The Ballad of Buster Scruggs with Paul Scheer & Jason Mantzoukas

Summary

Blank Check: The Ballad of Buster Scruggs

Guest: Paul Scheer & Jason Mantzoukas
Release Date: November 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Blank Check finds hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims joined by comedian/How Did This Get Made? hosts Paul Scheer and Jason Mantzoukas for a sprawling, freewheeling, and at times uproarious discussion of the Coen Brothers' 2018 Netflix anthology, The Ballad of Buster Scruggs. The panel examines the film as a summative, experimental late-period work, and places it within the ever-shifting filmmaking landscape, as well as in the broader context of the Coens' career. Along the way, they veer into topics of meme culture, industry changes, Greek-American actors, the “Geek Squad” of young Hollywood talent, and advice for organizing one's finances or buying Mongolian cashmere sweaters (courtesy of ad reads and recurring bits).

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Main Themes and Purpose

• Exploring The Ballad of Buster Scruggs as an unconventional Coen Brothers project: its origins, production, structure, and significance as both an anthology and a meditation on death.
• The rise and fall of streaming “blank check” projects—and how the film illuminates a transitional era in Hollywood.
• The podcast itself as “anthology” or “sketch show”: how discussions spiral, overlap, and resolve, echoing the film’s format.
• Spirited, affectionate debate about what makes the Coens unique, with extensive diversions into film nerd culture and Hollywood anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Meme-ification of “First Time” & the Legacy of Scruggs (00:39–04:22)

• The panel opens by discussing the film’s cult quotability—most notably the “First Time?” meme featuring James Franco—which has proliferated without widespread awareness of the film’s source.
• David Sims: “The most famous line from this movie is 'First Time?', which has become a meme in its own right” (01:06).
• Jason Mantzoukas admits he's “not in this world” when it comes to meme culture (01:43), prompting explanations of the Jeremiah Johnson/Robert Redford meme and generational gaps.

2. Streaming, Theatricality, and The Film That Was Nearly a TV Series (04:27–05:10, 84:50–86:45)

• The group laments Buster Scruggs' limited theatrical run and how it was mistakenly reported as a miniseries—highlighting confusion at the time about what TV and movies meant on streaming platforms.
• Griffin Newman: “This was not meant to be a movie. This was meant to be a series” (05:10).
• The Coens are cited as being adamant it was always a film, with Netflix and Annapurna backing a project the major studios would never have greenlit.
• The episode revisits this distinction, highlighting the shifting landscape for passion projects.

3. Greek-American Actor Bit & the “Bone to Pick” (05:28–18:16)

• Jason Mantzoukas humorously calls out the hosts for overlooking him in a prior episode when naming prominent Greek-American actors.
• This launches a recurring, playful grievance (“I've got a bone to pick!”), with the group rattling off notable names (Aniston, Galifianakis, Stamos, etc.) and discussing the weird business of internet lists and celebrity ancestry.
• Jason Mantzoukas: “I am your friend. … I am not only a regular guest on this show... and you're — wow, you are Greek.” (09:00)

4. Hollywood Silos, Social Media, and Siloed Fandoms (04:14–04:22, 18:00–20:29)

• Discussion of how people increasingly encounter cultural moments, memes, or celebrities without deeper background: “Everybody receives the thing that they get…they don't care to explore it any deeper.”
• Segues into crossover between podcast fandoms (“Geek Squad”), young actor cliques, group texts, and Hollywood's shifting hierarchy.

5. Buster Scruggs as Sketch Comedy, Anthology, and Artistic “Appendixes” (21:09–22:03)

• The hosts propose the conceptual frame of Buster Scruggs as “the Coen Brothers' Mad TV” or “their Monty Python and the Meaning of Life”—a film made up of riffs, gifs, and left-field sketches.
• Ben Hosley: “It's like thumbnail sketches…when you see a great art exhibit…like, oh, these are the leftover noodles” (21:31).
• They note the film’s unique, intentionally unfinished/fragmentary character; the analogy to directors’ notebooks or sketchbooks comes up repeatedly.

6. The Film's Structure, Key Segments, and Anthology Logic (62:04–115:00)

• After much preamble (and digression), the panel dives into the anthology’s six stories, their interlocking themes, and the cumulative effect:

  • Segment 1 — "The Ballad of Buster Scruggs": Celebrated for its cartoon logic, Bugs Bunny/Loney Tunes energy, and Tim Blake Nelson’s bravura, physical, and even “musical” performance.
    • David Sims: “The minute you go, ‘Oh, it could have been a second shorter’—you always want to leave people wanting more” (68:06).
  • Segment 2 — "Near Algodones": The “first time” segment, foremost known for generating a viral meme. The comedy of repetition, escalation, and Stephen Root’s “pan shot!” gag are highlighted.
  • Segment 3 — "Meal Ticket": Noted for shifting to a nearly silent tone poem and for Harry Melling’s eerie, affecting performance. Seen as an allegory for showbiz’s exploitative nature (“Melling is movie theaters and the chicken is Netflix” — 130:19).
  • Segment 4 — "All Gold Canyon": Celebrated for Tom Waits’ solitary work and the segment’s methodical pacing—the closest the Coens come to pure nature and optimism in the film.
  • Segment 5 — "The Gal Who Got Rattled": A more classical, tragic, dialog-driven Western, invested emotionally in Zoe Kazan’s character, her attempt to find connection, and the profound, accidental tragedy at its end.
  • Segment 6 — "The Mortal Remains": A stagey, philosophical, near-theological Socratic dialogue, with the panel parsing which characters represent the Coens’ own perspectives, and interpreting the segment as both an artist's coda and a reckoning with mortality.

• The recurring motif across stories: the inevitability of death, how people negotiate with it, and the tension between performance and reality.

7. Production Context and Streaming's “Blank Check” Era (25:11–29:17, 84:50–86:45)

• Paul Scheer and others contextualize the 2010s (Annapurna, Netflix, Amazon) as a brief window where “the movies that couldn't get made anywhere else” could be made, even if there was always some risk of half-measures and loss of creative oversight as the industry calcified again.
• The film’s connection to that “wild west” is thematically appropriate.

8. Bit-Heavy Sidebars: Greek Americans, The Geek Squad, The Brat Pack, and Mark Wahlberg Tangent (10:01–57:13)

• In true “Blank Check” fashion, the panel gets gloriously sidetracked discussing Greek-American actors, the changing nature of star cliques ("Geek Squad" — Zendaya, Chalamet, Pugh, etc.), and 1980s “Brat Pack” politics.
• A mammoth Mark Wahlberg filmography tangent unfolds, exploring why he rises or falls on directors’ ability to harness “true” Marky Mark energy, and what streaming has done to action movies.
• Notable Quote: “Some movies (Netflix/streaming) scratch that itch, but it kind of bounces off me in that streaming way—if you don't get me quick, I'm kind of…” (49:01)

9. Thematic Depth: What Do All These Stories Have In Common? (81:00–84:38)

• The panel and dossier research underscore how “death comes for all” is the film's secret: it is both the literal subject and the through-line unifying the stories.
• Griffin Newman: “Their movies are animated by: how do people process the fact that [death is] the inevitable end goal?”

10. Awards, Rankings, the Coens' Place in History (202:04–213:59)

• The episode closes with a “Coens Top 10” ranking, each host offering a personal canonical list, leading to passionate but non-combative debate about the merits of individual films—e.g. Barton Fink, Miller’s Crossing, No Country, Inside Llewyn Davis.
• Jason Mantzoukas: “These are all unimpeachably just masterpieces by my estimate.” (207:33)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Buster Scruggs’ Meme Legacy:
  “Despite this being a film that is only, what, seven years old, I do feel like the First Time meme is almost like the Jeremiah Johnson meme where 99% of people who use it could not tell you what movie it’s from.”
  — Griffin Newman (01:11)
• On Streaming & Theatrical Runs:
  “This was one week between it playing three theaters and going to Netflix.”
  — Griffin Newman (04:59)
• On Casting:
  “Tim Blake Nelson as Buster Scruggs… is almost the best use of that actor’s skill set as a cartoon character we’ve ever seen.”
  — recurring sentiment
• On Death & Themes:
  “Death comes for us all… But that is right. That is the common theme [the Coens] saw.”
  — David Sims (80:51)
• On Showbiz Satire / “Meal Ticket”:
  “This is them commenting on the level of disdain that show business has for the creator, that the second you don’t have an audience you are garbage to me.”
  — Griffin Newman (130:29)
• On The Geek Squad:
  “There are so many different categories of Damon and he is successful in every one of them… Damon as leading man, Damon as supporting, Damon as dramatic cameo…”
  — Jason Mantzoukas (51:34)
• On The Podcast's Meandering Structure:
  “The show has been happening for 55 minutes. Podcast should be podcast. Video show should be video show. We should not have podcasts that are just—”
  — Jason Mantzoukas (59:45)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:39–04:22 – “First Time” meme, film’s online legacy
• 05:28–18:16 – Greek-American actors, “bone to pick,” and showbiz silos
• 21:09–22:03 – Framing Buster Scruggs as sketch comedy/meaning of life
• 62:04–115:00 – Segment-by-segment discussion (see above for story-by-story breakdown)
• 84:50–86:45 – Film’s production history, Netflix vs. Annapurna, industry context
• 130:29–138:53 – "Meal Ticket" as showbiz and streaming allegory
• 202:04–213:59 – Coen Brothers film rankings

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Tone & Energy

• Warm, boisterous, heavily referential and performative, often breaking into recurring in-jokes, bits, and musical riffs.
• Deeply film-literate: encyclopedic references to both Coen filmography and movie industry ephemera.
• Intellectually engaged, but always undercut by self-deprecation and meta-podcast commentary (“We’ve been talking for an hour and haven’t introduced the show!”).

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Conclusion

Through detailed, digressive conversation, the episode casts The Ballad of Buster Scruggs as a representative work of the Coen Brothers—summative, shaggy, existential, playful, and deeply stitched into the themes of Hollywood’s own evolution. Both podcast and film embrace multiplicity and sketches—thumbnail portraits, fragments, connections, and endings. In loving, chaotic, and precise detail, the panel makes a powerful case for the film’s importance, the continuing power of passionate criticism, and the enduring weirdness of the American moviemaking dream.

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Additional Resources

• For more on the Coen Brothers’ career, see previous episodes in the Blank Check miniseries.
• For the recurring “Greek-American actors” bit, consult episodes of both Blank Check and How Did This Get Made?
• The full dossier and links to spotlighted critical essays are available on Blank Check’s newsletter and show notes.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect.

[Ben Hosley]

All you need to know is that.

[Griffin Newman]

The name of the shadow is Blackjack. There's just gotta be a place up ahead where men ain't low down and poker's played fair. And if there weren't, what were all the podcasts about? I'll see you there. And we can podcast together and shake our heads over all the meanness. And they used to be.

[David Sims]

I mean, that's nice, I thought.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Very sweet.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it kind of speaks to this not being like the most, like, you know, zingy quotable movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the language in this movie is incredible, but you look at the quotes page and everything is a unbroken paragraph of dense old west.

[Ben Hosley]

It felt like I was walking into a Walt Disney World ride. Like, you know, it has that kind of like, well, hello, 100%, Paul.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, that might be part of why I find this movie so pleasant to watch.

[Jason Manzoukas]

What a delight.

[Griffin Newman]

It's so comforting to watch this movie.

[David Sims]

And yet the most famous line from this movie is first time, which is a perfect, pithy to the point. Crushes has become a meme in its own right, which is funny.

[Griffin Newman]

And despite this being a film that is only, what, seven years old. Yeah, I do feel like the first time meme is almost like the Jeremiah Johnson meme where 99% of people who use it. Right. Could not tell you what movie it's.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm going to be honest, I did not know it was a meme.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, yeah, it's a good meme.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I don't know the Jeremiah Johnson meme.

[David Sims]

Okay, so that's the big one.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, boy.

[David Sims]

You know what? I'm.

[Griffin Newman]

Pin it on the board. Half an hour of discussion.

[Ben Hosley]

No, but Jason is also not on social media.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's simply a fact of that. I'm not in this world.

[David Sims]

You've never been on any of the things that would present to you as a sort of a graphical image format.

[Griffin Newman]

History has really proven you right on your. On your abstinence.

[David Sims]

Oh, boy. So the Jeremiah Johnson meme is just the gif of this from Jeremiah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Sure, of course. And might be a legend.

[David Sims]

Right. And I think the thing about it, Paul, you don't need me to show you.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

You don't.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, I know very well. And actually have it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But what is it about? What is it?

[David Sims]

You use it to convey a kind of like, grudging admiral. Admirable.

[Ben Hosley]

Sort of like.

[Griffin Newman]

It's almost like a. That'll do Pig.

[David Sims]

But then I don't know.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I don't know what that is. You're. You're.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that James Cromwell and babe, that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Weird. I thought it was another meme.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, it hasn't been memified, but it feels like Jeremiah Johnson represents that kind of feeling.

[David Sims]

But the thing that happens, I will say every so often on Twitter is you'll see someone post, I didn't realize this was Robert Redford.

[Ben Hosley]

That's what I was gonna say. People don't know. Yes.

[David Sims]

Or they're just like, oh, it's just some guy because he looks so, like, full faced and stuff.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And I so rarely see him. Except that movie with that giant beard.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Well, that movie kind of disappeared a little bit. I feel like.

[Ben Hosley]

I also think it's the. The sign of the times. Right. Because I remember this is the thing I always go back to. During one of the Grammy performances, Kanye brought out Paul McCartney. So this gives you how far ago it was. And one of the things on Twitter that was going on very bigly, as our president might say, was that people were like, I love that Kanye's giving new artists a chance to come out to the public. Like, who is? Like, they didn't.

[Griffin Newman]

He's using the platform.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. He's using, like, you look. He found this older guy. He's a real talent.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a Liverpool.

[Ben Hosley]

And so I feel like that, like, that, like, going one step deeper is amazing. I find that with Jason and I on. How did this get made? People like, you guys run a show together. Like, yeah, well, like, you didn't do. You didn't even do, like a brief Google search.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, somebody said to me the other day, and genuinely, I was gonna announce when I was in something, and they're like, oh, that's amazing. You're starting acting.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I was like, all right.

[Ben Hosley]

And I said, at first I thought.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It was a bit.

[Ben Hosley]

And I was like, it wasn't. And I was like, great. And I feel like that is kind of the way that a lot of people are approaching life. Just blinders on. It's like, I like this thing. I'm not gonna look to the left or the right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And siloed. Everybody. Everybody receives the thing that they get. And whether it's a meme or a podcast or whatever, they don't care to explore it any deeper or further.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no. And right. First Time is a self contained statement.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And is First Time also that this is the first Coen Brothers that was not in theaters?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

True.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It got a very, very Limited run. I was even looking it up. Right.

[David Sims]

Even before Netflix was making the glass onion type exactly like, oh, some of the big ships.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, that was the biggest they ever had. I still feel like even now when they give it the perfunctory run at the six theaters they own and a couple others and whatever, it usually plays for like three continuous weeks. And this was one week between it playing three theaters and going to Netflix.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm very desperate to get into the dossier on this one because it had. So it went through so many permutations of what this would be.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This was not meant to be a movie. This was meant to be a series. This was not meant. So that's what I want to get settled those questions. I love this. Before we do, Ben, if you don't mind. Hit it.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, my God. What?

[David Sims]

He came prepared with something.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I need it louder, Ben.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Crank it up.

[Ben Hosley]

Thank you.

[Jason Manzoukas]

On the day True Grit dropped the blankies all gathered around and gazed in wide wonder at all the Greek American actors Griffin Dave found the two friends spoke up Couldn't think of any off the dome they forgot all about me that I was Greek to the bone Greek to the bone. I got a bone I got a.

[Ben Hosley]

Bone.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Bone A bone to pick. I got a bone to pick. That's it, Ben, Take it out. How dare you.

[Griffin Newman]

Very fair.

[David Sims]

People were really mad at us about this.

[Griffin Newman]

We had this coming.

[David Sims]

Now, I'm trying to remember the exact. So we were sort of saying, like.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Can I just interrupt you for a second, David?

[David Sims]

It was. It was Shammy and Yorgos. We were talking about Yorgos.

[Griffin Newman]

It was. And we were asking him, do. How quick. How quick do you run to, by the way? Number one.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Excellent.

[David Sims]

That was very well executed.

[Griffin Newman]

So I do want to call out that Ben texted me about an hour before record and said, weird request. Do you have sunglasses?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

I thought they were for him.

[Jason Manzoukas]

For God, I love it.

[Griffin Newman]

But you were just wearing my toy Masters of the Universe sunglasses, by the way. Goes on.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And I want to be very clear. This is a shout out to Zach Cherry bit. Is a Zach Cherry bit from Doughboy.

[David Sims]

Yes. He did it. He did it perfectly on top, boys. You did it perfectly here.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Thank you so much. I got his blessing to do it. Do not worry. This is not stolen Valley.

[Ben Hosley]

And by the way, I was wondering why you were reaching out to Zach Cherry. Because Jason asked me yesterday. Do you have his information?

[Jason Manzoukas]

The Uber driver who drove me here for the 20 minutes I was in the car that I was rehearsing Singing along to the track.

[Griffin Newman]

You were doing it out loud?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Out loud. Must have thought I was insane.

[Griffin Newman]

You warn him or did you just start?

[Jason Manzoukas]

0 I talked to him. Not at all. Because I don't talk to drivers.

[Ben Hosley]

That's the way he does it now. I'm a man of the train. That's why we started about 30 minutes late.

[Griffin Newman]

And you always talk to the conductor.

[Ben Hosley]

I always get in there and just. I know what's going on. I. My mom once told me. My mom works in hospitals and worked with a lot of psychiatric care patients at a certain point. And when she was working in New York City, she said, hey, I just want to tell you one thing. Never ride mass transit or get on a bus.

[David Sims]

Oh, interesting.

[Ben Hosley]

She said, all those people are suicidal and they. They're going to drugs. And I was like, well, that really is limited majority of transportation. I got to get around. But just to say never go on mass transit.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's never funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Any form.

[Ben Hosley]

Any form.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But I am inclined to agree vis a vis buses.

[Ben Hosley]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree with that. I agree with that.

[David Sims]

Well, the thing about buses is you're not going to. In New York. You're not going to get anywhere too fast. No bus.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But we're getting off track.

[Griffin Newman]

We settle this issue.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay?

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

And we haven't introduced the show.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I don't care. I've got a grievance that I am lodging.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got a bone.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I've got a bone to pick, you guys. With Stavi, who I could not be a bigger fan of, Love A Guy are talking about Yorgos. You're talking about True Grit, you're talking about Damon. And then you segue effortlessly into the Chris Nolan Odyssey that's coming up starring.

[David Sims]

Right? Because he's saying there's not one Greek in it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

There's no Greeks in it.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You guys are like, well, who are the Greek American actors who could be in it? And you all came up at, like, blank. I am not only a. A regular guest on this show. I am your friend. And you're. Wow, you are Greek.

[Griffin Newman]

I am American subscriber. You give us money every month.

[Jason Manzoukas]

We are on a text chain together. This was a. I felt personally agree.

[David Sims]

It was tough. I'll say. I'll say what I did.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm going to admit what I did.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I googled Greek American actors at the time because I was also trying to do the like, the true. Like, who am I not thinking?

[Griffin Newman]

And I was doing it off the dome.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Who should I believe it was? I believe you guys Came up with Elias Codius, who is Canadian.

[Griffin Newman]

Did we even say Galifianakis?

[Jason Manzoukas]

I can't remember if we said Mia Vardalos. She said Elias Cody is. You said Jen Aniston, who is half green.

[David Sims]

Jennifer Aniston is when you Google.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

If we say Rita Wilson.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I don't remember.

[David Sims]

She's up there.

[Jason Manzoukas]

She's in there though, for sure.

[David Sims]

This is an interesting list.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You didn't say Chris Diamantopoulos.

[Ben Hosley]

I was gonna say.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, that's a big mess.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Very name now.

[David Sims]

Right, right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Let's be clear. Is Chris Nolan gonna use any of us in this movie? Absolutely.

[Ben Hosley]

I want to see the Odyssey poster with just those names.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Just like me. Justavi. Just Christy.

[Griffin Newman]

It'd be hard to get the text to everyone fitting on.

[Ben Hosley]

I will tell you this.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Just a text poster. I like the Fiona. Fiona Apple album.

[Ben Hosley]

I. I heard a great story about the Odyssey which I think I can share because it's.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I think I can share this story if it's at.

[David Sims]

Homer Simpson wrote it. I think your wires got crossed a little bit.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, wait.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, Peter Griffin wrote it.

[David Sims]

Wait.

[Ben Hosley]

That way. It was a little flashback like this. So I was shooting on the Universal lot and I don't know if you've seen this, but on TikTok there was a lot of footage of the big ship from the Odyssey in the water because they were shooting it in one of the tanks.

[David Sims]

All practical. All practical.

[Ben Hosley]

And if you got high enough on a hill or on the top of a parking structure at Universal, you could look down at the boat in the water. Now when they were shooting, it was very heavily covered because they had a lot of lighting equipment and stuff like that. Apparently production was furious that these images of a boat from hundreds and hundreds of feet away.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Were released. And this is that post trailer.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[Ben Hosley]

Trailer had been released. We've seen the boat in the trailer.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. That.

[Ben Hosley]

It was suggested that if they want to continue filming that Universal would have to build a 75 foot tall wall to block out.

[David Sims]

There you go.

[Ben Hosley]

Any lookers on from this process?

[David Sims]

Bring in Mr. Nolan's wall.

[Ben Hosley]

And then when they were told that that was impossible to do though, they. Because it wasn't just like. It was a large. It was. It wasn't even like a. Put up a screen. It was like, oh, built. Please build a wall.

[Griffin Newman]

It was build that wall, Mr. Trump. Please build that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Please build that wall to protect this ship.

[Ben Hosley]

It was met with great disdain and anger that they could not immediately build a 75 foot tall.

[Griffin Newman]

If I Wall. If I had been in that room, I have the answer for them. Take that giant minion.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Move it over where he wants. Universal got this giant sphere you can see from the highway.

[David Sims]

Seats out.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I can just read to you the Greek. Greek American, please. First, I googled Greek actors and. Sure.

[Jason Manzoukas]

From Greece, of course.

[David Sims]

Good. So, Zach, Jennifer, people we would have thought of Tina Fey.

[Ben Hosley]

Great.

[David Sims]

Comes up right away.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Obviously someone that you guys have struggled to name in the past. Melina, can of Caridis.

[David Sims]

Melina, can of carriages.

[Griffin Newman]

I struggle to literally name seven rows.

[David Sims]

Down here, but she's in there. John Stamos.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, classic Greek yogurt.

[Ben Hosley]

Now I'd like to see him in the.

[David Sims]

This man. This one I didn't know.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Hank Azaria didn't know that either.

[David Sims]

Is he like, maybe.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Maybe half.

[David Sims]

Half. Let's see. His grandparents on both sides are Sephardic Jews from Thessalonke. Okay.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I love it. My dad's from Thessaloniki.

[Griffin Newman]

Two quarters, makes a half.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, yeah. Olympia Dukakis, who is one of the greats.

[Griffin Newman]

That's pretty embarrassing of that. There's maybe not an actor with a Greeker name than Olympia Dukaki, But, I.

[David Sims]

Mean, like, Nolan's not gonna. He could do a lot, but he's not gonna revive her.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like you're skirting the issue.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. Dimitri Martin is in the movie.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Yeah, he is. He does a PowerPoint.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He plays guitar.

[Griffin Newman]

He's so good. And he made his own costumes.

[David Sims]

Minu Suvari, I guess I never thought about it, but there you go.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I didn't know that.

[David Sims]

Now, this one surprises me. Betty White.

[Griffin Newman]

Is she Greek?

[Jason Manzoukas]

I have no idea.

[Griffin Newman]

Must be a stage name then, right?

[David Sims]

Well, I think White is her married name.

[Ben Hosley]

That.

[David Sims]

Okay, White is her. No, right. Is her name. Her name is Betty White, and her mother's name was Christine Kachikas, and indeed was Greek.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I love it.

[David Sims]

Okay. All right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I thought that she's also dead, so cannot appear unless there's some scenes with ghosts.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, but by the way, Nolan has figured out how to bring ghosts back.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes, but they.

[Ben Hosley]

But they can't be photographed on imax.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, that was the hard thing.

[Griffin Newman]

That's because it's too loud. It's scary.

[David Sims]

I was about to say. Right. It's not that the. The camera can catch. Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

They're just like on the episode, you guys even mentioned someone playing Dionysus, which I do play. Did that also didn't even remind you of.

[David Sims]

I haven't watched the Percy Jackson show because I've Never read the book.

[Ben Hosley]

That show full of Greeks.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's the. I'm the only Greek on that one, too.

[David Sims]

I was about to say today, you.

[Griffin Newman]

Want to plate of feta, curse the entire Greek representation.

[David Sims]

You know, I apologize.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

Apology. I want to also say I'm sorry. I feel like David's been skirting this issue a little bit and redirecting it back to, oh, who are other Greeks who should be.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Do you see what he did? He went straight to a document as if the document was to blame.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, he did. He did say that he Googled and got some information.

[David Sims]

I was trying to see it is.

[Ben Hosley]

I think.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No, no, I'm not even on there.

[David Sims]

I might take this up a little bit. Why are you not on here? Why is Chris angel on here?

[Ben Hosley]

But he would be great.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Surprising.

[Griffin Newman]

He would be good.

[David Sims]

Okay, then fine. Then why is Spyro T. Agnew on here? Yes. A famous Greek American. Pretty good actor, I guess he lied to the American people.

[Ben Hosley]

I believe that Spiro Tagnew was in Barney Miller one episode.

[David Sims]

He probably was.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I am shocked.

[David Sims]

Michael Ch.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah. Chickless is great. I'm surprised that Zach isn't, like, so high. I mean, Zach is. Oh, is he third? Oh, okay.

[David Sims]

So you just.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Who's the first person he says?

[David Sims]

Jennifer.

[Griffin Newman]

Jennifer. Have you heard of him?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do, like, very Greek.

[David Sims]

How many times have you played a Greek guy?

[Jason Manzoukas]

No. Oh, no. I've played everything else and Greek. Only a handful of times.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like the Shalhoub career.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, very much so.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Very much.

[David Sims]

They just drew a big circle on.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That map, and you're like, you're here. Yes. Anything that the Mediterranean touches, you can play is. Is what casting directors. Dec. Decided, and then they decided it later.

[David Sims]

You can't do that. We are just gonna forget that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Forget that. Forget that.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I. I think I. I am sorry. I apologize.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think especially because I think the ultimate insult of it, if I can take ownership for this is not only were we listing prominent Greek American actors, and we forgot to mention our.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Friend, even friend of his show.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, friend of the show. Friend of our personhood. But also that in compiling the list that we left you off of, we say to Stavi, like, yeah, this list is pretty shitty. You could very quickly be the greatest Greek actor in Hollywood, by the way.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He could. I'm not taking anything away from Stavi, who is fantastic.

[Ben Hosley]

Here's what I want to say. I like Stavi a lot. I've been on his Show. He's a great guy. I think this is a Stavi issue because he has. He doesn't know that you're Greek.

[Griffin Newman]

Stavi should know who's on his.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You know, here's what I'll say. I'm not laying this at Stavi's feet only because I've never even met the man.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And, and David and Griffin and I text frequently.

[Griffin Newman]

You're not leaving it at his sandaled to.

[David Sims]

We need to bridge this. I guess it's in la New York.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It is. I think it is in la New York.

[Griffin Newman]

You're here in New York. You're here in.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Maybe we will make this here.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't think you could handle recording at Stois, is it?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, why?

[Ben Hosley]

It's in his apartment and I think that you would have a problem with it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, maybe.

[Griffin Newman]

I, I, he also lives in an egg factory.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Oh, no.

[Ben Hosley]

I've been there and I love to.

[Griffin Newman]

Have a great chicken coop and egg factory.

[Ben Hosley]

Of all the things I have.

[David Sims]

So Paul knows Jason very well and like works with him. So Paul seems to have insight here.

[Ben Hosley]

I could say to you that I don't think that I trust. Yeah, I would not say you would feel comfortable going.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I trust Paul to know exactly what, what I'm capable of withstanding.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

A lovely experience in every way, but it's, it's gonna gonna be right up your alley. The show will be great.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You guys will also, I think, and I know I'm not at all interested in making you feel bad.

[Griffin Newman]

I. We gotta, we gotta wear this like, flavor flavor.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Here's the other thing. As I walk away from this, I'm also just so everybody knows, I'm not at all interested in this episode going long in this being some sort of record setter. I'm here to talk about the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's that train on the track.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'll tell you that. I know. Oh, sorry. I know that you guys don't necessarily listen to our podcast, but you overlapped recently with our podcast because we, in a recent episode started establishing a group of young actors who are all in a cohort together.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That we are calling.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is how it began that we are calling the Geek Squad.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

Or the G Squad. But the G Squad is technically a. A band, A K pop band.

[David Sims]

It's also Ryan Gosling, Giovanni Rabisi. I'm trying to think of who was in Gangster Squad.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, my God. Mackie Brolin.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I think Sean Penn's the villain.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

Ricky Cohen.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

We went down with performance with Jake Johnson. We went down a rabbit hole who's in the Geek Squad and who's not. And I feel like you guys did a similar. You guys were creating a similar list. So this is something I believe we could really team up.

[Ben Hosley]

And what we. What we have kind of established which.

[Griffin Newman]

Episode was this in, by the way.

[Ben Hosley]

This was in the. It was grizzly to the revenge.

[Griffin Newman]

Got it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Cool.

[Ben Hosley]

And it is primarily a conversation of who is in the Geek Squad.

[Jason Manzoukas]

We're talking Jacob Elordi, we're talking Florence Pugh, we're talking Shalam.

[Ben Hosley]

There's been a lot of conversation because it was sort of like who belongs, who doesn't. Like, we feel like. Like Zendaya is out of the Geek. Like she's kind of too cool. She's on the. But the Geek Squad is not representing nerds.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

No, I understand what you're saying.

[Jason Manzoukas]

They're the people that help.

[David Sims]

But like, Glenn Powell's not in the.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He's not Geek Squad.

[Ben Hosley]

No way.

[Griffin Newman]

But see, I think what you're getting at, even though he's just sort of.

[David Sims]

A peer of these guys.

[Griffin Newman]

You see Bratz, that's the Andrew McCarthy.

[David Sims]

I saw the movie about the dolls with the big head.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes, definitely with a Z.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But I feel like they all talk about that. That they got labeled in this way. These people who kept working together and would socialize together, even if not all 15 are going out to the same bar every night. And that some of them said, I don't want to be lumped in with this. And I feel like. Exactly. I feel like Zendaya is kind of the Tom Cruise. I would say she's in there end at the. Except she has like absolved herself from Is Geek Squad.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, we were talking.

[Griffin Newman]

He would be. If he wasn't with her.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, that's what I think too. Like, there's a. There's a few things of. What we're trying to figure out is. And this is the.

[David Sims]

We will talk about the fact that.

[Griffin Newman]

We'Re in tight episode.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The fact that. And by the way, our fans and Paul have a hard out.

[Ben Hosley]

What is.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No, you know.

[David Sims]

I have a heart out at some point.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay. I pushed it. I said to Molly, you still have a family, huh?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Are you still doing that? You're still doing that the minute it started.

[David Sims]

Can you believe it?

[Griffin Newman]

It's craz. The degree to which he's doing it.

[Ben Hosley]

Jason, Molly said to me, she said, remember, you have a heart out. And I said, you got it. And then that's my Assistant. And then. And as maybe two minutes into the podcast, I texted her, said, drop that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I canceled. I canceled that out. I canceled my 4 o'.

[Griffin Newman]

Clock.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I was like, me to get rid of.

[David Sims]

We could have gotten you out of here.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think so. I don't think so.

[David Sims]

Maybe I've gotten you somewhere else at 4.

[Griffin Newman]

We haven't even introduced the podcast yet. We got to talk about.

[Ben Hosley]

Can I tell you the one thing? I had a dream about the podcast, and this is.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Ben Hosley]

This is what I said.

[David Sims]

Seek therapy.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. I said, this is the Coen Brothers Mad tv.

[David Sims]

This thing. Absolutely.

[Ben Hosley]

This movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Great.

[David Sims]

That's great.

[Ben Hosley]

And that was in my dream, and I'm bringing it to save this in a nice way.

[David Sims]

It also feels like them digging through the fridge a little bit. And I don't mean that in a bad way, but just being like, huh, we have these leftover noodles.

[Griffin Newman]

Had this exact same thought on this rewatch. I went. We all know. We all discuss this as the Coen Brothers anthology film. Is this more the Coen Brothers sketch comedy? Is there Monty Python and the Meaning of Life? It is serious sketches around, like, you.

[David Sims]

Just read the Lord of the Rings. And then there's the appendixes. The appendixes are interesting, right? Sort of them being like. And here's like. Yeah, here's left.

[Ben Hosley]

It's like. It's like thumbnail sketches, which I think it's like when you see a great art exhibit, you might see like, oh, this is what they did, you know, before they drew the Mona Lisa. Or you see elements of things. And I feel like it's just Leonardo da Vinci's dick.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

It's a lot of dick based with.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like, just a clever smile.

[David Sims]

For me, this dick's following me around the room.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The thing for me is like, like, the. The how it.

[Griffin Newman]

He holds. Always looking at you, regardless of where you are.

[David Sims]

All right, that urethra is following me now.

[Ben Hosley]

That should be a blank check poster. A draw drawing.

[David Sims]

Da Vinci's dick.

[Ben Hosley]

Da Vinci's dick.

[David Sims]

Da Vinci's dick.

[Ben Hosley]

That's actually with multiple arms.

[David Sims]

It's a brown novel. And. And that's important. And Tom Hanks is circling and. And what were you gonna say?

[Ben Hosley]

He's gonna come back to reprise that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

G. And he's me. It's a crossover with the National Treasure movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, I love it.

[David Sims]

That would be funny if they both are, like, in parallel trying to get.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Something at odds with each other.

[David Sims]

Like, I like a 21 Jump street men in Black.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I want those things. I Wanted that my friend Rodney Rothman was going to write that movie. Like, I'm desperate for somebody to do one of those.

[Griffin Newman]

Been talking it up again recently. He's saying I would do it tomorrow. The script is great. We still talk about it.

[Ben Hosley]

Here's what I think was interesting. And without having seen Predator Badlands there, the premise is, you know, the Predator.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Is in the movie Badlands.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. And it's.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's Badland.

[Ben Hosley]

Very dramatic.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm waiting for Predator Days of Heaven. That's when I think they're really gonna.

[Ben Hosley]

Predator Thin Redline.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

The. But there's a. It's a. There's a way.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Same separate characters just played by a predator.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, I heard there's a Weyland Yutani robot.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

In Predator Badlands. And I love that. That kind of subtle crossover is really nice too, because it builds a universe without having to jam them in there. And I feel like. Just like letting universes exist are fun. And I feel like. I think that. That we miss out on that. But now that everything's owned by three places, it feels like you would have a lot more.

[David Sims]

No, please.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Four places.

[David Sims]

Come on.

[Griffin Newman]

Hold on. And breaking news.

[David Sims]

Oh, boy.

[Griffin Newman]

It went from four to two.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This movie, this watch. I absolutely like all of these movies that I've been re. Watching with you guys. Some. You know, these are for me, like the filmmakers of my gen. Of my lifetime, you know, I mean, the people for whom I started when I was a teenager watching them, discovering them and watching those first bunch of movies. Miller's Crossing was the poster that hung in my college dorm. Like, truly, the number of times I said to people take your flunky and dangle is like, shocking. Like, I just was obsessed with the Coen brothers. And it helped that they nev. With a few exceptions, they never really faltered. And they constantly were exploring and examining stuff that I also was interested in. Detective novels, noir. Are shaggy detectives. Like cruelty man's vices to interrogate the human condition.

[Ben Hosley]

Even the ones where they miss. It was from a pure reason.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, this is my argument here is I do believe that Netflix gave them a lot of money because it's early time in Netflix. And they were like, we want to make a big.

[David Sims]

They want the cred.

[Ben Hosley]

We want a credit. And like, I feel like let's also.

[Griffin Newman]

Call out this as Annapurna.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of forgotten. Yes. Very Important power player Megan 2010 Cinema.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Megan Ellison's company that was going to. That was going to save cinema by bankrolling all of the young Auteurs who the studios were like, no more. We're going to give you money in a major way.

[Griffin Newman]

But right. There used to be a better Ellison child who with her father's money, said still exists.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

She kind of exists in the shadows, though. Like, she's largely pulled back.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Do they not have Bond anymore? No, they don't. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

No, they don't have anything.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

But I felt like this is a movie and I was looking at it and trying to think about it not. I don't want to say it in a. In a. In a way that is mean, but it feels like it has a slight element of a cash grab where it's like, we're going to get a lot of money. Let's go do this thing that we kind of want to do, but we don't really have, but we can kind of. Because it's not in the theater, we can kind of go and make this thing that is a little less formed than our other things. And I actually think that that was. Is great because you get these like seven great vignettes. And it's like, it's the only. That's in a weird way how I feel like streaming movies should be. It's like, oh, this is stuff that you can't.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm inclined.

[David Sims]

It should either be like bargain basement action garbage, right, like DTV kind of stuff. Or right, like, kind of like this is the squarest peg and it will not fit. Like, because this is an uncommercial movie. Like, you know, who's gonna rush the.

[Griffin Newman]

Shorts or kind of a similar exercise. And in that they did an even weirder relationship with them, right?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, they broke them up. You can watch them rather as individual pieces, which I would love it if this was as well. And in that way that you're calling it a sketch movie, which I agree.

[Griffin Newman]

But every segment has a punchline. That's what really jumped out for me.

[Jason Manzoukas]

These are funny. These are so funny in the way that the Cohen's. That Cohen tone is so on display here. And the reality is like, I love the wraparounds because it is like the Cohen's, I feel like, are always hearkening back to those things of their youth. And this is just Western frontier stories, a book of short stories that are pulpy and fun that might appear in like Field and Stream magazine color prints. Yes, exactly.

[Ben Hosley]

And I feel like it. It comes out at a time, if I'm correct me if I'm wrong. But in that time where even like Quentin Tarantino is playing around with like doing this like with Hateful Eight or.

[David Sims]

Like, you know, episode after this.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. And hateful8 does another thing when it goes to Netflix. I was thinking about that which, where when that goes to Netflix, he chapterizes it and makes it longer. And makes it longer but more like a TV show. And it's like interesting. I love that breaking of form. And that's like the benefit of streaming to me today.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The trailer for his now connected kill bill.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh yes, yes.

[David Sims]

Playing the Vista whole body affair.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Thrilled proper wide 35 and 70 release.

[Ben Hosley]

People pay money and it was at the Vista. It was packed all the time. But it had frontier bunch subtitles because it only.

[David Sims]

Only right time they ever did. It was a can, right?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, that's cool.

[Griffin Newman]

But yes. No, it's the kind of experimentation I would like to see and, and 2019, 2018, a moment where you're like, oh my God, there are things like Annapurna coming into the world, going to filmmakers, saying, what's the thing that no one else will let you make? Giving them the money? And when no one else would release it, Netflix goes, why not? Like, it felt like these, these kind of maverick forces were actually opening up and letting weirder stuff stuff get made. And as often is the case, it was like that's what they used to legitimize themselves before they could just commercialize it out of.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Remember when Amazon's entire first batch of shows were all indie filmmakers and like.

[David Sims]

Interesting people like Steve Conrad, Whit Stillman. Right. Like all basically like it was all those guys.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And then they were like, jk, we made Lord of the Rings for a billion dollars and that's all we do.

[David Sims]

Well, I was so good.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean.

[Griffin Newman]

Can'T stop watching. I'm watching over here.

[David Sims]

People stop me on the street and shake me to talk about the plot points of the Lord of the Rings. Dick.

[Griffin Newman]

Where is Dick from.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Griffith?

[Jason Manzoukas]

David Ben.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Ben Bone Sound Inc. Worldwide in partnership with Plank Check Podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

Heard with both of those companies. I've heard of both of those companies.

[David Sims]

Prove whatever's about to be mentioned.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Are proud to present Ben Hosley's Slow Xmas 5.

[David Sims]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

Somehow Slow Xmas has returned.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

They slow now for listeners out there.

[David Sims]

Living in a friggin hole.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh boy.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Av. No shade.

[David Sims]

Sx.

[Griffin Newman]

Mm.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Slow Xmas is an annual compilation album of alternative and offbeat Christmas music.

[Griffin Newman]

But it gotta be slow now.

[David Sims]

This is not ssx. No, the snowboarding.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Sometimes it's tricky.

[David Sims]

This is just sx. It could be tricky.

[Griffin Newman]

It could Be tricky. Ben, you did in this copy. You provided us written copy. Written copy, use SX as shorthand.

[David Sims]

So you're trying to sort of coin an acronym here.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the first time you've done that.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I'm testing it out.

[Griffin Newman]

Can we call this sxv?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

And then. Now, am I wrong? Is this the fifth time you've done this or is it the sixth? Because wasn't there like an Episode Zero or something?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It started with Slow Xmas Zero, Right? It's a natural way to start.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a Godzilla Minecraft.

[David Sims]

Whenever I'm counting up, I'm like, zero kind of situation.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. The second year's installment was Slow Xmas Volume one.

[David Sims]

Griff, can I read the next line of the copy, please? This year, slow Xmas 5 is being served cold. Brr. Bundle up and sip away them holiday season and blues with wintry ethereal tunes.

[Griffin Newman]

David, Ben, our listeners might be going, yeah, I know it's that time of the year. Slow Xmas. What am I going to do? Go online and download it? Is that my only release option?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

No, because now in its sixth year, it is available on vinyl for the very first time.

[Griffin Newman]

For the very first time. The slowest vinyl imaginable.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

That right? Fiscal Media baby. Available exclusively through our friends over at Mutant.

[Griffin Newman]

Right now, the lovely folks at Mutant have released such soundtracks as Sinners and Now slow Xmas 5.

[David Sims]

It was pressed apparently on 140gm. What does that mean?

[Griffin Newman]

It's the grams. The grams. That's the weight.

[David Sims]

And iced out into a translucent ice blue variant.

[Griffin Newman]

I like that.

[David Sims]

500 copies offered him 4,500. So you can play regular slower, extra slow at 33 and a third.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Isn't that fun?

[Griffin Newman]

That's really fun. That's all. That's really, really clever. Ben, can you tell us about the lineup this year?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It's featuring holiday standards and originals from the Meridian Brothers, Shannon Lay, Zach Cooper of Grammy award winning King Garbage, eric slick of Dr. Dog, Dave Hartley, friend of the show of the war on drugs with his solo project Nightlands. Among others.

[Griffin Newman]

Among others. And for the analog haul, the analog hogs. Hogs. The majority of the album artwork is practical with an original sculpture by Matthew Rosenquist.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

To get your mittens on this record, go to madebymutant.com Also available is a special edition T shirt featuring slow Xmas 5 cover artwork. Plus we have a 5 pack of hologram greeting cards featuring album artwork across the last five years. So you can send along some holiday cheer to friends and family using cards featuring Past Slow Christmas album artwork. Isn't that fun? You can explain to them what it is in the card. That's a good icebreaker. Ice cold.

[David Sims]

Brrr.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And for any worldwide blankies interested, international shipping is available, but for the vinyl record only. Once again, all three products are available right [e-mail] all right, anyway, thanks, guys.

[David Sims]

You know what, Griffin? Why don't I introduce the podcast?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, do we have to?

[David Sims]

We should.

[Griffin Newman]

There's something more important we have to do first. First we have to revisit the conversation about the Geek Squad. Because for me.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, yeah, David's so upset.

[Griffin Newman]

I think they're calling up David's, like.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I thought we would.

[David Sims]

I thought we.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I thought I'd see the John Hughes.

[Griffin Newman]

Films were kind of just, you know, podcast. They started the conversation.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You can't blame our guess. To your point, what we were talking about was that a lot of people in that documentary and don't want to be associated with the Brat Pack are so butthurt that they are lumped into this thing. And some people are like, yeah, who cares? Well, they call this the Brat Pack.

[Ben Hosley]

The Brat Pack, to me, was the funniest documentary because all of our careers. Yes. And like, but. But not Andrew McCarthy. And that's who's making the documentary.

[Griffin Newman]

Push back against it the most. Which is what's interesting, right?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Cuz no one thought they were fairly obsessed with it.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, well, because he believes that his career was hurt by it. And I feel like he got put.

[David Sims]

In a bucket and he presents it right.

[Ben Hosley]

And. And, but you could argue, oh, put.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Me in a bucket. Put me in a bucket of green. How about put me in a Greek American actor bucket that my friends might recognize.

[Ben Hosley]

You'll never think this can be full of yogurt. That's very heavy.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You know it like so much Oikos in here.

[Ben Hosley]

But yeah, I feel like. Like, I feel like that's like, he also made bad movies. Like, and that's the other thing too. It's not like, oh, Andrew McCarthy made these three great films. And here's the biggest joke of it all. St. Elmo's Fire, not a good movie.

[David Sims]

St. Elmo's Fire is ass, that movie. People are nostalgic for it. And obviously I wasn't there. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Certain age were like, this speaks to us. But it wasn't good. It doesn't last. It wasn't like, like, these are great actors. It was like, this is a shitty movie. But it captured a moment where we actually wanted to see all these people Together.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, there was a combination of. I think the word brat felt pejorative to them. And they didn't like the idea that they felt like it was taking them less seriously as actors.

[Ben Hosley]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Unsurprisingly, you see Demi Moore, who's just like, look, this is an industry that looks for handles and hooks. Like, I. If. If they want to use this to, like, identify me, then I'm run with it. And I'm. I'm working harder to prove myself beyond that rather than fighting it off. But these labels seemed, like, so, like, comfortable.

[Ben Hosley]

It was the best time of my life. And his response to it was comically hilarious. Like, and. And I love that Judd Nelson was like, I'm not going to even dignify this with being up the phone. I'm like, yeah, won't even be in.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry, what were you saying, David?

[David Sims]

Well, these names are usually somewhat like. Frat Pack was also like. It's a bit of a weird label. Geek Squad isn't exactly, like, the nicest thing to call people squad.

[Ben Hosley]

The reason why we call Geek Squad because it's.

[David Sims]

Does.

[Ben Hosley]

It may be confusing. We're using Geek Squad as the.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The person that bites the head off of the chicken at the weirdos.

[Griffin Newman]

You're saying.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No, no, no, it wasn't.

[Ben Hosley]

We were calling it more like the Best Buy Geek Squad because they're people who help older people use their technology. So these are.

[Griffin Newman]

I like young actors who are really good older people.

[Ben Hosley]

See this like, I'm rubbing my hands together. I get it.

[David Sims]

I see the vision.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You know what the. You know what the Geek Squad does? The Geek Squad plays Bob Dylan. So that the boomers go to the movies.

[David Sims]

Exactly. And it like, I like that young kid. He's.

[Griffin Newman]

He's good.

[David Sims]

He's.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You know who I like?

[David Sims]

Elvis.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The kid who played that guy was good. He looks like Elvis. Classic Austin Butler.

[David Sims]

Geek Squad.

[Jason Manzoukas]

We've talked about you.

[Ben Hosley]

Do I have. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I just say this before you start reading the list? Since I have talked about this, I feel like never on mic. But for me, the core of what you're talking about. I've never had a name for it is three concentric circles that makes up the majority.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I agree.

[Griffin Newman]

It is the cast of Dune.

[David Sims]

Mm.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

The younger cast of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And Euphoria.

[Ben Hosley]

Those are the 300% and you are. That is perfectly said. And I believe that that's where we.

[Jason Manzoukas]

There might be a few outliers, but for the most part, you got it.

[David Sims]

Chalamet being the Number one, where any Hollywood producer would be, like, zero things about this guy. Communicate a list movie star to me. How does he never fail?

[Ben Hosley]

Like this. This is like. I'll give you a couple of the names.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Timothy Chalamet.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Obviously, right there. Austin Butler.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right. The Bear. Oh, no, we took the Bear out. We took Jeremy Allen because of Shameless.

[Ben Hosley]

But we put in a Lord. A Lordy. Yeah, we. Margaret Qualley, big time. Jenna Ortega, which we felt like was. You know, and then. And there was. And then there was these debates. Like, we already said no to Glenn Powell. He's not a part of that crew. Sydney Sweeney, not a part of that crew. Even though she's in.

[David Sims]

Really.

[Ben Hosley]

She's. She's. Because it's like, you need to be.

[David Sims]

Kind of doing her.

[Ben Hosley]

Her own thing with that new movie, the boxing movie. It may change it, but I feel like she's on the. She's over here.

[Griffin Newman]

She's also in two out of the three. She is of the circles.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And I. I also quit. I'm like, is she like Cusack?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Where you're like, oh, interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

He was in the movies with them and was doing his own thing that was very lateral to them. But you don't really put him.

[Jason Manzoukas]

She's also best friends with the Pivens.

[Griffin Newman]

She's best friends with the Pivens.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Chicago.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Geek Squad only posts great politics.

[David Sims]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Geek Squad is like. And you're right, it is all of these people and all of the kind of infrastructure around them that is making all of these nonsense moves.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think it's important that they work together a lot, that they feel like a class that has risen together, that they're unified by certain filmmakers and certain subjects and whatever. Because that's where these things happen of, like, there's an energy being transmitted at times the collaboration, at times the competitiveness.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, it was interesting because we talked about Nicholas Holt and we're like, well, what does he fall into this? And we're not really.

[Griffin Newman]

Really.

[Ben Hosley]

Because he's been around, I think, like.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Nick Holt, the Fannings, they've just had huge careers they're not part of.

[Griffin Newman]

And they started young, and it also. They were sort of like Geek Squad before there was a Geek Squad. They were sort of running independently because there wasn't.

[Jason Manzoukas]

To harken back to True Grit. I don't think Hailee Steinfeld is Geek Squad. There's a great Avengers. You guys didn't meant. Yeah, that's true. You guys didn't mention this in the episode. But I. I have a couple of Cohen stuff that I. From different episodes that I just want to mention more Bones. This is not a bone. This is just one of the things that. A couple things that I've loved in interviews that, like I said, I'm obsessed with the cones in True Grit. There is a great Fresh Air interview with them. And they talked about how on True Grit there were more rules protecting them putting the horses in the cold river than there were protecting them from putting Haley Steinfeld, she could spend more time in the water than the horse.

[David Sims]

Horses.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And that. That was like a crazy thing. The other thing that I love about them, and this is from years ago, there was a podcast called Creative Screenwriting where the guy would ask qu. The same questions to screenwriters. And one of which is, what do you do when you can. When you come up against writer's block? And the Cohen's answer was, we go to our respective offices and we take a nap. And when we wake up, usually one of us has a solution and they Jack it.

[David Sims]

They're not jack it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, they jack it down a jacket.

[Griffin Newman]

Y. Jack it down.

[David Sims]

Got a jacket it down. No, that's great.

[Ben Hosley]

You got to alleviate your erection to then come back and have a more.

[Griffin Newman]

Leave yourself of your power so you can focus on your art.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yep. Get the poison out.

[Ben Hosley]

Get the poison now, I guess. Oh, yeah. Go ahead.

[David Sims]

Introduce our podcast. Quick.

[Griffin Newman]

Grudgingly.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It can happen. It can happen.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just bl.

[Ben Hosley]

I think the last time it was an hour in. We're only 30 seconds.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You know, the first time. The first time it never happened.

[Griffin Newman]

Happen.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The first time. The first time the show was never introduced.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a good podcast. That's actually Elite podcast.

[Ben Hosley]

Was that.

[David Sims]

Was that used cars?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes. Cuz used cars. Big trouble.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's it.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No, well.

[David Sims]

Oh.

[Jason Manzoukas]

As the duo, each of us have done individual.

[David Sims]

You guys haven't been on since Trouble.

[Griffin Newman]

There's. What's the other one? I'm forgetting. There's another one more.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Last action here, Hero.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. Oh, that's right.

[David Sims]

Oh, that's right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm so sorry.

[David Sims]

No, you're on Zoom.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, well, we've always been on Zoom.

[David Sims]

We've been. Which is so. It's so great to have you guys.

[Griffin Newman]

You came in the stud once before for.

[Jason Manzoukas]

For a watch along of a James Tomorrow Never Dies.

[David Sims]

And of course, we talked to Paul a million years ago for Running Scared.

[Griffin Newman]

That's true.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That was the most ever not in person episode.

[Ben Hosley]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

We carved out an exception only.

[Ben Hosley]

I appreciate that. And that was. And I. I'm happy to talk about that movie because I still believe that that is a great template for action comedy. And it's so hard to find that balance still to this day.

[Griffin Newman]

It has gotten worse in the years since we talked about that movie, especially as it become the domain of streaming services.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, I mean.

[Ben Hosley]

And I'm going to tell you I. I have not watched yet so I can speak to it. I'm too scared to watch a Shane. Okay.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Play Dirty. Yeah, I've seen it and I'll talk about it. I talked to. Yeah, I talked to Ed Brubaker. A bunch of the great.

[Griffin Newman]

Ed Br.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The great friend of the show.

[David Sims]

Yes, friend of the show.

[Griffin Newman]

We love him.

[David Sims]

This is the Shane Black Play Dirty movie.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's the portion of the Parker. One of the Parker books.

[Griffin Newman]

A couple in the podcast. I got him distracted. Go on.

[David Sims]

I just introduced a showing of Kiss Kiss Bang Bang at the Nighthawk this week.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The greatest.

[David Sims]

I was thinking about one of the great.

[Jason Manzoukas]

True. And so. And have you seen Play Dirty?

[David Sims]

No. And that's what I was. I was like, I cannot believe he has a movie. I could watch it on my TV anytime.

[Ben Hosley]

But that was my. I was nervous.

[David Sims]

I haven't done it yet.

[Ben Hosley]

I was nervous, nervous. I would.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I want to recommend the Parker books. I especially want to recommend the Darwin Cook graphic novel adaptations of the Parker book. Unreal and beautiful. And Ed Brubaker helps put them out.

[David Sims]

Rest in peace.

[Jason Manzoukas]

RIP A legend. Darwin Cook. His Catwoman is amazing. Incredible.

[David Sims]

Incredible.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Incredible here. Yeah. Like a lot of great next level anyway.

[Ben Hosley]

Which I believe New Frontiers is the basis of what James Gunn is going is.

[David Sims]

And he's smart.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, I think so.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I really enjoyed Play Dirty and the. The stuff that didn't work for me felt like some VFX stuff was kind of like sure mushy and not great. And I ended up being. There were certain moments that I was like, oh, this didn't need to be so vfx. This could have been a smaller moment but.

[David Sims]

But nonetheless nice guys. Which I adore. Yeah. Has a couple of those things where.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm like, so this is.

[David Sims]

This action sequence. Didn't mean need to be quite this big.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like yes, that's this.

[Ben Hosley]

This has a little bit of studio notes going make it bigger. And then you can see in the product that he didn't really care to make it bigger. And he's like, yeah, does that work?

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's still a small time Parker heist kind of grind and And Wahlberg. It was supposed to be Downey Jr.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it was Downey Jr. Theatrical. And.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And I don't mind that it's not Downey Jr. Because Parker is such a good Parker and Wahlberg. Parker is a brutal, absolute ruthless, humorless, charmless person. And Downey Jr. Is not at all that. And. And Wahlberg does a good job of that. But I have seen and heard criticism where people are like, oh, he's just so unlikable. He's just blah, blah, blah. And that is Parker.

[David Sims]

But I do feel like that's. Do you have any relationship with Wahlberg at this point? I mean, you made the movie from.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The movie Infinite, where I played the artisan.

[David Sims]

You did play the artisan.

[Ben Hosley]

And by the way, again, now I'm gonna have to come in with a song. And. And I was in Daddy's Home.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, yeah. And that's right.

[Griffin Newman]

We're in Daddy's Home.

[David Sims]

But I mean, is he a guy who's like, Jason. Nope.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like, come see Parker. That wasn't on me.

[Griffin Newman]

That was on.

[David Sims]

Doesn't seem like his vibe, really.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He is not at all a person who is like, hey, Jason. And I think if you were to show him my picture and be like, who is this?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He would be like, I have no idea.

[David Sims]

Would he be like, I might have worked. You know what? And you're always changing the way you dress.

[Ben Hosley]

If you really shown a picture of you, I bet you what he would do is pray on it and figure out the problem.

[David Sims]

He has this nervy vibe on screen now that he didn't. I mean, he's always been a little that. But, like, I do feel like with him on screen lately, I'm like, are you having fun? Like, you always seem so bummed out.

[Ben Hosley]

This is what I will say about him.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

And I. It's. With very few actors, they are either great, terrible, or like, you don't know.

[David Sims]

What you're gonna famine. I completely agree.

[Ben Hosley]

And it's like. And sometimes you're just like, I don't even understand, like. And I think it's a lot about the director. And I think if the director is hard on him or put. Or really has a point of view, you get a great performance. If it's like, Max Payne. And it's like, I'm just gonna show up and do my thing, because Sam Jackson can do that. Sam Jackson.

[David Sims]

Max Payne is such a good call. He's like, the whole movie, you can feel him being like, what the fuck is this? Why am I in this?

[Ben Hosley]

No, Reason for it. And it's like. And so I feel like that kind of. Of like when he decides he's going to direct himself, I think that's when you get the bad Mark Wahlberg.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Whereas, like Sam Jackson, I think, from stories I've heard, will decide to direct himself and always delivers.

[Griffin Newman]

I heard this as well.

[David Sims]

I have heard him say out loud at a bar, that motherfucker tried to read my lines to me.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, my God.

[David Sims]

About a director.

[Griffin Newman]

The Wahlberg thing that is interesting to me is like, we have covered many films in which an auteur tries to cast him against time type to disastrous results. Right. Like Truth About Charlie, the Happening, Planet of the Apes to a degree. There was another one I was just thinking about. But like Lovely Bones is obviously one of these that we haven't covered yet. Right. And then there's like, smart directors.

[David Sims]

We will have to cover it.

[Griffin Newman]

We will cover it someday. That's an F. Smart directors casting him intelligently. Right, Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Understanding Departed is like a great.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

But the whole magic of Departed is he doesn't want that role.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally.

[David Sims]

That's why he's so good at it.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You can feel him looking at Leo, the tension where you are similar with Boogie Nights.

[Griffin Newman]

He's never stopped apologizing to Jesus for being in Boogie Nights.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And it's the fact that both he and Bert Reynolds do. Do not want to have been in that movie is nuts.

[David Sims]

Like, a peak for both of them.

[Griffin Newman]

What's fascinating about him is you're like, of course he's bad when directors misunderstand how to use him. And of course, he's great when directors are really smart about a slightly unconventional way to use him and to harness his energy. The middle is the part that's confounding where you're like, hey, Mark Wahlberg play a cop in a movie that costs $40 million. He should be OK at this. Right?

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Well. And he just bottoms out.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, Spencer. Well, I think the reason why I've had a hard time turning on this film is because of Spencer for Hire, which I was like, oh, what a mess.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Because it seems to me, like, what. What an opportunity like that could have.

[Ben Hosley]

Been a great fun franchise.

[David Sims]

Those.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Those books, those stories, Hard Boiled Pete Berg. Like, I was like, I'm gonna love the Boston.

[David Sims]

But that beginning of me being like, I think Pete Berg might just not be. I used to love the stuff he was doing. Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

When he was a Michael Bay acolyte.

[Ben Hosley]

You know, Pete Berg seems like he likes to fly an lapd flown helicopters and show off guns on Instagram. Like, you know, not even in a. Just in a way, like, this is cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, it's like when the announcement is Robert Downey Jr. Is re teaming with Shane Black to do an adaptation of, like, a legendary noir character for theaters. You're like, that's what I want everyone in that sentence to be doing. And then when it becomes comes Shane Black is doing a streaming crime movie with Mark Wahlberg, it immediately feels like, yeah, I know what that is. Yeah, I've seen that a ton of times. Even if it's the better version of that. Totally. I have also only heard good things from everyone who's seen it with the, like, qualifier of there is some stuff in it that feels like streaming.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Is it. Is it? No Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, right? No. But is it. Is it unsuccessful?

[David Sims]

Not at all.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I had a Black.

[Ben Hosley]

I see the movie that I feel like I like. Like that I'm now gonna be embarrassed to admit it to you all, but. Because I feel like no one liked it, but it kind of scratched that same itch. Was. Was it called the Instigators? It was like a Boston.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that was something that bounced. It was.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's a line. That's a co. Is that a Covid movie? Did that movie get bounced? It feels like it does.

[David Sims]

It's Casey Affleck, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Like a 2024 Apple TV movie.

[David Sims]

And I remember being hyped for it. It's like, trashy, fun. And it kind of bounced off me in that streaming way of like, if you don't get me quick, I'm kind of.

[Ben Hosley]

I think I watch it on a plane. I was like, oh, I'm okay with.

[David Sims]

The Maybe good on a plane.

[Ben Hosley]

But I think what the difference is.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's a porch movie.

[Ben Hosley]

It is a porch movie.

[David Sims]

It's trans.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, added to my list because we have two guests in the studio today, I'm not introducing them. Paul is at Ben's usual desk.

[Ben Hosley]

I know. I feel uncomfortable.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben has assembled an ad hoc setup, including a monster mic being held together with duct tape.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Oh, you had to mention because it has porch vibes.

[Griffin Newman]

In a good way.

[Ben Hosley]

It is. It is a. That is a porch vibe thing. And you should have had your can taped to it as well. Like, I feel like. Like a can cozy. Like, I feel like there should be. Like, I made this. I didn't have to buy a cup holder for $2 on Amazon.

[Griffin Newman]

It has, like, an ad hoc producing engineer set up on the AV cart with a half Built Lego Batman movie Joker mansion underneath it. And a duct tape mic. It's perfect. The microphone, it looks good.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And I use the one that Sims broke.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, well.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And so I had to throw something.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Together during one of his Sims temper tantrums.

[Griffin Newman]

During.

[David Sims]

I was. I was trashing the place Juilliard and Sims ripped my.

[Ben Hosley]

You're like prime time Letterman after a bad show.

[Griffin Newman]

Look at the pencils in the ceiling.

[Ben Hosley]

The. But I was gonna say so many.

[Jason Manzoukas]

People in the audience are like, who's Letterman?

[Ben Hosley]

I was going to say the guy.

[Griffin Newman]

From the nodding beard meme.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I don't even know what that is. I'm learning so much about memes today.

[Ben Hosley]

The. But Mark Wahlberg is an actor that in a movie that may bounce off you feels like he's giving it his all. Like, and I feel like that's the difference.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, I don't ever feel like Mark Wahlberg, even when he's on Entourage.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna need you to watch the Infinite Wait.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, no. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I will. I. I meant I'm saying the wrong person. Matt Damon. Sorry, sorry. Matt Damon.

[David Sims]

Sorry.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, that's. That's it. Agree. Sorry. Matt Damon is the guy who I feel like is the anti Wahlberg because he is. It's always interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like Damon has always given everything.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is what you guys were saying is there are so many different categories of Damon and he is successful in every one of them. Damon as leading man, Damon as supporting character. Damon star as dramatic cameo in a side character in. In a movie like Interstellar. Those are all successful.

[David Sims]

The one thing I'm very interested, because you look at Wahlberg's career of late, and it's this mix of stuff like Infinite, sort of straight to streaming. I know that was not intended for.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Streaming Covid, but Casualty, it would have been. It still would feel that way if it wasn't.

[Griffin Newman]

So there's some streaming movie doing in.

[David Sims]

Theaters, somewhat anonymous action stuff that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Let me be clear. It is an Antoine Fuqua movie that cost well over $100 million dollars and was a blast to make.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Jason Manzoukas]

But that was so much fun.

[Ben Hosley]

That's the panic fight. That movie got caught up in the panic fire of everything's streaming. And thank God for Tom Cruise is the only one who was able to control. I mean, right. That was. He was the only movie that did not go to streaming. That was done.

[Griffin Newman]

And remember that announcement. It was like parallel with the. The Warner Brothers project. Popcorn. Every movie is going to HBO Max day and date. Paramount announced that every theatrical release of theirs would be on Paramount plus within two weeks. And they had forced Cruz's hand and made the announcement, or they were trying to force his hand. They publicly announced. And that will also apply to Top Gun Maverick. And he was like, it will not. Like they had tried to get him to throw it on Paramount plus in 2020. In 2021. He holds it to 22, and they're like, sure, it comes up Memorial Day, it will be on Paramount plus plus by June. And he was like, no, it will.

[David Sims]

And. And, you know.

[Ben Hosley]

And I will say that he continues to hold it tight because even Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning, he held that from VOD for way longer than any other film.

[Griffin Newman]

I spent five months waiting on my.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I got that.

[Ben Hosley]

And I was. I came the other day. I was like, oh, well. And you know what? I'll tell you this much. I was brought in. I was brought into David's, had a great time. I had to host. I didn't have to. I was hosting a screening of the Final Reckoning.

[Griffin Newman]

You had the privilege.

[Ben Hosley]

I had the privilege. And I was shown footage of the movie, and I had to get my reaction to it, but they showed a documentary about that biplane scene.

[David Sims]

That. That shit is unimpeachably unbelievable. It's unbelievable.

[Griffin Newman]

And sequences in that movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Never have seen it since. It's not on the dvd. It's not on the Steelbook.

[Griffin Newman]

Fuck.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, the thing they showed you. They showed me.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't know why. Because it's similar. What's on the DVD is similar.

[Griffin Newman]

It.

[Ben Hosley]

But the footage is different.

[David Sims]

Huh.

[Ben Hosley]

And I was like, why is this not out there? Because it was one of. Truly the most thrilling things I've ever seen.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

It actually makes it look way more dangerous than the documentary does.

[Jason Manzoukas]

David, will you please get back to what's on the computer?

[David Sims]

I wanted to finish my point about.

[Jason Manzoukas]

About Wahlberg.

[David Sims]

Wahlberg, yes. Before we introduce this podcast. So half streaming garbage, half this sort of inspirational stuff. He'll do like Family Plan, Arthur the King, the one where he's.

[Griffin Newman]

With more dumb family comedy. It's not inspiration.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But there's family inspiration, but closer to murder mystery.

[Ben Hosley]

But I mean, where does the. The movie with Topher Grace in the airplane fall with.

[David Sims]

That's.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that's inspirational because Mel Gibson is his lord and savior.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, God.

[David Sims]

But that was at least. I mean, that movie doesn't work, but I guess that's sort of like. I guess I want you doing this kind of stuff, like playing a villain but he has a movie coming up called By All Means, in I think 2020, directed by Elegance Bratton, who made that movie the Inspection, a very solid debut, I thought, where he plays Gregory Scarpa, who is like a famous mafioso who went informant in the. In like the 70s or 60s or whatever with like, Mark Wahlberg. Yaya Abdul Mateen.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes. Sounds, you know, I'm in David's tr.

[David Sims]

This just kind of sounds like. So dump them. Yeah, this is something where I'm like.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay, do you think this is the other thing about him and what I've been thinking about with him, I know he's trying to launch that Vegas or that Nevada Warner Brothers or whatever that is.

[David Sims]

Do you think he just had to avoid anything interesting while he was doing that?

[Ben Hosley]

I think he's like, let's out as many of, like, let's boom, boom, boom.

[David Sims]

Just kind of keep the boring Wahlberg.

[Griffin Newman]

Pipeline, like raising money, working with more investment companies, and because they building more capital.

[Ben Hosley]

Feel like some of them feel like real direct to dvd. But then you can go, about a year ago, he did 100 million dollar move. Like, it's like, yeah, I feel. But I feel like that studio has failed.

[Griffin Newman]

It seems like it. But it definitely felt like he was trying to start an entire side industry. Like he was trying to Tyler Perry it.

[Ben Hosley]

And they. And they open. But it was also under the Warner Brothers banner, or it was like it was a big studio banner and they had moved. Moved things out there. And it actually, I thought in many respects made sense. Like, all right, well, they have a tax credit. You have land. You can go shoot this thing. And I. I guess maybe at the end of the day, if he's the face of it, maybe it doesn't take off as much. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Interesting, because we have to remember it's not that long ago that he was considered one of the most successful producers in town. Boardwalk.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That whole HBO run was like, oh, Mark Wahlberg and that company are producing on a huge level. Maybe he is someone to go in.

[David Sims]

On it with, introduce our podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

I really kind of waited for the hour.

[David Sims]

Mark, we have to stop talking about Mark Wahlberg. He's not in this movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Wait, wait, he's not in this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

He's definitely not this. Can we check the cast?

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's not in it.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not in the Girl who Got Rattled.

[David Sims]

Introduce the podcast.

[Ben Hosley]

By the way, should we talk about that now?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah, we're both doing the same thing. He also Has a clothing brand called this Important.

[Ben Hosley]

But by the.

[Griffin Newman]

The way.

[Ben Hosley]

So. So when I was at. I went to the Celtic. I went to the Celtics game the other night and they. He has a special branding deal with the Bruins and the Celtics. Only municipal clothes there. And I was like. And I looked at the quality of it. I said, that's a good call.

[David Sims]

Introduce the podcast. I do want to talk about this movie a little bit.

[Griffin Newman]

I want to talk about this movie a lot.

[David Sims]

Well, then you're wasting time. I'm. I'm. Now I'm getting serious.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You're wasting time. You are.

[David Sims]

Cuz I'm going to have to leave and you're wasting.

[Griffin Newman]

At what time?

[Ben Hosley]

Ben, can you read? What?

[David Sims]

Griff, you know, when I have to leave. You know how my life works.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's.

[Ben Hosley]

By the way, the show.

[David Sims]

I am now officially really annoyed. I'm going to be. Oh, boy, here we go.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Let's go. Not with you guys.

[David Sims]

With him. With me.

[Jason Manzoukas]

With you.

[Griffin Newman]

Not with them.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I said introduce the podcast.

[David Sims]

You're like, oh, I was really hoping to get to an hour. Why? Let's go.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's.

[Ben Hosley]

Now you're. Now you're holding him back.

[Griffin Newman]

Now you are.

[David Sims]

Who am I holding back?

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is Blank Check, the show about filmographies, the directors and who are given a blank check and the movies that they make as a. As a result. Sometimes those movies hit and sometimes they don't, baby.

[David Sims]

I mean, that was basically bounce.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Sometimes they bounce. Sorry, sorry. Yeah, I didn't know I was gonna do it.

[David Sims]

Who are our guests? It's just like that episode with Gethard where he has Jimmy Fallon. I think about it all the time. Do you remember that one?

[Griffin Newman]

What, you think we're blowing it on this? On that level?

[David Sims]

No, no, not on that level where I'm like, we have great cast and then it's like we're having to choose the show. We have an introduce them. David.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The show has been happening.

[Griffin Newman]

The show good. Everyone's been loving.

[Ben Hosley]

I do feel like this is the problem sometimes with podcasting. It's like you're not tuning in. You didn't tune in.

[Griffin Newman]

Go.

[Ben Hosley]

Like. I'm confused. You know, it just showed up in your feed. You know what you're listening to before.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You know who the guests are.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's true. You do. That always does make me laugh with like. And we haven't introduced our guest. And I'm like, the app tells you I've been doing that.

[Griffin Newman]

You're the one doing that right now.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, here's What I'm gonna say the shift to video podcasts now. Yeah, I'm looking like when the doughboys have a guest and they're. The person is on camera sitting there waiting it's to be introduced. I'm like introd know.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the first has to be our guest today is immediately or just.

[Ben Hosley]

Have them just have a better shot.

[Griffin Newman]

Or do you enter like do you.

[David Sims]

Do the talk show thing like let's bring them in.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No, just introduce them at the top and be get. It's a formality. The show has been happening. Our show currently has been happening for.

[Ben Hosley]

But this is great. 55 minute podcast. Podcast should be podcast. Video show should be video show. We should not have podcasts that are just.

[David Sims]

We put check.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's Griffin, that's David, this is Paul Shear and I am Jason Manzoukas. We are from. How did this get made Ben Producer Ben. The Ben. What's his coins boy. I mean I know we come up with one.

[David Sims]

I don't know. We don't really do this anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

Ballad of Benster. Well, that's. Are you sure Scrugsley?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Wait, how about Inside Lu and Ben Davis? Inside Lewin Ben Davis.

[David Sims]

Well, now it sounds like it's a Ben David Grabinski reference.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It is. Okay, let's get into it, busters.

[Griffin Newman]

We'll get into it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is a movie that to me I loved because Especially in this rewatch because I was like, oh, this is not just a movie that is an homage to all of the. The westerns and all of the great. The John Fords. You know all that stuff. It's an homage to all of the Looney Tunes episodes that are the homage to all of those. There is so much cartoon Looney Tune stuff in here.

[Ben Hosley]

Did you go to the first movie. Did you go to the Vista when they were playing. Oh, what was the movie where it's the. Where there's a sex pillow and George Clooney's carrying it around all the time. I forget.

[David Sims]

I think it's Ryan Gosling is who you're talking about. It's Lars in the real.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Lars in the real. No, no, no. This is. Oh, you mean burn after.

[Ben Hosley]

No, no, no. Yeah, it's a Cullen Brothers movie after reading.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. And it's like. But they. They did a. I thought this is a cool. When they played it there. They played Looney Tunes cartoons before the.

[David Sims]

Screening coincident or just the theater. The Vista.

[Ben Hosley]

And I thought that was a really cool. It was a. It was a great way to kind of. Kind of like there's a lot of cartoon shit.

[David Sims]

And have they ever talked about the.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Looney Tunes, I wonder? Because it felt to me like they were. They were doing both here.

[David Sims]

They were both.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Both, you know, leaning into some of those great big classic Western themes, but then also how we have processed them through cartoons.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, I mean, well, look, the opening scene is Bugs Bunny.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, absolutely. I would argue, and maybe you guys will disagree with me, that the. The one segment I don't particularly care for as much as the.

[David Sims]

If it's the same for me, it is.

[Ben Hosley]

Is the second to last one. The one that is. I Completely the longest.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, really? I love it so much. Really? Yeah. I find Zoe affecting. Yeah, we'll get into it. I love that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The one that, for me, I. I find that is the least interesting is the final one.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree with that.

[David Sims]

Great.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Mark Lin Baker.

[David Sims]

I see. That is my favorite one interesting by far.

[Griffin Newman]

I really. What a good episode.

[Ben Hosley]

Because the last.

[David Sims]

Good episode.

[Griffin Newman]

Great.

[David Sims]

Been great.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's only getting better.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, because the. The last one, I think is like, re.

[David Sims]

Like, I don't know how else this could end without it.

[Ben Hosley]

Right, right. And it's like. And I feel like it's the Cohen's. Like, the other ones are like they're doing riffs on it. And then that one feels like they're really infused. I don't know. It feels different in tone and style.

[David Sims]

And I. I almost. I want them to take another movie, but I almost do want it to be the last thing they ever did, which is them being like, time to die.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. You know, I agree.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, I agree with you that it does feel like an ultimate artist statement in an interesting way. And obviously, like, I think this doesn't work as a movie where you watch it all the way through, rather than separate, you know, instal episodes without that being the end. Because that's what it's all building up towards. And it also does feel like this is what our body of work has been about.

[David Sims]

What is everyone's favorite? I just.

[Griffin Newman]

Just.

[David Sims]

Just say your favorite. Just say your favorite off the top of your.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Mine is the Tom Weights one, because that.

[David Sims]

That I feel like is Ben's favorite scene.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And I. I mean, beyond it is far and away. My favorite heavily features D. Digging.

[David Sims]

Yeah, digging. And you know what? It's not just weights. It's the show.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I think Ben and I both enjoy unearthing things.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

In many ways, the only difference is that Ben has buried it first.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And then I return to the genes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know that Ben was really recently stopped by the tsa? This is a real on his in Italy because he had a portable travel shovel.

[Ben Hosley]

I was gonna joke because he had a shovel.

[David Sims]

You didn't think you could buy a shovel in Italy?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I just wanted to be prepared.

[Ben Hosley]

Why, why were you. Why did he even need a shovel in Italy?

[Griffin Newman]

Because he wanted to bury some Italian jeans.

[David Sims]

He had some digging plans.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Did you bring jeans as well or were you gonna buy those there?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I brought jeans.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And what ended up happening?

[Griffin Newman]

Are you real.

[David Sims]

You're like taking them out of the suitcase and like sort of gesturing with the shovel to them.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Are you buying jeans? Like, are you sourcing denim? Like, what do you do? I buy new Levi's jeans. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Ordered through Italian Amazon. A collapsible shovel as well as a like a ceramic container to put the jeans in.

[Ben Hosley]

Got it. Okay.

[David Sims]

Oh, you mean kind of like a Truscan vibes like you were going to go full like chimera, like ceramic container? Yeah. Okay.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like for or for organs and so forth. Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[David Sims]

We, we, we, yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

The we got there container didn't arrive in time.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But now you the apolog.

[Ben Hosley]

Now you had to your hotel.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Wow.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

So then I was like, well, it's a perfectly good shovel. It's still in the packaging.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I love it.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

But they had a real problem.

[Ben Hosley]

It's a weapon.

[Griffin Newman]

His wife texts me pov My husband arguing with the TSA because they found a portable shovel in his bag. And it's just, it's filmed for far enough away that you can't hear it. And it's been just, just like one.

[David Sims]

Of those like, Karen videos you see on YouTube of like, like, and she's.

[Griffin Newman]

Like investigating a shovel and calling over.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Well, she kept, they kept being like, why do you have this? And I was like, I, I don't.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Know through with it. Ultimately, no, they, they seized it.

[Ben Hosley]

By the way, this is, this interaction is very much at the time I was in the Orlando airport and the woman in front of me had a handgun in her purse. Okay.

[Jason Manzoukas]

She was Florida. That's so weird defense.

[Griffin Newman]

She was going to Disney World.

[Ben Hosley]

She, she had like a, she had like a quilted purse. She did not look like a person that you would think would have a, a large handgun in her purse. Not a derringer, like a, it was a big ass like automatic gun. And she, and when she opened it, she was like, well, yeah, but I, I, she's like, but it's just, it's for me. It's my care. She was so right.

[David Sims]

She said, I'm not bringing anyone else again.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

The idea that it was put in.

[Griffin Newman]

A Ziploc bag like they told me to. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

She's like, and it's, I'm not, I'm, I'm not, it's, I'm not gonna use it for the plane. I'm just bringing this gun for me.

[Griffin Newman]

My personal item.

[David Sims]

I assure you, this was not intended to be used on the plane.

[Ben Hosley]

I sat by, I was standing behind her watching it, and everyone was so calm. I was like, this is a. She was like, wow, you guys are really giving me a hard time about this gun.

[Griffin Newman]

Give me the business with this handgun.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, it was, she had no, like, oh, my God, I can't believe it.

[David Sims]

Shoes or cigarettes. You're like, oh, when did they change the rules? It's like, you were never really allowed to bring guns.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Every once in a while, I'll accidentally arrive at the airport with like a Leatherman in my backpack.

[David Sims]

Backpack.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And I'm always like, oh, no, I'm so sorry. I'm, I am like, throw it away. Please throw it away. I'm, you know, and the idea that I would accident. That somebody would accidentally bring a gun. Right. Just as absent mindedly is hilarious.

[Griffin Newman]

And it feels like the way you're describing it, she was treating it as if, oh, I forgot to dump out my water bottle before putting it through the metal detector.

[Ben Hosley]

And she was so, and this is embarrassing about it, like, no, no remorse. And also, like, but it doesn't have bullets in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, and you really can't just let.

[Griffin Newman]

Me take the water bottle on the plane.

[Ben Hosley]

It was, it was great. So they took the shovel from you.

[David Sims]

Okay, so, so digging is your.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

What is your favorite?

[Ben Hosley]

Well, I mean, and I don't want to, I don't want to shirk it here, but I was going to say that I really do believe the bookends of it are my two favorite.

[Griffin Newman]

And, but I, but busters my favorite.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. Because I think that, like, that opening, like, I feel like it encapsulates in many respects everything I love about the Cohen's in those two Buster scrub Drugs.

[David Sims]

Might be the only one where I have just the tinge of like, this is perfect. As a, as a sketch. It's perfect. I, I, I almost just want, like, give me, I want more of it. Like, see, it's the only way. Everything else, I'm like, this is.

[Ben Hosley]

But I think, but I think that, but I think that that's actually the reason why for me it works. Because you're probably right. Because I think that, like, the minute you go, oh, it could have been a second shorter. Like, you always want to leave people wanting more, especially with a comedy thing. I feel like, you know, the only.

[Griffin Newman]

One, though, that feels like it leaves me wanting more. Because you, man, you could do so many things with this terrifying thing.

[Ben Hosley]

You want him to come back.

[David Sims]

Exactly. To see him locked in like that. And he's always good, especially when he was controlling the actions of Red Hulk. Our president.

[Ben Hosley]

Salute.

[Griffin Newman]

Our president.

[David Sims]

Villainous leader.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I remind you, I gave him.

[David Sims]

Do you think he has the iPad? The action figure has the iPad.

[Griffin Newman]

They didn't make one. No, no.

[David Sims]

Why not?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, why not? Are we talking about the Thinker?

[David Sims]

The villain is leader. Leader.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

The leader, of course, is Peter Capaldi. Thank you. The Suicide Squad.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Megan.

[Griffin Newman]

The Suicide Squad. But no, this is the thing. I was sending David many texts about this that he loved and responded to really quickly about the toy. The multiple re shoots of Captain America.

[Ben Hosley]

Giancarlo Esposito. Completely out of.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And you can tell because when they have their conversation, they walk into a dark cave. It's like they go like. He's like, come in here.

[Griffin Newman]

All right, sure.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And it's. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a Dustin Hoffman little Fockers thing where he keeps popping up around a corner and going, I need to talk to you about something, but far away from any other principal actor. And then you can go back to the scene you were just in. Can I meet Street?

[Ben Hosley]

It is so funny when you look at those scenes, like what's going on in the background where they have just come from. I. I love it all.

[Griffin Newman]

All of the merch of Tim Blake Nelson as the leader is an entirely different design than what's in the movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Really?

[Griffin Newman]

Cuz they shot the entire film one time with an entirely different look for the character and then reshot every second of his footage.

[Ben Hosley]

Wow. We gotta talk to Jesse Falcon about that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's cool.

[Griffin Newman]

That's amazing. Talk to Jesse Falcon.

[Ben Hosley]

Sure. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I know. You should definitely talk to him about that. Didn't get a Marvel legend, but like the Funko Pop. They're like T shirts. Wow. Where it's him with like little glasses and like natty combed hair.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, wow.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's like dressed like a college professor versus his like zombie hair. Right, right. Instead of the like bumpy brain, it's a tall head.

[Ben Hosley]

I feel like, feel like.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Which is the Comics.

[David Sims]

Going for the original comics.

[Ben Hosley]

That's a bummer. It's a bummer because I feel like.

[David Sims]

You know, I just feel like Red Hulk had a great domestic agenda and he didn't get to execute it. No, no.

[Ben Hosley]

And now he's trapped in that island, that island jail.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And the hard thing for Red Hulk is because of the shutdown, he's not getting any of his policies.

[Griffin Newman]

He's also not getting his pills.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, he's got to get those pills.

[Griffin Newman]

Got to get those pills.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Give me that.

[Ben Hosley]

By the way, I was so upset. My. So my son had never seen a Marvel movie. My son never had seen a Marvel movie. We went to Comic Con this year.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And I met your kids at Comic Con. Oh, yeah, Exactly. Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

And so we were. And so there was this moment where we got home, like, what. What is a Marvel?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, yeah.

[David Sims]

How old is your son?

[Ben Hosley]

11, and the other one's nine.

[Griffin Newman]

And also, let's call out the last time you were on the show for Last Action Hero. You talked about that your sons have always been pretty disinterested in movies. Yes. And that was one of the big.

[David Sims]

Kind of movies they liked.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. And that section here is a big. We've now been big movie now. So it's been, it's been working really good for us. But I've watched every. I did a curated selection of it because they really wanted to watch Endgame. And I was like, we can't start there. Let's go. And I, I, I created a. I created a. A crash course to get us to Endgame. And then we went backwards, but they kept on going, when can we see the red Hulk? When can we see the red Hulk? And this is not a bit. This is not a joke. And I was like, we were not going to see that one just yet.

[David Sims]

They're gonna do like eight green Hulks before he gets red, but they think.

[Griffin Newman]

Red Hulk is the fireworks factory ready for red Hulk.

[Ben Hosley]

And so I was like, guys, we can't. And I've been watching everyone with them. And I came home one day, I had done a show, and I come home, and they're like, we watch Red Hulk. And I was like, first of all, the only one they watch without me. And I already seen it. And, And, And I was like, what did you think? And it was funny because it's the first time they were disappointed about, like. And it was.

[David Sims]

I remember when you're 10 or 11, you're like, it wasn't quite the five star experience. Every film in my Life is movie I've ever seen. I didn't detect slight cracks.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right. Are movies allowed to be bad?

[Ben Hosley]

It's a funny moment that you have when you realize that there's a. And, like. And they. They come to me all the time. They go, like, can we watch? I go, no. Well, why not? I don't think you'll like it. But. And it's like, well, is it too adult? Like, it's not too adult. It's just not good. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And it's hard to, like, explain why, but when they see it, they're all right.

[David Sims]

Because.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

Because you're like, yeah, I don't know. Captain America Fights Red Hulk in it. Like. And you're like, well, that sounds good. And you're like, yeah, it does sound good.

[Griffin Newman]

I could ever imagine.

[David Sims]

Salute.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I was going to say, I. You may remember I gave Tim Blake Nelson my Best Supporting Actor award in our Blankies episode this year for this, for Buster Strikes. And I loved him. This segment is so. My sensibility. It is. I. I did see this in the very brief theatrical release.

[David Sims]

Oh, cool. I saw. It was. It was screened for me.

[Griffin Newman]

I think some of the biggest laughs I've ever had in a theater come from this segment, which is just so, so, so funny. My bullseye.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's so true.

[Griffin Newman]

It's so cartoon performance.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's him. It's his performance. It's the song. All the physicality of the tables. And then you've got a Clancy coming.

[Griffin Newman]

Off him in the perfect silhouette.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, that is the most cartoon thing of all time.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The tone of the movie is established when, during this segment, in the very beginning, as he's riding the horse and playing guitar, there's a shot from inside the guitar out. Yeah, you are looking at. From inside the guitar out through the strings, the sound is muffled. And I'm like, oh, this is what they're doing.

[Griffin Newman]

They're having fun.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is fun and silly.

[Ben Hosley]

And I think the thing. And I. When I watched again and I hadn't watched it in a long time, I was like, oh, but this character comes back. Yeah, this is like, hey, he's also the titular.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right, Right.

[David Sims]

You're right. And he does seem otherworldly, obviously. And you're like, maybe he finds a way to.

[Ben Hosley]

Do you go backwards and you see him before? Or do you, like. Like, does every character have an interaction with this guy? Because it's almost. That's a movie, too. Right? You know, and. But no. And I think that that's why I. I also feel what you're saying, like, I want more of it. Like, I think the movie might even feel better if there was a little bit like, maybe if those characters come into that town where he gets killed. I mean, that doesn't quite work though.

[Griffin Newman]

Where, like every other segment is a complete thought that ends at the exact point it has to end to. Because there is so much a punchline. And even the segments that are more Dr. Dramatic do kind of have an inherent sketch comedy game within them. Right. It's all about building this up and knocking it down and getting to that surprising, like, but inevitable conclusion. And his is the one where you're like, you could do seven more sketches with this guy. Yes, that would all be satisfying.

[David Sims]

But also, Mortal Remains, right, has Saul Rubinek, the great Saul Ruben playing a Frenchman. And then Krumholtz is in Buster, the ballad. Buster Scruggs is a Frenchman.

[Griffin Newman]

Their second crummiest film, I would say it is.

[David Sims]

I think Kelsey's just.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the crummiest.

[David Sims]

Um, and I had that. I heard the brief, like, when I was rewatching, I was like, does Chromeholz come back? Because when I saw him I was like, it's a is. And like, then I started thinking, like, what if Mortal Remains? Like, it's like there was a character in each of them and they're all in the carriage. That's fun. And then I watched it, I was like, right, but that's not what it is at all.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Wouldn't that be cool?

[David Sims]

But wouldn't that be cool? But the Cohen's also are. I think when you say to them, wouldn't that be cool? They're like, oh, I don't know, maybe we did something else.

[Ben Hosley]

And I think that the movies that we have watched that are similar and I'm.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm gonna.

[Ben Hosley]

This is a very big thing I'm painting here, but like a Kentucky Fried movie or like Amazon Women on the Moon, which I was able to buy in the uk. Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And dvd, Blu Ray.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

And.

[Ben Hosley]

But like they. That the format of these styles, the style of film where shorts, they. There always is a little bit of a through line, a little bit like.

[David Sims]

You know, what's making this all hang together.

[Ben Hosley]

And this is just.

[David Sims]

Just the Milu.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The West.

[Ben Hosley]

The mil.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The west frontier. The, you know, like the themes of going west and a new start it or whatever, you know, and even though it's the.

[Ben Hosley]

But the book is.

[David Sims]

Is the.

[Ben Hosley]

Is the book the Ballad of But.

[David Sims]

The book based on two different stories.

[Griffin Newman]

You'Re saying the physical Book. In. In the book, two of the six stories are adaptations. Four of them are original. You know what?

[David Sims]

I should open the dossier because I actually think there are lots of questions.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Crack it.

[David Sims]

I don't know the total.

[Jason Manzoukas]

David, I'm begging you to get to the.

[David Sims]

David.

[Ben Hosley]

It's an hour and 12.

[Griffin Newman]

JJ worked on getting the podcast in motion.

[David Sims]

The Cohen, of course, had made short films before. A little bit. Joel made a short film called Soundings in NYU Film School. Obviously. They did the twere section of Paris J, which is charming and funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Semi segment. Teach his own cinema.

[David Sims]

And then they did the world cinema segment. They teach his own cinema with Brolin.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. Tom, I like the. The Nuri Bilga silent. That's his bit at the end of the.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's cowboy wanders into an art house theater and he really likes Climates, the Nuri Bilga silent movie. And he like, tips his cowboy hat and goes tell him, I like.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I've seen this.

[Griffin Newman]

It's really great. Yeah, it's really.

[David Sims]

Tricia Cook co directed a short called Don't Mess With Texas where Ethan was someone. But anyway. But in the early 2000s, the Cohen start writing something called the Ballad of Buster Scruggs. But they don't intend it and intend it maybe right away to be a short. But they realize, like, yeah, this is like an interesting lark. Maybe it could begin to be a collection.

[Griffin Newman]

They also, they tell Tim Blake, like, we're writing this for you. This is this fun idea. We're toying around with you to brother.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

In a kind of more real dangerous Western milieu.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Is there anybody who. And I mean, I think he has said this outright. Is there anybody who has had their career just astronomically catapulted forward than the Cohen's and Tim Blake?

[David Sims]

It is so interesting that they look at him and they're like, we know what to do with you. And it's. That it's all needed.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Exactly. It's all right. It's from oh, brother to this guy to like. It's so very.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, here are the things that are craziest. One, that they actually don't work together at all between. Oh, brother. In this.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And in your mind, you're like, he became a staple.

[David Sims]

Yeah. In your mind, you're like, he's Steven Root. He's in six of these things.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. But the thing about him, too, is, is I think he also is exploding in a lot of movies that are odd that for the most. For the. The eye test for most People are like, oh, that was a Coen Brothers.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

But it. But it feels like. Or he's in those.

[Griffin Newman]

Or he gave a performance in a movie that felt like it could have been a Cohen performance in a more straight film or whatever.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, he's doing a lot of that weird. Not weird work, but just a lot of that. You just associate him with that.

[Griffin Newman]

But also to be a guy who. I'm sorry, David went to Juilliard, is classically trained.

[David Sims]

We've talked about. About Tim. Yeah, I guess just Neo Brother.

[Griffin Newman]

But then, like, you know, was, like, doing character actor stuff, doing comedy stuff, and was sort of like, I think I'm more of a writer and director. That's my main focus. I become friends with Joel Cohen through that. Then he offers me this part. I'm like, I don't really act that much anymore. This is the third lead of the movie. Should I do this? He does it. He never stops working.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not even. He has had Peaks and Valleys brother on. Everyone is like, we know to cast a. This guy forever. He will be in six things a year.

[David Sims]

So back to the dossier, because, well, we can talk about, you know, that.

[Ben Hosley]

So they've done short films.

[David Sims]

Well, they've done short films. They write Buster Scruggs. They start to just write other stuff. It all goes in a drawer at one point. Hbo, who's the only other possible contender for. I think making something like this is like, we do an anthology. Like, that makes some sense. They sort of talk about it. It never goes anywhere. And Ethan says, basically, at some point, they were like, we just need to write, like, one more and it'll be a feature. Right. Like, they had maybe four or five. They were like, let's just do it. The only.

[Ben Hosley]

When you say Buster Scruggs or were they writing Buster first?

[David Sims]

They do Buster Scruggs the first.

[Ben Hosley]

But.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I mean.

[Ben Hosley]

But. Oh, but always as a story. Not as, like, we're gonna write a Buster Scruggs feature.

[David Sims]

Exactly. I think they. They realize, like, no, it's a little trifle. And they just keep adding trifles to.

[Griffin Newman]

Their drawer about it in, like, the early 2000s. And then they're like, we don't really know what to do with this. And you have this thing we wrote for you. We don't really know where this would fit into.

[David Sims]

They love Westerns.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And so they're kind of, as they put it, rummaging around in the Western genre, where they're like, well, we never did a stagecoach movie. We never did a Wagon Train movie. Like, these are. All right. Buster Scruggs is like. It's about, you know, dueling. Right. Like the gold miner thing, the stagecoach thing. It all makes sense. It's like these are things westerns would. Would subgenres of golden.

[Griffin Newman]

They've ostensibly done two feature length westerns at this point, yet both of them are unconventional in their own ways that there are a lot of hallmarks they have not hit at all.

[David Sims]

They write the Mortal Remains, the final piece as a way of unifying. When they look at all their stories, they're like, what is the common theme? And they are like, the common theme of this is death.

[Griffin Newman]

Death comes for us all.

[David Sims]

Exactly like. And it's like it may be out of the ordinary or it might just kind of be like, what can you do? Like you're gonna, you know. But like that is right. That is the common theme. So they write that.

[Griffin Newman]

You could also zoom out and argue. That is the common theme of their body of work.

[David Sims]

The common theme of much art, obviously.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, that's what I was going to say. Say that the first and last chapter to me represent the full scope of their career, which is like death, but.

[David Sims]

Cartoon silliness and then like poetic sort of seriousness. Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And.

[Ben Hosley]

And sort of like the brutality and beauty and it's really. Well, I mean, I think this movie does capture a lot of what they do in very short segments, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

And I, I think you're right. The primary concern of like their careers and their body of work is. Is this is the only guarantee. And what do you do with that knowledge? Right.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

That most of their stories are animated by. How do people process the fact that that is the inevitable end goal. How do people. What. What are they willing to do in order to protect their lives? The cruelty of taking away other people's lives. Like all of this, the negotiation.

[Ben Hosley]

I. I really wish. I also feel like there's no. Like their movies are more. Not more modern, but. But I feel like they. There's less lying here. Like people are much more bald here. I feel like in this film. In this film. Yeah. And I feel like they kind of.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Man, you're obsessed with bald in movies.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, I think it's great. And you're talking about Greek actors, talking about bald actors. But I do think, oh, I love it.

[David Sims]

Greek.

[Griffin Newman]

Greek as hell.

[David Sims]

Greek as hell.

[Griffin Newman]

We left him off the list.

[David Sims]

Well, he is dead.

[Griffin Newman]

That's not.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, he can't just say.

[David Sims]

I mean, he can't. He can't ship off to the audience.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I Believe he was Jennifer Aniston's godfather.

[Griffin Newman]

He was that, right?

[David Sims]

Is that John Aniston?

[Ben Hosley]

His vinyl is great. His singing vinyl is so.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I can imagine that guy had some pipes.

[Ben Hosley]

He does a little William Shatner esque. But I feel like what's fun about this is like these people are who they say they are and what they like. No one's like, hiding that much. And I feel like a lot of Coen Brothers movies is about manipulation or covering.

[Griffin Newman]

But I also think that's like a principle of the dramatic idea of the Western, right? It is wide. It is a genre that people are still so obsessed with is. It's this notion of like white hats and black hats and men meeting in a town square and looking each other in the eye and saying the thing. And these moral lines, you know, this sort of like, this. This midpoint culturally between, like, we built just enough of a society that we're starting to establish rules and structures, an idea of how a town works and what jobs are, are, you know, and. And dressing it up. And yet things are settled by guys shooting each other in the head, right? You know, that. That it's this like. Like exact midpoint in like the human evolution, right? Western getting away from barbarians.

[David Sims]

To what extent has civilization arriving?

[Ben Hosley]

And then what civilization sort of. And what it take, they. And then where it manipulates to is people like, oh, I can circumvent the civilization. I can manipulate it. I can gain. Get money from it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You know, like, what I feel like is part of it is. And Zoe Kazan has that line when her brother has died, and they say, do you want to go back or do you want to move forward? And she said, there is no back. There is only moving forward. And that's everybody in this movie, everybody in life is marching forward towards certain death. It's just happening so much sooner in this movie because circumstances are brutal.

[David Sims]

And these things have to be 15 minutes long as well.

[Griffin Newman]

They basically all of them average between 15 and 20. Other than the kazam, which is about 35, right?

[David Sims]

The rattled is the sort of center, and that's later.

[Ben Hosley]

That's why I feel like that. Why I don't like it as much as the others is because I think it does break the structure too late in the film because it's right at the.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like that is the exact thing I like about.

[David Sims]

I can see Griffin's side of it. I agree with you, Paul, that I, right, am kind of like this. This is like a few too many beats and I've Been with this movie for a while and you know, I don't know. I don't know. I, I, I, I want to know.

[Ben Hosley]

Why you guys like it Eventually.

[David Sims]

Okay. They take this project once they're sort of like, okay, like we've put this all together to Annapurna. As we said. Annapurna sells it to Netflix pretty quickly, according to the Cohen's. And it is a mistake of trade reporting that it's reported as a series. And I think it's partly that it was still so new.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

For these movies to be on Netflix and it's announced as this anthology of stories that I think, you know, Variety at all are just kind of like, oh, is it like a television miniseries? Like so hot right now.

[Ben Hosley]

No filmmaker would be going with a film film to Netflix at this point, you know, like. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Or well, also part of that, I.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Mean, kind of cards we've got. Right.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

With like a film. Like, I see what you're saying.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it felt like Netflix something similar to Annapurna, which was what's the thing you can't get made anywhere else. And when Netflix made them, a lot of times you were like, oh, there's a reason no one else made this. The script had problems. Things like Duncan Jones is mute. Right. Where you were like, oh, these development hell movies are now going to Netflix as a salvation versus the ones that were good but were challenging. It felt like Anna Perner was financing and then getting theatrical distribution for it.

[David Sims]

Was more doing the Scott Ruden thing of like, what's the thing you've been trying to make? We can figure out how to make it for you.

[Griffin Newman]

If cinema for adults has kind of died, then we'll put up the money.

[Ben Hosley]

But it's kind of also like movies that can't have good trailers. Right. You can't.

[David Sims]

Right. Movies would struggle with an opening weekend expectation or whatever.

[Ben Hosley]

So here you just slap it in Netflix. You open, open up your, your app and there. And then you're like, it's there, I'm watching.

[Griffin Newman]

But they're absolutely kind of riding high for going to Netflix at this point. A lot of the people who are going to Netflix are like coming off of a shaky period, I guess. Irishman's the year after this, which is another big turning point of like, oh, fuck, here's this movie that the studios were too scared to make and they're rolling out the carpet for Scorsese and Irishman.

[David Sims]

The Scorsese. The thing about Irishman and Flower Moon is like, they are very, very long and very Expensive and they were expensive to make. They probably still would have made decent amounts of money, but they're long and expensive.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't amount in theaters.

[Ben Hosley]

I would have loved to have seen the Cohen's do Flower Moon. That story is a Cohen like that to me and it drives me. I love Scorsese obviously, but that I would love to have seen the humor in that more. Because that's a movie where you're talking about a lot of this kind of just manipulation fun.

[David Sims]

For sure. There's a way to make it more. This is a quote from Joel. I like this about television thing about TV series I don't understand. I think it's hard for both of us to get our minds around is feature films have a beginning, a middle and an end. Open ended stories have a beginning and middle and then they're beaten to death until they're exhausted and they die. I do think that's a funny way to talk about really successful television because only a couple shows truly got to end on their own terms. Well, usually if you're successful it's like, yay, our show rocks.

[Griffin Newman]

Eventually it's like of your own success.

[David Sims]

We're still going. And it's like, no, like you're done.

[Ben Hosley]

Except for the UK model which was, you know, was like, yeah, no, but you're right.

[Griffin Newman]

Most, most often shows end, will never end. Most often shows end unresolved because they didn't get where they wanted to and they were taken away too soon. Or they're victims of their own success that are stretched out far past the natural ending point of the story.

[David Sims]

The Cohen also say they are literal about this. They're like, no studio would have financed this film like with the one like where it's like, hey, why'd you go to streaming? And they're like, why do you think nobody's going to make this movie? This is not a commercial movie and it's an expensive movie. And we see how the industry is changing and they only want to make franchise movies and like, you know, they're.

[Ben Hosley]

Expensive because it's period.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I think this movie was like a huge pain in the ass to make because this is the one where Ethan's like, I am really exhausted. It's the reason.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. The split up in quotes between the two of them is at the end of this, Ethan's like, I'm so fucking wiped out. I don't want to make another movie. And Joel goes, I guess if you don't want to do it, can I do stuff? So solo.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And then Ethan ends up getting this second win and deciding that he wants to make very, very serious, complicated lesbian John.

[David Sims]

Society. Right. For society.

[Griffin Newman]

But he. When. When it was sort of talked about and people were like, are they talking around a blow up that happened between the two of them? Was there a falling out? Is there an illness? Is it an industry thing? Whatever it was, the line was always Ethan saying, we made too many westerns in a row. That. That no country was tough. Some films in between. True Grit was really tough.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Some films and then this. He basically was like, it was an idiotic ambition on our part. It felt like making six complete movies, even though they were short. It felt like six separate productions in a row.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Scope of them is massive.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

They're not. They don't feel small. Not at all. I mean, maybe in past, but that's about all exteriors. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He was like. It was just months on uncovered sets. Every couple of weeks, it would basically reset with a new cast. We'd have to rethink visually the new story.

[Jason Manzoukas]

So many of these people are old. Like Tom Waits. I was watching Tom. Wait, did he look old to you? Do so much. I was like, wow, he must have been exhausted.

[Griffin Newman]

No. And I think Ethan even said, like, that much time outdoors, uncovered sets, it wouldn't have been a problem when we were young.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But we got ourselves out there. And even just being like five years older than they were when they made True Grit or more seven, you know, and that's already a couple years past. They were like the additional 10 years between when we started making westerns and this one, we were just like, I can't handle this.

[David Sims]

Yeah. So I've got a question for all the gamers out there. Are you. Are you seriously gonna miss out on Alienware's biggest gaming sale of the year?

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, these are Black Friday prices we're talking about, so it's not just another sale. I took a look, and this is some pretty big bang for your buck.

[David Sims]

Yeah. You know, Italianware with some of the most advanced engineering out there. They got systems at top of reviewers lists. And what about a gift for yourself?

[Griffin Newman]

You gift yourself a new Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming. I mean, this thing's got performance at the absolute next level with Intel Core Ultra processors.

[David Sims]

And even better, you can get it during Black Friday. Plus you can save on all kinds of displays and accessories, like the Alienware 27 4K QD OLED gaming monitor for ultimate visual fidelity. I might need that. These really are incredible deals on PCs with otherworldly performance.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's what I do. I'd visit alienware.com deals soon and grab what you can before their biggest sell of the year goes dark. David?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

This episode of Blank Check is brought to you by Warby Parker, our friends at Warby Parker. And boy, do I have a of lot, lot of things to say about them.

[David Sims]

I.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You're a.

[David Sims]

You're a committed, wary Parker. Ding dong, who's at the door Creek.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I guess I'll have to hold my thoughts for a second. Hold on.

[David Sims]

Who is that?

[Griffin Newman]

Someone's rolling in their own microphone and their own desk.

[David Sims]

Hello.

[Griffin Newman]

Hello, this is Ira Glasses. Welcome to this American site. This is a podcast about wearables that can prove your eyesight. Glasses, contact lenses.

[David Sims]

Griffin, you talk to this guy.

[Griffin Newman]

You want me to talk to Ira Glasses? All right.

[David Sims]

What's up, Ira Glasses?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm here with a really fascinating story. It's about a company called Warby Parker. They use nothing but premium materials in every frame. Warby Parker designs every frame in house. And our collection includes silhouettes, colors, and fits made to suit every face.

[David Sims]

Do you have anything for this character beyond this voiceover you're doing?

[Griffin Newman]

Excuse me.

[David Sims]

I'm just gonna say I'm here in.

[Griffin Newman]

Good faith speaking to you about an astonishing story, a story of human perseverance.

[David Sims]

Everyone knows what Warby Parker is, right? Because it's basically. They've got retail locations across the US And Canada, so you can go in and get styled by an expert advisor. They've got glasses that are affordable. Griffin, and you, not Ira Glasses. Who? I don't know. You are very like. You're always using them, right?

[Griffin Newman]

I use their glasses a lot, but I really want to hear what I wear glasses has to say.

[David Sims]

A lot of Warby Parker locations offer comprehensive eye exams starting $85. That's really cheap.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. David, I was about to say that I don't appreciate you refusing to acknowledge.

[David Sims]

I just don't think the character should just roll in and then verbatim read adcom.

[Griffin Newman]

Not a character.

[David Sims]

That's all I'm going to say.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a story I am breaking, is a story of the human spirit.

[David Sims]

I just feel like usually the characters got like a big thing we have to sort of sort out, and then we.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, really? What's your big thing? What's your big thing want to be.

[David Sims]

Done with the ad?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, we have different approaches to podcasting. My name is Ira Glasses, and this is this American site. Many Warby Parker locations offer comprehensive eye exams starting at $85.

[David Sims]

I already said that.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, did you say this? Add a pair and save 15% off when you purchase two or more prescription pairs of glasses or sunglasses.

[David Sims]

I do appreciate you saying that because I do think that's a pretty.

[Griffin Newman]

So maybe I have something to keep.

[David Sims]

Available both online and in store.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say, and if you're.

[David Sims]

Gonna buy something online, they got free shipping, they got free 30 day returns and they got that thing where you take a picture of your face and you can kind of put the glasses on your face.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey, I don't come to your door and knock the microphone out of your mouth.

[David Sims]

Well, you literally did just do that.

[Griffin Newman]

But did I knock the microphone out of your mouth?

[David Sims]

Well, I mean, I suppose you came.

[Griffin Newman]

To your door, but let the record show. Did I knock the microphone out of your mouth?

[David Sims]

No, you're. No.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, so I'll, I'll accept that. I came to your door.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Hey, Griff, just real quick.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, hey, this is Griffin and very different voice.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I just wanted to ask like, have you picked out any glasses of Warby Parker?

[Griffin Newman]

Of course. All my glasses are from Warby Parker right now. These are my manes I'm wearing. They are the toddy. They are the toddy and tortoise shell. I love them. I often buy two pairs at once so I can get the same style in two different colors and make one sunglasses, one clear lenses. And I can swap them out if I'm feeling a little saucy. But who cares what I have to say? Hourglasses. What do you have to say? I use this product and you should too.

[David Sims]

Okay. Warby Parker has over 300 locations to help you find your next pair of glasses. You can also head over to warbyparker.com check right now to try on any pair visually. That's warbyparker.com check. Warbyparker.com check. Ira, get the hell out of my studio.

[Griffin Newman]

I wear the bode. That is the pair I wear just so you have a visual picture of me in your head. I wear about IR glasses. This American site.

[David Sims]

Tim Blake Nelson, as you say, had been shown this script all the way back when. And then apparently just once in a while and he was excited about it. And then once in a while Joe will be like, hey, by the way, one day we're going to do that, so get ready.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then they're like, we're going to do it. So can you do pistol tricks and can you play guitar and can you sing and also can you learn all this dialogue?

[Griffin Newman]

And Tim was Like, starting now.

[David Sims]

Right. Tim was like, what?

[Jason Manzoukas]

And.

[David Sims]

And he had to, like, learn guitar specifically to be in this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

His son is, like, a very good musician. Oh, well, he. He has a beautiful singing voice, and he learned, like, singing was part of his training at Juilliard. But he. He credits his son. He has a really good WTF episode. Oh, okay. Where he credits his son, where he was just like, this incredible bonding exercise of me being able to go to my son, who was a guitar prodigy, and be like, I'm hiring you to spend the next six months, teach me how to do all of this. And they got very close doing it.

[David Sims]

Can I give you Zoe Kazan's incredible take on. On this movie? And she obviously. I mean, like, with all these actors, it's like, hey, why'd you do it? She's like, I don't know. It's a Coen Brothers movie. Like, what, am I going to not do it? She says she thinks the whole thing is all bound together in a really clever way. Each chapter prepares you for the next. The first one is like, it's going to be a good time. People will die, but it's going to be fun. By the third one, that expectation has been reversed. It's like, amusement comes with a price. Entertainment is not easy. And like, you've watched the deaths of all these protagonists. Right. Tom Waits is. Reverses the pattern a little, bear a bit. There's hope. And then Gal who gets Rattled is the opposite, where you're like, you're in it. You're invested the most. It has the most crushing ending. And then the final one is just this dream logic of, like, you know, this museum of death.

[Jason Manzoukas]

What comes next? Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

We'll get into it more. But that's my.

[Ben Hosley]

I love that quote. That's a.

[David Sims]

She's fucking smart.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone who has worked with her says that as well.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. And I think that she and I.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Worked together on the Nia Vardalos movie. I hate Valentine's Day. You're angry. Oh, don't you worry. I am.

[David Sims]

Do you go on date with her?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm so worried.

[David Sims]

Do you go on a date with her and she's like, I hate.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No. No. Nia Vardalos is falling in love with John Corbett once again.

[Griffin Newman]

Four movies together.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

She has a kind of regular lunch, group of friends. You're one of the kind of downloads with. And it's me, Zoe Dratch and Judah Friedlander.

[David Sims]

That's all the same age.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

The Wrecking Crew.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The Wrecking Crew, AKA the Wrecking.

[Griffin Newman]

Crew.

[David Sims]

That movie is not perfect. It is.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Wow, David. It is very gracious of you, David. It is not perfect, but I had the most wonderful time making it sound great. Dynamite. And it was maybe one of the very first movies I was ever in in a meaningful way, like multiple scenes.

[David Sims]

That's a long time ago, you know?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I will also say that when you just said something about. Not about Valentine's Day, but the. The. The dossier coming up and saying, like, that she read all the pieces, which. Yes, again, these are two things that surprised me. A, that Netflix didn't approach them, and then B, that they're giving the full script out to everyone because it feels, to me, it's like, oh, here's the piece we want you to do. Don't worry about the rest. It's not important.

[Griffin Newman]

Weird misreporting about this film and the assumption that it was a TV show was also that, like, in some of the trade announcements, they saw said that it was a project under Annapurna's new television division.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And also because Netflix is doing so much playing with format stuff, I have heard conspiracy theories in the past that there was a little bit of deliberate trickery. And knowing that Netflix would be more willing to sign off on this, even though their intention was always to make it a movie, that is pure conjecture. But they have been very upfront. Everyone who works on this movie is very upfront that it. It was like, the script is a finished thing. It is in this order, and everyone reads it from beginning to end.

[Ben Hosley]

And this is. You know, when I talked to Quentin Tarantino, he talked publicly on the radio. So I'm not. I'm not. Not radio. But on the podcast, he was saying that they kind of tricked Harvey into Kill Bill, you know, to kind of maneuver how they wanted it to be released, too. So I think that that's just part of good producing.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And I think that someone was able to trick Harvey after Harvey tricked so many people.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, 100% that.

[David Sims]

What's up with him?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Haven't heard from him in a minute.

[Griffin Newman]

You're saying mostly just the editing room. His notorious editing room battle.

[Ben Hosley]

But I do feel like that. Like, I think that that's all fair play because it's sort of like, just get it made. Go get the thing. Because it doesn't make a difference for Netflix, ultimately, I don't think.

[Griffin Newman]

No. And they've been very clear that it was like, this is always what we wanted to be, and that's what it was.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And whether it was just Misreporting because the tend to keep the lid on very tight while they're working on stuff. So there's a lot of speculation that leads to like fact theorizing, getting printed as fact or if that was part of their kind of clever.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, you blew my mind when you said that he wasn't sick for the breakup. I. Oh. I thought whatever I read was that he was sick. And then that was like, I'm really.

[Griffin Newman]

Tired and I like need time to recharge and maybe I'll come back to it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I get it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It was a pain to make. They shot it in Nebraska, Colorado, New Mexico. Almost all on location, except for the final segment, which was shot on a stage, obviously mostly in its carriage.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, that also in the ass that this first sequence is in the very famous. I've shot there multiple times. The famous Old west town that's standing in. Right outside of Los Angeles and that you would see Deadwood and. Yeah. Everything in. It's a.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't they. Is it in that segment where they refer to Valverde in this movie, which is.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Do they really?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Which is the famous kind of shared fake.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like fake South American country that like the.

[David Sims]

In a commando.

[Jason Manzoukas]

What's the guy, the writer who wrote all those movies?

[David Sims]

Steven d'.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Souza.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Thank you.

[David Sims]

It's a Duza ref. Actually.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

But Valverde is invoked at some point in this film. There is this like, owning of the kind of like collective monom. Myth of the American west via movies. Right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, also, not for nothing the fact that in that opening segment, Tim. Blake Nelson is killed by Seth Bullock. Tim Oliphant.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You know, putting a Deadwood actor in there. Putting like. There's something really wonderful about.

[Ben Hosley]

I also thought that that opening sequence is movie Old West. He's in the white cowboy outfit. It's like. It's very. Everything else is much more grounded in a more realistic way.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The juxtaposition of him and Clancy Brown is incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

He's like a 40s movie cowboy and he is killed by like a 60s movie cowboy. Both of them are fictionalized, heightened, stylized version of phony character cowboys existing in a milieu of like. These are what the actual guys were like.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is basically the Cohen's playing with toys.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You know this first one.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

And like, you're kind of identifying why.

[David Sims]

Yeah. But like the joke of like. Okay. Or the puzzle of like, you're in the saloon, you're not allowed a weapon. How do you. Yes. How do you kill somebody? Like, it's fun.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Seth Bullock, but also Roy Rogers.

[David Sims]

But it's also right what Griffin is saying, of course. Kind of like now your time has come, buster. Like you're gonna, you, you, you're gonna get knocked off the board.

[Griffin Newman]

Western isn't gone. But the, the type of.

[David Sims]

The trick shots, the cheerful singing and.

[Jason Manzoukas]

All that, it's like officially uncool and it's not. It happens before. But I loved the sequence where he kills Surly Joe. He's singing the Surly Joe song and dancing and everyone's getting on board for it. But they keep cutting back to Surly Joe's brother coming in and finding Robinson.

[David Sims]

Who did this.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That sequence is so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Every single line of dialogue he has is funny to me. It is funny in the way it's written. You can just imagine the Cohen's giggling to themselves about like. Imagine Tim saying this. There are moments of like pure like elation that I have in this segment. I mean his killing of Clancy Brown is truly. I know I've been using a lot of hyperbole across the series because I love the Cohen so much. That is amongst the hardest I've ever laughed in a theater.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's so good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I lost my fucking mind.

[David Sims]

It's so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

I, I saw this at, at the IFC with our friend JD Amato in like one of the five basically unadvertised days. It was playing and there was almost no one else in the theater outside of a recently canceled Louis ck.

[David Sims]

Oh, wow.

[Griffin Newman]

It was like a very odd experience where we walk in, we're like, that's him. Right?

[Ben Hosley]

And then we're laughing at anything.

[Griffin Newman]

He laughed a lot.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He liked it a lot.

[Ben Hosley]

You're talking about the author, right?

[Griffin Newman]

The novelist?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

It would be funny if he works.

[Griffin Newman]

In a western military as well.

[David Sims]

Kick the boy board and made him shoot himself once. But then he does it then six times.

[Griffin Newman]

Six times is the funniest thing I've ever.

[Ben Hosley]

I feel like the image I see when I look at him in this is Bugs Bunny with the guns on his holster. That is like. I feel this image. It's like everything. If you told me this was literally shot for shot of Warner Brothers Looney Tunes.

[Griffin Newman]

And I even think the dust silhouette and all these things of like establishing cartoons logic. The way at the end when he dies, he becomes an angel with little wings and a harp.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, straight Looney Tunes.

[David Sims]

Oscar nominated song. Sings an Oscar when a cowboy trades his purse for wings. Well, he performs it in the movie.

[Ben Hosley]

I can't remember if he performed it.

[David Sims]

I think Gillian Welch did it on stage.

[Griffin Newman]

Mostly the other guys singing it, but I believe Gillian Welsh did it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, David Rawlings.

[David Sims]

David Rawlings is the other. Wow. There we go.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Do you guys know those albums? Don't worry about it.

[David Sims]

I was going to say, it's like Jason does not have, like, a laptop open.

[Griffin Newman]

Short side tangent. That will be worth it, please. I promise you.

[David Sims]

It's fine.

[Ben Hosley]

Now we're in.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The show has started great.

[Griffin Newman]

We're actually ahead of school.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's so funny. David has genuinely calmed down.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The tension was just for the words that begin the show a little bit.

[Griffin Newman]

We're doing great. We only have five more segments to talk about. So here's my side.

[Ben Hosley]

David, as a parent, I feel that pressure. I. I feel. Feel it. I've recorded episodes where I've come down and my wife is like, what. What possibly could you be doing?

[David Sims]

Like, the idea of coming down and being like, oh. But we had 18 more minutes on.

[Griffin Newman]

Predator and we're not resolved on the.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Griff and I are like, let's go.

[Griffin Newman]

Bachelors.

[Jason Manzoukas]

We have nothing to.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, I'm in New York. I don't have my family. I'm very happily can say it was on the, like.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, we do have a show tonight.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, that. That's. Yeah, that. That was.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm coming.

[Griffin Newman]

The show.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, really?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, my gosh.

[David Sims]

Well, in Manhattan. Right? It's.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

The great New York City.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The great town hall.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. George Lucas talk show.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

When we were doing so much of it during the pandemic over a lot of streams, Connor, as he is, want to do, got very into the idea of producing an original soundtrack album on virtual vinyl. I remember because there'd been enough songs that we like improvised or musical performance. Yes. So there were, like a couple original songs, but there were times where we ended up doing improvised, like, covers of other songs. And Connor, as is his want, was like, I'm gonna produce like, you know, 300 of these or whatever, but I want to legally clear every single second of it. And he spent like a year going through and clearing every kind of musical. Musical thing. And any artist we had had on the show who had representation from someone else, making sure. Like, no one's gonna make money off this, but I want this to all be above board. Right. And one of the things was we had someone perform one of the songs from the Star Wars Holiday Special. And there's so much mystery around the Star Wars Holiday Special because everyone ran for the hills and tried to, you know, eschew credit for that. And he was like, we gotta figure out who wrote this song. I think it was the br. Her song. And Connor did months of digging and found out that it was written by two kind of like go to 50s 60s variety show comedy legends who did most of the original songs for the Carol Burnett show. Oh, cool. Who died decades ago. And that Disney has never bothered to copyright the holiday special songs because Lucas disowned it.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Fox never did it. Lucasfilm never did it. Disney didn't do it. Now it's like just out there. No one has the rights. And he was like, who is the next of kin for this? These old Borsch Beldy comedy writers. And it was Gillian Welch. Her parents wrote the songs for the Star wars holiday special and Connor got connected with her and he was like, weirdest phone call you're ever going to receive in your life. You actually own five Star wars songs.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And the best have any. Did she have any knowledge of that?

[Griffin Newman]

No. So like she like made a deal with him for nothing. Right. But she was like, thanks for letting me know. I like have IP over Disney.

[Ben Hosley]

That is wild. And I feel like that. Well, I mean, that special is amazing. I got to do a documentary about it where I got to read the outline that was given. And it is one of the best pieces of like, it. It's. It's great. I mean, everything about that and how weird it was, I feel like. I feel like it needs to be released like in a. In a. And it's remastered.

[David Sims]

I think George and Harrison may have to depart this mortal coil for like, it to actually be like.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, did you hear though, that.

[David Sims]

That they're remastering the original? Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, I. I live in hope.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The story had always been. I live in a new hope.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

The stories had always been that. Contractually, when George sold Lucasfilm to Disney, one of his baked in conditions was, you cannot release the original theatricals. That even upon leaving, he was like, you can't do it without me.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

So something has.

[David Sims]

Something has changed. Either they convinced him or he. Yeah, you know, it expired.

[Griffin Newman]

Or do you know that like right now as we record in the Disney parks, they have Chewbacca, the walk around Chewbacca with the red robe and the Life day orb.

[David Sims]

Oh, wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, they will not let the holiday special out legally, but there's like merchandise of it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

References.

[Griffin Newman]

And there's references to it.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, because now what they have done is Lego did a. I. I worked with Disney and a very high up executive At Lucasfilm, I had done a special for Marvel where I did documentary about this failed comic book called Brute Force. And we went back and we got to do some stuff and, and Kevin Feige allowed us a little bit of leeway until there was none. And then, and, but then they were like, can you do this for the, the special so we can maybe re air the special and. But that died a much quicker death.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Someone catches wind and is like, no. Right. Squish.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I, I, no, I just, I, I love everything about the segment. The moment for me that is like I enter a state of nirvana is when in the sort of standoff, he turns to the camera. It is not the first time he has spoken to the camera.

[David Sims]

The mirror or he's like, and I'm up and I'm backwards and I'm looking at him.

[Griffin Newman]

It's before that introduces that because at the beginning, of course, he's on the horse, he's singing, he's talking to the camera, he's acknowledging it, right? But then he's sort of been in his world entering these tough bars. Everyone's laughing at him being like, what the is up with this guy? And then he reasserts his dominance, right? And this whole like hoenn thing of this tension between this guy who seems like an idiot goofball, also being capable of like intense horrific violence, right? The sort of like subtext under the movie fied cleaned up version of an American myth. And he stayed in that reality for like 10 continuous minutes, I feel like. And then he's in the shoot off. He's done the five fingers, right? He like, in this shootout, decides to shoot all five of the guys fingers off so that he can't fire the gun. And he's like trying to figure out if he can do it with his left, left dominant hand, right? And Tim Blake Nelson turns back to the camera that's behind him and goes, I ain't got but the one bullet left. And it's with this like, Bugs Bunny, ain't I a stinker? Like, he's thrilled at the challenge.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, what's so fun about this whole segment is it starts off so big in scale, in scope, and it just gets closer and closer and closer in. So that at a certain point, especially once he's talking to us, it is conspiratorial. Tim Blake Nelson is including us in his mischief. And us, he's letting us in on what's going on in a way that I was like, oh, I love it. And that he, that there are no more narrators that there are no more talking to us. That goes away once he dies.

[Griffin Newman]

And what's happening here goes beyond self defense, right? What you need to do to survive in the West. Because even like the Clancy Brown thing is like the rules of poker, you know, that's a dead man's hand. You have to respect that. If he doesn't like, when he goes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I would appreciate it if you would go and turn your firearm into the closet over there or whatever. You know, the gun, the gun chick was so funny. He's just so unfazed by everything.

[Griffin Newman]

But at this point, it's like, okay, there's a shootout. He. There is self defense. He needs to shoot first. He's actually just torturing this man. Well, but to not just shoot him in the head, but to shoot his fingers off one by one.

[David Sims]

It's not just a white hat for. It's violent, it's cruel. There's a weird dissonance to that that I love.

[Griffin Newman]

And then as you say, at that moment, after he shot all five fingers off, turns the audience and is like, we're having fun here, right? And.

[Ben Hosley]

And. But this is also. We talked about Looney Tunes, but that's also Three Stooges, which I think is very much them too. Like, Three Stooges is violent at all, right? And if you were to look at. It's like you can see it one way and you can see it another way. And I think that, like, to your point, Jason, when they. When he's like my brother like that, it's like, oh, we are. That's this weird line that the whole movie walks where it's like, it is real. But we also have him going up with a little angel wings and a harp. And it's like. And that, to me, that's what I love about this. Just the. I mean, it's. I would say it's probably the best piece of the entire film because I think it's. It is the most. The most. Most thought out, the most beautifully done.

[Griffin Newman]

This beautiful moment of like, I got the one bullet, turns around, fucking vanity mirror, silver plated, right? Figuring out the angles of where to shoot. Then he calls out, like, swisky. I shouldn't get too fancy with it. As if he isn't already doing this trick shot. Then murders this man in cold blood and then gets challenged to a new duel, but by this, like, new Hollywood Western cowboy, right? And this guy is obeying the same rules. The reason why he's able to shoot Buster Scruggs down is because he doesn't do the fucking preamble.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, right.

[Ben Hosley]

He's not talking to the camera. He's not playing the. He's not playing to the thing because he like Buster Scruggs is actually playing to the audience.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Because he's like. He's like, yeah, yeah, we could do the count. Like he. It's almost like someone's calling him off stage.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The moment where he uses the same mirror to look at the bullet hole in his own head. Head is wonderful.

[Griffin Newman]

And the reveal.

[Ben Hosley]

The framing of that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And even when this cowboy is walking away and singing this Oscar nominated song, he's not doing it down the barrel of the lens. He's singing. But it's like we shift to like a cat balloo.

[David Sims]

We. We have to move on though. We do have to move. We have five more segments to do.

[Griffin Newman]

Segment two, near Aladon.

[David Sims]

Anyone help me? No. Okay, now this is the simplest one joke like premise. Right? Right. It's sort of all building to punchline. I do really like feel this is the most like. It feels like a cute little short story.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is the slightest.

[Ben Hosley]

Wait, which one is.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Tell me this is Franco.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Stephen Root.

[David Sims]

I think Franco is Galactus. Incredibly well cast is in this.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Galactus is in it.

[David Sims]

He's there. He's there.

[Griffin Newman]

Me of my cosmic burden.

[David Sims]

I hope.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Hunger.

[David Sims]

I don't. I mean, I don't know what you.

[Ben Hosley]

But Kang is there too, right?

[Griffin Newman]

A couple Kangs. There are a couple Kangs.

[Ben Hosley]

They're all Kangs. I mean this is the cool thing about this. Everybody in this is a Kang. Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I loved when the time Variance Authority showed up.

[Griffin Newman]

I love Mr. Timely when he's. When's he coming back?

[David Sims]

Many things in whatever phase four, five, whatever that was. Five, six, where they were like, this makes sense. There's a lot to draft off here where I'm like, you guys have nothing.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry, nothing in my memory. This was like the first major post like Franco thing, which gives it an interesting air because you're like here he is not charming at being an outlaw.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right. He's really.

[Griffin Newman]

He's well past goodness. Really all about like this guy just barely escaping culpability for his actions.

[David Sims]

Kind of the last thing he's done.

[Griffin Newman]

That mostly disappears after this.

[David Sims]

Right. That anyone really watch.

[Ben Hosley]

I was wondering if this was. Was shot for.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it was shot before but came out quite a bit after because of their post production.

[David Sims]

It's similar to the Deuce where it's like the deuce wrapped up in 2019 or whatever. Which is the other sort of last thing he did of note.

[Griffin Newman]

But this is his last major credit for a good chunk of time.

[David Sims]

He's such a good comparison to Root in total, like, gonzo mode.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, my God.

[David Sims]

Stephen Root in, like, silliest bug man mode.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I mean, incredible.

[David Sims]

And like. I mean, the gag. The thing I said, the thing about this one is, apart from the gag of first time, which is hilarious. Right. Which, like, hit for me so hard and I laughed when I saw it, is that in this one, we're really, for the first time seeing, like, Native Americans, this. Comanches as, like, classic Hollywood villains where they are just, like, violent and scary and have no character. Right. The movie does this twice because.

[Griffin Newman]

Rattles like a martyr as well.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Basically.

[David Sims]

And I think it put people off the. Because it's like, you don't see this in revisionist westerns basically, ever. Like, this kind of, like, classic cartoony cowboys and Indian kind of villain thing. And I feel like they're. They would. The Cohens would just be like, yeah, well, this is the milieu we're playing.

[Griffin Newman]

Riffing on the history of these types of films.

[David Sims]

But it is quite shocking.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I love the moment in it when the. When they're attacking and. And. And Franco's got the noose around and there's one of the. One of the guys who's trying to hang. Hang him first gets an arrow in the throat.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Pulls it out. Second arrow in the throat. I was like, these are the jokes. This is so good.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But then it's such a funny sequence. And then the Indians leave and everybody else is dead and it's just Franco on his horse. The tension between the horse's appetite for forcing it further and further, further tightening the noose tighter and tighter. That tension is great.

[Ben Hosley]

I love. It's such a great moment because you have this great action scene and it is this, like. It gives it so much more weight because any moment he could also be. His neck could be snapped and it's done. And it's like. It's. It's so great. But then that right next to, like, moments before Stephen Root coming out in pots in pain.

[Griffin Newman]

Pan.

[David Sims]

The silliest get up. Right. Right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Is.

[Ben Hosley]

And it's amazing.

[David Sims]

And he's under.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He's also put. It's. He's stripped down with a catchphrase pan shot. And the glee with which he's screaming pan shot. Is so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

What's skillful about this, too, is it's all wind up to one punchline. Right. It Is the like tremendous Cohen's comic irony of a guy being able to be hung for the second time. Right. To be the kind of like old sage. I've been through this.

[David Sims]

Well, he's died, right. He's kind of a ghost. And so he's like. When he's not scared to die the second time.

[Griffin Newman]

See, I think it's the opposite thing. My read is this guy thinks that he can't be killed.

[David Sims]

Oh, that's. That's a fair reading.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Smile.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I've been here before.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

This will work.

[Ben Hosley]

Something will work out, right? I do think, think though it is a one joke thing. But I also think the first joke is one of the funniest. A bank in the middle of nowhere. Like, it is. There's no town, there's no anything. And it's like that image.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Is.

[David Sims]

You're right.

[Griffin Newman]

You're right.

[David Sims]

You don't even think about it. Like, the absurdity of this.

[Ben Hosley]

That is such a funny fucking thing. And then it just goes and heightens height and sight.

[David Sims]

Someone making it all the way out there and being like, what this place needs is a bank.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Going back to this awkward notion of like these, these developing proper society of America.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like this is how things should be and yet it isn't quite right yet.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. No, it's so wrong. And I think that that's like. And that's what I love about, like everyone is making these mistakes. But then also, you know, it's like not doubling down, but it's like, I love how fierce he is to protect himself. Like, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Like he goes into battle mode. Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Like he's an idiot maybe to build that bank there, but he's not an idiot to. To protect the money.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, and in the setup of the shotguns, the scattered things under each teller's window, he's home alone.

[Griffin Newman]

His whole.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Ben Hosley]

Are other tellers there? That's the other thing I was thinking about a thousand. Is he the only one? Like, I mean, but it, it is built up like this is a. This is a thoroughfare. Like people are coming in and out.

[Griffin Newman]

It makes you ask a bunch of questions about who this guy is in a good Cohen way where you're like any one scene. Character. Character you wish you could learn about their entire life. And a lot of that's in casting. But also the details of like, what made him pick this place. Has he ever had other employees?

[Ben Hosley]

Well, like, I guess I was wondering in this whole thing how much the Cohen's talk to their actors about what they want. Because that's also a very big.

[David Sims]

Oh, he's here. Like not that much.

[Ben Hosley]

See that's. And that's like Clint Eastwood. I talked to one person who was in Unforgiven and he was like, he's like, I went to Clinton. Clinton. I was like Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman said. And he. And he was like, I went to him, I was like, I want to do this, I want to do that. And he goes, no, no, no, you're the actor, right? You do that, don't you?

[David Sims]

Tell me about it.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. And I was like, so interesting. And I wondered if they were like this because it's a great choice. He plays it. I mean they're playing very different energies and, and you could play that, that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Degree of freedom on a Clint Eastwood movie. To have that degree of freedom and know that you're only going to get one. One take. Cuz he's famous for only doing one, maybe two takes. That's crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I, I feel what we going.

[David Sims]

To do at the same time. I just had an intimate dinner with Bradley Cooper and by. Well, well, well, by intimate dinner, I mean like me and 20 other people at a dinner for his new movie with him and Will Arnett and what.

[Ben Hosley]

You guys had eat.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait a second, is this thing on?

[David Sims]

It was on. This thing was on. And Bradley of course did depart before dinner was over to pick up his daughter from Russian class, which I was like, course, okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I chatted to Bradley Cooper for a bit and all I wanted to ask him about was Clint Eastwood because of course I'm obsessed with cle. And that was what I was asking about. And I was sort of like, is it like, is, is it as intense as you imagine? And he was like, not at all. No, no, no. He was like, he's like jazz, baby. He's just walking around, he's like, why don't you try this? It's all very flowy and smooth and like. And he was like. And there were a couple times we screwed something up.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, interesting.

[David Sims]

And like it was okay. Like nobody was like it or something. Right? Where it's like, yeah, no, we can relight it. We can. You know, it's like it wasn't quite as severe as you imagine is how he was putting it to me. Obviously he's Bradley Cooper. He probably has a little more, you know, weight to throw.

[Ben Hosley]

But I think that's also like, I think the misnomer is if you got it, you got it and you move on. And I think that that's the difference.

[David Sims]

This whole thing is, is also it's just like, I think the more you do it, the more you get away from it. Like, that's Clint's, like, philosophy. That's what you hear.

[Ben Hosley]

By the way, I was just double checking the person that I talked to about Clint Eastwood, Saul Rubinick.

[David Sims]

And he's so good in them.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. And then so I just, like. I think it is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And. But that idea being like, they. It's like. Like Alfred Hitchcock would talk about. Like, he's like, oh, I've already done the hard part before I get to set.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the coins are closer to that from what I have heard, without being.

[David Sims]

Because they prepare so meticulously for all.

[Griffin Newman]

The visual stuff that Hitchcock was almost like dismissive of actors.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Hitchcock is the kind of like, he's moving dolls around.

[David Sims]

They're my little playmobile figure.

[Griffin Newman]

Commitment to his perfect creative vision. I think Eastwood is. I hired you. I trust you. Do whatever you want. I expect you to be a professional. But then it's your. This is your space.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm not gonna pull this out of you.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And the problem is when. When people are great in Eastwood movies, when he's cast them perfectly, they kill it. And you see people who are sort of like stranded at sea and you know that he wasn't giving them any help. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, and I think that you can also say that for Soderbergh is like that too. Sometimes. I think Soderbergh moves very, very quickly. And sometimes people can really be like, pop in a slightly.

[Griffin Newman]

Not, like, tending to me. The thing I've always heard about the Cohen's is that they just don't want to get into the psychology of it. It's very objective based, but they know what they want. They love collaboration.

[David Sims]

If I go up to them and I'm like, and why am I robbing this bank? They would be like, that's not.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, because you need the money. Like, that's.

[Jason Manzoukas]

They would say, you know, that very Mamet. That's very, like, just say the lines.

[Griffin Newman]

They won't let you fuck up. Like, they won't let you drop, drown. And they will take the time to get it right.

[Ben Hosley]

And that's the difference. It's like, there's not. There are very few bad performance, if any, in.

[Griffin Newman]

Not really.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, well, that's a triumph of casting. And their scripts are incredible. I was at. I heard Rogan, right?

[David Sims]

Lebowski.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I was at that reading of Lebowski. No, I was in the audience. And what blew my mind when Watching it, because I know that movie so well. Was how much of the ums and us. How much of the. The. The unique speech patterns for everybody were in the writing. They weren't. The actors hadn't brought that cadence or those things to it. It was all there. That blew me away.

[Griffin Newman]

If you build up the career like this, you start to enter a magical phase that I think is very similar to Wes Anderson right now, where it's like, everyone knows what the tone of her performance is in one of your movies, what they like out of of actors, how the language should sound. It's also easy to do the work.

[David Sims]

Security is like, I know you do a good job, like if you're on.

[Griffin Newman]

A Wes Anderson set or whatever, but you also don't. The script is written so specifically and the like, proof of concept exists out there. And you go, I think I can figure out what they want and come correct.

[Ben Hosley]

And I think the interesting difference with Wes Anderson. And maybe I'm making a generalization here, but he really does go, I'm gonna work with the same people, because I don't even want the to. I mean, there are new people every now and then, but it's like. It feels like I. These people will deliver this thing. Whereas the Cohen feel like they are. There's a stable. But they are bringing in new people and you're. And they're killing it. Like, I feel. You know, it's like they don't. They seem that they want to meet new talent.

[Griffin Newman]

Well. And there's a greater variety in their tones. They will switch within a couple different modes within versus Wes Anderson making very different films that all have a very similar. Similar sensibility.

[David Sims]

So you see this film, you've watched the first two segments, and I feel like you're like, okay, I get it. This is Coen brothers Western. Like little nuggets being thrown at me. And then you watch Meal Ticket because I feel like Meal Ticket has to be the third where it's like a little bit of a. Like, halt. This is not quite. It's not all going to be bandits and Indians and cowboys and banks and. Right. Like, Meal Ticket is a crazy.

[Ben Hosley]

Me was my favorite the first time I saw it. Meal Ticket was my favorite because it was so. It's. It's so affecting. And it. I think it even hits harder after the first two. Like, you're like, oh, like the. The scene where he is having sex with, like, the prostitute and that. And he's just looking down the barrel of the camera like, oh, my God, it's just like turned him away.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Henry Melling.

[Ben Hosley]

Is that his name?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Harry Melling. I'm so sorry.

[David Sims]

He said this completely transformed his career.

[Griffin Newman]

Obviously, he's Dudley Dursley reclamation.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Serious actor.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Absolutely incredible. Because the vast majority of this piece is only him reciting all of these incredible monologues without the use of most.

[Griffin Newman]

Of his body, without his extremities, and.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It is just on him. And there is no dialogue until almost the end, you know, and that, I mean, ancillary dialogue, any dialogue between him.

[Griffin Newman]

And Liam says like a character combined. 40 words in this thing, maximum. And I feel like Harry Melling does not have a single line.

[David Sims]

He doesn't communicate unless he's doing the podcast.

[Ben Hosley]

He is like, he is. He is the chicken.

[David Sims]

Right, Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, I mean, he is not a human. And. And, and that is so. And that's so interesting to me.

[David Sims]

It's like this is about podcasts having to pivot to video. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

That's what it's about.

[David Sims]

That's what the chicken is.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It is, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The comedic concept that one. One time is an occurrence, two times it's coincidence, three times it's a pattern. Right. It's. This is to your point, David, where they're starting to train you to understand, oh, there is a through line. All of these stories are going to come back to the same notion of how we negotiate death. Right. And that Franco is this guy who, in my opinion, my reading is he thinks he's above it. He starts to think that he's magical, that nothing can get to him. Right.

[David Sims]

Maybe I'm invincible.

[Griffin Newman]

And he has this final moment where he looks at the young girl in the crowd and he's not even concerned about the noose around his neck.

[Jason Manzoukas]

There's a pretty girl.

[Griffin Newman]

Because he's basically as James Franco was want to do, when he sees a young woman in a crowd, he's basically thinking, like, oh, it'd be great when I go flirt with that woman in like half an hour when I'm down.

[David Sims]

From here, I'm going to the net, the noose will break and I'll make a run for.

[Griffin Newman]

Not like imagining wouldn't be great if I was there with her. He's thinking, I will be there.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, he's there to say death is inescapable. And if you think you got away with it, you didn't.

[Griffin Newman]

So watching that segment, you don't really know what it's about. And the second it ends with his death and then like, hard out, that's where they're teaching you. Oh, this is going to come for everyone in this segment in some way or another.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, then what is the difference that you see between the first and second, like, approach to death? Because obviously Bucks Buster Scruggs feels invincible.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

He feels like death is never going to come for him.

[Griffin Newman]

He is never thinking about.

[Ben Hosley]

No, he is a showman and he is, you know, almost showboating around it, and that's what gets him killed. Then the second one, it's like, I guess maybe the difference is that the first person feels like he's unkillable. The second one feels like he can escape death.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And the third one is. It's inevitable.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, and the third one, you're watching it and you're like, what does this have to do with the other two outside of, like, the, the brutality of this time?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right. I think there's something about how in the fir in each of the first two, you could argue death is coming for them because they are engaged in life and death events. They are. They are seeking out or are part of things that lead to people's deaths. Melling is a true innocent. He seemingly is a power innocent. So it even comes for the innocent.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

The.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The cruelty of this world is that even the innocent, even the, the artists, even the soft are going to be.

[Ben Hosley]

Melling is movie theaters and the chicken is.

[David Sims]

And that is. That is true. And Sarandos does have the chicken in his mean.

[Griffin Newman]

My reading is, is that this is.

[David Sims]

No, no, I have a reading too, but what's your reading?

[Griffin Newman]

That this is them commenting on the kind of level of disdain that show business has for the creator.

[Ben Hosley]

I agree.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Of that 100. They view them as freaks and their job is to, like, build an industry around their bizarre and also grab the next thing.

[Ben Hosley]

That they grab the next thing. There's no loyalty to the thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Second, you don't have an audience.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You are garbage to me.

[David Sims]

But Neeson is sympathetic, partly because Italian niece is a great actor. Like, but he could do so much with his face or whatever. But, like, he does feel bad.

[Griffin Newman]

But to my point, tosses someone in the river. And to what you were saying, right. Of like, he seems safe. This is not a guy who exists in a world of danger. Right. He has been rescued. One of the few full lines that Nissan has is when he's going to the can, the crowd with the can collecting money, and he's patting himself on the back for like, isn't it such a sad story? Look at him. I found him in the street like this norms and Legs, I see. Saved him. Like he's giving himself the honor of. Look at me. The hero who discovered the nobility of this man with a poet's heart and the ability to speak to the masses.

[Ben Hosley]

But that's a studio head.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally. And then the second he stops drawing a crowd, it's like, this guy's garbage.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, yes, it's somebody who used to care about putting art out and is now concerned with.

[Griffin Newman]

He wants the prestige of standing next.

[David Sims]

To beyond everyone's studios takes. And you guys definitely are not annoyed at Hollywood at all, in any way.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Everything in Hollywood is going according to plan.

[David Sims]

A plus A. Okay?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Our careers are going perfectly exactly how we thought they would play out.

[David Sims]

It's also like in these, these ideas of the west is this like, you know, the, you know, white American European culture is encroaching on this, like, wild land, right? Where they're like, listen, gathered, you know, peasants, you know, to the Shakespeare and the Percy. But, you know, and like, I love those reaction shots of like the old people going just like, they don't know what he's saying. Right? Like, it's just. But these, like, words are so interesting and like, you know, then there's the brutality. Like. Yeah, but at the end of the day, they're going to like the chicken more. So, like, you know, there's only so.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Much Brian Cox and the actors all came to Deadwood.

[David Sims]

Yes, I do.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I love that sequence of episodes.

[David Sims]

It is amazing because you're watching Deadwood knowing season three is the last season. David Milch doesn't know that or whatever, you know, like, and, and, you know, like, with about four episodes to go, suddenly it's about Brian Cox, like, ordering ham and you're like, this is one episode, right? And it's like, no, this is like three anyway.

[Ben Hosley]

But I, but I, I guess maybe in a broader sense it's just about how new takes over, like a mom and pop. A mom and pop store gets taken over by a target. Right? Like, I mean, and it's. And it's about culture evolving. Somebody figures out, oh, this is a, a simpler way, it's a easier way.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Being replaced by reality TV. And that's why we went on strike.

[Ben Hosley]

In 2006 and we got everything we needed. But I mean, but I do think that, like, yes, we are looking at it through the lens of, like, directors and actors, but I also think that that is how society runs to. The newer, flashier thing will always overtake.

[Griffin Newman]

I think there are a couple other things going on. I mean, we, you know, you were saying that they went to Netflix and they went to Annapurna because they said, what studio is going to green light this? But you look at some of the quotes they have from talking about setting up this film and beyond, like, well, we're doing something weird and unconventional, so we have to go to an unconventional place. They were already saying, it does feel like a kind of grown up movie has died. It does feel like the industry has shifted. It does feel like it's harder to sell anything that isn't Marvel. And these are guys who have been able to do.

[David Sims]

They've been doing that for 30 years.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly what they want for decades. And even while still getting things made, they're like, we can feel it moving. We can feel it moving past us. Maybe we're hairy melling and the crowd starting to thin out. We've not been thrown over the bridge yet, but you can see it going down. And it's always going to come to the brass tax of does it cost less to feed a chicken than a guy? Right? Like, that's what's so brutal about this segment is you really see that the calculation in Liam Neeson's mind is like, I gotta feed him with the spoon. I gotta think about his feelings.

[David Sims]

Just throw some corn.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I gotta make him hold. I gotta hold him while he shits and pisses, right?

[Griffin Newman]

It's the bag of feet is the thing that changes him for him, where he's just like, it's just this.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, I think the image of from behind him with the birdcage, looking out into the thing, it's like, it's, it's just, it's an easier, it's an easier life. And it's, it's a. And it. That's. He's living a hard life. Everyone gets trying to survive that opening is just like, I'm putting down the thing, I'm putting down the hat. I'm doing this other thing. It just seems so hard. But I also wonder, and I don't know if I have an answer for this, why was that guy so willing to sell a chicken? Like, like, you know, sure.

[David Sims]

Is this chicken gonna dine a year? I mean, it's a chicken, right?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like, yeah. It always felt to me like the chicken is a scam.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

You know, it does feel like, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

This chicken can't actually do that Nissan, like wildly overpaid. That Nissan basically put his life saving. Because there is a part of, There's.

[Jason Manzoukas]

A get rich quick scheme.

[Ben Hosley]

There's a part of me and I think I Wanted this moment is like that guy had. I mean, this is a. This is a full invention that. That guy had a little man underneath that cart to do the man.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's not selling him.

[Ben Hosley]

And he's not selling the man. He's telling him, cuz that's the scam.

[David Sims]

Or he came with plants. Audience plants. Whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

I think, I think the chicken isn't as much of a golden goose as he thinks it is chicken. It's.

[David Sims]

It's not a goose.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, I'm sorry.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

The chicken's kind of a canard.

[Ben Hosley]

As a kid. My. I grew up in New York and.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That is French for doc.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, but wait a second. Let me try.

[Ben Hosley]

As a kid, I went with my dad to Chinatown all the time. And I saw this. This is what I saw.

[Griffin Newman]

We.

[Ben Hosley]

It was the most exciting, fun thing to ever see. It was so cool. It was like a chicken that could do math. And they had a game, a tic tac toe game where you would play against a chicken. It was like. It was like a battery powered game. And it was like. And it was like. It was great.

[David Sims]

Right? And obviously there was Letterman stuff. Super Petrick.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I think quite possibly the answer.

[Ben Hosley]

Is, should have been Letterman taking his cabin boy character. Now that's a Universal.

[David Sims]

Letterman would have crushed in Buster Scrugs. They could have tossed him in there.

[Ben Hosley]

I. I think Letterman in that section might have been fantastic.

[Griffin Newman]

Buy a monkey. His cabin boy character would fit perfectly in this film. I think part of what's going on, even if it's not like a little man, it's in the building of the Carter. It's in the way he trains the chicken. I think this guy Liam Neeson's coming up to him, offering to pay more and more money, and he's like, the chicken's not the thing. There's some secret that he's not selling to Liam Neeson. And even if he is telling him the secret, he's like, I can replace the chicken.

[Ben Hosley]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

The chicken's not the thing. If I want to still do the chicken act.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

You go to a farm. I get it.

[Ben Hosley]

He didn't sell him the cart, right? So. And the cart. I mean, it. I guess it's buyer beware too. I mean, but. I guess. But you don't see the buyer beware part. You just see the. The shiny new.

[Griffin Newman]

You just see how quickly he makes the.

[David Sims]

You also don't see him kill Harry Melling. You just infer.

[Ben Hosley]

But that drop that, that sound effect. That Pluto is brutal. It's tough.

[Griffin Newman]

And I also, I think to what you were saying, David, there's this notion of, oh, my God, they're bringing high art to the people, right? Here's a sophisticated show and this audience sits wrapped. Attention, attention, you know, giving him ultimate respect and then applauding. But the subtext is they're here to see the freak, right? Like, the fact that he's such a good dramatic orator is the party trick. It's no different than a chicken being able to do math. The actual thing that's interesting is the creature on stage, right? And that's just the dressing on top of it. And the second, like, the material isn't working, right? The novelty of the guy is out the window, and the guy has no value.

[Ben Hosley]

But I also. But I think, I would argue, argue that what's interesting is I may not have understood what that guy said, and I may not have even gotten the point, but it left me thinking. And that was interesting, and that was cool. And maybe part of that is the body, but the other thing is irrefutable. I saw an animal do math, right? I know what I saw.

[David Sims]

And that A to B, it's like.

[Ben Hosley]

I can tell you what I saw where the other one is like, quicker dopamine. I felt something. I don't know how I felt about it, and I can't tell you. It's. It is. It's art. It's a difference of art. And, yeah, it's also the difference that.

[Griffin Newman]

This isn't being framed as, like, a sideshow act, right? Like, there are guys like Johnny Eck, who's in, Like Freaks, who was the famous half man who lacked a lower body, right?

[Ben Hosley]

He's not showing off his. He's showing off his acting skills.

[Griffin Newman]

There were so many successful performers of this time who were born with, like, different, like, physical issues, right? Who then made their act. Watch me roll a cigarette with my teeth. You know, watch me do this without legs. And he's not doing that. The fact that he is armless and legless is irrelevant to the material of what he's doing. And yet the harsh reality is they would not be bothering to pay attention to you if you didn't look like this.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, yeah, And I also feel like they make a really cool choice of not making him, like, the minute he gets off stage going, hey, you know.

[David Sims]

It'S like, yeah, you don't do the baby, right?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, you don't. You just don't hear him.

[Griffin Newman]

He doesn't know.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But you couldn't talk a parent who.

[David Sims]

Like, you put the. Over the.

[Ben Hosley]

But you see his face and you know that that's why I think the emotion is. It's why.

[David Sims]

It's why that guy Harry Melling is in a lot of stuff. Like, looking at his face, you're just.

[Griffin Newman]

There was a sadness to his existence and his inability to connect. And when he is on stage, he feels like a person. He is speaking some truth for him. And the idea that people are paying attention to it makes him feel like he is valid.

[Ben Hosley]

And I actually think, to your point, they might come because he has no. You know, he has this odd body, but that goes out the window.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Once it starts. And I think that that's actually a really beautiful thing too. It's like, oh, I'm just caught up in.

[David Sims]

Yeah, they do. They are moved by him.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also such a funny use of Neeson, who they have never worked with before.

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And it's just like stripping down everything about Liam Neeson as a movie star culturally, which especially in the late 2010hens, is like, now you've had this whole, like, Euro thriller.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's like you're taking away that you're taking away, like, dramatic actor Oscar Schindler. You're just like, this guy looks really strange and has a very intense voice. Liam Neeson is just a physical presence and a vocal presence. That is one of one. And what if you put that in an entirely different context and you're just like, there's a lot going on in this guy.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, it's also. He does not. And in a way that Liam Neeson could feel so imposing and so threatening, and he doesn't.

[Griffin Newman]

He feels small.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And even when he's measuring the. The depth of the water with the rock, you don't feel like there is cruelty or malice.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You feel like he is sad. He is. He communicates sad that he.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He's doing an incredible job.

[Griffin Newman]

And he thinks it's a mercy killing. Like, that's part of the tragedy and like the brutality of this movie, you know, in. In his exploration of death as a character concept is that he's doing the math of if he can't bring an audience anymore, then he should be dead. Right. And it's not as a. As a judgment. It speaks to, to a certain extent that he has always viewed him as a little less than human, but he thinks it is an act of sympathy. I'll put you out of your suffering.

[Ben Hosley]

I also think that what I get, I go back to the opening I think the openings of all these are really interesting because you open with putting on the thing. Put. You know, he's setting up the. Like, it's hard. And it's like. It's like he is a. Yes. He's in show business, but he's doing manual labor. Like, he. And this is. He is, I think, beaten down by. It's every night a different town, everything. It's like. And he's doing actually more work to.

[Jason Manzoukas]

To put on the podcast.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, to put.

[Griffin Newman]

He's setting up the cameras. He's editing clips. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

And it's like. And it's. It like. And it's. And wouldn't it be easier? Wouldn't it just my life be better? And it's like. And I think that that's what you see. Like, you're not seeing him on the day that he found him. You're not seeing him on the. Like, this is what, seven years in. Whatever it is. It's like. And you feel those years. It's just never going to change. It's never getting better. And his life is empty and alone. And it's. I don't know. I think it's a very. Like, they're both sympathetic characters.

[Griffin Newman]

And I also love that it's not like packed house and then one night it's empty and he goes for the chicken. That you see a real kind of durational. The crowd tapering off and they're not coming back. And you see like four or five performances that are all losing energy. Right. This guy's like, sticking it out.

[David Sims]

Alco Canyon is the next one.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. It's based to talk about that one on a Jack London story.

[David Sims]

It is.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't.

[David Sims]

I don't know much about it apart from that. It's a Jack London story.

[Ben Hosley]

Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

That's.

[Ben Hosley]

Sorry one.

[David Sims]

Which is Jack London's the guy who wrote White Fang and all that. All those adventures.

[Ben Hosley]

This is like a silent short. This is as close to a silent short as I think you can get.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, they're two great words that get repeated.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Mr. Pocket.

[David Sims]

But also does have the Tim Robinson thing. Not to keep it of. Like, it's so beautiful. It's so quiet. And then when he gets shot, he's like, you mother, you suck. Yeah. Why you do that?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, you shot me in the back.

[David Sims]

I did all this work. Like, he's just saying. We're like, we know. We know. We watch you do it. You know? But he's like, it really suck. You shot me in the back.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, also, this Is like the most innately hit.

[David Sims]

Nothing important. H. Ben, you want.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Went right through hit. Nothing but guts.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I think Tom Waits is perfect.

[David Sims]

Agreed.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

He's perfect.

[Griffin Newman]

I I another guy you. How has he never worked with.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I was going to say, how has he never been in a Coen Brothers.

[David Sims]

Were they writing it? I think. I wonder, like, thinking of him the entire time. Yeah, I would love to know.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Especially even just the choice of the song to kick off the segment feels so just part of his repertoire and that it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That it bookends as he is leaving through the exact same way that he came. He's singing the same song again, which I thought was beautiful.

[David Sims]

Now, this is their first only shot on digital. I didn't mention this.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And after Roger Deacon said he would never shoot on digital. Right.

[David Sims]

Well, it's not Deacons. It's Bruno Del.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, interesting. I didn't notice that.

[David Sims]

I do feel like this is like, obviously the most, like, them being, like, the magnetic magnificence, right. Like, you know, it's so beautiful and.

[Griffin Newman]

Lush, the crystal clarity of.

[David Sims]

Right. The animals and all that, right? And like, they're messing with the style in each segment. And this is the, like, the true. Just like the majesty of the west. And it's like. But of course, at the end of the day, it's a weird little Santa Claus just trying to dig rocks out of the ground.

[Ben Hosley]

Do you think that there's a connection between, like, giving a voice to the legless guy from the last, you know, like, in this one, because it's sort of like he is killed for. You know, he's like, he's shot in the back. Like, there's that thing, like, you, like, how could you do this? Like, it's you. You hear the voice of the aggrieved in that moment, and I feel like you don't get to hear that in the one before Skunk.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, this is the great thing about the segment, is that he doesn't die. That after watching the one optimistic in a row, right? You're like, I get it. All of these are people marching towards their inevitable, inevitable death. And because of the tension that is built from just how methodical it is, how slow it is, the process of the finding it, the thing with the owl, which starts to feel supernatural, you know, or at least kind of like spiritual in a way, you're just like, how's this guy gonna get it? But you're watching it and you like this guy so much.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And he's working the egg with the fish hard, right?

[David Sims]

And he Only takes one egg.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, right.

[David Sims]

He can get greedy, but he's like, I'll just take one.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

He's like, how. How much can the owl count?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

This thing feels so lush and romantic, frantic. And he is so sympathetic that you're just like, oh, Jesus Christ.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And he's good at it.

[Griffin Newman]

When's the ax gonna fall on his head? And I hate it. And there's this tension.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I love the process of digging each exploratory hole. Oh, less, less, less. Oh, let me go the other way. More, more, more. Now let's let. Okay. Is somewhere up here and the counting.

[Griffin Newman]

Of the like 3 it actually spot forward.

[Ben Hosley]

It reminded me in many ways of the opening of There Will Be Blood in the sense that of like methodical there. And you know, obviously that character goes downhill but it's like but you know, with rich but becoming rich. But this character, I feel like he will not stop shooting, will not stop. Like he will get his thing. And that's a. That's the same thing when he breaks his leg in the opening of the everybody how long was that challenge for how far was that?

[Griffin Newman]

But for that you're like, this is what makes a man evil. Like this is the death of his soul. This is a guy who perhaps had no morality to begin with. And then he's forged in the darkness of the this like pit to come out and do whatever he needs to survive. And then versus this story which is like what if you start with like an old Walter Brennan style coot who's usually just the butt of the joke and the character who maybe gets a little moment of like more emotion. But if you really got to live with this guy and his process, it's hard not to start caring about him, especially as something of an innocent. Versus these other stories working so hard, working so hard. And you're like God, what a waste when someone's going to come and steal all his in gold. You know, that's what's going to happen.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And this I thought it was crazy when he's digging those holes and he keeps finding jeans.

[David Sims]

These are even more valuable than the gold worth thousands.

[Griffin Newman]

Congratulations. Y O U David. Yes. I'm unlike most people.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

You know why. 1 of 1 Do you know why?

[David Sims]

Why?

[Griffin Newman]

There are many reasons. But here's one.

[David Sims]

What's that?

[Griffin Newman]

Murray?

[Ben Hosley]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

Murray. That's what I named one of my financial accounts. And see, most people can't name all of their financial accounts, but I've named all of them. One of them is named Murray. One of them is named Tiffany. One of them is named Rebecca.

[David Sims]

See guys, sometimes Griff will look at the ad copy and he will just sort of UCB style kind of be like, what can I make with these words?

[Griffin Newman]

This is a damning accusation. Sometimes Griffin will look at the ad copy. Yeah, yeah, listen, most people can't name all of their financial accounts or what they're.

[David Sims]

I like, right? If you asked me like, hey, can you just get everything like financial that you have in front of you? I would be like, absolutely not. I have no way of organizing this.

[Griffin Newman]

And some of us kind of think A to C and they look at a 401k and they say that looks like a Murray to me.

[David Sims]

So you can feel organized and confident in your finances with Monarch, an all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or your phone. Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

Because the lack of awareness can lead to money being left on the table and that's a terrible place for money to be.

[David Sims]

Money should be in your pocket or in the pocket hands of good business.

[Griffin Newman]

Underneath a mattress in a boot.

[David Sims]

Right now for our listeners, Monarch is offering 50% off your first year with code check monarch.com so like if you organize everything with Monarch, right, All your sort of statements or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You might see some inefficient investment allocation.

[Griffin Newman]

Hate it when that happens.

[David Sims]

You might Discover a forgotten 401k from a past job. That can happen, right? Put a little bit of money into something and then you forgot it existed. You'll realize how much they were worth. You understand how much cash you're sitting on being, not being used.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's, it's stressful, time consuming, juggling multiple apps. Monarch just makes it all in one.

[David Sims]

It's built for people with busy lives. Monarch is for you. If you need anything to do all the heavy lifting for you, link all your accounts in minutes. Get clear data, visuals, smart categorization of your spending, real control over your money, all that stuff. It's a great way to organize all your, your finances and maybe look at that with your partner or your financial advisor. I find it very helpful to give a clear view of your financial health.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, it would mean a lot to us if you signed up for Monarch, but more than anything would mean a lot to Murray. A 401k plan.

[David Sims]

So don't. Yeah, think of Murray.

[Griffin Newman]

Think of Murray.

[David Sims]

Don't let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use code checkonarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with Code Check.

[Griffin Newman]

Do it for Murray. Chatter, chatter, chatter, chatter, chatter.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's cold out there.

[David Sims]

It is for real.

[Griffin Newman]

There's truth in comedy. It is currently very cold outside. New York has taken a steep drop off into the chilly winter months. In November.

[David Sims]

It's, it's, it's a cold day in Brooklyn. You know, it may be cold tomorrow. Who knows?

[Griffin Newman]

This is the kind of day you wake up in the morning and you go, I'm underdressed. Do I have the staples I need in my closet to brace myself for the outdoors? And when you got cold mornings and holiday plans, this is when I just want my wardrobe to be simple, David. Stuff that looks sharp, feels good, and things I'll actually wear. I don't like buying clothes that I won't wear. Give me things I'll actually wear.

[David Sims]

Yes, absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

For me, that's quince.

[David Sims]

Quince is so good. Oh, I gotta open up quince. Every time we do the quince ad read, I'm excited. Might need to get a couple things from Quince.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, the bonus for quince is that quince pieces make great gifts too. So you can buy a little for yourself, you can buy a little for the people you love in your life. And this season's lineup is simple, but smart and sexy.

[David Sims]

I have. Exactly. I might have to get one of these 50 Mongolian Cat Cashmere sweaters that feel like an everyday luxury. A wool coat that's equal parts stylish and durable, like Channing Tatum.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's what I like about their Mongolian cashmere crewneck sweaters.

[David Sims]

You feel like you could throw that guy against a wall, you'd be all right.

[Griffin Newman]

Remind me a lot of Channing Tatum. Right? I love a nice soft sweater, but I hate some of the prices these other places charge. And also some of these sweaters are too thick. You and I both run hot, David, despite us having very, very different bodies, we both run hot. I want the extra layer, but I don't want one that's going to get me caked in sweat. And. And what about the bottom half? Your body? You're not going to go commando. You're not going to Yogi Bear it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's not my vibe.

[Griffin Newman]

That's not my vibe either. Their denim nails, the fit and everyday comfort, all at a fraction of what you'd expect to pay. Because by partnering directly with ethical factories and top artisans, much like Channing Tatum does, Quince cuts out the middlemen to deliver premium, premium quality at half the cost of other high end brands. So you can give luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag. What are you seeing on their site now, David, as you're scanning for new.

[David Sims]

Those Mongolian cashmere sweaters sound good to me. I don't know, let's see. I kind of need a jacket or something. I'm not checking out like a puffer jacket.

[Griffin Newman]

What about a responsible down hooded parka? I like the word responsibles in there.

[David Sims]

I leave my clothing to be, to really just sort of, you know, take care of itself.

[Griffin Newman]

Be responsible like Channing Tatum. He keeps his budgets generally at a pretty good level. He's producing his films with Reed Carolyn and he's responsible. I like the look of the pro tech golf pants. I like a nice slack. I like a like a nice low key slack.

[David Sims]

Give and get. Timeless holiday staples that last this season with Quince. Go to quince.com check for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, Canada.

[David Sims]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com check free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com check. Go Blue Jays.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, I don't know.

[David Sims]

I mean I don't know what to say about this one except that it's just truly delightful and I think it's like.

[Ben Hosley]

But I think this is what the benefit, the beauty of this movie is. There are some that are very slight and I think that they, they do something that's interesting. It's like Walter Brennan. Here's a twist on Walter Brennan. Here's a very simple, you know what we. A subverting of expectation in two ways. Character and your ending. And then boom. And we're fine and we just move on. It's like the James Franco one.

[David Sims]

It's like the Franco one's similar. It's like, right. What if you did like a current Snow Creek Bridge but without the twist?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I think the other thing going on in this short is him putting back two of the three eggs. Right?

[David Sims]

Yes. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

In the words of our great American poet Seth MacFarlane, there are a million ways to die in the West.

[David Sims]

Right? Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And as much as there is, yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

True Liam Neeson in that as well.

[David Sims]

But it's also kind of in the words of one of our great Na' Vi poets, Neytiri, kind of educating Sully on like only take what you need.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You know what I mean? Exactly.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Don't iron Ash.

[Griffin Newman]

We'll see that because of the way they filmed the owl, right? You're like, oh, this is going to be a story about a man who is cursed for his grandmother, greed.

[David Sims]

Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

That the owl is going to place some kind of curse upon him. But these are, like, people trying to survive. They make terrible decisions, uncharismatic decisions. But it's part of the danger and the lawlessness of this time that you get the sense, if he had grabbed three eggs because he. Why not? I'm hungry. The owl would have, like, spited him and smited him.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But the. The generosity of. I get it. You just need to survive. As long as you're only eating one of my babies, well, then I'm looking out for you.

[Ben Hosley]

And I think that there's also a lot of that, like, that care. Like, it's the same thing that happens with Franco with the Native American, like, on the horse. Like, it comes up to me, like, there's. There is sympathy or there is moments of connection. Connection. Right. For life.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And also, this is the guy who's, like, in touch with nature, in touch with the land, in touch with the world, you know, it, like, has some inner sense of joy. And the owl's like, as long as you're not taking more than you need, I accept that this is just the give and take of life.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then it feels like that is almost supernaturally what makes the bullet go through him, which allows him to, like, get.

[Ben Hosley]

You know, and everybody who dies so far is taking liberties. Right. Like our first character. Everyone is taking a little bit more than they need to if it's talking to the camera. And the first. First one, if it's, you know, commit. Like, it's like they're not learning their lesson. They are continually, well, what else can I get?

[Griffin Newman]

And the joy he gets from killing this young guy in revenge is, as you're saying, David, like, a principled. Like, I worked this hard, and you're just going to take it from me. Like, that's not how this works.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Just him seeing the movement, the shadow movement on the ground in front of him on the hole, and knowing there's someone there and he's shot before he even. Even looks is great.

[Ben Hosley]

I love that image, too, how his shirt gets more bloody, too, like, when you're above it. It's a beautiful shot.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm old, but you're older, and you're.

[Griffin Newman]

Just so happy when he, like, rides off singing, and you're like, oh, my God, he makes it out of this alive.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

He doesn't ride off.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

He drags his donkey.

[Griffin Newman]

I almost.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I just love that Detail, too, about the character.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Again, it's another. Like, I'm not leaving anything behind. It's like, you know, it's like, it's. It.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm thoughtful.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He's committed to doing it the old way. Audio, video.

[Ben Hosley]

Exactly.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No video, just audio. Like the medium was intended.

[Griffin Newman]

Now we've broken the pattern. Right. So it's like this is the first segment in which arguably our central character doesn't die at the end.

[Ben Hosley]

Right, Right.

[Griffin Newman]

So then when you enter the Zoe Kazan segment, get ready for a hammer blow. But, but.

[David Sims]

But maybe you don't know that.

[Griffin Newman]

That, for me, is like, the value of this and why it does need to be longer. Because it's like with your whole. Even like your internal rhythm, rhythms of like. This one feels like it's going deeper than the other one.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I also misremembered this one too, as I was watching, because I thought that I remembered her brother dying. And then I was like, then. And the guy, the wagon train guy falling in love with her. And I had remembered it as him dying as well. And that everybody around her starts to fall. And it wasn't that. And I was once again, like, heartbroken.

[Griffin Newman]

At the end of the end. Heck, he is so good in this.

[David Sims]

He is. He's fantastic.

[Griffin Newman]

But no, you end with the final shot of just seeing. What's his name? Mr. Andrews.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Writing off. What am I gonna do, Mr. Arthur?

[Jason Manzoukas]

What am I gonna tell Bill Knapp? Right. What the. What the line says.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I. I just think it's so good in the way, like, the movie has trained you to feel like you understand how these stories are gonna go. And then this up ends it by being like, these are the most human characters you have seen. Seen yet. We're really investing in their emotional dynamic. There is like a sensitivity and a subtlety and a presence to this. It is the least showy cinematically. It feels like when they are in conversation, it is like sustained shot, reverse shot, mediums where he is like, they are letting the actors control the scenes.

[Ben Hosley]

I will also say that these last two pieces are heavily dialogue driven. Right. And it.

[David Sims]

Right, right. Versus maybe the tranquility of the fourth one.

[Ben Hosley]

And, you know, like all. I mean, throughout. I mean, throughout. They're.

[David Sims]

They're.

[Ben Hosley]

They're very like.

[David Sims]

I mean.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. And like, while that performer is doing these monologues, it's not like. It's not inter. It's not a.

[Griffin Newman]

Characters aren't talking.

[Ben Hosley]

Talking to each other. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's like their monologues happening. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And I feel like that opening sequence is something like. It felt like out of a serious man or something.

[Griffin Newman]

Like it's the dinner table quick.

[Ben Hosley]

And it's. And it's this fight and you're in the. And it's like, oh, wow. They really like that. I love that opening. I'm like, well, what is this?

[Jason Manzoukas]

But it's also so weird. There's like, they're doing all the western stuff, but you're like, oh, wait, is this Johnny Guitar? Is this like a really strange lens?

[Griffin Newman]

You're like, there's a wagon train. There's this notion of an arranged marriage. There's the future out west.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like, what is this trustworthy brother?

[Griffin Newman]

The.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You know, what's it. You know?

[Ben Hosley]

And who is going to screw over who means lying. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a sort of sense of misdirect of you're trying to get ahead of them and go like, what is this segment? And it takes so long to reveal itself. And because Tom Waits walks off scot free and because the brother dies early in this. Even if you've accepted these are all about death, you go, maybe it's about grieving.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And maybe it's about living in the wake of a death of someone close. You are lulled into a sense of security, of this is not going to just be a tragic rug pull of this romance.

[Ben Hosley]

How death can maybe actually create new life. Because that's what you're kind of of seeing is like, we're going to get married. We're going to stay here for the homestead act. We're going to. And it will be. We'll actually build something better than even going to the. The other.

[David Sims]

The.

[Ben Hosley]

The new frontier going on longer.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's living more with these characters. It grows past feeling like a sketch. Right. It starts to feel like they're asking me to invest real emotional weight into this. So clearly they wouldn't bite my hand.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I lose bite your hand. Speaking of, like one of my favorite things in this one. One is how disliked by everyone. The dog is like that. How to go against the grain of everything else, which is the dog is the villain. You know, like that she even is like, that's not my dog.

[Griffin Newman]

You could.

[Jason Manzoukas]

If everybody's mad at the dog, it's not me.

[Griffin Newman]

You could argue in a long tail way. The dog is the most responsible for her death.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

She doesn't go off if the dog doesn't.

[Ben Hosley]

Not looking at the prairie dogs or whatever. But I also.

[Griffin Newman]

If he kills the dog. Successful. Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Happy, Happy. Ending.

[Griffin Newman]

They're married.

[Ben Hosley]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, what I also love about it is the way that they seed the punchline. Right. Or the. The setup is really kind of beautifully hidden. It's like, okay, look, if this goes down like this, you like, you know, like you're not. You hear it and it sounds very heroic, but you're. You don't. Like, it's like when you realize that at the end, like. Oh, right. Like it really is a magic trick ending because it out turns tells you what's. What's happening. It's like, if I go down, you kill yourself.

[Griffin Newman]

But. But his line at the end is like, poor girl, she didn't know she could have made it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know that it's like this misinterpretation of a. A second moment of a moment of a movement of a sound.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But he made her so afraid and gave her the what to do.

[Griffin Newman]

And she told her the story.

[Jason Manzoukas]

She just followed through.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And this was the. The better of two bad options. And. And it's like if he had sat up a second earlier.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, that's it.

[Griffin Newman]

If he had made a noise.

[Ben Hosley]

But you. But here's my thought about it too. She has just gone through death, right? And she. And I think that she's quick. Like, she's not. Maybe if she didn't go through death, she wouldn't. She would have waited a moment more. But like, she's like, okay, boom. I'm like that. She made that choice instantly. And I don't know if that's about grief. I don't know what that. If that's about grief, but I have to imagine. Imagine that that quickness of the choice feels like she's been there, she knows, and she's.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's what I think it's about. I think this segment is about two characters very, very tentatively and with great doubt considering has the world reached a state of modernity where we could live a life based on happiness first? And the fact that it's all about you have to get in this wagon and follow your shitty dumb brother because he might have a prospect of a man for you to marry. Because maybe you're seen as a little plain and a little timid. No one wants to marry you, and that's your ultimate value as a woman. Right. There's no notion of marrying for love, marrying for happiness.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No.

[David Sims]

It's like you're making it to arguing. You're gonna have to survive. Like, we're planting footholds out here, baby. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I think she plays a beautiful balance of she's not treating this as she's walking towards her death sentence. It is what it is. I guess I maybe have to marry my brother's friend, but maybe he's not even that interested in me. Maybe there's not a guy there. Whatever. Right?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And she doesn't play. And I was thinking about this too. She doesn't play it totally either way. Like I think a lot of times you see like true or you see like so tentative, so awkwardly like, oh, no one will like this is a unlikable thing.

[Griffin Newman]

She's just kind of is what it is.

[Ben Hosley]

Vanilla. Like that's it, you know, it's like she's nice.

[Griffin Newman]

In their odd backwards courtship, which is sort of like presented it as a marriage of convenience, you know, an arrangement that this is a business proposal. This is a survival mechanism. Whatever. They are both refusing to really let themselves accept that maybe this is what they emotionally want. All of their conversations keep happening in non emotional terms. While there is clearly an emotional connection happening where the reason she hesitates when he proposes it to her is. I think what she plays very well is the notion of I actually have caught feelings for this guy and him presenting it as, well I'll just do this because it saves us both money. Is that a worse fate for me to end up with a guy who I care about, who is viewing me as means to an end or is he doing this out of pity? That would hurt me more that they're both feeling each other out of being too afraid to acknowledge. I actually think I just like you because that's not really a thing afforded.

[Jason Manzoukas]

People because not what was being done at that time exactly. We people weren't marrying for love and for, you know, was convenience. It was arrangements that made sense.

[Ben Hosley]

And so can you justify like you have to justify your feelings through some sort of balance sheet that this world identifies and says is the right way to do.

[Griffin Newman]

The tragedy of her brother's death opens up an opportunity of living a life of enjoyment and pleasure. Right. And like self fulfillment being understood and seen, which both of them feel skeptical about. And his whole fear is, obviously, I don't want to end up like Mr. Arthur. This guy's like the best of the West. But what he's an old man who like sleeps on rocks, you know? And like what, he's going to die in two years? I feel this guilt of leaving him here to do this alone. But also this is probably my only off ramp to living a quote unquote normal life.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, a. A life that is Or a life that could be happy or full of love. And in the last segment, which David would you like to segue into? The last segment?

[David Sims]

Absolutely. The Mortal Remains. My favorite segment, but also a perfect, like I said, capper to their career.

[Griffin Newman]

In a way, we'll say I gave Zoe Kazan a supporting actress nomination. This same area.

[Jason Manzoukas]

She makes this piece work with every moment she's on screen. She is electric to watch.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't want to see her.

[Ben Hosley]

Can I say one thing about. Because we just. I just. As you just were talking about that, I just want to hit one thing and we'll go right into five. Is that idea that. Is there also a thing about. Its easy to give up?

[Griffin Newman]

Very.

[Ben Hosley]

And I feel like that like. Because it's like she doesn't give up initially, you know, and when her brother dies and she got. I'm gonna move forward. She doesn't give up again. Like, she keeps on not giving up. But then at the end I was like, it's too hard. I'm just gonna.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

At a certain point it's like, Jesus Christ. Like, how, what, like what's life gonna be like?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right. I'm probably in my 20s. I probably have a life expectancy of 40. Like, what are we doing?

[Griffin Newman]

It's like.

[Ben Hosley]

And already in this like handful of.

[David Sims]

Days, like everything's being. I mean, it's. Which is the wagon train thing.

[Ben Hosley]

I can't go back.

[Griffin Newman]

Where's back. Like, there's no future ahead of me, but my past exists even less.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And then suddenly this, this sliver of hope opens up towards not just a possible future, but possibly a good love filled future. In the final episode, when they're in the. In the thing and the trapper is talking about the woman that he was involved with and someone says, did you. You love her? Like, this is, I think, the first time the word love has been spoken in the entire movie. And he's like, what?

[Griffin Newman]

Like what.

[Jason Manzoukas]

What are you even talking about? Like, what is love?

[Griffin Newman]

Right? That's.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That is like that doesn't exist for another hundred years.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. And I think you could argue that the characters in the first three segments, I mean, like Tom Waits is obviously a guy who refuses to give up and wins. Right?

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But the other three are people who push through some kind of struggle or do danger and you look at their ultimate deaths and you go, would it have been better if they just gave up at an earlier point?

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, what are you fighting for? To a certain.

[Ben Hosley]

Meanwhile, when she gives up, it was just over the crest of the Hill, where her life is. Her new life is.

[Griffin Newman]

It was about to happen.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And she gave up because of a misunderstanding, which is, I just think, such a profound tragedy.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's beautiful. And this one's loosely based on a couple different pieces.

[David Sims]

It's based on a story called the Gal who Got Raped Battled.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

By Stuart Edward White. I don't know much more about it. I mean, that's why this.

[Jason Manzoukas]

So it's this one. The Tom Waits.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Adapted screenplay nomination, because no one was really thinking of this as an adapted movie.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But also, I. I feel like the. The specific story that is cited is also based on kind of a legend of a folk tale.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Of similar sort of like a. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Western. Like, this is like a Western tropes.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. I mean, like. And that's why I feel like the end is really, really. When you talk about, like, different and that. And that, I think, is why, like, when you leave this movie, it all pulls. It. I mean, it really does pull the chords all together at the end.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, the final one. The final one being this kind of so starkly different, both in how it's done, how it looks. It is so insular. It is almost entirely inside of the carriage. It's in a studio.

[David Sims]

Right. The creepiness. Creepiness of. You realize how dark it's gotten. And then. And then the extra creepiness of them being like, stop. Stop the carriage. And they're like, oh, it doesn't stop, like, for anything. Like, Ty Daly might just have to bite it. Like, you know, and then.

[Griffin Newman]

This is an episode of the Daily Show. We should call that.

[David Sims]

And this is an episode.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And Lacy. Yeah, this is an episode of Cagney and Lacy.

[David Sims]

No, I'm more of a Judging Amy guy. Oh, Bren, she was so good on that.

[Ben Hosley]

I will also say that this is, I think, why I lean in a lot here, too, is like, these are five actors that are just. This is dialogue heavy, and I'm. I am riveted to it. And maybe it's also because of the lack of it or this kind of pacing all the way through. It's like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but this is a classic Cohen's juice of just watching, like, five great character actors. I can cut it up.

[David Sims]

Chelsea Ross, who I love.

[Griffin Newman]

Great.

[David Sims]

The great Chelsea Ross, who plays the trapper, just gets the pop off for five minutes. Mark.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Lin Baker.

[David Sims]

Marklin Baker. Who's Marklin? No, no, no, no. Who. Who is that mean as the Englishman.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No.

[David Sims]

Who do you mean?

[Griffin Newman]

Saul Rubin is the Frenchman.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Ty Daly is the.

[David Sims]

Is Mrs. Betman. The, the.

[Ben Hosley]

The.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Who am I thinking of?

[David Sims]

I think you think of John Joe o'.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Neal.

[David Sims]

Unless you're thinking of Brendan Gle.

[Griffin Newman]

I always think, is Jeremy Strong or not Jeremy Strong? Danny Strong.

[David Sims]

It is not. I know what you're saying. Looks like the guy's name is Johnre o'. Neal. He also kind of looks like Mark.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Does he look like Mark?

[Griffin Newman]

Mark Lin, Big.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

He looks like a lot of other.

[David Sims]

Guys, but his name is Johnre o'.

[Ben Hosley]

Neal.

[David Sims]

He's mostly like an Irish theater actor. But they've all got a monologue except for Brendan Gleason who has a song I feel. Right. You know, I mean we're sort of trading off. Like everybody gets to talk sort of almost uninterrupted for a bit.

[Griffin Newman]

He's also part of a duo act that can be read very cleanly as a self insert of the Cohen or at least kind of thinking about how they are perceived by their critics. That is part of my reading of this segment. That you have these people who represent this segment is almost like a Pixar's inside out argument between different positions, kind of philosophies or. Yeah, it's a philosophical debate. Each character is representing a side of it.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You, you have the Saul Rubin character who is like actually just, just a philosopher. He is a guy who's very caught up in an academic notion of studying theories of existence. You have a religious woman who also lives with a kind of shuttered, blinded denial of certain areas of existence.

[David Sims]

And. But she's also specifically like, she subscribes to like Chautauqua thought, which was like a big thing right at the turn of the century in terms of what she's talking about, that kind of temperant woman's movement. Whereas Chelsea Ross is like, I don't know, I'm a dirty guy with a big beard. But I realize we're all the same.

[Ben Hosley]

But that's the best part about it is no matter what you believe, it all is the same.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

Right. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Chelsea Ross has no theology. He's just like, I, a woman doesn't matter, I can't talk to her. I catch some beavers.

[David Sims]

We kind of do some hand signals. It's all good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's all good. And then you have these two brothers who I think are representing this notion of the Cohen's as these sort of like mordant tricksters who love like spitefully, kind of like mockingly sending characters, characters to their death.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, and that's what I think is kind of this. If it Is the.

[David Sims]

They say we enjoy it. We like watching them.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is what their credits say.

[David Sims]

Right? No, I know, I know, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Putting dumb characters in danger and having them die. Terrible.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, go ahead.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I was gonna say they even say like, oh, you can bring them in dead or alive. And they're like, yeah, but we, we only bring them in dead. Don't worry, we kill everybody.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, but I love that if this is the last one and whether it was not intentional, probably that they didn't know.

[David Sims]

It's like, not entirely.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, but this is the first time I feel like you see the two of them represent. I mean, these are very much them, right? I mean.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes. And. And even down to. They are bounty hunters who act. Whose act is. One guy's a performer.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Who distracts so that the other guy can attack. Which speaks to this kind of like the two headed director thing that people talk about with them of like two guys approaching the same motive from different angles.

[Ben Hosley]

I've always heard also that 1, 2 talks to you about acting and one is worried all about the technical stuff when you were on set.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

You know?

[David Sims]

Sure, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

But also that they represent this sort of like in, in the, the ideological wheel of this. That they represent this sort of like we tell ourselves stories in order to live thing.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

That like, what is their function? Death's coming no matter what. We're not murderers. We're just fulfilling a thing that has already been requested by the universe. And we, we ease people into that with stories. Right? We. We tell them stories, we sing them songs, these old folk tales. Well, that's. The stories they tell are. Are gothic, are mordant, you know, and.

[Ben Hosley]

And that's why you have that, like. I think these bookends, it's like the first is like them doing the movie version of how they do it. And then this is like the, the com. Not the commentary track, but the Q and A afterwards. You know, it's like it's. You have the, the two perspectives of what they're trying to do.

[David Sims]

100%.

[Griffin Newman]

But there's just, just one stop on the carriage and everyone's got to get out here.

[David Sims]

Love it. And they don't want to.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And they don't want to. First I need help getting down.

[David Sims]

Like, these are some good bits. Some good. I don't want to go bits.

[Ben Hosley]

It's. And it's, it's.

[David Sims]

And I like saw Rubinette going like, yeah, all right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like, let me at them.

[David Sims]

But sorry, Paul, go.

[Ben Hosley]

No, I just, I. This is something that I just Feel like rewatching it. I didn't remember it from the first time as cleanly. And then I was like, oh, this is, I think my favorite thing.

[David Sims]

I agree. No, I agree.

[Griffin Newman]

Mark Pe.

[David Sims]

Or.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry. Joshua Pease wrote a piece for the now defunct Birth Movies Death on this segment when it came out. That's incredibly good about this sort of being what feels like the greatest summation of their worldview.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Forgive me, because even though I'm such a fan and a regular listener. Patreon member. Does the dossier get published?

[David Sims]

No.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay.

[David Sims]

To like the. The sources JJ's pulling like, it's like commercializing in any way is a little tricky. You know, academic things we don't want to clear.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Would that what you just said, Griff, is a great example. I would, after some of these things, want to then go and read or listen to or whatever. Please do.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you can get.

[Ben Hosley]

I like that. I like that idea.

[Griffin Newman]

Jj. JJ is such a law abiding citizen that anytime we.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The movie we're doing tomorrow night in Philly. Are you really?

[David Sims]

Really.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Have I seen that? Is that the Jamie Foxx one?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Gerard Butler.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's F. Gary Gray.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, is it? I didn't realize that. I haven't watched it yet.

[David Sims]

It was like a hit.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It was a hit.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, it was. I remember when it came out, people were talking, this is the new seven.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, this is like the way it was. Like, it was like a. Like, you know, it was like that. Like, I forget. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's got a big twist. Right?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right.

[David Sims]

It's not like he's done a ski meme. That's like he gets put in prison and he comes out and he can.

[Ben Hosley]

Do bad things or whatever. We're gonna figure it out tomorrow. We watched Monkeybone today, which.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Which Gary Gray. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, the problem with that monkey bone is just so normal and regular.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I wish they'd lose.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm gonna say this tonight on stage. I imagine it's the. We've been doing this show for 15 years. How did this get made? Is the first time I literally wrote down in my notes, how did this get made? Like, how did it, like go? I don't understand how the script was written. I don't understand how anyone signed on to it. I don't understand any. I was like, like. And this is not like from the 1970s.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is like we've seen.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, they did it on this show. Henry Selleck.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Oh, wow.

[Griffin Newman]

It's Also, it's one of the greatest better. All the years of therapy and analysis and psychiatric work I've done, rarely has someone nailed me to the wall as hard as. As Sims. When I was talking about how much I loved this movie when it came out as a child and he was like, it makes perfect sense that the chaos in your brain. How have you have described feeling when you were a child that monkey bone would feel like a relief.

[David Sims]

Monkey bone calmed that it down.

[Jason Manzoukas]

If only I could be in the underworld.

[David Sims]

Everyone else is like, popping Advil watching that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

And that my brain was like 17 different, like cartoon alarm clocks all doing, like teens. I was like, oh, monkey balls. Monkey ball's kind of settling. Monkey balls.

[Ben Hosley]

Monkey balls is a good one.

[Griffin Newman]

Monkey bone is a dick. I mean, that represents a penis. Jj. JJ just. He is. Has always been like, if I were to publish these, I would go about them a very different way because he respects.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I get it.

[Ben Hosley]

I think that, like, sometimes it's like, it may just be nice to have just the straight up links to something, like without the, you know, like if the bigger pieces like the love movies, death and stuff like that, like drop.

[Griffin Newman]

Links in the description.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah, yeah, we do that as well as the newsletter.

[Ben Hosley]

Newsletter is great.

[Griffin Newman]

Able to sort of hand select some of that. But. But some. Some of the dossier gets messy and J.J. starts editorializing.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, that's great. I love that he does.

[David Sims]

I like a little JJ Aside.

[Griffin Newman]

I. But just a little bit. Just a little. And we should say that this week he did too much and thus he is fire.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, wow.

[David Sims]

I guess, like, sad to let him go.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a shame.

[Ben Hosley]

He's in the.

[David Sims]

He's in the cart and he's in the carriage.

[Griffin Newman]

No, he's.

[Ben Hosley]

Drop him in the. The river.

[Jason Manzoukas]

How heavy a rock. How heavy a rock is.

[Griffin Newman]

JJ Is pretty heavy.

[Ben Hosley]

Here we go.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Ben Hosley]

Now I'll ask you all a question as you.

[David Sims]

You.

[Ben Hosley]

You've talked about on Was the Big Lebowski episode.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Where, you know, John Turturro obviously goes off and makes his movie. The Jesus.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course.

[Ben Hosley]

Is there a character in this that you would like?

[David Sims]

Because, like, he's in Buster Scruggs. Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, I want a movie about now Rich Tom Waits.

[David Sims]

That is like. Like Chester Lampwick in the Simpsons episode with the solid gold car or whatever.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He's rich. What? How is he different?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I love that everything has to work out.

[David Sims]

Everything but, like, no conflict.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Him and smile. It's him and the owl.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, it's very Beverly Hills Bellies if you think of it, you know, it's like. But a different era.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, beyond all the obvious reasons why the weight segment is such, like, Ben bait. Like, you know, old coot digging. Oh, yeah, right, right. Tom weights himself.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's a. It's wet too.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. But it also is a. Everything works out. It is a guy who seems destined for failure and death, and at the end, he leaves with a bunch of gold.

[Ben Hosley]

By the way, I'm not.

[Griffin Newman]

You're always asking movies to do.

[Ben Hosley]

I. I will. You know, now, I'm not advertising, Sora, but I did see a. You could, you know, you could get in the sore and just put those jeans in there too. You could actually make this segment right up your alley. It has to be real because I just. Just saw. Which I. I'll show you a post episode something posted. Randy Macho Man Savage in Revenge of the Sith. And it is. It is.

[David Sims]

This is the whole problem with A.I.

[Ben Hosley]

You'Re like, that sounds good.

[David Sims]

And I.

[Ben Hosley]

And I watch it and I was like, wow.

[Jason Manzoukas]

For a multitude of. Wait, is he just inserted or is he taking place?

[David Sims]

Is he.

[Ben Hosley]

It's the final scene with, you know, we. It's. It's with.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You, Anakin. You were my brother.

[David Sims]

Brother.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, yeah. He's doing. He's doing the lines. I mean, I'll play a. I'll play a section of. You can hear a section of it just to hear it. But it's. He's doing. He's doing the lines. I mean, it's so funny.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I like.

[Griffin Newman]

You're saying he's doing the lines as if it isn't like CGI necromance.

[Jason Manzoukas]

What a bummer.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, this is.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I mean, what a bummer. This is so interesting to me.

[Griffin Newman]

What a bummer. This sounds awesome.

[David Sims]

It's another reason you should stay off social media, Jason, that there's less ability to manipulate. Manipulate you.

[Griffin Newman]

That is effective.

[David Sims]

Terrifying. Wait, who's. Who's taking the. Taking the Hayden role?

[Ben Hosley]

I think it's this. I think it's Hayden.

[David Sims]

It's like, okay.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, that's funny as hell.

[David Sims]

Yeah. No, I mean, this is what AI Is for. I want to see Leon Kennedy From Resident Evil 4 attend the Met Ball.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's. That happened today.

[Ben Hosley]

Anyway, I'm sorry.

[David Sims]

That is the one time told him this.

[Ben Hosley]

You could redo it.

[David Sims]

I wanted that to happen. All right.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And our fans have always been so normal about our use of A.I.

[Griffin Newman]

Be clear. We hate A.I.

[David Sims]

We hate A.I. we reject it.

[Griffin Newman]

I want to be unequivocal about it, but can you send me that link I hate?

[David Sims]

No.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He truly reject I hate AI as it's used in creative pursuits. But boy, am I down for AI in crunching data for medical research and all manner of other things that it is great at.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the whole problem. It's like there's three things we wanted to do and we're. Tremendous amount of money is being spent on the exact things we don't.

[Jason Manzoukas]

In 10 years, we're about to get a lot of cures for catastrophic diseases and a tremendous amount of dog content.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the problem.

[Ben Hosley]

You're gonna get a lot of posting. I mean that, that, that 22nd thing is a post.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That company that just said they're Gonna put out 500 AI podcasts.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that's called a check production, baby.

[Jason Manzoukas]

We're doing it.

[Ben Hosley]

No. Yeah. So crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

We want to be very clear. Hate AI. Stay tuned for our slate of AI shows launching 2020.

[David Sims]

You ever want a podcast, it's just 500 llamas. Oh, we got one.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's AI Marie Barty.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We actually fed her all the way. We just.

[Griffin Newman]

We just pushed her exclusive rights to her laugh, which will be replicated on other podcasts.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's her laugh and Seth Rogen's laugh. Great laugh. Just head to head.

[Griffin Newman]

It is a shame we didn't have them in the same room. I do.

[David Sims]

I do need to wrap up soon, but we should play the box office game before we do Cohen's top 10 sheer.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I want to say to Paul's point, Jesus roles is Turo saying coins. Do you mind if I take this character and run with it? If Tim Blake Nelson said tomorrow, hey, would you let me make a full Buster Scruggs movie? I would not be concerned about that.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, you know, I think you'd have to figure out how does it sustain because yeah, it is a Bugs Bunny short.

[David Sims]

Maybe it can't. I mean, maybe it can't.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not saying he should. No, I trust him as a writer and director enough that if he said, I want to see if I can do Buster script Scruggs on my own, I wouldn't immediately say red alert in the way.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That Turturro announcing I'm making a sex comedy of the Jesus on a road was like, this is only bad ideas.

[Ben Hosley]

No, I agree. I feel like there. But this is like a world in which I wish that they would make more shorts. And almost like that Netflix would allow like a. A Coen Brothers short channel like every you know, it's like, you know, just they make one thing. It doesn't have to be big. It's just like a 15 minute. I mean, it's unrealistic, but I would love to see that kind of collaboration with them.

[Griffin Newman]

Our friend, the aforementioned Conor Atliff, has said that he thinks the high points of this are amongst the best stuff the Cohens have ever done, and that he feels like if it had been released as separate shorts, that it would sort of stand in greater estimation. Because some of these are just really pleasant to rewatch and really easily revisitable. And obviously the point is putting them all together in the greater conclusion they come to, right? In the thematic connections and. And echoes. But some of these are like, tough hangs, right? And you're like, you know, meal tickets, incredible. But you don't, like.

[Ben Hosley]

You're not gonna pop that in.

[Griffin Newman]

You're not inclined to fire it up. I have watched the Buster Scruggs segment upwards of 10 times. This is the second time I've ever seen meal tick.

[David Sims]

I think that's understandable. Yeah. Yeah, right. That makes sense. And even Mortal Remains, which I love, I only love it as the capper.

[Griffin Newman]

To this movie, doesn't work on its own.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You wouldn't watch it on its own, but, boy, I would send someone. The Tom Waits one, the Buster Scruggs.

[David Sims]

One individual, and maybe the Franco one, right? And like.

[Griffin Newman]

But we reduced it to a gift. We have the Franco one. And the most palatable.

[Ben Hosley]

I know.

[David Sims]

I do hear that Netflix building a theme park and that the carriage ride will be a part of it.

[Ben Hosley]

By the way, in many respects, the Franco Gif is the chicken.

[David Sims]

The Franco Gif is the chicken. And thank you for saying that, Paul. And it is true.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, well said.

[David Sims]

Now, this film, this film came.

[Griffin Newman]

This one, the podcast.

[David Sims]

He did a good job. He did a good job. Film came out November 9, 2018.

[Griffin Newman]

Louis CK and I were seated.

[David Sims]

Obviously, Netflix did not report its box office at all, but it was not number one at the box office. Number one was an animated film based on a children's classic story. Griffin. That this movie made you feel normal and regular.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the Peanuts movie.

[David Sims]

No, I have it.

[Ben Hosley]

Harold and Purple Crayon.

[David Sims]

Nope.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. It's 2018.

[Jason Manzoukas]

What month?

[David Sims]

You said November. November.

[Griffin Newman]

And I tazed out over this one.

[David Sims]

You didn't like. You didn't like some of the things going on in this one. I've never seen it.

[Griffin Newman]

I didn't like some of the things.

[David Sims]

You didn't like the star. You didn't like the voice he was doing.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, this is Benedict Cumberbatch as the Grinch.

[David Sims]

This is the illumination, the Grinch movie.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Never seen it.

[Ben Hosley]

I've watched it many, many times.

[David Sims]

It made about $500 million.

[Ben Hosley]

It is. This is a. This is right in the wheelhouse of my kids.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

Tyler, the creator, does a song. Your meme, Mr. Grinch. Here's what I will say. I do. Yo. Yes. I. I do not like the retconning that we like the Ron Howard Grinch.

[David Sims]

They're re releasing the one I like is the. The original cartoon. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. But they are re releasing that in theaters this Christmas. I'm like, no, no, no, no, we didn't. That was.

[David Sims]

I agree with you. I mean, that movie was a colossal hit. The Ron Howard film.

[Ben Hosley]

That's because it just. People went like, it's Ron Howard. It's from Carrie.

[David Sims]

I think it was a little bit like Christmas time. The Grinch is here.

[Jason Manzoukas]

There is a nostalgia for people of a certain age that that movie aired when they were young, and now they're gonna show it to their cats also.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, that was the highest grossing film of its year. It was a ginormous blockbuster.

[Ben Hosley]

And they built a section of park at Universal. They have not taken over. It's still there. Whoville is still there. Part of Horror nights.

[Griffin Newman]

I also think it's interesting that, like, Universal was like, we're gonna make this animal animated Grinch because people have complaints about the Jim Carrey one. And maybe we can make a better, definitive Grinch movie and replace the stuff in our parks. Like, it felt like that was part of the impetus was, let's have a new representation of Grinch because the movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Quietly makes $500 million and Universal has gone back to Jim Carrey Grinch. Like everything in the park.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I would never have been able to pull that. That I have no recollection of it even existing.

[Ben Hosley]

That, like, I've seen it about 17 times.

[Griffin Newman]

After Boris Carloff did the Chuck Jones animated version, they announced Ben to Cumberbatch. And I'm like, makes sense. Perfect voice for Grinch. I see the first trailer. He's like, I don't like Christmas. And I'm like, why does he sound like me?

[Ben Hosley]

I know.

[Griffin Newman]

Hire Benedict Cumberbatch and have him sound like.

[David Sims]

I love this rant.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He should sound like SM.

[Griffin Newman]

He should.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And say, One Mr. SM.

[Griffin Newman]

I find presents annoying. Sometimes they bounce, baby.

[David Sims]

Number two at the box office is a. It was a big hit. A film was a big hit. One of one Oscars.

[Griffin Newman]

One Oscar.

[David Sims]

It is very bad.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it Bohemian Rhapsody? There we go. There we go.

[Ben Hosley]

My favorite thing about Bohemian Rhapsody was when it won best editing for the Oscar.

[David Sims]

Well, it did have the most edited.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, that was.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That was quantity, volume.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

It was mind blowing. I. Because I would not. I did not sit through that. I did not subject myself to that full.

[Griffin Newman]

This is so weird. I. I just googled who directed Bohemian Rhapsody. My iPad caught on fire.

[David Sims]

I will never forget the whole nightmare. Obviously, that movie's production has already unfolded in the press.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then they're like, come to the press screening. I go to, you know, they're kind of like, here's Bohemian. I go to it. I was like, f that movie. Like, so glad I don't have to think about this again. And then it won Academy Awards.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Can you believe it's a giant hit? Does that Queen is like, no, no. Here's my question, because I think about this all the time when I'm listening to you guys talk about it. Does that ever. Because I have really, in my adulthood, lost faith in awards. Lost faith in the Oscars. Lost faith.

[David Sims]

This is communicating quality.

[Jason Manzoukas]

These are not. These awards do not delineate what are the. The best or most interesting or deserving movies whatsoever. Does Bohemian Rhapsody or Green Book or any of these other other awards cause.

[Griffin Newman]

You to lose a really bad year?

[Jason Manzoukas]

I caused you to lose faith in the institution of the Oscar?

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

I have given. What you call. My. My friend gave me a tip many, many years ago to do any Oscar pool. And it's been very good for me, which is just go by, look at it and go like, who's the biggest name? What title sounds interesting. You'll always win short film because a majority of choices, voices are people that are just like, oh, yeah, that person's in a show. Great. Like, it's. It's the reason why I think SNL is cleaned up in the supporting actor category because it's like, oh, Bad Bunny was on sn.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I bet Tiffany Haddish did a good job. That sounds like she would have done that well.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right?

[Ben Hosley]

And it's like, oh, it's. And not that. Not that she's not. But it is a funny, interesting thing that I think it is just people just going down. I think there's a lot of people who watch it. I think a lot of people care about it, but I think a majority of people are just going on odd gut choices.

[Griffin Newman]

There was that year that Ellen Burstyn got a supporting actress nomination for an HBO movie. From the Emmys.

[David Sims]

One second.

[Griffin Newman]

It is, it is a sub 10 second cameo and she was just like, clearly they just saw my name on a list and said she's probably good in that.

[Ben Hosley]

Don Cheadle got nominated for best supporting actor and yes, the Captain America winter soldier through a museum and probably on screen for two minutes.

[Griffin Newman]

He's weirdly on screen longer than he was on on set. No. I think the Oscars are in a weird place where they've made such a push to diversify their ranks and go younger and more international, more diverse and weirder and try to expand the taste of their voting body because it had become so old and calcified. And what happens now is it feels like there's a pendulum swing every couple of years where you get a year like this where you're like all dog.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Green picture, parasite the other way.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's a weird back and forth.

[Ben Hosley]

I also think it's reflective of the time. Like this year is going to be interesting because it's like what's really out there and what. What's going to be Coming up for most normies is a bunch of movies they don't know. It's like the Train Dreams and Hedda and all that sort of stuff. It's going to be like no one's going to see that. But the movies that the two you hamnet like, it's going to be Sinners and One Battle. And I would argue that One Battle, as much as I love it, is not going to be even on most people's radar. Sinners is going to be the only movie this year that is going to make any.

[Griffin Newman]

And Wick and Avatar going to get in there. But are they going to get in there as a sort of consolation prize? You don't really have a chance of winning nominations.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Green Book 2.

[Griffin Newman]

Green Book 2 is Stealth the Next Chapter a strong contender.

[Ben Hosley]

I like it. I mean it's fun.

[David Sims]

It's.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, it's deeper.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's good.

[David Sims]

Green Book Two. Hardly booking number three at the box office. A bit of a forgotten film. It's new this week. It's an action horror film.

[Griffin Newman]

Action horror.

[David Sims]

Yes. A period action horror. It's a war horror movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a war.

[Ben Hosley]

Not Shadow in the Cloud.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it Overlord.

[David Sims]

Overlord Julius Avery movie?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I weirdly fell down a rabbit hole. Wikipedia. Last night of Julius Avery was announced in 2020 to reboot Van Helsing.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't remember how I got there. I was going down a Van Helsing thing.

[Ben Hosley]

Right?

[David Sims]

Uhhuh.

[Griffin Newman]

Overlord. Only for that reason.

[Ben Hosley]

I was going to say we did it last night. Van.

[David Sims]

He. He since then has done Samaritan, the Nicholas Cage superhero movie that's kind of forgotten.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Was that Stallone?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Sorry, what am I talking about? Stallone?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Not. Not Cage. And then the Pope's Exorcist, of course.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, yes. Which we also, by the way, Samaritan.

[Ben Hosley]

Was a direct rip of a movie that I had done, Arch Enemy. That was that. I was like, it was almost shot. The trailer was cut the same way too. It was very interesting.

[David Sims]

Manganiello.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, Right, Exactly.

[David Sims]

No, the thing about Overlord, which I've never seen and heard was like, okay, kind of like fun, silly, goofy, gory stuff, is that it was initially going to be another Cloverfield.

[Griffin Newman]

It was going to be World War II Cloverfield. And then the response to chlorophyld paradox was so bad that they were like.

[David Sims]

Let'S stop calling things Cloverfield versus it.

[Griffin Newman]

Being like this helps sell original spec script movies. If you tie them into the cloverfield and use that branding. They were like, we ruined the brand. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number four. The box office is a normal Disney family movie. Everyone remembers normal.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not a live action remake. No, but it has that vibe.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it Nutcracker in the four Realms? There we go.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Now you are one of three credit directors.

[David Sims]

Right? Lassie Halstrom did two of the realms. Joe Johnston did one. I. I did a Realm was my joke back in the day. But that was a true, I think classic Disney where they're like, let's do a Nutcracker movie. And they're like, okay, great. Any other ideas on casting story? And they're like, oh, just start production, throw a couple realms, figure it out.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't know what.

[David Sims]

They could have gowns and stuff. Like it's fine. Like it. Just because they fired Hallstrom and replaced him with Joe Johnson.

[Griffin Newman]

I think extensive re shoots were overseen by Joe Johnson.

[David Sims]

Like Morgan Freeman's there. He's got like an eye patch.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Never seen it. My daughter does love the Nutcracker. I watched the Macau Culin. One was sure.

[Griffin Newman]

That one's fun.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that one's good. Number five at the box office. Oh, one of my favorite movies of 2018.

[Griffin Newman]

Truly our.

[David Sims]

And I just attended an intimate dinner.

[Griffin Newman]

With its director, Bradley Cooper. Is it A Star Is Born?

[David Sims]

A Star is Born. Obviously a giant gigantic hit. It's been out for six weeks since made $178 million.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, well, did it end up at 2?

[David Sims]

It ended up making. I don't know. I mean, it. Definitely. Yeah. 215 domestic.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Another best song nomination in here.

[Ben Hosley]

If you remember the performance.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Totally normal performance of it.

[Ben Hosley]

That. That poof.

[David Sims]

That was one of those true. Like, the Oscars do rock. It's like, this is insane that I'm watching this.

[Ben Hosley]

And that's. And that is why I. I feel like the spectacle of the Oscars will still. You'll always get something good. Yeah, you will get something good.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm hoping this year, especially in 10 years when they let Will Smith back in the building, that's when you're gonna be guaranteed something good.

[David Sims]

I just did my hands out.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, two big slappers. Two big slappers.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, I still. We talked about this on how did this get made? I love his mea culpa to that in Bad Boys 4, where he does, like, kind of address. It's like Martin slaps him and it's like, now we've made peace with the slap. And then. That was one of the things I've made. And I think it was because of COVID Like, I've really made a turn on. Like, was it that bad? I mean, it was, but it's one.

[David Sims]

Of those things where Paul.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He could have killed people.

[David Sims]

Got a little too stirred on the other direction of like. And I was like, it's under attack. You are not allowed.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

Hitting people.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It is categorically, insanely not the done thing to.

[David Sims]

When someone is presenting. Be like, I think I'm going to come hit you.

[Ben Hosley]

And I think. I think the difference is, is like, look, we were all in Covid. There's a lot of shit going on.

[David Sims]

Oh, what's going on?

[Ben Hosley]

And I do think it just got. It was amped up so much that.

[David Sims]

I think less things to talk about.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. And when I looked at it again, or thought about it again, I was like, yes. What you're saying. You should not be charging a stage and slapping it by the face.

[David Sims]

And it's, you know.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

Don't do that.

[Ben Hosley]

But it was viewed as like, this, man. Oh, like, like, like if you were. If you were to hear it, you beat the. Out of this.

[Griffin Newman]

There was a live murder. Yeah, it was. I. I saw that at Marie Bar's Oscar party.

[David Sims]

Party. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And it was mostly party. It was a. It was a literal Barty party. And it was mostly like, film people, people who work in film, people who write, write about film people, study film. Everyone in there was just like a hardcore Movie nerd. And there was an hour and a half of people as if it was like, the Zapruder film.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Breaking down. Like, wait, what happened and why?

[Jason Manzoukas]

I wasn't even watching it. I. I mean, I'm like, I'm so out on this from the Oscars. I really haven't been watching it. And my. One of my, like, film guy text chains blew up. Hey, are you guys watching this? Did you. Was that a bit. Do you think that was a bit. And I had to.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. It felt like there was a collective, like, hallucination. And until he got up to accept the award, we were like, at some point, we're gonna get some answer.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Closure.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And the second he got up and started crying and said, like, Richard Williams, protect his family. Everyone just gassed and went, oh, my God. It was real. Like, he said the first line, and we went, oh, my God, it was real.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, I was. I am friends with Regina and. And Will Smith, but when she was. So she was hosting that year.

[David Sims]

She was. She and Schumer. Right. Were like, get us on stage.

[Ben Hosley]

What the.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Ben Hosley]

And so we were. We. The Black Monday cast was on a text chain, all, like, kind of rooting on.

[David Sims]

And then.

[Ben Hosley]

And then it was like. Then I remember. I think if it was. If I'm correct in saying it, we're like, that's a bit. Right? And it was like, no. Like, we did get verification. That was not a.

[Griffin Newman]

That must have been an astounding text received from someone in the room.

[Ben Hosley]

It was because it was like. Because the way it was also displayed. I remember, like, sound dropped out.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

It was in weird camera cut.

[David Sims]

And right.

[Ben Hosley]

And it was like. And then you got up, and there was, like, that shot where it was like somebody was talking to Will Smith in the corner. It was Denzel.

[Griffin Newman]

It was Bradley Cooper.

[David Sims]

Yeah, of course.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And you could only rewatch it on the Australian feed.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That was what was weird.

[David Sims]

Got. Crikey. This is mental.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's not a slap.

[Griffin Newman]

You beat me to it.

[David Sims]

Number six. Just to wrap up, we should do our Cones rankings. We've been podcasting for three hours. Number six, of course. This week. New this week. The very good idea of doing the girl in the spider's web. This. Let's do a sequel to Girl the Dragon Tattoo by adapting the fourth book written not by the guy.

[Griffin Newman]

And an actor. Valuable Cinematrix play. I scored off of it today.

[David Sims]

Nobody remembers.

[Griffin Newman]

No one remembers. It doesn't exist.

[David Sims]

Seven is nobody's fool. Is that.

[Griffin Newman]

That's Kevin Hart.

[David Sims]

No. Tiffany hadish That's Hadish. Regina. Is it? Wait, who is it?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Who is Fool? The Paul Newman.

[Griffin Newman]

I know.

[David Sims]

That's the problem.

[Griffin Newman]

Tika Sumpter.

[David Sims]

Tika Sumpter. Tiffany Haddish and Whoopi Goldberg. Amari Hardwick and Whoopy Goldberg. And she's got a wig on and she's kind of going like this. Whoopy Goldberg at the foolishness.

[Griffin Newman]

Whoop Goldberg has a bit in the trailer that is so funny.

[David Sims]

This is a Tyler Perry film.

[Griffin Newman]

But it was Tyler Perry at Paramount where he didn't usually make his films.

[David Sims]

Right. And kind of doing like what looks like a pretty ordinary rom com.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of thing sort of him to trying. Trying to do more of a like normal comedy in a Tiffany Haddish vehicle and not the Tyler Perry thing. I don't know if it veers into faith based lessons towards you.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Because I was trying to remember like it. That was one of those movies where again, it's still in the top 10, so it's making money. But it also was like not. Yeah, it was not well.

[Griffin Newman]

And it was just sold as another Tiffany Haddish.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a bit where they. I believe Whoopi Goldberg plays her. Their sisters and plays their mother. Mother. I think there's a bit where they go to visit the mom and they're yelling at her and she starts acting like the phone has dropped out and she can't hear them.

[David Sims]

That sounds funny.

[Griffin Newman]

And then they go, you're not on the phone. We're talking to you through a window miming this. That's funny.

[David Sims]

That sounds funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Really good.

[David Sims]

I just.

[Griffin Newman]

That's all I've seen.

[David Sims]

She's a national treasure.

[Griffin Newman]

Whoopi rules.

[David Sims]

And I always. Someone today just posted the famous thing she said on marriage to some interview.

[Griffin Newman]

I want someone sleeping in my bed.

[David Sims]

No, it's just. I don't want sleep someone in my house. That's what I think about it all the time. Number eight at the box office is Venom. He's there. He's been doing great. Number nine is the David Gordon Green Halloween giant hit. Number ten is the hate you give, which I feel like was they hoped for hit and wasn't really a hit. The young adult. It's a young adult movie based on a sort of a hit book.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. And that was. There was a lot. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Mandela, Sternberg, Regina Hall's in that and I saw it. It's okay. It's very, very serious.

[Ben Hosley]

Very. It's a shooting, right? A. Yes, yes.

[David Sims]

Very like sort of sensitive, serious. Teens wrestling with deep issues movie it's not very good. Yeah it's. It's okay that is that but Griffin, I know you're looking at your phone for this reason we this is not our last episode in this miniseries because.

[Griffin Newman]

Treating the Next the Cohen 3 as.

[David Sims]

Bonuses split up and did three movies.

[Ben Hosley]

Which we will oh, this is the that was the question I was going to ask like this so you it's.

[David Sims]

Not our finale for you do the.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Each gets their own Macbeth gets its own episode. Okay.

[David Sims]

We did it.

[Griffin Newman]

We haven't Driveway dolls.

[David Sims]

Honey don't.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay.

[David Sims]

But we will do our top our Cohen's rankings now.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay. I have done mine as well in the in the last 10 minutes.

[David Sims]

Fantastic. I knew you were playing with your phone and I was like Jason's up to something.

[Griffin Newman]

Like feels terrible. I'm looking at this list and it feels wrong but I It's like crazy any move feels like how.

[David Sims]

How could I There's no no right answer here.

[Griffin Newman]

And let me be clear. This is what I'm sort of putting as my ranking of what I consider their best works. Obviously Hudsucker Proxy is my favorite film of theirs. You can do one of my favorite movies.

[David Sims]

Well, you do what you want.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a universe in which I put that number one.

[David Sims]

Is there a movie before you do your list that rose high during the re recording of this or that dropped or is there anything like that? Like a sort of canonical fave?

[Griffin Newman]

I. I want to. I mean but like it's so arbitrary.

[David Sims]

It is a little bit.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like Raising Arizona dropped a little in Labow went up for me.

[David Sims]

I had the exact same reaction.

[Griffin Newman]

But I mean like.

[David Sims]

But I love them both.

[Griffin Newman]

Both masterpieces in my opinion. I have Lady Killer's last I will say I put Tragedy of Macbeth and Driveway Dolls ahead of Lady Killers. Sure, sure.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Those are not in my rankings.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, get them ranking.

[Ben Hosley]

I hear you.

[Griffin Newman]

I hear you. For the sake of this series Lady Killer's last then intolerable cruelty. Oh now everything past the and by the way I think until we cross cruelty is great past this point, every movie I'm going to list sounds like it's an insult to put it this low. And it's truly just an embarrassment of riches. I then have Blood Simple Scrugs True Grit.

[David Sims]

You have true grit that low. Okay, keep going. This is. I mean keep going. Keep going.

[Griffin Newman]

Raising Arizona.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Miller's Crossing. Oh, brother, where art Thou?

[David Sims]

And so now that was. That was 11th, right?

[Griffin Newman]

My 10 man who Wasn't There great movie. Nine, burn after reading. Eight. Lebowski. Seven, Barton Fink. Six. Hail Caesar. I put Hudsucker at five with me trying to be objective, but it's number one in my heart. But then there are four movies that I just think are stone cold, like, just undeniable masterworks. Number four, no Country. Number three, A Serious Man. Number two, Fargo. Number one, Inside Lu Davis. That's where I land.

[Ben Hosley]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

That's their best film, in my opinion. Hudsucker is my favorite. That's the distinction I want.

[David Sims]

Should I do mine?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you should do.

[David Sims]

All right. I have Lady Killers last, then Burn After Reading. Sorry. Then man who Wasn't There? Sorry, then Buster Scruggs, then Intolerable Cruelty all the way up to 14, then hail Caesar. Now we're just in movies. I love territory, man.

[Griffin Newman]

I put Hail Caesar a lot higher than you. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And oh, brother at 12, blood simple 11. My 10 are 10. 10 Hudsucker. Nine, raising Arizona. Eight, Miller's Crossing. Seven. No country.

[Griffin Newman]

Six.

[David Sims]

Lewin Davis. My five are very different from yours. Five, Big Lebowski. Four, Serious Man. Three, True Grit, all the way up there. Two Fargo. One Barton Fink. That's me.

[Griffin Newman]

Nobody yell at me like, our ranking is. Are. Are quite different. Incredibly different. And yet I'm like, I don't think you're wrong about anything.

[David Sims]

You're not mad at me.

[Jason Manzoukas]

So mine into the. Truly, these are. I cannot separate my true love for some of these from.

[David Sims]

It's allowed.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So the distinction are like millimeters.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah. You know, especially when we get into that top.

[Griffin Newman]

Six or seven Lady Killers is obviously number one with the bullet. For you.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Number one, intolerable cruelty. Number two. No. Lady Killer's intolerable cruelty are at the bottom. Bottom for me, man who Wasn't There? Buster Scruggs. Burn after Reading. These all could kind of be in any order, but they are all in that lower third. Burn after Reading. And then True Grit, It's. They're chunked to me. True Grit, Hail Caesar. Oh, brother. Are like that middle category. And then it gets into Blood Simple. Lewin Davis, Raising Arizona, Barton Fink, and then for me, Fargo, A Serious man. No Country Labowski, Miller's Crossing.

[Griffin Newman]

Miller's Crossing.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Miller's Crossing is my number one, just because it is baked in. It's the M.O. it's their movie that I've seen the most.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And I've seen Lebowski a lot. And I've seen Miller's Crossing more. Owen Burke. Our friend Owen Burke watches Miller's Crossing every year on St Patrick's Day. He told me this years ago and I've instituted it as well. And it's a blast.

[David Sims]

That is a great way to.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's a great revisit. And I just. It's one of those movies that I know every line of it is. I know every corner. I love that movie, even though I know that many of these movies are inarguably better movies. No country, especially Fargo, especially Miller's Crossing just has its hooks in me, as does Lebowski. Lebowski is so baked into like when I need a feel good watch to just disappear into it is always Lebowski.

[Griffin Newman]

You had Fargo at 3.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I had Fargo at 5.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Wow. I have Miller's Crossing is 1. Lebowski is 2. No country is 3. A Serious man is 4. Because I just think that is dynamic, incredible film. And Fargo is five. And I mean like a lot of these. I couldn't. If you said to me reorder those five in a different. I could happily own it, you know?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

These are all unintentional, unimpeachably just masterpieces by my estimate.

[Griffin Newman]

Agree with that. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

This is too quick for me to do it. I think that, that, that. And, but I, but I think I want to take a moment and say that when you ask Men's Health what their ranking of the Cohen brothers, I do appreciate you. Yes, yes. And I appreciate you asking.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I've been asking.

[Griffin Newman]

They haven't gone macked.

[Jason Manzoukas]

They rate them from 1 to 6 abs.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. It's an AB scale.

[Ben Hosley]

You know, the number one for them is, is going to be Fargo. That's Men's Health right now. A great, great one. I'm going to. But I'm going to maybe show you where they go a little bit off the rails maybe. You know, a vulture put intolerable cruelty in the top 10. Yeah, I think that everybody has to kind of do that. Men's Health did put burn after eating number six.

[David Sims]

You know, some people love burn after reading a lot.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I really, I have no problems with burn.

[Ben Hosley]

Serious reading before serious.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a little while.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's crazy.

[David Sims]

That's a little while.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The J. David Rashi scene. That movie is incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

Lights out.

[David Sims]

It absolutely makes the movie for me. I will say also just to note, like, ranking Coen brothers movies is like the quickest way, at least back when Twitter was somewhat usable to just get everyone frothing. You would just be kind of like, I think Barton Fink's my favorite Cohen's and Then, you know, one hour later, people are like, what's your dress? I'm gonna come kill you. Like. And it's. Even though we're all arguing over all movies that we all love, basically.

[Griffin Newman]

I just got tracking notice from Anthra.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I love it. So I remember seeing Barton Fink in the theater and being like, what the is going on?

[David Sims]

I am jealous.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is incredible. I think, like, I just like the John Goodman performance because at the time, I hadn't seen him do anything. Like, he was. It was unbelievable. You know, what a cr. I loved that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. No, it's. It's like, what order do I put? Five star masterpieces. Exactly.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm gonna make a show. Shocking admission. Never saw Barton Fink.

[David Sims]

Oh, well, you know what, Paul? Still now you have the best kind of homework.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, that.

[David Sims]

That is.

[Ben Hosley]

That is. That is. I don't know what it is. I've seen every single Coen Brothers movie.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You have such a good one.

[Griffin Newman]

Great night.

[David Sims]

And as someone, Paul, who works in Hollywood and I feel like knows a lot about how it works and has a lot of opinions on how it should work. Barton.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And I'm surprised, just as a Wallace Beery wrestling fan, you haven't watched.

[Ben Hosley]

But it was. It was one of those movies that I felt like, oh, you know what? I. I do this sometimes. I'm like, I'll wait until I can see it properly.

[David Sims]

I get that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

You know, I didn't see the Godfather.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Movies until I saw them at Film Forum in New York. So as an adult, because I wanted to wait until I could see it in a theater, I knew it would matter.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, right.

[David Sims]

I watched it on my apple watch. That's also.

[Griffin Newman]

You want to see Barton Fink, and then you hear really bad feedback from Bart Simpson and his friends, and they just completely discouraged you from going. And Naked Lunch. That's why you've never seen Naked Lunch.

[Ben Hosley]

The same thing, Bart. Really? On that one. It's also great to see. Like, I have a painting of Hudsucker proxy in my house.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I love it.

[Ben Hosley]

I love it so much. And it was one of those movies that I felt like when I saw I. I liking it made me like. Because everyone would be like, oh, raising Arizona. Raising Arizona. It's like. And you felt like, oh, there's no.

[Griffin Newman]

But I like this.

[David Sims]

Nobody's arguing for this one.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I was. See, I was part of the Cuz I'm full step older than you guys. Hudsucker, to me, felt like a betrayal.

[David Sims]

That was the. You're rubbing Your hands. You can't wait. The Cohen's made a big movie and then you're like, what the was that?

[Ben Hosley]

What the is this?

[Griffin Newman]

And before the Lady Killers and Tower Cruelty back to back, it was like that was the one.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It was a falter. It felt like a miss.

[David Sims]

Have you watched it?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh yeah, many times, Many times. And I think it's wonderful. But yeah, in that moment I can totally understand. I was like, what the guys, can.

[Griffin Newman]

I say this as a closing statement? Cuz we recorded our episode and then we, Ben Marie and I went out to LA and introduced a screening with the American Cinematic. Did this intro and I saw it again project on 35. Anytime I see it screening, I see it right? But these clowns movies, as we talk about, every time you watch them, I get different stuff out of them. They go up and down in my rankings at levels of greatness. Right. But certain elements jump out to me more. I have different readings. Maybe I get certain plot details wrong because I'm paying attention to one thing. But watching Hudsucker on the big screen that time, I like, something clicked in it for me that I'd never really thought about before. And especially knowing that it was a script they wrote early with Raimi that they couldn't get made and with all their clout they're like, we get to do this is. I think that movie is about like how to become successful without becoming an.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right, right. You can't let go of the. Yeah, absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

These guys who people often miscategorize as being very judgmental of their characters and condescending. I'm like, the way they treat Norville in the section of the movie where he becomes full of his own and high on his own supply is like the most disdain they have shown for any character. Like even more so in a way than like Anton Chigurh, right? Where they're like, this is the absolute cautionary tale of we just like making hula hoops and we want everyone to enjoy hula hoops. And how do we do that and ascend to levels of success without becoming this guy and needing to like fall off the side of a building and reclaim our humanity.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

And I think you like step back and you look and you're like, these guys had this career working together for 30 plus years, made like basically 20 masterpieces and just like stayed true themselves the entire fucking time. And even like say whatever you want about lady killers. That is very much we are not movie.

[David Sims]

We have never done a career as.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Nothing'S like I mean shot here with. Here we are at the end of your security.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Pretty much at the end of your series. Talking about a movie that while we might quibble with, you know, it might be a little uneven segment to se. Vignette. To vignette. Whatever. There was still so much in this that was wonderful for another four hours. Have you ever done a series? That is. But because I feel like by the end of most series you guys are cooked because now you're stuck with the dregs.

[Griffin Newman]

And this was as long a series as we've done basically.

[David Sims]

Pretty much.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean the solos are a little close. Closer to being drags for us.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Get ready for those three episodes where we are beginning to grab.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's the end. But that's a different story. You could have not done those or done those on the Patreon as all three of the. Or all four of the. Or three of those in one episode.

[Griffin Newman]

Like. Sure.

[Jason Manzoukas]

They are not the same.

[David Sims]

Maybe these are good ideas that we should have listened to.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Do you.

[Ben Hosley]

Do you feel like in those three films or do you have any research and not to tease this for the audience that they give each other notes on their solo films?

[Griffin Newman]

No, I don't think I've heard nothing.

[David Sims]

I've never heard anything like that.

[Ben Hosley]

Interesting to me to be like. To have such a close. Because I'm also creativity and it's like you're big. Oh, I don't know, dude.

[David Sims]

The safdies. It's having seen both those movies. It's the same thing as what the Cohen's were like. I see what each was bringing to the table.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

And I think both of the movies they made a loader are really good and I actually like them more than the balance. But you're just like this energy is here and this energy is over here. And they used to be together and now we're watching.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Do we know anything about the movie the Cohens are working on together?

[David Sims]

Except that they're working on something Just that they are.

[Griffin Newman]

That's maybe horror adjacent.

[David Sims]

Heard that.

[Griffin Newman]

But who knows then that also might be a loose starting point turn into.

[David Sims]

Something exciting to consider. It's another movie. But if this is their last movie. Which is not impossible.

[Griffin Newman]

It's impossible.

[David Sims]

I. I don't mind it as a movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I don't either. I think it's a. I think it's a good final film.

[Ben Hosley]

I hope we are wrong told a bunch of funny short. I mean short stories. That's their whole filmography is funny Little vineyards Vignettes I mean, they're movies, but. But I feel like that's what. It's kind of encapsulates everything about them. I love it as it.

[David Sims]

What?

[Jason Manzoukas]

What?

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, sorry, we made you.

[David Sims]

I have to go.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No, we have to.

[Ben Hosley]

We literally have to do a show.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll also say I saw. I saw Ethan Cohen on the street yesterday.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yesterday.

[Griffin Newman]

Right before recording this, our final record. He looked so cool.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Because I think of him as being like, the worm little one. He was wearing sunglasses, leather jacket.

[Ben Hosley]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

The walk where I had, like, five images on him. Easy. But he looked cool. Yeah. Just walking around. Flatiron.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I love that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Nomad looked rad as hell. Thank you guys for being here.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, what a pleasure.

[Ben Hosley]

What a pleasure.

[Griffin Newman]

Glad we made it work. It was new. You guys had some New York shows on the books. We were gonna do this episode guest list, and I threw out to Sims. Is it crazy if we see if they're free? And knowing very often you guys are so, so busy.

[Ben Hosley]

I literally everything to be.

[Griffin Newman]

To give an episode its proper space.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Thrilled to have been able to be included in this. What is, I think, inarguably the best series you guys have done, both in terms of films and episodes.

[Ben Hosley]

I think this is amazing. Yeah. Really truly fun. And it, like. I love this too, because it's a. It's a chance to revisit.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I feel like the re. Watches have been really great.

[Griffin Newman]

There's no better rewatch watch assignment than. Yeah.

[David Sims]

You guys have to do some dog next time.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah, you're doing dog next time. Is there anything specific you guys want to plug?

[Jason Manzoukas]

How did this get made? Yeah, you know, going strong, baby.

[David Sims]

Absolutely.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Year 15 or 16 now. I can't remember.

[David Sims]

I remember listening to that burlesque episode. That was one of the first.

[Ben Hosley]

That was the first one. Like, December.

[Griffin Newman]

When is old dogs in the first five?

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's in the early ones. It's a. It's the pilot that we never aired. And then we did do it.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Later.

[David Sims]

But burlesque. Just at my old job. Was it 09?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. So we did this. December will be 15 years old.

[David Sims]

My rocks.

[Ben Hosley]

So that's.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Congrats on the I Heart Awards.

[David Sims]

Decade and a half.

[Ben Hosley]

You know, look, this is. You know, we.

[Griffin Newman]

We went out to the Iheart Awards in Austin, Texas. We're all dressed up. We think they're about to present our category. It basically happens in a montage in between awards. They go like. What was. It was like Jameson asked you to raise a glass to podcast Word for best AD read goes to Colonel Brand award for best best Film TV Podcast. How did this get made? And we're just like, oh, they didn't even present it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

I assume. Oh, they didn't present it because they asked you guys and you weren't gonna show up. And I text you guys, congrats. And you said, on what?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And we said, you just won. And you said one what? And I was really. I heart. And you were like it. For what category?

[Jason Manzoukas]

No awareness whatsoever.

[David Sims]

None.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Zero awareness.

[Ben Hosley]

Now, I was at the first ever AstroPod podcast awards. And we can talk about that later.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I want to thank producer Ben for helping me. Helping me with the I've Got a Bone segment. And thanks to Zach Cherry for letting me do it. And.

[Griffin Newman]

And maybe thank me for the he man sunglasses.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And thanks to Griff for the sunglasses, even though he didn't know he was doing that for the bit. What a blast.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

What. And thanks to Emma er. Brick for helping us with the. With the tune and. And. And guys, by the way, just. Just listen to those doughboys. Those stupid doughboys. Action boys.

[Ben Hosley]

All the.

[Jason Manzoukas]

All the pod boys.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Sloppy boys.

[David Sims]

No, no, we women.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Did you say.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I said sloppy boys.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Sloppy boys. But also listen to the jerky boys as well.

[David Sims]

Revisit.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You know what?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I'm sure has aged beautifully.

[Griffin Newman]

Next week is Tragedy McBeath.

[David Sims]

Next week is the tragedy Dana Schwartz.

[Griffin Newman]

Returning to the show for another witch film.

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

Y.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

We got to plug holes, but not plug, but, you know, holes.

[David Sims]

Dig them and. But also the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

But when you say plug holes, it sounds like you're telling people to fill them in. Be clear in your language.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Create them.

[David Sims]

Right. So you don't like one of those senators who, like, fills potholes or whatever. You're like, I'm not voting for that guy.

[Ben Hosley]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

You got a Joe. A Joe Dirt philosophy of life's a whole. Dig it.

[David Sims]

Okay, we are done. I'm sure this is ranking in our.

[Griffin Newman]

Top five length at this point.

[David Sims]

Who knows?

[Jason Manzoukas]

No, there was episodes of just this series that were very.

[David Sims]

And Leslie, of course.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And Leslie is never. That will never. The only person capable of doing that is Alex Ross Perry.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Great job in Pavements, by the way.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you. That was fun to do. What if I promise to make the ad reads really long on this?

[Jason Manzoukas]

No, but.

[David Sims]

No, but we don't.

[Ben Hosley]

We already. We already did the big trick of the juicy hidden.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, no, I'm not. I'm not trying to make. I'm not trying to make waves here.

[Griffin Newman]

Arp was so angry when he discovered that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Did he was he?

[Griffin Newman]

He texted us when the episode dropped and was like, I guess I need to like concede the belt. And then a week later was like, there's 40 minutes of silence.

[Ben Hosley]

These.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, it was so good.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you for being here.

[Ben Hosley]

So much fun. Thank you for having us.

[Griffin Newman]

Excited to see you guys talk about monkey bone tonight.

[Ben Hosley]

Please. This be great.

[Griffin Newman]

And as always, smell you later.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Fartheads.

[Griffin Newman]

There we go.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I mean, I intro'd us. I might as well outro us.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and and Alan Smithee. Research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and podcast bonus episodes. Follow us on Social checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.