True Grit with Stavros Halkias

Summary

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Blank Check with Griffin & David

Episode: “True Grit” with Stavros Halkias

Date: October 19, 2025

Guest: Stavros Halkias

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the Coen Brothers’ 2010 film "True Grit"—a rare Hollywood blockbuster in their otherwise eclectic career. Hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims are joined by comedian Stavros Halkias as they break down the making of the movie, Hailee Steinfeld’s breakout performance, the film’s literary origins, and its unique success as both a faithful Western and a deeply Coen-ized adaptation. The conversation takes characteristically sprawling detours—into ancient TV-watching habits, failed action stars, Greek basketball, and more—while always looping back to the extraordinary craft behind "True Grit."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Coens’ Approach to Adapting “True Grit”

• Attachment to the Book: The Coens remade "True Grit" because they “love the book so much,” considering author Charles Portis to be “American Shakespeare." (03:02)
  • Griffin: “If you just literally put the book on screen and transcribe every line of dialogue, people will be firing pistols up in the air in the audience.”
• Language-Focused Adaptation: They aimed for fidelity both to Portis’ dialogue and to the book’s perspective—centered on young Mattie Ross rather than the John Wayne version’s Rooster Cogburn focus.
  • David: “Their pitch was, hey, the language in the book is really great. We want a more faithful adaptation.” (22:41)

Notable Quote (03:02)

"We think Portis is, like, American Shakespeare. And, like, if you just literally put the book on screen and transcribe every line of dialogue, people will be firing pistols up in the air in the audience."
— Griffin Newman

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2. Hailee Steinfeld: The Miracle of Casting Mattie Ross

• Miracle Find: The production struggled to find an age-appropriate actor who could handle Portis’ language—Steinfeld wasn’t cast until three weeks before shooting.
  • David: "They saw a tape of her four weeks outside of production. They cast her three weeks before they actually started." (70:03)
• Breakout Performance: Steinfeld’s strength, maturity, and command of language—at age 13—stunned cast and crew.
  • Griffin: "Second she's on screen, I'm like, what the— I didn't even consider the kid actor being a part. I thought that would be the worst part of the movie." (25:16)
• Career Trajectory: The hosts track Steinfeld’s career, noting her detour into pop stardom and a recent resurgence (notably her role in "The Sinners").
  • Stavros: “It's so great when somebody that good—well, you know, a director that good just is like, this is an underutilized talent. I’m going to just fucking line something up for her.” (74:06)

Notable Quote (27:48)

“They were like, yeah, but she could read the language. Like, that's the whole thing immediately. Like, it's like, it's this complicated weird language. Yeah. And she's just nailing it.”
— David Sims

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3. The Men of “True Grit”: Unlikely Heroes and Losers

• Rooster Cogburn as Unsentimental: Bridges avoids John Wayne’s sentimentalism, instead playing Rooster as "a grotesque… aggressively unsavory."
  • Griffin: “He’s like, unpleasant. He smells bad… This guy's kind of a monster. And not only that, he's, like, aggressively unsavory.” (48:51)
• LaBoeuf as Comic Fraud: Damon’s LaBoeuf is all pomp and few credentials—a perfect fit for the Coens’ love of Western buffoons.
  • Stavros: “To me, Leaf feels so much like… is he good at any of this? Is he a complete fraud?” (51:12)
• "Every Guy in This Movie Rocks": The supporting cast in both major and minor roles contribute color, danger, and Cohen-style comedy.
  • David: “Every guy in this movie rocks… This is a movie, though, about how being a guy back then was pretty weird.” (04:55)

Notable Quote (42:44)

“Guy who doesn't give a shit about anything or anyone. And then at the end, he won't say it. But he'll do something that shows… The end of this movie gets me so worked up every time.”
— Griffin Newman

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4. The Film’s Themes: Cost, Loss, and the End of Childhood

• Mattie’s Precocity as a Burden: The film's structure—bookended by adult narration—emphasizes how Mattie’s hard-won "adulthood" comes at irreversible personal cost.
  • Griffin: “She basically is frozen in amber for the rest of her life. Like the, the sadness of the end of this movie is that you're just sort of like, well, she's just, she never grows past this.” (124:20)
• Cost of Revenge: The violence Mattie seeks brings no solace, only trauma—most literally in the pit-of-snakes climax and her lost arm.
  • Stavros: “At the core, this movie is one of my favorites of, like, I'm a big revenge movie guy. And the lesson almost always is it's not worth it.” (149:27)
• Bittersweet Denouement: Adult Mattie’s inability to reconnect with Rooster or recapture her formative adventure underscores the film’s meditation on time and memory.
  • Griffin: “She clearly thinks if I get to have one final emotional conversation with Rooster… this will all come together for me. And she gets there and they're like, no, just by happenstance, he died three days ago.” (156:07)

Notable Quote (149:40)

“It's not worth it. Never worth it. It always fucks your life up more. And this is, in-the-moment, the most on-the-nose. The gun you fire to kill the guy backfires and leaves you in a pit of dead bodies and snakes.”
— Stavros Halkias

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5. The Film’s Box Office and The State of Theaters

• A Blockbuster Outlier: "True Grit" grossed $170 million, easily outpacing other Coen Brothers films (the next closest, "No Country for Old Men," made $70 million).
  • Griffin: “This is their only like four quadrant smash.” (21:53)
• The Christmas Sweet Spot: Its success stemmed partly from a perfect Christmas release window when the competition ("Little Fockers," "Tron Legacy") fizzled and families were seeking all-ages fare.
  • David: “This is a movie teenagers can see… because it's about a teenager or it's about a child.” (68:11)
  • Griffin: “There is like this 10 day corridor when basically everyone's off from work and school and families are together and it's a PG13 movie.” (109:59)
• Would It Be a Hit Now?: The group doubts such a film could hit as big in today's streaming-focused marketplace.
  • Griffin: “Today you'd be like, I heard Focker sucks. I guess we stay home and watch YouTube.” (173:05)

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On Portis’ Dialogue:
  “You must pay for everything in this world one way or another. There's nothing free except the grace of Pod.”
  — Griffin Newman (00:15)

• On Hailee Steinfeld’s Casting:
  “He was like helping his little daughters get ready for school… I just put three [hairbands] around my tongue.”
  — Griffin (01:54, recounting Matt Damon’s prosthetic for LaBoeuf)

• On American Masculinity in ‘True Grit’:
  “This is a movie... about how being a guy back then was pretty weird because it's like if you're the coffin guy in like the Wild west, that's a weird job.”
  — David Sims (05:00)

• On The Film’s Ending & Mattie’s Fate:
  “It was the most alive she ever was… The only alternate path for her is if they successfully talk her out of going on this mission in the first place and go, now you got to go to finishing school. Put down the gun in the hat.”
  — Griffin (154:32)

• On Bridges’ Rooster Cogburn:
  “He's not doing the obvious thing you would do to try to do sweetheart. Which is also like... this guy's kind of a monster.”
  — Griffin Newman (48:51)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Banter & Steinfeld Casting (00:00–03:00)
• Western Language & Coens’ Intentions (03:00–08:00)
• On Supporting Cast, Guy-World Weirdness (05:00–08:30)
• Stavros on Tour-Life & Discovering the Coens (06:13–10:00)
• The Mattie/Steinfeld Miracle (25:45–29:00, 36:43–38:00)
• Coen Brothers’ Directorial Decisions (21:40–24:45)
• Analysis of Rooster, LaBoeuf, and “Guy-ness” (42:44–52:04; 53:05–56:12)
• Thematic Coda: Loss, Time, and Mattie’s Fate (124:20–156:54)
• Box Office Context (109:08–112:14, 160:01–173:11)
• Hailee Steinfeld’s Career Since (70:03–77:45)
• Topical Tangents: Greek basketball, Steven Seagal, TV viewing nostalgia (29:02–38:00, ~53:05–57:07, scattered)

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Memorable Moments

• On Making “True Grit” PG-13:
  “They need a couple of, like, Criterion To Be-like channels… my big idea and someone's gonna steal it is just essentially a hard drive and you load it up with a hundred bangers and it's just random absolute bangers. And of course for me it would be, like, you know, dumb guy core.”
  — Stavros (13:48)

• On Damon’s LaBoeuf:
  “His French name… He looks like a Toy Story cowboy, right? Like, like everything about him is, like, a little too performative…”
  — Griffin (51:50)

• On The Harshness of the Old West:
  “All of them are so realized. They're so real. And there's. And everyone is disgusting. Everyone is what a guy in that time. They're all sweaty. Everyone looks like shit.”
  — Stavros (49:00)

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains the hosts' trademark mix of erudition and irreverence—meticulous film-geek detail, contagious enthusiasm, and a willingness to spiral off into honest, hilarious tangents. Stavros is infectiously funny, adding not just bits but a real appreciation for the text and performances. The tone is equal parts admiration and bemusement at the film, its era, and the sorry state of male hygiene in frontier America.

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Summary for New Listeners

If you haven’t watched “True Grit” or listened to this episode, expect a lively deconstruction of how the Coens transformed an oft-misremembered Western into one of the most humane, linguistically rich, and bittersweet adventures of the 21st century—powered by a truly once-in-a-generation performance by Hailee Steinfeld. The hosts (and Stavros) dissect every facet: from the miracle of Steinfeld, Bridges’ anti-John Wayne pivot, Damon’s fraudulent Texas Ranger, and the spiritual cost of vengeance. All this is interwoven with anecdote-rich asides on tour life, TV and movie-watching nostalgia, and the peculiar joy of filling a hard drive with “dumb guy core.”

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Endnote

“And as always, time comes for us all.”
— Griffin Newman (185:56)

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Next Episode: Inside Llewyn Davis (or possibly coverage of Katherine Bigelow’s “House of Dynamite,” depending on release dates)

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Transcript

[Stavros Halkias]

Blank Check with Griffin and David.

[Griffin Newman]

Blankjack with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect.

[David Sims]

All you need to know is that.

[Griffin Newman]

The name of the shadow is Blackjack. You must pay for everything in this world one way or another. There's nothing free except the grace of Pod.

[David Sims]

Okay, so you're.

[Griffin Newman]

You didn't let me finish.

[David Sims]

Oh, sorry. You're doing podcast. A sincere, kind of, like, thoughtful, kind of like, you know, sticks with you moment.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. You know why I chose that strategically? Because I feel like we're gonna spend most of the next three hours going.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[David Sims]

A saucy line will not get you far with me. Is. Is something I say to people all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you say it that way.

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

How do you say it?

[David Sims]

Well, I can't. Can you do the beef? Do the beef.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, this is what I finally cracked. Watching at this time. Yeah, it's. It's Damon doing half a McConaughey.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Damon has a perfect McConaughey. He'll break out McConaughey on talk shows as, like, his party trick.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And his McConaughey is the best I've ever heard.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And this is him being like, I can't go full Mac.

[David Sims]

I can only do McConaughey saying MRI in. In interstate.

[Griffin Newman]

MRI. MRI.

[David Sims]

Is that one moment? Yeah. Okay, so go ahead.

[Griffin Newman]

Go.

[David Sims]

Go be l. Beef.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me. I'm looking for a line here.

[David Sims]

Maybe hold your tongue. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know how he did that? This is another. I've watched. I watch a lot of Damon interviews. Not for this, just generally.

[David Sims]

He talks. That guy run his mouth.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Why is he a podcaster? He couldn't figure out how to do it, and they couldn't figure out how to, like, build a prosthetic or anything to help him with it, because it's the fucking tongue. Like, nothing's going to stick. And he was, like, helping his little daughters get ready for school, and they had, like, elastic hair bands.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, wow.

[Griffin Newman]

And he was like, oh, let me try this. And he was like, I just put three around my tongue.

[David Sims]

Wow, that's so weird.

[Griffin Newman]

Isn't that weird?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But he was like. It was the only thing that stuck that wasn't, like, toxic. Interesting. Yeah. I'm looking. I'm looking for a good lebeef line here. I mean, what's the one about the lashings? Or he says that he was. He was fixing for a kiss.

[David Sims]

You give out very little sugar with your pronouncements. Is something.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, I can't do it. You you had it better. Yeah.

[David Sims]

While I sat watching, I gave some thought to stealing a kiss, though you are very young and sick and unattractive to. Boo. I'm just loving the way they talk, man.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's awesome.

[David Sims]

Can we just talk like this again?

[Griffin Newman]

I. Can we get back to this thought? The dumbest character in this movie speaks better than the current poet laureate of the United States, who I believe is Ben Husley. No, but it is like, the guys who are.

[David Sims]

The guys who called, like, right? Yes. Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And they're still like, yeah, if I shot the wreck guy, I'd be. And I'm like, yeah, this is the discussion room for Congress. Like, I love this guy. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Line in this movie. I mean, they've talked about the main reason they remade this is because they love the book so much. And they were like, we think Portis is, like, American Shakespeare.

[David Sims]

He is.

[Griffin Newman]

And, like, if you just literally put the book on screen and transcribe every line of dialogue, people will be firing pistols up in the air in the audience. Which happened.

[Stavros Halkias]

Someone went, that's like a benevolent joker.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's just, like, shooting a gun. Yeah. To celebrate.

[David Sims]

Maybe we should bring that back.

[Griffin Newman]

We should bring that back.

[David Sims]

You can have a plan.

[Stavros Halkias]

Fire.

[David Sims]

And fire it up. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

A gun that only fires up.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm pro.

[Stavros Halkias]

Maybe you have, like, a.

[David Sims]

If it's like this, a level or whatever. Yeah, exactly. A little bubble.

[Stavros Halkias]

Bubble level. And if it's going up, you can fire.

[Griffin Newman]

It won't activate.

[David Sims]

Movie is so heavy on guys firing a shot in the air to mean something. To be like, all right, I'm out of here. How is not everyone deaf? I think they kind of are. Yeah. They should all be then constantly screaming at one another, basically, to hear what each other is saying.

[Stavros Halkias]

That is true.

[David Sims]

I mean, mean, he, like. He empties his revolver at Snakes in, like, a cave, like, one inch from her head. I don't know how she ever hears again.

[Griffin Newman]

Brewster, in particular, keeps using his gun as, like, a multi tool. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes he used it to, like, cut a piece of paper, you know, to tie his shoes.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

I think I thought you were gonna go with. I heard you were a man of podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know, and that way we just go. We just take the. The title and this. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's interesting. Who knows if perhaps my instincts have dulled at this point, but I feel like there's a. There's a tough balance of. There's a level of sweatiness where the actual line has become so abstracted by the Way I put podcast in there, right. That is funny to me. Or it needs to be. The line is mostly intact.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[David Sims]

And I put the one in a coffin. That would be all right. That guy rocks.

[Griffin Newman]

This is another thing. Every guy in this movie rocks.

[David Sims]

This is a movie, though, about how being a guy back then was pretty weird because it's like if you're the coffin guy in like the Wild west, that's a weird job.

[Griffin Newman]

Not only kind of weird, but like basically sucked.

[David Sims]

Everything sucks, Everything's bad. And like my favorite character is the guy she trades with. Right. You know, Dick and Matthew, who I always.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

I always say that he's the one who says he likes to pull the cork, but it's another guy we'll talk about.

[Griffin Newman]

But Deacon Matthews has the two literal horse trading scenes, right?

[David Sims]

And like just where he's just like, can I be real with you? Living in this town is. Sucks. I have like, I'm ill all the time. I'm sure I'm going to die because I've moved beyond civilization. And all I do is like, haggle about the cost of a horse. Like, I'm just going to fucking die.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm going to great American philosophers. A poet laureate in his own right made the profound statement, there are a million ways to die in the west and all of them are terrible. Seth MacFarlane made an entire movie about this and it was too trenchant for America. They couldn't handle it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Really ahead of his time.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you seen that movie?

[Stavros Halkias]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's pretty good.

[Stavros Halkias]

I have no desire I've come around I don't know. I've come around. I did a lot of watching Family Guy on tour. I bought a. I was on a bus and we were talking.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And I bought early Family Guy and then I bought the Star wars family. I could. Whatever. I would just find DVDs at a grocery store.

[David Sims]

That's so funny that it's DVDs. It's DVDs, like because they're streaming. Because they have the built in, no.

[Griffin Newman]

WI fi, built in tv, dvd, comma. You were just saying every town you stopped and you go to Goodwill.

[Stavros Halkias]

I would go to your will. And I would find the next four.

[Griffin Newman]

Days of entertainment are defined by what they have.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes. And actually the Cohen's were big. Those were probably the only good movies we allowed ourselves. Because it was a lot of dog shit. It was a lot of like late period Seagal. It was a lot of like. It was a lot of like, you know, we had some Chuck. You get A lot of three packs with Seagull or a lot of four packs. Yeah, a lot of Chuck Norris three packs that you can find at a WINCO in Eugene, Oregon.

[David Sims]

We're talking, like, Seagal, like, Russia. Russia. Order of Lenin Seagal.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right at the beginning of that.

[David Sims]

Okay, so not now where he, like, does it in a chair.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, exactly. It's not chair. Which is a great. Yes. The. The. I believe my boy Nick said the donut. He's got a goatee that's like a donut. Like a black. Like a chocolate donut. Not chocolate donut. Seagal. Right before that. Like in. When he's trying to figure out when.

[David Sims]

He'S like, shit, I'm out. I'm directing video now. Like, what is this?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, I feel like chocolate donut. Seagal also has a thing where, like, there'll be a stunt chase with guy on a motorcycle, and the guy's wearing a helmet. And they've literally superimposed his face over the helmet.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. They've done that.

[Griffin Newman]

Or just printed out and taped it on front of the helmet.

[David Sims]

Do you remember his energy drink, Seagal? I don't remember Steven Seagal's Lightning Ball Energy. And it had two flavors. I have to look them up because they're so funny. Asian Experience and Ch. Cherry Charge. I think about Asian Experience all the time. The flavor is Asian Experience.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know what's the most interesting thing that. That guy. Look, he has his quick rise right in. In the late 80s, the early 90s, 10 years. And then it's sort of like this guy. He went crazy. He made, you know, he want. What Undeadly Ground is the one that he directed.

[David Sims]

That's the Ground is the one where he's like, we're gonna save the environment.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And everyone's like, this guy's cooked. And then, like, three years later, Joel Silver takes him out of the junk pile and is like, here's the formula. If we put you with a rapper.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And he had, like, four hit Seagal plus a rapper movie.

[David Sims]

What's crazy about those movies is, like, dmx, Axe him off. The screen is like, out of his gourd.

[Stavros Halkias]

I saw the DMX one in theaters.

[Griffin Newman]

No, that's Exit Wounds.

[David Sims]

Exit. And it's pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

And then Cradle to the Graves.

[David Sims]

Cradle to the Graves.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, no. Is that DMX and Jet Li?

[David Sims]

That is DMX and Jet Li, right? Yep, yep. I never saw that one.

[Griffin Newman]

But then there's a. What is it called? Half Past Dead.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Which is a great title.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's what.

[David Sims]

Ja rul.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, I gotta. I gotta throw that. If only we had come across that in the. In the DVD pile.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

That's Ja Rule and Morris Chestnut.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes.

[David Sims]

So who's a real actor, by the way?

[Stavros Halkias]

I've been talking about stuff that sucks. I love. Another thing we would watch on tour is Watson. Morris Chestnut. Sort of like, what if House was also. Well, what if House was Watson from Sherlock Holmes? It's tied into the Chestnut. It's Morris Chestnut, and he goes back to being a doctor. And Moriarty is. Is. Is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

Involved. Like, it's.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's Randall Park.

[David Sims]

Morgan is Moriarty.

[Griffin Newman]

Fuck.

[David Sims]

And.

[Stavros Halkias]

And, like. And, you know, the. They have twins for no reason. Like, they do the classic. Two of the people, two of the hot shots. Two of the hot shots doctors that.

[David Sims]

Oh, God, yeah. This guy plays identical twins.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's. It's so bad. But I can't stop.

[Griffin Newman]

They can't. America can't stop watching.

[David Sims]

It's so funny that we. I know. It's because Sherlock Holmes is, like, public domain or whatever that, like, every two years, someone's like, what if we do something with Sherlock Hol.

[Stavros Halkias]

We.

[Griffin Newman]

We literally did. Okay.

[David Sims]

Is it set in, like.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like.

[David Sims]

No, it's set in Chicago.

[Stavros Halkias]

Pittsburgh, actually.

[Griffin Newman]

We did this.

[Stavros Halkias]

Someone hasn't watched Watson.

[Griffin Newman]

But, like, first of all, you're saying that Watson is. What if House.

[Stavros Halkias]

So was.

[Griffin Newman]

Was Watson what if wat.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes. What if Watson was a sexy black guy? No, what if House was a sexy black guy that used to also be Sherlock Holmes assistant?

[David Sims]

But, you know. But did they say Sherlock Holmes? Like, they say, like, I used to work in London, right? In the.

[Griffin Newman]

In the show. Here's the thing.

[Stavros Halkias]

I had. I did miss the first 12 minutes of the pilot. Oh, huge.

[David Sims]

Apparently it's one year after Shawk Holmes fell down a waterfall.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's. So that's the thing. I. I caught it because it was playing after the NF NFL playoffs. You know, they were like, oh, after the AFC Championship, we got to hit a. This is. We got to have a lot of eyeballs. We got to make sure people watch Watson. I had gone. You know, I was pissed off.

[David Sims]

The.

[Stavros Halkias]

The Ravens lost and I had gone and been fucking sad and whatever. I left and then. Or actually, wait, we. We lost to. We lost before to the Bills, actually. The tie in to Haley Steinfeld, unfortunately, makes. It kind. Makes. That's the only thing that. That does tarnish my fandom is that it's another reminder of the ra. Every time I look at her, it's like, oh, the Ravens haven't. Haven't gone to the Super Bowl. Like, the bill. Her husband has beaten us multiple times.

[David Sims]

Anyway, the Bills haven't gone to the super bowl either, you guys.

[Stavros Halkias]

Joint losers. I do like Josh Allen, unfortunately. Like, that's, that's. It's. It reminds me of the grudging respect I have for a great rival of the Ravens.

[David Sims]

You know, even.

[Stavros Halkias]

Even his wife is, like, insanely talented. You know, it's like, anyway, whatever. To. Let's. Let's wrap up the Watson convo before moving on to. I. You know, it's important we finish this. But I missed. I missed the first 12 minutes, but I was so. The context clues. Think this movie, this, this show makes no sense with all the information, but imagine being thrust into it and being like, wait a second. What? He's Watson. Sherlock Holmes. Where the fuck is Sherlock? And then you're like, oh, he died. Moriarty threw him off. I'm now finding a waterfall. I didn't realize it was a waterfall. I did see some. There are some aquatic flashbacks. So this actually makes a thank you so much for. For making that clear, David. But yes, I. And I decided I'm never going to find out how it starts. I just need to figure out through beautiful. The economy of storytelling, of watching. I'm going to figure it out.

[Griffin Newman]

That's how fucking television used to work is a crazy thing to think about.

[David Sims]

Television used to be you started the episode of Law and Order midway through, and you're like, I guess this guy's the guy who did it. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're like, I guess I start watching the show from this point on.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And maybe reruns are playing at some point. And like, seven years into watching reruns, you might be like, oh, this is the first episode.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

There's no Wikipedia. You can't, like, just quickly backfill it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

You got that fucking Simpsons episode guide. You're, like, thumbing through it, being like, I hope the beast sharps one comes on someday.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes. No, I hope someday. 12 years from now, I am on Tubi and the pilot episode of Watson comes up. It auto plays. And that's when.

[Griffin Newman]

But it has to happen by chance.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, that's. I've become a Luddite, basically, where it's like, I'm on tube and I'm just letting. Or I'll go to those random movie channels and I'll just like, you know, Inglourious bastards was on one of those random movie channels. That's what I'm fucking watching right after five minutes. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

My whole thing. I don't need to detonate society. I just want to take us back to the 90s.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You know what I mean?

[Stavros Halkias]

I think you could make so much money if the criterion random is a little too random. Because it's like, look, I don't want to watch some fucking black and white Danish shit. You know what I mean? Like I. But if I don't want the rant like half the random shit on there is like, all right, I get this is important.

[David Sims]

Oh, let me throw it on. And like it's just like Jesus carrying across like a silent movie. And you're like, well, they just have.

[Griffin Newman]

The one like criterion 24 7.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

They need a couple to be like channels.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[David Sims]

They need like 70s noir, whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

I think you would make so much money if you. My big idea and someone's gonna steal it is just essentially a hard drive and you load it up with a hundred bangers and it's just a random absolute bangers. And of course for me it would be like, you know, dumb guy core. It's like give me every fucking. Give me all the. The. The Scorsese's with guns in them. Give me, give me all the.

[Griffin Newman]

None of the Scorsese again.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, yes, yes.

[David Sims]

Day Lewis to be like, oh yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

No disrespect, Age of Innocence, but that ain't going on my fucking hard drive. I'll watch it. But it's not what we're talking about here. Right? Give me Michael Mann. Give me like the Seagulls. All the rapper Seagull. Like you should be able to click a box and be like. Click a list and be like, I want 200 movies randomly playing on this hard drive. And I could just hit component and it's essentially gives you like a rank. I think that would be. You would make so much fucking money. Criterion should even do it. Criterion release random boxes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

And just be like. And I want it to be physical. Right. Because also I want the quality. Because you want.

[David Sims]

You don't want to be a problem.

[Griffin Newman]

You want like a curated Roku stick.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

The fucking scanning through is a nightmare. I got to close the loop on this. On this Watson talk.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And I want to just make it clear. Absolutely. Did this run at some point in the last four months and have already forgotten?

[David Sims]

I totally forgot about it because he already played some other hot doctor called like Redwood or what you like Morris. Justin just has his show every five years where you're like, he still hasn't aged. Cool looking.

[Griffin Newman]

Did he play Iron Sight? We figured this out.

[David Sims]

No, no. Blair Underwood played. Who's another guy who basically didn't.

[Stavros Halkias]

You want to talk about Pieces of ass.

[Griffin Newman]

One of the hottest guys. Horse Chestnut did play redwood or whatever the his name was called.

[David Sims]

I'm going to find Dr. Beaumont Rosewood Jr. And it's like, what's it about? And it's like, he's a doctor.

[Stavros Halkias]

I don't know. Get over it.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the point I want to make. House is based on Sherlock Holmes. The premise of House was what if Sherlock Holmes was a doctor today? And there all these illusions and the number on his office door and the address.

[David Sims]

Addiction, too. Right. It's all supposed. It's basically like he's asocial. He's. He's got a weird computer brain, he's super smart. But he's all stood tough.

[Griffin Newman]

10 things I hate about you for Sherlock Holmes. Right? And then that leads to the 2010s where you have the two Downey Jr. Movies. You have Cumberbatch, Martin Freeman show, and.

[David Sims]

You have like the Downey Jr. Movies is. Right. Downey Jr. Is like, what if Sherlock was a boxer?

[Stavros Halkias]

The. The.

[David Sims]

The Cumberbatch is like, what if he had a BlackBerry? Right? Like, that was his big thing. And then the element. Just like. Just Sherlock Holmes in, like Chicago.

[Stavros Halkias]

And I want to be clear. The only media based on Sherlock Holmes that I have ever including books or movies is Watson on cbs. I have never jumped in a single. I've never read, I guess maybe the Wishbone episode where he's Sherlock Holmes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, that's probably Sherlock Bones or something like that, Right? He has to be.

[Stavros Halkias]

If there's. I. I don't know if it was Sherlock, but I distinctly remember Wishbone in a little hat and that pipe.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely.

[Stavros Halkias]

That.

[Griffin Newman]

It's probably the Hound of Baskerville. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, maybe that. Exactly. Maybe.

[Griffin Newman]

Probably both. They probably did both.

[Stavros Halkias]

Either way, if there's a wishbone, Sherlock Holmes, that and Watson. I've never read a book. I've never. So that's all. And you know what? I love it that way. So to me, I'm like, whoa, this is pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Watson's cool.

[David Sims]

Like Morris Chestnut. Just looks like an AI filter where you're like, it can't be.

[Griffin Newman]

It's too symmetrical.

[David Sims]

So smooth. Everything's so perfect.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know, it looks like that. The guy in the newest Saulnier movie, the Rebel Ridge.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, that guy. That guy. Is.

[Griffin Newman]

His facial features are so extreme.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's literally. To me, that's the uncanny valley.

[David Sims]

Yes. It almost hurts to look at him.

[Stavros Halkias]

Trying to beat off, like, dead or alive volleyball. You know what I mean? It's like, he's too hot. Yeah. This, like.

[Griffin Newman]

You struggle to jerk off how hot he is, you can't come looking at Aaron Pierre. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Dead or alive. Volleyball is such a good example. Like, that is just the pure nonsense where they're like, no, it's a volleyball game. There's, like, 18 guys. My computers, like, doing boob physics or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

But you think back to, like, the 90s and the early 2000s, and just the, like, getting horny for just the abstract hint.

[Stavros Halkias]

Didn't take much.

[Griffin Newman]

Just being like, look, we. We have not cracked this technology at all.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, we're. And that's definitely another form of being a Luddite. We got to get. There's got to be a streaming box of that as well, where it's like, you don't get pornography. You get boobs from a Sears catalog. You get.

[David Sims]

Oh, it's right.

[Stavros Halkias]

You get, like, we have to roll.

[Griffin Newman]

It back to catalog seasons of Friends.

[Stavros Halkias]

Where they weren't wearing bras. You know what I mean? Like. Like Charmed. Charmed was big.

[David Sims]

Just Caroline in the City, man. Just every eighth episode of that.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You just think back to what a, like, cultural revolution it was of like, oh, my God, Lara Croft is so hot. They have made the first video game character, and you look at that first game, and she looks like a cybertruck.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could do the cheat code to get those triangle nipple loops just tits out. It's like.

[David Sims]

And at the time, you're like, yeah, you're just like. It's so hot. And you're like, oh, what's the game? It's like you mostly jump on rocks trying to like. It's so annoying.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's kind of Zelda, I guess. Like, hot Zelda.

[David Sims]

Really, really extended puzzle solving. Yeah, whatever, man. All right, I gotta ask. Watson fucks.

[Stavros Halkias]

What?

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's got a girl.

[Stavros Halkias]

Watson's ex wife has left him, but she's a piece of ass, too. And now she's. She's also bi, I guess. And now she's with a hot woman. Okay, so what it feels like. Oh, it feels like Watson's kind of trying to them both, but he's out.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[David Sims]

This is something that network TV is doing more and more of without anyone talking about it. Because, like, I threw on that show doctor Odyssey.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

With now canceled. Rip.

[David Sims]

Rip. But that was like a show where it's like, yeah, it's the Love Boat with doctors. And you're like, I get it. And they're like three episodes in. They're like, I think they're going to be in a throuple.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then like five episodes in, like, they're fully in a throuple and one of them is pregnant. Like, it's just. And I'm like, don't Grandma's watch cb. This is on cbs, the Columbia Broadcasting System.

[Griffin Newman]

That is what they are. Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

I will say Watson is a little more chaste. Like, I think he wants. I think he. He misses love. Right. I think that's really like. And so he's really focused. He's also dealing with some kind of. Kind of mysterious brain ailment that perfect Moriarty seems to be making worse through his nefarious agents. Yeah. They hit him with a syndrome gun.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Shooting weird waves at him.

[Griffin Newman]

Moriarty infected with the woke mind virus.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Watson is he. They. And that's his big problem, you know, but yeah, there's not an. They use Maurice Chestnut, but they don't make him explicitly. He's just so focused on medicine.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

He loves and, you know, piecing his life back together that I think he's not. Hopefully season two maybe, you know, he's made peace with his ex wife leaving him for a hot woman. Then he can move forward and he can fuck in season two. But I think right now it's about solving, you know, the mysteries that come his way and maybe thwarting Moriarty as well.

[David Sims]

It's been renewed 7 million viewers a week.

[Griffin Newman]

We wish him all the best.

[Stavros Halkias]

And I am one of those. I am one of those seven. I have one of those seven mil.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey. This is a blank check with Griffin and David.

[David Sims]

I'm David.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. This is a miniseries on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen together and separately. It.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, you're doing separate.

[Griffin Newman]

We're doing the separate.

[Stavros Halkias]

Interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

We're doing the separate. It is called Pod country for old casts. Today we are talking about True Grit, their blockbuster. People forget.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's insane. I didn't realize that. Yeah. Big.

[Griffin Newman]

This movie was. This movie made a hundred and seventy million dollars domestic. Their second highest grossing film, I believe, is no country.

[David Sims]

Which made 70.

[Griffin Newman]

70.

[David Sims]

Yeah. No, it's.

[Griffin Newman]

This is their only like four quadrant smash.

[David Sims]

It's not just that. It's like that they, this is them cashing the no country check. They win best picture and they go to Scott Rudin, normal guy. And they're like, hey, we want to do True Grit. And he's like, that's like a famous movie that won an Oscar. Why would you Wayne in it? Wait, that one, the first one John Wayne won. It was kind of like a. It was kind of like a retirement Oscar.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[David Sims]

You know, I kind of like a year old.

[Griffin Newman]

I did as well.

[Stavros Halkias]

It was a piece of shit.

[David Sims]

I think it's bad.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, no.

[David Sims]

And like that's the thing. They're like, yeah, but that movie sucks and we love the book and we want to do it. And he's like, like, okay. And they're like. And it can be like a PG13 Western. And then he's like, okay. And then it's a huge hit. Like they were totally right. Like, like this like weird niche pitch they throw. And they're like, no, but maybe families will go see at Christmas.

[Griffin Newman]

But their pitch was, hey, the languages in the book is really great. We want to make a more faithful adaptation of the language.

[Stavros Halkias]

We want a more literary Western.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And then he also was like, the book is solely from the perspective of the little girl and the movie kind of centralizes it more around John Wayne. We want to tell it more from the little girl. And Skyroon's like, great, so now we got to find some fucking 12 year old who can talk fast and ride a horse and shoot a gun.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's an insane pitch because this movie is an absolute banger and it does not work. I mean, Hailee Steinfeld is so like when I first watched it, it blew my fucking mind. I, I watched it in the context of like we weren't a huge movie family like kind of growing up and I, I had this summer where I was, I worked at Blockbuster on the way out and oh, like the dying days. The dying days. I'm a freshman.

[Griffin Newman]

I could never be your woman days.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, yeah. It started, it started when I was in still in, in high school. And so this is like 2007, right? Like right before when no country was was.

[Griffin Newman]

That year was 2007.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah. And I got into the like the Coen brothers were a bit of a blind spot for me and I, I in like I, I went through and like watched of their shit and I watched this movie as just sort of after that, after no country where I was. And I actually, you know what's funny? I weirdly. Which is a bad take in hindsight, but I watched all their sick movies, right? I watched their bangers. I watch, you know, Lebowski, Fargo, Fargo, the Blood simple. And I'm like, holy, these guys are incred. And then no, I see no country in theaters. I'm like, these guys rock. What the fuck else is next? And then thank you. Or Burn After. Burn after comes out and now I love that movie. But as a fucking idiot, as a 19 year old idiot who wanted fucking sinister killers and shit, I'm like, what the fuck is this bullshit? And it turned me off of. So I didn't see True Grit in theater.

[Griffin Newman]

Wild. Ok, because that's the next one after Burn, right?

[Stavros Halkias]

So it pissed me off. And then so I watched it later as just sort of like, all right, I was. I was wrong about Burn after reading Let Me fuck After I've been scorned. Let me go back and watch all this shit I missed. And I just thought it was going to be solid, but not as good as no country for Old Men, whatever. Because it's like, it feels almost like AI Generate Coen Brothers movie where it's like western cool cast. What? You know, revenge, whatever. The second she's on screen, I'm like, what the. I didn't even consider the kid actor being like a part. I thought that would be the worst part of the movie, right?

[David Sims]

You're like, I'm here to see Bridges with a gun.

[Stavros Halkias]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

You see a little kid on the fucking poster, you're like this. I hope she's not in it that much. And. And it's like. And then she's. She is. You're so breathtaking. Just her manner, the. Her power. She's like this. Like there's like her power level like a Dragon Ball Z. You put the reader on her, dude. Yeah, she's fucking. Her power levels are out of control. Just standing there, just having a conversation. And it blew me away more than any other aspect, which I don't think is a hot take is that I think. Did she get nominated for this?

[Griffin Newman]

She did. They put her in supporting the thing they always do with kids. Even though she is the lead of them.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean, without question. And that. That blew me. And a movie that rules. She is so good.

[Griffin Newman]

So anyway, she's astonishing.

[Stavros Halkias]

It was cr. In the mo. The fact thinking about you, thinking about them pitching this and they're like, oh yeah, obviously it's gonna star a kid. Like who the. Let them make this movie crazy because was she even an act?

[David Sims]

Like who?

[Stavros Halkias]

No, they just found her.

[Griffin Newman]

She had like two like sitcom guest spot appearances. I believe she's on an episode of Back to you.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But yes. No, it was like. That's the craziest part of the pitch, right? Is that like Burn After Reading. I believe they're already. They already have in the can before no country wins all the Oscars. They were on a like one a year movie clip. So Burn After Reading comes out like six months after no country sweeps the Oscars. But this is the movie they set up with the Oscar cachet csi.

[Stavros Halkias]

If. If it had been right after no country, this might have been like my favorite movie. I saw theaters like in the 20.

[Griffin Newman]

But that was like. They already had that in the can, this pitch. And then it's the craziest part of the pitch is like. And by the way, we can't start making the movie until we find the kid. Right? Like, I feel like they get Damon and Bridges attached really quickly. They've announced this and then I think the status. They said they auditioned 15,000.

[David Sims]

They got 15,000 tapes. Okay, they didn't audition 15,000. But the crazy thing is they didn't find her until three weeks before shooting. She was sifted through like so much shit. Yeah, they said. I mean the Cohen's were obviously like, we didn't watch that. Like our. Like most of it was just immediate. Like, no, no, this isn't an actor. And then they find her really late in la. Cuz they're looking across the country. They're like, let's find some.

[Griffin Newman]

And they're also like, her name is Haley Steinfeld sound right on paper.

[David Sims]

And she's actually like a quarter Filipino or whatever. Like it's like nothing about her.

[Griffin Newman]

A quarter African American. Is it true that that's part of the sinners thing?

[David Sims]

Yes, she's talking true in the sinners.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, no, that's true in real life.

[Stavros Halkias]

I think it's true. I think, I think.

[David Sims]

Sure, it might be one. She's got a mixed descent.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, she has.

[David Sims]

And they were like, yeah, but she could. She could read the language. Like that was the whole thing immediately. Like, it's like. It's this complicated weird language. Yeah. And she's just nailing it. And then there's that story Damon has where he's coming aboard a couple weeks in. The Cohen's come in, they do a take. The Cohen's come in, give Her. A crazy complicated adjustment. They do the next take. She nails it. And Damon goes over to Roger Deakins and he's like, is she. This is what she's like. She's this good. And Deakins is like, yeah, this is what she's like.

[Griffin Newman]

Just, like, right out of the box.

[David Sims]

Like, she's like, just fucking nailing everything.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, in the. In the John Wayne movie. And by the way, our guest today is Staros Hockey.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, yeah, right. How are we doing?

[Griffin Newman]

From Begonia.

[Stavros Halkias]

That is true.

[Griffin Newman]

Which will be coming out around the time this episode comes out.

[Stavros Halkias]

Around Halloween. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Oh, it does. Yeah, you're right. Wait, this is perfect. Yeah, this is perfect. It's out.

[Stavros Halkias]

They're gonna need me doing promo for it.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely. They're all. The train.

[Stavros Halkias]

They were like, listen, if you can swing blank check around the release of the movie, we'll let you get the part. And yes, I. That was a big risk for me because we didn't even know each other.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no. When I got the movie, no this lined up very well.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Your ghost is like. So you can do blank check? Yeah. You're like, yeah, man, whatever. I can dance. I can do eight accents.

[Stavros Halkias]

I can fence. I can jet ski. Whatever you need, big dog. Put me in the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

You can hang with the two friends.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Is your ghost. Chill. I interviewed him once a long time ago, and easily one of the only interviews I got with a press person called me before him, like, hey, just so. By the way, just so you know, he's really weird. Interesting. Like, just like, get ready for, like, a really weird guy. Now. That was a long time. I think now he's.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's the man. Yeah, he. I mean, look, I. The context is different. I mean, I can't imagine, like, doing press sucks dick. So if you're. If you're like an auteur who's like, I don't.

[Griffin Newman]

Even though, you know, and, like, not a performer.

[Stavros Halkias]

Not a performer. Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's like the lobster era, where I feel like the first question everyone probably has still is like, hey, why does every character your movie talk like a weird robot? Like, what's the vibe?

[Griffin Newman]

So, what were you smoking? And where can I get. I assume he just got years of those questions.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, no, I mean, he was the man. And look, I. I'm. I know. I know art kids, and I know Greek people. And so, like, you know, I grew up around both of that type of. Type of guy. And so it's like, he's your ultimate guy, and he's a Bad. He's a hoops guy. He played hoops and like we had a lot big. He's big. He played hoops and yeah, there was a big part where we were talking about. We talk about like hoops and he's, he's a big European hoops.

[David Sims]

Like he still follows it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, he literally, he thinks. Which is an insane take, but yeah, you know, he thinks it's better. He thinks better than the NBA.

[David Sims]

Do you ever see the. I mean, like, isn't that like where the arenas are just filled with people, like shooting off fireworks every Thursday?

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay. The vibes are way better. Don't get me wrong.

[David Sims]

Like, like the basketball is bad.

[Stavros Halkias]

Basketball is just not as open. I like a more open game. But what can I say? That was when I really was like, wow, I am Greek. American, not Greek.

[David Sims]

Like you actually like to spread the floor.

[Stavros Halkias]

You don't like now has three point shooting gotten a little out of control? I think it definitely has. So as a. So maybe I could see what he's talking about in that like the games are harder fought. But at the same time I don't want to go back to, you know, Pistons, spurs, finals, where it's like 63 to 71. But you agree, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, well, here's what I was going to say, that I actually can contribute to this.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know if you know this.

[David Sims]

His brother works in European basketball.

[Griffin Newman]

My brother works in European basketball. He works in the French basketball league, but his team has also now become part of the Euro basketball league. Oh, they got the French basketball. Basketball league, I feel like has its own content. This thing we're saying of like every basketball fandom, culture is different in every.

[Stavros Halkias]

Incredible, incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

And like I go to the Parisian games and there's a drum circle. There's like, he's like, those are the drum guys. They always buy this corner and they come with 20 drums and they're just banging them and that's what they do, right? And I'm like, is this a Paris thing? Is kind of a France thing. But then they'll play the Euro League games and like Turkey will come over and Turkey will be throwing smoke bombs and they're like, what is this to say? Turkish? They're like, yeah, that's their culture. Any Turkish basketball game you go to, people are throwing smoke bump. Like anytime they have a visiting team from a different European country and some of them are not European countries, but they go into the Euro League because there's nowhere else to go. They all have their own Thing where it's like, yeah, these guys love to throw marbles on the court.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, no, no. The. The Greek Championship series was suspended by the police this time. Like, the.

[David Sims]

It's so funny that he sounds like Division 2 best.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, the owners were, like. Like, banned from being there. Like, there's, like, they literally. This has happened multiple times, and it sucks for me because I'm an Olympiacos fan, and Panasonikos, unfortunately, has been better recently, and they're the ones that the. That the Kumbo brothers play for. And they have, like, a. There's a. There is a great profile about the Panasonicos owner, who's just an insane guy. And you should look that. It's very funny.

[David Sims]

I grew up in England, and it's. It's very interesting to hear you pronounce.

[Stavros Halkias]

That correctly, because, like, Panathenikos.

[David Sims]

Yeah, we're playing Parathonikos or whatever, know? Because, like, they're. That's the same. The football team's the same.

[Stavros Halkias]

Olympiacos.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah. Olympia. Galatasarai. You know, all these, like, sort of, like Greek, Turkish. I know. Oh, I know. I know. Yeah. Every time Arsenal would play Galatasaray.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It would be one of those things where, like, one fan would die, of course. Like, once a year, like, some fan gets stabbed because he, like, stayed out too late, went to the wrong bar after or whatever, and you just be like, that's like, that's fucking. Welcome to the NBA, baby.

[Stavros Halkias]

And I do love those vibes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I'm trying to remember which country it was, but there was some home games, my brother's team that I went to, where they made all of the away fans sit behind their basket. Yeah.

[David Sims]

They got to be in, like, a cage.

[Griffin Newman]

No, they truly put a net around it.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And they had riot cops because, like.

[David Sims]

Both ways, it's bad, you know? Like, everyone's gonna try and attack them and they might start fights.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

And then, like. Yeah, it's just this whole thing in America where it's like, well, what's your thing? It's like, well, we have a brass band in Britain. It's like, what's your thing? It's like. Like, we're racist. We're, like, allowed to be. It's, like, culturally acceptable for us to be, like, screaming Jewish epithets or whatever, like, something like that.

[Griffin Newman]

You're not a real fan if you have all your teeth, right. It's like you got to lose them in a fist fight during a great term hooligan's A great term.

[David Sims]

And it's just like this country where their emotions are not allowed out until they're in a football stadium and then they just become maniacs.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

David. This episode is brought to you again by mubi, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From iconic directors to emerging autours. There is always something new to discover with mubi. Each and every film is hand selected so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anywhere, anytime. But what, David? What if the cinema is actually kind of tv? Wait, this is a debate now this is a debate. No, it's cool to log this ad. Read on. Letterboxd is the debate to mark the.

[David Sims]

35Th anniversary since the release of the groundbreaking television show Twin Peaks. The complete original series plus its 2017 follow up, the limited event series are all available for the first time on mubi.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very exciting. I see people even just last week on the Reddit saying hey, I still haven't watched Twin Peak. Should I listen to the episodes? Are they going to spoil things for me? People, people are catching up with the back catalog. We did all lynch last year. We did all the Twin Peaks. Maybe you want to watch along. Maybe you want to re watch. Maybe you want to watch for the first time. It's a great, great opportunity. David Lynch's distinct vision and here's the word I always mispronounce, aesthetic have made his name synonymous with a unique cinematic style. Lynchian.

[David Sims]

Oh, this is a very Lynchian show.

[Griffin Newman]

She breaks the borders of reality to expose the unsettling truths hidden behind the American middle class happiness and allow the viewer to indulge in a bittersweet and dreamlike confusion.

[David Sims]

Why is this become like a wrestling promo?

[Griffin Newman]

Because I'm trying to hype people up.

[David Sims]

Okay. Obviously you should go watch Twin Peaks if you haven't on mubi and then you can go listen to our long discussions about it on Blank Check. That would be exciting. There's also really cool other television on movies such as Corieda's Going My Home, Lars Frontier's the Kingdom, which they restored.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

William Kentridge's Self portrait is a coffee pot.

[Griffin Newman]

And coming up, coming up on Car.

[David Sims]

Wise Blossoms, Shanghai and Mussolini, Stone of the century from Old Joe Wright.

[Griffin Newman]

Old Joe Wright.

[David Sims]

And we do have a big Joe Wright fan who's silent in the studio with us. Who's giving me a double thumbs up. Yeah. Mark Frost and David Lynch's Twin Peak.

[Griffin Newman]

We love it.

[David Sims]

To stream the best of cinema, you can try MUBI for free at for 30 days at blank check. That's mbi.com blank check for a month of great cinema for free.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's the thing I'm gonna say going to tr.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes please.

[Griffin Newman]

To the point of them finding Haley Steinfeld so late and being like such a miracle. Months and months of auditioning people, I guess, right. At a certain point they were just like, we just have to put this thing into motion and hope that we find the kid. I had a friend who was kind of like had a pin in her for months. She must have been 20 or 21, but looked kind of young. And they were just sort of like, we're keeping you on hold in case we don't find an actual kid.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

There was this notion of like there might not truly be a child child who can do this dialogue, carry the emotional weight and handle the stunts.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And so like I'm sure they had a couple of those, you know, but it was that close of like, if we can't find a kid, it might be you.

[Stavros Halkias]

And it could still be a good ass movie if It's a like 19, 17, whatever year old. But it's not the same.

[Griffin Newman]

It's magical. It's like magical that you're watching a child do. And I also think the ending, which to me is the whole thing that makes this movie profound, doesn't work if it isn't actually a kid at the beginning for sure. And you watch the John Wayne movie, which is really hokey, but one of its biggest issues is that it's, it's. What's her name? Kim Darby.

[David Sims]

Kim Darby. She's like 25 or whatever, right.

[Stavros Halkias]

She looks young, but yeah, not like a literal child.

[Griffin Newman]

But it is a grown up playing a kid, right? And in like a 60s film with like, you know, without a sense of like naturalism in its performances. You can kind of get away with her wearing a wig and being like Garland. She will occurs. Yeah, I please Mr. Rooster. But you read like it was supposed to be Mia Farrow.

[Stavros Halkias]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

And then she turned it down. After Rosemary's Baby she was. This was supposed to be her follow up to Rosemary's Baby. Could you imagine after Rosemary's Baby, Mia Farrow showing up and being like, Hi, I'm a 12 year old. Yeah, right.

[Stavros Halkias]

And then they go.

[David Sims]

Just got insane, right?

[Griffin Newman]

They go through like Sandra Locke Tuesday. Well, John Wayne wanted Karen Carpenter. They offered it to Sally Fellow Field. All of them over 20 years old. And then you end up with Kim Darby, who at least had the benefit of being an unknown. Where There wasn't the previous association in the same way of like, I've seen this person play a grown up yet. But it does totally change the vibe of the movie versus this movie starts with her. And you're like, who the is this kid? Which is what the whole story is driven by that, like, this is a girl who you believe can like trick fucking Deacon Matthews into buying back, selling her at a discount. The horses she just sold him at an upchurch.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, and what I love about those, I mean the early feeling of like, they show how powerful this character is because basically when she's dealing with people that will deal with her. Like the danger here is that she's a child, she's a girl. Right? It's like two like the kind of people that are not treated well in the fucking wild west. And when people will deal with her as a human being, well, just a guy trading with her. And it's wits versus wits. She's more. She's fucking. She's better than everyone. Like, she's tougher. Her only dangers are the most fucked up things possible, which is like someone could pick violence. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, exactly, exactly. And so that it was really cool they established her as like, yeah, this. Only some really fucked up shit can stop this person. And she knows she's susceptible to it.

[David Sims]

It.

[Stavros Halkias]

She's constantly walking this tightrope and she doesn't give a fuck because, you know, it's bigger than her. She has a. She has a. You know, she has a real goal here.

[David Sims]

Not to go all thesis, but like, what is so magnificent about this movie? Because in the movie I saw in theaters and I was like that rock. Loved that western, like, had a great time. And then as I kept watching, I kept being like, this might be the best movie they ever made. This might be like one of the best movies of the century or whatever is. I'm just like, it's like America there's right is like kind of civilization's kind of arrived. But everyone who lives out here is basically just a weirdo or a criminal or a drunk or some like diseased person or an immigrant who can only operate like, you know, out here in the wild or whatever. And you know, bad happens all the time. Someone argues over a dog and gets shot.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yep.

[David Sims]

And it's like, yeah, it sucks and we'll kind of deal with it. And she's just like, a great wrong has been done. And like, like I want this addressed because like a bad. This, this is not fair. Like that this happened to me. And, like, she just slowly infects everyone in the movie.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, Right.

[David Sims]

The beef is in it for money. Like, and he. And pride. And, like, you know, being a, you know, showboat. Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'd love to really crack.

[David Sims]

We're going to talk. Rooster's in it for. For whiskey and money. And just like, he just can only do this. Right. Like, you know, and it's like by.

[Griffin Newman]

The end, driven by ego as well, the idea of reputation being seen as a big man and a tough.

[David Sims]

Which is what matters out there.

[Griffin Newman]

And.

[David Sims]

And like, by the end of the movie, Rooster is like this. Like, he. He won't say it out loud maybe, but you can tell that he's like, this is important that we like this.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't want to say this always works.

[David Sims]

And it's like just this, like, glimmer of civilization, you know, like in a lawless.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't want to say it always works for me because that's what America.

[David Sims]

Is, which is not a great country. I think it is a great country character with no problems. But, like, that is what is going on.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. You have to execute it. Well, I'm not gonna go for the shittiest version of it that you haven't earned, but anytime you actually put the muscle into building properly. Guy who doesn't give a. About anything or anyone.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then at the end, he won't say it.

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

But he'll do something that shows when.

[David Sims]

His ass is so running.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, you know, the end of this movie gets me so worked up every time. Time. And it is like John Wayne plays the part a lot more sentimental, and they treat it much more like this nice guy is helping this little girl. Right. And they have this sort of begrudging, like, okay, little girly. But it does feel like the two of them are much more like, we have to help her. The whole thing in this movie is that these two guys are just like you. And then both of them keep accidentally showing their hand. LaBeouf is cornier. Right. Like, he'll. He'll open up and give her the respect increasingly over the course.

[David Sims]

He'll say it a lot because he's a man of Gap.

[Griffin Newman]

But Rooster will never say it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And him just running with her in his arms. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Her and Rooster really is. I mean, that's the pure. That's the. And. And, like, the beef is interesting to me. Like, your point, David, about it really, to me, feels like the Rooster and Maddie relationship is where you really see it, because he is. He really Just is a piece of. Like, he's awesome, but he's maybe one of the worst guys of all time, right?

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, he's on trial, and for. First you're like, on. You're like, yeah, Rooster, tell him. And then you're like, it does kind of sound like you just shot a bunch of.

[Stavros Halkias]

Definitely killed him.

[David Sims]

And also so drunk.

[Stavros Halkias]

And also, like, it's later revealed that they're both conf. Right. Both our heroes are confederate guys. Right? But he's the type of confederate that, like, the other Confederates were like, these are bad guys. Like, Labif was like, oh, you were that kind of Confederate. Like, which is fucking hilarious. Like, they give you. And then even at the end, as soon as that, like, he sobers up, he takes the money, whatever. Then there's the hilarious part where he finds a little whiskey and he's a piece of shit immediately, right? Like, he immediately gives into his vices, even though he might have been slowly on the path to, like, you know, helping her and growing. The second he gets a fucking bottle of whiskey that's done, and he's like, fuck you, bitch. I wash my hands. Get the fuck out of here. Exactly. You and Le Beef. Whatever.

[David Sims]

I mean, a bottle.

[Griffin Newman]

He's.

[David Sims]

He's put down three or four.

[Griffin Newman]

Dare I say this man loves to pull the court.

[David Sims]

I also love.

[Griffin Newman]

Favorite line in the history of movies.

[David Sims]

Three quarters of the way into the movie where. Where he's like, I did rob a bank one time. And she's like, what? And he's like, I don't know. Like, who cares?

[Griffin Newman]

His wife wanted me to be a lawyer.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he's like, yeah, that's what they thought.

[Stavros Halkias]

And then this. The story about what a badass he was, where he's charging at seven guys or whatever. It's like he's in the wrong there. He's just such a irredeemable piece of.

[David Sims]

But that is what she's like, I need a Terminator. I need, like, a of.

[Stavros Halkias]

And it's cool that she. Because she. When they. When they describe the three potential marshals, right? The bet, it's like, one's a good.

[David Sims]

It's like, final fight, guys.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, yeah, give me the piece of. That kills people. That's. And she knows that, which, to her credit, is awesome. She's like, I'm willing to deal with this kind of guy. He's a tool I can wield. But, yes, that's why seeing him become a. Essentially a good guy. Not good. Doing the good things.

[David Sims]

Two most crucial scenes are the beginning of the quest where he watches her take the horse over the river, Right? And it's just the simplest cinematic language possible. Cut to Rooster. Cut to horse. Cut to Rooster. There's nothing complicated going on at all. Every time you cut Back to Rooster, 5% more. And Jeff Bridges are like, damn, she's really going across the whole ass river. And that. No. What he does say when lebeef starts spanking her is like, I don't think I will let this happen.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And it's basically like, yeah, you've earned me a. Enough of my respect here.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And then by the end of the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

He loves her like a child. Like he, you know. Because he was mean to his actual child.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes. Right. Another thing that you pick out his.

[David Sims]

Monologues, you're like, what are you driving his family?

[Stavros Halkias]

And he's like, well, I guess I was a piece of shit. My boy didn't care for me immediately. Like, well, I guess I did treat him like he was so clumsy. Yeah. He broke so many of my glasses.

[David Sims]

I'm like, you're clumsy?

[Stavros Halkias]

And this guy who's killed 30 guys, imagine what he thinks is treating someone bad when he will even admit is treating someone bad.

[David Sims]

Like, oh, my God, One of the funniest things, right? He's like, I don't know. I've killed like 12 to 15 guys. The guy's like, I have the number here. He's like, yeah, I guess it's like 25. You got me.

[Stavros Halkias]

The court scene rules, too. Where he's. Where he's getting them, where he realizes people are laughing and he's kind of leaning into it. That little. Like Jeff. He knows, like, chuckle is tend to go backwards.

[David Sims]

Yes. Go ahead, Griff. Sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

As we said, I get so fired.

[David Sims]

Up about this movie rules.

[Griffin Newman]

John. John Wayne winning the Oscar for this was kind of like a gold watch retirement.

[David Sims]

That's exactly what it was.

[Stavros Halkias]

It was sent.

[David Sims]

Hey, you're. You're. You're kind of. It's a sent.

[Griffin Newman]

It was only his second nomination ever. He dies like seven or eight years after this. Yeah.

[David Sims]

In my. In my head, I'm like, oh, he died right after. And it's like, no, actually, he made a True Grit sequel.

[Griffin Newman]

They made a movie called Rooster Cogburn. That's him dealing with Katherine Heer. And she's like, oh, well, I know.

[Stavros Halkias]

He is. So. I mean, he sucks in it.

[David Sims]

John Wayne is an awesome actor. He's not good.

[Stavros Halkias]

And listen.

[Griffin Newman]

No, he's not.

[Stavros Halkias]

What's his shooter?

[Griffin Newman]

Shooters Is his last.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's incredible in that. Yeah, that's. What if he was that if he did that performance. Yeah, that's the kind of performance this movie needed. Yeah, he's pretty. He's much closer to what Bridges does here. Out of the Water.

[David Sims]

Is that, like, when I'm getting into movies, I think of him as a square, right? Because that's what you hear about John Wayne. It's like, oh, yeah, he was, you know, a conservative, and he supported the war and all that. It. And then you'll, like, watch any John Ford movie that he's in. You're like, I would. I'll vote for Reagan.

[Stavros Halkias]

If this guy, the coolest guy I've ever seen.

[David Sims]

But it's those movies where he's like.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's incredible.

[David Sims]

He's, like, stoic and violent. He's amazing in the Searchers. But True Grit is kind of what he's bad at, which is, like, you know, broad, kind of goofy.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, so the thing I was gonna identify is the moment that people, I think, give credit to winning him the Oscar is the 69 movies version of that monologue of explaining how he's up his marriages and his son, which in that movie is played as, like, a real. This guy has let his guard down. John Wayne is showing emotions, right? He's, like, getting vulnerable on camera, and they're around a campfire, and he's sort of looking off to the middle distance and being like, I guess I wasn't a good father, you know? And then they announce, okay, Coen brothers doing True Grit with Jeff Bridges. At the moment they announce it, Crazy Heart has not come out yet. Yet. So people were like, jeff Bridges is one of these great, overdue, this guy needs an Oscar, dudes. It would make so much sense that True Grit is kind of the movie that wins him an Oscar in the same way. Then Crazy Art comes out of nowhere.

[David Sims]

Then it would be like playing Joker. It's like, you want to win AN Oscar, play Mr. Cogburn. Right? Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Crazy Art comes out of nowhere.

[David Sims]

He wins.

[Griffin Newman]

And people are like, and can you believe he's got True Grit next year? Is he going to win two years in a row? And then the movie comes out and everyone's like, oh, he's playing it like a grotesque. He's not doing the obvious thing you.

[David Sims]

Would do to try to do sweetheart. No.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is also like. I feel like what's in the text of the movie is like, this guy's kind of a monster. And not only that, he's, like, aggressively Unsavory.

[Stavros Halkias]

Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

He's, like, unpleasant. He smells bad.

[Stavros Halkias]

But, I mean, obviously, Steinfeld is the absolute. A number one, like, secret. But the second thing for me, what they're incredibly good at is all their movies, all the little characters, all the world. It's like, it feels so. All of them are so realized. They're so real. And there's. And everyone is disgusting. Everyone is what a guy in that time. They're all sweaty. Everyone looks like shit. I mean, the scene where they come across the guys in the little hut and he shoots the guy in the. They look so disgusting. And especially when you compare it to the original, which is. Is a Looney Tunes cartoon. It's like fucking in Technicolor type shit that you're like. You're like, I. This is. This world is fucking terrifying.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I also think the choice they make with that monologue of Rooster's, like, backstory dump is that it's delivered as if he's doing, like, a fucking deaf comedy jam.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Routine to her. Largely disinterested. Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's time.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

They do these time lapses, how he occupies his monologuing. And he's not like, this is not me being vulnerable. This is me being like. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I up that marriage, too. He's like Abe Simpson, like, just talking to nobody.

[Griffin Newman]

Which tells you even more about him that this guy is revealing his greatest failings in life as, like, sort of, like, weird material.

[Stavros Halkias]

And it's also. But I also think, to me, it feels like it's nothing to him.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[Stavros Halkias]

He doesn't give a fuck.

[Griffin Newman]

Which tells you everything he knows.

[David Sims]

Again, he's not like, Iraq. Like, when she's like, hey, I'll give you. He's like, I sleep in a Chinese grocery store.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Online. Like ropes.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's just what I do. I happen to be an awesome murderer. I have, like. That's how I get whiskey. So, yeah. People call me a legend. It's a little.

[Griffin Newman]

It.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean, there's a little unforgiven to.

[David Sims]

This movie, too, where it's like, unforgiven is so serious. Like, I love that movie so much.

[Stavros Halkias]

But I mean, like, absolutely. They're different. But I just mean there's a little. There's. I actually feel a little unforgiven in both. Rooster is Clint Eastwood, obviously. And then Leef, to me, feels like a little bit of the guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Morgan Freeman.

[David Sims]

No, no, no, no.

[Griffin Newman]

Harris. English Bob.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, no, the. The kid who's a complete frog. Oh, yeah, that kid. To Me, Leaf feels so much like. The big question I have about Leaf is like, is he good at any of this? Is he a complete fraud? I mean, in Unforgiven, it's way more. It's so much clearer that that character never killed anybody. Is a pure fraud. Right. And it doesn't feel that way with Leef. Right. Leaf has definitely gone through some shit. It's almost like maybe if that character had to go through war and, like, maybe figure out. But he's not, he's not made of the same stuff.

[David Sims]

Rooster.

[Griffin Newman]

He doesn't have true grit.

[Stavros Halkias]

He doesn't have true grit.

[Griffin Newman]

He doesn't have true grit.

[Stavros Halkias]

There's no chance.

[Griffin Newman]

His French name.

[Stavros Halkias]

You can't have true grit.

[Griffin Newman]

He looks like a Toy Story cowboy, right? Like, like everything about him is, like, a little too performative, and he's trying.

[Stavros Halkias]

To, he's trying to intimidate a child, and he can't do it.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's, you know what I mean? Even though it's like, it's like, I.

[Griffin Newman]

Can'T decide if I want to intimidate or seduce you.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But I'm trying to figure out what a guy should do in this situation, and I'm pathetic.

[Stavros Halkias]

Pathetic at both.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

I don't really, you can tell. I don't really want to do either of it.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

And it's. But so it's like he's such a fraud in so many ways. And even, you know, not to skip it at the end. It's like, you don't. I love that. I mean, I know it's a hard shot, and even if you just take it at face value, there is, like, narrative value to him being, like, he did the. He claimed he could shoot from far away. Rooster told him he couldn't. He pulled off the shot to save Rooster's life. Life. That has its value. I, I, I watch it. I'm like, he doesn't know if he's a complete coin flip.

[Griffin Newman]

No. She keeps telling him to take the shot. He goes too. They're too far and they're moving too fast.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

And then finally, the guy, Barry Pepper, stops.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he gets the shot. And it is. You're like, yeah, good job, buddy. Like, what is your bully shot?

[Stavros Halkias]

But also completely lucky is how, you know.

[David Sims]

And, like, he never does anything particularly impressive, but he does, like, like, go all the way to wherever the they, you know, deep into Indian territory.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, he's fine. He can, like, he's fine.

[Stavros Halkias]

I, I think his life Outside of this, he. You could make a. You could read the character as impressive and, and whatever, but in this movie, he's a fuck. He's a complete loser.

[David Sims]

And of course, like, the number one thing as Haley's, as Maddie keeps saying, is like the guy they're chasing is like adults when you meet him. Sucks. He's bad at everything, dude.

[Stavros Halkias]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

And Brolin's so amazing. I mean, we're good.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's so good. But no, you're right. That part where she's. Where, where he meets her and she's like, you couldn't even catch this. You wait, You've been tracking this idiot for three months.

[Griffin Newman]

Three.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'll find him in four days. Like if. And. And at the time I'm like, she's so good at like, shitting on people. And then you meet the guy and you're like, wait, how did this guy outsmart Le be for four months?

[David Sims]

He is. But you're like, that's life in the Wild West. You could just be like, well, I'll just go to this like 100 million square acre area that no one lives in. It's like the weird dental dentist with.

[Griffin Newman]

A bear hat.

[David Sims]

Now would have like a podcast 100.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That guy has his own supplements. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Every Cohen's movie has like five guys like that. Or when they're on screen, you're like, is this the best performance I've ever seen in my life?

[Stavros Halkias]

Incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

The guy.

[David Sims]

The guy who does the animal noises. Love that guy. No explanation of why he does that. Eats it dead. That's the end.

[Griffin Newman]

So good.

[David Sims]

I just like the idea of Barry Pepper being like, I need an idiot. Kind of like a cold blooded murderer. Can we get like an animal guy in here just to keep it lively, like in My Little Posy.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

You didn't get to see this in theaters, but I remember the, the feeling in the audience when Brolin came on screen because, I mean, the posters for this movie are bridges Damon Brolin, right?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And they had him in the trailer. They have his face on the poster, but they didn't let him. Him speak. And you know, the whole movie structured around like, here's the big bad that they have to go and get revenge on, right? Like a, a, a, a, a,. He's the, the bill must be settled right with this man. And then you get to him and like the Carter Burwell score is swelling. And she sees him, she clocks him. The second he starts talking, the audience just exploded with laughter.

[Stavros Halkias]

Incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

And Just this immediate communication of, oh, this guy's like, nothing. Yeah, yeah, this guy is nothing.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's like the reverse spacy and seven. It's like the absolute reverse of, like.

[Griffin Newman]

Right where you're like, this guy's so much more terrifying than I could have imagined.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're just like, this is some random guy who, like, shot a dude because his ego was threatened. He was a little scared.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah. And. And yeah, even the way he's, like, he allows. He's like, hey, what are you doing here? You know, like the. The friendly conversation he's had with this girl who.

[David Sims]

Who.

[Stavros Halkias]

Whose dad. He knows he killed.

[David Sims]

He knows he killed her dad. She's looking at him like death, and he's like. And he, like, literally, he's like, let me put my gun away. And then my favorite thing is when she, like, points the gun him, he's like, nothing goes right for me. Like, he expects her to be like, I know, man. Yeah, it really sucks. To me.

[Griffin Newman]

He reveals the only reason he killed her father was because he felt like he made him look weak.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, he felt a little whatever. Cucked by Maddie Ross's dad, who I guess the. The implication in this character is that her dad must have been an exemplar to her in some way. Like, I don't think, like, she had some, like, complete loser dad. Right? Like, there's some sort of stiff Protestant, kind of, you know, like, frontier, like, character in her that must be from her dad because she's like, yeah, my mom's home with the babies and she's indecisive.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, the Wayne movie opens with. With her sending her father off.

[Stavros Halkias]

You meet the dad, which I thought sucked.

[Griffin Newman]

It sucks. It's so much better when he's a mystery. It's so great that this movie just opens.

[David Sims]

Have any of you read the book? By the way, I highly recommend it. It is basically this movie. The Cohen are really good at adaptation in that they just put the movie on the screen. Like, you're saying, like, the only thing they really add is the stuff with Dean Matthews. That's pure Cohen.

[Griffin Newman]

Uhhuh. And although there's a version of that scene in. In the original film.

[David Sims]

Yes, they. They.

[Griffin Newman]

They imp it up.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. And I highly recommend all of Portis books because there's only like, five of them. They all rock.

[Stavros Halkias]

They're all westerns.

[David Sims]

No, most of them are. His first book, Norwood, you would absolutely love, which is like, a weird road trip movie about, like, a guy who got Discharged from the Marines and just love meets a bunch of weirdos.

[Stavros Halkias]

Love that I most watched. What's the Nicholson movie where he's taking young Quaid to jail?

[David Sims]

Fucking last detail. Love that movie.

[Stavros Halkias]

Which is kind of similar to what. Yeah, the vibe you're talking about there.

[David Sims]

But, like, it's just like every piece of dialogue in his books is so cool. And that's what this movie is like.

[Griffin Newman]

Any.

[David Sims]

Anytime anyone talks, you're just like, put that on a postcard and hanging on the wall.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I will admit, when I saw this movie the first time, I was a little disappointed by it. And I think it was like, Cohen's Run. Such a heater run. In my mind. I was really in. I forgot, of course, Serious man happens in between Burn after, which also is amazing. So that's. That's their other cast passion of, like. What's the least commercial movie we can come up with?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, I watched those two. Those two back to back later, and I was like, these. These guys are.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's the era where you stepped away because you were like, are they doing.

[Stavros Halkias]

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

But I was. I was so into those three that I felt a little disappointed by this because it felt so much more straightforward to me where I was waiting for the weird Cohen's twist on it. So a second time in theaters immediately was like, what the is wrong with me? It is a movie that, like, if I can't sleep, I will just like, like, open itunes and just scrub to any random part and be like, let me just watch 15 minutes until I pass out.

[David Sims]

Because also, the most beautiful music, like, the score is so perfect. It's so goodlooking.

[Griffin Newman]

Deacon's on Fire looks incredible.

[Stavros Halkias]

So good.

[Griffin Newman]

And the dialogue is just like. It's musical.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, it is.

[Griffin Newman]

David.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It's beginning to look a lot like. Like the holidays.

[David Sims]

Oh, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm being non specific.

[David Sims]

There's lots of holidays down the road.

[Griffin Newman]

All holidays. Whatever holiday floats your boat.

[David Sims]

But as the holidays approach, you got to get what you need to personalize your home.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

With Wayfair.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Oh, my goodness. You need some Christmas trees.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely. Here's some questions.

[David Sims]

You need some wreaths?

[Griffin Newman]

Does your serveware need a refresh trash? A better plate to put cookies and milk out? Perhaps for a guest visitor, that makes sense. Does your guest room need a new comforter? Say, perhaps a visitor wants to take a quick nap in between dropping off presents.

[David Sims]

Guys, guys, Sorry to interrupt. I'm just. I'm wondering where can I get inflatables for My front yard.

[Griffin Newman]

D. Ben Wayfair. All of these problems can be solved at one place. Wayfair.

[David Sims]

Wayfair.

[Griffin Newman]

As the holidays approach, you get what you need to personalize your home. With Wayfair, you can shop holiday decor for every room in the house.

[David Sims]

Yeah, my whole thing with Wayfair has always been like, if you need like an item.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You just punch that into wave.

[Griffin Newman]

You punch it in and you'll be.

[David Sims]

Like, oh, damn, they have that too.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, the holidays are a time I'm sure. You need a table, you need relatives come visit. They need to stay. You want to get them better bedding, linens, throw pillows, accent chair.

[David Sims]

Like an inflatable candy cane. They probably got that.

[Stavros Halkias]

They better.

[Griffin Newman]

So you know what? I'm going take a big bite out of it. And look, we're using Wayfair right now. We've been using them to buy some new furniture for the office.

[David Sims]

What are we buying?

[Griffin Newman]

Little nook.

[David Sims]

We're, we're currently shopping. We're going to get ourselves a new couch.

[Griffin Newman]

We got a weirdly shaped corner. They have like, what do we fit in here?

[David Sims]

We have an inflatable candy cane, by the way.

[Griffin Newman]

Perfect.

[David Sims]

I died triple. So wait, what I missed what we're getting, we're getting ourselves also a little like bench sort of area with a.

[Stavros Halkias]

Table to sort of take advantage of.

[David Sims]

Like a weird corner of. We do have this funny little nook. And hey.

[Griffin Newman]

And we were like, what could possibly fill this nook? And Wayfair had the answer. The latitude run. Simple and stylish. Five person corner breakfast nook.

[David Sims]

Okay, so I'm going to do a little call to action now you say? Oh, well, I should point out though.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, point out some things first that.

[David Sims]

Wayfair does have free and easy delivery. Even on this big stuff. Sofas, dining tables, beds, and so on and so forth. You can find your seasonal must haves. I feel like we've made that point already. But the, the free delivery thing is really cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Humongous.

[David Sims]

Get organized, refreshed and ready for the holidays. For way less, head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait, David, we made a big mistake. I forgot to tell people that there's free and easy delivery. Even on the big stuff.

[David Sims]

Even on the big stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

David.

[David Sims]

Yes, Bur.

[Griffin Newman]

Chatter, chatter, chatter.

[David Sims]

Shiver. Those numbers be going down.

[Griffin Newman]

The weather is cooling. App Fahrenheit and celsius it doesn't matter. The numbers are still going to be.

[David Sims]

Going down, down, down, down.

[Griffin Newman]

And you know what that means.

[David Sims]

I don't.

[Griffin Newman]

I have no idea what that means. In the pieces that actually get the job done, I'm talking layers. Like a burrito. I want seven layers on my body at all times. Warm, durable, built to last, and it has the added advantage of hiding your flesh. Quince delivers every time with wardrobe staples that carry you through the season. David, you love Quince straight.

[David Sims]

Sure, I do love quince.

[Griffin Newman]

You love quince.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

There we go.

[David Sims]

No, I'm a huge Quince fan and I am in need of some warmth after spending my whole summer in quince polo shirts. Time for me to put on some Quinn sweaters.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. How about a little less Vince Staples and a little more Fall Staples? Because Quince will set you up with the items you want to wear on repeat.

[David Sims]

Relevant, currently.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know, like, 100% Mongolian cashmere from just $60. Classic fit denim and real leather and wool outerwear that looks sharp and holds up.

[David Sims]

What do we think of this suede trucker jacket?

[Griffin Newman]

I've noticed you have your eye on it. Your eyeball is sitting directly on top of said jacket.

[David Sims]

Maybe a dark chestnut, maybe an espresso.

[Griffin Newman]

Perfect for layering and just looks really casual put together and once again, hides human flesh. A thing I'm loath. I've left concerned with this, but I'm very concerned.

[David Sims]

Oh, boy. So that one looks cool to me. I look, I. This is my thing, though, because, like, you know, I look at the Quint's copy and I'm like, yeah, I love Quince.

[Griffin Newman]

And these items are so good. And you're like, I bet I gotta make some kind of Faustian bargain to own their products, right?

[David Sims]

Cheap. They're. They're really good.

[Griffin Newman]

But even beyond that, David, they partner directly with ethical factories and top artisans. Quince cuts out the middlemen to deliver premium quality at half the cost of similar brands. It's like an anti Faustian bargain.

[David Sims]

But then do you see how they're always like, you know, if you picked up anything in the other categories, Bedding, bath, travel accessories, cookware.

[Griffin Newman]

Cookware.

[David Sims]

They have cookware now. I'm, like, looking on their website, the.

[Griffin Newman]

Comfiest kitchen utensils you've ever seen.

[David Sims]

I'm just intrigued.

[Griffin Newman]

David's getting the bug.

[David Sims]

They got some pan sets, guys.

[Griffin Newman]

Cashmere pans.

[David Sims]

Looks more like ceramic and stainless steel, but very nice.

[Griffin Newman]

It's probably a better idea.

[David Sims]

Yeah. So I might check that out. Next. Listen, layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they Look. Go to quint.com jack for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com check. Free shipping in 365 day returns. Quince.com check. Let me open the dossier. Just to tell you like the thing about a serious man Griff is they're like we had that set up before we won the Oscar. The Cohen's are very upfront. Like no, this is us trying to leverage our Oscar.

[Griffin Newman]

Even still this movie only costs $40.

[David Sims]

Million and like you know, they don't, they don't go over the top ever really.

[Griffin Newman]

But.

[David Sims]

But yeah, Scott Rudin wanted them to adapt. He ever read that book?

[Stavros Halkias]

That's a good ass book. Yeah, I love that book.

[David Sims]

And like it feels obvious like Ruden reading that being like, yeah, Cohen's got to make this like what a weird concept. Like they'll be. And like I think they worked on it but may have kind of been like this is actually too obvious for us. There's a reason it never happened.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, no.

[David Sims]

What do you want to say, Stephanie?

[Stavros Halkias]

No, no, I think that's, I think I was just gonna say that that's. They are right about that. It is a little too. Oh, that's like what an idiot is like the Cohen's got to do that. It's like alternate history of like Jewish Alaska. It's like that. I want to see that.

[David Sims]

It's a super cool idea and it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Is, it is cool. And by the way you make that. I'm watching it. But, but the thing is I think there is a ceiling to that because they can't, I don't know, can you squeeze any, can you. What can you do to make that next level awesome? I don't know the way they took this and it, this feels, feels now I haven't read the book but it feels elevated. Particularly after watching the original.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Ruden pulls them out of their flop era, right? Like yeah. Ruden enters the picture. He's the one who's like, come on lady killers. They do know country. He's sort of like got them at this point. I imagine at the point he first throws it to them. They're still feeling like we kind of gotta win our way back in the public consciousness by this point. They have nothing to prove. They don't need to make a movie that someone else wants them to make.

[David Sims]

And, and they in Classic Cohen's fashion. Apparently both of them read this book to their children. And that's where they're kind of like, we should make this a movie and we should center it on the girl. Which the Wayne movie doesn't do. The Wayne movie. Wayne is the main character.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. But also, why would you rewrite any of this dialogue? Is their other big thing of like, the Wayne movie lost so much of that. They do talk so much about reading books together in a way I always find funny. And I'm sure in reality it's what you're describing of they both go like, hey, read this next. And it's like a brother's book club. But always in the way they talk about it. Even like, same with no country. Where they were like, we were both reading the book and we thought this would make a good movie. I imagine them like Bert and Ernie in parallel bags with matching pajamas.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. They got the cap, the one big.

[Griffin Newman]

Book dangling between their two beds.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Alternating with their finger. Exactly.

[David Sims]

This movie. And they. They're like, it needs to be PG13. Now, this movie does have someone's like, fingers getting cut off and someone getting shot.

[Griffin Newman]

Gnarly.

[David Sims]

But they kind of. I feel.

[Stavros Halkias]

You said that. I didn't even. I didn't even think about it. I thought. I just assumed it's R. But it's.

[Griffin Newman]

One of their only PG13 movies.

[David Sims]

Their other ones are oh, Brother is PG13. And weirdly, Hail Caesar. Although that's not a family movie really, but it's just not that lurid a movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Lady Killers is our. Into cruelty is PG13.

[David Sims]

Int. Cruelty is PG13. Hudsucker proxy is PG. Cuz that movie is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. You know, for kids.

[David Sims]

For kids, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But yeah, largely, obviously they don't care about that. But this one, they're consciously like, no, no, no. We want this to be a movie teenagers can see.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Because it's about a teenager or it's about a child.

[David Sims]

Like, that is like, I know this sounds so silly, but like, that is that, you know, they basically are like, Maddie is a pill. But like, we're drawn to her. She's so admirable. We love that, like, Presbyterian Protestant ethic. And they are very clear. Like, we saw that John Wayne movie when we were kids. We did not revisit it. And we told everyone not to watch it. Like, costume design that. Do not watch that movie. They're pretty obviously disdainful of it, though. Like, they're not just like, oh, it's a legendary movie, but who cares? They're like, no, no, no, no. Like, we don't like that movie.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean, it sucks.

[David Sims]

It's not good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's surprisingly bad.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sucks. Yeah. And not only it sucks, but they also. It sucks in ways. They're like. Like the way like old kung fu movies night would clearly be day and they just turn the fucking exposure down. They do that in this fucking movie. It's a fucking John Wayne movie in the 60s. 60s. You can't shoot at night. I have to look at this blue ass. Like, it's crazy how much it sucks, dude. It's like, I know that's this looks exactly like fun kung fu movies that are pretending it's nighttime. It's like it was. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And we need some scope here. We need like it was.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean, it's a mistake to watch you watch one after the other. It's like, this is crazy how much better it is true.

[David Sims]

Grid is the movie to watch TV on tv. The original, like on TV some afternoon and you're like, okay, gay. No, it's bad.

[Stavros Halkias]

If you want to. If you want to bond with your racist grandfather, that's. Throw that on. You know what I mean?

[David Sims]

Like, just watch the shootist. Quiet man. Other John Wayne, you know? But anyway, so yeah, Haley Steinfeld, not a seasoned pro, but she is a kid from la. Like, after they've been like searching across all of the southern United States for their Maddie. They saw a tape of her four weeks outside of production. They cast her three weeks, weeks before they Seinfeld's like, I read on a Saturday, got on a cool on call on a Tuesday. And like a week later I was basically going to set. And you know, it's one of those things where I didn't. Obviously she was unknown to me, right. And then like, after this, I want.

[Griffin Newman]

To talk about the history.

[David Sims]

We'll talk about her later, I guess. Yeah, okay, we can talk about it now.

[Griffin Newman]

I just want to talk about it.

[David Sims]

Well, just after this, I was like, oh, is it going to be like Keisha Castle Hughes from Whale Rider where it's like, oh, they. They what? A lightning in a bottle thing. And that's not an actor who's gonna.

[Griffin Newman]

Have a long felt for a number of years. Like she was it up, right? In a way where, like, if someone's this good in something that's this big, when they're that young, out of nowhere, you're like, well, how do you ever get past this?

[David Sims]

And she starts like a pop career and it's all of that kind of bad. You're kind of like, I mean, good for you. But like, this.

[Griffin Newman]

It just felt like, right, this hits so hard. She gets an Oscar nomination. And then it was like, actually, what I want to do is music. And also pitch perfect sequels. And she did like the and Juliet that no one saw. And it felt like everything between True Grit and Edge of Seventeen kind of was a whiff.

[David Sims]

You seen that movie? It was little scene.

[Griffin Newman]

It's great.

[David Sims]

It's so good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like her one good teen movie. And it's basically like her doing like.

[David Sims]

It's about a girl who's just 17 and is like having a nervous.

[Griffin Newman]

The opening of the movie is.

[David Sims]

But not in like a crazy way.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just like Woody Harrelson is her, like, cynical, like, disaffected teacher kind of her rooster cog burn.

[Stavros Halkias]

Interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

And she walks in during his lunch break and is like, I want to kill myself. I'm on suicide walk watch. And he's like, let me finish my sandwich.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then the movie is like her recounting how bad her life is, but it's just in a very. Like, her dad died and her best.

[David Sims]

Friend sleeping with her brother. I mean, I guess it's not normal, but it's like, you know, it's like such a good movie.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's like her doing like the female version of like, right. 80s John Cusack.

[David Sims]

And then she did Bumblebee, which she's like, good in.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's good. It's like low key.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, well, that's the thing. So I saw this, like, I said later, and I was like, what the. Is like, I gotta see what this girl. And then I probably looked at. I wasn't interested in Pitch Perfect. You know what I mean? That's not. Not my thing. Whatever. Which no disrespect. And. And then. And then everything I saw was like, Bumblebee. And then she was in fucking Hawkeye or whatever the fuck, right? And I'm like, what? Like, I remember getting pissed because I was like, what happened? This person fucking rules. And then I guess the Dickinson show, but I don't. Weirdly, I just never had Apple tv.

[Griffin Newman]

Two seasons of an Apple TV show that kind of doesn't exist. Three seasons, right?

[David Sims]

Three seasons. I'm going to stick up for Dickinson.

[Griffin Newman]

I like that show. I think it is kind of forgotten right now.

[David Sims]

Well, all those.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what I'm saying.

[Stavros Halkias]

But it was like.

[David Sims]

But it was.

[Stavros Halkias]

You can't get one other. Like, every kind of. And I guess, like. I guess Bumblebee and Hawkeye, whatever is enough to kind of keep stoking the flames. Yeah. But I was so fucking pissed. I was like, she is someone who has that in them. And it's like, yes. Either it's lightning in a bottle because it could have been so special. Special because there is something about like that kind of childlike confidence that you don't know any better.

[David Sims]

Yes. Like the camera's barely been on you before, so you're just exactly like.

[Stavros Halkias]

I remember my. Like I. When I was a fat little child in theater, I was like, before I was like in middle school, I was like, I'm actually a jock. Which is hysterical. Like, I quit. I quit and like, look how my life has turned out. I'm clearly a performer. But you know, I'm like five, five fattest shit. I'm like, I'm going to be in the NBA. I'm gonna to quit being in plays. So I. If you had put me in a fucking. I think I thought I was like the fucking most talented. You know, you had nine year old.

[David Sims]

In the world, the prepubescent, like the world hasn't knocked you down. You know, like, I mean, Obviously she's like 14, but you know what I mean?

[Stavros Halkias]

Like there's some, there's some like, oh, okay. This unfortunately could have just been so, you know, the perfect storm of one of the best performances ever. But you hope that's not going to happen. And then obviously I think, think Sinners was like, it's so great when somebody that good. Well, you know, a director that good just is like, this is an underutilized talent. I'm going to just fucking line something up for her. That's because it. That allowed her to be. To do everything right.

[Griffin Newman]

That was the thing.

[Stavros Halkias]

Incredible acting, hot, as scary as. And then even like a little action. It was like such a perfect movie star. Put this girl on performance. So I'm pumped to see what happens.

[Griffin Newman]

It's kind of like a start of a second era. It feels like. I mean I had always just had this feeling of like, of like, has she kind of dropped the ball because.

[David Sims]

Or does she maybe not give a. Like, you know, sometimes these people also.

[Griffin Newman]

Are really good and have really bad taste. Like you meet them, right? And you're like, oh, you don't know what a good movie is. That's why you keep picking bad ones. But this performance is so skillful that you're like. It's not just that she's charismatic. It is so complicated what she's doing here in such A high level movie that it's like, it can't be an accident.

[Stavros Halkias]

Absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

And then I'm just. Right. There's so many of these I like, forgot about after True Grip. But it's like, right, Begin Again, the John Carney movie where she's like Ruffalo's precocious daughter. Right. Romeo and Juliet. Hate Ship, Love Ship, Ender's Game. Three Days where she's Costa's precocious daughter. Right. Then there's Barely Lethal. And there was also the one Term Life that she did with Vince.

[David Sims]

I actually wrote and directed Barely Lethal.

[Griffin Newman]

So, you know, there's like five or six years where you're like, this.

[David Sims]

All the other thing with her doing nothing sound insane is that she was in the Taylor Swift verse. Like, she was one of her friends. And that's when everyone was obsessed with like, Taylor Swift's whole, like, star thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Why are you trying to do this?

[David Sims]

She also dated one of the Run direction guys. Like, she had a whole, like, she was a celebrity.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

She was never gone from the public. Felt like she was the voice of Gwen Stacy.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Starts coming back.

[Stavros Halkias]

I agree.

[Griffin Newman]

Because it's like edge of 17 was sort of of like, here we go. And then she's good in Bumblebee, but Bumblebee ends up sort of being a franchise dead end. She's great in the Spider Verse movies.

[David Sims]

The thing with Dickinson was that it was like, hey, Apple has a show. It's a Emily Dickinson, but it's like Gen Z. And you're like, that sounds like, I want to, like, drink glass. Like, I. I can't. I. They're like, no, no, you don't get it. John Mulaney plays Ralph Waldo Emerson. I'm like.

[Stavros Halkias]

Watch his episode.

[David Sims]

What are we doing? Oh, no, he's. Sorry, please. He plays Thoreau. I take it back. Okay. Yeah. Wiz Khalifa plays Death. And you're like, this sounds like someone spinning some, like, torture wheel.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then you watch the show and you're like, unbelievably, this is tolerable. Like, this is not that bad. And it's largely her. She's so.

[Griffin Newman]

I think she kind of doesn't miss in terms of her actual ability. She's always as long and feels like she's now very selective. But there was that thing in Sinners where you're sort of of like, you've kind of now set the table perfectly for the next 10 years of your career because you've reintroduced yourself as an adult. That is like the first Time she has played as a grown up in a movie and as you said, showed a little bit of everything and she feels very exciting again now.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Especially in, like, a time where it's like, how the. Do you even. There are no movie stars. She's kind of positioned to be like, I mean, who in her age group? What. You know, what woman. Woman is like, who are the real deal? Bonafide young, you know, female movie stars. Like, there's a little bit more dudes that come to mind.

[Griffin Newman]

But even, you know, I mean, like, in. In the 20s class, it is like, it's Florence Pugh.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sure. Of course. Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

It's Saoirse Ronan, who kind of, I guess.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Saoirse Ronan sort of had the run that I think people thought Haley Steinfeld was going to have the American version of. Like, you're a child prodigy, you got an Oscar nomination and you were just going to continue being. Being a serious actor first and foremost. Like, even if you're going to do things that are fun and commercial, they are like prestigious movies. And Seinfeld, it did feel was doing the kind of like, I need a blockbuster. I guess I should do a Marvel. You know, she's great on Hawkeye, but.

[Stavros Halkias]

It'S one of those, like, it's Hawkeye.

[David Sims]

That's the thing.

[Griffin Newman]

By the time it comes out, you're like, why is Haley Steinfeld doing six episodes of a Disney plus show for the least important event?

[Stavros Halkias]

Come on.

[Griffin Newman]

She's, like, on fire in it. I remember watching it being like, right, Haley Steinfeld, she's good in it with Florence Pugh. And you're like, this is like Pacino and De Niro going at it. And you're like, why is this being.

[Stavros Halkias]

Wasted on a. Yeah, put it on. Juan Division, the one everybody was, like, excited to see.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

By the time Hawkeye comes around, everyone's done. Oh, wait, this sucks.

[Griffin Newman]

And now she'll, like, show up and end credits and be like, I don't know, maybe I'll come back.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, they've just kept her on the burden.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You look like you were about to say something, Ben, or were you just leaning in?

[Stavros Halkias]

I was just leaning. I mean, I don't know.

[David Sims]

Come on, lean in Z.

[Griffin Newman]

Z is on the same group. I'm trying to think of the.

[David Sims]

Under Zendaya is the example of someone.

[Stavros Halkias]

Where it's Sweeney, I guess.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Sydney Sweeney. What's up with her these days? Yeah, but like, Zendaya, someone where she's like, she's got really good taste. She's seeking out big directors she wants to work with. Right. She's doing the kind of the. The movie star part plan. Sydney Sweeney is a little bit more like, she's got some taste. She's not a bad actor, but she'll also be like, should I sell my bath water? You know, like where you're like, okay, so you're sort of in the influencer space.

[Griffin Newman]

She's like an operator where she's like, look, I want to.

[David Sims]

She's like, exactly like, you know, these strategic twin things. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

To try to get my good thing made. And she's like open about that.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, look, Jeff Bridges just to just circle around the rest of the cast. Obviously the Cohen's know. Know him well. Well.

[Griffin Newman]

But only the second time they work together.

[David Sims]

And they're like, we want to make a western. He's like, I'll do a western. And they're like, it's gonna be True Grit. And he's like, he. Initially, he is kind of like, what the.

[Griffin Newman]

Why would I.

[David Sims]

That's John Wayne. And then he's like, I read the book and I read the script and I was just kind of like, I get it. Like, they're just doing something different. I didn't think about John Wayne anymore. I don't really care. I mean, this is an Ethan Cohen quote here. Like, a lot of people might take umbrage, but I'm not sure that's an iconic performance from John Wayne. To think of an iconic because of the Oscar is a mistake. Like they're up front being like that movie, right?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also funny that.

[David Sims]

And they're like. And John Wayne's good in other movies.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, we're not saying we're not John Wayne haters. This movie just sucks.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's also funny that they only do two movies together. The Cohens and Bridges. Right.

[David Sims]

He's a specific guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying, like.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

They're other roles. Roles that make sense that he could have slotted on. Totally. But he's such a good star for them in two very distinct performances that are so different from each other.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But in certain ways have become at least like the two big pillars of adult Bridges.

[Stavros Halkias]

Definitely.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Like, I mean, there's like young hotshot Bridges. Right. But to a certain degree it's like Chill Stone or Dude and Billy Goat Gruff.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And they've like come up with the two defining performance for him in many ways. Even even though he wins his True Grit Oscar for Crazy Heart. I. I think at the moment they announced he was doing this, Lebowski was such a big flop at the time. They kind of announced this at like peak Lebowski everyone.

[David Sims]

Right. Iconic by that time.

[Griffin Newman]

The idea of he's working with them again was like lightning in a bottle. Exciting. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's crazy because again, I didn't even know that it was a flop. You know what I mean? For me, it was like. Like the thing everybody talks about in college.

[David Sims]

You go to college and everyone's like, it's one of the five movies, right?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. You have. Of course. Don't even get when you guys do the Boondock Saints episode. I got dibs on that.

[David Sims]

Please come back.

[Stavros Halkias]

I have watched Boondock Saints so recently. It's hysterical.

[David Sims]

Fifteen years I watched Boondock Saints like.

[Stavros Halkias]

TWA back to back. I watched it once on the bus.

[Griffin Newman]

You had it on the bus?

[Stavros Halkias]

And then we. We watched me and my buddy watch it the. The day we were like, oh, we're probably gonna end up watching some shitty movies like Boondock Saints. And then he started playing it and I'm like, haha, very funny. Watch the whole thing. The second you put that shit on, dude. I remember being like 12 and being like me and my little brothers having an earnest conversation. We're like, okay, it's Godfather too is still better. Right? We got Saints is like nipping on.

[Griffin Newman]

Its heels because he is in the conversation.

[David Sims]

Actually a movie that is like the point of view of a 12 year old.

[Stavros Halkias]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

Like that's actually how you should approach life and crime and like, you know, clean up the streets and protect your bar or whatever.

[Stavros Halkias]

Very nuanced portrayal of what gay people are like.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a woke movie. Yeah.

[David Sims]

The movie's got its head on its shoulders.

[Stavros Halkias]

God damn. Yeah. The Troy Duffy.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that's his name. And he keeps being like, I got three ready to go.

[Griffin Newman]

Am I wrong?

[David Sims]

They keep saying they're going to.

[Stavros Halkias]

They may. Recently it's been in development.

[David Sims]

I mean the whole thing is that Norman's like stringy haired ass is more famous than ever. Like they should cash in on it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but he's never directed a non Boondock movie, right?

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Who's the other guy's Norman Reus? Who's the other guy?

[Griffin Newman]

Sean Patrick Flannery.

[David Sims]

That guy must be like, come on. Because like Norman Reus is like, I'll go do another death stranding and Walking.

[Griffin Newman]

Dead also show up in other like the bike riders and basically just be the same thing.

[David Sims]

He's in Ballerina right?

[Griffin Newman]

He just shows up with the same look on a motorcycle.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And does his thing.

[Stavros Halkias]

Respect, dude.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I. I think them announcing bridges felt like, oh, De Niro and Scorsese are doing the Irishman together. Right. It was like they're. They're almost a layup.

[David Sims]

But you know what? I want to watch that.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's a perfect old man part for him.

[David Sims]

Damon. This is the first Damon Cohen.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And the only.

[David Sims]

It's the only. It's just so funny that every time they get, like, an Ocean's Guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Clooney, Damon Pitt, they're like, yeah, you're a buffoon.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, they love making traditional.

[David Sims]

Damon's like, I get it. The way he puts it is, he's like, I want a guy. This guy is, like, presentation of Tommy Lee. Hilarious. That that's who he's thinking of. The, like, charm of Bill Clinton. No such substance. Like, that's how. That's my approach with this guy. Like, he's slick. He's put together. He's a zero.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, so goodness. And I. He's litigated before. I'm always like, it is astounding. He didn't get nominated because he's such a big star in such a, like, killer supporting role in a huge hit movie. But it's. Yeah. Incredibly stacked. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

What. So this is. They're catching Damon when? Chronologically?

[David Sims]

That's a good call. When is it finished?

[Griffin Newman]

The Bourne trilogy. And in theory, that's in the back seat. I mean, this is a period where he keeps saying, I want to direct. I think I want to transition. More directing, which ends up being more the move that Affleck does.

[David Sims]

This is a weird time for him because you're right. Like, the Last born is 07. In 08, he, like, pops into the Che movie for a second. All right. You know, in 09, he pops on.

[Griffin Newman]

The youth without youth.

[David Sims]

In 09, he puts on a bunch of weight and he does the Informant, which he's great in.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's a good inform. Good.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. And then he somehow loses all the weight, but plays a rugby player in Invictus, which is like a bad movie, but he's fine.

[Griffin Newman]

Like Cats and Oscar for that.

[Stavros Halkias]

But that also was kind of like the Invictus was like, it feels like just such a prestige for prestige. Yeah, I remember that.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And in 2010, he has a really weird year. He does Green Zone, which is a giant bomb, which is sort of his. Like him with Green Grass again without Born.

[Griffin Newman]

Can we. Then we do Born but now it's really about the Iraq war, right?

[David Sims]

That's the tail end of them being like, you don't want like a really serious movie about Hera is up and America's like, no, everyone's so done with the mov. Not interested. Is Iron man there?

[Stavros Halkias]

No, not interested. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Hereafter, the Clint Eastwood movie, which is, in my opinion, an incredible movie, but.

[Griffin Newman]

He'S not really the lead in it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Was.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like a trip dick, right?

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's all right, you know, he's good in it. He's actually really good in it. It's an amazing movie, but it's. People are just like, what the is this? This? It's about like psychics and tsunamis. It's so weird. And then True Grit, the next year he does Adjustment Bureau Contagion, We Bought a Zoo. He's kind of like, what's my deal?

[Griffin Newman]

Right? Margaret finally comes out in Happy Feet 2 as well.

[David Sims]

And then he's like, I. He's like, all right, can I not be an action star? Can I make like, you know, proper dramas and stuff? And like, some of them are good, some of them are. We bought as.

[Griffin Newman]

I need to throw out the other two factors at play here in this era. Okay? One is that here he says, I want to direct Promised Land, which Gus Van Sant ends up directing, that he co wrote with Krasinski and still stars in, was supposed to be the first movie he directed. And there were a couple other scripts he bought that he had announced he was going to direct. And in this era, very overtly in the press, he keeps saying, I think I want to transition more directing. So when I do a movie now, it's really based on me wanting to learn from other directors. So there's a certain amount of checklist, like, am I thrilled about doing Invictus? I got to work with Clint, right? True Grit, I need to have a Cohen's in my back pocket. I'm trying to study all these people now. So he's sort of going director first and then there's a lot of him returning to his regular Soderbergh Greengrass repeating his guys, right? The second thing is, in this exact era, these are the movies he did instead of Avatar, where he was the first choice for Avatar and Cameron and.

[David Sims]

They were like, you get a ton of money, you get a piece of the movie. You do have to live in New Zealand for like three.

[Griffin Newman]

It was, I can't give you the money cuz the tech is so expensive, but I can give you 10% of.

[Stavros Halkias]

The film of the grosses.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's like, that's going to take me off the board for like three years.

[Stavros Halkias]

But it was for these movies. Cuz he would. I mean, look, no disrespect to, you know, Jake Sully, but Damon is. Jake Sully is better.

[Griffin Newman]

It's this weird thing of Damon would have been great. And I almost wonder if, I think.

[Stavros Halkias]

I don't know, he's good enough to.

[Griffin Newman]

He's good at becoming a blank dude.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's one of his weird talents is like he more than other stars, I think can kind of disappear a little bit.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree. Oh, it's. It's a thing we love to talk about that like you could just program two different Damon series and one is Damon leading man using his movie stardom. And then Damon supporting actor is as good a career as his leading man career. The top tier years of both are unbelievable. And True Grit is such a good like snapshot of that.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean this is. That's the only. For me, the only absolute banger in this. The only banger in this era.

[Griffin Newman]

I'd agree with that.

[Stavros Halkias]

But this is next. Okay, I know, but what's his next like?

[Griffin Newman]

Well then he kind of has. Right. So then it's behind the candelabra, which he's incredible.

[Stavros Halkias]

Is a banger. Watch that with my mom came to visit New York and for some reason we watched that with her. Throw it on. We just threw on that while I'm hitting a weed pen surreptitiously way too high. And I'm like, oh, why am I.

[David Sims]

Watching this with my mother, David? I mean like Michael Doug's like, shave another 5% off sky, but I'm too.

[Stavros Halkias]

High to change it anyway.

[Griffin Newman]

Then he does Elysium, which on paper.

[David Sims]

Same is him being smart and unfortunately the movie's dog.

[Griffin Newman]

Similarly, Monuments Men. Same deal. Right. Then Interstellar, which he's unbelievable but is a secret performance.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

That's him doing the movie.

[David Sims]

That's him being a gospel.

[Stavros Halkias]

That is dead. Definitely.

[David Sims]

He's good at that.

[Griffin Newman]

Then he does the Martian.

[Stavros Halkias]

The Martian is Martian is the first one.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but that's. Yeah, that's 2015. And then he does the two movies after the Martian that felt like his. I need to get a surefire hit.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And both of them don't work. It's Jason Bourne and Great Wall are both.

[David Sims]

But Jason Bourne made a ton of money. It's just no one remembers it. Great Wall did okay that movie. He's ridiculous. And I unfortunately hurt his Feelings. And I feel really bad about it. I wrote, like, a snarky article when everyone was making fun of him, and then he, in some interview was like, I love the Atlantic and like, Ta Nehisi coats that I saw. Like, even they were going after me. And I'm like, sorry, Damon.

[Stavros Halkias]

You're like, hey, it's me. It's not any of the intellectuals.

[David Sims]

And honestly, some of them.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

But, like, I. He cares about.

[Stavros Halkias]

About this.

[David Sims]

And.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And he made the movie because. So you would make a billion dollars in China we're talking about.

[David Sims]

And he was like, I wanted to work with Zhang Yi Moon. I'm like, I get it. But you also wanted whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Martian was such a big hit. Right. And gets him another Oscar nomination.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's such, like, what's good about him.

[Griffin Newman]

Is a movie built on his.

[Stavros Halkias]

Without him.

[Griffin Newman]

Star power. All of his strengths. Right. The fact that Great Wall and Jason Bourne are the year after that tells me that, like, two years earlier, he was panicked.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Of like, I have not had a movie star hit since Born ended, and who knows what the Martian's gonna be? So here's like, a Zhangyimo, like, China co production at a time where China's taking over Hollywood. And let me go back to Bourne, and by the time the Martian comes out, it's like, oh, he's got like, yeah, two unnecessary movies coming up, which, as you said, Bourne, like, made a ton of money, but in a way that was like people showing up for jury duty, of course. And then we're like, yeah, he shouldn't have gone back.

[David Sims]

Someone gonn, My God, that's Jason Bourne. Someone said it. Great.

[Stavros Halkias]

Cool.

[David Sims]

I mean, I love him. I feel like he's in a good spot now. Like, Ford versus Ferrari boded him into his new, like, kind of like. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just the best, great kn.

[David Sims]

Kind of dad.

[Stavros Halkias]

Great.

[David Sims]

He rocks in.

[Stavros Halkias]

And listen, I am. I.

[Griffin Newman]

He rocks. He rocks in.

[Stavros Halkias]

Am I mad that no Greek people have been cast in the Odyssey? Yes. And maybe if this had happened, like, I'm pissed because I feel like maybe this had happened, maybe even two years later. I get to just be like, in the background, you know, some guy that gets killed.

[Griffin Newman]

Can there be, like, a cut up to the heavens and you're looking down like, this shit's crazy.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well, first, here's where I'm positioned for.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

The scary movie version of the Odyssey. There we go. When they do the Nolan.

[David Sims]

The.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, when they get the. When we get the band back together and they do, like, a A spoof of Nolan's movies. I get to be killed in the Odyssey. Part of it.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, Friedberg and Seltzer's Nolan movie.

[Stavros Halkias]

Let's get the Seltzers back. Yeah. Absolute.

[David Sims]

Absolutely. It is. Now that I'm looking at it, it is funny that it's like, can't just get Benny Safdie and John Leguizamo and shit. Who. I love. I love that. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

These are all great. And look at the same time. It's mythology. It's cool that it's. No one is from anywhere. Everyone. It's one of everything. But it's like. It should be like the Olympics where the home country gets one, even if they're bad at. You know what I mean?

[David Sims]

Not to be rude about Greece, though, but isn't this what Greece pulls once in a while?

[Stavros Halkias]

It's our artistic Olympics. Olympics, where it's like the home country. Even if, like, you know, even if.

[David Sims]

They did the Olympics and everyone was like, these Olympics aren't that well run. And they're like, give us a break.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. It crippled our country. It will cripple our country for a generation. We have empty stadiums instead of schools, but whatever. But every time you. You host the Olympics, you automatically qualify for every sport.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

There should be at least one Greek person in the Odyssey. You can't do the Odyssey for that one Greek guy. And it doesn't have to be me.

[David Sims]

Who are the big Greek guys in movies right now?

[Stavros Halkias]

We don't really. I mean, we don't mean. Is it me? Is this by accident? Is it me? But I mean, like, give us. Give us, like, you know, Greek. Get Nia Verdalos in there, man.

[David Sims]

Have you and Nia.

[Stavros Halkias]

We've DM a couple times. Okay. I gotta get in there. She's the. Absolutely. She's the dream Stav's world guest.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

She's a icon. I mean, still the most profitable independent romantic comedy of all time. We.

[Griffin Newman]

Believe me, we talk about profitable romantic comedy, period. For many years, it was the most profitable comedy. And the only thing that OOVERTOOK it was Hangover 2, which is.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's crazy.

[David Sims]

I mean. Yeah. I'm trying to think of, like, Greek celebs. I mean, it doesn't have to be celebs.

[Griffin Newman]

I did a little Google. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Get an art actor and get one of your favorite thing about Dog Tooth was I saw that movie.

[Stavros Halkias]

Get the cast of Dog Tooth.

[David Sims]

All of them.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Fun.

[David Sims]

Nolan's like, we're taking a break.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Let's see the dad's cock again. That's. That was more disturbing than the. The like, the siblings having sex. Like the dad's dick just hanging out soft. Watching porn. To me, that pissed me off more.

[David Sims]

Dog Tooth is one of those things where I saw it, I was like, oh, this is depraved, but this is really incredible. That's an interesting movie. And then, like, you realize you start, you know, in Greek, Greece submits it, you know, and it gets the Oscar nominated. And then, like, someone was like, they threw like, a parade in Greece for Dog Tooth because, like, it was their first Oscar nomination for foreign film in, like, decades. And I'm like, just thinking about, like, the national government being like, we love Dog Tooth. What a great movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Normal.

[Stavros Halkias]

We love.

[David Sims]

Like, we're spreading grease around the world, baby. Dog Tooth. That's what we got going on in our brains.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm a little worried that I've been able to hide my success from my Greek family, but being in a Yorgos movie, it's like, it's over, bro. He's like the king over there.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I'm doing a little Greek actor search.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sure, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Jennifer Aniston doesn't count. Elias Codius.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Costas Mandalore. David's favorite actor from the Saw franchise.

[David Sims]

That guy. Oh, God, that guy stinks up the Saw franchise so bad.

[Stavros Halkias]

I don't even know. Yeah, I don't know.

[David Sims]

In the later Saws, you know, when Saw it, you know.

[Stavros Halkias]

Guy, I'm not a later. I'm not a later song.

[David Sims]

You know, the whole problem Saw has is in Saw one, he's like, I of cancer. So by like, Saw three, he's dead. By Saw four, they're like, we'll do an autopsy. But, like, he's dead.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So by saw5, it's like his protege who's Costest Mandalore.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Stinks.

[Stavros Halkias]

Okay.

[David Sims]

And it's like three more of him.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm gonna.

[David Sims]

Look, everyone's just looking up Greek actors.

[Griffin Newman]

I know, but this is my point, is that you. You. There's not much of a battle to get to the number one spot.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, I'm trying, bro. I'm trying again. I don't know how it happened, but I'm trying. I mean, we're. This. The movie's gonna come out, and I'm so bad in it. It's like I'm never allowed to fudgeing act in anything ever. Like, they just take me off tires. It's so bad.

[Griffin Newman]

Ghost calls us deleted from IMDb and.

[David Sims]

He'S like, I replaced you in the Movie. It was a bummer.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sorry, man.

[Griffin Newman]

It's so funny that we've just identified, right, that like Damon clicked into his perfect like sort of middle age stage as movie star, which is the sort of like Ford vs Ferrari still water air. Like he's polo tucked into khaki pants. Kind of like this guy just is comfortable being just like dad bod, you know, stuff, shirt, whatever, Oppenheimer, same thing. And then it's like, right, no, next year he is playing the lead in Nolan's Oppenheimer follow up. He's Odysseus, he's cool as hell. He's gonna like have his most dominant like movie star badass film ever.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean, I am really, I'm so curious and excited because this is such a, a, it's such an insane throwback. Like, this is like, it's so star studded. It's a, it's a fucking epic. It's a. You know, it's like, I think it'll be awesome, but I'm also like, I have a hard time wrapping my head around how it will be so good. It feels like a really hard thing to fucking pull off. But I believe everyone in it. I believe in. And Nolan is the man. But I am re. It's not like I, I don't think it will fail, but I'm like, how are they going to pull this off?

[Griffin Newman]

Expectations are going to be.

[Stavros Halkias]

The expectations are going to be fucking sky.

[David Sims]

The expectations are sky high. I have no doubt that it will like deliver visually, right? That it's going to be like he's shooting in these beautiful locations on imax. It looks crazy. The production value is off the, you know, all that. The story of the Odyssey is cool and it's like episodic. So he can have all these fucking. Zendaya drops in and does some shit. Anne Hathaway's there, whatever. That's a cool idea. But like, I just don't know how he's going to do the language, you know, like, because you can do the thing that Troy did where it's like, yeah, it's like English classic British, you know, like, just do that and it's like, that's fine. But the whole magic of the, of the Odyssey, the poem is like the language. And I'm like, is he gonna try to crack that? It's not really Nolan's. I don't know, you know, strong suit exactly is like not, not dialogue.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's all gonna be Bane voice. Everyone's gonna do garbled Bane voice.

[Griffin Newman]

And, and Bane masks.

[David Sims]

Cosmo Jarvis had to drop out.

[Stavros Halkias]

Out.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So they replaced him with Logan Marshall Green. I'm like, you're just taking one Tom Hardy guy and turning him into another Tom Hardy guy.

[Griffin Newman]

To Tom Hardy.

[David Sims]

Nolan and Tom need to patch it up. Whatever happened there, whatever. They got to squash the beef. I need Hardy to make a good movie again.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And I need Nolan to, like, you know, have him play somewhere.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just like, so funny that because. Because of this beat that we have built.

[David Sims]

Watches like the Venom movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Nolan watches everything he does. Of course he watches as the Venom movies because of this beat we built for ourselves. Right. It's like when Oppenheimer just keeps going up and up and up. We're like, how the does he follow this? We've covered him years back. We think about his career a lot. And you're like, he does kind of have this oscillation between, like, him doing, like, nerdy little boy sandbox G wiz and his more prestige stuff. And a little bit of like, one for them, one for me.

[Stavros Halkias]

Me.

[Griffin Newman]

And then Oppenheimer is like a one for me. That is him going like, highbrow. That plays like a blockbuster. And you're like, so does he do like a Tenant now or does he do something even headier than Oppenheimer? We couldn't even conceive of what kind of thing he would try to do next. And when the tweet dropped that crazy out of nowhere, Christopher Nolan the Odyssey shot entirely in imax, we were like, yeah, you're right. It had to be this or the Bible. They were the only two things he could have done.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

In this position, if you're Nolan coming off of Oppenheimer, you got to do one of those.

[Stavros Halkias]

But that's the thing. It's like, this feels like you say the Bible. This feels like the fucking ten Commandments with Heston. This feels like Ben Hur. Like he. This is like some. Some shit that, like, is audacious in the way that movies haven't really been audacious, like in the 30s. It's like, how the fuck are you gonna pull off a stadium full of people, you know? And they just would do it, whatever. Now it's like we have all the technology, we have all this shit, but it's like, this is such a fundamental core text of Western civilization. So star studded. The language is hard. And by the way, the length Nolan's movies, you could argue, are too long to begin with. How f. I can't.

[Griffin Newman]

That's more so episodic. Story.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's going to be 10 hours long.

[David Sims]

What the. How do we do this? Hey, Nolan, can we trim it? Like, he'll just be like. And they're like, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. You know what? Everything you do works.

[Griffin Newman]

I think he was right that, that like the level of cachet he has right now, if he's not doing that, he's playing it safe.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

He's gotta go that far.

[Stavros Halkias]

Sure, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

What were you about to say?

[Stavros Halkias]

I was gonna say, fuck it, they made Wicked. Two fucking movies. The Odyssey is gonna be one fucking movie like that. That's crazy to me. This shit, if anything needs to be a universe, every. Every dog shit. I know there's not. I'm not saying Wicked is dog shit. I'm just saying like every idea becomes. Becomes like a fucking a universe. Like this literally is the universe of mythology. Like, this is like if anything needs to be four fucking movies, it's the Odyssey. I mean, even the movie that just came out with fucking what's his face, who's playing old Odysseus? Fucked.

[Griffin Newman]

Why am I blanking?

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm blanking.

[David Sims]

You know old Odysseus.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, they just did that. The Return with fucking fine.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a movie.

[David Sims]

Ends with a tease.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's the movie. That's like the fucking last four pages of the Odyssey is a movie, right? How the fuck is the whole Odyssey going to be one movie? So anyway, that's what I'm worried about. But now if you told me we get 12 hours of Nolan's Odyssey. I mean, I'm the happiest guy in the fucking.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll do any version of this.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm there. But anyway, like, they should at least have the kill bill treatment of. Yeah, this should be one movie, really. But we have to, for whatever reasons, break it up. But anyway, all that being said, I will be there day one in imax. I can't wait to see it. But I. I just am am interested to see how they're going to pull it off.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, True Grit's kind of another version of that where it's like this is them cashing in all their chips for something that sounds like, why would you do this? And then it's so much more successful than anything else they've done that they come off of this and it's like, great, we'll make your failed angry musician movie. Yeah, yeah, guys are invincible now.

[David Sims]

It does give them some rope to do some weirder for a while.

[Griffin Newman]

Cuz this is the One that should have been their cash in instead. It's like a guarantor.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right, right.

[David Sims]

And, like, it's crazy.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's their most successful.

[David Sims]

And it's also crazy that in 2010, America was like, yeah, yeah. This is like the kind of Christmas entertainment we're after. Like, we want this.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally. I think what I'm realizing is, for me, this is such a cultural blind spot, because just in my life, I think I was, like, so depressed and pretending I was going to take college serious. This is the year I quit standup and, like, was working really hard in college, and I didn't. I didn't see anything. That's. That's maybe also why I didn't see this shit in theaters. I like you. You guys named all these movies that came out in 2010. I'm like, I don't even fucking remember those.

[David Sims]

So you were true. What were you studying? What was your major?

[Stavros Halkias]

Dude, I was a. I was a. I was a public affair. I was in a public affairs scholarship program. And I was like, you know, just taking it serious. Taking, like, you know, welfare policy seriously. I was interning at the Maryland House of Delegates. I was like, you know, trying to lose. I was trying to get my life in order. Trying to lose weight. I was, you know, finally, I was like, I gotta take shit seriously. I gotta be a good student. I gotta get a. A girlfriend who's a nice person.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's always a tough one, finding a nice person. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And she was. She was very nice. But I feel bad because we started dating and then in the year that I was lying about who I was, like, the guy she dated doesn't exist. A guy who does his work.

[David Sims]

He's dating, like a package.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, hey, check out this package.

[Stavros Halkias]

Does all. Does all his homework. Does all, you know, does all, you know, where's it literally wears a tie, whatever. And then like a year, and I'm like, oh, can I crash at your place to do open mics and not see you? I'm gonna come home up at 3am Right? And then she's like, all right, well, you.

[Griffin Newman]

And, like, angry about my failure to locate a tag.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You want to hear me rant about this at three o' clock in the morning?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, can you and your friends from grad school come see me? Bomb. I don't know, open mic, 40 minutes away. Like, God damn, I feel so bad. But so, yes, I think I was just, like, at a cultural. Because before this, I was so. I was so into trying to figure, learn about movies, trying to do stand up, starting 18 to 20 and then 21 was. I was like, I have to fucking become a real citizen. But so, yeah, I'm kind of relearning all this, this block. And then when you start talking about the rest of it afterwards, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is when I start coming.

[Griffin Newman]

Then you reconnect.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

David. Yes, it has been said that I don't always have the healthiest diet.

[David Sims]

Oh, who's out there?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't have the best habits. I don't have the best routine. I'm not disciplined in terms of taking care of my body in a way that will sustain my lifespan. But here's one routine I stick to no matter what.

[David Sims]

What's happening?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, it's the 10am Rooster waking me from my slumber. Let me get out of my bed, make myself a cup of coffee and pour a scoop of AG1 into my shaker bottle. I cannot start my morning without these two things.

[David Sims]

You love AG1 in a way that is frighteningly genuine. I will say.

[Griffin Newman]

You won't even jokingly say, if you love it so much, why do you marry it? Because you're worried I may marry it.

[David Sims]

You may marry a pillar of green powder and just make beyond that that it's just kind of like the shaky deck of house of cards that is your, like, nervous system and like functioning, you know, immune system, digestive. All seems to now rest on the AG1 is the foundation.

[Griffin Newman]

I may be more AG1 than man now. It might be AG1 GN0.

[David Sims]

That's what we're basically just like relying on at this point. It's not just another supplement too. It's a microhabit daily microhabit that supports whole body health in one scoop.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the thing, it sets my body right for the entire day, but it also, it's how I kickstart my morning. It's how I set my clock. And if you like listening to this podcast, and I'm glad that it is continued week after week at this point, that's really thanks to AG1.

[David Sims]

So let me just ask you because this is, you know, when we do these ads, like, they have their sort of explanation of what kind of stuff it does.

[Griffin Newman]

So clinically shown to support gut health, fill in common nutrient gaps, which Lord knows my diet does not fill in most of those gaps on its own.

[David Sims]

How's gut feeling?

[Griffin Newman]

Much better. With five probiotic strains and 75 plus that means more than 75 vitamins. And minerals. AG1 next gen. That's their new updated formula. Replaces the need for a multivitamin probiotics and more. It's one stop shopping. Here's the other thing, David. They got feedback flavors.

[David Sims]

Now.

[Griffin Newman]

There used to just be one standard flavor. Oh.

[David Sims]

Now they've got citrus.

[Griffin Newman]

Citrus. You got a berry.

[David Sims]

What are you doing though?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm trying them all out.

[David Sims]

Okay, great.

[Griffin Newman]

This is what I've been doing. I'm a citrusy boy.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Love a citrus.

[Griffin Newman]

That's. That's where my, my flavor palette goes first. The tart. But I'm, I'm cycling through them. I want to try all three.

[David Sims]

I want to share something.

[Griffin Newman]

Please.

[David Sims]

I also started using.

[Griffin Newman]

There we go.

[David Sims]

He came in like an ag one on that one. I though recently turned 40 years old.

[Griffin Newman]

Congrats.

[David Sims]

Decided you know what? I need to start having a. A daily ritual of taking vitamins.

[Griffin Newman]

You woke up one morning and realized that you were a 40 year old virgin to taking AG1 every morning.

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

You hadn't tried it yet.

[David Sims]

And so far I'm really noticing such a difference. I'm just feeling better. I. I'm having more energy. My gut health is feeling better.

[Griffin Newman]

And let's say this, Ben. AG1 Next Gen is helping raise the standard with multiple gold standard clinical trials. I'm lowering my glasses all the way to the bottom of the bridge of my nose now.

[David Sims]

Is this Chuck Schumer?

[Griffin Newman]

In an industry where not everyone invests heavily in research, they go to great lengths to continually invest in rigorous peer reviewed clinic clinical trials. It's. It's less than $3 per day with the subscription and you're getting more than $7 worth of daily nutritional support. That way replaces the need for taking multiple different supplements.

[David Sims]

Four bucks a day on nutrition right there. That's the math.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the. That's the bonus. That's the profit you're making.

[David Sims]

So head to drink ag1.com check to get a free welcome kit including a bottle of vitamin d and free AG1 travel packs when you first subscribe. That's drinkag1.com check. Would this movie be as big a hit today? Griff?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. It's another thing. And we should talk a little more about the. Yeah, let me say a lot more about the meat of the movie itself. But David glanced at the clock.

[Stavros Halkias]

I don't. I think we should know about Watson more.

[David Sims]

What's up with that guy? It does feel like Harry is the first voice of Sherlock Holmes.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm finding oh, nice. Hell yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

There will be these types of movies every couple of years, right. Where like everyone points to it and goes, see, there's an underserved audience. You're not making movies for Red State America. You're not making movies for older men. Right. There's this audience that will come out if you give them what they want. But anytime anyone tries to replicate it, it doesn't work. Right. So there are the things like Passion of the Christ and American Sniper and Sound of Freedom and True Grit that feel like weird one offs where for whatever moment, for whatever reason, an entire audience was just like, actually we've been waiting for this. That supercharged what was already there. People who have kind of stopped going to the theaters show up in droves for this. It's not like there were the entire audience for this. But clearly part of this movie doing so well was like 80 year old John Wayne fans being like, I think so. I think it has to be.

[Stavros Halkias]

I don't know, man. I think of all the movies you just said, True Grit obviously clears those movies. They're so, so much better.

[Griffin Newman]

So much better.

[Stavros Halkias]

And. But you're right, maybe there was some element to that, but I just think maybe it was the kind of thing of like all the Cohen brought. Like maybe it is just. Even though they had two movies between this and no country for Old Men, like, I don't know, I just feel like it was, it was that it was.

[Griffin Newman]

I think there was another thing.

[Stavros Halkias]

But maybe it's Western. Maybe it is western, right? Maybe that's.

[Griffin Newman]

And then being like we're doing a classical Western, right? Yeah. And this movie is so much more classical than any other film they've made. The other thing is that like the Christmas box office is insane. There is like this 10 day corridor when basically everyone's off from work and school and families are together and it's a PG13 movie. It's a PG13 movie. And like December and we'll do the.

[David Sims]

Box Office game, the competition January 1st.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, this is what I was going to say. That corridor, if you can get a movie in there, that sort of becomes the default. I guess we all go see this like every day between December 20th and January 5th kind of plays like a Friday. You just have like a run of Fridays. And the two big movies that people thought were going to be the big blockbusters that Christmas were little Fockers, which kind of disappointed.

[Stavros Halkias]

And I did see that in theater. So maybe I was.

[Griffin Newman]

You were.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's the era of my life. I was in I was like, I'm a rat. Regular guy. Me and my girlfriend are going to see Little Fockers.

[David Sims]

We're going to, like, Ruby Tuesday.

[Stavros Halkias]

Absolutely, dude. We're going to Ruby Tuesdays.

[Griffin Newman]

Meet the Fockers that come out in this exact slot six years earlier.

[David Sims]

It was humongous, did fine, but it was not a cultural game changer.

[Griffin Newman]

Wildly outgrows it. And there was that thing where, like, Fockers opened bigger the first weekend, and then True Grits overtook the second weekend and stuck. The other movie that everyone thought was gonna kind of run the table at.

[David Sims]

The end of the year, giving away the box office, but I have to.

[Griffin Newman]

Do it, was Tron Legacy. Yeah.

[David Sims]

This is the weirdest. Jeff Bridges.

[Griffin Newman]

He wins his Oscar March 2010. Right? And then I remember December 2010, he hosts SNL. And he's like, hey, man, I got Tron Legacy and True Grit. And it was like, oh, he's got a big Legacy blockbuster and he's got his, like, art House Cohen movie. And then, like, True Grit and Tron Legacy end up at the exact same number since Tron Legacy is seen as a disappointment, and True Grit is seen as a sincerity. But in both cases, like, Tron opens really big, little Fockers opens big, and then both of them drop off, and True Grit just stays right. And just kind of holds for weeks.

[Stavros Halkias]

And that's the. It sucks that a good movie needs so many things working in its favor to just do well. But I think it. Maybe it's as simple as that. Maybe it's not the, like. Because, you know, the, like, they have a cult following built in. Maybe it's as simple as the two things it's up against on Christmas kind of stuff suck.

[Griffin Newman]

And here's.

[Stavros Halkias]

Even though they see they. And actually they suck in a way that's important, because they suck in a way that gets people thinking about going to the movies. And they're like, that kind of was bad.

[Griffin Newman]

I was for this. Or I liked the old one. I heard this one isn't great. And then suddenly there's a movie that quietly plays well for grandpa and granddaughter.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And everyone in between.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right, right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I do think in the name value of it, but, yeah, I don't know. I just, like, I. I'm always kind of, like, heartened by how successful this movie is when I watch it. And I'm like, it's so deliberately paced. It's so thoughtful. It's so verbal. You know, it is like a movie that, like, doesn't.

[David Sims]

It's not Action packed. It has stuff, but it's mostly walking around.

[Griffin Newman]

But you start the movie, I mean, it takes like 15 minutes maybe before Rooster enters.

[David Sims]

Right. You got the slow ramp up of her explaining who she is, her being a little.

[Griffin Newman]

Her adult narration, which is from the book that it's from. Framed by the adult version at the beginning and the end.

[Stavros Halkias]

But you know what's funny? When you say it's not action packed, you're never. Obviously, you're never bored. But it's like the way you. When you said it's rated PG13, that kind of shocked me. When you say it's not action packed, that kind of even shocks me a little bit because so much shit is happening. And she is. Again, this performance is so electric that it almost feels like action movie scene. Her bartering feels like a. It's a fight scene, essentially. You know what I mean?

[Griffin Newman]

That's the magic, though, that.

[David Sims]

Right. Her bartering early on, though, you're just like, I'm all in on this girl. All my chips are on. I want her to.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's the magic that every great Scorsese movie has where he's just like. For me, it's just identifying the tension in every single scene. So every scene when you're watching it feels like the best scene you've ever seen in a movie.

[Stavros Halkias]

There's some. There's stakes to every scene.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. That are like internal and that like, cumulatively build to a greater whole.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean, Leef showing up in her bedroom is so weird and up. I mean, and it's like, this is.

[David Sims]

What she has to deal with. And she knows it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Exactly. She's not shaken. Like, that's nuts.

[David Sims]

She sleep with a grandma, number one.

[Stavros Halkias]

Which, by the way, comedically hysterical. The cuts back to her sleeping with the grandma after she tries to rent a room. She's like, oh, it's okay. Yeah, you can sleep with granny. Whatever. The so. So funny.

[David Sims]

And then. Right. Has to deal with this stranger coming in a room, harassing her, being mean and sort of threatening to basically cut in on her too. Like, she's like. She's on a mission and he's going to mess it up. The beef keeps messing up their mission.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And also, I kind of doesn't need.

[David Sims]

You half the time.

[Griffin Newman]

Three times.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He has three different returns.

[David Sims]

Yeah, they added some. The. In the book, he doesn't depart from them as much. I think they just thought it was like. It gives the movie a bit.

[Stavros Halkias]

I think it works. Yeah. Yeah, I think it definitely works. But even just Weird shit happen. The bear guy, you know, where there might have been a lull. You get that guy to just mesmerize you. And then again, that scene where they come on. They come upon the, like, guys where it's like, what's his face? Gleason.

[Griffin Newman]

Would it surprise you to hear this is the only Con Brothers movie I've ever auditioned for. Is the guy who gets shot in the leg like a simpurtin coward?

[Stavros Halkias]

That's fucking hilarious.

[David Sims]

You want to crush that scene. It is cool that it's Domino Gleeson like that. You're like, oh, shit. And I. I always forget that it's him. And I'm like, wait. Because he's. He looks like. So you're kind of like, is that the only.

[Stavros Halkias]

The only cool parts of the original were that that part is played by Dennis Hopper. Dennis Hopper. And that.

[David Sims]

Who is like, a hellraiser.

[Griffin Newman]

Robert Dal is Barry Pepper.

[Stavros Halkias]

So that's the. Those are the only two cool parts.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also. It's not just that it's cool and.

[David Sims]

Famously, Dal was a huge pain in the ass on.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. It's like Hopper and Dal are, like, starting the new Hollywood movement and different acting styles, and they're in a far more modern film than everyone else, for sure. It's like, that looks like a bad gunshot you got there.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Hopper's the only one. Even Duvall's performance. Hopper's the one where I'm like, this is. He's actually good in it. And he's the one that would fully. You could swap him and fucking Gleason and. And it kind of makes sense.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's part of what's interesting is it almost is a structure like the Odyssey, where there is a clear end goal in sight. But from the beginning, everyone's telling her this just might not be possible. No one's able to find this guy. This guy's unimportant. You should just drop it. Right. She's got three people, including herself, on this case. And, like, they're not making progress. And a lot of the scenes in this movie are, like, dead ends. They keep moving, like, geographically forward. Right. They're moving further and further towards Comanche territory.

[David Sims]

Choctaw.

[Griffin Newman]

Choctaw. But yes, there's this feeling of, like, this might be in vain. And also these weird, like, sort of side quests that don't necessarily get them any closer to where they want to go. And then they do just stumble onto the guy.

[David Sims]

You are not Le Brief.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

One of the best. Two of the funniest lines to me. And I was like, cackling. And my wife was like, are you all right? Like is. One is, you are not le. And the other is, I do not know this man. After she cuts down the guy, which is like such an anti climax, like, maybe.

[Stavros Halkias]

I know.

[David Sims]

Then he's like, no, let's move on.

[Stavros Halkias]

Another great one. That's not an action scene. But you're. You're like, she's going to die. You're like, someone's going to find. Yeah. So much tension. A little. A little. There will be bloody. Where it's like, even where nothing's happening. You're like, whoa, Something up is right around the bend.

[David Sims]

It's like they're on Venus. Like, they're just in this alien landscape. Like, what is this place? Like, you know? And like, when the first time I watched the first couple times, you're kind of like, yeah, they have a goal. They're going towards whatever. After a while, you're like, they're just in the middle of nowhere. And there's just like. It's basically. The map is basically like, there's a river, right? Like, go do that. Like, that's kind of it. And like, if they get lost or someone breaks their leg or whatever, you're kind of just screwed. Like, all this just feels so dangerous the more you watch it. And, like, you real. Like when. So when Rooster says, like, it. What, What, What? What's the thing he says over and over again? I. I withdraw. It's not that, but what's his. He has like a catchphrase that he.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the thing. It's hard to quote this movie because the language is so precise that you can't paraphrase it. Yeah.

[David Sims]

You know, that's him being basically like. I had one play, which was. I go to my guys, I sniff out if these guys have been around, and then I get the drop on them in classic Rooster way, I shoot them from far away and then maybe I get closer and shoot the rest.

[Griffin Newman]

And if they don't have info, then. I don't know, I got spooked.

[David Sims]

I mean, they got spooked by the beef. Now I'm out of idea. Like, that was my one idea. I'd like to now return to my rope bed and my, like, whisk.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, yes, yes.

[David Sims]

And you know, in the movie, it's a little bit like, oh, this is the. You know, this is the dip before our triumphant third act. Fine. But as you watch it again and again, you're like, no, yeah, he's Just like, this is the extent of being a good tracker.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. And I had the same thought of, like, on the rewatch, this time being like, oh, yeah, you know, oh, yeah, here we go. The darkness before the dawn bullshit. But then you're like, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

Know what?

[Stavros Halkias]

This is fully earned. This guy's a fucking drunk. And we've all been there, right? Where it's. I've been there. Where it's like, you know, you've been trying to go against your nature, and that's a lot of this here. Right? It's like he's like he doesn't want to do. From the beginning. He doesn't want to do this. She convinces him. Part of it is about money, of course, but it's like he still is doing something he doesn't really want to do. And then. And you. You give into your vices, and it's like, you know what?

[Griffin Newman]

Fuck.

[Stavros Halkias]

Fuck this. I am it. I really am a piece of shit. I'm an idiot for thinking I could be better. I'm gonna this now. He's not made me better. I am now worse. I'm the kind of guy who quits on a fucking little girl. I don't give a fuck. I'm drunk. That feels very real to me.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And then LaBeouf essentially being too much of a fucking pussy to do it also feels real to me because it's like, this is your time to shine, Labif. This is it. And it's like, oh, no. He's a fucking killer coward. He's a piece of. And it was just like, yeah. These. They would just aband. These are. This is the way these two guys would abandon this girl.

[Griffin Newman]

Damon and Bridges both identify what the real versions of these guys would be. Not the movie archetype versions of them.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is what's really smart, where you're like, these are guys who fashion themselves characters.

[David Sims]

A bow out, bow out. He just like, 50 times a bow out out.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like. Like it. Like it's him saying, I declare bankruptcy.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know what I mean?

[David Sims]

Where he's like, I'm done. You find your own way.

[Griffin Newman]

But, like, LeBeef is all, like, sort of conscious, forced iconography, right? That he is playing the role and talking the talk of a Texas lawman. And then cog burns the opposite way, where you're just like, him having an eye patch isn't cool.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not Snake Plissken.

[Stavros Halkias]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like, this guy's broken, right? Like, this guy's half of his body doesn't work, of course.

[Stavros Halkias]

Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, he's like a beaten car.

[David Sims]

That's why I like that in the cornbread shooting scene, he does get a couple shots off. And he also falls on his face one time and, like, gets tangled up in his force one time. You're like, balance. Yeah. This guy's like a, you know, D and D character where it's like, you know, he could dice roll kind of a joke.

[Griffin Newman]

But he's not. Like, he also is legit in other ways.

[David Sims]

And one way he's legit is that he's happy to just shoot someone's face off.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[David Sims]

He's not going to.

[Stavros Halkias]

No qualms whatsoever.

[David Sims]

Worried about that. And you do hear that.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He fought with Quantrill during, like, Bleeding Kansas. This is all, like, background that you don't have to think about that hard. And he's so unintelligible that the first time I saw the movie, I didn't know what he was talking about for half the movie. Like, all of his monologues about New Mexico, I'm like, I don't know what he's saying. It's just funny. But, like, he fought with Quantrill, who is, like, a terrorist, like, who's just going around Bleeding Kansas, like, doing insane shit. And it was like, yeah, he was like, a hardened, crazy person. And that part of history is interesting. It's what Ride with the Devil is about. Remember, we covered it long ago.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And, like, Damon Labif is like, this other, like, rooster's basically, like, I just need to keep going further and further away from civilization to do my shit. Lebeef is like, I'm from Texas. Like, we're proud. Like, this is a nation. Like, you know, I'm a Texas Ranger. I have a badge. I'm proud of my badge. Rooster's like, I like my badge because it means I can legally steal whiskey.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right, Right, right, right. And I'm a criminal. I'm a criminal with a badge. Is R. Yeah.

[David Sims]

He's like, I'm an officer of the court. Some gave me this badge. It means, I can take your whiskey. Like, and that has the force of law.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, the other. I mean, the part of this film that gets me so much emotionally by the end is that, like, I think this is a very fascinating, precocious child movie. Right. And that the magic trick of her performance is that it doesn't feel like a kid trying to play a girl grown up. And that every scene, the innate tension is her being able to convince someone that she knows what she's talking about. As you said, it's why it helps to not see the father, that you're getting the sense to some degree that.

[David Sims]

Tableau right at the start, the corpse.

[Griffin Newman]

You see his corpse, right? But you, you assume that she must be modeling behavior off of her father, that she must have learned things off of him, and that people at first interact with her as if like, oh, this is cute. This is a little girl who's memorized phrases that she's hear heard cowman say before for and she can like parrot them back. Well, but it's like in her actions and her consistency and in her quickness, she shows to people like, oh, I guess I actually do have to treat her like a grown up because she's proving that she actually does know what she's talking about and can walk the walk. Right. And where this movie gets to ultimately is by her being treated like a grown up when she was a child and being validated in that way and then having this insane experience. She basically is frozen Amber, for the rest of her, her life. Like the, the sadness of the end of this movie is that you're just sort of like, well, she's just, she never grows past this. It's almost like that thing of people who get famous too young and then you're like frozen at 15 because that's when you became a superstar. It's like the mix of like the highs and the lows of what she experiences in this week of her life of being treated as an adult and then getting exposed to all of this is like she's just stuck there, there forever. And so everything that's kind of like funny and charming about this, like hard talking coming out of a 12 year old, when you see it, Elizabeth Marvel as a woman in her 40s at the end, you're just sort of like, wow, this woman's intense.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But she's talking the exact same way she has talked in the beginning.

[David Sims]

I mean also, we got to point out at this time women didn't really have freedom.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct.

[Stavros Halkias]

Totally.

[David Sims]

So this is a, maybe an impactful moment where she actually really got to a taste of it and there is kind of no going back for her.

[Griffin Newman]

But then in the future, right, she's.

[David Sims]

You know, she's gonna get some husband who like tell of the ab Man. How many beans are in this movie? We haven't even talked about the beans.

[Stavros Halkias]

God.

[David Sims]

What's, what's the thing, the hominy thing that they have.

[Stavros Halkias]

They're making for eight or whatever, right?

[David Sims]

Where he's like, I like a big breakfast. It's like this, like, tanker.

[Griffin Newman]

You know what's one of my favorite pieces of business in this movie? That he has the pack of tobacco with the string on it, almost like it's a tea bag. So he holds that in his teeth while he makes the. Like, the roll.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Another tiny detail I love when the. The lady offers to give her a flower sack for 5 cents to. To carry the gun. Like, that's what I think the Wild west is. Or like the sort of semi wild west is like, everyone is basically always like, horse trading. Like, every item is usable. It is like a video game where it's like, you pick a flower and you're like, I could probably do something with this. Exactly. Like, this has got to go in my sack satchel. Like, everything's got to be used because, like, it's not. There's nothing. You know, you want to, like, get something from the East. It's going to take like, two months.

[Stavros Halkias]

Of course.

[David Sims]

Even a rotting corpse. Yeah, well, that. That guy's like, I got the teeth, which is kind of my thing. If you want the rest.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, I'll trade him back. I'm not gonna. It. You guys want to it. Give me a quarter.

[Griffin Newman]

You know what I mean?

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, that's.

[David Sims]

If you want me to watch you bit. That's too core. That's two bits. No, I just love that guy also.

[Stavros Halkias]

Incredible guy.

[David Sims]

I mean, the best. Like, where they're like, it's cold. And he's like, yeah, well, I have my bear thing. It's like, yeah, that's unspoken. We didn't need to get the purpose of the bear.

[Griffin Newman]

I also like that he there. I. I feel like they're so good at knowing when to do this. It's the Cohen tone management thing. But that's the one scene where they kind of cross crank up the broad comedy of, like, what if this guy just, like, sounds like a King of the Hill character? Can we get away with two minutes? The guy being like, I'm the bear, man.

[Stavros Halkias]

But, dude, it's you're. But that's the Cohen. It is the Cohen magic. Because it's not only broad comedy, but it's also, like, mystical. It's the most. It feels like Dungeons and Dragons 100%. Who the fuck. Because at first you're like, are they. Is this guy a fucking zombie? Is a bear going to kill them?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

Then is some bear wizard going to kill them? Then it's like, oh, it's the funniest. Guy you've ever seen in your. He's actually so nice. Nice and helpful.

[David Sims]

He's like, yeah, that house over there won't be used right now. He won't mind much if you, you know, toddle over the river.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. The key to a great Cohen's performance is like, them being like, you know, it'd be really funny if a guy sounded like this.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Or if like a killer had a Dorothy Hamill haircut. Right. And then they hire the person. They're like, your job is to play this as seriously as possible, but I'm giving you something stupid to do.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's a voice, here's a costume, here's a look, here's a character. Futuristic. But then like, try to actually ground it as if it's a real guy.

[David Sims]

I think about every guy in this movie. Like the guy who runs the. The bridge, you know, the. The damn thing. Like that's the guy's job. The lawyer.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like the facial hair in this movie. They're only form their lives are to are torture and their only forms of expression are weird facial hair. That's all they have is. It's so many mustaches and sideburns and like shapes you wouldn't even consider.

[David Sims]

Consider.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's crazy.

[David Sims]

That lawyer is so good. That's what I would be, right. Like if you like, you know, because like I watch Deadwood, right? Which is like the best show ever. And Deadwood is like 80 of people are basically like, well, I'm into like whoring, drinking, gambling. And it's like, that's what I do out here. But Soul Star is the guy who's like, these people need hammers. I'm gonna sell them hammers. Like there's a couple guys who are like, I'm just gonna go all the way out there and have a shop.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right?

[David Sims]

And I would be the guy who's like, Well, I talk 10% better than everyone else, so I guess I'll be a trixie lawyer. You know, like that'll be my job. Cuz that guy's rocking it.

[Stavros Halkias]

He is.

[David Sims]

He's like, how many steps are we talking about? He's out foxing Rooster by the end.

[Griffin Newman]

It's pretty unshowy in its craft outside of just like, obviously, you know, the production design, the costumes and everything just being immaculate. Right. But you're introduced to Rooster. You have her knocking on the ouse first. Or is that after the courtroom?

[David Sims]

Yeah, that's the thing. We have a, a minute of Rooster before all the other stuff happens.

[Griffin Newman]

Right behind A closed door while taking a.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's another. Hilarious.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, absolutely.

[David Sims]

You think rooster spends, like, 90 minutes in there, right? Like, that he doesn't, like, just, like, take care of business quickly?

[Griffin Newman]

No, I think, like, he's playing emoji century.

[David Sims]

We're, like, a really intense experience he's having.

[Griffin Newman]

Papa. Executive privilege.

[Stavros Halkias]

Think about the types of hemorrhoids Rooster has. Like, right?

[David Sims]

He eats, like, one fruit a year.

[Stavros Halkias]

Crazy how fucked up his. His ass. Like, we're talking about a baboon's ass. This is a man who's had nothing but whiskey and beans for 40 years.

[David Sims]

He eats whiskey and beans. Occasionally. He'll get, I think, what they call back then a steak, which was, like, some, like, crispy piece of beef, right, that they, like, destroyed in a cast iron pan. And, like, more whiskey, more beans.

[Stavros Halkias]

That fiber.

[David Sims]

I think beans are why people were alive. Beans, actually.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[David Sims]

They do enough for us that the.

[Griffin Newman]

More you eat, the more corn bread. That's what I've.

[David Sims]

Cornbread, peppers.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe just raw peppers.

[David Sims]

I don't know what else. What. What was People.

[Stavros Halkias]

Not a lot of greens. No.

[Griffin Newman]

Stavi. My. My dad, when we were growing up, would wake my brother and I up and then go. And now I'm having pop Executive privilege time. You guys just got to be ready to go in an hour.

[Stavros Halkias]

Awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

And he had boxers with a bunch of paper towels stuffed in the back.

[Stavros Halkias]

Hell, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Four newspapers under his arm. Two mugs of coffee. Goes into the bathroom, closes the door. An hour later, he comes out. He goes, it's time for school.

[David Sims]

Two mugs of coffee is a move. But he like, I'm not coming out to refill news.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? He's carrying, like, 15 inches of news under his arm. And the two mugs and just go. You guys just figure it out for the next hour. Like, that's how Rooster Cogburn takes a. I'm addicted, Dad.

[David Sims]

I can go, you know, into the bathroom with my phone.

[Griffin Newman]

Executive privilege.

[David Sims]

And I can, like, load up the Wikipedia page for fire and read it.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know what I mean?

[David Sims]

Like, I have too many things at my. It's too easy for me. Back in the day, you needed, like. Yeah, like, Newsweek.

[Stavros Halkias]

The thing about. And here's the thing. Why Rooster? It's. There's nothing. It's just. He is just that long. That's. It's just his body is that.

[Griffin Newman]

You don't think he's reading, like, a Tijuana Bible or something?

[Stavros Halkias]

No, there's no. It is him versus. Versus the outhouse. And it smells bad. He doesn't want to be there, but he's trying to get done as fast as possible.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's taking 40 minutes because that's just how it is.

[Griffin Newman]

This is one of those movies. It's one of those movies where I think about how bad every character smells.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. You're just like, this would be the stinkiest.

[Stavros Halkias]

And that's another reason why you don't think about it not not being 13. Like, it feels rated R. Because it's gross. Because they look gross. There's a sheen to all them.

[Griffin Newman]

They all smell like they're all sweaty.

[Stavros Halkias]

The only person who's sort of clean is Maddie, I guess.

[David Sims]

Yes. You know, Maddie is basically put together.

[Griffin Newman]

And like, does he have some like, old cowboy.

[David Sims]

He's got some pomade in his hair or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Is he a Dapper Dan man?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got the cow lick. Of course.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But like, you know, one of the most touching little moments is when she puts the newspaper in the hat. Like she knows she has to look the part.

[Stavros Halkias]

The only time she's literally a cute little kid.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Stavros Halkias]

Is when the hat goes under her eyes. It's adorable. And then. But then she stuffs it in. She's like. And now she's back to being the character we've known the whole time.

[David Sims]

And she looks like some Cormac McCarthy character. Like that where it's like, oh, who's that? And it's like, oh, yeah. They call her like the cactus. And it's like some 14 year old who like takes people's faces, you know, like she could. She's got like this stony, intense face. But then I love the little moments when she realizes at the campfire that Labifa Rooster are about to fight. And she's like trying to cheer everybody up.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[David Sims]

I'll do all the parts.

[Griffin Newman]

She starts to become like the child trying to stop her parents from fighting. And she understands that the only thing that unifies these two guys is they don't like the other one being mean to her. Yes.

[David Sims]

And like, this movie is bad if she is just autistic. Right? Like, if she's just like a weird robot girl or whatever, you know, like, then it's like, that's fine. But like, no, she's a kid. There's bits of kid in her, like. Of like whimsy.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, there's innocence.

[Griffin Newman]

The movie makes you as a viewer do the same calculation that every character who meets her is doing of like, is it possible that she's for real?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, for sure.

[Griffin Newman]

You know you're not calling bullshit on her, but you're. You're actually going. She might actually actually.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Be what she's saying she is.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

Which isn't even her framing herself as a wonderkin. It's just. I get it. You don't have to talk down to me. I can handle this.

[David Sims]

But. Yeah. Okay. So what are some other. You know, that we talked about, the taking. Matthews with the trial, keeps kicking the kids off the porch. It's just a fun little moment. It seems like he's done it a million.

[Stavros Halkias]

They clearly have a rapport. Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I need to just call him out by name because I've misattributed so many times. Leon Russom is the sheriff who recommends the three trackers and says he likes.

[David Sims]

To pull the cork.

[Griffin Newman]

And says he likes to pull the cork. He's in Lebowski briefly.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He's in Star Trek the Undiscovered country as chief in command. I don't remember what that part is, but it is just my favorite chunk of dialogue where she says, who's the best marshal? And he takes a pause, and he goes, I'll have to weigh that. And the decision to just be like. Let me actually think about this before I say it. And then it's, William Waters is the best tracker. He's half comman. It's something to see him cut for sign. And he's playing it like he's like, in his. Troy the movie in his mind, being.

[David Sims]

Like, this guy's got the tracking skills. Rooster's the killer.

[Griffin Newman]

Blanca's a big green guy, and he's got electric powers. You got to hit wild D stretches really far.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

The meanest is Rooster Cogburn. He's a pitiless man, double tough, and fear don't enter into his thinking. Loves to pull a cork. He's moving on, right? The best is probably LT Quinn. He's like, you know what? Here's the answer. I've landed on it.

[David Sims]

But then he.

[Griffin Newman]

He brings his prisoners in alive. Now, he might let one slip by now and again, but he believes that even the worst of men is entitled to a fair shake. And without missing a beat, she says, where can I find this Rooster?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

She's like, not interested.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just pumping my fist. That whole exchange, everything that's happening.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So, yeah, like, she gets. All right. Like, she gets Rooster on the. I'm just trying to think of stuff. I'm going through the plot, trying to think of stuff. We haven't. Stuff that happens.

[Stavros Halkias]

Stuff that happens in the movie.

[David Sims]

You know, I talked about the scene where she kind of wins them over by fording the river.

[Stavros Halkias]

Awesome stunt. Looks like she literally did that.

[David Sims]

Yeah. How did they. How do you make a horse look tired at the end when the horse is, like, dying and you're like, that horse is dead? Like, how do you, like, fake a horse being tired? You don't know. I don't know. Horses are crazy. That's another reason that, by the way, I want to live.

[Stavros Halkias]

The actual reason ketamine exists. Like, I know, right?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

We found cooler stuff for it, but.

[David Sims]

It'S not for billionaires. That's why every basically, like, starting with, I don't know, the 1850s or whatever, I basically want to live in New York if I live in this time, because I'm like, I need railroads, and I'm not going to learn to ride a horse and then, like, feed the horse and like, well, there's horse in eight.

[Stavros Halkias]

You Even. New York is. That's.

[David Sims]

That's what they had horses.

[Stavros Halkias]

The brown. That's why brownstones have stairs.

[David Sims]

So you wouldn't.

[Stavros Halkias]

You weren't around. Right, Right.

[David Sims]

You're a little bit above the. That does make sense. That's the funniest thing about the Gilded Age. My favorite, like, gas leak show in the world, like, is, like, everyone in it is clean. And I'm like, they'd be dirty. It's a dirty place. It's the 19th century.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Like, there's no running, you know, there's no flush toilets.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. You're. You're clean for two hours, two hours a week. You're clean if you're rich.

[David Sims]

If you're rich, you can't, like, go home and be like, I'm gonna take a shower. Like, no, no, that's not gonna happen. You want to take a bath? Eight people have to, like, start getting ready.

[Griffin Newman]

I was talking to my girlfriend about how much of a nightmare Burning man seems to me.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And even, like, any music festival as well, where I'm just like, my two favorite things in the world are sleeping in a bed with the air conditioning blaring.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And taking the longest shits and showers in the world. That's all I care about.

[Stavros Halkias]

Absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

A bedroom that's cold and a bathroom that's ready to go.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Day three at a music festival.

[Stavros Halkias]

It.

[David Sims]

The Porta Pot.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not doing it rough, but it's my biggest thought when I watch this movie is I'm just like, oh, my God. They don't even have, like, tempur Pedic mattresses.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. I mean, yeah. See the thing. Like, what's Rooster's back looking like? Like, dude, I. I'm fat as. And, like, if I sleep on the. The wrong hotel mattress, I'm ruined for.

[David Sims]

What you just said is my life right now. Every morning I wake up, and I'm like, why am I in excruciating pain? And it's like, because you didn't move your body for a while, and you're, like, tall and large.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Like, he's. When he's sleeping in that rope bed up off whiskey, I'm like, this is crazy.

[David Sims]

He's always drunk, right? Like, that's how he deals.

[Griffin Newman]

That makes the balancing act of it even more impressive that he's staying in there.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He is aggressive. He refers to it as a rope bed himself. It's not like we're being rude.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, no, no, no.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, we're not being rude.

[Griffin Newman]

He sleeps on a bunch of ropes.

[Stavros Halkias]

And that's the thing about Rooster as a character. It's like, what? His greatness is eroding every second. Like, he probably was a specimen that could ride forever, and he could. The cornbread shot. If you catch him 30 years ago, he's nailing all those. Like, that's the thing about him, is that he is the fucking rem. Remnants of a Terminator.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, when he's one of those terrorists or whatever.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's a machine, but he's a piece of. But it's like. And, yeah, he is. You're catching him at, like, you know, this is the. The last little bit of this guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Being a legend, like, living in a world this tough. Right. It's gonna break you down one way or another. Right. You become evil. You kind of become broken and crazy like this, you know? Or you become, like, LaBeouf, and you just sort of try to, like, like, put your head above all of it and not really engage with it. But. Yeah, this is a guy who's just, like, lived this life for so long that has kind of taken everything from inside of him, which makes his reveal gradually that he cares about her. So touching to me, because this guy almost thinks he doesn't have emotions anymore.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, like, it's like, well, I just lost those back in the trail.

[Stavros Halkias]

10 years ago for sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And maybe he has. I mean, maybe he. Yeah, he doesn't until he finds her, and then in terms of shit that just happened, it's like, so, you know, we've covered the little fucking the Shaq, which is one of my favorite scenes. And then LaBeouf getting Absolutely. Got just not even able to get one. Like what did he think was going to happen?

[David Sims]

Getting dragged. And then like the humiliation of Rooster being like, should I take your tongue out?

[Stavros Halkias]

Those dirty ass fingers we were just talking about. Completely in his mouth.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

Dangling away is already up tongue. It's brutal.

[Griffin Newman]

He leaves for the first time after the first night. Right? So there's. They have virus fighting. And then the morning. The next. The argument about whether or not he can shoot.

[Stavros Halkias]

He leaves for the first time as soon as she forged the river.

[David Sims]

Right. He's like, I'm out of here.

[Griffin Newman]

They do the campfire that night, don't they?

[David Sims]

I guess so. They do do a campfire.

[Griffin Newman]

And then the next morning is when they do the shooting thing. And then he leaves. He's like, I just hate this guy. I'm sorry. I wish you all the best. Then, right? The. The bear man. The body hanging from the tree. The cabin with Donald Gleason. All that happens without LaBeouf.

[David Sims]

Right? And then he interrupts there. Like he plan up. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then comes out of it. It's so much worse for wear.

[David Sims]

And then they're like. I guess we. They feel bad. They're like. They don't. They're like, okay, we have to like drag you around now.

[Stavros Halkias]

And she feels that's. That's the moment where she starts to show some like.

[David Sims]

Because she's like. He. He like stood him down. He was brave. Yeah, exactly like he was going to credit right on the. What's Ned Pepper?

[Griffin Newman]

Another incredible line is it astonishes me that Mr. Leuff has been shot, trampled, and nearly bitten his tongue off. And yet not only does he continue to talk, but he spills the banks of English.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Which just anytime Rooster says anything that eloquent, it's so much funnier.

[David Sims]

He takes like 4.4min to say a lie. So anyway, and then yeah, we are kind of like. I guess the. The animosity kind of builds up again and we lead to the. Not the. The next big fight. The I.

[Stavros Halkias]

And which. Which the funny thing is they were right. They were just a day early because this whole plan. He's like, they're prop. My only hunches. They're going to the claim. They're coming claim. And they just beat them there.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Stavros Halkias]

Cuz they're.

[David Sims]

They literally wake up, do show up.

[Stavros Halkias]

If they don't have that fight. They're fully. And by the way. If. If he doesn't get drunk, probably there's no big deal. Right. Because the.

[Griffin Newman]

The whole.

[David Sims]

They would just show up.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, all right, let's get a night's rest.

[David Sims]

And then we got the drop on these guys.

[Stavros Halkias]

Exactly. Exactly.

[David Sims]

And instead Maddie finds Brolin. What's bro? Tom Cheney. Yep. Shoots him.

[Stavros Halkias]

Awesome. I love sick. Right.

[David Sims]

Both times she fires a gun. She does get knocked on her ass, which is what happened would happen to me if I fired a gun. Because that is what happens. And, you know, guns back then sucked. Like, it's shooting, like, a dumb metal ball at you. It hurts. It doesn't necessarily, like, kill you. And he's just like, my life sucks. I hate you. But he grabs her and, like, she's the hostage. And then you've got this, like, fantastic 10 minutes of Barry Pepper with the.

[Griffin Newman]

Crazy teeth, a little pepper on the dish.

[David Sims]

Just being an absolute goblin, looking like the Crypt Keeper. And I just love it.

[Stavros Halkias]

Is the gang called the Pepper Gang.

[David Sims]

The Pepper Gang.

[Stavros Halkias]

Hysterical. And he's playing the Pepper Gang.

[David Sims]

I do like that he has the weird kind of samurai thing with Rooster.

[Stavros Halkias]

Absolutely.

[David Sims]

Like, where he's like, yeah, yeah, I'm not going to kill a girl. I'm not like a weirdo. I'm just like a bandit. I like, steal shit and have money.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, no, it's true. It's like, it's the most. You kind of get the rooster. Roosters, like, I've. We've come across each other as guys. We've each been on. You know, there's probably been a time where Pepper had a badge and I didn't have a badge. He was technically the sheriff and I was technically the criminal. Like, they clearly have, like, this long, weird history. And yes, that. That samurai type honor is pretty.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also. It's the stuff that Cheney doesn't have. Right. Like, she's so angry at the idea of Cheney stealing her father, and yet it's like his death was incidental. It didn't mean anything. This guy's got no strategy in his head.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got no internal belief system. He's just like some idiot with a gun. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, if her dad had done something, something that warranted, made some kind of mortal insult to a guy, and the guy shot him in a duel, she'd be sad, but she wouldn't try and find him. She would be like, you know, that's life.

[Griffin Newman]

The fact that it's meaningless is what gets her. And the fact that when she meets him, it provides no answers or clarity to anything. It only makes it more meaningless. And then you're also like. Yeah. And this guy's like the number five in this dude.

[Stavros Halkias]

He's so stupid.

[Griffin Newman]

He's like, unimportant. Yeah, Yeah, I. I love that. Every time Leuff leaves, he all also has like, his version of the emotional Oscar scene. He keeps doing the thing that Rooster won't do, which is like, kid, you're special.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I believe in you.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well, that's. Oh, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Has like two monologues that feel like this is his last scene in the movie. And he plays them really straight, but, like, here's the important words I have to leave her with. Which makes it all the funnier when he comes back.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well. And I think, to me, it shows you what a blowhard.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

This, like, because it's. When it's that time we were talking about earlier at the campfire where Rooster is being a piece of shit and he's like, fuck you. I'm not helping. And this is LaBeouf's time to shine. And not only does he not help, but he gives some meaningless, eloquent speech instead. And he thinks saying a. I guess giving her a heroic speech, that your words are more. They couldn't be less useful. They are the most useful. Useless even. It's like the most politician. Like, you know, we're gonna give a big speech about how hard it is to fucking to be. You know, to live in this. You know, everything's too expensive, but we're gonna raise taxes on you. You know what I mean? Or we're gonna give billionaires a tax break. It's the most two faced. Bullshit. You're special. Whatever. Whatever. Not gonna help you, by the way.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like show don't tell, right? Like, Rooster is all action.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And LaBeouf is all tell.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He can't do anything without telling you why he's doing it and why it's Imp should be impressed.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And like, the fact that Rooster never even has a moment of being like, yeah, you're a good kid. Like, he won't give her an inch verbally.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right, Right.

[David Sims]

But he never. I mean, he fakes being like, oh, she's nothing to me, and you take her. Why do I.

[Griffin Newman]

But in his actions, you can tell. Of course he respects her.

[Stavros Halkias]

No.

[David Sims]

And he's going to go get her back. Like, and you're weirdly never. It's tense, it's scary that she's with Tom and like, lebeef saving her is exciting, but you're Also kind of like, yeah, Rooster's got this.

[Stavros Halkias]

Well, also, because you kind. I mean, that is the thing of, like, starting with the adult, you know, she lives.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Stavros Halkias]

You know what I mean? Like, that takes. I do think that that took the bite of, like, does she actually die? Like, this movie is kind of fucked up. You know, you don't. But you don't know if Rooster dies. You don't know what happens to the beef. You don't know what the fucking. What happens.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it's also what she tells you at the beginning, which is. Is like, everything. There's nothing free. Everything comes at a cost. There is some give and take in any action you do in this world. Right. And it's like, what she doesn't understand is, like, she got what she wanted, and it kind of maybe her up forever. And the moment of her having the standoff with Cheney and him trying to, like, sort of Frankenstein walk towards her on the cliff, and she has the courage to, like, stare him down and fire the gun. And the moment when he shoots, not Gleason, but the big guy with Glad Gleason is so good, because there's a really quick shot to Haley Steinfeld of her being like, oh, I've witnessed a man being shot right in front of me. And you realize in that moment, this is the first time she's seen this totally.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

This character. You see her going to a public hanging at the beginning of the film. It's not like she's never seen a dead body. She's seen her father's dead body, but this kind of, like, standoff, you know, in a fiery cabin she's never seen before with, like, sweaty men. And so that moment where she's there with chaining, even though we know she knows how to fire a gun, she knows how to do this, she knows how to do that. You wonder if she'll be able to do it in that moment. And she fires the gun, successfully kills him. But immediately also is, like, pushed back into a ditch from the recoil, because right. Immediately she's a tiny girl. There's, like, a physical reality here. And now she's at the girl at the bottom of a pit surrounded by snakes. And it's like a child in danger. Like, as at the peak of her triumph and her victory, she's knocked all the way back down, down to, like, you are a child in a dangerous world.

[David Sims]

Snakes are also really up.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yep.

[David Sims]

I said this to my wife. I was like, snakes feels like something I made up when I'm a kid. Like, dragons and shit.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, those are just real.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Little tubes that can kill you. Right.

[David Sims]

That just like, come out of nowhere. Poison in them.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, with the voice is crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you get in these conversations with your daughter? I feel like, look who's talking to. As a version of this joke where it's like, wait, so which things are real and which things aren't? Yeah, you tell me. Dinosaurs were dragons or are not. Snakes are presently.

[David Sims]

I'm not getting into that with her yet because I like that she just likes unicorns. And I had a great convo with her the other day, did I tell you this? Where, like, she had bad dreams and I was like, dream about something nice. And she was like, what? And I was like, dream about unicorns. And she's like, okay, you want to know my unicorn names? And I was like, hit me. And she's like, poop, poop, Johnny. And I was like, johnny, Johnny and poop, poop, Johnny and Johnny Poo. That was before four beats.

[Griffin Newman]

She did four beats.

[David Sims]

And I was like, it's one of those things where I'm like, that's kind of funny. Like, oh, you're like, doing slightly more complicated humor now.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Anyway, she's not leaving any meat on that bone either.

[David Sims]

She found every.

[Griffin Newman]

Worked out all four corners.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But, yeah, I don't want to tell her unicorns aren't real because, like, I don't know. Who do I care? Maybe they are real.

[Griffin Newman]

But you're right, snakes do feel like a thing. That should.

[David Sims]

They feel fake. They're like, from the Bible. And you're like, yeah, that's like a monster from the Bible.

[Griffin Newman]

That's not real on that. Here's this girl at the bottom of a pit, right? She's immediately scared and crying. Like she's showing vulnerability for the first time basically in the entire movie. Just from being down there, being hurt, feeling stuck, calling out for Rooster, not hearing any response, being like, there's a good chance no one ever finds me down here.

[Stavros Halkias]

And what's been powering her, the whole thing, is this. This absolute, like, miss, you know, locked in. The mission's now over. Now she is just a little kid in the fucking pit with nothing to drive her. No, nothing in their furnace. All the coal has been burned. You just fucking killed the guy.

[Griffin Newman]

It's Jessica Chastain at the end of0Dark30. Being like, what the fuck do I do now? I killed.

[David Sims]

Is the Osama bin Laden.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yep. 100. And it's also. I will not. It's also the most on the nose. I mean, this at the. At the core, this movie is one of my favorites of, like, I'm a big revenge movie guy. And the lesson almost always is it's not worth it.

[David Sims]

It's not going to make.

[Stavros Halkias]

Never worth it. It always your life up more. And this is in. They. They hit that in multiple ways. I mean, we will. We talked about a little bit. I'm sure we'll talk about the end. End a little more. But this in the moment is the most on the nose. The gun you fire to kill the guy backfires and leaves you in a pit of dead bodies and snakes.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean, that's the most like, granularly. And in the biggest sense, the metaphor is so loud. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

The whole thing that's been driving her has suddenly, like, dissipated and now she's got nothing and she's in danger. And to, like, reach for a dead body while she's kind of like whimpering, right? Like, she's clearly like, okay, but I still have enough wits about me to figure out how to get my way out of here.

[Stavros Halkias]

Get the knife.

[Griffin Newman]

Pull for a dead body. It's a skeleton body with a knife and a sheath. And then you reveal tummy full of snakes.

[Stavros Halkias]

Crazy. Crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you really full of snakes.

[Stavros Halkias]

Knife. Fifth corpse full of snakes is a up visual.

[Griffin Newman]

Not just like, oh, there's one snake hiding here, but like a full belly of snakes.

[Stavros Halkias]

And they're all rattlers. You hear the rattling, you know they're poison. It's not just, you're gonna get bitten.

[David Sims]

You'Re gonna die, you're gonna die. And like, the. I was. I am like, I was shocked when the first time I saw it because I didn't think. I hadn't read the book yet. Like, but I'm like, she loses her arm. It feels so cruel. Like, I was upset the first time I saw the this movie. Now you're just like, yeah, she needs that. Like, it's like her battle wound and, like, it means, like, she can just be this, like, the woman she becomes. Like, rather than having to, like, deal with some gentle.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Is like Rooster comes down there, right? He shoots all the damn.

[David Sims]

He. He is in. He is in Terminator mode. Then, like, then he's in full battle mode. Like the last HP or the clock. Bang, bang, bang, bang. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He does the X over the snake fight with the knight, which I love, and then spits out sucks and spits out the venom, right? Then pulls her back up. And then this thing where, like, the sky turns into this bizarre fantasia. As this. I mean, those swelling.

[Stavros Halkias]

Those shots are like horseback. Different levels of sunset. It's just like on the nose. Beautiful cinematograph.

[David Sims]

Like, it's so.

[Griffin Newman]

But also part of the implication painting. She's, like, hallucinating. Like, it looks like starry nights.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And she's just, like, looking up at the skies. This guy's riding along, and as he realizes, like, the horse is giving out. I gotta stab the horse. Because the panic from the stab will make it run a little bit faster for shorter. And she's calling out, don't do it. Don't hurt the horse. This world is too, like, cruel. Can't do it. Horse is dead. He shoots the horse to put the horse out of its misery. And then just picks her up.

[David Sims]

It rocks. So.

[Griffin Newman]

And they, like, make it just in time for him to. To collapse, fire a gun into the air just enough to get someone to walk outside.

[David Sims]

I'm going to start doing that when I show up at the studio. Just.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're like, she just made it by a moment. And then you hard cut to. She's an adult woman with one arm.

[David Sims]

And has never seen him again. And it's that. I love the idea that it's like they had a bond or whatever, but it might have almost been too intense for them to see each other.

[Griffin Newman]

But also, like, by the time she wakes up, the arm is gone and he is gone. She never communicates to him again.

[David Sims]

He doesn't want to, like, look her in the eye. He can't deal with it.

[Griffin Newman]

Too emotional. It's too emotional.

[David Sims]

And he writes, even shout out, fill your hand, you son of a. Which is like, the coolest thing anyone's ever said in a movie. But yes, he.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he taking the bit in his teeth.

[David Sims]

I love that. Also at the end of the movie, what she's going to those Wild west shows that would travel the country at the turn of the century. It's like, that is the end of the west. Which you saying, like, now it's become this, like, fossil.

[Griffin Newman]

We're dealing with the last, like, it's.

[David Sims]

Like these old cowboys.

[Griffin Newman]

Toughness this guy has in him.

[Stavros Halkias]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He's about to become a novelty and he's going to spend the rest of his life after this moment. Yeah. Being like a children's entertainer.

[David Sims]

Word. Just guys being like. I remember I saw Wild Bill Hickok three times. The first time he looked me in the eye and he said, you got any sugar?

[Stavros Halkias]

You know, like, whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

And then they shoot the bottle and everyone applauds. Right. And then they. A beard lady comes out.

[David Sims]

So she's mad that the other guy doesn't stand up. Is that why she calls him trash? Absolutely. Great that she just.

[Griffin Newman]

The one guy. One guy takes his hat off. The other guy doesn't.

[David Sims]

The other guy's just.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, but yes. No. He writes her a letter inviting her to come to the show, and by the time she gets there, they're like, he died three days ago to this point. In the same way that, like, too hot.

[Stavros Halkias]

They're like.

[David Sims]

It got kind of hot.

[Griffin Newman]

Not really a warm weather.

[David Sims]

There was a breeze then.

[Stavros Halkias]

You might have made the. You might have reconnected with the most important person in your. Your life. You were. I mean, the amount. And you get the sense that this is not a woman who, like, looks forward to a lot and you and her life has not been easy. And yes, I think the biggest tragedy is the heartbreaking part of this is that she peaked. This was the best moment. This was the.

[David Sims]

How do you.

[Stavros Halkias]

How do you top this week of her life?

[Griffin Newman]

It was the most alive she ever was.

[Stavros Halkias]

And to Ben's point, you're not, you know, like, be she. This is the week that she triumphed over being a woman in the Wild west and being a good child. She escaped the dangers that, like being, you know, that being that kind of person. You were in danger and you overcame all of that. You earned the respect of like, tough fucking killer cowboys. You killed one. You personally fucking killed the guy that killed your dad. And the. Your reward for that is you'll never feel as alive. You'll never. You'll never feel people won't. You won't be able to relate to people. You probably were kind of a weird person to begin with.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely.

[Stavros Halkias]

Who does this girl even be become if she doesn't do this?

[Griffin Newman]

That's the thing.

[Stavros Halkias]

She's probably kind of annoying.

[David Sims]

An odd.

[Griffin Newman]

You know what I mean?

[David Sims]

Keeps the books.

[Griffin Newman]

The only alternate path for her is if they successfully talk her out of going on this mission in the first place. And go, now you got to go to finishing school. Put down the gun in the hat. We're going to teach you how to talk and walk like a proper lady, become a school teacher and then marry someone and then like the woman she is at this point, the end of the movie movie, you're like, she could have been like a sassy lady who owns a saloon and doesn't take any guff, but she's almost like. That's like a parody of a person. I'm just gonna be me. Right. And there's no place for me in this world. And she's not. Elizabeth Marvel's so good with such little screen time in this, but, like, she won't let on how excited she is to see Rooster. But in the same way that she feels like if I shoot Tom Chaney, it will result. Resolve my anger about my father being taken from me, she clearly thinks if I get to have one final emotional conversation with Rooster, the conversation that wins Jeff Bridges the Oscar, this will all come together for me. And she gets there and they're like, no, just by happenstance, he died three days ago. This is a little too hot.

[Stavros Halkias]

Life sucks.

[Griffin Newman]

And then she sort of says, like, I heard that LaBeouf's maybe still out there. He'd be 80 now, probably. I never got in touch.

[David Sims]

Probably not, right?

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then she just walks off and it's just, time comes for us all.

[David Sims]

That's the best thing. That you're just like, oh, that's it. And then you're like, yeah, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

That the ending line. She delivers as if there's more to the sentence.

[David Sims]

Right. She thinks she's about to say one.

[Griffin Newman]

Last because time comes for us all. And you're like, what's the end of the thought? Done. Walks off. Music swells. Directed by Joel and Ethan Cohen.

[David Sims]

It's a perfect movie, in my opinion.

[Stavros Halkias]

It was. Yeah. Incredible. And yes. So hard.

[David Sims]

And.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And even the Lebef thing, she's like, she. Even in that. She's like, I would have. I kind of. She's still holding. I hope that at least she'll see Labif. I think even in the way she says that, it's like, you can tell she wants this so bad. And that's. You're right. The actress's name you said. Elizabeth Marvel. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

So little screen time and you can. And she never says anything that tells you she wants this and you. It's palpable how bad she wants and how much she's disappointed. Disappointed. And maybe a little bit. A little bit of it leaks out into the, like calling the guy trash a little. But even that feels more like, no, I just. I will disrespect anyone who's disrespectful towards me.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not going to take off.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'm not going to take off. But, man, being able to communicate how devastating it is for her is. And yeah. And even it. Life is bullshit and nothing good ever happens. And even if you have an adventure where you're the.

[Griffin Newman]

You.

[Stavros Halkias]

You figure it out and you, you do everything you possibly want to. It ultimately doesn't make your life better. It probably. It makes it worse. You lose your fucking arm over it. Congrats, now you don't have an arm and you'll. You're. You're fucking pissed off. And then the end of your life also sucks.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, here's the other.

[Stavros Halkias]

The other quietly so awesome and true.

[Griffin Newman]

Quietly profound and depressing thing that happens at the very end of the movie. I agree with everything you just said. The other quiet and profound thing that happens at the end of the movie is that it hard cuts from her telling the guy who stayed seated with the hat on to go fuck himself. Right? Right. And then she says she got the casket. She tracked down Rooster's body so she could try to bury him properly.

[David Sims]

She got it out of that, like random cemetery.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And what's written the casket says, Cogburn Yell county hold at station.

[Stavros Halkias]

Same thing. Her dad's casket, right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just got like a shipping label on it that's like trash, you know?

[Stavros Halkias]

But that's how they labeled her dad's casket.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So she just gets the casket and then it hard cuts to her standing at his grave site in the snow on top of this hill. And in that shot, she's aged another like 20 years. She's got old age makeup on. So it's like 20 years after the moment where she. We're not seeing her bury him, we're seeing her return to the grave. And you can just fill in the blanks and be like, I guess she probably just comes back here and checks on it a lot. That the closure she never got with this guy. She just comes back and was like, I need to have him in a place where I can go visit and just stare at him steely eyed and then walk away.

[David Sims]

Right. And everyone's like, did they, you know, that's like she, you know, did they?

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right. Cuz everyone's like, why would you take the casket of a man you didn't even know that?

[David Sims]

Well, what is this?

[Griffin Newman]

You knew for a couple of days.

[David Sims]

They don't get it.

[Griffin Newman]

They don't get it, but I get it. It's another funny thing to consider is you think about how rough a shape Rooster's in for this movie. If she had gotten there three days earlier. Earlier, he would have been bad.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, true. Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

25 years later.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, at this point he must spend, I don't know, three, probably a blank check episode worth of time on the Toy and He did, like, blank check and he did listen to it.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'll forget the BMS out.

[David Sims]

I'm a bit of a David dog. This movie came out Christmas Eve 2010. Griffin opens number two. You did say numbers one and three, but just to remind us, fo is one.

[Griffin Newman]

Tron Legacy is two.

[David Sims]

No. So Fockers is one.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

True Dread is two. Oh, Tron Legacy is three has been.

[Griffin Newman]

Out for a couple weeks.

[David Sims]

Correct.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Those are the big three. It's not a great time at the movie theater. This is the whole thing where I'm like, true Grit rocks. Yeah, I defend Tron Legacy, but obviously it's like a basically baffling movie to release to a wide audience. Little Fockers dog. Number four at the box office is the. I don't know, like, third or fourth in, like, a fantasy series. Series. I think in the last.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not Voyage of the dawn trick.

[David Sims]

It is three.

[Griffin Newman]

They only made three? Yeah, right.

[David Sims]

I couldn't remember, like, how many of those they made. Yeah, but, like, that's something where everyone was like, sorry, no, we don't want this. They're like, the Chronicles of Narnia. Continue. I was like, no, man. We were kind of out on that from the beginning.

[Griffin Newman]

I was talking to my dad about this last night, and he was like, so is Greta Gerwig still doing, like, Narnia, too? And I was like, no, she's making her first Narnia, right? And he was like, but wasn't there someone else made a Narnia, like, a year or two, two ago? And I was like, that was. They made three Narnias 15 to 20 years ago. And he was like, did anyone like. I was like, first one, huge hit, right? People flocking. And they were like, I guess this is the new Lord of the Rings. Second one huge drop off. Disney abandons it. Fox is like, I guess there's still money in this, right? The kids don't cost much. What do you got to pay for a lion? And they put that one out and everyone's like, I don't know. Who gives a really. I don't just abandon in it. It was like, due to lack of interest, they never finished the books.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, that's.

[Griffin Newman]

And she's.

[David Sims]

Now those books only get weirder and.

[Griffin Newman]

But she's adapting different books, right? Isn't she doing Magician's Nephew in theory?

[David Sims]

I have no idea. Okay, that is canonically the first.

[Stavros Halkias]

Isn't that the most, like, Harry Potter was a big hit. We have to just. That's the most Classic. Hollywood should have, like, what else magic.

[David Sims]

And Lord of the Rings can we dig up?

[Griffin Newman]

Both launched the same year.

[Stavros Halkias]

It was like, yeah, it was the same year.

[Griffin Newman]

They both come out right after 9, 11. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

And Harry Potter's Thanksgiving.

[David Sims]

Lord of the Rings is Christmas. And America is like, yeah, we love British people doing magic.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And defeating pure evil.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, I saw that. That's another. Definitely saw Harry Potter. I was a big Harry Potter book guy when I was a kid.

[David Sims]

We're this. I mean, you're. You're a couple years younger than. But like, that's. I was too. I mean, the book was for our generation, like, and now I don't like.

[Stavros Halkias]

The book as much, But I love J.K. rowling's politics. That's the thing.

[Griffin Newman]

I kind of got to separate the from the artist. And I'm a big fan of the artist.

[David Sims]

My problem with the books is that they don't talk about that stuff enough. Like, you know, like, that's. I kind of. I'm flipping through the books and I'm like, yeah, but where's all the good?

[Griffin Newman]

Someone who hasn't really found their thing yet. The thing that clearly makes you really happy. You sit back with a cigar and tweet and I go, what a happy woman you seem to be.

[David Sims]

Right. Observation in the world. But like, can't she just buy a yacht?

[Stavros Halkias]

It's crazy.

[David Sims]

Like, get off your phone. You want to look at Twitter. That sucks.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's crazy.

[David Sims]

That sucks. For no matter. You even can, like, buy anything you want. You could like, be like, roast me a swan. And someone be like, I'm on it. Like, fine, I'll.

[Stavros Halkias]

In a weird way for you, it's the true grit shit of like, anyone who's got the making of who wants to be rich as fuck can't chill.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right.

[Stavros Halkias]

You have to be mad about something.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? Anyone who wants to be president is innately kind of going to be a piece of a psychopath.

[Stavros Halkias]

There's not one good person that's ever wanted to be president.

[David Sims]

Not one. Number five at the box office is. Oh, yeah, okay. Kids movie Adaptation of a kids cartoon.

[Griffin Newman]

It's adaptation of a kid's cartoon. Is it like a.

[David Sims]

It's another dog movie. This. This is dog time.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it a continuation cartoon? It's like a later. It's like Flintstones movie esque, that live.

[David Sims]

Action but with a, you know, cartoon.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not. It's not a smart Smurfs. It's not Smurfs, but it's one of These. It's like a. There's a CGI thing, you know, Wants.

[David Sims]

To kill himself every night. It's not that. But again, you know, tell me the.

[Griffin Newman]

Source material is like Saturday morning cartoon.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

2010. I'm trying to think of like what the shitty. And this is one that I imagine just didn't really work in the.

[David Sims]

No, I mean, I. I don't think the movie is good, but I think it, you know, it probably.

[Stavros Halkias]

Land of the Lost.

[Griffin Newman]

It's Yog.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, it's.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yogi Bear. Yogi Bear.

[Griffin Newman]

Quietly a hit.

[David Sims]

Ackroyd and Timberlake.

[Griffin Newman]

Timberlake, of course. Dan Aykroyd and Justin Timberlake are the voices of Yogi.

[David Sims]

Who's the. Who's the real life?

[Griffin Newman]

Kavanaugh is Ranger Smith. But then Anna Ferris is like the reporter.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Hell yeah. Shout out the story.

[David Sims]

She's breaking a.

[Griffin Newman]

Stealing picnic baskets or whatever. Yeah. There's an incredible video. It's so well done that people thought at the time was this like a VFX artist on the Yogi Bear movie going rogue. And it was just like. Posted by some anonymous this account. But it is the end of. Not the end, but the titular assassination of Jesse James. I've seen that being done with the CGI models of Y and Boo.

[Stavros Halkias]

That is very funny.

[Griffin Newman]

It's really good.

[Stavros Halkias]

Where is Anna Ferris, man? She's so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

It is weird, man.

[David Sims]

I mean, she had the sitcom for a year.

[Griffin Newman]

Seven years of Mom.

[Stavros Halkias]

I guess nobody makes comedies anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's a big part.

[David Sims]

Nobody makes comedies anymore. Nobody like takes women over 40 seriously in movies.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm still pulling for the comeback.

[David Sims]

When I was in Toy Story 5.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm aware she believe she's playing the main villain. Okay.

[David Sims]

That's fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Lily Pad. I think I made a bet to my friend Jake in high school. I was like, she is going to win an Oscar.

[Stavros Halkias]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm like calling it now like Ferris guy.

[Stavros Halkias]

But I don't know that I would have made that one.

[Griffin Newman]

It was because she had just had the small parts in Lost in Translation.

[Stavros Halkias]

Awesome at that.

[Griffin Newman]

And Brokeback Mountain.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

Where it's like she was in two best picture nominees.

[Stavros Halkias]

She's got a. I guess you're right.

[Griffin Newman]

She's kind of got where she's got small parts. And I was like. And clearly good directors recognize she's got more she can do. And I was like, someday someone's gonna find the perfect kind of like dramedy role and she'll win supporting actress. And it does feel like, we've gone a little off course. I'm pulling for the comeback. There's a. There's like a very profoundly upsetting New Yorker profile on her when what's your number Was coming out. And it was about how hard she had fought to prove that she was a movie. Movie star and how, like, she was the lead of four scary movies that were all big hits, but they were like, yeah, but that wasn't because of you. And she had to fight so hard to get the house bunny. She was so long playing like, the best friend or the crazy ex girlfriend or whatever it was, but never got to be the star of the movie. House bunny was her thing. House bunny was dumped. It was a big hit. And she was like, great, now I have you power. They'll let me do what I want. And she sets up what's your number? And the whole article is about out how they were like, can you be less weird? Can you be kind of a little more?

[Stavros Halkias]

What even is what's your number? I don't even know it.

[David Sims]

It's like, she's like, I had to marry one of the guys. I've.

[Griffin Newman]

She finds out that she's 20 guys, and they're like, if you haven't already found the one and you 20 people.

[Stavros Halkias]

Body count back, you're a four, and.

[Griffin Newman]

You should be thrown into the garbage.

[David Sims]

Right? So you have to pick from one.

[Griffin Newman]

You can't meet a no guy.

[David Sims]

And like, one of them is back.

[Griffin Newman]

To the previous episodes or whatever. No, it's so much worse. It's that Chris Evans is the new guy she meets who's her next door neighbor. She can't him because she already has 20. And then at the end of the movie, Aziz on sorry. Leaves a voicemail, and he's like, hey, I got your call. Actually, we never. We just did hand stuff. And she's like, I'm at 19. I can Chris Evans. It's directed by Mark Milad, who later becomes the main director of Success. Session directs the menu. It is like the crassus dumbest comedy. It's so bad.

[Stavros Halkias]

That sucks.

[Griffin Newman]

And. And it bombed. And they were like, never mind. You're not a movie star. And then she goes to cbs. And the crux of that article is she's like, my dream project is I have been developing comedy single white female.

[Stavros Halkias]

Hell yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And they keep going like, great, we'll give that a green light. You're of course gonna play the Bridget Fonda part, right?

[Stavros Halkias]

Right. Yeah. You'll see her grandmother, right?

[Griffin Newman]

And she's like, no, I want to be like. Like the weird psycho. And they were like, no, you're a leading lady now. You can't play weirdos anymore. You have to be like a romantic lead.

[David Sims]

But what. She would rock it. Whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

She would rock.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Let's bring Ferris back.

[Griffin Newman]

Ferris back.

[David Sims]

Just to give you the other six is the Fighter, which is a great like. Like time at the theater. That's another.

[Stavros Halkias]

Saw that with my girlfriend.

[David Sims]

You guys have a good time?

[Stavros Halkias]

We did. We loved it. In fact, I remember, I. It made Wahlberg's back, gave me body dysmorphia. I was like, I want that back leg. I would. I was talking about how I wanted a back leg. Wahlberg in the Fighter for, like, months.

[David Sims]

You're like, going to Jim's back. And they're like, what are you talking.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, he's like, our size. That's the other thing. He's short. He's a short king. Melissa Leo, of course, beats Hailee Steinfeld for Best supporting Actress.

[David Sims]

Correct. Correct number.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Stavros Halkias]

I really. This is crazy how I thought I was checked out on culture. I don't know. I think I was just mad at Burn After Burn after reading because I was dumb. How did I not see this?

[Griffin Newman]

Because this year is like a Social Network. King's speech ends up winning most of the big awards. The Fighter, Best movie of all 127 hours. Kids are all right. True Grit. True Grit is one of the most nominated movies with zero wins.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's so weird that I missed this and around this time. It's so weird.

[David Sims]

I don't know. I mean. And it doesn't win because they had just. Everyone had just won an Oscar. They're like, well, the cones just won. Bridges just won, like, you know, like, that's the reason.

[Griffin Newman]

Reason score is disqualified because it uses so much traditional music. It not winning Cinematography, costume art, direct.

[David Sims]

Well, okay. Cinematography went to Social Network. I'm pretty sure. Like, the thing is, Social Network's kind of the big critics.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean, it's good, but I mean, the cinematography, no argument for me, my friend.

[David Sims]

I love this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Speech wins costume. Is that right? That movie sucks. That movie. Yeah.

[David Sims]

The whole thing with King Speech is you're like, if that movie won zero Oscars, then I would be like, yeah, it's a fun. The King has to do the speech. They were like, best picture of the. Come on up, King. And you're like, no, come on. Like, especially it's in the green book.

[Stavros Halkias]

Category of, like, if it doesn't win anything. You're like, this is kind of stupid, but fun. Yeah, Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, do you, do you remember that?

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, like, if Green Book had win the Oscars, I'd be like that awesome movie where VGO eats the whole pizza.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, that movie is good. Do you remember that thing?

[David Sims]

That movie's kind of good.

[Griffin Newman]

Weird room where they do the lessons in King's speech that has those cracking paint and all that colored walls. And everyone's like, where did they find this location? And then guys on gay Twitter were like, I know where they found it. And pulled up that there's like a ton of gay porn that was shot in that exact room.

[Stavros Halkias]

Awesome. That's awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

Just like Twitter was.

[Stavros Halkias]

Someone's got to do the like the parody of a King. The gay parody. Every time the guy's about to suck dick, he like hesitates and he's like, no, no, no, focus. Okay. Open your mouth and suck the dick.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got a debilitating stutter that stops him from.

[Stavros Halkias]

From giving guy's head.

[Griffin Newman]

From Deep Throat.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, from Deep Throat. He has to be top of his mouth.

[Griffin Newman]

David, this is good.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's very intense.

[Griffin Newman]

This is why we had Stavi on the show.

[David Sims]

I agree. I'm not mad about it. I'm not at all.

[Griffin Newman]

David's head is in his.

[David Sims]

I just have to tell you that number seven at the box office was terrible. Entangled. Okay, Good movie.

[Griffin Newman]

A great movie.

[David Sims]

I watch it all the time with.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite movie of that era.

[David Sims]

Number eight is. Oh, right, new this week, Giant Bomb, the Jack Black Gulliver's travel movie. Nine is Black.

[Griffin Newman]

Basically killed his career for like three years.

[David Sims]

This is such an interesting era because all the big movies, I'm saying Fockers, Gulliver's, Narnia, like suck. But then you have like True Grit, the Fighter, and at number nine, Black Swan, on which are like grown up ass Oscar movies that make a hundred million plus. You know, like the fighter got over 100. Like they're these like, you know, proper hits for grown ups. Right now they would all be 10 episode Hulu miniseries.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes.

[David Sims]

And number 10, the box office, of course is the Tourist with Jolie and Pitt. You're right though.

[Griffin Newman]

Like the expected hits are all kind of bombing.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then actual.

[David Sims]

So audiences are like, I guess I'll see the movie where the girl like rips her nails off and like makes out with Mila Kunis. This is a movie. Fine.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't want to see Humongous.

[Stavros Halkias]

That awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

That's like, this was.

[David Sims]

It's just funny that mainstream America was like, yeah, Black Swan. Fine, I'll take a piece of that.

[Griffin Newman]

It feels like this was a year where six out of the 10 best picture nominees made over $100 million.

[David Sims]

It's a stacked year at the Oscars.

[Griffin Newman]

Black Swan, True Grit, King speech, Toy Story 3.

[David Sims]

We forget the fighter, social network, probably 90. Yeah, yeah, of course. Winter's Bone made $400 million.

[Griffin Newman]

Inception, Inception, 6. Like, there's a summer of the nominees.

[David Sims]

That is a huge, like, original hit, you know, and all that.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's the thing that it feels like we've lost is like family together on Christmas. And they're like, I heard Focker sucks. I guess we should go see the Coen Brothers Western instead. Today you'd be like, I heard Focker sucks. I guess we stay home and watch YouTube.

[Stavros Halkias]

Exactly. Yeah, you're right. Absolutely. This was the last.

[Griffin Newman]

No, let's try seeing something a little off the beat. Beaten path. Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Although Christmas still might be the one. Christmas is the best.

[Griffin Newman]

Because people are tired of staying at home.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

With all the family.

[Stavros Halkias]

And it's such a tradition of, like, go see a movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, Nosferatu made a ton of money at Christmas.

[Stavros Halkias]

I loved it. I loved seeing that.

[David Sims]

I'm so excited for that. Like, for.

[Griffin Newman]

For what? For verbals?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You're excited for wolves.

[Stavros Halkias]

See that. That again.

[Griffin Newman]

That, to me, is kind of like hair ridiculous.

[Stavros Halkias]

The way we're talking about the Yiddish Police Men's Union is two on the nose.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Him being. They do.

[Stavros Halkias]

Which, by the way, I will again. We'll be there day one. But it is, like, where it's not.

[Griffin Newman]

Even the announcement of next Christmas. Robert Eggers fast tracking focus features wolfs.

[Stavros Halkias]

With a V. Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I was just like, my guy, don't play into the.

[Stavros Halkias]

I know, but that's all he wants to do.

[David Sims]

You're cruising for a. I want to make a movie about, like, the black experience at the sort of Harlem Renaissance. People have been be like, you don't want to do, like, werewolves maybe in, like, Eastern Europe.

[Griffin Newman]

I do think sometimes, though, those kinds of guys got to whiff that hard, do something they shouldn't do. So that when they go back to vw, people are like, thank you.

[David Sims]

Maybe the producer advice is like, hey, keep that in your pocket. Do something weird.

[Griffin Newman]

You want people asking for it, rather.

[David Sims]

Than like this again.

[Stavros Halkias]

And I. I love. I love Eggers. And my favorite. But my favorite, favorite part is like, I wanted to just Stay in the market that Holt is running through to get to work. Like. Like he is so good at making these worlds real.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like the Cohens in that same way where you're just like, fuck, I'm thinking about this guy in the background.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, dude, the Roma shit like that, the inn and they're dancing and all that shit. Like, oh, it's. That stuff is so. And the rest of the movies are great too and you know. But God damn, he is so good at the world, man. He's so good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, no, that's in a way that he might.

[Stavros Halkias]

He might be one of the only guys that's better than the Cohen's at it.

[Griffin Newman]

They're in the same zone.

[Stavros Halkias]

The Cohen's are better at the little characters being more fleshed out, but the actual like setting and the design and all that kind of shit. He might. I think he's better.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, he is also. I mean his whole thing is just like obsessive research, which is.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's awesome. That's my fit. You know, like even like sometimes I want a little more action, a little more meat from his shit. But man, this. The worlds are so good.

[David Sims]

Nusrat too for me, I generally enjoy. But the, the. The castle stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Who.

[David Sims]

Going to the castle and getting with the weird villagers.

[Griffin Newman]

The actual.

[David Sims]

All that. I was just like, this rocks. Once he went back and he was like, there's a vampire coming. I was like, that's fine. But I really just liked him going to see Count Orlock.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, that was awesome.

[David Sims]

And then them having dinner and Orlok being like, that picture is so beautiful. Your wife, you know all that.

[Griffin Newman]

And you know the thing about wife's.

[Stavros Halkias]

Did your wife bring any hair for me? She kind of does.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? Yeah. Just walk in on your dead wife entangled in Nosferatu's dead body.

[David Sims]

Good. I guess we dealt with that together. All right, come on, let's wrap this up, man.

[Griffin Newman]

You know the thing about Grafton Polar lock, though. What's up?

[Stavros Halkias]

He loves to pull decor. Yeah, it's blood in there though. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

On top of Pull the cork. Another thing I love is anytime you watch an old timey movie where characters talk about drink, singular.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You've resorted to drink.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, there was water to drink.

[Stavros Halkias]

I mean there was no water. Yeah, you kind of had to just drink really shitty water down here and whiskey.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's never drinking. It's not. He drinks a lot. He's a man of Dr.

[Stavros Halkias]

Drink. He drinks. Yeah, he's a man of drink.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely. Singular. Stuffy. Thank you for being here, guys.

[Stavros Halkias]

Thank you so much. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Truly a pleasure.

[Stavros Halkias]

This was so fun. I love the show. I. I discovered. I discovered in a bad time, and I always.

[David Sims]

That's what people find blank.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. Yeah. I was in my actual lowest. I had gone through every other possible podcast.

[David Sims]

It was the NBA season.

[Stavros Halkias]

There was nothing that. There were no pods to listen right.

[David Sims]

That close out. Take a break. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Hattie started listening the second they took her arm off. That's how she got miserable, actually.

[David Sims]

Want to know?

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Well, we're like, how did you find this?

[Stavros Halkias]

I. No, I literally was just, like, at a point where I had been. It was like, I had worked so hard for so long, and I had gotten so, like, fat and addicted to drugs, and I needed to go dry out in Baltimore, and I truly was. I couldn't be with my own thoughts. And I also am, like, in the last couple of years, I've really. I've always been kind of a movie fan, whatever. Obviously, like, being a little kid and my. We would go to the library and get movies that way. But, you know, my family was. You know, we're Greek, and all the media we consumed was not. We were never huge movie people. And, you know, I'm trying to get into it more and more. And so, yeah, that summer, I was like, I have to lose weight. I don't want to be with my thoughts. I want to also maybe act a little bit. I want to learn how movies are made. Whatever I started, I would watch any. I would listen to, like, movie pods. And you kind of. There's not that many of them. And then I just found. I was just looking up. Even though we have. Even though we have, like, afterwards, it's like, it's clear. We have so many mutual friends. And it's kind of weird. There was never an intersection before that. And we. We're both kind of in that weird 2016, like, we started Compound, the Doughboys. There's a weird 2016 wave of podcast.

[David Sims]

Second Wave, where we were all kind of like. I mean, there's a lot of a podcast. This won't work.

[Stavros Halkias]

Comedy Bang. Bang and Marin already exists.

[David Sims]

There's eight podcasts.

[Stavros Halkias]

This American Life, Comedy Band, Bang and Marin. Nobody else.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, there's no room for anyone else.

[Stavros Halkias]

We're all done.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And so. But for whatever reason. And I found it, and I just. Yeah, I love the show. And any. You know, it also kind of the way you guys go about it with the actual directors is really cool. So, yeah, huge fan. This.

[Griffin Newman]

We were talking about how much we love you and how great you were on Doughboys, and then I was doing the Doughboys live stream, and I. You were in the lobby of the hotel, and you were like, I saw the show was happening. I was visiting my parents. I'll just come by. And we ended up hanging out for the night with my father as well, who was in town for a funeral, and immediately was like, this guy's the bet. Who is this guy?

[David Sims]

Oh, man, you are a Pete Fave. Like, I like, you're the kind of.

[Griffin Newman]

Guy Pete truly calls you his hero now. But you immediately said, I'm a fan of the podcast. And I was like, that's crazy. We'd have you on anytime.

[David Sims]

Come on, man.

[Griffin Newman]

And I said, we're doing Cohen, and you, like, grab me by the shoulders and you. I've been watching all of them on the box. I'm so ready to go.

[Stavros Halkias]

I had just watched. Yeah, we just watched no Country. We had just watched the one I. Miller's Crossing.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Which huge favorite, you know, you got. I. I understand you got somebody with a similar. Who's as similar a big deal in the movie world as I am kind of someone right around the same.

[Griffin Newman]

Hopefully that episode has happened.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's happened. But no, I. I love the cone so much. And, you know, and this was so. This was so fun.

[David Sims]

Come back.

[Stavros Halkias]

I'd love to. I'm here, baby.

[David Sims]

I also say this, too.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like I. I keep. I've heard several stories of very successful standups and people like you who have huge followings. Right. Who get offered, like, small parts in good movies with good directors and are like, why the would I do that? I'd make more money on the road.

[Stavros Halkias]

Oh, I lose money without question.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. But talking you at the bar after the Doughboys show, you were just sort of like, why isn't ever my position wanting to do this? Why wouldn't you want to be a guy who can pop up for a week.

[Stavros Halkias]

Dude.

[Griffin Newman]

And be part of a great movie and work with great people? And I love that you're entering that stage of your career. And I like watching all these Cohen movies. I'm like, you're. You're the kind of guy.

[Stavros Halkias]

Polito is who I want to be.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Like, when I see him pop up, I'm like, that's the.

[Griffin Newman]

I think you're on the Runway.

[Stavros Halkias]

That guy.

[Griffin Newman]

I think you're on the Runway.

[David Sims]

Runway.

[Stavros Halkias]

Thanks, man. Yeah, I mean, by the time this airs, I'll have been Panned and begone. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it, so I am so worried. I've gone so good except for this.

[Griffin Newman]

But you were telling me that you like your reps, and you were like, is it crazy that I think I could be good at doing a couple scenes in a drama?

[Stavros Halkias]

I think I could.

[Griffin Newman]

Can you position me for this? Which I think people in your position today are not doing.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's my whole, like, it's crazy to have gotten this movie. And I don't know, maybe my great grandfather owed Yorgo's great grandfather a goat or something. And that's the real story is fine. He's just like some villager. Debts have been cleared this way. But I thought, if I'm lucky, in 10 years, maybe I get to be, you know, a guy who has a very memorable scene in a diner in a PTA movie.

[Griffin Newman]

That's at least the goal.

[Stavros Halkias]

That's the absolute of what I want to go to. And so I hope I didn't blow it and somebody else has let me in a movie that I don't know if that's out. You know, I don't know if that's gotten out, but it's really cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

And, yeah, I. I love. Because, yeah, dude, you grow the fir. Your first. And even through comedy, your fir. My first exposure to comedy is comedy. Is John Candy, is. Is, you know, Chris Farley movies, Eddie Murphy. It's just like. And then you grow up loving Sandler.

[Griffin Newman]

And then you basically reverse engineer. How did these people get there? Like, for me, like, discovering standup and sketch and all these things was being like, so where does this guy come from?

[Stavros Halkias]

Where this guy come from?

[Griffin Newman]

Why they just let this guy be in movies.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right?

[Griffin Newman]

And you're like, he was in dirty, dirty clubs for 10 years.

[Stavros Halkias]

Absolutely. So, yeah, it's funny. It's. It's. I still don't. I don't understand how any part of my career has happened. And this the least of all. It's like, stand up. It's like, all right, you just fucking. You eat enough shit. And there's only. There's only like a hundred people who are this suicidal and. And have decided they're willing to sacrifice everything, that they'll just work clubs or, you know, do nothing else. Like, you should just go get a regular job instead of do stand up. It's a horrible lifestyle.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, we're working people.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But acting is. I don't understand how it's happening, but, yeah, please. Hopefully I didn't blow it in Bonia and I would love to just be. And the Cohen are the exact type of. I mean there's so many dream.

[Griffin Newman]

You need them. You need them to reunite just in time to ask for who. Who's the paleto of this generation.

[Stavros Halkias]

Dude, that's all I want, dude. I just some. I can play. I can play bully like bullies or cucks. That's kind of my, like, that's my. That's my kind of, you know, know zone.

[David Sims]

I not. This is going to sound rude, but it's not like you do have the vibe of something yor ghost like, just dreamed up. You know what I mean? Like, yos is like, I'm going to write down another weirdo. He's just imagining you.

[Stavros Halkias]

No, I'm a. I'm a definitely a the. I was toothless for a while and that's when I was sure my acting career was going to take off. I was like, I'm a fat, weird toothless.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a tasting cloth.

[Stavros Halkias]

Throw me in there. But, you know, whatever. I appreciate it, guys.

[David Sims]

Teeth fixed is an important part of becoming a movie star.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know when this comes out, but I think in October, right.

[David Sims]

When the movie's coming out, October 19th.

[Stavros Halkias]

So I'm also going to be in Austin, Texas, and I'm going to be in Boston at the will. Austin, I'm going to be in November and Boston, I'm going to be in December. So yeah, come see me. I'm also still working on a. On a special that I'm very. Oh, actually I got a lot of stuff coming up. Actually. I'm going to be in fucking Memphis, Huntsville, Chattanooga, Knoxville, Asheville, Greensboro, Wilmington, Myrtle Beach. Yeah, I did a bus tour this year and I'm doing a minivan tour. Yeah, Yeah, I was like. I did a really prestigious, like, bus theater tour. Did the Chicago theater, 3,000 people. Now I'm like, give me the comedy Cabana in Myrtle Beach. Let's get back to our room.

[Griffin Newman]

You're doing a Little Red Wagon tour, dude.

[Stavros Halkias]

It's going to be. Yeah, literally, dude, I'm basically going to be. I'm going to be in a minivan for. I mean, I'm betting money it's going to be a Chrysler Pacifica throughout the Southeast and then Austin, Texas on the 22nd, Boston on the. On December 12th and 13th. But yeah, come see me do stand up. Watch a movie. I have a. If you got, you know, you guys have big movie fans, obviously. I made an indie movie called let's Start a Cult. It's on Hulu. You can watch it there. So, yeah, that's where you can find me. Thanks, guys.

[Griffin Newman]

You're the best. And we look forward to having you on again. Absolutely.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Stavros Halkias]

Come back, come do Stav's World. Anytime, boys.

[Griffin Newman]

Happily.

[David Sims]

We got to shout out Eldis.

[Stavros Halkias]

Eldis. Yeah. You guys are in a.

[Griffin Newman]

You.

[Stavros Halkias]

Yeah. You're in a fraternity of elite producers with El. Yeah. Ben and Eldis. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. El. Yeah. You got. Please come do. Come do the pod. We're going to be. We're going to be moving into Manhattan, I think, soon.

[David Sims]

So that's fine. That's fine. I'll go to the Big Apple.

[Stavros Halkias]

Come to the Big Apple. Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune in next week for Inside Llewyn Davis. Correct.

[David Sims]

Yep. Nope. Next week, I guess. We're covering a House of Dynamite.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

The new Katherine Bigelow movie about nukes.

[Griffin Newman]

At the time we're recording this, we think Katherine Bigelow's Netflix movie is coming out around this time. And if not, we'll have to. Won't be listening to this. Yeah. And as always, time comes for us all.

[David Sims]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley.

[Griffin Newman]

Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon.

[David Sims]

This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithee, research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Patrick Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to.

[Griffin Newman]

All of the real nerdy shit.

[David Sims]

Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at blankcheckpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.