Intolerable Cruelty with Katey Rich

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David: “Intolerable Cruelty” (2003) – In-Depth Episode Summary

Podcast: Blank Check with Griffin & David
Episode: Intolerable Cruelty with Katey Rich
Date: September 14, 2025
Guest: Katey Rich

---

Overview: Main Theme & Purpose

This episode delves into the Coen brothers’ 2003 screwball romantic comedy Intolerable Cruelty, as part of Blank Check’s ongoing auteur filmography review. Griffin Newman, David Sims, and guest Katey Rich revisit the film’s reputation, its place within the Coens’ “pastiche” phase, and how its stars—especially George Clooney and Catherine Zeta-Jones—fit into both the movie and their own career arcs. The trio sets out to reclaim the film’s reputation, challenge its “weak entry” status among Coen fans, and celebrate its craft, performances, and screwball lineage.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Coen Brothers’ Tonal Experiment & Audience Reception

• Impersonable Movie Stars & the Clooney Factor

  • Clooney is described as difficult to impersonate, which prompts a discussion about what makes a great (and mimic-able) movie star. The Coens get Clooney at his most stylized and physical (“The Cohens get him working his neck unlike anyone else”—Griffin [01:13]).
  • The episode revisits the “Idiot trilogy” (now four films): O Brother, Where Art Thou?, Intolerable Cruelty, Burn After Reading, and Hail, Caesar!

• Catherine Zeta-Jones’ Post-Oscar Arc

  • Her meteoric rise (from The Mask of Zorro and Chicago to an Oscar in 2002), then the immediate reversal—three big films with huge directors, then a rapid fade from the A-list.
  • Discussion of Hollywood’s double standards and the pressures facing actresses post-Oscar:

    “It was a take her Oscar away run.” —Griffin ([03:32])
    “None of them are her fault…the reason they did not work.” —Katie ([22:24])

  • Recognition that her roles in Coen, Soderbergh, and Spielberg films weren’t badly chosen, just poorly received at the time.

• The “Blank Check” Context and Fan Reception

  • Intolerable Cruelty has long been seen as “one of the bad Coens,” ignored by fans and barely defended, despite having its admirers.
  • Griffin and David want to start its “reclamation project”:

    “Even the most ardent Coen supporters…I saw that when it came out in theaters. It’s bad, right? And have never rewatched it… more than Ladykillers.” —Griffin ([11:18])

  • Ladykillers is referenced as the frequent “worst Coen” and a point of comparison.

Screwball Pastiche, Modern Setting & Aesthetic Disjunction

• Intolerable Cruelty’s identity crisis:

  • It’s discussed as possibly the most pastiche-heavy Coens, yet set in a stylized modern world rather than period, which threw audiences.

  “If this movie had been set in an arch ‘40s… it would have found its champions faster.” —Griffin ([26:10])
  “This movie is incredibly cohesive and, like, of a piece. But I remember…everyone around me told me it was bad.” —Griffin ([25:34])

• Genre comparisons:

  • Parallels with Down With Love (which was almost instantly reclaimed as a camp/classic but bombed on release) and screwball classics like Preston Sturges and Lubitsch.
  • The screenplay’s structure is said to evoke Sturges, particularly The Lady Eve—the screwball foils, fast-talking dialogue, and conversational tennis.

Development Hell: The Script’s Long & Winding Road

• The film’s journey—from hot Hollywood script, through many studios, drafts, and directors (Ron Howard, Joe Dante, Andrew Bergman, Jonathan Demme), until the Coens return as directors-for-hire.

• Clooney himself championed making the Coen draft; he got on board after “To the White Sea” fell apart:

  “Clooney’s response… ‘Can I read the Coen’s draft?’… and he’s like, ‘I would do this.’” —Griffin ([41:56])

• Budget clarity—possible reason for high costs: lengthy development, big stars, high overhead (“Everyone just got paid a lot.” —Katie [124:35])

Major Performances & Character Analysis

• Clooney’s Screwball Energy as Miles Massey

  • Overachieving divorce attorney obsessed with perfecting his image (literally bleaching his teeth for power).
  • Griffin calls out the “Clark Gable construction,” showing how the role breaks down the movie star persona and myth-making.
  • The role epitomizes the stylized “rat-a-tat” delivery and the sort of cypher-like lead screwball requires.

• Catherine Zeta-Jones’ Sphinx-like Gold Digger, Marilyn Rexroth

  • Debate over whether Zeta-Jones is the right fit, or whether the role is intentionally opaque (“the sphinx”).
  • Discussion of who else could have played it (Julia Roberts, Michelle Pfeiffer, Nicole Kidman, Sandra Bullock, Julianne Moore)—but all agree the role is written as deeply enigmatic for plot purposes.

• Richard Jenkins & Supporting Cast

  • Jenkins’ role and “croissant”/“massey prenup” scenes are highlighted as comic jewels.
  • Paul Adelstein, Cedric the Entertainer (“Gus Petch, nailing asses”), Billy Bob Thornton (as the Texan Doyle), and the recurring theme of Coens using everyone from the top to the bottom of the Hollywood character actor pile.
  • Jeffrey Rush’s opening scene as the Emmy-winning, unfaithful TV producer is divisive—seen as off-putting but also essential as a prologue to set the tone.

The Coen Brothers’ Methods and Thematic Preoccupations

• Their tendency to focus on systems—here, the “marriage industrial complex,” cynical prenups, and the transactional side of romance.
• The mix of arch, almost slapstick-y humor with moments of shocking violence (cf. Wheezy Joe’s demise).
• Use of classic Hollywood conventions (opening credit sequence, jazzy Carter Burwell score, sharply-drawn bit part players).

Meta-Commentary, Hollywood, and Star Careers

• Lengthy consideration is given to George Clooney’s career:
  • The “movie star” period: from Out of Sight and O Brother through Ocean’s, followed by the “serious” actor/producer era (Good Night and Good Luck, Michael Clayton, etc.).
  • Later career attempts to reclaim movie stardom (Money Monster, Tomorrowland, Wolfs), the “Casamigos” fortune, and his string of directorial misfires—often serving as a case study of creative freedom gone unchallenged.
• Zeta-Jones’ repeated vanishing acts, attempted comebacks, and the lack of a “true” post-Oscar comeback run.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Coens’ Pastiche Style

  “This is Preston Sturges. This is the most Sturges of any of their films. How did people not get this … seven act structure, like scenes built around dialogue and like seven internal games within a five person conversation.” —Griffin ([26:48])

• On Catherine Zeta-Jones’ Career

  “She’s married to Michael Douglas and I got kids. I’m gonna just—peace.” —Katie ([03:17])
  “There’s the post Oscar run… then the 2013 sort of attempted comeback. She has not been in a feature film since then … just TV.” —Griffin ([07:49])

• On Audience Reception

  “We tried to find anyone who wanted to come on and defend this movie. … I couldn’t find anyone who was like, yes, Intolerable Cruelty, I want to defend.” —David ([12:18])

• On Modern vs. Period Setting

  “For filmmakers who are so good at pastiche, this is one of their most pastiche movies, and yet it is committed to being dressed like a modern film and featuring modern things.” —Griffin ([24:10])

• On Gender and Screwball Archetypes

  “The character is kind of a sphinx… you need to untangle it after the fact. Only at the end do you realize everything she’s done.” —Griffin ([91:12])
  “Is Julia Roberts the obvious version?” —David ([43:02])

• On Cynicism and the Movie’s Underlying Darkness

  “The Coens are latching onto an honest cynicism … marriage has morphed from being this property merger thing to ostensibly being about love… but really, the big concern is always the money.” —Griffin ([104:08])

• On the Jenkins-Clooney “Pastry” Scene

  “A three minute symphony of dialogue… two shots reversed around a table, just on fire. Swiss watch timing and overlapping threads.” —Griffin ([83:17])

• On Koch Brothers and the Law

  “Poetry recitation. Objection. You’re on a strangling witness. I’m going to allow it.” —David ([77:16])

---

Timestamps: Important Segments

• Clooney Discussed as "Idiot Trilogy" Coen Collaborator: 01:21–01:49
• Career Arc & Post-Oscar Narrative for Zeta-Jones: 02:19–08:05
• Hollywood’s Bafflement (and Admiration) for Her First Projects: 21:48–22:23
• Blank Check Concept & Reputation of ‘Intolerable Cruelty’ With Fans: 11:18–14:46, 25:34–26:10
• Origin and Development Hell of the Script: 32:04–36:17
• The Coen Brothers Boarding as Directors; Clooney’s Involvement: 41:47–43:04
• Casting Marilyn Rexroth: Who Else Could Have Played Her?: 91:45–96:08
• Structure and Pastiche Explanation: 98:22–99:36
• Scene Discussion: Jenkins/Clooney "Croissant" Confrontation: 83:20–84:07
• Debate: Is It Too Acidic? Why Don’t People “Love” This Movie?: 127:35–129:37
• Box Office & Release Context: 131:00–134:22
• Final Summations, Guest’s Plugs, and Podcast Housekeeping: 142:11–end

---

In the Spirit of the Show: Tone and Favorite Running Bits

• The hosts riff and joke in a fast, improv-like mode, littering the summary with callbacks, pop culture references (from SNL to Preston Sturges to Joe Dante films), and recurring Blank Check in-jokes.
• Charming asides:
  • Griffin and Katey’s familial connection through her son’s love of Avatar.
  • The long-running “Box Office Game” (interspersed, highlights at [131:00–136:00]).
  • Ben’s delight in finding “merch” for each obscure film, this time a wrinkled Gus Petch shirt ([139:27]).
  • “Porch Movie” and “Blank Checkty” terminology cameos.
  • Audio ads and irreverent commercial breaks are present but omitted here.

---

Conclusion: Why the Film Deserves Another Look

The hosts make a passionate argument in favor of Intolerable Cruelty—not as a misunderstood masterpiece, but as an underappreciated, expertly crafted, arch screwball that never got the respect it deserved in the Coen canon. They urge listeners to rewatch it with a fresh perspective on its tone, structure, and style, especially in the context of classic screwball traditions and Hollywood’s strange career cycles.

---

Final Words:

“You could rank ‘Intolerable Cruelty’ as their second worst and I wouldn’t even argue with that—because you’re only putting masterpieces ahead of it.” —Griffin (144:48)

---

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David.

[David Sims]

Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that.

[Griffin Newman]

The name of the shadow is Blackjack. Your husband had told me you were the most beautiful podcast he'd ever met. I didn't expect the most beautiful podcast I'd ever met.

[David Sims]

It's a great line.

[Griffin Newman]

It is. I don't have a good Clooney. Few do. He's one of the least impersonated movie stars of that size, I would say.

[David Sims]

He's got a thing. Someone could figure it out.

[Griffin Newman]

People do it, and you're like, this is. Let's get right into the deep end here. I believe you kind of can't be a great movie star without being someone that someone can impersonate. You need to be distinctive enough that there is an ability to impersonate you in a specific way.

[David Sims]

Someone could definitely do Clooney.

[Griffin Newman]

I've seen people do it, but very few.

[Katie Rich]

You need to have, like, a hook that someone can hang on to.

[David Sims]

You fascinate me, but I can't, you know, how.

[Griffin Newman]

Could do the head tilt.

[Katie Rich]

It's a quality of.

[Griffin Newman]

He's very gravelly in this.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The down. But then in this, he's doing the Cohens. The Cohens get him working his neck unlike anyone else.

[Katie Rich]

And the teeth, obviously. I mean, that's a whole separate thing.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I think this is. Yeah, I mean, I guess. What's your favorite Clooney? Cohen's performance. Oh, he's done four.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, okay. All four.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, brother. This one. Burn After Reading. I skipped one.

[Griffin Newman]

Dale Caesar.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, His Idiot trilogy, which is now four films. My default answer is Burn After Reading, which I think he's unreal good in. When I'm watching this, I go, how could it be anything but this?

[Katie Rich]

He's unbelievable in this.

[Griffin Newman]

And there's just so much on his shoulders.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Even more than A Brother, where it's.

[David Sims]

Like, he's amazing in O Brother, but. Right.

[Katie Rich]

Well, a Brother has so much going on. Like, I didn't rewatch that one before this, but I did rewatch Burn After Reading, and Burn After Reading is like. It's an ensemble way more than this is. Like, this is just like really a two hander, but really kind of a one hander show.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's. Yeah, he's the best.

[Griffin Newman]

He's unbelievable.

[David Sims]

He's a nominee for me this year.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. It's an amazing performance. This is a very underrated one. Two years.

[Katie Rich]

Two years. And before Ocean's twelve, which Catherine Zeta Jones is of course, in.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the thing we've talked about in the past on this podcast that I found really interesting. I remember very distinctly Catherine Zeta Jones wins best supporting Actress for Chicago in 2002. I do remember that her three immediate follow up films are Intolerable Cruelty, directed by the Coen brothers, Ocean's Twelve, directed by Steven Soderbergh, and the Terminal, directed by Steven Spielberg. And upon the release of Ocean's 12, which I think is the third, that's the last, I think she fires all of her reps.

[Katie Rich]

I did not know that.

[David Sims]

Her career is over, basically.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

No, no, no, not basically. You can draw a line.

[Katie Rich]

Well, she's married to Michael Douglas. At what point?

[David Sims]

That doesn't matter.

[Griffin Newman]

That's already happened in 99.

[David Sims]

The follow up to the Run He. The immediate follow up is Legend of Zorro. No reservations, Death Defying Acts. Then two years later, the Rebound, it's.

[Griffin Newman]

Over, which sat on a shelf.

[David Sims]

It's over.

[Katie Rich]

Was there not the sense though, that she's like, I'm married to Michael Douglas and I got kids. I'm gonna just. Peace.

[Griffin Newman]

There was part of that.

[David Sims]

I think everyone was like, she. She stinks it up in all three of those movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry, that was sort of, I think, the perception at the time, it was a little bit. What happened to Helen Hunt post Oscar.

[David Sims]

It was a take her Oscar away run.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

But it's also that she made movies with exclusively incredible filmmakers. Movies that are basically. Well, the Terminal's not good, but are basically all pretty good.

[Katie Rich]

But among the least regarded of all of their movies.

[David Sims]

Yes. I mean, obviously we all love Ocean's 12 now.

[Griffin Newman]

Ocean's 12 has now been reclaimed.

[David Sims]

At the time, it was not.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, we're trying to start the drum beat here for the entire.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, we're trying to.

[Katie Rich]

I see. Yes. Which has not happened, but may not today.

[Griffin Newman]

And then Terminal, I feel like, is the furthest off. Although some will defend it.

[David Sims]

People stick up for it. I don't. I do think she's not one of the better parts of it, though. Like, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but that's a perfect example of that part sucks. It is basically designed to make the audience hate whoever's occupying that role.

[David Sims]

Get away from me. I'm sick.

[Katie Rich]

Do we think that Katherine Zeta Jones arrival is going to happen after Naked Gun has that great joke about her, which is fresh as we are having this conversation? Remind me of a joke. In my day, the only things that were electric were eels and Catherine Zeta.

[Griffin Newman]

Jones's Chicago, it's just a great show.

[Katie Rich]

So good.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's talking about the electric guitar. Electric car. Sorry, but I feel like he says three things. It might be guitar, guitars, eels. And then the third thing is so wordy. Part of the majesty of it is that they give Liam Neeson three sentences to say quickly and it goes. And Catherine Singer Jones is electrifying performance in 2002 film Chicago.

[David Sims]

Like that's what that they do that joke so many time and it's always, always hits just Liam Neeson saying a long thing.

[Katie Rich]

Well, the Buffy Tebow joke that comes.

[Griffin Newman]

Right out getting the Black Eyed Peas about something.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

From early 2000s pop culture that is.

[Katie Rich]

Still so Jackson at the Super Bowl.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. You're like, why is this guy so hung up on the pop culture from when he was 50? Like it's part of what is so good.

[Katie Rich]

He's ageless.

[David Sims]

But I don't look. I think that the Catherine Zeta Jones comeback in quotes happened in that she is back and is on Netflix's hit show Wednesday and did a National treasure show. She's around. There is no chance of a run.

[Griffin Newman]

There's the post Oscar run. There's the run. You just said that. It's like big drop off. Then she disappears for a couple years. Then there's like the 2013 sort of attempted comeback.

[David Sims]

She's in six movies in two years.

[Griffin Newman]

In 2012 and 23. It's like playing for Keeps. Rock of Ages side effects. What's the other one I was about to say?

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Katie Rich]

I'm looking at this.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, Broken City.

[Katie Rich]

What the hell is that I'm looking at?

[David Sims]

It's a political thriller with no, just one Hughes.

[Griffin Newman]

I believe it's a Hughes. Wahlberg and Al Hughes. Yes. And then there are two more.

[David Sims]

One you might remember just as a, you know, anonymous title, much like Playing for Keeps. Lay the favorite.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, that's a Freers.

[David Sims]

Huh.

[Katie Rich]

Her character's name is Tulip.

[David Sims]

Huh.

[Griffin Newman]

And then 10 giant movie stars in it and doesn't exist.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

Bruce Willis is in it. Vince Vaughn's in it.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, Giant. I mean, it's a lot of movie stars who are at the tail end. And then Red 2 is the final. Now, the thing about what we're talking about here is that this is the third of the three movies, you know, the Intolerable Cruelty, Terminal Ocean's 12 that we have covered.

[Griffin Newman]

We have covered this.

[David Sims]

We have really put a magnifying glass on Catherine Zeta Jones's post Oscar bust.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You know, like, we haven't ever talked about great movies that she's been in, such as the Mask of Zorro, High Fidelity, Traffic.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Chicago, America's Sweethearts.

[Katie Rich]

You just skipped right over that one. Not. Not on the lineup.

[David Sims]

She stinks in that.

[Griffin Newman]

A movie I rewatched recently.

[David Sims]

Kind of like I would be interested to rewatch it. I do not remember her working in.

[Griffin Newman]

It almost works.

[Katie Rich]

The only good joke in that movie is Hank. Is there Hank Azaria saying hunk it the entire time?

[Griffin Newman]

The whole supported cast of that movie is a real.

[David Sims]

I remember Walk in. Is there. You know. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Tucci.

[David Sims]

Tucci.

[Griffin Newman]

You get a good touch of the tuch in that. Yep.

[David Sims]

But, you know, all the. All the movies that made Catherine Jones the star that she was.

[Griffin Newman]

This. And we've talked about this, but this meteoric rise where it's basically like 1997. Who the fuck is this?

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

2002. An Oscar. That almost feels like an overdue anointment.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, at that point. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Just like. Well, she's undeniably one of our greatest movie stars. And then just immediate drop off here, that run of 2013 we just called out. She has not been in a movie since then. She has done five different TV series, but she has not been in a feature film.

[David Sims]

You're forgetting, of course, Dad's army, the British. I'm sorry, you know, homage, sort of revival.

[Griffin Newman]

That was 2017, 2016. That is her actual last film. Correct. Since then, she's done Disney plus National Treasure series.

[David Sims]

I will say when she has a film coming up.

[Griffin Newman]

What is it?

[David Sims]

She's in Cathy Yan's Birds of Prey follow up, which is called the Gallerist.

[Katie Rich]

That's right.

[David Sims]

And has a stacked cast. Natalie Portman, Jenna Ortega, Sterling K. Brown, Charlie xcx.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting things about this one I've heard.

[David Sims]

Unreleasable, but. Or I've heard, I guess, like, why hasn't it been released?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Katie Rich]

You should read the plot description because it grabs you.

[David Sims]

A gallerist conspires to sell a deceased man at Miami's Art Basel. That sounds kind of fun.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm into it again.

[Katie Rich]

At Bernie's meets the Art World. Sounds good to me.

[Griffin Newman]

She does feel like someone.

[David Sims]

Movie art world satire. That is tricky. Remember Velvet Buzz Saw?

[Katie Rich]

Never saw Velvet Buzz Song.

[David Sims]

You know, and if someone tries it every couple of years, it's like, it's tough, you know, they're all so silly to begin with. It's tough to satisfy.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm a fan of Kathy Anne.

[David Sims]

Me too.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm excited for this. I want to see it. It does feel like she is someone who is just like a little cursed.

[Katie Rich]

Well, but also Kathy Ann or Catherine SATA Jones.

[Griffin Newman]

Or both. Catherine SATA Jones. But also, I'm just like. It feels like it's right there for the taking.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It feels like you don't even have to go. Full substance.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The right movie, the right supporting part for Catherine Zeta Jones. You look like a genius.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

And I. I thought she was incredibly good in side effects, where I remember seeing that in theaters and going like, this is it. And then that movie just makes no impact whatsoever.

[Katie Rich]

That's a weird Soderbergh. Like, wilderness.

[David Sims]

I really like that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I liked it, too.

[David Sims]

I don't like her.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[David Sims]

This is a real David's being mean to Catherine Zeta Jones episode so far, which is weird because I think she.

[Griffin Newman]

Works in intolerable cruelty.

[David Sims]

I think she's interested. I don't think. I do think she's its weakest element. A little bit.

[Katie Rich]

I would argue that's Geoffrey Rush, but we can get there.

[David Sims]

Geoffrey Rush. He's in the. He's in two scenes.

[Griffin Newman]

I like this take. I like. I just like coming in with this hot of a take.

[Katie Rich]

I didn't realize it was hot.

[David Sims]

I remember, even at the time, the whole, look, I'm getting worked up about Cathedral Jones look.

[Griffin Newman]

This is blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[David Sims]

I'm David.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce, baby. Kershner was in Kentucky.

[Katie Rich]

Forget Kirschner.

[David Sims]

Forget Kirschner.

[Griffin Newman]

Forget Kirchner.

[Katie Rich]

You've forgotten Kirchner.

[David Sims]

That's the best line.

[Katie Rich]

Richard Jenkins shows up in this movie, and you're just like, we are off to the race.

[David Sims]

Richard Jenkins drops 80 atomic bomb. Like, just face. Like, just eyebrow twitches. And then Paul adelstein hits, like, 43.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Like, just crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Jenkins, I think, has two, three scenes, and I'm just like, I want to know everything about this.

[David Sims]

It feels like he's in the entire movie, but he's in the entire movie, but he's just be well looked.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's the two meetings in the courtroom. Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

He won't eat that croissant.

[Griffin Newman]

He won't. Pastry.

[Katie Rich]

Pastry. Excuse me.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the Maesters on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Together and separately, it is called Pod Country. For old cast. Today we're starting the drum beat of the Intolerable Cruelty Reclamation, a movie I have found in my anecdotal conversations with people as we've been doing this series. Even the most ardent Cohen supporters I know in my life, by and large, are like, yeah, I saw that when it came out in theaters. It's bad, right? And have never rewatched it more than Lady Killers.

[Katie Rich]

I always thought Lady Killers had.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, all right, I did a little different.

[David Sims]

Well, he tried. But I'm saying, like, I agree with Griffin that I know there are Intolerable Cruelty fans out there because I'm one of them. But we did kind of cast nets being like, so come on, who's the big defender out there? Ready to come on Blank check. Famous podcast time went on 100.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Decade of dreams.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Seth Rogen's on the show. I said all of this.

[Griffin Newman]

You said all of this.

[Katie Rich]

You didn't dangle, Seth.

[David Sims]

I was walking on the top of 30 Rock, just blaring this from the top of my lungs.

[Griffin Newman]

An old timey director megaphone just.

[David Sims]

I couldn't really find anyone who was like, yes, Intolerable crew. I want to defend.

[Griffin Newman]

We've been such big defenders for a while that we're like, there have to be others. And I just keep finding people who are like, saw in theaters opening weekend. Disappointed. Didn't, like, have never considered rewatching or.

[David Sims]

I've heard from others like, oh, I mean, it's okay. You know, a little bit of that. Not so much what I expect and what I've always thought since I saw it in theaters, which is this rocks.

[Griffin Newman]

Love it. Now, David, in order to complete this task, we had to look to the aforementioned TIME 100 Greatest Podcast of all time list.

[David Sims]

We had to shunt her from two other episodes she was booked on because we kept booking Famous.

[Katie Rich]

I think I was considered for three, actually. There were definitely three titles in the mix at some point, and I would have done any of them.

[Griffin Newman]

To be clear, you are overdoing do. We were like, we're getting Katie on somewhere.

[David Sims]

And you were like, I'm going to be. To be. In our defense, you were also kind of like, I'm coming to New York somewhere in, like, a window.

[Katie Rich]

Yes. I make it difficult. I was supposed to have come on for a whole previous series and then I had to go to Los Angeles instead, which is way less. Yeah, always. And you guys replaced me with rson, which I accept.

[Griffin Newman]

Listen. From one of the hundred greatest Podcasts of all time and other Podcasts, fighting the war room. But also Prestige Junkie.

[David Sims]

Yeah, junkie. And all the anchor work at the Anchor True.

[Griffin Newman]

Katie Rich, who I'm overdue, but I'm gonna anoint you with a title now.

[Katie Rich]

What do we got?

[Griffin Newman]

We always say that you were kind of the first blank check. You kind of.

[David Sims]

I mean, Emily Ashida was.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the thing.

[David Sims]

But she was on this weird jerky.

[Katie Rich]

Did she do, like, the early Shyamalans before?

[David Sims]

Talked about.

[Griffin Newman]

Did a revisiting of Force Awakens.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So, like, it was basically. But it was the early run of me asking my friends. And you had asked the Star wars show. You, I feel like, had asked more comedian friends because it's like we were more of a comedy show.

[Griffin Newman]

Also most of our trivia team, like.

[David Sims]

I wasn't going to ask. Film critics that I admired and respected.

[Griffin Newman]

We call Emily the mother of blankets.

[David Sims]

Anyway.

[Katie Rich]

But you also think it's a title she has earned. I want to be clear.

[Griffin Newman]

She comes up with the term in the episode. In that episode, we're like, should we rename our show?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You were the first guest when the show was officially blank checks were on.

[David Sims]

The Sixth Sense episode, to be clear.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And it was kind of the first episode. The box office game got played.

[Griffin Newman]

It is.

[Katie Rich]

Why is it really.

[Griffin Newman]

Because of my favorite box office weekend.

[David Sims]

I did it as a whim. I was like, oh, let's try to guess it.

[Griffin Newman]

I called out how much I love that weekend, and it became the game. So I want to. I want to anoint you here in this decade of dreams, the auntie of blankies.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, God, what an honor.

[Griffin Newman]

I thought you would be the auntie of Blanche.

[Katie Rich]

That's true. I'll be sitting on a porch just like this porch that's right here in the studio. Right.

[David Sims]

Sipping on a sweet tea.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Or half sweet. Half. Or half lemonade.

[Griffin Newman]

Arnold Palmer.

[Katie Rich]

You know, I could have brought. Brought some p. Here, y'.

[David Sims]

All.

[Katie Rich]

Come on. You. You have been talking for years pre pandemic about doing a road trip and coming down. David, I realize you have a large cargo now, but I love.

[David Sims]

I love North Carolina toys at our.

[Griffin Newman]

House, bringing children, including some that I've.

[David Sims]

Said my kids aren't like, oh, yeah, all I need are some toys. Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

Anyway, I do think Griffin was spiritually with us because we went to Pandora. We went to Animal Kingdom and saw the floating islands of Pandora in Florida. And I do think the banshees that you sent to our house were, like, with us along on the journey. And, like, I talked to you about going through the little boat ride that people think is boring, but I thought was beautiful. Anyway, you have helped encourage you come down and see Fire and Ash with us.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely.

[Katie Rich]

We're gonna be there opening night. I'm sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I like that idea.

[Katie Rich]

Charlie went to the summer camp. Charlie, past and future guest, now nine years old, which I just feel like.

[David Sims]

He'S on the Titanic episode as a sub 6 month old baby.

[Katie Rich]

As a baby and now is 9.

[Griffin Newman]

Years old for youngest.

[Katie Rich]

I hope he keeps it. But he went to summer camp and the week that the fire and ash trailer came out and I picked him up and while we were in the car, we'd gotten like more than two miles away. I was like, you got to watch this. You got to see the fire and ash trailer. And he's so hyped. We're ready. We'll be there.

[Griffin Newman]

Few things in this horrible broken world make me happier than. Than how much Charlie loves Avatar.

[David Sims]

You know what rocks about Fire and Ash too? What is like fire and ash with way of water? Just years of yeah, but is he actually going to make it? And yeah, and it kept getting delayed and all this. And then Avatar 3, he was like, yeah, it's going to come out two years after. And like, like clockwork, they were like, here's your trailer. This movie is ready. Like this movie's coming. I feel like there's no fucking around.

[Ben Hosley]

Doesn't get enough credit.

[David Sims]

Everyone's talking fire with fire and ash.

[Katie Rich]

Mm.

[Griffin Newman]

I just wanted to say about Fire and Ash, I agree with you. Where you're like, okay, we're getting into like a rhythm here. Now these are gonna come out and then you look at the calendar and you're like, four is five years away.

[Katie Rich]

Is he gonna make them? Do you think he's gonna do it?

[David Sims]

I don't think so.

[Griffin Newman]

You don't think he's gonna make the.

[David Sims]

Other ones the way he's talking about, oh, now I really want to like make you live inside of a nuclear explosion for this like Hiroshima movie. I want to make like he keeps being like, it's going to be an imax. Maybe I'll make an even bigger IMAX that's even more horrible to witness or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

I will make you hurt. Basically every James Cameron quote now is just him singing the lyrics of her. Like. Like, I want to punish the audience.

[David Sims]

You know, George R.R. martin is someone who clearly like hit a wall in his big creative process for his book. And he just. It's not like he got lazy. He just started doing Other stuff being like, well, I hope I figure that out one day. Right. And maybe he will, maybe he won't. James Cameron, he made, he's not lazy. No, but I, you get the sense from him a little bit of like, I just want to take a break and then I'm gonna get back to them. Where you're like, but the man's what.

[Katie Rich]

75 years old and okay, he's not.

[David Sims]

And he's, and he's a fit man. Oh, she looks great. I'm not worried about.

[Katie Rich]

But he could die in a submarine accident at any moment.

[David Sims]

Well, that's true. Although he would tell you like, no way am I dying in a Civic. I follow all the precautions.

[Katie Rich]

Smart. Unlike all the other guys at the.

[Griffin Newman]

Staying Alive in a Submarine.

[David Sims]

I mean he's very good at undefeated at this point. Just maybe he'll hand it off to somebody. I don't know. He's, he's intimated he could.

[Griffin Newman]

That had always been my guess.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And now he's saying, I don't want to hand them off.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's my new theory. He's always done this thing where after an Avatar he's like, maybe I want to make something else. And then Disney announces a new record breaking deal for him to fast track.

[David Sims]

The next Avatar and they've built him like a space station this time or what, you know, like they've always built him some new facility.

[Griffin Newman]

Cleopatra right after Way of Water, he was like, I'm gonna make this Hiroshima movie right away. And then they were like, never mind. Fire and ash coming out. Two years on the clock.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I also think he has most of the footage in the can for four and five.

[Katie Rich]

You think so?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Most of.

[Katie Rich]

I thought two and three were together and then four and five.

[Griffin Newman]

He's been doing more since then.

[Katie Rich]

I see. Well, he's got like the studio in New Zealand.

[David Sims]

God bless.

[Katie Rich]

He can just like throw Kate Winslet into the tank.

[David Sims]

Whatever he wants, I want, I want.

[Griffin Newman]

We want. I just wonder if he's sort of now like, I've captured most of it. Can I be doing post on Avatars while making new movies? Which feels like a tall task, but if anyone has the hubris to believe they could pull it off.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

To do the sort of Schindler Jurassic.

[Katie Rich]

I was just gonna say it's like Spielberg.

[Griffin Newman]

I, I, that's my new theory on what.

[David Sims]

He's all for it. And I'm all for the sort of like these big directors hit a certain age. The Ridley Scott syndrome. And they're like, I want to work.

[Katie Rich]

More like I. Scorsese is doing the same thing.

[David Sims]

Well, let's not go crazy. I mean, Marty works.

[Katie Rich]

He's no Ridley Scott, but he's no Ridley Scott.

[Griffin Newman]

Slowing down now.

[David Sims]

Marty is slowing down.

[Griffin Newman]

Had been cranking.

[David Sims]

I think the other thing with Marty is it's like he can only work at a high budget and all this stuff because he needs to work pretty slow and have a lot of infrastructure around him. Whereas Ridley Scott's like, send in my team. You know, we'll make a fucking infamously fast. I can build a pyramid for you in an hour. Or whatever it is he does.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Catherine Zeta Jones.

[Griffin Newman]

Zeta zeta. That's an SNL25 joke. Don't worry, Nick. The lounge singer, Welsh accent, sings to Catherine Zeta Jones in the audience. And it goes.

[David Sims]

You know, the Welsh accent is very singsongy. I can't really do it. Zeta Zeta.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it Zeta or Zeta? And I always forget how she corrects him. I always think it's Zeta.

[David Sims]

Catherine Zeta Jones. The great Catherine Zeta Jones, in a way. The great Catherine Zeta Jones.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

I was raised on Catherine Zeta Jones. Right. I saw Mask as a. When I was 12. Beyond that, Bewitched by this woman.

[Griffin Newman]

We have said this. The two trailers. She had two trailer moments that felt like they exploded the universe.

[Katie Rich]

The entrapment.

[Griffin Newman]

Trailer entrapment. Her going through the lasers and the end of the Zorro trailer.

[Katie Rich]

Her clothes get.

[Griffin Newman]

Her clothes fall off in a Z. And it felt like those two things. It was like Bill Clinton got, like, State of the Union. We all agree this is the sexiest woman on the planet. And it just so, like, in a way that was codified for, like, all children. You were like, I get it. You're telling me.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

This is like the height of, like, glamour and charisma. And then there was this narrative that, like, Michael Douglas was like, I must meet that woman.

[David Sims]

Bring her to me.

[Katie Rich]

That's a decent Michael Douglas, actually.

[David Sims]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

This is cnn. And then it was, right. This constant comedy of, like, she has to change his diapers.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

She's married to the oldest man in the world.

[David Sims]

Right. Meanwhile, he's like, I'm going to play Ant Man 20 years from now or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

The. Then she's in traffic and people were like, is she actually a good actress?

[David Sims]

Traffic was the Oscar, right? Was the don't bullshit me. But, yeah, she's pretty good. And then within a couple years, she's won an Oscar.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

And I.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I have this very strong memory of my industry dad having The Variety that says she's fired all of her reps. And he goes, like, I know these movies haven't worked. The terminal Ocean's 12 run in a row. But he was like, if you got Academy Award winner Catherine Zeta Jones and the next three projects you give her are Cohen's Spielberg Hanks.

[David Sims]

Doing your job.

[Griffin Newman]

Spielberg Hanks.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

And Oceans. You're doing your job. You kind of can't get three better projects for. I would agree with that.

[David Sims]

And yet they didn't. None of them really worked out.

[Griffin Newman]

And the stink was on her.

[David Sims]

The stink was on her.

[Katie Rich]

Even though none of them are her fault. The reason that they did not work. Although I think I would agree. I was thinking about her performance in this and whether she's the weak link and, like, who I would replace her with.

[David Sims]

Like, well, so that was my question.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, but no.

[David Sims]

So here's what I want to bring up right now. So 2003, David Sims. Imagine him, 17 years old, a cinephile.

[Griffin Newman]

Foggy London town.

[David Sims]

Yes. Living in foggy London town, reading his Empire magazines by this point, reading his sight and sounds, watching his old movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool guy. Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

So cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Funky, brash, Active social life.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I had a very active social life. I am an extroverted boy.

[Griffin Newman]

Biting your bottom lip, raising the roof.

[David Sims]

Doing those things, dressing. We're gonna say just, okay, probably some work to be done there.

[Katie Rich]

So watch this movie. You see the fashion of the time and realize none of us really stood a chance.

[David Sims]

It's fine. It's an interesting point, but there's two movies that come out this year that are related to each other in that they are both trying to recapture the sort of throwback spirit of an old rom com. Intolerable, Cruel, I would say is more of a screwball comedy. And then Down With Love, which is more of a sort of 50s Doris Day, rock Hudson kind of thing. But, like, they both have this same energy of, like, arch. We are going super arch. We've got movie stars, we've got costumes, we've got bright colors. And audiences are like, no, thank you. Like, absolutely not. This is not the tone we prefer.

[Griffin Newman]

Down With Love has completely been reclaimed. I would say at this point, Down.

[David Sims]

With Love was essentially an instant cult classic. It came out bombed. Critics were like, blah. But audiences were like, we hate it. And the Oscar Watch forums were like, masterpiece.

[Katie Rich]

It has a period piece going for it, right? Like, it being present day.

[David Sims]

Does the weird kind of not a period piece, but something of a period like tone.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it is why everyone bumped on this when it came out, is for filmmakers who are so good at pastiche, this is one of their most pastiche movies. And yet it is committed to being dressed like a modern film and featuring.

[David Sims]

Modern things like video cameras fucking. You know, just like the sort of cable shows. The type of gold digger that it's about is a modern kind of, you know, all that shit, I think that.

[Griffin Newman]

Broke brains in both directions. And you even look at the trailer for this movie, which can't decide a billion times. A billion times. You cannot decide. You fascinate me.

[David Sims]

Was you fascinate?

[Griffin Newman]

Was one of those. We're duly appointed federal marshals.

[David Sims]

100% right.

[Griffin Newman]

The trailer can't decide if they're trying to sell Cohen's weirdness or they're trying to sell two sexy movie stars doing rom com.

[David Sims]

It's more trying to sell. This is we've got two hot people. They're gonna fall in love. And it's a comedy set in the world of the divorce lawyer. Okay, fine. But, you know, like, yes to Klaus.

[Griffin Newman]

The Baron Heinz Funk.

[David Sims]

Exactly. There's gonna be some goofy Cohen's Y stuff.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And that's me again in the audience, you know, with a little foam finger being like, I'm ready.

[Katie Rich]

I love Preston Sturgis in the context of the movie. Those things do go hand in hand, but selling them both together is really hard.

[Griffin Newman]

I think this movie is incredibly cohesive and, like, of a piece.

[David Sims]

Agree.

[Griffin Newman]

But I remember I did not see this at the time. I said erroneously it from the moment I became Coen pilled when I saw A Brother. I haven't missed one of their films in theaters, but I didn't see this in theaters because everyone around me told me it was bad.

[David Sims]

It didn't get very good reviews, and it vanished quickly.

[Griffin Newman]

Directions where I was like, people went to see it as a comedy were like, that thing sucks. It's not funny. And I was like, well, I don't trust them. I need to talk to Cohen's people. And Cohen's people in my life were like, it's bad. It doesn't feel like them. It feels anonymous. Which is insane to me now.

[David Sims]

It's insane now.

[Griffin Newman]

It's insane.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But I do think there was that bumping of, like, people didn't know how to process this.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I think if this movie had been set in an arch 40s, like, sort of thing, it would.

[Katie Rich]

If it had been the Hug Huck the Hudsucker Proxy, which I did rewatch coming into this and was thinking a lot about that archness and how the setting of it tells you what it's going to be way more than intolerable cruelty does.

[David Sims]

That movie was a giant pop harder.

[Griffin Newman]

Upon release, but I think it would have found its champions faster.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Versus I feel like Cohen's people who are like loath to revisit this cuz they were like, I just remember that being a complete nothing.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Which is actually now.

[Griffin Newman]

I watched it for the first time on a plane years later and I was like, it's the one I haven't seen. I guess I should watch it. And I got to the Kirschner was in Kentucky scene and I immediately was like this is Preston Searches. This is the most Sturgis of any of their films. How did people not get this down to like it's weird like seven act structure.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like insane. Like scenes like set pieces built around dialogue and like seven internal games within a five person conversation.

[David Sims]

Objection. Your honor. Poetry recitation, right? I'm just going to keep giving you lines. We would say. You would say make hammer on his fanny the way they say nail his ass in five different ways across the.

[Griffin Newman]

David.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

This episode is brought to you the Listener by mubi, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there's always something new to discover with mubi. Each and every film is hand selected so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere. And here's a hand selection. Here's a. Here's a spotlight.

[David Sims]

Nothing more to discuss here.

[Griffin Newman]

Everything's.

[David Sims]

Wait, wait, what's.

[Griffin Newman]

David, turn the spotlight on.

[David Sims]

On.

[Griffin Newman]

I've put my glove on to select by hand. Through the creek of the door, we have three different visuals going on. What the glove to hand pick.

[David Sims]

Oh, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

David Mussolini. Colon, Son of the century.

[David Sims]

It is. It. Look, it's an exciting project, but it's really funny to be like, guys, Mussolini.

[Griffin Newman]

Here'S what's funny about it. Just to peel back the curtain for a second, we get like messages that are like, hey, you guys good with this ad?

[David Sims]

Yeah, here's the copy for the ad.

[Griffin Newman]

And as shorthand it was texted to us as. You guys good with the Mussolini ad? And I was like, Mussolini sponsoring the podcast. What do you mean?

[David Sims]

To be clear, we decry Il Duce Mussolini, Benito Mussolini, the terrible dictator of Italy.

[Griffin Newman]

But we celebrate Joe Wright and his newest project.

[David Sims]

The filmmaker Joe Wright in clothes has.

[Griffin Newman]

Created me cold Son of the Century.

[David Sims]

An eight episode series about Mussolini's Rise to power. And I will say not to sound like, you know, a little nerd over here, but it is actually very interesting to consider Mussolini's rise to power in these times. You know, he was sort of the original fascist and the way that he sees power in Italy is unfortunately something we should probably have on our minds right now. I'm not trying to be a loser right now.

[Griffin Newman]

You sound like me right now. This is the kind of thing I say.

[David Sims]

It's very, it's a very interesting part of history. And I feel like, because, you know, other World War II things became, whatever, the History Channel's favorite thing, you don't hear quite as much about Mussolini's.

[Griffin Newman]

No, you're right. Unfortunately, sadly, tragically, frighteningly, he's not a hugely. This is a hyper relevant time and this is a theatrical, hyper visual tour de force starring Luca Marinelli, Martin Eden himself.

[David Sims]

Remember that?

[Griffin Newman]

A beloved member of the old guard. That's right. Movie I love episode that people considered normal. All right, let's turn down checking notes here. Great critics are calling it a towering performance of puffed up vanity. It features an era bending score by Tom Rollins of the Chemical Brothers.

[David Sims]

That's cool. Imagine techno beaks scoring fascist rallies. It just sounds kind of Joe Wrighty.

[Griffin Newman]

It does.

[David Sims]

Joe Wright, you know, he won't just do a typical costume drama. He likes to, you know, think about things in a different way. Got futurism, surreal stagecraft, cutting edge visuals. Guardian calls it quote, a. A brilliantly performed portrait of a pathetic monster.

[Griffin Newman]

It's part political burlesque, part urgent contemporary warning about how democracies fall.

[David Sims]

This is heavy ad copy, guys. Usually it's kind of like shorts. They, you know, critics, raving words.

[Griffin Newman]

A gripping, timely series. The Guardian. Remarkable. The Telegraph, a complex portrait of evil. Financial Times.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, I, I, It's Joe Wright, one of the, one of the scariest people I ever interviewed. I've told you that story. Right? He was, he was, he knows. He's kind of a cool guy. That's. We batted him a.

[Griffin Newman]

He's certainly gotten interesting. He's very interesting and he's made some.

[David Sims]

Great movies and he's made some like big swings that didn't totally connect.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally.

[David Sims]

That's really interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

He actually is a blank check filmmaker. Unlike a lot some people that get suggested. You're like, sure doesn't fit the model.

[David Sims]

This one does.

[Griffin Newman]

This one does look to stream great films at home. You can try mooby free for 30 [e-mail] blank check. That's M U B I.com blank check for a month of great cinema for free. You can watch Mussolini or you can. You can watch. Not most Delaney things.

[David Sims]

Yeah, they got lots of movies.

[Griffin Newman]

I got a lot of things.

[David Sims]

Bye.

[Griffin Newman]

It also, it's the funniest thing to me that this remains their most expensive film. I've erroneously said, oh, it is Hudsucker. But I didn't realize this movie cost. So a report is 60 Minutes.

[David Sims]

I want to. I want to see what JJ's research says, because I've seen that number and maybe it is truly just Clooney and Catherine got their quote.

[Griffin Newman]

I also think a lot of development costs.

[David Sims]

Maybe that's.

[Griffin Newman]

Remember, that always counts against the film in this movie. Just bopped around for 15 years.

[David Sims]

I'm opening the dossier, actually. Why not? Because indeed, this is. This is crucial to understanding Intolerable Cruelty because it lived many lives before the Cohens made it. It was written as a film by Robert Ramsay and Matthew Stone, who had made movies like man of the House, of course.

[Katie Rich]

Jtt, remember it well.

[David Sims]

Life, the right Ted Demi, Martin Lawrence, Eddie Murphy dramedy that is like, not bad.

[Griffin Newman]

You, we. Everyone just comes up the box. It's so close to being great that every five years I'll watch it and I'll be like, is it a masterpiece yet? Like, do I need to put it back in the oven for five more years?

[David Sims]

And they write their scripts.

[Griffin Newman]

Man of the House and Soul man, of course. Two of the least culturally problematic films ever made.

[David Sims]

No, no, no, not Soul Man.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, Soul Man.

[David Sims]

Soul Men with Robert Downey Jr. And Bernie Mac. Which is a service.

[Griffin Newman]

No, Robert Downey Jr.

[David Sims]

I mean, you know, a three. A three.

[Katie Rich]

Still sounds problematic.

[Griffin Newman]

He wanted to follow up his Tropic Thunder nomination.

[David Sims]

I feel like that was like one of the last Bernie Mac movies.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, that came out in, like, after Intolerable Cruelty. Right, right.

[David Sims]

Soul man came out in 2008.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes. I want to say Old Dogs is the last one to be released possibly, but I feel like Soul man was his last Bernie Mac vehicle where he's above the title.

[David Sims]

Anyway, they wrote this, this concept based, you know, rom com set in the world of divorce lawyer. Okay. Funny. Michael Keaton Jones, the director of Doc Hollywood is attached. That makes sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Like, that sounds like a sort of okay, rom com from the 90s so far. Right. The Coens come on as screenwriters because Ron Howard picks it up and brings them in to polish it. He wants to make it after Rapping Ransom and then Howard moves on to make way for Andrew Bergman, the director of the Freshman.

[Griffin Newman]

It could happen to you.

[David Sims]

Another guy who makes sense that kind of 90s on bass single.

[Griffin Newman]

But it basically. I don't know if the pitch was this focused at the time, but I feel like my girlfriend was asking me, what is intolerable cruelty about? And I was like, how do I logline it? And it's interesting because this felt like a script that studios were so hot on for so long.

[David Sims]

Kept being like, someone's gotta make.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. This is such a good premise. And I was like, I guess the premise is Divorce lawyer who becomes obsessed with world's greatest coal digger.

[David Sims]

That it's like, they're an awesome story. Right? What if. Right. What if the world's most, you know, brutal to voice lawyer and the world's greatest gold digger fell in love?

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And they sort of become fascinated with each other.

[Katie Rich]

But imagining Ron Howard doing that with like a few, like a gold digger, like, there's a cynicism baked into it. That's hard to imagine a lot of.

[Griffin Newman]

These people doing it.

[David Sims]

But I mean, like, I just figured guys like Ron Howard are like, I'm making Ron Howard is the ultimate journey. He's like, I'm making a thriller. Maybe I'll make a rom com.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll make the fluffiest version. I think everyone else was going to make a much softer version of this. Chronologically. This is. Is the first four higher work Cohens do.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the start of polish of the script.

[Katie Rich]

Where are they? This is like in the period where they're. Okay. The period where they're making Hudsucker and they haven't made any money.

[Griffin Newman]

So I think it's in the immediate post Hudsucker. They do a pass on this. That pass gets people really excited. That's when it elevates to like, oh, now it's Ron Howard level filmmakers interested in this.

[David Sims]

So after Bergman, Joe Dante came aboard and was going to make it with Jeremy Irons and Heather Locklear Bazaar, which like, like, they don't. They're not a pair. That makes sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Nope.

[David Sims]

Jeremy Irons, like, I could see that. Howard then returns, then leaves to make Grinch and Beautiful Mind.

[Griffin Newman]

Other people are rewriting the script past the Cohen draft at this point.

[Katie Rich]

So they had moved on. They made Virgo. They. They're good. They can do other stuff.

[David Sims]

Then Jonathan Demme, who's clearly seeking out a sort of throwbacky movie and eventually makes it with Truth About Charlie. But what is so like circles this one With Will Smith. Smith.

[Griffin Newman]

This is what's insane. I need to just get this timeline clear here. He's trying to do Truth About Charlie with Will Smith. Will Smith is doing Ollie with Michael Mann.

[Katie Rich]

Right.

[David Sims]

And Ali just takes too long.

[Griffin Newman]

Surprise of surprise. Michael Mann movie runs over budget, over schedule. And he's just.

[David Sims]

Will Smith is very much like, I don't care. I will do anything for this movie. Like, he was so in on Ali.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. That he's like, I guess I'll wait for you.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

There's the threat of a WGA strike that ends up not happening.

[David Sims]

Right. That was right. You're right.

[Griffin Newman]

That has everyone panicked of like, you got to get something made. Made. So then he's like, can I find something else?

[David Sims]

Maybe I'll make something in the meantime. So right. Then he circles this and he's. And he. He wants Hugh Grant.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

And Te Leone. But @ the time English.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you think I watched a lot.

[Katie Rich]

Of Just shoot me in in this period?

[David Sims]

Well, she's not in that.

[Griffin Newman]

I love the Naked Truth.

[Katie Rich]

Love God. She was on a show.

[Griffin Newman]

It was called the Naked Truth. Was it? Okay, hang on.

[Katie Rich]

What? She was an entertainment journalist who I know Taylor from.

[David Sims]

I mean, I think of Ta is emerging with, like, flirting with disaster or whatever. Right. The David. And then she was in Deep Impact.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Katie Rich]

Which I guess Deep Impact for sure. I guess Naked Truth is what I'm thinking of.

[David Sims]

Right. But her being in Deep Impact was kind of that thing of like, she was in a movie that made money. Is she a star and like, the answer?

[Griffin Newman]

Family Man. I think she's very good in.

[Katie Rich]

Sorry, I didn't mean to put us on a tail.

[Griffin Newman]

Leonel Entertainment Weekly cover for Naked Truth, where I believe she's naked, wrapped in American flag.

[Katie Rich]

That all sounds about right.

[David Sims]

Demi then hops off to go back to Truth About Charlie this time, who's going to be great.

[Griffin Newman]

I can't wait for Will. I'll do Truth About Charlie. One of the worst movie star casting choices of all time. Not waiting for Will Smith. And then he tries after the fact to do Intolerable Cruelty again with Will Smith. Smith, because he's so angry that he.

[David Sims]

Missed his words, he makes Truth About Charlie. He's coming off of that, probably thinking, like, nailed that. Everyone's gonna love it. And then. Right. Is like, I still have Teone attached and I'm now going to try and attract Will Smith.

[Katie Rich]

Would Will Smith have been good in this movie? Sure. I can see a version of him. Not like Clooney, but I can still work it.

[David Sims]

I mean like Hitch, Will Smith, that kind of like overconfident. But doesn't Hitch is the perfectly different.

[Griffin Newman]

Movie Will Smith rom com vehicle down to now. Understanding how much of that movie is weirdly autobiographical.

[David Sims]

Right. So the Coens obviously the whole time are around descript polishers, but they are developing to the White Sea. They're ill begotten, never made adaptation of a JDM Sicki novel. And obviously they want Brad Pitt. And that movie has bounced from Universal to 20th Century Fox.

[Griffin Newman]

It's this constant battle of like a budget between 40 and 60 million dollars. They can get it made for 40 with Brad Pitt.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But every time they have Cohen's want.

[David Sims]

Like 60 and they want to shoot it in Japan and Fox keeps being like, isn't this like a movie with no dialogue?

[Griffin Newman]

That's like tentatively like green lighted at 50 and then a new budget will come in at 60. And so this is all brakes on it.

[Katie Rich]

They're actively in the middle of this. Like after O Brother trying to make.

[David Sims]

To the White Sea the thing they keep trying to make by 2001. Joel Collins says in an interview that to the White Sea quote went down the old drainerino. I do like that. They're pretty, you know, kind of.

[Griffin Newman]

But they're like close to going, yes, it falls apart. And they're like, I guess we're giving up on this for good.

[David Sims]

The one movie they to this day talk about is like, that was a movie we wanted to make. Like, of course they've had other projects that never came to fruition, but that's the only one.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the great unmade movie in their Our friends Rach and Tory, Jordan Fish, your former classmates. My former classmates have done a great podcast about it. Continue to do a great podcast about it. But yes, it's the great on me.

[Ben Hosley]

Cohen question, actually, were you in attendance of the early MGMT concert?

[Katie Rich]

Yes, I seen that video going around. I'm not in that video. But like I have. I have gone. I've like the Pruder film gone through it being like, I've got to know someone who's in that. I haven't been able to find it. But yes, I saw them play multiple house parties circa 2004, 2003.

[David Sims]

And you were like, this music could really crush in a commercial that kids.

[Katie Rich]

That's the song that they had in college that they would put it on at a party. Everyone would go nuts. Every wedding I've been to from someone from Wesleyan, like, they always play kids. Everyone Always gets in like. It's a. It's a thing. It's.

[David Sims]

What was the other one?

[Katie Rich]

There were two kids and Time To Pretend was there. Famously from the Minecraft movie trailer now beloved by children the world over.

[David Sims]

Those.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Katie's right about this.

[Katie Rich]

I think now kids now love Time to pretend. The MGMT's had its generational moment. It's a great song.

[Griffin Newman]

I love the second album, which is the one that everyone kind of.

[David Sims]

That was when everyone was like, we're out.

[Griffin Newman]

I know. It's the good one. Congratulations.

[David Sims]

The one with the, like, optical illusion cover.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, there were different. There was a scratch off cover for the vinyl release.

[Katie Rich]

Trapper.

[Ben Hosley]

It's Trapper.

[Griffin Newman]

Cute. Very Trapper. I remember about.

[Katie Rich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So, yeah, that doesn't happen. And they're disappointed.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And they are coming up to this point where it's like, okay, do we, like, strip to the White Sea down to the tax and try to reconstitute it? Something that's gonna be cheaper or whatever? Or do we fucking do something else?

[Griffin Newman]

Do we bury it? Do we move on so we don't keep getting hung up and losing years of our lives trying to make this.

[David Sims]

At this point, Pitt has moved on, but they had Clooney attached to Intolerable Cruelty. I mean, to the White Sea, okay? And he's the one who's like, like, why don't we just make Intolerable Cruelty look at this script.

[Griffin Newman]

Because Universal has pushed that to him as a potential star.

[David Sims]

And it's just there.

[Katie Rich]

Perfect.

[David Sims]

We have always liked this script.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, Clooney's response, by the way. Now, having worked with the Coen brothers, they sent him the script. He's like, can I read the Cohen's draft? Everything I've heard is that the Cohen's draft.

[David Sims]

He went to Universal and was like, can you dig that up?

[Griffin Newman]

That was the one that everyone got so excited about. Can I go back and read that? He reads that and he's like, I would do this. He goes to them. JJ has the quote in there. But Carter Burwell basically says that within the same week they called him to say, unfortunately, to the White Sea is dead. And then, like, three days later said, we're gonna make Intolerable Cruelty.

[Katie Rich]

I hope we get a chance to talk about Carter Burwell because he is on fire on this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Unbelievable.

[David Sims]

Lit himself on fire with. What was it? Blood sample. Like, what's the first movie?

[Griffin Newman]

And he's running on fire.

[David Sims]

And just one of those guys walking around on fire ever since incredible score.

[Griffin Newman]

That I think has never been released. You cannot find this one.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Because it's like. Like if I called Universal, they'd be.

[Katie Rich]

Like, what that movie? We didn't make that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Your phone would explode.

[David Sims]

So.

[Griffin Newman]

But yes, Clooney's attached. It's suddenly, like, super fast tracked. And Burwell was like. It felt like a breakup rebound thing of his.

[Katie Rich]

Because Clooney is as hot as he can possibly be at this point.

[David Sims]

He's hot stuff. Although we're gonna talk about his career in a second. Cause he's in a little moment. He's having a little moment here.

[Griffin Newman]

Post Oceans in 2001. I do think there is a feeling of. Of he's cracked it 100%. Right. The irony, of course, is that Clooney never is able to replicate mainstream crossover movie star in the pocket, outside of the Ocean's trilogy, in the way he did there. But in that moment, I think they were like, he's crossed it all.

[David Sims]

But you're forgetting the run is. It's really impressive after Batman and Robin, you know, salute. Like, we all love Batman and Robin. And then Peacemaker, which, like, did okay. You've got, like, out of Sight, which it just does okay. But is such a smash critically, which is the.

[Katie Rich]

The movie star Persona. Like, that's where he figures it out. Like, that's the start.

[David Sims]

And then Three Kings, which is. Does pretty good and again gets amazing reviews. And then Perfect Storm. O Brother, Ocean's Eleven. No, I. I know it's pretty nuts, but.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, brother. Not oh, brother. I'm sorry. Ocean's Eleven is one of the ten highest grossing films of the year.

[David Sims]

You're not gonna beat Oceans.

[Griffin Newman]

And even in this big thing, you were like, this guy's undeniable. He's taking the Cary Grant mantle. I think that's a lot of the feeling.

[David Sims]

Totally.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He's now the mayor of Hollywood.

[David Sims]

Slap a tux on this guy and we'll want it. But what does he want to make? He wants to make an out and out comedy. It's funny that he's saying that because it's like, he did make O Brother, but I guess O Brother is like, such an odd movie, right? Yeah, he's like, can I fucking make a comedy? He's also editing Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, which of course, he directed.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he has, like, he's finishing work on Solaris, even Soderbergh's film, the laugh Riot of 2002, which is, I mean, one of my favorite movies of all time. But it's a gloomy film. Let us. Let us say.

[Griffin Newman]

Let us say.

[David Sims]

And so I'm sure he wants to shake the sillies out a little bit. Right. Like, he's like, let me, you know, be a buffoon again for the Coens.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I think this is interesting. This is from a vanity Fair piece, 2003, I did not work, where he says he's like this. It is kind of a terrifying thing to do because this could be so bad. Like, when you're reading the script, this rat a tat, this screwball thing where, like, I have to go for it. Right. Like, I'm going to have to give, like, a really big performance. And he does, and it rocks.

[Griffin Newman]

But it could be so, like, incredible in this.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Katie Rich]

But it's not like he's doing anything that silly. Like, he's not the big goofy character. I mean, there's. I guess he wears a kilt, but, like, you know, the Baron and all those other side characters are doing so much of the height and stuff. And he's in the, like, locked in Cary Grant mode.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just very stylized. It's a stylized performance, which speaks to why audiences bumped on this movie in general.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

What is this weird thing going on here without it having the clear signposts of being a period piece, being more stylized. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Rumor has a top choice for this movie is Julia Roberts.

[Griffin Newman]

Makes perfect sense.

[David Sims]

Obviously. Clooney has literally just worked with her twice. Oceans and Confessions.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

They're pals. But Catherine Xander Jones has just won her Oscar.

[Katie Rich]

Sure has.

[David Sims]

Right. Although I have to imagine. Was this filmed after that?

[Griffin Newman]

It must have been.

[Katie Rich]

But Chicago was such an. Obviously Chicago Oscar.

[David Sims]

Like March 2003.

[Katie Rich]

You're right. Yeah.

[David Sims]

No, this film's. But this film's after Chicago's done. But it filmed in June 2002.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, wild.

[Katie Rich]

But they knew that she was gonna.

[David Sims]

I mean, they knew, and they all had a great time with her.

[Griffin Newman]

Chicago did feel like a. Did you hear that? Chicago's good. Like, it was not seen as an Oscar contender until, like, October because it.

[Katie Rich]

Was supposed to be Kings of New York. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And people were just like, that can't be good.

[David Sims]

And it is crazy that it came in and just. Right. Like, elbowed Marty out of the way and. Who's the other? There's two big hours. Well, Penis came on late. It was the hours, I guess.

[Griffin Newman]

Two Towers and Two Towers, which everyone.

[David Sims]

Was sort of like.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's the year where I. Is every Best Picture nominee produced by either Rudin or Weinstein.

[David Sims]

Except for the hours. The one. Rudin. No, but Weinstein has his name on it.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh that's the thing that he still had his.

[David Sims]

He did a lot of work.

[Griffin Newman]

That.

[David Sims]

Right. And his name is on it because he fired Peter Jackson or whatever the. But nice work if you can guess he didn't like. I think Weinstein's involvement with Chicago was low. But it was.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a Mir Max movie.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[David Sims]

It was gangster. New York was obviously the Weinstein one where he actually gets a nomination for that one. And then I do think he had something to do with the Pianist as well.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I don't they really or.

[Katie Rich]

No, the Pianist was somebody else.

[David Sims]

The Pianist was. Am I right? Wrong. Who even released the Pianist?

[Griffin Newman]

Focus.

[David Sims]

No.

[Katie Rich]

Canal plus producer. Wikipedia is really not coming through on this one.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Who knows? Who can say? It's a mystery. We'll never know. Anyway, they had a great time making this movie. The Cones did very little press. JJ's apologizing. I don't know why you need to apologize to me. I don't employ you because you're fired. Apparently they were already shooting the Lady Killers when this movie came out.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

So I guess they didn't do much press. They liked that it was set in the present. Cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool.

[David Sims]

Roger Deakins was coming off shooting House of Sand and Fog.

[Griffin Newman]

Another laugh Riot Pianist was released by Focus.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[David Sims]

There you go. Carter Burwell says he settled on a Mancini Mancini approach. Light hearted 60s jazz pop and it's a classic.

[Griffin Newman]

Him reappropriating other music into the score beautifully. Much like Hudsuck.

[David Sims]

And the film premiered and I would say this is mistake number one at the Venice International Film Festival.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Out of competition as a work in progress, which is insane. I think it was still missing a scene or two. Come out October and then it came out in October. Like do not release this in October.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, put it out.

[David Sims]

This is a spring or summer movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like it's a light rom com but.

[Griffin Newman]

This speaks to them not knowing. Like is this a straight down the middle play and we're hiding the ball on Cohen's weirdness or do we want some level of like Cohen's prestige?

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. But it looks like America's Sweethearts or some other kind of modern day rom com. So getting that prestige, even getting the Cohen's people on board I think is challenging because you look at the poster for it, you're like, I know what that is.

[Griffin Newman]

The most generic poster in the world. They take this beautiful two shot.

[David Sims]

They're Sitting next to each other.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, there's this beautiful two shot of, like, just incredible movie star glow of Clooney and Zeta Jones in the elevator. A scene that is, like, thrown off its hump by a dog biting his hand and a bunch of funny dialogue. Right.

[David Sims]

Stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

And they just, like, screenshot that.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then remove the elevator and put them in front of the most generic.

[David Sims]

Blue cloud trees or whatever. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

What can I tell you?

[Griffin Newman]

The font's bad.

[David Sims]

Do you like. Do you guys like the actual opening credit? You know, the. Sort of.

[Katie Rich]

Love it. Vegas, Suspicious Minds.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

You know, the.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, it's great.

[David Sims]

Cupids and the hearts. Yeah, it's fun, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

It's like Monty Python flying.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very.

[Katie Rich]

I think they got opening title sequences. I didn't, like, go through enough of.

[David Sims]

Whatever you want to say, so. But this is a movie that demands it.

[Griffin Newman]

I would say most. I'm trying to think of other films of theirs that have kind of like. I mean, standalone opening credits.

[Katie Rich]

Like Hudsucker. You go through the city. But that's like the set.

[David Sims]

So, I mean, like, Raising Arizona has the, like, unbelievable, like, whistle, you know, yodeling, you know, like, title rushing at you. They'll crush an opening title.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

But they don't usually.

[Griffin Newman]

But this kind of sequence.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Having, like, a cold open and then cutting to the title, like, makes sense for them, but, like, the Cupids felt new.

[Griffin Newman]

The movie just this movie opening with, like, what is Jeffrey Rush doing in this? How does this factor into the plot? It takes so long to circle back in any way.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

My thing. So my thing with this movie is I see when it comes out, I think it's great, and I'm immediately, like, the only fan of it, you know, and it's quickly forgotten. And then over the years, I will show it to anyone I date. Any pal of mine. Because I'm like. Because they're always like, oh, I just want to watch something light. And I'm like, have I got a light movie for you. The Coen brothers made a rom com with George Clooney. Do you want to watch it? Every single one of them. It starts with the Jeffrey Rush thing and they're just like, okay, the is. And it loses them. Never gets them back.

[Griffin Newman]

Tailed in the butt with a Golden.

[Katie Rich]

Globe and screaming bitch at a car. It's a. Oh, God, no, it's. No, it's not an Emmy. It's like a. Not a made up.

[David Sims]

It's a made up.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Okay. But like. And you Just. And then, like, you know, oh, Clooney's here. And they're doing the. And like, I'm like, listen to this rider dialogue. And they're just like, I. I don't care. Like, it's never worked on anyone I've ever showed.

[Griffin Newman]

It's wild.

[David Sims]

Isn't that weird?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Or am I the fool?

[Katie Rich]

I mean, I. I said the thing about Jeffrey R. Earlier. Like, I don't think it's that he's bad, but it's.

[David Sims]

It's off putting the assignment.

[Katie Rich]

And there's something about that sequence being like, oh, she caught. She got. He caught his wife sleeping with the pool guy. Like, oh, I kind of get what this is. Like, the. The Cohen twist on. It takes time to emerge. I think you need a name like Rex Rexroth. And like, the train stuff. Like the, you know, the sequence later where it's him, you know, driving with the girl in the hotel room and Cedric the Entertainer bust in. Like, all the train stuff is so funny and specific. And the Jeffrey Rush stuff feels more generic. Oh, Hollywood divorce kind of thing. I think that's part of the challenge.

[David Sims]

I would agree.

[Griffin Newman]

It's.

[David Sims]

You're right. It's very broad, right?

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's kind of non specific.

[David Sims]

To me. I don't know what you mean.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of earthy and you're sort of like, what does this have to do with anything? Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. They need this big of an opening credit sequence because you kind of need to, like, palette reset immediately.

[David Sims]

You've also. So it's like, you know, you need to understand that this guy, Jeffrey Rush, like, nailed his wife in flagrante so hard and yet Miles Massey, like, took him for everything. This guy is unbeatable.

[Katie Rich]

When you get Clooney in there and being like, well, and we assume that he beat you or that he was trying to sleep with the pool guy or whatever, like that that's. The tone is coming into place.

[David Sims]

Who's the lady? She's very funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Look her up.

[Griffin Newman]

I meant to look her up also, but.

[David Sims]

Yeah, Stacy Travis.

[Griffin Newman]

But the movie doesn't resume with them in court. It just kind of jumps ahead and you understand that as another battle he won. I do love this setup of just. This guy is so good at divorce law that he's bored. Right. That he can just pull off anything. You can see how. How thoroughly the DAC is stacked against the guy.

[David Sims]

I think it's great. Exactly. I think that's so funny. It's like. Right. Like he's Done it all. He's done the hardest thing. So then when Edward Herman shows up, by the way, Edward Herman also hit and throws left and right.

[Griffin Newman]

Cha chugga choo choo.

[David Sims]

So funny. And is basically like, hi. Like I cheat on my wife all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

She's caught me doing it. I don't have a prenup.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And I like, you know, I've been married to her.

[Griffin Newman]

She tries to use the open marriage excuse. Was that talked about? Was agreed upon.

[Katie Rich]

Well, Clooney's like, you want to like put your unoffending wife out on her.

[David Sims]

Ass and you propose she have her talk.

[Griffin Newman]

And he basically like light up.

[David Sims]

So best to get the. So obscene. I guess I could try.

[Griffin Newman]

In spite of demonstrable infidelity on your.

[David Sims]

Part, you propose your.

[Katie Rich]

With Clooney's performance. I thought so much of fantastic Mr. Fox cuz it's a similar rattata vibe. And they're like, oh, what's left for me in my life? Like, it really feels like Wes Anderson saw this movie and was like, that's a thing.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a really good call.

[David Sims]

Now that Clooney just did a bombeck and is, you know, you know, whatever. Seems to be sort of getting limber again.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, it's coming to a. Wes, can.

[David Sims]

I have live action? Wes?

[Griffin Newman]

It would be so great.

[Katie Rich]

It would be really good.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, the whole thing with Fantastic Mr. Fox is that he didn't record them in booths.

[Katie Rich]

Oh yeah. They were like running around in circles in the grass.

[Griffin Newman]

His home.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And they acted out the whole movie on like mini DV cameras. And he pulled that audio so you can see there's like 90 minutes of Clooney acting through all of Fantastic Mr. Fox. Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

He's like doing somersaults in a backyard. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And they'll show those clips sometimes. And I'm like, can you please put that full cut out there?

[David Sims]

I want that now.

[Katie Rich]

Oh my God.

[David Sims]

But I'm just like, they're a great match.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, totally.

[David Sims]

He rocks. And finesse Mr. Fox. Like, give me more of that.

[Griffin Newman]

Please agree.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

I think just also generally, we've just been for years saying, hey, Jordan, George, how about you direct fewer movies, be.

[Katie Rich]

A movie star, which you are better at than anyone alive.

[David Sims]

So let's just. Right, let's just touch on Clooney. We've done Clooney before, obviously. We just did oh brother. And we will be doing Burn and Caesar. What else have we done over the years?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, we did the oceans.

[David Sims]

Oceans on Patreon. We Did Batman and Robin on Patreon.

[Katie Rich]

You guys have been avoiding Soderbergh.

[Griffin Newman]

Tomorrowland.

[David Sims]

Avoiding him.

[Katie Rich]

It's in Tomorrowland.

[David Sims]

Yeah, we did Tomorrowland, which is not. Not a. He's not bad in it or anything, but he's. It's such an odd performance because he's so depressed.

[Katie Rich]

Y' all haven't done Money Monster. No Money Monster fans in here.

[Griffin Newman]

We haven't done money.

[Katie Rich]

I did that on this at Oscar buzz. I will defend that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's really.

[Katie Rich]

It's not great.

[David Sims]

That movie would be. But I mean, it's just the most crucial performance is one of the worst screen performances I've ever seen from a good actor or a sometimes good actor.

[Griffin Newman]

The Jack Ocon.

[David Sims]

He's so.

[Griffin Newman]

I still never seen.

[Katie Rich]

It just ruins Jack O. Connell's coming back. Now's the time to reappraise him.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Well, then he should.

[Griffin Newman]

Pay to have that movie.

[David Sims]

In other things, he's so off in that movie. Yeah. I remember nothing about Clooney. I remember Julia being good in it.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But a bit of a boring role, but, you know, anyway.

[Griffin Newman]

But it does feel like the last 10 years, every time he's been like, I'm ready to do the movie star thing again, he's kind of picked wrong. Like, it's Money Monster. Tomorrowland. All these look good on paper.

[David Sims]

Ticket to paradise, which I feel like. Like everyone was so forgiving of because they were like, this is what we want you to do.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Of a movie.

[David Sims]

But everyone was like, okay, I watched.

[Katie Rich]

It on a plane, which is. It's Natural.

[David Sims]

Wolf didn't even get that treatment. Had it been released in theaters, people might have again, kind of been like, we appreciate you trying.

[Katie Rich]

Did you like Wolfs?

[Griffin Newman]

I never saw it so bad.

[Katie Rich]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I think it really stinks.

[Griffin Newman]

I watched it after months of everyone telling me how hard it stunk. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, this is totally scratching the itch. What's everyone talking about? And then it ended. And immediately I was like. Like that. I was kind of riding along with it the whole time. Cruise altitude and was like, whatever. It's bad oceans. Right? And then it ends. And you're like, that was nothing.

[David Sims]

It really.

[Griffin Newman]

What a waste of everyone's time and energy.

[David Sims]

The audacity to be like, well, maybe wolves too is coming. And you're like.

[Griffin Newman]

Screening, like, gonna huff and puff and tell me you'll blow this house down.

[David Sims]

And indeed. He's just been making his own films.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. He's in Midnight sky to his credit. It's terrible.

[David Sims]

But no credit will be assigned for. I mean, we want it to be.

[Katie Rich]

In his own movies, but.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but you're like, do you.

[David Sims]

The thing about the Midnight sky is you watch it and you're like, I can't believe this isn't the worst movie George Clooney is directed. And like, I never saw the Boys in the Boat. I do need to see those boys.

[Katie Rich]

I did never see the boys.

[David Sims]

The Ginger Bar was one of those things where I'm like, hey, you got to a C minus. Like, yeah, this. Something's happening where you're improving a little bit. That movie was watchable, I assume. Boys in the Boat, it's like.

[Griffin Newman]

It's throwing smokers.

[David Sims]

He's really good in that.

[Griffin Newman]

In Tender Bar.

[Katie Rich]

And you're.

[Griffin Newman]

He'd be getting an Oscar nomination if this movie weren't directed by George Clooney.

[David Sims]

Possibly. And also, it was one of those, you know, pandemic movies that went right to streaming where it's like, you're not going to.

[Griffin Newman]

But I. Looks great.

[Katie Rich]

I remember the year that Suburban was at Tiff and David. You talked to Clooney then, because I think he was trying to go and.

[David Sims]

Being like, look, it was the pre. No, but it was like the pre release apology. Let me explain.

[Katie Rich]

Basically, they're like, trying to, like, tell you why his movie actually isn't that bad.

[Griffin Newman]

It is one of my favorite. My single favorite things that came out in the Sony hacks was his email to Amy Pascal after the first completed screening of Monuments Men, right? Where he's like, amy, what can I say? Sometimes you miss, I'm sorry. You gave me a bunch of money. You entrusted me. Sometimes the elements just don't come together. We're all embarrassed by this one. We're going to hold our heads high, march forward, work, and you're like, he up Monuments Man. When that movie was announced on paper, you were like, unquestionable B minus.

[David Sims]

Such a sleepy movie. Like, it made that one at least made money.

[Griffin Newman]

Shockingly shocking because as a Marshall right before that.

[Katie Rich]

And that movie was. Was that a B minus? I don't remember it that well. I felt like we received.

[David Sims]

I just despise that movie. It was literally nominated for an Academy Award for writing it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

One of the most charitable Oscar nominations I've ever seen.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it was charitable. Read it like a B minus when it's more of a C Pl.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it is an F. That movie is really rancid.

[Katie Rich]

If you watch it, would you like it now having seen Midnight sky and Socrates. Okay.

[David Sims]

Ides of March is worse because it like really thinks it's smart and it's like we are. This is a really, really sophisticated political thriller. And it's like really. It's got kind of nasty. It's a bad, bad movie.

[Katie Rich]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

If anything, we were maybe a little kinder to it in the moment because you were like, look, Leatherheads was a mistake. He's getting back to the kind of thing he should be making because he.

[Katie Rich]

Was on Good Night and good luck for such a long time being like, look, that movie worked.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not as good as Good Night and Good, but he's back in his area.

[Katie Rich]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Griffin Newman]

And now you're just like, the guy lost it and he was never getting it back.

[Katie Rich]

He got a lot.

[David Sims]

I mean, because Leatherheads, it's a terrible movie. I saw that movie also that, you know, the occasional Hail Mary. You see someone throw of like can we do kind of a breast and Sturgis?

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Like you're throwing a football as you.

[David Sims]

And like Leatherheads also is bad.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But beyond it being bad, it's like also, even if you make a good one, audiences are mostly just gonna be.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, I don't your old timey foosball love triangle.

[David Sims]

I'm just doing this kind of like, take the ball, come on. You want it, Come on.

[Katie Rich]

And John Krasinski got to continue being a movie star after that. Despite that, it feels the whole thing.

[Griffin Newman]

With me was one of the big people pushing the Krasinski project for a long time.

[Katie Rich]

I think so. Well, he's a. He's a voice in. If I'm looking at his IMDb.

[Griffin Newman]

I forgot all about him.

[David Sims]

I think Krasinski is really good at making friends. I'm not saying Krasinski has no talent, but he's really. Because I hear a lot about. About really respected people of John Krasinski and I'm always like, really? But also, he's a nice 15 years.

[Griffin Newman]

Of Damon and Clooney being like, we're telling you, Krasinski is the next one of us. And it seems promised land a long way. Yes. We're writing movies with him, we're casting him. We think he's got the goods to be a multi tool player. If I just want to call out the single greatest movie to play in cinematics.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, because everybody's in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Because it has 20 A list voice actors with one sentence.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

I just. I implore all of our listeners to look up the character posters for if.

[David Sims]

There'S like 40 of them.

[Griffin Newman]

That's all you need to memorize is just the character posters.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Because there's just that one scene where I have seen the motion picture. If I saw it in theaters, and they all just come in for a hot second. Or Clooney might be in, like, the post credits. No, it's Brad Pitt, who shows up at the very, very end, is like a silent character, but you.

[Griffin Newman]

You play a pit spaceman or Clooney.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

If on Cinematrix, you're guaranteed 1, if not 0%.

[David Sims]

Maybe I got to get back into cinematics.

[Griffin Newman]

You do.

[David Sims]

I've let it fall off, so. But Clooney. What's interesting about Clooney is he just had that run that I just shouted out. Right. The sort of late 90s, early 2000s. He did it after, of course, being a star in the biggest TV show in America, which is, you know. No. Not trustworthy either. And then it's like. Like Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, which is a niche movie. It's pretty good. Solaris, which is a huge bomb and is a masterpiece according to, like, eight people, one of whom is me. Intolerable cruelty, Ocean's Twelve. And then one year later, he does Good night and good luck in Syriana and wins the Oscar.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And that's one of those things of, like, okay, good job.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

You won an Oscar.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You gave an infatuous speech that everyone kind of made fun of. But, like, you won an Oscar.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Smuggler.

[David Sims]

But doesn't it kind of feel like it's, like, over a little bit right there? Like, it's like, he still makes Ocean 13. Michael Clayton. He makes good movies.

[Katie Rich]

Michael Clayton is.

[David Sims]

But it's a new era now. It's like, gray hair, Clooney, like, he's no longer. He's already kind of gone away from whatever this little era was. The out of sight to, I think what next.

[Griffin Newman]

The next era is. It's Descendants. Up in the Air, Gravity. Gravity.

[David Sims]

The American. Which is.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, I remember. I remember that.

[David Sims]

You know, Burn after reading, obviously, Michael Clayton.

[Griffin Newman]

The big three. For me, the three best actor nominations of Michael Clayton, up in the Air and Descendants are like, he cut his quote to nothing.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He worked with a younger or rising auteur.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And he, like, pushed the movie to, like, best picture, best Director status. Got a best actor nomination three times. All three times, people were like, is he gonna win a second acting Oscar? Because he was sort of so in his movie star pocket. Right. And all three of those movies become, like, crossover cable Classic middlebrow hits.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But also like, up in the air, 80 domestic descendants. Like 70 domestic. Michael Clayton, 60 domestic. It was like he is willing to like, cut his quote to like $2 million and make a movie, a crossover. That felt like a kind of good period for him.

[David Sims]

But it's like, it's a somewhat distinct era, you think, like, it's distinct from that first one. And it's almost like, ends with, like, Tomorrowland.

[Griffin Newman]

I would agree.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And I'd say. Which is like him trying to make a more traditional tent pole again.

[David Sims]

Right, right.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Because Money Monster, coming out the same year as Hale Caesar doesn't exist.

[David Sims]

That's the true epilogue.

[Katie Rich]

That's the end.

[Griffin Newman]

But like, hail Monster Gravity. Those are like sort of like, I'll do a supporting role to help out a project kind of things.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But you're right that all of these roles are now like kind of postmodern Clooney movie star Persona where he's playing the sad over the hill version of the totem.

[Katie Rich]

You build the movie around being like, this movie is aware of his star Persona. It has to exist. And we're dismantling this movie. Yeah, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

We're, like, showing that maybe this guy's kind of broken and stuff.

[Ben Hosley]

Side doesn't cost, amigos.

[David Sims]

So I was about to say I.

[Ben Hosley]

Have exactly for you in 2013.

[David Sims]

No, I'm going to tell you exactly what happened. Hail caesar. Money Monster 2016, he sold the company Casamigos. Well, Tequila Operation he has going on with his buddy. Ride motorcycles, house of friends, wear jackets. In 2017, I interview him.

[Ben Hosley]

It sold.

[David Sims]

You said, okay, he sold it in 2017. I interview him in 2017 for Suburban Leprechaun, and he says very blankly, like, I have more money than God. Like, I mean, he doesn't say exactly that, but he's basically like, from now on, if I am in something or if I'm making something, it is only because I'm interested in it. I have. Hollywood can give me nothing like money.

[Griffin Newman]

And then you.

[David Sims]

I have so much money, you look at the cv.

[Griffin Newman]

From that point on, you're like, huh? So you were exclusively interested in boring dog, shitty taste. Huh?

[David Sims]

But, like, it truly is. He's basically. And I appreciate in theory, because all the movies he made are, you know, not franchise movies. He's making original stuff like yada. You know, it's like, in theory, I'm like, cool, thank you. Good job. But it's just. They're all bad.

[Ben Hosley]

Is he a blank check director?

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

The worst guy you guys are gonna.

[Katie Rich]

Have a great time on that one.

[David Sims]

Who makes bad movie.

[Katie Rich]

Are you aware that he was at a limited series version of Catch 22?

[David Sims]

The entire thing. He went to every streamer because that was Hulu.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then Midnight sky was Netflix. Tender Bar was Amazon. And I swear there's an Apple one in there too.

[Griffin Newman]

Wolves Boys in the Boat was Amazon.

[Katie Rich]

Mgn.

[David Sims]

Yes, that was also Amazon. Like, he just.

[Griffin Newman]

He went to the.

[David Sims]

Hopped around the streamers collecting bags of money to give him C plus, you know, C plus. Everybody take your seat.

[Griffin Newman]

No, catch 22 was him and Grant Haslov wrote and directed and he was going to play the lead. At the last second, he decided he was too old. So Casper Rabbit. And he plays Shy Scuff.

[David Sims]

He plays a smaller role.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

But you know, Big Cat, you know, Kyle Chandler and Lewis Pullman and you know, lots of.

[Griffin Newman]

Doesn't exist.

[Katie Rich]

Doesn't exist.

[David Sims]

And I look, if I'm Clooney, I can be like, well, the pandemic, you know, but it's like not just the pandemic. You have. He's a smart guy. When I interviewed him, he's so smart. He's married to this genius. He's like political, yada, yada. But like, I'm like, yeah, but he's kind of middlebrow like he is. And it's like when he was picking your up in the ears, you're Descent. Those are Middle Brown movies. Even Michael Clayton, they're just like really good ones. I mean, Descendants is just okay. And up in the air, she was.

[Griffin Newman]

Making like incredible intelligent adult popcorn. And then suddenly it's like he's making unseasoned vegetables every time.

[David Sims]

Yes, he's just boiling some broccoli.

[Griffin Newman]

But like, he's like puree boiled on.

[Katie Rich]

Does he have bad taste? Because he can't because he works with.

[David Sims]

So many medium taste.

[Katie Rich]

I guess so.

[David Sims]

And then he's. Yes, he's smart enough. Look, I don't know. I have great taste, in my opinion.

[Katie Rich]

Can you direct a. Can you direct Boys in the Boat?

[David Sims]

No, but I'm saying, like. And if you're like, here, you have unlimited money and clout. David, what do you want to make? I'd probably make a bunch of dog shit. I'm not that, like, you have to be a certain kind of person. And I do think pressure helps.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You know, like, it's better to be under pressure. Clooney's under no pressure pressure. So like, that's. That's probably kind of bad in a way.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's also call out on top of the Casamigos money.

[David Sims]

Yeah. He's also already rich, we should point out. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Already rich. But also Gravity. The FX budget was so huge on that movie and it was developed to be Angelina Jolie and Robert Downey Jr. And they both drop out late.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And when he goes to Bullock and Clooney, he's like, I can't offer you money because the money's all on screen. Screen. You both get back end. I believe Clooney got tens of millions of dollars.

[David Sims]

I think you made a ton of money.

[Griffin Newman]

Sandra Bullock made like 100 million.

[Katie Rich]

I hope she made more.

[David Sims]

Yeah, well, I mean, Sandra Bullock made again, the kind of money where you're like, huh, she just kind of stopped making movies, like. Because she just doesn't.

[Katie Rich]

That's always what I want to happen for, especially.

[Griffin Newman]

I truly think she made 100. I think she did.

[David Sims]

I mean, it was a huge money.

[Katie Rich]

For the movie.

[David Sims]

Moon.

[Griffin Newman]

The moon.

[David Sims]

The moon. They had to shoot it at it with a big cannon. The money. They shot a big bag of money.

[Griffin Newman]

Orbit around the moon, as to speak. No, it was such a big hit. And because it was seen as so risky, they offered them so much of first dollar.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So let's defend intolerable. Cruel.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, I was going to say David.

[David Sims]

Okay, okay, I'll be quiet.

[Griffin Newman]

Quiet.

[David Sims]

Oh, I'm. I'm used to it.

[Griffin Newman]

Producer Ben is sleeping.

[David Sims]

Oh, hazy, hazy boy is getting some. Exactly. Getting some.

[Griffin Newman]

Multiple dashes.

[David Sims]

What's he sleeping on?

[Griffin Newman]

He's sleeping on one of the new beds we got from Wayfair for the studio for our podcast Naps. But this is a big opportunity for us. We get to do the first ad read for Wayfair on this podcast.

[Katie Rich]

Podcast.

[David Sims]

No, no, Griffin, you're clearly not listening to past recordings. Ben did a Wayfair ad for us recently.

[Griffin Newman]

You listen to past recordings?

[David Sims]

Yeah, sometimes.

[Griffin Newman]

That's psycho behavior.

[David Sims]

It is.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, he did that when we were sleeping.

[David Sims]

Look, apparently we need to talk about how when you hear the word game day, you might not think Wayfair, but you should. Because Wayfair is the best kept secret for incredible and affordable game day fines.

[Griffin Newman]

Makes perfect sense to me.

[David Sims]

It's absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

And just try to. David, just if you could please maintain a slightly quiet. We don't have to go full whisper. I just want to remind you that Haas is sleeping.

[David Sims]

I mostly just think of Wayfair as some. A website where you can get basically anything.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, of course. But Wayfair is also the ideal place to get game day essentials, bigger selection, created collections, options for every budget slash.

[David Sims]

Price point you want to make like a sort of man cave style is David. Okay, Fine. Okay. All right. Sorry. You know, Wayfair stuff gets delivered really fast, hassle free. The delivery is free if you for game day specifically, Griffin, you could think about things like recliners and TV stands. Sure. Or outdoor stuff like coolers and grills and patio heaters. Like that's, you know, that's all on winter months.

[Griffin Newman]

David, you have like basically a football team worth of family at home. You got a whole team to cheer up.

[David Sims]

This is true.

[Griffin Newman]

You need cribs. Your place must be lousy with cribs.

[David Sims]

I. I do have fainting beds.

[Griffin Newman]

I have cribs, sconces, chaise lounges.

[David Sims]

I'm low on sconces. Maybe. Maybe it's time to pick up a few.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the kind of thing that would make your home team cheer.

[David Sims]

Look, I'm just going to say that Wayfair is your trusted destination for all things game day, from coolers and grills to recliners and slow cookers. Shop, save and score today at Wayfair.com that's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair every style, every home.

[Katie Rich]

David.

[Griffin Newman]

There's only one shame to this ad read.

[David Sims]

Don't weigh Causey.

[Griffin Newman]

There's only one shame to this ad read that I didn't find out about this in time before. I already purchased coolers, grills, folding chairs, patio heaters, recliners, barware, slow cookers, sports themed decor merch for my favorite teams and more. If only I team Cleveland Browns, of course. Fonte Mac no matter what.

[David Sims]

Draw two Mac no matter.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, that's the end of the app.

[David Sims]

Bye.

[Griffin Newman]

David.

[Katie Rich]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

This episode of Blank Check with Griffin David Podcast spell from O linker fees is brought to you by booking.combooking. yeah, I mean, that's what I was about to say. Booking. Yeah. From vacation rentals to hotels across the U.S. booking.com yeah. Has the ideal stay for anyone, even those who might seem impossible to please. God, I'm trying to think of anyone in my life, perhaps even in this room. Ben, who's like, what's an example of someone I know who maybe has very.

[David Sims]

Particular set of bringing me in and.

[Ben Hosley]

There'S only one other person in the room.

[Griffin Newman]

There's one other person in the room right now.

[David Sims]

My goodness is so rude. I sleep easy. I'm definitely not someone who insists on 800 thread count sheets. No, that's an example of a fussy person.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, people have different demands. And you know what? If you're traveling, that's your time to start making demands.

[David Sims]

Maybe you've got a partner who's sleep light, rise early, or maybe know, like, you just want someone who wants a pool or wants a view or, I.

[Griffin Newman]

Don'T know, maybe I'm traveling and I need a room with some good soundproofing because I'm gonna be doing some remote pod record. Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

Maybe you're in Europe and you want to make sure.

[Griffin Newman]

That's very demanding to be in Europe.

[Ben Hosley]

You got air conditioning. Well, think of one person in particular, although it's really both of you. Yeah, you gotta have air conditioning.

[David Sims]

I need air conditioning from in the North Pole. Look, if I can find my perfect stay on booking.com, anyone can. Booking.com is definitely the easiest way to find exactly what you're looking for.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, for me, a non negotiable is I need a gorgeous bathroom for selfies.

[David Sims]

You do. You love selfies.

[Griffin Newman]

As long as I got a good bathroom mirror for selfies, I'm happy with everything else.

[David Sims]

Look there. Again, they. They. They're specifying like, oh, maybe you want a sauna or hot tub. And I'm like, sounds good to me. Yeah, please, can I check that?

[Griffin Newman]

You want one of those in the recording studio?

[David Sims]

That'd be great.

[Griffin Newman]

You want to start? You want to be.

[David Sims]

I'll be in the sauna when we record.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say you. You want to be the Dalton Trumbo, a podcast. You want to be Splish splash.

[David Sims]

You would be good if I had a sauna and a cold plunge and. And while recording, I'm on mic, but you just look like. As I move to the.

[Griffin Newman]

These are the kinds of demands that. Booking.combooking. yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes. You can find exactly what you're booking for. Booking.combooking. yeah. Booking.com book today on the site or in the app. Booking.com booking.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So we go Jeffrey Rush extended sequence, and then we go to Edward Herman, who loves trains.

[David Sims]

Do we think he has a full. Like, he has to. The trains have to be involved for him to get it up. There's this sort of, like, quiet acknowledgment of, like, trains are involved with sex.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, what's this line he says to Queenie where she lets me be myself?

[Katie Rich]

Yes. Oh, he's so happy about it, too. But there's weird sex stuff before that, too, because you see Clooney, the courtroom with the like the woman who's like. And he built devices with my vacuum.

[David Sims]

Cleaner which is like a preview of.

[Katie Rich]

Burn after reading with a sex machine.

[Griffin Newman]

One of the greatest. Yes. I mean slow burn bits of all time.

[David Sims]

But also that it just feels very Cohen of like right, let's cast the most milquetoast middle aged lady with like big hair and glasses and have her be like I was his sexual slave. You know, while like Clooney and Paul Adeline are just like bickering with each other.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also the kind of thing that the Cohen love to just like come in on is just like. It's so funny that there's just this whatchamacallit. The like the typist, the court stenographer.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. When she comes in later being like do you want a milk bone? Woof woof. Or whatever. Whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's just like if that didn't exist, the Cohen's would create it. That you're so you're telling me some disinfected woman just sit there at a typewriter and type up every insane thing said.

[Katie Rich]

No, I mean thinking of the woman in the courtroom in this one. I'm thinking of the woman in the trailer park in no country for old Men. Are they the best at like middle aged women with dowdy hair just being flat Hilarious.

[Griffin Newman]

It's vital to.

[Katie Rich]

Yes, it's.

[David Sims]

They're gestalt or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

I mean essential to them but also I guess they've never made a legal movie before. Right. You know like the courtroom is a great venue for them to be silly. The Cohens and all of the courtroom scenes in this movie are so funny. Poetry recitation. Objection. You're on a strangling witness. I'm going to allow it. Like stuff like that. Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

So broad.

[David Sims]

Just like this sort of get smart joke of like Heinz the bound Kraus Van Espien. The. The bailiffs keep opening doors and announcing.

[Griffin Newman]

It further and further and further. Let's also call out Katie.

[David Sims]

She specifically said a silly man. I love that. Who's that guy?

[Katie Rich]

Who was that guy?

[Griffin Newman]

That's fucking. What's his name? Jonathan Hardesty.

[David Sims]

Yes, you're right. Jonathan Hatery Hattery.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the lawyer in fucking Margaret. Oh, he's the guy who runs all the prisons. The for profit prison monger in Versus.

[David Sims]

Right. Yeah, he's did a bunch of beeps.

[Griffin Newman]

Daughter is Mary Holland who Tim Symonds gets hooked up with.

[Katie Rich]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

He's like in a thousand things he's.

[David Sims]

Got a ton of Credits.

[Griffin Newman]

He looks different in this than everything else that I always forget it's him.

[David Sims]

Because he's got the eyes. He always has those eyes. But you're right, he's.

[Griffin Newman]

He usually plays a kind of like rumpled menchie.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So fucking funny.

[Griffin Newman]

He's so good. But, Katie, you alluded to this, but the introduction of Clooney is through his teeth. Right. So that were hard.

[David Sims]

And truth to him because like in. Oh brother, it's his hair here, it's.

[Griffin Newman]

His teeth, the bleaching. Right. I just like this immediate. Like, we're dealing with the ultimate movie star.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And we're starting out by showing you how the sausage get made. It gets made of, like, how much work goes into making this guy look like this.

[Katie Rich]

And it helps balance the scales of the women and the plastic surgery. I think, because I do like the way that it gets at, like rich Hollywood people. Like that. That part of it, like, works less well to me. Like the women sitting by the pool and talking about their liposuction and stuff like that.

[Griffin Newman]

Like.

[Katie Rich]

Like that again, feels more broad and Cohen's. Yes. But having that emphasis on Clooney, I think helps balance it out. And like the pan to his, like, movie star smile and the score, you know, swells as he's standing at the desk. Like, brings it back to being something.

[Griffin Newman]

More than just an ambitious minds into the sport.

[Katie Rich]

So good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's so good. And it also. It's just like, it gives you a drum roll. So when you get to the full reveal of Clooney's full face, because we're seeing him in the. In the chair first. Then we're seeing him in the car where the reflection is that you're only seeing the teeth and nothing else. And you're just seeing him test out the teeth in the rearview mirror and everything. It feels so satisfying when you're getting the full Clooney burst. But I also like that it's kind of a everyone wants to be Clark Gable, even me thing.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Of like, this guy is a construction. These people are constructions. No one is just like this.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And these people are very caught up in their reputation and their mythology and the massy prenup and all these things.

[Katie Rich]

Things.

[Griffin Newman]

And then we just seen him. Right? He's. He's an ultimate conqueror. But he's so bored, he can barely get it up for this.

[David Sims]

He's torn down his house twice just for fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Like, Right.

[Katie Rich]

We never seen his house.

[David Sims]

He has a tab at the Mercedes dealership. We don't think we ever see his house.

[Katie Rich]

We know it's at the. At the end. That's where the house invasion is. Because she's in his house. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And you see his tennis court.

[Katie Rich]

Right.

[David Sims]

But, like, he's a person with no interests. He's only good at this.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Well, that's what I mean.

[David Sims]

He's created, of course, the. An unbreakable prenup agreement that is, like, legally profound, which I just think is.

[Griffin Newman]

Like a perfect screwball. Just like, you come up with the idea of something that is so important and so huge that you will never break down and explain.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

They never get into what makes the Massy prenup so good.

[Katie Rich]

If you tear a piece of paper, does that render it legally invalid in this movie? It says to me, if that's real.

[David Sims]

If you put it. That's why Richard Jenkins putting it all in the. In the briefcase and running away is really funny. You're like, he's going to tape it up.

[Griffin Newman]

The Massy prenup. But then also, we should acknowledge Edward Herman is busted by a camera crew led by Gus Petch.

[David Sims]

Gus Petch, played by Cedric the Entertainer, who's, like, firmly in his early post.

[Griffin Newman]

Barbershop.

[David Sims]

Barbershop. You know, kind of original Kings of Comedy where it's just like, get this guy in movies. 10 minutes of Cedric, please.

[Katie Rich]

Yep. Like, he's gonna nail your ass.

[David Sims]

And, like. Right. You're ordering at the. And then you're like, and you know what? 10 minutes of Cedric. Have him in her.

[Griffin Newman]

Gus Petsch likes doing one thing.

[David Sims]

Thing. Nail an ass. He's an ass and he nails it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

And I would have kicked his ass if he busted in on me.

[Griffin Newman]

You would have nailed his ass for trying to nail yours?

[David Sims]

I would have took that camera and.

[Ben Hosley]

I would have nailed his ass with it.

[David Sims]

I do love. This is the only period where it would still be like an over the shoulder. Like, it's less fun if it's a stupid.

[Katie Rich]

And it needs have a huge light, like, blaring on that poor woman in her underwear.

[Griffin Newman]

But you're right. It is a thing that I think people couldn't verbalize at the time where they were like, how can this movie exist in a modern reality TV landscape? But yet everyone is talking like they are in the Great Depression.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Which it makes perfect. Like, it's fine if you want to set that up. But, like, getting people to actually buy into it without actually seeing it is the hard part.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

So, yes, he successfully defends Rex. R. Rex. Rex Ross. Rex.

[Katie Rich]

Rex Roth.

[David Sims]

This is also Edward Herman, of course, is like right in the middle of his sweetie run on Gilmore Girl. So it's fun to see him be a rascal.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And even though Marilyn Katherine Zia Jones is ostensibly in the right. Basically they've got the great showdown with Richard Jenkins that, you know, that's the K's in Kentucky. Kirchner K's in Kentucky. Nuts. Have you forgotten K?

[Griffin Newman]

This was the scene I'd watched the movies a couple days ago and my girlfriend was disappointed because she was like, oh, I've never seen that. And I was like, I just watched. Can I just show you the one scene? So, like, show you the thing that no one gets and I think you'll lock into it immediately. And I just showed her this one scene and it's just like a three minute symphony of dialogue. It is basically just two. Two shots reversed right around a table, just on fire. Just like precision Swiss watch timing and the overlapping threads that keep circling back.

[Katie Rich]

The way that it implies a relationship between Jenkins and Clooney's like, oh, sorry about the award or whatever it was. And he's like taunting him over the pastries. Like, there's so much history between those two guys.

[Griffin Newman]

He just knows exactly how to, like, cuck him.

[David Sims]

Yes. And make him have so good at the. I mean, you know, he's just perfect.

[Griffin Newman]

Early in the incredible.

[David Sims]

It's not like early in Richard Jenkins's career, obviously. He's been working for so long.

[Griffin Newman]

The 2000s are when Hollywood start finally giving him his power.

[Katie Rich]

He's on Six Feet under at this point.

[David Sims]

Yes, but he was. He was like, you know, know, a spark plug in that show because he was dead. Spoiler alert for the opening seconds of season two. But he dies.

[Griffin Newman]

But he comes back along the ghost.

[David Sims]

And he'll come in and like, be sarcastic and all that. And like, he's in man who Wasn't There. Also, as a lawyer, from what I remember, we haven't done that episode yet. And the Cohen love him. And I remember they gave some interview where you're like, if you need like a sort of milk toast fussy guy like Richard Jenkins.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course, Harley Brothers also used him a lot. He's in all of their.

[David Sims]

He's in Me, Myself and Irene. He's tiny role.

[Griffin Newman]

He's really good. In Hall Pass. He plays a pickup artist in Hall Pass.

[David Sims]

That sounds good. I've never.

[Griffin Newman]

Jenkins with like a fedora and like Ed Hardy shirts.

[Katie Rich]

How many Cohen is he in? He's in Burn after reading after this.

[David Sims]

Oh, he's in Burn After Reading. Right. So three. I think that's it.

[Griffin Newman]

That's his.

[Katie Rich]

Could have found more room for him.

[Griffin Newman]

Come on. Year the Burn After Reading Visitor.

[Katie Rich]

Is that the same year as a visitor? Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Step brothers are all here.

[David Sims]

Step brothers is obviously his peak and American acting's peak.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Would you say. Yeah, I don't give a. Is like. Like, you can use that any time. But the.

[Griffin Newman]

It's all the dinosaurs.

[David Sims]

Well, obviously the dinosaur stuff at the end is amazing, which is entirely improvised.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know that M was just like. Just come up with something. There's the moment where he starts doing the T. Rex arms and he looks down at them as if, like, remembering what he's lost.

[David Sims]

You know, what we're talking about in.

[Ben Hosley]

I haven't seen the. The movie in a while.

[David Sims]

But he just tells the boys at the end, like, I also had dreams once. I wanted to be a dinosaur.

[Griffin Newman]

And they're like, telling them to grow up.

[Ben Hosley]

I do remember this.

[Griffin Newman]

He spends the whole movie being like, you have to be adults. You have to get a job. You have to give responsibility. At the end of the movie, at the Catalina wine Mixer, they're, like, both doing jobs, and they're, like, talking about taxes with each other joylessly. And he's just like, I can't believe I'm going to sit say this, but this is depressing. You guys need to go back to doing what you were doing before. And they were like, dad, we like, like Roth iras. Like, come on.

[David Sims]

Like.

[Griffin Newman]

And then he's just like, no, no. And his big emotional speech about, like, not losing your flame is that when I was a child, I wanted to be a dinosaur. And my parents told me, you can't do that. And I gave up my dreams, and I thought someday I'd circle back to being a dinosaur, and it never had the chance. And then they just keep going, like.

[David Sims]

What do you mean, you be a dinos?

[Griffin Newman]

And he was like, I was so good at it. I put my arms at my side and I. I would roar. And they're like, but you're a human. You can never be a dinosaur. He's like, that's what. I let them convince me.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, that's crazy. That he improvised.

[David Sims]

Is going to eat your dick like Kobayashi. I don't. Step brothers is still good, right? Problem with step brothers.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's five stars.

[David Sims]

The whole. The best Jenkins, apart from shut the upper up is. Is that it? Or when. When's it. When John C. Reilly just does the long monologue about how Mary Steenberg is going to want to him.

[Griffin Newman]

That's like the introduction to those characters. So long from my chest cubes down to my ball throw. And then I think he breaks a plate.

[David Sims]

Anyway, you know what?

[Katie Rich]

Rich Jenkinson, what's up? He's an if putting that out there.

[Griffin Newman]

He plays a little wooden.

[Katie Rich]

He's an artist.

[Griffin Newman]

He's an art version of himself.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He hasn't been in a movie movie. For accepting his voice role in if since Nightmare Alley, which he's very good in. And I don't.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, he done, like, four shitty TV shows.

[David Sims]

He played, like, Jeffrey Dahmer's dad in.

[Griffin Newman]

Great.

[David Sims]

The Jeffrey Dahmer thing. Thank God. A few. And now he's inside the Ed Brubaker adaptation of Criminal.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Which I'm very excited for.

[Griffin Newman]

Ed Baker, friend of the show. Inexplicably one of those people who's so important to David and I, who is now a list listener and text with us. But in whatever recent Cohen's episode, we were saying, where's Jenkins been? And he's like, he's crushing on Criminal.

[David Sims]

Which is gonna be on Amazon. I think I'm prime video. But let's get. I want him back. I need more Jenkins. You know, he introduced Divine Joy Randolph at the Critics Circle the year she won, which was what, 20, 20, 24. When was that? 3.

[Katie Rich]

3.

[David Sims]

3 for holdovers. Because they did some tiny movie together that no one ever saw.

[Katie Rich]

Right. You guys have talked about this on air. I've heard you talk about this in another episode.

[David Sims]

I never.

[Katie Rich]

Is this is the first. Why did you guys talk about Richard Jenkins already? Because first Cohen's. He was in. I have no idea why he's coming up for.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. He came up recently. Whatever.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So, yeah. So all that, basically, what happens within Miles before he destroys Miles. Marilyn in the court room, they go out to dinner.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I just. I'm sorry to finish giving Richard Jenkins his flowers. The thing that's so beautiful about that scene that all rests on Jenkins shoulders is how quickly he goes from kind of like begrudgingly accepting the way that Clooney bites him down to at the end being so emotionally overcome with, like, I'm going to take my briefcase and go home. Like that Clooney's destroyed his spirits, right? Yes.

[David Sims]

But Clooney asked Satan Jones out to dinner sort of as a kind of, like, again, extension of his boredom of, like, maybe I just take her out to dinner. Like, if she's, you know, like, it's. It's such an ethical. What. You know what I'm saying?

[Katie Rich]

Legally, is he allowed to do this? I have that question, but who cares?

[Griffin Newman]

But I do think there's like a little bit of, like, Ethan Hunt, Elsa Faust in this movie where it's just like they immediately lock eyes.

[Katie Rich]

Game recognized game.

[Griffin Newman]

We're the only two people on the planet who operate at this level.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. I mean, the way they order wine together is like a rat. A tat. Dialogue is gorgeous.

[David Sims]

So their dinner scene is nice. Again, this is where I. I'm sorry, Catherine. I think she's like, good. I wish someone was amazing in this role.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, so can I just.

[David Sims]

Because Clooney is elite in this.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I get my take?

[David Sims]

Yeah. What's your take?

[Griffin Newman]

After watching this movie?

[David Sims]

And is there a right. A better.

[Griffin Newman]

I was like, I really want to watch Lady Eve again.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Because it's not like this is like a quiet remake of Lady Eve, but I do think it pulls a lot of things from Lady Eve.

[David Sims]

Obvious fans who don't know the Lady Eve. It's one of the better movies ever made.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Barbara Stanwick and Henry Fonda.

[Griffin Newman]

Preston Sturgis movies movie about an elite con artist, card sharp, who multiple times romances the heir to an ale fortune. There's a lot of difference between beer and ale. And it's a similar movie where there's this kind of like she keeps running different cons on him based on who has the power in the situation. And you're part of the mystery of the movie is like, when are their real feelings and when are they not? And what's motivating what and when? Is it just about money and whatever. But that movie is all basically told from her perspective. Even though you meet him first?

[David Sims]

No, he's the mark.

[Griffin Newman]

You're getting her doing the kind of ocean style, here's what I'm going to do. And you have the scenes where she's going back to her father and explaining what's changing in her mind. Mind. So you're not sure if she's going to be able to pull it off. But the fun is her outlining what her intentions or her plans are and how things get in the way. In this movie, the character is kind of a sphinx. It's clearly what they're sort of enjoying is that you're watching the film and it has these gaps where you're like, wait, what just happened? Why did we just cut ahead six months?

[David Sims]

Yeah, I mean, I guess.

[Griffin Newman]

And that you need to untangle it after the fact. Only at the end do you realize everything she's done.

[David Sims]

Right. They're hiding the movie's biggest twist, which they want to hide because it's a twist of like when she reappears with Billy Bob Thornton.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

That's.

[Katie Rich]

We have not even brought up yet.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Katie Rich]

Well, we're gonna get there.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But I guess that's. But I just. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

But I think it means there's not that much she can play. It's obvious to say, well, isn't the best version of this Julia Roberts? Because you just imagine the whole movie having the liar in a thief. She's sassy energy, Right?

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You see this scene of them at the dinner table together and you imagine.

[Katie Rich]

That scene in Ocean 11.

[Griffin Newman]

Perfect.

[Katie Rich]

Which is just perfect.

[David Sims]

Who are the big other kind of, you know, elite female stars who could. Right. I'm just trying to think, like, not.

[Katie Rich]

To conjure leatherheads again, but could Renee Zellweger have done it?

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Katie Rich]

No. You don't think so?

[David Sims]

I. I don't think she's a good act. I mean, and she's my big problem with Down With Love.

[Griffin Newman]

See, I love her and look, Down With Love.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I do not. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

She couldn't have done With Love.

[Katie Rich]

I guess she kind of have to pick one or the other.

[David Sims]

But obviously she and Clooney. Right. They did try it. Chemistry.

[Griffin Newman]

He's already done a Julia movie. He's already done Michelle Pfeiffer. Someone who could have done this.

[Katie Rich]

She could have done it. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Who else is in that?

[David Sims]

Michelle Pfeiffer makes sense. She's like, on the cusp of being a little aged out or whatever.

[Katie Rich]

But, yes, Halle Berry is huge at this point, but I don't think she would have worked in this role.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Comedy, not her strong suit. But you're like, who's in goddess territory is an adult woman? Like, it can't be a girl.

[David Sims]

Right? It can't be. Be like Scarlet Johansson or whoever. The new stars are like, you know. Yeah. I don't know. I, I, you know, sure. Julia. I mean, I see.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just saying, look, if you cast Julia in this and they obviously have such good chemistry and they're biting back and forth at each other, I still don't know if Julia makes this part explode because part of this role in construction is you don't know what's going on with her. You're not seeing the heart, the hand she's holding until the very end. Julia, Julian Moore could have been excellent.

[David Sims]

She can kind of do Everything. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

She could have been excellent. She does her own divorce lawyer rom com.

[David Sims]

Ros of Attraction. Not exactly an endorsement of any for doing comedy. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I just had the thought while watching this movie and you miss the fun of the surprise of the complete unraveling at the end and realizing what you didn't realize you've been watching the whole time.

[Katie Rich]

Seem Billy Bob Thornton on the Soap opera is like a key delight that you don't get if you know what's going on.

[Griffin Newman]

The Julia Duffy scenes, which I agree with you, are kind of the broadest and the least interesting parts of the movie, instead had more of a sense of who is this character? What is animating her? Her planning. And it felt like the movie was more of a tennis match and less we're seeing it's perspective and she's unknowable. I think there's a certain degree to which this part as written couldn't be played better than it is. Maybe you're right, because the meat of the role is actually not. Not depicted on screen.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And it is supposed to be like, right, you're this beautiful, sphinx, like woman. And she's totally good at that. And so my suggestion of. What about Holly Hunter Cohen's collaborator? She's older than Clooney by three years, probably.

[Katie Rich]

Would she work as the, like, the like gliding.

[David Sims]

No, but she is, all right.

[Katie Rich]

The one I was going to throw out.

[Griffin Newman]

And they're great and oh, brother, together. They have their back.

[Katie Rich]

That's true.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the other thing. You're like, who has he worked with? Right. Already at this point, he tends to work with Kidman. There's a universe which Kidman could have done this.

[David Sims]

Kidman absolutely could have done this. This is an era where she could have done something like this. Stepford Wives is around this time or whatever.

[Katie Rich]

This would have been a much better choice than Stepford Wives.

[Griffin Newman]

But he's basically worked with all the A listers in his age group.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Did he ever.

[Katie Rich]

Sandra Bullock could have done it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. He doesn't do that until Gravity.

[David Sims]

Yeah, she could have. This is like she's still a big star.

[Katie Rich]

Like, she hasn't really isn't too far away from this.

[David Sims]

But it's definitely because, like, by the time she was in Crash, which is a couple years later, you were kind of like, oh, Sandy Bullock.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, then she disappears again into Blindside.

[Katie Rich]

The other one I was going to throw out is Charlize. I think she could have done it. She wasn't doing comedies then.

[David Sims]

No. This is the year she Does Monster. She's not really a proven actor yet.

[Katie Rich]

So she's not big enough yet to hold her own against Clooney.

[David Sims]

I don't think so.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, that's fair.

[David Sims]

Did Clooney never worked with Winslet, did he? I'm looking at like best actress.

[Katie Rich]

I don't know if.

[David Sims]

I don't think he ever did.

[Katie Rich]

I don't know if I would have worked in this.

[David Sims]

Yeah, Cameron Diaz. No, I'm finding an obvious, like, you know, Uma. Yeah, Uma's look, this is the Kill Bill year. Yeah, Uma's a little in the wilderness too. Kill kind of, you know, is her first big hit in a long time.

[Katie Rich]

How's Uma? Comedy like this, though, like fast.

[David Sims]

Uma's a weird one.

[Griffin Newman]

That's not her.

[Katie Rich]

Ben. Ben just said solely Uma and then pulled the mic back away is like, that's it. Mike. Dr.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, Blanchett's the one, I think could have been interesting, but she's not really famous. Considered her in this way.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, she's really in the wilderness in this period. Right. Like pre Aviator.

[David Sims]

How dare you. The missing.

[Katie Rich]

She like breaks out with Elizabeth and then makes like.

[David Sims]

She makes a lot of terrible movies.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the. She's fucking it up.

[David Sims]

I'm obsessed with her prestige run. Post Elizabeth. Pre Oscar.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Where it's truly like, you know, a relief pitcher coming in and throwing like eight wild pitches or whatever. And then, and then suddenly like, you know, we're like, oh, okay, she got it. She got the Oscar. And after she was on the straight.

[Griffin Newman]

And narrow in this same period, Kate Winslet, like two out of every three movies she makes are nothing and yet none of them stick to her.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, like she was kind of where.

[Griffin Newman]

It was like, we all love Winslet.

[Katie Rich]

Well, she had like three Oscar nominations.

[David Sims]

She would just occasionally, you know, do even an Iris. And that would be enough to be like, yeah, we still love Kate Winslet. She shows up. And so, yes, nobody thought about the lives of David Gale or the hideous Kinkies, just to name some movies.

[Katie Rich]

Starring in Titanic probably gets you there too. I don't think Cate Blanchett ever made.

[David Sims]

Anything kind of film that had lingered.

[Griffin Newman]

In the cosmic way.

[David Sims]

I wonder why. Anyway, so he annihilates her in court. So the next sequence is, right, is.

[Katie Rich]

Well, hang on, wait, there is the scene where they go to the diner with Cedric the Entertainer and Paul Epstein orders baby field greens. And the waitress, another perfect middle aged woman, said, what did you just call me?

[David Sims]

What the fuck color would it Be.

[Katie Rich]

And Clinty orders like a overcooked steak with ranch dressing or something.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I get a green salt? And she goes, what other color would it be?

[David Sims]

Maybe feel greens. Who's that?

[Katie Rich]

That's like, if round is funny, like, that's perfect. Cohen's service worker comedy.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, every line in this movie is funny. It's just like a little kind of like jewelry box.

[David Sims]

Can I say, and I don't know if you guys agree with this. I didn't. I didn't announce this yet, but I do think the. The first half is better than the second half. I do think it doesn't run out of steam. Exactly. But the first half, where the stakes are so defined and Clooney is so on fire and the courtroom scenes are so fun, whereas the second half, where it's a little heavier on the plot twists and the kind of like. I love Vegas. Vegas who? It's funny. I'm not mad at it. I'm just saying, like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I just. Okay, so this was another reason I rewatched Lady Eve last night. Is like, Lady Eve is ostensibly a three act movie. Yeah.

[David Sims]

You're talking about one the of of the best movies ever.

[Griffin Newman]

I know, I know. But I was just like, there's a similar thing going on that's very unorthodox in the year that this movie is coming out. Right. Lady Eve is like a three act movie if you actually look at the story. But act one is like 50 minutes long.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Act two is like 20 minutes long and act three is like 10 minutes long. And I think that was a thing back in the screwball era where they were just like this kind of diagrammatic. You need to build your three acts and each one needs to be half an hour. Right. And it needs to be like this clean. They were sort of like, everything is as long long as it can justify being while still being entertaining. And if the boring part of the movie needs to, like, you need to get through that faster than you get through it faster or if something more interesting can happen, then there's four acts. Like, who cares? Right?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

The first 45 minutes of this movie is the dissolution of the marriage to Edward Herman.

[David Sims]

Right. Is. Is the. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Almost half of the film is basically Act 1. And so then it's a movie where the acts speed up as they go.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Because Billy Bob Thornton shows up, you're like, oh, this is the rest of the movie. And it's like, not really. He's of in and out very quickly.

[David Sims]

Yeah. That feels again, sort of like Jenkins of them being like, we just worked with this guy. We loved him. He's so funny. For one second in this, it's like.

[Griffin Newman]

A 20 minute act too.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right. But to conclude act one is he nails her ass, but with the Heinz, the Baron. The Baron Kraus von Espy, who after he sets her up by having her cry about how much she loves Rex. Rexroth, brings in this guy and is basically the guy who's like, I, I found her a rich stupid husband.

[Katie Rich]

He's the Tenzing Norgate.

[Griffin Newman]

Gay, silly man. The tens ignore gay. Just anytime they come up with a good combination of sounds that you can repeat six times.

[Ben Hosley]

And we should just ask, does anyone have any bones in the house here?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, they want the dogs, the milk bones, the ch.

[Katie Rich]

The crunchy for the teeth.

[David Sims]

God. May we? There are no maybes now, may we? But of course, I just think he's funny.

[Katie Rich]

Stuff is funnier later like than the Baron. Like he's not. He's. He's broader stuff than like we Kirk of the Hills or whatever in Vegas.

[David Sims]

I'm really into like Lumiere from Beauty and the Beast being in any movie. Like, I just like that kind of.

[Katie Rich]

With a tiny dog. Ideally.

[David Sims]

With a tiny dog.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, so you love Monuments Man.

[David Sims]

Does it have.

[Katie Rich]

Is Jerry Orbach?

[David Sims]

Oh, duchard.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

Beat Clooney for that Descendants Oscar.

[Griffin Newman]

And that was their, Their, their makeup.

[David Sims]

The crazy thing is that he. Who did he. There's a crazy one he beat in there.

[Griffin Newman]

Brad Pitt and.

[Katie Rich]

Right, that's true.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Anyway, so. So then he annihilates Marilyn and then as we. As you say, it's like six months later. Yeah, right. And it's sort of like he's back to being a nobody. You also back to being born.

[Griffin Newman]

You end that sequence with her with Julia Duffy and her like girl gang saying like, next time, time I gotta. I gotta find a better husband without Klaus. Without a Baron Hines. Yeah. SB Right.

[David Sims]

She also finds Jeffrey Rush. She has the one scene in the middle. She finds him in the alley clutching his trophy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes. But basically you see her call the shot of like, I'm going to do it again. I'm going to do it better and I'm not going to have a 10 ignor that he can use to take me down because she's sort of activated by like this guy caught me. I need to now get the next point on him.

[David Sims]

Right. She thought she had the perfect murder. She didn't. So you assume what she's done is this oil baron who's so stupid. And she, like, gets the prenup signed with Massie. And Massie's like, okay, what's she up to? And then he emotionally tears up the prenup at their ceremony.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Katie Rich]

And Massie's like, okay, the barbecue sauce, Right. He eats it.

[Griffin Newman]

The confidence game of, she hired me.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

She respects me.

[Griffin Newman]

The prenup.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I know what she's after. This guy's money. And yet she's hiring me to do everything.

[David Sims]

Seemingly the long con of, you think it's your idea to get rid of the prenup.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

But of course, the twist is, this is all staged.

[Griffin Newman]

But he's so depressed at the wedding. He sees Billy Bob eat the prenup. He's just like, she's a genius. That's the moment where I think he truly falls in love with her. Where it goes from being a love lust to, like, this is the only other genius on this planet.

[Katie Rich]

Well, and when he realizes the thing with the prenup and he says to her the line, like, now that this marriage is winding down while she's standing in my wedding.

[David Sims]

Right, right. It is.

[Griffin Newman]

Because he's like, mission accomplished. You got what you want.

[Katie Rich]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

You could divorce him tomorrow.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Somewhere in there, before that is where we first meet the, like, senior partner who has the Living Without Intestines magazine in his waiting room. Very Hudsucker proxy.

[David Sims]

It's also a gag that it feels like gets repeated in Serious Man.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And it's another gag that anytime I show this to her girlfriend, they would further back up in the couch. Somehow I be like, I feel like you're paying even less attention. They're like, yeah, well, that scene is scary.

[Griffin Newman]

The people I remember who were Cohen's fans at the time were like, the movie sucks. It doesn't feel like them. Except for there's this old guy and there's this thing with this assassin. Everyone told me those are the only two things that feel like them.

[David Sims]

Yes. Wheezy Joe is definitely right outta raising Arizona.

[Griffin Newman]

This talking about the inherent darkness, Katie, in this movie where it's so surprising that all these different people attach themselves to it and we're, like, lusting after this script. The Cohens are latching onto, like, an honest cynicism within this story. Right. You could imagine the original version of the script and other versions that people directed being much frothy and having a sort of like, they both make each other good people kind of ending.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And this movie is based on the cynicism of how we've Basically set up an industry of marriage. Right. That like, marriage has like morphed from being this like property merger thing to ostensibly being a modern thing based on love. But also we're all kind of quietly ignoring the fact that the big concern is always the money at the center of the thing and that there are people who become fucking millionaires many, many times over at being able to explode marriages or protect marriages or whatever it is.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That all of this is so callous in this notion of a prenup and immediately like at the beginning of your marriage being like. And by the way. Yeah, I don't trust you.

[Katie Rich]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Katie Rich]

Well, it made me wonder because, like, Joel Cohen's obviously been very happily married for a long time. Like, was Ethan going through any divorces in this period?

[Griffin Newman]

Once. Very young. Right before he met Francis.

[David Sims]

This.

[Griffin Newman]

Joel and Ethan have both been married to the same people for decades now. Ethan's marriage seems interesting.

[David Sims]

I would say both have very interesting marriages.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, they both seem to have interesting marriages.

[David Sims]

And they're very. They seem very content in their. Interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. In. In their own ways. They are both major wife guys. But there's the Joel divorce that he kind of never talks about. And it does feel like the early pre Blood Simple. Yes.

[David Sims]

I mean, Joel Cohen obviously is always doing People magazine spreads and he just won't touch that one topic. It's like Joel Cohen doesn't talk about his personal life at all.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm hearing a rumor that he's going to announce his new era soon.

[David Sims]

He's going to. He's going on new heights on his new girlfriends podcast. Imagine. Yeah, imagine if Frances McDormand had a podcast. Are you kidding me?

[Katie Rich]

So fun.

[David Sims]

Taylor Swift dumped Tyler Kelce, whatever his name is.

[Katie Rich]

Travis.

[David Sims]

Travis Kelsey.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry.

[David Sims]

And you know who he is. I'm not trying to be a sportsball guy over here. And was like, I've got a new boyfriend, Joel Cohen. And she hooked up with Joel Cohen. Yeah, that would be a great.

[Katie Rich]

Would she finally make her movie in that case? Like, she's in Hollywood now.

[Griffin Newman]

Four years ago, everything was pointing towards serious cinephile Taylor Swift. And then we just took a hard left turn to the NFL. Well, she also broken up the McDormand Cohen marriage.

[David Sims]

She also took a hard left turn to doing like a two year tour that was like the most successful music in the history. Sung words, sir.

[Katie Rich]

Slate's just saying, like, hey, Taylor, where's the deal? We signed four years. Whenever you're ready.

[Griffin Newman]

The most successful thing in the history of the economy it was like.

[David Sims]

It was like a country onto itself.

[Griffin Newman]

It was. You look at the stats from the ERAS tour and it's like every city she went to for that week had the kind of economy that is usually reserved for the Olympics.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, yeah. My mom and sister went to Indianapolis and there was like a thing in the airport greeting the people who were there for Taylor Swift. It was bananas.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're like, oh, the one week she was in Indianapolis list.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. It was bigger than the Colts, probably.

[Griffin Newman]

The city went up $2 billion.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Ben, what's up? Griff, this is an ad break. Yeah. And I'm just. I'm. This isn't a humble brag, it's just a fact of the matter. Despite you being on mic. Often times when sponsors buy ad space on this podcast, the big thing they want is personal host endorsement. Endorsement, right. They love it. They get a little bonus Ben on the ad read. But technically that's not what they're looking for. But something very different is happening right now.

[Ben Hosley]

That's true.

[Griffin Newman]

We had a sponsor come in and say, we are looking for the coveted Ben Hosley endorsement. This is laser targeted.

[David Sims]

The product.

[Griffin Newman]

We have copy that asks, is the product a porch movie?

[David Sims]

It certainly is.

[Griffin Newman]

And what is today's episode sponsor?

[David Sims]

Sponsored by the Toxic Adventure.

[Griffin Newman]

The new Toxic Avenger movie is coming.

[Ben Hosley]

To theaters August 29th.

[David Sims]

Macon Blair's remake of Reimagining. Reimagining, whatever. Reboot of the Toxic Avenger.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, David and I have not gonna see it yet, but they sent you a screener link.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I kind of see it.

[Griffin Newman]

We're excited to see it. But Ben, you text us last night. This rules it.

[Ben Hosley]

It honks. Yeah, it's so great.

[David Sims]

Let me read you the cast list here in. In billing order as they asked, which I really appreciate. Peter Dinklage, Jacob Tremblay, Taylor Page with Elijah Wood and Kevin Bacon.

[Griffin Newman]

Tremblay is Toxy's son.

[Ben Hosley]

His stepson.

[Griffin Newman]

His stepson. Okay.

[David Sims]

Wade Goose.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Great name.

[Griffin Newman]

Give us the takes. We haven't heard them yet.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay, you got. Dinklage is fantastic.

[David Sims]

He's talking.

[Ben Hosley]

He plays it with so much, much heart. Yeah, it's such a lovely performance. Bacon is in the pocket too, man.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the bad guy.

[Ben Hosley]

He's the bad guy. There's a lot of him shirtless.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

Looking like David.

[Griffin Newman]

David. Sizzling. Yep. And then Elijah Wood plays like a dang ass freak.

[Ben Hosley]

He certainly does. He's having a lot of fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Tell us some things you liked about the movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay, well, I'm a Jersey guy. I just got to say, the original movie was shot in the town where I went to high school.

[David Sims]

Yes. Yes, that's right. The original film.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[Ben Hosley]

I grew up watching Toxie and Troma movies on porches.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

With my sleazy and sticky friends. It informs so much of my sensibility.

[Griffin Newman]

Your friends like Junkyard Dog and Headbanger.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Making Toxic Crusader jokes.

[Ben Hosley]

And so when I heard that they were doing this new installment, I was really emotionally invested.

[Griffin Newman]

It was in limbo for a while before our friends at Cineverse rescued it and are now released releasing it uncut. But I feel like there have been years of you being very excited at the prospect, but also a little weary. They're playing with fire here. Yeah. It's just.

[Ben Hosley]

It's something that means a lot to me. And they knocked it out of the park.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

It somehow really captured that sensibility, that sense of humor, even just that, like, lo fi, scrappy kind of nature that's inherent in all of the Tron movies. In the original Toxi movies. And they have like updated. And in this way that it was just. I was so pleased with it.

[David Sims]

It's gooey.

[Griffin Newman]

Sufficiently gooey.

[Ben Hosley]

Tons of blood, Tons of goo. Great action. It's really funny. It just.

[David Sims]

It.

[Ben Hosley]

It hits all of the sensibilities that you would want in an updated version.

[David Sims]

Cineverse Last year released Terrifier 3. Unrated.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Big risk for them there. I feel like it's a very, very intense movie.

[Griffin Newman]

And one of the huge hit, more interesting. Yeah. Theatrical box office phenomenons the last five years.

[David Sims]

Want to make that happen again?

[Griffin Newman]

Here.

[David Sims]

Tickets are on sale right now. Advanced sales really matter for movies like this. So if you all were planning on seeing Toxic Avenger, go ahead and buy those tickets. Please go to toxic avenger.com/blank check to get your tickets. Blank check. One word.

[Griffin Newman]

In theaters August 29th.

[David Sims]

Yup.

[Griffin Newman]

And Ben, it just says here in the copy. Wants to call out that Elijah Wood plays a weird little guy who says summon the Nuts. Can you tell us anything about that moment without spoiling it?

[Ben Hosley]

Summon the Nuts is in reference to a psychotic nu metal band.

[Griffin Newman]

Hell yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Who are all also mercenaries.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool.

[Ben Hosley]

And drive a van with a skeleton giving two fingies up on the grill. And that's all I'll say.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

And they are the most dang ass freaks of dang ass freaks.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm excited to see it. And your endorsement, I think carries more weight than anyone else is in the world on this.

[Ben Hosley]

Seriously. Get your tickets now. Go to toxic adventure.com. blank check.

[David Sims]

Do it. Do it.

[Griffin Newman]

You have in the. In the hotel hallway after the wedding where Clooney basically, like monologues to Catherine Zeta Jones of like, aren't you in love with me?

[David Sims]

Right, right. It also happens in Vegas.

[Griffin Newman]

We're the two stars of this movie. Can we, like, get over and admit it? And he kisses her, and she kisses back and then basically has no reaction, walks away. And he does the. You fascinate me.

[David Sims]

Fascinate me.

[Katie Rich]

And this is like six.

[Griffin Newman]

The Billy Buff wedding we've gotten.

[David Sims]

But, like. Right. But it's like he's operating on the premise of she is divorced and about to collect more money than even I have.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And it's a con. I mean, what we're look. Just to spoil the movie. Like, she's conning him. She has arranged it so that he will marry her in Vegas while he's at his convention.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I'm sorry. The kiss in the hallway happens after she brings Billy Bob to him.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The introduction of Billy White.

[Katie Rich]

That's in the. In his office as well. Before Vegas.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's like, let's cut through this shit. Right Post.

[David Sims]

Post the marriage and.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And the Vegas convention of divorce lawyers.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

He.

[Griffin Newman]

She shows up looking like a trillion dollars with the big dog. And he's immediately kind of like goo goo eyed at the idea that she's worth more than he is now.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And this is where the big, like, power shift happens is, is she gets a call that Julia Duffy had died.

[Katie Rich]

Well, that's after they go to that dinner, which is so lovely and sad, where they're both realizing they're not happy with what they've gotten.

[David Sims]

But she's faking it. But she's faking it.

[Katie Rich]

But it's like, that's fine. It feels very sincere. It does.

[David Sims]

Where they're both like, right. There's nothing left for us in the field except for love.

[Griffin Newman]

We've timed the flow.

[David Sims]

We've achieved everything else.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. There's nothing left. Right. And then she gets this call and she's like, my friend. She had all this money, she had all these divorces. She died from, you know, recovery of another.

[David Sims]

The perforated ulcer.

[Katie Rich]

Well, because she. Yeah. She couldn't take the medicine for the ulcer because of plastic surgery.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And she's like. And she didn't have anybody.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And Clooney's like, we have to get married right now. Is the thing. I love that they have not slept together, but it is this kind of thing.

[David Sims]

It's a fairly chaste movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I was gonna say it's like post code movies where they have to sort of skip over the implication that the characters have ever.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Slept together. And I guess in some ways it's a more traditional. You might just say, like, I like your look. Will you please take my hand?

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. They go get married so they can finally kiss on the bed.

[Griffin Newman]

But he's basically. He just makes, like a logical plea to her of, like, shouldn't we just be together? Let's just get this over with. I'll give you the Massy prenup.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I'm so in this for love that I want you to know that I'm not after your.

[David Sims]

Right. They go to the little trap and then they get married.

[Katie Rich]

And she tears the wee Kirk of the heather.

[Griffin Newman]

Incredible.

[David Sims]

She does the tearing up the prenup thing three times in this movie in their marital. And the first two times it's fake. The third time it's real. Yeah, but. Right. I mean, obviously this is all along con. She is taking his money by marrying him. She was never married to Doyle, who's a soap opera actor.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And. And you're right about the Lady Eve thing where it's like. Right. That second act is brief and it's at Vegas. The crowning moment you mentioned in your letterboxd review is his speech.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[David Sims]

His kind of greed is good speech where he's like, love is good.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

This is act three. Second act is Billy Bob, which is really short.

[David Sims]

No, this is act two. Act three, to me is after they get married is Wheezy Joe. And then is Wheezy Joe.

[Griffin Newman]

No, you're right, you're right, you're right. Forgot about the whole wheezy Joe.

[David Sims]

Right. And then so. But then. Right. That's what I'm saying. We leap to. Massie is ruined.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Marilyn has all his money.

[Griffin Newman]

Speaking at the no man convention. He has. What would be your big triumphant third act. The character has seen the light, but that's in the second act monologue saying, like, I think what we're doing is bad. And actually love is important.

[Katie Rich]

And they give the slow clap and do they lift him on shoulders or is that just the implication?

[Griffin Newman]

He's conquering hero.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then he immediately clocks Billy Bob.

[Katie Rich]

On the tv, apparently with Bruce Campbell is there. Which I did not clock. But I don't know. Wikipedia.

[Ben Hosley]

Just to clarify, he signed the prenup because he believes that Billy Bob has given her the money.

[David Sims]

She has his wealth. But she has no wealth at all, right? And instead, like, by ripping up the.

[Ben Hosley]

Prenup, she's in the bad position.

[David Sims]

Now he's.

[Griffin Newman]

And so he gave her the prenup to protect her, to say to her, I love you, not for your money. So he thinks that her ripping up the prenup is her saying, I love you so much, I want you to share my money. And react reality. He's giving her access to his money.

[Ben Hosley]

I got so confused at this point. It took me until the end to actually understand what was going on.

[Griffin Newman]

It's another thing with this movie of like, as I was saying, it is a movie. And most comedies are not structured like this. Like a thriller heist movie where you don't know until the end what's been going on the whole time. I've now seen this like four or five times. And even still, every time while I'm watching it, I'm trying to remember exactly where it's going.

[David Sims]

But in the third act, like, now Clooney is ruined. Marilyn has his money.

[Griffin Newman]

Clooney, she has his house.

[David Sims]

She has his house. Clooney's partner, you know, the old guy, Herb, is like, you have to kill her to protect the reputation of the firm.

[Griffin Newman]

And Clooney's having nightmares about like, this guy who previously had said, like, you're the best of us, you're the future. Now he's having nightmares basically about becoming that guy.

[David Sims]

Hire Wheezy Joe.

[Griffin Newman]

Or I guess the nightmare is what gets him to propose to say, played.

[David Sims]

By the great Irwin Keys, who's just one of those faces made a bajillion.

[Katie Rich]

Fucking born to be in a Cohen movie.

[David Sims]

Big Skullman movies. Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

It's pretty funny to ask him, are.

[Griffin Newman]

You Wheezy Joe while he's wheezing.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Whose bit, of course, is that. He has an inhaler.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

Also he and paladins get a lot of those, like, raising Arizona screams at each other where they just turn and shriek. They're really good at it.

[David Sims]

It's funny. It's. It's. Paul Adelstein went right from this because it was like he was just emerging. Paul Adelstein, right. Like, Prison Break is right around this time, right.

[Griffin Newman]

He does Prison Break and Private Practice. He does like three TV shows in a row.

[David Sims]

And like in Prison Break, he was like a hard boiled asshole. It's like he's such a good goof and I feel like he didn't get to do enough. Goof.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He usually plays in movies like a guy wearing an FBI Jacket who's like. It looks like he went that way.

[Katie Rich]

You watch this and you assume he's like a comedy UCB guy or something.

[David Sims]

Right. He's so fucking funny, it feels like.

[Griffin Newman]

He got caught in a very, very lucrative detour.

[Katie Rich]

I mean, yeah, I mean, I guess.

[Griffin Newman]

TV stuff, network procedural stuff.

[David Sims]

But anyway, he's. But yes, but the, the final gag is they hire Wheezy Joe to kill her. And before he gets to her, they realize she, Edward Herman has died rich because Rex Rexroth has left her his fortune.

[Griffin Newman]

He did not. He never updated his will.

[David Sims]

He dies a heart attack in a train orgy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. He's got a big bed in front of him.

[David Sims]

Movies where it's like, right, he's jumping on a big bed with a bunch of ladies in kind of like fancy.

[Griffin Newman]

Old fashioned underwear.

[David Sims]

In front of a big train going to the station. It's an orgy. But like, this movie's original.

[Griffin Newman]

It felt like the cell on this movie was trying to be. Here you go. The two sexiest adults in Hollywood being sexy.

[Katie Rich]

Well, that's how the Cohen's about sex though, right? Like, is there any movie where there's like real like genuine sex scenes?

[Griffin Newman]

What's the one we were saying? I mean, it's.

[David Sims]

Well, I mean, of course, the hottest sex scene. I hear bills when Buscemi's getting ridden in Fargo.

[Griffin Newman]

The. The parallel. Yes.

[David Sims]

I hear bells. Yeah, yeah. Sex and cone.

[Griffin Newman]

They've had sex in their movies many episodes ahead. But it's. What's so bracing about Driveway Dolls.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, goodness.

[Griffin Newman]

Is you're like, oh, my goodness.

[Katie Rich]

Ethan's been holding us back all this time. Time.

[Griffin Newman]

Cohen movies either cut away, fade out before the sex starts and fade back in the next morning. Right. Like this film does.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Or make it ridiculous.

[Griffin Newman]

Or it's like it's. It's cuckolding or it's kind of like comedic banality. Yeah, it is. Like, this is depressing. Yeah.

[David Sims]

So. So they have to stop wheezy Joe for murdering her because now she's richer than him. So he will now benefit from the divorce. And of course we see Joe accidentally inhales his own pistol and dies in an iconic Coen brothers goofy criminal moment that I feel like is the one.

[Griffin Newman]

Thing everyone gave them.

[David Sims]

Episode.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's also that violence, like the sudden shocking bit of blood that like this movie really lacks. There's no violence in it other than that.

[Griffin Newman]

Really Watch that. I mean, he does. Does like get shot. You see the bullet wound. There is a lack of blood. You feel in a way where it's like, right, this is a PG13 Universal Imagine Entertainment movie.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It costs $60 million.

[Katie Rich]

But it's also. It's like, as surprising as like, Brad pit in the closet and burn after reading or something.

[Griffin Newman]

That's like bloodier.

[Katie Rich]

That's like. And that's heartbreaking.

[Griffin Newman]

That's shocking.

[David Sims]

Well, that's. It's also Brad Pit. So it's so shocking when that happens. Whereas Wheezy Joe. Ah, Wheezy Joe.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of feel like they're teeing him up.

[David Sims]

I mean, Wheezy Joe is. A studio would probably be like, we're introducing this guy like a hundred minutes into a 100 minute movie. Right. Like, he's a big switch.

[Katie Rich]

He wasn't made to be long for this world.

[David Sims]

Like, you could combine him with. With Cedric the Entertainer, maybe.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's like a Final destination setup where you're like, gun and inhaler. Got it. I know how this is ultimately going to end. I'm just waiting to see the joy of how they finally, like, basically. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And the epilogue is. Okay. Time to do the divorce. We're back at the table. We're back with Jankins Jenkins. And they finally are like, maybe we are in love.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Tear up the prenup. You're exposed. Like, it's like the final Tearing up.

[Griffin Newman]

Furious where he's hired someone to murder.

[David Sims]

You.

[Katie Rich]

And then he runs off with the priest case. And Adelphine's like, that's not fair. And chases after.

[Griffin Newman]

But Lady Eve has a similar thing where, like, the guy is so hurt by being conned the first time, he needs to be conned a second time to forgive her. You know, like, they have to go so far beyond the pale.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

To work past their problems.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Well, they've gone through all this effort to con each other, so maybe they are just. They deserve each other in some way.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also like, that's how they know that the other one cares in a.

[David Sims]

Weird way, I guess. Re your point, Rerush. We probably don't need the America's funniest Divorce videos Coda. I mean, I like Gus getting his little star.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. You want. You want him back one more time. But he says, right.

[Griffin Newman]

How did you find the actor? He said, I found this producer.

[David Sims]

I was transible.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But I don't know if we need that. I mean, we could probably buy the specific.

[Katie Rich]

Dated in a way. And like, not that this movie is trying to feel timeless, but you do get to that. And you're like, I don't know if I need. Because I feel like that scene in the Office is so perfect. Like that's the note that you want to end. That's probably the note that like a real Preston Surges movie would end on. As opposed to the color.

[David Sims]

You want tact. Call a tactician.

[Katie Rich]

This is what I was.

[Griffin Newman]

Gonna nail that. I do think you watch a lot of like Lubitsch and Sturgis in particular. And the final beat of the movie will often be some loop closing with a supporting character. They end with like, here's the perfect, like romantic, like, and then William Demares. Positively the same thing. Or the three guys opening the restaurant at the end of Ninochka or stuff. Yeah, it does feel very classical to be like, yeah, we don't put game pieces on the board unless they will ultimately get their final pay.

[Katie Rich]

Well, and there's a bit about Jeffrey Rush where it's like, that show will be yours someday. So like to have Catherine City Jones has now ownership of the game show. Like, yeah. I don't really know how that's a transfer to property, but it does feel like a callback to that too.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And the idea that she has something of her own that's now his and whatever.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, well, it's the thing that they do together. Right. Does he say like, what are we going to do now? And she's like, I have an idea. And then it's such a TV show.

[Griffin Newman]

It's interesting to. JJ have anything more about the budget? I mean, I do think a lot of this was sunk development costs.

[David Sims]

But also JJ was fired, of course, because you didn't sign the Massey prenup.

[Griffin Newman]

We're going to nail.

[David Sims]

We are going to nail. No, I mean the budget is not really. No. There was just so little reporting on this movie because it was kind of there and gone.

[Griffin Newman]

Clooney has always said that he thinks there are less than five times in his career where he actually got his. His full quote. Right. Because he is a guy who likes to be like, I wanted to do the.

[David Sims]

He just didn't do a lot of paychecks.

[Griffin Newman]

I want to do the Descendants. I'll do deferred salary. You know, I feel like this is one of the cases where he probably got full quote.

[David Sims]

Maybe he did. And maybe like, I think this is.

[Griffin Newman]

Probably more than the Cohen's were ever paid up front to direct a movie. I'm guessing.

[Katie Rich]

So everyone just got paid a lot. That's my thing.

[Griffin Newman]

And I'm like bankable.

[Katie Rich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Craft services was much better on this film than it was in the Coen brothers film.

[Katie Rich]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, they talk about how. How they prep so meticulously to be able to keep cost down, to have worked everything out so far in advance that they don't have to go searching on the day.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And I just think that's them working around a lot of the second there's a certain price tag on your head, people start asking questions, and they start breathing down your neck, and there's pressure. Even if your people who are able to retain final cut in a movie like this, they just don't want that pressure on them. Right. And this is just. I think everyone was more comfortable. People probably had better trailers. I think fucking.

[Katie Rich]

They probably stayed in a great hotel in Vegas.

[Griffin Newman]

Grazer and Ron Howard both were probably paid, like, a million dollars to produce this, even though Ethan was the main producer. You know, like, I think this is just a movie where everyone got their full salary, where everyone was treated nicely. It doesn't feel like they made it any differently. But you do watch this, and you're like, holy shit. Burn after reading costs $20 million.

[Katie Rich]

It's crazy that True Grit is cheaper than this.

[Griffin Newman]

True grit's like 40 or 50. You know, like, they're just so good at just, like, don't waste money on things that aren't on screen. And also, big stars want to work with them, and they will ultimately benefit when the movie is profitable, which almost all other movies are because the bar is so low.

[Katie Rich]

You think this one's eventually made its money back?

[Griffin Newman]

It made 80 worldwide. Wow.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Let me look up the numbers. I do think 30 domestic.

[Griffin Newman]

50.

[David Sims]

Seth Rogen on the show recently to discuss the big Lebowski. The episode's already aired, and he put it correctly, which it made 120 worldwide. It made.

[Griffin Newman]

Made 120 worldwide. So it made 80 overseas. So that.

[David Sims]

Movie stars, man. And it's like. But as he said, as he put it, and he's right, he's like, at this time, every movie made $40 million on DVD, even bad ones. Maybe they made more. Everything would just make so much money.

[Griffin Newman]

On DVD and especially comedies.

[David Sims]

Anyway, the film came out October. October 10th.

[Griffin Newman]

But I do think. I do think it spooks them a little bit. It is weird. Even though no one's losing their shirt on it, I think it's perceived as a miss.

[David Sims]

I'm sure it spooked them. As much as the Cohen are spookable, I don't know how much they. They do seem quite self Assured, obviously.

[Griffin Newman]

And yet they followed up, obviously. Similar moves. It's another movie they were originally just hired to write that they decide to take over and direct with a huge movie star.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's a studio project that's being pushed as a conventional mainstream comedy, or at least trying to sell it that way.

[Katie Rich]

You've already recorded Lady Killer's episode. And I. I did not. I've seen it once.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, I mean, I. I will. I will spoil here. I just contend that they have never made a movie with a failing grade. I'd say that's the one that's on the cusp. I'm like, I give it like a C plus, B minus.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Ben, did you like Intolerable. But cruelty, I haven't realized. I haven't really gotten the. And I was getting this sense. Getting this sense.

[Griffin Newman]

You had a hard time following.

[Ben Hosley]

I laughed at some moments. I found the characters quite despicable.

[Griffin Newman]

They are.

[Ben Hosley]

In a way, that made it hard for me to want to follow them along.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a very acidic movie with no one to root for.

[Katie Rich]

Yep. But then it makes you believe in love at the end anyway.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. And there's something about the crassness. And I understand. It's arch.

[David Sims]

It's arch. Arch as hell.

[Ben Hosley]

It just then.

[David Sims]

You're a sincere fella.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. I struggled with it a little bit. Like, I will say I had to pause at one point because I got so frustrated.

[David Sims]

Like the.

[Ben Hosley]

The moment when Clooney. They get married. I. I just like, I. I gotta walk away from this. I'm so annoyed.

[David Sims]

I also.

[Griffin Newman]

I also think so much of the movie directing the audience that you kind of need to see it twice to have seen it once. Which is another thing of, like, people seeing in theaters at the time and never revisiting it.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And I bet that that's a symptom of me always, you know, knowing that if I were put in this situation that it would work out.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course.

[Ben Hosley]

And so seeing him up so Jones.

[Katie Rich]

Would not pull one over on you.

[David Sims]

I gotta get out of here.

[Griffin Newman]

But even deal with this, Ben, to David's point of view, being a sincere fella and someone who loves, loves love.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Unlike Bag of Money movies. I think you can't even place yourself in the character's heads in this.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. You don't play around with that Heinz, the Baron Cross.

[David Sims]

Funnest.

[Griffin Newman]

They are engaging in intolerable cruelty towards each other, which you don't with number one.

[Katie Rich]

Hang on, hang on. Can I say one more thing about the tone of this. I know, David. I also have to leave, but it's like, I feel like if you have.

[David Sims]

To leave, that's why.

[Katie Rich]

If this had come out with Burn After Reading, like Post no Country Entry, put those two movies together, I think they go really hand in hand. But I do think Burn After Readings, that tone directed at DC as opposed to Divorce Lawyers in Love, is a little bit better aimed. It makes more sense to be cynical.

[Griffin Newman]

About that than I vastly prefer this movie.

[Katie Rich]

Interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

David dislikes Burn, although we will see how the rewatch goes.

[David Sims]

We will. It's not like I think Burn is a bad movie. It's well made. It's got a lot of great stuff. But that is the one time where I kind of had the Ben reaction. And on every rewatch, I have the Ben and I'm like, too mean. I kind of hate everybody. I'm. I, you know, feels like an exercise.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I agree with you, Katie. And as I love to remind people, Burn After Reading is weirdly their third highest grossing film.

[David Sims]

You love to remind people of that, but I don't care about that.

[Griffin Newman]

But I'm just saying it did cross over in a way that I. To Katie's point.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I do think it was more palatable. Like, the acidity in that movie is like, we all hate these guys. This movie is based around people.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Who are kind of of like, annoying and arrogant, but we can all find common enemies in them.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. And you want.

[Griffin Newman]

Because they're the people control the level.

[Katie Rich]

Of power and like. Yeah. And also just like the post no country thing, people were like, ready to see it on its level as opposed to this period where it was a little bit weird.

[David Sims]

It wasn't just Clooney. It was Clooney and Pit.

[Griffin Newman]

But I think that movie has targets that are acceptable.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Also something to like grimy scumbags versus these are like rich, awful people.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you haven't seen Burn After Reading yet.

[David Sims]

Rich People.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay, I have, but I just think that movie has a really goofy tone. I just remember enjoying it.

[Griffin Newman]

But they are rich people. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I like this kind of because it's like the rich people aren't happy even when they're not being mean. You know, it's. It. It gets it.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what I like.

[David Sims]

October 10, 2003. A bad time to release this movie, in my opinion. As I already said, it's opening number four at the box office to $12.5 million, which is just straight up bad for your George Clooney PG13 Rom com. I'm like, come on now. Number one at the box office making $22 million. So again, I don't know why they opened this against. This is an oturus masterpiece that is.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it Kill Bill?

[David Sims]

It's Kill Bill, Volume 1, which is like one of the greatest experiences I ever had in a movie theater.

[Griffin Newman]

It's another reason I think I didn't see this in theaters was I was Kill Bill three times.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, like I was just.

[Katie Rich]

All the Cohen's people you were talking about who didn't want to see it, they were busy.

[Griffin Newman]

It just felt triumphant. The guy's back and this thing is like a fuck.

[David Sims]

What kind of crazy, you know, studio is like, yeah, let's open the new Cohen's against the new Tarantino. Anyway, so that's number one. Number two is, I would call a big sleeper hit of the season.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

It was number one last week. It's going to make $81 million. It's making 15 million in its second week. It had very good legs.

[Griffin Newman]

So was it September, 2003?

[David Sims]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Late September. Like a charming comedy with a movie star. It's kind of his movie star breakout.

[Griffin Newman]

It's kind of his movie star breakout. And I was thinking it was a reaper. And you think it's.

[David Sims]

It's a great movie. It is a. I think, at this point, a canonical classic.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a canonical classic. 2003, September.

[David Sims]

It's his breakout kind of. I mean, he's already a big star. I get. Or he's. He's becoming a big star star right now. He's. He's been a big kind of supporting actor guy for a few years.

[Griffin Newman]

And now Pacifier doesn't come out until 2004.

[David Sims]

Not talking about the Pacifier.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a big star, so it has to be Vin Diesel. What would you say is the main genre of this star?

[David Sims]

Comedy. Comedy star.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a big comedy star.

[Katie Rich]

Is it Will Ferrell?

[Griffin Newman]

Nope.

[Katie Rich]

It's.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Because Elf is a little later, same year, Christmas time. Or it's not a Stiller and it's not Owen Wilson. It's not a Vince Vaughn. And it's School of Rock.

[David Sims]

It is School of Rock, the wonderful Richard Linklater movie. Which. Right. It's that thing of like, it's a mainstream family comedy that's made by Richard Linklater and feels like it was made by him.

[Griffin Newman]

It is what I think everyone hoped intolerable cruelty would be.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And there's this feeling, actual crossover appeal.

[David Sims]

Beyond just right art Movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Jim Jacks, who our buddy Kevin Smith talked about a lot on the podcast, was the guy who originally got the Intolerable Cruelty script and set it up at Universal in the early 90s. And his big thing was find these Sundance guys who have. You can see the gem of a commercial movie within them and protect them enough to let them make it their way. And that was like Dazed and Confused. And at the time, it was like, one of these days, Linklater is going to figure out how to make a movie that cracks the mainstream.

[Katie Rich]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

And there was that similar feeling with the car. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number three at the box office new this week is the movie that I'm sure an angry phone call or two were made about not even opening above this.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Right. You know, it's like, I'm sure some agents got chewed out, some assistants got yelled at. It's a family comedy.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a family comedy.

[David Sims]

It's heavy on Animal.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it Good Boy?

[David Sims]

It is the film Good Boy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. What is that?

[David Sims]

Which stars dogs.

[Griffin Newman]

I would say it's a Jim Henson production, ostensibly.

[David Sims]

I think Molly Shannon is first billed in this one. Is the kid actor.

[Griffin Newman]

But I think you're right. Molly Shannon's the mom. And it's like, dogs. Oh, Matthew Broderick is an alien. I'm an alien dog. Matthew Broderick's an alien.

[Katie Rich]

So the dogs. The dogs talk.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Britney Murphy, Carl Reiner.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. These are all the dogs.

[Katie Rich]

Sounds like people.

[David Sims]

Cheech Marin. Cheech Marin doing.

[Griffin Newman]

But I think it's basically like Dogs are from Mars.

[David Sims]

I mean, this is one of those movies that has, like, been banned from existence by, like, congressional act.

[Griffin Newman]

I have never heard of Intolerable Cruelty opening below Good Boy.

[David Sims]

Number five of the Box.

[Griffin Newman]

Molly Sham was Top Build, But Top Build is a dog. Like, it was a movie that was so wrong.

[David Sims]

It's like eight dogs. Like, Ninth Build.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And they're beating two of the biggest movie stars of the moment.

[David Sims]

Number nine of the box. Number five. The box office is a movie star star thriller.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I would say it is a lesser entry in his oeuvre. Although it is a. He's working with a director he made a great movie with before.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it a Fuqua?

[David Sims]

No. Okay. I was thinking.

[Griffin Newman]

So it is a Denzel. It's a Tony Scott.

[David Sims]

Denzel Washington. Nope, not Tony Scott. We only worked with this guy twice.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

He's a great filmmaker. I believe he's directed you, Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, this is our out of Time.

[David Sims]

It is out of Time. Directed by who?

[Griffin Newman]

Carl Franklin.

[David Sims]

The Great. Carl Franklin, who of course made one false move in Devil in a Blue Dress, which are amazing. And of course, one thing which is solid.

[Griffin Newman]

One episode of Vinyl.

[David Sims]

One episode of Vinyl, which I assume was good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. What I liked about him, he whispered all his direction.

[David Sims]

That's cool.

[Katie Rich]

Is that. Is that. Is that a good vibe?

[Griffin Newman]

It just felt very intimate. Like he'd go up to someone and just really hand on shoulder. I don't want to announce things in front of everybody. And given the note to just you.

[David Sims]

Right, right. It's a Denzel mode that I love, which is Denzel as a sloppy up mess. Right. Like, rather than Denzel as the cool professional or whatever. Like, it is a. It is a sweaty Miami. Or it's a Florida Keys thriller about, like, a cop who's, like, he's the chief of police, but, like, scandals are piling up. Eva Mendes is there.

[Katie Rich]

My story about this movie is that.

[David Sims]

Dean Cain, a great patriot.

[Katie Rich]

I texted you about this movie because I was at a trip trampoline park that was playing, I guess, a den. It was. Had TNT on, and I saw the final. I was like, what is this movie where Denzel is, like, sweaty and kind of a bad guy and holding a gun? And immediately after that, they started playing Malcolm X, which was just playing in the background at a trampoline park, which was quite a sight.

[David Sims]

I.

[Griffin Newman]

Do Denzel own a trampoline park?

[Katie Rich]

Does he own urban air? He's probably making a lot of money off of it.

[David Sims]

It's not an amazing movie, but it's all right. That's number five of the box office. Number six of the box office. New this week is House of Of the Dead, the video game adaptation that Clooney did have the temerity to beat. That one Uwe bowl.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the beginning of the Uwe Boll video game dynasty.

[David Sims]

You've also got the rundown, the early Dwayne Johnson action. Pretty good movie in my Peter Berg movie, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's.

[David Sims]

If it's, like, fun.

[Griffin Newman]

It feels like there's an alternate history where you're like, if that movie was a bigger hit at the time, the entire Dwayne Johnson trajectory would have been very different.

[David Sims]

I don't think the interview's gone up here, but I interviewed Benny safdie for smashing ma and he calls him D.J.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

And that was very interesting. Oh, is that. Is that how we refer to him? Because I don't. I still don't really know, you know, like, when I'm interviewing, like. So what did Dwayne do? What did Rock do? What are we. What are we calling him? And he calls him DJ Number eight at the box office. Under the Tuscan sun. Masterpiece. C plus Masterpiece.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number nine, Secondhand Lions. Never seen that one. That's the Haley Joel post.

[Griffin Newman]

Michael Caine, Robert Duvall.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right. What addled studio. I was like, Iron Shine and Duvall.

[Katie Rich]

I mean, Kane and Osmond had Oscar heat.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And then number 10, it's been out for five weeks.

[Griffin Newman]

The idea that that's a burying the hatchet movie between Kane and Haley Joel and their contentious must be squad is.

[David Sims]

There being like, it's fine. I got mine for tender mercies.

[Griffin Newman]

Was it Haley, you'll win this time. Second hand alliance.

[David Sims]

And Kane's like, oh, I. I won't campaign. You can campaign for this.

[Griffin Newman]

The lions are yours. What the. I've never had a good cane, and that was somehow the worst cane I've ever mean.

[Katie Rich]

Popped out there. That was.

[David Sims]

You grow up in Britain. Everyone has yours. The loins are yours. I can't. I lost it. Number 10 is lost in Translation, which people forget came out in, like, in August. August, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, it was in early September.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Katie Rich]

Did. Did it go to Venice and then straight into theaters or something?

[Griffin Newman]

I think so. But it, like, played for five months.

[David Sims]

Are you high on crack? All right, we're going to complete the episode with Ben Griffin. You would have gotten a text from Ben. Ben, I guess, just started hitting up ebay because he didn't care for the movie. So he's just. He's just typing. Well, no, I looked up if there's any merch.

[Griffin Newman]

He looked up merch Spotlight instead of.

[David Sims]

Ebay link for $125 or our best offer, perhaps. Yeah. You can buy a shirt. Maybe the most wrinkled shirt. I was gonna say wrinkled shirt worn by Cedric the Entertainer.

[Katie Rich]

Wow.

[David Sims]

With studio coa. So it's authentic. It's just funny because the picture of the shirt now.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Is so wrinkled.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But then the picture of him wearing it, you're like, this shirt was very iron.

[Katie Rich]

It was new and new in 2003. It's also.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the shape of the shirt, I will say is not making a ton of sense to me. It almost looks like it's like a midriff cut.

[David Sims]

It is. Does look short, but maybe it's a proportion.

[Griffin Newman]

And I'm like, are the sleeves tiny or are they hidden?

[Katie Rich]

Are you guys tempted to buy? I mean, I'm looking around this office with all the stuff here, and I cannot tell how much of it is. You have bought on ebay just like this in a recording.

[Griffin Newman]

Every day we come in here and David goes, I wish there was more stuff. He goes, griffin, please buy more.

[David Sims]

It's interesting.

[Ben Hosley]

Interesting that you've. You've said we all this negative pulled.

[Katie Rich]

Up that ebay link. You're complicit in all.

[David Sims]

Yes, true.

[Griffin Newman]

He is. There's no option for best offer. I would make a best offer.

[Ben Hosley]

We still haven't received our like device.

[Griffin Newman]

That turns complicated delivery process water or air into water text minutes to figure out.

[Katie Rich]

I feel like I'm supposed to like bring a trinket. Like I have to have an offering here.

[Griffin Newman]

But yeah, like this.

[David Sims]

I mean we're done because we have to do Tank Girl and Katie has to go see if I had legs.

[Katie Rich]

I'd kick you the the movie for for moms who are separated from their children as I am right now and may well it make me want never want to go home. We'll see.

[Griffin Newman]

Possibly I might. I might give you some little Avatar stories to bring back to the boys. Oh, be ready.

[Ben Hosley]

I think this is going to be worth it. I very quickly I looked up alternate titles for the foreign markets. Love is expensive in Argentina and Brazil.

[Katie Rich]

That's pretty good.

[Ben Hosley]

Japan Divorce show.

[Griffin Newman]

Good.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

My favorite, Austria is an parentheses. I am close parentheses. Possible case.

[Katie Rich]

I don't get it.

[David Sims]

An impossible. I don't know.

[Ben Hosley]

And possible and impossible.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, okay.

[Katie Rich]

It's got layers.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I think David's giving me kind of.

[David Sims]

A intolerable cruelty is one of the. It sounds like the title of a USA show about to say was a good title. It's okay.

[Katie Rich]

It's before suits existed and Royal Pains.

[Griffin Newman]

Or whatever else in 2003. It sounds like necessary roughness.

[David Sims]

There you go.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's like it's fine. You'd believe that there's like a. A 10 star Hepburn Tracy movie called Intellect or.

[David Sims]

Or. Or Rock Hudson movie. Yeah, it's like yes, yes, 100%.

[Griffin Newman]

That is true. Best.

[Katie Rich]

So happy to be back too long. What a thrill. I got to get back to New York more. You did give me the finger guns.

[David Sims]

This episode came out last year. I think we may have recorded.

[Katie Rich]

That's true. We recorded as I said. When. Before we started recording. It was right before I started the terrible, endless process of being laid off. So I was like, I have a job that I like. And then by the time it came out, everything was insane. But it all worked out.

[Griffin Newman]

It all worked out because I have.

[Katie Rich]

A new job that I really like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. People should follow everything you're doing on the ankler.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. I'm going to promote because Prestige Junkie, I've got the podcast that's free to everybody, but we have a paid tier now where you can get extra stuff. Chris Rose and I are talking about award season. Some real new nerdy nonsense.

[Griffin Newman]

So great takes. You and Chris Rosen, you're interviewing great people.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, it's been fun.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like you and David are united in the idea that Sandler is going to win the Oscar this year.

[David Sims]

I'm at least floating it. I'm not like, locking.

[Katie Rich]

I mean, my. My super hot take is that Happy Gilmore too? And how well that did and how many people are in it. A really good. Like, that's good. That's pushing them forward.

[Griffin Newman]

Listen to this episode.

[Katie Rich]

They're both Netflix movies. Like, I think it's all good.

[Griffin Newman]

Take that. It is. It is emblematic of a level of love.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And just like, acceptance in, like, you are part of the firmament.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. That movie is so cheerful and, like, heartfelt in this way that it just makes you more affectionate toward Adam Sandler, even if you don't like it that much.

[Griffin Newman]

And that people Forget that for 20 years, the industry would be like, oh, we hate our most successful movie star. They would throw him under the bus at every opportunity they got and be like, we're ashamed that he's our most consistent.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. He keeps making all this money for.

[Griffin Newman]

Us, and now I feel like he's just accepted as, like, part of Mount Rushmore.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. And got me. Speaking of Clooney, like, I'm so ready for. I guess by the time this airs, it will have premiered at Venice, so the world will know if they got the goods. I'm ready.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Thank you for being here.

[Katie Rich]

Thanks for having me.

[Griffin Newman]

David. Yes. Did you order our lunch?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I can't wait.

[David Sims]

Great. I'm excited to eat it. We gotta watch Tanker right away because I have to go to physical therapy.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Thank you all for listening. Please remember, hurts to rate, review and subscribe. Everything in my body hurts. It's not a competition. I wasn't trying to one off.

[David Sims]

I understand that. It's just one of those things where my shoulders hurt for three months and I'm like, I guess I got to deal with this now because I'm old. Like, it's just won't stop hurting.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I know why. It's because the babies. But, like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's a good call. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I hold that.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. They weigh. They weigh pounds. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. When are they going to start standing? Soon.

[David Sims]

Standing. Oh, oh, standing. Whatever. Sorry, last name? Bebop. One of the standing. I don't know. We have to be. We have to do Tank Girl.

[Griffin Newman]

Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Subscribe. Tune in next week for the Lady Killers we can all agree is their worst film. Even though I will mount a half hearted offensive.

[David Sims]

Right. I will. I would struggle with it's not their worst film from somebody. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But I was just like, you could rank in cruelty as their second worst and I wouldn't even argue with that because you're only putting masterpieces ahead of.

[Katie Rich]

That's the thing is I would defend this movie a lot but still be like, what am I going to put below it other than Lady Killers?

[Griffin Newman]

It's bottom five for me. We'll see where.

[David Sims]

Probably top of the bottom five for me too.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, yeah. You're the greatest defender and you're like.

[David Sims]

Top of the bottom five. They've made a lot of good movies.

[Griffin Newman]

They made a lot of perfect films and we'll continue to talk about them. And as always, we're going to nail your asses. We're going to nail every one of your asses.

[Katie Rich]

Every person out there.

[Ben Hosley]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithee, research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss and and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on Social Blank checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.