Unfiltered: Don Lemon & Tim Malone on the Arrest, the Firing, and What's Next

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Bleep! with Ana Navarro
Episode: "Unfiltered: Don Lemon & Tim Malone on the Arrest, the Firing, and What's Next"
Date: May 18, 2026
Host: Ana Navarro
Guests: Don Lemon, Tim Malone

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Bleep! with Ana Navarro" is a raw, unfiltered conversation with Don Lemon and his husband, Tim Malone. Ana and her guests dive deep into Don’s high-profile exit from CNN, his recent arrest, the toll of public scrutiny on their relationship, and their journey navigating the tumultuous world of politics and media as a gay, interracial couple in America. The episode explores themes of resilience, loyalty, media transformation, and the personal cost of being a public figure under a retaliatory political administration.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ana Navarro’s Take on the Week’s Political Chaos

(02:49 – 13:41)

• Economic Disconnection: Ana criticizes Trump and his administration, especially the tone-deaf comments by National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett about credit card debt being a sign of economic health.
• Reflecting Pool Scandal: Trump’s unapproved, lavish spending to repaint the National Mall reflecting pool in "Mar-a-Lago Pool Blue."
• Cronyism: Secretary of Transportation Sean Duffy’s family road trip, sponsored by regulated companies, while essential workers go unpaid.
• Fat Shaming Hypocrisy: Trump issues a fat meme against Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker, while being "obsessed" with him.
• Brett Ratner’s Resurfacing: Ana is appalled that accused sex offender Brett Ratner, with Epstein ties, was included in Trump’s official US delegation to China after producing a Melania Trump documentary.
• Quote – On Trump’s hypocrisy:
  “There is some like, ridiculous hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness when a guy who has no waistline, when a guy whose ass deserves its own zip code, is tweeting out fat jokes.”
  — Ana Navarro (08:20)

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2. Don Lemon on His CNN Firing and Career Evolution

(17:23 – 33:12)

• The Firing:
  • It was abrupt and impersonal: “They didn’t even tell me. My agent told me. It was a shitty exit. They were fucking assholes.” — Don Lemon (19:19)
  • He wasn’t allowed a farewell to audience or colleagues; details of his firing were leaked by Chris Licht.
  • Ana and Don both see Licht’s subsequent firing as “karma.”
    “Karma’s a bitch.” — Ana Navarro (20:14)
• Misogyny Accusations & The Real Reason:
  • Don asserts he wasn’t fired over the Nikki Haley comment, but rather a confrontation with Vivek Ramaswamy about false historical claims regarding the NRA and Black Americans.
  • Critiques CNN’s insistence on platforming election deniers and liars for "balance," which Don rejects:
    “To get someone to come on and say we need to hear the other side of that… that means the other side of Hitler.” — Don Lemon (24:12)
• Aftermath & Identity:
  • Don went into therapy, drawing from past experiences with trauma and resilience. He credits Tim and friends for recognizing his pain:
    “Their silence was deafening. They would say, ‘I’m scared. I’m afraid of losing my job.’” — Don Lemon (27:23)
  • “My identity was never wrapped up in my job... Did I love what I did? Yes. Did I love CNN? Yes. For 16 years I loved it. The last year, I did not love it so much.” — Don Lemon (29:50)
• Pivot to New Media:
  • Don’s independent media venture now boasts over 10 million subscribers.
    “It’s a community of people… they call themselves Lemonades… It's done wonders for creating connection.” — Don Lemon (32:47)
  • He emphasizes the hard work and accountability in self-produced media:
    “If something goes wrong, nobody’s saying, there’s no CNN crisis management. It’s Don Lemon, it’s me.” — Don Lemon (31:06)

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3. The Meaning of Partnership: Don & Tim’s Marriage

(37:24 – 59:56)

• Support Through Crisis:
  • Tim and Don opened up about weathering Don’s firing and arrest together.
  • “We take our vows very seriously. That’s what you do when you’re in love and especially when you’re married.” — Don Lemon (37:58)
  • Tim’s role as a backbone, managing logistics and family during crises:
    "I wanted her [Don’s mom] to hear from us, the two people in the world before it broke, him and my mom. And those are the people I love the most in the world.” — Tim Malone (56:04)
• The Arrest:
  • Don recounts the shock of being arrested in a Beverly Hills hotel for covering the Grammys:
    “It was jarring. It wasn’t a pleasant experience… but I became a journalist. The moment they start trying to dictate to you who you can cover... this whole experiment is over.” — Don Lemon (42:14 & 44:26)
  • Reflections on privilege, race, and due process:
    “A lot of things come to mind. Slavery, images... But I knew I was going to be okay. I have agency. I thought about the people who you mentioned... who can’t call the best civil rights attorney in the country.” — Don Lemon (44:26)
  • Tim managed the news with Don’s mom and activated their legal/PR team.
• Impact on Their Relationship and Public Perception:
  • Their public displays of support—walking hand in hand into the courtroom—have become symbols of resilience, interracial love, and gay marriage.
    “Everybody wants a Tim.” — Ana Navarro (59:17)
  • “If anybody has any doubts about gay people being married, if it’s different… No, I think we're maybe more committed than your average straight couple.” — Don Lemon (58:14)
  • Ana jokes about Don being her "Jack" to her "Karen" (Will & Grace reference), underscoring the depth of their friendship.

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4. Political Stakes: Voting Rights, Representation, and Black America

(59:53 – 64:40)

• Voting Rights Attacks:
  • Don expresses outrage at the Supreme Court and Republican targeting of Black electoral power via redistricting:
    “How could anybody vote to get rid of the provision, the Civil Rights Act that helped him [Clarence Thomas] to be on that damn court?” — Don Lemon (62:12)
  • Contrasts those who think “no one’s getting disenfranchised” with the lived experience of unrepresentation:
    “How would they feel if all of their representatives were Black, or Latino, or Democrats?” — Don Lemon (61:16)
• The Broader Message:
  • Discussion on American history, the perils of erasing voting rights, and the ongoing fight for equity.
  • Ana makes clear: It’s not just about Black or Latino voters, it’s about deliberate political strategy to dilute the power of communities of color.
  • “It's about black people.... And that if you somehow dilute the black vote, then that... yeah, of course this is cynically targeted against black people because it's happening in the South.” — Ana Navarro (64:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On CNN Firing:
  "They didn’t even tell me. My agent told me. It was a shitty exit. They were fucking assholes." — Don Lemon (19:19)

• On Public Accountability:
  “Their silence was deafening. They would say, ‘I’m scared. I’m afraid of losing my job.’” — Don Lemon (27:23)

• On Moving Forward:
  “My identity was never wrapped up in my job… The last year, I did not love it so much.” — Don Lemon (29:50)

• On Independent Media:
  “If something goes wrong, nobody’s saying, there’s no CNN crisis management. It’s Don Lemon, it’s me.” — Don Lemon (31:06)

• On Being Arrested:
  “It was jarring. It wasn’t a pleasant experience. But the entire time I kept talking to myself and saying, this is gonna be okay.” — Don Lemon (42:14)

• On Love and Partnership:
  “If anybody has any doubts about gay people being married, if it’s different… No, I think we’re maybe more committed than your average straight couple.” — Don Lemon (58:14)

• On Voting Rights:
  “How could anybody vote to get rid of the provision, the Civil Rights Act that helped him to be on that damn court that he’s so privileged to serve on?” — Don Lemon (62:12)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Ana’s political commentary/opening monologue: 02:49 – 13:41
• CNN firing and its aftermath: 17:23 – 33:12
• Creation of Lemon Nation & Don’s new venture: 30:00 – 33:12
• Life as a couple + Don’s arrest: 37:24 – 59:56
• Voting rights, SCOTUS, and black representation: 59:53 – 64:40
• Lighthearted closing, “Karen and Jack” banter: 65:03 – 66:41

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Tone & Style

Conversational, direct, and deeply personal—Ana, Don, and Tim share a mix of biting wit, unfiltered honesty, and touching vulnerability. Their camaraderie and genuine affection are tangible, as is their mutual commitment to truth, justice, and each other. Through laughter and tears, the episode ultimately delivers a message of courage, community, and hope in turbulent times.

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For Listeners

If you’ve not listened, this episode delivers an inside look at public humiliation, resilience, and reinvention, balanced with humor and heartfelt support. It’s also a window into how politics, race, and identity continue to collide with the personal and professional lives of those in America’s spotlight.

Transcript

[Ana Navarro]

Hola sui me brother Nisa Pathfinder esta par los quenos conforman cono vasico de vajo del capo cuenta conun podor vessels. El veses mas premiado por words en los ultimos treinta anos eso espotencia con

[Don Lemon]

probada queva adon de quier a sir

[Ana Navarro]

con confianza y con capacidad de hasta ocho pasajeros contecnologia premium estadi senada parahira

[Don Lemon]

la distancia

[Angel/Diego/Jason (Cars.com ad group)]

La Pathfinder tejeva conto de

[Ana Navarro]

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[Chiquis Rivera]

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[Yo Castro]

1021 podcast is brought to you by T Mobile. Yo, Castro here. I've been around soccer my whole life. From playing in Chicago to streaming FIFA to millions. It's always been about the love of the game, and chat knows we don't miss a moment. That's exactly why I'm on America's best network. Honestly, you won't believe everything I get as a T Mobile member. Weekly perks with T Mobile Tuesdays plus streaming benefits like Hulu and Netflix. Switching is easy, like 15 minutes per line with the Tealife app. If you want more value, more perks and the best network, T Mobile is where it's at. Visit t mobile.com qualifying plan required. T Mobile has the best mobile network in the US based on an analysis by OOKLA of Speed Test Intelligence Data for the second half of 2025.

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[Ana Navarro]

Hey everyone. Welcome to BLEEP with Ana Navarro. I'm Ana Navarro. Today I'm very excited to have Don Lemon on. He's my friend, my former colleague and his husband Tim Malone joins us as well. I can't wait to talk about Don's new media venture. He is a media mogul now. His arrest in January and also his relationship with Tim and how that's been affected. But first, let's talk about some of the stupid, dumb, tone deaf shit Trump and his administration have done in the last week. So one of the things that happened while we were sleeping, while we were looking away is National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett said during an interview that spending on credit cards was an indication that consumers had more money in their pockets. Yes, the senior economic adviser of the White House thinks that the more debt Americans have on credit cards, the better it means the economy is. In fact, most experts agree it is more like people can't afford skyrocketing gas prices, health care costs and groceries. And that is why they are resorting to putting more and more debt on their credit cards. Americans currently owe 1.25 trillion with a T on their credit cards. Last quarter it was an all time high. Delinquent credit card payment rose to 4.8%, the highest since 2017. People are not optimistic about the economy. I don't know what that economic advisor is smoking. If he thinks people are optimistic. He's obviously hanging out with the billionaires that loiter at the White House and not with the real Americans who are having a hard time making ends meet and staying afloat. I also want to talk about some of the, I mean, it just jarringly, jarringly tone deaf things that Trump is doing while people are having such a hard time keeping their families fed. He's doing things like spending. It's now close to reportedly $15 million on it was supposed to be fixing leaks in the reflecting pool. He did it without asking anybody anything. He just did it. He's painting it. I guess you would call it Mar a Lago Pool Blue. This is a historical site. We all remember the images of watching MLK give his speech there, his I have a Dream speech there. This is part of American history. It is part of our patrimony. And here he is painting it, this ridiculous Mar A Lago blue without having A with without having taken it out to a bid. And what started with a 1.8 million price tag is now at close to 15 million price tag. And of course, he continues carrying around a mock up of his ballroom, which started at a $200 million price tag, then went up to 400 million. And now with the billion that the Senate is asking for, it would be up to $1.5 billion price tag. And then again, there is the $300,000 giant 15, 20 foot gold leaf statue of Trump himself. They refer to it as Don Colossus. That's been put up at the Trump National Doral Golf Course and that is paid by the cryptocurrency industry. They're the ones, of course, cryptocurrency industry, which is regulated by the Trump administration and the government, and they are shelling out money for a giant statue of Trump. And let's also not forget Sean Duffy, former reality star Sean Duffy, currently Secretary of Transportation. During the last seven months, he has been taking time off for a road trip with his family, nine children and his wife, paid for by companies like Boeing and United Airlines, by private companies who are regulated and have business in front of the Department of Transportation. And they have been giving donations so that the Secretary of Transportation can take some time off, take some days off and go around the country with his family, filming a YouTube TV program that he hopes will serve to encourage people, Americans to celebrate the 250th anniversary of America by taking their families on road trips across our beautiful country. That would be great if gas wasn't six fucking dollars a gallon. That would be great if at the same time he's been filming this, TSA agents weren't going months without getting paid and having to rely on food banks to feed their family. But we're not done yet. What else did Trump do? Trump put out a fat meme against attacking Governor J.B. pritzker of Illinois. Now, fat shaming and fat memes are a pretty infantile, stupid thing to do for anyone, but particularly if the person putting it out is Donald Trump. And it's not just because he is President of the United States. And so it is unseemly, unprecedented behavior for him to be tweeting out fat memes of J.B. pritzker in the middle of the night, but also because Trump is fat. So there is some like, ridiculous hypocrisy and lack of self awareness when a guy who has no waistline, when a guy whose ass deserves its own zip code is tweeting out fat jokes. And fat memes against JB Pritzker, who, I may add, I saw not too long ago. And it's looking pretty damn good. He has lost some weight and. Yeah, but Trump seems to be pretty obsessed with J.B. pritzker. All right, but before that, I want to end with something that is not only stupid shit Trump has done, it's appalling, disgusting, gross shit Trump has done. So let me tell you about this last thing, because I feel like it's been grossly underreported. I can't believe this is happening. And this is not headline news everywhere. So, as we know, Trump is in. Was in China last week. Bilateral meetings with President Xi of China. And he took a huge delegation of American leaders and American business people within. People like Elon Musk and Tim Cook, and the chairman of Goldman's and the chairman of. Of, you know, big companies, the Nvidia, things like that. But also as part of the US Official delegation to China was Brett Ratner. Okay, so who is Brett Ratner? Go Google him. Brett Ratner is a producer and director who was basically banished from Hollywood in 2017 when multiple sexual assault and harassment accusations and allegations came out against him. Big names in Hollywood, people like Olivia Munn, like Anna Paquin, made allegations about his behavior and his sexually predatory acts. Things like masturbating in front of actresses in their trailer. And so Brett Ratner had been basically under a rock. And the other thing that's been revealed in the last few months about Brett. Brett Ratner is that he is heavily featured in the release of the Epstein files. There's pictures of him with Epstein and girls. There's emails. There's all sorts of indications that he had some sort of association with Epstein. He denies all of this. He denies the allegations. He has not been convicted of criminal acts. But there were some very famous people who were willing to put their name behind the allegations and accusations against Brett Ratner. And the photos don't lie. There are photos of him with Epstein and girls. And, yeah, this is the guy. So why is he being rehabbed and included in this delegation? Well, because after being in no man's land in Hollywood, after big studios basically said they no longer wanted to work with him, Brett Ratner is the guy who was the producer and director of the Melania documentary that Amazon paid an alleged 30, 40 million dollars for. And so he has come back and is part of the circle now with Trump. He has been. Somebody went and dug him up from under the rock, and he was part of this delegation, US Delegation traveling on Air Force One, which costs something like $250,000 per hour to operate of taxpayer dime. And I guess it's not only one Epstein associate and alleged sexual predator, but actually two. At least two that we know of traveling on Air Force One in that US Delegation to China. And coming up next, I'm really happy I will be talking to Don Lemon and Tim Malone. They get truthful, they get frank, they get raw, emotional and we have some conversations about the good old days and the bad old days and the things that they are going through right now as a couple and as Americans. Stay tuned.

[Chiquis Rivera]

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[Yo Castro]

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[Ana Navarro]

I am beyond myself today that I have my two really good friends of so many years with me. Don Lemon and Tim Malone. Kevin Costner, Tim Malone. So toast to being with you all.

[Don Lemon]

All right, cheers. Hey. Hey, girlfriend.

[Ana Navarro]

How you doing? Hi. Hi, boo.

[Don Lemon]

I miss you.

[Ana Navarro]

Hi, Jack.

[Don Lemon]

Can I say bad words on here? Because it's called bleep.

[Ana Navarro]

You can say anything you want here in any language you want.

[Don Lemon]

I miss your fucking Latina ass. I don't get to see you enough.

[Ana Navarro]

You know what? We don't. And we need to make an effort to do that. But damn, you are working so hard. I don't even know how you have

[Don Lemon]

time for friends, honestly. Do I? No.

[Ana Navarro]

Do you have time for Tim?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, I mean, he works.

[Ana Navarro]

That's how that convincing.

[Don Lemon]

Luckily my studio's in the house and unluckily for him, but. And the dogs, because they want to be dogs. And I'm like, stop. Yeah, but.

[Ana Navarro]

And your dogs are not well behaved. Like my dog. I still have a scar for where one of your dogs bit my finger on the boat. Yes, Tim remembers. Yes. I should have sued you. If I'd known you were going to get this much money.

[Yo Castro]

Stop it.

[Ana Navarro]

I would have sued you for my. Don't mind. All right, but let's start though, because it's been. We were talking about this before you got here and I had to look it up because I couldn't believe the date you got fired From CNN After 17 years working there in 2023. It feels like three lifetimes ago. I cannot believe everything you have done, you both have done. I can't believe everything. Everything that has happened to you all in that short period. And so let's start with 2023.

[Don Lemon]

Yes.

[Ana Navarro]

I mean, this was CNN, was your home, this was your work, family. This was. You guys were doing this every day. I mean, this. You were Don Lemon of cnn. And all of a sudden you lose it from one moment to the next.

[Don Lemon]

So I didn't even get a chance to say goodbye. They didn't even tell me. My agent told me it was a shitty exit. They were fucking assholes.

[Ana Navarro]

But you know, though, I gotta tell you something. But you know, okay. You know, sometimes things, you know, you always hear this, things happen for a reason.

[Don Lemon]

I believe that part, but I'm just talking about. Then they were.

[Tim Malone]

They.

[Don Lemon]

Look, I don't care if you are. If you're in a marriage or a relationship and someone just dumps you without any explanation. And then you don't get to say, well, what happened? Or say goodbye to your friends or your in laws. That's what I mean. I didn't get to say goodbye to my audience. I didn't get to say goodbye to my friends. I got a call after I had come to work. It was just really bad. And after being there for. It was just. They were terrible. I'm just gonna be honest now.

[Ana Navarro]

That was under Chris Licht, right? He president of cnn. Chris Licht.

[Don Lemon]

I'm giving you more than anyone who

[Ana Navarro]

also got fired unceremoniously. Just a few. I mean, he was.

[Don Lemon]

Karma's a bitch.

[Ana Navarro]

I'll just say karma's a bitch. So the guy that fired you without letting you so much as say goodbye went on a walk around the park with the head of the studio. With the head of. And got fired.

[Don Lemon]

And then insult to injury, though, because you remember Tim, he said, oh, we offered Don A meeting to. I'm like, no, you didn't. And then he ended up lying to the New York Times about what he did on the way out. And then I got word confirmation that he's the one who leaked it to the New York Times.

[Ana Navarro]

Okay.

[Don Lemon]

And that I was fired before. They'll say, I'm not fired. We're exercising a clause in your contract. But he. That according to my sources, very inside sources, he was the one who leaked it to everyone before they even told me.

[Ana Navarro]

Well, listen, there is no love lost at CNN for Chris Licht. He did so much damage in one year. But let me tell you, someone put

[Don Lemon]

him in that position, though, where.

[Ana Navarro]

Chris. Don Lemon today has over 10 million subscribers. Where exactly is Chris? Look, Don, Meta don me. Cha cha, cha, cha. You know what he is?

[Don Lemon]

I don't know. I don't think about him at all. And look, if I ran into him in the street or whatever, I've seen him. This was years ago. We saw him at a couple of things, but this is probably the first time I've talked about him in years.

[Ana Navarro]

How do you feel about it?

[Angel/Diego/Jason (Cars.com ad group)]

Correct.

[Ana Navarro]

Oh, Tim would actually use him. Because you know what? I remember reading once that when about Jackie Kennedy, that Jack Kennedy would sometimes have fights with other senators, and then she wouldn't speak to them and they'd made up and Jack Kennedy was, you know, saying hello to them.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, that's him.

[Ana Navarro]

That's him.

[Tim Malone]

I saw my grudges three weeks ago. I mean, it's been three years. I saw someone three weeks ago who we know was part of the leaking, and I just think the way they went about it was nasty. So those people to us are. Well, to me at least.

[Ana Navarro]

But you. Okay, so though it. All of a sudden. So you. Okay, so you got fired and it was for something that it even hurts me to say, because you got accused of misogyny. And anybody that knows Don Lemon knows we can accuse you of a lot of shit. Misogyny is not one. Literally, your best friends in the world are strong women who beat you constantly and tell you things and push back on you. I remember calling. So. So you made a statement about Nikki Haley. That's another one. I don't remember.

[Don Lemon]

But that wasn't why. That wasn't why I was fired.

[Ana Navarro]

Why were you fired?

[Don Lemon]

That wasn't why I was fired. I mean, I made a statement about Nikki Haley in which I said. And I'm sure you. We've run it on the View. I don't want to keep going over this Where I said, I'm not saying that I believe this. I said it during that interview, but I didn't make it clear that that's what I believe, that's how society treats women. And so they used that as a predicate to, I guess in whatever they were going to use to get rid of me. But it was Vivek. Wamaswamy. Ah, Vivek came on the morning show. I had no idea who he was. I didn't know him. It wasn't my interview, I didn't research, I didn't study. And it was Papi's interview and he came on and you know, one of the bosses who was our boss used to send around notes of people he wanted to put on CNN and stories he wanted covered and he wanted to make room for Republicans and election deniers and all kinds of liars and all that and insurrection.

[Ana Navarro]

Well, they're part of the political, I mean they, you know, they're part of the, I mean it's very hard not to platform them because they're now in the White House.

[Don Lemon]

Don't agree on that. No, not very hard not to platform them. I watch Ms. Now now, they don't platform them. They talk about them, they discuss the news in a fair way and if they do something right, they will give them an opportunity and. But that platform is not a right. You don't have a right to go on there. It is a privilege to go on. If you have the privilege to go on to talk directly to the American people, you should at least respect the American people and the platform enough to tell the truth. Everyone knows that the election was not stolen. It's a lie. Everyone knows it was an insurrection. So to get someone to come on and say we need to hear the other side of that.

[Ana Navarro]

I don't need to hear the Don,

[Don Lemon]

that means the other side of Hitler. I don't need to.

[Ana Navarro]

No, you don't need to, but. Okay, that means you wouldn't be able to book the President of the United States or the Vice President of the United States or the Attorney General of the United States or anybody. Well, wait, we have no attorney General currently.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, you can book those people as long as you check them.

[Ana Navarro]

They don't even check them out. That we agree on.

[Don Lemon]

And then you don't have to necessarily do them live because you know they're going to lie. If you have a chance to look at the footage and put it into context and fact check and tell the viewers what's right. I, I'm 100%, I agree with that. But to give them a live platform, as they used to do with Donald Trump, with just the rallies, and he would spot off the lies, and people believe it. No, we have a jerk.

[Ana Navarro]

But that's because nobody thought he was gonna get elected president.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, okay. But anyway.

[Ana Navarro]

And that was, by the way, that was our friend Jeff Sucher, who was then the president of cnn, who we both love.

[Don Lemon]

He said it was a mistake.

[Ana Navarro]

Okay, but he's. Yeah, but he owns it. And he said it. But. But at the time he did it, he also is the one that gave Donald Trump the Apprentice. I'm still not over that.

[Don Lemon]

Real quick, just to put a pin in. Was Vivek Gomaswamy. And he came on and said that black people got their freedom because of the nra. The NRA fought for them during the Civil War. Now the NRA wasn't even around during the fucking Civil War. And so I was like, okay, mister. And we had this arguing there. And then I think that was on a Friday or Thursday. Or Friday a Thursday. And then the next day, whatever. And then Tim went away on a business trip. And that weekend, they rushed to put together a press conference with Gayle King and Charles Barkley to announce a show that they weren't even ready for because they were getting rid of the.

[Ana Navarro]

Oh, my God, I forgot about that show.

[Don Lemon]

They didn't want to be called racist. So they put together. They hastily put together this press conference and went to work on Monday. And when I got home from work, that's when they let me go. And someone told me they had already taken my name off the door before I got to work on Monday.

[Ana Navarro]

So let's talk about, though, the aftermath of that.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Ana Navarro]

So, you know, I read this quote from Colin Powell when he wrote his book, and he said, sometimes if you let your identity get so intertwined with your position, if you lose your position, you lose your identity. And I feel that, at least at the beginning, you were reeling from that. I mean, you went into a dark place. Yeah, you did. And you may not know it, but I'll tell you who did know it. Tim knew it. Cause Tim was calling your best friends and saying, I'm worried about Dawn. What can we do? Can you help? Can you do. Tim saw what was happening to you. So what did you see that worried you? Because I remember you and I having these conversations.

[Tim Malone]

I think just. I mean, 17 years. It's a lot to unravel. And I think when you. When it happened so publicly, it was just a lot to take On. And then when it happened so negatively, so publicly, you know, and we knew the stories were false. That were. That whole winter, you know, we knew they were false. We knew they were being leaked by the company. I think it was a lot to take on. But he took. What'd you take off? A couple months?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. But I think that. I don't know if you thought I didn't go into a dark place, and. Because I very much believe in therapy, I think why Tim was saying that, and I don't want to speak for you, is that so many people were quiet, and their silence was deafening. And so I think he was asking people, why aren't you standing up for your friend and the person? You know? And when we would ask people that, they would say, I'm scared. I'm afraid of losing my job. Or very explicitly, I've been told that I cannot say anything, even to the press. So I think that's maybe what he went. What he did. Was it a rough transition? Wasn't so rough, but it was. I knew enough about therapy to do therapy and to do antidepressants and whatever I needed to.

[Ana Navarro]

How did that happen? Because, I mean, it's. Listen. And the Latino community is a huge taboo.

[Don Lemon]

I love me too.

[Ana Navarro]

So how did you know so much about therapy? How did you.

[Don Lemon]

Because, look, I.

[Ana Navarro]

You've been hanging out with white people that long?

[Don Lemon]

Well, yeah, because of a lot of trauma. A lot of racial trauma, dealing with it. The first time I went. Went to therapy, I was racially profiled at a record store in Philadelphia. And it shook me to my core, because I asked him to call the police. And when the police showed up, they went to the security guard who had accused me of stealing. And I had a receipt in my pocket, but I was like, I don't have to show your receipt. I'm not stealing. What's wrong with you? And then the cops came, and he started pushing me, and I thought I didn't know what was gonna happen. Then someone. I forget someone called the cops. No, I called the cops on my cell phone. I called the cops, and the cops got there, and they went over to him. I said. And I got out of the car because the security guard followed me to my car. I got out of the car to tell the cop that, hey, this guy is harassing me about stealing. And I didn't. And the guy was like, get back in the car. This gentleman called police. And I said, no, I called police.

[Ana Navarro]

Oh, wow.

[Don Lemon]

And he looked at me and said, whatever. And then the cop came and he said, do you know who that is? And the guy said, no. And he said, I think you should start looking for another job. But that trauma pushed me into therapy for the first time.

[Ana Navarro]

So this was.

[Don Lemon]

And I did.

[Ana Navarro]

What year was this?

[Don Lemon]

Zoloft then. And immediately I started feeling better. This was like 2000-1999-2000-2001, somewhere around there, just before I left to go to NBC. NBC News. And so, yeah. And then after that, I've had a therapist ever since. And so I knew that this was a big transition, that people are, especially males, men, their identity is wrapped up in their jobs. But my identity was never wrapped up in my job. And did I love what I did? Yes. Did I love CNN? Yes. For 16 years I loved it. The last year, I did not love it so much. And I'm sure you probably felt, well,

[Ana Navarro]

honey, the morning show was not for you.

[Don Lemon]

No, not at all.

[Ana Navarro]

I mean, there is nothing about you that screams morning show to me.

[Don Lemon]

But I was like, what am I gonna do with my day?

[Ana Navarro]

Do you miss being on network tv?

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Ana Navarro]

Do you miss being on cable?

[Don Lemon]

No, I miss the people. I don't miss being on cable. I don't miss the. How do I say this? The sort of fake. It's a little fake sometimes.

[Ana Navarro]

You know what? So, okay, so how do we get to where we are now with 10 million plus subscribers? How do. Oh, there was. I mean, how does. How does that happen?

[Don Lemon]

You tell me. How did it happen? Tim?

[Tim Malone]

How did it happen?

[Don Lemon]

I worked really hard and Tim was very supportive. Like, I work hard. This morning I was up writing the. Well, editing the newsletter for my show. At three in the morning. Cause it goes out.

[Ana Navarro]

So you do it all yourself.

[Don Lemon]

I don't do it all myself. I do a lot myself. And I try to look at everything that goes out because it's a representative, it represents me.

[Ana Navarro]

People think this podcast shit and this is easy. It is so much work.

[Don Lemon]

It's not easy.

[Ana Navarro]

I mean, like, I don't know that I would be doing it if I know how much work it was before this. Right. But I mean, you are, because it's all on you. It's all on your shoulders.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, but I love it. It's all on my shoulders.

[Ana Navarro]

Like, if something goes wrong, nobody's saying, there's no CNN crisis management. It's Don Lemon, it's me.

[Don Lemon]

There's no CNN attorneys, there's no cnn.

[Ana Navarro]

CNN standards, there's no CNN lobbyists, There's no cnn.

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Ana Navarro]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

There's even no. There's no CNN check.

[Yo Castro]

Right, Right.

[Don Lemon]

It's just me. And if I'm not there, if I'm not on the air, the sponsors aren't paying for the advertising because they want me to read the advertising.

[Ana Navarro]

But you got. Okay, so you got paid off, paid out by CNN after you got fired, which was a nice.

[Don Lemon]

I didn't get paid out. Payout. I didn't get paid out.

[Ana Navarro]

They didn't pay the rest of your contract.

[Don Lemon]

They paid the rest of my contract. But as I'm still working for cnn, I'm still getting paid, but I didn't get, like a huge payout. So don't believe everything you read. Now, I did have a nice salary, and it was very close to the number that's out in the press, but not exactly.

[Ana Navarro]

Okay, but you could have gone and put your. If you had wanted to, you could have.

[Don Lemon]

Wouldn't have to work a day in my life.

[Ana Navarro]

Work a day in your life. So why. Why are you.

[Don Lemon]

Because I love. Why wouldn't I. Because I love what I do. And look, especially during the election in 2024. And that's when I started. I started in 24. I took a year off. Almost a year. Exactly. Because I wanted to figure out what I was going to do. And, you know, it just kind of. And I said, I need a voice for the election. And I wanted to have a voice for the election. I thought it was important, especially with democracy on the line. And once I started doing that, it started taking off. And I said, well, why would I give this up? Because it's not because of me. But, Anna, if you. I don't know if you're a part of the Lemon Nation or you're a lemonhead. It's a community of people who met through my channel or through my show.

[Ana Navarro]

Oh, I'm a part of Lemon Nation.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And now they take trips together. It's like it's a diverse group of people who are meeting. And I'm not talking about, like five people. I'm talking about, like 30, 40 people who meet. And not elimination is millions of people. But the people who get together and those. First it was 10, and then it was 30, and now it's 50. And then they get together and they have vacations and they call themselves lemonades.

[Ana Navarro]

Oh, my God. There's going to be a Lemon Nation cruise, isn't there?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, there's gonna be lemons.

[Ana Navarro]

And if we can somehow make it, have it be a Lemon Nation and gay cruise, that's going to be.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, he's gotta be be surprised.

[Chiquis Rivera]

Imagine never having to buy gas again. Sounds like a dream. Except it's real. That's everyday life with an electric vehicle. No long lines at the pump. Just plug in at home and go. EVs are as easy to charge as your phone and built for real life. Most Americans drive about 40 miles a day, and most EVs go 200 to 400 miles on a single charge. And with fewer moving parts, you've got fewer repairs and style. There are hundreds of new and used EV models to choose from. An EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. Learn [e-mail] Hola. Que tal? This is Chiquis from Chiquis and Chillas Aves. I take care of mi gente, my friends. Mi familia, hasta mi glam squad. Whether I'm on tour or just at home, staying connected really matters to me. Even across borders. Siem franco. And if I find something good, I share it. Like T Mobile. You won't believe everything you get as a T Mobile member. Not only do I get America's best network, but I also get weekly perks with T Mobile Tuesdays, streaming benefits like Hulu and Netflix. Y mucho mas. I mean, Tuesday was already elite for Los Tacos, but now T Mobile Tuesdays too. Who needs weekends? All my family's favorite things. Texting, calling, streaming, sharing the latest binge with the crew. You know, las cosas mas importantes de la vida. Being a T Mobile member means we're doing life right. Todo fluye mejor. And switching takes 15 minutes per line with the Tealife app. Seen Broncas I share Solar Mejore. If you want more benefits, more perks and more connections, this is just the beginning. Switch to T Mobile online, in store or on the app. Visit T Mobile qualifying lines and plan required. T Mobile Best mobile network in the U.S. according to Ookla Speed Test Based on analysis by OOKLA of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 Ookla trademarks used under license and reprinted with permission.

[Eva Longoria]

This is Eva Longoria from Hungry for History with Eva Longoria and Maite Gomez Rejon. Planned Parenthood health centers save lives. But lawmakers are trying to block patients from using Medicaid at Planned Parenthood health centers for one simple reason. They want to shut Planned Parenthood down. Yet across the country, Planned Parenthood health centers are still there, opening their doors to care for the communities. That's because Planned Parenthood believes controlling your own body is the most basic freedom, and they will never stop fighting for it. One in four people in the US have been to a Planned Parenthood health center for high quality health care like birth control, cancer screenings, STI testing and treatment, and more. Planned Parenthood is still the country's largest sex educator and a trusted source of unbiased sexual and reproductive health information for millions of people. Planned Parenthood will never stop working to get people the information they need, and they will never stop fighting so that every person is free to make their own decisions about their bodies and futures. At Planned Parenthood Care continues. Text update to 22422 to learn more.

[Angel/Diego/Jason (Cars.com ad group)]

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[Ana Navarro]

where to next? Okay, but. Okay, so Tim, so you. Oh my God. He gets fired, he goes through this, he starts his new job and then his ass gets arrested and you're like asleep in bed.

[Tim Malone]

I am.

[Ana Navarro]

Okay. And so I feel like you guys have gone through a lot as a couple in the last three years.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, yeah, yeah. But even more so than the last. Look, this isn't the first time that one of us has done this has been a lot.

[Ana Navarro]

The last three years have been a

[Don Lemon]

lot that one of us has been uncertain about, you know, about career or whatever. Tim changed careers twice and he's very successful now. I mean, he's probably doing better than I am. I have no. It's not my business. But, you know, I supported him through that and he supported me through this. And that's what you do when you're in love and especially when you're married. We take our vows very seriously, so. But anyway, she asked you the question. Sorry.

[Ana Navarro]

I was gonna say, what was it? What's.

[Tim Malone]

I was asleep yeah. So we got to la.

[Ana Navarro]

So we're talking about.

[Don Lemon]

You said we've gone through a lot.

[Ana Navarro]

No, no, but we're talking about Minneapolis, which is insane. And I know there's not only so much you can say. I know this is still an ongoing case, which is insane.

[Don Lemon]

I'll give you. I'll Cheers.

[Ana Navarro]

I mean, this shit is crazy. This shit is crazy. This shit is crazy. But I almost think that it's like with Jimmy Kimmel, like, he did you a favor. He doesn't realize that when he comes after somebody, they do. He does them a favor. Because it's like you gird your loins and you go out there, and then the world is supporting you, the normal world is supporting you, and you feel like it's this badge of honor anytime you get attacked by the President of the United States, who is certifiably insane. Right? Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

You were there with me, side by side, during the first administration, when they sent pipe bombs to the office, when I got death threats, when. When he would, you know, talk. Call me the dumbest man on television.

[Ana Navarro]

I remember that was Cesar Siok from Florida. I talked about that because I was on his hit list, too. Yeah, so was Donna. Brazil. So. Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

Do you still get the letters from the. Not the Justice Department, but I forget who they're from, saying, this person has been moved to this facility or they're getting. No, they're up for parole. Oh, I get them. I still get them from back in those times. So this is okay.

[Ana Navarro]

But you know what, though?

[Don Lemon]

He didn't come after me.

[Ana Navarro]

Okay, but let me just say this to you. When I was. When Trump was in office the first term, I didn't realize the level of pressure we were all under until he no longer was in office. And I said to Angela Bassett yesterday, I saw her in the upfronts, I said, like, my life should be called waiting to exhale. And I exhaled in those four years that Joe Biden was president, because I wasn't getting bomb threats, because I wasn't getting threatened on social media, because I didn't think that the. You know, that I was gonna get arrested, that somebody was gonna pull up in my house, that I was gonna get audited, or whatever they can do to you, but that's over. So, like, anytime that Trump tweets against you or gets you arrested, what does that mean in life? I mean. Because, I mean, my experience has been it's like the gates of hell open up and all these little demons walk through it.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, yeah, Well, I get. I Have a lot of demons walking through it and a lot of criticism and a lot of. Look, we have a section in our company email for threats and negative things that may be borderline.

[Ana Navarro]

You have a company email? How many people work for Lemon Nation?

[Don Lemon]

Well, it's four now.

[Tim Malone]

Five. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5.

[Don Lemon]

And then we're getting two interns this summer.

[Tim Malone]

Three.

[Don Lemon]

Three interns.

[Ana Navarro]

I might need you to give my niece an internship.

[Don Lemon]

You wouldn't be the only one calling for that. But I believe in giving folks opportunity. And look, you can obviously they get student credits or they'll get a stipend and some of depending on they'll get a salary.

[Ana Navarro]

I hate that you showed up late as usual, because we have so much to talk about.

[Don Lemon]

We can keep talking, Tim.

[Ana Navarro]

How was that for you, though? When you find out. And you know, it struck me as you were talking about this, it struck me when you said that you called the police when somebody thought that you were stealing from a record store, when you got racially profiled. And so you lived to be 60 years old as a black man in this country without so much of a stain of anything. Right? And I mean, you have been a good person. You have done everything on the right way. And then at the age of 60, almost, you get fucking arrested when you are like a famous person, a celebrity. I mean, in covering the Grammys, out of all things. So, I mean, okay, so how was that to get arrested?

[Don Lemon]

It was jarring. It wasn't a pleasant experience. But the entire time I kept talking to myself and saying, this is gonna be okay. The moment that it happened, it was very jarring and frightening. But then as once I realized that people were gonna know where I was, I was okay with it. I became a journalist.

[Ana Navarro]

And the only reason they knew where you were is because Tim somehow knew where you were.

[Don Lemon]

So I didn't wear it today. I had this bracelet on that Tim actually bought me for my wedding present. It's a beautiful black diamond bracelet.

[Ana Navarro]

I've seen it.

[Don Lemon]

It's gorgeous.

[Ana Navarro]

Yeah, it's bougie.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, it's bougie. So, hey, look, it is what it is.

[Ana Navarro]

Hey, you're making all of that real estate money.

[Don Lemon]

So it kept getting caught in the handcuffs. And they said, do you want me to take that off? And I said, sure. But I said, only if you're gonna do the right thing with it. And I said, I'm not giving it to you unless you're going to, because they take everything. And this very kind FBI agent walked up and Said. I said, was he black?

[Ana Navarro]

Yes, of course he was.

[Don Lemon]

You got it.

[Ana Navarro]

And he knew that it was ridiculous.

[Don Lemon]

He knew it was ridiculous. And so did the agent that drove me to the thing. Cause I sat in the front seat and I put. Instead of this, I got to sit there. And they go, man, we know we're just doing our jobs.

[Ana Navarro]

But, you know, Don, when you talk about. You just said that, and I almost wanna. I don't know that I can say this without tearing up, but the idea of you being in handcuffs and what that feels like, right, because there's so many black men, Latino men, particularly now, that don't have a team, that don't have celebrity, that don't have lawyers, that don't have money, that are getting unfairly handcuffed. So just. I mean, and I. And I think about that all the time because when I, you know, when I see what's happening with ICE and I see people that. That look like me and sound like me and have my name getting dragged through the streets, I think, what. What. What would it be like if I, you know, if I didn't have this platform and I got myself handcuffed? So what did that moment feel like when you're like, so your hands are behind you and you're wearing handcuffs.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, handcuffs. And look, there. A whole lot of things come to mind. Slavery, images, all of that, that came into my head. But the thing that I realized that I knew deep down was, number one, I'm gonna be okay. Not come from a. A great family and from a stock of people, my ancestors, who have gone through worse. So I knew that I was going to be okay. Also, I have agency. And I thought about the people who you mentioned that I was there covering in Minneapolis, who don't have agency, who can't call. The best civil rights attorney in the country that say, come fucking get me out of this when they don't have anybody. And so I was like, yeah, I'm going to be okay for those people. Because that's who I was covering. And I did the right thing. Journalists go where the news is. And so the moment they start trying to dictate to you who you can cover, where you can cover, what you can cover, this whole experiment is over. So. Honestly, I didn't think about me. I thought about those people, and I

[Ana Navarro]

thought, why are you crying?

[Don Lemon]

Because. Because I understand what it's like not to have anything, not to have a voice, to have people come after you for no reason, simply because of who you are or what you do. I've known that forever. But this was more. This was something else. As they say, this is a horse of another color.

[Ana Navarro]

And you know what I've thought about all the time? How did your mom find out that you'd been arrested so you had to call his mom? Your mom who has had to bury children.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And the only reason that he got to do it and she didn't find out on the news is because of that bracelet and the FBI agent who knocked on the door and said, your husband's been arrested. Here's your bracelet. Here's his bracelet.

[Ana Navarro]

Why were you asleep?

[Tim Malone]

I go to bed early.

[Ana Navarro]

I mean, you were out there covering the Grammys.

[Tim Malone]

No, it was two nights before.

[Don Lemon]

No, I was out there. I was covering the Grammys. Yeah, we were on tour.

[Tim Malone]

You went to an industry party.

[Don Lemon]

I went to an industry party. I just left the Spotify party.

[Ana Navarro]

So where exactly were you when they arrested you?

[Don Lemon]

In the elevator of my hotel in Beverly Hills.

[Ana Navarro]

And you're asleep?

[Tim Malone]

I was asleep in the room.

[Ana Navarro]

So at what point do you wake up and realize your husband's.

[Tim Malone]

When I heard the knock on the door.

[Don Lemon]

They knocked on the door, but I

[Tim Malone]

thought it was him coming home.

[Ana Navarro]

And at what time was that?

[Tim Malone]

11:45.

[Ana Navarro]

Jesus, you really go to bed early.

[Tim Malone]

Yeah, I had already been asleep for three hours.

[Ana Navarro]

Okay. And, Tim, like, I remember waking up the next day and, like, reading stuff, and I couldn't. I honestly could not wrap my arms around there because. And I remember I called you and I said, tim, what the fuck am I reading? Because I don't understand. What. What do you mean? Don is arrested? Arrested for what? What is happening? And. And you know, Don, you know this. I fled a dictatorship. I fled a communist dictatorship. And this kind of shit happens. Yeah, In Nicaragua, this kind of shit happens in Cuba. This kind of shit happens in Venezuela, it happens in North Korea. It blows my mind that this is happening. It blows my mind that my friend is getting arrested for doing journalism in the United States of America. Yeah. Doesn't it blow your mind?

[Don Lemon]

It should blow your mind, but what should blow your mind is, look, I was arrested for what I think was right, covering the people that you talk about, the people who have to flee and come to this country for shelter and safety. And those people, whenever you are here, whether you're a citizen or not, you have the right to due process.

[Ana Navarro]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

And no one is getting due process. And there are American citizens getting caught up in this. Immigrants are not bad for this country. Of course, everyone says, oh, you should come over legally. Yeah, you should come over legally. But a lot of these people forget how their fucking ancestors got here.

[Ana Navarro]

Marco Rubio's grandfather had a deportation order.

[Don Lemon]

That's what I'm talking about. And they forget that. And they don't treat people humanely. Like, treat people, you know, with some humanity and some dignity and don't go arrest them on the street or.

[Ana Navarro]

It's also crazy to me that anybody would accuse you of organizing. You are a journalist. Listen, I am a commentator.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Ana Navarro]

I'm not a journalist. I don't have to be neutral. I don't have to pretend. No, I can take a side and I can organize. And I do organize. I am a commentator. I have that freedom. I have always known you to be an ethical journalist. I've never known you to be so. I mean, these trumped up charges. So when are you going to court? What is this thing? Where are we on this?

[Don Lemon]

You know, the wheels of justice turn slow unless you're white and they take your case to the Supreme Court. And then you start, you know, changing things.

[Ana Navarro]

Yeah, but you know, you know how Chris Lick got fired?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Ana Navarro]

So did Pam Baldy.

[Don Lemon]

I told you so.

[Ana Navarro]

I'm kind of feeling like anybody who fucks with Don Lemon has their day, their professional days numbered.

[Don Lemon]

You're not the only one who says that.

[Ana Navarro]

Oh, you know who else fired you and got fired?

[Don Lemon]

Who?

[Ana Navarro]

Elon Musk.

[Don Lemon]

I know. Someone else we know said the same thing. They were like, don't fuck with Don Lemon and don't try to fire him or kill him because it just makes him strong.

[Chiquis Rivera]

Imagine never having to buy gas again. Sounds like a dream. Except it's real. That's everyday life with an electric vehicle. No long lines at the pump. Just plug in at home and go. EVs are as easy to charge as your phone and built for real life. Most Americans drive about 40 miles a day, and most EVs go 200 to 400 miles on a single charge. And with fewer moving parts, you've got fewer repairs and style. There are hundreds of new and used EV models to choose from. An EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. Learn [e-mail] 10:21 Podcast is brought to

[Yo Castro]

you by T Mobile. Yo Castro here. I've been around soccer my whole life since. Since I was three. From playing in Chicago to now streaming FIFA to millions. It's always been about the love of the game. And chat knows we don't miss a moment. We're watching matches live, calling each other, texting non stop group chats, going crazy. It never stops. That's exactly why I'm on America's best network. Honestly, you won't believe everything I get as a T Mobile member. I get weekly perks with T Mobile Tuesdays, stuff like exclusive experiences and streaming benefits like Hulu and Netflix. Don't know how I slept on this before, but now I'm locked in and switching was Easy. Takes like 15 minutes per line with the Tealife app. If you want more value, more perks and the best network, T Mobile's where it's at. Visit t mobile.com qualifying plan require t Mobile has the best mobile network in the US based on an analysis by UKLA of speed test intelligence data for the second half of 2025.

[Eva Longoria]

This is Eva Longoria from Hungry for History with Eva Longoria and Maite Gomez Rejon. Planned Parenthood Health Centers save lives. But lawmakers are trying to block patients from using Medicaid at Planned Parenthood health centers for one simple reason. They want to shut Planned Parenthood down. Yet across the country, Planned Parenthood health centers are still there, opening their doors to care for the community. That's because Planned Parenthood believes controlling your own body is the most basic freedom and they will never stop fighting for it. One in four people in the US have been to a Planned Parenthood health center for high quality health care like birth control, cancer screenings, STI testing and treatment, and more. Planned Parenthood is still the country's largest sex educator and a trusted source of unbiased and sexual and reproductive health information for millions of people. Planned Parenthood will never stop working to get people the information they need. And they will never stop fighting so that every person is free to make their own decisions about their bodies and futures. At Planned Parenthood, Care continues. Text update to 22422 to learn more.

[Angel/Diego/Jason (Cars.com ad group)]

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[Ana Navarro]

where to next? So, really, this has been, like, insane to me, right? So Tim has been so incredibly steadfast and well dressed, beautifully put together, coordinated. I mean, plain, please. Right? And you see these images of him walking with you, hand in hand. A gay black man, a gay white man, married, walking into the courtroom together. Wait, a gay. Oh, honey, let me break it to you. Cause God knows. And all of a sudden, they're talking about him as Kevin Costner from the Bodyguard, which, by the way, should be your Halloween costume this year. You Whitney. You're Whitney. He's Kevin.

[Don Lemon]

Wait, Hannah.

[Ana Navarro]

Okay, but what has Tim's unconditional, un fucking conditional love and support meant?

[Don Lemon]

Everything. I mean, I don't think I could have gotten through this without him. I don't think I could get through this without him, even beyond just that. The enormous amount of support that I get for him professionally, career wise, is unbelievable. People have no idea. I am so fortunate when they ask people, how does this work? Tim is a big part of how this works. And you know why? Because Tim was in sales and he has a sales background. And so when advertisers and sponsors come to me, I'm like, talk to Tim. Because he knows how to. Otherwise, I'm like, I don't know. What is a cpm? What is this? What's that? But beyond that, we take our vows seriously. And again, I don't think I could have gotten through this without him at all.

[Ana Navarro]

What has it been like for you?

[Don Lemon]

But hold on one second. I know it's been tough on him. The reason I'm crying is because I know it's tough on him, my family, and also on other people.

[Ana Navarro]

And also your mom. Can I tell you something? And your mom has buried children.

[Don Lemon]

My mom has buried all of her children except me.

[Ana Navarro]

She's buried all of her children. How many is that?

[Don Lemon]

Two sisters. Two older sisters. I'm the baby and the only boy.

[Ana Navarro]

And you and I. You and I have that. We share the club of having lost a sibling. Your mom has buried two children except you. And then she. And then she.

[Don Lemon]

And then she knows.

[Ana Navarro]

And then she sees you walking in, you know, walking into a courtroom and knows that you're arrested.

[Don Lemon]

That was the first thing he said to me, was, I spoke to your mom. She's okay.

[Tim Malone]

Yeah, well, I wanted her to hear

[Don Lemon]

from us, the two people in the world before it broke, him and my mom. And those are the people I love the most in the world.

[Ana Navarro]

What was that conversation with his mom like? So you. You're. So this is 11:45 in. In LA.

[Tim Malone]

11:45 in LA. Correct.

[Ana Navarro]

Okay. And at what point do you call?

[Tim Malone]

I called her right away. Well, I called his team first.

[Don Lemon]

That's the thing.

[Tim Malone]

I had to wake everyone up. He didn't. He wasn't a part of it.

[Don Lemon]

He said, I already had a war room because they had been talking about it. And so I thought about the people.

[Ana Navarro]

So you already had Abby Lowell on. On.

[Don Lemon]

I had Abby Law.

[Ana Navarro]

I had the best attorney, Allison Gollis,

[Don Lemon]

the best PR person in the world. And then I had my agent, who knows, you know, a lot of people in la.

[Ana Navarro]

Was Allison the PR person when you got fired?

[Don Lemon]

No, there. I didn't have a PR person.

[Ana Navarro]

But then after I did. Wait, no. By the time you got fired, Allison had been fired. Had left CNN too. Okay.

[Don Lemon]

And then that. That morning when it was gonna happen, when Jay called me, my agent called me, I was like. We were both like, get Allison on the phone. Because, you know, Allison was let go from CNN because of her relationship with Jeff Zucker. And it was like, oh, Allison is one of the best PR person for ever. The best marketing.

[Ana Navarro]

She was the PR person for Andrew Cuomo. That shit takes work. Yes.

[Don Lemon]

And she ran the show. Like, when Jeff was. She like, you know, I would have to call Alison to, you know, for. To ask for things or whatever. And it's like, okay, I'm not. I'm not bothering Jeff with that. But anyways, so I. That's what I had, a war room. And so that's why I started crying, because not everybody has those resources to be able to do that.

[Ana Navarro]

And nobody has a. And not everybody has a Tim.

[Don Lemon]

That's my next thing I was going to say.

[Ana Navarro]

So you. So you call Mama and you say.

[Tim Malone]

What did I say? I was quick. I just said, kat, he got arrested. And she sort of. We had all been on edge for two weeks. I think she kind of knew it might happen. But it was a super quick call. And then she kept texting me all throughout the night. And unfortunately, I had no updates because we were sitting there for five hours until I headed to the courtroom at 6am so there was nothing I could really do all throughout the night.

[Ana Navarro]

How has this changed you?

[Don Lemon]

I rely on other. Some other people more. I realized that other people really do have my back. And he does. He always has. And so it's made our love, I feel, grow stronger, and our commitment grows stronger. Our bond is stronger. And if anybody has any doubts about gay people being married, if it's different or what it is. No, I think we're maybe more committed than maybe your average straight couple. Most of the people we know, as you know, Anna, our gay friends, all have kids. We've all been married forever. And we know most of our straight friends have been divorced, you know, married again, divorced, whatever. And so I think it's made our commitment stronger. And, you know, the weird thing that came out of this is us walking out together, holding hands and showing this unity did wonders for interracial marriage and wonders for gay marriage. Black women are like, where's Tim? Hey, Tim. We walk to the airport, we go to the lounge. They're like, hey, Tim. I'm like, who am I, Top liver. I'm the famous guy one. And they're like, oh, hey, Don.

[Ana Navarro]

Hey, Tim. I love him.

[Don Lemon]

But everybody wants a Tim. Like, women want a Tim. And interracial straight women want a Tim.

[Ana Navarro]

Gay men want a team. Yeah, everybody wants a team.

[Don Lemon]

Everybody wants a Tim. And then. But also everybody.

[Ana Navarro]

People are like, nobody wants a Dawn.

[Don Lemon]

No. No, they don't. I mean, and I don't blame them, but they understand. Now, I think, you know, that especially interracial gay marriage is, you know, we can have a strong bond. And I think that a lot of

[Ana Navarro]

people realize that before we finish, because I know you have to go do your job because God damn, this is a lot of work.

[Don Lemon]

I'm only here this late for you because otherwise I'd be like, I gotta go.

[Ana Navarro]

Okay? But I wanna. This. I mean. Cause this has been a lot adon in the last few days, this redistricting stuff going on, erasing the black districts. And so, you know, I have heard white men, white men. We love white men, Tim. Not all white men, but we love you. But I have heard so many white men say, nobody's getting disenfranchised. They still have one vote. One person, one vote. Can't they be represented by somebody that's not black? Somebody that's not Latino? So can you just explain for a minute? Because, you know, I just want you to talk about how you're feeling about this redistricting and why it is that it is important to have black representation, Latino representation, women representation. When a white man says nobody's lost their vote, it's just. It's one person, one vote. I think to myself, you have Never been in a group that has been unrepresented. Not underrepresented, unrepresented. Cuz women used to be unrepresented. Blacks used to be unrepresented. Latinos were unrepresented. And it makes a difference. So how is this all making you feel?

[Don Lemon]

I would ask those people, how would they feel if all of their representatives were black or if all of their representatives were Latino or if all of their representatives were Democrats.

[Ana Navarro]

Fuck, they couldn't even deal with bad Bunny in the Super Bowl. You think they could deal with a bunch of. With, with 534 bad bunnies?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, that's my point. And so why shouldn't we feel the same way when all we want is the right thing? We just want representation. No one is asking for more representation than they should get. We're asking for equity and equality. And how do I feel about what's happened to voting rights? It's a crime. The Supreme Court should be. Clarence Thomas should be fucking ashamed of himself. How could anybody vote to get rid of the provision, the Civil Rights act that helped him to be on that damn court that he's so privileged to serve on?

[Ana Navarro]

Do you think he thinks he got there? Do you think he thinks that he's such a judicial legal prowess that he would have been appointed to the Supreme Court had he not been black?

[Don Lemon]

He got there because he was a sellout. He got there because conservatives wanted another conservative on the court.

[Ana Navarro]

No, they wanted, Remember he got there after Thurgood. No, he got there after Thurgood Marshall died.

[Don Lemon]

Right.

[Ana Navarro]

And he was appointed by a Republican who I think thought it was important back then. He thought it was important. If it was under Donald Trump, he wouldn't even have gotten there.

[Don Lemon]

He wouldn't have gotten there.

[Ana Navarro]

Right, but if it was. But he, you know, that's, that's, that's how he got there.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, but they also wanted a conservative. They did not appoint a, this person did not appoint a black liberal person. They appointed a black conservative person. I don't expect a Republican to appoint a liberal person. But there was a reason that he got there. And maybe they knew that he was going to be a sellout. Maybe they knew that he was going to be a pawn. Maybe they knew. Well, not that they knew, but it's

[Ana Navarro]

more than Clarence Thomas. I mean, this was, this decision was.

[Don Lemon]

Clarence Thomas is black man. On the Supreme Court of the United States, which is something that is extremely, extremely. Extremely what?

[Ana Navarro]

Rarefied air.

[Don Lemon]

And he should understand the history of this country more than anyone. Else. And for him to sit his black ass on that court and vote against black people is just beyond any comprehension.

[Ana Navarro]

You realize it's not just black people. You realize that I vote in a district in Miami that was created for a Cuban.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, I agree.

[Ana Navarro]

A Republican Cuban. But it's just.

[Don Lemon]

But this in particular is about black people.

[Ana Navarro]

Okay. But I'm gonna tell you both.

[Don Lemon]

This disenfranchises a lot of people at. This is about black people.

[Ana Navarro]

Oh, it is. Because they know that black people are the backbone of the Democratic Party.

[Don Lemon]

There you go.

[Ana Navarro]

And that if you somehow dilute the black vote, then that. Yeah, of course this is cynically targeted against black people because it's happening in the South.

[Don Lemon]

But they also know that the history of black people in this country, which they're trying to erase and the history. They think that if they give black people power that somehow that is going to. Number one, disenfranchise them. And maybe black people will do to them what they did to us. And so that's the concern. Even though they may not be conscious of that. And so while it disenfranchises a lot of people, the people it disenfranchises beyond black people are the people who got those freedoms because of what black people did during the civil rights movement.

[Ana Navarro]

All of that. All of that is true. And all of that is painful. And it's. It's hurtful. I mean, what the courts are doing is just. You know. In a country that's supposed to have checks and balances. Listen, you have to go do your show. I could stay here and I could talk to both of you. And we could drink all afternoon. We have to. So we have to make a date to do that.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Ana Navarro]

Tell people why I call you Jack. Cause I call you Jack all the time.

[Don Lemon]

Cause you're Karen from willing to.

[Ana Navarro]

Before Karen. Before Karen was a bad name.

[Don Lemon]

This is before Karen. Karen was the housekeeper, right?

[Ana Navarro]

No, that was Rosario.

[Don Lemon]

Rosario. Sorry.

[Ana Navarro]

Come on. Are you racially profiling me?

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Ana Navarro]

I'm the fucking housekeeper. No. I'm the millionaire with. Married to Stanley. What's wrong with you?

[Don Lemon]

I'm getting Karen and Rosario mixed up. But you were Karen. Yes. And you call me Jack.

[Ana Navarro]

Yes.

[Don Lemon]

Because we're best friends.

[Ana Navarro]

Yes. And because we like to drink and talk together.

[Don Lemon]

We like to drink and talk together. But we do have friends that are like Rosario and who we joke around about. Who are like our friends. But. Yeah, because we are.

[Ana Navarro]

Well, Rosario was a badass.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, that's. Yeah.

[Ana Navarro]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

Nothing bad about.

[Ana Navarro]

Oh, no. I love Rosario.

[Don Lemon]

But here's the thing, though, Anna. I don't know. It feels like that they went to, like, what do you call it? Back to the Future. And they found me and you. And then they came back and put it in the Will and Grace.

[Ana Navarro]

Why don't we pitch Asha? Why don't we pitch it?

[Tim Malone]

There you go.

[Ana Navarro]

Why don't we pitch Will and Grace with you and me?

[Don Lemon]

The prequel.

[Ana Navarro]

Yes.

[Don Lemon]

Or the sequel.

[Ana Navarro]

Or the reboot.

[Don Lemon]

Like, yeah, that's not a bad idea.

[Ana Navarro]

No, I'm gonna. We have friends we can call about this. What are we casting Tim as Rosario? I love you. Go work.

[Angel/Diego/Jason (Cars.com ad group)]

Karen and Jack.

[Don Lemon]

I love you.

[Ana Navarro]

Go work, Jack. Go work. You got 10 million people waiting to hear you.

[Don Lemon]

You better work, bitch.

[Ana Navarro]

Thank you to all of you for listening. Thank you to Don Lemon and Tim Malone for spending time with us and sharing their hearts, opening their hearts. I'm always grateful for you listening. Leave me your replies, leave me your suggestions, leave me your comments. And we will see you next week on BLEEP with Ana Navarro. BLEEP with Ana Navarro is a Hyphenate Media Group production in partnership with iHeart's My Cultura podcast network. For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Eva Longoria]

This is Eva Longoria from Hungry for History with Eva Longoria and Maite Gomez Rejon. One in four people in the US has been to a Planned Parenthood health center for life saving, life changing care. We're talking about birth control, annual exams, cancer screenings, STI testing and treatment and more high quality, expert judgment free care. And despite lawmakers efforts to shut them down, they're not going anywhere. Care continues at Planned Parenthood so that you can get the unbiased, high quality health care that you need to Text update to 22422 to learn more.

[Chiquis Rivera]

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[Ana Navarro]

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[Chiquis Rivera]

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