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Episode 306: Counting Jews (with David Baddiel) - Blocked and Reported | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Episode 306: Counting Jews (with David Baddiel)

Blocked and Reported

Mon May 04 2026

Summary

Blocked and Reported, Episode 306: "Counting Jews (with David Baddiel)"

Release Date: May 4, 2026
Hosts: Jesse Singal and Katie Herzog
Special Guest: David Baddiel

Overview

In this episode, Jesse and Katie dive deep into the complexities of antisemitism, Jewish identity, and the shifting politics around discussions of Israel—centering the conversation on a recent controversy at comedy streaming service Dropout TV, which faced criticism for allegedly "platforming Zionists." British comedian and author David Baddiel joins Jesse for an extensive conversation about his influential book Jews Don't Count, the nuances of modern antisemitism, and the fraught intersection of Jewishness, power, and progressive politics.
The episode is both analytical and personal, blending humor, cultural critique, and candid reflection on what it means to be Jewish in the UK, US, and online.

Main Sections & Key Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Banter, Houses, and Recent Episodes

[00:11–05:15]

Jesse and Katie open with friendly ribbing about Jesse's living situation in Berkeley, Bay Area stereotypes, and online privacy concerns brought on by internet sleuths.
They transition to recap a recent "primo" (premium) episode about Dropout TV, setting up the current episode’s topic: how a small, vocal subset of the Dropout audience ignited a firestorm about "Zionist" performers after the October 7 attacks in Israel.
Tone: Characteristic sardonic banter and mutual teasing, warming up for the heavier discussion to follow.

2. Dropout TV’s Zionism Controversy

[05:15–09:36]

The hosts summarize how Dropout TV, known for progressive comedy, was criticized by a subset of its audience for allegedly platforming "Zionists," after two Jewish performers had tangential associations with Israel (one performed at a Tel Aviv hospital fundraiser, another referenced a family connection to Israel's founding).
Dropout TV responded with an Instagram post essentially stating “to our knowledge, no individual who has appeared on Dropout has openly identified as a Zionist”—a statement later deleted after outcry from the Jewish community.
Jesse found the statement "insane," viewing it as an example of the “Jews don’t count” phenomenon.
This prompts him to invite David Baddiel, whose book is directly relevant, for a wide-ranging conversation.

3. Interview with David Baddiel

[09:37–68:45] (Bulk of the episode)

A. Introduction & Jews Don’t Count Thesis

[09:37–15:43]

Jesse introduces David Baddiel, humorously listing his many roles: “actor, writer, comedian, broadcaster, author, dancer, model, actress, statesman, former prime minister...”
Baddiel summarizes the thesis of Jews Don’t Count: that in an era of identity politics and increasing sensitivity to marginalization, antisemitism is strangely discounted, especially on the progressive left.
Not active, “I hate Jews” antisemitism, but the subtler form of exclusion and neglect: “...they cared about, except for Jews.” (C [10:50])
Baddiel reflects on being thrust into the unofficial position of “King Jew” in the UK media since the book's release, and how few Jews are visibly open about their identity in Britain.

Notable Quote [11:53]:
“It’s not about active antisemitism... it’s more about people missing out Jews from the plate of things that we care about, things that we want to look at and ally ourselves to.” —David Baddiel

B. Comparative Jewish Experiences (UK vs. US)

[15:43–19:55]

Jesse and Baddiel discuss differences between American and British Jewry:
- US: Denser populations, greater organizational power, representation in media.
- UK: Only ~275,000 Jews, many closeted about Jewish identity due to a culture of reticence.
Jesse describes discomfort that “the public face” of Jews is often the most visibly Orthodox, which affects perceptions of Jewishness.
Baddiel emphasizes antisemitism is not about practicing religion—“Nazis ... do not care whether you pray or go to synagogue. ...It’s racism.” ([19:44])
Modern antisemitism often centers not on ancient blood libels, but beliefs in Jewish power and conspiracy: “our ostensible puppet mastering of global policy.” (B [19:55])

C. Jewish “Power” and the Progressive Blind Spot

[20:18–27:24]

Baddiel: Jews are uniquely stereotyped as both “low status” (classic racism) and simultaneously as “rich and powerful and puppet-mastering.”
Jesse opens up about his own experience: feeling a tension between collective trauma and the reality that American Jews are very “successful” in some fields.
Baddiel acknowledges American Jewish success but points out:
- “Money does not insulate you” (his own family lost everything fleeing Nazi Germany).
- This success does not justify erasure or rationalization of antisemitism: “You would never downplay a bias incident against an Asian or Hindu because they are powerful.” (B [26:09, 26:16])

D. The “Israel Question” and Jewish Identity

[27:24–38:33]

Jesse notes a “refreshing” line from Baddiel’s book:

“I kind of think fuck Israel. I don’t care about it more than any other country. And to assume that I have to have a strong position either way on Israel is racist.” (C [27:24])
Baddiel unpacks how non-Jewish progressives hold Jews uniquely responsible for Israel’s actions—an expectation not applied to other diasporic groups (“You’d never shout about Modi to a British Hindu comic.” [30:08])
Asserts: “Please treat Jews like you treat other minorities, progressives.” (C [31:34])
Baddiel’s personal history: He attended socialist Zionist youth camp “mainly for the girls,” but has little emotional attachment to Israel as a homeland—Britain feels more like “home and sanctuary.” (C [33:54–36:13])

E. The Assimilation Dilemma & The Internet’s Role in Hate

[38:33–43:41]

Discussion of “dual loyalty” and whether Israel can realistically be a “sanctuary” for Jews, especially for assimilated British or American Jews.
Both Jesse and Baddiel agree: their countries of residence (US/UK) are undeniably “home,” and moving to Israel as a bunker is both impractical and not a solution to antisemitism.
Baddiel: The postwar liberal multiculturalism model may be “the best hope” for Jews—but is increasingly threatened by internet-fueled extremism and conspiratorial thinking.
“The Internet has fucked that. ...Hate and rage...are turbocharged.” (C [40:30])

F. The Dropout TV Statement: Antisemitism or Not?

[43:41–56:42]

Jesse reads the Dropout TV post in full (see quote at [46:24]) and asks Baddiel to evaluate if it’s antisemitic.
Baddiel: The performative, “Stalinist courtroom style” of demanding Jews disclaim Zionism before being allowed into polite company is unique and troubling.

“You have to sort of cleanse yourself up front... That’s a Stalinist thing.” (C [46:24])

Other diasporic groups are never subject to such litmus tests—singling out Jews in this way is an example of “Jews don’t count.”
Admits it’s complicated: Criticism of Israel as a state isn’t inherently antisemitic, nor is opposing the existence of a Jewish ethno-nationalist state—but the slide into using “Zionist” as a catch-all slur for “Jew” is toxic, and context matters.

Notable Quote [49:13]:
“That Jews have to sort of say up front... ‘I’m Jewish, but I don’t support blah blah blah,’ which is absurd.” —David Baddiel

G. Double Standards, Rhetorical Moves, and Jewish Voices

[56:42–68:02]

The hosts and Baddiel parse the receding space for Jewish representation in comedy and culture—a far cry from Jewish dominance of US comedy in the past.
Discuss the perverse “hierarchy of racism” in progressive spaces, where “Jewish suffering” ranks low due to conflation of Jews with “whiteness” and power.
Analyze a quote from musician Julian Casablancas (“American Zionists get the benefits of white privilege...”), as an example of rhetorical “power times three”—White + American + Zionist.

“That’s how you say that... a group... under threat [is] embarrassed and silenced about the fact of that threat.” (C [67:44])

4. Host Debrief and Reflections

[68:45–76:52]

Katie’s Take:

Katie admits some uncertainty: The “Zionist test” is ill-defined; many American Jews would be included by even a moderate definition. “By that definition, am I a Zionist? ...I completely oppose Benjamin Netanyahu. But Israel exists, it does exist. And I like Jews. I think I’m a Zionist by that definition.” (A [70:49])
Points out the chilling effect: “If you say put out a statement like this and Jews self-select out off of your channel, you’re going to have a content problem, folks.” (A [73:16])

Jesse’s Closing Thoughts:

Reiterates: “I’m not saying criticism of Israel or even Zionism as an ideal is anti Semitic. I’m saying something that places such a specific unfair Burden and unfair scrutiny on Jews... is.”
Draws an analogy: This would never be accepted if applied to Muslims, Hindus, Arabs, or any other minority group; the standard is uniquely, and unfairly, applied to Jews.
Notes that Dropout TV’s lack of transparency, and their failure to define or clarify their policy, contributes to the unease and alienation of Jewish performers.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

On excluding Jews from the progressive “circle of care”:

“It’s about people missing out Jews from the plate of things that we care about.” —David Baddiel [10:50]
On how antisemitism uniquely persists despite Jewish assimilation/success:

“We are the only minority who have an association with power.” —David Baddiel [20:18]
On the “cleansing” ritual some Jews feel obliged to perform:

“As a Jew now... you have to put your cards on the table and say, I don’t support the state of Israel, I’m not a Zionist before you’re allowed in sort of polite liberal conversation.” —David Baddiel [46:24]
On progressives’ expectation of Jews to answer for Israel in ways other minorities are not:

“We definitely want to have black comedians. ...There should be a Jewish space for Jewish comedy. ...That’s Jews not counting. Right.” —David Baddiel [62:08]
Jesse on why the Dropout policy feels “anti Semitic”:

“It places an undue burden and undue scrutiny on Jewish performers.” —Jesse [71:58]

Timestamps for Important Segments

[09:37] — Interview with David Baddiel begins
[27:24] — Discussion of “Fuck Israel” quote and the dangers of conflating Jewish identity with the Israeli state
[46:24] — Reading and critique of Dropout TV’s “Zionist” policy statement
[49:13] — “You have to cleanse yourself up front...” (on the unique burden placed on Jews)
[62:08] — “There should be a Jewish space for Jewish comedy...” (on Jews being excluded from the marginalized/minority status)
[70:49] — Katie wrestles with the definition of Zionism and solidarity
[71:58] — Jesse summarizes the core problem: undue burden on Jews in public/professional life

Memorable Moments

Jesse and Baddiel both compare the expectation that Jews see Israel as their “sanctuary” as unrealistic and alienating.
Baddiel’s humor about being “King Jew” in Britain and his Twitter bio simply reading “Jew.”
Baddiel’s observation: “...the Jewish side wants to get angry and the British side wants to not make a fuss.” (C [17:44])
Katie’s dry quip: “If you say put out a statement like this and Jews self-select out off of your channel, you’re going to have a content problem, folks.” (A [73:16])
The running joke: “Jews don’t count.” (Multiple timestamps, including [76:51])

Conclusion

Blocked and Reported Episode 306 delivers a rigorous, personal, and at times biting discussion on antisemitism’s evolving forms, the double standards of progressive politics, and the social minefield navigated by Jews in the Western world today. Through a frank and often funny conversation with David Baddiel, the hosts lay bare the unique pressures placed on Jews to defend or denounce Israel, the problematic use of “Zionist” as a stand-in for “Jew,” and the ways in which the drive for justice and equity sometimes overlooks—or even promotes—prejudice against one of history’s most persistent minorities.

For more, including the deep-dive into Dropout TV’s history and further reflections, listen to the full episode or check out Blocked and Reported’s premium/primo content at blockedandreported.org.

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Transcript

A (0:11)

All right, Jesse, so today is your last day at your San Francisco. Wait, Berkeley? Are you in Berkeley?

B (0:17)

You know, it's like you don't even know me. I have. Yeah. I've been in Berkeley for the last few months.

A (0:21)

You seem like more of a Berkeley guy. You've been staying in.

B (0:25)

Hold on, expand upon that.

A (0:26)

You're a dork.

B (0:27)

As opposed to, like, the super cool people of San Francisco.

A (0:32)

You don't do fentanyl.

B (0:33)

Not that I know of.

A (0:34)

Tech. And you're not in a polycarbonate.

B (0:36)

Not that you know of.

A (0:37)

So Oakland is out. Yeah. So you've been in Berkeley for the

B (0:41)

last couple of years. Wait, you're saying Berkeley doesn't have poly. Sorry. Okay, well, we can move on. I was. My pride is slightly wounded, but we'll move on.

A (0:48)

Okay. When I think of Oakland, though, I think of A, black people. You're not that. And B, like, queer, anarchist polycule types. You're not in a queer polycule. You in a normal polycule. Which is. By that, I mean that you've been renting a room in Ayla's apartment, right?

B (1:02)

I have not. I. I have not rented a room in Ayla's apartment. I. I mean, you're. You're somewhat correct. Oakland. Oakland is a lot of things, Katie. It's a lot of things. And some of the. Obviously, some of the. Some of the. Some of the freakiness extends into Berkeley, but. Yeah. Today is my last day. After we finish recording this, I will pack my stuff up and throw my laptop in the ocean and come back to New York.

A (1:28)

And you have been so. I've gotten a glimpse of this apartment that you've been staying in for the last several months because of our. Our many Zoom chats, and I just.

B (1:40)

We like to do, like, a Zoom chat, check in just to see how each other is doing separate from the podcast. Every day.

B (7:22)

They just. They just snuck onto this improv show somehow. I know these are Jewish performers who. One of whom had performed at a fundraiser in. In la, I think, for a hospital in Tel Aviv that was treating victims of October 7th. The other one had at one point said that his grandfather had helped found Israel, but was also clearly not like a fan of killing Palestinians. So it was this witch hunt. And a petition was launched. And the petition was just crazy. It was really crazy. Especially again, in the context of you are mad at an online improv channel and you should just listen to the Primo episode if you want to get the full details of that. What matters if you're a freeloader, if you're on the free feed, is that Dropout TV responded to this actually very small wave of anger from their ultras by posting an announcement to Instagram that read in part. We've seen people saying that Dropout is platforming Zionists recently, and we feel it is important to respond. To our knowledge, no individual who has appeared on Dropout has openly identified as a Zionist. That was subsequently deleted because there was a wave of outrage from the other side. But I found it insane. I found this statement to be anti Semitic and just. Just crazy. And it made me remember that there was this guy I had met, this brilliant British broadcaster and writer and comedian named David Badil, and he'd written a book called Jews Don't Count. And this made me think of the Jews Don't Count thesis. So I read his book and I wanted to talk to David Bedeel. And I was thinking we would do an episode, you and I, about the Dropout thing and maybe include like, you know, 15, 20 minutes of me going over this with Badil. But I really like the conversation with Bad Deal because we talk about this, we talk about other aspects of just being Jewish and what's right, what's fair, anti Zionism, anti Semitism, circumcision. I just thought it Was a good conversation. Circumcision. Should we be allowed to circumcise other people's kids without their consent? You know, just the normal stuff Jews talk about when no one else is around. So that's today's episode. Katie, anything you want to add as the token gentile with the Jewish last name or Jewish seemingly last name?

C (17:48)

Yeah, well, I certainly think there's a very complicated conversation to have about the visibility of Jews and the idea that there is a specific idea of what a visible Jew looks like and how. Because that also relates to the fact that part of the Jews don't count thing is that people think Jews can pass and that people think that Jews are white and that Jews, like, when they complain about anti Semitism. Well, just go back into the closet. Is essentially what people. What progressives mean by you can pass a thing. They would never say, by the way, to a gay man or whatever. Like, you know, Jews are not Allowed to be proud of their Jewishness because if they then say, well, we're getting anti Semitic attack, they get accused of white privilege, which is you don't, you know, you can pass if you want. And unless of course you look like a religious Jew. I another thing, like if there was one thing, it's an interesting thing that seemed to sort of surprise people who hadn't really thought about Jews when they read Jews don't count in this country at least is there's a bit in the book where I say the key thing about anti Semitism is it's nothing to do with religion. That because, you know, my grandfather, I'm an atheist and it would make no difference to the Nazis. My great uncle Arno died in the Warsaw ghetto. He was an atheist. Nazis and indeed white supremacists who are trying to burn down your house, they don't ask if you keep kosher before they burn down your house. That's why it's racism, because racists, who are the people who actually count when you're talking about racism, you have to listen to them and what they think do not care whether you pray or go to synagogue. The only reason in fact that 11 Jews were massacred in Tell Me Pittsburgh in 2018 was not because they were at synagogue. It was because a right wing shooter knew that's where he would find Jews. He thought Jews were responsible for immigration because he believed in the great replacement theory. So it's very important that when you talk about that image of the religious Orthodox Jew, actually he's a bit irrelevant to modern anti Semitism.

C (23:51)

Well, it's slightly different in America, actually, in terms of the book's success. I. I have been asked a couple of times to come and speak in America based on the book. And I got asked to do some big gig for, I'm going to say, the uja, some big Jewish whatever organization, and I'm doing it. And I'm talking about how, you know, there's an image of Jews as being all billionaires and all powerful and blah, blah, blah, and how that's mythic and used against us. And then I said, not in this room, obviously, because it was clear to me as I looked out that, oh no, they are all incredibly wealthy. That's how they've paid for me to come from London to do this event. So it is. You know, clearly there are ways in which Jews in America have mobilized. It's more important in a way than the money, than they've mobilized politically. I mean, it's very different in Europe where, you know, there's very immediate examples, very recent examples, obviously the Holocaust. In my own case. My mum was born in Nazi Germany. My whole family was murdered on that side. The money that they did have was very, very much taken away from them. And that's the problem with the notion of Jews being wealthy and powerful, because what happens is in a kind of progressive mindset, that's power is a block. There's no nuance in power, Whereas historically that's absolutely not true. My grandparents were indeed quite rich in Germany in 1932. By 1939, they had nothing. They were fleeing to Britain with my mother as a baby and most of their family was murdered. But the notion is that money somehow insulates you from that and will forever. And that simply isn't true. I also think that having some money and some power, which American Jews maybe have, should not mean that therefore one is allowed to be anti Semitic about them. I E to propagate all these kind of conspiracy theories or whatever about them. And if you were to apply that to other minorities, some of which are also doing pretty well, by the way, Asians in America doing pretty well. Hindus in America do pretty well. I don't think that I or any or any other liberal minded person is going to start saying really negative things about Hindus and then think, well, that's okay because Hindus have got money and power, haven't they? That seems so unlikely.

C (30:29)

Yeah. Precedes the establishment of Israel. It's deeply, deeply baked in to Western European way of thinking and indeed other cultures way of thinking, and it's a part of the Jews don't count phenomenon, is to sort of dismiss anti Semitism as just basically a side effect of the behavior of the state of Israel. I'm not saying, and it's become extremely complicated that anti Semitism isn't indeed triggered by and turbocharged by the actions of the state of Israel and all the rest of it. But I wanted to say, firstly, as a minority in Britain, other minorities are not beholden to or imagined as intimately connected with what you might call their heritage country. So I'm a comedian, right? Comedians quite often, if they start talking about being Jewish now on stage, which I do, it hasn't actually happened to me because partly because I'm doing stand up recently, but anyway, you'll see videos of people immediately shouting Free Palestine if someone just talks about being Jewish, right? So meanwhile there's a comedian called Phil Wang here, friend of mine, he's of British Chinese heritage. If someone was to shout out about the Uyghurs when Phil Wang was doing his bit, or if Ramesh Ranganation, who's a brilliant, incredibly well known comedian who's Sri Lankan but of Hindu heritage, if someone was to shout about Modi and his sort of pro Hindu supremacy policies while he was doing stand up, that person would be immediately, if it was on Twitter or whatever, isolated, cancelled all the rest of it for being racist because Romish is British, Phil Wang is British. And so therefore highlighting and underlining and holding them responsible for the actions of a foreign state is racist. It's racist to even kind of mention in a way that that person should be thought of as foremost something to do with this other country. So I wanted to put down that, I want to say the whole thing about Jews don't Count is please treat Jews like you treat other minorities, progressives. And one way you treat other minorities is it's kind of uncomfortable, isn't it, to refer to a British Nigerian's Nigerian ness, for example, right? You don't do that. It's really weird and impolite. But Jews constantly, it's fine to ask them what they feel about Israel or to now just say immediately, oh, you're Jewish, basically, free Palestine, right? And so just one more thing which I think is maybe different. So I did a. I did a documentary which is on Channel 4 here called Jews Don't Count, based on the book and I actually did a screening of it in New York which is packed out, I have to say. But at the UK screening, a woman came up to me who's a writer, Jewish, not particularly out, but she's, you know, out enough. And she came up to me and she whispered this thing about the Israel section of that documentary, which is similar. And she said, thank you for being the first ever Jew, British Jew or whatever, to sort of say publicly, you know, it's a foreign country. Right, yeah. And that's all I'm really saying is it's a foreign country. And yes, some people feel very connected to it, some people feel whatever, but at the end of the day, it's a foreign country. And people who are not Jewish should not expect that there is a freedom to condemn Jews on the basis of stuff happening in that foreign country because of an assumption of connection.

B (60:06)

Yes, there's, there's communities where each occurs in this, I mean, in this case, again, it's more of an American phenomenon. But Dropout TV right now is, is so hot and popular that if you're a young performer getting a chance to go on one of these shows could be a make or break career moment. And the way I read this Instagram post was that if you're a Jewish performer and you've had any trace of what most Jews in the US believe on your social media profile, you might not be able to go on this show. And that I find that disturbing. And, and just the one point I wanted to circle back to and I, I really appreciate your time is like the use of Zionism in this way as sort of a slur or. I, I've seen not just Zionism as racism, but Zionism is not, is, is akin to Nazism, which is insane. Growing up in the US as a Jew, we're told a particular story about what is viewed as a liberation struggle. And I think like a lot of stories of liberation struggles, they sand off some of the rough edges. They sand off the people who are displaced. They send off the worst things the most, you know, violent Jewish revolutionaries did. But I just sort of think we have a right to our own myth if every other group has a right to their myths. And it's not, not entirely a Myth and this idea that Jews are not allowed to believe, this thing we were taught from a young age, that was largely a response to the Holocaust and to pogroms in Eastern Europe. The idea that we need to come out and publicly renounce that to have a career or to be able to go on a show like Dropout, that to me is like, I don't know. That doesn't sit right with me at all. And that, to me is where. If it was any other statement that even though it's not overtly anti Semitic, correlated that much with a marginalized group, it would have been a shit show. People would have been. I'm not calling for people to be fired. I love Dropout tv. I think they're brilliant. I think they. They're getting the credit and acclaim they deserve. I think I'm just annoyed at the double standard because it's almost like, and I'm coining this phrase right now, it's like, Jews don't count or something.