← Blockspace: AI & Bitcoin
Blockspace: AI & Bitcoin
Robinhood Opens AI Trading, IREN’s $1.6B GPU Buy, Hut 8 CEO Beacon Point Update
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Foreign.
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Hey, what's up y'?
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All?
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Welcome back to Blockspace Live, brought to you by CleanSpark today for our top story, big day for agentic payment enjoyers because AI is coming to Robinhood. That's right. You thought you were going to use AI to automate your workflow. It's actually going to make you trade better or make you poorer, depending on the decisions that it makes, not financial advice. And then for our interview today, we have asher Ganute of Hut 8 on to talk about their new Beacon Point AI data center that they announced earlier this month. Onto other news, Aaron is buying Blackwells for its Nvidia rollout in Childress $1.6 billion purchase that just hit today. We will cover that as our second news item. And then for our third news item, we have Core 42 seeking out half a billion financing to build data centers in US and surprise Europe. Perhaps the demise of Europe has been much overstated on social media. And to wrap it up, a little bit of a juicy story here, Mera's security expenses in 2025 and why that's actually not out of the ordinary these days for crypto executives. As much as the Financial Times would like to berate them and make you feel like this is a weird thing to do when wrench attacks are happening all over the world, it's actually kind of normal and becoming the standard for some of the top companies.
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That's right. Blockspace goes live Monday, Wednesday, Friday at noon, soon to be weekdays at 1pm Eastern featuring quick hits on the latest in Bitcoin, mining, AI and emerging tech. Make sure to like and subscribe follow on your favorite platform. Make sure you hit the notification bell to get the push notifications to your mobile device while you are scootering to your sloppable somewhere on one of the coasts. If you like the stream, it turns into a podcast right after anywhere podcasts are found RSS Feeds if you're listening on Coindesk, stop what you're doing, get off the scooter, navigate to the block space feed on Spotify or Apple and subscribe to the Blockspace feed instead of staying on Coindesk. And we still write a newsletter drops on Fridays newsletter blockspace media.com this show is brought to you by CleanSpark. Nasdaq listed ticker CLSK. More on them later on the show. Let's kick it off Colin I'm very excited to figure out a way to get poor faster by letting my AI agent run amok on Robinhood's MCP server so here's the story. Robinhood just today announced that they are rolling out. They're open to agents. So specifically they're rolling out the agentic trading and agentic credit card quote, enabling agents to trade and make credit card purchases on your behalf. Basically, the TLDR is Robinhood set up an MCP server and model Context Protocol server to let your AI agent plug into their platform and make trades on your behalf. It's got some guardrails around it. Like you can turn it off, you can give it like a budget and an account and it's live only for stocks right now. Can't do crypto yet, but there's a little bit more under the surface here that we can get into. Are you excited to finally figure out how to set up OpenClaw and how to. And let OpenClaw go long and short Nvidia upon earnings. What are your thoughts?
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You said guardrails and that's the first thing that I thought about with this because you had all these horror stories when OpenClaw came out of people using it to automate workflows. And it would like delete their entire email, it would like delete full databases from their computer. I'm sure that that is very much the exception and not the rule. In fact, we know that's true because when one of the stories pops up, it goes viral because it's crazy. Then of course all of the AI doomers are like, see, it's actually really stupid, bro. You know?
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C
Yeah.
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And so my first thought is like, what, what is the liability here for, for Robin Hood? Right? Like it's, do you have to put up like, do you have to get a defense fund going in case the AI decides to like ape your entire 401k or your portfolio into some shitter that ends up tanking? Yeah.
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C
You know, so you say guardrails and I will say that this particular product appears to have a lot of guardrails out the gate. First of all, it's a separate trading account. So it's not like your primary trading account. It's a separate trading account, which means they're going to give you fewer knobs and a lot more shut off switches. So specifically it'll send you real time notifications and have a big instant shut off option. I would love to see really tight leashes that you could put around these AI agents. And what's, you know, the crazy thing is like this, if we go back in time, we go back to the original like launch of Robinhood. Robinhood's like Whole point was like put like letting you retail get more like hands on direct interaction with the stock market. You could buy fractions of stocks, you would have a lot more like granular touch points. They, I think they added futures pretty early on. And so these were like things which were not really broadly accessible and to the average person and probably shouldn't have been. Yeah,
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B
I mean like straight up stock picking one thing but like, honestly bro, like your average retail investor doesn't need to be messing with futures. They don't need to be messing with options, you know.
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C
Yeah, but, but we've seen these average retail investors become very, very advanced in maybe an asymmetric way. And at what cost? We can debate that some other time but this is you know, in contrast to the more sophisticated, the citadels of the world, your Hudson Yard, Hudson river, whatever they're called, like these, these really sophisticated institutions who basically, you know, are at least one to two to three years ahead of you in their technical prowess. So the irony is like now Robinhood's letting you offload a lot of your responsibility onto an AI agent, if you will. And it's interesting because this means that your little AI agent can compete more directly with all of the other retail people's AI agents. What does this do to reflexivity in the markets? What does this do to like the speed of trades? And you know, are the agents going to create their own little GameStop cult? I do wonder these things.
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Can you imagine, remember what was the, like a social media platform that Facebook bought for some absurd number?
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C
Yeah. Mold book. So imagine mold book.
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But just sitting there scheming, hey, we could like this, you know, you could have a GameStop moment. The stock seems to be undervalued, the volume is low. Let's instrument a short squeeze. One thing though, just to go back to what Robinhood did for retail trading. It seems to me, and I don't really use Robinhood, but it seems to me that what Robinhood really did and where it shined is it took the UX and UI from like a crypto exchange and it made brokerage better. So like all of these things that you can do on Robinhood, you could go to your Fidelity dashboard and do, and you could go to any number of these financial services companies. But it, it's very boomer fied, you know, like it's, it's, it's, it makes my eyes bleed whenever I open up my Fidelity account because it's the buy
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button on Charles Schwab is so, so small. I can't Even find it, the buy button needs to be half the ui.
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Maybe there's a lesson in that. And, and going back to, like, what I think this, what, you know, ramifications for this for retail. I think a lot of people are going to fool themselves into thinking that they can spin this up and the AI is going to make genius stock picks. But I would imagine that a lot of the benefit here is like what you said with automatic trading, setting parameters, explaining what portfolio weighting you want. Do you want to go high growth? Do you want to play it safer with consumer staples? And you're going to have to factor all of that in and then it's going to make trades for you. If you don't already have a thesis and you don't already know what you want to be allocated to, if you don't already, if you haven't already done the homework to see what you're comfortable with in terms of portfolio allocation to all these different sectors. Is this going to help you? You could just say YOLO into whatever or just give it loose parameters. But I think a lot of retail folks are probably going to trick themselves into thinking this is some magic trading bot, when really it's probably just going to make it more efficient for the people who actually know what they're doing. Now, the one interesting thing here is copy trading. This is going to make copy trading very easy for people.
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Yes.
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And so you'd have to imagine like a almost, you know, secondary effect of this is the stock trading gurus are probably going to have a very easy time selling their trades because now people can copy them super easily. Before you had to set up all these bots and do all this other crazy stuff. The AI can just do that for you.
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So it's.
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Yeah, it's very clear. Everybody needs to set their open claw to connect to Robinhood MCP server and have it copy trade Nancy Pelosi and inverse Jim Kramer. Like, imagine 60, 40 portfolio where it's just copy trading. You know, long Pelosi short Kramer. You know, there's your. Now I actually get the whole aia.
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Yeah, right. I mean, it would be interesting to see if the Pelosi tracker comes out with some sort of like, affiliate thing with Robinhood.
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C
A Pelosi tracker MCP server. Okay, that's it for Robinhood. We have our first guest. We have Asher Ganute, CEO of Hut 8, here in the wings. We're going to transition to talk about data centers. Let's bring him on up. Asher, welcome back to Blockspace.
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How's it going. We should keep the topic on copy trading. I like that. That was interesting.
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We'll go ahead and do. We'll get to hut 8 here in a second. To the real interesting stuff. But like what do you think about this Robinhood news and what do you think about the implications for retail kind of given a bazooka where maybe, you know, maybe a BB gun would be more appropriate for most of them.
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I think it's fascinating and I think to your point, these influential investors, it actually makes their trades even more powerful. Right? Because a lot of times you see a trade people fall into the thesis and, and so now when they actually move, they'll have a whole train of folks that follow them. And if you think about the kind of most OG person that was when Warren Buffett made a conviction play, people usually kind of followed in after and you had the Warren Buffett effect where the stock would go up because he was involved and had conviction. And I think that's good because people can just bet on investors that they believe in and you don't have to pay 2 and 20 for a fund. Honestly, I think it's bad because who are the investors that you should believe in? Who are momentum traders versus who actually has deep fundamentals and is doing the diligence and so forth. So I feel like people should be excited by it, but also have a certain level of rest threshold and not just assume, okay, this person has this track record so I'll guarantee make money and then put in 90% of their wealth and potentially it loses. Because I think right now the markets are very healthy to say the least. And like you see a lot of kind of stocks appreciating and doing well. But we're in a very volatile environment as everyone knows. If we think about like the stock market volatility over this last year compared to the decade beforehand. I mean the amount that you see these kind of like multi trillion dollar companies trading in terms of single percentage changes kind of week over week or day over day is really unprecedented. It used to be a lot more stable back in the day. And so I think it's, it's exciting because it's a natural trend of where things are going. People are doing it in an analog fashion anyways. I think it just requires a bit more kind of thought and sophistication on like what am I actually getting myself into and like what is the risk I'm actually taking.
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And going back to your point about which investors are actually worth following, I would imagine that following this release a lot of Twitter. Twitter traders are going to end up having some sort of paid subscription service like they already have, but where you can basically just copy paste their trades and it might lay some of them bare. Right. And that is I think where it gets tricky for a lot of people in retail. They follow some of these guys thinking that they're going to find a diamond in the rough, but it's like a dude with an anime profile picture. You have no idea what you're getting day in and day.
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Yeah, but the, the new, the, the paid API endpoint for your favorite influencers trades is the new gated telegram group. This is there, there's your.
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And then the question is, are you trading now on momentum or are you trading on fundamentals? Right, Because a lot of people have made a lot of money in recent years trading on momentum. And I mean GameStop is like the perfect example of a momentum trade that a lot of people piled in. It's going to be easier to momentum trade behind influential folks and say, you know what, I trust you to go and try to drive this. But that's a very different type of investing and people just need to be eyes wide open to that.
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Yeah, that's a really good point. As my dad has said over the last few years, everyone's a genius in a bull market. Right. And I just, that's still my one caveat with this is I worry a lot of people are going to think this is going to make them into stock picking gurus because the AI is just like, you know, a machine God.
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But I'll give you an example. When people ask me about like what are my favorite stocks? I say I don't spend all my time thinking about investing in stocks. So therefore like there are people out there that are much smarter than me on this. And, and I can maybe give you some insight on the data center space, what companies I think could do well, supply chain, things like that. But in general there are people and there are multibillion dollar infrastructure data centers that support different types of trading and different types of infrastructure. And so I think you're exactly right because when they're trending and sending a bull market, everyone thinks that they're a guru. When things turn, I mean that's really where you see like who actually is a strong investor versus not in again a one year kind of downturn. Like if the whole market sound, it is what it is, but it's how you perform over a longer period of time.
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Right. And I'm sure when people ask you what your favorite stock Is you gotta say hut. And it's almost kind of a funny
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question up on the day, up on the year. So I'm talking to Asher.
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Yeah, I'm all in on hut here. Like I don't need, I'm not thinking about other stocks other than my own. So we'll go ahead and start talking about some of the. The announcement that y' all had earlier this month. It was really, it's nice to see. It seems like the deal flow is picking back up. There's kind of a lull in Q1 and now it's like we're right back to some of these deals. We're right back to the financing agreements. So can you give us a rundown of this Beacon Point deal and you know, Yalls kind of what led to it, what Yalls plans are for this site, all that stuff just to give our listeners a rundown for those who might have forgotten or don't know.
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Our first deal we announced in December was a $7 billion deal in Louisiana. And that was with Anthropic and Google as support, with Food Stack as well. The second deal we announced was in Texas and That was a $9.8 billion deal. And so it was larger, almost by 50% than the initial deal. It's a high grade investment counterparty. We didn't share the name of who, and I can kind of share why we are going through that on that strategy going forward. But it's phase one of a gigawatt campus and it's really exciting because it's actually one of the most dense data center buildings in the world. When it comes online, we have 500 megawatts of capacity in a single building. And so we work closely with Nvidia. They actually wanted us to share that they were a design partner on the campus because of how exciting and innovative it was. But we're really exciting. That brings our total capacity of it megawatts, almost a 600 megawatts. It brings our total contractor revenue almost to $17 billion. And that's really over the course of the last six months from December till now.
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So I had to quick side note here. When I was going through prep for this, you know, we were Talking about Core 42 doing a half bill financing and they're trying to build in Europe. And so that got me thinking, okay, well let's get projections for Europe versus us for data center build out. And when you look at the projections for the US what is still kind of awe inspiring to me is you have all of these bitcoin Miners that are going to make up a significant chunk of that when they're making these, these transitions. So you're just talking about the density of this data center. One gigawatt. Sometimes the numbers stop making sense to us in the sense that we just kind of become numb to it. But that's just absolutely freaking massive. And to go back, so to go back to the.
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Just to put into perspective like those two deals we announced without like a future expansion on Beacon Point or anything, because we have like a 3% escalator. So across the 15 years it's about $1.1 billion a year in cash flow. And these are triple net leases where there's no real cost to operating them. So that's like all net operating income is like 99%. And so like it's really powerful and to your point, like these are massive projects with massive numbers. And we think this is like a generational opportunity to go build like an infrastructure business. What I'm really excited for is we're not building a data center company. Like we didn't pivot from crypto to AI. Like we still have 700 megawatts through American bitcoin that we manage. And so like in my mind, Hut 8 is the business that rethinks and builds infrastructure at scale, that supports next generation technologies. And AI is obviously the largest consumer and user, but over time there will be other consumptions. And if you look at like the history of humankind, our quality of life, our GDP has increased as our energy consumption has gone up. And so how do we build physical infrastructure at that intersection of power and technology? And like that's what I'm super excited for.
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B
So going back to the tenant for this one, I mean the press release said there of hyperscale tier. There was an undisclosed. What's the reason for that? Just confidentiality. They requested it because that's I think the first one that we've seen where tenant has not been disclosed.
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So yeah, so when we announced our deal in December, I think a couple of things came up when we announced it. One was we were like, holy shit, that was a great deal. We thought it was like a market deal because a lot of the deals that transact are actually in the private markets and on the public markets. Right. The public markets are more kind of the old crypto companies and so forth. But most of the deals happen in the private market. So we thought it was like, hey, this is actually a pretty fair deal with like institutional blue chip platforms that are data center developers. But I felt like we added unnecessary like, like eyeballs to our tenant because everyone went and was like, oh, we like the Hut 8 deal, we want the Huttig deal and so forth. And we said our goal is to go get more and more sites done. And I don't want to add like unnecessary kind of friction to our tenants if not necessary. Right, I see.
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B
Because that does kind of paint not a target on them, but it does create a maybe competitive disadvantage when they're trying to sign other deals and they say, well, hey, this deal, why can't we get these terms?
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A
Exactly, that's right. And so I spoke to kind of the tenants at Riverbed. I'm like, hey, I have this idea, what do you think? And I spoke to some of our key larger shareholders and said, look, you care about who's the credit, who commits to this contract because that determines your confidence level that they will pay the bill over the 15 years and if they'll renew. So if we tell you the credit is that good enough, where like there's only a select handful of people in the world that have that credit in that profile. And so you have a general sense of who it is and they're like, yeah, that makes a ton of sense, like tell us that we can underwrite it and then just go get more deals done. And so I think it's optimizing towards. Our first deal was can we do this and can we build a data center platform? And then a lot of people said, well, was this like a one time kind of striking luck or can you do it again? And a lot of people like were saying, oh HUD, can't do it again. Like this was a one time thing, et cetera. And then our second deal was, was the same but bigger and I would argue better. And so like same structure, same economics, but a bigger site. And so I think we've shown that repeatability and as we grow now, it's like we've already, I think shown the market what we can do and now all we have to focus on is scaling and growing. And so then I think we can be a little bit less kind of forward, lean on disclosing every single thing. We want to do that to kind of show credibility with our shareholders and what we can do. And like we did that not because like, oh, I think we're going to get a higher valuation or we're going to go in like shareholders are going to love for that or we're going to get an investment grade credit rating on construction phase, which allowed us to do like we did also like a kind of first time type of financing which I can go into later if you want. But we did it because the question I ask is I see the data center business as an ability to build our foundation of the company with like reliable and strong cash flows. And I am a deep believer that AI we're only at the early innings and will only continue to grow. But running a large scale infrastructure business where we're deploying billions of dollars of capital, I have to prepare for what if like demand stops, what if demand pauses and where are we and what does that happen to our commitments, the obligations we make and so forth. Like the reliability of those contracts. Those cash flows are critically important. Right. Because I wanted to compound and grow as a business and I care less about like where we're going to be in like six months a year. I care more about like where we're going to be in 10 years. Right. And so like how do we make sure like we do the right things for that? And I think as a result we got a really strong deal. We got one that was financed really well and like we were the only company that was able to do a 16 and a half year financing instead of a five year financing because we got an investment grade credit rating.
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B
So that finance you're talking about specifically for Beacon Point or for Louisiana site
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that was for Riverbend and that was like the first one for Riverbend. And now obviously we're looking at similar for Beacon Point because it did really well.
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Yeah. So I wanted to touch on that. You know you talk about planning for the future. The financing for Riverbend had this backstop from Google. You know, it's got to be so sweet. As a company that used to mine Bitcoin, pure play and financing was impossible to get on terms that were at all favorable. And I'm curious, as you look towards the project level financing for Beacon Point, how does the quality of the contract or having a hyperscale tier tenant, what does that do in terms of obviously increasing your credit profile, but in terms of opening the doors to other access of financing that you all didn't have in the past, what options are available to you that did not exist five years ago?
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A
See credit of the tenant, which is critically important, but during construction phase it's actually the stability of the execution program. Because there have been other Google Financial supported data center deals but they weren't investment grade from S and P and Fitch Day 1 during construction usually what happens is your sub investment grade, you raise in the high Yield markets. Then when the data center comes online, then you become investment grade because the construction risk is gone. For us, we got an investment grade 2 during construction phase, which is why it allowed us to go to the investment grade markets day one instead of during a refinancing in a couple of years when this data center stabilized. And that came straight from the quality of how we think about execution. The partners that we have with Jacobs inverted how we thought about the commercial contract. So that's what led to the day one. And then post commercialization we think we're going to have an upgrade to even have a higher grade of investment credit rating. And so the tenant is important, but the execution is equally as important for this structure. And what that unlocked for us was we think there's going to be a lot of financing because most of this financing is short term, like two to five year financing, which is essentially construction financing. And you have to go and you have to refi the project. And so you're going to have like 100 billion plus dollars of capital trying to get refinanced in that period of time. And so we said if we can just finance this for 16 and a half years, pay down the whole thing through our cash flows of the data center, not rely on any future financings, we completely take away refinancing risk and we stabilized the project. And we were only able to do that because we got an investment grade rating day one during construction phase because of how much we de risked the project. And what was exciting to your point, like five years ago, when we first started the business, we were growing the idea of raising $3.25 billion on a 16 and a half year financing with some of the most renowned institutional investors in the world. We had over $10 billion of demand with the largest institution in the world. I mean, it was like a dream come true. You know, it's like as a founder, as an entrepreneur, like these are the things that you take a pause, that you pinch yourself and you're like, is this real? And I think it goes to show like the team works really, really hard and we want to build a great business. And this is like a validation of the work that we spend, like is getting recognized. Because we didn't like try to go get investment grade trading. We just tried to get like a deal that we were comfortable with, that we like really minimize execution. And then when we're going through the rating agencies, we're like, hey, we think you can be investment grade. We're like, wait, what? Like no data center has really been investment grade during the construction phase and it kind of unlocked this whole series of opportunities.
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C
So you guys, a lot of data center companies are really cooking, executing well right now. But against this backdrop we have a rising pushback I see at the rural grassroots and national level against data centers. I'm in a very red state and by rural podunk buddies are hating on data centers. Never anticipated this. What do you think Hut 8 and other data center operators can do to address this and what do you think is behind this rising outcry?
- [26:12]
A
So much of what's driving this is fears that are not true, right? The biggest fears around data centers today are water consumption, rising energy pricing, aesthetics, noise, and then like general AI jobs. And if you go through those water, I think all data centers today, and if not like they are, are going to soon, are a closed loop system. You're no longer using water to cool down the chips. And historically I don't think people did that because it's more expensive upfront to invest into. And the POE is not as great. But like in a world where water matters, you invest in that up front. And so it's interesting, in our Riverbend project we're using a closed loop system. And in addition to that we donated a $16 billion water infrastructure upgrade program. And if you think about what the data center uses, we use water for sinks, toilets and the showers on emergency use cases. That's it. It's less than a traditional office building. And so the actual data center servers don't use water fusing closed loop system. Those are already like, those are fluids that you come and you ship in when you kind of commission the project up front. The second is in terms of energy, if you think about building a data center today, data centers are asked to pay for all the upfront capex and upgrading all the infrastructure, transmission lines, electrical systems to allow to support that energy. So you're actually investing into a better grid for everyone else to use. And then the second is like the energy supply that you consume, you, you're having to commit to that. So if the utility goes and procures that power, you're committing to it on the other side, which is why the credit of the counterparty and the tenant matters so much. But in a lot of these energy utilities that I'm talking to, they're trying to change the narrative too because they actually think power prices are coming down from data centers because they're helping subsidize additional net new build and more utilization. So I think that like you have one off, probably small utilities that, like, brought in. Someone didn't do this early on, and then, like, that creates it, but, like, that's not a real thing. The third is aesthetics. That's one thing we're focused on, is let's spend an extra 10, 15 million bucks and make this thing look beautiful. Right? I've told our team, like, I want these things to look like museums when you drive by, not at, like, warehouses. Like, let's make them, like, beautiful things that people are proud of in terms of, like, infrastructure assets. And then we make a big impact. Like, it really does make impact in the rural areas that we go and build. Like, the taxable revenues are real. They make an impact on the schools, they make the impact on the communities. Like, those are real things. And. And so I think, like, why do we see all of this? One is when I tell people those things, they're like, oh, really? Like, there's so much fun out there. And then I don't think the data center, the AI ecosystem has done a good job because historically everyone kind of just builds quietly. They're not really proactive out there. And, like, the narrative has kind of taken its own form. Right? And I think that's something that needs to be solved. And the other element is like, I feel like this is a very easy thing to be politicized with. And like, we had a data center we were working on and we had people who came and protested from three states over in like, a local, like, county. What do you have to even do with this county? And they're going, like, spewing all this FUD with everyone that that's there. And so I think, like, I was talking to one of the large kind of AI companies and we were like, jamming on ideas. Like, you know, the day that, like, AI goes and solves cancer, people will see, like, the impact of what this is, like, possible of right now. It's like going and trying to build company processes and systems and this and that. But there's so much like, good that can come from it. And so I think, in general, I think about it as we need to allow more building of infrastructure for a couple of reasons in the U.S. number one, latency is becoming less of an issue. And so as a result, you can really place data centers anywhere in the US but also anywhere internationally. And so if it becomes really hard to build in the us people are just going to buy compute internationally. And then you're driving the hundreds of billions of dollars of investment overseas, which is not something I think we want as a country, I think these jobs and going and building this infrastructure. We have this revitalization of investments of infrastructure into the US And I think we want to retain that. The second element, this is more of a macro thing. The US needs to continue to be at the leading frontier of AI. And as you all know, building the frontier technologies requires the computer. And we don't want a scenario where we're bottlenecked and we don't have enough compute. And China's building generation and China's building infrastructure faster than us and we say, shoot, we have the smartest people in the world and we can't do it because we just don't have the compute infrastructure. I was with someone at Erica, very senior person there, and we were talking about this kind of dynamic. China's brought on as much energy infrastructure as a whole US grid just in the last four years to think about development and build. And so I think I, I'm a deep believer that like, we need to come together as a country. We need to like, clear up all the FUD that exists and like give people the truth. And like there are closed loop and open systems in terms of cooling. Like, let's just get everyone to do close loops, let's invest more money and let's solve the water issue. Like there's things that are already being done that we can educate folks on. And, and like this is, this is not like self serving. This is more of a, this investment, I feel like is so good for the country, so good for the communities that it impacts and for any kind of folks that need to learn more, for any bad actors. You have everyone and their mother trying to build data centers today as well, which creates a lot of noise and stuff in the system as well. And so I think some of the things that utilities are doing, which is increasing the pauses for people to develop data centers, I think those are good because it pushes the bigger developers who I think have a more mature foundation and who care about like building a reputation and doing the right thing. Go and build a lot of this infrastructure.
- [31:51]
C
Asher, I think you're the first person I've ever heard use the term data center aesthetics. So I'm excited.
- [31:57]
B
Yeah, I like that.
- [31:58]
A
Yeah.
- [31:59]
B
For anyone who wants to go check out some of their mockups for, I believe it's the Beacon Point, maybe it's the Riverbend campus, but
- [32:07]
A
I'm trying to make it look better than that.
- [32:09]
B
Yeah, I mean, well, you know, I will say this much. It, it looks a lot better than some of the other mock ups I've seen or actual data centers.
- [32:15]
C
And I've been to some ugly data centers. So. Yeah.
- [32:19]
B
Last thing before we get you off here, Asher. It's got to be really frustrating to have come from bitcoin mining, where you got screamed at for boiling the oceans and thinking, well, now we're an infrastructure and energy company that's providing one of the most useful, if not the most useful technology in the world. And people still aren't happy. You know, at the end of the day, you're not going to be able to please everyone, but.
- [32:38]
C
But you're used to it by now. We've been through this rodeo a few times.
- [32:42]
A
I think it's important to deeply understand what the concerns are and, like, have your own, like, perspective of, like, are they real? Are they not? And I think, like, data center aesthetics was a real thing. Water could have been a real thing. And I think as long as, like, we do the right thing and like, we believe in what we're doing and we believe it's the right element. To your point, like, there will be people who love us, there will be people who hate us, but if we actually solve the problems people care about, like, that's how we solve this in the long term. Right. Like, I believe actions are a lot more powerful than words. And. And so, like, why don't we just
- [33:13]
B
like, walk the talk 100%. Well, Asher, thank you so much for joining, man. Appreciate your time as always. Best of luck for the rest of the year for you all.
- [33:21]
A
Thanks for having me, guys. See you later.
- [33:22]
C
Thank you, Asher.
- [33:25]
B
So just a quick riff on that
- [33:27]
C
before we go to the data center aesthetics.
- [33:31]
B
You know, I just keep coming back to this meme because bitcoin miners really have been on the forefront of this for a long time.
- [33:38]
A
Yeah.
- [33:39]
B
So it's like all these data center companies which, like, to Asher's point earlier, this was not something that they ever felt like they had to do community outreach for, because, number one, it just wasn't in the news cycle as much. It's not as exciting. You know, traditional data centers, Cloud data center is very boring. You know, there's no dazzling application that you can point to to say, this is what this does. It's like, oh, I can actually, I can stream, I can, I can pull up my email.
- [34:01]
A
So.
- [34:01]
B
But they never really had to do community outreach, which is ironic because per Asher's point, as I understand it, a lot of the traditional data centers are not closed loops. For the ones that are water cooled, like, they actually Most of them are, or a lot of them are actually using water that is a open loop system. So those are actually theoretically worse for the water situation. But bitcoin miners have been fighting this for a long time. And so I actually think that in some ways these bitcoin miners who are now AI services companies are kind of more well positioned maybe to at least take on the criticism. Maybe they have a thicker skin.
- [34:38]
C
But yeah. So we have here, we have a comment here from. Yeehaw. Bitcoin on YouTube Quote the Hut 8 Vegas site is absolutely the most aesthetically pleasing data center bitcoin mining facility I've ever seen. So I, Colin, I think, I think we should start. We should do a data, a bitcoin mining data center. AI data center.
- [35:01]
B
Aesthetic tier list, sexiest data center. That's a good, that is a good tier list. And not to, not to glaze them too much, but does this mean that Hut 8's becoming the apple of data center? Yeah.
- [35:10]
C
The apple of data center.
- [35:11]
B
It's all about the image. It's all about the brand, baby.
- [35:15]
C
Yeah.
- [35:15]
B
All right, we'll, we'll leave that there.
- [35:18]
C
All right, we're gonna keep going. We have Iron News. We have Core 42. We have some fun Morrow pulpit at the end of this. But before that we have a word from our sponsor, CleanSpark.
- [35:30]
B
We are CleanSpark, America's Bitcoin miner. A publicly traded company with the largest
- [35:37]
A
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- [35:47]
B
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- [35:49]
A
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- [35:55]
B
and bitcoin@cleanspark.com all right, Iron is back in the news. And by back in the news, they never really left. They're in the news every week. It seems Iron just signed a $1.6 billion Dell Blackwell deal for Childress which has raised its targeted ARR to 4.4 billion. That's billion with a B, ladies and gentlemen. We have left the millions behind with all of the S19J Pro Series Asics. So few notes on this. This hardware is not for their Microsoft deal. They, they have a separate deal with Dell for that rollout. This will support their deal with Nvidia 5 year 3.4 billion dollar deal for 60 megawatts at Childress. Iron said is it? It is advancing GPU financing in connection with the agreement. I'd love to have a segment on exactly the ins and outs of GPU financing. Obviously a much different game than ASIC financing. So I'M not going to draw any parallels to it, but typically hardware financing has not worked out well for bitcoin miners in the past. But different era, totally different terms I would imagine. Like I said, the, the ARR will, Iron's ARR will rise from 3.7 billion to 4.4 billion as a result of this. According to their own estimates, commissioning is targeted for early 2027. That's pretty close. That's right around the corner, man. And like I said, this is for the Nvidia rollout. They also have their 9.7 billion five year deal with Microsoft for 200 megawatts of IT load. So markets like this, Iron jumped on the news. Obviously you like to see having the picks and shovels in place before you start digging for the gold. What are your thoughts here Charlie? I mean, pretty standard.
- [37:44]
C
Yeah, pretty standard. I always try to come up with some color because I'm not like the money or the finance guy. That's more you and other folks. I think a little detail about this is that this is a deal for air cooled Blackwells. And as I research GPUs more and more these days, the typical configuration that these black holes ship in is like a, like a water cooled rack system. And I think it's notable because these air cooled ones are a little bit easier to fit into like the existing I think IRON data center structure. So kind of notable there. That's really the only kind of color
- [38:24]
B
commentator commentator that's, that's kind of leads into my, my color for this one as well. Wondering that obviously probably helps them on the capex for these builds, right? Because as a reminder, IRON is going full on vertically integrated NEO cloud. Unlike other bitcoin miners that are building powered shells where they're going to have a tenant come in and fill that space. They're just going to manage the data center and power. Iron's doing it all. And that's part of the reason why IRON has been the largest gainer or one of the largest gainers in the AI race among bitcoin miners because there's more of a share of revenue. If you're going to do that, obviously you're not leasing out to a tenant, you're leasing out the computer to a company like Microsoft or Nvidia. Right. But with that comes a massive capex burden. So this is from our megawatt report that we released last week, maybe two weeks ago. this point the weeks blend together and this is a bitcoin mine down here. This is in thousands dollars, thousands. So this is per megawatt build on the low end and bitcoin mine is like 300k. This is probably gone. This is, these are, some of these are outdated figures.
- [39:30]
C
Probably higher now but like a year ago, probably higher now, but was a good like efficient like build out, chicken shack build. Yeah.
- [39:39]
B
You know, and then mid would be $600, 600,000amegawatt high would be a million dollars per megawatt. Now we're getting into big boy numbers. If you're building a powered shell, you're looking at anywhere from 8 to 16 million per megawatt. If you're just buying GPUs, you're looking at 25 to 32.5 million per megawatt. And if you are doing it all 35 to almost $55,000 per megawatt. So just a massive capex burden. Right. And hence why, you know, hence why the dollar figures are so big on these deals. But also why financing obviously is going to be instrumental here for iron. They also have a decent cash position, although that's not going to cover all of it. And going back to what I was saying earlier, I won't share this part of the report, but we do EV multiples per megawatt for some of these deals. And if you look at iron's EV per megawatt capacity projecting out into the future when all of these are built, because all these companies are being valued on future cash flows, Iron's EV to megawatt for future capacity as of May 12 was they had multiple, they had a ratio of 80 and that is by far and away much larger than any of their peers who are just doing the powered shell approach. So obviously the market is rewarding this kind of risk very highly. And I say risk because like there is more risk and trying to do it all. But also with more risk, as I write in the report, comes more reward. So you know, there's a reason the market's been loving IRON recently and they kind of just keep charging along. So I don't really have anything else to add.
- [41:20]
C
No, let's keep rolling on. We're going to go to Core 42 News and then Mara. But before that, a word from our sponsor, Luxor.
- [41:36]
B
This episode is brought to you by Luxor's Commander Bitcoin miner management software for enterprise operation. Commander gives you real time fleet monitoring, bulk remote commands across your fleet. And intelligent miner, that's an automated profitability engine that runs every five minutes against live hash, rate and energy markets. ERCOT backtests show a 10% improved profitability with intelligent mining versus binary mining. Commander Pro is roughly $100 per megawatt, or a 25 basis point pool fee adder, which is roughly half the price of competitors. But you can try it for free for 60 days. So if you're interested, go to Luxor Tech Forward slash Commander to learn more. All right, core 42 company that we only really cover when we have news with them with regards to Terra Wolf, but getting them on the show today because they have secured 550 million from HSBC for US and European AI infrastructure buildout. The European part is part of why I wanted to cover this, because that's obviously not a market we tap into very much. The data center market in Europe is much smaller. They just don't produce as much energy. And ironically, the largest data center market in continental Europe is Germany. And I wonder how tenable that's going to be because Germany decommissioned like all of its nuclear, and now it's relying on coal and nat gas to fill in the gaps. In fact, its manufacturing base is really hurting from that. They've been in a recession on the manufacturing side of things for a year or two at least. And so you have to wonder what the downstream effects will be for their dominance in the data center realm. But that's a sidebar to get back to Core 42, some details from this news. 550 million, like we said there will be. It will come in two tranches. 240 million completed in February 2026 and 310 million completed in May 2026. Core 42 said the facilities will support deployments for enterprise, government and hyperscale customers. Now, this company is headquartered in the UAE and it's been expanding on both sides of the Atlantic. Its European headquarters are in Dublin, but it has data center deployments underway in Italy and France. And it also obviously has this 70 megawatt critical or 70 megawatt gross it. 60 megawatt critical it with Terra Wolf at its Lake Mariner facility that that started booting up, I believe at the last year. Okay, so Charlie, when I was looking at this, I had to run the numbers on Europe versus the US for data center capacity. Caveat here. There's not like any one true source for this. There's no single source of truth. A lot of these estimates come from investment banks, from other think tanks, things like that. And most of the figures that I could get were only for like 2024, 2025. So take that with a grain of salt. But I think this does give you us a Rough idea of, of the ratio. It's like basically for every 10 data centers we have in the U.S. or very 10 megawatts of data centers we have in the US Europe has like 1 megawatt. So the primary markets in Europe are Frankfurt, London, Amsterdam, Paris and Dublin. Newmark estimates these five dentist centers. These five markets have 4.6 gigawatts of live capacity, which is roughly 40% of all of Europe's installed capacity. At the beginning of 2025, for 2024 figures from Deloitte, the US had roughly 30 gigawatts, just give or take of data center load, of which roughly 4 gigawatts was AI specific. Now that's 2024. That's very early days for the AI stuff, right? Like that number is no doubt increased today, but that just kind of gives you an idea in terms of growth. Bloom Energy projects US data center capacity to nearly double from 80 gigawatts in 2025 to 150 by 2028. Looking over across the Atlantic at Europe, McKinsey expects Europe to grow from 10 gigawatts in 2024 to 35 in 2030. So the European market's obviously going to expand. I think the opportunities are going to be fewer and farther between, I would imagine France is going to my. You know, I guess the one prophecy I would throw out here is that France, I would be shocked if they didn't end up becoming the largest data center provider in Europe because they are almost all nuclear now. They may support a lot of that. So this is part of the problem actually with, you know, the, the EU's loosely confederated system is, you know, I mean, they could sell it without the eu, but you're only as strong in some ways as your neighbors. And France is probably going to sell a lot of that energy. It already is. It's, it's the largest exporter of energy in Europe. So that might throw a wrench into things, but there are some attractive jurisdictions like France for this, these data center buildouts in Europe, but still well behind the us.
- [46:27]
C
I mean, if you are this AI machine God, AI and data centers are the single most important commodity as the world moves away from oil to compute. Then think about the implications for these loose confederations of the eu, where Germany is the manufacturing and finance powerhouse of the eu. England used to be capital and some foreign direct investment. But if France is the, is the power generation, they're going to want to own that more directly. So this could put a strain on some of the pretty kind of uneven Distribution of some of these assets across the EU as.
- [47:13]
B
Yeah, I would also be curious the kind of intangibles of doing business over there. I mean we can look at megawatts.
- [47:23]
C
If you're in France, you say in time with a bunch of extra EU's,
- [47:30]
B
no one builds there anymore. But seriously, I mean you do have to wonder. You, you look at these bubble charts of like billion dollar companies in the US versus Europe and it's like comparing, you know, a freaking yoga ball to a gumball when you look at these things. I mean it's like the, the size in the US is, is massive for, for these multi billion billion dollar companies, multinationals, things like that. Whereas in, in Europe they just, they're so choked by bureaucracy and red tape that it's hard to get anything done. And I do wonder if some of these projections are maybe not taking that into account or if Europe will have a sea change in opinion and start building things again. I'm not really holding my breath on that though. So I'm, I'm really curious to see how that race package pans out. I mean if you think anti data center stuff here is bad, I would
- [48:21]
C
imagine, oh my gosh, can you imagine European anti data center?
- [48:25]
B
Yeah, like someone does a Eurovision song about, you know, the American or like the, the Europeans fighting a gallant war against the AI overlords or something like that. But seriously, I do like the difference, I think mostly between Europe and the EU in terms of actionability or actionability is not a freaking word in terms of actually being able to execute on those fears is Europe actually does have a history of a much stronger bureaucracy. They do hamstring things and they seem to be able to wield more power over what can and can't be done. For all of its faults in the US with a federal system, if you don't like the federal law, you can go to a state and then you can build there. And if the state has laws carved out for you, you can challenge laws that you feel like are draconian in the Supreme Court. I do wonder between the EU's regulations and all of these companies respective regulations, how much wiggle room do they actually have to build these things?
- [49:26]
C
And going back to the data center aesthetics problem, not go lie. As a guy who loves to occasionally go to Europe and travel, it's, it's a more beautiful country than more beautiful countryside. Look, if a big metal Walmart looking data center goes next to a loves, nobody really cares. If you go next to a French villa, that's Been there for hundreds and hundreds of years. I do think that, you know, the, there's a problem there. Yeah.
- [49:57]
B
Or like a half a gigawatt data center right outside of Rotenburg, which is like basically a still medieval intact city in Germany.
- [50:03]
C
Yeah, yeah. It's a data center right outside sand or you know, something like that.
- [50:08]
B
They're just going to have to build them like cathedrals. Right. Yeah, just that's, that's the way we get around this. I actually think, Asher, you know, like it seems kind of, it seems like kind of a fluff comment, but I think that there's.
- [50:20]
A
But it does. Yeah.
- [50:21]
B
Yeah.
- [50:22]
C
The aesthetic is the, the aesthetic is the, is the, the true real ethos.
- [50:27]
B
The question is how much wiggle room do you have to make a box in the middle of a desert look pretty? I'm thinking of like the Utah Data Center.
- [50:34]
C
I don't know, you know.
- [50:37]
B
Well, we'll leave that there. Keeping an eye on Core 42 and also just really curious to see about the European market. And also curious to see if I end up being proven right about France taking the market share from Germany.
- [50:50]
C
We'll have to cover that on this podcast. We got one more story on Mara and armored cars. But before that, a word from our sponsor. Lygos.
- [51:04]
B
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- [51:54]
C
Okay. Can I drive this one?
- [51:57]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [51:58]
A
Okay.
- [51:58]
B
So drive that. Drive that Mad Max car, baby.
- [52:01]
C
Yeah. So I'm going to drive this figuratively. The headline from the Financial Times is, a Bitcoin miner spent $860,000 armoring vehicles for its bosses. A fact for which we have very little context. So. Okay.
- [52:19]
B
Sorry, I didn't hear you driving. I got to like.
- [52:21]
C
Okay, go Go, go.
- [52:22]
B
Very little context because you're not paying attention. Yeah, people get kidnapped for their cryptocurrency.
- [52:28]
A
You're getting it.
- [52:29]
C
You're getting ahead of it.
- [52:30]
A
Call. Let me give the story.
- [52:31]
B
Okay, I just hate.
- [52:33]
C
Here's a story from Financial Times, one of our favorite publications which serious coastal elites love. But crypto bitcoin people know that they're just kind of shooting from the hip. So to counteract such dangers, as Colin described, of crypto folks being targeted, one bodyguarding firm boss was happy to tell by the Financial Times that crypto firms are enlisting bodyguards. For example, crypto exchange Coinbase paid its chief executive Brian Armstrong $7.6 million for personal security related compensation representing home security, family protection, secure transportation arrangements. The notable one that kind of gets in our neck of the woods is from the latest DEF14A compensation tables for Mara Holdings. Mara Holdings CEO Fred Thiel, pursuant to Mara's security program with a budget of $4.3 million, included a one time expense for vehicle armoring of $430,000, a one time expense for home security installation of $58,000, an incremental cost to the company associated with Fred Thiel's personal use of company aircraft of $43,000 and a company contribution under the 401K, $10,000. Additionally, the CFO, Mr. Khan, pursuant to Mars Security Program of $3.946 million included a one time expense for vehicle armoring of 438K. So this is $839,000 across. The CEO and CFO of Marathon Mara Digital Holding, Mara Digital holdings for their executives to get armored cars.
- [54:21]
B
And to be clear, the 4.3 billion is for Fred alone in 2025. Yeah, that covers Fred. And then Khan has 3.95 billion or million. Google 3.95 million. So together you're looking at over $8 million for executive protection. Yeah, and I think that seems crazy to a lot of people, but it sounds crazy.
- [54:45]
C
Like, and this seems like if you're reading this as a normal person, you're like, oh my God, they're so caught up in themselves, they're blowing company resources. This is ridiculous. You and I, Colin, I read this and I'm like, yeah, that makes total sense, right?
- [55:01]
B
Because we've covered when we used to do Bitcoin Season 2, we covered Jameson Lopp had research on how many wrench attacks happened in 2025. And a wrench attack, for those who don't know, it's like the joke is, yeah, not your keys, not your coins. But somebody can get your keys out of you with a $5 wrench, basically. Kidnapping, extortion, torture, things like that. And just to underscore this point, Mara, now this is irrespective of the fact that they probably have multisig or it's custodied somewhere or whatever. Attackers don't necessarily know that Merrill holds 38000 Bitcoin. 38 000.
- [55:41]
C
I think they might hold 35000 Bitcoin.
- [55:43]
B
But anyway, 35 now,
- [55:47]
C
okay, it's a lot.
- [55:50]
A
It's over 30,
- [55:55]
B
Roughly $2 billion worth of Bitcoin. So obviously they're going to do this. And just to point out what Charlie was saying there too, this isn't uncommon. You know, we talked about Brian Armstrong getting 7.6 million for protective services. The Winklevoss twins did the same. In 2025 they spent $5 million, so about 2.5 million per twin. Now in 2026 agreement they're spending 400k a month. Although there's a waiver there where if the services exceed 1 million then the fees get waived for the first year. So I imagine this is a multi year contract. But I'm sure that if we went through the public filings of strategy of strive of a lot of these other bitcoin miners that still have bitcoin, you'd probably see something similar. They may not break it out, it may be couched in other language or lumped into something else like general corporate expenses. But I can assure you that it's there for a lot of these companies.
- [56:57]
C
And if it's not, honestly me as a shareholder, I would like want it to be there because of the exposure that these people have. Because you have normal individuals getting kidnapped. You have it now in the United States. You have multiple scenarios on the West Coast. I mean wasn't doordash is being compromised. Look at the ledger CEO. I was about to say, yeah, former ledger CEO in France was kidnapped, finger cut off. So if you consider about like potential, even if you just consider this as a potential disruption and bad like press for a company, what's a few million dollars when you have a market cap of several billion and like.
- [57:40]
B
Right, you know, that's a great point. I mean these numbers are big to normal people, but this is a drop in the bucket for these companies. I also had to say I was laughing early or not because I think it's funny that he got his finger cut off. I think that's horrendous. But I was just thinking of the big Lebowski imagining the Ledger shareholders being like, how we know that's. How do we know that's his finger? Yeah, I can get you a finger. Get your finger later today.
- [58:03]
C
Yeah.
- [58:05]
B
Well, one last thing to note on this. Just to remind everyone that the Financial Time is a gossip rag. It's not a serious financial publication. At the bottom of this article, the journalist editorializes. She says here, quote, we had further questions that the spokesperson declined to answer. Chiefly, what kind of vehicles were being armored. If they're just regular cars, wouldn't have been better to just go whole hog. We say linking to commercially available tanks for the second time in a month. That's just. I get that they're having fun here, but, like, that just completely infantilizes this whole discussion. And, and it's like, obviously they think this is absurd on the face. So if it's absurd, then why don't you get a tank? Because you can't drive a tank down the interstate. Guys, if they are helicopters, who exactly has been threatening Mara? They're not helicopters. Their cars. They say vehicle.
- [59:00]
C
If you think maybe they should get helicopters. I don't know. I don't know what kind of. I don't know what the. I don't know. The threat profile, you know?
- [59:06]
B
Yeah, apparently they think, are they threatened by paramilitaries? And probably one. If it's boats, then why not just have boats? Okay, like, yeah, let me just take my, you know, my, my freaking speedboat out to the data center in the middle of Texas, see how that goes. Secondly, how can this be determined as a one time expense? I also, this one is, it sends me. It's like, what if Theo and Khan fancy a newer model of redacted vehicle? What if, God forbid, redacted vehicles, newfangled defense capabilities were tested to destruction, would replacing them then seem extravagant? If they do it again, they're going to disclose it again and then you'll write another hit piece about it. Yeah, this kind of weird, you know, journalistic, you know, like they, they act like they're dancing on a grave here, but really it just comes off as like the most unserious commentary about something that actually, as Mera points out, like, the board approved this. They don't think it's crazy. And as you said, Charlie, as a shareholder of these companies, you might actually want to see this because then you know that they're. The bitcoin that a lot of these companies are sitting on is. Is not going to be, hopefully not subject to any sort of extortion.
- [60:17]
C
So, yeah, I mean, look, if you want to know that, if you want to get proper framing for this, the. The article shows as the like header image a one of the Mad Max spiky armored cars just to appropriately, you know, bias you the reader towards their point of view.
- [60:39]
B
Also, Lewis Ashworth is a man, it's not a woman. So I apologize for misgendering the author, but still do a little better, Louis. Come on.
- [60:51]
C
Yeah, so shout out to the Financial Times you can find their writing also available without the paywall on Archive is. Archive is. Okay, that. That is our. That's our stream for the day. You can catch us here on Friday. Again, we've got some great guests next Friday. We're talking both to Luxor and Udi Wertimer.
- [61:26]
B
So get the tomatoes ready, everybody.
- [61:28]
C
Tomatoes. But yeah.
- [61:31]
B
All right.
- [61:32]
C
Well, thank you so much for watching Block Space live. Make sure to like and subscrib. Subscribe. You're on Coin desk once again. Immediately go to the Block Space channel on whatever platform you're listening to and sub to that one to remain to. To have continuity. Otherwise, see you all on.