Look Who's Talking Too with Max Minghella

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David: Episode Summary Title: Look Who's Talking Too with Max Minghella
Release Date: May 25, 2025
Host/Authors: Griffin Newman and David Sims
Guest: Max Minghella
Producer: Ben Hosley

---

Introduction to "Look Who's Talking Too"

[00:22]
Griffin Newman and David Sims dive into the sequel of the iconic 1989 film "Look Who's Talking," titled "Look Who's Talking Too." They set the stage by highlighting the challenges faced in producing sequels, especially when sequels are rushed or lack the original's charm.

Production Background and Legal Entanglements

[02:06]
The hosts discuss the convoluted production history of "Look Who's Talking Too." Amy Heckerling, the original director, was legally compelled to create the sequel following a $20 million lawsuit. This lawsuit stemmed from a couple who claimed that "Look Who's Talking" plagiarized their short film idea about a hyper-intelligent talking baby. The legal pressure forced Heckerling into making the sequel, which significantly affected her creative input and personal life, leading to her divorce from fellow filmmaker Harold Ramis.

Notable Quote:

David Sims [02:23]: "The entire life cycle of Look Who's Talking, which spawned three movies and two seasons of television, is compressed within four years."

Analyzing "Look Who's Talking Too"

Plot and Character Dynamics

[04:39]
Griffin and David examine the film's narrative, noting its departure from the first movie's balance between adult themes and the whimsical element of a talking baby. They critique how the sequel delves deeper into marital issues without maintaining the original's charm.

Notable Quote:

Max Minghella [19:14]: "I want to finish my point."

Filmmaking and Aesthetic Choices

[26:19]
The discussion shifts to the technical aspects of the film, particularly the use of Automated Dialog Replacement (ADR). They highlight inconsistencies and how ADR was overused, leading to a disjointed viewing experience.

Notable Quote:

Griffin Newman [26:19]: "There are moments of filmmaking on that. There was these little things you go like, oh, yeah, of course, it's Amy Heckerling. It's not made by nobody."

Character Portrayals and Performances

[30:02]
Max Minghella provides insight into the portrayal of Elias Codius, Kirstie Alley's brother, emphasizing his erratic behavior and lack of nuanced character development. The hosts lament the missed opportunities in character depth, especially concerning Eli's antagonistic role.

Notable Quote:

Max Minghella [30:02]: "He's not an ambiguous character. The audience is not supposed to look at this hat. So there's a little bit of that going on."

Thematic Exploration and Sequel Critique

[42:05]
David delves into the film's thematic inconsistencies, comparing it to other sequels that either successfully built upon the original or failed due to poor storytelling. They critique how "Look Who's Talking Too" tries to juggle multiple plotlines without cohesive development.

Notable Quote:

David Sims [42:05]: "She says she was legally forced to make this movie. She did not want to do it. And the story's done."

Audience Reception and Legacy

[75:01]
The hosts reflect on the film's reception over the years, noting its decline in cultural relevance despite its initial success. They discuss how sequels often suffer from not capturing the essence of the original, leading to diminished returns both critically and financially.

Potential Reboots and Future Discussions

[109:31]
Towards the end, they brainstorm ideas for potential reboots, including a prequel titled "Looketh Who Talketh Now," set in the Renaissance. This speculative discussion highlights their desire to reimagine the franchise with fresh perspectives while acknowledging the challenges inherent in reviving beloved classics.

Notable Quote:

Ben Hosley [109:35]: "It's the same. Basically, redo this. The first movie in the Renaissance time."

Conclusion

[158:56]
Griffin, David, and Max wrap up the episode by teasing future discussions and expressing their continued interest in exploring film sequels and reboots. They highlight the enduring fascination with "Look Who's Talking" despite its mixed legacy.

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Key Takeaways:

• Legal Pressures: The sequel was heavily influenced by legal battles, limiting creative freedom and impacting personal lives of those involved.
• Narrative Flaws: "Look Who's Talking Too" struggles with maintaining the original's charm, offering a disjointed plot with overused ADR.
• Character Development: Characters, especially antagonists, lack depth, making the sequel less engaging.
• Legacy Impact: The film's cultural legacy has waned, illustrating the challenges of producing successful sequels.
• Reboot Possibilities: Ideas like "Looketh Who Talketh Now" showcase the hosts' interest in reimagining the franchise creatively.

Notable Quotes:

• David Sims [02:23]: "The entire life cycle of Look Who's Talking, which spawned three movies and two seasons of television, is compressed within four years."
• Griffin Newman [26:19]: "There are moments of filmmaking on that. There was these little things you go like, oh, yeah, of course, it's Amy Heckerling. It's not made by nobody."
• David Sims [42:05]: "She says she was legally forced to make this movie. She did not want to do it. And the story's done."
• Ben Hosley [109:35]: "It's the same. Basically, redo this. The first movie in the Renaissance time."

---

For more in-depth analyses and exclusive content, listeners are encouraged to join the Blank Check Patreon and follow the podcast on social media at checkpod.com.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David.

[David Sims]

Don't know what to say or to expect.

[Max Manghella]

All you need to know is that.

[Griffin Newman]

The name of the shadow is Blackjack.

[David Sims]

Mikey's back and about to face his greatest challenge, his new podcast.

[Max Manghella]

That's the tagline.

[David Sims]

That's the tagline.

[Max Manghella]

It's pretty bad.

[David Sims]

You said I should do it.

[Max Manghella]

No, I said it's kind of what you think it would be. But, I mean, it's fun. It's fine.

[David Sims]

The title is look who's Talking To. It's kind of sells itself.

[Max Manghella]

Two is underlined, just in case you didn't realize they've changed the title and.

[David Sims]

You got two babies chewing on the title.

[Max Manghella]

You've seen the. You've seen the poster.

[David Sims]

You, of course, have seen the. You have the poster tattooed on your chest, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Is on my back. Does the first poster have the headphones or.

[Max Manghella]

The first poster has only the sunglasses.

[David Sims]

Only the sunglasses. And it's true. Baby, no hair. Right. Hairless child. An infant. A hairless infant. Infant.

[Max Manghella]

And the headphones are gone for now.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

But the whole family's now above the title, and the dogs are underneath it.

[Max Manghella]

Travolta and Ally have joined.

[David Sims]

That's a spoiler for third.

[Max Manghella]

The Wilson esque sort of, you know, peeking over the fence vibe. Yes, they're sort of peeking over the fence.

[David Sims]

Were the look who's Talking posters the ultimate inspiration for Wilson in Home Improvement? In Home Improvement, did Tim Allen go in and say, and here's my big. Here's my closer. Imagine a character who's perpetually in a state of look who's Talking poster.

[Max Manghella]

The show starts in 91.

[David Sims]

The show starts in 91. Two of them are already out.

[Max Manghella]

That's pretty circumstantial, but I'm willing to say that, yes, Home Improvement is ripping off look who's Talking.

[Griffin Newman]

Same year as Baby Talk. Well, TV spin off.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Of the look who's still we talk.

[David Sims]

About in the last episode. And it's going to branch into far more competition. This episode, same issue, Same.

[Max Manghella]

Both ABC network write. Home improvements. Abc, right.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that.

[Max Manghella]

The.

[David Sims]

That. The entire life cycle of look who's Talking, which spawned three movies and two seasons of television, is compressed within four years. On top of that, it also spawns a $20 million lawsuit, a divorce, a dissolution of a marriage. Like I just.

[Max Manghella]

Secret Chow.

[David Sims]

I was tipping this off right before we started recording, but I started going down the rabbit hole because J.J. birch, our researcher, who I must say is fired because I watched this movie this film is deranged. I'm like, I need a lot more answers than I have. He. He submits to us a slim volume. So I start going to the hyperlinks to look for more answers. And the more, the deeper I dug, the less answers I got, the more questions that were raised. And I was like in a spiral last night, akin to Robert Graysmith and Zodiac. I was starting to lose my mind.

[Max Manghella]

What answer do you want?

[David Sims]

So many.

[Griffin Newman]

Me too. I was with you. I really went on a hunt on this fucking. I couldn't find anything because the movie raises a lot of questions. It's sort of like watching an mri.

[David Sims]

Yes. Thank you. And the more data you have, the more you need.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally. I mean, my first headline question is, what's going on with Mikey's mouth movements?

[Max Manghella]

Okay, great question.

[David Sims]

The first question is, who is talking?

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

Who is talking?

[Max Manghella]

What is being heard?

[David Sims]

Because last time it was pretty easy to zone in on that. Just one. This time we got two. Three if you count the toilet four.

[Max Manghella]

Mel Brooks, if you count the toilet four. Look, I watched this movie last night.

[David Sims]

You gave it a very rude one and a half stars on letterbox.

[Max Manghella]

I thought that was very generous of me. The first thing I did, it's, you know, spring break, all the children are home.

[David Sims]

Congrats, Luke. Who's talking in your household?

[Max Manghella]

Exactly. And I look at, well, what's the running. I gotta watch this thing. What's the running time? 82 minutes. Mwah.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

As I correctly predicted, movie actually ends at 75 minutes. The credits are not short. Yes, lovely and short.

[David Sims]

And then it's about a buck 15 soaking wet.

[Max Manghella]

And I'm like, is this the first time we have discussed a basically kind of irrelevant movie? Like, you know, all your questions aside.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Since like, I was just sort of thinking it was like Spielberg, David lynch, we've been like tackling all these things where, like, even when it's a minor work.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Like an always or whatever. You're still like, I want to pay attention. This is a great filmmaker. I'm not saying Amy Heckerling isn't, but I don't think anyone was really checked in for this one.

[David Sims]

Well, this is. I'm going to push back.

[Max Manghella]

Dunstan was not around.

[David Sims]

This is what I find fascinating about this movie is it almost feels like experimental, non narrative, hard.

[Max Manghella]

That's one way to talk about a bad movie. Another way is that no one bothered to write a script for a sequel. That just kind of had to happen right away.

[David Sims]

Here's what I'm Gonna push back on. I think it's the opposite problem, which is they demanded a sequel right away. They had no overriding idea outside of we promised the sister at the end of the first movie. Right. That's the one thing they have to deliver.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, they, they, they, they tease that.

[Griffin Newman]

They promise Joan Rivers will be back.

[David Sims]

Right. And then of course she's not, she's not back. But they have promised some shrill pitched comedian will have zingers out of a baby's mouth. I think this movie has like 8 trillion ideas in a sort of like showing up late for a presentation with like a bunch of loose paperwork notes scribbled like furiously being like, okay, what about this? Like pinning it to the board. Like, this movie keeps setting up threads and ideas that it doesn't really know how to pay off.

[Griffin Newman]

I was quite happy when you guys said that, you know, because I originally was maybe going to do the first movie and then we had landed on this one and I was happy that we're doing this one because I am fascinated fundamentally with sequels.

[David Sims]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

Especially in this kind of period of time.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And there's something about what. I mean, David, you hit the nail on the head. The movie is such a product of a rushed.

[Max Manghella]

Yes, production has to happen now.

[Griffin Newman]

It just has to happen right fucking now.

[Max Manghella]

You know, the little energy of a surprise hit, it's going to dissipate. We like, we cannot wait.

[David Sims]

And we teed this up a little bit in the last episode. But to your point, David, even more so. I think this is the first time we've covered one of these. A phenomenon we've talked about a lot, which is specifically in the 80s and 90s, if you had a comedy hit immediately, it's like, hey, gun to your head. You have to make a sequel and it needs to be out the next calendar year. Like comedy sequels were made on a Saw franchise schedule of like this is annual.

[Max Manghella]

Sure.

[David Sims]

And you, you pump them out until the. It runs dry.

[Griffin Newman]

What was the distance between. Because the other movie I was thinking about a lot. Well, two movies I thought about a lot watching this was Drop Dead Fred.

[Max Manghella]

Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And Three Men and a Little Lady.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Which I have seen, I am proud to say that I have seen.

[Griffin Newman]

I've also. Congratulations. And I recall being an equally sort of catastrophic.

[Max Manghella]

It's the exact same problem where it's like the, this has to be a baby. The minute it's not a baby, we have a huge issue.

[David Sims]

No, there was a three year gap on that between three men and little Lady. They had to let her grow up.

[Griffin Newman]

I think this is a more interesting movie as a result of its Russian connection.

[Max Manghella]

Now, Three Men and a Little lady is directed by Ernie Ardolino, who I.

[David Sims]

Consider a minor auteur who did Dirty Dancing. Right.

[Max Manghella]

Directed Dirty Dancing, which is a wonderful film. He won an Oscar for the documentary. He makes me feel like dancing. He was a great, you know, sort of gay filmmaker in the 80s. Like, big fan of his. He made Sister act, which is great. Made Three Men, a Little lady, which is a disaster. He made something called Chances Are with Cybill Shepard and Robert Downey Jr.

[Ben Hosley]

Interesting movie.

[Max Manghella]

Never heard of that. And then he made the really weird Nutcracker movie with Macaulay Culkin, which I think kind of rocks. And then he died of aids.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

Fascinating career. Anyway, not important to. Look who said we haven't even introduced the podcast.

[David Sims]

We haven't. Look this blank. Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[Max Manghella]

I'm David.

[David Sims]

Kind of a throwback.

[Max Manghella]

I took a second.

[David Sims]

You took a second.

[Max Manghella]

I'm. I'm warming up. I'm sorry.

[David Sims]

It's a podcast on filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, such as making Fast Times at Richmond High. Sure. Or look who's Talking. One of the highest grossing films of 1989. Hit at the time. The highest grossing international performer that Columbia Pictures had ever released. Oh, yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

And are given a series blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want or. Or are legally forced to pump out a Look who's talking sequel 14 months later.

[Max Manghella]

Yep.

[David Sims]

Yep. This is a miniseries on the films of Amy Heckerling. It's called Pod Times at Ridgemont Cast. And today. Look who's podcasting two. It's us.

[Max Manghella]

Yep. We are podcasting two.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

And who's our guest?

[David Sims]

Our guest today. Long overdue on the main feed. He's popped in the main.

[Max Manghella]

He popped in one time on the.

[David Sims]

On the special features feed for the oceans 11. For the Sinatra. Ocean's 11, which was. It was actually kind of distracting that you popped in because we were running so hot on that episode.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, no.

[David Sims]

I thought we were so much to.

[Max Manghella]

Think about asleep in sarcophagi.

[David Sims]

No, we were like, Max came in and he interrupted us, and we were like, this is the last thing we'd need right now is something new to talk about because this movie is boring.

[Max Manghella]

As Max comes in and we're like, hey, baby, how you doing?

[David Sims]

Ring it in.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, exactly.

[David Sims]

We threw some bones.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Max McGill.

[Griffin Newman]

Guys, long term listener.

[David Sims]

Deep in thought.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a lot to talk about.

[Max Manghella]

You guys keep saying that.

[David Sims]

There's so much to talk about.

[Max Manghella]

Ben, I don't know. Was your talk about meter, you know, was it maxing out as you watch this?

[Ben Hosley]

I wouldn't say it was maxing. No.

[David Sims]

I. I feel. I feel maxed out. I mean, look, this episode's maxed out. Hey.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

That is taking it to the max today. And no one can argue with that.

[Max Manghella]

Look, look who's Talking to is a film by Amy Herckling, and it came out in 1990 and it didn't even do that badly.

[David Sims]

I made like 60 little hair under.

[Max Manghella]

60 domestic comparison to the first. It did poorly, but who expected any less, right? I mean, I doubt the good people at TriStar were like, you know, damn it, Heckerling. You know, like, they were like, yeah, sure.

[David Sims]

This is another thing we talk about.

[Max Manghella]

Ringing Blood from the stone. Right.

[David Sims]

For a long time, the formula was like, your sequel makes 40% of the previous film, and you just keep doing that until it no longer is profitable. Now there's the expectations that sequels grow. And there was the sort of collection of, I think, in particular, 80s action films that very quickly got canonized through VHS.

[Max Manghella]

You mean the sort of the Rockies and the Rambos.

[David Sims]

The Die Hard 2, Rambo 2, Terminator 2. Bump. Lethal Weapon 2 is another example where those all grew.

[Max Manghella]

You're right. Those went up.

[David Sims]

Two went way up. None of those movies, the first one made 100, and then the second one exploded. And then the sequels were big. Comedy sequels in particular, is part of them being like, rush it out. If we make 40% of what the last one did, we're still good. And a lot of these other franchises stopped it, too. Look who's talking. Of course, pushed out a third one without Heckerling, which then was calamitous.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

That one makes less than 10 million.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

That was a kind of. Who asked for this movie?

[Griffin Newman]

Which I think is even shorter, David, than this one.

[David Sims]

Oh, David, you're in for.

[Max Manghella]

I unfortunately looked it up as we are covering that on our Patreon.

[David Sims]

Yes, on our Patreon 245.

[Max Manghella]

It is a brutal 95 minutes long.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, no, I know. I mean, I. I was really devastated to learn that. I was hoping it was the. The arrest development. The. You know, maybe is making the movie the. And she keeps saying, like, it's the best 53 minutes. Like the time keeps going down every time she.

[David Sims]

Anyway, Max, you've been a friend of the podcast for years. I have we heard that you and Jamie Bell, a fellow friend of the podcast guest years ago, still has Ben's recording kit.

[Max Manghella]

What's up with Jamie?

[Griffin Newman]

We should get him to send that back.

[Max Manghella]

We should. We should get him to be on the show again once.

[David Sims]

Well, that's the real thing.

[Griffin Newman]

If you're listening, mate, send back the fucking accordion.

[Max Manghella]

No, Jamie, keep it from the black and pick, you know, whatever.

[Ben Hosley]

It's honestly fine. It wasn't like very expensive gear.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a cheap ban. We'll get it back to you.

[David Sims]

But we started messaging with you guys about coming on the show.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

The original plan was that you guys were gonna do Miami Vice.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, that's right.

[David Sims]

That you were the other two friends and that we were just gonna bro out on Vice together.

[Griffin Newman]

We have to revice.

[David Sims]

We have to revice.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we'll do that.

[David Sims]

But I forget what it was. But, like, travel plans changed and one of you two could make it and the other one couldn't. And there was a vote of solidarity of I refuse to go on without my brother. Which is why that episode was guest list. Right. Then we eventually got Jamie to do Contact. But like, great episode, by the way. Once or twice a year, we'll message you guys and be like, anything here. And you guys are always like, only want to come on if it's the right thing. Right? Like interrupting the Ocean's Eleven commentary.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

We're always talking to you, but we're always looking for the right episode. You were at Toronto promoting a film that you directed that was premiering their shell. And I saw a headline from an interview that said one of your biggest inspirations on the film was the look who's talking movies. And I messaged you immediately and I was like, max, it's on the fucking spreadsheet. This is a done deal. It's non negotiable. You have to talk. Look who's talking with us.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm so happy you reached out. I have a long. I have a long history of the first look who's Talking, a good film. When I was. I was trying to do the math on this, but it was. It was when I was four years old. Look who's talking. One was, I don't know if you guys were like this. I. When I was young, I used to watch movies just over and over same.

[Max Manghella]

And you and I are similar ages, Max.

[Griffin Newman]

Really similar, very similar lives. My history is basically an overlap of both of your childhood. If you guys were to combine, it might look like A horrifying thought. Horrifying. Horrifying thought. So anyway, I watched this. I watched look who's Talking one on repeat for about a year straight. I fell quite deeply in love with Kirstie Alley, which in retrospect, was a little eccentric, but I was really obsessed with her. And she's pretty.

[Max Manghella]

Got the big hair.

[David Sims]

The hair, you know, she was.

[Griffin Newman]

She was pretty sexy.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, She's.

[Griffin Newman]

She has the voice.

[Max Manghella]

Real woman, you know, 1989, she was a real woman.

[Griffin Newman]

Also was on Cheers at the same time. So I was getting double trouble. And I put together a package for her over. Over a course, about a year where if I had like a pack of M M's, I would save an M M and put it into the package.

[David Sims]

And the idea was that this was eventually going to be your gift offering to Kirsty. Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

To Kirstie Alley. And it was, you know, I was told it was sent to her. I'm sure it wasn't. I really hoped it was thrown into.

[Max Manghella]

A trash and Kirsty Alley on an envelope, put in a mailbox. We'll see what happens.

[David Sims]

Yeah. If you want to send stuff to Kirsty Alley, you have to bury it under this tree in the backyard. That's how she'll get it.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sure it just went straight in the dub, but I got an autographed headshot.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Somehow I managed to get an auto drop headshot. So that lived on my bedroom wall for quite a long time.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

And this movie, look, when you see this movie at 4 years old.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It's pretty educational. I mean, I'm talking about the first.

[David Sims]

Look, David, doing the loudest paper bag crinkle of all time.

[Griffin Newman]

It's quite educational. You're learning how the birds and the bees and all of that stuff, and it is a nice balance. You know, I think like you, Griffin, my parents didn't show me kid movies.

[Max Manghella]

They found them too cynical. Sort of like, you don't need that sort of trashy stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, the censorship wasn't like, you can't watch movies where people have sex. It was like, you can't watch bad movies. So I remember I really wanted to see Three Ninjas. I wasn't allowed to see that because it was considered crass.

[David Sims]

This was similar to my parents. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Any Woody Allen movie, totally fine.

[Max Manghella]

But once, once the three ninjas knuckled up, was an exception made?

[Griffin Newman]

No, no exceptions were made. I had to sneak off to see Suburban Commando. That wasn't permissible.

[David Sims]

What about when the Clock hit High Noon at Magic Mountain. Is that Mega Mountain? What's that?

[Max Manghella]

High Noon at Mega Mountain, I believe. I don't know Mega Mountain.

[Griffin Newman]

Anyway, I don't even know what was going to that.

[Max Manghella]

Well, you're talking about, like, a lot of these. The kids stuff didn't slip through the cracks for you, but I guess this one did.

[Griffin Newman]

This was a perfect balance because the movie is very juvenile, but it has these sort of adult themes and it's white. The second movie.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It all goes wrong. It's like this balance that's quite, you know, delicately handled in the first film.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Just all goes off the.

[David Sims]

Have you re watched the first one recently?

[Griffin Newman]

I did. I watched it before.

[David Sims]

Great. So I had this. This profound experience that was covered in last week's episode where, if you had asked me before we recorded, I was like, I have seen all three of those movies over 10 times because I watched them all repeatedly when I was a child and then watched the first one for the podcast and was like, I have never seen this before. I'm not recognizing most of these scenes. And everything I remembered being from this movie is actually in the second one.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Max Manghella]

You have seen this one a million times because it was on TV all the time.

[David Sims]

Two and three were on the Disney Channel constantly. And my parents were so weird about what they would and wouldn't allow me to watch. There was some connection to what you were saying, but then they also had their own weird eccentricities. But anything that was on the Disney Channel they assumed had been vetted and was okayed, even though that was not really the case. That early 90s Disney Channel was kind of a fucking junkyard. Um, and so I saw 2 and 3 so many fucking times, but have not seen them in 30 years. And I was like, there are things that are burned into my memory. And after watching one and being like, man, one's really fucking good. This is so much more of a movie, and this is a surprise to me, and I haven't seen this.

[Max Manghella]

And also, One is a story about two people and their characters that you kind of like. And the baby stuff is in there and is funny, but it kind of lifts out of the movie in a way, and it's like just sort of fun seasoning.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

Kirstie Alley, you're with her.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

She's going through a crazy thing. George Siegel cheats on her or whatever, you know, knocks her up and then leaves. All that stuff. Travolta. Is she gonna figure it out with this guy? He's so charming. He Drives a cab. These characters have integrity.

[David Sims]

I get.

[Max Manghella]

So the characters have no integrity. And lucre characters have integrity. This movie is.

[David Sims]

Say that to Mr.

[Max Manghella]

Toilet man straight up, I would say. And I was shocked. It shocked the conscience to use, like, legal language to see how Amy Heckerling did Kirsti Alley's character. So dirty in this movie. She transforms the character just for, like, plot reasons, essentially.

[David Sims]

Sure, yeah.

[Max Manghella]

It sucks. I mean, I'm not. I can't be mad because I don't.

[David Sims]

I want to finish my point.

[Max Manghella]

Fine.

[David Sims]

Which is when I go to rewatch this last night, I'm sort of like, okay, is this going to be even better than I remember? Because the first one over delivered so hard. And this has looms going into this with high expectations, large in my memory. And I was just like, they're images that are so burned in there. They're dialogue exchanges that I feel like I can recite even though it's been three decades. And very quickly I was like, this movie is deranged. It is unhinged. It is so much stranger than I remember. And I was trying to figure out, like, why was this so big for me growing up? Because it wasn't just. I was watching it because it was on. I was excited when it was on.

[Griffin Newman]

I liked the film a lot as well as a kid. Yes. And I totally missed the fact that this was poorly received. Was a weird movie.

[Max Manghella]

It was as good as no one's.

[Griffin Newman]

Telling you that I just forgot about.

[David Sims]

There was a third one. So I was like, people must have loved this one. They demanded that the dog.

[Max Manghella]

The gravy train rolled on. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But I had a very similar experience when I sat down to watch this yesterday. And I was like, oh, this is. This totally doesn't work instantly.

[David Sims]

But in trying to reverse engineer my connection to it, I was like, there is some weird thing to this movie of the. The baby's talking is a much larger element in this than it was in the first sort of.

[Max Manghella]

Right. But still. Still not that crucial. Plot wise, but there's more of it.

[David Sims]

Plot wise, I would say it's even less important, but there is certainly more of it. There are more characters talking and they talk more often. Right?

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But I think that that weird balance of what you're saying of like, it is a movie that is sort of told from the perspective of children, sort of. And has this, like, heightened, comical. Like, these are the anxieties of like, potty training or like things coming to life in your bedroom when you're going to sleep. Like these real kind of kids. I view anxieties blown up. And then the other half the movie is like adults dealing with adult shit above the heads of taxes. Taxes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I just think there was so much in this movie that I was like, I don't know what's going on, but this feels like a glimpse into the grown up world. Having a layabout brother who's staying on your couch for too long and figuring out what you can write off as a business expense and going through marital troubles. Like it is such an odd marriage. Of. The first one is really not a family film. It is like.

[Max Manghella]

Not really. Yeah.

[David Sims]

For grown ups. It is basically like an adult rom com and like a working woman movie that has this high concept baby hook that is so much less of the movie than like the cultural reputation would suggest. And then this is actually just this Frankensteining of two things.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it feels very bifurcated. It's like you sort of switch between potty training subplot.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of nightmare visions.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of a nightmare on potty training.

[Max Manghella]

Yes. Which I have recently lived through.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sure this is very relatable. Actually.

[Max Manghella]

No, no. I would say this doesn't really describe. There's one moment where it kind of hasn't an idea of how it actually works, but we can carry on with that.

[Griffin Newman]

And then. Yeah. And then this sort of breakdown of a marriage. It's weird that they decided to really create so much tension in the relationship when the charm of the first film.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Is how these opposites attract. And. And also to skip over the wedding. Right. Because they're already married in the second. This truly. I was like, why did you miss the wedding?

[David Sims]

This movie's relationship to time is insane. But I think part of it, which.

[Max Manghella]

The first movie is a little bit too. It does a lot of sort of jumping and you just kind of get it.

[David Sims]

But this is even more crazy where it's just like. There are weird gaps of like sometimes it feels like the movie is spending 20 minutes of screen time on 15 minutes of real world time. And sometimes like five years elapse in the middle of a cut.

[Max Manghella]

Not five years, but certainly this film takes place over, I would say 18 months from my sort of knowledge of babies, which is extensive. Not to brag.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Max Manghella]

In terms of like where the daughter from.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

And maybe two years. I guess if we're counting conception, which the movie does begin with. We do actually rewind.

[David Sims]

Well, I was gonna say they fuck themselves immediately with the ending of the first movie. And how do you build the sequel from this.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

Because the first movie ends with them kissing, Right. Having this sort of like reconnection moment. And then immediately cuts to internal sperm flying towards the egg. And then cut to delivery room. Female baby is born. Julie.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, great question. What are the names of the characters in this movie?

[David Sims]

Joan Rivers coming out of the baby's mouth.

[Max Manghella]

The. The. The girl is called Julie.

[David Sims]

Nailed it. There you go.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. All four children have the last name of Travolta's character. Uako.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, of course.

[Max Manghella]

Despite Bruce Willis. Mikey. Not, of course, being the biological son of Travolta.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

But I guess, you know, when they got married, even Molly takes the. They all become uiacos.

[Griffin Newman]

Did anybody else think that Mikey in this one looked younger than Mikey at the end of the first one?

[David Sims]

Yes, that.

[Griffin Newman]

Just me.

[David Sims]

It is a different Mikey. Right.

[Max Manghella]

Of course they have to. They reset the kids every time, I think. I mean, like, if you look at the poster for now, it's, you know, obviously brand new kids.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

I mean, yeah. So I think it's like by. Because, like by the end of this movie, Julie is kind of walking, right? Like she takes her first steps to the tristar. I love, I love, I love doing it to the TriStar music. Not to leap ahead in the action.

[David Sims]

This film's second TriStar bit.

[Griffin Newman]

Second TriStar bit. They really wanted to know who made.

[Max Manghella]

The film, what happened there.

[David Sims]

But this is what I'm saying is.

[Max Manghella]

That like temp music and then just no one decided to take it out.

[David Sims]

This is a movie with no overriding.

[Max Manghella]

Ideas, to be clear, just.

[David Sims]

And like 8,000 scraps of ideas.

[Max Manghella]

Because our listeners may not check in with this movie. Yes. When Julie takes her first steps, the sort of familiar music of the TriStar logo that plays while that happens.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

The. The music that goes through every parent's head when their children start walking.

[David Sims]

Right. They think of a pegasus inside a triangle.

[Griffin Newman]

I, I love that moment in the film, unapologetically. And there were other things in the movie.

[David Sims]

I think this movie has flame dunk moments in the back half.

[Griffin Newman]

I quite liked.

[Max Manghella]

Yes, it did.

[Griffin Newman]

It did sort of win me. Ben is looking at me like I'm a sick.

[Max Manghella]

The final 38 minutes is what you're referring to.

[David Sims]

I would just.

[Griffin Newman]

By the end of the film, I was like, you know what? Didn't hate it.

[David Sims]

I, I think you and I are completely aligned on this and a lot of this is probably.

[Max Manghella]

But you have a bit of nostalgia.

[David Sims]

For this thing, which I do, being burned into our DNA. But I also was trying to watch it objectively and I'm like, I cannot argue. This movie is not a mess. It is an absolute disjointed mess. There were moments where I was just like, fuck, these 30 seconds are good. Here's an idea. Here's a successfully landed joke. Here's a little stylish bit of filmmaking. Here's a fun performance moment. And then like, when it would cut to the next thing, I'd be like, this movie has no shape.

[Griffin Newman]

There are moments of filmmaking on that. There was these little things you go like, oh, yeah, of course, it's Amy heckling. It's not made by nobody.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a beautiful shot when she runs in to the airport hangar. And yes, I mean, that's gorgeous.

[David Sims]

But that sequence is so in the house burning, the apartment burning is like so high production value for like, nothing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And the. The DP who also shot the first one, there's a very specific esthetic to these movies. I mean, Thomas Dalroof, I don't know. I don't know if it's good or bad, but it has a real look. They both have a real look. It's got a strange, slightly soft porn.

[Max Manghella]

Yes, yes, they do have the fuzzy.

[David Sims]

They have a cinematic look.

[Max Manghella]

And like, there's a lot of neon in her house, which is never explained.

[David Sims]

Bra love is the sign she has above the tv, it looks like.

[Max Manghella]

Which is the same deal in the first movie where she's just sort of decorated the whole house with neon and you're kind of like. I feel like she's just done that because they like how it looks. Not because it makes sense for her character, but it doesn't matter. But it does give the whole thing. It's basically the same apartment. I assume that it filmed again in Calgary or whatever. Like it was not New York.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, there's more New York exteriors in this one for sure.

[David Sims]

I think there is. Like maybe one day of New York.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

Because there are a couple specific New York locations, but most of it was still in Vancouver, which as JJ dug up in the dossier, part of that was more lax child labor laws.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, great.

[Max Manghella]

We can look at the dossier now. The thing that bugged me about this movie is the thing I was saying about Kirstya Alle's character, Molly, who is now Ubriaco, I guess, Molly Jensen. Is that a plot point in this well designed humming script is that her brother shows up, played by Elias Jones himself.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

And.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, shit.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, that's him. Yeah, he didn't have the long hair, but that's that guy.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay.

[Max Manghella]

And he's sort of coded as like, kind of like a conspiracy theorist or whatever. He's like a little wacky.

[David Sims]

Travolta refers to him as a fascist. He seems to want to be a cop. He carries a gun around all the time. He is introduced wearing an NYPD hat.

[Max Manghella]

But he's not a cop. He's such a piece of shit. He sucks. He like very obviously sucks.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

He's not an ambiguous character. Like the audience is not supposed to look at this hat.

[Griffin Newman]

Does he say something pretty racist when he does?

[Max Manghella]

He says weird. He's always saying weird things. Right? Like an early 90s version of like a kind of red pilled guy.

[David Sims]

But also the movies like in. His behavior is incredibly clear. When characters talk about him in the movie, you could think they're talking about different people. Where it's like, Travolta is like, he sucks. Kirsty Alley seems to be like, look, he's my fuck up brother. I feel bad for him. Olympia Dukakis seems to be like, he's the golden boy. Why can't your shitty husband be more like our son?

[Max Manghella]

Right? So there's a little bit of that going on.

[David Sims]

He is seemingly very good at accounting.

[Max Manghella]

Right. He has like a weird brain that's kind of good for that, I guess. But everything else about him is odd.

[David Sims]

He wants to be a copper vigilante.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Ninja or Casey Jones possibly.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

He wants to go find the Turtle.

[David Sims]

Or like Dog the bounty hunter or ICE agent.

[Max Manghella]

He's like, he has a gun, as you said.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

And Travolta, who is kind of the same character he was in the first movie in this, he's basically just being like nice Vinnie Barberina kind of guy. Right? She's like, hey, he has a gun in the house. We have two small children. We should not have a gun in the house.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

And Kirc alle is like, relax. And I'm like, that is not the character from the first.

[Ben Hosley]

I 100 agree. She actually goes like this. Is it loaded?

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. No. Yeah. And it's so crazy. And it's obviously only for a stupid plot thing to happen later. Right? It's Chekhov's gun. The worst form of Checkhov's gun. It's a barely make sense what they use it for. Yes.

[David Sims]

Yes. Jump all the way to the end. The Chekhov's gone of it. Is that someone. You know what? We should save this for later.

[Max Manghella]

I want to. I wanted. That's where I was just like, I can't believe Amy's given up on her somewhat sort of like pseudo, you know, autobiographical protagonist here. Like, you know, in the first movie, she's a bit of an Amy Heckerling. She's going through an Amy Heckerling situation.

[David Sims]

Here's the single biggest thing, and this can lead us into the limited contest context that exists for this fever dream of a movie is that she says she was basically legally forced to make this movie.

[Max Manghella]

Right. Which we can talk about.

[David Sims]

She did not want to do it. And her quote was like, the story's done. The baby talk. There's nothing left to say that in her mind, it's like there is an arc to that first movie, which is like this adult rom com happening in this single mother story that is her working through the Ramis thing. Do you know the Ramis? I do. Okay, good. But also this, I think what is a good rom com hook of like, single mother meeting a guy and not being able to judge him based on, do I like him? But could he be a good father? Which is where the device of the baby talking is, like, effective in the movie is in the last 30 minutes when Mikey is like expressing to the audiences in her monologue of being like, dude, get it together. I want you to be my dad. And the character has this internal frustration of not being able to get who he wants to be as parents together, happily. Right. And then at the end, the baby says the one word. It's dada. And in Amy Hickerling's mind, like, complete story. And you introduce a baby sister at the end. And it's a fun little stinger joke.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm tearing up as you.

[Ben Hosley]

It's.

[Max Manghella]

Remind me of the beautiful.

[David Sims]

It works. And then TriStar is like, you obviously are making the baby sister movie right away.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, I mean, she. She kind of played herself, right? Having. She did. Having the. The team.

[Griffin Newman]

One thing I'd love us to do, guys, before we wrap up the app is we.

[Max Manghella]

I think we're done, actually.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Max Manghella]

I'll see you later. Yeah. 32 minutes.

[Ben Hosley]

Well done.

[Max Manghella]

Good.

[David Sims]

Actually, two hours on the clock. Two hours.

[Griffin Newman]

That's not bad for this film.

[Max Manghella]

No, no, go ahead, Go ahead.

[Griffin Newman]

What would. What would be the better path to take with this movie?

[David Sims]

I. I have some thoughts.

[Griffin Newman]

I'd love to hear you.

[David Sims]

Yeah, let's. Let's pin this. Okay, let's pin this.

[Griffin Newman]

Come back to it.

[David Sims]

But she basically says, I. I had no idea. Right. And like, Bob Gale and Zemeckis have talked about this too, the Back to the Future 2 ends with the. Like, your kids, Marty. And Universal was like, how ingenious that you set this up perfectly for a sequel. And they were like, that was a dumb joke in our minds. We never thought we'd make a sequel. And in fact, we fucked ourselves.

[Max Manghella]

It's kind of like Nolan having the joker card in Batman Begins where he's always insisted, like, you know, it just felt like a good button for the movie. It didn't feel like this insistent kind of like, the next movie is the Joker, get ready.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

But obviously everyone who sees the movie is like, I cannot wait to see who the joker will be.

[David Sims]

Right. I love Back to The Future Part 2. But like Galen Zemeckis have always said, if we had planned for that to be a sequel setup, Jennifer would not have gotten in the car with them. Like, that was the biggest single storytelling mistake we made is then Back to the future 2 has to be like, fuck, what do we do with Jennifer? Because we put her in the shotgun seat. Right. And similarly, I think Heckerling's just like, well, at the end of the movie, we'll just like cut to them. Kissing puppet, sperm delivery room, nice little button. And now Columbia's insisting that the sequel happen.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

The weirder part of all of this, and she doesn't talk much about this movie. She's like, I hated doing it. I felt totally lost. It was a miserable experience.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't even wanna talk about it. But the other part of this is there's this giant $20 million lawsuit that the first movie comes out October of 89. The lawsuit is filed at the beginning of 1990. Look who's talking to. Comes out the end of 1990, and the lawsuit is fuzzy, it's in the dossier. But basically this couple said that they had made a short film at afi, Amy Heckerling's alma mater, that was adapted from a short story that was about a hyper intelligent baby that could speak to its parents. A more heightened sci fi premise.

[Max Manghella]

Right, right. Sort of a baby genius, if you will.

[David Sims]

Yes, yes. Twin Kaplan, the best friend character in these movies. Later, Heckerling's producer on Clueless and Loser and regular stock company player was Amy Heckerling's secretary slash assistant. They met in the early 80s when she was just a struggling actress. And Heckerling was like, come work for me.

[Max Manghella]

Right. And we love Twin Kaplan. Yes, she's charming.

[David Sims]

The couple who do this short, which I believe was called Special Delivery.

[Max Manghella]

Yes, it was. The couple is. What are the names Jeannie Myers and Rita Stern. I don't know.

[David Sims]

Okay, so maybe it was not a couple, but this duo, right? They submitted to Heckerling's office. Twink Kaplan receives it, corresponds with them for months is like, can you show me more materials? Then after several months is like, I think we're gonna pass.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. We don't see a film here.

[David Sims]

They never interact with Heckerling directly. This is in the mid-80s. Then in 1987, they pitch it separately to a subsidiary of Tristar and they're like, interesting. We think there might be something here for a TV movie. It never happens. Then an 89, look who's talking comes out. Makes a gazillion dollars. These two file a lawsuit, like, immediately. The lawsuit is not resolved until April of 1991, months after look who's Talking to comes out. But they were suing for $20 million. There are always these cases where, like, Finding Nemo comes out. And then someone's like, in 1946, I FedExed a package that said, what if fish talk to Disney?

[Max Manghella]

And now you owe me $800 million.

[David Sims]

Right. And these suits usually get thrown out of court, Right?

[Max Manghella]

Or right. Whatever. Exactly right.

[David Sims]

There are the rare exceptions of, like, the Art Buchwald Coming to America case. This was settled for some undisclosed amount. They did not get the case thrown out. The judge ruled that there were too many similarities.

[Max Manghella]

There's often also. These cases often do get, like, a payoff is made essentially, and like, no one gets to talk about it. And that's that.

[David Sims]

And Twin Kaplan's like, we can't talk about it, but we're very happy with the end result. Sort of framed it as like, we feel like we won, but it can't be talked about. But somewhere within this lawsuit, it seems like there's some entanglement that then amounts to Columbia forcing her to make the second movie.

[Max Manghella]

It is not explained why exactly she had to do it, but yes, she had to do it. She brought along Neil Israel, her husband.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

To co write it. Although obviously we, you know, he's not the actual father of the child they had together. That's Harold Ramis. We talked about this all.

[David Sims]

And reports vary. This is where I go full Robert Graysmith. But by many accounts, they are divorced by the time this movie comes out.

[Max Manghella]

They certainly did not last much longer.

[David Sims]

No.

[Max Manghella]

This film was filmed in Vancouver, much like the last film was in Calgary. Sorry. And apparently Canada has. Has or had less restrictive child labor laws so they could have more time with the toddlers that was necessary film for 61 days, which is so funny. I mean, it's just funny. I know. It's not. It's just like.

[David Sims]

How many days did you have on your two movies?

[Griffin Newman]

I mean. Yeah, don't even ask me that question. Is too painful to. I mean, 61 days is. Is interesting for this film doesn't feel like a movie that's been made.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

They just did it slower back then. I guess they had a lot of kid wrangling to do. That is the one thing, I guess, that does cramp your time. But 61 days, like Steven Soderbergh could make, you know, all six Lord of the Rings movies in 61 days or whatever now.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

They had to get the lips moving.

[Max Manghella]

That's true. They had to.

[Ben Hosley]

That's not easy.

[Max Manghella]

They had two days and make it line up in New York.

[David Sims]

Two days dialogue. Yeah. David?

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

We all know about Monarch and their legacy of monsters.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, those. That Verse of Monsters?

[David Sims]

That infamous government agency that oversees the Verse of monsters. These monsters. King Kong, the Scar, King Godzilla, Muto Tiamat. Right. These giant big things that have so much power over our lives, sometimes they just disappear and then pop up again a couple years later. Right. It's a little like money.

[Max Manghella]

Tell me more.

[David Sims]

Well, it's hard to keep track of it.

[Max Manghella]

Messy and confusing.

[David Sims]

It's messy and confusing. And it has the power to take down entire buildings.

[Max Manghella]

Did you know about Monarch money?

[David Sims]

No.

[Max Manghella]

Well, they act like your personal cfo. They give you full visibility and control so you can stop earning and start growing.

[David Sims]

That's so.

[Max Manghella]

That's me stopping and starting.

[David Sims]

No, no. Really good sound effects.

[Max Manghella]

Thank you.

[David Sims]

And good object work, by the way. There was a really solid handle in David's hand. You could find. Feel the lever. It's so funny that I didn't know about Monarch Money and just happened to bring up Monarch and their legacy of monsters at the beginning of this ad read.

[Max Manghella]

So, look, the thing about Monarch is it's not just like an average budgeting app. It's a complete financial command center for your accounts, investments and goals.

[David Sims]

Right. Much like Monarch has command centers, if.

[Max Manghella]

You use it, you know, it's going to maybe show you where you overspend on shop, shopping, things like that. Identify where you're not saving as much as you mean to. It could help you maybe learn how to manage your 401k better. You can max it out or something.

[David Sims]

In the same way that Monarch tries to keep tabs on what's going on inside the Hollow Earth.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, there's like a podcast in that right.

[David Sims]

Several, I think. Brian Tyree Henry is a professional podcaster across the movies. Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

But Monarch was NAMED Wall Street Journal's best budgeting app of 2025, the top recommended personal finance app by users and experts with over 30,000 five star reviews. So you can get control of your overall finances with Monarch Money if you use code [e-mail] in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with code check check.

[Griffin Newman]

I want to hear more about the research. Tell me more.

[David Sims]

But this is the problem is that it seems like however this lawsuit was settled, no one involved can talk about it anymore. So she'll just give these offhand comments of like, it was like a big mess. Twin Kaplan has a couple times been like, I can't say a single thing. But we're happy with how it turned out. The people who pitch special delivery have never been able to talk.

[Max Manghella]

The way she's put it just is, I was kind of made to do the second one. I was not delighted with it. The suit was filed in 19. Like they approached in 1985. Yeah, it does. I can see why they had to settle on this. The timing is just doesn't look good.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

You know, and even though it is a married couple who learns that their unborn child has a full adult consciousness and a genius intellect. So that is not look who's Talking, but whatever. But according to Eckerling, somehow that lawsuit ensnared her into making look who's Talking to. The specific mechanics are not clear. She was forced into doing it for legal reasons. She said this was not a fun experience. And she's also, I think, having this sort of existential panic of, am I just making talking babies movies now? Right. Like, is this my life now? Joan Rivers was replaced by Roseanne Barr. Doesn't really explain why.

[David Sims]

I mean, they throw out the classic, like, scheduling difficulties and you talk. People say that about animated films. I'm like, that is bullshit.

[Max Manghella]

I can see that they were just like Roseanne's hot, hot, hot.

[David Sims]

I mean, that they were like, Joan Rivers is a funny end of movie joke. But if we're actually making the sequel, don't we want a name on the poster that's as exciting as Bruce Willis is the voice of this baby, I guess. Which in 1990, saying Roseanne is the other baby is like a slam.

[Griffin Newman]

I remember at the time feeling like a huge gift.

[David Sims]

Right. You're, you're just even As a child, you're like, that's funny. I'm laughing.

[Max Manghella]

But as a child, you are so familiar with celebrities who have one name.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

Like, those are the celebrities that first enter our lives. The Roseanne's, the Madonnas, you know.

[David Sims]

Finish.

[Max Manghella]

She's one in the Arsenios. Right.

[David Sims]

And also has a very distinctive voice. Like, people impersonate Roseanne now, famously, an early trailer.

[Max Manghella]

The Stings.

[David Sims]

Yes. Michelangelo, Leonardo, Donatello.

[Max Manghella]

Sting was one where I was like, it took me a while to be like, so his name's like, not Sting at all. Right. Like, it's not like his name is like Sting Jones.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

Like, and he dropped the jokes. He just made that up.

[David Sims]

You know what? Roseanne is kind of the rare example in the. In the list we just did of like, it is just her first name.

[Max Manghella]

Same with Madonna. Same with Madonna.

[David Sims]

Right. I always forget that that is her first name.

[Max Manghella]

Cher. Right.

[David Sims]

Cherry for sure. Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Another one. Very good. Cheryl is Cherish Cheryl. But still, still. Richard Pryor famously is the voice of the friend child in the early trailer. And apparently his performance tested horribly.

[Griffin Newman]

I saw the trailer for the first.

[Max Manghella]

Time, and what's the vibe? I have not seen this.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, they really. They really push him in the trailer.

[David Sims]

But that first teaser and Richard Pryor, it's fascinating because that first teaser, speaking to how quickly this movie was pushed around is like 60% footage from the first movie. It's like, remember Mikey? And then it shows you a bunch of clips from the first movie, and they clearly just have like, a few soaking wet clips from dailies of the second one. But they like, call out Richard Pryor. He, of course, has already, like, his health struggles have progressed.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. This is not right. Like, primo Richard Pryor in that clip.

[David Sims]

On YouTube, which is very low quality, his voice is not very clear. Like, I could see it testing poorly, being less of a thing of like, we don't think Richard Pryor's funny and more like, this guy is struggling to speak. Yes.

[Max Manghella]

So he's replaced with Damon Wayans in Living Color. Premieres sort of right before this movie comes out, like, a few months before. So, like, Damon Wayans is starting to get hot. Yes. Keir Seali got $2.5 million for the film and came out December 14, 1990, 14 months after its predecessor was released. And it made 48 million domestic, which is $100 million less than the first movie. So it's not good. Yeah, but it's still enough money. And I'm seeing here. This can't be right. So JJ may be fired that the reviews were negative.

[David Sims]

Weird.

[Max Manghella]

Not sure. That seems crazy to me.

[David Sims]

Max, can you talk about. Because we have not gotten to see Shell yet, sadly. Can you talk about.

[Griffin Newman]

I should have brought it for you guys.

[David Sims]

The influence it had on your film. In what way? And how much of it is just sort of like the memory you had of look of talking versus what it actually is.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, what's. So what's the name of that actress we were just talking about who. Who was the assistant?

[David Sims]

Twink. Kaplan.

[Max Manghella]

Twink. Kaplan.

[Griffin Newman]

Twink, right.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

She's in Clue.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a character in. In Shell, played by Esty himself, who is, I would say, very influenced by the twin character in the look who's.

[Max Manghella]

Talking in look who's Talking in the.

[Griffin Newman]

Look who's Talking movies. Shell is a. Is a very eccentric, hopefully really fun movie that's very much made probably for people who listen to this show. It sort of exists within.

[David Sims]

The world.

[Griffin Newman]

Of studio movies of the late 80s and early 90s, and not in a. Not in a cynical way. It's trying to sort of earnestly emulate a sort of piece of studio product from that period of time and all of the things that come with that, including sort of strange studio notes and reshoots. And, you know, I hope the movie contains all the textures that a movie of that period might have.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And. Yeah, look who's talking about the aesthetic of it. There's a slightly. Even the first one. Right. There's something slightly nightmarish about it.

[Max Manghella]

Yes, well, the puppetry, too, and the. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's a bit of a dark movie. There's weird fantasy sequences, heads exploding, things like that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it has this sort of the veneer of like a fun Kids are talking and is John Travolta. But there is something slightly ominous bubbling underneath the surface all the time. And so hopefully Chell has a similar.

[David Sims]

Energy. We were talking right before record about. And it's what I love about you, that we were talking about the films of Walt Becker and you talking about which ones you had seen recently since your reappraisal of him as a vulgar auteur. You were apologizing for certain movies you hadn't seen in too long where you're like, well, I saw before I understood who he was.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you guys are totally responsible. Well, now we're getting off topic. But for my fascination with waltbecher, the Old Dogs episode. Guys, if you haven't heard the Old Dogs episode, the live episode, that is top five for me. All time blank check episodes. I've listened to it probably 17 times.

[David Sims]

Insane.

[Griffin Newman]

But to what? Because you get to watch along this batshit movie with an incredibly entertaining commentary. He's really interesting. He's a really interesting guy.

[David Sims]

He's fascinating.

[Max Manghella]

And you think that the aesthetic here reminds you a little bit of the later Becker, the kind of family.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it doesn't.

[Max Manghella]

This movie.

[Griffin Newman]

This movie. I do want to talk about this though, because this movie, I mentioned Drop Dead Fred and.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Three Men and a Little Lady. It also is in the canon of dark sequels.

[David Sims]

Huh?

[Griffin Newman]

Gremlins to the new batch. There is some stuff here, right?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Pig in the City.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But going to Gremlins 2, the kind of the Tri. The TriStar jingle, like even the. The Mr. Ed at the beginning of the film.

[David Sims]

Yes. Which Gremlins 2 does with the Looney Tunes. Right, Right.

[Griffin Newman]

We're starting to get into that territory of children's films with a little bit of a weird vibe.

[David Sims]

And Gremlins 2 is the absolute best version of this where it's also a like, hey, we have 8,000 ideas movie.

[Max Manghella]

It's overflowing with ideas. It kind of throws away the first movie. Not entirely, but kind of like, don't worry about. I mean some of those characters are still here, but like that's not what's gonna happen now. And you're very much like, that's fine. Like it's a new movie. This movie. It's the same build, you know, it's the same rooms. So it's a little harder to kind of just be like anarchy.

[David Sims]

Well, the reason I was re invoking Walt Becker is not because I think Walt Becker shares a commonality with the movies we're talking about. Right. But that I think he's one of which weirdly the last standing examples of. Talk about what you were getting at with Shell. Right. This era of filmmaking where like they allowed enough personality to come through, directors still had enough control while making things that were designed to be mainstream popular entertainment. Right. There were still mid budget movies that were healthy, that are being supported by the studio where the stakes are low enough that they'll let you do your weird shit to a degree. But then that has to be balanced with studio note shit. There was some odd Frankenstein middle ground, I call it.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's like the test screening period to me. In my mind, it's like that is the filter system that everything has to go through and has to pass.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're right. Before that, the filmmaker gets to be much more expressive than Probably a contemporary.

[David Sims]

Studio gun for hire, but there's almost like a feast or famine thing now of. You hear about a lot of like big franchise movies where they pre schedule extended reshoots and they're like, look, on set, we will let the director do a couple takes their way and then the producer's gonna weigh in and insist that they do a couple more normal takes. And then they let the director put together their cut while having another editor put together the most normal cut. And then they test screen both of them and then they go into the reshoots to either amplify what they like that the director did, or tone it down and make the more sort of like banal version of it. Like they have this whole choose your own adventure system to prevent there for ever being any personality that's too irreversible on a like $200 million scale. And I think if people get a lower budget, they're fighting much more adamantly for like, I'm going to make this exactly the way I want with no concessions. Because it is so rare that anyone gets any kind of opportunity like that, that this sort of like negotiation career filmmaking of Heckerling being like, look, if I check like six boxes they want, will they let me do my six things over here? And this movie doesn't have overriding. I have things I want to say, but it has like moments and sequences and ideas that feel like things that excite her even if there's no larger excitement. And I think that's part of like the weird soup of this movie and her even being like, I was miserable and I was forced to do this and I'm like, but there's stuff here. I do think part of it is that it's like you get into this.

[Max Manghella]

There's no stuff here, by the way, but carry on, dude.

[David Sims]

Max and I are gonna fight on.

[Griffin Newman]

David.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Why are you being so cruel?

[David Sims]

The potty Mr. Potty eats poo poo and pee pee.

[Griffin Newman]

People worked really hard on this film for 61 days.

[David Sims]

61 long days.

[Max Manghella]

A baton death march making look who's talking to for two whole months. Yeah, the potty joke is funny.

[David Sims]

Isn't a joke.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it funny?

[Max Manghella]

It's. Well, it's sort of same like this film begins with first. Yes, we have the long and again, for a 75 minute movie, possibly too long. Kind of feels like making your font to any point where it's like the sperm and the eggs. And I'm like, is it going to be different than last time when they're like, well, we have the diaphragm first.

[David Sims]

It opens with the TriStar Pegasus running and Bruce Willis doing a Mr. Ed impression.

[Max Manghella]

He does do that.

[David Sims]

Narrating the TriStar fanfare.

[Max Manghella]

I mean, I think we were all asking for that. And I think it pays out like a slot machine.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

Like $5.

[David Sims]

Then it starts with diaphragm shots.

[Max Manghella]

Then it's, Then we have. Right. The repeat of the first movie is fertilization with plus a diaphragm. So there's an extra layer of, you know, protection. What.

[Ben Hosley]

Here's the question, though, because Bruce Willis is once again voicing the sperm. Christie Alley is voicing the egg.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And the diaphragm.

[Ben Hosley]

And the diaphragm. But that, that is so. But then shouldn't it be Travolta?

[David Sims]

Look, it should.

[Max Manghella]

I don't know how much we should be getting into gender on blank check, but it's interesting that these sperms are male at all. I'll say this now. They're male because they're coming from the man. I get the thinking. Right.

[David Sims]

Well, and it also, look, in the first movie you're starting, I understand this arc with the one little sperm.

[Max Manghella]

It becomes Bruce Willis who crossed.

[David Sims]

So of course it has to be.

[Max Manghella]

You know, all fertilized eggs are female until during the one chromosome gets introduced. So biologically maybe everything should be female. And then there's some point at which a flip gets switched but might be too complicated for viewers to understand this. I don't know.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

What's important is that it goes on for. This is not my point. My point is, after all of that, the film begins and the first thing we see is Bruce Willis baby Mikey getting tormented by monsters in his room. Right.

[David Sims]

This is where I was gonna correct you. That's being cross with the conception because that's the whole.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, sure, right. It's the same. Right.

[David Sims]

They're having, they're, they're, they're doing a little foreplay.

[Max Manghella]

They're doing a little bit of hanky.

[David Sims]

She's making sure that the diaphragm's in. And then he starts screaming because his dolls are being possessed.

[Max Manghella]

But it's quite.

[David Sims]

Which are being done with like puppet master style.

[Max Manghella]

It's kind of scary. Yeah, straightforwardly scary. And you're like, well, kids do get scared of toys. I, I, I understand the gag here, but this is just kind of a scary vibe for this movie. As, as Max is saying, like to.

[David Sims]

Kick off with, that's when I was.

[Max Manghella]

Kind of like, demons are here.

[David Sims]

Fuck I was right. Five year old Griff was right. This movie's a masterpiece. Let's go. Like when in the first four minutes it's thrown all of this out. Yes. But right then Travolta basically puts the kid back to bed. Then they fuck. Then the opening credits happen to the impregnation.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

Right. The one sperm makes it through the diaphragm, sneaking through.

[Ben Hosley]

But shouldn't have been Roseanne's voice as the egg. Do you know what I'm saying? The logic doesn't make sense.

[Max Manghella]

I think there's just no right way to this. Probably Right. Like it's just kind of like you're, you're, you're snookered no matter what you try.

[Ben Hosley]

Or it should have just been what's his name with the silly voice, who's the gym coach or whatever. It should have been Godfrey's.

[Max Manghella]

More Godfrey. I'm happy. Like if this movie wanted to over index on got freed, I'd be giving it a thumbs up. He should have been the wasn't enough.

[Griffin Newman]

Got freed at all.

[Max Manghella]

It's not nearly enough Got Freed and he was still rudely given a Golden Raspberry nomination.

[David Sims]

Jossy's Jim.

[Max Manghella]

That's his. That's his sort of play center thing.

[David Sims]

Right. His version of Gymboree. I think it's Jossie's gym. The font is weird on the sweatshirt.

[Max Manghella]

So. Yeah. It just like sets a weird tone. The monsters. I don't know, Max.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a tone of the film. The whole movie's got that weird. It does nightmare energy to it.

[Max Manghella]

It's got nightmare energy. We sort of. We lose track of Kirstie Alley's job. We kind of see her once where she brings the kid to the office and gets reprimanded.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And there's not much work. The male character, sort of the antagonist of that scene also is talking about some kind of medical issue that he's having, I believe. Which sort of nods to the first film. When she goes on the date with the toupeed accountant. Yes.

[Max Manghella]

And that guy did have a toupee vibe. The match.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. But I feel like Amy Heckeling associates a certain kind of man she finds unattractive with them talking about their bodily functions.

[David Sims]

But also, am I wrong in thinking that the boss at the Office who lambasts her for bringing the kid to work is Neil Israel, her husband at the time who co wrote the movie.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, is that right?

[David Sims]

I think so.

[Max Manghella]

I mean, sure.

[David Sims]

Which is also funny to slot him into one of these Parts.

[Max Manghella]

It is, it is interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

Metalaya to it all.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

He is Mr. Ross. And look, he's talking to. And I believe. Yes, that's him.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Wow. Playing just like an absolute turd. Yeah. Like just come in for one scene and suck.

[Griffin Newman]

It is a film of like independent sequences that feel almost entirely unrelated to one another.

[David Sims]

Right. Which is where it works. I mean, just like look at this fucking still image of teddy bear with glowing red eyes and a literal little demon imp over its shoulder. It's not just like, oh, the kid's worried that if the lights get turned off, the stuffed animals are come. Are going to come to life. He's literally worried that like demons are creeping on his shelves waiting to possess the toys.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

That is 2 minutes and 25 seconds into look who's talking to.

[Max Manghella]

Now I think maybe you guys don't agree, but we have all had that experience as young children trying to get to sleep in your dark bedroom and you know, you start to imagine weird shit about the stuff in your room. Your previously gentle toys do take on a nightmarish aspect. So it spoke to me.

[Griffin Newman]

It spoke to me too. And I think she's quite intuitive about understanding a very young child's brain. In both movies even. There's a scene in this movie movie where, you know, it's like all from Roseanne's POV and the kids are all kind of coming in and the kids, John Travolta and Kirsty Alley coming up. They're looking at her and it is quite Terry Killiam esque.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And then they leave and she's just with the nanny. And I thought that that was quite, quite an interesting little moment. Like I did connect to it. I found it felt quite visceral, angry. That's what it feels like to be a baby.

[David Sims]

The core issue of this, as we all remember, is that she has like an overabundance of Mikey ideas.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

There's a little bit of a sense of what to do with Julie in relation to Mikey.

[Max Manghella]

Uh huh. Right.

[David Sims]

She has no idea what to do with Travolta and Ally.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And they are your main actors.

[Max Manghella]

Right. The birth sequence, which is not long after because they do a little bit of in utero stuff with a freaky puffet. But it's, it's, you know, the movie.

[David Sims]

After the opening credits, the movie basically jumps to her being eight or nine months pregnant. Yeah, exactly like that. Now there's a time jump to she is at the end of her pregnancy.

[Max Manghella]

But the birth sequence is a C section where, like, the cord is wrapped around the baby's neck and there's, you know, the mildest suggestion of, like, oh, yeah, this is like a stressful birth. Also kind of dark and nightmarish.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

You know, like, especially because the puppet. The baby puppet this time is really.

[David Sims]

Is really strange.

[Max Manghella]

It's not. It's not good. I don't know if they rushed to.

[David Sims]

2001 dream child made while blindfolded.

[Max Manghella]

Is the puppet as bad in the first movie? Maybe it kind of is. But this is, like, a thing I.

[David Sims]

Have a fondness for is, like, how bizarre looking the baby puppets are.

[Max Manghella]

Right. But. Yes. Yeah. But again, like, right. It's like, so that's dark. And then. Yeah. Once the baby is born, the vibe is basically like Travolta and Ally at each other's throats. Travolta struggling in his new pilot career. Ally just kind of mad at everybody.

[David Sims]

They flash totally past the marriage. Right. It's like we're starting the movie with the insemination. Then we're jumping ahead to she's late in her pregnancy. Then there's the scene where she goes to visit Olympia Dukakis and she's complaining about how much she hates Travolta, refers to her. Him as her husband. And you're like, oh, so they're married now. That happened. That happened somewhere.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

And Dukakis is sort of like, he's a schlump. He should be more like your brother.

[Griffin Newman]

She's the MVP of these movies, I think.

[Max Manghella]

I mean, Dukakis is. She's just solid, like, as a rock. Right. She's never gonna. And she's in the third one, too.

[David Sims]

Yeah. She sticks with it, Reg.

[Griffin Newman]

Less of a coming back for this one.

[Max Manghella]

I think Siegel might return for the third one.

[David Sims]

That sounds right.

[Max Manghella]

Which is.

[David Sims]

Well, we need closure on that.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. I wonder what he must. Because I feel like they must just have to introduce more tension into the marriage.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

I guess.

[David Sims]

But they're, like, doing his accounting.

[Max Manghella]

Who's accounting?

[David Sims]

Travolta. Because she comes from a family of accountants.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Everyone in her family is an accountant.

[Max Manghella]

Right. And it's Amy Heckerling's dad, of course. Once again, playing the dad.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

With the. With the adding machine.

[David Sims]

And they're doing the math on how little Travolta is making as a flight instructor. Even though Mikey keeps defending that's not his main job. And Kirstie Alley's defending it's not his main job. And they're sort of like, he's got to kick it into gear. He's got to be more like your insane fascist, right wing vigilante brother. Right. So the movie's like trying to set up like, what is their drama going to be when what you don't want is for their relationship to go through trouble because the first movie is setting up actual obstacles towards them ending up together.

[Max Manghella]

But we're settled on, like, they have chemistry and work.

[David Sims]

It's a victory.

[Max Manghella]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

Right. And I think to take the pin out of like, what should this movie be? Right. I couldn't land on quite the right thing. But you want it to be like, them going through a struggle. Not with their relationship to each other. Sure. But just like they have. His career is taking off, they're both working, they have two kids. How do they handle all of this? Almost as sort of like, how do we find time to keep our relationship fresh and engage with each other versus.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, they keep trying to have dates.

[David Sims]

But they go, yeah, right, right, right. Like that's sort of the charming version of it versus, like all the grown up stuff in this movie is incredibly hostile and is sort of just them yelling at each other for 76 brisk minutes. Well, Elias Cody has just things up.

[Max Manghella]

I guess, sort of he's in and out. You kind of forget he exists for a while and then he's back. Right. You know what I mean? Like, he's. He's not too consistent.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but do you think part of that too is like she's. She's created this set up with the Kirci Alley character in the first movie that is a reflection of her own personal thing with. With the Ramis affairs.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

Transposing it onto a slightly different set of circumstances. This woman having to be a single mother rather than in a marriage. And then she's created this sort of fantasy movie version of like. And this charming movie star, taxi cab driver comes in, charms everyone, wins everyone over, and then it's just like, well, now her fantasy is played out. What happens next? Especially while her marriage is dissolving in real time while she's making this movie with her husband. So then the movie ends up being this reflection of a couple just being like, what the fuck are we doing together? Like, with this weird hostility.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Which it's like that married to what I think are some genuine observations in why this movie hit for us when we were children. Max. Of just like, this movie kind of gets the way the world looks when you were that age.

[Griffin Newman]

And I also, as a kid, I loved all the tax Scenes. I mean, I did.

[David Sims]

I liked the tax scenes.

[Griffin Newman]

I liked. I liked that scene when know the tax season scene. Do you remember that scene?

[David Sims]

Oh, I remember the tax season.

[Griffin Newman]

I remember really liking that.

[Max Manghella]

I'm struggling to remember it. I watched this movie 12 hours ago. What happened is which scene are we talking about here together?

[Griffin Newman]

It's a Saturday night. They're like, why aren't we going out in the town? And they're all really getting into David. Really related to this movie in a different way.

[David Sims]

It's a good joke where the three of twin Caplan Elias Codas have fallen in love. Here's another this movie's odd relationship with time thing. Twin Kaplan has like five distinctly different hairstyles that almost feel like they happen out of sequential order. When she is introduced, she has like a tight Little Orphan Annie bob. There's a stretch of scenes where she has the world's longest ponytail. But like the scenes before and after that, her hair is short.

[Max Manghella]

Well, when you're shooting for 61 days, maybe continuity just gets away from you. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how else to explain.

[David Sims]

That they look like wigs. But it also makes me wonder if some of this movie was reconstructed in post. Because the other thing that comes out is that interesting. And I was trying to find deeper sources for this, but it's like you're.

[Max Manghella]

Looking for something that does not exist because no one ever bothered to report on this movie.

[David Sims]

Who cares?

[Griffin Newman]

The lawsuit probably didn't fucking help anything.

[David Sims]

No.

[Max Manghella]

Right. Everything has to get buried and. Yeah, but okay, what.

[David Sims]

What are you, the wikipedia and the IMDb, which of course are both fanatics. Did both have the same claim that when this aired on cable television, which.

[Max Manghella]

Is where I watched it many times, deleted scenes.

[David Sims]

There was 20 minutes of extra scenes.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Because they needed to get it to two hours.

[David Sims]

Totally. But so they're just like large swaths of these of this movie missing. And one of the things they said there's multiple instances of is that Kirstie Alley keeps having recurring fantasies that are different stylized dream sequences of Travolta cheating on her. And you have the one red Corvette scene.

[Max Manghella]

Do you think that's because Travolta's like, hey, I want to fuck some ladies in this movie? Maybe they were like, all right, we'll do dream sequences, I guess. Guess.

[David Sims]

But the one example of it happens in the tax season scene, which is like the three of. After Travolta has left, the three of them are doing taxes together. And Kirsty is like, look at us. Isn't this depressing? We're staying at home on a Saturday night doing taxes. And then twin Captain Elias Codas and Unison say it's tax season, like it's their national holiday. And then Kirsty Alley zones out and imagines Travolta like racing with some bins.

[Griffin Newman]

Like a Wild at Heart esque.

[David Sims]

Right. But apparently there's like a Yoko Ono John Lennon parody scene.

[Max Manghella]

Sounds a little root one, but sure.

[David Sims]

All of this sounds insane.

[Griffin Newman]

Why don't we have any of this footage?

[David Sims]

I couldn't find it.

[Griffin Newman]

I'd love to see all this.

[Max Manghella]

I'm sure you could find the sort of extended TV somewhere. Well, but you know, you might need a week or two.

[David Sims]

I might need a month.

[Max Manghella]

Exactly. You might need to really go deep.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Could like start hitting up like VHS festivals and being like. Anyone record Luke who's talking to. Off tv.

[David Sims]

Because that's almost definitely the version I would have seen.

[Max Manghella]

There's like a corporate. There's like a scene where she threatens to spank or spanks Mikey.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

For being bad. The scene where Mikey pushes the stroller without, you know, asking. And then Kirsty Alley supposedly was like, I object to spanking. I don't. I don't want.

[David Sims]

Demanded to be cut. But then it's back in the TV version.

[Griffin Newman]

To go to your point though, about the film feeling like it's been reconstructed in post. It is a movie that is filled with adr.

[David Sims]

Yes, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But in quite.

[Max Manghella]

Some of it is unused.

[David Sims]

Are talking.

[Max Manghella]

Some.

[David Sims]

Some talking.

[Max Manghella]

Sometimes it's not live audio. I don't know if you guys caught that.

[Griffin Newman]

Sometimes it's inexplicable. You'll be in like an interior scene where there's a very controlled environment and none of the dialogue seems to been rewritten. And yet all of the dialogue is ADR'd.

[David Sims]

Right. And sometimes ADR, like very apparent ADR is punching in for like two words in the middle of a sentence.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep. Yeah, I noticed that too.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

All of that was. Was raising a lot of questions that didn't have answers.

[Max Manghella]

Yes, we. Right. We haven't really talked about the fundamental thing quandary in this movie, which is that Mikey, who I guess by now is two and a half, three somewhere.

[Griffin Newman]

I had no gauge this kid was. He seemed like he could be 11 months old.

[Max Manghella]

He's. So he's a. He's an advanced toddler.

[David Sims]

Sure is. But he's. I mean, he's nine months older than he is at the beginning of the.

[Max Manghella]

Movie, which is the end of don't ask me.

[David Sims]

But, you know, he's truly seemingly ages.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. I think he goes from sort of like two and a half to three and a half. And she goes from birth to like one and a half. Right. Something like that. He is talking in this movie. It's not like the first movie where his thoughts are merely being projected to the audience. And it's a baby, and it's clearly a baby that's just being a baby.

[David Sims]

And he, of course, says only one word at the end of the first.

[Max Manghella]

He says dada.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

Big moment.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

In that movie. Not in this movie.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

In this movie, whenever he's talking with the voice of Bruce Willis, the boy is going. He's flapping his mouth.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

And saying something constantly. Not. I believe what we are hearing.

[Ben Hosley]

Wait, really?

[Max Manghella]

Well, I don't know.

[Ben Hosley]

I. I thought he was just not talking to anyone the whole time.

[David Sims]

Well, they're all.

[Max Manghella]

But he is talking.

[David Sims]

There are moments.

[Max Manghella]

See, there's so much.

[David Sims]

And he said.

[Max Manghella]

Right. Sometimes he'll say, like, penis.

[David Sims]

Says penis. Several times.

[Max Manghella]

No penis. Right. And that whole.

[David Sims]

That is said in the voice of the child actor in Vancouver.

[Max Manghella]

Right, right.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, they call it out, though. But he's not the whole time speaking out loud, I don't think.

[David Sims]

Well, this is. What's interesting is at certain moments when the lips are flapping, they almost sync up with what Bruce Willis is saying.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Where you're like, did she have the kid on set do his best to say what she had written?

[Griffin Newman]

Dude. The final button of the movie, when they're sort of. I don't know, sort of standing around together, he is fully articulating words.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

As. As a child, his age would be.

[Griffin Newman]

As a child, his age would be. And there's something completely different.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

In the voiceover, he's saying something along.

[Max Manghella]

Lines of like, I want a cookie. And Bruce Willis is like, hey, this kid's right. What a smooth cat over here. Like, Bruce Willis is doing his.

[David Sims]

But sometimes it does feel close. And they react to him as if they understand the basic thing he's trying to say.

[Max Manghella]

It's illogical. And we talked about Rugrats, I believe, on the last episode.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

We talked about Rugrats.

[Max Manghella]

And in Rugrats, I don't know, Max, if you're a Rugrats kid.

[Griffin Newman]

I was a Rugrats kid.

[Max Manghella]

As we sort of dug into. It's like Angelica was on both sides. She could speak to the babies and to the grownups.

[David Sims]

Right. Angelica is sort of, let's say, Mikey's.

[Max Manghella]

Age, somewhat of a Mikey, sort of a three year old.

[David Sims]

She's got a foot in each world.

[Max Manghella]

Whereas the babies would speak, but only to each other. And it was implied that the parents couldn't hear them essentially when they spoke.

[David Sims]

But she can sort of be a conduit between the two.

[Max Manghella]

That logic, while blurry, is much stricter and more logical than whatever's going on in this movie.

[David Sims]

Yes, I would agree.

[Max Manghella]

Right. Whereas this movie is basically more like, what do you think your baby's actually saying when he's talking? I guess.

[David Sims]

I mean, look, perhaps I'm being too generous to the film and I don't think they nail it down. But I read the attempt as the kid has verbal capabilities, but his inner life is richer and deeper than what he is able to say. Yeah, right. That he is at early stages of language, and so he is able to externalize certain things to the outside world. But they are more simple, like saying the word penis six times. And Bruce Willis is the inner monologue of what he wishes he had the language to express.

[Ben Hosley]

Then they should have had a distinct voice for that.

[David Sims]

For which.

[Max Manghella]

Interesting.

[Ben Hosley]

They should have had a, like a baby voice. Even if it is like vo.

[Max Manghella]

Like, hey, man, there are. There's no bad ideas right now. We're figuring this out.

[David Sims]

There are moments where the kid talks in his own voice. I'm saying, yeah, but there's really just the penis.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, I think there's maybe one or two.

[Max Manghella]

Are there any others?

[David Sims]

That's a good question.

[Max Manghella]

The penis moment is what I'm remembering.

[David Sims]

Well, we cannot forget the penis.

[Max Manghella]

Well, we can talk about it right now. It's a scene with absolutely no problematic overtones whatsoever. In which, I guess they're educating Mikey on how he has a penis and his sister does not.

[David Sims]

They're giving Julie a bath and he's very concerned by her lack of penis.

[Max Manghella]

Right. And then they start flipping through a magazine, ask him to. They're pointing at every celebrity they see and be like, penis or no penis?

[David Sims]

Well, first she says, I think we got to give him the talk. And I was like, are you gonna give him the birds and the bees talk?

[Max Manghella]

And the talk is just, there are women and men. Genitals are different. I guess that's what I mean. Yes.

[David Sims]

So she takes out a magazine and points at like, Sylvester Stallone and Goldie Horn. Goldie Hawn, George Bush senior. Is there a fourth one?

[Max Manghella]

I think it's. No. The. The joke is they land on H.W. bush.

[Griffin Newman]

Rule of three.

[Max Manghella]

And they can't. And he's like, I don't know. And they're like, ha, ha, ha. Which I guess is basically just saying, like, George H.W. bush is kind of a dweeb. Like, I. It doesn't really trash Bush. Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

That's the joke.

[Max Manghella]

Do you think so?

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's a Bush joke.

[Max Manghella]

Yes. No matter what. It was a better version. I was so afraid of some more.

[David Sims]

You were afraid they were gonna point to RuPaul?

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Kind of homophobic joke or like, you know, a sort of. It's Pat situation of like, oh, this lady looks like a man, or whatever. Some like that.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Max Manghella]

So that was better. But also I was kind of like, I don't really get it.

[David Sims]

Yes. But then the kid learns to say penis and says penis out loud in his own voice a bunch.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Not Bruce Willis voice.

[Max Manghella]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Right. I think with this movie is the. The Mikey stuff in the movie works a lot better for me.

[Max Manghella]

The Mikey stuff in this movie?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Because, like, the travails of a toddler is something new. Whereas Roseanne's character, Rosie, the baby Julie, is just going through the same as. We already saw that in the first movie.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

There's no. There's nothing new there, really.

[David Sims]

To try to tell the. The story of the. Kind of like the, you know, a thing I relate to very strongly, which is the feeling of disruption in your world where you stop being the one baby.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And there's another thing here.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you vouch because of. Because of your sister.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You probably know I'm also the dynamic we've all experienced. I'm an only child, so I know have those same.

[Max Manghella]

Okay, well, Griff and I. Right. We both endured the entrance of a new sibling. Now, you had the additional. You were way older when there was a third sibling, but that feels less traumatic. That's probably more interesting than anything.

[David Sims]

It was interesting. Right. When by that point he was kind of engaged. I had the distance of being like, I'm watching what a baby is like with a little bit of perspective. Versus when James was born, I was three.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. And that's. It's.

[David Sims]

And I had this real equilibrium. Who the.

[Griffin Newman]

So James is your Julie.

[David Sims]

James is my Julie.

[Max Manghella]

Now, supposedly, I got along great with my brother. I've always been told that I was not. I was a smooth transition on that front.

[David Sims]

Right. I got along horribly with my brother.

[Max Manghella]

But even when he was a baby.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I knock him out of the crib. I didn't like him.

[Max Manghella]

And what are we talking about here? Knock him out of the crib. Like, he's standing up and you're trying to pull him out. What's going on?

[David Sims]

No, he's sleeping down. I'd be trying to push him. I'd like unlash the thing. I was trying to push him out. Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Dude. Ben, I hear stories like this. Like, there's an extended family story where, like, someone put a baby down a laundry chute. Like, it's crazy. Children have no real empathy, so you kind of got to keep your head.

[David Sims]

That's why I asked you, when you're.

[Max Manghella]

When you're twins, death, you know?

[Ben Hosley]

Sure, sure.

[David Sims]

When your twins were born, and I've continued to ask you semi regularly, how does your daughter get along with them?

[Max Manghella]

It's not been an issue.

[David Sims]

And I asked this with all of my friends who then have a second kid.

[Max Manghella]

Because it can be.

[David Sims]

Because I'm so worried, because I remember being such time. A long. A little menace to James and being like, let's kick this thing to the curb. Get him out of here.

[Max Manghella]

No, I think because my daughter loves, like, baby dolls and baby. You know what I mean? Like, all of the sort of play of babies, like, feeding and. Right. Like, which a lot of kids do. She just locked in with them as, like, little toys.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Max Manghella]

Pretty quickly. I don't know. She. She loves them. There's been no issue yet. I imagine there'll be issues once they can. With her toys. Oh, that's sort of like the next level. Right. Where it's sort of like. Then you're got this sibling who's, like, messing with yourself.

[David Sims]

Well, that's when things got even worse for my brother and I. But you're starting it with them, like, prepping him to be like, are you ready to be a big brother? And then he has this fantasy sequence of, like, taking her to FAO Schwartz alone and taking her out on the town where it's sort of like, oh, Mikey's excited at the prospect of the responsibility.

[Max Manghella]

Right, sure. Like, of being helpful or whatever.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

And then the movie kind of can't pick a lane between, like, does he feel a need to protect her or does he not, like, having her around? It will alternate.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Which I guess, sort of naturalistic tracks.

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of the Mike Lee element of the movie.

[Max Manghella]

It's the Mike element and I think Mike Lee, when I.

[Griffin Newman]

You did a pass on the script, right?

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He just came in for one week.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

This movie is rude to Kir All's character. It came out of the improv rehearsals.

[Max Manghella]

Where it's like, so Elias Cody's, you know, Codius. Elias Codius. Elias Cod. I always say, Elias Codius chases a robber out of a house with a gun. And, you know, the recycling catches on fire. What would you do? And the babies are like, okay, that's interesting. I assume that's how Mike Lee works. I don't really actually know.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, the babies did a pass as well.

[Max Manghella]

Babies did a pass.

[David Sims]

That's. David.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You ever lift a little too hard?

[Max Manghella]

Sure. You mean. Yeah, Lift something too heavy. Yeah.

[David Sims]

No, I mean like you're. You're lifting, you know, you're at the gym, you're getting your reps and you lift too hard. Then you start. You start stinking up the place. You forget to apply your daily deodorant. You get hit by a truckload of B.O. from all directions.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, I can't say that I have, but okay. Okay.

[David Sims]

So I guess this is more kind of my personal experience. I can speak to this from a perspective. Having this problem every day. So I'm doing my reps, I got my boy spotting me, and then ding dong. Oh, Ben, can you just hit the door quick?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, hold on.

[Max Manghella]

Creek. Hello?

[Ben Hosley]

Hey, what's up? How can we help you?

[David Sims]

This is the way.

[Max Manghella]

Are you the Mandalorian?

[David Sims]

No, I'm the Mandaloderant.

[Max Manghella]

Wow.

[David Sims]

You.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, I got a to tell you right away.

[David Sims]

It's the way to start smelling better.

[Ben Hosley]

You smell fantastic.

[David Sims]

Thank you very much. And it's hard when you're wearing this much armor. Escar Steel at all times now. And lifting.

[Max Manghella]

I've heard that Mando whole body deodorant is from the founders of Lumi.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

And it helps men conquer their odor in a new way.

[David Sims]

That reminds me, have I introduced you to my child? Baby odor.

[Max Manghella]

You can look. I. I know that that's a nickname.

[David Sims]

His real name.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Grogu. Grogergu. Grogu.

[Max Manghella]

Formulated with mandelic acid, Mando has long lasting 72 hour odor control that actually stops it before it starts. And he can put it everywhere.

[David Sims]

That's the way.

[Max Manghella]

Feet.

[David Sims]

Yes. Back under helmets.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Under shoulder pads. Under knee pads.

[Max Manghella]

Try their best selling scent, Bourbon Leather. Are you wearing that right now?

[David Sims]

Of course I am. I'm also wearing Beskar steel.

[Max Manghella]

Of course you are. Yeah, we got a big Mando package. And sometimes you get a package in the mail and you're like, oh, sure, this was a big package deodorant. I'm like, this is actually pretty useful. I'm Going to. I'm going to dig into this. Have you been enjoying your Mando Griffin?

[David Sims]

Me? Griffin? Yes, of course. This is what I like about this package. They sent us a lot of different form factors. Mando has a whole range of products in terms of finding what you like like best, in terms of applying the best scents where you need them. You got roll ons, you got creams, you got sprays, you got body washes.

[Max Manghella]

Yes. So look, it was created by doctors who saw firsthand how normal BF was being misdiagnosed and mistreated. Blocks that are all days controls it for up to 72 hours. It's baking soda free. It's paraben free. You can find in Walmart, Target, other retailers around the country, or go to shopmando.com if you want to get it for the get the best deals. Okay, so Mando's starter pack is perfect for new customers. Comes with a solid stick. Deodorant cream tube deodorant. Two free products of your choice like mini body wash, deodorant wipes, something like that. And free shipping as a special offer for listeners. New customers get $5 off a starter pack with our exclusive code that equates to over 40% off your starter pack pack use code [e-mail] S-H-O-P M A N D O.com Please support our show and tell them we sent you Smell fresher, stay dryer and boost your confidence from head to toe.

[Ben Hosley]

With Mando, I was thinking maybe it could be crow. Ooh, smells so good.

[David Sims]

Well, it's my son. That's not his name.

[Max Manghella]

You.

[David Sims]

I can't rename it.

[Ben Hosley]

Say the name again.

[David Sims]

Grogger. Gro. Gro.

[Max Manghella]

Der. Gooch.

[David Sims]

David.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

This episode of Blank Check is brought to you by booking.combooking. yeah, I got confused for a second.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, no.

[David Sims]

I thought my glasses were fogged up. Okay, because I'm looking across the room at your handsome mug. For a second I thought, is Matt LeBlanc here?

[Max Manghella]

Why did you think that?

[David Sims]

Because I'm looking at a man with a plan. I'm looking at a man who likes making plans. You don't like leaving things up to chance?

[Max Manghella]

No, I hate. I like to plan things very, very carefully.

[David Sims]

Actually, you like to organize a trip. And you know what's helpful for that? Booking.com.

[Max Manghella]

That'S right.

[David Sims]

From vacation rentals to hotels across the U.S. booking.com has the ideal summer stay for absolutely anyone, even those who might seem impossible to please, like Phoebe Buffay, who's got very specific tastes.

[Max Manghella]

Look, whether you're booking for yourself, your partner, your sleep light early rise mom, or your high maintenance group chat, I'm always booking for that group chat.

[David Sims]

Yeah, well, your family's a bit of a group chat.

[Max Manghella]

True. You can find exactly what you're booking for on booking dot com.

[David Sims]

Tell me about your hotel preferences, David.

[Max Manghella]

I love a sauna.

[David Sims]

Okay. Okay.

[Max Manghella]

Anything spa. I love. You know what I love? A robe. Give me a robe.

[Ben Hosley]

Customized robe.

[Max Manghella]

Give me a fluffy robe.

[David Sims]

Now are we talking hot tub in room. Like, like kind of comically shaped hot tub heart, A big, A big martini glass. Is that what you want in room?

[Max Manghella]

Sure. Some strawberries.

[David Sims]

You want strawberries?

[Max Manghella]

I don't know. They're always fun.

[David Sims]

You want strawberries in your stay, David? You know what I like when I'm on vacation?

[Max Manghella]

What do you like?

[David Sims]

A giant bed? I like to get a comically large California king. Yeah. You know what? Yeah. I feel like a Hollywood king.

[Max Manghella]

Sure.

[David Sims]

I get the kind of bed you couldn't fit into a New York City apartment and a bed that is comically oversized for a tiny little man like me.

[Ben Hosley]

And what's great about booking.com is it gives you all of these different filters and options when you're searching. Looking for a place to stay.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Where you can, you know, say, I would like to have the largest bed.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Possible.

[David Sims]

Possible. You might be surprised to hear I'm pretty specific in my bathroom preferences as well. Another thing that Booking.com helps me filter out to make sure I got exactly what I need. Here's the thing. If David can find his perfect stay on booking.com, anyone can true.

[Max Manghella]

Find exactly what you're booking for booking.com. booking. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Book today on the site or in the app.

[Griffin Newman]

The scene I fucking loved as a kid and I really enjoyed again, maybe just out of nostalgia, was the attempt to get into Total Recall.

[Max Manghella]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Because when you're a kid, all you want to do is go to an R rated movie.

[David Sims]

Yes. But. But the other fun angle of it is that Travolta is just like, I kind of want to see this grown up movie. I got two kids now. I never get a break.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. So it's, it's very, it's appropriate. 1990. Right. Like total Recall is the hot new.

[Griffin Newman]

Movie has just been released in the summer.

[Max Manghella]

Right. That film came out summer of 1990 and it is not appropriate for children.

[David Sims]

He's taken to a theater that is playing on one screen Total Recall. And on the other screen, seemingly a compilation of Betty Boop shorts.

[Max Manghella]

He does say that the other option is Betty Boop. They don't really explain. Which is also kind of grown up.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

For a cartoon.

[Ben Hosley]

He also, they're separated. He has, he's. He has time on his hands.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, you're right.

[Ben Hosley]

And he's actually just being the worst dad.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

He's like living up to the stereotype of a deadbeat.

[David Sims]

He also comes his way into the.

[Griffin Newman]

Theater so he does this charming road.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Max Manghella]

They kind of explain it as kind of like the old I left my shoe in the theater trick. And I was watching it being like, damn, that's a good trick.

[David Sims]

Because Bruce is going like, ah, dad, come on, don't do.

[Max Manghella]

Those are the shoe Return of Bruno where like, yeah, he like pockets one shoe and is like, hey, my kid left his shoe. Can I go get it? And that's how they get into the theater. I mean, I loved that.

[Ben Hosley]

I filed that away.

[Max Manghella]

I know. I was kind of like thinking, on your feet, barbarian.

[Griffin Newman]

Popcorn bucket was also really ingenious.

[David Sims]

And then when you cut out of the movie, both the kids have chocolate ice cream all over their faces and he's apologizing to them.

[Max Manghella]

But did they watch Total Recall?

[Griffin Newman]

They did, yeah.

[Max Manghella]

They did.

[David Sims]

Yes, absolutely.

[Max Manghella]

So why isn't there a scene where for the next couple of weeks he's going like, like, you know, doing some lines from Trouble. Like, what is it, two weeks. Right?

[David Sims]

Like, yeah, he should do that.

[Max Manghella]

Right, they should do that. Or like consider that a divorce. Yeah, I could do that.

[David Sims]

But this is. She's concerned that he doesn't have enough drive in his life. Right. Mostly because of her parents pressure.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Also he is a taxi driver come sort of airline, sort of pilot, teacher, whatever. He does have a weird kind of.

[David Sims]

Life, but he makes like $22 a month teaching classes. And he's like, I basically don't have enough time to teach classes because I'm busy parenting and driving a cab. What I really want is to actually get a job flying for one of the airlines. Then Elias Kodius just shows up at the door with the NYPD cap, is basically like, I'm here. I'm going to stay on your couch with my gun. Then she at some point says, like, he might be able to help you get a job. He somehow hooks Travolta up with what seems to be a like, rent your own private jet airline.

[Ben Hosley]

I think it's the parents though. I don't think it's the brother.

[Max Manghella]

Doesn't.

[David Sims]

Don't they say that he Knows somebody.

[Ben Hosley]

I.

[Max Manghella]

You know what?

[Ben Hosley]

I wasn't paying very close attention.

[David Sims]

It's a naughty plot, so I don't.

[Ben Hosley]

Remember the specifics, but it's kind of.

[Max Manghella]

Like the Spanish Prisoner or whatever. It's just kind of, like, so dense. There's so many double crosses. No, I didn't remember who, but it's basically. But it's like a charter airline. Yes. He's basically like, the fanciest form of limo driver.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

Like, he's getting off these charter flights and the rich people are like, where's my briefcase?

[David Sims]

He hates these entitled customers. You basically get to this halfway point in the movie where he hates Elias Kodias. Kirstie Alley will not brook any criticism of her beloved brother.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

He's also stressed out and busy from his job, which she thought would make him happier if he had a sense of purpose. But instead it's causing more fraying at the edges. And then they get into this fight based on the gun. Because Travolta is like, there shouldn't be.

[Max Manghella]

A gun in the home.

[David Sims]

He walks out in the middle of the night and Codius pulls the gun on him, right?

[Max Manghella]

Yes. Cody mistakes him for a stranger when he comes home late and pulls a gun on him, which is a sign of Codius maybe not having, like, the most responsible attitude to gun ownership, where he's like, I'm pulling a gun if that door opens.

[David Sims]

Right. And then at the halfway point in the movie, basically, they just split up.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, sort of.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He's still around a lot. And he comes and he takes care of the kids.

[Max Manghella]

Well, because he is the biological father of one and the de facto father of the other.

[David Sims]

Does an extended dance sequence at the Gymboree equivalent.

[Max Manghella]

Freaking John Travolta we're talking about. Got to have him dancing.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

He's great.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, he's always great.

[Ben Hosley]

That seems awesome.

[Max Manghella]

Max, you ever worked with John Travolta?

[Griffin Newman]

I've never worked with John Travolta. John Travolta never crossed paths. But, no, actually, it's not true. I met him at the wrap party for Primary Colors.

[Max Manghella]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Wild.

[Griffin Newman]

And he wasn't very nice, actually.

[Max Manghella]

You would have been a teenager, I.

[Griffin Newman]

Guess I was a teenager, yeah. Quite excited to meet him. And he wasn't particularly engaged.

[Max Manghella]

That's too bad. I mean, I'm not, like, stunned to hear this.

[David Sims]

He was maybe still in character.

[Max Manghella]

Well, no, I did.

[David Sims]

That guy was a schmoozer. He would have been.

[Griffin Newman]

He would have done a double. Double handshake.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Is One on the. One on the elbow.

[David Sims]

He would have been playing sax.

[Max Manghella]

I googled Max Mangella, John Travolta, and all I got was an IMDb piece of trivia from the film Spiral, which you are in. It was from the Book of Saw. You opened the book, which apparently the police basement vault door in that movie is manufactured by a company called Jules and Vincent. A sly reference to Pulp Fiction.

[Griffin Newman]

That's right. I remember seeing that actually on the wall and. Oh. Cause Sam Jackson's in the movie.

[Max Manghella]

Because Samuel Jackson's in the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

That makes sense now. Now I make the connection.

[Max Manghella]

There you go. Because you weren't like, I'm making a movie. You were like, the book of Saw has been opened and I simply must follow.

[David Sims]

I'm stuck between the pages like a bookmark.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. I'm just a small cog in the. In the Saw machine.

[Max Manghella]

Well, you're more of a spiral. Spiral.

[Griffin Newman]

But I'm a John Travolta fan. I think he's a movie star. And he's specific. You know, in the first one especially, he's really. He's really charming. And I do think. I think David is gonna shake his head adamantly. What am I gonna say? But I do think that Kirstie Alley and John Travolta in this movie carry over a. Some kind of natural rapport. Like, even though they're fighting the whole time, they have an ease with each other as actors.

[Max Manghella]

No, I'll give you that. I think it's sort of. It's kind of leftover. It's a bit of a half life from the last movie. But it sort of helps make the movie survive that they do have something. The existing chemistry, even if they don't get to really deploy it.

[David Sims]

Them splitting up doesn't work for me because the whole time I'm like, they could talk through this.

[Max Manghella]

They just need to have, like, three conversations. They need to have like three conversations. Rom com shit. Except, like, it's kind of the laziest version of it. And I think also the movie does Kiersey Alley dirty in that she's kind of the problem in all of the fights. Travolt. It's basically like, hey, why don't you make enough money? Why do you care that my brother has a gun?

[David Sims]

Right?

[Max Manghella]

Like, and so you're just kind of like, she's being a pain in the ass. Like, which is not fair.

[David Sims]

Annoyed that he's not happy.

[Max Manghella]

Right?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

And his only complaint is like, hey, we never have sex anymore, you know, or whatever.

[David Sims]

Right. I hate the. The artificial obstruction in rom coms. And it's part of what I was so pleasantly surprised by in the first one that it's like. No, there's the moment at, like, the halfway point where they hook up and then she stops it because she's like, I gotta be responsible.

[Max Manghella]

This is. This is almost too intense. And I'm, you know, raising a child.

[David Sims]

A young child, which feels like a human obstacle.

[Max Manghella]

Sure.

[David Sims]

And something that can be resolved through the growth of the characters versus this. It's like the movie's trying to, like, throw shit at them and that just have both of them react kind of petulantly. And then you get to this insane finale where, like.

[Max Manghella]

Okay, it's a huge question. The finale that you were setting up.

[David Sims]

Cause we have Elias Codeus on the couch with the gun. As you said, it's a Chekhov's gun situation. Before we get to that, somehow this is gonna come back into play for the first time.

[Max Manghella]

I'm the one who's like, if we can backtrack slightly. There's this kind of great, but then also fully irrelevant moment where Kiersey Alley just gets in her head that Travolta can't be flying tonight. It's stormy outside. She's scared for him.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

So she drops everything. She leaves the children in the care of her psycho brother, which is insane, but that's what she does. And that sets up what is coming next.

[David Sims]

Right. First she calls and she says, hey, can you reach out to him? And they said, no, he's already in the plane. And she says, can you call him? And they say, no. So then she gets in a cab and she seemingly arrives at the airport within 35 seconds.

[Max Manghella]

Right. She gets there weirdly fast.

[Griffin Newman]

And then we cut to some B roll from entrapment as a windows unsealed.

[David Sims]

Right? Then there's a break in from a master thief who's carving a hole in the window.

[Max Manghella]

You do get all of that. Who plays the thief using expert tools.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, played by, like, the A cam operator.

[Max Manghella]

To steal what? Baby clothes? Like, I don't even know what he's after in this house.

[David Sims]

Seems to only be targeting their opponents.

[Griffin Newman]

It's one of the most bizarre.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Such a strange contrivance to have the reason they're out of the house be. She kind of has this flash of sympathy for Travolta and gets on a plane to tell him not to fly. And he's like, she. When will you shut up?

[David Sims]

She breaks into the cockpit, basically saying, I have a Terrible feeling. And I'm having, like a premonition.

[Max Manghella]

It's like a final destination situation that you're gonna die.

[David Sims]

You need to not take off on this plane. And it feels like she's getting to the point where she likes. Like, this forces her to admit, I love you. I want you.

[Max Manghella]

I never stopped loving you.

[David Sims]

I had a flash of what my life would be without you.

[Max Manghella]

And he's basically like, shut up. I work in an airport. Like, they would tell me if it's not safe to fly. And then like one second later, like, not safe to fly. And he's like, all right, let's go home. It's just weird. It's just weird writing, right?

[David Sims]

And they're like, I guess, like, you were proven right, but in a way that was unnecessary for you to come here because they were never going to let me take off anything way. Which sort of proves him right. Which is he was like, look, if it's not safe to fly, they won't let me fly.

[Max Manghella]

He's right.

[David Sims]

So I will fly until they give me the word, which they then do.

[Max Manghella]

And her reason for going there should be them reconnecting and loving each other, which is what's happening. But they don't really. It's not really there. But now we have, like, anyways there, so they're not.

[Griffin Newman]

I argue, that seems too grounded.

[David Sims]

Yes, exactly. But also, we're like at a tarmac with insane movie rain. And we've shown her, like, cab driving. Like, all of this seems expensive and complicated, right? This is not an easy set piece. Even if we don't have, like a plane taking off, it's an expensive location. It's weather. It's all of this. Then we're cross cutting with the thief breaking in. Elias Codas responds. You're like, oh, this is why this character has what they would have refer to as these Travis Bickle delusions of being a vigilante. He pulls his gun on the guy who then runs out, right? And Elias, the guy who's like, hey.

[Max Manghella]

Man, I was just here for a.

[David Sims]

Baby bouncer, I'm sorry, Chases him out to the street.

[Ben Hosley]

He doesn't have any stuff with him at this point?

[David Sims]

No.

[Ben Hosley]

He's like, run out because he's been caught, right?

[Max Manghella]

There's no reason to chase him.

[David Sims]

But this guy's so over cranked with the idea of being a hero, you're like, well, this is why he has the gun. Except it doesn't really matter. It's like the gun empowers him to leave to Run down the street in the hopes of shooting this guy, which doesn't happen. And then the second he leaves the kids alone, the apartment catches on fire.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, he left a fucking frying pan cooking.

[Max Manghella]

Not only that, they left a bucket of paper for recycling, I guess. Newspapers and stuff, like, next to the oven.

[Griffin Newman]

Does anybody think this was reverse engineered? Maybe a little bit.

[Max Manghella]

You think, like, Kirsty Alley subconsciously has kind of been like, I want to die. I want to die in a fire.

[David Sims]

You're right that it does feel like some weird final destination set up where, like, after the.

[Max Manghella]

The plane thing is Final destination, and this is a different final destination.

[Griffin Newman]

Can somebody recut this sequence into a sort of Final destination teaser and then submit it to the fragrance?

[Max Manghella]

If you're listening, one of those great teasers where you're, like, seeing a horror movie. The trailer starts and it's just like someone going like, do frying egg. And you're like, what's this movie? And then they go like, huh, let me go get my knife for, you know, and you're like, oh, it's Final.

[David Sims]

Destination to what we were talking about earlier.

[Max Manghella]

I watch them all.

[David Sims]

I think the first movie clearly has the studio note of, like, something more exciting needs to happen at the end and there need to be stakes. So they reverse engineer this somewhat absurd car chase thing where Mikey sneaks into the front seat of a car that's being towed and then gets stuck in traffic and they have to go save him, which proves that John Travolta care. And then he says, da, da, Right? And it, like, is a studio note, but it feels like the exact right size. Oh, look, they got a tiny version of what feels like almost an action scene at the end of this movie. They clearly came to her with a similar thing of, like, there need to be stakes.

[Max Manghella]

We need a little bit of a juicy climax.

[David Sims]

And they throw three things at the wall at the same time. That all are insane.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

That are all happening parallel in a way that does feel like. It's like. Like death has an agenda. There is a balance.

[Max Manghella]

This family should not exist.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Max Manghella]

And it teaches the kids the lesson that they love each other.

[David Sims]

I guess, but he's already kind of learned that lesson.

[Max Manghella]

I know. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

We haven't even talked about it. But the, like, dynamic between the brother and the sister, it's so unclear, you.

[Max Manghella]

Know, it's like, are they ever, like.

[Ben Hosley]

You can't tell if they're even fighting.

[David Sims]

Or just be the juice of the movie.

[Ben Hosley]

I know.

[Max Manghella]

No.

[Ben Hosley]

And it's not there at all.

[David Sims]

Right. Because he has this sequence where he, like. There's a long montage where he, like, remembers the first. Look who's talking.

[Griffin Newman]

If you haven't seen this movie, it has more montages than Rocky 5.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, it's an absurd number for.

[David Sims]

A movie that's 75 minutes long. It has multiple, like, End of Horizon and American Saga esque.

[Max Manghella]

We also have a good reference to that.

[David Sims]

Thank you.

[Max Manghella]

That Damon Wayans, of course, plays another toddler who has some jokes. And there is a talking toilet voiced by Mel Brooks to represent the horrors of pot training. I mean, I know we briefly mentioned that Mr.

[Ben Hosley]

Toilet kind of is.

[Max Manghella]

He's good. That's kind of. There's no. I have no issues with that. He's gonna bite your tushy if you don't give him poop and pee.

[Ben Hosley]

He sprays blue, like spit.

[Max Manghella]

He does when he talks, like, kind of cleaning fluid.

[David Sims]

And they have this.

[Ben Hosley]

Come on, you're laughing.

[David Sims]

I love her enthusiasm on the toilet. That then turns into, like, a walrus mustache and killer vampire fang.

[Max Manghella]

The thing that it gets when they're trying to first prep Mikey on toilet training, where they're like, you know, you're gonna. You know, is him being like, I don't want to poop outside my diaper. That's what nobody tells you about toilet training, is that kids are like, the experience of pooping into the void is night and day from pooping into a thing that catches it right on your butt.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Max Manghella]

And they just don't get it.

[David Sims]

Well, it's so low hassle.

[Max Manghella]

It is low hassle for them. That's true. But I think there's, like, poop in.

[David Sims]

The diaper and then you take care of the rest.

[Max Manghella]

But, like, they start to get annoyed by getting changed because it's a fucking pain in the ass when you're like, oh, a three year old and you've taken a, you know, a regular person's poop. But, like, they just. I think there's something physical about, like, get it. Getting caught. You know what I mean?

[David Sims]

I don't know how to describe the real thing. I think the movie's getting at that. I think is smart.

[Max Manghella]

I have successfully potty trained my daughter, too.

[David Sims]

Congratulations.

[Max Manghella]

Thank you.

[David Sims]

Only two more to go.

[Max Manghella]

Yes. Seriously.

[Griffin Newman]

Look who's talking. Reboot.

[Max Manghella]

Okay, listen, a lot of people have circled this. Oh, and also, we didn't talk about the baby talk. I don't know if you wanted.

[David Sims]

I have, I have. I watched so much more.

[Griffin Newman]

I watched. Oh, go keep Going, Griffin, keep going.

[David Sims]

Well, I just want to finish this Mr. Toilet thought. Okay, sure. What I like, what I think is smart about this and goes back to my, like, she had like, scraps of ideas is that they're trying to potty train him. Right. He's against her for all the reasons you just listed. They've it. I like that he basically cross references with Damon Wayans and is like, hey, your parents trying to do this, like, potty training. And he's like, yeah, Mr. Toilet who eats your poop and your pee? And it's that thing of like, oh, right. Parents say different things to their kids.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

And then when you put kids in a social situation, they start comparing notes and they don't track.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

Because you have that earlier thing where Mikey's like in bed trying to fall asleep and he's doing the math on like, okay, so like, ninjas are real, but dragons aren't. Dinosaurs used to be real.

[Max Manghella]

No, he says, like monsters used to be real but dinosaurs aren't. Or is it the other way around? There's like a joke like that. That's pretty.

[David Sims]

But there's a joke of like a kid starting to under, like, reckon with real world logic of like, which things and stories used to happen in history in which things are completely created in the way of like kids on a playground. Everyone currently has their head buried in their hands. As I try to unpack this. But like comparing notes on Santa Claus and the story falling apart. I like that Damon Waynes introduces to him this thing that is like, my parents told me this and I like it. But to Mikey, it's the scariest shit in the world.

[Max Manghella]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, this is the benefit of doing a baby writer or a room.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

They. They give you some insight that you wouldn't get from grown adults.

[David Sims]

The Mr. Toilet prop sold at auction last year.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, did it now?

[David Sims]

In immaculate condition as part of the big planet Hollywood auction that happened when most of the locations closed down. They got rid of the archives.

[Max Manghella]

I'd say it's a little yellowed. I don't know if we're. I'm talking immaculate here.

[David Sims]

I think it looks pretty.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me see. It is horrible.

[Ben Hosley]

Jesus, that's a horrible image.

[David Sims]

Oh, God. I was surprised that it only sold for $5,000.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, really?

[David Sims]

For such a hero prop in good condition, working mechanisms.

[Ben Hosley]

What do you do with it after you get it?

[David Sims]

What do you do with it? You call a plumber you hook that boy up. Let's make this functional.

[Max Manghella]

You're right.

[David Sims]

I need someone to eat my poo poo on my pee pee.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, if you saw that online on eBay for $5,000, you would be making some phone calls to see if it's doable.

[Max Manghella]

Imagine you're.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm sure my wife would.

[Max Manghella]

Exactly. You go on a date and you come home and the guy you know, hey, where's your bathroom? Oh, it's the second door on the left. You walk in there and you're confronted with Mr. Toilet.

[Ben Hosley]

And I just want to say that's the first time I said my wife.

[David Sims]

Hey.

[Ben Hosley]

And I feel like this is a perfect moment.

[David Sims]

It's a perfect moment. My wife, you would not submit.

[Griffin Newman]

So romantic.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, exactly. I can't wait to report back to her about Mr. Toilet.

[Max Manghella]

Look, I can tell you that, but not to spoil. And look who's talking now. But Willis, Barr and Wayans are not part of that movie. Along with Amy Heckerling.

[David Sims]

The kids have grown up in the third movie. The now is referring to dogs.

[Max Manghella]

The voices are just the dogs.

[Griffin Newman]

But they found some real acts. Isn't it like Diane Keaton.

[Max Manghella]

Diane keaton and Danny DeVito. Yes, the big two, I call them.

[David Sims]

And David Gallagher from 7th Heaven plays Mikey.

[Max Manghella]

Sounds great.

[David Sims]

Who's now like five or six, right? Yes.

[Max Manghella]

But, yes, Reports of a reboot have bubbled away since 2010, when Neil Moritz.

[David Sims]

Of the Fast and Furious and Sonic.

[Max Manghella]

Franchises said he was considering a reboot. And Amy Heckerling said, griffin, you tell me what I'm doing.

[David Sims]

Oh, she did the John Carpenter. I love the idea of a reboot because if they do that, they'll have to pay me.

[Max Manghella]

Exactly, exactly. That's like, I have no interest in being involved, but money goes in this hand here whenever you want to do that.

[David Sims]

But they're basically three reboot things. Neil Moritz gets the rights. Jeremy Gerelick, who wrote the Breakup Screen.

[Max Manghella]

Gems, brings in Jeremy Gerelick to write a and direct.

[Griffin Newman]

The Breakup is a phenomenal movie.

[David Sims]

Breakup's a masterpiece.

[Max Manghella]

The Breakup is the Peyton Reed film. That film was very good.

[David Sims]

Excellent.

[Max Manghella]

Yes, it is excellent. And it's the kind of movie we need more of today in our rom com, less, you know, hobby.

[David Sims]

It's one we're talking about where it's like, there are no artificial conflicts. That is a movie actually about people fighting in a way that feels like earned.

[Max Manghella]

Right. But I guess nothing came of that. Kiki Palmer.

[David Sims]

His qualification, by the way, in writing the film was that he has four children.

[Max Manghella]

He has four children, including twins. So he's got me beat by one. Kiki Palmer on the Nope. Press tour was basically like, let me at a Look who's talking film. I don't. It doesn't need to be relate. You know, it can be a reboot, it could be a sequel, whatever.

[David Sims]

We can just rip it off. I want to do my version of that. And then Heckerling weighed in recently and said her and her daughter last year.

[Max Manghella]

Said that her daughter Molly.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

The inspiration for the first film, of course, was working on a script with her.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

Who knows if it'll become a thing? Maybe, you know, now that's a little sad in a way, but also a little sweet of like, hey, maybe things came full circle for her and she decided, like, I'll work on this with my kid. Or maybe Jaime Heckling was like, how the fuck do I get something made in Hollywood? Do I have to do a Look who's Talking four. Fine.

[David Sims]

Right. I don't know. As we've talked about, almost everyone involved in these movies is dead or incapacitated. But I guess the idea is that.

[Max Manghella]

Travolta's still out there.

[David Sims]

Travolta's still out there. The idea is that you could do Grown Up Mikey, which I have to assume is the pitch.

[Griffin Newman]

I was thinking about that because it is the obvious way to go. Yeah, but would you lose something by telling the story from a male, I think, perspective? Like, I do think there's something really beneficial in that first film.

[David Sims]

I also think that's probably why the fucking Garlic Moritz version never came about, because even if they were writing with.

[Griffin Newman]

A female lead, I think Neil Moritz has shown exemplary sensitivity.

[Max Manghella]

That's a man with taste.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Class.

[Griffin Newman]

No, look, he's made some amazing movies.

[Max Manghella]

He made.

[Griffin Newman]

He made so many classic films. I mean, I know what you did last summer is a Moritz.

[David Sims]

I'm a fan of his work. But I do think we're all agreeing that the special sauce is that the first movie in particular comes from a female perspective.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

And he did the Escape Rooms.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Where's the first one?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, well, the first Escape room is amazing.

[Max Manghella]

It is, yeah. The second one, well, the whole weird thing with the second one where there's two versions.

[David Sims]

Yes. And they're radically different.

[Max Manghella]

And one is Lore Heavy and one is not. It kind of of hamstring the whole thing. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The first one was really promising.

[Max Manghella]

First one rocks.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Max Manghella]

Look who's talking. I think there's a bit of a stigma with a Talking baby.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Max Manghella]

I think like the baby geniuses movies, the E. Trade ads, it just has such a.

[David Sims]

Which then became its own sitcom as well. Baby Bop.

[Max Manghella]

And what a sitcom it was.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Like, it has such a stigma of, like, the bottom of the barrel. Like if a baby is talking with a digital mouth.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Max Manghella]

Where. Where you're watching the worst trash about.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't know if AI Got involved now.

[Max Manghella]

I do love it when AI Gets involved.

[David Sims]

My favorite screenplay or something.

[Max Manghella]

No, to me, I think AI should be making decisions at every level. Right. Just like in the movie. Right. Design, casting, catering.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I was really surprised to hear on the. What's the last pod you guys put out? It was Jurassic Park.

[Max Manghella]

Jurassic Park, Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That you both had AI as your number one. Spielberg.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a big one.

[David Sims]

Well, no, we were saying because people have gotten upset about this and this will be a long settled thing, that when we did our ranking of the first half of his or the latter half of his career that we both Put it number one there.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, right.

[David Sims]

When we. Latter half, it's number one or amended complete filmography.

[Griffin Newman]

E.T. has to be.

[David Sims]

E.T. is my number one.

[Max Manghella]

There you go.

[Griffin Newman]

Has to be.

[David Sims]

E.T. is my number one. You still have AI as your.

[Max Manghella]

E.T. is my Number Two.

[Griffin Newman]

That's batshit.

[Max Manghella]

I'll tell you what's batshit.

[Griffin Newman]

AI.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. AI is the best. Oh, it's so good.

[Ben Hosley]

I actually pitched an idea last episode.

[Max Manghella]

The industry.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

For look who's Talking.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's hear it.

[David Sims]

Ben. Max might have some good feedback on.

[Ben Hosley]

This, so I'm thinking prequel.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, yeah, he pitched this.

[Ben Hosley]

The title Looketh who Talketh Now.

[David Sims]

Okay. He's actually punched up the title since the last set.

[Ben Hosley]

In the Renaissance.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, he's making it sound as polished as it was last time.

[Ben Hosley]

It's the same. Basically, redo this. The first movie in the Renaissance time. It's in the Renaissance.

[Griffin Newman]

So good. It'll cost a lot more.

[Max Manghella]

What you're. You are adding a good 40 mil to the budget.

[David Sims]

Just to be clear, Max, last time, his pitch was just look who stood talking or look.

[Max Manghella]

Spoke.

[David Sims]

Maybe we said, what does that mean? And he said, it's in old times. We didn't have the specifics of the Renaissance.

[Max Manghella]

It is kind of committed to a time Da Vinci being like, okay, hold still. Mona Lisa is like. And then like a baby goes like, whoa. It, like, knocks the pain over.

[David Sims]

Not to be the happiest of all time, but here's a. Here's a thought.

[Max Manghella]

Spiral Imagine, like, Tom Rothman being like, that's good. Because I'm like the baby that knocks over the pain.

[David Sims]

This is.

[Max Manghella]

I'm thinking John Lithgow for da Vinci. He's like, perfect.

[David Sims]

Lithgow would be good. Here's a genuine thought spiral I went down last night from the Book of so.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, that's very true.

[David Sims]

A thought spiral from the Book of Song.

[Max Manghella]

Who.

[David Sims]

Who was the first baby?

[Max Manghella]

Who was the first baby? Yeah, usually. I mean, are we going biblical?

[David Sims]

Well, this is my qu. I'm like, I know what the biblical answer is.

[Max Manghella]

Do you?

[David Sims]

Cain is, in theory, the first.

[Max Manghella]

Cain is the first child.

[David Sims]

Right. They had to raise Cain, which then inspired Brian De Palma and John Lithgow.

[Max Manghella]

Let's be clear. Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

So it all goes why it's called Raisin Canes.

[David Sims]

That's also why. Because that kid only ate chicken fingers.

[Max Manghella]

Yes. And was a real firecracker. And he did murder his brother when his brother took his Texas toast.

[David Sims]

Yes, this all makes sense. No, I was just in watching these two movies about pregnancy and childbirth and whatever I did. Like, by the way, that Colonel Briggs comes back as her doctor.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Don Davis does deliver the girl, but.

[David Sims]

If there was no historical precedent. And in theory, I understand he was.

[Max Manghella]

Available because they hadn't even struck the sets, probably. They were like, we're doing a sequel. Just sit right there. We'll get you a turkey sandwich. What's up?

[David Sims]

I understand the reality that Homo sapien evolved gradually over centuries. Right.

[Max Manghella]

More than centuries, my friends.

[David Sims]

Right. But. But it is crazy to just think about someone one day being like, I just. I don't. I don't feel like I ate that much.

[Max Manghella]

Right. Or like, God, these eggs really aren't. They're kind of disgusting to me. I usually love eggs.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I'm just feeling really bloated. And then to just have a baby come out of you.

[Max Manghella]

So you're saying that the first baby was born in an e. Television. I didn't know I was pregnant style.

[David Sims]

No.

[Max Manghella]

What's going on?

[David Sims]

But the reason you reminded me of this is in my insomnia Last night at 1:57am I te. I. I Googled, excuse me, first baby in the world. And AI responded. It is impossible to definitively know who the very first baby in the world was, as there were no historical records from that far back.

[Max Manghella]

Thank you, AI. Thank you for pointing that out.

[David Sims]

And then, so then I went on to Cura.com, the question and answer site, and someone responded. Chuck Sears, BBA and Management Information Systems. We have no clue. I'm assuming you mean a human base baby. I couldn't get any answers to that. I was losing my mind.

[Max Manghella]

You couldn't get answers to an impossible question?

[David Sims]

I think it's a good question. Who is the First Baby?

[Griffin Newman]

What has this got to do with the reboot? Is this your pitch for the reboot?

[Max Manghella]

Well, you're going all the way back.

[David Sims]

Well, then why aren't we making it the First Baby?

[Max Manghella]

Why would we?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, like, look who's talking, Year one.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Huh.

[David Sims]

Because that worked out really well too.

[Max Manghella]

Stocking Origins.

[Griffin Newman]

These are very, very uncommercial pictures.

[Max Manghella]

Is.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not sure, honestly, that the legacy of look who's Talking has lasted.

[David Sims]

It does feel like it is completely.

[Griffin Newman]

Forgotten, which is odd to me because it felt so massive back in the day.

[Max Manghella]

But do you think the title would stir the faintest recognition?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think it would.

[Max Manghella]

It's such a familiar phrase.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like Three Men and a Baby also, given that that was the highest grossing movie of 1987.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Has also not really stuck around. I know Zac Efron was gonna do it at one point, and that never seemed to come to fruition.

[Max Manghella]

That's correct.

[David Sims]

And then there was also a rumor of them doing a Disney legacyquel of Three Men and a Bride and bringing Danson and Gutenberg and Selleckback.

[Max Manghella]

Selleckback.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Look, the thing with Three Men and a baby is the title does all the work for you.

[David Sims]

Correct.

[Max Manghella]

You're happy as hell. There's three men, there's a baby.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Okay, what's gonna happen? I don't care. I'm involved. There's a creep, creepy ghost in the background of One Shot. Cool.

[David Sims]

Promise of the premise.

[Max Manghella]

Look who's. There's a whole urban myth where they have, like. It's a standee. It's a standee from a standee from a plot line. But it looks like there's a ghost in one scene.

[David Sims]

Like, people think, look, Three Men and a baby is haunted.

[Max Manghella]

Wow, look who's talking. It's a question to the audience.

[David Sims]

It is.

[Max Manghella]

Who's talking? I don't know. You tell me who's talking.

[Griffin Newman]

But there's no question mark.

[Max Manghella]

There is no question mark.

[David Sims]

No, it's a statement.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, look who's talking. You will look. Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's not a question.

[Max Manghella]

You will pay your $12. You will sit down and you will look to see who talks.

[David Sims]

It's not a question. It's a demand.

[Max Manghella]

And of course, well, as it turns.

[Griffin Newman]

Out, we don't really know who's talking.

[Max Manghella]

We don't really know who's talking. And he's honestly not talking. It's more an inner monologue, I guess it's kind of a lie.

[David Sims]

The question is, hey, who's listening? Can they hear him?

[Max Manghella]

Pay attention.

[Griffin Newman]

It should be called adr.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

What if a movie. What if more movies are just called look, look. Look at the screen. Watch this. Things will happen. Plots will unfold. Yeah. I have to assume within the next 10. Like over on Drana. Look who's Talking sequel in the next 10 years. I'm taking the over. I think it's going to happen. Happen. Or a reboot or a. Whatever. Year one Da Vinci experience.

[Ben Hosley]

Who's talking now? VR movie.

[David Sims]

Okay, there we go. B. Who's talking?

[Griffin Newman]

You can be the babies.

[Max Manghella]

You can talk.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Damn.

[David Sims]

I think you're getting at something, though, which is.

[Griffin Newman]

Has.

[David Sims]

Has the legacy of baby geniuses. Actually, with the legacy of look who's.

[Max Manghella]

Talking, I really think we have to mention E Trade Baby, too. Like, that was such a big one. Yes. You know, just one of those things where they just completely misunderstood what people wanted. Which was more of that. Right? Sure. People saw it once and were like, yeah, it's funny. And they were like, oh, you want the E Trade baby all the time? And they're like, I guess so.

[David Sims]

Oh, let's. Let's talk about Baby Talk briefly.

[Max Manghella]

Okay. Yeah. So the TV show Baby Talk.

[David Sims]

So the reason it's called Baby Talk and not look who's Talking is that this and the sequel were fast tracked and they realized that this was going to be on the air. Originally the plan was for this to be on the air the same time the sequel was in theaters.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

There were some production happens.

[Max Manghella]

It does end up airing after March 1991.

[David Sims]

So she was like, please change the title so it doesn't take any, like, shine off the movie.

[Max Manghella]

George Clooney is in season one as a regular.

[Griffin Newman]

He is. I watched about 12 minutes.

[Max Manghella]

How was he?

[Griffin Newman]

He seemed quite comfortable on screen. It felt like he might have a bright future.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, like the camera loved him is what you're saying.

[David Sims]

It's basically his last tv. Does he talk about Joe Biden gets er.

[Max Manghella]

Does he talk about Joe Biden a bunch?

[David Sims]

He keeps on Joe Biden, the step.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but he has the hair still.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's got the shoulder, the power.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, he had his big. Which he has in the early seasons of ER or the first season. Reason it's not. No, no, no. Because ER is not until 94. So after ER, he is on. I'm sorry, after Baby Talk he's in the other ER. He was on the other ER, but that's earlier. That's in the mid-80s. He was on a show called Body of Evidence starring Lee Horsley.

[Griffin Newman]

This is not related to the Willem Dafoe.

[Max Manghella]

Not related to the amazing wax dripping Madonna sex movie Body Evidence.

[David Sims]

Probably one of the best candle sex movies ever made.

[Max Manghella]

I think so.

[David Sims]

I think so.

[Max Manghella]

No one has sex with Lumiere, right?

[David Sims]

No, unfortunately I. I mean that was my notes round on the car reb. Yeah. And they didn't like it.

[Max Manghella]

A two season police procedural that Clooney was the second lead on. And then he gets er. He was also in a. A pilot called the Building. Written and starring.

[Griffin Newman]

Great title.

[Max Manghella]

Bonnie Hunt. The great Bonnie Hunt. And it's about a lady who's jilted by her fiance, goes to Chicago, starts a new life in an apartment building across from Wrigley Field. And it's also all about the people who live in the building. The building.

[David Sims]

I mean it's a good title.

[Griffin Newman]

What if there was a building?

[David Sims]

What if there was a building?

[Max Manghella]

What if there was a building?

[David Sims]

They tried to answer.

[Max Manghella]

They only got five episodes and that was that.

[David Sims]

The thing I was gonna say about it. Baby Talk. In Baby Talk, Baby Mikey was voiced by Tony Danza.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Who makes perfect sense.

[Max Manghella]

He is renamed Mickey. Baby Mickey in Baby Talk.

[David Sims]

Yes. George Clooney played the male lead in the Romantic.

[Max Manghella]

He was figure for the first time.

[David Sims]

But he is not the Travolta. The premise of the show is that the building is under construction and all these construction workers come and visit her. A bunch of. And Academy Award nominee William Hickey is the foreman of the construction site and George Clooney is the handsome hunky construction worker who starts visiting a bunch.

[Griffin Newman]

What's the problem? If you look at. Look who's talking. This is such a natural and organic way to spin.

[David Sims]

All these horny construction workers keep coming upstairs and like interfering with her life until she falls in love with one of them. They originally cast an actress named Connie celica. She filmed five episodes. The show was supposed to premiere in September 90 before look who's talking to. She hated the show so much she quit after five episodes. They restarted the season.

[Max Manghella]

They shot it all again with Julia.

[David Sims]

Duffy, a legitimate TV star.

[Max Manghella]

Sure. Absolutely. Famous most for Baby Talk.

[David Sims]

She does most. She went on to design Women at this. Yes. She, after the first season is lambasted critically quits the show out of shame.

[Max Manghella]

Sure.

[David Sims]

So then they fire Clooney and in season two they recast all parts and Scott Baio is the new love interest.

[Max Manghella]

Baio is the new love interest. Baio I'm seeing here described the show as a nightmare to make. So things doing well and the show concludes its run and then 18 months later, look who's Talking now comes out. When asked to comment on the film, Amy Herkeling recently said, ugh, why I can't watch it. That's all she has to say.

[David Sims]

The thing I just want to share is that the critics hated Baby Talk so much that when the new stars were cast for season two, they were basically shamed by the press. And on Wikipedia says prior to the second season beginning, the new stars of Baby Talk were interviewed about their decisions to join a show that was so loathed by reviewers. Mary Paige Keller, who replaced Julia Duff, claimed to have an indifference over the reputation of the show among critics since she had never seen the show prior to replacing Julia Duffy. Scott Baio's defense was, quote, I did a show for 11 years, happy days that never ever got a good review. So we hope you guys will love it, but we're just going to do the best we can and it's what the people like that's going to stay on. And then the show was canceled and he said it was the worst experience of his life.

[Max Manghella]

Cool.

[David Sims]

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[David Sims]

David yes, it's the summertime.

[Max Manghella]

I'm where I'm fanning myself.

[David Sims]

Fan. I'm trying to fan off myself in my white linen suit. Listen, you know what's nice on a hot summer day?

[Max Manghella]

What?

[David Sims]

A mint julep.

[Max Manghella]

That's true.

[David Sims]

Or mint lemonade.

[Max Manghella]

Refreshing.

[David Sims]

But what about a mint mobile?

[Max Manghella]

Look. What Getting a summer bod out. Getting a savings bod in.

[David Sims]

Look at my lean savings bod.

[Max Manghella]

A skimpy wireless bill.

[David Sims]

Yeah, maybe fat wallet. Maybe a white linen suit with cutoff sleeves.

[Max Manghella]

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[David Sims]

What are you talking about? My name is Griffin Newman. I'm the co host of this podcast. You know, I love to burn off these summer months going around in my fanboat doing my own impromptu earth sets swamp tours. And with some rival service providers, you're losing service. Your texts are dropping off, your images aren't going through. People aren't reacting to the memes. But not with Mint Mobile.

[Max Manghella]

You can get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. So this year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get your summer savings and shop premium wireless wireless [e-mail] check. That's mintmobile.com check. Upfront payment of $45 for three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for the first three months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Box office game, guys. This film came out December 14, 1990. Mistake. When you see what its competition was. It's opening number two at the box office. $8 million. Not bad, but not great. Number one has been in release for five weeks. It's still number one. It's the family movie of the year.

[David Sims]

It's the movie of the year in 1904.

[Max Manghella]

It's one of the movies of the decade.

[David Sims]

Is it the motion picture Home Alone?

[Max Manghella]

Home Alone, Yeah.

[David Sims]

That was pretty bad timing on their part.

[Max Manghella]

Yep. You like Home Alone?

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Max Manghella]

Wow. Not a Home Alone guy.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not a. It's not an important movie.

[David Sims]

He hits guys in the face the same way.

[Max Manghella]

I also, I mean, I grew up with it, but it was not an on repeat movie for sure. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But Home Alone too. I have a much softer spot for.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Because we've all been lost in New York. Yeah, we all have in a way.

[David Sims]

In a way.

[Max Manghella]

Max said that very ruefully.

[David Sims]

And I've. And I've been found in New York as well.

[Max Manghella]

Well, that's true.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Found myself and our favorite actors in it.

[David Sims]

Donald Trump.

[Max Manghella]

That's right. Home Alone. It's number one. It's a big smash hit. No, I meant Brenda Fricker, obviously.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that. That actually is maybe the single worst movie this could have opened against.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, exactly.

[David Sims]

Just like talk about all of their shine being taken.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, it's Being just melted by Home Alone.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

So who look who's talking to is making it to number two. Number three. It's a film we've covered on the show. It's a great film. It's just beginning its run. It's in its second week, but I think it's just expanded wide.

[David Sims]

Ish.

[Max Manghella]

To about a thousand screens. One of your favorite directors. An oddball film.

[David Sims]

It's a main feed. Is it Edward Scissorhands?

[Max Manghella]

Edward Scissorhands.

[David Sims]

Edward Scissorhands.

[Max Manghella]

You like that one, Max?

[Griffin Newman]

Love that movie.

[Max Manghella]

It's good.

[Griffin Newman]

Masterpiece.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Okay, so Edward Scissors Hands, Number 4 is a film we've covered on this show.

[David Sims]

Show. Okay.

[Max Manghella]

We're really getting into almost all movies.

[David Sims]

On this show here. At this point, we're very close to having covered all movies.

[Max Manghella]

This film wins best picture in 1990. It's been out for six weeks.

[David Sims]

Okay, well, Silence of the Lambs wins in 91.

[Max Manghella]

It sure does.

[David Sims]

We've covered this.

[Max Manghella]

We sure have.

[David Sims]

And it's a Best Picture winner.

[Max Manghella]

That's right.

[David Sims]

It's not Terms of Endearment.

[Max Manghella]

No. No.

[Griffin Newman]

Driving Miss Days.

[Max Manghella]

Not Driving Miss Days.

[David Sims]

That would have 89.

[Max Manghella]

You guys are circling this movie.

[David Sims]

I know.

[Griffin Newman]

Raymond.

[Max Manghella]

Not remand. That's like 88.

[David Sims]

We haven't covered that. And Unforgiven signing. Oh, it's Dances With Wolves.

[Max Manghella]

Dances With Wolves.

[David Sims]

There we go.

[Max Manghella]

It's been out for six weeks. It's made only $38 million. So it's just beginning a long and successful box office run. Kevin Costner's Dances With Wolves. Pretty good. Max, do you care about Dances With Wolves?

[Griffin Newman]

I've only seen Dances with Wolves on a plane at the time of release. Wow.

[Max Manghella]

Very young.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Yeah. So I haven't.

[Max Manghella]

Didn't make a big.

[Griffin Newman]

I haven't danced with the wolves again.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Number five at the box office. Will we ever cover this? We debate this director a lot because he had a strong first half.

[David Sims]

Barry Levinson.

[Max Manghella]

Nope.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Max Manghella]

Weak second.

[David Sims]

Rob Reiner.

[Max Manghella]

Rob Reiner. It's one of his better movies.

[David Sims]

It's not Few Good Men.

[Max Manghella]

No. Although that one is also good.

[David Sims]

This would have been right before that.

[Griffin Newman]

Misery.

[Max Manghella]

Misery, yeah. Which rocks. Misery's great.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Oscar winner. Of course.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Do you like Misery?

[Griffin Newman]

I've never seen Misery.

[Max Manghella]

It's really good.

[Griffin Newman]

Isn't that crazy? I've never seen it.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. I don't think it's crazy because the premise sounds small.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Max Manghella]

And like, it's kind of one of those things where you're like, well, I get it. I've. I get what that is. Because the character that, like, I feel like I've seen Misery. But then when you watch Misery, you're like, this is good.

[Griffin Newman]

I saw Kathy Bates being interviewed yesterday while we're on the topic of Misery. And she looks so beautiful. Beautiful.

[Max Manghella]

She's a gorgeous woman.

[David Sims]

Yeah, she's Matlock now.

[Max Manghella]

And now she's Matlock.

[David Sims]

She can do anything.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, she's really.

[David Sims]

Have you ever seen Taking off, the Milos Foreman film?

[Griffin Newman]

I've not. This first time hearing about it, which.

[David Sims]

I believe is her first screen credit.

[Max Manghella]

And I think it might be Foreman's first American film.

[David Sims]

I think that's right. It's Buck Henry and Lynn Carlin from Cassavetes. Faces. Wow are the two leads. And it's like two upper middle class New York parents whose daughter goes missing. And it's basically a night of them freaking out, waiting for their daughter to return home. And it turns out the daughter has run off to audition for an open casting call for a play with a bunch of hippie musicians. Or maybe it's some. Maybe it's not a play. Anyway, Kathy Bates is in it doing an unbroken musical performance. She like sings a song while playing guitar for like four minutes and is smokin hot. And she's credited under some other name.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Because she was barely. It's her first appearance, I think.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. I don't know.

[David Sims]

Really cool. Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Number six at the box office new this week is a bit of a 90s classic.

[David Sims]

Sorry, her name is Bobo Bates.

[Max Manghella]

Great is Richard Benjamin's Mermaids with.

[David Sims]

That's a movie I've never seen.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a. That's a big movie for me.

[Max Manghella]

That's a great.

[Griffin Newman]

Because the sound, the soundtrack was ubiquitous.

[Max Manghella]

It stars who I consider to be the big three share. Bob Hoskins and Winona Ryder and Christina Ricci. Ricci. Very young Ricci in there. She's really good. Make a big four.

[David Sims]

Make it a big four.

[Max Manghella]

Sure. Fair enough. I just think it's funny that it's like, who shall we pair with? Cher, the statuesque pop singer. Perhaps a five, three British burly man. And you watch the movie and you're like, I love it.

[David Sims]

They work.

[Max Manghella]

This is great. Number seven at the box office is the Rookie. One of the more crass films in Clint Eastwood's filmography.

[David Sims]

Is that him and Sheen? Okay.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. There's a lot of rookies out there. Of course, because there's later Dennis Quaid, the Rookie and then there was later Nathan fillion. With the TVs.

[David Sims]

The rookie. Rookie of the year.

[Max Manghella]

There was a rookie of the year.

[David Sims]

There was.

[Max Manghella]

On screen. And every year in every sport, there is also a rookie of the year. Yeah, number eight at the box office. This is what I wanted to get to is a little film that's been out for a month called Three Men and a Little Lady.

[David Sims]

Wow. What?

[Max Manghella]

So both unwanted sequels were being dumped on audiences.

[Griffin Newman]

That is really interesting. I had no idea.

[Max Manghella]

And then number nine at the box office is the new this week, the Sidney Pollock film Havana. Oh, Redford.

[Griffin Newman]

I've always wanted to watch Havana and Lena Olin. That one really missed.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, it really missed. I've never seen it. It just has one of those posters that kind of like, who wants to see this movie? Where it's just like leather faces back. I mean, look at Redford. It looks like you could draw roads on his face.

[David Sims]

What is the premise of the movie?

[Max Manghella]

What if he went to Havana?

[David Sims]

An American professional gambler who decides to visit Havana to gamble on the eve of the Cuban Revolution.

[Max Manghella]

Havana.

[David Sims]

So it's like Dirty Dancing, Havana Nights where it's like.

[Max Manghella]

It's a lot like Dirty Dancing.

[David Sims]

A dance competition happened on the eve of the Cuban Revolution.

[Max Manghella]

Does the Roomba with Romula, Garry. In this movie, number 10 at the box office is Predator 2. Okay, great movie.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of these movies feel like they're made in completely different time period.

[Max Manghella]

Right, well, expand on that because I agree with you.

[Griffin Newman]

The idea that Edward Scissorhands exist in the same universe as. Look who's talking to a film that has the aesthetic qualities.

[David Sims]

This is a real talk.

[Max Manghella]

You can imagine walking into Edward Scissorhands and being like, whoa, what the fuck is this? Compared to the drivel they're being served on.

[David Sims]

The opposite of what we were talking about, where we're like a no notes movie. That is a. This guy made Batman. We're not going to tell him that is like a complete vision. And then Dances with Wolves is like this lunatic somehow got his way and convinced everyone to let him make a three and a half hour epic about how he is the great one.

[Max Manghella]

Yes. Yeah, maybe I got to see Havana. The whole thing with Sidney Pollock because he's made movies I liked. But. But Sidney Pollock is guilty of making a boring movie. Like he's done it.

[David Sims]

Sidney Pollock has made like eight movies that don't exist.

[Max Manghella]

Exactly. So I love the Firm, which is unhinged. But I have a feeling Havana might.

[David Sims]

Be not unhinged, but it's also made many undeniable masterpieces.

[Max Manghella]

Yes. He's made great movies and he was.

[David Sims]

A good friend many times before. Is maybe my favorite actor.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, he's just an amazing actor.

[Max Manghella]

If Pollock is swinging in.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

It's. It's bucks. Big bucks.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm with you, Griffin.

[David Sims]

If I could have any actor's career, it would be Sidney Pollock over the age of 50.

[Max Manghella]

If I could have any actor's chest hair, it'd be those. Those gray forests sprouting on Pollock's chest.

[David Sims]

Your father was producing partners with him.

[Griffin Newman]

They had a company together for a long time.

[Max Manghella]

Is a producer on the Interpreter? Do I want to. Am I.

[Griffin Newman]

He is a producer on the Interpreter, a movie that had a very normal product production. Nothing strange happened at all during the Interpreter.

[Max Manghella]

I wish I knew what you were talking about because the movie's vanished from memory.

[David Sims]

Only someone could interpret that.

[Griffin Newman]

Or Random Hearts, which also was a really smooth movie.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And then they're both producers on Margaret and infamously, they are both producers like.

[Max Manghella]

Margaret the Interpreter, Penn is in. And Random Hearts, Harrison Ford is in. And those guys are not grumpy at all. So I can't imagine there were any troubles there.

[David Sims]

No, neither of those guys has.

[Griffin Newman]

That was, you know, Sidney was operating at sort of the end of an era where you would bring in those big guys to do passes on the script. And it's like. Yeah, there's like the Five. The big Five.

[Max Manghella]

You're like your Robert Townes. Like, who are you thinking of?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm thinking more Zelien Frank. You know, these guys that are just getting inordinate amounts of money to do a few days work.

[Max Manghella]

Right. And I think the, you know, this should happen. Right. Or whatever. Like whatever it is. They do.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. But there was an investment in the screenplay that does. Doesn't quite exist anymore.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Whether that was the right way to go about it, I don't. I don't know. But there was a real respect for.

[David Sims]

There was a feeling of like, if we've hired a legitimate director and legitimate stars onto something that could be a programmer.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

We owe it to everyone to make it a little more literate.

[Max Manghella]

Well, like. And Random Hearts is a great example of, like, that it's a movie that doesn't exist anymore.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Max Manghella]

No one remembers that movie despite it having Harrison Ford. Ford being a Sydney Pollock film. It's based on a bestseller. A list Town through the. You know, like at every level of it. Right. You know, ninety million dollar movie.

[David Sims]

Right. And like ninety million dollars because Harrison Ford wanted to do it. So Then probably we got to do it.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

A big budget movie. Right.

[Max Manghella]

I think. And then you're like, what's it about? And it's like a cop thinks a congresswoman's spouse who died in a plane crash was cheating on her with his spouse who.

[Griffin Newman]

Basically, the same premise as the film Bounce.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

Another film that audiences were like, no tickets.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

They walked up to this ticket booth and they were like, I want to make it clear I won't be buying any tickets to Bounce.

[David Sims]

Can I buy a ticket just to refund it?

[Max Manghella]

I.

[David Sims]

But the Pollock thing is so fascinating because I feel like his.

[Max Manghella]

But it's like, right. Two cucks fall for each other.

[David Sims]

Other.

[Max Manghella]

Sorry. Sorry to be, you know, to be crass, but the. The. The Cuckold did fall for each other.

[David Sims]

Well, I wouldn't.

[Griffin Newman]

You don't want. In the Mood for Love and go like, look at these two cucks.

[David Sims]

A bit of a I wouldn't word as a cuck thing. I just think it's more that, like, the.

[Max Manghella]

They're united by the premise, the idea that both of their partners cheated on each other.

[David Sims]

I just remember seeing the trailer at some movie my dad took me to and him going, that's going to be a big hit.

[Max Manghella]

Max's face when I said two Cucks.

[David Sims]

He looked disgusting.

[Max Manghella]

I wish people could have seen it. Yeah.

[David Sims]

My dad was like, that's gonna be a big hit.

[Max Manghella]

Right?

[David Sims]

And I was like, why? And he went, because Harrison Ford's in it. And people will see whatever. Harrison Ford. Which was largely true, but that one bomb.

[Max Manghella]

Well, and it's. It's in the midst of his tough late night with Sabrina and Devil Zone. And six spoke to.

[David Sims]

The premise of that movie was so unappetizing to be like, here are two sad people in mourning because their spouses died, and then they realized that also their spouses were cheating on them.

[Max Manghella]

Right.

[David Sims]

So they're at, like, kind of two stages of grief.

[Max Manghella]

It's 133 minutes long.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a lot of other stuff going on, though, because I did watch it recently for the first time, and I was like, there's a whole procedural element.

[David Sims]

Are they trying to solve, like, the crash?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, there's some. There's some funky stuff. And Kristin's character is a politician, and there's some stuff going on there. Yeah. It's not as straightforward as Bounce, which I keep bringing up for some reason.

[Max Manghella]

Now, Bounce is the one with Affleck and Paltrow, and it's a Don Roose film.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a Don Russ movie.

[Max Manghella]

I love Don Ruse.

[Griffin Newman]

That's like quintessential 90s mirror.

[Max Manghella]

Max Miramax, right? Exactly. And it's not based on anything. Rus wrote it himself. But it's also kind of downbeat. It's like a sort of a sad romance.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's a bit melancholy. It has a fantastic on set making of documentary on the Bounce dvd.

[Max Manghella]

That's some kind of unhinged shit that people don't know about.

[David Sims]

Max, you realize how much of a.

[Max Manghella]

Dork who's a successful professional in this business. We called show and yet will reveal things like I watch the Bounce DVD special features and have an opinion on it.

[David Sims]

I was trying to watch look who's talking to on itunes and itunes started bugging out on me and I was like, is this a wi fi problem?

[Max Manghella]

And then I was like, no, no, truly.

[David Sims]

I put on other mov movies and everything else was working that wouldn't. So I broke out my look who's talking to full screen dvd the only way you can watch the movie on physical media. And I was like, I wonder what the special features are like on this. And they had two bonus trailers.

[Max Manghella]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Baby geniuses. And one other movie I'm forgetting. But then the other special feature, which was something we were talking about in our news and deals group text the other day. David, Talent files.

[Max Manghella]

Oh, yes.

[David Sims]

There's just like a screen slideshow. You can go through the key figures on the movie and it just lists fun facts and credits.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like an Amazon X ray basically.

[Ben Hosley]

Right?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Talent files. Just John Travolta standing like this with his arms out and it just lists his birthday and where he was born.

[Max Manghella]

With his arms out like an action figure.

[David Sims]

Truly. Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Like show me on that. On the John Travolta where he finished.

[Griffin Newman]

The box office game.

[Max Manghella]

We did. We did all 10. I'm sorry, if you want me to repeat them. It was home alone. Look who's talking to Edward Scissorhands. D says Dance with wolves, misery mermaids, rookie three men and a little lady Havana and predator two.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Max Manghella]

Number 11 is child's play too. If that lights your fire.

[David Sims]

The the best of the child play.

[Griffin Newman]

Did you guys see Better man?

[David Sims]

Yes, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean it's quite.

[Max Manghella]

Again, you and I are the same age.

[Griffin Newman]

We are.

[Max Manghella]

Spent a lot of time in England.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, mate.

[Max Manghella]

Was Robbie important to you as a sort of 11 year old or were you too cool for Robbie?

[Griffin Newman]

I wasn't too cool for Robbie. As. As you know, knowing me, I'm not cool at all. No. I definitely wasn't too cool for Robbie. I would say that watching Better Men, I didn't realize some of the cultural stuff that he was connected to. I completely forgotten his relationship with Nicole Appleton.

[Max Manghella]

I think a lot of people did every.

[Griffin Newman]

No. So Nicole Appleton. Griffin, if you were a teenage boy.

[Max Manghella]

In London, All Saints was important to you.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I went to an All Saints concert. But also the Appleton sisters. Appleton sisters were definitely on the bedroom wall.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Probably in lieu of Kirstie Alley's headshot.

[Max Manghella]

All Saints was an incredible British girl.

[David Sims]

Group familiar with all. I don't understand that had two Appleton sisters firsthand, how culturally impactful they were.

[Max Manghella]

Neither Appleton sister seemed to make much artistic contribution to All Saints. Like, it was almost all. Shazne Lewis, I think was the. The songwriting, the singing. The Appletons were just kind of there too. But, boy, were they babes.

[David Sims]

This is.

[Griffin Newman]

They were babes.

[David Sims]

When I was trying to make the argument for why that film was great and worth seeing to American people who were just like, I've never even heard of Robbie Williams. I don't give a. I'm like, this movie's better. Actually, the less you know, because, like, the Gallagher twist at the end is mindboggling. If it's not something you grew up reading in the tabloids.

[Max Manghella]

Better Man. Great.

[Griffin Newman]

I really like that film. If you haven't seen it, check it out. It's a. It's an accomplishment. And it's. And it's. It's. It's so indicative, I think, of the time that we're living in that a movie with that much work put into it and it's. That accomplished.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Has zero cultural impact beyond being in.

[Max Manghella]

Sort of instant cult hit.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. And there are certain other movies that are doing well at the box office right now which will be left unnamed, which lack, I would say, some of the same artistic.

[Max Manghella]

There's piglins, Chicken jockeys. We have chicken jockeys. I don't know what you're talking about.

[David Sims]

I just think Better man or what.

[Max Manghella]

About A King of Kings? I showed you the clip of Pierce Pals. He's like, why not a film about Jesus?

[Griffin Newman]

Dudes? We haven't talked about Shadow league, but I 100% did not know that movie existed.

[Max Manghella]

Are we allowed to talk about Shadow League?

[Griffin Newman]

I think probably the first rule of.

[David Sims]

Shadow League is we can't talk about Shadow League.

[Max Manghella]

But it's fun to mention it.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

No, Ben, you can keep the reference in. It's just people can tear their hair wondering what it means to build on.

[David Sims]

What you said Max. What I found dispiriting was not just that Better man was kind of ignored, but it was immediately turned into a headline of why would they ever make up this movie? That there was this sort of celebrating about how hard it bombed of like, this is so stupid. They spent this much money on a guy we've never heard of. And I just want to keep yelling like, guys, the movie is good.

[Max Manghella]

Right? Right. Don't worry. Yes. Like, even if you want to go learn about him, that's fine. Just. Just enjoy the movie.

[David Sims]

But people were treating the release of that movie like it was the fyre festival collapsing.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I agree with you that people were so, like dancing on the grave.

[Max Manghella]

What's so nightmarish to me about a lot of industry reporting now with Sinners, which looks like it's open well, which is good news.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Max Manghella]

But these pieces being written before its release where it's like, what were they thinking giving acclaimed director Ryan Coogler and like well known actor Michael B. Jordan a budget for a film that people love? These fools like Mike DeLuca, it's like they're acting like he's like at the casino throwing money around, where I'm like, it's a fairly reasonable package.

[David Sims]

This is the same back and forth between like writing constantly about how much David Zaslav sucks. Correct?

[Max Manghella]

Sure.

[David Sims]

And then being angry every time, like an artistically interesting film is greenlit under his watch. And being like, these idiots. This shit's gonna bomb.

[Griffin Newman]

Brian Coogler may be the most box office proof.

[David Sims]

Young Spielberg.

[Max Manghella]

He's like, hey, can I have $90 million to make a vampire movie with.

[David Sims]

My like, close established movie star?

[Max Manghella]

And everyone's like, wow, Warner Brothers is really writing some checks they can't cash. I'm just, just like, can nothing happen? Is nothing allowed?

[David Sims]

We're also like recording this.

[Max Manghella]

I'm sorry that I'm so mad about this. When it seems like Sinners will do just fine.

[David Sims]

We're recording this the day that Sinners is coming out. And deadlines like Thursday previews were good, but we all know the break even point for this movie. And I'm like, let us shut the up.

[Max Manghella]

It's like it only got 99% on rotten tomatoes. Will that be enough? What do they want? What? What do they want?

[David Sims]

It's now maybe over indexing to a $50 million weekend, but will it happens?

[Max Manghella]

Will be arrested watching this movie. So it seems like a bo me shut the up.

[David Sims]

Our world is collapsing. Let good movies exist. This is a victory. If they Sneak through the system.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, what was the other highest grossing original movie? Reason was nope. Wasn't it?

[David Sims]

Yes, yes. They're coming it to nope.

[Max Manghella]

They're copying it to nope. Which did great.

[Griffin Newman]

Which did great too. And it's like nobody draws any conclusions from any of this.

[Max Manghella]

No, right. And nope is it's like they cost the same amount of money open to the. Probably the same amount of money made. Probably. You know what I mean? I never was like, yeah, that's a one off though. That'll never happen again. I'm like, well, not if you don't let it.

[David Sims]

Every trade is like, look, we all know the one conclusive lesson from the box office in 2025 is that any movie with Chicken Jockey will be a hit. We should all be making chicken jockeys.

[Max Manghella]

Mike Lee's Chicken Jockey is approaching.

[Griffin Newman]

I wonder what's going on. I have been wondering about the Minecraft 2 negotiations.

[David Sims]

Oh yeah, they must be insane because.

[Griffin Newman]

They, they got them over the fucking. I mean, that is, you could just.

[Max Manghella]

Ask for like seriously, Mojang, only green M&Ms. Right? Well, Mojang should be like. So it's going to be a courthouse musical. We're thinking Lady Gaga. Like, they should just make Faliadu again. Minecraft. Falaya do.

[David Sims]

Here's who I would love to be right now. Jack Black.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Sitting back going, hey, Warner Brothers, I'd love to hear you argue why I'm not important to the success of the second Minecraft movie.

[Max Manghella]

Right, right.

[David Sims]

Which by the way, they tried to do that with goosebumps. They were like, we don't need to pay you. We'll make goosebumps too. For half as much money. They test screened it. Kids first note, where the is Jack?

[Max Manghella]

Where is President of America? Jack?

[David Sims]

They like paid him $2 million to come in and do reshoots for two seasons.

[Griffin Newman]

We have all been collectively naive about the prowess of this actor. I've always loved Jack.

[David Sims]

Always loved.

[Griffin Newman]

I will confess, I didn't really put it all together until this, this movie. It was like, oh, wait, it was always is open.

[David Sims]

Here's what's wild. You step back and you like. He not only has conclusively been the biggest family star, like family movie star for 25 straight years. Kind of uncontested without dips. Like, his bombs are not family movies.

[Max Manghella]

Right?

[David Sims]

His bombs.

[Max Manghella]

Something like clock in the walls.

[David Sims]

Like does fine, does 80 million domestic or whatever. Right. Beyond that, that was all bland.

[Griffin Newman]

Check. His kids go nuts.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Kate the Great. Right? And that was obviously Roth. The Roth fans were showing up for.

[David Sims]

But you were like, kind of. No one has had a run that big.

[Max Manghella]

No, he's unbeatable.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, the Jumanji movies made just unspeakable amounts of money.

[David Sims]

Two Jumanjis, four Kung Fu Pandas.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, you're right.

[David Sims]

Two Goosebumps. One house with a clock in its walls.

[Max Manghella]

Just the one so far.

[David Sims]

Shark Tale, A School of Rock. Minecraft School of Rock. Nacho Libre was also a hit hit.

[Max Manghella]

Nacho Libre did well, considering it's Nacho Libre. His only real flop is Gulliver's Travels, which still, like, made money. Made money in, like, Moldova or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

So Emily Blunt had to pull out of Iron Man 2. Right.

[Max Manghella]

For that one.

[Griffin Newman]

That's sort of the legacy of Go.

[Max Manghella]

To be clear, this is what talking with Max is usually like. He was pretty locked in for the look who's talking to discussion. Mostly it's kind of right. Bouncing from Hollywood ephemera, you know, and box office data.

[Griffin Newman]

I have adhd. Could you tell. Was that. Was that obvious from doing a podcast with.

[Max Manghella]

This whole podcast has adhd, but this.

[David Sims]

Is how we became friends.

[Max Manghella]

Just undiagnosed.

[David Sims]

Is you basically reaching out to us and being like, my brain sadly works the same way.

[Max Manghella]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Has all of these things rattling around.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, there is something about. As I brought this up at the top of the podcast, I mean, David and I are basically same age, grew up in the same school system at the same time. Probably saw all of these movies in the same theaters, probably theater.

[Max Manghella]

Were you?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I mean, like, Finchley Road 02.

[Max Manghella]

I went to the Muscle Holoden. I was more of a Hollywood Hollowayodian boy. You lived in my.

[Griffin Newman]

I also loved. No, I was a hamster boy, but I also love. I love that Odeon, too. The whole. Yeah. I mean, these are.

[Max Manghella]

I mean, I go to the Camden Odian a lot. Halloween Odian was my main Camden.

[Griffin Newman]

Odin was a bit grossy.

[Max Manghella]

It was very grotty. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But we have a. We have a lot of shared history. And then, Griffin, I feel like we have an insane amount of shared history because your father. Filmmaker.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Mother, nurse. Not born here, but sort of intellectual, slightly eccentric.

[David Sims]

And I think that thing of, like, us independently becoming film nerds and then having a parent who could be like, if you're interested in this, I can explain this shit to you.

[Max Manghella]

Right. And I can kind of. I can tell you some things. Right. I can kind of provide context. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So I feel deeply connected to this podcast on a spiritual level. And as you know, very Grateful for its existence.

[Max Manghella]

Would you go to the HMV that was in, like, the top by the Hampstead station? Yeah, I spent like half my life there.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Just because that would be the thing where you go in and be like, I've got ten pounds. I'm walking out of here with one to two CDs, like. So I got to sound.

[Griffin Newman]

Not to sound like John Travolta sneaking his children into Total Recall. But there was a great trick you could do that HMV, which is if you opened your CDs from the left side and not the right side, you could keep the tags on. Go ahead, copy the cd, take it back, get it returned.

[Max Manghella]

You could burn the cd.

[Griffin Newman]

I went there many times and I don't think I ever spent a dollar.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Or a pound.

[Max Manghella]

Or a pound? Yes. Come on.

[Griffin Newman]

The UK or a euro? What else were your haunts, David, as a youngin?

[David Sims]

Well, pound. Poundland. Do you go to Poundland?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we pound it out.

[Max Manghella]

No, I only went to Poundland at university when I had no money and a place like Poundland.

[Griffin Newman]

Did he go?

[Max Manghella]

I have been to Cockfoster. Have you ever been to Cockbusters?

[Griffin Newman]

I've never been, but it makes me laugh every time.

[Max Manghella]

It's always funny. If you get out there, there's a big woods you can go into. I went there once.

[Griffin Newman]

And the next station is Cockfosters.

[Max Manghella]

This is a train to Cockfosters. They do. Hopefully they really hit it. What were my haunts? Oh, you know the Internet cafe on. On Regent Street? No, I don't know. I mean, what was my life back then? I went to Rowan. Do you ever go to Rowan's?

[Griffin Newman]

I didn't.

[Max Manghella]

The bowling alley in Finchley Fin Park. No, but I think all the time it was a bowling alley. You could pay 50 pence to enter.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Max Manghella]

You had to give them some money to get in there. It was a bowling alley. There's a big bar where you could get food and you're 13 years old. Like, it's perfect. And there was a giant arcade, like, you know, arcade cabinets.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, at the bowling alley. Do you ever go to the Acton Warner Brothers Theater?

[Max Manghella]

No way. I mean, when would I have ever been an Acton?

[Griffin Newman]

Because I would go to that also had, like, a bowling alley and that sounds awesome.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Saw lots of important movies there. Daylight, Great movie.

[Max Manghella]

I saw it on plane.

[Griffin Newman]

But great, really good movie. And the Fifth Element I saw twice at that theater.

[Max Manghella]

Sure, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I do remember.

[Max Manghella]

Were you in acting? Because, like, the BBC was over there.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, BBC. No, I don't know, I think I just went because it was a place you could see daylight. I do. I think, Griffin, you're like this as well. I don't remember anything in my life. I can't remember what I did yesterday. I remember exactly where I saw every single.

[Max Manghella]

Me too. That is unfortunately a sickness of mine as well. I would go to Notting Hill and get. Go to the computer exchange which was right outside the station and spend hours there. Like, remember when before the Internet you just had to go to a store and just like. It's like, I'm just gonna be in the fucking record store all day because I can buy one record.

[David Sims]

I spent half of high school at the version megastore that was my version of the hmv.

[Max Manghella]

Look, when I came to America, I would go to a megastoregastores.

[David Sims]

I just wanna, I'm not looking for a medal, but I just want to call out how I'm not even doing the bit of being annoyed that I can't do the bit. I just let you guys.

[Griffin Newman]

I was pretty proud of you, Griffin. I was gonna.

[David Sims]

Eight minutes. I wasn't scratching myself. Myself. I wasn't biting my tongue. I just let you guys talk about local UK haunts.

[Max Manghella]

Now you're not an Arsenal fan, right?

[Griffin Newman]

No, I'm not. We really should have.

[Max Manghella]

We should talk.

[Griffin Newman]

We should avoid. We should avoid football as a subject.

[Max Manghella]

You didn't grow up going to football games or.

[Griffin Newman]

I did. No, I, I. And I am a die hard football fan. But the. If I get into explaining who I support.

[Max Manghella]

I know who you are now and we've gotten into it.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's not. Yeah, let's not talk about, about it. I will.

[Max Manghella]

I'm just trying to think of other things I did in England besides like go to school. Just mostly.

[Griffin Newman]

Where did you go to school?

[Max Manghella]

Cls.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, right. City of London. I am working with a filmmaker right now. I think went to City of London. Mickey down, huh? Must have been younger than me. Who's one of the creatives of industry. I'm pretty sure he was a city boy as well. Hey, probably your age, you know, might have been there at a similar time.

[Max Manghella]

It was a classic. He's a couple years younger than me. Maybe it's a classic. My parents were like, you got in like. Yeah, you know what I mean? Where it was like. And I later I asked, what do you mean? It was a test school and I, I got us. I got a scholarship. Like, I got money and like my parents were like, basically they were kind of like, I mean Take the test, you know. But they, they basically were surprised. You know, they were quite surprised. And I remember later I asked my teacher, God bless him, Mr. Phillipson, I believe he's now retired. Tired like because he interviewed me. He was my interview. I remember I was like, oh, you know, do you remember your interview? He was like, yep, your math score was right on the line. And it was one of those, like, if he could. If we like him in the interview. Well, you know, then we'll think about it. So he did tell me that. I. I just.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, did you have an American accent?

[Max Manghella]

I did.

[Griffin Newman]

Was that tough for you? Yes. Yeah, I can imagine that was hard.

[Max Manghella]

Especially if you remember in the early 2000s, America's rep in the UK was a little dodgy.

[David Sims]

Did. Did the schoolboys do the reverse version of the bit to you? Did they do like. Oh, really? Did you grow up in New York?

[Max Manghella]

No, they didn't really do that. No. I just got a lot of.

[David Sims]

Doesn't sound like they were very funny.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, they weren't that creative. I mean George W. Bush was president then we went into Iraq and Britain had, you know, went into Iraq too. You know what I mean? Like America was just very unpopular turn out.

[David Sims]

Let me check my notes here quickly.

[Max Manghella]

A. I'm seeing here that George Bush is standing behind a sign that says mission accomplished. So I assume it went crazy.

[David Sims]

Close the book on that one.

[Max Manghella]

No, I got some. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It was fine. It was like my life. My life was that I was the weirdo.

[Griffin Newman]

You seem to have a positive.

[Max Manghella]

I'm a pretty positive fella.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Memory of it, right. When you talk about. When you have to talk about your time in every episode because it's forced upon.

[Max Manghella]

Given that I went to a uniform school that was all boys that was like this kind of posh school. Not as posh as some, you know, like your western pointing at me by the high gates. I don't know where you went.

[David Sims]

This by the way, just feels like we're just having a catch up conversation. This is usually go until I get.

[Max Manghella]

I gotta go. Yeah, yeah. You. Where did you go to school? You went to St. Anthony's I know that I did.

[Griffin Newman]

And then I went to ucs.

[Max Manghella]

Oh sure. Ucs always seem cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Ucs, the school of Alex Garland.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, there you go. Did they have the, the pinstripes?

[Griffin Newman]

We had horrific maroon and black stripes.

[Max Manghella]

It was one of those things was just like mug me. Just this like glaring simple. Because I remember I wore black and I was kind of like, our uniform is boring. And my mom was like, no, no, no. Like, that's good. You don't want to be like, advert dicing.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, it was a hideous uniform.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Cls. Yeah. It was a good school. I had good teachers. I. I have a lot of love for some of my teachers.

[Griffin Newman]

This is really interesting, I think, to a lot of your listeners who tuned.

[David Sims]

In to hear about people's favorite thing or this is the moment where everyone unsubscribes.

[Max Manghella]

And I fell in love with the movies more than anywhere else in London. And we all going to the Halloway Odin and to the screen on the hill and to the Notting Hill Gate and the, you know, Every man and the. The Phoenix and Finchley. Did you ever go to the pH? That's a great theater. And I believe that's still going strong.

[Griffin Newman]

Good. I hope so.

[Max Manghella]

Go check it out.

[David Sims]

Max, is there anything you want to plug London?

[Griffin Newman]

Nothing. I really want to plug. I want to plug this podcast. I'm so thrilled to be on it. I'm glad we did it finally. I will return with Jamie Bell, my much more charismatic cohort, and either we'll revise or figure out something else.

[David Sims]

Yes, absolutely.

[Max Manghella]

You're in the Handmaid's Tale. That's in its final season.

[Griffin Newman]

It's, I think, airing now.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah, it's airing now. I think. I think this is the last season. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

I'll confess, I don't know what your character's up to anymore, but I assume.

[Griffin Newman]

It'S all good things. You and me both, my love. I couldn't tell you what he's up to, but I shot it.

[David Sims]

And you're filming industry right now.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm filming.

[Max Manghella]

Right. You're in C3 of industry four. Four.

[Griffin Newman]

We're season four of industry. Check out Shell, which will be out later this year some point.

[Max Manghella]

It will be excited to see who's got Shell. Who. Who picked up Shell.

[Griffin Newman]

You can't know if I can say that, but it'll. It'll.

[Max Manghella]

Now, is Kit Harrington still in industry or is he.

[Griffin Newman]

He is, he's. And yes. Yes.

[Max Manghella]

Is he a good lad? Is he a fun hanging. One of.

[Griffin Newman]

One of the nicest people I've ever met.

[Max Manghella]

He's very small, very little.

[Griffin Newman]

He's. Well, look, I'm not. I'm not a massively sure either. No, it's an amazing group of people. It's been. I love a lot of fun.

[David Sims]

I love that show.

[Max Manghella]

I think it's great. Ooh, Kieran. Shifka's in this season I'm seeing here. And Cal Penn. Wow. Claire Forlani. I have so many questions.

[Griffin Newman]

I got to work with Claire Forlani the other day. I will just finish with this. And had no idea that she was in the show or going to be on set. And that's a big fucking deal.

[Max Manghella]

Yeah. Me, Joe Black.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, I lost my mind. And I tried to explain to her that Meat Joe Black is like a really important film, I think, to basically men who were 14 at the time that Me Too Black was released. It is a movie that has an insane relevance to teen people who are just teenage boys. When that film came out, I don't know why.

[Max Manghella]

What are you talking about? I thought that movie just didn't do well.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think she's conscious of the fact that it is so meaningful to a lot of people.

[Max Manghella]

It's a good movie. We were very positive about it.

[David Sims]

We liked this show.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I will. You know, because I'm also a Die Hard Succession fan.

[Max Manghella]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

It is quite strange how much overlap there is between those two projects.

[Max Manghella]

Industry and succession or no Succession and.

[Griffin Newman]

Meet you Black and Success. I feel like Mito Black has a lot of Succession.

[David Sims]

Interesting. And like supporting. Well. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Max Manghella]

Because it's got. You're right. I mean, it's sort of the. The. The. Right, the. The guy giving away the business. Right, right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

When I first saw Succession, the pilot, I remember being like, is this a final.

[Max Manghella]

Is it the same universe as me, Joe Black?

[David Sims]

How great would it be if Joe Black showed up in the final episode of Succession?

[Max Manghella]

I'm buying another network. And then finally, Brad Pitt shows up. He's like, who the are you?

[David Sims]

Everything's gonna be iri. Okay, I think that's the end of the episode. Thank you, everybody for being here. Thank you all for listening. I nailed one successful callback. Tune in next week. Not for look who's Talking Now. That will be happening over on our Patreon.

[Max Manghella]

That's right.

[David Sims]

With our good friend Rebecca Alter.

[Max Manghella]

In fact, next week, Griffin, we shall be having a final reckoning.

[David Sims]

A final reckoning?

[Max Manghella]

Reckoning with Mission Impossible, one assumes the final film in the franchise.

[David Sims]

We'll find out.

[Max Manghella]

You never know.

[David Sims]

We wait with bated breath. You seem unconvinced.

[Griffin Newman]

No. So this doesn't come out till late May. God.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

It's April now. It's not that crazy.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Max Manghella]

But yes, Mission Impossible, the final reckoning approacheth.

[David Sims]

And then we'll. We'll return Clueless after that. Clueless with Heidi Gardner.

[Max Manghella]

That's right. We can tell you that Heidi Gardner is the guest on this episode because we recorded it.

[David Sims]

Your favorite movie.

[Max Manghella]

She's showing up and it's my favorite movie. And she was such a good guest.

[David Sims]

Yes. Yeah, funny.

[Max Manghella]

I was like. And she stank. She shits the bed. But the movie's good.

[David Sims]

It's a great episode, so thank you all for listening. Look forward to that. And as always, just remember that Mr. Toilet man eats your poo poo in your pee pee.

[Ben Hosley]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Simon Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithee. Research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on Social checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.