Blank Check with Griffin & David

Episode: The Tragedy of Macbeth (with Dana Schwartz)
Date: November 23, 2025
Hosts: Griffin Newman, David Sims
Guest: Dana Schwartz

Episode Overview

This episode tackles Joel Coen’s The Tragedy of Macbeth (2021), examining its production, performances, Shakespeare adaptations in general, and how it fits into the Coen filmography. The hosts and guest Dana Schwartz (author and host of “Noble Blood") dig into the movie’s origins, artistic choices, COVID-era context, and the always-fascinating “curse” of Macbeth. The conversation ranges widely, brimming with Blank Check’s signature blend of deep film nerdery, comedy, and tangents on everything from pandemic memories to Halloween costumes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter & Macbeth in Pop Culture (00:01–02:09)

• The crew jokes about how quotable Macbeth is (“Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow…”—which makes it onto IMDb quotes only after someone copy-pastes it).
• Dana notes the Coens tweaked a Lady Macbeth line about having children, “They shifted a tense that I was like, ah, they're making a choice” (01:25).
• Immediately Blank Check-y: riffing on pop culture and memory confusion from the COVID years.

2. Pandemic Production Stories (02:10–06:25)

• The movie was interrupted mid-shoot by COVID-19, with sets left as-is, then resumed months later.
  • Griffin: “They truly just, like, did what you said, where they were like, ‘okay, let's just, like, drop the lights where they are, expressionist sets. We'll be back in like, a week.’ And then they resumed filming in July” (04:06).
• Joel Coen’s visual choices (stark, minimal, easy for a bubble production) are shaped by circumstance but feel organic.

3. Tragedy of Macbeth’s Awards Run, Reception, & Performances (09:23–14:44)

• The group discusses the film’s “polite” reception, Oscar nominations, and particularly praises Kathryn Hunter’s witch performance.
  • David: "We gave Katherine Hunter best supporting Actress at the New York Film Critics Circle….No one else really bothered to award her anything, so I felt even better about it" (09:19).
• Hot takes: Dana finds Denzel Washington and Frances McDormand her “two least favorite performances.”
  • Dana: “I think my two least favorite performances in this movie are Denzel and Frances” (12:10).
• Other cast shout-outs: Alex Hassell (Ross) and Corey Hawkins (Macduff) are especially strong.

4. Macbeth in the Coen Canon & Shakespeare in General (06:36–09:09; 13:59–19:41)

• The episode highlights how this is the first time Blank Check is covering a straight Shakespeare adaptation.
• Joel Coen’s first solo film presents an opportunity to examine his directorial identity outside the Coen siblings’ collaborative effort.

5. Ross’s Role and the Third Murderer (15:03–16:19; 108:16–110:13)

• A major discussion centers on the expanded, mythic role of Ross (Alex Hassell).
  • Dana: “What I think is kind of one of the most interesting things about this movie is Alex Hassell's role. He plays Ross, who, if you see a production of Macbeth, you would be forgiven for being like, I don't know what that is.” (15:07)
• They applaud the choice to have Ross serve as the mysterious Third Murderer, giving the part dramatic heft.

6. Shakespearean Geekery & Personal histories (21:13–26:06)

• Dana and David recall performing in college/life productions (“I was Puck in A Midsummer Night’s Dream in high school. I wore a sparkly green sweater” – David, 22:22).
• Detailed digression on the Globe Theatre, Shakespeare conspiracy theories, and notable hoaxes.

7. The Macbeth Curse & Theater Superstition (45:55–51:21)

• The hosts riff on the legend that uttering “Macbeth” in a theater (or podcast studio) is bad luck.
  • Griffin: “...if you say Macbeth in a podcast studio, you are trapped to endorse brain powders for 20 years and get caught in the manosphere” (46:59).
• Amusing debates over the logistics of the curse and theater rules.

8. Scripts, Visual Style, and Technical Craft (84:19–90:54)

• In-depth discussion of the movie’s German Expressionist aesthetic:
  • “He wanted something that felt otherworldly.”
  • Props, sets, and costumes were all constructed in grayscale for the black-and-white shoot; extensive use of modular set pieces and invisible CGI.
• The chasm between the movie’s formal/visual achievement and its icy emotional tone is frequently discussed (90:36):
  • David: “At a certain point you worry that your movie's gonna get lost a little bit in the technical…does it just become sort of this pretty thing for you to look at?”

9. Aging Macbeths: Interpretations & Thematic Resonance (57:39–73:53)

• How making Macbeth and Lady Macbeth notably older changes thematic gears:
  • Dana: "It is interesting and noteworthy that this is a production of Macbeth, where Lady Macbeth and Macbeth are explicitly past childbearing age, which I think informs the text in an interesting way.” (57:39).
  • Discussion on the “boomer sense of entitlement” when leaders refuse to step aside (72:11):
    • “It does reflect a modern hell we live in of people refusing to retire” – Griffin.
• The marriage in this adaptation, as with Shakespeare’s play, is unusually strong—destrict from most Shakespeare couples.

10. Critique of Frances McDormand's Lady Macbeth (110:50–114:55)

• Dana and David dissect why McDormand’s Lady Macbeth doesn’t land:
  • Dana: "What I don't maybe attach to so much in this performance... I don't think Frances McDormand has an interesting answer...it feels like a very modern marriage...I read her very much as just like a. A straight shooter, good partner. And yes, she is like telling Macbeth what to do. But she's not like being really wily about about it." (111:57)
• Desire for more subversiveness or sexual energy in the role; contrast to Denzel’s contained, naturalistic Macbeth.

11. Shakespearean Adaptations and the Visual / Emotional Balance (145:20–146:14)

• General consensus: the film is a technical marvel, at times overwhelming and beautiful on the big screen, but cold and emotionally distancing at home or on repeat.
• Looking forward to Joel Coen’s next solo work for a clearer sense of his distinct artistic voice.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the film’s tonal choices:
  • “There’s a freak out at the younger generation and a fundamental condescension of, ‘you guys just don’t get it.’” – Griffin (73:28)
• On Lady Macbeth’s performance:
  • “A Lady Macbeth that’s informed by either the 11th or the 17th century...has to be more subversive...I read [McDormand] as just...a straight shooter.” – Dana (111:57)
• On the “curse” of Macbeth:
  • “If you say Macbeth in a podcast studio, you are trapped to endorse brain powders for 20 years and get caught in the manosphere.” – Griffin (46:59)
• On what makes the Coen brothers special:
  • “When they’re together, it is the best shit on earth.” – Griffin (167:16)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|-------------------------------------------------------| | 00:01–02:09 | Opening banter, Macbeth IMDb jokes, COVID memory loss| | 04:09–06:25 | COVID interruption & technical production | | 09:23–14:44 | Awards season, performances, and the "polite" Oscar nod| | 13:59–19:41 | Discussing Ross as Third Murderer, character expansion | | 21:13–26:06 | Shakespeare personal histories, Globe Theater tangent | | 45:55–51:21 | "Macbeth curse" and theatrical superstition | | 57:39–73:53 | Aging Macbeths, thematic resonance, generational critique| | 84:19–90:54 | Visual style, modular sets, technical craft | | 110:50–114:55| Why Lady Macbeth doesn't land (performance analysis) | | 145:20–146:14| Emotional distance, visual triumph, anticipation for next Joel Coen project |

Conclusion & Forward Look

The episode concludes with teases of upcoming episodes in the Coens mini-series and blanket hope that the Coen brothers reunite for future films. The hosts appreciate Joel’s formal prowess here but note a certain chilliness and lack of classic Coen humor or heart, making The Tragedy of Macbeth feel more like an impressive exercise than a fresh classic.

Further Reading / Listening

• Dana Schwartz's podcasts: “Noble Blood” and “Hoax”
• Blank Check’s upcoming episodes: Driveway Dolls (with mxmtoon), Honey Don’t
• Relevant Shakespeare adaptations: Orson Welles’ Macbeth, Throne of Blood, Polanski's Macbeth, Kurzel’s Macbeth, Globe pro-shots

Listen to Blank Check for more film deep-dives with the same blend of critical analysis and pop-culture riffs. For this episode, come for Macbeth, stay for the Bake Off digression.