The Color Purple with Kenice Mobley

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David: Episode Summary — "The Color Purple with Kanise Mobley"

Release Date: March 9, 2025

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1. Introduction to "The Color Purple"

In this episode, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims delve deep into the film adaptation of Alice Walker's Pulitzer Prize-winning novel, "The Color Purple." Joined by guest Kanise Mobley, the conversation explores the complexities of adapting such a profound literary work into a mainstream Hollywood film under the direction of Steven Spielberg.

2. Steven Spielberg's Role and Directorial Choices

Griffin opens the discussion by critiquing the iconic tagline and poster of "The Color Purple," likening it to stereotypical 80s movie marketing:
"[00:44] Griffin Newman: I think the tagline for the Color Purple...It's about life, it's about love, it's about us is such a, like, terrible, like, you know, stereotypical 80s movie tagline..."

David expands on Spielberg's unique position, noting the film's "weird cultural object status" in his career:
"[02:00] David Sims: I'd never seen it before. This was the first time...it has a very weird status in his career."

Kanise adds her perspective as someone deeply connected to the cultural and emotional weight of the story:
"[26:44] Kanise Mobley: I am so worried about my street cred right now... it has some of the people who have defined blackness on camera for the last 50 years."

3. Casting Decisions: Launching Careers and Missed Opportunities

The trio discusses the significant casting choices, particularly how "The Color Purple" became a launching pad for stars like Whoopi Goldberg and Oprah Winfrey. Despite its commercial success, the film's casting decisions had varied impacts on the actors' careers:
"[39:28] Kanise Mobley: With her, like, Margaret Avery... I'm like, you if you put her in..."

Griffin highlights the contrast between Whoopi's breakthrough and Margaret Avery's stalled career:
"[38:42] David Sims: And then Whoopi Goldberg...gets slotted into comedy vehicles... her career is a one of one."

4. Oscar Nominations and Controversies

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the film's Oscar journey. Despite multiple nominations, "The Color Purple" did not secure major wins, leading to debates about recognition and the Academy's handling of the film:
"[40:15] Griffin Newman: But that's not like, you know, you kind of need to be like, you wouldn't... it's like, like, I wanted to, like..."

David points out the historical snubs Spielberg faced, particularly his lack of Best Director nominations despite his films' successes:
"[41:51] Griffin Newman: Don't you think it's funny that they're like, Captain America, what's it about?"

5. Reception and Legacy of the Film

Kanise reflects on her personal experience watching the movie for the first time, highlighting its emotional depth and the challenges Spielberg faced in adapting the book's intricate narratives:
"[28:24] David Sims: You don't have to say anything... I think this is a very watchable, affecting movie."

Griffin critiques the tonal discrepancies between the book and the film, suggesting that Spielberg's sentimental approach may have diluted the novel's rawness:
"[37:06] Kanise Mobley: She really plays this scene so fucking hard, as does Oprah... But like, How?"

6. Comparisons to Other Spielberg Films

The hosts draw parallels between "The Color Purple" and Spielberg's other works, analyzing his penchant for blending entertainment with profound emotional narratives:
"[35:52] David Sims: But then it's also like, then what are you doing?"

They contrast Spielberg's handling of human evils in "The Color Purple" with his more fantastical ventures, questioning his adaptability across genres:
"[36:35] Griffin Newman: This is why I want to open the dossier."

7. Guest Insights: Kanise Mobley's Perspective

Kanise provides a nuanced view of the film's portrayal of black women and the intersectionality of race, gender, and spirituality:
"[28:27] Kanise Mobley: But I definitely felt like the book had more interesting things to say about the black community..."

She critiques the film's superficial handling of deep-seated issues, emphasizing the loss of the novel's intricate character development:
"[31:02] Kanise Mobley: ... it's an incredibly watchable, affecting movie... but Spielberg is too shy or maybe just too sentimental..."

8. Conclusion: Balancing Art and Commercialism

The episode wraps up with reflections on the delicate balance Spielberg attempted between staying true to the source material and ensuring commercial viability. While "The Color Purple" achieved significant box office success, the conversation underscores ongoing debates about representation, adaptation fidelity, and directorial vision in Hollywood.

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Notable Quotes

• "[00:34] David Sims: I failed to identify one that I could do without getting arrested."
  — David humorously reflects on attempting to cover memorable quotes from the movie.

• "[26:44] Kanise Mobley: I have never seen that movie in my life."
  — Kanise expresses surprise at her initial unfamiliarity with such a culturally significant film.

• "[37:33] David Sims: And, like, what you're saying the thing of, like, the dynamic of the shaving. Right."
  — David discusses the pivotal shaving scene and its emotional impact.

• "[40:52] Kanise Mobley: She's gonna do Theodore Rex, right?"
  — Kanise humorously predicts the character's future endeavors based on the film's portrayal.

• "[43:53] Griffin Newman: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no..."
  — Griffin responds to a humorous interlude, showcasing the relaxed nature of the discussion.

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Final Thoughts

"The Color Purple" remains a complex piece in Spielberg's filmography, balancing commercial success with critical and cultural challenges. This episode of "Blank Check with Griffin & David" offers a comprehensive exploration of the film's multifaceted legacy, enriched by personal anecdotes and thoughtful critique from both the hosts and guest Kanise Mobley.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the shadow is Blackjack.

[David Sims]

It's about life, it's about love, it's about podcasts. Now, this movie has a very thorough Quotes page on IMDb and I looked through every one of them.

[Griffin Newman]

You didn't think you could really nail any of them?

[David Sims]

I failed to identify one that I could do without getting arrested.

[Kanise Mobley]

Cool.

[David Sims]

I did a really thorough scan and I thought about it from a bunch of angles, and I went, I don't think I should try one of these.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the tagline for the Color Purple, which you just did from the, in my opinion, wonderful poster. It's a very iconic poster.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's about life, it's about love, it's about us is such a, like, terrible, like, you know, stereotypical 80s movie tagline where you're just like, what does that mean? And then you're like, oh, so what's the movie about? And they're like, well, and you're. And then if someone described what the Color Purple was about to. They'd be like, what do you mean? It's about life, it's about love, it's about. I mean, sure, but that's not really setting me up for the Color Purple.

[David Sims]

That's all I. I like this movie, but the other reason I thought it was, I. I'm gonna go with the tagline here is, is that being the tagline for this movie on this poster, with all the other elements of what is being communicated in the poster is kind of the whole movie in a nutshell. Like, this movie's weird cultural object status of just like, here's the seismic book. It wins all the awards. How are we going to make this into the movie? Just get the best people in Hollywood and then try to sell this as, like, big tent entertainment? And decades of people being like, was that the right way to do this? Is like the goal to make it the biggest production you can.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it worked. This movie was a colossal hit.

[David Sims]

That's the thing. And I do think it was a.

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of, yeah, big, seismic, everybody went to see it kind of movie, I feel like.

[David Sims]

And it's. I'd never seen it before. This was the first time watched for me. This was one of my only Spielberg blind spots. And I don't think I'd been avoiding it to any degree, but I feel like it has a very weird status in his career. And I just kept last night Watching it and going, it's so bizarre that Steven Spielberg made this.

[Griffin Newman]

That is true.

[David Sims]

And we'll talk about it. What's weird about it is in every single solitary second, it both so feels like a Steven Spielberg movie and doesn't at all.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. I just. I'm looking at the art. Do you want to see it, Kennise?

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

For the miniseries.

[David Sims]

The miniseries. This is just. I'm just seeing this now for the first time.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's good.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I look fucking hot as Indiana Jones.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you know what? A lot of people look hot with that hat on.

[David Sims]

But yeah, you know what? And I want to commend Pat Reynolds for also not photoshopping any of us onto the cast of the Color Purple. Another great decision. And what in what's going to be a very appropriate episode. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm David.

[David Sims]

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, such as making Jaws et two Indiana Jones movies, and then are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want. And sometimes they decide to adapt Alice Walker's bestseller totemic novel, the Color Purple. Who's our guest meesters on the films of TV show?

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[David Sims]

It's called podrasic cast.

[Griffin Newman]

That's true. That's not new information.

[David Sims]

And today we're talking about the Color Purple. Our guest is the great Canadian, great comedian. I started combining your name and comedian.

[Kanise Mobley]

Please don't.

[David Sims]

Kinese Mobley.

[Kanise Mobley]

Hi.

[David Sims]

The Tonight Show. Yes. The founder of Netflix.

[Kanise Mobley]

I am the founder of Netflix. Yes. We. I made it. I have money. So much money.

[David Sims]

You did. Your Tonight show appearance was in the pandemic, right? It was the rooftop.

[Kanise Mobley]

It was the rooftop. It was 28 degrees outside.

[David Sims]

Have you seen any of these? David or Ben Canis performs. Kanice is one of my favorite comedians.

[Kanise Mobley]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Oh, my God. And we've known each other for a little while. We kind of overlap in circles. We'll run into each other. And it kept coming up. Every time I would cross paths with you, you're like, can I argue a point of something that you and David said on the podcast? That drove me crazy. I start increasingly finding out that you are a listener.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Through your, like, objections to how did.

[Griffin Newman]

We drive you crazy? Right. This is what I was.

[Kanise Mobley]

I can't remember. It's happened multiple times. But I.

[David Sims]

You will reach out and go like, good episode.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But then sometimes you'll come and be like, I Have an axe to grind. What the fuck are you guys talking about?

[Kanise Mobley]

So I was not a listener of your podcast, and then I dated three people in a row.

[David Sims]

This is the thing you said when we met. You said, I need you to know I have a problem. I keep dating listeners of your.

[Griffin Newman]

Someone just told me that her friend confessed to her recently that she and her boyfriend put our podcast on the TV. Like. Like, guess. Through, like, YouTube or something like that. Spotify. And then, like, sit and listen to it.

[Ben Hosley]

That's chilling.

[Griffin Newman]

Chilling. And I was like, are they chilling? Do they, like, knit or cook or something? She's like, yeah, I assume they're doing other stuff, but I can't imagine just sitting there.

[David Sims]

It's horrible.

[Kanise Mobley]

It's so. It was so strange because I didn't. I wasn't aware of this podcast, but then so many people kept. It would come up on dates, and I'm like, what is this?

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Kanise Mobley]

And so I started listening first for, like, the bit, and then I became a fan.

[Griffin Newman]

That's nice.

[Kanise Mobley]

And I'm a fan of.

[David Sims]

Well, a fan of yours during. During 2020, you got to do stand up on the Tonight show, which is one of, like, the. The thing.

[Kanise Mobley]

It's the thing I had been working for for my entire comedic career.

[Griffin Newman]

Did Carson invite you over to the couch?

[Kanise Mobley]

Well, the dead Carson invited me. Yes. It was complicated couple.

[David Sims]

Interesting wrinkles in Kanisa's circumstances. One, Carson long dead. Secondly, no one was allowed to be indoors.

[Griffin Newman]

What would Carson have made of all that? I don't know. Can. He's had this great show outside. Weird stuff.

[David Sims]

Can he set this great fucking Tonight show set the dream that happened on a rooftop in the winter?

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes. I was crying because, like, if it's cold, I start to. My eyes water. Yeah. And so I had to, like, constantly figure out ways to, like, wipe tears away from my face while still telling my jokes and, like, being filmed. It was a. It was an experience that I'll never forget.

[David Sims]

But my memory is that it's like, Fallon at home, right? Like, in his cabin, and he's.

[Kanise Mobley]

Fallon's in studio. So, like, people are allowed to be in studio.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Kanise Mobley]

The room are in studio.

[David Sims]

Okay. So it was when he was back to in studio, but there was no audience.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Yes. And half the guests were Zoom.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And he's in studio, and he goes like. And now can he smobley. Except instead of gesturing to his left, he gestures towards the roof, and then it just cuts to the roof of.

[Griffin Newman]

30 rock in again. The winter.

[David Sims]

The winter in the winter.

[Griffin Newman]

Yawn. Winter.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes. It's fascinating.

[Griffin Newman]

With Carson would have been. Carson was in la, so a rooftop. It would have been him probably even in February or whatever.

[David Sims]

Why'd that guy have to go and die and make your life more difficult?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, first he was a choice and.

[Kanise Mobley]

It was about me.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it was. Yes. I won't, I won't be there when she's performing. No. I'm retiring and dying.

[Kanise Mobley]

I mean a few people did it outside, but somebody did it from like a drive in, in Texas and that was like warm and he looked like he was happy. And then Mark Normand I think did it from the Staten island ferry. And it was very strange that.

[Griffin Newman]

That seems like maybe too much business.

[David Sims]

I mean, so under those circumstances, maybe you do want to just like be like, look, this is never going to be normal.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

So why not try to do the weirdest version of it?

[Kanise Mobley]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

That's why I got married in my backyard. I was like, I don't know when things are.

[Kanise Mobley]

You have a backyard.

[Griffin Newman]

That's for the invite, by the way. Well, it kidding me. It was the whole. The land. No, it was, it was my parents in law's back then.

[Kanise Mobley]

Garden. You know what you have access to grass and sky simultaneously.

[Griffin Newman]

I didn't at the time. I lived in a fucking railroad. I had a roof. We had a roof. But it was one of those sort.

[David Sims]

Of building rooms on the rails. Just to be clear.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

David.

[Griffin Newman]

His wife a Bindle Carson retired 92, died in 2005.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh wow. I thought he was dead way earlier.

[Griffin Newman]

Just lazy. What is this? This is 15 years just fucking cooling his heels.

[David Sims]

My favorite thing to talk about. Carson used to retire in this country.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And especially people in jobs that need turnover.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But you know, that need a bit of freshening up.

[David Sims]

So like that's, that's a huge part of it. Right. Just in general that doesn't happen. This generation won't fucking let go of their position.

[Kanise Mobley]

That's like Harrison Ford at 80 is Red Hulk or whatever.

[David Sims]

Second part of it. You know who used to retire the hardest?

[Griffin Newman]

So funny that he's read.

[David Sims]

Do you know who used to retire the hardest?

[Griffin Newman]

Who used to retire the hardest?

[David Sims]

The most famous people in the world.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. Right. Oh yeah. They would be like, I'm done, goodbye.

[David Sims]

Right. You're like, right. Audrey Hepburn, you know. I guess. No, well.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, no Hepburn. Are you talking about Audrey Hepburn right now? Because we're, we're about to do Always.

[David Sims]

That's her final movie.

[Griffin Newman]

She died shortly after. Then so she did not, like, you.

[David Sims]

Know, I guess she's not an example.

[Kanise Mobley]

Did she do an Al Pacino phase where it was just like, anything that paid her? She was there.

[David Sims]

None of those people fucking did.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I think that, you know, it was less of. There weren't movies like that as much, I guess, back then either. Right. You couldn't just be like, hey, put me in any Bulgarian action movie that, like, is being made this year. Right.

[David Sims]

Like, there are relevant threads within this, right? Like, this is miniseries on the early films of Steven Spielberg covering the first half of his career. His first big official professional directing job was the episode of the Night Gallery with Joan Crawford. And that was the example of, like, that's like an old movie star who won't retire. Right. And perhaps, like, didn't manage their finances enough to be able to retire. Slash needs the attention, but.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Or they're just bored and then.

[David Sims]

But you'd end up there. You'd end up like, you're a very special guest star on television.

[Kanise Mobley]

That would be nice, right?

[David Sims]

Or you, like, have a sort of, like, poignant cameo in a thing, or you show up in a horror movie for five minutes to be like, lend it some credibility, whatever. Right? There wasn't the sort of, like, cash out of Red Hulk.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But there's also the thing.

[Kanise Mobley]

Is he doing like, five movies right now?

[Griffin Newman]

The Red Hulk thing is particularly galling.

[David Sims]

We have maybe brought up Red Hulk in every episode.

[Griffin Newman]

Because it just keeps being so funny to me that they're like, there's a new Captain America movie. And I'm like, oh, what's it about? And they're like, there's a black Captain Sam Wilson.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Is Captain America. I'm like, what's it about? What does he do? And they're like, I don't know. Harrison will be rad. Right? And I'm like, what does Captain America do in the movie? And they're like, who? And I'm like, he's battling something.

[Kanise Mobley]

He's investigating or something.

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

He has wings.

[Kanise Mobley]

Anyway, did you watch Harrison and the Winter Soldier?

[Griffin Newman]

I watched every episode of it. Yes. That was early Covid, too.

[Kanise Mobley]

That was early Covid when we were watching everything.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll throw it on. I'm right. You know what I'm watching right now? Lord of the the Rings of Power, season two.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yikes.

[Griffin Newman]

Because I have this kind of seven to ten o'clock period where I'm not. I can't sleep, but my twin babies are trying to sleep. But that's when they're gonna be the most rocky, they'll pop up. They'll, you know.

[David Sims]

Bebop and Rocksteady.

[Ben Hosley]

Their names are Bebop and Rocksteady.

[David Sims]

Oh, okay.

[Kanise Mobley]

Thank you. I was like, Rocksteady like Gwen Stefani or Rocksteady like the other. Okay, cool, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm hip, so it's good to have a show that I don't. I don't mind too much if it's gotta pause it or whatever. And Lord of the Rings and the Rings of Power is that show.

[Kanise Mobley]

It's very plausible.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you seen.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes, I watched all of the first season, and then I watched the first episode of the second season.

[Griffin Newman]

And you were like, I'm finally. I'm beyond.

[Kanise Mobley]

When we're following, like, black, like, gunk, just rolling down a hill.

[Griffin Newman]

That does happen.

[Kanise Mobley]

I think I was a little out on that.

[Griffin Newman]

That does have, like, young Sauron. You are Bandit. Correct.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

How did you get that? You were doing a joke. But that's what that.

[Kanise Mobley]

That's 100%.

[Griffin Newman]

They're like, Sauron died, and then he was gunk for a while. Let's follow the gunk.

[Kanise Mobley]

And I'm like, millennia of gunk. The gunk, yes. Up a hill.

[David Sims]

Did Ben write this show?

[Griffin Newman]

Possibly. No, there's just. There's whole episodes where they're like, should we make more rings? And they're like, I don't know. And I'm like, I know. You're going.

[Kanise Mobley]

You're going to make rings. Answer other questions. No other questions answered. They sit and they think about making rings, and that's the story.

[Griffin Newman]

They have this, like, proto Gandalf where he's like, should I be Gandalf? And they're like, I don't know, man. Seems like a good idea. And he's like, I don't know how to do it. And they're like, well, you'll probably figure it out. Seven or eight.

[David Sims]

Is he literally Gandalf, or is he a Gandalf?

[Kanise Mobley]

He is literally Gandalf. He has visions of a thing staff or something.

[David Sims]

Oh, my God. Someday it's truly. My hand feels so empty. What if I had something? Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Did you write it off? It's just one of those things where people are like, oh, they're going to do a prequel Lord of the Rings show. But, like, you know, I know that there's a lot of Tolkien stuff that you can work with, but don't people kind of know, you know, the backstory enough to. How could that be interesting? Like, no, we'll make it interesting. And like, 18 hours in, I can tell you, they. They didn't pull it off.

[David Sims]

They give him a really straight hat and there's a scene where he decides to bend it so it troops.

[Kanise Mobley]

I think that would be like the season finale of season three, but not.

[Griffin Newman]

Unless I watch it. I will give it that, like, so.

[Kanise Mobley]

Much money on that.

[Griffin Newman]

It's an. It's an expensive, fairly, fairly handsome show, you know, and, you know, anyway, whatever. I can't even remember how we got on this topic.

[David Sims]

People don't retire. Harrison Ford is Red Wolf.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't you think it's funny that they're like, Captain America, what's it about?

[David Sims]

Red Hulk. I had a whole long argument with my grandmother, a woman of an advanced age. And gets very touchy when I get into conversations about, like, people need to retire. Right. And I'm talking about from a sociological aspect. And she interprets it as you're saying that over a certain age, people don't have value anymore.

[Kanise Mobley]

Got it.

[David Sims]

Which I constantly try to delineate, you know. But we had versions of this argument with Joe Biden running for president, a thing that worked out really well for everybody.

[Kanise Mobley]

So. Well, we're excited about the future.

[David Sims]

Totally. But I was saying this about Harrison Ford, and she's like, who are you to say he can't work anymore? He still has value? And I'm like, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying maybe he shouldn't make movies for nine year olds anymore.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I'm like, I want him to do whatever makes him happy, but I'm like, a little depressed that we can't let go of him playing Indiana Jones.

[Kanise Mobley]

Right.

[David Sims]

I was having this conversation when the last one was coming out, and I'm like, that movie's trying to reckon with it, but it is just like, he seems very fulfilled by being on shrinking. I'm not going to tell him he shouldn't play Red Hulk. But there is a larger aspect of.

[Kanise Mobley]

Like, let's step back.

[David Sims]

Like, Red Hulk feels like this inflection point of, like, we need to examine 10 different cultural phenomena that have led to this moment, that have led to Harrison.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you want to. You know what I was about to say? Like, it's beneath him to sort of step into a role. Right. It's like, this was William Hurt, and William Hurt died, but he stepped into Jack Ryan. He's. You know what? He's just a guy who's just like, look, I was a carpenter and I just. I do the work. I Show up. They tell me I'm Hulk. I go rawr. And then I go home.

[Kanise Mobley]

I want to see him more in like what lies beneath sized movies.

[Griffin Newman]

That would be great. That would be great. What if you married Harrison Ford right now? I might be freaking. I feel like we make a movie about it.

[David Sims]

About it a bit in doing this series. But you're just like, wouldn't it be so cool to see him and Spielberg work together in any other context?

[Griffin Newman]

You know, like rather than just Indiana Jones. They never worked together.

[David Sims]

It's just wild that they never did.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a true.

[David Sims]

And they remained like close friends. And they speak very lovingly of each other. And there was always like the rumor that he was. That he wanted him to play.

[Griffin Newman]

I want you to direct Six Days, Seven Nights. Sorry, I don't know. Just doing a bit.

[David Sims]

There were conflicting rumors about him and Lincoln.

[Griffin Newman]

Him and Lincoln. I remember the.

[David Sims]

I feel like both at some point maybe being the Tommy Lee Jones part, but also maybe being Grant in a smaller role. And then there's been some like kind of questioning of the story of David lynch ending up in the Fablemans. That was suggested by Mark Harris. But Spielberg said he had a different actor in mind. And people have been like, would that have been Harrison Ford for one scene? Like all of those are interesting possibilities. Obviously we got two great performances from other people in that situation and we're.

[Griffin Newman]

About to get a great performance from him in Captain America. Something something as Red Hulk. President Hulk. I just think it's funny that he's the president. I think every part of it's eight hats on hats.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

They're like, we've cast Harris in front of like that's okay. That's an upgrade, I guess. Or that's crazy. He'll be Red Hulk too. He's going to be Red Hulk too. Okay. And he's the president as well.

[David Sims]

Here's the funnier part.

[Griffin Newman]

They elected him.

[David Sims]

We're going to talk about the color purple. There's a lot to talk about. First we have to talk about the color red there. William Hart, Academy award winning actor, plays General Thunderbolt Ross like five times, six times over like 10, 12 years. Right.

[Kanise Mobley]

A lot of times.

[David Sims]

And is basically always at most the 10th most important character in the movie. And you're like, yeah, he's fine in these. He's like sturdy. They get a little dramatic use out of helping having him set up larger government stakes or whatever, but he's not that important. And then William Hurt dies and then they're like here's the pitch for Captain America 4. Maybe the biggest living historic movie star now plays him, shaves his mustache and turns into a monster. And the whole movie's about him.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. They were like, okay, we. We're thinking maybe we'll make a Marvel movie that's not Black Panther, but about a black Captain America. No, it is about the President. Be real. It's about the President. It's about Harrison Ford. Please come to this movie.

[David Sims]

What if the President was a monster and he shaved his mustache?

[Griffin Newman]

Just the sort of like taking your whole dick out too, right? Of like, Harrison Ford's in it. I'm like, okay, he's Red Hulk. And I'm like, are there any surprises left?

[David Sims]

None.

[Griffin Newman]

You just saw my whole dick.

[David Sims]

The whole.

[Griffin Newman]

That's my whole dick.

[David Sims]

Like, they tried KG about it for so long and now the trailer, just the tip.

[Kanise Mobley]

And they're like, okay, we'll just get a little angry.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, will he? They're like, look at him. He looks. His face looks like Harrison Ford. We made it look like Harrison.

[David Sims]

We made it look like Harrison Ford.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, boy. Anyway, why are we talking about this?

[David Sims]

I don't know. The Color Purple.

[Kanise Mobley]

Retiring.

[David Sims]

Retiring it is. I don't. How do I frame this? There were times I was watching this movie, I felt this sense of sorrow, of like, oh, this was a point in time where if a movie, if a book won the Pulitzer Prize, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Big bestselling book, right?

[David Sims]

Studios would be like, well, obviously we have to turn this into a big, serious movie. There is a cultural obligation and the public is demanding it. There is interest in this.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. This book came out three years before the movie like it was. It was, you know, book comes out in 82 by 83. It is an award winning, Pulitzer Prize winning, bestselling book by 85. The film has been released, directed by one of the big filmmakers of the era. Like, you know, Bang Bang Boom. What won the Pulitzer Prize for fiction last year? I don't know. I should know.

[Kanise Mobley]

I don't read as much as I should. I feel very guilty.

[Griffin Newman]

Something called Night Watch. Historical Fiction during the American Civil War by Jane Ann Phillips. Someone turned this into a movie. Dwight Gardner called it Sludgy.

[Kanise Mobley]

Sludgy.

[David Sims]

I just finally saw Nickel Boys, which will have been out for a while by the time this episode comes out, but just came out here pretty recently.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that which won the Pulitzer in 2020.

[David Sims]

This is my last.

[Griffin Newman]

In fact, that is the last Pulitzer winner for fiction that has been turned into a film.

[David Sims]

Okay, so that film is phenomenal.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, thank you.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Kanise Mobley]

The book's great. I haven't watched the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Terrific film. Book two.

[David Sims]

Movie's terrific. But I was just like having seen that in theaters in the same week that I watched Color Purple for the first time.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, man, you. You're real deep in black pain.

[David Sims]

Hey, look, I'm not looking for a round of applause.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, I'm not giving it to you. But thank you.

[David Sims]

We can agree on that. I don't deserve it. Don't give it.

[Kanise Mobley]

But yeah, you, you real back. Black people be suffering a little bit.

[David Sims]

A little bit. And it's, it's just, you know, timing, chance, whatever. But it was like, interesting to see these two movies like 40 Years Apart right in the same week and be like, here's this book that is like seismic. And that like, Amazon and MGM are just like, you know what? We're going to give, like a $25 million budget to someone who's never made a feature length scripted film before, casting largely unknown actors with like, a very daring, formal, like, conceit.

[Kanise Mobley]

I've heard about this conceit and I'm like, wow, I'm just incredible.

[David Sims]

But that speaks to, in that moment, them almost having the awareness of, like, there is no big tent version of this. If we try to make the version of this that appeals to like multiplex mall audiences everywhere, like, it's not going to accomplish anything, right?

[Kanise Mobley]

It's like the Help, bro.

[David Sims]

Like, totally.

[Kanise Mobley]

That's when it's like, hey, we need to make this a four quadrant thing, okay? We got to get the black people out the center of it, okay? We get.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Kanise Mobley]

Get rid of that.

[David Sims]

But even the Help is like, that's, that's more of a like an emotional beach read, you know, it wasn't like this is this like, humongous, immediately historic piece of literature that needs to be treated with respect. That also in the history of Hollywood was like, we have to serve two things at the same time. One, like, treat the material, but also two, we have an obligation to like, win Best Picture, make a hundred million dollars and Nickel Boys is just clearly like, why would we even attempt to do that?

[Griffin Newman]

Just do an artistic film, right?

[David Sims]

And I think that everything that's interesting about Color Purple is it, like, exist and tension between those two things, you know, and like being both better and worse than it should be and could be at the same time.

[Griffin Newman]

The really annoying thing is when I'm looking at this Pulitzer list, all the light we cannot see, the sympathizer in the Underground Railroad all turned into television.

[David Sims]

Right. That's. That's now what more often happens.

[Griffin Newman]

The Goldfinch was turned into a movie, I was thinking, but a bad one. I saw it. I. I suffered through every second of that piece of shit. Yes.

[David Sims]

But that's the other one I was thinking of in this sort of math in my head where I pin that my mind, and I'm like. I feel like that was the last time that a book comes out, is a sensation, wins all the awards, and there's like this feeding frenzy of like, which recent best picture director are we going to get with 20 name actors before that?

[Griffin Newman]

It's the road.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And we're taking like eight year leaps.

[David Sims]

The road also was like 10 years in development.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the thing. There's a lot of these sort of bestsellers that became classics. Cavalier and Clay. Middlesex. That like Middlesex was.

[Kanise Mobley]

Was made into something.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, what I'm saying is people keep saying, like, we're gonna turn that into like an HBO series, or we. No, we're gonna make a movie of that. And then it just kind of gets lost and developed.

[David Sims]

All of those started this way where it's like, it wins the award and it's immediately like, X, Y and Z have all signed on to adapt this. Here are the casting lists. Here are the this. And then it keeps getting redeveloped and it never happens.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay. Because they're like, not. I feel like that's why they make Night Bitch. That's why they make crazy rich agents. Like, hey, there are books that they're making and it's like, gonna make us more money. Why would we do this?

[David Sims]

Yes, yes, yes. There's like, there's less of this pressure to take a book that is important and try to figure out how to make it more functional as a broad movie. Whereas I think they're now, like, if a book feels like a movie, make it into a movie. And if a book feels difficult to adapt, then maybe let's like, slow our horses and like, rethink this. David. February. February movie preview. Okay. And I gotta say, it's pretty interesting. February we have coming up.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. What do we got?

[David Sims]

The monkey actually called the monkey. New film from Oz Perkins, whose Long Legs I loved last year, starring another one of our friends, past and future guest Tatiana Maslany.

[Griffin Newman]

That's right. And looks very, very funny and cool and scary. Also in. Very intrigued by this. Martin Campbell action or Cleaner with Daisy.

[David Sims]

Ridley starring Daisy Ridley, someone I've always had very, very calm opinions about on this podcast. I'm very excited for it. Feels like she's kind of ramping up her movie career again.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's the thing. Oh, and then there's the Day the Earth Blew up.

[David Sims]

I was gonna say, if that weren't enough, February, ending with the first original feature length animated Looney Tunes movie ever that I have heard is excellent.

[Griffin Newman]

And here's the thing, the debut blew.

[David Sims]

Up in a Looney Tunes movie.

[Griffin Newman]

What's awesome about all this is that there's lots of interesting different kinds of movies in theaters that you go see.

[David Sims]

And with Regal Unlimited, the whole point is you sign up and seeing three, four, five, six of those movies is easy and affordable.

[Griffin Newman]

And I find that once, you know, you have the Regal Unlimited, right, you know, sort of the option of basically like, let me pop over my theater.

[David Sims]

I have three free hours.

[Kanise Mobley]

You get more.

[David Sims]

That's what's nice.

[Griffin Newman]

You do it more.

[David Sims]

You do it more.

[Griffin Newman]

Go see the movies.

[David Sims]

Go see the movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Sign up now in the Regal app.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Or at the link in the description in our show notes and use code blankcheck to get 20% off your three month subscription. And then you're gonna be in the Crown Club. You're gonna get rewards, you're gonna build up points.

[David Sims]

Get free popcorns and sodas, 25% off.

[Griffin Newman]

Candy on Tuesdays, 50% off popcorn. Discounted ticket.

[David Sims]

Go to the Regal Crown Club website. And as I said, it's a little deep. It's a little buried in here. There is a section where you can redeem your points for old promotional movie memorabilia like Red one socks.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Follow the link in the show notes, go to the Regal app, click on the unlimited banner and then follow the instructions to sign up and enter promo code Blank check when prompted to receive your discount. And look, I'm just going to say it again, David. Signing up for Regal Unlimited or maybe gifting a membership to a moviegoer in your life.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Great way to support the show. This is. This is a dream advertiser. Yes, a dream partner for us. We want to keep this going. We think it could benefit everybody, especially the movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Anyway, the Color Purple is the movie we're here to discuss today. So Griffin had never seen it. Ben, had you ever seen it? No, I'd seen it. Had you ever seen it?

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, my goodness.

[Kanise Mobley]

Let me finish. Okay. So I am a black woman from the South. I was raised in the black church, went to a black school. I was certain that I had grown up with this film, that I had seen it so many times. There are cultural touch points. It's in like rap music, like, it's. It's everywhere. So I was like. When you were like, hey, Color Purple. I was like, yeah, I got that. I watched the movie. I've never seen that movie in my life.

[David Sims]

Wild.

[Kanise Mobley]

I had not seen it. And I had to be like, oh.

[Griffin Newman]

Had you seen, like, the. The musical or the. The musical movie or any of that, like, any later Color Purple stuff? Had you read the book?

[Kanise Mobley]

I read the book yesterday.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm the only. Oh, so now I read the book. I read the book long ago.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, you're cooler than me.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, pretty cool of me to have read a famous bestseller, the Color Purple, which I'm pretty sure I got on Kindle Unlimited. Wow. Covid. When I was just like, I gotta read something. But, yes, I have read the Color. Okay, so you'd never seen it. You had never seen the Color Purple. Congratulations on watching it. What'd you think?

[Kanise Mobley]

I am so worried about my street cred right now.

[Griffin Newman]

Only the coolest people, you know.

[Kanise Mobley]

No, it's like my black street cred, okay? Like, I could get, like, cards could be revoked. You don't understand. It's like a whole thing. And so, like, yes, this movie important. Yes, it has some of the people who have defined blackness on camera for the last 50 years. I think it is important. Quincy Jones did the mo. Like, the music for it and everything. Super important.

[David Sims]

And, like, produced it and was, by all accounts, the one who really got Spielberg to sign on.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I mean, we'll talk about it.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, I hate the music for this so much.

[Griffin Newman]

It, like, so bad.

[Kanise Mobley]

I was like, what the fuck is this? Like, why are you shooting child rape? Like, it's a day in the park.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, this is what we're going to talk about. This is the weird tonal thing with this movie. Absolutely. Yeah, we'll talk about it.

[Kanise Mobley]

Thank you. I just. I feel like part of me has to say that I love this movie.

[David Sims]

You don't have to say anything.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay, thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

You definitely don't have to say anything.

[Kanise Mobley]

But I definitely felt like the book had more interesting things to say about the black community, our relationship with God, parents and women specifically. And they took a lot of those edges off and then had this ending of coming to Jesus or something. And I was like, please don't do. No, no.

[Griffin Newman]

As an adaptation of the book. It's. It's a. It's a huge misfire, I think. I think all adaptations of the book are actually. I think the musical and the later musical movie also are bad adaptations of the book. Or those are kind. They're kind of just like adaptations of this movie in a weird way. Like, it's like.

[David Sims]

Weird, like, cultural reputation of the movie as an idea, which is sort of so different than what the thing is.

[Kanise Mobley]

I watched it and I was like, oh, yeah. Because, like, this is an important thing the first time. Like, a lot of like, oh, wow, it's about black women. We never get to do anything. And then, oh, so we just getting beat down and assaulted.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, well, look, the whole thing with the Color Purple, though, the movie is what you're saying of, like, why. Why was it made by Steven Spielberg? And, like, why?

[Kanise Mobley]

Great question.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Why, you know, well, who else would.

[Kanise Mobley]

Have they gotten to do it at the time?

[Griffin Newman]

That's what we have to talk about is. Right. Is like, right. Who is. Who is the project? Sort of what we. And we could, I think, Quincy Jones start out Steven Spielberg in this sort of, like, that gives it the biggest seal of approval. He's the biggest director there is.

[Ben Hosley]

Isn't Oprah, though, kind of also very involved?

[David Sims]

No, she's in the later version.

[Griffin Newman]

She's a fudgeing nobody for this one. She's like a local TV host.

[David Sims]

Like, Oprah becomes, like, one of the main creative forces on both productions of the musical on Broadway and the musical.

[Kanise Mobley]

Movie, and Oprah, like, she becomes Oprah.

[Ben Hosley]

Sure, but she wasn't Oprah.

[Kanise Mobley]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, she was local TV host. Like, she was the start of Oprah, but she was not a mogul.

[David Sims]

Zero acting credits, right.

[Griffin Newman]

I think. Yeah. I mean, and that's the. The cast of this movie. You have, like, is a lot of people. You're like, well, these are famous people who were not really well known at the time. Like, Danny Glover was, like, a theater actor. You know, these are not.

[David Sims]

It's just like this movie having lightning in a bottle. Danny Glover, Whoopi Goldberg, Oprah, basically, not existing prior to this moment gives it a power that is kind of like, never gonna disappear.

[Griffin Newman]

So this is, you know, it's an important movie. It's important that a movie like this was a blockbuster. Launched careers, you know, sort of displayed an experience that wasn't in movies much. But it feels kind of like first steps. Yes. On a lot of this stuff.

[Kanise Mobley]

Very first step and sort of very.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very tentative.

[Kanise Mobley]

I think being present is a step.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Spielberg himself would admit, like, he was somewhat cowardly in how he made the movie and, like.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Sanded out right to the deep end of this. Because this is the thing I really like Go back and forth on with this film that I think is interesting. Okay, I. I don't say interesting a good way. I'm like, part of what makes it a fascinating, like a piece of work to dig into is it feels like just, you know, we'll dig into this more. But, like, there is almost the chess move. It feels like where, when you read Alice Walker, be like, do I want to, like, sell these rights to anyone? Do I trust anyone to make a movie of the color?

[Griffin Newman]

I could probably would make a good movie of this.

[David Sims]

And then she's sort of, like, convinced by people in her inner circle of, like, there's a responsibility to, like, put this on a bigger platform. There's, like, an opportunity here to make a movie of this size starring women of color, which doesn't really exist in the studio system. Like, they're all the values of this. And Quincy Jones comes in. Quincy Jones is this figure for decades who is, like, deeply invested in, like, black Hollywood and opportunities and, like, trying to create industries and this. Like that. And it feels like he made this sort of strategic chess move of, like, a, if I get Spielberg to direct this, that gives it the biggest stamp of approval, but B, does that also kind of protect it? Like, he is the one guy with enough cachet where if he says he wants to do it this way, they won't push back on him, which is interesting as a strategic move. Right. Then the flip side of that is all the stuff that you're saying that Steven Spielberg doesn't represent well in this movie feels like, to David's point, kind of cowardice of him being like, I know I don't have a handle.

[Griffin Newman]

I can't hold that off.

[David Sims]

Weird thing of being like, you want to give him the credit for knowing that he would have fucked that up, but yet if you are the one adapting this material and you're not willing to touch that, then maybe you shouldn't be directing this.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes. Has he ever directed anything with even a hint of gay in it here?

[David Sims]

This is a. A theory that David and I have stood on for a long time. I threw out years and years ago. And that, I feel like, comes up a lot on the podcast. But when Steven Spielberg was the head of the jury at the Con Film Festival, he gave the Palme d'or to. Blue is the warmest color.

[Griffin Newman]

Him in the jury.

[David Sims]

But. Yes, but he was the head of the jury.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the head of the jury. French lesbian drama. Blue is the warmest color directed by a really chill guy. Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay, cool. Just Wanted to clarify that. Okay.

[David Sims]

A little bit of a similar situation at the time. Adapting a very big, like queer French, like graphic novel by a man who maybe has a weird relationship to women.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But they don't know.

[David Sims]

They don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

But my guess is it's like. Is what's Griffin is saying is Spielberg is watching this movie that is wall to wall sex scenes and lesbian sex scenes. It's just like, I could never do that. This has always been so impressed by.

[David Sims]

Is that when like filmmakers are the heads of juries of major festivals, see what they give the awards to, versus when it's actors or, you know, other people. I think specifically when it's directors. And some of those choices are really odd. I think usually you can pathologize it as this is the movie they can least imagine themselves being able to pull off, that they are in awe that there is something on screen, that they're just like, I don't know how you get there. And Spielberg, like gives it to this movie and is like. And by the way, the award is split between the director and the two actresses.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Because this couldn't be possible without the level of whatever. There's years of litigation of like, did he abuse the actresses? Psychologically torturous set, whatever. But there's something there in Spielberg, like 30 years later being like, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

[Kanise Mobley]

He chose one lady putting her hand on the other lady's shoulder. And that's a stand in for all lesbianism.

[Griffin Newman]

You also have to remember it's the 80s. This just. This just isn't in movies. Like, you think of a movie called like Desert Hearts, right. Which is, I think the same year, 85. Have you ever seen Desert Hearts? Anyone ever seen Desert Hearts? It's a totemic early indie lesbian drama. It's awesome. It's. I think Criterion released it eventually or what. You know, you can go watch it everybody. But like, that's like an indie. Indie indies movie that like you probably could have only seen in two theaters. Like in America. That's. That's where like gay, you know, romance basically exists in the American cinema in the mid-80s.

[David Sims]

Right, sure. Or, you know, it's. It's like Dog Day Afternoon Moon or it's like.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, sure, right.

[David Sims]

You know, but that's not what that movie is. Fundamentally. That's an element of the movie and that's a sort of sensationalist element of that movie that that movie handles very. Well. But like, yes, it is like kind of there's that degree of it. And Spielberg talks about interviews being like, look, I felt the movie had to be PG13. There was a responsibility to make the biggest version of this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

People.

[David Sims]

I want it to be communicated. That was a strategic decision. But the other part of that is.

[Griffin Newman]

Just like so crazy where you're like, how does the movie begin? It's like, well, you know, it's about this, this. This girl who's being abused by her father. And he, you know, father fires two children on her and gives the children away. And you're like, that's the start of.

[Kanise Mobley]

The start of the movie. Like, yeah, her on a bed in the snow, pushing a baby out.

[David Sims]

And you're like, what's the plot of the movie? And you're like a procession of suffering across like multiple characters until they get like a little bit of respite at the end. Which also those types of narratives which often make like huge, incredible, important books are really hard to adapt into. Like not even three act structures, but sort of like fixed time audiovisual narratives where it's just like watching characters go through the worst of it over and over again.

[Griffin Newman]

This is why I want to open the dossier. But I do want to say this is, I think, the argument for why this movie is kind of good in a way.

[David Sims]

That good in a way is exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

How I would put it. I mean, to be clear. All right, to be clear, I think that this is a very watchable, affecting move movie. Like, if you just like sit down and watch this movie, as many Americans did, it is hard not to be moved by. It is incredibly, incredibly well acted.

[David Sims]

He cannot make an uncompelling movie.

[Griffin Newman]

And like Spielberg, there's a few performances.

[Kanise Mobley]

Where I could have like adjusted some.

[Griffin Newman]

Stuff, but like, incredible. And like, you know, it's a, it's.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, we'll be well, wow.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, it's a, it's. And Spielberg's a good filmmaker and like, you know, you're earring the hands of a filmmaker and you watch this movie and you're like, yeah, wow. I mean, like, what a, what a tough time and what a, you know, somewhat, you know, note of grace at the end and blah, blah. As an adaptation. You can quibble as like a white Jewish filmmaker who doesn't really know about like the south or women's experiences, you.

[David Sims]

Know, like, yeah, but I was sad as a child.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think he's coming in there being like, I understand the experience of black women.

[David Sims]

Credit for not having the arrogance of that. But it's right the weird. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But the fact that Spielberg is too shy or maybe just too sentimental to really depict things, like, with, like, utter brutality kind of makes the movie, you know, it's like, there's a lot of movies that just lean into the misery and the brutality, like you're saying, and they're not really good. Like, that's often a mistake.

[David Sims]

They can become kind of numb.

[Griffin Newman]

It's kind of relentless and numbing. And you're so, you know, it's really hard balance to strike how to depict, like, oh. And then at certain point, I think in our culture, people started being like, like, can we just have less movies about this? Like, and have movies about other experiences?

[David Sims]

Why are we trying?

[Griffin Newman]

But this was a bestseller. This is a Salisbury story, yada, yada. Anyway, so that's sort of the argument for, like, what was helpful about the Color Purple. You know, I'm, like, layering this in caveats, but that. Right. Like, if you're gonna.

[David Sims]

But then, you know, you read like, you know, Margaret Avery is, like, incredible in this movie, right? She gets an Academy Award.

[Kanise Mobley]

Who's Margaret Avery?

[David Sims]

She plays Shug.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I like her.

[David Sims]

And then her, like, career completely kind of stalls out, and you read interviews.

[Kanise Mobley]

With her, like, Margaret Avery. Shook Avery. Yeah. Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. Her and the character both have the same last name. Cool, cool, cool. She was just like, this movie comes out, I get an Oscar nomination, and people are like, well, she's not big enough for movies, and she's probably too big for tv. Was just sort of, like, all.

[Kanise Mobley]

So you gave nothing.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

They were just kind of like, and I'm not even gonna have a window of opportunity unless there's, like, another black star who needs a wife in a movie, you know? And she was like. And meanwhile, I watched the next year, Danny Glover does, like, Lethal Weapon. Like, it's an immediate launching pad. Right. And obviously, Whoopi Goldberg launches into, like, an insane film career off of this.

[Kanise Mobley]

A very nice one, a really nice one.

[David Sims]

But it's also sort of bizarre to be, like, weird, like, theatrical comedian, never in a movie, gets her breakthrough in a, like, purely dramatic role in a Spielberg film, gets an Oscar nomination for her debut performance, and then immediately is, like, great. And now I make comedy vehicles.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, it's funny that she didn't get get slotted into drama and that she was able to go back.

[Griffin Newman]

Comedian.

[David Sims]

Totally.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But it's like.

[Griffin Newman]

But Whoopi's career is a one of one. Like, it's a very awesome career.

[David Sims]

Yes. Like, but, like, that's that's a weird example of like, and then, you know, Oprah, like, doesn't really act again for like over a decade. We've, we've now covered like half of Oprah's movie career on this cover.

[Griffin Newman]

Beloved. And.

[David Sims]

And we covered Princess of the Frog.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, wow.

[David Sims]

If you remove times in which she played Oprah Winfrey in a movie, it's like eight roles. And I think we've covered four of them.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we'll probably do Selma one day and A Wrinkle in Time. I mean, if we do Selma, we're doing A Wrinkle in Time, same director.

[David Sims]

But you're like this thing where it sort of launches people and also some people get totally stuck.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Margaret Avery should have won the Oscar and Wolfie should have won the Oscar. In my opinion. If you guys want to talk about right now, or we can talk about it later. If you want to talk about the 1985 Oscars, which are kind of a travesty. Like almost every winner is wrong.

[David Sims]

Build up to that.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, fine. So the Color Purple, 1980s, Steven Spielberg, Peter Pan himself. He'll never grow up.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

He makes movies about space aliens and Harrison Ford with his whip Temples of Doom sharks.

[David Sims]

Right. He's quickly becoming.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, he wants to make a grown up movie and it turns out to be Poltergeist. It's just another silly movie for children.

[David Sims]

And you're getting the narratives of like, is this guy holding back culture?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, he wants to make another thing. Oh, he's doing a movie based on his favorite TV show, Twilight Zone. Well, I'm sure nothing bad will happen there. Oh, he started a production company, Amblin. What's he gonna make with that? Gremlins and the Goonies. I'm serious. Like, this is the narrative, what you say? It's like this person is infantilizing culture with his childish genre obsessions. And like now Amblin is spawning like more Spielbergs like that will only, you know, do more.

[David Sims]

Right, Right. Basically right. They poured water on Steven Spielberg and now mini Spielberg's are coming out of his back and wrecking trap. But like, at this point, he has made four of the highest grossing films of all time, if not five.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. I don't know. Indiana Jones Jaw is an ET for.

[David Sims]

Sure was up there. Whatever. He's made like four of the highest grossing films of all time. Here's the other weird thing that we've been covering. Kinesis, Sugarland Express. No Oscar nominations. Right. Second movie, Jaws. Big Oscar film, nominated for best Picture. Not nominated for best director. Seen as a snub.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

For a film that was so culturally, like, seismic, then Close Encounters. Nominated for best director. Not nominated for Best Picture. 1941's a flop. Raiders of the Lost Ark. Nominated for picture and director.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh.

[David Sims]

Indiana Jones is the first time that they're like, fine, yeah, we'll give you both. But it's felt like they've been a little like.

[Kanise Mobley]

I did not know that that was nominated for Best picture, which is also crazy. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you like Steven Spielberg? We didn't even ask.

[Kanise Mobley]

I think so. I think I like Steven Spielberg in the way that I like Coca Cola or Beyonce or football in America. You know, just like that.

[Ben Hosley]

Kraft Mac and Cheese.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

Actually, I don't like crap. I'm from the South. That's, like, offensive to me. So sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry.

[Ben Hosley]

But no, I'm so sorry. Are you Velveeta? Then what's your.

[Kanise Mobley]

What on earth are you talking about?

[Griffin Newman]

She's saying that, like, she, she doesn't need to make Mac and cheese out of them. I thought it was just you had another brand.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm so sorry. I'm now with you.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes, I, I, I genuinely was confused when you, when the word Velveeta came out of your mouth, I was like, like, what is happening?

[Griffin Newman]

You gave me not a.

[Ben Hosley]

Gave me a disdainful look.

[Griffin Newman]

And I understand cheese. Once it was weird that I didn't.

[Kanise Mobley]

Know that Velveeta made Mac and cheese, because Velveeta isn't even. Is. Can we, can we legally call Velveeta cheese?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think it's the goo. Right? Yeah, it's vegan macaroni.

[Kanise Mobley]

It's vegan.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it is. I don't know.

[David Sims]

Maybe it's like the orange version of the Sauron goo. That's what Velveeta looks like.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's not vegan. I'm sorry, I take it back.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, the vegans are going to come after you. One of my exes who listens to this podcast and is a vegan, he's.

[Griffin Newman]

Going to come shout out to Kenises, vegan ex.

[Kanise Mobley]

You know who.

[Griffin Newman]

I hope you're listening.

[David Sims]

He should be fucking.

[Griffin Newman]

Should be. Sit down and listen on the tv.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, turn it on. You're a perfectly nice person. Just. You weren't right together.

[David Sims]

ET The Extraterrestrial becomes the highest grossing film of all time. Immediately. One of the most beloved films in history, I think is basically presumed to be the Oscar front runner. And it's seen as, like, a bit of a shock that Gandhi beats it for picture and director. And it's this element of like, they would rather give it to the very sort of like handsome middlebrow classical biopic than the movie that like made the entire world cry. Because it does feel like there's a bit of a. Like we can't fucking give Spielberg everything. We can't give him too much power right off of ET he can be.

[Griffin Newman]

The box office king, but that doesn't mean he gets Oscars automatically. And it is foolish because indeed he probably should have just won his Oscars for ET Cause that's where it's kind of like, look, man, this is the whole package.

[David Sims]

It's all of it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you made a huge hit. It's a personal film. It sort of appeals to everyone. It's really fucking good. But no, Gandhi, I think Gandhi was the front runner. We'll talk about on that episode. But Gandhi was this, you know, the whole thing with Gandhi was like they had 10,000 people in this scene, you know, where it was just like, how the fuck did they do this? You know, I don't know. And they got this guy who looks like Condi. Where'd they find this guy? It's like, I don't know.

[David Sims]

Anyway, he rolls straight from that into basically a contractually obligated second Indiana Jones movie, which people have a divisive reaction to. And it's in that moment, that inflection point, that it does feel like we have this run of years that Spielberg being like, you want me to grow up fine, Like a slightly kind of like vindictive, like, I can do this.

[Griffin Newman]

So well, as Spielberg puts it. But for a long time I'd wanted to become something involved, involved with something. I had more to do with character development. I wanted to do something was not stereotypically a Spielberg movie. Try a different set of muscles, right? Sydney Lumet, Sydney Pollock, a couple of Sidney's out here, right, who he admires, who are more guys who kind of do a lot of stuff, you know, like, Right, like those are not filmmakers where you're like, yeah, they're going to make the same sort of movie every time. They make all kinds of dramas and grown up movies.

[David Sims]

And also like, you know, Spielberg growing up like coveting people like Hawks and Ford who made like six studio movies a year and they'd finish one and the studio head would be like, here's a book. Adapt this, you know, and it's just like, this is the assignment you're handed, like those kinds of assignment. Directors who were able to elevate the material, but would just kind of serve it and be like, here's another one off the factory line. And some of them hit. He's always had such a. Like, he covets those people and those types of careers and the flexibility and the range of what they were able to make.

[Griffin Newman]

Color Purple.

[David Sims]

You could see him going, like, this is my chance to do that kind of thing.

[Griffin Newman]

It's an epistolary novel as. As we know, as readers of the book. These two haven't read it. Guess they. Guess they don't want to, you know, experience literature. Alice Walker was letters. It's a bunch of letters, which, of course, is in the. In the movie that you're, you know, discovery of letters and stuff becomes important.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Alice Walker, she was an editor at MZ magazine and had written this big essay about Nora Z. Hurston that helped revive Nora Zeal. Zora Neale Hurston.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay. I was like, who's that?

[Griffin Newman]

J.J. you are legitimately fired for writing. Maura Zeal Hurston. Zora Neale Hurston.

[David Sims]

Double fired.

[Griffin Newman]

And I guess I don't like the book. Becoming a bestseller is somewhat of a surprise. It's a tough book to read. It's written in, like, a vernacular. The violence is very intense. It's very dark. It has lesbian themes, which are, you know, maybe less controversial in literature, but still, you know, it's a little out there, I guess, for 1983. But it is a gigantic bestseller. And Quincy Jones loves the book and gets Peter Goober.

[David Sims]

Right. This is the other part. It's a Quincy.

[Kanise Mobley]

His last name is Goober.

[Griffin Newman]

His name is Goober.

[Kanise Mobley]

We're just accepting that.

[Griffin Newman]

I assume that's how you say it.

[David Sims]

But Quincy Jones gets Goober and Alan.

[Griffin Newman]

Goober and Peters, John Peters, to option the book because he wants to do. He wants. Quincy Jones is like, I must do the music for this.

[Kanise Mobley]

Quincy, no.

[Griffin Newman]

Quincy. No.

[David Sims]

But this is like, the guys he hires, the producing team who four years later are shepherding Batman at Warner Brothers, are just kind of like the big, like, swinging dick Hollywood producers at the time, you know, I don't know if.

[Kanise Mobley]

Swinging dicks were right for this product.

[David Sims]

Probably not, no. But it speaks to. It's just like, let's just get all.

[Griffin Newman]

The heavyweights, and so people want to be a part of it. Kathleen Kennedy, legendary producer, also reads it and gives it to Spielberg. And Spielberg says he falls very much in love with Celie and is obsessed with the book and can't stop thinking about it. Kennedy wasn't like you have to make this or anything. But she was like, you know, thinking of it as a potential thing for him. And he said, look, I'm scared to do it, but I kind of love that. And Quincy Jones agrees. They had worked. He and Spielberg had worked on some sort of unrealized musical together. I don't know what it is.

[David Sims]

Not the Peter Pan thing.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And Spielberg is saying to Quincy Jones, like, shouldn't a black person direct this? Shouldn't a woman direct this?

[Kanise Mobley]

This is all reasonable questions.

[Griffin Newman]

Quincy asks. And this is a good line by Quincy Jones. You didn't come from. You didn't have to come from Mars to do E. T, did you? It's a pretty good line.

[Kanise Mobley]

It's a good line, but line.

[David Sims]

So ET Is not from Mars. He's from the green planet.

[Kanise Mobley]

Which is. Which one's that?

[David Sims]

That's what it's called.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I believe that's his proper name, that.

[Kanise Mobley]

The green planet. Okay, cool.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Isn't Quincy Jones the one. He did the interview with Vulture a couple years ago where he says, Marlon Brando would anything. You'd a mailbox.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And he. James Baldwin, he. Richard Pryor. And the guy's like, wait, how do you know that he slept with those people? He says, come on, man. He didn't give up a. Do you like Brazilian music?

[Kanise Mobley]

That's lovely.

[David Sims]

It is the greatest.

[Griffin Newman]

The greatest. Like, do you like Brazilian music? He's like, what? Yeah, sure. Anyway, I just like to think about, you know, be like, E.T. you're not from Mars and you made E.T. do you like Brazilian music? But the most important person Spielberg has to sway Quincy Jones is on board is Alice Walker. And so he meets with her and her daughter and her publishing partner and a literary critic named Barbara Christian, and filmmaker Belvi Rooks and the activist Daphne Muse. And this entire group apparently is like, we do not want Steven Spielberg to make this movie. Would be hilarious if the names I just read to you, we were all just like, steven Spielberg seems like a perfect choice.

[David Sims]

Would you sign our ET Posters?

[Griffin Newman]

And especially the Spielberg we're talking about, like, it's like later, the guy who made, like, the sort of more complex, like, you know, 2000s movies that he made. Like, you might kind of be like, oh, well, he's grown up and he's made a lot of different kinds of movies. We're talking about the guy who just made Raiders of the Lost Ark and Alien movies and shit. Like, it.

[David Sims]

It's.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a huge leap.

[David Sims]

It's it look, it is not a one to one, but in the 2000s, in this sort of similar quarter to what we're talking about, Spielberg for years came very close to wanting to direct Memoirs of a Geisha himself, right. And developed it and then ended up still producing it when Rob Marshall took over.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think gave it to an Asian woman.

[Kanise Mobley]

Rob Marshall, Yes. I was like, rob Marshall. That's how we pronounce that.

[David Sims]

I. I don't. I don't think that movie would have turned out well. But I'm also like, if he had. If there had been a Steven Spielberg Memoirs of a geisha in 2006, it would not have been as strange as there being a Steven Spielberg color purple in 1985, where at that point, he's like, branched out and tried a bunch of different. And some of it works and some of it doesn't. Whereas at this point, you're like, steven Spielberg's thing is figured out, and he's taking, like, the hardest pivot where. And this is the other thing about him being like, I want to be like Sidney Pollock and Sidney Lumet and all these guys. Those guys, like, do not have a dominant personality and world view that seeps into every single corner of their phone. They're both like, right. My job is to figure out how to tell the story the best you can. Right? And like, Quincy Jones is the person who I think kind of like convinces Sidney Lumet to direct the Wiz in the 70s in a similar way of like, this needs to be made by a major filmmaker. I'll produce this.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll have to be a dog to make Dog Day Afternoon. Quincy, it's not about a dog. Do you like Brazilian music?

[David Sims]

Yes. But, like, every Spielberg movie is just like, we understand this guy's brain, his stylistic quirks, what he likes out of his collaborators. Do you like Brazilian music? Like, the Steven Spielberg thing is so, like, codified at this point for better and worse, that for him to then just be like, I'm just gonna try to put it on something totally different, as far away from myself as possible, is so strange.

[Griffin Newman]

So Alice Walker's take in. In concert with this sort of group of, like, intellectuals and, you know, collaborators. What our experience had been with Hollywood and with what white people do to black work. All you have to do is go to an average movie where you have one black person surrounded by a million white people, and you see how artificial the black character becomes. And I just didn't want that. So she's anti Spielberg, but she likes Quincy Jones, probably because he's a fun hang and he's like, eh, just meet with him. And then she sits down with Steven Spielberg and she really likes him. Now, Steven Spielberg's a likable guy, I think, Right. And sits down, starts talking about the book, in her opinion, incredibly intelligently. Clearly actually read the book and cares about it, I guess. And you know, she's very taken with him and has confidence that he's the one. And she watches E.T. and she's like, this fucking rocks. Yeah, not joking. Like, she's like. Of all characters being produced in Hollywood at the time, ET Was the one I felt closest to.

[David Sims]

So look, and I also get there is like a level of like, emotional intimacy and sincerity to ET that for how much people are like Spielberg, the manipulative, the big sweeping emotions. Like, there is like a smallness in ET and him kind of preserving the like, emotional integrity of this, like, very delicate relationship in this big movie. That to her, I'm sure she's just like, look, there is a feeling being conveyed here that this guy knows how to create. And perhaps you could transmute this onto a wildly different story.

[Kanise Mobley]

I don't know if I want the feel good when I'm watching a child be assaulted, but.

[David Sims]

But I think that balance of just like, oh, ET Is able to go into places of darkness. Never as dark as the color Purple, you know, but like, it has this range. He's not just dealing in like mid tones. It's very different set of circumstances with this material.

[Griffin Newman]

Though she does say that at one point. Steven Spielberg later referred to Gone with the Wind as the greatest movie ever made and said he loved the Butterfly McQueen character. And she said she slept poorly for a week after that and. Right.

[David Sims]

Cause that has to be.

[Griffin Newman]

She thought she was gonna have to relay to him, quote, to make him understand what a nightmare Gone with the Wind was to me.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So. Right. Not like she's not like he's perfect by any means. She is, however, allowed to write the first script. Like she is given the first shot at turning into screenplay. She turns in after three months, a draft that gets rid of the epistolary structure, has more Shug Avery in the narrative. Spielberg likes the script, but it doesn't want to make it. I don't know. She submitted with an alternate title. Watch for me in the Sunset. Spielberg's like, this is interesting. But then brings in Melissa Matheson, who he's worked with before.

[David Sims]

Roadie T. Yes. And was married to Red Hulk.

[Griffin Newman]

Was married to Red Hulk himself. Walker rejects Her Spielberg brings in Menom and Mahes. How do you say his last name?

[David Sims]

I think, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

A rookie screenwriter. He had, like, a spec script called Lionheart, which eventually gets turned into a.

[David Sims]

Gabriel Byrne movie, but was kind of like a Kasdan situation of, like, Spielberg finding this guy and throwing him on projects and having him do passes on stuff. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Walker likes him because he's Dutch and is from, like, a part of Holland with folk speech that is looked down on by the rest of the Dutch. And she said that he really understood, like, sort of like, folk speech and, like, felt like that this was some common ground for them. And so he. They work on the movie together, but he has sole screenwriting credit. It is so weird again, that you're like, the Color Purple directed by Steven Spielberg, written by a random Dutch guy who'd never written a movie before. Okay. And so they have this script and yeah, you know, I. Spielberg's part of.

[Kanise Mobley]

It's so exasperated.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a little exasperating because he's saying things like, I wanted to bring Celie's story to a wider audience than the one reading the book. You know, the audience reading the book is more female. Like, you know, I want.

[Kanise Mobley]

We gotta change that.

[Griffin Newman]

I get what he's saying. Like, it's the only way he can defend it in a way of like, yeah, I'm. I can. I have a launchpad to bring a lot of attention to this. Right, sure. Why. Why does he get a lot of the same sex intimacy in Walker's novel? I wasn't comfortable going beyond that. He says, well, okay, so Marty Scorsese could do it, not me. He says.

[David Sims]

Okay, that's interesting take.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You saying, is there any Spielberg movie that has even, like, a hint of queer stuff in it? Right. There's that conversation and there's the bigger kind of tied conversation of, like, sexuality in Spielberg is a very limited spectrum, period. There's a reason why the Munich sex scene comes up all the time. That's weird as, like, the weirdest sex scene by someone who's never even, like, heard a description of sex.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, no.

[David Sims]

And you watch that and you're like.

[Kanise Mobley]

Did he, like, look at a diagram? And was like, okay, we're gonna. That's how we're gonna show this.

[David Sims]

But also that he, like. You're like, is that the first time you actually see two people? Any Spielberg movie, like, maybe. And it's like 35 years into his career. And even, like, you know, Marion and Indiana Jones have a more sexual relationship than exists in most Spielberg movies up until that point. And even then it's very like. And then she accidentally knocks him out and he wakes up with birds swimming around his head or whatever. Like, it's just not a thing that really gets touched on. You could argue some of this has to do with like these sort of original sin of Spielberg capturing footage of Seth Rogen holding his mom's hand and thus having a very weird relationship to intimacy depicted on camera. I do think there's something there not to psychoanalyze, but it is just a thing. He doesn't seem to ever have any facility communicating. And here is a movie where you're starting with a source material that's like the greatest source of trauma in this is the repeated sexual violence perpetuated by the men. And the greatest source of like, comfort and joy and solace and belonging is the like, sexual intimacy and like requited love provided by the other women in.

[Griffin Newman]

The book where Shug holds up a mirror to Celie's vagina and shows it to her and helps her understand her own body and whatever. And like that should be in the.

[David Sims]

Movie, the moment where she goes, oh, my God, you're still a virgin, right? It's such a profound piece of writing.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's the scene that Spielberg claims that only Marty.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. What? Why?

[Griffin Newman]

I assume he kind of means like Martin Scorsese makes like, like R rated movies and I don't.

[Ben Hosley]

I guess that's movies with mirror scenes.

[Griffin Newman]

He loves mirrors.

[Kanise Mobley]

He's with mirrors.

[Griffin Newman]

He knows how to make the. You don't see the camera.

[Kanise Mobley]

And he's got great relationship with vagina.

[David Sims]

Yeah. God, that guy.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. Super. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. But this, the like sort of. I have responsibility to make this movie translate to a bigger audience. There is this like. And as he morphs, as he stretches out, some of this gets knocked out of his system. At this point in his career, Spielberg is still like entertainer first and foremost, even when he is trying to make a more serious, considered adult movie. There are like, what you're saying, like some of the most traumatic sequences in this movie. He kind of shoots and edits like they're set pieces.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Because it's just how he thinks and he's so good at just being like, okay, what's the emotion you need to feel here? So then if the camera moves like this and I cut like this and whatever, then that gets that across.

[Kanise Mobley]

Did he have any say with the music? Because truly the, the music was killing me during this movie.

[David Sims]

It's also so strange because I Mean, there am I wrong in thinking the only two scores that John Williams didn't do for him are this and Bridge of Spies.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct.

[David Sims]

Right. And Bridge of Spies was like, he's getting older. He's doing the Star wars movies. He just didn't have the time. Right. And this was like, well, obviously Quincy wanted that he opt.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like in the contract speaking to.

[David Sims]

Him, he has something to. And you hear it in this score. And I love Quincy Jones.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Feels like Quincy Jones doing a bad John Williams.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a horrendous score.

[David Sims]

And it, like, it has these weird themes where you're like, that almost sounds like E.T. that almost sounds like Indiana Jones. Like he's trying to match the Spielberg movie version of the movie. Which doesn't help.

[Kanise Mobley]

Not in this story.

[David Sims]

No. But then, like Spielberg needing to be like, well, look, the, like root of all this movie is the sexual violence. So I have to find ways to depict this. And maybe it's not going to be graphic, but it's going to be visceral and it's going to be painful. But the way he knows how to make his camera expressive also is like fairy pop art.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then all the sort of, like, intimacy and romance. He's just like, can I reduce that to like one scene with a kiss? And I think that kiss scene is very well done on its own. I think that scene, if we took.

[Kanise Mobley]

It outside of the context of what it is supposed to represent entirely. Yes.

[David Sims]

I think, I think it's like beautifully acted and staged and conceived. And if that were the first scene that leads to the start of the thread of their relationship, whether or not that is depicted in an incredibly visual, graphic way. But at least it's just textually like, pointed thing.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

I'd be like, man, he handled this well. I'm watching the scene. I'm like, this is a kind of intimacy I don't see in his early films that we've been watching. And then it's like, and that's enough of that. I did it.

[Kanise Mobley]

No more.

[David Sims]

Aren't you happy?

[Kanise Mobley]

It's like, isn't that like, like the main way she gets any type of joy in her sad, sad life? And then we're just like, nah, nah, don't include it.

[David Sims]

David.

[Griffin Newman]

What?

[David Sims]

This episode's brought to you by Mubi.

[Griffin Newman]

Hello, movie.

[David Sims]

Once again. Here we are in March 2025, and we are so happy that MUBI continues to sponsor the show. They are a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the Globe. From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there's.

[Griffin Newman]

Always something new to discover with Mubi. Each and every film is hand selected so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere. And that's fine. You can go to Mubi, you can watch great movies streaming. Really great.

[David Sims]

But they. It's great.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's great. Fantastic. But they've also got movies. Movies which are in theaters and then stream exclusively on movies such as Academy Award winner the Substance. Might have heard of it.

[David Sims]

It's quite a big breakthrough.

[Griffin Newman]

Harley F's movie from 2024 was nominated for best picture, Best director. Best actress.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

One for best makeup.

[David Sims]

Yes. Somehow more have not seen the Substance yet. The place you got to go is mubi.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep. Yeah, it's streaming exclusively there. I think it's actually back in theaters for a short time because of the I Oscars. But you've got Demi, you've got Dennis Quaid, you've got Margaret Cawley, you've got this gonzo script, you've got this crazy, lurid imagery, this, you know, insane satire. It's a wild movie.

[David Sims]

Improved.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a must see.

[David Sims]

Griff's mom approved.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, fantastic.

[David Sims]

I took her to see it. I thought she was going to walk out and she gave it two grossed out thumbs up.

[Griffin Newman]

And movies also got Magnus Van Horn's Academy Award number. The Girl with the Needle.

[David Sims]

Have been eager to see this.

[Griffin Newman]

Nominated for best international feature film at the Oscars last year or this year. I mean, it's always confusing.

[David Sims]

A dark fairy tale about one woman's search for tenderness and morality in a cruel world.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's a true story movie. It's this movie about a pregnant factory worker who's trying to survive post World War I Copenhagen who starts to work at an underground adoption agent. And then some wild stuff happens.

[David Sims]

The Daily Beast. David.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Said transfixing like the unholy offspring of Mike Lee and David Lynch. Well, well, well, those are two directors we like quite a bit.

[Griffin Newman]

So you can check all that out. And of course, to stream great films at home, you can try Mubi free for 30 days. That's m u b I.com blankcheck for a month of great cinema for free.

[David Sims]

Mubi. David.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

I've heard a rumor.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[David Sims]

That you're British.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. I am a citizen of that country now.

[David Sims]

I don't want to paint with too broad a brush.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh.

[David Sims]

But I feel like there's a stereotype that perhaps British people don't have the most shagadelic teeth in the world.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, behave.

[David Sims]

That the teeth are not always that groovy.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, well, what's your point?

[David Sims]

Well, perhaps the UK could use some quip.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, well, listen to me.

[David Sims]

I'm saying what do you do to handle your dental health? Equip, you know, as an expat.

[Griffin Newman]

An electric toothbrush that maybe you guys have heard of it.

[David Sims]

I guess you're a repat. You were an expat, you became a repat.

[Griffin Newman]

Supposed to I'll always be an expat of the other place. You know what I mean? But there's this new Quip 360 oscillating toothbrush that literally revolves around you.

[David Sims]

An item like that that probably costs $1 million.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a bold, simple design, comes in multiple colors and is ultra quiet for a super clean without being super annoying. You know, Quip. It's a very simple service where you get this nice electric toothbrush and then every so often in the mail you get a new brush head, some new floss.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

Anything else? Sort of, you know, fundamental stuff that you might require.

[David Sims]

Clean. It's easy. You're going to want to be saying, don't get in my belly, get in my mouth. You shouldn't swallow the toothbrush, but you should put it in your mouth.

[Griffin Newman]

I guess you could swallow the toothpaste if you really want to. Accepted by the American Dental Association, Quip360 is scientifically proven to remove up to 11 times more plaque between teeth compared to a manual toothbrush and provide up to two times more whitening on dental day one. And if you don't absolutely love your quip 360 return it for free within 30 days. Okay.

[David Sims]

It's so quick and easy to just do a quick brush to remove the stains that would be left behind after say a smoke and a pancake.

[Griffin Newman]

Now if you do love it.

[David Sims]

Brush easy.

[Griffin Newman]

Brush easy. Knowing that you get a free lifetime warranty for purchasing on getquip q u I p.com the opportunity to subscribe to refill heads by mail every three months so you never have to go to this store. And they've got quit perks, right?

[David Sims]

I love perks.

[Griffin Newman]

You'll earn credit back over time if you subscribe to auto ship. So listen just for listeners, a blank check get 20% off site wide and a free travel case and countertop stand at getquip u I p.com check free your mouth today and save 20% sitewide plus a free travel case and countertop [e-mail] check getquip quip.com check.

[David Sims]

Oh, behave.

[Griffin Newman]

Wolfie Goldberg loved the book and had written to Alice Walker saying, if it's ever turned into a movie, I want to be a part of it, even if I just play a venetian blind. Good line. So, Quincy. And so Walker suggests Goldberg to Spielberg. And so Spielberg goes to. Who does. He doesn't know her. He goes to see a standup performance along with Walker, Quincy Jones, Michael Jackson, and Lionel Richie. Cool.

[Kanise Mobley]

Just a regular show.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, Just hanging.

[David Sims]

Was this. Was she on Broadway at this point or was this.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. I think she did this for them. I think it's. I don't think they, like, went to see, like, she was like, hey, do a set for us.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, okay. I was genuinely. I was like, at, like, the stand. Just, like, her getting up comedy.

[Griffin Newman]

Tip your bartenders well.

[David Sims]

She's such a weird.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, well, and he loves her. It works. Even though she apparently did a joke about ET Getting hooked on dope in an Oakland jail. Spielberg is very charmed. And despite the rumor that Diana Ross was the first choice for this, which is insane to think about, he's like, I want you to do it. Whoopi is like, I don't know if I'm up to that. What if I played Sophia, you know, sort of supporting character. Oprah, you know, Oprah's character. And then eventually she's like, wait, Steven Spielberg's trying to cast me as the lead in this movie? Like, what is. I should just do what he says? Like, I'll say, yes, absolutely right.

[David Sims]

And, I mean, Whoopi is astonishing in this movie. It is, like, one of the great debut performances in the history of film, I would argue. And then launches, like, as you were saying, and we'll unpack one of the most unique careers in entertainment history. Like, there is no parallel to her, really, when you, like, step back and go, like. Like, she has done everything at least twice, you know, like, it just covers all of it. But it is such an interesting. I don't know, I feel like this is what I was trying to get at earlier, but, like, here's this woman who's, like, basically, like, kind of synthesizing a new form of comedy at the time where when you're saying, like, she's referred to as a comedian, but she was, like, more doing character stuff, but would also do monologue. She, like, can recite jokes, but was very quickly doing, like, longer form kind of theater pieces and then becomes, like, a sensation. Has, like, this one woman off Broadway show that keeps Growing and growing. But I think there was, like, you read the reviews at the time. People go, like, how could you translate this? Like, Whoopi Goldberg is so her own universe. She is so complete. Just leaving her alone on stage for two hours. She can create, like, you know, an entire reality. What is, like, the proper vehicle for her. You don't put her on a sitcom, you know, like, what's the movie you make for her to then do this big swing to put her in this dramatic role that is so quiet and so reactive and is, like, 90. Just her face.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And is so underplayed. Right. And have her just, like, knock it out of the park and now be like, great. And now I'm Whoopi Goldberg, and I have a cachet. No one can tell me what to do. I'm gonna do exactly what the I want to do with my career.

[Kanise Mobley]

She's gonna do Theodore Rex, right?

[David Sims]

Yeah. I'm just gonna, like, follow all of my own.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that what happens in Theodore Rex?

[Kanise Mobley]

I think so.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Woofie. Very intimidated on set. Doesn't says she really didn't know what the hell she was doing. Said Spielberg and her had a bond over, like, movie nerdery. So he would be like, hey, do Boo Radley when he gets caught in To Kill a Mockingbird, and she knew what that was. Or, like, do Indiana Jones finding the girl at the end. Like, what? He would, like, reference things for her.

[David Sims]

And she would recognize she was as encyclopedic as he was of watching every single movie that would, like, air on television.

[Griffin Newman]

Do Gaslight. Like, when Danny Glover's being insane to her, do Gaslight. And she apparently would, like, be like, yep, I know what you're talking about.

[David Sims]

What's crazy about it to me is that, like, on paper is like, this is how you shouldn't direct.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey, imitate other acting.

[Kanise Mobley]

Right.

[David Sims]

And I think it is, like, to Spielberg's credit that he is flexible enough to be like, what do I need to help this person? Here's someone, Whoopi Goldberg, who is, like, undeniably as powerful a performer as anyone on the planet, but also has not had to act within this context, in this structure, has not had to play a role like this before, has not been on a shoot like this before, and he's just like, oh, you know, what if I point to a scene and go, like, you know the face that Cary Grant makes in that moment? Can you do that? She actually is able to replicate that in a way that isn't hollow. Can Access the real emotion from the surface level request of what I want.

[Kanise Mobley]

That's fantastic. Like, I know Whoopi Goldberg just as someone who's watched the movies and has seen the View. So to hear this stuff, I'm like, yes, she's cool. I was compared to her. I went to film school. I was the only black girl in my class. I had locks, and they were just like, you're Whoopi Goldberg. So they just called me Whoopi Goldberg all the time.

[David Sims]

What the fuck? You must have loved that.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, it was. It was definitely interesting. And they also, because I lived in a decent apartment based on a scholarship thing, they're like, oh, the only reason you would have money is that your dad is Sam Jackson. So I would. They jumped to Sam Jackson as a black person they know that would have a daughter that looks like me whose.

[David Sims]

Last name is Mobley.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, his. His last name is definitely Mobley. Right. They don't like to talk about it very much. It's all thing.

[David Sims]

Sure. Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

So to hear that she's like, cool as hell. There is a bit of. I don't like, reclamation of that, where I'm like. Like, I don't know. She is pretty cool. Okay. They could have called me Whoopi, but if they had known that. Not just because I had locks and was black.

[David Sims]

What I find so interesting about Whoopi is that, like, there are all these stories of, like, when she wanted to do Star Trek, right? Like, Next Gen is happening. And she goes to her agent and she's like, I want to be on Star Trek. And he's like, you're Whoopi Goldberg. You can't be on Star Trek.

[Griffin Newman]

You're not going to be a guest star on Star Trek.

[Kanise Mobley]

No, I want to be on Star Trek, though.

[Griffin Newman]

She's like, star Trek was important to me. Like, I want, you know, her was important to me. Like, I want to be on the new Star Trek in the.

[David Sims]

And they were like, that will, like, damage your legacy. That devalues you. You're a movie star now. You have Academy Awards, right?

[Griffin Newman]

You and Leota, baby.

[Kanise Mobley]

Right?

[David Sims]

Because it wasn't even like, I want to be a guest star on one episode. She's like, can I have, like, a recurring part?

[Kanise Mobley]

Like, we're not tying you down to.

[David Sims]

A contract on Star Trek.

[Kanise Mobley]

I know it sounds pretty cool. Let's do it.

[David Sims]

But she just totally was like, you know what? I want to do shit I want to do.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I feel like she'll do these interviews now, much like Quincy Jones, one of the best interviewers, will just say wild, and now has a TV show where she just says wild shit every day.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And in. In some ways, that does sometimes abstract her of, like, what's Whoopi's deal? She's just like, some kind of, like, woman who just says crazy and then, like, pops up and does stuff. But you're like, no, she's done everything. And, like, part of what is held against her is that she was not protective of her, like, prestige in that way. I think that she was just like, I don't give a. I'm gonna, like, host the Oscars. I'm gonna do this. I like cartoons. I like whatever. And you're like, she, like, broke 8 million doors, but in a way that just kind of makes it feel like, oh, yeah. And, like, Whoopi Goldberg is like the American flag. She's just like an object that we look at.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. You know, always there. That's always doing something.

[David Sims]

Like, I feel like our buddy Alex Ross Perry and I always talk about how when we were children, we were like, there are 10 famous people.

[Griffin Newman]

There are 10, right.

[David Sims]

It's like, Whoopi Goldberg, Danny DeVito, Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like, who are the people who could exist in both the Academy Awards and the Kids Choice Awards? Those are the 10 people where you're like. And a lot of them, part of it is just, like, they don't look like anyone else. They have an interesting name.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

They appear in all kinds of things. You know, they'll be in commercials and also, like, cartoons and whatever. Whoopi egoted Whoopi.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Earlier, an early guy.

[Kanise Mobley]

Is she in an episode of 30 Rock? Talking to.

[David Sims]

She is the one. Yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

She is the one. He consults. Yeah. But I feel like that's kind of. I don't want to say taken away from her, but people are like, oh, yeah, I guess like a Whoopi Goldberg.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. But they don't put her on the pedestal that she deserves to be on.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And now she's just on the View, and I feel like she says something out of pocket every day, and everyone's just like, ah, Whoopi's crazy. Who cares?

[Kanise Mobley]

She just cashes checks, takes a limo, I guess, to and from, and.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

Lives her life.

[Ben Hosley]

Is it the greatest stage name of all time?

[Griffin Newman]

Whoopi? It is an incredible.

[Kanise Mobley]

What's her real name?

[David Sims]

Sorry. Elaine Johnson.

[Griffin Newman]

Karen Elaine Johnson.

[David Sims]

Elaine Johnson.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

Karen Elaine Johnson.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, Whoopi Goldberg is an incredible.

[Kanise Mobley]

How'd you get the Goldberg?

[Griffin Newman]

I Think it's part of her family. Like, there's some, like, forebear. Although then she did the Henry Louis Gates Jr. Show, and he was like, we didn't find any gold. But she claimed that it was okay.

[Kanise Mobley]

We can all claim stuff. Let's do it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. She got Whoopi from whoopee cushions. Like, genuinely. Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

What? Yeah, that's lovely.

[Griffin Newman]

Love Whoopi. Danny Glover cast largely. He was in. He's in pieces in the. Places in the Heart.

[David Sims]

Heart.

[Griffin Newman]

Pieces in the Heart. That's a weird movie. Places in the Heart. Spielberg loved that performance. Casting without an audition. Glover says Glover grew up in San Francisco, not in the south, but he was the first generation in his family to do so. His family's from Georgia. He would spend every summer going back to Georgia working on the farm. So he, like, was like. I very much understood, like, this environment, you know, this kind of childhood. Quincy Jones.

[David Sims]

I. I just want to say it. 84 places in the harp in 1985. Witness, Silverado and the Color Purple.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the villain and Witness.

[David Sims]

But he basically, like, 1979 inmate and escape from Alcatraz, you know, like three or four titles you've never heard of. And then it's like he's in one movie that, like, gets on the Oscar radar. The next year, he's in three big movies. Two years after that, Lethal Weapon. It's like, it was this incredible.

[Kanise Mobley]

He's nice.

[David Sims]

He's 39 in this.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, he'd been around mostly a stage actor, but mostly a stage actor. And then it's just sort of immediately identified as, like. Yeah, movie star.

[Griffin Newman]

I guess. So he's a very interesting movie star in a way. I love Danny Glover. He's one of my favorite.

[Kanise Mobley]

So wait, when he was too old for this, he was only, like, 43.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not that old.

[David Sims]

He's young. Yeah, he's like 41.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, God. But he looks too old for this. You believe it.

[Kanise Mobley]

You do.

[Griffin Newman]

It's great acting.

[David Sims]

The last 30 minutes of this movie, when they, like, shave his hairline back, you just see that execs were like, oh, my God, we could make this guy retirement age.

[Griffin Newman]

Too old for some it.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

We'll have to figure out what it is.

[David Sims]

Be young enough to actually do the action scenes, but play that he's fueled.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, also, when they age him up in this movie, you're just like, this looks like Danny Glover 2000.

[David Sims]

Genuinely.

[Kanise Mobley]

I was like Royal Tenenbaum's Danny Glover right there.

[Griffin Newman]

Boom. So funny. In the Royal 10 bombs.

[David Sims]

But, like, there's the famous.

[Griffin Newman]

Calls him Coltrane. Makes me laugh so much.

[David Sims]

He's so good.

[Griffin Newman]

He's really funny.

[David Sims]

This the Max von Sydo thing where the makeup was so good in the Exorcist that he was like, it fucked up my career because people thought I was 80s, right?

[Kanise Mobley]

He was 80 for a long time. To me, yes, totally.

[David Sims]

And he was like. And then when he caught up to looking as old as he looked in the actors, like, let's get you back. Danny Glover, weirdly, had the opposite thing where they, like, age him up in this. And people were like, wait, do you want to play older all the time?

[Kanise Mobley]

That's the dream.

[Griffin Newman]

Quincy Jones, at one point, is catching a red eye for some. He's in Chicago, ok? He turns on the tv. He sees a show called AM Chicago, has an exciting young new host. Oprah Winfrey calls Steven Spielberg. Quincy Jones really was kind of wild for this one because all of his choices make sense. You're like, yeah. Whoopi Goldberg, Danny Glover, Oprah Winfrey. These are great choices. But imagine being Steven Spielberg, being like, all right, how do I get my handle on this black lesbian drama set in the South? And Quincy Joe's like, I'm watching this local Chicago tv, like, fucking daytime host. She's perfect for Sofia. We're going to cast her. Spielberg's just like, okay. She'd never been in a movie. She found being in a movie really difficult. Like, she. It's not like Oprah Winfrey was, like, a natural.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, you know, and she talks about, like, how tough.

[Kanise Mobley]

I also think, like, hey, your role is like being insulted, being hit and.

[Griffin Newman]

Then being, like, catatonic.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, you know, all. All how much.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, the makeup in this movie is the way, like, they make the. The son of Danny Glover. Harpo.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, Harpo. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Oprah's production company.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes, yes. She ran with that. His makeup, when he's supposed to be old, made me laugh out loud at the movie. And I'm like, that is not what I'm supposed to be getting from this scene. But they put a bald cap on him where you can see the seam of it. They just like, kind of put wrinkles around their eyes to be like, look, they're old now. And I'm like, like. But they're.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, okay, so he looks insane.

[Kanise Mobley]

He looks truly. I'm like, who put this wig on this man? Did they hire people that knew how to do wigs? Like, you're like, what?

[David Sims]

Well, and like, the Oprah makeup looks very like Lawn Chaney. Like, it looks very like. You know, I. I understand we are trying to, like, show the lasting physical scars of this woman's, like, experience and the indignity she suffered. But it is, like, stylized in a way that looks universal monster.

[Kanise Mobley]

Like, the substance. That's what I got from her eye prosthetics in that movie.

[David Sims]

But she does this. She does Noble Son and then doesn't do a movie until Beloved, Sorry, Native Son and then becomes.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, she becomes Oprah.

[David Sims]

Right, Becomes Oprah. But also, it's just like, movies are tough. I don't need to do that again.

[Kanise Mobley]

Beloved, where it's also black Pain.

[David Sims]

That's what's. It's. I find it interesting, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Beloved is her doing the Quincy Jones thing. It's her making kind of the same decision of, like, I. I think I can get this book, is so important book made into a movie.

[David Sims]

I can protect someone else from fucking up.

[Griffin Newman]

My choice is this incredibly talented white director who's not, like, again, connected to the south or, like, you know, this sort of heritage or.

[David Sims]

But he's got empathy in space, but.

[Griffin Newman]

He'S a good director. And it's like, the result, again, is a movie where you're like, this is well made. It's not bad.

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

But why was this the choice?

[Kanise Mobley]

Would anyone rewatch Beloved?

[Griffin Newman]

Would you rewatch? Yeah, I guess you could. It's a really interesting.

[Kanise Mobley]

I saw it in theaters, like, my. The. This is important, right?

[Griffin Newman]

We're gonna go see these.

[Kanise Mobley]

And so it was like, jesus, do you hate me?

[Griffin Newman]

Why?

[David Sims]

And it is.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, you must have been, like, 12 years old.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, I know. That's. I'm like, is my mom mad at me? Did the directors hate me?

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Kanise Mobley]

Does society dislike black women? Which is a different thing. But, Jesus Christ, this is a lot.

[David Sims]

It is a fascinating counterpoint to this movie where it's sort of like what you were saying, David, of, like, that's a movie that is, like, okay, we're not going to do, like, magical uplift.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And instead, it is just, like, punishing and, like, very difficult to watch. And thus, like, has no cultural permanence whatsoever. Like, did not translate. But then she, like, is so burned out by that experience that she's like, I'm not going to do a movie again. It's just fascinating to me that it's like Oprah just, like, quietly gets an Academy Award nomination for her first performance ever, then becomes the most, like, important woman in media. Right. Becomes, I think, like, the first black Billionaire, period. And then, like, over 10 years later is like, it is my responsibility to try to do this again.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And it was like, this sucks. I hate.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. Why are we doing this?

[David Sims]

I don't want to do the same.

[Kanise Mobley]

Good for her.

[David Sims]

And it was like, oh, it's weird. Oprah was in, like, two movies, and then the last decade, she's just, like, quietly, like, done a handful of films.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. She started acting again. She's really good.

[David Sims]

She's really good. She's probably a bit easier, though, like, and smaller roles.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Well, hey, Wrinkle in Time is a really big role. She's like a giant. Have you seen that movie?

[Kanise Mobley]

No.

[David Sims]

Tallest Oprah you'll ever see in your tallest Oprah.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay.

[David Sims]

The tallest Oprah you'll ever see.

[Griffin Newman]

They're totally talking, I don't know, like, 800ft. 800 giants.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Like a true giant.

[Kanise Mobley]

So taller than a skyscraper.

[Griffin Newman]

Spielberg and Jones want Tina Turner to play Sug Avery. That's the only person, like, top choice that they don't get.

[Kanise Mobley]

Fascinating.

[Griffin Newman]

Tina Turner is like, I fucking lived that shit, bro. I fucking was married to Ike Turner. I do not want to make that movie. I'm gonna go make Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. Literally.

[David Sims]

You know what?

[Griffin Newman]

I haven't lived Thunderdome. Yeah.

[David Sims]

That's a new experience for me.

[Griffin Newman]

Spielberg, apparently. Spielberg had worked with Margaret Avery. She's in something evil and, like, apparently didn't even remember, and no one was even that excited about her. But, I mean, it's an incredible.

[David Sims]

Mostly a TV theater actor at this point. Yeah. Is incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

Movie cost about $15 million. Spielberg accepted only a minimum salary.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yay. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It was shot in North Carolina, where you grew up. It was set in Georgia, of course, to Color Purple set in Georgia, but as Kenny's told me, it was shot in North Carolina. And she's right. And it was heavily storyboarded, just like all Spielberg movies. Alan Daviao, who shot ET Shot it. His first instinct was to shoot in black and white. Then he was like, I'm being a coward. That's me sugarcoating it more. That's me fearing the violence even more. Trying to distance it even more. So he doesn't do that.

[David Sims]

So here's an interesting thing he talks a lot about on Schindler's List, which is the movie where he succeeds finally in making the transition that he's trying to make on this film. And on Empire of the sun, right. Where he's like, how do I make the movie that is actually staring reality in the Face that isn't caught up in a movie for run up candy coating. Yes. And is dealing with serious issues and pain and what have you, not entertainment, first and foremost. In that movie, he talks about that he was like, I had to let go of story storyboards. I didn't want to be, like, mathematical about it. I would, like, show up and I would feel it out. And it was improvisatory. And I think part of that for him was that he was just like, I need to be connected to the actual emotions of this thing, which is not a thing he lived through himself, but a thing that happened to his people that he perhaps has a greater psychic connection to. And he's filming in similar spaces and all of this. Right. It's exactly what you're saying of like. Like Spielberg sitting down with the script and being like, okay, so how do we shoot the father raping.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And like, storyboarding. It might be like the beginning of the problem where even if he's kind of making good choices, thinking about it that clinically.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Which isn't to say he shouldn't have, like, planned out shots.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. Yes. But where it's like, this will match this exactly. Versus what is the feeling? How do we best portray what is happening in front of the camera?

[David Sims]

Spielberg's problem at this point in his time is that he is too entertaining and he is too good of a communicator. Right. It is what makes people go, like, is this all just, like, manipulative? When people are starting to tire of the Spielberg thing of, like, you know what? He's got to pull up the heartstrings every time. He's got to have the moments of awe and wonder and all this sort of that, like, he, He. It is so hard for him to not turn something into a moment of, like, grand, ecstatic movie magic that he does need to, like, figure out how to, I don't know, like, tie his arms behind his back to some degree.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And be more of an interpreter. Talk about the movie versus an orchestrator. Yeah. I mean, it just. It comes up right from the beginning because you're, like, thrown into the deep end of, like, some of the most extreme in the movie.

[Kanise Mobley]

Like, to me, the thing that stuck with me most is this cheesy, sappy score, plus the voiceover narration, which I'm like, I don't know. Do they have to make her sound like that? Whatever. Okay. But that over blood baby being taken, a dad saying, don't tell your mom like that, it just.

[David Sims]

You have so much so quickly There is a real, like, you know, this character lives in hell, and we're like, speed running through it.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And even to a degree, you know that it's like this movie stars Whoopi Goldberg. We're still on the young version of her. It takes 30 minutes, I think I want to say, before you get to Whoopi. And so you're just like, man, there's like, a lot to get through.

[Kanise Mobley]

That little girl goes through a lot.

[David Sims]

Of pain a ton before the movie's really gonna kind of begin in earnest. And it's. Yes. It's the kind of thing that in a book, you can take longer to sort of live with. And this movie needs to, like, get.

[Kanise Mobley]

Through it real quick.

[David Sims]

Barrel through, which it just is. Is overwhelming. But, yes, you set up this woman. Her abusive father has fathered two children with her, has taken them away, and then is basically sold off into marriage to Danny Glover, who is interested in her sister, not in her, who's, like, 12. Yes. And her abusive father is like, take the older one.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

She's separated from her sister, who's her closest tie in life, her only friend. Yes. Kind of her entire life. Like, her entire grounding force.

[Griffin Newman]

The guy who plays her father, Leonard Jackson, is very indelible to me, and I think it's because he's in Sesame Street a lot and Shining Time Station. He was a lot of, like, crushed as a little kid because I was watching it, being like, who is this guy? This face is so familiar. I really know this guy, and that's what I think I know him best from. From Big. Anyway, carry on.

[David Sims]

They're split up. There's this sort of, like, we'll communicate through letters. That's how I'll let you know that I'm still alive. The device of the book. But that's basically the 30 minute mark not. Not to say we're past all of that. Right. But, like, at 30 minutes, you get to, like, here's Whoopi now. She's grown up. She's stuck in a horrible situation. She hasn't spoken to her sister in 10 years.

[Kanise Mobley]

She doesn't seem to do much of, like, she doesn't have anyone she can relate to at all, it seems like.

[David Sims]

Yeah. No, she's just. It is what she plays incredibly well, I think, is someone who basically, as a survival mechanism, has just kind of. It's interesting. There's, like, the two sides of, like, you know, Oprah plays Sophia as this sort of, like, zombie, like, despondence. Right. Like, as much as she is trying to, like, turn herself off, to insulate herself from the pain of her reality. Where she gets to. Ultimately, in the movie, there is this feeling of, like, great sorrow within her that she carries, that she's trying to, like. I don't muzzle. So it doesn't overtake her. Right. Whereas Whoopi. It's almost just sort of like. How do I put it? She's just trying to, like, disengage. Right.

[Kanise Mobley]

She's shut herself off entirely. She's like completely closed down. Because it is only pain outside of that.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very sad. It's my insight into that situation. But there is this Spielbergian nostalgia for the childhood nonetheless. The hand clapping, the singing and the stuff like that.

[Kanise Mobley]

You know, visually it reminds me a lot of. What is it? Daughters of the Dust.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, an incredible movie.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. Which is visually striking. And it comes later, but there's visual similarities and it's just interesting to watch watch Daughters of the Dust and be like, oh, look how this is evocative of a whole thing. And there, it's like. I don't know if this is like, right for child rape. I don't.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Daughters of the Dust is an interesting movie to talk about because that's Julie Dash. That's like one of the first movies directed by a black woman in America. Like, that's theatrically because I think the first movie directed by a black woman is A Dry White Season. But that's Eusin Paul C. Who's French or whatever. But, like, that's how unusual it was for a black woman to make a movie. Movie, like, period. Daughters of Dust is amazing.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's, you know, it's an art film. It's kind of light on plot. It's very experiential. It's in this sort of Gullah dialect. So it's like, you know, it's. It's like not a commercial film.

[David Sims]

It's like a memory piece.

[Griffin Newman]

Julie Dash never gets to make another, like, you know, movie like that again. Really, you know, all that she should be making like. Or whatever. Like, you know, they should be finding Julie Dash's or using whatever, like. And. Yeah. Instead, like, when there's the hand clapping, this motif that Spielberg puts at the beginning and the end of the movie, I'm like, ah, that's powerful. That's getting me right here. But I'm also kind of like, is that kind of like, you know, I don't know, like, you know that it's kind of working me a little too easy. I Don't know.

[David Sims]

There was. I. I sent it to the group text, but there was an interview from when Hook was coming, or it just come out on 60 Minutes. That's sort of a. Like checking in on Steven Spielberg, the king of Hollywood. And the interview is trying to like, not. Not trying to soften it a little bit. But they're like, Hook doesn't seem to be like totally working right. It's like, here's this guy kind of on like a semi victory lap. But this is the last movie he makes before he goes on to his Jurassic Schindler year, where it's like undeniable. Spielberg, you did it. You won everything. Right. And it's him at this inflection point and they're kind of grilling the like permanent adolescence part of it and asking him about his like, obsession with childhood and all these things. And he's showing this big office that Universal built for him, or he has like 80 arcade cabinets and whatever things I can't relate to. Surrounding yourself with childhood ephemera.

[Kanise Mobley]

I don't see that at all.

[Griffin Newman]

At all. Not.

[David Sims]

There's a very sober, spare office.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But the interviewer asked him some question about his childhood and like, why did he wants to recapture. He's like, I don't have any faunus from my childhood. And he's like, you don't? And he's like, I just have no good memories. And he's not being like, you don't understand how difficult it was, but he's just kind of very soberly saying, like, when I think back on it, there's just like not a single happy thought. I just wasn't happy, you know, kind of fascinating. It's kind of fascinating because it feels like, if anything, that is the connection point he has into this movie is just like some feeling of like deep existential sadness as a child that was not circumstantial in the way it is for this.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Kanise Mobley]

Hopefully. Yeah.

[David Sims]

But like in that first 30 minutes, I feel him sort of connecting to something, if not in one to one experience, which is probably the thing where she's like, if you could translate the Elliot feeling any tea to this, you know, is there like some parallel here? But then it also makes it kind of odd when the movie is all about like the power those like brief moments of connection and grace have in her childhood amidst all of this, this and trying to recapture that, where it's like, is there any analog for that in his life? No. He ran off and he joined the circus and he, like, looked back and was like, and now I make fun.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I make fun in magic.

[Griffin Newman]

So you're saying that's why D. Stevens Voger is a perfect choice to make the Color purple.

[David Sims]

Nailed it. 10 out of 10.

[Kanise Mobley]

The only one who was making art that black people would like.

[Griffin Newman]

Or he hadn't done anything about abuse. Again, it's not like that almost sounds silly of me to say because it's not like, oh, we need an abuse director for this movie. We need someone to really.

[Kanise Mobley]

Who would you count as a. An abuse?

[Griffin Newman]

That's what I'm saying.

[David Sims]

But, like, sat on, like, five jokes I could have made.

[Kanise Mobley]

I want to hear three of them. I want to hear three of them.

[David Sims]

Polanski. I was right. I was that kind of like, territory. Yeah. John Landis. I mean, that's a different. Going back to Twilight Zone, the movie. Yeah. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

E.T. has trauma in it. Close Encounters has this kind of darkness to it.

[David Sims]

Part of Spielberg's thing is like being able to make these things a little allegorical or being able to make them sort of like. Like elliptical, where it's like, here is something like the one scene of the kiss that represents a sort of like, notion of a thread.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

That you fill in the blanks. And I don't have to depict it.

[Kanise Mobley]

Right.

[David Sims]

You know, one of the movies I struggle with, the most that we've covered on this show is Lolita, which is like another very bizarre book to adapt into a movie and try to make into a commercial studio film at that time. Right. And part of what I find so bizarre about that film is that they're like, we are adapting Lolita also because of codes and regulations, we can never once directly acknowledge what is going on in this movie. And it feels like this sci fi movie where everyone is like, talking around what's going on.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And it's like, why bother making this if you can't depict this? And there's this self censorship in Spielberg where he's just like, well, the romance I'm gonna take out, but the abuse I have to put on.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. You have to keep the. The pain in that. That's why people are coming to this.

[David Sims]

And I'm going to try to do the PG13 version of it. That isn't like inflicting suffering upon the audience in, like, a crueler, malicious way.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But then it's also like, then, then what are you doing?

[Kanise Mobley]

What are you saying here?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Kanise Mobley]

The book is saying something interesting about humanity and pain and recovering from that. And there's like the End has this recovery and this understanding of what God is in a really cool way. And they get rid of it if.

[David Sims]

Well, especially if you don't have anyone who's kind of like pulling her out and forcing her to connect other than in very brief moments, you know, and it's the movie. He is so deliberate as a storyteller that he is not creating a world where you can imply what is happening in between the scenes and fill in the gaps. It feels like he's saying, like, no, in my version of the movie, they don't have sex.

[Kanise Mobley]

Nope.

[David Sims]

Right. This just a shoulder touches.

[Kanise Mobley]

Is the love that she's getting truly.

[David Sims]

The end of it?

[Griffin Newman]

And it is gonna be. It's sort of old school Hollywood stuff. It'll all be in eyes and gestures and. Right. Feeling and emotion. And you can read things.

[David Sims]

Emails and the shit, though, like Whoopi.

[Griffin Newman]

Nails and Whoopi's really, really, really good.

[David Sims]

You get to the dinner table scene and Spielberg said that he like encouraged Whoopi and Oprah to improvise a lot. You know, that's the big scene. Because obviously Whoopi doesn't like, talk that much.

[Griffin Newman]

Otherwise we're talking about quite late in the movie.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But he knows this is someone who has that ability. And I think also to his credit, perhaps he's just like, hey, you know what? If we've cast this movie well and these people are in this environment on the day, they might find the language to say things that me and my Dutch writer couldn't identify at a desk. Right. Maybe let them feel it out and see if anything comes up.

[Kanise Mobley]

Was that shot? Do you know if that was shot later in the filming process?

[Griffin Newman]

I wonder.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, I don't know, like when they got time to like, jive in Jealous Community.

[David Sims]

I don't know. The thing I just know is that it was like a repeated thing that she has said that he was constantly encouraging her to improvise and go, like, anything feels right. Say it. And same thing to Oprah. And that scene in particular is like the most ecstatic version of it. I think in a lot of ways is the best scene in the movie. A lot of it's just that, like, Whoopi is coming in like so fucking hot. And it is so cathartic. When we've had to watch. Yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

She's got a knife in her hand, she's yelling and we're like, yes, these people deserve it. And I love, love, love. And this happens in the book too, that she's like, I hate you. And Your kids are shitty.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

That. That was like, I. Because we as an adult with no children, oftentimes it's like, hey, you can't comment on children, but I love.

[Griffin Newman]

You don't want to bring that. Yeah. The further burn of like, you know what? Actually your kids suck.

[Kanise Mobley]

Your kids suck, dude.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't like their vibe.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I love that we've been watching this movie for two hours and we're like, these kids do say. Someone would say it. Everyone in this movie is unbearable. And she just like it. It is. I think this movie would not have worked at all. Its success in its time, I think, hinges entirely on that scene delivering so hard of the emotional release of like. Yes. And now she's going to be able to take her life. Life into her own hands and we end the movie with a little bit of uplift. A smidgen.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And Right. A hope of better days ahead. And at least. Right. Being, you know, being liberated from the worst of it and all that. It's not like. It's like, yeah. And then everything was fantastic.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[David Sims]

You at least have an opportunity to try to make a better life for yourself at the end of the movie. Right. She is finally given a little space and a set of circumstances where there is a possibility to rebuild a life.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. And she comes back and we don't really get into that, but. Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I think it is to Goldberg's credit that she nails that scene so fucking hard, as does Oprah. As is everyone at the table. Right. The whole scene is kind of like perfect, but it is such a wild switch flip when you just have this character barely be able to string together six words above a whisper for the two hours leading up to that. And you have these small moments of connection, but they don't really feel like she has ever been given any space to be herself. Which as an idiot who hasn't read the book, I'm like, I understand the dramatic function of having this romance with Shug in her life that, like, excesses this part of herself that helps her discover herself that, like, builds a path for this kind of catharsis.

[Kanise Mobley]

I. I really like that. And in the movie they do maintain where. So they're all having dinner, which seems to be like a normal thing. And then Shug is like, hey, I'm about to leave. Btw, Celie's coming with me. And that is the thing that seems to open the floodgates and allows her like this. That Shug was like, hey, we are doing something that is not the norm. And now Celie's like, okay, I'm gonna curse all y'all out. I'm gonna tell these children that they're stupid, that these people suck. Your daddy sucks. I hope you die. I hope everything you touch turns to ash. I hope you have pain till you do right by me. Nothing. Nothing's gonna go right for you. And I love that.

[Griffin Newman]

I love it, too. And I love that it, like, sort of works, right? The implication is like, she has kind of messed him up in some way, but that. It's also not like. And then he fell off a cliff like a Disney villain and he was dealt with. It's like now he's still there and all this shit is still there. And, like, you know, it's not like there's some, you know, triumphant downfall of. Of the bad guys in this movie, in this story. Right?

[David Sims]

I don't know. But you have. You have the suppression of the letters, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. The big. The big violation.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right. The thing that finally breaks her above all else of all the indignities in her life.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. It's like he did a lot. Like, he. He beat this woman. But it's the letter keeping.

[David Sims]

It's the letter.

[Kanise Mobley]

That's the thing.

[David Sims]

And also that the letters, when she finally gets one, are like, hey, by the way, you won't believe the incredible shit that's been going on over here.

[Kanise Mobley]

I live in Africa, right. I'm doing stuff. Oh, I'm with your kids, btw. They are totally alive.

[David Sims]

Right. What a miracle.

[Kanise Mobley]

I'm with them.

[David Sims]

They got great.

[Kanise Mobley]

Everything's awesome. You know, life and how it could be nice. I've been having that. Good luck with your terrible existence.

[David Sims]

Right. Which, like, basically she gets this letter that's like, we've been living in a Steven Spielberg movie. Rules. I'm so sorry I haven't been able to get hold of you. I'm worried that things are probably pretty bad, but I thought you might like to know that we're, like, kind of killing it over here. There is something in. Rather than. It gives her this sense of, like, internal strength to, for the first time consider that there is an alternate way her life could go after you imagine assuming the worst, which is she's been dead for decades. Yeah, Right. And now to get this letter that's like. And then you won't believe what happened next. I found your children, like, all this stuff, right? That, that, like the betrayal combined with these sort of first, like, revealing of a window to another viewpoint. Yes. But all of that is internal. Like all of that is just kind of like and. And Whoopi sells it. But like an arc the movie has not really built outside of like an ecstatic 10 minute sequence of Spielberg lovingly like shooting Africa and Quincy going hard and like Whoopi just really playing the. Out of reading a letter.

[Kanise Mobley]

And there's one moment and in the book I feel like it doesn't go like this. But in the movie where she. She's being asked to shave Mr. And you can tell she's about to slit us.

[Griffin Newman]

Like maybe I kill him right here.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, right. And honestly, maybe this says something about the way I was raised in the south and like the plays that I saw. But it was like, hey, if a man beats you, you gotta kill him, right?

[David Sims]

You.

[Griffin Newman]

You're right. You just.

[Kanise Mobley]

You gotta. Earl had to die him and that's just like how it's gonna go. So I was like, I don't know man. Just kill. Like if the law isn't involved in you guys life every day like that I feel like. Like we should just slit his throat.

[Griffin Newman]

Like you're. Are you referencing the Dixie Jeffrey that.

[Kanise Mobley]

You weren't raised like that you weren't raised with an Earl had to die. We as a. Like that is a thing that will get friends together. Like you want to really cement your female relationships. Kill a man like that.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite version of that is the Miranda Lambert song Gunpowder and Lead, which I think is underrated. One of her best songs, which is also about. She's like, I'm going to shoot this person who hit me. Me so good. His fist is big, but my gun's bigger. He'll find out when I pull the trigger. Is the. Is the bridge. That's really, really good.

[Kanise Mobley]

That's very real.

[David Sims]

Country Western Sims. Over here I am.

[Griffin Newman]

People. People make fun of me, right? Like Alex likes to do hip hop sims. Country western Sims rarely comes out, but he's there. I love country music. Ben and Ben and Griff exchanging a little look.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's just Decade of dreams getting up. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Decade of dreams.

[David Sims]

New Lord.

[Griffin Newman]

I love country music. Maria Lambert, one of the great songstresses of our lifetime.

[David Sims]

These shaving sequences are so insanely well done.

[Griffin Newman]

Shaving is crazy shaving. Why do men. Why did men have somebody else do that 100%?

[Kanise Mobley]

Like, I don't trust people to like do my nails half the time. But you're saying you're going to hold to where my important veins and arteries are.

[Griffin Newman]

No one should have ever shaved until they invented like you know, a big razor when it was like, all right, here we go.

[Kanise Mobley]

Slice. Weapon for murder. And then you're just like. Like, yes. I trust often a stranger to just scrape that against my delicate neck. That's wild.

[David Sims]

But it's a kind of a perfect Spielberg setup, right? To have this guy be like, here, I'm handing you a murder instrument. And by the way, if you cut me, I'm going to murder you. Right.

[Kanise Mobley]

Like, but I could murder you first so quickly.

[David Sims]

That's what's interesting about it for me is, like. And it. I think these sequences work well because they are less verbal. And he's able to just do kind of like Spielberg, like, imagery and moments and looks and whatever, but the weird, like, dynamic of, like, you are holding the weapon, and yet, psychologically, he is still convincing you that if you try to kill him, you'll end up dead. And it's like, yeah, right. The first time she's sort of aware of the power, but wouldn't even consider it and is actually just afraid of the harm of accidentally nicking him. And the second time, she comes so close to doing it. But, like, the way he just constructs those sequences and the tension of it and it's like, it does. It feels very visceral. And it makes you, in a. The way that Spielberg can go, like, it is insane that we just hold blades up to our neck.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it's just like, there's a lot of, you know, like, obviously, Sarah, Sophia. Sorry, the Oprah character, the foremost example of, like, what. What Sealy is absorbing around her, where it's like, yeah, that's a woman who speaks up and is, like, you know, destroyed for it. Right. You know, like, she has one moment of sort of outspoken behavior that's justified, and literally her life is ruined. Like, and which is one of the craziest things in the Color Purple that it's just like, we're just gonna cut ahead to eight years later. She's out of jail and she's ruined. And, like, that's, you know, two minutes in the movie, right? Like, the. The leap just sort of happens.

[David Sims]

It's really. I had to rewind it just to make sure to be, like, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We're not gonna have, like, sequences of Sophie in prison maybe to understand what's going.

[David Sims]

It's like, no, no, no. Just, like, years gone.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then they say, like. And eight years later, the final indignity, they made her go work for Judith Ivy. Right. Which. The Christmas sequence is. The Christmas sequence. Is incredible. That's. They're like. There are sequences in this.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

That are so undeniably effective. He's able to, in this kind of odd Spielberg way, identify where the humor is in it, find the stakes, find the real emotion. Like, be this kind of like, five tool player filmmaker who's giving you a full feast and is giving you this kind of, like, old school, like, Hollywood weepy. I just. I think that scene is so beautifully played out because you're already kind of unmoored by the jump in time.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes. It's eight years.

[David Sims]

She's been like, holy shit. And we're just here now and it's over. And now, like, here's this woman who is unrecognizable, is wearing Quasimodo makeup, has a very different physicality. Right. And then this moment of, like, bringing her back to her family, you know? I mean, the driving sequence is fun. And you're like. Right. But then the. The realization of, oh, she's gonna get this taken away from her.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And Dana Ivy saying, like, I don't know her either.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. You're like, lady, come on.

[Griffin Newman]

Love Dana Ivy.

[Kanise Mobley]

I. She's in Sabrina, which.

[Griffin Newman]

The remake of Sabrina. Yes.

[David Sims]

With Red Hole.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, With Red Hole. Yeah. And I hate that. I love that movie. Do you, everyone?

[Griffin Newman]

Sidney park film.

[Kanise Mobley]

So many people have told me how bad that film is. And so intellectually, I know it is bad, but I will have a crush on Red Hulk until I die. I'm not taking it back. I mean it.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

Harrison Ford is a cutie patootie. And is it Julie Ormond? Yeah. She. I'm like, go for it. Sleep with a billionaire who you work for. Do whatever you want, man.

[Griffin Newman]

I gotta watch that movie. I've never seen it.

[David Sims]

I've never have either.

[Griffin Newman]

Because it was not like, yeah, no one likes it. No. And I watched it. No, watch the John Williams documentary the other day that was on Disney that you guys have referenced, I think, on prior episodes, which briefly references that score.

[David Sims]

Oh, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I guess. Because it's like one of his forgotten sort of sweeping 90s scores. And I was like, huh? Do I need to watch Sidney Paul?

[David Sims]

Kind of. Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

Just on a Saturday afternoon. Just give it a shot.

[Griffin Newman]

All right, fine.

[David Sims]

But the whole Christmas sequence, I think he, like, there is such a masterful control of, like, silence and body language and, like, him actually letting the performances sell it and letting it being a little bit unspoken.

[Kanise Mobley]

Just like the shoulders falling when it's like, well, it was nice seeing you once, children. And I'm Gone forever.

[David Sims]

Yes, yes, yes. It's. What's weird about this movie is like. Yeah. That he will sequence great over deliver and under deliver at the same time. And you're like, there is, like, no ill intent in this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. This is not a maliciously made film or whatever. Yeah, no, no, no.

[David Sims]

And there's also, like, no incompetence.

[Kanise Mobley]

No. Yeah. These people know what they're doing.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

Mostly they know, like, technically what they're doing is right.

[David Sims]

But. But like you saying the thing of, like, the. The dynamic of the shaving. Right. Yes. Like, obviously that's the tension of the scene, but it feels like Spielberg has only internalized it to a, like, movie thriller degree. Right. Which he's able to express well. But I don't think if he totally understands where that character is at that moment.

[Kanise Mobley]

For that to be like. Because it's Suge's running to stop her from killing him. Because she can tell.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

From quite far off, that this lady's gonna do this thing felt contrived in a way that I didn't like. Similarly to when Shook is singing as she's walking, like, towards the church at the end. And there's a sort of like, oh, but God, but God, it's a black movie. We're gonna put God in it.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right. Which. Yes. That it does. It does feel like.

[Griffin Newman]

That.

[David Sims]

It does feel like Spielberg being like. And. And this is important. Yeah, right, right, right. I'm correct in that. That's important.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, right. I don't think Spielberg has a particularly sp. At this really, ever. Like, honestly, even when he talks about that. It's Schindler's List. Like, he. He talks about, like, sort of getting.

[David Sims]

Convert Jewish, and he's like, her going through conversion later in life made me, like, relive it. And then I sort of became a better Jew in my 40s.

[Griffin Newman]

I. But I still. I don't think of him as, like, a spiritual.

[David Sims]

I don't either. That's the thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Whether he's had.

[David Sims]

Feels very cultural. It's about traditions, it's about lineage.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's someone who understands. Yeah. The power and the scariness of, like, family. And this is a movie about what. What a betrayal family can be. Right. Like, you know, all of. So much of Celie's family is, you know, hostile and abusive and against her and, like, turns out to be not her family or. Right. There's like, you know, Revelations.

[David Sims]

The Indiana Jones movies are the most explicitly theological movies. Right. And they're all about, like, fighting this idea of it. I think a lot of his movies kind of take place in a godless world. I think a lot of his movies are about, like, these kind of, like, inexplicable, incomprehensibly huge acts and events that. In a universe that refuses to sort of give you answers.

[Kanise Mobley]

I. When I say that it's like, oh, we were throwing God in it. I don't necessarily mean there's any sort of theologic ideology behind it. I do think it is like, like, black people church. Throw some black church in this movie.

[David Sims]

I, I.

[Kanise Mobley]

Does that make sense? Am I being insensitive?

[David Sims]

I agree with you. And I'm saying I think that's the exact thing that Spielberg kind of can't relate to, which is the sort of, like, turning to God for some sense of comfort or answers. Right. Like, to him. And I think it speaks to his, like, sad, worried child thing. He's just like, when I grew up, nothing made sense to me. Me. And I felt, like, alienated and alone. And what made sense to me were movies and TV shows. And so I made them. And now I'm good at recreating feelings to make other people feel things. Right. Right. And the way that there are these sort of, like, huge acts in his film, the divine interventions, whether they're like a shark or ET Coming to the ground, if it's the worst thing or the best thing. Right. Part of it feels like. And we don't really know what to make of this.

[Griffin Newman]

I.

[David Sims]

It's. It's kind of the world is bigger than you can understand. Right. Light. There are inexplicably good and bad things, but there's no sort of, like, guiding Light.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

We struggle to find answers. And anyone who tries to, like, pursue them is maybe, like, that's not what it's about. It's about the internal journey of how you respond to this thing where then the movie being like, and then we found Church feels really insincere coming from him.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And, like, maybe I'm way out of line in my pathologizing of this, but, like, we spent a lot of time thinking about this guy, and you look at, like, I, you know, I feel like when people mock, like, the end of. Of War of the Worlds, it's a similar thing.

[Kanise Mobley]

How did those kids live?

[Griffin Newman]

How did they.

[David Sims]

It feels sort of insincere where you're just like, that's not where these movies go.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

That's not really his language of, like. And then you make it. And the Brownstone's in perfect shape.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, yeah, sorry. I. I watched that movie also in theaters. Also was like, that girl had been dead so fast. What are we doing?

[Griffin Newman]

Justin Chatwin Rubbing. Running, like, into a tank. And then later he's just like, hey, dad.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, what's up?

[David Sims]

That's.

[Griffin Newman]

We've talked about it.

[Kanise Mobley]

Sorry. Sorry.

[David Sims]

But I feel like most. Yes, most Spielberg movies kind of end with this note of, like. And people have to live with for the degree that it's like, here's, like, the king of, like, wonder and uplift. Most of his movies, he's good at finding a good ending point to leave you feeling kind of good. But if you actually dig into where his movies resolve himself, they're messy as hell in a way that's interesting and I think makes them stick. You know, it's like you're putting the Ark of the Covenant in a crate and being like, so what now? What are you talking about? And the guys swim up to shore at the end of Jaws, and you're like, they just survived a shark attack. And they're like, their friend was murdered.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, and, like, acquaintance.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

They're not friends of Queens.

[Kanise Mobley]

I like this distinction. Their emotions shouldn't be that.

[Griffin Newman]

Quiz.

[Kanise Mobley]

It was just an acquaintance. It doesn't matter that much. Right, right.

[David Sims]

But, like, this is his first movie that is really kind of. I'm running in my head if I can back this up. I think I can. I think this is, like, his first movie that is really trying to contend with, like, human evils. Right?

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. It's not a thing coming from the sky or the sea.

[David Sims]

It's not supernatural, but it's also not, like, bureaucratic. It's not institutional.

[Kanise Mobley]

It's not that guy.

[David Sims]

It's an abstract idea of, like, the law chasing the, like, honeymoon lovers in Sugar Land Express, which is also, like, a low level, you know, like, all this sort of stuff. It's like, what if there is, like, an unfathomable level of, like, human suffering and it is, like, not abstracted. It is, like, looked at directly in the eye, is perpetuated by people, is perpetuated out of basically their own smallness. I mean, that's what this movie really comes to. Right. What is so cathartic in the dinner table scene is like, also the Adolf Caesar character need to be like, you're right. I raised him poorly. I'm bad, and I him up.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

This is like a bad lineage of bad people who don't know how to.

[Kanise Mobley]

I raised a bad son. His kids are. We're all Bad.

[David Sims]

And you look around this table and the collateral damage of all of this, and it's just like, men will literally do the Color Purple to avoid going to therapy. Right. Like, to a certain degree.

[Kanise Mobley]

I'm doing a little clap into the microphone that was.

[Griffin Newman]

Loves to avoid going to therapy.

[David Sims]

It's a great joke structure, but I think that places him. Him in a story that he has no idea how to actually end.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. Because the end of the book is very much so. Like, her and Mr. Kind of like develop a. Not a friendship exactly, but, like, comfort with each other in a certain way. And Shug and all these other people where it is like, hey, these people kind of rehabilitate and acknowledge the fact that the. At the harm that they've caused each other and God. And they. They smoke pot and I'm like, good for them.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

But they don't. Of course, they didn't do that in the movie in the 80s where they.

[David Sims]

Come to God or whatever.

[Kanise Mobley]

But I really like that development that can happen in the book that Spielberg does not seem to have a handle on.

[David Sims]

Well, that's the internal life stuff, which he just is the stuff that, like, of course, he doesn't know what to do with. Yeah, right. But I. But I also think. I. I think the ideas of what this movie is like. Like grappling with are things that he just, like, doesn't know how to work through. Because you can't blow up the shark.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the thing. You can't have a Denimont where Danny Glover gets pushed off a cliff like Gaston.

[Kanise Mobley]

Right.

[David Sims]

And even the sort of moment.

[Kanise Mobley]

I would like to see it. But yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right.

[David Sims]

The moment of kind of grace of him, like, receiving the letter and sending the money and being like, I should do one good thing.

[Kanise Mobley]

One.

[David Sims]

Right. Still doesn't, like, resolve anything. It doesn't heal any wounds. It's done in sort of, like, private. Right. It's basically just this one quiet, silent moment of his own reckoning of, like, I can do one good thing in my life. I. I will never have the ability to say I'm sorry or, like, own up to any of this. But. But then it's like he's trying to push the movie's equivalent of the brownstone at the end of. Of War of the Worlds, where it's like, well, what if they have the house and the church and they're all together and they're happy and the kids had a good education? Then they'd just Be happy for the rest of time. Right?

[Kanise Mobley]

Everything's fine.

[David Sims]

Right? They got there.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

They got to, like. I don't know, they. They got to fucking Emerald City. Like, there's a degree of that, right?

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like. Yes. I feel like we. I'm trying to think of what we have. We haven't talked about Sug Avery enough. In my opinion, that's sort of the, you know, plotline we've sort of talked around because, like, those sequences of her singing and of the club are very, very cool. And. I don't know. I just want to know everyone's opinion on them.

[David Sims]

Well, I. I think you're saying there's sort of, you know, the. The three Shug Sophia, Seti thing. Right.

[Kanise Mobley]

Celie.

[David Sims]

Celie. Excuse me. Triangle of the three of them and understanding Sealy's pathology through seeing the examples of how the women who try to step out of line are treated in society.

[Griffin Newman]

Sophia is beaten down and imprisoned for saying hell no to somebody. Essentially.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, one time. And the musical, obviously, it's a big song. It's a great number.

[Kanise Mobley]

Are you saying I should or shouldn't see the musical?

[Griffin Newman]

Some people like the movie. Did you ever see it?

[David Sims]

I never saw it. No.

[Griffin Newman]

I found the way.

[Kanise Mobley]

No, Fantasia's in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I mean, the. The performers are pretty good in it. It's not. It's. I found the way it was made a little hermetic feeling like. Like a lot of movie musicals where I just kind of, like, this doesn't feel like it's set anywhere and, like. But it's kind of. I mean, it's pretty watchable. I think it's a strange musical, fundamentally, like, in a way, much as this is kind of a strange. But it's a tough thing to adapt into a, you know, progressive, you know, Hollywoody.

[David Sims]

But that felt like that was Oprah really getting behind it and being like, we need a new way to get the story back out to people, which I understand.

[Griffin Newman]

Again, it's watchable. I don't know. It's okay. It's okay. Do you like musicals? No. Okay, well, then I don't think you should.

[Kanise Mobley]

I like some musicals, but I have to realize, like, oh, you like these three musicals that you grew up on and you're not really interested in any other, so. Oh, my God. West side Story is one that we watched in music class in elementary school. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but I watch that one all the time. It's like when Best Picture it was okay. I was like, Somebody you. You should know. You should be able to answer these questions immediately. I. So west side Story, the Sound of Music, and Oliver.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I mean, these are classic 60s, you know, big Hollywood, colorful musical movies.

[David Sims]

I feel like all three movies I saw for the first time on VH in school, broken up into classics.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of fun classics. I mean, I. Oliver also won Best Picture, and that's the one where you're like, this one's the best picture. Like, but it is fun.

[Kanise Mobley]

It's. But it's not as. I mean, come on.

[Griffin Newman]

Please, God in city.

[David Sims]

I thought you were going to break out into the full song anyway.

[Griffin Newman]

But. But okay, so, sugar. Avery. Right? So Sophia's beaten down. Shug. Avery is this independent and impressive figure in a way, but she is also somewhat, you know, marginalized and, like, a little tragic and, like. Right.

[David Sims]

There is a more sort of. Of quiet suppression around her. Right. Like, Sophia is, like, really pushing lines and being, like, pushed back, whereas Shug, there's just this kind of like, she's not a serious woman.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? Yeah, a little bit. But it's. But like, she is this gateway to Sealy considering whatever. Independence and sexual independence.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. Like, I like when Shug is singing Sister, which is a song I grew up with. And this is part of the reason why I thought I was like, I've seen this movie a zillion times, because that Sister, that one people. I heard that throughout my childhood. But in that moment in the movie, it is clear that Celie is experiencing something and is being seen as a human with thoughts and emotions and, like, potential in a way that she hasn't before. And I really like this.

[Griffin Newman]

None of these men, right?

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, none of them have. I also kind of like. I mean, it's very, very silly, but the way that Spielberg shoots. Oh, Sophie's about to fight this girl. I liked that.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes. No, I. I think it's. It's. What makes Margaret Avery's performance so good is she enters the movie late and you're just like, this is the first person who actually, like, sees her and listens to her.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

When this is paying any attention to her. We've been seeing this mostly from this character's viewpoint who is the one who silently looks and listens.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And I also think she successfully comes in and you're like, this is the only person in the movie who has a bulletproof sense of self. Right. Just comes in, like, completely self possessed, does not care what anyone thinks for how much Sophia is, like, brash and pushy. And, like, won't take shit from anybody or whatever. You see the hesitation in her. I think Oprah plays that it is someone who is trying to fight against a system but understands what she's up against. Where Shug, to some degree, is just sort of like, I'm me.

[Kanise Mobley]

I'm me. I really like that in the book because she continues to I'm me her way throughout. I feel like in the movie, and this was a little bit frustrating, they do have her interacting with the preacher character. And at that moment, it doesn't feel as much like, I am me. I'm standing here. I am powerful. I am completely accepting of who I am and think that I have worth. It seems like she's going to the church to talk to the preacher guy, and she's, like, asking for worth in a certain way. And then they reiterate that when she's walking to the church at the end of the movie, singing and being like, I'm a person. And then, like, she hugs the. And that's like, her big moment when she hugs the pastor. Am I making any sense at all?

[Griffin Newman]

The movie Luz says, sign to her. I didn't say yes. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I think the other part of it is that she kind of. Her gift is that she doesn't consider that she should be feeling limited in any way, if that makes any sense. You know, like that. Let me word this better. The. The scene. The scene. The kiss scene. Right.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, that one.

[David Sims]

They're having the conversation about sex. And. And suddenly the entire act of sex is being discussed for the first time in a Spielberg movie ever, but where she's sort of radicalized by, like, what do you mean? You don't get enjoyment out of. Yes, right. That it's not that she's naive enough to think that all sex is positive, but that she kind of can't consider a world in which it's only negative and you've never experienced any light versus, like, Sophia being someone who is, like, making moves that have statements behind them of her trying to purposefully, like, push back against. Against the idea of what she's told. Shug seems a little bit, like, unencumbered by that line of thinking, which then reduces other people to be like, well, she's a floozy. She's a singer. You know what showbiz women are like. She's not a real person. Right. And you seal the. See this with sailor of like, oh, no. She's able to actually connect other people. She has an internal life. She's not just some, like, Whatever. But it does take a little bit away from her to have her need to consult someone else.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes. Which also then ties back into this, like, what is this movie's, like, relationship to organized religion? I don't say in a conspiratorial way, but almost looking to it as an easy solve. Right. Like, well, isn't just, like, the ultimate salve for all of this if you just, like, know that God loves you.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And you can find love and acceptance here and, like, you find your way to the other side of the rainbow. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, an important detail, though, is the pastor is her father.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Which I think we should mention because that I think she's looking for acceptance.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And you read about when this film came out and there was controversy and a lot of it was over, like, this movie. Every single man in this movie is the most, like, horrific monster who ever existed.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes. That is also. I remember learning about that. We're like, hey, all the black men are mad. This movie shows them as bad people. And we don't like that. That. And I was like, I don't know. Like, these men are bad. But.

[David Sims]

But. But then you get into this conversation where you're like, if there is, like, one studio film starring a black cast every three years, then it's hard to not have it also feel like it's representing something larger because there's no counter argument.

[Kanise Mobley]

True.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

I was like, is there a good man in the movie?

[David Sims]

Well, I'd say it's kind of that character, but in such a small way.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But, I mean, Harpo is. Is not so bad. Yeah, he's terrible.

[Kanise Mobley]

I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Griffin Newman]

He's kind of just an idiot.

[Kanise Mobley]

He brings that sweet girl around. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

So the best we can say about men is that some of them are idiots, and therefore he's a sillier evil.

[David Sims]

Yes, yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

Sillier.

[Griffin Newman]

He's a bit of more buffoonery or whatever. But. No, I mean, look, it's in the book. Like, the book is.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Incredibly skeptical of these power dynamics, like, between the genders at this time.

[Kanise Mobley]

There's one good guy in the book that I like. Remind me, it is the one that takes Nettie to Africa.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Sure.

[Kanise Mobley]

Well, he's good.

[Griffin Newman]

Good job by him.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

He's the one. The one good guy. And then they don't go into that.

[Griffin Newman]

There's one good guy in this movie. Steven Spielberg, who accepted DGA minimum. No. I don't know. Like, it's just like, this movie was A hit. It got nominated for 10 Oscars. Obviously, it didn't win any, which was.

[David Sims]

A bit of a rebuke at the time. It held a record for the most nominations without a single win and notably did not get Spielberg a nomination. He won the dga, which I think was the first time that someone won the DGA without being nominated for an Oscar. Like, it was a weird thing. And in that Hook interview I mentioned earlier, where the guy's like, so is Steven Spielberg bitter about not having won the Oscar yet? Do you sit there going, why not me? When will it be my time? And Spielberg's like, you know, like, he actually was pretty reasonable about it and was just like, look, I'm not gonna, like, complain. I have my success. I don't feel like they're saying, not you. They're saying, not yet. It gives me something to prove, you know, like, it makes me work harder. And then he's like, the one that hurt me with color was Color Purple. Color Purple. It felt personal that it was like, the most nominated movie and I was the one thing left out. But it does speak to the sort of weirdness of being like, okay, Steven, good job. Like, willingness into existence also.

[Griffin Newman]

Again, who nudged him out, do you know?

[David Sims]

In 1985.

[Griffin Newman]

We'll talk Oscars in a second. Yeah, like, where the other four director nominees directed the other four best picture nominees. Nominees. Sidney Pollock, Hector Babenko, John Houston, Peter Weir.

[Kanise Mobley]

Hector Babenko.

[David Sims]

What was Kiss of the Spider Woman?

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay, thanks.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no problem. Which talking about like, that's another queer movie. I was trying to remember when in timeline. But, like, what exists in queer cinema at that point, that was like a revolutionary movie, but was also, like, made independent, wildly outside of the studio system. Right. Who nudged him out?

[Griffin Newman]

Akira Kurosawa for Ran, the, you know, Japanese master in his sort of final years. It's not like it's like, oh, yeah, they nudged him out for, you know, Mr. Directing. Like, you know, stupid.

[David Sims]

But it's the same thing. It's the same thing with the Jaws year.

[Kanise Mobley]

I'm. I'm sorry. I'm just visualizing a poster.

[Griffin Newman]

Mr. Presents.

[Kanise Mobley]

Stupid.

[David Sims]

I think that movie's underrated.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course you do.

[David Sims]

I do. I think.

[Griffin Newman]

No, you're right.

[David Sims]

Mr. Bullshit made a couple good movies. He's not a great director, but he's made some great films.

[Griffin Newman]

For Jaws, he was nudged out by Fellini. Here he's nudged out by. By Kurosawa. These are. But, as you know, is highly esteemed. Now, if I'm Spielberg, maybe in the Back of my mind, I'm like, John Houston for Prissy's Honor. That movie's a.

[David Sims]

All these cases. The person who snubs him is someone who is, like, humongous. Right. And legendary and the kind of person Spielberg reveres. But then it's like, it's interesting that Hector Ranko makes the cut and he doesn't, considering how big his status was. But it was all this.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, Hector Babenko. I'm sure it was the kind of that thing of like, hey, man, Steven Spielberg gets to make what he wants. Good for him that he wanted to make something a little different than an Alien movie or whatever. Hector Babinco, like, fought and scratched to make this little, you know, indie movie.

[David Sims]

And here's a movie without concession. That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, about, you know, a gay man and a leftist revolutionary in prison chatting about Brazilian politics. Like, it's like, fuck, okay.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That's hard to get across the line. Good job. Maybe that's what it was. Or maybe it's just because I just feel like if this movie was. And I think, again, I do think this movie is generally good and watchable, but if this movie was great, like, if this was like a really amazing movie, it would be a seismic film that was. That won all the Oscars and, like, was remembered, like, totemically. Right. Don't you know what I mean? Where it's like, this could have been one of the biggest movies of the 80s. Kind of was a big movie that I. I don't know.

[Kanise Mobley]

But not as big as it could have been.

[Griffin Newman]

It could have been like his Schindler's List. It's probably just not a spiel Spielberg movie at the time.

[David Sims]

That's the thing.

[Griffin Newman]

You're like, what were you gonna say?

[Kanise Mobley]

No, I just. The way that you're describing it is almost like, oh, my gosh, we have this dish, it has everything that you like, but it's missing one spice that would make it really come together and be a memorable meal. And I'm wondering, what do you think that spice would be?

[David Sims]

Salt.

[Kanise Mobley]

Salt. It's missing salt.

[Griffin Newman]

No, that's like the joke is it's like, like, fuck, we forgot to put salt. You know, it's like. It's like everything about all the elements here are great, except the director you've picked is a little off for it. And it's like, well, the director of the movie kind of needs to be on for it.

[David Sims]

But the answer, I think, is just point of view.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Because it is a well directed movie. In terms of, like, how it looks and what it evokes, you know, it's not. It's not like a badly directed movie. No one looks in the camera.

[Kanise Mobley]

No, it's the.

[Griffin Newman]

It's always my joke. Spielberg forgot to tell Whoopi going, stop looking at the camera. Look over there.

[David Sims]

I forgot one thing, David.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes?

[David Sims]

It's March, huh? March Madness.

[Griffin Newman]

True.

[David Sims]

But it's also time for spring cleaning.

[Griffin Newman]

You gotta spring clean as the weather improves your springs, you declutter your home. And there's no other metaphorical cleaning you could do, is there?

[David Sims]

Well, you could clean your gut, your body. That's what you could do. And the pre slash probiotics and AG1 help to support digestion. This is obviously one of my favorite products.

[Griffin Newman]

One of my favorite daily user, 90% AG1. At this point, I feel like your body is just a fine green powder.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's like GN5AG95.

[Griffin Newman]

Gian, of course, being Griffin Newman. So what's AG1? It's a supplement. You take it every day, Griffin.

[David Sims]

I pour. I just pour it in water. That's why I just do.

[Griffin Newman]

I do one green powder, right?

[David Sims]

In cold water and about 10 ounces, and it goes down easy. People. People like to do it different ways. Some people mix it into smoothies, their recipes. There's a whole community online. What does it taste like? Oh, hold on.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, there's a door.

[David Sims]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

We're doing the door.

[Kanise Mobley]

Door?

[David Sims]

What do you mean? Yes, there's a door in our office.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, who's at the door?

[David Sims]

You can't be surprised by the existence of the door.

[Griffin Newman]

Who's at the door?

[David Sims]

Let me check. Step, step, step. Creek.

[Griffin Newman]

What's up? You seem pretty hostile. Who are you?

[David Sims]

What's another word you'd use?

[Griffin Newman]

Grumpy?

[David Sims]

We're getting close.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[David Sims]

Do I seem happy?

[Griffin Newman]

Sad?

[David Sims]

Close. Close.

[Griffin Newman]

Angry Close.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, it's. Are you red? No. No.

[David Sims]

I'll give you a hint. What's that? If you haven't noticed already, I'm an anthropomorphized walking stomach.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I'm upset.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, no.

[David Sims]

Harrumph, harrumph, harrumph. Kick dirt.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Are you like, sort of like a Mr. Man, but like off brand?

[David Sims]

I feel like I'm unique and personal, proprietary, and it will hold up in court, but sure, if that gives you a handle.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know what's going on.

[David Sims]

I'm an upset stomach.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, you're an upset stomach. Well, it's nice to meet you. Upset stomach.

[David Sims]

I wish someone could improve my mood if there was only a product that helped upset stomachs.

[Kanise Mobley]

Ding dong.

[Griffin Newman]

What's going on?

[David Sims]

What's going on? Let me go to the door.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not participating.

[David Sims]

Okay, I'll walk quickly. Step, step, step, step. Creek. Hi. Hello. Hi.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey, what's up?

[David Sims]

Hi. Look me in the eyes. You can trust me. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Huh?

[David Sims]

You can trust me.

[Griffin Newman]

Tom Cruise.

[David Sims]

I'm kind of Tom Cruise coded, but I'm a gut.

[Griffin Newman]

You're what?

[David Sims]

I'm a gut.

[Griffin Newman]

You're a gut.

[David Sims]

I'm a gut.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

You gotta trust your gut.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure. That's true. They always say that.

[David Sims]

Right? So I, I feel like. Do you mind if I just silo over here with upset stomach? I know you're having a good conversation.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I'm just gonna like snack over here.

[David Sims]

Stomach. Trust me, you got to use he one. I don't know. What, what could it do for me? David, you're back in this.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, what's up? Oh, okay. Yeah, you know, look, otherwise, unlike other supplements that come and go AG1, it's a habit that actually sticks because you can feel the difference. Griff. I know it's helped you support your digestion, your energy levels humongously. Skin health.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Sometimes I walk in the office, you go, griff's looking good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you are looking good.

[David Sims]

That's the only reason why I would say. Hold on one second.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[David Sims]

I just quickly. Step, step, step, step.

[Kanise Mobley]

Craig.

[David Sims]

David, look.

[Griffin Newman]

What?

[David Sims]

It's butterflies.

[Griffin Newman]

Butterflies?

[David Sims]

Well, the butterflies that were previously in a stomach.

[Griffin Newman]

Huh.

[David Sims]

Anyway, go on.

[Griffin Newman]

When it comes to my health, I want something I can trust. That's why I choose AG1. With science backed ingredients and real benefits, I can feel AG1 makes it easy to support overall. Well. And that's why we've been partnered with AG1 for so long. And AG1 is offering new subscribers a $376 gift.

[David Sims]

Huge.

[Griffin Newman]

When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3K2, and I love that.

[David Sims]

I love them. The pills.

[Griffin Newman]

I guess so.

[David Sims]

And five capsules, I'm telling you, and.

[Griffin Newman]

Five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out drinkag1.com check and get this offer. That's Drink AG1 to start your new year on a healthier note.

[David Sims]

Okay, wait. Tummy has poured himself a glass. Hold on one second. Oh, wow. He's happy now. There was kind of a complete arc there.

[Griffin Newman]

There was A time my wife made a cake without sugar. Like, she forgot to put sugar in the cake.

[Kanise Mobley]

How did that cake take?

[Griffin Newman]

It tasted. It was like. It was like a pumpkin cake or a sweet potato, you know, something like that. And it was one of those things where, like, one bite in, I was like, this is the strangest sensation because this is what it's supposed to be. It has the texture and it tastes like pumpkin or whatever. But what is wrong? They feel crazy right now. Then you realize, like, oh, right, it's not sweet. It's supposed to be sweet anyway.

[David Sims]

Sure. But, like, here's. Here's the. I'm just. There's just the alternative. It's like Spielberg's reading the recipe, right. Which is the book the Color Purple. He read it very well.

[Griffin Newman]

Ros Walker was impressed by how well he read it.

[David Sims]

Right. And he's, like, looking and he's like, am I reading this right? 4 tablespoons of oregano and a birthday cake. And the book is like, this cake has oregano. And he's like, you know what? I don't feel comfortable enough with oregano.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a really good.

[David Sims]

I'm going to leave the oregano.

[Griffin Newman]

He's going to make a regular cake. Right. I will put salt and pepper on it. I'm just not going to. I'm not going to. I don't know what that is.

[David Sims]

Right. And everyone's like, the oregano is the dicey part of it.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But also, if you're not putting it in there, what. Maybe there's.

[Kanise Mobley]

Don't have a different recipe. I like that.

[David Sims]

Thank you. It is interesting. I kept watching it. I'm just like, this movie continually keeps landing just barely on the side of. I think this is good with, like, humongous qualifiers. And you saying, like, well, if it had been perfect, then it would be one of the most excisemic American movies of all time. And yet. Yet this movie, like, has a humongous legacy.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And even though that legacy continues to be, like, relitigating it in a lot of ways to the extent that you felt like you had seen. And I felt like I had seen it, too. And I grew up in West Village of New York. Like, it was not, like, passed on to me culturally in the same way, but I have this very distinct memory of, like, the school I went to. There was a bookstore that was like, a block away that we passed by every day when my parents were dropping me off and picking me up from school that had a giant poster of the Color Purple facing Towards the window. And I would just see this thing every day for, like, 10 years. That was like, okay, Steven Spielberg, Color Purple, Hewlett. Surprise.

[Kanise Mobley]

This is a thing. This is important.

[David Sims]

Right. I was just like, this is 10 years after this movie came out. And I understand you're telling me these names. Ten years ago, before I was born, made something that still deserves to hang in, like, a bookstore window. And then I asked my parents. I'm like, is that one of the best movies ever made? And they're like, it's okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It is.

[David Sims]

It kind of works.

[Ben Hosley]

I'll shout out when Celie leaves. And Danny Glover's characters, left to his own devices, the house is up.

[Kanise Mobley]

I mean, it was up when she got there. And then it goes back to being right up.

[Ben Hosley]

Like farm animals.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, like, it. It's.

[Ben Hosley]

It's like such an extreme version of this has become a bachelor pad.

[Kanise Mobley]

That is a level of dirt. I, I. It's hard for my brain to wrap around. I keep a very clean home. I, I don't, like, mess at all. That you would have, like, I don't even let people wear shoes into my home.

[Griffin Newman]

Should you?

[Kanise Mobley]

That you would have animals that poop that. I mean, we all poop, but, like, they poop and then they don't wipe. It's just.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I. Tell me about a rule I have.

[Kanise Mobley]

I want to hear it.

[Griffin Newman]

No, like, outside pants in the bed.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, you can't sit on your outside clothes generally, like, take no pants for some reason. Or your butt, you know? Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

And you're rubbing against where everyone else's butt was and butt sweat, and it's like, a combination of things that means that you are bringing that into your home. And yet, like, where you sleep, where you spend potentially eight hours a day, you want to be rubbing against that. That's. Don't do that.

[David Sims]

Okay. Can I run a couple simulations by you and ask what you would do in these search situations?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm putting on my VR goggle.

[Kanise Mobley]

I want to. Yes, please.

[David Sims]

Okay. You're like, oh, exhausting day, Right? I want you to just imagine a scenario in which you, David Sims, feel overwhelmed by life, are sleep deprived, my balls hurt, possibly have multiple plates spinning. David got SN snipped.

[Ben Hosley]

I think he's locked in.

[Griffin Newman]

He's locked all the way in.

[David Sims]

And you're like, okay, I have, like, 10 minutes before I have to turn around and, like, leave the house and go somewhere else. Right. This is like a quick pit stop. And you're sort of like, I just want to, like, lie down for five minutes. Do you, in that situation go, I need to change into sweatpants for five minutes to be able to lie on the bed, or the fact that I don't have enough time to change into sweatpants and out means I shouldn't be lying down.

[Griffin Newman]

The pants come off and then you.

[David Sims]

Put them back on later.

[Kanise Mobley]

The pants can come off and on, but you are acting as though the only surface in your home where you are able to lay down is.

[David Sims]

I was going to say the next option. I was going to say, but you allow outside pants on the couch.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay, outside pants are allowed on the couch.

[David Sims]

So the bed just has a level of sanctity.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree. I mean, that was. That's my proposal. Keith, where are you from in North Carolina?

[Kanise Mobley]

Charlotte, North Carolina.

[Griffin Newman]

The great.

[Kanise Mobley]

The great.

[David Sims]

The Hornets.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes, for a while we weren't.

[David Sims]

For a while we weren't.

[Kanise Mobley]

But, yes, we are the Hornets again. That is the teen that I was very attached to as a child.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, like, did you have a starter jacket?

[Kanise Mobley]

I didn't have a starter jacket, but I had, like, a lot of big T shirts. I don't know why, but, like, kids in my middle and elementary school wore, like, big T shirts and umbro shorts. And we were like, we look good.

[Griffin Newman]

Probably did.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And that was, you know, the. The teal and purple. Very cool. Like, and.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, they would come to, like, like, events. Like, we had a. I'm, like, so cool. But in sixth grade, we had a trip to dendrology camp, and, like, a bunch of schools sent kids to a park, and we learned about leaves and stuff. And then the hornet came out and did a little dance.

[David Sims]

Can you say that word?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, like. Like the mascot. The Hornet.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool. Awesome.

[David Sims]

What. What kind of camp?

[Griffin Newman]

I had to look it up. It is the study the science and study of wooded plants.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Kanise Mobley]

You guys didn't go to Dendrology camp?

[Griffin Newman]

You know, I meant to, and I. I fucking forgot that you had to.

[Kanise Mobley]

Make up songs about different types of leaf structures. You guys didn't have to do that.

[Griffin Newman]

Can you look at, like, bark and be like, oh, this is this kind of truth.

[David Sims]

Have it in the back of your head.

[Kanise Mobley]

I. Oh, my God. Mostly. No, just, like, a few types of leaves, and somebody did a song to the thong song, but it was like, ooh, that chunk. So scandalous. And I will remember that until the day that I die.

[David Sims]

Sounds like a good way to make learning fun.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You are from exactly where they shot the movie. Essentially, they shot it right outside of.

[Kanise Mobley]

Thong, like rural South Carolina, so between North Carolina and Georgia, obviously. And we went to black churches growing up. And then I would visit my hyper religious relatives in Maryland, where I thought Maryland was the north, but a lot of Maryland is the south and they have some backward ass churches.

[Griffin Newman]

No, yeah, Maryland is, you know, was. Didn't secede, but was a slave state. And yeah, you know, that's where I.

[Kanise Mobley]

Learned about white Jesus on the wall of a black church. I thought that was very fascinating. And then did you get like, it.

[Griffin Newman]

Was a black church that was like. But we, we prayed about white Jesus.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. And I'm like, wow, that seems weird.

[David Sims]

Yeah, sure.

[Kanise Mobley]

And then chick tracts. Have you heard of these?

[Griffin Newman]

I do, Yes, I do. Because they were, they became like an Internet phenomenon, even though they're from a long time ago, but the Internet like discovered them when I was a teenager. They're very strange.

[Kanise Mobley]

They are very strange. And I, I would take them because it was like, hey, I'm bored.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, they're comic books.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. I'm like, I'm bored at church. I need something to read. So they had like a little container where there were different chick tracks in each of these little slots. And I would take the, the new ones because I needed something to read during church.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, they're like little comic books that are sort of evangelical, but like very, very hardcore. Whatever. Orthodox or right. Right wing or whatever. How. I mean, it's what taught me that even some, some evangelical Christians don't just hate, you know, Jews and homosexuals, they hate Catholics. Like, you know, there was a whole.

[Kanise Mobley]

Book on like, no, you guys are worshiping Mary. It's actually the devil. Catholics are bad.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Where it's like, but because he was a Catholic, straight to hell forever.

[David Sims]

No way.

[Kanise Mobley]

It's just like what the cartoons would be like. And so then he went to hell and it's just like him roasting in.

[Griffin Newman]

Hell and there's a little cartoon of him like, yeah, in hell. They're like, he's not getting out. Chick tracks. Yeah, they always just have a pretty. There's not usually a way out. Like, chick tracks aren't usually like.

[Kanise Mobley]

But you know, there was one about a Muslim character and he's like, what? I'm not worshiping God. Oh, I'll just worship God then.

[Griffin Newman]

And then if you make the switch, the chick shracks were on board with you.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, Very important to my upbringing. Yeah. But growing up in the south, like, yeah, this was such a big part of it, the songs. And my church did have really good Music. In fact, when I watch other movies about church and they don't have good music, I'm like, this doesn't make any sense.

[Griffin Newman]

This does not reflect the.

[Kanise Mobley]

Why are you going there if there's not good music?

[Griffin Newman]

This movie has terrible music. I mean, Quincy Jones. But I mean, like, I do think that hurts.

[Kanise Mobley]

Like, when sh.

[David Sims]

Is the song. Those songs are great.

[Kanise Mobley]

On her way to church, she's singing and I'm like, yes. This scene seems more like what people sang in church just to kind of.

[David Sims]

Like go back full circle. I mean, it's the other part of this movie that's just like the fact that it successfully introduces Danny Glover, Oprah Winfrey, and Whoopi Goldberg to a wider audience all at once. And then the three of them are so impactful, not just in the work they do, but also just as like, cultural leaders in a lot of ways. Like, Danny Glover is maybe the most, like, overtly political movie star of all time. Yeah, arguably, you know, okay. And like, I'm in there. Oprah is someone who, like, at points in time, could arguably win presidential elections.

[Griffin Newman]

That's so they say.

[David Sims]

It's kind of the Joe Rogan of her moment, if you will.

[Kanise Mobley]

I, I, I, I, I mean, Joe Rogan, we'd say, like, evil, Lawful, evil.

[Griffin Newman]

She'd be like, on the microphone.

[Kanise Mobley]

Lawful, neutral, or for looking at that grid. Wait, what did you say?

[Griffin Newman]

I just. When he said Joe Rogan, I just got upset. Ben, how you doing? Ben's. It looks like Ben is rolling a cigarette, but I think he's just playing with a post it note.

[David Sims]

Something.

[Ben Hosley]

I just.

[Kanise Mobley]

Do you have like a collection of rolled up pieces of paper over there? He's showing us several pieces of paper.

[Griffin Newman]

Origami.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I feel like this is a movie that Spielberg does not point back to that often when discussing his own legacy, which he is not loath to do.

[Griffin Newman]

It doesn't really come up in those sort of retrospective films about him or anything like that.

[David Sims]

And he doesn't talk about with shame. He doesn't talk about about it with pride. He's just sort of like, that's another one. I think I did some things right, I did some things wrong. He's usually pretty, like, unsentimental when he looks back on his work in that kind of way. But there is something to, like, Glover, Winfrey and Goldberg all point back to this movie all the time because it changed their lives, you know, and like. And so it kind of like, has always remained in the conversation.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Which is then also furthered By Oprah being like, I'm going to get this on Broadway. Like, I'm going to do, like, it just. It's. I don't know. It's. It's an odd thing where it's not just like, you know, there's certain. I feel like we've all had this experience, right. Where it's like, you're reading, like, a huge, like, American book in school and they're like, we're going to show you the movie. The movie's not great, but it is what it is. And it might help you guys understand the book if you watch for a week here.

[Griffin Newman]

So you're going to watch the movie, right?

[Kanise Mobley]

That was the Scarlet Letter when I was growing up.

[David Sims]

Wait, the Demi Moore?

[Griffin Newman]

The sexy one with Demi Moore.

[Kanise Mobley]

We watched that.

[Griffin Newman]

You're allowed to watch that in school.

[Kanise Mobley]

Also.

[Griffin Newman]

Boobs.

[Kanise Mobley]

The. The Crucible.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, that makes more sense because that's not an amazing movie, but at least that's it.

[Kanise Mobley]

There was a big poster.

[Griffin Newman]

And this is Daniel Daylor's corner.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. And all the women in my class. Girls, were girls, were under 18, were girls. So we sat.

[Griffin Newman]

There were some adult women.

[Kanise Mobley]

No, there were all the girls sat on one side of the class so we could stare at the Daniel Day Lewis poster. Because he's okay in that movie. He looked really good.

[Griffin Newman]

He looks very intense, too.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes, girl. We're like, oh, that's what men are like. That's not nice.

[David Sims]

That might be kind of like peak, unvarnished handsome from him.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's that mid-90s big beardy kind of phase for him. Yeah.

[David Sims]

No, my point was just I feel like this movie is constantly talked about in that sort of context of, like, the good versus the bad and, like, what it got right and what we know today and what we, you know, yada, yada, yada. But yet I don't think it's presented in that way of, like, look, it's not a great adaptation, but it is what it is. Like, the movie kind of has its own reputation as its own world work. Not just as this was the time they tried and didn't really succeed in cracking the Color Purple, which is part of what's interesting about it, versus maybe, like, I. I don't know, a more successful literal adaptation. Although, as you said, like, maybe this is a work that doesn't really translate to that form.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's. It's tough. Again, the book is nothing really like this. Yeah. And because of the epistolary thing and because of the fact that it's all in the vernacular. Like, I remember when I started reading it, I was, like, very thrown by that because I think I had the Spielberg movie in my head of, like, this isn't just like kind of a. Like, let me take you back to this time with like, an omniscient narrator. Like, okay, it's the Deep South. It's the early 1900s. It's not like that at all. Instead, you're, like, right with Celie and, like, her trying to describe her situation, and it, you know, begins in a similar way. Obviously, her situation is bad.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes. It's a lot of dear God and then dear Nettie, and then so she thinks something happens. Nettie. But I like that it is letters. And I. I listen to the audiobook because.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, interesting.

[Kanise Mobley]

Are we all, like, are we pro. Anti.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, I'm not anti audiobook. I have never. I shouldn't say this because God knows they'll sponsor the podcast. I've never really been an audiobook person, but I'm a podcast person. I think I just read book. I read book on phone and Kindle and stuff.

[Kanise Mobley]

You read book on phone?

[Griffin Newman]

But who narrated the audiobook?

[Kanise Mobley]

Alice Walker and I. So I had a stroke. It has affected my brain. It is harder for me to read books, but I love books, so I listen to a lot of audiobooks now. This is why it's good.

[Griffin Newman]

I would ban audiobooks, but now that I've heard your story. Thank you.

[Kanise Mobley]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

This is why it's good. There's audio.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay, cool.

[Ben Hosley]

But it's the thing that. That is tough about it is when you're talking to somebody, it's like. Feels weird to be like, I listen to a book.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes, exactly. Where I'm like. I want to say, like, oh, yeah, I read that, but I didn't technically read it. And then I feel guilt about it, and it's like a thing I'm holding inside.

[David Sims]

So put it out.

[Kanise Mobley]

But yeah, I read the audiobook. I think Alice Walker does a good job. And it is much easier for me to understand Southern vernacular English when it is spoken than having to read did.

[David Sims]

So 100%.

[Kanise Mobley]

I think that my experience was probably a little bit easier.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, this.

[David Sims]

This movie was a big box office success.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we'll do box office came in a second. I do want to acknowledge the Oscars. It's really a terrible, terrible Oscars because it's no offense to this movie. Well, some offense. It's the out of Africa Oscars.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And it does feel like it's like they can't settle on something like the Color Purple because whatever, they, you know, it's not hitting quite big enough. And instead they settle for an even sort of duller, you know, literary epic, like in. In my opinion.

[David Sims]

But we're sort of like, right. This feels the most like an Austin.

[Griffin Newman]

Out of Africa was a big hit. I'm not. Have you seen out of Africa?

[Kanise Mobley]

I have not seen out of Africa.

[David Sims]

Who's never seen it?

[Griffin Newman]

Meryl Streep and Robert Redford.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, we like both of those people.

[Griffin Newman]

We do. And it's. It's a very, very handsome movie, you know? Have you've never seen it, I'm assuming? No.

[Kanise Mobley]

Because they're in Africa, I presume.

[Griffin Newman]

Unfortunately, yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

And they're. I'm. I'm guessing stabs in the dark. Are there wild animals of some sort?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, there's some wild animals and stuff.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a whole.

[Kanise Mobley]

Do we have a. A large sun going down and we see. Yeah. Vistas, etc.

[David Sims]

Isn't like the poster literally what Kinese is describing, but with like a tiger?

[Griffin Newman]

Pretty much. Pretty much.

[Ben Hosley]

The sun, though, like, vibrantly orange.

[Kanise Mobley]

That. This is the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, I watched every best Picture winner, okay. Like that. It was something I eventually decided. I was like, yeah, there's. I only. There's only like 15 or 20 at this point. I'm gonna watch them just, you know, I'll just go back and I'll clear off every. And I. When I got to out of Africa, I was truly like, this should only be watched if you want to watch every. Like, it's like the most homework ass. You're just like.

[David Sims]

But that's sort of.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what people like it. A lot of us shouldn't, you know.

[David Sims]

Like this year, 2025 Oscars, where people are like, it doesn't feel like there's a front runner. You're like, something has to win by default.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Something will be anointed. The best picture of 2025.

[Griffin Newman]

The other nominees for best Picture, Kiss of the Spider Woman, Pretzy's Honor, which is a movie I watched recently. Have you ever seen Pretzy's Honor?

[David Sims]

You love it, right?

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

Oh, really?

[Griffin Newman]

You think I put it on thinking I was gonna love it. I was like, John Houston, Jack Nicholson, Angelica Houston.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Kathleen Turner, mob comedy. How is this going to be best bad? It starts up and you're like, this is like, I'm. I think I'm expecting, like, Moonstruck with the mob. Right? Like, I'm like, big 80s Italian movie where everyone's like, you know, being a.

[David Sims]

Giving a big performance or even married to the mob.

[Griffin Newman]

Even married to them.

[David Sims]

Even married to the mom.

[Griffin Newman]

It is so, like, leaden and dull. And you watch it and you're like, what the fuck was everyone smoking? That this was considered good. Like, and again, all the people involved are good. Although Nicholson is sort of trying to do like a Brooklyn accent. Oh, great. And like, so Angelica Houston wins supporting actress that year. And it was kind of this. I think the narrative for her was like, one we love Angelica Houston, great actor, but it was like she got her way into John Houston's movie. He didn't want to put her in it. And she fought to be in the movie anyway because he's her father.

[David Sims]

So the other narrative was that it was this sort of like, what was her first movie again?

[Griffin Newman]

Her angel. Houston's first movie, A Walk with Love and Death.

[David Sims]

I think she was so thoroughly trashed in that movie. So it's like a comeback for her ultimate Nepo. Baby, Baby. He cast his daughter. He's so enamored with her. She sucks in this. You go away where, like, she kind of won the Oscar in like a kind of clapback of like, okay, look, she fought her way into another movie, right?

[Griffin Newman]

She's fine in the movie. Like, she's good even. I guess she's very glamorous. And like, I love Angelica Houston, but again, I was watching it being like. And now she's about. There's gonna be some big scene.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then you watch the Color Purple and you're like, both Oprah Winfrey and Margaret Avery have like, like, scenes where you're like, holy, you know, like, you know, how did this not win an Oscar? Didn't win.

[David Sims]

Answer is probably if one or the other had been nominated, they probably would have won.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe, right? Maybe.

[David Sims]

Maybe.

[Griffin Newman]

Obviously, both deserved nominations.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Whoopi Goldberg loses to Geraldine Page for the trip to Bountiful.

[Kanise Mobley]

What?

[David Sims]

Which is kind of seen as a shock. Whoopi won the Golden Globe. I mean, like, you read Ebert's review and he's like, whoopi Goldberg is going to win the Oscar. Like, everyone was sort of like, this is an undeniable.

[Griffin Newman]

Which she should have.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

Who is this other person and what is this other movie? I'm sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

Geraldine Page is like this legendary old American actress, and it was like a late career movie. And so kind of like, you know, she's. Look, I've never seen it, so I don't want to make fun of it.

[David Sims]

But it's like I feel like you.

[Kanise Mobley]

Don'T want to make fun of it, but you. That's how you would describe the movie, of course. Okay. And that's the one that won Best actress. Gotcha.

[David Sims]

The 80s were not great for the Academy Awards, but I feel like this was, in particular, a real recurrence, which was, like, what wins Best Actress or Best Supporting Actress? And it's like a legendary beloved, like, sort of like legend of the stage, who had a movie career but was never fully a movie star and was always a little bit, like, take it for granted. But everyone in the industry loved. And then they, like, show up with a carpet bag in a movie at 85, and people are like, fine, here you go.

[Kanise Mobley]

Get to take it.

[David Sims]

F. Marie Abraham gives her the Oscar. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

That would make sense.

[David Sims]

This is the moment I remember. I've never seen Trip to the Bountiful, but.

[Griffin Newman]

To Bountiful.

[David Sims]

Trip to Bountiful.

[Griffin Newman]

Weirdly, Anne Bancroft, also nominated that year, like, sarcastically goes like, Geraldine Page when she's in that. Like, she knew it was going to happen, which is funny.

[Kanise Mobley]

Anyway, what was Anne Bancroft nominated for?

[Griffin Newman]

Agnes of God. Oh, sure, the Norman Jewison noir movie. Never seen it.

[David Sims]

Anyway, I think Whoopi was sort of seen as the front runner.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And F. Murray Abraham is presenting as last year's winner, and he opens the envelope and he, like, catches his breath and he says something vermp to the effect of, like, it is my great honor to be able to bestow this act, this Academy Award, to, in my opinion, the greatest actor alive, Geraldine Page. There is, like, this sense of like, we are finally giving this woman respect for a movie that will never be watched ever.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right. She was a big actor who'd been nominated for a bunch of Oscars, and she's a great actor. Like, I got no beef with Geraldine Page, just that the trivia bounce ball kind of looks like a movie where ladies go. That's all. That's all I'm saying. And I don't know if it's true or not. For all I know, it's actually about Geraldine Page is like, a badass action hero who's got to get to Bountiful, the villains lair.

[David Sims]

I mean, Whoopi wins for Ghost. Five years later, she does.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's obviously, like, a dynamite supporting performance that she might have won for anyway. But there is, I think, an element of, like, oh, she's overdue, but the.

[David Sims]

Five years in between, she makes a lot of, like, comedy vehicles, becomes, like, a successful, bankable movie star in the sort of, like, Whoopi Goldberg Persona that she has crafted for herself and then talks about how hard she had to fight to get cast in Ghost because they were like, well, you're not a serious actress now. Like, within five years, they were like, whoopi Goldberg's gonna make this feel like a comedy. And it's like she was in the Color Purple.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's just. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

The Trip to Bountiful is actually a revenge war movie.

[David Sims]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

They killed her squad. Now she's gonna get them all. This is for the lieutenant. No. What is. I don't know what the triple battle is about.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, you know what, drama?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna watch Sidney Pollock's remake of Sabrina. I'm gonna watch. Watch the Trip to Bountiful. I'm gonna do the work.

[Kanise Mobley]

Truly don't like. If you don't like it, I don't want you to be like, kenise doesn't know.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, you're gonna have to give me your phone number, and I will text you.

[Kanise Mobley]

Give you my phone number. We can. I. You know what?

[Griffin Newman]

Let's be friends.

[Kanise Mobley]

Let's be friends.

[Griffin Newman]

I think you're cool too.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay. But, yeah, let's all be friends.

[Griffin Newman]

But I. I hope that me.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, totally.

[David Sims]

I'm gonna say this to you in all honesty, K. Sabrina is one of those movies that much like you're saying, I just hear everyone go, like. And obviously that's sucks. It's just stated as, like, well, it's a given. Of course. We all know that was terrible.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And every time I see, like, a clip from it, I'm like, I think I would like this.

[Ben Hosley]

She's a teenage witch. What's not the love?

[David Sims]

I am not.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a quiz master. She's got two ends. The cat talk.

[Ben Hosley]

The cat talks?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Her boyfriend's name is Harvey. That's because that was the name of the comic imprint. No. I have always thought, like, I bet I would like this if I saw this. And I've been worried to watch it because I think people are so dismissive of it.

[Kanise Mobley]

Let yourself like it.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You ever think about how in Sabrina, she's got the friend with the red hair in season one, and then they recast the actor or they're new character in season two, she just gets a new friend.

[Kanise Mobley]

Are you talking about Melissa Joan Hart's Sabrina the Teenage Witch? Because there was another one with that chick who was in Mad Men.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, that's true. There was the Netflix one that was like, Sabrina, the Dark Witch of the gothic Gothicness. No, I'm talking about the sitcom.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay, cool, cool, cool.

[Griffin Newman]

There is an amazing, like, I tick tock that I found once of like, you know, out of pocket moments from sitcoms that no one noticed at the time where, like, you know, there's the ants, Hilda and Zelda, right? Carolyn Ray and the other one. And Hilda's like, oh, man, we haven't fought this much since we picked opposite sides of the Civil War. It's like, what is that down at that slip through. So wait, which one were you. Wait a second.

[Kanise Mobley]

Did you.

[David Sims]

Marie was. Was working on the Checkbook. The Blink Check newsletter on Substack. Subscribe if you haven't already. And was talking about, in relation to our Twin Peaks Episode 8 conversation, what are the most insane things broadcast on television? Right? And I was like, everyone's throwing out like obvious examples. And I was like, that night where TGIF traveled through time and everyone else in the thread was like, what the are you talking about?

[Kanise Mobley]

I don't remember this.

[David Sims]

You remember that historic night where the entire TGIF lineup ended up time traveling and I had to unpack this and be like, let me make sure I'm not getting this wrong.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

There was an. I think Sabrina was the first. And Salem.

[Griffin Newman]

And Sabrina is a sorceress.

[David Sims]

Salem cast like a bad spell in an orb, created a time travel.

[Griffin Newman]

He eats a magic time ball.

[David Sims]

Okay. He eats a magic time ball. And the. Yes, the Sabrina episode that night was set in the 60s with Sabrina leading second wave feminism.

[Kanise Mobley]

Good for her.

[David Sims]

And has like bra burning jokes. And then all the like Boy Meets World was about like Corey shipping out for the Vietnam War. Am I wrong about this? For the Korean War?

[Griffin Newman]

I can tell you that. The episode was called no Guts, no Corey.

[David Sims]

Every episode started with Salem walking onto the set of a different show and then it going. And then they ended up in a different time period.

[Kanise Mobley]

This sounds lovely.

[David Sims]

It was insane.

[Griffin Newman]

Salem had so much attitude. That cat was silly. I love that cat.

[David Sims]

Let's play Box Office game.

[Griffin Newman]

This film came out Christmas time 1985 and limited release. So we're going to do this limited release, but no, it's semi limited. It's opening at number eight. $1.7 million on 192 screens.

[David Sims]

It made $98 million domestic.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a big hit considering it's 94 million. But yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

I mean, how much did the musical remake?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you know what? It was one of the weirdest box office performances ever, that musical remake, because it like made like $20 million on like day one. And then fell off really fast. It was one of those things where like, lots of church groups and like community groups had bought tickets on mass for like Christmas or whenever Christmas Day.

[David Sims]

They like, they planned out really well. It's. It's one of the weirdest, disproportionate, like 45 of its entire gross happened in 24 hours.

[Griffin Newman]

$18 million on Christmas Day and it.

[David Sims]

Ends up like 45.

[Griffin Newman]

Ended up at 60.

[David Sims]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Griffin Newman]

But.

[Kanise Mobley]

But still not as much as its predecessor. 30 years.

[David Sims]

And if you like adjust for inflation. Color Purple. Like perform like American Sniper.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Did like Transformers Snipers.

[Kanise Mobley]

I like that. That's the first one we go.

[David Sims]

It was the highest grossing PG13 movie of that year. PG13 being a new rating, number one.

[Griffin Newman]

At the box office is a sequel. It's been out for a month. It is still number one at the box office. I think it might have been the highest grossing in this series.

[David Sims]

It's not Star Trek 4, is it?

[Griffin Newman]

After the first one? Nope.

[David Sims]

No, it's the highest grossing after. Oh, it's Rocky 4.

[Griffin Newman]

Rocky 4.

[David Sims]

It is the highest grossing.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it the highest grossing even including Rocky?

[David Sims]

Maybe unadjusted. Unadjusted, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe unadjusted.

[David Sims]

Unadjusted is the highest curse.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you seen Rocky 4?

[Kanise Mobley]

No, I saw any Rocky.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, sure.

[Kanise Mobley]

And then I've seen Creeds. Yeah, well, not the most recent one. Well, it's okay. So I had a crush on Jonathan Majors for a very long time and then I. It turns out he's bad. So I.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. So now you're like, do I even want to engage with Pre Cancelled?

[Kanise Mobley]

Because, like, I know he's bad, but my pussy doesn't.

[Griffin Newman]

And so you're allowed to say okay on Blank Check. I mean, like, people can yell at you, but we'll stop them.

[David Sims]

David and I have talked about a lot how fascinating it is that that movie came out, was a really big hit, was well liked. People were like, michael B. Jordan's a good director. He pulled it off stuff. And like Jonathan Majors, here's finally. They've been hyping him up for years. This is the performance that makes him kind of undeniable. And then like all the goes down like within three weeks after the movie had already made $150 million.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a huge success.

[David Sims]

Basically agreed upon that we were never going to acknowledge the movie ever again. Talking about Quantumania as like a problem. But it's not forgotten. Creed 3 feels like it's been memory holes.

[Griffin Newman]

Majors is. Is good in that Movie. He's very good in it. But, like, that movie is great outside of him.

[Kanise Mobley]

Will Michael B. Jordan ever get to direct again?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

He's doing. He's doing a Thomas Crown Fair remake, which is the thing he's been attached to do for over a decade. He's finally doing it. It's exciting.

[Kanise Mobley]

They're making another Thomas Crown.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Kanise Mobley]

So I. I think one of the times I wrote you the most enthusiastically was when you covered the Thomas Crown affair. And I was like. I posted that. I was like, truly one of the best days of my life. I love this so much. It's my interest converging in a way that causes me deep joy and happiness. And then you had someone from ringer verse on who was Amanda Dobbins. Amanda Dobbins. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Ben Hosley]

Denise and I were chatting before you guys got here, and you said something about that movie that was really encouraging, which is it instilled to be excited about becoming 40.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah. Cause it's a right. It's a 40 something romance. It's a 40 something Roman out looking great.

[Kanise Mobley]

I saw that as a young teenager and I was like, that's the age.

[David Sims]

I got something to look forward to.

[Kanise Mobley]

I've always wanted to, like. I brought Truly in that. She wears two outfits that stuck with me to the point where I bought a powder blue pantsuit and wore it with a white turtleneck folded down. And she also. This is the scene when she interrogates Thomas Crown. Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

This is.

[Kanise Mobley]

I'm sorry.

[Ben Hosley]

So there's still time for me to become a master thief.

[Kanise Mobley]

There is still time for you to become a master thief. In fact, that was his, like, first time as master thief. I think he, like, planned a few things practicing, but then he did this art heist at the Met and it was his first time, so it could be your first time.

[Griffin Newman]

Popped his cherry.

[Kanise Mobley]

He pop, I like you, art thief cherry.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I like you too.

[Kanise Mobley]

You're. You're a cool guy.

[David Sims]

I don't. I'm you.

[Griffin Newman]

You've given me like 18 compliments. It's like, I don't like it. Too nice to me.

[Kanise Mobley]

Why?

[Griffin Newman]

No, I'm joking.

[David Sims]

Yeah, well, if we start talking about Shamalan, then she'll flip in the opposite direction.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, boy.

[David Sims]

Those are when I get the angry message messages from you where you're like, what the are you guys talking about?

[Kanise Mobley]

You guys sound insane right now. And also you, because you originally you wrote me and you were like, hey, do you want to do who was the last one that you guys released?

[Griffin Newman]

David Lynch.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes. You were like, is there a David lynch film that you want to do? And I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I absolutely hate David. I couldn't possibly. I, like, I love you guys podcast. Like, I feel like cancer. Who's like, been given a makeup, a wish or something, just. But then you were like, oh, but it has to be with David. I was like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm gonna have to give that. Make a wish back. I absolutely couldn't even if I tried.

[David Sims]

We planned so far in advance.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

That often when it's like, we are overdue, we need to get you on. Can I show you what we have right now? And if there's nothing here, I promise I'll circle back in, like five months. But it does mean that there's often a long gap. And then even if it's like five months later, it's like, great. The one you picked is five months from now.

[Kanise Mobley]

Hell, yeah. Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I always prefer to, like, wait for what feels like.

[Kanise Mobley]

I really appreciate that.

[David Sims]

I was never going to. Yes. What else is in the. The top five, David?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, back to the box office game. Number two at the box office is a sequel. A terrible sequel to a film. We have covered. We have not covered the sequel, nor ever shall we.

[David Sims]

We never shall.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think so.

[David Sims]

We never shall. We covered a maid feed.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Covered the original.

[David Sims]

We covered the original. Is it a jaw sequel?

[Griffin Newman]

Nope. Because I could see us doing a Jaws patreon. I mean, that's good.

[David Sims]

I mean, that's a little deep, I.

[Griffin Newman]

Feel like, for us, but, you know, you never.

[David Sims]

We're never gonna. How. This is number two.

[Griffin Newman]

Two of two.

[David Sims]

Two of two.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. The series ends here.

[David Sims]

The series ends here. Definitively. Same stars.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Not the same director, though, obviously. No. And can you give me a genre?

[Griffin Newman]

Adventure romance.

[David Sims]

Oh, it's. This is the.

[Griffin Newman]

It keeps coming up.

[David Sims]

It sucks. Sucks. It's.

[Griffin Newman]

It does.

[David Sims]

Lewis Teague film Jewel of the Nile.

[Griffin Newman]

The Jewel of the Nile, the sequel to Roberts and Mekis's Romancing this.

[Kanise Mobley]

I remember Romance in the Stone. Does it still have Kathleen Turner DeVito's back?

[David Sims]

Yeah. It is so bad. It is so bad.

[Kanise Mobley]

What happened to her after, like, Serial Mom.

[David Sims]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

I. That's a Serial mom is a good shout as, like, a great later performance for her. Like, I feel like, like, that is kind of the end.

[David Sims]

She's.

[Griffin Newman]

She had already kind of run out of thread by that point. I feel like Serial mom is John Waters being like, Kathleen sort of rocks. Like, why isn't she in a more.

[David Sims]

She has very severe arthritis.

[Griffin Newman]

She does.

[David Sims]

But that's.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like that came on later. Like, I feel like she's already kind of lost some movie star juices by the 90s.

[David Sims]

I, I think a lot of that is unfortunately, despite everything that Renee Russo tried to teach us, Hollywood's well established prejudice against women over the age of 40. There's shit also like the. What's it called, Vi Wachowski, where she like adapted that book series. That was like a long running book series. And it was like, this is going to be her sort of like Dirty Harry series. And that one didn't perform and it was a like, oh, people don't want women in action movies kind of like there. But then early 2000, she did the Graduate on Broadway and I felt like.

[Griffin Newman]

It was on the West End and it was. She got naked and everyone was like, like was truly one of those things where like the British press was like, she is naked in this thing. It's on page.

[Kanise Mobley]

The Brits love nudity, don't they? Have it on my channel galore.

[Griffin Newman]

The whole thing, you're British is you move there.

[David Sims]

I'm British.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're like in Britain. And now this isn't true anymore because this finally got done away with. But like in the old red tabloids, the red top tabloids, on page three there was a, a nude woman whose breasts were revealed.

[David Sims]

The page three girls.

[Griffin Newman]

The page three girls. Literally, it was like, you sick. Can only make it one. You, you, you refuse to turn like pages.

[David Sims]

If you get past the COVID Yeah. Then you get tits at least in your peripheral vision.

[Kanise Mobley]

And, and, and you were like, they.

[Griffin Newman]

And I'm like as a little boy, I'm like, what is it? And yet at the same time, right, if you like say tits, British people are like, wait a second, what are you talking about? Crazy right now. Yeah, it's just the weird kind of there stuff.

[Kanise Mobley]

But they were upset that she had her.

[Griffin Newman]

They weren't upset, they were just thrilled.

[Kanise Mobley]

They were like, we got to buy tickets.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

She did it on Broadway and then.

[Kanise Mobley]

She did on Broadway, I believe.

[David Sims]

So she did Virginia Wolf as well, right, didn't she?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yes, she did.

[David Sims]

I think I feel like she had a 2000s. Like, you know what? Hollywood's turned their back on me. I'm going to like take on great roles on stage and I believe one a Tony for something at some point.

[Griffin Newman]

At least was not nominated for it.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

I just like her voice so much.

[David Sims]

I did, too. She was supposed to do George Lucas talk show recently.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, really?

[David Sims]

Said she's gonna reschedule and do it again soon. But I was very.

[Griffin Newman]

What was the connection? Like, what. What's the. Is there a George Lucas project she wants to discuss?

[David Sims]

Well, what Connor loves to talk about is that George Lucas produced Body Heat but took his name off of it because he thought people wouldn't think a movie was sexy if George Lucas's name was. It was sort of the Mel Brooks thing.

[Griffin Newman]

All right, so number three, the box office Griffin. Now, this might have been a porch classic. Ben, I've got a porch classic alert.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

This one never actually checked in. Not a director. A director we already badmouthed on this episode. But he's made comedy hits.

[David Sims]

John Landis, Spies Like Us.

[Griffin Newman]

Spies like us, yeah. Chevy and Dan Aykroyd.

[Ben Hosley]

No, I've never seen it.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, I've heard of it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. It's not a good movie.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I've never seen it.

[Griffin Newman]

Great poster.

[David Sims]

Great poster.

[Kanise Mobley]

They're wearing, like, furry hats.

[David Sims]

Yes. Yeah. In the snow.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like kind of like for everyone involved, like them sort of looking for better days. Right. Like Landis, Chevy Ackroyd.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Spies Like Us, number four at the box office is the best picture winning. I already explained it. Out of Africa, new this week. Number five at the box office. I think we've discussed this film before, so we must have done a. We must have done something in this time frame recently because a couple of these are very familiar. It's a Christmas film, and it's, like, about, like. Like one of the main Christmas guys.

[David Sims]

Is it Santa Claus the movie?

[Kanise Mobley]

What is Santa Claus the movie?

[Griffin Newman]

Because I feel like we recently talked about this.

[David Sims]

That.

[Griffin Newman]

So I was like, no one's ever actually just done a movie about Santa Claus.

[David Sims]

The weird producers of the Christopher Reeve Superman movies were like, we just had the greatest idea of all time. Santa Claus the movie. And you're like, what makes it the movie? And they're like, us saying it is us putting a title on the poster.

[Griffin Newman]

That implies, like, we got the right Santa Claus.

[David Sims]

For the first time ever, official Santa Claus.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay. What type of Santa Claus is this? It's not like a. The Santa Claus.

[Griffin Newman]

Dudley Moore. Right.

[David Sims]

But Dudley Moore plays an elf.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

And, like, John Lithgow plays a businessman who hates Christmas or some.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sure he had to reach really hard.

[David Sims]

Who plays Santa? Like, a third of the budget was paid for by Coca Cola. And McDonald's, I think.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay.

[David Sims]

It's like a notorious disaster.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I don't think it made a lot of money. I just remember when I was a kid, some other kid telling me, like, you've never seen Santa Claus the movie. It's like the movie about Santa Claus. And I was like, what are you. David Huddleston plays Santa Claus.

[David Sims]

There we go.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, very Santa like me.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I. I soft pitched recently. A Patreon series called Christmas. Cole Worst depictions of Santa. Who else is my pitch for the four? Okay, I'm not going in chronological order here. Santa Claus the Movie. Fred Claus. Santa Claus Conquers the Martians.

[Kanise Mobley]

What? Yeah. I've never heard that mouth.

[David Sims]

Legendary bean movie. One of the most insane movies ever made.

[Ben Hosley]

I sampled it in one of my slow Christmas albums.

[David Sims]

There we go.

[Ben Hosley]

And I watched a little bit of it. It's very absurd.

[David Sims]

And of course, the reason for the season, the movie I walked out of and said, attention must be paid. I must, I must break this movie down. Is Red 1 the worst film ever made?

[Kanise Mobley]

The worst film ever made.

[David Sims]

It's. I.

[Griffin Newman]

It's obviously inspiration, right?

[David Sims]

Red One, I think it represents an idea for culture.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm excited.

[David Sims]

I don't think it's the worst movie, but I think in a lot of ways it is the greatest distillation of.

[Griffin Newman]

Everything that's been making a lot of pronouncements recently. I'm just gonna say that.

[Kanise Mobley]

Is it like some movies are? I know they're not going to be good, but I like to take like half of an edible and get the big tub. I love that experience of watching a bad movie while eating caramel popcorn while a little bit hot. Would this be good for that? Or would I, even from that experience, walk away, like, upset?

[David Sims]

I think it. I think it would upset you.

[Kanise Mobley]

Damn.

[David Sims]

I think it would upset. I think there are things in it that would genuinely upset you, especially in a modified state like that.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

All right, six to ten. We've got White Knights, the Taylor Hackford Ballet movie with Heinz and Baryshnikov. The big two. We've got a Disney re release of 101 Dalmatians, one of your daughter's favorite movies. She has a huge phase with that movie she has not watched in a while. But she loved Cruella. She was very, I mean, not to.

[David Sims]

Be clear, not like her actions.

[Griffin Newman]

Not Craig Gillespie's film. Cruella. She liked Cruella in the movie. She called her the Grumpy Queen.

[Kanise Mobley]

But she should see Cruella.

[Griffin Newman]

Then we'll get to it. Right now, it's start.

[David Sims]

Doesn't your daughter have a bunch of questions?

[Griffin Newman]

Can I.

[David Sims]

About why did Cruella pretend to hate dogs?

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Kanise Mobley]

Where she came from. Why her hair's dead like that. Where she got the code.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah. She wants to know the origins of. Right. Did a dog knock her mom off a cliff? Or whatever happens in that movie. My daughter right now, unfortunately, it's all Frozen.

[Kanise Mobley]

They watched it just one or Frozen one and two.

[Griffin Newman]

This is what I want to tell you. So both. She likes both, but she distinguishes them by. There's the regular Frozen as she refers to, which is Frozen one and then frozen with the pants. Because she one point told me that princesses wear dresses. And I was like, princesses don't have to wear dresses. They can wear pants. And she was like, princesses wear dresses. And I was like, elsa wears pants in Frozen 2. Remember when she runs into the water, she's wearing pants. And she was like, show me that right now. And I like. I like, queued it up and I showed it to her, and she watched it and she was like, she is wearing pants. I agree with you. And so now she will specifically be like, I want Frozen with the pants. And I'll be like, but you want it from the beginning, right? Because she's not gonna wear pants until an hour into this thing.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And she's like, right now, like Disney. Disney Animation headquarters, they're playing this back and they're like, okay, fuck, we never thought of this. What are we doing for part three?

[Griffin Newman]

Because my daughter likes to sometimes put a dress on. Any dress. It just has to be. And then just dance around to music. And then we. We clap and she bows.

[Kanise Mobley]

Oh, nice.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very great. Very cute. But. But, you know, still trying. Trying to just get her, you know, get her away from the thought of, like, girls wear dresses and princesses, they.

[David Sims]

Just need to make a big bottom wear Choice for Frozen 3 at all. If they fuck this up, the whole thing is going to crumble.

[Kanise Mobley]

It's frozen, but tropical. It's like a whole thing. And then they got. They have shorts on. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And so she does love 101 nomations number eight, color purple number nine, enemy mine. A movie I've been thinking about a lot because Andy Samberg on the Glowing Line podcast keeps talking about how he would try to work it into sketches.

[Kanise Mobley]

What is that?

[Griffin Newman]

It's like. I know. They eventually got it in. It's this Ro Wing Peterson movie about, like, a human and an alien get stranded on A planet together.

[David Sims]

Quaid and Lewis Gosa Jr.

[Griffin Newman]

When Louis Gossett Jr. Is in like alien makeup. Jr. Like coming off an Oscar, it's.

[Kanise Mobley]

Like I definitely had mentally switched that around.

[David Sims]

Okay, so he's, he's the alien, like bearded Quaid and Lou, like, yeah. Collecting his like post Oscar, like and, and the crux of the movie is like these two different species stranded on a planet together, sort of surviving. And then I, I think I can say this because it's what the cultural reputation of the movie is. The sort of twist is that it turns out that he is able to become pregnant.

[Kanise Mobley]

The alien.

[Griffin Newman]

I need to see it. I need to see anyone.

[Kanise Mobley]

And he gets pregnant.

[David Sims]

They have a child, I believe.

[Kanise Mobley]

So they, they.

[David Sims]

This is what I'm trying to remember.

[Kanise Mobley]

We don't see that though.

[David Sims]

I don't think so.

[Kanise Mobley]

You don't think so?

[Griffin Newman]

So I gotta watch it. All right, so Sabrina, Enemy mine. What was the other thing I'm watching? Oh, Trip to Bountiful.

[Kanise Mobley]

I gotta check it out.

[David Sims]

Red one, red one.

[Griffin Newman]

I am gonna watch it. Number 10 is a chorus Line, which I feel like was not the hit they wanted it to be. That's Richard Attenborough post Gandhi being like, I'm gonna adapt the biggest hit on Broadway ever. And it like did okay.

[David Sims]

You know, I had to peace so badly. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Well, we've been talking for way too long.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, no. We had a great guest. Not way too long.

[Kanise Mobley]

That's very nice and kind of you. I do want to say before we wrap things up. No, I, I, I don't, I didn't drink enough water to. So I, I intentionally dehydrated myself so that I wouldn't have to. Yeah. Cuz you guys, I, I listen to the pod. I know you guys go so long. So I was like, do not fill up on water. You're gonna have to pee. The person who plays Nettie as a child does some of the weirdest acting I've ever seen in my life. And I, I'm sorry. It caught me so off guard that I thought felt irresponsible not mentioning it. Yeah, I just needed to know, like I needed to say when she screams, waves her hands in the air. And that's supposed to be a big pivotal moment of emotionality from these two characters. I said I must mention this on the podcast. And that's it.

[David Sims]

It's worth calling out, especially because he is historically very good with children.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes. It might, it might speak to the fundamental. He might not just totally have A grasp on the character.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay. Sorry. That's. I want you to pee. I want you to have the ability to go pee.

[David Sims]

Kanece. Thank you so much.

[Kanise Mobley]

Thank you so much for having me. You guys are. This is. This is a dream come true. Thanks, guys.

[David Sims]

You're the best. It's. It took far too long. Anything. Anything specific you want to plug?

[Kanise Mobley]

Follow me on the websites that we all follow each other on. Obviously, if we've dated. I'm sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

Come on.

[Kanise Mobley]

Actually, I'm not sorry. I was a nice lady to date.

[David Sims]

Okay, you use this platform to say this.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, I was a nice lady to date. I'm a good cook. I do stuff. I'm like a. A reasonable person, and you guys were fine. We're not compatible.

[David Sims]

There we go.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I want to hear all I.

[David Sims]

I have, and maybe even. You're welcome. Maybe. Let's throw your welcome out there. If you're listening to this show. You dated Kinese. You're welcome.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah. And you don't write me about this on Instagram.

[David Sims]

Don't do that. Don't do it.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay, you can, but we're not gonna get back together. That's just not gonna happen.

[Griffin Newman]

You're doing a hot guy draft. We already did it.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay, so this is my birthday thing, and I love it so much, and you guys are all invited. Well, not the listeners. I'm talking to the people in the show. Okay, so every year, we do a Hawkeye draft, and I put polls up online, and people vote to say who the Hawkeyes are and what they should be ranked on a scale of 1 to 5. Then we take those people, we divide them into three tiers. Some people get, like, green, silver, or gold stickers. They represent one, three, or five points. And you have to make a team of 15 points. It's very, very silly. People who work in sports media do come, and they are the commissioners for this draft, and it's really fun. And we decide who is the hottest. We make teams. We yell at each other. We have, like, very. It's. It's super silly. It's my favorite thing in the world.

[David Sims]

Who won last year?

[Kanise Mobley]

So this year for my birthday, or it was last year, 2024. Okay, so 2024, it was a team of Denzel Washington, Yaya Abdul, Mateen, Simulu Sade, and fifth person that I can't remember. But that was the winning team of hotness. The lesbian team was really mad that every. Are you okay?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm fine.

[Kanise Mobley]

It was a team of lesbians, and they made a Team and nobody else liked who they said was hot. It was like they were on an island.

[Griffin Newman]

Social experience.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You're doing the work, Kanice.

[Kanise Mobley]

I, I, I, I majored in psychology. This is my experiments with human behavior and thought. And I love it so much.

[David Sims]

Everyone, everyone look out for that. I'll certainly be following very closely this year. Thank you for being here. Thank you all for listening. Tune in next week for Empire of the Sun.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Kind of an odd double down from Spielberg.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it is a slightly better movie, but, but also. Yeah, not perfect in my opinion. Him striving for the kind of serious movie he will eventually make better.

[Kanise Mobley]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you seen it?

[David Sims]

Yes, I have.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Excited to see it again. I've only seen it once over on the Patreon.

[Ben Hosley]

Coming up in a few days, we have a bonus Spielberg episode we're doing about Twilight the movie.

[Kanise Mobley]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Just his part.

[David Sims]

His.

[Griffin Newman]

But his part's really bad.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Kanise Mobley]

Okay.

[David Sims]

And amazing stories Ridge, which are better. Yeah. His more amazing story segments and doing Star Trek next gen. Or are we still.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we are in the middle of that Star Trek incorrection. Oh, the one where they're on the planet where people don't age and Picard gets a crush.

[David Sims]

F Marie Abraham.

[Griffin Newman]

F. Marie Abraham is there. Do you like Star Trek and East?

[David Sims]

No, that's fine.

[Griffin Newman]

You just seemed interested, so I was.

[Kanise Mobley]

Like, I am interested. My mom loves, loves Star Trek. My mom's like this weird, cool person where she likes Star Trek and she's on bowling and pool leagues and so I like, want to be cool to my mom, I guess.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That's not automatically cool to all people.

[Kanise Mobley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, sometimes I like, try to pick up on things that are going on in the Star Trek world so I can, like, be cool to my mom.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that's like how I'll say to my dad, like, I heard a Someone hit a ball yesterday. Huh? Another hoop.

[Griffin Newman]

Did you know Khadisa is a twin?

[David Sims]

I did know this, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

She just revealed that to me.

[David Sims]

Anyway, where and when? What do you were here yet?

[Kanise Mobley]

You weren't here yet. You were chatting.

[Griffin Newman]

Goodbye.

[David Sims]

Bye.

[Kanise Mobley]

Thanks.

[Griffin Newman]

We love you.

[David Sims]

And as always, we've talked a lot about the color purple for nearly three hours. But I would just like to take this final opportunity on Mike to recenter the real focus, the color red.

[Griffin Newman]

Red one red Hulk. Oh, yeah. Hail to the chief.

[David Sims]

Hail to the chief.

[Ben Hosley]

Blank check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley, our Creative Producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our Associate producer is AJ McKeen. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithee, research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy show it. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.