Blank Check with Griffin & David

Episode: We Need To Talk About Kevin
Guest: Jia Tolentino
Date: February 8, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims are joined by acclaimed writer and New Yorker staffer Jia Tolentino to discuss Lynne Ramsay’s 2011 film We Need to Talk About Kevin. The trio dives deep into the film’s themes, the book it’s based on, Ramsay’s filmmaking style, the movie’s place in pop culture, and its challenging subject matter of parenthood, evil, and trauma. Throughout, the conversation is shot through with the hosts’ characteristic humor and wide-ranging pop culture references.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Reactions to the Film

• Griffin and David both acknowledge that We Need to Talk About Kevin is their least favorite of Ramsay’s films—while still considering it “very good” — mainly due to its unrelenting bleakness.
• Jia admits she only watched the movie for research, having avoided both the film and the book for years due to their subject matter and author Lionel Shriver’s reputation.

2. Jia's Flight Experience: Double Dose of Kevin

• [03:01] Jia recounts reading the last 100 pages of the novel and then immediately watching the film on a cramped flight, self-consciously “Kev-maxxing” in public:

  “Now’s as good of a time as any to do my rewatch... I opened my laptop and then watched start to finish We Need to Talk About Kevin.”
  (Jia Tolentino, 03:00)

3. The Book vs. the Film

• The novel is described as epistolary—structured as letters from Eva to her husband—which Ramsey adapts into a tight, associative “stream of consciousness” film.
• [35:19] Gia highlights Lynne Ramsay’s script:

  “All of the intrusive thought structure that feels so loose—like it’s unbelievably tight. You can feel where in the script there would be like, ‘this circle is like this circle that evokes this feeling...’"
  (Gia Tolentino, 35:19)

4. Lynne Ramsay’s Adaptation & Filmmaking Style

• The hosts admire Ramsay’s ability to translate internal monologues into purely visual cinema.
• Discussion of Ramsay’s “expressionistic” flourishes, from La Tomatina’s opening (the tomato fight) to color and shape motifs.
• Ramsay’s penchant for tight, impressionistic editing and elliptical narratives.

5. Casting and Performances

Tilda Swinton

• Repeatedly praised for her “Buster Keaton”-esque, almost silent film performance.
• “Her face is incredible in this movie... Her face is like a Gumby.”
  (Gia Tolentino, 52:48)

Ezra Miller as Kevin

• [21:33] Jia confesses she didn’t recognize Miller until after the credits due to her policy of not Googling mid-movie:

  “I’m a huge gossip—but do I ever want to know anything about someone I do not know? Yes. Their personal life? I don’t fucking care.”
  (Jia Tolentino, 22:23)

• David reveals a personal history:

  “I went to summer camp with Ezra. I kind of grew up with Ezra...”
  (David Sims, 24:49)

• Miller’s off-screen controversies are touched on as a darkly ironic post-script to the film.

John C. Reilly

• Cast for "warmth," but the hosts agree his chemistry with Swinton never fully convinces as plausible couple.

6. Nature vs. Nurture, and Parenting Anxiety

• The film is seen less as a treatise on parental guilt and more as a depiction of “anxiety from someone debating becoming a parent.”
• [53:23] Jia describes Kevin as a “malignant baby,” arguing that the child creates the mother as much as the reverse.

  “The child has produced the mom of a school shooter.”

• The group agrees the movie’s intensity comes from the ambiguity and impossibility of knowing the “cause” of Kevin’s evil—nature or nurture.

7. Kevin’s Cartoonish Evil

• The hosts debate whether Kevin’s presentation as pathologically “evil” from birth is too extreme.
• [55:47] Jia:

  “I like the decision that he's unredeemably malignant from literally day one... That Kevin is like that.”

8. Dark Humor & Coping

• The show is leavened by regular injections of black comedy, both in the film and in the podcast discussion.
• [57:04] David:

  “This movie is, like, funny. It is, like, pitch darkly funny.”

9. The “Iconic” Title

• The hosts discuss how “We need to talk about X” has become a pop culture meme.
• [16:09] Gia:

  “I think this is one of the few movies that exists in which the title is more famous than the movie.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On watching difficult films for a podcast:

  “The least pleasant—like the movie I was least in the mood to watch for work, essentially. This is a job of mine.”
  (Griffin Newman, 01:41)

• On Lionel Shriver and controversy:

  “Her name is Margaret Ann Shriver. She's from North Carolina. And she gave herself the name Lionel at 15 because she wanted a tomboyish…”
  (Griffin Newman, 39:03)

• On the “butter” scene in the book:

  “It being Kevin's dick is, quote, purple and gleaming... with what I first assume is KY jelly, but which... is my Land O Lakes unsalted butter.”
  (Gia Tolentino, 38:06)

• On Lynne Ramsay’s career obstacles:

  "Nine years. Yeah. 2002 to 2011 is the break between this and Morvern Callar. But obviously there’s… right, movies in between. There’s stuff to talk about and stuff like that."
  (Griffin Newman, 15:15)

• On the ambiguity of Kevin’s evil:

  “If someone experienced a tragedy like this... they would then look at everything in their life in a completely different way, and it’s completely unreliable.”
  (Griffin Newman, 53:58)

• On why Ramsay’s films are worth watching:

  “She understands how to depict the inner life or the internal subjective, emotional and psychological experience of living through things we just don’t want to fucking think about.”
  (David Sims, 120:20)

• On recommending Ramsay’s films:

  “You kind of know more than most directors who I think direct masterpieces... I would never, like, urge someone to see it who I don't know would—you know what I mean?”
  (Gia Tolentino, 117:46)

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:17] – Griffin and David on initial reactions to the film
• [03:00] – Jia’s airplane “Kev-maxxing” experience
• [06:36] – Discussion of Ramsay’s bravura tomato festival opening
• [10:08] – About Lynne Ramsay’s communication style and Scottish accents
• [24:49] – David’s friendship history with Ezra Miller
• [35:19] – The film’s script and editing style; Daisy-chained stream-of-consciousness
• [52:48] – The “malignant baby” and Swinton’s performance
• [55:46] – Discussion of whether Kevin is too cartoonishly evil
• [57:04] – Affirming the film’s dark, gallows humor
• [120:20] – David’s thesis: Why Ramsay’s films are life-affirming, not just punishing
• [133:05] – The hosts attempt to explain the appeal of Lynne Ramsay’s work for new viewers

Lynne Ramsay’s Directorial Arc and Hollywood Struggles

• Detailed coverage of Ramsay being hired and dropped from The Lovely Bones, and the difference between her and Peter Jackson’s adaptation instincts ([62:00]).
• The “nine years” between Morvern Callar and Kevin, filled with near-misses and stalled productions.

Fun Tangents, Running Bits, and Pop Culture Sidebars

• Extended riffs on the memeification of the movie’s title.
• Comparisons of Kevin to “Rosemary’s Baby but with no devil.”
• A playful debate about whether bow and arrow is a “hat on a hat” as Kevin’s murder weapon.
• References to other cultural touchstones—other child-murder movies (e.g., “Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance”, “Elephant”), pop music, and the Fantastic Beasts franchise (Ezra Miller's "Wizard Kevin").
• Anecdotes about raising children, Lego building, and the British weather ("dreich"), as well as Jia’s grinch-like avoidance of holiday traditions.

Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive and often very funny exploration of We Need to Talk About Kevin, grappling with the movie’s bleakness, style, and pop culture afterlife. Jia Tolentino’s presence amplifies the discussion with insights on the book, parenting, and how films like this (as well as Ramsay’s larger body of work) function as both cathartic and challenging experiences.

Memorable Closing Segment

• [178:29] – On IMDb’s FAQ for We Need To Talk About Kevin:

  “Is Kevin a psychopath? And the answer is yes.”

For Further Listening

• Next week’s episode: You Were Never Really Here with Sean Clements

Summary by [your podcast summarizer] (2026). For detailed show credits, see the Blank Check official website.