Ratcatcher

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David

Episode: Ratcatcher (January 18, 2026)

---

Main Theme

This episode marks the launch of a new Blank Check miniseries on director Lynne Ramsay. Hosts Griffin Newman, David Sims, and producer Ben Hosley (“Producer Ben”) dig into Ramsay’s debut feature, Ratcatcher (1999). They set Ramsay’s work in context, discuss its emotional power, and explore the particular challenges and rewards of her cinema, especially for first-time viewers. Throughout, they balance their signature brand of film-geek enthusiasm, tangents, and irreverence with genuine admiration for Ramsay's artistry.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Lynne Ramsay & Miniseries Perspective

• Griffin introduces Lynne Ramsay as "one of the best filmmakers on the planet," comparing the excitement of this new series to previous director deep-dives (e.g. Buster Keaton).
• David emphasizes both the challenge and the vitality of Ramsay’s films, noting they are intense but not punishing:

  “These movies are not, in my opinion, punishing. They are difficult and they are challenging.” (06:11)

2. Ramsay’s Artistic Style & Emotional Power

• The hosts praise Ramsay's ability to handle "unspeakable realities of human life" with subtlety and style, finding catharsis rather than mere bleakness in her films.

  “She makes films about the things that we don't know how to talk about or even think about...they are all based in kind of like unspeakable realities of human life. And they are...in an understated way." (06:26)

• Ben and Griffin underscore how Ratcatcher and Ramsay’s body of work make them feel "more alive" and "connected to the human condition," pointing to the films’ cathartic potential.

  “You go out in the world after watching this film and it’s, you’re reminded you’re alive, you’re human.” (Ben, 14:33)

3. First Experiences with Ratcatcher

• David shares personal anecdotes about seeing Ratcatcher as a teen living in England and its strong emotional impact.

  “We were just both so struck by it. It was just one...we were just like, God, this is...this is unbelievable.” (David, 10:57)

• The hosts connect the film thematically to other British social realism classics, particularly Ken Loach's Kes, but point out Ratcatcher’s unique blend of realism and magical realism.

4. Debunking Ramsay’s “Bleakness”

• They challenge the perception that Ramsay’s films are mere “bleak week” cinema, advocating instead for their layered emotionality and humane outlook.

  “I do think Lynne Ramsey movies are all deeply trying to engage with what it feels like to be a person. That is the number one thing they are all really digging into.” (Griffin, 14:45)

• Ben’s “ice cream hack”: Have a pint handy when watching Ramsay’s films (16:36–17:04).

5. Background on Lynne Ramsay & Glasgow

• David delivers a thorough biographical sketch of Ramsay, her upbringing in Glasgow, family background, formative influences (including The Wizard of Oz and Douglas Sirk), and her non-traditional route to filmmaking (31:02–38:18).
• Discussion of the specific setting of Ratcatcher during Glasgow's 1975 garbage strike; the authenticity of location and actors (almost all non-professionals), and the importance of local detail in Ramsay’s work.

6. Visual & Narrative Style

• Ramsay’s fusion of realism and magical realism—evident in poetic visuals such as the famous mouse-on-balloon scene.

  “Is this a gritty slice of life movie about a working class kid in Glasgow? Yes, it is. Does it also have little touches of magical realism and sort of beauty fantasy? Right, right. Like sort of Malikian, you know, landscapes. Yes, it does.” (David, 15:18)

• Griffin highlights Ramsay’s focus on “the emotional experiences of going through kind of unspeakable experience.” (06:57)

7. Plot & Core Themes of Ratcatcher

• Detailed breakdown of the movie's premise: 12-year-old James, his guilt after another boy drowns, the stifling world of 1970s Glasgow, the struggle with poverty, masculinity, and cycles of violence and neglect.
• Griffin evokes the lived sense of vulnerability and precarity for children in that world:

  “There is just this huge vulnerability here. Yeah. Anyone could kind of drown in the water at any time.” (52:01)

• Discussion of how Ramsay avoids melodrama or thriller conventions even with potentially “hooky” material, sticking to emotional authenticity instead (53:29–55:22).

8. Ambiguity of the Ending

• The hosts debate the film's ambiguous ending, whether it tilts toward hope or tragedy:

  “I think it’s real. I mean, you could interpret it as a weird kind of fantasy or dream, but I don’t think so...Maybe I’m wrong.” (David, 54:19) “I think so, but I think you could read it either way.” (Griffin, 54:37)

9. Ramsay’s Broader Influence

• Ratcatcher’s critical legacy, including influence on Barry Jenkins (Moonlight), and Ramsay’s unique way of depicting “the inner life” on screen (98:30–114:08).
• David shares a direct quote from Ramsay rejecting pure homage and copycatting:

  “I wish I’d never mentioned Bresson. I’m not trying to make an homage or a pastiche like all those Tarantino copycats, those film boys who are just making wank musette.” (114:08)

10. Tangents and Notable Comic Moments

• Extensive, often hilarious digressions on parenting, British ice cream (Ben & Jerry’s Chunky Monkey, etc.), the hierarchy of SNL movies, Ben Kingsley & Jude Law’s “naughty trouble,” Oscars showdowns, Patrick Stewart’s many on-screen deaths, and much more.
• Griffin’s recurring bit: comparing topics to Oscar-winning films, superhero franchises, and pressing pop culture (e.g., imagining “Ratcatcher” in the Avengers).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “She makes films about the things that we don’t know how to talk about or even think about...they are all based in kind of like unspeakable realities of human life...”
  — Griffin Newman (06:26)

• “These movies are not, in my opinion, punishing. They are difficult and they are challenging.”
  — David Sims (06:11)

• “You go out in the world after watching this film and it’s, you’re reminded you’re alive, you’re human. It puts you in touch with that…”
  — Ben Hos (14:33)

• “Is this a gritty slice of life movie about a working class kid in Glasgow?...Does it also have little touches of magical realism and sort of beauty fantasy?...Yes, it does.”
  — David Sims (15:18)

• “All three of us are different strains of scentsy boy at our core. And I think a thing this movie captures incredibly well is that moment of ‘Am I going to let the pressures of a kind of imposed cultural sense of masculinity change me permanently?’”
  — Griffin Newman (27:43)

• “I wish I’d never mentioned Bresson. I’m not trying to make an homage or a pastiche like all those Tarantino copycats, those film boys who are just making wank musette.”
  — Lynne Ramsay (read by David Sims, 114:08)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:44: Start of Lynne Ramsay miniseries announcement
• 05:50–06:14: Distinction between "challenging" and "punishing" films
• 13:06–14:30: On watching Ratcatcher during a tough week; the film’s emotional effect
• 15:18–15:34: Magic realism in Ratcatcher
• 31:02–38:18: Ramsay’s background and artistic influences
• 40:04–44:01: Making Ratcatcher – casting, crew, locations
• 45:27–46:29: The “innocence” of the bathtub scene; visual sensibility
• 51:01–53:58: Handling trauma without melodrama or crime-plot conventions
• 54:19–54:41: Ambiguity of the ending
• 98:30–99:16: Ratcatcher’s influence on Barry Jenkins and Moonlight
• 114:05–114:21: Ramsay’s quoted philosophy on cinematic influence

---

Conclusion & Look Ahead

The hosts agree Ratcatcher is an extraordinary debut and set high expectations for the rest of Ramsay’s filmography. They tease next week’s episode on Morvern Callar (with guest Emily Yoshida) and encourage both skeptical and new viewers to engage with Ramsay’s cinema.

---

Listen If...

• You want a warm, thoughtful yet funny primer on Lynne Ramsay’s debut film and career
• You’re curious about how serious, “bleak” films can be cathartic and vital
• You love film talk that mixes movie lore, personal stories, and full-tilt tangents

---

Next Time...

Morvern Callar with special guest Emily Yoshida. (Hosts remain obsessed with ice cream.)

---

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the shadow is blank Check. Ma, I asked you to put blank check on. You weren't listening. I told you to put blank check on, but put blank check on. Blank check. Blank check.

[Ben Hos]

You lot wouldn't know a good tune if it came up and bit you.

[Griffin Newman]

Put blank check on.

[David Sims]

Stop screaming in me ear.

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check.

[David Sims]

Blank check is shite. Emery, you're shite.

[Griffin Newman]

You're a big shite.

[David Sims]

That scene. Yeah, what? What is it? What's the. What is it? That.

[Griffin Newman]

Tom Jones.

[David Sims]

Tom Jones, right, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Which. It's very rude. Tom Jones is a wonderful singer.

[David Sims]

Sure. That scene really resonated with me as the father of a child that now loudly requests music and calls you shite, luckily is yet to learn the word.

[Griffin Newman]

Boss Baby just paces around, not calling shite or anything like calling you shite.

[David Sims]

But yeah, yeah, that scene. I've been on the receiving end of the. The six shouted requests where I'm like, I heard the first.

[Griffin Newman]

What are the big requests now? Can we go K Pop?

[David Sims]

Demon Hunter Songs? Golden Soda Pop, Takedown.

[Griffin Newman]

Has Boss Baby watched the movie or just the soundtrack?

[David Sims]

Just the. Just knows the songs.

[Griffin Newman]

It is incredible. How dare I say it? Potent those songs have become. I'm not saying they're a potent mix, but I'm saying if you were to put those songs onto a mixtape, that would be a potent mix. No, but it's like the saturation of those songs.

[David Sims]

Absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like Frozen and Taylor Swift combined.

[David Sims]

Very powerful. And I will admit I watched that film and I was sort of like, oh, yeah, I get this. But, you know, I think I'm sort of like bouncing off me a little bit. But I get that it's get why this is. I can see why this is so popular. Homer Simpson line and then, you know, listen to these songs 100 times. I'm like, well, they do rock. There's there. They've worked their magic on me and.

[Griffin Newman]

That'S why it's so smart that the Academy shortlisted.

[David Sims]

Only one of them did they just golden.

[Griffin Newman]

Amanda Dobbins had a great breakdown. A big picture.

[David Sims]

It's kind of the Encanto situation. Did they just go all in on.

[Griffin Newman]

One to help you? How did you mess this up?

[David Sims]

At least do two. At least have two.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's only golden, but I.

[David Sims]

Mean, like, that's the encanto strategy. Sometimes I feel like the movie will Be like, well, let's just get R1 over the line. But then Encanto famously picked the wrong song. They picked the emotional and lovely dosa guitas. And they should, of course, pick Bruno. They didn't see the Bruno wave coming.

[Griffin Newman]

But we don't.

[David Sims]

We don't talk about it.

[Griffin Newman]

We don't talk about that.

[David Sims]

Silence. Silencio, Bruno.

[Griffin Newman]

Silencio, Bruno.

[David Sims]

Oh, boy, oh, boy. It's the start of a new miniseries.

[Griffin Newman]

David's like, you're. Like you're dealing cards. You were making a hand gesture like you were dealing them out at the poker table. We're holding a hot hand here.

[David Sims]

Yeah, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

In my opinion, a wet hand. Five masterpiece. Five great movies from one of my favorite living filmmakers. In my opinion, one of the best filmmakers on the planet, Lynn Ramsey, someone I have been wanting to discuss on this podcast for many a year.

[Ben Hos]

I was telling Sims earlier, before you got here, Griff, that having now watched. I guess we've done three.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

And I only really had familiarity with. You were never really here. I am vibing with Lynn Ramsey so hard in a way where I don't. I like across our whole 10. I guess now our 11th year of doing the show, I think that dreams.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

This is the director I'm vibing with the hardest.

[David Sims]

I mean, she's just so Ben coated. Despite being from another country.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, I never had a doubt your reaction was going to be that strong.

[David Sims]

No doubt.

[Griffin Newman]

Never a doubt.

[Ben Hos]

They're challenging films.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And I would say the most challenging we've yet to tackle and the least. Ben, in a way, we don't talk about Kevin. We don't talk about Bruno. We need to talk about Kevin. That's where we go, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah. That's the difference. Kevin must be discussed. And we are promising we are going to discuss him on our episodes.

[David Sims]

We must.

[Griffin Newman]

Kevin. Yes, I. Look, this being the first episode of a miniseries and one that I very much pushed over the line, I feel like there has not been as much of a Griff move.

[David Sims]

No resistance here. You've always. You've always marked Lynn as. When she makes another movie. We're.

[Griffin Newman]

We're doing Lynn, and it's very much like the Buster Keaton series for me.

[David Sims]

Lin Manuel. We don't talk about Bruno. That's him.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Lynn Ramsey.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Rat catcher.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Today's film.

[Griffin Newman]

That's her right now.

[David Sims]

That's just for the list.

[Griffin Newman]

Lin Manuel Ramsey would be like. And I'm not tying a rat to a balloon.

[David Sims]

Interesting. We've been served with A legal document here.

[Griffin Newman]

He just unfriended me on Facebook. I have my Facebook account that I use just to sync up to Disney Emoji Blitz and Message. Lyn.

[David Sims]

Yeah, you're still. You're still message sliding into those messenger DMs.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not saying there was any opposition to it, but she's very much one of my people and much like Buster Keaton, it felt like, look, this is a slightly more challenging miniseries than we've done before. The Ask on Buster Keaton. Although those films are very, very fun and watchable. And I was happy to see our listeners discover that in real time. We're asking people to engage with century old silent films, which is outside of some people's language. These movies are very emotionally intense. Another filmmaker I adore who I think has similar kind of thematic obsessions and weight is the great French director Robert Besson, who I once wanted to put on a March Madness bracket. And David very, very wisely pointed out, imagine 20 weeks of that.

[David Sims]

I love Drew Peppers so much.

[Griffin Newman]

We love him. One of the important filmmakers ever. We would not be covering Lynne Ramsey if she had double digit numbers of film because I think it's just a lot to ask of our listeners. But I also think. And this is what you're experiencing, Ben, These movies are not, in my opinion, punishing. They are difficult and they are challenging.

[David Sims]

They're a little challenging, but no, I don't. No, no, certainly not.

[Griffin Newman]

These are not movies that my love of lynch is not a fetishizing of a kind of feel bad mood. No, it is that I feel like she very, very.

[David Sims]

The material is tough to think about sometimes.

[Griffin Newman]

The most simple way I would put it is she makes films about the things that we don't know how to talk about or even think about. Much like Kevin we need to. But they're all based in kind of like unspeakable realities of human life. And they are.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

She tells those stories in an understated way. I don't think they are punishing.

[David Sims]

She's got style, dude.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a huge part of it.

[David Sims]

Very stylish filmmaker. We're going to be unpacking because these.

[Griffin Newman]

Movies are about the emotional experiences of going through kind of unspeakable experience.

[David Sims]

She's never gone over two hours. Congrats to us.

[Griffin Newman]

I love that.

[David Sims]

Her longest movies Die my love at 119 minutes. She kept it under.

[Griffin Newman]

She kept it under. It's five films over the course of 26 years with a lot of failed what if projects that we'll talk about that are really, really fascinating. But this is her first film, Ratcatcher, released in the UK in 1999. In the States in 2000, it got an early. I say early. A pretty immediate Criterion release. A thing that is not as criteria of their model anymore, other than when they are, like, the distributor for a film and were theatrically. But George Washington is another one that comes out 2000 in the US where it's like, Criterion has taken a debut film, a debut that barely got a theatrical release in the United States.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And are immediately kind of canonizing it. Yeah, you're right. You're right. If you're like a film nerd like us, and you're looking to the Criterion announcements every month as a, like, guidebook of, like, where should I start? What should I look at? You know, and not to age ourselves.

[David Sims]

But this is how you discovered it.

[Griffin Newman]

Criterion only has, like, 200 titles.

[David Sims]

No, I hear you. This is interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

You go to the video, you find another one, you go, interesting. They put a movie in the collection that's only two years old. That immediately jumped out to me. And so this was the first one. I watched him for that exact reason.

[David Sims]

Okay, that's interesting. But what's this podcast called?

[Griffin Newman]

This podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I am Griffin. I'm David producer Ben here with us, vibing out to Lynn Ramsey, poking the bruise. This is a miniseries on the films of Lynn Ramsey. It's called we need to Pot. About Castfin, which we're going to do.

[David Sims]

We will.

[Griffin Newman]

It sure will.

[David Sims]

Two weeks and. Right. Just do. Honest. That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

Today we're talking about her debut film, Ratcatcher.

[David Sims]

Lynn Ramsey's first film, Ratcatcher, which came out in Britain in 2000, but debuted at the. You know, it was at the Cannes Film Festival. It was this. This sort of announcement of a new talent. She won the bafta's newcomer award, the Foreman Award, which was a big deal back then.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a little similar to Jane Campion's launch. This energy of attention must be paid by the festivals and by.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I discovered this film because my mom must have interviewed her. My mom, we moved to London. I lived in London.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we know.

[David Sims]

1999.

[Griffin Newman]

Why are you putting such an emphasis on us? You were foiled when you said that you had. There was a tremor in your body.

[David Sims]

It's pretty interesting for someone to have lived in another country.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. I don't think it's interesting. I don't understand why we need to make such a meal out of this.

[David Sims]

I'm making a big meal out of it. And, you know, she became. She. I've talked about this. She had this period where she was. She was writing arts journalism for sort of the first time in her life for the Daily News, where she had been a political reporter, city reporter for many years. And Graham Fuller was her editor in this sort of period. The great Graham Fuller. Sort of a friend of mine or, you know, someone I respect.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, well, that's a humble brag. That is a humble brag.

[David Sims]

And I feel like Graham had this artier taste, so he would assign her kind of artier stories.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[David Sims]

I just remember she came home with a VHS of this movie that I assume was like a sort of a screener or something, essentially. And she was like, I got to watch this. I got to talk to this filmmaker. And we threw it on, which is like. You don't really throw on Rat Catcher.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I mean, you place it very gently in a Player. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I assume. We knew that it was like a sort of gritty indie feature. It's not like we were like, oh, what's this about, like, you know, a sort of sports agent who has a second act in life.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, you know, but there's. You could look at this movie and.

[David Sims]

Go, like, the President's plane gets hijacked by Russian terrorists. You could go like, movies of that.

[Griffin Newman]

Is this a slightly rougher cast? Yeah.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That's kind of an interesting.

[David Sims]

This movie really made me. Certainly reminds me of Cass. And we can talk.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes, but.

[David Sims]

And we watch it, and it's like, you know, it's a. It's an emotionally demanding movie, and it's a. It's got, you know, intense content. But I remember we were. I was what, 13?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

We were just both so struck by it. It was just one. We were just like, God, this is. This is unbelievable. And we loved British slice of life stuff, me and my mom, because we lived in this country that wasn't our own. We were the most outsider. Like, my dad had grown up in England, obviously, and my brother moved to England when he was 5. So he was, you know, he was a little bit more of a British boy than me.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Like, I moved to England as, like, a little American kid.

[Griffin Newman]

You had an identity.

[David Sims]

I had my little American identity.

[Griffin Newman]

You had the bags under your eyes. You knew who you were.

[David Sims]

So this is why me and my mom. I probably did.

[Griffin Newman]

You probably did.

[David Sims]

I mean, I got him early.

[Griffin Newman]

It is so funny.

[David Sims]

My mom has them, too. It's Genetic.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. It is so funny that my kids have them. Five years of this podcast, you maintained that you have permanent bags under your eyes because in high school, you spent too many nights staying up on Oscar watch.

[David Sims]

That is undeniable.

[Griffin Newman]

That is undeniable.

[David Sims]

I didn't do myself any favors by not sleeping as a teenager.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But then all three of your children were immediately born with the exact same eyes.

[David Sims]

They cut the eyes. They got those tired eyes.

[Griffin Newman]

They're not on Oscar watch.

[David Sims]

Well, you never. I know what they got up to. So we loved, like, Mike Lee movies. We loved watching, like, the old British new wave movies from the 60s.

[Griffin Newman]

Cast for people who don't know. And cast a Ken Loach film about a boy.

[David Sims]

We can talk about Cass in a second. I'm going to actually put a pin in cast because I actually recently rewatched.

[Griffin Newman]

Cass, but in the UK is kind of a generational classic.

[David Sims]

It is. It is. But. And I just. So. I just. And so we always owned this movie. And I think I even rewatched it, like, it was always honored, like, video shelf. Because she'd gotten the screener.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And so I was. Yeah. I was also all in on Lyn right away.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then Morvern Kallor came out and, like, which we'll talk about next week. And, you know, Samantha Morton was this hot new star, and it was like, oh, it's exciting. And then, of course, her career develops in this depressing way.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Like, where, like, it becomes with Lynne Ramsey, as we'll talk about, like, the story is the movie she doesn't get to make. And the story is, like, how long it takes her to make a movie and how chaotic it can be. And then when something does come out, it's always really interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

I think a lot. I think what a crazy world we live in. We live in a crazy, topsy turvy, upside down world. Can I say it?

[Ben Hos]

It's especially been a rough week in the world.

[Griffin Newman]

It has. You know, this has been an intense week to watch this movie. But speaking transparently, there is a good chance that any week you are listening to this episode, that will also apply to the week that you have just lived through. You're living through a very intense time right now. And it doesn't seem to be getting less confusing. And there's always this dread of, like, am I gonna be in the headspace to want to watch these movies at this time? And speaking candidly, I've been going through a kind of rough psychological patch that is another Bit I have stolen from the Doughboys and Tiger Weiger my depression era. But it's partially, you know, there's some circumstantial stuff, a lot of just my bad brain wiring. I've been wanting to do this series for a very long time and it's like, am I. Am I going to be in a good place to watch and talk about these movies?

[David Sims]

Oh, sure. Like, if you're feeling a little upset, you know, Lynne Ramsey might not be the first thing you want to watch, but you're about to say, actually, I.

[Griffin Newman]

Fucking love the way I feel about her work. Is her movies always make me feel more alive. They always make me feel more connected to the human condition. And if I am in a good mood and I watch them, it's not like they bring me down. I feel something kind of cathartic of thinking through thoroughly, such intense emotions. And if I'm in a bad mood and I watch it, I go, hey, man, I get it, you know?

[Ben Hos]

Totally. I literally just wrote down the exact same thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[Ben Hos]

You go out in the world after watching this film and it's. You're reminded you're alive, you're human. It puts you in touch with that. It's so easy to be distracted by just your phone and the everyday.

[David Sims]

It's.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not like hurt so Good edgelord shit, which I don't say dismissively. There are versions of that and filmmakers who do that well that I enjoy to varying degrees. But that's more. Am I in the right mood to watch this? I do think Lynne Ramsey movies are all deeply trying to engage with what it feels like to be a person. That is the number one thing they are all really digging into. And she explores that in very non literal emotional terms that are always kind of very engrossing and captivating to watch.

[David Sims]

Yeah. This is a movie where it's like, is this a gritty slice of life movie about a working class kid in Glasgow? Glasgow. Yes, it is. Does it also have little touches of magical realism and sort of beauty fantasy? Right, right. Like sort of Malikian, you know, landscapes. Yes, it does.

[Griffin Newman]

This is not a fuck you pushing your face into the mud.

[David Sims]

It's Not a Nil by Mouth, which is a movie I really love. And Gary Oldman, who directed that film, has called this his favorite British film.

[Griffin Newman]

Of all time, which makes a ton of sense. Yes.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. And I like, I like those, you know, I like the. Right. The British movies that just like, life's hard, you live in the fucking council. Those are more you know, and you're.

[Griffin Newman]

A specific mood movie, and this has.

[David Sims]

Some of that, but it's a little.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, I want to offer this as a disclaimer. Well, I will not judge or bemoan any listener who just needs to opt out for these five weeks. I get it. These movies all deal with complicated subjects.

[David Sims]

You're a coward. No, I'm kidding. You do whatever you want.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't.

[David Sims]

I care.

[Griffin Newman]

But I. But I. I would encourage people to at least give them a chance. And I've seen since we announced this series, many blankies going like, oh, what, so it's like five. Five weeks of Bleak Week. Is that like, what's going on here? And then watching one or two and going like, these are not what I thought at all. Which I think is what you're describing as well as been your experience.

[Ben Hos]

Absolute. Although I do have a hack.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, okay. For this series, give it to us.

[Ben Hos]

Have on hand pints of ice cream, because I will tell you, a little.

[David Sims]

Fish food at the ready.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben and Lynn, after watching Rat Catcher.

[Ben Hos]

Grab yourself some ice cream.

[Griffin Newman]

What kind of. What kind of cream are you scooping?

[David Sims]

Yeah, what do you like?

[Ben Hos]

Yeah, I mean, when it comes to Ben and Jerry's, I love a Chunky Monkey.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah. Is that the one with banana?

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like I don't like Chunky Monkey because it has walnuts. Is that right?

[David Sims]

You know what? They don't pay us, but let's find the out.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, do you know that Ben and Jerry is in the middle of, like, insane drama?

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That, like, Jerry is trying to buy the company back. Or is it.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. It's sort of like. I think there was some sort of split in retirement and the companies had moved in a less political direction. And whoever retired is upset about that. I can't remember.

[Griffin Newman]

Which has now merged with another larger company that's sort of like, destroying the ethos in a way that was contractual.

[David Sims]

I have a friend who used to work for Ben and Jerry, and I've heard a little bit about it. Chunky Monkey.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben was your friend.

[David Sims]

Ben Stiller. Ben who?

[Griffin Newman]

You had a friend who worked for Ben and Jerry.

[David Sims]

Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

My joke was guessing I was one of the two guys with the name in the company. But then I realized she using. I shouldn't have said the guy that also shares a name with someone in this room right now. Because when I said that, Ben turned around.

[David Sims]

No, yeah, it's my name. I don't know. Ben. Whatever his Last name?

[Griffin Newman]

Can I try it again?

[David Sims]

No, honestly, let's move on.

[Griffin Newman]

Say I have a friend who worked for Ben.

[David Sims]

Worked for Ben and Jerry.

[Griffin Newman]

Jerry.

[David Sims]

No, no.

[Griffin Newman]

You were gonna say Stiller.

[David Sims]

That would have been funny too. Fuck. Actually, yeah, good point.

[Griffin Newman]

They do have walnuts.

[David Sims]

They do have walnuts in the, in the Chunky Monkey. And I did go to the factory, which is up in Vermont, up in northern Vermont. When my. I had a girlfriend who went to Goddard College, which is a remote. It doesn't exist anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

That is one of the biggest humble breaks I've ever heard.

[David Sims]

I had a girlfriend who went to.

[Griffin Newman]

Goddard, that you had a girlfriend and you took her to the Ben and Jerry factory.

[David Sims]

Well, it was like when you go up there, the things to do include go to Ben and Jerry's, go to Cabot also.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

The Cabot Factory is really fun. You can watch the curds and whey. Oh, that sounds skimmed. And you know, you can go buy like a fuck off block of cheese.

[Griffin Newman]

Little Miss Ma there.

[David Sims]

Yes, there. Yeah, yeah, she's, she's, she's there.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And she's, she's, she's doing great.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Ben Hos]

Okay. Another flavor. I love chocolate chip cookie dough.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the classic. Yeah, I was gonna say my, my favorite is the chubby hubby, often confused with Chunky Monkey, which has chocolate coated peanut butter pretzels in it.

[David Sims]

You know, I just like a late night host to be on my Ben and Jerry's. You know, I just, I need, I need the, the comfort of, of Jimmy Fallon looking at us.

[Griffin Newman]

I need to. Respectfully, objectively, I think the tonight dough is a good flavor of ice cream.

[David Sims]

I think I've had it.

[Griffin Newman]

But here's the problem.

[David Sims]

I've had the American dream for sure.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a choking hazard because I can't get down one spoonful of this thing without laughing so hard.

[David Sims]

Look, we're going to talk about funniest ice cream. I said we are going to be really concise on this episode because we got two episodes to record today. And I want to be really, I want to be really, really, really concise and tangent free. But I do want to say, did you see when Timmy Shalam, who's promoting his film Marty Supreme?

[Griffin Newman]

Our bud Timmy.

[David Sims]

Yeah. My, my big butt Tim T. TC went on Fallon, you know, he's promoting the movie and he does some kind of joke about I guess the Bob Dylan tour he did last, you know, like when he was promoting Complete Unknown. And Fallon does like a pitch perfect Dylan Impression to do the bit. He does some sort of bit. I can't even remember what it was. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Griffin Newman]

I have not seen this Timmy.

[David Sims]

Sh. It's really funny. Like what? Fallon essentially ad libs something quite funny with his Dylan impression. Cuz Fallon is a gifted impressionist. And Timmy looks at him with this momentary kind of like, fuck, that was funny. Like Chalamet probably has never known Fallon to be funny. He was like a great point, you know what I mean? And it's just this like flash from Timmy of like, oh, right, you used to be a funny person.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like instead of like the fucking, you know, anus that you are now. Sorry, Jimmy Fallon. If you listen. Just. Just the gibbering fool that sits behind the desk of the Tonight show desecrating the name of Johnny Car and. And fucking. Well, no, Leno's all right. He can get desecrated.

[Griffin Newman]

We should mention that Jimmy will be our guest on the Morvard Kallor episode.

[David Sims]

Guys movies. It was crazy. Boyfriend dies, she chops him up.

[Griffin Newman]

Spoilers.

[David Sims]

She doesn't do that.

[Griffin Newman]

It's opening. Opening of the movie.

[David Sims]

No, she does chop him up.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. Tristan Griffin, great New York actor, comedian, comedic actor, UCB person. Did a sketch you can watch on YouTube for characters. Welcome. That is Jimmy Fallon being called in to testify as a witness in a murder trial.

[David Sims]

That sounds great.

[Griffin Newman]

And it is the best Jimmy Fallon impression I have ever seen. It's an excellent sketch. It's crazy.

[David Sims]

This is crazy. He's dead.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's great. He does somber. Jimmy. And having a party. Jimmy perfectly Rat catcher. I think about a. A line I paraphrase often on this podcast that I heard Greta Gerwig say about being on film festival juries.

[David Sims]

Ok. Greta Gerwig said something about it. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

When you suddenly have to watch like 30 movies.

[David Sims]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And you have a say in the matter of an award that could change someone's entire career. Right?

[David Sims]

Yeah, right. Like a new filmmaker like this who scraped together a tiny amount of like state money to make a little movie. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And how do you process these things and how do you give all the movies equal weight?

[David Sims]

Because especially if you like, this is a film that I assume we'll look it up. It was funded by the UK Film Council or whatever. And if you go and win a prize at, you know, can or whatever, you can come back to your country and be like, see? Yeah, like I, you know. Because you're not going to come back and be like, hey, rat catcher. Made 40 million in almost.

[Griffin Newman]

But you can be like, this was a world. That's how it works. 100% countries with art funds.

[David Sims]

Yes. Do you want to see the Fallon bit? It's really funny. It's 20 seconds.

[Griffin Newman]

Great.

[David Sims]

It is so funny that he's surrounded by people wearing ping pong.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You're Domin for a Grammy Award. So they're talking about the Grammys, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Because he got nominated for the Dylan album.

[David Sims]

So it's. Right. He says, I'm imagining Dylan in a Mortal Kombat. Because he's talking about. And Fallon goes, finish him. Right? And sh. You could just double takes. He's like, wait, that was funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, get a load of this guy.

[David Sims]

It's like he's looking at this husk and it's suddenly. It's Theoden in Lord of the Rings. He's like on the throne covered in spiderwebs. And then his eyes lit up for a second. You know what I mean?

[Griffin Newman]

Once again, you're speaking of next week's guest. If you are listening. Yes.

[David Sims]

Our next week's guest is King Theoden in sort of web mode.

[Griffin Newman]

Mummified. King Theoden is doing. We need to talk about Kevin. Jimmy is doing.

[David Sims]

Right. Wormtongue will be doing Morvern. No, we'll be doing Die My Love.

[Griffin Newman]

Wormtongue. Yes.

[David Sims]

Because, I mean, Wormtongue is a great speaker. Absolutely right in the name.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely. It's right.

[David Sims]

Wormy tongue.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And Matt Kowalik is doing. You were never really here. I meant to do a joke about Matt Kowalik doing this episode because the doughboys always make a joke about him being a rat. He's a rat guy. Anyway, one of you must know how to make a gif of Timmy's reaction, because I think this is an evergreen expression of like, holy shit. Wow. I thought you sucked. The way he conveys that facially. There's a lot of utility for this as a gift.

[David Sims]

100%.

[Griffin Newman]

We need this as a public. Like this needs to exist in the public trust. Yeah. What I was gonna say the Gerwig thing is.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah. Greta Gerwig's talking about being on a very festival.

[Griffin Newman]

She said, you. You put the movie on. And whether it's a screener, you go into a screening and within five seconds, you know, when you're seeing a filmmaker.

[David Sims]

Agree with her completely. As someone who's done juries and stuff, you. You know immediately. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And she said, if a movie is.

[David Sims]

Gonna be like sometimes, sort of sometimes next level kind of thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Sometimes they don't live up to their potential or their start. Right. The person hasn't quite figured out how to communicate what they want to do. Sometimes a movie that doesn't start flashy builds in other ways because performance or whatever.

[David Sims]

Right. I like a movie to start flashy with. Sort of like Tommy Lee Jones has the neuralizer. He's pointing it right at me.

[Griffin Newman]

The best kind of flash.

[David Sims]

Right. Erase my memory. This could be my first movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Or a movie starts with Jennifer Beals. Like working at a steel mill. Cut off shirt. That's another flashy way to start.

[David Sims]

That's. Yeah, it's a. It's pretty flashy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Or, or. And this is once again a disclaimer because I don't want to make it sound like our listeners need to do this. If you're not comfortable with this. Yep, I understand. But if you're ready for Ricky.

[David Sims]

And.

[Griffin Newman]

You could start a movie with Ricky in the flash playing a small concert. Hey, Blankies. January 11th over on Blank Check. Special features, we're discussing the Wiz. One of my favorite movies of all time. Have been waiting forever to do this part of our commentary series on the wizard of Oz universe. Some highlights include my passion for Motown music. Very well established in the history of this podcast. How Diana Ross pulled strings to get the lead role of Dorothy, which is a bit of an understatement. How the film reimagines New York City through the Oz lens. Frighteningly tangents like the infamous Quincy Jones interview. David, do you like Brazilian music?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And Ben's pivot to becoming an author. Also, we talk about crying a lot. It's a tear filled movie. So listen to that. Exclusively on Patreon. I, I think to your point, Lynne Ramsey, but especially this film. For a first film. It is what Greta Gerwig is describing. It is within five seconds. I'm watching a filmmaker. Yep. Who is this person? What is their deal? Trying to figure it out. Which is why, like, it is bizarre, David, that both you and I were transfixed by this movie while being vaguely the age of the characters.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And I look, I'm not a poor Glaswegan kid.

[Griffin Newman]

Neither am I.

[David Sims]

And I never experience the things that, that we. What's his name? What's his name in the film?

[Griffin Newman]

Rat catcher.

[David Sims]

No. Rat Catcher will of course be joining the Avengers and Avengers.

[Griffin Newman]

I was googling for Rat Catcher quotes and unfortunately all that was coming up was the Suicide Squad Catcher two, who's a charming performer. I like her quite a bit.

[David Sims]

Yeah. But. But yes, for some. What for you know, whatever. I, I responded to the kid immensely. Absolutely. To like, to just that feeling of like, you know, being a bunch amongst a bunch of kids that you just are not vibing with, I think. And like you just, you don't want to make them mad and you don't want to do the fucking weird shit they're doing.

[Griffin Newman]

All three of us are different strains of scentsy boy at our core. And I think a thing this movie captures incredibly well is that moment of am I going to let the pressures of a kind of imposed cultural sense of masculinity change me permanently?

[David Sims]

Right, right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like this peer pressure, boys will be boys kind of insidious energy that he is trying to navigate his way around while also trying to figure out how to just fucking survive, you know, and not just survive them, but like everything in his life.

[David Sims]

Lynn Ramsey opening the dossier.

[Griffin Newman]

Please do.

[David Sims]

Born on December 5, 1969. Wow, 1969.

[Griffin Newman]

Pretty rad.

[David Sims]

Born in Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland. Two a Catholic Father and a Protestant mother. And I don't know if you guys know this, but that kind of is a little more unusual, especially back then cross faced marriage. Glasgow of course, is home to what they call the Old Firm, the most famous sports rivalry in Britain between Celtic and Rangers, which are the two big Glasgow football teams. And Celtic is supported by Catholics, Rangers is supported by Protestants. Classically, I know, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Home to the Glasgow kiss. When you headbutt someone in the nose.

[David Sims]

The, the, the, the jokey thing is that a Glasgow kiss is a headbutt. Yes, yes, yes. Jokey Glasgow kiss.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't find that funny. Jimmy Fallon would not be laughing at that. Hey buddy, please.

[David Sims]

You know, in Britain, Glasgow blank basically just sort of means like a rough. I feel like British people are like, that's the scariest place.

[Griffin Newman]

A Glasgow handshake is stabbing someone in the liver.

[Ben Hos]

I want to share. I did visit Glasgow for the first time. It was a beautiful city. But I can see the edge.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

I mean it's a very cool city and it's only gotten cooler. Totally very cool.

[Griffin Newman]

And I, I, it's rougher days have.

[David Sims]

You know, are behind.

[Griffin Newman]

I do have to correct you, the edge is Irish.

[Ben Hos]

I did though witness kids very much the age of the like kind of older bully kids, right.

[David Sims]

Kind of like 13, 14 year old.

[Ben Hos]

I did witness a street fight.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh sure. Well, you know what they call that? Glasgow homework.

[David Sims]

That's pretty good. So she says her, her family's, you know, her parents's parents were so staunch that her own, her Mother's own mother refused to attend the wedding. Her dad worked in the shipyards in Glasgow. Glasgow was. That was the sort of the biggest industry. The. The river, whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

The estuary. That is the name, the river.

[David Sims]

I'm getting my. I want to get my geography straight here, you know. But Glasgow is a big sort of shipping area, especially back then, I think. So dad worked in the shipyards, apparently, at one point with the great Billy Connolly, the great Scottish comedian, the Begin. Is that. Is that what they call him?

[Griffin Newman]

I think they call him the Begin, I believe. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then the shipyards close. You know, the city falls on harder times. Dad worked apparently as a bar manager of a gay pub at one point.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Per Ramsay. That was a revolution for me. Dad brought him to the 90s, you know, he kind of, you know, kind of woke him up to new culture.

[Griffin Newman]

That's kind of cool story.

[David Sims]

Yeah. They lived in Mary Hill, which is like a typical sort of working class part of Glasgow, which is where Ratcatcher is set. She's got two sisters and a brother. She's got a brother named James.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

And of course, the main character of this film is named James. Ramsey says both of us had dark hair. My sisters are blonde. So we were the black sheep. And we were the ones essentially who kind of got in trouble, you know, we were like the bad kids. She liked to paint and film, she says, was not like a primary interest as a kid. But she did love the wizard of Oz, Douglas Sirk and Bette Davis. So she was watching something, she says that's the influence of her parents. She thought she might go to art school. She remembers. She says she watched wizard of Oz like 50 times. It's such an origin story for so many filmmakers, I feel like, especially of a prior generation back when, like, you just watch what was on TV or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

James Cameron recently cited it as his favorite movie of all time.

[David Sims]

Cool.

[Griffin Newman]

It came out that he had tried to develop Wicked, but I think he was implying that he tried to develop a movie out of the books before the musical, perhaps.

[David Sims]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

But that he was talking with Universal about doing Wicked for a while. Interesting because he loves wizard of Ozz so much.

[David Sims]

Interesting to consider Cameron doing a musical.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that's my question. Was he doing the musical version or was he.

[David Sims]

Or like an adaptation, a straightforward adaptation of the Maguire books.

[Griffin Newman]

Not totally clear.

[David Sims]

Don't look now. The Nick Rogue movie, one of my favorite movies.

[Griffin Newman]

One of the best movies.

[David Sims]

One of the best. But a scary movie. She saw it, she said, in an Inappropriate age. She was about 8. And it was like a sort of thunderbolt moment for her. She was so immersed in it. She said, I had a very happy childhood. So the films are more like showing her dark other worlds and interesting things. They're more active. It's not like that films were like an escape from some grim childhood. No.

[Griffin Newman]

And they don't feel like processing films, if that makes sense.

[David Sims]

Yes. She was sent to bed. Her parents found out she was watching. Don't Look Down. They didn't approve.

[Griffin Newman]

That made the dossier. J.J. decided to.

[David Sims]

You're on the fire button already. He's gone.

[Griffin Newman]

They sent her to bed.

[David Sims]

That's what she said in an interview. She does say so. It's her whole thing. She's like, that film wasn't my big thing. But also her parents are clearly big film fans. They showed her like Bette Davis again, Mildred Pierce, Alfred Hitchcock movies.

[Griffin Newman]

It's getting in there. But I do think a lot of my favorite filmmakers are people who find their way to filmmaking. Yeah. It is not the first obvious north star that they're heading toward. And the way she approaches film definitely tracks with someone who's working in other mediums of art first and applying other sort of ways of thinking too. Filmmaking rather than just a self referential feedback loop of what other filmmakers have done.

[David Sims]

She refers to her parents as products of a certain intellectual working class movement towards self improvement and self empowerment that has all but disappeared with the decline of communities and union power and all that. I think that's a very cogent way of thinking from Lynne Ramsey. She hits a teen, she hits her teenage years. Falls for an older boy and they start going to the Glasgow Film Theater where she starts seeing more European art films like Fastbinder movies. She sees Blue Velvet, basically this sort of arty anarchist boyfriend. She saw Ali Fiore Eats the Soul in an incredible movie. Blew her away. There was a dive cinema called the Salon in the West End of Glasgow that she liked. She also got very interested in photography. Glasgow had a visual arts center. There was a big dark room and she was basically like a self taught photographer.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool.

[David Sims]

Starts getting into that. She goes to Napier College in Edinburgh which I think is an art school. Studies fine art and photography. She likes, you know, Nan Golden, Robert Frank, Diane Arbus, Richard Billingham are some of the names she shouts out. She sees Meshes of the Afternoon, that crazy fucking, you know, Maya Darin short film that's always like on Satan, soundless. It's so cool. Worth watching, guys. It's like 20 minutes long. It's like nothing you've ever seen. That blew her mind. And she applied to film school the day she saw it. She said the first day she could apply, she was rejected by the Royal College, messed up her interview. So instead she goes to the National Film and Television School, which is in Buckinghamshire, which is, you know, outside London. Just giving you. I'm giving you kind of.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I'm liking it.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And one professor takes an interest in her called Walter La Salle, head of the camera department, who had won an Oscar for best cinematography for Zorba the Greek.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey, have you ever seen that?

[David Sims]

I've never seen Zorba the Great. Yeah, I haven't met him yet. Yeah, I'd like to. Yeah, I'm going to Greece.

[Griffin Newman]

Yet it feels like that's going to pop up in some weird self curated blind spot wash through series that you launch into once a month.

[David Sims]

Absolutely. So he saw an eye, apparently he plays a British writer in Before Midnight. You know how Before Midnight they're all.

[Griffin Newman]

Like hanging out table with Arian Labet and everything. You know what I think is interesting to consider with Lynne Ramsey too is that at this time when she's in film school and is seriously developing as an artist, the notion of Scottish film, especially to the rest of the world, is basically focused entirely around Bill Forsyth, who is a lovely filmmaker, a filmmaker I respect tremendously, but is about as local hero, Gregory's Girl, on the opposite end of the spectrum from Lynne Ramsey as well.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's kind of sweet. His Housekeeping adaptation of Housekeeping is really good. Like, but right, Gregory's Girl. Yeah, Gregory's Girl is, is, you know, it's cute.

[Griffin Newman]

But this is.

[David Sims]

Gregory's Girl is one of those films that gets foisted on you when you're British teenager where you're kind of like, yeah, it's all right.

[Griffin Newman]

Bill Forsyth is like the most gentle, thoughtful, kind of like winsome, these very kind of melancholy comedies. And I just think when you're dealing with countries that have smaller film identities and one director breaks out and especially when they become someone whose work is getting exported, you know, Bill Forsyth is getting his movies released by American major studios with American stars in them. It's like sometimes at film schools, maybe not like art driven film schools, they're like, well, obviously this is what our main product is now.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

We need to put out more things like Bill Forsyth movies and Lynne Ramsay is something absolutely one of one at that time.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I mean he sees her eye, you know, the type of film director who comes up as a photographer. It is kind of like, okay, you got a way of looking at things, not a way of telling a story, maybe. But, you know, big influences for her as she's going through film school. Bresson, as we just mentioned. Wow. He has a famous book called Notes on the Cinematographer that I own and have read, I recommend to anybody.

[Griffin Newman]

It's.

[David Sims]

It's an incredibly easy, hugely influential film school book, I feel.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just kind of like a lot of statements, right.

[David Sims]

It's basically this sort of stripped back, economical, non intellectual approach to filmmaking. Like it's Bresson at the time trying to be much like all these new wave guys are kind of like, let's, you know, do away with how things were done. And let's see, I have a new.

[Griffin Newman]

Approach and it's kind of him in Bill Maher mode.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And Mars been trying to get him on rules.

[Griffin Newman]

Bresson is too random for club random.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And too dead. The only issues she finds photography a way about. Of documenting things. So as a film director, that's how she sort of thinks about things. Like in Rag Hatcher, for example, she points to this moment where James mother has the hole in the tover stocking that she's always darning, and James tries to pull the hole out of sight when she's sleeping so she's perfect again. And it was an expression of his love for her boiled down to a little gesture, like she likes those kinds of little, little visual moment observation things.

[Griffin Newman]

Her visual style is very different than Bresson, who's a lot more kind of classical and formalist. But it was the storytelling and the writing and I think the sort of intensity of the emotions without the films being melodramatic that she really sparked to.

[David Sims]

She says, yeah, so at the time, a lot of films are kind of making calling card films. You know, you're trying to get this. This state money that'll maybe get you a feature film, right? And she says, I wasn't really good at that. I'm making like weird experimental shit that's not, you know, getting the same kind of attention.

[Griffin Newman]

The Criterion release has three of her short films. It's also on the Criterion app at the moment we're recording this.

[David Sims]

Her graduation film is called Small Deaths. I think that's one of them, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Isn't it Small Deaths, Killed the Day and Gas man are the three they have. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Producers saw it, asked, let's take this to Cannes. It won the Prix du Jury. Then she follows up with Kill of the Day wins another pre de jury for her third short film, which is called Gas Man.

[Griffin Newman]

As you said, very similar to Campion of like, you build a recurring reputation at Cannes with the short films and the sort of notion of like, we're invested in you whenever you make a feature, we're waiting.

[David Sims]

And she cast her brother James in all of them. So, you know, that connection is there. After the Cannes success, BBC comes a calling and says, write me a little feature film treatment, please. So you got BBC Scotland, you got Pathet, the big European financiers. And she hands him a 60 page treatment for Rat Catcher. She said it was basically a very messy script. Had some potential, obviously. Cause they gave her some fucking money. And she says, what's it about? Well, it's inspired by her own memories of growing up in Glasgow. The magical thing to her of being in a city that's right by the countryside, that you can go into the hills really easily. But obviously imaginative, weird stuff is in there. And, you know, I mean the rubbish strike of 1975. So, you know, Britain's winter of discontent when like a lot of the garbage unions went on strike. A lot of unions went on strike in general. Garbage piled up in the street. That's. That's happening in this movie in the background which.

[Griffin Newman]

Which sparks the rats, the titular.

[David Sims]

That's why there's so many rats that.

[Griffin Newman]

Need to be caught are because garbage is in the street. A sign of something having gone wrong. Rather than New York, where we just have garbage in the street all the time.

[Ben Hos]

It's gotten better.

[Griffin Newman]

It has, right.

[Ben Hos]

It has gotta. Unfortunately, you gotta give it up. You know, Adams for that. You know what it.

[David Sims]

We know him. It was a big thing for Eric.

[Ben Hos]

Sar has been doing a great job. Shout out to that lady.

[Griffin Newman]

And's also been doing a good job in Rat City. Right. He's been keeping things clean.

[Ben Hos]

Yeah, absolutely.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right, right. So she's got this little movie. She's got to find a kid. She looks at about a thousand kids from like working class backgrounds, schools, youth clubs and stuff like that. That cast a little boy called William Eady. I don't know. Did he.

[Griffin Newman]

Like almost everyone in this movie never acted right.

[David Sims]

It's not like he went on to act. Tommy Flanagan.

[Griffin Newman]

Tommy Flanagan has very familiar.

[David Sims]

Obviously, because he's one of those. There are those Scottish or even, you know, there are those British working class actors who do plenty of stuff in their home country. And then America is like, you're gonna play bikers over here, right? You want to come over here and play like, kind of bikers, sort of Southern guys. Like, you know, you've got the beard, you've got the face. Like, you could translate very, very nicely.

[Griffin Newman]

Tommy Flanagan. Ben is the one with the very distinctive facial scar.

[David Sims]

Scar on his face.

[Griffin Newman]

But he's in Braveheart, like, four years before this.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Which. When someone has a very unique feature to their face like that.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Very often, as David said, Hollywood goes like, got it. You're a character actor. We know where to place you. So he's. He was on Sons of Anarchy for many, many years. He's one of the Ravagers in Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

He's in Gladiator. He pops up in all sorts of stuff.

[David Sims]

So, you know, obviously there is a script. It has the dialogue. She says it's pretty close, but she does. She tries to encourage improvisation. All these kids. Tommy Flanagan, Da, you know, is pretty much the only, like, currently working, you know, like the professional actor.

[Griffin Newman]

Mandy Matthews, who played Ma has quite.

[David Sims]

A few credits, but.

[Griffin Newman]

But almost everyone else. Yeah. Not professional, first time.

[David Sims]

Everyone involved in this movie. Alwin Kuchler, who's still an incredible dp, is, you know, film school pal. But he, you know, he does. He's done. Him. He shot like Steve Jobs. He's. He's a great.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and this movie looks astonishing.

[David Sims]

Lucia Zuccheti is the editor. Jane. Jane Morton, the production designer. These are all film school pals for her as a tiny little crew. And. Right. Alan Kuchler shot sunshine.

[Griffin Newman]

He did indeed.

[David Sims]

He's done a lot of boils.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And they. They get along well or whatever. Good for them. Moving along here. All right, jj, I want to hear more.

[Griffin Newman]

Shot when she went to bed and when she woke up. Are there any, like, subchapter headings that indicate where that might be?

[David Sims]

She shot mostly in the neighborhood of Govan. I apologize if I'm saying that wrong. I do not know everything about Glasgow. A lot of little urban villages, sort of little suburb y. It's got the hills. Stunningly beautiful. Kind of ugly beautiful is the way she puts it. So she liked that. She says it is a bit of a dodgy area, you know, but like that. That was obviously kind of the vibe that she was going for. It is a period piece, sort of like a quiet period piece, because you don't really think about it. Because I feel like especially American audiences are like. Like, I don't know. Is Britain like this now? You could tell me. I fucking have no idea. Unless Someone's wearing like a powdered wig.

[Griffin Newman]

Is this a sci fi movie? Maybe it's set in their future, but.

[David Sims]

It'S set in the 70s, which is obviously her childhood era. It was a frequent subject when it was released in Scottish tabloids because I guess the Glasgow mayor, Pat Lally, is in the film. And obviously the film has this somewhat shocking.

[Griffin Newman]

The bathtub scene.

[David Sims]

Yeah. It has a film with essentially underage nudity. Now it's a sort of platonic and sort of sweet scene is how she intends it. It's these kids playing together where there's kind of. It's like they're almost on the edge of like, you know, Roman, you know, like they're in that kind of like in between stage.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's sort of pointedly unsexual that that's the point, that it's sort of like they are at a stage before it would turn into that. And it is very much in the tradition of like a lot of the photographers you were talking about who were a huge influence on her. There's a documentary I love.

[David Sims]

She admits it's risque. She meant it innocent as an innocent scene. But she says she was lucky to get it. It was the toughest scene she ever shot.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a documentary I really love that I forgot about until I was sort of reading about this called Tierney the Mother Project, who is a photographer that I really love, but had a photography show that caused a lot of hand wringing in the way that she photographed her children and her mother and things like that. I don't know. That's just a recommendation of the film.

[David Sims]

But yes, Mike Lee apparently loved the film as speaking of him earlier makes.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of sense.

[David Sims]

And we should talk about it and then we will discuss how it went to Canada. Great. Okay. Talk about the film first.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Rat Catcher. Now, it is, what, 90 minute movie.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, 93, I think, soaking wet.

[David Sims]

And it is.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a wet film. It's very damp, obviously.

[David Sims]

It has canals, it has a drowning, but it also is just damp when. Even when they're not in the canal, everyone's a damp ass. Country Scotland, I love it there.

[Griffin Newman]

You feel like everything's getting sprayed down a little bit before every day.

[David Sims]

And it's, you know, it's a film that actually has a. What we would think is a hooky plot of like, it starts with this boy is sort of responsible or kind of adjacent to the death of another boy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And has guilt over it. But that's not really what, you know, that's not really the plot of the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It is basically an accident.

[David Sims]

Yes. But he feels guilty and he's not telling anyone about it. You know, like he's like nursing a secret or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

And I do think, look, these things still happen all the time and are tragic. But I also think in an earlier time they happened even more frequently. I'm obsessed with the. Just to cite another documentary that I watch a lot. Tell them anything you want. The Maury Sendak documentary that Spike Jonze and Lance Bangs made in the last couple years of his life when they were working on where the Wild Things Are. I think it's like an incredible 40 minute thing.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

That's mostly about Maurice Sendak's thoughts on death and how death obsessed he has been his entire life.

[David Sims]

The river is the river climb. Just the Glasgows river is called the River Clyde.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you. But he talks a lot about in that. How he had a similar incident when he was a child where he was playing like catch out in the street and the ball rolled and. And this boy got hit by a truck.

[David Sims]

Oh God.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, and I like to think about it. It's terrible. But that the mother of this child. That he was like beside himself, that he wouldn't leave his room, that he felt so guilty, that he felt cursed.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And that the mother of this child came over to specifically say like, it's not your fault and I forgive you. You know that like these things sometimes just happen as. And that is in sort of what I was saying about Lynne Ramsey. The kind of thing we don't want to think about. That these things can happen in sort of such a meaningless way in which there is not someone you can really blame sometimes, especially when you're dealing with like children with underdeveloped brains. Well, that's the thing to understand the consequences of what they're doing.

[Ben Hos]

You really.

[David Sims]

It's.

[Ben Hos]

So how do you process something like that? You just don't have the life experience. You're too young to really be able to like fully grasp it.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean this is like a really scary thing about being a child. Right. Your parents and your teachers and everyone around you try to teach you as much as they can. But in a lot of cases you really only learn things when you come close to them being a problem. Right. When you recognize that something almost just went horribly awry and the stakes suddenly become real inside of you. Whatever it is like touching your hand over the stove. Right. Like is the smallest example of that. And then like your brain now fully understands my Parents aren't just telling me to not touch the stove because they're mean. If I held it longer, I would be scarred, you know? Yeah. And this is the kind of thing where you're like, the difference of a second. The difference of 15 degrees and movement is he jumps out of the water, and it's like, that was scary. That almost turned really bad. And instead it turns bad.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

They're sort of just roughhousing and the boy dies.

[Ben Hos]

And I think it's kind of because of the boots.

[David Sims]

Yes. The gumboots. Wellies.

[Ben Hos]

His mother insists that he wear boots.

[Griffin Newman]

Trying to get him to dress up for church.

[Ben Hos]

And they're really, like, tall.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Ben Hos]

Rubber boots.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

And they fill up and I think, pull him down.

[David Sims]

Right. It's horrible. And it happens right away. And, you know, it's like how the.

[Griffin Newman]

Film begins and it happens in a kind of elusive way. It's not. The movie is not.

[David Sims]

Then you have James's mother hugging him, saying, I thought it was you. You know, like, you know, expressing her. Her fear.

[Ben Hos]

And the other thing, too. You're almost, like, kind of blaming him. It's done in a way where it's not. Not showing him to be evil.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you've also barely gotten to know this character.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

It actually starts with the other character.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hos]

It almost switches on you.

[Griffin Newman]

And she's filming all of this in this fairly poetic way where you. You're kind of struggling to get your head around what's happening.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

But the thing I wanted to say is that if you become more aware that no one knows how to swim.

[David Sims]

Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure.

[Ben Hos]

So it's not like he could dive in.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hos]

And save his friend. He doesn't know how to swim. He doesn't know.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

He's not a lifeguard.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I mean, it's like a joke I made when we did our Bright Star episode years ago. But that's a movie where arguably the central conflict is, guy doesn't have a coat.

[David Sims]

Oh, God. He really.

[Griffin Newman]

Winter is coming.

[David Sims]

You know, cold.

[Griffin Newman]

Like you do just. It is always kind of striking to see films about certain communities, especially in certain eras, where you're just like. There is just this huge vulnerability here. Yeah. Anyone could kind of drown in the water at any time. And that speaks to the way that the community reacts to all of this, which, like, is. It is not the most shocking thing that has ever happened in a community, you know?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

Well, they're also so desensitized because they're just living in these awful conditions.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And and you just feel the pressure and the tension of everything that's happening.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's a tough, it's a tough opening. And the film is not as dark as, you know, like, after that. No, like, it's obviously, it's a, it's a gritty film and it's, it's like, you know, about kids living sort of rough lives. But, Kes, the film you mentioned earlier, the Kenloach film, is, you know, this sort of like, searing work of social realism that was like such a, a, such a big movie when it came out, is Ken Lich's first feature film. And A Boy and His Hawk. It's about this, like, really working class, you know, dysfunctional kind of working class kid in Yorkshire who, who's struggling at school and struggling at home and then he gets really into falconry and you're just Hawk.

[Griffin Newman]

What a dumb idiot.

[David Sims]

It's a kestrel, obviously. That's why it's cast.

[Griffin Newman]

Laughing, my ass. My dumb Happy Meal ass.

[David Sims]

You know, it's Britain's old yellow killer. Like, in that. It's like this movie where it's like kids have to watch it.

[Griffin Newman]

Generational. Yeah.

[David Sims]

But even as a kid, you're like, I mean, when, and when you're watching Cass, you're like the, Something bad is gonna happen to the bird.

[Griffin Newman]

You feel it the whole time.

[David Sims]

Which, like, I'm sorry to spoil, but like, you know, something bad happens to the bird and, you know, it. You know, like, this is not going to end in this, like, sweeping, happy way. And whereas Ratcatcher does not work that way. That is not how Ratcatcher. It's not like it's building to a tragedy. It starts with a tragedy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And then it's about. It actually kind of ends happy fully.

[Griffin Newman]

It kind of does in a way.

[David Sims]

Like, it certainly, it kind of fakes you out that something bad has happened. And then it's like, but nothing bad has happened. And actually he's probably grown a little bit.

[Ben Hos]

See, I had questions about that and maybe we wait to, to get to it later because I was actually unclear about the ending and if it was.

[David Sims]

Real or I think it's real. I mean, you could interpret it as like, I guess a weird kind of fantasy or dream, but I don't think so. I think it's more like, you know, he brushes up against a dark feeling in this. Yeah. But I don't know, maybe I'm ringing him.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I don't know. I, I, I. Oh, no.

[David Sims]

Actually, right in the credits, you see him in the credit.

[Griffin Newman]

I, I, I.

[David Sims]

You think it's, you think he dies?

[Griffin Newman]

I think so, but I think you could read it either way.

[David Sims]

I don't know. You're probably right.

[Griffin Newman]

I also think the thing about that this movie, this movie does not for, for starting with an accidental death, handle it in any plotty way whatsoever.

[David Sims]

Right. It's not as he's covering up a crime movie movie, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Which you could just immediately, your brain is trained from watching so many other shittier things to assume that has to be how this progresses. And if it's not doing that, it's going to be a movie specifically of intense suffering and processing. If it's not interested in the plotty aspects of the fallout of the death, then certainly it has to be entirely about this boy working through what he's experienced.

[David Sims]

But actually you sort of forget about it for a while because other stuff's happening and then it sort of starts to brewing back up in a way.

[Griffin Newman]

That I think is a more accurate reflection of real life. You know, I mean, I, I do you read about horrible things that human beings go through, and my first question is always, like, what do they have for like breakfast the next morning? You know, I get that we watch movies that, and read books that depict it as like a person just lies in a bed weeping for six months until they're resolved. And you're like, but you do just have to go on living in some way, you know, you have to like, go for a walk and like buy paper towels at the store, you know, and like make small talk with people who don't know what you've gone through and all these sorts of things and that you can go through these waves of sometimes feeling. I think I say this is not someone who has experienced this level of tragedy before, but that I think there are sometimes almost like catatonic states of calm, you know, especially in the immediate aftermath. It's not the kind of like mystic river, fall to your knees explosion that we all are used to seeing these things depicted as.

[David Sims]

Is that his daughter in there?

[Griffin Newman]

I have heard some things that have led me to believe, based on the man with the weird neck tattoo yelling very loudly, that it's his daughter in there.

[David Sims]

That's one of those movies where Clint Eastwood's mystic river and Sean Levy talks about this in the book he wrote, you know, and first he says, like, Sean Levy, director of Taika Waititi, comes in and he is riffing on whatever that.

[Griffin Newman]

Epic. Epic.

[David Sims]

No, no. Sean Levy, who wrote the, the Journalist, wrote the Clint book, talks about you know, obviously Clint shoots one to two takes. Yeah. And that is like, I think the first take. And you are kind of like fucking credit to Penn that he got there right away. Like, he had to. And I guess Penn knew I have to like, I can't just like work on this sort few days.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, is that 50% of his Oscar win? Not even the effectiveness of the scene, but them being like, oh, and he had to go from like 0 to 100 and they wrapped for lunch.

[David Sims]

He wins the Oscar because he'd lost for Dead Man Walking.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And people sort of forget that. That, that at the time was considered this crazy loss.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a little bit equivalent to Denzel, Malcolm X, where you're like, this performance is so historic. How in the world could we ignore this?

[David Sims]

And you know, that's part of it. But also, yes, it was a big, showy performance. It's just so annoying because then he, Penn did win his deserved Oscar for Milk. And we could have just waited and.

[Griffin Newman]

With one battle, which he is obviously phenomenal in, you're just sort of like, yeah, but does Sean Penn need three Oscars?

[David Sims]

He certainly doesn't.

[Griffin Newman]

No, he certainly doesn't.

[David Sims]

He doesn't. But he is very good in it.

[Griffin Newman]

He's unbelievable in it. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Who did Penn beat? Oh, well, he beat Bill Murray. Bill Murray, Right. Which would have been nice. That would have been nice. It would have been anybody. Johnny Depp for Pirates of the Caribbean, which was like, that was a moment. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then you've heard of that.

[David Sims]

He played his character.

[Ben Hos]

Those guys. Everything's been chill, regular.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm realizing this is like a really normal category of well balanced men.

[David Sims]

So Ben Kingsley and Jude Law are the other nominees.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

So, yeah, I guess. Is Ben Kingsley the chillest? Yes. He's famously not that chill.

[Griffin Newman]

I have only heard heard that he is the most intense human being.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Dramatic.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He's just laser focused.

[David Sims]

I mean, it's never been canceled or anything like. But, you know, I mean, he's. He's gotten his, you know, he's gotten in some, some naughty trouble with the ladies. You know, he's had a couple of fez or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

I would have to say that he's gotten in some naughty trouble with the ladies, I think. Let's be clear.

[David Sims]

Give it to Jude for Cold Mountain. Let's throw, let's put an Oscar on Cold Mountain.

[Griffin Newman]

When you say another one, Naughty Trouble with the Ladies, it sounds like you're talking like that guy maybe likes to fuck too much.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I know. And doesn't he have like, he has.

[Griffin Newman]

Kids with a many, many, many kids?

[David Sims]

She has seven.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, that's.

[David Sims]

Seven is a high number.

[Griffin Newman]

Anytime he's not judging, anytime he's promoting like $150 million movie where he has a funny mustache and plays a villain, they're like, what drew you to this role? And he's like, seven children, five mothers, athlete numbers.

[David Sims]

You know when you start hearing about those athletes who are like, yeah, I got like 14 kids. What do you want from me?

[Griffin Newman]

She's the Nick Cannon of the uk.

[Ben Hos]

I was going to say, I think they are on a text thread.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. That is wild though, that you're like, right. That, that that best actor category is four of the most extreme men on the planet and just Randy. Jude Law. David. Yes. Hello?

[David Sims]

Hello.

[Griffin Newman]

Nope, you cut me off. Oh, hello, fresh. Whoa, let me finish speaking.

[David Sims]

I. I so rarely cut you off.

[Griffin Newman]

Eleven years in, I still have some new tricks.

[David Sims]

Hello, fresh.

[Griffin Newman]

Hello, fresh. This new year, nothing hits like home cooking. Boy, do I know it. Hellofresh brings back the joy of the kitchen and, and the kitchen's been joyless for far too long with right. Recipes that feel good and taste delicious night after night. Feel good and taste delicious. That's a potent mix.

[David Sims]

Isn't your kitchen super delightful because your oven's filled with action figures or whatever?

[Griffin Newman]

That was an earlier.

[David Sims]

Okay, okay.

[Griffin Newman]

An earlier era. Yes.

[David Sims]

Look. Hello, Fresh. It's a very, very. It's. I feel like it's the number one meal kit service because like I'm always. Whenever you see one of those kind of recommendation websites with like, ah, here are all the options. Hellofresh, always at the top.

[Griffin Newman]

It does feel like that, doesn't it?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Over a hundred mouthwatering recipes each week. I'm gonna take a look at some. I got some a loaded shawarma style chicken and rice bar. 30 minutes it takes to make this. I like that protein veggie packed difficulty medium.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, what's the easiest?

[David Sims]

Okay, you want an easy one?

[Griffin Newman]

Give me the easiest.

[David Sims]

All right, listen. One pan cheesy chicken tortilla melts dark meat chicken green pepper spicy cream sauce. 20 minutes difficulty easy. This looks pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

I like every one of those words.

[David Sims]

I love how like the menu. It like, it tells you like what are the allergens? What may be, you know, little things might you need extra like some, some butter, some cooking oil, but almost everything else is there different?

[Griffin Newman]

People eat differently. And with hellofresh, you can choose from 35 plus high protein weekly recipes, including new Mediterranean and GLP friendly options made with with wholesome ingredients like sustainably sourced seafood and 100% antibiotic and hormone free chicken.

[David Sims]

Wow. They got steak, they got seafood, surf and turf, three times more seafood options at no extra cost. Seasonal produce, stone fruit, corn on the cob that feels more summery, but okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Look, maybe you want to eat for the season. You want, want to hear this tagline? Yeah.

[David Sims]

Because when dinner tastes this good, nothing hits like home cooking. Yeah. So. Hellofresh. I've used this. You should too. Go to hellofresh.com check10fm. That's check10fm.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I know this. This is a deal they've had for a long time. And you can finish speaking because there's no added bonus onto this deal to.

[David Sims]

Get 10 free meals.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

Exactly. And what a free Zwilling knife.

[Griffin Newman]

A free Zwilling knife. That's a wonderful $144.99 value.

[David Sims]

You are correct on your third box offer valid while supplies last. Free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. But hellofresh.com check 10fm for 10 free meals and that freeze willing knife on your third box.

[Griffin Newman]

Goodbye FRE. David.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I got a challenge for you.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Do your best impression of a chime. This is interesting, right? Like I'm like. If I say the word chime, how do you vocalize that? Is it like or is that by making it multiples? Does that define.

[David Sims]

I feel like now we're in ring territory. Not chime.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it like a pring? Do you know what I'm saying? Ben, do you have any opinions on this?

[Ben Hos]

I'm trying to think of my take on a chime.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

Kind of like.

[Griffin Newman]

You'Re more of a train kind of thing. Here's my kind of unconventional impression of a chime.

[David Sims]

Okay, I'm hearing. I'm listening.

[Griffin Newman]

Hello, I'm Chime. I'm changing the way people bank. Yes. There's a company called Chime.

[David Sims]

That's so true.

[Griffin Newman]

And they're sponsoring this episode.

[David Sims]

Chime's got fee free and smarter banking built for you. It's not those old school banks that charge you overdrafts and monthly fees. Built for you. Not the 1%. Chime unlocks smarter banking for everyday people with products like MyPay, which gives you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Some old banks still don't do this.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's my impression of one of those old banks.

[David Sims]

Banks. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's another fee for you. And here's my impression of Chime.

[David Sims]

Hey, what's up, man?

[Griffin Newman]

No fees, baby.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Forget overdraft fees. Forget minimum balance fees. Forget monthly fees. Chime turns everyday spending into real rewards and progress. You get paid when you say up to $500. You can earn up to 3.5% APY on your savings, which is eight times higher than a traditional bank. That is pretty high.

[Griffin Newman]

That is pretty high.

[David Sims]

It's rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. They got real humans on the line 24 7. Many a bank cannot say that. Can definitely confirm that.

[Griffin Newman]

Very true. The last time I called my bank, I think I got like a, like a wildebeest on the line. There's just something barking at me.

[David Sims]

Some banks actually just have plant sense of the phone.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Look, they've got a new card that unlocks safer credit building and cash back with everyday spending. So imagine cash back and credit filling with your own money. Finally on the same card. That's kind of cool. No annual fees, no interest, no strings attached. And when you get qualifying direct deposits, you get 1.5% cash back on eligible time card purchases. So I think my younger self would have benefited from this. Griff. When I was getting used to banking.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

As opposed to the babe in the woods that I was going to wherever I went. I can tell you, but I probably shouldn't say it on this end.

[Griffin Newman]

Bank of the woods.

[David Sims]

I banked with a woods witch. It was weird.

[Griffin Newman]

It's run by a wallaby.

[David Sims]

Put my money into a tree, to a hole in a tree and to go go get the money from the hole.

[Griffin Newman]

Listen, you can switch to Chime in just a few minutes. It's gonna be one of the easiest moves you ever make. You don't just switch banks. You upgrade to a smarter fee. Free. I like saying that. Free way of managing your money. You'll never, never feel more in control of your paycheck.

[David Sims]

Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking. Be free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.comblankcheck that is chime.com blankcheck.

[Griffin Newman]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services. A secured Chime Visa credit card and my pay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges see chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+status only. Otherwise, 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms.

[David Sims]

Rat catcher.

[Griffin Newman]

Rat catcher.

[David Sims]

James Our little boy lives in Glasgow, but sometimes he takes this bus to, like, the end of the road, right? And he, like, just goes and fucks around in this kind of, like, unbuilt or, like. I think it's under construction housing estate that's, like utopian. Right by this field of wheat. Exactly. Like, it's like. And it's suddenly, like. There's so much color like that. That shot of, you know, like, through the window of, like, this blue sky and the, you know, like, suddenly it's not fucking raining.

[Griffin Newman]

It is the moment of, like. In my opinion, it's the moment of extreme transcendence in this film when he's sort of exploring around this. I was gonna say abandoned, but it's unfinished, in progress home. And looking through its window and seeing this, like, insane, picturesque kind of Terrence Malick field of golden wheat. And then he jumps through the window into it and runs through it. And it feels like he's jumping into a painting, like he's jumping into a Van Gogh or something. Yeah.

[David Sims]

So he's got that. That's nice.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's like the aspiration to escape his entire life and then.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not just about the death that he's experienced, but it's like he's surrounded by, like, constant pain, effort, struggle.

[Ben Hos]

And he's also constantly surrounded by people. I mean, it is such cramped living conditions. He shares quite a small apartment with his family.

[Griffin Newman]

No one seems happy. Everyone is going through it, but it.

[David Sims]

Is not, again, nil by mouth.

[Griffin Newman]

Of like.

[David Sims]

This is about an experience a boy is having of, like, extreme social neglect. It's more just like their lives are fairly shitty.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And he's got some siblings. You know, his dad is, you know, always, you know, seems to be, you know, on the lash sometimes. Not to.

[Griffin Newman]

On the lash.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Does that mean three sheets to the wind?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Get. Going out. Getting. Getting on the lash, you would say, essentially, like, what are we doing tonight? We're gonna go out on the lashmates, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I like that. It is basically not some movie that's, like, made for, like, a government official to watch and be like, we need to send more money. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's some movies like that where it's like, this is a statement film about, like, you know, an extreme condition. It's more just like, no, man, this is just what life is like for a lot of people. It's.

[Griffin Newman]

It's weird.

[David Sims]

Especially at this time, you know, in the 70s, in urban. Urban situations. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Without feeling like it's trying to push points.

[David Sims]

Exactly. Just kind of over the top. So. But, you know, there's the prong of, like, he has these kind of, like, magical little adventures. And then there's the progenitor's family life is kind of like, a bit dodgy. And then there's the gang, the Neds, I think, is what they call them in Scotland. In England, London, we call them yobs.

[Griffin Newman]

Who regularly target this young girl, Margaret. Margaret Ann, played by the actress.

[David Sims]

His name is Leanne Mullen.

[Griffin Newman]

She's pretty phenomenal.

[David Sims]

She's great. She's great. And like, James and Margaret. And I feel like the vibe is just like they're just both a little different, maybe a little more sensitive, a little less interested. But Margaret Ann's obviously sort of being targeted in this, like, vaguely sexual way. Like, they're kind of, like, flirting with her. They're kind of, you know, like, crushing on her and they're being horrible to her.

[Griffin Newman]

I think she. Ramsay captures a really fascinating energy, which is sort of. These boys have targeted, like, the nerdy girl with the glasses. Right. They throw her glasses in the river so she can't see. It is clearly being motivated by sexual energy. Like them struggling to come to. They're these pubescent kids with developing urges.

[David Sims]

And that's why they're all insane to each other, too. I mean, this is all, like, awful boy at that age.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's like, easy.

[David Sims]

My boys are gonna live in padded cells from, like, age 13 to 20. Just.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just cutting that off just by padding now.

[David Sims]

You might as well. They need it.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's this thing that, like, I just don't know if I've ever seen another movie capture. And especially because it does it without explaining itself, of, like, they're so horned up in a general sense that they target the person who they view to be kind of, like, least attractive or conventionally desirable and then just kind of fuck with her. They're not, like, violently attacking her physically and they're also not making moves on her. But everything just has this kind of, like, odd, unprocessed energy around it. And James sort of figures out how to, like, throw himself in front of her.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Kind of divert the attention in a.

[Griffin Newman]

Way that both, like, stops them from really inflicting harm upon her in any number of ways, but also makes him kind of seem like one of the lads in a way where then they aren't going to attack him. There's the moment where he lies on top of her that I find so effective.

[David Sims]

Well, where the boys are like, go on, go on, go on. You know, like, there's this kind of like there.

[Griffin Newman]

There's this energy of like, someone should get on top of her and dry hump her. Wouldn't that be funny? Right? And what he does is gets on top of her and like planks on her. He's inventing planking and basically gets to like, do the move of I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah. To stop them from doing anything bad. When he knows exactly what he's doing.

[David Sims]

Little sacrifice.

[Griffin Newman]

He's just right, blocking. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I should point out, obvious we haven't mentioned this, but this film, you know, they're. They're talking in their sort of Glasgow dialect. Did you guys throw on the subtitles or would you do it for sure? Free ball it on this one.

[Griffin Newman]

This is one of the rare English language films that was just straight up distributed in America in theaters in America with burned in subtitles.

[David Sims]

Burn that onto the fucking negative right now, baby.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't even worry about it. Don't even try. It's.

[David Sims]

I am very, like, you know, even to this day, I'm very. I'm fine listening to regional British accents and watch movies and I can discern what they're saying. But this is definitely one. Especially also because of the verite thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Say it's got, like, Altman, everyone yelling over each other, laughing, eight characters. Let's.

[David Sims]

Let's throw in that one ink and let's hit that button right there.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey, baby, it's fine, it's fine. Don't feel bad. We put him there for a reason.

[David Sims]

Yeah. So you've got the sort of really grim stuff we're talking about. And then there'll be moments like one of the boys in the gang gets a little pet mouse and they're all fucking around with the mouse and you're like, jesus, this is, you know, animal violence stuff is so, like, uncomfortable.

[Griffin Newman]

And they're all trying to catch these rats, but then you're like, is this gonna turn into a torture situation?

[David Sims]

And then they tie the mouse to a balloon and they make it fly. And then there's this, like little fantasy sequence of the balloon Going to space.

[Ben Hos]

Yeah, but it's so kid. Like, it has this kid logic.

[David Sims]

They're like, that's what it's going to do.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

That is kind of wonderful and fanciful, although also distressing.

[Griffin Newman]

But you also.

[David Sims]

It's kind of a Lynn Ramsey vibe. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep. It's. It's a real, like, core text moment of her entire worldview as an artist, in my opinion. And it speaks to, like, the overriding theme of this movie, which is like, is there any way to get out of this, to get out of this energy, out of these social situations, out of poverty, out of what is happening in our local government? You know, the dream of just like, could I jump through a window and run through the weed? He can literally do that, but he can't stay. It also feels like these rats are here and we cannot cohabitate with them. But also, he doesn't want the rats to be murdered by these bullies. If you tie a rat to a balloon, can the rat just go to the moon and live there and be happy?

[Ben Hos]

But this is actually a pet store mouse. And I distinction is important.

[David Sims]

It's a little white mouse.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

It's also one of those things, not to be cynical, because I don't think Lynn Ramsey made this movie with any cynicism. But like. Of like, okay, you know, I'm making my indie movie. I have my little budget, like my sort of £2 million or whatever it is. I get to do one kind of ambitious.

[Griffin Newman]

10% of my budget's on this one.

[David Sims]

Let's set aside a little bit for, like, something that's a little outside of whatever I'm going for, generally. Right. And. And it sticks in your head. You know, it's like if you're. And again, if you're a can. And you're like, what films have uncertain regard this year? And you watch that, you're like, I can't forget the movie where the mouse was on the balloon.

[Griffin Newman]

But in Film Festival, Mate, you're watching four movies a day.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe you're watching this movie at 9:00am or maybe this is the last movie you watched in a day at like 11am this is one of those things where you're gonna lean forward and even if you don't like it, say, who the is this?

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Who made this?

[David Sims]

Who's this now?

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

And.

[Griffin Newman]

And just a correction of another plot detail I got wrong. Something that I never do on this podcast. The Ryan, the. The friend. The boy who dies at the beginning. The mother made him put on the boots. Specifically because he was going to visit his father in prison.

[David Sims]

Oh, that's right. That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

There's already right, this grimness, the grimness.

[David Sims]

The inevitability gives James, the boy. She gives him Ryan's.

[Griffin Newman]

Those are the sandals. Nicer shoes she gives.

[Ben Hos]

And she had gone out to get those sandals while he ran off to play.

[David Sims]

And let's wrap it up this episode. I can't think about this.

[Griffin Newman]

But she also has that scene where she wants to look at him because he reminds her of him and is saying, like, your eyes are the same, not like, seeing you reminds me of his death. Like. Like, is your face close enough that I can still experience some of it? And that scene is his mother pushing him to give this woman the moment she needs. And he just doesn't even know how to react. You know, he doesn't push back against it in an extreme way. He doesn't start crying. It's just like, I. I don't understand the intensity of emotion happening right now.

[Ben Hos]

And it's very genuine of that age, too, the way that he plays this just like. Like Frozen. I don't know what to do. I feel like that character, he does it a few times or even adults talk to him, and he's just like, unable to respond or communicate or even just react to them.

[Griffin Newman]

And. And Margaret Ann clearly becomes like his one ally, the one person who he feels some kind of solace and understanding from. But also, they don't talk that much. And when they're talking, they're not talking about their feelings at length. It is basically just the two of them sensing there are simpatico energies here. We both feel overwhelmed by the same things happening around us. We're both trying to reckon with the things happening inside of us. Yeah, right.

[David Sims]

Me, I don't know. I'd probably just be like, I'm gonna go to law school, maybe get a great job and just fucking pull my bootstraps, work for J.D.

[Griffin Newman]

Vance.

[David Sims]

Oh, that's so true. And you know, Hillbilly Elegy is like a really similar film in terms of quality and, like, well, better.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a better film. It's a better film and it had a better effect on our world culture. I know you're saying that this movie is pointedly not kind of an issues like driving a point movie.

[David Sims]

It's funny because I look at my Elegy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

No, no. You look at Hillbilly. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You want to talk about a statement movie? The statement was elect him.

[David Sims]

It's God bless, Run House Howard. Who has made films I like and seems like a guy with a head in his shoulders and has said, like I said publicly, like, I'm sort of a little baffled and saddened by J.D. vance.

[Griffin Newman]

I do not think that was anyone's intent in making that film. And in fact, many people have psychoanalyzed, including people close to him, that he felt rejected by negative rejection from Hollywood. Much like Donald Trump culture.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That the cool celebrities didn't like his movie. Who knows? Radicalized.

[David Sims]

Personally, I think JD Van is no good.

[Griffin Newman]

Personally, I think we live in hell.

[Ben Hos]

But personally, I like to say, because I agree with Jamel, that he is a pigman.

[Griffin Newman]

He is a pigman. But Ron Howard, another great take from J1.

[David Sims]

You don't want to have made that movie. I'm sure Ron Howard's like, ah, fuck, why'd I make that?

[Griffin Newman]

I wake up every morning and go, oh, thank God. I still haven't made Hillbilly Elegy. For all of my other mistakes, I have yet to direct Hillbilly Elegy once. It's a nice thing to remind myself. So I have empathy for Ron Howard in that position.

[David Sims]

Ron Howard, post Rush, which is one of my favorite movies. He's made a film I really love the sports film Rush.

[Griffin Newman]

One of the weirdest runs.

[David Sims]

Has been on one of the weirdest fucking runs. It's crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not good. It's not bad. It's just kind of bad. Bizarre.

[David Sims]

I'm gonna read it to you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

In the heart of the sea. Wailing epic. Kind of a great idea. The movie didn't go over alternate telling of Moby Dick. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, what a giant financial decision.

[David Sims]

True story of Moby Dick, but right big.

[Griffin Newman]

Starring like three Marvel actors.

[David Sims]

Inferno the and forgotten Robert Lang.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. That was the. Look, let me do something safe. Inferno will work. And it's like the moment Inferno comes out, people were like, we decided we.

[David Sims]

Hate these, we don't care anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's like, you hate them now.

[David Sims]

I think it cleared enough internationally to not be a disaster, but domestic ignored in America.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Solo A Star wars story. He did the mop up job on that bang up job there, bronnie.

[Griffin Newman]

Normal.

[David Sims]

Hillbilly Elegy normal.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Thirteen lives. The one I haven't seen and the one everyone always tells me like, you know what that movie is sneaky good. The Ty Diver movie with Viggo and Ferrell. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yep. And I'm trying to remember who the third guy is.

[David Sims]

Edgerton. I bet you he plays a slightly.

[Griffin Newman]

Taciturn Fellow friend of the podcast who's a screenwriter. I remember telling me that summer that there was a screener link circulating that him and all his writer friends on a group text had watched. Yeah. And they were just like, this thing is winning Best Picture.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, we've talked about it. And then Amazon was like, we fart that out in August.

[Griffin Newman]

Amazon was like, what if we put it in theaters for 30 minutes? And the theaters were like, you know, that's less time than the movie runs.

[David Sims]

I was like, it's too late.

[Griffin Newman]

And they're like, but it's going to be prominently placed on the streaming service. And they're like, no, it's a drop down option when you're trying to pick how many rolls of toilet paper you want to buy at once.

[David Sims]

And then last year there was Eden, which was at festivals the year before.

[Griffin Newman]

Which our man Bilga has been banging the drum for. You guys don't understand how weird this thing is.

[David Sims]

It is weird. I watch. It's on Netflix now. You can just watch it. You're allowed.

[Griffin Newman]

Huh?

[David Sims]

And I watch it. And again, I was kind of hoping for like, okay. And I was pretty disappointed.

[Griffin Newman]

But it is weird, right?

[David Sims]

It's definitely weird. And it's definitely a movie where if I, like, sat you down and was like, just watch this film.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You know, survivalist sort of of true story thing about people who live on a weird island in the Galapagos. Sydney Sweeney, Daniel Brul. Weirdest Cass he ever saw. And then you watch it and then I'm like, who do you think directed that? Ron Howard would be the 800th name you said, like, you would go through. You'd be naming dead people and I'd be like, no, it was Ron Howard. And you'd be like, no, it wasn't. Was it Ida Lupino? You know, like, you would just keep. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The most interesting thing about Eden is imagining him saying the directions out loud on set.

[David Sims]

That right.

[Griffin Newman]

Right now, Sydney, what. What I'm going to need for you in this take is to take one tit. Just one tit out. Yeah.

[David Sims]

How many movies has he made with nudity? I'm sure he's a couple. But not sort of Spielberg in that way of, like, it's not really his wheelhouse.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But hey, you know, sometimes you got to just go move to the Galapagos Islands.

[Griffin Newman]

Do we even know what he's doing next? The other thing.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's making a war movie with Adam Driver, which kind of sounds cool.

[Griffin Newman]

That one does.

[David Sims]

Knows Vietnam movie.

[Griffin Newman]

He Also, like, has made like seven documentaries in the last.

[David Sims]

He's like, are you a boomer icon? I'm putting that shit on Hulu right now.

[Griffin Newman]

Someone made a Reddit thread in R blankies that was like, why doesn't Ron Howard get discussed more? He feels like an obvious perfect candidate for the show. And people were arguing, is he more of a journeyman? Is he sort of like a studio guy? Does he have a strong enough identity? And I just responded it. 32 films plus eight documentaries.

[David Sims]

Crazy. It's crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, that's why we're not doing him.

[David Sims]

That's one of the reasons.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's like, there are other reasons, but that one settles it.

[David Sims]

I'd have him on. Great voice.

[Griffin Newman]

Great voice.

[David Sims]

Remember, you guys might not know this. He was the voice of Arrested Development. You guys know that.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know what, Ben? You might have to cut this out.

[David Sims]

Ben's looking at me like I'm an asshole right now. Crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

You might have to cut this out. Ben, do you know that he was Opie on the Andy Griffith Show?

[David Sims]

They're right. Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

It's one of Hollywood's best kept secrets.

[David Sims]

So we're kind of done with the plot of Ratcatcher almost. I'm trying to think. Okay, so. Yeah, exactly. So he befriends this girl. He fucks around with the boys who are tough.

[Griffin Newman]

He tries to find his balance in between staying on their good side and not becoming one of them.

[David Sims]

Which is interesting when you think about the Bone Temple, which is the other movie we'll be discussing today. We're doing back to back records.

[Griffin Newman]

Watch these two movies.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then we're recording these two episodes back to back. And it is fascinating how much the movies echoed each other in a lot of ways. It is that sort of like, turning point in a boy's life that both movies are really, really obsessed with. Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

This is an age where you are not mature enough yet to really have empathy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hos]

It makes me think of the Mulaney joke of where 13 year olds are the meanest.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hos]

It's the meanest age.

[David Sims]

The worst stage. Yeah. They're smart enough to identify what you don't like about yourself, but not filled with shame enough yet to be quiet.

[Ben Hos]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You know, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I've quoted an anonymous friend of mine who works in a field with children who always says being a teenager should be a legally admissible defense for insanity.

[David Sims]

And corporate for kind of is.

[Griffin Newman]

Their brains are just exploding. Yeah. And it's. It's just. It's like a real, like, you know, you're, you're on a knife's edge figuring out how to be a good person, you know, and, and so little influence in the wrong direction can really set you off.

[Ben Hos]

And also these are lost kids.

[David Sims]

I mean these kids are, are not latchkey kids. But it is kind of a, like just go out and play.

[Ben Hos]

I don't see a single playground ground. I don't see a ball. No, they're, they have, they have garbage and a, and a river.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but you're like they're circumstantial latchkey kids. Right. Like I feel like the term latchkey kid is applied to like parents who do not engage, who do not lock in and pay enough attention with their children. And this is almost like a societal construct that is preventing children from being properly be parented.

[Ben Hos]

I just want to say as a former latchkey kid, it is also when your parents both have to work.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

To make ends meet.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But like the notion of a latchkey.

[Griffin Newman]

Important correction is gone.

[David Sims]

Like it's like that's just not acceptable anymore socially. And it's like what was I just watching? That was set in the early. Oh no, I was just thinking about E.T. right. Which is like the E.T. is the ultimate latchkey kid movie. And but it's about the waning days of that era because then, you know, the late 80s eats and pats like stuff like that. It starts being like, well, you can't let your kid be by themselves.

[Griffin Newman]

It's 10pm do you know where your children.

[David Sims]

Right. And so now it's like, no, your kid needs to be in an after school program and your kid needs to be whatever, you know, like the latchkey kid goes away and it's like the 70s and 80s are the sort of height of the latchkey kid. I feel like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't know. But it's more suburban thing too. Like the little kid biking home from school. Like I didn't do that. Took the, you know, public transit in London. That's what I did. Took the bus from agent.

[Ben Hos]

That's 11.

[Griffin Newman]

I took the bus as well because my parents didn't trust the subway.

[David Sims]

Right. Well, they had the kind of like.

[Griffin Newman]

There was a year or two sort of that, that era specifically post 911 when there was so much concern that that would be a target where my parents would make me take the bus home. And I went to School on 81st street and lived on 8th Street.

[David Sims]

Jesus.

[Griffin Newman]

And it was just the worst, worst bummer to like all my other friends lived close to the school. And they'd be hanging out and I could hang out for exactly 35 minutes before I was in the danger zone of the bus being slow enough that I'm back home past curfew, you know, or for family dinner or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, eventually the garbage gets resolved.

[Ben Hos]

I mean, there's even like a shot with this garbage thing of like one of his sisters. She's sitting on the garbage eating like something.

[Griffin Newman]

It is basically furniture.

[David Sims]

I want to correct myself. So, you know the winter discontent, the famous winter of discontent, which is when Britain, which is still governed by labor government. James Callahan's become the pm. Harold Wilson resigns, James Callahan becomes pm. Like tons of different unions go on strike. The tuc, which is the overarching union council, starts like fighting with the government a lot. And so like all kinds of things start fucking up sort of structurally In Britain, it's 1978, 1979. And that's famously the downfall of labor. And Thatcher comes in for, you know, and the Tories rule for 17 years.

[Griffin Newman]

And everything was perfect for the rest of time.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. But this is set in 75 and Glasgow had a 13 week dustman worker strike.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

So it's set during a very specific labor action in Glasgow in the 70s. And it's very. I love this scene because what happens is the army comes in to clean up the garbage. And I like that Lyn has some people being like, fuck you. This is a union town. This is a union country. And they're berating the army for. For scabbing. And you have the one lady who's like, garbage rubbish. And then look, the. Some guy is like, shut up, you old hag face cow. Or whatever. Like he's lays into her. I just love all that, that, that little sweet color stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

I also love that Lynn, man, we don't talk about. Bruno is like. And I am throwing away my trash. The way you said Lynn, it just put an emphasis on. And I felt like I had to circle back to that. And it's. He has the song about throwing away. And the movie's really about trash in a lot of ways.

[David Sims]

Legal action has been. He now owns Blank Check in my.

[Griffin Newman]

Defense and has sold it. I am but a teenager.

[David Sims]

Okay, Recycled Men.

[Ben Hos]

A little before the army stuff, we should talk about how Kenny, the weird animal kid.

[David Sims]

Yes. Kenny's the kid who instigates all of the drama and almost drags grounds. Yes. Himself and his. He's da. Rescues him. Right.

[Ben Hos]

Ryan's or James. Sorry, James's father rescues him.

[Griffin Newman]

There's Nearly a second incident.

[David Sims]

James's father becomes like the subway hero, you know, like in 30 Rock. Like he, he, he, he gets like a little burst of excitement from, from, yeah, from, from getting the kid out of the canal.

[Ben Hos]

And how does he celebrate, guys? Well, of course he buys a bottle of scotch against. Blotto.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Shouldn't laugh.

[Ben Hos]

And we then have, you know, it's not overly dramatic, it's very grounded, like.

[Griffin Newman]

Everything not self serious, but he, he.

[Ben Hos]

Does, you know, he, he hits his wife.

[David Sims]

It's.

[Ben Hos]

It's terrible. In front of the children.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. It's just, you know, this film is about people who are just kind of stuck in dead ends. Yeah. Right. This, this feeling of there is no other place to go go. And, and this is what it is.

[Ben Hos]

And I guess this is also in the. There's the really lovely dance sequence that you referenced at the beginning of the episode. I think that's kind of in this because then after they get into a fight, they, you see that they figure it out and dance together. The, the wife and the husband.

[David Sims]

You know, there's, there's nice stuff, there's nasty stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Do you ever see Sweet sixteen, another Ken Loach film?

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

Really good film. Also set in Glasgow or around there. Also about like a teenage boy kind of dealing with whatever, you know, life. And that one, I think is present day 2002, same time. Good movie. It was just like living in Britain at the time. There's like the various strands of British movie. There's old ladies have tea in a village type movies. Right. Like nose will travel. Travel, yeah, like those get ported over to America.

[Griffin Newman]

That's $20 million Samuel Goldwyn Films immediately.

[David Sims]

You know, Jane Austen, Charles Dick, you know, period stuff where people are, oh, like, you know that's happening. Or like, oh, the victim.

[Ben Hos]

They always have the thing on their neck that, you know, rough.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I mean, that's a certain era, but yeah, they did do that for a while in Britain. You know, you're like, maybe you should bring in a rough.

[Ben Hos]

I've been thinking about it, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

And we'll see, we'll see 2026 become a rough Rider.

[David Sims]

There's the kind of full Monty influence. Kind of like these guys are doing something silly. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Mad lads.

[David Sims]

Right, right. That also is hoping to travel. That's hoping to get thrown over the pond. And then there's this thing where it's like, yeah, well, life sucks here, man. You live in a council estate and someone's drunk and no one can understand Anything anyone's saying, everyone has lice. The license. Did you guys ever have head lice? I did, yeah, I did. And I, I, it's so, Yeah, I think I was 11 or maybe 10.

[Ben Hos]

I was in primary school.

[David Sims]

It was in Britain. Yeah. And it's still so visceral for me that, that feeling of like being in the bathroom and your mom, like combing your hair with a metal comb.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And like being like, look, you know, and like, you see all this.

[Griffin Newman]

I like that he has the moment of they remove, move the license. He's like, I won't say it. Yeah.

[Ben Hos]

Another visceral thing. And this is something you guys probably didn't deal with, but also ticks. I have a very visceral memory of a.

[David Sims]

That's a real, you know, if you're playing outdoors thing. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

My, my mom had Lyme disease that hit her really hard for a couple of years where she was largely bedridden. So the, the spectra of ticks loom large. And that's why I pursued the role on the TV show so aggressively, so I could kind of. Of take back the word and refocus the trauma into something real. Everything I just said is real. Go on, Ben.

[Ben Hos]

I just wanted to say, but the way that you get a tick off, at least this is how my dad did it, is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[Ben Hos]

Lit a match, blow it out, and then they press it on the tick so it will release.

[David Sims]

Kind of similar to like a leech. You want to. You ever got a leech which only happens.

[Ben Hos]

Well, you guys stand by that, right? That's you Bloodlet to treat cold.

[Griffin Newman]

Common cold.

[David Sims]

Like tutor medicine, where they're like, the problem is your blood. We need all that blood out of your body.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's also why David so aggressively pursued a co starring role on the TV series the Leech, so he could work through David. The legal is applauding and giving me two thumbs up.

[Ben Hos]

The legal documents are piling up.

[David Sims]

We're being sued by leeches. Just, just those guys.

[Griffin Newman]

David? Yes. I have some big questions for you.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Hit me some of the biggest questions. I know it isn't Passover, but it's time for you to answer.

[David Sims]

Are you the youngest? You are the youngest person here, so you are the person to be asking the questions.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So this bit checks out. Question number one. Yep. Do you love guilty pleasure movies that are so bad they're good?

[David Sims]

Sure do.

[Griffin Newman]

Question number two. Like movies where Jason Statham saves the day or an erotic thriller about a killer flight instructure. Or basically any 80s movie set in the near future.

[David Sims]

I love all of those, especially the near future ones. I'm watching a 90s movie. Or is it a 2000s movie set in the near future right now?

[Griffin Newman]

Question number three.

[David Sims]

Okay, let's move on.

[Griffin Newman]

On this night, why do we eat.

[David Sims]

Only bitter herbs to, you know, symbolize the bitter lives of our ancestors?

[Griffin Newman]

Question number four.

[David Sims]

Okay, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Bold, italicized. How did this get made?

[David Sims]

David, why do we recline at the table? Well, Griffin. No. Yes, go ahead.

[Griffin Newman]

And why do we laugh? It's because we're listening to how did this Get Made? The podcast where comedians Paul Scheer, June Diane Rayfield and Jason Manzoukas, the greatest Greek actor in Hollywood. That's right, Unpack the very best of the very worst movies. Look, it's hard to imagine you're listening to this show and aren't already incredibly familiar with how did this get made.

[David Sims]

Right. I mean, they're the OGs. They've been doing it for such a long time, so. Well, obviously, Paul and Jason have been on our show. June refuses to come on. Yes. Just kidding. She's usually in la.

[Griffin Newman]

But here's a little special event.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

When they recorded Buster Scruggs with us.

[David Sims]

Yes. Yes. Paul and Jason were on that episode.

[Griffin Newman]

That same very night, I made an extended guest appearance on the their live Town Hall New York City show with guest Rob Huebel. And we were discussing a little picture blankies might be familiar with called Monkey Bone.

[David Sims]

Henry Selleck's Monkeybone, of course, discussed on this show, now discussed on theirs, with Griffin Newman making apparently a surprise appearance to passionately defend the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I thought they were really speaking out of pocket, and I.

[David Sims]

You came to correct.

[Griffin Newman]

Stormed the stage to correct them to thunderous applause from the audience, who said, finally, thank you. The nonsense has ended. Teller, can we grow up and discuss Monkey Bone with the seriousness it needs?

[David Sims]

You can go back on their feed, of course, to hear their take on a lot of movies. Blank checks covered before, like John Carpenter's Ghost of Mars.

[Griffin Newman]

Nick Kroll was on that episode, gave a very nice shout out.

[David Sims]

Yeah, come on the show. Come on the pod. Nick Coward.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Rollerball.

[David Sims]

Rollerball. John McTiernan's rollerball, to be clear. Not the. The good one.

[Griffin Newman]

Tom Hooper's Cats.

[David Sims]

Tom Hooper's Cats. The great James Bond film, A View to a Kill. Most of M. Night Shyamalan's output.

[Griffin Newman]

Rude.

[David Sims]

And they've got some hilarious guests. Seth Rogen, friend of the show. Nicole Byer, friend of the show. Adam Scott.

[Griffin Newman]

What are you busy doing? Hanging out with Nick Kroll. Not doing our show.

[David Sims]

Where's his ass? Oh, I'm severed. Oh, I don't remember half of my memories.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, we like to hang out and acknowledge that we both listen to this podcast. Maybe we're too afraid to ask you to do it.

[David Sims]

And of course, maybe we don't want to burn the ask until we totally know something you'd be interested in and you might be in New York for.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe we feel like if you didn't respond make us sad and we'd be intimidated to be in the same room with you because your hair is so nice.

[David Sims]

Especially Adam Scott. Jeez, that hair on that guy's head.

[Griffin Newman]

Unbelievable.

[David Sims]

And of course, the two of us have been on. How did this get made to just discuss Jack Snyder's Justice League. I was a parent for about six weeks when that episode aired. I have no idea what I sound like.

[Griffin Newman]

You said Jack Snyder's Justice League. A funny alternate reality.

[David Sims]

Jack Snyder's Justice League. So what are you waiting for? Tune into how did this get made? The podcast that makes sense out of movies that don't.

[Griffin Newman]

Be seconds.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

His Criterion Closet video, which is pretty early on and I feel like the closet being a thing.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

He pulls out the Rat Catcher dvd, had not yet done the Blu Ray release, and says this is the first Criterion that Barry Jenkins ever owned. Which I like that phrasing of. And it is the third person. But he does point to it and he kind of explains why it was like a seismic life changing experience when, I don't know, he got that film from his university library or a teacher handed it to him. But you see a lot of influence from this on moonlight. I think 100%.

[David Sims]

Just even just that start the way moonlight starts where it's in those kind of abandoned houses in that neighborhood in Miami.

[Griffin Newman]

And the Cut.

[David Sims]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Oh, God, yes. It just feels like this movie's influence is quietly larger.

[David Sims]

It's a good ass movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Moonlight is pretty terrific. I feel like. Is it already starting to underrated? Get a little forgotten?

[David Sims]

Yeah, not forgotten. I just think it's underrated. I mean, you know, and Barry made a TV show that unfortunately no one saw. Right. Like because of both. It's a TV show, people struggle with that.

[Griffin Newman]

And followed by a lion kingdom that unfortunately too many people saw.

[Ben Hos]

What is the show?

[David Sims]

The Underground Railroad.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Which is very, very good. It's just like one of those things where it's like it came out right in the pandemic was happening early. Pandemic and, you know, but it does.

[Griffin Newman]

Make it feel like I love Beale Street. I think it's incredible.

[David Sims]

Incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

But then it's been a long time.

[David Sims]

Since Barry's kind of been at, like, the top of the. The combo.

[Griffin Newman]

It feels like we're waiting for the next film in that run. And it's been two other things. No, Moonlight, I think, is one of the best American films ever made. It's so fucking cool that it won best Picture.

[David Sims]

Crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

We've talked about this before, but, like, the weirdness of that ceremony and how it all went down, I do think also tends to overshadow how crazy it is that it won best Picture in a good way, you know, versus, like, Parasite having that same triumphant moment of like, oh, my God, the good thing won. But that just being, like, unimpeded.

[David Sims]

Yeah. There was a bit of drama with my two favorite Oscar wins of all time, moonlight and King Richard. Honestly, Bill Simmons was doing the most rewatchable sports movies of the 21st century with Shawn on the rewatchables, and he brought up King Richard, and they were both fighting. Like, this movie would be a sort of like, nicely remembered three and a half star fun sports movie if he had, like, just like it, you know, not. Not like people be like, wow, one of the great movies people like. People just like, oh, yeah, yeah. Is all right.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolute TNT classic. I remember saying to you, has any movie ever lost cultural value faster?

[David Sims]

Like, within seconds? You mean? Yeah, right? Yes. I mean, probably. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

It's so weird. Like, it's like O.J. simpson murdering people did not tarnish the Naked Gun as much as the fact that it's like him winning that Oscar and then being tied to that moment, which then tied to that movie. Then we're like, we're all just going to agree to pretend that movie didn't exist, much like Creed 3. I know this is a point you made, but like Creed 3 for, like, made like $300 million worldwide. And six weeks later, it was like, so we've all promised to never speak of this again.

[David Sims]

I love that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a very good movie movie, but a movie that also, in another universe, I could imagine myself re watching all the time. And instead it feels like an intentional queue up.

[David Sims]

Maybe I should watch it should pretty much Creed 2 too, which isn't that good, but is a fun sports movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I. I remember Creed 2 being.

[David Sims]

I like the ending a lot.

[Griffin Newman]

Functional.

[David Sims]

I like the ending a lot. I think Dolph just crushes it.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna Say the Stallone Dolph restaurant scene.

[David Sims]

I like all that. I just love Dolph. I'm basically always here for dolphins. Golf.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Remember he was the king of Atlantis.

[David Sims]

Yeah, of course. I believe he was the king of a specific clan.

[Griffin Newman]

He wrote a seahorse. Yeah, he did Beautiful flowing.

[David Sims]

I'm well aware that he did that.

[Griffin Newman]

Proper country.

[David Sims]

We used to be a proper sunken subcontinent. That's Atlantis.

[Griffin Newman]

You see that thing where James Wan was like, I could direct the Avatar sequels. James, if you don't want to. Yeah, yeah. I want James Cameron directing Avatar sequels. That is the first person to throw their hat into the ring where I'm like, not a disaster.

[David Sims]

So the thing with Kenny is he does sort of almost drown himself, but then late in the film he just starts taunting James about how he killed Ryan in this sort of out of nowhere way way.

[Griffin Newman]

Poking, truly poking the bridge.

[David Sims]

And that provokes this sort of ambiguous thing at the end of like he sort of throws himself into the water.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And you're. Then you see him happy and then you see him in the water and you're sort of like, you know, sort of a succession situation. Jeremy Strong floating in the pool there.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely. Which I heard was normal to shoot. He. Well, yes, there, there's ambiguity of whether it is to some degree a fancy sequence. Him placing himself in the memory to process it in the other boy's ill.

[David Sims]

Fated shoes, him killing himself.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's also like very dark. The imagery continues over the credits. But he is alive, he is alert, he is moving, his eyes are open. It is what makes it a little more fantastical, feel a little less literal.

[David Sims]

It cuts to black and it says, James will return in Avengers Doomsday. So I figured he was coming back.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he is. Ratcatcher 1. D.C. owns Ratcatcher 2. I I my ex. My interest excitement level for Doomsday is pretty low. But I will say, I think, what.

[David Sims]

About that one trailer where Captain America tried to sell you Cialis?

[Griffin Newman]

I think giving us what it looks like, Blank will return in Avengers Doomsday. I know that's a thing that's existed since James Bond.

[David Sims]

Right, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

But there's something about the self importance of those trailers versus how unexciting they are an ending.

[David Sims]

It' also just like where they're like, Thor will return. And I'm like, likely place for him to be an Avengers movie.

[Griffin Newman]

You're fucking shitting.

[David Sims]

Yeah. You want me to what? Just like call, like, should I have a town meeting to tell them Thor's in an Avenger movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Greta Garbo will return and Avengers Doom say, you have my interest.

[David Sims]

Right? The Polar Express will Return.

[Griffin Newman]

Long retired, even longer dead. That would get my. Your nose is bleeding.

[David Sims]

Happens sometimes.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you need tissues?

[David Sims]

Well, see, it's just a little.

[Griffin Newman]

This is interesting. I think Blank Will return. Avengers Doomsday is really valuable for the culture. I also think, much like moonlight in this analogy, Blank Will Return. Avengers Doomsday is parasite. And we're forgetting that just a little bit earlier, much like moonlight, we were introduced to the chairs.

[David Sims]

I know.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think the chairs have to come back. Back.

[David Sims]

You want him to do more chairs?

[Griffin Newman]

I think the chairs are one of the most valuable bit formats we have.

[David Sims]

But do you think Will Return has replaced the chairs?

[Griffin Newman]

I think a little bit. And it might just be that we're in a moment of people being so excited by Blank Will Return thing. We'll loop back around to the chairs.

[David Sims]

It's not just that they're like, oh, Patrick Stewart will finally send off Professor X. I'm like, he's fucking died on screen as Professor. Literally, like, already three times. Maybe four.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And. But it's just also that the trailer is like Magneto. Professor X being like, death comes for us all. And I'm like, yeah, you fucking should know. It comes for you all. It comes to you every five minutes. It came for you in a film directed by Brett Ratner. That's how long ago it came for you. Brett Ratner was the choice to direct it.

[Griffin Newman]

But this time, they're going to communicate this to each other while playing chess. That's something you've never seen in an X Men movie before, because he dies.

[David Sims]

In the Last Stand. He gets split, exploded.

[Griffin Newman]

Professor X. And then. Spoilers for the Last Stand. And he returns in someone else's body. His consciousness is transferred over.

[David Sims]

Don't worry about it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then he.

[Griffin Newman]

Then we go to First Class, and then we're dealing with younger prequel. Charles.

[David Sims]

Sure, sure, sure. But then he died. He doesn't die. I checked in Days of Future Past. It's like a bullet or an energy ray is about to hit him when, like, time has stopped. But he's almost dead.

[Griffin Newman]

But in future past, somehow he got his old body back.

[David Sims]

They do not address it.

[Griffin Newman]

He's still alive.

[David Sims]

They do not address it at all.

[Griffin Newman]

We know he beat death the first time by moving to a guy in a comatose state.

[David Sims]

Don't address it. Don't worry about it. Logan. Of course he dies big time. But that's a sort of alternate Future.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then same with Multiverse of Madness, some version of him gets his neck snapped by Wanda Maximoff.

[Griffin Newman]

So you're like, it's truly three.

[David Sims]

I've seen the guy die. Die as Professor. I've seen him die in other stuff too. He's Patrick Stewart. He's done a lot of movies. I watched him die on stage once. It is playing Macbeth.

[Griffin Newman]

It is so funny. That Logan, they were just like, look, the stakes are this time we're actually ending it for good.

[David Sims]

Farewell.

[Griffin Newman]

They're gonna die and they're gonna stay dead because let's face it, these actors are getting old. They don't want to keep playing these characters. And you're like, they brought back both those guys. Guys. Multiple times.

[David Sims]

Patrick Ste. They've killed them. 85, that is old.

[Griffin Newman]

But his buns are the best.

[David Sims]

Mellen is 86 and he's getting on stage. Me, I'll do Gandalf one more time. And I'm like, chill out, Sit down, take a rest.

[Griffin Newman]

Didn't he do a play in the West End where he, like, had like a serious leg injury?

[David Sims]

He. Yeah, he banged himself up in some way. Because he's old, right? I'm not saying he doesn't. I'm not saying, like, retire, bitch. Like, it's fine, do what you want, but it's just, you know, manage your health, sir.

[Griffin Newman]

I just like that. Ben, do you know they're making a film called Lord of the Rings, the Hunt for Gollum.

[David Sims]

They find him in Lord of the Rings. You can watch those.

[Ben Hos]

I have not heard about this.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a movie that takes place in like a 1 inch margin between stories we've already told.

[David Sims]

I think it's nominally between the Hobbits and the Lords of the Rings. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But we understand exactly what Gollum was doing right before this and right after this.

[David Sims]

You. Right, there's like a monologue that tells.

[Griffin Newman]

You you'll never believe who's directing this movie. Why, Andy Serkis, of course, the actor who portrays the role of Gollum, which basically seems like it was the only way that they could get Peter Jackson to sign off and approve on another.

[David Sims]

Middle Earth thing that's sort of like with his. His aesthetic will be kind of borrowed.

[Griffin Newman]

Or whatever and that. He'll give it, like the stamp of approval and like Elijah woods, the Amazon series. He and like, don't fucking associate that shit with me.

[David Sims]

Why wouldn't he want to be associated with the Rings of Power, one of the most electrifying fucking shows ever made.

[Griffin Newman]

But his buddy Andy Serkis, he's like, this is a nice opportunity for him. They start announcing, maybe some of the other actors return. You're like, huh? It has been over 25 years. Then recently, story comes back, Viggo Mortensen will not be returning.

[David Sims]

Right. Even though Aragorn, I believe, is the one hunting for Gollum.

[Griffin Newman]

Largely, Aragorn will be recast because Viggo Mortensen is too old to reprise the role, which he. Correct. And then one week later, they announced Ian McKellen is returning.

[David Sims]

The whole thing with Gandalf is it's like he is old. I get it. And so they. I think they just keep thinking they can get away. And they got away with it. In Hobbit, the thing, he admitted Even.

[Griffin Newman]

That was 15 years ago.

[David Sims]

It was a while ago. It was 10. About 10 years ago, maybe a little more. He admitted recently he was given some interview about Lord of the Rings, because I guess it's. Well, no, it's not even an anniversary. It was the 25th anniversary year. The Christmas, everyone, this year of Fellowship, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yes. It will be 25 in December. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he gave some interview where he was like, you know, the third scene I shot is saying goodbye to Frodo, like, because of the way those movies worked. And I was saying to Peter Jackson, like, what are my emotions? I don't. Like, I haven't done anything with this guy yet. Jackson was like, you know, you feel sad, like you're saying goodbye to an old friend. He's like, okay. He's like, you watch that scene, you should. You're seeing a blank face, man. I had nothing today.

[Griffin Newman]

The Hobbit and Unexpected journey came out December 2012. 12. It's 12, 13, 14.

[David Sims]

The reason they're making the hunt for Gollum is you look up the grosses of those movies that are universally ignored. No one talks about them. They're like, billion, billion.

[Griffin Newman]

There was a perfunctory billion dollars every. I described those movies as ultimate jury duty cinema.

[David Sims]

We got to do.

[Griffin Newman]

We got to do it. We got to do it. But, yes, anyway, there's going to be this ungodly Gollum movie in which some of the actors return. Some of them don't. Some of them are de age. Some of them are recast. Like, you're gonna have, like, waxy de aged Orlando Bloom standing next to some new guy playing Aragorn.

[David Sims]

Because Orlando Bloom, he'll put the ears on for anything. They were like, this movie's called Legolas Takes A. He's like, put. Put the ears On.

[Griffin Newman]

I think he's had them surgically welded on. I think other movies have to shave them down.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He has to take him off to do another episode of Easy. Interestingly, we're talking about Peter Jackson, who, of course, took a job from Lynne Ramsay to make the Lovely Bones. I mean, he didn't steal.

[Griffin Newman]

Are you familiar with the Lovely Bones, Ben?

[David Sims]

I'm not. So the Lovely Bones is a bestselling novel, Ben, written in the early 2000s by Alice Sebold, that was a big hit.

[Griffin Newman]

It is about a young girl who is murdered by a child sexual predator editor.

[David Sims]

Jesus.

[Griffin Newman]

And she, in the afterlife.

[David Sims]

It gets worse.

[Griffin Newman]

Is trying to solve her own murder and communicate with her parents from the beyond. It was this wildly successful, beloved, acclaimed book that people were like, but how the do you adapt this? This is so intense. And it was like her magnum opus, dream project.

[David Sims]

It was. Ramsey was much, I have a take and I can do it.

[Griffin Newman]

And she got the writer approved deep into development. Was pretty close to, like, getting it up and running. And then basically, Peter Jackson snipes it from her. At the moment, where Peter Jackson has so much power that if he's interested, the novelist goes like, sorry, I'm breaking our contract. And Peter Jackson makes it, and it's a disaster.

[David Sims]

It's one of the worst. It's the worst film he ever made.

[Griffin Newman]

But so there's an insult to injury of, you know, my movie was taken from me and then up by doing the exact opposite of what I would have done.

[Ben Hos]

That sucks.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I love Peter Jackson's films. He's done a lot of them. And I am confident in saying that it is. That film is worse than the three Hobbit movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Ye.

[David Sims]

I would watch those three Hobbit movies any day of the week. I'm never fudgeing watching Lovely Bones again. Unless we do Peter Jackson Blank, which we'll do someday. Rat Catcher. Yeah. Really good.

[Griffin Newman]

Really good. It's a great movie. She's made five great films, in my opinion.

[David Sims]

Film premiered at the Cannes Film Festival, and it was a sort of a buzzy hit. Was really praised. I think it was kind of that, like, this is a Ken Loach, Mike Lee kind of thing. It's not. Not some sort of prepackaged British shit that's like, you know, whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a new voice.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. She says, and she's addressing what I'm saying. A lot of film people misconstrued this film as social realism. It's not really that. Try to avoid those cliches. And I think she's right. It's more like you're in a boy's head kind of film.

[Griffin Newman]

I say it many times across this miniseries. I will keep saying it. I think no one is better at depicting the inner light life than Lynn Ramsey.

[David Sims]

Here's a great.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that is like the great project of her work.

[David Sims]

Here's a great quote from Lynn Ramsey. I'm just going to read it verbatim. Quote. I wish I'd never mentioned Bresson. I'm not trying to make an homage or a pastiche like all those Tarantino copycats, those film boys who are just making wank musette.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben is, in my opinion, probably one of the 10 greatest films ever made. If I were handed a sight and sound ballot, you know, if sight and sound start sucking ass and they handed me a ballot ballot, it would be in my 10, no question. And it's a little parallel to this in that is about like a young French girl in a small country town who is just faced with indignity after indignity. It's a tough watch and it's kind of her stoic suffering across this. But they are wildly different movies.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, definitely.

[Griffin Newman]

Wildly.

[David Sims]

Got it. Film came out, made about a million dollars, came out in Britain in 99, came out in America about a year later into like October 2000. And we are going to do the box office game for October 3rd, 13th, 2000. Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, so Rat Catcher's number one. It opens to 15.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, this film opened on two screens and made $10,000. I'd love to know which screens, honestly, what New York indie theater had it or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Angelica, possibly.

[David Sims]

It was a long time ago. Number one at the box office. Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry. Give me the date again.

[David Sims]

October 13, 2000. Number one at the box office is Holder. It was last week's number one is. Well, it's a comedy.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a comedy. It's a hit comedy. In October 2000. 2000.

[David Sims]

So, you know, Bill Clinton's still president. Nine, 11 hasn't happened.

[Griffin Newman]

How long has it been held over?

[David Sims]

This is its second week. It has made $58 million in two weeks. It's on its way to making 166 domestic and 330 worldwide. It's a huge hit that's quite big. It spawned sequels.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

It's a movie star movie and it's getting a sequel this year.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, oh, this is Meet the Parents Stiller in Da. That is really meeting the parents. Funny to consider these movies opening the same. Well, no, I guess this was its second weekend.

[David Sims]

Second week, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

In Law Ben.

[Ben Hos]

Yep.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Not a franchise I respond to extensively.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, calm down. Don't get too excited on Mike number two.

[David Sims]

At the Box, though. You like meet the parents. At the time.

[Griffin Newman]

At the time. At the time I loved it and I rewatched it a couple years ago and I think it is fine. And I think the sequels are bad. But at the time I was like, that's one of the funniest movies ever made. And now there was such hype. It is solid. It is fully solid.

[David Sims]

Number two, the Box can milk anything.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Could you milk me? He says that he's talking about his nipples.

[Griffin Newman]

That is pretty funny.

[David Sims]

It's kind of funny.

[Griffin Newman]

It is pretty funny.

[David Sims]

It's just one of those movies where I'm like, you haven't successfully convinced me me that Ben Stiller would want to fucking talk about nipples at the dinner table. It's just like all this sort of like wild stuff that happens to meet the parents.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting every time.

[David Sims]

I'm just kind of like, he wouldn't do this, but whatever, it doesn't matter.

[Griffin Newman]

I guess it is kind of like a turning point in the mainstreaming of cringe comedy. But the mainstream of cringe comedy is always predicated on someone being a little bit more embarrassing than their tell intelligence would suggest they would be in a public setting.

[David Sims]

It's a year after American, but it has this gross out streak and like two years after me, you know?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And it's like, it's a very mild gross out streak compared to those movies. But like you can see it like where they're like, yeah, we need these comedy set pieces that pop like in some way.

[Griffin Newman]

But also he's not an awkward teenager. He is an adult man.

[David Sims]

He is. I think the funniest thing from what I remember in Meet the Parents is when he does the volleyball, he like jumps out of the pool and smashes the volleyball into a woman's face and like her nose is like bleeding like crazy. Like that is kind of like good Waspy, you know, like he went too far. He like that. That works for me is like big comedy.

[Griffin Newman]

Owen Wilson is great and Meet the Parents and it is very, very fascinating that they just completely change his characters for the sequel.

[David Sims]

Right. They get it in the first one.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, in the first one he is like preppy, annoying, country club golden boy boyfriend. And then he shows up at the end of the second one and now he's a hippie.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And the movie doesn't go like, man, this guy changed. The movie's like. You remember him, right? It's like a mass psychosis thing. And then the third one, he's like a co lead and it's all about how he's like au natural. Right, right. Anyway, Fokker in Law Number Two at.

[David Sims]

The box office is a sports film.

[Griffin Newman]

Remember the Titans?

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

Quite a big hit, boys.

[David Sims]

Yachins. Remember the Titans. A pretty watchable movie. I want to made 115 domestic.

[Griffin Newman]

Denzel Washington was maybe Denzel's first hundred million dollar movie. I remember that kind of being. Trumpet. Well, no, because Pelican Brief can't be true.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but let's see. Let's just see what Denzel's sort of like domestic takes were in the 90s. Because he was a very consistent, successful actor. But I feel like his movies tended to be.

[Griffin Newman]

It was like a 70, 80, 50, 60.

[David Sims]

The Falcon brief made around 100.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And this was the second. Yep. So it's just two.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And of course, Falcon Brief had the, you know, the Julia Roberts bump.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Number three at the box office. Now this is why this was. This is a crazy box office. Again, it's three new movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, wow. Okay, so number three is all opening below the Holdover.

[David Sims]

Yeah. So. Oh, and I should say Meet the parents is 21 mil. Remember the Titans? 13. So those are holdovers. Number three opening to 7.9 million. It's a horror film. Forgotten.

[Griffin Newman]

Forgotten.

[David Sims]

Only memorable for who the director is. It's a first film from a director who I don't think ever worked as a director again, but is a legendary cinematographer.

[Griffin Newman]

He's a legendary cinematographer. Oh, it's the Janusz movie.

[David Sims]

And what's that movie called?

[Griffin Newman]

And that movie is called Fuck. It is Winona Ryder and Ben Chaplin.

[David Sims]

You are correct. It is the third in three movies in three years or two years even of satanic horror movies. It's the last and least after Stigmata and End of days in 99. Which.

[Griffin Newman]

What is this movie called?

[David Sims]

You'll never remember if you don't.

[Griffin Newman]

It doesn't have the word exit in it.

[David Sims]

It doesn't.

[Griffin Newman]

And it doesn't have the word angels in it.

[David Sims]

It doesn't.

[Griffin Newman]

It doesn't.

[David Sims]

It simply doesn't.

[Griffin Newman]

Can you give me one of the words?

[Ben Hos]

Lost?

[David Sims]

The film is called ABC's Lost on Thursday at 9pm no, the film is called Lost Souls.

[Griffin Newman]

There we go.

[David Sims]

We know a writer, Ben Chapter. Chaplin, Philip Baker Hall. You think he plays like a really, like, funny, sort of. Sort of smart Alec Book detective. It's just like Philip Baker Hall. I'm like, oh, does he do a lot of bits? Or let me guess. He's a stern guy who works. He's like a copper politician.

[Griffin Newman]

Miss him?

[David Sims]

Sarah Winter. Nice. Cody as John Hurt. Do you think John Hurt plays like a priest or something? He must play a priest. Father Laro.

[Griffin Newman]

Well.

[David Sims]

Oh, Phil Bickers was all. Also a priest. Phil. Okay, number three. So Lost souls. Yeah. Just, you know, not a flopper.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Number four. Do you think Spielberg. Well, he must have watched it. I think Spielberg is like, sorry, Anish.

[Griffin Newman]

This was like Winona's flop era. And Girl Interrupted coming out this fall. Supposed to be the comeback where everyone said like, but she's got a real big one. And then Girl Interrupted comes out and Angelina Jolie so completely story from it.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That within two years it's like shoplifting and silver incident. Mr. Deeds. She's basically retired. And then she's in the wilderness until stranger things brought her back. Yep.

[David Sims]

And there she was. Number four at the box office is a film that is a comedy film. And it is opening to $5.4 million.

[Griffin Newman]

Not great.

[David Sims]

Which is poor.

[Griffin Newman]

It's quite poor.

[David Sims]

It is a film. Everyone relax.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, here's a little concept then calm.

[David Sims]

You guys know Saturday Night Live, the television show?

[Griffin Newman]

Uh huh.

[David Sims]

What if a character from that, from a series of recurring sketches got his own movie?

[Griffin Newman]

The movie is Superstar.

[David Sims]

That is wrong.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the Ladies man.

[David Sims]

It's the ladies man.

[Griffin Newman]

So Roxbury's 98. Superstar's 99. Ladies man is 2000.

[David Sims]

It's just so funny that SNL was like, every year we guarantee we will be releasing a movie you won't watch in theaters based on an SNL kit.

[Griffin Newman]

I just find it fascinating that there's.

[David Sims]

Like, we're gonna keep trying and failing.

[Griffin Newman]

Wayne's World is so huge. Huge at the beginning of the decade, right? Yeah. Wayne's World 2, they rush out. Huge drop off. They're like, we kind of this up. Then there's the rush of the other people want to get in.

[David Sims]

Cone heads.

[Griffin Newman]

Cone heads. And. And Stuart saves his family. All three colossal bombs. And then everyone's like, I guess the SNL sketch thing doesn't work. Lauren Michaels waits like five years and he's like, less like three one a year. New deal.

[David Sims]

New guys.

[Griffin Newman]

The new guys, you know, that's.

[David Sims]

I feel like that's. His pivot is like, okay, we're not going to do cone heads.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

But we. Why not have.

[Griffin Newman]

Right like it's launching pad for the new ones. The most fascinating thing about those movies to me, it's three films in three successive years and all three of them is are Will Frell as the second lead.

[David Sims]

Right, right. Farrell is the reliable glue guy.

[Griffin Newman]

He did not identify that Frell is the leading man.

[David Sims]

It didn't. And then, like, you're like, it's a.

[Griffin Newman]

Catan movie with feral support. It's a Molly Sham movie with feral support. It is a Tim Meadows movie where feral's the villain. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

And then have you seen the Ladies, Man? I've never. I don't think I've ever seen it in full.

[Griffin Newman]

Reginald Hudlin.

[David Sims]

Reggie Hudlin.

[Griffin Newman]

I actually like that film.

[David Sims]

Yeah. It always seemed to me fine, like a pretty inoffensive thing. But it was obviously a big flop.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I think it's interesting and I think it's got some, like, character to it. Does totally work.

[David Sims]

Work.

[Griffin Newman]

Feral is, you might be surprised to hear, very funny. And it pops in it. And Tim Meadows, one of our favorite people love Tim Meadows. Yeah. Superstar is the one I struggle with. It's. Bruce McCullough directed it.

[David Sims]

Have not seen.

[Griffin Newman]

It's, like, very strange and sad.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like. It's vague.

[David Sims]

Rat catcher vibes, number five at the box office, opening to $5.3 million. It's going to go on to make 22.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Which basically is its budget. And it's going to go on to get two Oscar nominations. So it's sort of like a soft success, but I think they were hoping for a bigger success.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it an American film?

[David Sims]

It's an American political drama. Sort of like a quasi thriller kind of drama.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not the Contender, is it?

[David Sims]

It sure is. Rod Lurie's the Contender, starring Joan Allen and Gary Oldman and Jeff Bridges.

[Griffin Newman]

In my memory, because it connected with Oscar voters, I thought that film opened later in the year and made more money.

[David Sims]

It was not. It was kind of like a mild flop.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[David Sims]

And honestly.

[Griffin Newman]

And in early DreamWorks, it got kind.

[David Sims]

Of like middling reviews and it was just one of. And Gary Oldman was obviously one of the big acting plays from it. He didn't get the nom. He got like a SAG nom.

[Griffin Newman]

But there was this whole.

[David Sims]

And they were like, he didn't get it because he's right wing. Like, you know, he's being canceled for his beliefs.

[Griffin Newman]

No, you do you.

[David Sims]

No, no, no. Remind me.

[Griffin Newman]

It was more intense than that. He, like, wrote an op disowning the Film that he produced and developed and then brought Rod Lurie onto because he thought the film was going to be more even handed.

[David Sims]

Did. Right. And he is like a thunderous anti abortion villain.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

He's like the speaker of the House or whatever he is.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's like, this movie has an axe to grind.

[David Sims]

It's like a witch movie. Like it's about him like dragging this woman over the coals for, you know, a sex scandal and.

[Griffin Newman]

But he basically was like, I want to divorce my work from this movie was getting precursor noms. And then it was a big surprise.

[David Sims]

I take it back. He didn't.

[Griffin Newman]

Did he get a globe nom.

[David Sims]

He got. No, he did get a Sagn. The Sagna.

[Griffin Newman]

I distinctly remember that it was seen as a big surprise that he didn't get that Bridges got in over him. Because Bridges.

[David Sims]

Bridges got every precursor knock he did.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, so they put both of them in at sag. Yeah. Wow.

[David Sims]

And Bridges is, in my opinion the reason to watch that movie. He's utterly incredible in it. Everything else about that movie is stupid rock brain. It is dumb.

[Griffin Newman]

Obama has often cited Barack the.

[David Sims]

Barack. The.

[Griffin Newman]

The Dwayne Barack Obama.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right. Barack. What was the job? Oh, the rock Obama.

[Griffin Newman]

It was Dwayne Barack Obama.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, sure. He says, like that's what being president is like. Like you get to have a seat.

[Griffin Newman]

That's his favorite depiction of a president movies. It's his favorite fictional president. And if you watch that movie, you're like, Obama kind of was doing a Jeff Bridges impression. You could see that movie hitting when Obama's in his mid-20s and that's sort of becoming the archetype in his mind of here's how I'd love to communicate.

[David Sims]

To the public others in the top 10 the re release of the Exorcist.

[Griffin Newman]

Like your opinion, man.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I felt like I had to do some joke.

[David Sims]

I thought that was fine. I thought that was good.

[Griffin Newman]

Rug really tied the room together.

[David Sims]

Obama, remember him?

[Griffin Newman]

Funny.

[David Sims]

Number six at the box office is the. The version you've never seen version of the Exorcist Spiderwalk, which was a big hit with big re release. Number seven, doing great opening new this week is Robert Altman's Dr. T and the Women. Which is kind of like, is that the last before Gosford park or is there one more?

[Griffin Newman]

It has to be the last, right? Cookie's Fortune is before this.

[David Sims]

I think Cookies Fortune is the year before. Yes. Gosford park is the year after.

[Griffin Newman]

It felt like he had just officially run through the end of his goodwill from the Player and Shortcuts.

[David Sims]

I remember that's a movie that I've read Defense of. Right. Like largely it's a bit forgotten.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I remember at the time, as a budding cinephile, like, I sort of knew her. Altman was. I probably hadn't seen much Altman.

[Griffin Newman]

It had an insane cast.

[David Sims]

It has this crazy cast.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I just remember the reviews were universally like, what's the matter with you? I'm here for you. I want to support you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Why are you doing this to me?

[Griffin Newman]

Doing this again? Like, there was a feeling of like, Altman, can you truly not go five years without crashing out?

[David Sims]

Like, it's like Shortcuts, the Player. You were back.

[Griffin Newman]

You were back.

[David Sims]

What have you been up to?

[Griffin Newman]

We'll grant you one pred a porte six.

[David Sims]

What? And you know, now everyone tries to. Basically there's someone to reclaim any Altman movie. You know, like if you hunt around, there's someone who's like, you know, Kansas City is awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite movie of all time is a movie that many people have said is indefensible. Right.

[David Sims]

But that was the judges member critics at the time. And then Gossip park coming out. Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I. I told you you could do that. We all like this one.

[Griffin Newman]

He is my favorite filmmaker of all time. I think it is silly to act like all of his movies are good.

[David Sims]

He's made bad movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And. And your opinion can vary on which ones are bad. But it is impossible to like all of his films.

[David Sims]

He has made movies.

[Griffin Newman]

It's scientifically impossible.

[David Sims]

It's like there's a lot of movies of his, I feel like where you're like. Like this just didn't work. You mixed a bunch of shit together. You put it in the oven and you didn't make brownies. And I like the shit you mix together. And I get why you wanted to do it and I just don't think it's quite.

[Griffin Newman]

And this will make for a really interesting chapter in the book. But God, is this unpleasant to watch.

[David Sims]

It is silly to be like, yeah, no. Five stars every time from Aldman. Of course, that's a little silly.

[Griffin Newman]

Number eight, Dr. T. And the women in this economy. Sorry, I had to make that joke. Go on, please. I apologize.

[David Sims]

Is the Sylvester Stallone remake of Get Carter, which essentially is the end of his career as a screen actor for a while.

[Griffin Newman]

While certainly on a studio level.

[David Sims]

Number nine is Almost Famous, which was, as we've talked about, I think on that episode way back when. Yeah. An underperformer like after Jerry Maguire, even though it was critically beloved and got, you know, awards and shit, was was kind of a weird bomb.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

They released it in what like late August, early September.

[Griffin Newman]

They were being a September release. They were being dumb.

[David Sims]

And number 10 is best in show, which is expanded and has only made 3 million but is going to make close to 20. So it's sort of like a quiet little sleeper hit.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Because Guffman, you know, didn't really break out and Bess and Show did. Yeah.

[David Sims]

So we're going to wrap it up with Rat Catcher but Lynn Ramsey for the next five weeks. Enjoy that, you crazy fuckers. We got more Vern Keller next week with the Mother Rob.

[Griffin Newman]

Emily Yoshida, the way you said it just might have been a little hard to parse. Emily Yoshida coming on to talk about Morvern Kaller, one of her favorite defining movies of her life. People have asked why it had been so long since Yoshida on main feed and the answer is we've been waiting for this. We've had this in the Hopper.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean also Emily lives in la. It's a little harder to just throw her on anything. And yeah, we knew we were gonna do this. We were like you're doing Marvel.

[Griffin Newman]

We knew we were gonna do this. We had two long ass miniseries in 2020, 25. But yes, we've recorded the episode. It's a tremendous amount of fun. It was so good to to get back in the ring with Mama. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. I'll remind you that in addition to our show coming out on Sundays every Thursday through the end of Oscar season, we have Critical Darlings on our feed. Critical Darlings, a little sibling show hosted by the great Richard Lawson, Alison Bullmore and produced by our buddy Ben Frank Fresh.

[Ben Hos]

Also over on our Patreon we have bonus content three episodes a month as well as an ad free feed available.

[Griffin Newman]

We're doing the the Oz commentaries, Lynn Ramsey or one of her favorite films. I wonder if she would love our episode in which we talk about what to get for lunch.

[Ben Hos]

That's patreon.com blank check.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you you all and as always blank check will return in episode on more Vern Cower. You see what I did there?

[David Sims]

Do you want to hear the PGA nomination?

[Griffin Newman]

Please.

[Ben Hos]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hos. Lastly, our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon this show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithee, research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on socialnk. Checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.