I Could Never Be Your Woman with Karen Chee

Summary

Summary of "I Could Never Be Your Woman with Karen Chee"

Blank Check with Griffin & David dives deep into Amy Heckerling's film "I Could Never Be Your Woman" in this episode, featuring guest Karen Chee. The hosts, Griffin Newman and David Sims, along with producer Ben Hosley, dissect the movie's convoluted production history, character dynamics, and its place within Heckerling's filmography.

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Introduction to the Episode

The episode opens with Griffin and David setting the stage for their discussion on Amy Heckerling's "I Could Never Be Your Woman." They introduce guest Karen Chee, who brings fresh insights to the conversation.

---

Overview of "I Could Never Be Your Woman

Griffin Newman begins by quoting Michelle Pfeiffer's character in the film, highlighting the movie's quirky dialogue. He remarks, "I feel a way about this movie that I wish I felt more about." [01:19]

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Production Challenges and Financial Troubles

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the movie's troubled production. The film was initially financed by Philippe Martinez, a French producer with a shady past, including convictions for financial fraud. Martinez promised a substantial budget, which dwindled over time:

• "This movie was filmed in 2005. It had planned theatrical releases from two different distributors, canceled in 2006." [03:51]
• Griffin elaborates on Martinez's financial instability, stating, "Within three years, he went from I got 200 to spend to can someone borrow me 100 so I can get back to zero." [39:09]

The hosts explain how these financial woes led to multiple cancellations of theatrical releases until Blockbuster eventually secured the exclusive rental rights:

• "It was Blockbuster being like. Netflix is starting to gain a little." [03:36]
• "Blockbuster had the exclusive rental rights for this." [04:32]

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Casting and Performances

Michelle Pfeiffer's portrayal of Rosie, the showrunner struggling with her sitcom's declining popularity, is a focal point:

• Griffin notes Pfeiffer's impeccable styling, "She has a lot of stipulations, probably about how she's lit and framed." [10:53]
• David praises Paul Rudd's performance, despite his character's quirks, saying, "He's the best part of this movie and he's a funny, funny man." [10:49]

The dynamic between Pfeiffer and Rudd, marked by a significant age difference, sparks debate:

• "This movie is about a successful divorced woman in her late 40s falls for a hot, charming, up and coming struggling actor in his late 20s." [10:53]
• David humorously comments on Pfeiffer's reluctance to accept Rudd's antics, "Would Michelle Pfeiffer want to fuck him after watching that? Because in the movie she does." [55:50]

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Themes and Storyline Analysis

The movie grapples with themes of aging, relevance in Hollywood, and the complexities of romantic relationships with significant age gaps:

• Griffin reflects, "This movie should be about her experience working on the Clueless TV show and navigating her personal life." [75:05]
• Karen shares a poignant moment from the film, highlighting the mother-daughter relationship: "She was like, I'm ugly and you're beautiful, mom." [76:39]

The inclusion of Tracy Ullman's character, Mother Nature, adds a layer of confusion and surrealism:

• "The weirdest parts... there's no consistent visual vocabulary." [44:37]
• David points out, "Tracy Ullman's character serves no plot purpose." [43:49]

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Critical Reception and Legacy

Despite its troubled production and mixed reviews, the movie holds a peculiar fascination:

• Griffin mentions Nathan Rabin's categorization of the film as a "secret success," suggesting it's more substantial than commonly perceived. [42:40]
• David acknowledges its obscurity, "It's hard to say it's forgotten if most people never knew it existed." [42:44]

The hosts debate whether the movie deserves more recognition for its underlying themes and performances, even if its execution falters:

• Griffin asserts, "There's stuff in it, which is certainly how I feel." [43:03]
• David concurs, "There's a lot of stuff in it that I thought was a good idea." [43:15]

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with reflections on the movie's potential and missed opportunities:

• Griffin emphasizes the disconnect between the protagonist's professional struggles and personal life, lamenting, "You might have made this movie, but you didn't develop this aspect appropriately." [75:25]
• Karen underscores the heartfelt moments, particularly the relationship between Rosie and her daughter, Saoirse Ronan's character, Izzy, stating, "It was so heartwarming and tugged at my heartstrings." [76:39]

The hosts agree that while "I Could Never Be Your Woman" isn't a masterpiece, it offers intriguing insights into Amy Heckerling's career trajectory and the challenges of crafting personal narratives within Hollywood's constraints.

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Notable Quotes

• Griffin Newman [01:19]: "I feel a way about this movie that I wish I felt more about."
• David Sims [10:49]: "He's the best part of this movie and he's a funny, funny man."
• Karen Chee [76:39]: "Do you know off the top of your head what memory you would take?"

---

This episode of Blank Check with Griffin & David offers a comprehensive analysis of Amy Heckerling's "I Could Never Be Your Woman," exploring its production woes, character dynamics, and its nuanced place in the director's body of work. Through engaging discussions and insightful critiques, the hosts shed light on a film that remains a curious artifact in Hollywood's landscape.

Transcript

[Karen]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[David]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[Griffin]

Don't know what to say or to expect.

[David]

All you need to know is that the name of the shadow is Blackjack.

[Griffin]

What's so great about natural?

[David]

What?

[Griffin]

Think about it. Tobacco is natural. Prozac's unnatural. Earthquakes are natural. Podcasts Unnatural. Natural sucks. Now, here's the thing that's interesting about this movie.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

I was quoting lines that are recited by Michelle Pfeiffer, Academy Award nominee.

[David]

Not a winner, though.

[Griffin]

Iconic movie star.

[David]

True.

[Griffin]

Playing a character who is the showrunner of a TV show about teenagers. A very clear stand in for Amy Heckerling, the writer and director of this film. The character she's speaking to is Mother Nature.

[David]

That's right. You didn't. You f. You followed that.

[Griffin]

Right, Right. If you, the listener, have not watched this movie, and I can't imagine this being a film you skipped watching before listening.

[David]

It's on Peacock.

[Griffin]

You're hearing that conversation. Go. What is this? Her talking to a friend. A doctor? No, a. A physical human embodiment of Mother Nature played by Tracy Ulman in what I will say is one of the most normal movies we have ever covered on this podcast.

[David]

So did you watch it with my wife? This movie? Because I watch it with my wife. Did you watch it with my wife?

[Griffin]

Let me remember.

[David]

Okay, so, Jaren, did you watch it with my wife? I watched it with ask you every 10 minutes. Is the character a ghost? Is she with. Can anyone see her? Why is she there? Who is she?

[Griffin]

I feel like only in the last 10 minutes of the movie does Michelle Pfeiffer go, you're a figment of my imagination.

[David]

And I mean, and I had to go to Wikipedia and see that she's listening to Mother Nature and go like, oh, well, it doesn't make sense now, but at least I sort of. I have some idea of what's going on.

[Griffin]

She says it. She self identifies within her opening monologue, but in a way that is so confusing that you assume she's making a joke.

[David]

Yeah, I figured she was just her hippie friend. And then I'm like, no, no, she's a ghost. Or. Right. The embodiment of a natural person.

[Griffin]

This movie opens with footage of animals, nature photographs.

[David]

That's right, I forgot about that.

[Griffin]

Of animals attacking and fudgeing each other. And then cuts to Tracey Ullman seeming filmed on, like, the cameras they shot Jackass on in the middle of a forest, monologuing directly to camera as Mother Nature.

[David]

She's in, like, a white dress with, like, some leaves in her hair, and.

[Griffin]

They'Ve got this really soft green kind of glow around her. And then it just cuts to like, we're here making a teen TV show, and you don't. You have no. Within five minutes, you're like, I have no bearings on what this movie is. 10 out of 10. Perfect film. Thank you all for listening.

[David]

Please remember to see what the show is.

[Griffin]

Oh, okay. It's Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[David]

I'm David.

[Karen]

I'm Karen.

[David]

Yes. I was like, is she going to remember to do that? Oh, my God. Welcome. Yes.

[Griffin]

It's a podcast about filmography. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers, such as making films like Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Clueless, and are given a series of blank checks, make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And then sometimes those checks clear, sometimes they bounce, and sometimes they give you a check, and then you find out the check is, like, half of what you thought it was, and you to make it under very weird circumstances. And then it sits on a shelf for three years and goes direct to Blockbuster.

[David]

It's what this. Do you know? I will tell you. Karen, Karen, this movie. Yeah.

[Griffin]

To my knowledge, this is the only instance of this in history. This was Blockbuster being like. Netflix is starting to gain a little.

[David]

Yeah, it's when Blockbuster isn't exactly booming.

[Griffin]

How do we compete with them?

[Ben]

I was going to say in 2007, did it go to one blockbuster?

[Griffin]

I just want to say this. This movie was filmed in 2005. It had planned theatrical releases from two different distributors, canceled in 2006. Then someone new buys it, plans a release, cancels it again in 2007. And then in 2008, Blockbuster is heavily promoting that. This is a only at Blockbuster film. This film does not exist in any physical form at that point in time, other than you can rent it on a physical disc. You cannot stream it. You cannot rent it digitally, you cannot buy it. Now it is, like, available on other channels. But Blockbuster had the exclusive rental rights for this.

[David]

Well, it'd be weird if it was still only available. Blockbuster. You'd have to go to, like, that one that's in Oregon or whatever.

[Griffin]

This movie would already be fascinating to talk about because it's unhinged and bizarre. And then you read just a little bit about the story of how it got made. And it's three years.

[David]

Is it Oregon or Oregon the state?

[Griffin]

Yeah, I say Oregon.

[Karen]

I say Oregon.

[David]

Oregon. Okay.

[Karen]

What were you saying? Oregon.

[David]

No, I said Oregon, but I'm like, sometimes I know people have a whole thing about how you say it. And when he kicked the thing, he broke his foot, you know, I always.

[Griffin]

Thought it was Portland Strider.

[David]

That's pretty good.

[Griffin]

Thank you. That's like an okay joke, right? Today we're talking about Amy Heckerling's 2005. Scratch that. 2006. Scratch that. 2007. Scratch that 2008 release. I could never be your woman.

[David]

You couldn't, you couldn't. You could never be my woman. A movie where the title references a song that's good, but so old that I bought it on cassette when it came out. White town's your woman.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

In 1997. I was like, I'm gonna get my prepubescent ass to Virgin Megastores to buy this hot single on cassette. Griff, I own it on cassette.

[Griffin]

It is. Was it a single or was it a single? It was a cassette, yes.

[David]

It had, like, one B side.

[Griffin]

We were just talking about right before this. David was mocking guests who are quiet during the levels check and then get really loud. And now within five minutes, David is yelling because single at full volume.

[David]

Right? I had the Casingals. It's a good song. You know that song?

[Ben]

No.

[David]

For crying out loud.

[Karen]

Wait, was the song in the movie?

[David]

It is in the movie. Quite.

[Griffin]

I can never be a woman.

[David]

Oh, that's a good one. I can never be a woman. Yeah, it's. You know, that's what it is there. That's what it's based on.

[Griffin]

We are at the title, 20th anniversary of this film being shot. Right? And when it finally came out in 2008, there's an incredible Entertainment Weekly article. And Heckerling says, like, this was my nightmare. This film is coming out three years late, and all the references don't make sense anymore.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

And I haven't tried to be a hypertopical filmmaker in my life, but there are like, 15 jokes that specifically, specifically now are meaningless. So then anytime there was, like, a music cue, I'd be like, okay, so was that a new release song at the time? She was filming this, and you look it up and, like, a lot of them are 1998. So you're like, it's a movie shot in 2005 with a lot of pop culture references from 1998 that then came out in 2008. It's like two levels of disconnected.

[David]

Look, we're gonna talk about it. Karen, you'd never seen this movie. Oh, who's our guest?

[Griffin]

This is a miniseries on the films of Amy Heckerling. It's called Pod Times at Richmond Cast yesterday returning the show is Karen Chi. Yeah, the great Karen Chi. I forgot to ask if you want any specific introduction.

[Karen]

Oh, no.

[Griffin]

But you introduced yourself.

[Karen]

I refused to be introduced.

[David]

Queen Karen.

[Karen]

Queen Karen.

[Griffin]

Queen of the best. So wait, I'm surprised you didn't rent I could never be your woman from Blockbuster in 2008.

[Karen]

No, I should have. What was I doing?

[David]

Well, what were you doing? How old were you in 2008?

[Karen]

I was 13 in 2008. Okay. So, yeah, leave the house. Yeah, I was allowed to leave.

[David]

Spending money problem.

[Griffin]

At Saoirse age. You were practicing social slut shaming parody.

[David]

Songs in your prank calling Henry Winkler.

[Karen]

I was being a slut and prank.

[Griffin]

Calling Henry Winkler being a slut and making fun of pop stars for being sluts.

[Karen]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, right.

[Griffin]

Taking lessons from your mom on how to be a more effective slut.

[David]

I think their relationship is good in this movie. There's a lot of things in this movie that I was like, we're close.

[Griffin]

I agree with you.

[David]

We're close to cooking.

[Griffin]

I agree with you. And like, I feel a way about this movie that I wish I felt more about. Like, let's say late period, James L. Brooks, where I'm like, I can see it now.

[David]

Karen, wait. I don't want to blow up your spot. Karen.

[Karen]

Okay, so I'll be quiet.

[Griffin]

What were you doing?

[David]

So last time you were on this podcast was for I'm a cyborg, but that's okay. The Bong Joon Ho comedy, tragic comedy, whatever you want to call it. When was that, Griff? Like, two years ago.

[Griffin]

Yeah, sounds right.

[David]

Bong Joon Ho, when it was like a Park Jeon Wook. Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. That was very offensive.

[Griffin]

Cancel David.

[David]

And you were like, I'm not a huge movie person.

[Karen]

Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

[David]

Now you are a movie person.

[Griffin]

Transformation has happened.

[David]

Karen joined Letterbox and she is logging. Karen is. Every week there's two or three new logs and like, Broadcast News.

[Griffin]

I love Broadcast News.

[David]

Is something Karen logged and was like, where's this movie been all my life?

[Griffin]

One of the best movies, one of my 10 favorite movies. But I don't know if you've seen the second half of his career.

[Karen]

I don't know. I don't. I don't.

[David]

Probably not.

[Karen]

Not sure what it means. Well, I mean, I understand what it means. I just don't know where in his career it falls.

[Griffin]

I mean, the real follow up, Spanglish is a film that Ben Adores Spanglish.

[David]

Yeah.

[Karen]

Thank you for your contribution, Ben.

[Ben]

You're welcome.

[Griffin]

How do you know a Paul Rudd film?

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Another Kind of Curse. Production Reese Witherspoon, Owen Wilson, Jack Nicholson's final film. He's got a new film coming out this year.

[David]

Oh, oh, James L. Brooks.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

Yes. It's called Ella McKay.

[Griffin]

Broadcast news is so perfect.

[Karen]

Yes.

[Griffin]

That like my standards are so high. Every time he finally makes something new and I watch it and I'm just like the faintest glimmers. I can see it there. But how did this guy lose it? This feels like you can fully see the successful version of this movie.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

It's just like surrounded in mania and chaos. But it's not even like, oh, fuck, that's like half a good scene. It's like all of the threads kind of make sense from a distance.

[Karen]

Yeah. I was just gonna say, I think the biggest issue for me with this movie is that I think it would have worked better if Michelle Pfeiffer were less hot. Right.

[David]

Look, Michelle Pfeiffer should be less hot. Paul Rudd should be less old. God bless Paul Rudd. I love you so much.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

Love you dearly. But I have to imagine she needed a movie star to get this movie made. And she knew Paul Rudd very well, having made another movie with him. And that's how that all happened. I'll open the dossier and look to find out more. But certainly a movie where Michelle Pfeiffer is stressed out about how young Paul Rudd is should not feature a seasoned 35 year old Paul Rudd. Like, I just, I love Paul Rudd's.

[Griffin]

Here's the crazy.

[David]

He's the best part of this movie and he's a funny, funny man.

[Griffin]

Here's this movie. If anything, if there's, if there's a central hook to this film, it's successful divorced woman in her late 40s falls for hot, charming, up and coming struggling actor in his late 20s. And they navigate. Can this relationship work despite the age difference and us being in different places in our careers? Right. Michelle Pfeiffer ages beautifully. Yeah, she's gorgeous. She had aged beautifully at that time. She has continued to age beautifully.

[David]

Stunning, luminous creature.

[Griffin]

Right. But so in a movie, she like, everything's falling apart. You're like, God, what I would give for things to fall apart.

[David]

Instead, my wife and I are for 20 minutes, like, how could she have been married to Lovett's. What's this Lovett? Anyway, carry on.

[Griffin]

Paul Rudd in this movie is supposed to be 29. That's like a twist. Oh, my God. You're even younger than I thought.

[David]

Right? Yeah.

[Griffin]

We all like to joke about Paul Rudd being immortal and aging so well, but he was 35 when they shot this. He was 38 by the time it came out. There is no part of him that feels like a 29 year old. And like, most brutally, this movie comes out six months after Knocked up, which I think there's a dividing line there of, like, once Paul Rudd has been reframed in a movie as, like, he could be a family man.

[David]

Yeah, that's actually fascinating.

[Griffin]

Right?

[David]

What a weird career was shot two years before.

[Griffin]

Like, when you've seen him raising Judd Apatow's children, you're like, this guy's not a boy.

[David]

Yeah, for sure. But that also just reminds me that when Paul Rudd was in Knocked up, very good performance, the line on him was still like, no one's figured out what a movie star this guy is. And it's like a year later that we get role models, and then I love you, man, and stuff. And then it's like, okay, we finally realized that Hollywood's finally realized, which is.

[Griffin]

A big part of that. I mean, Apatow sort of saw it and then Knocked up finally gives him the juice to start, like, developing his own movies and co writing them. I think that's the other big part of it, is him not being slotted into shit and, like, working with his own collaborators or, like, helping make the movie.

[David]

Oh, my God. There's so much to discuss. This film. Do you know in Spain where this film was first released, this film was called El Novio Di Mi Madre.

[Griffin]

Spain was.

[David]

I think My Mother's Boyfriend is what it was called.

[Griffin]

Spain's the only country where I think it got a theatrical release.

[Karen]

Wait, what? Why?

[David]

It was where it first got a theatrical release. Not only. Yeah. But a year earlier in 2007, it was released in Spain because the Spanish love, you know, industry comedy, like insider sitcom, ax grinding. They're all like that.

[Griffin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I bought a duck.

[David]

And this movie does have the overlit insanity of an Almodovar movie. Well, we're gonna get.

[Griffin]

We're gonna get to that. I bought a Dutch Blu Ray of this movie because I believe it was the only country in which it was released in.

[David]

And the tariffs meant that was like, $48.

[Griffin]

I got in pre tariffs. The benefit of us planning the show far in advance, but it's like, I would. I'm a dork who wants the physical media of the movies we Cover. And I, like, look at the history of our show kind of way.

[Karen]

I remember this.

[Griffin]

And it's used Blockbuster DVDs or Dutch Blu Ray. Nothing in between. Yeah, everything about this movie is fascinating. Karen, I had heard people referring to you as Kenny Chi recently, and I was confused as to why you had gotten that nickname.

[Karen]

Oh, wait.

[Griffin]

But it's because your logins on Letterbox are through the roof. I didn't realize you'd become such a movie fan.

[Karen]

Wait, as Kenny Chi?

[Griffin]

Kenny Loggins. I was saying that the nickname is.

[David]

Just did the worst joke of all time.

[Griffin]

Because you're doing logins. I'm circling back to something David said 10 years ago.

[Karen]

Here's the shocking thing, is that my dad's name is Kenny Chi.

[David]

Is he really?

[Karen]

I was like, who is calling me that? My dad loves Kenny G so much that when he immigrated to the US From South Korea, he named himself.

[David]

Wait, whoa. He took the name Kenny in honor of Mr. G.

[Karen]

He doesn't understand why this is funny. Like, I talk about it. I used to joke about this. He didn't understand. No. He sincerely loves Kenny G. The musician.

[David]

Did he love Kenny G in Korea? Like, he. He was like, arriving in America, being like, if I know one thing, it's.

[Griffin]

Kenny G. Was Kenny G why he came to America? Was he like, the whole country must be guys like this.

[Karen]

Oh, my God. Imagine how disappointed he would have been. No, I don't think that's why. But he's like, such a weird, goofy guy who's very sincere all the time, and I think doesn't realize he's very funny.

[David]

Sounds cool.

[Griffin]

What's his.

[David]

What does he do? What's your dad do?

[Karen]

My dad works in cargo for an airline company.

[David]

Hell yeah.

[Karen]

Yeah. Cool guy.

[David]

One of my sons just did a big poop.

[Karen]

Oh, I should.

[David]

I should read it aloud every time I get those texts. I get a text every time my children poop. Poop.

[Karen]

Oh, okay.

[David]

Not my daughter at this point.

[Griffin]

I do, too, weirdly. And I keep hitting unsubscribe. I keep getting them.

[David]

So what was I going to say? I could never be a woman. So. So, Karen, you're coming.

[Karen]

Kenny Loggins.

[David]

Yeah, Karen. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

But Karen's a cinephile now is the point.

[David]

Cuz you love cinema now.

[Griffin]

You were on. You were like, here are the types of movies I'd love to come back on for. And you were throwing out a lot of children's films.

[David]

Right? Which is fine. I love kids.

[Griffin]

But movies.

[Karen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

But you were like, when's the next animated thing. Like, are you going to do Paddington on Patreon?

[Karen]

Yes.

[Griffin]

That's what you were pushing us towards to keep you in mind for.

[Karen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David]

I text you. Oh, we're doing heckling. She's done a lot of romcoms and stuff, I imagine, you know, and you're like, oh, Paul, you know, we'll do this movie that no one's ever seen. And you love Paul R. Karen, you watched the Bakery Girl of Monso.

[Karen]

I did.

[David]

Isn't it so good?

[Karen]

Yes.

[David]

You got to watch all those. You got to watch them all.

[Karen]

I gotta. I gotta keep. Keep going through.

[David]

You're having to look at these logs. She's got True Grit, Saving Private Ryan, which made you watch Saving Private Ryan.

[Karen]

Here's what happened is my mom went back to school like, a year and a half ago, and she's taking a US History class. And on her syllabus, Saving Private Ryan was like, a recommended watch.

[David]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen]

So she came home. I was visiting home. She came home from school and to my dad was like, oh, like, do you guys want to watch a movie? And we were like, yeah, cute movie night. She went, we're watching Saving Private Ryan.

[David]

I mean, I like Saving Private Ryan. It's just. Just not the chillest watch.

[Karen]

No, it was really intense, I would say. And I. Yeah, we all cried.

[Griffin]

It's maybe the most stressed I've ever felt watching a movie.

[David]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, look. Great movie, that. But I mean, just look at. Look at this. You know, this. This Aaron Brockovich.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

Conclave. Chantal Aerman's news from home. Like, I love. You know, I like it when a curveball like that pops up.

[Griffin]

It's so fascinating because the streets kept on whispering the name Kenny Chi. And I said, karen's dad, who works in cargo for airlines. And they were like, no, don't. You know that's Karen's nickname now because she be loggings.

[Karen]

That's a really good joke.

[Griffin]

Thank you.

[Karen]

Really good joke.

[Griffin]

Sometimes you just have to beat it and take a second pass.

[Karen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

Sorry.

[Karen]

I wasn't smart enough the first time.

[David]

I told you.

[Griffin]

No, no. I just. I hit a level of truth I didn't understand, and I had to reframe the joke around it.

[Karen]

You're right. You're right.

[David]

So I told you we're going to do this movie. You watch this film. What do you think of I could never be your woman? Just. Just, you know, initial impression, that's all. I just want to hear that.

[Karen]

It was so Bonkers. I guess I have three initial impressions. One is, it was so bonkers. Two is Saoirse Ronan was incredible.

[David]

She's really locked in. It is kind of one of those things where, like, damn, you lucked out with this casting. Like, it is 99 out of 100. I know, I know.

[Griffin]

And it's, like, as wild and bonkers as this movie must have felt in 2008, with every passing year and the evolution of Saoirse Ronan's care, it becomes that much stranger that it's. That's her. She's this good.

[Karen]

Yeah. She's so charismatic, like, so. She really is so charming.

[David]

She's great. She's great. Saoirse Ronan is in this film, but.

[Griffin]

Absolute disconnect from everything else for the rest of, like, she does this and then she immediately does Atonement in the Lovely Bones.

[Karen]

Wow.

[Griffin]

Like, she does two child performances that are like, yes, this is representative of who she will be as an adult actor. She gets an Oscar nomination for Atonement as a.

[David]

This is her most ladybird coded performance of the three.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[Karen]

You know, she wants to be called a different name.

[David]

That is true. She does debut that late in the film. It doesn't come up again. She's like, I want to be called Drew.

[Griffin]

Weird Drew.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

She's doing, like, Weird Al stuff.

[David]

Yeah. Anyway, so those are. Your first impression was bonkers. Second impression was Thirsty. We're not so good. What was your third impression?

[Karen]

The third impression was I was like, Amy Heckerling must have just watched Peep show and been like, I want those people in my movie.

[David]

Well, that was a true. My brain started where I was like, oh, it's funny. There's an English actor, Sarah Alexander. I know her. And then, like, it keeps happening where I'm like, why is everyone English? Like, is this, like a trick? Olivia Colman in it with no David Mitchell, obviously. You know, Graham Norton, like. But, like. And then you learn, okay, a lot of it was shot in Britain. And that helps, I understand, believe, because I was.

[Griffin]

I was trying to watch closely. I believe this was shot entirely in Britain, other than, like, second unit exterior.

[David]

Well, and there's that. They're on the lot that one time where I'm like, they must have gone to the. The lot.

[Griffin]

I think they got like a day on the lot in between sound stages.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

And then every other exterior shot of la, you don't see actors in.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

And any shot that is clearly real la and.

[David]

But all the sets, which were so, you know, finely constructed and well lit. Like, they. They were locations, right? They were real places. You.

[Griffin]

Your letterbox log. And for a second I thought I was looking at Karen's page and I said, at Kenny.

[Karen]

But no, keep bringing back.

[Griffin]

I'm gonna.

[Karen]

Every time.

[Griffin]

Yeah. I don't know if that one tracks internally. But you said this film is lit by Satan.

[David]

I mean, it's just insane. And you know, again, my wife, who is less, you know, she's. She's watching a film for story and dialogue and, you know, character. But even she was sort of like, why does it look this way? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

But I would say to her, like, Clueless looks incredible. Like, obvious. The great Bill Pope shot Clueless. Great cinematographer.

[Griffin]

But do you know who shot Brian.

[David]

Tifano, who is shot train spotting in a lot of Danny Boyle movies and.

[Griffin]

Shot like Mike Lee and Ken Lope films.

[David]

So I don't know what's going on. My only theory was that Michelle Pfeiffer was like, you must bounce stadium lighting off my face at all times.

[Griffin]

I think that is some of it. But I also think this speaks to sort of like the weird mania around this movie, the bonkers feeling, right? And it's just like this is the kind of that, like, up careers, right? She's got the script she wants to do. Every studio is like, it's a comedy about a woman over the age of 40 who wants to see that. You know, she's like, I got Michelle Pfeiffer. They're like, michelle Pfeiffer. She hasn't been a movie in five years. We don't know if she's valuable. Some weird, eccentric guy who we'll talk about deeply in a moment once we get to the dossier, is like, I love this script. I'll give you $20 million to make it right now. This is true provision. You have to film the entire movie in Great Britain. Wait. And you get to these turning points. No, but clearly he found some tie in of like, you probably got a.

[David]

Tax break or something.

[Griffin]

And this guy was later was, I think, convicted for financial fraud both right before and right after this movie.

[Karen]

Jeffrey Epstein.

[Griffin]

It was Jeffrey. No, this guy who we'll talk about.

[David]

Like, really, really, really weird. If it was Jeffrey Epstein, that would be quite a twist.

[Griffin]

That's the one thing that could make this movie more insane.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Is if Jeffrey Epst financed it just because he liked the script about a movie about older women. These moments that like, define someone's career, where they're like, here's the great news. $20 million, you can make your movie. Stipulation, you have to film the whole thing in Britain. And you're like, huh? It's a Hollywood industry comedy that takes place mostly on black lot backlots.

[David]

It's true, this is not the best student. I mean, Britain has sound stages. But it is true that it is an LA comic.

[Griffin]

They don't call it Sunny London. And so I do feel this sense of a great cinematographer who didn't generally shoot in.

[David]

In la la, but also, like, didn't.

[Griffin]

Shoot, like, broad comedies. He's got a movie star who has, like, a lot of stipulations, probably about how she's lit and framed. And then they're just like, we need to overcompensate for shooting in a drab, foggy town, I guess. So let's direct the sun at them.

[David]

I mean, the full. It's like the space laser from Die Another Day is on now.

[Griffin]

But it also. Then you have this entire supporting cast that's like all British actors. Because it's clearly like, okay, Amy Heckerling got to pick her, like, six regulars who they would fly over. Right. And then every other part is played by someone from the uk.

[David]

It's five. I think she gets. She gets Pfeiffer, Rudd, Stacey Dash from Clueless. Have you seen Clueless?

[Karen]

I have seen Clueless, yeah.

[David]

You know, one of her more successful films. Stacey Dash is the best friend in Clueless. She plays.

[Griffin]

Love it.

[David]

The star here, John Lovett and Fred Willard. I feel like those are the five.

[Griffin]

You're forgetting Wallace. Sean.

[David]

One. One great scene on Wallace. You're not wrong. You're not.

[Griffin]

But you have, like, right. Twin Kaplan on the couch. Non speaking. I think she was a producer on this movie.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

So that's not.

[David]

But that's about it. I mean, even Tracy Ullman, as much as she's a Hollywood figure, that's a Brit.

[Griffin]

It's why Saoirse ends up in this movie, I have to imagine, of course.

[David]

Because of child labor. Shit. Right.

[Griffin]

It's why the whole supporting cast is like, she has enough taste to be like, if I'm filming in the UK, who are like the 10 funniest on the cusp people of British comedy television.

[Karen]

That's true.

[Griffin]

But it lends a very weird air to this movie where you're like, everyone just sounds a little off.

[David]

Do you like Britain?

[Karen]

I. Yeah, yeah, sure.

[David]

Have you been?

[Karen]

I have been. I. Well, I was gonna say I wonder because everybody is doing an American accent. Except for David Mitchell.

[David]

David Mitchell, who I think probably just cannot.

[Karen]

Yeah. I was wondering. I wonder if there's, like an audition tape somewhere where it's him trying his best.

[David]

Hey, guys. Like, he's so English. I just cannot imagine.

[Karen]

So English. Like. Yeah, if you were nasally L. A, it wouldn't work.

[David]

He has a detective show now. You know how like. Like, if you get to be, you know, you hit your sort of late 40s, early 50s, you're in the mix for like, a show where you go to some, like, gray beach and you're like, oh, you know, they. They killed the old mayor or whatever. Right. You know, you got to solve a crime. He's got one now.

[Griffin]

Does he?

[David]

Hook.

[Griffin]

Is there a gimmick?

[David]

I hope he has a hook hand. That'd be fun.

[Griffin]

That'd be a good gimmick.

[David]

Called Detective. Hook Detective show. It's just so. It's called Ludwig.

[Karen]

Ooh.

[David]

And he's. Oh, yes.

[Karen]

What?

[David]

He's a reclusive puzzle maker who publishes puzzle books under the pen name Ludwig.

[Griffin]

Sounds.

[David]

Oh, my God. Wait, this has way too much business. He has an identical twin brother who goes missing.

[Griffin]

Played by him as well, I assume.

[David]

Yep. And so he has to pretend to be his brother. What? And then he gets in. Bro, this sounds very, very going.

[Griffin]

More.

[David]

Oh, my God. Because, you know, it's always like, oh, they. Richard Griffith plays, like, a meat pie.

[Griffin]

He runs a pie shop.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

He's a retired detective who runs a pie shop. And people keep luring back in for one more case.

[David]

Or there's this show. There was this British TV show called Rosemary and Time with Felicity Kendall and Pam Ferris. To lovely old lady actors who were gardening detectives. Incredible. Like, they were like full time gardeners. Part time. Oops. Someone's dead in the bushes. We gotta solve the mystery. Wow. Really cool. This is all Britain has.

[Karen]

There's also. I just saw, like, new release stills of Thursday Murder Club that's coming out later this year. That's also just like a cast of the cutest old British actors just solving a murder mystery together.

[David]

Here we go.

[Karen]

Helen Mirren is in it.

[David]

Marin Brosnan, who you. You just have to rattle pennies in front of that guy. And he will sign on, I swear to God. Ben Kingsley.

[Griffin]

Can I sing? Will you let me sing in this one?

[David]

Hell, Jonathan, this sounds good.

[Karen]

It sounds amazing.

[David]

Directed it. Who directed? Chris Columbus. Whoa. Director of Home Alone Weird and Chris.

[Karen]

Christmas Chronicles and one of the Harry Potter movies.

[David]

The first two. Harry Potter. He did open the Chamber of Secrets yeah, because he speaks parcel tongue. It's a little joke.

[Karen]

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[Griffin]

There's a universe in which they go, hey, you have to film this movie in the uk. And she goes, well, Britain has a big television industry. I can make it about British people making a British show or one American woman running a British TV show, but it feels like she has. This movie is so much her grinding axis with LA culture in particular and the like nature of the American show business, like, complex, that the moment they're like, hey, we'll make your movie if you agree to film it in a place that will never look like la.

[David]

Yeah, it will not really vibe.

[Griffin]

Yeah, right. I just think she, like, should have put her foot down. Now the tough question is, if that happens, does the movie never get made?

[David]

Movie probably never gets made. And she. She's probably like this. Like you're sort of saying, this thing's already going to feel out of date soon. This is me going through my experiences of the late 90s. Let me talk about it a little bit in the dossier so we have the appropriate context. So Emma Herkling's a filmmaker, American filmmaker. Karen made Fast Times, Ridgemont High. Look who's talking.

[Ben]

Clueless.

[David]

Then she makes Loser with Jason Biggs and Mina Suvari. It's not a big hit.

[Griffin]

And most relevant to this film, after the success of Clueless, she launches the Clueless TV show that runs for three seasons.

[Karen]

I didn't know there was a TV show.

[Griffin]

It's fairly successful.

[David]

You don't know that because we all agreed to forget about it.

[Karen]

It did.

[David]

Okay. It was a TGIF show.

[Griffin]

It had one season as part of the TGIF lineup, and then it moved over to UPN for two more seasons.

[David]

Bumped to upn, which was a network back in the day, that things would get bumped over to.

[Griffin]

Stacy Dash reprised her role.

[David]

Yeah, Some of the Clueless cast returned. Most of the stars did not. But then she makes Loser, which is not. Which is a box office disappointment. And then Heckerling gets attached to a bunch of stuff. She was in negotiations to write a pilot for Tori Spelling that didn't happen. Probably good. She was in talks to remake the serene fucking Japanese masterpiece Afterlife, the Corieda movie.

[Griffin]

Stunning discovery from so Good.

[David]

Which is a movie you would like if you've never seen it.

[Griffin]

That's great.

[David]

It's a movie about when people die. They go to like a waiting room where they have a week to figure out like what memory they want to take with them into the afterlife. Basically by making a little movie. It is so cool.

[Karen]

Do you know off the top of your head what memory you would take?

[David]

No. What the fuck?

[Karen]

I need seven days, Griffin.

[David]

What about you?

[Griffin]

I need eight days.

[David]

You're screwed, Griffin.

[Karen]

My memories of this taping.

[David]

What if that was it? Ben loves it when we do applause bits.

[Griffin]

I, I just, I, I want to throw out. Well a. It's so funny because you're just like, why was she gonna remake like Afterlife? And then when you describe it, like, give it the 5 second pitch like you did to Karen right now. It does sort of make sense to go like, there is a wildly different version of that movie. Yeah, there is like an ability to take that logline and turn it into like a 90s studio comedy.

[David]

I think so. Like a sweet comedy and its own thing. And its own thing. But that doesn't. Fox was attached, but it doesn't happen. At one point she's announced to be doing a. A comedy pilot at ABC that was going to be kind of a Love Boat type show with like a lot of celebrity guests. She was announced in 2003 as the director of a film called Sweat, which was gonna be a sort of shampoo style movie set in the world of personal training about like a lothario who beds his clients. That never came together. Then she's, she and Vince Vaughn are gonna make a movie called no Place Like Home where Vince Vaughn was gonna play, oh, a cocky character that's interesting who's upwardly mobile and has the world at his fingertips and a deep aversion to his parents. But he breaks up with his girlfriend and has to move into his family home in Long Island. Okay, whatever. Anyway, so that doesn't happen either. So instead she's thinking about this movie that she makes while she's working on the first season of Clueless and raising her 10 year old daughter Molly on her own. In the mid-90s, Amy Heckling was a single mom and she's ambivalent because she's like, I'm working on this show. It's promoting these unrealistic standards of beauty. It's a bad show for young Girls or whatever. Like, it's a bad, you know, image. And I've got this kid. So she. That clash is what's animating her here. Okay.

[Griffin]

Which isn't an interesting setup for a movie. Right. Like, someone who is professionally continuing to perpetuate a fantasy version of high school life, then also going home and dealing with a real child, where I'm like, that's actually.

[Karen]

Yeah, I would love to.

[Griffin]

The most interesting, unique kind of angle this movie has and, like, a very personal experience where you're like, oh, she's the person to write this. No one else could tell this story. It does feel like that is kind of the least developed aspect in the final film, despite the fact that Saoirse is really good. I also just want a snapshot because I just. I think it's kind of interesting. Like, Clueless is so big, right? It's like a surprise hit. And then when it goes on video, it sells, like, through the roof. It keeps getting bigger. They get this TV show on the air really quickly versus, like, Baby Talk, the Look who's Talking show that she wasn't involved in, and Fast Times, which only ran for, like, eight episodes. This is her third movie spawning a TV show. And she's more involved in this, right?

[David]

She is.

[Griffin]

She is. And so she, like, only directed episodes in the first seasons, but, like, remained an executive producer on this, remained involved in it. Which means that, like, in a way, she is kind of losing the cachet from the success of Clueless by focusing on the Clueless movie or the series. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Karen]

I see what you mean.

[Griffin]

Having success and that she's running her own TV show, but she's also kind of letting the heat dissipate from the fact that she's coming off a hit movie. So by the time she cashes in and she's like, I'm ready to make another movie again, she makes Loser. It's a bomb. And now it's like the early 2000s, and you're like, well, she's not totally dinged because she's made enough hits that she can keep attaching herself to big like this. But suddenly she's in this position where it's like, oh, Amy, herculing hasn't had a hit movie in almost 10 years. Like, it's just kind of the air is all out of the balloon.

[David]

You know, I'm gonna skip all the Chris Kattan stuff. It's way too long. I'm not doing that right now. We have. We have to discuss this movie. And also just people can Google the Chris Kattan stuff. Amy Heckerling denies all the Chris Kattan stuff. Chris Kattan has his. You guys got to just read that yourself. It's too much for me to get into. Especially because it has nothing to do with this movie.

[Griffin]

People theorize that this movie is about Chris Kattan. And I strongly do not think it is.

[David]

What would it. Oh, like. Like Paul Rudd is supposed to be like Chris Kattan. Interesting. I don't think so.

[Griffin]

They're.

[David]

Well, I don't know.

[Griffin]

Can I just say this very second version of it?

[David]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

Chris Kattan and Amy Heckerling had an affair during the filming of A Night at the Roxbury which she was executive producer on. That is uncontested fact.

[Karen]

Whoa. Okay.

[Griffin]

What is contested is Chris Katana's book claimed that he was pressured by Lauren Michaels and the studio to have said affair in order to encourage her to direct the movie rather than just produce. And Amy Heckerling and his daughter have a very different series of events. And that he had an affair where he was cheating on Jennifer Coolidge.

[David]

What?

[Griffin]

His at the time long term girlfriend who was also in Night at the.

[David]

Roxbury with Eliza Donovan.

[Griffin]

Of Clueless. No, of up with Heckerling. And then cheats on Heckerling with Eliza Donovan. So he's sleeping with three different women.

[David]

Production of this movie get up to.

[Griffin]

And that the whole pressure thing doesn't really make sense because she was already working on the film. But they didn't really actually start to get to know each other until after the film was already in production. What have you.

[David]

All of this is just response was, he's a nut. When she was asked about all this and she was just like, I'm not gonna comment.

[Griffin]

Lauren Michaels has been like, what are you talking about? There's just a lot of information out there. I'll let people go down the rabbit hole.

[David]

It would be funny if Lorne Michaels, his official statement was just that, like he called the Times.

[Griffin]

It just needs to be acknowledged because this movie being such a like odd hidden object.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Just sort of ignored when people started being like, what is this thing? A couple years ago, a lot of people jump to the conclusions that's about her and Katan because they had an age difference. I don't think it is.

[David]

So she writes this movie. Nobody wants to make it because it's about an older female protagonist. And Hollywood isn't really that interested in it. But Michelle Pfeiffer gets her hands on it. Michelle Pfeiffer's career has also been slowing down. I would say post what Lies Beneath. She doesn't really have a big hit. Right.

[Griffin]

She does what Lies Beneath. She does I Am Sam and White Oleander, which were both sort of meant to be Oscar plays for her that didn't get her nominations.

[David]

She's good in white.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

But it's not a good movie, and she's good.

[Griffin]

And I Am Sam, and it's not a good movie. I think she's good.

[David]

She's fine.

[Griffin]

I mean, I always like her.

[Karen]

Is she Sam?

[David]

No, no, no, no. I Am Sam is the movie where Sean Penn plays a mentally challenged person.

[Karen]

Oh.

[Griffin]

Who is raising Dakota Fanning, his daughter. And she's now getting to the age where they think she's beyond him intellectually. And Michelle Pfeiffer is the lawyer who's trying to fight for his rights to retain correct custody.

[Karen]

This is so devastating.

[David]

It's a. It's a weepy. It's not good. It's very bad. And Sean Penn's performance in it is one of those things where you're like, oh, my God, like, who allowed this to happen?

[Griffin]

He got an Oscar nomination. And it's the movie that, like, presented Dakota Fang to the world and made her, like, the child star. So Michelle Pfeiffer kind of gets no bump from that movie.

[Karen]

Gotcha.

[David]

Well, she's also playing a character that she plays a lot in the 90s on, which is the sort of leggy, pantsuited lawyer or workaholic lady who's like, I'm so gorgeous, but I'm so busy and no one will hold me together. You know what I mean? Like, oh, so hard to be me. Like, I'm doing this because she's always, like, throwing cell phones and bags and.

[Griffin]

Stuff around because she's so busy rolling her saucer eyes.

[David]

Yes. And so after those two movies.

[Griffin]

But then White Oleander was supposed to be a psychological play for her, and it. It doesn't really go anywhere. And then she takes several years off.

[David]

Several years off. And this is the next movie she makes. And she wants to make this movie, obviously, because it's a very big roll. Meaty, interesting. Probably themes that appeal to her. Amy Heckerling's a real director. Philippe Martinez, a French producer, has a bit of a checkered past. He had served time in prison for fraud. Oh, well, in France, though, where you get, like, baguettes and stuff.

[Karen]

Okay, cool.

[David]

I don't know if you actually get baguettes. And he has a $200 million line of credit. So he claims. I'm not sure if he does. So he greenlights this film for a 20 million dollar, like, budget.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

But Parkerling does send some red flags.

[Griffin]

They. They basically, this guy gets out of French prison.

[Karen]

Okay.

[Griffin]

Shows up in LA in a chauffeured Bentley.

[David]

He's got a big cigar, smoking cigars.

[Griffin]

Like, storming into meetings saying, like, I have $200 million to spend. People show me scripts.

[Karen]

Wow.

[Griffin]

And this is like one of his first big moves. And Heckerlings basically said that as the movie was filming, they. She kept getting told that the budget was lowering. She was like, this guy said he had $200 million and was giving me 20, comfortably, for this film. And suddenly the number keeps going down week by week. So, like, the movie is shrinking as they're making it.

[David]

He makes them film it in London, which is a problem. Indeed. He does keep saying the budget is going down.

[Karen]

Wait, sorry. So it started off being $200 million.

[Griffin]

He said he had $200 million put towards film finance.

[David]

Then he started saying he had $100 million.

[Griffin]

It is still a lot by the time this movie finally came out.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

He said he was $100 million in debt. So somehow within three years, he went from I got 200 to spend to can someone borrow me 100 so I can get back to zero.

[David]

So Michelle Pfeiffers paid $1 million, which is below her. Below her quote. But she will also get between 10 to 15% of the film's first dollar grosses.

[Karen]

Wow.

[David]

Which is very unusual to be giving them actual money versus profit.

[Griffin]

But this is. Right.

[David]

This is a bit of a problem.

[Griffin]

Movie financed entirely by some maverick outsider who's willing to do that in order to secure a bigger star who usually would maybe, like, would probably take that budget to $30 million on her own.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

If they're paying her full salary.

[David]

Heckling is also promised this later becomes.

[Griffin]

The beginning of the end.

[David]

It would be a huge issue.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

The film is then put on the shelf, apparently tested. Well, I'm not sure where they tested it. No offense. And then they're like, we're not releasing this. If that's. If Michelle gets 15% of the gross.

[Griffin]

Like, they screen it, MGM agrees to acquire it. Then they find out about this deal. They crunch the numbers and they're like, we estimate the movie's gonna make this amount, and if we have to give away Michelle Pfeiffer that much, then we don't want to do it. So they just hand it back.

[Karen]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin]

They Spend a year trying to find a new distributor.

[David]

At that point, Mr. Martinez has no money, as he.

[Griffin]

If he ever had any money, he's got negative money.

[David]

So he sold the DVD rights to the Weinstein Company, a normal and good company that does normal things.

[Griffin]

But he does that first while trying to find a new theatrical distributor.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Then he finds this company, Freestyle Releasing. That was very much kind of the ketchup entertainment of its day, where it's like, do you just contractually need to get a movie out in theaters? We're like a distributor for hire. They agree to do it. They announce a release date in 2007. It's going to be released on 1500 screens.

[David]

Freestyle releases.

[Griffin]

And then, like, weeks before it's going to come out, they pull it off the schedule.

[David]

Correct.

[Griffin]

Because they found out that they didn't have DVD rights, which hadn't been told to them. And at that point, DVD is still really big. And they're like, if we don't have dvd, then we don't want to release this movie.

[David]

Her going calls it like cutting the legs off of a baby and then being like, take my baby. It's still cute. Just kind of a gruesome thing to say. So instead, it came out in Spain. In Spain, it grossed $9.5 million globally.

[Karen]

Okay.

[David]

Which isn't very good, but it's not often.

[Karen]

Yeah. I wouldn't say no to that amount of money.

[David]

Well, lucky for you, right here, I have a check here for you for $9.5 million.

[Griffin]

He's been waiting for someone to say that. They wouldn't say no. He's had the check on the desk for years.

[David]

And so it came out direct to video.

[Griffin]

Right. Makes the blockbuster deal. And that is the ultimate fate of this movie. Yeah.

[David]

And Paul Rudd said he felt bad. It's a real shame. He was afraid some of the jokes would feel stale if it, you know, got.

[Griffin]

Was right.

[David]

Yeah, sure. The film got poor reviews and is forgotten, I would say, until a little podcast called Blank Check decided to focus on it.

[Griffin]

I was gonna say it's hard to say it's forgotten if most people never knew it existed.

[Karen]

Sure.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

It's not really known.

[Griffin]

It's not really known. Nathan Rabin did a piece on it for his My Year flop series years ago.

[David]

What did he give it? Fiasco, flop or secret success?

[Griffin]

I believe he gave it a secret success and said, like, this is much more of a movie than I thought it would be. You can see the kind of shape of it. This is Amy Herling. She's like a personal filmmaker.

[Karen]

Wow.

[Griffin]

It's not perfect, but there's, like, stuff in it, which is certainly how I feel. Like. I don't know if I can say this movie is good.

[David]

No. But I don't think I can.

[Griffin]

Frustrating how much good stuff there is in it.

[David]

There's a lot of stuff in it that I thought was a good idea.

[Karen]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

And even, like, things that are executed well. But then there's stuff where you're just like. The lighting alone is knocking every single element of the movie down. A star at every moment.

[David]

It's tough. Execution is. Is lacking here. I would say the film. There's an execution issue. Griffin. Things like Tracy Ullman's character, Mother Nature, who is never explained, serves no plot purpose.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

Doesn't really jive with the story. I don't know.

[Griffin]

I have to correct myself. The opening credit sequence goes from nature photography and then just hard transitions to plastic surgery footage.

[David]

That's right. Because it's like, ah, these days everyone's getting plastic surgery. I'm Tracy Ullman. I won't explain it anymore.

[Griffin]

And, you know, old ladies are worthless.

[David]

You. And then she's not like, let's meet our I. Right. You expect there could be kind of a Greek chorus, you know, like the narrator threat. You know, let me. I wish everyone could be like me, covered in leaves. But instead, here we are in Elliot. Yes.

[Karen]

No, I was gonna say no. Sorry. Go ahead.

[David]

No, I'm. I'm listening.

[Karen]

Oh, I was just gonna say that one of the weirdest parts.

[David]

Sorry. That I said yes so aggressively.

[Karen]

No, it was really supportive. I really appreciate it.

[Griffin]

Really?

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Nicole. That's a part of it.

[David]

So Vincent Price style. Yes.

[Karen]

Tracy Ullman. The weirdest part of the Mother Nature bit is like, there's no consistent visual vocabulary. I guess at one point when she shows up, everybody else then freezes in time. Whereas before that, when she showed up, they were still continuing in time.

[David]

Right. And it's more like she's a the Great Gazoo. No one can see the rules of.

[Griffin]

Her function within the movie change basically every scene. As you said, sometimes she is. Zach Morris Powers can freeze the whole movie and comment on it. Sometimes she is narrating just to us, the audience, down the lens.

[David]

And then somebody talks to Pfeiffer.

[Griffin]

Right. Other times she's like. Pfeiffer's like Paul Bettany in Beautiful Mind, where you're like, is she having a mental breakdown?

[Ben]

Where does she get those damn chips?

[Griffin]

Great.

[Ben]

So she's eating no one can see her.

[David]

Do you think. Do you think a bag of chips is floating next to Pfeiffer and she's like, imaginary supermarket.

[Karen]

I wonder if she can digest stuff.

[Griffin]

Thank you, but yes.

[David]

Can she digest stuff? Well, let's send an email. Tracy almond.com.

[Griffin]

You'Re like, any one of those three things could work.

[David]

No. Could, I guess could. Yeah.

[Griffin]

It is very confusing when it's jumping back and forth between them and you don't get what it is.

[David]

The extent to which this lifts out of the movie. The movie's 97 minutes long. Feels long. You lose Tracy. We're getting closer to 90 minutes. Just get her right out of there. It almost feels like she has this idea and then Tracey Ullman will do it. And then there's this sort of obligation of like, I got Tracey Ullman.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

Like she's, you know, even though it's the late 2000s and Tracey Oman isn't quite as hot as she was, it's still like, oh, you got Tracy Ullman. You gotta use her.

[Griffin]

There's also, famously, a movie we've covered on the show, Death Becomes her, where Tracy Ullman had a major subplot and 25 minutes of footage, and they just went bloop. Like, there are other movies that have straight lifted.

[David]

Maybe she almost so sensitive about getting lifted out of a movie.

[Griffin]

She had a no lifting clause in her contract.

[David]

Can't lift me.

[Griffin]

Yeah, it's called the dead weight clause.

[David]

Do you like Tracey Ullman? Does Trace Ullman mean anything to you?

[Karen]

I don't think I really know much of Tracey Ullman.

[David]

I'm gonna be honest. Like, I. I don't either, because a.

[Griffin]

Little interesting, as someone who grew up in both New York and London, that Tracey Ullman means nothing.

[David]

It means nothing.

[Karen]

Audience.

[Griffin]

Yeah, well.

[David]

But I'm a little too young for her. Like, I think her. Her sort of like, TV show, like the Tracey Ullman show and Tracy Takes on that had all peaked by the time I was a kid.

[Griffin]

We both came after our.

[David]

She was still around.

[Griffin]

That's the difference. I think when we were young, she was still around. And Karen, you're just enough younger than us that she basically doesn't exist in your purview.

[David]

God, HBO kind of treated her like they treat Bill Maher. Now, I'm not talking in terms of politics, but in terms of. There were like, she's in the HBO family as long as she wants.

[Griffin]

Whatever she wants to do.

[David]

If she wants to take a shit on stage.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

We will run an Emmy campaign. For that, like, it is whatever she wants, right?

[Griffin]

She had 10 years of, like, HBO, like, free reign combined with. She was still popping up in movies at that time, right.

[David]

She would pop up in a movie.

[Griffin]

But then basically by. I feel like by the year, like 2000, she really slows down.

[David]

But like, it was one of those things, like the Tracy Ullman show, which I've never really watched except had this. The Simpsons came out of the Tracy Ellman show, famously was the. The animated.

[Griffin]

They were like, oh, we should. They were like, we should have animated interstitials on this. On this sketch show.

[David]

Karen, wait.

[Karen]

And that became the Simpsons.

[David]

Yes. Matt Groening was like, I don't know, Homer. Like, you know, literally. It was kind of that. That's part of the lore.

[Griffin]

James L. Brooks. Everyone's trying to, like, make an American sitcom for Tracy Almond. And James L. Brooks was like, no, she needs an old school variety show. Fox has just started. He marches in. He's like one of the most legendary TV creators. He's like, Tracy Ulman sketch show. They surround her with like an all star cast, including several of the voices from the Simpsons. Dan Castle, Netta Julie Kavner. And they're like, we want to make this variety show. It should have animated segments. There are two of them. Them. The other one was Tracy's pick. I forget what it's called, but was a flop. And then James L. Brooks was like, I like this weird cartoonist from Oregon, Aragorn.

[David]

This is true.

[Griffin]

And Tracy Ulman was like, I don't like this Simpson shit. And the Simpsons immediately, like, hit and turn into a spin off as she didn't want to voice one of the Simpsons because she was like, I don't like this. And then years later, she sued because she's like, I. Percentage of the Simpsons profits.

[David]

Right. I assume she didn't get it.

[Griffin]

She did not.

[Karen]

That's incredible.

[Griffin]

The thing about that is sort of like changing of the guard moment where it's like, the Simpsons are the biggest things in America now and Tracey Ullman gets to do her stuff on hbo.

[David]

I want to say this with all due respect to Tracey Ullman, who I understand is a bit of a pioneer and a trailblazer for women in comedy. And I guess women are allowed to stay in comedy. Not if I had my way.

[Griffin]

Oh, okay.

[David]

And I think Tracey Ullman is funny. I have seen her be funny in things. Robin Hood, Men in tight. She makes me laugh.

[Griffin]

Yeah, she's really funny in that.

[David]

Whenever you watch those kind of comedy talk show clip show sort of like retrospect, where they're like, oh, and the Tracey Ullman show was so good. Like, you know, and she had her character, like, you know, Mrs. Whatever. And then she's going like, it's me. And I'm just like, was this funny? Like, this doesn't look that.

[Griffin]

I'll say this too.

[David]

You know, sometimes you watch old comedy and you're like, brilliant. Like, it works. And then sometimes they're like, oh, mind, mind.

[Griffin]

You have fate.

[David]

And you're like, jesus, she played. Is she funny? Just tell me.

[Griffin]

I think she's funny.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

I think she is. She's really big, right? Like, Tracy's, like, huge, unsubtle energy. And I think that. That when it's five degrees off, it's, like, insufferable. I think when Tracy Ullman misses, it's rough. I don't, like, watch classic Tracy Ullman.

[David]

And it's funny that we're talking this much about a character who's in the movie for five minutes.

[Griffin]

I don't watch classic Tracy Ullman and, like, ROFL copter on the floor. But I do. I do think she's funny, but I'm also like. I've seen her, like, strike out felt. And especially in things like movies where you're just like when she. When she had her own TV projects and she could build an entire universe around her and it's just showcasing her. You're like, this is impressive as, like, just a style of performance. And then sometimes when you drop her into a movie like this, and you're like, she is not harmonizing with anyone else. She is just doing her own thing in a very specific register. I don't think she's badness, but, like, it just adds to the chaos of this movie where you're. The element is so strange.

[David]

She does not matter to this movie. The movie is about a character called Rosie, played by Michelle Pfeiffer, who's the showrunner of a bad sitcom called you'd Go Girl, where the joke is that all the actors. Ben hated this movie so much. Oh, my God, look at his face.

[Karen]

Ben is crying.

[Griffin]

No, look who's talking now.

[David]

Stacy Dash plays the lead actor. And the joke is, like, everyone's tool, right? Like, Stacy Dash was kind of the.

[Griffin]

90S when they shot the Clueless movie. So she's on the clueless TV show into her early 30s. And then this movie is almost 10 years after that. So the joke is, right? She's like, 40, but she's.

[David]

It's. Now it's it's sort of the same thing with her. She's actually too old. Like, you're watching this and you're like, who on earth would think Stacy Dash could be a teenager? Like, and I sort of get the joke of like, oh, it's heightened, I guess. But I wasn't. It couldn't. I couldn't really get there.

[Griffin]

Also, is it the other thing makes.

[David]

The whole thing feel like a dream you're having, like on drugs.

[Karen]

There's no grounded reality. There's no, like, consistent reality.

[David]

Even though it's supposed to be about this sort of grounded thing of this woman's trying to claw out some romance and life and she's mothering and it's hard. But then it's like she lives in cuckoo land. And I feel like I'm on fucking Xanax watching this movie or something because everything's just kind of like vibrating and everyone's a little off.

[Griffin]

It is a weird fever dream movie. Like, it has that kind of like old dog's chaos to it.

[David]

A great example being when Paul Rudd's character is introduced. So Paul Rudd plays Adam, the young actor they cast in a guest role, who becomes a sort of breakout star. And then she starts kissing him. He comes into the audition and then he is jerked sideways like a cartoon.

[Karen]

Yes.

[David]

And they all go, how do you do that? And then he comes back in, but it's like. But it's not a dress.

[Griffin]

It's a Johnny Dangerously gag.

[David]

It's like this crazy sort of out of proportion physical humor. But nobody even says if that was. Did she imagine that? Did he actually do that? Doesn't seem possible.

[Griffin]

Paul Rudd is an incredible physical actor.

[David]

Very funny physical actor.

[Griffin]

And he can do shit like that in a movie and be like, this is this character doing this. It's not betraying the laws of gravity in this film. Right. This is a guy who can do goofy movements. The way that moment plays out in the film. He is clearly rigged by wires.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

It is not something a human being could do.

[Karen]

It also, when it first happened, I was like, oh, this is going to come back in some.

[David]

He'll do it again. Right, Right.

[Karen]

He. It never is.

[David]

They call it out as like, this.

[Griffin]

Guy has a superpower.

[David]

They call it out like, how do you do that? And then they don't ask him or talk about it again.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

And it's a great example of what I'm talking about in this movie where you're just like, I think feel like someone needed to figure that out, you know?

[Karen]

What it is, is I feel like this movie, it reads as though, you know, when you're, like, filming something and you do the take as written and then you're like, you know what? Just do one for fun. And then they just stitch together all the four fun takes.

[David]

It's heavy on. And sometimes. Sometimes it's funny.

[Karen]

Yeah, yeah.

[David]

Like, look, the highlight of this movie is something that has lived on in gift form to audiences that don't know what it's from.

[Griffin]

Zero idea.

[David]

Which is Paul Rudd dancing around like a lunatic at the bar. Which is so funny out of context because Paul Rudd dancing around like a silly guy. It feels like celery man or whatever.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

From. I think you could leave there is. What's it called? Jesus. Tim and Eric.

[Griffin]

Yes. I think it was for, like, him.

[David]

Just going, like, you know, is funny. Yeah.

[Griffin]

I think it was either for role models or I love you, man. And as you're saying, the 2008 year where, like, Paul Rudd figures it out. He figures out his movie star leading man thing where he went on Conan. Paul Rudd's Conan appearances, of course, just like all bangers, but they play whatever music. I think they play Badlands to his entrance. And Paul Rudd, just, like, rather than sitting down on the couch, starts clapping and then starts dancing. And he and Conan dance for like three minutes.

[Karen]

That's so charming.

[Griffin]

And it's so charming. It's one of my favorite clips. Lips. And watching this film for the first time, I was like, oh. Five of the moves he does in Conan are direct quotes of this. Where it almost felt like he knew I did. Really? I was dancing in that movie. No one saw it. I gotta find a way to reproduce those dance moves in a medium that people will actually see. But it. It's. Yes, the dancing is incredible.

[David]

It's really funny.

[Griffin]

Can we talk about Paul Rudd a little bit in a focused way?

[David]

Yes, we can. But first I want to ask about the dancing. So I see that and I want to fuck him. Like, and I'm saying, like, I want to get him naked and have sex with him. I'm not saying, like, oh, I want to fuck him. Like, I'm on Twitter, like, no, it's hot.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

Would Michelle Pfeiffer want to fuck him after watching that? Because in the movie she does. But Michelle Pfeiffer still almost feels a little too classy to be like, oh, you goofball.

[Griffin]

I'll repeat an anecdote I said just, like, two episodes ago, my gay friend was testing how straight I was thinking that he could maybe talk me into a good anecdote. And he said, like. Like, you don't find any guys attractive. Like, if you could fuck one guy, who would it be?

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And I said, paul Rudd. And he went, oh, you are straight.

[Karen]

Really? Yeah.

[Griffin]

But I had the same thing where I'm like, paul Rudd is a. In my mind, I'm like, that's the most attractive guy. And that is exactly what I wish I could look, sound, move and think.

[Karen]

Like, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

I'm like, well, that's the masculine ideal is Paul Rudd.

[Karen]

I actually bet Michelle Pfeiffer. I bet that did turn her on. Yeah.

[David]

Because it's supposed to.

[Karen]

Also because he's.

[David]

Because he's just so loosey goosey, silly guy.

[Karen]

So loosey goosey and so, like, inviting and so, like, doesn't care for social norms. Yeah.

[Griffin]

But I also think this movie makes him kind of dumb.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

In a way that is weird. Like, I think when Paul Rudd oblivious.

[David]

When like, like mega oblivious.

[Griffin]

Here's the thing that I think Paul Rudd is really good at is like, certain comedy stars who then need to have a love interest. And you're like, this beautiful actress would not be attracted to this guy even if he looks like a movie star because he's behaving like a maniac. Right. Like, if Maura Tierney has witnessed the way that Jim Carrey behaves in Liar Liar, she can never see him as a sexual creature ever again. Now, it's a broad comedy and it doesn't need to be based in that sort of reality. But you're just like, I don't know if she sees him as like, like a viable option. Right. Paul Rudd can do shit. And it probably has to do with the fact that, like, he became a comedy star in a moment when the broad, high concept comedy was going away and things became more relationship and conversational. Whatever. But something like the slapping the bass scene in I love you, man, which is so funny. And it's just Rudd doing a riff for like four minutes and moving weird and making weird voices. I watch it and I'm like, I still think Rashida Jones is going to fuck him in 30 minutes. He is a goofball, but in a way where you're like, this is the way that, like, people pick people up at bars, you know? Like, this is the way where people are like, man, women love a guy with a sense of humor. Like, if he looks like Paul Rudd and he can commit to the bit this hard and he's this affable and he gives the smile at the end of it, you're like, it's kind of hot. Right. This movie makes him dumb, though, in a way where when he does those sorts of bits. And I think part of it's probably the disconnect of him being 35 and playing 29. And if he was 29, it would register as just kind of like puppy dog cluelessness. And in at 35, you're just like, is this guy a moron?

[Karen]

Right.

[David]

Karen, what do you want to say?

[Karen]

Oh, I was gonna say. Well, it was weird because when he. The first or second time he shows up, he, like, throws a jelly bean at the assistant woman's butt.

[David]

He does. That's another sequence that I was like, is this a dream?

[Karen]

Yeah. Why? It was so off putting that I think if he had been even 5% less handsome, I would be like, I hate this guy. But he only gets away with it because he's Paul Rudd. And you choose to forget about that.

[David]

But it doesn't really track with how the character later brings up.

[Karen]

Exactly.

[Griffin]

That's kind of a gentleman for the rest of the movie.

[Karen]

Yes. He's so thoughtful. I think that is an example of a scene where, like, the last take they did, he's like, this is gonna be funny. I'm gonna do it. And they're like, we're gonna keep this take for.

[David]

Or they're like, we have to roast low rise jeans. Like we must. And so there. This scene's got to make it in. Ben.

[Ben]

Maybe he made the jelly bean on the first shot because it's impressive.

[Karen]

Absolutely has to be rigged.

[Griffin]

This sequence has like five setups in it. It's not just like he walked into a wide shot you threw.

[David]

It goes over the fence in Taken. And there's like 18 cuts. Right? That's what I'm saying.

[Griffin]

I'm like, this was like a thing that they had like a stunt supervisor come in.

[Karen]

They had storybo jelly bean coordinator.

[Griffin]

Like, this is a constructed sequence. And then she stands up and you think the joke is like, oh, she's got a jelly bean or ass crack. And she's not even aware. And she turns around and is like, next time aim higher. Or so.

[Karen]

It's like it makes no sense because she was turned around. So it's like, next time aim on your back. Like, what? You're what?

[Griffin]

It's so strange.

[David]

And. And despite that, she then is so desperate to him, she resorts to multiple Photoshop crimes.

[Griffin]

Yes. Who's a wonderful actor.

[David]

So Sarah Alexander.

[Griffin]

And in this film is playing the role of Thanos.

[David]

She's not very sympathetic.

[Griffin]

This is like maybe. I know we covered Schindler's List very recently on this podcast, but I'm gonna say this is in the top 10 least sympathetic characters we have ever had to discuss on this show.

[David]

David?

[Griffin]

Yes, I have this wild take. Imho, summer is the season of doing things.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

And enjoyment.

[David]

I love to enjoy things.

[Griffin]

That is what summer is for, enjoying things and doing them.

[David]

I do love to enjoy and do things. I love to do things. And I really like if I enjoy the things I do.

[Griffin]

Well, here's the thing I want to recommend that you can do and enjoy doing Making meals with hellofresh.

[David]

I honestly, you're. You're being a silly fella. I am, but it is very satisfying to make a meal, serve it to people and have them enjoy it. Of course, hellofresh, that stuff is easy.

[Griffin]

And you say I'm being silly, but I do want to start to push the narrative that maybe instead of like, brat summer, hot girl Summer, this is doing things and enjoying them Summer.

[David]

Yeah, this is doing things and enjoying them Summer.

[Griffin]

And hellofresh is a perfect way to kick off that spirit. David, what you been cooking up lately for summer?

[David]

Maybe you want something that's a little less of a, you know, standing over a pot.

[Griffin]

Exactly.

[David]

How about some sticky ponzu salmon rice bowls? Here's what I like about a rice bowl.

[Griffin]

It's not gonna fall out of my hands.

[David]

Sticky ponzu salmon rice bowls. I love ponzu. More ponzu in my life these days than ever before. Or what about this? This a one pot creamy paprika chicken cavatappi. I love a one pot meal. Griff.

[Griffin]

The exact number of pots I'm looking at.

[David]

Exactly. And you're putting all this stuff together and you're like, is this going to work? And then suddenly eat that magic moment when you're stirring and you're like, wait, this looks like a meal.

[Griffin]

Yep.

[David]

You know, this was a bunch of stuff before and now this looks like something I want to put in my mouth.

[Griffin]

I know that feeling and that experience.

[David]

And hellofresh is really good at that, at putting together these quick make, you know, home cooked meals that are actually like fun and delicious, not just like, you know, food to put in your mouth.

[Griffin]

You get to have fun and enjoy doing things.

[David]

They use high quality ingredients, seasonal fresh produce, proteins that travel from farm to doorstep and they got easy to follow recipe cards. And yeah, you can even get the simple kind of heat them and eat them Options. If that's the, you know, that's the.

[Griffin]

Convenience you're looking for, that's a little more my temperature.

[David]

So you can make your summer enjoyable and delicious by signing up for [e-mail] Check 10fm and then get 10 free meals with a free item for life. That's hellofresh.com Check 10fm. 10fm. 10 free meals for 10 free meals and a free item in every box. Hellofresh.com Check 10FM. One per box with an active subscription. Free meals are applied as a discount on the first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. David? Yes.

[Griffin]

This episode of Blank Check is brought to you by booking.combooking. yeah, I got confused for a second.

[David]

Oh, no.

[Griffin]

I thought my glasses were fogged up.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

Because I'm looking across the room at your handsome mug. For a second I thought, is Matt LeBlanc here?

[David]

Why did you think that?

[Griffin]

Because I'm looking at a man with a plan. I'm looking at a man who likes making plans. You don't like leaving things up to chance?

[David]

No, I hate. I like to plan things very, very carefully.

[Griffin]

Actually, you like to organize a trip. And you know what's helpful for that? Booking.com.

[David]

That'S right.

[Griffin]

From vacation rentals to hotels across the U.S. booking.com has the ideal summer stay for absolutely anyone. Even those who might seem impossible to please, like Phoebe Buffay, who's got very specific tastes.

[David]

Look, whether you're booking for yourself, your partner, your sleep light early rise mom, or your high maintenance group chat, I'm always booking for that group chat. Yeah, well, your family is a bit.

[Griffin]

Of a group chat.

[David]

True. You can find exactly what you're booking for on booking dot com.

[Griffin]

Tell me about your hotel preferences, David.

[David]

I love a sauna. Okay.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

Anything spa. I love. You know what I love? A robe. Give me a robe.

[Ben]

Customized.

[David]

Give me a fluffy robe.

[Griffin]

Now, are we talking hot tub in room? Like. Like kind of comically shaped hot tub heart? A big. A big martini glass. Is that what you want in room?

[David]

Sure. Some strawberries.

[Griffin]

You want strawberries?

[David]

I don't know. They're always fun.

[Griffin]

You want strawberries in your stay, David? You know what I like when I'm on vacation?

[David]

What do you like?

[Griffin]

A giant bed. I like to get a comically large California king. Yeah, you know what? Yeah. I feel like a Hollywood king.

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

I get the kind of bed you couldn't fit into a New York City apartment and a bed that is comically oversized for a tiny little man like me.

[Ben]

And what's great about booking.com is it gives you all of these different filters and options. Options when you're searching for a place to stay.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[Ben]

Where you can, you know, say, I would like to have the largest bed.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Possible.

[Griffin]

Possible. You might be surprised to hear I'm pretty specific in my bathroom preferences as well. Another thing that Booking.com helps me filter out to make sure I got exactly what I need. Here's the thing. If David can find his perfect stay on booking.com, anyone can.

[David]

True. Find exactly what you're booking for booking.com, booking. Yeah.

[Griffin]

Book today on the site or in the app.

[David]

So Sarah Alexander's a very big part of my life because I grew up in Britain. I forget if Karen knows that, but I do. I did grow up in Britain and she was on, you know, Smack the Pony and like Green Wing all. And Coupling was her big thing.

[Griffin]

She was kind of the British Jennifer Aniston. Is that. No.

[David]

Well, the whole thing that happened with Coupling, which was a sitcom that aired on the BBC, was that everyone was like, this is the British Friends and it's going to be brought to America and they'll do an American Coupling so that we'll have a new Friends. Because Friends was coming to an end. Speaking of Paul Rudd. And famously the American version tanked and lasted like two episodes or whatever. But Sarah Alexander was sort of the Rachel of Coupling. But Coupling was never a friend size thing.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

And I would say stuff like Smack the Pony and Green Wing. I know when you say Smack the Pony, you truly do sound like a stereotype of someone talking about Britain.

[Griffin]

When you say Smack the Pony and Green Wing.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

You say both of the.

[David]

You would really like Green Wing. Green Wing's really funny.

[Griffin]

I, I believe it.

[David]

I.

[Griffin]

By the way, I think she's a great actor. I'm a pony fan of hers in everything I've ever seen her do.

[David]

She's very funny. Smack the Pony was a Sally Phillips, a sketch comedy show spearheaded by the great Sally Phillips. That was, I mean, again, it was one of these like women do comedy now experiments. Greenwing was a more sort of focused thing. Sally Phillips is also in Greenwing that was like sort of a sitcom set in a hospital but had like a lot of surreal elements. Very, very good. She's not. Yeah. Sarah Alexander, I think a bit undersold by this movie.

[Griffin]

A little, you think a little, A.

[David]

Little one dimensional as a character. And it is one of those not to talk about women writing things or whatever with something where I'm like, you're. You're creating this sort of three dimensional character in Michelle Pfeiffer that's like, about your experiences. Right. That really has, like, flaws and is interesting, you know, like, that's the idea. But then, like, there's literally like an evil shrew, like, young bitch character who's so evil that they grab each other's hair and have a cat fight for a second where I'm just like, is this setting us back a little bit with your complex female protagonist to have her around? Like, is this good, Amy?

[Griffin]

It feels like the Bridezilla assistant moment in Jurassic World.

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

Where I'm like, someone did something to you.

[Karen]

Yes, I felt the same way.

[David]

Yes, it does.

[Griffin]

Everything about this character is you settling some score.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

What was your take on Sarah Alexander's character, Genie?

[Karen]

Well, it was weird because I felt like Michelle Pfeiffer's character was set up to be a person who would be looking out for her.

[David]

Sure. Would be like, hey, you want to make stuff? Yeah, I'll help you.

[Karen]

And then it kind of seemed like that in the beginning, but then immediately they just became enemies in a way that felt very stereotypy.

[Griffin]

The quickest overview of this character's quote unquote arc. Right. I believe we are first introduced to her shooting a line of dialogue for the TV show. So I'm like, oh, Sarah Alexander is playing an actress on the TV show. Then the next time you see her, it's Michelle Pfeiffer walking to her office and saying, hey, bad news. They cut your line of dialogue and you're like, oh, this is her secretary who's trying to get a leg up, get in front of camera. And she's been foiled again. Then the next 20 times you see her, she is like pulling reverse parent traps, doctoring images.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Playing games of like, telephone to trick people into thinking that everyone's cheating on everyone else and saying bad things about everyone else and trying to seduce everyone into to her web. It takes Michelle Feifer the entire movie to figure out maybe she's a bad person. Which she does in a sequence that's like Guy Richie, Sherlock Holmes. Like her, we literally go inside and her synapse is fire. And she replays all the moments in her mind like she's figured out who Kaiser so is. And then, yes. They like pull each other's hair after she walks in. Unheard.

[David]

And Fred Willard is like, I forgot.

[Karen]

Thought about that.

[David]

She. She do be blowing Fred.

[Griffin]

She walks into Fred Willard's office and says, you need to fire her right now. Fred Willard stands up from his desk, buckles his pants and goes, oh, well, that's going to be difficult. And she goes, why? Unclear why she can't just fire her.

[Karen]

Right.

[Griffin]

Why she's asking the head of the.

[Karen]

Network to fire her personal assistant.

[Griffin]

Yes. And then Sarah Alexandra comes out from underneath the desk in a cat fight.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

And Fred Willard is turned on.

[Karen]

It does feel like somebody who Amy Heckerling tried to once help wronged her. And now the moral of the story is, never help any woman younger than you.

[David]

Right. They'll just Photoshop your ass.

[Karen]

Wait. But so good at Photoshop. I was genuinely impressed.

[David]

That's the thing. Someone should take advantage of this person's skills.

[Karen]

Yeah. She should be in graphic design.

[David]

Exactly. Get her over to some other department. She can Photoshop Paul Rudd in your car in a traffic cam or whatever.

[Griffin]

She hates Stacy Dash, presumably because she's the lead on a TV show instead.

[David]

Of her Sarah Alexander, you mean?

[Griffin]

Yes. So she starts Photoshopping her head on less flattering images.

[David]

Right. First she's doing that. That's right.

[Griffin]

Just making like printout memes for fun and showing them to people being like, huh, look at this mean Photoshop I made. Then one day she is sitting at her desk Googling naked pictures of Stacy Dash.

[Karen]

Yes.

[Griffin]

She finds a porn, like nude celebrities.org.

[David]

Website, which I think is not. Well, who knows? Knows whatever. Don't worry about that.

[Griffin]

A fake website, an image that is clearly photoshopped. Or she is not naked. Right. Where it is just Stacy Dash holding a towel, but clearly her head Photoshopped onto a different body.

[David]

Exactly.

[Griffin]

Then she notices that Paul Rudd has left. Or the props guy comes in and goes, I accidentally took Paul Rudd's real phone. Sarah Alexander takes out her. His flip phone, takes a picture of the screen so that Michelle Pfeiffer will think that he was in bed.

[David]

I'm not yawning because this is so boring.

[Griffin]

Why was she on the website in the first place?

[David]

I don't know. I don't know. It's not very, very clear. And it also kind of could also lift out of this movie because the movie's real conflict is whether or not, I guess whether Michelle Pfeiffer can handle dating someone who's a lot younger than her is at the start of his career versus where she's in her career. She's got a kid, whatever. This is the sort of rich, emotional content of the movie that is mostly not addressed there.

[Griffin]

Also, just like you watch this, you're like, there's actually no. No movie I can think of that actually kind of represents what like being a TV showrunner is.

[David]

Right. And it does do a good job of. Right. All the getting asked about.

[Griffin]

And yeah, sure, there's enough to work with there.

[David]

But here's how the movie mostly addresses the age gap is kind of them in the car.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

And Michelle going like, how old are you? He's like, she's like, it's kind of young. Like, that's basically it.

[Griffin]

Right?

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And Sarah Alexander will like perpetuate lies. Will like trick him into trying to other people. Tell Michelle Pfeiffer that he's trying to her. Try to convince him truly to her, like, she's working like 20 angles.

[Karen]

It's weird.

[Griffin]

Just an absolute agent of chaos.

[David]

Yeah.

[Karen]

Yeah. If we just had the two things where it was like the A plot was her and Paul Rudd and the B plot was her and her daughter. Yeah, that would be a great movie.

[Griffin]

And obviously regular check ins from Mother Nature.

[Karen]

Right.

[David]

Maybe every more of her. Every two minutes.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

She's like, I'm still here.

[Griffin]

All right, I'll do this time.

[David]

So the. The best stuff in this movie is her and her daughter, for sure. That is the stuff that basically all just possibly because it's very lived in because she raised a kid at that time who was this age. It just feels like not cheesy.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

The daughter's interests feel like sort of appropriately kind of in that blurry, like, pubescent kind of like she still likes some kid she likes. You know, she's starting to get interested in more grown up.

[Griffin]

Yeah, sure. Sometimes she dresses like My Chemical Romance.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

You know, sometimes she dresses like Avril Lavigne.

[Karen]

She dresses like David Foster Wallace.

[Griffin]

That's also true.

[Karen]

Lost my mind.

[David]

The bandana. Yes. Oh, my God. Oh, I hope my daughter has a David Foster Wallace phase.

[Griffin]

This is another thing just.

[David]

Just fashion wise.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Good clarification.

[Karen]

Really bad at writing. Yes. I hope she stinks at writing, unlike David Foster Wallace.

[David]

Thank you. Yes.

[Griffin]

No.

[David]

Saoirse Ronan plays her daughter, of course, whose name is Izzy. Although later she wants to be called Drew. That is not explained.

[Griffin]

Okay, what I was going to say.

[David]

What were you going to say?

[Griffin]

Is that.

[Karen]

Hella. What were you gonna say?

[David]

Tell Karen first and then tell me.

[Griffin]

Karen, relay this to Ben and David. A thing that feels very specific in this film that I like and Hectorling's talked about. This is like she was this dark, cynical, pessimistic New York girl who made Clueless which was this sort of experiment for her starting out writing these people in a way that she thought was satirical.

[David]

But clueless is her can I make a sunny movie?

[Griffin]

And then she starts to, like, fall in love with these characters and she's like, this is so far off, off for me. I like the thought experiment of imagining being this optimistic, this positive, this sunny, this bright, and then likes living in that world. She moves to Hollywood. She's a Hollywood player, right? But now she's raising a young girl who is more like her, who is this kind of like oddball, alternative dark girl who, while she is spending her days making like the most candy coded teen show possible. So it's not just that there's like the, the reality of the difference of the two, it's also like them being on a very similar wavelength. What she does for a living, being on a different wavelength, and her trying to balance these two notions of, like, what a modern young woman is. All of that's interesting on paper.

[Karen]

Yeah. There was a scene that I thought, like, could have potentially been incredible. Like the beginning of it really tugged at my heartstrings. Were there, like, trying on clothes at the store and the daughter, Izzy, is like, oh, this doesn't look good on me because I'm ugly. Like, I'm ugly and you're beautiful, mom. And I was like, I bet this is a real thing. And like, I, I feel like as a young girl, I always thought I was like the ugliest person in the world. And like, it's a conversation that girls have with their moms often.

[David]

And because that's the, the intimate setting of the mom dragging you, your mom, to the mall or whatever, right?

[Karen]

Or like feeling like you're compared to your mom, maybe subconsciously. And then instead of doing anything with it, Michelle Pfeiffer just goes, no, I'm ugly. Look at me, I'm hideous. And she's like sitting with perfect posture.

[David]

Looking gorgeous, which is kind of funny. But you're right that we're exiting any deeper resonance because it is also funny when Saoirse Ronan is like, my stomach is so fat. What Fae little child. Unbelievably adorable, funny, and like, appropriately a little darker.

[Griffin]

I also think like, like, Amy Heckerling is someone who by the time her movie career started, had her look really figured out.

[Karen]

Oh, I didn't know that. Right.

[Griffin]

Was kind of like dark alternative lady making it in Hollywood. But, like, the way they style Michelle Pfeiffer in this, outside of, like, her being blonde and Heckerling Being like, darker haired, raven haired is very similar of the sort of, like, suit jacket and the wide collar shirt and the loose tie and. And the hair with the pen in it. Like, that's Heckerling's look in all these things. And, like, here's someone who's been like, the weirdo girl and has figured out a way to, like, make it into success. I also think there's something interesting to that of, like, yeah, the kind of shit that kids would mock you for when you're 13 and everyone's worried about being normal ultimately can become an asset and become your, like, defining characteristics and a thing you can own. And Saoirse dressing kind of similarly to her mom and looking at her and being like, I'm ugly and you're pretty.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And it's like. No, it's more a reflection of, like, the different stages of life. Oh, like, there's shit there.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

But then, yes, it turns into Michelle Pfeiffer complaining about, like, my face is.

[David]

Falling, but there is funny stuff there, like, to like. Right. Like, Saoirse, a running plot in the movie is that she has a crush on a boy and she's always describing to the mom the hare brain schemes that she and her friend are cooking up to, like, get her to go on a double date with the boy or get her in the same room as the boy. And they're playing a video game because they know the boy likes the video games they have to learn.

[Karen]

I totally did that.

[David]

Secrets. Which video game?

[Karen]

I'm actually realizing it wasn't a video game, but I had a crush on this guy in middle school who loved Invader Zim. And then I was like, I have to go home and watch Griffin Newman.

[Griffin]

I wasn't that into Invader Zim.

[David]

Okay, all right, all right. You always seem pretty funny to me. Yes.

[Griffin]

But there were people who made it their entire personality.

[Karen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it might have been more like his entire personality.

[Griffin]

That's what it's. If you had to watch it in order to get his attention. That sounds like an entire personality.

[Karen]

He also, one day, like, offhanded, was like, oh, you should join the tennis team. I play tennis. And I was like, yes, I will.

[David]

Did you join the tennis team?

[Karen]

Oh, yeah, I did. And I actually. The nice takeaway is I still play tennis.

[David]

That's great. We should play tennis this summer. Every year I'm like, I'm going to play tennis this summer. I used to play tennis.

[Griffin]

Ben, our Fast Times episode came out. The great Marie Barty asked. Hey, can you guys share high school photos so we can share them on social media? It's like a fun, flashbacky thing. We're doing high school movies. On the podcast, you pulled up your. Was it your senior page?

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And tennis was listed as one of your main interests.

[David]

I know it was one of your extracurriculars or whatever.

[Griffin]

But you only listed two. It was like band, tennis.

[Ben]

Now, that's the only two things that I talk about.

[Griffin]

Band.

[David]

We know you rocked that tuba.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

And were you still on the tuba by senior year or had you switched. You switched off tuba? I had.

[Ben]

I had dropped the tuba for a joint of marijuana.

[David]

Well, wait a second. That's not a musical instrument at all. No. What were you playing in band?

[Ben]

I played a lot of different instruments, but the. The main instrument was the trumpet.

[Karen]

Gotcha.

[David]

And then.

[Karen]

See, Ben being very cool in high school.

[David]

Well, from. Here's my take on stoner kid. I think Ben was kind of like a cute stoner. He looked like if he's kind of doing his own thing, maybe, but, like, if you hacked away at it, you could get his attention, but maybe he just wants to. What did you want to do? Like, if we. If I'm like, let's hang out senior year. What. What are you going to want to do?

[Griffin]

Smoke weed.

[Ben]

Smoke weed.

[Griffin]

All right, but I.

[David]

Going to take me somewhere.

[Ben]

Take for a ride.

[David]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin]

I slow ride, baby. I feel like I have never heard you invoke tennis. You still talk about your band days a lot. Not. And I didn't know you were a tennis kid.

[Ben]

I played tennis all four years. I love tennis. I still play from time to time.

[David]

How's your. You know, what's your game like? You're a baseline guy. How's your drop?

[Ben]

I mean, I'm really.

[Griffin]

What's your handicap? Are you good at three pointers?

[Ben]

But no, I. I was like. I was like third position in singles. Like, I was a pretty good player.

[Karen]

Yeah, you were great.

[Ben]

I don't know what I would say. My. My game is. My game is getting angry and, like, screaming at myself.

[David]

So you're kind of a John McEnroe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved racket sports because I was better at them than I was at hand. I, like, I wasn't kicking the ball.

[Karen]

While running to do that.

[David]

In tennis you're not, but in soccer you are.

[Karen]

Right.

[David]

And I really struggled to kick that ball in a way that was, you know, with force and accuracy and all the things you want. In soccer, it wasn't really my thing.

[Griffin]

In high school in terms of sports. I'm checking my notes here. I excelled at physio ball.

[Karen]

Wait, what?

[Griffin]

That big rubber ball that you used to do like stretches?

[David]

Huh? Like a medicine ball? Kind of like a yoga ball.

[Karen]

You were like lying down on top of a ball?

[Griffin]

Yeah. Bouncing on top of it and stuff?

[David]

Sure.

[Karen]

Okay. That's awesome.

[Griffin]

I almost failed it.

[David]

Karen, were you an athlete?

[Karen]

I did play a lot of soccer and I did a lot of taekwondo, which I think is why I'm always like kind of ready to fight somebody, but nobody will duel me.

[David]

Well, I would duel you if I knew any taekwondo one dope, but I don't. What was your soccer position?

[Karen]

I was right wing. I was forward. Yeah. I would be really small and. And then just running, running down the wing.

[David]

How were you, Were you a good crosser?

[Karen]

I think I was. I actually think I was pretty good at soccer. And then I got diagnosed as concussion prone and I couldn't play soccer.

[David]

So you can't have balls hitting your head.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

But how do they identify? They're basically, they can diagnose the. That you are more susceptible to getting concussions.

[Karen]

I think basically I got two concussions in three weeks.

[Griffin]

Okay, so you had already been getting them.

[David]

Okay.

[Karen]

Neither time I had hit my head, I just sort of like lurched a little and then gotten a concussion. So they were like. You actually should not be hypersensitive.

[David]

No. You're not allowed to move.

[Karen]

No, but.

[Griffin]

And then.

[Karen]

So I couldn't go on roller coasters for a while.

[David]

That'll sure. That does seem. If you're lurching and getting a concussion and you don't get on a roller.

[Griffin]

Coaster, can you go on them now or is it.

[Karen]

I can go on them now. Now I won't stop. I'm on one currently.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Wait, what change?

[Karen]

I think at one point they're like, hey, I think your brain tissue has completed.

[David]

Okay. You're like your. Your head kind of. Right, okay.

[Karen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Huge. Now what happened?

[Ben]

He was throwing a Snowball at a 10 year old.

[David]

Now he knows the 10 year old.

[Griffin]

He does? Yeah.

[David]

Karen, before you go, 10 year old, I will say lives rent free in that concussed brain of his. But he does know him.

[Griffin]

Karen, before you get concerned, he knows that 10 year old very well because that 10 year old is his mortal nemesis.

[David]

Yes, that 10 year old owns his ass.

[Griffin]

Years of rivalry between him and a 10 year old.

[Ben]

He instigated a snowball fight with me, so I came back at him Hard. Okay. And I was jumping up to Bean.

[David]

Now I'm seeing your age here is 10, right?

[Griffin]

Ben?

[David]

10, 11. Interesting.

[Ben]

I mean, my very latest.

[Griffin]

Just imagine the latest. You could be in your 30s.

[David]

That's where Ben's at.

[Karen]

Nemesis for years. Which means you started this when he was like 6.

[David]

I think he's been in your head a couple years, I think.

[Ben]

No, he's been going like a couple years. So since he's been about 8.

[Karen]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. A fully grown man.

[Ben]

Then he famously took a look at my earring. I re, you know, got my ear pierced at 38.

[Karen]

Very. Remember this? Yeah.

[Ben]

And he said, oh, wow. That's pretty basic, man.

[David]

And the thing that about that when he said that is it bounced right off of Ben. It didn't affect him at all. He doesn't remember the word.

[Ben]

I wasn't bothered by it at all for days.

[Griffin]

He wrote Ben a mean birthday card that we have here in the office.

[David]

Somewhere around here. I forget.

[Karen]

How do you know this?

[Griffin]

He is the son of our editor on the podcast Cast.

[Karen]

Incredible.

[Griffin]

But Ben, just to be clear, Ben did not get a concussion because this kid hit him really hard with a snowball. Ben got the concussion because he threw a snowball so hard at the kid that he threw off his own center of gravity and fell.

[Ben]

Well, it was, it was. I, I. So I'm in the air, I, I throw the snowball, I come down, I immediately lose my footing. Like I did like a jump throw.

[Griffin]

And like, like spun his whole body.

[Ben]

So with all the momentum of like me coming down from jumping, I slip and then fall on the back of my head.

[Karen]

Oh my God.

[Griffin]

We've made him tell this story like five times on the podcast. I swear it gets funnier every time.

[David]

I mean, I feel bad, cuz he did hurt his head.

[Karen]

No, I don't feel bad at all. This is a joy.

[David]

Yeah, it's pretty funny.

[Ben]

Yeah. I have to go get an MRI soon.

[Karen]

Oh, wait. Oh my God, I'm so sorry.

[Ben]

Yeah, that's right. I got your ass, Karen.

[Griffin]

And just to be clear, Ben, I'm.

[David]

Totally concussions than you.

[Griffin]

She's concussion prone.

[David]

I'm.

[Ben]

I have two now. Wait, in my lifetime.

[Karen]

So the second one, the one where the snowball are you currently concussed.

[Ben]

Well, when do you stop?

[Karen]

Wait, when did.

[David]

It was like, like three months ago.

[Karen]

Yeah. Oh, you're fine. You're fine.

[David]

Yeah, we can be a quarterback or whatever.

[Ben]

Yeah, I can avoid doing that.

[David]

Exactly.

[Griffin]

And Ben, just to be clear, when you felt to the Ground hit your head. Of course. This 10 year old boy came to your side and helped heal you.

[David]

No, he.

[Ben]

Nelson from Simpsons, my ass.

[David]

He's laughed at you.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Karen]

This is amazing.

[David]

I know, it's so good.

[Karen]

I. I'm obsessed with this kid.

[Griffin]

Oh, he's really.

[Karen]

Kid some money.

[David]

Sure. I'll give you his Venmo.

[Griffin]

He's really funny.

[Ben]

Yeah, he's gonna love hearing this.

[Karen]

Gotta be honest, I'm imagining just like a younger version of. Of Griffin.

[David]

He's not.

[Griffin]

He's honestly so much cooler. He kind of looks like Dennis the Menace.

[David]

Yeah, like, he's kind of got like an American Dennis the Menace vibe.

[Karen]

Amazing.

[David]

Like, not the British kind.

[Griffin]

We went out to dinner and he. We got like chips and he made a double dipping joke and I was like, oh, have you ever watched Seinfeld? He goes, no, what's that? And I go, it's really funny. You'd actually like it. It's like, that's where the double dipping comes from. It's a show made up of like, observations like that. And you're like, yeah, I don't know now who's on that show?

[Karen]

That's so sweet.

[Griffin]

And I was like, Jerry Seinfeld. And he went, no, that's not who I'm thinking of. He meant like, he wasn't trying to be funny.

[Karen]

No, of course, yeah.

[Griffin]

Thinking of someone else. Wow.

[David]

Why are there ridges on Reese's peanut butter cups? Probably so they never slip from her hands. Could you imagine? I'd lose it. Luckily, Reese has thought about that. That wonder what else they think about. Probably chocolate and peanut butter.

[Griffin]

Here's another thing I like in this movie.

[Karen]

Oh, right.

[Griffin]

On paper, we're talking about like her coaching her daughter through like, how to engage boy drama.

[David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

That it like, speaks to this sort of like, loop I'm talking about of like the weird, edgy girl made good come into her own where she's sort of with reflection now, applying the knowledge of like. No, this is how you actually get people interested in you. It's not like the dumb shit that like peer pressure tells you you need to do in order to like, rope in a boy or like catch his eye. Which is just such an interesting contrast to her day job, being that she's writing a show about teenagers that is like very boilerplate and is caught up in sort of like 90210 style, like drama. Right. That there's this sense of like, Amy Heckerling. Her success is so much that she was like, able to relate to the perspective of a teenager that she could reactivate it for 20 years out of high school and make these movies and TV shows that like really connected with a younger generation but even still knows like that's different from reality. And like, to my daughter, I'm telling her the things I wish I had known at the time, which is mostly like be funny.

[Karen]

Right.

[Griffin]

Don't try to like play dumb. Don't like, yeah. You know, flatter him or whatever it is.

[Karen]

Yeah. When she like encourages her daughter to sing out at the end, I was like, that's very sweet. That feels like a takeaway.

[David]

They have good relationship. That felt quite.

[Griffin]

Can we say that her accent is impeccable?

[Karen]

Oh my God, it's amazing.

[David]

I mean this is the whole thing.

[Griffin]

Thing.

[David]

Clearly it's like, okay, we have to make this movie in Britain. We need a British. Well, she's Irish, but we need a UK and Ireland child actor. So I guess we're going to have to get like the best one available because they're going to need to do a killer accent.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

And so that's how they look into. They're like, I, you have to get me number one.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

You have to get me the person with like the 100 rating.

[Griffin]

They successfully.

[David]

We dug up this future five time Oscar.

[Griffin]

One of the best actors last 25 years. Astounding discovery.

[David]

She got passed over for playing I don't know if you actually care about Harry Potter. I made the parsel tongue joke earlier. Nobody laughed.

[Karen]

I didn't know she was.

[David]

Wait, she got passed over for Luna Lovegood. Oh, was the runner up. And obviously makes a lot of sense for Luna Lovegood, but probably good that she didn't get it because then she would have been stuck making those goddamn movies.

[Griffin]

Also that actress is very good who plays Ivana lynch, but also basically gets stuck as Luna Lovegood for the rest of her life.

[David]

Yeah. And so instead she gets this role. This is her first role. But of course it's not released until after Atonement. Have you seen Atonement?

[Karen]

Yes, I read and watched Atonement for the Winter.

[David]

Yeah, it's an incredible book, but that's a pretty good movie.

[Karen]

Yeah, that's exactly how I felt.

[David]

Good.

[Griffin]

By the time this movie is on blockbuster shelves, she already has an Oscar nomination.

[Karen]

That's nuts. That. That's bonkers.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Karen]

Wow.

[Griffin]

That's insane to consider.

[Karen]

She should have gotten an Oscar nom for this movie.

[Griffin]

Kind of.

[Karen]

Yeah. Interesting. Phenomenal in it.

[David]

I thought so it would be the 2008 Oscars. Right. It was when it was finally by a DVD release. The Oscars are like, we're making an exception. DVD of that movie is allowed. Well, the winner that year, of course, was Penelope Cruz for Vicky. Christina Barcelona. A film performance at the tone of I Could Never Be a Woman Sometimes. Amy Adams in Doubt, Viola Davis in Doubt, Taraji Henson in the Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Marisa Tomei in the Wrestler. Kind of a funny five. Five perfectly good performances. It is. Yeah. Huh.

[Griffin]

Tomei.

[David]

Well, I'm dropping Adams. I'm sorry. That movie sucks. She's totally fine in it.

[Griffin]

I think she's very good it.

[David]

She's good in it, like. But I just. Whatever. I don't care for that movie.

[Griffin]

Yeah, you weird. You've never invoked it.

[David]

I have such doubts about that movie. My five. Do you want to know my five?

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

Totally different.

[Griffin]

Who would your. Your winner from that five would be.

[David]

It would probably be Penelope Cruz. I think that performance is hilarious, but I think TO is really good and I'd be like, pretty satisfied to pretty excellent. That the thing with TO is it's kind of like, yeah, she's good. She's fucking Marissa. Tomei. I guess by. I guess when she was in the Wrestler, it was a little bit like, marissa, we haven't seen you in a second. Like, it's nice to see you. My five were Diane Weast and Synecdoche New York. Who's my winner? An amazing performance. Rosemary Dwitt and Rachel getting Married. An amazing performance. I do have to Adele Hanel in Water Lilies, which is an amazing performance. Performance. And I guess I. I guess I'll just toss in Saoirse Rona. No. Beyonce Knowles was my fifth for Dream Girl.

[Griffin]

No records.

[David]

She's amazing in.

[Griffin]

Yeah, that's a good five.

[Karen]

Wait, are these your top five performances by women? Oh, by that year, yeah.

[Griffin]

Supporting actresses for every single year of what he would nominate in every category. David down to Craft Awards.

[Ben]

That's how he earned the nickname the Spreadmaster.

[Karen]

Gotcha. And that's what everybody calls him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David]

Only in bed, right? No, I've never had sex. I made the spreadsheet instead.

[Griffin]

When he's on a subway car, those knees are tight together. He never man spreads.

[David]

No.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I was the Spreadmaster. When he opens up Google Drive, I.

[David]

Love to wedge myself into that. You know, the l seat on the subway, the window seat, I love that. But my legs are always too long, so I'm always like sitting like this.

[Karen]

Oh, interesting.

[David]

I have two long legs.

[Karen]

I've never had an issue where my legs are too long.

[Griffin]

Yeah. They're shorter than me.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Like, actually, can you guys stand back to back on that?

[Karen]

Can you tell us more about that with.

[Griffin]

With shoes on or.

[David]

Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. Karen is in one foot platforms right now.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Karen's dressed like Bart Simpson in the Radioactive man episode.

[Karen]

Taller than David.

[David]

Yes, exactly. So what other things should we talk about from this week? It's. It's. Well.

[Griffin]

Oh, here's. Here's the thing. I want to say.

[David]

Please, please.

[Griffin]

So, like, Saoirse's accent is very good. Right. If she had never acted again, you would just believe they found some American.

[David]

Kid, they found some valley girl.

[Griffin]

Right. And she has, like, shown herself, basically. I think she can do anything. Like, she's basically as versatile, and I.

[David]

Think she's a very good actor. I'd love her to make a really good movie.

[Griffin]

Again, same. A lot of the actors in this, like, Graham Norton, who has such a distinctive Irish brogue. Right. Like, sounds like a little leprechaun.

[David]

What he's doing is interesting.

[Griffin]

This is what's fascinating is he shows up. I'm like, oh, my God, they're going to make Graham Norton do an American accent. This is not going to work. And then he starts talking and I'm like, huh?

[David]

He's kind of just tweaking at 5%.

[Griffin]

This is what I think I finally landed on. Because I was like, what's going on? Something is unnerving me. And I'm like, I think he's actually on a technical level, doing a pretty spot on American accent. The problem is he still is speaking with the musicality of his Irish accent.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

So it's like he's going like, well, I don't know. We got to get you out of that outfit.

[Karen]

Right.

[Griffin]

There's like this weird. Like, I. I love Graham Norton.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And like, you watch the clips of him on the talk show and, like, talking mile a minute, you know, and he's, like, taking all the Irish inflections out.

[Karen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

But he still sounds like. He's like, you'll never catch me in my political.

[David]

It's pretty much his only film role as a. As not as playing himself for a voice.

[Griffin]

He's quite good in soul.

[David]

Sure. That's right. He is. He's good in soul.

[Griffin]

Yes. Where he is allowed to use his natural voice.

[David]

Yes. I grew up with Graham Norton. He hosted a. Well, first he was on Father Ted, which he's very, very funny on. He's no. For long. He Always jokes how terrible he is on Father Ted, but he's very funny funny. The joke is he's the most annoying.

[Griffin]

Person on Earth, but it's like David Letterman always on his own acting work. Right.

[David]

And then he hosted. So, Graham Norton, did you grow up? No, no one else grew up with Graham Norton.

[Griffin]

They played on BBC America.

[David]

There you go.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I watched him. Yeah.

[Karen]

I was like, all watching him on YouTube.

[Griffin]

That's the thing right now. Once YouTube hit, his stuff is, like, everywhere.

[Karen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David]

And it was. But he was truly one of those guys. I'm 12, and I'm just like, this is one of my guys. Yeah, I'm going to follow this guy to the top. Top. And then he went to the top, and I was like, I'll just leave him at the top. He seems to have figured out by himself. And it's not like I dislike Graham Norton now, but now I only digest him in YouTube clips that come across. My. It's not like I sit down and I'm like, I want to watch all of his interviews, like, front to back.

[Griffin]

And the clips are good.

[David]

No, he's very good. They're very good at their job. They're, like, getting the big, long stories out of the actors and all that.

[Griffin]

Many American talk shows have ripped him off in the last 10 years.

[David]

So who's ripping them off the most?

[Griffin]

I mean, I think Cordon ripped him off the most because I think Cordon came from the UK to American offices and was like, oh, they won't know what I'm ripping off because they haven't seen this.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And the whole, like, couch with multiple guests at the same time and being like, I'm just trying to spark them into having interesting conversations with each other. Like, that is wholesale. Graham Norton.

[David]

You're right. You're right.

[Ben]

Mulaney.

[David]

No, Mulaney's doing something's. Doing something bizarre because he's also doing, like, Dick Cavill it. And he's doing Bill mar in the 90s.

[Griffin]

He's doing. He's also doing Cable access.

[David]

Yes. He's doing this weird grab bag thing. And the thing about that show as it's gone on that we're talking about his Netflix show is you're watching it come together because the first couple episodes, it lurches from thing to thing, and you're like, no one has figured out the connective tissue. And so instead he's like, all right, we're going to go do this now. And you're like, okay, like. And he sits down a Bunch of people is like, cruise ship. What do you think if they're like, I don't know, we've never been on one. Well, that's like. Did anyone talk to anyone?

[Griffin]

But I think that's what he's really going for. It's just chaos. Watching old talk shows from the 70s or watching cable access shows and being like, oh, they haven't figured all of this out. They didn't prepare. Like, shit just can happen. And there's that, like, danger of, like, a bit might just fall or a conversation might just end. Versus, I think, Graham Norton, like the.

[David]

One where Pete Davidson on it and he just doesn't want to talk. And Lunel is like, I want to you. And he's like, I don't want to do that.

[Griffin]

Sorry.

[David]

I've been kind of obsessed with that joke because it's interesting.

[Griffin]

It's just so funny that Graham Norton in this is like. It feels like he is specifically playing, like, a Queer Eye.

[David]

Yeah, he's right. He's a fabulous costume designer. Right.

[Griffin]

But it's also like Carson Criesley, like, very specifically of that moment.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And you're like, maybe just let him be Irish.

[Karen]

It was a moment, though, where because he's such a cheery, positive guy, that I, as I was watching, was, like, rooting for him as an actor.

[David]

I was like, yeah, I had the exact same feeling. Right. I'm like, you're doing it great. You know what? You basically make sense in this movie. It's not incongruous, but it speaks to.

[Griffin]

There's like something just a little weird. He's not doing anything wrong.

[David]

It would be fine if there was just one. It's just the fact that every five minutes there's another other person from a British.

[Griffin]

Every conversation's like that.

[David]

So it start. Steve Pemberton shows up and then he's gone. He's a really funny. Mackenzie Crook has that one scene randomly.

[Karen]

And then never comes back.

[David]

Never comes back. And that scene is kind of stinks and doesn't make any sense.

[Griffin]

What's the name of the League of Gentlemen, guys?

[David]

Steve Pemberton. And he's so funny. But, like, again, I'm just sort of like, hi. And then he's gone. And I'm like, I'll see you later. It's nice to see your face, I guess.

[Karen]

I wonder if they were, like, filming on set in Britain, like on a stage, and they're like, oh, no, we haven't cast this role. Who's around?

[David]

Go, go, go over there.

[Karen]

Kenzie Crook's. On a break. Bring him in.

[Griffin]

I, I, I'm, I want to put something forward, and I'm just gonna, like, say this as broadly as I possibly can. Right. I knew that people, like, mapped the Catan thing onto this, had never seen the movie.

[David]

I'm watching Chris Catan, not Settlers of Catan, which of course has a map.

[Karen]

Immediately, I thought, I knew.

[Griffin]

I knew, knew, of course, that there was an I could never be your woman edition of Settlers of Catan. Of course, yeah, I'd never played they.

[David]

Released it, but it weirdly sold quite poorly. No one understood.

[Griffin]

I also knew that people projected that this in some way was inspired by the Catan relationship. Right. And obviously, like, people can make auto fiction in which they're combining and compressing events from different points of their life, pushing it all into one space to make a movie more exciting. But I'm like, the intricacy of this narrative feels so specific in the, like, she discovers a guy on her show as her show is kind of declining, and he starts to pop. And then he gets more successful than her and is, like, going off and being pushed ahead by the network head who is starting to dismiss her, and her writers are jumping ship over to this guy. So I just started digging into, like, like, male guest stars on the Clueless TV show. And I'm not going to make any direct accusations or guesses.

[David]

Cool. But, like, I, I'm glad you're not making any accusations.

[Griffin]

I just found a couple guys who.

[David]

Were several who kind of, like, broke.

[Griffin]

Out after Clueless, who not only, like, were on Clueless and then got fed strongly into the TGIF lineup right after.

[David]

Who are we talking about? All right.

[Griffin]

Who you got from TGIF you want? I mean, the specific one I thought was interesting. The guy who plays Josh, the Paul Rudd character on the first season of.

[David]

Clueless, before they write him off the show.

[Griffin]

Basically, they write him off the show when the show is dropped by ABC and moves to upn. That guy then immediately gets fed into Sabrina the Teenage Witch, becomes the new love interest on Sabrina the Teenage Witch for three seasons. And a bunch of the writers and producers of Clueless jumped over from Clueless to Sabrina.

[David]

Yeah. So if you. Did you watch Sabrina the Teenage Witch? No. So later in Sabrina the Teenage Witch, she shifts from she's in high school learning to be a witch and a high schooler dilemma to she runs, like, a coffee shop.

[Griffin]

She works.

[David]

I guess you were. And she's in college now.

[Griffin]

But there's like, a central, perky kind.

[David]

Of and they replaced the adorable Harvey Kinkle, her high school boyfriend, with the incredibly boring Josh. Also called Josh.

[Karen]

Oh, his name is still Josh.

[David]

Yeah. They didn't even bother to change.

[Karen]

That's amazing. Yeah.

[David]

Very poor, very bad. Sabrina is only good when she's in high school, imo.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I agree. I just thought.

[David]

Thank you for agreeing.

[Griffin]

I just thought it was interesting.

[Karen]

David only likes girls when they're still in high school. Sorry, Griffin.

[Griffin]

On the record. Yeah, Girls, Women shouldn't get jobs.

[Karen]

No.

[Griffin]

They should never grow up.

[David]

They shouldn't be in comedy.

[Karen]

They shouldn't be comedy. Yeah.

[Griffin]

There were just a couple other guys I found who also fit. That's the main one. But I was just like. Like, if you look at the timing of that in terms of this movie having the access to grind of like, the network thinks I'm not hip anymore. People I'm discovering are jumping off, they're threatening to cancel my show. You know, I was just like, I. I think this show, this movie is truly about her experience working on the Clueless TV show.

[David]

Yeah, sure. Of course it is.

[Griffin]

And I think the romance, I want, I imagine, is also based on experiences within that maybe.

[David]

Or at least having a crush on. I. Look, I don't know.

[Griffin]

I don't know.

[David]

She claims to be 37 and then she admits she's 40. Michelle Pfeiffer, I think, was more like 45. Michelle Pfeiffer is 11 years older than Paul Rudd. I looked it up. Michelle Pfeiffer is 11 years older than Paul Rudd. This movie. Michelle Pfeiffer, I guess is supposed to be more like 20.

[Griffin]

19.

[David]

No, it's. I guess if she's 40 and he's 29 is supposed to be like the correct age. Gas. Yeah. In Ant man and the Wasp, she plays essentially his mother. What? I mean, like, she plays the mother of the wasp.

[Griffin]

Believe I did not until this moment.

[David]

I, halfway into the movie, turn to my wife and I'm like, wait a second. In fucking Ant man, she's. I mean, she's not his mom, but she's the lost.

[Griffin]

She's his mother in law.

[David]

Yes. She becomes his mother in law.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

And she's got like gray hair now you have to marry your mother, father. No one in this had a car with a wheel, didn't fling out of it.

[Griffin]

No good car ideas in this movie.

[David]

And it is so telling of like, Michelle Pfeiffer hit whatever, 55. And they were like, grandma, like, that's it. I don't care. How old are you? Are Anymore. You live in the fucking quantum realm. And when we pull you out, you're old. That's it. Because. Right.

[Griffin]

Paul Rudd is now in his mid-50s and is still playing like. Like a.

[David]

He's playing like 40s. Like, it's like. It's kind of like, how old are you? Just like, 40s.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Right. But like Michelle Pfeiffer and he can pull it off. Michelle Pfeiffer is pointedly playing someone who used to be a superhero in the Marvel universe.

[David]

Michelle Pfeiffer is 13 years younger than Michael Douglas, who is her husband in the Ant man movies.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

It's just there's. I'm not. I don't know. All I'm doing is saying people's ages. This isn't, like, insightful, but it is just weird.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

It's just kind of like, crazy how this happens. This movie is about, like the. Like when Mother of Nature is coming in and being like, hey, Paul Rudd's going to want to have a kid. You're not going to be able to have a kid. Like, you're going to have to deal with that. Right. You know, where it's like. And Michelle F's like, oh, yeah, Shoe Mother Nature. But you're like, yeah. No. These are interesting dilemmas for a woman that age.

[Griffin]

I feel like it's. Meryl Streep has the quote that the. The day she turned. The week she turned 50, she got three different offers to play a witch on Grandma.

[David]

Yes, I have.

[Griffin]

And she ends up. Up doing into the Woods.

[David]

Yeah. That was her being like, I shall finally play the best witch.

[Griffin]

She was like. And then people taught, like, actresses are like, the second I turned 30, I got handed five scripts in which I'm the mother of a teenager.

[David]

Ah.

[Griffin]

And not like someone who had a teenager in high school.

[Karen]

That's nuts. There's also. Wait, what was that movie with Anne Hathaway where she was in love with a younger man?

[Griffin]

The idea of you.

[Karen]

Yes.

[David]

God, that movie was so annoying.

[Karen]

That also feels like this. But the same issue where it's like. But Anne Hathaway is so hot and beautiful. That movie would be so lucky to be. Correct.

[David]

That movie's insane because Anne Hathaway is snatched in that movie. And you were like, this is not a dilemma. The Nicole Kidman Zac Efron movie, which is Pigs Will. I can't remember what the name of it is. That one Family Affair. Is that what it's called? A gross title.

[Karen]

I have not seen that.

[David]

It's so bad. Yes. It's called A Family Affair. It was on Netflix.

[Griffin]

I think it's Joey King as Nicole Kidman's daughter who's a personal assistant to Zac Efron.

[David]

Correct. And he's like, you know, a self absorbed actor guy.

[Griffin]

Right. And then he's like, that's your mom.

[David]

And that movie, I mean, that movie felt like it was directed by like, you know, malfunctioning AI or whatever.

[Griffin]

Richard Le Graven.

[David]

Yes, it is that one at least. You're kind of like, well, Nicole Kidman's not a young woman. Like there's some kind of like, yes, she's old enough to be your mother. I suppose.

[Karen]

I see, I see.

[David]

I don't know. I mean, even that movie, I was like, can everyone. But the idea of you is ridiculous.

[Karen]

Yeah, yeah.

[David]

Where she's like, oh, I'm just such an old bag.

[Griffin]

Like, don't you want to do with.

[Karen]

Me the hottest woman alive? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David]

God, Hollywood's so broken. Can you fix it? You work in Hollywood.

[Karen]

Oh, I should. I never thought about.

[David]

You've been living in la, your sleeves.

[Karen]

Up, you're so smart.

[David]

Jeez.

[Griffin]

But talking about this movie not needing like fake, artificial outside conflict, right?

[David]

Well, it's gotten a Photoshop conflict to begin with.

[Griffin]

It doesn't need the Photoshop.

[David]

It sure doesn't. Yeah.

[Griffin]

There's what I think is kind of the most interesting to work thing to work on. And I think like in theory, on paper, this should be what is like kind of the source of driving her, like, I don't know if we can be together kind of thing. Is she's being told basically that her career is winding down. Right. Not just that like society, you're gonna lose this show.

[David]

And that's kind of it, right?

[Griffin]

That she's already dealing with this sort of like, I'm of an age where society starts valuing women less and starts ignoring us or belittling us. But I'm someone who's always focused on my career and my independence and I'm a single mother and I'm doing it all and I don't need the approval of men. And now it's sort of like your show maybe isn't hip anymore. And here's this guy she discovers and everyone's like, you're the future. And he's at the beginning of what's probably going to be a decades long career. All the offers are starting to come to him. And she's in a world where she's starting to make concessions and having to scrape and cut, you know, he says, like, the show isn't hip anymore. And she went, yeah, you keep cutting the budget. When you cut the budget, the first two things to go are wardrobe and soundtrack. And now the show isn't cool anymore. Right. And she's like fighting to stay cool and relevant.

[Karen]

That is a really cool idea for a movie. If it's like. Because I feel like we're now seeing women who got. Who had the choice to. Who were able to choose career over family.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[Karen]

And it's sort of like, okay, but once your careers are taken away from you, who are you and what is your life? That could have been this movie.

[Griffin]

Totally. For a guy whose career is about to. The movie seems to set up like, go like a rocket ship. Right. Like, even if he ultimately doesn't pan out and become like an A list movie star star, this guy probably has five years of getting worked through the machinery of everyone being like, he might be a star. And to be in a relationship with someone who is at such a radically different point in their life is to me more interesting than the literal, like, age difference. And that's there. It's set up in the movie. And instead the two characters don't talk to each other for 30 minutes because Sarah Alexander, like tricks her into thinking she has a photo of a traffic.

[David]

Just as this movie is kind of building to a head in their, like, should we. How serious should we be? Conflict.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

She's like, yeah, I'm going to stop talking to you because. Right. I saw the weird photoshops of you.

[Griffin]

And then it's basically a thing that's resolved the second she asks him one question.

[Karen]

Yes.

[David]

Well, I mean, so annoying.

[Griffin]

And then they make the joke where he's like, how do you know I wasn't lying? And she went, because you're not that good of an actor. And you're like, why did you have this conversation two months ago?

[David]

There is this sort of, you know, the, the, the final plot, the thing is that you go girl gets canceled her terrible show.

[Karen]

Really bad.

[David]

Yes.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

And he gets a spin off show called the Shizzle. It's like, again, these are all jokes. It's true that even by 2008 feel stale. Would have felt stale enough in 2005.

[Griffin]

Right. Funny People's the year after this. And Yo Teach feels like a much better version. Right.

[David]

And but even Yo Teach is a little bit like, right. You're. You're knocking an earlier kind of sitcom.

[Griffin]

Yeah, yeah.

[David]

And this is a Fred Willard's like, oh, you know, it's what's hip. It's what's. Now he's gonna get the show. And he insists on Michelle Pfeiffer being the writer. Like, he stands his ground.

[Griffin]

No one in the industry is giving her credit for discovering this guy, but this guy doesn't want to work without her. And it just. It's like the whole second half of this movie is, like, based on misunderstandings, miscommunications, or the lack of one conversation where you're just like, why not just, like, call him up and ask him this directly?

[David]

Why not? Why not?

[Griffin]

There's this whole notion that, like, is he lying to me about getting set up for this success? And is he hiding it from me because he's just using me as a stepping stone? And then you find out that, like, he thought they told her.

[Karen]

Right, I forgot about that.

[Griffin]

There's stuff like that where it's just like these characters. I mean, she certainly seems emotionally intelligent enough in the way she talks to her daughter about how to relate to men. You're interested in that. I don't buy that. She keeps on falling for the dumbest shit in the world.

[Karen]

Yeah, you're right. That's so true. Also, why does her ex husband just walk into her house all the time?

[Griffin]

Her ex husband is John Lovett. Keeps getting work done.

[David]

1. One joke is right. Initially he has something on his forehead, and then he's getting a chance, right?

[Griffin]

He's getting ch. He's getting a chin implant. Because if you make your face longer than you don't need a facelift.

[Karen]

Incredible.

[Griffin]

They're like good little jokes in there.

[David]

Yeah. I mean, love. It's. He's doing what's.

[Griffin]

I was looking at the IMDb quote page, trying to pick out what to read. And like, you read the quote page for this movie and, like, there are some things that are deranged.

[Karen]

There are. Okay. There are. There's no consistent style of humor in the movie.

[Griffin]

There are four line exchanges where I'm like, that's funny and well written. If I'm just reading that, that's.

[David]

There are some. Some funny jokes, but. Right. It ranges.

[Ben]

Fun jokes.

[Karen]

They all feel like they're plucked from different screenplays and cut into one movie.

[David]

I agree with you.

[Griffin]

Which is also fascinating because this doesn't feel like a movie that got, like, noted to death. It's like she made it independently. She's the only writer on it. She's the director. Like, it's always the kind of thing I find more interesting is watching, like, one person's calamity Versus a movie that's bad because it was made by commitment, where you're like, well, this sucks, because too many people got involved and, like, no longer the ideas. It's like mashing different puzzle pieces together. But something like this, where you're like, this came out of one person's lived experience and, like, thoughts and hopes and dreams, and then it just all ends up feeling odd and disjointed.

[David]

I'm just looking at the quotes page to see if there's anything that's making me laugh. Not really. I did, like, when Paul smiles. A lot of things that are funny are. Like when Paul Rudd danced. When Paul Rudd does an extended bit about the Home Alone poster. I was doing my. You know, he did the face thing.

[Karen]

Yeah, he did a really good job. For anybody listening, that's it.

[David]

I mean, I think it's cute at the end when Saoirse sings her anti Bush Alanis Morissette ironic cover, but it's not funny, just kind of cute. And then it's cute that she, you know, the boy. I think it's funny that the boy Dylan, the boy she has a crush on, introduces himself by saying, hi, I'm Dylan and I'm alcoholic. That actually made me laugh because he's like, 11 or whatever. I don't know if, like, if I'm like, in the, you know, the audience, you know, with the parents, I'm like, ah, it's funny.

[Griffin]

But then, like, okay, at one point in the movie, they cut to her in her bedroom mirror singing, oops, I got a career by shaking my rear and making guys leer. Oh, baby, baby. Oops, I'm going to sing more and dance like a. I'm just not talented. And then the movie basically took away. And you're like, what the was that?

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

And then they set up later, much.

[David]

Later, that she's working on these parody songs, right?

[Griffin]

And then she wants to perform them at the school talent show. But also, there is, like, a hostility in that song towards Britney Spears.

[David]

But there was a hostility at the time.

[Griffin]

I understand that was in the culture that that was just a thing. But it also is just like. Like that jumping in. In a movie where Sarah Alexander is, like, twirling her mustache and being like, I must destroy older women.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

It's like she's making a film about her own insecurities. And then she keeps on being like, but these young women are the actual problem. Which feels very, like, I don't know, ungenerous and kind of beside the point.

[Karen]

Yeah. You could Totally lift it out of the movie. And it would be better for it.

[David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a movie, a sort of calmer, more confident movie that's better. You know like that's. That's about. But like no one's gonna make that movie, I guess would be her argument. Or just make that movie for no money. You know, like make a $5 million movie. Like make a, you know, a true indie about like being a short. I mean, I don't know.

[Griffin]

No, but that's an interesting thought that like she's writing this screenplay, trying to imagine the version of this movie that a studio will greenlight because that's what her whole career.

[David]

Yes. It's like I'm making a studio, right. Romcom. Like give me 30 million bucks.

[Griffin]

Put big enough sequences in it and jokes and imagining that it's going to be bright and shiny and everything. Then every studio turns it down. This weird financial criminal comes and is like here's $20 million and. But you have to film Monopoly money should have done by that point is gone. Like what is the 10 million dollar version of this movie that is not even trying to be a studio comedy.

[Karen]

Yeah. What did I actually really want to make?

[Griffin]

Right. Like maybe I make the Nicole Holla center scaled version of this.

[David]

But that's kind of not what she ever did.

[Griffin]

No.

[David]

And I don't.

[Griffin]

I haven't 20 years in the studio.

[David]

She only made one of the movie after this. Amy did Karen called Vamps which was also a bomb and also barely got released. Also barely released. Starring Alicia Silverstone and Kristen Ritter. It's like a vampire rom com. I have not.

[Griffin]

It's a post Twilight vampire rom com that we will be talking about next week.

[Karen]

But I post Twilight vampire rom com.

[David]

Yeah. It was called Vamps.

[Karen]

That's nuts. That wasn't huge.

[Griffin]

Dan Stevens is the love interest, I.

[Karen]

Believe from Downton Abbey.

[Griffin]

One of his first post Downton things though.

[Karen]

I love him.

[David]

I love him.

[Griffin]

Sigourney Weaver's the villain.

[David]

Cool. I'm excited to watch it.

[Griffin]

I'm excited to watch it too.

[David]

But I was. That also made it a sort of studio scale. I know, it was a bomb. That's the only one I don't have the answer to.

[Griffin]

Look, I have a lot of people say that movie is kind of a hidden gem in a way that has me excited to watch it. But everyone's ding on it is the one big issue is you can tell she didn't have the money.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

That it clearly like should be a $20 million studio comedy. And she had to make it for like six. But that's like a higher concept genre comedy. But that's also like makeup and effects and shit.

[David]

But it's the one time she tries in theory. No, it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm going to. We're going to play the box office game now. This film wasn't released in theaters.

[Karen]

Okay.

[David]

But we're gonna play it anyway, I guess.

[Griffin]

Can we do the Spain weekend? What do we do? Do we do the weekend Blockbuster?

[David]

I think we do the weekend it goes to Blockbuster.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

Don't you think?

[Griffin]

I mean, here's an interesting question.

[David]

I love interesting questions.

[Griffin]

Is it possible to find what the top rental or home video sales were the weekend it went to Blockbuster?

[Karen]

Ooh.

[David]

I mean, I don't play the home office.

[Griffin]

Ben is looking at me so angrily.

[Karen]

Ben keeps trying.

[Griffin]

Offended by Ben.

[David]

I don't think so. I. I don't know where to find.

[Griffin]

I just think respect the idea.

[David]

I. I don't mind the idea. I just would need, I think, to prep for that because I have no idea how to.

[Karen]

It was a really cute idea.

[David]

Perfectly.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

Oh my God.

[Karen]

Yeah. Applause break.

[David]

Participation Trap myself on the back.

[Griffin]

Literally.

[David]

So this film came out on DVD in America in 2008. February something. Right? I'm going to look it up. February. Come on IMDb, don't let me down. I'm not talking about when it premiered at the Maui Film Festival, February 26th.

[Griffin]

Okay. One week after my birthday.

[David]

So you could have gone to see it if you wanted to.

[Griffin]

Well, I could have gone to Red. There was a Blockbuster near my. My dorm at CalArts. Right. I was still there at the time.

[David]

Or at 2008. How old are you, Karen?

[Karen]

I was 13. And I know one movie that came out in 2008.

[David]

You know one movie that came out?

[Karen]

I know more, but the one I know for certain. Well, actually, now that I say it, I don't know if it's true.

[Griffin]

Throw it out.

[David]

I can't wait for this.

[Karen]

Is it Mamma Mia?

[David]

I think Mamma Mia came out in 2000 with. Yes, it did. It did. But it didn't come out. It didn't grace our screens until July. Of course. It's a summer.

[Griffin]

It was counter programming to the Dark Knight.

[David]

It's a pre Mamma Mia World. So instead we're going to do the weekend of February 29th on 2008. A new film this week is a comedy, kind of a bad comedy. A spoiler sports comedy. It's new this week.

[Griffin]

It's not Semi Pro.

[Karen]

Is it like Airbud 5?

[David]

It's not Airbud 5. It is Semi Pro opening to $18.9 million.

[Griffin]

You know what I'm realizing?

[David]

What's that?

[Griffin]

I dropped out of CalArts the day before my birthday. So this is the first week of me being back in New York. My brother and I went to see Semi Pro and I'm like, I'm back seeing movies in New York, multiplexes.

[David]

So did you drop out because your birthday was approaching and you.

[Griffin]

I dropped out because I was violently depressed, pressed. And then I was just like, I'm setting the date of February 18th to get the out of here because I want to go back. Returning to New York for my purposes, as we say. Right. High five in people, huh? And then people were like, what's your plan? I was like, I don't know.

[David]

Well, you went to see Semi Pro, which just isn't that good.

[Griffin]

Yeah. I just had to adjust in my mind because I was like thinking, what movies would I have seen?

[David]

But now I'm realizing Semi Pro sucks.

[Griffin]

It's really weird.

[David]

Yeah, it's not good.

[Griffin]

What's weird about it is. It is.

[David]

Have you seen Semi Pro?

[Karen]

No.

[David]

It's based on a true story. No.

[Karen]

Oh, okay.

[Griffin]

Loosely.

[David]

Incredibly loosely. But it's in that vein of the Will Ferrell comedy vehicle of the 2000s.

[Griffin]

The Will Ferrell sports comedy was raining.

[David]

Supreme screaming your blades of glory.

[Griffin]

And they were like, here's the next one in that great lineage. Semi Pro. Will Ferrell with an afro doing 70s basketball. Basketball.

[Karen]

Oh.

[Griffin]

And the bizarre thing about the movie is that Woody Harrelson is second build and is like the lead of the movie.

[David]

And he's playing kind of like a right. Like a washed up NBA guy who's fallen into this aba.

[Griffin]

Right. But he's kind of playing it like a real guy and he's sort of doing like in a more grounded like sports dramedy.

[Karen]

Interesting.

[Griffin]

And then they just interweave it with like Will Feral hijinks where he's the manager of the team who's also a player, but he's bad that.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And he's like kind of just an attention. So he does all these stunts to get people in the crowd. So then there'll be like a big Will Ferrell set piece. And then it's like Woody Harrelson going to his ex wife Laura Tyranny and being like, look, I know I up, but I'm trying to make good again. It's a very strange movie.

[David]

Not a good movie.

[Griffin]

Not good.

[David]

Ben, did you see Semi Pro? No. Okay, number two at the box office is a political thriller.

[Griffin]

February 2000. It's not vantage Point, is it Is.

[David]

Pete Travis's Vantage point. Griffin, you are so sick and weird.

[Griffin]

Thank you. How many Oscar winners are in the cast of Vantage Point?

[David]

You've got two.

[Griffin]

Force Whitaker, Zoe Saldana.

[David]

Oh, that's right. Zoe now has an Oscar. Three Oscar winners. Those two. Plus William Hurt, and then of course, Sigourney Weavers. And it's multiple nominee.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Dennis Quaid.

[Griffin]

Never got a nom. Never got a nom.

[David]

Snubbed for Far From Heaven.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Karen]

Snubbed for the Parent Trap.

[David]

Snubbed for the Parent Trap, of course.

[Griffin]

Because they didn't have the hottest dad in the history of movies category yet.

[David]

Best Winery.

[Karen]

You guys should have me on when you do an episode about all the hot dads in cinema.

[David]

Well, we have done a few years ago.

[Karen]

I. I know it's really upsetting that.

[David]

I. Tragedy that you weren't on.

[Karen]

I gotta do it again.

[Griffin]

My sister, who I think is T.R. yeah. We took our little cousins to see Parent Trap at the Nighthawk recently, and Dennis Quaid came on screen, and my sister turned to me and she was like, I'm realizing this performance kind of me up for the rest of my life.

[David]

Yeah.

[Karen]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I haven't really processed it until this moment. It's true.

[Karen]

There are actually so many dads like that where you go back, you Captain Von Dra.

[Griffin]

Kind of the original hot dad.

[Karen]

The dad and Totoro. Absolutely me up.

[David]

Okay. But the dad and Totoro is a different vi and I love the dad and Toto, but that's sort of like bookish warm, you know, Sweetie pie, hot, jacked naked, just, like, starts taking us down this road. I'm like, he's so sweet with his kids. And Karen's like, yeah, sweet in a hot way.

[Karen]

He's in a hot tub.

[David]

He does get. Which was for a long time, I. My mother. My mother. My. I don't know what my mother thinks my daughter's favorite part of the movie was when they were all in the tub together.

[Karen]

Because they yell yes. Yeah.

[David]

And she likes how they yell because they're trying to scare off the script.

[Griffin]

So wait, who else? Karen? Tim Allen. The Santa Claus.

[Karen]

No.

[Griffin]

2 in the Santa Claus 3.

[David]

Santa Claus 3.

[Griffin]

Tim Allen and Jungle to Jungle.

[Karen]

Tim Allen voicing Buzz Lightyear.

[Griffin]

You see a chin on that guy?

[David]

Vantage Point. Have you seen Vantage Point? I've not it's like a Rashomon esque thing. Like there's an assassination attempt and we learn all of the vantage points seeing.

[Griffin]

It from different fantasies.

[David]

Haven't seen it.

[Griffin]

Neither have I.

[David]

Okay, well, we're going to move on then to a costume drama that is.

[Griffin]

The Other Boleyn Girl.

[David]

Horrendously bad.

[Griffin]

Other Boleyn Girl.

[David]

Justin Chadwick's the Other Boleyn Girl.

[Karen]

Oh, my gosh.

[David]

In which Natalie Portman plays Anne Boleyn and Scarlett Jahari Hansen plays that hussy Mary Boleyn, who we all forget Henry first had the affair with, for he trained his sights on Anne.

[Griffin]

This is a period of releases that I remember so vividly.

[David]

Eric Bana at the end, tail end of his movie star career. Like stomping around as Henry viii, embarrassing himself.

[Griffin]

I had like, spent like six, seven months in a suburb outside of California where I could take a bicycle to the one multiplex and only see things that were playing there. Or I had to talk someone to driving me me to a theater if there was something else I wanted to see. And this is like the first week I'm back in New York and I'm like, I have autonomy. I'm riding trains. Everything's playing. So I remember every movie that came out in this time period.

[David]

Wow. Have you seen the Other Berlin Girl?

[Karen]

No.

[David]

Do you care to learn about British history, Henry VIII and all this stuff?

[Karen]

Like Wolf Hall.

[David]

Exactly. So stick with that. I would say the Other Berlin Girl isn't going to offer you more shading. No, I'm just saying Wolf hall is a little more humanist, realistic. That's good stuff.

[Griffin]

I'm also just like, is it going to make sense if I haven't seen the first Balloon Girl?

[David]

Oh, boy.

[Griffin]

Now you want to tell me about the other one? Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[David]

Number four at the box office is an adaptation of a young adult fantasy series. No.

[Griffin]

Is it in the tent?

[Karen]

Is it in the tent?

[Griffin]

Is incart in the tent?

[David]

No. No.

[Karen]

When did I love inart?

[Griffin]

Thank you. I think inkart came out January 2008.

[David]

Yeah. And like, so you thought. You thought Inkheart made it all the way to late February. That thing fell out of theaters. Okay. It came out January 2009. So it's not out till next year. No, no. This is sort of similar to Inkheart. Inkheart, though, I feel like has the.

[Griffin]

The page of the Spiderwick Chronicles. Is it.

[David]

He doesn't let me finish. The Spiderwick Chronicles is the correct answer. Mark Waters is the Spiderwick Chronicles. Starring little good doctor himself, Freddy Highmore. Never seen it.

[Griffin]

David Strathearn, Mary Louise Parker. It's got a weirdly good cast. I've never seen it.

[David]

Yeah, Seth Rogen's in it, apparently. He must be a voice goblin, something like that. Yep. He's a bird eating hobgoblin called Hog Squeal.

[Karen]

That was incredible. That was such a great. Yeah.

[Griffin]

Have you seen Spiderwick?

[Karen]

No, I haven't.

[Griffin]

You haven't opened the Chronicles?

[Karen]

No, I haven't. But you know what? I. I have opened the other Chronicles of Narnia.

[David]

Bigger deal. A bigger deal.

[Griffin]

What about Riddick? You heard those tales.

[Karen]

No. Wait. What?

[Griffin]

This guy can see so well in the dark. It's nuts.

[Karen]

Wait, okay, random. Do you guys. Did you guys ever read Charlie Bone?

[Griffin]

Charlie.

[Karen]

I was trying to describe this to somebody and it felt like I was making it.

[David]

Yeah, that sounds like you hit your head. One of your famous concussions. Then came up with a young adult.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Karen]

My friend was like, are you trying to.

[David]

Children of the Red King.

[Karen]

Yes.

[David]

A series of 10 fantasy books.

[Karen]

Yes. And it's. But when I was describing it out loud, it just sounds like someone mistakenly like having a bad memory. Trying to recall Harry Potter.

[David]

It's like 10 year old Charlie Bone discovers he has a special power. So far we're in Harry Potter land.

[Karen]

He goes to a magic school. But it's a weekly school where he comes back home on the weekend.

[David]

Dude, this sounds good.

[Karen]

It's amazing.

[David]

Blors Academy.

[Griffin]

But Mr.

[David]

Ominous and his three magical cats. Is it good?

[Karen]

I loved it as a kid.

[Griffin]

They never made a movie.

[Karen]

This though, I don't.

[David]

So Griffin's not aware of it. Well, I'm seeing on Wikipedia the film adaptations tab. Let's see. In 2023, Amazon announced that it was in the works. Joseph finds Carmen Ajogo.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

Who knows what's come of it since.

[Griffin]

Series or film?

[David]

Film.

[Griffin]

I was gonna say this is the era 2008 where it's like everyone trying to identify what the next Harry Potter is. And all of them either basically tap out at two or the first one bombs. There's a lot of these. And then I feel like 10 years later it becomes we're gonna do it for TV instead. Yeah, but the sort of like Percy Jackson hits a wall at 2.

[Karen]

Yes, I loved Percy Jackson.

[Griffin]

Mortal Instruments never gets off the ground.

[Karen]

Right. Artemis Fowl.

[Griffin]

Artemis Fowl.

[David]

I mean that's a lot of these though. You're absolutely right, Aragon. Wait, I recently the whole thing with Eragon was that it was like a child wrote this and you're like, don't brag about it. It's fine for adults to write. We don't need to hand them over to children.

[Karen]

Also, I recently realized that Eragon is just dragon, but the first letter swapped and I was so upset.

[Griffin]

Yeah. You know what? That sounds like something a title year.

[David]

Old will come up with. They're like, just print it. This sells.

[Griffin]

This book was written by a teenager. You'll never believe it, but he was homeschooled. Yeah. Checks out.

[David]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin]

Makes sense.

[David]

So. But no one's ever done the Tripod trilogy. There's like, there's certain, like, young adult I read as a kid that has never been. Bruce Coville has never been done in a proper way.

[Griffin]

Right. You love.

[David]

I love those books a lot.

[Griffin]

But they did them for tv.

[David]

They did a TV movie once or whatever.

[Griffin]

They did a couple them.

[David]

But it's like, come on. Like there's still stuff on the vine. Ben looks so upset at me. Okay.

[Ben]

Number five, Tripod trilogy.

[David]

Tripod trilogy is cool. Spooky.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

You hear they're doing a gender swapped holes.

[Karen]

Oh, I did hear about this. But I was excited because the main character is one of the girls from the babysitters club.

[Griffin]

Look, they announced. Good people. I. I did have a little bit of a what are we doing here? Reaction where I'm like, was this a leftover memo from 2018 where they were like, I don't know, holes. But girls.

[David]

But the thing with. With holes is it's like the book's good and the movie's good. Must we? Right?

[Karen]

That's a good question.

[David]

I don't know. Like, it's like we kind of did it. Right? Right. We all agree that Holes is good.

[Karen]

Quick roundup of David's points during this thing.

[David]

Karen's about to nail me.

[Karen]

Should not be a comedy.

[David]

Some of those are jokes.

[Karen]

Only girl. The only good women are high school girls. No gender swapping. Keep the boys boy.

[Griffin]

Women can't dig holes.

[David]

I'll say that. I've never read Holes.

[Griffin]

It's a great book.

[David]

I know. It's well loved and I like the movie. I only saw it the one time, but I know it's beloved.

[Griffin]

Loved.

[David]

Right. People still talk about that movie fondly.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

But yeah, maybe. What is it they take home? They're in like a young. They're like in a correctional. Like, it's like a kid.

[Griffin]

I don't want to spoil Holes, but the plot threads come together very well. It's like told cross cut between that and the stories of this like old west outlaw lady. Right. And then it. All the threads come together in a very satisfying way. But it is. Right. It was an excellent book. I feel like it's one of the most kind of like now below classic like long form children.

[David]

It's like the Giver. It's on that. It's on the.

[Griffin]

It's kind of on the immortal list. And then they made a movie where everyone was like, wow, pleasantly surprised. They adapted this well. They hired good people and you're like just doing it with girls instead. Doesn't feel like, oh, we have a really new in.

[David]

Karen roasted us. I feel like we should just support it. We should just say it's good.

[Griffin]

Old girl boss gang.

[David]

Remember when they made a movie, the Giver and it stunk. That was so unique.

[Griffin]

But they tried to make the Giver in the style of all the movies.

[David]

I know they were doing like a young adult fantasies.

[Griffin]

They did it as if it was like divergence.

[Karen]

Really?

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Interesting because in the Gift, Meryl Streep is in it and Jeff Bridges.

[Griffin]

Taylor Swift, isn't it?

[Karen]

Wait, what?

[Griffin]

But they aged them all up to like teenagers. So it could be more like post Twilight moody drama romance.

[David]

Look, what's important is that fifth at the box office is another book adaptation. Kind of young adulty, a little more mainstream action kind of franchisee.

[Griffin]

It's not Jumper, is it?

[David]

It is Jumper. I mean, how the hell are you doing this? I told you, this is a very. You were leaving college. It was a big moment.

[Griffin]

I was leaving college. I made the bad choice to go to University of Crawley crawling. And I was like, why am I going backwards? I already learned how to.

[David]

You know what? I was living in Paris at the time. Wow.

[Griffin]

Sexiest period where he went to Paris. He lived in Paris and he was a bartender.

[Karen]

Yeah. We have to be understanding because in Paris they call college crawlage.

[David]

You know, I go to college. Yeah. Jumper, which is also bad.

[Griffin]

Really bad.

[David]

Yeah. Doug Lyman's job. Have you seen Jumper?

[Karen]

No.

[David]

Hayden Christensen play some someone who learns to teleport.

[Griffin]

And our friend Jamie.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

A bit of a rapscallion. He's another jumper named Griffin. The other thing with that movie, it's the same thing as the Giver. The characters in the book are like 12. They announced it. It was cast with 12 year olds. And then like a month before filming, the head of Fox went to Doug Lyman and is like 12 year olds aren't cool. Oh, no, don't you want this to be a blockbuster cast older. And they dropped the whole cast. It starts the first 15 minutes for them as 12 year olds and then it like jumps ahead and then he was like, hayden Christensen is box office gold. Rewrite this for Hayden Christensen and I'll give you an extra $20 million in the budget.

[David]

Jesus.

[Griffin]

And the movie sucks.

[David]

Yes. And Hayden is not good in it.

[Griffin]

But it's stuck in a weird zone between being like a YA thing and trying to be like a cooler, edgier, like Matrix sexy thing.

[David]

Right. So that's the top five. Number six at the box office is Step up to the Streets.

[Karen]

Oh, I watched that. Harry Shum Jr. Was in it and I thought he was so handsome.

[David]

Harry Shum Jr. Is a very good looking guy who's a very good dancer.

[Karen]

I think I was just really excited to see like an Asian person. And then I don't think he had any lines.

[David]

Well, I mean, lines aren't really the point of the Step up movies. It's not really about what they're saying. Steps.

[Karen]

And you know what he did?

[Griffin]

He did one of the greatest titles of all time.

[David]

Step up to the Street.

[Griffin]

No, Colon.

[David]

Yes. Number seven at the box office is the.

[Griffin]

That's what makes it good. Cuz you're like, oh, what? It's called Step up to Colon the Streets. No, it's a command.

[David]

But it kind of makes you think.

[Griffin]

About asking you to step up to the street.

[Karen]

Yeah, yeah.

[David]

Number six. The box office is. The flop is vague. Flop. Fool's gold with Matthew McConaughey and Kate Hudson and they're searching for treasure.

[Griffin]

You know what's funny about that movie? What? It's nothing. Unrepentant dog.

[David]

Who. Who made it?

[Griffin]

It's Andy Flickman.

[David]

I want to say Andy Tenant.

[Griffin]

I get Flickman and Tenant.

[David]

Okay, number.

[Griffin]

Did he also do how to Lose a guy in 10 days? I feel like it was an exact re team.

[David]

Yeah, sure. Andy Flickman's the guy who did the one where like the Rock plays football or whatever.

[Griffin]

Oh, right, yeah.

[David]

Game plan. Number eight at the box office is no country for Old man in.

[Griffin]

Oh, now that's quite a good.

[David]

Which of course is about to win best picture at the Oscars.

[Griffin]

We will be covering it soon on this podcast.

[David]

That's also true.

[Griffin]

That's also true.

[David]

And number nine at the box office new this week is the Christina Ricci sort of Sundance hit megaflop, Penelope.

[Griffin]

Oh, she's a lady with a pig nose.

[David]

Right? That's what that is. Right?

[Griffin]

What it's about the plot of that movie is Christina Rishi has a pig nose and she has to wear scarlet scarf over her face so that people don't judge her. And James McAvoy is her love interest. And I think Reese Witherspoon plays like a badass biker.

[Karen]

Okay.

[Griffin]

Never seen Reese Witherspoon produced it.

[David]

Yes, she did. At number 10 at the box office, which I did see this one. I think I saw it in France, but I'm not sure. My scene in England was the somewhat charming romantic comedy. Definitely. Maybe that movie. Ryan Reynolds. Pretty charming and Rachel Weisz and Elizabeth Banks.

[Karen]

Wow.

[David]

It's kind of cute.

[Karen]

I haven't seen it, but it sounds like something I would really like.

[David]

It's kind of like what we, you know, Reynolds at his most calm.

[Karen]

Okay.

[Griffin]

This.

[David]

Still doing a little bit of his, like.

[Griffin]

But I was so all in. And Ryan Reynolds. And I was like, what do I have to do to get the public on board with this guy as a movie star? And the public is like, wish I dream. And now I live in a hell of my own wishing. I don't like anything he does anymore. And we've, like, lost, like, this era of, like, Just Friends. Definitely. Maybe Adventureland.

[David]

Just saying this in a group chat of ours.

[Griffin]

Just Friends is coming out on Blu Ray. And Alex Ross Perry was joking, like.

[David]

Who is going to ever buy this?

[Griffin]

And I was like, I've been writing letters to Congress.

[David]

Right. You were like, I dreamed of a world where this was the kind of thing he did in Alex and I Dream of a world where he doesn't exist and never did.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

I thought it was a good rejoinder. How do you feel about Ryan Reynolds?

[Karen]

Oh, I think I always forget he exists. And then when I relearn about him, I'm a little bit annoyed.

[David]

There you go.

[Griffin]

That's a great.

[David]

That's what I felt when he popped up on SNL50, where I was like, oh. And then I was like, all right, can we be done?

[Karen]

Yeah.

[David]

You like Ryan Reynolds. He's your favorite actor, right? You told me that recently. No.

[Karen]

Ben is currently wearing a Ryan Reynolds T shirt.

[David]

Yes, he is. And it says like, like dead crossed out. Oh, no. You've also got Juno still hanging around at the box office.

[Griffin]

What's Juno up to at this point?

[David]

$135 million.

[Griffin]

So it's still going to make another 30.

[David]

That's crazy. You've got the Martin Lawrence. Is it Martin Lawrence? Yeah, Martin Lawrence film. Welcome home, Rosco Jenkins.

[Griffin]

Oh, yeah.

[David]

And you've Got be kind. Rewind.

[Griffin]

Yeah. My most anticipated movie of 2008 did not live up to expectations.

[David]

Not a very good movie.

[Griffin]

Now, an interesting curiosity, but at the time I was like, michel Gondry is gonna make a Jack Black most deaf movie.

[Karen]

Wow.

[Griffin]

Where they have to remake all the most popular blockbusters of the last 50 years. It did. I mean, look, it kind of.

[David]

It's a great premise.

[Griffin]

It's a great premise and like, it does have the lasting legacy of people doing the thing.

[David]

Yeah, whatever.

[Karen]

Rewinding.

[Griffin]

Making your own, like, low budget cardboard shot for shot recreation. Yeah.

[David]

Even that feels kind of out of date. Yeah.

[Griffin]

But it lasted for a couple years.

[David]

Karen, what's up with you? What should we plug?

[Karen]

Oh, nothing.

[Griffin]

What?

[David]

Yeah, what have you been in LA doing?

[Karen]

Oh, I have been working on a show.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

And it was a lot like this movie.

[Karen]

I worked on a show called A Man on the Inside. It's like a sweet. A little mystery comedy starring Ted Danson and he's having a pretty good time.

[David]

It's on Netflix, right?

[Karen]

Yeah, season one is on Netflix. I've been working on season two.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Karen]

That when hopefully will also be on Netflix.

[David]

Champion your will be weird if it wasn't.

[Karen]

I. Yeah, it would be strange. But I would love to plug. I think I would just love to plug Yo Yo Ma.

[David]

That guy doesn't get enough.

[Griffin]

It's actually rude. We've never had him on the show. Yeah.

[David]

Anytime Yo Yo Ma does a little cameo or a little like talking head thing, I'm like, Yo Yo Ma's funny.

[Griffin]

Because he like vamps.

[David]

Has he seen vampire Yo Yo Ma? You like vamps? My friend was at Carnegie hall recently and he said, the cello cases or the cello. The things holding cellos are orange now.

[Karen]

Oh.

[David]

And he was disturbed by this.

[Karen]

Was he at the Yo Yo Ma concert on Thursday?

[David]

I think he was. Wow.

[Karen]

Incredible.

[David]

I don't know. He was talking to me about this.

[Karen]

Wow.

[David]

But it was. I don't have enough for you on this. I'm sorry. We can cut that out of the episode.

[Griffin]

No, keep it in and double it then.

[Ben]

Can I share a little Paul Rudd story, please?

[David]

Was he at the Spotted Pig one day time?

[Ben]

I don't think so.

[David]

Okay, fair enough.

[Ben]

My friend Nate, who has been helping me out with getting to the gym, shout out to Nate.

[Griffin]

You've been.

[David]

Are you saying Nate's your trainer or you've been working?

[Ben]

Sound like Nate's sort of like, like a accountability buddy. But he also knows way around the gym in a way where, like, I'M so rusty and just, like, I feel out of sorts. So I just need someone to be like, do this.

[David]

And what's the address of your gym? And when do you go there?

[Griffin]

I just want to say. Ben says, I have a story to share. I look over to Karen. Karen mouths to me, I have to go. And it's like, comically out of here. Ben starts telling the story in the slowest way possible.

[David]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[Griffin]

Podcast is built on lies.

[Karen]

That's okay. Can I use the bathroom? Okay. Thank you.

[Griffin]

So you use the bathroom. We'll tell you whether or not the Paul Rudd story is worth hearing when you get out. Okay. Finish the story.

[David]

Nathan's been keeping you accountable at the gym.

[Ben]

Yes. And so Nate used to work for Stuttering association for the Young. Paul Rudd is really involved with that nonprofit. He had, like, a role like a Broadway show, Three Days of Rain, and got involved with the organization.

[Griffin]

Julia Roberts and Bradley Cooper, one of the most stacked Broadway casts ever, weirdly.

[Ben]

And so he now does an annual fundraiser where he basically has, like, a bowling event.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And like, gets celebrities to come out. And so Nate was running that event and got to hang out with Paul Rudd a bunch.

[David]

And he sucks and is really mean.

[Ben]

No, he's like the best guy. But so Paul Rudd, though, showed him about this bit that he's been doing.

[Griffin]

Is it the finger thing?

[Ben]

Yes. Do you know about this, David? All right, so I'm texting.

[David]

I know he has a thread.

[Griffin]

Well, he's got like.

[David]

It's like an invite only bar.

[Griffin]

It's not like an actual business. It's like he's built an Irish pub in the basement of his house, which I've heard is rad as hell.

[David]

Go there.

[Ben]

That's awesome.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So he has this bit that he's been doing where he holds his finger up in front of the. The camera of the cell phone in just a way where it looks like a butt.

[Griffin]

It looks like a butt with. And then he has a modified version of it where he can make it look like you're seeing the back of a ball sack underneath the life.

[Ben]

And so to bring up Graham Norton, he tells the story on the Graham Norton show, right?

[Griffin]

Yes. I remember seeing him on some talk show give the walkthrough of how to do it.

[Ben]

Yeah. But I sent over a couple of pictures that illustrated how to do it effectively.

[David]

Yeah, yeah. We can post this to social. Of course.

[Griffin]

Okay. Will you text this one with Ben's face to Karen right now? I'll Text and then this is going to be right without context because you missed the story worry. Let's just see how you respond to this. Karen, thank you so much for being here.

[Karen]

Thank you so much for having me.

[David]

Sorry we kept you so long.

[Karen]

No, it's okay.

[Griffin]

Do you want to drop that letterbox handle? Are we trying to keep that private?

[Karen]

Oh, my gosh. No, it's just my name. My name is Karen and my last name is Chi.

[David]

Pretty sure it's Kenny Chi, but.

[Griffin]

Right. Because you'd be Login.

[Karen]

Right, Right, right, right, right. I should change it to IV Login.

[Griffin]

Absolutely.

[David]

We just sent you a picture of Ben doing a finger trick that looks like a bug.

[Karen]

Wait, what do you want me to look?

[David]

Just look at the photo.

[Ben]

Just look and smile.

[Griffin]

It's a Paul Red thing. Oh.

[David]

What? That's why I was preparing her. It seems a little aggressive to text it out of context.

[Griffin]

It's a trick where you hold your finger in front of the lens and it looks like there's a butt.

[Karen]

Oh, you know what? This doesn't really look like a butt.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I don't know how well bended.

[Ben]

Okay, well, those are just examples. Paul Rudd, I'm sure, is like a pro.

[Griffin]

It's the best of everything. You want to do another round?

[Ben]

Do you want to try it again?

[David]

But be nice about it.

[Karen]

So late to meet my aunt, though. I do have to go.

[Griffin]

Thank you.

[Karen]

I love.

[David]

It is so funny that you have a busy schedule today that it's your aunts and you got to go see your aunt. So get out of here.

[Griffin]

Big ups to Karen's aunt.

[Karen]

Thank you for having me.

[Griffin]

Tune in next week for Vamps, with our friend Caroline Framkey returning to the show for the first time in Way too long.

[David]

Way too long.

[Griffin]

And as always. All right. Don't say all right. Help me out here.

[David]

Can he be logging?

[Griffin]

Can he be logging?

[Karen]

Kenny be login.

[Griffin]

Can we be login?

[Ben]

The butt story was worth it.

[Griffin]

Okay. Of course.

[David]

So worth it. So worth it. I mean, glad to hear he's a nice guy.

[Ben]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smith. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on Social blankcheckpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by blankcheck Productions.