–90:17 – Charlie Day’s comic relief cop, function in the movie’s thematic structure
97:26–99:03 – On the film’s sex/romance scenes, attempts at authentic lesbian representation, lack of balance
103:10–104:51 – Opening credits filming debacle, how it contrasts with the Coens’ legendary efficiency
112:16–113:01 – Broader discussion of the Coens’ solo projects and longing for the classic collaboration
121:11–149:13 – Box office game, quick notes on contemporaneous films and moviegoing landscape

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Episode Tone and Color

• The episode is sharply funny but often exasperated, reflecting on how Honey Don’t fails to embody the spark that makes even minor Coen films valuable.
• The hosts and guest balance playful sarcasm, genuine affection for the Coens, and candid frustration/disappointment.

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Final Rankings & Wrap-up

• All agree Drive-Away Dolls is better than Honey Don’t—both as films and as solo Ethan/Tricia Cook efforts.
• Optimism for future solo (or hopefully joint) Coen films persists, but with some skepticism after two underwhelming efforts.

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Links & Guest Plugs

• Simplicity (Mattie Lubchansky’s novel) and her podcasts (“No Gods, No Mayors” and “Temporal Culture War”).
• Ben Hosley (producer) plugs his “Slow Christmas V” album.
• Announcements of next podcast miniseries.

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Summary Verdict

Honey Don’t is a rare Coen-adjacent whiff—imitating the shape of their best work while missing the ideas, emotion, and structural finesse that make their films endure. For fans curious about the limits of the “blank check” principle (and what happens when both the check and the spirit bounce), this episode offers a rich, thorough, and lively post-mortem.

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For More:

• [00:46:38] – Thematic ambitions & critique
• [01:17:41] – Ending’s structural failure
• [01:03:10] – Production anecdote on credits
• [01:12:16] – Coen brothers’ future

Now you don’t have to see Honey Don’t—but if you do, you’ll have company in your disappointment.

Transcript

[Griffin]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect.

[Matty Luchansky]

All you need to know is that.

[Griffin]

The name of the shadow is Blackjack.

She only has two desires and one of them is podcast.

[David]

And what's the actual answer?

[Griffin]

Justice and her.

[David]

And so the idea is that the other desire is sex with women.

[Griffin]

I would say the human vagina.

Episode'S over.

[David]

What a new story is about.

[Matty Luchansky]

Great to be on, guys.

[Griffin]

That's what this movie is about.

[Matty Luchansky]

I'll see you next time, I guess.

[Griffin]

So your letterbox.

[David]

You know what? I'm already pumping the brakes at any statement that's like, that's what this movie.

[Griffin]

Your letterbox log for this movie was the word boobies. And I would push back on that and say this movie is more about vaginas than it is about boobies.

[David]

Has some. Some naked breasts, right?

[Griffin]

You know, that's a very surface reading.

[David]

Chris Evans.

[Griffin]

That's a surface reading. I'm not denying it has naked breasts, but I think it's about vaginas.

[David]

Wow. This is a. The. The most our listeners ship will like crash in the first episode.

[Griffin]

Pointing at the stands. I'm hitting a home run. This is our best episode ever.

[David]

It's like pointing at the stands. You don't even hit a foul ball. You like hit the bat into your face somehow.

[Griffin]

Honey, don't. But blank check do. That's what I'm saying. This is our best episode ever.

[David]

This is our last episode ever.

[Matty Luchansky]

Episode ever.

[Griffin]

It is our last episode ever.

[David]

It's our last episode in the Cohen's series. It's sort of like a. An epilogue.

[Griffin]

We're basically treating the solo films as bonus episodes on main. Right?

[David]

Because they. They. They're sort of a half step in, half step out situation.

[Griffin]

We felt like we had to cover them. We felt like covering them on Patreon kind of wasn't.

[David]

It was gonna be weird. Cause we would have to like space them out. Like in a way that was gonna be odd. Or the other part of it was, I don't know.

[Griffin]

When they win March Madness and we commit to covering them. Honeydont has not come out. You have not even seen it yet.

[David]

No, but we. It was one of those things where like, if we had thought about it for five seconds, we would have been like, oh, right. It is coming out. It was.

[Matty Luchansky]

It just.

[David]

But that's what it was from the rooftops. Like, by the way. Honey, don't.

[Griffin]

But we were like, there's a new release movie that will Come out between when we start doing these episodes and when the series ends. Do you know this was a movie? I do. And standing ovation, they claim, look, everything.

[David]

Gets a standing ovation. And you know, it's.

[Griffin]

Do they count people standing up?

[Matty Luchansky]

Do they have seats in the theater?

[David]

Standing ovation, everyone's standing and holding a bar or whatever. Like no, I mean it's like they, when, when someone says in these ridiculous.

General audience screening and just standing room only three. I like when they're like, oh, I got a five minute, you know, variety tweets at one in the morning like, oh, honey, don't go. I'm like, well, it takes five minutes for everyone to stand up and walk out of the. Are we counting this as. Yeah, standing ovation that people must, must stand to exit.

[Griffin]

Also, the standing ovation used to mean something when it would happen rarely. And now basically if a movie gets a three minute standing ovation, you're like.

[David]

Oh, it's like a D Cinema score, right? Exactly, exactly.

[Griffin]

Episode already out of juice. Listen, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David Griffin.

[David]

I'm David.

[Griffin]

It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers, such as a run of movies from Blood simple to the Ballad of Buster Scruggs, and are given a series of blank checks separately and with their wives to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those check clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. This has been a miniseries on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen together and separately with the aforementioned wives. Today we were talking. Honey don't. Which, yes, is the last in this, this larger six month discussion.

[David]

I guess we'll be, we'll be discussing. What's it called? Jack. Jack of Hearts or whatever the next.

[Griffin]

Joel Spades, I believe.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Next year in theory, Jack of spades. But also Joel takes his time with post production. That might not. It might be a 27 release. Who knows? We will have a new release of a solo Cohen's movie next year. And of course Ethan and Trisha continue to threaten to make Go Beavers.

[David]

I.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay.

[Griffin]

So their riff on a college slasher film.

[Matty Luchansky]

So when I saw this movie.

[Griffin]

You'll never get what the title is implying.

[David]

I don't, I don't understand.

[Griffin]

Is alluding to. You'll never guess it.

[Matty Luchansky]

When I, when I saw Honeydon the film.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

It was at the museum of the moving Image and beautiful Astoria, Queens, New York.

[Griffin]

Congratulations.

[David]

And the images do move.

[Matty Luchansky]

The images do move.

[David]

This film's got that close.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. A lot of People don't know this, but actually movies, it's not actually moving. It's a series of images very close together.

[Griffin]

Moving.

[Matty Luchansky]

Your brain interpolates the motion.

[David]

Right? Persistence of vision.

[Griffin]

And then if people are talking, you call that a talkie.

[Matty Luchansky]

That's right. But I saw it there with a Talk Back with Joel, or, sorry, Ethan and Trisha. And in it, they had said they had not even started writing it yet. And I feel like I almost stood.

[David]

Up and started clapping, like, ever do that?

[Matty Luchansky]

And he mentioned, like, a little bit, like, oh, me and. Me and Joel have been talking a little more. And we're like. Everyone in the theater was like, all right, let's just please keep talking.

[Griffin]

We definitely have a title, though.

The title is subtle.

[David]

I'm asking Joel for notes on. On Beaver Squad or whatever. What's it called?

[Griffin]

Go Beaver, exclamation point.

[David]

And Joel's weirdly not returning my emails. I don't know what's going on.

[Griffin]

Joel's on stage.

[David]

Joel replied, I'm going through a tunnel. But, like, in an email, Fran keeps.

[Matty Luchansky]

Picking up the phone. When.

[Griffin]

I was. I was on the phone with my brother Jamesy, and he was asking me if I had seen this, and I said, yeah. And I was like, telling him my. My problems with it and my frustrations with it. And he was just like, it's just, like, so crazy. And these, like, don't make money, right? Like this. And the last one. And I was like, the last one did poorly and this one did significantly worse. And he just went, how funny would it be if they made a third one? And he thought he was suggesting the most ludicrous comedic premise imaginable.

[David]

Right, right, right, right. And get this. Here's my crazy idea. Yeah.

[Griffin]

And I was like, james, they are actively threatening. And I believe he laughed for 45 seconds straight. Like an outing.

[David]

Like, no. A belly laugher.

[Griffin]

He was like, that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. They're actually gonna keep doing this.

[Matty Luchansky]

That's like a 10 minute standing ovation at cam to get him a lot that long now.

[David]

But is it gonna end up like, what was the final Divergent movie supposed to be called?

[Griffin]

Oh, Divergent Allegiant Part 2 or Divergent.

[David]

Like, where it's kind of like, we're gonna make it. And then they're like, it might be straight to tv. And then they're like, eh, it's not happening. You can read the script if you want. Here it is.

[Griffin]

Like, you know, have fun, especially not having a script yet. And we should say.

[David]

I mean, these scripts don't take long to write.

[Matty Luchansky]

I was gonna. I was gonna actually ask you guys, because I'm. I was gonna say I am a writer of fiction, but I don't write screenplays. What I was gonna ask both of you is, should it take longer than the runtime of a movie to write it? Because I actually know I'm not in the industry.

[David]

Maybe that's. The two of you are the challenge. Sort of whatever. Like a, you know, make a movie in a day challenge.

[Griffin]

It's a 24 hour film festival.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Would it. Would it take chat GPT longer to come up with a Go Beaver script? Would it be like, I actually need a week to really kind of work out.

[Matty Luchansky]

I've actually got act one problems. I gotta start over.

[David]

Just to give you. It was gonna be called Divergent Ascendant.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

Based on the latter half, of course, the book Allegiance. Okay.

[Griffin]

So they were making up a new subtitle. Not doing a part two.

[David]

Yeah. And then it just. It didn't happen. It was going to be from the director of the Age of Adeleine.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Lee Tolan Krieger, who has basically spent 10 years stuck, I say stuck in a gilded cage of Berlanti and Netflix TV show pilots.

[Matty Luchansky]

I have a very, very quick Age of Adeleine anecdote.

[David]

Please give us that anecdote and then we're going to introduce you.

[Griffin]

We have so much to say. I got to do. 10 minutes on lead.

[Matty Luchansky]

Tolan, just very quickly. 10 years ago, me and my beautiful wife Jaya were in Italy. Tumbled ye. That's right. And we were getting dinner at this beautiful place and we started getting chatty with this couple that was next to us, and it was this older Dutch couple and the. And the husband and wife. Because that can. That's how a couple can work sometimes. Sometimes, sometimes not. If honey has her way.

[David]

But.

[Matty Luchansky]

But Honey o'.

[David]

Donohue.

[Matty Luchansky]

Honey. Honey o'. Donoghue.

[Griffin]

Honey o'.

[Matty Luchansky]

Donahue.

[Griffin]

That was a good Charlie Day. I don't know if that was intentional.

[Matty Luchansky]

It was getting there. But the, the husband was a KLM pilot and he was like, I just like to stop at this restaurant, whatever. We start talking to him and they go, oh, our son is an actor. He lives in New York too. And we're like, uh huh, sure. Like, where does he live in the city? They're like, in Union Square. And we're like, what's your son?

[Griffin]

Yeah. Wait a second.

[Matty Luchansky]

And they're like, oh, his name is Michael Huisman.

[David]

Oh, Michael Huisman.

[Matty Luchansky]

Who is that? And they're like, he was on Game of Thrones. I was like, oh, right. He's the hot. Daario Nahari.

[David]

He's the second Daario. That's right after Ed Screen got kicked off.

[Griffin]

And he's an Age of Adol.

[Matty Luchansky]

And then the wife looks at us because it just come out of the thing. And she goes. And he's in Age of Adeline, like, expecting us to be like, wow. Holy. We're just like, oh, yeah. And she's like, with Blake Lively. And we're like, huh.

[Griffin]

David is miming someone. Freaking out. Yeah.

[David]

I've never seen the Age of Adeline, a film that our friend Richard Lawson has always mildly defended. Some people are always kind of like, pretty good, right? Like, Harrison Ford actually giving, like, a committed, emotional performance is like, probably Michael. He's been grown up or something.

[Griffin]

Burston. No, it's. It's Harrison.

[David]

I think I will not accept any kind of. No, David.

[Griffin]

I think Michael Hughes may be Harrison Ford's son. And the whole bit is that she falls in love with him and she previously had fallen in love with Harrison Ford, and he brings her home and Harrison Ford's like, you're the same woman.

[David]

What's going on? Why didn't you age? I haven't been this freaked out since David Blaine was in my kitchen.

[Griffin]

Get off my son.

[Matty Luchansky]

For those.

[David]

Both good jokes.

Just. It's like we hit opposite field, doubles in in either direction.

[Griffin]

We're in sync today. This is what I'm saying. Best episode ever. Like, David and I are just like, we're in the flow. Well, it's been a minute. It's been a minute. Speaking of.

[David]

Although we recorded without you, Ben. Oh, yeah, we went to the zoo.

[Griffin]

But speaking of going to Italy with your lovely wife, our producer, Ben Hasley, just got back from a honeymoon with his beautiful wife in Italy, and he was telling us how surprised he was by how much he enjoyed the experience of driving down the roads in Italy.

[David]

Vroom, vroom.

[Matty Luchansky]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Hasley]

I really had fun with it. He's taking those curves, taking the.

[Griffin]

And I said, but feeling.

[Matty Luchansky]

You were saying, ciao, bella, and putting your hand out the window, doing the little fisting motion.

[Griffin]

And then I said, it shouldn't have come as such a surprise to him with all the hours he's logged playing Mario Kart. He knew what a great experience it was going to be to be a real Italian driving down roads.

[Ben Hasley]

And of course, I had a shell with me.

[Griffin]

You had a shell with me.

[Matty Luchansky]

I will say when we. The same trip that we were in Milan, we got off the plane, we went to our. Where we were staying, and it was above the mechanics garage. And the literal first thing I saw was an Italian guy in red overalls with a mustache.

[David]

Wow. Well, well.

[Matty Luchansky]

And we. And me and Jai just looked at each other like, we're really in Italy, baby.

[Griffin]

And he was like loading banana peels into the front of his car. Yeah.

[Ben Hasley]

Now, I don't want to spend too much time, but I will share that on bearing jeans. It didn't work out.

[David]

Oh, you did. You did text about this.

[Ben Hasley]

Yeah. There was a delivery issue with the. The ceramic vessel.

[Matty Luchansky]

Like an urn.

[Ben Hasley]

Yes.

[Matty Luchansky]

Like you're doing grave goods in ancient sumer.

[Ben Hasley]

Well, what I use is. I use Korean fermenting like vessels.

[Griffin]

Best episode ever.

[Ben Hasley]

And so it didn't end up arriving at my hotel. It wasn't able to do it. I also, though, had separately delivered a collapsible shovel. I didn't take it out of the packaging. I brought it to the airport. Apparently you're not supposed to travel with the collapsible shovel.

[David]

Doesn't shock me.

[Matty Luchansky]

How are you supposed to bury jeans in other countries?

[David]

The shoveler has to stay within the lower 48.

[Griffin]

Well, also, I mean, he respects the rules.

[David]

Yeah. I'm saying.

[Ben Hasley]

So I tried to explain at the Rome airport why I had the shovel. They didn't really get it.

[Griffin]

Ben's lovely wife Nellie sends us a text at 4:06am and it is a video taken from quite far away. You can't hear anything of Ben gesticulating with whatever the equivalent of a TSA agent is. Right at the airport and carbon yeri. And the text is pov. My husband's collapsible travel shovel gets flagged going at the airport in Rome.

[Matty Luchansky]

That's beautiful.

[Griffin]

And let's keep it, man. Ben's response was they threw it out, said I shouldn't have it. I guess this was sent to Marie.

[David]

And I. Rude hope is on your disappear day. Jeans. Apparently that's. I need to bury some jeans.

[Griffin]

Our guest today is a writer who doesn't just have titles. She finishes books. She doesn't just say, we have an idea that I'm holding a finish. You hear this? That's a hardcore.

[David]

That ain't her first book.

[Griffin]

In the land of simplicity. A novel. No, from.

[David]

It's called Simplicity. Right.

That is.

[Matty Luchansky]

That's a dumb affectation of mine that I insisted doing to make it look more like a book for the 19th century. I like that.

[David]

We love that.

[Matty Luchansky]

If you look. The subtitle is like a paragraph long.

[Griffin]

So I should have listened to the meaning of the title and given into the simplicity of just the one word type.

[Matty Luchansky]

It is a gift to be simple.

[Griffin]

From the author of Boys Weekend, another book that you finished, Matty Luchansky.

[David]

The books are also good.

[Griffin]

Friend of the podcast. First time guest, but friend of the podcast. Someone we've both known separately for a very long time.

[David]

Yeah, I suppose that's true.

[Matty Luchansky]

I'm so glad to finally be here on Talk to a I believe. Hell yeah.

[Griffin]

Is she back?

[David]

I thought she was like screaming for her.

[Griffin]

She should be back.

[Matty Luchansky]

I saw she was back the other day and I was like bringing her back.

[David]

Did she endorse so Ran. Is she gonna have Zoran?

[Griffin]

Let's get Sally Hawkins in to bring her back.

[David]

Okay. Okay. So I see the joke there. So I'm told. I remember. I know that she was in the the Hulu Show Chad Powers starring Glen Powers. She's in the an episode of that.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right.

[Griffin]

Where they're comparing notes on being washed up celebrities or some like a meta casting gag.

[David]

So maybe she had herself.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

Had to, you know, to. To come back after her mean coin.

[Griffin]

There was a thing where she appeared at vidcon and like 60% of the audience walked out in protest and complained to the organizers because they were offended by how lewd her material was.

[David]

Oh damn. And I was like she was going.

[Matty Luchansky]

Blue you not the part where she scanned everybody.

[Griffin]

You were not led into this fucking like convention hall.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

At gunpoint. You said, I'm going to sit down and listen to the talk to a girl in conversation.

[David]

It's a fair point. It's kind of a dead dove do naughty. I don't know what you're expecting. Like she is famous for an extremely illustrative and colorful humorous explanation of blowjob giving.

[Griffin]

I want to ask each of those people what is she famous for? Why are you upset right now?

[David]

Being America's sweetheart.

[Griffin]

I forgot about yes.

[David]

And she and honey don't. Why isn't she in Honey, five minutes of pep. If she talk to her.

[Griffin]

If she's in Go Beavers. Are we excited?

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

If they announce there. Yeah.

[David]

I'll buy a beaver coin.

[Matty Luchansky]

You'll buy a unseated day one for Go Beavers.

[Griffin]

So see couldn't be more seated.

[Matty Luchansky]

It is nothing like can I'm in a chair.

[David]

Exactly. I won't be giving an ovation because I'm seated.

[Griffin]

This movie comes out first Week of September.

[David]

This film came out in the very hot late August corridor.

[Griffin]

Last weekend of August.

[David]

Yeah, August 22nd.

[Griffin]

It screens at.

Film festival. You see it around then.

[David]

I was shown it right then by the good people of Focus Features right then, who were like, are you gonna do, like, a simultaneous review? Are you gonna. And I was like, oh, maybe. I guess we'll see what I think of it. And then I saw it, and I gave a polite boobs review on Letterbox.

[Griffin]

We'll talk about my podcast in six months. Glowingly.

[David]

I mean, it was very much a sort of like, hey, I kind of like Drive Away Dolls, so. Fuck, yeah. I'll give it a. Sure, give it a whirl.

[Griffin]

I like Driveway Dolls. That episode was recorded before I'd seen Honey Don't. I feel like I had a very genuine defense of that movie on that episode.

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

After now seeing Honey don't twice, I would even defend Driveway Dolls more.

[David]

Yeah, sure. I agree.

[Matty Luchansky]

I didn't like Driveway Dolls at all when I saw it. But I was like, I mean, I'll. I'll keep. I think Mr. Cohen has had enough. He deserves a second chance from old Maddie. Like, do I know better than him? So I go see the new one.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

And now I'm like, this is Driveway Dolls good.

[Griffin]

I. I like Driveway Dolls.

[David]

Driveway Dolls is. Is a movie more than anything.

[Matty Luchansky]

It functions as a film.

[David]

Exactly. It's a film where, like, I really like the beats basically make sense to me. I'm basically with it the whole time. I think there's, you know, there's something to the main couple, like, you know.

[Griffin]

Where there's, like, a connection in it that I find affecting.

[David]

Honeydone is basically a movie that I was kind of out on from the start. And then the ending was so bad like, that it really sort of hurt the rest.

[Griffin]

I'm kind of with it until the last 20 minutes.

[David]

I think that's.

[Griffin]

Yeah, that's such a disastrous ending that it basically undoes everything I liked about the movie up until that point. We'll get into all of this. Here's the timeline I want to spell out. You see it, right?

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

When I saw the trailer, I was kind of encouraged. Cause I was like, okay, it looks a little formally tighter. There's kind of a genre riff happening here. There's seemingly a central plot thread of a mystery. This maybe looks like slightly more of a movie than Driveway Dolls, a fun lark that I enjoy. Then David sees it, and he's like, it is less of a movie than Driveway Dolls.

[David]

I did warn you.

[Griffin]

Okay, so we now have this on the schedule coming up six months from now. And he's like, kind of a. Not an exciting way to end a.

[David]

Six month series, but, you know, perhaps.

[Griffin]

The greatest living filmmaker.

[David]

And this is a great episode, but we've had some. We've discussed some masterpieces. We've had. We've had good times digging through big movies.

[Matty Luchansky]

So I'm just glad, after a run of giving a lot of smaller artists and people a chance, getting someone really big on, like me to talk about this.

[Griffin]

Well, here's Matty. Matty. This is the road I'm paving. Okay, Maddie. Maddie. David's like, who should we have on as a guest? And I'm like, here's what I think we should do. Let's wait until the movie comes out and see if anyone defends it or.

[David]

Even just has a reaction, honestly. Because it kind of felt like a movie that was gonna go nowhere and it kind of was like, it just came out to shrugs and negativity and was mostly ignored.

[Griffin]

And we don't need to like this movie.

[Matty Luchansky]

No.

[Griffin]

Despite what some people accuse us of, we never pretend to like movies for the narrative of a miniseries.

[David]

We only do that for money.

[Griffin]

When the money clears.

[David]

Exactly.

[Griffin]

That's what the money's for.

[David]

That's a briefcase.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Dollar bills.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

That's what I'm looking for.

[Griffin]

Right. We don't do it to make the episodes better. Right. But the movie comes out. There are not really vocal defenders that rise. But I see you posting takes that are at least like, considerate of, like, I struggled with this.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I tried to like it. And right before we started recording, you were like, we all dislike this. Right. I'm not going to be the one who, like, yucks. Everyone's yum.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

We're like, no. I just think you seemed very quickly like someone who would at least be interesting to have a conversation about this movie with, rather than just three people being like, whatever, you know? Because I do think there is stuff to wrestle with in this. I found this movie so deeply frustrating.

[Matty Luchansky]

Immensely.

[Griffin]

And I find it frustrating in a way that is very different from Driveway Dolls, which I accept being its own thing, even if it is kind of a silly trifle of a thing. I think that is what is intending to do. And I find that movie charming and entertaining to watch and funny. Yes. It does not, like, go off the charts in any of those areas, but I think it succeeds at its very modest intent. This is a movie that feels like a bad coen Brothers movie. It is so much closer to what they do together in a way that is just lacking juice. And for the first, like, 75% of it, I'm watching it and going like, okay, this is, like, this is an all right. Approximation of a Coen Brothers movie. It's frustrating because I know they can do this better together, but whatever. And then the last 20 minutes are just, like. They feel like a shrug and a panic, and it kind of reveals that the movie had no idea what it was actually doing up until that point.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. For me, I think it's so illuminating that, like, they really just think they're making the Long Goodbye a lot. To the point where there's, like, lots and lots and lots of things pointing directly to it. There's, like, a cat on an orange counter and there's, like, a lady playing a piano in a bar, whatever. To the point where I went and watched Along Goodbye Again, because I'm like, I have to.

And now I feel even worse about the movie because I watched A Long Goodbye recently. But, like, that movie also similarly has a kind of ending that's, like, the first time you watch it, you're like, oh, it's a little bit out of nowhere. And then you think about it, you're like, no, this is actually really.

[David]

That was layered in.

[Matty Luchansky]

It was layered in and interesting and, like. And it means something for this character that this happened this way, like he's sick of getting dumped on or whatever. Whereas, like, this movie is just sort of like. And now it's over.

[Griffin]

Here is what is most frustrating about it to me is that I think Joel and Ethan together are the kings of an ending that should be unsatisfying.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Right. Of, like, constructing a story that feels like it's leading into one direction and then ending on a very messy, ambiguous note, letting plot threads completely dissolve, you know, or just, like, wander off screen taking these hard left turns. These things that could be seen as frustrating and sort of flippant towards the audience, but I think are actually.

Kind of like.

That. That feel almost intellectually profound to me.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And this movie, my first time watching it, I'm like, why is this doing the same moves, except it's just making me mad and I cannot find any rhyme or reason or meaning in what they're subverting.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. Like, you. I've been listening to the series as you guys have been doing it, and you kept talking about, like, earlier in their career, the way people, critics, some critics would talk about their work, where it's like, just Cruel or whatever. This movie feels like that the movie those people think they're watching.

[David]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Where it's just kind of like tonally mean in a way that I don't quite understand. Left kind of a bad taste in my mouth.

[David]

It is a surprisingly mean, spirited movie, given that it is initially kind of not like, initially you're like, yeah, this is a romp. I get it. It's like a very broad satire. And then at the end you're like.

[Matty Luchansky]

Huh, there's like two pieces in it.

[David]

Weird edge to it.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. Like, there's the scene where was it Chris Evans?

[David]

Like, he's there.

[Matty Luchansky]

He finds out that one guy died and they go out and the guy's like, dead on the ground. And, like. And they do again, like a. A horrible, mutated version of my favorite Cohen's thing, which is two people having a regular conversation while something insane is happening behind them or near them.

[Griffin]

Yes, yes.

[Matty Luchansky]

And they're doing that. But it's not funny. It is, like, legitimately sad watching this guy weep over his dead son.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

And then there's the bit where the guy's like, oh, like, let me suck your dick. And he gets run over by the car. And I'm just like, okay, so you're just like, showing a gay guy get murdered by a car. Like, I don't.

[David]

You're right. That there's. It's tonally strange when they work together, that in many Cohen movies that sort of these horrifying or shocking things happen and you're, like, very in it. It's very. In the flow of the story. They manage the tone. Right. And that stuff does kind of feel like, you know, some guy who's not a Coen brother being like, I know what Coen brother movies are like. And yet he is a Coen brother.

[Griffin]

That's.

[David]

He's one of the two.

[Matty Luchansky]

This whole time he's been one of the two Coens.

[Griffin]

I said to you recently, David, that this movie kind of broke me.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, you said that.

[David]

And I was like, this one, Right?

[Griffin]

And you were like, it can just be bad. You don't need to be fighting over this.

[David]

And I was like, you don't need to be, like, in turmoil.

[Griffin]

I'm not at war with whether or not I like this movie. Right. I'm at war with, like, why doesn't this work? And it's easy to just say it doesn't, but it is bizarre because it's doing things that are so similar to the things I value in Cohen's films with as we said someone who is a Coen brother.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yes, one of the two.

[Griffin]

On second viewing. I have some thoughts.

[Matty Luchansky]

Facts checked. True, it's hard to make the two.

[Griffin]

But I think Coen brothers. I think Coen movies are filled with these kinds of moments where you're just like, that's a story decision no other filmmaker would make. Right. Or that's. And on top of that, tonally, that scene is played in the opposite way of how I would imagine anyone else would approach it. In a comedy, this scene is suddenly very violent and dark. In a drama, this scene is suddenly very funny and over the top. Right? These things that feel like they should bump on you. And with the Coens, I don't know what degree of it is, just the trust they have earned from us at this point, when a moment like that happens in one of their movies, I lean in and I go, huh? Why are they doing this? I, like, give them the benefit of the doubt. And I feel like every other time it has paid off for me, whether at the conclusion of the movie where I suddenly go, I get it. This is what it was all about. And this was the larger point they were making. This is why they were playing with narrative expectations and uncomfortable feelings, or if it doesn't work for me the first time, I go back and watching a second time and I go, now I get it. And, like, this is one of the only ones, if not the only one, where I'm like, I truly kind of don't get what's going on here. I think this movie has ideas in it. There are things it is contending with that I find kind of interesting and sticky. And certainly on the first viewing and even giving it a second watch this morning and being like, I'm really trying to meet it on its terms. I was getting re Engaged in some of the things in the first half and then just, like, completely pushed off the bike again the second half. Matty, what is your history with the cons?

[Matty Luchansky]

Ooh, that's a good question. I. I think in college, in the early 2000s, the movie theater near my college was playing the Big Lebowski on a big screen.

[Griffin]

Another film.

[Matty Luchansky]

Another film that this film is maybe trying to be a little bit very.

[Griffin]

Indebted to the Long Goodbye as well.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. This is like, that movie is like, what if Philip Marlowe is, like, even stupider? And this movie is like, what if? I mean, this one, it was just like, what if Philip Marlowe was, like, a young lesbian? And then they kind of. They stopped and they kind of walked away and hope that they came back in the room later and the script be done. And then I just fell in love with it and I had that stupid DVD that's like the bowling ball that untwists big time. And then I just got really into their movies from that point. I went back and I just filled in all my gaps and I tried. I've seen everything. I think first run since then. But I will say, like, especially I want to say Inside Llewyn Davis and Hail Caesar and what was the one just before Lewin Davis?

[Griffin]

More burn after reading.

[Matty Luchansky]

No, serious man. Serious man.

[Griffin]

There we go.

[Matty Luchansky]

Those three. Burn after reading. I was the only person I knew that liked it when I saw the theater. It was very gratifying to listen to the episode. Correct?

[Griffin]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Matty Luchansky]

But those three in particular, I watched them and I was kind of like, I don't get it. But, like. And then I would just be thinking about them for months and I'm like, I gotta watch them again. And now those three are like my favorite three, I think.

[Griffin]

I mean, this is what I'm saying. Like, that was my experience with Hail.

[Matty Luchansky]

Caesar, the first time I have seen that movie. Now I think 10 times. Like, I love it so much.

[Griffin]

Like, same. And I, I. It completely makes sense to me now. And it was, that was a movie where the first time some of the wrong footing. I was like, I don't get what they're doing here, but when you go back to it, it rewards you. Yeah. It starts to make sense when you understand what the movie isn't doing and you stop holding those expectations against it that we're sort of are drilled into us by more conventional movies.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. And, you know, and like, for me, it's sort of like they are, you know, they're like, it's not to sound so fucking basic, but like, they're like the first, like, directors that weren't Tim Burton or Steven Spielberg that I was like, these are directors that I've heard of when I was younger.

[David]

Yeah, they're one of the first directors that you have heard of if you're our age.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. It was like them and like PTA were like, okay, here's directors that now when they have new movies, I will go see their movies.

[Griffin]

I mean, I talk about it a lot, but, like, Tim Burton does sort of make sense as the ultimate starter kit auteur for people of our generation because it's so easy to understand what his hallmarks are. Right. And then Spielberg is the guy you hear everyone in culture cite as shorthand for successful.

[Matty Luchansky]

He's on the Animaniacs.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Matty Luchansky]

And he's the only director on the Animaniacs.

[Griffin]

You know the name, you know the visual, you know the hits and whatever. And there's, like, Spielberg magic. But also, as we've grown up, the definition of a Spielberg movie has changed a bunch. Sure. But the Coens are like those directors that you can sort of feel like you're doing the work yourself to understand what their thing is.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Rather than it being like, served up to you completely already by pop culture.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right. And their movies are just so. To me, like, just so magical the way that they have so many moving parts that are, like, unlike anybody else. And I will say the thing about maybe, like, the. I was trying to get to the bottom of, like, why did this movie leave such a weird taste in my mouth tonally? And I think it's because the other of their movies. It's two things. I think it's. The attention to detail is missing.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

And the dialogue isn't there. Whereas, like other Cohen movies, the dialogue is so special and sticky and compelling that when it's not there, when Chris Evans is saying best sex ever or whatever, it's like, the dialogue wasn't there. The jokes weren't there. I wrote down one of the jokes. It was, like, driving me crazy. It's like when in that scene where the. The. The. The kid dies. Yeah. The Australian guy says, my body's a temple. You should see it with a Shake Weight. And I was like, that's a joke in a Coen Brothers movie.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Like, are you not Cohen. Sorry. A Coen Brother movie.

[Griffin]

A Cohen Cook movie.

[David]

But it is.

[Matty Luchansky]

You know what I mean?

[David]

I know what you mean. That it is. It's somewhat disturbing to consider. Like, them knowing about Shake Weights. I don't want them to know about that.

[Matty Luchansky]

It just feels like a lazy. It's a lazier joke, and it's way out of time.

[David]

It is.

[Griffin]

But once again, like Driveway Dolls feels like it's playing. Is a sillier movie that feels like it's playing an entirely different game. And I'm not pinging it for not nailing, like, Raising Arizona esque Rattatat dialogue. Whereas this is getting so close that you become more aware of the gap between what it's trying to do and the literally 20 perfect versions of it. You've seen one of these people do before.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. The other thing they also do in a lot of their other movies is, like, paying homage to stuff in a way that is not Tired. That is interesting. That has something to say. And this one is just doing big time. Member that stuff?

[Griffin]

Well, even the home invasion scene of the young boy and his mother being attacked. Right. I think is pretty well directed. And I'm sitting there.

[David]

You're right. Yeah.

[Griffin]

And watching it usually it's good, right? And I was just like, okay. This actually, like, builds tension. It's using like negative space and silence in this very, like, classically Cohen's way. It remains specific to its character. It has like shocking moments of humor and a violence. And I felt a little electrified being like, okay, so like, Ethan. Ethan's like showing up as a director, right? Like, he's like doing something here cinematically. And the scene ends. And I'm like, I have seen 15 better versions of this scene done by that same guy, you know?

[Matty Luchansky]

And also, like, the way that the. The grandma get gets killed is like another sort of, like, to me a taste level thing. It just feels sort of like unnecessarily mean. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

[Griffin]

There was this quote I brought up a lot throughout this series where Ethan has said, you know, when people ask me what a director does, I don't have an answer. And over the years, I finally settled on one, which is tone management. And you do look at most of their films and you're like, that is kind of their ultimate magic, is the tone management of how can they hold these two things at the same time? And how can they put these scenes next to each other with such a wide kind of variance of human emotion and tone? Right? And this is a movie where it just does not coalesce. And there are things in it if I'm like, just watching it on a scene by scene basis where I'm like, I'm kind of into this scene on its relative terms.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And then I get to the next scene and I'm like, I'm feeling whiplash. But I'm gonna trust them that this is all gonna come together. And then it has what. What our friend Sean fantasy on their recent House of Dynamite episode referred to as a kicking the full paint can into the open street ending.

[David]

Like the person wanted to do that out of anger is what you're saying.

[Griffin]

That it just feels like, I don't know, fuck you, whatever, you know, like, and House of Dynamite has that too, this ending where, like, the movie isn't totally working, but I'm like, following and some of the scenes are working. And then you're like, let's see if you can pull it together. And then the ending is like, I don't know.

[David]

Fuck off. The ending's like, okay, we're done. And you're like, oh no, but what about the ending? And they're like, oh, no, these are the credits.

[Griffin]

I said we're done.

[David]

These people made the movie.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

And I'm like, oh, okay. Did they now?

[Ben Hasley]

The tone is basically just like, like.

[Matty Luchansky]

Almost like a bomb falling.

[Ben Hasley]

Kind of just like House of Dynamite just feeds.

[David]

I heard on a podcast that we built House of Dynamite.

[Griffin]

I heard that too.

So I've got a question for all the gamers out there, and I'm pointing at you, David.

[David]

Are you seriously going to miss out on Alienware's biggest gaming sale of of the year?

[Griffin]

I mean, these are Cyber Monday prices we're talking about, so it's not just another sale.

[David]

Yeah, I took a look and this is some pretty big bang for your.

[Griffin]

Buck, you know, it's Alienware with some of the most advanced engineering out there with systems at the top of every reviewer's lists.

[David]

And what about a gift for yourself? Give yourself a new Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop. I mean this thing's got performance at the absolute next level with, with Intel Core Ultra processor.

[Griffin]

And even better, you can get it during Cyber Monday. Plus you can save on all kinds of displays and accessories like the Alienware 32 4K QD OLED gaming monitor for ultimate visual fidelity.

[David]

These really are incredible deals on PCs with otherworldly performance. So I'd visit alienware.com deals soon and grab what you can before the lowest prices of the year go dark.

Honeydon, what does everybody think of Margaret Qualley? Because I do think outside of this stuff we're discussing tone management, Ethan, like minus, you know, like Cohen spec simile feeling or whatever.

[Griffin]

And we should acknowledge that much like Driveway Dolls, this is a movie that by all accounts was completely co directed by Trisha Cook in addition to being written and produced. But because of DGA guidelines, much like the early part of their career.

[David]

Trisha Cook is very much the co author of these two films.

[Griffin]

Yes, in every are very clear about.

[David]

That in the interviews, etc. Margaret Qualley, who plays the character of Honey O' Donoghue in this film Private. Really good in Bakersfield, California.

[Matty Luchansky]

Great Bakersfield accent by the way.

[David]

She's the queen of accents. What do we think of Margaret Qualley who is having, I would say a fairly sustained run at this point of being in movies.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

I so, so that.

[David]

I think that that noise that Maddie Just Made is right where I am with Margaret Qualley.

[Matty Luchansky]

I feel like there's times I like. I liked her in the substance, sure. Otherwise I'm sort. I didn't like her in Driveway Dolls.

[David]

A very strong performance. Like a real, like, you know, that's.

[Griffin]

A Marmite performance that I defend. But I cannot argue with anyone who's like, that drove me crazy.

[Matty Luchansky]

And I think the other thing is like, okay, so like the noir thing, right? I've been watching a lot of noirs lately in preparation for this because I was like, I gotta get back in the zone, right? And. And I was like, okay. So. Because like a thing that happens all the time in noirs is shit just starts happening and then it stops happening. The movie's over. And maybe sometimes you're Philip Marlowe or whoever, you're Eddie Valiant. You're fucking Eddie Valiant, the dude, whatever. Like just sort of like. It's just kind of like, okay, I'm gonna go home now and the movie's over. But like.

[David]

And they're kind of like, oh, another day in this crazy town.

[Matty Luchansky]

Exactly. But those movies work because the people at the center you care about, or at least they're compelling or whatever. And in this movie, for one reason or another, I feel like quali is sort of like a charisma void.

[Griffin]

Well, let me.

[David]

Character feels a little cosplay to me. Like Margaret doing cosplay. Like honey doing co. Like right. Where I'm like, this girl's kind of putting on like a show.

[Matty Luchansky]

She's a Rolodex. Yeah, yeah.

[David]

Like, where I'm like, this is. What is this?

[Griffin]

I want to circle back to her in a second because I. I think you're raising an interesting point here now and then.

[David]

Not Arizona, not raising that.

[Griffin]

No. You. You have not to date raised one of Nathan Arizona's children.

[Matty Luchansky]

Well, those aren't mine.

[Griffin]

Good.

[Matty Luchansky]

I've given them back.

[Griffin]

That was. That was a test and you just passed. You should not be raising Nathan Arizona's children. They are not.

[David]

Unless he has.

[Griffin]

If you say yes, then you can say yes, but you shouldn't take the initiative.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

The Cohens are obviously very indebted to that kind of noir filmmaking. And also obviously the history of American noir.

[David]

Enough hard boiled crime novels.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right.

[Griffin]

And even in their non noir films, I do think that is a thing they've really adopted across almost all of their work, which is very often the lack of resolution. A conventional resolution is the point for them. Right.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Things like.

Burn after reading or no country or Even serious man that feel like they're building and building and building and then completely veer off from the obvious blow up the confrontation, the moment of closure work for me because they're not just misdirects. It's like that is the thematic point to them. Much in the way that noirs are about these people who are broken down and cynical, realizing how powerless they are to actually change anything. Right.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. The universe is cruel and more importantly, confusing.

[Griffin]

Exactly.

[Matty Luchansky]

You can never really get your arms.

[Griffin]

Around it, which is really, I think, like the core issue of the Coen brothers work. That is the thing that all of their movies are really contending with of, like, is this meaningless or not? And if it's meaningless, then what's the point? What do we owe each other? What do we owe ourselves? How do you find some sort of peace within that chaos and the lack of meaning? And so I think all their other endings work because the lack of resolution is the statement they are making that life doesn't give you that kind of resolution. And this movie, in being a hard boiled detective noir riff true, should be even more well set up to get away with that kind of ending. And yet it doesn't. And I do think.

I don't think it's her performance that's the problem. As much I like her in this, I was pretty resistant to her when she started out.

[David]

Interesting.

[Griffin]

Sure. I just felt like, I don't know, I don't get what all the buzz is about her without having like a major issue. I wouldn't say I was allergic, but I was like, I don't know. Look, she's. She's an incredibly attractive daughter of a movie star who is one of those people who was kind of like in magazines before she had credits where it felt like there was a slight degree of she's being shoved down our throats as the next big thing.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And I always think I get a little defensive about, like, well, let me decide with these people.

[David]

Sure, yeah, sure, sure. With the hot young things.

[Griffin]

And over time, I'm like, I like the choices she makes. I like the people she works with. I think she has a lot of, like, I. I admire her bravery in terms of not feeling the need to define a thing she does and stick to it. Even if you look at these two Coens movies and the substance and all the other stuff she does, there's like a tremendous range of what she does. She doesn't feel protective of any sign. Kind of like brand as an actress, which I always admire.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. You know, I liked her in was Kinds of Kindness.

[David]

I liked her in Kinds of Kindness.

[Griffin]

Never saw Kinds of Kindness.

[Matty Luchansky]

She's in it very briefly and I like her in it.

[David]

She has a quadruple role in that.

[Matty Luchansky]

She did.

[Griffin]

I thought she was great in Poor Things, even though that isn't a very large role. I know that's another one that people.

[Matty Luchansky]

Making the same noises. David.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

I was pumped on my whole thing with her was she. I first saw her in the Leftovers, didn't know who she was, and was like, the.

[Griffin]

The.

[David]

The girl playing the daughter, like, has such a look, and then Googled and was like, oh, it's Andie McDowell's daughter.

[Griffin]

Well, right.

[David]

That'll give you a look.

[Griffin]

It'll give you a look.

[Matty Luchansky]

She's a looker.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

But she's very good in the Leftovers. And so I was like, you know, check noted. Like, you know, and then when she was in the sort of the. The Nepo Maelstrom that is Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I was like, oh, that's, I guess, something Quentin's going for.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Like, it's like there's so many daughters of and sons of famous people in that movie.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Feels pointed.

[Griffin]

But he also, like, identifies like, 10 of the next.

[David]

He does. I mean, it is crazy that they're all hanging out at the Spawn Ranch.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right.

[David]

Sydney Sweeney and all those people.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Whoever else is in that. I can't remember who else is in it.

[Griffin]

Dakota Fanning.

[David]

She's great.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Love her.

[Matty Luchansky]

That Leonardo DiCaprio guy.

[David]

Never heard of his wife.

[Griffin]

He's in the. He is in the movie.

[Matty Luchansky]

She's in the movie as well.

[Griffin]

But she's very good in it.

[David]

She's good.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

And then I have just been like, she is one of the most, like, coin flip actors for me since then. Sure. Where I have, like, performances. Others have bumped on Blue Moon this year, which is a movie I adore. She has this like 15 minute monologue in it that I think she does a good job. And it's sort of supposed to make me feel on edge, but it really exemplified the Margaret Crawley experience for me where I was just like, do I like this? She's pretty and she's holding the camera. But am I. Is this a good performance or am I just kind of like. Is it just kind of sticking out?

[Griffin]

Sure.

[David]

In a way that's maybe. Whatever. I don't know. It's hard to. Hard to say.

[Griffin]

I think her Driveway doll's performance is Sandy Cheeks, the astronaut Squirrel from Earth. From the land is very broad and in quotes and is sort of.

[David]

Yeah, for sure.

[Griffin]

Consciously cosplaying. Right. She is not looking for any sort of like realism in that. In this. Just because it was another film from the same team with the same lead actress. I was expecting her to do the same thing and I think she is.

I, I was. God, I don't want to say I was surprised by how grounded she was, but maybe just in comparison to the previous work.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

That I, I was kind of buying her in this milieu, playing it relatively straight. I agree with you that there's an element to it feels like the character is doing an act and is kind of self stylized as, you know, a hero of her own story.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Which is why you want the movie to like unwind her a little bit. I think that is the ultimate failing is not in her performance in that they actually don't give her fucking anything to play other than an improv scene. Genre exercise of Private Detective.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. When I saw it on the big screen, I think I got a little fooled by the magic of the movies because I was like, I actually think she's pretty good in it. And I was shocked because in general I tend to dislike her in most things and maybe I'm just holding a grudge because she plays Anne Reinking and can't dance on Fosse Verde and Drummond saying, look, fair, listen, listen, it's a capital offense where I'm from. Um, but no, I. And, and, and I watched it on the big screen. I was like, oh, she's actually pretty good. I'm like shocked. And then I watched it again the other day and I was like, I actually don't know.

[Griffin]

Am I seeing through this?

[Matty Luchansky]

Am I, am I was I just like, wow, she's the size of a house.

[Griffin]

But sure. But also, how much of that is like you go into it knowing that there's no there there for the character. Right?

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I was like, I was just so hoping that something would coalesce more interesting about the movie that wasn't happening that I just found myself so frustrated that maybe I took it out that way. I don't know.

[Griffin]

I was looking at your August 18th log of this movie, seeing it at Momi, the moment when I pinged David and said, Maddie seems to half like this. We should have her on the show. I don't know if we're gonna find anyone more positive.

[David]

Talks about having you on the show.

[Griffin]

And you said, really love the first half of this. Everyone was good. Looks very good. But Feels a lot less than the sum of its parts. Honey, just. Okay, honey, fine. Yeah. And then I messaged you and you said you were disappointed it wasn't worse because you had better letterbox jokes lined up that you then didn't get to use.

[Matty Luchansky]

Correct.

[David]

Remember any of those?

[Matty Luchansky]

I think it was like, honey won't. Honey shouldn't things Honey shant. Honey shit.

[Griffin]

My favorite was honey don't see it.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, you would.

[David]

Yeah. Honey, third act problems.

[Griffin]

Honey, third act problems.

[David]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[David]

I think. I think that's a.

[Matty Luchansky]

That.

[David]

That's a solid one.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Yeah. It would be funny if Honey's like, I've solved the mystery. There's third act problems.

[Griffin]

But I think watching it the first time, you're like.

Sorry, I was doing a magnifying glass. This is going somewhere. And clearly at some point this character will deepen.

[Matty Luchansky]

Sure.

[Griffin]

Beyond just kind of an affectation. Yeah. Here's what I think. This movie is actually sort of trying to be about vaginas. No. What? I actually sort of think it's trying to be about boobs.

[Matty Luchansky]

The long good boob.

[Griffin]

Now you sound like David.

[David]

It'd be funny if we were like the big debate, vagina versus boobs. No. No. Okay.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay.

[David]

What's it about? What's about?

[Griffin]

I think it's actually trying to be about examining the ways in which men hold power over women. If you look at the prism of everything happening around her in this movie, right. It is sort of like here is someone who is a private investigator. She works for no one.

[David]

Sure. She's a private dick, but she doesn't have one.

[Griffin]

But she doesn't have.

[David]

I don't understand this, but she's dealing with a lady doing detective. Sorry, go ahead.

[Matty Luchansky]

A lady doing detective.

[David]

A lady doing detective.

[Griffin]

She's dealing with the. The law, you know, she's dealing with her clients. She's dealing with the criminal element. She is dealing with organized religion, you know, or perhaps cults that are sort of framing themselves as organized religion to become consolidations of money and power and sex and cults of personality and the relationship with the father, which is the point where I'm watching it the first time, and I'm like, okay, is this going somewhere?

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

Is there thematically something here in this sort of like someone who has worked so hard to define herself not in relationship to any man. Not only because that is not how she sexually identifies, but also because she doesn't want to be part of these systems. Right. And like the early stuff with her sister, who is Kristen Connolly, who's an actress I like a lot.

[David]

Love that actor.

[Griffin]

And I like that scene, the two of them on the porch together where it feels like there's actually some real emotion here. Like, where is this going? Her sister.

[David]

Who answer is kind of nowhere.

[Matty Luchansky]

She's in the house.

[Griffin]

Her sister has many children. There's like kind of no solid male figure in sight. She's pregnant yet again. And makes a crack about her siblings. Can't even. Her children can't even remember how many siblings they have right now. They're not excited for the new baby. And her oldest child is played by Talia Ryder, who's in her rebellious teen phase. Is dating a bad guy.

[David]

Right. Right. An obvious sort of future abusive husband. If things go that way.

[Griffin]

Right. It's like a cycle is continuing. You'll later find out that Honey's father, who's trying to make amends, was also abusive. That they've both distanced themselves from him. And that the daughter's lashing out. That she feels like her mother's critiquing her too much and warning her about how badly things are going to turn out. When she's looking for support, she's getting anger, you know. And how do women end up giving power over to men? Which is the biggest fucking mess of this movie is just getting into spoilers. Aubrey Plaza revealing herself to be like an 80s movie slasher villain who has gone insane. Victim blaming women who are victims of abuse because she thinks it's about women being weak enough that they let themselves be abused.

[David]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

So I'm going to solve that by kidnapping random teenagers and torturing them to death.

[Griffin]

That my father abused me.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And I now resent now other people who don't know how to correct that situation because she murdered her father to get out of it. Or he died independently. I can't remember.

[Matty Luchansky]

Spot. You're standing. Honey.

[Griffin]

What's.

[Ben Hasley]

What's the problem there?

[Griffin]

I would say it's not played very well.

[David]

So that was what I was about to say. I would say that is a twist that would be tough to get across maybe anyway. Because it feels a little out of nowhere and a little convenient. Yada, yada, yada. I also think Plaza cannot do it. Like. And that's another actor that I make a noise about when I'm like, do I like this actor?

[Griffin]

She is way more that for me. And I. You had told me, like, watching this, like, I'm. I'm questioning if she can act at all. So I went in watching it. And until the final scene, I Was like. I actually like her more in this terms because she.

[Matty Luchansky]

I liked her a lot in the rest of it because she's really good. Good at that. She's good at playing horny.

[David]

Good at playing horny. Good at playing flirty.

[Griffin]

Good at playing kind of temptress.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Temptress thingy.

[David]

So.

[Matty Luchansky]

Well, until the last scene. The whole time, like, wow, Aubrey, pl. Like, put her in the center of the movie.

[David]

Like, they didn't tell her the twist until, like. Like the minute they were rolling in there. Oh, and by the way, you've been the murderer the whole time.

[Matty Luchansky]

By the way.

[Griffin]

I'm like. I'm sympathetic to her. Where I watch that final sequence and I'm like, this feels like an actor being like, well, I'm gonna try my best. This is a tough assignment they gave me. And I'm gonna figure out a way and see if I have any end to playing it in a way that is believable.

[David]

My thing with Plaza had always been. I. I had struggled with some of. Like, I didn't like her very much in Legion, but I didn't like that show much or whatever. Like, I didn't like Ingrid Goes west as much as some people did. And. But then I did like. Like Emily the Criminal, which was a bit of an underseen little gem. And, like, there were certain things I. I enjoy her in Megalopolis. I was.

[Griffin]

She gets what movie she's in. I love her more than any other actor in the cast. She knows exactly what movie she's.

[David]

Sometimes it hits, and then sometimes I'm like, well, this didn't work. And this was kind of a. Was hitting and doesn't work all in one movie.

[Griffin]

It's all of it.

[David]

Ben, do you have a take here? I feel like. No. No.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[Ben Hasley]

I just kind of have a crush on her.

[David]

Aubrey Paza here, you're the first tier.

[Ben Hasley]

Sort of always in the bag.

[David]

You like someone who has a kind of could be mean to me vibe. I don't understand this. This is not. This is not your track. There's something about her. Cold cruelty.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Ben Hasley]

That just for whatever reason, sparks something in.

[Griffin]

Does that reflect your wife?

[Matty Luchansky]

No.

[David]

No. Very much. Sort of a million reasons. We love your wife.

[Ben Hasley]

Sort of a dating history.

[David]

Yes.

[Matty Luchansky]

That.

[Ben Hasley]

That conjures up for me that is.

[Matty Luchansky]

A lot of wows. Platinum in the past. Yes.

[Griffin]

More Emily's the criminals, I would say, than wow's Platinum.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay, okay, listen. Wow. Platinum has got some pretty nefarious motives.

[David]

Wild Platinum is up to no good.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Do you Know what's crazy?

[David]

What's up?

[Griffin]

So her character's name is Wild Platinum, right?

[David]

So true.

[Griffin]

And wow is one of the words that is said most often on the Doughboys podcast. And the highest honor they can bestow upon anything is the Platinum Play Club.

[David]

So true.

[Griffin]

And so I was watching this movie and wondering, does Francis Ford Coppola listen to the Doughboys podcast? Which does make sense because there are Coppola goofballs.

[David]

Thank you for saying that. And of course, that's something Nick wagger said about 400 times last year on Twitter. Oh, God.

[Griffin]

I think I'm the first one to say that on any podcast. Have any of you seen Megadoc?

[Matty Luchansky]

No, not yet. Because I am very invested in Michael Oxford.

[Griffin]

Absolutely.

[David]

A movie.

[Griffin]

I liked it Rules. It's great as a document.

[David]

It's great as Maddie. We're both interested in municipal politics and wacko movies made by Mad Men. Yeah, I look.

Hey, that's a really good point.

[Griffin]

I'm in the same boat as the two of you.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Griffin]

I think that movie is fascinating as like a supplemental document to understanding Megalopolis, but it's also like actually a good movie in its own right.

[Matty Luchansky]

Well, I understood it perfectly. No problems.

[Griffin]

Aubrey Plaza comes out of that movie a coherent film.

[David]

A2B 2C.

[Griffin]

Looking the best.

[David]

She does. She's one of the top, like, out.

[Griffin]

Of Megadoc, I'm saying makes her look even.

[Matty Luchansky]

I thought you meant maybe in the wig. She looks the best.

[David]

She, she does. She is looking pretty good.

[Griffin]

But you watch that and like both the behind the scenes footage of her interacting on set and rehearsals and whatever the, the they show all the like fucking weird Francis Ford Coppola acting exercise, improv stuff. Like all this footage you haven't seen of her performing in character, that's all great. And you're watching raw takes, but also all of her interviews. She comes off funny and smart and like the most transparent about everything that was happening in the ecosystem of that movie. Yeah, so I watched that and I'm like, she does kind of get it. Undeniably. And also she is someone who, versus a lot of her, like, contemporaries, has really been committed to movies.

[David]

Yeah, I, I, I completely agree with that. She, she tries stuff, she does interesting projects. She. Yeah, you're absolutely. And honestly, same with Margot Qualley. Yeah, I mean, it's like what I'm, I'm giving people respect for working, but I like that they're working.

[Griffin]

Like, but I think I'll replace if I can even go A step further in a. Just like, she gets brownie points for me forever for this. Like, does a lot of low budget stuff.

[David]

Sure, yeah.

[Griffin]

With like first or second time filmmakers where it feels like she's actually producing it, getting it off the ground, calling her friends in, interested in taking like a fifth supporting part in something, you know, just to work with interesting people. And has done a season of White Lotus and did Legion or whatever. But doesn't just feel like she's doing the streaming Prestige Cash in.

[Matty Luchansky]

Wrong.

[Griffin]

You're right. You're right. She's done a couple, but she's like.

[Matty Luchansky]

Was it all the time?

[David]

In my opinion, the best MCU thing since Avengers Endgame or whatever.

[Griffin]

She is largely not doing big payday streaming that doesn't exist, which almost all of the people from her generation got caught up doing.

[Matty Luchansky]

Wow.

[Griffin]

Now, speaking of, Chris Evans is in this movie. It represents Chris Evans. Try year 2025, where he decided to try giving a shit again.

[David]

He got off his ass a little bit. I would say. He's been somewhat forthcoming. Like, I'm aware that I made a bunch of dog after Knives out. Right? Like he's sort of said it out loud, right? God, like, because his post, we talked about it, but the sort of like Gray man ghosted Pain Hustlers. Red one. Jesus Christ.

[Griffin]

It's really bad.

[Matty Luchansky]

Sorry, is there a movie called Pain Hustlers? Are you saying two different movies?

[David]

Pain Hustlers is a Netflix film. I mean that. Honestly, that's the. The most. Right. Arty thing he did. It's like a biopic about opioid hustlers. Emily Blunt and Chris Evans. It was, you know, came and went.

[Griffin]

From 2019 when he has Knives out and Endgame and you're like, here we go. This guy's unlocked. He's freed from Marvel and he just killed it in a movie playing a real person.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, he's off the leash.

[Griffin]

Here we go. And then for the next six years or the. Yes, yes, for the next five years. Because 2025 is when he gives a shit again. For the next five years, he only does streaming bullshit. And the only two movies he is in that go to theaters are Lightyear, in which he played the real Buzz Lightyear.

[Matty Luchansky]

Well, in the universe of not the.

[Griffin]

Toy, the man that the Toy is.

[David]

Based on, based on a film that is, of course, disgusting and frazzled. Snoop Dogg with its portrayal of lesbianism.

[Griffin]

It's undevilable.

[David]

We're coming back to Honeydew.

[Griffin]

How is she supposed to explain this?

[Matty Luchansky]

He should never Watch Honeydewned.

[David]

He seemed to more be saying that he possibly is too stoned to literally explain homosexual relationships and that Lightyear was simply bothering him because it was prompting that he wasn't even like, get this. Woke off my screen. He was like, I am too lazy to explain anything.

[Griffin]

If you have ever taken a small child to see a movie, something I know you now do.

[David]

I sure have. Yeah. And my child has unfortunately seen Lightyear like seven or eight times.

[Griffin]

Really?

[Matty Luchansky]

I told you.

[David]

I've said this on this podcast before. She calls it Grumpy Buzz. She doesn't even like it that much, but occasionally she's like, I want to watch Grumpy Buzz.

[Griffin]

I. I don't know if you told me this before.

[David]

I forgot this movie a lot. She. I mean, she definitely likes socks more than most of the movie because that's at least a cat. That's cute.

[Griffin]

Calling it Grumpy Buzz kind of underlines the core problem of that movie's existence.

[David]

She really zeroed in. Right.

[Matty Luchansky]

She's right.

[David]

What the movie is giving you is.

[Griffin]

What, like kind of grumpy.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right?

[Griffin]

Fact. Have you seen Lightyear?

[David]

You can check that one out.

[Matty Luchansky]

Hey, I just have a real quick question for you. Why would I have seen Light Year?

[Griffin]

Great question.

[David]

Why do you experience the events of Lightyear?

[Griffin]

I've said this before in the pod, but I was dating a woman and.

At the time that Light Year came out and I went to go see it by myself and she found the stub in my pocket. And I think it's not unrelated. It was like finding dumped with him.

[David]

Like two condoms in your pocket, one used. She's like, what is this?

[Matty Luchansky]

Is this just checking out Grumpy Buzz?

[David]

She was like, ear stuff.

[Griffin]

Did you take your little cousin? I was like, no, I had time after record. I went to go see it by myself.

[Matty Luchansky]

I mean, I. I'll watch basically anything. I'll also watch anything animated.

[Griffin]

Basically just saying my aspect.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, I was going to say Lightyear.

[David]

Kind of looks all right.

[Griffin]

It looks good.

[David]

Pretty expensive animated film.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, I. Pixar kind of lost me is the thing.

[Griffin]

I think they kind of lost.

[Matty Luchansky]

Not as good as it used to be.

[David]

The weird thing about Light Years, there are many weird things about it, obviously, but is that it is. The plot is basically like diet Interstellar. It's got like this complicated like time dilation plot.

[Griffin]

Yes, exactly what I was gonna say. You take a small child to see any movie, they will ask you a question every 15 seconds about what's going on at A certain age. Yes. So first of all, Snoop Dogg's point is invalidated because it's like, what? I don't want to have to explain this.

[David]

You also have to explain, like relativity.

[Griffin]

You're gonna have to. This is a movie that has such complicated concepts in it.

[David]

It does.

[Matty Luchansky]

Does anybody fold the piece of paper and put a pencil through it?

Science fiction movie since the dawn of time.

[Griffin]

This is what's so weird is that Interstellar, a movie for grown ups does that. And everyone's like, oh, thanks for trivia explanation like babies. And then light years, like, fine, we got it. You want to be treated like grown ups and doesn't take the time to explain it to children.

[David]

Let me just say, Diane, a tangent off this tangent because we don't need to discuss lighter that much anyway.

[Griffin]

Juicy fingers. How are you supposed to explain juicy fingers to children?

[Matty Luchansky]

Sorry.

[Griffin]

The worst concept in Light Year is that in their alternate reality or their future, their far off future, it's the future. They eat inverted sandwiches where the meat is on the outside, the bread's in the middle. And Buzz said, why would you do that? And they go. So you get juicy fingers. That's the best part. When the meat juices get on your fingers and you have to lick them.

[David]

It's like the kind of sex joke that would be in Honey, don't explain.

[Griffin]

That to your grandchildren. Snoop.

[David]

I haven't explained anything that's happening in Lightyear to my child, who seems to have forgotten that movie exists recently. Which is good fingers. I had a pivot off of Light Year. I'm wearing a juicy fingers.

[Griffin]

Tangent off a tangent really threw me.

Relativity. Not explaining pencil through the David Gyasi.

[David]

Or GIAs, I'm not sure how you say Romuly. Who astronaut plays Romuly in Interstellar, is now in Netflix's the Diplomat, a show that I watch and enjoy.

[Matty Luchansky]

Is that the Kerry Russell.

[David]

That's the Kerry Russell show where there's a twist every five minutes and it rocks and it's very silly and frothy.

[Matty Luchansky]

It makes me look up from doing the.

[David]

Exactly. And David Gyasi is in it playing a hot British foreign secretary. And it's just always a pleasure to see that guy. He's so fucking good looking. He's also a good actor.

[Griffin]

Great in Cloud Atlas.

[David]

Yes, he is.

[Matty Luchansky]

Oh, that guy.

[Griffin]

Yeah, he rules.

[David]

He's just got like a really, really great drawl, great way of talking, a great furrowed brat. Like, he's great.

[Griffin]

He's great. The only other movie that Chris Evans was in that went to theaters was of course, Free Guy where he makes a three second cameo seemingly filmed on an iPhone playing himself. He.

[David]

He did do that. He is Red one, I believe, did go to theaters. I mean, you are.

[Griffin]

You are tragically correct. I mean, like, and technicality.

[David]

I did see Gray man in theaters, but that was a four wall red. But Red. Red run got like a real release, I guess.

[Griffin]

Did, but it still is streaming.

[Matty Luchansky]

Did he reprise his role as Lucas Lee on the Scott Pilgrim show? He did.

[Griffin]

He did.

[Matty Luchansky]

Which that performance in that movie is so fucking.

[David]

He's awesome in that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Evans is a good and charming actors who've been working on our screens for more than 20 years at this.

[Griffin]

Point have always been a big defender. And I think you look at stuff like Lucas Lee, like, not another teen movie where you're like, this guy does get it.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Like, he is able to poke fun at himself in a way that shows that he doesn't know. He can't contend that he doesn't know what good material is. No, he's got taste because he's kind of in on the joke and he's worked with good filmmakers before.

[David]

I don't like materialists, but I don't think he's bad in it.

[Griffin]

I think he's quite good.

[David]

He's sort of doing his best.

[Griffin]

I like him a lot. That's a movie. I. Obviously you defend. Defend. But I also think that movie has a core issue with his performance that I think this movie carries as well. I have not seen the third film in his Tri Gear trilogy is the Ken Jones film Film Late Fame.

[David]

Yeah, well, I think that hasn't actually, you know, that got like a festival.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yes.

[Griffin]

It's played at festivals. You have not seen it yet?

[David]

No, I didn't see. I'd like to see it.

[Griffin]

I don't know what he has lined up outside of seemingly returning to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[Matty Luchansky]

No, what they got. They got their hooks back in.

[David]

Well, he's. He's very much like. As his, like, biceps and pecs are bulging out of his, like, T shirt.

[Matty Luchansky]

On, like the red carpet.

[David]

He's like, I don't think I'm gonna be in that one. And he's like God and Captain America. American shield, basically. I mean, maybe if they call me briefly, I might.

[Griffin]

He's wearing the mask.

[Matty Luchansky]

They've tattooed it on his face. He shaved his head. Yeah.

[David]

He's in the Romaine Gavs film Sacrifice, which was at tiff, which, with Anya Taylor.

[Griffin]

I don't know much about two festival movies that haven't premiered yet. Right? Yeah.

[David]

Chris Evans. Do we like him in this movie? The thing about him in this movie in which he plays a sort of, as you say, religious cult leader, the televangelisty sort of like thing, but the.

[Griffin]

Movie introduces you to him misbehaving before you even see him at the pulpit. It is front loaded with.

[Matty Luchansky]

You just gave me a look that I cannot describe why you said that.

[Griffin]

He's got like a strip mall church that is really a front for a drug operation where they're funneling money from the friends, but also four way church or something. Four way.

[Matty Luchansky]

Oh, God.

[David]

And go ahead, finish your thought. And then I have a thought.

[Griffin]

He also loves to. And he. Everybody. And it's basically a sex.

[Matty Luchansky]

He makes all the female parishioners wear like chain bikinis under their robes and.

[Ben Hasley]

He directs them during sex.

[David]

Doesn't this all feel very like 80s 90s kind of humor about like televangelists and CD priests and very tired? And you're like that thing of like, what you don't know is like religious people can be hypocrites. And I'm like, yeah, we know that. Like, like that's. That is done and dusted.

[Griffin]

That is old news. JJ did not do a dossier for this fire.

[David]

Exactly. But because we told him not to do it. But was reverse psychology. We wanted him to do it.

[Griffin]

Yeah. And he failed the test.

[David]

Exactly.

[Matty Luchansky]

I was hoping to see the giant book get opened up, but I guess.

[Griffin]

Yeah, no, I'm sorry. It's on the shelf this week. But I. There were changes made to this versus the driveway doll script remaining untouched and kept as a period piece. Right, right. This was a script that they wrote that she wrote in at an earlier point.

[David]

I believe all of these, including, you know, Beaver Parade.

[Griffin]

Go Beavers doesn't have a script. I have to remind you told me.

[Matty Luchansky]

Personally, it's not written.

[Griffin]

It's an idea.

[David]

There may be a. A like a treatment or sketch out there somewhere. Right. Like, it wasn't just that someone was like, go Beavers. And they were like, put a pin in that.

[Matty Luchansky]

They said that they had the ideas down, but they hadn't cracked it yet. I was like, what are you possibly going to call Craig?

[Griffin]

That's my only question is, was this written in full in like 2002 and then dusted off and like Covid reference, You know, updated.

[Matty Luchansky]

The COVID reference. They talked about it specifically at the bot. Because it bothered me.

[David]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Because that it's again, attention to detail. Shit. That was driving me insane.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Where it's like, again. And like in Driveway Dolls, my lovely wife, who was a food writer, pointed this out to me. They order a. In the 90s, they would have ordered a plush wine.

[Griffin]

That's a good call.

[Matty Luchansky]

Mistake that the brothers together did not make.

[David]

Right.

[Matty Luchansky]

And then it's like, I don't give that much of a shit, but it does. Like, whatever.

[David]

And then your wife is obviously one of the best food writers.

[Matty Luchansky]

She's America's best food writer, in my opinion.

[David]

So bless her for noticing these things.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yes. And then in this movie, the COVID thing is like, Billy Eichner, if he's that guy that they say he is, which is like a weird joke that I don't care about, and it's not very good.

[Griffin]

His character is introduced as a client who is methodically wiping off the chair in her office before he sits in. And he turns to her and goes, like, can't be too careful still.

[Matty Luchansky]

Everywhere. And he's like. If he was actually that kind of, like, very cautious person about COVID he would be wearing a mask that is.

[David]

You're right. That it is bizarre and lazy. Exactly right.

[Matty Luchansky]

And they. And the joke is in there. They said, because.

They wanted people to know that it was not a period piece off the bat.

[David]

Okay.

[Matty Luchansky]

It is there to serve a function, not to actually be funny.

[Griffin]

There are other ways you can.

[David]

I. Nope. There's no other way. Actually, the only way.

[Matty Luchansky]

IPhone. All the time.

[David]

Time.

Someone look at a calendar.

I'm always looking at calendars, paper calendars.

[Matty Luchansky]

I'm always. When I greet my friends, I'm always saying the dates to them.

[David]

I'm always like. And as we all know, it's 2025.

[Matty Luchansky]

How's your November 4th going?

[Griffin]

You are right, David, that watching this film, you're like, this does feel like a script that has been sitting on a dusty shelf for 25 years. And that you're like, yeah, we've kind of move past this surface level takedown of.

[Matty Luchansky]

Of.

[Griffin]

Do you know that some Christians are actually bad?

[David]

Again, I'm not. I'm not saying that Christians are good or that Christians are above reproach in cinematic satire. I'm more just kind of like, did you know priests can be horny and nefarious? Doesn't feel shocking. A lot of this film really seems to think that I am going to be like, I cannot believe that Chris Evans is ladies in this movie.

[Griffin]

75% of his screen time is probably in that bed. Somebody.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right. Or nude, arguing.

[David]

He is often in the buff or in tighty whities of some sort.

[Griffin]

Here's my core complaint, and I buy it more for this character than Materialist, where he is playing a struggling theater actor with integrity who doesn't want to sell out.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

I think Chris Evans has gotten too obsessed with the self manicuring. I'm sure he's spending a million dollars on physical upkeep a day. Right. He looks incredible.

[David]

Like it too profit, not profitable. But he is a million a day.

[Matty Luchansky]

Almost a lot of money.

[David]

52 million.

[Griffin]

He's almost getting to a point where I'm just like $65 million.

[David]

Chris, it looks.

[Matty Luchansky]

What?

[David]

Sorry.

[Griffin]

It looks like his beard is being lined up in between words.

[David]

I think his beard is a little too perfectly cropped and I just took.

[Griffin]

Two years of it. Every time he shows up, I'm just like, you look too good now. It's not a genetic thing. The hair is too well maintained. Your muscles are too perfect, your chest is too shaved, the beard lines are too clean. You know, whatever fucking dermatologist like regiment you have on or whatever work. I'm just like, you are starting to not feel like a real person. It perhaps works for Captain America, but yet I would argue part of what was so successful about him as Captain America is he somehow made that guy feel a little earthbound.

[Matty Luchansky]

And now he plays him so corny in a way that's like, like whatever, dumb. When he's like, oh, here's the movie of the list of movies I got to watch, it feels like, oh, like, here's like a human being.

[Griffin]

He's like starting to look like an anime hunk. And I'm truly just like, spend 15 minutes less in the makeup chair. Like if you're making an indie, just like, let it grow out a little bit. Yeah, cool it a little bit. I get that this guy is vain and self obsessed and would be this.

[David]

Well, it makes more I in Materialist.

[Griffin]

It. It bugged me more in Materialist. It bugged me in this. I'm just like.

[David]

But in Materialist it didn't matter because I just. When you were in his apartment and now I know he's poor. Sorry. It's my critique. It's one of my many critiques.

[Griffin]

It's a good movie. But I'm just like this Chris Evans, the actor has access to treatments that this character does not have.

[Matty Luchansky]

And a strip mall. Yeah. And Bakersfield. Yeah.

[Griffin]

I'll believe that he spends two hours in the mirror every day.

[David]

But I think what you're doing Is nitpicking. Honeydont. And you did it too. And I've done it already as well. We've all done it. And it's like, Driveway Dolls tries this, and this movie tries this too. This kind of like, fucking. This is a chill movie. This is a ramshackle little delight. Like, you know, we just threw this together. Stop being taking this so seriously. And in Driveway Dolls, I kind of roll with it. In this one, I don't so much. Partly because, as Maddie pointed out, there's a lot of, like, grisly, kind of lurid stuff that, you know, I'm bouncing up against much, like, harder. And so I don't know.

[Griffin]

Because you want there to be a point to it. Every other time the clowns have done this, you're like, it is serving ultimately thematic concerns.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, it felt a little bit like watching those, like, in the early 2000s, there were a lot of those, like.

[Griffin]

Pitch black comedies, Tarantino kind of crime murder comedies.

[David]

And they'll spend a night at McCool.

[Matty Luchansky]

That's correct. And the whole time that those movies are always going, like, staring at you down the barrel of the camera, being. Being like. And we're having fun, right? You're having fun. It's wacky and fun.

[Griffin]

What, are you offended?

[David]

I mean, honestly, are you bad at.

[Matty Luchansky]

What happened to Smoochie?

[David]

And I'm like, I'm poor Smoochie. Death has happened to him. Well, like, death is being threatened.

[Matty Luchansky]

This movie's giving death to Smoochie a little bit to me, where it's like.

[David]

A movie that Griffin defense.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

A movie that I liked a lot when I saw it, when I was. What year did that come out?

[David]

2002. And, Maddie, I was right there with you. I think very similar ages. And I was also. I was. Was like, this is twisted. This is dark.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's twisted. I get that.

[David]

That's. That's transgressive. And I'm supposed to be like, good.

[Griffin]

I. I will say I rewatched it recently.

[Matty Luchansky]

I also hate Society.

[Griffin]

I rewatched it recently. I still like it. There is no question that the best time to watch Death to Smoochie is when you are a teenager. Never hit as hard as the ages from 13 to 18. Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

But, like, there's like, am I wrong here? It's got like. I was trying to, like, think of more examples of funitis, but, like, this is a thing that sometimes movies do. And, like, I think Driveway Dolls also did it to some extent, which is just like, it's Fun.

[Griffin]

But we put it up against this with Lady Killers, which is like, another.

[Matty Luchansky]

Murder, which I've not seen because I'm afraid of it.

[Griffin]

But. But is a movie that very much, like, maintains the, like, this is fun energy.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And, like, honey don't. It, like, has these moments of, like, her talking to her sister. You know, like the. The runner having his mother attacked. Like, these things where you're like. Like, it's slowing down. It's like investing in character. It's not trying to maintain this, like, come on, don't take any of it seriously thing, which makes you want to believe it is building up to some ultimate point.

[Matty Luchansky]

Bur.

[Griffin]

Ah, you know what? That's me reacting to, David.

[Matty Luchansky]

What?

[Griffin]

Cold mornings and holiday plans.

[David]

Ah, so you're cold and upset.

[Griffin]

Upset, scared, stressed. This is when I need my wardrobe to just work. It's the last thing I want to worry about when I'm dealing with my two greatest fears. Stuff that looks sharp, feels good, and I'll actually reach for. That's what I'm asking for, David. And that's why I go with quints. Plus, it makes gifting easy when everything's worth keeping for yourself. Now, usually we're dragging you out on a leash to do ads reads, but you said, oh, I got something for this.

[David]

Well, I recently shopped at Quint, which I do all the time, and I did get one of their Mongolian cashmere sweaters, which is mentioned here.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

In their ad copy, which are only $50. And literally, I gave someone a hug, and they were like, you're so soft. And I was like, I ain't soft, baby. Cashmere is.

[Griffin]

They. They hugged you and they went, that must have cost $200 or more. You said from. From rival retailers, but at Quint's only $50, plus wool coats that actually hold up to daily wear and still look good.

[David]

Here's the other thing I got, though. I recently upgraded my bed size.

[Griffin]

What?

[David]

To brag. Because of another sponsor we had.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

I won't mention. Right.

[Griffin]

Crossover event.

[David]

And so I needed a new comforter, and I was like, Quince's comforters. What if I got a down alternative comforter from Quince? And it's really, really, really nice. So nice. I'm upset to be here today. I'd much rather be under it in my bed.

[Griffin]

Alternative comforter. Does it have, like, a nose ring and it listens to, like, indie music? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Also, as well.

[David]

Okay, go ahead.

[Griffin]

Comforter. Because I. Some of these rival companies. It's more like an Uncomforter.

[David]

So true.

[Griffin]

Anyway, the alternative thing and then stop there. That was a better bet. Yeah.

[David]

Hugely affordable. It was extreme. Came right away. It's really nice. Every time I shop at Quint, I am impressed. And I just want you to get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with quints. Don't wait. Go to quints.com check for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too.

[Griffin]

Canada too.

[David]

That's q u I n c-e.com check free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com check.

[Griffin]

David?

[David]

Yep.

[Griffin]

Oh, wait, hold on one second.

Just here.

[David]

Where did it go?

[Ben Hasley]

Griffin, what are you looking for?

[Griffin]

Well, it's just I lost sight of my money and financial responsibility this time of year. This always happens every end of the year. I'm rushing out of the house. Keys. Got them. Wallet, Cell phone. Glasses. But where's my money and financial responsibility?

[David]

Well, Griffin, if you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you need to be using Monarch, rated Wall Street Journal's best budgeting app of 2025. Monarch is the all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or your phone. And right now, for our listeners, Monarch is offering 50% off your first year. And of course, they're helping to keep Godzilla and his other monsters under control.

[Griffin]

Yes, and we salute John Goodman and Kurt Russell. Yes, and Wyatt Russell is young Kurt Russell. And maybe Anders home as young John Good Goodman. Oh, and maybe Joe Morton as old Corey Hawkins. Monarch exists in two timelines.

[David]

Vaguely aware. Yes, it is hard to keep, you know, your. Your money, your. Your credit cards, your bank accounts.

[Griffin]

Hard to keep these things under control. I wish it was as simple as. As raising Mogwai.

[David]

Exactly.

[Griffin]

They only have three rules. Money has like infinite rules.

[David]

A different kind of monster that, that you're bringing into the ad read right now.

[Griffin]

But I fold it into the Monarch.

[Matty Luchansky]

Good one.

[David]

You're folding it in like, you know, like baking.

[Griffin]

Exactly. Folded.

[David]

If you can, you know, do some holiday budgeting with Monarch, you can see all your travel and gift expenses. You can see how they add up, what you need to budget for. You can create a sort of holiday spending category so you don't start the new year with a debt hangover. You can link everything into Monarch Investments, 401ks property value so you can get your true net worth rather than just googling your name. Plus my net worth, which is often.

[Griffin]

Inaccurate, I have found. Yes. Although for me, they say like $5,000.

[David]

For you it's just a moth flies, it's a barrel.

Yeah. My partner and I use it for recurring money check ins. Reviewing the dashboard for just a couple minutes a week to stay on top of everything easily.

[Ben Hasley]

So.

[David]

So it's built for people with busy lives. If you've put off organizing your finances, Monarch is for you. It's going to do all the heavy lifting. Give you clear data, visuals on all your accounts. Smart categorization of your spending, real control over your money. You'll never need to touch a spreadsheet again.

[Griffin]

Thank God, because I'm allergic.

[David]

Exactly. That's you touching a spreadsheet.

[Griffin]

Break out in hives.

[David]

So don't let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. You use code checkonarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with code check.

[Griffin]

The end of this movie just to like skip ahead, right?

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

The basic setup of this movie is honey.

[David]

I mean this get the premise is that Honey gets a fucking case. People are dying, girls are getting killed. What's going on?

[Griffin]

The woman who had hired her shows up dead in a car crash.

[David]

It's a classic fucking Raymond Chandler y kind of setup. It's like she, you know, like it's.

[Matty Luchansky]

The case she does.

[David]

She should stop sniffing around. But it's because it's intriguing, Right?

[Griffin]

Right. Charlie Day is a local cop who has a big crush on her very nuanced performance.

[Matty Luchansky]

The thing is about I've been over 20 years of watching Mr. Day on my screen. Both large and small. Same I've inculcated to his fucking shit. Every time he's on screen, I'm having a ball. He makes a problem I have with this movie is that most of the jokes are not very funny. He has the one thing that made me laugh so hard in the last scene of the film where he says sex. Hookers. It made me laugh and I was like, you know what? Against my better judgment, I laughed at that joke. And you know what? I'm laughing.

[David]

I also Turner Leigh, AKA Luigi, AKA Luigi, is a funny guy. And I'm pretty much always rooting for him despite the fact that he is insanely rich. And I do not need to root for he's fine.

[Griffin]

He does not need my help.

[Matty Luchansky]

Once he's fine, if you are quiet for even a moment, he'll die.

If you listen to. All right, now believe in TR Day, please clap.

[David]

I'm not sure he's going to make the Same joke. Not trying to talk, but I do think he seems like the most sort of level and chill of the sunny. Guys like, oh, by a country seem like they've got stuff. You know, they're hardworking guys. They make their show. They do Glenn Howard, Waterloo, where the vampires hang out. And he crushed that.

[Matty Luchansky]

I love, loved it.

[David]

And Rob Mack, I believe.

[Griffin]

Stop. Don't say any more. Heart breaks on that name. Do you know about this, Ben?

[David]

No, I also don't know about this Rob McElhaney. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[Matty Luchansky]

Jeez.

[Griffin]

Not to dead name him, but he was born Rob McElhenny and for the 25 years of his career, that is the name he has gone by, credited that way.

[David]

And on many episodes of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, his good show.

[Griffin]

A show he not only stars in.

[David]

But he created and owns. Yes, yes.

[Griffin]

He becomes best friends with Ryan Reynolds. Funniest you might have heard this, but.

[David]

They own a soccer team.

[Matty Luchansky]

He's married to that girl from age of Adeline. Right, yes, sorry. Yeah, I heard about the soccer team.

[Griffin]

And it does feel like he's become somewhat infected by the mogul brain of Ryan Reynolds and wanting to be like Ryan Reynolds, be kind of like a.

[David]

Sort of personality brand in a way that Ryan Reynolds also is.

[Matty Luchansky]

He's doing like the. A more successful run of what Ashton Kutcher was attempting 15 years ago.

[Griffin]

Yes, yes, yes. And remember that when he was the.

[David]

Most followed person on Twitter. Yes, I do.

[Matty Luchansky]

And he was like starting tech companies or whatever. Yeah.

[Griffin]

It's also funny that he was like the person who basically minted Twitter and then he had one bad tweet that was like, oh, no, they fired Joe. Paul, what happened?

[Matty Luchansky]

Do you mean actually everything app?

[Griffin]

Yeah. Do you remember this?

[Matty Luchansky]

I do.

[David]

I do not remember that he was going to the map for Paterno because.

[Griffin]

He didn't know yet about the sand dust. He saw the headline Joe Paterno out, and he didn't read the rest of the story and people attacked him in the comments and he went, got it. I will never tweet again. He actually credit right where the first time Twitter bit him, he was like, never mind. Look out.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay.

[Griffin]

But anyway, that's really good advice. Over the summer, Rob McElhinney. I think it's like People magazine or someone breaks that. He has legally filed a name change position petition. Petition, right to be Rob Mack, period, legally. And people are like, what the is going on? And then he posts like a 15 minute video.

[David]

A real with this is the real Ryan Reynolds energy. This video where he's. I don't know if it's actually.

[Griffin]

Maybe it's five, but it's one of those like, hey, it felt like an.

[David]

My name, you know, is. You know, I have Irish ancestors and like it's been spelled all kinds of ways and it's confusing and no one knows how to pronounce like. Right. That's kind of his argument.

[Griffin]

His argument is I now do a of lot lot of global business and people in other cultures have a difficult time pronouncing my name. And I have lost hours of my life where I could be making money correcting people on my name. That's actually the jokey kind of explanation he gives is like if you add up every time I've been in a meeting with someone and I've had to say it's pronounced McElhenny.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

Over. Over years, that is 500 hours that I could have been meeting with VC.

[David]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

As someone with an actually hard to pronounce last name.

[David]

Lubchansky.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's Lubchansky.

[David]

Sorry.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's okay. You know what?

[Griffin]

Point proven.

[Matty Luchansky]

I don't care. I'm not changing my name to Matty Lub.

[David]

Exactly.

[Matty Luchansky]

Well, I'm just gonna say my culture is not your costume. Rob Mack.

[Griffin]

But his argument of time is money and I'm missing out on deals. And then it's just that video and his wife who he has multiple children with is like, our children have your name and you didn't talk to us about this.

[David]

Sounds like a normal relationship with.

[Griffin]

Your name is Rob Mack and their McClenney.

[Matty Luchansky]

It sounds like the video of that one entrepreneur guy that's like my days are cut into six hour chunks.

[David]

Yes. What it's like, I love that guy.

[Matty Luchansky]

I love that you've seen that video.

[David]

Where he like takes baths and bottled.

[Matty Luchansky]

Water three weeks from now. I've killed you. I've eaten you. The video, incredible.

[Griffin]

The video has the energy of like I inject my son's blood into my penis to stay young. Like these insane fucking like biohacking like grindset tech bro shit.

[Ben Hasley]

He doesn't have to do the legal change.

[David]

He can just tell people nobody has to do any. Honestly, the. The answer to most things of late is you didn't. You don't have to do.

[Griffin]

Just call me Rob.

[Matty Luchansky]

This is, this is. This is the, the, you know, the worldwide phenomenon of everyone is 12 now.

[David]

I believe this is.

Why can't I just be 12?

[Matty Luchansky]

Why can't I just be 12?

[David]

But anyway, and again, I want to be clear, Rob Mac has made things that I that amuse me. Yes, I enjoyed Mythic Quest. I haven't watched the latest season. I feel like everyone fell off with Mythic Quest, but there was a time when I enjoyed Mythic Quest. Yeah, I'm sure Rexam FC is doing fine. I haven't checked the standings.

[Griffin]

You're right though, that Charlie Day seems to be very at peace with himself from the out.

[David]

He made his passion project and everyone was like, eh. And he was like, anyway, yeah, I'll.

[Matty Luchansky]

Show up and be f I'll be Charlie Day for five minutes in your film.

[David]

This feels like the kind of thing of like, again, great. If you gotten the call from E10 Cohen and he was like, hey, do you want to do some in my bad movie, honey, don't. You would have been like, absolutely. That's what he worked with a co brother.

[Griffin]

I I, I'm mean his performance, Chris Evans performance, and Aubrey PL's Aubrey Plaza's performance in particular have the energy of. I've always wanted to be in a coincidental movie.

[David]

I've always wanted to be in a Con Brothers movie. And I read this script two seconds ago.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right.

[David]

I would say it's those two things.

[Griffin]

And I'm worried that this is the closest I'll ever get.

[David]

I could turn this, take my chance.

[Griffin]

Well, what if they never get back together again?

[Matty Luchansky]

And like you're playing a sleazy priest in a Coen's Brothers movie. A Coen movie. Right. Is like, so if again, that part I think would be better if it had any jokes that were funny or if any dialogue that was even medium interesting or good.

[Griffin]

It is such a first draft character. It never goes beyond what he is revealed to be immediately. And then it's just a repetition of the beat, which I think he plays fairly well.

[David]

I think the more they repeat it, kind of the funnier it is in a way because you're especially as the movie gets darker, you're like, oh, here's Charlie doing that again. Okay.

[Matty Luchansky]

When Chris Evans shows up in church and there's like the big photos of him behind him.

[David]

Yes.

[Matty Luchansky]

I'm like, it got a small chuckle from me the first time, the first time I saw it.

[Griffin]

Same.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I do feel like if he had figured out a way to add a a dollop of real menace to this performance, it would have been a little interesting. But also this movie kind of shrugs and goes, this guy doesn't fucking matter. He's shot off screen after being forced to perform the heinous crime of cunnilingus upon a woman.

[Matty Luchansky]

Awful.

[Griffin]

I do kind of like that scene. I'm sorry, I was going by the DJ Khaled playbook there. I do kind of like that scene of his final.

Sex scene is with the French drug Nepo Queen.

[David]

Correct.

[Matty Luchansky]

Whose name is French for honey, isn't it?

[David]

What is her name?

[Griffin]

Is her name Miel?

[Matty Luchansky]

Miel, which is French for honey.

[Griffin]

That is French.

[David]

You're correct.

[Griffin]

You're right.

[Matty Luchansky]

The last beat of the movie where.

[Ben Hasley]

They say that she asked for sex American style and he says missionary, which makes me wonder, then how do French heterosexual people have sex?

[David]

The joke is that missionary is the most boring position. And Americans are boring French people, of course. Yeah. They just kind of like blow cigarette and smoke at each other.

[Griffin]

Right, Duchenne.

[David]

What's that? What's that now? He was trying to do a little death of dog. He just said dog orgasm.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay.

[Griffin]

No, what I. Yeah, that is what I said. I tried to say sex doggy style. Well, but you're right that what I said was closer to. That's not a closer to.

[David]

It's a euphemism for orgasm.

[Griffin]

Kind of. Kind of out.

[David]

My. My favorite French euphemism is. And I'm not sure if this is still true. People can let me know. I haven't lived in France a long time. Is that you call a come stain a cart de France because the map of France kind of looks like a.

[Griffin]

You could say that about kind of any map.

[Matty Luchansky]

France is very hexagonal.

[David]

It's very cum. Stan.

[Matty Luchansky]

I was going to say, like. You can't say that about. About like Chile.

[David]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Is something wrong with you?

[Griffin]

I think one could come.

[Matty Luchansky]

A boot.

[David]

All right. Well, all right. We do a side podcast. Coming Shapes.

What's going on?

[Griffin]

This is a side podcast.

[Ben Hasley]

No, I'm not sure that's sustainable. We go country to country.

[David]

I would say Country Coming Shapes is about the least podcast friendly thing possible.

[Griffin]

Sure.

[David]

Like in audio form or like, kind of looks like a boot.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Guys, I wish you could see this one.

[David]

Can I pivot to something way, way less controversial?

[Griffin]

I just wanted to say.

[David]

Damn it. I was gonna do a good joke.

[Griffin]

Okay. What's your joke?

[David]

You ever seen I Love you, Daddy? The Louis CK movie.

[Griffin]

Charlie Day's in that.

[David]

Charlie Day is in that. Playing kind of the same role. Sure.

[Matty Luchansky]

Charlie Day.

[David]

Exactly. Like where it's just kind of like every. Why won't you fuck me Every so often he Just shows up to be kind of lewd and like that. Yes. And it's sort of the same like, hey, this movie kind of needs like a slap on the cheeks like for 20 minutes every time the camera fucking.

[Matty Luchansky]

Screams, like tracks into the room and he's doing this with his hands and he yells her name every time I'm like, I'm having a good time.

[Griffin]

He does, he does, I will say the least annoying version of his bit that he keeps not, not even not getting the hint, but just refusing to accept that she is not sexually attracted to men every time he quote unquote, politely asks her out on a date. Right. And he does play it so guilelessly that the bit isn't creepy or annoying. It is kind of harmless and funny.

[David]

It's kind of like, oh, you.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, like as like. And sort of like thematically it almost works as you were talking about before, if like the thing is like the way in which men control women's lives.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[Matty Luchansky]

The first interaction you see her have is him hitting on her.

[Griffin]

Right?

[Matty Luchansky]

Right. And it's also the last interaction she has with someone who is not the girl on the motorcycle.

[Griffin]

That even in a non threatening way, his relationship to her is completely transactional of all of his kind of cooperation with her. Her is based on when will she agree to go get dinner with me? And when she explains to him why she won't, he goes like, you always say that.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Which is kind of funny. But yes, it, it's, it's all about, yes. A woman trying to find an identity that is removed from all these kind.

[David]

Of, kind of Honey, kind of Chris.

[Griffin]

Evans final sex scene. He is having sex based on her direction. She is the one giving the commands, telling him what to do. And then he afterwards says, that was the best sex ever. I like a woman who can take charge. There's some subversion. And then she shoots him in the head.

[David]

Bam.

[Griffin]

While Honey is parked outside or pulling up to his congregation. I should mention the other. The other plot I'm on here is Tali Rider as her niece.

[David]

Right. So you got this kind of like domestic plot line and this murder mystery plot line in parallel. So yes, Talia Ryder is the niece.

[Griffin]

She goes missing.

[David]

What's the character's name? Corinne.

[Griffin]

Right. She's running away from her abusive boyfriend. She doesn't want her mom to find out and say, I told you so. Honey is kind of like helping shield her. She goes to a bus stop, she's creeped out by an old man who she doesn't know Is her grandfather, played by.

[David]

That actor is named Cale Brown.

[Griffin]

I think he's quite good in his.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, he is.

[David]

He's got good face.

[Griffin]

Real scene. But she's now a second missing person. Are these things connected? And Honey believes that she must have been abducted by Chris Evans and his sex cult. But in fact act. Chris Evans is shot dead by the French sort of emissary.

For this drug operation.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's clearly them being like, ah, femme fatale. Get it? Yeah.

[David]

I mean, having her be French does not make sense.

[Matty Luchansky]

And it's like the French are running this drug church out of Bakersfield.

[David]

What if they wanted to be on the East Coast? That seems like a long way to go.

[Griffin]

I think the.

[David]

I'm just. I'm just.

[Griffin]

I agree with you.

[David]

I'm sorry to poke.

[Matty Luchansky]

They worked backwards from the Vespa. Clearly. They worked backwards from like, here's a lady wearing all one pattern.

[David]

Wouldn't that be funny?

[Griffin]

Incredible. She holds the screen.

[Matty Luchansky]

I'm not very hot lady.

[Griffin]

I'm not. Not enjoying myself anytime she's in the movie. But it's adding to the. Where is all of this going? Right? Honey pulls up, she hears a gunshot. Chris Evans has been shot. They don't show her discovering the body or anything like that.

[Matty Luchansky]

She also sees a motorcycle pull away from the gunshot. And she's like. Like, maybe I should see where she's going.

[Griffin]

She's like, huh? And that's the second point in the movie where she's sort of like driven past this woman. Right? But hasn't really engaged with her.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's clearly blind to her as a suspect because she wants to have sex with her.

[Griffin]

Right? And then I'm trying to remember how she figures out that in fact Aubrey Plaza is the one.

[Matty Luchansky]

She just goes over to her house because she's like, I know a cop.

[Griffin]

Can actually help me follow up.

[David]

It is truly right. She just checks in and Aubrey Plaza is like, FYI, it was me all along.

[Griffin]

And Aubrey Plaza's like, you hate me because I'm poor. Right? I bet you hate my house.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. And she's like, I'm from Bakersfield too.

[Griffin]

Right? And then Aubrey Plaza goes like full kind of like serial killer mode. Like Pamela Voorhees.

[Matty Luchansky]

Quali sees Honey. Honey Quali and sees two cups of tea and is like, who are you making tea for?

[David]

And Honey. Sorry. Quali and Plaza. Honey and MG have been the whole movie. But it's this kind of like forbidden off on like sort of.

Quasi relation.

[Griffin]

I think those scenes are all very good. And are kind of the closest this movie has to having any real emotion.

[Matty Luchansky]

There's the scene where they are, like, basically having sex in the bar in front of all the male cops is, like, good and, like, interesting. It's like, yeah, these men would not notice. And it's like, it is interesting in a little bit and it is hot. I think.

[Griffin]

I agree.

[Matty Luchansky]

But then it gets to the pro. Another problem I have with both this movie and the last one is, does Ethan think gay people are funny? I don't know. I. There's some things in here where it's like, there was a bit while they were talking when I heard them talking after the movie that I saw where they were like, there's that scene right after they have sex where Honey is like, cleaning all the dildos and shit. And they were talking about, like, the only argument they had while filming it was like, some. They'd have whatever. They were editing, editing it. And even wanted to hold longer on the sex toy cleaning because he thought it was really funny. And then Trisha says, but he doesn't understand, as lesbians, sex toys are sacred to us. And I was like, okay, one of you thinks this is too funny, and.

[David]

One of you thinks this is too serious. You're both horseshoeing over here. Like, let's relax. They're just dildo.

[Griffin]

I feel like perhaps a sort of double pronged thing happening here, much like a double sided dildo.

[Matty Luchansky]

Great segue.

[Griffin]

Thank you. In their split up, it does seem clear that Ethan's the horny one of the Cohen brothers. Right?

[David]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

I. My. My stupid letterbox review of Driveway Dolls was like, okay, the big experiment's over. Now we know which cone is which. Like, let's get a pizza in here and get them back together.

[Griffin]

It is frustrating how much this movie plays into the narrative of now we can divorce. Provide the interests and the skill sets.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. Which the whole thing was that they were supposed to be like, this, like, complete, singular unit that worked so well without speaking. Right.

[Griffin]

Like, I think they are. And I think to some degree versus, like, we will see what this second Joel movie is like. Right. But Joel feels. Seems to be taking their sabbatical from working together as well. Let me explore parts of myself as a director that I never explored and treat them with the same level of seriousness as our work together. And Ethan seems to be specifically on a mission of, I want to not take this stuff as seriously anymore.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. You know, and like, you know, Joel had the co writer too. Which was in Shakespeare.

[Griffin]

He did.

[Matty Luchansky]

He's From England.

[Griffin]

I think Bill did a pass on that script.

[David]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

The new film.

[David]

De Blasio.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Big, big Bill.

[Matty Luchansky]

Big Bill de Blasio himself.

[Griffin]

The new script, there's like not much known about. I think everyone sort of assumes it's a solo writing credit, but no one really knows.

[Matty Luchansky]

What if he started writing it with Fran just to like even it out?

[David]

That would be funny.

[Griffin]

I don't know. I don't know.

[David]

I don't. No.

[Griffin]

We talk about this in our Driveway Dolls episode, which will have come out, but you have not heard that Trisha Cook was very outspoken when she was promoting Driveway Dolls. Where that script came from. And the sort of reignited passion to finally put this thing into production is that especially at the time she started writing this in the 90s, if there was like gay cinema in America and especially lesbian cinema, it was almost always very serious, very tragic.

[Matty Luchansky]

And she's right. I don't disagree.

[David]

Hard to live life.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Coming out stories, getting murdered stories, even.

[Griffin]

If it wasn't traumatic. It was about adversity. You know, it was about processing shame and fighting for happiness and whatever. And she wanted to. The whole, whole thought experiment of these lesbian B movie trilogy of riffs is can I like remove any sense of self importance from lesbian storytelling? Can I make lesbian movies that are allowed to just be like dumb and messy? Right. But this movie is like.

Touching third rails or at least like trying to touch serious subjects. It's identifying where serious subjects are pointing at them and saying, but I don't want to talk about that.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

In a way. And I think it extends to the representation of sex, which she's just like, I want to show these things on screen in a way that is not the male gaze.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And that normalizes it. Right. And that also allows it to be funny, but in a way that isn't a punchline. But I do think the balance is kind of off here.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. Just something feels a little too much like. You think the fact just the movie seems to think that it is like a little bit funny when two women are having sex. Sex. To me, a little bit. I don't know.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Yes. And I think like, I think Driveway.

[Matty Luchansky]

Dolls, which is to be clear, it is deadly serious.

[Griffin]

Of course.

[David]

Sex is very serious.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's very. I'm very, very serious.

[David]

Stone faced. It's sort of like I'm like the. The emoji that's just like line, line.

[Matty Luchansky]

I'm wearing. I'm wearing the gloves that go up to your elbows and a full ball gown.

[Griffin]

When I'm very serious. The whole time?

[David]

Yes, whole time.

[Griffin]

I think Driveway Dolls.

Like, abstracts its sex scenes to the point of almost feeling like Three Stooges routines. Where it is successful in being like, we are working past this being erotic. That this is just eye candy for, like, young dudes.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

By making it so silly that it's hard to kind of objectify it in that sense. And I think this movie. Movie. By having scenes where there actually is some sense of palpable connection.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Between her and Aubrey Plaza that has played somewhat real. And there's sort of this sort of ticking clock within the movie of. These are two women who are afraid of commitment. They, like, you know, they, like, fuck and move on. And they're acknowledging that they're worried about having to hit the end point of disconnecting from each other because they don't want to accidentally land in something that feels more serious and committed. That these are people who try to live without attachments.

[Matty Luchansky]

And it feels like it's there already. I thought they were pretty good together in a way that. Yeah.

[Griffin]

And, you know, the introduction of Honey is her in bed with a woman getting the call and saying, like, lock.

[Matty Luchansky]

The door on your way.

[Griffin]

Right, right. That she just is really like, I'm moving on. And by comparing notes and revealing that they have the same kind of relationship to relationships, they are unlocking a new level of vulnerability in each other that sort of scares the two of them.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And is interesting. And then the movie responds by saying, actually, she's insane.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

We're gonna throw hot tea in her face and turn her into, like a scarred Bond villain.

[David]

Yeah. She becomes kind of a Bond villain.

[Griffin]

Who you have to murder.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I feel like.

[David]

Yes.

[Matty Luchansky]

They just don't seem to have that good of a grasp on her own material. I don't know.

[Griffin]

There is a version of this ending that does not redeem this movie for me. But where Margaret Cawley shows up, puts it together, sees her. Aubrey Plaza just breaks down emotionally. Rather than going full fucking supervillain mode.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

Full actual psycho and being like, you've discovered my scheme. I must fight you to the death.

[David]

Yeah. It's a little scuba. Except with it feels very lesbian murderer. Yes.

[Griffin]

That she's sort of like. I don't know. It got out of hand.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Right. That you almost, like, try to deal with the delayed, like, time release trauma of this woman and what she's gone through and, like, her needing to confess this to someone who she's actually let in emotionally.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. And that still needs More like something earlier in the movie. Clue you in that this lady is perhaps kidnapping people and putting on her.

[Griffin]

And it would be hard to pull off in terms of the aforementioned tone management that this movie does not totally have under control. But it feels like the kind of ending that would at least make this film feel like it had something to say.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, it would have functioned a little better.

[Griffin]

Something on its mind versus it feels like such an easy out to be like. Well, that didn't like, mean anything. Chris Evans didn't kidnap her. She did. Kidnapping, kidnap the honey's original client. She solved that, but he's already dead, so there's nothing she can do about it. She retrieved her niece, who's now back home. You have the kind of one moment of her waking up in the hospital to her sister and the niece being like, thank you so much, Bow. Tied on that honey drives off, sees the French lady on a Vespa. Basically, they're each other with their eyes.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Movie over. So now she's gonna get in bed with a different criminal.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

What. What was the point of any of this?

[Matty Luchansky]

It's a really good question.

[Griffin]

Women be out here doing it for themselves.

[Matty Luchansky]

Women. Okay, that is true.

[Griffin]

It is true.

[David]

It's a crazy world out there. And Honey will always be getting a coffee with her trusty assistant, what's her pants. And solving the next case and fingering a lady. And I. I don't know.

[Griffin]

I like the assistant.

[Matty Luchansky]

Keep going, keep going.

[David]

The dust will be blowing down Bakersfield Avenue.

[Ben Hasley]

She'll be flicking through that Rolodex.

[Griffin]

It's not the only thing she's flicking through.

[David]

I like.

[Griffin]

I have to say, I like the assistant character. And I do like that dynamic, to your cosplaying point of like, she's almost like, honey, like, you're doing like, the bit. Why do you still have a Rolodex? Why are you asking me for coffee as if we're in, like, some fucking 50s TV show?

[Matty Luchansky]

She looks like a lesbian from the year 2025. She' like a Wild Fang shirt on. Like, she's. Yeah.

[David]

Her name is Gabby Beans.

[Griffin]

Good name.

[David]

Yeah, Great name.

[Matty Luchansky]

That. That makes sense because she's really obsessed with the coffee.

[Griffin]

Hey, now, that's a good point. What were you about to say, David?

[Matty Luchansky]

My incredible job.

[David]

She was. She's in the upcoming Steven Spielberg film, which we love to see.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

And she was in. In Romeo and Juliet with. With our friend Rachel.

[Griffin]

Oh, the Broadway production. On Broadway.

[Matty Luchansky]

Oh, okay.

[David]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

Even just like the opening credits for this, which I think is kind of a cool visual idea of the cast appearing as signage on closed down businesses.

[Matty Luchansky]

Rip that off from city. They said they might have. Yeah, I think so.

[Griffin]

And I'm just like. It's kind of just executed sloppily.

[Matty Luchansky]

Can I say something about that? Not to. Not to keep being like. And I was at the talk back. But the only three things I remember have all come up. The last one is that they said they had to go film that twice because they fucked up the first time they filmed it. It's the things you always hear about the Coen brothers when there's two of them instead of just one, is that they don't. They are like. They're like the tightest sets you've ever heard of. Right? And nothing. There's no mistakes. There's no wasted shots. There's no wasted time. And they had to go film. They. They wasted a day filming the wrong stuff, the wrong way to make the credits.

[Griffin]

Here's the shame. It also feels like they fucked it up the second time. It feels like they should have done it a third time because I like the idea. And it doesn't feel like they figured out the right way to make it.

[Matty Luchansky]

Just execute it badly or something. I don't know what the. Yeah.

[Griffin]

And someone was on our Reddit was sharing a story of working on a production with someone who worked on Llewyn Davis and asking them about working with the Cohens. And he was like, I got so many stories about how they're the fucking best. Right? Right. Like, as guys, as filmmakers, as bosses.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

But the. The anecdote that really stuck with me was he said he remembered looking at the shooting schedule and in their notes, it would say, like, you know, shot whatever, set up whatever three takes. And they'd be like, they're allotting three takes and they would get it in three, three takes. That they're so good at this that they basically can guess in terms of, like, how they get these movies made under schedule and under budget, which is always one of the most impressive things about them that they can correctly kind of eyeball. That might take six takes to get right. That one we can probably get in two. And he was like, they were basically always right about that.

[Matty Luchansky]

That's wild.

[Griffin]

And that's the. About them. That feels magical.

[David]

Magic.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right, Right.

[David]

Or just experience.

[Griffin]

But yeah. And then they split up and you're like, this is completely disappointing. What's going on here? Now, what's frustrating about the Go Beavers thing? If we can circle back Here.

[Matty Luchansky]

Sure. Go beavers.

[Griffin]

Is that when they do interviews now.

[David]

I just was frustrating is that kind of humor is sort of impenetrable to me.

[Griffin]

Here's a spoiler. I predict that movie will be about vaginas or boobs if your name is.

[David]

That would be a swerve.

[Griffin]

Possibly.

[David]

The beaver movie was about boobs.

[Griffin]

That's a twist at the end. The camera pans up.

[David]

Eyes up here, buddy.

[Griffin]

A little lower. Boobs down here.

[David]

My boobs are up here, buddy.

[Griffin]

When they do interviews, which they haven't done a ton of since they've been.

[David]

Split up, I bet they have both. I mean like Ethan and Trisha did nominal press for this movie. They did more press for Driveway Dolls because I think they wanted to really underline like Trisha was the co author of this for Honey Don't. I think no one was really barking up the tree anyway. I couldn't find a lot of reviews to that point.

[Griffin]

I, I bought the fucking Blu ray because I'm committed to the great project. To blank check this, this I, I, I struggle to even define the Criterion edition. You got this feels like a bootleg. The COVID feels like it was printed out on like an HP Envy 900. It's like the, the discard itself was like written on with a Sharpie. It has zero special features. The menu says play setup. It doesn't have a scene selection option selection.

[David]

I'm not kidding.

[Griffin]

Like it feels like it's a 1997 DVD.

[David]

Love it.

[Matty Luchansky]

Does it have a menu that like does anything?

[Griffin]

It has a menu that's just play and set up. And it's just this still image. And when you go to set up the only option is English subtitles.

[David]

Is music playing?

[Griffin]

No.

[Matty Luchansky]

The song Honey don't is not playing.

[Griffin]

No, nothing's playing. Right. There's an original song in this movie that's co written by Ethan, produced by Jack Antonoff and sung by Margaret Qualley and Talia Ryder. There are actually two songs that follow.

[David]

It's not a cover of the famous song Honey you don't that also plays.

[Griffin]

But there are two original songs in this movie. Right. That Ethan co wrote.

[Matty Luchansky]

Are they in the movie?

[Griffin]

Yep. There's one in a montage where she's driving around like interviewing suspects.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay.

[Griffin]

And watching.

[Matty Luchansky]

Oh, I thought that was just some bad song I never heard.

[Griffin]

Well.

[Matty Luchansky]

I guess it was a bad song I never heard.

[Griffin]

Watching it I was like this sounds like Margaret Qualley. And then I looked it up and I want to say it's called Odd Wad Wanker.

Yes.

[David]

Sorry. The other one's called in the sun she Lies.

[Griffin]

There's also another one. Her fake name is Lace Manhattan.

[David]

The other one's called My Little Black Star.

[Griffin]

Maybe I'm looking at the sound enormous. Are the pen names sake.

[David]

We gotta call it. I'm playing the box office.

[Matty Luchansky]

I know.

[Griffin]

I got so much more to say.

[Matty Luchansky]

This just feels like when you talk to like a 70 year old and they're like, my humor is a little body.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Like it's all. I don't know. It just feels like someone who thinks they are funnier than they are.

[Griffin]

I agree. The thing I was gonna say, he's famously funny.

[David]

He's one of the Coen brothers.

[Matty Luchansky]

There's only two. I know.

[Griffin]

I got tickets to see this play he's got running off Broadway right now. That's like three, one act. Everyone who's seen it has said is actually very good and funny. Aubrey Plaza's Dylan's in it. Dylan Galula, friend of the podcast. Yes. It's got a good. It's got a good cast and everyone says it's good. And I asked this two people who felt similar to me about Honey Don't. They were like, yeah, no, it's actually good. I'm not like grading it on a curve. So it's a little odd because he has done these side writing projects and they have worked on their own terms before.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. The thing I was gonna say grading people on Curves. Honey or Donnie.

[Griffin]

Hey.

In the interviews they have done, they're like, you know, we both felt burnout. We took some time. Ethan didn't really want to make stuff anymore. Joel said, maybe I do something on my own, but that we've just been out of sync, that they've been writing something together. But then it was like Honeydonk got greenlit. So then Joel started writing something else. And then by the time Honeydont came out and Joel was about to go into production on his movie. So now Ethan has to wait for Joel to be finished with his movie before they could make the next thing together. Where it's like, if they did Greenlight Go Beavers tomorrow, it might delay the reunion for another two years.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right.

[David]

Which was the last thing we need.

[Griffin]

They've been like alternating productions in a way that has fucked us.

[Matty Luchansky]

I'm getting older all the time. We all are.

[David]

Which is breaking. I didn't realize that was going to keep happening to me. And it does keep happening.

[Matty Luchansky]

I really thought. I'm very. I'm hitting a big roundish number this Saturday.

[Griffin]

This Saturday.

[David]

Okay. What are you doing leaving the country? Get the fuck out of here.

[Matty Luchansky]

You're not to going. Kidding. I'm gone.

[Griffin]

No spoilers. But is it an age that Judd Apatow's particularly obsessed with?

[Ben Hasley]

This is.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. For his film. This is 29. Yeah.

[David]

That's the roundest number.

[Matty Luchansky]

The nine is pretty round.

[David]

It's round.

[Griffin]

I'm realizing he has two titles with that age in it.

[Matty Luchansky]

Does he? Oh, he does.

[Griffin]

He does.

[Matty Luchansky]

40 year old virgin.

[David]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Wow.

[David]

You know what? How did that never occur to me before? Obviously I know the 40 year old virgin was kind of Carell's idea, but it is funny that he's hung up on 40.

[Matty Luchansky]

Well, you haven't.

[David]

He's like, you better have even either or become a millionaire by the age of 40.

[Griffin]

Two of his six movies are 40 pictures.

[Matty Luchansky]

Huh. Anyways, I, you know what? As it rapidly approaches for me, I kind of understand the man.

[David]

Sure.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Your next book is going to be. Are you ready to add to the 40 camera?

[Matty Luchansky]

Actually, you know what actually is up? The book I'm working on now, it's a lesbian road trip. Well, I'm not kidding. Well, so I'm challenging Ethan Cohen to single copy combat. I I with this book.

[Griffin]

I think this is a bar. You can clear.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, I'm. What I'm. What I'm hoping to do is I've put in actual jokes, so I'm hoping that does something about it.

[Griffin]

Interesting approach.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Sorry, you were saying something leading up to as you approach.

[Matty Luchansky]

Oh, I'm just saying I'm getting older all the time. They take two more years.

[Griffin]

Oh, oh, yes.

[David]

I'm gonna be around. And, and look, there's one interview I read with Ethan Trishan where Ethan and Trish, not Aoife and Trishan. What the is going on with me?

[Griffin]

I thought that's kind of a cute couple name for them.

[Matty Luchansky]

Ethan.

[David]

Right, Ethan.

Where you know, they're asked like, hey, so you're going to do that third movie? And they're like, oh, maybe like we, you know, we talk about that. We wrote a script with our kid, so maybe we do that.

[Matty Luchansky]

Or maybe.

[David]

And, and they also say and Ethan works with Joel and they're doing something and you're like, oh, that sounds good. And like again, I do not want to progress. The audience is going like people enjoying working with their kids. And it's not like that has never produced something interesting. It can, but it does sometimes feel a little.

[Matty Luchansky]

I would like you to name name a couple.

[David]

I Would probably have to do some strict googling and research to unearth the ones that are good.

[Griffin]

The George Miller movie where I always get the number wrong. 3,000 years of solitude.

[David]

Oh, that's right. But you know, he's fine. His kid, quote unquote, is, is old. Sure. No offense to that.

[Griffin]

You gotta have an old ass kid if you're gonna work.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[David]

You know, it can happen.

[Matty Luchansky]

Of course.

[David]

It's great. Oh, you collaborate with your kids.

[Griffin]

I. I want the Cohen's and their families to do whatever makes them happy. Joey.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

They have earned it. But I also agree with you that they are soon to both be in their 70s.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And the film culture has been lacking from their collaborations.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And when it was just, just the narrative of Ethan is tired. He wants a break. I'm like, by all means, take your break.

[David]

Take your break.

[Griffin]

But now that we're on the second Lark movie and in that time he has also produced An Evening of Theater, I'm like, it's not like you don't want to work.

[David]

No. And I think he has said like, yeah, I'm over that. That exhaustion. I dealt with it. And it was invigorating to make these movies with my wife. And isn't that fun? And I'm like, that is fun. Fun would love you to make something. I like perhaps a trite complaint of mine. And like, I do kind of have the thing. Like you owe me nothing.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

You made a bunch of that. I love you want to make things that don't work for me, that's fine. If you can get the money, go for it.

[Griffin]

It's not like boobs, boobs, vaginas. It's not like this movie.

Was shot back to back, but they were shot pretty close together, obviously with the same lead actor. And Working Title financed them both. And it does feel like Working Title has benefited from supporting the Cohens for decades. They clearly are like, this is a rounding error for us. Exactly.

[David]

It's kind of like it all evens out and maybe there's another interesting thing coming or whatever.

[Griffin]

But like, I think Honeydont was in the can before Driveway Dolls even came out, if I'm not mistaken. Now that two of these have been released to pretty violent indifference from the.

[Matty Luchansky]

Public, I don't know a single person that's not an absolute freakazoid that has seen it. Right.

[David]

Whereas Driveway Dolls, some people were like, oh, sure, this one I. Nobody was like, I saw Honey don't and was disappointed by it.

[Matty Luchansky]

The only person I know that like saw it Be like, that was, like, unexpected of me to. For them to see it was my friend, my. The drummer in my band Ivy that I took to go see it.

[Griffin]

I have had multiple close friends and family members truly say, you didn't see Honey don't, did you? When it came out, like, in the month after it came out, and I was like, yeah, we're doing them on the podcast right now. And they were like, yeah, but I thought you were gonna skip that one. Not just that we'd skip the episode, but they'd be like, that. You would not feel a compulsive need to see it.

[David]

You would skip it because, like, you have to not.

[Griffin]

These are people who know your health.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's that.

[Griffin]

And know that I couldn't skip it and are like, but you must have.

[Matty Luchansky]

Skipped that one tweet about David Attenborough narrating Planet Earth is going, skip, skip, don't like this one. Skip, skip, skip this animal.

[Griffin]

It did feel like this was Skip out of theaters within, like, less than two hours.

[David]

I think it did two or three weeks in theaters.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I saw it like a week into its release, and I remember checking show times a week later and being like, it's down to, like, one time a day at one theater. Yeah, it was. It was gone fast in New York City.

[Matty Luchansky]

The thing I want to think about is. So when I. When I did see it, they were introducing right after Honey don't. They introduce the Long Goodbye on the same screen 10 minutes later, which is a film.

Imagine watching this and then sitting in your. Staying in your seat.

[Griffin]

Not gonna make Honey don't look great in retrospect. I mean, I had a similar experience of It'll pick you up. I, you know, I just watched this for the second time, but two days ago, I went and saw Wake Up Dead Man.

[David]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin]

The new Knives out movie, which had a little preview screening at the Paris. I guess we'll be out now by the time this episode comes out, at.

[David]

Least in theaters or whatever. I can never keep track of what Netflix rollouts are, but I like, I.

[Griffin]

Saw that on Monday or Sunday night. I greatly enjoyed it. And then I was like, that's gonna make this Honey don't rewatch significantly worse.

[David]

That's true. In terms of. Yeah, right.

[Griffin]

They're not the exact same movie, but.

[David]

There'S murders that are being solved.

[Griffin]

And even it's like, relationship to, like, Christian faith in America.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

It's dealing with. With some similar stuff.

[David]

Well, Wake Up Dead man has the Ryan Johnson thing of it. Is trying to run at topical, that sometimes you're a little like, Ryan, this feels on the nose. Or Ryan, you're almost too animated by, like, right now. But at the other time, you're like, kind of respect you taking the swing versus Honey, don't. Being like, isn't, you know, Pat Robertson a hypocrite? You're like, he's dead.

[Griffin]

I will also say this to his credit. All three of these movies, the first time I'm seeing them, about halfway through, I'm like, I get it. This is good. This is fun, right? And then that's all you got.

[David]

And then they. They get you with the.

[Griffin]

And then they get me. And it's not even like a twist thing where I'm like, oh, you're doing far more than I thought you were underneath the surface. And I feel like the first half the movie, I was just like, okay, I get it's a Trump thing. That's really all you have to, like, talk about. And then he's like, no, I'm talking about, like, 20 things.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

And it's the kind of flowering. You want a movie movie.

[David]

Like, what was the talk with J.J. abrams?

[Griffin]

Like, that was.

[David]

I thought that was a very interesting ploy.

[Griffin]

I did, too. There were two screenings that day, so.

[David]

You didn't see that.

[Griffin]

The one I saw was moderated by Josh Horowitz.

[David]

Oh, sure. Well, he.

[Griffin]

He was excellent. He's the king of that.

[David]

He's good at that.

[Griffin]

They did a surprise of Daniel Craig coming out. The audience exploded.

[David]

I just thought it was. I. When I saw it was Abrams and Ryan Johnson, I did the double take. Like, my first thing. I was like, oh, sure, yeah. J.J. abrams haven't thought about. And then I'm like, wait, no. Did he fucking make episode nine? Which is basically like, taking a piss on episode eight. Like, is this, like, a grand healing moment? We've always been friends.

[Griffin]

I would have loved to have seen it. It did feel like just them sitting on the stage together was meant to be some rebuttal to the, like, Rock versus Undertaker narrative that the Internet has built for the last 10 years.

[Matty Luchansky]

But it's like the Rock versus the Undertaker. If the rock was, like, lying perfectly still on the ground.

[David]

It's a bit of a hydrogen bomb bomb versus coughing baby situation right now. I mean, I'm all for jab making heavy knives. It's like a Twitter.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's an incredible name.

[David]

I think I'm all for J.J. abrams making first off, anything. He made anything since episode nine.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Second off would love it to be good? Maybe. Yeah, that'd be cool.

[Griffin]

It's. It's by all accounts a back to the future riff. It is time travel influenced in some point.

[David]

Okay.

[Matty Luchansky]

Hey, the book I'm working on is also a time travel.

[David]

There's nothing wrong with time travel. Time travel rocks.

[Griffin]

David. Yep. This episode is brought to you by mubi, the global film company. The champions great cinema. From iconic directors to emerging oeurs, there is always something new to discover. And with Mubi, each and every film is hand selected. So you can can explore the best of cinema.

[David]

True. And that's right in particular, the Mastermind.

[Griffin]

One of my favorite movies of the year from one of my favorite filmmakers.

[David]

Alive, the great Kelly Reichardt. It's streaming a movie in the US from December 12th. Kelly Reichardt, first cow showing up. Lots of great movies. Directing Josh o'. Connor. The unforgettable Josh o'. Connor. In her latest Cannes triumph, the Mastermind.

[Griffin]

In a seduction date Massachusetts suburb circa 1970, unemployed family man and amateur art thief J.B. mooney sets out on his first heist. With the museum cased and accomplices recruited, he has an airtight plan. Or so he thinks.

[David]

Yeah. You like this film, right? Gabby Hoffman, John McGarra, Hope Davis. Bill Camp.

[Griffin]

The great Bill Camp.

[David]

A Kelly take on a heist movie.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

It's like loose and quiet and noodly.

[Griffin]

And kind of political, elusive and yes, incredibly fine. Joshua Connor's amazing in it. He's the guy right now, as far as I'm concerned. Guy. But this is a really fascinating vehicle for him. And I feel like it's Kelly Riker kind of dealing with a movie star Persona in a way I haven't quite seen her do before. An excellent movie. One of my favorites for the year. And that's not all they have. Obviously. Movie has an incredible selection.

[David]

Yeah. Curated streaming service. They got all of kinds, kinds of great stuff handpicked for you by Mubi International Films. Art films. Always something worth checking out.

[Griffin]

So I would say that a Mastermind is worth a month subscription alone. And to stream the best of cinema, you don't even have to pay for the first month. You can try MUBI free for 30 [e-mail] blankcheck that's m u b I.com blankcheck for a whole month of great cinema for free.

[David]

There you go.

Look, before we play, we plug Maddie's excellent books, which just reminded me to do simplicity. We should play the. We should play the box office.

[Griffin]

Much like Rob Mack. Just stop. Don't say. Simplicity in the land of. Yeah.

[David]

August 22, 2025.

Honeytone opens. Number eight. $3 million.

[Griffin]

I saw this movie in a double feature.

[David]

It topped out at 5.

Could not complete its black hat.

[Griffin]

I want to say Drive away opened a 5 and ended at 10.

[Ben Hasley]

Sure.

[David]

Let's see.

[Griffin]

So this was already like, completely 50% of something that already didn't.

[Matty Luchansky]

What this bad boy calls.

[David]

That's a great question. No driveway. Does dolls also only made five?

[Griffin]

Really?

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Okay. Publicly, they're saying they're like 15 or 20.

[David]

Yeah, I think that's probably about right. They don't seem like they would take that long to make.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. I just remembered another gripe I had.

[David]

Please go ahead, throw it at me.

[Matty Luchansky]

Very quickly. Is during the talkback, Ethan kept saying, drive Away Dykes, which I know is the working title film.

[David]

And that's the sort of secret title.

[Matty Luchansky]

But I was like, hey, man, are you allowed to say that?

[David]

Well, again, this is why they did the full court press of, like, Trisha is a co. Equal.

[Griffin]

I think that's also why the movie was not technically tit.

[Matty Luchansky]

He said it so many times, right? And every time I'm like, okay. Like eight years ago, I'd be like, all right, whatever, man. Right.

[Griffin]

Right now, right now, right now, right here, right now, right here.

[Matty Luchansky]

Like the song says.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Bring back Fat Boy Slim.

[Griffin]

What's that guy doing? It's a good question. He did the. The show with David Byrne. That was good. Here Lies Love. Is that what it was called? Sure.

[Matty Luchansky]

That's a good show.

[Griffin]

Yeah. I saw this movie in a double feature.

[Matty Luchansky]

No, it wasn't. Never mind.

[Griffin]

Really?

[David]

There you go.

[Matty Luchansky]

Sorry, I was thinking about American.

[Griffin]

Oh, well, now.

[David]

Utopia was very reception.

[Matty Luchansky]

I had political issues with. I won't get into. On your movie podcast.

[Griffin]

I don't. I. I hear that and I respect that.

[Matty Luchansky]

Thank you.

[Griffin]

I saw this in a double feature with Highest to Lowest, which was just interesting in terms of it being like, two late movies from American Masters that are kind of being dumped and disregarded.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[David]

That are funded by. Well, no, actually, honey, don't. In a streamer.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right.

[David]

It's a focus.

[Griffin]

But.

[David]

Yeah, but.

[Griffin]

Yeah, but, honey, don't. I was like. And then I went across the street with my girlfriend. We got tacos. We walked back into the theater. We saw Highest to Lowest, and we were, like, pumping our fist, and we were like, this isn't perfect, but, God, when it hits, it hits more like lowest to highest.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. In that regard.

[Griffin]

Well, it does kind of build in that Order. But it was sort of like I wish honey, don't could have delivered some of this juice.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

What's number one at the box office?

[David]

It is Speaking of things that were on streaming a the streaming sensation of the year being pushed onto w your screens ten weeks into its.

[Griffin]

So this is interesting because technically Netflix didn't report the weekend numbers for K Pop Demon Hunters, but it is listed.

[David]

Here on the numbers as the number one movie of this week making $19 million.

[Griffin]

It's one of those depending on what, 1700 screens? Because it was estimates that were like sort of repeated off the record.

[David]

It was certainly the most viewed movie of the week in theaters. Right. No one could really deny this. And it had an insane per screen average because it wasn't on that many screens.

[Griffin]

But I believe some outlets reported that Weapons was by technicality the number one movie of the weekend.

[David]

Fair enough. So number two at the box office is Weapons. Yes. One of my favorite movies. I know Mic didn't like it. Okay. I know like things about it. I know didn't like things about it. Cuz I saw Maddie letterbox about it. I thought or something.

[Matty Luchansky]

I really, really liked most of it.

[David]

You didn't. You didn't love the Amy M. I.

[Matty Luchansky]

Thought she was great. Her performance is great. I liked the movie immensely. I was. I was really locked into it for most of the. I thought the ending was so fucking good. I was losing my mind. Screaming.

[Griffin]

Talk about sticking to land.

[David]

Talk about paying off like a slobber.

[Matty Luchansky]

Shit. It was more like. I didn't like Barbarian that much.

[David]

Right. And you felt he was dipping in his face.

[Matty Luchansky]

I felt he was going back to.

[Griffin]

Repeated some of the things.

[Matty Luchansky]

Have you heard that I said this on a website I shouldn't have logged into. And I got yelled at for days and days and days and days and days and days and days. But did you know it's very scary when a woman is old?

And I think this movie was doing it less than barbarian. I think I was more mad at the moment about it. I think I would revive my stupid letterbox review to be a little higher.

[David]

Sure. Fair enough.

[Matty Luchansky]

And maybe I'll do that so no one yells at me because now you've loosed them upon me.

[David]

Daniel. I fucking logged a 5 out of 10 for Frankenstein. A movie that I know Griffin liked but hardly was getting universal praise. And these days you do this on letterboxd. People are. There's whatever. There's a gaggle of folks who come yell at you. I'm not mad. And don't put it in the newspaper that I got mad, but I was kind of like, Jesus, I'll say this.

[Matty Luchansky]

David's holding up a little sign that says, I'm mad. Mad. It's like a little Wiley Coyote.

[Griffin]

It's pointing at him.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's pointing at himself, which is hard because he's holding it perpendicular to his body.

[Griffin]

I liked Frankenstein, but also very much for me, a gentleman six with major issues that also I went to see after hearing all of my most trusting friends be like, nuke it from orbit for two months. And I was like, more of this work than I was expecting.

[Matty Luchansky]

This is the Guillermold del Toro special, because everyone I know hates it. And then I go watch it. I'm like, I had a nice time.

[Griffin]

You were saying, I wish he would make. In a. In a text thread we're on. You were saying, I wish he would make something like Crimson Peak again.

[David]

Fun.

[Griffin]

And my thought, watching Frankenstein was, this is what I wanted Crimson Peak to be. Crimson Peak, I totally bounced off of. I do feel like you and I. You and I land differently on gdt. We're both, like, hot and cold on him, but we tend to alternate on which ones.

[David]

I'll also say the Oscar Isaac performance in Frankenstein goes in the bucket. I've created with his Moon Knight and Apocalypse performances from where I'm like, three question marks. Like, what?

[Griffin]

What?

[David]

It is weird, pedal to the metal kind of performance.

[Griffin]

Not very successful casting. Elord's fantastic, and that's really great. What works in the movie, not just his performance.

[David]

I'm the first to notice.

[Matty Luchansky]

Is he tall?

[David]

Tall?

[Matty Luchansky]

Phil's too tall to play Elvis, I think tall.

[Griffin]

Fellas, you have not seen the film yet. Maddie.

[Matty Luchansky]

Frank, Frankenstein.

[Griffin]

Yeah. No. There's this bizarre thing, and I was very surprised. Sympathetic to the monster seems to relate more to the monster character.

[Matty Luchansky]

That's what the book is.

[David]

Well, I would say the whole movie is a little bit. That's what the book is.

[Griffin]

And to most depictions, most adaptations of the book don't really get at that.

[David]

I disagree with that.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, well, I'm sympathetic in all the movies a lot, but like, the classic, like, Universal monsters depiction is like, he is just a beast. Whereas, like in the book, he's, like, wearing a tuxedo and writing letters longhand with a feather like, it's how to.

[David]

Live your life, honey. Don't need. Needed more longhand.

[Griffin]

Feather letters, stitched fingers say that that's a theater warmer.

[David]

Longhand feather letter number three at the box office. Griffin is a film that did Pretty good.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

A Legacyquel that I feel like came out, got meh reviews and kind of like, you know, cleared almost 100 mil at the box office, kind of almost quietly, despite one of its cast members being fucking the loudest hottest person in the world these days. Enough of her. Maybe I'm being rude. She's a legend. Maddie, shut up.

[Griffin]

What's in the world? Legacy. It's not Sydney Sweeney. It's not. I know what you did last summer.

[David]

That I did not like. Did not care for that film.

[Griffin]

When did it come out? What week is this?

[David]

This is its third week of release. That came out sort of August 8th.

[Griffin]

Beginning of August, my wedding anniversary. It doesn't quite hit 100, but it gets close.

[David]

94.

[Griffin]

Loudest person in.

[David]

She's just. There's been a lot of her lately.

[Griffin]

She's.

[David]

And she's off the leash, as am I sometimes. So I respect it. But I do feel like she's felt very empowered to be, you know, it is Freakier Friday. Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[David]

Where she's like, should I fire off a Charlie Kirk tweet? I'm going to do it. I like some PR person is like, Jamie H. Forget it.

[Griffin]

I defend her Oscar winning performance. I think she is quite good in everything, everywhere, all at once. I do think nothing has come from giving her that Oscar.

[David]

It has certainly empowered her to go lodge very, very broad performances, I would say of late. Yes. I will never forget queuing up that bear episode. That's just her and Abby Elliott's face in close ups. Me and my wife watching it for 10 minutes and then me going, I think the whole episode is gonna be this. And my wife going, I mean, no way. Come on. And I sort of do the I like track. You know, I hit the apple remote to see the. Yeah. As you try. And I'm like, just their faces. Just their faces. The whole thing's just their faces.

[Griffin]

I will say, just like, do we have any diapers that change?

[Matty Luchansky]

I will say. I will say, ain't go poop. Come on, Please give us the bear. Post season one, a lot of episodes, you're kind of like, is this going to be.

[David]

The whole thing's going to be this. Oh, the whole thing's going to be. And I liked season two. I liked season two and season three. There were things I liked.

[Matty Luchansky]

There were episodes that worked for yet watched four.

Much like the Lady Killers.

[David]

I'm afraid of it same. Or I watched some and then haven't finished it yet. Freaker Friday. Did you see Freakier Friday.

[Griffin]

I still have not seen it neither. I will watch it when it's on Disney plus And you saw it.

[Ben Hasley]

Say what?

[Griffin]

I'm joking.

[David]

You probably didn't see Freakier Friday either.

[Griffin]

I feel like everyone I know who's seen it is like everyone said it was.

[David]

Like, it's fine. It's kind of what you think it is. Yeah, right.

[Griffin]

It looks like a shampoo commercial, but it's effective.

[David]

Who directed it?

[Griffin]

What's her name?

[Matty Luchansky]

Garnier. The brand.

[Griffin]

The woman who did Late Night and Blinded by the Light.

[David]

Nisha Ganatra. Yes. Late Night. The. The great who could. She didn't do.

[Matty Luchansky]

Come on.

[David]

That's Ghada. That's a real great film.

[Griffin]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[David]

But she did do Late Night and then she did a movie, I think called the High Note with Dakota Johnson. That was.

[Griffin]

And Trace Ellis Ross and Ice Cube Covid.

[David]

Forgotten films.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

Um, number four. Did you see Freaker Friday?

[Griffin]

No.

[David]

You didn't. You didn't. You didn't.

[Matty Luchansky]

I didn't. I didn't get freaky with it. Yeah.

[David]

Happy Lindsay Lohan seems to it just level out.

[Matty Luchansky]

She seems fine. She is in a commercial that drives me insane where she's like talking about her children's toys or something that I get 85,000 times. I'm trying to watch my shows while I draw. And for that she's dead to me.

[Griffin]

Accepted.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[David]

Number four at the box office is big superhero film of the year. That did probably about the lowest acceptable like amount that the Fantastic Four call in first steps.

[Matty Luchansky]

Right.

[David]

Like it. It squeaked over 500 worldwide.

[Griffin]

It just narrowly avoided an embarrassment.

[David]

But it was not, I think the runaway bounce back on it.

[Griffin]

No. Especially when you consider Deadpool and Wolverine aside.

That being their highest grossing film or their second highest grossing film in years is faint praise because it outgrows thunderbolts. It outgrows Captain America. Brave new world. All respect to our president. Wow.

[Matty Luchansky]

I didn't realize he was here.

[Griffin]

He's right there.

[Matty Luchansky]

He's been listening to me the whole time.

[Griffin]

On our list, highest shelf.

[Matty Luchansky]

You got to warn me the films before.

[David]

I will appoint the leader to every position in the cabinet.

[Griffin]

The films before that.

[David]

Adam, Eve.

[Matty Luchansky]

And.

[David]

Remember when that movie is like about like Japan and America negotiating an adamantium mining treaty, it's that one.

[Matty Luchansky]

That's the plot of that Stephen S music.

[David]

Yeah, it's the plot of a mousette.

[Griffin]

One of the fallen celestials has become an island with adamantium in its.

[David]

Is there a problem? And the countries are fighting over also outgrows the Marvels. It did not outgrow Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Okay, it did barely outgrow Ant man and the Wasp. Quantumania, but that's not what you want it to be doing.

[Matty Luchansky]

I was gonna say, just imagine being Peyton Reed, and you are about to make your 60s Fantastic Four movie, and you make Down With Love, one of the best movies in the last 30 years, in my opinion.

[David]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Movie, incredible movie. Shout out to my wife for making me watch it because it was her favorite movie in high school. Anyways, great movie, but imagine being him and you want to make your fantastic four 60s movie, and nobody likes Down With Love, so they don't let you. And then 20 years later, they make it, and it has it looks.

[Griffin]

Look, I partially defend first steps, but it must have been really frustrating to him to make Quantumania and then watch someone else make the kind of Fantastic Four movie that he had always wanted to make.

[Matty Luchansky]

He would have nailed.

[Griffin]

And not totally.

[David]

I think he would have. Would have done a better job with it.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Number five at the box office is another animated film.

[Griffin]

A sequel, but not a squeakle.

[David]

No, not that I'm aware of.

[Griffin]

It's the bad guys 2.

[David]

That's correct.

[Griffin]

A movie that quotes apparently kind of disappointed it ended up at 80.

[David]

It ended up at the grand total of $82 million.

[Griffin]

Yeah, like, the. The first one outgrossed it. And that was 2022, I want to say. And also was like, when Peacock was putting movies on their streaming service three days after they were in theaters.

[David]

Take that for what you will.

[Griffin]

Went to see it with the Ehrlichs. Oh, yeah.

[David]

Asus on it.

[Griffin]

It's his favorite movie.

[David]

Sure. Didn't really move by whatever he's seen lately.

[Griffin]

The last time I went over there, he was watching it for the 80,000th time that day.

[David]

Number six at the box office this week was nobody two. It is a lot of, like, okay, like, stuff in the box office this August.

[Griffin]

I do like, it gives me a little bit of hope for, like, the health of cinema. Going that Nobody two is kind of what we need more of, which is, like, you make a $15 million movie that makes like, 50 worldwide, and Universal goes like, why not make a sequel?

[David]

Who cares?

[Griffin]

It's fine. You can make a movie that gets on, like, second base, and people are like, okay, sure.

[David]

Number seven, James Gunn's Superman, which in its seventh week is outgrossing. Honey, don't. Number nine be great. Naked Gun.

[Griffin]

Yeah, you see Naked Gun Yeah, I.

[Matty Luchansky]

Some when it was funny. It was so funny. The, the last act kind of lost me.

[Griffin]

I think there's great bits in the last.

[Matty Luchansky]

I think there's good. But it was like when the jokes were good, I was like having the time of my fucking life.

[Griffin]

I will say I saw it a theaters and I found it did not quite have the replay value that for me. I rewatched the three original movies once a year.

[Matty Luchansky]

I grew up watching. We had 33 and a third taped off of television. Yeah. And I watched it until it broke, I think. Yeah.

[Griffin]

The jokes hit still on the 50th watch for me and I, I like The Naked Gun 2025 a tremendous amount. But I, I did feel a little bit more of its creakiness though. Second watch still best studio comedy we've had in quite some time.

[Matty Luchansky]

I mean the whole time I was watching it and I was just like, oh, there's like a comedy with jokes in it.

[Griffin]

I was, can you believe it? So happy. And even like, you know, just to be clear watching it the second time, I was very happy watching it. I just wasn't in the ecstatic euphoria I was in the first time.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah. I also missed it in theaters so I watched it at home, which I think maybe two more.

[Griffin]

It was a very good movie to see with theaters in theaters, within audience.

[Matty Luchansky]

I can imagine.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Number 10, the box office. Griffin's favorite film the year. Jurassic World Rebirth.

There you go.

[Matty Luchansky]

Is that your review of the film?

[David]

Number opening much?

[Griffin]

It sucks.

[Matty Luchansky]

Oh, shocking.

[David]

Not a fan. Not a fan of that one. Were you quite poor? It stars people. Sexiest man alive.

[Griffin]

I like him.

[David]

Yeah, I like him too.

[Griffin]

He gives the best performance in that movie.

[David]

Sure. Does that mean I support pose?

[Griffin]

I mean what's the competition? That dinosaur. That's a mix of two different dinosaurs.

[David]

I think Mahershala gives the best performance. That guy kind of can't be bad and he and that movie is like trying so hard. It's like weighing him down with bad and he's still like basically fine.

[Griffin]

I agree that he can't embarrass himself.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Like he's just got like too much like legitimate presence, you know, I was.

[Matty Luchansky]

Watching the other day, was Alita Battle Angel.

A good movie?

[David]

Yes.

[Matty Luchansky]

2 he fucking rocks it. Yeah, he looks cool as hell.

[David]

Remember how that movie is like she's like, I'm a big eyed crazy robot and I don't know what's going on with me. And then she's like, I do remember. What's going on with me. I was in a moon war. And then she's like, I need to do rollerball. Fucking cyber sports.

[Matty Luchansky]

My dad is a rocket handler.

[David]

Yes. And the end of the movie is like edward Norton lives in space. And I'm like, yes he does.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

I can't believe they never made a second one of those. Christoph Waltz is a giant hammer.

[David]

Yes, he does.

[Griffin]

I was genuinely so convinced in my like conspiracy theory addled brain that when Disney bought Fox, James Cameron was going to make it a contractual point that they had to greenlight a second Alita for him to keep making avatars.

[David]

Sure. Right, right.

[Griffin]

No, cuz he had the avatar bargaining.

[Matty Luchansky]

Sell one of his submarines. They can make a new avatar whenever he wants.

[Griffin]

I was like, if he wants Alita to happen at Disney now that they're so invested in the avatar business, it'll happen. And it seems like he's just been like, yeah, public doesn't want it.

[David]

I, I. Well I think there's a world where have been some momentum and then co kind of killed it.

[Griffin]

The momentum is absolutely gone.

[David]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

The momentum was lost in a moon war.

[Griffin]

Yeah, Moon war.

[David]

It's just so good when she's like I remembered moon war. And I'm like what?

[Griffin]

Remember how she has like bespoke porcelain on?

[David]

Yes, I do.

[Griffin]

It's beautiful.

[David]

I have this deal book that's her hand or personal.

[Griffin]

That one goes for pretty pennies.

[David]

I know, baby.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay, baby, it's all mine. Howdy, baby.

[David]

Sorry. We should mention also weird way to end our Coen brothers miniseries.

[Griffin]

Our friends at super Y sent over very nicely some co branded focus features promo Honey don't air fresheners.

[Matty Luchansky]

I'm giving it one more sniff to try and get to the bottom.

[Griffin]

Our windowless studio smells great. Right?

[David]

I had to get it off my desk. It was starting to sniff on.

[Matty Luchansky]

They're strong.

[Griffin]

They're meant for cars and not podcast studios.

[David]

Well, I would say cars are smaller than podcast studios Studios, but yes. Well, not all pocket studios though. Not that first one we had. That's true. That was kind of car size. That was very. That was like a van size mid sized sedan.

[Griffin]

It's like a smart car or some shit. Remember?

[Matty Luchansky]

Why does Honey who is like so self serious have a Honey don't license plate?

[David]

It's a great question. Well, it's her little twist of whimsy. Much like ordering the coffee. I don't fucking know. I don't know.

[Matty Luchansky]

Sorry for mentioning the movie.

[Griffin]

Ben's Honey don't thoughts.

[David]

Yeah, Ben Any. Any other thoughts apart from crush on all Aubrey.

Love it. That should be the review. That should be what I said to the Rep as I exited the theater.

[Matty Luchansky]

I just.

[David]

As I get further away, the air is still leaving my body.

[Matty Luchansky]

Eraser head noise. Yeah.

[David]

Oh, my God. The classic what do you say to the rep thing of like, where you're like. It was interesting.

[Matty Luchansky]

I gotta go.

[David]

I.

[Griffin]

The projector was on. They did a good job turning that. That on.

[David]

That seat was working.

[Griffin]

It did not break.

[Ben Hasley]

I'll say this.

[David]

Both arms were there.

[Ben Hasley]

Passed the time while I did laundry.

[David]

Oh.

[Griffin]

Washed it off my phone as the.

[Matty Luchansky]

Way it was intended.

[Griffin]

If you.

[David]

What if the oscars give this 14 nominations? That'd be funny.

[Matty Luchansky]

You think it'll get an original song?

[David]

Three. It'll get three. Three, Right.

[Griffin]

Like, yeah.

[David]

Yeah. What are the. Well, k Pop Demon hunters will be enough.

[Matty Luchansky]

Oh, yeah. Imagine getting an original song nomination for this and not for Mr. Kim.

[David]

That'd be great.

[Griffin]

That'd be great. It'd be good. Maddie.

[David]

Maddie.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah, Please.

[David]

Simplicity crown thing that you do. Not just you're wonderful.

[Matty Luchansky]

Too many things. But yeah, please buy my book. I have two books or three books out on the market, but the most recent one is called Simplicity. You can buy it at any. Your local bookstore, any of the stores, online, whatever.

[David]

It's a somewhat tough story to sum up in a good way.

[Matty Luchansky]

It is. It is. It is. Elevator pitch list. It has been out for.

[David]

You need that elevator to like the 200th.

[Matty Luchansky]

Like, it's fully I local. This book. I finished. I finished writing and drawing this book a year and a half ago and I'm still like people like, what's the book about? And I'm like.

[David]

It'S really, really good.

[Matty Luchansky]

You gotta sit down. It's really. I think it's. I'm really proud of it. It's like. But it's about, like revolution and love and sex and technology and a lot of. Oh, I do know that they. The first printer it was supposed to be printed at in China rejected it because there were too many nude butts in it.

[Griffin]

It's your. In the night.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's my correct. And yeah. And also I have two podcasts myself. One is about mayors. It's called no Gods, no mayors, no gods.com where every week we talk about a mayor because they're all maniacs.

[Griffin]

We're recording this on election day itself. Not stressed at all.

[Matty Luchansky]

I'm actually feeling really normal.

[Griffin]

I lack the ability to have faith in things. But hopefully, yeah, I'd love To see it. I'll feel good tomorrow morning.

[David]

I would love to see it.

[Matty Luchansky]

I would love to see one specific thing happen to one. One specific older man.

[Griffin]

Yes, we'd all like to see Curtis.

I was going to say in solidarity, don their red berets tomorrow morning.

A new era for this city.

[Matty Luchansky]

Dawn, I'm going to be. Well, you're going to know because you're at the Wake up. And you've been conscripted into building a feral cat colony in a park to encourage cat colonies to take care of the rat problem. But everyone we talk about, it's me and November and Riley from Trash Future. And about. We talk talk about mayors. And then I also do another show with my friend Clayton Ashley called Temporal Culture War where we talk about the early 2000s while we watch Star Trek Enterprise.

[David]

Wait, how do I not know about this show? Right up my alley.

[Griffin]

That's rude of you.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's called Temporal. We've been doing it for about a year.

[David]

It is so funny to me, just to tangent, that I'm sure you will agree that they were like, we fucking need to go back to basics. The show will be a prequel. It will strip things away. It won't have complicated Star Trek because it's a prequel be about the Enterprise, the first one, Scott Bakula. We need to be really conservative here. Like, get the most ordinary, like, you know, straight arrow guy to play the captain. And then like two episodes in, they're like, there's a temporal war happening with the 30th century. There's bug people. Like, it's. They abandoned.

[Matty Luchansky]

They abandoned the time war after a.

[David]

Season and a half because clearly UPN was like, enough.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's because 911 happens. Oh, that's right. So the whole point of the show is we're watching it. And then every week we also talk talk about, like, the movie came out that week, music TV, and also like the news that week in 2001-2005.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

And we're into like the second season right now, but they drop all of it and it becomes 24, set in space. But it's like Republican Star Trek.

[David]

Yes.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's like there's a fictional man called Lawrence, Kansas, I say, is watching the show in his truck on a little tv.

[Griffin]

What's T pole up to these days?

[David]

It is pronounced t' Pol Jalene Blalock.

[Matty Luchansky]

I will say, I kept saying to poll on the show and one listener wrote in, so angry at me and Clayton. And now we have to say it a thousand times an episode. To get it cracked.

[Griffin]

I wish I could relate. I simply never have been criticized online for mispronouncing words.

[David]

I think Jolene Blaylock is truly one of those, like, you know, like, makes most of the money, just like, doing the very consistent Star Trek circuit.

[Matty Luchansky]

Gets nothing to do on that show and does so much with it. She's actually kind of astonishing.

[David]

I think she's good. I like. I like to pull. I like that character. I'm always. I'm always provocative. I love a Vulcan. I need to.

[Matty Luchansky]

Who's your favorite Vulcan?

[David]

Tuvok.

[Matty Luchansky]

I was going to say Tuvok.

[David]

Man, I fucking love that motherfucker. The episode where he mind melds. The Voyager episode where he mind melds with Brad Dourif and he goes crazy. He's one of my favorite.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's Brad Dourif, Remember the one.

[David]

Brad Durf plays a serial killer who's on the Voyager. And then they're like, we don't know what Brad Durf.

[Griffin]

No, you must be thinking of someone different. They would never cast him and play a serial killer who goes crazy.

[David]

Oh, God, he's really good.

[Matty Luchansky]

Remember the one where he comes back, he melts with Neelix.

[David]

Of course.

[Matty Luchansky]

Tuvix. Of course.

[David]

Do you know about Tuvix?

[Matty Luchansky]

It's Mitch Gorefine himself.

[David]

Do you know about Tuvix?

[Griffin]

We talked about this in the.

[David]

No, no, no. We talked about Neelix, who's a character on Voyager.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay. I haven't finished that episode yet. You talk about.

[David]

I talked about Ethan Phillips. But there's an episode of Voyager where Tuvok, who is the Vulcan on Voyager, and Neelix, who is the bizarre alien chef that they picked up while they're in the Delta Quadrant with his four year old girlfriend. With a girlfriend who, yes, canonically is like 3 or 4 years old because she has a 10 year lifespan he imprinted upon her. Let's not even even get into it. Merge in a teleporter accident into one being called Tuvix. It's like a mix of them, right?

[Matty Luchansky]

Fly style, which is kind of fun.

[David]

And the episode is kind of about how everyone's like, honestly, kind of prefer Tuvix to either Tuvic or like Tuvok or Dix, like kind of the best of both worlds with this guy. But then at the end of the episode, the doctor's like, so I figured out a way how to, like, separate them. And Janeway's like, great news. And Tuvix is like, oh, hi. That would be.

[Griffin]

Would kill me.

[David]

Like, I'M a new being. Like, you can't kill me. Like, that's murder. And Janeway's like, got it, got it, got it. Think we gotta do it. And they do it. And then the episode just kind of ends with them being like, well, I was kind of fucked up. And, like, it's kind of never addressed again.

[Matty Luchansky]

Voyager rocks. Voyager is so good. I love Voyager. My project, while I drew simplicity was I watched all of Star Trek.

[David]

Yes. Hell, yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

All of it from original series all the way through.

[David]

Did you watch the Animated, Sarah?

[Matty Luchansky]

I did not watch the 60s animated.

[David]

I have never watched that. And I've always thought I should do that someday.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Would people prefer this podcast if it were hosted by Gravid?

[David]

Kind of like, Gravid. I mean, it's like, again, the iconic Bluey episode, mini Bluey, in which Bingo Bluey paints Bingo blue and is like, here's how to be Bluey and, like, you know, essentially be obnoxious. And the parents are like, God, this is so annoying. And then they're like, okay, well, then we'll be two Bingos. So Bingo paints Bluey brown. And then they're like, bingo. So they're both being good, and the dad's just like, honestly, this rocks. And Bluey is like, that hurts my face feelings. And they're like, oh, sorry. And then the episode just ends. That's good.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yes, it's really good.

[David]

Sorry, had to discuss that.

[Matty Luchansky]

Thank you for being here. Oh, do you watch Bluey? As a parent of young children, I.

[David]

Watch three episodes of Bluey every single day. I have seen every Bluey so many times. It is absolutely fucking crazy at this point. I can do, like, the dialogue.

[Griffin]

How many episodes are there in total?

[David]

There's about 150.

[Matty Luchansky]

Every parent I know is putting up me in 1998, watching the Simpsons numbers.

[David]

And watching Bluey, like, exactly correct. Exactly the same vibe. And honestly, Bluey is so good that I am never, like, there's like, three Bluey episodes where when my daughter picks, I'm like, this one. Everything else good. What's up? What's up?

[Griffin]

Well, the one where they explain how Bingo got his tattoos. It's a lost joke.

[David]

It's pretty. Pretty good joke.

[Griffin]

It was okay. I was trying to think of. Oh, I see shorthand for famously bad episodes.

[David]

A famous skip.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Ben Hasley]

So links to all of Maddie's plugs.

[Matty Luchansky]

Wonderful work.

[Griffin]

Good, good work.

[Ben Hasley]

Are available in the episode description.

[Griffin]

Thank you for producing this podcast. Podcast. Ben.

[Ben Hasley]

I also have a plug.

[David]

Oh, I know what this plug is for. I'VE been seeing some IGs.

[Griffin]

It's the holiday season, of course.

[Ben Hasley]

The holiday season. This episode comes out on December 7th, so it's actually been about a week since Slow Christmas Number five released on all streaming platforms.

[Griffin]

Perhaps you've noticed slowing down around you. Oh, ho ho. Hell yeah. Slow Xmas V. Yup.

[Ben Hasley]

This year it's being served cold.

[David]

Brr. What is that like? Unlike the others, bundle up and sip.

[Ben Hasley]

Away them holiday season blues with wintry, ethereal tunes.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yummy.

[David]

We'll love it.

[Griffin]

I like the implication that the other ones were too hot to touch.

[Ben Hasley]

So a link to that album. Album will be in the episode description as well. And then lastly here at the end of the episode. Before you take us out, Griffin, we're just going to tack on at the end. We a few months back when we were in la, we've mentioned it, I think in past episodes we did. We curated a screening, American Cinema tech.

[Griffin]

Friend of the fest. We presented a Hudsucker Proxy and we.

[Ben Hasley]

Just did a little intro. They were nice enough to record that intro.

[David]

Oh, cool.

[Ben Hasley]

And so we'll just add that here at the end of the episode.

[David]

Enjoy that. This has been the end of our Cohen's series. I think we did our rankings on the Buster Scruggs app.

[Griffin]

More of the Pump and Circumstance ending.

[David]

Did your rank.

[Griffin]

And yeah, here's my ranking of the Ethan Trisha Cook films.

[David]

Driveway Dolls. Honey Don'ts Weird.

[Griffin]

I actually have in first, Driveway Dolls. And in second, Honey Don't.

[David]

Haven't watched the Jerry Lee Lewis thing yet. My guess is it's probably in between the two or something.

[Griffin]

Okay, we're now let's rank our solo. Joel's quickly at number one. I have the Tragedy of Macbeth.

[David]

Oh, interesting. Me too.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

Okay, next week we are going to do an episode on the new James L. Brooks movie, Ella McKay.

[Griffin]

Truly, of all the filmmakers we've covered who are still alive, the one I was least expecting would release another movie ever.

[David]

Yeah, sure. Well, here it comes.

[Griffin]

It's kind of an exciting treat. And then after that, this, like, indie.

[David]

Project that's being put out by, I don't know, some street I've never heard of. Avatar, Tar Colon, Fire and Ash. Now, Matty, I know you don't like those movies, okay. Which is fine.

[Matty Luchansky]

I will keep seeing them in theaters as long as I live because I enjoy a spectacle.

[David]

You've never vibed with them as much as some.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

You don't like them yet.

[Matty Luchansky]

I have problems with Mr. Cameron's approach.

[Griffin]

He's Going to keep making them and one of these days he's going to get you.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay. I will say watching the preview for the new one has me the most liked. Perhaps I will like like this one because you know, I think it's pretty cool. Is.

As a former pyromaniac.

[David]

Recovered elapsed pyromaniac. I will then I will actually Griff, we should say. And then in January.

[Griffin]

I agree.

[David]

We will be doing an episode on.

[Griffin]

Is this thing on? Wait a second. Is this thing.

[David]

What's on?

[Griffin]

Is this thing on?

[David]

Bradley Cooper's sad dad stand up comedy.

[Griffin]

Divorce film completing our kind of in progress. Bradley Cooper not completing. I assume we'll make more movies but continue continuing. Sorry.

[David]

And then we're gonna do an episode on Park 10 Wooks. No other choice. There's lots of blank sheet, blank check directors at this point putting out movies all around Christmas time.

[Griffin]

It tends to happen this time of year.

[David]

The timing is pretty good though because like you'll these things will hopefully have been expanded enough that people will be.

[Griffin]

Able to see them blow up. So December 28th is our one dark week every year. But we have a block of four episodes across five weeks that are all new releases. And then of course, as everyone knows, as everyone has guessed online, oceans are now battlefields.

[David]

Yes, Harrison Ford is John Book.

[Griffin]

Dig up your dead poets because the next miniseries on main feed is Lynn Ramsey. You. You don't know.

[David]

Ramsay.

[Griffin]

Next. You know, Peter Weir. You. Peter Weir's after Lynn Ramsey.

[David]

We're after Prince Ramsey. We have, we planned this long ago when we found that Lynn was finally doing another movie.

[Griffin]

One of, in my opinion, the best filmmakers alive.

[David]

And I always said whenever she does a movie next we're doing her. We're doing the five films, five feature films from the that wacky Scott. Lynn Ramsey.

[Griffin]

That wacky Scott.

[David]

And then indeed we will be doing Peter Weir.

[Griffin]

It is just because I feel so big and special and smart when people reading the tea leaves are like, so Weir is definitely next, right? And we're like, these fuckers don't even know we're slipping in a quick file. They might know it and they'll know.

[David]

Fucking Morvern collar or whatever, right?

[Ben Hasley]

Hey, fuck it. Since we're talking about 2026 over on the Patreon feed, we're gonna be kicking off the year with a new commentary series.

[Griffin]

We are.

[David]

Oh, that's true.

[Ben Hasley]

The films of wizard of Oz.

[Griffin]

Of Oz.

[David]

Oh, the Oz.

[Griffin]

They don't all have the wizard in them, although I guess they all kind of do.

[David]

I think they might all, in some form or other. Does Return to Oz have one?

[Matty Luchansky]

I'm trying.

[Griffin]

I think the wizard does not appear in return.

[David]

That might be the only one.

[Griffin]

But we are. We are in a Patreon commentary series, going to do Victor Fleming's the Wizard of Oz. Yes. The Wiz.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Return to Oz, Wicked and wicked for good. We are not revisiting Sam Raimi's Oz the Great and Powerful.

[David]

You can check that episode.

I ain't going to no sphere.

[Griffin]

Maddie, I think we should.

[David]

As much as I ethically support what's going on in this, I just want.

[Matty Luchansky]

To see Phil Dolan in it. My friend and yours.

[Griffin]

He's. I hear he's so good in it. I hear his performance is so good.

[David]

That harmonica Zaslav's in there.

[Griffin]

He's. There's a part where he sings. I should have known about the wizard.

[David]

All right, we need to record ads. I need to go to the bathroom and then go home to my lovely.

[Griffin]

Family being friends with Harvey Weinstein and then releasing a pop song about his guilt. Do you know about this?

[David]

I do, but we have to be done.

[Griffin]

I think we could go another 20 minutes. Maddie, thank you for being.

[Matty Luchansky]

Oh, my God. Thank you so much for having me on. This is such a blessing.

[Griffin]

You're the best.

[Matty Luchansky]

I love the show so much. So it's very important for me that I got to come on.

[David]

That's very nice of you, and it was good to have you on. I promise you will return to the show not to do Honey Don't. There will be better films in your future, or at least more interesting.

[Matty Luchansky]

Dave. Hell yeah.

[Griffin]

You can't promise that. We won't ask Maddie to do Honey.

[David]

It's possible we'll do another Honey, Don't. You never know.

[Griffin]

Can't promise that.

[David]

A Honey double dip.

[Griffin]

It could always happen.

[Matty Luchansky]

Me.

[David]

We revisited Clifford, Right? And maybe. Definitely as good as that one.

[Ben Hasley]

Maybe we just have to go back and do Honey, Don't.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Maddie, you contributed an art piece to our Decade of Dreams art show earlier this year. I did a really good Bits Retired Bits hanging up the rafters piece. I just wanted to make sure. We vocally thanked you on microphone for that.

[Matty Luchansky]

Thank you so much. That was such an incredible blast to draw.

[Griffin]

It was so much fun.

[Matty Luchansky]

I really enjoyed drawing some buried jeans.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Everyone should read your books and listen to your podcast.

[Matty Luchansky]

Thank you.

[Griffin]

And thank you all for listening. And I hope you all have fun checking out these new releases with us. And then Lynn Ramsey in January and Then of course, we're never covering Peter Weir. Thank you all for listening and as always, honeydon't is about vaginas.

Without further ado, please welcome from Blank check, Griffin, Bette and Marie.

Oh, wait, should we be color coordinating hula hoops with mic chords? Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay.

[Griffin]

I don't think there's a purple one. Ben's got the. I got yellow. We could maybe combine a couple colors. Hello, everybody. Now that we got that important business out of the way, thank you so much for coming here. Thanks, guys.

Maybe gonna try to attempt to do the. The first three person hula hoop live intro, simultaneous performance.

[Ben Hasley]

I don't think that we had planned for wired mics.

[Griffin]

That was not at all. It was not a consideration. We'd asked for headsets, so we'd asked for a headset mic.

[Ben Hasley]

Okay, maybe let's try to get a.

[Griffin]

Little bit of distance. Maybe this is the solution. This is great.

[Ben Hasley]

We're just working it out on the fly.

[Griffin]

Bree's husband said, however good you think you are at this, it's a lot harder than it seems. And I said, I think I'm terrible at this. So it's going to be a real.

[Matty Luchansky]

Okay, I read that you're supposed to put like one foot in front of.

[Griffin]

The other and then like keep your.

[Matty Luchansky]

Your top part of your body straight and then just kind of like this.

[Griffin]

It's a.

[David]

This thing.

[Griffin]

I thought it was a hip thing.

[Matty Luchansky]

It's a. Yeah, it's between hips.

[Ben Hasley]

All right, on three. One, two, three.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

That was really good, guys.

[Griffin]

That was really. That was really good. It's kind of an eight effort situation.

[Ben Hasley]

About as well as I thought it was.

[Griffin]

Spent $45 on these.

[David]

We bought them at the Groves.

[Griffin]

It was kind of a markup situation. There was an activation happening. Free perfume samples. Who here has seen this movie before?

And let's do the inverse. Who has never seen this film before?

[David]

Wow.

[Matty Luchansky]

Hula hoop thing later.

[Griffin]

Yeah, it'll make sense. It's only a spoiler if you acknowledge that I just told you it was a spoiler. It seemed random. This is one of my favorite movies of all time.

One of my 10 favorites. Which, with our very, very normal listenership online, and when I say this, by the way, all of you are cool and normal. I'm talking only about the Redditors who aren't in the room. But I've seen a lot of preemptive. Is Griffin really going to fucking rank Hudsucker above Fargo and no Country?

[David]

Well, you said on the episode, you.

[Griffin]

Said, I've said this many times. It's my favorite, but I wouldn't say it's their best. They made Fargo. I know they made Fargo. I'm not an idiot. These guys have made, like, 15 masterpieces. But this is a movie that is just so completely on my wavelength. It is. It's. It's. It's just like the pop song I can't help but dance to. I saw it for the first time in 35 millimeter at MoMA in New York City. And I went into seeing it being like, this is the one everyone thinks sucks. Right. And from the first shot, even those of you who have seen this before, if you haven't seen a big screen, if you haven't seen it on celluloid, I do think it is, like, genuinely one of the great films, film craft movies. It is like, the one time they got to work on a really big budget with entirely analog models and sets and costumes and practical optically printed effects and all these things that just kind of make me cry thinking about them existing. We used to make things in this country, and if I could just.

Grant me a moment here, this film was, of course, shot in.

North Carolina.

[Matty Luchansky]

It does feel like a New York.

[Griffin]

Movie, which is funny because we're in la. Yes.

[Matty Luchansky]

And Lebowski is our current yes. Episode. And that's a LA movie.

[Griffin]

Yes. But I believe the Crow, which we just covered on our Patreon, also was shot in North Carolina, the same set. The Super Mario Brothers movie, I think at least one of the Ninja Turtles. There was this weird rush in the 80s and 90s to build your fake.

[Matty Luchansky]

Like, shitty New York.

[Griffin]

A lot of them are using these same things, and in particular this movie. The Coen brothers tricked Joel Silver into getting Warner Brothers to give him a bunch of money to build these buildings that were reused like, a trillion times. So if you're like, man, I can't believe they let the Coen brothers build these crazy sets. Joel Schumacher stole.

Batman, scaled these buildings many times. Even since our episode came out, I've had a lot of people be like, I really just. I frankly don't get this movie. And I think it's a really interesting one because it seems to split people on. For Coen Brothers fans who have some hang ups with them, they feel like this movie is emblematic of, oh, are they just. Is it just pastiche? Is it just style? Is it just effect? And is this movie really cynical? Is this movie making fun of all of its characters? Is it all a lark? And I have the read that I think this is quietly their most sincere film. I think they mean everything in it. I think it's a fascinating midpoint between them and Sam Raimi, who they came up with. It is what they tried to do with Crime Wave. Obviously one of the best movies ever.

[David]

Made.

[Griffin]

But making a tribute to the kind of films they. They grew up loving, but infusing it with a modern sensibility and combining different eras and different styles. And I think it is, at the end of the day, a very open hearted movie about what if the dumbest guy had the best idea. And it's a really, really fun conceit for a film to have the entire audience know that he's right from the beginning. And if you don't, I'm talking about, you'll. You'll learn soon enough. But thank you to folks at American Cinematch.

Awesome to be here.

[Ben Hasley]

But Griffin, I mean, speaking of sincerity and a really good idea.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Ben Hasley]

Actually brought a prototype out here with me today.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

So just give me one sec. Yeah.

[Griffin]

Ben's trying to launch a new product here tonight.

Okay.

[Ben Hasley]

So what we have here is Chain for Mad Kids.

And you can do a lot of stuff with it. I mean, you look cool and just.

[David]

Quick show of swinging around.

[Ben Hasley]

I mean, there's endless possibilities.

[Matty Luchansky]

It seems like easy to scale, you know?

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Matty Luchansky]

Oh, for sure.

[Griffin]

Quick show of hands. Now that the chain's been brought out. Who has never listened to the podcast? Like link check.

[Matty Luchansky]

Again.

[David]

Once you see the movie, you'll get it.

[Griffin]

Maybe not the chain part, but everything else. Thank you for being here.

[Ben Hasley]

Thank you, everyone.