The Tragedy of Macbeth with Dana Schwartz

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David

Episode: The Tragedy of Macbeth (with Dana Schwartz)
Date: November 23, 2025
Hosts: Griffin Newman, David Sims
Guest: Dana Schwartz

Episode Overview

This episode tackles Joel Coen’s The Tragedy of Macbeth (2021), examining its production, performances, Shakespeare adaptations in general, and how it fits into the Coen filmography. The hosts and guest Dana Schwartz (author and host of “Noble Blood") dig into the movie’s origins, artistic choices, COVID-era context, and the always-fascinating “curse” of Macbeth. The conversation ranges widely, brimming with Blank Check’s signature blend of deep film nerdery, comedy, and tangents on everything from pandemic memories to Halloween costumes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter & Macbeth in Pop Culture (00:01–02:09)

• The crew jokes about how quotable Macbeth is (“Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow…”—which makes it onto IMDb quotes only after someone copy-pastes it).
• Dana notes the Coens tweaked a Lady Macbeth line about having children, “They shifted a tense that I was like, ah, they're making a choice” (01:25).
• Immediately Blank Check-y: riffing on pop culture and memory confusion from the COVID years.

2. Pandemic Production Stories (02:10–06:25)

• The movie was interrupted mid-shoot by COVID-19, with sets left as-is, then resumed months later.
  • Griffin: “They truly just, like, did what you said, where they were like, ‘okay, let's just, like, drop the lights where they are, expressionist sets. We'll be back in like, a week.’ And then they resumed filming in July” (04:06).
• Joel Coen’s visual choices (stark, minimal, easy for a bubble production) are shaped by circumstance but feel organic.

3. Tragedy of Macbeth’s Awards Run, Reception, & Performances (09:23–14:44)

• The group discusses the film’s “polite” reception, Oscar nominations, and particularly praises Kathryn Hunter’s witch performance.
  • David: "We gave Katherine Hunter best supporting Actress at the New York Film Critics Circle….No one else really bothered to award her anything, so I felt even better about it" (09:19).
• Hot takes: Dana finds Denzel Washington and Frances McDormand her “two least favorite performances.”
  • Dana: “I think my two least favorite performances in this movie are Denzel and Frances” (12:10).
• Other cast shout-outs: Alex Hassell (Ross) and Corey Hawkins (Macduff) are especially strong.

4. Macbeth in the Coen Canon & Shakespeare in General (06:36–09:09; 13:59–19:41)

• The episode highlights how this is the first time Blank Check is covering a straight Shakespeare adaptation.
• Joel Coen’s first solo film presents an opportunity to examine his directorial identity outside the Coen siblings’ collaborative effort.

5. Ross’s Role and the Third Murderer (15:03–16:19; 108:16–110:13)

• A major discussion centers on the expanded, mythic role of Ross (Alex Hassell).
  • Dana: “What I think is kind of one of the most interesting things about this movie is Alex Hassell's role. He plays Ross, who, if you see a production of Macbeth, you would be forgiven for being like, I don't know what that is.” (15:07)
• They applaud the choice to have Ross serve as the mysterious Third Murderer, giving the part dramatic heft.

6. Shakespearean Geekery & Personal histories (21:13–26:06)

• Dana and David recall performing in college/life productions (“I was Puck in A Midsummer Night’s Dream in high school. I wore a sparkly green sweater” – David, 22:22).
• Detailed digression on the Globe Theatre, Shakespeare conspiracy theories, and notable hoaxes.

7. The Macbeth Curse & Theater Superstition (45:55–51:21)

• The hosts riff on the legend that uttering “Macbeth” in a theater (or podcast studio) is bad luck.
  • Griffin: “...if you say Macbeth in a podcast studio, you are trapped to endorse brain powders for 20 years and get caught in the manosphere” (46:59).
• Amusing debates over the logistics of the curse and theater rules.

8. Scripts, Visual Style, and Technical Craft (84:19–90:54)

• In-depth discussion of the movie’s German Expressionist aesthetic:
  • “He wanted something that felt otherworldly.”
  • Props, sets, and costumes were all constructed in grayscale for the black-and-white shoot; extensive use of modular set pieces and invisible CGI.
• The chasm between the movie’s formal/visual achievement and its icy emotional tone is frequently discussed (90:36):
  • David: “At a certain point you worry that your movie's gonna get lost a little bit in the technical…does it just become sort of this pretty thing for you to look at?”

9. Aging Macbeths: Interpretations & Thematic Resonance (57:39–73:53)

• How making Macbeth and Lady Macbeth notably older changes thematic gears:
  • Dana: "It is interesting and noteworthy that this is a production of Macbeth, where Lady Macbeth and Macbeth are explicitly past childbearing age, which I think informs the text in an interesting way.” (57:39).
  • Discussion on the “boomer sense of entitlement” when leaders refuse to step aside (72:11):
    • “It does reflect a modern hell we live in of people refusing to retire” – Griffin.
• The marriage in this adaptation, as with Shakespeare’s play, is unusually strong—destrict from most Shakespeare couples.

10. Critique of Frances McDormand's Lady Macbeth (110:50–114:55)

• Dana and David dissect why McDormand’s Lady Macbeth doesn’t land:
  • Dana: "What I don't maybe attach to so much in this performance... I don't think Frances McDormand has an interesting answer...it feels like a very modern marriage...I read her very much as just like a. A straight shooter, good partner. And yes, she is like telling Macbeth what to do. But she's not like being really wily about about it." (111:57)
• Desire for more subversiveness or sexual energy in the role; contrast to Denzel’s contained, naturalistic Macbeth.

11. Shakespearean Adaptations and the Visual / Emotional Balance (145:20–146:14)

• General consensus: the film is a technical marvel, at times overwhelming and beautiful on the big screen, but cold and emotionally distancing at home or on repeat.
• Looking forward to Joel Coen’s next solo work for a clearer sense of his distinct artistic voice.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

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• On the film’s tonal choices:
  • “There’s a freak out at the younger generation and a fundamental condescension of, ‘you guys just don’t get it.’” – Griffin (73:28)
• On Lady Macbeth’s performance:
  • “A Lady Macbeth that’s informed by either the 11th or the 17th century...has to be more subversive...I read [McDormand] as just...a straight shooter.” – Dana (111:57)
• On the “curse” of Macbeth:
  • “If you say Macbeth in a podcast studio, you are trapped to endorse brain powders for 20 years and get caught in the manosphere.” – Griffin (46:59)
• On what makes the Coen brothers special:
  • “When they’re together, it is the best shit on earth.” – Griffin (167:16)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|-------------------------------------------------------| | 00:01–02:09 | Opening banter, Macbeth IMDb jokes, COVID memory loss| | 04:09–06:25 | COVID interruption & technical production | | 09:23–14:44 | Awards season, performances, and the "polite" Oscar nod| | 13:59–19:41 | Discussing Ross as Third Murderer, character expansion | | 21:13–26:06 | Shakespeare personal histories, Globe Theater tangent | | 45:55–51:21 | "Macbeth curse" and theatrical superstition | | 57:39–73:53 | Aging Macbeths, thematic resonance, generational critique| | 84:19–90:54 | Visual style, modular sets, technical craft | | 110:50–114:55| Why Lady Macbeth doesn't land (performance analysis) | | 145:20–146:14| Emotional distance, visual triumph, anticipation for next Joel Coen project |

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Conclusion & Forward Look

The episode concludes with teases of upcoming episodes in the Coens mini-series and blanket hope that the Coen brothers reunite for future films. The hosts appreciate Joel’s formal prowess here but note a certain chilliness and lack of classic Coen humor or heart, making The Tragedy of Macbeth feel more like an impressive exercise than a fresh classic.

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Further Reading / Listening

• Dana Schwartz's podcasts: “Noble Blood” and “Hoax”
• Blank Check’s upcoming episodes: Driveway Dolls (with mxmtoon), Honey Don’t
• Relevant Shakespeare adaptations: Orson Welles’ Macbeth, Throne of Blood, Polanski's Macbeth, Kurzel’s Macbeth, Globe pro-shots

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Listen to Blank Check for more film deep-dives with the same blend of critical analysis and pop-culture riffs. For this episode, come for Macbeth, stay for the Bake Off digression.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the shadow is Blackjack.

[Dana Schwartz]

By the pricking of my thumbs.

[Griffin Newman]

Something wicked this way.

[Dana Schwartz]

Podcasts.

[David Sims]

That's pretty good. Katherine Hunter.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you. That's why I wanted to do it. I don't. I think my Hunter is better than my Denzel. We were just joking.

[David Sims]

Maybe you should do it. Denzel. Denzel, Macbeth. Maybe you should do it.

[Griffin Newman]

We were just joking that this is a quotable movie. And I made the joke weird. There's no quotes page and then I open up the quotes page. There are only five quotes on the quote.

[David Sims]

Nobody bothered.

[Griffin Newman]

Nobody was failing. Right?

[David Sims]

Yeah. No one was. Like someone did sit down here and write the tomorrow and tomorrow tomorrow speech.

[Dana Schwartz]

Someone copy pasted.

[David Sims]

But I'm saying like, someone was like, ah, fuck, come on. It should be on IMDb. It's good writing.

[Griffin Newman]

You have to imagine the logic is who's coming to the tragedy of Macbeth? Page for Macbeth.

[David Sims]

IMDb page for Macbeth.

[Dana Schwartz]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

If someone wants Macbeth quotes, there are many places.

[Dana Schwartz]

There is like one or two lines that they did tweak.

[Griffin Newman]

Give them to me.

[Dana Schwartz]

I. I don't have them off the top of my head. And we'll get to this because I think it's like a bigger not issue but like concern of the play, but something about Lady Macbeth having children.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure, right.

[Dana Schwartz]

They shifted a tense that I was like, ah, they're, they're, they're, they're making a choice.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right, right. But that's fun to do. It's fun to make a little choice.

[Griffin Newman]

There's also that scene about the 1 cent stamps that they had.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Where Macbeth is in bed with Lady Macbeth and he's feeling really down because his stamp art wasn't chosen.

[David Sims]

What was a really popular song in 2021?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, here we go. Right. Did anything exist in 2021? Most popular song of 2021 was still Feel like I do by Vin Diesel. I'm like, do I remember any? Did Taylor Release an album?

[David Sims]

20 Driver's license is the most popular.

[Griffin Newman]

Song is so good.

[David Sims]

I've also got Call me by your name by Lil Nas.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure.

[Dana Schwartz]

Were we going crazy for Bridgerton? Was that the first season of Bridgerton?

[David Sims]

Probably around then. So yeah. It be funny if Macbeth was like, like away. I have to watch season one of Bridgerton. Reja Jean Page. There's future bonds going to pop.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know if you folks are feeling this. And the two of you had marriages, children, things.

[David Sims]

Oh, you're having. You don't. You don't like the COVID movie? Like the. The sort of.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, I. I like this film quite a lot. It's more that we've now had enough distance that I cannot demarcate anything within 2020 and 2021 anymore.

[David Sims]

Yeah, not really.

[Griffin Newman]

All of that feels. I'm not.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I can remember the stuff that happened when I felt like I wasn't a person. But it's all just one soup.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know how I remember the beginning of COVID is because I had planned a trip to fly out to New York to record this. This very podcast.

[David Sims]

Was it Bewitched?

[Dana Schwartz]

It was Bewitched. It was Bewitched. It was the first thing that I was like, I don't think I'm supposed to get on a plane right now.

[David Sims]

Dude. I'll never forget those early, like, huh. I guess we're not gonna do our live show. Like, it went from us being like, well, the live show's in, like, two months. I mean, like, two months is a long time.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, the live show was supposed to be one week after lockdown. And then we kicked it to May. And we were like, it will definitely be over. They were like, do you want it further out? And we were like, may, this is definitely over.

[Dana Schwartz]

I was in a writer's room that they were like, okay, you guys are gonna work from home until April. And we, like, left food in the writer's room. Cause we're like, we'll be back in two weeks.

[Griffin Newman]

Was that she Hulk?

[Dana Schwartz]

That was she Hulk.

[Griffin Newman]

And everything turned out perfectly.

[Dana Schwartz]

And it turned out perfectly. The pandemic didn't affect it at all.

[Griffin Newman]

Nothing. Nothing was affect. Affected by anything. Do you know that this is a movie that was truly. Started filming in February?

[David Sims]

In February of the 11th century, 2020. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it was January or February. And they truly just, like, did what you said, where they were like, okay, let's just, like, drop the lights where they are expressionist sets. We'll be back in like, a week. And then they resumed filming in July.

[David Sims]

That's correct.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, they did this movie largely, you know, three quarters or whatever.

[David Sims]

Scott Rudin got canceled in between the beginning of production and the end of production.

[Griffin Newman]

He was retroactively removed as producer.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's very funny.

[Griffin Newman]

It doesn't come out till December 2021, but this is like a movie that is slightly pre Covid and then mostly lockdown, which thank God they committed to this visual style that Made it easy to be a bubble production.

[Dana Schwartz]

And people. There are no big, like, crowd scenes. It does feel like everyone is at least six feet away from each other.

[Griffin Newman]

And yet this.

[David Sims]

Yeah, some people didn't like that. Like, why does this vibe. It's like no one's even near in the same room with each.

[Griffin Newman]

But it doesn't feel like a Covid movie because it was. They came to those decisions organically.

[David Sims]

I'm not worried about it. It's all good to me.

[Griffin Newman]

You seem really worried. Yeah, no, I'm just saying a lot of the stuff I don't like to revisit the thing I remember I did see this in a theater, but it was at the peak of like, the. What was it? Omicron. It was the second wave in December of 2021 where it was like, Jesus Christ, is this gonna happen every year?

[Dana Schwartz]

Did you see it in imax?

[Griffin Newman]

I did not. I forgot it got a limited imax.

[David Sims]

That's the box office game week we're gonna do.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Because we already did Christmas 2021 anyway. And it is funny that it was released in imax, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Because it came out the same weekend as Matrix Res.

[David Sims]

Correct?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, I saw it. I was dog sitting for my father in the Hudson Valley and it happened to be during that dog sitting stay that the dog died. Oh, no. It was not my fault. But it was an emotionally intense two weeks that also were like, is there about to be another full lockdown? It felt like we were hinging right on the edge of is the government gonna say, like, hey, let's take another three months off?

[Dana Schwartz]

But it.

[Griffin Newman]

So I was like, maybe I just stay in this house forever. Maybe this is my new lockdown spot. And I took an Uber to the Story Screen Beacon Theater, which has since been renamed, and saw this movie with like one other person in the audience.

[David Sims]

Sorry, it's now, I believe, just called the Beacon.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct.

[Ben Hosley]

Yep.

[Dana Schwartz]

I was going to make a very bad in poor taste joke and just say, my Lord, your dog is dead.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, that. That's what I had to call my dad and say exactly that. And he was like, can you say it in like, normal language? Anyway, those are my memories about seeing this movie, a film I like quite a bit.

[David Sims]

You like this film quite a bit? Yeah, I saw this film at the knee. Oh, wait, what's our podcast? Jesus Christ.

[Griffin Newman]

This is our check with Griffin and David. I am Griffin. Thou art David.

[David Sims]

Great.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes Doth bounce, baby.

[David Sims]

Yeah, they do bounce, baby. All checks are, you know, a poor player, a walking shadow. A poor player that struts and frets their hour upon the studio and then is heard no more. An hour. Geez, Shakespeare. More like three hours.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the first Shakespeare we've covered. Is that correct? Like, straight up Shakespeare interpretation has to.

[David Sims]

Be like, yeah, I guess you're right. Gee, why. Why haven't we done a Shakespeare?

[Dana Schwartz]

Never done a Bran House series.

[Griffin Newman]

We batted around sometimes.

[David Sims]

It's a lot of movies.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a lot of movies.

[David Sims]

A lot of mustache.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's a lot of mustache.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a lot of mustache. Double mustache per movie. That's six mustaches.

[David Sims]

We've never really done Shakespeare.

[Griffin Newman]

No. This is a miniseries on the films of Joel and Ethan Coen together and separately. Today. We are covering, to date Joel's only solo film, although making the second one. He's in it right now. There will be the redemption of Macbeth.

[David Sims]

He's back.

[Griffin Newman]

Macbeth reawakening. It's called the Tragedy of Macbeth.

[David Sims]

This film is called the Tragedy Macbeth. What's the new one called? It's like the Queen of hearts or the Jack of Spades.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's Jack of spades.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's what's his name? Josh O' Connor movies and Francis McDormand. That's like, all we know.

[David Sims]

It looks like it's. It's like a period piece. Yeah. There was a photo of Leslie Manville and Damien Lewis. I mean, I'm not uninterested.

[Griffin Newman]

Give me all that you got. But they're filming the UK and there was a paparazzi photo of Josh OConnell.

[David Sims]

Looking unbelievable, looking very, very good in 19th century garb.

[Griffin Newman]

But to date, this is the only solo Joel movie that has been released. That movie is perhaps not based on anything as an original screenplay.

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, unclear. But so much of the interest of this movie is that Joel's only solo film we have seen so far is him adapting a pretty unimpeachable work of drama. So this is really a showcase for him as a director. And it's called the Tragedy of Macbeth. And today, our guest joining us for the third time. Third time on the podcast, maintaining a thematic trilogy.

[David Sims]

Is that true?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

Because it's all witches, David.

[Griffin Newman]

All witches.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oops.

[Griffin Newman]

All witches.

[David Sims]

So true.

[Griffin Newman]

Oz, the great and powerful tragedy of Macbeth.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

Dana Schwartz is our Guest today. Thank you so much for having me.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course.

[David Sims]

We gave Katherine Hunter best supporting Actress at the New York Film Critics Circle.

[Dana Schwartz]

She's amazing in this.

[David Sims]

Yes. And I was like, that's a cool win by us. And then no one else really bothered to award her anything, so I felt even better about it.

[Griffin Newman]

It was kind of an issy. Oh, I gotta moment. Do you remember when he got the first. Was it NBR gave him best supporting actor? And everyone's like, oh, fuck, is he a contender in silence.

[David Sims]

Right. And then again.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

Is the only sort of Oscar juice this movie gets is Denzel's nomination.

[Griffin Newman]

Denzel gets nominated by.

[David Sims]

Nominated for three Oscars.

[Griffin Newman]

Cinematography, production design. That's right. Pretty undeniable. Sure.

[David Sims]

But they all did feel a little cursory in that. Like, never really felt like a serious threat to win.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

It lost cinematography to Dune. I lost production design too, dude.

[Dana Schwartz]

I really like the production design of this movie.

[David Sims]

Me too. And Denzel lost to Will Smith, who I think accepted his award quietly and with no real.

[Dana Schwartz]

A normal way.

[Ben Hosley]

I would love to live in some of these rooms.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Like aesthetics.

[David Sims]

Not heavy on, like, cushions, though. Not socks.

[Ben Hosley]

It's not cozy.

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

They look a little bit.

[David Sims]

A little exposed to the elements. Whatever they may be.

[Griffin Newman]

They look a little bit like foggy. Do you remember Kanye and the. At Kim's home that he kept posting photos of?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Where you were like, don't you have kids? How do they get like.

[David Sims]

There's a lot of sharp.

[Dana Schwartz]

They live in a modern art museum.

[Griffin Newman]

All brutalist.

[Ben Hosley]

But how do we feel about a puddle room?

[Griffin Newman]

Incredible.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I think just blossom. Yeah. If you're feeling weird about the overthrowing.

[Ben Hosley]

You'Ve been up to throw some frog's breath down.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, this concept of like, look, Macbeth, it's. It's a cauldron. Forward drama. Right.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

How can we put a new spin on an old cauldron? And they're like, what if the cauldron is the room? Pretty cool.

[David Sims]

That's why Denzel was at the Oscars and he told Will Smith, like, the devil comes for you when you're about to win an Oscar or whatever.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know, though, it is a good thing for all of us that no one put Lady Macbeth's name in their mouth. This is a guy, Dana.

[Griffin Newman]

That's very true.

[David Sims]

That's true.

[Dana Schwartz]

This is a guy.

[David Sims]

Beth wouldn't have liked that.

[Dana Schwartz]

He would not have liked that one.

[David Sims]

Although sometimes I'm like, he doesn't seem to really care. He's like, yeah, whatever.

[Dana Schwartz]

But that's.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, you talk about this movie's response, which was polite, where they were like, of course, Denzel.

[David Sims]

It was a little poet.

[Griffin Newman]

Cinematography and production design we can't deny. Right. This is one year after Nomadland. Frances has just won her third lead actress Oscar.

[David Sims]

True.

[Griffin Newman]

I remember Mark Harris being like, she's going to win again.

[David Sims]

Well, that's silly.

[Griffin Newman]

And people were like, she can't win four times if you're listening. And it was like, she's playing Lady Macbeth and she is just, like, unstoppable right now. And she basically didn't even get nominations.

[David Sims]

She's not very good in this movie.

[Dana Schwartz]

I. I'm going to have a hot take. I am sorry to jump in with a hot take.

[David Sims]

Nope.

[Dana Schwartz]

I think my two least favorite performances in this movie are Denzel and Francis.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[David Sims]

See, I like.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Denzel, but I sort of.

[David Sims]

Know what you're hinting at.

[Dana Schwartz]

I don't think they tonal. My. The things that I love about this movie, that the tone of this movie, I think they're the least dialed into that tone.

[David Sims]

I agree with you, especially on Frances McDormand, who is straight up awful in this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also fascinating because who I generally.

[David Sims]

Love as an actress.

[Griffin Newman]

To be clear, it's not as much of a collaborative effort as say no.

[David Sims]

But Trisha Crow, she's 100% the creative push for Joel to do this. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

This is absolutely a movie made by the two of them.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's a Lady Macbeth movie. Yes. She has Lady Macbeth. Tim. Into making this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely. And she just doesn't quite have the right handle on it. Who do we each think is the best performance in this?

[David Sims]

Alex Hassell. I mean, like, that. That's the performance where I was just like, who's this fucking guy? I mean, like, half of his face.

[Dana Schwartz]

His face is doing a lot of.

[Griffin Newman]

That work for him.

[David Sims]

Good face. I'll take 10 of it.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know who's good in this movie is Steven Root.

[David Sims]

Stephen Root's great.

[Griffin Newman]

Stephen Root, I love. We're gonna get to the root of the matter later. Let's maybe do a little tease of the theme there. I believe I get my putters and murmurs.

[David Sims]

He's puttering.

[Griffin Newman]

And to put her in Shakespearean English is pretty impressive.

[David Sims]

Very fun.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Corey Hawkins is, like, unbelievable.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's great.

[David Sims]

I think Moses Ingram is great in her big scene. I think basically everyone does a good job, like, except for Francis, who I think is kind of off for some reason in ways I Can't. We can investigate. Like, I think Harry Melling is awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

It's, like, so cool that Dudley Dursley, like, became what he became and that the Cohens love him.

[Griffin Newman]

Love him. Gleason.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oh, Gleason.

[David Sims]

Gleason feels like he can do it in his sleep, but, like, he's great.

[Griffin Newman]

His fucking creamsicle beard looks perfect in black and white.

[David Sims]

Again, Catherine Hunter. We literally gave her best supporting actress. The coffee's brewing.

[Ben Hosley]

The cauldron.

[Griffin Newman]

I asked Ben to reactivate the the rarely opened collection of Nightmare Before Christmas themed coffees. It's a rainy day in New York, and I hate to say that sentence, but Ben has brewed up a pot of rough weather, which is the Zero from Nightmare Before Christmas themed coffee. And I think it's cranberry flavored. Oh, no. Some of us have a great time.

[David Sims]

No, you are not. But Alex Russell was the guy, partly because I did not know who he was.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Cranberry is the Santa Jack coffee.

[David Sims]

That makes more sense.

[Griffin Newman]

This is oatmeal cream pie. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum.

[David Sims]

Dana and I already remarked on the fact that cream pie should not be in coffee. Like, flavor names.

[Dana Schwartz]

Let's hang that from the rafters.

[David Sims]

This is the 21st century.

[Griffin Newman]

It's gonna have a great time. I'm a little surprised that Zero's coffee isn't pumpkin flavored since he's got that dang pumpkin nose.

[David Sims]

What's Corey Hawking up to recently?

[Griffin Newman]

This is what I want to talk about.

[David Sims]

Corey Hawkins.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry, I want to talk about this for a little bit, but we got a lot of stuff this week.

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, what I think is kind of one of the most interesting things about this movie is Alex Hassell's role. He plays Ross, who, if you see a production of Macbeth, you would be forgiven for being like, I don't know what that is.

[David Sims]

You talk about Ross, because Ross is basically just the guy who says things to.

[Griffin Newman]

He's more of a functionary. Yes, yes.

[David Sims]

Ross doesn't have his own Wikipedia page.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Corey Hawkins has one of the juicy roles.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's got the big fucking. I was from my mother's womb, untimely whipped role ripped like. I mean, he delivers the twist ending.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like the first time I clocked him was Straight Outta Compton, where even just seeing the trailer, I was like, holy shit. How did they find a guy that looks this much like Dr. Dre?

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's really good at that.

[Griffin Newman]

Really fucking Good in that. I've never seen this, but the year before, he played Tybalt in the Bad Hailee Steinfeld. Romeo and Julius.

[Dana Schwartz]

I saw that movie and then it.

[Griffin Newman]

Felt like right out of Straight out of Compton. It's like he's getting cast in everything. He's in Skull Island.

[David Sims]

No, he played. This is interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

What?

[David Sims]

He played Tybalt in a filmed Broadway production with Orlando Bloom, but not Hailee Steinfeld with Condola Rashad.

[Griffin Newman]

Hailee Steinfeld did a movie. She didn't film.

[David Sims]

She did a movie, but I think it's not Orlando Bloom. Because I was about to say Orlando Bloom. Hailee Steinfeld.

[Dana Schwartz]

No, I think that's Douglas sound.

[Griffin Newman]

No, Good age Douglas.

[David Sims]

That sounds right.

[Griffin Newman]

I was conflating the two things. I apologize for that.

[David Sims]

No, it's fine. It's fine. But so he was Tibalt in that.

[Dana Schwartz]

What he just did was Voyage of the Demeter.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, but this, he was in that. They make him the new lead of 24. He does a season of 24 legs.

[David Sims]

On everyone's Black Clansman.

[Griffin Newman]

He's incredible in.

[David Sims]

That's the one. One big scene.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. But destroys it. Then, like, six Underground. He's number seven.

[David Sims]

Oh, interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

In the Heights. Another big, like, kind of co. Lead role for him. He sings, he dances. He's great.

[David Sims]

He's really good at him.

[Griffin Newman]

Tragedy, Macbeth. I'm like, this guy is like, waiting to explode. And even in this, where it's like so many of his scenes are going to be him and Denzel, this feels like a kind of passing of the torch thing. And then it's like two years where he does something called Survive. I've never heard of that. Seems to maybe be a TV movie with him and Sophie, too.

[David Sims]

No, dude, there's a quibi. I ordered that one.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a quibi.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I ordered that.

[Griffin Newman]

Personally, he doesn't do a movie between Macbeth and Voyage of the Demeter.

[David Sims]

Well, it's only two years.

[Griffin Newman]

And then it's Color Purple and Covid.

[David Sims]

Yeah, and Covid.

[Griffin Newman]

Piano Lesson, which.

[David Sims]

So in Color Purple, he has harp. He's Harpo. That's the. You know, that's not the most enjoyable role. Obviously, he is good in the Piano Lesson. He's not, to me, the one that pops.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you.

[David Sims]

But he's totally good. He did also do Top Dog, Underdog on Broadway.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a good one.

[David Sims]

A Tony nomination with Yahya Abdul. Wonder man, of course. Great Wonder Man. Did you see the trailer for that?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

What's going on?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't Know what's up?

[Dana Schwartz]

I don't know.

[David Sims]

How are we doing?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[David Sims]

We can't just do a whole Marvel show set in, like, audition rooms. That has to just be the first 20 minutes, right? Like, we do need Wonder man to, like, you know, shoot lasers or whatever he does.

[Griffin Newman]

The problem with all these Marvel Disney plus shows now, and Dana, this is something you couldn't possibly understand is that all of them have basically been sitting on a shelf for three years and were conceptualized five years ago.

[David Sims]

Right? Like Iron Heart.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? They're all just, like, totally out of.

[David Sims]

They can't even acknowledge our president, Red Hulk.

[Griffin Newman]

And please, Dana, if you wouldn't mind saluting.

[Dana Schwartz]

Saluting.

[David Sims]

Does he have, like, two months in office? Like, his. His Wikipedia page? It's like, fuck Thunderbolt Ross. He was a celebrated general. He was President. Resigned in disgrace after turning into Red Hulk. 2. Two months in, there was like one.

[Griffin Newman]

Throwaway line in Thunderbolts where, like, things have been a mess since our president Hulked out. Right?

[David Sims]

They say something. Yeah, but acknowledge it.

[Griffin Newman]

You guys talk about it.

[David Sims]

It should be a little. Congress should feel pretty stressed out that the President.

[Dana Schwartz]

The president turned into.

[Griffin Newman]

I think if during a conference, by the way, it was televised. It wasn't like they can't cover it up, right. It wasn't like Michael Wolf broke the story. He's like, giving a speech in the.

[David Sims]

Rose Garden in public. You're right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then he rolled out and Captain America fought him and he sadly, like, conceited naked.

[David Sims]

He did. It was. And it felt like, like a little sort of upsetting.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's in the raft now.

[David Sims]

He's in the raft.

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, you know, his legacy is now going to be on, like, Internet listicles of, like, shortest terms of press.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

Williams? He died. Red Hulk hulked out. Like, it's like, what happened to the guys, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Do you think in, like, history classrooms where they have like, the wraparound, like, art of all the presents or the poster or whatever, does he get a Hall of President?

[Dana Schwartz]

Is it Red Hulk out?

[Griffin Newman]

I think he absolutely makes those things. But do they have to be like, we must respect both forms of the President. Does the Red Hulk trump, no pun intended, the regular form? I don't know.

[David Sims]

Corey Hawkins is in an upcoming film directed by Bart Layton. Not a director.

[Griffin Newman]

I like the man in My Basement.

[David Sims]

No, it's called Crime 101.

[Griffin Newman]

But he has another.

[David Sims]

Well, but I'm telling you about crime 101, and then I'll move on to whatever that is. Because listen to who's in this movie. Crime 101. Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo, Barry Keoghan.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Halle Berry. Monica Barbaro.

[Griffin Newman]

Barbaro.

[David Sims]

Corey Hawkins. Jennifer Jason Leigh. Nick Nolte.

[Griffin Newman]

What?

[David Sims]

That's like a lot of guys.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And that's a. Mgm.

[Dana Schwartz]

Is he the lead?

[David Sims]

Uh, no. He looks like he's about sixth on the cast list here. And then he's in the Odyssey.

[Griffin Newman]

The Odyssey is the big thing.

[David Sims]

That's cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I mean, maybe he plays like a rock. I mean, I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's like a lot of guys in that.

[Griffin Newman]

He hasn't stalled out. He's one of those guys where, like, if he gives a good performance tomorrow, everyone's gonna be like, wow. But even when he.

[David Sims]

My basement was at Tiff. Okay. I think it was. It got bad reviews.

[Griffin Newman]

Even when he was on, like, that good growth run, I always felt like his name was not sticking with people as much as it should. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't know. I love him.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And I think he's great in this.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's phenomenal in this.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Dana, what's your history with Old Bill? Shakespeare.

[Dana Schwartz]

I really like Shakespeare. I was in college. A nerd who didn't have a lot of friends or go to parties. But I was a member of a group called Shakespeare on the Green that sort of put on site specific Shakespeare productions around campus.

[Griffin Newman]

Where did you go to college?

[Dana Schwartz]

Brown.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

I didn't even pay you to set that up.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

I just. I'm an adult woman.

[David Sims]

College. In Rhode Island.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

Small college in Rhode Island. No, I actually directed a production of Arcadia with Shakespeare on the Green. Deeper cut.

[David Sims]

Now, that's not written by the name of Shakespeare, so you fucked up there.

[Dana Schwartz]

But I was in. I was in Winter's Tale.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Shakespeare. Yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

I've seen the Old Shepherd.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I was in Winter's Tale, Shakespeare's weirdest play. Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

Does not make sense. Kind of weird. Have fun with it. I like Shakespeare a lot. I have seen a few productions of Macbeth. I enjoy it. I think it's fun. I like this movie a lot.

[Griffin Newman]

David, did you ever perform Shakespeare?

[David Sims]

I did. I think I've said that on Mike. I was Puck in A Midsummer Night's Dream in high school. I wore a sparkly green sweater.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, you were.

[David Sims]

I think that is the only Shakespeare I did. I did a little bit of drama, like high school drama. I was not good at it, but I enjoyed the camaraderie and the, you know, sort of Spirit of collaboration.

[Griffin Newman]

You were also going to an all boys school, right?

[David Sims]

Yeah, but we would do our plays with the girls.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what I was. You weren't.

[Dana Schwartz]

You weren't doing Mark Rylance. You weren't. You weren't dressing up as girls, flipping around. You weren't Rylancing.

[David Sims]

We never Rylanced. You know, when Mark Rylance did that, it was very controversial because. So what. What Dana's referring to is Mark Rylance, who we all know, of course, as a Big Friendly Giant, who occasionally, you.

[Griffin Newman]

Know, also as the Phantom of the Open Green. What were you going to say? Were you queuing me up to do the voice?

[David Sims]

Yeah, you could do the voice if you want. Or you could do any Mark Ryan.

[Griffin Newman]

Robins.

[David Sims]

He was also. Well, he started out at the rsc, the Royal Shakespeare Company, but then he was the artist, the first artistic director of Shakespeare's Globe for the first 10 years, which is. They rebuilt Shakespeare's theater from, you know, Tudor times. You're aware of this?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, Perfect reconstruction. But they added Dolby Atmos.

[David Sims]

It's a very. Have you been to the Globe?

[Dana Schwartz]

I have.

[David Sims]

Have you been to the Globe?

[Griffin Newman]

I haven't.

[David Sims]

It's wonderful.

[Dana Schwartz]

I saw Measure for Measure there.

[David Sims]

It's awesome. Ben, have you been to the Shakespeare's Club?

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

Have you been to London? Realizing.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, okay, I did go by the theater.

[David Sims]

Right. You can also just. It's on the South Bank. You can just walk. It's crazy, this like.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, it's crazy. Just, you know, obviously it's not the original, but.

[David Sims]

And it's about 500ft from where the original was. They actually.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait, a.

[David Sims]

Really bad. Yeah, there was some other building that they couldn't move or whatever, but it's pretty close.

[Ben Hosley]

Sure. But crazy that it's just. I mean, London's so fucking old.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just crazy old. Yeah, crazy.

[David Sims]

But he did try doing some all male productions because, like, that's what they did in Shakespeare's time. And then some people got mad because they were like, it's hard enough for female actors out here and you're fudgeing, taking our roles away again. But he was like, I'm trying to do a thing. I think they did all women stuff too, at a certain point. I'm not sure.

[Dana Schwartz]

He was in sort of a celebrated production, I believe, of Twelfth Night.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And then I think, Olivia. I think you're right, David, that to make up for it, they did an all women's production of Ghostbusters and people reacted to it very normally. Ben, how do you feel about. How do you. He answered the call. How do you feel about Shakespeare in general?

[Ben Hosley]

The Bard.

[Griffin Newman]

The Bard, Willie Shakes.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, famously, I've said on this show many times, I'm not a fan of homework, resist homework.

[David Sims]

And I worried that this was a homework ass movie.

[Ben Hosley]

It is a little bit of a homework ass movie.

[David Sims]

Okay. Because it is guys in robes going like, dost thou? And it's, you know, like there's a certain brain turning off moments some people have a little bit.

[Ben Hosley]

I now, later in life have come to somewhat appreciate Shakespeare, I think, you know, he's. He's like, you know, contributed some stuff.

[David Sims]

Oh, you think? Right, right. You know, the guy actually, I got landed a couple darts on the old bill. He's done some stuff, you know. Do you think he. That it wasn't really him? Because you do you don't mind a conspiracy theory sometimes? Sure. I love it. So you're just. I'm like, hey, maybe Shakespeare didn't write his plays. You're like, I'm all in. He didn't do.

[Ben Hosley]

It's three guys.

[David Sims]

Dana, where were you on Fake Shakespeare?

[Dana Schwartz]

No, it was a real guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, I love that. Maybe it's like three guys in a trench coat.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the dream.

[David Sims]

And they all. That's why, like, you know, one of them brought the comedy, one of them brought the drama.

[Dana Schwartz]

Do you know about the. The William Ireland Shakespeare hoax?

[David Sims]

No, what's that?

[Dana Schwartz]

I mean, I. This could be a full rabbit hole, but basically it was a guy in the late 1700s who was trying to impress his dad and, like, forged a Shakespeare signature autograph. And the dad was impressed and then gradually reached a point where he's like, I found a lost play that Shakespeare wrote that he.

[David Sims]

This is like, can you ever forgive me? Yeah. He kicked something off, and then he started being like, well, if I can do the fucking signature.

[Dana Schwartz]

They put it on. They put on.

[David Sims]

They put it on. It's called. What's it called?

[Dana Schwartz]

Vortigern.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Is it good?

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Fuck. It does make you wonder, though. Like, you know, they're constantly publishing new books under Dr. Seuss, right?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's like a Dr. Seuss book. And you're like, we all know he died 60 years ago. Some other person's wr. This. But Dr. Seuss has become a brand.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Part of it's the language.

[David Sims]

And so it's. Is it like Community Season four, where it's like, yeah, you kind of got the idea, but that doesn't mean it's good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes.

[David Sims]

Right, right. But I'm like, hop on, pop.

[Griffin Newman]

And you know, I'm almost surprised that no one's been like, hey, we bought the rights to Shakespeare. We're going to start publishing new Shakespeare plays.

[Dana Schwartz]

Fed AI.

[David Sims]

Like there's new James Bond novels or whatever. Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

That all the new Bourne novels still say, like Robert Ludlum and big letters.

[David Sims]

On the topic actually written.

[Griffin Newman]

Written by.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Is that covered on hoax? Oh, that's a podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

Your podcast Hoax.

[Dana Schwartz]

Brand new podcast. Hoax, exclamation point. Fun podcast I do with my friend Lizzie Logan where we talk about historical hoaxes, including that one.

[Griffin Newman]

You have talks about it.

[Dana Schwartz]

I went down the rabbit hole. It's just, it's very fun for me to have a job where I get to go down a rabbit hole.

[Griffin Newman]

What's the big, like upon Wingate? What's the name of the big hoax? I feel like there's the one that has some sort of like, code name for what the truthers call themselves.

[Dana Schwartz]

Is it the Iron Mountain?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna figure this out.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's like the kind of Qanoni.

[David Sims]

Like, I don't understand, like, what's. What. What's the hoax?

[Griffin Newman]

I guess it's the one that Anonymous is built around the idea that, like, Shakespeare couldn't have been a common person.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oh, a Shakespeare hoax. I feel like the. All those, like, it was. It was Bacon do come from like, sort of snobbery. This idea that, like, how could someone.

[David Sims]

Right. Seemingly regular have created this?

[Griffin Newman]

It must have been.

[David Sims]

It has to be fake or Francis Bacon or whoever. Right. That's the thing with the Shakespeare authorship stuff.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

It's like largely, like, it's not like there's not enough evidence. It's more just people being like, I just don't buy it.

[Dana Schwartz]

And also the argument that I've heard is like, well, how can someone be so good at tragedy and comedy and poetry? And I'm like, because he was a really good writer.

[David Sims]

Yeah. There's a reason we. Right. We still like his plays. Because he was good. Like, it's. It's circular. Yeah. Like, you just have to. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the Oxfordian theory. But there's some dumb name. I've heard those people, they're called anti.

[David Sims]

Stratfordians, if that's what you're talking maybe about. Like, because they're basically like, it wasn't the man from Stratford because that's where he's from.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure, I guess.

[David Sims]

And of course he had a son called Hamnet. And we'll learn all about that soon.

[Griffin Newman]

We'Re about to learn about. That's fun. Ben and I last night went to go see House House Full of Diamonds.

[David Sims]

Oh. Did you like it?

[Griffin Newman]

I liked it. I mean we'll, we'll have talked about it. Yeah, I know.

[David Sims]

I'm literally interested.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I liked it.

[David Sims]

I haven't seen it.

[Griffin Newman]

I have some hang ups.

[Ben Hosley]

I found it a little stressful, but.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben had just finished watching Tragedy Macbeth. It was storming up rain.

[Dana Schwartz]

This is real tragedy of Macbeth weather.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And then walked into House of Dynamite and we walk out of the theater and Ben's just like, I feel bad.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, for real. That was an awful double header.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

You probably needed to go see. Well, I mean, what's the funniest movie in theaters right now? Probably fucking House of Dynamite.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Laughs to be had.

[Griffin Newman]

I did the opposite.

[Dana Schwartz]

The Taylor Swift lyric.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Maybe Gabby's dollhouse has a couple laughs. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Arp argued that wig is on fire in that movie.

[David Sims]

That's great. I love that. For her.

[Griffin Newman]

Griffith.

[David Sims]

David Ben.

[Ben Hosley]

Ben Bone Sound Inc. Worldwide in partnership with Blank Check Podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

Heard with both of those companies. I've heard of both of those companies.

[David Sims]

I've been approved. Whatever's about to be mentioned are proud.

[Ben Hosley]

To present Ben Hosley's Slow Xmas 5.

[Griffin Newman]

Somehow Slow Xmas has returned. That's right. They slow now.

[Ben Hosley]

For listeners out there living in a friggin hole.

[David Sims]

Oh boy.

[Ben Hosley]

Av no shade Essex.

[Dana Schwartz]

Mm.

[Ben Hosley]

Slow Xmas is an annual compilation album of alternative and often be Christmas music. But it got to be slow.

[David Sims]

Now, this is not ssx, the snowboarding.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Sometimes it's tricky.

[David Sims]

This is just sx. It could be tricky.

[Griffin Newman]

It could be tricky. Ben, you did in this copy. You provided us written copy. Written copy. Use SX as shorthand.

[David Sims]

So you're trying to sort of coin an acronym here?

[Griffin Newman]

This is the first time you've done that.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm testing it out.

[Griffin Newman]

Can we call this sxv? Yes. Okay.

[David Sims]

And now, am I wrong? Is this the fifth time you've done this or is it the sixth? Wasn't there like an episode zero or something?

[Ben Hosley]

I started with Slow Xmas zero.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, Right.

[Ben Hosley]

The second natural way to start.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a Godzilla mine.

[David Sims]

Whenever I'm counting up, I'm like zero kind of situation.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. This, the second year's installment was Slow Xmas Volume one.

[David Sims]

Griff, can I read the next line.

[Griffin Newman]

Of the copy, please?

[David Sims]

This year, slow Xmas 5 is being served cold. Brrr. Bundle up and sip away them holiday season blues with Wintry ethereal tunes.

[Dana Schwartz]

David.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, our listeners that be going, yeah, I know it's that time of the year. Slow Xmas. What am I gonna do, go online and download it? Is that my only release option?

[Ben Hosley]

No, because now in its sixth year, it is available on vinyl for the very first time.

[Griffin Newman]

For the very first time. The slowest vinyl imaginable.

[Ben Hosley]

That right? Fiscal Media, baby. Available exclusively through our friends over at Mutant right now.

[Griffin Newman]

The lovely folks at Mutant have released such soundtracks as Sinners and Now slow Xmas 5.

[David Sims]

It was pressed apparently on 140gm.

[Ben Hosley]

What does that mean?

[Griffin Newman]

It's the grams. The grams. That's the weight.

[David Sims]

And iced out into a translucent ice blue variant.

[Griffin Newman]

I like that.

[David Sims]

500 copies offered him 45 RPM. So he can play regular slower, extra slow at 33 and a third.

[Griffin Newman]

Isn't that fun? That's really fun. That's really, really clever. Ben, can you tell us about the lineup this year?

[Ben Hosley]

It's featuring holiday standards and originals from the Meridian brothers, Shannon Leigh, Zach Cooper of Grammy award winning King Garbage, eric slick of Dr. Dog, Dave Hartley, friend of the show of the war on drugs with his solo project Nightlands. Among others.

[Griffin Newman]

Among others. And for the Analog Hogs. The Analog Hogs. Hogs. The majority of the album artwork is practical with an original sculpture by Matthew Rosenquist.

[Ben Hosley]

To get your mittens on this record, go to madebymutant.com Also available is a special edition T shirt featuring slow Xmas 5 cover artwork. Plus we have a 5 pack of holiday greeting cards featuring album artwork across the last five years. So you can send along some holiday cheer to friends and family using cards featuring past Slow Christmas album artwork. Isn't that fun? You can explain to them what it is in the card. That's a good icebreaker. Ice cold. Brrr. And for any worldwide blankies interested, international shipping is available, but for the vinyl record only. Once again, all three products are available right [e-mail] all right, anyway, thanks, guys.

[Griffin Newman]

Brr.

[Dana Schwartz]

Should we talk about tragedy?

[David Sims]

The tragedy of Macbeth? I love Macbeth. I have seen. Have you seen Macbeth performed? Griffin Newman?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think I've ever seen it. I was trying to count how many.

[David Sims]

Times I've seen it on the stage. On the. On the stage. You. Dana, when have you seen Macbeth?

[Dana Schwartz]

I think I've seen it two times. Two or three times on the stage. Who were Macbeth, Chicago, Shakespeare.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

Once in college and I feel like once more that I. I'm not placing now you. We were texting earlier and you Were bragging that you saw Sir Patrick Stewart.

[David Sims]

I did see the Patrick Stewart production.

[Griffin Newman]

When was that?

[David Sims]

Which was. I think it was initially 2007. Right. Is that right? And it was. It's. You can see it filmed. It was recorded.

[Griffin Newman]

They did a pro shot, Rupert.

[David Sims]

It's got this whole, like, Romanian, like, 60s, sort of oppressive government thing. I also saw it with Samantha Bond as Lady Macbeth. This is what I was trying to remember. Who was Macbeth in this? I'm gonna find it. Just everyone relax.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, I've watched the pro shot.

[David Sims]

Sean Beam.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yes, the pro shot. There's a good pro shot of David Tennant.

[Griffin Newman]

That one I was a little sad to have missed.

[Dana Schwartz]

Me, too.

[David Sims]

I also. So I've been doing it. So I saw a lot of stuff when I moved to England when I was a kid, and the first thing I saw at the Royal Shakespeare Company at the Barbican when I was in England was Julius Caesar when I was, like, nine years old.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

And I, you know, vaguely remember it, but, like, not really. And I. So I went back and looked at the programs because some guy collects.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Screenshot. Paul Bettany was in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

What the fuck?

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

I saw him on. You know, I didn't know, Like, I didn't know who he was.

[Griffin Newman]

Who was Caesar? That was just a young Betany.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he was Caesar. I can find out. Let's see. He played Bettany, played Brutus. And Hugh Courchy played Mark Anthony. And Cesar was played by Christopher Benjamin. Julian Glover was Cassius. Like, you know, I think back on this stuff that I saw as a kid where I think I was. I liked Shakespeare and I was into it, but I was still a little kid, so I would get a little bored or I would.

[Griffin Newman]

This is how I felt.

[David Sims]

And I was a. I was a. This is so long ago. And I just have no memory of these things that had the toast of, you know, later, like, British character actor shit. You know what I mean? Like, I saw in 96, the RSC, Macbeth. This is why I'm thinking about this, which had Roger Alum as Macbeth. Oh, Bet he was good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And let's see. Who is Lady Macbeth? Bird Brennan.

[Griffin Newman]

Never heard of you. Okay.

[David Sims]

But the reason I saw that is that my friend from school was in it as one of Banquo's children in, like, a scene where, like, all the children were, like, Gabb. As part of the fantasy of the. Right. And so he had no lines, but he had to go be in the play every night.

[Griffin Newman]

That's cool.

[David Sims]

And I was like jealous that I was like, that's cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know, like the. The historical sort of fun fact about the writing of Macbeth and why that scene is really included was what was happening in England at the time is King James of Scotland came over after Elizabeth died of Scotland, also of the Bible of Scotland. And Shakespeare was trying to suck up to him. So he was like, I'm gonna write this play about a Scottish king. And also it was popularly believed that King James was descended from Banquo. Actually, he wasn't because Banquo wasn't a real person. But that was like sort of the popular understanding. So even though in the thing, in like the historical text that Shakespeare was basing this story on, Hollywood's Chronicles, Holinshed's Chronicles, Banquo was like involved in the assassination in this version. He's like, no Banquo. Good guy. Also, Banquo, you know, going to have a line of great kings. Wink, wink.

[Ben Hosley]

How are you as far as like the king, knowledge, legacy stuff?

[David Sims]

Definitely really good.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, is that something they really like pushed on you in school?

[David Sims]

Well, what do you think nine year old David, moving to Britain, thought about the fact that you could learn a big list of names of guys from the past. I'm going to guess there's like history about their dude doings. Knowing you that I think like age 9, David was interested in memorizing that.

[Ben Hosley]

You might have got a little locked in. Yeah, I can see that.

[David Sims]

But then of course, there is the king of the kings of Scotland before what Dana's referring to when the crowns are joined. And like Macbeth is a real king, but I'm not. I don't know. How good are you at the kings of Scotland, Dana? Can you do it? Probably not.

[Dana Schwartz]

No. No.

[David Sims]

I mean, it's pretty ridiculous. Like there were a lot of kings of Scotland back then.

[Ben Hosley]

Their names are too plain.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

They need like some kind of like extra like descriptor.

[David Sims]

A little rude given that there was like six King Davids in Scotland and there's been zero King Davids in England.

[Griffin Newman]

Plain. Well, James McAvoy of course, was the last king of Scotland who led up to that. That's facts. I know what to tell you guys.

[David Sims]

Facts are facts.

[Griffin Newman]

Facts are facts.

[David Sims]

It's pretty weird that that's a movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

That they're like, there's an idiomine movie Forest Whitaker won best actor for. Oh, is he the lead? He's actually kind of not. James McAvoy is.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not even the titular character.

[David Sims]

Who does he Play the Last King of Scotland? Well, not really. He plays like a guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Why is it called that? I don't know.

[David Sims]

Didi, I mean, was kind of into Scotland maybe, I think.

[Griffin Newman]

I think he called him a king at some point or some shit.

[David Sims]

You seen the Last King of Scotland?

[Dana Schwartz]

I have not seen that movie. I didn't even know James McAvoy was in it.

[David Sims]

He's not just in it. He's all over it, baby.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the crazy thing is they, like, shot this movie where, like, IDI Amin is the supporting character. And then people watch and they were like, fudge, this performance is good. And then the poster is just giant Forest Whitaker face. Everyone. More people absolutely have seen, like, the Oscar clip of that movie than seeing the actual movie in full and assume the whole movie is that.

[Dana Schwartz]

That is exactly my understanding of that movie.

[David Sims]

No, it's mostly James McAvoy being like, God, I gotta get the fuck out of here. I'm like, living with Edi, Amy.

[Griffin Newman]

He's like a doctor stuck in Scotland.

[David Sims]

It's that IDI Ami needs to do a giant fart. I remember a real scene, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

And he think he's dying.

[David Sims]

I'm in pain. And he's like, oh, I'm a doctor, I can help you. And then he's like, I think you just have gas pain. And, like, makes him fart. And then IDI Ami rock.

[Griffin Newman]

And he goes behind Ed Amini, places the baseball bat against his stomach, and he, like, pulls really hard.

[Dana Schwartz]

This is a real scene.

[David Sims]

This is like the movie Big.

[Griffin Newman]

First the meat cube.

[David Sims]

Yeah, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

And then he's like, you're trying to kill me. And James McFoy is, like, pulling the bat, and then he, like, lets out like a Blazing Saddles fart. And he. You have cured me. You are the last king of.

[David Sims]

He's kind of analyzed this vibes where he's like, you. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then. Well, then the rest of the movie.

[David Sims]

Yes, like, I got to get out of here. And he means, like, I got to do more crime.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like somewhere between Analyze this in Funny People where he's like, you live in my house now. You help me with everything.

[David Sims]

But yes, Macbeth was, of course, the king of Scotland in 1040 for 17 years, which is not bad.

[Griffin Newman]

Longer than I've been King of Scotland.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So far by 17 years.

[David Sims]

Yeah. But he is based. So he's based on a real guy with the. The theater theatrical character is kind of made up.

[Griffin Newman]

Up.

[David Sims]

But that's cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you think in. In his time Because Shakespeare constructed so many plays around famous leaders y. That there was a. A kind of analog to Marvel. Speculation of being like, who do we think he's gonna.

[Dana Schwartz]

Who's gonna do next?

[Griffin Newman]

What's his take gonna be? How much is he gonna deviate from the source material?

[Dana Schwartz]

I know that, like, you're. That's like, a very funny joke. But I do think people. People fully now, like, scholars think there's, like, quote, unquote, like, lost plays where they were like, I think he probably would have written a play about this guy, and he didn't.

[David Sims]

And no one. So why are they lost? Because no one bothered to put them in the folio or whatever.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, it's like, I don't know. May.

[David Sims]

Maybe they.

[Dana Schwartz]

Them. And no one wrote them down because they're like, we'll give them this one.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. Right? They're like, they removed all the bad ones from history. They were like, what if we Zaslav a couple of these? So his legacy is pretty perfect.

[David Sims]

He did Zaslav it. But that's. It's just fun to imagine. Like, about. We're talking, like, hey, I hear his next play is Julius Caesar. And people like, oh, but it must.

[Griffin Newman]

Have been that, right?

[David Sims]

But then once in a while, people like, I. It's, like, about a Winter's Tale. I. I don't know what he's doing.

[Griffin Newman]

The message board is literally a message board, right? Where someone is, like, pinning a piece of paper.

[Dana Schwartz]

Do I need to have seen eleventh Night before?

[David Sims]

I. All right.

[Griffin Newman]

But when he.

[David Sims]

Dana, the door's over there.

[Griffin Newman]

When they announced something like Winter's Tale, it must have been like, Nolan speculation, where you're like, what does this title imply?

[David Sims]

Winter?

[Griffin Newman]

Is it secretly an adaptation of. What was the fucking Blue Thunder? I don't know.

[David Sims]

I believe that is what you're talking about. Yes. Blue Thunder. Macbeth. Let's go all the way back to Macbeth. Where's my dossier for Macbeth? JJ the play. What do you know about Macbeth, Dana? Apart from. I agree. I think that the historiography of, like, he's sucking up to King James a little bit, being like, yeah, I think that you're the.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's kind of what I know about Macbeth. Sucking up to a Scottish king, giving us some classic, like, Shakespeare themes.

[David Sims]

Some scholars, like Normal Guy Harold Bloom, think that it was sort of influenced by the Gunpowder Plot. They did try to blow up King James I. Those rotten Catholics. Sorry. They're all right. I'm sure King James had it coming. Wait, should I be sympathizing? With Guy Fawkes.

[Dana Schwartz]

I don't know, it is kind of funny. I always find it very funny that like Guy Fawkes, because of Yifer vendetta has become this imagery that's like punk rock anarchist. When he was a devout Catholic.

[David Sims]

He was a devout Catholic who wanted to kill James out of religious fervor. And then the holiday where we burn him in effigy is an anti Catholic holiday. And the whole thing in just 21st century Britain, you're just like, what's any of this about?

[Griffin Newman]

Like, right.

[David Sims]

Nobody here goes to church anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

But with distance it's just become. If they hated him, he must have been cool.

[David Sims]

I think he was all right. What do you think about King James? He was all right.

[Dana Schwartz]

I mean, he's probably gay. Probably gay.

[Griffin Newman]

Go off.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know. What he did is hunt. What I find kind of interesting about this play which has, you know, witches. He was a little bit obsessed with witches.

[David Sims]

Okay, Right.

[Dana Schwartz]

Sort of the witch hunter king. He wrote the demon out.

[Griffin Newman]

Obsessed in fear, you're saying?

[David Sims]

Yeah, I think thought they were pretty real.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I think people at that time were like, there was a sort of a spectrum of how real do you think witches are and who is close to heavy on goth.

[Griffin Newman]

He was like, we have to protect ourselves.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. He was not into witches because he liked them. He was like, we should put these women on trial and torture them.

[David Sims]

Did you know? Right. Which is not woken cool of him. So maybe I take it back on James the First. Did you know that in 1604 he wrote a treatise called A Counter Blast to Tobacco, which is seen as one of the first anti smoking like publications ever, in which he says that. That like he doesn't like tobacco. He hates that it's come from the new. Like that it's the hot new thing. He says that it is hateful to the nose.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's right.

[David Sims]

I know. He's just like in 1604 he's like this. Why are we all smoking?

[Griffin Newman]

This smells bad. I'm just imagine him making people write his entire screed on the back of every tobacco leaf. Like it's the warning on a cigarette.

[Dana Schwartz]

Pack he flips to the nose.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He basically is like, it's sinful and it. It smells like Satan to me as well. So he gets a little hard on the. You know, if you're smoking, it's like sort of devil smoke, Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, sure.

[David Sims]

But still he didn't like smoking.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Anyway, so Macbeth. Yeah. Written in probably like 1602. Three two somewhere around there. Can't be dated precisely. Maybe try work harder.

[Griffin Newman]

It sounds like a JJ failing to me.

[David Sims]

There's basically. Dana, there's basically debate over, is it, like, 1603 to celebrate James's ascension to the throne or a little after the Gunpowder Plot, which would put it, like, 1606.

[Dana Schwartz]

Okay.

[David Sims]

We don't know. They basically just, like, search the text to try and figure out, like, what could be a reference to, like, this. It seems like such a fun branch of history, but also very niche, you know, to, like, go through Shakespeare being like, what were they. What were they referencing here? Is this, like, a topical thing, like, him saying this?

[Dana Schwartz]

It's like how they reference driver's license in this movie, which dates it precisely in 2021.

[David Sims]

That's why they did that.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you think that Paramount's about to greenlight a bunch of movies that are, like, Macbeth equivalents, where, like, our greatest storytellers are pitching films about how good tech billionaires and their children are?

[David Sims]

I'm sorry, I didn't catch all that. Tech billionaires. So we would do that now.

[Dana Schwartz]

Sucking up to his overlords. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

You think I'm correct?

[David Sims]

Yeah, I think you're right.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you.

[David Sims]

Of course, this is. You're not supposed to say the name Macbeth if you're performing it, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. It's a curse in the theater. It is, of course, a curse into podcast studios as well. We've already called the Scottish play ourselves, but the legend is always, if you say Macbeth in a podcast studio, you are trapped to endorse brain powders for 20 years and get caught in the manosphere.

[David Sims]

You like that?

[Griffin Newman]

Saint Macbeth in a podcast.

[David Sims]

I don't understand.

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, this is a very serious play.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a serious play.

[David Sims]

Very serious play.

[Griffin Newman]

Talk about a serious cruise.

[David Sims]

Michael York says that if you say the name on stage or in a theater, you have to leave immediately. Walk around three times. Walk around the theater three times, which is like, Jesus, it's like 20 minutes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

And then spit over your left shoulder, say an obscenity, and then wait to be invited back in the building. You can't even go back in.

[Griffin Newman]

Vampire rules.

[David Sims]

Right. Patrick Stewart says, if you have played the role of the Scottish thane, then you're allowed to say the title anytime, anywhere. But I'll know that's convenient for him to say. Also note he's not saying it, so it's kind of one of those things where he's like, I mean, you know, it's weird that you can't say this word and I'm like, well, you're not saying the word either, man.

[Griffin Newman]

I've always found the loopholes of it confusing because it is. Right. The thing is. Oh. Only call it the Scottish play.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And basically, there was a series of incidents during different productions that made people think it was cursed. Right.

[Dana Schwartz]

Sort of Phantom of the Opera style.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Certain actors died or got injured. You know, like stage lights falling down and hitting people, which is curse the play.

[Dana Schwartz]

Are you allowed to reference the historical figure Macbeth, do you think?

[David Sims]

Well, this is my question. Also, if you're in Macbeth, you do have to say the word Macbeth and.

[Griffin Newman]

You put it on the, like, marquee.

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

They're like. If you're, like, working in a regional production of Hairspray and you say Macbeth, you got to get the out of here. You've just ruined everything. If you stage Macbeth on Broadway with Daniel Craig, you're saying Macbeth a trillion times a night.

[Ben Hosley]

So if I went to a Broadway show and yelled macbeth.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, is that worse than yelling like fire?

[Griffin Newman]

Possibly.

[David Sims]

And we do need to test this out, and you have to go to some Broadway shows, start yelling macbeth.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

All right. Blank check. The business will pay for that.

[Griffin Newman]

Your bail as well.

[David Sims]

I think the reason for that superstition is because this is a tough play to do weirdly.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, so it's more convenient to be like, ah, I can't do this.

[David Sims]

That's why it got bad reviews. It's like, sort of. Because, like, this is a weirdly straightforward play. And I think that for whatever reason, it, like. I just remember almost every production I went to went got kind of bad reviews. It's like a beloved role. It's famous. Everybody knows Macbeth. And yet it's kind of, for whatever reason, harder than Hamlet or King Lear in some way to do a good Macbeth. Patrick Stewart accepted. We loved Patrick Stewart. Every movie version of Macbeth is kind of weird. There's the Orson Welles one, which is kind of good, but the sets are sort of falling down. There's the Roman Polanski one. Nothing weird about that guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Never seen that one.

[David Sims]

It's interesting.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's similar to this one in a lot of ways.

[David Sims]

It's the post Sharon Tate murder movie, and it's very bleak.

[Griffin Newman]

Huh.

[David Sims]

Which. It's easy to lean into that with Macbeth.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

There's the very dusky Assassin's Creed guy.

[Griffin Newman]

I love that film.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

Justin Kurzil. Have you seen that one, Ben?

[Ben Hosley]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the movie that got him Assassin's Creed. A lot of smoke and It's Fassbender and Marion Couture and they were just like. Let's just move over to. From one great work about assassins.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yes, true.

[Griffin Newman]

But you would. You would love that movie.

[Dana Schwartz]

Movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's grimy as hell.

[Dana Schwartz]

There's Throne of Blood, which is good.

[David Sims]

And you rewatch for this podcast. So we do have to shout that out. That does rock.

[Dana Schwartz]

And it also feels like a lot of the fabric of that transferred over.

[Griffin Newman]

To this into this.

[David Sims]

And if you have so many arrows in him at end of play.

[Griffin Newman]

That's true.

[Ben Hosley]

And if you haven't seen Assassin's Creed, highly recommend it.

[Dana Schwartz]

I haven't, but I did listen to the podcast about it.

[Griffin Newman]

Hell yeah. If you. If you like the podcast, you'd love the movie. I'm looking at the Scottish play curse thing. It is built into the narrative that it is only a curse to say it when you're not performing it or rehearsing it. Okay. Which doesn't make any sense. But then my memory was.

[David Sims]

Now it's just a way to be annoying. Like someone says Macbeth. It's like, sorry, I forgot we weren't rehearsing anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

My memory was Origins of the curse was weird things befalling people working on the show. It does seem like Origins of the curse were just solely productions. Never went well.

[David Sims]

Right. Bad reviews. This is what I'm saying.

[Dana Schwartz]

It wasn't a Spider man turn off the dark situation. It is. They should now start a new thing where you can't say Spider man turned off Spider man.

[Griffin Newman]

But you can't say you can't turn off the dark.

[David Sims]

People did think a phrase that people love to say. That's the problem.

[Griffin Newman]

People did think. Wasn't that phrase created by like Bono's son?

[David Sims]

Yes, it was either Bono or the Edge's son was like turn off the dark.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Like bedtime once.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And they were like, brilliant. Our millions and millions of dollars of Spider man should be called this based.

[Griffin Newman]

On a 3 year old not understanding how a light switch works. The actual origin is that, yes. A series of poor productions, but noted commonly put on by theaters already in financial trouble. Or that high production costs put theaters in financial trouble. But it was chalked up to witches. They were like, the witches got angry that this show pinned them down, read them for filth.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then they cursed all productions.

[Dana Schwartz]

Although the witch is a very cool.

[David Sims]

Character in this play, which is a very cool role. I mean, what role would you want to play?

[Dana Schwartz]

I would want in this one. I'm like the witch lady Macbeth's a pretty cool role, but I'm not a good actress.

[David Sims]

Right? You have to. You kind of got to bring it for that one. That's tough.

[Dana Schwartz]

I wouldn't. I would be too nervous to have a big part in this. You know what? In this one, Ross is just like close ups of your face, not blinking.

[David Sims]

I mean, not. Sorry to say this word, but looking cunty. Like, I mean, he is serving it.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Like, which we love. I mean, I just love that Joel Cohn is like, like, you know, digging into the meat of shit and he's like. I feel like Ross is just kind.

[Griffin Newman]

Of serving, Serving cunt.

[Dana Schwartz]

Griffin, you're an actor. Is there a role?

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of, yeah.

[David Sims]

Have you done She.

[Griffin Newman]

I did. I did Twelfth Night.

[David Sims]

We love it. What did you play?

[Griffin Newman]

Pretentious, unbearable high school. It was reinterpreted.

[David Sims]

Oh, no, let's uninterrupt. No, come on, come on.

[Griffin Newman]

Being in a Dust bowl era circus, it was a real carnival ripoff. Like a year after Carnival, right?

[David Sims]

Everyone had carnival fever.

[Griffin Newman]

Dust bowl era, yes. Our 80 year old theater teacher with like translucent orange hair who dressed like a 20 year old from like Search and Destroy was like, this weird thought came to me.

[David Sims]

So what. What world?

[Griffin Newman]

Fabian, who is kind of the Ross in that show where he's just like a character that exists to be the fifth guy in the group.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I would say Fabian. He's one of the, you know, people in Olivia's household who also enjoys the pranks that are happening. He's not like sort of doing them.

[Griffin Newman]

There is no defined character or game where everyone else kind of has a fun thing going on. And Sabina Freeman Seitz, who is a successful actor and a producer to this day, they double cast us as Fabian, which doesn't mean we were playing at an alternation the character that is already underwritten. Sorry, Bill. They were like, why don't the two of you do it simultaneously? We'll split it into two characters.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Fabian and Fabian. And I was a magician. She was the magician's assistant.

[David Sims]

So is this just sort of a way to make sure everyone participates?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, it's high school. Absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

But so I'm like, playing a character is like not a character.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then they also like split us in half. And it was absolutely random who had which line? And then we just did a bunch of magic tricks and.

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, that's fun.

[Griffin Newman]

I wore long johns. I did a lot of business. Yeah, I played him like a gremlin. I say I play him like a gremlin. I was a gremlin boy. Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

Is there a Macbeth character that you would want to sink your teeth into?

[Griffin Newman]

The Stephen Rue part. But now it's just. Because I see what he did with it. You would just copying route the muttering lunatic. Yeah. But I admit that, like, I felt I have not attempted it since, but I. Shakespeare is a thing I can absolutely not get my head around as an actor. And I think, like, it's one of the reasons I think Denzel is very good in this is he is one of the only people I have seen work the dialogue so thoroughly that it actually feels like it is coming out of his mouth in real time, out of his head.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's what I find interesting about. About the Denzel performance in this is. It feels like a Denzel Washington performance. It's naturalistic, it's grounded. But the movie around him is very heightened and expressionist. And so to me, there's a.

[Griffin Newman]

You want someone going bigger.

[David Sims]

I know what you're saying, Dana. Right. Because he does feel very grounded, and no one else is really doing grounded, but maybe that's good to set him apart in some way, because Macbeth is so in his own head.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't know. He's such a. He really respects Shakespeare. Right. Like Denzel Washington. He's done it twice on Broadway, both times to unanimously terrible reviews, but not really for him, more for just, like, the productions. He's done it in movies twice. Because he's in Much Ado.

[Dana Schwartz]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Which he's wonderful in. But mostly he's just fine as hell.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Like, he's just playing one of the guys. Right. He did Richard III at the Public a very long time ago, and I think he got good reviews for that. But that was like, when I was a child. I love that he takes Shakespeare so seriously to keep doing it. And I like this performance.

[Dana Schwartz]

Did you see the Jake Gyllenhaal Othello?

[David Sims]

No, I didn't actually, despite being a successful podcaster, have, like, $800 on me to sit in a hammock suspended from the raptors.

[Griffin Newman]

So it was just like the insanity around getting a ticket. And then the first wave of people see the first preview, and they're like, yeah, kind of suc up, like, not.

[David Sims]

Just like, oh, it's not that good. They were like, it's bad, actually actively bad. Like, he's also way too old to be playing a fellow. He's kind of too old to be playing Macbeth.

[Griffin Newman]

Julius Caesar was the other one he did on Broadway.

[David Sims]

That. And that was like, he Played Brutus in that, I think. And that was. That was like, what, at this point, almost 20 years ago? No, it was like 2005. Was it?

[Dana Schwartz]

I mean, I. I never want to age, shame anyone and be like, an actress is too old for a part, which is a thing, you know, that Hollywood loves to say. But I think it is interesting and noteworthy that this is a production of Macbeth, where Lady Macbeth and Macbeth are explicitly past childbearing age, which I think informs the text in an interesting way.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And also past the age that most people lived to in this era.

[David Sims]

Macbeth, King of Scotland, lived to the age of about 51.

[Griffin Newman]

How old, Senzo, when he made this? 66, I'm just telling you.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Although a 51 year old in the 10th century probably looked like 85. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I'm gonna open the dossier. Buster Scruggs is the last film that the Coen brothers made together. After that, Ethan said, I'm sleepy. I want to take a rest.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I'm tired of making movies. We've made too many. We made too many Westerns. I'm exhausted.

[David Sims]

They are very on the. You know, they insist we did not break up. As Ethan puts it, it was just me going, ugh, Right. That's. I'm trying to do.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know, what I did see was an Ethan Cohen play around this time in la. Either a play is a poem or a poem is a play.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

I did not care for it particularly.

[Griffin Newman]

She has a play, a new play running currently, at the time that we're recording this episode off Broadway, that I have heard is quite good from everyone I know who's seen it. It. But that seemed to be the narrative at the time of, you know, Ethan has all these other things he does. He publishes poetry and writes books and does Knights of One acts and whatever. He's maybe going to go off and do all that. He's tired of the machinery of film production. And so it was taken as like, maybe they're just on a hiatus until Ethan gets the bug again. And then this announcement comes out and it's like, oh, shit, Joel's going to do stuff solo. Which I think was not taken as a given at first.

[Dana Schwartz]

I have heard with the dga, if you split as a duo, it is very, very hard to get back together. Maybe there's like a Cohen exception, because they are the Cohen exceptions.

[David Sims]

They may. But who knows what will happen if they do reunite? Right. If. Do they go back to the old school? Joel directs, Ethan produces to avoid DJ business.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know, I'm going to say this. I think I can say this. And we could cut it out later, but we talked about it in our Barton Fink episode in this series that our buddy Chris Weitz was talking about that being an issue where then he and his brother couldn't work together again. And not understanding, like, fuck, is the solo movies going to prevent us from ever getting a proper Cohen collaboration? New friend of the show, Seth Rogen was telling me after listening to that episode.

[David Sims]

He's also, of course, been credited as a director with Evan Goldberg.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. That Favreau has been pretty high on the DJ board for a number of years.

[David Sims]

Johnny Favre.

[Griffin Newman]

And after their battle to get approved to co direct on this Is the End, Favreau brought the two of them onto the DGA board to be like, we need to rethink all of this.

[David Sims]

Right? This is like a annoying rule.

[Griffin Newman]

I think there's. There's a great stability in the last 10 years, only they've become less rigid about it. But, yeah, I don't know. It's a weird, moving target.

[David Sims]

So in 2016, Frances McDormand, I guess, had been basically bugging Joel for a while to direct her in Macbeth on the stage. She did it in 2016.

[Griffin Newman]

She played Lady Macbeth and the witch. Is that right?

[David Sims]

He just says Lady Macbeth. I'm not sure. With Conleth Hill. Great British actor. Or is he Irish I want to miss? Yeah, he's Irish. Sorry. Wonderful actor who everyone knows these days from Game of Thrones, but he's. I saw him in, like, lots of British stage stuff back in the day. But Dan Sullivan directed it. Joel didn't do it. He was not interested in live theater, basically. But he tells her, it's something I could get my head around as a movie. Like, it's not. I don't really want to do theater, but, like, I'm not uninterested in Macbeth. So it's not like he's long wanted to do the Macbeth movie and, like, only his split with Ethan Cohen allows this to happen. It's more, as JJ puts it, he saw his wife do it on stage and was like, that's cool. Like, that's something I could do.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe I could build something around that. But that also makes sense at the moment that he doesn't have another movie lined up. And Joel had been the guy who seemingly kept being like, come on, another one, another one.

[David Sims]

And it's such a non coenzyme thing. Like, so it's sort of like, that's a great Way to do something different.

[Dana Schwartz]

There's no humor in this. Really.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Dana Schwartz]

I mean, tiny bits, but it's not. It's not the tone of the Coen brothers.

[David Sims]

My big take in my review at the time was Macbeth is a very coy character. Like, in that he is a guy who gets in way over his head on a scheme that he doesn't really, like, have a plan. You know what I mean? And then, like, keeps trying to be like, okay, well, what if I do this? But, you know, he does have a coincidence.

[Griffin Newman]

And the cycles of death, like, that's another thing looming over the text that is just like, yeah, death coming for us all in meaningless ways.

[David Sims]

Right. Cohen's friends with Hanford woods, who's an academic who had shot, taught Shakespeare. What's going on with my brain? At Montreal's Dawson College. And so he helps explain Macbeth to Joel Cohen. Cool. And yes, he says it does prefigure a lot of 20th century tropes in American pulp fiction. A couple plotting a murder. It's not dog outside.

[Griffin Newman]

A dog hates murder, by the way. I just want to throw out. McDormand was one of the three witches in that production. She was double cast.

[David Sims]

That's cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is interesting.

[Dana Schwartz]

I like that.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a cool idea. Yeah.

[David Sims]

That seems like a cool interpretation of who's influencing Macbeth here. And Cohen's. I mean, Cohen just says a lot of stuff about Shakespeare. A lot of people would say, which is like, yes, he was a genius of literature, but he was also consummate entertainer. Entertainer. And he was alive to aspects of storytelling and, you know, like. Like, people, I feel like, dig into Shakespeare and realize, like, these plays are thrillers. They're exciting. Like, it's not just boring homework. Right.

[Dana Schwartz]

They're sex jokes.

[David Sims]

They cut about. There's some. Sometimes they make a sex joke, like, their sword's a penis. You know, there's about 15% of dialogue. Macbeth is, I would say, the shortest tragedy already. So it's not that hard to get it into, like, nice movie length. You don't have to do a major excising.

[Griffin Newman]

The Cohens love coming in under two hours.

[David Sims]

That's true.

[Griffin Newman]

It's one of their favorite things.

[David Sims]

And this is a pretty. Like, this would be a tough hang if it was like 2 hours, 20 minutes. This is not a high energy movie.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

JJ has copy pasted gigantic amounts of text of Joel telling me what he decided to cut or not. But I cannot monologue for 20 minutes.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm going to quickly copy paste the copy paste the words, you're fired into our group chat to see how he responds to that.

[Ben Hosley]

Now.

[David Sims]

Now to what Dana's saying, though this is a postmenopausal Macbeth, Cohen acknowledges it was interesting that at this point in his career and in Francis career, they're older. He wanted it to reflect an older couple. He thinks, like, you know, there's only one really good marriage in all of. All of the heterosexual relationships in Shakespeare. He says, there's only one good marriage, I guess, because most Shakespeare's about people who will be getting married later. And he's like, and it's the marriage of Macbeth and Lady Macbeth. Yeah, they're plotting to kill people. But they do. The union is fairly strong.

[Griffin Newman]

They listen to each other.

[David Sims]

Exactly, exactly. So he wanted it to be this kind of, like, substantial older couple. So they changed the line. I can tell you. The original line is Macbeth says, bring forth men, children only for thy understand Metal should compose nothing but males. And Denzel says, should have composed nothing but males. So it's sort of acknowledging that they are past childbearing, The.

[Griffin Newman]

The absolute lack of a biological heir, that they are doing all of this, and there is no bloodline that can.

[Dana Schwartz]

That to me, made this a little bit harder for me to emotionally understand where. If there is absolutely no possibility of a biological heir, then why are you so mad that Banquo's kids are going to become. Someone's going to have to become king after you. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But.

[David Sims]

But what does it have to be Banquo? What about Ross? That guy looks great.

[Dana Schwartz]

But I also think that kind of goes into the. The Cohen of it, where it's like, this guy's just getting in over his head. He's just, like, overthinking everything.

[David Sims]

Well, someone just says to him, you should be the king. And he's like, I shouldn't be the king. His wife's like, well, maybe you shouldn't. He's like, all right, I'll be the king. And now he's. Now he's the king. And he's like, what do I do now?

[Dana Schwartz]

Is Macbeth a beta?

[David Sims]

Macbeth is. Is a bit of a beta cuck. No, he's not. I don't. Is Macbeth a beta? I mean, the thing about Macbeth is he gets told not just the king thing. He gets told that no one can beat him.

[Griffin Newman]

Him.

[David Sims]

That's tough news to hear. You don't want a witch to be telling you that or whatever, right? Because, like, then you're going to start behaving real odd if you're like, I'm invincible.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And I do like the, the Cohen interpretation is like he starts doing some equalizer in the final act when guys are charging at him with swords and he's just like, I'll just fucking like headbutt you. Like, you can't kill me. The witch said so.

[Griffin Newman]

He also views everything and everyone as a threat to kill him.

[David Sims]

Yes, that is true.

[Griffin Newman]

Birds coming at his head. He's like, not today.

[David Sims]

So obviously first actress attached is this sort of little known actress named Frances McDormand. And they're like, okay, who's gonna be like a worthy adversary? And they ponder this guy. They've also been like batting around his name once in a while. Denzel Washington.

[Griffin Newman]

There is no physical release for this movie. Hopefully they'll be corrected at some point.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that'd be nice.

[Griffin Newman]

This is an Apple plus original film co produced with a 24 and IAC on the Apple TV app. There is like one special feature they have attached to it. That's a featurette where everyone talks other than Joel. It is all of the regular close collaborators. It is most of the main actors. They're all talking about how great Joel is and what his vision was and how they serviced it. But Ellen Chenoweth, who's cast a lot of the Coen's movies.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Was just saying like the project is Joel wants to do Macbeth and Frances is set for Lady Macbeth and she's just like. It immediately becomes an incredibly short lived list of like, who is in the right age range, can hold their own against her and is classically trained. Has experience with this.

[David Sims]

Jared Leto.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it was just Jared and Denzel. And Jared, you know, is the king of the box office. There's a reason we keep put him.

[David Sims]

In these $33 million guaranteed for whatever he fucking makes and no more.

[Griffin Newman]

But, but really give him troubled ip. Give him IP that's never quite clicked.

[David Sims]

Stuff that isn't on its own two feet. He will keep it and I guarantee.

[Griffin Newman]

You it will open 10 to 15 million dollars below projections. But, but here's why it's worth it. Because he's such a good guy. The performances are always so memorable.

[David Sims]

It truly is. He's a zero tool player.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. You always make the joke that like when, when they keep green lighting these movies with him, you're like, on paper he looks good, but it's a canard.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's. It's crazy because. Right. You're like, like he's an Oscar winning actor. He's been in hits. He was the joker, right? The Joker. That's a role people have won Oscars for. Not him.

[Dana Schwartz]

Everyone loves, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He was a joker.

[Griffin Newman]

There was a joker sandwich where on either side the pieces of bread were people winning the Oscar for playing the Joker. And it turned out in between the two pieces of bread was nothing.

[David Sims]

What do you mean? He had a mouth on his hand, and so instead of his regular mouth, he could also give you hand mouth.

[Dana Schwartz]

He was damaged. The tattoo said so.

[David Sims]

It did say that.

[Griffin Newman]

It is funny that that is, like, far and away his biggest hit. And they're like, I guess the guy's got box office goods. And you're like.

[David Sims]

Along with his Oscar, they cut his.

[Griffin Newman]

Performance down to six minutes. He is barely in that movie. You can tell there's an hour of footage left on the cutting room floor. No, they were like, if Denzel wants to do this, that's a fucking miracle. That, like, solves all of our problems better than we possibly could have imagined.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, that's a guy you want signing on. They had had lunch. Joel said, like, they had had lunch with him, like, five or six years prior.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

And had a sort of general, like, it would be so cool to do a movie together someday chat. And then apparently, Ethan had said, buster Scruggs. And Denzel was like, I have to go. No, that part didn't happen.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you want to play all of them? But he, like, loves Francis McDormand. Said they have very, very similar work styles.

[David Sims]

Awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And so they have lunch again, and they're like, macbeth. And he's like, yeah, cool. Denzel's favorite Coen Brothers movie, Ladykillers. Oh, brother, where art thou not? Ladykillers.

[Griffin Newman]

That makes sense.

[David Sims]

He says, I don't even know why. It's just so weird. But he likes the Coen Brothers, and he likes Shakespeare. He played Othello in college. He played it later opposite Jake Gyllenhaal. For $1 billion, he could go see it.

[Griffin Newman]

Had he ever played Macbeth on stage.

[David Sims]

He had never done Macbeth. He had, in later years, played. Played Richard iii, as I said, in Brutus and Julius Caesar. He also apparently did Coriolanus, but he did not. Had never really read Macbeth, he said, like, he never really, you know, delved into that one. He said he turned on one of the films. Doesn't even say which one. Watched for two minutes and turned it off and was just like, I'll. I don't want to, like, you know, be affected by anything else. His take on Macbeth is tired. He says.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Says they're older. They're like, look, this is our shot, our due. Give it to us. Drastic times make for drastic measures. And the clock is ticking.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's coming back from war. None of their chairs look comfortable.

[David Sims]

No, they had not invented comfy chairs. They were hundreds of years before someone put a pillow on a chair.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know if this was intentional or not, but this is what I think is interesting about them being older. It does reflect a modern hell we live in of people refusing to retire.

[David Sims]

Are you saying this is a Biden Macbeth?

[Griffin Newman]

Not even Biden as much as, I think more like. Like, CEOs and shit. Right? But even, like, senators and all this shit. Like, our. Our buddy Scott Gardner always calls it filibustering, but he's just like, these people refuse to let go of their fucking chairs in any environment. And this idea of, like, why would you go through all this fucking effort? Why won't retire? Chill out. And instead, these people just seemingly get hungrier and hungrier and hungrier when they're going to have less and less time to even enjoy the fruits of their labor. Like, what's the point? Why are you fighting for this? You know, the Jay Leno thing of just like, you don't touch your Tonight show money. You don't have kids. You're 75. What are you saving it for? Why are you still on the road, tumbling down hills, catching on fire? Right? Like, just chill out.

[David Sims]

My guy, he didn't light on fire himself on fire. A car lit him on fire that he was in or whatever. Whatever that was.

[Griffin Newman]

And the car yelled, stop collecting us.

[Dana Schwartz]

There's also a very, like, boomer sense of entitlement to it.

[Griffin Newman]

This is what I'm talking about.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know, Brendan Gleason gives his son a title that Macbeth gets jealous and threatened by, and he's like, well, I just want to battle. I should also have that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yes. There's. There's a freak out at the younger generation and a fundamental condescension of, you guys just don't get it.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I actually need to keep doing this because there's no one who could do this in my stead.

[David Sims]

Yeah, Leno might be a good Macbeth, though. That is an interesting thing to explore. Do you think Leno is, like, a good tipper?

[Griffin Newman]

Like, he better be right.

[Dana Schwartz]

I think he is right.

[David Sims]

Does he, like, get good gifts?

[Griffin Newman]

He's sort of notoriously generous. Right.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

I'm glad to see st Gives good gifts.

[Ben Hosley]

Gifts.

[Griffin Newman]

He was.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I assume he doesn't pick out the.

[Griffin Newman]

Stuff, but he was always, I, I, I feel like by reputation, incredibly generous to his entire staff for his entire run of Tonight Show. But it is a confounding thing where you're like, that's his legacy, that he hosted the tonight show for 20 years. That he has never touched a scent of that and that he lives off of touring money only. And so he still does like 150 dates a year. And that alone pays for all the cars.

[David Sims]

He also wrote a children's book despite not having any children. I don't know what it's called.

[Griffin Newman]

What?

[David Sims]

Do you know what I'm talking about? No Beef Could Fly.

[Griffin Newman]

It's called what?

[Dana Schwartz]

Jimmy Fallon also wrote a children's book.

[David Sims]

He at least has children, but I have.

[Griffin Newman]

Jimmy Fallon has written like 15 children's books. I went down this rabbit hole.

[David Sims]

He's like, are you looking it up?

[Griffin Newman]

He's hit every holiday. It's like, one sleep till Christmas, one sleep till Halloween. He, I want to say he co wrote a Spanish one with JLo.

[David Sims]

Are you talking about Fallon?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

I will say, you really realize when you're shopping for children's books, how many celebrities will just slap their names on.

[Griffin Newman]

The children's just become the, like, fucking high end liquor.

[David Sims]

All I know about if Roast Beef Could Fly, because I think Scott Arkerman talks about it a lot on Comedy Bang Bang, which makes. Sounds right. That sounds right. Yeah. Is that it's like some childhood story where, like, his dad threw a roast beef out the window, but it's been turned into, like, a nice story.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Jared Leto. Just check in with him. I had that opened up.

[Dana Schwartz]

Should we get him to write a children's book?

[David Sims]

Jared Leto has made one movie.

[Dana Schwartz]

Get him to write a children's.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely.

[David Sims]

He has made one movie that's grossed $100 million domestic plus.

[Dana Schwartz]

Is it suicide Squad?

[Griffin Newman]

Suicide Squad, that's it. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number two is what Griffin did.

[Dana Schwartz]

Fight Club. Not.

[David Sims]

No, not close.

[Griffin Newman]

37 is number two. Panic room.

[David Sims]

Yes. Which almost made 195. And of course, he, he's not the star of that.

[Dana Schwartz]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's. There's a direct correlation. The higher up he is on the call sheet, the lower the grosses go.

[David Sims]

If you cast him, I genuinely think a witch's curse befalls you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Because like, Blade Runner 2049, people kind of wanted that to do better. And it didn't quite, you know. It did. Okay. Morbius obviously underachieved. Then Recent Haunted Mansion, obviously underachieved. House of Gucci. People were hyped. It did okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

But how's Tron Aries doing?

[Griffin Newman]

Poorly. Not so good.

[David Sims]

But even though Tron Aries, the character is doing great.

[Griffin Newman]

He's doing.

[David Sims]

It's also funny that those movies are called Tron. Tron is a character.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

He is not present.

[Griffin Newman]

They've now made two films where Tron isn't really this.

[David Sims]

He appears in the second one. He's not in the third one, but.

[Griffin Newman]

They'Re hiding him in the second one. Yes. Oh, that was Tron.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I was going to.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's a Thin man situation.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, a little bit. A little bit.

[David Sims]

Absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

What was I gonna say about Jared Leto? I don't know.

[David Sims]

You love him.

[Griffin Newman]

I love him. He's really good. You know, I was gonna say Blade Runner 2049. I remember you seeing it, and I was like, how's Leto in it? And you were like, he's actually not in it that much. He's got like three scenes. He's fine.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's fine.

[Griffin Newman]

And I'm like, why was he 60 of every trailer? You're right that I think the Leto bit them in the ass. But they were marketing as.

[David Sims]

I know. I know people want to see Leto go in that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

He basically stays in one room. He's funny, fine. It's a better use of him than most post Oscar movies have had.

[David Sims]

Right, right. Anyway, they. Cohen and McDormand had met Catherine Hunter all the way back in 1991. They'd always wanted to do a movie with her.

[Griffin Newman]

Feels like a classic. Cohen back pocket. We saw this person kill it off Broadway or on the west side.

[David Sims]

Literally. It's here in, like, a Charleston production.

[Griffin Newman]

Someday we will put you in something.

[Dana Schwartz]

She famously, I think, played Richard iii.

[David Sims]

That's a very famous Globe performance that she gave that. When you see pictures of it, you're like, that rocks. That looks cool. I feel like she's best known for playing Arabella Fig in the Harry Potter movies, but otherwise is mostly a stage actor.

[Dana Schwartz]

There's a big.

[David Sims]

There's sort of. Now she's kind of popping up.

[Dana Schwartz]

There's like a Harry Potter reunion happening in this movie.

[David Sims]

Who else we got? Well, Gleason.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Melling. Yeah. Her post Macbeth run is very cool. Like, she does poor things in Megalopolis and Andor and Hess up.

[David Sims]

She's so good in Andor. I forgot about that.

[Griffin Newman]

She definitely, like, is the person who got the biggest bump from this.

[David Sims]

How do you watch this movie and not go like, who is that?

[Griffin Newman]

What would be a fun way to use her?

[Dana Schwartz]

How can we Put her in a movie. She'll just give us more juice.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Apparently in their first meeting they said, how do you envision this physically? Catherine got up on a coffee table, put took black pantyhose out of her backpack and pulled them over her head and started bending into the shape she does in the film.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oh, she's. That's amazing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, she's doing some sims.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, she really is.

[Griffin Newman]

Horrific double jointed nonsense.

[David Sims]

She wanted to evoke crows. She was thinking about like crows on a battlefield afterwards, like scavenging Reno rather than. She did not want to do like, I'm a witch with a pointy nose at a cauldron. Right. You know, she didn't want to do the classic witch stuff.

[Ben Hosley]

Seems like a great hang.

[David Sims]

So a lot of like, stuff. The witches. Yeah, I mean, they are kind of cool.

[Ben Hosley]

They seem like they got stories.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, they'll tell you in like riddles. But they do have stories.

[David Sims]

Right. That's the problem. You can't be like, so how's your day?

[Griffin Newman]

Like, sure.

[David Sims]

What's up, guys? So I've got a question for all the gamers out there. Are you seriously gonna miss out on Alienware's biggest gaming sale of the year?

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, these are Black Friday day prices we're talking about, so it's not just another sale. I took a look and this is some pretty big bang for your buck.

[David Sims]

Yeah, you know, Italianware with some of the most advanced engineering out there. They got systems at top of reviewers lists. And what about a gift for yourself?

[Griffin Newman]

You gift yourself a new Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop. I mean, this thing's got performance at the absolute next level with Intel Core Ultra processors.

[David Sims]

And even better, you can get it during Black Friday. Plus you can save on all kinds of displays and accessories like the Alienware 27 4K QD OLED gaming monitor for ultimate visual fidelity. I might need that. These really are incredible deals on PCs with otherworldly performance.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's what I'd do. I'd visit alienware.com deals soon and grab what you can before they're big. Biggest sell of the year goes dark. David.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

This episode is brought to you by mubi, the global film company that champions great cinema. From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there is always something new to discover. And with mubi, each and every film is hand selected so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere. But also. David.

[David Sims]

No, that's it. That done. Good recommendation of movie.

[Griffin Newman]

No. What? Also projected upon the silver screen.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Movie releases films too, in physical movie theater.

[David Sims]

And they've got a humdinger called Die My Love.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the new picture from Lynn Ramsey, someone I have long maintained is one of our finest living filmmakers.

[Ben Hosley]

That is true.

[Griffin Newman]

A genius, in my opinion. It is coming to US theaters on November 7th. It is a visceral, an uncompromising portrait of a woman engulfed by love and madness. Who's playing that woman, David?

[David Sims]

Jennifer Lawrence. Have you heard of her? This film is excellent.

[Griffin Newman]

You've seen it?

[David Sims]

I sure have.

[Griffin Newman]

I am dying to see it. I guess I was dying, my love, to see it.

[David Sims]

Yes, it stars Jennifer Lawrence and Robert Pattinson, two of our very exciting stars.

[Griffin Newman]

Mystique and Batman themselves.

[David Sims]

They are playing a couple who moves out to the woods to Montana to raise their kid. After they have a kid and feel normal, everything goes regular for them in their brains when they do this.

[Griffin Newman]

This is her first film since you were never really here. One of my favorite movies of the last decade.

[David Sims]

Yes, it was a can. It's very, very intense. Very incredible performance from Jennifer Lawrence, especially in my opinion. Awesome soundtrack that I think Ben's going to dig.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Lynne Ramsey makes movies differently than anyone else on the planet. I feel like she is uniquely skilled at a kind of method she has created for depicting the inner life through sound and image. Her movies thrill me. And I will say, if you're a listener of this podcast, it might be beneficial to go see Die My Love sooner rather than later. Winky wink. Die My Love is now in theaters.

[David Sims]

Go see it.

[Griffin Newman]

You can visit mubi.com dye my love for showtimes and tickets. And to stream great films at home, you can try MUBI free for 30 [e-mail] blankcheck that's m u b I.com blankcheck for a whole month of great cinema for free. Can we talk about the sort of narrative of the split right? To date, we only have this one Joel movie. Ethan has been doing all of his shit. It starts to feel a little too cut and dry that people are like, got it. Here's the takeaway. Joel is the visualist. He's the mordant one. He's just like black hearted, death obsessed. Ethan is all the like goofy, silly boys, dumb people up shit. Right, right, right. But they, they're not doing anything to help dispel that narrative. It's why I'm very interested to see the next film. But it is like, I think it is the common complaint of this movie where you're just like, it's really Got like negative humor going on. Yes. And it is so oppressively dark that as much as I think this film is like, beautiful, an incredible object, like an incredible triumph of film production, even at under two hours, it starts to get a little relentless. Like, I feel pretty beaten down an hour into this movie.

[Dana Schwartz]

The score is also just very like to use what Jason Segel says in Forgetting Sarah Marshall. It's just like ominous tones.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

I love that scene in Forgetting Sarah Marshall.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. But that. Right. Carter Burwell isn't like writing like an epic score.

[David Sims]

No, no. They obviously never wanted to do a let's rent a castle, let's get some horses, let's go out into the countryside, classic Macbeth kind of thing. They always wanted to do something abstract.

[Griffin Newman]

And beyond that, the Joel was like, I think this show works better if you tie it to the theatrical.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I need to create something that is cinematic and visual. But is this fucking ten minute special feature the word abstraction or abstracted?

[David Sims]

Oh, they say that one.

[Griffin Newman]

It said 8,000 times. As they're talking to every sort of above the line person, they're like, these were our marching orders. That he wanted something that felt otherworldly.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's artificial by design.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And it's very German expressionist. It's very murnau.

[David Sims]

It might shock you to learn that this was actually all filmed on a soundstage. That's a quote from Joel Cohen. Everything was built. Bruno Dibenel, the amazing DP who shot a couple Coen movies and. And Harry Potter and the Half Blood.

[Griffin Newman]

Prince, prefers to shoot on stages. Loves the complete control of being able to light his own universe. So he was just fucking thrilled at this. A surprising amount of this movie is cgi.

[Dana Schwartz]

Really?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And I feel like I was talking to someone who was saying, they don't like Buster Scruggs because Buster Scruggs feels too digital. And that's a thing that the Cohens avoided. But basically, like from no country on, they are. Are some of the best at doing invisible cg.

[David Sims]

Like digital, sort of like messing around.

[Griffin Newman]

Set expansion, removing things, adjusting things.

[David Sims]

I think they have all these like foam blocks, basically.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then they would, like rehearse the scenes with Denzel or Francis or whoever. They would walk around and they'd be like, great, let's move the blocks now to reflect whatever it is they want to do, whatever they're sort of figuring out in rehearsal. And then. Yes. I imagine they just built everything else out in the computer.

[Griffin Newman]

Basically.

[David Sims]

It's sort of like the volume and the Mandalorian is also in this.

[Griffin Newman]

They had a lot of set pieces, but they were more modular. You can watch this featurette and they show you the, like, VFX breakdowns of the layers coming in. But they were also like. You know, we've been working with Joel and Ethan for, like. I guess they just said Joel. We've been working with Joel for, like, the last 10 years. We have a good collaboration with him. We understand the language. This is the most. We worked with a DP because it wasn't just someone else is shooting it and then handing it to us and saying, take this out or make this taller. That a lot of it was Bruno coming in and being like, the shadow is this, you know, the extension. The wall needs to go this high and the light's coming from here, and.

[Dana Schwartz]

A lot of the shadows are, like, purposefully artificial. It feels like.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct, correct. So a lot of this is lit on the day. You know, they were like. We tried to get stuff in camera as much as possible, but it is painterly. What I like about it, what I think is so successful, is all the most digital effects. First of all, all the sets look like they're real. You buy them. It helps that they have a design language that is so simplistic that it's pretty inexpensive to just build. Like a giant column with no real definition, cast in shadow, holding nothing up. Right. You could just build that. It just makes life easier to, like, build it after the fact. But even things like the reflection inside the wall. Water. Right. I like that they use CGI to make something that looks like. Like an old fool's effect or something. Right.

[Dana Schwartz]

Cuts down on the smoke budget, I imagine. If they're not using digital smoke, the smoke machines are running.

[Griffin Newman]

The smoke is all digital. A lot of the things that look.

[David Sims]

Like Joel cone smoking weed on stage.

[Griffin Newman]

We've. We've heard from people that Joel is very into death metal.

[David Sims]

Sick.

[Griffin Newman]

That he's, like, into, like, pitch black, super hardcore death metal. And this definitely feels like, like the movie where Ethan removed from the equation. He's just going full. Like, nothing matters.

[David Sims]

Del Be calls it a haiku. Right. Stripping everything down to essentials, like his sort of visual approach. Big influence is Edward Gordon Craig, who directed a lot of Shakespeare at the turn of the 20th century. Pioneered, like, big screens and geometric shapes, things like that. Obviously, German expressionism. Cohen talks about Metropolis a lot, the slang film with a big robot in it. Now, this film was gonna have a robot, and they took it out. It's a joke.

[Griffin Newman]

Cowards.

[David Sims]

Yes. And they have A bunch of other visual references that you can look up, but it's hard to describe. Visual references on an audio podcast. Sunrise, the Murnau film.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Geometric sort of, you know, qualities to even like fields and stuff in that movie. Yada, yada yada.

[Griffin Newman]

They actually.

[David Sims]

Oh, my God. Richard Bell. This is. Okay. Deschant. Who's Deschant? Jj, you're so fired. So many fucking names in this thing.

[Griffin Newman]

How Dear jj make you learn things.

[David Sims]

Stephane Deschamp, the production designer, had a friend. I'm just laughing at this because I had made a Mandalorian joke who worked as the greens supervisor on Mandalorian and invented something called the Moss o matic.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Which is a gun hooked up to a tank that makes like instant grass. Basically it shoots glue and moss and you can like give your text, your, your set some texture. So that's fun.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's amazing.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's another thing about this movie. Unlike most black and white films, everything other than the actors was black and white. The sets are black and white. The costumes were black and white.

[David Sims]

Right. What they were too lazy to make Frances McDormand, black and white every day. Painter, black and white.

[Griffin Newman]

That's how you save money on the budget. You don't put color into anything. But yes, most, most black and white films, you can see the behind the scenes photos. A. They were not actually shot in black and white as we've discussed. I feel like on man who Wasn't There and some other films, they convert them later. This was like shot in black and white and everything on set was black and white. Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's a very technical thing what they're doing. And there is oodles of stuff in JJ's research about just how methodical they were about approaching lighting and set design and all this stuff. Right. Okay, that's cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

At a certain point you worry that your movie's gonna get lost a little bit in your. In the. In the technical. Right. Like that. If you're doing something so abstract, you know, does it just become sort of this pretty thing for you to look at? Like, can you connect with Macbeth? Who's doing this weird thing? It's the problem with Shakespeare.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Which I love Shakespeare to death, of course. But, like, you know, I'm here to see Macbeth. I'm like, well, I know what's gonna happen. And there's a little bit of like. You don't wanna feel like the thing's just hitting checkpoints.

[Griffin Newman]

I find this thing and I don't.

[David Sims]

I mostly enjoy this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I find this thing. Compelling and engaging, but not very emotionally inviting.

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, that's what I was gonna say. For someone who is unfamiliar with the text of Macbeth, I think a lot of Shakespeare productions will do a little bit of hand holding to do a lot of signifiers and signposts. For someone who isn't familiar with Shakespearean language to like, really communicate what's going on. Like, you don't need to necessarily know the poetry, but we'll tell you the story. This is not a movie that holds your hand. Really.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

You just sort of have to be along for the ride. I like it a lot, but I don't think I would like, recommend it to someone who, like, is like, I don't really like Shakespeare here.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I was pretty much kind of like as soon as this started, like, what's up?

[Griffin Newman]

And that was one of the poll quotes they used, weirdly.

[David Sims]

I mean, obviously. Right. Any geographical context has been stripped away. The idea that he's king of a kingdom.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Which is already a little remote. Macbeth. Because Macbeth is mostly just set in castles. Like, it's not like you see him like, meeting throngs of people or crowds or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

But the Kurzel movie is like very of the land that is a real. We're in the marsh.

[David Sims]

But you're like, he's the king. And you're like, he's the king of what? He sits in a chair in like.

[Dana Schwartz]

The king of this white field.

[David Sims]

Right. Apple Store. Like, cool. Okay. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

The whole movie just feels like a. A nightmare. It doesn't feel like it exists in a tangible reality. I want to correct myself on something. I had the. The sort of split wrong. This movie was basically 3/4 completed before lockdown and then the rest was shot in it. But like 36 days in total of filming. Even with you imagine the post pandemic days being a lot longer and slower, which is the shortest shoot Joel has ever done.

[Dana Schwartz]

I will say this set does look easy to sanitize. All these surfaces look really easy to.

[David Sims]

Clorox and pull a big lever and there's like sprinklers or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Unless they're dueling, the actors tend to be pretty far from each other too. Yeah.

[David Sims]

So Macbeth, it's about this guy, Macbeth. He's the Thane of Glamis.

[Griffin Newman]

Uh huh.

[David Sims]

Y' all into that?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I love that.

[David Sims]

Glamis is a. A tiny village in Scotland in Angus, sort of like sort of southeast Scotland. It's got a castle still there. You can go if you want. You want to see the castle yeah, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

To me.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oh, that's a nice looking castle.

[David Sims]

That's cool. Nice. The queen's mom is from there. Not that the queen's dead now, but, you know, former Queen Elizabeth. Yeah, he's. Thank. Glamis has had a big victory. Am I gonna do the plot of Macbeth, please? You know, over the Thane of Cawdor and he goes to see some witches on a battlefield. Or accidentally he's with Banquo, the witches.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of come to see him. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And they do a whole thing where it's one actress and then there's a puddle and looks like there's three of them.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool.

[David Sims]

And they say, ah, Macbeth, Thane of Cawor. And then they're like. He's like, I guess so. Not really, but okay. And they're like, macbeth, King of Scotland. Banquo, not king. Banquo's like, fuck. And they're like, but your sons will be kings. See you later. Right? Is that what happens?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. And I will say, if that witch delivered a prophecy to me, you believe what. What she's gonna say.

[David Sims]

Yeah, she's very compelling.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a very arresting open. Yeah. And you, you. I mean, you start the movie with her, like untangling her body and speaking to you, the audience member.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is the thing I wish this movie could sustain a little more is the like gothic horror of it. Yeah. That feels like that would be cool to have as emotional element that it's able to actually kind of pull you in.

[David Sims]

With King Duncan, played by Brendan Gleason is the king and he meets Macbeth. He sees Macbeth. He's like, great job, buddy. Thana Cawdor, if I ever saw this guy. Fucking screams. Thana Cawdor. Carter, all yours.

[Griffin Newman]

Gonna put in a good word for you.

[David Sims]

And Macbeth's like. And he's like. And of course, my heir is Dudley Dursley. This guy right here. We didn't see this coming. He slimmed down. He's become a thespian.

[Dana Schwartz]

Compelling fate. Interesting face, good eyes.

[David Sims]

Honestly, incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

He rules.

[David Sims]

And it's like one of those things where I feel like a lot of people are like, he's Neville. Right? And it's like, no, he's not even Neville. He's the fucking mean bully kid that Harry has to live with.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the shitty stepbrother.

[David Sims]

He's the one.

[Dana Schwartz]

You almost kind of feel bad for him. You imagine in filming, like, all the other kids get to go to Hogwarts.

[David Sims]

Right? You're right. They all get to hang out in the Castle and wear uniforms and play Quidditch or whatever.

[Dana Schwartz]

He probably never got to hang out with the other kids.

[David Sims]

Yeah, we'll shoot you out in five days. And bully Harry Potter. Okay, we're done. We're done.

[Griffin Newman]

The other thing is that, like, he slimmed down a couple of movies in. So then he's wearing a fat suit.

[David Sims]

I believe that's right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

The first thing I saw him in that wasn't Harry Potter was Lost City of Z, which he rocks. And then he's in the scenes where they're all like, fighting in the. You know, the Royal Society of Geographers or whatever the hell Explorers. The Explorers Club, where they're all like, I'm the best explorer. All those scenes which are so good. And he's so good at being like a. An evil jerk.

[Ben Hosley]

Feels like he has to be an actor. Like, he couldn't just be like a waiter.

[David Sims]

He's too, like walking around with that face.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. You're just be like, ah, I don't know.

[David Sims]

I'll.

[Ben Hosley]

I'll have soup, I guess.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you seen Pion? Is that what it's.

[David Sims]

No, but I want to.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know about.

[Dana Schwartz]

No. A.

[Griffin Newman]

A erotic. What? I mean, the description here is a directionless man is swept off his feet when an enigmatic, impossible, possibly handsome biker takes him on as his submissive.

[David Sims]

Yes. So Harry Melling is the sub and the dom is Alexander Skarsgard.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And it just premiered at New York film festival.

[David Sims]

And a 24.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah, but he's a 24.

[David Sims]

We're like, by the pricking of my hands. Yeah, sure. We. We want to make blockbusters now, but that sounds like one of ours.

[Griffin Newman]

He's incredible in Scruggs. We will have talked about that.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's amazing in Scrubs.

[Griffin Newman]

I love him in the Old Guard, a movie that is good.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he is. He's the sort of Mark Zuckerberg in that. He's the villain.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but he's basically good in everything. I'm always excited to see him.

[David Sims]

Yeah, totally.

[Griffin Newman]

But yes. The exact guy you don't want to lose a job to.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. Nepo baby.

[Griffin Newman]

Cast within a film. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, to be fair, in Scottish and most royal antiquity, Nepo babies did tend to get the crown.

[Griffin Newman]

Was sort of procedure really used to be a problem.

[Dana Schwartz]

I will also say, just like in.

[David Sims]

Prince William, low key. A Nepo baby.

[Griffin Newman]

No one talks about this.

[David Sims]

Sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

I just found out who Prince William's dad is and it is blowing my head and I'm pointing at the text above My head. Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

No, I will say, like, historically, the. The really laid in stone issue of, like, primogeniture, which is that your son is going to take over after you got a boy. Gotta have a boy. It wasn't explicitly set at this period the same way. Because if you're.

[David Sims]

Name a good heir.

[Dana Schwartz]

If your son is a dud. If he's a kid.

[Griffin Newman]

You had a mulligan. You can.

[David Sims]

And because I have a dud son instead, my heir is McBean. This guy rocks.

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, it's just also easier for you if you're, like, a powerful lord and you know that the son is a dud. When the king dies, it, like, isn't impossible for you to gather support.

[David Sims]

And what if you marry your dud son to, like, some hot lady who maybe can spit out some fire grandsons for you? Or, you know, there's a lot of. There's a lot of angles.

[Griffin Newman]

They're angles. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

But.

[David Sims]

Okay, so meth, of course, won't be a king of Scotland. Bummer.

[Griffin Newman]

Unless.

[David Sims]

Unless he goes home and talks to his wife, the conveniently named Lady McBe. You think those guys swiped left on Tinder? I could do so many stupid jokes.

[Griffin Newman]

Do that.

[David Sims]

Her name's Lady Macbeth. This woman's made for me.

[Griffin Newman]

Her parents named her Lady.

[Dana Schwartz]

She's just Macbeth, but with a. With a bow.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but the gameplay is a little stronger.

[Dana Schwartz]

Her gameplay is a little stronger.

[Griffin Newman]

It is a little stronger.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

She's like, thanks. Yeah.

[David Sims]

We could. We could kill Duncan.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

She gets word because he reported back, like, pretty weird. Like, the witch said I was gonna become king, but I'm not gonna become king.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That's so funny. I've been thinking a lot about murder recently.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right? Yeah. What do you think?

[Griffin Newman]

This knife is way too clean.

[David Sims]

My sleep is so untroubled. Like, I'd love to walk the halls being crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna shake it up a little bit.

[Dana Schwartz]

And what's done can be undone.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Of course.

[Dana Schwartz]

Just in case.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course. That's.

[David Sims]

We all know about death now. Yeah. So he does kill him in his sleep.

[Dana Schwartz]

A classic Coen brothers thing is accidentally bringing the knife back to his room.

[David Sims]

That's true. He's already messing up.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And also that it's kind of like an awkward, clumsy death.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That it's not a classic Shakespearean, like, just, blade goes in, man falls to the ground. That you have this, like, uncomfortable sputtering and him lying there in an ugly position.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's very like the. The. The shooting In Fargo. And like, the blood splatter is like more human than you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. In the car I. I saw someone on the Reddit was saying that they've been struggling in watching these movies with how flippantly the Cohen to tries treat death. And certainly their comedies, it can often be used as a punchline the way that the deaths stack up. But I think they like, really. And watching this film, you get the sense that it's more Joel than Ethan. Are kind of obsessed with the weight of death and obsessed with how flippantly it can happen. Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

Superhero and action movies to me make death weightless and frictionless.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Dana Schwartz]

And I think Coen Brothers movies, by contrast, make. Make death feel very emotionally affecting.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes, yes. And. And like, uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah.

[David Sims]

The real Duncan was of course slain in battle at the battle of Pit. Gavin, I'm telling you guys, something you already know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I got tattooed on my chest.

[David Sims]

That'd be weird. Visited a real king. Duncan, I think it looks nice. Was not killed in his sleep. What Macbeth is doing here is like violating the ancient sort of blood, bread and salt thing. Right? Like, sort of like if you have someone in your home, you're kind of promising you won't do this to them. Like the number one rule of, like, being a human, please don't murder me. Right. In like, medieval times especially, it's like.

[Dana Schwartz]

It'S violating in the way that, like, the psycho, like, killing someone in a shower. Well, I'm supposed to be safe here. I'm like, if you're. If I'm a house guest in your home, presumably they're not going to kill you in your bed.

[David Sims]

Yes. So it's kind of like he's kind of doomed from the minute he does this. I feel.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You know, it's like he's getting it the wrong way. He's fulfilling the prophecy in the most literal way of like, yes, he can become the king. But, like, what is being the king if, like, you're basically immediately like, okay, who's gonna try and kill me now?

[Griffin Newman]

Dana, as you called out, it's a classic Cohenzy story of a guy makes one bad decision and doesn't quite know how to deal with the fallout of it. Right. Ben, we keep asking you because this filmography really tees up.

[David Sims]

Now. You're Irish, not Scottish. Really? Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Classic Ben Hosley. If I had been in this mostly just Irish Irish, everything would have worked out great.

[David Sims]

You don't have a clan, you don't have a tartan you've ever looked up or whatever. Everyone loves to look up their clan.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, no, I guess the Walsh side, which is my mother's maiden name. We do have a crest.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Sounds pretty.

[Griffin Newman]

What's on the crest? What does it look like?

[Ben Hosley]

I forget now.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just like a tube of toothpaste.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's funny.

[Ben Hosley]

That's pretty funny.

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm really tired.

[David Sims]

Tired?

[Griffin Newman]

It's Comic Con weekend. That's why Dana's here.

[David Sims]

That's why Dana's here.

[Dana Schwartz]

Gauntlet, pre order the book the Arcane Arts.

[Griffin Newman]

This is your newly announced book. You just announced it at the Con.

[Dana Schwartz]

The Con with covered cover reveal.

[Griffin Newman]

You got so many projects.

[Dana Schwartz]

I'm. I'm busy working.

[David Sims]

Dana's always like, texting me, like, when are you going to write a book? And I'm like, I'm busy, Dana. And Dana's like, Right. I don't really. I guess I don't really get that. Like, I'm always just doing another thing. You do so many things.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, Ben is showing us the crest.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's a cool crest. I like it.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool.

[David Sims]

Solid.

[Ben Hosley]

Three arrows.

[Dana Schwartz]

It looks like three roads, almost roads pulling forward.

[Griffin Newman]

Three, like PC pointers.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's got three mouse pointers to honor his. His skills as a Mac user.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Okay, thanks. All right. But anyway, what's your question to Ben Hosley?

[Griffin Newman]

Ben.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

If you were Macbeth.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

How would things turn out for you? What would you have done differently?

[Ben Hosley]

Okay. I have a feeling I might. This one up.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. Unfortunately.

[Griffin Newman]

You think there's no way out on this?

[Dana Schwartz]

No way out of murdering a kid.

[David Sims]

Now, are you pro murder?

[Ben Hosley]

H. Let me ponder that.

[Griffin Newman]

Strip the chin on this one.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm going to go ahead and say no.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Good to have that on record.

[David Sims]

I want to have the sixth commandment over here. Yeah, Right.

[Griffin Newman]

This biblical. But you don't covet thy neighbor's wife either. Loser.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, okay.

[David Sims]

Well, there was an incident in Scotland in Scottish history where, like, guestright was somewhat broken, I think. Right. But it's later and I think it's sort of post. I don't know. Like, it doesn't matter. I wonder if Shakespeare's referencing something.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, Is your answer that you just simply don't murder the guy and feel comfortable with your position and just stay where you are.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. Just take your white shin's.

[David Sims]

Nice.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's not bad. Nice work if you can get it.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, absolutely. It seems like if anything, he's moving up.

[David Sims]

Up.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And he should just chill.

[Griffin Newman]

You know what, like retire yeah, absolutely.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know what he could do if he actually did want to become king? The non murder strategy is to undermine the son. Start, like, whispering to Brendan Gleason. Like, your son seems kind of bad at being a king. I didn't want to say anything.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, no, here, I got it. I meet the witches, they give me this prophecy. I go, I don't know about all that murder stuff, but do you guys want to chill?

[Griffin Newman]

That's what you do.

[Dana Schwartz]

By the cauldron, petal.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you just become best friends with.

[Ben Hosley]

The witches, and we just, like, have like, kind of like a witch club.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, do you bring your wife in on it or not?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

Absolutely.

[Dana Schwartz]

I think if you don't tell your wife that you got this prophecy, that's not a good marriage.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Also, if you're like, I met these cool friends. They're witches. She's gonna ask a lot of questions. Like, so what do they look? Are they, like, pretty? Like, what are they?

[David Sims]

Do they have, like an Instagram I could, like, check out?

[Griffin Newman]

Do you find them attractive?

[Dana Schwartz]

And there's three of them. They're sort of tripping.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, right?

[David Sims]

So, like, do they. What does that imply?

[Griffin Newman]

Is that like a thing you fantasized about? I know you're telling me you're just friends with them, but you never let me come along to the puddle room.

[David Sims]

Robert the Bruce killed John Common in a church is what I was referencing. Guys, can.

[Griffin Newman]

You can look that up?

[Dana Schwartz]

That sounds like a no no.

[David Sims]

It was seen as somewhat of a no, no, though it helped him consolidate power. So what I just.

[Ben Hosley]

See, I've never seen this before, but apparently.

[David Sims]

Oh, is your clan canceled?

[Ben Hosley]

It's just three fish.

[Griffin Newman]

All right, not bad.

[David Sims]

They're probably gonna get fish.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

All right.

[David Sims]

You feeling bummed out about this?

[Ben Hosley]

A little bit.

[David Sims]

Hey, man, back in the day, life in Scotland, there's a lot of water around you. You gotta eat. Gotta get that fish.

[Ben Hosley]

I was just hoping it'd be like, I don't know, bones or something.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that would be cool.

[Dana Schwartz]

Fish have bones, which have bones.

[David Sims]

Top cat's always showing us the bones. And I do.

[Ben Hosley]

I do love seeing the fish that way.

[Griffin Newman]

It's one of the best things. And then the bone Top cat does. He really educates us. He does us a service.

[David Sims]

Show the skeletons.

[Griffin Newman]

If you took an X ray to that crest, it'd be lousy with bones, Ben. You're right.

[David Sims]

But it would be cool if you were like, let me look up my clan and be like, the bone clan that feared For a thousand years, there's bones.

[Ben Hosley]

And then someone just screaming, right.

[David Sims]

Anyway, they kill Duncan. Sorry. And.

[Dana Schwartz]

Macduff comes to visit the next day, and he's like, would love to see the alive king.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I'm here to see our greatest. This breath drawing guy, King Duncan. Where is he at? And so they kill some servants. McMalcom flees to England over the border, and Macbeth gets that crown. And so immediately his gaze falls to Banquo because it's like, okay, well, the next thing is that you were in that fucking prophecy too. I gotta deal with it.

[Dana Schwartz]

And Banquo also was with him for the witch prophecy. So he's like, well, he might. We kind of know that the king was murdered. And he kind of knows I'm a suspect.

[David Sims]

As much as Shakespeare made Banquo a not villainous character, he is culpable or whatever. Like, Banquo is kind of just like a bystander. He kind of knows what's going on and doesn't, like, do anything about it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes. Now, the. The aforementioned crown, it rests easily upon his head. Lightly.

[David Sims]

This shit is light. I'm gonna do cartwheels.

[Griffin Newman]

Gravity, not an issue.

[David Sims]

And so what's the next thing you gotta do? You gotta go kill Banquo, right? So there's two assassins. Do you know about the third murderer? You know what I'm talking about?

[Dana Schwartz]

The third assassin. This is a very. This is also one of the most exciting things about this movie, specifically to me, right?

[David Sims]

So I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a scene where Macbeth recruits two murderers, right?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. And then this movie happens in, like, the tent.

[Griffin Newman]

The Menendez brothers.

[David Sims]

But there are then three murderers.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, okay.

[David Sims]

Who carry out the crime. And in this movie, it's. Ross is the third murderer.

[Dana Schwartz]

And the other two murderers in that scene are like, who are you? And he's like, macbeth sent me. I'm also here for this.

[David Sims]

Sometimes I think in the stage productions, the character's literally just an extra and they don't think about it, but it's like an opportunity for you to, like, you know, like, interpret something, like, more complicated happening. Right. I mean, I don't know how else to describe.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, like, some. Cause. Cause it's like. It's kind of interesting. Like, oh, why would Shakespeare have a third murderer in the murder scene but not the recruiting scene? I've seen some writing about productions that have actually Macbeth be the third murderer. That then he's, like, late to his own banquet because he was making sure the job was done. But this movie makes the choice of taking the sort of side character Ross and not only giving him this sort of media role as the, the third assassin, but kind of like making him like a like, mythic figure throughout the story.

[David Sims]

Right. Ross is like, sees all and kind of participates, but isn't really, like seeking vengeance like Uatu the watcher. He's kind of like an Uatu the Watcher type.

[Griffin Newman]

I just got to bring this whole movie into my language.

[David Sims]

No, I think that's totally right.

[Dana Schwartz]

I mean, while we're talking about Ross.

[David Sims]

Not the Polanski movie also makes Ross the third murderer. It's a thing that, like, some people do. But. Sorry, carry on.

[Dana Schwartz]

Make the part bigger for a high schooler.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, sure.

[Dana Schwartz]

But what I, this movie kind of implies not to get ahead with ourselves with spoilers, but like spoiling Macbeth, it kind of implies that Ross kills Lady.

[Griffin Newman]

Macbeth a little bit.

[Dana Schwartz]

Did I, did I misinterpret that?

[David Sims]

No, you didn't. So, like Lady Macbeth before she dies. Just to jump ahead to this is. Well, she's feeling crummy, feeling a little blue. And we see her like looking down the stairs, but we also see Ross turning on those lamps and gazing right at her. And it is sort of like you can take away from it. Like, does Ross, like shove her down the stairs or something?

[Dana Schwartz]

It's not just that he's looking at her. He, like, he has like a little sinister sort of like he see, he.

[Griffin Newman]

Truly sees her for who she is.

[Dana Schwartz]

But I, you know, famously, Lady Macbeth commits suicide. It's not on stage, but that's like the, the classic interpretation of, of the play.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I ask? Because I just, I openly struggle to crack Shakespeare and understand how to analyze it. Okay, can the two of you explain what you feel like, like McDormand is getting wrong in this performance? Because I agree that doesn't quite work and I cannot identify why.

[David Sims]

It's a fair question. Lady Macbeth is such a weird character. She's like the greatest character. Right. Like, everyone wants to play Lady Macbeth because it's this opportunity for these incredible monologues. You can play this descent into madness bottled into whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

The power behind the power. The whispering year. Right.

[David Sims]

It's so cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool.

[David Sims]

But also she's a completely one dimensional character in some ways in that she's just like plot motivation. Right? Like, she's just, she's the, the evil woman who spurs everything into action. I mean, please jump in. Don't let me.

[Dana Schwartz]

I like a Lady Macbeth. You have to. I like a Lady Macbeth. That's like, okay, I'm either existing in the, you know, 11th century or like Shakespeare or the, you know.

[David Sims]

Because if it's the 11th century, you're like, this ambition makes sense. Her, she would have no. No avenue for ambition.

[Griffin Newman]

She has to follow it through someone else.

[Dana Schwartz]

And you know, if this is happening in the early 1600s, you're like, how does a woman have power? And what I don't maybe attach to so much in this performance for me is I don't think Frances McDormand has an interesting answer where it feels like a very modern marriage because they're both like in their 60s and they have like a very respectful marriage. She's just like, I don't know, you should do this. Where I think a Lady Macbeth that's informed by either like the 11th or the 17th century. It's like she's using her sexuality in interesting ways. She has to be more subversive. I think maybe because of all the Coen brothers movies or roles that Frances McDormand has played in her career. I read her very much as just like a. A straight shooter, good partner. And yes, she is like telling Macbeth what to do. But she's not like being really wily about. About it.

[David Sims]

I find her very subdued. Yeah. I don't find their chemistry. It's not like it's like non existent because they do have the kind of mutual respect thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Going to be overly comfortable. Yes.

[David Sims]

A movie where. Or a story.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Where she's like, you should murder the king. Low key, stab that guy. That's crazy. You know, like. And. And everything just proceeds a little too sleepily for me.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, especially if Denzel's going to be trying to root his performance in a modern naturalism and he's heavy on the.

[David Sims]

This guy's tired. This gu Guy's old. This guy is sort of like got a ticking clock. So he decides I'll make that decision like as the. My sort of last gas.

[Griffin Newman]

That also perhaps works better if it's like he's literally like the sleepwalker from cabinet of Dr. Caligari carrying out her mission and she is putting a lot more electricity into.

[Dana Schwartz]

And there's something interesting about the. I've only seen the. The filmed version, but like the Patrick Stewart production where it's a much younger woman for an older man, which also has. Has like this interesting thing.

[David Sims]

And Patrick Stewart wouldn't know anything about that.

[Dana Schwartz]

No, no, of course not.

[David Sims]

Not implying his wife is a murderer. She's just like.

[Dana Schwartz]

But there's like that friction to it of like this tired guy trying to like, you know, metaphorically get it up for his younger wife.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Trying his first ever New York slice in quotes.

[David Sims]

Right, Exactly.

[Dana Schwartz]

But there's something.

[David Sims]

Just move to Park Slope or kill the king.

[Griffin Newman]

What's the. What's the quadruple take video? Her muffins are the best.

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm to trying. Remember, it's some double entendre.

[David Sims]

Salt and pepper.

[Griffin Newman]

The greatest. Sorry, D fighters.

[David Sims]

Should we just keep doing Patrick Stewart?

[Griffin Newman]

There's something to like the musical guest one. I didn't have my Romana ready to go.

[Dana Schwartz]

The way that Lady Macbeth and Macbeth are talking, it almost is like, I want to go see my sister for Thanksgiving.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a little low stakes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[David Sims]

I just. And I don't like, I. She's fine with the language or whatever. Like, I don't. It's not like I'm like, she's just reading. Like, I think she's performing, but it's. I'm just. There's times in this movie, like whenever Denzel's raising his voice and popping off a little bit.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I'm sitting up like, absolutely. I'm just like, it's okay, guys to have some, you know, to have some sort of. It's not over the top, but just some like, you know, some more kind of energy for this dude.

[Griffin Newman]

Works better for him. Save for Fitz.

[David Sims]

I think he's got a good, good take.

[Dana Schwartz]

He has a good subdued. And I think that for me, the subdued would have worked better if it was a little more like blood and sex. Lady Macbeth.

[Griffin Newman]

Denzel is also such an established movie star and we know how he can uncork. So when he is playing in a lower register, the performance still has the tension of is Denzel going to explode? And it makes sense. You're saying when he fucking equalizes. Dana, have you equalized yet?

[Dana Schwartz]

I have equal. My husband made sure I equalized. That was one of the movies where he's like, you haven't seen the Equalizer? He made sure I was.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you watched all three?

[Dana Schwartz]

No, I've watched two.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Ben, have you now seen all three? Yeah. Do you know that Ben knocked the Equalizers out on our flights to and from LA recently? David, he has finally equalized.

[David Sims]

Thank God.

[Ben Hosley]

And I got to tell you, it was fun.

[Griffin Newman]

We got to do them on Patreon.

[Ben Hosley]

We really should.

[Griffin Newman]

They will be so much fun today.

[David Sims]

Do them on Patreon. Are you going to equalize?

[Dana Schwartz]

Are you going to tuck the queen Go on.

[Griffin Newman]

What do you mean?

[Dana Schwartz]

Queen Latina Latifah.

[David Sims]

I don't think we can fire up Queen Latifah's the Equalizer television show. No, I don't think there's time for that.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just so funny that that has just existed concurrent to this thing, and they don't have anything to do.

[Dana Schwartz]

They don't acknowledge it.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but the movies are so good. And. Yes, it is. That thing of, like, this is. I mean, Equalizer does feel like the start of him trying to explore who is old man Denzel. Right. Because Denzel aged so well for so long, and he finally. He didn't, like, hit a wall. But we crossed a threshold where it's like, he is an old man now. He is an old man now. And the last 10 years, he's had to, like, lean into it more and more and try to own it. It is interesting that I feel like he goes out of his way to look even older in this film. Like, certainly the gray and the hair and the beard for a guy who tends to die. Right? He's like.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He rarely dies on screen.

[Griffin Newman]

Although he does die in this. We think in this film, he Turner, Macbeth. He doesn't D, Y, E. But he does die.

[David Sims]

Yes. No, he does some tie. Dying as well in this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. It just feels like he was always a very virile star, and he has finally tried to settle into, like, what is my elder statesman mode? You know, when am I supporting. Our buddy Connor Ratliff had a very good take, which is that highest to lowest. Have you seen that?

[Dana Schwartz]

Not yet.

[Griffin Newman]

Feels like the first Denzel performance of him going into his late Pacino era.

[David Sims]

So true.

[Dana Schwartz]

Where he's complimentary or derogatory.

[David Sims]

Complimentary. But, yes, it's got that kind of, like, what, Getting bad.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's the first performance where he's just like, I'm just gonna follow every single instinct I have. What if I have a dialogue scene with a framed picture? What if I start, like, yelling at a can of soup, you know, like.

[Dana Schwartz]

Like.

[Griffin Newman]

And all of it's engaging, and I think it makes sense for the story. But you haven't seen him do something that undisciplined before, which is interesting. Like, even Denzel's, like, weird, oddball rhythms and, like, his, like, explosive, like, moments always feel like that is earned, that is justified. Trained people wouldn't have the courage to do that. But what he's doing makes perfect sense. And highest to lowest is like him doing a fucking jazz for better or for worse.

[Dana Schwartz]

In this movie, there's no crate. He doesn't do anything nuts.

[David Sims]

Not really.

[Dana Schwartz]

I think it's a very contained Macbeth performance.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know if it's a deliberate quote, but these sort of hallucinations, the like fit of violence. The moment with the bird in particular. I really like the way Joel shoots those. And it feels very similar to Cassavetes opening night where Jenna Rowland's character is haunted by this young fan that got hit by a car. Car. And she imagines these fights with her that are her coming backstage. And they're done in like extreme Paul Greengrassy, super up close, shaky, kind of like hand to hand combat that it's like this is going on in her head. And the second you cut out to a wide, everything's fine. He thinks he's sword fighting. It's a bird that broke through a window, you know. And those moments are really exciting to watch because you're like in the middle of the fight. You're watching Denzel like joust at you from like 2 inches away.

[David Sims]

Cause Right. So much of the middle part of Macbeth is just him being paranoid. Yeah. And it can be hard to dramatize.

[Griffin Newman]

He's coming for me. I think he visualizes that very well.

[David Sims]

Joel, is this a dagger he sees before him?

[Griffin Newman]

Is it in the Polanski movie?

[David Sims]

It's just like a little hologram of a dagger.

[Dana Schwartz]

He definitely sees it before him.

[David Sims]

He does see it before him. Yeah. So paranoid starts to get weird. He. He kills Banquo. Doesn't kill Fleance. Fucked up, messed up.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not an equal opportunity murderer.

[David Sims]

You can kind of have the take that this.

[Dana Schwartz]

He tries to kill FL they try to get him.

[David Sims]

Ross is the one who fucks up. And that by casting Ross in that role, you can then kind of signify it as like, this is where Ross's loyalty starts to wane.

[Griffin Newman]

They're on a break now.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a Ross joke. That's like a friend's Ross joke.

[David Sims]

I think that was a really good joke. Did you see that David Schwimmer got a Paul Hollywood handshake on an episode of Bake Off.

[Griffin Newman]

No, that's cool. Yep.

[David Sims]

Yep. He made like a pie with tofu in it. Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

But I'm sure it's kind of like Celebrity Jeopardy where like the line for ceiling is sake as much. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Would you do Bake Off?

[Dana Schwartz]

In a heartbeat.

[David Sims]

Do you bake?

[Dana Schwartz]

I do. I bake a lot.

[David Sims]

Dana's a good baker.

[Dana Schwartz]

I bake a lot.

[Griffin Newman]

What's your specialty.

[David Sims]

But could you make like, a, you know, bake a cake that's also a readable book or whatever they do these days?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, she's also good at writing books.

[David Sims]

Maybe she could do it.

[Dana Schwartz]

I don't. I think I would. I'm good at studying and I'm good at, like, I, like, like a.

[David Sims]

You have to practice all that. But how's your, like, rough puff pastry?

[Dana Schwartz]

I, I, I've made it. It's not great, but if I knew I was going to be on Bake Off, I would really throw myself into what about.

[David Sims]

I'm trying to think all the other they do on that. I don't know. Sugar.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know what? Actually, what I would have trouble with is sometimes they're like, make a blah, blah, blah. And it's some, like, British pastry that I've never heard of.

[David Sims]

It is always good with, like, make the queen's muffin. And you're like, what's that? And they're like, it's actually not a muffin.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a steak.

[David Sims]

You know, like, Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Well done.

[Dana Schwartz]

I met Kim Joy at ComicCon.

[David Sims]

Oh, that's cool. She's fun.

[Dana Schwartz]

She was at Comic Con.

[David Sims]

I love her. And it makes sense that she was at Comic Con. She has that moment where she really starts freaking out and crying. Do you remember this?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And Noel Fielding comes over to her, which, like, this happens on the have. Do you watch Bake Off?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you know, I watch Mighty Boosh, though. It's similar to that.

[Dana Schwartz]

Exact same.

[David Sims]

It is so weird to watch it with, say, my wife, who did not watch the Mighting Boosh and try to explain, like, who Noel Fielding is and why he's here. Right. Like, how could he have ended up here?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Because it always feels like Noel Fielding just, like, walked through a tunnel and was like, oh, like it is in this tent.

[Griffin Newman]

But also part of his magic was that he always had the comedy energy of an old lady.

[David Sims]

Well, that's true.

[Griffin Newman]

There was this glam rocker thing, right. And this, like, party boy Lothario thing. But you're like, there is this, like.

[Dana Schwartz]

Very delicate, like, kind of thing and a kindness.

[Griffin Newman]

He reads as kind, an innocent. Yes.

[David Sims]

And there's this moment where this lady Kim Joy, who is sort of like, how to describe her twee in a sort of nerdy anime.

[Dana Schwartz]

Vibey Bakes.

[David Sims]

She starts, like, freaking out about something, and it's just like, I can't do it. Like, she just has the thing that I would happen to me probably five minutes in where I'm just like, I can't do this. Like, you know, just like staring at sugar and spices in a oven and. And Noel just comes and chills her out so beautifully. And it's like one of those, like, your heart stops moments and Bake off.

[Dana Schwartz]

Anyway, he's.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I'm glad she's doing well.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm glad he's doing well.

[David Sims]

He's doing great.

[Griffin Newman]

The listener, David, is making a gesture as if there is money in between his fingers, and he's rubbing that dollar bill. And it's not a one, I'll tell you that. It's not a $1 bill.

[David Sims]

Him and Allison Hammond are good at their jobs, but their job is mostly just going over to people being like, cooking.

[Dana Schwartz]

This looks good.

[David Sims]

And the guy's like, I'm really stressed out. He's like, all right, I'll see you later.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of the dream.

[David Sims]

It's kind of great.

[Griffin Newman]

You work four weeks a year, you.

[Dana Schwartz]

Get to eat the cakes.

[Griffin Newman]

And then.

[David Sims]

Right. If you want to eat some cake, you can have it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's up for grabs.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like Paul Hollywood, he has one bite.

[Dana Schwartz]

Good moves on those. Cameramen are eating well.

[David Sims]

I think that's what happens. They give it to the crew.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. There's so much left over. It has to be, but it's like.

[David Sims]

They'Re giving the crew, like I said, like a. It's like the entire Bible replicated in cake form.

[Dana Schwartz]

Tom delong's head.

[David Sims]

That was really. Do you know before about that?

[Griffin Newman]

No. They made a cake of Tom DeLong from Blink 182.

[David Sims]

So it was like, make. Was it music especially?

[Dana Schwartz]

No, it was just, I think make a.

[David Sims]

Make your idol.

[Dana Schwartz]

Make sure of any. Your idol.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Your idol. And the person chose Tom DeLonge. Where there's spiders on the cake.

[David Sims]

I'm showing Ben and Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

That's crazy. Unbelievable. I mean, SNL now has that, like, recurring sketch they do.

[David Sims]

He's very funny. But the one that Eddie Murphy did once. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It looks like one of those. Yes. Jesus Christ. If that is.

[David Sims]

If you just laughing about.

[Griffin Newman]

If you love Tom delong so much that he's your first choice answer for Idol. Yeah. That is a disrespect because it was the famous.

[David Sims]

The disaster was the Freddie Mercury.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but look, that at least is stylized.

[David Sims]

It looks like a bath toy.

[Griffin Newman]

That at least it's stylized like a Funko Pop. There's an artistic interpretation along. Seems to be going for realism and missing the mark. Wow.

[Dana Schwartz]

They've gotten bake off used to be very, like, very classic, where like, the challenges were like, make a Victoria sponge cake. And I think they know now, like, I don't know, 20 seasons in. In the Instagram era, they.

[David Sims]

Everyone's watched the show, so now they've all become genius. Yeah. Right. It used to be amateur old lady bakers who were like, I put some turmeric in this cake and they'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Griffin Newman]

I made one tart.

[David Sims]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

No, it would be only amateur bakers, these, like, grandmothers who are like, this is my Bakewell tart recipe. And they'd be like, this is great. Good job. And now it has to be. You have to sculpt. Blink 182.

[David Sims]

That's right. Tom Dong's face. Now 20 minutes.

[Griffin Newman]

There was some Food Network show when my. When my sister Romley was growing up and was watching Food Network. You almost knocked.

[David Sims]

You almost knocked Chucky over. It's fine.

[Griffin Newman]

Checky. He's very robust, but he's safe. Life. When. When my sister Romley was just watching Food Network 24 7, the One Show I liked watching with her, and I forget what it was called, but it was like the Great Cake Challenge or some. And it was just that kind of like, insane sculptural, like multi tier mechanized.

[Dana Schwartz]

80, which are not designed to taste good. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That was the thing. They'd be themed and they'd be like, it's NFL day here. Everyone gets assigned a tier team, and you have to make a cake of that team. And then you're just doing, like, engineering with a cake, which was fascinating. But you're also like, this looks like it would taste like paper.

[Dana Schwartz]

A lot of those, like, real sculptural cakes, they use, like, Rice Krispie treats to shape it out and then cover it in fondant. Like, it's not even cake.

[Griffin Newman]

No, that's the thing, right? They're like, ostensibly edible, but they are not a cake and they're not elements that would taste good together. David.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Holiday season is right around the corner. And speaking of corners, we got this weird corner right here in this office. It's an odd corner.

[David Sims]

It is.

[Griffin Newman]

It's kind of a Tetris shaped corner.

[David Sims]

Yeah. It requires specific measuring, you know, to fit something in there.

[Griffin Newman]

I've never known what to do with it.

[David Sims]

One could call it a nook.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like too small for a couch, too big for just a chair. Oh, what are we going to do? No solution anywhere in sight. What about the fine folks at Wayfair?

[Ben Hosley]

That's right. We were able to go to Wayfair and quickly and easily find a piece of furniture that would fit that corner. It is the simple and stylish five person corner breakfast nook set and has really updated our office space and made it, it look so nice and offered basically more space for the various team members who use the space to have somewhere to work.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's like it's a multi purpose, it's seating, it's a table, it's storage.

[Ben Hosley]

Yep, that's right. Because it's a bench. And then underneath the bench inside there's a compartment for stuff, you know, like toys for example.

[Griffin Newman]

Can maybe go there. I don't think there are any in the office. But this is, this is a genuine, this is a true story of we need to find something for this space. And I went, why don't we check Wayfair? Yep.

[Ben Hosley]

And we were able to search by dimensions, everything. And it just made it again so easy and so quick.

[Griffin Newman]

This, this copy says Wayfair is the place to shop for all things home, but it's obviously also the place to shop for all things podcast office. Everything from sofas to spatulas, Spreadmaster. You name it, they have it. And you can get up to 70% off during Wayfair Black Friday sale. That's very true. And that's a very high number.

[David Sims]

It's a high number and you can get a lot off. And I really want you to know that they make it easy with fast and free shipping, even on the really big stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

The big stuff.

[David Sims]

And you can get help setting something up if you need help with that. They got furniture, sure. But they got appliances, they got rugs, they got wall art.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

They got all kinds of stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Don't miss out on early Black Friday deals. Head to Wayfair.com now to shop Wayfair's Black Friday deals for up to 70% off. That's W F A I R.com Sal ends December 7th. The tragedy of mcf, yeah, is that.

[Griffin Newman]

He never lived long enough to seek cake. Competition shows.

[Dana Schwartz]

He and Lady Macbeth could just like chill out in bed. Watch the Great British.

[Griffin Newman]

They would have retired if the Food Network existed.

[David Sims]

Paul Hollywood, Thane of Cawdor. Paul Hollywood, King of Scotland. And then Paul Hollywood gets a little glint in his blue eyes.

[Griffin Newman]

Bakes a knife cake.

[David Sims]

So he does start seeing ghosts and ranting and raving. And Lady Macbeth starts walking around talking about her hands being covered in blood and such.

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, the witches also warn him again to beware. They Give him sort of double headed thing. They say, Beware McKenzie Duff. And also, don't worry, no man born of woman can kill you. And also, you're going to be fine until Burnham Wood moves to your literal forest marches.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, so he's like, great.

[Dana Schwartz]

I'm immortal as long as I beware this guy. And if you want to make someone not a threat, you murder their entire family.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, right. Easy.

[David Sims]

I remember. So I saw this at the New York Film Festival and I stayed for the Q and A with Denzel because I was actually in interested.

[Griffin Newman]

I usually dash out Denzel, Fran and.

[David Sims]

Joel and a few others. Corey was there. Moses Ingram was there. Who plays Lady McDuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he's a great actor. And Denzel, like more than once shouted her out and clearly was like very happy she had been involved in the production. Was like, you know, he does seem.

[Dana Schwartz]

She's a great scene.

[David Sims]

She's a great scene. Like someone who champions like younger black actors. Right? You know, Absolutely. You know, like, that's something he's good at.

[Griffin Newman]

He's really good at it.

[David Sims]

Throughout his career, he.

[Griffin Newman]

He puts them in prominent roles. He lets them pop. Of course, the black, young black actor, he's champion. The hardest is Austin Butler. He's what he like, he's like Austin Butler's number one mentor because they did Iceman Cometh together. All right.

[David Sims]

And when Austin Butler was not famous.

[Griffin Newman]

When he was just like a Carrie Diaries, like Disney star Vanessa Hudgins. And it was like his first real stab at serious acting. And Denzel, Denzel looks like you get caught stealing. Denzel brags about.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That he always, you know, he's gonna work harder than anyone else. He's got the hardest work ethic. He was talking about with this, that he like get on set every day at 5 o' clock in the morning and just run the soliloquies. He was like, I need to know these like the back of my hand. They need to feel organic. And he was like. I felt competitive with Bruno Delbonnell because he's like me. And I kept trying to beat him to set and he'd get there an hour before me.

[David Sims]

Bruno's showing up with like eight more lights.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

You. And they're like running to the door together.

[Griffin Newman]

But I'm all bicep curls at the light half an hour earlier. And there's this story that Austin Butler kept doing the same thing. And Denzel was like, you're never gonna beat me. Try to show up early. I'm gonna show up earlier. And then one day, Butler beat him to the theater in the morning. And he was like, okay, kid, tell me what your deal is. Like, I'm now ready to take you under my wing. And Denzel is then the one who, like, really brought Austin Butler around. Around town, right? And was like, this guy's a serious actor. He must be.

[David Sims]

Do you know how early he wakes up his alarms? You would be 4 10, 4 11, 4 12. 4. They keep going off. I've checked.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it was part of it, though, that, like, when he was up for Elvis, Denzel called Boz and was like, you don't understand how hard this kid's gonna work.

[David Sims]

Denzel called. It's like, I'm just trying to imagine, like, that relationship, right? I guess everyone wants to be friends with Denzel.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I don't mean this to deflate it. You are right that Denzel has been at, like, supporting young black actors, like, finding them, identifying, giving them roles. It's just funny that Austin Butler's like his number one guy, who is famously.

[Dana Schwartz]

I repeat, what he is.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait a second, Tina, you're telling me he's.

[David Sims]

I've only heard recordings. No, man. Frost Snowman.

[Griffin Newman]

This Snowman and this Showman. We got a dub.

[David Sims]

We gotta do both. Let's fucking do it. Is he working on something? Yes, he's got a project coming.

[Griffin Newman]

A Joan of Arc. They just announced a Joan of Arc.

[Dana Schwartz]

Move that coy.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is.

[Dana Schwartz]

I will.

[David Sims]

That is always a bad idea.

[Griffin Newman]

Be normal. He discovered some, like, unknown 15 year old.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, I saw Buzz Lurman. I was at the Harry Styles concert a few years ago, and I was like, in the section and he was there and he was having a great time.

[Griffin Newman]

I've told this story before, but I saw him at Forbidden Planet. There was like a torrential downpour outside, and it felt like he just looked for the closest store to, like, get out of the rain. And he was. Was examining the shelves of Forbidden Planet, famous New York comic book store, as if he were on an alien planet, like, tilting his head at everything. And then the only purchase he made was a Wonder Woman umbrella. Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

He needed to get out of the ring.

[Griffin Newman]

And I was at first just like, that's a distinct looking man with specific energy. And then I was like, that's Bosley.

[Ben Hosley]

We could do Romeo and Juliet if we did Bosler.

[David Sims]

One of my favorite.

[Griffin Newman]

Excuse me.

[Dana Schwartz]

Love that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Romeo plus Juliet. Sorry, that's just me being an.

[David Sims]

Being an. You're in the right.

[Griffin Newman]

You're in the right.

[David Sims]

Apologize.

[Ben Hosley]

How do you say Moulin Rouge.

[David Sims]

Moulin Rouge.

[Griffin Newman]

You gotta say it that way every time. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Do you like B. L? I love B. I know you do.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Of course I do.

[Griffin Newman]

What's his witchiest movie? What would he have you on for if we did?

[Dana Schwartz]

There's a. There's a fairy in. In Mulan Ruin.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. The green fairy. Yeah.

[David Sims]

She actually represents absinthe.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

I kind of think actually the most noble bloody would be the. The Joan of Arc. I mean, we'll see. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And. And she was burned at the stake.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

Pretty witchy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

She was sort of. Right. Which witch Adjacent in some talking to God.

[Griffin Newman]

Trading a witch.

[David Sims]

Right. Yeah. What are some other big witch movies we could do with you, though?

[Griffin Newman]

This is a really. Outside of Baz Luhrmann, your beloved Practical Magic.

[David Sims]

Love that movie.

[Dana Schwartz]

I love that movie. Gotta be a secret sequel.

[Griffin Newman]

Gonna be a sequel. It's Raps Suzanne Beer.

[David Sims]

Pop culture is so normal right now.

[Griffin Newman]

It's in the can. It's done.

[Dana Schwartz]

You've already done Witches of Eastwick.

[Griffin Newman]

We have.

[David Sims]

We did do that one.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Big witch movies.

[David Sims]

Hocus Pocus. Of course, the witch.

[Griffin Newman]

Huh?

[David Sims]

The craft.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. We've already had you do an Oz.

[David Sims]

We did have. We did. Of course. Robert Zemeckis's the Witches. A very well remembered film.

[Griffin Newman]

One of the most remembered movies. We're John McHu is. It's inevitable.

[David Sims]

Player Witch Project.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Do that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

Never seen that movie, actually.

[Griffin Newman]

Are there any other witch comedies?

[David Sims]

Well, I Married a witch.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a great movie. Which basically say that about the love witch.

[David Sims]

But witches are cool now bad.

[Griffin Newman]

Witches are cool now bad.

[David Sims]

I mean, hey, it would be funny if I like, went back to calling like, women witches. Like I'm some medieval guy like you witch. Like, like open a mob Willow come.

[Griffin Newman]

Into the studio exhausted, and you're like, sorry, my witchy daughter kept me up all night.

[David Sims]

That would be cool if my daughter, like, went into, like, witch mode, right? She's not really. I mean, she doesn't mind witches.

[Dana Schwartz]

What's she gonna be for Halloween this year?

[Griffin Newman]

She wants to be an elephant.

[Dana Schwartz]

Question.

[David Sims]

She wants to be an elephant Ellie.

[Griffin Newman]

Or just generic elephant.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know what? I saw a lot of it. Comic Con that I think is going to be the Halloween costume is all the K pop demon hunters.

[David Sims]

I have heard this is brewing, that a lot of parents are making panicked Amazon order.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just feel like under 20k pop demon hunters. Over 21 battle after another.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, it's the new dude costume.

[David Sims]

It's really hard to like put together that Leo in one battle. Oh oh. I have to find a flannel shirt and some sunglasses.

[Dana Schwartz]

A robe. You get to be so comfy.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just going to be so funny when these film bros show up at parties and there are 10 other LEOs already there. They're the 10th BOB to arrive.

[David Sims]

You got to be pen. You got to just tuck a black shirt in two tight to like some camo pants. Right. And just walk like Vince McMahon. Like that's what you got to do.

[Dana Schwartz]

Are you. Do you have a guy bonding costume to elephant?

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Dana Schwartz]

What are you dressing the baby clothes?

[David Sims]

Bert, Ernie.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's cute.

[Griffin Newman]

Good, good, good, good.

[David Sims]

Cuz they love a Bert and Ernie book that they have like a board book about them and they've got kind of Bert Ernie energy a little bit costume.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And we already have like a rubber ducky and a toy pigeon. We can.

[Griffin Newman]

Are you going to dress your son up or is he a little too young?

[Dana Schwartz]

We have.

[David Sims]

You got to dress that baby. I'm sorry for you on that guy.

[Dana Schwartz]

I do have a little, I have a little pumpkin costume. Stay tuned on the gr.

[David Sims]

That is pumpkin costume is just classic for a non walking baby. He's.

[Dana Schwartz]

I don't know if you've seen my baby. He's a big. He's like a pumpkin boy.

[David Sims]

He's given cheek.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's.

[Griffin Newman]

He's given cheek.

[David Sims]

He's given cheek.

[Griffin Newman]

I got to say this baby in a pumpkin of kind costume, always funny.

[David Sims]

That's what we're going to miss.

[Griffin Newman]

It's never not hitting.

[Dana Schwartz]

We live on the east side of LA and I was like, I don't want to do like some like hipster showing off like that. We know some cool thing that will dress her. I'm like I want to put this baby in a little pumpkin.

[Griffin Newman]

Is anyone going to be unhappy to see this cherub faced baby in a pumpkin suit?

[Dana Schwartz]

I hope not.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Everyone's going to love it. Yeah. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Ah. So MC does kill the entire MacDuff family except for McDuff himself who runs away and he goes to England. He raises an army with Malcolm. They cut down tree branches, they march on Dunsinane where Macbeth is holed up and they, you know, fulfill the prophecies and they do eventually kill Macbeth. But I do think this movie implies like you say that Lady Macbeth maybe doesn't kill herself, maybe is killed by Ross who maybe has switched sides. I think the amount of attention they put on Ross cross right. Is suggesting that, that he's like some Sort of like, you know, fair weather friend.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's like the moral, the moral center of the movie in that scene where he's like, I'm gonna right. Right the wrongs. I'm gonna balance the scales.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe I'm just a big fat dummy. Well, I am a big fat dummy.

[David Sims]

But I was actually quite trim.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm rapidly expanding. Okay. I'm not getting skinnier.

[David Sims]

Well, none of us are.

[Griffin Newman]

You know how like, old people are always like, back then when I. I was. When I was thin and beautiful.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

You're like, why is everyone focus on the fact that like, you were thin back then? And you're like, oh. Because like, everyone just bloats. Even if you don't get big y. You look at yourself when you had like zero body fat and you're like, holy. I. I was like. My interpretation was, does she kill herself because she's like, seen by him that the look is less the intent to murder her and that he's like, I got your.

[Dana Schwartz]

I mean, that's the more like classical inter. I think that that's like the more Shakespearean.

[David Sims]

It can no longer be perceived.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

Jefferson Mays as the doctor can only do so much.

[David Sims]

Jefferson Mays bringing the heat. It is fun to do like a Coen Brothers Shakespeare movie and be like, can we get Tony winners to play literal, like one line characters? Basically.

[Dana Schwartz]

Multiple years has done a. In Los Angeles, has done a one man show of Christmas Carol. That is one of the most extraordinary shows I've ever seen. I saw it one year, I saw it was coming back. I'm like, I'm seeing it again. Jefferson May's playing every character. He's so good.

[David Sims]

Jim Carrey did it first and best, of course. So let's.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, he only played half the characters. Carrie Elwis played the others.

[Ben Hosley]

This is coming out November 23rd, so I'll make sure to include a link to the show in the show notes.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oh, is he doing it again?

[Griffin Newman]

Let's see.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm assuming, but I'll double check.

[David Sims]

He's also course in the Daddy's boy part of Unbreakable. Kimmy Schmidt, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Which is one of my. One of my favorite gags ever, which is that it just cuts off and then you cut to. What is it? The TCM guy. Yeah, Robert Os, Right. Going like. And that's when the movie ends because the crew stopped filming it because it was so awful. And then he's like, anyway, next. Daddy's Boy again. What's going on? It's such a Good double joke.

[Griffin Newman]

He. That show had jokes. Yeah. He's also great in Inherent Vice.

[David Sims]

Yes. Yes, he is. That's right. I saw him in. On the stage in the play about the Oslo Accords, which was unbelievably called Oslo.

[Dana Schwartz]

That sounds like a laugh riot.

[David Sims]

No, it wasn't. And it's so much yelling. Everyone was just like, we have to. And at a certain point, I started laughing because they wouldn't stop yelling in this, like, acclaimed play.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Anyway, in Christmas Charl, does he play, like, the biggest goose and everything? Like, does it. Does it extend roles?

[David Sims]

It's snowing.

[Griffin Newman]

He points at the gravestone, then he becomes the gravestone.

[David Sims]

That sounds like he'd be, like, out of breath. He's, like, running around. He's like, that's what I want. Right? You want him panting if he's not.

[Griffin Newman]

Collapsing on stage by the end.

[David Sims]

He.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not.

[David Sims]

He's. He's Tiny Tim and the crutch. And I'm holding this. Like, he just goes crutch mode.

[Griffin Newman]

Great.

[David Sims]

Yeah. So McDuff kills and he says, you.

[Dana Schwartz]

Can'T kill me, because no man, you know, born of woman. And McDuff goes, C section bitch.

[David Sims]

He does say C section bitch, which was a Joel cone addition to the plot.

[Griffin Newman]

You can't kill me. Kind of the worst final words you can have.

[David Sims]

It's the. The Twitter meme. What are you going to do, stab me? Is quote from Stabbing victim.

[Griffin Newman]

I just simply would never say it out loud because it's not worth the risk.

[David Sims]

I definitely wouldn't say it to anyone. I was dueling with a sword.

[Dana Schwartz]

I. I just.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not going to say it to anybody, I guess, so.

[David Sims]

I don't want it inviting some tragic irony. Right. No matter what.

[Dana Schwartz]

Even walk down, like, the New York City street and be like, a piano is never going to fall.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

I'm not scared of air conditioners leaving their windows.

[Ben Hosley]

So. Okay. Yeah, he's doing it.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I was looking it up. Where's he doing it? At the Berkeley Rep, if anyone has.

[Dana Schwartz]

The opportunity to see it. Highly, highly Recommend.

[Ben Hosley]

It plays December 16th through the 21st.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's a seasonal treat. It's the.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, it also. Wait, no, maybe this was a past year. It looks like he did do it at the Old Globe at some point.

[Dana Schwartz]

Anyway, it's a great production. You should run it back forever.

[David Sims]

He should do it in the summer. It.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Who gives a.

[Griffin Newman]

Or he should do, like, Scrooge Goes Hawaiian. He should, like, write a new. A sequel what happened to Scrooge after he got his head screwed on straight?

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, that. It's just Scrooge being chill.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He's like turkey.

[Griffin Newman]

Mr. Scrooge's holiday.

[David Sims]

Hey, Scrooge, I need some money. Within reason, I can give you some. I'm a money lender.

[Griffin Newman]

Summer Scrooge.

[David Sims]

Reason I can give you all my money, but I'm not going to be an about it like I used to be.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm fair but professional.

[David Sims]

Tiny Tim's dad, Bob Cratchet. That's his name, comes. He's like, can I take some vacation? He's like, yeah, within reason. Two to three weeks. I don't know. And then more with experience that just screw. Just being fairly reasonable.

[Dana Schwartz]

Fairly reasonable.

[Griffin Newman]

Fairly reasonable.

[Dana Schwartz]

This.

[Griffin Newman]

This.

[Dana Schwartz]

This movie does do some sort of interesting stuff with the crown. You know, it's a very metaphorical flying through the air crown. He. He kind of dies because he was reaching for it a little on the nose. But I liked it.

[David Sims]

It's a good death, though. I do like the, you know, the.

[Griffin Newman]

The full beheading.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But also the duel to see the.

[Dana Schwartz]

Head, which is fun.

[Griffin Newman]

The duel is really good. Like, the choreography is, like, scary and intense.

[David Sims]

Yes, it is. No, all the action at the end is well done. I would say Denzel, obviously very capable of such things.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. It is a movie where I just watch it and I'm like, this feels so close to greatness.

[David Sims]

There's something. There's an exercise quality to it that I cannot shake.

[Griffin Newman]

That's.

[David Sims]

I liked it more in the theater because it's. It is quite overwhelming visually. At home, I was tired. I am a parent of three.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And I was squeezing this in between, you know, whatever my parental duties are. But I was having a little bit of an amidst.

[Griffin Newman]

I was doing the reverse Ben Hosley watching this after House of Dynamite. And I did feel like, man, this was a lot, like, easier to get into in a giant room.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

You can imagine a high school teacher showing this to their students.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yes. Yes. And, you know, I was certainly a kid where anytime they rolled out the old AV cart and said, like, the next three classes are going to be a movie movie, I'm, like, pumping my fist. But sometimes those movies better than regular class. But you're like, this one's a little bit of a snooze. Watching this on, like, a small school tv split up across days would be kind of deadly. You're not, like, this one's awesome, right? Yeah.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I think you're right. It feels like an exercise. It's what makes the, the, the upcoming film very fascinating to see because I feel like there isn't really a sense of who Joel is as a solo filmmaker.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, he didn't write the script.

[Griffin Newman]

He didn't.

[Dana Schwartz]

The script. Famously already written for that.

[Griffin Newman]

It's based on a play.

[David Sims]

Oh, this one is. But the, the new film. One assumes he wrote that.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, but that, that's what I'm saying. This one doesn't show who he is as a solo writer.

[David Sims]

It would be funny if the new one was like L. Gan and Babalu Mandel or whatever. He was like, nah, it's just a good script. I dug it up.

[Griffin Newman]

But it is like you go onto the IMDb, it's the four actors, you name it. Directed by Joel Cohen. Like no other credits. There's not even a screenplay credit. There's no one knows if it's based on anything. Bruno's shooting it again. I don't know. It's like a total mystery right now.

[David Sims]

Totally.

[Griffin Newman]

But most of his usual collaborators. Yeah.

[David Sims]

The film was warmly received.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But you know, not obviously best of the year type material. I feel.

[Griffin Newman]

It is also funny that in the year 2021 it felt like, like, oh, Apple's getting serious. They've signed this a 24 deal and one of the films is going to be Denzel and McDorman doing McBe.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, this is a heavy hitter Oscar player and the movie kind of gets like a polite nod while Apple wins best picture for coda. This is the coda here.

[Dana Schwartz]

This is the coda here.

[David Sims]

Look, it's just an the coda thing. Obviously. It's partly that it movies goes down smooth and like generally crowd pleasing. But when you look at that Oscar year, it's just a lot of like studios shooting their shot in a way where you're like, oh, good try. But like Netflix being like, can we sneak Power of the Dog by you a little bit? And eventually voters are like, I think too weird. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And like, could Licorice Pizza be the PTA movie? Yeah. It's like that's his least accessible movie. And then, you know, Dune doesn't have an ending. Drive My Car was nominated for best picture, but is a three hour movie about rehearsing Uncle Vanya. Yes, by and large.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And then like Spielberg was like, I made Westside Story. Do you like it? Everyone was like, yeah, we love it. Like zero Oscars.

[Dana Schwartz]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, excuse me.

[David Sims]

Yes, but like that, it's funny that Spielberg Was like, I. I have something. I made a big treasure chest filled with jewels. Everyone's like, yeah. And then they walk over to the like glass of orange juice that is coda. Also the. Where it's just like, it's fine, easy.

[Griffin Newman]

The fact that he had shot it in 2019 and you were like, this is a pre pandemic movie. It's Spielberg with like full control making, remaking.

[David Sims]

It doesn't have any. Yeah, the co. Covid stuff, because it was just delayed.

[Griffin Newman]

They're like, this thing has just been locked away for two years because he wanted to wait until audiences could come come back.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And everyone was just like, yeah, good job. Good.

[David Sims]

We. We liked it. Yeah, Koda. Anyway, just a funny situation.

[Dana Schwartz]

She sings at the end. We get to hear a song.

[David Sims]

She does.

[Griffin Newman]

She sings.

[Dana Schwartz]

Because west side Story, they don't.

[Griffin Newman]

No, they don't. There wasn't enough singing for them.

[David Sims]

Maybe they all watched it on mute by mistake.

[Griffin Newman]

That's why they thought it was good.

[David Sims]

They were like, this movie's weird. No one talks. We're going to do the box Office game for January 28, 2022, which is when this film is released in IMAX.

[Griffin Newman]

A24 took advantage of a. A weird theatrical landscape.

[David Sims]

Well, quite a weird one. We'll see here.

[Griffin Newman]

As things were rebounding and they kept getting. Do you remember also that they did like one week of Nomadland and IMAX in IMAX. Yes. In early 21.

[David Sims]

I mean, look, man, a lot of.

[Griffin Newman]

These art house movies were getting like 10 day IMAX runs because they were like, we don't got anything else.

[Dana Schwartz]

I would be interested in how this aspect ratio ratio worked in imax.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Because this is a very boxy academy ratio movie. It's actually pretty well suited for imax. Yeah. What are you laughing at?

[David Sims]

Ben sent a link. This is very interesting. So he sent a link about House Hosley, I suppose, or, you know, whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

The preview text I got is. Check out the early notables of the Hosley.

[David Sims]

So if I can handle this, Griffin, because I want to. Want to. Your genuine reaction to this. So apparently this surname, Hosley, first found in Oxfordshire in 1190.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

You know, been registered in the roles, various roles ever since. Right. Early notables of the Hosley family include William Ostler, which is like a variation spelling, died 1614. An actor in English Renaissance theater, a member of the King's Men, the company of William Shakespeare. So there you go. Doesn't say who he played, though. But he was one of the King's Men. Men.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, that's cool.

[Ben Hosley]

So it's in my blood. But I'm also kind of like me.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. The actual weekend this movie goes into limited release, as we says, the Matrix Resurrections weekend.

[David Sims]

I mean again, when we're saying went into theaters, I assume it was just a couple screens.

[Griffin Newman]

That Christmas release, it was playing at this beacon place in mid January it made less than half a million.

[David Sims]

I mean it has a non reported GROSS because they four walled it. So I don't know like number one on January 28th though. Griffin. It's been out for seven weeks. It's made $735 million.

[Griffin Newman]

Spider Man. No Way Home.

[David Sims]

That's the one with all the spider men.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. It is weird that like 2021 the theaters reopened, things are rough, things are weird. And people were like, maybe they'll just never go back to the theater again. And at the height of a surge like Omicron starts surging like a week before. And they were like, is this going to fuck up Spider Man?

[David Sims]

Nope.

[Griffin Newman]

Becomes one of the highest grossing film. And basically there's another six months before something else hits them.

[Dana Schwartz]

All of the spider men are in it.

[Griffin Newman]

All of them are in it. And that's been done.

[David Sims]

Andrew Garfield.

[Griffin Newman]

Tom Holland.

[David Sims]

Tom Holland. Willem. The Spider Man. No way home.

[Dana Schwartz]

Dahan. They got Dane Dahan in it.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, Dane, he is not the Great Dane did not arrive in fact.

[David Sims]

Right. Are there the lizards in it?

[Griffin Newman]

And Electro and Electro. But Electro's got the new new.

[David Sims]

Oh yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Electronic Electro's like forget everything I used to be.

[David Sims]

I don't have the whole blue blobby.

[Griffin Newman]

What if we just reset? I'm not a living Jamie Foxx playing Electro.

[David Sims]

A bad movie in my opinion, but undeniably enjoyable.

[Griffin Newman]

That is how I feel about it. It is one of the sweatiest screenplays of all time. It is constructed out of nonsense. It does have juice in it.

[Dana Schwartz]

It has it's real chemistry between the two of them.

[Griffin Newman]

This was your whole take at the time, which I really agree with. Which is like the movie is actually an art argument for movie stars.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That the last act of that movie works. Because you're like here are three different guys in three different eras who had such unique takes on the characters that watching the three of them talk to each other is more exciting than like any CGI fight.

[David Sims]

I completely agree. Those are the. I mean especially I feel like it was the Andrew Garfield moment. And obviously he was in Tick Tick boom, he gets the Oscar nomination. Like it was. Garfield was having a Nice back and.

[Griffin Newman]

Got all the character actors in it.

[David Sims]

It's like, yes. Number two at the box office is a horror film. It's been out for three weeks. It's a solid hit. It is the fifth in a franchise.

[Griffin Newman]

So January 2022, fifth in a franchise. It's a solid five. It's a five.

[David Sims]

But the five is not in the title.

[Griffin Newman]

The five is not in the title. When does the franchise start?

[David Sims]

Start 1996.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a 96. Oh, so it's Scream.

[David Sims]

It's Scream.

[Griffin Newman]

It drives me crazy.

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, the five is in the title, but it's a.

[David Sims]

It's a V only in the poster, which I hate.

[Griffin Newman]

I hate it is. One of my least favorite modern trends is horror reboot that has the exact same name as the original and has to be referred to with the year.

[David Sims]

Guys, I always tell you, you've never seen the film Scream, but that is literally addressed in the movie, which makes sense because it's Scream.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm hoping the new scary movie does the joke of calling itself scary movie. Brackets 2026.

[David Sims]

They should do that, right?

[Griffin Newman]

That is funny.

[David Sims]

Brackets 2026. Brackets 2026.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number three at the box office is an animated film. I have not yet watched these with my daughter because I know she will love them and I don't want to deal with it.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. It's a franchise.

[David Sims]

It's the second. Second.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the second of two. It's the second of two dot it's not. It's not. No. Cruz was a 2020. It's the second of two. But you think they're gonna make more?

[David Sims]

I mean, these movies do well. I don't know. I don't think so. They've probably done. This one did less. Well, the first one did very well.

[Griffin Newman]

And is it a whole. Oh, it's Sing two.

[David Sims]

Sing two.

[Griffin Newman]

It actually made a good amount of money. The first one was huge.

[David Sims]

First one was a huge hit. The second one, in Covid time, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Sort of society opening back up times made 162 domestic, which is good.

[Griffin Newman]

But the first one made like 300 domestic.

[David Sims]

And it's also like how many like.

[Dana Schwartz]

It'S just animal singing pop songs, I.

[Griffin Newman]

Believe Animal, American Idol. But it's also like, let's put on a show. We need to make a town competition to sell tickets to not lose the theater. I saw the second one and not the first one. I'm perplexed by those movies. It's Garth Jennings, who's good.

[David Sims]

It was once. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know, they're not like poorly made, but I. I just do not get them.

[David Sims]

Number four at the box office is you're never going to get this. Or maybe you will. It's a Christian movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I like a challenge. Okay. It's a Christian movie.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

Is Greg Kinnear in it?

[David Sims]

He's not. Although he should be.

[Griffin Newman]

Good follow up question.

[David Sims]

It looks like it's based on a historical romance novel from the 90s set during the 1850s. Gold Rush.

[Griffin Newman]

Jesus. Okay.

[David Sims]

Uh, it's got one of those posters where a man and a woman are doing like a forehead kiss and there's a big bright sun behind all of them. I know.

[Griffin Newman]

Is there. Are there any name actors in this?

[David Sims]

Yes. But like, not huge.

[Griffin Newman]

Can you give them to me though?

[David Sims]

Abigail Cohen, Tom Lewis, Logan Marshall Green, Nina Dobrev, Pamka Jansen, and Eric Dane, who of course has recently sort of, you know, semi retired or whatever because he's suffering from als. It's one of his last films. Maybe.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm going to guess that this movie is called God is Gold.

[David Sims]

The film was directed by DJ Caruso.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh.

[David Sims]

Which is crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

He's basically pivoted to that space.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Faith based.

[David Sims]

And it's called Redeeming Love.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Would never get that.

[David Sims]

How could you?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number five at the box office, of course, is a prequel sequel to a couple action movies. It's a pretty cursed movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a pretty cursed movie. It's a prequel to a couple action movies.

[David Sims]

A prequel to two action films.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not like Transporter, but it's. Is it something in that kind of bent?

[David Sims]

Is it that it's got a British bent to it? For sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it that level of franchise, though? Oh, it's the King's Man. There you go.

[Dana Schwartz]

Go.

[Griffin Newman]

A film that ends. Do you know this, Dana? Yeah. With introducing Hitler like he's Thanos.

[David Sims]

This is true.

[Griffin Newman]

And I love that Matthew. I've never seen it like. Of course we're going to make the sequel.

[David Sims]

Yeah, we're working on it.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone's demanding. In fact, it might be a Hulu series.

[David Sims]

It might be an Argyl as well, somehow.

[Dana Schwartz]

You've also got Argyle's sort of in the Kingsman universe.

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of.

[David Sims]

As we have discussed, but only vaguely.

[Griffin Newman]

People made a really funny Reddit thread.

[David Sims]

Complaining about I can't believe they spoiled Argyle.

[Griffin Newman]

Spoiling Argyle. Everyone was in on the bit of. I was truly about to watch it tomorrow. But the funniest thing is we did not talk about the central twist of Our guy. We just talked about the two inexplicable mid credits and the main twist is.

[Dana Schwartz]

That it's based on a book written by Taylor Swift.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. That's the main twist.

[David Sims]

Just to further illustrate what a weird time this was for the American box.

[Griffin Newman]

Office Matrix Resurrections is like out of theaters, right?

[David Sims]

Number 16.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number six is the three. Five. Five. Remember that one?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Where a bunch of witches women were spies.

[Griffin Newman]

That was the ultimate. This can't miss. They cast five of the biggest actresses from different countries. Everyone will go see this.

[David Sims]

Number seven is American Underdog, the Kurt Warner story in which Zachary Levi plays the quarterback and religious figure. Kurt Warner.

[Dana Schwartz]

Normal guy.

[David Sims]

Yep, normal guy. Number eight, Ghostbusters afterlife.

[Griffin Newman]

Still in there?

[David Sims]

Yeah. After 11 weeks. This is what I'm saying.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of. Because Resurrections is like Week 4 West.

[David Sims]

Resurrections was on HBO Max Day.

[Griffin Newman]

I know, I'm just. I'm surprised. Ghostbusters is hanging in there. But you're right, the answer is that like one new movie got released every three weeks.

[David Sims]

Number nine, licorice. Licorice pizza. Number 10, west side Story. So two somewhat underwhelming but good best picture nominees.

[Griffin Newman]

What's Afterlife up to at this point point?

[David Sims]

Afterlife has made 128 on its way to a robust domestic total of 129.

[Griffin Newman]

It's all of them end up at the same number. It is incredible how outside of the original Ghostbusters not adjusted for inflation.

[David Sims]

I have to pee. So bad.

[Griffin Newman]

Ghostbusters 2 answer the call. As staged at the Globe, Afterlife and Frozen Empire all basically end up at an identical number.

[Dana Schwartz]

130.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, and it's. There's always this asterisk of like Ghostbusters 2 was a genuine like disappointment, right? Like huge drop off from the original at the time. And then answer the call. They were like, well the backlash. Ghostbusters is still valuable as a franchise, but the backlash killed it. And then Afterlife comes out like in like shitty 2021 and they're like, it was a hit and in normal times it would have done better. And then they released Frozen Empire in a totally normal time and it ends up at the exact same number.

[Dana Schwartz]

I just don't think like Gen and correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't seem like Gen Z is like attached to Ghostbusters as a piece of ip.

[Griffin Newman]

My little cousin really likes Ghostbusters, but I'm like, is that like speak more to him just being an obsessive kid who's really thorough with stuff. Sims always puts it David Sims, who's the guy who posts this podcast in the bathroom right now, he always puts it like it is ultimately like a good concept with a great logo.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. And a good song.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. That like the song and the logo always are basically going to get you to 130 to domestic. And they keep trying to crack like what is the way to make it super relevant to kids today? And they like, they can't do it.

[Dana Schwartz]

Stranger things, kids. Isn't that the way to do it?

[Griffin Newman]

I've tried that.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, you name a character podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

You name a character podcast.

[Dana Schwartz]

I will say I like. I think one of Ghostbusters enduring cultural legacies is now that this will be post when this podcast comes out. But currently when we're recording it, it's almost Halloween season, spooky season. And I feel like on every like pre made playlist for like Halloween songs, the Ghostbusters song is ending. And it's like it's actually not a Halloween movie.

[Griffin Newman]

But it rules. The song rules. It's like maybe the best song of all time. This is the thing, like Ghostbusters will never be valueless because the song will never stop playing. Yeah. And the logo will never stop existing.

[David Sims]

It's cool.

[Griffin Newman]

And then like one step down from that, like slimer and stay puff, like basically should be on the back of money. Are like as important to American culture as most of our presidents. And then beyond that, you're like, what is this?

[Dana Schwartz]

Did you ever watch like the Casper movies, Dana?

[Griffin Newman]

I talk about them all the time.

[Ben Hosley]

I love venturing into.

[Griffin Newman]

Dana David. Dana just asked Griffin, did you ever watch the Casper movies? So buckle up. There's an hour left in this episode.

[David Sims]

Was one of those put in theaters this week or something? I saw it on a box office list.

[Griffin Newman]

They're rereleasing for Halloween. The 30th anniversary.

[David Sims]

The original.

[Griffin Newman]

The boy. The only theatrical.

[Dana Schwartz]

The Christina Richie.

[Griffin Newman]

The Brad Silberland. The Sexual Awakening movie. That movie fucked. I love that movie so much. And then I. I remember I saw.

[David Sims]

It in theaters and I remember not even liking it at the time. I'd be interested to revisit.

[Griffin Newman]

Your brain was not developed.

[Dana Schwartz]

Were you a young preteen girl?

[David Sims]

No, I was 10. I think I was possibly too old for like true kid antics shit or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not true kid antics shit.

[David Sims]

I mean dark.

[Griffin Newman]

The movie's dark.

[David Sims]

I do remember it being a little dark because right there's death.

[Griffin Newman]

It's right, it's like about death and.

[David Sims]

Bill Pullman dies and then they resurrect him.

[Griffin Newman]

Casper's dad spent his entire life trying to build a machine to bring ghosts back to life. And they revive the machine, but only have enough ghost juice to bring one ghost back to life. And Casper's cousins murder Bill Pullman. And he makes the sacrifice of letting Bill Pullman have the ghost juice rather than himself. He was going to use it for himself because he's in love with Cat, played by Christina Rich. Preachy, but she would never date a ghost. And because of his selfless act, her dead mother, who's now an angel, grants Casper one witch, which is Cinderella, rules. He's allowed to be a human boy.

[David Sims]

For a day for like an hour.

[Griffin Newman]

So he shows up looking like Devin saw one. She loves him and he says, can I keep you? He whispers it into her ear and they're dancing and floating above the crowd. And Oscar should have been thrown at the screen.

[David Sims]

Take a hike, English Patient or whatever.

[Dana Schwartz]

Casper Meets Wendy. Yes, vhs.

[Griffin Newman]

I think a listener is perhaps because Shelley Duvall is in that movie. And a blank check listener went to the Shelley Duvall estate sale and I believe purchased for us Shelley Duvall's copy of Casper Meets Wendy with a certificate of authenticity that's showing up at the P.O. box soon.

[Dana Schwartz]

Ben, that's a really nice listener.

[Griffin Newman]

Casper. A Spirited Beginning is one of the joke titles I will throw out if I can't get something in Box Office Games. So it gets set up, which is.

[David Sims]

A film that was not released. Released in theaters.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's a straight to DVD movie with Polly Shore and James Earl Jones as the voice of ghost.

[David Sims]

Gutenberg's there.

[Griffin Newman]

Gutenberg's there.

[Dana Schwartz]

One of them plays the stinky ghost.

[Griffin Newman]

They're different ghosts. They're new ghost. Because it's a prequel. I think the. The ghost can live for the uncles are still in it. The ghostly Dana. The ghostly T.R. still in it. James Earl Jones is like some evil genie ghost.

[David Sims]

He's called Kai Bos. Really not joking.

[Griffin Newman]

And Pauly Char, I'm looking up here, plays his weasely sidekick.

[David Sims]

Wait, what? His character is called Snivel.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's a fun name for a Weasley sidekick.

[David Sims]

It looks like Casper Van Dien is also in it. And I imagine he was cast as a joke probably because he plays a character called Bystander. So do you think they were like, there's an actual actor called Casper? Do you want to be in the new Casper?

[Griffin Newman]

It must be like the Bort joke where someone says Casper. And he turns around and says, I.

[David Sims]

Was like, what, me?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

How's Cassor Vandian doing now?

[Dana Schwartz]

Isn't his.

[Griffin Newman]

He was married to like royalty and his daughter is like a big influencer who also is in line for race.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But I want to say he married like a princess. They're divorced.

[David Sims]

He married the daughter of the princess of Yugoslavia, which is a country that doesn't exist anymore. So I don't know how much.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Yugoslavia has abolished its monarchy, but I guess some sort of courtly homes maybe in their life or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Good stuff, good stuff. Dana, you have.

[David Sims]

They're divorced.

[Griffin Newman]

Thousand things to plug, Dana.

[David Sims]

Plug.

[Dana Schwartz]

Listen to my podcast Noble Blood, which is about history. New podcast, Hoax, which is about historical hoaxes.

[David Sims]

With Lizzie Logan.

[Dana Schwartz]

With my friend Lizzie Logan. If you like sort of like gothic YA novels about grave robbers and surgery, read Anatomy a Love Story Story.

[Griffin Newman]

Available now in paperback.

[Dana Schwartz]

Available now in paperback. And if you want to pre order a book about, you know, sexy magic and a professor and grad student going on, you know, a sexy little adventure.

[Griffin Newman]

David's eyes bugging out.

[David Sims]

I've read it.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's read some. Yeah. Pre order the Arcane Arts.

[Griffin Newman]

Hell yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

Which I wrote with a friend under a pseudonym. So if you see that it's not by Dana Schwartz, I'm. I'm there.

[Griffin Newman]

But great.

[Dana Schwartz]

The Arcanas, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Where you have a combined pseudonym.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's like essay, Hard body or whatever. I forget what it is. What is it?

[Griffin Newman]

What is it?

[Dana Schwartz]

SD Coverly.

[David Sims]

O Steve.

[Griffin Newman]

There you go. What is the story behind deciding like we're going to write this together under a pseudonym but not hide that we're the ones who wrote it? Because I just saw the announcement of like Comic Con book. It's the two of us. Here's the name we wrote it under.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, it's because we like wrote it. We came up with the story together. I would write the female character, he would write the male character. We'd go back and forth chapters and then we were like talking to our editor and basically because I had written like YA novels, this is like a little sexy.

[Griffin Newman]

They were like, is it a branding thing?

[Dana Schwartz]

Is it a branding thing? And also this is like fairly common. Like people are less public about it, but there are a lot of like co written books that just use like one pseudonym.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm only. The only part that surprised me was announcing that from the forefront.

[Dana Schwartz]

I think the reason is because, because like I'm not. I like this book. I think we did a good job. I'm like proud of it. And I think the publisher and editor know that I have, like a promotional apparatus that they wanted to use. So they were like, we'll go with the pseudonym, but can you, like, push it on Instagram?

[Ben Hosley]

But it's you, right?

[David Sims]

We'll be public about the pseudonym.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. And I was like, yeah, I like this book. I wrote it.

[David Sims]

Cause I think it's good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's public.

[Ben Hosley]

Could have, though, showed up in a trench coat.

[David Sims]

I could have, like, with a mask and been like, I am S. What? SD Coverly.

[Dana Schwartz]

S, D Coverly.

[David Sims]

I am SD Coverly.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's very clever if you think about it. My initials are Dana Schwartz, which is a DS So we sort of. You flip them. Is this. It's a thinker.

[Griffin Newman]

Very clever.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you all for listening. Thus concludes our one episode series on the films of Joel Cohen, solo director. We should take a bow. It is fun that we'll have, like a new Joel Colin solo project, hopefully to cover in 2026.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And then whatever they might do in the future, either of them.

[Griffin Newman]

I just want to get back together.

[David Sims]

I do, too.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm all for this experimentation, but I'm. I. I certainly in re watching all of their films and then watching the solo ones, it's like when they're together, it is the best shit on earth.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Tune in next week.

[David Sims]

For next week, we're driving Driveway Dolls with mxm.

[Griffin Newman]

Tune.

[David Sims]

That's right. Great episode.

[Griffin Newman]

And then, of course, we get to end this series on a bang with Honey Don't. A movie that I will admit, kind of broke me. Oh, yeah. I need to watch it again. But it's the response to just not like it.

[Dana Schwartz]

The way the movie is titled is if your spouse is telling you they're going to watch this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. 10 comedy points. Let me be clear, David. I'm not at war with not liking.

[David Sims]

Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

I accepted that.

[David Sims]

Right. It's not a good movie. I mean, or you can. It's a. Others agree it is not good.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You're not screaming into the wind here.

[Griffin Newman]

No. But I do think it's interesting to talk about it. And we'll talk about it in.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Two weeks.

[David Sims]

God, I'm gonna have to rewatch it.

[Griffin Newman]

I. Sorry. I ordered the Blu Ray.

[David Sims]

Oh, that's just a bridge I shall not be crossing.

[Griffin Newman]

Gotta go on the shelf.

[Dana Schwartz]

Do you have the shelf space? You live in New York City.

[Griffin Newman]

The shelf space so much in storage. My life's a nightmare. Anyway, tune in next week for Driveway Dolls. And as always, David, I regret to tell you, but because we must consider the witchy tradition in Dana's guest appearances, and she already invoked it. Oh, Casper meets Wendy locked on the fe.

[Ben Hosley]

Thus thou. Okay, dost thou have a quote?

[Griffin Newman]

Save this for the mic recorded.

[David Sims]

There are actually a lot of really famous quotes from the play Macbeth.

[Griffin Newman]

There's any good, very quotable movie. There's not. It's.

[David Sims]

We've been where you were like, oh, like. Because I feel like that happens so often when you watch Shakespeare if you're not a Shakespeare person, where you're like, oh, that's like that phrase that exists in society.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, listen. Yeah, this is all being recorded. I had to read and I've seen Macbeth before.

[David Sims]

Fair enough. So it was not quite. It's not.

[Ben Hosley]

It wasn't as surprising.

[Dana Schwartz]

I like when they say sleep no more. I'm like, ah, yeah.

[David Sims]

And then they say, you know, it's closing soon.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, I'm just going to doing a bank show next.

[David Sims]

It's about a bank.

[Ben Hosley]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hoffman Mosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithee. Research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at blankcheckpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.