Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom with Olivia Craighead

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David: Episode Summary Episode: Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom with Olivia Craighead
Release Date: March 2, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Blank Check with Griffin & David, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims welcome guest Olivia Craighead to delve deep into the complexities of one of the most controversial entries in the Indiana Jones franchise: "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom." Produced by Ben Hosley, the episode promises a thorough examination of the film's reception, thematic depth, and its place within Spielberg and Lucas's expansive careers.

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Main Discussion: Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

Reception and Franchise Comparison

Griffin Newman opens the discussion by reflecting on his personal journey with the Indiana Jones series, sharing, "I've still not finished Sopranos," at [00:55]. The conversation quickly pivots to exploring the mixed receptions of "Temple of Doom" compared to its predecessors.

David Sims highlights the documentary about David Chase and the Sopranos, indirectly setting the stage for a broader conversation about character complexities, stating at [01:04], "Have you watched it called Wise Guy, in which he's just interviewing David Chase about the Sopranos." This segues into the intricate dynamics of character development in long-standing franchises.

Character Analysis

The trio delves into Indiana Jones' portrayal in "Temple of Doom," especially focusing on the introduction of new characters like Willie Scott and Short Round. Griffin articulates his frustration: "I tend to always lean in even if I think they don't work... but I would rather see this movie taking place after Raiders," at [28:05]. This sentiment underscores his disappointment with the character arcs that deviate from the beloved dynamics established in earlier films.

Olivia adds depth by sharing her family's collection of the Indiana Jones series, noting, "We got to pump it the brakes for, like, these two children," at [02:28]. This highlights the film's attempt to cater to younger audiences, which, according to the hosts, may have diluted its original charm.

Thematic Depth and Darker Tone

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing the film's tonal shift. Griffin posits, "The core darkness from Spielberg's end is coming from the shadow of Twilight Zone," at [46:50], suggesting personal and professional struggles influenced the movie's gritty atmosphere. David concurs, linking the darker undertones to external pressures: "He didn't wanna do Nazis... what are midichlorians?..." at [16:25].

The hosts debate whether the darker themes enhance or undermine the Indiana Jones legacy. David mentions, "you know what happened to him?" reflecting on the inconsistencies in character motivations within the film.

Spielberg and Lucas's Influence

The episode also examines the collaborative dynamics between Steven Spielberg and George Lucas. Griffin remarks, "This is like the nadir of George Lucas's, like, personal life dissolving," at [30:01], hinting at how personal turmoil may have seeped into their professional projects. The discussion touches upon the pressure of creating sequels to monumental successes and how it impacts creative decisions.

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Additional Insights: Sequels and Spielberg's Career

Navigating Franchises and Legacy

Griffin and David explore the broader implications of maintaining a franchise's integrity amidst evolving cinematic landscapes. Griffin questions the necessity of sequels, especially prequels that attempt to add depth but risk altering the established narrative: "They don't have to," at [44:16]. This leads to a critique of how "Temple of Doom" doesn't align seamlessly with "Raiders of the Lost Ark," affecting audience perception.

Comparisons to Other Films

The conversation broadens to include comparisons with other iconic films and franchises. Griffin draws parallels between the tonal shifts in Indiana Jones and those in Star Wars, while David brings up the effectiveness of set pieces in movies like "Lost World" and "Jurassic Park," highlighting Spielberg's mastery in creating engaging, action-packed scenes.

Olivia contributes by reflecting on the emotional resonance of Spielberg's films, such as "Schindler's List," emphasizing how personal experiences shape cinematic narratives.

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Conclusion and Teasers

As the episode wraps up, Griffin and David tease upcoming discussions, including a deep dive into the Jurassic Park franchise and a bonus episode on "The Twilight Zone." Olivia hints at future plans, inviting listeners to connect with her through her work at thecut.com.

Griffin humorously ties back to the episode's theme, stating, "We got to get back above ground," at [156:18], encapsulating the desire to return to the roots of adventure without the overshadowing darkness.

The hosts also encourage listeners to join their Patreon for exclusive content and to engage with them on social media, ensuring the community remains active and involved.

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Notable Quotes

• Griffin Newman at [44:07]: "There is a Chiron, is there not?" – Reflecting on narrative consistency.
• Olivia Craighead at [86:34]: "But it's also not even like a good joke." – Critiquing the film's humor.
• David Sims at [00:58]: "I was happy in Shanghai. I had a little house and a garden." – Highlighting off-screen conversations impacting on-screen dynamics.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Blank Check with Griffin & David offers a multifaceted exploration of "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom," balancing critical analysis with personal anecdotes and broader reflections on filmmaking. Guests and hosts alike provide insights into the challenges of sustaining beloved franchises, the impact of personal struggles on creative outputs, and the delicate balance between catering to new audiences while honoring established lore.

For those who haven't listened yet, this summary encapsulates the essence of the discussion, offering a comprehensive look into one of cinema's most debated sequels.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[David Sims]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't know what to say or to expect.

[David Sims]

All you need to know is that the name of the shadow is Blackjack.

[Griffin Newman]

I was happy in Shanghai. I had a little house and a garden. My friends were rich. We went to parties all the time in limousines. I hate being outside. I'm a podcaster. I could lose my voice.

[David Sims]

I don't know. Maybe you need to be more hysterical.

[Griffin Newman]

I think I was a little too muted in that performance.

[David Sims]

That was very good, actually.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a little bit like Lorraine Bracco in Medicine Man.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Where there is no way you can over if you're just like, actually, she's louder than that.

[David Sims]

Great. Segue into what I wanted to talk about. Great.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, here we go.

[David Sims]

There's an HBO Max documentary about David Chase directed by Alex Gibney, who directs like 18 documentaries a year.

[Olivia Craighead]

Right.

[David Sims]

Have you watched it called Wise Guy, in which he's just interviewing David Chase about the Sopranos. But you like the Sopranos.

[Olivia Craighead]

I love the Sopranos.

[David Sims]

Okay. So you should watch it.

[Olivia Craighead]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Because even though it's recycling a fair amount of anecdotes, I feel like we know about the Sopranos. David Chase is such an interesting dark.

[Griffin Newman]

Ass also, let's say maybe the sleepiest looking of all time, but.

[David Sims]

And like, truly incredibly eloquent. Really interesting to hear him talking, like. And like Gibney has like, you know, taped him to a chair and it's basically like talk really candid about Gandolfini and how complicated the relationship was and how tough Gandolfini was on set and all this shit. It's all great.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of a Willie Scott in that dynamic.

[David Sims]

You're saying Gandolfini was the.

[Griffin Newman]

Was a Willie Scott to David Chase's Indiana.

[David Sims]

Indiana Jones? Are we sure?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. Go on. I shouldn't cut you off. I reached a conclusion.

[David Sims]

They low cut to Braco sometimes. And she, she's. She's very upfront too, where she's like, I'm so not like Melfi. And what she should be saying is like, I'm really like Medicine man lady. Like, that's my vibe.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Because she is like, loud and like, you watch her talking and you're like, melfi's an incredible performance. She, like, really likes, you know. Anyway, and off mic, I was asking our guest, is Ham kind of the greatest TV performance?

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But then I think you do have. You know, Sopranos is very.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think it's Gandalfine. It's Gandalfine. Or I think you can make the argument for Jon Hamm.

[David Sims]

I was thinking, watch Mad Men.

[Olivia Craighead]

Earlier today, I think I saw, like, a post about Mad Men, and I was like, that's the great American novel.

[David Sims]

It is.

[Olivia Craighead]

It is kind of.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the best.

[David Sims]

And obviously, it's a seed that sprouted from the Sopranos, right? Like, you know, Weiner worked on Sopranos and all that, but. But, yeah, you got to watch Wise Guy and text me about it.

[Griffin Newman]

I've still not finished Sopranos.

[David Sims]

Well, you made it.

[Olivia Craighead]

How far did you go?

[Griffin Newman]

I was barreling through the first three seasons.

[David Sims]

You made it to. Right? To the point where I do think a lot of people are like, I'm a little overwhelmed. I need a break.

[Olivia Craighead]

Is that when, like, Ralphie shows up?

[David Sims]

Ralphie shows up in season three?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Season three is the really nasty. It's a great season, but it's where Chase feels like. He's kind of like, I feel like you motherfuckers don't get that these are bad people, but this is.

[Griffin Newman]

The other part of it is that, like, I don't love mob shit, right? And season three is when it starts to become clear that it's like, there's.

[David Sims]

A lot of mob politics. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Is kind of, like, subsiding. That stops being the superstructure of the.

[Olivia Craighead]

Show that does that whole part sort of does sort of fade away. And they're like, how do we keep Melfi in this show?

[Griffin Newman]

I felt very disappointed by that. Yeah.

[David Sims]

But it is much like real therapy, right? It's like, a couple years in, you are kind of often having kind of the same conversations, and there's only so much more dramatic.

[Griffin Newman]

I got huge shit happening in therapy these days. That's good.

[David Sims]

That's good. I'm very happy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we got new showrunners came in and really have a new take on.

[David Sims]

How to do it, man. David Chase, though, he's just. He's a scary dude. If I had to work for him, I would. I would be so scared to work for that scary motherfucking guy. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but scary in a very specific way.

[David Sims]

In a sleepy way.

[Griffin Newman]

In a very sleepy way.

[David Sims]

But he feels like the kind of, like, dad you would never satisfy if you work for him. Where you'd be like, what about this? And he'd be like, no. And you're like, okay. And he's like, I wrote this. And you're like, well, that's. That's like, incredible.

[Olivia Craighead]

Are Vince Gilligan and Matt Weiner both from Sopranos?

[David Sims]

No, I think Gilligan is from the X Files. That's the tree.

[Olivia Craighead]

I knew he was from somewhere.

[David Sims]

He was an X Files alum. No, I feel like Chase's big alums are Terence Winter, who did Boardwalk Empire and stuff and Vinyl.

[Griffin Newman]

Right now. Tulsa King.

[David Sims]

Yep. And Matt Weiner, of course. Robin Green and Mitchell Burgess went on to create Blue Bloods, which has gone on.

[Griffin Newman]

Is still on the air, I think just ended.

[David Sims]

Okay. Was it was Tom Selleck, the police commissioner for like 14 seasons. Like, how many mayors did he serve under?

[Griffin Newman]

I think he's.

[David Sims]

How much time passed?

[Griffin Newman]

I think he's retired at a certain point because the dynasty was. Len Carew was a. Len Carew is the.

[David Sims]

Is the retired former.

[Olivia Craighead]

How do you guys know this about Blue?

[Griffin Newman]

Excuse me. I was on two episodes as a Texas.

[David Sims]

Donnie didn't like him.

[Griffin Newman]

Wonder Boy Johnson. Donnie did not like me. The first time he said, why we hired this guy? We could have cast anyone. And the second time he said, why'd we bring this guy back?

[Olivia Craighead]

Are you playing the same guy? Are you saying this playing the same guy both times?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

Or is it like a Law and Order thing?

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, I was playing. It was.

[Olivia Craighead]

It was a recurring character.

[Griffin Newman]

Possible recurring.

[David Sims]

Right. That did not recur and done. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He literally walked on set and went, we brought this guy back.

[Olivia Craighead]

Damn.

[Griffin Newman]

Did not like me because I did not like the. Out of my chair.

[David Sims]

I love when a show like that runs so long and you're like, yeah, I get the premise is right. Carrie. Use the retired commissioner. Tom Selleck is the commissioner. Donnie Wahlberg is the son who's like.

[Griffin Newman]

A cop or whatever it was in.

[Olivia Craighead]

Is someone also like the da Is.

[David Sims]

There like Bridget Moynihan?

[Griffin Newman]

Bridget Moynihan. And then, by the way, this is blank. Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[David Sims]

I'm David.

[Griffin Newman]

It's podcast about filmography's directors of a massive success early on.

[David Sims]

Steven Spielberg checks. I'm sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

So we can have our crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those are clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. We're doing a miniseries on the films of Steven Spielberg. It's called Podrasic Cast. Today we're talking about Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. It's called what Podrasic Cast.

[Olivia Craighead]

Okay, who's our guest?

[Griffin Newman]

Racik.

[David Sims]

Who's our wonderful, wonderful guest? In from out of town.

[Griffin Newman]

Returning to the show. In from out of Town.

[Olivia Craighead]

Hello.

[Griffin Newman]

The incredible Olivia Craighead.

[Olivia Craighead]

Hi, guys.

[Griffin Newman]

And pin in the conversation. We're getting back to the blue LEDs conversation.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Someone recently brought to my attention. Has iconography been pulled from the Internet.

[Olivia Craighead]

Oh, has it? I don't know. They didn't tell me.

[Griffin Newman]

I saw.

[Olivia Craighead]

Don't think they told either.

[Griffin Newman]

There was a flare in the sky recently. Oh, I downloaded all the episodes. Well, permanently, like a year ago. I was like, I gotta worry. I have a feeling.

[Olivia Craighead]

I fear we'll say ultimately that might be for the best because we were talking a lot, very candidly.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I can't think of one example of how that would possibly come back to bite.

[Olivia Craighead]

It would really hurt my career.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the problem.

[Olivia Craighead]

I was talking some about famous people.

[Griffin Newman]

And they might get doing you a mitzvah.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

If she allowed the show to be taken down.

[David Sims]

Last time you joined the five Timers club, Liv.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yes.

[David Sims]

This time it's just your sixth episode.

[Olivia Craighead]

This time I'm just chilling.

[David Sims]

Yeah, you're just chilling.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, dare I say it, this is in a lot of ways, you're welcome to move sport, because there was a notion last time. Do you have to retire? Yeah, you did. Your fifth episode was Steve Jobs, one.

[Olivia Craighead]

Of my favorite movies of all time.

[Griffin Newman]

And now, Danny Boyle.

[Olivia Craighead]

We're here to just chat about kind of a movie.

[Griffin Newman]

But also in that episode, you revealed that you had left us a burger report. Oh, yeah, that was played out on mic about Danny Bole.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

So it is kind of like before we knew you. Yeah, it was kind of like I made a half court shot.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Olivia Craighead]

And now like, what, two years later, full circle moment.

[Griffin Newman]

How is it ever going to get better than.

[David Sims]

Right, you're back and you're just going to like, be like 12 and 8.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like we're going to try our best.

[David Sims]

22 minutes.

[Griffin Newman]

Blue bloods. The brilliance of the show. Len Carry, you retired. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Right. Tom Selleck, Commissioner. And then the three kids were like, beat cop detective and D, A lawyer.

[David Sims]

Sure. So it's sort of like a law and order style show with like upper city hall politics.

[Griffin Newman]

So there was all like, family dinner table. Weekly family dinner, wherever it comes.

[Olivia Craighead]

I feel like the key art was always dinner table.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. But then the show could always be like, there are two cases every week and they can be distributed across any of the characters.

[David Sims]

Right. Different view, but there could also be some soapy drama. Yes, but like, kind of a good.

[Olivia Craighead]

Idea for a show.

[David Sims]

No wonder it ran for a zillion years.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like a perfect idea for a TV show.

[David Sims]

And like, you know, like Jack Ryan. Right. You check in with like, the shadow.

[Griffin Newman]

Recruit, you talk about the Shadow Recruit.

[David Sims]

Right. Like, what happened later with Jack Ryan?

[Griffin Newman]

Like, the books.

[David Sims]

No, the books that, like, never got turned into movies. Like, yeah, he becomes the president, America goes to war with China. Like, all kinds of insane shit happens because he had to just keep writing stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So like in blue blood, season 10. Yeah. Is like, Donnie Wahlberg, the mayor? Like, no one will tell me because no one's checking in.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct.

[David Sims]

It's airing.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's at a certain point after a TV show hits season seven, it's like, who knows what's happening? Who knows what's happening at crazy.

[David Sims]

Exactly. Where you're like, what happened? And they're like, ah. Lexi Gray, you know, has a Terminator eye. And you're like, she does. And you're like, yeah, come on. You knew about that. Surely.

[Griffin Newman]

She got it.

[David Sims]

In the fourth musical episode, McDreamy came.

[Griffin Newman]

Back as a ghost, and then she dumped the ghost version of him because maybe the actor was difficult to work with. They thought he had humbled and he hadn't.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think he did come back as a ghost when she had co host and she was on the COVID Beach.

[David Sims]

Yes. There's the COVID beach season. Right. Where they acknowledge and then don't they have an episode after that where they're like, Covid will no longer be mentioned on this show because we're sick of it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And that was that.

[Olivia Craighead]

I love the seasons of TV from, like, 2020 where it's like everyone's wearing a mask. And like, their Law and Order also does this where they're like, Covid's here.

[David Sims]

I do not, I guess, watch enough television.

[Olivia Craighead]

It happened on, like, network shows.

[David Sims]

Yeah, exactly. I don't watch much. The only network show I watch is Abbott Elementary. I think that's the only network show I watch.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Which rocks. To be clear. I watch it because it's good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But is there any other.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think I should get into Dr. Odyssey.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you're not the first.

[David Sims]

Speaking of COVID come aboard.

[Olivia Craighead]

Guys, you have to get. Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone's like the ship.

[David Sims]

Joshua Jackson's in a throuple, and he's like, fucking a cocktail. And I'm like, and this is working.

[Olivia Craighead]

A cocktail.

[Griffin Newman]

He's putting his penis in a martini.

[David Sims]

Exactly. And I'm like, huh? And this is on Showtime. Like, no, no, it's on CBS or whatever. It's Fox.

[Olivia Craighead]

No, it's on abc.

[Griffin Newman]

It's on abc.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's. It's a riot. It's. It's on the same night as 91 1.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

But okay. But then also I was told that in 91 1, or possibly the 911 spinoff, an asteroid hit Texas.

[Olivia Craighead]

That's 911 Lone Star.

[David Sims]

But like, like there was like a meteor that struck the Earth or did Rob Lowe stop it?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. John Ham played the meteor. It's a full season arc. We were talking about how Jon Hamm's on too many TV shows. That's what led to the conversation about is he the best TV actor?

[David Sims]

No. Is it the best TV performance? Cause I like him generally fine. But there's nothing like him as a Draper.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

The only network show I ostensibly watch, I would say is the Conners, the best written comedy on television.

[David Sims]

But that's wrapping up.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just ending. And I had to stop watching it during the pandemic because they were doing episodes about the pandemic, as they should. It's topical, multi camera show, but with no audience. Now felt the difference.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Cause I contended that was the only live studio audience show where you felt the interplay. And I had to like wait three years. And I finally have now made it through the COVID years of Connors, which are good, I think. Well done. But I did not want to fucking watch them in 2020.

[David Sims]

There's an NCIS origins. I'm just looking.

[Griffin Newman]

It's young Grisham.

[Olivia Craighead]

Just like what's on TV right now.

[David Sims]

What's on the schedule?

[Olivia Craighead]

Isn't it young Jethro Gibbs?

[David Sims]

It's young Mark Harmon, played by Austin Stowell.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry, I thought you said csi. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And then we're gonna talk about Indiana Jones, a very big franchise.

[David Sims]

We'll do it in a second.

[Griffin Newman]

Mark Harmon's son was playing the younger version of his character. Across seasons, they would do occasional flashback episodes and his son played the role. And at some point, I think his son and Harmon together went to CBS as part of probably some renegotiation on Harmon's part. And we're like, we want to pitch the idea of doing a full NCIS Origins. And they were like, we love that idea now.

[David Sims]

You should.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So he has been paid a tremendous amount of money to get off creator producer credit.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Has given a bunch of interviews. Being like it was. They. It was time for me to step back, you know. And then they did a big casting search to find who the new young Mark Harmon was.

[David Sims]

But this fuck.

[Griffin Newman]

It's no longer Mark Herman and he's probably going to make $1 trillion.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's good for him. Then you don't have to star on a network TV show, which sounds like.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of work anyone could ever have.

[David Sims]

Should I watch St. Denis Medical? That's getting pushed on me.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Abbott elementary.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's funny. I haven't watched it.

[David Sims]

I haven't watched it either.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's a good cast.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Right. David Alan Greer. Yeah, we love.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. In 1984, Steven Spielberg released a film called Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. It was the direct sequel, although quietly a prequel. But let's say the direct follow up.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Direct follow up to a wildly successful film called Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[David Sims]

Yes. And in between, he'd made some piece of shit called E.T. the extraterrestrial.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

So like, you know, it's an exciting moment for young Steven Spielberg.

[Griffin Newman]

I just think they're interesting. Like he's going into Raiders being like, I gotta prove myself. 1941's haunting me. People were excited to see me fall.

[David Sims]

Yes. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I need to be responsible. I need to just make a movie properly and have it go out and be an unqualified success.

[David Sims]

He was my age when this Temple of Doom came out.

[Griffin Newman]

That is so funny.

[David Sims]

He was like 38.

[Griffin Newman]

Dumb.

[David Sims]

It's pretty dumb.

[Olivia Craighead]

I watched the like HBO Spielberg documentary, which really sends home how young all those guys were when they were just like hanging out.

[David Sims]

It's why they're still hanging out.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's so. And it blows my mind that he was just a kid when he made jaws.

[David Sims]

It's just 20 something completely insane. Crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I know, it's trite. I hate that documentary because it's like. And then he won the Oscar for Schindler's List.

[Olivia Craighead]

Then he made a movie in a weird way.

[David Sims]

I want to hear about the back half of his career.

[Olivia Craighead]

I kind of want to be a 10, 10 hour thing.

[Griffin Newman]

It's one of the few things where it actually should be ten one hour installments.

[David Sims]

Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Anyway, Steven Spielberg, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. What was your point? Griffin Raiders.

[Griffin Newman]

Such an unqualified triumph that now he's back and better than ever. And I think, as we said in our episode, from that moment on, he's minted. It's not that he doesn't ever have failures again, but it's like, congratulations, we're no longer questioning you. You're Steven Spielberg. You will be Steven Spielberg for Life. Your next 20 movies could be close ups of diarrhea. You're still like in the tapestry of cinema history. And he chooses to follow up Raiders of the Lost Ark, with ET the highest grossing movie of all time, nominated for many Academy Awards, rudely perhaps not given them. And then it's interesting that he goes at a moment where he's like, could you.

[David Sims]

Anything, Anything?

[Griffin Newman]

Anything, Anything.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

There is obviously this outstanding handshake agreement part of the original deal to do Raiders, a thing that he needed at that moment in his career in 1980, but does not need in the same way now. But I think you're also starting to, at this moment, see the early stages of the bifurcation of Spielberg, because another thing that happens in between the two. Indiana Jones is Twilight's own. The movie.

[David Sims]

Sure, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Which I do think starts to affect his headspace.

[David Sims]

Yeah, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. It's just like the stakes of this are different. What am I agreeing to do? What am I doing with my power in my career? Right. The responsibility of things. And then the second thing is like, fucking Amblin's starting.

[David Sims]

Yeah, well, yeah, that's right.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

So, like, talk about it. But that's that Poltergeist comes out the.

[Griffin Newman]

Same year as ET Gremlins comes out within weeks of Temple of Doom.

[David Sims]

Yep. The two PG13 movies, you know, like, the two movies that prompted the creation of PG 13.

[Griffin Newman]

Back to the Future is the year after this. Like, there's a shift you see from this movie on where he's trying to, like, move past. Can I get over just being on wonder Spielberg that I already feel in this movie, he's maybe trying to work past.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah. This movie is scary and, like, kind of upsetting to watch.

[David Sims]

I find this movie upsetting to watch at times.

[Griffin Newman]

Olivia, what is your lifelong history with Dr. Henry Jones Jr. Dr. Henry Jones.

[Olivia Craighead]

Jr. Indiana, as you might call him.

[Griffin Newman]

They called.

[Olivia Craighead]

Definitely owned. Like, my family definitely owned the box set of all three. And I think Raiders is obviously the one we watched the most, followed by Last Crusade, because we also owned a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen on vhs. And so I liked Sean Connery.

[David Sims]

Now that's a vhs. I hope you held on to.

[Griffin Newman]

That.

[David Sims]

Yeah, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of. A lot of huge information here, and I'm pinning LXG for later. My question is, when you're watching Last Crusade, are you going, oh, my God, it's the guy.

[Olivia Craighead]

Literally. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Corner means here.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yes. And then. And then I was scary, and my mom was always like, this is the movie that made PG 13. So it's like, we got to pump it the brakes for, like, these two children.

[Griffin Newman]

But I imagine for you, the type of person you are. Yes. That, like, Sticks in your crawl immediately.

[Olivia Craighead]

Obviously that is like the trivia that is just like burrowed into my brain.

[Griffin Newman]

But also that you're like, what is it about that movie? Yes.

[Olivia Craighead]

And I think she. I remember my mom being like, a guy gets his heart ripped out in this movie. And I was like, that is scary. But I also think that Steven Spielberg was the first person I knew as a director.

[Griffin Newman]

Basically had to be for anyone born after 1975. Yes.

[Olivia Craighead]

He was the first person where I was like, that is something a person can do as a job. I think.

[David Sims]

Right. You wear.

[Olivia Craighead]

Cause I was aware of Indiana Jones. And then I think as like a 10 year old, I was vaguely aware of like Schindler's List. It was like sort of just in the air. And I was like, those are the same name. That's weird.

[Griffin Newman]

But we were. We were talking in our Raiders episode with Brian Michael Bandis, who is. Was of an age to be growing. These films were coming out in theaters. Right. He is a child. But these movies are being presented. Steven Spielberg is emerging in his lifetime. And he put forward this thing I hadn't really considered because of us growing up, being born into a world where he is a given that he was kind of the first filmmaker that was opening the book who was playing the role of. I'm a filmmaker. I'm doing behind the scenes.

[David Sims]

Let me tell you how this all works. Let me tell you what I did.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm putting out fucking CD ROMs. There was a sense of not just he is the most successful filmmaker alive, but also he is a little more open source with it.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think you can. I think that obviously inspires a lot of the Amblin stuff too. Because he is such a shepherd of other people's projects.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I also wear.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the thing. We all know what Steven Spielberg looks like on set.

[Olivia Craighead]

That is the thing. I don't think I had ever known what a director would look like, but I knew because Steven Spielberg is always yapping on TV or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

But I think about that too, where like any cartoon show I watch that would parody like the filming of a movie is doing some riff on Spielberg to a certain extent at that point. You know.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Or they're doing like some really old.

[Olivia Craighead]

Fuddy buddy guy like in the like riding pants.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. With a fucking horn. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Which we should maybe bring back.

[Griffin Newman]

But I do think there's that kind of like, you know, glasses, beard, hat, sort of doing the framing with the fingers kind of thing. Like you're. He was messaged to People as like, this is a director. This is what they do. This is what their job is. You could parody the way someone gives direction based on like clips you're seeing circulated of Steven Spielberg making movies.

[David Sims]

He definitely is the first director I'm aware of. I think of him wearing hats. He wears like a hat with a battleship's name on it. And you're like, is he the captain of the battleship? It's like, nah, he just wears hats.

[Olivia Craighead]

He kind of really looked cool in the 70s and 80s.

[David Sims]

He's cool.

[Olivia Craighead]

I mean, he is a huge nerd. He's like the biggest nerd alive. But he looked cool. He was dressing well. And also this is kind of a tangent. He really, Gabriel LaBelle really looks like him.

[Griffin Newman]

It's kind of.

[Olivia Craighead]

I was watching the like early Spielberg parts of the documentary and I was like, that does look like Gabriel.

[Griffin Newman]

I think to something. I think Gabriel Lebel is very good.

[David Sims]

Golden Globe nominee.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. This is what I was going to say. I don't think he looks like Lorne Michaels. And yet there are moments in Saturday Night, a risable movie, that I'm like, God, he looks so much like Lorne Michaels. I do think he's good at figuring out how to lock into some like cellular conjuring of people.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think he's such a fantastic actor and I don't know what is really gonna, I don't know, send him to the movie.

[David Sims]

Well, what's. Who's the next young guy in the 70s that he can play? Like, come on, give me, come on, give me another name.

[Griffin Newman]

Richard Nixon.

[David Sims]

He's just doing secret on her.

[Olivia Craighead]

I do think that it should have been the fablements people. You know, my big take on the Fabelman is that the poster ruins that movie.

[David Sims]

I think the poster, because the poster.

[Olivia Craighead]

Makes it look like, oh, this is about movies. And it's like cheesy Schloss. This is actually. That's not what this movie is really.

[David Sims]

No, it's about being fucked up when you, when Seth Rogen cucks your whole goddamn family.

[Griffin Newman]

And who amongst us can't relate to that? No, I was talking to someone about Gabriel Lebel and being like he's one away from Chadwick Boseman territory. Like he can't do another playing an iconic person at a young age thing.

[David Sims]

No, but come on, he should play.

[Olivia Craighead]

Paul Simon next because he's short.

[David Sims]

He can't do that.

[Griffin Newman]

I think he should do that.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think that would be awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the huge danger.

[David Sims]

Oh my God. The most like self important cock Sucking movie about Paul Simon. Like breaking the apartheid embargo and going to South Africa to make Graceland when we would. I know. This is what I'm saying. I'm trying to think of the worst movie possible. It's like few dared to go like hang out with Lady. Lady Smith black.

[Olivia Craighead]

They should do a movie that's about Paul Simon and Carrie Fisher being married.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, that I believe.

[David Sims]

That sounds like a fun time. Anyway, there's so many jokes I could make right now. But unfortunately now that we have said it. Gabriel LaBelle is definitely going to play Paul Simon in something. I'm sorry. It's definitely going to happen.

[Griffin Newman]

I'd like someone to write him an original role.

[David Sims]

I would too. I would truly like.

[Olivia Craighead]

Do you guys see Snack Shack?

[Griffin Newman]

I've heard wonderful things. What the hell?

[David Sims]

What?

[Olivia Craighead]

This is.

[David Sims]

What the hell is Snack Shack? You can't be making up movies right now.

[Griffin Newman]

I want to make it clear. Look, we will have a full episode discussion of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. We just haven't seen Olivia.

[Olivia Craighead]

I know.

[Griffin Newman]

We're really just the pre talk that we usually do before recording.

[Olivia Craighead]

I. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it cuz Sean Feny is always talking.

[Griffin Newman]

Love this.

[David Sims]

Okay, I'll watch it.

[Olivia Craighead]

You should watch it. Gabriel Lell is like the supporting role in it and he's really good in it. And for plot reasons he's kind of not in the second half. And the movie gets way worse when.

[David Sims]

You feel the lack of.

[Griffin Newman]

But he's like. I'm trying to think what the equivalent. He's not the booger but he's like. He's like the finesse y fast talking best friend.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah, there's like. There's like the anxious main protagonist and then there's like his cool suave.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

I've been a little out in the movie. Sure scene this year because I had to imagine why.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, wait a minute.

[David Sims]

To be clear, I didn't do anything.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I tried. I tried to help as best I could.

[Griffin Newman]

News to me.

[David Sims]

Fun fact. As I said, I wanted to bring up on this Olivia, one of the first people in my life to know that my wife was pretty.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm pretty furious about this.

[Olivia Craighead]

Fully on accident because I was. You were trying to show me a.

[David Sims]

Picture on your phone of my daughter, my extant daughter at the time.

[Olivia Craighead]

And I saw a sonogram and I said oh, pre existence sonography.

[David Sims]

Is that a sonogram? And I was like Olivia, I'm just going to put my cards on the table. It was like, February.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

My wife was like, one month fragment.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Anyway, another movie that passed me by that everyone's now talking about Christmas Eve and Miller's Point.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. People like this.

[David Sims]

I got to check this movie out again. It's some Christmas movie with Michael Cera's in it. I don't.

[Griffin Newman]

Greg Family's in it. Francesca Scorsese. Francesca Scorsese is in it.

[David Sims]

Fantastic. I have no.

[Griffin Newman]

You know who else is in it? Sawyer Spielberg, if I'm not mistaken.

[David Sims]

Sawyer Spielberg's in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

Steven Spielberg.

[Griffin Newman]

Richard Brody loves it.

[David Sims]

Kate Capshaw.

[Olivia Craighead]

Well, then Sawyer Spielberg, I think, is first build. I'm looking at it now.

[Griffin Newman]

It's got weird billing.

[Olivia Craighead]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Every time I see the trailer, it confuses.

[David Sims]

Just saw Richard at the critics circle vote. Always lovely to see Richard.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, listen. Indiana Jones at the Temple of Doom.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Olivia Craighead]

Sawyer Spielberg is kind of hot.

[Griffin Newman]

All right.

[Olivia Craighead]

Hello.

[Griffin Newman]

We've litigated.

[David Sims]

You're taken.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Olivia Craighead]

Doesn't mean I can't.

[David Sims]

A girl can dream about Sawyer.

[Olivia Craighead]

I'm not dating a Spielberg son.

[Griffin Newman]

We litigate this in other Indiana Jones episodes, but I did not see any of these movies until I was 19 or 20.

[David Sims]

You watched them all, as you said in the Raiders app, Basically, in a weekend leading up to Crystal Skull.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. As like, I gotta fix this blind spot.

[Olivia Craighead]

That's so interesting.

[David Sims]

I think I had the experience that many a young child had with Temple of Doom, where I watched Raiders of the Lost Ark. Liked it, had a great time, watched Temple of Doom, and was allowed to. Cause my parents were like, right. Indiana Jones is in that. That's for children. Right. And was a little perturbed by it. Yeah. Like. And was just kind of like, I'm not having fun. Even though there's, like, a kid in this. And, like, they're in Minecarts and Indiana Jones is here. I feel a little sad watching this. A little freaked out. And that was. And, yeah, I've seen this movie many, many, many times, because I guess it was just on TV and shit.

[Griffin Newman]

And then did Last Crusade feel like a return to triumph again?

[David Sims]

Ben, this is a freak movie. I mean, you know, did you. Did you vibe with the freakiness at all?

[Ben Hosley]

I don't think I saw this until I was an adult.

[David Sims]

So you didn't have.

[Ben Hosley]

I think this was just one. I totally missed.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, I don't know if you feel the same way, but this is the one where I'm like, I'm losing something by not having seen it as a child because I think, right, it's not.

[David Sims]

Going to upset you as much.

[Griffin Newman]

I think there's some power to this movie that I can't absorb because I didn't see it at an age where it could actually unnerve me. And I think when people talk about the legacy of this movie, that's a huge part of it.

[Olivia Craighead]

So when you watch it, are you not like, ah. Like, are you not. Do you not find it scary or upsetting?

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, here's. Here's my experience. My old roommate Spike loans me his DVD set. When I, in conversation, mentioned I've never seen any of them, right? He's like, you gotta fucking watch these before Crystal Skull comes out. I live in the bedroom of the shitty apartment. I watch Raiders. I walk out, he goes, yeah, pretty good, huh? I go, yeah, it's. It's. Yeah, it's fun. He's like, that's one of the best movies ever made. I'm like, I guess I gotta study that more to figure it out, right? Then the next night, I watch Temple of Doom. I walk out. I'm like, that sucks. Like, I was sort of like, am I crazy for having that opinion? And he makes the whole cake. No, it's weird because it's dark and it's this and it's that. But people do hate it. And I was like, oh, interesting. I had never caught wind of this even in the, like, Star Trek, you know. Oh, the, the odd number movies are bad and the evens are good. Kind of like I had never gathered that one of them was unpopular or at least more controversial, right? So then I was just like, well, I feel validated in my opinion that this is the one that sucks. And then I watch Last Crusade and I'm like, that one's my favorite because it's goofy and it's full of bits. That's where my, like, opin opinions form in that first week of flaw bits too.

[David Sims]

Brain bits. Well, for you to numb on.

[Griffin Newman]

So then I just held on to this. Like, Temple of Doom sucks. We all agree that Temple Doom sucks, right? And I feel like, especially in the last 10 or 15 years, I think there's been a rising as, like, the generation that saw it as children have taken over the discourse from the people who saw it as adults and were like, what the is this? And I feel more like an adult grump who's like, what the is this? It is the one I rewatch the most interesting because I so badly want to lock into it. And there are a couple key flaws I have with It.

[Olivia Craighead]

I don't know that it's a movie that anyone can really lock into. I know there are some people who really like it. I feel like there are a few people out here who are like, that is my favorite Indiana Jones movie, which is.

[David Sims]

It's a take.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's certainly a take. It's not one I have.

[David Sims]

No.

[Olivia Craighead]

But I do know that some people like it. But I think it's a movie that kind of doesn't want you to lock into it.

[Griffin Newman]

So here's my thing. I tend to love movies like that to a degree where our listeners think that I am just a contrarian asshole. Right. But there is something that really activates me in a sequel that feels like it's biting the hands of the people asking for it. Where any sort of like, left handed, we're zagging against your expectations. We're going darker, we're going weirder, we're withholding the thing you liked the most movies, I tend to always lean in even if I think they don't work. There is like the Joker falie a deux effect where I'm like, But what this movie's trying to do is really interesting to me. That's the part of me that's surprised that I have such a struggle with this because I am usually such an easy lay for just the weird sort of like contrarian swing of an experimental sequel in any way.

[David Sims]

But I wouldn't call this an experiment. I think this is a movie that got away from this.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think this is a movie that got away with.

[Griffin Newman]

That's how it plays to me when I watch it.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think this is a movie that makes a lot more sense when you realize that George Lucas and Spielberg were both like, having crumbling marriages.

[David Sims]

But same with, like, that's how I feel about the Abyss where I'm like, this is a divorce movie. This is a movie that's just made with a black cloud over someone's head. And that's interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

But let's state this right from the top. This is like the nadir of George Lucas's, like, personal life dissolving. Right.

[David Sims]

This is like Marcia Lucas left him for the stained glass person or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Deep in the midst. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Has that come up before?

[Griffin Newman]

Never.

[David Sims]

You know, people bring it up all the time on the Reddit. I want to say, right, we've talked about this before. How I freak out at you about that. It's mostly because we had absolutely no time.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Because someone, it was like fucking, you.

[Griffin Newman]

Know, Shannon O'Neal was.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I don't want to speak ill of the UCB network.

[Griffin Newman]

But it was time for. There was the Matrix episodes where Shannon O'Neal knocked on the door. And that's why both those episodes are two minutes long.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But there was something like that.

[David Sims]

We had no time in our little closet.

[Griffin Newman]

Am I wrong in thinking we recorded three. Three episodes in that one day?

[David Sims]

At least two. Like, we were certainly, like, sandwiching episodes together anyway.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the other thing I always mention was that and everyone.

[David Sims]

I was like, David's just, like, cutting Griffin off. And I was like, we were 40 minutes in and, like, we hadn't gotten to, like, Jabba's palace or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, you need to wear this failure like Flavor Flav. Where's the clock? But that's what Alec Baldwin says in Aloha.

[David Sims]

That sounds like a terrible line.

[Griffin Newman]

I've been trying to work it back into the vernacular of the podcast. Blank check 10. A Decade of Dreams. Let's remember all the great moments.

[David Sims]

Jesus Christ.

[Olivia Craighead]

I forgot you guys did Cameron Crow.

[David Sims]

Yeah, sure did. That's why it's important.

[Griffin Newman]

That's why I need to point back at the wall, Olivia, and go, remember when Alec Baldwin says, you wear this, like, flute flavors and clock. The. The point is. What was my point? Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

George Lucas.

[Griffin Newman]

George Lucas is in a dark as hell place.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But here is a timeline that everyone gets wrong that I just want to remind people of.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Steven Spielberg dates Amy Irming for most of the show. On and off. Friend of the show. And what I am saying is just public record. This is not any inside information. I've had no conversations with her about that.

[David Sims]

No, we did not grill Amy Irving about this.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just dating numbers. Steven Spielberg, Amy Irving date on and off for most of the 70s. Right. Then there's like a more serious breakup in 1979. Yes.

[David Sims]

Big breakup.

[Griffin Newman]

Then in 1983, he films a movie called Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, starring Kate Capshaw as the female lead, a woman who we all now know is Steven Spielberg's longtime wife.

[David Sims]

They've been married for 30 plus years.

[Griffin Newman]

And people are like, oh, that's where they met and they fell in love. Do you know what happens in 1985?

[Olivia Craighead]

He marries Amy.

[Griffin Newman]

The year after, impregnates her.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And as Amy Irving told us, and I forget if we put it on Mike, Barbra Streisand took full credit.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Barbra Streisand takes credit that.

[Olivia Craighead]

For getting them back together and for.

[David Sims]

Getting her knocked up.

[Griffin Newman]

Specifically said, you're going to get pregnant yes.

[David Sims]

Like, truly, Barbra Streisand was like, I willed this into existence. Was like, no, you didn't.

[Griffin Newman]

We did cut one thing out of that episode that will tell you off because you deserve to hear, yes, it was incredible. But yes, Mary Temple of doom, released in 84. Amy Irving, marriage, 85. Their son, I think, is born later that year in 85 or 86.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

And then they don't divorce until 89.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Olivia Craighead]

But then when does he marry Keith?

[David Sims]

1991.

[Olivia Craighead]

Okay.

[David Sims]

But it's a little weird because he did meet her making this movie. So. Yeah. I don't know.

[Olivia Craighead]

One of my favorite throwaway 30 rock jokes is when Kenneth tells Tracy, steven Spielberg wants you to be in his next movie. And Tracy says, kate Capshaw's husband.

[Griffin Newman]

Incredible. I think I've.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's so stupid.

[Griffin Newman]

I think I've talked about this before, but my beloved departed IMDb message boards. What used to be the most unhinged place on the Internet, Right. Where every single project or person who had any IMDb page had their own designated IMDb message board. Any, like, random PA had their own designated message board. And there was one guy who kept posting in the Kate Capshaw message boards. I got this script that I really think has a perfect part for Kate. Does anyone know how to get through to Kate? I know she's been retired from acting. She doesn't have representation anymore. Is there any way to get through to Kate? And this guy would post this, like once every six months and people would go, we fucking get it, man. You're trying to get Steven Spielberg to read your script.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And you go, I am not Kate always loved Kate as an actor. Does anyone know if maybe because she doesn't have representation, who I contact my.

[David Sims]

Husband, her home address might be. Or I could drop it off maybe.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. What does her husband do? Is he home a lot? Could I hand the script off to him? All I'm saying is it's more the.

[David Sims]

Lucas divorce movie than it is the Spielberg divorce movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it's not the Spielberg divorce movie because everyone knows, oh, he was with Amy Irving and then he was with Kate Capshaw. People assume his marriage to Amy Irving is falling apart. And out of the Phoenix comes Kay Capshaw, when in fact the.

[Olivia Craighead]

The, like, timeline of that whole thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Bizarre. Yeah, but it's like he's coming off of several years of being ostensibly single.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He meets her, then he gets back together with his old on and off girlfriend, has a child, divorces, gets together with Kate, capture Hollywood so messy. Whatever's going on with Steven Spielberg at this time is not divorce shit. I just think that needs to be cleanly stated.

[David Sims]

Let's open the dossier to, to just get more into this. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

David. February time for February movie preview. Okay. And I gotta say, it's a pretty interesting February we have coming up.

[David Sims]

Yeah, what do we got?

[Griffin Newman]

The Monkey actually called the Monkey. New film from Oz Perkins, whose Long Legs I loved last year starring another one of her friends, past and future guest Tatiana Maslany.

[David Sims]

That's right. And looks very, very funny and cool and scary. Also very intrigued by this Martin Campbell action or cleaner with Daisy Ridley starring.

[Griffin Newman]

Daisy Ridley, someone I've always had very, very calm opinions about on this podcast. I'm very excited for. It feels like she's kind of ramping up her movie career again.

[David Sims]

Here's the thing. Oh, and then there's the day the Earth blew up.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say, if that weren't enough, February ending with the first original feature length animated Looney Tunes movie ever that I have heard is excellent.

[David Sims]

And here's the thing, the day the.

[Griffin Newman]

Earliest blew up in a Looney Tunes movie.

[David Sims]

What's awesome about all this is that there's lots of interesting, different kinds of movies in theaters that you go see.

[Griffin Newman]

And with Regal Unlimited, the whole point is you sign up and seeing three, four, five, six of those movies is easy and affordable.

[David Sims]

And I find that one, you know, you have the Regal Unlimited, right? You know, sort of the option of basically like, let me pop over my theater, I have three hours.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what's nice.

[David Sims]

Yeah, do it more.

[Griffin Newman]

You do it more.

[David Sims]

Go see the movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Go see the movies.

[David Sims]

Sign up now in the Regal app.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Or at the link in the description in our show notes and use code blank check to get 20% off your three month subscription. And then you're going to be in the Crown Club. You're going to get rewards, you're going.

[Griffin Newman]

To build up points and get free popcorn. Popcorns and sodas.

[David Sims]

25% off candy on Tuesdays, 50 off popcorn. Discounted ticket.

[Griffin Newman]

Go to the Regal Crown Club website. And as I said, it's a little deep. It's a little buried in here. There is a section where you can redeem your points for old promotional movie memorabilia like red one socks.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Follow the link in the show notes, go to the Regal app, click on the unlimited banner and then follow the instructions to sign up and enter promo code blank check when prompted to receive your discount. And look, I'm just going to say it again, David. Signing up for Regal Unlimited or maybe gifting a membership to a moviegoer in your life.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Great way to support the show. This is a dream advertiser, a dream partner for us. We want to keep this going. We think it could benefit everybody, especially the movies.

[David Sims]

Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[Griffin Newman]

Successful, perfect movie.

[Olivia Craighead]

Big hit.

[David Sims]

And because of its success, really never any doubt that it would have a sequel. And Lucas had always envisioned sequels just like those Old Republic serials that always had sequels.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, and as we discussed when Lucas presented this idea to Spielberg, I got an idea. I'd love for you to direct it. There's a handshake agreement of. But if you're doing this, you gotta make three of them. I want this to be an ongoing.

[David Sims]

Series, but it is a handshake deal.

[Griffin Newman]

He has contracts, deals with other people. Paramount is committed to three. I think Ford's committed to three. Is that correct? Yes, but Spielberg's just a handshake.

[David Sims]

But Spielberg also says that George had said like, well, I have ideas for other movies. And then when George was like, it's time for another movie, he didn't have any ideas for any other movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Weird.

[David Sims]

George Lucas starts pitching ideas.

[Griffin Newman]

So George Lucas told people publicly that he had sketched it all out big.

[David Sims]

Long it all the pod racing was always there.

[Griffin Newman]

This just doesn't sound like my man.

[David Sims]

He pitches an idea centered around a haunted castle in Scotland.

[Olivia Craighead]

I mean, I like that sounds kind of fun.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that sounds cool.

[David Sims]

But Spielberg sounds.

[Olivia Craighead]

Scotland sounds like it would be less racist.

[David Sims]

It we're racist in a fun way.

[Olivia Craighead]

Racist against Scottish.

[Griffin Newman]

People could all laugh at that.

[Olivia Craighead]

The accents would be, like, funny.

[Griffin Newman]

No one ever gets offended by Shrek. Exactly. Has has a single complained about the representation in Shrek.

[Olivia Craighead]

We should do a Shrek Indiana Jones crossover. Indiana Jones.

[David Sims]

That sounds like the kind of poisonous that Hollywood would love to make.

[Griffin Newman]

So Spielberg's like Deadline said, Olivia has just been placed. Isn't Shrek dreamworks in charge of Paramount Picture?

[David Sims]

Well, now, yeah, but now DreamWorks is owned by Universal.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, you're right. It's Universal.

[David Sims]

Anyway, look, Spielberg had just worked on Poltergeist. He doesn't want to do a ghost story, so.

[Griffin Newman]

No, sure.

[David Sims]

Okay. So instead, George throws the ideas to Willard. How do you say his name? Hook. Hook. And Gloria Katz, who obviously wrote American Graffiti with him and go on to make Howard.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And I think.

[David Sims]

And I think they'd done a little work on Star Wars.

[Griffin Newman]

They'd absolutely done work on Star Wars. They were sort of his go to Married couple, writer team, friends, and they.

[David Sims]

Pitch an idea called Indiana Jones and the Temple of death, submitting a 20 page story treatment that was set in India. They were very interested in Indian culture. They traveled there, they were collecting Indian art. And they were also really looking at the movie Gunga Dinner, which of course is a really sensitive and textured portrayal of life in India, but I guess like that kind of an adventure story. Right. And, you know, the Himalayas or something.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, let me say Willie and Gloria. I think their main role in the Lucasfilm ecosystem for many years was they were the people who understood characters and how human beings talked and were the ones who put some sort of reasonable semblance of recognizable human emotion into his movies.

[Olivia Craighead]

Interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

The times they were credited versus the times they were not. I think they were always that sort of counterpart for them to be the primary writers on this. I don't think they were usually the ones who were figuring out story beats or the world building or all of that. Right. Like, Lawrence Kasdan was pretty unique in having a mind for both of those things. I think Kasdan, for him was kind of one of those hires of like, you handle this shit and then I'll put the Lucas on top of it.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Or I give you the Lucas Dilf and you write within that space.

[Olivia Craighead]

Didn't he offer it to Kasdan first?

[David Sims]

Kasdan was, I think we'll get to it, but Kasdan was just not interested. And I think they also, like, said, like, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Death is set in India. And Kasdan was immediately turned off. Right, but we'll talk about that.

[Griffin Newman]

But Kasdan's career is also like, he's getting hot.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, he's getting hot.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's just I rewatching it again when the opening credits come up, I was just like, oh, right. It's just the two of them credited as the writers. There are other people credited for story, but it's a little surprising that it's just the two of them.

[David Sims]

So they start to kind of be like, well, we could do all the stuff we wanted to do before. Steve, didn't you always want to, like, do a musical sequence? We could do like a Busby Berkeley musical. George, didn't you want Indy to, like, wear a suit and go to a nightclub and kind of be like a sexy guy?

[Griffin Newman]

Like be James Bond?

[David Sims]

Right. We can do that. And, like. Right. Steve, didn't you always want to do a James Bond movie? We can like kind of do a James Bond thing. Where we start in another mission before we start our main mission.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like an appetizer sampler platter of a movie.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Olivia Craighead]

When this movie starts, which is when all of that stuff happens, I'm kind of on board.

[David Sims]

You're on board.

[Olivia Craighead]

The first is like 10 minutes. I'm like, awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

The first 20 minutes, I would say. Or at least 15. I love. And every time I'm like, am I gonna 100% lock in? And then it falls off for me. But beyond that, when I look back at it, I'm like, everything I like in the first 15 minutes is not really a good Indiana Jones movie.

[Olivia Craighead]

No. I just starred as kind of. It's just well made, good movie.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a good musical number and then a great James Bond sequence.

[Olivia Craighead]

Love the musical number. I think it's so fun. I think it's so well directed. I think it's crazy that it took him so long to make a musical.

[David Sims]

It is crazy. He should have made one per decade. Like, he really should have kept. Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

I mean, he clearly wanted or like loves the form. Like, is good at it.

[David Sims]

I mean, look, the whole.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's kind of the peak of Kate Capshaw's performance.

[David Sims]

It is. It's the best.

[Griffin Newman]

She's.

[David Sims]

I mean, it's probably why she was cast because she's good at that shit. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But I'd also argue it's a. Cause it starts so hot. And then the second she isn't singing, I'm like, what the fuck did she start singing again?

[Olivia Craighead]

Where he leaves in this bit where she sort of trips going up the platform too. That I think is so charming. Charming and fun. And then Indiana Jones throws a bunch of flaming ducks at a guy on the spear.

[Griffin Newman]

I like all of that.

[Olivia Craighead]

All of that stuff is really good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

The whole thing with Temple of Doom, my entire take is you are in the hands of a master pretty much the whole time. That's why it's very watchable. Like his grasp of everything at this point is total. Stevie Strong is like a 10 out of 10 action filmmaker and he's making a very fast paced action movie. And whenever that's happening, you're pretty. It's good.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yes. And then people will talk and there's a plot and it kind of huge.

[David Sims]

Mistakes on that scene.

[Olivia Craighead]

Here's the thing that like is weird to me from the jump, from the beginning is that in that first scene in the restaurant, he's exchanging that like monkey figurine thing for a diamond, which doesn't make sense with who we know Indiana.

[David Sims]

He would be way more interested in the fucking monkey figure.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah. He would want to take that to a museum. Like, the idea that, like, we know this guy to be professor by day and, like, adventurer by other day is completely kind of thrown away in this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree. I think the characterization thing is totally wrong. Well, the sort of.

[David Sims]

The argument of, like, oh, maybe he's learning how to be indie, but they don't have to.

[Olivia Craighead]

How many years Raiders is this supposed to be?

[David Sims]

It's a good question. I guess it's like six or seven, right? Like, not many.

[Griffin Newman]

There is a Chiron, is there not?

[David Sims]

I mean, it's 1935. I'm just trying to remember when Raiders takes place.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, 42.

[David Sims]

1936. Okay. So, yeah, me. It's just right before Raiders.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

But. But even still, I. I remember watching it when the year comes up and going like, wait a second, doing the math, being like, this is a prequel. And then I go, oh, so this is gonna be that story. This is how Indiana Jones became Indiana Jones.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That is not a movie they're interested in making. I even was like, oh, the reason Short Round is in this movie is because Short Round's gonna experience a tragic death. This is gonna be something that forms him. We're seeing the sidekick that he lost before we met him previously. No incidental. By all accounts, the only reason this is a prequel, not a sequel, is that Spielberg didn't wanna do Nazis.

[David Sims]

He didn't wanna do Nazis. And I guess. Well, let me keep going on this, okay?

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

George Lucas has already made Empire Strikes Back, so he's like, we should do what I did there. Again, where this is a darker movie, it's spookier. Let's do this death cult thing, right? Let's just lean into the darkness, and.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna put the world's biggest pin in that.

[David Sims]

Famously, the darker tone of Temple of Doom is ascribed to a few things. One, George Lucas divorce from Marcia Lucas. Two, Steven Spielberg's breakup with On Again, Off Again beau. Amy Irving, friend of the show, past guest, future guest. Three, and JJ was really hammering this. As you said, Twilight's on the movie. What a horrible experience Spielberg had being associated with that, the death of Vic Morrow and all that stuff. It's not like Spielberg was present for the death of Vic Morrow, but nonetheless, his name's on the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, basically willed that movie into being and then had to make a very haunted, terrible segment afterwards to complete his contractual obligations. But I think was just like, Deeply wounded by the entire Lucas and Spielberg.

[David Sims]

Candidly say afterwards, like, we were in bad moods. We look back at the movie and we're like, maybe we took this to a bit of a dark extreme. Like, we were, you know, kind of in a whatever kind of, you know, Paul had been cast over things.

[Griffin Newman]

But I agree with JJ's assessment that I do think the core darkness from Spielberg's end is coming from the shadow of Twilight Zone, the movie, Spielberg's personal.

[David Sims]

Life, another shadow he's dealing with, which is the first time he's making a sequel. And so you've got all the pressures of making a sequel to a beloved gigantic hit. And it's not like Star wars, where there's like, you know, like, yeah, we're gonna keep going. Like, what are midichlorians? No one's told me yet. Can someone tell me, does anyone know Indiana Jones? It's like, yes, you could make more, but the movie doesn't end with, like, then what happens?

[Griffin Newman]

So can I take my giant pen out here? Cause you've set this up now. I get what Lucas is saying, especially because Empire Strikes Back is a triumph, even if at the time, it was received with a little bit of confusion. Not as extreme as Temple of Doom, but people were like, what's this? Why is it such a bummer? Why is it in a cliffhanger? Whatever. Right? I get him being like, storytelling rules. Act two needs to be the dip, so there's a place for the heroes to come back and recover. I think that's fundamentally wrong for Indiana Jones, which is designed to be, like, serialized standalone adventures. It is not about character growth. That makes sense if you're making a trilogy of stories that are telling one greater saga.

[David Sims]

I agree. Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Which by design, is not what he's trying to do. So I'm like, you can't do the middle, darker entry when you're like, all of these are just whatever. They're adventures. I think the point becomes even less powerful when you're making it a prequel. So you're like, oh, it's the mid dark chapter before his, like, ultimate, you know, victory at the end. And I'm like, no, you're putting his darker stuff at the beginning. Which, if you're gonna do that, then it's intentionally. I think you gotta do the, like, sort of Casino Royale. What made him shit. Which this movie is not doing at all.

[Olivia Craighead]

Completely uninterested.

[Griffin Newman]

Last Crusade does a better job of 20 minutes of that at the beginning, which is one of my favorite sequences.

[David Sims]

That's A great sequence.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. But I'm like, you could start this from the place of, like, Indiana Jones is an adult man. But here's how the Persona grew. Right. He had this sidekick. He lost, like, anytime the first time I'm watching this film, it sets up an element that I know isn't present Raiders. I'm like, there's going to be some narrative beat to explain what changed him.

[Olivia Craighead]

No. There's no payoff from the fact that it's a prequel.

[Griffin Newman]

It gains nothing from complete.

[Olivia Craighead]

You could just.

[David Sims]

You could say that it was relationships he makes.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's truly avoiding two things. I think they were like, a, don't want to make another Nazi movie. And B, doing another movie after Raiders with a different female lead.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Will piss people off because they like Marian and we don't want to make a movie of him in a serious relationship. So. Said it earlier.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Which doesn't help them because now we're gonna sit here going, who the is this and why isn't she Marion? Remember how we all like how we.

[Olivia Craighead]

Love that, like, cool woman who was.

[Griffin Newman]

Indiana Jones movies who wasn't like, stop the movie.

[David Sims]

Kate Capshop made a movie called A Little Sex.

[Olivia Craighead]

Oh, wait a second. I'm interested.

[David Sims]

This movie has a little.

[Griffin Newman]

Why stop there?

[Olivia Craighead]

That's better than nothing.

[David Sims]

A Bruce Paltrow movie, of course. Okay. And was not interested in making a franchise, you know, sequel movie or whatever. But then she auditioned and she met this Steven Spielberg guy who's kind of charmed by him. Anyway. They end up getting married and all that shit. You know what I mean?

[Griffin Newman]

What?

[David Sims]

It's just sort of like, I feel like Spielberg trying to, like, rationalize what he was doing and the kind of acting he was looking for. I'm just kind of like, out of her. You can't talk about how your wife is kind of bad in this movie.

[Olivia Craighead]

No.

[David Sims]

You know, so it's like, I'm never gonna get a quote from Spielberg about Kate Capshaw and Indiana Jones in the Temple of Dune.

[Olivia Craighead]

I feel like if you were out, if you were, like, friends with Kate Capshaw and it came up, she would be like.

[Griffin Newman]

I think so.

[Olivia Craighead]

This is not.

[David Sims]

I think she would.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I think she would. Yeah.

[David Sims]

She would be like, huh? What happened to my career? I guess Fucking. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think she had good performances afterwards.

[David Sims]

That's what I'm saying.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But. And nonetheless, it's kind of like what defines kid capture.

[Olivia Craighead]

Here's my other thing is that I think that is not a well written role.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you. Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah. She does not have much to work with.

[Olivia Craighead]

It is not. She doesn't have much to work with, and she doesn't do a great job of pulling out what they're like. My thing is that if this were Goldie Hawn, we would.

[David Sims]

I mean, I've been sitting on this for two weeks.

[Olivia Craighead]

If this were Goldie Han or if it were a couple years later and it was Meg Ryan, we would all be. It would be kind of a different.

[Griffin Newman]

But Goldie Hawn was my exact one that I've been doing.

[Olivia Craighead]

It is so obviously supposed to be Goldie Han to me.

[Griffin Newman]

He's in her first movie. We do the Sugar Land episode where, like, it's kind of weird. He never worked with her ever again.

[David Sims]

I mean, she's too famous, I guess. Indiana Jones, I don't know.

[Olivia Craighead]

The whole time, I'm just like, sequels.

[David Sims]

Are not cool back then.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but. But. But it's Indiana Jones. Star wars has destigmatized sequels a little bit, right? And what they're gonna get at for the third movie is, hey, Two Legends on the poster.

[David Sims]

They get to that.

[Griffin Newman]

They do. They should have gotten there on this one.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think if. I think if it's Goldie Hawn, the role probably gets beefed up. And she is so naturally funny that it, like, the whole thing with, like, oh, the elephant is, like, playing with her hair. All the physical comedy, all of that stuff would be so much better just due to the fact that it is, like, one of the most naturally gifted ever. I agree with.

[Griffin Newman]

She's the exact name I landed on. And I'm like, I still think this character is misconceived.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I think she's misconceived as a character, but also misconceived in relation to the movie in terms of what makes an Indiana Jones movie work. She's playing against a lot of what they need to motor this film across her existence. Willie Scott as a character, the whole.

[Olivia Craighead]

Time, she is just there to kind of get in the way, which is not a good character.

[David Sims]

She's a video game character. Keeps, like, walking in front of your gun. The game is like, protect Willie Scott. You're like, well, she stopped walking in front of you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's like, oh. It's like she can't help them because she's, like, scared of slimy stuff. And it's like, that is not.

[Griffin Newman]

This, like, lives in my head forever. But Ben Edlund would always talk about this when we were working on the Tick because he was trying to make A TV series with a refusal of the call arc. And he was like, it's always the struggle of not creating characters who exist to try to stop the show from happening.

[David Sims]

Right. Because then you're gonna hate them.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the thing.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like the whole audience, there's a narrative purpose for that tension. The audience is like, fuck this guy. Why is she being such a bummer? And Willie Scott is like a perfect example of a character who's like, I hate this. Stop this. Let me out of the movie.

[Olivia Craighead]

And I think it's like, I get that you have Marian in the first movie and she's cool and she can do her own thing and she's brunette. And so the next one, you're like, how do we make it? What if there was a difference? What if she was blonde and couldn't do anything?

[Griffin Newman]

It's the classic sequel thing of we should do the opposite of what we did last year.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's like, maybe we should find like a redhead with a skill like that is maybe the middle ground.

[Griffin Newman]

There are ways to go.

[David Sims]

Right? Do the witcher thing. Witcher 3, of course. The greatest video game of all time. All the ladies are confident. They're just different. Brunette, black hair. They're so different.

[Griffin Newman]

But look, we talk about this in the Raiders episode. It becomes clearer then that they're like, we had lightning in a bottle with Marian. No one wants to see him fall in love with anyone else. Right. So the third movie makes the woman like a fake out and makes it a two hander with his dad.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And then the fourth movie makes a two hander with his son and brings Marian back. And then the fifth movie, it's all on your screen.

[Olivia Craighead]

I have not seen. I have not dialed it in.

[David Sims]

You want to dial in? Should I get that rotary phone?

[Griffin Newman]

That's why you're the best, Olivia. Cuz you. You like to turn the titles into verbs.

[David Sims]

Do you agree post conclave? Because this was a Olivia thing that. That Tucci has the touch.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Olivia Craighead]

I'm glad we're talking about this. I do think that conclave brought the Tucci touch back.

[David Sims]

It was the first time in a.

[Olivia Craighead]

While I felt rushing against my shoulder.

[David Sims]

I was like, hello, who's touching me? Tucci.

[Olivia Craighead]

I'm.

[Griffin Newman]

I hope it's a tickle. It's a tickle of the Tucci.

[Olivia Craighead]

I hope moving forward that he feels that I'm concerned because he's not getting a lot of like, awards.

[David Sims]

He's not getting like, noms.

[Griffin Newman]

But can I say this? I Think that might be a good thing?

[David Sims]

Sure. Get him.

[Olivia Craighead]

Get him hungry for it.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I think if there. There is.

[David Sims]

Unless he wants a James Beard award for making spaghetti all the time, all sexy.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, he does clearly want one of those.

[David Sims]

I think he does.

[Griffin Newman]

Rolling up the sleeves, getting his hands all flowery. I think there is an understandable impulse to over praise and laud him for giving us a little bit of the magic back. And I was like, is he gonna fucking, like, have too good of an Oscar season? Where then he's happy just being at this level.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Which I'm like, conclave's not your best work, my man, but you're getting back in the spirit.

[Olivia Craighead]

But he really has, like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he's doing what you like.

[David Sims]

And he used to give us one of those a year.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally.

[David Sims]

And now it's like the first in kind of three or four. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And I want to make him work a little harder to win his eventual Oscar.

[David Sims]

Yeah, exactly. He does need one.

[Griffin Newman]

He does. He should have won for Spotlight. Yes.

[David Sims]

I mean, he's incredible in Spotlight, one.

[Olivia Craighead]

Of the great movies.

[David Sims]

He's incredible. And I mean, I don't know. It's a good question. What do I give. Do I give Tucci a win? Julia, he's amazing.

[Griffin Newman]

I was going back through my records, and I'm like, in retrospect, I give Tucci the win for the spotlight year. A year where on Mic, I, of course, gave supporting actor to Michael Shannon for the night before.

[Olivia Craighead]

That's crazy. He is so good in Spotlight. He's also incredible in the Devil Wears Prada.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I really need to kind of win that here as well.

[Olivia Craighead]

And that's the true supporting character. When is this episode coming out?

[David Sims]

That's just such a good question.

[Griffin Newman]

March. April.

[David Sims]

Kind of question that I can answer by opening the spreadsheet.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think probably by the time. March 2, by the time this comes out, there will have been a ton of category fraud at the Oscars, which usually I'm not upset about, but this.

[David Sims]

Year, you're basically saying Kieran Culkin will have won an Oscar.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think Kieran Culkin will have won an Oscar. I think it's crazy that Zoe Saldana is being pitched as a supporting actress when she is the lead of that movie.

[David Sims]

She is. That movie didn't work for me. I sort of know what they're saying with, like, no, Emilia Perez is the. Is the main character.

[Griffin Newman]

Certainly the title.

[David Sims]

She's the title. And, yes, Zoe Saldan is all over the movie, but she's kind of the narrator. She's. Zoe Saldana is the best performance in that movie.

[Olivia Craighead]

She's really good.

[David Sims]

Because she's the only thing where I'm like. Because me watching that movie, I'm like, what the fuck is going on here, guys? And she's the only one who's really.

[Griffin Newman]

Good impression of you watching that movie. You just transported to a different place.

[David Sims]

I kind of. She's kind of making me buy it sometimes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I still haven't watched it.

[David Sims]

Oh, you need to watch it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. But here's the thing I think back on. I'm like, you pull up the 1995 Academy Award nominations, and you're like, morgan Freeman for best Actor. We used to be a proper country. The bullshit they'd be pulling today to go like, oh, Shawshank is one lead, one supporting.

[David Sims]

They would pull that.

[Olivia Craighead]

So I just.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're like, that man ended up where he belonged. A deserved nomination. No category fraud.

[David Sims]

What were you gonna say?

[Olivia Craighead]

I just think the Academy needs to open their third eye and realize that sometimes a movie is about two men, and they can both be the lead.

[Griffin Newman]

Impossible.

[Olivia Craighead]

Or perhaps even two women or.

[David Sims]

Oh, well, that's crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that's my.

[Olivia Craighead]

I know.

[David Sims]

That kind of. That kind of pushing it too far. Sexual nonsense doesn't happen in our Hollywood movies. Two women, Emilia Perez and lawyer. I forget her name. Lawyer person.

[Olivia Craighead]

I don't. I watched the movie, like, three days ago, and I don't remember her name.

[David Sims]

Anyway, it's just one of those movies where I'm like, I think this movie is taking itself deeply seriously.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's. It's a French guy. Like, I mean, how.

[David Sims]

How. How better to put it?

[Olivia Craighead]

I. I hate to be anti French, but whenever they make a movie that, like, makes its way over here.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's like, like, what is.

[David Sims]

What are you guys doing over there?

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

If Indiana Jones went to France and did some French and the movie was making fun of French people.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

We'd all be hooting and hollering if.

[David Sims]

It was like, okay, wait, he's serving them snails and was like, french people are weird.

[Griffin Newman]

This movie would have aged perfectly, kid.

[David Sims]

Captain's going like frog's legs.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, that's good. If Catherine Deneuve is playing Willie Scott.

[Olivia Craighead]

And there's so much old shit in France.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Okay. I mean, you guys are so desperate for Indiana Jones to go to a castle. I mean, Harrison Ford's a 84 or whatever.

[Olivia Craighead]

I am actually desperate for. As I was watching this movie, I was like, I could just watch a movie that's like a guy going on an adventure every year and that sort of thing.

[David Sims]

We don't get enough of it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

I mean, obviously, obviously there's, like, James Bond.

[David Sims]

That doesn't count because James Bond, now, it's like he's haunted by trauma and women and, like, he has to wear the right watch and drive a Jaguar.

[Olivia Craighead]

I am not, like, anti franchise, but I want a new one. I want, like, a new character.

[David Sims]

Or I just want the Brendan Fraser mummy where they're just like, we're kind of doing Indiana Jones and we mix it with a couple other things and enjoy it. I'm like, I will. Thank you very much.

[Griffin Newman]

But isn't the other problem here that, like, these movies need to justify. They won't make these movies unless they think they can be billion dollar movies, which means they need to cost $300 million, which means they need to be 10 things.

[David Sims]

This is part of the problem. But it's like, why? Okay, you know, there's that tweet about how, like, there's the Marvel movies that are fun to take drugs and watch, and then there's the baseball cap ones. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

The baseball cap ones.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Like, where? And it's just a picture of Chris Evans in a baseball cap where you're like, why is, like, half this movie just, like, people in clothes? Like, isn't this supposed to be about superheroes?

[Olivia Craighead]

Are those the ones where they're like, this is the Parallax view.

[David Sims]

Yeah, you know, exactly. Like, it's kind of inspired by a 70s conspiracy thriller. It looks like a fucking Epson commercial, but okay. And like, that's like, why is the Tom Cruise mummy? It's like, it's, like, about a guy in pants and a shirt.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

Like, why is it not about, you know, why. Why didn't you look at the Brendan Fraser mummy and go like, yeah, people like throwbacks.

[Griffin Newman]

Whatever, Whatever.

[David Sims]

I'm sure. I'm sure. Brent the Mummy Returns once again has been announced by the time. Right? Like that. That's in the works.

[Griffin Newman]

I keep hearing things.

[David Sims]

Yeah, come on.

[Griffin Newman]

It feels obvious, but no Willie Scott conversation. Right. I agree. It's like the idea is wrong. For what kind of. How do we make this different from Marion? It works against the movie. In trying to solve it, my mind, I was like, the only way this works is if it's like, Goldie Hawn is the only name that comes to mind who could have done this? But someone who has a preexisting comedic person.

[David Sims]

What about Shelley Long?

[Olivia Craighead]

I think that would maybe Work.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I think it could.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe.

[David Sims]

I'm trying to think about people at that moment.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, here's. Here's my argument. Okay. Like, Shelley Long, I think, could have performed it well, but would still struggle to overcome some of the characterization. Right.

[David Sims]

What about Dana Wheeler? Nicholson, Fletch?

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, yeah, I like that.

[Griffin Newman]

My point is.

[Ben Hosley]

But I'm biased.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

This being post Private Benjamin. Right. If the poster is, hey, it's Indiana Jones and Goldie Hawn, and Goldie Hawn's holding up, like, a broken high heel, and she's got, like, a sideways smirk, the audience goes, I get it. I know what I'm paying to see. I know what this is. I can play it out my mind. Here's the funny scenario, right. Goldie probably plays it as well as anyone could and also probably has enough clout to be able to, like, push back and make, like, story contributions, whatever, which Shelley Long would not have. But also just puts the audience at ease of. I get it. It's a Goldie Hawn type. That's the version of it that probably works the best.

[David Sims]

Sure. But you're talking about something that. My guess is Goldie Hawn's off making Swing Shift, and she's like, no, I am Goldie Hawn, the entire brand, and I will not be some lady who's hanging out with me.

[Griffin Newman]

It kind of has to be someone who is as iconic as Harrison Ford.

[David Sims]

Kate Capshaw. What do you think of it?

[Olivia Craighead]

And then she got a beautiful, long marriage out of it seven years later.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, here's the other thing. As you said, that, like.

[David Sims]

And apparently one of their kids just dump. I don't want to dox your boyfriend, but he's out of here.

[Griffin Newman]

Spielberg seems loath to say anything critical about her performance in the press, which I get.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah, of course I would be. Here's the thing. If I'm Kate Capshaw, I would be like, I can say I'm bad in this movie. My husband, who directed me in this movie, is not allowed to say that.

[Griffin Newman]

But there's this other aspect to it, which is just. And, like, Brian was talking about this in our Raiders episode. When you watch the behind the scenes of the movie, and he's like, come on, do the scene with the bugs. Come on. And he's, like, being flirty and, like, making bargains with her.

[David Sims]

But they can't be like, this is the movie where we met and fell in love, because it's kind of not.

[Griffin Newman]

There's that part of it. Even if no lines are crossed on set in 1983. Right. It is clear that the two of them have, like, a flirtation with each other that is getting in the way of perhaps the most disciplined processing of work. Like, I think he is directing her differently than he has directed any other actor he has ever worked with.

[Olivia Craighead]

Well, okay. Yes. Because the thing about him is that there aren't really, like, bad performances in Steven Spielberg movies, so that this kind of sticks out.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Like, it's like Justin Chatwin in War of the Worlds. Right. It rarely happens.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's like Julia Robertson Hook, which is a notorious. Like, both of them now go like, we were going through our own shit and that was a bad deal.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

What do you think of Julia Robertson Hook?

[Olivia Craighead]

I mean, I was a child, so I kind of liked what was going on there. I haven't really watched as an adult.

[Griffin Newman]

But Olivia on set, they called her Tinker Hell.

[Olivia Craighead]

Well, here's.

[David Sims]

Well, that's just too easy a joke. So they had to be, I think.

[Olivia Craighead]

Julia Roberts in the 90s seems like she had a lot of stuff going on.

[David Sims]

She had so much. It's so crazy how she had so much stuff going on. And then she, like, monastically swore off of stuff. Like, you know, she was like, I'm done with stuff going on with you.

[Griffin Newman]

She's basically been stuff free for stuff 25 years.

[David Sims]

She'll show up and things, and you're like, hey, it's Julie.

[Olivia Craighead]

And she lives, like, a very chill.

[Griffin Newman]

Life, like, but also, like, you know, she falls in love with a married cinematographer on the set of a movie.

[Olivia Craighead]

Breaks up that marriage, end of her.

[Griffin Newman]

Mess, marries him, has twins. That didn't really constitute stuff. Like, at the time, that was a processed assessment.

[Olivia Craighead]

Well, she wore that bitchy T shirt. This kind of stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

It was treated a little bit as, like, thank God Julia finally found love.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Everyone's just kind of happy for her.

[Griffin Newman]

I do think there's a rewriting of the Julia narrative where people are like, in 1990s, she becomes a movie star and remained a movie star. And it's like, there are five years of. People were like, shut the fuck up.

[David Sims]

Go to jail.

[Griffin Newman]

Were so tired of her in the press, they were tired of the movies. They were tired of her whole thing. And then she just, like, rebounded so hard. 97 to 2001.

[David Sims]

It's one of the great runs.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Anyway, she's not in this movie. Katie Kwan is in this movie. Of course he was. His brother auditioned.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And he tagged along. Kathleen Kennedy was like, I like that kid. Gets him in front of Steven Spielberg. He dresses up, right? Like, he was, like, in a little suit for this meeting. And they were like. Steven's like, please come back looking more casual. Like, this is not what we were thinking. Comes back as more of a kid. And Steven Spielberg's like, you got the part.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, he is.

[Olivia Craighead]

He's really good.

[Griffin Newman]

So precious.

[Olivia Craighead]

He's so cute. I also think. Here's my other. My other. So not to shit on Kate Cupshot. So much to shit on Willie Scott, actually.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah, that's. I want to make it clear. Willie Scott's a problem.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And Kate Capshaw is only partially responsible.

[Olivia Craighead]

Okay, here's my. With the three of them. Harrison Ford has so much more chemistry with KE Hue Kwon than he does with Kate Capshaw. And so, like, this is the first. I want to see just them two for the movie.

[David Sims]

I think you're right. But here's the thing that's right. Even crazier. It's like Temple of Doom. Everyone's like, no one likes that because it added an annoying kid sidekick. And everyone's like, actually, no, Short Round kind of works.

[Griffin Newman]

The kid's not the problem.

[David Sims]

And I feel like at the time, maybe, maybe there was a little bit of grousing about, like, kid sidekick. Like George Lucas always, you know, these days, everything's so kid friendly. But Short Round completely works, I think so. It's an incredibly lovely, natural performance. And like you say, Harrison Ford has genuine chemistry with him. It's just weird that that's not the problem with this.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm like, I would rather see this movie. I'd rather see this movie taking place after Raiders.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

With Marian.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And the entire Short Round arc happens in it. Like, the. The attempted pickpocketing happens in it.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, I just feel like their arc starts in exactly the wrong place. They are really good together. But in a movie where the romantic relationship is a disaster, you'd rather see that relationship develop as a new thing and grow over the course of a movie rather than just have him be like, here's my guy.

[Olivia Craighead]

I do love when he. The reveal of Short Round where there's a kid driving the car.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, hold on to your potatoes.

[David Sims]

Ugh.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, let's also say it is a lot like. It is a much nicer experience watching this movie. Now on the other side of, like, Kehy Quan's, like, ultimate triumph comeback shit, where I do. It didn't feel, like haunted before, but there was this feeling of watching this movie for a long time. And Being like, and what the fuck happened to him?

[David Sims]

I mean he's in the Goonies.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, he was so big for a couple of years in the 80s. To watch this film in the 90s or the 2000s or the 2010s, you were a little like hey, I'm glad he didn't die of a drug overdose. But it's a little bit weird that this guy disappeared and now it just feels like triumphant.

[Olivia Craighead]

Great does.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's odd. I know they considered putting him in Dial of Destiny and James Mangold who often has really good instincts on this stuff was like, eh, that's like shitty Legacyquel stuff. Like I don't want to do it. But it's kind of crazy. He did not come back for either Legacyquel.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's crazy like Crystal Skull.

[David Sims]

I guess he had not really reemerged as an adult actor yet. But like why is he not in dialogue?

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, I agree with you. But also I mean if I'm not mistaken because whatchamacallit, everything everywhere all at once finishes Filming I think January 2020.

[David Sims]

Right. It took a while to come out cause of pandemic.

[Griffin Newman]

I believe all of principal photography was finished on Dial of Destiny before everything everywhere came out.

[David Sims]

Oh really? Oh okay. Okay. So it's weird but I know they considered it.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course.

[David Sims]

Like they definitely.

[Griffin Newman]

They definitely considered before but he was not on their radar as look how good this guy is now. Well, they should even still considered it or they should have fell back. Don't do pre shoots.

[David Sims]

Like I'm like Indiana Jones and the Star 69. Well, what's another phone thing?

[Griffin Newman]

That's the one.

[David Sims]

Call waiting.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Star 69.

[David Sims]

Okay, fine, forget it.

[Ben Hosley]

1, 800 collect.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Roshan Seth. That was good then who plays the villain?

[Ben Hosley]

Thanks, Olivia.

[David Sims]

Sort of the sort of the face villain in a way. Right.

[Olivia Craighead]

Like you know, great face on that guy.

[Griffin Newman]

You're talking about Mala Ram.

[David Sims]

No, I am not. That's our mission. Amrish pure.

[Olivia Craighead]

That's what I'm talking about.

[David Sims]

The prime minister guy, you know, the. The guy at the dinner. Oh sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Who's sort of the Belloc equivalent.

[David Sims]

He feels bad about this movie a little bit.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Because obviously this movie was widely castigated at the time for being kind of like retrograde in its presentation of India.

[Griffin Newman]

And like this sort of evil exoticism.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he's like, we really. I really think the whole point of like the banquet scene and stuff was a joke about that is like they are leaning into stereotypes. Like you know, they Think trying to, you know, Westerners only. Exactly. Would only expect like this kind of stuff. And I think that stuff's just too subtle for that movie. George Lucas, on the other hand, is kind of like, eh, we're kind of like doing the Abbott and Costello or like Thin Man. Like this kind of old fashioned humor.

[Griffin Newman]

George Lucas like, loves old outrageous humor. And then he points to the stuff he loves and you're like, that's just abject racism.

[David Sims]

It's like, George, it's different now. I mean, that's his defense about everything where he's just like, what? It's fun. Who cares? It's for children. You.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, but.

[Olivia Craighead]

But it's also not even like a good joke.

[David Sims]

It doesn't work.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's not like. It's not like something where someone could be like, that's racist, but someone else could equally be like, but it's so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

The scene is so endless.

[David Sims]

It's so.

[Griffin Newman]

It's got 20 beats and just.

[Ben Hosley]

The snake thing doesn't make sense.

[Olivia Craighead]

Oh, the snake's inside.

[David Sims]

How did they prepare this dish?

[Ben Hosley]

But also snake pregnant. But you're like, they cook the snake.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a dish. What am I, Am I supposed to eat the live snakes that are escaping or eat the husks?

[Olivia Craighead]

You can't do this with India, a country that is famous for having like, some of the best.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I know that. It doesn't make any.

[Olivia Craighead]

Look, they should just be eating dolls.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, the snake bit happens and like, Willie's freaking out, right? Short rounds, freaking out. Indy is the guy at the table who's like, pretty calm and civil and is like, eat your monkey brains or whatever, right? And I'm like, God, watch how hard he's gonna flip out when he sees the snakes. He's acting like he's above it all when he.

[Olivia Craighead]

They don't even.

[Griffin Newman]

He never clocks the snakes. I'm like, what are we doing here? What's the point?

[David Sims]

So my other problem with Temple of Doom, I said this to Olivia already.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't know if you agree. Does this movie take place over like eight hours? Kind of feels like weirdly like the pacing of it is very odd. Where it's like we're right from this, you know, initial set piece, right? Then we're in the plane, then we crash. And then it's like, now we're in India. What's the deal in India? Well, there's this thing going on with the kids have been taken by this cult and Indiana Jones is like on it. And then he's like, right on it. And then that's kind of that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And I'm like, so this just took place over, like, a couple days, maybe.

[Ben Hosley]

It seems like they travel from the top of Mount Everest to India in 10 minutes.

[David Sims]

So there's almost no time for anyone to really grow.

[Olivia Craighead]

Where it's just like, there is snow on the ground and then there is not. Like that is.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also. Most of it is not very propulsive. Which is the most impressive thing about Raiders, right? It's just, like how it keeps fucking moving and moving in a way that feels justified. Whereas setting up the sort of like, proper Rube Goldberg machine cause and effect thing. This movie opens with your classic Indiana Jones cold open adventure sequence sequence. And then in the part in Writers where he has to go back home and teach and meet with Brody and get assigned the next mission, the sort of, like, moment to rest and reset to show the other side of his personality, which is really important, which this movie, in its design fucks up, basically leaves out of the equation. I feel like him at the dinner table is them trying to get in Professor Jones mode.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Oh, I'm gonna change to a suit and I'm gonna talk in a very quiet voice and not do action movie stuff. And I'm like, but it doesn't work here. You're not doing the like. What I said in our Raiders episode of, like. The thing I think is so good about the characterization of Indiana Jones is that his professor Persona is not a Persona. It's not an act. It's not a Clark Kent misdirect. Both of these are valid sides of his personality. This movie starts with him in James Bond mode. Not even in Indiana Jones adventure mode.

[Olivia Craighead]

A full James Bond mode.

[Griffin Newman]

Tuxedo, white tuxedo escapes by the skin of his teeth. A great sequence right at the Obi.

[Olivia Craighead]

Wan cafe or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Jumps out the window. Short Round is driving. And then, like, the movie's off and running. Now he's off and running. He's trying to escape. He gets on the plane. He's with Willie Scott. They crash land. Now they're given their new assignment. But the new assignment isn't like, you gotta keep running. People are after you.

[David Sims]

No, it's go save these children in this place. And it is kind of a James Bond mission. Like, go have dinner with the villain. Go get the lay of the land. Uncover the evil beneath.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. This one's so much more structured like a James Bond movie than the rules they had established for what an Indiana Jones movie. Is. And how it's different from a James Bond movie. And then there's really no, like, sense of immediate danger, I would say, between them getting on the plane and when they're kidnapped by the thuggies. Right. There's sort of this extended James Bondi. Like, let me try to figure out what's going on here. And a lot of that is also just let me fight with Willie Scott a bunch. And then you get into this extended, like, super dark set piece. Which I think there's something weird about this movie doing this. Like, here's his kid sidekick. Here's the movie being more family friendly. Pulling it further away from an adult world. Even the way that Willy and Indy interact with each other feels like 6 year olds with a crush on each other. Like fighting on the playground versus Raiders. Which gives you like a kind of adult relationship. And then it just goes into this incredibly dark place that feels like it's trying to create nightmares. Which I love conceptually. But at this point in the movie I just am like, what the fuck is going on here?

[David Sims]

I. I do like some of the nasty stuff. Just in terms of, like, it's effective.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Like, it's. It's kind of fun that it's gnarly. It just doesn't vibe with everything else. Like you're saying very well.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think the bit where Short Round and Indy are like stuck in that room and the ceiling is coming down. I think that is co. I think Willie's being annoying. But I do think that that sort of. I'm like, that is the Indiana Jones thing. He is in imminent danger and someone has to figure it out really quick.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's doing the little faster kind of.

[Olivia Craighead]

Exactly. This is what. This is what I want to see.

[David Sims]

This is what you want to see. Traps. Right. And propulsive. You know, like, we gotta go, we gotta go.

[Griffin Newman]

One thing leads to the next. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I think they were somewhat hampered by Harrison Ford fucked up his back. The only time he ever injured himself on set riding an elephant. And they had to do a lot of stuff with his stuntman.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Doubling Vic Armstrong. Sort of a famous.

[Griffin Newman]

His lifelong.

[David Sims]

Right. And they. You know, Lucas says, like, that was a major drama. So I know it was not just like some bullshit.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't know if it affected the story.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say. I'm sure it made production more difficult. All my biggest problems with this movie are in dialogue scenes.

[David Sims]

I completely agree.

[Olivia Craighead]

Because really is just like not a great score.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm basically fine with any and all of the set Pieces. I think they work on their own sort of terms.

[David Sims]

I think it's fair to say the minecart sequence is the best action sequence in all of Indiana Jones. I'm not saying that's like a you can't argue with me position. I'm saying it's a position you can take.

[Griffin Newman]

You can take the position.

[David Sims]

I'll take the position.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

I'm taking it right now.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also one of those things where like just an astonishing. How did they pull this off in 1984?

[Olivia Craighead]

It's incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

The whole thing is thrilling to watch. And it's to use Yalls word, propulsive. Because every time they're like we did it. Another thing is happening that's literally like.

[Griffin Newman]

Structurally how you want these movies to work is like they're on rails and then someone flips a switch and you go off in a different direction. And now there's a new issue and you're upside down. Like that's how Indiana Jones movies should play out.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

David?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Hair is so much more than what you see when you look in the mirror.

[David Sims]

What more is it?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, from stress and nutrition hormones to lifestyle, so many internal factors affect what you see on the outside, right?

[David Sims]

Sure, of course. Lots of things can mess with hair.

[Griffin Newman]

And confusing to me because my stress is always low, my nutrition is excellent. I really don't have a handle on hormones.

[David Sims]

Sure. You don't know what's actually going on there.

[Griffin Newman]

Lifestyle is balanced. But with neutrophils science backed whole body approach nourish growth from within and achieve your best hair yet. I take neutrophil, David.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

You know why?

[David Sims]

What's the.

[Griffin Newman]

Because I'm not gaining hair, I'll tell you that much.

[David Sims]

Well, it would kind of be weird for you to be gaining hair, but.

[Griffin Newman]

I understand I'm not Wolf Manning.

[David Sims]

Sure. These. What, what is. Is it a. How do you take neutral. Tell me. Pills?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's easy.

[David Sims]

How long you been taking it?

[Griffin Newman]

How long have I been taking it? Maybe six to nine months.

[David Sims]

Did you notice improve?

[Griffin Newman]

Of course I did. Listen, Nutril Shedding is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people including downtown Griffin news. You can see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with neutral.

[David Sims]

That's. That's awesome. It's physician formulated. It's got 100% drug free ingredients that supports healthy hair growth from within by targeting key root causes of thinning stress hormones as we say aging Nutrition, lifestyle.

[Griffin Newman]

And let me say this thinning hair is different for men and women. So one size fits all approach to hair growth doesn't cut it. Neutral has multiple formulas for men and women that are tailored to different life stages such as postpartum or menopause and lifestyle factors such as a plant based lifestyle. I wouldn't know from that. Sounds like some Wally stuff. So you can just get, get what you need. That's kind of a funny joke, right?

[David Sims]

Yeah, because he's got, he's got that plant that he's guarding it kind of.

[Griffin Newman]

His whole life is centered around guarding that plan. I'd call it a plant based lifestyle.

[David Sims]

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[Griffin Newman]

Molly doesn't have any hair.

[David Sims]

Not that I know of.

[Griffin Newman]

David.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Elevating my style used to mean breaking the bank.

[David Sims]

Your hands are in the air.

[Griffin Newman]

The bank was, was broken. But, but with Quint, I get high end versatile pieces at prices I can actually afford. Now I can upgrade my style by snagging killer luxury essentials that sync with my vibe and my wallet. David, you love Quint.

[David Sims]

I do. I'm probably wearing some right now. I'm a big fan of their must haves, iconic 100% leather jackets, versatile flow knit activewear. And the best part is all Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they cut out the cost of the Millman by partnering directly with top factories. And you get those savings passed to you.

[Griffin Newman]

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[David Sims]

Bank. Bank fixed. Bank has big band aid on it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Like big oversized bank has thermometer in its mouth. The thermometer is low, low. And the bank is smiling. Yes, we're on the same page here. Look. Quint only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics and finishes. I love that. And that has the bank in a real calm peace of mind. You know what I'm saying? The bank looks like the bank's giving a thumbs up.

[David Sims]

Yes, I've got sweaters. They're all very affordable. They come very fast, they fit very well. And look, you can indulge in affordable luxury if you go to quince.com for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com check to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com check.

[Griffin Newman]

I like the sound of that. That's the bank.

[David Sims]

Oh, Bank's bank.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe it comes back in another ad.

[David Sims]

We'll see.

[Olivia Craighead]

I kind of am cool with the last 20 minutes.

[David Sims]

Well, you know what's also good about the.

[Olivia Craighead]

Because there's also the drawstring, the drawbridge.

[David Sims]

And what's happening there, Olivia?

[Olivia Craighead]

What do you mean, what's happening?

[David Sims]

We're outside. So much of this movie is inside or subterranean. And Spielberg himself has acknowledged, like, that becomes kind of a bummer. Indiana Jones should have some vistas, like, should have a sense of being in places. And as much as some of those cavern sets are kind of. Of cool and big, beautiful, you kind of, at a certain point are like, you know, can I see the sunshine a little bit? Like, I think it gets to you.

[Griffin Newman]

Club Obi Wan, Great set. Cool to have a musical number, good opening. But you're like, not only is it starting in this very James Bondi world, but we're starting the first 10 minutes of the movie, like, in a room.

[David Sims]

In a room. Not. Yeah. In some exotic locale. Yes, we are in an exotic locale, but not in the same way.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Like Rage of the Lost Ark. All the location stuff is so cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And, like, first 10 minutes of Raiders, he's, like, fucking outrunning a boulder, getting on a biplane at the same time.

[David Sims]

We've just been complaining about this movie for an hour. Plus. Right. And that's what people do about Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Like, Right. Like that. Of course, there are defenders. Tarantino is always going on about how it's the best one, you know, there. There's all the contrarian, you know, takes that have emerged over the last 40 years. This movie is fun to watch. And I watch. I've watched it many, many times. It's a totally watchable movie. Harrison Ford is maybe at his sexiest in it.

[Olivia Craighead]

Okay. That's something we have to think about because they let him take his shirt off.

[David Sims]

Yes. He's really. Because it's like this witness, like, Working Girl. Like, it's really him. It.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely.

[Olivia Craighead]

He looks hotter in this one than he does in Raiders.

[David Sims]

Yes. And he looks hot.

[Griffin Newman]

And. Yeah. I think there's a major step down in his performance. And I think a lot of it is the setup of the story. And the.

[Olivia Craighead]

He also probably was like dealing with back pain.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say. That also fills in a lot. He does look, look.

[Olivia Craighead]

He looks incredible. I also. I was.

[David Sims]

Wears every costume.

[Olivia Craighead]

Well, I was watching this with my boyfriend and humble brag and.

[David Sims]

Did you tell him about Sawyer?

[Olivia Craighead]

He was. And he was like, oh, he looks just kind of like a normal guy. He doesn't have. He looks jacked. But he.

[Griffin Newman]

We talked about this in the writers episode. Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

He looks jacked in a way that is completely attainable.

[Griffin Newman]

Ryan Michael Bennis was saying that he remembers as a child how much press to do there was about the regiment.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Which Harrison Ford went on. You're not going to believe how big he is in this movie. And that. That was the big. Oh, Drew Struzan painting of him with the ripped off sleeve and the chest exposed and all the images and everything. And people were like, holy. Like fanning themselves down. And you're like, this is what the comic relief looks like.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, right.

[David Sims]

This is Jake Johnson in. In the Mummy.

[Griffin Newman]

Twice as big in the Mummy as Harrison Ford is in this.

[Olivia Craighead]

He looks incredible though.

[Griffin Newman]

But that he does.

[Olivia Craighead]

He looks like so good.

[Griffin Newman]

You know why? Because he look a real person. He looks like the best. A real person.

[Olivia Craighead]

He literally looks like a hot professor.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

Like if you have ever had a hot professor. He kind of looks like Harrison ford in the 80s.

[David Sims]

He can lecture me.

[Olivia Craighead]

I also think the reason that we've kind of been shitting on this movie is because you have nothing that you have to compare it to Raiders.

[Griffin Newman]

You have to.

[Olivia Craighead]

And it just is such a kind of steep fall off from that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Even like I'm watching these on like successive dates. Right. Like I'm. I'm only living with raiders for maximum 48 hours before I watch Temple of Doom. And I just immediately was like, what's going on with this one? Like, explain to me what the deal is with this one and you saying about watching a lot and being very watchable. I like, largely agree, except I would say Willie Scott annoys me more than most characters in the history.

[David Sims]

She's tough. I'm not here to truly stick up for yeah. Willie Scott.

[Griffin Newman]

And every time I rewatch it, I'm like, am I overreacting? Am I being too hard? Do I need to fucking cool it and watch it with fresh eyes? And it does just feel like she keeps saying like, stop the movie. I want to get off.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

I also am kind of like, I think the, the like thuggie villain thing Is not totally coherent to me. It doesn't. Like, first of all, it's like, there's a lot of, like, scholarly skepticism about the.

[David Sims]

Were they just sort of a fake villain created by the British Empire?

[Olivia Craighead]

Like, why is there, like, a voodoo doll? I'm like, that is Haitian. Like, what are we? We're pulling from so many different places. And I get that. Maybe it's a commentary on. I don't think so.

[David Sims]

I think it's more the George Lucas thing of, like, no, these movies all had, like, a bunch of fantasy shit in them.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think it's all like, oh, if you are like, an evil person of color in one of those movies, you have, like, weird.

[David Sims]

You can access all color magic.

[Olivia Craighead]

And it's like, like, I, I, I think if it were more honed in, maybe I would.

[Griffin Newman]

I also think not to, like, once again, complain about what it does that I feel like the, the rules of the Indiana Jones movies. Right. But you're like, the fun of this is, to me, Indiana Jones versus a different type of, like, shitty, like, colonizer. Yeah, right. It's like there is a central. There is a mythology, there is a history, there's objects, there is culture. But he can't be fighting with that culture.

[Olivia Craighead]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He has to be fighting with someone else, fighting over their interpretation of the culture. And this is sort of trying to do that where it's like the small village saying, bring our stones back. But they're basically activating him like he's a superhero being. Like, Indiana Jones, we conjured you here.

[David Sims]

Trouble on the mountain. Yes. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You just spend an afternoon with us and now please go off and like, save our stones.

[Ben Hosley]

But can I ask, did anyone ever think, like, I think the first time I saw it, but I kind of thought that Indiana Jones, his motivation was to keep the stone.

[David Sims]

Sure. Is he.

[Ben Hosley]

It feels like. It's not clear.

[Olivia Craighead]

It should, should be that.

[David Sims]

Or maybe that's a crisis because it's a prequel.

[Griffin Newman]

It should be like, this was his earlier, like, I just want treasures and sell them phase.

[Olivia Craighead]

But instead he just wants to get the stone to bring back, to bring back to the village to, like, bring the kids.

[Ben Hosley]

But he says some line of like, like, like glory and something.

[Griffin Newman]

Fame and glory.

[Olivia Craighead]

But again, this is, this is the thing of, like, the movie. You have seen Raiders and you have an idea of this guy loves to go get things and bring them back to his museum. That is what he loves to do. Great. But this movie is like, he actually doesn't care about that right now.

[Griffin Newman]

And also, this guy hasn't done Raiders yet. So you're like, if you're not gonna answer to me, the differences between that guy and this guy, then what are we doing here? Like, this movie needs Brody being like, hey, I got an interesting message. Yeah, there's a small village, right? They're looking for someone.

[David Sims]

You know, you just miss Brody, as do I. Where is he?

[Griffin Newman]

But I agree with you that Ford is playing it darker as well. And perhaps that is part of the, like, the darkness triangle of, like, Marcia Lucas, divorce, Twilight Zone death, and Harrison Ford's back injury. But the whole movie feels like he's playing it in a more menacing way. And the ultimate manifestation of that being him having to play Possessed Indy and potentially put this child in harm. It feels like he's leaning into something darker the whole time where I keep on waiting for that of some scene where he's like, you know what? It should belong in a museum. I've learned.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Well, I almost like that these movies don't try that hard to be right. Like, it's more like, no, it's just Indiana has an Adventure. Don't worry about it. But why have it be a prequel?

[Olivia Craighead]

I think it is, like, getting in the way.

[Griffin Newman]

That's why it shouldn't be a prequel and it shouldn't be the darker middle entry, because that's meaningless.

[Olivia Craighead]

I also think that if you had just told me that this. Well, I guess the Marian thing kind of gets in the way. If you just, like, tell me, don't put a year on just kind of saying, yeah, or say that, like. Say that, like. I don't know, Marian has, like, come to her senses and wants a man with a stable job or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Marian left me because I'm a pain in the ass.

[Olivia Craighead]

I'm always getting jewelry, and now I'm in a bad mood.

[Griffin Newman]

It turned out she was a fembot. I found out in our honeymoon that is really.

[David Sims]

That's a. That's. That's really good writing. That's the kind. No, but that's the kind of brilliant screenwriting that maybe Lucas and Silver couldn't get access to.

[Olivia Craighead]

But I think the prequel of it, that's a joke.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I agree with you. And I. And I also think that, like, here's. Here's another issue I have with the darker middle entry thing. Right? Empire. Lucas is justifying that shit so well. Like, here's the meeting with the father, your reality falling out. Right. Your character's being tested, them coming up against their own limitations. None of the darkness of this movie is connected to Indiana Jones as a character. Because Indiana Jones is a character who doesn't go through serious arcs. Right.

[David Sims]

He's right.

[Olivia Craighead]

He stays the same. And that's what's cool about the movies.

[Griffin Newman]

And the only thing that that can change Indiana Jones is his relationship to a character. Right. People pushing him a little bit in one direction or another, challenging him a little bit. But he's got such high status on Willie the entire movie where he's just kind of like, you know, the Thin man equation of like, oh, part of this is working in this sort of screwball back and forth. She can, you know, give it just as hard as she takes it kind of banter shit doesn't work if like the Thin man is a detective and his wife who hates mysteries.

[Olivia Craighead]

Well, that's why I think that like.

[David Sims]

The scene and screams whenever anyone has a gun.

[Olivia Craighead]

Like she screams so much it's crazy. But I think the scene where him and Short Round are playing poker is so good because it's like, oh, here's someone who's getting one over on Indiana. Something we don't see that much.

[Griffin Newman]

Short Round also wants to be an Indiana Jones movie, but has a slightly different way about it, which is the right kind of Indiana Jones pairings. And. But starting this movie with their relationship mid swing and ending it on a note of. And of course we'll go on adventures forever. Doesn't really service like putting Indy through anything. As much as we don't want to see him grow or change significantly. There are like small arcs that can happen and the darkness is just like. They literally just descend into a dark temple. You know, like the darker middle entry shit is only they move into a space where darker shit is happening. They literally go underground and then fucked up things happen in front of their eyes and then they go back above ground and they're like, woo, enough of that darkness.

[David Sims]

Kind of. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So it just feels kind of unearned to me. Versus like Batman Returns is a classic, like biting the hand. Darker sequel.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That I adore. That feels dark in a holistic psychological way.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Rather than just like. Right. It's like basically everyone's the same. It's just the locale and the vibes are a little darker. I don't know. I just feel this way the same I do about like I said it already about Lost World where I'm just like, you're in the hands. You're in the safest hands.

[Griffin Newman]

It has like four of the best directed sequences you will ever see in Your life.

[David Sims]

Like, you know, Lost World, I can watch any time because I'm like, well, I know this is coming up, but I can also watch it the whole time. Being like, this doesn't really make a lot of sense that this would happen. Like, you know, and like, I. Yeah. Did anyone check in on. And the answer is kind of like, eh, they had to do a sequel. And so they did their best in, you know, whatever time frame they had and this is what they gave you. And after the fact, maybe they can be like, well, you know what? Like fucking, you know, Marcia Lucas, though, I was pissed off. It's like, yeah, maybe you just made an okay sequel.

[Griffin Newman]

Sequel. It's interesting to me.

[David Sims]

That's flawed.

[Griffin Newman]

Jumping ahead, we've recorded our Jurassic episode already, even though it's far off because of guest availability. And there was a thing in the dossier that really jumped.

[David Sims]

It was a blue from Jurassic World resurgence.

[Griffin Newman]

We booked blue.

[Olivia Craighead]

That's huge.

[David Sims]

That's a whole episode is us going.

[Griffin Newman]

For the listener at home. David is doing the iconic arm gesture of Owen Grady. Raptor training.

[David Sims]

Remember me?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, I was gonna say more like a Johnny Bravo.

[Griffin Newman]

Click, click.

[David Sims]

Do the monkey with me.

[Griffin Newman]

He is doing. David's doing the monkey.

[David Sims]

No, Johnny Bravo is going to be on our Color Purple episode. Come on.

[Griffin Newman]

David just mimed three point shot.

[David Sims]

That was fun. Just imagine it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Y.

[Griffin Newman]

A quote that has really stuck with me. I never really considered before Jaws spawns a bunch of sequels. Me, Spielberg. Yeah, that was the quote. Oh, mama. Spielberg wants nothing to do with the Jaws sequels, right?

[David Sims]

Yeah. He develops ET2 and is wisely like, I cannot think of reason for this.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And there's this quote about why. Why did he do Lost World? And he was like, you know, I got so many letters from kids being like, when are you making the next Jurassic Park?

[David Sims]

And I got this one letter from universal being like, $20 million. Yeah, carry on. Carry on. Period.

[Griffin Newman]

But he was like, when that was asked of me, of E.T. i went through the thought experiment. I was like, this is too precious. I don't have anything new to say. It's sacred. I don't want to touch it. Right. Jaws, they wanted to make them. I didn't want to touch them. I couldn't stop them from making them at that point. But I had nothing new to say. Indiana Jones was different because I had made this agreement and I promised George I'd make three of them. Jurassic was the first time where I was like, you know what? I actually don't feel that precious. About this. So what reason is there for me to stand in the way of a sequel where he basically admits that he's just like, I don't know, like, Jurassic wasn't super personal for me. Yeah. Like, people liked it. Why don't I try it again?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And I wonder, like, what the timeline is like in which Steven Spielberg makes a third Jurassic movie.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Because I like Last Crusade so much, and I know a lot of people are like, that's when it sort of got kidified and silly and the tension goes out and this and that. But I do think it's kind of a return to. And it feels in that way that you see, like, the arcs of Spielberg's career when he feels like he has something to prove. It's always really interesting when he's either trying to do a thing he hasn't done before or, like, recover from a setback. And Last Crusade definitely has the energy of him being like, I need to make another good Indiana Jones movie. To, like, reset everything.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah. To, like, reset the dials. Just like, like, totally get back to baseline.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's the third one. And we end it on a good note. I want to end it on a good note. And, like, in between this and Last Crusade, he does Color Purple. And he does.

[Olivia Craighead]

Does Color Purple come out the year after this or is it. When is.

[David Sims]

When does he jump to color purple is 85. So it's two years after this.

[Griffin Newman]

Of the sun is after Color Purple. Correct.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And then Always and Last Crusade are in the same year, which is the.

[David Sims]

First time he does the two movies in one year.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's like him doing three grown up movies in a row. Like two harder dramas and like one grown up comedy in between two Indiana Jones entries. Yes. Where at that point it feels like he's going back to, like. And I'm gonna do Spielberg magician, wonder maker mode, Dream worker, if you will.

[David Sims]

I'm sort of like sitting in a moon and kind of fishing.

[Griffin Newman]

Olivia raised her eyebrows.

[David Sims]

No, I mean, his whole late 80s, I think, is. Is suspect at the time. People are like, the only true hit is. I mean, Color Purple makes a lot of money.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And gets a lot of Oscar nominations and is honestly an incredibly important movie. But, you know, it's not quite. It's not what he wanted it to be.

[Griffin Newman]

But I get a feeling of him walking away from this being like, I can't keep doing the Spielberg shit.

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

I gotta try some other stuff.

[David Sims]

But he doesn't. Until Jurassic park, he doesn't quite have the undeniable Spielberg thing. He has no. You know, when he.

[Griffin Newman]

Last Crusade was close, Hook was not.

[Olivia Craighead]

The Run is India is Temple of Doom, Color Purple, Empire of the Sun. Last Crusade. Always.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Hook. Hook, yes.

[Olivia Craighead]

What's up with Always? Have you guys done that one yet?

[David Sims]

No, we haven't done that.

[Griffin Newman]

I haven't seen it.

[David Sims]

You've never seen it?

[Griffin Newman]

Never seen it.

[David Sims]

Remaking one of his most favorite movies. And it's basically him trying to do Frank Capra.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And it's just like. It's syrup on syrup. Like, you can't.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, Audrey Hepburn's last performance. It's like his real. Right. Kind of pastiche.

[David Sims]

It also suffered. Dreyfus, in my opinion, is not good in it. Holly Hunter, amazing in it.

[Griffin Newman]

What's your problem with Dreyfus? Too quiet, too calm.

[David Sims]

But Jurassic Park, Schindler's List.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's not like Spielberg had become a failure. No, but that is people being like, oh, yeah, shit. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

It's undeniable. That's an undeniable year.

[David Sims]

And, yes, every child loves Hook now. Every child. By child, I mean person in their 30s who lives in Bushwick. But, I mean, at the time when Hook came out, people were like, he's a little cooked. Like, this is embarrassing. This is getting a little embarrassing.

[Griffin Newman]

Which probably helped. Jurassic.

[David Sims]

Yes. For sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Like, this movie is hurt by coming off of ET Where I think, to some degree, he doesn't have anything to. He went from Indiana Jones to ET And ET Has a greater level of psychological depth. Just by design.

[Olivia Craighead]

ET Is just, like, so good. I. When I was watching the best movie documentary, they just show the clip at from the end of E.T. where E.T. is like, I live in here. And I was, like, about to start crying.

[David Sims]

No, perfect.

[Olivia Craighead]

E.T.

[David Sims]

Is the one time I've been asked. And it was on my, like, you know, 14th watch.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, are you okay? Because I was, like, sopping, like, by the person who. I think my mother. Like, not even, like, some, like, date.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's like a miracle movie. And it must have been a little weird to make ET and then go like, I guess I gotta make another Indiana Jones now.

[David Sims]

It must have been to make sense. So maybe someone should rip someone's heart out in this movie.

[Olivia Craighead]

Because is ET the first one where he's like, no, I guess it's not the first one where he's like, it sucks that my parents got divorced. But, like, it is really him putting his heart on his sleeve in, like, a really big way.

[David Sims]

It's the way most personal he's, well, Close Encounters.

[Olivia Craighead]

I was gonna say Close Encounters is really like him trying that. But ET Is just so sentimental. But ET Is all complimentary.

[David Sims]

Whereas Right Hook is so sentimental, not complimentary. Right Hook is. You know, we'll talk about Hook. But, like, the shit that sucks in Hook is Robin Williams, like, with his eyes shimmering, being like, I should work less hard. And I'm like, steven, talk to a therapist. I want to watch a Peter Pan movie with sword fight fights. I don't need this. And like, in Hook, the stuff I like is Dustin Hoffman and Bob Hoskins doing, like, a Carry on movie. I'm like, that's fun. Like, that's silly. I just don't need Robin Williams being like, my cell phone. I'm like, your cell phone?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I think there's also. Look, we'll talk about this in the Hook episode, but there's perhaps a thing where people are like, oh, my God, Steven Spielberg making the Peter Pan movie. That's perfect.

[David Sims]

The child at heart.

[Olivia Craighead]

On the nose.

[David Sims]

It's too on the nose. So he's like, I'm too. Of a child at heart. And again, I'm just.

[Griffin Newman]

And here's the second problem. The. The hook to Hook, if you will, is what if Peter Pan did grow up and became a boring adult and had to reconnect with being Peter Pan? And I'm like, huh, That's a thing that Steven Spielberg can't relate to. That's the one perspective that's going to make zero sense to him.

[Olivia Craighead]

Is Hoffman kind of cooking in that movie, or was I like, a kid?

[David Sims]

Hoffman has a cauldron the size of turf.

[Olivia Craighead]

It is.

[David Sims]

He is cooking.

[Griffin Newman]

So.

[David Sims]

So he's fucking incredible. It is. And here's my other.

[Olivia Craighead]

I remember that from being a child. I remember being like, something is cool here.

[David Sims]

We're right.

[Griffin Newman]

But Bob Hoskins is fucking Gordon Ramsay.

[David Sims]

No, that's what I was about to say. And I will advance this argument again on Herc episode. But I want to say it now. Every Steven Spielberg movie would be better if you added Bob Hoskins as Smee just in the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct.

[David Sims]

Like, if Bob Hoskins as Smee was in this movie somewhere, that'd be great.

[Griffin Newman]

If Bob Hoskinskins was Willie Scott.

[Olivia Craighead]

Oh, well, I was going to say Bob Hoskins as Smee in the post.

[David Sims]

That'd be great for Files.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, let me just play out a scene for you. Right.

[David Sims]

Pentagon.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Indiana Jones is on an elephant, not breaking his back. Right. Fortune and Glory. Short round Fortune and glory. Then other elephant pulls up. It's Bob Hoskins. Yeah. I was an opera singer. He was back in Shanghai. I had my friends with my dad here in the back of an elephant with you.

[David Sims]

He's that stuff. That was good Rule.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

I have a couple things to say. One, your Harrison Ford is really good.

[Griffin Newman]

You know what? I think it's usually good. And I couldn't get it in the Raiders episode and it's been haunting me. It's the one where I. I'll say.

[Olivia Craighead]

It on this one. It's good. Two, I like that their elephants are all to their size.

[David Sims]

Indiana Jones is not a big one.

[Olivia Craighead]

Medium one. And then short runs on a small one. And that was kind of my two things.

[David Sims]

Hoffman took hooking. So that scene in Hook where they're bringing the hook up to him on the pillow and all the pirates. You. You are like, this is pure li Sex cinema. It's so good.

[Griffin Newman]

Save it for.

[David Sims]

And then there's two hours of Robin Williams being like, I don't know how to have fun. And I'm like, yes, you do. You're Robin Williams.

[Griffin Newman]

We got a really good guest for the look episode.

[David Sims]

I hope he shows up.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I just. You sent him an email.

[David Sims]

I'll send it to. He's busy. He's busy. I want to send it when he's.

[Griffin Newman]

Going to look shoes on the other foot in terms of not sending emails.

[David Sims]

Oh, I. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes, yes.

[David Sims]

Is there anything else we want to talk about in Indiana Jones? Okay, well, then let's talk about it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

What's Harrison. What does Harris. What is Harrison Ford up to now? Does he just like fly his plane?

[Griffin Newman]

He's on four TV shows.

[David Sims]

Do you mean right now or do you mean in 1980?

[Olivia Craighead]

Presently? Because I know he's like sort of on his big run in the 80s.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I mean, right. Right now he's doing after shows.

[Olivia Craighead]

He does. Oh, right. He's on shrinking and. Isn't he on a Sheridan?

[Griffin Newman]

He's on a Yellowstone. I think he's on 19 of that Yellowstone.

[David Sims]

23. And it's about. Yep.

[Olivia Craighead]

Wheat is expensive with the taxes and everything.

[David Sims]

For you.

[Olivia Craighead]

No, for him. He loves weed.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I need more weed.

[Griffin Newman]

What else does he have going on in pictures? Does he have pictures coming up?

[David Sims]

Newton Motion Pictures.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

A little movie called Captain America. Colin Brie of New World in which.

[Griffin Newman]

He rolls out the president.

[Olivia Craighead]

He should do. Here's my pitch to Harrison ford. Morning Glory 2. Let's get the gang back on that.

[Griffin Newman]

But it should Be about regularly maintained.

[Olivia Craighead]

Looking at his filmography last night I was like fuck, that movie is so good.

[Griffin Newman]

Agree. I talk about it all the time. I think he should have gotten nominated for that. So maybe should have been it won for that.

[David Sims]

I don't think he should have won for it. But he is good.

[Griffin Newman]

He has only one other movie listed upcoming on IMDb called the Miserable Adventures of Bert Squire and it has no other information connected to it.

[Olivia Craighead]

Probably it's just like.

[Griffin Newman]

But it doesn't seem like there's anything else that he's even like attached to in development on.

[David Sims]

Yeah. The Miserable Adventures of Bert Squire is an STX project that he signed on to with ed Helms in 2020. Me thinks that one is going to get shipwrecked. I don't think it's gonna make it. He is a rooster in Secret Life of Pets. Two thoughts. Thoughts.

[Griffin Newman]

I thought he was a dog. And that's the dog named Rooster.

[David Sims]

Maybe the dog's name.

[Ben Hosley]

How about the dog movie though? The two hander that he's in.

[David Sims]

Call of the Wild. Call of the Wild. I never saw it.

[Ben Hosley]

I watched it when I was on a trip recently and I just like needed to put something on. It is not good.

[Griffin Newman]

Did you cry?

[Ben Hosley]

Did I cry?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Yep.

[David Sims]

Yeah. The dog and stuff.

[Ben Hosley]

It's a dog. Our friend.

[Griffin Newman]

Single most damning review of Moana too. We go to see it with our friend Ben David Grabinski, who had never had the pleasure of going to see a movie with Mr. Hosley before.

[David Sims]

Oh sure.

[Griffin Newman]

We're seeing in 40x. I'm priming the pump. I'm like, Ben David, get ready to watch Ben cry. You were gonna watch Ben cry tonight.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm an easy crier, but right.

[Griffin Newman]

And he was like for Moana too. Everyone says it sucks. And I was like, you're. This is the point I'm making. I guarantee you there will be one thing that will happen. It will develop within the span of five seconds. Ben will go from normal to quickly sobbing because there will be jostles, a moment of kindness towards an animal or someone saying they're proud of someone else. And it will happen. Right? Like just the faucet will turn and walked. I said, ben, how are you feeling? He went dry as a bone. And that's 40x. There's water sprayed.

[David Sims]

Sprayed.

[Griffin Newman]

And I was like, this thing really doesn't. It couldn't even get Ben crying for three seconds. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Give me other Temple of Doom thoughts because I'm feeling us all be like, eh, can we just Talk about other stuff. Like I am feeling us already hitting you know, dry ground on our Temple of Doom. Like dig, like that's a bad metaphor. You know what I'm trying to say?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I'm sorry.

[David Sims]

I'm kind of like eh.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm scrubbing through the movie here. Hold on.

[David Sims]

You know like I think the rope bridge scene is really fun.

[Olivia Craighead]

I do too.

[David Sims]

I think Aamrish Puri as Puri as Mola Ram. It's an incredibly one note performance. He's one of the most famous Bollywood like villain actors of all time. He's got theatricality and presence.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think he looks cool. I think he has a great face. I like when Harrison Ford is possessed and then becomes unpossessed and winks at short round as he's saving him because he's fucking hot. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

What do we think about when Willie and Indiana are like gonna hook up but then they keep like being annoying to each other?

[David Sims]

That should be more fun. I know. Like really should. It should. That should.

[Olivia Craighead]

The whole like the like 5 minutes thing is fun on paper. And then he gets attacked and she's like, he's not coming over.

[David Sims]

Right. That should be like a fun screwball sequence in the middle. Like it's like. It's a different kind of action sequence. It's a romantic action sequence. We're having fun and instead it feels. I mean she's kind of. You're just kind of a little annoyed with her.

[Olivia Craighead]

Not to be cinema sins about it. Why is she wearing normal Patrick pajamas?

[David Sims]

Interesting.

[Olivia Craighead]

She's wearing like a bathrobe and normal pajamas when she was in like American Apparel sweats.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. It's also weird in. She's in that sort of like extravagant dress that they give her. Right?

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Then she changes into like her jammies.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And then when they're in the temple.

[Olivia Craighead]

She'S back in a nice dress.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Do you guys like the evil little prince?

[Olivia Craighead]

No. It makes me sad.

[David Sims]

Me too. Kind of a bummer.

[Olivia Craighead]

Makes me sad. At one point. Point he's whipping short round and I don't like to see that.

[David Sims]

Short round's so great though. What a cutie pie. He's just so. He's so charming.

[Griffin Newman]

This is kind of an interesting quote from Spielberg.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

He said, I think Temple of Doom was ahead of its time for my own sensibility. And exactly right on schedule for George's. George was going through a dark period. He certainly inspired Kirschner shoot a very dark second act in the first Star Wars. He wanted the second Indiana Jones to Be very, very dark. And I wasn't there. I'm certainly there now in my filmmaking.

[David Sims]

That makes sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Probably witnessed ever since Schindler's List. Before that, it was a bit of a struggle against common sense to go as dark as we did.

[David Sims]

What's weird about that?

[Griffin Newman]

Goes dark on the next movie.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then stays there.

[David Sims]

Wait, and then. Sorry, he goes dark on which movie?

[Griffin Newman]

On the next film's Color Purple.

[David Sims]

Oh, oh, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But no, and the film after that's Empire of the Sun.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I feel like what he's saying post Schindler is, you know, like this early 2000s Spielberg where he's still making rip roaring adventures like Minority Report or whatever, but it's much darker, much more cynical tone and all that. But then he makes Crystal Skull, which is not like that.

[Griffin Newman]

No Crystal Skull.

[David Sims]

Honestly, I like a lot of that movie more than some. But like, can't pick a tone really.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

And like kind of has a lot of nostalgia stuff and it's kind of about how you can't, you know, this is my recreate, old glories and all.

[Griffin Newman]

With Ready Player One as well. David Kumhol's favorite movie of all time.

[David Sims]

Good movie. Agree.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. My, I feel this issue with Ready Player One as well, which it's like Spielberg doing an impression of himself being like, wouldn't it be fun to do one of the fun ones again? And this feels like he's in a mode where he wants to make a fun one again and he's being pushed into something darker. Then he spends his next like four or five years trying to make darker, more grown up movies about serious things. And people at the time are like, he's like a little kid. What is it? He doesn't have an adult understanding of this stuff. He's not there. And Schindler was the first time that I think people were like, he's processing events like an adult. He is making movies about serious subject matter with a proper sense of like, like weight and maturity.

[Olivia Craighead]

The movie does kind of feel like what Like a little kid playing dress up to be like dark and spooky. Like, it doesn't like when we talk about it being like a dark movie. It's like, it's not like Indiana Jones is like going through personal torment or anything. He's not. It's just like there's some dark and spooky shit happening underground.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Olivia Craighead]

And like it's kind of scary if you're eight.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Olivia Craighead]

And then so I, I, I, it's.

[Griffin Newman]

Also like asking a small child, like, what's the scariest thing that could ever happen. They're like, I don't know, your heart.

[Olivia Craighead]

And then you get pushed into a.

[David Sims]

Pit of work and a girl is.

[Olivia Craighead]

Screaming and there's bugs and you cut a snake open and there's more snakes.

[Griffin Newman]

This is my problem with the, like, it's so dark. It's such a dark movie. And I'm like, scary things happen in it. I don't think it's like a dark movie. Text dark.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's not a dark movie in the way that, like, Schindler's List is a dark movie.

[Griffin Newman]

But even like, in the way that, like, dark popcorn sequels are. That I like, that are like. And this movie deals with some up psychology.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And audiences weren't ready for it.

[David Sims]

I also feel like every Indiana Jones movie we'll see about Last Crusade, but usually the tone is kind of Spielberg being like, look, George, this is George's thing. And later it becomes like, this is George and Harris Harrison's thing. And I want to make a good movie and I'm here, but I'm a little bit like, working with them versus, like, all his other projects. And so I feel like when the movies don't work, he kind of is like, well, you know, that was George's idea.

[Griffin Newman]

It's what I find so fascinating about Tintin is Tintin feels like him being burned by like, George is giving me bad things now.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

So what if I treat Urge as my George?

[David Sims]

Right. What if I do a Tintinny like.

[Griffin Newman]

Indiana and that movie weirdly feels like a for hire movie for him. But him being excited that he's starting with good material, real.

[David Sims]

I wish someone would make another Tintinn, have it be live action.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, you don't want to do it?

[David Sims]

Not really. I mean, I would go for that if that's what's happening.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I kind. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

It is just weird that it's been like a casual 12 year since Tintin.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that right? Was it 2012?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Or 2011, I think. Yeah. Peter Jackson's too busy sifting through, you know, 800 hours of Beatles sessions or.

[Griffin Newman]

Whatever, but he's about to find something really good.

[David Sims]

Can they look more like jelly?

[Griffin Newman]

It is fascinating to be like, does that guy ever make a scripted fictional film again?

[Olivia Craighead]

I don't think he wants to, no.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's just funny that it might truly never happen again.

[David Sims]

Well, we should do them on the podcast.

[Ben Hosley]

Here's a question.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

What do these stones do?

[David Sims]

They're. They're. Seems like they just stones.

[Ben Hosley]

They just light up the stones.

[David Sims]

Goal.

[Ben Hosley]

It seems like.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think they do extreme well. Okay, here is again, another issue is that it's like the Ark of the Covenant. I'm like, I get it. I get what this thing is. They put the Ten Commandments in it. Like, that's crazy. Last Crusade. It's the Holy Grail. I get it. I get what that is. I got the same question as Ben. I'm like, what's up with these stones?

[David Sims]

They are, you know, it's a real thing from, you know, Hindu, literally like mysticism and you know, they're. I not an expert on despite in the seventh grade doing a 40 page project on Hinduism that I got a very good grade on.

[Olivia Craighead]

They do a 40 page project in.

[Griffin Newman]

The history of this podcast when people brag about how good their papers definitely.

[David Sims]

Never get in trouble. No, we had to do a project. You don't want that religion for my religious education class in the. What you would think of as the seventh grade, year eight.

[Olivia Craighead]

What do you would think that was.

[David Sims]

What Americans would call seventh grade? But, but it, it is a. You know, they're. They're working with real, you know, sort of mythos like too, you know, and then just turning it into weird Indiana Jones magic shit.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree with you that it's like probably helpful that the first two movies are dealing with like biblical north west.

[Olivia Craighead]

Western things for the.

[Griffin Newman]

I understand this is a very western viewpoint for western movies primarily made for Westerners, but.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah, well, I mean, what kind of archaeology. It's not like, well, the argument of like all of them.

[David Sims]

Well, if you're going to come back at me with like, well, no, it's good that Indiana Jones like explored like Hindu Hinduism and stuff. It's like, no, it's not. Because this movie is like very simplistic and kind of racist. Everyone was kind of mad about that. This village is basically theory.

[Griffin Newman]

This stone is sacred to us. It like keeps us balanced. It was stolen by the Thuggees. They're doing something bad with it. Can you go find it? Right, right. And then he goes and finds it and brings it back and he's like, they were indeed doing real bad shit with it. Here are all the stones.

[Olivia Craighead]

I do like when the kids all come running back and like the village is now very verdant and beautiful and sunny.

[Griffin Newman]

I do feel like you'd rather the story be that like Brody says. And I know I'm just harping for my man Dan.

[David Sims]

Home, Dan home.

[Griffin Newman]

But that Brody's like, I got a great lead on these stones. And he goes to find the stones and he wants them to be in a museum. And then this village is like, these stones mean something to us.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And he has the growth of being like, the stone should stay here. It feels a little weird to have it be like kind of Indiana Jones for hire. Can you do this mission for us? But also the, the bad things that are happening are more about the thuggies being shitty than the power of the stones.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, because here's the thing too, with the kids we've mentioned the, the. The child slave. Slaves.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Who are mining for the other two missing stones.

[Olivia Craighead]

Why?

[Ben Hosley]

Why, why Kids?

[David Sims]

They're. They're.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, get adults.

[Olivia Craighead]

You're just saying, look, they don't labor.

[Ben Hosley]

It makes no sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. They're bad people.

[David Sims]

And that's.

[Griffin Newman]

And they're bad businessmen.

[Ben Hosley]

And they're bad businessmen.

[Griffin Newman]

Their employee hiring practices are terrible. They should try. Indeed.

[Ben Hosley]

It's just. Yeah, it's not. It doesn't make sense to me. But again, it's just a silly adventure. I understand that, but I, I agree with you.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think up. This is another thing that's dumb about this movie being a quiet prequel. All is that it does feel like there's something profound in Raiders to the arc of indie being like, supernatural isn't real. What are you talking about?

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And then she's the face of God and he's a little changed and the movie ends and this movie is like, oh, by the way, like two years early, Indiana Jones got possessed by a stone.

[Olivia Craighead]

That is such a good point.

[Griffin Newman]

But it like wasn't in the Bible, so he didn't take it seriously. Right. Like his whole posture in Raiders is like, by the way, these are objects, they hold no power. I just like collecting things.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, it was possessed by blood, I get it. But yeah, that came out of a dead man's head.

[Olivia Craighead]

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[Griffin Newman]

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[Olivia Craighead]

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[Griffin Newman]

Plus you'll get up to $2 million.

[Olivia Craighead]

In identity theft coverage. All for just $39.99 for your first year. Visit McAfee.com, cancel anytime terms apply. I have a question, sort of to Spielberg related. Does he have Anything in the Hopper right now?

[Griffin Newman]

Great question.

[David Sims]

He's making this like sci fi movie, right?

[Griffin Newman]

It's called the dish.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Josh O'Connor, Emily Bl.

[Olivia Craighead]

He's snapping up great actors.

[Griffin Newman]

Wyatt Russell. It's like a. I love that. It's a beautiful cast.

[David Sims]

It's a great cast.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a. David.

[David Sims]

It's an event movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It will be released in IMAX. It is in some way relating to UFOs, extraterrestrial life.

[Olivia Craighead]

He's going back there.

[David Sims]

It sounds cool.

[Griffin Newman]

It's an original film. I'm all based on no pre existing material. But it is interesting that he has slowed way the down.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

He was always a one or two a year guy and when he was posting on one movie, he was prepping the next. You always knew like, here are the five movies he has in development and which one will he pick? And then in the post Fabelman's era, it's always been like, oh, he and Bradley Cooper are talking about doing Bullet.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But who knows what's gonna happen. And then this movie kind of came.

[Olivia Craighead]

Up out of nowhere, burned by the weird circumstances for like west side Story and the Fablements. Both kind of being two movies that I think are incredible, but for some reason amazing movies.

[David Sims]

And I do feel like he's like, I give you these jewels and you're.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of like, kind of like perfunctory passive aggressive Oscar nominations.

[David Sims]

Best Director.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

It's in quotes.

[Olivia Craighead]

Because I imagine if you're, if you're Steven Spielberg and you make the Fablemans, you're like, this is my entire chest for you. Like Temple of Doom, opening my heart and hand and handing it to you. And then people are like, like, what is this about the magic of the movies? It's like I would be a little pissed off.

[Griffin Newman]

It was kind of his Steve Jobs, Danny Bole episode. And people are like, he really wants to go back and try another thing. That's kind of a good rep. That is the reason I think people were like, is this his last movie? He's got nothing in development. It feels like the ultimate statement. It's just an interesting place for him to be.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean he lost to Jane Campion and the Daniels.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't think he's like, you know, steamed that he didn't like get another Oscar.

[Olivia Craighead]

I don't even think it's about like the Oscars. I think just kind of like reception.

[David Sims]

It's just like, oh, they just made like $30 million, like favorite ones was just like on VOD.

[Griffin Newman]

After a month made like 60 domestic. And Bridge of Spies post made 70 or 80 domestic. Like, it's a real snapshot of how much adult film going culture changed over the pandemic shifting. Hopefully it's getting a little bit back.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But it did just feel like post made 81 insane.

[Olivia Craighead]

That's so insane.

[Griffin Newman]

And Bridge of Spies made 70 bridges.

[David Sims]

Spies made $1 billion. In my heart.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah. In my household, that movie has gone triple platinum.

[David Sims]

He's kind of cold. What else do you want to say about Temple of Doom before I make my point about its release and commercial success as I move on?

[Griffin Newman]

I want to say to finish this point was just that it felt like even when Spielberg would have whiffs or movies that did not totally connect with the public or the Oscars or whatever, there was like an undeniable event to a new Steven Spielberg film. And as you said, like, children just know that's the name of the person who makes movies. And even if I'm not seeing that one, I understand. It's a thing. It does feel like the post 2020 movies, there's just a sense of, like, what is that? In a way that there's no even importance placed on. Like, even, like Spielberg has a new film.

[David Sims]

That's Nolan now. Nolan just has that.

[Griffin Newman]

It is.

[Olivia Craighead]

But even, like, I feel like Killers of the Flower Moon had more thing of Martin. There's a Martin Scorsese movie out and it has Leonardo DiCaprio in it.

[Griffin Newman]

And like, I had this argument with Michael Tversky, friend of the podcast, great filmmaker. Yeah. Turn me on. Coming out sometime in 2025. Absolutely. But we were like, who are like, the four most important filmmakers in that sense, in that sort of like, cultural sense. And the argument they were posing to me was it was. It was Michael and our friend Jason Adam Katzen sign. And they were like, we want to see if you're going to leave Spielberg off the list as well.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And I was like, I think he's just not there anymore.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I think we're all angry that it feels like, who is it? I was like, I think it's kind of undeniably Nolan Scorsese. Gerwig, Peele.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah, that. I was going to say Gerwig and Peele.

[David Sims]

I think Peel is no question. And Gerwig, it's like, like, yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

See how those Chronicles of Narnia, that's.

[David Sims]

The only problem I have with Gerwig.

[Griffin Newman]

Gerwig and Peele, it's like they could lose it.

[David Sims]

They're not like, it's not that they could lose. It's like just Jordan Peele makes original movies that are a Jordan Peele movie. Gerwig. It's like she made a Barbie movie. Now she's making a Narnia movie. I do think people are very interested in what she does but there's a little less of that and you almost wish there was more.

[Griffin Newman]

But I also think you can make a joke in a room full of 100 people about. About a Greta Gerwig movie or a Jordan Peele movie and it immediately makes something. It makes sense in their mind. Scorsese still has that. That's the name you use for a serious movie. And even if something like Killers of the Flower Moon does not connect on the level everyone hoped that would show much more respect than Fabelman's or West side Story. And it felt like the public engaged with that movie way more it also.

[David Sims]

To be in its. It had Leonardo. Had Leonardo Kablat. No offense to him. Gabriel Lebel or Ansel L. Gore. Like you know where it's like it was Marty and Leo. It was this big American ep.

[Griffin Newman]

Like if Spielberg makes another Tom Cruise movie if they re team again.

[David Sims]

That'd be fun.

[Griffin Newman]

It'd be fun. And who knows if that would like send the shockwaves. But. But it is interesting that I'm like I would argue there's a certain like there's more around the idea of a new Denis Villeneuve movie than there is maybe around Spielberg right now.

[David Sims]

I think Denis getting close. He's got to sort of finish his dunes and then. Then he'll be there.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Scorsese's the only elder statesman whose like there still.

[David Sims]

But will he make another movie? Probably. Will it be a big movie? Maybe not like maybe it'll be something smaller.

[Griffin Newman]

He's certainly talking in like a. In wind down mode.

[Olivia Craighead]

Did you guys know that Francis Ford Coppola wants to is making a musical next year?

[David Sims]

He's making. He's adapting. Funny. Very funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you.

[David Sims]

He's adapting Glimpses of the Moon or whatever. I mean he's whatever. Is there a point? And I enjoyed Megalopolis a lot and I'm really happy that I got to see that it off. It's like the 30 rock where they. Where they tell Tracy he's going to the moon. Like Francis for is just on his like they'll do this. Everyone's like yeah we're going to fill this and everything.

[Griffin Newman]

Second Tracy reference in one episode these rocks.

[David Sims]

Is there anything else say about Temple of Doom.

[Griffin Newman]

Just. I'm sc.

[David Sims]

Throwing this challenge at you guys cuz I think. All right, I'm going to make my.

[Olivia Craighead]

Oh, sorry. Go ahead. The movie I was thinking about a bit when I watched this movie was a shared favorite of yours and mine, which is Tenet, because that is a movie where I think cowboy shit. Even if you're like, this plot makes no sense to me and I hate it. Which I disagree with, obviously. But of course, the set pieces.

[David Sims]

He ordered his hot sauce a half hour ago.

[Olivia Craighead]

The set pieces are awesome. And so the set pieces are mostly a guy being like, I want to do something really fucking cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Olivia Craighead]

And you're going to watch that. And I actually kind of. Whatever else is going on doesn't matter. Like in this one, it's the mine cart and it's like, that is cool as shit. In Tenet, it's kind of like all of it, but, like, look at them on this cool, rich person.

[David Sims]

But Tenet is the number one where you're just like. Even if you don't. If you can do whatever you want with Tenet, but if you're just like, I'm just gonna love the vibes and not think about anything, you can have an amazing time with Tenet.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think Tenet would have been received differently if it were an Inception sequel. Like, he could have very easily made it Inception 2. This time it's time or fucking whatever you.

[David Sims]

This time it's backwards.

[Griffin Newman]

Even when the first Tenet trailer came out and it was like, it's time for a new protagonist and it was a mystery box, there were some people being like, is this weird sideways Inception universe? It has a similar vibe. I think Tenet would have been judged more harshly if it was like, oh, so it's like it's Inception without the emotional arc. It doesn't have the missing kids.

[David Sims]

It's a pretty great emotional arc.

[Griffin Newman]

It's about two boys in a different way.

[David Sims]

Tenet is the best. She's thinking about Tenet right now.

[Griffin Newman]

I texted this to Sims today and he didn't respond because I think I text in one of our group texts. This was a post in the blank check subreddit. A subreddit, by the way.

[David Sims]

Highest grossing Hollywood original live action. But this is.

[Olivia Craighead]

What does that mean exactly?

[David Sims]

This shit starts to get annoying for me because the number one thing that. And I've already said this to you, is like, Oppenheimer counts as original. That people are like, oh, Hollywood doesn't make any original. And I'm like making a movie about a guy who existed.

[Olivia Craighead]

That's not IP making a movie based on, like, you can't be like, oh, well, it had the often hybrid fiction bio biography.

[Griffin Newman]

It's based on a book that James woods recommended. That's not nothing.

[Olivia Craighead]

That's such a good, fun fact about.

[Griffin Newman]

It's actually the best. You know what? It's the reason I love the movie. It's my favorite part. No, I sent David this thing like a couple weeks ago that was referencing that Elemental is the highest grossing original film of the post pandemic era.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And David pushed back on that.

[David Sims]

I'm like, really? That's Oppenheimer. But then. Right, but then the. You sent as well, where it's like the. All the caveats of like, Hollywood live action. Where I'm like, right, because we're not talking about Chinese movies, of which there are many that have made way more money than any of these Hollywood movies.

[Griffin Newman]

By the way, what's the other thing we're not talking about?

[David Sims]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

Everything everywhere, all at once. Which outgrows Tenet did it.

[David Sims]

Maybe not domestic, but not globally.

[Griffin Newman]

But this quote was domestic, if I'm not mistaken.

[David Sims]

Oh, I. I don't know. I. I can't remember.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me. Let me compare.

[David Sims]

But, like, that's no fair because Tenet came out when theaters were closed.

[Olivia Craighead]

Didn't Tenant come out in, like, October of 2020? That was the point.

[Griffin Newman]

The point was like, oh, it's a little bleak that Tenet in the most compromised, stressed, barely reopened theatrical landscape still has hit a number that nothing else has hit. Why am I bringing this up?

[David Sims]

Because that's going by its global performance. It's going by worldwide. It's going by.

[Griffin Newman]

There's something a little tempting about Dish where I'm like, Next year there's a Steven Spielberg UFO. I'm. Is it next year or 26?

[David Sims]

I think Dish might be 26. But next year we've got a new Coogler movie. We've got Jordan Peele coming. We've got.

[Olivia Craighead]

I think it's like. I think it's kind of like the. The strike backlog is coming out.

[Griffin Newman]

Little bit of that, a little bit of delayed Oppenheimer. Like, do people actually want to see new shit?

[David Sims]

And a little bit of filmmaker Craven the Hunter is really the end of, like, Hollywood being like, can we sell you any old shit?

[Griffin Newman]

It feels like the end of the comic book thing where it's like, any defense. It was shot in 1972.

[David Sims]

Exactly. But, like, where it's like, next year we have Superman and Fantastic Four. It's not like we don't have comic book movies, but it feels a little slower and a little bit more like, do you like Superman?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you're forgetting we have something else.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Without the mustache. No, but there's something too. Like the two big superhero movies next year are the original DC character and the original Marvel characters.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like the most totemic, early nostalgic. Not even nostalgic.

[David Sims]

And both of those feel like projects, if they flop, maybe it's time to start packing things up.

[Olivia Craighead]

I also, I also think that in the last they won't. Yeah, there was Tenet IMAX re release which I went to and had an incredible time at. My boyfriend said, you're the only person who brought a boy to this instead of the other way around.

[David Sims]

Your boyfriend and I, we vibe on like Master Command. Like there were a lot of shared.

[Griffin Newman]

Taste, but sometimes I really thought we bond on masturbating. I'm not even joking. I thought that's what you were going to say and I was shocked it was going in that direction. Olivia, can you Please pass along 1,000,000 comedy points to your boyfriend?

[Olivia Craighead]

Tenant re release and I IMAX made a decent amount of money. Interstellar is crushing it.

[Griffin Newman]

The Interstellar one.

[Olivia Craighead]

I'm just saying that people have. Maybe it's just for Nolan, but people like seeing these big, bold, original, great looking movies on a big ass screen.

[Griffin Newman]

That just happened. Coraline, which has been re released every year this year made like $30 million.

[David Sims]

It made a lot of money. I mean that's of course got, you know, kid factor, but. Yes, absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

But they've been re releasing it every year and every year making the release wider and longer and it keeps making more money. Like there is like people like when.

[Olivia Craighead]

Movies are cool and good. Can you imagine also what the fucking.

[Griffin Newman]

Film scene was like in the 70s and the 80s where it was like there was a balance of the classics coming back to theaters and people would go back to theaters to see them again. Star wars was like re released every year for a long time. You know, it was like a healthy part of distribution on this. Yes.

[David Sims]

Temple of Doom. As I bring us to the box office game. This movie came out in 1984 and was a hit. It got, I would say, mixed reviews, sure. But it was the highest first weekend of 1984, in opening weekend of 1984 and it would made $180 million. So it was the third highest grosser at the US box office behind what?

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, 1984. 1984. It's not. It's not Rocky 4, is it?

[David Sims]

No, it's two movies we've covered on this show.

[Griffin Newman]

It's two movies we've covered on this show.

[David Sims]

One main and one Patreon.

[Griffin Newman]

One main and one Patreon. The top two films of the year.

[David Sims]

Movies you love.

[Griffin Newman]

One main and one Patreon. They're movies that I love.

[David Sims]

All right, well, this is taking too long.

[Griffin Newman]

We're doing good on time.

[David Sims]

No, we got to go.

[Griffin Newman]

We're doing good on time. Time. David. Give me a look and acknowledge that we're doing pretty good on time.

[David Sims]

Cuz I'm. Huh. It's me trying to.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Is the number one film the main feeder? The Patreon.

[David Sims]

Oh, God, the Patreon.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's not Star Trek. No, it's the Patreon.

[David Sims]

Come on. You love this movie. It's a huge Griffin movie. Start of a franchise that continues to this day.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not the Terminator. No, it's not.

[David Sims]

Had a great release this year. Here it had a slightly sarcastic.

[Griffin Newman]

There was a bad one this year.

[David Sims]

I thought it was okay.

[Griffin Newman]

You thought it was.

[David Sims]

A lot of people hated it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. How did I feel about it?

[David Sims]

You thought it was okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I thought it was.

[David Sims]

Oh, you thought it was better than the Prior one, which we both hated, right?

[Griffin Newman]

It's not Alien.

[David Sims]

No. Come on. Griffin. Griffin, Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

What's not Toy Story? No.

[David Sims]

What's the other one?

[Griffin Newman]

What's the other one? Yeah, it's not RoboCop. No, it's only one of those for kids. For kids.

[David Sims]

Kids and grownups.

[Griffin Newman]

For kids and grown ups. You gotta give me something here.

[David Sims]

Both of these star two of your favorite.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, it's a Ghostbusters movie. It's the movie Ghostbusters. It's 1984. It's the movie Ghostbusters.

[David Sims]

And what's the other one?

[Griffin Newman]

And then is Gremlins Number two.

[David Sims]

No, come on.

[Griffin Newman]

The other one, which we've covered on main feed.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not a franchise.

[David Sims]

Yes, it is. Start up a franchise. They made another one this year. They made a fucking like a sequel to it this year. Long dormant. It's another huge Griffin movie. Huge Griffin star.

[Griffin Newman]

And did I not like the novel?

[David Sims]

We thought it was okay. It was on fucking Netflix. What are you supposed to do?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, wow. You know what? I liked it quite a bit.

[David Sims]

I did too.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's the second best.

[David Sims]

Yeah, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

But I don't like two or three very much.

[David Sims]

You don't like two? I Like two.

[Griffin Newman]

Two looks good. It is Beverly Hills comedy.

[David Sims]

So here's the thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It feels a little bit to me. Like those are a new kind of movie now. The 80s are huge.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Our movies are going to be a little snarkier. They're going to be comic.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's say this.

[David Sims]

They're going to be action packed.

[Griffin Newman]

Those movies are also edgier than Temple of Doom.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

They are quote unquote, dark.

[David Sims]

Ghost fellatio.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Cross bananas in tailpipes.

[Griffin Newman]

The darkest shit among the. But those are movies with like a little grown up. Yep.

[David Sims]

And like Temple of Doom is a little bit like Indiana Jones. And it's like Kate Cash are going. And everyone's like, eh. And Bill Murray are cooler than us.

[Olivia Craighead]

The thing that it's referencing is for old people.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. But also a weird case of it being like too scary for children and too babyish for grownups at the same time. Like you're like adding a kid.

[Olivia Craighead]

And it's the red one problem.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the red one problem.

[David Sims]

And that movie had no other problems.

[Griffin Newman]

Olivia, have you seen Red One?

[Olivia Craighead]

No, but I've, you know, I'm gonna watch it now.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't say this lightly. It's one of the worst things to ever happen in this country.

[Olivia Craighead]

I did enjoy again, shout out to the big Picture, the episode where Sean was like, who is this for?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, I.

[Griffin Newman]

What is the point?

[David Sims]

I do think it's a true. Who. I haven't seen it yet, but it strikes me as real. Who is this for?

[Griffin Newman]

It's the ultimate. It's the most extreme example of this thing where you're like. Half of the movie is designed to be boring, off putting or scary to children. And the other half of it is such pure baby that no grown up.

[David Sims]

It's like the Rock is like, what if I could do a Christmas movie but like for kids, but then I could advertise on like Super Bowl Sunday and it's just like, that's for nobody.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the most algorithmic. Like let's put all the pieces people like in movies. And all those pieces are fighting each other with knives.

[David Sims]

This movie came out Memorial Day weekend, 1984.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Big opening weekend, but a little JJ points out a little fudgy because it had like a five day, you know, whatever they, you know, they. Back in the day, that was frowned.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. We were doing the year. We weren't even doing the weekend.

[David Sims]

This is the week.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the weekend.

[David Sims]

Number one at the box office, though. Indiana Jones at The Temple of Doom.

[Griffin Newman]

And what was the number?

[David Sims]

33.

[Griffin Newman]

33. Okay.

[David Sims]

At the time, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's a lot of money.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm excited to do eight more than the box.

[David Sims]

Watch it.

[Griffin Newman]

Last Crusade. Cuz that's a weekend where records keep getting broken.

[David Sims]

Fair enough.

[Griffin Newman]

Where it's Last Crusade, Batman and Ghostbusters 2. I think break the records.

[David Sims]

That's a sign of how things had changed. Because when you look at this one, you're seeing Indiana Jones and the Temple will do number one. Number two, it's a sports movie, but it's a movie for grownups. It's a movie I love.

[Griffin Newman]

Based on a true.

[David Sims]

Based on a true novel.

[Griffin Newman]

It's based on true novels.

[David Sims]

A novel.

[Griffin Newman]

It's based on a novel, but not based on a real athlete. It's. It's not the Natural, is it?

[David Sims]

It is the Natural.

[Griffin Newman]

It is the Natural.

[David Sims]

Barry Levinson's the Natural. A movie I adore. Have you ever seen the Natural?

[Olivia Craighead]

I've never seen the Natural.

[Griffin Newman]

Olivia.

[Olivia Craighead]

I love baseball movies.

[Griffin Newman]

The Crack of the Bat.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Has never.

[Olivia Craighead]

I did that baseball movie for Love of the Game with you guys.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. That's a movie about a magical bat.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

A movie I think rocks. A lot of people don't like it because it. It takes a movie. A book with a downbeat ending and. And flips it. I think that's the right.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm checking my notes here. The name for those people is Losers.

[David Sims]

Not. We'll maybe cover Levinson one day.

[Griffin Newman]

You were so rude to him last year. March Madness.

[David Sims]

Was I.

[Olivia Craighead]

Well, that's.

[David Sims]

I was like, he's not going to win.

[Griffin Newman]

We did our preview and you were like, vote for Barry Levinson if you like dumb and you're a idiot.

[Olivia Craighead]

You guys have to do Soderbergh before you do Levinson. If you're going to do a long.

[Griffin Newman]

One, take that long.

[David Sims]

Or Clint.

[Olivia Craighead]

They split it up, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number three at the box.

[Griffin Newman]

Come. We did the split up and it's took us seven years to get back around.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's nice that you're kind of like looping back after a long time.

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check. Ten. A decade of dreams.

[David Sims]

I think with Clint it's. The problem is you have to do like four.

[Olivia Craighead]

Oh, Clint. Clint would be too much.

[David Sims]

I think it'd be so fun. There's just some point when we're like in our 40s where we're just like, this year is Clint. No further questions. We're just. The whole year is him. If you don't like It. Go eat some cheese. I don't care.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I say something? I've been holding back on saying this out loud, but I feel like I need to say it now. What? Our buddy Conor Ratliff made a very profound statement to me recently.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

But I was thinking the other day, I don't know which will end first, Blank check or the Tonight Show.

[Olivia Craighead]

Just the Tonight show, broadly, as a constitution.

[Griffin Newman]

He was like, that might go. Blank check's not going any off the air before Blank check. That was his point.

[David Sims]

And the Tonight show. There is the question of, like, when they're finally like, all right, enough with you, Fallon. Are they just kind of like, should we stop?

[Griffin Newman]

Like, right.

[David Sims]

Do they Maybe not out of embarrassment of being like, fallon can't be the guy who brought it to.

[Olivia Craighead]

But then it's like, who would even.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the bigger question too is, like, do the other shows end before.

[David Sims]

Fallon when it starts to fold in to just like. Yeah, it's really just one late night show at this point.

[Griffin Newman]

I think their dream would be we just outlast and we become the one stop shopping. And there's an ecosystem that can support one of your guests.

[David Sims]

Right. You need. Yeah, I don't know.

[Ben Hosley]

Rebrand as TikTok tonight.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait a second, wait a second.

[Olivia Craighead]

There's an idiot.

[Griffin Newman]

Hosted by Ben Hosley.

[Ben Hosley]

No, I don't know anything about social media.

[Olivia Craighead]

That's cool. That's actually awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what makes you cool.

[David Sims]

Number. Yeah. Because Stephen Colbert knows so much about stuff like it. Oh, I guess Fallon does. Did she see Fallon at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day, just out to lunch. You're just like, it's another. It's sort of like the same thing with the network shows where you're like, what? There's just some show called Eater and it's like CPS 8:30. And you're like, is anyone minding the store? Same with Big. Fallon's just kind of out there looking strung out.

[Griffin Newman]

Glenn Close. Glenn Close is the Pussy Eater. AP on Tuesdays on cbs.

[David Sims]

And like, no.

[Olivia Craighead]

And then a year later, there's like, Young Eater.

[David Sims]

Right? Exactly.

[Olivia Craighead]

Pussy Eater All.

[David Sims]

But you're just like. Like, in a way, the Tonight show ended years ago, right? It's like, nobody watches that anymore. And I know that's not true. I know people do watch it and it has YouTube clips and all that.

[Olivia Craighead]

You know, the Ton show is that just. Just like when you have the other guys who are doing it so much better than Fallon is, it's like, why would you, like, tonight Show.

[David Sims]

Let's not talk. I mean, when you have Seth, who is great, but like Seth like you, I almost just don't want him to have to deal with the Tonight Show. It's better that he just like he.

[Griffin Newman]

Show where he does his thing and once a month. Seth Meyers is like, so new thing. Our show no longer has chairs.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's true.

[David Sims]

Yeah. My. My. My clothes budget is gone, so I'll just be pixelated from now on. Number three at the box office that year, network TV is just weird. We're watching something die and like it. We understand why it's dying. We're not posing.

[Griffin Newman]

To me that way was weird where I was like, right. Because we don't have like a fucking operating budget like the Tonight show show, where at some point it becomes.

[Olivia Craighead]

I mean, I think that's also just like. I feel like every week a clip from like Conan's podcast goes viral and it's like, yeah. And it's like, well, this is all you really need. If you're as talented as Conan, you don't need the whole thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Hundreds years of his show on television, he was still doing good shit and it rarely caught fire.

[David Sims]

But I would have great days. And we talked about this. We were just talking about this on the Doughboys thread, like, of just being like, I'm going to watch every clueless gamer and have a great time. I'm going to watch every Jordan Schlansky bit and have a great time. Harrison's Ford smashing the Millennium Falcon in front of Jordan. That's so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

One of the funniest things of all time.

[David Sims]

The funniest in the world.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. If anyone has choice about that. Are you familiar with that segment? Yes.

[Olivia Craighead]

I'm obsessed. We went through like a big phase in my house of watching all the Jordan Sl.

[Griffin Newman]

You got to do a yearly Schlansky watch.

[David Sims]

Did you watch the po. Did you listen to the podcast where it's just him and Conan?

[Griffin Newman]

I haven't yet. I've been. I've been saving it.

[David Sims]

It's one of those things where you're immediately like, this isn't a bit that really just pissy.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you seen the segment?

[Ben Hosley]

No, I have not.

[Griffin Newman]

They do the thing where, like, when Harrison Ford came out, because Schlansky is such a big Star wars and Indiana Jones fan would come out and like, grill Harrison Ford on some question about the makeup of the whip.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And being like, in the second film the whip was like this, and in the third film it was like this. So which. And Then Harrison Ford would just look at the camera and go, who gives a. Or something like that.

[David Sims]

You've coded like.

[Griffin Newman]

And they stamp a nerd thing on Schlansky's forehead. And it was great. So when Force Awakens came out, he came in, he was like, we have someone on staff here. He loves you. He wants to show you something. He brings out the deluxe, most ultimate LEGO Millennium Falcon and was like, this cost $800. It took me nine months to construct. It's like 5 million pieces. And I was wondering if you can sign it. And he's like, absolutely. And he takes it in his lap and you know where it's going. But Harrison Ford makes the choice rather than to just drop. Stop it. From his seated position on the floor, he flips it over.

[David Sims]

It's so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

He's, like looking at it and then.

[David Sims]

He goes, it's so funny. And Shalinsky is just one of those guys where you're like, he. I understand he's quote unquote, playing it straight, but it just seems so.

[Griffin Newman]

It hurts him.

[David Sims]

Yes, it really hurt him. Anyway, number three at the box office is a dancing movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it Lombata?

[David Sims]

Nope.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Is it the other one?

[David Sims]

What's the other one?

[Ben Hosley]

Is it one of the breaking.

[Griffin Newman]

It is Breaking two. Oh, it's just breaking. It's just breaking.

[David Sims]

Just breaking.

[Griffin Newman]

The guarantor for Breaking two.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Electric Pokemon, starring Shabadu, of course, and Boogaloo. I'm not joking. These are the names of the dancers.

[Griffin Newman]

Probably their best films.

[David Sims]

I have never seen Breakin. I feel like now for our generation that didn't grow up watching movies in the 80s, it's only famous for the sequels, having a hilarious. His title.

[Olivia Craighead]

Wait, it stars Boogaloo.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

So he's the one that gets electric.

[David Sims]

I assume in the second movie he gets plugged in Olivia.

[Griffin Newman]

That's incredible.

[Olivia Craighead]

At the Newport.

[Griffin Newman]

Traitor.

[David Sims]

You're supposed to do analog dancing. Oh, God. Have you seen Complete Unknown?

[Olivia Craighead]

Not yet. I'm excited to.

[David Sims]

So hard. It's so good. You. You should watch it next to Jordan hoffman. That's like 40x complete unknown. Just him being like, that's Dave Van Ronk. And I'm like, yeah, I know Jordan. He's like number four at the box office. And this is interesting. Griffin is an Indiana Jones type movie that we've covered on this podcast.

[Olivia Craighead]

Is it Romancing the Stone?

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Olivia Craighead]

I was thinking about that the whole time I was watching this.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I imagine a lot of people are walking on Temple of Doom being like, you know what? I had more fun like 3 weeks ago with Romancing the Stone.

[Griffin Newman]

Kathleen Turner doing a much better version of a Willie Scott type thing. Yeah, that's crazy. They were out the same. That's.

[David Sims]

Isn't that crazy?

[Griffin Newman]

That's crazy.

[David Sims]

And of course, Danny DeVito literally in it after Supposed to be in Raiders.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. That kind of blessed my mind.

[David Sims]

Number five at the box office is an iconic teen film with. Yeah, you know that. That's really good.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it a Hughes?

[David Sims]

It's a huge.

[Olivia Craighead]

Is it the Breakfast Club?

[David Sims]

No, it. And it has. It has one hugely problematic element that doesn't really work.

[Griffin Newman]

Sixteen Candles. This is. Yeah. The first big one.

[David Sims]

And it has kind of a doofy guy, you know, But I like the doofy guy.

[Griffin Newman]

He's all right. I also like that he just like, never acted again. Yeah, he's just like, what, Jake Ryan? Yeah.

[David Sims]

Pretty hot. But I love Sixteen Candles, cuz. Molly Ringwald's so good in it. And like the family stuff is good. It's a good movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It must be a real stick in the mud about the idea of doing Hughes.

[David Sims]

Oh, just because I push it.

[Griffin Newman]

And you'd push back.

[David Sims]

You'd push back.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not that many, though, that he only directed.

[David Sims]

What is it? Let's see. My whole problem is that I hate Ferris Bueller.

[Olivia Craighead]

You hate Ferris Bueller?

[David Sims]

He's such a.

[Griffin Newman]

You're one of those.

[Olivia Craighead]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

16K.

[David Sims]

I mean, I love, love the movie about his sister that exists in my mind.

[Griffin Newman]

Breakfast Club, Weird Science, Ferris Bueller.

[David Sims]

Wait, wait, it's Sixteen Candles, Breakfast Club. Yeah. Weird Science, Ferris Bueller. Planes, Trains and Automobiles. Great movie. She's having a baby.

[Griffin Newman]

Curly Sue.

[David Sims]

Uncle.

[Griffin Newman]

Uncle Buck.

[David Sims]

Curly sue and then Curly Sue.

[Griffin Newman]

Uncle Buck is one of my favorite movies.

[David Sims]

And my roommate Molly would have to be on the Uncle Buck episode.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

My former roommate. I mean, she doesn't live with me anymore. I got married.

[Griffin Newman]

She your wife? Yeah. I mean, Ben would go off on the Uncle Buck episode. My God, that's a funny. That's just two. That's just two months. That's just two months.

[David Sims]

Fine, let's do it. I don't know. We have to talk about Chicago a lot. Fran will be doing it.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Fran will have to be on one. Big Chicago. And Shannon will have to be on one.

[Griffin Newman]

Your ten Decade of Dreams.

[Olivia Craighead]

Shannon is in. Michael Shannon?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Big Chicago. Number six is the original Police Academy.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, okay.

[David Sims]

Number one. Number seven. The Drew Bar. Yeah. Go tell him, Grif.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I. I just. I couldn't stand by idly to me.

[David Sims]

Saying the word police.

[Griffin Newman]

People think these policemen know how to walk without slipping, without any hijinks. And that movie proves otherwise.

[Ben Hosley]

And can they make sound effects with their.

[David Sims]

I've always wondered, is there a cop who can make sound effects?

[Griffin Newman]

They only speak in full words.

[David Sims]

What if Eric Adams was like, great news. I'm reforming the nypd. I got Michael Winslow. He's gonna Zeus everything up.

[Griffin Newman]

I'd maybe vote for him.

[David Sims]

Eric Adams might have been out of office by the time this episode comes out.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah, he might get a pardon.

[David Sims]

25 is gonna suck so fast.

[Griffin Newman]

Decade of dreams.

[David Sims]

Number seven at the box office is Firestarter, which, you know, I've never seen.

[Griffin Newman]

I've never seen it either.

[David Sims]

Well, maybe we should watch it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. You want to light up, spark up. That's King's Things series.

[Olivia Craighead]

We could do something remade with Zac Efron.

[David Sims]

They sure did. Yeah. That was a real, like, even Peacock doesn't want you to see that one.

[Griffin Newman]

And John Carpenter did the score.

[David Sims]

I think you're right. With his son, Mark Lester movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number eight is Splash. A movie I've seen so many times as a kid.

[Griffin Newman]

I was just watching. I don't know what drove me there, but on YouTube, the side by side comparison of the splash theatrical versus the Disney plus Harry. Hair butt. Do you remember the hair?

[Olivia Craighead]

One of the funniest things that's ever happened. It's so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

It's so bad. Do you know about this, Ben?

[David Sims]

Yeah, they. We've definitely talked about the hair butt. All right.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know about the new scandal?

[David Sims]

Wait, what's the new scandal?

[Griffin Newman]

Shout Factory put Riddick out on 4K for the first time.

[David Sims]

I saw that. Yeah. Here's Daryl Hannah's hair butt. Whoa, wait.

[Ben Hosley]

That's actually insane. That's so bad.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's in motion. It's worse. It's surprising because it was done very hastily. They just added an extra six inches of hair. Hair that looks like it was glued onto her butt cheeks and doesn't move properly. Riddick.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

A movie about a man whose actions I do not holistically endorse.

[David Sims]

No. He's a little problematic.

[Griffin Newman]

Could be a little bit of a cad, this guy.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a moment at the end of the film in which he squeezes Katie Sadoff's rear end and this 4K comes out and people are now up in arms.

[David Sims]

They've removed that.

[Griffin Newman]

The coolest, most chill, physical media subreddit. I have taken out my old copy, my Universal disc. I'VE compared both the theatrical and these.

[David Sims]

Are very gender balanced subreddits too. Right. Where it's like 50, 50, there is.

[Griffin Newman]

A premature fade out shout factory must release the butt cut and explain what happened. And it's now this thing where half the people are getting really angry about, like film censorship and they need to be explicit in these things and preservation is important. And the other half of the people are like, it's really funny that you notice this. It's funny that you notice this and that you took the time to compare four versions of the movie and are getting up in arms about Riddick squeezing a butt one time.

[David Sims]

Number nine at the box office, Footloose.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure. Two dancing movies in the top ten.

[David Sims]

It was hot. And number ten, Gray Stroke. The Legend of Tarzan and the Apes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Which is the one with Christopher Lambert. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. We could do a little Tarzan series.

[David Sims]

That might get repetitive. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, think of all the yelling bits we do.

[David Sims]

Which caught a Oscar nom for. Well, for now, Fritardson.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Is that. It got like an old legend Oscar.

[Griffin Newman]

I got a makeup nom. Sure. The. The gorilla works pretty good in that film.

[David Sims]

You're right. Rick Baker.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, I know some of these things.

[David Sims]

You certainly know about Rick Baker. But he lost to Amadeus, so you. Baker.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure.

[David Sims]

Do you think he was like Sally Arie in the stands?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, well, the. Yeah, he also sat in the stands wearing old age makeup.

[David Sims]

I can do better.

[Griffin Newman]

What. What were. Give me the rundown of the Temple of Doom Oscar nominations. It did get a visual effects, I think.

[David Sims]

I think it got only two. I will double check that. It got a best score nomination.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. You know, the score is.

[David Sims]

It's fantastic.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll say this for how much I'm like sitting there and the existence of Willie Scott is irking me at every moment. Close my eyes, I listen to that score. I'm heavy.

[David Sims]

It's just.

[Olivia Craighead]

I'm sure you guys talked about it on Raiders, but Dun Dun Dun dun is like. It's like, wow, you're a genius. It's like the most brilliant thing ever. And it's not like that complex, but it is just like, oh, that's. I can't believe no one thought of that.

[Griffin Newman]

But then like Short rounds theme in this is like so lush and beautiful.

[David Sims]

And magic of Williams. Right. As you realize, like, oh, yeah. He actually just churned out like six iconic brilliant things.

[Griffin Newman]

This thing watching Jaws where it's like, oh, right. The brilliance of just being two notes. And then you listen to Jaws.

[Olivia Craighead]

The rest of it is like.

[Griffin Newman]

He's like the most beautiful, sweeping orca theme.

[Olivia Craighead]

He's incredible with the theme.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And he'll come up with, like nine bangers in one score.

[David Sims]

It lost best score to A Passage to India. Marie Shar. I don't actually know that score. I assume it's very big. And David Ley. Randy Newman nominated for the Natural there kind of insane. He does not win. That is one of the most iconic pieces in movie.

[Griffin Newman]

He was one of the most losing.

[David Sims]

I know. I know. But it's like, why did he lose here?

[Griffin Newman]

No, I agree.

[David Sims]

He. Yeah. You want me to keep going?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, please.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He also lost her Toy Story.

[David Sims]

Well, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Can. I don't well, sure me.

[David Sims]

And it won visual visual effects over Ghostbusters and 2010.

[Ben Hosley]

Can I. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I thought you just.

[Griffin Newman]

Nominations.

[David Sims]

Only two.

[Griffin Newman]

Wild.

[David Sims]

I thought you just said, can I pitch a porn idea?

[Ben Hosley]

All right, so there's the guy.

[David Sims]

Indiana Jones.

[Olivia Craighead]

And then Temple of Poon.

[Griffin Newman]

Indiana bones.

[Olivia Craighead]

Indiana bones in the Temple of Poon.

[David Sims]

That's. That's how you make the big bucks in this series.

[Griffin Newman]

In her panty bones.

[David Sims]

All right, now we've gone too far.

[Griffin Newman]

And the temple of.

[David Sims]

Time to break for lunch.

[Ben Hosley]

A theme restaurant.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

About the career of John Williams.

[Griffin Newman]

Go.

[Olivia Craighead]

I'm listening.

[David Sims]

So not about my stomach. Just rumbling.

[Ben Hosley]

Showcases all of his different themes.

[David Sims]

And this translates to food how?

[Ben Hosley]

Hamburger, French fries.

[David Sims]

No. Is this just one of those classic Ben ideas where you're like, it doesn't make a lot of sense. You could do it, but I'm in. Griffin is on the floor. I just wanted to say that for the listener. Griffin is on the floor.

[Olivia Craighead]

How did you write that out?

[David Sims]

I don't know. For like, the waiter tells you. This poor waiter. Every time. You're like, hey, can I have a hamburger? And he's like, no. It's.

[Olivia Craighead]

It's like when there's something like. Yeah. When there's something crazy on the menu and you have to be. Be like, can I get the like, slap your mama. Tongue twister. Whatever. But it would instead be like, could I get the hamburger fries?

[David Sims]

Hamburger fries. How do you want that cooked? Medium rare.

[Griffin Newman]

I do not have the hubris to think that I can predict where Ben is ever going.

[David Sims]

Truly.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, doesn't make any.

[David Sims]

What did he just say? Doesn't make any sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Time. He is.

[Olivia Craighead]

No, but there's so many opt. More options we could go with.

[Griffin Newman]

Anytime. He is teeing a bit up. I. I sit back with humility and I go, I'm in His hands. I have no control over this. But, God, I was so confident that bon da da da was going to lead into something that starts with a ba or a da. No, I think he's surely not just going to take a different food item and break it into the rhythm of the theme. It'll be like, ba ba ba ba Bolognese.

[Ben Hosley]

We can't make the menu too challenging.

[Olivia Craighead]

No, but I think it's so brilliant because what are the rules?

[David Sims]

Sorry.

[Olivia Craighead]

You get brilliant because the themes are so recognizable that you could do like, dun dun dun dun dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun dun dun.

[Griffin Newman]

Chicken tender.

[David Sims]

Well, that was good, Ben, what do you think? I like it. All right, good. I just imagine some, like, Saudi financier where you're like, I need $800 million for a franchise across the world.

[Griffin Newman]

Big L's ears are burning.

[David Sims]

Hamburger fries. The guy's like security, just hammering that silent alarm.

[Griffin Newman]

I texted this to blank, though, but I had an incredible dream recently that the Time Square Planet Hollywood reopened. And every floor was a different property. And they were like. And we're doing TV now. And one floor was the Sopranos.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Full circle. But then it was like, here's the spider verse. Floor, floor. And like, the menus are different. The theming's crazy. But they weren't singing.

[Olivia Craighead]

That was. That's the flaw.

[Griffin Newman]

My brain couldn't think that.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You're that wide, right? Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. You couldn't turn off the dark.

[Griffin Newman]

I couldn't turn off the dark. Is that the end of the top 10?

[David Sims]

Yeah, that's it.

[Griffin Newman]

David, can you just tell me what the other films in the top five of the year for 84 were? Out of curiosity.

[David Sims]

Yeah. You're at 1984 domestic box office. So we have Ghostbusters, Beverly Hills Cop.

[Griffin Newman]

Indiana Jones at the top.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And then box office mojo is messy.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know what we're talking about. It's a great website. It works. It works properly.

[David Sims]

Numbers. Here we go.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Much better.

[David Sims]

Gremlins is number four.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

The only other 100 million grocer of.

[Griffin Newman]

The year was Gremlins.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Gremlins ended up at 151. Yeah.

[David Sims]

So that's crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

It was so big.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Number five is the Corruption. Karate Kid.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Number six is. We already mentioned it. And please get your rejoinder ready. Police Academy AAB. Number seven is Footloose.

[Griffin Newman]

Uhhuh.

[David Sims]

Number eight is Star Trek 3. The search for Spot Spock, Not Spot. Spot is under the rug. If I've read Spot, where's Spot? Many, many times. Or is he in the basket? I can't remember. Number nine is Romancing the Stone, and number 10 is. Is Pur Rain.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a pretty. That's a pretty fascinating snapshot. 10. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, it's a pretty good year.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's a lot of movies that got sequelized.

[Griffin Newman]

I was going to say. Yeah. Every one of those movies is either continuing a franchise or becomes some sort of.

[David Sims]

Except for Footloose.

[Griffin Newman]

Footloose gets a remake and a Broadway show it does much later, but it becomes a.

[David Sims]

And Purple Rain gets a sort of quasi sequel in a weird way.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Not a bad movie.

[Griffin Newman]

We talked about covering him. Maybe he'll be on March Madness again at this point. It'll be settled. I think.

[David Sims]

I think he will be right.

[Griffin Newman]

I think he will be right.

[David Sims]

The format we're going for.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the format we're going for. He'll be there. People will know. It's March. It's March. Yay. Olivia.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you so much for being in New York.

[Olivia Craighead]

I will move back to New York in a year and a half, but in the meantime, if you're blinky and you see me at the Elmwood reality Toe in Berkeley, California.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

Say hi.

[David Sims]

Oh, please do. Say and. And call in any burger reports, please, please.

[Olivia Craighead]

True. There aren't a lot of celebs in the East Bay.

[David Sims]

It's got to be one or two.

[Griffin Newman]

Couple trying to hide out.

[Olivia Craighead]

Boots. Riley lives in Oakland, so I'll probably see him at.

[David Sims]

Finally working on another movie, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything you want to plug?

[Olivia Craighead]

I [e-mail].

[Griffin Newman]

Hell, yeah.

[Olivia Craighead]

I'm the person who picks the essays. Just kidding.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I love the.

[David Sims]

I'm anonymous.

[Griffin Newman]

I love choosing the essays.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yes. I'm the one who. Everyone sends in their essays that I say. This one. No.

[Griffin Newman]

Anytime I read one, I go, well picked.

[Olivia Craighead]

I'm in the. I'm blogging every day at the Cut, so you can just type that into your phone and you'll find me. Fab.

[David Sims]

I gotta go make pasta.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah. I gotta go see a musical.

[David Sims]

Which one?

[Olivia Craighead]

Maybe Happy Ending. The Darren Criss one.

[David Sims]

No sense of if that's good or not.

[Olivia Craighead]

Neither do I. So I'm excited.

[Griffin Newman]

Pesto pasta?

[David Sims]

No, I'm making a ragu.

[Griffin Newman]

That feels like. Is that a recent shift?

[David Sims]

No, I mean, it's not for my daughter.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

She'll just.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not for your daughter?

[David Sims]

No, it's for everyone else. I mean, my daughter will. I'm sure. Eat Mac and cheese or pesto like she does every single night.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, so see, that's why I was guessing pesto, because.

[David Sims]

No, no, it's a fair guess. It's a fair guess.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you very much. Thank you all for listening. You have a deck. You have to.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm not talking about want to test your house. I'm talking about a creative baby for us walking away.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know what's going on. This is kind of a weird. Things have taken a temple, a doom turn.

[Olivia Craighead]

We got to get back above ground.

[Griffin Newman]

We got to get back above ground.

[Ben Hosley]

On the Patreon right now.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, we just recently did just yesterday analyze. No, we'll be doing.

[Ben Hosley]

We are now. We did our second entry in the Star Trek.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, the next Generation card era.

[Olivia Craighead]

Fun.

[Griffin Newman]

But we're including Galaxy Quest with that.

[Olivia Craighead]

I love that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a perfect movie. And I just found out that Ben has never seen it. We're gonna get a fresh on Mike first time.

[Olivia Craighead]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

You're gonna love it. I think it's gonna kind of blow his mind. Yeah, I told him it. It is one of the perfect.

[Olivia Craighead]

Alan Rickman is incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the thing is, every time I watch it, I'm like, who's my best supporting actor pick? And it changes every time.

[Olivia Craighead]

Yeah, Everyone is good in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone's great in that. It's incredible. Anyway, look forward to that.

[David Sims]

Hell yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

In April.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, that'll be April 1st.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that right?

[Ben Hosley]

April 21st.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

A little later also, then later this month, we'll do a Spielberg bonus episode about the Twilight Zone, the movie, as.

[Griffin Newman]

Well as only his segment. Right, but then his two amazing story segments, correct? Yes. Spielberg anthologies. Yeah. And tune in next next week for an episode on the Color Purple.

[Olivia Craighead]

A movie probably be just as goofy.

[Griffin Newman]

As this episode, I was gonna say.

[Olivia Craighead]

I imagine.

[Griffin Newman]

And you know what? You're allowed to make that joke, and I'm glad you did. Thank you all. And as always, Hamburger.

[Ben Hosley]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithey, research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.