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- [00:02]
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- [01:00]
Narrator
Intended for mature audiences as it discusses topics that can be upsetting, such as drug use, sexual assault, and emotional and physical violence. Content warnings for each episode are included in the Show Notes. Resources for drug addiction and domestic abuse can be found in the Show Notes and on our website blinkthepodcast.com the testimonies and opinions expressed by guests of the show are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of myself or affiliates of this podcast. When something unthinkable happens, it's only human to ask, why me? It's a question Jake has wrestled with for years. One he asked in silence when no one could hear him. And even now, as he pushes his body through grueling therapy and fights for every inch of mobility, that question still lingers. Quietly, constantly, Jake's mind spiraled through possibilities. Was it years of drug use catching up to him? A bad batch fate? Or was something, someone pushing him toward this outcome? As friends and family opened up sharing candid thoughts about his addiction and his relationships, a troubling theory began to take shape. Could Jake have been poisoned? For two years, it remained just that, a theory. To many, it sounded impossible, far fetched, maybe even a way for Jake to shift blame away from himself and his drug use. But then, out of nowhere, Jake received a Facebook message from someone he didn't expect, someone with a strikingly similar suspicion.
- [02:53]
Justin
Sam.
- [03:34]
Jake
This is January 4th, 2022 at 1:00am I'm actually in an Uber with Justin at 1:00am and I see a notification on my Apple Watch.
- [03:48]
Narrator
At the time Jake received the message, he was in an Uber with Justin, one of his first Friends he made after beginning his recovery. Justin also happened to live in our apartment complex.
- [03:59]
Jake
I put my wrist down and I don't look at this for three or four days. Also, it was Facebook messenger to the Jhandle Recovery Facebook account, which I checked very infrequently.
- [04:16]
Narrator
Here's how the message starts.
- [04:18]
Jake
Are you available to chat? I hope it's not weird. If it makes you uncomfortable, I totally understand, but I need to clear something up regarding Elle. When I saw Regarding Elle, I was like, interesting because only her mom and really close people and me call her luck.
- [04:40]
Narrator
The message continues, I really wanted to get your side. I know you loved her, although I don't know you and I've never met you for some reason. I knew that without question and I hope to find some insight regarding my friendship with Elle, if you're willing. And then the message concludes with, I.
- [04:58]
Jake
Think your recovery and your success story was inspirational. I'm glad to Hear your recovering. Three days later, 4 or 9pm I answer, hi, what do you want to ask?
- [05:13]
Narrator
A response comes in 20 minutes later. I'm the guy she supposedly tried to track down in the west in Seattle. So this person is claiming to be the ex that Ellen had plans to see when she was fixing up her RV when she and Jake first started dating. The message continues, talking about his personal relationship with Jake's ex wife and then questioning Jake's relationship, writing comments like I was just curious about her behavior while you were married. She seemed very dedicated to you. Again, I apologize if this is inappropriate and I understand if you don't feel comfortable responding.
- [05:49]
Jake
I'm lol ing in my head by the way.
- [05:52]
Narrator
Another message, more complimentary. I knew do you love her? And probably tried just as hard, if not harder, to meet her demands.
- [06:00]
Jake
Okay, obviously he's texting with voice, something I do a lot too.
- [06:06]
Narrator
Another message, sorry, I meant I could tell you loved her. And then a line that completely rattled Jake.
- [06:17]
Jake
Do you think she poisoned you at all?
- [06:21]
Narrator
Now here is where Justin, Jake's friend from the Uber ride, comes into the story. As a witness to some of these.
- [06:28]
Justin
Exchanges, I met Jake here in the summer of 2020 and then over the next several years became super good friends. I was one of his first friends in his new life and I think we were drawn to each other by our energy to grab life by the horns and do interesting stuff. And I got to know the story and then we just hung out more and I was like, this kid is different. I don't know what it is about this kid. He's just like, different. Like, he's funny, he's the most engaging person in the world, and he's gone through all this crazy shit. Anyway, we went to dinner with me and my friend Rich and Jake. He was like, damn, this is my first time going to dinner, being out of the hospital. Like, this is awesome. That night he went to the bathroom. We let him go on his own, and he got trapped in the bathroom because the lock was too small for him to like, unlock himself out of the restroom.
- [07:26]
Narrator
Jake had been nervous to go out because he didn't know if a place was accessible to him, even if it said it had things like an accessible bathroom. And Justin was shocked to hear that nothing like this existed. So Jake pitched him an idea, and Justin, who is the founder of Drizly, thought it was a great one. The two went on to co found Ahoy, an app that allows users to review and view the accessibility of businesses. Jake is full of good ideas and he's a great person to go to dinner with.
- [07:56]
Justin
He told me his whole story, or, you know, obviously, like the first day I met him, I was like, damn, that's the craziest story I've ever heard. And it probably took him like a year for him to be like, yo, I have this crazy theory. I, like, don't talk about it very often. He's like, doesn't make sense that I ingested something that a bunch of other people did and ended up in this position. I have this theory that like, you know, maybe Elle did something. And I was like, shut up, dude. Like, no way. That's like, completely impossible that that would happen. I don't know her. He told me all the reasons why, but like, it's all just him making some assumptions based on data that he had only himself, but all of the other data points related to her taking relatively good care of him. It seemed like she wanted him to survive, right? So I was like, that's a totally crazy thing. And he would like, bring it up every once in a while. And I'm like, dude, stop. You can't let that be in your brain. Like, that's not healthy for you to be living thinking that she could have done something right.
- [09:05]
Narrator
But then two years after Jake and Justin met, and two years after Jake's divorce, the two are in an Uber together when Jake receives this first Facebook message from a man claiming to be Ellen's ex boyfriend. Let's go back to the original Facebook message thread. After Jake was asked, do you think she poisoned you at all? Jake responded with this is strange, homie.
- [09:31]
Jake
I'm unsure if this is for real. Your profile looks fake. I. I would not be surprised if this is Elle. The response is classic. That answers my question perfectly. She would do that. It's all good, man. I understand if it's strange. Apparently she told you all about me, but that's probably a lie as well. It's probably why she never would let me have friends or introduce me to hers. Thank you for getting back to me and letting me vent for a moment.
- [10:04]
Narrator
Jake, skeptical that this is actually Ellen.
- [10:08]
Jake
Writes back, wait for my book. Good luck. If this is Ellen a response, it's not. You can call me if you'd like. So my head is kind of spinning here. And this leads to a 23 minute audio call. And I'm still. Sorry, I'm still kind of like, I think this is L. I don't know.
- [10:36]
Justin
I was home and he just called me and he was like clearly distraught. And I was like, what's going on? He's like, dude, I just got this text message, like, where are you? Can you come down now? And I was like, sure. So I was with my girlfriend, we both came down and Jake was like noticeably shaking, like almost hyperventilating to some extent. And he showed me the string of texts from her ex boyfriend. And then I can tell she loved you. Do you think she poisoned you at all? Unprompted, which like Jake had only ever had this theory, kept it to himself, only told people super close to him. This is a guy that he's never met, I don't think reached out with a paragraphs of texts. And then it ended with one text that said, do you think she poisoned you at all? So Jake is. And I'm even getting goosebumps now thinking about it because like we're in this room in his apartment, like freaking out, you know, to get like an unprompted text that's really insanely accusatory to some extent. Without any prompting. I went from being like, get that out of your head. Stop thinking about it. It's not healthy for you to have that theory to holy shit, maybe she did it. Crazy. Crazy. So then we're like, okay, what do we do with this information? How do. Where do we go from here? You know? He's like, do I respond? Should I try to call him? And I was like, I think you should call him and just like start creating a relationship. Because based on the text, I think it was clear that he. They had broken up like super recently. And that's why he felt comfortable reaching out, I'm sure. Let's give, let's give him a phone call. We were like, should we record this? And I had just been through something with work, and I think Jake knew too, that Massachusetts is a two party consent state to record something. So we didn't record it. And the whole message to Jake was like, let's just let him talk. You know, clearly he has something to say or he wouldn't have reached out like this. So don't like spook him, basically. And let's like get as much information as we can. Let's just let him talk and see where it goes.
- [12:39]
Jake
It's on speaker and I call and he's like, yo. I'm like, hey. And he's like, it's not Al. And I'm like, I see that. I'm still skeptical. She's probably in the room. And he's like, after she told me you had died, I'm on the couch. I see on CBS Sunday Morning. Why would you lie to me about that? I could tell he was in crisis and he was definitely enraged. I'm like, tell me about, like, why you think she's crazy? You know, he's asking me some questions that I'm not really answering. And he's like, well, for one, she has all your hospice meds still. And I'm like, what? And he's like, bro, it's a lot. It's like 50. And I'm like, huh? What's she doing with them? And he's like, I don't know what the hell she's doing, but she makes him up every morning. I'm like a why? This is now essentially two and a half years after hospice. And apparently she lives in, like, why would you travel across the country with these two and a half year old hospice meds? And they sound like party drugs. These are like some weird medications for when your body's shutting down. And I'm like, why is she doing this? And he's like, I don't, I don't know. I moved out here, brought this new dog, puppy. And a couple weeks later, dog lost all its hair, lethargic. He's probably poisoned that dog. And I'm like, yeah, speaking of that, why would you say, do you think she poisoned you? And he's like, oh, she talks about it. And I'm like, what? And he's like, yeah, yeah, she talks about it. And I'm just like, I'm shaking.
- [14:37]
Narrator
I remember when Jake called me after this call happened, he was freaking Out. He told me before that there were some big question marks around why he'd gotten sick. So let's take a moment to explore why. Jake had started to suspect that his stache might. May have been tampered with. First, the heroin stash that he had been smoking. Just before his diagnosis seemed off, he called Adrian, his ex girlfriend and supplier, asking about the batch. Here's Adrian telling Jake about her memory of this realization.
- [15:11]
Adrian
You told me that it tasted funny. I remember you calling me, and you were driving, and you were like, this stuff tastes different. Did you guys do anything different to it? And I said, nope. Same shit that we've had for however long, like, nothing's changed. And I think you tasted mine at one point. You were like, yeah, yours tastes normal. Because we had the same stuff, so it should have been exactly the same. And I was like, it's the same, dude. I don't know what to tell you. It's not like it was a new batch or we had mixed it with something different or anything like that. Like, it was. It was the same. It was the same for, like, a month. I didn't get sick. Nobody else got sick that I know of. It was just Jake. And I thought it was so weird. Like, why all of a sudden? What was in it that could make him so sick? It was the same stuff he was doing, you know, the week before, and there were no effects from it. I asked other people if anybody had bad side effects, and everybody was like, no, it's the same as it has been.
- [16:08]
Narrator
I asked Adrian what this was like for her, knowing his heroin tasted off to him. And then his impending diagnosis.
- [16:17]
Adrian
For a really long time, I carried a ton of guilt because I'm the one that sold him the stuff that made him so sick. So for so long, I was like, I killed this kid. I can't believe. Like, I still have, like, a really hard time with that.
- [16:36]
Narrator
Up until the day that Jake was diagnosed, which is when his dad, Daron, quit speaking. Smoking heroin cold turkey. Duron had also been smoking from this same batch.
- [16:46]
Jake
I didn't notice any difference. I mean, I asked Jacob about that too. What was something different about yours? I mean, that's weird. Didn't make sense. We were both using the same drugs that came from the same person from the same batch. How come I was okay? Somebody did something.
- [17:09]
Narrator
There were already concerns about Jake's stash before his diagnosis. Something seemed off. Did it taste strange because he was getting sick? An early symptom no one recognized. But the food he ate tasted normal. And the heroin he smoked of Adrian's after telling her his was off tasted normal. And then the heroin Adrian brought him in the hospital when he was being diagnosed with acute toxic progressive leukoencephalopathy also tasted normal. Whatever was wrong, it seemed specific to his cut, the one he kept at home. Once admitted to the hospital, Jake was upfront about his drug use. Jake recalls a conversation about his heroin being brought in for testing, but Jake also recalls that that sample was never brought in. It wasn't until he began recovering that the pieces started to fall into place. Could it be possible, however unthinkable, that his heroin had been tampered with? People like Justin dismissed this idea as absurd, and Jake himself wasn't sure. He never spoke about it publicly, not in his Reddit posts, podcast interviews, or news articles. Even he doubted his own thoughts. Was he just bitter? Was his mind reaching for answers after surviving the impossible? A man with a new body, a new perspective, yet still searching for the why. But then came the messages from this man on Facebook Messenger. And then the call, unprompted, unexpected, yet confirming Jake's deepest suspicions.
- [18:55]
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- [20:02]
Jake
He also said at some point every time you're in the media, she gets really mad. You know, she never wanted me to tell this story and now it's all making sense in a way. It's just like weird.
- [20:17]
Narrator
I asked Justin if he thought that the supposed ex boyfriend was becoming suspicious that perhaps the call was being recorded.
- [20:25]
Justin
Yeah, probably. He started to get wary. Jake was probably pissed at me that we didn't record.
- [20:34]
Narrator
Wasn't recorded, but there were the Facebook messages, written evidence of another man's identical theory.
- [20:42]
Justin
That was the most. To me, the most tangible third party proof that I had ever heard or seen that would say, damn, this theory that Jake has always had might be real.
- [20:57]
Jake
The way the call ended was, I just stole her car and I'm about to drive it off a cliff. He didn't make it sound like he was gonna kill himself. He made it sound like he was gonna put a rock on the gas pedal, put in a drive, and watch it go down a cliff. Cause that's how much she was pissing him off.
- [21:20]
Narrator
The call had ended, but for Jake and Justin, the conversation wasn't over.
- [21:25]
Justin
We were like, okay, how do we respond to him to like, keep. Keep it friendly, like to keep a relationship of some sort.
- [21:33]
Narrator
So Jake types out a message on Facebook messenger. Jake writes, dude, I can't stop thinking about the poisoning thing. Like, did she ever hint at the fact that she actually did that? The response says, yeah, she joked about it, actually said, you were practice leading to and for my demise. But also showed disdain for the topic later and decided not to joke about it. What do you think? Were there any red flags? And then this man pivots the conversation.
- [22:05]
Jake
To drug use and then never heard from him again.
- [22:11]
Narrator
I find it strange that on the phone there was hesitancy to discuss this theory, yet he had no problem typing it out, leaving behind a much more concrete record. I find the choice of the word poison bizarre too. When discussing drugs, people usually use the word laced, which doesn't carry the same weight or intent as poisoned.
- [22:34]
Justin
In our conversations, there was a lot of reason to believe that that could have been possible. But as his friends in his new life trying to help him recover, it's like, that's not going to help you move on and get better. But. But for me, that genuinely changed with that text message. And then the phone call too. But like, the text, because you can't mince words in texts. That's completely crazy. And I don't know if in. Candidly, I don't know if in the heroin community if, like this concept of poisoning is a thing and so you would. That's like a joke that people make. Like, it wouldn't have even entered my mind. I just was like, heroin is a bad thing. It makes sense that maybe you inhaled like something in the tinfoil or something. Who knows? Like, it just isn't good. So, like, it's gonna put you in this position at some Point which I think is most people's assumption when they hear this story is that they're like, it's heroin, dude. Like, heroin is meant to kill you. So yeah, it probably killed you. But then the fact that he had the suspicion. Ex boyfriend, out of the blue sends a text with a suspicion. Elle is making jokes about a poisoning. Damn. Maybe this did happen. It's still not hard proof, but for Jake, it's as close as you could get.
- [23:51]
Narrator
As Justin pointed out, heroin is dangerous on its own and the world of drugs is full of uncertainty. To dig deeper, I reached out to toxicologist Dr. Anne Chappell. I wanted to know what substances are commonly used to lace drugs. Could Jake have been exposed to an entirely different toxin that affected his brain in this way? And beyond those three things that made Jake question the potential poisoning, the, the weird taste, the lack of sample brought into the hospital, and then the phone call, I wanted to rule out any other possibilities.
- [24:24]
Nordstrom Advertiser
My name is Ann Chappell. I am a board certified toxicologist with over 25 years of experience in the industrial chemical, pharmaceutical, consumer product industry. I've done risk assessments, I've looked at labels, I've helped people that live across the fence line. I've interpreted Data from, for CEOs, business people, you know, down to the downstream customer handling the material. And so my job really is to take this wealth of information that we have out there and kind of assemble it, figure out what's right, what is good science, make sure it's transparent and translate it for the right audience member. So I am employed by a consulting company, but I also have some side things that I like to do. I co host of Adverse Reactions, which is a podcast by the Society of Toxicology. And I've also done some other things for like Wired magazine or other podcasts where they want somebody to help them understand what is the intent or just provide some context for what may be happening and use some of the skills that I have and my resources to help people understand what we're talking about. Perfect.
- [25:42]
Narrator
We don't have a sample of Jake's heroin, so it will be impossible to speak in definitives here. But Ann can help answer some of the questions around what could have happened to bring on his diagnosis. Toxic leukoencephalopathy, and in Jake's case, acute toxic progressive leukoencephalopathy.
- [26:01]
Nordstrom Advertiser
It refers to damage to the brain white matter and it manifests itself as neurotoxicity. So what they've seen is that this tends to be more with females and People with liver insufficiencies. The liver issues can be typical of a drug abuser. We tend to think of the brain as being protected. You have a skull, and we all have this thing called a blood brain barrier, which something that protects our brain from being exposed to a number of different agents. So when you have certain substances, we often see that these agents that are really neurotoxic, very potent, those that can cross into the brain, those have been associated with TL formation. The fact that Jake's came on very quickly and progressed very quickly without going through the typical stages that you might see is a little bit unique. And a lot of times it's thought to be through a contaminant in the heroin.
- [27:11]
Narrator
Ann tells me about Lovosomal, originally created as an antiparasitic drug for animals and humans and now commonly used to cut into drugs like cocaine and sometimes heroin to increase the weight or volume of the drug.
- [27:25]
Nordstrom Advertiser
This is an agent that has been associated with heroin induced, chasing the dragon induced tl. I mean, first of all, a lot of drugs are bad anyway, and you don't know what you're getting. But we've all heard of rat poison. Rat poison has been used to cut different drugs. We also have Xylazine tranq that enhances, like sedation effects, but it can cause a lot of wounds and tissue damage when used. Or even baking soda, starches and sugars. Those can be used. Not usually having a lot of adverse effects with those. But again, anytime you change a particular route of exposure, you've got an issue. So, for example, if you are inhaling baking soda, people think, oh, well, baking soda's safe. Well, it's safe when you ingest it in certain quantities. It's safe when you make a cake with it or put it in the back of your fridge to absorb odors. But it isn't necessarily safe when you ingest part of it as a result of it being contaminated into your heroin. I think the point is that when you get a drug like heroin and you inhale it, you don't know what you're getting. So the fact that you are inhaling something right through the lungs into the bloodstream, going straight to the brain, it is a very, I guess, effective delivery method because you avoid the stomach breaking things down. Because when you ingest something, you ingest it, it goes into your stomach. The acid in your stomach tends to break things down, and then as it's absorbed, it goes through the liver, which the purpose of the liver is to detoxify drugs and get them ready to be eliminated. So by inhaling these drugs, you're able to bypass some of those other processes. And again, it's a very effective way to deliver substances, especially something that has been cut into the heroin that you're taking right to the brain. And if it already has the possibility to cross the blood brain barrier or is known to cause problems, neurotoxic type problems, it can promote those.
- [29:34]
Narrator
And here's where there's a bit of a chicken or the egg situation. Did Jake's inhalation of heroin and potential toxic contaminants over time lead to this diagnosis? Or was this specific cut of this specific batch laced with something that brought on this disease?
- [29:54]
Nordstrom Advertiser
There could have been something that he didn't realize because he was high, that mimicked TL early, and then maybe that dose and whatever it was in it or not in it kind of just pushed him over the edge. So it is kind of impossible to be able to tell. The. The other thing to remember is that humans as a whole have a very diverse way of responding to odors and tastes. Some people are super tasters, super smellers. Some people are not. The older you get, the less you're generally able to have functioning neurons in your nose that help facilitate the detection of odors. So it really depends on a lot of factors.
- [30:43]
Narrator
Ann is insinuating here that because of Jake's particular response to odors or tastes, or even as an early sign of toxic glucoencephalopathy, Jake may have thought his stash tasted different even when others did not. Which is true. He did, and others noticed no difference. However, this isn't entirely applicable for Jake's case, as he did taste other cuts from the same batch that were in the possession of other people and found no odd taste as he did in his own cut. Oftentimes, when we think of contaminants or cutting agents in drugs, we think of things like fentanyl or rat poison. But Ann brought up something else. Baking soda, a common item that you can find in most homes. And I was curious about this. What everyday substances could Jake have been exposed to or could have found its way into his heroin that could cause some serious harm when unintentionally inhaled?
- [31:42]
Nordstrom Advertiser
The route of exposure can be really important. Several years ago, there was a popcorn factory in Texas, and this popcorn factory made those microwave popcorn bags. And so they made all different kinds of popcorn. And one of the kinds was the theater butter type popcorn. You know, everything's going fine. The public loves this popcorn. But as it Turns out some of the lab workers started to get sick with lung related diseases. And what was happening is that these lab workers, they were in quality control. So they go down to the line and they'd have to pick maybe 15 or 20 bags off of the line, take them back to the lab, make microwave popcorn, open them up, pour them out, and count how many unpopped kernels there was. Because there's a standard in the industry that says, you know, for good quality, if your popcorn pops and you only get two kernels, bad batch. These workers, when they would open the bag, there would be a puff of the butter flavor. And as it turns out, that substance, diacetal, was severely damaging their lungs to the point where some of them needed lung transplants and resulting in permanent damage. So this idea that, hey, wait, diacetal is generally recognized as safe for its use as a butter flavor. Yes, if you eat it. But these lab workers were being exposed to really high levels and inhaling diacetyl right into their lungs. So why is this important in today's society? Well, there's an awful lot of vaping materials that smell like bubble gum or maybe they smell like buttered popcorn or mint or whatever cotton candy you want it to smell like. And they say, oh, I can put these substances in there because look, they're, they're safe. You know, I can eat them in my cotton candy. I can put them on my popcorn. But when you deliver them by an alternate route, that's when you have to be really careful. There are some common substances that become lethal, even in small amounts, and a good example is the substance Visine. Visine is an eye drop that you put when your eyes are really red, and it causes blood vessel constriction. The blood vessels constrict in your eye and they don't turn. Your eye doesn't seem as red. So when it's used as directed, it's fine. But what. Swallowing it in copious amounts can cause a very serious adverse reaction. If you get enough of it in you, it swallows enough, you can affect your central nervous system. And if you swallow too much of the substance, you can get severe drowsiness, sedation. So it kind of looks maybe like alcohol intoxication. It can change your breathing, lower your blood pressure, and you can result in respiratory failure or at severe cases, blurred vision, seizures, or even coma. So, yes, there are substances that you might have in your, in your home that you really have to be careful with and make sure that you use as directed in the root that you're supposed to. When we start going back to Jake's situation here, he was inhaling something that was damaging his lungs, which partially might have been damaging his blood brain barrier. And it could have resulted in something seemingly innocuous added to his drug, which may be taken orally or injected, would have been handled differently by the body. But because it was inhaled, maybe that's one of the substances that kind of pushed him over the edge with tl.
- [35:27]
Narrator
Ann tells me the most common poisonings are food poisonings. And while Jake didn't have food poisoning, I wondered about his career as an executive chef. He was working in a kitchen most days. Could he have been exposed to something there that when coupled with his heroin use, resulted in this disease?
- [35:47]
Nordstrom Advertiser
The state of California has decided that exposure to the combustion products from gas stoves is a problem for individuals and for the environment. So they are limiting the amount of gas stoves that can be used in California. You know, wherever Jake was working, if he was around a grill, if there were some open flames and those different combustion products, those could have potentially led to something. But if he was working in a restaurant where there's a lot of, you know, different foods and presumably sourced correctly, I wouldn't think that's quite as much of an of an issue. If you have a lot of stress, that can affect the functioning of your immune system, which your immune system is there to help ward off infection and to be able to protect you. You know, taking other illicit substances, chronic sleep deprivation, all those kinds of agents can subtly damage your immune system and make you more susceptible to a particular disease than maybe others. So if he was in a situation as a chef, working crazy hours, working a lot of nights, not being out during the day to get your healthy vitamin D, it could have depressed his immune system and made him potentially more susceptible. But in reality, trying to, you know, put your finger right on something that might have caused this for him, it's hard to tell.
- [37:29]
Narrator
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- [37:45]
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Narrator
To you by Pluto TV. Are you looking for your next case? Pluto TV has all your favorite crime dramas streaming for free, which means suspicion is free with countless cases to crack. Watch csi, Criminal Minds, ncis, Blue Bloods, Tracker, FBI and swat. All for free from all your favorite devices. Feel the free Pluto tv. Stream now pay never. Now I wanted to present a hypothetical. Let's pretend a sample of Jake's heroin had been brought into the hospital for testing. What sort of process is needed to find a potentially lethal toxin? Or would Jake's symptoms and heroin use be enough for medical teams to say, hey, he was a drug user and that's enough of an answer for us. No need for a full on criminal investigation.
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If you like mystery thrillers, you know the Pirro, Angela Lansbury, Agatha Christie. There's a whole plethora of items that have been used as poisons over the years and sometimes they will have a strange taste to them. For example, arsenic has a certain taste of like almonds cyanide as well. So sometimes there may be some kind of evidence like you maybe tasted something that was a little different. So certain poisons can mimic common illnesses, making them very difficult to detect. Things like heart attacks, strokes, infections, neurological disorders, all of those kinds of things could be associated with some kind of poisoning type event, some kind of adverse reaction to that. For example, carbon monoxide poisoning. That tends to mimic a flu, sometimes a stroke. Overexposure to thallium can mimic neurological diseases such as Ms. Or Guillain Barr syndrome. Cyanide mimicking heart attacks, seizures. So I think it's about us being kind of in tune with your own body and what feels right and, and what doesn't feel right.
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Narrator
Jake recalls a conversation with a medical professional who said it could be laced with something he'd never suspect, like a pesticide.
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Certain insecticides can cause nerve damage, seizures and coma. But usually with those, they can do a blood test and see, you know, maybe that your levels of this particular enzyme are impaired. But again, it's hard to figure this out. The, the other thing is that, I mean I'm addicted to procedural medical dramas and tox screen and CMC and blood and blah blah, blah. But that's for the common stuff, like they're looking for the tox screen, they're looking for things like fentanyl and opioids and you know, maybe some of these other agents that are commonly associated with an overdose. So it's not until there is a specific request or an indication and you actually have the samples to be able to say, no, I really need, you know, I need to look for X. And that's one of the reasons why whenever there is a suspicious death, it can take weeks and weeks for their. The tox screens to come back. Because, again, these are not necessarily common toxins that they're looking for. So it can be a little. A little difficult, and you have to be persistent. Things like metals can accumulate in hair and bone. Other agents you can look at, like warfarin, which is a blood thinner that's commonly found in rat poison. So they can commonly see. They can see that one pretty quickly. But some of these others, they'd really have to know what they're looking for. And that's the problem with some of these agents. You have to be a detective sometimes to really say, okay, what. What is it that might have caused the presentation of certain adverse effects?
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Narrator
Would they have been able to search for all of these potential toxins if Jake and his family had been able to provide a sample, or would they have simply tested for the basics?
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There would have been no reason necessarily to do it. Again, if he got this and then there were four or five other reports of overdoses or the same kind of symptoms presenting in a cluster in that particular area, there would have been no need, no reason to do that. Again, it can be very frustrating, and I think, you know, I don't know a lot about Jake, but the idea that we would treat certain classes of people, a drug addict, a historically overweight person, make assumptions about their health, make assumptions about what, where they are in their medical journey or in their personal journey, I think that dictates a lot of care across the US So it's not necessarily unexpected. Now, if you think that you were drugged or poisoned, you know, keep what you can pee in a clean glass jar, store that in a cool, dark place, and really work to create a timeline over several days. Again, this idea of what did you eat, when and where, what were you doing at the time? Everything you can remember for the last week. So this idea of, you know, advocating for yourself, and it sounds like Jake is really trying to do that and figure it out. Unfortunately, you know, there could have been a whole multitude of things in his case, and he could have just been on the brink of having an episode and whatever, he took him over the edge. But it does make for an interesting question. I think our culture today, we always want to know why. So either we don't repeat it or we help other people. You know, people that are ill, you know, why me? Is it in my genes? What did I do wrong? And it sometimes just isn't that simple. As much as we want to know.
- [44:17]
Narrator
The answer, we may never get the answers Jake's been searching for. And he may never get them either. All he's left with are theories and now a growing sense of concern. Concern for the ex boyfriend. Jake has tried to follow up to check in, but every attempt has gone unanswered. And with each passing day, Jake's concern only deepens.
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Jake
So my theory is they got back together because I get a text Same Facebook account From Facebook profile El do you want to read this?
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Narrator
It was sent June 7, 2022 at 6:50pm I won't share this entire exchange, but Ellen was kind, complimenting Jake on his sobriety and his journey of sharing his story and then asking him to be mindful in what he shares with her ex boyfriend as he was also working towards sobriety. Over the span of nine days, there were three messages sent asking if Jake had heard from this man. All of which Jake read but left unanswered.
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Jake
I think she was doing damage to his role. I don't know if he was going to kill himself. He made it to sound like drove that car down a cliff. I don't know if they got back together. I really don't know. But what I do think I know is that she is aware of what was said to me.
- [45:48]
Narrator
I do find the timing of this to be quite interesting. Jake hadn't directly heard from her in two years. I say directly because Jake had suspicions about a few burner accounts on social media, but otherwise it had been pretty quiet. And now she's reaching out under the guise of potentially shepherding an addict towards sobriety. I first started recording Jake's story a few years ago and this phone call happened in the middle of it. Just like Justin, I too started to wonder if this wild theory actually held weight. And there was something else Jake had told me that I wasn't intending to include in this series, but. But now with everything else that has been shared, it may be worth looking into. Back in 2020, when Jake was lying in bed dictating his story through letterboards or via his stepdad, Eli, he ruminated on everything that had occurred and a question popped into his mind. He went to Google and searched Munchausens, selected one of the first results and filled out the intake form. Not long after, Jake received a concerned email. Was he safe? Thank you for listening to Blank. This podcast is hosted and produced by me, Corinne Vien alongside my co creator and survivor Jake Handle. Our original music is composed by the brilliant and talented Michael Margay. We're so grateful for your support. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider rating, reviewing and sharing this story with others. For additional resources, updates and behind the scenes content, visit our website blank the podcast.com Blink will return with a new episode next Sunday.