Witness with Amanda Dobbins

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David

Episode: “Witness” with Amanda Dobbins

Release Date: April 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Blank Check, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims are joined by Amanda Dobbins (The Big Picture) for an in-person, wide-ranging, and affectionate discussion of Peter Weir’s 1985 classic Witness. The conversation explores the film's unique place in the filmographies of Weir and Harrison Ford, pays tribute to the run of adult-oriented thrillers in the ‘80s, and—true to Blank Check form—riffs through tangential but delightful sidebars on childhood media exposure, physical media aesthetics, Harrison Ford’s singular movie star appeal, and more. Dobbins, whose strong personal connection to Witness is longstanding, helps anchor an energetic talk that is as enthusiastic about the film’s gentle eroticism and Philly specificity as it is insightful about its cultural afterlife.

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Main Topics & Key Insights

1. The Franchise Power of Names, Posters, and 1980s Ford (00:01–04:15)

• The hosts riff on the marketing of Witness, with Griffin and David recalling the movie’s attempts to brand “John Book” as a Ford character on par with Indiana Jones or Han Solo.
• Amanda proposes the name was chosen for franchise-ability, evoking a Mad Libs approach to Hollywood heroes.
• “He's playing another iconic character. Like, can we gabbo them into thinking… I'm supposed to know who John Book is?” — Griffin (01:11)
• The discussion highlights Ford’s rise through the ‘80s, referencing bombs (Blade Runner) and blockbusters, and positing Witness as a studio effort to sell Ford as a fresh archetype.

2. Witness as The Amish Movie: Cultural Impact and Philadelphia Roots (04:15–08:01)

• The group agrees that for years Witness was the cultural touchstone for mainstream images of the Amish, echoing the "Rain Man effect" for autism.
• Amanda shares a personal connection: her Philly-born family considered Witness a “Philadelphia movie,” and tells a story about her husband being scared to use the 30th Street Station bathroom after seeing the film.
• “This movie almost had, like, a Rain man autism effect.” — Griffin (04:06)

3. 1980s Childhood Media Exposure: What Did We Watch, and When? (06:00–09:56)

• The conversation drifts into early childhood and the generational differences in movie-going: movies (even R-rated ones) were shown to kids earlier, with the hosts comparing their childhood media diets to contemporary parental caution.
• “In our generation, the tradition is everyone sees everything too young.” — Griffin (07:44)
• Amanda and David discuss how even children’s entertainment in the ‘80s was darker or more intense than today’s fare.

4. Blank Check’s Peter Weir Miniseries: Why Witness Matters (10:00–15:39)

• The hosts contextualize Witness as a critical turning point in Peter Weir’s career: his “leap to Hollywood.”
• They lay out the “Podnik at Hanging Cast” miniseries and Amanda’s personal history with Witness, The Thomas Crown Affair, and other ‘formative’ films.
• They ponder why films like Witness and Working Girl are hugely important to certain movie fans but somewhat forgotten by “Film Bro canon.”
• “For women only get 33.3% of the podcast appearances that men get.” — Griffin (12:27)
• Amanda: “They were important to my cinematic development, and I’ve got a whole lot more of those.”

5. Who Is Witness For? Coming of Age, Content, and Ratings (15:39–17:05)

• The movie is situated as mid-scale, “rated 15”–ish: a drama with “a pair of tits, a hint of violence, but you can engage with it as a teenager.” (David, 15:56)
• They note its “mildest kind of culture shock comedy” and the way it treats the Amish seriously.

6. Barn Raisings, American Girl Dolls, Nostalgia & Cultural Memory (17:05–22:33)

• Amanda discusses how Witness visualized barn raising for a generation of American Girl Doll readers, kicking off a funny, detailed digression on the American Girl Doll canon, generational toys, and the way certain 1980s media crystallized historical imagination.

7. Kids’ Media Now: Spider-Man, Character-Free Montessori, Tom Cruise as Role Model (22:33–25:03)

• David and Amanda chat about their children’s viewing habits (no Marvel allowed at Montessori school), how pop characters trickle down (“my son thinks Tom Cruise is coming to his birthday party”), and muse on how current kids’ franchises (Spidey and His Amazing Friends) might reshape expectations for blockbuster movies in the future.

8. The Disappearing Sexiness of Movies: Witness and Modern Chastity (25:03–27:20)

• Griffin frames Witness as “what is less discussed” in current sexless movie discourse: the lost art of slow-burn sexual tension rather than just explicit sex scenes.
• The trio notes that “everyone is beautiful, and nobody” in contemporary movies, versus Ford and McGillis’s raw humanity here.
• “Every movie used to just have this level of sexual tension in it.” — Griffin (26:00)

9. Peak Harrison Ford: The New ‘Real Guy,’ Not Just a Icon (27:20–29:41)

• Arguably “the best Ford ever looked” (Amanda, 27:32), the movie is unique in Ford’s work: “the first time he plays a guy in today” (David, 28:09) after a run of fantasy/adventure roles.

10. The Allure (and Aesthetics) of Physical Media (29:41–34:09)

• Griffin and Amanda deep-dive on the visual stakes of “boutique” home video: the tactile pleasures of boxes, steelbooks, “messy shelves,” and clashing collector aesthetics.
• “There is a symmetry to what's going on with the display of physical media that I find aesthetically offensive.” — Amanda (32:07)

11. From Australia to Amish Country: Making Witness (36:48–49:23)

• David and Griffin walk through the winding development: From rural-minded writers Pamela and Earl Wallace (original script: “Called Home”) to Fox, then Paramount; passing on Ford at first, then attaching him, cycling through directors, and finally Peter Weir steps in after Mosquito Coast momentarily falls apart.
• Ford’s only Oscar nod! The group ponders why Ford’s movie-star acting is undervalued by the Academy, and notes this as a “turning point” for both actor and director.
• “He brings them three scripts and Witness is the one he likes.” — Griffin (46:19)
• They discuss Weir’s “restraint as additive,” the importance of cutting bad dialogue and making eroticism implicit: “the most erotic version of this movie ... is the one where they’re not saying the thing.” (Griffin, 49:23)

12. Casting: Ford, McGillis, Glover, Goodenough, and the Child (57:10–62:40)

• Stories of recasting and screen tests: Ford vouches for Kelly McGillis; Amanda admires Weir’s choice to cast someone “new” so Rachel feels fresh to us, too.
• Lucas Haas’s legendary “moon eyes” give the film its gravity; more on the careful direction of the child actor.
• Danny Glover is recognized as a still-rising actor (pre-Lethal Weapon) who brings authenticity to his villainy.

13. Amish Representation and Acculturation (72:03–101:14)

• On location: filmed in Lancaster County, but not with real Amish (they declined to be filmed); the extras are largely Mennonites.
• Real Amish are described as ambivalent about the film; the group circles the ways mainstream films shortchange or stereotype real communities, but all agree that Witness is “very respectful.”
• Less “ha ha, look at these weirdos” and more gentle shock and mutual transformation.

14. Romance, Tension, and Ford’s Sex Appeal (115:11–119:19, 131:48–134:48)

• The panel lavishes praise on the dance-to-Sam Cooke scene—one of the most tender and gently sexy moments in ‘80s film.
• Amanda calls Ford her “last solid guy” crush and details what makes him appealing: his restraint, self-deprecation, mix of strength and real humanity.
• “He has shirtless scenes in both, you know, and he just really. Like, in the 80s, like, we didn’t have macro boys in the same way...” — Amanda (133:46)
• The scene of McGillis bathing, Ford arriving, and the silent, erotic gaze is highlighted as a perfect showcase for Peter Weir’s “show, don’t tell” philosophy.

15. Structure, Plotting, and the Ending (101:14–157:08)

• The group praises the screenplay’s chain of events (“great screenplay,” David, 90:30) and how well the film justifies its plot turns without feeling forced.
• Climactic moments like the barn-raising and final confrontation with the corrupt cops—especially the iconic silo “Corn-ing”—are examined for both their genre thrills and subtle meaning.
• “He maxes out on witnesses.” — David (157:07)
• The final goodbye (“You be careful out there among them English”) is discussed as a moving, wordless distillation of the film’s core theme: passionate connection versus community and duty.

16. The Legacy and the Modern Adult Movie (162:11–163:40)

• The show closes by lamenting the lack of contemporary equivalents to Witness—mid-budget, adult thrillers as star vehicles.
• “What’s the point of being Captain America if you’re not doing, like, this—which Harrison Ford was?” — Griffin (162:37)
• The recent turn of such IP into TV series is critiqued as creative dilution (“Apple TV is like, can we stretch it out?”—David, 163:13).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “He’s playing another iconic character... can we gabbo them into thinking, well, I'm supposed to know who John Book is.” — Griffin (01:11)
• “For 20 years... if you said ‘The Amish,’ people would be like, ‘From *Witness.’” — David (03:58)
• “In our side of the family the tradition is everyone sees everything too young?” — Griffin (07:44)
• “The most erotic version of this movie... is the one in which they’re not saying the thing.” — Griffin (49:23)
• “There is a symmetry to what’s going on with the display of physical media that I find aesthetically offensive.” — Amanda (32:07)
• “...they all kind of identify that Weir's big thing is the clash of two communities butting up against each other.” — Griffin (105:54)
• “He maxes out on witnesses.” — David (157:07)
• “What’s the point of being Captain America if you’re not doing like this–which Harrison Ford was...” — Griffin (162:37)

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Essential Timestamps by Segment

• 00:01–04:15 — Witness poster/name/marketing & 80s Ford
• 04:15–08:01 — Witness as “the Amish movie” & Philly
• 10:00–15:39 — Peter Weir miniseries & Witness’s personal impact for Amanda
• 17:05–22:33 — Barn raising / American Girl / generational media
• 25:03–27:20 — Sexlessness vs tension in modern/since-past movies
• 36:48–49:23 — Making Witness: history, Weir/Ford, restraint
• 57:10–62:40 — Casting stories: McGillis, Glover, Haas
• 72:03–101:14 — Amish portrayal; working in Lancaster County
• 115:11–119:19, 131:48–134:48 — Romance, dance scene, Ford’s appeal
• 157:07–158:53 — Final confrontation: witnesses
• 162:11–163:40 — Where did the adult star thriller go?

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Tone and Style

The conversation is playful, smart, often uproarious, and mixes warm nostalgia with astute film criticism. The hosts and guest trade personal anecdotes, hilarious riffs, and deep-dive analysis with the genuine affection that defines Blank Check.

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Conclusion

The episode is a loving dissection of Witness: part tribute to its subtlety and adulthood, part celebration of Ford’s peak charisma, and part lament for a genre and mode of filmmaking Hollywood has recklessly discarded. With Amanda Dobbins’s infectious energy and insight, it’s both a persuasive case for Witness as a canonical film and an object lesson in podcasting as pop-culture fellowship.

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Recommended for: Fans of Peter Weir, Harrison Ford, 80s Hollywood, physical media collecting, and anyone who’s ever wondered why movie romance doesn’t smolder like it used to.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the shadow is Black Jack. If we'd podcasted last night, I'd have to stay. Or you'd have to leave. That is the line of the movie for me. It's maybe a low energy way to start the podcast. It's the line of the movie.

[David Sims]

It's the tagline. You should just done the tagline.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, let me do the tagline now as an alternate. Let me do the tagline now as an alternate. I just really want to do that line.

[David Sims]

Go ahead, do it.

[Griffin Newman]

Harrison Ford is John Book, period. That's the biggest font.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then right down underneath it, almost like small print on the back of a aspirin bottle. A big city cop, a small country boy. They have nothing in common but a podcast.

[David Sims]

Exactly. That's why it's perfect.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you think putting Harrison Ford is John Book that big was them being like, we need to fucking Indiana Jones. This thing we need to sell.

[David Sims]

It's a good question.

[Griffin Newman]

He's playing another iconic character. Like, can we gabbo them into thinking, well, I'm supposed to know who John Book is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would like to talk about the name John Book.

[Griffin Newman]

It's one of the great names, incredible names.

[David Sims]

Maybe they're just so proud of the name. Go ahead.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It does feel like they picked the name John Book for that, like, franchise ability. Right. The Indiana Jones of it all. It's Mr. Book or. Yeah, just Book, you know, as Samuel calls him throughout the thing.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I do, yes. I think that it's. It's sort of like a big, bold Mad Libs attempt. Right. You know, we have Harrison Ford, we have John Book.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

A name, you know, a name you're going to know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And the guy had had a track record at this point of already creating two fucking beyond iconic franchise characters.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

What were you gonna say, David?

[David Sims]

I. I'd like to know. I'd love to, you know, sit in on whatever meeting this was back when. Because it's like, yeah, how do you automatically sell this? Right? You know, like, it's not. This is not. Oh, we know what to do. It's about an Amish boy who witnesses a crime at a train station. And then, of course, the cop has to hide it. You know, like, you can't do that. Right? You can't. You can't set that up in a poster.

[Griffin Newman]

Beautiful painting of Harrison Ford's face. And then if you look closely, you're like, is that an Amish boy? But even the tagline, it's just a little.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it looks like Children of the Corn. Like, if you just look at the

[Griffin Newman]

boy, but it's in darkness, so it's like. It's a little abstract, I think. You look.

[David Sims]

He had just been to the Temple of Doom, and before that, he had returned with the Jedi. He had run with the blades. He'd raided the Lost Ark.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[David Sims]

So, like, it's one of those things where it's like, this is Harrison Ford.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And he's playing another guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

I guess that really is just the overriding thing of, like, you like it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

When Harrison Ford plays a person with a name.

[Griffin Newman]

I just think that Blade Runner had bombed.

[David Sims]

Yeah, Blade Runner had bombed. The others had not.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And Indiana Jones is sold on adventure. Has a name. Right, Right.

[David Sims]

Indiana Jones that.

[Griffin Newman]

If they're trying to do the like, okay, what worked, what didn't thing. They were like, will people go see a Harrison Ford movie if they feel like we're introducing him to his next guy?

[David Sims]

I think that's.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes, I think you're totally right. But you can't enumerate what the guy does because it milks a cow. You know, like, fixes a car, dances, dance.

[David Sims]

Sam Cooke. Yeah, we'll talk about it.

[Griffin Newman]

There's no way to explain it. And even the poster is saying, like, city cop, country boy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right, right.

[David Sims]

Which is. That's. That's good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not a lie.

[David Sims]

No. I would hate for them to lie.

[Griffin Newman]

But if you were to ask anyone now to describe Witness, you'd be like the Amish movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure, of course. No, no, no. You'd cook and the bar.

[David Sims]

No. What. Here's what. Witnesses. If you said the Amish people would be like the Witness people, you're right. For 20 years.

[Griffin Newman]

It defines.

[David Sims]

I think at this point, that's not true anymore. But I think in the 80s and 90s, you're the Amish. Oh, from Witness. Yes, the guys from Witness.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. This movie almost had, like, a Rain man autism effect.

[David Sims]

If you live in Pennsylvania, you're not like that. But if you live in Switzerland.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

You're like, yeah, I know the Amish. From Witness.

[Griffin Newman]

From Witness.

[David Sims]

They might have well be made up to me. Like, maybe. Were they made up for that movie? Is that a real thing or not? I don't even know. Who knows?

[Griffin Newman]

No one knows. I don't. I. I'll be astonished if JJ has a definitive answer if in his research he found out for certain whether or not the Amish exists. It's an unanswerable question. We pay a researcher there's. It's just beyond his ability this week.

[David Sims]

You ever been to Amish country?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I haven't.

[David Sims]

You're married to a Pennsylvania, so I

[Amanda Dobbins]

have been to 30th Street Station, of course, which is where inciting incident. And I am, I'm here in New York with you guys, which is so lovely. And I've been sitting with my sister in law, Ruthie, also a native Philadelphia. And she was telling me both she and Zach, my husband said yes. This movie was shown to us as a Philadelphia movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

It is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We were, we were sat down at a young age and we were like, Philadelphia.

[David Sims]

My friend who lives in Philadelphia, I texted her right away, I'm watching a Philly movie, baby. And yes, it's like only 20 minutes worth, but sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But then what Ruthie told me that my husband had not told me and maybe doesn't recall is that my husband was then terrified to go to the bathroom at the 30th street station. Makes perfect for many years.

[David Sims]

Does the bathroom look like that or is it a set? Like, does it. I mean, I assume now it does not have wooden.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I actually haven't been in the men's bathroom at 30th Street.

[David Sims]

Research next time you come to my podcast.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I honestly don't know if I've been in the women's bathroom either, but be

[Griffin Newman]

a bit of a JJ now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, I do think that it's on the outside, you know, it looks the same. And that's, that's enough for him to say, I don't want to do it. This also ties, ties into the fact that I, I believe my father in law was showing them movies a little bit sooner than perhaps they were emotionally ready, which is like what we did in the 80s, right?

[David Sims]

Look, I don't know. You're a mother, you're a parent to kids.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, you're constantly like, is this

[David Sims]

the moment for this or are we not ready for this?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Not really. I'm just like, here is the first hour of Top Gun Maverick because you like airplanes and, and also I have found that there's. My older son is three and a half now, but for a while he didn't understand the concept of scary.

[David Sims]

No, they don't, they don't know until.

[Amanda Dobbins]

For a while to be scared and he wasn't engaging with the emotional stuff.

[David Sims]

And then that, that appears later.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. So there was like a lot of stuff at age 2 and a half that he could be into. And now he's. And now he's like. I can tell that everyone is like, is very tense and I don't like this.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it's like that thing when a kid falls and they can't decide whether to cry and.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Totally. Right, totally.

[David Sims]

And you go like, you're okay, you're going.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But also Halloween decorations. He's still like, everything that's supposed to be gory and gross. He just toddles right up and is like, hey, look at these lights. He likes, you know, because he doesn't know that it's supposed to be grow. He has a. It's. It's learned behavior, I guess.

[Griffin Newman]

My. My 10 year old little cousin who I take to movies a lot. His dad, when I was growing up was the one who took me to movies I shouldn't see and slid me Guns and Roses albums and whatever.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

And I dropped him off after a movie and he and his wife, we're not arguing, but we're like, we want your opinion on this. Because we've been going back and forth and for years it had been like, hey, don't show George this. He might be too young. Like I was like very respectful. But they seemed very cautious about what was being fed to him. And they were like, am I crazy in thinking that in our side of the family the tradition is everyone sees everything too young?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And I was like, a little bit of it. There were certainly things my parents banned, but then like R rated comedies, this and that. And he was like. And none of us turned out fucked up. Right. And I'm like, I don't know. We can debate this. And then between that conversation and the next time I saw George, he had seen every R rated movie on the planet.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, that's how we did it in our generation.

[Griffin Newman]

And he seems to be doing well even. Nothing's wrong.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Don't.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't make that face, David. You're not hanging out with George.

[David Sims]

We're all up is all I want to say.

[Griffin Newman]

Up. Of course I'm.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But we have incredible taste.

[Griffin Newman]

We do.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, podcasters, grown ups. And now there was either. Even. Even the stuff for kids in the 80s. Very. Really?

[David Sims]

That's the real.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the big problem.

[David Sims]

Is that problem or that was the. That was the tenor. Yes, exactly. Of children's entertainment.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And now everything is for eight year olds. Whether you' eight or 42.

[David Sims]

It's interesting. I saw Tron, which I'm not yet.

[Griffin Newman]

Congratulations, by the way.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know.

[David Sims]

And of course, this is posting six months after. But, you know, that's a film for teenagers. I mean, and for grown, important, mature men like me, but mostly for teenagers. And it has imagery in it of, like, people kind of disintegrating because they're digital creatures. You know, all the Tron de Resin. Yeah. That, like, I was like, objectively, this is quite nightmarish. This is like a person crumbling into ash, sort of. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That's also like every ambling.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

And then I was like, I guess that's just sort of baked into. Right. Like action, kids, adventure.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also. Yes.

[David Sims]

But now, like, the tech is so good that it's like. This is like. I just watched Jody Turner Smith's Beautiful Person.

[Griffin Newman]

Spoilers.

[David Sims]

Well, they're always. They de res like 4 billion. Everyone in that movie is de resing and unresping and re resing.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just funny that you, like, come to the realization, I guess. Tron areas is ostensibly for teenagers.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Three times in a row.

[David Sims]

The real question with decades Tron, like, is this for anybody?

[Griffin Newman]

For teenagers? And every time teenagers bat it the fuck down, and then like, 20 years later, they're like, okay, I think we've identified who it's actually for. Teenagers.

[David Sims]

What's our podcast?

[Griffin Newman]

Our podcast is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin and David.

[David Sims]

And who's our guest? Well, first, what's the podcast about?

[Griffin Newman]

Way this podcast goes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Podcast about filmography is director to a massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's a man who had arc one, act one success, and then this is his turning point into Act 2.

[David Sims]

Well, this is his Hollywood. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. This is his leap to Hollywood.

[Griffin Newman]

Nothing bounced yet, but it was just.

[David Sims]

No, not at all. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

The credit was mounting in Australia.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And he makes the leap now and does it with flying colors. We're talking about Peter Weir.

[David Sims]

We are, we are.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a miniseries called Podnik at Hanging Cast.

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

Because David thinks that Podnick is the funniest thing anyone's ever seen.

[David Sims]

I think Podnik is really funny. I want to give credit to JJ who pitched Podnick at Hanging Cast and is fired now.

[Griffin Newman]

I wanted to do Podster and Castmander, the pod side of the cast, because I was like, this is a rare opportunity to get two pods and two casts into one title.

[David Sims]

It didn't move me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I was like. And I. I just, despite being a podcaster, am more of a. A visual than an audio learner. So I was, like, really hanging on there.

[Griffin Newman]

Visually, it was gonna be. Visually, it was gonna be tough. Yeah. Our guest today returned to the show.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

For only the second time. And look, this is on me. I should never look at the Reddit, but I happened to check last night.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Why did you look at the Reddit? I don't want to know. I mean, I guess you've been blowing

[Griffin Newman]

in the wrong direction, huh? And the Reddit thread was. How has Amanda Dobbins only been on once? And Sean Fennesee has been on three times. All caps. You slash Travis Bickle. Well, and I didn't weigh him, but

[Amanda Dobbins]

I just want to. In your defense, you guys, you do like to do it in person, which I like as well. Sean has been here more. I was on parental leave for a while.

[David Sims]

Exactly. You had child.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I'm back in the mix. I think I pregnant for Thomas Crown Affair and not telling anyone.

[Griffin Newman]

So that's.

[David Sims]

Wait, so you were lying to me?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think it was. It was a sin of omission. Thank you so much. Yes. So, you know, and listen, our. Our. Our society is structured, you know, inequally when it comes to. To. To women having it all and having access to being in person.

[Griffin Newman]

For women only get 33.3% of the podcast appearances that men get.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's true. But I'm back.

[David Sims]

You're back.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm done.

[Griffin Newman]

Amanda Dobbins.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Not gonna happen again.

[David Sims]

You done? I'm.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I am out o u t. No.

[Griffin Newman]

This is what I want to talk about.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Of having children. Not a Blake check. Okay. No, no, no, no. This is the beginning.

[David Sims]

This, like, Amanda and I are just connecting on this moment because it is

[Amanda Dobbins]

second time, so just declaring it. Draw the heavy line places as possible. No, no. Much like Peter Weir. Yeah. That was my Australian new wave face.

[David Sims]

Right. And it's here.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I am Hollywood, baby.

[Griffin Newman]

Right now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Harrison Ford is John Book.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Is me John Book.

[Griffin Newman]

Now here's the other part of it.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

This now your second appearance.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like these are two of the three movies I hear you cite the most as feeling, like, the most impactful on your development as, like, a movie fan and a movie watcher.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

It has now created a standard, which isn't to say we can't have you on for something else, but it feels like in both of these cases.

[David Sims]

Oh, that's true. Right. Thomas Crown of formative.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. We laugh on the director, and I say to David Dobbins and we just text you, and you immediately text. All caps. Absolutely. It was just an obvious slam dunk.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So these are also films that, like, were successful.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

At the time, but are not canonized. They're a little forgotten in the. In the. In the general. I was thinking about Film nerd.

[David Sims]

Yes. I guess that's a good way to put it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But they were. They were important to my cinematic development, and I've got a whole lot more of those. Have you guys done Run Howard yet?

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Apollo 13. Book it right now.

[Griffin Newman]

The other one I was. John, book it. The other one I was gonna say, I feel like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

In that trilogy is Working Girl. I feel like Working Girl. Witness.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like a three to five thousand. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Are the three. I always hear.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I have one more for you.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Even though I'm pretty sure. Well, first of all, like, have you done Rob Reiner?

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Well, here's the whole issue with Rob Reiner.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know it falls off a cliff.

[David Sims]

It falls off.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It falls off a cliff. But that's fine.

[David Sims]

We could do pre. Cliff Reiner would. Is this sort of deal?

[Amanda Dobbins]

First of all, I hosted what I believe was my 10th, maybe 11th birthday party at the movie theater to see north, so.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But that's not my pick.

[Griffin Newman]

A movie that is a stealth, which is Witness sequel.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, sure. But is also. But it's off the cliff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

North is the beginning. It's the cliff. Right, sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, but, but, but American President, you know, it's like. Is another one.

[David Sims]

American President is after North. I believe in his filmography. And so that's when he pulls the parachute and it deploys.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

American President.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And he's like, I still got it.

[David Sims]

The parachute starts.

[Griffin Newman]

No, he said the Catch on Fire parachute works. He just happens to land inside of a volcano.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Yeah. American President. I know. Is a big one for you. I would love to do that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So, you know, there is a whole.

[Griffin Newman]

There's. There are others.

[David Sims]

There's others.

[Griffin Newman]

It just feels like we've gotten two huge ones.

[David Sims]

But, you know, in Apollo 13, American President and Thomas Crown Affair. That's. And you're. We're similar ages. Like, that's your, you know, becoming like a teenager. Like, these are movies from the mid-90s that we watched. Same for me. Witness is from the 80s.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And witness, maybe for you. It was. For me was a. A home video.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, absolutely.

[David Sims]

I think you're kind of ready for this movie, because this is like, you know. You know, there's In a perfect world, this would be rated, I guess, like, well, in this sort of the British rating. Like this is kind of a rated 15 movie. Right. Where it's like a little violence.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. It has a pair of tits, it

[Griffin Newman]

has a hint of nudity, single parrot.

[David Sims]

But like, by and large it's not too intense. And it's, it's, it's adult, but it's sort of like, you know, you can engage with it as a teenager.

[Griffin Newman]

Falls into the category of if you're interested in watching this, you're old enough to watch this. Right?

[David Sims]

Right. Like, no, like, hey, this movie has zero lasers.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And you're like, yeah, well, I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

You're going to have to really lock in to get to the boobs and the boobs are going to make you a little emotionally confused.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right? Yeah.

[David Sims]

And.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

It's a movie about no excitement, violence. Oh, is it about how the Amish are super weird? No, it's kind of engaging with them as a community in a mature way.

[Griffin Newman]

It is the mildest kind of culture shock comedy.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

In. In how like the gentlest comedy, deftly it is underplayed.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. There, I mean, there is one stabbing at the beginning.

[David Sims]

There is, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Or like throat slashing.

[David Sims]

I guess it's a throat slash.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There's a shootout at the end. Like, you know, there's someone drowns in corn. Dramatic corn.

[David Sims]

If you showed this to a 10

[Amanda Dobbins]

year old, it would go as, you know, I live with two young men who are. So there's, there's that aspect of it. Maybe I should just show them the barn scene. Barn raising on YouTube.

[David Sims]

They might like it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's a great one.

[David Sims]

The barn raising is one of those things where you're like, this is real like, you know, when you're a young person. Right. You know, still, I mean. And I.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, so also I grew up speaking of the 80s in like the first wave American Girl doll situations. So I had a Kirsten.

[David Sims]

Okay. And she's from like Minnesota.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is. She is, she's Midwestern. And it's like. But she's like a Scandinavian immigrant Swedish girl from 1845. And, and like, and they came with a set of books, you know, and there was one that was like, how did this person. How is this person. The introductory one. There's like a birthday one, a Christmas one. I'm sure I'm like a school one. Probably.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like. And anyway, the, like a party one. I don't know. There was one about a barn raising.

[David Sims]

Oh, interesting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And they, like, had a barn raising and then, like, a party in the barn. And this so witness was, like, really important to me in terms of visually realizing this event that I had only read about in the context. So the doll predates of the original six box set.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Kirsten. American Girl Doll series.

[Griffin Newman]

Think about how messy the American Girl Doll canon has gotten.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I can't keep. Because it used to be tight.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not the normies can't find an entry point. You got to do to pick up one doll.

[David Sims]

And there's like a 2000s. One what? She likes Chumba Wumba. Like, what is this?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, but also, apparently they just introduced that Samantha, another of the originals. And listen, I. You know, the original three there was. It. It was a pretty singular demographic.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, which was, you know, white lady. White ladies with means. So it's. It's good that they expanded the bounds.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But apparently Samantha, one of the originals, now has a great granddaughter who you can buy. Yeah.

[David Sims]

They're, like, trying to do. Let's not do this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

Samantha doll isn't, like, 80 now, right. You're, like, dealing with Samantha.

[David Sims]

He's frozen in time.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's what I'm saying. The idea of, like, dealing with two child dolls in different temporalities as if it's fucking frequency.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know what? I'm just. I. This is how diseased my brain is. But just right now, I was thinking about, like, yeah, the Poshmark market for, like, American Girls doll stuff must be probably, like, Valhalla. It must be the most incredible thing, because I had that catalog. I was just thinking about Samantha's tea set and the little, like, iced cupcakes or glazes or like, maybe it's ice cream. Because her thing is, she makes ice cream.

[David Sims]

You know, they make dolls for the dolls. I'm. Well, yes, I'm well aware. It's a. It's a.

[Ben Hosley]

Is your daughter now getting into it?

[David Sims]

Not yet, but I mean, those are on cold storage, like, waiting. Because, you know, my wife, I think, had a couple, and then her sister had a couple. This is a family of girls, and they're all just, you know, locked away. My daughter's still, I think, too young to fully engage with them.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Totally.

[David Sims]

And she's obviously also just all the way in on Spider man and mostly cares about what Green Goblin is up to, not what I think the kid was up to.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Healthier, you know?

[Ben Hosley]

I guess so.

[David Sims]

But they're coming. Yeah, they're coming. And then Maybe one day I'll be on Poshmark.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But the tea set was like little wicker chairs and it had all the accoutrement. It was so beautiful. And I'm just like, I, I. Their resale market must be amazing. Like I think I feel right now the way that Sean feels when talking about physical media. I'm just like, I can't imagine the possibilities.

[David Sims]

But my question for you is, do you have yours? Are they, I don't know, in a box? And like now that you had two sons not to be binary, is it possible, right. That these will not.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would absolutely get home if they wanted to. My mom, bless her, did her downsizing on her own a couple years ago and she didn't. First of all, she gave away all my babysitters clubs like 15 years ago and I had like a full set. I mean I wasn't like, you know, I wasn't up to date. But it was originals, like 1 through 1 25, like first edition.

[David Sims]

Like I was on that show my Goosebumps.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then she didn't check in about the American Girl dolls. So I don't know about that. We do. The boys do have my cabbage patch. Clifton.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

There you go.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that seemed. Because I think my mom thought that was a little more gender neutral. So then you're getting into generational dolls.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Then you're dealing with the grandparents opinions on what dolls should be played by what children.

[Griffin Newman]

Clarify. When your mom downsizes, you move into leisure land.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You have a downsizing reference.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, David, because we're coming up on Halloween. I just have one question. Are you gonna allow your daughter pumpkins?

[David Sims]

Well, but she's like.

[Ben Hosley]

And I don't say we should light them on fire.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but she might be confused. She might be confused if she sees a little pumpkin.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, well she, there's a lot of little pumpkins around.

[David Sims]

She, she loves little pumpkins and every. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know who else does?

[David Sims]

Gobby.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But she knows if Green Goblin again is like a sort of gentle mischief maker, not homicidal maniac.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's good.

[Griffin Newman]

Kills girls.

[David Sims]

Like I don't think think she's gonna like meeting Willem Dafoe like whenever that day comes for her when she's like 9 years old.

[Griffin Newman]

I always think your kid's not gonna like meeting Willem Dafoe. And yet when you get there, it's just in time.

[David Sims]

Like this to me seems like the only downside to Spidey and his amazing friends that like later when I'm like, so here's Green Goblin. She's like, that's not my Green Goblin. He is not ruining Mother's Day like he is.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know about this show, Amanda?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I do.

[Griffin Newman]

Are your sons infected with this?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, they don't. So what happened? So they're. My children go to a Montessori school. So no characters allowed at school.

[David Sims]

No character allowed. Your kid can't show up with, like, a Snoopy Snuffy. No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No branding.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. So that has sort of, like, delayed things a little. But he did come home the other day and. Or a couple weeks ago, and he was like, dad, I want to watch Batman.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And my husband instinctively was like, I don't know what that is. And he's. I've never heard of this. And then my three.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that protocol for everything?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Basically was like, dad, it's a beautiful film. I want to see it. And. And my dad and Zach was like, well, we don't have that here. You know, I guess, like, I. You know, I don't. I don't know. Maybe I'll look into it, but we can't watch it right now. And for now, that was acceptable to him. Yeah. But he does also think Tom Cruise is coming to his birthday party. So I don't really.

[David Sims]

Like, from. From, like, he thinks Maverick will show up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, no, no. Because now he's really into, like, parachutes and stuff. So now I, like, show him Tom. I'd show him the Making of Featurettes, but here's the thing. Because he's so young and he's. The featurettes are much better because they show Tom Cruise practicing, and then they show, like, all the safety measures. And it is every time, right before they go to the final stunt, he whispers to me, I'm gonna like this, right? And I'm like, you will like it because he can do it. And, you know, I keep saying, like, look how safe he is. Look how they're practicing. But so, no, he now understands Tom Cruise as Tom Cruise, and so he does think he's coming to his birthday party. I don't know what to do about that.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But we haven't gotten to Spidey and Friends yet.

[David Sims]

They'll be there for you whenever you need because they're heroes.

[Griffin Newman]

I turn this out to Sims. I don't think we've said this on Mike, but I'm really curious if there's going to be a thing 15 years from now where the entire generation who grew up on the show, because basically everyone I know with a kid under 8 is like, like my life is infected with Spidey and his amazing friends. If the movies are gonna have to adjust to that canon in the way that David is joking.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Where they're like, well, my version of Spider man is constantly vexed by Green Goblin stealing his lunch.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And I need to see that in the movies. I've been waiting my entire life to see it in live action.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, they're tiptoeing that way.

[Griffin Newman]

It's all.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I guess it's true what happens. Like people die in the. In the last one. That's sad.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Rip.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Marisa Tomei blown into a wall.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was really sad about that. And she looked so good.

[David Sims]

She looks. She was. She honestly killed for the crime of hotness.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

That Aunt May was just too hot.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, culture came from. I look, I will say this just connect threads here, right?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Instagram thread. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben Husley and I, producer Ben.

[David Sims]

What's up?

[Griffin Newman]

We're on daily Zeitgeist podcast.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Is that New York podcast?

[Griffin Newman]

LA podcast.

[David Sims]

Okay. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And Jack asked us. He was sort of speed rounding like movie conversation talking points that he was like, I listen to your show and I want to have these discussions with you guys. And he was like the whole thing of like movies becoming sexless. Right. And like, what is perpetuating this? Is this a younger generation that is skittish about it? Is it about the studios? Is about movies translating overseas or whatever. We litigated this whole thing. Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The thing I really locked into was I. I think what is less discussed isn't like in the 80s, Michael Douglas used to everyone against a wall and now there's no sex in anything. What I feel like is under discussed is the witness thing of like every movie used to just have this level of sexual tension in it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, I thought you were gonna say every movie used to have just like one pair of tits and it like wasn't a big deal.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that was.

[David Sims]

I do think that is a little. I mean, look, still have nudity.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But like not in the. But it's. If they do, it's like a. Ooh. Like come see so and so's. You know, and come see someone's dick now because the men will also be full frontal.

[David Sims]

There are many more dicks.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I can't deny that it's more common to see a dick.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But this is sort of just like a European like, oh, okay. Well, like there they are.

[Griffin Newman]

I think there was some of that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's the human body look.

[Griffin Newman]

There were also Many movies in the 80s and 90s, 90s that were built entirely on look at how many tits you're gonna see. And they were not presented in a European way. But I do. I kept while watching this movie again last night thinking about the Marvel, like, everyone is beautiful and nobody thing. Where you're like, this is the exact inverse of that. In that, like, here you have. I feel like you've said it many times. I'm inclined to agree. Harrison Ford, the best he has ever looked on screen.

[David Sims]

Well, it's this and Working Girl, which are back.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Talk about it. They are. So this is like his ideal phase of life.

[David Sims]

Yes, I. I would agree. I mean, how old would he have been? He would have been like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's like 40.

[David Sims]

He's like 43. No, I know. And hey, that's fine.

[Griffin Newman]

All power to him. But this, I feel like even more so than Working Girl, because Working Girl has the, like, movie sheen on it. Like, for how much he is genetically blessed and was taking great care of himself. Harrison Ford does look like a real person in this movie.

[David Sims]

100.

[Griffin Newman]

It is that amazing thing where you can see someone who has, like, movie star, like, you know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Glow. And yet the movie doesn't make them, like, perfectly groomed and hairless.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Let me. Let me.

[Griffin Newman]

Poreless. What?

[David Sims]

I gotta stop you here. It's not just what you're talking about. This is the first time he plays a guy in today.

[Amanda Dobbins]

In the. In the world.

[David Sims]

In a movie, basically. I mean, excluding, you know, as a leading man, little movies that he did earlier on. But, like, since he has become a star.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

And done like, you know, the run of, like, Star Wars, Apocalypse now, briefly, obviously. Frisco, Kid, Empire Strikes Back, Raiders, Blade Runner.

[Griffin Newman]

Return of the Jedi is present day.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but that's. That's, you know, but like. No, I'm saying, like, this is like, Harrison Ford is in our world. Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Working girl is 88. I forgot. I always think it's 86. So it's. It's a little later.

[Griffin Newman]

This is 84.

[David Sims]

Is 85.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. 85.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wow.

[David Sims]

But, like, this is the first time that we have seen him wearing regular clothes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Drinking a cup of, well, sort of.

[Griffin Newman]

Hot Joe. Hot Joe.

[David Sims]

Well, he does, of course, then go plain, right? He goes plane mode.

[Griffin Newman]

Plane mode.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Plain on main.

[Ben Hosley]

The cut of those pants is very contemporary, though, in a funny way, it is true.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It is very late. Millennial. Except he is wearing socks. But yes, the high cut and then obviously the crop, you know, short some

[Griffin Newman]

ankle I was just watching all the special features on. Not to tempt you, Amanda, but the. This lovely premium witness.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know Tracy Letts gave out two copies, and neither was to me. I texted him after the.

[David Sims]

I mean, you weren't even present for that virginity convention.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just saying this is a good object. This doesn't look like a GameStop. That's a good object.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It. I mean, that's true.

[Griffin Newman]

You hear the knock of this. Not plastic.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So one thing, as you're sitting there and I'm in the same room with you as you, as you.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of things on my desk.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There is like. Like we've gotten past the plastic. That. That's not plastic. And you. You guys talk a lot about steel books.

[David Sims]

You got the metal one.

[Griffin Newman]

We love the steel books. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But the symmetry of it. It still just is a box, you know, and it's just like. They're like rows of boxes, you know, and it all just kind of looks like boxes. So that's another thing that you should work on. That's. But that's my feedback.

[Griffin Newman]

I know this is Sean's case, but when you have something like this. Sean's argument, I should say rather for this type of case.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Like a hardback slip slip. Right. Hard box slip. Is that. Then it starts to look more like a book, but for you. But you're not buying that John book.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But. But they're still all like. It's. It's the aesthetics of when they're lined up.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. And they're all, like, flat, and the edges are rounded and they just, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

You dislike that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I don't. I think that you need more texture. You need more variety for it to look. It starts to look a little. It looks flat.

[Ben Hosley]

I agree.

[David Sims]

Where's the steel?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I.

[Griffin Newman]

True.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I also. I mean, I keep hearing about the steel books. Don't know if I've ever seen one. Irl.

[Ben Hosley]

I see no shine. I see no texture. I see no metal.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, but it's like, think about a bookcase where, you know. Okay. Oh, we're holding a Steelbook. Okay, now I'm holding a Steelbook. Oh, it's Master and Commander Steelbook. Okay. So I.

[Ben Hosley]

But what if it was wearing a hat?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Ben, I would agree with you that, first of all, I don't know how to open this, but it's a little tug there.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It might be a little tight in that center.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This isn't like the steel that built the American railroads, you know, It's a steel rail.

[David Sims]

When you open it up.

[Griffin Newman]

It's plastic guts.

[David Sims]

You ain't right. You can't drive a train down them discs. It's true.

[Griffin Newman]

I just, I think if it was American railroad steel, everyone's shelves would be collapsing all the time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But like, think about a bookcase that looks good to you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, uh huh. It is almost never all of the same size, binding color, all like all in a row. Like the sets look weird and you can tell when someone does not have a book collection and they have a large bookcase and they buy one of the old gaudy sets and you're just like, oh, that looks kind of like fake and unused.

[Griffin Newman]

I love that we're having this conversation.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There's a symmetry to what's going on with the display of physical media that I find aesthetically offensive.

[Griffin Newman]

Now let me say this. Amanda.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Your podcast co host, Sean Feny.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

The king of the symmetrical stack. Right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The photos are, everything has to be lined up perfectly. Right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Not on his shelves but when he's posting, like doing my Spike Lee research.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Perfect stack.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of physical media, media collectors like ourselves want the perfect symmetry on the shelf. They want everything the same and in fact it will drive them crazy if a movie is released in a different form factor that's not going to line up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I, I, I do know that.

[Griffin Newman]

And so I don't feel this way. I'm with you. Where I like, I wouldn't say a messy shelf but I like the variety. I like the idea of like peaks and valleys and different shapes and, and like Criterion will do this sometimes. So they'll be like we tried something different with the packaging and people, people go ballistic. They put out train spotting in a, a, like a package that they were like, this is a reference to 90s like British promotional CDs and it was thinner and taller.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And people lost their minds and I'm like good, give it to me. Make it all look different.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But I, I do think that some of it, it just people have different tastes and people have different aesthetics and Sean is, yeah, bless him, a neat freak and a quote unquote minimalist. And his house is, is clean lines.

[David Sims]

I was about to say.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, and he doesn't like things out and I live in a sea of books and if I could have 18 different prints and patterns in one room, you know, like this is how I live my life.

[Griffin Newman]

Embrace the chaos.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would like the Marie Antoinette set designer to come to my house next. You know, so, so, so it's, it Is it is purely at some point. Like. Like I prefer this color to this color. Like I prefer this look to this look. But it's the. I. I find the symmetry unnerving and it does not disagree with you.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Freaks me out.

[Griffin Newman]

Look at this big chunky picnic at Hanging Rock. Look at this. No plastic here. You know what I'm saying? I got the novel in here. The book is in the set.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm sorry, I. I am here as a chaos monster. I'm not helping you. You know I'm not be a chaos monster.

[David Sims]

Please do you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I didn't even know what kind of

[David Sims]

guests we have sometimes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know, but I just.

[David Sims]

You're no monster.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, Sean keeps me like, I. I try sometimes to stay on the tracks, but here I'm just like, let's talk.

[Griffin Newman]

We're pulling the rips.

[David Sims]

That's why we like to be in person.

[Griffin Newman]

David.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

This episode is brought to you by Moo you movie.

[David Sims]

Oh, the global film company the champions Great cinema. Oh, the global film company the champions Great cinema. The global film company Iconic directors emerging auteur is always something new to discover movies films are hand selected. You can explore the best of cinema.

[Griffin Newman]

Give me one example. David Gibbon.

[David Sims]

No. They have a new movie that's streaming on movie in the U.S. it's Father, Mother, Sister, Brother. It's the Jim Jarmusch movie from last year. The one. The Golden Lion.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a film from Venice that regretfully. Regretfully, regretfully, regretfully. You and I both didn't get a chance to catch up with.

[David Sims]

But now I will be able to enjoy this funny, tender and gently moving exploration of the universal intricacies of family dynamics. Tom Waits, Adam Driver, Mayim Bialik, Charlotte Rampling.

[Griffin Newman]

Why are you listening? Take Blanchett, Vicky Creeps, all the people who were invited to Ben's birthday party.

[David Sims]

It's a triptych, right? There's a New Jersey section, a Dublin section, a Paris section. Obviously Jarmusch has done some such storytelling before. Night on Earth and such coffee and cigarettes. Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's about the relationships between adult children, their somewhat distant parent or parents and each other. I simply cannot relate.

[Ben Hosley]

I know, right? Having a complicated relationship with your parents.

[David Sims]

So you can watch that and you can watch all the other great stuff they've got at MUBI to stream the best of cinema. You can try MUBI free for 30 [e-mail] blankcheck that's M u b I.com blankcheck for a whole Month of great cinema for free. I want to tell you guys something you might not know. Peter Weir's from Australia.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Really?

[David Sims]

Did you guys know that? What Peter Weir grew up in Australia is Australian. Made many Australian films.

[Griffin Newman]

The Hat Trick.

[David Sims]

But he did like American movies and was kind of raised on them. How can you not, Right. Hollywood, it's all over the world.

[Griffin Newman]

Hollywood, sure.

[David Sims]

And so pretty quickly in his career, he says around when he made the Last Wave, which is his third film, he starts kind of getting an eye on. He's like, you know, this town a big enough like, you know, he's starting to get a little sick of the sort of scale of Australian projects. Right. The extent to which, I think, especially

[Griffin Newman]

in the 80s, it's not the start of. But there's a real surge in. If someone makes an interesting film in a foreign country that crosses over a little bit, time to bring them over to Hollywood and slot him into the machine. You know, I think there's a little bit less of everyone works in their own country and more of eventually. We're getting you over here.

[David Sims]

The Thornbirds. The 19. What is it, like 1980 film, the Thornbirds. You guys know this film based on a

[Amanda Dobbins]

film?

[David Sims]

No, it was just the whole thing. It was a miniseries, but based on the Australian novel by Colleen McCullough, because

[Griffin Newman]

that was Richard Chamberlain as well.

[David Sims]

Well, it's being set up initially as a film that was going to be directed by Herbert Ross and star Robert Redford, Rest in Peace. And he. Herbert Ross was, I think, you know, getting old. And so he was being pushed aside. And they were like, maybe you can do this. You're Australian, you know, Right. You'll. You'll get. It's set in the outback. Like, you'll get it. And he circled it, but wasn't that interested, so he backed off. And eventually that got shunted to miniseries, as, you know, 19. 1983 is when it came out.

[Griffin Newman]

His recent leading man.

[David Sims]

Right from the Last Wave.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And instead he. Weir does two more Australian films. He does Gallipoli and he does Year of Living Dangerously, which is an Australian production, but MGM has a little bit of money in it. And so it's sort of like half a step into Hollywood. And Mel Gibson is, like, not quite a Hollywood star yet, but is about to be. I was gonna say, like, it's all inching.

[Griffin Newman]

It is interesting that Mel Gibson kind of functions as that turnkey for both George Miller and Peter Weir, where they had worked with him before, and he was crossing over and it was like, if you can get Mel again. You get to make a movie that's like half Hollywood.

[David Sims]

Now moving on from him for a second, back to Witness. This was originally called Called Home, which is what the Amish refer to dying as being called home.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure, it's a good title. When you have that explained to you on its face, it is quite a bad title.

[David Sims]

It's not a great title. Romance novelist Pamela Wallace and her husband, Earl W. Wallace, who is a. A guy who worked on the TV show Gunsmoke for a long time, had rented a home in Amish country. They'd kind of gotten interested in the Amish and they start working on a screenplay that would be about an Amish woman falling for a big city guy. Okay, makes sense. Earl Wallace brings in a guy called William Kelly who also worked on Gunsmoke.

[Griffin Newman]

That movie was gonna be called Not Working Girl. I was trying to see if I could draft a better wording of it in my head, and I just gave up and.

[David Sims]

And you know, yeah, knocked it out there. That guy had worked on like, westerns and stuff. How the west was one. He has a credit on this screenplay, ends up in the hands of a producer called Edward Feldman in 1983. It's like 180 pages. It's very heavy on, like Amish life. Right. It's very invested in all of that, but they're nonetheless interested. Well, he's options it. Yeah, yeah, he options it.

[Griffin Newman]

He has a first look deal at Fox at the time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Time.

[David Sims]

And the head of Fox at the time, Joe Wisan, takes a look at it and says, we don't do rural movies. Which is. It's quite a line. Yeah, you're always hearing about execs saying things like that. Yeah, we don't do rural. What does that mean? What, we can't go leave the city, like, ever? Like, what are you talking about?

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, as he puts it, he read the script, he was like, this concept is great. It's really overwritten. And he makes a deal with them where he's going to pay the writers $25,000 to have a one year option and get a rewrite out of them.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And that, that he doesn't have to pay them the remaining $225,000 unless it actually gets greenlit. And so he runs downstairs and he's like, I'm excited. I just made a great deal. Look at how great of a deal maker I am. And they were like, what the fuck is this rural trash?

[David Sims]

So they do the rewrite, he brings it back to Fox. He gets the same answer. We don't do rural pictures. He sends the script to Harrison Ford's agent on a Thursday. By Monday, Ford was on board and

[Griffin Newman]

he was like, rural picture, huh? And they're like, yeah, no, we still feel this way about it. Put it in turnaround.

[David Sims]

But he takes a rural picture with Harrison Ford.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And they still don't want him in. No, but it's crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Takes it to Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers is like, Harrison Ford is too expensive. Takes it to MGM who says Harrison Ford can't act. Which I guess is what I'm trying to say about like, it's like, I guess he'd only been in these genre films and maybe there's still some impression of like, oh, he just does these big budget distractions. Like they're, you know, he doesn't play a real.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Has like a one liner and, you know, then jumps over something.

[Griffin Newman]

This is his lone Oscar nomination as an actor. It's so much of this movie's legacy. And I think he's phenomenal in this. But it's also like not his best performance. And you, in my opinion, might be,

[David Sims]

I just, it might be his best performance.

[Griffin Newman]

You, you step back and you're like, that nomination more than anything was Hollywood going like, like, okay, we admit, you know what you're doing.

[David Sims]

It's definitely Hollywood doing that. But I, I think it's, it's arguably his best performance.

[Griffin Newman]

It remains rude that this is his only nomination. And I was also just going through the math of like, he has been in eight best picture nominees, I think.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. He also, you know, the Oscars and Hollywood in general don't tend to valorize the kind of movie star acting that he's not a Transformer in Indiana Jones and in Star in Star wars and even in the Fugitive.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Where though they, they gave Tommy Lee an Oscar for that and they wouldn't even. And he was not even nominated.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a little bizarre where you're like, oh, they're like four, three acting nominations for Working Girl and he gets snubbed.

[David Sims]

Like things like that Fugitive snub is tough.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They just, they're, they're snotty about.

[David Sims]

Really crazy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Still are snotty about, you know, the Oscars in particular. So I think this is his like quote unquote best Capital A acting performance. And I, you know, I guess he does like jump over stuff, but it like, you know, like a couple times or like, or you know, like dives into some corn or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

The way he always self deprecatingly. Refers to it is I'm good at falling down.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. But it's like. It's not the full Harrison Vortix.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, it's not. It's a very important bridge film in that sense. But that's what he was looking for, you know, I mean.

[David Sims]

Yes. To Carry On Y. You're right. He's looking for that. He apparently does not want to work for Universal. They had replaced him with Mel Gibson on a project that JJ Guesses was maybe the film the Ripper. So he's pissed off at Universal, but Paramount is interested.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

The only one guys left.

[Griffin Newman]

And also was in the middle of making a ton of money off Indiana Jones for him. This is. He's basically signing on to this movie as Temple of Doom is filming, I believe.

[David Sims]

Sure. Yes, exactly. Year of Living Dangerously is just coming out and Feldman, the producer goes to see that and is like, I want that guy Peter Weir. But Peter Weir is prepping the Mosquito coast, which is at Warner Brothers and of course will come out after Witness. Eventually. Jack Nicholson is attached to that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And so while they are, you know, like, they're like, okay, they cycle through some other directors, Peter Yates, but it doesn't happen. Arthur Penn. Paramount's not interested. John Badham says, no. These are all guys at the time.

[Griffin Newman]

The woman who directed Testament.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know that movie which I've never seen, which is a post apocalyptic movie with Lynn. Lynn Littman, the Jane Alexander film.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I know she was attached at one point because that movie is Lucas Haas's debut and she's the one who recommended Lucas. Yeah. That a lot of people from Testament end up working on this film because she had brought them on.

[David Sims]

Interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

But yes, they're cycling through many, many directors.

[David Sims]

But then what happens? Mosquito coast falls apart.

[Griffin Newman]

He's overseas scouting, and he said it was the first time that it happened where it was like he thought he was going to be filming in two months. And the movie completely falls apart.

[David Sims]

And Weir is no interest in this movie in particular, but is like, I think I just need a job. And I think maybe I need to do something I'm not obsessed with. Because he was kind of obsessed with mosquito cops.

[Griffin Newman]

It goes back to the Hollywood thing. Right. That he was a guy who was attracted to the idea of a Hollywood career, not in terms of just like, can I buy a beach house? But that he goes to his rep and says, like, I think I want to be an assignment filmmaker. I want to try the old Hollywood thing. Find me a picture that is greenlit Right.

[David Sims]

Exactly. What's basically a go picture with a script that seems solid.

[Griffin Newman]

And it wasn't just that he wanted to be filming something. It was also that he was like, I kind of like the challenge of seeing what's the thing with all the pieces put together and what can I bring to it? And he brings them three scripts and Witnesses, the one he likes.

[David Sims]

The last twist is that Redford suddenly is like, I want to do witness. This looks good.

[Griffin Newman]

Makes sense.

[David Sims]

It does make sense. And he'd probably be good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Does he? He wants to star.

[David Sims]

Star.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[David Sims]

He doesn't want to direct, but because Weir has come aboard. Partly, I think. I think there's just heat around Weir, too. You know, living dangerously is this thing. And he kind of tries to muscle in. And Feldman is like, no, we're committed to Ford. We are ready to go. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, I'm not fucking with this again. It's tempting, like, but it could be a disaster. The thing with Redford also is he's a big control freak. He's gonna, you know, take over in ways that maybe you don't anticipate. So, like, you're saying we're. Weir kind of likes. It's like, this is studio filmmaking. Yes. This has some cliches in it. Yes. I don't really know anything about Amish country, but, like, I'm just gonna do my best job.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's also him kind of coveting that era of filmmaking, you know, and what good came out of it of just being like, if I really have my bones as a director, couldn't I be someone who can slot into something like this and find a way to make it personal? And basically his process at that point is just, like, cut 60 pages out of the script.

[David Sims]

Well, it's more. It's the. And it's the same thing. We talk about this on the Dead Poet Society episode. I think it comes up over and over again. He's like. Like, let's pull out some of the violence. It's too much. Let's make the love story less overt rather than, like, a full romance.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Suggested rather than shown.

[David Sims]

He has the guts to not lean too hard on these, like, very dramatic elements to be like, no, we don't need it. We don't need it. And apparently the producers are freaking out because they're like, that's the, like, juicy

[Griffin Newman]

stuff, but it's a big, like, don't use music unless you need to. If you can convey it in a look, take all the dialogue out guy

[David Sims]

cause dead poet society to spoil. Originally ended with Robin Williams dying of cancer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He was keeping that a secret.

[David Sims]

Right? Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

This doesn't need a different morbid twist.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right, right, right. This doesn't actually have to be a soap opera.

[Griffin Newman]

But you read that this original script had them having a full sex scene that plays out on camera. That the line that I butchered in the opening was like a multi page conversation. And there was similarly a multi page monologue at the end of the film saying goodbye.

[David Sims]

Why?

[Griffin Newman]

You know, and he's just like, none of that is necessary. He also directly invoked in some of the interviews I was finding that like he was obsessed with the Haze Code era that you have early Hollywood that's super horny. Then the Haze Code comes in and all these movies are restricted, but they're overflowing with sexual tension.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And he was like, I found those films more sexually charged when there was a thing that couldn't be said. And the movie's boxed in. Has to find another way to express it. And when you're dealing with a culture that is like repressed and plain, it's a very good match. And he was just like, I think the most erotic version of this movie, if the motor at the center is their tension, is the one in which they're not saying the thing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I mean it's like it's showing not telling. It's restraint as, you know, additive. It's like it is not an instinct that we have really in any type of culture right now, but certainly not in filmmaking. You know, I mean, people lost their minds when they didn't kiss at the end of Twisters.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, I didn't think.

[David Sims]

Well, I mean, I'm very on the record for what should have happened in Twisters.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Tell us.

[David Sims]

You should have fucked more attorney.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I mean all same. I like cheered when she showed up.

[Ben Hosley]

That's the mom.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah. Don't haven't.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't we kind of believe that maybe he did? Yeah.

[David Sims]

Well, the order on the film is slightly more textual because why was he

[Griffin Newman]

already at the ball?

[David Sims]

Exactly. Where she's like, I kind of have a crush on this guy. More true. And he's like, you should. And I, I would know.

[Griffin Newman]

Comes in with a towel around his.

[David Sims]

Right, exactly. But like Twisters, a film I have poof, forgotten.

[Griffin Newman]

I say pleasant time.

[David Sims]

Yeah, sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But everything has to be spoon fed to people now.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, like it's and, and audiences are angry if it's not explicitly spoon fed. To them, if. If the film's thesis is not, like, said aloud, I will also say, I

[Griffin Newman]

guess, yes, a big bugbear of mine. I'll also say my problem with Twisters is that I'm like, them not kissing at the end feels like a reference to movies not doing that rather than a thing the movie itself has earned. It feels like someone's like, you know what? Be cool is if they didn't kiss. Because remember. And then cited six movies where that happened. Rather than the movie being constructed around in a way that witnesses. Where you're just like, there's an hour and a half before Kelly McGillison Harrison Ford kiss where you are exploding. Where you're so aware of the fact that the movie is consciously avoiding that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I mean, I don't mean to imply that whatever's going on in Twisters is any way on the level of what's going on between Harrison Ford and. Yeah. Like Kelly Reilly. Like, it's not. I just. That was a recent example of people being mad on that.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally. Totally. But that's. If you want to get away with doing this kind of thing, you have to do it intentionally.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's like Peter Weir isn't just doing like, I don't care. Get it out of here. Like, he's very deliberate in what he's pulling and what he's replacing it with. Right. It's show, don't tell. You have to be smart about the show.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. You have to land the show. Right. But I think this does to this point.

[David Sims]

Harrison Ford says what he liked about the script is it was more or less a literate script for adults. I saw a movie in it. It felt like a movie. It had something to say. It has a moral point of view. Like, he's smart. I mean, Harrison Ford is smart. I'm sure he felt the exact same way about Random Heart. It's just funny the kind like he. He makes witnessy movies over and over again. And sometimes it works.

[Griffin Newman]

And sometimes this successfully creates another silo of his movie star Persona, which is you can have a Harrison Ford movie that is me in a pretty nice suit being a grown up.

[David Sims]

That's going to be an adult movie. Not usually too over the top. Mostly Presumed Innocent and Frantic. Have a little more of the lurid quality.

[Griffin Newman]

But he did successfully make this kind of like. Like its own franchise of like, you could tell when a Harrison Ford movie was being sold as this one's a little more for grownups and it would still work.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. And I'm going to Be a little bit of a rascal, but, you know, but, like, my moral compass will ultimately be where it needs to be. Even. Even in Presumed Innocent, though, like, that gets pretty wonky. But, like. Yeah, but it's not him at the Condom Thief.

[David Sims]

Well, that movie's awesome.

[Amanda Dobbins]

See, Mandeeman, that movie's so good.

[David Sims]

So he, you know. And he what? He hung out with some Philly Hob homicide cops. He did his work. Now, to cast Rachel Lapp.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I just jump in here with one thing? What? Don't say it with that level of disdain. I like talking about the making of the movie Witness. Peter Weir was like, I love this script. I. This is a list movie star. Is this guy going to be a diva? Is he going to swing around too much weight? Like, I need to meet with him and see if there's, like, an unspoken connection or not, because otherwise I don't know what I'm getting in to. I've never worked with someone at this level before. And he goes to where Harrison Ford lives at the time at some ranch, and Harrison Ford picks him up himself at the local airport. And he's like, good sign of character, you know, didn't send a chauffeur.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then they, like, sit down at Harrison Ford's kitchen and they go over the script and he was like, all he wanted to talk about was what could make the story better. There was no, like, I want my character to have a moment like this.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

What's the motivation here? It was sort of unspoken. We both think this character's rock solid. It. What I'm concerned with is the big picture. And he was just like, yeah, thank you so much. He said, I'm dob mob for life. Yeah, but that.

[David Sims]

He was like, but David did crush that draft and good job by him.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Six months ago.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

What do some people think?

[Griffin Newman]

Just maybe if the vote had gone on a little longer, the Muppet heads would have risen up, come to their senses.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But no, but he, like, it's the thing you always hear about Harrison Ford, that he, like, approaches everything like a craftsman. And I think his ultimate value as a movie, movie star is like, few people have ever been better at carrying an audience through a movie. And it's not just that he has the innate, like, appeal.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's that he really thinks about that stuff. And he was like, there was no ego driven conversation. It was all just like, what does this movie need to work? You know, like, his most kind of movie star note was originally, I think the Final battle with the bad guys. Sure was a shootout. And he was like, this sucks. We need to have a more exciting way for one of these guys to die.

[David Sims]

Yeah. We can't just be like, bang, bang.

[Griffin Newman]

It doesn't have to be silly, but, like, people have shown up. Something needs to happen. That feels like ingrained and it runs right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's so good. Was he. Was John Book originally a carpenter in the script or does that feel like a heresy?

[David Sims]

I mean, the man can work wood. I don't know, but that feels like something.

[Griffin Newman]

No, he was not in the script. And Weir was like, I think you need to. To see what they do so it doesn't all just become like the comedy of, like, how weird it is they eat breakfast at this time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right, right, right. But like. But Harrison Ford is absolutely. Yeah. Was a carpenter. Yeah. Like, he built Joan Didion's like, deck in Malibu or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a very smart show. Don't tell. Looking at the elements of what he had. It was not in the script. And he was just like, I think we should do this. They allot an entire day for it. And the movie uses like five continuous minutes of footage, which other people would be like, like, fucking hurry it up. We don't need to see the whole barn.

[David Sims]

Rachel Lapp.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

First they want Glenn Close. Makes sense. She's on.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

At the time. She's on the real thing on Broadway, which was this gigantic, you know, Tom Stopper to Stopper. Mike Nichols directed and Jeremy Irons is her co star. And her agent is like, look, I'll get her out of the show. And they're like, no, you won't. Like, Mike Nichols would fucking nuke you. So that doesn't happen. Peter Weir pivots to Isabella Rossellini. She's kind of wishy washy about it. Maybe, maybe not. She goes over to the Baryshnikov movie White Nights instead. Peter Weird does eventually work with her in Fear.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, Witness is way better than White Nights, but like, White Nights is pretty good movies. Yeah. Yeah. That's some dance trash movie for you right there.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right. Garbage dance movie. Then Peter Weir's like, what if we got like a German actress? Right, right. Like we're casting a Pennsylvania Dutch woman.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So sure.

[David Sims]

And like, they think about that, but they can't find anyone. There's just one lady apparently he likes of the unnamed who like, called on the phone and was like, hello, Mr. Vere? And they were like, this is not going to work. Like, no Kelly McGillis yeah. High school dropout. Had studied at the Pacific Conservatory of Performing Arts.

[Griffin Newman]

But then where'd she go after that?

[David Sims]

David Juilliard. And then she was in Reuben Rubin.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is the Tom Conti movie.

[David Sims]

Yeah, the Conti movie. I've never seen it. What a title, though. It's about a guy eating two sandwiches, I assume.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, exactly. One on each hand.

[David Sims]

But wait, why is it called Reuben Ruben? He's not playing a character called Ruben.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[David Sims]

Apparently there's a dog called Ruben.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

But Tom Conti got an Oscar nomination for that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

That is her only previous film credit. This is her second film because that's 83, right? Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I guess he correctly is like, I want someone on the more sort of, like, new side, because this is a fairly kind of innocent character. Yes, I guess. Right. And, I mean, I think he's very smart.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, you were saying that Ford spent a lot of time following Philly Police. Right. And then was like, I don't want to do any Amish research because my character shouldn't know anything.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, exact.

[David Sims]

Some sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. The Amish people were, like, fully immersed in doing a ton of research and living in Amish country because they had to know it. But I also think very smartly, they kept being like, who's the big name? Who'd be good for this role? And then settling on a recent Juilliard grad, an opera singer, a ballet dancer.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Mortensen. Like, it helps that when he goes to this place. Obviously, you watch it now and, like, two of the four are super recognizable. Sure. In retrospect, but it must have helped that you're like, he enters.

[David Sims]

Who are these people?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. Like, I buy them, and. And they're also introducing me into this world that I do not know about either.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's casting vibes and looks in a lot of ways.

[David Sims]

Apparently, Ford was not into the screen test and was like, eh. And Peter said, quote, harrison, if you're going to work with me, you've got to trust me. And if you don't trust me, you shouldn't make the movie. And everyone goes quiet. And Harrison's like, okay, well, I guess she's in the picture. You know, like, so.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Respect.

[David Sims]

Exactly. And so they. You know, they send her off to Lancaster country, and she hangs out with some. Some Amish people. Like, they give her. They give her. They give her a, you know, a little education.

[Griffin Newman]

We has her work with an accent coach. And he said, I. His greatest worry is that sometimes if people work on the accent too hard, the Accent becomes the entire performance you

[David Sims]

don't want him to write over.

[Griffin Newman]

And he kept doing like check ins with her every couple days. And then one time she calls and does the accent for him and he's like, that was your last class. Roll it back to three days ago.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, got it.

[Griffin Newman]

One step too far. There are a lot of weird stories like that where it's like, add, add, add, add. And then he's like actually subtract Coco Chanel. He lets it build. Yeah, exactly.

[David Sims]

She. One of the most interesting things she, she learns when she's hanging out with the Amish family, which I really like, is that they don't say please and thank you. And she's like. That really opened up vast numbers of doors for me. They're not concerned about pleasantries, just necessities of life. They're very real. They're down to earth. They're there to work. Life is work. Right? You know, like, that's the rewarding thing for them. So that, that, I mean, she's so good in this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

She's fucking phenomenal in this movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's unbelievable.

[David Sims]

And like, she's such an, you know, she's a bit of a sad Hollywood story because, like, you know, she gets discarded by Hollywood. Like I feel like by the early 90s, essentially. Right. Like, she just has like a sort of 5ish.

[Griffin Newman]

I've never seen Catchaser, which is the Abel Farrar movie with her and Peter Weller. And I was. Sounds like normal to dig in harder on this.

[David Sims]

That was 90. I was 89. So she's obviously after this. She does Top gun.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

In 88, she does the Accused.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I mean, that's the, the run.

[David Sims]

That's her start.

[Griffin Newman]

Those three movies in three years are just humongous.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

She says the Catchaser basically made her want to walk away from Hollywood. I've not been able to find her, go in depth as to what happened, but you can make a lot of assumptions with two insane people she was working with. But then she like, scales way down.

[David Sims]

The only big movie after that is. Is the Babe where she plays Mrs. Ruth in the Babe Ruth movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like a lot of TV movies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What, what does, what is Mrs. Ruth up to?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, she's. She's writing a check that will be on cash and one day will be sold as part of the Bambino.

[David Sims]

Right. That is too complicated to explain.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

All right. I mean, I assume Babe Ruth's mom. Wife. I assume Babe Ruth's mom was like, jesus, look at this Giant child of mine.

[Griffin Newman]

Who.

[David Sims]

In stingers.

[Griffin Newman]

What a pun.

[David Sims]

No, I mean, famously, actually. Babe Ruth was like a. A child who, like, was just a street maniac like, that. They were like, we cannot. He had to be sent to, like, a home for boys.

[Griffin Newman]

And they were like, what if you had a baseball right here?

[David Sims]

But I think, like, Babe Ruth's life as an athlete, despite being married to a couple different women, was basically like, ladies. Every night on the road, you know, babe Ruth smoking 80 cigars, eating four porterhouse steaks. Like, that's. You always hear about Babe Ruth, but I. I think, you know, he was.

[Griffin Newman]

It definitely feels like the industry moved on from Kellen Gillis really quickly. It also feels like, you know, she had her sort of comeback about 10 years ago, where she was in a couple Ti west movies. She came out, oh, yeah, she's in the Innkeepers. She started doing, like, interviews and sort of talking more about, like, her art. And I feel like she does frame it as, like, to some degree. I was just like, I hate these people. I hate this industry.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't want to do it anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't want to do it anymore. You know, I'm sure they also were not offering her the project she was deserving of, but she also kind of frames it as, like, I really soured on it pretty quickly.

[David Sims]

I mean. Yeah, it's. It sucks. I mean, I don't know. She's. The whole thing with her in Top Gun is. It's like. It's not like she's bad in Top Gun, but she and Cruz don't have

[Griffin Newman]

a lot of performance.

[David Sims]

And it just.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, it's funny, when you were talking about.

[David Sims]

It's the element of the movie, you

[Amanda Dobbins]

don't really care about Peter Weir meeting in the prep, and he's sitting down, and he's like, okay, so, like, what can I do to make this movie better? Which is in many ways, like, the complete opposite of the Tom Cruise experience, which is, like, what can I. I am singularly focused on what can I do to make sure that I'm Ethan Hunt in every frame of this movie. And you guys understand, I saved movies. And all of a sudden, of all

[Griffin Newman]

of the world, it's the Harrison Ford Craftsman thing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, and. And, like, there's an interview on this beautiful Arrow set of him doing, like, some daytime talk show when this movie's about to come out with, like, a fluffy, like, you know, local daytime journalist.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's clearly not disrespectful to her, and she's not stupid. But immediately she's like, you know, you have a bit of a reputation for not liking doing this, that you seem uncomfortable when you're doing prep. Yes, but I've heard. And tell me if this is just a line that you actually said. I want to do as much press as I can for this movie because I care about it a lot. And he does his very flashy, unflashy Harrison Ford, like, well, I'm proud of the picture and how it turned out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And this is not the kind of

[Griffin Newman]

picture that sells itself. And you have to go do it, because otherwise, if. If you're making work but it's not communicating with people, then what's the point? These, like, his notorious reputation for sure, being a bit of a Stonewall. And then you watch it and you're like, he's just not doing soft shoe to sell his movies.

[David Sims]

Which she doesn't really do.

[Griffin Newman]

He's speaking very intelligently and reserved.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's like Leo on New Heights.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Which is like, guys, remember that six to eight months ago, Leonardo DiCaprio went on the New Heights podcast with Benicio del Toro?

[David Sims]

It's just so funny that they always had him with Benicio, except when he was on Big Picture, he was with pta. But largely, it was like, him and Benicio.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

And it kind of felt like Benicio was his, like, little sort of helper, like in kindergarten.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you remember they did that with him and Pitt on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, that they went on WTF together.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That was great. And there was, like five minutes when they were talk. They actually let their guards down, and they were talking about all the different ways that they get away from the paparazzi.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And that was awesome.

[David Sims]

But largely, they're more.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, well, they're professionals. You know, they, like. They. They've done this, and they know what they want to say and what they don't.

[David Sims]

New Heights, which is not a podcast I listen to, no offense to it. Like, I only see little clips sometimes. But that one, the clips where it's just like Jason Kelsey going, just to start off, and you're just like, I don't think this is his energy.

[Griffin Newman]

And Leo's like, hello. Thank you for having me.

[David Sims]

I love cinema. Yes, thank you, Leo. We're glad you love cinema. I mean, God bless him. He's. He's out there.

[Griffin Newman]

He's doing.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he wants to sell the movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Exactly. Just like Harrison.

[David Sims]

And you can't go on Fallon anymore. I mean, you can, but like, nobody cares. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

This woman in the interview is doing the fucking 1985 version of our current media landscape, Hal, where she just keeps pushing. Like, one could guess that perhaps this movie is you trying to, like, put Indiana Jones and Han Solo in the back seat. And he's like, no, I'm proud of those movies. I'm proud of those performances. I will make a third Indiana Jones picture. And she's like, but do you hate the golden handcuffs of being known for these two big franchises? And he's like, I'm not going to be an asshole. I'm not going to complain about it. I'm proud of the films. I like the people I work with.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You know that she is sensing that he sees this as a pivot point and thus he might be trying to.

[David Sims]

To.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Throw the old stuff in the garbage. I don't want to be seen that way anymore. And he's so even handed about it. But he also kind of keeps saying. I've heard him say this in other places. Like, he was like 36 or 37 when Star wars happened.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

He had gone through his whole arc of, like, leaving a studio contract, becoming a carpenter, building back up the small parts with American Graffiti, and was just like, I'm here to do work work. Like, I have no discomfort with this. I had walked away from it once before. I'm not going to complain about being too successful.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And being pigeonholed into being an A lister. But I want to use my power for good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There's a. A Men's Health cover. I'm featuring Kyle Chandler, I think, from like 10, 15 years ago. And the COVID line is like a good hang with the last real American dude.

[David Sims]

I can tell you exactly what it says. It says a serious hang.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. The last solid dude. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Ye.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And he's looking good, you know, And I. It's the best cover line writing that. Because I think about it, anytime I'm confronted with like, the last solid dude, you know, but like, Harrison Ford was getting last solid Dude.

[David Sims]

But they also had, I will say, a guide to the best summer gear. Best new tennis rackets, weekend bags, sunglasses for every sport. And of course, cruising motorcycles.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Now I need two to three cruising motorcycles every summer.

[Griffin Newman]

Serious ride motorcycles.

[David Sims]

He probably does.

[Amanda Dobbins]

In addition to the planes.

[David Sims]

He never.

[Griffin Newman]

Jones does.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure. That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

I imagine he's done it in his off time as well.

[David Sims]

But it feels like a vehicle guy, right? Like, he likes vehicles.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[David Sims]

He enjoys cycling in tennis.

[Griffin Newman]

I like my little red wagon cycling.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I remember when he was a big bike guy. Yeah. When he was in the UK filming the new Indiana Jones, which we don't have to talk about. He was like, you know, in his spandex, like, cycling around on the weekends a lot, just showing up at pubs.

[Griffin Newman]

I know he's done 15 television series in that same amount of time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But it was a little alarming to look at his IMDb last night and go like, oh, post pandemic. He has only made two films, which are Indiana Jones and the Doll of Destiny and Captain America. Brave New World.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Red Horn.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I totally forgot about that. I'm like five years right there in the office, so.

[David Sims]

We love you often. We like our presence.

[Griffin Newman]

Nothing but respect.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, right. Of course.

[Ben Hosley]

We also have another one over here.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a popcorn bus.

[David Sims]

We just think it's pretty funny that Harrison Ford played Thaddus Ross, like eight films into that role and turned into Red Hulk.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And I guess now Marvel will just kind of be like, just forget it. Just forget that ever happened.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. It just feels like a shame.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's a shame. I mean, he does shrinking, right?

[Griffin Newman]

And everyone loves shrinking and he likes.

[David Sims]

Do they? Nobody loves shrinking.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Never seen it.

[Griffin Newman]

My mom loves shrinking.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's good.

[Griffin Newman]

But also talks about it as if it's final season Game of Thrones where she's like, you and your friends aren't watching shrinking. Shrinking. Everyone I talked to is watching shrinking.

[David Sims]

I can't say I've shrunk of late.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then he did, right, 1923.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

With Helen Mirren.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. But that was like a one season thing, right?

[David Sims]

It was 2.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is. Is his character still alive? Which Dutton is he?

[David Sims]

He is Jacob Dutton, of course. And he is. I mean, he's alive in 1923.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey.

[David Sims]

Oh, and maybe he's on ice and in Yellowstone, they'll like, find him in like an ice chest.

[Griffin Newman]

I hope so.

[David Sims]

I'm out.

[Griffin Newman]

He rols out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yellowstone is. Is current day.

[David Sims]

Yellowstone is present day.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, okay.

[David Sims]

That's right. And so we had to.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So they've done like 18 something and they've done 1923. Have they done anything like 5060s?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think they should do, like, yet.

[David Sims]

3000 BC. And that's just like grass.

[Griffin Newman]

I would say future.

[David Sims]

Oh, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Yellowstone, 2099.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Oh, where they're getting, like, cyber oil for cyber cattle.

[Griffin Newman]

The cyber Duttons. Everything should just be cyber. I mean, this is a thing. I feel like Chris Ryan is. Is constantly sort of litigating, but, like, I am Sometimes confused as to which Sheridan verse shows are Yellowstone Universe and which ones aren't. Like lawman Bass Reeves is not connected to Yellowstone.

[David Sims]

No, that's because that's about a real person.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And I think Tulsa King is also. And everything is just set in our disgusting woke world, which Sylvester Stallone must dismantle brick by brick.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But they have done, of course, 1883 and 1923. And then they have upcoming the Madison.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

With Michelle Pfeiffer and Patrick J. Adams and Matthew Fox. We needed to thaw him out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, wow.

[David Sims]

And then something called why Marshalls. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know what Y is, if I'm not mistaken?

[David Sims]

Well, I'm guessing that Y refers to Yellowstone, but go ahead.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that. I mean, I assume the greatest boondoggle of the modern streaming era is that Paramount sells the Yellowstone rights.

[David Sims]

They have the rights to all but

[Griffin Newman]

Yellowstone because they're like, well, we're never going to start a streaming service. And then CBS and Paramount re merge, and now Paramount inherits CBS All Access, rebrands as Paramount plus and is like, you're telling me they have Yellowstone forever ever. So when the whole Sheridan Costner bruja blows over, they're rubbing their hands together and they're like, well, if the show ends, we stop having to give Peacock anything. So they're making a new show. That's most of the supporting cast.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's got present day Yellowstone.

[David Sims]

You're Luke Grimes, you're Gil Birmingham.

[Griffin Newman]

Continuing the same plot lines, but they're like, it's a new show.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, great.

[Griffin Newman]

And we own this now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Got it. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And I guess they're calling it why instead of Yellowstone to even more dismiss itself.

[David Sims]

Working on 1944 and then something called 6666. A shudder to think what that is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yellowstone in hell, probably.

[David Sims]

Look, Witness, let's talk about Witness. I just want to tell you, of course that they filmed in Lancaster county, but of course they did not film the Amish who refused to be filmed.

[Griffin Newman]

And we're like, you can take anything you want. You can use our homes. Do not capture our souls.

[David Sims]

I mean, a little bit. I want Amish. Were very unhappy with this. Have you.

[Ben Hosley]

Have either of you been to Amish country?

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, did you like, take a bus? Were you the tourists?

[David Sims]

Like, no, no, it's just a nice place to go on vacation. Like, it's. It's sort of like going to upstate New York, but going this way. And it's a slightly different vibe.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say for me it was like 8th grade overnight trip to Philly.

[David Sims]

It is a classic school. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And we went to Amish country. And the thing I remember I maybe have invoked in previous episodes.

[David Sims]

Dinner.

[Griffin Newman]

We go to Amish country and you see that you get the tour and then they show you the butter and whatever the Right. But then they were like, and then we're gonna show you a 4D Mo Amish life. And we went into a custom built theater to watch this 40 minute original film about a kid going on Rum Spring and thinking of leaving the Amish community and coming back. But it was built in this environmental theater where there were like effects and like doors shuttering and like wind and stuff. And I was like, this is the most anti Amish thing.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You're trying to sell me on the beauty of the simple life. And you're like putting like William Castler Tinglers under. Under the seat and having like. It was like a theater built as if it was like a barn and would go off around.

[David Sims]

Ben's shaking his head.

[Ben Hosley]

I was just always kind of jealous by the tradition of Run Springer. Like I wasn't restricted really as a. As a teen.

[David Sims]

Right. At all.

[Ben Hosley]

I kind of got away with a lot of troublemaking and shenanigans.

[Griffin Newman]

But it was the idea of having the purge.

[Ben Hosley]

But yes, there's something of like just go so off. I love that idea.

[Griffin Newman]

We actually want you to up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right, right.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is. I will say I think Rum Spring is a somewhat. Our view of it is not like entirely accurate.

[Ben Hosley]

I think it's not just like taking ecstasy constantly and going to clubs.

[David Sims]

It's a Pennsylvania Dutch word for running around and. But I don't think like that the actual vibe of it by and large is like, yeah, murder is legal. Right. You should like go to Vegas.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not like the purge.

[David Sims]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's a little bit more seen. I think within most communities. It's like a time to engage in courtship and like, you know, shoplift. So just be a little looser with like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[David Sims]

You know, it's like, it's.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So when you say engage in courtship though, you do. I mean like around.

[David Sims]

Yeah. No, but I don't find out. I don't think it's like, Right. Why don't you just like hit the clubs and just like run through ladies?

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, part of it I'm sure is that it was mainly meant to be shown to school groups like the one I was in. But this 4D movie, its depiction of Rum Spring up was a An Amish kid driving a car and eating a slice of pizza.

[David Sims]

And they were like, he's going crazy. Right. I think there's a little bit of, like, okay, like, things can be a little less strict while you're in this kind of like, unsettled 16, 17, 18 year old time of your life where you maybe want to explore floor.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[David Sims]

You know, just being English.

[Griffin Newman]

One hand on the wheel, one hand on the slice.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

There was a line I remember where he literally was like, look, I love my grandfather, but pizza's gonna be pretty hard to give up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Now, look, I mean, it's so true. Maybe they can make pizza. It's just not plain. The whole thing with the Amish is

[Griffin Newman]

like, it'd be the plainest pizza you've ever had.

[David Sims]

I can feel myself being disrespectful to a community I don't understand the second I start talking about. All I have are stereotypes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So an amaz thing about this movie is that I like, I know the Amish themselves hated it. And so it was the Mennonites who were like, filmed as extras. Right. But I think it is very respectful of.

[David Sims]

That's why this movie is so beautiful.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And it's like. And it is. It sells what is, like, lovely about this community.

[Griffin Newman]

And you watch it thinking through magic

[David Sims]

or at least just that, like, with the whole thing. That's interesting to me, me about Witness, which we should talk about, which is a film about John Book.

[Griffin Newman]

John Book. Harrison Ford is John Book.

[David Sims]

But of course, initially it is about Rachel Lapp, a woman in an Amish community whose husband has died, played by Kelly McGillis, who, with her son Samuel, played by Lucas Haas. And his big moon eyes, just the biggest eyes in the world. Also his jug ears and cute ears. But I just feel like the eyes are so vital because you're like, he witnessed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, yes, yes.

[David Sims]

Like, and anytime you see those eyes of his, you're just like, still in

[Amanda Dobbins]

his eyes, you know, when he sees Danny Glover in the, like, press clipping in the box, they have that shot that is like, like of his eyes. Like the get out, get out eyes shot, you know, and he's like, oh, it's that one.

[David Sims]

So Harrison Ford, like, calmly putting his finger down is like a shot.

[Griffin Newman]

I never forget even the inciting incident of this movie. Just being seeing his eyes through the crack of the stall door. You need those eyes to punch through the crack.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but his, his, you know, they're. They're going to Baltimore to spend time with her sister. Is her sister Also Amish assumes. Or has she maybe left the community in some way, presumably herself? It's not really.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not made clear. What's going on in Baltimore is not

[David Sims]

totally clear, but I guess the vibe is kind of like you need to mourn, you need a little bit of time to get support. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very clear. It's gonna be his first time leaving.

[David Sims]

It's his first time on a train. It's his. I mean, all that stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

First time visiting the city.

[David Sims]

I mean, it's the exact. Again, not to dwell on Dead Poets, but we did that recently opening of Dead Poets where it's like everyone filing into the school and you're just. It's just quiet. Like the way this movie just starts with the funeral where it's just like, just I'm bringing the heat up slowly. Like, just get to know this, like, landscape, these people. Like, it doesn't need to be lurid. It doesn't need to be weird or goofy. It's just kind of lovely. Him getting on the train is so lovely and like looking out the window and being so excited.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, fully 15 minutes before Harrison shows up.

[David Sims]

And then of course, he witnesses a throat slap. Fashion. Yeah, he's pretty creative in the little stalls. Just a stall action.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Good stalls.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Indiana Jones.

[David Sims]

Yeah, exactly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

In the hat at the last moment.

[Griffin Newman]

He's really smart.

[David Sims]

Danny Glover, a very new to film. Danny Glover, of course, doesn't.

[Griffin Newman]

He had only done Places in the

[David Sims]

Heart, it sounds like. I know that, like, because the whole thing with him too is he starts a little late. Like Dan Glover. Do you find he's almost immediately too old for this?

[Griffin Newman]

Right. The other thing is, I think because Danny Glover, like, hits the ground running, it like arrives as like a fully formed adult. Adult movie star in a way.

[David Sims]

Because Color Purple is like, you know, same year as is in the fall or whatever, right?

[Griffin Newman]

And then Lethal Weapons the year after. Like, it's such a quick kind of ascension that something in my brain short circuits when I see him in a movie like this. And he's not hyper famous yet, right? Like, he shows up. There's just no era of like, watching other a list movie stars where you're like, oh, there are a couple, like, small parts they have where they're a little green before they figure out their stuff. Stuff and they figure out their look. And you're like, even in this, it doesn't unbalance the movie. But I'm just being like, right, Danny clever's only in like three scenes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. And you're. I mean, it's hard when you're going back in time and when you've. Because this is not the first time you have. You. Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Have seen Danny Glover. So even though.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's. He's new it in the movie to the scene. Not new to you.

[Griffin Newman]

That. That is. My point is that unlike other people, where you can go back and watch the earlier films and be like, oh, of course, this is in their career before they were a big star, Danny Glover just somehow always feels like he must have been above the title from the beginning.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Griffin?

[Griffin Newman]

David.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Did you know Fast Growing Trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, my sign. I did not know that. Johnny Carson.

[Ben Hosley]

They have all the plants your yard or home needs, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, and houseplants, all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy.

[David Sims]

Whoa.

[Griffin Newman]

Keanu Reeves.

[David Sims]

Glad they're arriving healthy.

[Ben Hosley]

It's like your local nursery, but anywhere you live with more plants than you'll find anywhere else. Well, well, well, whatever you're looking for, Fast Growing Trees helps you find options that actually work for your climate, space and lifestyle.

[David Sims]

Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to

[Griffin Newman]

get your dream yard.

[David Sims]

Just click, order, grow, and get healthy, thriving plants delivered to your door. Their Alive and thrive guarantee promises that your plants arrive happy and healthy. No green thumb required. Just quality plants you can count on. Plus, get ongoing support from trained planter experts who can help plan your landscape, choose the right plants, and learn how to care for them every step of the way. Now, Ben, I know you were talking about this because you did this.

[Ben Hosley]

I recently ordered.

[David Sims]

You got a tree. Trees. I know.

[Griffin Newman]

Groot. Groot.

[Ben Hosley]

What's that?

[Griffin Newman]

Just throwing in some quotes that feel relevant as reactions.

[Ben Hosley]

Got it. Now, initially, of course, I was going to let Griffin have his pick because it just ended up being that you had too many trees in your yard.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a problem. I mean, I. I'm all thumbs. Green thumbs. I got 10 green thumbs. It's hard for me to do any other task because I'm so busy planting trees and watching them grow so fast.

[Ben Hosley]

So gracious. Graciously, he allowed me to select some trees. And so I actually picked some stuff out for my dad.

[David Sims]

Oh, very nice.

[Ben Hosley]

So he got himself a couple of sky pencil holly trees.

[David Sims]

Oh, cool. I'm gonna look these up. Oh, very nice. Oh, yeah, the sort of like tall, thin boys. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Yep. And then he also got a Lilac shrub.

[Griffin Newman]

A lilac shrub in this economy?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Lilac is through the roof and I

[Ben Hosley]

love the smell of a lilac flower. So the whole process was so easy. The thing I really love as far as, like the features that are available on this site is you enter in your zip code and it gives you a growing zone so you're able to pick out the right kinds of plants that are going to thrive in your climate. He's planted this stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

It all came healthy like they said.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

And they look great.

[Griffin Newman]

And I bet it planted a big old smile on his face to watch these trees.

[Ben Hosley]

Absolutely. And now here's the best part. I went and I helped him out and I got to dig a hole.

[Griffin Newman]

That is the best part.

[Ben Hosley]

One, two, three.

[Griffin Newman]

Life's a whole. Dig it, Joe Dirt.

[David Sims]

Okay. Okay, guys.

[Ben Hosley]

Right now they have great deals on spring planting essentials. Up to half off on select plants. And listeners to our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the code check at checkout. That's an additional 20% off. Better plants and better growing. @fast growingtrees.com using the code check at checkout fastgrowingtrees.com code check. Now that's the perfect time to plan. Let's grow together. Use check to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply.

[Griffin Newman]

And I have one last thing to say.

[David Sims]

Please.

[Griffin Newman]

Life is like a box of chocolates for scum.

[David Sims]

Very good.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you,

[David Sims]

Guys. It's time to believe in the Hail Mary Project Hail Mary that is one one of the most beloved adventure stories by Andy Weir. Big book. It's now a major motion pictures. There's never been a better time to immerse yourself in the bestselling audiobook. Right. The movie's coming out. Listen to the book.

[Ben Hosley]

Yep.

[David Sims]

All right, so I'll tell you what it's about. There's the sole survivor of a desperate last chance mission in space. Ryland Grace is the character. He's got to save the earth from disaster in an incredible science based thriller. The fan favorite narrator Ray Porter brings every moment to life with humor, heart and pulse pounding tension. So let's get reading the book now. The blockbuster movies finally arrived in theaters. Never been a better time to start listening to the universally acclaimed audiobook. Part science mystery, part dazzling interstellar journey, Project Hail Mary is a tale of discovery, speculation and survival. Listen to the audiobook available on Audible. And the movie starring Ryan Gosling is in theaters now. That's project Hail Mary. Listen Watch. Save the world. Listen now at audible. Audible.com. hail Mary. Here comes. You know, he witnesses this crime. Here comes John Book trying to figure out what happened. And Patti LuPone is, you know, his trusty sister. Yeah. He's got the great. The great. I love him. What's his name? Brent Jennings from Moneyball. That's who I like. He's a guy who's in a billion.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Incredibly hard.

[David Sims]

But I can. I. He's washed just right.

[Griffin Newman]

A perfect.

[David Sims]

Tell him why. Incredibly hard.

[Griffin Newman]

Perfect line delivery.

[David Sims]

I think, like. And I'm saying, like, seriously, look at this guy's resume. Lovely career, unbelievable amount of movies. He's still with us. She's 74 years old, but one could

[Griffin Newman]

only hope to hit one line out of the park that hard.

[David Sims]

But he's great in this. He's the trusty, you know, partner of John.

[Griffin Newman]

And I also feel like. Is not a movie cop. He feels like a real cop.

[David Sims]

I mean, the sweet thing, right early on when he. The Samuel can't. Doesn't really have the words for saying that the person he saw was black.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So he was like you. But not. What's the word for run?

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, we don't need to do it.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, no, it's.

[David Sims]

And just that. That moment where John Book. Like, the hint of the Harrison smile. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's great.

[David Sims]

Just spreads across his face. Like, I like this kid. You know, it's just so good.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's also a thing. We talk so much about how being good with kids is a thing that tends to, like, elevate a movie star to, like, legend status because he kind of can't fake it.

[David Sims]

Stumpig.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Stumpig.

[Griffin Newman]

And then you think, like, oh, he hasn't really interacted with children on screen up until this point. Yeah, I guess so as much as he has been a movie star beloved by little boy boys.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And Peter Weir of it talks about when he.

[David Sims]

We did just have short round.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, you're right.

[David Sims]

I'm sorry. We gotta.

[Griffin Newman]

We gotta keep our heads right before this. Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. You're right. But that his introduction is. This kid is sitting here and Harrison Ford lowers himself into the frame. Yeah, right. That he gets down to the kid's eye level.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's. It's some Princess Diana. You know, he does immediately like, he

[Griffin Newman]

is the prince of my mind to his performance.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's just also like. Like, it's a very primal, heteronormative theme about. I'm about to say. But it makes him so hot. You know, it's just like this single. Like this single hot guy who's just like, oh. And now I know instinctively how to, like, bond with this kid. I'm just like, hello.

[David Sims]

Here's the take, right. That I. I forgot. This is what I was going to say. The whole thing. That's. The quiet thing in this movie, is that he's a really angry guy. And you see these moments, obviously, the biggest being late in the movie when he punches the mean tourist guy, who, by the way, fuck that guy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Fuck that guy.

[David Sims]

Ice cream and being mean. And then they're like, whoa, this is bad for the industry. If Amish are fighting back.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Although there's probably someone on TikTok, like, espousing the values of the ice cream facial and doing this to themselves on purpose.

[David Sims]

But there are these little moments where you're like, right. This guy's. One thing is that, like. And that's. This is why he's a cop. He's got this kind of, like, weird righteous streak, but there's, like, a rage to him.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And that's why it's so good for him to be on the farm. And you can feel him kind of finding an equilibrium that he maybe doesn't have.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He doesn't exactly cover himself in the. With glory.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

In the first 15 minutes, the whole, like, let's stop by a local Philly bar and just, like, pull out some black guys that we know, you know, and try to arrest them. Not. Not good.

[Ben Hosley]

Not by the book.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

The guy's name is John Book, so that's really weird.

[Griffin Newman]

It's actually kind of ironic. Isn't there a line in the movie where they invoke that he's trying to be a better father to his sister's kids?

[David Sims]

Yes. They talk about all of this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

And that he's, like, a little afraid to have his own kids. Right. There's that whole scene. Gillis lays him out a little bit.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But, like, we see, you know, it's a very circumstantial moment, but just him showing up and immediately criticizing Leone.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

For doing it wrong.

[David Sims]

Right. Rocking a full mullet. What's going on?

[Griffin Newman]

It is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It is a full mullet. And what he's criticizing her for not doing it wrong is. Is having a overnight visitor.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

While her two children are in the home, which, you know, I think single moms should get to do whatever they want.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not saying she's doing it wrong. He's acting like she's doing it wrong.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Policing.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not Doing great in a way that's really judgy. There is a deleted scene that was part of the TV broadcasts. Sure. That is five minutes of Kelly McGillis and Patti LuPone. Sounds great. Where.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, bring that to Broadway right

[Griffin Newman]

now before Book comes and pulls them right where she comes downstairs. Kelly McGillis and Lucas Haas. She has three children, I think, or maybe it's only two. Lucas Haas is playing Donkey Kong with them, and they're like bowls of sugary cereal and, like, fucking radios blaring. And Kelly McGillis looks shocked. And then it cuts to Patti LuPone coming downstairs, and all three children are, like, scrubbing the kitchen. Kitchen, like the Cinderella mice.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And then Patti LuPone takes it as a judgment on her mothering, and they have this emotional connection. And it's, like, not a bad scene at all. But you can see why we're cut it because it's like saying the thing out loud over and over. It has Patti LuPone, like, breaking down in tears.

[David Sims]

And it's not as vital to the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And it's also like, a little more like, you know, culture worry.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

As opposed to the. I find the way the. The film judges John Book and, like, the modern values, you know, they. They fixate on the gun. And she's like, I don't want your gun in my house. This gun of the hand, you know, which is like, an incredible turn of phrase. And, like, that seems like a valid concern and less judgy than being like, well, let me. Let me think about how you're parenting and, like, what your sugar content is, you know?

[Griffin Newman]

The scene ends with, like, kellumygulis having to apologize.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's all, like, a little overstated.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Yeah.

[David Sims]

You need to get to Amish country. You do. And this movie does a pretty good job convincing you. It's more than a pretty good. It's a great screenplay.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, giving you the chain of events that are like, you know what? He simply must hide out in Amish country with these people.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Because it's.

[David Sims]

Because it's a little.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Because they're bad cops.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes, because it's bad cops. Because he's himself, you know, Gets shot, like, all this stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Lucas Haas is able to ID Danny gloves lover. Ford goes to his chief.

[David Sims]

He goes to. Yeah, yeah. His boss, whoever you know, who is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Drugs are missing. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He's put the piece together. The pieces together. He thinks he solved the whole case.

[David Sims]

Joseph Summer, who's basically, to me, just like German Ronnie Cox, you know what I mean? Especially in two minutes, being like, this is Ronnie Cox. No, it's not. But it could be.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And, like, that scene is so great because I'm immediately like, like, don't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Don't do it. As soon as he's like, let's just keep it. Who else knows about this? Let's keep it between the two of us. And, like, we've all been trained at this point. So then Danny Glover shows up in the.

[David Sims]

In the parking.

[Amanda Dobbins]

In the parking lot. There's a shootout, but the best part is the rich couple in the car.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The elevator.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The husband being like, you care? It's really funny.

[David Sims]

What would you do if your car was getting shot up at Danny Lover in an, you know, inadvertent situation? Would. Would you also. Would you just quietly, like, door close it? I don't know. I might have an initial, like, panic moment. I think you feel like it's real.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I. I mean, we've been taught in emergency situations to not get in the elevator. You know that, like, you don't want to be stuck in an elevator fire.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So. And then you're trapped.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So. And then also, you know, does that close door. Door close elevator button work is, you know, like, I. I've been told it's an urban letter. Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's a placebo.

[Griffin Newman]

Are the elevator doors bulletproof? I mean, there are many questions.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That is a great question that I wanted.

[David Sims]

But you're not gonna walk out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, you're not.

[David Sims]

You're not gonna be like, you know, what, big old parking garage?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No. But also, maybe there's a universe in which I simultaneously hold down the closed door button and the basement button. So I'm like, doors closed. Staying here in stasis if I feel like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But then you're worried about the. I think instinctively I would just run back in and, like, press every button that I could.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't think calling a timeout is

[David Sims]

going to work, like, okay, hold up.

[Ben Hosley]

Let me just back the car out.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me just get it out of here.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But, yes, he immediately puts together. I only told one guy. Clearly, he's in on. On it. My.

[David Sims]

Basically, no one I can trust.

[Griffin Newman]

I got to get these witnesses out of here.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

So his. Right. It is. What is smart in the construction of this movie is that he's not immediately saying, I got to go hide out in Amish country.

[David Sims]

No, that's the correct element, is that he's like, you guys stay here. I'm going to go. That little mailboxy thing. What is it? Bird house? What Is that thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's try to not hit that. And I definitely. But he's right. He's been shot. He's so caught up in his stoic thing that he's like, I gotta save them.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Goes. Drives them back.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Happily, the serious infection that he gets from the bullet that is still in his body does not take over until he has dropped them off.

[Griffin Newman]

Perfect.

[Amanda Dobbins]

In Amish country, you know, but it's like once he's setting out on his own, just in time to hit fever

[Griffin Newman]

takes hold the mailbox and nothing worse.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Is it? No. So it's a birdhouse. But like, why do they need a birdhouse?

[Griffin Newman]

For the birds, sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But like, I guess just for birds. So the are the birds don't have to be playing also the whole thing.

[David Sims]

That's a good point.

[Griffin Newman]

And inside that birdhouse, it is teched out flat screen TV.

[David Sims]

I understand that we probably have 0 to 1Amish listeners because the Amish probably aren't listening to too many podcasts, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Unless they're on Ramspringer.

[David Sims]

Yeah, you can listen to all the podcasts you wish,

[Griffin Newman]

Father. I went through 10 years of blank check in merely two weeks.

[David Sims]

But one stereotype I obviously have about the Amish is that they're wonderful woodworkers. And like, there's this place near my home in Brooklyn where if your chair breaks and you give it to this guy, he sends it off to the Amish for them to fix it. So I think that it's like, that's recreational, right? Like making a beautiful little birdhouse house. It's like, it. It's useful. It's a practical enough item to raise

[Griffin Newman]

a barn every week.

[David Sims]

But you need projects crafting this, I guess.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, are the birds doing work for you?

[David Sims]

Does it all have to be work?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, that's kind of what it seems like.

[Griffin Newman]

I like to imagine little Amish birds in there building their own little tiny bug house.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They have power. The bird. I am. I am anti bird laying plain eggs. I don't like birds.

[Griffin Newman]

I think birds are upsetting.

[David Sims]

I don't. I mean, I respect the bird, the majestic bird, he who flies like, I respect. I don't really want him in my house.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I want respect them, but safest because they are freaky and they're organized and they can rise up against like, I mean, Hitchcock. Hitchcock had it right.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, they're dinosaurs.

[David Sims]

That's not cool.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a little scary.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure, sir. And, and. And they're just. They're talking to each other. They have patterns, like, but they Keep to themselves.

[Griffin Newman]

Gossip.

[Ben Hosley]

They're doing their own thing and you just get to perceive them.

[Griffin Newman]

Just like parrots kind of walking around your grill. They make grass.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, like everyone who's birding and is like, I once saw this like rarest form of bird that like I've never heard. Like, what's that about? You know, like, where are all the other kinds?

[Griffin Newman]

I'll say this. I actually. I'm almost envious. I wish I could structure my entire life around birding. When I hear birders talk about like.

[David Sims]

Seems very relaxing.

[Griffin Newman]

I wake up at 3am I just stand in a field and I patiently wait to hear a call. I'm like, I'm. I wish that is all it took

[David Sims]

to make me feel I'm pretty far from being able to do something like that. Yeah. It's like, wow. I think I'd have to work on a lot of stuff to get to that.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey, wake up.

[David Sims]

Go outside. Not use phone. Yeah. Because burning to me. Right. It's like fishing. It's like one of those things where if, like, if you get into it, it's like you're going to be waking up when. When it dark.

[Griffin Newman]

But isn't this kind of the Amish appeal? Right. It's sort of the house.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, the birds.

[David Sims]

Are we back on the birds house is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I like how nature.

[David Sims]

Absolutely hung up. We are.

[Griffin Newman]

You're saying we should be.

[David Sims]

Would the Amish make a house?

[Griffin Newman]

We should not. But I know it feels like, correct me if I'm wrong here we're zooming out to a larger. Why do bird houses exist? Why no. The people are even making half measures.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would like to interrogate the internal logic plainness as it relates to bird houses. And also now we've gotten here. Rachel gives John Book a jacket and then she's like. That has like eyes and hooks and eyes. Then every single man is wearing a shirt with a button.

[David Sims]

It's interesting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, what's going. Just.

[David Sims]

But just one button.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, they're all buttons.

[Ben Hosley]

But I assumed it was the top layer. I assumed it was the jacket. The suit jacket.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But so why I. So the suit jackets can't have buttons, but the shirts can have buttons?

[David Sims]

I don't know. We're going to need listeners weigh in. Or maybe I rewatch.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Let me. Let me be super clear here. This is not an indictment of the Amish. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You're interrogating the movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm interrogating how the movie is communicating their beliefs to me and their way of life.

[Griffin Newman]

See, I Wonder, does his shirt have buttons?

[Amanda Dobbins]

It does.

[Griffin Newman]

I.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Because once I noticed this, they all. All. They have buttons. And what's the. The guy with the he. Man hair.

[Griffin Newman]

That's good enough, right?

[David Sims]

Alexander. Good enough.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Who's more than good enough in this movie? He's great.

[David Sims]

He's fantastic. I've after this, best known for Die Hard as the sort of Carl, Die Hard.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, shit.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He has buttons.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And he died quite young.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And then. And then they don't really talk about this, but, like, the use of color in the clothes seems, you know, But. But some people do get to have, like, a green shirt or.

[David Sims]

I think there's a spectrum.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, you know, and also you can use natural dyes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

True, true, true, true. But, like, natural tie dy. But it's supposed to be.

[Griffin Newman]

It's supposed to be plain tie dye shirt. Yeah. I mean, my question was, are they saying, like, you haven't earned buttons yet. You're back to, like, peak plainness. You got to work your way back up in the same way they're making him, like, prove himself in the community. Community. But. But they give him a button shirt from the beginning.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I. Yeah, they do.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. I have no answers here.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't know. I mean, I just questions that, you know, similar to the Hasidim, another, like, sort of group that gets a lot of blanket things, but there's, like, you know, varying sex with varying levels of sort of, you know, they cross over

[Ben Hosley]

in the train station.

[David Sims]

I know that that's kind of a nice moment.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Samuel is like.

[David Sims]

It's a good. Really, really interesting moment. It is. And I think it's. Yeah, it's well done because the guy doesn't look at him in a hostile way. And Sam is. I mean, Samuel isn't completely upset about it, but it is kind of a, like. Right. Same but different.

[Griffin Newman]

What is this?

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. And like. Yeah. I mean, there's so many things I could say about the Hasidim. Like, I'm so close to the Hasidim. Right. Because they're in my. Like, they live in neighborhoods so close to. And I'm seeing them all the time, and I have all these complicated feelings about them. And then you watch a movie about the Amish, and I. The Amish communities is like, their sexual abuse that. That.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[David Sims]

You know, have been. You can write, read about this. You know, that it's so hard to deal with in these, like, mega religious communities. But then you watch this movie and you're like, to be milking cows and working Wood. And, like, that's what I need.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, it's the burden thing. Like, would it be nice to be able to do this? I think also it's what this movie gets, really.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And why. I think one of the reasons they cut out that LuPone Donkey Kong scene is like, the humor is always that he's a little bit out of sorts, trying to coexist.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Shadow. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It's never sort of the joke of, like, what is this? You know, the joke's never at them.

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Which I think is big. And also, there's so many moments more

[David Sims]

usually on him, but in a very, very gentle way.

[Griffin Newman]

Even the moment of him coming out in the full outfit for the first time, I'm like, this is so perfectly judged, cuz. 2 degree first. Further, Harrison Ford looks silly in a way that makes the movie broad.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's not even about the outfit. It's about the way he's wearing it and how much he's playing, the discomfort of it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like everything is just perfectly judged in this weird way.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And. And also, then she laughs.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, so like. But. But she laughs in the.

[David Sims]

She titters.

[Griffin Newman]

She.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, she tempers it as well, which kind of like, signals to the audience. Okay, like this. Yeah. Like, this is a little funny, but we're not. Not doing, you know, Amish drag.

[Griffin Newman]

Broad first.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also.

[David Sims]

This is so trite because we live in a silly country that sucks in so many ways.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the first time hearing this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But you also are like, yeah, man. That's kind of what America is. Right. Some guys who are like, hey, we do a really specific thing. And there are countries were like, yeah, out of here. And they're like, we're gonna do it over here. And America's like, all right. Yeah, yeah, drive your buggy.

[Ben Hosley]

All right.

[David Sims]

You know, like. And you're like, it's beautiful. It's weird.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's like 200 years later. You're like, everything else has changed. And everyone's, like, mashed into the same pot. Where you're like, but we have different bars. And then you have these little sex of just like, we have refused to acknowledge. Right.

[David Sims]

And there's jerk. But I feel like if you're in Lancaster, Canada, there's a lot of people like, yeah, yeah, they're. That's what they're. They're over there doing their thing.

[Griffin Newman]

This is what I'm also saying, though, of. I think this movie makes the case where you're like, I could see him staying. There is just enough tension. It's obviously very tied.

[David Sims]

We know so little of his life, so you can kind of read that in.

[Griffin Newman]

But also, as you said, that his life doesn't seem to be going super well. And this guy's over cranked. And you're like, he does seem to be finding some kind of inner peace.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think that the. The movie just has. Has the tone and restraint so locked that you get to a point where you're like. You think to yourself while watching it in that scene or like, well, like, maybe he could stay. This is comfortable. Then two seconds later you're like, no, because obviously, like, he's not used to this lifestyle. You know, two weeks later, like, there's. There's like a lot of tensions and like, you think through it, but you like, you're carried away for a moment.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then you're like, no, we gotta re. Acknowledge the reality of this situation. Which. Which is hard to con to. To modulate.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I also think the sitcom plot version of this is like, richer or poor, being an Amish person rules. I'm gonna stay here forever. Getting really bullish. And then they're smacked down to earth and they learn their lesson versus all of it happening internally with this guy being so filtered through the tension

[David Sims]

moment. And it's a moment where they're both sort of like, this has no future that isn't chaotic or sad or disruptive.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna have to stay. Or you're gonna have to leave.

[David Sims]

Right. And like, look, they are an Anabaptist community. If Harrison. If John Book. Harrison Ford is John Book.

[Griffin Newman]

Harrison Ford is.

[David Sims]

John Book wants to stay, he's gonna have to get baptized and accept Jesus Christ. Like, they don't. They're not just like, oh, you like milk and cows hang out. They're like, we are all in on jc.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But the, the.

[David Sims]

The movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Do you agree the, the like, movie really does allide that, like, it's in the corner, they talk.

[David Sims]

The scene where the grandpa talks to him about the gun.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And God in that way. It's so good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's so good. But it does not say Jesus Christ. Yeah. You see them praying before meals, but it's silent. Like there. There is. It walks like a very fine cultural religious line.

[Griffin Newman]

Also to the point of everything we're saying.

[David Sims]

I get baptized.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that stuff not in the movie? Not because they're like avoiding it, but because that doesn't really benefit the story they're telling here.

[David Sims]

He's never about A man in spiritual crisis.

[Griffin Newman]

You said he's never going to be tempted by it doesn't seem that way. The idea of what if you double down on jc, right. He's going to be tempted on the day to day life aspect of it. Not the theology 100.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Totally. And also, and I think, and the, the, the basic mindset that underpins the day to day life as opposed to like the spirit is also kind of like.

[David Sims]

Okay, you're going to shack up with, with Rachel, right? Yeah. Welcome to the community. By the way, you met Joseph Summer. I mean not just you, you know, you met Grandpa.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You met Good enough. He's your age. It's kind of it like, it's like, it's like 60 people. This isn't like a T, you know,

[Griffin Newman]

you're like VGO's fifth build. He has three lines. It's pretty small.

[David Sims]

So what do you guys do all day? We milk cows and once in a while we raise a barn. Anything else? No, that's it. You go see movies. Not allowed.

[Griffin Newman]

This is one of VGO's that sucks.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That, that does suck.

[Griffin Newman]

Sucks. Go out.

[David Sims]

Except what if you met an Amish kid who had done Rum Springer?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he's just really locked in on like one year of movies. Like that's all he knows. But anyway.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry, Ron, I don't even know how to explain this.

[David Sims]

Made perfect sense to me Also.

[Griffin Newman]

These kids are coming to visit your, your country and they're telling you about the 4D movie they just saw about you. That.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You can't see. That's fucking hell. No. I, I just. A lot of the reviews at the time, time, I think, trying to crack who Weir was as a filmmaker, as he was so successfully making a transition and especially because this is like him working as a for hire director for the first time, but knocks it out of the park, gets a best director nomination. It's a big hit. What is the through line? What is this guy's magic? They all kind of identify that Weir's big thing is the, the clash of two communities butting up against each other. Each other. Even if it isn't dramatic, even if it isn't an intense clash. The friction. Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And that I think is so informed by, and obviously in his early Australian films it's very often textual. The like, origins of Australia as a country. Sure, Right. This weird like combativeness of like, who are we and who are these other people and who belongs here more? And I think he's just so, so. Well, he, he's very well judged in knowing how to balance these things and not using one side or the other as like a story.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Alley oop, you know, he's also interested, like in. In, like, in a group of people who live by their own. Their own code, their own world, who, like, who are kind of removed from the world in some way or another. Whether it's like, you know, like at a girl's school, just like in Girl land.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Or, you know, stuck in on a boat, stuck in, like reality world. But like, these people who are kind of closed off in some way or another from life as we know it. And then he has a character that punctures that world in most of the movies who, like, acts as the audience, like surrogate.

[Griffin Newman]

No, that's a great point. And whether the sects are like, sort of self formed or formed by like, unified interest or passion or community or tradition, whatever it is. Yes, there is almost always that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And he has, like, respect for that.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the big part of it, which I think is like, it's not like,

[Amanda Dobbins]

look at those weirdos.

[Griffin Newman]

But I think that's a big byproduct of someone, like, growing up in Australia and really spending time litigating as they grow up, rather than absolving, you know, like, what's going on here.

[David Sims]

I want to shout out the Czech actor Jan Rubesh, I think is his name, who plays the grandpa plays.

[Griffin Newman]

Eli was primarily odd person, right? Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he's so good. I mean, everyone in this movie playing Amish, you just. You don't bat an eye. You're just like. None of it feels like cosplay. You're just like, yeah, these are just guys. VGo obviously only pops out because you're like, oh, it's VGo. But VGo's got an Amish look to him.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the thing. He pops out because he's so striking looking, even if he didn't become Aragorn. But also he's striking in a way that fits perfect this film. He's human.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, okay.

[Griffin Newman]

All right.

[David Sims]

I almost just took a deep breath.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He was so angry. I saw like two hours in and I just started doing the. The taxonomy. I'm sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

That's also like a man.

[David Sims]

He is of the race of men now.

[Griffin Newman]

He is in love with Liv Tyler.

[David Sims]

True.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's an elf. And then Kate Blanchett is the queen of the elves.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, isn't she a different thing?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is she a true person?

[Griffin Newman]

Galadriel.

[David Sims]

I'm just letting you guys get this out of your system before so just. Yes, Galadriel is an elf. Of course she, she's in Rivendell and High Council.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Or wait, is Galadriel in? Jesus? Like, this is where like my whole thing with Lord of the Rings is like, I'm relatively read in on Lord of the Rings, but not in the way that, you know, with people who are truly read in. Right. It's like you've read the Bible.

[Griffin Newman]

Trillion listeners yelling at us. But I feel like she's not Riven because isn't Rivendell Hugo Weaving?

[David Sims]

No, no. That's what I always forget. So. So she's in Lothlorien. She's more of what you would call like, I think a wood elf or whatever. And Elrond, who is in Rivendell is more of what you call a high Elf. Those are more D and D terms. I shouldn't really use them just to say about Aragorn, he is man. He is a man.

[Griffin Newman]

He is a man.

[David Sims]

He's from the race of men.

[Griffin Newman]

He's a man. If you know what I'm saying.

[David Sims]

But he is descended from the Dunedain, also known as the Numenoreans, who in Lord of the Rings are kind of like slightly more magicy men. It's why he's very old. Aragorn is like already in Lord of the rings. He's almost 100 years old. What?

[Griffin Newman]

What?

[David Sims]

Again, the movie does not touch on these things because Peter Jackson wisely was like, my audience will say what?

[Griffin Newman]

Also the fucking age gap discourse.

[David Sims]

Well, no, Arwen is like hundreds of years old, okay? She's an elf.

[Griffin Newman]

I repeat. Except now I'm flipping the dynamic Arwen fucking cradle Robin.

[David Sims]

Arwen is, I think 204, 40. Ish.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, go off. Queen.

[David Sims]

And how long.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What is the lifespan of an elf?

[David Sims]

She lives about 3,000 years.

[Amanda Dobbins]

3,000? Oh, okay. That's why the whole thing.

[Griffin Newman]

She's very young too.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes, so there's no age gap if you're going by experience. See.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, but what would Aragorn's life expectancy be?

[David Sims]

I'm gonna Google this just because I'm not totally sure, but he dies at the age of 210 and he's about. He's about 90 in Lord of the

[Griffin Newman]

Rings, so in that case he's kind of middle aged and she's kind of a teenager within their lifespan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So.

[David Sims]

You know what, back on Eric, I know you just like, what are you up to, buddy? No, I think it's, you know, but that's what Lord of the Rings. Look, the Whole thing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

How old are the tree people?

[Griffin Newman]

Great question. I love. Can you bring up the tree people?

[Ben Hosley]

How much are they called?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I learned about them, like, three weeks ago.

[Griffin Newman]

They wrote a rule.

[David Sims]

Wait, but you surely have seen Lord of the Rings?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I did. I think I saw them in college. They did like, a back to back before. Return of the King is the third one and the Oscar winner. Right. So I saw two and three together, like, in a theater.

[Griffin Newman]

Heavy one.

[David Sims]

Two is two towers is heavy on Ents.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And I have read the Hobbit and I have retained absolutely nothing like you. I just. My brain will never hold on to that.

[David Sims]

Totally fine. And again, like, as a nerd, who is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's like my avatar.

[David Sims]

Yeah, totally.

[Griffin Newman]

Your brain just right. Turns off.

[David Sims]

But just. You know, the whole thing with Aragorn and Arwen is that in Lord of the Rings, the book that is mostly buried in a pen. Appendixes. And that was Peter Jackson being like, I, we need some ladies in these movies. You know what I mean? Like, the books are just so light on women. Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

The romance is not.

[David Sims]

It's in the app. Hennessies. Yeah. But, like, that's not. That's why in the movie, whenever they drop in with it, you are kind of like, what's up? Like, yeah, because it is just occasionally they'll just be like, FYI, I do love you live, Tyler. You are immortal and I am mortal. So I know that's kind of an issue. Anyway, I'll see you later. I have to go get this ring over to another place. Right. Yeah, know. And it's like, I think Peter Jackson was just striving to, like, broaden out as much as he could to include some ladies.

[Griffin Newman]

I do remember the first movie comes out. I was 12.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I was. What's it, 2001? I was 15. So. Yeah, you were 12.

[Griffin Newman]

And I didn't read the books until after I saw the first movie.

[David Sims]

You read all three books?

[Griffin Newman]

I think I read. I read Hobbit and maybe Through Two Towers. I think I never read Return of the King, but I was very in on the first movie. Movie. But I remember being very confused by how prominent Blanchet and Tyler were in the marketing and then seeing the movie and being like, they both have tiny parts. And now I get it where they were just like, we need to message to people that this isn't some high fantasy sausage party.

[David Sims]

JRR Tolkien was like, you know, he wasn't, like, big on, like, the interiority of ladies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You know, the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The romance and the appendices is the most, you know.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Boy I've ever heard.

[David Sims]

It's a little boyish. I mean, Rings is kind of the definition of boy stuff.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And like, you know, that's what. That show, the Amazon show that everyone loves. That's universal Popular, our favorite. Right. And inexpensive.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Produced a Burgundy ten times the price.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Never seen it.

[David Sims]

That one tries to, you know, have a younger Galadriel as its main character. I think, because they, again, they're conscious of, like, we should, you know, try to mine success.

[Griffin Newman]

That it does feel like Peter Jackson made films that were disproportionately popular with women relatively relative to the books at that time.

[David Sims]

It's the miracle of those movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, people now are just like, yeah, of course. Lord of the Rings is like, no, no, no. He really put the camel through the eye of the needle with those things. Like, those books are not easy to adapt. They're books, you know, and, like. And it's just a lot of information. And he kind of just always picked and chose what you need to know and what you don't, you know, and what. Stephen Colbert can fill in for you later. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then he did it perfectly again. Three more, not five.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Makes sense to everybody. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I'd love to do those movies one day. I do love them. And I even defend the hobbits for their sins.

[Griffin Newman]

God.

[Ben Hosley]

How long would the episode be, though?

[David Sims]

Well, I think a tight 90.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. The original or the extended cut?

[Ben Hosley]

90 weeks down.

[Griffin Newman]

Then we would have to do two cuts of each episode.

[David Sims]

Jesus. Okay. Well, my goodness.

[Ben Hosley]

Something to look forward to.

[David Sims]

So, Witness.

[Griffin Newman]

Can we talk about the central romance of Witness between.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I was going to say, can we talk about Harrison Ford dancing? How many times has Harrison Ford danced on film? I cannot think of it off.

[David Sims]

He. He does the Lombada in Frantic. No, I don't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, he does, like, a half shuffle in Working Girl at the wedding. Working Girl.

[David Sims]

One of his sort of loosest. Most sort of.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Because, you know, he's got to dance with, like, Bitsy or something in order to let Tess talk to Orin.

[David Sims]

Ha.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Trin has. Wait, who was a senator? And who is the character in Working Girl?

[David Sims]

Okay, one second, one second, one second.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oren Trask.

[Griffin Newman]

Orin Tras.

[David Sims]

Oren Trask is Philip Bosco in.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And Orin Hatch was a senator.

[David Sims]

Politics.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That I didn't like.

[David Sims]

He was the Utah senator who would occasionally, like, do, like, songs about eagle soaring as well. Right. He had, like, a kind of.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, one of those.

[Griffin Newman]

David, did you just Discover the exact

[David Sims]

same thing I did, that Harrison Ford in fact does dance to Grace Jones in Frantic. Oh, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Frantic. Yes.

[David Sims]

It seems to be one of Emanuel singing. I will say in this clip that I'm watching. I don't know if you're watching it, Griffin, he looks really stressed out, which is, of course, the vibe of Frantic in general. That he's kind of frantic.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. This is him looking. Yeah, absolutely.

[Ben Hosley]

He doesn't. He danced in Temple of Doom in that.

[David Sims]

Well, there's the big musical sequence, but I don't think of him as being involved. He's at the table.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's watching.

[David Sims]

Does he dance in the Sabrina remake? That's a movie I've never seen scene, but it feels like there could be a dance there.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But isn't he. I'm seeing here who else is in

[Griffin Newman]

him slow dancing with Julia or Mom. But it might be a very minimal.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's also like slow dancing. You can just, like, step back and forth. He's doing some twirls in this. He's acknowledging the rhythm.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Good call.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, he gets down and called the wild. He busts one.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah. And in K19, the Widowmaker, there's the. He raises choreographed dancing scene. Yeah, right. There was so much space for those guys to really move around. Yeah. I don't know. Cowboys and aliens. You dance in that.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's run through every credit.

[David Sims]

This is certainly. Look, Empire magazine. I invoke it a lot at this time. They used to have at the back page an iconic scene. And it would just be dialogue from the iconic scene. It was kind of like their way of a clip of an iconic scene. Right. And usually it would be something that was very dial. Dialogue heavy. Yeah. You know, something from a Kevin Smith movie. Right. You know what I mean? Something that was like Kryptonite condom. And then I remember one time they did this scene. I hadn't seen Witness yet. And it's basically just explaining a scene where they dance to a Sam Cook song. So it didn't pop in terms of dialogue, per se.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[David Sims]

But it was stuck in my head where I was like, wow, that scene must rock. If they were like, put it on the back page even though it's not funny. And then I watched the movie and I was like, yeah, like, this is one of the, like. It's like the perfect level of, like, aching romance. Not too. I mean, just the right amount of charm, right amount of goofiness.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I, you know, the. The editing where they, like, paw There are a couple moments where they stop and they're like looking at each other and you know, everyone is just like, oh my God, the world's. You know, everything's about to explode. And then they laugh again. I was also trying to. There's a smile and laugh that Harrison Ford does sort of at the end of it that is like goofy and sincere and maybe the only time I've

[Griffin Newman]

seen him deflate himself in that way.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But like, normally he is self deprecating and like a little ironic and like undercutting himself or and like a little rye.

[Griffin Newman]

That stuff does quietly only amp up his high status.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And so, but this is just kind of like he's. He's laughing, he's like, I just, you know, I was dancing and like being sweet and it's a really, really, really big smile.

[Griffin Newman]

It deflates him in that it makes him human.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's wonderful.

[Griffin Newman]

That's so much of Harrison Ford's thing is playing everything very close to the chest. And in that moment you're like, this guy isn't holding anything back anymore.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It feels like he is just present transparent with her.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He's so fucking good.

[David Sims]

He is. And that sounds pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

I love him so much.

[David Sims]

So why don't you marry John? I would.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I just like anytime we get to cover Harrison Ford movie on this podcast, you do, like, especially at his peak. You're just like one of the best to ever do it in that exact way that is always kind of taken for granted in its time. Even when he is basically like carrying half of the industry on his back. There was a thing, I was watching all the stuff on the excellent Arrow 4K set, but John Seal, legendary DP. This was his first time working with Weir, not his last.

[David Sims]

Last. That's what I was about to say with Harrison. We're about to do tomorrow record Mosquito coast, which is our next episode as well. Which is. Right. Harrison really pointedly trying to be like, I won't be charming Harrison Ford. I am going to take you into darkness.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, we'll talk about all that.

[David Sims]

And it's the big debate of that movie of like, right. Is he the guy for that? Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think he corrects afterwards and is like, I went too far. Audiences just don't want that for me. And he doesn't really try anything like that again. Like John Book.

[David Sims]

Flawed guys, but not.

[Griffin Newman]

But John Book becomes kind of the range of like where you can go before people start to reject what he's doing. But the great John Seal was Talking about how visually, this movie is very inspired by, like, Vermeer and the Dutch Masters in the use of light and, you know, having scenes lit by the sun through the window. Without trying to be too controlled and painterly about it, though, there are a couple.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That scene when he's, like, in having his literal fever dream and she. She is sitting there watching him and she, like, that is a recreation of it. Not a recreation, but that is, like, framed and lit. You know, lit in such a way that it was like. Oh, right. I also, too, you know, read the Goldfinch or whatever, the early sort of sitting. And that was Dutch Masters, right?

[David Sims]

Yeah, absolutely. Of course. And a movie that was electrifying.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, I so mad.

[David Sims]

That movie kept me so awake, Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

The most awake.

[David Sims]

I was so very awake throughout.

[Griffin Newman]

They made one mistake at the box office with that film, which was not titling it Caffeine the movie, Right. Goldfinch. What is this? Yeah, you call Caffeine the movie. Everyone would have showed up and they would have left happy and awake.

[David Sims]

So awake.

[Griffin Newman]

But John Seal talks about working really fast, right? That he likes boxing himself in, that he likes. Likes being instinctual. And he also feels you get better results out of the actual actors because they don't have to sit around and wait. That he's very collaborative in that sense. How LuPone was talking about being someone who also graduated from Juliard and then was doing TV and film and was like, this sucks. They call me to set and then there's another 40 minutes of adjustment. I'm losing my flow. I'm losing my energy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And that she was like, this set rules that Harrison Ford is all brass tax and loves it. And they were like, motoring each other, right? And he. He said, I really try not to direct actors in a way that some other DPs will, where they'll jump in and be like, if you could just do this. Yeah, it would help my shot.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, not like character motivation, directing like Weir does, but the sort of, like, is there any way you can do this 5 inches higher or 30% faster or whatever it is? And he said, I try not to do that. But Harrison, the term he used, Harrison has such good motor skills that I would go, Harrison. And he would just go, just tell me what it is and I'll do it. Like, forget the chuffa. And he would go, if it's this and this. And he goes, got it. And then he would do it perfectly, however many times he needed it.

[David Sims]

I mean, no wonder they Worked together

[Amanda Dobbins]

again, I think about. I mean, the way Harrison Ford moves in movies. Suddenly he's spinning around or he's over here. He does seem to have a real sense of not just where the came camera is, but where he needs to. It's. It's.

[Griffin Newman]

Motor skills was a perfect way of putting it because I'm like, I. I get that he is a great visual storyteller, that he understands that part of his job as an actor is how to carry the audience through the story. I understand that he has incredible screen presence and understanding of the medium and how to pop on it. But motor skills is like, right. That's not even like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's like movie athleticism, right?

[Griffin Newman]

And he was like, it's not something he, like, learned. It's not something he was trained to.

[Amanda Dobbins]

To do.

[Griffin Newman]

It's truly just. He's actually built in a way that makes him better at processing that. And they were saying that, like, he was really nervous at the beginning of filming the movie, that he hadn't made that many films, that he was not seen as a serious actor, that the movies he was in had so much spectacle around them that this was the first real test of, like, you are the thing the whole time.

[David Sims]

And he's beautiful.

[Griffin Newman]

And up until this point, every movie he had been a part of, people were like, well, that's the magic of Spielberg. That's the magic of. Of Lucas or Blade Runner didn't work right. That same morning daytime interview, the woman's like, is there any movie of yours that you want to apologize for? And he's like, you know, not every movie works, but you try your best. And she was like, interesting, because I thought you were going to say Blade Runner.

[David Sims]

Oh, my goodness.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're like, right at this moment in time, people were like, blade Runner was black Adam for him, that it was like the stain on his career, but that he felt like, do you like Blade Runner?

[David Sims]

Amanda does not feel like a huge Amanda movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And it's, you know, I'm more of an alien person than Blade Runner in the Ridley Scott canon, for sure. I'm maybe even more of a House of Gucci person than that. But, you know, I live in Los Angeles, and there is like a certain type of. There's a certain type of weather or day or even building where I'm just like, oh, it's Blade Runner. It's Blade Run hours. And it's. I mean, the visual, like, language of it. It's what. It also is one of those things where it's like, you Learned the way you learned that visual look before you saw the movie. For people of our generation, like, it just invented it. So, yeah, I admire it. Like, do I fire it up and sit through the whole thing?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But, you know, whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Same as you were. It has never been one of my movies. Every couple of years, I'll throw on a cut and give it another shot. And I always receive it more than I love it. And yet I think about it constantly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I am also, like, Sean Young is a real pain point for me.

[Griffin Newman]

I have a similar thing. I'm a little allergic to her.

[David Sims]

I'm a little allergic to Sean Young, too. But not in Blade Runner, where she works as.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She works as it.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But it's like, I still am watching, like, I think I'm, like, still so mad about no Way out, which I know chronologically comes after several years later. Several years later. But it's like where I started with Sean Young, and I'm just like. Like, this is. I'm gonna lose my mind. And then I'm just watching her, and I'm just like, please, come on.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. That feeling of, like, growing, being a 90s kid and then discovering the 80s Sean Young Cannon and being like, how did this happen? How did she get so big and work in every genre?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, she has a presence.

[Griffin Newman]

She does.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There is, like. And no way out. You need something. Something. You need a loose cannon, you know, she certainly needs something off kilter.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know. I'm not being very feminist, but anyway, no, but, like, yeah, Blade Runner, they did good.

[Griffin Newman]

But I think, like, Kelly McGillis. Because Top Gun is such a silly part and is such a Tom Cruise vehicle, and she exists just to serve him. And then the Accused is a movie where it's just like. Well, Jody Foster completely takes control of that. Right.

[David Sims]

She's the story of the movie. Movie, for sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And Kelly McGillis was offered that part first.

[David Sims]

Right. And was like, I don't want to play that part.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's more interesting to do this.

[David Sims]

She's top, Bill. Yeah, she's top.

[Griffin Newman]

And then it's like everyone forgets. It's just Jody Foster sweeps the awards.

[David Sims]

And it is. It's Jody Foster's star moment, too. It's like, you know, Jody Foster, obviously, right? Her. Her career is exploded. She's good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Jody Foster, good actress.

[Griffin Newman]

Very good actress. But I think Kelly McGill is. Is kind of like history doesn't give her enough credit. This is the one you watch. She got both a Globe and A BAFTA nomination for this. But the whole reason she doesn't get an Oscar nomination is apparent in looking at. I think the Globes nominated her in supporting and BAFTA nominated her in lead.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And I have to imagine this performance that got caught.

[David Sims]

But I imagine they may have run her in supporting because she was new. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like the classic didn't pick a side and so she didn't have 85.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is that terms of endearment?

[David Sims]

No. So 85 is. I mean, it's a movie you love. We all love it. It's the movie of. It's the best movie of all time. It's called out of Africa.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, sh.

[David Sims]

I mean, Red forgot the last laugh.

[Griffin Newman]

I suppose William Hurt beats Ford.

[David Sims]

So William Hurt beats Ford for Kiss of the Spider Woman.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, sure.

[David Sims]

And yeah, it's. I mean, it's kind of a bad Oscar year. It's the Color Purple year and, you know, you could argue for that in Best Actress or whatever, but no, we had to take the trip to Mountain Plentiful.

[Griffin Newman]

Whoopi should have won.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

And then Art out of Africa kind of sweeps the text. Witness wins editing and screenplay, which are two very sensible wins for it because it's such a, like, well constructed, efficient, you know, hour, 40 minute movie. Well, no, it's more than an hour. Like, close our five. Yeah, yeah. But like, you know what I mean, like, where you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of Africa gets all the big sumptuous, like, scores. Cinematography, art direction, you know, all that. That. And then they just hand out these odd four acting Oscars. William Hurt, Donna Meechi, Geraldine Page, and then Angelica Houston. And Pritzy's Honor, which I have said before, is a performance where you're like, oh, did Houston pop off? And you watch it and you're like,

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, she's fine, she's fine.

[David Sims]

She's all right.

[Griffin Newman]

But it was this like, sort of like silence. The haters win where.

[David Sims]

Right. It was like, yeah, she told her dad she would gonna do it and she did it.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Even though he didn't like her.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't. Also, like.

[David Sims]

It was like a.

[Griffin Newman]

When I saw Cocoon for the first time, I was like, that's the fourth performance I would nominate in supporting actor out of this movie.

[David Sims]

But like, it's another weird one of like, no one else up for the award. Is that.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, it obviously should have been Christopher Lloyd, Back to the Future. That should have been his Oscar.

[David Sims]

Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I mean, who do I have.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This is a weird year.

[Griffin Newman]

Is this the same year as Karate Kid, where they nominate Pat Morita.

[David Sims]

No, no. Okay, the nominees for supporting actor, if you must know, Fos Maria Brandor out of Africa, of course. William Hickey in Pritzi's Honor. He's a billion years old and you know, hat tip.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Robert.

[David Sims]

Robert Logan, Jagged Edge.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Who is he?

[David Sims]

In Jagged Edge plays a subtle and restrained guy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wait, wait, who is he?

[David Sims]

Robert Loa.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I have not seen Jagged Edge in.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know, I'm like reading. Okay, who is he? Look, let's look at.

[David Sims]

He plays Sam Ransom.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. He's a private detective. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

As he, I guarantee you, he yells.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The only thing I honestly remember about Jagged Hedge is that Jeff Bridges, his house is like kind of my dream house.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So. And he does look very handsome. It's, it's, it's a beautiful like Spanish style home.

[David Sims]

Sure. Throw. Throw on the edge.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Take it to the edge.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Call me Bono.

[Griffin Newman]

You're going to get that.

[David Sims]

Anyway, I got to find the edge. And Eric Robertson, Runaway Train. Great performance. Very big performance in that movie. That's a big movie. But you know, it does kind of feel like they went to Don Amici, just kind of like. Well, I guess he's a legend, right? He's old.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Those old people, you know, like it's, it's a year of out of Africa and like these old like Geraldine Page, Don Amech. It does not feel like a year where the youngs are like pumped up by the Oscars.

[Griffin Newman]

80s acting wins more so than any other decade. Have a ton of that. Where like things where as a 15

[David Sims]

year old, we're cleaning up, you know,

[Griffin Newman]

mistakes of the 50s, 15 year old trying to like fill in Oscar gaps. And I'm watching these movies and being like that performance won. And then you go to Wikipedia and you're like, oh, it won because of shit from 40 years earlier.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean even this being like the Sydney Pollock coronation, very bizarre is, is really lame.

[Griffin Newman]

It's.

[David Sims]

It's just the wrong movie for it. That movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't want to get away from the horniness of Witness because I feel like we need to let, we need to fully explore this a little bit. Can you talk about. Harrison Ford is like your ultimate.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think he's probably the hottest. Yeah. Like, I mean, you know, like the last solid dude. And, and some of that is. I don't. The restraint, the self deprecation, the like, I don't want to be doing this, you know, is. It's appealing to me personally. That's like, that's my flavor of. That's. That's the vibe that I'm going for.

[Griffin Newman]

And there's a still waters run deep thing with him where you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You never sense. Unlike a lot of other 80s macho movie stars, there is always clearly a sensitivity that is barely being covered.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. Though I'm also not that worried about. He's. He's soft. There's, like, a soft side.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But there's. It's. It's not an emo thing going on.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And it's like, I'm not gonna have to take care of him at any point.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. But he's also not playing Dirty Harry.

[David Sims]

He's not gonna do the dishes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Totally.

[David Sims]

He is.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a kind of perfect balance.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. It's like he manages it very well. And he is also just, you know, classically so handsome. He is like, early 40s, which is very unfairly when most men really come into the. Their own.

[Ben Hosley]

And I mean, look at.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Look at us. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, I'm just waiting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The haircut is good. Yeah. You'll get there.

[Griffin Newman]

What if I turn 40 and I gain six inches?

[David Sims]

Oh, six inch summer.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, six inch summer. I'm like, oh, I'm hot now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. I. For me, there is. It's kind of still working girl. Sure is. Is the hottest. Because he's doing a little more screen screwball, I was gonna say.

[Griffin Newman]

How much of that is character and performance versus, like, the setting there?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

He's kind of unstoppable in this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's like. But it's like he's in the same phase of life. So purely visually, there they are together.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And he. It's. And he has shirtless scenes in both, you know, and he just really. Like, in the 80s, like, we didn't have macro boys in the same way we didn't have protein shakes. Like, we weren't optimizing. And I. I preferred that.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a year after Temple of Doom, which, as we talked about a lot in that episode at the time, the press was. You will not believe how big Harrison Ford got for Temple of Doom.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And you look at the movie now, and you're like, this is maybe the biggest anyone should ever get. We've gotten so out of whack now that it's not that he looks skinny, but that what the idea of, like, the shape you get into for a movie. And he's still basically in that shape in this, where you're just like. He's just kind of perfect physical form. Without looking like a mutant.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He just. He looks healthy and, like he can run someone down or, like, you know, find a rifle in a. In a large silo of corn, you

[David Sims]

know who drowns in the silo of corn?

[Griffin Newman]

Who?

[David Sims]

Angus McInnes plays that character, I believe. And do you know who he is?

[Griffin Newman]

Griffin?

[David Sims]

No. Gold Leader. This is Gold. Beginning my trench run Now. Star Wars.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Once you said trench run, I was like, oh, yeah, I know who that is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Tracy Letts is Fuming Leader.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Tracy Letts is, like, snoring.

[David Sims]

So he gets so hopefully we got his ass. He was on that episode and we got his ass.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Wait, so he's starting his trench run. Does that mean he's on the. The good side or the bad side?

[David Sims]

He's on the good side. He's Gold Leader.

[Griffin Newman]

He.

[David Sims]

He pilots the Y wing, and he is really stoic.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

The whole thing with Gold Leader is he's the guy who's, like, really, really measured. Even when they're getting their Y wings blown to bits, he rocks.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Great performance.

[Griffin Newman]

He an Alec Guinness relative?

[David Sims]

No, his name is Angus McInnes.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, okay.

[David Sims]

McInnes.

[Griffin Newman]

I was hearing it differently, but I

[David Sims]

think he's of Scottish.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Okay. Yeah, Great. Great actor. This is Gold Leader.

[Griffin Newman]

Dutch Vander.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that is that right. Of course, later, they told us all their names in the books and such, but he's Gold Leader to me, and he's in Rogue One because they splice in that footage, which I love.

[Griffin Newman]

We love it.

[David Sims]

I really do. It actually likes me to tears.

[Griffin Newman]

I love it so much more than the cgi.

[David Sims]

That's what you do. You splice in just footage that you have of them just going, this is Gold Leader. And you're like, yeah, that's all I need.

[Griffin Newman]

That's all I need. Just show me the old thing. Amanda, I have a gift for you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, my goodness.

[Griffin Newman]

It is a shirtless Harrison Ford action figure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This is real?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Wait, what's this from?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you so much. Oh, my goodness. Okay, so what is this?

[David Sims]

He's carrying a spear.

[Griffin Newman]

You can throw out the other pieces that make it more specific. This is supposed to be in Temple of Doom.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was gonna say this looks like Indiana Jones from this. He's wearing khaki pants.

[Griffin Newman]

It's when he's hypnotized and quickly turns evil.

[David Sims]

Do I want Indie? I guess if I want a shirtless Harrison, that's what I want. But, like, do I want an Indie sans hat?

[Griffin Newman]

David, I agree with you. There's a reason I'm gifting this action figure to Amanda.

[David Sims]

You're gifting it because you're her friend.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But so both.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm like, I don't need this. And I think this could have some specific value for you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This is really huge, actually, because my kids have gotten. Or Knox is the older. Has gotten to the phase where he wants to like he has all his trucks, but he like wants someone to drive the truck, you know, so. And we do have some Harrison Ford in Temple of Doom sized trucks, I think. Yeah. So I mean, get rid of that.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's got a weird like sash.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. But do you know how quickly this goes into someone's eyes?

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Yeah.

[David Sims]

They'll run around with it. You don't want your kids running around with it.

[Ben Hosley]

And sometimes it's good to learn a lesson.

[Griffin Newman]

String sash as well. But if that's true, then it's just shirtless Harrison Ford with a weird marking on his forehead. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's interesting how his legs are attached to his body. So he has a lot of joint

[Griffin Newman]

flexibility, which is great.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But that also means that the, the nature of his pants. It looks like he's wearing a khaki diaper and then khaki unavoidable with a

[David Sims]

lot of these action figures.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Which.

[David Sims]

The diapering.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Guys, you're using terms that are constant on the message board. The diaper effect is a real. He is plague of the action figure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Really, really. Like, it's like he's focused on mobility,

[Griffin Newman]

you know, and he's. He's very shirtless.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I do think shoulders moving well.

[Griffin Newman]

I do think it accurately captures the appeal of shirtless Harrison Ford in this era.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It really does.

[Griffin Newman]

It's got his body and he's not too swole. No, it's. It's kind of correct.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you so much for this gift.

[David Sims]

Honestly. Apart from Red Hulk, of course. President Hulk.

[Griffin Newman]

Nothing but respect.

[David Sims]

Who is. What is the swolest Harrison Ford ever got?

[Griffin Newman]

It's Temple of Doom.

[David Sims]

It's probably Temple of Doom. At least. He's the most shirtless.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He has some scars on. On his back.

[David Sims]

Yeah. He gets whipped in that movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, like, I understood what they were, but explaining that to a three year old is going to be interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I give you my pro tip?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Nail polish remover. Oh, I'd say just cute. Nail polish remover. I assumed as much.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you could do that. And then there's the weird mark on the forehead that's I think part of his possession.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

If you, if you Dare to do five minutes of activity on this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I can do that. They.

[Griffin Newman]

They made a bunch of figures when the last Indiana Jones came out of all the previous films, but they made like 20 different versions of Indiana Jones versus the supporting characters to witness.

[David Sims]

I just, I'm feeling a little bit of stress on, like, have we talked enough about Witness the film? Witness. Witness. Witness.

[Griffin Newman]

Witness. David?

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

You and I have a lot of shared interests. Common interest film, dumb movies, comedy podcasts, life, New York City, bagels, sandwiches.

[David Sims]

These are all true sleep. Oh, I love sleep so much.

[Griffin Newman]

Sleep rules so much. It is kind of wild how sleep is constantly underrated. I don't think people give it enough

[David Sims]

credit, and it gets credit.

[Griffin Newman]

And nonetheless, even when it's bad, it's good.

[David Sims]

I mean, it's just so true.

[Griffin Newman]

It's true.

[David Sims]

I am living proof right now. You are, Because Lisa sponsored the show. And when they sponsored the show, they said, would you like a mattress?

[Griffin Newman]

Sent over a big honking mattress.

[David Sims]

And I was like, it's time. I'm switching to a king mattress.

[Griffin Newman]

You're a king.

[David Sims]

I'm getting a bigger bed. My kids sometimes will pile into it. I need this much. I need as much square footage as possible on this sucker.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you need hop on pop space.

[David Sims]

I do. Now, listen. I mean, Lisa, they've got this lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses. They're all tailored for different sleep positions, different feel preferences, but they've all got premium materials. They've all got full body support no matter how you sleep. They're all designed and assembled in the USA. They've all got a free shipping, easy returns 12020 night sleep trial that you can go by. Awarded the best hybrid mattress by Wirecutter at the New York Times. Exclusively featured by West Elm. They're the go to mattress provider over there. It's good stuff. Yeah. And they donate thousands of mattresses each year to those in need.

[Griffin Newman]

That's huge.

[David Sims]

Partner with organizations like Clean Hub to remove harmful plastic waste from the ocean.

[Griffin Newman]

It's nice to hear that they care, and it's nice to hear all those endorsements, but really, I. I think there is no stronger endorsement than David Sims, the sleepy king. The most tired man in America. Saying that Lisa hits just right.

[David Sims]

I love it and I use it. And this is a true endorsement.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, boy.

[David Sims]

They're all endorsements, but this is about as endorsementy as an endorsement gets. I don't know what to tell you. Go to Lisa.com for 20 off mattresses, plus get a extra $50 off with promo code blank check. Exclusive for our listeners. That's l, e e s8.com promo code blank check for 20% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Support our show and let them know we sent you after checkout. That's Lisa.com promo code blank check. I guess. Are there any scenes I do want to talk about?

[Griffin Newman]

I do want to talk about the boobies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, okay.

[David Sims]

Yes, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

To put it in the most respectful. Okay.

[David Sims]

Because like the stages of their sort of relationship, whatever is like, right. Initial, he's helping conversational flirtation, dancing.

[Griffin Newman]

Her kind of laughing at him.

[David Sims]

Trying to address familiarity than the dancing. Then her kind of letting him look at her naked like this sort of like this like quiet tense moment.

[Griffin Newman]

So electric about that.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

And then the kissing in the rain is the, the end of it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Crucially, like Die Hard guy shows up and has been.

[David Sims]

He's circling like a.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's circling from Vulture from like he has no chill. He is at the funeral.

[David Sims]

How many ladies are around.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, I, I get it.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But so he shows up, seems like a nice guy.

[David Sims]

Like he's not a villainous character.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Totally.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But she is not feeling it.

[David Sims]

She's just not feeling it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And so Harrison Ford makes himself scarce.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then she goes and finds him, which is like. And then he's, he's doing carpentry. So, you know, a little. There we go.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So that, I mean that scene is always important to me in there.

[Ben Hosley]

The community even acknowledges their tension.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Because I think it's kind of like so palpable. What else are they going to talk about?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But also they just, they want to keep things closed loop. They want good enough to just come in there and just like immediately get her remarried. I, I also we said that they, they were really struggling in casting that part. His casting director suggests Goodnov. He's like a dancer. Like, I don't we need a real actor for this. And she was like, just meet with him. I just saw him perform. I got a vibe.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Meet with him. And, and is like the look was obviously right. His energy was so gentle and his smile was so disarming. And he said the big math problem he was trying to solve with that casting is the end of my movie is going to be Harrison Ford driving off and this guy walking towards the house. And the audience has to feel like that isn't a death sentence for her. They have to feel like if she ends up with him, that's not a bad situation.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And so even while there's the intention, internal, in the moment movie. You need to still feel vaguely good enough about that guy. And he was like. It truly just was. When he smiled, it worked. And I was like, if I can put that on screen four times and he can be himself and just maintain this kind of like, sensitive energy, we're good, right? Yeah,

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, he is good and good enough. He's good enough.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Absolutely.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Great kid performance.

[David Sims]

Lucas Haas.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Isn't extraordinary.

[David Sims]

Look, the thing with him is he became a good actor. Like. Right. He's a good adult actor. I like Lucas Haas all the time. You watch this performance and correctly, like, what the movie wants you to think is the reaction you have, which is like, this is a kid. They Amish kid. They found somehow.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

They plucked this kid out of. Out of, like, the darkest, like, you know, most obscure part of the country. Like, there's no way. Like, there's no way this as an actor.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, he's so natural.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

He's so beautiful. Like, he just looks like, drawing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And like, his eyes are so incredible and he's so sweet. Can I, like, he's such a cute.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I tell the Weir story about directing the bathroom scene?

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So Weir was, like, very sensitive of, like, he's very young.

[David Sims]

This is a disturbing scene.

[Griffin Newman]

He's a precocious kid. He's smart. He's read the script. He seems to understand it. But that's very different from actually seeing it.

[David Sims]

Of course. Course.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And he was like. And I. I wanted to make the bathroom seem very violent and upsetting, so I was very, like, set on. I'm not going to show it to him. We're going to shoot this separately on two different days, and I just need him to act it because I don't want him to have that in his mind. And they're shooting the Lucas host day, and Weir's like, he's just not getting it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

And he goes to him and he's like, lucas, no pressure, but you're like, letting down the movie right now.

[David Sims]

Jesus.

[Griffin Newman]

Is the way he words it. And Lucas Haas clearly remembers it, like, verbatim. Both he and Weir tell the same story with the same wording. And Lucas Haas, as, like a little grown up, says, like, well, the problem is it's pretty hard to stare at, like a taped X at the wall.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And act really scared. And Weir says to him, says, welcome to Hollywood again. No.

[David Sims]

What did he say?

[Griffin Newman]

No, he says, you're letting down the movie. We need to figure something Out. And he says, here's. Here's what I suggest. I need you to look at that X and I need you to think of the most scared you've ever been by anything in your life. And don't tell me what it is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

But just when I call action, make that the X.

[David Sims]

What if he said, it's right now this is the most.

[Griffin Newman]

You just told me. I'm down there. And he was like. And he did it. And he just nailed it immediately.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And he never revealed what it was

[David Sims]

and he won't reveal now. No, sure. Spiders or something.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, probably spiders.

[David Sims]

Spider writers. Yeah. So for my daughter, it would be when Ursula gets too huge in the Little Mermaid.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That is really scary.

[David Sims]

That's her number one. Like, we're not. We're not gonna watch that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, yeah, I don't like her when she's very huge.

[Griffin Newman]

I want to go back to the bathing scene for a second because there's a moment in it that I think is kind of like the perfect grace note within this film, which is, you know, he walks up, she turns around, she exposes herself. It's like, building with, like, thriller tension where we're seeing these extreme close up of, like, sponge on her shin. We're aware that she's naked, but we're not seeing her naked body. And you're seeing Harrison Ford come upstairs and you know the confrontation's about to happen. And you, as the audience are wondering what's going to come of it. Right, right. And he walks up, she turns around. You cut out to, like a cowboy shot. So you're seeing her topless for the first time and aware that this is what he's seeing. And then it's extreme close up on Harrison Ford. And he looks at her and with, like, incredible motor control, just kind of throws his gaze down. Like, he looks and then makes the statement in if you're not going to turn back around, I'm going to do the gentlemanly thing. And nothing is said.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's great.

[Griffin Newman]

It's incredible.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, Peter Weir does not love dialogue as much as other people. That's. But, like, the amount that is shown rather than said in this. In this movie is, I think, amazing and also one of its, like, great achievements.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely. You know, and even if it was kind of nothing dialog, like, oh, my God, I'm sorry. Like, it was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it's. Don't do it.

[Griffin Newman]

More powerful for it to be, like, full fucking, like, passion of the show. And just, like, this is just them looking at each Other. And cutting back and forth between. Seen them.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And then it's like her kind of disappointment that she's not looking. That he's not looking any longer, even though she knows he's probably right. And then he follows it up the next day with the line.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is just such an exquisite.

[David Sims]

It's like, what's supposed to happen? Right. But also, that's what he's saying.

[Griffin Newman]

Movie in 10 words. Right. It's like the perfect Harrison Ford thing of. He's gonna say the least he can possibly say.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. And he even. I was watching this on, like, a low volume last night because I didn't want to keep up everyone else in the apartment. And the. The. The second half, like. Or you'd have to leave. He, like, almost whispers. So I had to go and, like, turn it back up. I was like, no, no, no. I need this, you know, I need the full thing.

[Griffin Newman]

We think they don't sleep together. In actuality, it does.

[David Sims]

No, they don't. No. They just kiss.

[Griffin Newman]

Boil over and they kiss in the middle of a field. Yeah, that's.

[David Sims]

That's the extent of them letting something happen. And they almost immediately are like, again, confronted with, what's the end game here?

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Thanos.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We're all adults, you know, which is like the theme of this movie. We're adults.

[Griffin Newman]

But also, you've got your farm.

[David Sims]

I've got my shitty Pennsylvania Philadelphia apartment, whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, if they didn't kiss, they would maybe explode, though.

[David Sims]

Like, something's gotta happen.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And they are essentially, like, eating each other's faces. Yeah. It's like, that's the nature of the kiss.

[Griffin Newman]

They're kissing the shit out of each other.

[David Sims]

But she. You get the impression it's just so good that it's not about how this life oppresses her, but it's also not about how this life is perfect. Perfect for her. She does have longing for more, but she's not sure she is longing for that, like, entire divorce from this community. She has. That does clearly matter to her.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

She has her version of the maybe we should call them X women speech with her father.

[David Sims]

I mean, which was perfected in the film X Men Dark Phoenix, where she says, maybe we should call them X women.

[Griffin Newman]

It took 10 movies and we finally got there. She asked the real questions, gave the real answers.

[David Sims]

That scene's a real, real.

[Griffin Newman]

Pack it up Hollywood on everything.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Just pack it up. Let's stop making movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me. Let me put it this way. I don't think it's unrelated that A global pandemic happened within six months of that line of dial.

[David Sims]

Oh, boy. Yeah. That's wonderful.

[Griffin Newman]

But the scene with her father where he's kind of like, I'm seeing too much chemistry.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And you cannot allow yourself to be a ruined woman.

[David Sims]

Right, Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then he, like you, you know, it's one of the few expository pieces of writing where he's like, you will be shunned. And it means that I can't do this and I can't, you know, can't do that. And like. And it's like. It's like real stakes, but somehow doesn't also in it, it, like, matters to them. So it doesn't make it seem, like, bizarre or, you know, weird. Like just like, you know, creepy. It still has respect for what's going on. Like, their rules are important to them. And so it's like, really important that be still be able to follow them.

[Griffin Newman]

I love that the plotting of this movie is they immediately. All the dirty cops immediately know what he did. Yeah, he went to fucking Amish.

[David Sims]

And then they just cannot.

[Griffin Newman]

There's no mystery search for him because

[David Sims]

they don't have bones.

[Griffin Newman]

They call the closest precinct.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But. And that. The. That cop is awesome. He's like, great. He's like, there are so many laps, you know?

[David Sims]

And I love that guy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's so great.

[David Sims]

But I do love that guy too. Like, that guy's job is just like. Yeah. I don't know, man.

[Griffin Newman]

They don't have folks feed up on his desk being like. Like, this is nothing I can do, bro.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Good luck to you.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right, right.

[David Sims]

And they're like, this is about cop killing. He's like, I don't give a. I

[Griffin Newman]

mean, he doesn't say that when he goes into town, he calls on a pay phone to check on his partner, finds out that he died. That's why.

[David Sims]

Of course. That's why. He's right. Especially full of rage.

[Griffin Newman]

So then he calls. The chief is like, you can't trace this call, but you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The chief is having a barbecue.

[David Sims]

Joseph Summer is so good in that shit. Because, like, Joseph, some are really good at playing a guy who is in over his head.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

He just wanted some speed money. Yeah, right. He didn't really want to go out there, be murdering, like, cops, like, thinking about this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, so $22 million.

[David Sims]

A lot of money from.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it's a lot of money. And like, this is in the 80s,

[Griffin Newman]

so Harrison Ford salary.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. But it's like, so because you sold some confiscated speed or like an important barrel, like in the confiscated speed. And everyone's buying their speed from Philadelphia. So.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that Philly speed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But like, how. How is he using that money without people noticing?

[David Sims]

Oh, it's a great question.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It is a nice house.

[Ben Hosley]

It didn't have a cash economy in those days.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's gotten along, but it's still

[Amanda Dobbins]

like, suddenly, like, you show up with a new, you know, car. Like, aren't people going to notice?

[Griffin Newman]

It is a flourish I love in this film that when he calls, his wife picks up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And she's immediately panicked. You see it on her face. It's not in text, but it's a beautifully celebrated.

[David Sims]

She's got the hint, her brain of like, has something been going on?

[Griffin Newman]

I think she knows I watch it and see it.

[David Sims]

Or she suspects.

[Griffin Newman]

She knows what's paying for all of this.

[David Sims]

Right, right, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Because she picks up and it's immediately like, this is the guy who's circling in.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's just all about to fall.

[Amanda Dobbins]

A beautiful suburban home.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And even when she tells her husband to pick up the phone, she's very slow to put the phone back on the receiver.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But I see her consider, do I want to listen in?

[Amanda Dobbins]

But, like, more broadly, I am like, where to you? What's your strat with, like, the 22 million that came out of nowhere. If you're like the police sergeant or whatever, like, what is the. It's.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a terrible plan. It is sort of. What is his undoing? I mean, I like that, the way he's able to defeat him. You know, he can only corn one guy to death. Right.

[David Sims]

He corn's gold leader.

[Griffin Newman]

He corns him.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I'm so glad we're bringing that because explain what happens. And I did want to talk about this, this scene.

[Griffin Newman]

The Cornstone.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, not the. No, the Corning's good, but the content.

[David Sims]

He shoots Danny Glover.

[Griffin Newman]

He shoots Danny Glover with a big old shotgun.

[David Sims]

Danny Glover, probably the most straight up villainous character in that. We watched him murder someone else, but

[Griffin Newman]

then he's out of bullets.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got a corn gold leader.

[David Sims]

Joe. He's right. And Joseph Summer, you know, the Chief takes, you know, through a series of, you know, Lucas Haas is trying to help or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

He tells Lucas Hoss to run to protect himself.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But Lucas Hoss doesn't.

[Griffin Newman]

He doesn't. He rings the bell. The whole community comes and he's got

[David Sims]

this boy and he's doing the whole, like, I'm going to kill, you know, like, you know, and Harrison Ford's just like, you're gonna kill a kid. I mean, right? Like, you know, there's this, like, tension of.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me correct you.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, go ahead.

[Griffin Newman]

He has Harrison Ford. Then they walk out of the barn, right? Then he sees that everyone's there, right? And Joseph Summer's still like, I'm gonna fucking shoot you.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

And he's holding the shotgun, and Harrison Ford jumps over to their side, right? And Harrison Ford is the one who's like, you're gonna shoot her? You're gonna shoot him, right? You're gonna shoot the kid.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You're gonna shoot the kid. And then he grabs. He grabs the kid in front of him and I have a note.

[David Sims]

Okay, okay, Right. This is the thing. It's not the chief, right? It's Book, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Correct. And McGillis, like, shrieks.

[David Sims]

I mean, she's so good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was like, listen, I think John Book, like, everything he does, spot on, except for.

[David Sims]

So you think this is just him gambling a little too much?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would not put the kid in front of me. And in general, I don't think that you want to give the visual of you ever putting a child between you and a shot, guys.

[David Sims]

But I guess. Sure, but I guess Book is the only one who knows this guy. Everyone else doesn't know this guy also.

[Griffin Newman]

He doesn't.

[David Sims]

He's basically like, you're a fucking.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, doesn't quite do things by the book.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But you're.

[David Sims]

He's like, you're a white collar cop, right? You know, you're. Yeah. You don't get your hands dirty. You get these other guys. Gold Leader and Danny Glover.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna paraphrase it. I forget what the wording is, and it's better than what I'm about to say. But there's the scene where he says to him the sort of like, lost your way thing, right? Where he's like, so, what happened? Lost your way, right? And someone's like, what are you talking about? And he's like, remember we used to say that about dirty cops? Yes. Yeah, yeah, right? And I think he's calling his bluff on that. When you're saying, like, what's his plan with the $22 million? What he's calling the bluff on in that moment is just like, this is unsustainable.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

What are you gonna do? They're 20 witnesses.

[David Sims]

Well, that's the other thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Are you gonna be a guy who shoots kids? And then you're gonna have to shoot more people to cover this up?

[David Sims]

But I mean, it's great. There's too many witnesses.

[Griffin Newman]

It's never gonna end.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's the title of the movie. Movie. Yes. He maxes out on witnesses.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Like he really overloads it.

[Griffin Newman]

But the large point is like, how much are you willing to do to preserve having $22 million? Because it's never. You're never going to get to the other side of this. You're never going to be clean.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's over. It's over. That's. I think. I think those are great points.

[Griffin Newman]

It's high risk what he's doing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I just, I. I think grabbing the kid.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'd rethink it. That's my note.

[Griffin Newman]

Now can I give my argument for it? Not for the move, but for the move with within the movie. I think the function of that is him kind of recognizing, oh, I could never stay here. That like the three dirty cops show up and he immediately goes back into old school John Book mode.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's doing action movie moves.

[David Sims]

Jumping around.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And he's being frivolous in that kind of way.

[David Sims]

Yeah. He's not being plain. This is not a plane.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not being plain. And it's like it clocks something in him and in her of. Of just like, I adjusted to this for longer than I thought I could. And yet so quickly I go back to being 80s movie comic.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, as he says in the scene when he fights the dude, you know, the grandpa's like, it's not our way. He's like, but it's my way.

[Griffin Newman]

It's already bubbling back up inside him. And then his kind of farewell speech to Lucas Haas happens. Entirely emotional Os.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You see them in a distance. She's watching them have whatever the emotional talk is that we don't hear a syllable we understand, but something has happened. And then he's gonna have the totally kind of silent goodbye.

[David Sims]

And also, you be careful out there among them. English is just a perfect kiss off.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like where he's like, you know, he knows he's given something up. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I. I think part of the point is that even though it works out, he up in that function final moment.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. That the fact that it works out isn't actually a feather in his cap.

[David Sims]

That's what you're saying, though. Even if he up or. It's just like his presence is just a fundamental problem.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Can't be solved.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Too bad. I bet he's really good at sex. Just that much anger, you know, there's just something there. That's our energy. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, he's good with his hands. We know that for a fact. We do.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is it also like, that's when Carrie Fiser finally, you know, wrote the autobiography and was like, yes, we had an affair. And she was just like. And Harrison knew what he was doing. Like, wasn't that the review? Yeah, what better?

[David Sims]

I mean, he was a good deal older than her, but isn't that the

[Griffin Newman]

exact review you want in life? Yeah, he knew what he was doing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was the 70s. It's fine. They don't wear bras in space.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, it's nowhere near as bad as Arwin and Aragorn.

[David Sims]

Originally, when Harrison says goodbye, there's a long dialogue scene where he's explaining why he said.

[Griffin Newman]

And Weir is like, no, yeah, out of here.

[David Sims]

Jeffrey Katzenberg is head of production at Paramount at that point, flies out and says, like, why are we cutting this?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And Peter Weir explains the scene to him and is like, it's gonna. And he was like, okay, I think that'll work. You know, so like they successfully kind of bat off whatever sort of over explainy studio noties stuck stuff could have hampered this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I think a lot of that was really like Ford being completely in line with him and using his movie stardom like, as. As a shield.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a great thing that John Seal says where he was worried about working on this movie and Peter Weir was trying to talk him into it and he was like, I've heard all these stories about people and they go to Hollywood and it chews them up and it spits them out. You're fighting the studio all the time. We got this A list movie star. And Peter Weir said, think of it this way. We're making an Australian film. I am committed to preserving this, being an Australian film. We're just going to be working with a lot of people with funny accents.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But it speaks to this. Where Peter Weir was just like, my compass is set. I know what my language is as a filmmaker. I'm not going to fucking bend to these types of notes that will pull this away from being the kind of film I respect.

[David Sims]

Another thing to say, of course, is that that Roger Ebert loved this movie. When it came out, it was a big hit. This movie was a kind of hit that doesn't exist anymore, doesn't get to number one until its fifth weekend. Sort of just chugs along. Roger Ebert was like, masterpiece.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's a spring release and gets like eight Oscar nominations a year.

[David Sims]

Later. Not even spring, February 1985. Pauline Kael hated it. She is in her true grump era at that point, mid to late 80s. But she's basically just like, pardon me with all this farm, you know, like,

[Ben Hosley]

she also bodies blood simple in that review as well.

[Griffin Newman]

In the same review.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

She just like drive by. I mean, casually is like. And those Cohen brothers will never amount to anything.

[Griffin Newman]

But it like fully accomplishes what Harrison Ford wanted it to. He of course, immediately is so in love with the experience of working with Weir that he's like, what do you got next? And he's like, my mosquito. Right.

[David Sims]

I've been trying to make this thing. He's like, great.

[Griffin Newman]

Both of them miss the Oscar. Oscars because they go straight into filming Mosquito Coast. They're like, keep it going.

[David Sims]

I think they were also surprised. I think this was not necessarily seen as an Oscar.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Especially like that far off in advance. And when we bemoan the sort of like cowardice of a list movie stars.

[David Sims]

I hate cowards.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the thing we miss. Right. That like, you look at Chris Evans, I am thrilled that he's finally doing smaller things. Right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Not just that, but is fully admitting, like, I made bad movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's like, what's the point of being Captain America if you're not doing like this? Which Harrison Ford was like, I got Indiana Jones and Han Solo. I got a stretch. Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And now it's become a binary thing of like, either you're doing Jumanji or the Smashing Machine. Like, you are either doing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Obvious tent pole or you're making something like controlled, smaller. I know, but that's get the award. This ends up getting Ford an Oscar nomination. But what he's trying to do is just make grownup entertainment.

[David Sims]

But it's like, why? Why can't we have 21 bridges? Which wasn't that long ago. Which was that interesting thing where Chadwick

[Griffin Newman]

was like, that's the exact cop movie I was going to bring up. And you look at it now and it's like disappointing that Chadwick only has 10 movies and one 21 bridges and that he couldn't find his version of that. That was closer to Witness level. But it's the right instinct. And none of these guys do this.

[David Sims]

They don't.

[Griffin Newman]

It's what's aggravating, even really, like make

[Amanda Dobbins]

genre like things like that. You, you know, a cop movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also. It's on the studios. Yeah, but it's either like massive or tiny.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

And you Want them to be like, no. What I gotta do is find a good script and get a good director, a proper budget and support to make an actual movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But then Presumed Innocent, like is just now literally remade as a TV show.

[Griffin Newman]

All these things instead of movies, Right? I guess these guys do that.

[David Sims]

He's crazy. Presumed Innocent, Mosquito coast, literally. Harrison Ford movies of this era. Apple TV is like, can we stretch it out?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. What's the next one?

[David Sims]

I don't know. Frantic, you know, like, I don't. I mean. All right, so box office, February 8, 1985. Number one at the box office has been number one for I imagine two months now.

[Griffin Newman]

I fucked this up. I spent 15 minutes getting this wrong, I think on the Blood simple episode. So I know it now.

[David Sims]

What is it?

[Griffin Newman]

It's Beverly Hills because. Right, yeah.

[David Sims]

Beverly Hills Cop, which is a runaway sensation from Christmas time.

[Griffin Newman]

Or even one of the highest grossing movies ever. Right.

[David Sims]

And then Witness opening a solid number two to $4.5 million. It's going to make 65 domestic, about 100 plus worldwide.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, 120, I think.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Number three at the box office is another holdover from awards season. I mean, not Beverly Hills Cop wasn't awardsy, but you know, but it was

[Griffin Newman]

a big Oscar player.

[David Sims]

It was a big Oscar player. It won three Academy Awards and was nominated for best Picture. It is a very serious drama about very real bad things.

[Griffin Newman]

The Killing Fields.

[David Sims]

It is the Killing Fields, the laugh Riot of 1984. And not a bad movie. Have you seen, has any.

[Griffin Newman]

Killing Field?

[David Sims]

It's a very sober, okay drama about a real thing. Right. It's not life changing in my opinion, but it's pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

It is funny to. When you watch things from that time, Killing Fields was used as shorthand for like serious, depressing, number one, kind of. As a person who watches too many 80s sitcoms, it's like it. It kind of held the Schindler's List position until. Schindler's List.

[David Sims]

I mean it's literally called the Killing Field.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I was gonna say it's in the title. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I always think of the movie the Milk of Sorrow, which was a. Like a foreign film from a few like that seemed like the number one. Like two to the Milk of Sorrow, please. I hear this is good.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I buy a one way ticket

[David Sims]

to Bummer or So number four at the box office is another award z film from 1984 that came out December that was, you know, nominated for best picture and was like a big deal. But it's the Final film of, like a great legend. And it's like. It's kind of from another era.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it's not Prizzy's honor.

[David Sims]

No,

[Griffin Newman]

it's the final film of great director. It's kind of from a different era. Give me the genre.

[David Sims]

British epic shit.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, is it. It's the David Lean one.

[David Sims]

Yes. Which.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna get the title wrong.

[David Sims]

Go ahead.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not a river. No, it's fucking. It's the Judy Davis one. Why am I blanking on the title?

[David Sims]

The film is called Judy Davis is indeed in it. A passage to Indy King.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, right.

[David Sims]

With alkinness and brown face being normal.

[Griffin Newman]

One of my favorite anecdotes of all time. Judy Davis fighting with David Lean on the set of the film. And she says, why should I listen to you? What have you done? He said, I directed Lawrence of Arabia. And Judy Davis's response is, I mean, what have you done lately, man?

[David Sims]

Points were made.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Points were made. What is. And this. This is also out of Africa year, right?

[David Sims]

Out of Africa will be coming out of Africa.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, okay. But it. It's a different awards year, right?

[David Sims]

Well, we're in the ear. We're in February, so we're getting a lot of leftovers from last year. What are you asking about? I was asking, asking, what if you got.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What is out of Africa adapted from

[David Sims]

a book, a novel by Karen Blixon that I think was about her life.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. So it's not also an E.M. forster adaptation. It just has similar colonial vibes. Okay.

[David Sims]

And I'm seeing here the Wikipedia page for out of Africa was supposedly written by ChatGPT, which is. I've never seen this warning on a Wikipedia before where it says, this contains hallucinated information. But I understand it because that movie is too boring for someone to actually summarize.

[Griffin Newman]

They fall asleep.

[David Sims]

They were like, I don't know, Chat. GPT. Fill in the blanks here. The Wikipedia, I assume they were in Africa and they get out or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. The previous Wikipedia just dissolved into zzzzzz. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number five at the box office is a film. I don't know. It is apparently a comedy film.

[Griffin Newman]

Huh.

[David Sims]

It stars Doug McKean, Chris Nash, Katherine Mary Stewart and Kelly Preston. I recognize one of those names.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that's not helping me a ton. Is this the most movie Mischief?

[David Sims]

There you go.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Look at Mischief. The.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that Kelly Preston does some important work in that film.

[David Sims]

Oh, I see.

[Griffin Newman]

I've never seen it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Is she being. Is she being sexy in that movie? In some ways, she's quite. Yeah, but so I. Yeah, I have no idea.

[Griffin Newman]

I took a guess that it was a Kelly Preston teen comedy and that's the one I knew.

[David Sims]

Interesting. Yeah, I just. I don't know. It's set in the 50s.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's about mischief.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Looks like kind of like an American Graffiti rip offy kind of thing. Like a hot rod.

[Griffin Newman]

Really horny.

[David Sims]

So mischief is number five. Number six is a film called the Falcon and the Snowman.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Which I feel like is. I mostly know is like a box office game title, but I think it's Martin Sheen. No, Sean Penn.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, Sean Pen. It's one of his early. Timothy Hutton. Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's like a spy drama.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number seven, new this week is Heaven Help Us, which is the sort of like. Like Catholic. Like Kevin Dillon, Andrew McCarthy, Patrick Dempsey. Like a bunch of Catholic boys at Catholic school being naughty. Oh, I've never seen it.

[Griffin Newman]

That sounds fun.

[David Sims]

Maybe it is.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe it rules.

[David Sims]

I can tell you. Donald Suan plays a character called Brother Thaddeus.

[Griffin Newman]

Sounds perfect.

[David Sims]

Bet you he's grumpy.

[Griffin Newman]

I assume they better play pranks on that Number eight.

[David Sims]

It's just interesting how I gave you a bunch of really famous movies and now I'm giving you, like, forgotten Dre. Number eight is the Jillian Armstrong movie, Mrs. Soffle. Oh, never with Diane Keaton and Mel Gibson, which is, I feel like a sort of like prestige film that didn't go over as much as she's an interesting director. Number nine is last year's best picture, Amadeus. And number 10 is something called Tuff Turf. T U F F T U R F starring James Spader. I don't what the is this feels

[Griffin Newman]

like a thrash in where this episode's going to come out and we're going to get 80 dms from people being like, tough turf with the single most important movie in my childhood. I can't believe you guys didn't know about it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It looks like that a James Spader teen movie that is to other people. I. Yeah, not at the time, but after the fact. I did the homework.

[David Sims]

It's kind of like, look, I mean, Ben, it's kind of like a Jersey. Oh, no. He relocates to Los Angeles, though. I don't know. It's like a punk kid movie, you know, it's like, okay, kid is punky and sort of on the wrong side of the track.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I don't know. Apparently Tough Turf is a song. Okay, what can I tell you?

[Griffin Newman]

Witness.

[David Sims]

It made $9 million.

[Griffin Newman]

Witness.

[David Sims]

Witness is blood.

[Griffin Newman]

Simple out at the box office at this point in time.

[David Sims]

Oh, fuck. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I can look it up.

[David Sims]

That's one of those things where it's a little hard to find because the numbers doesn't really chart like the tiny release.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, it's not the only place I'm going to say, but I'm going to say it here. We have been hearing that some high up people at IMDb listen to this podcast now.

[David Sims]

Oh, really?

[Griffin Newman]

Our kingdom for Box Office Mojo. Fix it Restored.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I cannot believe what they did to Box Office Mojo.

[David Sims]

It is. We've. Look, we've done this rant before, but it is one of the most straight up flop. Like you. You improved nothing. You broke everything.

[Griffin Newman]

You broke everything. And the numbers, God bless them, they try. It's not the same, but the fucking integration into IMDb and IMDb Pro, it's just. It doesn't fucking work. And if we can do anything with this platform, it is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

If it's a fuck, it's an outrage.

[Griffin Newman]

There was an episode, Amanda. I think it was our Swing Shift episode, Swing Shift, where I asked David to look up a box office stat. And in real time, we start spiraling.

[David Sims]

I'm like, I don't understand.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I. I don't remember the episode, but I do think that this has happened also on the big picture where I looked for something and I was just like, what the are we doing?

[David Sims]

Where are my genres? Where are my keywords? And like, where's my inflation calculator?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, that's like, who is who? Who is the new design for? Who is it helping?

[Griffin Newman]

Nobody.

[David Sims]

It's everything. It was just somebody messed up.

[Griffin Newman]

They like flipped a switch. It was immediately bad and has not improved one iota since then. Yeah, they have all the data.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Please, if you're listening to the show and you have any power, run this conversation up the chain. Especially if you are top of the chain. That's all I'm going to say.

[David Sims]

I have to pee so bad. Okay, you guys, you start wrapping it up.

[Griffin Newman]

Amanda, I do this Big Picture, my favorite podcast.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you, Griffin. Like, check my favorite podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

That's very kind of you to say. This is this nice thing that David does where he goes, he just like

[Amanda Dobbins]

the compliments time, he just leaves. I do also pee. And then I have.

[Griffin Newman]

I have to pee too.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then I have to fly back to Los Angeles tonight, this afternoon.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I. It's. It's this. And I'm out. So.

[Griffin Newman]

Are you a movie watcher on plane?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I probably will be on the way back, I usually save work for the plane of, like, things that I need to prep for. But that makes sense. For whatever reason, I'm. I'm free on this plane. So I don't know what I'll do.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Maybe a little playoff baseball. It's October, everyone.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting. Interesting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

In the current timeline of this podcast

[Griffin Newman]

because I was gonna say I've. I've been on too many flights recently. But this time of year, I'm. I plans. I'm like, oh, let me catch up with the movies I skipped in theater six months ago that I would never watch under any other circumstances.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And there probably are a couple that I should do. But then I'm already thinking about, like, all the. The movies that are, like, in theaters that I skipped screenings for that I do need to go see pretty quickly.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, and that. And even if I'm not that interested, see tranaerys.

[Griffin Newman]

So we must face.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's like, what if I keep this time for myself?

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. Not ced it to the movies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And just watch movies that I want to. But in that case, I usually just watch Moneyball for the 45th millionth time. You know what?

[Griffin Newman]

Another extremely difficult.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Another interesting thing is not. This is not at all interesting. No one cares. So I've been flying some with my children and so it's impossible to actually, like, watch a full movie. But I will pick movies that I've seen a bunch of times and can just have on the screen. Screen with no dialogue because I have. I know what's going on. And so I can check in for two minutes if the child is like, playing with a toy for 30 seconds.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So maybe I'll watch a whole movie with audio.

[Griffin Newman]

This is exciting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

On this flight.

[Griffin Newman]

This is exciting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Very exciting.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you. Everyone should listen to Big Picture.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. Please do.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone should listen to Jam Session.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you so much.

[Griffin Newman]

You're the best dob mob for life.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like we put a couple things on. On the. On the cork board as Amanda episodes locked. If he ever gets them. But we're also. We're always going to be on the lookout for any excuse to get you back here.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm. I would love to come. And I. I'm. I'm going to be back in New York more. Or you guys could come to Los Angeles.

[Griffin Newman]

It's about this guy.

[David Sims]

I don't think so.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's about this guy.

[David Sims]

It's about my three children.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I get it.

[Griffin Newman]

Three children. This is the first time hearing this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you all for listening, please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune in next week for more Mosquito Coast.

[David Sims]

Mosquito coast is next week, baby.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's call it with Sean Fantasy.

[David Sims]

Unless he, you know, like Marty supreme haze just sort of like, crashes out in the streets of New York.

[Griffin Newman]

Unless something crazy happens in the next 24 hours.

[David Sims]

Sean's very reliable. And organized, I would say.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Sort of his vibe. Yeah. Not a chaotic vibe from.

[Griffin Newman]

Just shows up, lined up.

[David Sims]

He shows up and I think he's excited. So he's coming to us from the Criterion Collection. I know that he's doing an early morning Criterion.

[Griffin Newman]

Bags full. 3 bags full.

[David Sims]

1 assumes. One assumes.

[Griffin Newman]

And as always, Hasbro's Indiana Jones adventure series line has a gimmick where each of the figures comes with a piece of an artifact. So I end up having to buy a bunch of figures. I don't want to put the things together. So I just want you to know that you are the proud beneficiary of shirtless.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you, Hasbro. For the first and last time in my life, You want me to ask any more questions about Lord of the Rings, Please.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Any other questions?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure. So what Gollum. What's up? What is he?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I know this. He was a hobbit.

[David Sims]

And the way he was a sort of proto hobbit. Yeah, exactly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And he got corrupted. Yeah.

[David Sims]

He finds.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Either morally or like a file ring so powerful.

[Griffin Newman]

Make you go crazy.

[David Sims]

Griffin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I did too.

[David Sims]

Griff ain't Ron, the ring both extends your leg. What I like about the ring metaphor, right, is like. Like that. It's like he's alive because it keeps you alive. But imagine if you just didn't die. Like, you would become this, like, monster, right? Like, you're supposed to be dead, probably.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So how old is Gollum?

[David Sims]

Great. Actually, okay. Gollum age. Because it's like he's 600 years old.

[Ben Hosley]

Dang.

[David Sims]

Because the idea is that he recovers the ring right when it gets chopped off Sauron's hand. And then he's basically just been living in a cave wearing the ring. Oh, he mostly doesn't wear it. He just touches it.

[Griffin Newman]

We're gonna answer all these questions with Lord of the Rings. Colon, the search for golem.

[Ben Hosley]

Gollum is the weed indica or sativa or a hybrid.

[David Sims]

What would you say?

[Ben Hosley]

Do they. Do they ever shout that out? Is that figured out in, like, any of the.

[David Sims]

I would say pipe weed is supposed to be more of a tobacco, like, than a, you know, a marana.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but have you looked at Gandalf's? Eyes lately.

[David Sims]

You know that meme of Gandalf where

[Ben Hosley]

he's like, gandalf sees like an indica.

[David Sims]

Gandalf elf needs to chill. No, is a wizard.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, of course. Sorry.

[David Sims]

But G. Gandalf is basically like sort of an emissary from the gods politics

[Amanda Dobbins]

in Lord of the Rings, world of wizard and elves.

[David Sims]

You mean like Democrat, Republican, like Red sheep blue.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Related to the politics and the Harry Potter, you know?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Sauron's kind of like a Joe Rogan who's created a manosphere of acolytes. So maybe Saruman is like, I'm acutely

[Amanda Dobbins]

aware of the elves because the elf in. The elf who fights for elves rights in Harry Potter is named Dobby, which, like, people tried to call me from time to time.

[Griffin Newman]

Big fan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. But, you know. So I know that's like a fraught topic with. And that's the only fraught topic in the Harry Potter universe. That's the only example of bad politics.

[David Sims]

Well, no, the thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

The thing in the house. Elves in. In Potter. That's sort of interesting, huh?

[Griffin Newman]

But they're slaves. The whole thing is.

[David Sims]

But, like, what's interesting about it is that Rowling, you know, the author of Harry Potter, does investigate. Like, it's. You know, I like that Hermione is like, this seems fucked up to me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, right.

[David Sims]

Because it seems totally fucked. And everyone else, it's kind of like the wizarding version of, like, homelessness, where everyone else is like, oh, I don't know. That's just like, how it is.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Question.

[David Sims]

Whereas then in Harry Potter, there's the goblins. And they're like, what's up with God? Goblins? It's like, you're kind of greedy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And they're in charge of the bank.

[David Sims]

We don't trust them.

[Griffin Newman]

They don't like working on Friday.

[David Sims]

I mean, in book seven, there's finally a little bit of, like, a goblin gets to speak and is like, we. You. You steal our. Like, we're goblins. And you've, like, stolen, like, goblin, you know, treasures.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, okay.

[David Sims]

But it's a little late, like, for her to be like, oh, yeah, goblins, they have rights. Maybe. I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So elves versus versus Wizards. But in Lord of the Rings, work together. Are they.

[David Sims]

I'm sorry, in which world are we talking?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Lord of the Rings.

[David Sims]

In Lord of the Rings, elves. So like, the elves are like the first, Right? It's like God makes elves, right. And puts them on Middle Earth. And they're beautiful and Immortal and like, eventually man shows up, like, thousands and thousands of years later, and it's like a completely different kind of thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Am I wrong in thinking that the elves are born magical and the wizards are humans who learn magic?

[David Sims]

You are wrong. You are wrong.

[Amanda Dobbins]

In.

[David Sims]

In the Lord of the Rings, there's. The wizards are just istari, which is just like, they're. They're gods. They. They are.

[Griffin Newman]

They are.

[David Sims]

There's only six or seven of them, and they've been put on Middle Earth by God.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is there a.

[David Sims]

To, like, serve as sort of an emissary?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is there a higher and a lower Earth?

[David Sims]

Great question. No. And I don't really know how he sort of came to Middle Earth.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I don't really know why is it called Middle Earth.

[Griffin Newman]

But if I'm Amazon, I'm licking my lips and going, there's story potential here.

[David Sims]

Five seasons, $500 million.

[Griffin Newman]

What'? What's below?

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know. It's a translation of the old English word miding. Guard. I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

By the time this episode comes out, it will probably be settled matter, but the recent story that Amazon is running the numbers on if it is cheaper for them to not continue making the show really good and pay the Tolkien state, like $200 million in penalties to not make it anymore.

[David Sims]

I mean, their continued insistence on making that show and being like, people watch and like this, like, like, is getting increasingly delusional.

[Griffin Newman]

They have sunk so much money.

[David Sims]

I think season three.

[Griffin Newman]

So much.

[Ben Hosley]

Season three.

[David Sims]

Season three is filming and is happening, but I think after that they may have to.

[Griffin Newman]

They. Right. Contractually, they have to do five seasons or pay a lot of money if they bail sooner.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Incredible stuff.

[David Sims]

I've seen every episode, inexplicably.

[Ben Hosley]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithey, research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss and and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.