Inside Llewyn Davis with Rachel Zegler

Summary

Blank Check Podcast: Inside Llewyn Davis (with Rachel Zegler)

Podcast: Blank Check with Griffin & David
Episode: Inside Llewyn Davis with Rachel Zegler
Date: November 2, 2025
Guest: Rachel Zegler
Theme: Coen Brothers Miniseries (“No Country Pod, Country for Old Cast”)

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Episode Overview

This episode features hosts Griffin Newman, David Sims, and producer Ben Hosley joined by actor and singer Rachel Zegler (plus her dog, Lenny, aka Leonard Bernstein Zegler) to discuss the Coen Brothers’ 2013 film Inside Llewyn Davis, which holds a special place as Rachel’s all-time favorite movie. The episode is rich in both analytical insight and personal reflection, covering everything from Oscar Isaac’s performance, the film’s cyclical narrative and musical soul, and the ways it resonates differently over time.

Zegler brings firsthand perspective as both a lifelong fan of the film and a working musician/actor, igniting a vibrant, personal, and frequently hilarious conversation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Allure of Oscar Isaac and Musical Authenticity

Timestamps: 01:39–06:11

• Oscar Isaac’s singing talent: The hosts and Zegler are in awe of Isaac’s vocals, noting how his rare decision to sing on film gives Inside Llewyn Davis unique “proprietary” power:
  • “It is disgusting.” – Rachel Zegler (01:41)
  • “I kind of respect it... once you’re known for singing, it’s all they want you to do.” – Rachel (03:28)
• The panel discusses other rare occasions Isaac sang on screen (Ten Years, theater work, but not Moon Knight) and muses on his versatility, singing and dancing (cf. Ex Machina’s dance).

Rachel Zegler’s Relationship with the Film

Timestamps: 11:15–23:07

• Zegler recounts seeing the movie as a young teen, relating viscerally as a “struggling musician… at 13” (19:54).
• She reveals re-watching it multiple times yearly, even ushering in a new year with it as comfort—sometimes “watching my favorite movie and crying” during emotional storms:
  • “It is a damp blanket of a movie.” – Griffin (23:07)
  • Rachel: “I watch it an embarrassing amount of times per year.” (22:25)

The Bleak Comfort of Cyclical Struggle

Timestamps: 23:30–24:50, 81:12–84:42

• The film’s “web of mistakes” and rhythms are likened to real-life creative loops; the feeling is comfort mixed with cringe as the viewer anticipates Llewyn’s next blunder.
  • “I would, like, grab my skull... Oh, fudge. He’s about to do the dumbest thing.” – Ben (23:43)
• They discuss the cyclical structure (film both opens and closes on Llewyn getting beaten), and if it’s a literal loop or echoes of repetitive struggle.
  • “Whether it’s God or the universe, you’re handed the same situation over and over again to see how much you’ve learned... the first step was not letting the cat out.” – Rachel (83:53)

“The Cat” and the Need for a Narrative Engine

Timestamps: 42:07–44:41

• The Coens added the cat because they feared the story had no plot drive; the animal becomes both literal and metaphorical:
  • “The cat is the only thing bigger than him... the only thing that supersedes his impulses.” – Ben (43:33)
  • “People think that it’s Mike, his departed grief.” – Rachel (43:29)
• The panel playfully debates what the cat “means,” ultimately noting it’s both textural and thematically relevant.

Casting & Oscar Isaac’s Road to Llewyn

Timestamps: 44:41–51:39

• The casting journey is recounted: real musicians auditioned, but only Isaac (a Juilliard grad and former ska band member) embodied both sides.
• Audition stories (Ryan Reynolds, Casey Affleck) illustrate the tricky tonal requirements of “the right kind of loser whose talent makes his failure believable.”
  • “Is it easier to teach a musician to act or an actor to sing?” – Ben (46:06)
• Isaac’s obsessive preparation (consulting movement coach Moni Yakim, learning specific “Travis picking” guitar style) is praised.

Llewyn’s Character – Talented, Unhappy, Stuck

Timestamps: 87:03–91:37, 94:18–99:48

• The conversation pivots to what Llewyn truly wants: not fame per se, but “just enough money to survive” doing what he’s doing, without life getting any harder.
  • “He never rants about the industry… all he wants is for someone to let him do what he does with less struggle.” – Ben (87:15)
  • “He’s fundamentally an unhappy person.” – Ben (98:57)
• The bleak, unsolvable grief over his lost partner Mike is identified as the unspoken barrier blocking progress or reinvention.

The Supporting World – Homes, Patronage, and Frustration

Timestamps: 91:37–97:42

• Rachel highlights the meaning of “homes” in the film—each home Llewyn visits is fractured, joyless, or conditional, except for the well-intentioned but performatively liberal Gorfines.
  • “They will give him the free home... but the expectation is you belong to the kingdom now.” – Ben (97:10)
• The hosts discuss the awkwardness (and pain) of being a “charity case” as an artist among supportive but slightly patronizing benefactors.

Music, Industry, and Creative Authenticity

Timestamps: 111:14–113:12

• The “purity” of folk music and Llewyn’s hostility toward commercial paths (yet scorned by the industry for not having a hook) is a recurring theme:
  • “Bud Grossman says… you are talented, but what makes you different from these other 800 guys I see?” – Ben (112:49)
  • “He can’t have a partner again... that emotional contract, he can’t do it.” – Rachel (113:12)
• The contrast between Llewyn and Bob Dylan (who “rewrites the rules”) is sharply drawn both in the movie and in the real folk movement.

Inside Llewyn Davis as “Comfort Film” & Pop Culture Legacy

Timestamps: 122:53–125:55, 135:14–137:50

• The hosts reflect on the odd comfort found in repeatedly watching a film about failure, routine, and small disappointments.
  • “Everything is the thing... you learn the same lesson over and over again until you learn it.” – Rachel (134:02)
• It’s noted that to some, the movie’s melancholy is unwatchable (“the Trader Joe’s cashier warning customers not to see it”), but for the panel, its empathy, humor, and beauty keep it irresistible.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Oscar Isaac’s Performance:
  “Why not sing more, Oscar? …I'm just so darn good at it.” – Rachel Zegler (03:42)
• On Rewatching as Comfort:
  “I was alone on New Year's... I went, I'm just going to go home, I'm going to watch my favorite movie, and I'm going to cry.” – Rachel (22:38)
• On Llewyn’s Fate:
  “The idea of this film is... weirdly hopeful, despite how depressing it is, that he's going to figure it out at some point because the first step was not letting the cat out.” – Rachel (83:53)
• On the Coens’ Intent:
  “When it came out, people asked us, how did you decide to make a movie about an unsuccessful folk singer? …We’d never considered making a movie about a successful folk singer.” – Ben, quoting Coens via Del Toro interview (25:02)
• On Meaninglessness of Success:
  “He doesn’t want to be a performing monkey. He just wants to survive.” – Ben (97:42)
• On Creative Striving:
  “The worst thing you can do is trying to fight the ‘why can’t I get it together’ thing, versus trying to absorb lessons from everything that happens to you.” – Ben (133:12)

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Other Highlights

Fun Tangents & Running Jokes

• Dog chaos: Lenny the dog interrupts frequently, prompting dog puns and jokes about leashes (“Two dogs off the leash” 01:20).
• Ska Band Lore: Oscar Isaac’s ska punk band, “Blinking Underdogs,” and the absurdity of a third-wave ska Llewyn Davis sequel.
• Guest banter: Zegler jokes about her roles, her “depressing music movie” typecasting on the podcast, and receiving a handwritten note from Judi Dench (151:35).

Connections to Musical Life

• Rachel describes performing “Don’t Cry for Me Argentina” on the Palladium’s balcony as Evita, paralleling the film’s outsider-performer anguish; Zegler also relates learning guitar for The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes to Isaac’s learning for the film (37:20).

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Oscar Isaac’s singing/musicality: 01:39–06:11
• Why this film matters to Rachel: 11:01–24:26
• The cyclical structure and comfort viewing: 81:12–84:42, 135:14–137:50
• The “cat” motif & narrative engine: 42:07–44:41
• Casting history & Oscar Isaac’s preparation: 44:41–51:39
• Llewyn Davis’s core misery & self-sabotage: 87:03–99:48
• Patronage/the Gorfines and artist’s pride: 91:37–97:42
• Climactic Bud Grossman audition: 125:43–128:21
• Connections to real folk singers/Dylan: 111:14–113:12

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Conclusion

The episode ultimately frames Inside Llewyn Davis as a film whose cyclical, ambiguous melancholia is both uniquely comforting and perpetually relevant to anyone navigating creative self-doubt, life’s unpredictability, or the endless “loops” of adulthood and art. The conversation sparkles with personal anecdotes, “inside baseball” about artistic life, and deeply felt admiration for the Coens’ most quietly devastating movie.

Closing Thought:
“Everything is the thing. …Until you learn the lesson, you will learn the same lesson over and over again until you actually, actually learn it.” – Rachel Zegler (134:02)

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[Ben Hosley]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect.

[Griffin Newman]

All you need to know is that.

[Ben Hosley]

The name of the shadow is Blackjack. If it was never new and it never gets old, then it's a podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

That's nice.

[Ben Hosley]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

I was wondering if you're gonna sing.

[Ben Hosley]

I can't. I, I.

[Griffin Newman]

We do have a singer. Next to.

[Ben Hosley]

Your attention to our guest today.

[Rachel Zegler]

Who.

[Griffin Newman]

Who? I know.

[Ben Hosley]

Lenny Bernstein, the dog. Lenny Bernstein's been barking up a storm and I daren't sing in front of him.

[David Sims]

I mean, technically, we have two dogs off the leash.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Ben Hosley]

We like Sims is off the leash.

[Rachel Zegler]

Why are you off the leash?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. Call me David Dog.

[David Sims]

The dog nickname. And then I recently gifted him his own leash.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh.

[Ben Hosley]

He does have a leash.

[Griffin Newman]

We could put.

[Rachel Zegler]

And the way Lenny is like that.

[Ben Hosley]

You took the leash out and Lenny immediately barked.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry, Lenny. Sorry, Lenny. I am not trying to take you out.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm so sorry, guys.

[Ben Hosley]

That's for David. It's because David gets rowdy. Lenny.

[Griffin Newman]

If I get silly, I'm off the.

[Rachel Zegler]

Lenny, stop. Sorry, guys.

[Griffin Newman]

Shouldn't have said that.

[Rachel Zegler]

Lenny's here.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Two dogs off the L O. The O. The L O. The L. Yeah, that was. You did the line from the movie. That was great. Sorry.

[Rachel Zegler]

I love that line.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

There he goes.

[Rachel Zegler]

Honey pod. The cast.

[Ben Hosley]

He's. Here's the other thing. He sings so well in this.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a little annoying. When a good singer.

[Rachel Zegler]

It is disgusting.

[Ben Hosley]

It is not like I have not in the past, in the intro for this show, butchered songs from movies that are sung well. But because he does not sing that often, I was gonna. Every time I re watch it, I'm like, jesus Christ. He's actually this good at singing.

[Griffin Newman]

Does he sing in anything else?

[Ben Hosley]

Really cannot.

[Rachel Zegler]

He sings in a. Remember putting on my Oscar Isaac, please, Which is very annoying and I'm very sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, what a charming hat. He is great face on this.

[Rachel Zegler]

He is in a film about, like, a high school reunion where he sings because he plays like somebody who went on from high school to become a singer.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay.

[Rachel Zegler]

And like, he was like, yeah, he's.

[Griffin Newman]

What is this one?

[Ben Hosley]

With Janet Tatum?

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes, with Channing Tatum, Rosario Dawson in.

[Ben Hosley]

This movie and it doesn't exist.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It's called. Oh, boy.

[Ben Hosley]

Really?

[Rachel Zegler]

10 years.

[Griffin Newman]

Called 10 years.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, because it's about a 10 year high school reunion.

[Griffin Newman]

It's from, like his, you know, like, from like Robin Hood Drive like his early sucker punch. It's 2011.

[Rachel Zegler]

I imagine it's kind of like one of the first times he did sing publicly in a film. And there's some great. I mean, he does a really great cover of Bob Dylan song in it, weirdly enough. Um, what fucking song is it he does have?

[Ben Hosley]

I. I assume he sings in the still never released musical cut of Zack Snyder's Sucker Punch standing in the doorway.

[Griffin Newman]

Is the song he sings supposedly.

[Rachel Zegler]

No, no.

[Griffin Newman]

You'Re right.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay, there we go.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, then, I don't know. The problem is if you Google Oscar Isaac, Bob Dylan. Google's just like. No, it's called inside.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

Actually fair.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're like.

[Rachel Zegler]

And Bob Dylan is depicted in. He is briefly depicted inside Llewyn Davis.

[Ben Hosley]

But I'm looking. I'm not clocking any other movie that I can remember him seeing.

[Griffin Newman]

Why not sing more Oscar?

[Rachel Zegler]

I honestly, I have to say, I kind of respect it because as somebody who has made her career on something like that, then it just becomes the thing that everybody wants you to do all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it's hard and you're good at it, so people want you to do it.

[Rachel Zegler]

The thing is, I'm just so darn good at it.

[Ben Hosley]

I have two things to say.

[Griffin Newman]

He dances, of course. Famously in Ex Machina.

[Ben Hosley]

Great dance.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

But he's never done a full blown singing and dancing musical, which we know he can do both.

[Rachel Zegler]

We've tried.

[Ben Hosley]

We've tried.

[Rachel Zegler]

There was the longest time he was rumored to be doing the Funny Girl revival for the longest time.

[Griffin Newman]

He'd probably be pretty good.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I certainly think he would be fantastic in literally anything that he ever tried to do.

[Ben Hosley]

I agree. And we're gonna. We're gonna talk about him a lot because it's been an interesting career.

[Rachel Zegler]

God forbid a girl wants to talk about Oscar Isaac.

[Griffin Newman]

I was about to say, like, yeah, no need to frighten Isaac. Discussion on the inside.

[Ben Hosley]

L. Davis all the time. He did.

[Rachel Zegler]

He did sing in his. In the Sign in Sydney Bruce's Window. That he did with Great.

[Griffin Newman]

That's right. I saw that. And he was. Yeah, that was good.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, he was fantastic.

[Ben Hosley]

Two things I want to say.

[Griffin Newman]

Second act trouble, but it was good. No, you weren't a fan. I mean, you were a fan.

[Rachel Zegler]

I love everything he does.

[Ben Hosley]

Simply saying.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm a critic.

[Rachel Zegler]

Don't worry. He's off the lead right now.

[Griffin Newman]

Listen to this Londoner. She's saying leave.

[Ben Hosley]

Don't want to trigger Lenny. He's O the L. He may have.

[Griffin Newman]

Sung in Moon Night. I did watch every episode.

[Rachel Zegler]

I loved Moon. He didn't sing in it, but he was very. I. I'm still waiting on season two of that show.

[Griffin Newman]

He's. He loves it.

[Rachel Zegler]

He.

[Griffin Newman]

He's ready for this one.

[Ben Hosley]

I want to say it does make this movie retroactively, even more special that it's like, this is the one time he sings, right? It's. It feels like a thing proprietary to L. Davis. Yeah, I talk about this effect so much, but, like, seeing High Fidelity when it came out, and when Jack Black sings at the end, you're like, holy.

[Griffin Newman]

Shit, that guy can sing.

[Ben Hosley]

And then I showed it to my sister, who's a little older than you, who had already seen School of Rock and everything, when I was like, you're 14. You're old enough to see High Fidelity.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I was, like, waiting for her.

[Ben Hosley]

Response to the scene, and she's like, yeah, of course. The Jack Black thing.

[Rachel Zegler]

Of course he can sing, right?

[Ben Hosley]

Like Llewyn Davis. It feels like Llewyn Davis, the character can sing. Not that Oscar Isaac can sing, because it's not a given that he's gonna sing in everything.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right. And you think that because of the point in the. His career that that film was. That it would be one of those things that kind of sets the standard for the rest of his career. But he's been very choosy about when he's decided to sing.

[Ben Hosley]

This is what we're going to talk about.

[Rachel Zegler]

Lenny is eating the mic.

[Griffin Newman]

Hi, Lenny.

[Ben Hosley]

This movie comes out, trying to capture it. And I was like, well, here he is. This is the guy. This is the definitive leading man.

[Rachel Zegler]

Not a single award. What the fuck?

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely is crazy.

[Ben Hosley]

But then also, the ensuing career has not been like, exactly, but even more generally, like, you're mad that he's not.

[Griffin Newman]

The most famous actor alive or whatever. Yes, I'm done a lot of interesting stuff in good roles.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

Now he's good in everything he does.

[Ben Hosley]

Now here's the second thing I wanted to say before I introduced the podcast. Speaking of good things and interesting roles, I was scrolling through the IMDb to try to find is there any earlier singing role? I forgot? And I. I didn't find one, but I did find that his fourth ever credit is a TV movie called Lenny the Wonder Dog.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, true.

[Ben Hosley]

2004, Oscar Isaac Hernandez. He plays the role of Fart Man.

[Griffin Newman]

Excuse me, Griffin. Detective fart man.

[Rachel Zegler]

IMDb didn't have that information, so sorry, I. We have to get him on the phone.

[Ben Hosley]

And the poster, the poster. Lenny the Wonder Dog. Looks quite a bit like.

[Rachel Zegler]

Looks like Leonard.

[Ben Hosley]

Poor Lenny.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's his face.

[Ben Hosley]

And the tagline is in quotes. I'm not a cartoon. I really can talk.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. Andy Richter's in this Craig Ferguson.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, so it's an ink. Oh my God. In my brain I was like, oh, this is something that probably came out and like was not.

[Griffin Newman]

American release directed by Baylor Carr.

[Rachel Zegler]

It was an English release.

[Ben Hosley]

It was a TV film. Maybe directly.

[Griffin Newman]

It went straight to Hungarian television like.

[Ben Hosley]

All the best films do.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh my God. Lenny's famous in Hungary.

[Griffin Newman]

Oscar. I'm sorry. Michael Winslow, of course, who is the sound effects guy from Police Academy. We all remember him. Has a story credit on lending the wonder book.

[Ben Hosley]

Sounds good. Yeah, so sounds good.

[Rachel Zegler]

I need to talk to him about this because this is actually such fascinating like let's throw this one out. Let's watch that movie and do a live reaction instead.

[Ben Hosley]

It's a more important movie to talk about. Oscar Isaac often jokes about his involvement in the production of this picture. In a 2017 interview with the Los Angeles Times, he said, yeah, I was detective fart Man. That was in Miami. I was just out of high school. I played one of two bumbling officers. No farts ever happened though. So I'm not sure where the name fart man actually comes from.

[Griffin Newman]

It's. It's actually right. It's a Swedish fartman. Yes, right.

[Ben Hosley]

Used to be for tar. Right? Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, man, he looks. Yeah, he looks like Oscar Isaac. I'll say he looks baby faced, but.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, it's a good old. We have two guests on the show today.

[Griffin Newman]

That's right.

[Ben Hosley]

And I have to introduce the show. It's Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[David Sims]

David.

[Ben Hosley]

It's a podcast. David, mime strumming a guitar and listen those beautiful. Can you sing again for me?

[Griffin Newman]

Me?

[Ben Hosley]

No, I'm David. You're just strumming a guitar and then saying, I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. This is a miniseries on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen together and separately today we are talking about. I'm ready to say it upon this rewatch my favorite film of theirs.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

This is my brothers movie.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Inside Llewyn Davis which is kind of like a double blank check for them.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

We talked about in the speed at which there were movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

That true grit Was kind of a true blank check. Cash from the success of no Country. And then True Grit is such a blockbuster.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? They get to do this? Yes, I guess. I mean, I think this was a pretty modest movie, like, in terms of budget and scale and all that.

[Ben Hosley]

Like JJ points out in the research, they had been like one a year on a clip, and then they're slowing down.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And they took their time on this one. They. They really gave themselves the space.

[Rachel Zegler]

And it shows.

[Ben Hosley]

It shows. It's my favorite film of theirs. It's called Inside L. Davis. This is a miniseries called no Country Pod. Country. For old cast.

[Rachel Zegler]

For old cast.

[Griffin Newman]

There you go. There you go. Who's our guest?

[Ben Hosley]

Our two guests today. Guest one, guest one. He's known as Lenny the wonder Dog.

[Griffin Newman]

Alphabetical order.

[Ben Hosley]

He's finally calmed down, his head resting on the desk.

[Griffin Newman]

Need a cutie pie?

[Ben Hosley]

His name.

[Griffin Newman]

He's so cute.

[Ben Hosley]

Is Leonard Bernstein.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it actually Leonard Bernstein or is he just Leonard?

[Rachel Zegler]

No. Well, so his name is Lenny, but he's named after Leonard Bernstein. And so he's Leonard Bernstein. Zegler.

[Ben Hosley]

There we go.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's him.

[Ben Hosley]

Lbz.

[Rachel Zegler]

Lbz, yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And our second guest today, returning to.

[Rachel Zegler]

The show, less important.

[Ben Hosley]

Well.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, Lenny is also returning.

[Ben Hosley]

We were never going to be able to book Lenny without you, so you're equally important in that you're right.

[Rachel Zegler]

He can't walk himself here.

[Griffin Newman]

You're his stage mom.

[Rachel Zegler]

I am. I'm his mama Rose. It's me, Rachel Zegler, first lady of Argentina.

[Ben Hosley]

Coen brothers win our March Madness thing. We commit to them. We're figuring out guests. I know you're doing Evita in London.

[Griffin Newman]

You are truly doing a show in another country.

[Rachel Zegler]

Eight times a week.

[Griffin Newman]

Eight times a week. And you got to go on that balcony. And London isn't warm.

[Rachel Zegler]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Or was it sometimes?

[Rachel Zegler]

We had a really nice summer, actually. Yeah. And I didn't get rained on either. Did you like, outside on the balcony? Never got rained on.

[Ben Hosley]

That's wild.

[Rachel Zegler]

Like, at least not like in torrential downpour.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, maybe a little.

[Rachel Zegler]

Like a miss.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, London's so misty.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. But I had. I had the most beautiful weather for the balcony.

[David Sims]

So you're during the show, actually, like, outside every night.

[Rachel Zegler]

Every night outside. Sometimes twice a day. I would go out after intermission, and the Act 2 opener is don't Cry for Me, Argentina.

[Griffin Newman]

Heard of it?

[Rachel Zegler]

So I. Ever heard of that song?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

So I. So I would go out on the balcony of the Palladium and look over Argyll street and people Showed up in droves.

[Ben Hosley]

So the numbers performed to the people outside the theater and then streamed inside to the audience.

[Rachel Zegler]

And it was such a hot topic of conversation.

[Griffin Newman]

Is this good?

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Is this bad?

[Rachel Zegler]

Is this bad?

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, that was the idea.

[Rachel Zegler]

Stir up the. I mean, narratively, makes sense that she wouldn't sing the song to rich theatergoers.

[Griffin Newman]

For the people.

[Rachel Zegler]

Thanks to the people. And it was like TikTok viral. Immediately terrifying. Every night. I always convinced myself no one was gonna come. Like, I was gonna walk out, there'd be nobody. Like, it's a farce.

[Ben Hosley]

That was your fear.

[Rachel Zegler]

That really was. You know, because it. The. The crowd kind of made them. The experience on the inside even more amazing because the camera had them on it.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, right, right.

[Rachel Zegler]

So people would always, like. It would get applause inside the theater when the camera would pan to the amount of people.

[Ben Hosley]

That's cool, Margo. Cause they don't know they're stuck in the.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Argyle street is small.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's a half street.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. It's like the Palladium. It's like. It's basically just foot traffic. There's not a lot of cars in the way. It's sort of perfect. It feels like an old town square kind of vibe. Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

And also the Palladium. The balcony on the Palladium has this big gold crest that has a big P on it. Or Peron, like, so it actually really works in our favor.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, it's for.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, it's obviously for the Palladium.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's for you.

[Rachel Zegler]

But I was like, this is really. This works really well. Um, but yeah, so I was doing that when he texted me.

[Ben Hosley]

You're doing that production? Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The first show I saw on the West End when I was nine years old was Oliver at the Palladium.

[Rachel Zegler]

How old were you?

[Griffin Newman]

Nine. Sorry, nine or ten.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

And can I ask how many years ago that was?

[Ben Hosley]

Great question.

[Rachel Zegler]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Griffin Newman]

It would have been about. It would have been about, like, 95 or 96.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

So 30.

[Rachel Zegler]

Because my sweet boyfriend, his West End debut was Oliver. Was Oliver when he was.

[Ben Hosley]

Was.

[Rachel Zegler]

I think he was 11 years old.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, he's like one of the little guys.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, he was one of the kids. But it was. It was after that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. No, I saw. Because I'm. I was. I looked up what was in the Palladium while I lived in London. So it was Oliver from 94 to 98. And I saw that production. Then it was Saturday Night Fever, which never made it to Broadway. Maybe. Maybe it did definitely.

[Ben Hosley]

It did not.

[Griffin Newman]

Which was successfully big hit in London, which I saw as well. I remember when he jumps off the bridge, he like jumps down.

[Ben Hosley]

Cool.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, whatever.

[Rachel Zegler]

Trap door.

[Griffin Newman]

It was cool. King and I, which I saw love.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh.

[Rachel Zegler]

With Elaine Page, probably.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Yeah. And then Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. I don't think I saw that. So that would be it. But I have, you know. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Cool.

[Rachel Zegler]

Now they have Aita and I. I played the Palladium twice too, which was pretty cool.

[Griffin Newman]

With your own.

[Rachel Zegler]

My own set and music and pretty crazy. What was your 11 o' clock number, my man?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm funny girl from the last series that I did with you guys.

[Ben Hosley]

This is the other thing. So we. We put the Coen brothers on the schedule. Our Reddit were very normal. I'm sure they were start wish listing.

[Rachel Zegler]

Guess Reddit and normal in the same sentence.

[Ben Hosley]

And someone pings friend of the show. Past and future guest Rachel Zegler. Very on the record about Lewin Davis being her number one favorite movie of all time.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

And I say to David, should we ask Rachel? And David says, first of all, she's in London. She's doing Evita. She's doing eight shows a week. Secondly, he was like, it is very funny that we have go ahead. This young like future facing star.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

On our podcast. And all three times she's done depressing music.

[Griffin Newman]

Movies. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Movies about how like musical chew up and spit you out.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's true.

[Griffin Newman]

So obviously cabaret a star now and now instead.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Three movies basically about like depression and failure in the music industry. Yeah. Or in musical theater.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And.

[Rachel Zegler]

Or the pending war. Yes, well, true.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. I text you, you respond immediately.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I say coen brothers on blank check. And you just all caps go like lu and dangerous. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. And it's just been months of trying to find like truly the three day window. I'm here, here, no problem dog here. Everything going great, but it's been months of just like without stress. No, the date's gonna arrive, we're gonna find the window.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's leading. It was all leading up to this.

[Ben Hosley]

It's all leading up to this.

[Rachel Zegler]

But no, I mean even when you. When you texted me like, and we put down a date.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I was like, at that point, I wasn't doing my two shows at the Palladium, so.

[Ben Hosley]

You're right. It was.

[Griffin Newman]

You thought you were gonna have a big cushion.

[Rachel Zegler]

I thought I was gonna be open.

[Griffin Newman]

But then love with you.

[Rachel Zegler]

Well, then I really fell in love with London. Yeah, it was awesome.

[Ben Hosley]

But you basically auto completed the request before I even had the chance to ask.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, you don't have to ask me.

[Ben Hosley]

You said just when and where.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, because I never get, you know, like, in these. These interviews that you do when you have the job that I have.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

You. You get asked what your favorite movie is, but you never get asked why, and you never get to sit there and explain why it's so fudgeing. Genius.

[Griffin Newman]

Lou and Davis, I love it. And they're like, that rocks. Oscar Isaac.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool.

[Rachel Zegler]

You love Oscar.

[Griffin Newman]

Anyway, like, you know.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Shower at night or in the morning.

[Ben Hosley]

Or whatever else literally that you can't live without.

[Rachel Zegler]

I had Jack Antonoff tell me that it's. It's. It's not even in the top five Coen Brothers movies in Cosmopolitan. And I was like, not only are you loud, you're wrong. And it's like.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, this has been the. The nightmare, this whole series as I try to, like, update the list in real time. I've seen all these movies many times, but upon these rewatches, things are moving around. Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

And by the way, life comes with different perspectives.

[Ben Hosley]

Absolutely. And every Coen Brothers movie plays different to me every time I watch it.

[Rachel Zegler]

I agree.

[Ben Hosley]

I like them all, but they all, like, unfold different things. I find different things in them. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That's not even top 10, he says.

[Rachel Zegler]

Not even. Is that what he said? Top 10?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he says that's not even top.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm glad it made it into the actual final cut of the article, because.

[Ben Hosley]

Insane. Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

We're gonna do our ultimate to Jack A.

[Griffin Newman]

But.

[Rachel Zegler]

My God.

[Ben Hosley]

We're gonna do our ultimate ranking in the Buster Scruggs episode. But I was trying to arrange my letterbox list in a right last night, like, doing some rough drafting, and I was like, the shit that's outside of my 10 is insane.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry.

[Ben Hosley]

And it looks rude, but it's insane.

[Griffin Newman]

Look how upset you are overpowering Antonov in this. I'm sorry. You're crushing him. He goes like, I like Dune. Who's in that? Oscar Isaac. And you say, are you just gonna name all the Oscar Isaac movies? You're just slamming him in the.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's the. But that's how Jack and I, we're from New Jersey. It's like, that's love.

[Griffin Newman]

It's banter. It's banter.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's us showing love to each other.

[Griffin Newman]

He says it's about. You say it's about Javier's comedic timing that you're right. And he says, no, it's about the ships. And you say, that's wrong. It's actually about the worms.

[Ben Hosley]

It's not about the ships.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's about.

[Griffin Newman]

Definitely way more about the worms. No one watches Dunes and go Dune and goes, great ships.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm sorry the worm showed up to the BAFTAs.

[Griffin Newman]

We love those.

[Rachel Zegler]

I was there. Or was that the Oscars?

[Ben Hosley]

They were.

[Griffin Newman]

They were at Conan had the worm playing the piano at the Oscars, which I love.

[Rachel Zegler]

Was that this year?

[Ben Hosley]

That was this year.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

I was there.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

I can't fucking remember everything this year.

[Ben Hosley]

This is too many Oscars.

[Rachel Zegler]

If you Google my year, nothing feels real.

[Ben Hosley]

Sure. But, like, you could. You could say in casual conversation with someone, what's the movie with the. The space worms?

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, it's gonna be Dune.

[Ben Hosley]

Dune.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's gonna be.

[Ben Hosley]

If you go, what's the movie with the spaceships?

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm gonna say Star Wars.

[Ben Hosley]

Dune is like the 40th answer.

[Griffin Newman]

You presented the Oscar to Dune.

[Rachel Zegler]

I did.

[Griffin Newman]

And because you did visual effects.

[Rachel Zegler]

I've done it twice now. That's funny that you have. I've done special effects visuals twice. Twice. Like visual effects twice. And Dune has won both. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

So Lenny's ass is now on the mic. Let's be honest.

[Ben Hosley]

Do you know what's cooler than presenting an Oscar to Dune?

[Rachel Zegler]

Presenting an Oscar to Dune twice.

[Ben Hosley]

I was gonna say Dune two times.

[Rachel Zegler]

Nice.

[Ben Hosley]

Did you see this movie when it came out? Oh, sure.

[Rachel Zegler]

Did I?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Did you?

[Ben Hosley]

In theaters?

[Rachel Zegler]

I couldn't see it in theaters because it was rated R and I was 12 years old.

[Ben Hosley]

This, unfortunately, is the question I had to ask, and I need to get.

[Rachel Zegler]

That answer is I saw it out of the way, but I was the same when it came out on digital.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay.

[Rachel Zegler]

I saw it almost immediately. And I shouldn't have. I was too young, but I was 13 years old, and. And in my head, I was already a struggling musician, which is hysterical now, looking back. But so I saw it quite young, and I was obsessed, and I watched it, like, every day of my, like, freshman year of high school.

[Griffin Newman]

One might say this is an interesting movie for a freshman in high school to become obsessed with.

[Ben Hosley]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Just because it's about a. A guy who's gotten the shit beaten out of him. Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

By Immediately. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're just like.

[Rachel Zegler]

And physically right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And physically right. Actually gotten the ship beat out.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

I was gonna say this is the kind of movie that gets an R rating. Not even because it's incredibly inappropriate. But just because it's like kids shouldn't see this.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

He says just for language four times.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I mean like, I don't think. Right. There's not much.

[Rachel Zegler]

It really is just for language. There's no nudity. And honestly the content isn't even that crazy.

[Ben Hosley]

No, no.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's really just like language and suicidal ideation. But even though the suicidal ideation isn't in your face, more subtextual, the cold.

[David Sims]

Reality of pursuing the arts.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I would say that is rated R, right? Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

And that's why 14 year old rated.

[Griffin Newman]

R for hard truths. That's why 14 year old you, 14.

[Rachel Zegler]

Old me was like, yeah, yeah, dude, this shit sucks.

[Griffin Newman]

Tell me I'm doomed.

[Rachel Zegler]

Exactly.

[Ben Hosley]

Do you think it helped you because you, you have weathered a lot of, of storms in your young career.

[Rachel Zegler]

What are you talking about?

[Ben Hosley]

I'm sorry, let me check my notes here. Everything has gone well. No, we've, we've talked about it in the past on and off mic, but you've had this fascinating career, like shot out of a cannon with like incredible high highs and then everything seems to have like an ensuing storm around it in one way or another. And I'm constantly impressed with how well you were able to keep your head on your shoulders and like process stuff and weather stuff.

[Rachel Zegler]

Thank you.

[Ben Hosley]

Do you think like it is stuff like this that you were preparing yourself for like the harsh reality of it rather than some golden like version there?

[Rachel Zegler]

Certainly there's an aspect of like lessons learned from movies like this that come.

[Ben Hosley]

Out like, you know, star is born.

[Rachel Zegler]

In cabaret and all that jazz. Those movies really do prepare you for like rejection and feeling like you're in a ruthless and living the same day over and over and over and over again. And yeah, I think there's certainly aspects of that. I think watching it during those storms were very, was very helpful.

[Ben Hosley]

So it is a movie you will like revisit as a comfort food.

[Rachel Zegler]

I see it, I watch it an embarrassing amount of times per year. The last time I watched it was like New Year's Eve. This year, like I ushered in the new year watching this movie, which is not something you should do, but it.

[Ben Hosley]

Kind of makes sense.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, but I was alone on New Year's. I was like left behind by a guy and it was like one of those things where I went, I'm just going to go home, I'm going to watch my favorite movie and I'm going to cry. And I don't know if you remember this Year we had, like, that amazing, like, lightning and thunderstorm this year on New Year's.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

And so it was like watching it in the comfort of my, like, cozy New York apartment. Lightning and thunder in the background. Oscar Isaac wailing with a guitar. It was awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

It is damp blanket of a movie.

[Ben Hosley]

This confetti is so comforting to me, and yet I've seen so many times. I had not seen in a couple years, but especially in the years after it came out. I saw this like three or four times in theaters. I kept re watching it once it came out on Blu Ray, but I hadn't watched it in a couple years. And I forgot how intricate the web of his mistakes is.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And so I'm like, so comforted by the movie and its rhythms and the beats. And I was, like, doing the fucking Leo point to my girlfriend and being like, here's the line, the line's about to come up kind of stuff. Yeah, that too.

[Griffin Newman]

He doesn't see a lot of money in this.

[Ben Hosley]

But then there were so many moments where I would, like, grab my skull and squeeze it, and I'm like, oh, fudge. I just remembered what he's about to do.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

He's about to say the dumbest thing.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's about to ask Justin Timberlake that moment. For money.

[Ben Hosley]

Astounding.

[Rachel Zegler]

For an abortion for his wife. He got pregnant.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's crazy. Like, it's crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

He maybe got pregnant.

[Rachel Zegler]

He probably did, but you know by the end of the movie. You don't know.

[Ben Hosley]

You don't know.

[Rachel Zegler]

And that's what's amazing about it.

[Ben Hosley]

Of course.

[Rachel Zegler]

Ugh, I love this fucking movie.

[Ben Hosley]

It's one of the best movies.

[Rachel Zegler]

It really is. I'm jealous that, like, I'm jealous for anyone who got to see it in a theater. I'm always waiting on a rerelease. When I finally get my ass in that Criterion closet. It's the first one I'll go to.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, we gotta get you in there.

[Rachel Zegler]

I know it's my dream, but I do have the Criterion Collection copy of it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I had a. My laptop case is like the cat on the really waiting on the stool. It's like the Criterion cover is the cat with the guitar case. And that's my laptop case.

[Ben Hosley]

Have you watched the thing on the Blu Ray that is Guillermo del Toro talking to the Coen brothers? No, it's like 40 minutes long. I sent it to everyone in the blank check group text last night from some. A shady Russian website was the only.

[Griffin Newman]

Place it's hard to, like, be charmed by. Of course. I feel like he'll just get anywhere.

[Rachel Zegler]

Have you seen that new tweet of that he sent out when somebody was like, guillermo del Toro is like a. He's like, just a girl because he makes all these things that he wants to make. And he said, like, that is me. Like, he responded, that is me. Then they were asking about it on the Frankenstein carpet, about why he's just a girl and I love him. He gets it.

[Ben Hosley]

He's so infectious, and he's so knowledgeable, and he's so good at speaking about film. And he's clearly so in love with the Coen brothers. And I watched the interview, and it feels to me like the most open I have ever seen them be. Yeah. Because they're usually so cagey and don't want to, like, overanalyze their films. Yeah. And the fact that it's like, he's one of them, and they're able to throw questions back at them. But there's the key quote in that thing where they go. When it came out, people asked us, how did you decide to make a movie about an unsuccessful folk singer? And they were like. It was only being asked that question that for the first time, we realized we had never even considered the idea of making a movie about a successful folk singer. It never would cross our mind.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's fantastic.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

And automatic. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So, okay, so Rachel, Right. You fall in love with this movie as a teenager. Griffin, I assume you saw this in theaters. I sure did, too. I remember getting in a big, excited discussion about it with JD Amato, friend of the show at Linkin Park. Remember that bar we all used to go? It was called Linkin Park. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Hilarious. Lincoln park, the bar named after the.

[Rachel Zegler]

Band, but not the town in New Jersey where you're from.

[Griffin Newman]

Where Ben is from.

[Rachel Zegler]

Where Ben is from.

[Griffin Newman]

So Lincoln park, of course, means many things to many people. Emo band. Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

I've become so numb I can't feel you there. You know how it is.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm crawling in my skin. But no, where J.D. and I were, like, agreeing about, like, how it's like. About how creativity is iterative, and it's like you do so much and you accomplish so little, but then things barely do change. And like that, you know? And, like, that's. I just remember. Very animated.

[Ben Hosley]

No, I. That was the bar we go to after Chris Gethard show. I remember having an almost identical conversation with JD at the Creek in the Cave. I think after Gethard's album Taping, possibly. It's when he recommended film spotting to me for the first time because we couldn't stop talking about this movie. And he was like, you should listen to their episode on this. I think that's when I first started listening to them. But the same thing of, like, you know, JD who's very heady about this stuff, being like, careers are these series of, like, branching opportunities. You have these cycles of like, there's an opening and suddenly there's a path to be able to build your life and be recognized. And this movie is all about that loop and a guy who keeps on making every incorrect decision over and over again.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So I've got a question for all the gamers out there. Are you seriously going to miss out on Alienware's biggest gaming sale of the year? I mean, these are Black Friday prices we're talking about, so it's not, quote, just another sale. I took a look and this is some pretty big bang for your buck, you know, it's Alienware. I have an Alienware PC myself that I use for gaming. There's got some of the most advanced engineering out there with systems at the top of reviewers lists. And what about a gift for yourself? You can gift yourself a new Alienware 16 Aurora gaming laptop. I mean, this thing's got performance at the absolute next level with Intel Core processors. And even better, you can get it during Black Friday starting at 899.99plus you can save on all kinds of displays and accessories like the Alienware 32.4K QD OLED gaming monitor for ultimate visual fidelity. These really are incredible deals on PCs with otherworldly performance. So I'd visit alienware.com/deals soon and grab what you can before their biggest sale of the year goes dark. That's HTTP://backslash, backslash alienware.com deals. We love it.

[Rachel Zegler]

Love it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's good movie. Should I open the dossier? What should I do?

[Ben Hosley]

I think let's. Let's go straight to the dossier.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. All right. So look, Coen brothers. They make a bunch of movies. Do you like the Coen brothers, Rachel?

[Rachel Zegler]

I do like the Coen brothers. This is a burn after reading, is.

[Griffin Newman]

There you go.

[Ben Hosley]

Had you seen other films of theirs before you saw this?

[Rachel Zegler]

Definitely not. I feel like everything of theirs made a. Made an R rating before, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes.

[Ben Hosley]

They're almost all Rs. They don't make a lot of.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I was certainly too young. I feel like, I feel like the first one I watched after Inside the Wound Davis was Burn After Reading.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right, yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

Which is Grown Ups. Great. It's such a great fucking movie.

[Griffin Newman]

So the Cohen's after they do True Grit are kind of chilling. They're pretty tired. There was one report that they were going to do a TV show with Phil Johnston, the guy who wrote Cedar Rapids and Ralph Breaks the Internet.

[Ben Hosley]

Ben.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey, he loves Ralph Breaks the Internet.

[David Sims]

Damn.

[Griffin Newman]

It was called Harvey Corbo. It was an hour long single camera comedy about a Los Angeles PI. I don't know. Nothing ever came of this, but they did. Funny to think that they considered tv.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's a likely thing for them to consider, though, like that synopsis. Enough is enough for me to be like, yeah, the Coen brothers probably thought they were going to do that.

[Ben Hosley]

They. They did four movies in four years. Four movies in five years.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. Yeah, four and four and four. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[Ben Hosley]

So there is that sort of like. And it was this, as we've talked about the spurt of creativity where, like Serious man and Burn After Reading are written around the same time that they're adapting no Country. When that's a hit, they're like getting automatic green lights on everything. Then it's the real. If you could do anything, what would you do? They pick True Grit, but it's like they're just constant motion. Yeah, but.

[Griffin Newman]

So they're sitting around as they do when they write, and Joel says, all right, well, how about this folk singer gets beat up in the alleyway behind Gertie's Folk City. And then they're like, well, why would someone beat up a folk singer? But they can't let it go. And so they return to this idea.

[Ben Hosley]

Every so often, this thing that often happens with their films where they have an idea they can't resolve and they go like, put that on ice. And anytime we have writer's block for something else, we'll go back to it and see if we can iterate on it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So they like the idea, this notion of someone who's not successful but not because they're not good. Right. So tell a story about, like a folk musician who's like a failure but is good. And so that's interesting.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Because, like, no one's. Everyone, like, thinks Lewin is talented. Right. Even Bud Grossman. It's just kind of like, yeah, but what's your thing? How do you fit into the world?

[Ben Hosley]

Going back to the. It is surprising how good Oscar Isaac is a singing thing. It's almost within the structure of the movie that, like, what he performs, maybe once every 10 to 15 minutes. And in the time between, the guy is such a self destructive mess.

[Griffin Newman]

So rancid that you're like.

[Ben Hosley]

That you're like, he must not be that good on top of this. And then he breaks out a guitar and you're like, this guy is just getting in his own way.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The way Ethan puts it is, we wanted a nice dick now.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay, David.

[Griffin Newman]

He means someone who blows his top, speaks out of turn, says something really dickish and then three minutes later is like, I'm a dick for doing that. You know what I mean? Like, it's like. Is self aware but cannot help but be kind of a dick. And Dave Van Ronk is the guy they quickly alight on where they're like, right. This was the guy in the folk scene where everyone was like, he's talented. He's one of a kind. He is a tough hand. He is always making.

[Rachel Zegler]

My God, he was so fucking talented.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I brought the mayor of McDougal Street. I assume that's the book. Oh, Chronicles.

[David Sims]

Chronicles. In the first chapter, he talks about meeting Dave for the first time. It's a really just short little moment here they're hanging out and he asks him, how can I get a gig like working at the Gaslight? And Vinronk looked at me curiously with snippy and surly and asked if I did janitor work.

[Griffin Newman]

Damn.

[Rachel Zegler]

Bob Dylan, famously easy to get along with.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. Very normal.

[Rachel Zegler]

Chill, man.

[Ben Hosley]

Really easy to talk to.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, right, right. Yeah. But of course, something of a complete.

[David Sims]

Dylan played a song and he was impressed. Be able to get like some gigs.

[Griffin Newman]

And did Bob Dylan. How did that career pan out?

[David Sims]

You know what I just got.

[Griffin Newman]

I will say, really?

[David Sims]

Sure how it panned, dude.

[Rachel Zegler]

I don't want to spoil it, but you're going to love what happened.

[Griffin Newman]

I will say Chronicles is. We don't need these things anymore, I guess because we have phones. But that was an awesome bathroom book because you just pick it up and you just get like, you know, five good minutes of Dylan music.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Anyway, it's like.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's like the Joan Didion's the White Album where you're like, I get a couple essays about the 1970s.

[Griffin Newman]

Bite size.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Dave Van Ron. Now, Lewin is nothing like Van Ron really in the movie. Apart from that kind of status. Like, Dave Van Ronk was gigantic.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

He was Swedish, right.

[Ben Hosley]

He.

[Griffin Newman]

If you've listened to him, he has this like really horse kind of awesome gravelly voice. Not this like beautiful little voice that Oscar has.

[David Sims]

He's mostly Irish. He just has the name. I feel like that was something he, like, said about himself.

[Griffin Newman]

He was the Swedish guy, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Swedish stock, maybe. He was big.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he was big.

[Ben Hosley]

When the Coen brothers announce a movie, they usually do not explain a lot. You know, you know the cast, you maybe know the title. But it's a working title. The setting, a working title production. And so there'll be rampant online movie nerd speculation from idiots like us. And it feels like until the trailer comes out, you don't actually really know what the movie is. And because they've been working at such a fast clip and then this movie shot and then they had a really long post production, they were like, we don't want to rush it. There was like three years of mystery around it that the early words were like, they've cast Oscar Isaac, this, like, young, semi unknown actor. It's about the folk music scene. It's New York in the 60s. I remember early Dave Von Runk being, like, thrown out there is like, it's maybe kind of based on him and people thought it was more of a biopic or even if it was fictionalized, it was lightly fictionalized. And I think that has created an issue perhaps for the Dave Von Rock legacy where people still kind of assume the movie is more closely based on his personality.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Where he was difficult in a way that's very different than Lewyn Davis. That they really use it as a jumping off point of, like, who's the other guy? Right. That, like. I think what they're obsessed with is the idea of, like, reading Bob Dylan's biography. And for 98% of the public, you're like, man, this name comes up 800 times and I've never heard of this guy before. Who's the one guy in the scene who didn't become totemic.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right, right. And that's. I think it's a totally fair, like, jumping off point for a film to be made. And really they just kind of based his look, you know, like, beard, shaggy hair. This is the jacket he wore. And they have the same album cover.

[Ben Hosley]

It's jumping off. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

Because Dave and Rock's album cover is the same as, like, the inside album cover that he shows to.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

F. Murray Abraham.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Inside repertoire to a lot of the songs.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Is a Dave Van were like, traditional songs that he.

[Rachel Zegler]

That he would do.

[Griffin Newman]

If you listen to his Dink song is. Well, it's so different because his voice is different. It's worth singing. So it's very Cool.

[Rachel Zegler]

So, like, raspy and cool. But, like, I'm pretty sure. I don't know if I'm fairly certain this is a true story, that Oscar wasn't super good at guitar before this job.

[Griffin Newman]

No, he was not.

[Rachel Zegler]

And then he met Dave Van Ronck's, like, somebody who had either learned from him or had played with him randomly at a bar in the Village, and he took him upstairs and taught him how to play guitar. And if you watch Oscar. I mean, if you've ever watched Oscar play guitar, it's insane.

[Griffin Newman]

He's doing something weird with how he plucks it, right?

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

And that is because that is how Davies play.

[Griffin Newman]

You play the guitar.

[Rachel Zegler]

I do play the guitar. And I also similarly learned for a.

[Griffin Newman]

Film which films you play.

[Rachel Zegler]

Like, shred My dad can.

[Ben Hosley]

Really? Yeah, actually.

[Rachel Zegler]

But no, I. I learned for the Hunger Games, Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. I learned from a woman who did not speak any English, so it was really fun.

[Ben Hosley]

Digital music, the universal language.

[Rachel Zegler]

I shot it in. In Poland and in Germany. But I did learn and I played.

[Ben Hosley]

Live for the movie, so US was basically welcome. He was like a dorm.

[Griffin Newman]

After we saw Gladiator together, I was like, remember that?

[Rachel Zegler]

Gladiator 2 did two.

[Ben Hosley]

After we saw together, we saw Gladiator.

[Rachel Zegler]

2, which was a movie that came out.

[Griffin Newman]

I just remember texting, being like, lucy Gray beard would have kicked all these guys out because it's all arena fighting.

[Rachel Zegler]

I did it in heels.

[Griffin Newman]

That's right.

[Ben Hosley]

To correct the story. No, Saw it together, goes to see Gladiator.

[Rachel Zegler]

We saw it in the same IMAX theater.

[Ben Hosley]

Someone points to you and goes, isn't that Rachel Zegler? And you go, oh, yeah. And you text her and then you talk.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

It wasn't like.

[Rachel Zegler]

And we talked. We talked over text.

[Griffin Newman]

We also talked.

[Rachel Zegler]

Did we see each other in person, though? Like, I remember I stood up and.

[Griffin Newman]

I waved red high. I cannot remember if I was with Kit Connor. You were with Kit?

[Rachel Zegler]

My sweetie pie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

You're just framing it almost as if you.

[Rachel Zegler]

We hung out.

[Griffin Newman]

We went to the quad.

[Ben Hosley]

Hey, bitch, want to go see Glad too?

[Rachel Zegler]

He said, and that is.

[Griffin Newman]

I just did a gii.

[Ben Hosley]

It's time. And then sent her a fandango ling.

[Griffin Newman]

Watch me enter the arena Coliseum.

[Rachel Zegler]

Sure, sure.

[Ben Hosley]

For sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Anyway, what was the point about this?

[Rachel Zegler]

He learned how to play guitar for the.

[Ben Hosley]

I was gonna say, was he basically like a dorm room guitarist? Like, he had.

[Rachel Zegler]

Like I. Yeah, like, he. He had.

[David Sims]

Because scob punk band named Blinking Underdog.

[Rachel Zegler]

That doesn't shock me. No. That's a great. Yeah, that's a great name. Are you kidding?

[David Sims]

They opened for Green Day, so apparently.

[Rachel Zegler]

Wait, no fucking way.

[David Sims]

A little bit of success.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's amazing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

Because obviously DJ Katrona, who's a friend of the show. A friend of the show, friend of mine.

[Griffin Newman]

How is he not been on the King of Memes?

[Rachel Zegler]

He actually wants to know why he's never been on the show.

[Ben Hosley]

Since we have that conversation.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, let's hang out.

[Ben Hosley]

Got to meet him. We're on an email thread with him because he's.

[Rachel Zegler]

I know. And he says that he's really upset that you guys aren't memeing back with him because he made. He's better at making so quick. I know. Guys, this is why we became friends. We both suffer from fast brain is what we say.

[Ben Hosley]

Look, I don't think we're allowed to talk about Shadow League, but let's just say we're in a very active email.

[Rachel Zegler]

Awesome.

[Ben Hosley]

Based around movie nerder.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I was. I was the puppeteer for DJ last season.

[Ben Hosley]

I do know this because you know that I don't know if you want to take credit for what you helped.

[Rachel Zegler]

Him with, but I did reveal. He revealed me in a very funny way. I can't remember what it was, but.

[Ben Hosley]

But he will make bespoke memes off of the thing that just happened in the email thread.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's disgusting.

[Ben Hosley]

Very, very fast and very well.

[Rachel Zegler]

He pisses me off.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

But he, he is very good friends with Oscar. He's the reason I've met him. And essentially like Oscar used to live on his couch and in la. Like they were all just broke together in Los Angeles. And so he's like. Do you realize how many like fucking times I had to tell him to stop rehearsing for that fucking movie?

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, for this?

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, because it would just be like all the time playing Green, Green Rocky Road. And so like. And me avid fan of this film. I have the record on my vinyl player essentially at all times. I'm always playing it. And DJ would just kind of stop coming over. I can never hear songs like, I just can never hear these songs. And he can't enjoy the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I would listen to Oscar pluck that guitar all day and night.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's the thing you have. No. I was like, you don't understand how lucky you were. You got to hear a Oscar worthy performance.

[Ben Hosley]

I agree.

[Rachel Zegler]

Fucking disappointed that he was not.

[Griffin Newman]

Not even.

[Rachel Zegler]

Not even a fucking. Or a Golden Globe.

[Griffin Newman]

Like we got a Globe. Nom.

[Rachel Zegler]

But why didn't he Win.

[Griffin Newman]

Why don't you give him yours?

[Ben Hosley]

Fine. That's what you should do.

[Rachel Zegler]

I didn't get to accept mine in person.

[Griffin Newman]

You got it. The one year the Globes were canceled. Excuse me. Two. Oh, with their two.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay. There's the insane fucking SAG Strike Year.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure. I think it's the list eight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Where it was like a half hour Entertainment Tonight special where they showed photos and they were like. And the winner is Johnny Depp. Anyway, next category.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm so sorry. I won via a tweet. I win.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. That was.

[Griffin Newman]

You had it. You had a weird.

[Rachel Zegler]

Lenny's sitting.

[Griffin Newman]

So the Cohen.

[Ben Hosley]

Really good boy.

[Griffin Newman]

Attention. He's being very good boy. The Cohens are like, all right. Folk singer David Rock. This is all interesting. The world is so interesting to us. We can't really think of much of a plot. So. So we're writing something without an engine. Right. There's no, like, narrative drive to this movie. So we'll just follow him for a week and not much will happen, and that's going to be okay. Which is, I suppose, a bit of a risk. And when you think about, like, Burn after reading True Grit, like, these are very plotty movies.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

And so, yeah, like, every five minutes there's a new twist.

[Griffin Newman]

But it concerned them so much that they threw the cat in is how they put it. Now, obviously, David.

[Ben Hosley]

Lenny, just be a little quiet.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, we're gonna have to discuss a.

[Ben Hosley]

Cat in this cat.

[Rachel Zegler]

Lenny loves cats.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. They say that in the. The Criterion thing that they're like, we got so concerned with the lack of a plot that they were just like.

[Rachel Zegler]

If we threw a cat. Angelic do.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean.

[Rachel Zegler]

And so they threw in a cat.

[Griffin Newman]

They're not.

[Ben Hosley]

Why this is a good New Year's Eve movie because it's about a Jellicle ball.

[Griffin Newman]

That's so true. But if an animal is in even the slightest danger or whatever, like, it does kind of keep you engaged in that weird way. Save the cat.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's the h. That then the plot really did become the cat.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

And like the phrase. Yeah. And that's why my favorite thing, when people are trying to figure out what the movie's about, there's a great scene where he's on the phone trying to get in touch with the gore finds, and he's talking to the, I guess the office, whoever it is, at the desk, and he's like, tell him that Lewin has the cat. And she goes, luy is the cat. No, no, I'm Lewin. I have his cat.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

And the plot is, Luin is the.

[Ben Hosley]

Cat, Lin is the cat.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's fucking awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

We can think all talk. There's much to discussion. There's so much, like so many ideas of what the cat represents. I feel like I know people. People really get into.

[Rachel Zegler]

People think that it's Mike.

[Griffin Newman]

It's Mike.

[Ben Hosley]

His departed grief.

[Griffin Newman]

It's his what? You know, Anyway, you know, Go on.

[Ben Hosley]

No, I think on a very simple level, it's just that the cat is the only thing bigger than him. It is the only thing outside of himself that drives him. Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's the only thing he seems to care about.

[Ben Hosley]

In a weird way, it's like he.

[Griffin Newman]

Has literally knocked someone up and has a family elsewhere and has a career he's trying to start.

[Ben Hosley]

That is the only thing in the entire movie that supersedes whatever his impulses are at any given moment, right?

[Griffin Newman]

He'll. He'll be selfless to try to save the cat.

[Ben Hosley]

It's not even. Well, yeah, but it's almost like not even selfless. Like some weird survival mechanism comes in. Like. Like, you know, I find the moment where he stares at the poster of the incredible journey outside the theater.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

So.

[Ben Hosley]

So, like, impactful and very moving. And it's sort of this notion of, like, this cat's been on this whole movie that I'm unaware of, Right? Like, he's looking at this, like, Disney movie poster and this tagline and being like, I've been caught up in my own and stressed about the cat. The cat just went, did something and came back, you know, and it. None of it had to do with me.

[Griffin Newman]

Cohen's star casting. They want a musician who can act. They don't want an actor who can sing. Like, they're looking for a musician who can act. They say they only auditioned real musicians. I wonder who they don't they. Justin Vernon and Bon Iver is one that they do say Bon Iver, which sort of makes sense.

[Rachel Zegler]

That does make sense.

[Ben Hosley]

Someone recently talked about having auditioned for this. I feel like now that it's been over 10 years on this movie.

[Rachel Zegler]

But it's not tacky to talk about it.

[Ben Hosley]

People in promo tours will talk about it. And there are a lot of stories about people being like, I bombed that audition.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, who you are talking about is Ryan Reynolds said literally that he bombed the audition for Inside L. Davis.

[Rachel Zegler]

There's no way it was for Lewin. It's what he says it has to be for. What is it, Jim?

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe that makes sense.

[Ben Hosley]

My memory and it was part of, like, this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

That makes sense that it would be.

[Rachel Zegler]

Imagining a Ryan Reynolds. Lyn Davis is crazy right now.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's.

[Rachel Zegler]

There would be a voiceover being like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep, that's me sitting on that stool here.

[Ben Hosley]

Casey Affleck talks about bombing it.

[Griffin Newman]

I could see.

[Ben Hosley]

To play. L sure see him bombing that. Yeah, I could absolutely see him bombing that. There's some other.

[Griffin Newman]

He picked up a gun and said he couldn't do it anymore and they had to wrestle.

[David Sims]

Manchester OB says that he auditioned.

[Griffin Newman]

That makes sense. Yeah, it makes it. They just.

[Rachel Zegler]

A lot of people auditioned, right.

[Griffin Newman]

They took their net into the emo pool, the sort of, like, singer songwriter pool. They didn't like anything they found.

[Ben Hosley]

But I. I think they had the sort of Armageddon problem of, is it easier to teach a musician to act or an actor to sing?

[Griffin Newman]

Well put.

[Ben Hosley]

And they started. Thank you. With the, like, let's get a singer. And none of them were up for the acting part of it. And then they were like, I guess we go to actors. And none of them could handle the singing. And it's the lead role in the movie.

[Rachel Zegler]

The lead role. And the whole point is that, like, very similar. I mean, weirdly, to bring it back to, like, a cabaret thing where it's like, why isn't Liza Minnelli breaking out of this club? She's so fucking good.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

Like, it's very much like that in this movie.

[Ben Hosley]

That's the other thing is you're like, the vibe has to be so right.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry. I have to quote Ben Affleck on the Armageddon commentary now that you've invoked it, because obviously Armageddon is the second Affleck mention correct. Is that, like, it's easier to train oil drillers to operate a space shuttle than it is to train space shuttle operators who operate an oil drill. A space shuttle operator, space shuttle pilots, whatever. Astronauts is what I call it. There you go. And when Affleck on the commentary is just like, how hard can it be? Aim the drill at the ground and turn it on, right? And think about it all that. He's so disdainful playing an oil driller.

[Rachel Zegler]

In the Boston thing ever.

[Ben Hosley]

But I think that's part of the problem of it is, like, Materialist, a film I like a lot and defend with my whole chest.

[Rachel Zegler]

Good for you.

[Ben Hosley]

Thank you. Very proud of me. Bless your heart. Has this core issue, and I remember asking you this when you saw it, where I was like, in what universe.

[Griffin Newman]

This is going to be with Chris Evans being a loser.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. That he's like a. An unsuccessful actor. Right. There's silence in the room.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. No, but.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like it's a movie where, you know, Pedro Pascal is the rich, successful guy, but Chris Evans is like, yeah, I can't get my life together. Right, right. You know, how does he get away with this?

[Rachel Zegler]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

And my thing with that movie is, like, it needs to do a little more work to characterize the ways in which he's self defeating, which you can do. Because if he looks like that, people are begging him to do like a L.L. bean catalog shoot. At the very least, he'll be all right.

[Rachel Zegler]

I was begging Chris Evans to do that after Knives out because of that sweater.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, sell me that sweater.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I did.

[Ben Hosley]

You can see that, though, if they're auditioning musicians, you're just like, you are so talented that it doesn't matter how difficult you are, the audience will think this guy should be successful. And you can also see actors playing, the difficulty of it, but not being good enough as a musician, where you're like, why would anyone put up with him for even a second? It is such a tight, tough balance to strike of this kind of guy. We all know where you're like, it sucks that he's talented.

[Griffin Newman]

Oscar Isaac. To who of whom you speak, though? It also sucks that he's talented.

[Rachel Zegler]

Juilliard grad.

[Ben Hosley]

Rachel.

[Rachel Zegler]

Juilliard grad.

[Griffin Newman]

Is he actually? I didn't know that.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes, he is, of course. Yeah. Him and what? Chastain and. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, right. That was very distressing.

[Ben Hosley]

But they've done, like four things.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, they did that so much in that movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Was that the. The show they did on Broadway? They did a show on Broadway before L. Davis. Because she popped a little before him.

[Griffin Newman]

She did.

[Rachel Zegler]

I mean, she did.

[Griffin Newman]

All right. Give him a rest. He's doing his best.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, that's the thing. He's also not white. And it just takes us a second.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Zegler]

Shout out to Latina Jessica Chastain.

[Griffin Newman]

Very white. God bless her. I enjoy. I like her.

[Rachel Zegler]

Good for her.

[Ben Hosley]

A tremendous talent. Very white.

[Griffin Newman]

Oscar auditions. He plays the guitar for them while he. And they're like, oh, are you like. Like, he's like, I've been playing it since I was a kid. And they were like, all right. And T Bone Burnett, who obviously their close collaborator on all the music, was like, he's great. He plays the guitar better than some people I know. Like, like. And they were like, great. We're casting him.

[Ben Hosley]

My. My memory also in this period Just not to interrupt you was that it felt a little similar to the True Grit thing, where there was this feeling of like, they still can't find the guy.

[Griffin Newman]

This movie a little sweaty. Of like, Jesus. Like, we. We do need a lead actor for.

[Ben Hosley]

And they're actually not going to go ahead if they don't have somebody.

[Griffin Newman]

Studio Canal funded the entire thing. 17 million. They were making it essentially kind of independently.

[Rachel Zegler]

17 million, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Pretty crazy. Eric Fransen is the guy you're talking about, Rachel, who he met at the old Gaslight. And, like, I love being right. And, like, helped him prepare and taught him. It's called Travis Picking, which is, according to Oscar Isaac, a very complicated, syncopated style of playing that's kind of like ragtime piano. You use the thumb as the metronome. I mean, I don't know. I don't play guitar.

[Ben Hosley]

None of this makes any sense to me.

[Griffin Newman]

Sounds hard.

[Rachel Zegler]

Hey, I get it.

[Griffin Newman]

And of course, he was in the Punk Scott Band, Blinking Underdogs. And he says, like, anytime that act looked like it was getting remotely successful, something would happen to it up. And it was like Lewin Davis esque. So that's interesting. I do think the Cohen should do a Lewin Davis sequel set in the world of ska. Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I'm in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Everyone's like, I don't. Ben, you help me. I don't know which one.

[David Sims]

I think maybe third wave.

[Griffin Newman]

Great. Is that 90s?

[David Sims]

In the late 90s.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, yeah. Mighty Mighty Boss Tones, Real big fish.

[David Sims]

Y. Y. Oh, yeah. Less Than Jake kind of esque. Maybe Band.

[Griffin Newman]

I will say, when he got cast in this movie, obviously, I'm obsessed with the Coen Brothers. And to me, he was like, yeah. He's like. I was like, right. He kind of popped in Robin Hood. Like, I didn't know. I mean, he was in Drive, but he's nasty. In that movie.

[Ben Hosley]

He had been a guy who was starting to kind of pop in things there.

[Griffin Newman]

You'd notice him, like, he's good in my. Much invoked the Bourne Legacy. He has a great part in that, which that is.

[Ben Hosley]

He was one of, like, 20 people on the list for the lead.

[Rachel Zegler]

Because I know the story here.

[Ben Hosley]

Please share.

[Rachel Zegler]

He heard himself learning how to skateboard and showed up. Showed up to an audition to be the lead in an action film.

[Griffin Newman]

Why was he learning how to skateboard?

[Rachel Zegler]

Asked DJ Katrona. When you have him on the show.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay, it's happening. Dj. It's happening.

[Griffin Newman]

He and DJ were gonna play skateboarding Cops to solve history.

[Rachel Zegler]

Well, no, DJs like a really, really great at skating. And. And I think sweet Oscar just wanted to learn, but decided to do it right before a really big callback before they.

[David Sims]

I'm so embarrassed. I have to correct myself. The third wave, Scott started in the late 80s.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, Jesus, man.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm really.

[Rachel Zegler]

As.

[Ben Hosley]

It's more like this.

[Rachel Zegler]

We have to start over.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

The two tone sort of.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

UK's fourth wave.

[Griffin Newman]

How many wave? I looked it up. It's.

[David Sims]

I don't think we've like firmly established the fourth.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. All right. We're waiting.

[David Sims]

Third, I guess. I don't.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like the Messiah. We're like, this fourth wave will come one day.

[David Sims]

I just have deliver the one guy who cared. I corrected myself.

[Ben Hosley]

Can I also quickly a pitch. A buddy movie starring DJ and Oscar Isaac called Scott Boarding.

[Rachel Zegler]

They definitely want to do it.

[Ben Hosley]

They're. They're skateboarding. Sky guys.

[Griffin Newman]

You're getting a budget of $5.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. Especially now in this.

[Ben Hosley]

In this economy.

[Rachel Zegler]

Economy of filmmaking. Yes. You get $5 and a dream for Scott Boarding.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, look, they rehearsed for like a week. But this, it's pretty intense because they, you know, the performances are live. Like, there's. These are not dubbed.

[Rachel Zegler]

No, they're really not. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And, you know, it's complicated.

[Ben Hosley]

Can we just do this? Oscar Isaac.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Quickly. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. His career. Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

So, like, he has some, like, young, like, teen roles. Then he goes to Juilliard. Right. Then it's sort of like reemerging as a serious actor. He's post fart man now. Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

May we all someday be in our post fart man era.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. Nativity story is Catherine Hardwick right after or right before Twilight. I'm sorry, but it's sort of right after Passion of the Christ. And they're like, these are now gonna be all the rage.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Lenny's hearing people outside.

[Rachel Zegler]

Lenny. Lenny thinks he's guarding.

[Ben Hosley]

Lenny also didn't like the nativity story, which.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, Lenny's Jewish.

[Ben Hosley]

That's. This makes sense.

[Rachel Zegler]

I mean, he is. He's Leonard Bernstein. Lenny, come here.

[Griffin Newman]

That your dog, because of his namesake, is culturally Jewish enough to resist Christmas.

[Ben Hosley]

He's a little suspicious.

[Rachel Zegler]

He doesn't understand Christmas. He likes commercial Christmas.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

Where he likes and ho ho ho and jingle Bells and presents for pretty girls.

[Ben Hosley]

Post Passion of the Christ. When that was such a phenomenon and everyone was like, this is the future. They make this big budget nativity story with Keisha Castle Hughes and Oscar Isaac as Mary and Joseph. And there was a Big push behind it, and it totally belly flopped. But that was kind of his first push as a leading man. Then there's sort of this run you're talking about of, like, Body of Lies. He's really good in. In a small role as kind of like a scummy guy. Che.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he's good in that.

[Ben Hosley]

He's.

[Griffin Newman]

He was always someone where you would notice him.

[Ben Hosley]

He'd pop in, like, the. The eighth or tenth role in a thing. So then he starts to become one of these guys on these casting lists of, like, projects where they're maybe interested in, like, launching a new leading man and trying to bump someone up. Born Legacy. Was that. That where before they decide to go to. Then king of the franchises, Jeremy Renner, there was a list of, like, 20 younger actors where they were like, do we cast it with someone who's on the brink of breaking out? Sucker Punch is one where people were like, who the is this guy?

[Griffin Newman]

He's. I mean, he pops in that movie, right? It's not a movie.

[Rachel Zegler]

I love great in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

But then it's like, drive. We like. He's in this zone.

[Griffin Newman]

I really enjoy him in Robin Hood, by the way, a movie I stick up.

[Rachel Zegler]

I think that's Tom Black Blythe's first film credit.

[Griffin Newman]

He must have been a little baby.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's like a little feral child in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Wonderful.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm fairly certain that's true.

[Ben Hosley]

But he is very good in Born Legacy. But it's like. It's a consolation prize.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

We liked. You were gonna have you, like, you get some kind of run the movie. Eight minutes.

[Griffin Newman]

But he's literally like a failed. You know, Jeremy Renner. Right. Like, he's called Outcome number three. Like, he's like one of the other ones that didn't turn into a born or what?

[Ben Hosley]

That's basically right before.

[Griffin Newman]

And you are correct that he. Tom Bl. Is literally credited as Feral Child in Robin. In Ridley Scott's Robin Hood.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Angels. I just imagine, like, Ridley Scott walking around with a big cigar and then they open a door and they're like, these are the feral children. There's just like a bunch of kids. He's like, that one and that one. All right, moving on.

[Ben Hosley]

Oscar Isaac. Not a method guy, but he is kind of infamously an obsessive research guy guy. So I'm just like, how does he get that good at the songs in a week? But I think he just goes Turbo does. Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, that's his way.

[Ben Hosley]

They filmed this in 2011 or 2012.

[Rachel Zegler]

I believe it's 2012.

[Griffin Newman]

Great question. The answer is I don't know.

[Ben Hosley]

Because I was pulling up some articles at the time from like, yeah, principal photography, early 2020, summer 2012. When the movie was in the can and people were like, is it going to come out this year? And everyone had the note of like, the Cohen don't want to rush this. They're sitting on it. They're taking their time in the edit. It's done, but they're. They're not going to push it out this Oscar season. I and because they knew whenever they decided to release the movie that would become Oscar season, Oscar Isaac season.

[Rachel Zegler]

And one person clapped and it was the person who Lenny clapping.

[Griffin Newman]

They're going out on a balcony. We're just seeing Griffin livestream that jokes in his eyes.

[Ben Hosley]

Big strong dog tears.

[Griffin Newman]

To be fair, I am holding a giant bone in the air. Oscar Isaac, good quote from him. I thought a lot about the comedy of resilience and why sometimes we find someone going through hardship. Fun, funny, happens in Chekhov a lot. I thought about Buster Keaton, someone who's constantly going through near death experiences. Death experiences. Yet we laugh, we root for him, but his face is melancholic, you know, Like, I like that idea.

[Rachel Zegler]

Absolutely.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, like, even though it's. It's physical only in his body language. This isn't a movie with like physical comedy. The, the, the interpersonal situations he gets himself into have the energy of being like whacked in the back of a head with a bull.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes, here comes the anvil.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, I must. Obviously we don't really see him being romantic in this movie, but we understand that basically everyone at some time is kind of given a thought to Lewyn Davis, you know, tumble in the hay.

[Ben Hosley]

Although I do think because he's so hot with Carey Mulligan is so well modulated, in my opinion. Because up until that point you're like, so is the chemistry that everyone kind of gets off on how much of an he is.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And like berating him and then final.

[Ben Hosley]

Scene with her, he's a little charming and vulner and you're like, oh, this is where he gets people.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Is that like one out of every 20 times he's a real person and people fall for it and then he punishes them.

[Griffin Newman]

Just want to move to the village in 1961 and have a spare room and just see who cycles in and out of that thing, you know? Right.

[Ben Hosley]

This whole movie really makes it feel like this was the place to be in the time to be there.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, sure.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the food wasn't as good back then though.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay. Go off.

[Griffin Newman]

Just saying. Right. Probably less good restaurants, right? Ben.

[Ben Hosley]

Sandwiches cost like a dollar.

[Rachel Zegler]

There were like no ska bands and zero.

[Ben Hosley]

Absolutely zero goose egg Scott.

[Griffin Newman]

And a lot of folk music.

[Rachel Zegler]

So why would we want to go? I mean, personally, folk music is my Spotify wrapped every year. So.

[Griffin Newman]

Fair enough.

[Rachel Zegler]

I would have a good time.

[Griffin Newman]

I love folk music. I might struggle if I'm at the Gaslight and they're like, you know, here are the four Irish guys in sweaters. I mean, maybe not they.

[Rachel Zegler]

Those guys crush it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just funny that you're like, I'm here to see Bob Dylan. Like, nah, he's. He's on vacation.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's so funny. The first time I watched it, I remember that scene coming on and being like, I like their sweaters. And what does he say?

[Ben Hosley]

He.

[Rachel Zegler]

He says, I like this.

[Griffin Newman]

They have good sweaters.

[Rachel Zegler]

They go, they're not bad. He goes, I like their sweaters.

[Griffin Newman]

I tried to look up if they were like, like referencing someone specific, but not. It's just kind of like. Yeah, that kind of would pass through a lot of like ethnic quote unquote.

[David Sims]

Some like notable like sing Irish singer group that is talked about in the no Direction Home documentary. I can't think of who they are.

[Griffin Newman]

It makes. I think it would be like, this is folk music. So like here's Celtic folk music. Here's, you know, Polish folk. Like people would be passing through from, you know, lands afar or whatever.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, it's also not incidental and the Cohen's talk about this that the acts that he is most hostile towards on stage are the ones that are actually the purest version of folk music. Yeah. Are actually the most traditional version of folk music. Like that group and the harpsichord or the. What is it? Auto harp woman whose husband beats the out of him good. Are like, this is like traditional, culturally like historic folk music where it was born. Right. Done in an unsexy way, I think. And he's like this.

[Griffin Newman]

So what? What's the thing? It's not a zither. What's the thing? She's an auto harp. It'd be funny if he actually beaten him with the harp, you know, if he just came out here. It's like kind of like the old timey music, huh. They were called the Clancy Brothers make.

[David Sims]

Them and the clan or Clancy Brothers and Tommy makeup.

[Griffin Newman]

They were the Hansen of their day. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

David.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

I care about. About sleep deeply.

[Griffin Newman]

You need your shut Eye.

[Ben Hosley]

It's maybe my number one favorite thing.

[Griffin Newman]

You do. You do love sleeping, and yet sometimes.

[Ben Hosley]

You seem to struggle doing well. This is why it is important to set yourself up for success when it comes to sleeping, you know, because how you sleep is just important as how long you sleep. And I gotta say, the fine folks at Lisa Lisa, they make a mattress that really delivers on the how it can adjust to your body and your sleep position in a way that feels intentional and balanced. And that kind of support helps me fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer, which is what I'm looking for.

[Griffin Newman]

Leesa has a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep. Each mattress designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. Maybe you like the back, the side. Maybe you like firm. Maybe you like a little more give, right?

[Ben Hosley]

When they say tailored to how you sleep, the answer for me is I sleep poorly. And the Lisa goes, what if we helped you sleep better?

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[Ben Hosley]

And that's what I'm looking for for.

[Griffin Newman]

Night one on a Leesa, you will feel the difference. They have premium materials that deliver serious comfort and full body support no matter how you sleep. I sleep on a Lisa every dang night.

[Ben Hosley]

What model you got? Tell me what model you got.

[Griffin Newman]

I can absolutely tell you. And I just have kids. Check just to make sure. I have the legend hybrid with the. With the cooling. It's got the cooling thing.

[Ben Hosley]

I got the legend chill hybrid. I like to chill. Boy, does that thing chill me.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, there you go. That's fun. You do a whole questionnaire on the website to sort of figure out what might, you know, fit you best and to sort of, like, figure out your preferences.

[Ben Hosley]

A lot of options. This isn't one of these, like, do you sleep well or poorly? It's not like, you know, some of these mattress companies is a binary. Right. Harder firm. No, they get into the details.

[Griffin Newman]

They got free shipping. They got easy returns. They got a hundred night sleep trials. So you can try it out, see how you like it. If you don't like it, send it back.

[Ben Hosley]

Ship CEO in a box.

[Griffin Newman]

They're West Elm's go to mattress partner. Did you know that?

[Ben Hosley]

I didn't know that. And I love to learn that.

[Griffin Newman]

They were awarded best hybrid mattress by the New York Times. Wire cutter.

[Ben Hosley]

Cut, cut, snip, snip.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. So go to leesa.com for the Black Friday early access sale with 25% off mattresses. Plus get an extra $50 off with promo code Blankcheck, exclusive for our listeners. That's L E-E-S a.com promo code blank check for 25% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off support our show. Let them know that we sent you after checkout. That's Lisa.com promo code blank check. One word. Oscar consulted with his Juilliard teacher, Moni Yakim. Just. This is what interested me.

[Ben Hosley]

Excuse me.

[Griffin Newman]

Go ahead.

[Ben Hosley]

Most famous for.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Being the movement coach who cracked RoboCop.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Right. So as Oscar says, a famous that he learned movement from him.

[Ben Hosley]

Often invoked on this show. RoboCop, perhaps my favorite movie ever.

[Griffin Newman]

And he. Robocop's got a specific gate.

[Ben Hosley]

Peter Weller will never not credit Moni Yakim.

[Rachel Zegler]

I love that.

[Griffin Newman]

Oscar also credits him for what he calls a walking like a camel against the wind, which is how Lewin's always, like, a little hunched and like, always feels like the wind is, like, blowing in his face. Ye like which I really love.

[Rachel Zegler]

That movie does look so cold, doesn't it?

[Griffin Newman]

It does look.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's one of those where you're watching it. I'm freezing.

[Ben Hosley]

Watching one of the great winter movies and especially, like, northeast winter movies. Yeah. But like, you're Peter Weller. They put a difficult suit on you. You go, I can't move. Call Moni Yakim. Most people in Oscar Isaac's position wouldn't say, I obviously need to call in a movement coach for this.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely. They would more be focused on the music or the whatever. Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

But he's just right.

[Ben Hosley]

His walk is like half of the the movie.

[Rachel Zegler]

And this is why he's not like, like, you know, a method actor, but somebody who loves to research.

[Griffin Newman]

Loves. Love to think about the crowd. Timberlake comes to them through Scott Rudin. Normal guy.

[Ben Hosley]

Normal guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Carrie Mulan's obviously bubbling around. She's getting more famous. I feel like an education is like.

[Ben Hosley]

Two or three years before 2009.

[Rachel Zegler]

She's brilliant. She's got the best line reading in the whole movie, which is.

[Griffin Newman]

It's got the best bangs in the whole movie.

[Rachel Zegler]

Ready?

[Ben Hosley]

Give it to us.

[Griffin Newman]

Rachel's kind of coiling to.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm preparing. I'm talking. I just got off the phone with Moniya Kim, and I'm ready to. No. I should have made you wear double condoms. Well, we shouldn't have done it in the first place. But if you ever do it again, which is a favor to women everywhere, you should not. But if you do, you should be wearing condom on condom and wrap it in electrical tape. You should just walk around always inside a great big condom, because you are shit. You should not be in contact with any other living thing being. Shit it. Lenny's clapping again.

[Ben Hosley]

I need the listener to know Rachel was looking at nothing.

[Griffin Newman]

Rachel ain't got no screen propped up in front of her. She just did that.

[Rachel Zegler]

No, that's. That is line reading of all time.

[Griffin Newman]

Great.

[Ben Hosley]

It's incredible.

[Rachel Zegler]

I love her so much.

[Ben Hosley]

So goodness.

[Rachel Zegler]

She really is. And she gets to a point where. Like the. The female lead in Cripple of Englishman where it's like, girl, come on now. Come on. But that is. That's a good performance in my opinion, where you're like. Like you're mad at her for being so negative towards what is already such a negative plot and negative situation. And then you kind of end the movie. You love her for a second with her getting the gaslight for him, but then you realize how she did it.

[Ben Hosley]

But also, the two of them had just done Drive together.

[Griffin Newman]

That's right.

[Ben Hosley]

Of course, they did drive together married. But a very different vibe in their relationship. They clearly have some.

[Griffin Newman]

Not a great marriage. I'll say.

[Ben Hosley]

But she's in. Right? It's like an education's 09. Public enemy. Emmys and Brothers are the same year. Small roles. Wall Street. Money never sleeps. Normal movie, normal production. Never Let me go are 2010 drive and shame or 2011?

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like Drive and Shame are her first post Oscar nom. Like projects where she's popping.

[Ben Hosley]

And then this and Great Gatsby are the same year.

[Rachel Zegler]

Very much in this and Great Gatsby being the same year is so what? Because it's such like. It's really like Rachel McAdams doing Notebook and Mean Girls where you're like, these are two completely different films, completely different performances.

[Ben Hosley]

Is phenomenal.

[Rachel Zegler]

Disappears into both. And she's fantastic.

[Ben Hosley]

Agreed.

[Griffin Newman]

Love her. And Far from the Madding Crowd. Highly recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it.

[Ben Hosley]

I've never seen that.

[Rachel Zegler]

I've never seen it either.

[Griffin Newman]

Check it out. So John Goodman. So Timberlake, blah. Mulligan, blah. John Goodman. Here's a quote from him. You know this quote?

[Rachel Zegler]

He.

[Ben Hosley]

He had not worked with him since a brother. I do not know the quote.

[Griffin Newman]

I got an email from Ethan that said, quote, madman, We've got something you might be interested in.

[Ben Hosley]

In.

[Griffin Newman]

That's all.

[Ben Hosley]

I. I think he's like the ghost of Christmas Future in this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

Of course. Doesn't know how to not become this.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, okay, fine. But it's like, yeah, he's the curdled. Like he hates everything. He's considers himself a genius. Musical genius.

[Ben Hosley]

And now he's the guy in the back of the car yelling at everyone.

[Griffin Newman]

Else for being wrong, watching the world pass him by.

[David Sims]

Jazz snob.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

One of the were snobs.

[Rachel Zegler]

Unlike Scoff. And.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, this is what I was gonna say. Cool. You're like, 25 years from now, Lewin could be the old grumpy folk singer in the back of the car complaining about the Scott musicians up front.

[Griffin Newman]

It's kind of what Dave Van Runk became. Yeah. It's like, right. Yeah, You. You sort of stuck here.

[Rachel Zegler]

Can I say, though, please. Garrett Hedland. This was the first hot. In this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

He's so hot. And I feel like this is the first time he'd been around. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, Hollywood was pushing him very much. Like, we want this to be a guy.

[Rachel Zegler]

Was this pre Tron or post Post Tron. No way.

[Griffin Newman]

And I had always been like, oh, yeah, he's fine. He's handsome. Like, I get.

[Ben Hosley]

Why is everyone so crazy?

[Griffin Newman]

This one, I was like. And he barely speaks, obviously.

[Rachel Zegler]

He literally has, like, one line in it when he's reading poetry in the diner.

[Griffin Newman]

I love him.

[Rachel Zegler]

Or the road. Stop wherever they go.

[Ben Hosley]

No, it. It is. I had that exact same feeling, which was like, they've been pushing this guy so hard, and he's fine. What's the deal? And then you watch him in this, and you're like, I get. Get it.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's captivating.

[Ben Hosley]

I get it. No one else has captured this, but clearly the guy has the juice. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Now he's the Tulsa King.

[Ben Hosley]

Now he's. Well, he's.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, that's.

[Ben Hosley]

Sly is the Tulsa King on Tulsa King.

[Griffin Newman]

He is beautiful. Big fan of him in general. They shoot this movie mostly in Brooklyn in the Lower east side. The actual village, of course, as they say, is basically too noisy, like, visually for them. Right. To do all the period stuff.

[Rachel Zegler]

Have you seen. You've seen the paparazzi photos from those shoots with the stuffed cat? Yeah, yeah. The cat that looks like one of the webkin. Like, it's such. It looks like a webkin. Oscar Isaac and his emotional support. Webkin is very cute. It's fantastic.

[Ben Hosley]

They talk a lot about. I feel like when Ethan talks about his burnout and what eventually caused this.

[Griffin Newman]

Was a really hard, annoying movie to make. And here is his webkin.

[Rachel Zegler]

Look at that. It's like a webkin.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's so cute.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, of course, is the biggest cat person in the room, I would feel. Yes.

[David Sims]

I have a cat named Pig.

[Rachel Zegler]

Wait. Cutest name for a Cat ever actually. Oh my God.

[David Sims]

Inspired by Miss Piggy.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh my God. Even better.

[David Sims]

She's 17 years old.

[Ben Hosley]

Years young. Okay, there we go.

[David Sims]

She's asthmatic. She's diabetic.

[Griffin Newman]

No, she's 17 is impressive.

[Rachel Zegler]

17 is amazing. God bless.

[Ben Hosley]

I was just gonna say that I feel like Ethan points back to the process of working with the cat on this movie as one of the things that like broke him 100 hence the Webkins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Truly. But he was just like oh it'd be fun to put a cat at the center of the movie. That kind of gives the story like a pulse of drive and you're like oh my God. The amount of scenes that are driven by a cat needing to start one place and end up in another place.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, that's right. And it's just.

[Ben Hosley]

Have you ever worked with a cat?

[Rachel Zegler]

I don't think so.

[Ben Hosley]

It's a fucking nightmare.

[Rachel Zegler]

No, I've worked, you know I've only like worked with dogs and birds and stuff. Snakes. I've worked with snakes.

[Ben Hosley]

You know to them.

[Rachel Zegler]

I did.

[Ben Hosley]

I, I did a multi camera pilot with a cat where the cat was supposed to be a big part of it and genuinely think the process of working with the cat was 50% of why the show was not picked up.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's wild.

[Ben Hosley]

Because it was just.

[Rachel Zegler]

They're not like trainable.

[Ben Hosley]

That's handler was there and they'd be like so like the timing is on this line. The cat needs to go from here to there. And the trainer was like yeah, that's.

[Rachel Zegler]

Not going to happen.

[Ben Hosley]

I'll see what I can do.

[Rachel Zegler]

She'll do what she wants to do.

[Ben Hosley]

And the producer was like who's this cat wrangler we got? Like we can't get someone better than this. And they were like that is the best.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's the best cat.

[Ben Hosley]

She's just being honest with you that you're never going to be able to get them to do what you want.

[Rachel Zegler]

And that's why. What's his name on. Was it. Is it Salem? On. Oh, Sabrina was an animatronic.

[Griffin Newman]

Seamless.

[Rachel Zegler]

Was it?

[Griffin Newman]

I never knew that was a robot.

[Rachel Zegler]

You couldn't tell.

[Ben Hosley]

It's basically a like a broken clock. Is is right twice a day process working with the cat on camera. You do 200 takes and eventually one of them will accidentally be.

[Griffin Newman]

I like how Salem was so busted and then they upgraded to a slightly less busted Salem. He was always funny by the way.

[Rachel Zegler]

He always like the background though. Like when he leaves a scene it is A real. And I kind of love that.

[Ben Hosley]

I. I don't want to rain on anyone's Salem parade here. I should acknowledge that Salem did just headline the Riyadh Comedy Festival.

[Rachel Zegler]

You're fucking kidding.

[Ben Hosley]

And it was. It was the newer puppet. It's the better one.

[Griffin Newman]

And then when he walked off stage, it was a real cat. They were like, everyone look over there for a second. And then when they look back, it was a real cat.

[Ben Hosley]

Funny every time.

[Rachel Zegler]

Not meant to be a joke.

[Ben Hosley]

Funniest thing on the show.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

Roger Deakins does not shoot this movie, guys. They're longtime cinematographer. He was busy making the sky fall, Let it crumble.

[Rachel Zegler]

The sky fall, Let it crumble.

[Ben Hosley]

Can you.

[Rachel Zegler]

We will stand tall.

[Griffin Newman]

We will stand tall and face it all together.

[Ben Hosley]

We have to face it all together. Here's a pitch. What if you play James Bond, the Bond girl and sing this song.

[Rachel Zegler]

So the thing is, I feel like.

[Griffin Newman]

That'S like hosting SNL and doing musical guests, though.

[Ben Hosley]

It's a lot of work.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's. Yeah. Which people do it all the time. So I. Why not? Right? I would love to be a Bond girl. I'm just putting it out there.

[Ben Hosley]

But also. But also be.

[Rachel Zegler]

I know Barbara Broccoli doesn't do it anymore, but girl.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's. It's Amazon now.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And David Heymon.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

Come on, guys. David, hey, man. Come on. Come on.

[Griffin Newman]

David. Hey, man.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's gonna. If he ever hears this gig. So I'm never working with her.

[Griffin Newman]

I think as the toast of London, you should be considered.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. Why?

[Griffin Newman]

Now that you are the toast of London.

[Ben Hosley]

London's wrong.

[Griffin Newman]

An honorary citizen.

[Rachel Zegler]

So Roger Deakins didn't do it.

[Griffin Newman]

No. So Bruno Delbonnell, one of my favorite DPs who loves to shoot things like this. All smoky and cloudy. You know what I mean?

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The guy who shot Amelie way back when, who, I always have to mention, completely freaked it on. Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince.

[Rachel Zegler]

And totally fucking freaked it out.

[Griffin Newman]

One of the most gorgeous looking movies ever made about Dumbledore franchise film.

[Ben Hosley]

But he's. He's the king of making live action look like watery pastels.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ben Hosley]

So smudgy colors.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I know the. The look of this movie is divisive, even amongst people who consider it on film. A masterpiece. But obviously very, very strangely a post.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. And it's muted, but. And people tend to not understand that just because it's not colorful doesn't mean it's not good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a Movie that looks like slush. Like that is what they wanted. They were like winter in the village. Yes.

[David Sims]

The free will and Bob Dylan album cover.

[Ben Hosley]

Like a big.

[Rachel Zegler]

Literally. Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

But also New York in January. February looks white.

[Rachel Zegler]

It looks literally gray.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. And this movie somehow gets. It somehow gets at some ecstatic truth of what the cold feels like more than what the cold looks like.

[Rachel Zegler]

Absolutely.

[Ben Hosley]

I. I love the look of this.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I shot brilliantly.

[Ben Hosley]

It's very stylized.

[Rachel Zegler]

The lighting in it is for that. Oh, good. The lighting in it is fantastic.

[Ben Hosley]

Incredible. Incredible. It only got two nominations.

[Rachel Zegler]

When he is sat at the Reggio waiting for Carey Mulligan to come bring his.

[Ben Hosley]

That's the scene, I always think.

[Rachel Zegler]

And he's staring out the window. Yeah, he's beautiful. Yeah, he's beautiful.

[Griffin Newman]

He's quite beautiful.

[Ben Hosley]

But Bruno does this. He does Buster Scruggs and he does Macbeth. So as Deacon sort of gets caught in Mendes land. Can't say that he becomes I'm all the world's estate.

[Griffin Newman]

He shot the Scottish film McBiddy.

[Ben Hosley]

I appreciate you viewing this podcast studio as a theater. Theater.

[Rachel Zegler]

All the world's a stage that we're cursing the Palladium balcony, the blank check office. It's all the stage.

[Ben Hosley]

It's all a stage.

[Rachel Zegler]

I have to go sing. Don't cry for me. Bye, guys.

[Griffin Newman]

Right back.

[Rachel Zegler]

We're halfway through.

[Ben Hosley]

Bruno loves stage bound stuff, though. He loves shooting on sets. He loves being able to control the light.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

This is a movie where he's mostly dealing in real environments.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of locations.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. The Lower east side is real, unfortunately.

[Ben Hosley]

A lot of New York street shooting, but also like shooting in actual tiny, cramped apartments. Yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, subway cars and still exquisite.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

Gorgeous.

[Griffin Newman]

Carey Mulligan is married to Mumford Mumford, one of the Mumfords.

[Rachel Zegler]

Who's the voice, Marcus? There's the voice. It's the voice of Mike Timlin, who's his. Passed away his writing and singing partner.

[Ben Hosley]

But it's not him on the album.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's him on the album.

[Ben Hosley]

It is. Okay.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, wait, I don't know about the album art.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

But he's definitely the voice.

[Ben Hosley]

I know he's the voice. I just can never remember if it's.

[Rachel Zegler]

Sometimes they bring Oscar on stage and they sing fairly well together, which is so cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, that is.

[Rachel Zegler]

It rules. It rules. I've never seen it because it never happens when I'm there. So. Marcus Mumford, if you're out there.

[Ben Hosley]

I've told this story before, but my My mom wanted my sister to be bilingual. When she was.

[Rachel Zegler]

She made a wish.

[Ben Hosley]

13, 14.

[Rachel Zegler]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, she had failed to make my brother and I bilingual. My mother's French.

[Rachel Zegler]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

And so she decided to pull my sister out of school in 8th grade and immerse her in a school in France for a year to make her bilingual, which.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm so sorry. I would be so mad if I were your sister, because, like, eighth grade.

[Ben Hosley]

My last year, really normal, emotionally and psychologically balanced year to take a girl out of the environment that she knows and place her in a foreign country.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also too late to make someone bilingual. 4 years old, or whatever.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm gonna say all of it was a disaster. But I went. I went to visit them largely because it was a disaster. My mom was like, five alarm fire. We need additional support, like backup.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, my God.

[Ben Hosley]

And they were. They were subletting this apartment in France, and just this one Mumford and Sons song was on a loop. They had an ipod and a dock, and they were playing this one song.

[Rachel Zegler]

Like, Little Lion Man.

[Ben Hosley]

Four straight hours every night. Night. And like, three days in, I was just like, why the do you like this song so much? I cannot believe you listened to this song so many times. And my mom goes, the ipod is broken. We don't know how to change it to a different song. Cool. And within five seconds, I identified that they just had it on repeat and hadn't fixed it. And I was like, are you telling me that for four straight months you have listened to this song?

[Rachel Zegler]

What song was it?

[Ben Hosley]

All right. I couldn't tell you what it's called.

[Rachel Zegler]

My Dear. My Dear.

[Ben Hosley]

That one.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait.

[Rachel Zegler]

It was not your fault but mine.

[Ben Hosley]

I think that's it.

[Rachel Zegler]

That is Little lion man, isn't it?

[Griffin Newman]

I think that's one of their most famous songs, right? Little Lion Man.

[Rachel Zegler]

It was like, lenny doesn't like it.

[David Sims]

Oh, he's right to growl.

[Griffin Newman]

They are. They're a little mid.

[Rachel Zegler]

It was like, advance. I love Mumford and Sons. I will not sit here and listen to this.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry.

[Ben Hosley]

I bring this up only because I have a negative association with Mumford and Sons for the rest of my life because of this. It felt like an advanced interrogation tactics.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm. That is so funny.

[Ben Hosley]

And I was like, why wouldn't you just turn the ipod off? And they were like, well, we love music. I was like, you love listening the same song every night inside luy.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the end of my story inside Llewyn Davis.

[Ben Hosley]

That was it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's about a Guy called Luyne Davis. It's Welsh, but his mom is Italian, I believe he says, yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I love that somebody like, says, Pablo, what are you? They call him Pablo cuz he looks. Cuz he is Latino. I love that line.

[Ben Hosley]

But also Bud Grossman says, what's the end stand for? Beautiful.

[Rachel Zegler]

I love. It's a great line.

[Griffin Newman]

Guatemalan.

[Ben Hosley]

And then once again, because he's Guatemalan, says, maybe if you stay out of the sun a little bit. He's giving him the career advice. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He says 18 hysterical, insane things and then promptly has an Aaron overdose. Person probably dies. The. The, the two seconds of sympathy he gives him in silence when he says his partner killed himself. And he's like, anyway, George Washington Bridge is a terrible bridge to throw yourself.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, Grossman doesn't say that.

[Griffin Newman]

Just all the amazing things. Scott Goodman, I was like, well, John.

[Ben Hosley]

Goodman's like, it's a brief performance. He's only in like six or seven minutes of the movie. And then I'm watching and I'm like, does he actually have 15 straight pages of dialogue? All gold.

[Griffin Newman]

He comes in, attacks the racket. So good. But yeah. Luen Davis, he is a folk singer. It's okay, Lenny. Lenny, it's okay.

[Ben Hosley]

He's just practicing. You can let him.

[Griffin Newman]

What will happen if you let him rampage?

[Rachel Zegler]

He's just gonna do this for like 5 minutes.

[Griffin Newman]

What are you mad about, Lenny?

[Rachel Zegler]

He hears people in the hallway. He thinks he owns the blank check office.

[Ben Hosley]

He thinks he does.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's the guard.

[Ben Hosley]

He's official guard dog this once.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. If you live in like a busy apartment building with an animal, with a dog, like, they will. Anytime someone, like, exits out of an elevator, like, you know, it's insane.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's crazy.

[Ben Hosley]

They know.

[Griffin Newman]

L. Davis, his partner died. It's 1961. He released a solo album. It did not sell. The movie begins with him getting the ship beat out of him. Do you consider this a flash forward or not? I feel like there's. There's so much debate about this of.

[Rachel Zegler]

Whether or not it's a loop because.

[Griffin Newman]

Because it is presented differently both times, but obviously it's very similar. Yeah, I think of it as two different things.

[Ben Hosley]

Interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

But I don't really care that much. And I don't. I'm not trying to Reddit. Please calm down. Like, offer some definitive take on this. I like the idea that it is a loop with the mildest improvement at the end of he keeps the cat, you know, like in the house. He's learned a little bit.

[Ben Hosley]

I will Say this. And I said some things to this effect at the beginning of this episode. Episode. It's a little frustrating sometimes talking about the Coen brothers.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. We're trying to solve it.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

And I think we tend not to try to be like puzzle solving movie guys. But a lot of our episodes, there's been a lot of very loud, like, I cannot believe they got all of this wrong.

[Griffin Newman]

They forgot this part of the plot.

[Rachel Zegler]

Art wasn't subjective.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. That's the thing. Forgetting plot stuff. We do that all the time. We're bad at our dream jobs. But the sort of like, that is a fundamental misread of the movie. There are certain things where, like we got the. Of course, it's not Tommy Lee Jones's dad at the end of no country that he goes to visit. Like, that's just actually on us. That's a big mistake. But there's other stuff where I'm like, every time I watch these movies, I flip opinions on certain reads. I really do think the Cohen movies are like that. They really do feel like dreams where you wake up and you go, like, why the was I doing that? Like, what does that mean? And the more I rewatch them, the. The changes in where you are in your life. Like, sometimes I'm like, it's absolutely two separate events. And sometimes I'm like, it's the same event from two different perspectives. And I don't think there's a definitive answer.

[Rachel Zegler]

I don't think there's a definitive answer either. I do think they kind of not spoon feed but drop hints with the line about folk song saying it's never new and it never gets old. But, you know, a folk song is repetitive. A folk song is the same, like, melody sung over and over again to different words.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a good point.

[Rachel Zegler]

And so it's one of those where you go. And also if you pay attention to the way it's edited. What's a hard cut versus what's a fade is also a very cool way to watch this film because it fades to him being back at the Gorefines the next morning and the cat waking.

[Ben Hosley]

Up with the cat on his chest.

[Rachel Zegler]

Which happens both times.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes. And it's a fade that time. The first time it's a hard cut and the second time it's a fade. I think that's brilliant.

[Ben Hosley]

And those are two distinctly different events. Well, the cat wake ups are absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

End result is different.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. One time you lift the cat out, one time he doesn't. I. I think you're Right, sorry. Finish your point.

[Rachel Zegler]

No, no, I'm just saying, like, there's so many ways to watch it. There's so many ways to interpret it. I do think that something that we learn as we get older is that whether it's God or the universe, you're handed the same situation over and over again to see how much you've learned. And I do think that the idea of this film is to. It's weirdly hopeful, despite how depressing it is, that he's going to figure it out at some point because the first step was not letting the cat out.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, I agree with you. That is my read. It's that the multiple interpretations is the point. It isn't that one or the other is the answer, sir. This movie is very paired, in my opinion, to a serious man in a lot of ways where it's the sort of like tests of job. This guy who keeps being challenged by the universe. And the point in the serious man is it really isn't this guy's fault.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And the point in this movie is all of this is basically self created and self perpetuated by this guy. But like, whether or not they're the same event, it's meaningless to him. He probably couldn't differentiate between them being separate events. A month apart, a week apart, a night apart part. And also his takeaway would probably be the same. What is frustrating about this guy is that he isn't learning right. And you can look at the ending and sometimes I think, oh, he's starting to get it. And other times I think he's just disregarding this. The Orevar is like him putting an ironic distance to a thing that he should actually be processing in a deeper way.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's mental illness. Which is the other thing is like very much can't tell what was a month ago. What was a week ago is like that's depression, like 100% and that's living in a rut. That's being an artist who's facing rejection. But then John Goodman has this great line where he's like essentially making fun of him, but also reading him for filth. Where he's like, oh, my life's this big pile of shit. I don't remember making this big pile of shit.

[Ben Hosley]

Right, right.

[Rachel Zegler]

Which is like, you are the reason your life sucks. You can do something about it.

[Griffin Newman]

It.

[Rachel Zegler]

And those kinds of people are the most frustrating people to deal with. Where you're like, I have a solution. Do something else.

[Griffin Newman]

He right, clearly thinks, you know, maybe not the world, but the industry the scene is against him a little bit. Right. But there's. But he never rants about it or anything. There's no moment in this movie that's that on the nose. And he can't talk about the horrible thing, which is that he lost his partner. Like, that's the thing where it's obviously like. Like the mere mention or waft of it sets him off and makes sense. Like, it's like, that's the un. You know, that's the unsolvable riddle of, like, how am I supposed to get another partner? That was when I was probably at.

[Ben Hosley]

My best, which I. I think is why this movie is so personal and I feel like is one of their most like, overtly moving movies, because it is. I think it's really activating something about these two guys who work together trying to process the theoretical tragedy of losing your other half. Right. And they have, obviously, now, at the time we're recording this, been in their sabbatical, split off side projects. But, like, they didn't lose each other. No.

[Rachel Zegler]

You can't break up your brothers.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. There's like. There's like a certain Twilight Zone nightmare scenario of, like, what if they made Blood simple and then one of them died?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, sure, right.

[Ben Hosley]

What the. Would they do?

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Kind of thing. But I. Watching it this time, I really started to drill down on, does Lewin want to be successful? This is a big thing that in the past, I've read this sort of sense of resentment of h. Why is no one giving me my break? Right. And I started really, like, through the lens of just when does he indicate that he wants something more than what he has? And it happens so rarely. And when it does, it feels like what he wants is for someone just to create an ecosystem where he can keep doing the exact thing he's doing right now with slightly less struggle. Because he's not saying that he wants a ton of money, that he wants fame, that people aren't calling him a genius. Right. And he also, for how cynical he is, doesn't do a lot of why that guy and not me kind of show that you so often you don't.

[Griffin Newman]

See him grinding an ax. You're right about Bob Dylan or whoever. The. No, definitely the specter of Bob Dylan at the end of the movie. I do feel he's clocking, like, oh, is, you know, something changing? Is not this guy. Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

What's the Troy, the character that Stark Sands plays?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he doesn't. Like.

[Rachel Zegler]

There's a little. Yeah, there's a little bit of like, this is the thing that's. That's getting Bud Grossman's attention. Like, you got to play, I mean, at Bud Grossman's, like, that's crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

But then the bloodline of, like, he connects with people like that.

[Rachel Zegler]

He says, oh, yeah, 100.

[Ben Hosley]

He's a good kid.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, he's a good, upstanding guy.

[Griffin Newman]

People read his goodness and, like, the. You know, the unspoken thing that Bud is saying to Lewin of, like, you, on the other hand.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like a moody piece of.

[Rachel Zegler]

And he, like, inadvertently. I mean, like, he doesn't know he's telling him to kill himself. But he. He's like, you should get back together with your partner. And that, like, to a depressive, is very much reading. You should kill yourself, too.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, absolutely. There is an easy symbolic read of this movie in which he is literally trying to pay a fare to cross, you know, and go in the ocean. That he's like, you know, that the merchant marine are like Charon. And he's like, that's the only step left before he enters the underworld.

[Ben Hosley]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Like, and he's just in this purgatory where he's like, do I do that? Do I fucking get on the boat?

[Ben Hosley]

You know, the merchant marine thing is what I find very telling within this sort of focus I was giving on this viewing. Right. Is like, he really bristles at Stark Sands. But I think a lot of that is this has to be an act. This guy can't be for real. Right. And he's.

[Rachel Zegler]

He says, does he have a higher function when he's watching him play in the bar?

[Ben Hosley]

He's this type of guy who wants to believe that he's operating like a samurai or something. Right. That there's, like. Like an empirical code for artistic purity and that if you are more or less than ambitious than that, then you're wrong. Right. He doesn't want people who are just kind of clocking in and clocking out. And, like, this guy seems so untroubled and uncomplicated by it. And it's like, that's not enough. You need to be tortured by this. But also, if you're too mercenary, if you're too careerist, if you're too strategic, then you're not doing it for the right reasons. Right, Right. And they keep on sort of asserting this idea that it's like you could have a home to some idea, to some degree. You seem obsessed with the idea of being unmoored, sleeping on people's couches, not needing much to get by, you know, Constantly struggling to just get $10 ahead. Like, that's the thing. And I think all he ultimately wants is the idea of someone like Bud Grossman, who's a kingmaker, saying, you are good enough, that I will give you just enough money to survive. I will give you just enough attention to survive. I don't think he wants to be Bob Dylan, but Bob Dylan is a classic example of a guy who didn't play by the rules, right. Doesn't get along with people in an obvious way, but his genius was so undeniable that the world warps around him and goes, you do it your way and we're all gonna fucking support it. I don't even think he wants that much attention. I think he's just like, can I enter a system in which I'm stuck in a loop, but a loop of comfort? That's what he wants. And the Merchant Marines thing is like, okay, if Bud Gressman says, no, I'll go back on the boat. He's not fucking bitter about it. He's almost like, okay, it's over. Because even though he's lying to himself in that moment, right. I think what he's looking for is the three hots and a cot.

[Rachel Zegler]

But every home he enters is not a welcoming one. Besides, the gore finds he will never be happy. It's so interesting, though, because if you. If you watch the movie and focus on the times he's in somebody's home, right? You've got Adam Driver, who's in this tiny, tiny place. And he was also not.

[Griffin Newman]

It is funny that Kylo Ren and Poe Dameron off a Star wars movie. Two years later, it's so funny. Two years later, that's happening. It starts with them face like, inch to inch apart.

[Ben Hosley]

I certainly think this is why.

[Rachel Zegler]

Also Juilliard, by the way.

[Ben Hosley]

Isaac. I think this is why Isaac gets Star Wars. No question.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe. I mean, obviously that part was also weird where it was going to be small and they got bigger. But okay, no. So he's at Adam's.

[Ben Hosley]

Driver's.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's in Al Cody's place, who's also not selling any records. That's failure. He has a home, but he's still a failure. The marriage between Jim and Jean is destined to fall apart at some point.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

Maybe with his doing, maybe without. That's a home that's falling apart. His sister yelling at the kid. That's an unhappy home. The final home he enters is his dad in a nursing home.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. Himself having a moment of connection. And he's not the double that is.

[Griffin Newman]

The most Coen brothers going into their bag moment.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, like looking out the window as like Oscar Isaac just like plays his heart out. Then he slowly turns his head to look at his son. And you're like, oh, my God, it's a cocoon. The music has spoken through the senility. He says wow twice and then walks out and goes, my father needs to be cleaned. It's perfect.

[Griffin Newman]

The when the second union guy is like, oh, how's your dad? You know, like, he's great.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's been asking after you. Also the. You can't join the military. Well, because I'm a communist.

[Griffin Newman]

And then the guy says on something in Russian, it's the. Yeah, the word for like a fellow socialist. I forget what he's saying.

[Ben Hosley]

He goes, never mind that first guy too. He goes, you're. You're not Hugh Davis's kid, are you? And he goes, why not?

[Rachel Zegler]

Why not? Why not? It's so good.

[Ben Hosley]

It's so good.

[Rachel Zegler]

And it really is this movie. The humor really isn't A lot of the edit as is with a lot of co brothers films. Like, their editing is really what makes their writing is funny on paper. But when it's cut so well, it's fucking fantastic.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, so often the punchline is like the. The repetition of these things in different environments and different people in these very short scenes. Right. Where you know him asking Al Cody, how's your place? It's a dump. Do you have a couch? Hard cut to taking stuff out of the back of Al Cody's car. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The Gorf finds though, this is the right. The warmest home he's brought into. Do you think? What's this?

[Ben Hosley]

You know, this is my letter, son. I said, fundamentally, Mike is not a Gorf.

[Griffin Newman]

Fine. Right. But you were. Were you kidding? I couldn't tell.

[Ben Hosley]

No, I wasn't. I think he's not.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

It's like that. That I actually think is a misread of the movie. I think it is interesting. Like, I get why people flock to that because her reaction is so extreme.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not just that. To me, the read of that is like every time he's going in there, there's a bit of a strain to how they're behaving. Like, the way he answers both times. She's making her famous moussaka. They always have friends there. It feels a little like they are also not looking something in the face. That's why I like, can see the reading of like. And also, he wouldn't. He wouldn't use the stage name Mike Gorfein. He would think of a better stage. I agree with. You know what I mean?

[Ben Hosley]

Like. Like Timlin.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's come up with, like, a folk singer name. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

You know, is my read on that.

[Griffin Newman]

But then it's almost. If he is their son, like, then it's kind of crazy that he also at them because it's their son who died. You know what I mean?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, L. Davis is a bit of a, you know, bit of a caustic fella.

[Ben Hosley]

I. I think the. The number one reason I think he is not agora fine is in the father's. I should say the. The husband's response.

[Griffin Newman]

The great Ethan Phillips.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Neelix himself.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. Not the father, but the husband that he goes like, hey, look, we're all grieving in our own ways.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right, right. Which is great. I mean, like, the way they. They let him back in is. Is lovely.

[Ben Hosley]

If it was his son, it feels a little crazy. He would either be more emotional or he'd be angrier at Lewin.

[Griffin Newman]

It would be getting married.

[Ben Hosley]

I think it is him. Exactly. I think it is him correcting for his wife, kind of making it about her.

[Griffin Newman]

Great, great Robin Bartlett.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

My whole she's so great read. Where is his scrotum?

[Ben Hosley]

It's what you're saying of, like, this is the only functional home he's allowed in, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And there's like, you know, again, if you're reading them not as Mike's parents, like, they're just, like, patrons of folk music who love it. And they're like, you know, they are crunchy Ever west side guys.

[Ben Hosley]

They are crunchy liberal Jews who have become upper class or, you know, upper middle class. Right. And feel the need to become patrons and support the people doing the real work. Right. And I think to him, there's something unseemly about that, that he doesn't want to be, like, a court jester. Right. He doesn't want to be a performing monkey.

[Rachel Zegler]

As somebody who, like, grew up as, like, the singer.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

Even though that was the thing for everyone. And that's the way you make money, and that's the way you put food on your table and pay rent. You're like, I'm not. I'm. It's not. I'm. It's not a. I'm not a circus animal. This is not my party trick. This is my job. So it's like one of those scenes that I really do get, but I do have to skip it when I Watch it sometimes, because her reaction always makes me so sad.

[Ben Hosley]

They will give him the free home with nothing in return. But there's also the expectation of like, like you belong to the kingdom now, right? Like, he owes them something. Whether or not they're going to ask him to sing at every dinner. There is some unspoken sense of singing for your supper because they're people who get off on the idea that they're patrons of the arts and they are supporting the people doing the radical work while they've settled into something more comfortable. And I think the idea that he is being commodified in that way, even if they ask nothing of him, even if they are the most accepting and the most kind of, like, emotionally engaged with him, pisses him off.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And I also think her turning Mike's death into something that she has to grieve pisses him off because he wants that to be his. Unless she's his mom, which is why I think she's not his mom.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, you seem to disagree. Oh, no, no.

[David Sims]

I was gonna more just add it. I really feel for him in that I think they're praying him around. And I, I mean, that's cool that.

[Griffin Newman]

They'Re friends with this guy or whatever.

[David Sims]

I think they're. Yes. Giving him a place to stay. But I, I. There's something gross about it, especially, even with the, the fact that you keep seeing different friends at these dinner parties. And it feels very established that, like, he and these other musicians are always around and they're always like little like guest performers at these dinners, like these.

[Ben Hosley]

Curated interesting minds things. And it feels like there's like a petting zoo element of like, we brought a guy with a camera to like, look at you, you know, and he's.

[David Sims]

Living this life of struggle.

[Griffin Newman]

And they have the big bearded guy.

[David Sims]

They have the comfort of academia. They, you know, like they've decided to go that route. And I think it, it would, it would piss anyone.

[Ben Hosley]

But that's the part of him created that way. That's the part of him that doesn't want success. He wants to find a comfortable middle where he can stay in a loop.

[Griffin Newman]

Because him off everything I'm saying, what makes him happy?

[Ben Hosley]

Nothing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

He's fundamentally an unhappy person.

[Rachel Zegler]

The most content you see him is the very last. His very last. Like singing without Mike.

[Griffin Newman]

Sometimes you see the spirit move through him in a way that's more comforting. But obviously when he's performing for Bud or whatever, it's so powerful, but it's angry and it's sad. You know, it's like.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. He picks the death of Queen Jane to sing to, like, the most important, like, audition of his life.

[Ben Hosley]

Such an insane decision.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

But that. This is a guy who.

[Griffin Newman]

But it feels like a Luyne Davis decision.

[Rachel Zegler]

It is a Llewyn Davis decision. But you think it's such an interesting moment to then see how free and beautiful he sounds singing Dink Song at the very end of the.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

At the very end of the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

He'S making that decision himself. Yeah, like that. It's like, rather than, you know, doing it in front of the gorf fines. And then she joins in doing Mike's part where it's like, you know, stick, keep. You know, like, now it's like he's. Here's a new take on this.

[Ben Hosley]

When he sings it in front of the Gorf fines, he's singing, like, his.

[Griffin Newman]

Part of a duet, not doing the.

[Ben Hosley]

It is missing something. When he sings it at the end, he has finally found the way to sing it as a solo performer. I think, like, part of his Samurai Code, though, is like, I only want to borrow money from people who don't have money to give me. Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I only want to stay on a couch of someone who doesn't have enough room. Like, the idea that the gore finds, like, the cup overflow, it makes it feel, like, dirty to him. And how I make him feel more.

[Rachel Zegler]

Like a charity case.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you watched Star Trek Voyager?

[Ben Hosley]

No. I know he plays an alien doctor.

[Griffin Newman]

No, that's the thing. I just want to for one second say he plays the character of Neelix on Star Trek Voyage.

[Ben Hosley]

Course.

[Griffin Newman]

Star Trek Voyager is about a spaceship that gets flung to the other side of the galaxy. Right. So they're lost. Right. And so there's sort of a makeshift crew. That's the point of Star Trek Voyager. They've got a captain, they've got a dog. The doctor is. The hologram is, of course, Robert Picardo. Of course your favorite.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, they pick up a. A sexy Borg lady they've got. But then there's also Neelix, played by Ethan Phillips, who's he? He's like a weirdo they find. Okay, he's just like a guy. He's like an alien they meet from over there. And he's kind of like, I kind of know the lay of the land around here if you want me to, like, hang out. And they're like, okay, what do you do? And he's like, I can cook. And so he's the cook, but that's it's just so weird. It's. There's no Star Trek character like it.

[Ben Hosley]

His design is really good.

[Griffin Newman]

His design's really cool. He's got these crazy spots and, like, this weird sort of tufty hair. And it must have been such a pain to put it on every day, but every episode that he's a part of, Janeway's like, hey, Neelix, what's the up there he is.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, he's.

[Griffin Newman]

And is like, I'm trying to make, like, sort of scrambled eggs. And she's like, she, I'll see you later. Like, everyone is annoyed by it. Anyway, I always love to see him. I think he's really good in this movie, as is Robin Bartlett. Everyone is good. I, I, Everyone doing the one scene perform. Alex Karpovsky. Funny for a second. Max Cassella, such a good slime ball.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, I pin and Casella. I need to talk about him. But there is something in, you know, this kind of person. They're not bad people to go finds, right?

[Griffin Newman]

No, not, not at all. They're just a little annoying.

[Ben Hosley]

They're a little annoying. And they also, like, basically, they want to launder their sense that they've sold out and have gotten comfortable and are no longer like skin in the game. Right. And I think her singing along with him is, like, an overly personal thing to do that she feels the need to do because she feels some ownership of the music to show how much she gets it.

[Rachel Zegler]

Performative grief.

[Ben Hosley]

Exactly.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. Which is why the, her husband makes that apology of like, we're all grieving in our own ways. And to him, the insult is like, you don't need to grieve at the same level that I do. You're a guy who brought him over for dinner and let him sleep on your couch. He was my partner. My life will never recover. But for him, it's, it's true. Just like, he basically wants to figure out a way to live the exact life he's living with 5% less difficulty. And he keeps thinking, if I could just solve these two issues, I'd be happy. And he can solve the two issues, and he's not happy. Ten new issues emerge, and he fucks all of them up.

[Griffin Newman]

Well. But there's also stuff like, he needs to pay for an abortion for Carey Mulligan and her banks, her beautiful and her bangs. He goes to the clinic and they're like, like, no, it's fine. You're paid up from the last fucking abortion you paid for that she decided not to do.

[Rachel Zegler]

She Carried to terms.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And like, it's just the kind of like. Right, exactly. He. All around town, he goes to the Merchant Marine and they're like, yeah, you owe us some money. You know, it's like he just has these tiny little balances up and down that he can never quite balance out. And if he balanced them out, he'd be great. No. So he goes and records. Exactly. He goes and records the fucking novelty stuff song. And they're like, do you want royalties or the paycheck? And he's like, what the pay. I need money given the paycheck. And then at the end of the movie, they're like, that song, by the way, is going to make so much money. He's like.

[Ben Hosley]

It's such a good Cohen's judgment that I kept being like, right. Does the song come on the radio when he's on the road trip? Does he have to hear it be a hit? No, it's that the Gore finds, they're like, that song's going to be a hit. You never see him face the success of the song. You see him face the idea of. Of you probably up.

[Griffin Newman]

It would be too on the nose if he was walking around town and there's like posters of Al Cody or whatever.

[Ben Hosley]

But, like, why does he take the money?

[Griffin Newman]

He needs it for the abortion.

[Ben Hosley]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

I know. It's like he's always trying to pay the piper and then there's another piper. You're so well done to have sympathy.

[David Sims]

For being a fuck up.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Because the thing is too, the other element to this is that his manager is this old inept man.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Who he'll never get payment from.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

So he also just knows that, like, Rachel, Roadblock.

[Griffin Newman]

I think you dump your manager and switch to Mel. I think Mel is gonna take you places.

[Rachel Zegler]

And you know what? There's so many males on the Lower east side.

[Griffin Newman]

I was about to say. I mean, it would be. Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

I like, if I was Mel and his. Whoever is his, like, clerk. The lady so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Who just comes out with the box.

[Rachel Zegler]

You got it? Yeah, I got it. So good.

[Griffin Newman]

Like that moment where. Right. Where he's like, his. You know, has Buck Grossman called? And she goes and lifts up her hands. He's like. And she's like, no, I meant to tell you, we're throwing out your.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And goes and gets the box.

[Ben Hosley]

But let's also call out. Mel is like, I can't give you money, but I can give you the jacket. And Luan hates the idea that he stands a charity Case that needs the jacket. And then we watch the entire movie. Him suffer from the lack of the coat and the.

[Rachel Zegler]

And the way that they. And I'm saying the way they depict the cold, even with, like, the shot of his feet at the diner.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, my God.

[Rachel Zegler]

With his wet socks.

[Ben Hosley]

It is so visceral. That feeling of my entire foot is wet. I'm going to take my wet sock out of my wet shoe.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And rub them against each other to just try to make it some warmth, 1% warmer.

[Rachel Zegler]

But can I say, like, the. The whole movie is kind of summarized in the one shot of him walking through the snow when there's clearly a snowless patch next to him.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. Yes, yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

Brilliant.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't need your coat. And I don't need your coat, but.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm gonna walk in five feet of snow.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. And then be upset about the problem, but also not complain about it to anyone because I like the idea that I'm comfortable with the suffering.

[Griffin Newman]

I do now think, now that you're saying, like, yes, he does not, not actively complain about anyone, but every man he meets in this movie, you do feel him bristling.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's like Justin Timberlake. He's like, I hate this performative, nice husband man. Right. Who's like, you know, good at what everything he does. He doesn't like Adam Driver for being a buffoon. Really.

[Ben Hosley]

And. And to him, like a fake.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, exactly. Right, right.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

He's gonna change his name.

[Griffin Newman]

Stark Sands. He's like, you're a disgusting square to me. You know, he won't do say it.

[Ben Hosley]

Aloud, but, like, the struggle is part of it. How can you be this untoubled and make great music?

[Griffin Newman]

Like the famous Mark M episode where he interviews Nick Crow, which I think about all the time, where Mark Mayor is just like, your childhood was normal.

[Ben Hosley]

I hate it.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Crow's like, I'm sorry, I had a happy child.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. But this character is very Maroney. And the last, like, yeah, he's very Mary.

[Griffin Newman]

You're like, you're talented. I get it. And things just aren't quite lining up for you. Maybe l should get a podcast.

[Ben Hosley]

That's the answer.

[Rachel Zegler]

The thing is, he would. If this. If this movie were made right now. He would have a.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you think Bud Grossman likes me? I auditioned for him once.

[Ben Hosley]

He would not be enough of a go getter to start a podcast. If he did, he'd abandon after three episodes. He would be so active in the comments, Lou. And Davis is a Redditor. He's a Reddit comment.

[Griffin Newman]

He's burning up the av.

[Ben Hosley]

But the penultimate wtf, the solo, I feel like, was so emotionally affecting and was. I don't know if you've listen to it, but it was basically Marin talking about how the podcast got him to break the Lewin Davis cycle very much. That he was this guy for 20 years, and that through the act of interviewing people, which started out as a career move, but, like, taught him empathy and understanding and comparing other people's careers, that he, like, got out of this. And I just think, and. And Marin talks about this, that throughout his 20s and his 30s, into his early 40s, that he always had this attitude of, like, why this guy. And Lewin Davis does not do that once in the movie. I agree with you that he bristles with people, but, like, every.

[Griffin Newman]

He never rants.

[Ben Hosley]

He never rants. And every other version of a movie like this, with a guy like this who's stuck in the middle, is angry at the other people for how they're perceived.

[Griffin Newman]

The one person he takes it out on is the nice lady with the.

[Ben Hosley]

Auto arc who's the most legit thing and.

[Griffin Newman]

And just. Right. Exactly. It's the most undeserving of being heckled. She's like, I've literally never performed in New York before. He's being so mean.

[Ben Hosley]

In that Del Toro interview, they were like, that was one of her most complete ideas in the movie, is if this guy comes face to face with the real thing, he not only doesn't know what to make of it, but he's going to be an asshole. And they said the other, like, really complete idea that they write their scripts, they start out and then they go like, what happens in the next scene? What happens in the next scene? They don't map out the plot in advance, by and large, unless they're doing really nonsense, naughty, kind of noir stuff. And so they're, like, surprised as things are going along as they develop them. And they said, a complete idea for us that we never considered the alternative is that he's gonna drive past Akron and not pull off the side of the road.

[Griffin Newman]

Just notice it.

[Ben Hosley]

Right, Right. That the entire idea for the movie is there's no scenario we could imagine going there. And he said, if we do the thought experiment of he drives off and he knocks on the door. That's a bad scene from a. A bad movie. I don't want to see that. Right. The complete idea is you look at this glowing CGI town, right? It looks magical. It looks like Potter's Beautiful.

[Rachel Zegler]

The Polar Express. Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

This guy has no home and there's literally a family ready to go right there. His two year old son, his two.

[Rachel Zegler]

Year old baby he's never met, that he's never met. Dad didn't, he didn't know existed until 30 minutes before.

[Ben Hosley]

I think the movie brilliantly tricks you because you're like, well, the shitty move is that this guy pulled up on the side of the road and said, I'm really tired, I could use some sleep. Can you drive me back to New Jersey? And you think he's going to be selfish and take the car to Akan and this guy over because he needs to meet his child and instead he doesn't even do that.

[Rachel Zegler]

He does. He just looks at the sign.

[Ben Hosley]

He just looks at it and keeps on driving and hits a car cat.

[David Sims]

The wrong cat that he took off the streets of New York City.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, right.

[Ben Hosley]

And look, he shows up at her door, she probably slaps him in the face. Right? She apologizes for not telling him that he didn't get, she didn't get the abortion. But also goes like, by the way, you're a, I don't want you in my kid's life. But even still, that gives him a sense of closure and processing that he's actively avoiding and their decisions. Like what I was saying, John Goodman is like the ghost of Christmas Future. Not only does he not know how to not become that guy guy, he refuses to acknowledge that this guy is a version of what he could become. He leaves him on the side of the road.

[Rachel Zegler]

I mean, yeah, probably going to die.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not a great situation. In his defense, I'm not sure what he should do at that point. I agree it's a little bit of.

[Ben Hosley]

A tough fight, but his, his response almost every time is, what am I supposed to do? I'm walking away. Yeah, I, I don't know what to do here.

[Rachel Zegler]

Luin is the cat, Luan is the cat. Because the cat doesn't get actually get hit is the crazy thing is that he, he checks the, he checks the car. There's nothing. There's no sign of a cat having been hit. The cat moves.

[David Sims]

On your point about the Appalachian performer and like how he's so rude to her and yet she's the most legit.

[Griffin Newman]

She's, she's literally what folk music is.

[Ben Hosley]

She is the real thing here is.

[Griffin Newman]

A person from a far away place who is performing very regionally specific music.

[David Sims]

Who learned music as it was like.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. It's like an oral tradition. 100%.

[David Sims]

And there's something, too, about, like, his, like, whole, like, you know, samurai code authenticity. And yet the music that he plays is traditional music that someone else wrote.

[Ben Hosley]

That he's trying to put his own spin on.

[Griffin Newman]

He should be doing sea shanties because he was a Merchant Marine guy. Maybe he should do. Yeah.

[David Sims]

But then with the Dylan of it all, too, like, what Dylan really did, right, is he was the first one to be like, why don't we just take this music form and write original music?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

And also on the now, like, total sponge.

[Griffin Newman]

He was taking in everything, and we're spitting out everything and mixing together, and people are like, what the. You're dealing. He was like, I don't know.

[David Sims]

So when Grossman's like, I don't see money here. I mean, that's the. The thing is he's. It's so cutting, but it's kind of true.

[Ben Hosley]

He is correct.

[David Sims]

Like, what. What is.

[Ben Hosley]

What is the business want to do here?

[David Sims]

Like, what is the. The success here? I don't think he. Actually, you're right. He doesn't really have a thing. Thing in mind.

[Ben Hosley]

Dylan had shit to say. Luen Davis does not. Or if he does, he's not saying it right. He just wants to impress people with his skill at the standards. Right. And so Bud Grossman, like, he says, there's not a lot of money here, which is the most cutting in the world. And then he follows up by saying a bunch of things that are good about him, even when some of them are backhanded, where he's like, you are talented, but, like, what makes you different than 800 other guys I see every. Every week?

[Griffin Newman]

And then he's like, could you be a Peter? Could you be a Paul?

[Ben Hosley]

He gives him a path.

[Griffin Newman]

He does.

[Ben Hosley]

He goes, stay out of the sun. Cut that into a goatee. You could be the third guy that's a career. And then you can go to poppies and play your own wherever you want. But that's the version of it where that funds your lifestyle. And he immediately goes like, no, not happening. Well, he.

[Griffin Newman]

He won't have a partner again. He can't. He can't ex, like, that kind of.

[Rachel Zegler]

Emotional contract, open himself up to the possible pain.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

And that's the difference between him and the Gore finds, where they have performative grief and he has anticipatory grief.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

And Lenny is also.

[Griffin Newman]

Lenny's so mad at.

[Ben Hosley]

Lenny's grieving.

[Rachel Zegler]

So sorry.

[Ben Hosley]

But don't you think if Bud Grossman had said to him in that Moment I got an idea. I got a songwriter who can't sing or play a lick. Would you perform his material right? He would go, no, I don't do other people's songs. Right, Probably. If bud Grossman offered 10 other versions of here's my pitch for how to sell you that weren't forcing him to be part of a duo or a trio again, he still would bristle at it. The idea is that he wants someone to go, yup, I get you move here live, above the venue. Perform here every night. I pay you a stipend. It's the version of the Merchant. It's three hots in a C. You don't need to get more or less ambitious than you are right now.

[Griffin Newman]

What if Bud was like, like, do you want to be my toothbrush? He'd say, yes. Cuz this guy's full of bristles.

[Ben Hosley]

He's bristling.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh my God, Rachel, don't leave. What are you talking about? Why are you opening the door's holding a baseball card. I have my Pete Alonzo card here.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, wow.

[Griffin Newman]

My boy Pete. Sorry, mess fan.

[Rachel Zegler]

Whatever. My daddy built Yankee Stadium.

[Griffin Newman]

What was that about?

[Rachel Zegler]

My daddy built Y stadium.

[David Sims]

No, we were chatting before you.

[Griffin Newman]

Did your dad work on this?

[Rachel Zegler]

My dad actually did work construction of the new Yankee Stadium when I was a kid.

[Ben Hosley]

With his bare hands.

[Rachel Zegler]

With his bare hands.

[Griffin Newman]

This is Baby Joe from Superman. Sorry, I'm reaching to all my comfort objects.

[Rachel Zegler]

Have you seen Superman, guys?

[Griffin Newman]

I have.

[Ben Hosley]

It's good, it's good, it's good.

[Griffin Newman]

You'd enjoy it.

[Ben Hosley]

You've not seen it. Out of loyalty to DJ Katrona, your one true Superman.

[Rachel Zegler]

Well, that's the thing, you know, me and my love of DJ as Clark Kent. But it's also that I was doing Evita and I just simply. I saw Sinner and then I went back into my tunnel. So then when I came out, I could only see what was in theaters after I came out.

[Ben Hosley]

And by the way, guys, this is the only reason I keep on turning down Broadway musicals. They're begging me. And I go, I can't miss these.

[Rachel Zegler]

What's the last offer you got on a Broadway musical?

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, my God. Death becomes her. They wanted me to play both and I said, the movie's all miss, I can't.

[Griffin Newman]

You said, I can do it.

[Rachel Zegler]

I said I could do it. I could.

[Ben Hosley]

I could do with my sleep and.

[Griffin Newman]

I have excess energy left over. Roll on Broadway. Broadway would you fit best?

[Ben Hosley]

You know the one, it's off Broadway. The one?

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. Of course.

[Ben Hosley]

I Every year ago. Is this the year I hire a vocal coach and try to figure out if I could do it?

[Griffin Newman]

Please don't do it. I mean, you can't. No, he should. He should.

[Rachel Zegler]

It'll be so fun.

[Ben Hosley]

Here we go.

[Rachel Zegler]

We've got a contract.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, if you hit. Hit these tales, you're gonna go far.

[Ben Hosley]

Hey, I'm just imagining the producers of Little Shot being like, it's non negotiable.

[Griffin Newman]

We want Ziggler.

[Ben Hosley]

We have to take Newman. Jesus fucking Christ.

[Griffin Newman]

What if you were like Hermes said.

[Rachel Zegler]

On podcasts or Binding, you could totally be in Hades too.

[Ben Hosley]

I will say the Christopher Cyber part in Death Becomes her is really fun. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But nobody, Tim, nobody beats Chris.

[Rachel Zegler]

I love Chris Seaver so much.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the God.

[Ben Hosley]

I agree. He is a fucking legend. But because I have seen him do such insanely technically complicated things on stage age, I thought the performance was gonna level up to a thing I could not possibly ever consider doing.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Like his Lord Farquaad on his dance the whole time. Or I saw his Mrs. Trunchbull and.

[Rachel Zegler]

Matilda where he was amazing. I was like, do you think he feels like Death Becomes her is a nice break.

[Ben Hosley]

It does feel like it.

[Rachel Zegler]

Because.

[Griffin Newman]

Walk around.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, because Jennifer Simard and.

[Griffin Newman]

Are you gonna see him in Bat Boy?

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, my God.

[Ben Hosley]

He's playing the. The Reverend I assume so.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's exciting. I love encores.

[Ben Hosley]

He is phenomenal in Death of Comer. But it does feel like a little bit of a princess part where I think, like, they get.

[Rachel Zegler]

I think he's earned it stuff.

[Ben Hosley]

I agree. Have you seen it yet?

[Rachel Zegler]

I haven't.

[Ben Hosley]

I saw it recently. I just feel the need to acknowledge.

[Rachel Zegler]

This because we covered Paul Tazwell costumes.

[Ben Hosley]

That show is a tremendous amount of fun and is.

[Rachel Zegler]

Eric Winterling built them. They're just incredible pieces of costume.

[Ben Hosley]

It is an astonishing production. It is like, impeccably staged in ways that the scenes are introduced. I'm like, I don't know how you pull this scene off.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Like knowing the movie where you're like, there's no way to translate this right now beyond even the kind of like, magic like the Beetle.

[Rachel Zegler]

The Beetlejuice stuff that's been done. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

There. There is just. It is incredibly.

[Rachel Zegler]

Can't put a hole in a woman's stomach. And they do.

[Ben Hosley]

They do.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't say Beetlejuice one more time.

[Rachel Zegler]

I won't.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay. I could play Lydia.

[Rachel Zegler]

Sure. Hey, Mom.

[Ben Hosley]

I could do. No, the only one I would do is.

[Griffin Newman]

Is.

[Ben Hosley]

Is. Is Little Shop Yeah, it does feel.

[Griffin Newman]

Like that's never going to close, too. It's really crushing. Yeah, it's a little.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. And unfortunately, there's no shortage of Seymour's. All the most handsome men on planet Earth above 6, 3 are lining up to play Seymour. It's going great. Other things I want to talk about Justin Timberlake, who I have bristled at.

[Griffin Newman]

Just crazy decent. Maybe the two best movies of the decade. That's all.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, I know.

[Griffin Newman]

Distant Social Network. This was this period where benefits.

[Ben Hosley]

It. It felt like he was like, I want to make a serious. Being an actor, right?

[Griffin Newman]

We're going to work with really serious guys.

[Rachel Zegler]

And he's not bad in it. I think he gets the job done in this movie.

[Ben Hosley]

And he's really good in Social Network. And then he was like, great, thank you. I'll go be a movie star now. And everyone's like, justin, no, you had it.

[Rachel Zegler]

You got to be in Shrek the Third. You have enough. You.

[Ben Hosley]

The three movies of the decade, honestly, the three, there was this feeling of, like, don't do.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

In Time. Don't do Friends with Benefits. Don't do Runner. Runner. This isn't what we want.

[Griffin Newman]

Time was Money.

[Ben Hosley]

This. That was that movie and Social Network are, like, working with the best directors alive who are using your energy in such smart ways. I. I think he's really, really good.

[Griffin Newman]

He's good in this.

[Rachel Zegler]

He.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's also just. I think it's a. It's a very clever piece of casting to, you know, have such an established pop star, you know, play someone that Lewin would be chafing against.

[Rachel Zegler]

I mean, it was the era of that. Wasn't it, though? Like Adam Levine doing Begin Again and other films, you know?

[Ben Hosley]

But he, like, really underplays this. I mean, the moment that I think he really nails is when Lewin goes, who wrote this? And he takes the two seconds before saying, me, right? And he's like, how defensive am I gonna be in this response, given that.

[Griffin Newman]

I am eight levels above you in status at this point anyway.

[Ben Hosley]

But yet you can tell that he kind of looks up to L. Creat for real. It's the magic of guys like this, where even when they're shooting themselves in the foot and, like, everyone else is lapping them, they still look at them and they're like, but I want this guy's approval. Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

I want to be like him.

[Ben Hosley]

And more than anything, I don't want his judgment.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't want him to feel like I'm part of the problem. It's. Yes. I want to call out some other cast people. I need to pull this name quickly. Jerry Goldsmith. Jerry Goldsmith is Mel. No, I'm sorry. His name is Jerry Goldsmith. That's a famous composer.

[Rachel Zegler]

Jerry Goldsmith is.

[Ben Hosley]

His name is. Thank you. Jerry Grayson, who I worked with on. But we're the Gonzo.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure.

[Ben Hosley]

He played the ornery old diner owner. Oh, I spent a lot of time with this guy.

[Rachel Zegler]

Is he loved. Lovely.

[Ben Hosley]

He passed away, like, months before this movie came out. This is his final performance. He was.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's a great final performance.

[Ben Hosley]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's really fantastic.

[Ben Hosley]

Incredible.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

He was an ordinary old character actor who started out as part of a duo act. He kind of had his own, like, Martin and Lewis thing. They played in Vegas. He was a little bit of a, like, Lewin Davis of. Of his generation comedy in the kind of, like, Rat Pack Club era. And then he transitioned to being a really good character actor. He did Death of a Salesman on Broadway and had a heart attack during intermission. This is his famous story. He finally died of heart disease, but May 1, 1995, a heart attack brings real drama to Broadway. He died. They brought him back to life, and he was back on in the second act.

[Rachel Zegler]

You're joking.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm not joking you.

[Rachel Zegler]

Do you think he was the one who was like, I have to go on stage age? Yeah, Yeah, I imagine. I feel that way, too.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And. And the previously mentioned Sam Raal, one of my best friends, I brought him to. This was, like, the first movie I was ever in, back when I was an actor. And I brought him to the rap party, and Sam got, like, buttonholed by Jerry Grayson, who monologued him for, like, an hour. And Sam was in college in a film course, and he was like, I have to make a documentary about someone. Do you think Jerry would let us do it? And we went over to Jerry's apartment and just filmed Jerry talking for, like, five hours. He lived in, like, Tracy Let's Basement. He had an apartment that was just like, 20,000 blu rays. And every photo of every show he did when he was, like, 25, going, look at how gorgeous I was. And then we go see Lou and Davis together, and we're like, oh, my God, Jerry Grayson. It's the part his whole career's been building up to. And then we realized after walking out of the movie that he had died. But he's so good in this. And it felt like a beautiful capper.

[Rachel Zegler]

To his career, him saying, get the out of my office. Office is A great line read. Yes, it's brilliant. He's brilliant.

[Ben Hosley]

I'll say this too. He died with a full head of hair. The guy had great jeans. He shaved it for this.

[Rachel Zegler]

No way. Oh, that's really cool. Cuz in my head I picture him as this bald guy.

[Ben Hosley]

Beautiful, beautiful. Not a rug. Beautiful. Buffon man. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Anyone else you want to shout out?

[Ben Hosley]

His secretary is brilliant.

[Griffin Newman]

So funny.

[Ben Hosley]

Was. Let me get her credits here as well.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. She seems like someone who would be a legend. She had snuck in.

[Ben Hosley]

She's one of these people. Her name was Sylvia Cotters. She's one of these people who basically didn't hit until she was 65.

[Rachel Zegler]

Love those stories.

[Ben Hosley]

And then was in like. She's in Witness. She's the Taurus with the camera that Harrison Ford threatens to punch. Paul Giamatti yells at her in a checkout line. In American Splendor, she fights the Predator with a broom. And Predator too. Good City Hall. Mrs. Demeanor. Like this, obviously. She's like a classic. The lead of your movie yells at her for one scene kind of thing. But she basically had two careers. For 30 years she was Philadelphia's director of special events. And she did like the centennial, the bicentennial and all the sorts of things. The Liberty Bell. She worked with like seven.

[Rachel Zegler]

She cracked the Liberty Bell.

[Ben Hosley]

She cracked herself. That's crazy. It was an pissed off.

[Rachel Zegler]

I never knew that it was her.

[Ben Hosley]

She didn't look where she was going.

[Griffin Newman]

No. She didn't like the way it was looking at her.

[Rachel Zegler]

She hit it with a golf club.

[Ben Hosley]

But she died shortly after this as well. It was one of her last performances.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, man.

[Ben Hosley]

But yeah, just like lived a great life kind of supporting the arts and then finally like made it as a character actor.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's so funny.

[Ben Hosley]

When she was like 16, was on fire until 87.

[Rachel Zegler]

The two of them really do have such a funny rapport in that art office scene.

[Griffin Newman]

Lenny, this is your space. Get all over it.

[Ben Hosley]

It's your podcast now.

[Rachel Zegler]

Lenny's just having a time.

[Ben Hosley]

Does Lenny have any podcast ideas? Does he want to pitch to us?

[Rachel Zegler]

Probably like chicken.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay. Interesting, interesting. What's the format?

[Rachel Zegler]

Chicken and open running in a field.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay, so. So we. We have someone run after Lenny with a microphone in a field. With a chicken.

[Rachel Zegler]

With chicken.

[Ben Hosley]

And record what happens between the two.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, but the chicken can't be seen spiced or salted. Okay, that just has to be boiled today. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Are we thinking audio only or video?

[Rachel Zegler]

You have to have video. I mean, have you seen him? He's Gorgeous.

[Griffin Newman]

The man is made for video.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's so beautiful.

[Ben Hosley]

He's Lenny the Wonder Dog.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's the kind of content that.

[David Sims]

Should be up on Netflix.

[Ben Hosley]

Can we buy the Lenny the Wonder Dog rights? Reboot it.

[Rachel Zegler]

I feel like if we talked to Oscar.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. And we said, look, Fartman will return. Well, the twist is. Is gender swap. You play Fartman.

[Griffin Newman]

Uhhu.

[Ben Hosley]

Oscar plays someone else. It's like a sleuth thing where now he's returning in a different role, you know?

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. He's a Dr. Doom.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the move.

[Ben Hosley]

That's the move.

[Griffin Newman]

Actually, he will be Moon Knight and Apocalypse as well.

[Ben Hosley]

Moon be in Lenny the Wonder Dog with Rachel as Detective Fartman.

[Rachel Zegler]

Both of them his twin, but all three of them triplets now. Yeah, good.

[Griffin Newman]

That's him being Moon Knight.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm just gonna, like, keep running through moments. I want to call out, because this is a movie of moments.

[Griffin Newman]

Go ahead, go ahead.

[Ben Hosley]

In the Bud Grossman thing, when he gets his performance moment, right. He already bombs the joke of asking for the $5 for the record.

[Rachel Zegler]

Hysterical, Right.

[Ben Hosley]

And then the guy's like, no, I'm actually gonna test you. You're here. You have to play for me. He's unprepared, Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He goes here stage. And Bud goes, not here. They're in an office.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Right, right.

[Ben Hosley]

But still they're not on stage. They're performing in the audience with the overturned chairs on the tables.

[Rachel Zegler]

Beautiful scene.

[Ben Hosley]

And F. Murray Abraham. I feel like this is sort of at the beginning of his, like, Renaissance period, cuz Grand Budapest is the following year.

[Rachel Zegler]

So good.

[Ben Hosley]

It feels like he was sort of rediscovered after being dormant for a while. He, of course, did Ethan's Almost an Evening, his off Broadway show many years ago. And that felt like it was kind of in a fallow period for him. So I think Ethan's always been, like, a very big supporter of his, but he's doing this kind of like, sphinx like, look of intensity of active listening while Lewin's performing. And even though he has chosen the absolute worst song to audition with, he is, like, crushing it, Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

He's giving it his all. It's just a bad strategic move. And there's a moment where he looks up and makes direct eye contact with Bud. And Bud seems to be, like, very deeply affected. What he reads is deeply affected by his performance. And Lewin starts putting English on it where the last, like, 30 seconds of the song, he starts hamming it up like he's making swoony aisles and he smirks at him.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

You know, and he's just sort of like, I got him in my crosshairs. Here's the moment where I go in for the kill and then the absolute deflation of. I don't see a lot of money here. Which.

[Griffin Newman]

That, of course, is a cruel thing to say in a way. And of course. But he's just laying it out kind of plainly. It means, like, it's not. You're not good. It's more. I don't. You don't, as a commercial agent, understand how I would make money.

[Ben Hosley]

But that also. That his biggest note are you. Which is true, is you don't connect with the audience. You don't let people in. And in that moment, Lewin's like, oh, now I'm gonna let him in. But he's doing this very kind of like, phony, schmoozy, charisma thing at the end of the song to try to.

[Griffin Newman]

Draw the guy right through that. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

He's like, you don't have it. You don't. You don't have the thing that speaks to people. You're a good music musician. And it's because it's. He's unresolved as a person.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right, Right.

[Ben Hosley]

And I think there are people like Bob Dylan say, right. Who are kind of like, unresolved and don't operate by the rules of society, but yet they cannot help but communicate something that means something to other people. And those types of people drive the people like Lewin Davis insane because they're not able to point to them and go like, yeah, but that guy sold out. That guy's being palatable. That guy plays the game. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

That's how he wants to be received as just like, we're taking you as you are. And. And, yeah. I mean, it's like the beauty of the movie ending with him literally walking out on Bob Dylan playing because the guy's about to beat the out of him. And the guy's about to beat the out of him because he doesn't know how to process his emotions at Poppy telling him that he also slept with Carrie Mulligan, where he is possessive of her even though he's an.

[Griffin Newman]

He is not her boyfriend.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

Husband or husband.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

And in that final scene where they.

[Rachel Zegler]

Actually have chemistry together of in Sync.

[Ben Hosley]

He wants to believe he never was He.

[Rachel Zegler]

He was never an in sync in Pop.

[Griffin Newman]

Their.

[Ben Hosley]

Their best song, but he clearly wants to believe that in her mind, it's like, Lewin's the great love of my life. And unfortunately, I can't ever be with him, Right. That I'm the only person.

[Griffin Newman]

But he does want to be.

[Ben Hosley]

He never wants to settle down with through. He wants the idea that she wants him more than her boring husband. And the idea that she would sleep with someone else, even though the implication is perhaps she slept with him again recently, specifically to get Lou in stage time. Because she feels bad for him. Pisses him off so much that his rage gets misdirected at the most genuine folk act in the entire movie, which then leads to the next night him missing. The guy who will define folk music in America for the next century forever. And the idea, it's like, I got you on stage the night the Times is there, and you're like, great news. The Times is going to write about the guy who went on right after you. The moment Dylan goes on stage, everything before that becomes a footnote in the book. It becomes the prologue to what actually mattered.

[Rachel Zegler]

And they write about that moment in this really great book by David Hadju called Positively Fourth street, which is about, like, Joan Baez, is it Carlos Farinha, Mimi Farinha and Bob Dylan. And they talk about, like, that first night and how absolutely no other act, that night mattered. The first time Bob Dylan was ever reviewed by the Times. And it wasn't. They weren't necessarily good reviews. They.

[Griffin Newman]

Richard Farina.

[Rachel Zegler]

Sorry. Richard Farinha. Thank you. They speak of him as if. His voice, I think they say, like a machete through metal. Like sheet metal.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Zegler]

They, like, say that about his voice, but it still made such an impact, so special, undeniable.

[Ben Hosley]

Something has happened here. And everything's been leading up to this.

[Griffin Newman]

Seemed like a complete unknown in my life to know. Oh, man, I remember. Say that again.

[Rachel Zegler]

I think there's a movie here.

[Griffin Newman]

Lenny, don't growl at me. Jesus.

[Rachel Zegler]

No, Lenny knows that I also auditioned for that.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, well, we would have been good.

[Rachel Zegler]

Hey, thanks. Monica was amazing.

[Ben Hosley]

She was phenomenal in that movie. I was kind of dreading that movie because I love Llewyn Davis so much. And I remember you seeing it and telling me. The thing that's kind of miraculous about it is it actually works as a companion piece.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. 100%.

[Griffin Newman]

Because that movie is about. I mean, not to get too much on, but, like, it's about Dylan, you know, is the opposite of Lewin. He's charmed in this way that no one can understand, where everyone's like, what's your deal? He's like, it all. And they're like, what the fuck? And he he's like, I'm famous.

[Ben Hosley]

It all lines up for him. Like, people, like, pave the road underneath his feet.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And then anytime anyone's like, so what you do is great. Keep doing it. He's like, gonna do something else. You know? And they're like, what the. But it's. You know, that's how it keeps it.

[Ben Hosley]

That movie. Refusal to pathologize him is what is smart about it. That it views him like ET and everyone else is trying to make sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Why isn't there a scene where he, like, looks in a mansion on a hill? And then you cut to him writing the song Mansion on a Hill? What movie could I be talking about right now?

[Ben Hosley]

But L. Davis is the opposite movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Where he watches Badlands and it's like, Wrathland. Stop.

[Ben Hosley]

This land isn't very good.

[Rachel Zegler]

Sorry. Is that real?

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry.

[Ben Hosley]

What if this land.

[Griffin Newman]

You'll see it. You might like it.

[Rachel Zegler]

Guys, I'm from New Jersey.

[Griffin Newman]

I know. And we love the boss. And there's things about the movie that worked for me.

[Ben Hosley]

And you audition for that part as well.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right?

[Ben Hosley]

You audition for Bruce A Tube.

[Rachel Zegler]

I would have been amazing. Highways jump with broken heroes on the.

[Ben Hosley]

Last chance power drive.

[Rachel Zegler]

Come on.

[Griffin Newman]

Rachel's wearing a jean jacket and it's jangly.

[Rachel Zegler]

I have a bandana in my back.

[Griffin Newman]

Pocket covered in jingly things. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. No, I just. I love that this movie is the inverse, where it's like, let's spend a lot of time getting into the headspace of someone who cannot figure it out. Yeah. Which is just always it when well.

[Rachel Zegler]

Rendered, but it's always relevant.

[Ben Hosley]

Drugstore.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, I understand. I absolutely feel the same way. I think that's why it was so moving to me, even as a young teenager, to feel like, oh, yeah. I mean, this is. This is what it's like. And. And that is such a. It's such a teenage feeling, too, to be like, when am I ever gonna get it together? And it's like, not for another 15 years. Yeah. Like, it's just. Do you know what I mean? So I feel like it. It really does speak to so many.

[Ben Hosley]

Audiences, and to some degree, it is like. Like the worst thing you can do is trying to fight the why can't I get it together thing versus, like, trying to absorb lessons from everything that happens to you. The aforementioned sitcom pilot with the cat that didn't go. I remember having an emotional breakdown to a. A comedy mentor of mine at a bar that New Year's Eve when I was, like, 23 and I was like, my life is ruined. And she was like, the industry sucks. And I was like, you don't get it. But this was the thing. Thing. And she just looked at me and went, everything is the.

[Rachel Zegler]

Everything's the thing.

[Ben Hosley]

And I was like, no, but you're wrong. I've been in shitty college humor shorts. Those weren't the thing.

[Rachel Zegler]

She's so right.

[Ben Hosley]

With every passing year, I'm like, everything is the thing.

[Rachel Zegler]

Everything is the thing.

[Ben Hosley]

Everything is the thing. It is the whole point of the kind of cyclical nature what passes you.

[Rachel Zegler]

By is meant to. Until you learn the lesson. You will learn the same lesson over and over again until you actually, actually learn it.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. Because there's a framing of this movie that is. He had one shot, and it was to blow away the New York Times reporter at that show. But yet the performance he gives for the New York Times reporter does a good job.

[Rachel Zegler]

Is the best performance in the whole movie.

[Ben Hosley]

And it's actually a moment of processing for him. He solves something in himself there in a minor.

[Griffin Newman]

I think he has made some progress, and I think he's gonna be okay in about, like, 2022, you know, moving at this pace. I'm saying, like, it's a slow.

[Rachel Zegler]

I think it's. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. I think 20, 22 more loops of the same.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

Is also just one of those.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just imagining he's like, 95 and he's like, you know, I think I'm actually pretty healthy at this point. Like, emotionally healthy.

[Ben Hosley]

I just need to call this out because you said you think this is why the movie relates to so many people. Our researcher jj, who I I first must call out, texted us. By the way, most of the high school kids that I tutor don't give a About movies. Movies. But when they do, they have almost always said that their favorite movie star is Rachel. Granted, this is a sample of, like, five students who actually care about movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Five, Wisconsin. Love Rachel.

[Ben Hosley]

Listed her, but still. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Three of five, Wisconsin. I love Rachel. Rachel's making an appreciative face.

[Ben Hosley]

Just for the most.

[Rachel Zegler]

I don't. I don't have the words. It's really, really sweet.

[Ben Hosley]

You matter now. That started with by the way, because it was following up this anecdote.

[Rachel Zegler]

Here we go.

[Ben Hosley]

Go. I have this full sense memory of walking to a Trader Joe's in Evanston a few days after seeing Inside L and Davis. And at one point, Julie, JJ's wife and I turned to each other and we're like, that's our favorite movie. Of the year. And we just talked about all the stuff we loved the whole walk there. And then we grocery shopped. And when we got to the cashier unprompted, he immediately said, I need to warn you about this movie you should not see. It's called Inside L and Davis, and it's one of the worst movies I've ever, ever seen.

[Rachel Zegler]

And they said, this is a Trader Joe's. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, he hadn't heard us talking about it. He was just genuinely concerned we might see a movie that he thought was too sad.

[Rachel Zegler]

So the thing is, that's such a Trader Joe's employee thing to do, where they talk, where they analyze your basket and go, oh, is it taco night? None of your fucking business. Yeah, I'm a New Yorker. I don't want to fucking talk to you about my. I'm kidding. I'm so joking. But that is a likely thing where they see somebody who is. Has, like a melancholic look on their face and be like, warning, there's a really sad movie out.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And the idea that they were saying this to every person, they rung up for hours.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, probably.

[Ben Hosley]

But I think this is a movie where either you see it and, like a lightning bolt to your brain, you're like, oh, my God, that's the human condition.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Or you're like, why the would I want to spend time with this guy?

[Rachel Zegler]

No. Quite literally, yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

It is exactly what it is.

[Ben Hosley]

People who are allergic to this movie, I can't even even fault them. I couldn't understand it.

[Rachel Zegler]

I don't get it.

[Griffin Newman]

I actually kind of don't really get it either.

[Rachel Zegler]

I don't get it and I don't respect it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not like a misery porn movie. Like, it'd be different if it was, like, it was a really wrenching movie about truly, truly awful shit. I'd be like, I get that you don't want to watch that. Fine. But it's not really like. And it's also, you know, it's short and like, yes, nothing really happens, but in Cohen's fashion, does move. Every scene's really interesting.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's got great performances.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, there's this really hot guy who plays Lewin D. Davis. His name's Oscar Isaac. You can look at his face the whole time.

[Ben Hosley]

So hot. Can we talk a little post Oscar?

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

Because he gets Star wars, and he's in what is sort of designed to be the Han Solo equivalent role. Right. As you said, JJ offers him the movie. And originally his character was Supposed to die.

[Rachel Zegler]

To die. But they love him.

[Ben Hosley]

And he said, that's what I just did in Born Legacy. I can't keep being the kind of like fake out lead of a different movie who. Who's done by the end of the first act. And so they keep him alive. I think he's excellent in that movie.

[Rachel Zegler]

He's kind of the best part of that franchise in my opinion.

[Ben Hosley]

When they announced that cast, I was like, here we go. He is the guy who is going to pop from this. Because I assume that the major recalculation they're doing in the Disney Star wars era is these things need to be funny again. They have to stop being so self serious. And what we need is that kind of off the hump, bad boy, Harrison Ford energy. And Oscar Isaac is a really good analog for that. And I remember seeing a Most Violent Year with my father, which comes out the year after this. Is that correct?

[Griffin Newman]

The year after this good movie.

[Ben Hosley]

So the year before Star wars, my dad and I walk out a Most Violent Year and we both are like, we're watching 70s Pacino.

[Griffin Newman]

Pacino is the comp from that one for sure.

[Ben Hosley]

100 but Louyn Davis and Most Violent Year. And that's an okay movie that I think he. He's excellent at.

[Griffin Newman]

He's really good. I like that movie.

[Ben Hosley]

But it just felt like this guy is doing like Godfather, Godfather 2, SERP, Code Dog Day Afternoon back to back. This guy is on fire. We're about to watch like a generational run and then Star wars comes out. And a problem I've identified before is Adam Driver basically takes.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, oh, oh, oh.

[Griffin Newman]

Everything good?

[Ben Hosley]

This thing's unplugged.

[David Sims]

Yeah, well, thankfully I have a background back up.

[Ben Hosley]

Do we need to plug it back in?

[David Sims]

Just keep talking. It's okay. I got it.

[Griffin Newman]

No, Rachel, Rachel, sit down, sit down. It's fine, it's fine.

[Ben Hosley]

You're not guilty.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's my son.

[Ben Hosley]

You're innocent.

[Rachel Zegler]

No, I'm not.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not your fault that people are walking down the hallway.

[Ben Hosley]

Whoa.

[Griffin Newman]

He brought the whole Mac down. Don't worry, it's just a little Mac Mini. It's all good.

[Rachel Zegler]

You say that and then Reddit. Reddit's gonna go ablaze. Rachel Zegler can't control her dog.

[Ben Hosley]

Plays. It's just.

[Rachel Zegler]

Sorry, Ben.

[Ben Hosley]

Funny to me that there was also this notion that like Star wars was kind of a career dead end for people, right? That Harrison Ford was the only star like birth by Star Wars. And even in the prequels, the people who had heat going in. It stalled out their career for a bit. Like N. Portman, you and McGregor and the people that George discovered, like Hayden Christensen got a little cursed. And then you're like, not only is the curse reversed here, but. But it's Darth Vader who becomes the totemic leading man.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

And that Adam Driver's run for the next 15 years is. It feels like he absorbs every. He absorbs.

[Griffin Newman]

Bring this up a lot.

[Ben Hosley]

One fourth of the roles that Oscar Isaac should have had. And I'm not saying that Oscar Isaac would have done them better, but it's like he took every serious leading man role and there was no space left. And Oscar Isaac's choices in the vacuum have been a little disappointing only because you're a lot like, isn't this guy just supposed to be like. Like throwing no hitters over and over and over again?

[Griffin Newman]

I think this is the pressure you put on Oscar.

[Ben Hosley]

I put so much pressure.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't put this pressure because I.

[Ben Hosley]

Love him so much.

[Griffin Newman]

Agree with that. Sort of. I think Oscar's doing great. I love him. But I know what you mean in terms of.

[Rachel Zegler]

The one thing you can always guarantee is that he's going to be the best thing in whatever he does.

[Griffin Newman]

I haven't seen Frankenstein yet. Did you like him in Frankenstein? The Del Toro. I know. You just.

[Ben Hosley]

See, here's what I'll say. I like Frankenstein and I like him in it. A lor is the best thing in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

He's incredible in it. And Elordi now has a little bit of that energy of Oscar eyes in this era.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's just.

[Ben Hosley]

And these guys doing stuff. Interesting stuff.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. Jake's great.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's a talented.

[Ben Hosley]

I think he's an unbelievable actor.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. That makes me really happy.

[Ben Hosley]

But there's something kind of so unique and special that is captured within this movie that is such a common, complete performance and feels so unique to him. As much as I wish he could have done this like a hundred times. Going back to the idea of like, why doesn't he sing more? There's something about this as just like one perfect document.

[Rachel Zegler]

Well, that's the thing. You. You want it to be a special moment because then if. If all he ever did was sing, it just wouldn't be as special anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

We're going to play the box office game. Rachel. Is there anything else we haven't touched on the movie? Obviously talking about?

[Ben Hosley]

Great.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's just great.

[Griffin Newman]

A.

[David Sims]

Can we shout out the sister scenes? H. Because we didn't really touch upon that.

[Griffin Newman]

And I just.

[David Sims]

Cuz there's a quote here that I love that I think encapsulates the movie so well. When she's talking to him about getting another job, he says to her, and what just exist is that what we.

[Rachel Zegler]

Do outside of show business, we just exist.

[Griffin Newman]

What say to his sister. Too crazy.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Film was bought by CBS Films, of course, who I think did a fine job releasing it. And it made a little bit of money. They made 13 mil domestic, 32 worldwide. Like it did fine.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's actually really great.

[Griffin Newman]

Got a couple Oscar noms.

[Ben Hosley]

The two it got. Cinematography rapturously.

[Griffin Newman]

Received one prize.

[Ben Hosley]

It can but like rudely snubbed in. Best original song screenplay, obviously. Oscar Isaac egregious snub.

[Rachel Zegler]

The best original Original song category is very tricky though, because it cannot have been written. Like the words could not have been written first.

[Ben Hosley]

Please. With Hunger Games, man was the one to put up. And I believe they did. Yes. Sorry. Yes. Hunger Games had that same problem. Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

Because the lyrics were written in the book. It didn't count as original.

[Griffin Newman]

That's actually really funny.

[Rachel Zegler]

So stupid.

[Ben Hosley]

Even though the melody was new.

[Rachel Zegler]

Not written. Yeah. But yeah, so like that. That category can be very, very tricky. So if any of those like lyrics had been pulled from something that was well known or known at all.

[Griffin Newman]

And of course it's a lot of folk music that's already extant.

[Ben Hosley]

CBS Films, I was looking it up last night. Basically releases their first film in January 2010 and their last film in October 2019.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[Ben Hosley]

They are like entirely a 2010s thing. They had a few bangers. Completely different. Defunct.

[Rachel Zegler]

Sorry, who was this? What was the second nomination? Cinematography.

[Griffin Newman]

And what sound.

[Rachel Zegler]

Which I'll give it. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Ben Hosley]

Deserving.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's a great, great sound.

[Ben Hosley]

Lost to gravity for both on there.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Ben Hosley]

Let's throw Carey Mulligan in there. What was the thing I was gonna say? CBS definitely tried to do a kind of O Brother thing with this. There's the concert film that's now harder to see.

[Griffin Newman]

They did a concert for the New York Film Festival that was filmed at Town Hall. We performed there. And Rachel did the national Anthem via the 9th and Anthem.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, there we phone. Yes, via phone.

[Griffin Newman]

That was a true. Like, we are wasting this talented woman's time.

[Rachel Zegler]

Not at all. It was so much fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Rachel Zegler]

Y was in it too.

[Ben Hosley]

Outstanding ovation from the crowd. We made everyone stand up with their hands on their.

[Griffin Newman]

They were already doing it.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

This film came out December 3rd, 2013, mere days before my first day with date with my wife.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, that's cute.

[Griffin Newman]

Unfortunately, we went to see Dallas Buyers Club instead. She seen this. She'd already seen it. Number one at the box office is a film from the Walt Disney Corporation. Griffin. It's been out for.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, can I guess?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, you can.

[Rachel Zegler]

Iron Man 3.

[Griffin Newman]

No, that is a great guess, but that was the summer of this year.

[Ben Hosley]

What? So this September.

[Rachel Zegler]

So it's not okay. Disney.

[Ben Hosley]

Is this the Frozen year?

[Griffin Newman]

Frozen.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, yeah. Frozen came out. Heard of it? In November of that year. Right?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So Frozen's doing rather well.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm checking my notes. Quite a big hit. I mean, Frozen is one of those things.

[Rachel Zegler]

Insane.

[Griffin Newman]

Just today I dropped my daughter off at school and as was true.

[Ben Hosley]

Both.

[Griffin Newman]

As is true, almost anytime you drop a child any place someone was in an Elsa dress.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

One kid's going to be in an Elsa dress.

[Rachel Zegler]

Oh, I love that.

[Griffin Newman]

Actually, that's the kind of culture to ubiquity you cannot, you know, recreate. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

It. It is one of the most culturally omnipresent things. Like Frozen has as much saturation as, like, bananas. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Number two at the box office. Interesting. Rachel, what could this be?

[Rachel Zegler]

It's from Catching Fire. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Francis Lawrence's Hunger Games. Crashing Fire. It might.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's the best Hunger Games film.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's the best of the best. The original series for sure. And it's got the trick where they expand to imax, which I think is really cool for the games. Very, very good movie number three. The box office is new this week. From a director. I was just making fun of his new movie. Wow.

[Ben Hosley]

You were just making fun of his.

[Griffin Newman]

New movie, Mansion on a Hill.

[Ben Hosley]

It's a scoop. It's a scooper. Picture.

[Griffin Newman]

Scott Cooper picture.

[Ben Hosley]

Is it crazy? No. Crazy hearts. Earlier.

[Griffin Newman]

Earlier.

[Ben Hosley]

Is it out of the Furnace?

[Griffin Newman]

It is out of the Furnace. A film I've never seen with a Christian Bale.

[Ben Hosley]

Rachel. It's weird case you're making right now because this is a movie that absolutely exists that we talk about all the.

[David Sims]

Time in New Jersey.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, it's about guys in New Jersey who are a little unsavory.

[Ben Hosley]

Crazy Heart wins Jeff Bridges the Oscar and they announce like, this is Scott Cooper's follow up and he's got like 10 of the best actors alive in it. And everyone's a cracker. Absolute banger coming movie comes out and.

[Rachel Zegler]

I actually quite like Scott. So, like, he's a really nice guy.

[Ben Hosley]

Just a movie that made everyone love Scott.

[Griffin Newman]

Scott Cooper and I shouldn't be making fun of him.

[Ben Hosley]

Zero Impact movie. I've never seen it.

[Griffin Newman]

I've never seen it. It was a movie that made, like, not very much money and didn't get any Oscar buzz.

[Rachel Zegler]

But number three.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's opening number three and just not bad. Number four, the box office. The film I did see on a date with my wife. It is a Marvel film. The Marvel film of. Of. Of current came out about a month ago. Sort of November. The November 2013 Marvel film.

[Ben Hosley]

It's stored the Dark World.

[Rachel Zegler]

Starring Zachary Levi.

[Griffin Newman]

He is in there. I wouldn't say he's starring.

[Rachel Zegler]

Starring Shazam 2's Zachary Levi.

[Griffin Newman]

He's there.

[Ben Hosley]

Harold in the purple crayon that David and I vouch for. Very hard, fun movie that we really like that we put upper Marvel tier.

[Griffin Newman]

I really like that movie.

[Ben Hosley]

I will say I like Thor the Dark. Most of the performance seems skeptical. Yeah.

[Rachel Zegler]

I am a Marvel girly. I haven't seen Thor the Dark World.

[Griffin Newman]

Check it out. It's Cat Denning.

[Rachel Zegler]

Everyone's really love Cat Dennings.

[Ben Hosley]

Everyone's rude to it.

[Rachel Zegler]

Everyone rude. I. I know this about that film, that people are rude to it.

[Griffin Newman]

They shouldn't be.

[Rachel Zegler]

I quite like the Thor franchise from what I. What I have seen.

[Griffin Newman]

Very fun.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. It's the one that kind of takes the mythology seriously. And I'm not saying that in a nerd, jerk off way, but it's like, what if we treated this like. Yeah, they're. They're gods.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

It also looks good in a way a lot of the Marvel movies don't.

[Griffin Newman]

Number five at the box office is a comedy that kind of is a. It's a movie star comedy. Movie star. Comedy is kind of at the end of his comedy movie star era. One of those posters where he's literally doing this.

[Ben Hosley]

He's doing the face. Is it Vince Von Delivery man.

[Griffin Newman]

Bam.

[Ben Hosley]

There we go. Oh, wow. David's impression for the.

[Griffin Newman]

A pretty good impression of the poster. He's like, I have 53 children or whatever.

[Ben Hosley]

This is like.

[Griffin Newman]

He's like a sperm donor.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. And it turns out he has like 200 children.

[Griffin Newman]

Five. 533 children. Wow.

[Rachel Zegler]

Jesus. Strong swimmers.

[Ben Hosley]

This is like.

[Rachel Zegler]

Sorry.

[Ben Hosley]

A bunch of Michael Phelps in those test days. This is like Pete Griffin auditioning for everything. Struggling actor, period.

[Rachel Zegler]

I. I think one of the 500.

[Ben Hosley]

I think I straight up auditioned for 15 different kids because they kept being like, we like to read on this. We went a different way. We have six more kids. We want you to read For. Because some of the kids are like leads. Some of the kids. Kids are one scene. Some of the kids are one line. They just kept throwing more songs at me. Yeah, not in the film. Not in the film.

[Griffin Newman]

The other films out Home Front. Is that the one with Franco that, like, Sylvester Stallone wrote?

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, it's this old Stallone script that was made with Statham.

[Griffin Newman]

Stam is the good guy and Franco's the bad guy.

[Ben Hosley]

He's an American patriot being hunted by Franco as a cry.

[Griffin Newman]

Franco is an evil meth dealer.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. Who plays Franco's wife in that?

[Griffin Newman]

Of course. Winona Ryder plays Gator's girlfriend.

[Ben Hosley]

There we go.

[Griffin Newman]

Franco's playing a character called Gator. And Kate Bosworth plays Cater's mean sister. Okay, you got number seven. You got the book Thief. Is that like an inspirational Holocaust?

[Rachel Zegler]

It is a Holocaust film. It's a great book.

[Griffin Newman]

Great book. The movie bestseller.

[Rachel Zegler]

The movie's lackluster. But you got Jeffrey Rush in there, which is really great.

[Ben Hosley]

But there is Mark Forster.

[Griffin Newman]

It's Mark Forster. Did Mark Forster.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's really great. It's a. It's a Holocaust story told from the perspective of death. In the book, at least.

[Ben Hosley]

I like the sound of that.

[Rachel Zegler]

Is it. Mark Zusak is the author, I think. Really?

[Griffin Newman]

Correct. Marcus Zusak. The director of this film is Brian Percival. He never really made a lot of movies.

[Ben Hosley]

Downton Abbey Guy. Yeah. Okay.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's so funny. Brian Percival isn't. Are those. Aren't those two of Dumbledore's middle names?

[Griffin Newman]

Rachel Percival. I believe you are correct.

[Rachel Zegler]

Wulfric Brian Dumbledore.

[Griffin Newman]

And I am embarrassed to admit, I think without checking. I know you are correct. Dumbledore. Remember in the fifth book when he's just like Harry, Just experienced a great tragedy, watched someone die?

[Rachel Zegler]

Don't make this about me.

[Griffin Newman]

I think I'm gonna ignore him all year. Exactly my strategy. Number eight at the box office.

[Ben Hosley]

By the way, when's the FBI gonna release the Secrets of Dumbledore? Door. They have that list. They're sitting on the files. All of Dumbledore's secrets.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just so funny. Those. There were three of those movies and they were like. And the secrets will soon be revealed. Never. Because this franchise is done. Number eight is the Best Man Holiday, the sequel to the Best Man. Sort of like a sequel almost. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

No, definitely.

[Griffin Newman]

Then number nine.

[Ben Hosley]

The.

[Griffin Newman]

In my opinion, wildly underrated drama. Philomena with Judi Dench.

[Ben Hosley]

Picture Guy.

[Rachel Zegler]

Guys, I have a note from Judi Dench.

[Ben Hosley]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

And does it say what like I sorry I rear ended your car. It's a postage turned on your windshield.

[Ben Hosley]

How did you know what you know from not a dog.

[Rachel Zegler]

Can I just say this is the second time on this podcast I'm revealing a note.

[Griffin Newman]

You had a note from Barbara. Right.

[Rachel Zegler]

Judy came to see Evita and I went into my dressing room one day and there was a beautiful blue note and I was struggling to read it. She's got very chicken scratch writing, but apparently it's because her eyes have given out.

[Griffin Newman]

And that was she. She has very poor eyes at this point.

[Rachel Zegler]

That was the line. The last line of the note was like, sorry for my penmanship. I can't see a essentially is what she said. But it's the letterhead.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, like from the destiny.

[Rachel Zegler]

I didn't look at the letterhead. I was just trying to reading the stick and scratch.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right.

[Rachel Zegler]

It was Judy Dent. And so now I have it in a. I have it in a double sided frame.

[Griffin Newman]

Did she like you?

[Rachel Zegler]

She like.

[Ben Hosley]

More in this basic.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, Patty did it better.

[Griffin Newman]

What a queen.

[Ben Hosley]

Jun love her so much.

[Griffin Newman]

Filamina, Philamina herself. And number 10 is Black Nativity. The Casey Lemons movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Which I've never seen. Another like big ensemble family movie. I mean, it's. It's the season.

[Ben Hosley]

It's t. The season.

[Rachel Zegler]

T. The season.

[Griffin Newman]

Twas the season at number 11 Dallas Buyers Club. Soon to be seen on a date by me and my wife.

[Ben Hosley]

God.

[Griffin Newman]

Theater. What a time of time.

[Rachel Zegler]

At the Williamsburg Theater.

[Griffin Newman]

At the Williamsburg Theater.

[Rachel Zegler]

That's where I saw Megan.

[Griffin Newman]

Cauldron of Romance. That is where that. It is. The law requires you see Megan there.

[Ben Hosley]

I was gonna ask you to correct. Thank you for.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Man.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, I love this movie. Yeah, I love. Man. No, I love L. And Davis. I could watch this movie every day of my life.

[Rachel Zegler]

And I did my freshman year high school. It's. It is. It's got really great rewatch ability, actually. Because I agree, as you get older, as you go through different things, you notice different things about it. You have different sympathies, you have different annoyances. It's. It's really fantastic.

[Ben Hosley]

And also rewatching it feels like resetting the cycles of his life.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, yeah, I said. I mean, I. I actually had to like stop myself from saying this to Ethan Cohen at a party once.

[Griffin Newman]

Did you mean I met him and.

[Rachel Zegler]

I pretended that I didn't know who he was.

[Griffin Newman]

Rachel.

[Rachel Zegler]

I was really nervous. No, no, he didn't say like, I'm Ethan Cohen. He said, my name is Ethan. I was like, cool. What do you do?

[Ben Hosley]

You know, that's quite a move.

[Rachel Zegler]

You have to. You have to. I'm so sorry. I can't. Like, I really. I got so nervous because. How do I explain that? I've seen the movie like 300 something times.

[Griffin Newman]

I think you could say that to him. And he would go, oh.

[Rachel Zegler]

Or he'd go, why? What's wrong with you?

[Ben Hosley]

I do think that's how he would make that kind of joke.

[Rachel Zegler]

How much soul off do you take?

[Ben Hosley]

I think you're right that this is. He'd pull out a list of alts and they'd be all the things you just said. I don't think that's a guy who takes compliments.

[Griffin Newman]

No. I imagine he probably deflects it with a joke. You're right.

[Rachel Zegler]

And that's why I, like, wouldn't dare compliment him. He's probably been complimented enough. He does ask for. He was. He. I did ask my best friend for an opinion on his current play that is playing with Aubrey Plaza.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Rachel Zegler]

And, like, they all went out after my best friend happened to be there, there, and he was like, should I change this? Like, asked her for, like, genuine advice, and she said, I think you should keep it in. And he did, which is really cool. These are. They're really cool people. Like, they're just. I mean, you can't. You can't deny it after watching one of their films. You're, like, a really cool person. Had to have made this. And, like, they are cool people.

[Griffin Newman]

It would be funny if they were total squares.

[Rachel Zegler]

Total squares.

[Griffin Newman]

They were like, I love J.

[Ben Hosley]

Crew and. And Old Navy music.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, wait a second.

[Rachel Zegler]

Ben is right there.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Well, I mean, I don't.

[Rachel Zegler]

Right, right.

[Ben Hosley]

It's just a historian. You're an impartial historian, Ben, you.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just a former tuba player.

[Rachel Zegler]

I was gonna say there was a re.

[David Sims]

In front of Rachel.

[Rachel Zegler]

I was a. Hey. I was an alto saxophone player.

[Ben Hosley]

There you go.

[Rachel Zegler]

Shout out, tuba.

[David Sims]

Shout out, band.

[Rachel Zegler]

Shout out, band. Well, I was technically a woodwind, I.

[Griffin Newman]

Guess the sax is technically.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yes, it is.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, it's got the. It's got the metal on the outside of it.

[Rachel Zegler]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I guess that's cool.

[Rachel Zegler]

Whatever you say.

[David Sims]

I'm a SCA appreciator, and I.

[Griffin Newman]

But I. I also appreciate.

[David Sims]

I didn't want someone to come for me as far as, like, my lack of sc.

[Griffin Newman]

You didn't want some baggy, trousered fellow knocking on your door.

[David Sims]

He starts swinging around his chained wallet and ropes me.

[Ben Hosley]

What a nightmare.

[Griffin Newman]

Dies you up in some suspender, kicking.

[Ben Hosley]

You with his checkerboard van.

[Griffin Newman]

Trying to think of others. Exactly.

[Ben Hosley]

Steel toed checkerboard vans.

[Griffin Newman]

Rachel, thank you very much for taking the time in your very busy schedule to come do this for two and a half hours.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm genuinely like so honored because I love talking about this movie and I'll talk about movies with you guys.

[Griffin Newman]

It's lovely to talk to you.

[Rachel Zegler]

Time for me to plug the Evita album.

[Ben Hosley]

That's what I was gonna ask.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, please. Evita.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'm kidding. Because when does this drop, guys? When do you think?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, pretty soon. Let's. Let's find out. Going to drop on November 2nd.

[Rachel Zegler]

Awesome. So the Evita album is going to be available it's selection. So the Evita album is not the full thing on October 24th. So by the time you are listening to this, it'll be out on all the platforms.

[Griffin Newman]

And I should listen to it on a Stairmaster. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Going up and downstairs so you get the full experience.

[Rachel Zegler]

And then you should go outside and go outside on a balcony and like look up at the. Don't be on the balcony. You've got to like go outside, look up at about balcony.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Oh, right. And to listen to Argentina Don't Cry for Me. Just find the nearest balcony in your eyeline and focus.

[Rachel Zegler]

Absolutely.

[Ben Hosley]

And also tweet at Cash Patel demand the release of the full Evita cast recording.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah, exactly.

[Rachel Zegler]

I can't say anything on this matter, but just know that I feel the same way. 10 tracks. 10 tracks. The three hour musical release the full album Sung through and it's sunk through. It's an opera. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

At least A secret of Dumbledore and the.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah. Where are the Dumbledore files?

[Griffin Newman]

Is there anything else you want to plug? Is there anything else coming up?

[Rachel Zegler]

Not really. Okay, let's. Let's just like, I don't know, call your senators and pressure them to bring Evita to Broadway.

[Ben Hosley]

This is a very good issue plaguing our country.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's a national matter.

[Ben Hosley]

There is a criminal lack of a vita on Broadway.

[Rachel Zegler]

Go vote mom Donnie. Guys.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. Well, this will.

[Griffin Newman]

Election day is two days from now. If you live in New York, please.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, go and vote.

[Rachel Zegler]

Is mom Donnie.

[Griffin Newman]

And I will say when I went to vote in the primary and I was going to my early voting location, I voted early.

[Ben Hosley]

Not to brag.

[Rachel Zegler]

Hey, not to brag.

[Griffin Newman]

The Zoran canvasser came up to me and said, are you David Sims? Check and I said, yes, and she.

[Rachel Zegler]

Said, I'm a. I'm so sorry. Zoran, Momdani, friend of the Pod.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's get Zoran on. We could do it.

[Rachel Zegler]

What movie do you think he'd come and talk to you guys about?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, not one of his. His mom's movies because that would be.

[Ben Hosley]

Too personal about this with someone. I was like, if we had done Mir three years ago, it would have looked cool. And it would have been easier to book him now.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

If you would have been like, oh, you guys did that? That's like, that's cool. Right now we can't do without looking like we're trying to get. Whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

What's his favorite movie? Let's find out.

[Rachel Zegler]

We should find out. This is a big voting issue.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, yeah, we should be.

[Rachel Zegler]

What if he doesn't like Inside L.

[Griffin Newman]

And Davis Cuomo's just like, my favorite movie is Whatever. The. The best movie is.

[Ben Hosley]

Whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone agrees.

[Rachel Zegler]

Who's the other guy? Him being like, Gangs of New York is about me.

[Griffin Newman]

Sliwa was spitting bars at that debate. I cannot deny it. When he was like three.

[Ben Hosley]

One.

[Griffin Newman]

One is a joke. The parade part where they were like, did you watch it? Where they're like, what parades would you do? What parade? You boycott. And both Cuomo and Soren are like, what? And Sleep was like, the mayor should be an old parade.

[Ben Hosley]

Parades are the most important thing. I will never say no to a parade.

[Griffin Newman]

I'd be in a. It was at three in the morning. I'd be at the parade.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's amazing. It's amazing. He's like, I was shot at a 7 11. Like, it's like that. That really. I don't know. Maybe he'd be a friend of the Pod.

[Ben Hosley]

Does Zoran like, like jumping Jack Flash.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, cuz Penny Marshall.

[Ben Hosley]

Penny Marshall.

[Rachel Zegler]

Cuz Penny Marshall.

[Ben Hosley]

We always say that. Penny Marshall's next.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you again, Rachel.

[Rachel Zegler]

Hey, thank you guys so much.

[Ben Hosley]

Thank you all for.

[Rachel Zegler]

I love you guys.

[Ben Hosley]

Guys, hey. We love you. You're the best.

[Rachel Zegler]

I am.

[Ben Hosley]

You're three out of five tutored Kids. Favorite movie star.

[Rachel Zegler]

I'll take. I will take it. That's like 2, 2, 3. More than I ever thought I'd have. So go.

[Ben Hosley]

Golden Globe winner and consensus favorite. I do have J.J. burch's pupils. A.

[Rachel Zegler]

Thanks. J.

[Griffin Newman]

Great, Rachel.

[Ben Hosley]

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune in next week for he'll see Caesar.

[Griffin Newman]

Next week is Hail Caesar with Shirley Lee.

[Ben Hosley]

With the great Shirley Lee returning to the show. And I'm gonna say this very quietly because I don't want to get upset. David is very much oh, the L in that episode.

[Rachel Zegler]

You're awful.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, am I? I don't remember.

[Rachel Zegler]

What'd you do?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. I have no memory.

[Ben Hosley]

Surely gets it out of you.

[Rachel Zegler]

Yeah, I love it. I actually really love Hail Caesar. So that's great.

[Griffin Newman]

Really good.

[Rachel Zegler]

It's a great movie.

[Ben Hosley]

And as always, Detective Fartman, perfectly timed Bark.

[Griffin Newman]

Lenny's like, there's a fucking guy in the element.

[David Sims]

Langcheck with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our associate producers, AJ McKenzie McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithee. Research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social Blank checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.